Military Review

White revenge or an attempt at reconciliation? Evil Ivan №30 with Ivan Victory

123



Hello to all ours and not to ours! I am Ivan Victory and I am angry again today!

In St. Petersburg, a memorial plaque was installed on the building of the Military Engineering Technical University with the name of General of the Russian Army, and later - Marshal and President of Finland Karl Mannerheim. Vladimir Medinsky and Sergey Ivanov were among the officials in this event. They justified this action in unison, stating that it was not at all the rehabilitation of fascism. "Nine! This is a tribute to the memory of the Russian officer."

Let me remind you that Karl Mannerheim served in the royal army and served in it to the general. Well done! And then he fought against the Red Army during the Russian-Finnish war. Well, the culmination was the war against the Soviet Union. Finland was an ally of Nazi Germany during the Second World War. And the Finnish troops under the command of the same Mannerheim staged a blockade of Leningrad. And he also had concentration camps where Russians were killed. That such a many-sided person was this Karl.

But continuing the logic of the event, the next will be a monument to Vlasov. After all, he, too, was promoted to general in the Soviet Army. And then he became a traitor. And he fought against Russia and its people on the side of the fascists. What is his biography is fundamentally different from the biography of Mannerheim? Well, and then you can zababahat the monument to Hitler, since such a booze has gone.

Yes, I, of course, exaggerate a little. But what am I leading to? To a simple thought that the current authorities often forget about. A perfect betrayal or crime negates any past merits. You can not rehabilitate enemies and traitors. You can talk about them in textbooks storiesin encyclopedias. And even open plaques ... but only on their graves.

You can understand the purpose of the current movement with the rehabilitation of the White Guard officers. And this goal can even be justified. The aspirations are quite noble and pragmatic - this is an attempt to overcome the ideological split among the people, to pacify the red and white. But the government must see the framework beyond which it is impossible to leave.

And yet, I had a persistent suspicion that the lobby of the balkhrusts had already crammed some of the officials with stories about the charms of Russia, which we lost. About the county estates, about personal stables, about balls and indispensable serfs, which could be sold and bought by entire villages and villages. And some officials, having dreamed of princely and earl titles, rushed with excessive zeal to promote the ideas of monarchism, whiteguardry and other mothballs of Tsarist Russia: "Way, sir!”

But fuck you! The authorities should not step on the same rake again - this can lead to another bloody civil war. But if the authorities decided to really pacify the whites and reds, it is necessary that she do it consistently. Judging from a historical point of view, both the Reds and the Whites defended their vision of the arrangement of the Motherland. Both those and others sincerely loved her and went for her to die. But after the victory of the red over the white, the royal officers had to accept this result, and start working for the benefit of the common homeland. Some of them managed to overcome their pride and helped rebuild the country lying in the ruins. And someone, until his death, permanently destroyed the Soviet Union and the Russian people. And this is the border that separates from betrayal. And many Balkhawks in emigration crossed it. And after that moment they ceased to be Russian and erased all former services to the Fatherland, they obtained in pre-revolutionary Russia. And praise, and other honors to these traitors - this is wrong. This is bad!

Both the communists and the bread crust must understand that all periods of our history are important and valuable for the motherland. They can not be thrown out or replayed. They need to be understood and respected. One of the directions of this reconciliation plan is to foster respect for the supreme power in Russia. Therefore, the monument to Nicholas II was opened, and the Yeltsin Center otgrohali. And I think the same will be with Gorbachev after his death. And I agree here. Both Yeltsin, Nikolai the Second, and Gorbachev were the supreme rulers of Russia. We can not ignore it or say that it was not. Yes, these leaders made terrible mistakes, yes, they did more harm than good. But they are part of our story. And treats it carefully and with respect.

After all, to be honest, we also share responsibility for any historical events taking place in our country. And our fault in the collapse of the Soviet Union, no less than that of Gorbachev or Yeltsin. It seems to me, we must realize and reconcile with this.

I'm not talking about forgiveness. Forgive the millions of dead Russian lives, as a result of the collapse of the USSR, it is impossible ... But you can lower your emotional intensity of hatred, and realize that this is already a story, this is our common past. And be sure to extract from this error. And never repeat them again.

Well, if the authorities want to be honest to the end, then the monarchists and the White Guards should be made clear that this is not revenge and not an attempt to trample, hide or belittle, in fact, the fantastic successes of the Communists. This is not a rematch. This is reconciliation.

That's why I, and I think most Russians of all nationalities will support me, would like to see an equally huge historical center .... well, like the Yeltsin center .... only about Stalin. This historical figure was much more a statesman than Yeltsin, Gorbachev, Nicholas II and other, other historical figures. Monuments, museums and tablets which, with such pathos, are opened by the highest authorities.

And yes, I have the same question for the Russian Orthodox Church. Does she want justice? Since nicholas II was among the saints, why not do the same with Joseph Stalin? After all, he brought benefits to our Fatherland many times more than Nicholas II, who merged everything!

Totals.
Time cannot be returned, it is impossible to return Tsarist Russia, it is impossible to return the Soviet Union. Look around! We have the current Russia, which we can do better, and we must do it. Make it better than Tsarist Russia, better than the Soviet Union or any other historical period in the life of our Motherland! So that on the pages of future history textbooks they would not write about us that we are the generation that lost everything. So that our descendants speak about us with pride and respect. That they were not ashamed of us.

Everything! Believe in your people and your country! See you soon!
Well, comrades and gentlemen, it's time to grind for the Motherland ...
Who among you loves her stronger and more correctly. =)
But, I confess, the video is not funny left ... Perhaps, even very evil! So do not whine! Watch and understand!

Author:
Originator:
http://nashfront.org/discuss/video/614-zloi_ivan_30.html
123 comments
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  1. nik-karata
    nik-karata 22 June 2016 12: 19
    -17%
    And I, damn it, against both. Both are to blame for the mass killings of Russian people! Both on the count. And it does not matter which of them and what more has been done for Russia! IMHO hi
    1. Ami du peuple
      Ami du peuple 22 June 2016 12: 23
      +20
      Quote: nik-karata
      And I, damn it, against both
      And you, damn it. against who? I don’t understand who these "both" are
      But seriously, it’s possible that you live thanks to Stalin, Kolya. And he did not become fertilizer on the German farmer's farm. Just on June 22nd it would be nice to think about it.
      1. Temples
        Temples 22 June 2016 12: 35
        +22
        Mannerheim is an oath-criminal.

        He swore an oath to the King, swore in the name of the Lord.
        Then he simply betrayed both the Tsar and Russia with him.
        I cut myself a "chunk" and blissed out all my life.
        Yes, he destroyed the Russians the rest of his life.

        He is worse than any aggressor.
        He is a TRAITOR and a CRIMINAL.

        Such a "board" should be hung around the authors' necks.
        1. Mahmut
          Mahmut 22 June 2016 12: 51
          -38%
          And he also had concentration camps where Russians were killed.

          Not Russian, but Bolsheviks. Lenin killed the Russians, and Mannerheim killed the Guz.
          1. Fitter65
            Fitter65 22 June 2016 14: 41
            +10
            And how many Russians did Lenin kill? If I could then I would like to see (hear) the facts. But Mannerheim was the one who killed the Russians. So for general development, read what the independent Finns did to the Russian officers and their families, after gaining independence. Or did the Bolsheviks swear They did Finland. So, for the overall development of the tsar, the Bolsheviks, not hated by you, were overthrown (forced to abdicate, if you will), but his entourage, under the cries of joy of the same Leberasts as you. when your predecessors in 1917 proliferated everything and a little more, then only the Bolsheviks appeared who decided in any way to save RUSSIA, the same Brest peace was disgraceful, but it helped at the beginning of the new government, and then it was buried. Therefore, the patriot sees his homeland as a story of his country, not so much as a grant-eater-leberast who is ready for Vikins cookies to ruin his country, but when he’s got a boot on his ass (we don’t have to drink in public places) immediately on the hind legs, they are indignant, how are we trading here with our Motherland and you face us on the asphalt.
            1. Thomas 1989
              Thomas 1989 22 June 2016 16: 38
              -4
              I think that Lenin was not able to hold arms in his hands, but nevertheless, in a matter of months, he led the country out of @ shit into which Russia was immersed by the dynasty of the so-called Roman
              1. RUSS
                RUSS 22 June 2016 17: 26
                +3
                Quote: Thomas 1989
                I think that Lenin did not know how to hold arms in his hands, but nevertheless, in a matter of months he brought the country out of @ shit

                Years and years have gone into the restoration of Russia, not months as you say Gene.
                1. Thomas 1989
                  Thomas 1989 10 July 2016 15: 40
                  +1
                  I mean the restoration of a unified state administration, then modernization, industrialization began .......
          2. larand
            larand 23 June 2016 10: 15
            0
            Quote: Mahmut
            And he also had concentration camps where Russians were killed.

            Not Russian, but Bolsheviks. Lenin killed the Russians, and Mannerheim killed the Guz.

            Mahmut, it stinks of you as a fascist.
        2. AID.S
          AID.S 22 June 2016 13: 02
          +1
          Quote: Temples
          Mannerheim is an oathbreaker

          Wrong argument. Almost the entire male population before 1972 was born. The USSR took the oath .... All bad? Wow, even Putin swore an oath. Liberators will confirm that he has a "chunk", and that his lifestyle is not ascetic.
          1. Mahmut
            Mahmut 22 June 2016 13: 46
            -6
            After World War II, leaders of countries that were satellite in Germany were executed. Some were hanged, others were shot. There was only one exception - the commander in chief of the Finnish army, Karl Mannerheim. He was not punished, even, on the contrary, raised. At the request of Joseph Stalin, Mannerheim was elected President of Finland. And it was with him that the Soviet Union concluded a peace treaty. And in our time, Vladimir Putin laid flowers on the grave of the Baron in Helsinki. Why is this love for Karl Mannerheim? And from the fact that neither Stalin, nor Putin, nor Sergey Ivanov know the history of their country, unlike representatives of the couch nobility. The fourth article on the same topic, so many leaves and I stick around in it.
            1. reservist
              reservist 22 June 2016 14: 03
              +2
              Quote: Mahmut
              After World War II, country leaders ...

              The president of Finland was then Risto Ryti.
              In 1945, he was convicted as a war criminal and sentenced to 10 years in prison.

              March 12, 1940. Signing of a peace treaty between the USSR and Finland.
              1. The comment was deleted.
        3. 97110
          97110 22 June 2016 13: 20
          +3
          Quote: Temples
          He swore an oath to the King

          His greatness has denied his greatness. Accordingly, having freed from the oath sworn to him
          Quote: Temples
          in the name of the Lord
          . As far as I know, the HRC does not welcome oaths. Enough love of God. Well, that's not the point.
          Quote: Temples
          Such a "board" should be hung around the authors' necks.

          This is fair. More and green, green ...
          1. Temples
            Temples 22 June 2016 14: 47
            +6
            His greatness has denied his greatness.


            "Egonian greatness" abdicated in favor of the heir.
            This fact does not cancel the oath.

            You read the oath of those years.

            1. bober1982
              bober1982 22 June 2016 14: 54
              +4
              The sovereign denied in favor of his brother, Mikhail Alexandrovich
        4. Maksus
          Maksus 22 June 2016 15: 09
          +2
          After the revolution, both the Tsar and that Russia to which he swore disappeared. Formally, he did not violate the oath.
        5. Now we are free
          Now we are free 22 June 2016 16: 33
          +6
          The good old HOLIVAR has begun or, to put it more simply, POLITSR ...
          Dear VO editorial board, maybe we WILL NOT FORGET the behests of one clever man "Apollo", who categorically suppressed political and national disputes on the site. It is necessary for people to let off steam, let them write to each other "In a personal" and there they whip each other in the faces with gloves. Why smear "Goulash in the corridor"? .. Because of this, many "techies" and simply educated and cultured people left the site, who began to get annoyed by this "White noise" giving off "Bazarshina" and "Tram rudeness" ...

          P.S. Regarding this issue of "Vanya Pobeda" I can say that he went a little too far about "Khrustobulok" because the same DENIKIN who was in exile, when emissaries from Vlasov came to him, sent them to ... (of course in literary language) With words, I I regret the Lord that I am not fighting now on the side of the Reds against you ...

          Excerpt from the biography: With the Nazis coming to power in Germany, he condemned Hitler's policies. Unlike a number of emigrant figures who planned to participate in hostilities against the Red Army on the side of foreign states unfriendly of the USSR, he advocated the need to support the Red Army against any foreign aggressor, with the subsequent awakening of the Russian spirit in the ranks of this army, which, according to the general, and must overthrow Bolshevism in Russia and at the same time preserve the army itself from Russia.

          Besides: In 1943, Denikin sent a wagon with medicines to the Red Army at his personal expense.what puzzled Stalin and the Soviet leadership. It was decided to take the medications, and not to disclose the name of the author of their dispatch

          Nobleness and honor do not depend either on the nation or on political views. Either it is or it is not. Shkuro (real name Shkura) Krasnov and Mannerheim to you as an example as the opposite of Denikin and Slashchev.

          PS
          So that you can argue to the point of stupidity. But on the pages of VO to me that there was not a single dispute where the truth would be born that suited both opponents. And therefore, all the same, Apollo was right.
          1. Alibekulu
            Alibekulu 22 June 2016 17: 32
            +3
            Quote: Now we are free
            Because of this, many "techies" and simply educated and cultured people left the site, who began to get annoyed by this "White noise" giving off "Bazarshchina" and "Tram rudeness" ...
            Once such a booze has gone, then we will be honest to the end - not they gone well them "gone" lol
          2. kit_bellew
            kit_bellew 23 June 2016 01: 09
            -1
            the same DENIKIN in exile, when emissaries from Vlasov came to him, sent them to ...

            I do not want holivarov, but nonetheless. Firstly, you can’t say that, well, they say, since Denikin was such a fine fellow, then the rest - ooh! In general, since he was such a fine fellow, why didn’t he ask to serve his country, like so many wonderful generals and officers of the Empire? They could have taken, despite past jokes. In the end: I don’t remember what year, but the servicemen, who served under the tsar’s father, were allowed to wear St. George’s and other crosses, honestly deserved in the battles for their homeland again under tsarism, just below the Soviet orders and medals. There was a moment of genuine reconciliation and agreement. And now? Patience, comrade veterans - there is no money. am
            1. reservist
              reservist 23 June 2016 10: 59
              +1
              Quote: kit_bellew
              In the end: I don’t remember what year, but the servicemen, who served under the tsar’s father, were allowed to wear St. George’s and other crosses, honestly deserved in the battles for their homeland again under tsarism, just below the Soviet orders and medals.

              Well, it’s kind of as if they weren’t allowed, but they stopped banning.
              Tsarist "Georgias" began to be worn in 1943 "without prior arrangement", after the return of shoulder straps and the establishment of the Order of Glory (which essentially repeated "George").
              There was a draft government decree according to which the St. George Knights should be equated with the Knights of the Order of Glory, but it was never accepted.

              photo taken in 1945 before the Victory Parade in Berlin
              1. Maksus
                Maksus 23 June 2016 11: 20
                +2
                Quote: reservist

                photo taken in 1945 before the Victory Parade in Berlin


                Great shot. In the foreground, Captain Gruslanov - the full St. George Knight. Famous writer, bibliophile and bonist.
        6. The comment was deleted.
        7. Mavrikiy
          Mavrikiy 22 June 2016 19: 19
          0
          Quote: Temples
          Mannerheim is an oath-criminal.

          He swore an oath to the King, swore in the name of the Lord.
          Then he simply betrayed both the Tsar and Russia with him.
          I cut myself a "chunk" and blissed out all my life.
          Yes, he destroyed the Russians the rest of his life.

          He is worse than any aggressor.
          He is a TRAITOR and a CRIMINAL.


          Such a "board" should be hung around the authors' necks.

          Let me tell you: there Neva is not far away or immediately to the Baltic. Let G ... swim (my mother would not approve) to Finland, they will appreciate it and let them smell it.
      2. razmik72
        razmik72 22 June 2016 12: 46
        -26%
        Quote: Ami du peuple
        Quote: nik-karata
        And I, damn it, against both
        And you, damn it. against who? I don’t understand who these "both" are
        But seriously, it’s possible that you live thanks to Stalin, Kolya. And he did not become fertilizer on the German farmer's farm. Just on June 22nd it would be nice to think about it.

        Ivan the Victory burns - the Russian Orthodox Church should be counted among the saints of Stalin, after all that he did with it. Then Lenin-Ulyanov and Dzerzhinsky, why not elevate to the saints, I read that Felix Edmundovich not only butchered and put to the wall of the same priests, but he also saved street children who appeared in Russia in large numbers thanks to the activities of Dzerzhinsky. By the way, Stalin did not win the Great Patriotic War, the Germans were defeated by a simple Soviet soldier, not Stalin, who was never at the forefront.
        1. Mahmut
          Mahmut 22 June 2016 12: 54
          -11%
          Lenin loved children and Dzerzhinsky loved children. But truly Kedrov and his wife loved children.
          1. The comment was deleted.
          2. RUSS
            RUSS 22 June 2016 13: 02
            +4
            [
            Quote: Mahmut
            Lenin loved children

            The teacher tells the children about Lenin in a lesson:
            - Lenin was very fond of children! Once he was going to shave in the morning in a hut in
            Spill. And here the boy comes up to him. Lenin took a razor, and he
            the boy looks slyly! He beat up the soap. I started to shave. Lenin razor
            shaves - and he glances at the boy slyly! He finished shaving. Has become
            wipe the blade. Lenin rubs a razor - and he slyly
            peeps! So he finished wiping the razor, blew on it and gently
            folded into a case. And could RINSE
          3. razmik72
            razmik72 22 June 2016 13: 05
            -7
            Quote: Mahmut
            Lenin loved children and Dzerzhinsky loved children. But truly Kedrov and his wife loved children.

            But who says that Dzerzhinsky did not like children, in my comment I wrote that Comrade Dzerzhinsky first contributed to an increase in the number of these homeless children, and then with revolutionary decisiveness I decided to resolve the issue of homeless children.
        2. Ami du peuple
          Ami du peuple 22 June 2016 13: 02
          +22
          Quote: razmik72
          By the way, Stalin did not win the Great Patriotic War, the Germans were defeated by a simple Soviet soldier, not Stalin, who was never at the forefront.
          Aha, the soldier himself and "won". He made weapons, ammunition and uniforms for himself, grew his own food, healed himself in hospitals. And he commanded himself too. Stop talking liberoid nonsense. The Soviet state and its heroic people won the Great War. Under the leadership of Stalin. Dixi.
          And to blame him that he was not at the forefront .. In your opinion, should the Supreme Commander himself raise the shelves to attack?
          1. razmik72
            razmik72 22 June 2016 13: 18
            -15%
            Quote: Ami du peuple
            Quote: razmik72
            By the way, Stalin did not win the Great Patriotic War, the Germans were defeated by a simple Soviet soldier, not Stalin, who was never at the forefront.
            Aha, the soldier himself and "won". He made weapons, ammunition and uniforms for himself, grew his own food, healed himself in hospitals. And he commanded himself too. Stop talking liberoid nonsense. The Soviet state and its heroic people won the Great War. Under the leadership of Stalin. And the fact that he was not on the front line .. In your opinion, the Supreme Commander-in-Chief should himself raise the regiments into the attack?

            And who fought instead of my grandfather, three times wounded, Joseph Vissarionovich? And when in the trench on his rifle was only 5 rounds, then who is to blame? Who allowed the enemy to reach Moscow and Stalingrad? You are talking nonsense. No one demands that the father of nations himself lead the regiments, but he does not even visit the command posts of the armies.
            1. Ami du peuple
              Ami du peuple 22 June 2016 13: 29
              +10
              Quote: razmik72
              And who fought instead of my grandfather, three times wounded
              Not only one grandfather fought with you
              Quote: razmik72
              And when in the trench on his rifle was only 5 rounds, then who is to blame?
              Personally, the Supreme and the Chairman of the GKO, damn it, is to blame. And not the foreman of the company or nachboepit.
              Quote: razmik72
              Who allowed the enemy to reach Moscow and Stalingrad?
              And who admitted that we reached Berlin? That is, Stalin is to blame for the defeats, but he did not participate at all in the Victory - "they won in spite of", yeah.
              Quote: razmik72
              but he was not even at the command posts of the armies.
              And what should he do there? To assess the situation at the CP of armies and fronts, there were representatives of the Headquarters and the General Staff, whom Stalin trusted. What could he personally see at the front line that military professionals could not see?
              1. razmik72
                razmik72 22 June 2016 13: 53
                -7
                Quote: Ami du peuple
                Quote: razmik72
                And who fought instead of my grandfather, three times wounded
                Not only one grandfather fought with you
                Quote: razmik72
                And when in the trench on his rifle was only 5 rounds, then who is to blame?
                Personally, the Supreme and the Chairman of the GKO, damn it, is to blame. And not the foreman of the company or nachboepit.
                Quote: razmik72
                Who allowed the enemy to reach Moscow and Stalingrad?
                And who admitted that we reached Berlin? That is, Stalin is to blame for the defeats, but he did not participate at all in the Victory - "they won in spite of", yeah.
                Quote: razmik72
                but he was not even at the command posts of the armies.
                And what should he do there? To assess the situation at the CP of armies and fronts, there were representatives of the Headquarters and the General Staff, whom Stalin trusted. What could he personally see at the front line that military professionals could not see?

                My grandfather wasn’t given cartridges, since there weren’t more rounds of ammunition. And he, captivated, was taken prisoner, escaped from captivity and continued to fight, reaching Berlin. After the victory he was remembered, expelled from the Communist Party and wanted to exile, but mine his grandfather was awarded several orders, and he was not touched, although his nerves were badly spoiled. Grandfather never treated Stalin's personality with such reverence, he criticized him, saying that human life in the army was not worth a penny, a drunk company commander without any artillery training and without tanks drove the soldiers to the fortified positions of the enemy and lost the whole company.
                1. yehat
                  yehat 22 June 2016 14: 46
                  +3
                  a separate question - and who was the grandfather in the war?
                  There were construction parts, there were penal battalions, there were militias
                  However, I DO NOT BELIEVE that they issued a rifle and only 1 clip of ammunition in the regular army.
                  Most likely, they either armed the volunteers with anything in their puffs or fought surrounded, because of which the ammunition ended.
                  As for the drunken commanders and "lost a company", Stalin put quite a few commanders on trial for this. And even if a person remained in service after unjustifiably large losses, he received a stigma until the end of his career.
                  For example, the notorious Konev, after the losses near Rzhev, associated with not the most successful command, really risked his head if Zhukov had not stood up for him. So there is no need to talk about Stalin's "drunken commanders". These people were strangers to everyone.
                2. Diana Ilyina
                  Diana Ilyina 22 June 2016 14: 46
                  +9
                  Quote: razmik72
                  either artillery training and without tanks drove the soldiers to the fortified positions of the enemy and lost the whole company.


                  You all lie about your grandfather and everything else! All your stories are licked from the same training manual and all the stories about the allegedly fought grandfathers, captivity, one rifle for three and one and a half cartridges for it and other crap, like two drops of water are similar!

                  My grandfather also fought and not one! There were two prisoners, one after the escape was returned to duty and he served until the end of the war, the other after his liberation in France, after the war he was indeed sent to Kolyma, but the truth is not for captivity, but for communication with the Frenchwoman!
                  1. razmik72
                    razmik72 22 June 2016 15: 39
                    0
                    Quote: Diana Ilyina
                    Quote: razmik72
                    either artillery training and without tanks drove the soldiers to the fortified positions of the enemy and lost the whole company.


                    You all lie about your grandfather and everything else! All your stories are licked from the same training manual and all the stories about the allegedly fought grandfathers, captivity, one rifle for three and one and a half cartridges for it and other crap, like two drops of water are similar!

                    My grandfather also fought and not one! There were two prisoners, one after the escape was returned to duty and he served until the end of the war, the other after his liberation in France, after the war he was indeed sent to Kolyma, but the truth is not for captivity, but for communication with the Frenchwoman!

                    Well, of course, if something does not fit the image of Stalin that you invented, then everything that they write is a lie, but how can it be that in the Red Army there couldn’t be such that a soldier would be given just a pack of clips from Mosin, not it’s possible that the commander would be drunk, but how can this be, it’s even scary to think about it. And my grandfather served in rifle units, at first, after the formation of the unit, they were sent to Iran, and then transported to Moscow and he He took part in the battle for Moscow. He told me even more terrible things, just judging by the reaction of the forum users, I would be ridiculed and misunderstood. For example, my grandfather told me that near Moscow he would have to get warm from the dead bodies to build a kind of shelter and lie there.
                    1. Diana Ilyina
                      Diana Ilyina 22 June 2016 17: 27
                      +6
                      Quote: razmik72
                      For example, my grandfather said that near Moscow, in order to keep warm, he had to build a kind of shelter from the corpses of the fallen and lie there.


                      You're lying again! How can you keep warm by hiding in a "semblance of a shelter of corpses" ?! It's much more convenient in the trench, don't you think ?! Or were there no trenches near Moscow ?!

                      I repeat you are a LIAR and your whole story is invented from beginning to end, or your liar is your imaginary grandfather!
                      Firstly, you are lying because real war veterans never told the whole truth about the horrors of war! My grandfathers, for example, told only some curious or funny cases, even the most terrible first days they recalled with humor, how in some pants jumped barracks from the second floor during the first bombing!
                      Secondly, we are in our winter even the most severe, always familiar and well dressed, take the same notorious quilted jackets.
                      Thirdly, there were some isolated cases of drunkenness of officers, but they were punished and punished very severely, so here you lied!
                      Fourthly, it’s IMPOSSIBLE to believe a person caught in a lie at least once, and you have lied more than once!

                      So the conclusion is simple, you do not have any "grandfather who fought," as there is neither honor nor conscience!
                      1. razmik72
                        razmik72 22 June 2016 18: 07
                        +3
                        Quote: Diana Ilyina
                        Quote: razmik72
                        For example, my grandfather said that near Moscow, in order to keep warm, he had to build a kind of shelter from the corpses of the fallen and lie there.


                        You're lying again! How can you keep warm by hiding in a "semblance of a shelter of corpses" ?! It's much more convenient in the trench, don't you think ?! Or were there no trenches near Moscow ?!

                        I repeat you are a LIAR and your whole story is invented from beginning to end, or your liar is your imaginary grandfather!
                        Firstly, you are lying because real war veterans never told the whole truth about the horrors of war! My grandfathers, for example, told only some curious or funny cases, even the most terrible first days they recalled with humor, how in some pants jumped barracks from the second floor during the first bombing!
                        Secondly, we are in our winter even the most severe, always familiar and well dressed, take the same notorious quilted jackets.
                        Thirdly, there were some isolated cases of drunkenness of officers, but they were punished and punished very severely, so here you lied!
                        Fourthly, it’s IMPOSSIBLE to believe a person caught in a lie at least once, and you have lied more than once!

                        So the conclusion is simple, you do not have any "grandfather who fought," as there is neither honor nor conscience!

                        Well, I wrote that your vision of the world, your beautiful world created by your fantasies, does not fit how you can sleep with corpses, but how, when approaching near Moscow, trenches are dug everywhere, they are found at every step, just a grandfather I did not think of spending the night in it. laughing . Well, of course, I’m LSU, but what about, my grandfather lied the same when he said that during the capture of the German echelon, wagons with alcohol were discovered and the whole regiment was completely drunk.
                      2. Mahmut
                        Mahmut 22 June 2016 18: 33
                        +1
                        Or were there no trenches near Moscow ?!

                        For the French explain. Trenches near Moscow do not grow. Especially in winter.
                      3. AID.S
                        AID.S 22 June 2016 20: 40
                        +1
                        So it happened to us that the farther away some events from us, the more their participants become. And this causes legitimate suspicions. In order to resolve your dispute, you would post photos of your grandfather, front-line, with awards, post-war, yes would describe his military path, then, perhaps, there would be no certain doubts.
                    2. Ami du peuple
                      Ami du peuple 22 June 2016 23: 06
                      0
                      Quote: Diana Ilyina
                      How can you keep warm by hiding in a "semblance of a shelter of corpses" ?!
                      Can. This refers to the opportunity to hide from the wind behind a parapet of icy corpses. Any, but protection.
                      Quote: Diana Ilyina
                      Or were there no trenches near Moscow ?!
                      Not at all lines had time to dig in. And at minus temperatures, picking frozen ground for a frozen and tired fighter is a dubious pleasure. So again, it’s quite possible, if there are enough killed.
                      Quote: Diana Ilyina
                      At first
                      Different front-line soldiers happen. Personally, I had to hear terrible things from veterans.
                      Quote: Diana Ilyina
                      Secondly
                      Your opponent’s grandfather is from Armenia, as I understand it. Yes, and part was transferred from Iran - they could well have been in their overcoats. These are my assumptions - facts are not enough.
                      Quote: Diana Ilyina
                      Third,
                      Oh, I beg you! There were as many cases of heavy drinking on the front lines. Including among the command staff. Another thing is that they really punished for misconduct that led to the unjustified death of the entrusted l / s. And drunkenness was an aggravating circumstance then.
                      Quote: Diana Ilyina
                      you have no "grandfather who fought," just as there is neither honor nor conscience!
                      And here I would not rush to conclusions. hi
              2. bovig
                bovig 22 June 2016 15: 14
                +2
                = razmik72 that human life in the army was not worth a penny, the drunk company commander, without any artillery preparation and without tanks, drove the soldiers to the enemy’s fortified positions and lost the entire company.

                So, in your company your grandfather fought with such a commander? It's amazing how he survived ... Or did he who lived from this company tell this story? Well, with a drunk commander, then everything is clear - if he survived, then he was shot ...
                1. razmik72
                  razmik72 22 June 2016 15: 48
                  0
                  Quote: bovig
                  = razmik72 that human life in the army was not worth a penny, the drunk company commander, without any artillery preparation and without tanks, drove the soldiers to the enemy’s fortified positions and lost the entire company.

                  So, in your company your grandfather fought with such a commander? It's amazing how he survived ... Or did he who lived from this company tell this story? Well, with a drunk commander, then everything is clear - if he survived, then he was shot ...

                  As for the future fate of this commander, he was wounded, like my grandfather, after the hospital, his grandfather did not know anything about his fate, but he was definitely not shot and this is not an isolated case, one often encountered this.
                  1. Ami du peuple
                    Ami du peuple 22 June 2016 16: 47
                    +2
                    Quote: razmik72
                    his grandfather did not know anything about his fate, but he was definitely not shot
                    Reinforced concrete logic: "about fate nothing didn't know but exactly did not shoot. "Hats off hi
                    Quote: razmik72
                    and this is not an isolated case, one has often come across this.
                    To whom? Again to your grandfather? It is very likely that in his military unit, chronic alcoholism was the main criterion for appointment to command posts.
            2. Mahmut
              Mahmut 22 June 2016 13: 55
              -3
              By the way, Stalin did not win the Great Patriotic War, the Germans were defeated by a simple Soviet soldier

              Stalin won the war, and the Soviet soldier won it. I do not see the contradictions.
              1. Altona
                Altona 22 June 2016 14: 55
                +5
                Quote: Mahmut
                Stalin won the war, and the Soviet soldier won it.

                -----------------------
                The war was won by the entire Soviet people, led by Stalin. Without the Supreme, you cannot win a war. And in general, how can you win something without command? Even a children's game. The Supreme Commander is doing a great job, he needs to read memos from the commanders of the fronts, from the directors of defense plants, diplomatic correspondence, intelligence reports. All this information must be comprehended and put into puzzles. Do not give in vain to spend resources, which are also given expensive blood, soldiers, bread, rifles, ammunition, tanks, aircraft, guns. Promote frames in time, do not forget to award and punish them. And you say a rifle with 5 rounds. My grandfather (mother’s father) in the trench in hand-to-hand fighting almost gave his soul to God, a bayonet-knife showed me a German with which they rushed at him. Then he took away the boots, the gas lighter, the dangerous razor and this bayonet from the victim.
                1. Mahmut
                  Mahmut 22 June 2016 18: 18
                  0
                  And in general, how can you win something without command? Even a children's game.

                  The war was won by the entire Soviet people, led by Stalin.

                  They compared the war with the game, and even claim this on behalf of the entire Soviet people. Maybe for the generals, especially the couch war, there was a game similar to the game of soldiers and which they won. But for my grandfathers it was not a game, but a battle to the death in which they won. So - more clearly. Where Russia is heading, why are you all stupidly stupid.
          2. yehat
            yehat 22 June 2016 14: 38
            +5
            Quote: razmik72
            but he was not even at the command posts of the armies.

            yeah, and the forest did not cut in Siberia, and did not starve in Leningrad, and the cotton did not harvest in Kazakhstan, what a scoundrel! lol
          3. Altona
            Altona 22 June 2016 14: 44
            +2
            Quote: razmik72
            And who fought instead of my grandfather, three times wounded, Joseph Vissarionovich? And when in the trench on his rifle was only 5 rounds, then who is to blame? Who allowed the enemy to reach Moscow and Stalingrad? You are talking nonsense. No one demands that the father of nations himself lead the regiments, but he does not even visit the command posts of the armies.

            --------------
            Only in my family there are three fathers, a grandfather and his two brothers, who did not come from the war. Mother's father also came injured after Budapest. Moreover, the deceased grandfather was recorded as "missing" and was found 22 years ago near Mogilev, which means that my father was not entitled to any help.
          4. Shaber
            Shaber 22 June 2016 22: 14
            +1
            About five rounds he invented? How many did not dig our cartridges had enough .. to say the least.
          5. Shaber
            Shaber 22 June 2016 22: 14
            +2
            About five rounds he invented? How many did not dig our cartridges had enough .. to say the least.
        3. 97110
          97110 22 June 2016 13: 24
          +2
          Quote: Ami du peuple
          In your opinion, the Supreme Commander must himself

          digging trenches for personnel. This is so democratic ...
          1. razmik72
            razmik72 22 June 2016 13: 46
            -3
            Quote: 97110
            Quote: Ami du peuple
            In your opinion, the Supreme Commander must himself

            digging trenches for personnel. This is so democratic ...

            And who says that Stalin personally had to dig trenches. But he didn’t personally shoot the enemies and in Mexico he personally was an ice ax smile He didn’t kill him.
            1. yehat
              yehat 22 June 2016 14: 55
              0
              but I wouldn’t guarantee about an ice ax laughing
              Dzhugashvili’s career in the party was very characteristic
        4. Diana Ilyina
          Diana Ilyina 22 June 2016 13: 32
          +14
          Quote: Ami du peuple
          Aha, the soldier himself and "won". He made weapons, ammunition and uniforms for himself, grew his own food, healed himself in hospitals. And he commanded himself too. Stop talking liberoid nonsense. The Soviet state and its heroic people won the Great War. Under the leadership of Stalin. Dixi.
          And to blame him that he was not at the forefront .. In your opinion, should the Supreme Commander himself raise the shelves to attack?


          Gold words! I always write about it myself. They invented nonsense about Stalin, beginning with Khrushchev and ending with contemporaries, especially in the dashing 90s! And most importantly, who tried ... what names ... not names, but names: Solzhenitsin, sugars, Svanidze, Gozman and other and other rot, besides not Russian!

          Leave the name of Joseph Vissarionovich alone, not a single leader of the country except Peter the Great and Catherine the Great has achieved such results as Joseph Stalin!
          1. The comment was deleted.
          2. sisa29
            sisa29 22 June 2016 16: 43
            +2
            Forgot to remember our master of cinema Mikhalkov. It is in his films that drunken generals throw soldiers to death just like that and the Germans shit from the plane on our heads. And victory is achieved not by the heroism of our soldiers, but by chance. And the Russian soldier according to "Mikhalkov" is necessarily a drunkard and fools. I have not seen a greater humiliation of the Russian soldier as in the films of this bastard.
      3. 97110
        97110 22 June 2016 13: 22
        -1
        Quote: razmik72
        raise to saints

        Is it in Armenian? Sacred. And erect on the frontal place.
        1. razmik72
          razmik72 22 June 2016 13: 36
          +2
          Quote: 97110
          Quote: razmik72
          raise to saints

          Is it in Armenian? Sacred. And erect on the frontal place.

          Well, no need to switch to nationality, if there is nothing to argue.
    2. nik-karata
      nik-karata 22 June 2016 13: 29
      -3
      Quote: Ami du peuple
      Quote: nik-karata
      And I, damn it, against both
      And you, damn it. against who? I don’t understand who these "both" are
      But seriously, it’s possible that you live thanks to Stalin, Kolya. And he did not become fertilizer on the German farmer's farm. Just on June 22nd it would be nice to think about it.



      Both are Mannerheim and Kadyrov !!!
    3. nik-karata
      nik-karata 22 June 2016 13: 29
      -3
      Quote: Ami du peuple
      Quote: nik-karata
      And I, damn it, against both
      And you, damn it. against who? I don’t understand who these "both" are
      But seriously, it’s possible that you live thanks to Stalin, Kolya. And he did not become fertilizer on the German farmer's farm. Just on June 22nd it would be nice to think about it.



      Both are Mannerheim and Kadyrov !!!
  2. kotvov
    kotvov 22 June 2016 12: 26
    +9
    And I, damn it, against both,
    actually against someone BOTH? and for someone FOR? said A, it’s necessary to say B.A. Peter I, how do you associate? There is also no bloodshed there. And what we are pushing the idea of ​​angel-like kings is for sure.
    1. Temples
      Temples 22 June 2016 12: 48
      +8
      we push the idea of ​​angel-like kings, that's for sure.

      the bull's eye!!!
      Romanov simply leaked the country to his brother in England (the country of angels).
      Abandoned the throne. Tired apparently. I’m going to retire.
      So his brothers and sisters threw him.
    2. nik-karata
      nik-karata 22 June 2016 13: 35
      -1
      Actually what is the article about ?! Did not read? I will inform you: we are talking about a tablet with Mannerheim and the Kadyrov bridge! So guess three times!
      1. Ami du peuple
        Ami du peuple 22 June 2016 13: 46
        +3
        Quote: nik-karata
        Actually what is the article about ?! Did not read? I will inform you: we are talking about a tablet with Mannerheim and the Kadyrov bridge!
        I read it carefully again, then listened attentively again. Ivan Pobeda did not say a word about Kadyrov. So be clear, "to avoid", so to speakhi
    3. nik-karata
      nik-karata 22 June 2016 13: 35
      0
      Actually what is the article about ?! Did not read? I will inform you: we are talking about a tablet with Mannerheim and the Kadyrov bridge! So guess three times!
  3. 79807420129
    79807420129 22 June 2016 12: 49
    +13
    Quote: nik-karata
    And I, damn it, against both. Both are to blame for the mass killings of Russian people! Both on the count. And it does not matter which of them and what more has been done for Russia! IMHO

    Who's the stake, you say more precisely dear, against Mannerheim? Here I agree with you, only a stake in his grave, and not a board in the city that Mannerheim strangled in blockade, if you are talking about Stalin, you are still alive thanks to Stalin, and not:
    Quote: Ami du peuple
    And he did not become fertilizer on the German farmer's farm.

    Being Ivan who does not remember kinship can end badly.
    Quote: nik-karata
    And it does not matter which of them and what more has been done for Russia! IMHO

    It is important, very important, they are judged not for beautiful clothes, but for deeds.
  4. Vend
    Vend 22 June 2016 13: 03
    -1
    Hello to all of ours and not ours!
    The author, may already be enough to share on ours and not ours. Not warred yet? Was there little blood shed?
    1. 97110
      97110 22 June 2016 13: 37
      -1
      Quote: Wend
      Not warred yet? Was there little blood shed?

      Are you delighted to get acquainted with the news about the "son of the vice-president" who broke away from Gaitsov? Do you like sweet couples, where he is in slippers, she - with a song about them? And weddings for lard? This is a real revenge of white bones, blue bloods. And the Soviet people are still alive, and they tell their grandchildren. And those - BELIEVE that "a man - it sounds proudly!". And frolicking "children" can quite rearing up "slaves". I'm not joking, I heard from the son of a deputy of the State Duma public discourse about dividing everyone into slaves and Masters, and that slaves should be grateful to the Masters to the grave for the opportunity to hunchback on the Masters. You can and will stand such a division - someone else's soul - darkness. But US - NO! While people endure, they understand that the enemy is at the gate. How much will they endure?
      1. Vend
        Vend 22 June 2016 14: 50
        +2
        Quote: 97110
        Quote: Wend
        Not warred yet? Was there little blood shed?

        Are you delighted to get acquainted with the news about the "son of the vice-president" who broke away from Gaitsov? Do you like sweet couples, where he is in slippers, she - with a song about them? And weddings for lard? This is a real revenge of white bones, blue bloods. And the Soviet people are still alive, and they tell their grandchildren. And those - BELIEVE that "a man - it sounds proudly!". And frolicking "children" can quite rearing up "slaves". I'm not joking, I heard from the son of a deputy of the State Duma public discourse about dividing everyone into slaves and Masters, and that slaves should be grateful to the Masters to the grave for the opportunity to hunchback on the Masters. You can and will stand such a division - someone else's soul - darkness. But US - NO! While people endure, they understand that the enemy is at the gate. How much will they endure?

        Yes, I see you had little blood. Want to plunge Russia into a civil war again. I’ll tell you a little secret, whenever a civil war happens, there will always be countries that will profit at our expense. And what does the world live differently? Or do you want the rich to celebrate weddings in cheap eateries? Now you get one salary, spend on one set of goods. You will receive more, you will spend on a more expensive set of goods. And there is no need to incite people to hatred. Want to change something, start with the political field.
        1. 97110
          97110 22 June 2016 17: 17
          0
          Quote: Wend
          I’ll tell you a little secret, whenever a civil war occurs, there will always be countries that survive, at our expense.

          Thank you humbly, I did not know. To put a bridle on "children" who demonstrate a positive attitude towards society is, of course, unrealistic. It's their dads' money. They want to - they make fun of GIB2D, they want to - they crush citizens. And citizens should, with a united front, sticking out their chests, respond to the intrigues of insolent Saxon imperialism. You are smart enough for me to explain simple things to you. There will be no civil war if measures are taken against individuals whose behavior is UNACCEPTABLE. And I hope that such measures will be taken. Why does the German bourgeois not allow himself more than a glass in Deutschland, but in Russia, in the position of riz, barefoot cuts through the millionth city in an office VAZ-2104? Why permissiveness and connivance? Why didn't the Gaitsy use weapons against Gelend? Didn't you go to the ram? Are they completely helpless? And this is in a state of confrontation with the West, up to the destruction of our SU. The owner of Gelend is not even a capitalist, a well-paid mercenary. What, you can't leave him without work? How can you not cope with the education of personnel? By condoning acts that are detrimental to the authorities, we would rather get a civil war than indicatively whipping a couple of celestials and discouraging the desire to bend the fingers of the rest.
      2. Cat man null
        Cat man null 23 June 2016 11: 34
        0
        Quote: 97110
        Are you delighted to get acquainted with the news about the "son of the vice-president" who broke away from Gaitsov?

        - if "comes off" - they are shitty "gaytsy"

        Quote: 97110
        Do you like sweet couples, where is he in slippers, is she with a song about them? And weddings for lard?

        - personally it ... amuses me, because it never touches me

        Quote: 97110
        This is a real rematch of white bone, blue blood

        - at you some kind of crap you froze .. from what stump the bandyuk + komsomolniki sample of the 90s (beginning of them) = "blue blood"? Do not tell the slippers, they will run away, I won't find ... request

        Quote: 97110
        I’m not joking, I heard from the son of a deputy of the Sovereign Duma public discussions about dividing everyone into slaves and Masters, and that slaves should be thankful to the Masters to the grave board for the opportunity to be humped into Masters

        - OBS. What reasons do I have, for example, to believe you? And, yes, the drunken bazaar is not a "proggamma pagtiya" yet, yes laughing

        Quote: 97110
        And US - NO! While people are suffering, they understand that the enemy is at the gate. How much will they endure?

        - Do not speak for everyone - it’s harmful. UNTIL YOU SHOULD SOMETHING - people work. And try to survive. Right now this is much easier, by the way, than in the 90s (I went through them to their full height, if I have a child of February 90th .. everything is wonderful with a child, yeah)

        In short, license plate - do not drive bullshit ... if possible yes
    2. Ivan Victory
      23 June 2016 11: 21
      0
      I share on ours and not ours ... until ours.
      Are you so tense?
      For example, I do not consider Natsik, Svidomo, Binder, ours ... (or are they ours for you?)
      But they also watch my videos, here by the rules of etiquette, I greet everyone and ...
  5. The comment was deleted.
  6. RUSS
    RUSS 22 June 2016 13: 09
    +5
    Vanka Evil was late with an article about white revenge, since it took place in the 91st year, and the story with the Mannerheim board will be quietly forgotten, as well as the tantrum with the replacement of the Soviet banners and the replacement of the red star with a new dotted one.
    1. masiya
      masiya 22 June 2016 16: 51
      0
      I just don’t understand why the star prevented Shoigu, what kind of mania to remake, good old symbols, then palm branches appear on the caps, as in South America, then the stars of "Captain America" ​​are drawn on our technique, even in combination with a ribbon St. George's, but all the same about what is necessary.?
  7. 97110
    97110 22 June 2016 13: 15
    +4
    Quote: nik-karata
    Both are to blame for the mass killings of Russian people!

    Well, write about whom it is. Allowed by caps. Or is the name of Joseph Vissarionovich vigilantly remembered in a bust? Then do not flicker. If you have something to say, say it. How do you get confidence about the mass killings of Russian people? Of the mass protests of quasi-communists, demonstrating their selfless love to Mikita Sergeich? How many Russian people in your family are each of the two? Beware of being ignorant in politics and economics. And remember the ancients: who benefits?
  8. rumatam
    rumatam 23 June 2016 11: 52
    -1
    Who are you? And Stalin is a historical person. At stake, he himself wouldn’t get you on him from the new masters.
  • viktorrymar
    viktorrymar 22 June 2016 12: 22
    +13
    Museum and Scientific Institute I.V. I fully support Stalin, and Stalingrad on the map should also BE !!!
    1. viktorrymar
      viktorrymar 22 June 2016 12: 33
      +2
      Tell me, who set me a minus, who is against I.V. Stalin and why? I do not care about minus, I'm interested in the opinion of a person who disagrees with me.
      1. razmik72
        razmik72 22 June 2016 12: 49
        -6
        Quote: viktorrymar
        Tell me, who set me a minus, who is against I.V. Stalin and why? I do not care about minus, I'm interested in the opinion of a person who disagrees with me.

        I didn’t give you a minus, but I am against the exaltation of Stalin. It seems that only Stalin fought at the front from the White to the Black Seas.
        1. bovig
          bovig 22 June 2016 14: 04
          +1
          Quote: razmik72
          Quote: viktorrymar
          Tell me, who set me a minus, who is against I.V. Stalin and why? I do not care about minus, I'm interested in the opinion of a person who disagrees with me.

          I didn’t give you a minus, but I am against the exaltation of Stalin. It seems that only Stalin fought at the front from the White to the Black Seas.

          All the people fought for the Victory (not only the soldier you mentioned), except for the traitors, and not only from the White Sea to the Black, but from Brest to Vladivostok, and from Arkhangelsk to Ashgabat, but won thanks to the wise leadership of Stalin. This was a strategist whose greatness was recognized by both our enemies and rivals! And according to your statement, it turns out that it was not the hero who won the battle, but the treasure sword that was put into his hand and defeated the enemy. The head needs to be thought, and not by other parts of the body, then write something intelligible ...
        2. nimboris
          nimboris 23 June 2016 05: 19
          0
          And who else? Roosevelt and Churchill watched from behind a puddle how we bloodied, and in response 10 Stalin’s blows from the White to the Black Sea.
      2. 97110
        97110 22 June 2016 17: 19
        0
        Quote: viktorrymar
        Tell me who gave me a minus,

        Usually there is no answer to such a question. I also asked yesterday - silence.
  • Colonel
    Colonel 22 June 2016 12: 22
    +5
    Time cannot be returned, Tsarist Russia cannot be returned, the Soviet Union cannot be returned.

    It’s for sure, it’s impossible to return, but it is necessary to remember. This is also about the words of Stalin that we remember what the Finns did and what the Finns did not.
  • cth; fyn
    cth; fyn 22 June 2016 12: 26
    +2
    Monument to Vlasov, a memorial plaque to Berezovsky, Solzhenitsen Street, Rezun Square, approx.
    1. reservist
      reservist 22 June 2016 12: 46
      +5
      only the street is available ...
      1. Aleksandr1959
        Aleksandr1959 22 June 2016 14: 55
        +1
        It would be possible to hang a memorial plaque to Goering at the headquarters of the Lipetsk Center.
        Natsik would have been glad. wassat
        1. reservist
          reservist 22 June 2016 15: 08
          0
          and studied there Herbert (and not German) Goering was not marked by anything special ...
        2. cth; fyn
          cth; fyn 22 June 2016 15: 58
          0
          Walk like a walk, give on the Ostankino gobels bust. Laughter through tears, yup.
    2. yehat
      yehat 22 June 2016 14: 59
      0
      Quote: cth; fyn
      plaque to Berezovsky

      present this board
      there lived a man who was a tra ... l youngster, stole AvtoVAZ and fled to England laughing
  • Abbra
    Abbra 22 June 2016 12: 28
    +3
    In general, the oath is taken ONCE. And that's it...
    1. Gardamir
      Gardamir 22 June 2016 14: 01
      +1
      But in fact, the oath is taken ONE time
      right.
      MILITARY Oath
      the USSR



      I, a citizen of the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics, joining the Armed Forces, take the oath and solemnly swear to be honest, brave, disciplined, watchful soldier, strictly keep military and state secrets, unconditionally fulfill all military regulations and orders of commanders and commanders.

      I swear to conscientiously study military affairs, to protect military and national property in every possible way and to be loyal to my People, my Soviet Homeland and the Soviet Government until the last breath.

      I am always ready, by order of the Soviet Government, to defend my Motherland — the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics and, as a soldier of the Armed Forces, I swear to defend it courageously, skillfully, with dignity and honor, without sparing my blood and life itself to achieve complete victory over the enemies .

      If I violate my solemn oath, then let me suffer the harsh punishment of Soviet law, the general hatred and contempt of the working people.

      1. ALEA IACTA EST
        ALEA IACTA EST 22 June 2016 15: 27
        +1
        I, (surname, name, patronymic), solemnly swear allegiance to my Fatherland - the Russian Federation. I swear to observe the Constitution of the Russian Federation, strictly comply with the requirements of military regulations, orders of commanders and commanders. I swear to fulfill the military duty with dignity, courageously defend the freedom, independence and constitutional system of Russia, the people and the Fatherland.
        1. nimboris
          nimboris 23 June 2016 05: 21
          +1
          I took such an oath in the summer of 1999, when I served on conscription in the now defunct border troops.
  • deputy ___ watered
    deputy ___ watered 22 June 2016 12: 28
    +9
    I agree, to perpetuate one of the perpetrators of the siege of Leningrad in the city on the Neva looks like a passive homosexuality of state leaders! I don’t see the logic in opening such a board on the eve of the Day of Remembrance and Sorrow! (
  • Basil50
    Basil50 22 June 2016 12: 38
    +6
    I don’t understand how it’s possible to forgive those who did not ask for forgiveness, understanding what they never forgive. Reference to past merits is possible only with repentance, and here, for the sake of momentary interests, they spat on everyone for whom the memory of the dead is dear. Mannerheim was noted in ethnic cleansing in Finland, and this is also forgotten. The marshal himself was happy that he was not hanged for war crimes, it was only saved that Finland left the war. And now the Nazi memorial? What merit? What was going on in the minds of the initiators of the coven? How to forget what the Finns did with CITIZENS OF THE SOVIET UNION? How to forget concentration camps? The shame of the deed shows that in relation to RUSSIA and to CITIZENS of RUSSIA everything is possible, everything will be forgiven and some will even be awarded commemorative plaques. Who is in line at the * memorial *? What are the Nazis? What are German henchmen?
    In Ukraine, the main character of Bender, and we are still looking for the * main * hero, the opened * memorial * the beginning of the selection of such a * hero * that will suit everyone. So it’s the turn of Hitler, he also has fans.
  • iliitchitch
    iliitchitch 22 June 2016 12: 39
    +6
    What was that ? Gingerbread Finns, as they were enemies, they will be so, and they will eat the gingerbread with pleasure. The tablet doesn’t live long, our people are literate, despite it.
    1. Aleksandr1959
      Aleksandr1959 22 June 2016 15: 01
      0
      Several years ago, some kind of import sociological firm conducted a survey on the attitude of residents of the EU countries to Russia. Two countries were especially negative. Poland and Finland. Moreover, Finland was in the first place.

  • Dr. Vlado
    Dr. Vlado 22 June 2016 12: 39
    +13
    I don’t remember the name of Yeltsin and Gorbachev! They betrayed their homeland! The very idea of ​​at least some praise of them is outrageous. I don’t like vodka, but every year on April 23 I put a bottle on the table. I celebrate this date and commemorate all the dead guys! Young , healthy! Just starting a new life! Also I will never forgive the German nation for the crimes committed! They killed the same young guys! They killed the life! PS: Plaques with the names of traitors must be removed and destroyed! Any Russian ruler will gain recognition by returning the city the name of Stalingrad!
    1. iliitchitch
      iliitchitch 22 June 2016 16: 50
      +2
      Don’t get so excited, colleague. The caravan goes, and pugs are inevitable companions, let them yap. The boys died not in vain, an example of fortitude for young animals.
      And how the ARMY is being restored, it’s kindly expensive to see how you want to call it, but we have a core. Sergey Kuzhugetovich flag in hand. No kazel sticks, scary because they. In any landing barracks they remember the dead soldiers. And it is right .
      Yes, for the first time in many years of the nuclear race, options have appeared for us - we’ll get through any pole. Really 100%. Even in the USSR this was not. Here they are grimy and bouncing - urgently need to fight with us, otherwise a loss. We begin to transcend them. They will answer, scum, for EVERYTHING. And they’re scared to fight, it’s not Iraq. This evil empire must be destroyed.
  • Signore Tomato
    Signore Tomato 22 June 2016 12: 40
    +11
    Nicholas II, Khrushchev, Gorbachev and Yeltsin need to open the "House of Sorrow" for the people they destroyed. And it does not matter, by their action or inaction, they have destroyed millions and tens of millions of people.

    And in honor of Stalin, you need to name the city and open the monuments!

    PS:
    And God forbid that Putin at least slightly reached out to Stalin's Greatness with his deeds ...
    1. iliitchitch
      iliitchitch 22 June 2016 21: 38
      0
      Quote: Signor Tomato
      Nicholas II, Khrushchev, Gorbachev and Yeltsin need to open the "House of Sorrow" for the people they destroyed. And it does not matter, by their action or inaction, they have destroyed millions and tens of millions of people.


      With a hunchbacked country, the country lost more people than during the Great Patriotic War. Not born simply. And I will never vote for the Communists - they shamed the Empire. Sneakily for a Zhirik put a tick, there are simply no other options.
  • Baloo
    Baloo 22 June 2016 12: 50
    +8
    Whether Volgograd is Stalingrad or not is the will of Volgograd residents. To perpetuate the memory of the dead residents and defenders, it would be possible to correctly rename it again to Stalingrad.
    What did Mannerheim do right for Russia? The memorial plaque in his honor is another bunch of liberation. In modern and in the history of Russia in general, there are other more worthy people, collectives, etc. Is there a street of Pskov paratroopers in some city? And the area of ​​trade union Ilizarov. In one regional center, one of the streets was named "Street named after the surgeon Sharonov", who worked all his life in this regional center. What does Mannerheim have to do with it?
    1. reservist
      reservist 22 June 2016 13: 12
      +7
      Quote: Balu
      Is there a street of Pskov paratroopers in any city?
      1. Baloo
        Baloo 22 June 2016 15: 42
        0
        Respect involved in perpetuating the memory of fighters. hi
        In a movie there is a similar story about the deaths of children. But the question is: why was this situation. The version that the command needed all the militants to be drawn into the gorge by all the staff seems to me unconvincing. what
      2. iliitchitch
        iliitchitch 22 June 2016 15: 53
        0
        No, bro, we don't have heroes. Like yes, that's okay. The boys were killed because of the stupid type of "generals", nothing - and any of the bastards sitting in the headquarters answered for this ???
        Ku-ku, no answer. And the real Russian men died, but they halved the creatures.
  • ALEA IACTA EST
    ALEA IACTA EST 22 June 2016 12: 57
    +1
    Everything is in a mess: Mannerheim, "whites", monarchists, Yeltsin, Stalin ...
  • Squirrel has come
    Squirrel has come 22 June 2016 13: 07
    0
    I return Stalingrad for the name (for by this name the people's memory lives, which means real strength in this)
  • Reptiloid
    Reptiloid 22 June 2016 13: 17
    +3
    Something I don’t understand at all, the more I read, the more anger it parses ...
    Allegedly, in order to achieve full reconciliation --- do you need to do these curtsies before the Russian white movement ?? !!! ! And the Finn?
    "Horses, people mingled in a heap" And Yeltsyn --- the center and the mausoleum ...
    And why is it necessary to carry out "de-Stalinization and de-communization", to distort and belittle the assets of the USSR? Or, if some "do not" be "lowered", then others are not "raised"?
    Starikov’s article was before this, another article. I watched the video from different observers .... I DO NOT UNDERSTAND !!!!
    Strongly against tagged, Yeltsin, a board on Zakharya, a mausoleum in blue draperies and other similar innovations, you can’t remember everything from anger!
  • EvgNik
    EvgNik 22 June 2016 13: 25
    +4
    They consider me an outspoken Stalinist on the site. This is not a secret for me. He repeatedly defended Stalin. So there is reason to say - I am not a Stalinist, I am for the fair coverage of history. And if Stalin did much more for Russia than any other ruler, then this should be displayed truthfully. And a monument to him should stand.
    1. Aleksander
      Aleksander 22 June 2016 15: 48
      0
      Quote: EvgNik
      And if Stalin did much more for Russia than any other ruler, then this should be displayed true. And a monument to him should stand.


      The golden word is TRUE! So let's get it right, first, and then (if you want) something like a monument.
    2. Shaber
      Shaber 22 June 2016 22: 25
      -2
      I agree. Here is someone who will say that Peter 1 ruined a few souls or another ruler - no one !!! They just were a long time ago! So it is with Stalin. Need time. Rigidity is not always regarded by people as a blessing. (we were not there and we don’t know anything 100%) and maybe there was no other option (
    3. Shaber
      Shaber 22 June 2016 22: 25
      0
      I agree. Here is someone who will say that Peter 1 ruined a few souls or another ruler - no one !!! They just were a long time ago! So it is with Stalin. Need time. Rigidity is not always regarded by people as a blessing. (we were not there and we don’t know anything 100%) and maybe there was no other option (
  • sergej30003
    sergej30003 22 June 2016 13: 28
    0
    The general was Mannerheim, the Russian army, and then on the monument it is necessary to write all his atrocities that he committed against the Soviet people, it will be fair
  • nik-karata
    nik-karata 22 June 2016 13: 33
    +1
    Quote: 97110
    Quote: nik-karata
    Both are to blame for the mass killings of Russian people!

    Well, write about whom it is. Allowed by caps. Or is the name of Joseph Vissarionovich vigilantly remembered in a bust? Then do not flicker. If you have something to say, say it. How do you get confidence about the mass killings of Russian people? Of the mass protests of quasi-communists, demonstrating their selfless love to Mikita Sergeich? How many Russian people in your family are each of the two? Beware of being ignorant in politics and economics. And remember the ancients: who benefits?


    Speech in the article, dear, about the tablet with Mannerheim and the Kadyrov bridge !!! You need to think !!!
    1. 97110
      97110 22 June 2016 17: 38
      +1
      Quote: nik-karata
      You need to think !!!

      Think. No one is against it. And read carefully all the messages. I am not the only one of your youth and inexperience who pointed out your mistake. Make a conclusion, do not puff your chest.
  • bober1982
    bober1982 22 June 2016 13: 40
    +3
    Mannerheim was never a symbol of the white movement in Russia, it was an enemy for both the Bolsheviks and the whites. The Russian population Mannerheim slaughtered and killed regardless of political views. Therefore, talking about a white revenge or an unknown reconciliation is inappropriate.
    Reasoning of the author: ......And yes, I have the same question for the Russian Orthodox Church ..... very naive and ridiculous.
    1. reservist
      reservist 22 June 2016 13: 51
      +4
      Quote: bober1982
      The Russian population Mannerheim slaughtered and killed, regardless of political views.

      however, there were exceptions ...

      Mannerheim's wife Anastasia Arapova.
      1. bober1982
        bober1982 22 June 2016 14: 05
        -1
        Apparently, the hand did not rise to the baroness.
        1. Basil50
          Basil50 22 June 2016 14: 14
          +1
          Arapova, NOT RUSSIAN roots. However, like the king and the queen.
          1. reservist
            reservist 22 June 2016 14: 58
            +2
            and then what are the roots of the Murom nobles of the Arapovs?
    2. yehat
      yehat 22 June 2016 15: 07
      +2
      Quote: bober1982
      The Russian population of Mannerheim slaughtered and killed regardless of political views. [/ I]

      when is this? In the concentration camps that he built himself, he guarded himself and drank blood at night?
      far away you skidded! And the fact that the Finns are historically very vengeful people, nothing?
      Even a hint that the Finns were offended could create a real bloodbath in tsarist Russia right in Helsinki, especially during the civil war. I would advise you not to attribute indiscriminately blood to people without concrete facts. And it doesn’t matter to anyone - Hitler, Stalin, Zhukov or Manstein or Mannerheim. This simplifies and perverts history. So the real villains are forgotten. So the prerequisites are created to step on the next rake!
      1. bober1982
        bober1982 22 June 2016 16: 41
        +1
        I didn’t understand anything from your comment. When Mannerheim’s troops took Vyborg, slaughtered Russians indiscriminately, attacks on Russian garrisons in Finland (when they were still)
        Hitler, Stalin, Zhukov - why are they dragged on? so indiscriminately?
  • Rosty
    Rosty 22 June 2016 13: 41
    +3
    Quote: Abbra
    In general, the oath is taken ONCE. And that's it...


    He took the oath of the Russian Empire. Finland was part of it, the same part of the Empire. In the USSR, they took the oath to the Union, began to serve in the troops of the Russian Federation - the oaths?

    Mannerheim served his homeland - Finland. Learn the history of the Second World War, about the role of Finnish troops in it, and why after the war with the Finns fruitfully worked and made friends.
    Yes, Mannerheim is the enemy. But the person is talented and honest in his own way, from the word "honor".
    1. Reptiloid
      Reptiloid 22 June 2016 13: 46
      +2
      The country has many honest enemies. And so? There are talents too --- who has what. So what?
  • ingenera
    ingenera 22 June 2016 13: 49
    +1
    Here the author urged to reduce the intensity of passions in the interpretation of history, since this is already History. In the comments, the same "dance on a rake". Well, about "canonization". Martyrdom is not a reason for this. What about those tortured in concentration camps, with the atrocities of Bandera and the like? And Nicholas II consistently led the country and his family to a known result. He is far from holiness. So I think.
    1. yehat
      yehat 22 June 2016 15: 14
      +1
      Nicholas 2 denied ruling the country long before the age of 17. When people realize this fact,
      it will become clear why the empire fell apart. Very similar happened under Brezhnev in 78-82 years. A bunch of factions appeared, who dragged the blanket over themselves and simply tore the country.
      You think why Gorbachev managed to destroy the alliance so easily? Yes, because so many tried behind his back. Sawing power at maximum speed. And there were no people whose concern for the country was in the first place.
  • rotfuks
    rotfuks 22 June 2016 15: 07
    0
    Strange stories are told by the author of the article. The fact that Mannerheim fought with the Red Army, he talks about it. And the fact that it was Mannerheim who first asked for peace and settled the territorial dispute, having given part of the Finnish territory to the SSR, the author is silent about this. Finland took part in the war on the side of Germany, yes. But the Finns did not shoot at Leningrad and entered the territory of the USSR exactly to those territories that they had surrendered in 1940. Does the author also not know about this? And the fact that the Finns did not allow the Wehrmacht to attack Leningrad from its territory, the author does not even guess. And the author also did not hear that the Finns were the first to leave the coalition with Hitler in 1944 and remove the German army from their territory? And the fact that Mannerheim was the first to congratulate Stalin and the entire Soviet people with a victory in the war, the author does not even guess. And the fact that Stalin after the war many times conveyed greetings to Marshal Mannerheim, the author does not even guess. And the fact that for many years Finland was led by Mannerheim as a good neighbor and a decent business partner, the author does not even guess. And the fact that in Finland there are no American bases and NATO troops is this not an argument for you?
    the author, for such a one-sided presentation of information, cut off your fingers on your very palms.
    1. reservist
      reservist 22 June 2016 15: 35
      +2
      Quote: rotfuks
      But the Finns did not shoot at Leningrad

      and they had something to shoot from behind Sestroretsk in Leningrad, so as not to be destroyed by return fire?

      and entered the territory of the USSR exactly to those territories that they surrendered in 1940.

      tell, pls, in what years was Petrozavodsk in Finland?

      for such a one-sided feed ...

      but also not worth distorting
  • Cobra77
    Cobra77 22 June 2016 15: 12
    +1
    There is one point that Ivan clearly does not quite understand. Now there is no attempt to reconcile the red and white.

    Firstly, there are no white people for a long time. White all died in immigration. And their children are no longer Russian and white. They are French, Germans, Americans, etc.

    Secondly, those tsarist officers who sided with the Reds, but for a minute there were a lot of them, were no longer white, they became normal Soviet commanders.

    Thirdly, there was no mention of a white idea, every general or chieftain now classified as white had his own vision and goals. This was mainly the reason for the defeat in the civil war. Because in civil wins the one who goes the people who have clear goals and a strong ideology. White had nothing, no unity, no idea, no goal. What did they offer ordinary people? Crunch french rolls? And this is not enough for victory.

    Fourth, a banal de-Sovietization has been going on for 25 years now, and everything that works in its favor will be used to the fullest by the current government. Because Yeltsin centers for lards, because monuments to Solzhenitsyn, because a plaque to Manerheim, because a monument to Krasnov, because on the memorial to the defenders of Moscow the name of Vlasov, because "historians" defend a thesis on the topic of Vlasov's struggle with a totalitarian scoop, because of repentance to Goebels for Katyn. You can list as many such episodes as you like. You open a modern history textbook for school, what else is needed to understand the situation?

    Fifthly, there will be no civil war in any case. For this, two warring parties are needed. But they are not. If tomorrow there will be a cry to the Red Army, then people will gather before a fig. But on the other hand, there are no one but Gref, Ulyukaev, Medvedev and the rest of Chubais. Yes, there are private armies, but I doubt that they will fight for them in such a situation, that’s not the story. And nat. the guard that is now being intensively created will not help. For it itself consists in many of the same sympathizers with leftist ideas. For Chubais, there is nothing other than stolen money. No idea. Nothing to offer the people. And without it, no one will go to war in the civilian.
  • rotfuks
    rotfuks 22 June 2016 15: 24
    +4
    The newspaper "Pravda". Correspondence with Mannerheim and Stalin
    1. Ivan Victory
      23 June 2016 11: 23
      0
      that is, from this note did you conclude that Mannerheim was a sculptor of Stalin, and he negotiated with him, precisely for this reason, and not for the interests of the country?
      By the way, Putin sent a similar telegram to Obama =) Also, now friends do not spill water?
  • Aleksander
    Aleksander 22 June 2016 15: 31
    +1
    I would like to see a no less huge historical center .... well, like the Yeltsin center .... only about Stalin.


    Let it be! But to HONESTLY! So that ALL the execution lists signed by him, his decisions on dispossession, collectivization, the Great Terror ("Beat, beat and beat!"), The numbers of millions who died of hunger, a map of "great construction projects of socialism" with the camps of "ZK enthusiasts" , demographic charts, production of bread per capita were published along with figures on industrialization, "Appeal to the people", "Toast to the Russian people", etc.

    And let people decide for themselves.

    I made my choice a long time ago.
  • Thomas 1989
    Thomas 1989 22 June 2016 16: 43
    +1
    Well done Vanya !!!! All in the top ten !!! And we must not forget such a "merit" of the white army as the intervention! It is thanks to these "white and fluffy" in Russia there were so many troops of such diverse states, and what is the cost of the hijacking of the Russian combat fleet to France?
  • Ros 56
    Ros 56 22 June 2016 17: 14
    0
    Well, what kind of crap voiced, what other memorable characters. Quite brains for bucks exchanged?
  • alfa19638
    alfa19638 22 June 2016 18: 29
    0
    By such actions one needs to judge who is in power now.
  • Yrsh.2008
    Yrsh.2008 22 June 2016 18: 52
    -1
    Well done Vanya - as they say neither add nor add !!! (although about the Yeltsin center and Gorbachev, in my opinion it’s still too much!)
  • Prince of Pensions
    Prince of Pensions 22 June 2016 19: 00
    +3
    P.S. Regarding this issue of "Vanya Pobeda" I can say that he went a little too far about "Khrustobulok" because the same DENIKIN who was in exile, when emissaries from Vlasov came to him, sent them to ... (of course in literary language) With words, I I regret the Lord that I am not fighting now on the side of the Reds against you ...
    That's who the blood of his fellow citizens did not want to shed more. I understood.
    And now, some would understand.
  • Cobra77
    Cobra77 22 June 2016 19: 59
    0
    Quote: Aleksander
    I would like to see a no less huge historical center .... well, like the Yeltsin center .... only about Stalin.


    Let it be! But to HONESTLY! So that ALL the execution lists signed by him, his decisions on dispossession, collectivization, the Great Terror ("Beat, beat and beat!"), The numbers of millions who died of hunger, a map of "great construction projects of socialism" with the camps of "ZK enthusiasts" , demographic charts, production of bread per capita were published along with figures on industrialization, "Appeal to the people", "Toast to the Russian people", etc.

    And let people decide for themselves.

    I made my choice a long time ago.


    Well, let's reveal the message, otherwise they have listed all the "horrors of Stalinism", but did not disclose. Let's point out exactly what was done and why, what results it brought. Specially describe the millions of people who died of hunger with figures and in comparison with the States of the same period, with RI for the last 25 years of its existence. Do not forget to mention the mortality figures in the USSR in the 30s and RI. Tell us about what was done in 1905-06 in RI. Tell us how many were actually shot during the entire reign of Stalin, and how many were planted. And it would be nice to have similar figures for the States of the same time.

    After that, it will be possible to talk with you about something substantively, and before that, all your hmmmm .... is drawn only to the next post of a moron who studied history on Wikipedia and Solzhenitsyn.
    1. Aleksander
      Aleksander 22 June 2016 22: 56
      +1
      Quote: cobra77
      Well, let's reveal the message, otherwise they have listed all the "horrors of Stalinism", but did not disclose. Let's point out exactly what was done and why, what results it brought. Specially describe the millions of people who died of hunger with figures and in comparison with the States of the same period, with RI for the last 25 years of its existence. Do not forget to mention the mortality figures in the USSR in the 30s and RI. Tell us about what was done in 1905-06 in RI. Tell us how many were actually shot during the entire reign of Stalin, and how many were planted. And it would be nice to have similar figures for the States of the same time.

      Stuck-in the stable.
      All figures are in decrees Thoughts and in open sources, official conviction the state crimes 1920-1953 years - in the resolutions of the Supreme Council of the USSR and Russia. Therefore, the assessment of unrecognized dissent-in the furnace.
      Learn on your own (although this is useless in this case) request
      RI-a free democratic country with a multi-party system, a huge opposition press and jury - unlike the atrocious sadistic dumb dictatorships the Bolshevik junta putschists in the election, with the u.b. troikas, with the stupid "only" Pravda "and the only party.

      Good luck in learning! hi
  • loaln
    loaln 23 June 2016 16: 58
    0
    Both the communists and the bread crust must understand that all periods of our history are important and valuable for the motherland. They can not be thrown out or replayed. They need to be understood and respected. One of the directions of this reconciliation plan is to foster respect for the supreme power in Russia. Therefore, the monument to Nicholas II was opened, and the Yeltsin Center otgrohali. And I think the same will be with Gorbachev after his death. And I agree here. Both Yeltsin, Nikolai the Second, and Gorbachev were the supreme rulers of Russia. We can not ignore it or say that it was not. Yes, these leaders made terrible mistakes, yes, they did more harm than good. But they are part of our story. And treats it carefully and with respect.


    Such a crap will fall on everyone's ears as long as the bearers of these ears will perceive the counter-revolutionary coup in the USSR in the 90s as a kind of lispous phenomenon called "The USSR WASTE".
  • romandostalo
    romandostalo 24 June 2016 11: 21
    0
    It would be nice to burn down the Yeltsin center, but Gorbachev just broke the very line, though he didn’t have any merits before the Motherland !!!