Military Review

Shoigu compared the protests with the events of 93.

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Shoigu compared the protests with the events of 93.Emergencies Minister Sergei Shoigu expressed fears that protests could put the country on the brink of civil war, but he supported protesters for "respect for yourself." He also expressed confidence that Putin is interested in fair elections and will inevitably win them.

“I support all those who come out demanding respect for themselves,” the minister said during a press conference, commenting on opposition rallies. At the same time, he expressed concerns about escalating the situation. "I am very disturbed and alarmed by the escalation of extremist relations ... Not to allow chaos is the direct responsibility of the authorities. I am absolutely sure that people do not want chaos, and I am sure that they will not allow it," he stressed.

Shoigu recalled the events of the fall of 1993, when the country was on the verge of civil war because of the conflict between President Boris Yeltsin and the Supreme Council, which ended in the shooting of the White House. “God forbid we don’t reach the events that happened then in September - October ... I don’t want a repetition and I will do everything to prevent this from happening,” the Emergencies Minister said.

He recalled one of the leaders of United Russia and the fact that last year among the materials published on the WikiLeaks website were the conversations of the Russian opposition with a representative of the US Department of State. In particular, Shoigu pointed out, opposition representatives recognized that Putin could lose power only in the event of a major emergency.

The Minister of Emergency Situations, according to his confession, is concerned that any protest action inevitably turns into an anti-Putin one. At the same time, he stressed that he unconditionally supports the current prime minister, who during the presidency did not allow for himself "any changes in the Constitution."

In conclusion, Shoigu expressed confidence that Putin is interested in holding fair presidential elections and will inevitably win them. “It was Putin who said that it was necessary to put cameras on the sections, it was he himself who was interested in absolutely fair elections, so that the victory was clear,” the minister recalled. "I can repeat that we had different leaders, different times, there were times on the verge of civil war, trucks drove around the city, as in revolutionary St. Petersburg, so I am absolutely sure that the majority will support Vladimir Vladimirovich Putin. There is no doubt about that, I do not want a repetition of chaos, "he added.

Recall that at the joint opposition rally held on December 10 on Bolotnaya Square and December 24 on Sakharov Avenue, tens of thousands of people came. The main demands of the protesters were the cancellation of the results of elections to the State Duma and the resignation of Prime Minister Vladimir Putin.

After the rally on Sakharov Avenue, spokesman for the head of government, Dmitry Peskov, said that Putin was still supported by the majority. But he assured that the protesters' opinion was heard. We treat him with respect. “The people who took to the streets are an important part of society, but they are in the minority,” said Sands.

In turn, presidential aide Arkady Dvorkovich called the rallies "a normal expression of civic position" and noted that he sympathized with those who had gathered for a demonstration rather than those who spoke before them.
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  1. karimov01
    karimov01 28 December 2011 11: 42
    -12
    "He also expressed confidence that Putin is interested in fair elections and will inevitably win them."

    How pleasant it is to hear such words from a man who arouses respect among many Russians ...
    1. tronin.maxim
      tronin.maxim 28 December 2011 11: 48
      -6
      He is trying to play on 2 sides. If he continues to continue it will destroy him. He needs to decide who he is. Apparently he wanted more power (I guess).
      1. urzul
        urzul 28 December 2011 11: 56
        +5
        I do not want a repetition and I will do everything to prevent this from happening, "- said the head of the Ministry of Emergencies.
        Yes, he’s already decided everything, do you mean to the post of prime minister ?? I think he’s calm in his ministry, everything is fine!
      2. maksim
        maksim 28 December 2011 14: 45
        +2
        tronin.maxim,
        Shoigu has a position to work in, but not everyone knows how to do it and he will remain in office under any government, I evaluate his work at 5 +, and regardless of party affiliation
  2. Col.
    Col. 28 December 2011 11: 56
    +1
    It is not clear why Shoigu is “one of the leaders of United Russia.” As far as I know, persons in active military service in the Armed Forces, FSB, Ministry of Internal Affairs, Emergencies Ministry, FMS are prohibited from being a member of any political party. Or something has changed. ?
    1. Vasilenko Vladimir
      Vasilenko Vladimir 28 December 2011 15: 15
      0
      Can you give me the law number?
  3. SAMEDOV SULEYMAN
    SAMEDOV SULEYMAN 28 December 2011 11: 58
    +9
    "The head of the Emergencies Ministry, according to him, is worried that any protest action will inevitably turn into an anti-Putin one." "The main demands of the protesters were the cancellation of the results of the elections to the State Duma and the resignation of Prime Minister Vladimir Putin." I just do not understand if the elections are wrong and where does Putin? And probably with that, he is like a bone in the throat, like a splinter in the butt, like a pebble in a shoe in the West
    1. ESCANDER
      ESCANDER 28 December 2011 12: 06
      +10
      Putin will soon be blamed for surrendering Moscow to the French and losing to the Russo-Japanese.
  4. CEO
    CEO 28 December 2011 12: 05
    +3
    Watch Karaulov's film "Unknown Putin". And you will immediately understand why the pendos do not want Putin, but want Yavlinsky and Chubais .. You can trust Karaulov! He always reveals the festering places in our power. Take a look and discuss it.
  5. Samsebenaum
    Samsebenaum 28 December 2011 12: 14
    +2
    "I do not want a repetition and I will do everything to prevent this from happening," - said the head of the Ministry of Emergencies "
    To prevent this from happening, you still need to listen to the opposition. Not odious people involved, but normal people. After all, they have a lot of fair requirements. Like it or not, but this is the best way today. But it seems that the authorities are once again stepping on a rake. Neither Medvedev nor Putin stubbornly reiterate theirs. At least on their forehead, even on their forehead ...
    That is why "any protest action inevitably turns into an anti-Putin one."
    Shoigu was somehow at a loss, it seems ... It’s quite difficult to get along with the authorities and the protesting people.
    The Bible says that you cannot serve two masters. Either you will hate one, or the other.
    1. Samsebenaum
      Samsebenaum 28 December 2011 13: 05
      -1
      Neither Medvedev nor Putin reckon with a different opinion, but stubbornly reiterate their own. At least on their forehead, even on their forehead ... (Rev.)
  6. sashalenovo
    sashalenovo 28 December 2011 13: 11
    +1
    One gets the impression that the leadership of the country does not want and does not rule the country, but only promotes and raises billionaires who withdraw loot abroad. One traitor to the homeland, a friend of the Americans, is Alexei Kudrin, which is worth it, ruining the entire economy and dumping it.
    1. ab
      ab 28 December 2011 13: 34
      -1
      sashalenovo,
      no glavnii to vseiravno putin i uze mnogo let, ili on ni4ego ne znaet.
    2. dimaas
      dimaas 28 December 2011 15: 01
      +3
      I was always touched by the people's anger against the "enemies of the people" Gref, Kudrin, Taburetkin, etc. The guys were hired for this job with "lightning rods" and they 100% honestly worked it out. No, we always have boyars-thieves, and the tsar-father knew nothing.
  7. ab
    ab 28 December 2011 13: 31
    0
    karaulov ', dorenko vse pod vlast podmazivautsia. svobodnaja pressa otsutstvuet, kak i tv
    1. CEO
      CEO 28 December 2011 14: 08
      +1
      And what do you think independent TV .. This is probably the one that showed in Libya the main square of Tripoli with palm trees. And in the area of ​​palm trees, it never grew. Or a photo of the same Georgian at 08.08.08/XNUMX/XNUMX. What does a free press mean to you? Where would they say how cool it has become in Iraq with the advent of the DEPARTMENT ?? What in America quickly dealt with the protests in New York. Or just repeat what you hear?
  8. Oleg14774
    Oleg14774 28 December 2011 13: 43
    0
    I communicate with my acquaintances and friends and see how people quickly forgot the collapse of the Union and the 93rd year. He has allegedly been in power for more than 10 years and has done almost nothing! Don't read the pro-Western press. Look around, you don't need to be an analyst to compare and draw conclusions of what was then and now. And if you consider that he was surrounded by the Yeltsin team, which did not allow him to work and sabotaged him. From the explosions of houses in Moscow, Volgodonsk, the death of Kursk (I think that there was an "order" to the Americans), they thought it would pass, but no, it didn't, even the CIA director secretly flew to Moscow to settle the issue. So they pressed something to the Pindos then! War in Chechnya and with Georgia ?! Why does everyone forget ?!
  9. Hey
    Hey 28 December 2011 13: 43
    0
    Colonel - It is not clear why Shoigu is "one of the leaders of United Russia."

    Most likely, he is the unofficial leader of United Russia, all the same, he stood at the origins of this party.

    I’ll partially disagree with Samsenebaum, it is imperative to listen to a healthy opposition, to extract a rational kernel from this, and apply it in our activities.
    And bending one’s policy of power is simply vital (the main thing is not to bend over), otherwise the opposition will take power into its own hands. This is the law of struggle.
  10. 755962
    755962 28 December 2011 13: 57
    +1
    one of the few ministers to hold onto his post for so long, or maybe the only one. WORKS! He holds an absolute record of tenure among all Russian post-Soviet politicians of ministerial rank: he has been leading the fight against emergencies in all the Russian government since 1991. Army General. Hero of the Russian Federation. Tuvinian by nationality.
  11. dred
    dred 28 December 2011 14: 26
    +1
    The article is interesting.
  12. wolverine7778
    wolverine7778 28 December 2011 15: 20
    0
    Shoigu - the only minister who managed to stay on as Minister of Emergencies under three presidents, this is unbelievable)))
    1. Superduck
      Superduck 28 December 2011 17: 13
      0
      It seems that under Borka he even claimed a successor. I read somewhere that he had a blat on the line of his wife, which was serious and even a daddy with him an experienced nomenklatura.
      1. aksakal
        aksakal 28 December 2011 17: 37
        -2
        Quote: SuperDuck
        It seems that under Borka he even claimed a successor. I read somewhere that he had a blat on the line of his wife, which was serious and even a daddy with him an experienced nomenklatura.

        - not tired of carrying gossip from the source of OBS? And we continue to believe in pink fairy tales about dnmocracy? At 35 years old?
        Already someone, and Shoigu deserves respect as a professional who created one of the best profile ministries in the world, unlike some who did not get rid of pink glasses in 35, but who were so envious that they were ready to carry any dirty gossip ... .
        1. Superduck
          Superduck 28 December 2011 18: 03
          0
          My dad was not a party boss, but an ardent defender of young democracy and EBNa personally, I didn’t drive a truck with AKshniks in 93m to become the youngest minister of the Russian Federation, I wonder how much this truck of statistics did to morgues. My wife does not keep the company 50% of orders for which the Ministry of Emergency Situations provides, and my daughter does not run the psychological assistance service in the same Ministry of Emergency Situations, being a deputy of the State Duma. Yes, not yet I successfully extinguished fires near Moscow and in Siberia and the Far East last summer. Not my subordinates did not sign acts on the "Lame Horse" and in nursing homes in Komi and Stavrapolye. Did not reorganize the Soviet system of fire supervision into a system of redirecting financial flows in the end. The reform of the fire brigade was the prototype of the reform of Serdyukov's army. Yes, ask any fireman what he thinks about Kozhedubovich.
          Of course, I have something to envy. Yes, and my surname is not translated as "grave" from the Komi, but this is already lyrics, I remembered for joke, for he is a Tuvan and a Komi Finno-Ugric.
          1. aksakal
            aksakal 28 December 2011 18: 31
            -2
            Not without abuse, however, EMERCOM of Russia is one of the best in the world.
            I have already substantiated to you that the authoritarian period is a necessary and rather long period before the establishment of democracy. Hopefully no need to repeat. By the way, stupidity on that thread answered my post. Like, times have changed, not at all ... There are no Berezovsky and others. My answer is simple - who came to power in a wave of protest against Putin, what is he obliged to do in the first place? Release Khodorkovsky and forgive Berezovsky, and others ... Ovich and ... Ovsk. Whoever he is, whether he is a communist or a fair Russian, he will do it, he must do it. What do these ... ovskie primarily do? Restore their former positions. Will they meet resistance? What more! Here you have the first clan showdown. After restoring positions, what is the second priority? Your half-baked parties will not have any significance there, they will only try to sell themselves at a higher price - they have no resources. All resources will quickly turn out to be ... after the first clan showdowns. Further ... the Russians will begin to rush to power - this is instead thanks to the one who, having come to the protest wave, released or amnestied them. Here is the clan showdown of the second level. And then again read the first part of my post on that thread - everything will be just that. The point of no return to that situation, to that crap, has not yet been passed, so you wrote the stupidity in that answer.
            And about Shoigu - he is a product of his time. Have you heard about a phenomenon like rental bureaucracy? This organized immediately after the French Revolution. Such a revolution is not fundamentally eliminated, only as a result of self-discipline again and again. It is eliminated only with the gradual development of democracy, which, in turn, can develop only with the sufficient maturity of the relevant political institutions, which are parties.
            1. Superduck
              Superduck 28 December 2011 19: 02
              0
              So let's go without emotion, you have logic, and on this site such as you are very rare. You clearly or intentionally confuse the concepts and ignore the obvious cause-effect relationships. When people talk about protests, they immediately try to impose a chain on people:
              - revolution - blood - Nemtsov / Navalny / Yushchenko / Satan president - Khodorkovsky prime minister - new perestroika - parade of sovereignty - civil war - NATO / China will occupy Russia and divide it.
              I want to ask you why this one? Are there no other options for the development of protests in the world? Why can’t this happen (absolutely from a flashlight, my preferences do not play any role here):
              The admission of the ousted parties to the elections - Re-election to the State Duma - a legitimate parliament - the legitimately elected president in the spring (no problem if it is GDP).
              So this is exactly what the protesters want (what their leaders want does not apply to this)
              Why do you think (it seemed to me) that I am calling for a military coup and so on. Yes, I’m generally fucked up, I live in Ukraine and I know the price of all this better than many here, based on reports from NTV and RTR.
              As for the maturity of institutions, well, tyranny will never make them mature, tyranny is a sure way to their degradation (which, by the way, is now observed in the Russian Federation, not for the sake of injuring, just an obvious fact for me). from what the hell will they develop if this is not claimed by the state system? The parliament adopts all the president’s directives in the first reading, the constitutional court does the same, the CEC chairman does not hide his preferences, I certainly exaggerate and not so simple but in a general sense something like that. The idea of ​​justice is in demand in society and the fact that it came out sideways during the elections is just an artifact of the presence of this desire and a temporary coincidence. My opinion is that it is not the state that needs to be changed, but it just needs to adapt (which by the way, at least in words it started to do). Yes, of course, Russia is not Syria and Kyrgyzstan, people won’t fail to take pitchforks horribly, but the protest mood is not disappearing, it is being preserved. And there are many ways to shake these canned food from it, but all of them are, to put it mildly, not humane. And if you pretend that nothing is happening, it can happen as in 91m, when dissatisfaction with life in the USSR citizens resulted in the fact that when the country was killed, they pretended not to notice this, i.e. actually approved of his death.
              1. ab
                ab 28 December 2011 20: 04
                -2
                I fully support SuperDuck. Why, if the gdp leaves or the elections are fair - immediately war? I remember when Brezhnev died, the headmaster brought us the same bullshit. This is convenient for the authorities - if not us, then the war and Russia will fall apart. What is so weak that it will fall apart. . Is it much better now? And who will climb, some. And if the GDP suddenly dies, then that's all. The next day, the adversaries will dissolve the whole country.
                1. Superduck
                  Superduck 28 December 2011 20: 15
                  -1
                  Quote: ab
                  if not us, then the war and Russia will fall apart

                  If you do not give priests food, gold and women, then the punishment of the gods will wipe you off the face of the earth!
              2. aksakal
                aksakal 28 December 2011 20: 20
                -1
                Let’s be without emotion.
                You deny the chain: "revolution - blood - Nemtsov / Navalny / Yushchenko / Satan president - Khodorkovsky prime minister - new perestroika - parade of sovereignty - civil war - NATO / China will occupy Russia and dismember it." And do you think it could be different? Namely: "The admission of the removed parties to the elections - Re-elections to the State Duma - the legitimate parliament - the legally elected president in the spring (no problem if it is GDP)."? And in the second chain you are cunningly silent about the release of Khodorkovsky. Still naive. People have protest moods, who will inevitably ride them? You guessed it right. Who skillfully and persistently redirects these protest sentiments against not quite correctly executed elections into anti-Putin ones? What is the very first requirement of all the results of these rallies? That's right - to release Khodorkovsky. And nothing that people went to protest against the election fraud and did not think about this Khodorkovsky - nevertheless, this demand, together with "Putin - resign" is included in the results of the rally. Are you blind and do not see how technically all this is done? I can say that I know whose ears are sticking out of all this. The inmate has not lost any influence or resources. Only the living conditions have changed, which is quite tolerable for a strong chela. That is why your second chain (admission of suspended parties to elections - Re-elections to the State Duma - legitimate parliament - legally elected president in the spring) will not work - it simply will not work. It is not needed by people who, in fact, have ridden protest sentiments. The first result of the displacement will be the release and amnesty ... ovskie, and then re-read my post above. Civil war (or its serious threat) will begin from the moment when ... ovskie will seize power, begin a large-scale redistribution of property and robbery of the country, and at the same time will try to take revenge on Putin (to put him in prison) - who will also have serious resources and also numerous fans. So here we are.
                As for deocracy again. Do you have one in Ukraine, you say? Can you voice the results? I live in Kazakhstan, an authoritarian state, unlike Ukraine, the Republic of Kazakhstan does not have Motor Sich, the famous Kharkov factories, Yuzhmash, Antonov and others. There is nothing like that, even the processing industry is in its infancy. And here is the result - in Kazakhstan per capita GDP - $ 12500, in Ukraine - half as much. Is it not the result of democracy. Bad comparison? Ok, let's take two other people close in quality and number of people, starting from about the same position. These are India and China. India is a democratic state, China is understandable. You will not deny that, with all due respect to India, half a hull ahead? There you have democracy. More examples?
                1. Superduck
                  Superduck 28 December 2011 20: 35
                  0
                  But who cares in Russia Khodorkovsky except the oligarchs themselves, Nemtsov and Novodvorskaya? Are you a pro in leading the topic in a different direction. But who the hell gave up ?! Or do you think that these protest moods will be pro-Putin, Putin is the personification of a system that does not suit them (people), with which they should love him even if he is a great guy really? If you saw Plkat - free Khodorkovsky, it does not mean that everyone there is only thinking about him. There the Communists were among other things at rallies and Natsik. What do you think they care about him too?
                  Quote: aksakal
                  As for deocracy again. Do you have one in Ukraine, you say?

                  Where am I saying that ?! You either do not know how to read or the pros of forum scams, stop trying to make a fool of me, because for now the mirror effect! In Ukraine there is no democracy, there is no democracy in the United States, and Israel is a Nazi state. Ukraine is one of the poorest countries in Europe with mediocre governance historically. It’s without banter, I say completely seriously so that I’m not asked more stupid questions on this site. By the way, India is not considered an undemocratic country just because there is no oil. Democracy there is not much more than in China.
                  Quote: aksakal
                  Is it not the result of democracy. Bad comparison?

                  And what does democracy have to do with it? Take Luxembourg or Germany (democracy) and North Korea or Somalia (not democracy) is better. Or, to be more precise, North and South Korea is simple, but at least compare the hell with a finger, if a person does not understand what democracy is or pretends that he does not understand, then the questions should not go to me but to Wikipedia. Listen, stop trolling me, I don’t have time to answer what you yourself thought up. About your logic, I got excited, I take my words back.
                  1. aksakal
                    aksakal 28 December 2011 21: 34
                    -2
                    Quote: SuperDuck
                    But who cares in Russia Khodorkovsky except the oligarchs themselves, Nemtsov and Novodvorskaya? Are you a pro in leading the topic in a different direction. But who the hell gave up ?! Or do you think that these protest moods will be pro-Putin, Putin is the personification of a system that does not suit them (people), with which they should love him even if he is a great guy really? If you saw Plkat - free Khodorkovsky, it does not mean that everyone there is only thinking about him. There the Communists were among other things at rallies and Natsik. What do you think they care about him too
                    - fact is fact, people go to the square not against Putin, but against fraudulent elections in the elections, and indeed, not at all thinking about Khodorkovsky. And in the end, what about the results of the rally? The tenth line, if not the twentieth, is said about the re-election. And in the first lines - "Down with Putin" and "release Khodorkovsky." See the final resolution of the rally, this is a document, not a poster.
                    How does this dragging in the totals understand? And only in such a way that they skillfully saddle, but already saddled these moods and wrap themselves in their favor. Can't you see it? If he gave a damn to whom, what the hell does he all pop up and pop out like a devil from a snuffbox, as an integral condition for change?
                    "By the way, India is not considered a non-democratic country just because there is no oil there" - China also has no oil, and India is recognized as a democratic country, and the best recognized democrats are the Indians, let it be known to you, the same Mahatma Gandhi, Sonia Gandhi and Jawaharlal Nehru.
                    "There is no democracy in Ukraine, there is no democracy in the United States, and Israel is a Nazi state." in this case, if there is no democracy in the UWB (for some reason, according to the same Luxembourgers and Germans, where, in your opinion, there is democracy, UWB is a leader in the field of democracy, but you do not have it in UWB), then you are drawing to us some kind of democracy of its own, which does not exist in nature. The name of such a democracy is "utopia". It can't exist in nature. We've heard about this from school history. Aren't you ashamed to be engaged in utopias at 35? And also - I am silent about Ukraine, but with Europe, about which you say that there is democracy, there are big questions. Wouldn't it all collapse there because of monstrous debts? And Russia actually has 4 percent actual growth and record low inflation. Again I ask you the question - why do we need democracy? What would also come to monstrous debts and depletion of the resource of the consumer society? And in Europe it is completely exhausted. Well, the Europeans won't change the furniture in a month to revive the economy. Or a TV set in two weeks. This is absurd. The only way out for them is - you yourself know which one. This has been written about more than once. Therefore, keep European democracy for yourself. I also got excited, I thought, you believe in fairy tales, but you are generally building utopias, inventing your own model of democracy. As for Somalia - you know very well, there is even such a term - somalization. In this way, the McCains also want to let Russia go. As for North Korea, you would think less clichés. Who provides the most serious technological assistance to Iran in building such a serious and complex product as a missile with a range of 2000 km? Not China or Russia, but North Korea. For this reason, it is completely inappropriate to call it a technologically zero state. Do you even read about rockets, or something. As for the standard of living, these are the inventions of the ideologists of those states whose economy is built on consumption, consumption and only consumption. Naturally, their standard of living will be higher, naturally, they will emphasize this as the main and total advantage of democracy. Only I look deeper and see the most serious generic flaws in the paradigm of the consumer society. These flaws for the most part do not lie in the material sphere, they are mostly in the spiritual and moral sphere, but inevitably later affect the material sphere as well. This is already from another opera, if you want, I can substantiate it on fingers and on facts and examples
                    1. Superduck
                      Superduck 28 December 2011 22: 13
                      -1
                      Sorry for the harshness in the previous post, flared up. Democracy is not an atomic concept. Ancient Greek democracy now would not be considered a democracy "by concepts", but it was a democracy. In the United States, too, in fact, democracy, and in Russia and in Ukraine and even in the USSR there was democracy, just with its own specifics, Hitler's Germany was also a democratic country. It's just that in comparison with western-continental-European democracies, those in the USA, Russia, and so on are less direct. Those. ideal democracy is when people elect all government officials in general. This, of course, does not happen in nature. So, dear aksakal, democracy is just the ability of citizens to elect rulers, roughly speaking, no more and no less. Who will collapse what, and who is where the wars are and for what, has no direct relation to democracy. These are issues of spring politics (aggressive or friendly), finance (debts, balances, stocks, etc.) and so on. So here is a full bouquet of options for these aspects in all their diversity can be in a democratic country and in a monarchy and in tyranny. There is no direct connection, only indirect ones. Understand this at last and stop writing nonsense. Tyranny in Chile under Penochete, near Argentina where there is relative democracy, Chile's economy is growing by leaps and bounds, Argentina is not. The opposite example is both Koreas, the opposite is true. Those. to say that a crisis in Europe due to democracy is stupidity, to say that democracy has nothing to do with it is also stupidity, because economic problems are to a certain extent related to the desire of some citizens to integrate within the continent, hence the subsidizing of weak economies and other troubles. But this is not a problem of democracy, these are problems in the financial sector. If conditionally, now the Russian Federation decides to revive the USSR, then it will have the same problems with finances and will be ruled by a tsar or a 2-chamber elective parliament is absolutely not critical.
                      I am only in favor of calling a spade a spade. Aggressive foreign policy is a sign of imperial ambitions, not democracy, and this is absolutely natural for both the Russian Federation and the United States. The presence in the government of a large number of moneybags is a sign of oligopoly and corruption, not the country's wealth. Bender was not a fascist, but a Nazi, and Turgenev was a nationalist and I can list the list of mass delusions for hours. So, as long as you confuse "hell with a finger" dialogue we will not succeed, excuse me.
                      1. aksakal
                        aksakal 28 December 2011 22: 57
                        -2
                        Quote: SuperDuck
                        even in the USSR there was democracy,
                        - I can’t but confirm. Have you heard about the principle of democratic centralism? He himself took part in this. In the party committee of the office. And the elections were truly honest, not even an instant. One promised the office to build a house, a stain, they say, broke through the city authorities, with the SMU and the mechanized convoy almost agreed. Another pressed on another. The battles were serious, the elections were real, the losers did not go to the front-line Maidan, and with a sour, though, look, they congratulated the winners. True, all this is within the same batch.

                        Quote: SuperDuck
                        So, dear aksakal, democracy is just the ability of citizens to elect rulers, roughly speaking, no more and no less
                        - Do not find what civil society requires? And I in my very first post, where, by the need of an authoritarian dressing room, didn’t I talk about this? The fact that civil law institutions should ripen, and this ripening can only be done under conditions of some authoritarianism, when an authoritarian ruler just needs to be in charge of order, pursue a competent economic policy and observe state interests. The rest of the tasks, such as the victory over corruption and others, cannot be solved by the authoritarian regime; it is impossible to demand from him the impossible for him. His task is to keep the state in a viable form until the maturity of civil society, which is already able to choose who needs it. Now, whatever you say, society already wants democracy - this is a good sign, but the fact remains a fact - it has not yet matured before it. Neither the civic consciousness, nor the civil and political institutions have ripened - I have already indicated this with examples with an apple. Another teenager also really wants to get married, it seems that even as the wife has grown and functions as it should, the problem lies in a slightly different plane, and there it is still a long way from talking about marriage. Not quite an exact analogy, but quite eloquent.
                        As proof - here is my forecast for March next year. Now it is Putin who is most interested in fair elections. He is confident in himself. I'm sure of him too. And even with fair elections, there will be a Maidan on Bolotnaya or Sakharov, or even on Red Square. All the same, they will "shoot the stuffing" in the scenery specially made for the polling station with the actors-losers in the role of voters and who is there. (By the way, the "bloody" demonstrations in Moscow with Athenian palms in the background have already been shown on the worldwide media, especially on Fox News, I laughed for a long time.). And even if these videos are recognized as either fake or insignificant, people will stand on the Maidan and demand that the elections be declared invalid. When asked that Putin's victory is convincing, they will answer - yes, we don't care that the majority of Russians chose him. After all, this majority is a zombified cattle, and therefore we do not recognize our loss and demand resignation. This unwillingness to submit to the decision of the majority will be my clearest proof of the immaturity of society, the unwillingness of people to be citizens of their country. Well, what are we betting on this forecast? I don’t undertake to predict on the final result. The Ukrainian version may also happen, which I would not like. Or something else may happen - that Putin is not Yanukovych of that time and will not back down, but will show his teeth that it is high time. Members of the forum urge to be witnesses.
                      2. Superduck
                        Superduck 28 December 2011 23: 07
                        0
                        Quote: aksakal
                        - Do not find what civil society requires?

                        Primitive people, in the case when they elected a leader, in principle, showed miracles of democracy :-)
                        Elements of tyranny are required for any society, here differences arise, there is a legal society where the law is tyrant and authority for everyone (almost), and there is a mess when the law means little and the person (the community of people) takes on its role. The problem of the second option is that there is absolutely no guarantee that this person in the context of the state is actually a statesman and that he correctly understands the goals and objectives of himself in the country and generally where to strive. When a miracle happens and the tyrant is adequate and smart - he goes down in history, when this does not happen then mass shootings, revolutions and civil wars and other nasty things happen, but the problem is that very often people don’t have peaceful methods to change power, because what? BECAUSE OF TYRANIA!
                        In fact, I do not see the tyranny of evil by definition, it's just a lottery.
                        And if Yanukovych showed his teeth then it would be a war, you don’t understand the situation, he too quickly passed the point of no return and his support was not global, then it’s easier for Putin, he has higher support. But what the authorities of the Russian Federation are doing right now is just right, they let them let off steam, they even punished a couple of forgers (formally started business), i.e. make the essence of the claims covered by their formal actions. But of course, this is all just preparation for the presidency, it will be clear who drew any conclusions and will not make any sudden movements before them. But for Vova this is not the problem, now he is not an alpha male, he made concessions, therefore the only chance for him to restore his status in the pack is to give someone a lyuley on the external front. Everyone now cares only for whom. But work is underway, an agreement is not signed with Ukraine, Saku is being advertised on Russian television more than Baskov, Syria, again, is a rearrangement in Transnistria and Ossetia. In short, by February it will be seen what's what. But I don’t think that Ramzanchik will again be driven into the mountains as in 2000m.
                      3. aksakal
                        aksakal 29 December 2011 00: 10
                        -2
                        Quote: SuperDuck
                        When a miracle happens and the tyrant is adequate and smart - he goes down in history, when this does not happen then mass shootings, revolutions and civil wars and other nasty things happen, but the problem is that very often people don’t have peaceful methods to change power, because what?
                        - while I think and see Putin’s all the signs of a statesman and adequate, you can disagree with me.
                        I will quote one istroik of the 19th century about the time of Catherine the Great: “When in the hands of the “great masters” (Germans, Kasyanov?) only “small matters” remain, they fill up idle time with conversations about what is not being done by them, as happened to them and how they would have acted if they had been called to power. Such gentlemen in Catherine (Putin's?) Moscow was plentiful. They were united by everything: social status, kinship, property, life out of work, at rest, in disgrace. At the end of the 70s, after Pugachevsky (Khodorkovsky?) uprisings, in Moscow there was talk of secret Masonic meetings, with the participation of noble nobles, dissatisfied with the reign of Catherine II. (Putin?) In the next decade, Masons spoke in public, court, school and press, charity. Government and society are wary". Perhaps my post deserves your crooked smirk, like, I found someone to compare Great Catherine with, but still please do not rush - the story, it is like that, the last word is behind it, they will judge. And the analogies are the most direct, don’t you? Is it repeating itself? Then maybe we will follow further?

                        "As you can see, this time, under the word "Masons", there was only a high-level opposition, hiding to "acquire significance." Catherine said in a letter to Foreign Minister Count Bezborodko that she was going to issue a special manifesto warning the people “against the seduction invented outside our borders under the name of various Masonic lodges and the Martinist Illuminati connected to them (liberalists?)and other mystical heresies, which are definitely tending to the destruction of Christian Orthodoxy and any well-organized government, and instead of this they erect disorder under the guise of an unrealizable and inherently imaginary equality". As they say, but comments. But interesting, and then what?
                        We quote: "At first, Catherine believed to solve the matter by purely literary polemics. She wrote The Secret of an Absurd Society, an ingenious parody of Masonic rituals. Then she composed three comedies that were staged at the theater at the same time: The Deceiver, The Seduced, and The Siberian Shaman, where she again ridiculed the Masons, and at the same time Cagliostro. “She considered them a virtue and hypocrisy, the freemasons themselves - or deceived simpletons, or clever fraudsters'. (Remember about white bows that look like contraception?)

                        There was not the slightest effect from this (just as there is none now, because the “deceived simpletons” will still blindly trust their “gurus.” And “nimble swindlers” on any comedy). Catherine wrote: “After reading both the press and the manuscripts, all the boring absurdities that Masons do (liberals?), with disgust I was convinced that, no matter how you laugh at people, they will neither become more educated nor prudent ”.

                        It became clear that it was time and power to use..."

                        On this gracious quote we will end our conversation for today. Thank you very much, it was nice to talk. Still, I want to hope that history has taught us at least something ....
  13. sashalenovo
    sashalenovo 28 December 2011 18: 01
    -1
    The bad news is that Father Tsar Vova is not even trying to prepare a successor. After all, after his reign, the country will plunge into chaos.
    1. dimaas
      dimaas 28 December 2011 21: 11
      0
      The same thing was thought under Stalin, Brezhnev, Andropov, Gorbachev, Yeltsin.
  14. Nikolay-
    Nikolay- 28 December 2011 23: 46
    +1
    Democracy is power on behalf of citizens and in the interests of citizens. However, not all residents of the country automatically become citizens. Such a right must be earned. For example, only the owner of a house could serve in the army of medieval Venice; others were not considered citizens. Therefore, ideally, the state should reflect the interests of the creative, productive forces of society. This is what we need to achieve. The demands of freedom for parasites and perverts of all kinds are harmful to the state and must be suppressed.
  15. Standpoint_N
    Standpoint_N 13 January 2012 23: 16
    0
    There will be no problems when the authorities hold PEOPLE'S REFERENDUM and are guided by their results, on the strategic issues of the development of our society. In the meantime, decisions are made "personally." Is it any wonder that the people are not satisfied with the leaders of the state and their reforms? Everywhere you look, there are problems. As for the 93rd. The shooting of the "White House" showed that it is easier for politicians to aggravate the situation and use troops than to fulfill the requirements of the current Constitution of the Russian Federation and solve problems politically. To do this, you need to strain your brains, think, look for the right solution, make compromises. Yet. The article does not reflect the fact about which S. Shoigu spoke in his interview. Yegor Gaidar came to him in 93 and asked for 1000 machines to defend "democracy" - is this the constitutional way? Who wanted to start a civil war? Thinking about the people? We were thinking about how to get absolute power to change the legislation of the Russian Federation, to carry out economic reforms in order to divide state property. What came of this can be observed today. Russia has no other way than the democratic development of the state in the interests of the entire people. Calmness of the state in justice. The President must be the real guarantor of the Constitution of the Russian Federation, of all that is written down, for the whole people and in the interests of all people.