Military Review

Hunting with a machine gun

83


Carabiners from Kalashnikov assault rifles and PPSh, Mosin rifle, and for those who wish - the Maxim machine gun, firing single. Market of the so-called martial weapons has grown in recent years by half, but the State Duma intends to ban fencing in the near future.

MARIA CHER

Small, on 30 thousand people, the town of Vyatskiye Polyany in the Kirov region may lose its two city-forming enterprises. The fact is that the Molot-Arms plant, the successor of the PCA (Shpagin submachine gun), famous for the Vyatsko-Polyansky machine-building plant in the war years, and the Hammer Armz (an enterprise founded just five years ago) are the largest in Russia sellers of weapons, converted from combat to civilian. And at the autumn session as part of the package of "antiterrorist" amendments, the State Duma is going to adopt a law prohibiting enterprises from "fencing off" military weapons, in May the bill was passed in first reading.

“We will lose jobs,” the leadership of Hammer Weapon scares. The company employs more than 2 thousand people, about half of all products - civilian weapons.

“For us, this law will actually mean collapse,” laments Ravil Nurgaleev, the director of Hammer Armz, lamenting that there are more weapons produced at his weapons factory than combat weapons. The former veterinarian and head of the design bureau of sports and hunting weapons, Ravil Nurgaleev founded the company in 2011, not far from the old “Hammer”; last year, he tried to ban the Nurgaleev plant from using his name in the title, terminated the dealership agreement with the younger namesake and complained about it to the FAS. However, according to Ravil Nurgaleev, "this was the work of some employees who did not coordinate their actions with the management," and today Hammer Armz sells its own products and Hammer Weapons.

Now two players occupy half of the market for unarmed weapons: according to expert estimates, this market is about 150-180 thousand units per year, Vyatka-Polyansky factories, according to their management, sell 3-3,5 thousand units per month.

The control package "Hammer-Arms" belongs to the state corporation "Rostec", and it also owns the third player of a specific market - the plant named after Degtyarev (ZiD), one of the oldest (opened in 1916 year) weapons and the largest industrial enterprise of the city of Kovrov in the Vladimir region. "Our plant in 2012 received a shipment of outdated military small arms to the Ministry of Defense free of charge. We incurred considerable expenses for the organization of specially equipped warehouses and the delivery of tens of thousands of weapons, developed design documentation for converting weapons to civilians, and issued certificates. At the enterprise additional jobs have been created where workers are currently undergoing training. The adoption of the amendment will lead to a reduction in jobs and will deprive the plant of both income and to cover losses incurred ", - say in the marketing service ZiDa.

Swords on plowshares


The famous Degtyarev machine gun of the 1927 model of the year is now also in the civilian version - as a DP-O carbine worth 70 thousand rubles.
Photo: RIA News

For weapons factories, the conversion of military weapons into civilian is a profitable business. Worn out, obsolete and defective weapons that can be used as "raw materials" in military warehouses millions of units, it is much easier and more profitable to protect them than to produce civilian weapons from scratch - 90% products are ready, you just need to cut off a few parts and brew a number of holes: remove the ability to conduct automatic fire, leaving only a single, and the capacity of the store is limited to ten rounds.

For weapons factories, the conversion of military weapons into civilian is a profitable business.

Since the beginning of the 2010s, the production and sale of such weapons has grown significantly due to the fact that in addition to traditional alterations from the Kalashnikov assault rifle (hunting carbines of the Vepr series manufactured by the Hammer-Weapons, self-loading carbines MA-136 Hammer Armz) rarities of the pre-revolutionary and Soviet era appeared on sale. Since 2012, ZiD has been making the SVT-O carbine based on the Tokarev rifle of 1940, a year later the Hammer-Weapon and ZiD released the carbine from the Shpagin submachine gun. The Hammer-Weapon began to make a three-line Mosin rifle (it was used in the Russian and then in the Red Army from 1891 until the end of World War II) as multiple-shot carbines KO 91/30, KO 91 / 30M and OP-SKS from a self-loading carbine Simonov (adopted by the end of World War II, was used by the Soviet army in most wars of the XX century). It is also produced by ZiD. And since 2014 you can buy - and they’re buying! - a civilian version of the Degtyarev machine gun of 1927 (ZiD production) and even the legendary Maxim machine gun (it is produced by ZiD and Hammer-Weapon). At Hammer-Weapons, we were informed that the sale of weapons having historical value, are growing steadily, and from 15% to 20% of tainted products is exported, mainly to the United States and Germany.

Cheap and shoots


The most common form of alteration of military weapons - civilian version of the Kalashnikov
Photo: RIA Novosti

The reason for the popularity of alterations is that such weapons are significantly cheaper than models of the new assembly. Hobby citizens can talk about it for hours. “See: Saiga 9 carbine (Kalashnikov concern. ——“ Money ”) costs 28-40 thousand rubles in the basic configuration. And Zidovsky PCA-41 for the same cartridge (9х19 Luger) - 23-27 thousand. RUB. ", - explains the chairman of the board of the All-Russian public organization" The Right to Arms "Igor Shmelev. "I have 80% of weapons - converted from combat," said Vladimir Demidko, amateur collector, municipal deputy of the Mitino district. "This is a weapon for a standard cheap cartridge that is produced in large quantities, and high-quality - good samples can be found even up to 10 thousand. rub.".

Amateurs claim that the weapon, which was originally produced as a combat one, is higher in the production requirements: as a rule, there is an employee at the plant who reports not to the enterprise, but to a military unit of the Ministry of Defense and is responsible for quality control of the weapons produced. “The trunks with the army’s past get more accurate, but they shoot further - I’m telling you, as a hunter,” says Yevgeny Petrenko, a hunter from the Pavlovo-Posad district of the Moscow region.

Sales of weapons of historical value are growing steadily, and from 15% to 20% of foreign products are exported, mainly to the USA and Germany

Since most of the alterations of military weapons fall on rifled specimens, and it is allowed to acquire it only to people who have experience with possessing smooth-bore weapons from five years, their main consumer is hunters. "At first, I wanted to buy a Czech rifle for 30 thousand rubles. However, because of the fall of the ruble, the weapon became more expensive, and now it costs at least 70 thousand, not to mention the prices of imported ammunition for rifled weapons, the price of which has completely taken off to Heaven, "- says Dmitry Alekseev from Novgorod. Now a suitable option for Alekseev is the Russian carbine "Tiger", a civilian version of the legendary Soviet SVD rifle.

Sellers of weapons of nationality claim that it enjoys special demand in remote areas of Siberia and the North, because there hunting is often not so much a hobby as work: people hunt for food or are engaged in commercial hunting, for example, they get furs to sell it to furriers.

Dear shooting


Shooting sports in Russia is gaining popularity - for example, several tens of thousands of people are engaged in practical shooting.
Photo: Yury Martyanov, Kommersant

According to the Ministry of Internal Affairs, on 1 January 2016, the 4,5 million Russian owners of weapons 6,6 million units of equipment are in the hands of 2011. Before 5,2, there were more gun owners - XNUMX million people, but with the tightening of requirements for the acquisition of traumatics, the number of people decreased, but the weapons on their hands became more: hunters and collectors continue to acquire it. The ban on fencing will affect many buyers: according to the PNO chairman Igor Shmelev, the majority of Russian civilian and service weapons are designed and manufactured using a base or components of military weapons. “We don’t have imported weapons of this category, there’s nothing to replace it. Because of this, prices will rise not only for civilian weapons produced from combat, but also for other types of weapons of similar caliber, and even for used weapons,” Shmelev predicts .

Among the "victims" along with hunters and collectors will be athletes, for example, fans of practical shooting. This discipline, including shooting from a pistol, a smooth-bore gun and a carbine, appeared, by the standards of sport, quite recently - the first world championship was held in 1975 year. In Russia, the sport is very popular - today in the country 72 regional federations and 150 practice shooting clubs are registered. According to estimates of the Ministry of Sports, active athletes are about 24 thousand people, and there are several times more citizens who are fond of practical shooting at the amateur level. The anti-armament initiative may hinder the development of this sport, Igor Nemov, deputy chairman of the Moscow Region Practical Shooting Federation, said: “Although the shooters use only new weapons, mainly imported ones, cheap cheap samples are used for primary training and instilling the skills of safe weapons handling. Russia's first program to re-equip shooting sports, to provide it with high-quality weapons, ammunition and equipment for the Russian . But the present-day roduction deputies initiatives go against it - because we simply deprive them of inventory. "

Trunks with an army past get more accurate, and shoot further - I tell you, as a hunter,

Private security companies will also get away from the ban - most of their weapons are also made on the basis of combat or of its components. “There will be a shortage of armaments in the market, and many private security firms simply cannot rent a weapon from the Ministry of Internal Affairs. The Interior Ministry’s problems may begin with the issue of service weapons for rent. Naturally, we will suffer losses,” explains the commercial director of AKM Group "Alexey Shchedrin.

Explaining the ban on the protection of weapons by the fight against terrorism is rather stupid, said Vladimir Gutenev, Deputy Chairman of the State Duma Committee on Industry. According to the Ministry of Internal Affairs of Russia, 6,6, that is, 589%, was involved in the commission of crimes in the last year from 0,009 million, in the overwhelming majority of cases, it was poaching. “Moreover, the law does not specify what will happen to the converted weapons that are already in their hands,” says Gutenev. “The law does not regulate withdrawing it from the population, so I don’t see any direct consequences in the fight against terrorism.” However, according to Gutenev, complete freedom in acquiring and carrying weapons, such as, for example, in most US states, cannot be introduced in Russia. “We all remember numerous tragedies with shooting in American schools,” explains the deputy.

Strangely enough, even among citizens close to the weapons environment there are supporters of a certain restriction on the sale of weapons, for example, Mikhail Degtyarev, the editor-in-chief of the Kalashnikov magazine. "I think that it’s safe on the streets not where everything is with pistols, but where there are no pistols. Take, for example, American statistics - this year in Chicago alone six people died from firearms on Veterans Day last year “Fourteen,” he says. Opponents of the weapon cite the case of Russian school shooting as an argument - February 2014, Moscow school N263. The 15-year-old tenth-grader, waiting for his parents to go to work, pulled out a Browning sports carbine and Tikka rifle from his father’s safe, went to school with them, killed a geography teacher and took a classmate 21 hostage. During the detention, the teenager also shot one policeman and wounded the second. The student was recognized mentally insane - he was diagnosed with paranoid schizophrenia.

And yet, despite the thickening atmosphere, enterprises engaged in arms protection rely on the lobbying capabilities of the powerful Rostec: the conversion of military weapons into civilian is beneficial to both the Ministry of Defense and Rostekhovsky enterprises.

“Millions, and in the case of some items, tens of millions of weapons of decommissioned weapons have been stored in military warehouses for decades without losing their properties,” says Mikhail Degtyarev. “Their protection and maintenance in proper technical condition are not cheap. Periodically, during some the technical inspection of the weapon is re-sorted and falls into the category to be destroyed - it is she who goes into civilian rework, and the Ministry of Defense receives money, since the interested enterprises are ready for pons to pay in the case of recycling pays the state itself -. and, moreover, much as arms must be protected, to take the place of utilization and any movement of weapons -. it is very expensive and it is difficult not to carry the potatoes. " Excluding logistics and security, the disposal of a single weapon under pressure costs 250-300 rubles, the destruction of one cartridge costs 15 rubles. The figures are small, but in terms of lots of tens and hundreds of thousands of expenses are tangible.
Author:
Originator:
http://kommersant.ru/doc/3001812
83 comments
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  1. would
    would 19 June 2016 06: 09
    +28
    I believe that it is safe on the streets not where everything is with pistols, but where there are no pistols. Take, for example, American statistics - this year in Chicago alone on the Veterans Day, six people died from firearms, last year - fourteen


    Needless to say, not a word about the legality of this weapon, the prohibitive laws of the state of Illinois and the circumstances of the incident. It’s so simpler: It’s one thing when you scare everyone with such deaths and say “prohibit and not let go,” another thing if everyone becomes aware that the weapon was originally illegal and a large part of the bodies are the consequences of gangster squabbles. After all, here you understand that this person does not want to disarm the criminals, but to disarm law-abiding citizens. It's like with the massacres in the United States in which they record everything where more than 3 people were killed and are not at all eager to say that a large part of it is gangster showdown.

    As for the prohibition of alterations, there is, as always, the "incredible mind" of our State Duma and their "incredible level of work", but there is also a completely commercial interest of the manufacturers themselves. After all, if weapons are produced in a full cycle, then at each stage of production there is a surcharge by itself, and by itself more people and capacities are employed. This is trite more profitable than first buying a ready-made frame for little money, and then redoing it a little. This is especially true for the rifled one, which is really very little altered.
    1. Fox
      Fox 19 June 2016 09: 28
      0
      Quote: rait
      . After all, if we produce weapons in a full cycle, then at each stage of production there is an extra charge, more people and capacities are taken up by themselves. This is trite more profitable than first buying an already finished frame for little money, and after a little redo. This is especially true for the rifled which is redone really very little.

      I agree. Weapons will be made as disposable Renault cars. I shot the store and threw it (I exaggerate)
      1. NIKNN
        NIKNN 19 June 2016 16: 01
        +11
        A certain suspicion arises about an attempt to transform from a "presumption of innocence" into a "presumption of guilt", because it turns out that "not every criminal is armed, but every armed criminal ..."
      2. serega.fedotov
        serega.fedotov 20 June 2016 13: 20
        0
        Quote: Fox
        I agree. Weapons will be made as disposable Renault cars. I shot the store and threw it (I exaggerate)

        Absolutely true! PM155 - 12 shots and a mustache ... Only after the "napiling" it worked as it should!
        The tag also got IZH43K UNDER THE ORDER, after 4 !!!!! shots the extractor jammed tightly, and Izhak’s special take a full trigger, I thought there’s nothing to break there ....
  2. valent45
    valent45 19 June 2016 06: 25
    +23
    It’s time to pass a law on the legality of keeping and carrying a firearm, a ban only for
    certain categories of citizens (it’s easy to guess which ones).
    1. would
      would 19 June 2016 07: 13
      +12
      Here it would be worth explaining what kind of weapon it says: Keeping a smoothbore can be a very long time and getting it is usually not difficult. The same hunting ticket was simplified and now it is a formality, now there is no hunting minimum, and just came and received. Rifled after this you need to wait 5 years. Further, it is necessary to divide the wearing as a colloquial term and as a legal interpretation: Legally, carrying a weapon is carrying a weapon without a case, in the clear, with a cartridge in the chamber. That is, what is called hidden wearing in the United States. However, we still have transportation: Weapons in a case, assembled, and unloaded. There is one interesting point with this: the law does not prescribe what is uncharged, and the Ministry of Internal Affairs, referring to GOST in official answers, says that it is solely the presence of a cartridge in the chamber and setting up a combat platoon, and thus it is not a crime to transport weapons with an adjoining and equipped magazine and / or without fusing.

      That is, the storage of a long barrel is already legal, hidden wearing is de facto legal, so what should be clarified. About the application? Short-bore?
  3. Razvedka_Boem
    Razvedka_Boem 19 June 2016 07: 20
    +24
    In traffic accidents and medical errors, hundreds of thousands of people die annually. These are official statistics.
    The weapon is needed. A man with a weapon changes psychologically. He already ceases to be a "dumb brute", he can give an answer. This is what the authorities do not like.
    At the everyday level, after they deal with scumbags, people will become more polite and kinder ..)
    We can say that a man with a weapon is a killer! and other emotions.
    But it is not weapons that kill - man kills.
    The driver is also a potential killer, but he does not go to crush pedestrians.
    The risk of fatal accidents is higher than the risk of being robbed by a drug addict and even more so killed from a gunshot.
    1. Bolhevik
      Bolhevik 19 June 2016 08: 26
      +12
      Authorities wear a portrait of Tsar Nicholas in an immortal regiment and hang a tablet of Mannerheim, a fascist,
      only by the fact that the fists itch to beat us slaves, their head ached from the whining of the people. The sword a symbol of power in Russia could have abundantly, but everyone did not have a sword - it was a weapon easier in a hut up to a club. The lack of trust in their own people gives rise to impunity for bandits in the first place, what can a herd break into a wolf corral? So the guys are shepherds shepherds but looking into the eyes of a wolf, remove the sheep skin, be people. Once again, this law is stupid - because if war is tomorrow, it is even more criminal.
      1. Monarchist
        Monarchist 19 June 2016 13: 55
        +2
        It was during the reign of Nikolai Aleksandrovich that anyone could buy from a revolver to a rifle. Only after the 1905-1907 rebellion attempt did they stop selling combat rifles and imposed restrictions on the purchase of short barrels (Mauser, etc.) with the permission of the police, and all of them were 7,62 caliber. 2 Long (TT type) is free. Now, regarding the "immortal regiment" Poklonskaya, apparently, proceeded from the fact that our church was ranked NIKOLAYXNUMX as a saint, which means that it was equated to the holy cross. It was the Bolsheviks who started restricting the right to access weapons
        1. troyan
          troyan 19 June 2016 15: 03
          +4
          Quote: Monarchist
          Poklonskaya, apparently, proceeded from the fact that our church ranked St. Nicholas as a saint, and therefore - equated to the holy cross.

          So still, how does Nicholas II belong to the Immortal regiment?
      2. troyan
        troyan 19 June 2016 15: 05
        +1
        Quote: Bolhevik
        ... and hang up the tablet of Mannerheim - the fascist

        I wonder what happened to the article "Propaganda of Nazism"? Or is she not one of those who hang this sign?
    2. Orionvit
      Orionvit 20 June 2016 00: 06
      +2
      Strongly and completely agree. It is not necessary to prohibit weapons, but to increase the cultural and moral level of citizens. But with this the authorities are always bad, it is easier to ban. In any case, any criminal, if he needs to, will always find the trunk. What is wrong with registered weapons for ordinary citizens, I just do not understand.
  4. 52
    52 19 June 2016 07: 23
    +23
    Yet how many "minded minds" are in the State Duma!
    1. lelikas
      lelikas 19 June 2016 12: 25
      +5
      Quote: 52gim
      Yet how many "minded minds" are in the State Duma!

      There are actually more of them there, in my opinion, we started to laugh at Ukraine early - ours, recently, have been training worse. Here, it seems, and a little bit, and the cities are different, but how to put everything together - and grab your head in time.
  5. Bolhevik
    Bolhevik 19 June 2016 07: 51
    +8
    This law is more harmful than useful, because - if, according to their logic, cut weapons are acquired to restore stupidity by terrorists. Any restored weapon is unsuitable for military operations in view of low reliability, only collectors will suffer because the acquired collections will be outlawed and they will be hunted.
    In turn, in order to eliminate leaks of military automatic weapons, it is necessary to review the conditions for their storage, a living example is the case in Vladimir, because a trained group of interested parties should not only disarm a separate green soldier, they can also take a warehouse, an armory in a separate unit, etc. .
    1. Hon
      Hon 19 June 2016 13: 55
      +8
      In general, I do not see anything useful in this law. Well forbidden to finish weapons, what is useful? They will simply take away the opportunity from the factories to make a profit, from the military to save on utilization, and even earnings from the sale of weapons to factories, and it is possible for buyers to buy high-quality weapons cheaply.
      1. Reserve officer
        Reserve officer 19 June 2016 14: 42
        +13
        Well, about the harm and benefits to civil society - it's a pretty moot point. The activities of many deputies cannot be called useful. So now, to ban these figures? By name ...
        And about the converted military weapons, I have my own opinion. We have been creating dioramas for military patriotic clubs for a long time. As exhibits - deactivated military weapons of the Great Patriotic War (redone for pneumatics) and interiors, including personal items of fighters.
        You do not need to be a great psychologist to understand what is happening in the soul of a boy holding a real PCA or PPS with the stigma of the 1943 release of the year. The weapon is deactivated, but it is now. And before, fighters looked through these sights and cleaned our land of all evil spirits. Take a good look at our guys and you will see their serious eyes. Have matured.
        1. fennekRUS
          fennekRUS 19 June 2016 16: 11
          +7
          Quote: Reserve officer
          The activities of many deputies cannot be called useful. So now, to ban these figures? By name.

          the thought is certainly seductive. even more
          1. Zulu_S
            Zulu_S 1 July 2016 23: 38
            0
            GD and SF in general set themselves the task of discrediting the concept of "parliamentarism". Like the CEC - free elections.
    2. would
      would 19 June 2016 20: 44
      +3
      not only disarm an individual green fighter, they can also take a warehouse, an armory in a separate unit, etc.


      A very optimistic scenario is when someone will attack and disarm. Alas, weapons from warehouses are not obtained by force, but by money and communications. And when a considerable part has been unloaded from the warehouse, it can catch fire at 6 different ends at the same time and burn up, and there already try to calculate how many weapons were actually left, how many bandits were sold, and how many exploded in a fire.
  6. Blondy
    Blondy 19 June 2016 08: 23
    +29
    God bless them with machine guns and alterations. I may be exaggerating, but lately, in the legislative activity of the Duma, all only two directions "prohibit and not let" can be traced and how to milk money from Russian citizens - that's all. Well, anything about the normalization of economic development is beyond their brain competence.
  7. pafegosoff
    pafegosoff 19 June 2016 08: 27
    +22
    And why do the deputies not equate cars with weapons, especially expensive breeds, on which some young people constantly commit murder attempts? In the United States, for example, a criminal's car is an instrument of crime and is subject to confiscation. I am no longer surprised by constant messages like: "He (she) has already committed ... dozens of offenses in intoxication ...
    You think: "Stop!" And who recorded this? And who passed the punishment? And the names of these people ...
    Oh, and these people in power and laws in general cannot be touched. The present ones will easily acquit Chekatilo if he is from a "good" family, but if a five-year-old boy pees on the wheel of a "respected person" ...
    And you say "weapons are in the hands of ordinary citizens." This is scary. An official turns out to be equal to a simple, battered citizen. Equality must be corrected!
  8. Stas57
    Stas57 19 June 2016 08: 42
    +7
    Posted by Maria Cher

    uh? journalism faculty of Moscow State University?
    for example, Mikhail Degtyarev, editor-in-chief of the profile magazine Kalashnikov. “I think it's safe on the streets not where everyone has pistols, but where there are no pistols. Take, for example, American statistics - this year, in Chicago alone on Veterans Day, six people died from firearms, last year - fourteen, "he says.
    stop, Masha, and where does the short barrel?

    I didn’t see people on the street. carrying a fence with them. MP, MG, Maxim
  9. D. Dan
    D. Dan 19 June 2016 09: 04
    +7
    One thing I will say from a free slave is always distinguished by special thinking and the presence of weapons. In a medieval geyropka they always hung up for the presence of weapons, but in Russia, we didn’t go beyond the threshold without a knife and a gun. The question? And who are our deputies so afraid of, and are they OUR?
  10. uzer 13
    uzer 13 19 June 2016 10: 45
    +10
    A lot has been written about civilian weapons, but there are no improvements. The media work in one direction and stubbornly give out horror stories about the dangers of these terrible guns. For some reason, they don’t report anything about the dangers of kitchen knives, with which the vast majority of domestic murders are committed. About the dangers of cars, through whose fault 25-30 thousand people die every year, also keep quiet.
    The car is not accused of murder, but the weapon is accused. It means that there is an order for such a shameless lie and the subsequent tightening laws. I’ll say straight-comrades, driving around in armored Mercedes under protection, are afraid of their people and by hook or by crook try to disarm them. , apparently, that social inequality has crossed all permissible boundaries. That is why all the resources of the media, deputies, the Ministry of Internal Affairs are connected, in the hope of forming an "objective public opinion" and at the "workers' request" generally take away all hunting weapons from the population. And how long have these weapons been sold in sporting goods on a hunting ticket and its registration in the Ministry of Internal Affairs did not exist at all. Something I do not remember any showdown with weapons, although in rural areas everyone had them. And hung on a nail without any safes. Let’s then, with the permission of the Ministry of Internal Affairs, sell boots, or televisions, they can also be declared dangerous items.
    1. Hon
      Hon 19 June 2016 14: 00
      +1
      In general, it is not clear why SVT-O seems more dangerous than a "tiger" or "boar".
    2. Monarchist
      Monarchist 19 June 2016 14: 10
      0
      Introduce restrictions on such weapons, stupidity agrees. True, I have a suspicion that you are a communist. It was then that the Communists first began to take away weapons from the people. Stalin was true tyranny, but the hunting rifles were freely sold, and the librarian NS Khrushchev (in hell was his place) began to restrict. So the current authorities continue what you started.
  11. PKK
    PKK 19 June 2016 10: 46
    +2
    Glazed weapons are necessary in military-patriotic training, schools, Cossacks who are engaged in combat training. This is mandatory, and the rest will be able to maintain order with weapons, sell. Hunting from combat is quite harmless.
    1. Hon
      Hon 19 June 2016 14: 03
      +1
      I would refrain from maintaining law and order with weapons. All the same, weapons in our country are needed for hunting, entertaining shooting and just for those who want to own
  12. Verdun
    Verdun 19 June 2016 11: 19
    +15
    The position that our legislation takes in relation to the possession of weapons by citizens of the country is openly hypocritical. In this case, as a rule, they press on two circumstances.
    1. There has never been a culture of gun ownership in Russia. This is an outright lie. With some restrictions, the carrying of weapons in Russia has always been allowed. Including firearms. Even the “bloody despot,” as some call him, Stalin, did not forbid the possession and carrying of weapons.
    2. Citizens of our country are not ready to own a weapon for self-defense. (Figuratively speaking, the state a priori considers the citizens of its country ""). At the same time, it is ready to entrust the 18-year-old guy not only with an assault rifle, but also with a tank and control of missiles from the remote control, to protect the existing state system. It's ready to send this guy to war. And when he returns home, he is told that he cannot, due to his moral and intellectual unpreparedness, acquire a weapon for self-defense.
    The reasoning that as a result of the availability of weapons around the country will be a wave of crime will not stand up to criticism at all. If desired, a person can be killed with a kitchen knife or fork. Which, in fact, most often happens during a showdown in a drunken stupor. Firearms mean precise control. And you need to be a complete idiot to commit a crime from a trunk registered in a file cabinet. But in order to prevent weapons from falling into the hands of idiots, the state should already be monitoring.
    1. The comment was deleted.
  13. ALEA IACTA EST
    ALEA IACTA EST 19 June 2016 11: 41
    .
    The fewer weapons, the better.
    1. Monarchist
      Monarchist 19 June 2016 14: 19
      +5
      Completely ban weapons, axes and hammers - also weapons, but gum! Remember how slingshots were made in childhood, and some were very dangerous. Look, someone will make such a slingshot and God forbid, there will be gadgets in your ass
      1. gavrosh.ru
        gavrosh.ru 20 June 2016 20: 09
        0
        a very correct slingshot weapon. skill current requires ...
    2. Verdun
      Verdun 19 June 2016 21: 21
      +2
      Quote: ALEA IACTA EST
      The fewer weapons, the better.

      A very convenient situation for wolves.
      1. libivs
        libivs 20 June 2016 10: 51
        0
        shovels ... shovels also forbid, because what a horror how many weapons of the menacing and invincible construction battalion in the hands of the population!
  14. Castor oil
    Castor oil 19 June 2016 12: 08
    +6
    It echoes our realities, although it happens in America .... and Sarah, though a fool, agrees with her, and how she gave a shit about the obama:
    "" "Palin called Obama" a complete fool "because of the gun control of US citizens
    Former Alaskan governor and influential conservative politician Sarah Palin said that US President Barack Obama is "a complete fool" ....
    "If the mad terrorist in Orlando does not represent all followers of Islam, then why are you implying that he represents all gun owners?" - the politician turned to the president. And why, after the shooting, you always want to take away the weapons from those people who are not guilty of anything and did nothing, she added.

    http://www.gazeta.ru...n_8779139.shtml
  15. Basil50
    Basil50 19 June 2016 12: 09
    +5
    Our legislators, policemen, and other representatives of all branches of government are protected by the law and completely legal private security companies armed and having only rights, without any obligations and responsibilities. Well, do not take the same punishment for excommunication. That's just RUSSIAN CITIZENS do not have the right to protection, even children and wives do not have the right to protect, criminal liability is inevitable, even if prevented the murder. Such a reverent attitude towards bandits and criminals only confirms that all these gangs and bandits are necessary for something, and no one in the government plans to destroy them. It is from here that the disarmament of citizens, lest * Allah *, do not * offend * the bandits those whom they attacked. So the collectors were invented for the outlawed bandits and fired policemen, everything for feeding * the injured * from the law.
    1. sub307
      sub307 19 June 2016 17: 02
      +2
      Our "tops" are afraid of their people with weapons like fire ....
      1. Maxim73
        Maxim73 20 June 2016 18: 08
        0
        And crossbows .... So much afraid of crossbows in the hands of the population ...

        Who is there afraid of? The emergency mode will be announced, the district police officer with an employee from LRO will stick to you, they will seize your legal weapons before the end of the emergency mode and no fears.
    2. saygon66
      saygon66 19 June 2016 17: 56
      +1
      - Is it okay that an employee of a private security company, having passed weapons and duty, turns into an ordinary citizen, with all the consequences you mentioned?
      - In the case of the use of weapons (special equipment), the management prefers to disown the employee, (it doesn’t matter whether the use is lawful or not) leaving him to rake the situation on his own ...
      1. Basil50
        Basil50 20 June 2016 09: 33
        0
        66.
        The fact that you wrote only confirms that while the security officers protect them, almost everything can be protected, but as soon as they rest from the guard, then ....
      2. The comment was deleted.
  16. snow779
    snow779 19 June 2016 12: 19
    +7
    I have a CBT -40, a mosquito 32 years old and SCS. And now what? Hand over? I'd rather drown them or bury them and say that they drowned ...
    1. Monarchist
      Monarchist 19 June 2016 14: 23
      +1
      Be silent, otherwise they will come "drive, the trunks. He himself boasted that there is"
    2. not main
      not main 19 June 2016 21: 06
      0
      Quote: snow779
      I have a CBT -40, a mosquito 32 years old and SCS. And now what? Hand over? I'd rather drown them or bury them and say that they drowned ...

      It’s only desirable to water (with oil) in the dark, otherwise the neighbors will guess!
    3. Maxim73
      Maxim73 20 June 2016 18: 04
      0
      And someone is going to take "your precious" from you?
    4. gavrosh.ru
      gavrosh.ru 20 June 2016 20: 15
      0
      drowned at the crossing - a fine of 2500 rubles per barrel and all business hiand not the only ones in the collection - you can appreciate the connoisseur
  17. Massik
    Massik 19 June 2016 13: 06
    +1
    To ban "fencing" it is necessary and it will be very correct. Much better to sell everything as it is, without any "fencing".
    1. Ilya Mikhalych
      Ilya Mikhalych 19 June 2016 14: 04
      +3
      Quote: Marssik
      To ban "fencing" it is necessary and it will be very correct. Much better to sell everything as it is, without any "fencing".

      With combat DP on "moose" wassat
    2. Bolhevik
      Bolhevik 20 June 2016 18: 01
      0
      Please argue - the idea is certainly understandable, not a civilized unit is registered. But in the case of deactivation, this is a collectible exhibit for a connoisseur, and if necessary, an action movie - a seamless gas pipe + spring and a drilled bolt of 14, turn into BORZ.
      So can ban pipes?
    3. Kotyara Fat
      Kotyara Fat 29 June 2016 13: 10
      0
      Yes ... And it’s a little more expensive and cheaper ...
  18. marshes
    marshes 19 June 2016 13: 39
    +1
    You can minus.
    Here in Aktobe, religious fanatics seized part of the smooth-bore weapons from weapons stores, by the way there were units who were not combat-ready, so that later they would be able to capture military weapons in the military unit, which then only the Almighty would know ...
    Therefore, I am grateful to the Ministry of Internal Affairs for what, that unregistered weapons are withdrawn from circulation.
    Himself as a hunter, the owner of rifled and smooth-bore weapons, met with another new precinct.
    In principle, during a daytime attack on the house, I won’t have time to get to the safe room, the hope is only for dogs.
    In the car, only a chance tool-ax and sapper blade.
    If in our country all types of weapons are banned except for the smooth-bore barrel, I will undercut this law. I only need weapons to protect against wolves that attack cattle on the hacienda, and shoot small game in the season.
    1. Verdun
      Verdun 19 June 2016 21: 16
      +1
      Quote: marshes
      In principle, during a daytime attack on the house, I won’t have time to get to the safe room, the hope is only for dogs.

      Do you have a Winter Palace?))
      1. marshes
        marshes 19 June 2016 21: 34
        0
        Quote: Verdun
        Do you have a Winter Palace?))

        No, a normal house of 200 sq.m.
        There is simply a safe room, it and a safety room. Concrete in a circle of 100 mm. and 20 mm steel, 3.
        Himself from the "survivors." In barrels, dry ration and individual means. protection.
        1. Verdun
          Verdun 19 June 2016 23: 35
          +1
          Quote: marshes
          Himself from the "survivalists."

          Then, I suppose, they should agree with me.
          Here in Aktobe, religious fanatics seized part of the smooth-bore weapons from weapons stores, by the way there were units who were not combat-ready, so that later they would be able to capture military weapons in the military unit, which then only the Almighty would know ...
          Therefore, I am grateful to the Ministry of Internal Affairs for what, that unregistered weapons are withdrawn from circulation.
          Capturing an arms store is possible only in two cases.
          1. The store has a shitty guard. There is nothing to do with the weapon.
          2. Capture - a pre-planned and competently conducted operation. In such a situation, both unarmed and armed people are powerless. Such a development of events can be prevented only through the intelligence work of the relevant authorities, because you cannot put up a checkpoint at every weapons store.
          At the same time, I completely agree with you that unregistered weapons should be withdrawn from circulation. But if a normal law on weapons is adopted, it becomes possible to acquire precisely registered weapons. A person who has committed a crime with a weapon registered in a card index is much easier to track down than someone who has used an unrecorded or ordinary knife. What is wrong if a law is passed according to which a sane citizen of the country who does not have conflicts with the law will be able to acquire weapons to protect his life? Of course, the law should be pretty tough. The purchased pistol should not lie in a linen drawer or shopping bag with potatoes. For example, I am convinced that gun owners must regularly, at least once a month, visit a shooting range or a shooting range, where they learn to use their purchase, and pass certain standards. And if the law is "about carrying weapons", then you will not have to run to the weapons room.
          1. would
            would 20 June 2016 02: 52
            0
            It is much easier to calculate a person who committed a crime with the help of a weapon registered in a file cabinet than someone who used an unaccounted-for or ordinary knife.


            Here I agree and note a simple thing: The same "Nagans" in the country are like dirt (they have been made in huge quantities since the days of the Empire) and as far as I know they are sold for very little money. The provincial killers have no problem throwing off the old one and buying a new one. The situation with the PM is a little better, the main word here is "a little". A legal short-barreled barn is more expensive, to put it mildly, it is banal financially unprofitable for a criminal to buy it.
            1. Bolhevik
              Bolhevik 20 June 2016 18: 06
              0
              A master of his craft - "the one whose hand does not tremble", will easily and without noise put the bearing not taken into account from the slingshot anywhere - in the temple, eye or below the crown.
              1. gavrosh.ru
                gavrosh.ru 20 June 2016 20: 27
                0
                lead in the right form is more reliable
  19. Shelest2000
    Shelest2000 19 June 2016 13: 44
    +11
    Quote: valent45
    It’s time to pass a law on the legality of keeping and carrying a firearm, a ban only for
    certain categories of citizens (it’s easy to guess which ones).

    Alas, not in our country. In Russia, weapons cannot be given to citizens, from the point of view of the authorities, because the psychology of an armed person changes. In the vast majority, he becomes more conscientious, less drinking, more intolerant of insults, bullying and outright physical attacks on himself and others. Then it would be possible to forget about the road attacks of the crazed dolboyas on cool cars, and the officials, then - aggressive scum will be shot in the first six months. An armed citizen becomes a completely different person. And which official, and especially the policemen, would like the deprivation of a large part of the monopoly on the use of force? Indeed, from their point of view, a citizen should be stupid (hello USE and Dom-2), be afraid of everything and everyone (officials, policemen, devil ... x "guests" from the south and the authorities tenderly covering these "guests"), unarmed and submissive fate, where officials of all levels consider themselves to be the fate of citizens ...
    Vova, when asked about the legalization of short-barrels in Russia, repeats his favorite mantra with an enviable simplicity: "The Russians are early, they are not yet mature enough, they will kill each other ..." , storage, wearing and use of short-barrels suddenly sharply, in six months or a year, street crime fell by 50-70%. And we, you see, are different ...
    Neither Vova nor his henchmen ever talk about the real numbers of murders in Russia. And according to the research institute of the Prosecutor General’s Office of the Russian Federation, up to 50 (fifty !!!!!) criminal murders take place in Russia each year, which is several times more than in the United States, where about 315 million weapons are carried by 270 million and where 60% of crimes are stopped by armed citizens. 50 thousand, the population of a decent regional city, every year ... About hundreds of thousands of remaining crippled, beaten, raped, robbed
    1. bandabas
      bandabas 19 June 2016 21: 42
      0
      I perfectly know the North Caucasus. There are trunks-immeasurably. Why can't a Russian have a weapon at home? I want to, but. Go through the circles of hell, pay a ton of money and keep locked in a safe with our realities? There is complete discrimination against Russians.
      1. cth; fyn
        cth; fyn 20 June 2016 05: 17
        0
        They also forgot that discharged and spare shops should also be discharged.
      2. Maxim73
        Maxim73 20 June 2016 17: 32
        -1
        Who is stopping you from getting a permit for a smooth-bore hunting weapon and buying a "horizontal line" ?! For self-defense purposes, 2 cartridges of 12 gauge - for the eyes! Open the safe and throw in two cartridges ...
  20. Shelest2000
    Shelest2000 19 June 2016 14: 05
    0
    About hundreds of thousands of crippled, beaten, raped, robbed
  21. Shelest2000
    Shelest2000 19 June 2016 14: 26
    0
    Quote: Shelest2000
    About hundreds of thousands of crippled, beaten, raped, robbed

    I wanted to continue here, but the text had already disappeared three times. I would like the admins to check what happens byak ...
  22. Backfire
    Backfire 19 June 2016 14: 38
    0
    Quote: Razvedka_Boem
    In traffic accidents and medical errors, hundreds of thousands of people die annually. These are official statistics.
    The weapon is needed. A man with a weapon changes psychologically. He already ceases to be a "dumb brute", he can give an answer. This is what the authorities do not like.
    At the everyday level, after they deal with scumbags, people will become more polite and kinder ..)
    We can say that a man with a weapon is a killer! and other emotions.
    But it is not weapons that kill - man kills.
    The driver is also a potential killer, but he does not go to crush pedestrians.
    The risk of fatal accidents is higher than the risk of being robbed by a drug addict and even more so killed from a gunshot.
  23. saygon66
    saygon66 19 June 2016 16: 30
    0
    “You were afraid that Mateen would come to their night club?”
  24. magician
    magician 19 June 2016 20: 10
    +1
    Quote: valent45
    It’s time to pass a law on the legality of keeping and carrying a firearm, a ban only for
    certain categories of citizens (it’s easy to guess which ones).


    The main thing is to take into account the mentality of peoples in the Russian Federation. For example: for the peoples of the North, firearms and especially rifled weapons are a way of survival in difficult natural conditions. But what about the hot guys from the Caucasus? They also issue weapons without problems?
    1. would
      would 19 June 2016 20: 34
      0
      And the "hot guys from the Caucasus" do not ask anyone, they already have it and they do not hesitate to demonstrate it at various local holidays. As far as I know, in the villages on Eid al-Adha, they can shoot so it seems as if the war has begun. And Chechnya (and not only), as you know, does not obey Russian laws.
      1. marshes
        marshes 19 June 2016 21: 22
        0
        Quote: rait
        And the "hot guys from the Caucasus" do not ask anyone, they already have it and they do not hesitate to demonstrate it at various local holidays. As far as I know, in the villages on Eid al-Adha, they can shoot so it seems as if the war has begun. And Chechnya (and not only), as you know, does not obey Russian laws.

        I wonder if you and hot guys from the Caucasus went out once or twice? I went out myself, it’s strange that the Czech neighbors became the most decent friends.
        Take Malovodnoye before, the Kazakh Czech won the fight, the Czech knocked him down with a car then ... they smashed him to pieces, the arrow once and twice as many, the Czechs killed one machine gun, they brought an automatic gun on the rams, then they remembered the diaspora Utyrkov passed.
        I have never seen that the Slavs and the Vainakhs butted, well, except for the war in CRI and then on the news.
        So, you, the crowd of football fans in the Caucasus, are trying to ... well, they have a lot of happiness, in those years they could not break without bribing so that the channel for a long time.
  25. Prince of Pensions
    Prince of Pensions 19 June 2016 21: 08
    +1
    In the construction battalion, animals generally serve ...
  26. cariperpaint
    cariperpaint 20 June 2016 05: 03
    -1
    as soon as they allow legal citizens to have weapons, I’ll stupidly leave the country ... for 200 percent sure that this will start ...
    1. would
      would 20 June 2016 05: 13
      0
      Then take it and leave immediately. We already have legal ones: Assault shotguns of extreme lethality that simply annihilate biomass (12 gauge is a hellish thing, you can google photos of the same poor animals), after 5 years you can buy fenced AK under 5.45 and under 7.62, PP under 9x19 (Saiga-9 as example), sniper rifles up to high-precision ORSIS T5000M and Sako TRG, etc. And the smoothbore is formed without any problems. And if "this" should have begun, then it turns out it has already begun.
    2. gavrosh.ru
      gavrosh.ru 20 June 2016 20: 34
      0
      what is it? weapons in the country a dime a dozen from the Second World War but it is in the right hands. Right now, stupid people with traumatics and pneumatics are the main sources of problems
  27. cth; fyn
    cth; fyn 20 June 2016 05: 15
    0
    ... "We all remember the numerous shooting tragedies in American schools," the deputy explains.

    and after all, all these shootings in schools were committed by illegal weapons. For example, the shooting at the Sandy Hook school was carried out with the help of stolen trunks.
  28. Samuel Marshak
    Samuel Marshak 20 June 2016 06: 54
    +1
    Currently, the circulation of weapons is normal. Acquiring legally weapons is quite simple. Speech about the short barrel is special, in my opinion it is necessary to prohibit trauma, and allow the short barrel to people who have owned the long barrel for at least five years under existing conditions. Separately consider the issue of permitting storage at the place of residence and transportation to the venue of the competition or training of the sports short barrels for shooting athletes. It is impossible to forbid weapons, it’s clear that no one will hunt with a machine gun or PPSh, but things are very useful for the collection and military-patriotic clubs. On the contrary, it is necessary to develop a network of shooting facilities for a rifled barrel. (I would have scored more, but I'm tired of poking a finger on the tablet))
  29. lao_tsy
    lao_tsy 20 June 2016 07: 57
    0
    Yes, as usual! If everything is possible, then elitism disappears. Quod licet Govi, non licet bovi!
  30. TOZ-34
    TOZ-34 20 June 2016 10: 22
    0
    Well done our legislators !!! All problems have already been solved, the problem of "fencing" remains. By the way, why is this a problem?
    The law on weapons in terms of its circulation is not violated.
    The question is different. Why are the names and party affiliation of the deputies who want to "strangle" another production, sport, and a source of budget revenues not indicated? In my opinion, the country should know its "heroes". So that in the future, in no case should they be allowed to legislate. Stupidity should not be paid for by the state.
  31. d-shvets
    d-shvets 20 June 2016 12: 04
    0
    Yeah (((Everything is easier to ban in any way than to turn on the brain and come up with laws with clear rules.
  32. Essex62
    Essex62 20 June 2016 13: 24
    0
    Quote: Bolhevik
    Authorities wear a portrait of Tsar Nicholas in an immortal regiment and hang a tablet of Mannerheim, a fascist,
    only by the fact that the fists itch to beat us slaves, their head ached from the whining of the people. The sword a symbol of power in Russia could have abundantly, but everyone did not have a sword - it was a weapon easier in a hut up to a club. The lack of trust in their own people gives rise to impunity for bandits in the first place, what can a herd break into a wolf corral? So the guys are shepherds shepherds but looking into the eyes of a wolf, remove the sheep skin, be people. Once again, this law is stupid - because if war is tomorrow, it is even more criminal.

    "If tomorrow is war," the official barrel will be issued, if they have time, of course.
  33. tracer
    tracer 20 June 2016 17: 12
    +2
    For many years he was a hunter in Russia, and he had a rightly cut dice. Everything is clear with the legislation striving to limit the rights of weapons owners. I do not agree with this categorically. This is a betrayal of their people. How disgusting is the soul when Negroes shoot and praise from Soviet TTs, with svt 40 pimpled teenagers thresh. THE HEAD DOESN'T LAY OUT why a formidable weapon made by the hands of our parents is available to everyone except those to whom it should belong by right. Of course, with PPSh you can’t go hunting like a hazel grouse (and it’s impossible by grafting), but the caliber is rather weak for wild boar, but for collectors and weapon lovers this thing is priceless. The button-teenager, taking the hands of PPSh or Mosinka or Dyagter, suddenly begins to realize that there are things more serious than virtual toys. But there is one thing .. BUT! Weapons must be weapons. And not a model of rubber-gas shot ... With injuries people are always mutilated for no good reason ..... No, really .. I got the barrel, be ready to answer before the law. Having them, be kind to be responsible for safety and security. It is not necessary to ban a lot of mind.
  34. Maxim73
    Maxim73 20 June 2016 17: 16
    0
    As I see it, there is no problem in the production of the civilian "AKM". Previously, these same "AKM" were taken from arsenals and sawed into civilian weapons, and after the adoption of the law, these weapons will be produced immediately in civilian execution. To be honest, I don't quite understand all this masturbation about "real-combat-weapons", which, according to the law, cannot fire in bursts, and in addition is barbarously "fenced in" and pinned (I am not talking about the specificity of the weapon itself).
    For hunting, military weapons are very conditionally suitable, but for IPSishnikov ... Well, I don’t know, it’s not such a big layer of weapon owners to listen to them.

    It is high time to "clean out" all this old stuff from the warehouses and send it for melting.
  35. Maxim73
    Maxim73 20 June 2016 17: 28
    0
    Quote: tracer
    Weapons must be weapons. And not a model of a rubber-gas shot ... From injuries people are always mutilated for no good reason ..... No, really .. I got the barrel, be ready to answer before the law. Having them, be kind to be responsible for safety and security. It is not necessary to ban a lot of mind.

    Yes you are idealist lol
  36. tracer
    tracer 20 June 2016 17: 54
    0
    And nothing unusual, just "life experience"))).
  37. Maxim73
    Maxim73 20 June 2016 20: 22
    0
    Quote: gavrosh.ru
    drowned at the crossing - a fine of 2500 rubles per barrel and all business hiand not the only ones in the collection - you can appreciate the connoisseur

    ... shall be punished by restraint of liberty for a term of up to three years, or arrest for a term of up to six months, or imprisonment for a term of up to four years with a fine of up to eighty thousand rubles or in the amount of the convict's wage or other income for a period of up to three months or without one ...

    This is article 222 of the Criminal Code;)
  38. Titsen
    Titsen 28 June 2016 17: 01
    0
    Yes, it's OK to hunt with VPO-136 (AKM)!
    1. Maxim73
      Maxim73 28 June 2016 17: 22
      0
      And what is this normality for you?