Advanced 130-mm tank gun from Rheinmetall AG

62
On June 13, the next exhibition of arms and military equipment Eurosatory started in Paris. During this event, the leading enterprises of the military industry demonstrate both already known models and completely new developments. One of the most interesting exhibits of the current exhibition was presented by the German company Rheinmetall AG. The French salon became the site for the first public demonstration of a promising tank gun with enhanced characteristics. For armament modernizable and promising tanks It is proposed to use a 130 mm caliber gun.

It should be noted about the development of promising 130-mm tank guns became known in February of this year, and the work started even earlier. A few months ago, some working materials of Rheinmetall AG concerning the development of tank weapons leaked to free access. On the published presentation slides, it was pointed out that the existing fleet of tanks could be updated in two stages, implying the use of different means and objectives corresponding to the current state of affairs.

The first stage, designated as “modernization”, implies further improvement of existing systems. It was proposed to create a new version of the existing 120-mm tank gun and ammunition for it. By increasing the pressure in the barrel bore, it is proposed to increase the overall effectiveness of the gun by 20%. Additional means of increasing the parameters of the tank in this case should be a new fire control system and other equipment.


General view of the gun. Photo Bmpd.livejournal.com


The second stage of the update was called the New caliber. As is clear from the name, in this project it was proposed to create a tank gun of increased caliber. By increasing the caliber from the existing 120 to the prospective 130 mm, according to the project requirements, the overall effectiveness of the implement can be increased by 50%. In addition, it was noted that the marketing phase of the project should start in 2016 year. Other dates for the implementation of the new project were not specified.

As one of the main prerequisites for the development of advanced high-caliber guns indicated the emergence of new Russian armored vehicles. As far as is known, the new Russian tank and infantry fighting vehicle built on the basis of the Armata platform differ from other vehicles in a higher level of protection. As a result, to combat such armored vehicles is required weapon with relevant characteristics. The answer to such challenges and should be a new 130-mm gun.

Interestingly, the slide from the presentation of Rheinmetall AG, published by foreign media, dated 2015 year. Thus, by the time of its wide publication, the development of new projects could begin, including high-powered tools.

As it became known a few days ago, at the beginning of this year, the company-developer completed the design work, and then proceeded to manufacture the first tool of a new type. The assembly of an experienced product was completed in May. Shortly after the assembly was completed, a new type of weapon was sent to France to participate in the Eurosatory 2016 exhibition as one of the elements of the exposition of Rheinmetall AG. After the exhibition, scheduled for June 17, is completed, the prototype instrument will set off again and be taken to the test site.

The purpose of the new project 130-mm guns is to improve the combat qualities of the upgraded and promising tanks due to the growth of the main parameters of the gun. The existing 120 caliber mm gun used on a number of modern tanks of several countries was used as a reference when developing a new project. In addition, the published information suggests that the new tool is largely a development of the existing sample, the design of which uses a significant number of innovations associated with an increase in caliber.

"Reference" gun has a caliber 120 mm and is equipped with a barrel length 55 caliber. In the new project, it was decided not only to increase the caliber, but also to change the proportions of the main units. Thus, the length of the trunk, envisaged by the new project, has been reduced to 51 caliber (6,63 m). Nevertheless, despite a slight decrease in the length of the barrel, the gun must show higher characteristics.


Slide with the first mention of the development of the 130-mm gun. Figure Alternalhistory.com


The instrument retains the overall architecture of the predecessor. The design of the product is divided into the barrel, breech, recoil devices and a number of other units. At the same time, the design of individual units was modified in connection with an increase in caliber and an increase in the overall dimensions of the ammunition. The principles of work, however, remained the same.

The gun of the new type gets a smooth barrel length 55 calibers. The barrel receives an ejector for the release of powder gases and is equipped with a heat shield. Muzzle brake is not provided. The barrel gets a large size chamber, corresponding to the size of the new ammunition. The length of this part of the trunk is increased by about one and a half times. The barrel should be chrome-plated to increase the resource to the desired values. The new barrel has a mass at the level of 1400 kg. For comparison, the 120-mm gun barrel weighed less than 1350 kg.

The tool retains the general structure of the breech and its devices. In particular, a vertical shutter has been preserved, which loops below the bore for loading. The 130-mm system is proposed to be equipped with hydropneumatic recoil devices similar to those used previously. Two hydraulic recoil brakes and one hydropneumatic knurler are applied. At the same time, the design of recoil devices was strengthened in order to ensure operability under increased loads.

A curious feature of the new project is the approximate preservation of the dimensions and weight of the gun and its installation, despite the increase in caliber and characteristics. The overall weight of the gun mount is reportedly 3 t, the system length is on the order of 7 m. For comparison, the 120-mm gun had a total length of 6,6 m and weight over 3,3 t. Apparently, these features of the project are due to the desire of its authors to preserve the size of the new weapon at the level of the existing parameters, which will significantly simplify the modernization of modern tanks and the development of promising machines.

The development of two types of ammunition for use with the 130-mm gun has been announced. Proposed armor-piercing substandard and high-explosive fragmentation projectiles. When creating a new ammunition used some developments on existing products of similar purpose. At the same time, certain measures were taken to improve performance. Due to the wide use of existing developments, it was decided, as before, to use unitary projectiles.

Advanced 130-mm tank gun from Rheinmetall AG
The barrel and breech of the gun. Also projectiles caliber 120 and 130 mm. Photo Bmpd.livejournal.com


To defeat tanks and other armored vehicles, the new 130-mm gun must use an armored-pierced feathered sub-caliber projectile. This product receives a tungsten core responsible for breaking through the reservation. In addition, the proposed use of partially burning cartridges. A new type of armor-piercing projectile must be equipped with a propellant charge based on new powders. The latter feature of the project should lead to an additional increase in the speed and muzzle energy of the projectile, increasing its fighting qualities.

The second new ammunition for promising guns - high-explosive fragmentation projectile with programmable detonation. It is reported that such a projectile is developed on the basis of the existing DM11, intended for use with 120-mm cannons Rheinmetall AG. Probably, the 130-mm high-explosive fragmentation projectile will be equipped with a programmable fuse with a data cable placed inside the sleeve. Such equipment will allow the tank fire control system to establish the exact time of the explosion of the projectile, which will allow to hit a specific target at a given distance from the combat vehicle.

Most of the body of such a projectile should be occupied by an explosive charge. An interesting feature of the DM11 product is the use of a one-piece metal body capable of splitting into fragments during an explosion, as well as a head compartment with striking elements in the form of tungsten balls. When an explosive is exploded, the projectile is capable of creating a dense field of ready-made fragments, directed forward. In addition, a certain number of fragments are scattered to the side of the longitudinal axis of the munition.

The growth of the bore gauge allows you to significantly increase the size of the propellant charge, which should accordingly affect the general characteristics of the gun. It is argued that the new 130-mm gun in overall effectiveness should be approximately one and a half times as large as the existing 120-mm system (barrel length 55 caliber). This allows you to appropriately improve the fighting qualities of the upgraded and advanced armored vehicles.

According to the company-developer, in the near future, after the end of the Eurosatory 2016 exhibition, a prototype of a 130 mm caliber gun should go to the test site. There it is planned to begin full-fledged tests of the prototype with shooting with the use of different ammunition at various targets. Performing such work will pave the way for the next phases of the project.


DM11 projectile scheme. Figure Andrei-bt.Livejournal.com


Tests of 130-mm tank guns have not yet begun, but the timing of the implementation of certain phases of the project has been roughly determined. Thus, it is planned to bring the instrument to mass production by the middle of the next decade. Approximately in 2025, the first serial guns of the new model can be rolled off the Rheinmetall AG conveyor.

There is information about the plans of the developer regarding the use of advanced weapons on armored vehicles. According to current plans, the first carrier of the 130-mm gun can be a new modification of the main battle tank Leopard 2. Due to significant changes in the design of the gun in comparison with the existing weapons, it was decided to develop a new turret, in which the 130-mm system will be mounted. To simplify the manufacture of towers and the modernization of tanks, the new tower will be unified by the diameter of the shoulder strap with the existing product, which will make it possible to dispense with serious modifications of the body of the armored vehicle.

Another carrier 130-mm gun can become a promising main tank, planned to jointly develop the efforts of German and French enterprises. This combat vehicle could be developed over the next decade with the adoption of the 2030 of the year. For obvious reasons, the details of this project are unknown. There are only a few estimates and assumptions, among which there are data on the possible use of tools of increased power caliber 130 mm.

The new project of tank guns from the company Rheinmetall AG is of great interest. Previously, specialists from several countries have already attempted to create a new tank gun of increased caliber, but so far none of these projects have reached mass production and operation in the military. For one reason or another, all new designs of tank guns of the 140 caliber or 152 mm have not progressed further to the ground tests, and some have not even left the design work stage.

Having started the “marketing phase” of its project, the German company announced the characteristics of the gun and the approximate completion dates. Mass production will be prepared by the middle of the next decade. At the same time, the gun will be able to become a weapon of the modernized tank Leopard 2, and in the future its use on advanced combat vehicles is not excluded. Nevertheless, it should be noted that at the moment these are only plans that can be executed or remain unfulfilled.

From a technical point of view, the new project is of great interest. By changing a number of important parameters of the existing gun while maintaining its general scheme, it is claimed that it was possible to achieve a significant increase in the basic characteristics. With these innovations, a tangible improvement in the fighting qualities of the gun and the tank as a whole is achieved.


View of the breech. Photo Bmpd.livejournal.com


At the same time, the new project raises some questions. In addition, the preservation of some of the features of the basic 120-mm gun, which caused certain claims, may again lead to some unpleasant consequences. First of all, there are problems with the selected ammunition and type of loading. The Rheinmetall 120 mm cannon uses several types of unitary projectiles that are not compact and lightweight, which leads to corresponding problems.

Of all the existing tank carriers 120-mm guns of German development, only the Japanese "Type 90" is equipped with an automatic loader. In the crew of other tanks there is a loader who has to work with long and heavy ammunition. As can be seen in the existing images, the new 130-mm projectiles receive an elongated sleeve, which leads to an increase in the size and weight of the product. As a result, the maintenance of a new gun by the crew can turn into an even more difficult task. Thus, the development of a new tower or a new tank as a whole will require the creation of new systems, which can be a very difficult task.

In the context of the characteristics of ammunition for 130-mm guns should be noted the expected increased efficiency of high-explosive fragmentation projectile. Increasing the size of the projectile allows you to increase both the weight of the charge of the warhead and the number of damaging elements. In combination with the possibility of undermining at a given point in time, this will lead to a significant increase in combat qualities, as well as seriously expand the range of combat missions solved by the tank.

In its current form, the new project of Rheinmetall AG is of great interest from a technical and tactical point of view. A promising tool, like other new developments, is not without some flaws, and also leaves some reasons for complaints. Nevertheless, a prototype of the gun is already ready, which will be put to the test in the near future. According to the results of inspections in the conditions of the landfill, the project will be finalized. Several such cycles will allow the developer to improve the project and bring it to mass production, or to determine the futility of the instrument.

Thus, by the middle of the next decade, a new weapon for main tanks with enhanced characteristics may appear on the international arms market. Moreover, some possible carriers of such weapons have already been selected. The company Rheinmetall AG, showing the finished sample 130-mm tank gun, showed that it intends to claim leadership in the field of weapons for armored vehicles, and also wants to get the relevant sector of the market, which is not occupied by competitors. What will be the response of competing organizations, including Russian developers of armored vehicles and weapons for it, time will tell.


On the materials of the sites:
http://janes.com/
https://rg.ru/
http://defence.ru/
http://alternathistory.com/
http://bmpd.livejournal.com/
Our news channels

Subscribe and stay up to date with the latest news and the most important events of the day.

62 comments
Information
Dear reader, to leave comments on the publication, you must sign in.
  1. -25
    15 June 2016 05: 48
    Advanced 130-mm tank gun from Rheinmetall AG

    There is an error in the title of the article. laughing Probably "Unpromising 130-mm tank gun ...". What is the prospect here ??? Although, there is the prospect of deceiving German taxpayers, who hardly understand guns.
    1. +9
      15 June 2016 06: 23
      Of all the existing carrier tanks 120-mm guns of German design, only the Japanese "Type 90" is equipped with an automatic loader.


      And the French "Leclerc", without AZ?
      1. +1
        15 June 2016 08: 33
        with a gun
      2. +5
        15 June 2016 09: 43
        Quote: cosmos111
        Of all the existing carrier tanks 120-mm guns of German design, only the Japanese "Type 90" is equipped with an automatic loader.


        And the French "Leclerc", without AZ?

        Leclerc has a French-designed cannon.
      3. +6
        15 June 2016 12: 06
        Some experts from several countries have already made attempts to create a new tank gun of increased caliber, but so far none of these projects have reached the serial production and operation in the army. For one reason or another, all new projects of tank guns of the caliber 140 or 152 mm have not progressed further than field tests, and some have not even left the stage of design work.

        It was because of the end of the Cold War and progress in tanks. Now Armata appeared as a razdrozhitele) if she put her 152 gun then 140 mm will go like mushrooms after rain)
    2. +5
      15 June 2016 06: 25
      in Germany and without the inhabitants there is someone to understand the guns. Germans techies are not bad. Only with a woman in commanders, of course, you will not go far - hello Ursula.
      1. +2
        15 June 2016 07: 50
        Europeans with their tolerance will soon cease to be considered normal military.
      2. +3
        15 June 2016 16: 13
        Interestingly, what's the difference, a woman, or not a woman? Ursula certainly wasn’t thrust into the position and, before judging, one should carefully look at the results of the work.
        1. +5
          15 June 2016 18: 30
          Quote: Yeah, well.
          Interestingly, what's the difference, a woman, or not a woman?

          Are we talking about guns or about women? laughing
          As for the increase in caliber, then technically we have passed this stage a long time ago. See rev. 292.
          Of course, the power of the 152-mm projectile is very much superior to the D-81 projectile. He weighs, by the way, more than 40 kg instead of 23 kg in 125 mm.
          But every cricket knows its sixth. In the motorized rifle division, not all soldiers with PM, there are AK-74.
          And in artillery, not all self-propelled guns are Msts.
          A large caliber has not only advantages ... A tank with a 152-mm cannon will have less ammunition, and a larger mass, mobility will suffer, the price will increase, the issue of providing ammunition will be more difficult, etc.
          But ... when the 152-mm "shrapnel" explodes over the positions of the enemy infantry from the PTS, it is not at all the same as the 125-mm one ... And the ATGM is 2 times more powerful, and the BPS.
          Troops with tanks with such weapons will have a major advantage on the battlefield.
          Probably (after all, history has the property of repeating itself!) The time has come for the revival of heavy vehicles, heavily armed and protected, although less mobile.
          1. 0
            15 June 2016 18: 55
            Quote: Alekseev
            The time has come for the revival of heavy vehicles, heavily armed and protected, although less mobile.

            The only thing is that military pundits and tank practice should think and decide well: is there a need for a larger caliber?
            Are the artillery and army aviation capabilities enough now to support tankers and infantry on the battlefield?
            After all, the strength of the troops is in cooperation, and there are no miracle weapons.
    3. +10
      15 June 2016 10: 47
      And so, the world-famous expert from topvar made one miserable engineer and Rheinmetall designer with one comment.
      The concern management confirmed that it had never experienced such deep humiliation and confusion. Recall, the concern was created in 1889.
    4. +1
      15 June 2016 16: 10
      Quote: Good
      Although, there is a prospect of deceiving German taxpayers, who are unlikely to understand guns.


      So do not understand that half of the world use Rh120? It’s just that the German taxpayers are watching carefully where the state is spending money, this time. And two, this 130mm cannon and BC for it, Rheinmetall developed for his own money.
  2. +3
    15 June 2016 06: 10
    To a greater extent, the novelty will apparently be ammunition. Article +.
    1. +4
      15 June 2016 12: 15
      Quote: Dimon19661
      To a greater extent, the novelty will apparently be ammunition.

      yes, the cannon itself is already a deep tradition of antiquity.
      about the development of a promising 130-mm tank guns became known in February this year
      In fact, everyone who is interested, became aware of this back in the late 80s or early 90s, when the first articles about the development of promising 130 and 140 mm guns for the Bundeswehr and the US Army appeared in the Foreign Military Review.
  3. +3
    15 June 2016 06: 58
    On the question of the "negro-loader" (TM): it seems that there are thoughts of equipping this weapon with an automatic loader (http://svpressa.ru/war21/article/150553/). But then there can be no talk of modernizing the Leopard-2 in any of its modifications: in addition to replacing the turret, significant changes will also be required in the tank hull itself. So here we are already talking about the distant future, for the period of which our tank builders have a head start, which must be properly used.
    1. +2
      15 June 2016 07: 08
      the length of a unitary projectile increased by almost a third. Will have to increase the already huge tower
      1. 0
        15 June 2016 10: 18
        the problem is not even that, but that the gun must rotate vertically and its elongation
        poses a problem - either limit the aiming angles, or increase the height of the tower with the resulting weighting by 1-3 tons.
  4. +1
    15 June 2016 07: 20
    Something is hard to believe, an increase in caliber from 120 mm to 130 mm will give an increase in combat effectiveness by as much as 50%, fantastic.
    1. +5
      15 June 2016 07: 43
      you, nevertheless, pay attention to the increase in the length of the case and, probably, accordingly, the powder charge, as well as, quite possibly, the weight of the "crowbar"
    2. +5
      15 June 2016 09: 25
      Quote: merkava-2bet
      Something is hard to believe, an increase in caliber from 120 mm to 130 mm will give an increase in combat effectiveness by as much as 50%, fantastic.

      What they have now - 120 mm - not only in Leopard, also in Abrams, Japanese Type90, South Korean and Turkish. That is almost a standard that has been in production since 74 years. If we take into account the Leopard’s place, the PzH 2000 with a 155 mm gun of the same company can hardly doubt that the Germans will create another top-quality product.
    3. 0
      15 June 2016 10: 51
      "Something is hard to believe, increasing the caliber from 120 mm to 130 mm will give an increase in combat effectiveness by as much as 50%, fantastic" - Most likely it is, the core mass has been increased by 30-40 percent and add to this new powder, projectile speed will be equal to 2000 meters per second, due to this it turns out that the kinetic energy increases by 50 percent.
      1. +1
        15 June 2016 23: 07
        Maximum efficiency due to the increase in caliber from 120 to 130 can be achieved, somewhere by 17%. The volume of charge and mass of the projectile and its warhead grow approximately by this value, taking into account the growth of the caliber.
        If the Germans achieved something more, it was only due to a disproportionate increase in the length of the shell itself and the powder charge. Which, in fact, could be done without an increase in caliber. There is nothing surprising. The 7,62X 54 cartridge is also more powerful and more efficient than 7,62x39 and this does not affect anyone. More shell and more powder charge while maintaining the caliber. How to stuff such a gun into a standard tank, that’s the question ...
    4. BAI
      0
      15 June 2016 10: 56
      The most important thing is the ammunition.
    5. The comment was deleted.
    6. +3
      15 June 2016 12: 33
      Quote: merkava-2bet
      The gun of Almaty surpasses NATO guns of the caliber of 120 mm by 12-15%

      Um ... Where did you get this? belay The 2A82 is superior to the previous version of the 2A46 gun, but 15% superiority over the Rheinmetall gun is too early to talk about it.
      So far, all that we have is unconfirmed statements about "the best in the world" and "no analogues", which cause natural skepticism
      We do not own information about muzzle energy, nor about the velocity of the projectile at the exit from the barrel, nor about its mass, length of the rollback, etc. We do not know the characteristics of the shells.
      That's when there will be accurate official information - then we will rejoice.
      1. -3
        15 June 2016 13: 15
        Yes, yes, we’ll only talk about having no analogues [being just a prototype], but already known for its 1,5-fold excess of everything and everything - according to the company developing the prototype.

        And those put into service, having the GRAU index, mounted on the T-95 and T-14 tanks and having the power declared by the representatives of the Ministry of Defense are a mirage, deception, bluffing, etc. etc.

        Whose will you be from horses?
        1. +5
          15 June 2016 15: 24
          ... of adequate ... smile
  5. +6
    15 June 2016 07: 26
    The Germans want to install a 1,5 times more powerful gun on a tank that is not designed for him, replacing only the tower. Most likely they will have to increase the overhead of the tower, then increase the hull and strengthen the suspension so that all this will keep the recoil of the new gun. You can’t do without a new tank.
    1. 0
      15 June 2016 11: 37
      not a fact
      Germans decided to make large tolerances for reliability, and easily reserve reaches 50%
      perhaps there is such a reserve now on the leopard
      remember how they upgraded Pz IV for 6 years
      or, for example, how ours bought their anti-aircraft guns and squandered up to 85mm
      1. 0
        15 June 2016 14: 22
        So the war was. One of the main characteristics was the possibility of inexpensive modernization of equipment. The Germans were lucky with the PzIV, but the same "Panther" or "Tiger" did not have the potential for modernization. Modern tanks have a similar situation: there is no point in raising the cost of the original design for the sake of potential for modernization, which may not be useful at all, in order to equip a tank with new MSA and shells, a radical alteration of the vehicle is not required.
  6. +2
    15 June 2016 08: 23
    Some kind of contradiction with the caliber of the new gun: it is said that the increase in caliber is insignificant in order to minimize differences from the old 120 mm, but there will be a new tower (?). Well, they would do right away 140 mm.
    By machine. It seems that it will have to be developed (in Germany with huge blacks problems), but the warhead will be minimal - about seven, like a gun.
    1. 0
      15 June 2016 09: 51
      You can do without a machine gun, just like now: the breech and the window for issuing the projectile from the tower niche are fixed at the same level, the projectile is slightly pushed by the conveyor and pushed by the loader into the cannon, never losing at least one of the "extreme supports". But the ammunition of the first stage will really not be large, because no other trajectory for the supply of such projectiles inside a tower of reasonable size can be imagined.
    2. 0
      15 June 2016 11: 38
      Quote: SarS
      in Germany with huge blacks problems

      but there are no problems with huge Turks or Poles or a bunch of other emigrants
  7. +3
    15 June 2016 08: 29
    The gun’s perspective is simple - there will be a new tank under it and there will be a gun. So it was already with the 140mm cannon, which supposedly could be put on existing Leopards, although in fact, because of the increased power, it could not be used on serial tanks. So here - well, dimensions, mount, weight - all this will keep the tank centered on the march, and during the shot how the return of a more powerful gun will be extinguished - by fixing the gun in the tower, designed for weaker returns, and amortizing the entire chord, which is also not designed for such efforts. And if the chassis can withstand, then it has a large margin of safety, then the buildup of the tank will be stronger, then again it will be necessary to strengthen the shock absorbers to the detriment of the softness of the ride.
    1. 0
      15 June 2016 09: 18
      Quote: Engineer
      So here - well, dimensions, mount, weight - all this will keep the tank centered on the march, and during the shot the return of a more powerful gun will be extinguished

      You are certainly right. But there are times when life forces a turret with large dimensions and another weapon to be placed on the hull of one tank. Remember the T-34-85.
      If the Germans think that they are "alis kaput", then they can go our way.
    2. 0
      15 June 2016 16: 22
      Quote: Engineer
      So it was already with the 140mm cannon, which supposedly could be put on existing Leopards, although in fact, because of the increased power, it could not be used on serial tanks.


      Why are these statements? There is a prototype of Leo2 and Abrams with a 140mm gun. You generally saw how Leo2, Abrams behaves after the shot and how T-72, T-90. Here and compare the buildup and recoil.
  8. 0
    15 June 2016 08: 35
    . In the crew of other tanks there is a loader, which has to work with long and heavy ammunition. As can be seen in the available pictures, the new 130-mm shells receive an elongated sleeve, which leads to an increase in the dimensions and weight of the product. As a result, the maintenance of a new gun by the crew can turn into an even more difficult task. Thus, the development of a new tower or a new tank as a whole will require the creation of new systems, which can be a very difficult task.

    for the tenth time on the same rake?
    1. 0
      15 June 2016 11: 17
      Quote: Stas57
      for the tenth time on the same rake?

      To paraphrase a famous poet:
      German have their own pride
      They look down on experience
      . smile

      I immediately remembered the T-44-122 with the unitary.
  9. 0
    15 June 2016 08: 51
    Well, the unitary shell is understandable. Reload speed is higher. The sleeve appears to be burning. In extraction - only the bottom. The lack of an ejector and the dimensions of the shells hint at an uninhabited tower. An increase in projectile power with moderate dimensions of the gun itself suggests an integral barrel design (liner or fastened?) In any case, the barrel life will be small. Funny thing, a cross section would look.
  10. +1
    15 June 2016 09: 29
    This is in the description with an ejector, but getting rid of it is one replacement card.
    Another thing is everything else. To compensate for the recoil force, one way is to increase the length of the recoil, and this is possible only in an uninhabited tower. The loading mechanism can be placed on the side. Give 152mm in Armata!
  11. 0
    15 June 2016 09: 47
    Quote: pimen
    you, nevertheless, pay attention to the increase in the length of the case and, probably, accordingly, the powder charge, as well as, quite possibly, the weight of the "crowbar"

    Regarding the increased charge, this is understandable, but the scrap itself is the same or improved but not new, since increasing the power of the projectile is more rational due to speed than mass. Well, forum users answered very well about the accompanying problems.
  12. +2
    15 June 2016 09: 49
    The idea of ​​the developer is to install a new gun on old tanks by replacing the turret and, even, replacing the loader with a machine gun (in the aft niche of the turret).

    The increased power of the 130-mm gun is achieved by the use of new steels in its design, designed to increase the pressure in the barrel. Due to this, a longer and heavier BPS is used. At the same time, the planned increase in muzzle energy by 50 percent with an increase in caliber by 8 percent compared to the 120-mm L55 is doubtful.

    In any case, the prototype of the German 130-mm gun is a shortfall compared to the adopted Russian 152-mm 2А83, the muzzle energy of which is 25 MJ or 200 percent of the 120-mm L55. The use of new steels will increase this value.

    Even so, the 152-mm BPS "Grifel-2" weighing 13 kg flies out of the barrel at the speed of a miniature railgun projectile - 1980 m / s.
    1. +2
      15 June 2016 09: 59
      Adopted?
      1. +1
        15 June 2016 17: 44
        GRAU index is available.
  13. -1
    15 June 2016 09: 54
    Quote: Operator
    The idea of ​​the developer is to install a new gun on old tanks by replacing the turret and, even, replacing the loader with a machine gun (in the aft niche of the turret).

    The increased power of the 130-mm gun is achieved by the use of new steels in its design, designed to increase the pressure in the barrel. Due to this, a longer and heavier BPS is used. At the same time, the planned increase in muzzle energy by 50 percent with an increase in caliber by 8 percent compared to the 120-mm L55 is doubtful.

    In any case, the prototype of the German 130-mm gun is a shortfall compared to the adopted Russian 152-mm 2А83, the muzzle energy of which is 25 MJ or 200 percent of the 120-mm L55. The use of new steels will increase this value.

    just read my thoughts about the 2A83 gun
  14. 0
    15 June 2016 11: 01
    and they wanted to say on the armature, now there is a modernized 2A82 gun of caliber 125 and a 2A83 gun of caliber 152 has already been designed (and manufactured), so far it has been considered excessive
    1. +4
      15 June 2016 12: 52
      Rather, the military is unhappy with the 2A83 resource, which, judging by the sources, is still at 300 rounds, which is 2-3 times lower than the 2A42 and 2A82 resources.
      1. 0
        15 June 2016 19: 30
        "Rather, the military are unhappy with the 2A83 resource, which, judging by the sources so far, is at the level of 300 rounds" - There are no options here, just create a new gun.
  15. 0
    15 June 2016 11: 21
    The guns are not boom-boom, I want to ask those who know what superiority a 130-mm gun has over a 140-mm Russian-made gun, or vice versa? Just enlighten and explain the perspectives of both guns.
    1. 0
      15 June 2016 16: 43
      Actually, the 140mm cannon is a cannon developed by the Germans in the 90s for the modernization of Leo2 and Abrams. I haven’t heard anything about the Russian 140mm.
  16. -1
    15 June 2016 19: 41
    Dear forum users! I’ve got minuses today, but I’m wondering, they are specialists in artillery or so, for the company minusanuli. This is not the case. Let's see if the little pussies will be adopted. I remain of my opinion. The point here is that the guaranteed direct range from this gun is about 1,2-2 km., But in Russian tanks, the gun can fire guided projectiles up to 5 km, but foreign ones are unlikely. I note that during the flight of a guided projectile to the target, our tank continuously maneuvers, while the controllability of the projectile is maintained
    Now the problem: Try to hit the tank from a smoothbore gun at a distance of 5 km, while it moves and shoots at you with guided projectiles from a range exceeding your direct shot range by 2,5 times. Do you even imagine what a tank looks like from a distance of 5 km? Smaller match head, and this is in ideal conditions, without taking into account the terrain and weather.
    All minus the next!
    1. +1
      15 June 2016 20: 09
      Guided cumulative projectiles have an initial speed of about 900 m / s and are intercepted by a KAZ of the "Afganit" type. Therefore, in the near future, only BPS with an initial speed of 1700 to 2000 m / s rule.
    2. +1
      15 June 2016 22: 09
      "Do you at least imagine what a tank looks like from a distance of 5 km? Less than a match head, and this is in ideal conditions, without taking into account the terrain and weather." - You know, in optics and optical devices, the Germans are ahead of the rest of the planet, and in control and guidance systems, they are also not in the last places.
    3. 0
      16 June 2016 04: 18
      Quote: Good
      I remain of my opinion. The point here is that the guaranteed range of a direct shot from this gun is about 1,2-2 km


      Where have you heard such nonsense? The Rh120 penetrates with a DM63-type projectile still the majority of tanks anywhere and at 6 km, and the LMS allows you to get, or rather, calculate up to 4 km, with 4 km you must manually with an experienced crew. At 2,5 km, Leo is in full swing with a probability close to 100%. There are also missiles on Leo2, LAHAT are called up to 8 km, but due to the fact that the CS are quite long-range and effective against potential opponents, they refused to purchase.

      Quote: Good
      I note that during the flight of a guided projectile to the target, our tank continuously maneuvers, while the controllability of the projectile is maintained


      Oh well, are you from personal experience? When firing an SD, you need to constantly illuminate the target, and if it succeeds in firing smoothly, and even getting in progress, the tank can only somehow wander around, but it’s better for him to stand at all. What maneuver is there?

      Quote: Good
      Now the problem: Try to hit the tank from a smoothbore gun at a distance of 5 km, while it moves and shoots at you with guided projectiles from a range exceeding your direct shot range by 2,5 times. Do you even imagine what a tank looks like from a distance of 5 km? Smaller match head, and this is in ideal conditions, without taking into account the terrain and weather.
      All minus the next!


      You apparently are completely unaware of how far Leo2 is capable of blocking your SC, you are not aware of the quality of the LMS, right down to the crew’s training. Firing URs on modern tanks such as Leo2 can be more dangerous than CS, since as soon as you start to highlight the target, the crew of the tank to be illuminated will immediately know and they will immediately land the CS at the point where the light comes from, that is, for you. In addition, a set of measures will be taken, such as shooting aerosols and changing positions, UR will go into milk.
      1. +1
        16 June 2016 19: 37
        "The Rh120 still penetrates most tanks with a DM63 projectile anywhere and at 6km,
        and the LMS allows you to get, or rather calculate, up to 4 km "////

        You can get (from a stationary tank to a stationary tank). But to break through - OBPS? For sub-caliber "crowbars" the speed decreases with distance, and here it is not even a direct shot but flat ballistics.
        Americans in Iraq shot their uranium OBPS
        M829A3 which is much longer and more powerful than DM63 with 2 km, breaking through the forehead of the T-72 (not the newest).
        1. +1
          16 June 2016 23: 59
          Time for drop dead stories ...
      2. The comment was deleted.
  17. -1
    15 June 2016 20: 24
    Quote: the47th
    So the war was. One of the main characteristics was the possibility of inexpensive modernization of equipment. The Germans were lucky with the PzIV, but the same "Panther" or "Tiger" did not have the potential for modernization. Modern tanks have a similar situation: there is no point in raising the cost of the original design for the sake of potential for modernization, which may not be useful at all, in order to equip a tank with new MSA and shells, a radical alteration of the vehicle is not required.

    Is that so? Pz V after, damp near Kursk, D (which had been fighting to the end of the war by the way) there were three modifications A, G, F plus the cars based on it Yagd and Berg, which became very combat-ready and powerful. Another thing is mass. There is no arguing for a four-way chassis that they just didn’t pack, besides their own. panzerov. And the Tiger was an ideal platform for the terrible aht-aht, well, with the exception of the chassis. Then they were too smart with two rows of paired rollers (like the Panther) But there would be time to cure this sore.
    1. 0
      15 June 2016 20: 38
      Modifications of the Panther were notable for small technological changes, the same T-34 did not count such changes. Neither the strengthening of the reservation, nor the increase in firepower during the production of PzV was not. Yagd- and Berg are independent platform machines. Probably, each tank will have a lot of such.
      1. -1
        15 June 2016 20: 45
        The main thing is that the growth sores have been cured. But essentially you are right. Pz-IV was reborn very seriously.
      2. The comment was deleted.
      3. 0
        17 June 2016 12: 49
        , "the same T-34 can not count such changes" ////

        T-34 began his career in 1940 with a frontal armor of the 45 mm case,
        with her, and finished in the 45th.
        It was pierced from the age of 43 by any tank and anti-tank gun of the Germans.
        During this period, the tanks of allies and opponents brought the forehead to 90-100 mm
        1. 0
          14 July 2016 18: 54
          Reservation of the tower at T-34-85 has increased very much (forehead thickness doubled), like firepower.
  18. -3
    15 June 2016 20: 39
    Quote: Good
    Now the problem: Try to hit the tank from a smoothbore gun at a distance of 5 km, while it moves and shoots at you with guided projectiles from a range exceeding your direct shot range by 2,5 times. Do you even imagine what a tank looks like from a distance of 5 km? Smaller match head, and this is in ideal conditions, without taking into account the terrain and weather.

    And I will agree. A sensible thought. The absence of AZ in most NATO panzer and ATGMs from the barrel is a serious advantage, all other things being equal.
  19. The comment was deleted.
  20. -3
    16 June 2016 00: 54
    Good old RPG-7 will not notice the difference of 120 mm or 130 mm guns at Leopard

"Right Sector" (banned in Russia), "Ukrainian Insurgent Army" (UPA) (banned in Russia), ISIS (banned in Russia), "Jabhat Fatah al-Sham" formerly "Jabhat al-Nusra" (banned in Russia) , Taliban (banned in Russia), Al-Qaeda (banned in Russia), Anti-Corruption Foundation (banned in Russia), Navalny Headquarters (banned in Russia), Facebook (banned in Russia), Instagram (banned in Russia), Meta (banned in Russia), Misanthropic Division (banned in Russia), Azov (banned in Russia), Muslim Brotherhood (banned in Russia), Aum Shinrikyo (banned in Russia), AUE (banned in Russia), UNA-UNSO (banned in Russia), Mejlis of the Crimean Tatar People (banned in Russia), Legion “Freedom of Russia” (armed formation, recognized as terrorist in the Russian Federation and banned)

“Non-profit organizations, unregistered public associations or individuals performing the functions of a foreign agent,” as well as media outlets performing the functions of a foreign agent: “Medusa”; "Voice of America"; "Realities"; "Present time"; "Radio Freedom"; Ponomarev; Savitskaya; Markelov; Kamalyagin; Apakhonchich; Makarevich; Dud; Gordon; Zhdanov; Medvedev; Fedorov; "Owl"; "Alliance of Doctors"; "RKK" "Levada Center"; "Memorial"; "Voice"; "Person and law"; "Rain"; "Mediazone"; "Deutsche Welle"; QMS "Caucasian Knot"; "Insider"; "New Newspaper"