Military Review

An old new problem: brain drain from Russia

211
According to statements by high-ranking representatives of the Russian Academy of Sciences (RAS) in our country, once again, there is a negative trend associated with the departure of representatives of the scientific community for permanent work abroad. This is the so-called “brain drain”, which once (in 90-ies) has already dealt a very painful blow to the scientific and technical sphere of the country, and also to the system of training high-level specialists. Total underfunding (if not to say - complete lack of funding) at one time put Russian science on the brink of survival, which, for obvious reasons, could not help but leave its extremely negative mark on Russia's economic success.


The worrying trend manifests itself again. Last year, President of the Russian Academy of Sciences Academician Vladimir Fortov presented statistics, according to which the outflow of scientists abroad resumed approximately since the autumn of 2013. The President of the Russian Academy of Sciences called the process “painful” such a process.

After the statement of Vladimir Fortov about the resumption of the “brain drain” abroad, Russian Prime Minister Dmitry Medvedev commented on the situation. The epic phrase “there is no money, but you hold on ...” in the premier’s verbal arsenal then did not yet exist, but Dmitry Anatolyevich was already beginning to try on this kind of logic. From Medvedev's statement that he published in 2015 Interfax:
We are currently preparing a number of important decisions, including questions of material incentives, an increase in monthly surcharges for the titles of academicians and corresponding members. This decision will be implemented, despite the fact that now it’s not very easy with money.


As you can see, just over a year ago, “there was almost no money”, but there were promises ... In particular, Medvedev promised that about 350 billion rubles would be allocated to finance Russian science, of which about 115 billion rubles would be allocated to “fundamental” ".

Track the real direction of spending all these funds is almost impossible. There are separate reports of research institutions for government grants for the implementation of fundamental science projects. General reporting, gently and mildly speaking, limping ...

And, as an indirect consequence of the fact that billions of rubles of financing domestic science from the state treasury could go in a completely different direction, new data on the intellectual outflow abroad. Outflow not only does not decrease, but even grows. For example, American The Wall Street Journal writes about a new trend - the purchase by large Western companies of Russian projects and companies along with a working team. So under the jurisdiction of the United States was the Nizhny Novgorod company "Itseez". It was created as the center of research for the so-called computer vision "Argus". The Russian company that gained momentum in 3D-scanning and pattern recognition technologies was noticed in the USA and made an advantageous offer. Now the company's website tells about the achievements of the company exclusively in English ...

Of course, you can talk as much as you like about the fact that scientists (or other representatives of the company) “were led to foreign money”, that they “lacked patriotism” and everything was in the same spirit. However, to think in categories in the style of “whether or not to create new sharashkas in the country” or “introduce a legislative ban on leaving Russia” is very silly. After all, we are building a kind of market ... And to blame a person for being ready to earn a decent life with his talent and work is doubly stupid.

An old new problem: brain drain from Russia


And it is not necessary to dismiss the fact that in the system of domestic science there is a picture in which for every real scientist and for every scientific project in the field of even basic science there is a whole group of parasitizing officials. As a result, it turns out that the ruble allocated for a project, for example, is distributed roughly as follows: 5 kopecks to the scientist for the work, 5 kopecks to cover the costs associated with the work, and 90 kopecks - to the authorities responsible for science what is not denied itself. These same 90 kopecks often include funds to regulatory bodies, which can excuse anyone, by checking the accounting and reporting activities and the requirements for providing a pile of such paper documentation. And even if it were the most progressive project in the Universe, its fate hangs somewhere in the air of bureaucratic cabinets, in which they try to distribute the mentioned 90 kopecks from the ruble for themselves.

In the meantime, the fate of the project hangs, its participants, looking at all this bureaucratic red tape and the desire of the army of crooks to cling to a profitable business, decide to spit on everything and agree to proposals from abroad. And who has less patriotism after that - a serious, in fact, question: the person who made such a decision, or does the one who engages in the corruption scheme destroys the financial basis of domestic science?

The other day, the newly gaining media weight, Alexey Kudrin, made a proposal to stop the brain drain process. A statement by the former finance minister leads RBC:

We need to create more comfortable conditions for the creative class, which today is creating new growth and new technologies, making the country competitive. Today this class is not very comfortable in our country. (...) it is necessary to improve the quality of institutions that ensure the quality of life. If Russia can return to creating such conditions or make significant progress in creating them, then many will return.


Creating the conditions for comfortable and productive labor of scientists in Russia is undoubtedly the most important task. It would be strange to disagree with Kudrin. But in connection with the thoughts voiced above, an equally important task is a set of measures, on the basis of which in the first place in the field there will be a scientist, and not an extensive group of officials of various levels parasitizing on it.
Author:
Photos used:
Twitter
211 comments
Information
Dear reader, to leave comments on the publication, you must sign in.
  1. Teberii
    Teberii 21 June 2016 05: 59
    +4
    I wanted the best, it turned out as always.
    1. The comment was deleted.
    2. siberalt
      siberalt 21 June 2016 06: 48
      +5
      That is why the Bologna system of education was introduced so that smart people would leave. The West does not need to spend money on education. They also come to us mainly in janitors, or in the service sector.
      1. haron
        haron 21 June 2016 09: 17
        +9
        Quote: siberalt
        That is why the Bologna system of education was introduced so that smart people would leave. The West does not need to spend money on education.

        I'm not sure that you are fully familiar with the essence of the "Bologna System". I assure you that it has nothing to do with the brain drain from Russia (unless indirectly - it shows where their brains are most in demand).
        Of course, it has its own nuances, and the main one is that they do not teach anyone from under the stick. To gain knowledge, the student must take the initiative. Everything else in this system works specifically for such a student who seeks, invents and sells his knowledge himself. A lazy genius has become a rarity, because it does not live up to 2-3 years of study.

        In Russia (the former union in general) there are not a few such ambitious and smart ones (some part of the dibile secondary education is screening out), only the demand for their inventions is not fueled.
        1. iConst
          iConst 21 June 2016 15: 29
          0
          Quote: haron
          Quote: siberalt
          That is why the Bologna system of education was introduced so that smart people would leave. The West does not need to spend money on education.

          I'm not sure that you are fully familiar with the essence of the "Bologna System". I assure you that it has nothing to do with the brain drain from Russia (unless indirectly - it shows where their brains are most in demand). ...

          - I agree that the education system itself has little to do with suitcases, otherwise we would have left to study abroad.

          The habitat and the area of ​​application are crucial.

          In the USSR, there were closed scientific towns - a kind of paradise for scientists. To the extent possible (and this was not stinted in some areas) they were given equipment and a field for experiments. I knew such people, now far beyond the retirement age, and discussed this a lot in the 90s.

          Zero crime - there were no "stray" ones behind the thorn with towers. The main task was to feed this "husband" in time, so that he wouldn’t fumigate behind the devices from hunger - they really forgot about food, they worked so enthusiastically.

          Now they fed us the bacillus of money-grubbing, but in reality, recognition and opportunities for self-realization remain the main stimulus for the scientist. This lure our clematis: often immediately give the laboratory and even support staff.
          Money - on the fifth-sixth, etc. location.
        2. Rivares
          Rivares 21 June 2016 15: 56
          0
          Quote: haron
          I'm not sure that you are fully familiar with the essence of the "Bologna System". I assure you that it has nothing to do with the brain drain from Russia (unless indirectly - it shows where their brains are most in demand).
          Of course, it has its own nuances, and the main one is that they do not teach anyone from under the stick. To gain knowledge, the student must take the initiative. Everything else in this system works specifically for such a student who seeks, invents and sells his knowledge himself. A lazy genius has become a rarity, because it does not live up to 2-3 years of study.

          Sorry, but the Bologna system is just a screen. It does not give anything real. They took and abandoned the best Soviet system in the world at once. They stupidly disguised the process of killing science to create a Bologna system that was never introduced. In medicine, the lapdog is still a stillborn puppy. And how democratically with the non-profit training manuals they wrote that the student "sells" his knowledge. Maybe he still uses it for the benefit of himself and his homeland ??
          Another point is that in his homeland with these "academicians" he will not shine ..
          Maybe blindly copy Western systems and paint their non-existent advantages?
      2. Hayer 31
        Hayer 31 21 June 2016 09: 32
        +4
        Uejayut lyudi ne tolko ot malenkoy zarplati, a ot nechesnoy i nespravedlivoy jizni. A v evrope uvajenie k cheloveku nesravnish s Rossii. Esli na Mersedesse to chelovek esli peshkom tagda ......
      3. xetai9977
        xetai9977 21 June 2016 10: 03
        +3
        This is the essence of today's realities.
      4. iouris
        iouris 22 June 2016 13: 22
        +1
        Quote: siberalt
        That is why the Bologna system of education was introduced so that smart people would leave.

        The Bologna system is a bogeyman. "Brains" do not "drain" but are sold. This is the same resource as oil or timber. Many state "officials" received and receive high salaries and other incomes for this.
    3. Suhov
      Suhov 21 June 2016 06: 52
      +13
      Quote: Teberii
      I wanted the best ...

      Do not fool yourself or a respected public:
      The goal, to change life for the better, was not set at the dawn of perestroika.
      And they got exactly what they wanted:
      Destroyed the USSR!
      At the gas station, "academicians" and "professors" have nothing to do,
      There is no work for them there ...
      Yes, and the locals, too, are not needed,
      "Refugees" from the east will work for less money and
      to the great joy of Mr. Kudrin,
      for which in the economy, everything except saving money -
      It’s not clear and, as a result, it’s not interesting.
      hi
      1. sa-ag
        sa-ag 21 June 2016 07: 04
        +4
        Quote: Sukhov
        "Refugees" from the East will work for less money

        The aforementioned work for themselves in America, the Netherlands, in Germany, Britain quite for their comparable salaries, this is me about IT
    4. Alena Frolovna
      Alena Frolovna 21 June 2016 06: 52
      +7


      Brains are flowing away
      Abroad, but a stormy river,
      And they leave the country forever
      With this new unexpected misfortune.

      Not enough engineers already,
      Not enough scientists, doctors.
      No boundaries mean no barriers,
      And nothing really holds people.

      "Brain" leaked for the cordon, in exiles
      He is where London, Brussels and Paris are.

      He’s gone to Israel, to America,
      In Europe, "spread" throughout
      Hid from the Soviet past,
      And he was taken away by a Russian Jew.

      And the problem has ripened in Russia:
      Today, the "brains" - a big deficit!
      And betrayal is a dilemma
      Perhaps the homeland will forgive.

      But - Russia is not impoverished in talents,
      At the same time, it does not lose its prestige ...
    5. carp
      carp 21 June 2016 07: 05
      +22
      As long as the salary of a young lieutenant is several times higher than the salary of a young doctor or graduate student, a brain drain is inevitable. I don’t know any country except Russia, where a novice officer receives much more than a novice doctor. Here the question is in order of priority
      1. Shick
        Shick 21 June 2016 08: 21
        +1
        quite right
        a young officer for such a zp will guard the current government as the apple of his eye, as well as the current police
        raised only to the security forces, and in 2012, so as not to rock the boat
        1. Temples
          Temples 21 June 2016 13: 42
          -3
          As long as the salary of a young lieutenant is several times higher than the salary of a young doctor or graduate student, a brain drain is inevitable.

          The "young lieutenant" (as well as a private and an officer of another rank) gives his life for the peaceful sleep of his compatriots. Including young doctors.

          Leak of young doctors ????? who needed them ????
          Is that to undermine the health of another nation)))))))

          Can you tell us about the leak of young lawyers?
          1. AK64
            AK64 21 June 2016 13: 55
            0
            The "young lieutenant" (as well as a private and an officer of another rank) gives his life for the peaceful sleep of his compatriots. Including young doctors.


            That's just any war in any country, first of all, demonstrates the complete unsuitability of a peaceful officer ...
            As it comes to real life - so "gentlemen officers" are in no hurry to "give their lives" somehow.

            And in peacetime, the strap is pulled somehow without much straining, and hazing is proof of this.
            1. saper2463
              saper2463 22 June 2016 01: 08
              0
              Yes? And you know that there is practically a "competition" among the officers for a business trip to the SAR. And if you consider almost daily, seven days a week, work as relaxation, from 6-7 in the morning to 21-22 in the evening, not stressful ... 45-50 rubles for a lieutenant is not so much. Don't be a fool in civilian life, just as hard working you can earn twice as much.
          2. gladcu2
            gladcu2 21 June 2016 21: 47
            0
            Temples

            Neighing to tears ....

            By nature, who needs lawyers? But doctors, even asses in the nursing home, will be professionally washed, not like doctors, but like nurses. There are enough doctors.
      2. vmo
        vmo 21 June 2016 08: 36
        +5
        And you, a lot is unknown, this is about countries unknown to you, and you were in the shoes of a lieutenant? And we have all seen “great” young and not young doctors.
        1. guzik007
          guzik007 21 June 2016 09: 27
          +10
          And you, very much do not know, this is about countries unknown to you, and you were in the shoes of a lieutenant? And we have all seen “great” young and not young doctors.
          -------------------------------------------------- ------------
          Poor fellow, you were not lucky with the doctors.

          In essence the issue. Why is China not afraid to send 55 students to study in America annually? Because I’m sure all of them will return to their homeland to work.
          Russia annually sends about 5 thousand students (what is the ratio compared to the difference in population, can be calculated), and yells about a brain drain, knowing that hardly 10% will return. Here is what you need to analyze.
          My son graduated from a prestigious university with a technical degree, with two "reds". But he has been looking for work in his specialty for a year already.
        2. dauria
          dauria 21 June 2016 10: 36
          +4
          and you were in the shoes of a lieutenant?


          Here, many were (and I was) in this skin, and in ZabVO.
          And in the USSR they didn’t get that much. Without length of service and term "distant" - 250 rubles. The wife had nowhere to go, family members were not paid for a trip home on vacation. Up to 450 p-500 p - in 5 years on Sakhalin you will reach. (hard workers got more there). Length of service, pension from 40 and, most importantly, lack of housing (to the Urals) kept me. More or less everything was fair.
          Well, now everything should be honest, if you want to keep, pay. Whoever wants to leave, let him pay for free education, free medicine, protection of the army and the police. Has the state spent? Wasted. Kindly return and ride free with a clear conscience. All income taxes that you paid to the treasury are included in this payment. Maybe even the country will have to be such a "genius". laughing
          1. Al1977
            Al1977 21 June 2016 11: 31
            +5
            Quote: dauria
            Whoever wants to leave, let him pay for free tuition, free medicine, protection of the army and the police. Did the state spend?

            And where does the state get this money from? With taxes. If I pay taxes and my son leaves, should I pay again? The second question is, if I, like many of our leaders and friends of Putin, work here and the company is offshore, then they have to pay for medicine and the police?
            And the third, that is, the problem must be solved by prohibitions, fines and requisitions. Really think that THIS is the key to solving the problem. And then all the scientists will work for Russia.
            And did not try to think, why leave? What, only money? Our football players are paid a lot, so they still do not play. Why? Think about it. The head for this is given.
            1. Hon
              Hon 21 June 2016 14: 28
              0
              Quote: Al1977
              And the third, that is, the problem must be solved by prohibitions, fines and requisitions.

              but they don’t know how to do it in our country, and then they wonder why it is running out of the country business (the one whose dad is not the Attorney General), capital, brains.
            2. dauria
              dauria 21 June 2016 15: 47
              -1
              If I pay taxes and my son leaves, should I pay again?


              Why so? They will consider everything to a penny, take into account taxes, pay off the treasury and tablecloth. Maybe you will even be in the black? laughing Right now, half the country is financiers and lawyers who will bring you a debit with a loan (and they will insert their work into the account, they will not forget).
              You do not like prohibitions .... laughing So I assure you, in the United States it is an order of magnitude larger.
              1. AK64
                AK64 21 June 2016 16: 07
                +4
                So I assure you, in the United States it is an order of magnitude larger.


                And how many years have you personally lived in the USA that you know everything so well about the USA?
            3. Rivares
              Rivares 21 June 2016 17: 01
              +1
              Quote: Al1977
              And where does the state get this money from? With taxes. If I pay taxes and my son leaves, should I pay again?

              The son must pay.
              1. AK64
                AK64 21 June 2016 17: 08
                +2
                The son must pay.


                Why is this? For his education Я I pay taxes.

                Do not want to educate my child? Then do not charge me taxes, and nothing more. And I myself somehow.

                The Soviet / Russian state is very fond of deceiving people by talking about "free". There is nothing "free" in this world and has never been - everything was paid for either by taxes or (in the USSR) by the unpaid labor of millions.

                Overall man owes nothing to the state.

                And generally speaking, the state is the enemy of man, a-priory
                1. Rivares
                  Rivares 21 June 2016 18: 43
                  -2
                  Quote: AK64
                  Why is this? For his education, I pay taxes.

                  Because everyone pays taxes for the education of sons and daughters, and not everyone is given a higher education, and not all of those who have been given a higher education leave the people who provided them with this education and work for the benefit of another people. You know what we call them.
                  1. AK64
                    AK64 21 June 2016 18: 56
                    +2
                    Because everyone pays taxes for the education of sons and daughters, and not everyone is given a higher education, and not all of those who have been given a higher education leave the people who provided them with this education and work for the benefit of another people. You know what we call them.


                    Mr. Hamlo Tram,
                    Everyone was given equal rights and opportunities. (although for some it is even more equal - the same Muscovites had a trite advantage on admission.)
                    Rights given. And that’s it.

                    Not used provided? Lazy? Well, go for a walk - this your problemsand they gave you a chance.

                    And according to your bazaar boorish "logic": if a disabled person requires more attention from the medical system, then take more taxes from his parents.

                    Further: as practice shows, which is a criterion of truthfulness, in those countries where education is paid, the graduate is able to return the cost of education in the first five years.
                    (In medicine, usually a little longer, but only because there is a special education and longer and more expensive)

                    There is another very simple aspect: higher education is free in many countries, and not only for its citizens, or for its own + EU citizens, but simply for everyone - even the Zulus.
                    Yes, yes there is.
                  2. Hon
                    Hon 21 June 2016 22: 05
                    0
                    For the good of what people? The fact that officials and their children ate sweetly and drank, we work, the truth must be looked into the eyes.
              2. Hon
                Hon 21 June 2016 22: 07
                0
                Well, let's return the parents and their son will pay.
          2. Hon
            Hon 21 June 2016 14: 23
            +3
            Quote: dauria
            Whoever wants to leave, let him pay for free tuition, free medicine, protection of the army and the police. Did the state spend? Wasted. Be kind, return and drive free with a clear conscience.

            Okay, I'll return it without any problems. just let the state return the taxes paid to me. By the way, I paid for my higher education, I don't use "free" medicine. so monthly personal income tax is withheld from me in the amount of 8126 rubles. per year it turns out 97512, plus an individual entrepreneur of about 100 tr. per year taxes and 36 in the pension, already more than 235 tr. not counting what the employer deducts for me. And what is it that the state gives me 235 a year? while making purchases, I pay VAT and other taxes, while receiving government services, I pay a duty, etc.
            The state throws its citizens, constantly, throws unfair distribution of funds, this is when for Chubais "we have a lot of money" and for indexing pensions "there is no money, but you hold on" it is somehow unfair to calculate how much the state has spent on training a specialist. Even if the specialist is young, his parents also paid taxes, where the state spent these taxes, it prefers not to report.
            1. Cat man null
              Cat man null 22 June 2016 00: 40
              -1
              Quote: Hon
              Okay, I'll return it without any problems. just let the state return the taxes paid to me. By the way, I paid for my higher education, I don't use "free" medicine. so monthly personal income tax is withheld from me in the amount of 8126 rubles. per year it turns out 97512, plus an individual entrepreneur of about 100 tr. per year taxes and 36 in the pension, already more than 235 tr. not counting what the employer deducts for me. And what is it that the state gives me 235 a year? while making purchases, I pay VAT and other taxes, while receiving government services, I pay a duty, etc.

              - You are being guarded (army and police)
              - for you (or not for you personally) energy bridges are built and just Megamosts
              - a spaceport is being built for you
              - for you in the house there is electricity, water, and in the nearest supermarket - the food of your choice according to your means

              This (and much more) can be given only by the state.

              Quote: Hon
              The state is throwing its citizens

              - from this moment on, the conversation is useless. If you are thrown, and you can only complain about it on the internet, there is only one consolation for you: "sucker is fate" (c)
              1. Hon
                Hon 22 June 2016 09: 12
                0
                Quote: Cat Man Null
                for you (or not for you personally), energy bridges are built and just megamosts

                I pay for electricity, I pay at every step for life in the metropolis
                Quote: Cat Man Null
                a spaceport is being built for you

                the cosmodrome was also built on my taxes, while they did not pinch off the construction of the cosmodrome, as did Sochi, when 12 billion estimates turned into 50 billion actually spent money, more than four times stolen from the real cost. The state does not report where and how it lowers my taxes, why should I report to the state how and where I live, and be obliged to the state for something?
                Quote: Cat Man Null
                and in the nearest supermarket - food of your choice according to your means

                By the way, the supermarket was not built by the state, but by business, and this business also flees from the state, withdrawing its capital. And the state only levies taxes on the business, and at the same time, regulation is still climbing over, which actually makes the business leave. This is the way, and our Solntselik spoke.
                Quote: Cat Man Null
                This (and much more) can be given only by the state.

                and people go to states, but to others. Moreover, often scientists, businessmen (those who can really earn money, and not feed on proximity to power), people in high-demand professions that are very necessary in another country, that’s why they leave because they are needed.
                Quote: Cat Man Null
                - from this moment on, the conversation is useless. If you are thrown, and you can only complain about it on the internet, there is only one consolation for you: "sucker is fate"

                But after all, many do not sting, but leave, who eventually remains with a nose? those who left? I doubt they are in demand and provided.
                Now there is a lot of talk about graphene, the material is really unique and promises new opportunities, already now a lot of it is being made, it was created in London by graduates of the Moscow Institute of Physics and Technology who have no longer Russian citizenship. So it is Russia that can comfort itself, and they are great and demanded scientists, whose discoveries are used by the whole world. But we have Chubais and he has "A lot of money" laughing
                1. Cat man null
                  Cat man null 22 June 2016 13: 03
                  0
                  Quote: Hon
                  I pay for electricity, I pay at every step for life in the metropolis

                  - nude ...
                  - the prices of transport, electricity, food, communal services in Russia and the same, for example, Sweden - take an interest. I will amuse you, I assure you.
                  - and it’s not necessary that salaries there are much higher. There taxes ... much higher (in memory - income can reach 55%. Salaries are not sky-high)

                  Quote: Hon
                  a supermarket, by the way, was not built by the state, but by business

                  - yeah, exactly ... but the business lives on its own, in the remote taiga, and no state has rested against it
                  - stop ... there will be no state - any business will die almost simultaneously

                  Quote: Hon
                  and people go to states, but to others

                  - always left. Even, be surprised, under the USSR (then - under the guise of "reparation")
                  - units leave, which, in fact, "does not (strongly) affect the speed"
                  - just from some moment it became fashionable to yell about it in the press. "Delicious topic", so to speak

                  Quote: Hon
                  But after all, many do not sting, but leave, who eventually remains with a nose? those who left? I doubt they are in demand and provided

                  - an example from my life: the guys from my course (the guy is theorophysics, the girl is the physics of metals), they were dumped into the states in the 80s
                  - total: the guy works ... sometimes (from contract to contract), the girl is a programmer ... in prison belay
                  - the guys are far from stupid, and the university is not the last
                  - I know many similar examples. Somehow ... I haven't seen examples of "crushing successes"

                  Quote: Hon
                  But we have Chubais and he has "A lot of money"

                  - So I personally do not put Chubais. Criss-cross. But you don’t, and that’s the difference. I live, not Nov And you - from the offended. But also - do not leave (see, not much in demand), prefer whining.

                  Not good. Ugly negative
                  1. Hon
                    Hon 22 June 2016 15: 13
                    -1
                    [quote = Cat Man Null]
                    - nude ...
                    - the prices of transport, electricity, food, communal services in Russia and the same, for example, Sweden - take an interest. I will amuse you, I assure you.
                    - and it’s not necessary that salaries there are much higher. There taxes ... much higher (in memory - income can reach 55%. Salaries are not sky-high)

                    take an interest in quality of services. in Moscow the fare costs 50 r, but the bus is better than in other regions where the passage is 10-15 r.
                    Do you say taxes above? and even higher social guarantees, i.e. support for the poor. in addition, about taxes, in order to pay 100 rubles to an employee, the employer must give 130 rubles. since 100 rubles of deductions, plus 30% of personal income tax, are added to 13 rubles of salary, the employee gets 87 rubles in his hands, and the state 43 rubles. despite the fact that salaries that are considered large in our country are not taxed in Europe, because by their standards they are too small for taxation. Go ahead, housing. It is cheaper in Europe, of course, if you do not take cities such as Paris or London, but they also had parity with Moscow at prices. Something was a little more expensive, something cheaper than ours, clothes too, cars before the ruble depreciated were half as much, household appliances and electronics too, mortgages 1-4% per annum. And a vitogue, even with expensive communal services and gasoline, took less to live in Europe than in Russia, but it’s another thing that they buy more expensive housing with a larger footage, cars of a higher class, better products, etc.
                    But for some reason, business is also fleeing from the country. Capital is being withdrawn; nobody is in a hurry to invest in new projects. Of course, there are those who have very good earnings (I do not mean a salary) in Russia whom they will never have in any other country, such as the Rotenbergs or Yuri Chaika. and the state looks at the rest of the business like a cash cow.
                    [quote = Cat Man Null] always left. Even, be surprised, under the USSR (then - under the guise of "reparation")
                    - units leave, which, in fact, "does not (strongly) affect the speed"
                    - just from a certain moment it became fashionable to yell about it in the press. "Delicious topic", so to speak [/ quote]
                    Of course, only a few, but no one leaves, neither scientists are programmers, nor businessmen. Yes, everything is fine, the main thing is to believe in it ... and if you look at the number of people, the RSFSR and the Russian Federation today, doesn’t it bother you?
                    [quote = Cat Man Null] an example from life: the guys from my course (the guy is theoretical physics, the girl is the physics of metals), in the 80s they were dumped in the states
                    - total: the guy works ... sometimes (from contract to contract), the girl is a programmer ... in prison
                    - the guys are far from stupid, and the university is not the last
                    - I know many similar examples. Somehow ... I haven't seen examples of "crushing successes" [/ quote]
                    why don’t they come back, because there is still no normal work there? or is it better to work there with bad work than in the homeland with good work? Do you earn more than these guys?
                    it’s okay in the 80s when the USA seemed to be in the sky with diamonds, but now they’re going clearly knowing why and in what conditions. It’s just that you don’t get a residence permit, the two most common ways to legally immigrate, or to have a profession that is in demand there, and in fact a person leaves already provided with work there, or to buy a business there, and this is far from the poorest sections of the population.
                    1. Cat man null
                      Cat man null 22 June 2016 22: 53
                      +1
                      Quote: Hon
                      in Moscow, the fare costs 50 r, but the bus is better than in other regions where the passage is 10-15

                      - to me personally, exactly on the "quality" of the mafinka, which in one hour will take me somewhere, where to go with my feet .. so 10 hours, huh?

                      Quote: Hon
                      about taxes, in order to pay 100 rubles to the employee, the employer must give ...

                      - I do not care how much my employer will pay there. We usually agree on the amount on hand. Next - this is him, the robotator (!), Problems

                      Quote: Hon
                      salaries that are considered large in our country do not take taxes in Europe, because by their standards they are too small for taxation

                      - mdya laughing
                      - "by their standards, they are too small" - where, country, amount, percentage of tax? I can do Trepatso too, yeah ...

                      Quote: Hon
                      housing in Europe is cheaper, of course, if you do not take cities such as Paris or London

                      - do not make me fun. How much does it cost to rent a kopeck piece in Moscow now? And the same in Chovda (Sweden, Skovde)? Communal here and there - compare, play around laughing
                  2. Hon
                    Hon 22 June 2016 15: 14
                    0
                    Quote: Cat Man Null
                    - So I personally do not put Chubais. Criss-cross. But you don’t, and that’s the difference. I live, not Nov And you - from the offended. But also - do not leave (see, not much in demand), prefer whining.

                    Yes, I’m in demand, because I don’t leave, I just don’t like to pay taxes on the parasite’s fattening, and then they’ve also been seen by the state and obliged to be. I pay for everything, and I don’t see anything for free, and I don’t have to show parasites in the state’s leadership, but the parasite, by definition, cannot be useful.
                    1. Cat man null
                      Cat man null 22 June 2016 23: 13
                      +1
                      Quote: Hon
                      Yes, I’m in demand, so I’m not leaving

                      - my congratulations

                      Quote: Hon
                      do not like to pay taxes on the feeding of parasites, and then still the witnesses and obliged to be the state

                      - stop. Something for "taxes on the feeding of parasites"? I do not know such belay
                      - You will always be bound by the state. Moreover, it does not depend on the state that you currently have chosen for life request

                      Quote: Hon
                      I pay for everything, and I don’t see anything free, and I don’t have to show me, like the state cares

                      - tell someone the thread in Evzhope that you pay less than a hundred bucks a month for a communal apartment. Look at the reaction laughing
                      - The state, as a system, takes care of itself exactly. But, since you are part of the system, it is forced to take care of you too. I get it? wink

                      Quote: Hon
                      a parasite by definition cannot be useful

                      - repeat school biology. There was the term "symbiosis" exactly yes
        3. Maksus
          Maksus 21 June 2016 17: 35
          0
          Quote: vmo
          And you, a lot is unknown, this is about countries unknown to you, and you were in the shoes of a lieutenant? And we have all seen “great” young and not young doctors.

          Well, I was in the shoes of a "young lieutenant" and a "young doctor" in one person. Everything was so-so. And now I am a doctor with 10 years of experience, I get less years. Only every day I still encounter the bestial attitude of our people.
          1. Hon
            Hon 22 June 2016 09: 52
            +2
            Quote: Maksus
            Well, I was in the shoes of a "young lieutenant" and a "young doctor" in one person. Everything was so-so. And now I am a doctor with 10 years of experience, I get less years. Only every day I still encounter the bestial attitude of our people.

            because the point is not that letekha has more, but that doctors are paid undeservedly little, these earnings do not correspond to the level of work and education.
      3. Vladimir71
        Vladimir71 21 June 2016 09: 15
        +3
        Here the question is in order of priority

        And not only priorities, stuck mediocrity or simply out of their minds "grief scientists" do not give way to young talented, but in addition they also appropriate other people's ideas. Here are inquisitive minds and are looking for where you can self-actualize and, as a result, the financial side of the problem. To our great regret. That is where it would not hurt to conduct an independent audit, do not spare the money and will be rewarded ...
      4. alexej123
        alexej123 21 June 2016 13: 11
        +1
        Until recently, the lieutenant's salary was "laughing chickens." Everybody said when the military will receive "like in the West"? Increased wages and more, the housing issue is being resolved. Now screams are heard, why do the military get so much? First, decide whether we will feed our army or someone else's? And in Israel, a lieutenant receives less than a young medic? Do not take private clinics, in Russia their salaries are also at the same level. Take the government, including the US for comparison. And you will be surprised the same. Only there you will not shout about it. As not with the flag of Israel, they want to do everything in shit. If you are comparing, then do it reasonably, otherwise you shouted nonsense and sit satisfied with yourself.
        1. Maksus
          Maksus 21 June 2016 17: 40
          +2
          I have a medical salary with 10 years of DOCTOR and 16 medical experience less than a salary in McDonalds. What are you talking about? How else should I raise my level in order to live as a person? And not working in three jobs?
      5. Lt. Air Force stock
        Lt. Air Force stock 21 June 2016 13: 17
        -1
        Quote: carpag
        salary of a young doctor

        First you need to improve the professional level of doctors, and then pay them well. And then you can say personally familiar with the disregard of the doctors to patients, and quite serious cases.
      6. Hon
        Hon 21 June 2016 14: 04
        +2
        Quote: carpag
        As long as the salary of a young lieutenant is several times higher than the salary of a young doctor or graduate student, a brain drain is inevitable. I don’t know any country except Russia, where a novice officer receives much more than a novice doctor. Here the question is in order of priority

        the lieutenant’s salary does not in any way affect brain drain. From how much the lieutenant receives, the doctor or graduate student is neither cold nor hot. It is important for them how much they earn.
      7. Rivares
        Rivares 21 June 2016 16: 53
        0
        Quote: carpag
        I don’t know any country except Russia, where a novice officer receives much more than a novice doctor. Here the question is in order of priority

        So enlighten. Most of Europe. Young doctors work for free in all kinds of charitable organizations, for free they treat and gain experience. As in a joke, hello without a paid doctor, hello a hopelessly sick patient))
        In life-threatening conditions, I would also prefer to buy ammo rather than cold pills.
        1. Maksus
          Maksus 21 June 2016 18: 24
          +2
          They work as volunteers until they finish residency, then all roads are open. Do not smack nonsense.
          1. AK64
            AK64 21 June 2016 18: 36
            +1
            They work as volunteers until they finish residency, then all roads are open. Do not smack nonsense.


            In-in. Only not "nonsense" but outright lies.
            Usually they have a year old intern, which is considered "work practice" and is part of the "work training".

            And even this is far from all, but only and only from specialists (surgeons and the like). And "Ji-Pi" - that is, "local therapists", those generally have 4-5 years of theory and forward, to practice and 90-150K per year.

            (The salary, of course, varies greatly from country to country. But let’s say in Ireland I paid 40 Euros for a visit. A visit is somewhere on average 20 minutes. Evaluate the income yourself. And without a visit, you can’t even buy antibiotics. And a specialist is also a pideater - 130 euros per visit. This is not from the Odessa infa market - this is what he paid five years ago)
          2. Rivares
            Rivares 21 June 2016 19: 03
            +2
            Quote: Maksus
            They work as volunteers until they finish residency, then all roads are open. Do not smack nonsense.

            Quote: AK64
            And even this is far from all, but only and only from specialists (surgeons and the like). And "Ji-Pi" - that is, "local therapists", those generally have 4-5 years of theory and forward, to practice and 90-150K per year.

            Naive Chukchi youth)))
            Having received a diploma, the doctor begins to look for work on his own. The first stage is Arztim Praktik (AIP) - a medical practitioner, in this position he must work for 18 months. The salary here is very small, it is enough only for a very modest life. If the doctor has worked well this period, he rises to the next stage - an assistant. He has been paid more than 2 times more. But he also searches for this position on his own, sending out resumes throughout the country.

            Having worked as an assistant for 4-5 years, the doctor may try to pass an exam for a specialty. This exam is taken by an independent panel of experts, it is very complex, contains both educational and written sections. Not many manage to pass it the first time. Thus, the German doctor needs to constantly learn and improve his knowledge. The doctor who passes the exam receives a license and can become a senior doctor or open a private practice.
            http://www.medicum.nnov.ru/nmj/2002/2/33.php
      8. Cat man null
        Cat man null 22 June 2016 00: 30
        +1
        Quote: carpag
        As long as the salary of a young lieutenant is several times higher than the salary of a young doctor or graduate student, a brain drain is inevitable. I don’t know any country except Russia, where a novice officer receives much more than a novice doctor. Here the question is in order of priority

        - Well, in the USSR, in fact, it was exactly the same
        - but in the USSR the brain drain was hampered by the "closed system"
        - I personally would not think about the "order of priorities", but about the restoration of the Soviet system of "distribution" of specialists. With forced labor by this specialist for a certain period (several years) at the place of distribution
        - this, however, does not mean that a novice doctor should receive less than a janitor-guest worker

        That's something like yes
    6. Alena Frolovna
      Alena Frolovna 21 June 2016 08: 55
      +2
      In a difficult hour, leaving his father’s shelter,
      The fugitives rush abroad.
      They call it all "brain drain".
      Only suddenly it's just a drain of fools,
      But the brains just remain?

      Eduard Asadov
      1. Lt. Air Force stock
        Lt. Air Force stock 21 June 2016 09: 57
        +10
        Because in the West they pay, but we do not. Take for example programmers, we don’t take everyone, but for example those who work in silicon valley, so they have a salary of hundreds of thousands of dollars a year. And we have a penny.
        A doctor in the USA, a surgeon receives $ 250000 a year. Surely the same thing in the technical environment, a successful design engineer there receives simply disproportionate money compared to Russia. We do not even get plant directors as much as successful engineers, designers, etc. in the West.
        I have a familiar design engineer working at the plant for the design and modernization of machine tools, age under 30, salary 25 thousand rubles a month.

        In Russia, for 40 thousand rubles in the regions, you will spend the night at work, you will be tormented by nerves, etc., and in the West you will receive between 3-5 thousand dollars (190-318 thousand rubles per month) and work measuredly. In Russia, not only are disproportionate salaries compared to the West, but the money that they pay is much harder to give, people really die at work from a heart attack stroke, and other chronic diseases.
        1. Al1977
          Al1977 21 June 2016 11: 39
          +1
          Quote: Lt. air force reserve
          Because in the West they pay, but we do not.

          Football players are paid too, but there is no game. It's not just about money.
          1. Lt. Air Force stock
            Lt. Air Force stock 21 June 2016 11: 42
            +2
            Quote: Al1977
            Football players are paid too, but there is no game. It's not just about money.

            It’s just the money, the football players are furious, they don’t really have to try hard, no one will fire them from football.
            And half of the country is barely making ends meet, due to lack of money. It is not life, but survival, from paycheck to paycheck, many take loans on enslaving terms only to hold out.
        2. sherp2015
          sherp2015 21 June 2016 12: 11
          -1
          Quote: Lt. air force reserve
          In Russia, for 40 thousand rubles in the regions, you will spend the night at work, you will be tormented by nerves, etc., and in the West you will receive between 3-5 thousand dollars (190-318 thousand rubles per month) and work measuredly. In Russia, not only are disproportionate salaries compared to the West, but the money that they pay is much harder to give, people really die at work from a heart attack stroke, and other chronic diseases.

          Well, not the people to blame for this, but our beloved government
          1. Kenneth
            Kenneth 21 June 2016 12: 37
            -1
            The people have the government that has it.
          2. Rivares
            Rivares 21 June 2016 17: 05
            +1
            Quote: sherp2015
            Well, not the people to blame for this, but our beloved government

            The liberal that worked in 90. But for some reason they accuse Putin)))
          3. Cat man null
            Cat man null 22 June 2016 00: 52
            +2
            Quote: Lt. air force reserve
            In Russia, for 40 thousand rubles in the regions you will spend the night at work, you will be tormented by nerves, etc., and in the West you will receive between 3-5 thousand dollars (190-318 thousand rubles per month) and work measuredly

            - where is such beauty - $ 5000 a month for "measured work"?
            - prices for an apartment / groceries / transport / other - there, too, as in the Russian Federation (already I am laughing with a horse)
            - Of these 5000 - how much will you have after taxes?

            Damn ... someone - I beg you, shut up this under-lieutenant ... he’s lying like he’s eating, and he’s not blushing, bastard
        3. Rivares
          Rivares 21 June 2016 17: 04
          +1
          Quote: Lt. air force reserve
          In Russia, not only are disproportionate salaries compared to the West, they also pay much harder money, people really die at work from a heart attack stroke, and other chronic diseases.

          But as soon as Russia took steps in order to fix this, it was called a threat to peace (American). In the states, they get it because they get less in Russia and other countries.
    7. My doctor
      My doctor 21 June 2016 11: 25
      0
      Until then, Russia in development has lagged behind the West, smart people with the opportunity to leave it. Apparently the motive is that they did not immediately become who they are in the scientific field, but they walked for a long time and purposefully from the school bench. So ask yourself what motivated them, because this is not an easy job? If they were driven by a desire to stand out from the crowd and have a better chance of a better life for themselves and their loved ones? That is the most obvious way out - to live where it is easiest to achieve.
      But there is another point of view heard from the mathematician A. Vinogradov in the program of A. Gordon. He then compared for example that the cost of one tank can contain the entire mathematical branch of science in the country.
      1. Lt. Air Force stock
        Lt. Air Force stock 21 June 2016 11: 34
        0
        Quote: MyVrach
        Apparently the background is that they did not immediately become who they are in the scientific field, but they walked for a long time and purposefully from the school bench. So ask yourself what motivated them, because this is not an easy job?

        Most scientists do not appear from scratch, as a rule they are whole dynasties, for example, a father or mother was engaged in science, their son or daughter is following in their footsteps, sometimes under the patronage of their parents.
        For example, if you take Durov (the founder of the social network Vkontakte), then his dad was not an ordinary person.
        Doctor of Philology Valery Semenovich Durov, author of many scientific works, since 1992 he has been head of the Department of Classical Philology of the Faculty of Philology of St. Petersburg State University.
        1. AK64
          AK64 21 June 2016 12: 16
          +1
          Most scientists do not appear from scratch, as a rule they are whole dynasties, for example, a father or mother was engaged in science, their son or daughter is following in their footsteps, sometimes under the patronage of their parents.
          For example, if you take .....


          Stop telling fairy tales to the people. "Perelman" is rather an exception. Take Ivan Pavlov better. Or the same Lomonosov.

          Science has already become an industry (in the west), that is, it has taken industrial forms. What kind of "dynasties" can there be with an essentially explosive expansion?

          1. Lt. Air Force stock
            Lt. Air Force stock 21 June 2016 12: 40
            0
            Quote: AK64
            Stop telling fairy tales to the people. "Perelman" is rather an exception. Take Ivan Pavlov better. Or the same Lomonosov.

            I’m talking about modernity and about modern scientists. Many young scientists whose dad is a trucker and mom is a cook? Little. As a rule, either father or mother worked in science and their child followed in their footsteps.
            Quote: AK64
            Science has already become an industry (in the west), that is, it has taken industrial forms. What kind of "dynasties" can there be with an essentially explosive expansion?

            I’m talking about Russia, not the West.
            1. AK64
              AK64 21 June 2016 12: 53
              0
              I’m talking about modernity and about modern scientists. Many young scientists whose dad is a trucker and mom is a cook? Little.

              What is your degree that you know all this so well? And what is the academic title?

              So: "scientific dynasties" are an exception. It is simply impossible due to the explosive exponential growth of science.

              As a rule, either father or mother worked in science and their child followed in their footsteps.

              \ with enthusiasm \
              And yet you know about us!

              I’m talking about Russia, not the West.

              In the USSR there was exactly the same exponential expansion.

              Of course, I can ask my graduate student who her mom is dad. But what is not scientists - that's for sure (she once showed pictures). I can ask the others as well --- though they are by no means Russian, and generally local. But even there, as far as I know, NOT ONE scientist is observed in parents.

              Will you insist further?
              1. Lt. Air Force stock
                Lt. Air Force stock 21 June 2016 13: 00
                +1
                Quote: AK64
                What is your degree that you know all this so well? And what is the academic title?

                I graduated from a research institute and saw who goes to graduate school. My grandmother has a candidate of agricultural sciences (my grandmother used to work at a nuclear research institute at the same time as Chkalov lived on), a new variety of poppy was bred. Therefore, I have an idea.
                I didn’t go to graduate school myself (graduate + graduated from the military department), because there are 1-2 places on the budget, and it costs 500 minimum for a fee, I'd rather save money on an apartment than I will go to graduate school.
                1. AK64
                  AK64 21 June 2016 13: 30
                  0
                  I graduated from a research institute and saw who goes to graduate school. My grandmother has a candidate of agricultural sciences (my grandmother used to work at a nuclear research institute at the same time as Chkalov lived on), a new variety of poppy was bred. Therefore, I have an idea.
                  I didn’t go to graduate school myself (graduate + graduated from the military department), because there are 1-2 places on the budget, and it costs 500 minimum for a fee, I'd rather save money on an apartment than I will go to graduate school.


                  / sighing /
                  I see you are stubborn.

                  Of the graduate students with whom I had to deal (my own and "neighbors"), there was NOT a SINGLE "hereditary" one. (At least "Russian", at least "not Russian".)
                  But I’m lying - there was, there was one Japanese, his dad was a professor.

                  Of the graduate students that my friends in Russia have to deal with, of which I know about, there is not a single hereditary one either.

                  Among my friends and acquaintances, that is, people of my own age, "hereditary" are found - somewhere around 5-10% of the composition.

                  That is, we can only say that “under the existing system of distributing budget places for graduate students in the Russian Federation, there is a significant share of nepotism and nepotism - that is, they give their". But only.
                  That is, it is not a question of "who is walking." This is the question "who is in the RF give go"
                  1. Rivares
                    Rivares 21 June 2016 17: 32
                    0
                    Quote: AK64
                    Of the graduate students that my friends in Russia have to deal with, of which I know about, there is not a single hereditary one either.

                    What is the area where you work? In medicine, the exact opposite.
                    1. AK64
                      AK64 21 June 2016 18: 14
                      0
                      What is the area where you work? In medicine, the exact opposite.


                      In clinical medicine, or in medical science? These are still very different things.

                      That children of doctors go to medicine is understandable. But do they go to medical science?
                      Moreover, however, it seems that the opposite is claimed: that everyone who goes to medicine is the children of doctors.
              2. Rivares
                Rivares 21 June 2016 17: 18
                -1
                Quote: AK64
                Of course, I can ask my graduate student who her mom is dad. But what is not scientists - that's for sure (she once showed pictures). I can ask the others as well --- though they are by no means Russian, and generally local. But even there, as far as I know, NOT ONE scientist is observed in parents.

                Oh fooling, scoundrel! Why do you look at graduate students so that you can look away?
                Graduate students are consumables. They are like soldiers in the army, of whom few will become officers)) Graduate students are not scientists, like soldiers are not officers))
                All successful scientists (and any specialists) are pulling their children into the same area. They know all the entrances and loopholes, so they use it.
                I can present live examples) Take an interest in someone about under whose strict guidance, for example, the daughter of Boqueria works)))
                1. The comment was deleted.
                2. AK64
                  AK64 21 June 2016 20: 52
                  0
                  About apples

                  Well isn’t it funny that the boor who wrote to me publicly this:
                  Oh fooling, scoundrel!

                  That is, publicly switched to boorish YOU, and who called me "scoundrel" --- while also ran to complain about the administration: you see, it turns out that I "insulted" him, directly calling in reply boor (which, as it is not difficult to verify, he is)

                  That is not only a boor, but also a snitch.

                  Registered in the emergency
            2. Maksus
              Maksus 21 June 2016 18: 29
              0
              Quote: Lt. Air Force stock

              I’m talking about modernity and about modern scientists. Many young scientists whose dad is a trucker and mom is a cook? Little. As a rule, either father or mother worked in science and their child followed in their footsteps.

              But I don’t know that at all. You know the saying: oranges will not be born from aspen. In order for a person to seriously (and not for the proud title of Candidate of Sciences) decide to get a degree, the environment in which he grows must play a role. If all that a child sees is a dad drinking vodka and a mother who cries forever plus an addict brother and a slut sister, he is unlikely to want to study the properties of pulsars)
              1. AK64
                AK64 21 June 2016 18: 41
                0
                the environment in which he grows must play a role.


                Yeah. Lomonosov as an example. Or Ivan Pavlov. And at least the Vavilov brothers.
        2. The comment was deleted.
    8. Vasiliy16
      Vasiliy16 21 June 2016 21: 23
      0
      Again the blame for the Medvedev.
      But Putin has nothing to do with it again.
    9. iouris
      iouris 22 June 2016 13: 19
      0
      There is a new problem in Russia: the "brain drain" along bad roads.
  2. dmi.pris
    dmi.pris 21 June 2016 06: 01
    +30
    Is it weak to entice the best minds to yourself, or do you keep money bags in a state of mediocre football players?
    1. aba
      aba 21 June 2016 06: 11
      +29
      Is it weak to lure the best minds to yourself?

      It is better to attend to the training of the best minds on the spot, and with the reform of education soon you will have to turn the turners and locksmiths, and not the best minds.
      1. dmi.pris
        dmi.pris 21 June 2016 06: 24
        +3
        Already worried, the Unified State Examination in action (a government education program designed to overspending budget money, not to mention the worst). How many people, funds are diverted every year to this madness .. And graduates sometimes can’t take root from a hundred
        Quote: aba
        Is it weak to lure the best minds to yourself?

        It is better to attend to the training of the best minds on the spot, and with the reform of education soon you will have to turn the turners and locksmiths, and not the best minds.
      2. moskowit
        moskowit 21 June 2016 06: 28
        +1
        And it’s already a long time ago, time to call ...
        1. Igor39
          Igor39 21 June 2016 06: 56
          +1
          Where they pay more, they run there. L-logic.
          1. Hayer 31
            Hayer 31 21 June 2016 09: 40
            +1
            Uroven talerantnosti i vaspitanie grajdan igraet balshuju rol, ne tolko dengi. V evrope Platyat nu 30-50% bolshe chem v Rassii, no jit v evrope uchennomu legche i interessnee chem v Rassii ili postsavetskom prastranstve.
      3. kalibr
        kalibr 21 June 2016 06: 56
        +7
        The best minds will be enough for us even with our training system, but scientists need to pay, but not 15 thousand as now the assistant professor’s rate. Without victories in football, we will somehow live. Without scientists, there will be a hitch. We will teach them, and they will leave ...
        1. AK64
          AK64 21 June 2016 09: 34
          +1
          The best minds will be enough for us even with our training system, but scientists need to pay, but not 15 thousand as now the assistant professor’s rate. Without victories in football, we will somehow live. Without scientists, there will be a hitch. We will teach them, and they will leave ...


          Vecheslav, you’re not a scientist, and you don’t understand ANYTHING.
          "15 thousand", yeah ...

          Are there only salaries? A kurandashiki buy there, a piece of paper?

          one refueling of cartridges in equipment - 30 thousand euros. It is necessary to refuel, depending on the intensity of the experiments, about 2 times a month. Ie 60 thousand per month ONE installation eats --- and there are 3-4 of them in a normal lab. And by themselves they cost five millionths.

          No, well, you can, of course, in the old fashioned way, with pens, pens ... Only then you will instantly find yourself behind not only the whole of Europe, but even some Mexico.

          And the attitude of society: how are scientists now treated in the Russian Federation? "some kind of loser." Who wants to be an idiot and a loser? This alone is enough to go to where you are respected.
          1. kalibr
            kalibr 21 June 2016 09: 45
            0
            Yes, you are right Sergey, science requires money in the sense of payment for devices and capacitors. But 15 thousand p. it’s not money in your hands either, right? But salary is also an important thing. After all, someone once taught you and did not always teach you on devices. It is unlikely that the philosopher needed them. But he would not refuse a decent salary.
            1. AK64
              AK64 21 June 2016 09: 55
              +2
              But salary is also an important thing. After all, someone once taught you and did not always teach you on devices. It is unlikely that the philosopher needed them. But he would not refuse a decent salary.


              Science today, not yours, My Dear Sir, digging in pieces of paper, namely science, has already switched to industrial methods. That is, "brute force", which will always overtake even the most talented single artisan. You buy five installations of 5 million each, hire 6-8 graduate students - and for three years this provides you with NORMAL progress. And any reasonable middle peasant will overtake a lone genius with an ancient microscope.

              Science is no longer the occupation of bored gentlemen. This is an industry already. And meaning industrial approaches are needed.

              So against the background of these salary expenses, the professors already have a penny.

              15 tons of rubles is 300 euros or what? What do you live on?
              1. kalibr
                kalibr 21 June 2016 11: 30
                0
                Yours, Sergey, is ours to us! It is difficult to put work in the archives and digging in the earth on an industrial basis. Then graduate students are not a panacea. Someone forgot to wash the tube - this is the result. And this happens. In addition, we decide what to give to whom, nevertheless, we, haha, because we can convince the powers that be that it is good for them. That's why I switched from history to teaching PR because it is ... more interesting, although it is not considered a science. It’s just very nice to manipulate people, and even pay you for it.
                And personally, I find money in the "inkwell". These are articles, books, grants from the Russian Humanitarian Science Foundation, and ... payment for PR and advertising. A little bit of everything, even enough to go abroad.
                1. AK64
                  AK64 21 June 2016 12: 25
                  +2
                  Yours to you, Sergey, is ours to us! It is difficult to put work in the archives and digging in the earth on an industrial basis.


                  That's why I'm talking about science. What you, sorry, do not Science: she is at the Faculty of Arts.
                  Well, after all, and all the costs for all of you in the country as a whole, even with a normal salary, less than one tank. But there’s a lot more sense from more than one tank - well, not everyone understands this

                  Then graduate students are not a panacea. Someone forgot to wash the tube - this is the result. And this happens.

                  Because not with my hands, but use washing machines. Otherwise, they will not be washed: the wind is in the head.


                  In addition, we decide what to give to whom, after all, we, haha, because we can convince the powers that be that they are good.


                  How's that?

                  That's why I switched from history to teaching PR because it is ... more interesting, although it is not considered a science. It’s just very nice to manipulate people, and even pay you for it.

                  PR - public relay or what?
                  What is so good about deceiving the people? It is the scam that you call a scam.


                  And personally, I find money in the "inkwell". These are articles, books, grants from the Russian Humanitarian Science Foundation, and ... payment for PR and advertising. A little bit of everything, even enough to go abroad.

                  Well, your brother doesn't get paid in the west either. That is, only "out of the inkwell". Pay is not for the position, but for the visible result.
        2. bastard
          bastard 21 June 2016 14: 05
          0
          Quote: kalibr
          The best minds are enough for us even with our training system, but scientists need to pay, but not 15 thousand, as now the rate of associate professor. Without victories in football, we will somehow live. Without scientists, there will be a hitch.

          1. AK64
            AK64 21 June 2016 14: 10
            -1
            Having looked at this, God forgive me, the face (Professor Savelyev) quietly expired: that is why there is no science in the Russian Federation that such faces are with
      4. Bayonet
        Bayonet 21 June 2016 07: 03
        +1
        Quote: aba
        Better attend to learning the best minds in place,

        Well, they will teach, and then what, departure? If they were needed here, there would be decent wages and working conditions. People of science (real) are fans of their craft, and therefore they go to places where the conditions for research work are really created, and not an empty chatter! hi
      5. Alena Frolovna
        Alena Frolovna 21 June 2016 07: 11
        +11
        It’s better to attend to the training of the best minds in place, or else with education reform ...


        And already "attended".



        Interview with the Minister of Education

        "As soon as we move away from universal free higher education, mechanisms will appear that will help attract valuable personnel to enterprises."
        (D. Livanov, head of the Ministry of Education and Science)


        - My years are growing. I’m not a fool ... Where can I study then, Uncle Livanov?
        - Valuable workers - janitors and carpenters. New trading posts have appeared ...

        - Will they teach us in universities, increase our knowledge? Where, tell me, get me an education?
        - Valuable workers - watchmen and others ... You will be soldiers running around with machine guns ...

        - And where will the progress go enlighten the grandson? Do we expect any miracles? Will there be science?
        - You got it already!.. With six! .. You grow up first! And we have ideas with a margin. You will be in the tundra swineherd!

        Unified State Examination - "Еwe are diverse Гwalking ЭLecture
        1. insular
          insular 21 June 2016 07: 57
          +1
          So, in the USE, the trouble is that it is not clear which university to go to find work, but it’s all at once, but it’s scary with a gun, laziness with your hands and no head, but really want money?
          Somehow everything is in a bunch ...
          For me it’s at least so in the swineherd tundra, if the livestock is decent, the conditions and the pigsty are modern, ZP is such that it could allow a mortgage. Not?
          1. Andryukha
            Andryukha 21 June 2016 09: 30
            0
            By the way, pig farming in the tundra is not a trivial task.
            You can say the hothouse Martian conditions.
            And at the moment, mankind cannot solve it 100% (mainly because of what it does not want, there are more interesting things - wars)
            1. Bayonet
              Bayonet 21 June 2016 11: 49
              0
              Quote: Andryukha
              By the way, pig farming in the tundra is not a trivial task

              "Pigs in the tundra are good, but deer are better!"
        2. The comment was deleted.
        3. Andryukha
          Andryukha 21 June 2016 09: 25
          +5
          That's all cry that the exam is bad.
          Well, offer something better.
          But you need to understand that:
          - the absolute majority of students must pass this exam
          - the result should not depend on geographical location (a single standard is a sign of empire)
          - this exam should not depend on the attitude of the teacher
          - fast, better to automate
          - cheap

          I agree that there are distortions. And how to make a system from scratch and immediately?

          Stop blaming, suggest.
          1. dauria
            dauria 21 June 2016 10: 59
            0
            Stop blaming, suggest.


            Why invent? Invented before us.
            - the absolute majority of students must pass this exam

            So graduation in high school passed everything. Passed - get a crust on the average.
            But this crust only gives admission for entrance exams at the university, no more. A minuscule adds to the passing score (3 or 5 points out of 25 with 4 entrance to the university)
            Remove private universities and paid places. The desire to "drag through" relatives and friends has always been (and still is) - this is how control resolves, there would be a desire. Bump heads a couple of times, and then glance. Tuition fee - work placement. (or compensation to the treasury by personal money or by an employer).
            Introduce a licensing system (an analogue of the tariff qualification guide) so that the venereologist is not responsible for cranes and electrical safety.

            But all this will work if the country needs it. And we have a country - Alikperov gas station. In addition, they are kings in their enterprises. See how many restrictions and requirements there are for a company in the USA who wants to build a road? Better than at a military factory under the USSR.
          2. Kenneth
            Kenneth 21 June 2016 12: 46
            0
            Admission to college is an exam. The requirements of a particular university for knowledge are the standard. I didn’t even dream of entering the MIPT, although I had both a five and five and olympiads. And ehe leveling for boobies
            1. AK64
              AK64 21 June 2016 12: 55
              0
              Admission to college is an exam. The requirements of a particular university for knowledge are the standard. I didn’t even dream of entering the MIPT, although I had both a five and five and olympiads. And ehe leveling for boobies


              By the way, how are they now admitted to the same MIPT or Moscow State University? Is there an introductory or based on the results of the exam?
              1. Kenneth
                Kenneth 21 June 2016 13: 00
                0
                Exam but with a high passing score
                1. AK64
                  AK64 21 June 2016 16: 19
                  0
                  Exam but with a high passing score


                  Hmm ... That's the "level" of Moscow State University has become ... rather low.
      6. insular
        insular 21 June 2016 07: 35
        +2
        Quote: aba
        It is better to attend to the training of the best minds on the spot, and with the reform of education soon you will have to turn the turners and locksmiths, and not the best minds.
        Training personnel without creating a sane payroll network is nothing, if not to say that this is a direct path to the outflow of those very brains.
        Managers and top managers are sitting in huge numbers with salaries in the millions per month and beneath them are a dozen engineers with salaries of 30-40 thousand who earn salaries for managers to develop the organization and their own (and where do you think salaries come from managers?), In the domestic oil and gas office, such as Rosneft, etc.
        Well, which of the hard workers will not agree to go to an international company, where today and now they pay 200t.r., but you need to learn English ...
        The hard worker moves (if knowledge and experience meet the high requirements for the position), after a couple of years he has experience working according to foreign standards and he is increasingly invited to work in the parent company somewhere in KhustOn, and then they give out a residence permit and the hard worker receives a blue passport .

        Fantastic? But no. You would know how many of my colleagues from ### have already moved to the states. Some are returning to Russia, but already by expatriates, with a salary of $ 6-8 thousand ... Many openly dream about it - get a blue passport and get a salary of $ XNUMX here in Russia (not everyone wants to move).

        Hello to Sechin, Miler and all the same from other areas. While we feed the aligarchs, those people who are tired of it will look for places where they are given work and paid for it.
        And I have not yet written about where work comfort and what attitude to employees is. It’s better not to write about it. for mats banned.

        (Now I work in a joint organization near Exon, I used to work in Rosneft and a couple of domestic places).
        (He graduated from Tomsk Polytechnic, a long time ago, about 10-12 years ago. But I want to say that knowledge gives great!).
        1. Andryukha
          Andryukha 21 June 2016 09: 17
          +3
          You know, I am the very engineer with the z.p. 40tr
          so here:
          1. Do not count money in someone else's pocket. Top managers have a completely different level of responsibility. If I score 2 weeks at work, nothing catastrophic will happen. If my boss scores, the department will be left without a quarterly bonus, and if the general one, we can remain without an annual bonus. If you do not like the level of s.p. - Look for a better place. Some do so - but not all.
          2. In international companies, a completely different approach to the organization of labor and it is not acceptable for all "engineers".
          3. Well, some have fallen, well, thank God. It must be remembered that no one is waiting for us there.
          4. You just say sad experience in state-owned companies. I have a little bit, touched such cooperation at the very edge - I still cringe.

          There are many companies in which to work - it's nice. The more your work brings money to the company, the more you earn (do not get - there is a nuance here).

          There are, of course, opposite examples, but who makes you work for ungrateful employers?
          1. insular
            insular 21 June 2016 09: 45
            +3
            1. He left Rosneft with a GUI, I know (he estimated it himself) how much does the work that I performed as a technologist there cost (and in other sections I have enough information from mine, first-hand). I went through all the steps from a freelance employee and I can tell you more about who has what responsibility. due to the debt of the ISU, he was in contact with many heads of contracting and subcontracting organizations and I know who and how works in my field (neftegaz).
            I also know that the coolest project organization in the Far East was simply dropped into the mud by two "effective" managers in a row, who were not ashamed of beautiful bonuses to their loved ones and to those for whom they created from scratch a dozen leadership positions ... Do you understand what I mean?
            There is a short experience in the design and survey work on design and survey work (not Rosneft, not oil and gas), from which I ran away a year later, after I did not want to put up with the situation when designing one of the responsible state facilities.
            2. Are you now according to the OBS or based on something specific? Again, I am writing about the reality that exists in our Sakhalin Oblast and the Far East as a whole.
            3. It is impossible, because it is not liberals-rogue-sloths who leave, but quite literate people, with their own assessment of the situation, moderately patriotic, active young people with invaluable work experience and knowledge of modern technologies, of which there are not so many in Russia. And they leave not because Russia is bad, but because they are not allowed to work, they are forced to use not effective technologies, but the difference in their own pocket. As a result, organizations suffer losses, deposits are simply killed without the possibility of recovery. Not every ENGINEER can tolerate this. Dirt, killing ecology, sloppiness on the ground and by direct order "to save on matches" - enrages.
            At the same time, they are still not ward.
            4. I have NORMAL experience, in very good companies (by Russian standards), everyone would be like that. Here are just a management "superstructure" in our companies is somehow too big. Historically, it happened.

            Rosneft, Gazprom TTG ... Do you know even more comfortable companies from OUR? So, I don’t feel like working for such employers anymore. Dreams come true only when you leave Gazprom, and not in it and not with it.

            One employer pays you 0,5% of what you really bring to the company, the other does not greed and pays 1% (figuratively), simply because there are not 10 people above me, but 2, with the same posts and essentially duties . There is a difference?
            1. insular
              insular 21 June 2016 10: 08
              +3
              You can laugh as much as you like about the approaches to the design and implementation of projects in the oil and gas sector among foreigners, but the result speaks for itself.
              Why? Why did my design work in Rosneft and Gazprom result in dirty, dead objects, with regular incidents and accidents, and the result of my international design - clean, high-tech facilities that have worked for years without the slightest glitches, and planned process shutdowns for modernization and retrofitting? Why? When I moved from one company to another, I began to squint less? or sharply wiser? (both those and other objects through the fence from each other, the picture is clear to tears).
              Yes, a lot of everything seems redundant and superfluous to Russian people. Especially high requirements for TB, but the result of these requirements is the absence of incidents in millions of hours (even without cut fingers).
              Everything is forbidden under pain of dismissal, regular dredges and breath tests and people really do not use because for such a RFP can and tie.

              And now, with all the confidence I can say that our asphalt is so melting, and heating mains tearing in the SAME PLACE every year! not because of poor employees, but because of illiterate thieves. That's all we have so not because of the shortage of personnel (there are personnel), but because of reptiles in the leadership that has grown to an astronomical scale ... And you are about the exam.

              When an engineer like you protects managers, I feel sad. This means that another good engineer will leave soon, and the manager’s defender will remain, the one who agrees with lawlessness ...
              1. Alexanast
                Alexanast 21 June 2016 11: 31
                +8
                ++++ Only for this one ..
                When an engineer like you protects managers, I feel sad. This means that another good engineer will leave soon, and the manager’s defender will remain, the one who agrees with lawlessness ...


                And then, you know, they have a responsibility ... oh, what am I talking about ...
              2. Andryukha
                Andryukha 21 June 2016 14: 56
                0
                I do not protect all managers, but those who provide the promotion and implementation of our developments. I believe that this is a necessary part of our common work. The extent to which they will outperform competitors will affect my prize.
                Managers who purely formally shift pieces of paper without even having a semblance of specialized education do not inspire respect from me.

                By the way, gradually, large old offices with "big" bosses are falling apart and their place is being taken by private ones, which gnaw out orders with their teeth. This process is neither easy nor fast, but it is going on.
                1. ZAV69
                  ZAV69 21 June 2016 20: 46
                  0
                  Why is it that lately there have been managers who strive to sell something in order to get the company's income. And they do not care how people continue to work. Now the hard workers have a change house, the engineers have some kind of cabinet for two. And then the hard workers will go to the heating center, the engineers will be on duty on each other’s heads, they’ll cut the subscriber’s office to hell, the customers will not go to the bar, they’ll go to the regional center. Cho, Lyamov 5 of the company will have income, but the fact that remounting a heap of iron and a client with a vengeance of the heel will lubricate ...
                  I did not see the normal managers, the more effective in sight, the effect of them is short-term, then the scribe comes.
            2. The comment was deleted.
            3. Lt. Air Force stock
              Lt. Air Force stock 21 June 2016 10: 10
              +3
              Quote: insular
              One employer pays you 0,5% of what you really bring to the company, the other does not greed and pays 1% (figuratively), simply because there are not 10 people above me, but 2, with the same posts and essentially duties . There is a difference?

              That's just the point if workers collect the PS-90A2 engine that costs $ 5 million or the IL-76MD-90A plane that costs $ 45 million, then the salary should at least be remotely correlated with the price of the labor product. And to be 100-200 thousand rubles, not 35-45 thousand rubles.
              He may be afraid to pay that kind of money, because a specialist can save up a large sum for several years, put in a bank or open some kind of business and leave, and the plant needs him to work with 40 mp to a very old age and feel the need and constant lack of money.
              1. Vadim237
                Vadim237 21 June 2016 10: 22
                +2
                In Russia, 100 - 200 thousand only working locksmiths - car service mechanics can receive, adjusters and operators of CNC machines, as well as welders - but this is rare.
                1. Lt. Air Force stock
                  Lt. Air Force stock 21 June 2016 10: 28
                  +1
                  Quote: Vadim237
                  as well as welders - but this is rare.

                  The welders were probably only at the defense plant (there was a program in which they showed how to weld a titanium rocket Bulava, the welder in a spacesuit entered the workshop filled with inert gas and worked).
                  Quote: Vadim237
                  Adjusters and operators of CNC machines,

                  My father works in a factory producing aircraft engines, CNC machines from the 80s, they constantly break down, and adjusters there do not get that kind of money. Only the director and his deputy.
                  1. Vadim237
                    Vadim237 21 June 2016 14: 13
                    +1
                    I pay 90 thousand to my machine operators, the "oldest" CNC machine in my production is DMG, produced in 2011.
              2. insular
                insular 21 June 2016 10: 24
                -1
                Quote: Lt. air force reserve
                He may be afraid to pay that kind of money, because a specialist can save up a large sum for several years, put in a bank or open some kind of business and leave, and the plant needs him to work with 40 mp to a very old age and feel the need and constant lack of money.

                Do you know this phrase: "income expense"?
                So the higher a person earns, the faster his ZP will again miss him, he’ll just have a slightly higher standard of living (restaurants are more expensive, things are branded higher, the car is newer and no longer a Prior, but a Lexus). Yes, he will have the opportunity to save, but there will be more temptations to spend. And who will stand and save? ETOGES what willpower need to have?
                If a person gets a high salary and he has a good base, it’s not the withdrawal of capital to offshore by the aligarchs ... you look and you can raise a pensioner, and you won’t have to raise your pensioner age.
                So, the person receiving 100-200 in the factory will work there, just as they are working for 30-40 now. It’s just that the money from the pocket of the aligarch will be shifted into the hands of those who really worked and into the budget as taxes. And in the hands of the service sectors in the form of spending (consumer basket).

                This is the misfortune of aligarchic states and offshore.
                1. Lt. Air Force stock
                  Lt. Air Force stock 21 June 2016 10: 41
                  +2
                  Quote: insular
                  Do you know this phrase: "income expense"?
                  So the higher a person earns, the faster his ZP will again miss him, he’ll just have a slightly higher standard of living (restaurants are more expensive, things are branded higher, the car is newer and no longer a Prior, but a Lexus). Yes, he will have the opportunity to save, but there will be more temptations to spend. And who will stand and save? ETOGES what willpower need to have?

                  It depends on the person, there are fist ones who simply will not buy an expensive car, why buy a car for 3 million, spend 120 thousand a year on hull and 70 thousand on gasoline?
                  The same goes for restaurants and clothes. It is unlikely that if my father would get 100-200 thousand at the factory, he would rush to buy a jacket from dolce gabana for 50 thousand rubles, and spend tens of thousands of rubles in a restaurant.
                  Quote: insular
                  So, the person receiving 100-200 in the factory will work there, just as they are working for 30-40 now.

                  But it’s not a fact that if he invests in business and it begins to develop, there incomes can reach one million rubles or more per month, time will not be enough and he will have a choice, spend time at the factory for 100-200 thousand salaries or do his own business which brings 5-10 times more money.
                  You need to understand that 35-40 thousand rubles are only enough to eat, get dressed, a child and an apartment in the long term (it may be possible to save up in 20-30 years), and with 100-200 thousand per month, you can already create passive sources of income.
                  1. insular
                    insular 21 June 2016 10: 50
                    0
                    Not everyone is capable and generally wants to run their own business. Just like that, they don’t want, can not and will not.
                    In the same way as most of those who receive 20-30 thousand at the factory do not want and cannot start their own business. Start-up loans aren’t really available right now?
                    Not. Somewhere, the logic failed.
                    1. Lt. Air Force stock
                      Lt. Air Force stock 21 June 2016 11: 14
                      0
                      Quote: insular
                      Start-up loans aren’t really available right now?

                      No one will take loans in their mind, as they postpone the payback period and hinder the development of the business. For example, take a loan, say 1 million rubles for 5 years, at best you will give 2 million in 5 years, and in the worst, you will take an apartment in repayment account and you will remain with a burnt out business, without an apartment.

                      Quote: insular
                      Aleko, not everyone is capable and generally wants to run their own business

                      And what is there to lead? I do not propose building a factory or a factory. You can buy apartments and rent them, open a beauty salon, a boutique with expensive clothes, simply invest in stocks of a ready-made business and receive dividends on them (the old generation after all puts money on a deposit at%, with shares almost the same), etc. This is not high technology. My father has a friend, his wife worked as a saleswoman and he is both a trucker without higher education, they opened a sausage shop, now they have several of them, they have already provided children with apartments and everything necessary.
                      A lot of mind, knowledge is not needed, free money is needed, and there is no fear of losing it, and when a person with sn 30-45 thousand rubles saved up 1 million rubles (starting capital of the business) for 7-10 years. His hands are shaking, he is afraid of losing them, because he has earned them for so long. Hence the mistakes, the business is burning out.
                    2. Vadim237
                      Vadim237 21 June 2016 14: 18
                      0
                      Now they’re selling a ready-made business, along with a client base, but to acquire it, you need tools and analysis.
                      1. Lt. Air Force stock
                        Lt. Air Force stock 25 June 2016 19: 56
                        0
                        Quote: Vadim237
                        Now they’re selling a ready-made business, along with a client base, but to acquire it, you need tools and analysis.

                        That's exactly what the funds are needed, and they are not available with a salary of 40 thousand rubles, which is barely enough for a family, rent, clothes and food.
                        What business is there? If it went to zero and didn’t incur debts, it’s already good.
                        As for the sale of business, you need to look at profitability, the reason for the sale, and in general, many believe that they will not sell a good business.
                        Only in one case is it worth buying, if the reason for the sale is due to the fact that the owner has a more profitable business and simply because of a lack of time he wants to get rid of the less profitable, for example, he started with a hairdresser in some small closet, and then opened a network of salons beauty, there is no reason to keep a small hairdresser, so he sells it.
                  2. The comment was deleted.
                2. insular
                  insular 21 June 2016 10: 48
                  0
                  Actually, why did I print so many letters here:

                  That is why the average is so high on Sakhalin? Because everyone makes good money? No, because there are a number of people like me working on Sakhalin-1,2 projects. People who, with their RFP, form an average in the region.
                  That's what prevents our companies from paying like that? Can you say that the bourgeois are moderately generous and pay a lot? Yes, I belittle you .. Already the bourgeois are generous ... Yeah.
                  All this means that ours are underpaid. And so it is everywhere.

                  And the result, the main result. There are so many unique technologies in Sakhalin that have been applied to international projects. Really having no analogues in the world ... Well, why ?! Why not our companies?
                  Why did Sakhalinmorneftegaz (Rosneft's daughter on Sakhalin) have not invested in development for more than 20 years, and when they rushed, it turned out that now it’s easier to shut down everything than to fix it. Why?! At the same time, with some kind of muddy schemes, they are buying something somewhere ...
                  1. Andryukha
                    Andryukha 21 June 2016 14: 46
                    0
                    And what prevents you from creating YOUR company and working as YOU want?
                    As for the muddy circuits and other things ...
                    It's just that some "managers" have a criterion for the quality of work not how to do it reliably, but how to put it in your pocket.
                    But the problem is that if all of these are dismissed at once, then the process will arise.
                    Gradually, private shops will grow to larger tasks, and technologies will appear for cooperation of private shops on large projects. While public offices can be polished very gently.
                3. The comment was deleted.
              3. The comment was deleted.
          2. The comment was deleted.
      7. The comment was deleted.
      8. AK64
        AK64 21 June 2016 09: 28
        0
        Better attend to learning the best minds in place,


        But what's the point if they leave anyway?
    2. Aleksandr72
      Aleksandr72 21 June 2016 07: 27
      +3
      Is it weak to entice the best minds to yourself, or do you keep money bags in a state of mediocre football players?

      And they, oligarchs, I mean, do they need it? A mediocre football player is at least PR (on the principle of a black sheep, even a tuft of wool), and science, especially fundamental, requires fundamental investments without guaranteeing any return in the short term. And the oligarchs are not interested in the future - they profit here and now. And the state also seems to see further prospects for the development of science and everything connected with it is not interesting. That is why brains flow abroad - the fish seeks where deeper, and where the man is better.
    3. Al1977
      Al1977 21 June 2016 11: 44
      0
      Quote: dmi.pris
      Is it weak to entice the best minds to yourself, or do you keep money bags in a state of mediocre football players?

      And why not mediocre footballers do not go to us. Why Messi is not in Spartak, and Ronaldo is not in Dynamo. That is money. Think about it yourself and understand.
      1. Lt. Air Force stock
        Lt. Air Force stock 21 June 2016 11: 57
        +1
        Quote: Al1977
        Why Messi is not in Spartak, and Ronaldo is not in Dynamo. That is money. Think about it yourself and understand.

        1-2 football players will not do the weather. In Russia, football clubs were created for vanity and money laundering (go check how much a player’s club bought), well, even when contractual matches on a sweepstakes make people their own. They do not bring profit, only losses.
  3. Nix1986
    Nix1986 21 June 2016 06: 03
    +19
    There is no money for science? Yeah you're lying laughing As the chief nanist said at a recent corporate party, "there is not only a lot of money, well, a lot," and this "brain" is not going to run away to the west, patriot, so I am calm about science laughing
    1. Vladimir 1964
      Vladimir 1964 21 June 2016 06: 12
      +4
      Quote: Nix1986
      No money for science? Yes, you are all lying. As the chief nanist said at a recent corporate party, "there is not only a lot of money, but a lot of money," and this "brain" is not going to run away to the west, patriot, so I am calm about science

      Here, apparently, colleague, all the money for science and went to the redhead. Money is red-haired and competent and enterprising abroad. There are no Chubais and LADIES, but this is a big plus for development. hi
      1. sa-ag
        sa-ag 21 June 2016 07: 08
        +2
        Quote: Vladimir 1964
        Here, apparently, colleague, all the money for science and went to the redhead.

        Here the science of comparative honest money taking from the budget, it is now generally dominant :-)
    2. Amurets
      Amurets 21 June 2016 06: 18
      +1
      Quote: Nix1986
      As the chief nanist said at a recent corporate party, "there is not only a lot of money, but a lot of money" and this "brain" is not going to run away to the west,

      Yes! This main onanist said so and turned to Putin for money. You don’t get enough. Https: //lenta.ru/news/2016/03/02/rosnano/ This is enough or a bunch of links, but you can already find obscene comments ?
    3. Vadim237
      Vadim237 21 June 2016 10: 24
      +1
      Only those who, on their own, attract investors to their research have money for science.
      1. AK64
        AK64 21 June 2016 10: 43
        -1
        Only those who, on their own, attract investors to their research have money for science.


        Another "expert"
        / and spat
  4. Mikhail m
    Mikhail m 21 June 2016 06: 05
    +3
    Currently, we are preparing a number of important decisions, including questions of material incentives, increasing monthly surcharges for the titles of academicians and corresponding members.

    Medvedev, as always, in the subject. The flight of the academicians did not seem to be noticed. Those who by a miracle, contrary to the existing system of decomposition of education, really move science, and not bronzed monuments to past achievements, are leaving.
  5. aba
    aba 21 June 2016 06: 08
    +7
    It is hard, almost impossible for a drug addict to get off the needle. So our government has integrated Russia into the world economy with the words “what we cannot do, we will buy” cannot so simply say that they were wrong when they destroyed everything. In fact, wherever you stick, it's full of seams everywhere. And you have to start from scratch, with education. If there is no education, then there will be no one to finance in fundamental industries. And even earlier in production, we simply will soon have no specialists left, there will be only managers, but who will they supervise?
  6. Pitot
    Pitot 21 June 2016 06: 13
    +7
    To select the entire budget prepared for football players (this is at least) and transfer to some scientific institute or design bureau - there will be a hundred times more benefit. These fucking footballers are just parasites, why do they get paid like that? Also Greyhound boorish. Yes, it’s better to get the fans out of the fund, and then more.
    1. Kos_kalinki9
      Kos_kalinki9 21 June 2016 06: 39
      +1
      These fucking footballers are just parasites
      Or money bags in a state of mediocre football players contain?

      ek how the "successes" of our national team at EUR2016 stuck us.
      But by and large, everything is correct. They don’t want debris bags to invest in fundamental science. You can’t post an advertisement for your company there. And if you hang it out, then who will see her at the research institute.
      And to statesmen, too, the state of science is visible on the drum. and therefore we have what has us.
  7. apro
    apro 21 June 2016 06: 15
    +1
    Only what is not in demand in one’s own country is flowing in, now the borders are open in the country there is a foreign system of grants and the search for capable codidates, there is little to block, you need to do science and production yourself, but nobody needs it.
    1. Amurets
      Amurets 21 June 2016 06: 25
      +2
      Quote: apro
      Only what is not in demand in one’s own country is flowing in, now the borders are open in the country there is a foreign system of grants and the search for capable codidates, there is little to block, you need to do science and production yourself, but nobody needs it.

      That's right! Nobody wants to invest in fundamental science, and investments in programs are aimed at the future, because they do not promise a quick turnaround of money and a quick enrichment.
  8. Alexander S.
    Alexander S. 21 June 2016 06: 21
    +5
    I saw a vacancy in the Novosibirsk vector - a junior researcher (requirements - more than 20 !! scientific publications over the last 5 years.) Attention! Salary 6000r. And 9000r for a candidate of science. Not .. there is still a line - additional payments from the vector. But still. Better loader. Not ... maybe they really get beginners there for 30k ... but wrote ... what I saw. Maybe there are really knowledgeable people ... how much do junior employees get?
    1. siberalt
      siberalt 21 June 2016 06: 58
      +1
      Ml an employee in the USSR received less than a school teacher (in the region of 110 re). In the system of research institutes, this is the first step in a career. Only laboratory assistants and technicians received less. But even there the salary depends on the profile of the research institute.
      1. AK64
        AK64 21 June 2016 09: 47
        0
        Ml an employee in the USSR received less than a school teacher (in the region of 110 re).


        The 130 base rate was.
      2. Lt. Air Force stock
        Lt. Air Force stock 21 June 2016 10: 17
        0
        Quote: siberalt
        Ml an employee in the USSR received less than a school teacher (in the region of 110 re). In the system of research institutes, this is the first step in a career. Only laboratory assistants and technicians received less. But even there the salary depends on the profile of the research institute.

        Then at least they gave apartments for free, and now you need to rent for half the salary, the young specialist will not take the mortgage, since where did he get the money to pay a contribution of 18000 rubles every month.
        1. AK64
          AK64 21 June 2016 10: 23
          +1
          Then at least they gave apartments for free,


          What what? Who was this "given"? Was this given to me?
          Uh-huh - by the age of 50 they were "given" after a heap of humiliations.

          Here I’m a pomnitsa, I’m a man ... Five years in a hostel, 4 people in a room. But for free, that is what it is.
  9. lotar
    lotar 21 June 2016 06: 24
    +6
    Unfortunately, in our country, officials have long become synonymous with "thieves and crooks", for every useful deed, dozens of useless or even sabotage. The situation with the sanctions has opened the abscess that has been growing for decades. What can we say about the governors who steal quite officially for themselves. through intermediaries or even their own companies by billions, officials with a rank below hundreds of millions through the same schemes, or through other much more thoughtful schemes (They would have this energy and somewhere in a more useful channel, but the system itself disposes to parasitism Legislative and judicial institutions also have their shortcomings, the example of Vasilyeva and others is indicative. All the current reformatory phenomena in one way or another affect all aspects of the life of Russians, educational reforms are no exception. It is only on you and me that the further path of our homeland depends, Yes, there are a lot of bureaucratic der-ma, but I'm sure there are still not moldy grains there, only they need to be found and raised.
  10. AFG-X
    AFG-X 21 June 2016 06: 26
    +5
    Blah blah blah must be done ... How are the statements of our officials already enraging. am
    1. Vadim237
      Vadim237 21 June 2016 10: 28
      0
      Well, we know that they will not do anything — others will do — those who need it.
  11. BladeRunner
    BladeRunner 21 June 2016 06: 39
    +4
    "Satisfied with the work of the government" (c)

    Or maybe all this is just no one needs? It's not that petty officials are bad - they just do what the authorities say. And she says - we will produce gas. Well, we’ll somehow cope with the defense at the expense of petrodollars. And then let's dump to the west and that’s it.
  12. Korsar4
    Korsar4 21 June 2016 06: 42
    +2
    And there is. Colleagues from the RAS system are not fun. They also offer time to spend on games in Hirsch indices. Plus - a bunch of little firms that will be added to the magazines from the Scopus list. Again we play by the rules of others.
  13. samarin1969
    samarin1969 21 June 2016 06: 59
    +2
    Gentlemen, scientists and cultural figures have settled well. Both are prepared by the state. If brains suddenly appear, then they go into business or abroad. The bulk of the "figures" long ago created corporate dynasties, which in the main "gray" mass exist in commercial institutions. Let them try to fill me up with the abyss of the names of modern Russian "Lomonosovs" and "Tchaikovsky". (Alferov, Perelman, semi-unnamed heads of the design bureau and that's all?) ... In culture, there is a complete "Basque" and Palmyra clone of Rostropovich.

    Alternative: closed state research centers, design bureaus with strict personal responsibility (including family members). Poor Russian citizens may well demand from "academicians" a personal report on the effectiveness of the money spent.
  14. LÄRZ
    LÄRZ 21 June 2016 07: 09
    +2
    Everything as usual. "Until the thunder breaks out, the man does not cross himself." Until the science "vzhahnet" so that the president himself intervenes, things will not work. And all the management of this process is in "manual mode".
    It is practically impossible to track the real direction of spending all these funds. There are separate reports of scientific institutes for obtaining government grants for the implementation of fundamental science projects. The general reporting, to put it mildly and mildly, is limping ... As a result, it turns out that the ruble allocated for the project, for example, is distributed approximately as follows: 5 kopecks to the scientist for work, 5 kopecks to cover the costs associated with the work, and 90 kopecks - so that officials in charge of science do not deny themselves anything. These 90 kopecks often include funds to regulatory authorities, which by inspections of the accounting and reporting sphere of activity and the requirements for providing a bale of this kind of paper documentation can, excuse me, gored anyone.
    What is this? This is a complete inoperability of this system! I do not know how, but it is absolutely necessary to change it, otherwise the "seams" will be complete.
  15. 1536
    1536 21 June 2016 07: 21
    +1
    Business must fund science. And if it is impossible to create "sharashka", then it is quite possible to force businessmen to engage in innovative technologies with the involvement of scientists and engineers. Make a zero rate on loans, exempt from taxes, etc. If this does not help, then you can think about sharashki.
    1. sa-ag
      sa-ag 21 June 2016 07: 26
      +4
      Quote: 1536
      Business must finance science

      Businesses are interested in earning speedy profits, and how, then, to finance fundamental science, the return on which will occur when it is not known and in what form?
      1. LÄRZ
        LÄRZ 21 June 2016 07: 30
        0
        Quote: sa-ag
        Businesses are interested in earning speedy profits, and how, then, to finance fundamental science, the return on which will occur when it is not known and in what form?
        It’s clear: business is business. Well, if not fundamental, then at least finance applied science, there "exhaust" will turn out faster.
        1. AK64
          AK64 21 June 2016 10: 21
          -1
          It’s clear: business is business. Well, if not fundamental, then at least finance applied science, there "exhaust" will turn out faster.

          Punching ba "experts".
          Do not know - be silent!

          Business does NOT finance science ANYWHERE, Nowhere else at all.
          Even in engineering research6 with obvious applied exhaust, the share of financing from the business does not reach 1/3 of the total funding.
          And this despite the fact that business finances science through tax cuts (that is, in essence, this is still the same hidden state funding)

          Do not know - be silent!

          "Connoisseurs", damn it.
    2. AK64
      AK64 21 June 2016 10: 11
      +1
      Business must finance science.


      Another "great reformer" with "great ideas" --- let such a person take charge, so the country will not even have electricity left.
    3. Lt. Air Force stock
      Lt. Air Force stock 21 June 2016 10: 19
      0
      Quote: 1536
      it is quite possible to get businessmen to engage in innovative technologies with the involvement of scientists and engineers.

      Here I recently read on the Internet at Sberbank in the Czech Republic (there is a branch there) a% loan rate of 2-3%.
  16. parusnik
    parusnik 21 June 2016 07: 25
    +2
    Some kind of leaky ship ... something flows there ... something leaks there, now here's an old new problem - "brain drain", again repairs ..
  17. 0895055116
    0895055116 21 June 2016 08: 00
    +2
    What would you like? THE MINISTRY OF DESTROYING EDUCATION and SCIENCE is doing EVERYTHING so that ACADEMIC ("PURE") SCIENCE STOPPED TO EXIST IN RUSSIA! The Academy of Sciences of RUSSIA is already "on its knees" - it is not world-renowned scientists who "lead" there, but "EFFECTIVE MEANAGERS" from science, distributing funds for scientific projects. And the QUESTION arises - do these MEEE-MANAGERS AT LEAST 1% CONSIDER WHAT THEY GIVE OR DO NOT GIVE MEANS FOR? APPLIED science for this "ministry is still" not on the teeth ", but here there are" successes "too - PERSONNEL AGING - Applied science, apparently will be destroyed by natural aging of people! HANDS "! Well, well destroyed" dummy universities "- all sorts of" factories "for stamping diplomas! "?" "Unsized" universities, apparently, will be DESTROYED! This is how the "golden dream" of the enemies of Russia is realized by the hands of reformers from the MINISTRY OF DESTROYING EDUCATION and SCIENCE!
  18. Seraphimamur
    Seraphimamur 21 June 2016 08: 12
    +4
    I would like to say not about financing in general, but specifically that young scientists simply have no place to live. Where is the housing for young scientists with at least a degree of candidates of science? I have a wife who knows a child; the candidate himself lives in a hostel about an apartment - take a mortgage on a common basis. He is preparing to defend his doctoral degree and judging by his mood he will leave the country. Tempting offers. You can talk about patriotism, but you want to live!
  19. zoknyay82
    zoknyay82 21 June 2016 08: 21
    +2
    Quote: carpag
    As long as the salary of a young lieutenant is several times higher than the salary of a young doctor or graduate student, a brain drain is inevitable. I don’t know any country except Russia, where a novice officer receives much more than a novice doctor. Here the question is in order of priority

    They will hear you. And they will reduce the payment to the young lieutenant to the salary of the young doctor :-) so that no offense :-) This is our bureaucrat's such inverted logic.
    1. max15243
      max15243 21 June 2016 10: 24
      0
      The logic of the bureaucrats is "normal"; those who are now "more needed" are paid more. It is necessary to defend the interests by force (Crimea, Syria, etc.), so money was found for the army, and they even remembered about the standards of the TRP, it is necessary to prepare future soldiers. And doctors, teachers and engineers will wait until the legacy of the USSR still exists.
  20. azer
    azer 21 June 2016 08: 22
    0
    For every scientist in the car, a car and a good salary, then there will be no thought to leave benefits for housing and communal services and for children benefits.
    1. Al1977
      Al1977 21 June 2016 11: 57
      +1
      Quote: azer
      For every scientist in the car, a car and a good salary, then there will be no thought to leave benefits for housing and communal services and for children benefits.

      But doctors and teachers do not need apartments and cars?
  21. peta locksmith
    peta locksmith 21 June 2016 08: 27
    +2
    Quote: Pitot
    To select the entire budget prepared for football players (this is at least) and transfer to some scientific institute or design bureau - there will be a hundred times more benefit. These fucking footballers are just parasites, why do they get paid like that? Also Greyhound boorish. Yes, it’s better to get the fans out of the fund, and then more.


    a sensible proposal on taking the budget from the presumptuous boors, who are called the Russian national football team.
    you need to make their salary dependent on performance - lost, bare salary - 15 and no increase ...
  22. salavat
    salavat 21 June 2016 08: 30
    +4
    We have all applied science to buy second-rate spare parts from five years ago in a Chinese basement, assemble a nanotelephone, stick your nameplate, show Medvedev, declare an innovation, sell for 40 rubles. All twisting at the temple with a finger to accuse of "unpatriotism".
    1. Lt. Air Force stock
      Lt. Air Force stock 21 June 2016 10: 20
      +2
      Quote: salavat
      show Medvedev, declare an innovation, sell for 40 rubles. All twisting at the temple with a finger to accuse of "unpatriotism".

      And the Russian "Baikal" processor? The price is under 200 thousand rubles, despite the fact that in terms of power it is inferior to i5, i7 for 15-30 thousand rubles.
  23. Ros 56
    Ros 56 21 June 2016 08: 33
    +1
    But this problem should become the main headache of our authorities. And if this problem cannot be solved quickly and decisively, then our government and the Duma are worthless, and the president must pay close attention to this.
    1. Xmyp
      Xmyp 21 June 2016 08: 36
      +1
      they have not had a price for more than 20 years, do you all hope for a miracle?
      1. AK64
        AK64 21 June 2016 10: 47
        -2
        they have not had a price for more than 20 years, do you all hope for a miracle?


        And the local (forum) Noroda "darkest" on the god is. Hence ...

        And those who are not worth it - they don’t like those here.
  24. vladimirvn
    vladimirvn 21 June 2016 08: 37
    +2
    That who would send abroad without regret is our footballers. These are people who have been entrusted with protecting the honor of the country. They don’t know the anthem, their faces are boring, they did us a favor, we embroidered to kick the ball. Ugh! am
    And young lieutenants defend the honor of the country at a time. See the latest examples in Syria. For such guys, I don’t feel sorry for any money.
    And in order to raise science, it is necessary to encourage the atmosphere of creativity in the country. How many free circles did Soviet children work for? Now find money for a club or a trip to the Olympics for a child. Vacation of children and then turned into a business. (So ​​that it becomes loot across the throat). For scientists, then the country spared nothing. Here you and laboratories and cottages and money, and if not money, then fame, recognition and honor has always been above the roof for them.
    1. Beefeater
      Beefeater 21 June 2016 10: 01
      +2
      Quote: vladimirvn
      That who would send abroad without regret is our footballers. These are people who have been entrusted with protecting the honor of the country. They don’t know the anthem, their faces are boring, they did us a favor, we embroidered to kick the ball. Ugh! am
      And young lieutenants defend the honor of the country at a time. See the latest examples in Syria. For such guys, I don’t feel sorry for any money.
      And in order to raise science, it is necessary to encourage the atmosphere of creativity in the country. How many free circles did Soviet children work for? Now find money for a club or a trip to the Olympics for a child. Vacation of children and then turned into a business. (So ​​that it becomes loot across the throat). For scientists, then the country spared nothing. Here you and laboratories and cottages and money, and if not money, then fame, recognition and honor has always been above the roof for them.

      And with football the same story as with science, not with a dozen celestials, we must work and promote ideas to the masses. Creative laboratories, children's sports section.
      This is the only way to solve the problem.
      But personally, I was faced with a situation where the parents of a young and very promising football player were forced to give a bribe to the coach. The coach did not let the guy play.
    2. Lt. Air Force stock
      Lt. Air Force stock 21 June 2016 10: 23
      0
      Quote: vladimirvn
      That who would send abroad without regret is our footballers. These are people who have been entrusted to defend the honor of the country.

      So where do they go? They have salaries of an average of 2 million euros per year, and it is unlikely for them that this is the main income, probably many are already engaged in business, and football is so for vanity.
  25. Muvka
    Muvka 21 June 2016 08: 42
    -3
    Che, once again all lost? Can I go to die?
  26. VICTOR-61
    VICTOR-61 21 June 2016 09: 40
    +3
    Yes, our government doesn’t need anyone who sits on the oil needle and waits for the sanctions to be lifted, but for now it’s possible to remove the last pants from the people. The United Russia authorities will soon have nothing, and they are inept projects promoting different types of elections; they’ve gotten themselves and a lot of other things, and they’d think, as it were, to adopt a new law on defrauding people’s last pennies, and what’s interesting.
  27. ilya_oz
    ilya_oz 21 June 2016 11: 02
    +2
    Not only money is important, but also the overall comfort of living.
  28. ZAV69
    ZAV69 21 June 2016 11: 29
    -3
    Kudrin again tries to plant a pig. Creative class is not scientists, but dog hairdressers. Why the hell to develop it?
  29. Al1977
    Al1977 21 June 2016 11: 52
    0
    And who needs these "brains" here?
    Look at the list of the richest companies in Russia, is there at least one high-tech company there?
    And look at the USA, that’s the answer. it’s not about money, but about the needs of the state.
    We need soldiers now. The enemy at the gates, NATO overlaid, Ukrainians-fascists, the fifth column in the country, the Orange Revolution and the world conspiracy against Russia, the Isis comes. The main thing now is to maintain the power of Putin, his friends and United Russia. This is the task of the motherland. Brains are not needed here yet, muscles are needed.
  30. Two handed
    Two handed 21 June 2016 12: 04
    0
    Last year, familiar engineers (a married couple) dumped abroad. Before starting to work in their specialty, they worked for a long time as a waitress, a loader, etc., paid for language courses, in short it is not easy to settle in place.
    1. Lt. Air Force stock
      Lt. Air Force stock 21 June 2016 12: 09
      +2
      Quote: Zweihander
      Before starting to work in their specialty, they worked for a long time as a waitress, a loader, etc., paid for language courses, in short it is not easy to settle in place.

      In the USA, waitresses and movers make good money. For example, when I was at university from the institute, we traveled to the USA in the summer under the Work and Travel program for 4 months, worked there as ice cream sellers, painters, at McDonald's, and brought along $ 5000 each (that is, it turns out that they earned even more than 5000, since XNUMX I had to rent a house, buy food, etc.).
  31. KyrisAlive
    KyrisAlive 21 June 2016 12: 54
    0
    When they come up with an elementary idea of ​​paying people more, rather than inventing a dupelle-nipple system, then something may change. Someone, of course, can call the "flowing away" not patriots, but few of us in their place would refuse this opportunity. When you are not appreciated here now, and in the near future you can see a gap, people need to arrange their lives now, and not wait for a miracle. Considering the inequality of salaries, even between the regions of Russia, the salaries of officials and doctors, managers and scientists. And there is nothing to say about comparisons with the West.
  32. vladimirvn
    vladimirvn 21 June 2016 13: 02
    -1
    After all, the UEFA was proposing to leave the Russian national team normally, because of disqualification, having filled up the English faces, there was no climb to play football ...
  33. Whowhy
    Whowhy 21 June 2016 14: 18
    +4
    Yes, it's too late to chew snot - the train has already left a long time ago ... Most scientific schools have already been destroyed - young people have not gone to science for a long time. In one university where the name contains the word "State" (I worked there for the last six years), the average age of the teaching staff is 65 years. That is, some 5-10 years more and this university will cease to exist by itself ...
    I must admit that the wound inflicted by the Great Country in the 90s was fatal ... And let someone else sticking there in the military-industrial complex - this is agony.
    To fix all this, not only political will and enormous efforts are needed, comparable in scale and cost to only the 30s of the last century, but also the youth’s enthusiasm and confidence in the authorities. Where to get it all now ???
    The dominance of oligarchic capital, bureaucracy and nepotism flourish in the country. All our legislation is tailored to maintain this state of affairs. For example, to take at least one law on copyright protection is not a law, but a dummy ...
    1. eyed
      eyed 21 June 2016 17: 22
      0
      Here is the will and enormous efforts we have and enthusiasm up and up, only the directions for this are all from here to hell ... Ditch grandmothers, take them offshore, to buy houses there - this is where will and effort ...
      And scientists with doctrines .... why the hell are they needed! To them, enthusiasts.
      We need them, but they are not. Laughter through tears - on the ambulance, retirees work at 2 rates, there is a shortage of doctors up to 60% (this is in Vladik), and the summary of the authorities - "doctors are to blame for everything!" I started out as a student on an ambulance: as a snitar up to 95 rubles, as a paramedic up to 170 (plus stepukha 40-45) - and this was in the early and mid-70s! And now ? TWO !!! the rate is 40 thousand ... And at MNS 20 ... and at Sechin 20 ...
  34. candidate
    candidate 21 June 2016 19: 00
    0
    ... The law of negation of negation
    Like a dialectic of punishment

    The father of nations in the frames understood
    He correctly set these frames
    “Cadres decide everything!” - was known
    It’s a pity that now this is inappropriate ...
  35. Munchhausen
    Munchhausen 21 June 2016 19: 28
    0
    While the engineer will be paid less than someone's nipple as a secretary, the situation will not change.
  36. husband
    husband 21 June 2016 22: 51
    0
    Corresponding member Volkov, by the way, a co-author of Fortov, personally told me this way in 2006 - ".. if you're so smart, why are you sitting here, go over the hill and be smart there ...". So delivered said. I don't think I was the first to hear this. And I think many have left such old people ... in science, secretly organizing car services for children under the control of the Research Institute, and scaring away young engineers and scientists.
  37. Zomanus
    Zomanus 22 June 2016 00: 16
    0
    Young people need to be supported first.
    For those who have already taken root in institutions,
    not particularly quick to leave abroad.
    But the youth came, looked, appreciated and went there,
    where you can earn normal money.
    About the old men, who get all these payments,
    himself in the know. Because he worked in graduate school.
  38. Weyland
    Weyland 22 June 2016 01: 18
    0
    I recommend - a good article in the topic: Gitis L.Kh. “Science Sane and Insane” // “Mining Journal”, 2016, No. 6 (http://giab-online.ru/catalog/11545)
  39. Val77
    Val77 22 June 2016 02: 33
    0
    http://kamchatinfo.com/heaven/detail/14801/
    The state of science in Kamchatka!
  40. EDP
    EDP 22 June 2016 03: 46
    +2
    He defended his thesis back in the USSR, worked at a scientific university, traveled abroad, an official since the mid-90s, so I can speculate on this issue. The brain drain stems from a lack of perspective, where effective managers cut down on "ineffective spending" what are the prospects for a fundamental? The solution is simple to remove effective managers, to restore funding based on the results. Precisely by the result of scientific research, for the results of fundamental research do not always bring an effect today.
    1. tasha
      tasha 22 June 2016 07: 12
      0
      Effective managers are a bit wrong. I think that there is a substitution of concepts. A manager is a hired manager in a private company. The head of the dumpling shop shift is the manager.

      In our case, we must say - a civil servant, an official. It is people who are in the public service who are engaged in the distribution of funds allocated for basic research. And the main problem is the problem of motivating people who are required to monitor the state of science in the country. The average official, most likely, does not care about the final result, the salary is on, the office writes. They can only be punished for negative consequences, for example: the official as much as possible appreciated the prospects of the development, allocated funds there, but the result did not work (sometimes it happens). Thus, the official does not make sense to take risks. He can also be punished for any violations - in the preparation of documentation, paragraphs of instructions, misuse of finances. And the same civil servants who find it easier to find formal errors check the activities of such an official.

      So it turns out that it makes no sense for the current official to take the initiative, he lives according to the principles of "the salary goes", "no matter what happens" and "we live once." Therefore, the official begins to be wise with kickbacks, bribes and sawing off funds. What will he leave behind? Chair and table? And there is a house in Spain ...

      Moreover, this applies not only to science, but also to all state activity in general. All levels of the structure (except, of course, the very, very top wink ).

      As a result, it turns out that the first person of the state is forced to intervene in all state affairs. This has been going on since the time of Peter the Great, if not earlier. Although in one of the management theories the peak of the organization's development, the unattainable ideal is described as "one thing is known about a good leader - he is ...".

      What to do?

      1. You can put an official in the "area of ​​death". Keep him in fear of irreversible punishment, up to and including the death penalty. This method seems to be effective, but we will also end up with an absolutely inert mass of officials, incapable of any independent action.

      2. You can follow the path proposed by Y. Mukhin - to evaluate an official by the results of his activities in a national referendum, for more details see his books. Sound idea, but up for discussion. Because often saying "the people are against, the people will rise," they forget that the people are not a brick put on the scales. You can't please everyone ... I already wrote once: my friend's neighbor in Maria Devi, Christ, believes - but she is also a people .. And a Russian official - did not fall from the moon.

      3. You can do patriotic education, train managerial personnel from childhood, by attracting the population (ONF, youth organizations, academies of management). This is a progressive path, it takes time and effort, does not always end in success. As I can judge, smart and proactive people will not go to the civil service. Self-employment, where they pay more or abroad, for example, will always be more attractive.

      4. And sorry for the repetition. It is necessary to introduce scientific methods for assessing a person's ability to hold important government posts. Select passionaries in the understanding of Gumilev, give them extraordinary powers and entrust them to make decisions. Test everyone, create a personnel reserve. However, as one wise man told me - "It smacks of fascism ..."

      5. ?

      Maybe it makes sense to combine possible solutions ..
  41. EDP
    EDP 22 June 2016 07: 53
    +1
    And yet, an effective manager is our evil. Its mission is effective cost reduction. In all areas where they come, there is a collapse and effective reduction: education, healthcare, social services, science, etc. The official still works to increase funding and staff, targeted and state programs, in other words, to increase costs. It is only necessary to direct its activities in the right direction.
    1. tasha
      tasha 22 June 2016 08: 17
      +1
      I repeat - the substitution of concepts. It is necessary to call a spade a spade.
      A person in a public position is not a manager. This is a civil servant. Official. Moreover, it’s for good reason, I suspect angry . Like, the word capitalist is capitalism to blame. Nooo ...

      For me, from ancient times, for some reason, the manager is Lee Yakkoka. All the rest are directors, managers, chairmen, leaders. Therefore, I probably object. hi
      1. AK64
        AK64 22 June 2016 09: 34
        0
        I repeat - the substitution of concepts. It is necessary to call a spade a spade.
        A person in a public position is not a manager. This is a civil servant. Official. And this is not for nothing juju ju, I suspect angry. Like, the word capitalist is capitalism to blame. Nooo ...

        For me, from ancient times, for some reason, the manager is Lee Yakkoka. All the rest are directors, managers, chairmen, leaders. Therefore, I probably object.


        And today an official is an "effective manager". And not only in the Russian Federation this is so.

        That is, officials - professionals were replaced by officials - "effective managers".
        And the trouble is that an effective manager, as a rule, does not understand the process that he is trying to manage. Notably, he has several digital indicators that he is trying to lower / increase. It's like driving a car through the instruments without looking out the window --- raising / lowering the numbers.
  42. cedar
    cedar 22 June 2016 18: 40
    0
    Vadim237
    "I pay 90 thousand to my machine operators, the oldest CNC machine in my production is DMG produced in 2011."

    And with this wonderful fact, we will begin ...
    The production of machine tools in the country since 1992 has been reduced by 15 times. Production of CNC machines by 25 times. 43 machine-tool enterprises ceased to exist. Import share in domestic machine tool equipment is 90%. Russian industry (like science) is not monetized, only 2%. Well and so on. etc...
    I mean, dear Military Review, nevertheless, it is necessary to make labor for the brains to look at what is happening with us, in our still country, from a military point of view. That is, trying to still see yourself in the trench of the information and economic war, the presence of which in the light of known facts is difficult to refute. And the articles and comments cited here should be considered only as front-line reports. In a particular case, from the scientific sector of the battlefield of this war that we are observing. Then things will go and brains will run away less.
    After all, it is one thing to be a runner ... in peacetime and quite another in war.
    Anglo-Americans in their "National Security Strategy" among the three main evils threatening them along with ISIS and the Ebola virus, called Russia. That is, they equated us and you with mass murderers and a disease deadly for humanity. Let, dear ones, your esteemed brains draw the right conclusions. Who does not believe let him look and check. See from 16 min. 30 sec. The background is a quiet speech by the translator of the Venezuelan ambassador.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bBXT-enHpkY