Military Review

Prosecutor General of Ukraine Lutsenko called the Minsk Agreement a miracle that saved the country during the events near Ilovaisk

159
The Prosecutor General of Ukraine Yuriy Lutsenko unexpectedly complimented about the Minsk agreements. According to Lutsenko, the signing of the first Minsk Protocol actually saved Ukraine in 2014, when the Ukrainian security forces were placed in a ring near Ilovaisk. Continuing to ignore the term "boiler", Lutsenko said that during the ilovoi events the "Russian regular army" went to the rear of the Ukrainian security forces.


Prosecutor General of Ukraine Lutsenko called the Minsk Agreement a miracle that saved the country during the events near Ilovaisk


Statement by the Prosecutor General of Ukraine leads information service UNIAN:
Many criticize the Minsk Agreement. Now I can already say that at the moment when regular Russian troops entered our rear in Ilovaisk, there was one battalion between Ilovaisk and Kiev. One! The Minsk agreements are not perfect, but then it was a miracle for us - Poroshenko, Merkel, Hollande ...


This is actually a new proof that Poroshenko sat at the negotiating table only at those moments when there was a real danger for him to be not in the presidential chair, but behind the bars of the military tribunal along with the whole Maidan camarilla. And it was “Minsk-1” and “Minsk-2” at those moments when the militia smashed the Ukrainian army near Ilovaisk and Debaltseve, helped him to remain in the presidential chair.

It should be added that official Moscow categorically denies participation of the regular Russian army in the conflict in the Donbas. In particular, Sergei Naryshkin, chairman of the Lower Chamber of the Russian parliament, said earlier that if the regular forces of the Russian Armed Forces really fought in Ukraine, they would have been in Kiev no later than 4 a day.

Until today, in Ukraine, they can’t decide on how many Ukrainian security officials died near Ilovaysk in August-September of the 2014 year. Official data GWP: 366 dead. According to the volunteer organizations of Ukraine, killing at least 1 thousand people.
Photos used:
nikopol-tv.net
159 comments
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  1. Knowing
    Knowing 18 June 2016 07: 31
    +7
    That "bowler hat" was, the true "Cauldron" in front. And not far off.
    1. CORNET
      CORNET 18 June 2016 07: 52
      +8
      It’s always like this with us ... One Hasavyurt is worth ...
      1. oleg-gr
        oleg-gr 18 June 2016 09: 10
        +6
        This is not without reason. Another propaganda campaign is underway. Bandera, by definition, cannot say something normal about these agreements. Take Kuev is not necessary. The mode from the inside let it decay and decompose. To psheki feel all the charm of the created garbage.
        1. Roman 11
          Roman 11 18 June 2016 10: 04
          +3
          Quote: oleg-gr
          Take Kuev is not necessary.

          Guys are our Russian city, as well as Lviv and Chernihiv - let's not cover the native names of cities given once by our heroic ancestors, no matter what time is dominating there.
      2. The comment was deleted.
    2. The comment was deleted.
    3. siberalt
      siberalt 18 June 2016 08: 12
      +1
      "Miracle" is that "Minsk-2" after Debaltsevo, did not allow the militia to reach Kuev! laughing
      1. Horst78
        Horst78 18 June 2016 08: 47
        +3
        Quote: siberalt
        "Miracle" is that "Minsk-2" after Debaltsevo, did not allow the militia to reach Kuev!

        Well, we would have reached Kueva, and then what? DONBASS would then be responsible for the whole region, but did they need it? It's nice to say "Take Kuev" like that, but the whole country (including Banderastan) is behind him.
        1. Bramb
          Bramb 18 June 2016 09: 21
          +4
          Quote: Horst78
          Well, and would get to Kuev, and then?

          And then do what the current regime does not want to: do federalization and other laws. Regions will become republics and will manage all their income themselves, etc. Recognize all these basics and other illegal armed groups as gangsters and simply destroy them. And do not feed Bandera. Let them feed themselves.
          1. Horst78
            Horst78 18 June 2016 09: 56
            0
            Quote: Bramb
            And then do what the current regime does not want to: do federalization and other laws.

            Do you think "Banderostan" will suit it? I doubt it. To understand what is really going on there, one must not just be THERE, one must feel it in the blood. I have never been there, but I have their own blood. I can feel how they think.
      2. asiat_61
        asiat_61 18 June 2016 11: 43
        +1
        Maybe Putin soon? It's time to call a spade a spade.
    4. Pereira
      Pereira 18 June 2016 23: 31
      +1
      According to him, it turns out that the one who concluded the agreement on our part is a traitor who stole the victory from New Russia?
      1. Dry_T-50
        Dry_T-50 19 June 2016 12: 32
        0
        Quote: Pereira
        According to him, it turns out that the one who entered into agreements with our hand, is it a traitor who stole a victory from Novorossia?

        Popraka-we do not participate in the conflict
        Quote: Pereira
        According to him, it turns out that the one who entered into agreements on our part is a traitor who stole the victory from New Russia?

        There is no Novorossia. At least for the reason that no one recognized it. There are separate regions of the Donetsk and Lugansk region with a special order of self-government within Ukraine.
  2. Magic archer
    Magic archer 18 June 2016 07: 33
    +18
    If the REGULAR RUSSIAN ARMY went to the dill in the rear, then ALL of your government, including Lutsenko himself, would either be sitting in a jail or hanging on lampposts!
    1. Nikoha.2010
      Nikoha.2010 18 June 2016 07: 47
      +1
      Quote: Magic Archer
      If the REGULAR RUSSIAN ARMY came to the dill in the rear, then EVERYTHING

      Vladimir good day to you! hi If only, why would ... Where did such thoughts come from? We would be near Uzhgorod and so on ... Why? Unambiguously judge the Ukrainian junta! Everything is against Russia now. Yesterday was graduation day at grade 9, the anthem of Russia sounded! Everyone got up! I am proud to be born and live in Russia! And Ukraine is just sick! We just really push their foreheads! If necessary, I’ll go to war, well, not against mine. Ukraine must be treated!
      1. dmi.pris
        dmi.pris 18 June 2016 08: 11
        +6
        What, and most importantly, why? Young people, and the generation that grew up over 25 years of independence, have their own guides and their own, albeit imposed heroes. They should go this way (even those who curse this junta in the kitchens) Guys, you drank a beer in front of the box watching the reports from the Bardak. And should we come and treat someone? Or clean the toilet for you? It's you yourself ..
        1. Alexey-74
          Alexey-74 18 June 2016 09: 26
          0
          I agree. it’s too late to treat them .... this is another nation, with a different mentality and brought up on hostility towards Russia ... why do we need them? they made their choice a long time ago
      2. Magic archer
        Magic archer 18 June 2016 08: 27
        +6
        The treatment will not help here ... We missed a lot of time. I remember back in the 90 years when I first saw that una-unso propagated its ideology in Ukraine and the average age was 18-25. Time passed and they developed, grew stronger and here we are we see the result. Complete lawlessness and a fascist state. It’s only uprooting and burning with a hot iron! Otherwise, it’s useless to fight fascism!
      3. ALEA IACTA EST
        ALEA IACTA EST 18 June 2016 08: 49
        +1
        They are no longer their own and will not be their own for the next 500 years.
        1. Alexey-74
          Alexey-74 18 June 2016 09: 27
          +1
          like the Poles-the eternal enemies of Russia, although also the Slavs ....
          1. asiat_61
            asiat_61 18 June 2016 11: 51
            0
            I would like to doubt it.
        2. Roman 11
          Roman 11 18 June 2016 10: 10
          0
          Quote: ALEA IACTA EST
          They are no longer their own and will not be their own for the next 500 years.

          Gazprom will start gas on another branch, and no one will remember about such a state, at least the war will definitely round out.
          1. atalef
            atalef 18 June 2016 10: 17
            -3
            Quote: Novel 11
            Gazprom will start gas on another branch, and no one will remember about such a state, at least the war will definitely round out.

            How much does Ukraine earn on transit?
            Ukraine receives more than 100 million dollars a month for gas transit from Russia to Europe. This was told to reporters by the first deputy minister of energy and coal industry Igor Didenko, reports UNN.

            Xnumx billion bucks a year? 1 million euros
            How much is S.P.-2?
            According to preliminary data for June 2015, the cost of two new Nord Stream threads will be 9,9 billion euros. Of these, 70% will be raised in the form of project financing, and the rest will be allocated by shareholders [8].

            Ie pay off at least 13 -15 years tk do not forget that the operation of the gas transmission system of Ukraine on them and the joint venture -2 is already in Russia.
            So, without one lard bucks Ukraine just live.


            1. asiat_61
              asiat_61 18 June 2016 11: 54
              +2
              arithmetic !!! 9,9 and 1,2 billion Deuce to you in arithmetic.
      4. Woland
        Woland 18 June 2016 08: 49
        +1
        Yes Yes. Treat. Only in surgery.
      5. atalef
        atalef 18 June 2016 08: 51
        +7
        Quote: Nikoha.2010
        What for? Unambiguously judge the Ukrainian junta!

        In fact, Russia recognized that Poroshenko, that Radu.
        And the word of the Junta .. when did you hear it for the last time from officials or on the News program?
        Quote: Nikoha.2010
        We would be near Uzhgorod and so on.

        Were would .
    2. atalef
      atalef 18 June 2016 08: 32
      0
      Quote: Magic Archer
      If the REGULAR RUSSIAN ARMY went to the dill in the rear, then ALL of your government, including Lutsenko himself, would either be sitting in a jail or hanging on lampposts!

      But does Russia need it?
      1. Horst78
        Horst78 18 June 2016 08: 52
        +2
        Quote: atalef
        But does Russia need it?

        Exactly NONE. Got your "independence", HERE YOURSELF AND UNDERSTAND. drinks
  3. Barakuda
    Barakuda 18 June 2016 07: 33
    +10
    Lutsenko, I want to shoot. And someone else at the same time. U. r.odom was, and will remain.
    And this is not only my opinion. There are many of us here. Not everyone is ready to take up arms. But nonetheless.
    Do not fuck all and in vain Ukrainians, a lot of normal people. (Separatists by definition geyvlasti).
    1. Karasik
      Karasik 18 June 2016 08: 54
      +2
      Quote: Barracuda
      Do not fuck all and in vain Ukrainians, a lot of normal people. (Separatists by definition geyvlasti).

      I agree! There are Ukrainians, and there are Ukrainians. Completely different concepts.
      1. sherp2015
        sherp2015 18 June 2016 09: 27
        0
        Quote: Karasik
        I agree! There are Ukrainians, and there are Ukrainians. Completely different concepts.


        There are Slavic people, there are different ethnic groups.
        And there is a crazy literally and figuratively infected Zion-Bandera rabble
        1. SCHWERIN
          SCHWERIN 18 June 2016 10: 31
          +1
          Who can recognize them now? There is no NKVD ...
      2. Roman 11
        Roman 11 18 June 2016 10: 14
        +1
        Quote: Karasik
        I agree! There are Ukrainians, and there are Ukrainians

        Both those and others descended from Russians, then the sea was called Russian ...... I don’t remember ukroinsky laughing
        1. asiat_61
          asiat_61 18 June 2016 12: 00
          0
          I agree completely. I read the "brotherly" press.
  4. sl22277
    sl22277 18 June 2016 07: 37
    +3
    It was Petro Poroshenko in May 2014, who personally initiated the war against his fellow citizens in the east of the country. It is he who bears the main responsibility for this war.
    For human losses and for destroying Ukraine in a war which, as he now admits, cannot be won. The United States and NATO fueled this war, helped it with supplies, money and training, and helped escalate the conflict with Russia.
    Without this massive support from the West, the Kiev regime could never have launched this war, let alone continued it.
  5. Mountain shooter
    Mountain shooter 18 June 2016 07: 38
    +3
    The pogrom near Ilovaisk showed that the Armed Forces of Ukraine are not able to conduct meaningful military operations on any scale. Especially in large ones. Neither control, nor combat readiness, nor elementary observance of charters - so what, what else is Soviet. They are written with blood. Yes, that's good. Otherwise, the BCH would be more difficult.
    But Lutsenko is simple. And finish the same way. Impossible to imagine, the STATE prosecutor is a felon without a law degree! Well, what state are such prosecutors.
    1. atalef
      atalef 18 June 2016 07: 51
      0
      Quote: Mountain Shooter
      The pogrom near Ilovaisk showed that the Armed Forces of Ukraine are not able to conduct meaningful military operations on any scale. Especially in large ones. Neither management, nor combat readiness, nor elementary observance of charters

      The Minsk agreements showed the inability of the Ministry of Foreign Affairs of Russia and the will of its political leadership to complete successfully begun.

      A beautiful beginning and a shitty end.
      1. The comment was deleted.
        1. asiat_61
          asiat_61 18 June 2016 12: 05
          +2
          They prefer not to remember this.
      2. CORNET
        CORNET 18 June 2016 08: 13
        -4
        Quote: atalef
        Quote: Mountain Shooter
        The pogrom near Ilovaisk showed that the Armed Forces of Ukraine are not able to conduct meaningful military operations on any scale. Especially in large ones. Neither management, nor combat readiness, nor elementary observance of charters

        The Minsk agreements showed the inability of the Ministry of Foreign Affairs of Russia and the will of its political leadership to complete successfully begun.

        A beautiful beginning and a shitty end.

        Well, you are right, damn it .... I wanted the best .. It turned out as always!
      3. Yura
        Yura 18 June 2016 08: 28
        +2
        Quote: atalef
        A beautiful beginning and a shitty end.

        The end? belay You are confusing something, it was not there yet. Yes, of course it can be "shitty", but depending on who. hi
        1. atalef
          atalef 18 June 2016 08: 35
          +1
          Quote: Jura
          The end? You are confusing something, it has not yet been.

          Indeed, it is not yet, but the vector is clear
          Quote: Jura
          Yes, of course it can be "lousy", but depending on who.

          And what result do you see? wink
          1. DV69
            DV69 18 June 2016 08: 43
            -3
            Quote: atalef
            And what result do you see?

            And what do you offer Alexander. To bring in troops, to clean the territory, to receive, and quite justifiably, the status of the aggressor and the 30 million people who will shoot in the back of our army?
            And we need it?
            We did not organize the Maidan, and the country that was once called, though not for long, Ukraine was falling apart. This was done by the Ukrainian people themselves. Now this people has to restore order in the territory where it (the people) lives.
            1. atalef
              atalef 18 June 2016 08: 48
              +3
              Quote: DV69
              And what do you offer Alexander. Enter troops, clear territory

              I ? My opinion has long been known, with Donbass it was not necessary to start.
              Quote: DV69
              , get, and quite justified, the status of the aggressor and the millions of 30 people who will shoot in the back of our army?

              And now something else?
              Now there are 30 million people who hate Russia, and the status of the aggressor --- You probably have not heard what Juncker said at the forum in St. Petersburg?
              Quote: DV69
              Not we Maidan organized the country that was once called

              It’s not you who organized, but incompetently supported the thief Janek and then even more incompetently lost a friendly country

              Quote: DV69
              This was done by the Ukrainian people themselves. Now this people has to restore order in the territory where it (the people) lives.

              Have you been to Ukran? When is the last time?
              The bulk believes that the ATO - this is the restoration of order.
              1. DV69
                DV69 18 June 2016 09: 01
                +2
                Too shy to ask, when did you last visit to Ukraine?
                And why, if the bulk of the people considers the ATO to be putting things in order, the Ukrainian "waves of mobilization" have ended with the general desertion of Ukrainian citizens to neighboring countries, including the territory of the so-called. "aggressor"?
                I ask you again why did you decide that the events in the Donbass were initiated by Russia? And do not tell me about Girkin. I already wrote that I really want to understand his role, as well as with the interests of those who sent him there.
                Where do you get data on 30 million people who hate Russia?
                How did Russia support Yanukovych? By giving a loan, or by giving him asylum?
                1. atalef
                  atalef 18 June 2016 09: 27
                  +4
                  Quote: DV69
                  Too shy to ask, when did you last visit to Ukraine?

                  This year - 5 months ago, last year - it was 2 times, the year before last - 2 times - in this maybe I’ll move again (when the fat ends laughing )

                  Quote: DV69
                  And why, if the bulk of the people considers the ATO to be putting things in order, the Ukrainian "waves of mobilization" have ended with the general desertion of Ukrainian citizens to neighboring countries, including the territory of the so-called. "aggressor"?

                  If everything is so bad, then why is Zakharchenko still not in Kiev and who is fighting there (in the Armed Forces of Ukraine)?
                  Quote: DV69
                  I ask you again why did you decide that the events in the Donbass were initiated by Russia?

                  Is Girkin already Ukrainian?
                  Did he come there himself? And then the former miners sat down at the levers of tanks, air defense missile systems, Gradov and artifacts - and they started shooting.
                  The only question is if in the Donbass there are such specialists (miners and former Afghans laughing ) there was a dime a dozen, why didn’t they appear on the remaining Ukraine?
                  Strange concentration. Voespetsov with an Afghan past (as many claim) in individual cities
                  Quote: DV69
                  And do not tell me about Girkin.

                  And why ? He was absent ?
                  Quote: DV69
                  . I already wrote that I really want to understand his role, as well as with the interests of those who sent him there.

                  Yes, I’m absolutely on the side of what you wrote and how you want to deal with it. I am very far from the thought that a man comes alone laughing to a city that he’s not familiar with and where he can’t get his hands on weapons, equipment, logistics and communications, and most importantly a certain number of miners ready to fight for it.

                  Quote: DV69
                  Where do you get data on 30 million people who hate Russia?

                  Well, in general, in Ukraine 40 million, in general, I'm still optimistic.
                  Quote: DV69
                  How did Russia support Yanukovych?

                  Are you serious, or so, you include a fool?
                  Quote: DV69
                  By giving a loan, or by giving him asylum?

                  Good luck and good mood laughing
                  1. Roman 11
                    Roman 11 18 June 2016 10: 30
                    0
                    Quote: atalef
                    Is Girkin already Ukrainian?

                    Do not touch Strelkov - he is good laughing
                    1. atalef
                      atalef 18 June 2016 10: 38
                      +1
                      Quote: Novel 11
                      Do not touch Strelkov - he is good
                      1. asiat_61
                        asiat_61 18 June 2016 12: 19
                        0
                        That's exactly what they say in Washington.
                2. Roman 11
                  Roman 11 18 June 2016 10: 26
                  +2
                  Quote: DV69
                  How did Russia support Yanukovych? By giving a loan, or by giving him asylum?

                  Very perspicacious - they asked a question and immediately gave 2 correct answers laughing
              2. Roman 11
                Roman 11 18 June 2016 10: 22
                -1
                Quote: atalef
                The bulk believes that the ATO - this is the restoration of order.

                That's just it, "the bulk" - such is the fate. The gas will be shut off over time, and everything is heading towards this, the bulk can turn into an auxiliary ...
                1. atalef
                  atalef 18 June 2016 10: 25
                  +1
                  Quote: Novel 11
                  That's just it, "the bulk" - such is the fate

                  The bulk is the majority of the population.
                  Quote: Novel 11
                  The gas will be blocked over time, but everything goes to this,

                  Ukraine has not bought Russian gas for a year now
                  Quote: Novel 11
                  the bulk can turn into an auxiliary ....

                  Well, it didn’t.
              3. g1v2
                g1v2 18 June 2016 10: 33
                +7
                Ukraine was created as an enemy state, and it will never become friendly. Friendly Ukraine is an illusion. fool Without a military victory over it and taking full control of it, this is unrealistic. Its basis = the phrase "Ukraine, not Russia". For 25 years she blackmailed us and held tightly to the Faberge with three things - the Black Sea Fleet base, joining NATO and gas transit. The return of Crimea allowed us to get rid of the first two points of blackmail, the third point is already much weaker and sooner or later it will be buried either by the second northern, southern or Turkish streams. negative
                We didn’t start with the Donbass. Turchinov, who started the atom, was hardly led by the Kremlin. To think that the Kremlin sent to the Donbass for a special operation the head of the service of the oligarch Malofeev, the Swamp Limonovites, Babai with an outstanding conviction and Rovsites smacks of schizophrenia. Our participation began after the downing of a ukraine by a Boeing. It became clear that there are already sanctions and there is nothing to lose, and it is necessary to restore order. Well, that's it. The north wind blew for only two to three weeks. Minsk1 was our ultimatum to Piglet. He received it precisely because of what Lutsenko said - the southern front of the VSU was smashed to smithereens and the forces south of Donetsk no longer had forces. After which vacationers returned from vacation. An attempt to replay the situation led to the Debaltsevsky cauldron and a new ultimatum. There will be another attempt on the part of VSU - there will be a new Minsk and a new ultimatum. request
                About hate. Personally, over the past year I have trained about 30 interns from Ukraine and a couple from Donbass. There is no hatred even to Putin, who is being poured with mud in Ukrainian round-the-clock. Ukrainians hate fiercely only their government, and for everything, including the loss of Crimea. About half in conversations dreamed that some Yarosh with a machine gun would come to the Rada and interrupt everyone there, and then he would go to the piglet.
                To Russia, except in TV, there is no hatred - a maximum of resentment. So there is nothing that competent propaganda would not cope with. At the same time, everyone is ready to go to work in the Russian Federation - both patriots and svidomye to the marrow of bones. All Svidomo disappears when crossing the border, and if it makes itself felt, then only by a drunken bench.
                Well, personally, my opinion is that Ukraine as a state should disappear, and the entire territory should return to Russia. This is personally my Wishlist. Maybe it will come true - who knows. wink
                1. atalef
                  atalef 18 June 2016 10: 49
                  -3
                  Quote: g1v2
                  Ukraine was created as an enemy state, and it will never become friendly. Friendly Ukraine is an illusion

                  oddly enough, less than 6 years have passed, and everything that the Patriarch and Putin said is no longer just now perceived as a lie, but as an enemy dill propaganda

                  Quote: g1v2
                  Russia. ”For 25 years it blackmailed us and held fast to the Faberge with three things - the Black Sea Fleet base, joining NATO, and gas transit.

                  And about NATo - he lied wink
                  Quote: g1v2
                  . The return of Crimea allowed us to get rid of the first two points of blackmail,

                  Optimistic
                  57% of Ukrainians support EU accession
                  If the referendum on joining NATO took place today, 44% of Ukrainians would support such an entry. Only 27% voted against, another 11% would not have voted at all. 18% of respondents found it difficult to answer.

                  Quote: g1v2
                  We didn’t start with Donbass.

                  Well, yes Girkin came there from Kiev
                  Quote: g1v2
                  Our participation began after the downing of a ukraine by a Boeing

                  And the Buk, of course, was controlled by the miners wink
                  Quote: g1v2
                  Well, that’s what they did. The north wind blew only two to three weeks

                  C'mon, in Ukraine it’s kind of like ammunition is ending, but in the Donbass they are heaped up.

                  Quote: g1v2
                  Personally, over the past year I trained about 30 interns from Ukraine and a couple from Donbass. There is no hatred even to Putin, who is being poured with mud in Ukrainian round-the-clock.

                  Well, there wasn’t enough for them to talk about this while in Russia.
                  Quote: g1v2
                  All Svidomo disappears when crossing the border, and if it makes itself felt, then only by a drunken bench.

                  Well, sober mind, then drunk on the tongue
                  1. g1v2
                    g1v2 18 June 2016 12: 44
                    +3
                    Politicians say what needs to be said at the moment. Is always. At the same time, Putin said that we and Ukrainians are ONE PEOPLE, not fraternal or friendly, but just one.
                    As for NATO, it was the first time Kravchuk spoke about joining NATO. Kuchma talked about moving toward NATO. It’s stupid to even mention Yushchenko. Where is the lie - xs?
                    THIS IS NOT OPTIMISM, but REALISM. The Black Sea Fleet is now ours and no one will be able to drive us out in 2017 or in any other, because we no longer have to pay discounts and loans for it. COUNTRIES THAT HAVE TERRITORIAL PROBLEMS CANNOT ENTRY IN NATO, and Ukraine will never give up claims to the Crimea, so it will not be able to enter there, so that no one speaks.
                    Where did Girkin come from is not an important issue. The question is how he crossed the Ukrainian border, controlled at that time by Ukrainians and why he was not detained. But I repeat, if you think that instead of the militia and gru, Putin sent the head of the oligarch’s security service, petty criminal and the armed Russian opposition to Donbass, and even gave them a beech, then you need to seriously heal. Do not run, or else schizophrenia is not far away. And by the way, why then a beech, and not a couple of iskander? And why, for example, not in Kharkov or Odessa?
                    The beech was managed by servicemen of the 156th anti-aircraft missile regiment of the airborne regiment, not the miners. By plane - pilot 299th tactical aviation brigade (Nikolaev (Kulbakino)). Who eventually shot down, you can find out only after an independent examination, as missiles have different damaging elements. To think that the Kremlin will provide its opposition with a blood circulation is a sure step towards schizophrenia. I repeat - do not start, turn to specialists.
                    Regarding ammunition, I advise you to look in the internet for such names - Lugansk cartridge plant and Tochmash. By the way, both of them tried to destroy both of them with dots. On many videos on cartridge cases, the inscription Lugansk cartridge factory is easy to read. You will find it easy, but if necessary, then naturally we’ll throw it in the required numbers. It's just that everything can already be produced locally.
                    And as for the conversations, then my trainees for Russia did not confess their love to Russia, if you are talking about this. Everyone is offended, BUT HATE IS NOT AND CLOSE. And everyone is sure that our troops are fighting against them. Ipro the crucified boy everyone asked. Like, was there a boy. To my answer, whether there was Odessa and 47 people who were burnt alive, dramatically changed the topic of conversation. By the way, the majority at the World Cup in 2018 promised to come, if possible. Well, competent propaganda and strength solve all problems. It will be necessary and Yarosh will tell that he fought underground for the Russian world. hi
                2. asiat_61
                  asiat_61 18 June 2016 12: 28
                  +1
                  I agree with the end. Ukraine as a part of Russia KAK Tataria, or Chechnya.
              4. asiat_61
                asiat_61 18 June 2016 12: 11
                -1
                It is strange that the leadership of Ukraine (with a small letter) is mostly Jews.
            2. sherp2015
              sherp2015 18 June 2016 09: 46
              +1
              Quote: DV69
              30 million people who will shoot in the back of our army?


              Well, you grabbed ...
            3. asiat_61
              asiat_61 18 June 2016 12: 09
              0
              Did you try to turn on your head? It's a pity.
          2. Yura
            Yura 18 June 2016 08: 52
            +2
            Quote: atalef
            And what result do you see?

            If you look at the question a little wider than this country is, I don’t see the end at all yet, there’s only good in general. This is not only about Ukraine or us, it's about everyone. Look at what our planet has become like, a cutting board and a hammer for chopping meat into steaks. Alexander, you would know how I want to live and see with my own eyes when these with a hammer will answer and get for everything.
        2. Pereira
          Pereira 19 June 2016 00: 24
          0
          Atalef is right.
          Our power holders are liquidated. Instead of victory and sanctions, everyone soon received sanctions and an indelible disgrace to them. The deaths of our compatriots in the Donbass lie, among other things, on the conscience of Putin, who was scared at the most crucial, crucial moment.
      4. SPACE
        SPACE 18 June 2016 08: 30
        -1
        Quote: atalef
        the Minsk agreements showed the inability of the Ministry of Foreign Affairs of Russia and the will of its political leadership to complete successfully begun

        I wonder what purpose you are talking about, which you had to complete successfully started?
        1. atalef
          atalef 18 June 2016 08: 37
          -3
          Quote: SPACE
          I wonder what purpose you are talking about, which you had to complete successfully started?

          What was planned was to tear the entire south from Ukraine, cut off from the sea and connect with Transnistria.
          They thought to raise local personnel (as in the Crimea) - but alas.
          And now, a suitcase without a handle.
          1. DV69
            DV69 18 June 2016 08: 44
            +3
            Quote: atalef
            about what was planned, to tear the whole south from Ukraine, cut off from the sea and connect with Transnistria.
            They thought to raise local personnel (as in the Crimea) - but alas.
            And now, a suitcase without a handle.

            And where did you get this information? GDP personally called you and told you everything?
            1. atalef
              atalef 18 June 2016 08: 54
              +1
              Quote: DV69
              And where did you get this information? GDP personally called you and told you everything?

              Well, you don't have to be seven spans in the forehead. In general, where did the Novorossiya project come from? Talk about the original Russian lands, and what borders were not drawn do not remember?
              Or do you think that all the fuss began exclusively for these two bits of Lugansk and Donetsk region?
              1. DV69
                DV69 18 June 2016 09: 17
                +4
                Quote: atalef
                Well, you don't have to be seven spans in the forehead. In general, where did the Novorossiya project come from? Talk about the original Russian lands, and what borders were not drawn do not remember?
                Or do you think that all the fuss began exclusively for these two bits of Lugansk and Donetsk region?

                Well, now let's go in order: In my deepest conviction, the entire territory of the so-called Ukraine is a Russian land (I hope that you will not repeat all the nonsense about the "ancient Ukrainian people" and its ancestor ukre?)
                Further. Almost the entire territory that Svidomo considered Ukrainian was obtained by them as a result of the transfer to the Ukrainian SSR of a part of the territories of the RSFSR, as well as territories previously part of Austria-Hungary, Poland and Romania. Therefore, I remember what borders were drawn by the press, I just don’t remember what officials drew these borders.
                And yet, all the fuss there because of flying time and the likely deployment of positional areas.
                And in general it turns out interesting, the Israeli defense army can bomb the territories of neighboring states when the Israeli leadership sees the formation of a potential threat on the territory of these states, and the Russian leadership cannot deliver humanitarian aid to neighboring territories when Russians are killed there. So what?
                1. atalef
                  atalef 18 June 2016 09: 58
                  +3
                  Quote: DV69
                  Well, now let's take it in order: In my deepest conviction, the whole territory of the so-called Ukraine is the Russian land

                  You have to convince Ukrainians of this laughing
                  Quote: DV69
                  (I hope that you will not repeat all the nonsense about the "ancient Ukrainian people" and its ancestor ukre?)

                  I will talk about Ukraine, a recognized member of the world community, a member of the United Nations, recognized by Russia and having diplomatic relations and borders with it.
                  The people who speak Ukrainian and believe in their history (no less than you believe in yours)

                  Quote: DV69
                  Further. Almost the entire territory that Svidomo considered Ukrainian was obtained by them as a result of the transfer to the Ukrainian SSR of part of the territories of the RSFSR, as well as territories previously included in Austria-Hungary, Poland and Romania.

                  Blah blah blah - worthless and irrelevant nonsense
                  Crimea was under the Turks many times longer. than under Russia. Kaliningrad has always been Keniksberg, Astrakhan and Kazan, and so I can continue.
                  What and how does not matter - only one thing plays a role - Russia recognized Ukraine as a separate state in sovereign borders and pledged to be the guarantor of its territorial integrity according to the Budapest memorandum
                  Quote: DV69
                  And in general it turns out interesting, the Israel Defense Forces can bomb the territories of neighboring states when the Israeli leadership sees the formation of a potential threat on the territory of these states

                  Of course you can - we are at war (if you mean Syria)
                  Russia declares about Ukraine. that we have nothing to do with it, we don’t supply weapons. troops - no. well, etc. you know.
                  Well, and the main question is not to be as bad as us - aggressors, there is one people with you

                  Quote: DV69
                  and the leadership of Russia, nhumanitarian aid must not be delivered to adjacent territory when Russians are being killed there. So what?

                  I already wrote about this - for some reason, they kill only where humanitarian aid goes, in other regions of Ukraine are there Russians? Why not kill?
                  1. DV69
                    DV69 18 June 2016 10: 45
                    -1
                    Quote: atalef
                    Of course you can - we are at war (if you mean Syria)

                    I have in mind not only Syria, but also Levan and Palestine. Or are you at war with them too?
                    Quote: atalef
                    I already wrote about this - for some reason, they kill only where humanitarian aid goes, in other regions of Ukraine are there Russians? Why not kill?

                    Well, yes, they don’t kill in other areas. Are they burned there, or do you think they really burned themselves?
                    Quote: atalef
                    Crimea was under the Turks many times longer. than under Russia. Kaliningrad has always been Keniksberg, Astrakhan and Kazan, and so I can continue.

                    Well, if the international community insists, we will be forced to deal with Ukraine as with Keniksberg, do you remember the reason why it was joined?
                    And yet, the Russian people never recognized Ukraine, it was recognized by someone Yeltsin, when in the Belovezhskaya Pushcha he squeezed out a chair in the Kremlin because of the blue of sadness.
                    1. atalef
                      atalef 18 June 2016 10: 55
                      0
                      Quote: DV69
                      I mean not only Syria, but Levan and Palestine

                      Лиvan - are we the same at war, and the state of Palestine? Is there such a thing?
                      Quote: DV69
                      Well, yes, they don’t kill in other areas. Are they burned there, or do you think they really burned themselves?

                      In addition to Odessa (which was perfectly invested in the outline of the beginning of a type of popular uprising, by the way, why don’t you remember Kharkov? It’s also not clear where the group came from and seized the administration, but people didn’t like it) are there examples? Or are there only Russians living there?
                      Quote: DV69
                      Well, if the international community insists, we will be forced to deal with Ukraine as with Keniksberg,

                      Well yes, already ..
                      Quote: DV69
                      And yet, the Russian people never recognized Ukraine

                      What are you saying belay
                      1. DV69
                        DV69 18 June 2016 11: 09
                        +1
                        Quote: atalef
                        and the state of Palestine? Is there such a thing?

                        And what, is the de facto state of Ukraine today?
                      2. atalef
                        atalef 18 June 2016 11: 26
                        +1
                        Quote: DV69
                        Quote: atalef
                        and the state of Palestine? Is there such a thing?

                        And what, is the de facto state of Ukraine today?

                        De facto?
                        From the point of view of international law, it is no different from any other state.
                      3. Ruslan67
                        Ruslan67 18 June 2016 11: 31
                        +3
                        Quote: atalef
                        De facto?

                        That's just the worse with it. It's de jure it is a state. In fact, in Zimbabwe there is more order and logic
                      4. atalef
                        atalef 18 June 2016 11: 37
                        +1
                        Quote: Ruslan67
                        That's just the worse with it. It's de jure it is a state. In fact, in Zimbabwe there is more order and logic

                        I don’t know I was not in Zimbabwe (although it’s possible to get to work in Angola) - but in general, I don’t know how to Zimbabwe (and you don’t know) - but I often visit Kiev (and you know the same thing) , everything is quiet.
                      5. Ruslan67
                        Ruslan67 18 June 2016 11: 47
                        +1
                        Quote: atalef
                        although it’s possible to get to Angola for work

                        And there is nothing closer?
                        Quote: atalef
                        I do not know how in Zimbabwe

                        Heat yes But there is no stability request
                        Quote: atalef
                        - but in Kiev

                        Quote: atalef
                        everything is quiet.

                        In Peter and Haifa it will be somehow calmer Yes and more comfortable laughing
                      6. atalef
                        atalef 18 June 2016 11: 53
                        0
                        Quote: Ruslan67
                        And there is nothing closer?

                        I would prefer Switzerland or Monaco - but unfortunately, really Angola (we are modernizing the energy system to them)
                        Quote: Ruslan67
                        Heat But no stability

                        Have a good mood !!!!
                        Quote: Ruslan67
                        In Peter and Haifa it will be somehow calmer Yes and more comfortable

                        That's for sure, but what fat is there !!!!!
            2. 33 Watcher
              33 Watcher 18 June 2016 11: 46
              -1
              Quote: atalef

              Lebanon - are we the same at war, and the state of Palestine? Is there such a thing?

              Palestinians are much worse than Ukrainians. They should not be convinced, and they have no language. And no double standards.

              PS And to refer to the UN from under the Israeli flag, is ... At least the limesche, at least!
            3. atalef
              atalef 18 June 2016 11: 55
              0
              Quote: Observer 33
              Palestinians are much worse than Ukrainians

              Of course
              Quote: Observer 33
              They should not be convinced, and they have no language.

              Why? By the way, for all the wars with palaces (more than 50 years), they died in less than 2 years in Ukraine.
              Quote: Observer 33
              PS And to refer to the UN from under the Israeli flag, is ... At least the limesche, at least!

              Decrypt.
            4. 33 Watcher
              33 Watcher 18 June 2016 13: 11
              +1
              Quote: atalef
              Unscramble

              They began to forget the language? Well this happens to your brother often.
              From the point of view of the UN, the Syrian-Israeli border looks different than now. So maybe it’s not worth YOU HERE to refer to the UN?
  • 33 Watcher
    33 Watcher 18 June 2016 11: 39
    0
    Quote: atalef
    Well, you don’t have to be seven spans in the forehead.

    Well i.e. still come up with? We came up with this and stand ... Ch.T.D.
  • Cat man null
    Cat man null 18 June 2016 09: 01
    -2
    Quote: atalef
    Quote: SPACE
    I wonder what purpose you are talking about, which you had to complete successfully started?

    What was planned was to tear the entire south from Ukraine, cut off from the sea and connect with Transnistria.
    They thought to raise local personnel (as in the Crimea) - but alas.
    And now, a suitcase without a handle.

    Alexander .. brings you, hike ...

    If it was planned (dreams, dreams) - it would be so wink

    If about "cemodan" - this is the LDNR unfinished .. well, how to say ... everything is verified there .. the term is, military, yeah fellow
    1. atalef
      atalef 18 June 2016 09: 29
      +2
      Quote: Cat Man Null
      Alexander .. brings you, hike ...

      No, it’s absolutely logical.
      Quote: Cat Man Null
      If it was planned (dreams, dreams) - it would be so

      Right now, that’s how everything that is planned is done.
      Rum, based on history and statistics - somehow I doubt your words


      Quote: Cat Man Null
      If about "cemodan" - this is the LDNR unfinished .. well, how to say ... everything is verified there .. the term is, military, yeah

      suitcase laughing , freaking translit, unravel the answer, as I did not understand. hi
  • family tree
    family tree 18 June 2016 09: 10
    +2
    Hi Sanya hi Do you think it was planned? Crimea was still pulled for money, but as for the whole south, I doubt it. And the Donbass, in general, is a gift, cynical, but all this camarilla could fall to the Crimea, and there would definitely be a full-fledged war game, with all the consequences, as well as gemmore to Kiev, and who said that if the banderlogs kill, then the killed will be silent in a rag?
    1. atalef
      atalef 18 June 2016 09: 36
      +3
      Quote: perepilka
      Hi Sanya

      Hello Volodya hi

      Quote: perepilka
      Crimea was still pulled for money, but as for the whole south, I doubt it.

      Nobody thought about this, then sanctions were not yet on the agenda, there was enough money, Crimea slipped into the light, they thought it would pass, but in general they thought. that the West will swallow both with Abkhazia and Ossetia.
      It did not pass.

      Quote: perepilka
      And Donbass, generally a gift,

      Another gift. laughing
      Quote: perepilka
      but all this camarilla could fall to the Crimea, and here it would be like a full-fledged war game,

      Which fall? Who would have fought in the Armed Forces of Ukraine at that time? Anyway, how do you imagine?
      Quote: perepilka
      and so, hemorrhoid Kiev,

      It is not known to whom this hemorrhoid is greater
      Quote: perepilka
      and who said that if banderlogs will kill, then those killed will be silent in a rag

      It’s strange. that they kill, for some reason, only there. where they * Russian) came to save.
      But my mother-in-law in Kiev, for some reason, no one is touching, and the parents of many friends from Ukraine, and in general I feel the same. at least twice a year, arriving in Kiev and not knowing a single word on the mov.
      I'm so kind of general 100% target for Bander, a Jew with Russian citizenship. not speaking ukrainian laughing
      1. Ruslan67
        Ruslan67 18 June 2016 09: 43
        +3
        Quote: atalef
        I'm so kind of general 100% target for Bander, a Jew with Russian citizenship. not speaking ukrainian

        Have you seen yourself in the mirror? laughing You can jam the Abrams tower sad
        Hi all, drinks
        1. CORNET
          CORNET 18 June 2016 09: 52
          -2
          Quote: Ruslan67
          Quote: atalef
          I'm so kind of general 100% target for Bander, a Jew with Russian citizenship. not speaking ukrainian

          Have you seen yourself in the mirror? laughing You can jam the Abrams tower sad
          Hi all, drinks

          You don’t run into Atalef, crawl ... it writes normally! (Otherwise I can go from the rear ..))))) bully
          1. Ruslan67
            Ruslan67 18 June 2016 09: 58
            +2
            Quote: CORNET
            Don’t run into Atalef,

            belay I AM?! On him ?! We are going to build a St. Petersburg brotherhood with him the next time, and you’re talking about some assaults fool
            Quote: CORNET
            ! (otherwise I can go from the rear ..)))))

            Get away nasty repeat wassat
        2. atalef
          atalef 18 June 2016 09: 59
          +1
          Quote: Ruslan67
          Have you seen yourself in the mirror?

          Today, yes laughing
          Quote: Ruslan67
          You can jam the Abrams tower

          laughing
          Quote: Ruslan67
          Hi all,

          Hello myself laughing hi
          1. Ruslan67
            Ruslan67 18 June 2016 10: 02
            +2
            Quote: atalef
            Today, yes

            So how is it? Reflection to hell did not send? laughing
            1. atalef
              atalef 18 June 2016 10: 11
              +2
              Quote: Ruslan67
              Quote: atalef
              Today, yes

              So how is it? Reflection to hell did not send? laughing

              Yes, no, yesterday, brother-in-law came drinks (by the way, he is from Simferopol laughing )
              ate half a kilo of fat and drank a liter of pervak
              1. Ruslan67
                Ruslan67 18 June 2016 10: 15
                +2
                Quote: atalef
                ate half a kilo of fat and drank a liter of pervak

                belay Check galoshes yes From all this you can expect sad wassat
              2. atalef
                atalef 18 June 2016 10: 26
                +1
                Quote: Ruslan67
                Quote: atalef
                ate half a kilo of fat and drank a liter of pervak

                belay Check galoshes yes From all this you can expect sad wassat

                Checked you were right wassat
                Gone in my Crocs laughing
              3. Ruslan67
                Ruslan67 18 June 2016 10: 31
                +2
                Quote: atalef
                , You were right

                yes I also have brother-in-law request laughing
              4. atalef
                atalef 18 June 2016 10: 50
                0
                Quote: Ruslan67
                Quote: atalef
                , You were right

                yes I also have brother-in-law request laughing

                Take care galoshes, shuryaki they are wassat
              5. Ruslan67
                Ruslan67 18 June 2016 10: 58
                +1
                Quote: atalef
                Take care of galoshes

                You won’t get away with my galoshes and fat: the fifth year does not work am only plays toys at the computer fool Goat!
              6. atalef
                atalef 18 June 2016 11: 26
                0
                Quote: Ruslan67
                only plays toys at the computer

                In tanchiki or what?
              7. Ruslan67
                Ruslan67 18 June 2016 11: 28
                +1
                Quote: atalef
                In tanchiki or what?

                In all crap fool
              8. atalef
                atalef 18 June 2016 11: 37
                0
                Quote: Ruslan67
                In all crap

                Yes, it’s difficult. For the galoshes are intact laughing
  • family tree
    family tree 18 June 2016 10: 16
    +1
    Well, damn it, Ukraine is not the Caucasus, where it has long been ripe.
    Ruslan, Vitalik, be healthy. Sanya did not say hello, health. I’m bragging, I got on the last day before my vacation under check, RZiAshnikov admitted and the chief engineer arrived, later on suddenly. He looked and appointed an excellent student in PTB. Right now, I’m thinking, why the hell is this for me, less than a year before retirement
    1. Ruslan67
      Ruslan67 18 June 2016 10: 21
      +2
      Quote: perepilka
      . Looked and appointed an excellent student in PTB

      Okay, at least not my beloved wife laughing
      1. atalef
        atalef 18 June 2016 10: 28
        +1
        Quote: Ruslan67
        Quote: perepilka
        . Looked and appointed an excellent student in PTB

        Okay, at least not my beloved wife laughing

        Anticipated, Sinister sad
      2. Ruslan67
        Ruslan67 18 June 2016 10: 29
        +1
        Quote: atalef
        Anticipated, Sinister

        tongue
      3. CORNET
        CORNET 18 June 2016 10: 42
        -2
        Quote: Ruslan67
        Quote: atalef
        Anticipated, Sinister

        tongue

        Already got drunk .... Ruslan ???? drinks (change avatar ..))))
      4. Ruslan67
        Ruslan67 18 June 2016 10: 46
        +1
        Quote: CORNET
        (change avatar ..))))

        He is dear to me as a memory request
        Quote: CORNET
        Already got drunk

        Have you poured me? angry laughing
      5. CORNET
        CORNET 18 June 2016 10: 50
        0
        Quote: Ruslan67
        Quote: CORNET
        (change avatar ..))))

        He is dear to me as a memory request
        Quote: CORNET
        Already got drunk

        Have you poured me? angry laughing

        And I would pour and watch ....))))) Where are you crawling all the time ..? laughing
      6. family tree
        family tree 18 June 2016 11: 36
        -1
        Oops, you have to give the blacksmiths an assignment, so that the order of the tinned snow polisher of the Arctic will be bound by tomorrow
  • family tree
    family tree 18 June 2016 10: 34
    +1
    Yes, it’s normal, he always comes with a secretary, or he disguises himself, but not a female a mile away, he didn’t lose his scent yet what
  • atalef
    atalef 18 June 2016 10: 28
    0
    Quote: perepilka
    Looked and appointed an excellent student in PTB


    wink
    1. family tree
      family tree 18 June 2016 10: 54
      0
      Well, damn it, it's funny, but for now I turned around with NTMI with a PZ in my cell, my back went crazy, I’m lying around for a while, otherwise the fig would have drawn
  • DV69
    DV69 18 June 2016 10: 46
    -1
    Quote: atalef
    Nobody thought about it.

    Well yes. Goyim can not think
    1. atalef
      atalef 18 June 2016 10: 56
      +1
      Quote: DV69
      Quote: atalef
      Nobody thought about it.

      Well yes. Goyim can not think

      Himself said laughing
      1. DV69
        DV69 18 June 2016 11: 11
        0
        Quote: atalef
        Himself said

        Rather quoted one "God's chosen people"
        1. atalef
          atalef 18 June 2016 11: 27
          0
          Quote: DV69
          Quote: atalef
          Himself said

          Rather quoted one "God's chosen people"

          Give a link to the original? wink
  • Roman 11
    Roman 11 18 June 2016 10: 47
    0
    Quote: atalef
    I'm so kind of generally 100% goal for bander

    You are probably shy, as soon as you see the Nazis immediately change the route? laughing
    1. Ruslan67
      Ruslan67 18 June 2016 11: 09
      +2
      Quote: Novel 11
      as soon as you see the Nazis immediately change the route?

      Exactly yes changes for him and hell that they were going to the market: it says in the bath! am So in the bath !!!
      1. atalef
        atalef 18 June 2016 11: 28
        0
        Quote: Ruslan67
        Quote: Novel 11
        as soon as you see the Nazis immediately change the route?

        Exactly yes changes for him and hell that they were going to the market: it says in the bath! am So in the bath !!!

        1. Ruslan67
          Ruslan67 18 June 2016 11: 38
          +1
          yes good repeat laughing
          And there are two of us with brother-in-law wink And look if sober like a gopnik's dream winked wassat
  • DV69
    DV69 18 June 2016 10: 50
    +1
    Quote: DV69
    But my mother-in-law in Kiev, for some reason, no one is touching, and the parents of many friends from Ukraine, and in general I feel the same. at least twice a year, arriving in Kiev and not knowing a single word on the mov.
    I'm so kind of general 100% target for Bander, a Jew with Russian citizenship. not speaking ukrainian

    You dear mistaken, they are also killed there, only slowly. Salaries are falling, prices are rising, it is already impossible to pay a communal apartment for retirement.
    And as for a Jew with Russian citizenship ... So they have a president there - a Jew with Russian business, who, mind you, still pays taxes in Russia regularly. And neither of which, somehow ruled, did not banderlog him hi
    1. atalef
      atalef 18 June 2016 10: 59
      +1
      Quote: DV69
      You, dear, are mistaken, they are also killed there, only slowly. Payrolls are falling, prices are rising, it is impossible to pay a communal apartment for retirement.

      So why did you come to piss Russians?
      He has low pensions and housing and communal services? Can you start with your own?
      1. DV69
        DV69 18 June 2016 11: 06
        0
        Quote: atalef
        So why did you come to piss Russians?
        He has low pensions and housing and communal services? Can you start with your own?

        Well, firstly, have not yet arrived. Secondly, our pensions are indexed by us every year, albeit not by much, but my mother’s pension increased by 2012 thousand from 2015 to 5. I agree not quickly and not much, but growing.
        And yet, while the authorities were about whom Slepakov was singing a song, for some reason, sanctions were not imposed on us.
        1. atalef
          atalef 18 June 2016 11: 33
          +2
          Quote: DV69
          Secondly, our pensions are indexed by us every year, albeit not by much, but my mother’s pension increased from 2012 to 2015 by 5 thousand. I agree not quickly and not much, but growing.

          Good luck and good mood
          By the way 5tr, how much is% of the main part of the pension?
          Quote: DV69
          And yet, while the authorities were about whom Slepakov was singing a song, for some reason, sanctions were not imposed on us.

          Nothing, after 9 years when he returns - they will remove laughing
  • SPACE
    SPACE 18 June 2016 09: 16
    +1
    Quote: atalef
    What was planned was to tear the entire south from Ukraine, cut off from the sea and connect with Transnistria.
    They thought to raise local personnel (as in the Crimea) - but alas.

    As a rule, they plan their own actions, but this is not enough, they still needed to be released, which was not clearly visible. Without counting the Crimea, everything else would have looked like an adventure.
    Another thing was assumed to be the natural course of events, interference in which was not particularly required, by the way, the junta’s actions really, as expected, somewhat restrained this process, but did not stop Lugansk and Donbass. And even from the outside, everything is quite predictable and regular, as in chess, an outside observer with boredom sees and understands the possibilities, action and development of events, including in the future, both from the white and black sides, it was clear from the beginning that this long game.
    Quote: atalef
    And now, a suitcase without a handle.

    A suitcase without a handle is Ukraine itself without the Crimea, also without the wheels of Donbass.
    Z.Y. Ukraine in two of the three expected states will not suit either the United States or Russia, but both players will be satisfied with its third state ... so the ruin will continue to fall.
    1. atalef
      atalef 18 June 2016 09: 43
      +3
      Quote: SPACE
      As a rule, they plan their own actions, but this is not enough, they still needed to be released, which was not clearly visible.

      In Crimea, implemented, with the complete silence of the local, why not continue in the southeastern regions of Ukraine?
      Quote: SPACE
      Without counting the Crimea, everything else would look like an adventure.

      It seems so to you, but in case of luck. imagine what a geopolitical gain
      Ukraine is cut off from the sea, Transnistria gives direct access to the west.
      But alas, they thought the people would accept, but did not pass.
      With the DPR and LPR, in general, the bulk of Russia broke, if not for the volunteers and Voentorg (with regular troops, I am sure of this
      http://www.atlanticcouncil.org/images/publications/Hiding_in_Plain_Sight/HPS_Rus
      sian.pdf) - neither the DNI nor the LC would have existed for a long time.

      Quote: SPACE
      And even from the outside, everything is quite predictable and regular, as in chess, an observer with boredom sees and understands the possibilities, the action and the development of events, including in the future, both from the white and the black, it was clear from the beginning that this long the game.

      In the upper circles of Russia and in a terrible dream they did not expect what would end with what is now.
      Namely - the sanctions, the downed Boeing, the collapse of the economy, the content of the DNI and LC, etc. etc.

      Quote: SPACE
      A suitcase without a handle is Ukraine itself without the Crimea, also without the wheels of Donbass.

      Well, what is Crimea - you yourself see, but about the Donbass. if they are so rich and feed Ukraine, why do they live so poorly?
      1. SPACE
        SPACE 18 June 2016 10: 11
        0
        Quote: atalef

        In Crimea, implemented, with the complete silence of the local, why it was not continued in the southeastern regions of Ukraine

        Logics! Smart, but rational people, as a rule, are not far-sighted, apparently Israel is such a small and dependent country. It seems so))) Geopolitical gain, and what’s wrong, maybe everything here is irrational, not subject to your understanding, as always throughout the history of Russia ...;)
        Quote: atalef
        In the upper circles of Russia and in a terrible dream they did not expect what would end with what is now.
        Namely - the sanctions, the downed Boeing, the collapse of the economy, the content of the DNI and LC, etc. etc.

        Only naive people can say that fools are sitting in the Kremlin.
        Difficulties were expected during the Maidan, still in the plan for the Crimea.
        1. atalef
          atalef 18 June 2016 10: 16
          0
          Quote: SPACE
          Logics! Smart, but rational people, as a rule, are not far-sighted, apparently Israel is such a small and dependent country. It seems so)))

          maybe we will not break away from the topic?
          Quote: SPACE
          to confirm that fools are sitting in the Kremlin, only naive people can.

          And no one talks about fools, but to assert that everything planned in the Kremlin is coming true. fulfilled and realized - only an absolutely naive person can.
          I would even say that most of what was announced by the Kremlin was a failure in its entirety, while water is like smart people laughing
          Quote: SPACE
          Difficulties were expected during the Maidan, still in the plan for the Crimea.

          Expand the answer.
          1. SPACE
            SPACE 18 June 2016 10: 46
            0
            Quote: atalef
            And no one talks about fools, but to assert that everything planned in the Kremlin is coming true. fulfilled and realized - only an absolutely naive person can.

            Neither you nor anyone can exactly know what the Kremlin intended or not. You can think and build plans as much as you like and expect the same in others, but this is all Wishlist. The logic of circumstances is always stronger than the logic of intentions, you cannot jump above your head, piss against the wind and realize the impossible, but you can use the circumstances to your advantage, it was the American Maidan that, with some adjustments, led to the Crimea and the Donbass and dug a channel for the river of future events ... Failed ))), here you can argue with anyone. In general, the Kremlin is magnificent in its simulated impotence and third-person management of events, it is not a trivial task to bring the situation into the zone with someone else’s hands, giving any decision in their favor.
            Z.Y. We just look, put ourselves in the place of the players, determine the possibilities, compare the actions with the result and draw conclusions ...
            1. atalef
              atalef 18 June 2016 11: 04
              +1
              Quote: SPACE
              Neither you nor anyone can know exactly what the Kremlin intended or not

              That's for sure, all that they say, but nothing comes out - this is not what they conceived - but what then? belay
              Quote: SPACE
              You can think and build plans as much as you like and expect the same in others, but this is all Wishlist.

              Of course - and the people then believe laughing
              Quote: SPACE
              The logic of circumstances is always stronger than the logic of intentions, you cannot jump above your head, piss against the wind and realize the impossible, but you can use the circumstances to your advantage

              again blah blah blah
              Quote: SPACE
              In general, the Kremlin is magnificent in its simulated impotent and third-person management of events, it’s not a trivial task to bring the situation into the zone by someone else’s hands, giving any solution in their favor

              indeed, not a single American died in Ukraine, America is not under sanctions and even (according to the statement of the GDP - the only superpower) - but Ukraine is already lying and has spread its legs.
              laughing
              1. SPACE
                SPACE 18 June 2016 12: 09
                -1
                Quote: atalef
                indeed, not a single American died in Ukraine, America is not under sanctions, and yes

                Do you actually understand that all these troubles have done the United States? And not only in Ukraine. What do you justify their actions and the actions of Bandera jumpers?
                Or do you think their methods are acceptable? Type ends justify the means. If so, then your morality and psyche are completely violated. Although I think you have to defend and justify them, because you exist in their measurement system.
                In general, from the point of view of absolute righteousness, the USA, you, the Ukrainian government and the West, unfortunately, are, no doubt, on the dark side of history, the inhuman abomination they create cannot lead to anything good, and not only in relation to the victim, but also to you. History really teaches you nothing! As Putin subtly joked here recently, "thanks to Russia, Israel knows Russian, but soon, thanks to Israel, Russia will know Hebrew"))) such a subtle hint of fat circumstances. The law says, to those who do evil, history has the same answer, naive descendants, for thousands of years they did not understand, but you are not the first and you are not the last ...

                They are the first to proactively act, on foreign territories, to break in someone else’s yard, not to build, using at the same time all the levers they have in control of the world, sanctions, military methods and even sports ... which Russia does not have fully and why naturally loses. And then what? The force of action, will give rise to the power of reaction, then some will not be laughing ...;)
              2. atalef
                atalef 18 June 2016 12: 31
                +1
                Quote: SPACE
                Do you actually understand that all these troubles have done the United States?

                The source of all the troubles is the criminal regime of Janek and not the intelligible policy of Russia, and not to take advantage of this, one must be a fool.

                Quote: SPACE
                . What are you justifying their actions?

                The actions of whom? America? I understand them, I don’t understand Russia, how could I have fooled my closest friend and ally
                Quote: SPACE
                actions of Bandera jumpers?

                I do not think that there were only Bandera on the Maidan.
                But as with any revolution and mess - foam and turbidity rises to the top. Of course, I am against praising both Bandera and Shushkevich.
                I do not think that all of Ukraine is Bandera and Ps.
                I would even say that in 2 I did not see the last trips in Kiev of the Right Sector at all.
                Quote: SPACE
                History really doesn’t teach you anything!
                \ ???
                What are you talking about? The fact that I know a little more than the 1 channel preaches to you. Unlike you, I write what I know personally I saw. And when was the last time you were in Ukraine?

                Quote: SPACE
                As Putin subtly joked here recently, "thanks to Russia they know Russian in Israel, but soon, thanks to Israel, Russia will know Hebrew"))) such a subtle hint of fat circumstances

                Maybe decrypt the hint, I somehow did not truncate.
                Quote: SPACE
                The law says that for those who do evil, history has the same answer, naive descendants have not understood for thousands of years, but you are not the first and you are not the last ...

                I know that 3 already blames us for all troubles, but for some reason the facts of history say one thing.
                Where are all these persecutors? And we are whole. alive and yes, according to many - manage the world wink

                Quote: SPACE
                They are the first to proactively act, on foreign territories, to break in someone else's yard, not to build

                Strange, what are you doing in Ukraine?
                Quote: SPACE
                using at the same time all the levers they control the world, sanctions, military methods and even sports.

                everyone behaves exactly the same.
                Russia declares the same sanctions, introduces troops and so on and so forth.
                There is nothing new
                Quote: SPACE
                And then what? The force of action, will give rise to the power of reaction, then some will not be laughing ...;)

                Apply it to relations between Russia and Ukraine hi
  • 33 Watcher
    33 Watcher 18 June 2016 11: 36
    0
    Quote: atalef
    Quote: SPACE
    I wonder what purpose you are talking about, which you had to complete successfully started?

    What was planned was to tear the entire south from Ukraine, cut off from the sea and connect with Transnistria.
    They thought to raise local personnel (as in the Crimea) - but alas.
    And now, a suitcase without a handle.

    How do you know what was planned? I've been reading you for the second year now, and so far I see only fantasies ...
    Well, another genuine joy, the failures of Russia (often also invented). And the self-proclaimed by you, the once status "I am very big, and very real", well, never yet, is not justified.
    Maybe it’s worth less for a straw ride? And then it is, it seems the truth is transmitted through fat.
    1. atalef
      atalef 18 June 2016 11: 45
      +1
      Quote: Observer 33
      How do you know what was planned?

      How do you know that not?
      Quote: Observer 33
      I've been reading you for the second year now, and so far I see only fantasies ...

      On the topic of ?
      Quote: Observer 33
      Well, genuine joy, the failures of Russia (often also invented).

      What kind of nonsense? I have a wonderful attitude towards Russia, I go to visit friends (like them to me) - do not confuse Russia and its current government.

      Quote: Observer 33
      And the self-proclaimed by you, once the status "I am very big, and very real",

      Actually, I'm really big and not vertical - only about your mythical status are some complexes
      Quote: Observer 33
      Well, not yet, justified.

      And I'm not trying to be the ultimate truth - I write what I think, like everyone here
      Quote: Observer 33
      Maybe it’s worth less for a straw ride?

      Solo is your comment, I go for fat, if you know what it is - garno Ukrainian fat tongue
      1. 33 Watcher
        33 Watcher 18 June 2016 15: 38
        +2
        Quote: atalef

        Solo is your comment, I go for fat, if you know what it is - garno Ukrainian fat

        Kindergarten, however, like everything that you write recently. Although before you were interested to read, but before. Apparently, really the trips for fat were affected. Svidomizm, insidious disease.
        To refer to Slepakov (above), this is generally good Next time, before analyzing the foreign policy situation, review the entire gum club ...
        Quote: atalef
        And that we with the palaces were one fraternal people speaking the same language?

        Well, you are not, you are from the change of shoes, you have no fraternal ones, by definition. And the Jews with the Arabs, in fact, yes. Or in Israel they did not hear anything about the Simites?
      2. 33 Watcher
        33 Watcher 18 June 2016 17: 07
        +1
        Quote: atalef
        What nonsense? I have a wonderful attitude to Russia, I go to visit friends

        Quote: atalef
        I would even say that most of what was announced by the Kremlin was a failure in its entirety, while water is like smart people

        Really fun?
        And go far, no need ...
  • Alexey-74
    Alexey-74 18 June 2016 09: 31
    +1
    ATALEF, probably the Foreign Ministry will be stronger in Israel ...? Therefore, they are still struggling with Palestine
    1. atalef
      atalef 18 June 2016 10: 00
      0
      Quote: Alexey-74
      ATALEF, probably the Foreign Ministry will be stronger in Israel ...? Therefore, they are still struggling with Palestine

      And that we with the palaces were one fraternal people speaking the same language?
  • asiat_61
    asiat_61 18 June 2016 12: 04
    0
    Here’s what’s the matter? We left for the fish, well, and eat it with a full spoon.
  • dmi.pris
    dmi.pris 18 June 2016 08: 18
    +1
    But I think that the Armed Forces of Ukraine nevertheless did a lesson. You do not need to consider them completely stupid .. Further events showed that they began to gain experience and combat cooperation. Under Debaltseve, the encirclement operation was already tight. But the result was achieved.
    1. rotmistr60
      rotmistr60 18 June 2016 08: 45
      -1
      But I think that APU still did a lesson

      In your opinion, that the lesson, in the end, went to the detriment of the DNLR? It's not even clear, do you support the APU? Or are you rooting for their combat readiness?
  • SCHWERIN
    SCHWERIN 18 June 2016 07: 44
    +1
    Listen, but do not duplicate the statement of these ghouls.
    After all, they live it. No need to look for logic in their statements. They are like vampires. Only they drink blood and live by it, and these by their judgments and statements.
    Those. if you do not discuss every word kaklov, they immediately fade. And scatter like fog.
  • Observer2014
    Observer2014 18 June 2016 07: 47
    +3
    Prosecutor General of Ukraine Lutsenko called the Minsk Agreement a miracle that saved the country during the events near Ilovaisk

    What? Didn’t it really happen? Or just burst out of the park?
    The Minsk agreements are far from ideal, but then it was a miracle for us - Poroshenko, Merkel, Hollande ...

    Thank you to V.V. Putin. His plans were not to feed the whole of Ukraine. It was very troublesome and expensive. And the creation of a small "black hole" for Ukraine. As we see it, and then only the Kremlin could stop the advance of the militias. people from this not as good, it would be possible to push the APU at least abroad. They knew very well that the shelling would continue. Or it was impossible to the border of the regions that Ukraine, God forbid, would not wave and recognize the independence of these regions?
  • Banishing liberoids
    Banishing liberoids 18 June 2016 07: 48
    +2
    The "holy lustration container" is now waiting for a lucenka - a trash can filled to the brim with fical masses!
  • Barakuda
    Barakuda 18 June 2016 07: 49
    +3
    Quote: Mountain Shooter
    APU is not able to conduct meaningful military operations on any scale.

    Now the situation is different. The experience was gained by the Armed Forces of Ukraine. Yes and no appeal. Remain contract soldiers - ideological. Which are paid well.
    But the problem of the generals remains, they do not care about the war, the main thing is to take more, and stupidly retire - I have nothing to do with it.
  • rotmistr60
    rotmistr60 18 June 2016 07: 50
    -1
    the signing of the first Minsk Protocol actually saved Ukraine in 2014, when the Ukrainian security forces were put in a ring near Ilovaisk.

    Yes, many wrote about this on the site and, by the way, reproached our leadership that they went to a meeting with the Ukrainian junta, giving them the opportunity to recover. But Minsk-1 was followed by Minsk-2, which also saved the junta. Now you are wondering, was it necessary to do this? They woke up again, re-formed to their rabid screams about the Russian threat. What we see today is systematic shelling, attempts to probe the DNLNR's defenses, a complete unwillingness to comply with the agreements signed, and ongoing assistance, both material and political, of the "peace-loving" West.
  • Strezhevchanin
    Strezhevchanin 18 June 2016 08: 08
    +3
    I’m no longer interested in what the ukrovitniks are saying or voicing.
    I’m interested in what they will say in the dock, it’s possible as a Nuremberg.
    These "people" think that they are sitting on the censor under fictitious nicknames and left-wing aypishniks, but the reality is completely different ...... survive the bastards to court.
    1. CORNET
      CORNET 18 June 2016 08: 16
      0
      Quote: Strezhevchanin
      I’m no longer interested in what the ukrovitniks are saying or voicing.
      I’m interested in what they will say in the dock, it’s possible as a Nuremberg.
      These "people" think that they are sitting on the censor under fictitious nicknames and left-wing aypishniks, but the reality is completely different ...... survive the bastards to court.

      Of course we’ll shoot and outweigh .. But let’s put the people before! Oh Russia ..!
      1. Yura
        Yura 18 June 2016 09: 58
        0
        Hi Meehan, change your shoes? New shoes bought? You and in those was normal, what happened?
        1. CORNET
          CORNET 18 June 2016 10: 29
          +1
          Quote: Jura
          Hi Meehan, change your shoes? New shoes bought? You and in those was normal, what happened?

          HELLO!!!
          Shoot .... hi I'm tired already! But as the saying goes, "You can't take a lie ..."
          I remember they accused me of collecting pluses .. !!! Now I am FREE (already lost count .. ..)))))))) And not one bastard will not show me this anymore .... hi While alive ...

          In the morning they will shoot ... again!
          1. Ruslan67
            Ruslan67 18 June 2016 10: 35
            +1
            Quote: CORNET
            I remember they accused me of collecting pluses.

            Quote: CORNET
            not one bastard will not show me this anymore ....

            You just stopped putting them laughing
            1. CORNET
              CORNET 18 June 2016 12: 00
              +1
              Quote: Ruslan67
              Quote: CORNET
              I remember they accused me of collecting pluses.

              Quote: CORNET
              not one bastard will not show me this anymore ....

              You just stopped putting them laughing

              With your pose, you always have plenty of them .... Your place in the chat is dumb, not here! Well, I spent a little time on you so that everyone knows! Write at least something ... I watched you for two years. !!!
              1. Ruslan67
                Ruslan67 18 June 2016 12: 06
                +1
                Quote: CORNET
                .Two years I watched you.

                I didn’t know that I was so crushed on me request
                Quote: CORNET
                .. your place in the chat is dumb

                You begin to remind me of Tranzhira with your stupid obstinacy and rudeness. So he is at least a real bugger in the medical sense. Why are you writhing?
          2. atalef
            atalef 18 June 2016 10: 36
            +2
            Quote: CORNET
            Now I am FREE

            1. CORNET
              CORNET 18 June 2016 11: 27
              0
              Thanks Atalef! You, as always, to the point In the soul so sounds play !!!!! ..... hi
              Goodbye men! crying
              1. atalef
                atalef 18 June 2016 11: 38
                +2
                Quote: CORNET
                Thanks Atalef! You, as always, to the point In the soul so sounds play !!!!! ..... hi
                Goodbye men! crying

                Meehan, don't die !!
                Although you are like MacLauden - immortal hi
                1. CORNET
                  CORNET 18 June 2016 11: 50
                  +1
                  Quote: atalef
                  Quote: CORNET
                  Thanks Atalef! You, as always, to the point In the soul so sounds play !!!!! ..... hi
                  Goodbye men! crying

                  Meehan, don't die !!
                  Although you are like MacLauden - immortal hi

                  Well you are an ulcer hi ...Thanks for all! Good luck to you!
                  1. CORNET
                    CORNET 18 June 2016 12: 19
                    -1
                    Quote: CORNET
                    Quote: atalef
                    Quote: CORNET
                    Thanks Atalef! You, as always, to the point In the soul so sounds play !!!!! ..... hi
                    Goodbye men! crying

                    Meehan, don't die !!
                    Although you are like MacLauden - immortal hi

                    Well you are an ulcer hi ...Thanks for all! Good luck to you!

                    I already regret that I am not a Jew .... hi And we will wet each other as usual ..... But I still had surgery on my heart (you are a doctor ...?)! good
                    Okay, I’m pulling out a sharpened checker and away we go .... We got it all! laughing But I will be back !!!!
          3. Yura
            Yura 18 June 2016 13: 05
            +1
            hold +, helped you a little, I wonder how long.
      2. Roman 11
        Roman 11 18 June 2016 11: 08
        0
        Quote: CORNET
        Of course we’ll shoot and outweigh ..

        It is doubtful somehow. Putin looks at the zebras in such a way that they will prompt and advise. All this byak is stretched as 2x2, and Lavrov can still officially apologize.
        1. CORNET
          CORNET 18 June 2016 11: 24
          0
          Quote: Novel 11
          Quote: CORNET
          Of course we’ll shoot and outweigh ..

          It is doubtful somehow. Putin looks at the zebras in such a way that they will prompt and advise. All this byak is stretched as 2x2, and Lavrov can still officially apologize.

          Everything goes to this ... (judging by the site even ...))))))
    2. Vadim237
      Vadim237 18 June 2016 09: 12
      0
      They will not sit in the dock - in which case they will quickly get together and dump foreign countries - they are ready for this.
      1. family tree
        family tree 18 June 2016 11: 20
        0
        And there they will be quickly sheared, everything is ready for the account, and the scarf is like a birch. That’s all garbage, at the expense of the blame, Nikolai’s relatives are in England, and that’s what they said, and they’ll shave those who are approaching.
  • Thunderbolt
    Thunderbolt 18 June 2016 08: 14
    +2
    Now I can already say that at a time when regular Russian troops entered our rear in Ilovaisk, between Ilovaisk and Kiev one battalion. One!
    No one would waste precious time on this valiant battalion if a combat mission was set to take Kiev. They would seize the Borispol airfield near Kiev and simultaneously with the build-up of troops to the west, tanks and infantry would rush. The infantry would clear the capital of Ukraine from the Nazi junta. , and tanks and troops would have advanced even further west to create a powerful mobile grouping on the Bug and discourage any NATO desire to intervene in the conflict in our zone of interests.
    Of course, this is a simplified military scenario for resolving the Ukrainian issue (with its inevitable risks and costs). And politicians giving orders to their generals do not really like such a "knight's move", preferring to weave political intrigues. And this had to be done harshly and very decisively even before the election of Pyotr Alekseevich and our recognition of this candidacy of the CIA agent am . During the so-called anarchy.
    And then it became too late. And now Ukraine becomes a difficult question against the background of how it is being set up against us, having in its arsenal many ways of cooperation between NATO and the states that are not officially part of the bloc. Instructor support was the first bell, the creation of mixed battalions with the Baltic states in Romania second alarm.
  • rotmistr60
    rotmistr60 18 June 2016 08: 25
    +1
    ... live the bastards before the trial.

    Are you seriously hoping for an international court? In vain, those who started this will never go to the international recognition of the war crimes of the Kiev junta. They will quickly, quietly, physically remove the main performers than bring the matter to an international court. After all, then the truth will open, which the West now does not want to see about the true goals of the Maidan.
  • solovey
    solovey 18 June 2016 08: 53
    +2
    Everything will be as we need - without the introduction of troops of the Russian Federation.
    1. Vadim237
      Vadim237 18 June 2016 09: 18
      0
      "Everything will be as we need it" - Constant shelling of Donbass - is that what we need? and constant tykolovo to the Minsk agreements - it is also necessary - because of these "agreements" only Russia and Donbass are losing.
  • BOB044
    BOB044 18 June 2016 08: 59
    0
    The Prosecutor General of Ukraine Yuriy Lutsenko unexpectedly complimented about the Minsk agreements. According to Lutsenko, the signing of the first Minsk Protocol actually saved Ukraine in 2014, when the Ukrainian security forces were placed in a ring near Ilovaisk. Continuing to ignore the term "boiler", Lutsenko said that during the ilovoi events the "Russian regular army" went to the rear of the Ukrainian security forces.
    If the Russian regular army. I went to the rear of the Ukrainian security forces that hour would be. Other people would have been in power. Moron.
  • masiya
    masiya 18 June 2016 09: 19
    +1
    It is necessary to gain strength of mind and patiently watch as this "country" devours itself and then possibly cures the Americans from vaccination.
  • avg-mgn
    avg-mgn 18 June 2016 09: 19
    0
    This is actually new evidence that Poroshenko sat at the negotiating table only at those moments when for him there was a real danger of not being in the presidential chair ...
    Yes, he did not sit at the table, Europe and Russia sat at him, and at that time he thumped while sitting at the push ...
  • Chak
    Chak 18 June 2016 09: 28
    0
    A disgrace ... they saved the Bandera-3,14ndos regime with their own hands. As grandfather Lenin said, "One step forward, two steps back." An event similar to the Khasavyurt disgrace
  • sergey2017
    sergey2017 18 June 2016 09: 30
    0
    Officially, the government of Ukraine does not recognize the environment near Ilovaisk! In speeches of representatives of the Ukrainian authorities this fact is recognized! I think Ilovaisk they will remember for a long time! To the surviving fighters of the Armed Forces of Ukraine (participants in the events) he dreams like a nightmare! For the fighters of the Armed Forces of Ukraine, this is a strong psychological shock!
  • olimpiada15
    olimpiada15 18 June 2016 09: 40
    0
    I do not share the optimism of those who believe that the criminal Ukrainian regime will be tried as fascists — at the wrong time and the wrong situation.
    The Nuremberg Tribunal was possible because Soviet soldiers occupied half of Europe and the fury of people who saw the crimes of the Nazis was great.
    Now the situation is different. Remember Yugoslavia, those who tried to stop the fratricidal war were on trial. The judges were representatives of the forces that organized this massacre. The criminals who handed over to the bodies of the Serbs evaded retaliation and became handshake politicians.
    And all this implies that the Russian Federation had to do everything to stop fascism in Ukraine.
    The following development of events in 2014 would be logical:
    Stage 1 - Yanukovych declares martial law. The army did not want a fratricidal war and obeyed. The task of the army is to suppress the actions of armed formations that seize the Ministry of Internal Affairs and weapons and attack the population. Friendship trains were just a paid action to intimidate the population. It was just necessary to stop the chaos and the collapse of the country. Limit media broadcasting. And at the same time to carry out explanatory work among the population: to lay out information about the crimes of Bandera, their role in aiding Nazism and crimes; to explain the consequences of signing the document on European integration for industry, the country's budget and restitution. These are broadcasts in the media, lessons in schools, posters, meetings - in general, all methods of processing consciousness.
    Stage 2-Yanukovych was to resign, presidential elections were scheduled, in accordance with the constitutional order, the Azarov government, which organized and held the elections, should remain in power.
    It should be understood that half of the country voted for Yanukovych, and since 2004, those who understood that industry is the backbone of the economy have voted. The other half of the population was represented by Zapadents, militants trained by the West and brainless youth acting for a fee participated in the speeches. Zapadentsev do not need restitution and they would change the mood. A good outreach would rally the country.
    Why the Russian Federation did not go this way? There is only one answer: the basis of power is the economy, the Russian economy is in the hands of a circle of people whose interests are outside the country, and in this case they helped their masters.
    And the interest of the West is simple: to reduce the population, subordinate the economy to their interests, and use the conflict to destabilize the Russian Federation. Everything turned out in the West. After so many victims and the damage done, the unity of the country is impossible, anti-Russian sentiment will increase, including at the expense of those who were by force involved in the ATO. There will be even more victims: in order to hide crimes, one must silence them.
    Accused of the Russian Federation, the OSCE does not see executions Armed Forces of Ukraine, and American instructors check the effectiveness of the delivered guidance systems by firing at the population of Donbass (see the situation in LDNR from the military commissar for June 17.06), while not forgetting to blame the Russian Federation.
    And the words of Lutsenko only confirm the dual position of the Russian Federation in relation to Ukraine.
    Everything that we do in Ukraine works against Russia, and financial investments, and human losses, and image losses and failure to take measures to stop shelling of urban settlements, which the Russian Federation simply does not notice.
  • surrozh
    surrozh 18 June 2016 09: 51
    0
    The junta’s rhetoric is changing, the electorate is being prepared slowly, the Minsk agreements are already good, look - they’ll fulfill it. And without denazification we have nothing to do there, but Germany was quickly put in order.
  • SCHWERIN
    SCHWERIN 18 June 2016 11: 18
    +2
    All of which you are here third. SECONDARY. Donbas, Crimea, Kiev. See the root. Until the 90s in Ukraine everything was OK Well or about.
    It all started with the fact that the labeled one began PERESTROIKA. I remember how the people listened to his speeches. My wife came home and asked me what kind of performance it was and who was playing !!! After the highly respected (no sarcasm) L.I. Brezhnev who read from a piece of paper: "I declare the Olympic Games open" it was a shock for the population of the USSR.
    Was reorganization needed? IMHO Yes! After all, from the 60s they lived on the Stalinist reserve. There was A.N. Kosygin (St. Petersburg) who proposed reforms, but the authorities did not have political will. For such work, a leader such as GDP was needed!
    Then Yeltsin with Belovezhia. There is confusion and vacillation among the people. At such a time, pumped up and unprincipled people enter the arena. In the 90s he was in Georgia. So the people there openly said: "Russians, you abandoned us" Such was the faith in Russia and the Russians!
    Outside Ukraine, only the GALICIAN ones were not taken aback. This is not a nation, rather a subspecies. Chronic, grafted malice towards Russians, towards Russia. This charge of hatred rallied them and brought them to power in Ukraine. It should be noted that 3 wars passed through Galicia as a rink. Who survived? I think it’s clear.
    I remember the parliamentary elections. The leaders are GALICIAN. All their fighting qualities were useful here. Plankton chewed on snot.
    A man is also an animal. And they win strong or cunning. Here you are
    Maidan.
    Due to the weakness (I do not write indecision, derived from weakness) of one person, in Ukraine (in particular) what happened happened. I do not believe that Gorby is a traitor. Not. But his appearance on the watered Olympus of the USSR is the result of decomposition and impotence of the elite of the USSR.
    That's where all that is happening between the Russian Federation and Ukraine comes from. And this is the fault of us all.
  • Ros 56
    Ros 56 18 June 2016 13: 17
    0
    In how, and what to do now. even the Prosecutor General agrees with the Minsk miracle. And then what? Is it time for someone to gilyak how morons screamed. But how else, answer still have to and not childish.
  • avg-mgn
    avg-mgn 18 June 2016 14: 00
    0
    Quote: Ros 56
    even the Prosecutor General agrees with the Minsk miracle

    These are all words. Most likely, some combination is being planned, the Attorney General himself would never have made such a statement just like that, because some actions should follow. Now the question is - who do they want to lynch?
  • tezey
    tezey 18 June 2016 15: 39
    0
    The fact that Pan Lutsenko is a man with a broken brain, or maybe injured alcohol, is also known by the hedgehog. The fact is that if Lutsenko believes in what he is talking about, then he needs to regularly light a candle in the church for a miraculous salvation from the Russian troops. And it would be nice to write a letter of thanks to the Russian President Vladimir V. Putin. After all, if, according to Lutsenko, Russian regular troops went behind the rear of the Ukrainian army and crushed it to smithereens, then the way to Kiev was free. Take not want. And then what would happen to pan Lutsenko? In the best case, I would have managed to dump in Poland or Canada, and in the worst. Clearly, no one would have looked for his corpse, but for Lutsenko, not everything has been lost in this sense. Life is unpredictable. Today you write like that. and tomorrow on the plank beds in bracelets you are waiting for the performer.