Military Review

Erdogan and "deserved level"

150
The other day, Vladimir Putin received a letter. From R.T. Erdogan. The Turkish President congratulated the Russian leader on the Day of Russia and wished the relations of Russia and Turkey to reach a “deserved level”. At the same time, Turkish Prime Minister B. Yildirim sent a letter to his Russian counterpart D. Medvedev, where he also expressed hope that the two states would achieve the level necessary "for the common interests of our peoples."

Erdogan and "deserved level"


As reported by 14 Jun RIA News", Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan wrote a letter to Vladimir Putin. The leader of Turkey congratulated the Russians on the past Day of Russia, and also wished the relations between the two states to reach a “deserved level”.

“Dear Mr. President! On behalf of all the Turkish people in your person, I congratulate all Russians on the Day of Russia, and I also wish that in the upcoming time relations between Russia and Turkey will reach a deserved level, ”the RIA news letter quotedNews».

From the Kremlin reported that the letter Erdogan was indeed sent. “The message came through the channels of the Foreign Ministry,” said Dmitry Peskov, press secretary of the Russian president.

There was also a second letter, which the Prime Minister of Turkey, Binali Yildirim, sent to the head of the Russian Cabinet of Ministers, Dmitry Medvedev.

Mr. Yıldırım expressed the hope that "in the coming time, cooperation and relations between our countries will reach a level that is necessary for the common interests of our peoples." Yıldırım also wished the Russians “well-being and prosperity”.

15 June in the Russian press there was a comment of the Turkish messages of the press secretary of the president Dmitry Peskov.

“This is a protocol message,” Peskova quotes. RBC. - Traditionally there is an exchange of such messages on the occasion of national days. This is a protocol and common practice in international relations. To our regret, there were no other, substantial moments in it ”.

According to the spokesman, it was the first official letter from Turkey after the situation with the Russian Su-24, shot down by the Turkish Air Force.

Putin will not respond to congratulations, writes Interfax.

The message that the President of Turkey sent to the President of Russia on the occasion of the Day of Russia does not contain points requiring an answer, said D. Peskov. Answering the question whether similar messages continue to be received in cases of aggravated relations between states, Peskov said: “Sometimes they do, and sometimes they don’t, it depends on the situation.”

“This year (a message from the Turkish leadership) arrived, but this is the first National Day after the attack of Turkey on our plane,” said the press secretary of the Russian president.

The message of Erdogan and the letter of the Turkish prime minister, we note, say that Ankara is urgently seeking rapprochement with Moscow. Tensions and losses from the lurching tourism industry are clearly worrying “neo-sultan”. Erdogan goes roundabout paths, not wanting to apologize for the tragedy in the sky.

Letters to Putin and Medvedev are not the first attempts to improve the spoiled relations. Recall that at the end of last month R.T. Erdogan stated that he was ready “to solve the problem in a relationship“ as soon as possible ”, but the trouble is: he doesn’t know how to approach it. According to him, he does not understand what the first step Russians expect from Turkey. Turks do not want to quarrel with Russia, on the contrary, they want to "develop relations".

As for Moscow, Ankara was explained there long ago that the first step should be an apology and compensation for the downed aircraft. But it seems that the admission of guilt is not at all in the style of "neosultan" behavior. To apologize is to admit your mistake and repent. Yes, even in public. And not just publicly: the whole world will hear a request for forgiveness. What sultan will go on it? In any case, not Erdogan. He never sinned in wisdom before. The rude, authoritarian policy line and the desire to make Turkey a super-presidential republic also speaks of Erdogan’s high self-esteem. But the problems in the economy, empty hotels in the country do not speak about success, but about the failure of the “Sultan's” policy.

Ankara's attempts to act letters commented BFM.ru Editor of the Problems of National Strategy magazine of the Russian Institute for Strategic Studies Azhdar Kurtov. According to him, the message of the President of Turkey "is not of significant importance."

“I believe that this letter does not have any significant meaning, and it is not worthwhile to attach any great importance to it. There are situations in national practice, national holidays or some kind of natural disasters, terrorist acts, when it is accepted, in spite of whatever relations exist between leaders, between states, to express either condolences or congratulate the heads of other states, which was done in the present moment turkey. The phrase allegedly contained in this letter that there is hope that Erdogan hopes for the restoration of normal relations with Russia, she does not carry much meaning. Stubbornly Erdogan does not want to admit the obvious and for his guilt, for his deed, for the downed Russian military aircraft. And without this, as Vladimir Vladimirovich Putin has repeatedly said, there can be no talk of progress. ”


Turkish political scientists tend to blame for the deterioration of relations between Russia and Turkey, some external forces. “In recent years, political and economic relations between Turkey and Russia have been important and strategic. In order to understand the situation as a whole, it is necessary to figure out who could have been harmed by projects such as the Turkish Stream, the construction of a nuclear power plant in Turkey according to the Russian project, ”he quotes Utro.ru Najie Celine Shenojak, Head of the Diplomatic Center for Strategic Studies and Head of the Department of Cultural Diplomacy, University of Paris.

The European Union is also agitated by the topic of tense relations between Russia and Turkey. Erdogan's letter became an occasion for interviewing experts. For example, "Deutsche Welle" She took an interest in the opinion of the editor-in-chief of Russia in Global Affairs magazine, the chairman of the presidium of the Council on Foreign and Defense Policy, Fedor Lukyanov.

The expert believes that this letter to Putin is an attempt by the Turkish leader to demonstrate that Ankara “wants to turn the page in relations with Russia” and return to normal working relations. However, letters are not enough to normalize relations, Lukyanov said in an interview with DW.

He further recalled that in the Kremlin they had repeatedly spoken about their expectation from the Turkish side of an official apology and compensation for the family of the deceased pilot and for the downed plane.

Moscow is ready to discuss the resumption of relations, Lukyanov admits, however “I think it’s impossible to do without apologies and publicly admitting mistakes from Turkey,” the chairman of the Council on Foreign and Defense Policy noted.

Recall, the relations of Russia and Turkey fell into a period of serious crisis after the tragedy in the sky, which occurred in November 2015, when the Turkish fighter shot down the Russian Su-24 in the sky over Syria. The Turkish side assures the world community that the plane violated its airspace, and Moscow denies this.

Observed and commented on Oleg Chuvakin
- especially for topwar.ru
Photos used:
© AFP 2016 / Ozan Kose
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  1. Humpty
    Humpty 17 June 2016 06: 02
    +5
    I apologize in advance for being off topic.
    Dear compatriots, are you in good health with the country's leaders? Look at the windows. Maybe a monument is being erected on your street in Vlasov.
    "IN RUSSIA 14:37, June 16, 2016
    Mannerheim memorial plaque opened in St. Petersburg
    Moscow. June 16th. INTERFAX.RU - Head of the Kremlin administration Sergei Ivanov attended a ceremony to erect a memorial plaque to Finnish Field Marshal Karl Mannerheim in St. Petersburg.

    A memorial plaque in honor of Mannerheim was installed on the facade of the building of the Military Academy of Logistics on Zakharyevskaya Street in St. Petersburg. "

    "The street before the opening was deliberately blocked off, as Fontanka points out, which did not save the ceremony from protesters shouting" Shame! "
    1. Ruslan67
      Ruslan67 17 June 2016 06: 11
      +24
      Quote: Humpty
      shouting "Shame!".

      After all, he is not only a Finnish field marshal but also a lieutenant general of the Russian army With undeniable merits to Russia So what kind of buoy?
      1. igorka357
        igorka357 17 June 2016 06: 16
        +5
        Ruslan, why bring up the past, the main thing is someone, I heard somewhere out of the corner of our ears that we fought with him, not even with him but with his government, that means he’s the enemy! ..how was he for example .. wink !
        1. Ruslan67
          Ruslan67 17 June 2016 06: 19
          +4
          Quote: igorka357
          , why bring up the past, the main thing is someone, somewhere I heard with our ears that we fought with him,

          Really request Why am I writing all sorts of crap recourse
          1. Alexander Romanov
            Alexander Romanov 17 June 2016 06: 33
            +6
            Quote: Ruslan67
            Why am I writing all sorts of crap

            Ruslan, you still give them a lecture on the history of Russia wink
            1. Ruslan67
              Ruslan67 17 June 2016 06: 36
              +1
              Quote: Alexander Romanov
              you still give a lecture on the history of Russia

              Enough am I sat in a bath sad But how can one not get on these?
              1. Alexander Romanov
                Alexander Romanov 17 June 2016 06: 56
                -1
                Quote: Ruslan67
                But how can one not get on these?

                Yes this is Kokorin laughing
                1. Ruslan67
                  Ruslan67 17 June 2016 06: 58
                  +1
                  Quote: Alexander Romanov
                  Yes this is Kokorin

                  Full Berezutsky fool
          2. Gvas1174
            Gvas1174 17 June 2016 14: 58
            +3
            Yes, people are racking their brains over the entire former union: Kadyrov’s bridge, Mannerheim’s board, what the hell is going on? Remind me how many of us were killed in the Finnish company? And they still go on the network with personnel.
            Yes, he changed his views, but he became "nashinsky" but there was blood on his hands. Petersburg liberoid fuckers had to think with their heads
        2. Zoldat_A
          Zoldat_A 17 June 2016 06: 40
          +22
          Quote: igorka357
          someone, somewhere, I heard from the edge of our ears that we fought with him, not even with him but with his government, which means he is an enemy!

          Once at Solovyov's, someone advised Borisborisych Nadezhdin, a well-known fan of Wikipedia, to "go ... read Wikipedia." Let's try and we ...
          Led by Gustav Mannerheim Finnish troops managed to withstand the first blow of the Red Army units and successfully conduct military operations against an enemy of numerical superiority. At the same time, Mannerheim actively corresponded with the heads of European states, tried to get military or at least material support from them.
          This is about Finnish. But about the Great Patriotic War -
          By order of Mannerheim The Finnish fleet began mining in Soviet territorial waters in the Gulf of Finland on the eve of the German attack on the Soviet Union. Thus, Finland began aggression against the USSR even before the German aggression.

          In his order on the offensive, Mannerheim clearly set a goal not only to “regain” all the territories captured by the USSR during the Soviet-Finnish War 1939-1940, but also to expand its borders to the White Sea, annex the Kola Peninsula.
          Yes, both the first time and the second went, for various reasons, crustacean backward. But he fought !!!! And this is no longer "out of the blue" ... Just an ENEMY!
          1. Ruslan67
            Ruslan67 17 June 2016 06: 50
            +1
            Quote: Zoldat_A
            "go ... read Wikipedia". Let's try and we ...

            Not worth it No.
            Quote: Zoldat_A
            Under the leadership of Gustav Mannerheim, the Finnish troops managed to withstand the first blow of the Red Army units and successfully conduct military operations against an enemy of numerical superiority.

            This can be done yes If you can read recourse
        3. Beefeater
          Beefeater 17 June 2016 07: 43
          0
          Quote: igorka357
          Ruslan, why bring up the past, the main thing is someone, I heard somewhere out of the corner of our ears that we fought with him, not even with him but with his government, that means he’s the enemy! ..how was he for example .. wink !

          For example, I drank a glass of vodka before dinner and this fashion took root in the Finnish General Staff.
          The merits of this person in world politics are marked in particular by the largest number of higher orders of different countries of the world.
          1. kagorta
            kagorta 17 June 2016 09: 16
            +4
            Forshmak still loved a snack. With his light hand, this Jewish dish became popular in Finland. Probably taught in cavalry guards.
        4. Monarchist
          Monarchist 17 June 2016 09: 25
          -1
          Indeed, it is necessary to know the history well because even Cato the elder said “History teaches life.” By the way, somewhere in the internet I came across the memoirs of Mannerheim himself. I advise you to search and read
        5. gray smeet
          gray smeet 17 June 2016 15: 52
          +5
          Quote: igorka357
          Ruslan, why bring up the past, the main thing someone, somewhere, I heard from the edge of our ears that we fought with him, not even with him but with his government, which means he is an enemy!For example, people don’t know what it would take to study history, to find out for a person .. wink !


          You tell me at the Piskaryovskoye Memorial Cemetery ....
        6. bobba94
          bobba94 18 June 2016 20: 26
          +3
          Yes, Finland was an ally of the 3rd Reich. Yes, Mannerheim had 3 reich rewards. But let us recall that such an interesting alliance of Finland and such an interesting military assistance to Germany during the siege of Leningrad, in many ways allowed Leningrad to survive. During World War II, the alliance of Mannerheim with Germany was, in fact, neutrality under the screen of alliance. This is the merit of Mannerheim.
      2. Teberii
        Teberii 17 June 2016 06: 19
        -1
        Participant of the "Brusilov Breakthrough", and the fact that he is Finnish, since Finland was part of the Russian Empire. He was engaged in the formation of the Finnish state, organized a defense line, so it was their territory. Tried to return them under the Germans, it’s true, you should not forget about it.
        1. Ruslan67
          Ruslan67 17 June 2016 06: 27
          +1
          Quote: Teberii
          Participant of the Brusilov Breakthrough,

          Quote: Teberii
          . Engaged in the formation of the Finnish state, organized a line of defense,

          Quote: Teberii
          .Tried with the Germans to return them something true, do not forget about it.

          Defended the interests of his state And everything must be remembered By the way, Finland still left the war
          1. V.ic
            V.ic 17 June 2016 10: 15
            +10
            Quote: Ruslan67
            And you need to remember everything. By the way, Finland did leave the war.

            But where did this Finland go in 1944? We were glad that the German pederasts jumped off the bayonet of the Red Army!
          2. Idiot
            Idiot 18 June 2016 17: 14
            0
            Quote: Ruslan67
            By the way, Finland did leave the war


            You could say that. Cancer, but came out ...
        2. Beefeater
          Beefeater 17 June 2016 07: 56
          +3
          Quote: Teberii
          Participant of the "Brusilov Breakthrough", and the fact that he is Finnish, since Finland was part of the Russian Empire. He was engaged in the formation of the Finnish state, organized a defense line, so it was their territory. Tried to return them under the Germans, it’s true, you should not forget about it.

          He is a Swede.
        3. def89
          def89 17 June 2016 10: 47
          +11
          And Finnish troops participated in the blockade of Leningrad.
      3. Mavrikiy
        Mavrikiy 17 June 2016 06: 20
        +11
        Quote: Ruslan67
        Quote: Humpty
        shouting "Shame!".

        After all, he is not only a Finnish field marshal but also a lieutenant general of the Russian army With undeniable merits to Russia So what kind of buoy?

        Vlasov is not only a traitor, but also a lieutenant general, with merits. Worthy of the monument according to your logic.
        1. Ruslan67
          Ruslan67 17 June 2016 06: 23
          +1
          Quote: Mavrikiy
          traitor,

          Whom did Mannerheim betray?
          1. Ami du peuple
            Ami du peuple 17 June 2016 06: 29
            +5
            Quote: Ruslan67
            Whom did Mannerheim betray?
            Yes, no one except the Emperor. But then many sinned. My opinion: it would not be worthwhile to put such a board - the ambiguous personality of Baron Mannerheim, but also it is not worthwhile to attach such great importance to the fact of perpetuation of his memory and to draw some deep-seeing conclusions. Are there any other problems?
            1. igorka357
              igorka357 17 June 2016 08: 26
              0
              Can you ask "something is wrong in the kingdom" how Mannerheim betrayed the emperor ..)))?
            2. tacet
              tacet 17 June 2016 12: 40
              +7
              “Yes, no one, except for the Emperor.” And the emperor betrayed his state and his people.
          2. V.ic
            V.ic 17 June 2016 10: 20
            +4
            Quote: Ruslan67
            Whom did Mannerheim betray?

            Finland, under his leadership, fought against the USSR. Such as you are unable to accept the fact that the USSR, led by I.V. Stalin, was in fact the successor of the Republic of Ingushetia in the struggle against the West / l / a.
            1. igorka357
              igorka357 17 June 2016 10: 28
              +3
              So Mannerheim did not serve the USSR, he served the Republic of Ingushetia! By your logic, are all the officers of the CIS traitors? All the officers who swore allegiance to the Soviet Union, and now they are officers of the armies of Azerbaijan, Tajikistan and so on ... they are all traitors, and should have remained to serve in the Russian army , after the collapse of the USSR? Complete nonsense!
            2. Beefeater
              Beefeater 17 June 2016 11: 05
              +1
              Quote: V.ic
              Quote: Ruslan67
              Whom did Mannerheim betray?

              Finland, under his leadership, fought against the USSR. Such as you are unable to accept the fact that the USSR, led by I.V. Stalin, was in fact the successor of the Republic of Ingushetia in the struggle against the West / l / a.

              Did RI fight against the West. RI was part of the Western world, with its originality but part. And in no way fought with the West. The USSR, on the other hand, inherited its foreign policy from the International. The task of which was the world revolution.
              1. V.ic
                V.ic 17 June 2016 13: 22
                +4
                Quote: Beefeater
                Did RI fight against the West.

                The fight against the Polish-Swedish intervention 400 years ago, "The Great Northern War of 1700-1721", The War with "Twelve Languages ​​led by the Bonaparte," The Crimean War, The Great Patriotic War.
                Quote: Beefeater
                The USSR, on the other hand, inherited its foreign policy from the International.

                The question is like in the movie "Chapaev": which International?
                Quote: Beefeater
                at the International. The task of which was the world revolution.

                And how Comrade Did Stalin realize this task?
                1. Beefeater
                  Beefeater 17 June 2016 22: 52
                  0
                  Polish intervention is not easy. At first, the war was not waged with Poland, but with the Polish magnates. The troops were half Orthodox. T e from Russian. The Swedes at this stage fought on the side of the Russians for Tsar Shuisky. Then the Polish prince was called to the Moscow throne and was nearly crowned. So the kings of Poland 30 years later were called Russian tsars. And where is the West? Russians vs Russians.
                2. Beefeater
                  Beefeater 17 June 2016 23: 13
                  -1
                  The Northern War was a multi-vector event with diverse participants. Coalitions of Western countries in alliance with Russia and Britain in the background.
                  Same thing with Napoleon.
                  The same is with Frederick.
                  No confrontation with the West. Rather, the participation of Russia in the western showdown.
                  And indeed, how did Stalin promote the ideas of the International? Can you tell me when the "people's revolutions" took place in Eastern Europe, China, Korea, Vietnam ...
                  1. Idiot
                    Idiot 18 June 2016 17: 21
                    0
                    Quote: Beefeater
                    The Northern War was a multi-vector event with diverse participants. Coalitions of Western countries in alliance with Russia and Britain in the background. The same with Napoleon. The same with Frederick. No confrontation with the West


                    And with Hitler as well. Just a part in the western showdown ...
          3. Mavrikiy
            Mavrikiy 17 June 2016 10: 35
            0
            Quote: Ruslan67
            Quote: Mavrikiy
            traitor,

            Whom did Mannerheim betray?

            I wrote: "Vlasov is not only a traitor, but also a lieutenant general with merit. Worthy of a monument according to your logic."
            Where does it say that Mannerheim is a traitor?
            Distort.
          4. kotvov
            kotvov 17 June 2016 18: 49
            0
            Whom did Mannerheim betray?
            Of course he didn’t betray, he simply participated in the war on the side of Hitler. Also in the blockade of Leningrad, where, among other things, hundreds of thousands of our compatriots died. And so you look, well, an angel.
            1. Ruslan67
              Ruslan67 17 June 2016 18: 53
              +2
              Quote: kotvov
              just participated in the war on the side of Hitler. also in the blockade of Leningrad,

              Former Russian general against the Soviet Union and the Bolsheviks request Have you tried to separate personal perception from real history? hi
              1. Stanislas
                Stanislas 17 June 2016 20: 38
                -1
                Quote: Ruslan67
                Former Russian general against the Soviet Union and the Bolsheviks
                Of course, not a traitor, but the catch is that the most significant successes of this commander are not in the war with the Japanese, but in the war with our country. In this sense, right, umv, Ami du peuple, a plaque would be just right.
              2. Camel
                Camel 17 June 2016 21: 04
                +5
                Dear Ruslan67, sorry for the extensive quotation, but it is necessary:

                On June 29, crossing the border, the Finnish army began military operations against the USSR. At the Karelian Isthmus, the Finns initially showed little activity [28] [29]. A major Finnish offensive in the direction of Leningrad in this sector began on July 31. By early September, the Finns crossed the old Soviet-Finnish border on the Karelian Isthmus, which existed before the signing of the 1940 peace treaty, to a depth of 20 km and stopped at the turn of the Karelian fortified area [30]. The connection of Leningrad with the rest of the country through the territories occupied by Finland was restored in the summer of 1944.

                On September 4, 1941, the Chief of Staff of the operational command of the Wehrmacht Supreme Command, Lieutenant General Alfred Jodl, was sent to Mannerheim’s headquarters in Mikkeli. But he was refused the participation of the Finns in the attack on Leningrad. Instead, Mannerheim led successful offensive in the north of Ladoga, cutting the Kirov Railway, the White Sea-Baltic Canal in the region of Lake Onega and the Volga-Baltic Road in the Svir River region, thereby blocking a number of routes for delivering goods to Leningrad[31].

                On September 11, 1941, the President of Finland, Risto Ryti, declared to the German envoy in Helsinki:
                If Petersburg would no longer exist as a large city, then the Neva would be the best border on the Karelian Isthmus ... Leningrad must be eliminated as a large city.

                On September 4, 1941, the city was subjected to the first artillery shelling by the city of Tosno occupied by German troops:
                « In September 1941, a small group of officers on the instructions of the command rode in a motor car and a half on Lesnoy Avenue from Levashovo airfield. A little ahead of us was a tram crowded with people. He brakes before stopping, where there is a large group of waiting people. A shell burst is heard, and many at the bus stop fall, drenched in blood. The second gap, the third ... The tram is smashed to pieces. Piles of the slain. Wounded and crippled, mostly women and children, scattered along the cobblestone pavement, moaning and crying. A fair-haired boy of about seven or eight, who miraculously survived at the bus stop, covering his face with both hands, weeps over his dead mother and repeats: “Mommy, what have they done ...”"


                Does this description (from a very neutral Wiki) help separate personal perception from history? Or the number of civilians in Leningrad who died during the blockade (more than 600 people), sets in a conciliatory spirit?

                PS You are absolutely right in asserting that Mannerheim not traitor. That's right - he is an ENEMY, like Hitler, one difference is that he managed to get off in time.
                1. Приговор
                  Приговор 18 June 2016 00: 33
                  +3
                  I absolutely agree with you. My grandfather, a lieutenant of artillery reconnaissance, who returned from the Finnish war with a medal "For Courage", managed to tell me a lot about what the Finns were doing. Believe me, they were just as fascists as the Germans. If not worse.
        2. kenig1
          kenig1 17 June 2016 06: 24
          +4
          Comparing Mannerheim and Vlasov is stupid.
        3. Teberii
          Teberii 17 June 2016 06: 24
          +1
          Monnerheim is a fin and a beacon, by definition, cannot be.
          1. Ruslan67
            Ruslan67 17 June 2016 06: 29
            +5
            Quote: Teberii
            Monnerheim is a fin and a beacon, by definition, cannot be.

            There was an empire — served it. Collapsed — served Finland. But people don’t understand. request
            1. andj61
              andj61 17 June 2016 08: 51
              +2
              Quote: Ruslan67
              Quote: Teberii
              Monnerheim is a fin and a beacon, by definition, cannot be.

              There was an empire — served it. Collapsed — served Finland. But people don’t understand. request

              Mannerheim is a Swede born in Finland.
              After the collapse of the empire, he fought in Finland against the Reds and was a supporter of the restoration of the empire. But the Finns themselves opposed this - they wanted independence.
          2. V.ic
            V.ic 17 June 2016 10: 22
            +1
            Quote: Teberii
            Monnerheim fin

            Enough de Beale to portray! Karl Gustav Mannerheim was an ethnic Swede!
        4. Monarchist
          Monarchist 17 June 2016 09: 32
          +3
          If he is a lieutenant general, that means Vlasov’s equal
      4. Humpty
        Humpty 17 June 2016 06: 29
        +6
        Quote: Ruslan67
        Quote: Humpty
        shouting "Shame!".

        After all, he is not only a Finnish field marshal but also a lieutenant general of the Russian army With undeniable merits to Russia So what kind of buoy?

        I understood that you were from St. Petersburg, but just in case, I looked in and became convinced of the correct direction of jut. Yes, you will know something about which a thought might flash somewhere in my head. The victims of the siege of Leningrad rest not only in numerous mass graves in St. Petersburg and around, but also on the expanses of the entire former country in unknown graves, where people without a siege had nothing, but they gave the last to the front, including the siege of Leningrad, and also without food were dying.

        The board is set to the executioner of our people, not fictitious, but the real one. Who escaped the gallows.
        Vlasov, too, was serving the Red Army. And Rezun at one time in the security service.
        1. Ruslan67
          Ruslan67 17 June 2016 06: 35
          +2
          Quote: Humpty
          The board is set to the executioner of our people,

          Kolchak drank krovushki no less Forget about all the merits including polar expeditions?
          Quote: Humpty
          Vlasov, too, was the cause of the Red Army served.

          And became a traitor during the war I understood yes Are you one of those who believe that Savchenko should be fed for 22 years in Russia and let our people sit there
          King of Romania Mihai awarded the Order of Victory Romania fought with us We take away?
          1. Beefeater
            Beefeater 17 June 2016 08: 02
            +2
            Quote: Ruslan67
            Quote: Humpty
            The board is set to the executioner of our people,

            Kolchak drank krovushki no less Forget about all the merits including polar expeditions?
            Quote: Humpty
            Vlasov, too, was the cause of the Red Army served.

            And became a traitor during the war I understood yes Are you one of those who believe that Savchenko should be fed for 22 years in Russia and let our people sit there
            King of Romania Mihai awarded the Order of Victory Romania fought with us We take away?

            Too late. The order of Mihai was long ago taken away by the Romanian comrades. Moreover, a valuable artifact 10 years ago surfaced at one of the auctions. Someone from the Communists who pocketed him decided to make some money.
          2. Monarchist
            Monarchist 17 June 2016 09: 39
            0
            An interesting question is that until 1944 the Romanian troops fired only at the shooting range, and Stalin awarded Mihai with this order of Victory, perhaps from a hangover?
          3. V.ic
            V.ic 17 June 2016 10: 25
            +1
            Quote: Ruslan67
            King of Romania Mihai awarded the Order of Victory Romania fought with us We take away?

            Try, only to take away from someone? The order was sold.
            1. Ruslan67
              Ruslan67 17 June 2016 18: 39
              +2
              Quote: V.ic
              The order was sold.

              The status of the awarded does not cancel
        2. Alexander Romanov
          Alexander Romanov 17 June 2016 06: 36
          +2
          Quote: Humpty
          Which escaped the gallows.
          Vlasov, too, was the cause of the Red Army served.

          How many such similar stories there have been in Russia lately, it always caused a heated debate. As a result, those who either did not know the story well or compared the incomparable lost. As you, for example hi
          1. Humpty
            Humpty 17 June 2016 07: 00
            +6
            Quote: Alexander Romanov
            How many such similar stories in recent times have been in Russia, always this has caused a heated debate


            The fact that Manerheim was very popular among St. Petersburg young ladies and the fact that he walked somewhere near the paths of Przhevalsky, etc. Does not change his actions later in life. hi
        3. AlexSK
          AlexSK 17 June 2016 16: 15
          +3
          For me, Mannerheim is definitely an enemy and anti-Soviet, which means Russophobe. Under his direct command, Leningrad was blocked from the north, where hundreds of thousands of citizens died. Also, under his command, concentration camps were created in occupied Karelia, where the Slavic population was driven and killed. I have one of my great-grandfathers after concussion ended up in the end. A camp in Finland, Mikkeli district where he was tortured. And now this figure is hung up with this figure. This is blasphemy against the dead.
      5. Zoldat_A
        Zoldat_A 17 June 2016 06: 29
        +14
        Quote: Ruslan67
        Quote: Humpty
        shouting "Shame!".

        After all, he is not only a Finnish field marshal but also a lieutenant general of the Russian army With undeniable merits to Russia So what kind of buoy?

        If you talk like that, then Vlasov will have to erect a monument - he was also a "Stalin's falcon" until he surrendered ... One betrayal can cross out any heroic life! He swore in the royal army to whom? Faith, the king and Fatherland. Nobody took away his faith, the tsar himself threw the country to the mercy of the liberals, signing the Renunciation Manifesto, but the Fatherland, though not his own, but to which he swore, did not go away. By the way many white generals, having fled to Paris, refused to cooperate with the Germans - red, green, white, gray-brown-raspberry - but she is RUSSIA, Motherland, Fatherland.

        And Mannerheim violated the Oath, fighting with the Germans against Russia and in this case, he has no merits to Russia!.

        I apologize for the supported offtopic, but the question is really important ... hi.

        Z.Y. For me, as a person who gave the army and the Motherland twenty-odd better years of life, an individual who does not violate the Oath does not exist as a human being ...
        1. Ruslan67
          Ruslan67 17 June 2016 06: 42
          +1
          Quote: Zoldat_A
          Nobody took away his faith, the tsar himself threw the country to the mercy of the liberals, signing the Renunciation Manifesto

          yes
          Quote: Zoldat_A
          but the Fatherland, albeit not native, but to which he swore, did not go away.

          Russian Empire-RSFSR It seems as though I want to poop
          Quote: Zoldat_A
          And Mannerheim violated the Oath, fighting with the Germans against Russia

          Given upon assuming office of the head of Finland? Mother!!!!
          1. Zoldat_A
            Zoldat_A 17 June 2016 06: 57
            +9
            Quote: Ruslan67
            Quote: Zoldat_A
            And Mannerheim violated the Oath, fighting with the Germans against Russia

            Given upon assuming office of the head of Finland? Mother!!!!

            "Given upon taking office" of an officer of the army of the Russian Empire. Or is there a need to remind someone that OWN ONE TIME? At least they taught me that. And I swore ONCE. USSR, RF - it doesn’t matter. Homeland. Maybe in my life I was lucky that I was not a Finn in the army of the Russian Empire or an Uzbek in the Soviet Army - I did not have to be born in one country in my life, but live in another. I don’t know, honestly, what I would have done if my Homeland had suddenly run away from me. But he lived his life the way he did and what the Oath is - he learned it firmly.
            1. Ruslan67
              Ruslan67 17 June 2016 07: 02
              +1
              Quote: Zoldat_A
              "Given upon taking office" of an officer of the army of the Russian Empire.

              crying The empire grunted and neither he nor Kolchak with Denikin and Wrangel and Slashchev ruined it
              Quote: Zoldat_A
              , I’m lucky in life that I didn’t turn out to be a Finn in the army of the Russian Empire or an Uzbek in the Soviet Army -

              So rejoice
              Quote: Zoldat_A
              And I swore ONCE. USSR, RF - it doesn’t matter. Homeland.

              His homeland broke away from Russia request Offer her not to serve and not swear?
              1. V.ic
                V.ic 17 June 2016 10: 28
                +8
                Quote: Ruslan67
                His homeland broke away from Russia

                You and your kind are always guilty of the Motherland ... But never yourself ...
            2. Beefeater
              Beefeater 17 June 2016 08: 15
              -4
              Explain to me that if you took the oath of the USSR and remain faithful to it, now you can be considered an oath to Ukraine and Georgia, for example. After all, the oath is taken once. In the political sense, Ukraine and Georgia are just like the successors of the former USSR in the political sense.
              1. V.ic
                V.ic 17 June 2016 13: 26
                +7
                Quote: Beefeater
                In the political sense, Ukraine and Georgia are just like the successors of the former USSR in the political sense.

                Smart are you ours, Ukraine and Georgia paid the West / l / y debts from the USSR? Or did the Russian Federation do it alone?
            3. igorka357
              igorka357 17 June 2016 08: 34
              -3
              Eka how he leveled off a, USSR-RF-Motherland, that’s precisely what you did not have the opportunity, like the Ukrainians, to choose between your Homeland and the state you swore, so there’s nothing to lead an empty conversation!
        2. Beefeater
          Beefeater 17 June 2016 08: 08
          -3
          Mannerheim did not swear allegiance to the Soviet Union. Therefore, he could not break anything.
          And he did not sign petitions like Ruzsky, Alekseev and K, demanding renunciation.
          But by his abdication, Nicholas freed his subjects from all obligations.
          1. Robin_bad
            Robin_bad 17 June 2016 10: 14
            +9
            Well, in principle, it means everything is OK and there are no moral obligations to 1,4 million Leningraders who died of starvation.
            Mannerheim was not a traitor, so he needs to erect not only a memorial plaque, but a monument near the Kremlin wall.
          2. vladfill
            vladfill 17 June 2016 10: 42
            +10
            On August 1, 1941, the Finns reached the old Soviet-Finnish border near Leningrad, thereby closing the half-ring of the city’s blockade from the north. The blockade of Leningrad and the starvation of almost a million residents of the city became possible because the Finns closed their half of the ring.
            It was not an accident. Mannerheim did not conceal that the existence of Finland as an independent state depended on relations with the Germans; he was friends with the Third Reich not for fear, but for conscience.
        3. 97110
          97110 17 June 2016 08: 54
          +8
          Quote: Zoldat_A
          And Mannerheim violated the Oath, fighting with the Germans against Russia

          Not a specialist in legal intricacies, not sure if he violated. But in Leningrad to perpetuate the memory of one of the perpetrators of the blockade? Those who advocate the possibility of this deed are poor with an understanding of the memory of the dead Leningraders. You gentlemen are as civilized as the Americans in Hiroshima and Songmi. There must be in man a protective device against cannibalism, the killing of the defenseless. To starve Leningraders into a siege is a worthy occasion to establish a memorial sign in LENNGRAD.
          1. Ruslan67
            Ruslan67 17 June 2016 18: 00
            +1
            Quote: 97110
            - a worthy occasion for the establishment of a memorial sign in LENNGRAD.

            In St. Petersburg request Head not included?
            1. kotvov
              kotvov 17 June 2016 18: 58
              +2
              Head not given to turn on ?,
              you can see included as it should, on his conscience, allied relations with Nazi Germany, and several million of our soldiers and civilians.
        4. Mikhail Matyugin
          Mikhail Matyugin 17 June 2016 11: 16
          0
          Quote: Zoldat_A
          ! He swore in the royal army to whom? Faith, Tsar and Fatherland. Nobody took away his faith, the tsar himself threw the country to the mercy of the liberals, signing the Renunciation Manifesto, but the Fatherland, though not his own, but to which he swore, did not go away. By the way, many white generals, having fled to Paris, refused to cooperate with the Germans - red, green, white, gray-brown-raspberry - but she is RUSSIA, Motherland, Fatherland.

          Oh, delirium. Well, firstly, many just collaborated, some adhered to neutrality, supported - in one form or another - the USSR literally a few.

          Secondly, Mannerheim did not commit any oath violation. He was an officer of the Russian Empire, this state fell apart. He became the head of Finland. But Vlasov — he was fully grown up in the USSR, he owed everything to the Communists, and in the midst of the war he sided with the enemy. A completely different case.
        5. Parsec
          Parsec 17 June 2016 11: 53
          +1
          Quote: Zoldat_A
          He swore in the royal army to whom? Faith, Tsar and Fatherland.


          They personally swore allegiance to the emperor.

          I, below, promise and swear by Almighty God, before His Holy Gospel, that I want and owe His Imperial Majesty the Autocrat.

          All-Russian and His Imperial Majesty the All-Russian Throne, it is faithful and not hypocritical to serve, not sparing his belly, to the last drop of blood and all the powers and powers that belong to His Imperial Highness the Autocracy, legitimate and legitimized, henceforth legalized, by extreme understanding, strength and possibilities to fulfill.

          His Imperial Majesty the state and lands of his enemies, body and blood, in the field and fortresses, by water and by dry means, in battles, parties, sieges and assaults and in other military cases, brave and strong to mend resistance and try to make progress in everything that is to His Imperial In any case, the service and benefit of the state may concern Majesty.

          As soon as I tell you about the damage of His Imperial Majesty’s interest, harm and loss, I’ll not declare it in good time, but with all sorts of measures I will repel and prevent slipping and I will keep all entrusted secrecy, it will relate to the good and service of the state, properly repairing obedience and, in all conscience, correcting and for its own gain, property and friendship and hostility against service and oath not to come from the team and banner, where I belong, although in the field, wagon train or gar nizone, never go away, but I will follow him while I’m alive and I will behave this way and act like an honest, loyal, obedient, brave and quick officer (soldier). In what may the Lord God Almighty help me.


          This is the text of the oath of the times of Nicholas II.
          And not a word about the Fatherland.
          1. V.ic
            V.ic 17 June 2016 15: 10
            0
            Quote: Parsec
            This is the text of the oath of the times of Nicholas II.
            And not a word about the Fatherland.

            And how many new things have you discovered? Do you remember the phrase from the "sun king": "The state is I". He is a monarch that in Russia, that in France = monos archontos / single // the only leader.
      6. vladfill
        vladfill 17 June 2016 06: 34
        +9
        Co-author with Hitler of the blockade of Leningrad. Mannerheim was an outspoken fascist and had the same gang of associates, Shyutskorovites, as is common among all Fuhrer. He openly sympathized with Hitler and was brought to the Nuremberg Tribunal not without reason.
        1. Beefeater
          Beefeater 17 June 2016 08: 20
          -1
          Quote: vladfill
          Co-author with Hitler of the blockade of Leningrad. Mannerheim was an outspoken fascist and had the same gang of associates, Shyutskorovites, as is common among all Fuhrer. He openly sympathized with Hitler and was brought to the Nuremberg Tribunal not without reason.

          Are you normal
          Shyutskor is Finnish OSOVIAHIM.
          Mannerheim has never been under any tribunal. For a long time, he remained the leader of his country, repeatedly went abroad, he had no problems.
        2. igorka357
          igorka357 17 June 2016 08: 35
          -1
          What kind of lunge ..))?
        3. andj61
          andj61 17 June 2016 08: 56
          +2
          Quote: vladfill
          He openly sympathized with Hitler and was brought to the Nuremberg Tribunal not without reason.

          And here in more detail, please. Unlike many Finnish politicians recognized as war criminals, Mannerheim escaped criminal prosecution. Nobody recognized him as a criminal. And Stalin signed agreements with him, as with the head of state.
          1. vladfill
            vladfill 17 June 2016 11: 50
            +2
            Yes, yes, there is a legend that Stalin personally deleted Mannerheim from the list.
            war criminals pending trial in Nuremberg.
        4. kenig1
          kenig1 17 June 2016 09: 22
          +3
          Mannerheim involved in the Nuremberg process, the exam makes itself felt?
          1. Beefeater
            Beefeater 17 June 2016 23: 16
            +1
            Was Mannerheim sitting in the dock next to Goering? Only no one saw him there
      7. theadenter
        theadenter 17 June 2016 07: 09
        +2
        Everything seems to be bad with the story. I do not know who he is or what he is famous for.
        But I will not shout "shame" without knowing anything about the person.
      8. ISSIDOR
        ISSIDOR 17 June 2016 07: 17
        +2
        If he collaborated with Hitler, then he is an enemy.
        1. Ruslan67
          Ruslan67 17 June 2016 07: 20
          +2
          Quote: ISSIDOR
          If he collaborated with Hitler, then he is an enemy.

          Enchantingly good Comrade Stalin Molotov and so on to the wall as enemies of the people am Reptiles also supplied raw materials. angry
          1. Darkness
            Darkness 17 June 2016 07: 48
            +2
            Why confuse warm with soft?
            Or are you also for the Nazis, just defend them?
        2. Beefeater
          Beefeater 17 June 2016 08: 32
          .
          Quote: ISSIDOR
          If he collaborated with Hitler, then he is an enemy.

          And why did we climb to him at 39? Was there a little land?
          So they themselves pushed the Finns into the arms of the Nazis.
          By the way, Kuusinen Street, the chairman of the government of the Finnish Democratic Republic of 39'year model, still exists quietly in Moscow. The aforementioned Kuusinen was not noticed in anything else.
          Pouring bombs on Helsinki, in the 39th what was they counting on?
          I will say that.
          ... But we still get to the Ganges
          But we still fall in battles
          To from India to England
          My Motherland Shone ....
          Pavel Kogan. He fell in battle. But alas, not in England and not in India. And somewhere in the open spaces of New Russia, leaving the environment.
        3. igorka357
          igorka357 17 June 2016 08: 36
          0
          Well, he worked with Hitler and the USSR!
      9. Darkness
        Darkness 17 June 2016 07: 44
        +4
        He is a traitor and an enemy.
        1. andj61
          andj61 17 June 2016 09: 02
          +1
          Quote: Darkness
          He is a traitor and an enemy.

          He was an enemy, I don’t argue. But a traitor - no!
          It is impossible to break the oath to the emperor, who has already recanted. You cannot betray that country that at that time did not exist.
          But even the leaders of the Soviet state after 19.09.1944/XNUMX/XNUMX (signing a truce with Finland) did not consider it shameful to deal with him. And he is not a war criminal - and there were not a few of them even in little Finland.
      10. 97110
        97110 17 June 2016 08: 39
        +1
        Quote: Ruslan67
        So which buchu to raise?

        Indeed, why ... And Vlasov was not a terrible ensign in the Red Army would have had merit. Also, the board must be pinned to the wall. You go to Piskaryovka, to the Museum of the blockade ... Maybe you will catch something. About the merits of the cannibals. Read the diary of Tanya Savicheva. in the original. But is it unlikely genes, blue blood, white bone?
        1. Ruslan67
          Ruslan67 17 June 2016 18: 07
          +2
          Quote: 97110
          . But is it unlikely genes, blue blood, white bone?

          Grandfather in the NKVD in blockade with four children My father was one year old Great-grandfather died at 42 Grandfather's younger sister at the same time: right at the machine tool The first time I was in the Museum of the Leningrad Blockade was in 1974 Sent or will you go?
          1. kotvov
            kotvov 17 June 2016 19: 02
            0
            and my father was one year old Great-grandfather died at 42 grandfather’s younger sister at the same time: right at the bench In the Museum of the Siege of Leningrad the first time was in 1974 Sent or will you go?
            Well then, you can congratulate you, because now you definitely understand and forgive the person whose orders your relatives died.
            1. Ruslan67
              Ruslan67 17 June 2016 19: 20
              +3
              Quote: kotvov
              you now clearly understood and forgave everyone, n

              Where did I write about forgiveness?! Separate the story from the personal one. Before the revolution, my family had only three cows and 20 sheep, they didn’t count small animals on the one side. After the collective farm and workday I should now curse the Communists for the rest of my days?
          2. 97110
            97110 18 June 2016 15: 55
            0
            Quote: Ruslan67
            To send or you will go?

            You yourself understand, or they get up and brainwash? Kerosene. And change the solidol. What are you proud of? They are PEOPLE! And who are you?
      11. andj61
        andj61 17 June 2016 08: 41
        -3
        Quote: Ruslan67
        After all, he is not only a Finnish field marshal but also a lieutenant general of the Russian army With undeniable merits to Russia So what kind of buoy?

        good It is also worth noting that it was Mannerheim who was a supporter of normalization of relations with the USSR, believed that Finland should accept the requirements of the USSR and push the Finnish border from St. Petersburg - it passed along the Sestra River - this is within the boundaries of the current city. As chairman of the Finnish Defense Council, he secured funds for the modernization of the Enkel line on the Karelian Isthmus, which was built in the 20s, and created the defense system in the 4 summer months of 1939, which was called the Mannerheim Line. He was the commander in chief of Finland in the Winter War, he was an adversary, but he fought quite well.
        Even as president of Finland, he never learned Finnish to speak it normally. And he spoke either in Swedish, or, most often, in Russian.
        And on his desktop until his death was a photograph of the last Russian emperor ...
        He was an opponent of the USSR in two wars, and an ally at the end of World War II - the Finns fought against the Germans in the so-called. Lapland war. But he was also a lieutenant general of the empire and successfully fought for Russia. And the plaque is the smallest thing that you can simply honor his memory with.
        1. 97110
          97110 18 June 2016 16: 04
          0
          Quote: andj61
          And the plaque is the smallest thing that you can simply honor his memory with.

          That is, they dealt with the memory of Leningraders. Well, there, cows, goats were exchanged for workdays, you will not forget a century. But mannerheim did not give memory. He did not create collective farms, he only built bunkers with water supply, so that it would be more convenient for your ancestors from water-cooled looms to be in snowdrifts and shot on wire. Or were yours in bunkers? Or your patrons in the sonderkommands did not spare?
      12. V.ic
        V.ic 17 June 2016 10: 07
        +2
        Quote: Ruslan67
        After all, he is not only a Finnish field marshal but also a lieutenant general of the Russian army With undeniable merits to Russia So what kind of buoy?

        Who led Finland in 1941-1945? Tighten your brains, or do you only have to wear a cap?
      13. Karabin
        Karabin 17 June 2016 10: 35
        +5
        Quote: Ruslan67
        After all, he is not only a Finnish field marshal but also a lieutenant general of the Russian army With undeniable merits to Russia

        I understand that in Putin’s environment, almost everyone is malacholny, and instead of solving real problems, they’re doing all kinds of garbage, but people are looking where they are. By your logic:
        Vlasov is not only the commander of the ROA, but also the lieutenant general of the Red Army, the order bearer, one of the saviors of Moscow and even for some time "Stalin's favorite commander."
        Dudayev is not only the head of Ichkeria, but also the major general of the Soviet army, a participant in the hostilities in Afghanistan. Communist and order bearer.
        And let's give them a board. If not in St. Petersburg, then in another city. We honor our former merits to the Fatherland.
        1. Mikhail Matyugin
          Mikhail Matyugin 17 June 2016 14: 17
          0
          Quote: Karabin
          Dudayev is not only the head of Ichkeria, but also the major general of the Soviet army, a participant in the hostilities in Afghanistan. Communist and order bearer.

          By the way, Dudaev is a good example. Before the collapse of the USSR, he was an impeccable officer and worthy commander. And he certainly didn’t even think about the separatism of Chechnya. Just like Mannerheim.
        2. lelikas
          lelikas 17 June 2016 18: 54
          +4
          Quote: Karabin
          And let's give them a board. If not in St. Petersburg, then in another city. We honor our former merits to the Fatherland.

          LOL - Kadyrov’s bridge do not want? Hero of Russia! kapets - no other heroes were found in the whole country.
          And to the opinion of the people - really ** ** - they collected 100000 signatures against - niipet, they wanted to read out the protest at the meeting - they cut off the microphone. The power of the people is stronger than ever.
          And then they hung up the "whole" board and immediately the asshole settled down.
          1. Karabin
            Karabin 18 June 2016 09: 16
            +1
            Quote: lelikas
            LOL - Kadyrov’s bridge do not want?

            I do not want. And a board with mannerheim too.
      14. Reserve officer
        Reserve officer 17 June 2016 13: 35
        +5
        For Humpty.
        Alexander, your comment is really out of place. The whole discussion of forum users went on your topic, and not on the topic of the article. Actually, this is disrespect for the author. If you are so offended by the topic of the Finnish Field Marshal, then it’s more appropriate to write an article on this subject in VO
        And on the topic of the article I want to say - it’s not suitable for the president with the ambitions of the Sultan to hide behind the pilots’s back and invent fables. Otherwise, more and more people will begin to realize that he is an ordinary cheap thing.
      15. excomandante
        excomandante 17 June 2016 14: 06
        +2
        But this is somehow famously ... General Vlasov had undeniable services to the USSR during the battle for Moscow. Is it time to erect a monument? Why is one Hitler mongrel better than another ?!
        1. Ruslan67
          Ruslan67 17 June 2016 18: 17
          +1
          Quote: excomandante
          .. General Vlasov had undeniable services to the USSR during the Battle of Moscow. Is it time to erect a monument? Why is one Hitler mongrel better than another ?!

          Your last name is Prince Myshkin ?! How can you compare the traitor during the war who sided with the enemy and the head of a foreign state, which he became as a result of the collapse of the empire?
        2. ISSIDOR
          ISSIDOR 17 June 2016 23: 04
          0
          Quite dubious merits, he landed in the hospital, commanded the Sandalov army, and Vlasov went to fame.
      16. Cresta999
        Cresta999 17 June 2016 14: 35
        +2
        The logic of some comrades is simply amazing! And if you, or your family died in that very besieged Leningrad, would you still talk about the merits of Manerheim to Russia? !!! Or did Mannerheim not do this? What happened - definitely a spit in the direction of veterans!
      17. Idiot
        Idiot 18 June 2016 16: 55
        +1
        [quote = Ruslan67] After all, he is not only a Finnish field marshal but also a lieutenant general of the Russian army With undeniable merits to Russia So what kind of buoy to raise? [/ quo

        Mannerheim is a war criminal who escaped the bench exclusively because of the geopolitical considerations of the Soviet leadership. He is guilty of unleashing the Finnish War of 1939-1940. and the entry of Finland into the war with the USSR in 1941. The Finnish army was also involved in the death of a million Leningraders during the blockade, as was the German army. The installation of a memorial plaque to Mannerheim, in my opinion, is again a consequence of geopolitical games ... I have no doubt about the adequacy of the leadership of the Russian Federation.
      18. Mavrikiy
        Mavrikiy 22 June 2016 17: 22
        0
        Quote: Ruslan67
        Quote: Humpty
        shouting "Shame!".

        After all, he is not only a Finnish field marshal but also a lieutenant general of the Russian army With undeniable merits to Russia So what kind of buoy?

        If he is a lieutenant general of the Russian army, this does not give undeniable rights. I ask in line. First Comfront, then Komarmia. Tsarist, Soviet. Yes, and the General-Anshef, they say there were such.
        And do not Chukhon mug in front of the Old Man.
        Oh, how you set him up and denounced him. Well, here it is very appropriate Lavrov: "... eat."
    2. Beefeater
      Beefeater 17 June 2016 07: 37
      +1
      Quote: Humpty
      I apologize in advance for being off topic.
      Dear compatriots, are you in good health with the country's leaders? Look at the windows. Maybe a monument is being erected on your street in Vlasov.
      "IN RUSSIA 14:37, June 16, 2016
      Mannerheim memorial plaque opened in St. Petersburg
      Moscow. June 16th. INTERFAX.RU - Head of the Kremlin administration Sergei Ivanov attended a ceremony to erect a memorial plaque to Finnish Field Marshal Karl Mannerheim in St. Petersburg.

      A memorial plaque in honor of Mannerheim was installed on the facade of the building of the Military Academy of Logistics on Zakharyevskaya Street in St. Petersburg. "

      "The street before the opening was deliberately blocked off, as Fontanka points out, which did not save the ceremony from protesters shouting" Shame! "

      In our country there are a very large number of people completely unaware of the history of their homeland
      The road of life that saved Leningrad from final extinction existed solely and exclusively thanks to Mannerheim. It was the Finnish general who did not let Hitler finally close the ring. So the company of protesters could find the best application for their vocal abilities, for example on the Kadyrov’s bridge, it is not clear which side was drawn in St. Petersburg.
      1. Darkness
        Darkness 17 June 2016 07: 50
        +4
        Are you also for the Nazis?
    3. Darkness
      Darkness 17 June 2016 07: 59
      +5
      And what else did you want from the leadership of the country, which made de-Stalinization, de-communization a priority.
      The path of Ukraine is shining for us
    4. volot-voin
      volot-voin 17 June 2016 09: 25
      -7
      Quote: Humpty
      A memorial plaque in honor of Mannerheim was installed on the facade of the building of the Military Academy of Logistics on Zakharyevskaya Street in St. Petersburg. "

      Mannerheim is part of the story. Tsarist officer, Finnish politician and officer. God be his judge. Fate made him what he was. (of course there was a way to shoot himself or fight for the Reds, which would also be a betrayal on his part). The board is not a monument, and comparisons with the traitor Vlasov are inappropriate.
      Mannerheim, by the way, stopped the FA advance on the borders of Finland in that time, due to which the blockade was not completely closed.
      Why don’t the protesters, for example, shout at Kadyrov’s bridge.
    5. The comment was deleted.
    6. siberalt
      siberalt 17 June 2016 09: 56
      +1
      Strange somehow! The admin posted an article about Erdogan and Turkey in the present, and discuss Mannerheim and Finland in the past. Kaya connection? request
    7. V.ic
      V.ic 17 June 2016 10: 04
      +1
      Quote: Humpty
      ceremony from protesters shouting "Shame!"

      Shame on those who minus you!
    8. Altona
      Altona 17 June 2016 11: 13
      +3
      Quote: Humpty
      I apologize in advance for being off topic.
      Dear compatriots,

      ---------------------
      I would write my comment lower, I would not pick up the minuses. You have to be more modest, and even with the offtopic. Although it is essentially true, erecting monuments to the fascist dictators of the 30s is somehow completely uncommon. But our leadership has embarked on a course of de-Sovietization, whitewashing all kinds of Reds, skins, Kolchaks, Mannerheims. And this is far from "the crunch of a French roll and the shine of aiguillettes and epaulettes." In this sense, we are moving like Ukraine and Bandera. “We are reconciled with the past,” that is, we agree that we did the wrong thing with the former world eaters. It was not necessary to build the USSR, but it was necessary to wait for favors from the tsar and the upper classes.

      About Erdogan and Turkey. Yesterday I looked at Life on empty hotels, swimming pools overgrown with algae, empty souvenir shops, leather and fur clothing markets, and fruit and vegetable markets. I sympathize with ordinary people that their government does not think about them at all. But this is a fair payment for such an offense.
    9. Razvedka_Boem
      Razvedka_Boem 18 June 2016 07: 28
      +1
      It would be better if Lavrenty Pavlovich was erected a monument.
    10. kukan913
      kukan913 20 June 2016 15: 26
      0
      I wrote that the Tsar is with us d ....., and does not see what is happening in his destinies, or he is somehow deceived sophisticatedly that he is not aware of who steers in the country and when the message was published the word d ..... was carefully removed
  2. Shiva83483
    Shiva83483 17 June 2016 06: 04
    -2
    His darkening GDP is the best ... and like "sultanchik" and so it has a relationship between countries, at the proper level ... or what I misunderstand comrades?
    1. Altona
      Altona 17 June 2016 16: 38
      +1
      Quote: Shiva83483
      His darkening GDP is the best ... and like "sultanchik" and so it has a relationship between countries, at the proper level ... or what I misunderstand comrades?

      ---------------------
      You are somehow quite loyally expressed. The President makes his statements on the basis of analytical notes by the Ministry of Foreign Affairs, Foreign Intelligence, the Ministry of Defense and the FSB. That is the huge work of several hundred people. By the way, Stalin did not have such an analytical apparatus; he had to analyze all the facts himself.
  3. Marwel-f
    Marwel-f 17 June 2016 06: 15
    +3
    Edorgan behaves like a naughty puppy, seemingly wagging his tail, but continues to sit under the sofa and heap heap heaped in the corridor does not consider him a jamb. Kindergarten pants with straps.
    1. Zoldat_A
      Zoldat_A 17 June 2016 06: 46
      +4
      Quote: Marwel-f
      Edorgan behaves like a naughty puppy, seemingly wagging his tail, but continues to sit under the sofa and heap heap heaped in the corridor does not consider him a jamb. Kindergarten pants with straps.

      “Dear Mr. President! On behalf of the entire Turkish people, on your behalf I congratulate all Russians on Russia's Day
      I personally wish him a Happy Russian Day - like a Happy New Year from Patrice Lumumba! I realized, the rat, that threw him in America, and, like, nothing happened? He, naive, hoped that we would answer for a dozen Turks, and did the Americans intercede for him and send missiles to Moscow? Let him deliver his tomatoes to Nuyurk, hryakova girlfriend ...
  4. igorka357
    igorka357 17 June 2016 06: 17
    0
    Lick stronger respected Tureks, maybe something will burn out!
  5. qwert111
    qwert111 17 June 2016 06: 25
    +2
    "Recently, V.V. Putin received a letter. From R. T. Erdogan. The Turkish President congratulated the Russian leader on the Day of Russia and wished that relations between Russia and Turkey reached" the deserved level. "

    It is possible in a computer game like this, passed one level, earned a new one. I didn’t succeed, and to hell with it, I’ll try again for an infinitely long time. And here it won’t work out, it’s life and in this life our plane was shot down and our people died.
    1. Reptiloid
      Reptiloid 17 June 2016 06: 39
      +1
      So these relations have reached a well-deserved level ---- the Turks have been sent away, sanctions have been announced to Turkey.
      What more do they want?
  6. rotmistr60
    rotmistr60 17 June 2016 06: 30
    +2
    so that relations between Russia and Turkey reach a “well-deserved level”

    Relations between countries are very easy to spoil due to the stupidity of the leadership of one of the countries, but it is very difficult to restore them later. Especially when the person who ruined the relationship does not feel guilty, and even takes pride in his deeds. Erdogan writes the GDP letter with one hand, and with the other calls on NATO to create a maritime force in the Black Sea. So where is the truth and truth in the actions of this arrogant man?
  7. VSZMK
    VSZMK 17 June 2016 06: 30
    0
    Ankara will not have less problems in the western direction, and there are not only geopolitical contradictions of the present, the complexity of the Kurdish, Cypriot and other problems, migration leapfrog, but also historical reasons. In moments when European political men are taking a sharp shot at Erdogan’s political course, the main argument continues to be the issue of repressed freedoms not only of minorities, but also of the rest of the country's citizens.
  8. theadenter
    theadenter 17 June 2016 07: 11
    0
    Turkey was burned in relations with the West, and destroyed relations with Russia.
    It’s clear that the woeful president is trying to smooth out relations with at least someone.
  9. parusnik
    parusnik 17 June 2016 07: 27
    +5
    “Dear Mr. President! On behalf of the entire Turkish people, on your behalf I congratulate all Russians on the Day of Russia, and also wish that in the coming time relations between Russia and Turkey will reach a well-deserved level. I don’t have a father or a mother, only you have stayed with me alone. And yesterday I was dragged. Obama dragged me by the hair into the yard and combed me with a scandal for the fact that I rocked their child in a cradle and, by chance, fell asleep. And last week, Merkel told me to clean the herring, and I started from the tail, and she took the herring and with her face began to poke me in a mug. Europe mocked me, sent to a tavern for vodka and ordered to steal cucumbers from the owners, and the owner beats than he gets. And there is no food. In the morning they give bread, in the afternoon porridge and in the evening also bread, but for tea or cabbage, the owners themselves crack. And they told me to sleep in the hallway, and when their child cries, I do not sleep at all, but shake the cradle. Dear Vladimir Vladimirovich, please do God’s mercy, forgive me, there is no way for me ... to endure I bow to you at the feet and I will always pray to God, forgive me, otherwise I will die ... ”
    1. Mikhail Matyugin
      Mikhail Matyugin 17 June 2016 11: 19
      +1
      Quote: parusnik
      And last week, Merkel told me to clean the herring, and I started from the tail, and she took the herring and with her face began to poke me in a mug. Europe mocked me, sent to a tavern for vodka and ordered to steal cucumbers from the owners, and the owner beats than he gets.
      APPLAUSE STANDING! fellow

      Quote: parusnik
      Dear Vladimir Vladimirovich, do grace of God, forgive me, there is no my opportunity.
      Apparently the attacks from the Kurds, carried out with a frequency of once a month, coupled with the supply of new weapons, well ... I don’t know from whom, but to the same Kurds, they brought the relationship to a new spiral.
  10. azer
    azer 17 June 2016 07: 27
    +3
    It smelled of fried Turkish tomatoes))))
  11. Filxnumx
    Filxnumx 17 June 2016 08: 00
    +1
    Quote: Mavrikiy
    Quote: Ruslan67
    Quote: Humpty
    shouting "Shame!".

    After all, he is not only a Finnish field marshal but also a lieutenant general of the Russian army With undeniable merits to Russia So what kind of buoy?

    Vlasov is not only a traitor, but also a lieutenant general, with merits. Worthy of the monument according to your logic.

    With merits in what? What twice came out of the environment with a nurse? Or the fact that near Moscow it was successfully noted during the counterattack and was noticed by SAMIM?
    1. Mikhail Matyugin
      Mikhail Matyugin 17 June 2016 11: 22
      0
      Quote: Fil743
      With merits in what? What twice came out of the environment with a nurse? Or the fact that near Moscow it was successfully noted during the counterattack and was noticed by SAMIM?
      You are clearly poorly acquainted with the biography of this explicit Stalinist favorite - read about his actions in China, and about the training of troops under his command in the pre-war period. The USSR was tortured to extort his name from documents, there were too many of them (by the way, the only country that did this).
    2. 97110
      97110 18 June 2016 16: 15
      0
      Quote: Fil743
      With merits in what?

      But in combat and political training. He didn’t receive for adventures with his general’s sister, but for successes in reports on the successes of personnel.
  12. Skalpel
    Skalpel 17 June 2016 08: 50
    0
    This sultan's writing does not mean anything. Everything is correct. This message is intended to create only the appearance of a desire to establish some kind of relationship. To show my "subjects" - "I offered them, but they, so and so, do not want to ... That is why ... But they are bad, not me .." And to my "mattress friends" to make it clear that, like how adequate and can still be dealt with.
  13. Beefeater
    Beefeater 17 June 2016 08: 56
    -3
    Quote: Fil743
    Quote: Mavrikiy
    Quote: Ruslan67
    Quote: Humpty
    shouting "Shame!".

    After all, he is not only a Finnish field marshal but also a lieutenant general of the Russian army With undeniable merits to Russia So what kind of buoy?

    Vlasov is not only a traitor, but also a lieutenant general, with merits. Worthy of the monument according to your logic.

    With merits in what? What twice came out of the environment with a nurse? Or the fact that near Moscow it was successfully noted during the counterattack and was noticed by SAMIM?

    He also brought his case out of the Kiev boiler.
    Let me remind you there were two boilers Vyazemsky and Kiev. About a million soldiers each. Nobody coasted then and counted no victims. The incredible level of suffering of a soldier abandoned by commanders and commissars, without bread and ammunition, without communications and medical assistance, made a tragic scrapping in Vlasov’s soul.
    But interestingly, Vlasov never fought with the Red Army. He fought with the Germans in the 45th in Prague.
    When the Czechs, in order to at least somehow justify themselves to the world for their many years of cooperation with the Germans, finally managed to raise an uprising that was no longer needed.
    1. Kenneth
      Kenneth 17 June 2016 09: 15
      +1
      The Vlasov units fought with the Red Army and were even noted by Himler in his diary. Vlasov did not drive his body out of the Kiev boiler. In general, do not read your knowledge of those wikis.
      1. Beefeater
        Beefeater 17 June 2016 23: 33
        0
        Quote: Kenneth
        The Vlasov units fought with the Red Army and were even noted by Himler in his diary. Vlasov did not drive his body out of the Kiev boiler. In general, do not read your knowledge of those wikis.

        The Vlasov units of the ROA did not fight with the Red Army.
        You confuse ROA and national legions, Cossack squadrons, police battalions.
        ROA Vlasova had nothing to do with them.
        The Vlasov army was formed only at the end of the 44th.

        Vlasov correctly removed his corps from the environment. How would you not like to consider otherwise. He fought well and near Moscow. It was noticed by Stalin. Do you want to say that Stalin set the i-Diot to steer? Be consistent in your preferences.
    2. 97110
      97110 18 June 2016 16: 19
      0
      Quote: Beefeater
      But interestingly, Vlasov never fought with the Red Army.

      And the Bulgarians did not fight either. Or did they fight a little? Like the Vlasovites? Or we will erect a monument to the Bulgarian Tsar on Piskaryovka, and in his face to all those who have not fought ... And then there are those who have not returned, and who have nervous breakdowns and German shoulder straps, but under the Russian tricolor ... We need to erect a monument. Moreover, the bridge was named ...
  14. novel66
    novel66 17 June 2016 09: 06
    +1
    Erdogan may well take part in normalizing relations - when the Turkish ambassador crawls on his knees to the gdp with an apology, he should hold in his hands a dish with the head of an Erdogan lined with tomatoes, maybe it’ll
  15. Kenneth
    Kenneth 17 June 2016 09: 08
    -6
    I suggest thinking about the following topic. Tribes bordering Turkey in Syria are ethnically related to Turks and are perceived by us as residents of Donbass

    Then Assad was like Poroshenko for us and the attempts to bomb these territories with our planes were perceived as if the Americans bombed Donetsk.
    That is, the situation is somewhat more complicated than it seems. Erdlgan cannot apologize no matter how much he dreams about it. But perhaps soon there will be a switchman who will write off the incident. In general, Turkey is of course an enemy and a rival, but a very profitable partner.
    1. Mikhail Matyugin
      Mikhail Matyugin 17 June 2016 14: 20
      0
      Quote: Kenneth
      In general, Turkey is of course an enemy and a rival, but a very profitable partner.

      Profitable for yourself, you mean?
      I would prefer to deal with the Greeks, Cypriots, Armenians and Bulgarians, but not with the Turks.
      1. Kenneth
        Kenneth 17 June 2016 21: 23
        0
        Due to the extremely favorable location of the Turks from cooperation with her, our gas station can make a fair profit. And your little list of beggars and traitors only pull money from our budget. Although cooperation is of course necessary with everyone, but for Russia to be profitable.
      2. 97110
        97110 18 June 2016 16: 27
        0
        Quote: Mikhail Matyugin
        I would prefer to deal with the Greeks, Cypriots, Armenians and Bulgarians, but not with the Turks.

        That's what all of the above can give such a thing, which does not grow in Russia? Should we prefer ours? Since the maxim allowed? Well then with the Bulgarians - the Finns are similar to the ROA? Some Leningrad saved from the blockade - just read. Others never fought with the Red Army, only with the Serbs. Is it really more merit than the natural inhabitants of the Don, Kuban and other places in Russia? It is necessary to use the mercies of great America, while they give.
  16. Bulrumeb
    Bulrumeb 17 June 2016 10: 10
    +1
    expressed hope that the two states would achieve the level necessary "for the common interests of our peoples."

    And in response to him a parcel
  17. Romario
    Romario 17 June 2016 10: 25
    +2
    Honestly, I don’t understand who needs a hypocritical apology. Surrendered to Putin and us these apologies before the complete change of Turkish power! Let the new one apologize for Erdogan Pasha and the company after the trial on them. Having shot down the SU-24, the Turks actually said that we were friends with the terrorists and support them. Dropping masks, putting them back on makes no sense.
  18. svp67
    svp67 17 June 2016 10: 27
    +1
    The other day, Vladimir Putin received a letter. From R.T. Erdogan. The Turkish President congratulated the Russian leader on the Day of Russia and wished the relations of Russia and Turkey to reach a “deserved level”. At the same time, Turkish Prime Minister B. Yildirim sent a letter to his Russian counterpart D. Medvedev, where he also expressed hope that the two states would achieve the level necessary "for the common interests of our peoples."
    "The cat knows whose lard she ate ..."
  19. Taygerus
    Taygerus 17 June 2016 11: 15
    0
    well, what a well-deserved level, their level, sorry at the bucket
  20. Torins
    Torins 17 June 2016 11: 49
    0
    In order to perform strong deeds, strong will and steel eggs are needed. Erdogan behaves like a proud but cowardly rat.
    1. tracer
      tracer 17 June 2016 23: 23
      0
      I think you have encountered the behavior of "some nationalities". So this is their national trait. Why are you surprised? To bite like a dog from the back, to stick a knife in the back, they are heroes ... And when you look into someone like that and he realizes that everything is a merchant to him .. That's where friendship and love and fraternization begins, and much more, including dance " if you want belly. "
  21. certero
    certero 17 June 2016 12: 17
    0
    Restoring relations with Turkey is necessary. How to arrange this - our diplomats should think.
    Erdogan imagines himself a sultan - well, so in the countries of the former Union, every second thinks of himself. See all Asian countries.
    As for the monument, it is not necessary to begin with Mannerheim. It would be better then to put Yudenich - one of the most successful military commanders of the Russian Army in the WWI. At the same time, a hint of Turkey :)
  22. Mikhail Matyugin
    Mikhail Matyugin 17 June 2016 14: 25
    0
    Quote: certero
    As for the monument, it is not necessary to begin with Mannerheim. It would be better then to put Yudenich - one of the most successful military commanders of the Russian Army in the WWI. At the same time, a hint of Turkey :)

    Cool like that! The requirement from the Russian Federation to Turkey is to erect huge stella of victory in honor of the Russian army and Yudenich in Ankara and Baghdad, points where it was planned to go into the First World War. laughing
  23. cergey51046
    cergey51046 17 June 2016 16: 13
    0
    If I were the president, this level would be even lower. I wouldn’t have any relations with enemies.
  24. dchegrinec
    dchegrinec 17 June 2016 16: 44
    +2
    A strange thing: the plane was shot down openly, arrogantly, and by the whole world, and when it came time to answer, they immediately wanted to quietly and free of charge return the connection. Let's just as loud the whole world and admit the mistake .... no one canceled the boomerang.
  25. Mentat
    Mentat 17 June 2016 17: 36
    +1
    Quote: Ruslan67
    Quote: Humpty
    shouting "Shame!".

    After all, he is not only a Finnish field marshal but also a lieutenant general of the Russian army With undeniable merits to Russia So what kind of buoy?

    Look at the avatar of the character.
    For clarity:
    1. Humpty
      Humpty 17 June 2016 19: 44
      +1
      Quote: Mentat
      Look at the avatar of the character.



      Not noticed by me, but paranoia is not a good sign.

      And before Oleg Chuvakin it was inconvenient, he ruined the discussion of the topic of the article.
  26. kotvov
    kotvov 17 June 2016 18: 41
    +1
    Turkish political scientists tend to blame some external forces for the deterioration of relations between Russia and Turkey,
    yeah, it’s an external force that shot down a plane and killed a pilot.
  27. Mentat
    Mentat 17 June 2016 23: 13
    +1
    Quote: Humpty
    Quote: Mentat
    Look at the avatar of the character.


    Not noticed by me, but paranoia is not a good sign.

    Really? And your avatar like that, the murmur of an irrigation ditch inspired, or deliberately chose, in accordance with the views and life position? Or maybe you feel a subconscious connection right?

    You have on your profile picture a portrait of Yavornytsky Repin. This is the same Yavornytsky who suggested Repin write a picture about Mazepa, for the betrayal of Russia awarded by Peter I the one-of-a-kind “Order of Judah”. To Yavornytsky’s proposal, Repin answered clearly: “... I felt unbearably sad when you began to praise the plotabout which you write in your letter. I do not understand the meaning and significance of this plot now, and even then it is also disgusting to me and deserves only a negative attitude towards it. Pansky Poland hates me, and Mazepa is the most typical rogue, a pan Pole, ready to do anything for his gain and his Polish ambition. ”

    Yavornitsky proved to have connections with the nationalist-minded underground of the Cossacks, several times went over the brink of accusations of supporting separatism.

    Empathize, empathize, put in a fit of emotion on the avatar?
    Tell me more about paranoia, dearest? And I can look through your messages, suddenly there the murmur of aryk still inspired something “on the subject”.
    1. Humpty
      Humpty 18 June 2016 04: 13
      0
      Quote: Mentat
      the murmur of the canal inspired

      Following yours, it’s better to say what , logic. If you depicted the shadow of Hamlet's father on your avatar, then you are a fanatic of Anglo-Saxon culture and a Danish spy.
      Quote: Mentat
      This is the same Yavornitsky who

      Yavorsky, Yavorsky um? Oh yes, the Soviet Union, a school, a textbook on physics (Yavorsky, Pinsky). Pushkin Nature Reserve. Nice to remember.
  28. Mentat
    Mentat 18 June 2016 17: 06
    0
    Quote: Humpty
    Quote: Mentat
    the murmur of the canal inspired

    Following yours, it’s better to say what , logic. If you depicted the shadow of Hamlet's father on your avatar, then you are a fanatic of Anglo-Saxon culture and a Danish spy.

    Following the logic and generally available knowledge, if you have a Rainbow Dash from the series “My Little Pony” on the avatar of an adult man, this has a connection with your mentality (fan clubs exist), just as if you choose a Playboy symbol for your avatar.
    You have chosen yourself from the countless variety of available characters and images of Yavornytsky.
  29. tiaman.76
    tiaman.76 18 June 2016 23: 48
    0
    "Sultan" in a stalemate. Turkey actually suffers huge economic damage from enmity with us .. but the conditions that Putin put forward to Erdagan are obviously not feasible .. all the same, the eastern mentality .. this is not a western democracies in fact, this country has the status of a sultanate. admitting his guilt, and publicly this sultan makes himself essentially a political hehe hehe castrat. well, and the consequences will not wait for a long time ... for Erdagan they are very bad to say the least
  30. D. Dan
    D. Dan 19 June 2016 00: 36
    +1
    Until the Turks returned to the stream of the system that Attaturk established had nothing to do with them at all, the pugnacious nation always crap us.
  31. fix
    fix 20 June 2016 13: 11
    0
    Yes, Erdagan will not apologize. Another president will apologize, the next one.
  32. surok12
    surok12 20 June 2016 20: 54
    0
    Quote: Razvedka_Boem
    It would be better if Lavrenty Pavlovich was erected a monument.

    The best monument for him is our nuclear missile shield.