Military Review

Media: T-50 is almost ready to launch in the series.

256
UAC is preparing a preliminary opinion on the release of the installation batch of the newest T-50 airline complexes (PAK FA) for the Russian Aerospace Force, the newspaper reports News with reference to a source close to the aircraft manufacturing corporation.

Media: T-50 is almost ready to launch in the series.


According to the interlocutor, "The 20 of June in Komsomolsk-on-Amur will take off the eighth vehicle of the series, which almost completely meets the requirements of the military in terms of combat capabilities for a fifth-generation fighter."

“Unlike previous aircraft, the eighth board is fully equipped with equipment and systems prescribed in the terms of reference for the creation of a promising front-line complex aviation. It is with the advent of this fighter that we can say that the T-50, as a combat unit, has gained a real face and is ready for mass production in the interests of the VKS ”,
he explained.

“At the moment, in the shops of the Komsomolsk-on-Amur Aviation Plant (KnAAZ) there are four more T-50 in varying degrees of readiness. Machine number 9 will join the flight tests of the complex in September. The next two, 10-i and 11-i, are on the stocks: the first fuselage is attached to the first, the center section is assembled from the second. By the end of the year, both will enter the flight test phase, ”the source said, noting that in the fall, the KLA will be ready to sign the contract for the delivery of the installation batch.

As stated by the Commander-in-Chief of the VKS, Viktor Bondarev, the deliveries of cars should begin next year.

“The installation batch is at least 12 machines, that is, one squadron. They do not include fighters currently undergoing tests. That is, in 2017, in the interests of the VKS, completely new combat vehicles that meet the requirements of the technical specifications will be built and delivered, which will have to go through a stage of military tests, after which we can talk about expanding the procurement, ”said the head of the Center for Analysis of Strategies and Technologies (Center AST ) Ruslan Pukhov.

According to the expert, one should not expect that in the coming years, the T-50 will become a mass aircraft. "If only because the fifth generation engines, known today as the" Type 30 ", or second-stage engines, are under development," he said.

“Serial T-50s will go into service with 117С engines, the same as on Su-35 fighters. Although they provide the necessary total thrust, sufficient to achieve supersonic cruising speed, they do not meet the requirements of the fifth generation in terms of the ratio of weight and thrust, as well as fuel consumption. The technical complexity of engine development requires very long bench and flight tests, which will affect the overall development time of the T-50, ”noted Pukhov.

According to various estimates, these engines will receive the PAK FA only in 2025-2027. “Only then can we say that the T-50 has become a real fifth-generation aircraft,” he added.

“It seems to me that today we need to be ahead of the curve, not only developing T-50 under the FGFA program (export name PAK FA, Fifth Generation Fighter Aircraft) with our strategic partner in the field of military-technical cooperation, India, but also by offering it to Algeria and Vietnam. Both countries have an independent military-technical policy and have their own funds for the purchase of modern weapons. Thanks to the alliance with them, the creation of the T-50 can be cheapened by making it a massive fighter, ”said Pukhov.
Photos used:
JOURNAL / Alexander Melnikov
256 comments
Ad

Subscribe to our Telegram channel, daily additional materials that do not get on the site: https://t.me/topwar_ru

Information
Dear reader, to leave comments on the publication, you must sign in.
  1. Byshido_dis
    Byshido_dis 15 June 2016 11: 44
    -3
    Very good news!!! Just do not stop ahead!
    1. PHANTOM-AS
      PHANTOM-AS 15 June 2016 11: 50
      +66
      Quote: Byshido_dis
      Very good news!!! Just do not stop ahead!

      Where did you see the good news?
      in the fact that we get a full-fledged 5th generation airplane in 11 years, in this you saw grace?
      Or is it important for you to settle down by reading the article diagonally?
      Stop blowing soap pusiri, dear!
      1. Muvka
        Muvka 15 June 2016 11: 52
        +30
        Quote: PHANTOM-AS
        Quote: Byshido_dis
        Very good news!!! Just do not stop ahead!

        Where did you see the good news?
        in the fact that we get a full-fledged 5th generation airplane in 11 years, in this you saw grace?
        Or is it important for you to settle down by reading the article diagonally?
        Stop blowing soap pusiri, dear!

        Then, according to this criterion, the F-35 does not belong to the 5th generation, because it has a significantly lower thrust ratio than the T-50 with the current engines ...
        1. Pereira
          Pereira 15 June 2016 12: 01
          .
          We are talking about our plane. Is the engine already new? Do not know?
          1. iliitchitch
            iliitchitch 15 June 2016 12: 07
            +31
            Quote: Pereira
            We are talking about our plane. Is the engine already new? Do not know?


            So it is written - 117C, as on the SU-35C, the old engine, 119 will be tormented for a long time, as I understand it. But even with this, he’s completely fine, while they will polish the rest, it’s time for arming.
            1. Voyager
              Voyager 15 June 2016 12: 29
              +8
              At PAK FA, the engines are not 117C. Not from the Su-35.
              1. iliitchitch
                iliitchitch 15 June 2016 12: 50
                +10
                Quote: Voyager
                At PAK FA, the engines are not 117C. Not from the Su-35.


                But what is it - either I'm stupid, or the skis do not go. The article clearly says - 117С AS AS on the SU-35S, and not only in this article, by the way.
                And, I realized - standing on the SU-35S is already different, because it is not on the T-50. And why, logically, in the style of the beauty Jenny. drinks
                1. Muvka
                  Muvka 15 June 2016 12: 57
                  +49
                  AL-41F1S (Product 117C) Su-35:
                  The engine differs from AL-41F1 in the use of the old electromechanical control system and traction reduced by 500 kg [7].

                  The AL-31F41S engine differs from AL-1F in increased thrust (14500 kgf vs. 12500), longer overhaul life (4000 hours against 1000), reduced fuel consumption, controlled by the thrust vector, and also allow the aircraft to develop supersonic speed without using afterburner, which is one of the basic requirements for a fifth generation fighter.

                  AL-41F1 T-50:
                  AL-41F1 (Product 117) consists of 80% new parts. The main ones are:

                  low pressure compressor
                  high pressure compressor
                  plasma ignition system [4]
                  combustion chamber [4]
                  compressor with a diameter increased to 932 mm [3]
                  afterburner combustion chamber
                  full-view thrust vector control, ± 16 ° in any direction, and ± 20 ° of the plane [5]
                  digital control system with elements of distributed parameters
                  Thanks to these measures, the thrust force of the AL-41F1 engine increased significantly: 15000 kgf vs. 12500 kgf of the AL-31F, the service life increased (4000 hours versus 1000) and the reliability increased, fuel consumption decreased [3]. For the first time, a plasma ignition system was implemented, which ensured the possibility of an oxygen-free engine start:
                  1. Operator
                    Operator 15 June 2016 13: 41
                    +5
                    Head of the Center for Analysis of Strategies and Technologies (AST Center) "expert" Ruslan Pukhov:
                    “Serial T-50 will go into service with 117С motors, same, what are on the Su-35 fighters "- why publish on VO this bullshit?
                    1. Muvka
                      Muvka 15 June 2016 13: 45
                      +11
                      Quote: Operator
                      Head of the Center for Analysis of Strategies and Technologies (AST Center) "expert" Ruslan Pukhov:
                      “Serial T-50 will go into service with 117С motors, same, what are on the Su-35 fighters "- why publish on VO this bullshit?

                      You have correctly enclosed the word "expert" with quotation marks.
                    2. Lex.
                      Lex. 15 June 2016 18: 18
                      +5
                      expert "Ruslan Pukhov:
                      He thinks that he is an expert, but far from an expert, he is like Pavel Evgenievich Felgenhauer, a Russian biologist, journalist, and military observer. Biologist by education
                      1. Parsec
                        Parsec 15 June 2016 18: 29
                        +2
                        Quote: Lex.
                        He thinks that he is an expert, but far from an expert, he is like Pavel Evgenievich Felgenhauer, a Russian biologist, journalist, and military observer. Biologist by education



                        How will this be said in Russian, but, a former compatriot?
                      2. bobba94
                        bobba94 16 June 2016 20: 25
                        +10
                        In addition to the Felgenhauer, there are many more such expertoffs in Echo of Moscow and Novaya Gazeta. Characteristically, they all were once biologists, design engineers of the 25th category and so on, but they all attended seminars at Stanford University, where grace descended upon them and they suddenly became military experts.
                2. Voyager
                  Voyager 15 June 2016 13: 02
                  +15
                  Do not believe everything that is written in newspapers wink 117 and 117C are not the same thing at all wink
                  1. Bayonet
                    Bayonet 15 June 2016 17: 55
                    +8
                    Quote: Voyager
                    Do not believe everything that is written in newspapers

                    And do not read them before dinner! wink
              2. Terminolol
                Terminolol 15 June 2016 16: 23
                +3
                It seems that many articles here do not read and write comments.
            2. Ardein
              Ardein 15 June 2016 15: 52
              +6
              Quote: iliitch
              Quote: Pereira
              We are talking about our plane. Is the engine already new? Do not know?


              So it is written - 117C, as on the SU-35C, the old engine, 119 will be tormented for a long time, as I understand it. But even with this, he’s completely fine, while they will polish the rest, it’s time for arming.


              It’s quite for yourself - it seems like it comes to supersonic without afterburner? Is there a UVT? Well, great for a start :)
              1. NEXUS
                NEXUS 15 June 2016 15: 59
                +19
                Quote: Ardein
                It’s quite for yourself - it seems like it comes to supersonic without afterburner?

                I’ll tell you more, for PAK FA with this engine, a world record in climbing. If sclerosis does not change me, something is about 384 m / s hi
                1. silver_roman
                  silver_roman 17 June 2016 09: 24
                  +1
                  Quote: NEXUS
                  behind PAK FA with this engine the world record for climbing.

                  I wonder which board achieved such climb?
                  The question is relevant, because only 8 board (based on the words in the article, has ALL systems and equipment that will be installed on serial aircraft, therefore the 8 board is the heaviest, since some nodes could be missing on others. Correspondingly, climb 8 may be lower .
            3. SSeT
              SSeT 18 June 2016 00: 00
              0
              11 years will torment analog F-119? Well Molotstsy, Cho can’t say here, the cross-archers are simple! go forward!
          2. NEXUS
            NEXUS 15 June 2016 12: 30
            +6
            Quote: Pereira
            We are talking about our plane. Is the engine already new?

            The engine of the second stage is promised to be brought to mind by the 18th year ... while they are chasing it at the stand.
            1. Aaron Zawi
              Aaron Zawi 15 June 2016 13: 07
              0
              Quote: NEXUS

              The engine of the second stage is promised to be brought to mind by the 18th year ... while they are chasing it at the stand.

              Already, as you see, they do not promise.
              1. NEXUS
                NEXUS 15 June 2016 13: 13
                +10
                Quote: Aron Zaavi
                Already, as you see, they do not promise.

                Wait and see. It is important that work on the product 30 is in progress.
                1. Bayonet
                  Bayonet 15 June 2016 17: 57
                  +6
                  Quote: NEXUS
                  Wait and see.

                  This is true! A hat toss, ahead of time is not worth it!
              2. Lex.
                Lex. 15 June 2016 18: 19
                +8
                As you can see, they do not promise. And tomorrow another expert will say something else
            2. silver_roman
              silver_roman 17 June 2016 09: 26
              +1
              to the 18th is not real. The engine will be tested only for 2 years and brought to mind, i.e. in order to accept it by the year 18, he must already undergo tests in the gland. And it seems like it is not even assembled yet.
              So before 20 years will not be a FACT! But again, do not dwell on this. Al-41F1 is an excellent engine, proven.
            3. mihai_md2003
              mihai_md2003 18 June 2016 01: 36
              0
              Quote: NEXUS
              Quote: Pereira
              We are talking about our plane. Is the engine already new?

              The engine of the second stage is promised to be brought to mind by the 18th year ... while they are chasing it at the stand.


              this is somehow nicer to the ear all the same 18 is not 27. Something in the article is a lot of inconsistencies. And the engine is not the same and the timing is not the same. Or maybe I didn’t understand something. The engine of the second stage is this the necessary engine for this aircraft?
        2. Aaron Zawi
          Aaron Zawi 15 June 2016 12: 15
          .
          Quote: Muvka

          Then, according to this criterion, the F-35 does not belong to the 5th generation, because it has a significantly lower thrust ratio than the T-50 with the current engines ...

          The F-35 is a fighter-bomber, and the T-50 is a pure fighter or, as they say, "air conqueror". Different requirements are presented to them. For example, there is an estimate that to ensure superiority against the T-50, triple air superiority of the F-35 in the absence of the F-22 is necessary.
          1. Muvka
            Muvka 15 June 2016 12: 21
            +29
            Promising Front-End Aviation Complex (PAK FA, T-50, I-21) - Russian multipurpose fifth generation fighter.
            I hope you know the meaning of the word "multipurpose"?
            1. vv3
              vv3 15 June 2016 13: 47
              +1
              Until we create a combat information and control system for conducting a modern war, we will not have a 5th generation aircraft, we will have a good platform for a 5th generation aircraft, but without brains and without a system in which it should be integrated. a beautiful word for dummies and uryat. Only no offense.
              1. Sergei75
                Sergei75 15 June 2016 20: 59
                .
                Before the launch of the T-50 in a series - as before China! There, the campaign is a problem with the glider.
                1. NEXUS
                  NEXUS 15 June 2016 21: 04
                  +11
                  Quote: Sergei75
                  Before the launch of the T-50 in a series - as before China! There, the campaign is a problem with the glider.

                  With what fright? What problems? I flew and flew, and at parades, and at exhibitions, and then the "problem hike"? No need to fantasize if there is no concrete evidence of your words, dear.
                  8-th prototype, this is not a simple plane, but pre-production version, which means that the launch of the series will be very soon.
                  1. Yars
                    Yars 17 June 2016 19: 45
                    +3
                    Quote: NEXUS
                    Quote: Sergei75
                    Before the launch of the T-50 in a series - as before China! There, the campaign is a problem with the glider.

                    With what fright? What problems? I flew and flew, and at parades, and at exhibitions, and then the "problem hike"? No need to fantasize if there is no concrete evidence of your words, dear.
                    8-th prototype, this is not a simple plane, but pre-production version, which means that the launch of the series will be very soon.

                    such a job for these guys, troll shit mom! All wearers ........
          2. iliitchitch
            iliitchitch 15 June 2016 12: 28
            +31
            Quote: Aron Zaavi
            The T-50 is a pure fighter or, as they say, "airspace conqueror".


            In, damn it, what you just will not hear. Of course, a clean fighter, a colleague, alcohol, and then not so clean. wassat
            1. Aaron Zawi
              Aaron Zawi 15 June 2016 13: 06
              0
              Quote: iliitch
              Quote: Aron Zaavi
              The T-50 is a pure fighter or, as they say, "airspace conqueror".


              In, damn it, what you just will not hear. Of course, a clean fighter, a colleague, alcohol, and then not so clean. wassat

              Well, somewhere like that. The F-22 also has the ability to attack targets on the ground and even bombed something in Syria, but nevertheless, the US Air Force sees it primarily as a "conqueror of airspace."
          3. NEXUS
            NEXUS 15 June 2016 12: 31
            +12
            Quote: Aron Zaavi
            For example, there is an estimate that to achieve superiority against the T-50, triple air superiority in the F-35 is required in the absence of the F-22.

            Since when is a heavy fighter compared to a light fighter-bomber?
            1. Aaron Zawi
              Aaron Zawi 15 June 2016 13: 03
              +3
              Quote: NEXUS
              Quote: Aron Zaavi
              For example, there is an estimate that to achieve superiority against the T-50, triple air superiority in the F-35 is required in the absence of the F-22.

              Since when is a heavy fighter compared to a light fighter-bomber?

              They do not compare, but evaluate the potential of opposition. A virtual comparison of the MiG-29vsF15 is carried out. Although the first is light, and the second is heavy.
              1. NEXUS
                NEXUS 15 June 2016 13: 09
                +8
                Quote: Aron Zaavi
                They do not compare, but evaluate the potential of opposition.

                Even in comparison of the potential of confrontation, this is not correct, for a simple reason, mattresses, in a hepotitic confrontation in the air with us, will never throw their 50s into battle with the T-35, because the losses will not be justified by the goals. PAK FA is too good. " sharpened "for air battles and for him the 35th is very easy prey. And this is not bravado, but a fact.
                1. Aaron Zawi
                  Aaron Zawi 15 June 2016 13: 24
                  +6
                  Quote: NEXUS

                  Even in comparison of the potential of confrontation, this is not correct, for a simple reason, mattresses, in a hepotitic confrontation in the air with us, will never throw their 50s into battle with the T-35, because the losses will not be justified by the goals. PAK FA is too good. " sharpened "for air battles and for him the 35th is very easy prey. And this is not bravado, but a fact.

                  What do you mean they will not quit? In principle, any fighter-bomber is imprisoned for air combat. Theoretically, in the case of some kind of regional conflict where the 50s and 35s can converge, the latter has a number of advantages, such as a lower ESR, a more advanced avionics and, finally, just the ability to concentrate much more vehicles for military operations. T / e, even without taking into account the 22x US will be able to create an advantage of 35 in the air to 50m 5/1, which means an advantage in the number of missiles in-in. I’m talking about a regional conflict, since a direct clash between the Russian Federation and the United States is death for all of humanity.
                  1. NEXUS
                    NEXUS 15 June 2016 13: 31
                    +14
                    Quote: Aron Zaavi
                    What do you mean they will not quit?

                    And that means ... to remind you how much this unit costs? The big losses of these machines will not justify any purpose.
                    Quote: Aron Zaavi
                    In principle, any fighter-bomber is imprisoned for air combat.

                    It is possible with its equal ... but ... the T-50 is a "purebred" air fighter, which cannot be said about the 35th
                    Quote: Aron Zaavi
                    like lower ESR

                    Did the mattresses tell you this or did you find out from the wiki?
                    Quote: Aron Zaavi
                    more advanced avionics

                    Is this a fright? Do you know what is on the PAK FA and TTX of its electronics? For me, the T-50 avionics will be more powerful, at least because it is a heavy fighter.
                    Quote: Aron Zaavi
                    T / e, even without taking into account the 22x USA, will be able to create an advantage of 35 in the air to 50m 5/1,

                    5 to one? By the 20th year, let’s see what the ratio will be.
                    1. GSH-18
                      GSH-18 15 June 2016 13: 39
                      +2
                      Quote: NEXUS
                      .but ... T-50 is a "purebred" air fighter,

                      Not at all! This is a 5th generation MFI. He can do everything much better than "purebred" yes
                      That's why he is "five" good
                      1. NEXUS
                        NEXUS 15 June 2016 13: 43
                        +3
                        Quote: GSH-18
                        Not at all! This is a 5th generation MFI. He can do everything much better than "purebred"

                        That's right, MFI ... only he has the main task for which he was created and for which he sharpened, as well as the "lizard" is the establishment of air domination.
                      2. GSH-18
                        GSH-18 15 June 2016 14: 13
                        +5
                        Quote: NEXUS
                        That's right, MFI ... only he has the main task for which he was created and for which he sharpened, as well as the "lizard" is the establishment of air domination.

                        For the T-50, the main task is determined by the doctrine of use in the aerospace forces, and, accordingly, the TK of the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation for its appearance, application and production. MFIs have no framework for use. That's why they are MFIs. Yes, the T-50 can effectively kill everyone in the air, but that's only part of what it can do. We are getting rid of the "purebred" fighters of the MiG-29 type.
                    2. Bayonet
                      Bayonet 15 June 2016 18: 22
                      +5
                      Quote: NEXUS
                      It is possible with an equal ... but ... the T-50 is a "purebred" air fighter,

                      Among the basic requirements for a new car, were listed:

                      multifunctionality, which implied equal opportunities for operations on air, ground and surface targets;
                      low visibility in all spectra (visual, radar, thermal and electromagnetic);

                      over-maneuverability, which implied the implementation of unconventional techniques and tactical elements of air combat, as well as expanding the range of possible flight modes without going to the brink of stall and stall;

                      supersonic cruising flight speeds, allowing for an energetic manner of aerial combat, imposing an initiative on the enemy and quick response to changing tactical conditions.
                  2. Ardein
                    Ardein 15 June 2016 16: 00
                    +4
                    Quote: Aaron Zawi
                    Quote: NEXUS

                    Even in comparison of the potential of confrontation, this is not correct, for a simple reason, mattresses, in a hepotitic confrontation in the air with us, will never throw their 50s into battle with the T-35, because the losses will not be justified by the goals. PAK FA is too good. " sharpened "for air battles and for him the 35th is very easy prey. And this is not bravado, but a fact.

                    What do you mean they will not quit? In principle, any fighter-bomber is imprisoned for air combat. Theoretically, in the case of some kind of regional conflict where the 50s and 35s can converge, the latter has a number of advantages, such as a lower ESR, a more advanced avionics and, finally, just the ability to concentrate much more vehicles for military operations. T / e, even without taking into account the 22x US will be able to create an advantage of 35 in the air to 50m 5/1, which means an advantage in the number of missiles in-in. I’m talking about a regional conflict, since a direct clash between the Russian Federation and the United States is death for all of humanity.

                    You didn’t enter the essence of the news. And after all, it is written there that this instance differs from the previous ones precisely in that it is installed on it NATIONAL BREO. An optical-electronic detection station with a T-50 has not been done anywhere - which means that the F-35 is a very small EPR, the detection range of our ECO is 60-70 kilometers (this does not include the new T-50 radar, which is at least composite and provides a circular view of several hundred km with decent resolution) which does not leave the F-35 a chance with a range of RVV-SD under 70 km or more ... I don’t even talk about RVV-DB ......... ......................
                    1. GSH-18
                      GSH-18 16 June 2016 12: 22
                      +2
                      Quote: Ardein
                      And after all, it is written there that this instance differs from the previous ones precisely in that it has the NUMBER BREO installed. Optoelectronic detection station with T-50, no one did not go anywhere

                      Right. This is a pre-production sample. yes
                  3. LastLap
                    LastLap 15 June 2016 17: 12
                    0
                    Put a plus. Since the irons are paid for by Aunt Nata, Uncle Izya and other distant and close relatives, it is more than possible to create a quantitative advantage, but Aunt Nata is absolutely not ready for a communal apartment in dust. Again, if there is an opportunity for comrade Ho or no one Ali to acquire an analogue of the 22nd at a price lower than the 35th, uncertainty arises and the question: "Wouldn't Aunt Nata and uncles like her go?"
                  4. Bayonet
                    Bayonet 15 June 2016 18: 09
                    0
                    Quote: Aron Zaavi
                    In principle, any fighter-bomber is imprisoned for air combat.

                    This is already in the name itself - Fighter-bomber. hi
                    1. NEXUS
                      NEXUS 15 June 2016 18: 53
                      +1
                      Quote: Bayonet
                      This is already in the name itself - Fighter-bomber.

                      In the case of the F-35 rather fighter-BOMBERS. And for me, so Lightning is closer to the attack aircraft.
                  5. 11 black
                    11 black 17 June 2016 15: 14
                    +3
                    Quote: Aron Zaavi
                    What do you mean they will not quit? In principle, any fighter-bomber is imprisoned for air combat. Theoretically, in the case of some kind of regional conflict, where 50 and 35 can converge, the latter has a number of advantages, such as a lower ESR, more advanced avionics

                    Do you have any idea what kind of avionics is on the T-50 - there is a NO-36 complex of three radars with AFAR giving out the T-50 almost all-round visibility. And he looks simultaneously in three directions. There are also 2 L-band radars in the wings - presumably an "anti-stealth detector" and also a laser countermeasuring system for optical / IR seeker and the most modern electronic warfare complex in the Himalayas. Two machines with this system synchronize their work and even in the signal source detection mode, the enemy sees only an imaginary target.
                    As well as SOAR in a circle and the latest OLS. What superiority of avionics F-35 are we talking about?
                    Remind you of the speeds of these machines, their maneuverability and combat radius? Can recall the quality of the missiles themselves? Even in an 10 fight on an 2, I would put it on the T-50 since the F-35 has nothing to do with knocking out this car (the optics and infrared range are blocked by the KS-O station, the Himalayas working in tandem pressurize missiles from the radar without allowing themselves to be detected) .. .IMHO
                    1. vv3
                      vv3 17 June 2016 22: 42
                      -2
                      You should tell fairy tales to children ... The possibilities that you came up with are 100% dependent on the level of computer technology and software ... Americans cannot provide a solution to the tasks envisioned on the F35 and have changed the software several times (about 10). their level of computing base. This is the only significant problem of the aircraft, because of which it does not officially go into series ... And you are in Chinese and Indian consumer goods for avionics T-50, which, as stated in the article, is fully assembled for the first time and only everything will be tested already implemented ... I arrogantly affirm that the main AFAR modes will not be implemented on the T-50 even after the installation of engines of the second stage ... Your fairy tales, or rather, nothing reinforced by nonsense ... leave yourself and the like .. . It is necessary to really think, and not engage in hat-making, it only harms our country.
                2. SSeT
                  SSeT 18 June 2016 00: 08
                  0
                  And the Turks will not abandon their F-30s against Sy-35-16 in Syria, yeah! Do not be stupid, they draw the real situation for you, not speculation
          4. vv3
            vv3 15 June 2016 13: 33
            .
            What nonsense do you know what modern warfare is? Modern warfare is a war of information technology and the ability to use them. What is a pure fighter? ..Just no words ...
            1. NEXUS
              NEXUS 15 June 2016 13: 38
              +9
              Quote: vv3
              What nonsense, you know what modern war is. Modern warfare is a war of information technology and the ability to use them. What is a pure fighter? ..Just no words ...

              Dear, you are talking nonsense. What information technologies? What are these technologies worth if the same AWACS is taken out of the game? Where will you put your 35th then?
              Nobody has canceled electronic warfare systems. And we just know how to use them, and therefore these technologies are easy to multiply by zero.
              Don't be smart. Look stupid.
              1. GSH-18
                GSH-18 15 June 2016 13: 50
                -1
                Quote: NEXUS
                Dear, you are talking nonsense. What information technologies? What are these technologies worth if the same AWACS is taken out of the game? Where will you put your 35th then?

                Dear Nexus, I want to stand up for our seropogonous odnositnika. The fact is that electronics are different. It all depends on the qualifications of the engineers. Have you ever heard of rugged military electronics that can withstand repeated exposure to EMP from nuclear weapons? And about the electronics of the "Space" class?
                Well, all the rumors about the unreliability of electronic weapons systems are greatly exaggerated and outdated. The EW field of our systems in Syria in no way prevented our Dryers from working as if nothing had happened.
                1. NEXUS
                  NEXUS 15 June 2016 13: 57
                  +7
                  Quote: GSH-18
                  Dear Nexus, I want to stand up for our seropogonny odnosaytnika.

                  Who offends him, then? Touched by those individuals who, absolutely not knowing the "stuffing" of the fighter and its capabilities, so confidently pose as a guardian of progress in our military-industrial complex.
                  1. GSH-18
                    GSH-18 15 June 2016 14: 18
                    +3
                    Quote: NEXUS
                    Touched by those individuals who, absolutely not knowing the "stuffing" of the fighter and its capabilities, so confidently pose as a guardian of progress in our military-industrial complex.

                    What should I do? request Not all specialists on the site, but many want to seem them lol
                2. bk316
                  bk316 16 June 2016 18: 10
                  +2
                  Quote: GSH-18
                  Have you ever heard of protected military electronics that can withstand repeated exposure to electromagnetic radiation from nuclear weapons

                  Sorry to wedge myself. I once even wrote about such electronics.
                  But what does our phrase "seropogonous" have to do with this exactly as with the discussed news?
                  "Modern warfare is the war of information technology ..."
                  Why do we need spells like "Economy should be economical" on the forum?
              2. vv3
                vv3 16 June 2016 10: 18
                -3
                Only for you . And you don’t have to hide in the fog of globalism ... In the center of the combat control in Syria, a group of tactical operators are on duty at the monitors. Each has its own sector, its own assigned fire weapons with the entered coordinates of the base and the calculated zones of destruction on the screen. The operator receives overview information from patrol UAVs can receive information from AWACS or satellites if they control its area or patrol SU-35. And the cheapest way is from stationary observation points ... For example, the area of ​​the Syrian-Turkish border. If an enemy is detected, the operator through the control operator of the desired UAV determines the coordinates of the target and turns on the mode of automatic tracking of the target with available means of destruction. ACS and MLRS work out the pointing angles in real time. If the radius is not enough, but it is enough, the operator communicates and provides the transmission of the coordinates of the target for attack helicopters or airplanes in the air. duty means. With the help of operator programs it selects the priority means of destruction taking into account the type of target. It identifies the target and destroys it. Most likely, in our case this will be ground-based fire weapons, there are enough radius from Alepo. Impact UAVs are not needed ... That's all, there is no war in Syria ... I for the educational program he drew the most simple, already possible, but it is not clear why the unrealized scenario ... Such systems should have entered the Army before 2020. The program adopted in 2000 failed, even the concept of such a system failed. Tested in 2013, the ESU TK does not work, was created for window dressing and is overloaded with unnecessary rear functions .... This is not even an F-35 for you ... It's about the inability to wage a modern war ...
                1. vv3
                  vv3 16 June 2016 10: 52
                  +4
                  For his seditious thoughts in this discussion, I already received 39 minuses, but also 17 pluses. Previously, they just pecked ...
                  1. Yars
                    Yars 17 June 2016 19: 49
                    0
                    Quote: vv3
                    For his seditious thoughts in this discussion, I already received 39 minuses, but also 17 pluses. Previously, they just pecked ...

                    Yes for your nonsense and 50 minuses are few!
                    1. Come on
                      Come on 17 June 2016 20: 17
                      +1
                      What is the nonsense, can be more specific?
                2. GSH-18
                  GSH-18 16 June 2016 12: 13
                  +1
                  Quote: vv3
                  This is not even an F-35 ... It's about the inability to wage a modern war ...

                  And the results of the combat unit of the Syrian company indicate the opposite. The fact is a stubborn thing. Moreover, this "advanced" Western coalition, in comparison with our Russian Aerospace Forces, has shown itself in all its "glory" lol
                  In fact, our videoconferencing made these "warriors" to ridicule yes
                  So much for the "bad" Russian control system request
                  1. vv3
                    vv3 16 June 2016 12: 39
                    +2
                    And that the war is over, or already won, watch TV and shout cheers, this is your level! Probably, you dream of becoming a spotter in this modern war.
                    1. 11 black
                      11 black 17 June 2016 15: 21
                      0
                      Quote: vv3
                      And that the war is over, or already won, watch TV and shout cheers, this is your level! Probably, you dream of becoming a spotter in this modern war.

                      No - we "dream" of bombing exclusively hospitals, excavators and allies in this modern war ...
                  2. Come on
                    Come on 17 June 2016 20: 26
                    -1
                    Can you be more specific about the "results"? The complete absence of electronic warfare and air defense .., the lost Drying and at least 3 helicopters .. And it’s also interesting, on what basis do you make any comparisons with the "western coalition", which was allegedly shamed? I suspect you have no other sources and "facts" except from the "Time" program. Moreover, there was no "Western coalition" in the "Syrian company", they actually bombed in Iraq .. Oh yes, the results .., so who prevents you from comparing the occupied settlements of ISIS in the summer of 2014 (when ISIS first announced itself , after which, in September, the mattress toppers began air strikes) and today in Iraq?
              3. Come on
                Come on 17 June 2016 20: 15
                -1
                Quote: NEXUS
                What information technology?


                The ability to wage a "network-centric war", which NATO has long been introduced, in Russia there is still a long way to go.

                Quote: NEXUS
                What are these technologies worth if the same AWACS is taken out of the game? Where do you put your 35th then?


                First, how are you going to take AWACS out of the game? What has to do with how many of these AWACS NATO has? And the F-35 itself, in your opinion, is it a miserable car without its own avionics?

                Quote: NEXUS
                Nobody has canceled electronic warfare systems. And we just know how to use them, and therefore these technologies are easy to multiply by zero.


                And where are these electronic warfare systems used successfully? Especially against a high-tech adversary like NATO / USA? Why then do you need a T-50 when you can stuff a fat IL-76 with electronic warfare systems and NATO technology multiplied by zero :)
                1. NEXUS
                  NEXUS 17 June 2016 20: 35
                  +2
                  Quote: Yeah, well.
                  The ability to wage a "network-centric war", which NATO has long been introduced, in Russia there is still a long way to go.

                  About how ... but in Syria, does our VKS blindly bomb ISIS? Do not talk nonsense, do not become like a critic who has no idea what he is talking about.
                  Quote: Yeah, well.
                  First of all, how are you going to take AWACS out of the game?

                  For example, the R-37 missile ... or from the ground with the S-400 complex (In the future, S-500). And there are also electronic warfare systems that are designed to mold AWACS.
                  Quote: Yeah, well.
                  What does it mean to how many of these AWACS have NATO?

                  Remind me how many tools at our disposal to withdraw AWACS from the game?
                  Quote: Yeah, well.
                  Yes, and the F-35 itself, in your opinion, that, wretchedly, without your own avionics machine?

                  Dear, this phrase of yours says that you do not see the difference between a heavy fighter and a light one (at the same time, the F-35 with its AFAR, given its detection range, simply will not have time to release "far-hand" missiles, but in close combat, he is not a tenant) Just look at what is the range of the longest-range missile at the mattresses, the detection radius of the AFAR F-35, the detection radius of at least the IRBIS HEADLIGHTS, which is on the SU-35S (I will not say anything about the Belka), the radius of our far and middle arms and the oncoming the speed of convergence ... and you will understand everything.
                  Quote: Yeah, well.
                  And where are these electronic warfare systems used successfully?

                  Georgia for example.
                  Quote: Yeah, well.
                  Especially against a high-tech adversary like NATO / USA?

                  No question ... the incident with the destroyer Kuk ... and I'm not talking about the Khibiny, which are NOT on the SU-24, but about the coastal EW complexes, for example, the Monolith.
                  Quote: Yeah, well.
                  Why then do you need a T-50 when you can stuff a fat IL-76 with electronic warfare systems and NATO technology multiplied by zero :)

                  Good idea. Only EW today, not everything can be solved, unfortunately.
                  1. Come on
                    Come on 18 June 2016 03: 17
                    0
                    Quote: NEXUS
                    About how ... but in Syria, does our VKS blindly bomb ISIS? Do not talk nonsense, do not become like a critic who has no idea what he is talking about.


                    And where does the bombing of stationary targets and the ability to wage a "network-centric war"? Do you know what this "network-centric war" is? Russia has just begun not only to master, to think in this direction. This is a single tactical information platform, from an individual infantryman to the General Staff, everyone sees everything in real time. To do this, you first need thousands of UAVs of different classes, up to heavy ones, with satellite communications. It is necessary to provide everything with BIUS, from a platoon of infantrymen to armored vehicles and aircraft of all classes. Yes, and communication satellites still need to be launched a lot, and all this should still have its own methods of broadband communication, in order to have n of the item in live time at any distance. picture in live time. Until then, until the moon.

                    Quote: NEXUS
                    For example, the R-37 missile ... or from the ground with the S-400 complex (In the future, S-500). And there are also electronic warfare systems that are designed to mold AWACS.


                    The P-37 has a maximum range of 300 km, AWACS can see for 600 km and even more so AWACS have nothing to do in the air defense coverage area. Before approaching AWACS at these 300 km, in order to see it at all, one must also defeat all the interceptors. Moreover, interceptors of the F-35 and F-22 type will not only be inconspicuous for the Su-35, or T-50 radars, but they will not need to radiate anything, since the same AWACS will give them target designation. What electronic warfare can drown AWACS at 600km ?? Such electronic warfare systems themselves will radiate such power that they themselves will become easy prey for long-range anti-radar missiles, up to sea and ground-based cruise missiles.
                  2. Come on
                    Come on 18 June 2016 03: 57
                    0
                    Quote: Yeah, well.
                    Remind me how many tools at our disposal to withdraw AWACS from the game?


                    Remind please.

                    Quote: Yeah, well.
                    Dear, this phrase of yours says that you do not see the difference between a heavy fighter and a light one (at the same time, the F-35 with its AFAR, given its detection range, simply will not have time to release "far-hand" missiles, but in close combat, he is not a tenant) Just look at what is the range of the longest-range missile at the mattresses, the detection radius of the AFAR F-35, the detection radius of at least the IRBIS HEADLIGHTS, which is on the SU-35S (I will not say anything about the Belka), the radius of our far and middle arms and the oncoming the speed of convergence ... and you will understand everything.


                    The difference between a heavy and a "light" fighter is in the range, and the armament, the same F-35 in full body kit can carry up to 10 tons, and if we are talking about stealth, then there is enough space in the inner compartments for 4 long-range missiles. Wherein the refueling tankers, of which NATO has a damn thing, level the range of heavy fighters of the Su-35 type. For some reason, based on the maximum detection radius of the Su-35's HEADLIGHTS, you do not take into account that this distance refers to a huge aircraft with a giant RCS. Not only is the angle of the Su-35 HEADLIGHTS small in the front projection and not necessarily the F-22, the F-35 will go straight in the forehead, but they can approach from the side, but they also have an EPR the size of a seagull for this HEADLIGHT, then the Su-35 will be able to detect them only at a distance of no more than 100 km (this is still very optimistic), but he himself will be on the radar of the same AWACS for a long time, which will allow the F-35, F-22 to launch their long-range missiles (which are also only according to open data, they hit targets up to 300 km). In addition, NATO has decoys of decoys for opening air defense radars, or phased array fighters. If we are talking about such a fight, then all factors must be taken into account.

                    Quote: Yeah, well.
                    Georgia for example.


                    Georgia is not NATO, they also found an example for me. What does the EW use it against? Against the connection AWACS + F-22 / F-35? Yes, and this company is also hard to call successful, given the number of lost aircraft.

                    Quote: NEXUS
                    No question ... the incident with the destroyer Kuk ... and I'm not talking about the Khibiny, which are NOT on the SU-24, but about the coastal EW complexes, for example, the Monolith.


                    Well, what was that incident there? Are there reliable sources? Was this KUK command reporting that their destroyer was blinded and stunned from the shore? And since when did the Monolith become a means of electronic warfare? What can he do to Cook, except to detect him, if he is of course at a distance sufficient to detect and if he can overcome the electronic warfare of Cook himself?


                    Quote: NEXUS
                    Good idea. Only EW today, not everything can be solved, unfortunately.


                    That's it, I agree with that. Not only that, in my opinion it is too much to hope for electronic warfare, which against many technologies is helpless, or by virtue of its physical principles itself may become the original goal, if it really gets in the way, it’s not worth it. As an example, mattresses with their Grolers successfully extinguished Saddam's radars, but for complexes like the S-300 (later versions) and more modern, or against other non-radar detection tools that Saddam did not have, they would hardly have helped. In general, it’s better we will argue and discuss here before shit, but if only we would never know how it will be all in reality.
            2. Corsair
              Corsair 15 June 2016 15: 55
              +1
              Quote: vv3
              What nonsense do you know what modern warfare is? Modern warfare is a war of information technology and the ability to use them. What is a pure fighter? ..Just no words ...

              laughing Well, yes, of course, that's what I watch the Americans and remembered about the Thunderbolts about the B-52. Remember one simple engineering rule: The more complex the equipment and the more dependent on another set of the same systems, the less resistant it is to all kinds of breakdowns and failures.
              All current super-super-dupes are big show-offs for the Papuans, the main tasks are always solved with simpler and cheaper tools. Modern technologies are not invulnerable and you can always find a solution that in its simplicity will be cheaper and more efficient.
              1. Come on
                Come on 17 June 2016 20: 34
                0
                Quote: Corsair
                Well, yes, of course, that's what I watch the Americans and remembered about the Thunderbolts about the B-52


                And how will the use of these machines cancel the use of modern technology? Do you think that you want to use the B-52 and A-10 of the first series? You may be interested in how modernized machines differ from old ones, just modern avionics and other systems.

                Quote: Corsair
                Remember one simple engineering rule: The more complex the equipment and the more dependent on another set of the same systems, the less resistant it is to all kinds of breakdowns and failures.


                And you tell the developers of PAK Fa and Almaty, explain to them that it is better to rivet the T-72A and Mig-21 in thousands, because -

                Quote: Corsair
                All current super-super-dupes are big show-offs for the Papuans, the main tasks are always solved with simpler and cheaper tools.


                Quote: Corsair
                Modern technologies are not invulnerable and you can always find a solution that in its simplicity will be cheaper and more efficient.


                It seems that the leading world military-industrial complex are going the wrong way, they would have your wisdom ..
          5. Operator
            Operator 15 June 2016 13: 54
            +5
            The project is called PAK Front Aviation, the aircraft has the word "multifunctional" in its name. Therefore, the T-50 after being put into service will be no worse, but better than the Su-35S, to perform the functions of an interceptor, an air superiority fighter, a strike aircraft with a combat load of over 10 tons, a cruise missile carrier aircraft, an electronic warfare aircraft, etc. etc.

            The highly specialized F-35 bomber (with speed and maneuverability of the iron) and the F-22 fighter (without OLS and with slop AIM-120D) modestly smoke bamboo.
          6. dauria
            dauria 15 June 2016 15: 31
            +18
            F-35 is a fighter-bomber, and T-50 is a clean fighter


            Careful ... This религия the local site - "F-35 rubbish and drank dough." It's safer for you to attack Christianity - they will not immediately break laughing

            A couple more topics
            1 We urgently need a submarine with VNU, everything else is rubbish
            2 Ukrainians are greedy, cunning, ungrateful
            3 Putin is good, Duma and United Russia are thief, Medvedev is a clown
            4 Ka-52 is much better than Mi-28

            Stick and become a marshal. wink You are a Jew, can't you?
            1. NEXUS
              NEXUS 15 June 2016 15: 46
              +2
              Quote: dauria

              More careful ... This is the religion of the local site - "F-35 stuff and drank dough"

              I have my own attitude and opinion on this miracle of the American aircraft industry ... and it is somewhat at odds with the religion of "drank the dough" and with the religion of the "aircraft ahead of time."
              The F-35 is a commercial project for US satellites. Mattresses advertise it as a super stealth capable of performing a huge range of tasks. But for a "huge range of tasks" you need at least a good range and thrust-to-weight ratio.
              At the same time, the F-35 project itself, as a platform for 3 types of aircraft, is also crude, since we have not yet grown technologically to such a level that we can create an aircraft capable of equally well performing the functions of a fighter, bomber and attack aircraft, but the idea of ​​creating such a platform is quite interesting.
              Did you drink some dough there? Surely ... I think that in our programs, the military-industrial complex also saws hard. (Of course, the amounts are incommensurable).
              1. GSH-18
                GSH-18 16 June 2016 12: 42
                +1
                Quote: NEXUS
                At the same time, the F-35 project itself, as a platform for 3 types of aircraft, is also crude

                Well, not really like that. The deck modification of the F-35C is interesting from a technical point of view.
                The Americans' mistake lies in the wrong choice of the platform for modification. The single-engine version of the aircraft is not suitable for these purposes. All the more so with the thrust that Pratt & Whittney drove, and its "economy" that they stuck there. The result is a modest range and unsuitability for close combat compared to the same Su-30, for example ...
                It seems to me that he was blinded by amerikozy to vparit his wards and cut down on this dough. Look, our Israeli friends are happy without memory. lol
            2. PHANTOM-AS
              PHANTOM-AS 15 June 2016 21: 34
              +2
              Quote: dauria
              dauria

              Quote: dauria
              1 We urgently need a submarine with VNU, everything else is rubbish
              2 Ukrainians are greedy, cunning, ungrateful
              3 Putin is good, Duma and United Russia are thief, Medvedev is a clown
              4 Ka-52 is much better than Mi-28

              Ha ha ha laughing , You my respect !!!! + 100500
            3. GSH-18
              GSH-18 15 June 2016 22: 03
              +1
              Quote: dauria
              4 Ka-52 is much better than Mi-28

              But this is your point, dear dauria is fully true. And it corresponds to it since the post-Soviet times. As evidenced by the choice of our MO in favor of the Ka-50, which was run on banduks in Chechnya.
          7. GSH-18
            GSH-18 16 June 2016 13: 11
            +2
            Quote: Aron Zaavi
            F-35 is a fighter-bomber, and T-50 is a clean fighter

            Aaron, the T-50 is Stealth-MFI. Design Bureau Sukhoi has not been involved in clean fighters for a long time. It would be high time for you to know this already.
            Regarding F-35 .. Just compare the performance characteristics, and all questions will disappear. There’s nothing to argue about request I understand your joy that friends from overseas have been honored to sell you a propelled and unfinished aircraft with not the most advanced performance characteristics, EVEN in comparison with the earlier F-22.
            Well, you will be fine.
            And WE NEED A REAL 5th Generation Ultramodern Aircraft. And we will definitely have it yes
        3. PHANTOM-AS
          PHANTOM-AS 15 June 2016 12: 16
          +4
          Quote: Muvka
          Then, according to this criterion, the F-35 does not belong to the 5th generation, because it has a significantly lower thrust ratio than the T-50 with the current engines ...

          I didn’t care what happened with f-35. I want our aviation to be reliable and competitive.
          So that there are no such tragedies as in the Pushkin District, when the aces fly on air trash, and the disasters are not attributed to the "strokes" of the pilots.
          It is necessary to make our government work, and not to rave about urrya-patriotism and numerous "peremogs", but to raise the aviation industry at least to the level of the USSR in the 70-80s.
          1. Muvka
            Muvka 15 June 2016 12: 23
            +4
            Quote: PHANTOM-AS
            Quote: Muvka
            Then, according to this criterion, the F-35 does not belong to the 5th generation, because it has a significantly lower thrust ratio than the T-50 with the current engines ...

            I didn’t care what happened with f-35. I want our aviation to be reliable and competitive.
            So that there are no such tragedies as in the Pushkin District, when the aces fly on air trash, and the disasters are not attributed to the "strokes" of the pilots.
            It is necessary to make our government work, and not to rave about urrya-patriotism and numerous "peremogs", but to raise the aviation industry at least to the level of the USSR in the 70-80s.

            Those. the pilot could not have a stroke, and it was because of the engines that the pilot was found with an unexploded parachute? Or according to your ace from aces could not catapult?
            1. PHANTOM-AS
              PHANTOM-AS 15 June 2016 12: 51
              0
              Quote: Muvka
              Those. the pilot could not have a stroke, and it was because of the engines that the pilot was found with an unexploded parachute? Or according to your ace from aces could not catapult?

              http://topwar.ru/96716-smi-prichinoy-krusheniya-su-27-stal-insult-u-pilota.html

          2. NEXUS
            NEXUS 15 June 2016 12: 35
            +9
            Quote: PHANTOM-AS
            It is necessary to make our government work, and not to rave about urrya-patriotism and numerous "peremogs", but to raise the aviation industry at least to the level of the USSR in the 70-80s.

            Work is underway and this is visible. But nothing will appear at the click of a finger. And any new developments, accompanied by errors and miscalculations, cannot be avoided. It is important that the car was brought to a series, with a good modernization reserve.
            1. Come on
              Come on 17 June 2016 20: 43
              +1
              You have an interesting logic - it is not clear why, but you claim that the F-35, which has already been put into service, has made about 200 and is now actively mastering weapons and tactics, in your opinion a raw shit machine. But the PAK FA, which is in the only one, with huge restrictions (the choice of weapons is incomprehensible, not to mention the development of use, a temporary engine, etc.), a pre-production copy, you have "brought to mind" with a "good modernization reserve". Hats-caps ..
              1. NEXUS
                NEXUS 17 June 2016 20: 55
                +1
                Quote: Yeah, well.
                it’s not clear why, but you say that the F-35, which has already been put into service, has made about 200 pieces and is now actively developing weapons and tactics,

                Adopted? wassat And from this place in more detail, please. He went through the commission and all the shortcomings were eliminated?
                Active development of the budget is the place to be.
                Quote: Yeah, well.
                Your raw shit machine.

                Well, why the shit then? If the shit flew, it would be hard to live. And the F-35 is a crude platform that has to be stomped for at least 3 years before the normal result. What’s more, it’s not my words, but the developers’s decision.
                Quote: Yeah, well.
                And here is the PAK FA, which is the only

                Nothing that there are already 8 of them? And the 8th pre-production.

                Quote: Yeah, well.
                with huge limitations (the choice of weapons is incomprehensible, not to mention the development of use, a temporary engine, etc.)

                And with what limitations can you find out? The arsenal for the PAK FA is ready ... why did you get the idea that the weapons are unclear? From what the media did not announce? Work on the arsenal for the T-50 was carried out in parallel with the work on the fighter.
                As for the temporary engine, even with this engine, all the requirements for the 5th generation are met, and even a record for rate of climb is set.
                Quote: Yeah, well.
                you have "brought to mind

                The pre-production prototype means the car is ready for the series!
                Quote: Yeah, well.
                Hats, caps ..

                No, a statement of what is happening.
                1. Come on
                  Come on 18 June 2016 04: 41
                  0
                  Quote: NEXUS
                  Adopted? And from this place in more detail, please. He went through the commission and all the shortcomings were eliminated?
                  Active development of the budget is the place to be.


                  The US Marine Corps is already practicing tactics and the use of weapons. And something that needs to be eliminated or improved is necessary even for small arms, even after being adopted. Holland and Denmark allocate a budget for the purchase. What does budget development have to do with it? Do you seriously believe that Russian realities are possible in Western countries? With so many commissions and all sorts of centers of power, like the opposition, for example, the media and public opinion, etc.? I doubt that at least one $ goes to the side, in private accounts in offshore and the like.

                  Here, read the news on the F-35

                  https://www.f35.com/news

                  Quote: NEXUS
                  Well, why the shit then? If the shit flew, it would be hard to live. And the F-35 is a crude platform that has to be stomped for at least 3 years before the normal result. What’s more, it’s not my words, but the developers’s decision.


                  At least, judging by the lack of disasters and the collapse of the F-35, then probably a more reliable machine in the sense of flight characteristics, has not been in history yet. And the penguin flew a lot of hours .. Well, improvements, again, it depends on many factors, as for example the introduction of new technologies, which we say 5 years ago were not there.

                  Quote: NEXUS
                  Nothing that there are already 8 of them? And the 8th pre-production.


                  How can the first 8 be used for their intended purpose, when it is simply a development of technology, rather than combat units? These are not 8 ready T-50s, one was tested on one, the other on the other. What does the whole hemorrhoid still lie ahead, such as the use of weapons and tactics, confirmation of all the declared performance characteristics. So far, the T-50s have been taught to fly, which the F-35 has long been behind.


                  Quote: NEXUS
                  And with what limitations can you find out? The arsenal for PAK FA is ready ... where did you get the idea that the weapons are unclear? From what the media have not voiced?


                  Big doubts about the "readiness" of the arsenal for the PAK-FA. Where is this confirmed? When the first, crude T-50 came out just now, with avionics from the SU-35 and other "temporary" items (like the same weapons from the Su-35). Those early 7 units are not combat units, but flying laboratories for mastering certain nodes and technologies, they are hardly capable of fighting. As soon as Pak Fa is taught the stated performance characteristics, not only will everyone immediately recognize it, but will also see it.



                  Quote: NEXUS
                  The pre-production prototype means the car is ready for the series!


                  The raw, pre-production version is ready, which is a big shift of course. But now the "finishing" of all systems in a bundle will only begin. This pre-production so far almost all of the insides of the Su-35 consists of radars and weapons. Then we must also wait for the reaction of other supposedly interested countries, such as India, China, Vietnam, for example. After all, it is not enough to bring the car to mind, it needs to be financed somehow. And without a sufficient number of Pak Fa in the Russian Aerospace Forces, its combat effectiveness is very doubtful. Those 12 pieces that MO ordered are not even impressive.
                2. vv3
                  vv3 18 June 2016 11: 06
                  +1
                  I have served for a long time in aviation and have long concluded that wanting and being able are different concepts, I was taught to evaluate a military aircraft from "iron" and not listen to fairy tales from scientists and erudites. And even more often, the combat power does not depend on the capabilities of the aircraft, but on the ground And here is a complete virgin land ... The F-35 is a very serious enemy, it has no significant drawbacks, the Americans just swung too much and even with their computing base, not everything has yet been implemented ... The T-50 is not yet a combat aircraft, and a beautiful expensive toy with a set of fabulous properties that we all want to believe in. With iron it is all right, but with brains, sorry for the slang, not very ... And a breakthrough here, given our computing base, is not expected. Whether we like it or not, this is a fact, and nothing can be done about it. The operating modes of all systems will be simplified, brought to real completion, and this is correct. We can do what we can. The series will be small, and then in ten, twenty years, maybe we'll catch up ... This is just one type of weapon, not a miracle. ..THE MAIN question is combat information control systems, of course after nuclear weapons !!!
        4. vv3
          vv3 15 June 2016 13: 26
          -4
          The fifth generation airplane is, first of all, the advanced link of the information system for conducting modern warfare. We do not have an information combat system and we cannot speak about the advanced link. All other properties are secondary and are designed to make this information link as efficient as possible. Everything is clear , And the engine and your power supply is not to do with it. In the eyes of others, a speck of dust, but ....
          1. 33 Watcher
            33 Watcher 15 June 2016 14: 55
            +4
            Quote: vv3
            The fifth generation airplane is, first of all, the advanced link of the information system for conducting modern warfare. We do not have an information combat system and we cannot speak about the advanced link. All other properties are secondary and are designed to make this information link as efficient as possible. Everything is clear , And the engine and your power supply is not to do with it. In the eyes of others, a speck of dust, but ....


            Well gentlemen! I don’t even know the right ... Confused ... But it's enchanting! fellow This is masterpiece! fellow
            That's what you want, but I think it is worth applause! laughing
            1. sivuch
              sivuch 15 June 2016 15: 06
              +4
              Shaw, it became envious? Not everyone is given the opportunity to express it
              1. 33 Watcher
                33 Watcher 15 June 2016 17: 37
                +2
                Quote: sivuch
                Shaw, it became envious? Not everyone is given the opportunity to express it

                Well yes. Such:
                Quote: vv3
                Everything is clear to everyone
                I here myself, did not allow repeat
                1. The comment was deleted.
            2. AleksPol
              AleksPol 15 June 2016 15: 21
              0
              It’s interesting, but it’s not Gridasov’s spill? fellow fellow
              1. Corsair
                Corsair 15 June 2016 16: 01
                +7
                Quote: AleksPol
                It’s interesting, but it’s not Gridasov’s spill?

                laughing no, no, Gridasov would say about qualitatively different materials, other types of energy, and generally the plane’s motion scheme, some fields, vertical take-off due to antigravity (lasers are smasers inside the fields that exclude dispersion) - and this already pulls some kind of plane 8-9th generation.
        5. GSH-18
          GSH-18 15 June 2016 13: 33
          0
          It is with the advent of this fighter that we can say that the T-50, as a combat unit, has gained a real face and is ready for mass production in the interests of the VKS ”

          So that is all good Then only a series! yes
        6. Skif83
          Skif83 15 June 2016 20: 46
          +5
          Yes, all this is clear that the F-35 ... but the engine refinement 10-11 years ???
          Will they still be needed in 10 years? And if the technique was "brought" in such terms during the Second World War?
          The thought arises that with the shouts of "URYA-A-A-A!" everything is all right, but reality is somehow not very ...
      2. St Petrov
        St Petrov 15 June 2016 11: 52
        +40
        in the fact that we get a full-fledged 5th generation airplane in 11 years, in this you saw grace?


        from the promised land the urapatriots are not prevented from rejoicing in the wunderwafle f-35 because of the presence of defects.
        And they defend their position on all issues.
        It is not shameful for a Jew to be a patriot, but ours are constantly dipped in guano?

        Stop practicing self-flagellation. This is the most ridiculous and stupid feature of the Russian people.

        And with the words cheers-patriot then I want to ask, what kind of patriot are you if not cheers?
        A sobbing patriot?
        Weeping and suffering from excessive realism?

        Not good, like Solzhenitsyn Alexander Isaevich? sick of throwing this word - urapatriot.

        Equalizer ё%; # No.



        1. PHANTOM-AS
          PHANTOM-AS 15 June 2016 11: 57
          0
          Quote: s-t Petrov
          It is not shameful for a Jew to be a patriot, but ours are constantly dipped in guano?

          --------
          Quote: s-t Petrov
          No. Just wrote an article.

          In principle, such articles can be written every day and get a piece of bread for it. Journalists

          -------------------

          Are you talking to yourself, discussing, disproving, overthrowing, praising, criticizing ?! wassat
          1. St Petrov
            St Petrov 15 June 2016 11: 58
            +4
            another smile and your comment will not be so dull.

            Oppositionist

        2. Aaron Zawi
          Aaron Zawi 15 June 2016 12: 32
          +10
          Quote: c-Petrov

          from the promised land the urapatriots are not prevented from rejoicing in the wunderwafle f-35 because of the presence of defects.
          And they defend their position on all issues.
          It is not shameful for a Jew to be a patriot, but ours are constantly dipped in guano?

          Allow me. What does it have to do with cheers or not cheers? The F-35 flies on its own engine, with its own avionics, with weapons already developed for the internal compartment. The remaining problems relate only to the reliability of the software, and not to the strength or problems with avionics. Such problems as the PR is installed will subsequently occur in the T-50. Everything is like everyone else.
          1. Operator
            Operator 15 June 2016 14: 02
            -2
            F-35 The penguin is still in the status of a training aircraft and, in the opinion of the chairman of the US Senate Armed Forces Committee, will never withdraw from this status.
            1. Aaron Zawi
              Aaron Zawi 15 June 2016 15: 09
              +2
              Quote: Operator
              F-35 The penguin is still in the status of a training aircraft and, in the opinion of the chairman of the US Senate Armed Forces Committee, will never withdraw from this status.

              The sleep of reason.
          2. The comment was deleted.
          3. insular
            insular 16 June 2016 02: 04
            +9
            Quote: Aron Zaavi
            F-35 flies on a native engine, with native avionics, with weapons already developed for the internal compartment

            What does it mean not relatives? On PAKFA, are the engines of electrical tape bolted? No way to cruise supersonic? The range is not enough? Thrust ratio is not enough? And with what do you compare?
            And here is Hooray-patriotism, if even with the engines of the first stage the plane is quite among the top five?
            Everything else is false mockery and pulling facts.
            And if it’s completely honest: what about the F-35’s cruising supersonic engine with native engines? How is it with the 5th generation?

            You ought to sit on the priest evenly with your flag and not buzz about "non-native". We rejoice at OUR, (our!) Five, which is getting closer to the series. We (I) are delighted that work is underway on a new engine that will truly outperform analogue engines. OUR engine. And we rejoice at the current, OUR first stage engine, because it is a deep modernization of OUR time-tested engine. And every citizen of the Russian Federation has a reason to be proud because an aircraft of the 5th generation can be CREATED (and not bought) by not every country, especially a country in technological isolation.

            So gospada "former compatriots", if you defend your PURCHASE - your right. But our ACHIEVEMENT is to judge after creating an analogue.
        3. Bayonet
          Bayonet 15 June 2016 18: 46
          +1
          Quote: s-t Petrov
          And with the words cheers-patriot then I want to ask, what kind of patriot are you if not cheers?

          The meaning of the word Hooray-patriotism according to Ephraim:
          Hooray-patriotism - Recklessly arrogant, baseless, boastful, false patriotism.

          The meaning of the word Ur-patriotism according to Ozhegov:
          Cheers-patriotism - Flamboyant and noisy patriotism
      3. poquello
        poquello 15 June 2016 12: 17
        +4
        Quote: PHANTOM-AS
        Or is it important for you to settle down by reading the article diagonally?

        maybe I’m translating it for you: an airplane with the parameters which it plans to finally be in Moscow will be at 25 m, an airplane meeting the requirements of the technical specifications is ready for the series
        1. PHANTOM-AS
          PHANTOM-AS 15 June 2016 12: 33
          0
          Quote: poquello
          aircraft meeting the requirements of the technical specifications is ready for the series

          Translate into fig belay read carefully.
          Article."The installation lot is at least 12 vehicles, that is, one squadron. They do not include fighter aircraft that are currently undergoing a test phase. That is, in 2017, in the interests of the aerospace forces, completely new combat vehicles that meet the stage of military tests will be built and deliveredafter which it will be possible to talk about expanding procurement, ”said the head of the Center for Analysis of Strategies and Technologies (AST Center) Ruslan Pukhov.
          1. poquello
            poquello 15 June 2016 13: 09
            +2
            Quote: PHANTOM-AS
            Quote: poquello
            aircraft meeting the requirements of the technical specifications is ready for the series

            Translate into fig belay read carefully.
            Article."The installation lot is at least 12 vehicles, that is, one squadron. They do not include fighter aircraft that are currently undergoing a test phase. That is, in 2017, in the interests of the aerospace forces, completely new combat vehicles that meet the stage of military tests will be built and deliveredafter which it will be possible to talk about expanding procurement, ”said the head of the Center for Analysis of Strategies and Technologies (AST Center) Ruslan Pukhov.

            and what did you see there? a new squadron will be bought, it will determine where and how much to stick
      4. Voyager
        Voyager 15 June 2016 12: 26
        +22
        Dear!

        Before you start panic, you should carefully check the information you read. The article contains a mistake. At the moment, the PAK FA is powered by engines NOT from the Su-35 and these are NOT 117C engines, respectively. At the moment there are engines of the so-called "product 117", which are superior to engines from the Su-35 on all fronts and, moreover, they are engines 5th generation. Aircraft and its engines ready. And the fact that in the future the engines of the second stage will be even better - well, is this really a cause for concern and indignation? No.

        These problems with the confusion of product names have already existed for a long time, and in my opinion, those comrades who give such interviews, as well as comrades who in their posts allow themselves such shoals, need to be driven away.
        1. Muvka
          Muvka 15 June 2016 12: 29
          +7
          Quote: Voyager
          Dear!

          Before you start panic, you should carefully check the information you read. The article contains a mistake. At the moment, the PAK FA is powered by engines NOT from the Su-35 and these are NOT 117C engines, respectively. At the moment there are engines of the so-called "product 117", which are superior to engines from the Su-35 on all fronts and, moreover, they are engines 5th generation. Aircraft and its engines ready. And the fact that in the future the engines of the second stage will be even better - well, is this really a cause for concern and indignation? No.

          These problems with the confusion of product names have already existed for a long time, and in my opinion, comrades who give such interviews as well as comrades who in their posts allow themselves such shoals should be driven away.

          I will add a little:
          AL-41F1 [edit | edit wiki text]
          Unlike jet engines of the previous generation, despite the scheme similar to AL-31F,

          AL-41F1 (Product 117) consists of 80% new parts. The main ones are:

          low pressure compressor
          high pressure compressor
          plasma ignition system [4]
          combustion chamber [4]
          compressor with a diameter increased to 932 mm [3]
          afterburner combustion chamber
          full-view thrust vector control, ± 16 ° in any direction, and ± 20 ° of the plane [5]
          digital control system with elements of distributed parameters
          Thanks to these measures, the thrust force of the AL-41F1 engine increased significantly: 15000 kgf vs. 12500 kgf of the AL-31F, the service life increased (4000 hours versus 1000) and the reliability increased, fuel consumption decreased [3]. For the first time, a plasma ignition system was implemented, thanks to which the possibility of an oxygen-free engine start was provided.
      5. NEXUS
        NEXUS 15 June 2016 12: 29
        +8
        Quote: PHANTOM-AS
        in the fact that we get a full-fledged 5th generation airplane in 11 years, in this you saw grace?

        And do not remind you how much was brought to the Raptor series?
        Quote: PHANTOM-AS
        Or is it important for you to settle down by reading the article diagonally?

        The 8th prototype, this is the last step to the series. That is, the deadlines for the series will not be shifted. Why not enjoy it?
      6. Amnestied
        Amnestied 15 June 2016 12: 50
        +9
        Quote: PHANTOM-AS
        Where did you see the good news?
        in the fact that we get a full-fledged 5th generation airplane in 11 years, in this you saw grace?
        Or is it important for you to settle down by reading the article diagonally?
        Stop blowing soap pusiri, dear!

        I am no longer surprised at the pathological criticism (cretinism) of some individuals on the "ax". Shit the achievements of your own country is so "patriotic", beat the "uryakalok" the new slogan of the liberoids! Everyone's personal opinion is shit. For the right thing, mine - the enemy will be defeated, victory will be ours! Because when and if Sledgehammer does not know how to think, she knows how to think: for example, that a discussion, that is, a dialogue, is just an opportunity to point out to an opponent who thinks a lot with convolutions of cellulite on his butt - his place is in this country, that is, on pa.r.she.
      7. tilovaykrisa
        tilovaykrisa 15 June 2016 13: 24
        -6
        Yes, the glider is not a plane yet, without engines there will be 4 ++ but not the 5th generation, 11 years on the development of engines for such a period under Stalin would have leaned against the wall.
        1. Alexander Romanov
          Alexander Romanov 15 June 2016 14: 21
          +4
          Quote: tilovaykrisa
          Yes, the glider is not a plane yet, without engines there will be 4 ++ but not the 5th generation, 11 years on the development of engines for such a period under Stalin would have leaned against the wall.

          Under Stalin, for a post like yours, you would have been imprisoned without the right to correspond.
          1. tilovaykrisa
            tilovaykrisa 16 June 2016 12: 39
            +3
            and all VO for disclosing military secrets to the heap.
        2. silver_roman
          silver_roman 17 June 2016 09: 43
          +1
          I can imagine the situation: such an F-35 flies and sees a T-50 next to it, sweat creeps down my back, then this: "fuuuh, this is not the 5th generation, it has engines of the 1st stage" and relaxed!
          In fact, for the successful combat use of the current engines is more than enough, the other thing is that the new engines will give even more advantages!
          I am much more worried about his weapons, namely, RVV-SD and DB, AFAR operation, glider strength.
      8. Alexander Romanov
        Alexander Romanov 15 June 2016 13: 28
        +2
        Quote: PHANTOM-AS
        in the fact that we get a full-fledged 5th generation airplane in 11 years, in this you saw grace?

        And if, according to some estimates, they will be ready for them, in 30 years, will you believe this too?
        1. oblako
          oblako 15 June 2016 13: 44
          0
          For 30 years, it makes no sense to build an engine for an already flying airplane ... everything will become obsolete. And there is no precedent for this in history. Apart from direct-flow engines, but this is for devices of a completely different class ...
      9. GSH-18
        GSH-18 15 June 2016 13: 32
        +7
        Media: T-50 is almost ready to launch in the series.

        Quote: PHANTOM-AS
        Where did you see the good news?
        in the fact that we get a full-fledged 5th generation airplane in 11 years, in this you saw grace?

        Actually, 11 years for the production of a 5th generation aircraft from scratch is still a record. If you don’t know, then the F-22 amerikoses did longer and the F35 is still not officially adopted, and they turned out to be much more expensive and worse in real service (it flies only from specially equipped airfields). So do not need to create a pvnik out of the blue. We have everything along the T-50. We look forward to staging the first production batch in combat units yes
      10. GSH-18
        GSH-18 15 June 2016 13: 36
        0
        in 2017, in the interests of the Aerospace Forces, completely new combat vehicles that meet the requirements of the technical specifications will be built and delivered, which will have to go through the military test phase, after which it will be possible to talk about expanding procurement, ”said the head of the Center for Analysis of Strategies and Technologies (AST Center) Ruslan Pukhov.

        So that's great. Good news good
      11. GSH-18
        GSH-18 15 June 2016 13: 42
        0
        with our strategic partner in the field of military-technical cooperation - India, but also offering it to Algeria and Vietnam. Both countries pursue an independent military-technical policy and have their own funds for the purchase of modern weapons. Thanks to the alliance with them, the creation of the T-50 can be made cheaper by making it a mass fighter, ”said Pukhov.

        First you need to stir up yourself for yourself, and then trade export options! It's my opinion.
      12. maiman61
        maiman61 15 June 2016 14: 14
        +5
        Forgot when we rejoiced at every aircraft released for a year?
        1. Alexander Romanov
          Alexander Romanov 15 June 2016 14: 19
          0
          Quote: maiman61
          Forgot when we rejoiced at every aircraft released for a year?

          About 5 years ago it was.
          1. NEXUS
            NEXUS 15 June 2016 14: 22
            +1
            Quote: Alexander Romanov
            About 5 years ago it was.

            Back in the 13th, this was observed. hi
            1. Alexander Romanov
              Alexander Romanov 15 June 2016 14: 28
              +1
              Quote: NEXUS
              Back in the 13th, this was observed.

              Out of the window?
              The Russian Air Force will receive more than 200 aircraft and helicopters ...
              topwar.ru ›17559-vvs-rossii-poluchat ... 2013-godu.html
              This was stated by the commander in chief of the Russian Air Force, Major General Viktor Bondare. ... 200 aircraft in 2013! Maybe so, but I have doubts! Divide 200 by 12 and get about 16 planes and helicopters each month!
              Russian Air Force will receive a hundred new aircraft "Military ...
              topwar.ru ›27186-vvs-rossii-poluchat-sotnyu-novyh ...
              The Russian Air Force in 2014 will receive about a hundred new combat aircraft. ... According to him, in 2012, 35 different types of aircraft were handed over to the military, and in 2013, the UAC should supply the Russian Air Force with 60 new aircraft.
              April 23 2013
      13. zloybond
        zloybond 15 June 2016 21: 09
        0
        I hope it will not be equal for the service of YAK 130))) when only a condo saving from overheating in the parking lot, unlike the French, for example, drives up to the kamaz .... and overheating on a sunny day in a hot climate cuts out all the electronics through the lantern .... and it is necessary to overload everything all the fuck again ((((... and so on ...
      14. yehat
        yehat 17 June 2016 09: 58
        +1
        it’s not clear what good is in the news
        They promised to complete the Type 30 engine, postponed the deadlines several times, and now they again postpone it and immediately for 9-10 years
        avionics and weapons worked out to a large extent on other dry planes. so I perceive the news as negative, because nothing positive has been reported.
        I wonder if they cope with children's defects like damage to the case.
        ps without an engine type 30 Pak fa loses its main advantage over the f-22 - a paradise of strategic proportions.
      15. mihai_md2003
        mihai_md2003 18 June 2016 01: 27
        +1
        Exactly the same thought visited me all the time they were saying that there will be a new engine, and then they started talking about the 25 year old kapets. And what will happen to the aircraft released by that time will add them to 4 +++++?
    2. shooter18
      shooter18 15 June 2016 11: 57
      0
      I hope they will not immediately sell it!
      1. CORNET
        CORNET 15 June 2016 12: 06
        0
        To test them in hostilities (at least approximately ..) And there you can shout and Hurray ... hi
      2. NEXUS
        NEXUS 15 June 2016 12: 37
        +1
        Quote: shooter18
        I hope they will not immediately sell it!

        They won’t drive it for export yet ... Indians want a double and not a single option, as we are making a car for ourselves, and this has been discussed for a long time.
    3. oborzevatel
      oborzevatel 15 June 2016 15: 02
      +1
      Quote: Byshido_dis
      Very good news!!! Just do not stop ahead!

      What good is that?
      According to various estimates, the PAK FA will receive these engines only in 2025-2027. “Only then will it be possible to say that the T-50 became a real fifth-generation aircraft,”
  2. St Petrov
    St Petrov 15 June 2016 11: 45
    +8
    Why articles where a little more is written and here it is. here we’ll also build one glider and it will already meet all the requirements according to the technical specifications and so on.

    Maybe it has already been built? No. Just wrote an article.

    In principle, such articles can be written every day and get a piece of bread for it. Journalists

    1. Berkut24
      Berkut24 15 June 2016 12: 19
      +3
      Walk through the specialized forums and learn a lot. The last plane that took off is already fully equipped with avionics. In addition, previous specimens had many problems associated with "torsional deformation" - continuous experiments were carried out with composites. This news indicates that the problems with the load on the case have been finally solved. Because the problems with the case were solved, then the problem with the equipment for its assembly was also solved. How the problems with armament were solved. In theory, the plane is ready to "pass its final exams."
      Yes, there are still problems with the second stage engine, but even with the current engine, the aircraft may well demonstrate "Kuzkin's mother" to all existing and potential competitors of the 5th generation.
      I think that the engine of the second stage will be brought and tested exactly to the first modernization of the machine.
      And yes - the T-50 meets all the requirements of the technical specifications, which Bondarev has already stated, with the exception of the engine, for which Sukhoi is not responsible. But under the terms of the contract, production cars were supposed to take up duty on the 117C anyway.
      No panic or disturbance - all polymers are in place.
  3. AdekvatNICK
    AdekvatNICK 15 June 2016 11: 45
    +3
    AL-41F1 (Product 117) is a Russian aviation high-temperature turbojet dual-circuit engine with an afterburner and an all-aspect-control thrust vector of the “first stage”, developed by NPO Saturn for promising fifth-generation fighters. It is based on engines for 4th generation fighter aircraft AL-31F, AL-31FP with a controlled thrust vector and an engine that did not go into a series for fifth-generation fighter aircraft AL-41F, created for the MiG 1.44 project.
    1. xtur
      xtur 15 June 2016 13: 09
      +1
      > Based on engines for 4th generation fighters AL-31F, AL-31FP with a controlled thrust vector and the AL-41F engine for fifth generation fighters, which was not produced for the MiG 1.44 project.

      I had no idea that the T-50 gnawed at the MiG to such an extent. In essence, it is even worse than the Bulava story.
      1. GSH-18
        GSH-18 15 June 2016 14: 09
        0
        Quote: xtur
        I had no idea that the T-50 gnawed at the MiG to such an extent. In essence, this is even worse than the story with Bulava

        What does the Mig have to do with ??? Migu generally need to click less and do more business! Engines produces NGO "Saturn" and offers them to everyone. Instantly did not want (or could not), sold to "Sukhoi"!
  4. iouris
    iouris 15 June 2016 11: 45
    +1
    99,9% not 100.
  5. AlexSam
    AlexSam 15 June 2016 11: 47
    +2
    "... but also offering it to Algeria and Vietnam ..."

    what really there, let's immediately offer China!
  6. engineer74
    engineer74 15 June 2016 11: 49
    +7
    According to various estimates, these engines will receive the PAK FA only in 2025-2027. “Only then can we say that the T-50 has become a real fifth-generation aircraft,” he added.

    Either strategic disinformation, or stupidity ... what For one mention of such terms in the UEC, you can stay without a bonus! wink Lying yksperd!
    1. silver_roman
      silver_roman 15 June 2016 12: 21
      0
      Quote: engineer74
      Lying yksperd!

      Just the same timing is logical. Bringing to mind a completely new engine is an extremely difficult task. Initially, it was clear that the deadlines for 2020 were nonsense.
      1. engineer74
        engineer74 15 June 2016 12: 41
        +3
        Quote: silver_roman
        Quote: engineer74
        Lying yksperd!

        Just the same timing is logical. Bringing to mind a completely new engine is an extremely difficult task. Initially, it was clear that the deadlines for 2020 were nonsense.

        Nonsense for whom? For you? And for us this "nonsense" looks like production assignments! smile
        Generation 5 engines are taking "a little" longer than you think! Rumors about the collapse of this industry in Russia are greatly exaggerated and, believe me, by the 20th year there will be a serial engine on a serial aircraft! hi
        1. silver_roman
          silver_roman 15 June 2016 14: 12
          +2
          Quote: engineer74
          Generation 5 engines are taking "a little" longer than you think!

          Given the theme of the 5th generation in our country, I think the theme of the engine for him is about the same age.
          But considering that the AL-41F was for the MiG-1.44, then another engine is being made for the PAK FA and its design is not so old.
          Talking with different people with the military-industrial complex, I can say, I quote them.
          And the timeline for 2020 is not realistic. I do not know in which industry you work, but I have other information. True or not, another question. Time will tell.
          I really hope that the truth is closer to your deadlines, and not voiced in the article.
          hi
          1. engineer74
            engineer74 15 June 2016 15: 35
            +2
            I can explain: The engine for the MiG-1.44 (1.42) is an attempt to make an engine with the parameters of the 4th generation from materials and technologies of the 5th generation, it worked in principle, but it is very difficult and very expensive. The "second stage" engine for the T-50 is made of appropriate materials using appropriate technologies, and much less problems are expected with it. Cat then so ... hi
            1. silver_roman
              silver_roman 16 June 2016 08: 38
              0
              Those. second stage engine - will the 5th generation engine be fundamentally new? It will not be a refinement of existing units?
              And there were problems with the AL-31 family and subsequent?
              Thank you for the info.
  7. x.andvlad
    x.andvlad 15 June 2016 11: 52
    0
    Development continues. But, as always, engines are a weak point. Not too early going to sell abroad?
  8. Igor39
    Igor39 15 June 2016 11: 52
    +4
    Almost ready, is it not ready yet or is it ready? A flightless Fe 35 is already more than a hundred.
    1. Wedmak
      Wedmak 15 June 2016 12: 01
      -1
      And the flightless Fe 35 is already more than a hundred.

      Which really have not yet been debugged, with buggy software, hardware problems, etc. They themselves already acknowledge that they have in vain launched a raw fighter in a series. But when everything is debugged (they have no where to go), you still need to re-equip all these 200 machines, replace software, parts, etc. Sawed into grandmas!
      1. Igor39
        Igor39 15 June 2016 12: 07
        -4
        So, and PAK FA only by 2030 will be the 5th generation and the engines will have to be changed, too, the grandmas will fly away.
        1. Muvka
          Muvka 15 June 2016 12: 14
          +4
          Quote: Igor39
          So, and PAK FA only by 2030 will be the 5th generation and the engines will have to be changed, too, the grandmas will fly away.

          By your logic, the F-35 will then not become the 5th generation at all :)
          1. Igor39
            Igor39 15 June 2016 12: 22
            0
            Well, so it is written in the article now with intermediate engines, and engines of the 5th generation are expected by 25-27 only, according to our measurement, in the best case, by 2030 the engines will be, read it yourself.
            1. Muvka
              Muvka 15 June 2016 12: 32
              +2
              Quote: Igor39
              Well, so it is written in the article now with intermediate engines, and engines of the 5th generation are expected by 25-27 only, according to our measurement, in the best case, by 2030 the engines will be, read it yourself.

              Well, the F-35 has a much worse ratio of engine power to aircraft mass than the T-50 with existing engines, which by the way are not the same as on the Su-35.
            2. silver_roman
              silver_roman 15 June 2016 14: 17
              +2
              But what do you dislike about the intermediate Al-41F1? he fulfills the condition of the 5th generation, namely cruising supersonic.
              According to rumors, the new engine will be 10-15% more powerful and more economical.
              It is not uncommon in aviation and other types of troops that subsequent modifications of equipment are equipped with improved / new units and units. Take a look at the first samples of the su-27 and the modern su-35s.
              Anyway, during the operation of the T-50, childhood diseases will be identified, which will be corrected in subsequent modifications.
        2. Wedmak
          Wedmak 15 June 2016 12: 27
          +1
          As it may be called modernization. But riveting under 200 pieces of frankly raw, not brought to mind planes - is that cool?
          1. voyaka uh
            voyaka uh 15 June 2016 13: 38
            +3
            "But riveting under 200 pieces of frankly raw, unfinished planes - is that cool?" ///

            This is not the first time. winked . It was the same with the F-16, also brought to mind during use. But, unlike the F-35 (pah-pah - not a single accident in the air), the F-16 fought during the development period by dozens.
          2. The comment was deleted.
      2. voyaka uh
        voyaka uh 15 June 2016 12: 27
        +4
        There is no need to re-equip anything, replacement of parts is not required.
        The software is replaced right at the place of basing the aircraft with a laptop book.

        F-35 can fly 250 km with 1,2 MAX without afterburner, as it was
        provided for those. task.
        1. Muvka
          Muvka 15 June 2016 12: 35
          +5
          Quote: voyaka uh
          There is no need to re-equip anything, replacement of parts is not required.
          The software is replaced right at the place of basing the aircraft with a laptop book.

          F-35 can fly 250 km with 1,2 MAX without afterburner, as it was
          provided for those. task.

          Well, the T-50 with the current engines has the same outsourced speed. Just with new ones, it will equal 2,1 M.
        2. Wedmak
          Wedmak 15 June 2016 12: 44
          +3
          Excerpt from the article:
          Field tests also showed that "a lumbago of the air intake leads to sustained fire due to leakage of hydraulic fluid, and also a lumbago in the area of ​​the bypass flaps of the air intake channel, because of the fuel tanks located around it, leading to catastrophic damage to the airframe." The high likelihood of a fire developing on F-35 family aircraft upon receipt of combat damage or a lightning strike makes them unprecedentedly vulnerable. The problem of resistance to combat damage is so acute that it is urgent to immediately initiate tests for real shelling of an aircraft at a firing range before it begins to enter combat units and before the start of military tests in conditions close to combat ones planned for 2019.
          http://www.dogswar.ru/armii-mira/vooryjenie/7668-problemy-istrebiteli.html
          Was there a decrease in combat stability in TK?
          1. voyaka uh
            voyaka uh 15 June 2016 13: 26
            +1
            "lumbago in the air intake due to hydraulic fluid leak,
            and also a chamber in the area of ​​the bypass flaps of the air intake channel, "////

            Backbone and penetration of the fuselage can not stand now no fighter. There is nothing to be done. Even with damage to the planes the computer somehow copes, keeps the car on the automatic flaps, and getting shells or fragments into the engine system is fatal.
            1. Wedmak
              Wedmak 15 June 2016 14: 13
              +1
              and shells or debris entering the engine system are fatal.

              Not all, let’s say so. Twin-engine fighters are very tenacious. This is proved by our Su-25, and the American F-18, etc. And as for the F-35, you are right, one engine, the most complicated system of vertical lifting - any damage and all.
              1. voyaka uh
                voyaka uh 15 June 2016 15: 56
                +1
                Recently there was an article about the legendary MiG-21 - the best
                for its time. And - just one engine!
                The most common 4th generation F-16 also has one.
                Maybe the F-35 will cope with this "problem" (in quotes). smile
                1. NEXUS
                  NEXUS 15 June 2016 16: 01
                  +2
                  Quote: voyaka uh
                  Recently there was an article about the legendary MiG-21 - the best
                  for its time. And - just one engine!
                  The most common 4th generation F-16 also has one.
                  Maybe the F-35 will cope with this "problem" (in quotes).

                  All right, say ... just answer me what is the concept of using the 35th?
                  1. voyaka uh
                    voyaka uh 15 June 2016 16: 24
                    +3
                    "what is the concept of using the 35th?" ////

                    1) A calm passage over air defense at high altitude.
                    F-16, to break through to the goal you need to fly over
                    land at an altitude of 50 m - otherwise, knocked down.
                    I understand that you do not believe in stealth, but still ...
                    (see, see, see experimentally flying over
                    different air defense radars, not in theory).
                    2) F-35 is able to work in a network with ground forces
                    in real time. For example, a company company saw a target,
                    made a "touch" on the screen and in a second the pilot can attack her,
                    without any negotiations and delays. Or, on the contrary, the pilot saw
                    I’ll turn the target - I poked it on the screen, and the howitzer can immediately shoot there.
                    F-35 is "sharpened" for autopilot. Autopilot not in a straight line, but with complex
                    in turns of 0,9 max. The pilot is a weapon operator; he does not need to hold a pen.
                    1. NEXUS
                      NEXUS 15 June 2016 16: 41
                      +1
                      Quote: voyaka uh
                      1) A calm passage over air defense at high altitude.

                      Calm? Sure? But I know, I’m not sure ... maybe somewhere over Iraq or Afghanistan, it’ll completely pass to itself ... but let's say over China, Russia is unlikely ... and it doesn’t matter what its height will be. Moreover, the ceiling is 35 18th ... the most for relatively advanced air defense. Moreover, the argument about his fabulous EPR is very dubious, since it is all declared by the Americans themselves. It is surprising that so few zeros were attributed after the decimal point only.
                      Quote: voyaka uh
                      I understand that you do not believe in stealth, but still ...

                      There is no stealth technology (invisibility), there is a stealth technology. There is no absolute invisibility in principle. And so for me, the rate of mattresses on stealth is wrong. Although it works as a publicity stunt.
                      Quote: voyaka uh
                      2) F-35 is able to work in a network with ground forces
                      in real time.

                      With dense radio counteraction is also capable? In fact, the 35th can be effective in two cases. The first: with the complete or almost complete suppression of the enemy’s air defense systems. And the second: in the absence of the enemy’s air defense systems in general. Why? For the very reason, the price.
                      Quote: voyaka uh
                      F-35 is "sharpened" on autopilot.

                      So I say, in the absence of enemy air defense.
                      Therefore, I asked about the concept of using Lightning, as in the process of development and improvements, the concept of the mattresses themselves changed.
                      1. voyaka uh
                        voyaka uh 15 June 2016 17: 35
                        +2
                        We, of course, are famous suckers, what but nevertheless: we produce a variety of radars ourselves, plus we have captured and bought in eastern Europe from the former from the Warsaw Pact.
                        That is, we know how to determine and verify EPR at different frequencies,
                        and we don’t peck at the theoretical performance characteristics even of our closest allies (trust, but verify).
                        I already posted: F-35 stealth was tested experimentally by Israel, which at one time determined the choice of the F-35, and not the Saylet Eagle F-15, or F-18, for example.
                        I knew that you would not believe it, about stealth - and it turned out ...
                      2. NEXUS
                        NEXUS 15 June 2016 18: 59
                        +3
                        Quote: voyaka uh
                        I already posted: F-35 stealth was tested experimentally by Israel, which at one time determined the choice of the F-35, and not the Saylet Eagle F-15, or F-18, for example.
                        I knew that you would not believe it, about stealth - and it turned out ...

                        I’ll tell you one clever thing, the EPR values ​​of ALL shock mattress aircraft and even promising for the USSR, and then Russia has. It is on the basis of these data that radars and guidance systems, etc. are made ... There is a center for studying this topic in Russia .So how to see, and most importantly, to see these stealth, our air defense, missile defense, and airborne forces knew far in advance. That is why I told you that there is no invisibility, but there is stealth and not in all ranges. hi
                      3. voyaka uh
                        voyaka uh 15 June 2016 20: 10
                        +1
                        It is believed that the development of a new generation of radar takes 5-10 years.
                        That is, in Israel it is believed that it is confident to "decipher" what is flying
                        F-35 will learn in 10 years. Therefore, by then it will be necessary to do
                        "Argrade" stealth coatings to the next level. And they are thinking about it now.
                      4. NEXUS
                        NEXUS 15 June 2016 20: 25
                        +3
                        Quote: voyaka uh
                        It is believed that the development of a new generation of radar takes 5-10 years.

                        Already now, the development of ROFAR (radio-optical phased antenna array) in KRET is underway, which will replace AFAR ... and all this stealth tinsel will not prevent you from seeing planes, ships and so on with stealth technology. And as I understand it from open sources, studying this the question is, this will happen in the next two to three years (a maximum of 5 years). Does Israel or the United States have such technologies ...
                        At the same time, for example, our pilot, thanks to ROFAR, will be able to see not only the adversary’s plane at a distance of 500 km, but even see the pilot himself sitting in the cockpit.
                      5. silver_roman
                        silver_roman 16 June 2016 08: 49
                        0
                        Quote: NEXUS
                        Already now, the development of ROFAR (radio-optical phased antenna array) in KRET is underway, which will replace AFAR ... and all this stealth tinsel will not interfere at all

                        So it seems that the same T-50 has, in addition to the AFAR in the nose, operating in one seemingly X-band, in the wings there are already other radars with other ranges like L. Also, it seems, the rear hemisphere radar, the so-called "smart casing", although this is probably more classic aircraft.

                        By the way, an account about stealth is generally strange: there were many articles about the fact that this technology was recognized in the USSR as inefficient and abandoned, but then today, whoever can do stealth aircraft today? Although PAK FA possesses it, other qualities of the aircraft are not cut in its favor.
                        Question to voyaka uh:
                        You claim to have tested the penguin in practice. Have they been irradiated from all angles? Because, as a rule, its EPR of 0,00000000000 + 100 zeros 1 EPR exactly when irradiated in full face, so to speak.
                      6. NEXUS
                        NEXUS 16 June 2016 08: 54
                        +1
                        Quote: silver_roman
                        So it seems that the same T-50 has, in addition to the AFAR in the nose, operating in one seemingly X-band, in the wings there are already other radars with other ranges like L. Also, it seems, the rear hemisphere radar, the so-called "smart casing", although this is probably more classic aircraft.

                        PAK FA has at least 5 AFAR (possibly more than 5), the complex is called "Protein". By the way, Raptor has one AFAR.
                      7. silver_roman
                        silver_roman 16 June 2016 13: 20
                        0
                        so it is: one at a time in the tail and nose, in each wing and probably the sensors in the skin and even 5 pieces come out + OLS, but this is slightly different already.
                        In defense of the raptor, I will say that its radar is very good.
                      8. yehat
                        yehat 17 June 2016 10: 42
                        0
                        one? and I read, there are 2 options - with 1 or two + 2 antennas auxiliary, as on the old Su-24 reconnaissance
                      9. voyaka uh
                        voyaka uh 16 June 2016 11: 36
                        +1
                        For an attack aircraft, it’s more important that they aren’t seen from below by air defense radars,
                        not the enemy fighter’s radar in front.
                        F-35 was tested on air defense radars. The fact that radars are constantly being improved -
                        fact. I do not argue with that. But even in stealth they invest a lot of money on research. Most likely, airplanes will have the ability to change their EPR, manipulating all sorts of layers of coatings and sensors to fool missile defense.
                        There are developments and optically invisible coatings. Those. the case in Yugoslavia when a stealth was shot down by a rocket as directed by an optical sight was taken into account.
                      10. NEXUS
                        NEXUS 16 June 2016 12: 38
                        +1
                        Quote: voyaka uh
                        F-35 was tested on air defense radars.

                        You know, I am absolutely sure that our developers have taken everything into account, and with this in mind, the Irbis, the BEETLE-A, and the Belka perfectly "see" both the "lizard" and Lightning.
                        And mattresses can advertise stealth technologies and coatings for them for any length of time. hi
                      11. sivuch
                        sivuch 16 June 2016 13: 30
                        0
                        There was no optics
                        only P-18 + CHP-125
                      12. The comment was deleted.
                      13. Operator
                        Operator 15 June 2016 21: 04
                        +1
                        Why "decipher" a target mark already captured by the radar, which does not respond to "friend or foe" - this is a war, first they will shoot down, and only then they will figure out that they shot down (if there is time).

                        The contribution of RPMs to the overall reduction of EPR is less than purely layout solutions: elimination of right angles at the interfaces of glider elements, rounding of the extremities, curved air intakes or radar blockers, metallization of the cabin lamp, 180 rotation of all optoelectronic sensors in the idle position, radar antenna orientation away from external radiation, the absence of surface defects of the airframe, zigzag edges of the connectors, etc.

                        And RPM is simple as a nail - a chemical compound of iron oxide with other metal oxides in the form of a powder mixed with a polymer binder. Development is carried out only in the direction of increasing the thermal and mechanical stability of the RPM.
                      14. yehat
                        yehat 17 June 2016 10: 39
                        0
                        I will surprise you. For example, in India, old s-125 missiles are in service. They perfectly see f-35, because their radar has such frequencies. So how many years will it take to reproduce these devices? laughing
                      15. The comment was deleted.
                    2. Operator
                      Operator 15 June 2016 16: 58
                      -1
                      "Quiet passage over the air defense at high altitude" - yeah, of course, but what about the meter-long "Sky-M" and "Niobium-SV" radars?

                      Feel the difference in EPR of the AGM-129 ALCM cruise missile in three ranges (data from the Almaz Central Design Bureau), the front hemisphere at a perspective of + -45 degrees:
                      - centimeter range 0,02-0,05 sq.m
                      - decimeter range 0,05-0,1 sq.m
                      - meter range 1-1,4 sq.m.

                      By the way, in the armed forces of the USA and Israel there are no meter radars am
                      1. voyaka uh
                        voyaka uh 15 June 2016 18: 05
                        +1
                        "By the way, in the armed forces of the United States and Israel there are no meter radars" ////

                        Sure. These are surveillance radars, not air defense. They can say "something is flying there."
                        And transfer to the S-300 radar air defense.
                        Those will say: "Thanks, but we don't see anything yet, we are waiting, sir."
                        And then they will say: "We see, but we cannot aim the rocket yet, let the adversary come closer."
                        And then: "now he is in our centimeter range ... caught, my dear, fire!"

                        Of course, the adversary-stealth will not be the first to harm the air defense station, he is a gentleman.
                      2. Operator
                        Operator 15 June 2016 21: 25
                        0
                        Russian meter radars are no longer observable - they are included in the automatic tactical data transmission system, to which the S-400 air defense systems are connected, and their anti-aircraft missiles are equipped with a radio command guidance system and an active GPS - the coordinates of the target received by the meter radar are transmitted to the missile until until her GOS captures the target.

                        The decimeter and centimeter radars of the S-400 air defense system at this time track only immediate threats to themselves, such as attacks with gliding bombs or anti-radar missiles. All sorts of "Knights" and other smaller air defense systems, which are also connected to the tactical data transmission system, are plowed into the self-defense of the radar.

                        And what can the F-35 do against a meter radar that sees it beyond 100 and more than km: if it launches a planning bomb or missile, it will be knocked down (it’s not for nothing that the new air defense systems are called air defense / missile defense).

                        So the only thing that remains F-35 is a good old breakthrough to the target at a low altitude below the level of the radio horizon of the meter radar (which are only ground-based due to the large size of the antenna) and the air defense radar.

                        And then Su-35С and T-50 will come in handy, which in simple weather conditions will find F-35 with their OLS at a distance of 50 km, and in difficult weather conditions with their radars at a distance of 150 km.
                    3. yehat
                      yehat 17 June 2016 10: 35
                      0
                      what nafig stealth "over" air defense can be?
                      stealth technology only allows you to approach at low altitude up to a distance when the aircraft can use weapons. nor any "at high altitude" or "will pass the air defense", in principle, is not expected, because the only result of such behavior is an attempt to eject.
                      stealth - this is not invisibility in all ranges, but only a decrease in the target’s detection range under strictly observed conditions of the irradiation geometry. At the same time, I add that only passive equipment should work on the plane, which makes it extremely vulnerable to all kinds of surprises.
                      For example, if drying was accidentally flown 30-40 kilometers and spotted by a penguin optoelectronic station, he will never know what is under attack until the rocket hits him.
                  2. The comment was deleted.
                2. sivuch
                  sivuch 16 June 2016 09: 26
                  0
                  You tell this to Uncle Misha (Zeiger) from Voronline. He convinces everyone that 2 dvigla is good, 1 is bad. Almost according to Orwell -2 legs are bad, 4 legs are good.
                  In reality, everything is somehow more complicated. When Belyakov and Waldenberg convinced the military that the 29th should be made 2-engine, one of the main arguments was that it would be enough to lose aircraft in accidents in peacetime.
              2. The comment was deleted.
            2. silver_roman
              silver_roman 15 June 2016 14: 23
              0
              I’m not sure about the lumbago, but as you know, one of the prototypes, like the 4th (or 5th) T-50, had a fire. Nevertheless, the aircraft sat down, having received very significant damage.
              And on the F-35, problems are not limited to lumbago. There is a problem with vibrations, problems with software, many systems sometimes simply do not work.
              The Americans really set extremely difficult tasks for the F-35.
            3. yehat
              yehat 17 June 2016 10: 29
              0
              I recall that the Mig-17 returned to the base more than once after several hits of the gun in the area of ​​the ONE engine. This is the case for the protocol.
          2. The comment was deleted.
        3. Operator
          Operator 15 June 2016 14: 09
          +1
          250 km on 1,2 M - this is the whole 12 minutes of flight (and then it crashes) laughing

          That’s why this nonsense should be sent from koment to koment, when everyone knows the thrust-to-weight ratio of the T-50 and its 1,5 times the big off-speed supersonic speed?
          1. voyaka uh
            voyaka uh 15 June 2016 15: 51
            +5
            I did not say a bad word against the T-50 fellow .
            Naturally, a fighter gaining dominance in the air
            speed should be greater than that of the shock.

            I’m not stopping you from massively posting the praise of the Su-35 smile
            1. Operator
              Operator 15 June 2016 17: 10
              -2
              I respect you for the objectivity and uniqueness in this quality among your Israeli colleagues at the HE.

              But for an impact F-35 with a low thrust ratio, supersonic flight does not solve anything - for him the main thing is to fly as far as possible (with air defense) or with a greater combat load (in the absence of air defense) and return. And this can only be done at subsonic cruising speed.

              The Penguin will not master the air battles at 600 km / h, nor will it escape at supersonic speed from the Su-27 and Su-35С, not to mention the T-50.
      3. The comment was deleted.
      4. GSH-18
        GSH-18 15 June 2016 20: 43
        0
        Quote: Wedmak
        Which really have not yet been debugged, with buggy software, hardware problems, etc.

        This is the American version of the simultaneous release of a beta version in order to obtain more information during operation for correction and correction, and most importantly for the dough! The option is pleasant with useful. They can afford it. Dough in the states a lot. We are going our own way, and so far quite successfully yes
  9. Wedmak
    Wedmak 15 June 2016 11: 54
    0
    And what name is assigned to him, interesting? SU-31?
    1. Muvka
      Muvka 15 June 2016 12: 15
      0
      T-50? Or the Su-50.
      1. Igor39
        Igor39 15 June 2016 12: 26
        +1
        Su 27 was in the prototype T 10, I think it will be SU 39
        1. Wedmak
          Wedmak 15 June 2016 12: 34
          +1
          I think it will be XU NUMX

          Su-39 is a Su-25-based attack aircraft. A small series was. Numbers finished on Su-Xnumx, experimental now. 47 was not a number, 31 was an even number, it was either for bombers or for passengers. So there must be something after 50 though.
          1. silver_roman
            silver_roman 15 June 2016 14: 24
            0
            or they can start on the basis of Almaty. Type su-16. It wasn’t either.
      2. NEXUS
        NEXUS 15 June 2016 14: 13
        +1
        Quote: Muvka
        T-50? Or the Su-50.

        Perhaps the "name" will be, in the manner of the SU-47 "Berkut" ... somehow, for example, "Sapsan", "Korshun" or something else ..
    2. GSH-18
      GSH-18 15 June 2016 21: 56
      0
      Quote: Wedmak
      And what name is assigned to him, interesting? SU-31?

      I think the name will be beautiful, like the T-50 itself yes
    3. INTA_VEGA
      INTA_VEGA 17 June 2016 16: 41
      0
      They would rather leave the T-50. Vaughn "Armata", it seems, continues to respond to the name of the R&D topic. Moreover, the name "T-50" has already been steamed up with might and main.
  10. AVA77
    AVA77 15 June 2016 12: 06
    +1
    No panic, there is a glider, there is electronics, there is a plane, the engines will be. So far, and so in the lead!
    1. Voyager
      Voyager 15 June 2016 12: 28
      +4
      Yes, there are already engines, I wrote above which :) alarmists live)
      1. AVA77
        AVA77 15 June 2016 12: 55
        0
        Thank you, I am now in the know.
  11. Stabilization
    Stabilization 15 June 2016 12: 11
    +2
    Aircraft turbojet dual-circuit engine with afterburner and controlled thrust vector (SWT) of generation 4 ++, created by NPO Saturn by order of Sukhoi Design Bureau OJSC for Su-35S fighter, is one of the Product 117 engine options.

    The 117C engines differ from the AL-31F in increased thrust (14500 kgf vs. 12500), longer overhaul life (4000 hours versus 1000), lower fuel consumption, controlled by the thrust vector, and also allow the aircraft to develop supersonic speed without using afterburner, which is one of the basic requirements for a fifth generation fighter.
    1. Muvka
      Muvka 15 June 2016 12: 36
      +2
      Quote: Stabilization
      Aircraft turbojet dual-circuit engine with afterburner and controlled thrust vector (SWT) of generation 4 ++, created by NPO Saturn by order of Sukhoi Design Bureau OJSC for Su-35S fighter, is one of the Product 117 engine options.

      The 117C engines differ from the AL-31F in increased thrust (14500 kgf vs. 12500), longer overhaul life (4000 hours versus 1000), lower fuel consumption, controlled by the thrust vector, and also allow the aircraft to develop supersonic speed without using afterburner, which is one of the basic requirements for a fifth generation fighter.

      117 without C, which on the T-50 has 15000 kgs.
  12. kolkulon
    kolkulon 15 June 2016 12: 15
    +1
    Now all the enemies will sing: “But Bondarev said ... where do you want quilted jackets up to the fifth generation!” There is not enough evil.
  13. Wolka
    Wolka 15 June 2016 12: 20
    0
    the faster they are launched into the series, even with engines similar to those of the Su-35, the better, and by 2025-2027. something from the sixth generation will be ready ...
  14. Eugen
    Eugen 15 June 2016 12: 24
    -1
    A good glider and weak engines are a bad car,
    a bad glider and good engines are a bad car.
    Only in the case of a successful glider and good engines can one count on an advantage over the technique of the future potential adversary, and not over the technique of previous periods. It is a pity that such forecasts are made by the timing of the appearance of engines. The glider appeared earlier than the engine for more than 10 years! And the main question is whether it is possible to hold out in favorites this time and even more. (is there another sense? The car is outdated without having received its top engine?)
    1. Muvka
      Muvka 15 June 2016 12: 26
      -1
      Quote: Eugen
      A good glider and weak engines are a bad car,
      a bad glider and good engines are a bad car.
      Only in the case of a successful glider and good engines can one count on an advantage over the technique of the future potential adversary, and not over the technique of previous periods. It is a pity that such forecasts are made by the timing of the appearance of engines. The glider appeared earlier than the engine for more than 10 years! And the main question is whether it is possible to hold out in favorites this time and even more. (is there another sense? The car is outdated without having received its top engine?)

      Where did you get the idea that engines are bad? The capacity was increased, the thrust-to-weight ratio was excellent, the overhaul life was 4 times increased. Well, let him eat a little more fuel, with our oil reserves there is no problem at all.
      1. Eugen
        Eugen 16 June 2016 09: 05
        0
        "Bad" is figuratively, the meaning was a little lower in the text and in the article itself. It is with the new engine that the car will correspond to the fifth generation. There is a technical assignment, there is a requirement for the power plant and the overhaul interval does not yet apply to these points. And about the thrust-to-weight ratio, the article also indicates that a large one is required.
      2. Eugen
        Eugen 16 June 2016 10: 26
        0
        Quote: Muvka
        Where did you get the idea that engines are bad? The capacity was increased, the thrust-to-weight ratio was excellent, the overhaul life was 4 times increased. Well, let him eat a little more fuel, with our oil reserves there is no problem at all.

        By the way, I did not call them bad.
    2. Operator
      Operator 15 June 2016 14: 16
      -3
      The T-50 at the moment has no rivals in the fifth generation - the Penguin sucks, and the Raptor is clearly worse in terms of maneuverability, speed and detection tools (lack of OLS).

      The situation is even better - the potential adversary has stopped the release of the Raptor, all funding has been allocated to stamping any Penguins, the development program for the 6 generation fighter is missing as a class.
      1. yehat
        yehat 17 June 2016 10: 56
        +1
        Urya-Putriot you are ours, how am I tired of listening and reading this.
        1. Yes, the F-22 is not available, but the Americans ALREADY have 200 aircraft in 2 versions, moreover, in combat units. And how many t50 in combat units? right 0.0001 pieces.
        and judging by the pace of orders, the amount in the best forecasts will be equal only after 4-5 years.
        so here the advantage is not with us for a long time.
        2. Do not blame for what you do not know. They sacrificed range on the F-22 for the sake of improving TTX, and although it is slightly inferior to the T50, it remains quite dangerous even in close combat, and it more than compensates for the lack of an optoelectronic system with a very advanced complex of passive long-range observation combined with a slightly better stealth coefficient. It is worth mentioning the armament - in recent years, the Americans have adopted a number of very not bad missiles of near and medium radius, so this is a rather dangerous machine.
  15. edeligor
    edeligor 15 June 2016 12: 43
    0
    In my opinion, the proposal to Vietnam and Algeria to pay further costs for the car is to drain the project. About the engines of the 2nd stage with the readiness already in 25-27 years, confirmation of the above. Attention question! We have a new project or SU-35 and the further development of the topic of SU-27 and MIG-29 is our everything ?! Somehow not so, I imagined the further development of our aviation ...
    1. Muvka
      Muvka 15 June 2016 12: 51
      +2
      Quote: edeligor
      In my opinion, the proposal to Vietnam and Algeria to pay further costs for the car is to drain the project. About the engines of the 2nd stage with the readiness already in 25-27 years, confirmation of the above. Attention question! We have a new project or SU-35 and the further development of the topic of SU-27 and MIG-29 is our everything ?! Somehow not so, I imagined the further development of our aviation ...

      Payment of development costs for FGFA, not T-50. These are slightly different cars. Amers, by your logic, also has no new niche. F-35 is just an evolution of the F-4 theme.
      1. edeligor
        edeligor 16 June 2016 07: 01
        0
        Quote: Muvka
        F-35 is just an evolution of the F-4 theme.

        How much! Justify weakly?
  16. The comment was deleted.
  17. Zaurbek
    Zaurbek 15 June 2016 13: 00
    0
    The 5th generation heavy fighter cannot become massive. It is expensive to buy, with maintenance. And as correctly written above, the T-50 is more of an Air Force fighter than an attack plane. The cursed F-35 has much more shock capabilities. And do not forget the F-35 (120 cd each) sold voluntarily and compulsorily to the rich countries of Western Europe, Japan and Israel, and we will need to sell the T-50 (also priced at about 100 cd) to India, Vietnam, etc. And these are not the richest customers. A fighter priced at around 50 cd can become massive. Though not fully meeting the 5th generation in terms of visibility, but with avionics and an engine from the T-50.
    1. NEXUS
      NEXUS 15 June 2016 13: 04
      +1
      Quote: Zaurbek
      and we will need to sell the T-50 (also at a price of about 100 cdoll)

      Hindus want to see their FGFA double, and it will be a completely different fighter than our T-50. At the same time, the sale of a heavy fighter for export has never been a mass. 70% of fighter aircraft that they sell is LFI. hi
      1. xtur
        xtur 15 June 2016 13: 17
        +2
        > 70% of the fighter aircraft sold is LFI.

        this is probably why, in a country with a market economy, they are doing everything to ditch the design bureau that traditionally develops these same LFI - MiG
        1. NEXUS
          NEXUS 15 June 2016 13: 24
          +1
          Quote: xtur
          this is probably why, in a country with a market economy, they are doing everything to ditch the design bureau that traditionally develops these same LFI - MiG

          Already not. We sell MIG-29K to Indians, on the approach of MIG-35 with AFAR ... they are slowly resuscitating the design bureau. There is a modernization of the 31st, and the development of the PAK DP ... in general, it’s not worth burying Mikoyanovtsy.
    2. Muvka
      Muvka 15 June 2016 13: 11
      0
      Quote: Zaurbek
      The 5th generation heavy fighter cannot become massive. It is expensive to buy, with maintenance. And as correctly written above, the T-50 is more of an Air Force fighter than an attack plane. The cursed F-35 has much more shock capabilities. And do not forget the F-35 (120 cd each) sold voluntarily and compulsorily to the rich countries of Western Europe, Japan and Israel, and we will need to sell the T-50 (also priced at about 100 cd) to India, Vietnam, etc. And these are not the richest customers. A fighter priced at around 50 cd can become massive. Though not fully meeting the 5th generation in terms of visibility, but with avionics and an engine from the T-50.

      Sell ​​is sold, but no one is buying. Even Japan makes its own. Not to mention Europe.
      1. The comment was deleted.
      2. Zaurbek
        Zaurbek 15 June 2016 13: 27
        0
        However, look at the number of F-35s released and release plans ...
        1. Muvka
          Muvka 15 June 2016 13: 40
          0
          Quote: Zaurbek
          However, look at the number of F-35s released and release plans ...

          I saw these plans. Take a look at how many failures. And I can also plan what I can.
      3. voyaka uh
        voyaka uh 15 June 2016 13: 42
        +2
        The first aircraft have already arrived in the Air Force: England, Norway, Australia, the Netherlands.
        There is an assembly of aircraft for Italy, Japan, Israel.
        1. Zaurbek
          Zaurbek 15 June 2016 18: 51
          +2
          The main air forces of NATO countries Israel and Japan, just did not refuse. And 100 failed planes out of 3000 planned ... This is still a good business. And at the same time, Eurofighter’s funeral with Rafale
          1. Operator
            Operator 15 June 2016 21: 33
            0
            It’s wonderful that the surrogate F-35, which has not yet reached combat readiness, is not only shoved across Western countries to the glory of Lockheed Martin, but at the same time they will bury F-15, F-16, Rafali and Eurofighter am
            1. Aaron Zawi
              Aaron Zawi 15 June 2016 22: 32
              +1
              Quote: Operator
              It’s wonderful that the surrogate F-35, which has not yet reached combat readiness, is not only shoved across Western countries to the glory of Lockheed Martin, but at the same time they will bury F-15, F-16, Rafali and Eurofighter am

              The sadness of the mind.
      4. The comment was deleted.
  18. varela
    varela 15 June 2016 13: 00
    0
    PAK FA engines will receive only in 2025-2027. “Only then can it be said that the T-50 became a real fifth-generation aircraft”

    And if tomorrow is war?
    1. Muvka
      Muvka 15 June 2016 13: 12
      -3
      Quote: varela
      PAK FA engines will receive only in 2025-2027. “Only then can it be said that the T-50 became a real fifth-generation aircraft”

      And if tomorrow is war?

      If tomorrow is a war, read what Poplar-M, Sineva, Mace, Yars, Voevoda is. This is what we will fight if F-22 and 35 will oppose us.
      1. Igor39
        Igor39 15 June 2016 13: 35
        +2
        And I thought against F 22 and F 35, C 300 and C 400, as well as Shell C and BukM2.
      2. varela
        varela 21 June 2016 00: 25
        0
        If tomorrow is a war, read what Poplar-M, Sineva, Mace, Yars, Voevoda is. This is what we will fight if F-22 and 35 will oppose us

        It looks like you need to read at least something about the types of weapons that you have listed.
        Learn, then try to be smart.
  19. 76SSSR
    76SSSR 15 June 2016 13: 09
    +1
    in 2025-2027

    There is already the 6th generation in all the need to run.
    1. NEXUS
      NEXUS 15 June 2016 13: 21
      +1
      Quote: 76SSSR
      There is already the 6th generation in all the need to run.

      To do this, you must first run around generation 5+ fighters (with elements and components for the next generation). Do aircraft builders have a 50% rule, in which, if the product is more than 50% innovative, the aircraft will almost certainly not fly, or fly, but with a huge pile of problems.
      1. Genry
        Genry 15 June 2016 14: 09
        0
        Quote: NEXUS
        Do aircraft builders know if there is such a 50% rule, in which, if the product has more than 50% innovative, the aircraft will almost certainly not fly, or fly, but with a huge pile of problems.

        It seems that the 6th generation will switch to hypersound.
        Direct-flow engines. Folding wing. Huge overloads for maneuvering at high speeds. Plasma resistant materials. Fuel...
        What will happen from the previous one?
        1. NEXUS
          NEXUS 15 June 2016 14: 15
          +1
          Quote: Genry
          What will happen from the previous one?

          And what did the SU-35S receive from the PAK FA? Take an interest ... many of the best practices and components before putting on the T-50 were rolled in on the 35th.
          Not only hyper sound is on the verge, but for example, ROFAR will also replace AFAR ...
  20. Hammer
    Hammer 15 June 2016 13: 13
    +4
    Ndaaa, and remember how in the year 10 they poured about the series at 16? =) I'm afraid now for the armature
    1. Muvka
      Muvka 15 June 2016 13: 20
      -3
      Quote: Hammer
      Ndaaa, and remember how in the year 10 they poured about the series at 16? =) I'm afraid now for the armature

      Recall in what year the F-35 was supposed to start entering the army? And actually, by the end of the year, he may well go into the series.
  21. Vadim237
    Vadim237 15 June 2016 13: 13
    +1
    A large purchasing series T 50 should not be expected - in view of the high cost.
  22. Zomanus
    Zomanus 15 June 2016 13: 16
    0
    Great news. While they bring the engine to mind, they will have time to experience the rest in full.
    And with the new engine it will be generally miraculous.
    In the meantime, they will work out the assembly technology of the series,
    EW, weapons and other things.
  23. voyaka uh
    voyaka uh 15 June 2016 13: 32
    0
    The fact that the T-50 is being promoted by all means is correct. In addition to engines
    there will be a bunch of problems that will be solved as
    flight practices.
    What is the stealth coating ... Americans changed the mixture
    several times on F-117, F-22, until they achieved sustainable coverage
    for F-35, which is applied once for the entire service life. And then
    It must be checked before each departure.
    1. Muvka
      Muvka 15 June 2016 13: 44
      0
      Quote: voyaka uh
      The fact that the T-50 is being promoted by all means is correct. In addition to engines
      there will be a bunch of problems that will be solved as
      flight practices.
      What is the stealth coating ... Americans changed the mixture
      several times on F-117, F-22, until they achieved sustainable coverage
      for F-35, which is applied once for the entire service life. And then
      It must be checked before each departure.

      In fact, as far as I know, the invisibility problem is being solved with no coverage.
      1. voyaka uh
        voyaka uh 15 June 2016 14: 14
        0
        Form, of course. Like all stealth. But the form is not enough.

        It’s necessary to cover the whole-whole plane with good half-centimeters of a cunning mixture,
        (or several layers of mixtures in series) which
        absorbs radio waves. Then, in combination with the form, there is little noticeability.

        Do you need to check the coverage?
        Do you need to check the planes and the fuselage under the cover?
        There are rivets, joints of carbon and metal ... The headache is still that.
        1. Voyager
          Voyager 15 June 2016 16: 36
          0
          I remember in our country they work on and use these mixtures and coatings a long time ago. If the United States had (and seems to remain) big problems with the F-22, this does not mean that there will be serious difficulties with the T-50
          1. NEXUS
            NEXUS 15 June 2016 16: 44
            +2
            Quote: Voyager
            If the United States had (and seems to remain) big problems with the F-22, this does not mean that there will be serious difficulties with the T-50

            I guess ours will go so to speak on a hybrid path ... coverage and "cold plasma" in the future, and possibly soon.
            1. Voyager
              Voyager 15 June 2016 21: 57
              +1
              We have been talking about plasma for a long time, but there is a lot of talk about it, but the results ...
          2. yehat
            yehat 17 June 2016 11: 06
            0
            you forgot something. Working with chemistry is a serious industry. And Americans have long been leaders in the chemical industry and equipping laboratories for experiments. So we have much more problems working on new materials than in the USA.
        2. yehat
          yehat 17 June 2016 11: 04
          0
          the work on the stealth is complex, and so much so that they also change the cockpit filling - the pilot's seat, his helmet, etc.
      2. The comment was deleted.
    2. yehat
      yehat 17 June 2016 11: 03
      0
      Americans under 117 still had one secret stealth machine.
      I don’t remember what is called - they speak very little about her, but she was and it was on her that technology began to actively circulate. I also know that on the stratospheric balls the observations did something. So with the coating work goes much longer.
  24. Skubudu
    Skubudu 15 June 2016 13: 50
    +1
    quote: "but do not meet the fifth generation requirements for weight-to-traction ratio"
    Taken from Wikipedia:
    Product 117 (T-50)
    weight 1350 kg, afterburner thrust 15000 kgs, specific thrust = 11.1 kgf / kg
    F-119-PW-100 (F-22)
    weight 1750 kg, afterburner thrust 15876 kgs, specific thrust = 8.94 kgf / kg
    From this it can be seen that the mass to thrust ratio of Product 117 is significantly higher than that of F-119-PW-100. If the American engine in this value corresponds to the 5th generation, respectively, and edition 117 corresponds to the 5th generation.
    And ed.30 will generally be the top engine in the world, judging by the stated indicators
    1. Muvka
      Muvka 15 June 2016 13: 56
      -1
      Quote: Skubudu
      quote: "but do not meet the fifth generation requirements for weight-to-traction ratio"
      Taken from Wikipedia:
      Product 117 (T-50)
      weight 1350 kg, afterburner thrust 15000 kgs, specific thrust = 11.1 kgf / kg
      F-119-PW-100 (F-22)
      weight 1750 kg, afterburner thrust 15876 kgs, specific thrust = 8.94 kgf / kg
      From this it can be seen that the mass to thrust ratio of Product 117 is significantly higher than that of F-119-PW-100. If the American engine in this value corresponds to the 5th generation, respectively, and edition 117 corresponds to the 5th generation.
      And ed.30 will generally be the top engine in the world, judging by the stated indicators

      He is American, and therefore consistent. And ours is so ...
    2. RedBaron
      RedBaron 15 June 2016 15: 09
      -1
      Quote: Skubudu
      quote: "but do not meet the fifth generation requirements for weight-to-traction ratio"
      Taken from Wikipedia:
      Product 117 (T-50)
      weight 1350 kg, afterburner thrust 15000 kgs, specific thrust = 11.1 kgf / kg
      F-119-PW-100 (F-22)
      weight 1750 kg, afterburner thrust 15876 kgs, specific thrust = 8.94 kgf / kg
      From this it can be seen that the mass to thrust ratio of Product 117 is significantly higher than that of F-119-PW-100. If the American engine in this value corresponds to the 5th generation, respectively, and edition 117 corresponds to the 5th generation.
      And ed.30 will generally be the top engine in the world, judging by the stated indicators

      The meaning of comparing thrust on afterburner is zero.

      do not meet the requirements of the fifth generation in terms of weight and traction, as well as fuel consumption. The technical complexity of engine refinement requires very long bench and flight tests, which will affect the overall development time of the T-50, ”said Pukhov.
  25. atamankko
    atamankko 15 June 2016 14: 09
    0
    It’s difficult, for a long time, but they approached the series, you need to be happy, not grumble.
  26. Chrysostom
    Chrysostom 15 June 2016 14: 28
    0
    The fifth generation plane began to be created twenty years before the collapse of the Union. It seems to have been created (it was called MIG-39), then it turned out that this was not a fifth generation plane, they sold it to the Chinese, and now they have definitely created the fifth generation with the exception of the engine. For these almost 40 years, despite the collapse of the country, aircraft construction has moved to a completely different level
    1. NEXUS
      NEXUS 15 June 2016 14: 33
      +1
      Quote: Chrysostom
      It seems to be created (MIG-39 was kind of called),

      MIG-1.44 ... No one sold it to China. It began to be developed at about the same time as the Raptor. Then there was the SU-47 "Berkut" for the Navy ... but the prototype did not last longer.
      1. Voyager
        Voyager 15 June 2016 16: 44
        0
        They were developed almost at the same time, the Golden Eagle seems to have even stood on the wing several years earlier. According to the people who worked on it, as well as their creative heirs, it was possible to conclude that the characteristics of 1.44 were simply amazing
        1. NEXUS
          NEXUS 15 June 2016 16: 48
          +1
          Quote: Voyager
          They were developed almost at the same time, the Golden Eagle seems to have even stood on the wing several years earlier. According to the people who worked on it, as well as their creative heirs, it was possible to conclude that the characteristics of 1.44 were simply amazing

          No ... The golden eagle was a few years later. At first it was made for the Air Force, then after the Air Force refused it, they began to do it for the Navy with the wings folding forward (in the future).
          And MIG-1.44 was primarily outstanding because of speed characteristics - more than 3000 km / h (if sclerosis does not change me 3200km, but I can be wrong).
          1. Voyager
            Voyager 15 June 2016 22: 03
            0
            Su-47 - the first flight September 25, 1997
            MiG 1.44 - the first flight on February 29, 2000
            Information slipped that the MiG took off a year earlier, but all this is really not important, who is the first, who is the second .. all the same they did one thing. The golden eagle always loved, like many, but to see the MiG on that MAX summer was happy for me. The whole era and the vidok to this day is very futuristic.
            1. NEXUS
              NEXUS 15 June 2016 22: 19
              +1
              Quote: Voyager
              Su-47 - the first flight September 25, 1997
              MiG 1.44 - the first flight on February 29, 2000

              The first work on the creation of the MiG 1.44 began in 1979, development was carried out in the Design Bureau. A.I. Mikoyan. The aircraft was designed as opposed to the American F-22 Raptor

              The project developed first as a promising fighter model with a CBS for the USSR Air Force (modernization of the Su-27, the theme of the S-37) as part of an industry research program since 1983, but this topic was closed in 1988. After that, the customer of the project was the Navy of the USSR, which predetermined the further development of the project as a promising aircraft for aircraft carrying cruisers.
              Beginning of work on SU-47 in the year 83-84.
              Something like this. hi
      2. yehat
        yehat 17 June 2016 11: 09
        0
        It is a fact that China has knowledge of most of the project documentation in an instant 1.44. Sold or who stole - I do not know. But they already have information and technologies. This is a fact.
  27. cap
    cap 15 June 2016 14: 36
    0
    "Again the question of personnel arises. Here are vacancies for the ASZ. Nobody will give the actual state, this is from open data.
    https://rabota.yandex.ru/search/companies?text=%D0%9E%D0%90%D0%9E%20%D0%90%D0%A1

    % D0% 97 & rid = 11453 & wt = 5 & from = wizard¤cy = RUR
    Head Secretary
    schedule: full day
    30 000 R
    2 June
    trudvsem.ru

    The collector of the hulls of metal vessels 4 categories
    schedule: full day
    Add to favorites 52 300 Р
    2 June
    trudvsem.ru

    Ship fitter 3 categories
    schedule: full day
    42 000 R
    2 June
    trudvsem.ru


    Turner 4 bits-5 bits
    schedule: shift
    65 200–74 300 Р
    29 May
    trudvsem.ru

    Head of OOTiZ
    schedule: full day
    s / n not specified
    24 May
    trudvsem.ru

    Electrical Installation Manager
    schedule: full day
    s / n not specified
    23 May
    trudvsem.ru

    Head of Department of General Director
    schedule: full day
    s / n not specified
    23 May
    trudvsem.ru

    With a salary as requested. hi "

    It seems that the series will definitely go. I wrote another 11 numbers.
    1. cap
      cap 15 June 2016 15: 07
      0
      It seems that the series will definitely go. I wrote another 11 numbers.

      I ask forgiveness made a mistake.
      Careers
      Komsomolsk-on-Amur Aviation Plant invites qualified specialists to work:
      Top Management:
      Engineering staff:
      Working professions:

      Admission to training in occupations is possible. Students are paid a scholarship. Production workers are paid a monthly incentive allowance during the first year of work. Nonresident production workers are provided with a bed in a hostel.
      Please note: The scholarship to students in the following professions has been increased: turner, milling machine operator, fitter MCP, machine tool operator with PU, collector-riveter. Komsomol members up to 18 rubles, nonresident citizens - up to 000 rubles. An increased scholarship will be established for those who have entered into an agreement between 20/500/01.04.2016 and 31.05.2016/XNUMX/XNUMX.

      For all questions of interest, contact the Staff Recruitment Bureau.
      Телефоны: +7 (4217) 52-65-26, 52-65-55, 52-60-61.
      Email: [email protected]
      1. Alexander Romanov
        Alexander Romanov 15 June 2016 15: 19
        0
        Quote: cap
        : Increased scholarship to students in the following professions: turner, milling machine operator, fitter MCP, machine tool operator with PU, collector-riveter. Komsomol members up to 18 rubles, nonresident citizens - up to 000 rubles.

        And what, there is always a set. A student arrives, receives half a year of his guaranteed 18, and then workdays come.
        The bottom line is that the production standards for the yesterday’s student and for the pros with the personal brand are the same. The master will fulfill them and get his 30, but yesterday’s student will not. He will eventually receive his 000, the next month the story repeats and he sends everyone and everything at all the well-known address and the factory takes another student in its place.
        This is the reality at the factory.
  28. Chrysostom
    Chrysostom 15 June 2016 14: 39
    +2
    It is a pity that the military hydroaviation was abandoned. An excellent aircraft in 1986 was created at the Beriev Design Bureau, but only 2 cars were created.
    1. NEXUS
      NEXUS 15 June 2016 14: 43
      +1
      Quote: Chrysostom
      It is a pity that the military hydroaviation was abandoned.

      No, they didn’t abandon ... they are slowly resuscitating ..
      By 2020, Be-12 anti-submarine amphibious aircraft will be replaced by A-40 hydroplanes. This was stated by the chief of naval aviation of the Black Sea Fleet, Colonel Gennady Zagonov, RIA Novosti reported.

      Earlier, in July 2015, a senior source in the leadership of the Navy claimed that the military would order an anti-submarine aircraft based on the Be-200 amphibian, which, in turn, was created in the 1990s using the backlog of the A-40 aircraft.
  29. Ros 56
    Ros 56 15 June 2016 14: 56
    +1
    Guys about what the argument is, you get information from somewhere, one woman said. None of you really know anything, just continuous rumors and fragmentary information. Will you run into each other. Only one phrase - the T-50 is almost ready to launch in a series, it means a lot. Let's hope that everything will be fine. I think that even with engines from the 35th, ours will not yield to the F-35. By the way, who knows how many planes and helicopters were put into the troops over the past year? hi
  30. Skubudu
    Skubudu 15 June 2016 15: 14
    +1
    I am more concerned about the issue of arming the T-50, in particular medium and long-range missiles. I did not find where information on missile launches from internal compartments and generally on the T-50 firing
    1. Ros 56
      Ros 56 15 June 2016 15: 23
      0
      Quote: Skubudu
      I am more concerned about the issue of arming the T-50


      This question let it bother potential enemies, you have something to worry about. It is evident that it is not supposed to know what is not allowed. Normal military theme. request
    2. yehat
      yehat 17 June 2016 11: 14
      0
      if you are ready to run in a series, these issues have already been resolved.
      especially since it’s been a year since they’ve been working on weapons.
      and with weapons that the same company already uses on other types of aircraft.
  31. hunt1
    hunt1 15 June 2016 17: 28
    0
    all the same, it’s interesting which index will be assigned to t-50. SU-37 or maybe SU-50 or something else?
    1. yehat
      yehat 17 June 2016 11: 14
      0
      Su-22m to match the F-22 fellow
  32. vmo
    vmo 15 June 2016 18: 25
    0
    Well done and clever !!!!!!
  33. Garris199
    Garris199 15 June 2016 21: 01
    0
    New engine by 2025-2027? Cut it another 11 years? Isn't that a typo?
  34. evge-malyshev
    evge-malyshev 15 June 2016 21: 06
    0
    It is incomprehensible that most commentators took such a great job on a great car. It is said that the installation batch of 12 cars will be operated in combat units. And these are not test pilots. While mastering the existing version (and it will take a lot of time: taxiing, take-off, approach, landing, day-night flights, flights in simple and difficult weather conditions, flights in a group, flights for military use (air - ground targets) , flying in a REP environment, and many, many other tasks ...) engines will arrive in time, the absence of which is currently so worried by most commentators.
  35. Tektor
    Tektor 15 June 2016 21: 54
    0
    June 20 will be a momentous event. In fact, this date allows to make a list of two countries so far whose armed forces will consist of airplanes gaining superiority in the airspace of the 5th generation of their own design and production. The Russian Federation is behind by about 12 years, but not in quality, but in quantity. The country number 3 is still hard to imagine, because To meet the requirements of the 5th generation, Chinese aircraft are not yet suitable. For the full realization of their potential, 5th generation aircraft need a satellite system constellation. In Russia, it will be the TSA, which is necessary to ensure full tactical awareness in real time while maintaining the secrecy of operations. And only after the full deployment of the CEN, the Su-50 will reach its initial operational readiness.
  36. Ustinov 055 055
    Ustinov 055 055 17 June 2016 11: 32
    0
    Conclusion to such a mine dear readers, we have a glider stuffed with the latest equipment of the 5th generation but the 4 ++ engine, unfortunately we will not have a full fighter of the 5th something transitional. But this is good, otherwise I thought that everything was ruined. Looks like small strengths still remained
    1. Come on
      Come on 18 June 2016 04: 04
      0
      I don’t want to touch on a bunch of other upcoming problems, like with software, using weapons, etc., because so far only the glider has been brought to a state of readiness, it’s too early to talk about combat readiness .. But there are questions about stealth from certain positions. It is enough to look at how this is decided on the F-22 and the open T-50 engines. From the front hemisphere of the T-50, there may well be a stealth with low EPR, but do not unmask the location of the engines or increase the EPR and other factors that contribute to detection?
  37. Torins
    Torins 17 June 2016 11: 43
    +1
    How slowly the process is going on ((The Su-35 is certainly a great aircraft, but the VKS needs a new breath in the form of a new generation of technology! Do not let us down !!!
  38. zenion
    zenion 17 June 2016 22: 57
    0
    It is sad! He's probably as ready as Windows 10.