Media: T-50 is almost ready to launch in the series.

UAC is preparing a preliminary opinion on the release of the installation batch of the newest T-50 airline complexes (PAK FA) for the Russian Aerospace Force, the newspaper reports News with reference to a source close to the aircraft manufacturing corporation.

According to the interlocutor, "The 20 of June in Komsomolsk-on-Amur will take off the eighth vehicle of the series, which almost completely meets the requirements of the military in terms of combat capabilities for a fifth-generation fighter."

“Unlike previous aircraft, the eighth board is fully equipped with equipment and systems prescribed in the terms of reference for the creation of a promising front-line complex aviation. It is with the advent of this fighter that we can say that the T-50, as a combat unit, has gained a real face and is ready for mass production in the interests of the VKS ”,

he explained.

“At the moment, in the shops of the Komsomolsk-on-Amur Aviation Plant (KnAAZ) there are four more T-50 in varying degrees of readiness. Machine number 9 will join the flight tests of the complex in September. The next two, 10-i and 11-i, are on the stocks: the first fuselage is attached to the first, the center section is assembled from the second. By the end of the year, both will enter the flight test phase, ”the source said, noting that in the fall, the KLA will be ready to sign the contract for the delivery of the installation batch.

As stated by the Commander-in-Chief of the VKS, Viktor Bondarev, the deliveries of cars should begin next year.

“The installation batch is at least 12 machines, that is, one squadron. They do not include fighters currently undergoing tests. That is, in 2017, in the interests of the VKS, completely new combat vehicles that meet the requirements of the technical specifications will be built and delivered, which will have to go through a stage of military tests, after which we can talk about expanding the procurement, ”said the head of the Center for Analysis of Strategies and Technologies (Center AST ) Ruslan Pukhov.

According to the expert, one should not expect that in the coming years, the T-50 will become a mass aircraft. "If only because the fifth generation engines, known today as the" Type 30 ", or second-stage engines, are under development," he said.

“Serial T-50s will go into service with 117С engines, the same as on Su-35 fighters. Although they provide the necessary total thrust, sufficient to achieve supersonic cruising speed, they do not meet the requirements of the fifth generation in terms of the ratio of weight and thrust, as well as fuel consumption. The technical complexity of engine development requires very long bench and flight tests, which will affect the overall development time of the T-50, ”noted Pukhov.

According to various estimates, these engines will receive the PAK FA only in 2025-2027. “Only then can we say that the T-50 has become a real fifth-generation aircraft,” he added.

“It seems to me that today we need to be ahead of the curve, not only developing T-50 under the FGFA program (export name PAK FA, Fifth Generation Fighter Aircraft) with our strategic partner in the field of military-technical cooperation, India, but also by offering it to Algeria and Vietnam. Both countries have an independent military-technical policy and have their own funds for the purchase of modern weapons. Thanks to the alliance with them, the creation of the T-50 can be cheapened by making it a massive fighter, ”said Pukhov.

Comments

[Byshido_dis]

Very good news!!! Just do not stop ahead!

[PHANTOM-AS]

Quote: Byshido_dis

Very good news!!! Just do not stop ahead!

Where did you see the good news?
in the fact that we get a full-fledged 5th generation airplane in 11 years, in this you saw grace?
Or is it important for you to settle down by reading the article diagonally?
Stop blowing soap pusiri, dear!

[Muvka]

Quote: PHANTOM-AS

Quote: Byshido_dis

Very good news!!! Just do not stop ahead!

Where did you see the good news?
in the fact that we get a full-fledged 5th generation airplane in 11 years, in this you saw grace?
Or is it important for you to settle down by reading the article diagonally?
Stop blowing soap pusiri, dear!

Then, according to this criterion, the F-35 does not belong to the 5th generation, because it has a significantly lower thrust ratio than the T-50 with the current engines ...

[Pereira]

We are talking about our plane. Is the engine already new? Do not know?

[iliitchitch]

Quote: Pereira

We are talking about our plane. Is the engine already new? Do not know?

So it is written - 117C, as on the SU-35C, the old engine, 119 will be tormented for a long time, as I understand it. But even with this, he’s completely fine, while they will polish the rest, it’s time for arming.

[Voyager]

At PAK FA, the engines are not 117C. Not from the Su-35.

[iliitchitch]

Quote: Voyager

At PAK FA, the engines are not 117C. Not from the Su-35.

But what is it - either I'm stupid, or the skis do not go. The article clearly says - 117С AS AS on the SU-35S, and not only in this article, by the way.
And, I realized - standing on the SU-35S is already different, because it is not on the T-50. And why, logically, in the style of the beauty Jenny.

[Muvka]

AL-41F1S (Product 117C) Su-35:
The engine differs from AL-41F1 in the use of the old electromechanical control system and traction reduced by 500 kg [7].

The AL-31F41S engine differs from AL-1F in increased thrust (14500 kgf vs. 12500), longer overhaul life (4000 hours against 1000), reduced fuel consumption, controlled by the thrust vector, and also allow the aircraft to develop supersonic speed without using afterburner, which is one of the basic requirements for a fifth generation fighter.

AL-41F1 T-50:
AL-41F1 (Product 117) consists of 80% new parts. The main ones are:

low pressure compressor
high pressure compressor
plasma ignition system [4]
combustion chamber [4]
compressor with a diameter increased to 932 mm [3]
afterburner combustion chamber
full-view thrust vector control, ± 16 ° in any direction, and ± 20 ° of the plane [5]
digital control system with elements of distributed parameters
Thanks to these measures, the thrust force of the AL-41F1 engine increased significantly: 15000 kgf vs. 12500 kgf of the AL-31F, the service life increased (4000 hours versus 1000) and the reliability increased, fuel consumption decreased [3]. For the first time, a plasma ignition system was implemented, which ensured the possibility of an oxygen-free engine start:

[Operator]

Head of the Center for Analysis of Strategies and Technologies (AST Center) "expert" Ruslan Pukhov:
“Serial T-50 will go into service with 117С motors, same, what are on the Su-35 fighters "- why publish on VO this bullshit?

[Muvka]

Quote: Operator

Head of the Center for Analysis of Strategies and Technologies (AST Center) "expert" Ruslan Pukhov:
“Serial T-50 will go into service with 117С motors, same, what are on the Su-35 fighters "- why publish on VO this bullshit?

You have correctly enclosed the word "expert" with quotation marks.

[Lex.]

expert "Ruslan Pukhov:
He thinks that he is an expert, but far from an expert, he is like Pavel Evgenievich Felgenhauer, a Russian biologist, journalist, and military observer. Biologist by education

[Parsec]

Quote: Lex.

He thinks that he is an expert, but far from an expert, he is like Pavel Evgenievich Felgenhauer, a Russian biologist, journalist, and military observer. Biologist by education

How will this be said in Russian, but, a former compatriot?

[bobba94]

In addition to the Felgenhauer, there are many more such expertoffs in Echo of Moscow and Novaya Gazeta. Characteristically, they all were once biologists, design engineers of the 25th category and so on, but they all attended seminars at Stanford University, where grace descended upon them and they suddenly became military experts.

[Voyager]

Do not believe everything that is written in newspapers 117 and 117C are not the same thing at all

[Bayonet]

Quote: Voyager

Do not believe everything that is written in newspapers

And do not read them before dinner!

[Terminolol]

It seems that many articles here do not read and write comments.

[Ardein]

Quote: iliitch

Quote: Pereira

We are talking about our plane. Is the engine already new? Do not know?

So it is written - 117C, as on the SU-35C, the old engine, 119 will be tormented for a long time, as I understand it. But even with this, he’s completely fine, while they will polish the rest, it’s time for arming.

It’s quite for yourself - it seems like it comes to supersonic without afterburner? Is there a UVT? Well, great for a start :)

[NEXUS]

Quote: Ardein

It’s quite for yourself - it seems like it comes to supersonic without afterburner?

I’ll tell you more, for PAK FA with this engine, a world record in climbing. If sclerosis does not change me, something is about 384 m / s

[silver_roman]

Quote: NEXUS

behind PAK FA with this engine the world record for climbing.

I wonder which board achieved such climb?
The question is relevant, because only 8 board (based on the words in the article, has ALL systems and equipment that will be installed on serial aircraft, therefore the 8 board is the heaviest, since some nodes could be missing on others. Correspondingly, climb 8 may be lower .

[SSeT]

11 years will torment analog F-119? Well Molotstsy, Cho can’t say here, the cross-archers are simple! go forward!

[NEXUS]

Quote: Pereira

We are talking about our plane. Is the engine already new?

The engine of the second stage is promised to be brought to mind by the 18th year ... while they are chasing it at the stand.

[Aaron Zawi]

Quote: NEXUS

The engine of the second stage is promised to be brought to mind by the 18th year ... while they are chasing it at the stand.

Already, as you see, they do not promise.

[NEXUS]

Quote: Aron Zaavi

Already, as you see, they do not promise.

Wait and see. It is important that work on the product 30 is in progress.

[Bayonet]

Quote: NEXUS

Wait and see.

This is true! A hat toss, ahead of time is not worth it!

[Lex.]

As you can see, they do not promise. And tomorrow another expert will say something else

[silver_roman]

to the 18th is not real. The engine will be tested only for 2 years and brought to mind, i.e. in order to accept it by the year 18, he must already undergo tests in the gland. And it seems like it is not even assembled yet.
So before 20 years will not be a FACT! But again, do not dwell on this. Al-41F1 is an excellent engine, proven.

[mihai_md2003]

Quote: NEXUS

Quote: Pereira

We are talking about our plane. Is the engine already new?

The engine of the second stage is promised to be brought to mind by the 18th year ... while they are chasing it at the stand.

this is somehow nicer to the ear all the same 18 is not 27. Something in the article is a lot of inconsistencies. And the engine is not the same and the timing is not the same. Or maybe I didn’t understand something. The engine of the second stage is this the necessary engine for this aircraft?

[Aaron Zawi]

Quote: Muvka

Then, according to this criterion, the F-35 does not belong to the 5th generation, because it has a significantly lower thrust ratio than the T-50 with the current engines ...

The F-35 is a fighter-bomber, and the T-50 is a pure fighter or, as they say, "air conqueror". Different requirements are presented to them. For example, there is an estimate that to ensure superiority against the T-50, triple air superiority of the F-35 in the absence of the F-22 is necessary.

[Muvka]

Promising Front-End Aviation Complex (PAK FA, T-50, I-21) - Russian multipurpose fifth generation fighter.
I hope you know the meaning of the word "multipurpose"?

[vv3]

Until we create a combat information and control system for conducting a modern war, we will not have a 5th generation aircraft, we will have a good platform for a 5th generation aircraft, but without brains and without a system in which it should be integrated. a beautiful word for dummies and uryat. Only no offense.

[Sergei75]

Before the launch of the T-50 in a series - as before China! There, the campaign is a problem with the glider.

[NEXUS]

Quote: Sergei75

Before the launch of the T-50 in a series - as before China! There, the campaign is a problem with the glider.

With what fright? What problems? I flew and flew, and at parades, and at exhibitions, and then the "problem hike"? No need to fantasize if there is no concrete evidence of your words, dear.
8-th prototype, this is not a simple plane, but pre-production version, which means that the launch of the series will be very soon.

[Yars]

Quote: NEXUS

Quote: Sergei75

Before the launch of the T-50 in a series - as before China! There, the campaign is a problem with the glider.

With what fright? What problems? I flew and flew, and at parades, and at exhibitions, and then the "problem hike"? No need to fantasize if there is no concrete evidence of your words, dear.
8-th prototype, this is not a simple plane, but pre-production version, which means that the launch of the series will be very soon.

such a job for these guys, troll shit mom! All wearers ........

[iliitchitch]

Quote: Aron Zaavi

The T-50 is a pure fighter or, as they say, "airspace conqueror".

In, damn it, what you just will not hear. Of course, a clean fighter, a colleague, alcohol, and then not so clean.

[Aaron Zawi]

Quote: iliitch

Quote: Aron Zaavi

The T-50 is a pure fighter or, as they say, "airspace conqueror".

In, damn it, what you just will not hear. Of course, a clean fighter, a colleague, alcohol, and then not so clean.

Well, somewhere like that. The F-22 also has the ability to attack targets on the ground and even bombed something in Syria, but nevertheless, the US Air Force sees it primarily as a "conqueror of airspace."

[NEXUS]

Quote: Aron Zaavi

For example, there is an estimate that to achieve superiority against the T-50, triple air superiority in the F-35 is required in the absence of the F-22.

Since when is a heavy fighter compared to a light fighter-bomber?

[Aaron Zawi]

Quote: NEXUS

Quote: Aron Zaavi

For example, there is an estimate that to achieve superiority against the T-50, triple air superiority in the F-35 is required in the absence of the F-22.

Since when is a heavy fighter compared to a light fighter-bomber?

They do not compare, but evaluate the potential of opposition. A virtual comparison of the MiG-29vsF15 is carried out. Although the first is light, and the second is heavy.

[NEXUS]

Quote: Aron Zaavi

They do not compare, but evaluate the potential of opposition.

Even in comparison of the potential of confrontation, this is not correct, for a simple reason, mattresses, in a hepotitic confrontation in the air with us, will never throw their 50s into battle with the T-35, because the losses will not be justified by the goals. PAK FA is too good. " sharpened "for air battles and for him the 35th is very easy prey. And this is not bravado, but a fact.

[Aaron Zawi]

Quote: NEXUS

Even in comparison of the potential of confrontation, this is not correct, for a simple reason, mattresses, in a hepotitic confrontation in the air with us, will never throw their 50s into battle with the T-35, because the losses will not be justified by the goals. PAK FA is too good. " sharpened "for air battles and for him the 35th is very easy prey. And this is not bravado, but a fact.

What do you mean they will not quit? In principle, any fighter-bomber is imprisoned for air combat. Theoretically, in the case of some kind of regional conflict where the 50s and 35s can converge, the latter has a number of advantages, such as a lower ESR, a more advanced avionics and, finally, just the ability to concentrate much more vehicles for military operations. T / e, even without taking into account the 22x US will be able to create an advantage of 35 in the air to 50m 5/1, which means an advantage in the number of missiles in-in. I’m talking about a regional conflict, since a direct clash between the Russian Federation and the United States is death for all of humanity.

[NEXUS]

Quote: Aron Zaavi

What do you mean they will not quit?

And that means ... to remind you how much this unit costs? The big losses of these machines will not justify any purpose.

Quote: Aron Zaavi

In principle, any fighter-bomber is imprisoned for air combat.

It is possible with its equal ... but ... the T-50 is a "purebred" air fighter, which cannot be said about the 35th

Quote: Aron Zaavi

like lower ESR

Did the mattresses tell you this or did you find out from the wiki?

Quote: Aron Zaavi

more advanced avionics

Is this a fright? Do you know what is on the PAK FA and TTX of its electronics? For me, the T-50 avionics will be more powerful, at least because it is a heavy fighter.

Quote: Aron Zaavi

T / e, even without taking into account the 22x USA, will be able to create an advantage of 35 in the air to 50m 5/1,

5 to one? By the 20th year, let’s see what the ratio will be.

[GSH-18]

Quote: NEXUS

.but ... T-50 is a "purebred" air fighter,

Not at all! This is a 5th generation MFI. He can do everything much better than "purebred"
That's why he is "five"

[NEXUS]

Quote: GSH-18

Not at all! This is a 5th generation MFI. He can do everything much better than "purebred"

That's right, MFI ... only he has the main task for which he was created and for which he sharpened, as well as the "lizard" is the establishment of air domination.

[GSH-18]

Quote: NEXUS

That's right, MFI ... only he has the main task for which he was created and for which he sharpened, as well as the "lizard" is the establishment of air domination.

For the T-50, the main task is determined by the doctrine of use in the aerospace forces, and, accordingly, the TK of the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation for its appearance, application and production. MFIs have no framework for use. That's why they are MFIs. Yes, the T-50 can effectively kill everyone in the air, but that's only part of what it can do. We are getting rid of the "purebred" fighters of the MiG-29 type.

[Bayonet]

Quote: NEXUS

It is possible with an equal ... but ... the T-50 is a "purebred" air fighter,

Among the basic requirements for a new car, were listed:

multifunctionality, which implied equal opportunities for operations on air, ground and surface targets;
low visibility in all spectra (visual, radar, thermal and electromagnetic);

over-maneuverability, which implied the implementation of unconventional techniques and tactical elements of air combat, as well as expanding the range of possible flight modes without going to the brink of stall and stall;

supersonic cruising flight speeds, allowing for an energetic manner of aerial combat, imposing an initiative on the enemy and quick response to changing tactical conditions.

[Ardein]

Quote: Aaron Zawi

Quote: NEXUS

Even in comparison of the potential of confrontation, this is not correct, for a simple reason, mattresses, in a hepotitic confrontation in the air with us, will never throw their 50s into battle with the T-35, because the losses will not be justified by the goals. PAK FA is too good. " sharpened "for air battles and for him the 35th is very easy prey. And this is not bravado, but a fact.

What do you mean they will not quit? In principle, any fighter-bomber is imprisoned for air combat. Theoretically, in the case of some kind of regional conflict where the 50s and 35s can converge, the latter has a number of advantages, such as a lower ESR, a more advanced avionics and, finally, just the ability to concentrate much more vehicles for military operations. T / e, even without taking into account the 22x US will be able to create an advantage of 35 in the air to 50m 5/1, which means an advantage in the number of missiles in-in. I’m talking about a regional conflict, since a direct clash between the Russian Federation and the United States is death for all of humanity.

You didn’t enter the essence of the news. And after all, it is written there that this instance differs from the previous ones precisely in that it is installed on it NATIONAL BREO. An optical-electronic detection station with a T-50 has not been done anywhere - which means that the F-35 is a very small EPR, the detection range of our ECO is 60-70 kilometers (this does not include the new T-50 radar, which is at least composite and provides a circular view of several hundred km with decent resolution) which does not leave the F-35 a chance with a range of RVV-SD under 70 km or more ... I don’t even talk about RVV-DB ......... ......................

[GSH-18]

Quote: Ardein

And after all, it is written there that this instance differs from the previous ones precisely in that it has the NUMBER BREO installed. Optoelectronic detection station with T-50, no one did not go anywhere

Right. This is a pre-production sample.

[LastLap]

Put a plus. Since the irons are paid for by Aunt Nata, Uncle Izya and other distant and close relatives, it is more than possible to create a quantitative advantage, but Aunt Nata is absolutely not ready for a communal apartment in dust. Again, if there is an opportunity for comrade Ho or no one Ali to acquire an analogue of the 22nd at a price lower than the 35th, uncertainty arises and the question: "Wouldn't Aunt Nata and uncles like her go?"

[Bayonet]

Quote: Aron Zaavi

In principle, any fighter-bomber is imprisoned for air combat.

This is already in the name itself - Fighter-bomber.

[NEXUS]

Quote: Bayonet

This is already in the name itself - Fighter-bomber.

In the case of the F-35 rather fighter-BOMBERS. And for me, so Lightning is closer to the attack aircraft.

[11 black]

Quote: Aron Zaavi

What do you mean they will not quit? In principle, any fighter-bomber is imprisoned for air combat. Theoretically, in the case of some kind of regional conflict, where 50 and 35 can converge, the latter has a number of advantages, such as a lower ESR, more advanced avionics

Do you have any idea what kind of avionics is on the T-50 - there is a NO-36 complex of three radars with AFAR giving out the T-50 almost all-round visibility. And he looks simultaneously in three directions. There are also 2 L-band radars in the wings - presumably an "anti-stealth detector" and also a laser countermeasuring system for optical / IR seeker and the most modern electronic warfare complex in the Himalayas. Two machines with this system synchronize their work and even in the signal source detection mode, the enemy sees only an imaginary target.
As well as SOAR in a circle and the latest OLS. What superiority of avionics F-35 are we talking about?
Remind you of the speeds of these machines, their maneuverability and combat radius? Can recall the quality of the missiles themselves? Even in an 10 fight on an 2, I would put it on the T-50 since the F-35 has nothing to do with knocking out this car (the optics and infrared range are blocked by the KS-O station, the Himalayas working in tandem pressurize missiles from the radar without allowing themselves to be detected) .. .IMHO

[vv3]

You should tell fairy tales to children ... The possibilities that you came up with are 100% dependent on the level of computer technology and software ... Americans cannot provide a solution to the tasks envisioned on the F35 and have changed the software several times (about 10). their level of computing base. This is the only significant problem of the aircraft, because of which it does not officially go into series ... And you are in Chinese and Indian consumer goods for avionics T-50, which, as stated in the article, is fully assembled for the first time and only everything will be tested already implemented ... I arrogantly affirm that the main AFAR modes will not be implemented on the T-50 even after the installation of engines of the second stage ... Your fairy tales, or rather, nothing reinforced by nonsense ... leave yourself and the like .. . It is necessary to really think, and not engage in hat-making, it only harms our country.

[SSeT]

And the Turks will not abandon their F-30s against Sy-35-16 in Syria, yeah! Do not be stupid, they draw the real situation for you, not speculation

[vv3]

What nonsense do you know what modern warfare is? Modern warfare is a war of information technology and the ability to use them. What is a pure fighter? ..Just no words ...

[NEXUS]

Quote: vv3

What nonsense, you know what modern war is. Modern warfare is a war of information technology and the ability to use them. What is a pure fighter? ..Just no words ...

Dear, you are talking nonsense. What information technologies? What are these technologies worth if the same AWACS is taken out of the game? Where will you put your 35th then?
Nobody has canceled electronic warfare systems. And we just know how to use them, and therefore these technologies are easy to multiply by zero.
Don't be smart. Look stupid.

[GSH-18]

Quote: NEXUS

Dear, you are talking nonsense. What information technologies? What are these technologies worth if the same AWACS is taken out of the game? Where will you put your 35th then?

Dear Nexus, I want to stand up for our seropogonous odnositnika. The fact is that electronics are different. It all depends on the qualifications of the engineers. Have you ever heard of rugged military electronics that can withstand repeated exposure to EMP from nuclear weapons? And about the electronics of the "Space" class?
Well, all the rumors about the unreliability of electronic weapons systems are greatly exaggerated and outdated. The EW field of our systems in Syria in no way prevented our Dryers from working as if nothing had happened.

[NEXUS]

Quote: GSH-18

Dear Nexus, I want to stand up for our seropogonny odnosaytnika.

Who offends him, then? Touched by those individuals who, absolutely not knowing the "stuffing" of the fighter and its capabilities, so confidently pose as a guardian of progress in our military-industrial complex.

[GSH-18]

Quote: NEXUS

Touched by those individuals who, absolutely not knowing the "stuffing" of the fighter and its capabilities, so confidently pose as a guardian of progress in our military-industrial complex.

What should I do? Not all specialists on the site, but many want to seem them

[bk316]

Quote: GSH-18

Have you ever heard of protected military electronics that can withstand repeated exposure to electromagnetic radiation from nuclear weapons

Sorry to wedge myself. I once even wrote about such electronics.
But what does our phrase "seropogonous" have to do with this exactly as with the discussed news?
"Modern warfare is the war of information technology ..."
Why do we need spells like "Economy should be economical" on the forum?

[vv3]

Only for you . And you don’t have to hide in the fog of globalism ... In the center of the combat control in Syria, a group of tactical operators are on duty at the monitors. Each has its own sector, its own assigned fire weapons with the entered coordinates of the base and the calculated zones of destruction on the screen. The operator receives overview information from patrol UAVs can receive information from AWACS or satellites if they control its area or patrol SU-35. And the cheapest way is from stationary observation points ... For example, the area of ​​the Syrian-Turkish border. If an enemy is detected, the operator through the control operator of the desired UAV determines the coordinates of the target and turns on the mode of automatic tracking of the target with available means of destruction. ACS and MLRS work out the pointing angles in real time. If the radius is not enough, but it is enough, the operator communicates and provides the transmission of the coordinates of the target for attack helicopters or airplanes in the air. duty means. With the help of operator programs it selects the priority means of destruction taking into account the type of target. It identifies the target and destroys it. Most likely, in our case this will be ground-based fire weapons, there are enough radius from Alepo. Impact UAVs are not needed ... That's all, there is no war in Syria ... I for the educational program he drew the most simple, already possible, but it is not clear why the unrealized scenario ... Such systems should have entered the Army before 2020. The program adopted in 2000 failed, even the concept of such a system failed. Tested in 2013, the ESU TK does not work, was created for window dressing and is overloaded with unnecessary rear functions .... This is not even an F-35 for you ... It's about the inability to wage a modern war ...

[vv3]

For his seditious thoughts in this discussion, I already received 39 minuses, but also 17 pluses. Previously, they just pecked ...

[Yars]

Quote: vv3

For his seditious thoughts in this discussion, I already received 39 minuses, but also 17 pluses. Previously, they just pecked ...

Yes for your nonsense and 50 minuses are few!

[Come on]

What is the nonsense, can be more specific?

[GSH-18]

Quote: vv3

This is not even an F-35 ... It's about the inability to wage a modern war ...

And the results of the combat unit of the Syrian company indicate the opposite. The fact is a stubborn thing. Moreover, this "advanced" Western coalition, in comparison with our Russian Aerospace Forces, has shown itself in all its "glory"
In fact, our videoconferencing made these "warriors" to ridicule
So much for the "bad" Russian control system

[vv3]

And that the war is over, or already won, watch TV and shout cheers, this is your level! Probably, you dream of becoming a spotter in this modern war.

[11 black]

Quote: vv3

And that the war is over, or already won, watch TV and shout cheers, this is your level! Probably, you dream of becoming a spotter in this modern war.

No - we "dream" of bombing exclusively hospitals, excavators and allies in this modern war ...

[Come on]

Can you be more specific about the "results"? The complete absence of electronic warfare and air defense .., the lost Drying and at least 3 helicopters .. And it’s also interesting, on what basis do you make any comparisons with the "western coalition", which was allegedly shamed? I suspect you have no other sources and "facts" except from the "Time" program. Moreover, there was no "Western coalition" in the "Syrian company", they actually bombed in Iraq .. Oh yes, the results .., so who prevents you from comparing the occupied settlements of ISIS in the summer of 2014 (when ISIS first announced itself , after which, in September, the mattress toppers began air strikes) and today in Iraq?

[Come on]

Quote: NEXUS

What information technology?

The ability to wage a "network-centric war", which NATO has long been introduced, in Russia there is still a long way to go.

Quote: NEXUS

What are these technologies worth if the same AWACS is taken out of the game? Where do you put your 35th then?

First, how are you going to take AWACS out of the game? What has to do with how many of these AWACS NATO has? And the F-35 itself, in your opinion, is it a miserable car without its own avionics?

Quote: NEXUS

Nobody has canceled electronic warfare systems. And we just know how to use them, and therefore these technologies are easy to multiply by zero.

And where are these electronic warfare systems used successfully? Especially against a high-tech adversary like NATO / USA? Why then do you need a T-50 when you can stuff a fat IL-76 with electronic warfare systems and NATO technology multiplied by zero :)

[NEXUS]

Quote: Yeah, well.

The ability to wage a "network-centric war", which NATO has long been introduced, in Russia there is still a long way to go.

About how ... but in Syria, does our VKS blindly bomb ISIS? Do not talk nonsense, do not become like a critic who has no idea what he is talking about.

Quote: Yeah, well.

First of all, how are you going to take AWACS out of the game?

For example, the R-37 missile ... or from the ground with the S-400 complex (In the future, S-500). And there are also electronic warfare systems that are designed to mold AWACS.

Quote: Yeah, well.

What does it mean to how many of these AWACS have NATO?

Remind me how many tools at our disposal to withdraw AWACS from the game?

Quote: Yeah, well.

Yes, and the F-35 itself, in your opinion, that, wretchedly, without your own avionics machine?

Dear, this phrase of yours says that you do not see the difference between a heavy fighter and a light one (at the same time, the F-35 with its AFAR, given its detection range, simply will not have time to release "far-hand" missiles, but in close combat, he is not a tenant) Just look at what is the range of the longest-range missile at the mattresses, the detection radius of the AFAR F-35, the detection radius of at least the IRBIS HEADLIGHTS, which is on the SU-35S (I will not say anything about the Belka), the radius of our far and middle arms and the oncoming the speed of convergence ... and you will understand everything.

Quote: Yeah, well.

And where are these electronic warfare systems used successfully?

Georgia for example.

Quote: Yeah, well.

Especially against a high-tech adversary like NATO / USA?

No question ... the incident with the destroyer Kuk ... and I'm not talking about the Khibiny, which are NOT on the SU-24, but about the coastal EW complexes, for example, the Monolith.

Quote: Yeah, well.

Why then do you need a T-50 when you can stuff a fat IL-76 with electronic warfare systems and NATO technology multiplied by zero :)

Good idea. Only EW today, not everything can be solved, unfortunately.

[Come on]

Quote: NEXUS

About how ... but in Syria, does our VKS blindly bomb ISIS? Do not talk nonsense, do not become like a critic who has no idea what he is talking about.

And where does the bombing of stationary targets and the ability to wage a "network-centric war"? Do you know what this "network-centric war" is? Russia has just begun not only to master, to think in this direction. This is a single tactical information platform, from an individual infantryman to the General Staff, everyone sees everything in real time. To do this, you first need thousands of UAVs of different classes, up to heavy ones, with satellite communications. It is necessary to provide everything with BIUS, from a platoon of infantrymen to armored vehicles and aircraft of all classes. Yes, and communication satellites still need to be launched a lot, and all this should still have its own methods of broadband communication, in order to have n of the item in live time at any distance. picture in live time. Until then, until the moon.

Quote: NEXUS

For example, the R-37 missile ... or from the ground with the S-400 complex (In the future, S-500). And there are also electronic warfare systems that are designed to mold AWACS.

The P-37 has a maximum range of 300 km, AWACS can see for 600 km and even more so AWACS have nothing to do in the air defense coverage area. Before approaching AWACS at these 300 km, in order to see it at all, one must also defeat all the interceptors. Moreover, interceptors of the F-35 and F-22 type will not only be inconspicuous for the Su-35, or T-50 radars, but they will not need to radiate anything, since the same AWACS will give them target designation. What electronic warfare can drown AWACS at 600km ?? Such electronic warfare systems themselves will radiate such power that they themselves will become easy prey for long-range anti-radar missiles, up to sea and ground-based cruise missiles.

[Come on]

Quote: Yeah, well.

Remind me how many tools at our disposal to withdraw AWACS from the game?

Remind please.

Quote: Yeah, well.

Dear, this phrase of yours says that you do not see the difference between a heavy fighter and a light one (at the same time, the F-35 with its AFAR, given its detection range, simply will not have time to release "far-hand" missiles, but in close combat, he is not a tenant) Just look at what is the range of the longest-range missile at the mattresses, the detection radius of the AFAR F-35, the detection radius of at least the IRBIS HEADLIGHTS, which is on the SU-35S (I will not say anything about the Belka), the radius of our far and middle arms and the oncoming the speed of convergence ... and you will understand everything.

The difference between a heavy and a "light" fighter is in the range, and the armament, the same F-35 in full body kit can carry up to 10 tons, and if we are talking about stealth, then there is enough space in the inner compartments for 4 long-range missiles. Wherein the refueling tankers, of which NATO has a damn thing, level the range of heavy fighters of the Su-35 type. For some reason, based on the maximum detection radius of the Su-35's HEADLIGHTS, you do not take into account that this distance refers to a huge aircraft with a giant RCS. Not only is the angle of the Su-35 HEADLIGHTS small in the front projection and not necessarily the F-22, the F-35 will go straight in the forehead, but they can approach from the side, but they also have an EPR the size of a seagull for this HEADLIGHT, then the Su-35 will be able to detect them only at a distance of no more than 100 km (this is still very optimistic), but he himself will be on the radar of the same AWACS for a long time, which will allow the F-35, F-22 to launch their long-range missiles (which are also only according to open data, they hit targets up to 300 km). In addition, NATO has decoys of decoys for opening air defense radars, or phased array fighters. If we are talking about such a fight, then all factors must be taken into account.

Quote: Yeah, well.

Georgia for example.

Georgia is not NATO, they also found an example for me. What does the EW use it against? Against the connection AWACS + F-22 / F-35? Yes, and this company is also hard to call successful, given the number of lost aircraft.

Quote: NEXUS

No question ... the incident with the destroyer Kuk ... and I'm not talking about the Khibiny, which are NOT on the SU-24, but about the coastal EW complexes, for example, the Monolith.

Well, what was that incident there? Are there reliable sources? Was this KUK command reporting that their destroyer was blinded and stunned from the shore? And since when did the Monolith become a means of electronic warfare? What can he do to Cook, except to detect him, if he is of course at a distance sufficient to detect and if he can overcome the electronic warfare of Cook himself?

Quote: NEXUS

Good idea. Only EW today, not everything can be solved, unfortunately.

That's it, I agree with that. Not only that, in my opinion it is too much to hope for electronic warfare, which against many technologies is helpless, or by virtue of its physical principles itself may become the original goal, if it really gets in the way, it’s not worth it. As an example, mattresses with their Grolers successfully extinguished Saddam's radars, but for complexes like the S-300 (later versions) and more modern, or against other non-radar detection tools that Saddam did not have, they would hardly have helped. In general, it’s better we will argue and discuss here before shit, but if only we would never know how it will be all in reality.

[Corsair]

Quote: vv3

What nonsense do you know what modern warfare is? Modern warfare is a war of information technology and the ability to use them. What is a pure fighter? ..Just no words ...

Well, yes, of course, that's what I watch the Americans and remembered about the Thunderbolts about the B-52. Remember one simple engineering rule: The more complex the equipment and the more dependent on another set of the same systems, the less resistant it is to all kinds of breakdowns and failures.
All current super-super-dupes are big show-offs for the Papuans, the main tasks are always solved with simpler and cheaper tools. Modern technologies are not invulnerable and you can always find a solution that in its simplicity will be cheaper and more efficient.

[Come on]

Quote: Corsair

Well, yes, of course, that's what I watch the Americans and remembered about the Thunderbolts about the B-52

And how will the use of these machines cancel the use of modern technology? Do you think that you want to use the B-52 and A-10 of the first series? You may be interested in how modernized machines differ from old ones, just modern avionics and other systems.

Quote: Corsair

Remember one simple engineering rule: The more complex the equipment and the more dependent on another set of the same systems, the less resistant it is to all kinds of breakdowns and failures.

And you tell the developers of PAK Fa and Almaty, explain to them that it is better to rivet the T-72A and Mig-21 in thousands, because -

Quote: Corsair

All current super-super-dupes are big show-offs for the Papuans, the main tasks are always solved with simpler and cheaper tools.

Quote: Corsair

Modern technologies are not invulnerable and you can always find a solution that in its simplicity will be cheaper and more efficient.

It seems that the leading world military-industrial complex are going the wrong way, they would have your wisdom ..

[Operator]

The project is called PAK Front Aviation, the aircraft has the word "multifunctional" in its name. Therefore, the T-50 after being put into service will be no worse, but better than the Su-35S, to perform the functions of an interceptor, an air superiority fighter, a strike aircraft with a combat load of over 10 tons, a cruise missile carrier aircraft, an electronic warfare aircraft, etc. etc.

The highly specialized F-35 bomber (with speed and maneuverability of the iron) and the F-22 fighter (without OLS and with slop AIM-120D) modestly smoke bamboo.

[dauria]

F-35 is a fighter-bomber, and T-50 is a clean fighter

Careful ... This религия the local site - "F-35 rubbish and drank dough." It's safer for you to attack Christianity - they will not immediately break

A couple more topics
1 We urgently need a submarine with VNU, everything else is rubbish
2 Ukrainians are greedy, cunning, ungrateful
3 Putin is good, Duma and United Russia are thief, Medvedev is a clown
4 Ka-52 is much better than Mi-28

Stick and become a marshal. You are a Jew, can't you?

[NEXUS]

Quote: dauria

More careful ... This is the religion of the local site - "F-35 stuff and drank dough"

I have my own attitude and opinion on this miracle of the American aircraft industry ... and it is somewhat at odds with the religion of "drank the dough" and with the religion of the "aircraft ahead of time."
The F-35 is a commercial project for US satellites. Mattresses advertise it as a super stealth capable of performing a huge range of tasks. But for a "huge range of tasks" you need at least a good range and thrust-to-weight ratio.
At the same time, the F-35 project itself, as a platform for 3 types of aircraft, is also crude, since we have not yet grown technologically to such a level that we can create an aircraft capable of equally well performing the functions of a fighter, bomber and attack aircraft, but the idea of ​​creating such a platform is quite interesting.
Did you drink some dough there? Surely ... I think that in our programs, the military-industrial complex also saws hard. (Of course, the amounts are incommensurable).

[GSH-18]

Quote: NEXUS

At the same time, the F-35 project itself, as a platform for 3 types of aircraft, is also crude

Well, not really like that. The deck modification of the F-35C is interesting from a technical point of view.
The Americans' mistake lies in the wrong choice of the platform for modification. The single-engine version of the aircraft is not suitable for these purposes. All the more so with the thrust that Pratt & Whittney drove, and its "economy" that they stuck there. The result is a modest range and unsuitability for close combat compared to the same Su-30, for example ...
It seems to me that he was blinded by amerikozy to vparit his wards and cut down on this dough. Look, our Israeli friends are happy without memory.

[PHANTOM-AS]

Quote: dauria

dauria

Quote: dauria

1 We urgently need a submarine with VNU, everything else is rubbish
2 Ukrainians are greedy, cunning, ungrateful
3 Putin is good, Duma and United Russia are thief, Medvedev is a clown
4 Ka-52 is much better than Mi-28

Ha ha ha , You my respect !!!! + 100500

[GSH-18]

Quote: dauria

4 Ka-52 is much better than Mi-28

But this is your point, dear dauria is fully true. And it corresponds to it since the post-Soviet times. As evidenced by the choice of our MO in favor of the Ka-50, which was run on banduks in Chechnya.

[GSH-18]

Quote: Aron Zaavi

F-35 is a fighter-bomber, and T-50 is a clean fighter

Aaron, the T-50 is Stealth-MFI. Design Bureau Sukhoi has not been involved in clean fighters for a long time. It would be high time for you to know this already.
Regarding F-35 .. Just compare the performance characteristics, and all questions will disappear. There’s nothing to argue about I understand your joy that friends from overseas have been honored to sell you a propelled and unfinished aircraft with not the most advanced performance characteristics, EVEN in comparison with the earlier F-22.
Well, you will be fine.
And WE NEED A REAL 5th Generation Ultramodern Aircraft. And we will definitely have it

[PHANTOM-AS]

Quote: Muvka

Then, according to this criterion, the F-35 does not belong to the 5th generation, because it has a significantly lower thrust ratio than the T-50 with the current engines ...

I didn’t care what happened with f-35. I want our aviation to be reliable and competitive.
So that there are no such tragedies as in the Pushkin District, when the aces fly on air trash, and the disasters are not attributed to the "strokes" of the pilots.
It is necessary to make our government work, and not to rave about urrya-patriotism and numerous "peremogs", but to raise the aviation industry at least to the level of the USSR in the 70-80s.

[Muvka]

Quote: PHANTOM-AS

Quote: Muvka

Then, according to this criterion, the F-35 does not belong to the 5th generation, because it has a significantly lower thrust ratio than the T-50 with the current engines ...

I didn’t care what happened with f-35. I want our aviation to be reliable and competitive.
So that there are no such tragedies as in the Pushkin District, when the aces fly on air trash, and the disasters are not attributed to the "strokes" of the pilots.
It is necessary to make our government work, and not to rave about urrya-patriotism and numerous "peremogs", but to raise the aviation industry at least to the level of the USSR in the 70-80s.

Those. the pilot could not have a stroke, and it was because of the engines that the pilot was found with an unexploded parachute? Or according to your ace from aces could not catapult?

[PHANTOM-AS]

Quote: Muvka

Those. the pilot could not have a stroke, and it was because of the engines that the pilot was found with an unexploded parachute? Or according to your ace from aces could not catapult?

http://topwar.ru/96716-smi-prichinoy-krusheniya-su-27-stal-insult-u-pilota.html

[NEXUS]

Quote: PHANTOM-AS

It is necessary to make our government work, and not to rave about urrya-patriotism and numerous "peremogs", but to raise the aviation industry at least to the level of the USSR in the 70-80s.

Work is underway and this is visible. But nothing will appear at the click of a finger. And any new developments, accompanied by errors and miscalculations, cannot be avoided. It is important that the car was brought to a series, with a good modernization reserve.

[Come on]

You have an interesting logic - it is not clear why, but you claim that the F-35, which has already been put into service, has made about 200 and is now actively mastering weapons and tactics, in your opinion a raw shit machine. But the PAK FA, which is in the only one, with huge restrictions (the choice of weapons is incomprehensible, not to mention the development of use, a temporary engine, etc.), a pre-production copy, you have "brought to mind" with a "good modernization reserve". Hats-caps ..

[NEXUS]

Quote: Yeah, well.

it’s not clear why, but you say that the F-35, which has already been put into service, has made about 200 pieces and is now actively developing weapons and tactics,

Adopted? And from this place in more detail, please. He went through the commission and all the shortcomings were eliminated?
Active development of the budget is the place to be.

Quote: Yeah, well.

Your raw shit machine.

Well, why the shit then? If the shit flew, it would be hard to live. And the F-35 is a crude platform that has to be stomped for at least 3 years before the normal result. What’s more, it’s not my words, but the developers’s decision.

Quote: Yeah, well.

And here is the PAK FA, which is the only

Nothing that there are already 8 of them? And the 8th pre-production.

Quote: Yeah, well.

with huge limitations (the choice of weapons is incomprehensible, not to mention the development of use, a temporary engine, etc.)

And with what limitations can you find out? The arsenal for the PAK FA is ready ... why did you get the idea that the weapons are unclear? From what the media did not announce? Work on the arsenal for the T-50 was carried out in parallel with the work on the fighter.
As for the temporary engine, even with this engine, all the requirements for the 5th generation are met, and even a record for rate of climb is set.

Quote: Yeah, well.

you have "brought to mind

The pre-production prototype means the car is ready for the series!

Quote: Yeah, well.

Hats, caps ..

No, a statement of what is happening.

[Come on]

Quote: NEXUS

Adopted? And from this place in more detail, please. He went through the commission and all the shortcomings were eliminated?
Active development of the budget is the place to be.

The US Marine Corps is already practicing tactics and the use of weapons. And something that needs to be eliminated or improved is necessary even for small arms, even after being adopted. Holland and Denmark allocate a budget for the purchase. What does budget development have to do with it? Do you seriously believe that Russian realities are possible in Western countries? With so many commissions and all sorts of centers of power, like the opposition, for example, the media and public opinion, etc.? I doubt that at least one $ goes to the side, in private accounts in offshore and the like.

Here, read the news on the F-35

https://www.f35.com/news

Quote: NEXUS

Well, why the shit then? If the shit flew, it would be hard to live. And the F-35 is a crude platform that has to be stomped for at least 3 years before the normal result. What’s more, it’s not my words, but the developers’s decision.

At least, judging by the lack of disasters and the collapse of the F-35, then probably a more reliable machine in the sense of flight characteristics, has not been in history yet. And the penguin flew a lot of hours .. Well, improvements, again, it depends on many factors, as for example the introduction of new technologies, which we say 5 years ago were not there.

Quote: NEXUS

Nothing that there are already 8 of them? And the 8th pre-production.

How can the first 8 be used for their intended purpose, when it is simply a development of technology, rather than combat units? These are not 8 ready T-50s, one was tested on one, the other on the other. What does the whole hemorrhoid still lie ahead, such as the use of weapons and tactics, confirmation of all the declared performance characteristics. So far, the T-50s have been taught to fly, which the F-35 has long been behind.

Quote: NEXUS

And with what limitations can you find out? The arsenal for PAK FA is ready ... where did you get the idea that the weapons are unclear? From what the media have not voiced?

Big doubts about the "readiness" of the arsenal for the PAK-FA. Where is this confirmed? When the first, crude T-50 came out just now, with avionics from the SU-35 and other "temporary" items (like the same weapons from the Su-35). Those early 7 units are not combat units, but flying laboratories for mastering certain nodes and technologies, they are hardly capable of fighting. As soon as Pak Fa is taught the stated performance characteristics, not only will everyone immediately recognize it, but will also see it.

Quote: NEXUS

The pre-production prototype means the car is ready for the series!

The raw, pre-production version is ready, which is a big shift of course. But now the "finishing" of all systems in a bundle will only begin. This pre-production so far almost all of the insides of the Su-35 consists of radars and weapons. Then we must also wait for the reaction of other supposedly interested countries, such as India, China, Vietnam, for example. After all, it is not enough to bring the car to mind, it needs to be financed somehow. And without a sufficient number of Pak Fa in the Russian Aerospace Forces, its combat effectiveness is very doubtful. Those 12 pieces that MO ordered are not even impressive.

[vv3]

I have served for a long time in aviation and have long concluded that wanting and being able are different concepts, I was taught to evaluate a military aircraft from "iron" and not listen to fairy tales from scientists and erudites. And even more often, the combat power does not depend on the capabilities of the aircraft, but on the ground And here is a complete virgin land ... The F-35 is a very serious enemy, it has no significant drawbacks, the Americans just swung too much and even with their computing base, not everything has yet been implemented ... The T-50 is not yet a combat aircraft, and a beautiful expensive toy with a set of fabulous properties that we all want to believe in. With iron it is all right, but with brains, sorry for the slang, not very ... And a breakthrough here, given our computing base, is not expected. Whether we like it or not, this is a fact, and nothing can be done about it. The operating modes of all systems will be simplified, brought to real completion, and this is correct. We can do what we can. The series will be small, and then in ten, twenty years, maybe we'll catch up ... This is just one type of weapon, not a miracle. ..THE MAIN question is combat information control systems, of course after nuclear weapons !!!

[vv3]

The fifth generation airplane is, first of all, the advanced link of the information system for conducting modern warfare. We do not have an information combat system and we cannot speak about the advanced link. All other properties are secondary and are designed to make this information link as efficient as possible. Everything is clear , And the engine and your power supply is not to do with it. In the eyes of others, a speck of dust, but ....

[33 Watcher]

Quote: vv3

The fifth generation airplane is, first of all, the advanced link of the information system for conducting modern warfare. We do not have an information combat system and we cannot speak about the advanced link. All other properties are secondary and are designed to make this information link as efficient as possible. Everything is clear , And the engine and your power supply is not to do with it. In the eyes of others, a speck of dust, but ....

Well gentlemen! I don’t even know the right ... Confused ... But it's enchanting! This is masterpiece!
That's what you want, but I think it is worth applause!

[sivuch]

Shaw, it became envious? Not everyone is given the opportunity to express it

[33 Watcher]

Quote: sivuch

Shaw, it became envious? Not everyone is given the opportunity to express it

Well yes. Such:

Quote: vv3

Everything is clear to everyone

I here myself, did not allow

[AleksPol]

It’s interesting, but it’s not Gridasov’s spill?

[Corsair]

Quote: AleksPol

It’s interesting, but it’s not Gridasov’s spill?

no, no, Gridasov would say about qualitatively different materials, other types of energy, and generally the plane’s motion scheme, some fields, vertical take-off due to antigravity (lasers are smasers inside the fields that exclude dispersion) - and this already pulls some kind of plane 8-9th generation.

[GSH-18]

It is with the advent of this fighter that we can say that the T-50, as a combat unit, has gained a real face and is ready for mass production in the interests of the VKS ”

So that is all Then only a series!

[Skif83]

Yes, all this is clear that the F-35 ... but the engine refinement 10-11 years ???
Will they still be needed in 10 years? And if the technique was "brought" in such terms during the Second World War?
The thought arises that with the shouts of "URYA-A-A-A!" everything is all right, but reality is somehow not very ...

[St Petrov]

in the fact that we get a full-fledged 5th generation airplane in 11 years, in this you saw grace?

from the promised land the urapatriots are not prevented from rejoicing in the wunderwafle f-35 because of the presence of defects.
And they defend their position on all issues.
It is not shameful for a Jew to be a patriot, but ours are constantly dipped in guano?

Stop practicing self-flagellation. This is the most ridiculous and stupid feature of the Russian people.

And with the words cheers-patriot then I want to ask, what kind of patriot are you if not cheers?
A sobbing patriot?
Weeping and suffering from excessive realism?

Not good, like Solzhenitsyn Alexander Isaevich? sick of throwing this word - urapatriot.

Equalizer ё%; # No.

[PHANTOM-AS]

Quote: s-t Petrov

It is not shameful for a Jew to be a patriot, but ours are constantly dipped in guano?

--------

Quote: s-t Petrov

No. Just wrote an article.

In principle, such articles can be written every day and get a piece of bread for it. Journalists

-------------------

Are you talking to yourself, discussing, disproving, overthrowing, praising, criticizing ?!

[St Petrov]

another smile and your comment will not be so dull.

Oppositionist

[Aaron Zawi]

Quote: c-Petrov

from the promised land the urapatriots are not prevented from rejoicing in the wunderwafle f-35 because of the presence of defects.
And they defend their position on all issues.
It is not shameful for a Jew to be a patriot, but ours are constantly dipped in guano?

Allow me. What does it have to do with cheers or not cheers? The F-35 flies on its own engine, with its own avionics, with weapons already developed for the internal compartment. The remaining problems relate only to the reliability of the software, and not to the strength or problems with avionics. Such problems as the PR is installed will subsequently occur in the T-50. Everything is like everyone else.

[Operator]

F-35 The penguin is still in the status of a training aircraft and, in the opinion of the chairman of the US Senate Armed Forces Committee, will never withdraw from this status.

[Aaron Zawi]

Quote: Operator

F-35 The penguin is still in the status of a training aircraft and, in the opinion of the chairman of the US Senate Armed Forces Committee, will never withdraw from this status.

The sleep of reason.

[insular]

Quote: Aron Zaavi

F-35 flies on a native engine, with native avionics, with weapons already developed for the internal compartment

What does it mean not relatives? On PAKFA, are the engines of electrical tape bolted? No way to cruise supersonic? The range is not enough? Thrust ratio is not enough? And with what do you compare?
And here is Hooray-patriotism, if even with the engines of the first stage the plane is quite among the top five?
Everything else is false mockery and pulling facts.
And if it’s completely honest: what about the F-35’s cruising supersonic engine with native engines? How is it with the 5th generation?

You ought to sit on the priest evenly with your flag and not buzz about "non-native". We rejoice at OUR, (our!) Five, which is getting closer to the series. We (I) are delighted that work is underway on a new engine that will truly outperform analogue engines. OUR engine. And we rejoice at the current, OUR first stage engine, because it is a deep modernization of OUR time-tested engine. And every citizen of the Russian Federation has a reason to be proud because an aircraft of the 5th generation can be CREATED (and not bought) by not every country, especially a country in technological isolation.

So gospada "former compatriots", if you defend your PURCHASE - your right. But our ACHIEVEMENT is to judge after creating an analogue.

[Bayonet]

Quote: s-t Petrov

And with the words cheers-patriot then I want to ask, what kind of patriot are you if not cheers?

The meaning of the word Hooray-patriotism according to Ephraim:
Hooray-patriotism - Recklessly arrogant, baseless, boastful, false patriotism.

The meaning of the word Ur-patriotism according to Ozhegov:
Cheers-patriotism - Flamboyant and noisy patriotism

[poquello]

Quote: PHANTOM-AS

Or is it important for you to settle down by reading the article diagonally?

maybe I’m translating it for you: an airplane with the parameters which it plans to finally be in Moscow will be at 25 m, an airplane meeting the requirements of the technical specifications is ready for the series

[PHANTOM-AS]

Quote: poquello

aircraft meeting the requirements of the technical specifications is ready for the series

Translate into fig read carefully.

Article."The installation lot is at least 12 vehicles, that is, one squadron. They do not include fighter aircraft that are currently undergoing a test phase. That is, in 2017, in the interests of the aerospace forces, completely new combat vehicles that meet the stage of military tests will be built and deliveredafter which it will be possible to talk about expanding procurement, ”said the head of the Center for Analysis of Strategies and Technologies (AST Center) Ruslan Pukhov.

[poquello]

Quote: PHANTOM-AS

Quote: poquello

aircraft meeting the requirements of the technical specifications is ready for the series

Translate into fig read carefully.

Article."The installation lot is at least 12 vehicles, that is, one squadron. They do not include fighter aircraft that are currently undergoing a test phase. That is, in 2017, in the interests of the aerospace forces, completely new combat vehicles that meet the stage of military tests will be built and deliveredafter which it will be possible to talk about expanding procurement, ”said the head of the Center for Analysis of Strategies and Technologies (AST Center) Ruslan Pukhov.

and what did you see there? a new squadron will be bought, it will determine where and how much to stick

[Voyager]

Dear!

Before you start panic, you should carefully check the information you read. The article contains a mistake. At the moment, the PAK FA is powered by engines NOT from the Su-35 and these are NOT 117C engines, respectively. At the moment there are engines of the so-called "product 117", which are superior to engines from the Su-35 on all fronts and, moreover, they are engines 5th generation. Aircraft and its engines ready. And the fact that in the future the engines of the second stage will be even better - well, is this really a cause for concern and indignation? No.

These problems with the confusion of product names have already existed for a long time, and in my opinion, those comrades who give such interviews, as well as comrades who in their posts allow themselves such shoals, need to be driven away.

[Muvka]

Quote: Voyager

Dear!

Before you start panic, you should carefully check the information you read. The article contains a mistake. At the moment, the PAK FA is powered by engines NOT from the Su-35 and these are NOT 117C engines, respectively. At the moment there are engines of the so-called "product 117", which are superior to engines from the Su-35 on all fronts and, moreover, they are engines 5th generation. Aircraft and its engines ready. And the fact that in the future the engines of the second stage will be even better - well, is this really a cause for concern and indignation? No.

These problems with the confusion of product names have already existed for a long time, and in my opinion, comrades who give such interviews as well as comrades who in their posts allow themselves such shoals should be driven away.

I will add a little:
AL-41F1 [edit | edit wiki text]
Unlike jet engines of the previous generation, despite the scheme similar to AL-31F,

AL-41F1 (Product 117) consists of 80% new parts. The main ones are:

low pressure compressor
high pressure compressor
plasma ignition system [4]
combustion chamber [4]
compressor with a diameter increased to 932 mm [3]
afterburner combustion chamber
full-view thrust vector control, ± 16 ° in any direction, and ± 20 ° of the plane [5]
digital control system with elements of distributed parameters
Thanks to these measures, the thrust force of the AL-41F1 engine increased significantly: 15000 kgf vs. 12500 kgf of the AL-31F, the service life increased (4000 hours versus 1000) and the reliability increased, fuel consumption decreased [3]. For the first time, a plasma ignition system was implemented, thanks to which the possibility of an oxygen-free engine start was provided.

[NEXUS]

Quote: PHANTOM-AS

in the fact that we get a full-fledged 5th generation airplane in 11 years, in this you saw grace?

And do not remind you how much was brought to the Raptor series?

Quote: PHANTOM-AS

Or is it important for you to settle down by reading the article diagonally?

The 8th prototype, this is the last step to the series. That is, the deadlines for the series will not be shifted. Why not enjoy it?

[Amnestied]

Quote: PHANTOM-AS

Where did you see the good news?
in the fact that we get a full-fledged 5th generation airplane in 11 years, in this you saw grace?
Or is it important for you to settle down by reading the article diagonally?
Stop blowing soap pusiri, dear!

I am no longer surprised at the pathological criticism (cretinism) of some individuals on the "ax". Shit the achievements of your own country is so "patriotic", beat the "uryakalok" the new slogan of the liberoids! Everyone's personal opinion is shit. For the right thing, mine - the enemy will be defeated, victory will be ours! Because when and if Sledgehammer does not know how to think, she knows how to think: for example, that a discussion, that is, a dialogue, is just an opportunity to point out to an opponent who thinks a lot with convolutions of cellulite on his butt - his place is in this country, that is, on pa.r.she.

[tilovaykrisa]

Yes, the glider is not a plane yet, without engines there will be 4 ++ but not the 5th generation, 11 years on the development of engines for such a period under Stalin would have leaned against the wall.

[Alexander Romanov]

Quote: tilovaykrisa

Yes, the glider is not a plane yet, without engines there will be 4 ++ but not the 5th generation, 11 years on the development of engines for such a period under Stalin would have leaned against the wall.

Under Stalin, for a post like yours, you would have been imprisoned without the right to correspond.

[tilovaykrisa]

and all VO for disclosing military secrets to the heap.

[silver_roman]

I can imagine the situation: such an F-35 flies and sees a T-50 next to it, sweat creeps down my back, then this: "fuuuh, this is not the 5th generation, it has engines of the 1st stage" and relaxed!
In fact, for the successful combat use of the current engines is more than enough, the other thing is that the new engines will give even more advantages!
I am much more worried about his weapons, namely, RVV-SD and DB, AFAR operation, glider strength.

[Alexander Romanov]

Quote: PHANTOM-AS

in the fact that we get a full-fledged 5th generation airplane in 11 years, in this you saw grace?

And if, according to some estimates, they will be ready for them, in 30 years, will you believe this too?

[oblako]

For 30 years, it makes no sense to build an engine for an already flying airplane ... everything will become obsolete. And there is no precedent for this in history. Apart from direct-flow engines, but this is for devices of a completely different class ...

[GSH-18]

Media: T-50 is almost ready to launch in the series.

Quote: PHANTOM-AS

Where did you see the good news?
in the fact that we get a full-fledged 5th generation airplane in 11 years, in this you saw grace?

Actually, 11 years for the production of a 5th generation aircraft from scratch is still a record. If you don’t know, then the F-22 amerikoses did longer and the F35 is still not officially adopted, and they turned out to be much more expensive and worse in real service (it flies only from specially equipped airfields). So do not need to create a pvnik out of the blue. We have everything along the T-50. We look forward to staging the first production batch in combat units

[GSH-18]

in 2017, in the interests of the Aerospace Forces, completely new combat vehicles that meet the requirements of the technical specifications will be built and delivered, which will have to go through the military test phase, after which it will be possible to talk about expanding procurement, ”said the head of the Center for Analysis of Strategies and Technologies (AST Center) Ruslan Pukhov.

So that's great. Good news

[GSH-18]

with our strategic partner in the field of military-technical cooperation - India, but also offering it to Algeria and Vietnam. Both countries pursue an independent military-technical policy and have their own funds for the purchase of modern weapons. Thanks to the alliance with them, the creation of the T-50 can be made cheaper by making it a mass fighter, ”said Pukhov.

First you need to stir up yourself for yourself, and then trade export options! It's my opinion.

[maiman61]

Forgot when we rejoiced at every aircraft released for a year?

[Alexander Romanov]

Quote: maiman61

Forgot when we rejoiced at every aircraft released for a year?

About 5 years ago it was.

[NEXUS]

Quote: Alexander Romanov

About 5 years ago it was.

Back in the 13th, this was observed.

[Alexander Romanov]

Quote: NEXUS

Back in the 13th, this was observed.

Out of the window?
The Russian Air Force will receive more than 200 aircraft and helicopters ...
topwar.ru ›17559-vvs-rossii-poluchat ... 2013-godu.html
This was stated by the commander in chief of the Russian Air Force, Major General Viktor Bondare. ... 200 aircraft in 2013! Maybe so, but I have doubts! Divide 200 by 12 and get about 16 planes and helicopters each month!
Russian Air Force will receive a hundred new aircraft "Military ...
topwar.ru ›27186-vvs-rossii-poluchat-sotnyu-novyh ...
The Russian Air Force in 2014 will receive about a hundred new combat aircraft. ... According to him, in 2012, 35 different types of aircraft were handed over to the military, and in 2013, the UAC should supply the Russian Air Force with 60 new aircraft.
April 23 2013

[zloybond]

I hope it will not be equal for the service of YAK 130))) when only a condo saving from overheating in the parking lot, unlike the French, for example, drives up to the kamaz .... and overheating on a sunny day in a hot climate cuts out all the electronics through the lantern .... and it is necessary to overload everything all the fuck again ((((... and so on ...

[yehat]

it’s not clear what good is in the news
They promised to complete the Type 30 engine, postponed the deadlines several times, and now they again postpone it and immediately for 9-10 years
avionics and weapons worked out to a large extent on other dry planes. so I perceive the news as negative, because nothing positive has been reported.
I wonder if they cope with children's defects like damage to the case.
ps without an engine type 30 Pak fa loses its main advantage over the f-22 - a paradise of strategic proportions.

[mihai_md2003]

Exactly the same thought visited me all the time they were saying that there will be a new engine, and then they started talking about the 25 year old kapets. And what will happen to the aircraft released by that time will add them to 4 +++++?

[shooter18]

I hope they will not immediately sell it!

[CORNET]

To test them in hostilities (at least approximately ..) And there you can shout and Hurray ...

[NEXUS]

Quote: shooter18

I hope they will not immediately sell it!

They won’t drive it for export yet ... Indians want a double and not a single option, as we are making a car for ourselves, and this has been discussed for a long time.

[oborzevatel]

Quote: Byshido_dis

Very good news!!! Just do not stop ahead!

What good is that?

According to various estimates, the PAK FA will receive these engines only in 2025-2027. “Only then will it be possible to say that the T-50 became a real fifth-generation aircraft,”

[St Petrov]

Why articles where a little more is written and here it is. here we’ll also build one glider and it will already meet all the requirements according to the technical specifications and so on.

Maybe it has already been built? No. Just wrote an article.

In principle, such articles can be written every day and get a piece of bread for it. Journalists

[Berkut24]

Walk through the specialized forums and learn a lot. The last plane that took off is already fully equipped with avionics. In addition, previous specimens had many problems associated with "torsional deformation" - continuous experiments were carried out with composites. This news indicates that the problems with the load on the case have been finally solved. Because the problems with the case were solved, then the problem with the equipment for its assembly was also solved. How the problems with armament were solved. In theory, the plane is ready to "pass its final exams."
Yes, there are still problems with the second stage engine, but even with the current engine, the aircraft may well demonstrate "Kuzkin's mother" to all existing and potential competitors of the 5th generation.
I think that the engine of the second stage will be brought and tested exactly to the first modernization of the machine.
And yes - the T-50 meets all the requirements of the technical specifications, which Bondarev has already stated, with the exception of the engine, for which Sukhoi is not responsible. But under the terms of the contract, production cars were supposed to take up duty on the 117C anyway.
No panic or disturbance - all polymers are in place.

[AdekvatNICK]

AL-41F1 (Product 117) is a Russian aviation high-temperature turbojet dual-circuit engine with an afterburner and an all-aspect-control thrust vector of the “first stage”, developed by NPO Saturn for promising fifth-generation fighters. It is based on engines for 4th generation fighter aircraft AL-31F, AL-31FP with a controlled thrust vector and an engine that did not go into a series for fifth-generation fighter aircraft AL-41F, created for the MiG 1.44 project.

[xtur]

> Based on engines for 4th generation fighters AL-31F, AL-31FP with a controlled thrust vector and the AL-41F engine for fifth generation fighters, which was not produced for the MiG 1.44 project.

I had no idea that the T-50 gnawed at the MiG to such an extent. In essence, it is even worse than the Bulava story.

[GSH-18]

Quote: xtur

I had no idea that the T-50 gnawed at the MiG to such an extent. In essence, this is even worse than the story with Bulava

What does the Mig have to do with ??? Migu generally need to click less and do more business! Engines produces NGO "Saturn" and offers them to everyone. Instantly did not want (or could not), sold to "Sukhoi"!

[iouris]

99,9% not 100.

[AlexSam]

"... but also offering it to Algeria and Vietnam ..."

what really there, let's immediately offer China!

[engineer74]

According to various estimates, these engines will receive the PAK FA only in 2025-2027. “Only then can we say that the T-50 has become a real fifth-generation aircraft,” he added.

Either strategic disinformation, or stupidity ... For one mention of such terms in the UEC, you can stay without a bonus! Lying yksperd!

[silver_roman]

Quote: engineer74

Lying yksperd!

Just the same timing is logical. Bringing to mind a completely new engine is an extremely difficult task. Initially, it was clear that the deadlines for 2020 were nonsense.

[engineer74]

Quote: silver_roman

Quote: engineer74

Lying yksperd!

Just the same timing is logical. Bringing to mind a completely new engine is an extremely difficult task. Initially, it was clear that the deadlines for 2020 were nonsense.

Nonsense for whom? For you? And for us this "nonsense" looks like production assignments!
Generation 5 engines are taking "a little" longer than you think! Rumors about the collapse of this industry in Russia are greatly exaggerated and, believe me, by the 20th year there will be a serial engine on a serial aircraft!

[silver_roman]

Quote: engineer74

Generation 5 engines are taking "a little" longer than you think!

Given the theme of the 5th generation in our country, I think the theme of the engine for him is about the same age.
But considering that the AL-41F was for the MiG-1.44, then another engine is being made for the PAK FA and its design is not so old.
Talking with different people with the military-industrial complex, I can say, I quote them.
And the timeline for 2020 is not realistic. I do not know in which industry you work, but I have other information. True or not, another question. Time will tell.
I really hope that the truth is closer to your deadlines, and not voiced in the article.

[engineer74]

I can explain: The engine for the MiG-1.44 (1.42) is an attempt to make an engine with the parameters of the 4th generation from materials and technologies of the 5th generation, it worked in principle, but it is very difficult and very expensive. The "second stage" engine for the T-50 is made of appropriate materials using appropriate technologies, and much less problems are expected with it. Cat then so ...

[silver_roman]

Those. second stage engine - will the 5th generation engine be fundamentally new? It will not be a refinement of existing units?
And there were problems with the AL-31 family and subsequent?
Thank you for the info.

[x.andvlad]

Development continues. But, as always, engines are a weak point. Not too early going to sell abroad?

[Igor39]

Almost ready, is it not ready yet or is it ready? A flightless Fe 35 is already more than a hundred.

[Wedmak]

And the flightless Fe 35 is already more than a hundred.

Which really have not yet been debugged, with buggy software, hardware problems, etc. They themselves already acknowledge that they have in vain launched a raw fighter in a series. But when everything is debugged (they have no where to go), you still need to re-equip all these 200 machines, replace software, parts, etc. Sawed into grandmas!

[Igor39]

So, and PAK FA only by 2030 will be the 5th generation and the engines will have to be changed, too, the grandmas will fly away.

[Muvka]

Quote: Igor39

So, and PAK FA only by 2030 will be the 5th generation and the engines will have to be changed, too, the grandmas will fly away.

By your logic, the F-35 will then not become the 5th generation at all :)

[Igor39]

Well, so it is written in the article now with intermediate engines, and engines of the 5th generation are expected by 25-27 only, according to our measurement, in the best case, by 2030 the engines will be, read it yourself.

[Muvka]

Quote: Igor39

Well, so it is written in the article now with intermediate engines, and engines of the 5th generation are expected by 25-27 only, according to our measurement, in the best case, by 2030 the engines will be, read it yourself.

Well, the F-35 has a much worse ratio of engine power to aircraft mass than the T-50 with existing engines, which by the way are not the same as on the Su-35.

[silver_roman]

But what do you dislike about the intermediate Al-41F1? he fulfills the condition of the 5th generation, namely cruising supersonic.
According to rumors, the new engine will be 10-15% more powerful and more economical.
It is not uncommon in aviation and other types of troops that subsequent modifications of equipment are equipped with improved / new units and units. Take a look at the first samples of the su-27 and the modern su-35s.
Anyway, during the operation of the T-50, childhood diseases will be identified, which will be corrected in subsequent modifications.

[Wedmak]

As it may be called modernization. But riveting under 200 pieces of frankly raw, not brought to mind planes - is that cool?

[voyaka uh]

"But riveting under 200 pieces of frankly raw, unfinished planes - is that cool?" ///

This is not the first time. . It was the same with the F-16, also brought to mind during use. But, unlike the F-35 (pah-pah - not a single accident in the air), the F-16 fought during the development period by dozens.

[voyaka uh]

There is no need to re-equip anything, replacement of parts is not required.
The software is replaced right at the place of basing the aircraft with a laptop book.

F-35 can fly 250 km with 1,2 MAX without afterburner, as it was
provided for those. task.

[Muvka]

Quote: voyaka uh

There is no need to re-equip anything, replacement of parts is not required.
The software is replaced right at the place of basing the aircraft with a laptop book.

F-35 can fly 250 km with 1,2 MAX without afterburner, as it was
provided for those. task.

Well, the T-50 with the current engines has the same outsourced speed. Just with new ones, it will equal 2,1 M.

[Wedmak]

Excerpt from the article:
Field tests also showed that "a lumbago of the air intake leads to sustained fire due to leakage of hydraulic fluid, and also a lumbago in the area of ​​the bypass flaps of the air intake channel, because of the fuel tanks located around it, leading to catastrophic damage to the airframe." The high likelihood of a fire developing on F-35 family aircraft upon receipt of combat damage or a lightning strike makes them unprecedentedly vulnerable. The problem of resistance to combat damage is so acute that it is urgent to immediately initiate tests for real shelling of an aircraft at a firing range before it begins to enter combat units and before the start of military tests in conditions close to combat ones planned for 2019.
http://www.dogswar.ru/armii-mira/vooryjenie/7668-problemy-istrebiteli.html
Was there a decrease in combat stability in TK?

[voyaka uh]

"lumbago in the air intake due to hydraulic fluid leak,
and also a chamber in the area of ​​the bypass flaps of the air intake channel, "////

Backbone and penetration of the fuselage can not stand now no fighter. There is nothing to be done. Even with damage to the planes the computer somehow copes, keeps the car on the automatic flaps, and getting shells or fragments into the engine system is fatal.

[Wedmak]

and shells or debris entering the engine system are fatal.

Not all, let’s say so. Twin-engine fighters are very tenacious. This is proved by our Su-25, and the American F-18, etc. And as for the F-35, you are right, one engine, the most complicated system of vertical lifting - any damage and all.

[voyaka uh]

Recently there was an article about the legendary MiG-21 - the best
for its time. And - just one engine!
The most common 4th generation F-16 also has one.
Maybe the F-35 will cope with this "problem" (in quotes).

[NEXUS]

Quote: voyaka uh

Recently there was an article about the legendary MiG-21 - the best
for its time. And - just one engine!
The most common 4th generation F-16 also has one.
Maybe the F-35 will cope with this "problem" (in quotes).

All right, say ... just answer me what is the concept of using the 35th?

[voyaka uh]

"what is the concept of using the 35th?" ////

1) A calm passage over air defense at high altitude.
F-16, to break through to the goal you need to fly over
land at an altitude of 50 m - otherwise, knocked down.
I understand that you do not believe in stealth, but still ...
(see, see, see experimentally flying over
different air defense radars, not in theory).
2) F-35 is able to work in a network with ground forces
in real time. For example, a company company saw a target,
made a "touch" on the screen and in a second the pilot can attack her,
without any negotiations and delays. Or, on the contrary, the pilot saw
I’ll turn the target - I poked it on the screen, and the howitzer can immediately shoot there.
F-35 is "sharpened" for autopilot. Autopilot not in a straight line, but with complex
in turns of 0,9 max. The pilot is a weapon operator; he does not need to hold a pen.

[NEXUS]

Quote: voyaka uh

1) A calm passage over air defense at high altitude.

Calm? Sure? But I know, I’m not sure ... maybe somewhere over Iraq or Afghanistan, it’ll completely pass to itself ... but let's say over China, Russia is unlikely ... and it doesn’t matter what its height will be. Moreover, the ceiling is 35 18th ... the most for relatively advanced air defense. Moreover, the argument about his fabulous EPR is very dubious, since it is all declared by the Americans themselves. It is surprising that so few zeros were attributed after the decimal point only.

Quote: voyaka uh

I understand that you do not believe in stealth, but still ...

There is no stealth technology (invisibility), there is a stealth technology. There is no absolute invisibility in principle. And so for me, the rate of mattresses on stealth is wrong. Although it works as a publicity stunt.

Quote: voyaka uh

2) F-35 is able to work in a network with ground forces
in real time.

With dense radio counteraction is also capable? In fact, the 35th can be effective in two cases. The first: with the complete or almost complete suppression of the enemy’s air defense systems. And the second: in the absence of the enemy’s air defense systems in general. Why? For the very reason, the price.

Quote: voyaka uh

F-35 is "sharpened" on autopilot.

So I say, in the absence of enemy air defense.
Therefore, I asked about the concept of using Lightning, as in the process of development and improvements, the concept of the mattresses themselves changed.

[voyaka uh]

We, of course, are famous suckers, but nevertheless: we produce a variety of radars ourselves, plus we have captured and bought in eastern Europe from the former from the Warsaw Pact.
That is, we know how to determine and verify EPR at different frequencies,
and we don’t peck at the theoretical performance characteristics even of our closest allies (trust, but verify).
I already posted: F-35 stealth was tested experimentally by Israel, which at one time determined the choice of the F-35, and not the Saylet Eagle F-15, or F-18, for example.
I knew that you would not believe it, about stealth - and it turned out ...

[NEXUS]

Quote: voyaka uh

I already posted: F-35 stealth was tested experimentally by Israel, which at one time determined the choice of the F-35, and not the Saylet Eagle F-15, or F-18, for example.
I knew that you would not believe it, about stealth - and it turned out ...

I’ll tell you one clever thing, the EPR values ​​of ALL shock mattress aircraft and even promising for the USSR, and then Russia has. It is on the basis of these data that radars and guidance systems, etc. are made ... There is a center for studying this topic in Russia .So how to see, and most importantly, to see these stealth, our air defense, missile defense, and airborne forces knew far in advance. That is why I told you that there is no invisibility, but there is stealth and not in all ranges.

[voyaka uh]

It is believed that the development of a new generation of radar takes 5-10 years.
That is, in Israel it is believed that it is confident to "decipher" what is flying
F-35 will learn in 10 years. Therefore, by then it will be necessary to do
"Argrade" stealth coatings to the next level. And they are thinking about it now.

[NEXUS]

Quote: voyaka uh

It is believed that the development of a new generation of radar takes 5-10 years.

Already now, the development of ROFAR (radio-optical phased antenna array) in KRET is underway, which will replace AFAR ... and all this stealth tinsel will not prevent you from seeing planes, ships and so on with stealth technology. And as I understand it from open sources, studying this the question is, this will happen in the next two to three years (a maximum of 5 years). Does Israel or the United States have such technologies ...
At the same time, for example, our pilot, thanks to ROFAR, will be able to see not only the adversary’s plane at a distance of 500 km, but even see the pilot himself sitting in the cockpit.

[silver_roman]

Quote: NEXUS

Already now, the development of ROFAR (radio-optical phased antenna array) in KRET is underway, which will replace AFAR ... and all this stealth tinsel will not interfere at all

So it seems that the same T-50 has, in addition to the AFAR in the nose, operating in one seemingly X-band, in the wings there are already other radars with other ranges like L. Also, it seems, the rear hemisphere radar, the so-called "smart casing", although this is probably more classic aircraft.

By the way, an account about stealth is generally strange: there were many articles about the fact that this technology was recognized in the USSR as inefficient and abandoned, but then today, whoever can do stealth aircraft today? Although PAK FA possesses it, other qualities of the aircraft are not cut in its favor.
Question to voyaka uh:
You claim to have tested the penguin in practice. Have they been irradiated from all angles? Because, as a rule, its EPR of 0,00000000000 + 100 zeros 1 EPR exactly when irradiated in full face, so to speak.

[NEXUS]

Quote: silver_roman

So it seems that the same T-50 has, in addition to the AFAR in the nose, operating in one seemingly X-band, in the wings there are already other radars with other ranges like L. Also, it seems, the rear hemisphere radar, the so-called "smart casing", although this is probably more classic aircraft.

PAK FA has at least 5 AFAR (possibly more than 5), the complex is called "Protein". By the way, Raptor has one AFAR.

[silver_roman]

so it is: one at a time in the tail and nose, in each wing and probably the sensors in the skin and even 5 pieces come out + OLS, but this is slightly different already.
In defense of the raptor, I will say that its radar is very good.

[yehat]

one? and I read, there are 2 options - with 1 or two + 2 antennas auxiliary, as on the old Su-24 reconnaissance

[voyaka uh]

For an attack aircraft, it’s more important that they aren’t seen from below by air defense radars,
not the enemy fighter’s radar in front.
F-35 was tested on air defense radars. The fact that radars are constantly being improved -
fact. I do not argue with that. But even in stealth they invest a lot of money on research. Most likely, airplanes will have the ability to change their EPR, manipulating all sorts of layers of coatings and sensors to fool missile defense.
There are developments and optically invisible coatings. Those. the case in Yugoslavia when a stealth was shot down by a rocket as directed by an optical sight was taken into account.

[NEXUS]

Quote: voyaka uh

F-35 was tested on air defense radars.

You know, I am absolutely sure that our developers have taken everything into account, and with this in mind, the Irbis, the BEETLE-A, and the Belka perfectly "see" both the "lizard" and Lightning.
And mattresses can advertise stealth technologies and coatings for them for any length of time.

[sivuch]

There was no optics
only P-18 + CHP-125

[Operator]

Why "decipher" a target mark already captured by the radar, which does not respond to "friend or foe" - this is a war, first they will shoot down, and only then they will figure out that they shot down (if there is time).

The contribution of RPMs to the overall reduction of EPR is less than purely layout solutions: elimination of right angles at the interfaces of glider elements, rounding of the extremities, curved air intakes or radar blockers, metallization of the cabin lamp, 180 rotation of all optoelectronic sensors in the idle position, radar antenna orientation away from external radiation, the absence of surface defects of the airframe, zigzag edges of the connectors, etc.

And RPM is simple as a nail - a chemical compound of iron oxide with other metal oxides in the form of a powder mixed with a polymer binder. Development is carried out only in the direction of increasing the thermal and mechanical stability of the RPM.

[yehat]

I will surprise you. For example, in India, old s-125 missiles are in service. They perfectly see f-35, because their radar has such frequencies. So how many years will it take to reproduce these devices?

[Operator]

"Quiet passage over the air defense at high altitude" - yeah, of course, but what about the meter-long "Sky-M" and "Niobium-SV" radars?

Feel the difference in EPR of the AGM-129 ALCM cruise missile in three ranges (data from the Almaz Central Design Bureau), the front hemisphere at a perspective of + -45 degrees:
- centimeter range 0,02-0,05 sq.m
- decimeter range 0,05-0,1 sq.m
- meter range 1-1,4 sq.m.

By the way, in the armed forces of the USA and Israel there are no meter radars

[voyaka uh]

"By the way, in the armed forces of the United States and Israel there are no meter radars" ////

Sure. These are surveillance radars, not air defense. They can say "something is flying there."
And transfer to the S-300 radar air defense.
Those will say: "Thanks, but we don't see anything yet, we are waiting, sir."
And then they will say: "We see, but we cannot aim the rocket yet, let the adversary come closer."
And then: "now he is in our centimeter range ... caught, my dear, fire!"

Of course, the adversary-stealth will not be the first to harm the air defense station, he is a gentleman.

[Operator]

Russian meter radars are no longer observable - they are included in the automatic tactical data transmission system, to which the S-400 air defense systems are connected, and their anti-aircraft missiles are equipped with a radio command guidance system and an active GPS - the coordinates of the target received by the meter radar are transmitted to the missile until until her GOS captures the target.

The decimeter and centimeter radars of the S-400 air defense system at this time track only immediate threats to themselves, such as attacks with gliding bombs or anti-radar missiles. All sorts of "Knights" and other smaller air defense systems, which are also connected to the tactical data transmission system, are plowed into the self-defense of the radar.

And what can the F-35 do against a meter radar that sees it beyond 100 and more than km: if it launches a planning bomb or missile, it will be knocked down (it’s not for nothing that the new air defense systems are called air defense / missile defense).

So the only thing that remains F-35 is a good old breakthrough to the target at a low altitude below the level of the radio horizon of the meter radar (which are only ground-based due to the large size of the antenna) and the air defense radar.

And then Su-35С and T-50 will come in handy, which in simple weather conditions will find F-35 with their OLS at a distance of 50 km, and in difficult weather conditions with their radars at a distance of 150 km.

[yehat]

what nafig stealth "over" air defense can be?
stealth technology only allows you to approach at low altitude up to a distance when the aircraft can use weapons. nor any "at high altitude" or "will pass the air defense", in principle, is not expected, because the only result of such behavior is an attempt to eject.
stealth - this is not invisibility in all ranges, but only a decrease in the target’s detection range under strictly observed conditions of the irradiation geometry. At the same time, I add that only passive equipment should work on the plane, which makes it extremely vulnerable to all kinds of surprises.
For example, if drying was accidentally flown 30-40 kilometers and spotted by a penguin optoelectronic station, he will never know what is under attack until the rocket hits him.

[sivuch]

You tell this to Uncle Misha (Zeiger) from Voronline. He convinces everyone that 2 dvigla is good, 1 is bad. Almost according to Orwell -2 legs are bad, 4 legs are good.
In reality, everything is somehow more complicated. When Belyakov and Waldenberg convinced the military that the 29th should be made 2-engine, one of the main arguments was that it would be enough to lose aircraft in accidents in peacetime.

[silver_roman]

I’m not sure about the lumbago, but as you know, one of the prototypes, like the 4th (or 5th) T-50, had a fire. Nevertheless, the aircraft sat down, having received very significant damage.
And on the F-35, problems are not limited to lumbago. There is a problem with vibrations, problems with software, many systems sometimes simply do not work.
The Americans really set extremely difficult tasks for the F-35.

[yehat]

I recall that the Mig-17 returned to the base more than once after several hits of the gun in the area of ​​the ONE engine. This is the case for the protocol.

[Operator]

250 km on 1,2 M - this is the whole 12 minutes of flight (and then it crashes)

That’s why this nonsense should be sent from koment to koment, when everyone knows the thrust-to-weight ratio of the T-50 and its 1,5 times the big off-speed supersonic speed?

[voyaka uh]

I did not say a bad word against the T-50 .
Naturally, a fighter gaining dominance in the air
speed should be greater than that of the shock.

I’m not stopping you from massively posting the praise of the Su-35

[Operator]

I respect you for the objectivity and uniqueness in this quality among your Israeli colleagues at the HE.

But for an impact F-35 with a low thrust ratio, supersonic flight does not solve anything - for him the main thing is to fly as far as possible (with air defense) or with a greater combat load (in the absence of air defense) and return. And this can only be done at subsonic cruising speed.

The Penguin will not master the air battles at 600 km / h, nor will it escape at supersonic speed from the Su-27 and Su-35С, not to mention the T-50.

[GSH-18]

Quote: Wedmak

Which really have not yet been debugged, with buggy software, hardware problems, etc.

This is the American version of the simultaneous release of a beta version in order to obtain more information during operation for correction and correction, and most importantly for the dough! The option is pleasant with useful. They can afford it. Dough in the states a lot. We are going our own way, and so far quite successfully

[Wedmak]

And what name is assigned to him, interesting? SU-31?

[Muvka]

T-50? Or the Su-50.

[Igor39]

Su 27 was in the prototype T 10, I think it will be SU 39

[Wedmak]

I think it will be XU NUMX

Su-39 is a Su-25-based attack aircraft. A small series was. Numbers finished on Su-Xnumx, experimental now. 47 was not a number, 31 was an even number, it was either for bombers or for passengers. So there must be something after 50 though.

[silver_roman]

or they can start on the basis of Almaty. Type su-16. It wasn’t either.

[NEXUS]

Quote: Muvka

T-50? Or the Su-50.

Perhaps the "name" will be, in the manner of the SU-47 "Berkut" ... somehow, for example, "Sapsan", "Korshun" or something else ..

[GSH-18]

Quote: Wedmak

And what name is assigned to him, interesting? SU-31?

I think the name will be beautiful, like the T-50 itself

[INTA_VEGA]

They would rather leave the T-50. Vaughn "Armata", it seems, continues to respond to the name of the R&D topic. Moreover, the name "T-50" has already been steamed up with might and main.

[AVA77]

No panic, there is a glider, there is electronics, there is a plane, the engines will be. So far, and so in the lead!

[Voyager]

Yes, there are already engines, I wrote above which :) alarmists live)

[AVA77]

Thank you, I am now in the know.

[Stabilization]

Aircraft turbojet dual-circuit engine with afterburner and controlled thrust vector (SWT) of generation 4 ++, created by NPO Saturn by order of Sukhoi Design Bureau OJSC for Su-35S fighter, is one of the Product 117 engine options.

The 117C engines differ from the AL-31F in increased thrust (14500 kgf vs. 12500), longer overhaul life (4000 hours versus 1000), lower fuel consumption, controlled by the thrust vector, and also allow the aircraft to develop supersonic speed without using afterburner, which is one of the basic requirements for a fifth generation fighter.

[Muvka]

Quote: Stabilization

Aircraft turbojet dual-circuit engine with afterburner and controlled thrust vector (SWT) of generation 4 ++, created by NPO Saturn by order of Sukhoi Design Bureau OJSC for Su-35S fighter, is one of the Product 117 engine options.

The 117C engines differ from the AL-31F in increased thrust (14500 kgf vs. 12500), longer overhaul life (4000 hours versus 1000), lower fuel consumption, controlled by the thrust vector, and also allow the aircraft to develop supersonic speed without using afterburner, which is one of the basic requirements for a fifth generation fighter.

117 without C, which on the T-50 has 15000 kgs.

[kolkulon]

Now all the enemies will sing: “But Bondarev said ... where do you want quilted jackets up to the fifth generation!” There is not enough evil.

[Wolka]

the faster they are launched into the series, even with engines similar to those of the Su-35, the better, and by 2025-2027. something from the sixth generation will be ready ...

[Eugen]

A good glider and weak engines are a bad car,
a bad glider and good engines are a bad car.
Only in the case of a successful glider and good engines can one count on an advantage over the technique of the future potential adversary, and not over the technique of previous periods. It is a pity that such forecasts are made by the timing of the appearance of engines. The glider appeared earlier than the engine for more than 10 years! And the main question is whether it is possible to hold out in favorites this time and even more. (is there another sense? The car is outdated without having received its top engine?)

[Muvka]

Quote: Eugen

A good glider and weak engines are a bad car,
a bad glider and good engines are a bad car.
Only in the case of a successful glider and good engines can one count on an advantage over the technique of the future potential adversary, and not over the technique of previous periods. It is a pity that such forecasts are made by the timing of the appearance of engines. The glider appeared earlier than the engine for more than 10 years! And the main question is whether it is possible to hold out in favorites this time and even more. (is there another sense? The car is outdated without having received its top engine?)

Where did you get the idea that engines are bad? The capacity was increased, the thrust-to-weight ratio was excellent, the overhaul life was 4 times increased. Well, let him eat a little more fuel, with our oil reserves there is no problem at all.

[Eugen]

"Bad" is figuratively, the meaning was a little lower in the text and in the article itself. It is with the new engine that the car will correspond to the fifth generation. There is a technical assignment, there is a requirement for the power plant and the overhaul interval does not yet apply to these points. And about the thrust-to-weight ratio, the article also indicates that a large one is required.

[Eugen]

Quote: Muvka

Where did you get the idea that engines are bad? The capacity was increased, the thrust-to-weight ratio was excellent, the overhaul life was 4 times increased. Well, let him eat a little more fuel, with our oil reserves there is no problem at all.

By the way, I did not call them bad.

[Operator]

The T-50 at the moment has no rivals in the fifth generation - the Penguin sucks, and the Raptor is clearly worse in terms of maneuverability, speed and detection tools (lack of OLS).

The situation is even better - the potential adversary has stopped the release of the Raptor, all funding has been allocated to stamping any Penguins, the development program for the 6 generation fighter is missing as a class.

[yehat]

Urya-Putriot you are ours, how am I tired of listening and reading this.
1. Yes, the F-22 is not available, but the Americans ALREADY have 200 aircraft in 2 versions, moreover, in combat units. And how many t50 in combat units? right 0.0001 pieces.
and judging by the pace of orders, the amount in the best forecasts will be equal only after 4-5 years.
so here the advantage is not with us for a long time.
2. Do not blame for what you do not know. They sacrificed range on the F-22 for the sake of improving TTX, and although it is slightly inferior to the T50, it remains quite dangerous even in close combat, and it more than compensates for the lack of an optoelectronic system with a very advanced complex of passive long-range observation combined with a slightly better stealth coefficient. It is worth mentioning the armament - in recent years, the Americans have adopted a number of very not bad missiles of near and medium radius, so this is a rather dangerous machine.

[edeligor]

In my opinion, the proposal to Vietnam and Algeria to pay further costs for the car is to drain the project. About the engines of the 2nd stage with the readiness already in 25-27 years, confirmation of the above. Attention question! We have a new project or SU-35 and the further development of the topic of SU-27 and MIG-29 is our everything ?! Somehow not so, I imagined the further development of our aviation ...

[Muvka]

Quote: edeligor

In my opinion, the proposal to Vietnam and Algeria to pay further costs for the car is to drain the project. About the engines of the 2nd stage with the readiness already in 25-27 years, confirmation of the above. Attention question! We have a new project or SU-35 and the further development of the topic of SU-27 and MIG-29 is our everything ?! Somehow not so, I imagined the further development of our aviation ...

Payment of development costs for FGFA, not T-50. These are slightly different cars. Amers, by your logic, also has no new niche. F-35 is just an evolution of the F-4 theme.

[edeligor]

Quote: Muvka

F-35 is just an evolution of the F-4 theme.

How much! Justify weakly?

[Zaurbek]

The 5th generation heavy fighter cannot become massive. It is expensive to buy, with maintenance. And as correctly written above, the T-50 is more of an Air Force fighter than an attack plane. The cursed F-35 has much more shock capabilities. And do not forget the F-35 (120 cd each) sold voluntarily and compulsorily to the rich countries of Western Europe, Japan and Israel, and we will need to sell the T-50 (also priced at about 100 cd) to India, Vietnam, etc. And these are not the richest customers. A fighter priced at around 50 cd can become massive. Though not fully meeting the 5th generation in terms of visibility, but with avionics and an engine from the T-50.

[NEXUS]

Quote: Zaurbek

and we will need to sell the T-50 (also at a price of about 100 cdoll)

Hindus want to see their FGFA double, and it will be a completely different fighter than our T-50. At the same time, the sale of a heavy fighter for export has never been a mass. 70% of fighter aircraft that they sell is LFI.

[xtur]

> 70% of the fighter aircraft sold is LFI.

this is probably why, in a country with a market economy, they are doing everything to ditch the design bureau that traditionally develops these same LFI - MiG

[NEXUS]

Quote: xtur

this is probably why, in a country with a market economy, they are doing everything to ditch the design bureau that traditionally develops these same LFI - MiG

Already not. We sell MIG-29K to Indians, on the approach of MIG-35 with AFAR ... they are slowly resuscitating the design bureau. There is a modernization of the 31st, and the development of the PAK DP ... in general, it’s not worth burying Mikoyanovtsy.

[Muvka]

Quote: Zaurbek

The 5th generation heavy fighter cannot become massive. It is expensive to buy, with maintenance. And as correctly written above, the T-50 is more of an Air Force fighter than an attack plane. The cursed F-35 has much more shock capabilities. And do not forget the F-35 (120 cd each) sold voluntarily and compulsorily to the rich countries of Western Europe, Japan and Israel, and we will need to sell the T-50 (also priced at about 100 cd) to India, Vietnam, etc. And these are not the richest customers. A fighter priced at around 50 cd can become massive. Though not fully meeting the 5th generation in terms of visibility, but with avionics and an engine from the T-50.

Sell ​​is sold, but no one is buying. Even Japan makes its own. Not to mention Europe.

[Zaurbek]

However, look at the number of F-35s released and release plans ...

[Muvka]

Quote: Zaurbek

However, look at the number of F-35s released and release plans ...

I saw these plans. Take a look at how many failures. And I can also plan what I can.

[voyaka uh]

The first aircraft have already arrived in the Air Force: England, Norway, Australia, the Netherlands.
There is an assembly of aircraft for Italy, Japan, Israel.

[Zaurbek]

The main air forces of NATO countries Israel and Japan, just did not refuse. And 100 failed planes out of 3000 planned ... This is still a good business. And at the same time, Eurofighter’s funeral with Rafale

[Operator]

It’s wonderful that the surrogate F-35, which has not yet reached combat readiness, is not only shoved across Western countries to the glory of Lockheed Martin, but at the same time they will bury F-15, F-16, Rafali and Eurofighter

[Aaron Zawi]

Quote: Operator

It’s wonderful that the surrogate F-35, which has not yet reached combat readiness, is not only shoved across Western countries to the glory of Lockheed Martin, but at the same time they will bury F-15, F-16, Rafali and Eurofighter

The sadness of the mind.

[varela]

PAK FA engines will receive only in 2025-2027. “Only then can it be said that the T-50 became a real fifth-generation aircraft”

And if tomorrow is war?

[Muvka]

Quote: varela

PAK FA engines will receive only in 2025-2027. “Only then can it be said that the T-50 became a real fifth-generation aircraft”

And if tomorrow is war?

If tomorrow is a war, read what Poplar-M, Sineva, Mace, Yars, Voevoda is. This is what we will fight if F-22 and 35 will oppose us.

[Igor39]

And I thought against F 22 and F 35, C 300 and C 400, as well as Shell C and BukM2.

[varela]

If tomorrow is a war, read what Poplar-M, Sineva, Mace, Yars, Voevoda is. This is what we will fight if F-22 and 35 will oppose us

It looks like you need to read at least something about the types of weapons that you have listed.
Learn, then try to be smart.

[76SSSR]

in 2025-2027

There is already the 6th generation in all the need to run.

[NEXUS]

Quote: 76SSSR

There is already the 6th generation in all the need to run.

To do this, you must first run around generation 5+ fighters (with elements and components for the next generation). Do aircraft builders have a 50% rule, in which, if the product is more than 50% innovative, the aircraft will almost certainly not fly, or fly, but with a huge pile of problems.

[Genry]

Quote: NEXUS

Do aircraft builders know if there is such a 50% rule, in which, if the product has more than 50% innovative, the aircraft will almost certainly not fly, or fly, but with a huge pile of problems.

It seems that the 6th generation will switch to hypersound.
Direct-flow engines. Folding wing. Huge overloads for maneuvering at high speeds. Plasma resistant materials. Fuel...
What will happen from the previous one?

[NEXUS]

Quote: Genry

What will happen from the previous one?

And what did the SU-35S receive from the PAK FA? Take an interest ... many of the best practices and components before putting on the T-50 were rolled in on the 35th.
Not only hyper sound is on the verge, but for example, ROFAR will also replace AFAR ...

[Hammer]

Ndaaa, and remember how in the year 10 they poured about the series at 16? =) I'm afraid now for the armature

[Muvka]

Quote: Hammer

Ndaaa, and remember how in the year 10 they poured about the series at 16? =) I'm afraid now for the armature

Recall in what year the F-35 was supposed to start entering the army? And actually, by the end of the year, he may well go into the series.

[Vadim237]

A large purchasing series T 50 should not be expected - in view of the high cost.

[Zomanus]

Great news. While they bring the engine to mind, they will have time to experience the rest in full.
And with the new engine it will be generally miraculous.
In the meantime, they will work out the assembly technology of the series,
EW, weapons and other things.

[voyaka uh]

The fact that the T-50 is being promoted by all means is correct. In addition to engines
there will be a bunch of problems that will be solved as
flight practices.
What is the stealth coating ... Americans changed the mixture
several times on F-117, F-22, until they achieved sustainable coverage
for F-35, which is applied once for the entire service life. And then
It must be checked before each departure.

[Muvka]

Quote: voyaka uh

The fact that the T-50 is being promoted by all means is correct. In addition to engines
there will be a bunch of problems that will be solved as
flight practices.
What is the stealth coating ... Americans changed the mixture
several times on F-117, F-22, until they achieved sustainable coverage
for F-35, which is applied once for the entire service life. And then
It must be checked before each departure.

In fact, as far as I know, the invisibility problem is being solved with no coverage.

[voyaka uh]

Form, of course. Like all stealth. But the form is not enough.

It’s necessary to cover the whole-whole plane with good half-centimeters of a cunning mixture,
(or several layers of mixtures in series) which
absorbs radio waves. Then, in combination with the form, there is little noticeability.

Do you need to check the coverage?
Do you need to check the planes and the fuselage under the cover?
There are rivets, joints of carbon and metal ... The headache is still that.

[Voyager]

I remember in our country they work on and use these mixtures and coatings a long time ago. If the United States had (and seems to remain) big problems with the F-22, this does not mean that there will be serious difficulties with the T-50

[NEXUS]

Quote: Voyager

If the United States had (and seems to remain) big problems with the F-22, this does not mean that there will be serious difficulties with the T-50

I guess ours will go so to speak on a hybrid path ... coverage and "cold plasma" in the future, and possibly soon.

[Voyager]

We have been talking about plasma for a long time, but there is a lot of talk about it, but the results ...

[yehat]

you forgot something. Working with chemistry is a serious industry. And Americans have long been leaders in the chemical industry and equipping laboratories for experiments. So we have much more problems working on new materials than in the USA.

[yehat]

the work on the stealth is complex, and so much so that they also change the cockpit filling - the pilot's seat, his helmet, etc.

[yehat]

Americans under 117 still had one secret stealth machine.
I don’t remember what is called - they speak very little about her, but she was and it was on her that technology began to actively circulate. I also know that on the stratospheric balls the observations did something. So with the coating work goes much longer.

[Skubudu]

quote: "but do not meet the fifth generation requirements for weight-to-traction ratio"
Taken from Wikipedia:
Product 117 (T-50)
weight 1350 kg, afterburner thrust 15000 kgs, specific thrust = 11.1 kgf / kg
F-119-PW-100 (F-22)
weight 1750 kg, afterburner thrust 15876 kgs, specific thrust = 8.94 kgf / kg
From this it can be seen that the mass to thrust ratio of Product 117 is significantly higher than that of F-119-PW-100. If the American engine in this value corresponds to the 5th generation, respectively, and edition 117 corresponds to the 5th generation.
And ed.30 will generally be the top engine in the world, judging by the stated indicators

[Muvka]

Quote: Skubudu

quote: "but do not meet the fifth generation requirements for weight-to-traction ratio"
Taken from Wikipedia:
Product 117 (T-50)
weight 1350 kg, afterburner thrust 15000 kgs, specific thrust = 11.1 kgf / kg
F-119-PW-100 (F-22)
weight 1750 kg, afterburner thrust 15876 kgs, specific thrust = 8.94 kgf / kg
From this it can be seen that the mass to thrust ratio of Product 117 is significantly higher than that of F-119-PW-100. If the American engine in this value corresponds to the 5th generation, respectively, and edition 117 corresponds to the 5th generation.
And ed.30 will generally be the top engine in the world, judging by the stated indicators

He is American, and therefore consistent. And ours is so ...

[RedBaron]

Quote: Skubudu

quote: "but do not meet the fifth generation requirements for weight-to-traction ratio"
Taken from Wikipedia:
Product 117 (T-50)
weight 1350 kg, afterburner thrust 15000 kgs, specific thrust = 11.1 kgf / kg
F-119-PW-100 (F-22)
weight 1750 kg, afterburner thrust 15876 kgs, specific thrust = 8.94 kgf / kg
From this it can be seen that the mass to thrust ratio of Product 117 is significantly higher than that of F-119-PW-100. If the American engine in this value corresponds to the 5th generation, respectively, and edition 117 corresponds to the 5th generation.
And ed.30 will generally be the top engine in the world, judging by the stated indicators

The meaning of comparing thrust on afterburner is zero.

do not meet the requirements of the fifth generation in terms of weight and traction, as well as fuel consumption. The technical complexity of engine refinement requires very long bench and flight tests, which will affect the overall development time of the T-50, ”said Pukhov.

[atamankko]

It’s difficult, for a long time, but they approached the series, you need to be happy, not grumble.

[Chrysostom]

The fifth generation plane began to be created twenty years before the collapse of the Union. It seems to have been created (it was called MIG-39), then it turned out that this was not a fifth generation plane, they sold it to the Chinese, and now they have definitely created the fifth generation with the exception of the engine. For these almost 40 years, despite the collapse of the country, aircraft construction has moved to a completely different level

[NEXUS]

Quote: Chrysostom

It seems to be created (MIG-39 was kind of called),

MIG-1.44 ... No one sold it to China. It began to be developed at about the same time as the Raptor. Then there was the SU-47 "Berkut" for the Navy ... but the prototype did not last longer.

[Voyager]

They were developed almost at the same time, the Golden Eagle seems to have even stood on the wing several years earlier. According to the people who worked on it, as well as their creative heirs, it was possible to conclude that the characteristics of 1.44 were simply amazing

[NEXUS]

Quote: Voyager

They were developed almost at the same time, the Golden Eagle seems to have even stood on the wing several years earlier. According to the people who worked on it, as well as their creative heirs, it was possible to conclude that the characteristics of 1.44 were simply amazing

No ... The golden eagle was a few years later. At first it was made for the Air Force, then after the Air Force refused it, they began to do it for the Navy with the wings folding forward (in the future).
And MIG-1.44 was primarily outstanding because of speed characteristics - more than 3000 km / h (if sclerosis does not change me 3200km, but I can be wrong).

[Voyager]

Su-47 - the first flight September 25, 1997
MiG 1.44 - the first flight on February 29, 2000
Information slipped that the MiG took off a year earlier, but all this is really not important, who is the first, who is the second .. all the same they did one thing. The golden eagle always loved, like many, but to see the MiG on that MAX summer was happy for me. The whole era and the vidok to this day is very futuristic.

[NEXUS]

Quote: Voyager

Su-47 - the first flight September 25, 1997
MiG 1.44 - the first flight on February 29, 2000

The first work on the creation of the MiG 1.44 began in 1979, development was carried out in the Design Bureau. A.I. Mikoyan. The aircraft was designed as opposed to the American F-22 Raptor

The project developed first as a promising fighter model with a CBS for the USSR Air Force (modernization of the Su-27, the theme of the S-37) as part of an industry research program since 1983, but this topic was closed in 1988. After that, the customer of the project was the Navy of the USSR, which predetermined the further development of the project as a promising aircraft for aircraft carrying cruisers.

Beginning of work on SU-47 in the year 83-84.
Something like this.

[yehat]

It is a fact that China has knowledge of most of the project documentation in an instant 1.44. Sold or who stole - I do not know. But they already have information and technologies. This is a fact.

[cap]

"Again the question of personnel arises. Here are vacancies for the ASZ. Nobody will give the actual state, this is from open data.
https://rabota.yandex.ru/search/companies?text=%D0%9E%D0%90%D0%9E%20%D0%90%D0%A1

% D0% 97 & rid = 11453 & wt = 5 & from = wizard¤cy = RUR
Head Secretary
schedule: full day
30 000 R
2 June
trudvsem.ru

The collector of the hulls of metal vessels 4 categories
schedule: full day
Add to favorites 52 300 Р
2 June
trudvsem.ru

Ship fitter 3 categories
schedule: full day
42 000 R
2 June
trudvsem.ru


Turner 4 bits-5 bits
schedule: shift
65 200–74 300 Р
29 May
trudvsem.ru

Head of OOTiZ
schedule: full day
s / n not specified
24 May
trudvsem.ru

Electrical Installation Manager
schedule: full day
s / n not specified
23 May
trudvsem.ru

Head of Department of General Director
schedule: full day
s / n not specified
23 May
trudvsem.ru

With a salary as requested. hi "

It seems that the series will definitely go. I wrote another 11 numbers.

[cap]

It seems that the series will definitely go. I wrote another 11 numbers.

I ask forgiveness made a mistake.
Careers
Komsomolsk-on-Amur Aviation Plant invites qualified specialists to work:
Top Management:
Engineering staff:
Working professions:

Admission to training in occupations is possible. Students are paid a scholarship. Production workers are paid a monthly incentive allowance during the first year of work. Nonresident production workers are provided with a bed in a hostel.
Please note: The scholarship to students in the following professions has been increased: turner, milling machine operator, fitter MCP, machine tool operator with PU, collector-riveter. Komsomol members up to 18 rubles, nonresident citizens - up to 000 rubles. An increased scholarship will be established for those who have entered into an agreement between 20/500/01.04.2016 and 31.05.2016/XNUMX/XNUMX.

For all questions of interest, contact the Staff Recruitment Bureau.
Телефоны: [phone], 52-65-55, 52-60-61.
Email: [email protected]

[Alexander Romanov]

Quote: cap

: Increased scholarship to students in the following professions: turner, milling machine operator, fitter MCP, machine tool operator with PU, collector-riveter. Komsomol members up to 18 rubles, nonresident citizens - up to 000 rubles.

And what, there is always a set. A student arrives, receives half a year of his guaranteed 18, and then workdays come.
The bottom line is that the production standards for the yesterday’s student and for the pros with the personal brand are the same. The master will fulfill them and get his 30, but yesterday’s student will not. He will eventually receive his 000, the next month the story repeats and he sends everyone and everything at all the well-known address and the factory takes another student in its place.
This is the reality at the factory.

[Chrysostom]

It is a pity that the military hydroaviation was abandoned. An excellent aircraft in 1986 was created at the Beriev Design Bureau, but only 2 cars were created.

[NEXUS]

Quote: Chrysostom

It is a pity that the military hydroaviation was abandoned.

No, they didn’t abandon ... they are slowly resuscitating ..

By 2020, Be-12 anti-submarine amphibious aircraft will be replaced by A-40 hydroplanes. This was stated by the chief of naval aviation of the Black Sea Fleet, Colonel Gennady Zagonov, RIA Novosti reported.

Earlier, in July 2015, a senior source in the leadership of the Navy claimed that the military would order an anti-submarine aircraft based on the Be-200 amphibian, which, in turn, was created in the 1990s using the backlog of the A-40 aircraft.

[Ros 56]

Guys about what the argument is, you get information from somewhere, one woman said. None of you really know anything, just continuous rumors and fragmentary information. Will you run into each other. Only one phrase - the T-50 is almost ready to launch in a series, it means a lot. Let's hope that everything will be fine. I think that even with engines from the 35th, ours will not yield to the F-35. By the way, who knows how many planes and helicopters were put into the troops over the past year?

[Skubudu]

I am more concerned about the issue of arming the T-50, in particular medium and long-range missiles. I did not find where information on missile launches from internal compartments and generally on the T-50 firing

[Ros 56]

Quote: Skubudu

I am more concerned about the issue of arming the T-50

This question let it bother potential enemies, you have something to worry about. It is evident that it is not supposed to know what is not allowed. Normal military theme.

[yehat]

if you are ready to run in a series, these issues have already been resolved.
especially since it’s been a year since they’ve been working on weapons.
and with weapons that the same company already uses on other types of aircraft.

[hunt1]

all the same, it’s interesting which index will be assigned to t-50. SU-37 or maybe SU-50 or something else?

[yehat]

Su-22m to match the F-22

[vmo]

Well done and clever !!!!!!

[Garris199]

New engine by 2025-2027? Cut it another 11 years? Isn't that a typo?

[evge-malyshev]

It is incomprehensible that most commentators took such a great job on a great car. It is said that the installation batch of 12 cars will be operated in combat units. And these are not test pilots. While mastering the existing version (and it will take a lot of time: taxiing, take-off, approach, landing, day-night flights, flights in simple and difficult weather conditions, flights in a group, flights for military use (air - ground targets) , flying in a REP environment, and many, many other tasks ...) engines will arrive in time, the absence of which is currently so worried by most commentators.

[Tektor]

June 20 will be a momentous event. In fact, this date allows to make a list of two countries so far whose armed forces will consist of airplanes gaining superiority in the airspace of the 5th generation of their own design and production. The Russian Federation is behind by about 12 years, but not in quality, but in quantity. The country number 3 is still hard to imagine, because To meet the requirements of the 5th generation, Chinese aircraft are not yet suitable. For the full realization of their potential, 5th generation aircraft need a satellite system constellation. In Russia, it will be the TSA, which is necessary to ensure full tactical awareness in real time while maintaining the secrecy of operations. And only after the full deployment of the CEN, the Su-50 will reach its initial operational readiness.

[Ustinov 055 055]

Conclusion to such a mine dear readers, we have a glider stuffed with the latest equipment of the 5th generation but the 4 ++ engine, unfortunately we will not have a full fighter of the 5th something transitional. But this is good, otherwise I thought that everything was ruined. Looks like small strengths still remained

[Come on]

I don’t want to touch on a bunch of other upcoming problems, like with software, using weapons, etc., because so far only the glider has been brought to a state of readiness, it’s too early to talk about combat readiness .. But there are questions about stealth from certain positions. It is enough to look at how this is decided on the F-22 and the open T-50 engines. From the front hemisphere of the T-50, there may well be a stealth with low EPR, but do not unmask the location of the engines or increase the EPR and other factors that contribute to detection?

[Torins]

How slowly the process is going on ((The Su-35 is certainly a great aircraft, but the VKS needs a new breath in the form of a new generation of technology! Do not let us down !!!

[zenion]

It is sad! He's probably as ready as Windows 10.