Military Review

Namer vs T-15: Israeli Ersatz against Motorized Riflemen with “Warrior”

114
Namer vs T-15: Israeli Ersatz against Motorized Riflemen with “Warrior”



These tests are from the beginning of the year, right after the armored department of the Israel Defense Forces began to install a new active defense system on Namer.

It is noteworthy that in this case we are talking about BMP Namer, made on the basis of the latest Israeli tanks Merkava Mk4, and this modification has the character of an engineering version.

Note that initially this BMP was developed on the chassis of the old Israeli tank Mk1, but then this technological solution was revised and Namer began to be made on the basis of the newest Israeli tank Mk4 with the power plant from the previous model Mk3.

The Namer level of body armor is fully consistent with the latest versions of the Mk4, and, in addition, this machine has enhanced bottom bookings, as well as naked anti-cumulative screens in order to save the lives of soldiers transported to the BMP.

It is also worth noting that, following the example of the Russian heavy BMP T-15, created on the Armata platform, the Israelis are currently considering the possibility of replacing the Katlanit combat module with a remote-controlled gun with a caliber in 30 mm.


Modern tank battle tactics require the creation of heavy infantry fighting vehicles

However, despite the fact that the heavy Namer BMP is a great achievement for the military-industrial complex of Israel, it cannot be said that this is a hundred percent Israeli project, since many components were made by the national company Rafael together with the American corporation General Dynamics.

Another question is that this does not negate the fact that Namer is a very effective military tool capable of solving many tasks in the conditions of modern maneuverable combat, so it is not surprising that a number of experts compare the Israeli machine in its qualities with the promising Russian heavy BMP T-15.

A military expert, Alexei Leonkov, in a conversation with the FBA “Economy Today”, noted that it is impossible to compare Namer with the T-15 “Armata”, since these are not parallel projects in any way.

Here you can remember that Namer, unlike “Armata”, which was originally created as a modular platform for a tank and a heavy infantry fighting vehicle, is a consequence of the old Israeli program of converting tanks into heavy infantry fighting vehicles.

The first such machine was created on the basis of T-54 / 55 tanks captured from Arabs. Centurion"

It is noteworthy that this experiment was so successful that A41 was recently reworked in neighboring Jordan, but, in any case, such a machine is, unlike Armata, an ersatz and, in fact, is an example of effective use of old armored vehicles.


Equipment "Warrior" will draw a line under
the concept of heavy infantry fighting vehicles T-15 "Armata"

“The Armata platform is a purely Russian idea, as evidenced by the principle of its layout, as well as the very principle of placing ammunition, combat modules and propulsion systems. The versatility of this platform lies in the fact that, depending on the situation, it can be both a tank and a heavy BMP, and during its development we were not guided by the Israelis, ”concludes Leonkov.

According to Leonkov, the decision to develop a heavy infantry fighting vehicle T-15 based on the Armata platform was made after the tasks of our infantry, as well as motorized rifle units, which must accompany tank units, changed.

“At present, the fire resistance of the tank column, which is deployed in order of battle and advances along the front line, is very large, therefore, the protection of infantry in this regard comes to the fore. As a result, the BMP T-15 appeared, which maximally protects not only the crew, but also the landing, consisting of motorized riflemen, armed with the most modern assault weapons, which can now land not in the field, but directly on the enemy's trenches, ”Leonkov states.

Leonkov notes that in the symbiosis with the newest equipment of the Russian Army “Ratnik” fighter, the heavy Armata BMP T-15 will be able to solve the most serious tasks on the battlefield.

“Israeli developers, of course, are also following the trend of building heavy BMPs, but their approach is fundamentally different from Russia, although compared to what Israel had, Namer’s BMP is an unconditional and significant step forward,” concludes Leonkov.
Author:
Originator:
http://rueconomics.ru/177567-namer-vs-t-15-izrailskii-erzac-protiv-motostrelkov-s-ratnikom
114 comments
Information
Dear reader, to leave comments on the publication, you must sign in.
  1. alicante11
    alicante11 12 June 2016 06: 19
    -4
    I don’t understand the purpose of installing active protection on TBMP. If this machine is supposed to transport infantry under the heavy influence of anti-personnel weapons (i.e., high-explosive and fragmentation b / p artillery and mortars, heavy machine guns, flamethrowers, etc.), then will the radars and KAZ launchers that are located be saved? out of armored cover?
    The only thing I can assume is that, as I said earlier, the Jews plan to use their TBMP against paramilitary units, which do not have a lot of heavy weapons, but have many light vehicles.
    1. cosmos111
      cosmos111 12 June 2016 06: 40
      +8
      Quote: alicante11
      but have a lot of light TCP.


      For this, they were created to withstand RPGs and ATGMs.

      "Failak Sham" CCFA pturizes loyalists in Aleppo area: "Cornet on BMP.
    2. carp
      carp 12 June 2016 08: 01
      +15
      And you did not think that the radar and KAZ are protected from small arms?
    3. carp
      carp 12 June 2016 08: 11
      +20
      However, despite the fact that the heavy Namer BMP is a great achievement for the military-industrial complex of Israel, it cannot be said that this is a hundred percent Israeli project, since many components were made by the national company Rafael together with the American corporation General Dynamics.




      The condition for receiving US military assistance is 75% of the money you need to spend in America. Therefore, most of the picking Namera ordered in America (unlike Merkava). By the way, it turned out to be interesting with engines for Merkava: a slightly modified German engine from Leopard is put on Merkava. But in order to be able to purchase it at the expense of American military assistance, GE acquired a license from the Germans and produces a German engine for mercava
      1. alicante11
        alicante11 12 June 2016 09: 24
        +1
        And you did not think that the radar and KAZ are protected from small arms?


        And did I write somewhere about the shooting? Of course, how to protect the radar from shooting is also a question. But I did not indicate small arms in the form of danger.


        those. high-explosive and fragmentation b / p artillery and mortars, heavy machine guns, flamethrowers, etc.)
        1. shonsu
          shonsu 12 June 2016 12: 27
          +4
          I'm sorry but you're a boob. bulletproof protection means protection against fragments. or are you talking about such a dense fire that the landmines will directly hit radars and devices? it is impossible to exclude, of course, an accidental hit, but nevertheless it is a rather difficult task to shoot guns in battle on radars specially. )))
          1. alicante11
            alicante11 12 June 2016 13: 33
            +9
            sorry but you boob. bulletproof protection means protection against fragments.


            Kindergarten, it remains only to say who calls names ... Well, you understand.
            First, explain how to protect the radar from shrapnel, and bullets at the same time. In addition, they are significantly different fragments, and there are also the size of a large-caliber bullet, protection from which light armor does not provide. The shooter is not particularly scary, not because of its weakness, but because of the difficulty of hitting. It is quite difficult to hit a small part of a maneuvering and firing tank / TBMP. Whereas artillery / mortars can cover moving equipment across the squares, causing damage by close explosions, themselves at this time, being at a distance without being exposed to return fire. The position of heavy machine guns is worse, but they can also fire from long distances. Well illustrated, albeit in a somewhat exaggerated form, is the shelling of a tank from "Shilka". It will not penetrate the armor, but it will "undress" from all external equipment completely.

            it is impossible to exclude, of course, an accidental hit, but nevertheless it is a rather difficult task to shoot guns in battle on radars specially. )))


            Well, very smart. When you are stupid for an opponent, it greatly enhances in your eyes.
            1. MACCABI-TLV
              MACCABI-TLV 12 June 2016 15: 54
              +6
              Quote: alicante11
              Well illustrated, albeit in a somewhat exaggerated form, is the shelling of a tank from "Shilka". It will not penetrate the armor, but it will "undress" from all external equipment completely.

              Well, yes, an excellent erotic script. The tank is like "Hey, Shilka! Let's undress me already, I'm on fire."
              Who would give a goal like Shilka closer than 2km?
              1. Aqela
                Aqela 17 June 2016 06: 23
                0
                And what, the "Shilka" range is up to 2 km?
                The Shilka self-propelled anti-aircraft gun is designed to engage low-flying targets at a range of up to 2500 m and an altitude of 1500 m, as well as ground targets at a range of up to 2000 m.

                This is not Wikipedia
                http://pvo.guns.ru/shilka/shilka.htm
      2. MACCABI-TLV
        MACCABI-TLV 12 June 2016 11: 07
        0
        Quote: carpag
        By the way, with the engines for Merkava, it turned out to be interesting in general:

        on Namer engine from Merkava 3.
        1. carp
          carp 12 June 2016 11: 45
          +3
          Of course))) at first they wanted to deliver from the "four", but it hurt for the money
    4. Forest
      Forest 12 June 2016 16: 12
      +2
      In the presence of a large number of modern armored vehicles, any machine gunner is a suicide bomber. Quickly get a OFS as a gift.
    5. yehat
      yehat 14 June 2016 14: 15
      0
      I don’t understand how the warrior is connected with the t-15 or intent?
      The article did not show any connection. Why did you mention it at all ???
      at first I thought - some kind of integration, target designation, etc., but NOTHING request
      the author, why did you mention the warrior ???? lol
      1. Aqela
        Aqela 17 June 2016 06: 26
        0
        I agree with the questions asked. In general, the article is a "set of bukoffs". No comparison of technical and tactical characteristics, in general, vague reasoning in the complete absence of specifics ... request negative Definitely a minus. hi
  2. Kaiten
    Kaiten 12 June 2016 08: 39
    +26
    In principle, there is nothing special to talk about. When the experience of the military use of both systems is accumulated, then it makes sense to compare. It makes no sense to compare now, since the methodology for using armored vehicles in battle is different between Israel and Russia. It makes sense to compare precisely the battle techniques and how the integrated part of these techniques is the TTX and the battle plan of these two heavy armored vehicles. And comparing only the performance characteristics is like comparing the size of the wheels of cars and not taking other factors into account - a larger diameter of the wheels does not mean that the car is faster.
    1. alicante11
      alicante11 12 June 2016 09: 27
      +4
      It makes no sense to compare now, since the methodology for using armored vehicles in battle is different between Israel and Russia.


      Yes, hardly. Armata and T-15 are precisely "our answer to the Jews." Those. tanks and infantry fighting vehicles for battles with partisans. But how it is planned to use carrots and other pribluda in the event of a war with Egypt, Jordan and the Saudis is a question. Most likely, their use will not differ in any way from the "Russian" one, as before, when the Jews fought against massive modern armies.
      1. Kaiten
        Kaiten 12 June 2016 09: 47
        +2
        Quote: alicante11
        Most likely, their application will not differ in any way from the "Russian"

        this is a very very bold statement
        1. Lopatov
          Lopatov 12 June 2016 10: 13
          +10
          Why?
          Most likely it will be so. Is that the "Namers" will not be able to support the tanks. For the rest, the task is the same: to take the infantry under fire to the dismounting line.

          I understand that the T-15 does not yet exist in "commercial" quantities, but the principles of their combat use will not differ from the principles of using the BMP-1/2.
          1. Kaiten
            Kaiten 12 June 2016 11: 33
            +1
            Quote: Spade
            Most likely it will be so. Is that the "Namers" will not be able to support the tanks.

            Of course they can. but to date, the Israeli strategy is aimed not so much at a direct collision of tanks against tanks, but rather to storm areas and cities. If the enemy uses armored vehicles, pilot / unmanned aircraft will be widely used for its destruction. A similar strategy was used in the 2006 war, when all of Hezbollah’s wheeled tracked vehicles, about 50 tanks and many multiple launch rocket launchers were destroyed before reaching the line of contact.
            1. alicante11
              alicante11 12 June 2016 12: 33
              +3
              Of course they can. but to date, the Israeli strategy is aimed not so much at a direct collision of tanks against tanks, but rather to storm areas and cities.


              Well, the tactics "tanks against tanks" went away back in the 40s. And so - yes, it is to storm cities - i.e. on actions against partisans with manual PTS. And in the case of large-scale b / d they will burn in the same way as the BMP-1/2. But the cost is incomparable.
          2. korvin1976
            korvin1976 12 June 2016 13: 22
            +4
            The principle of the use of infantry fighting vehicles, which you mean: a tank attack on the front with the support of infantry fighting vehicles has long outlived for the most part its usefulness.
            Such an application was advisable when manual anti-tank weapons were poorly developed, and an enemy equipped with such weapons had to attack at a small distance from the tanks. Therefore, an extra pair of eyes in the BMP and its weapons were not superfluous.
            With the current development of anti-tank weapons, these pairs of eyes are of little use. Here, a more multi-level battlefield control system is already required.

            Accordingly, TBMP at this moment is obtained in exactly the same position as a conventional BMP, with the exception of greater security.

            TBMP is advisable to use with tanks in a "urban" battle. When the tanks "capture" the bridgehead, and TBMP delivers the infantry, to the given bridgehead, to cover the tanks from the flanks (houses, basements, attics, etc.).

            Now, if you combine the concept of BMPT and TBPM, equip TBMP with the same means of visual control of the situation as BMPT, then this machine can be used to the full.

            TBMP (T15) is a good car, but partly highly specialized. If its purpose is the delivery of infantry, then in this case it has too heavy weapons for a heavy armored personnel carrier. If its purpose is to deliver infantry and support tanks, then in this case it suffers from "information starvation" and there is little sense in it, it will have to additionally use BMPT.

            Israeli TBMP is not in fact an infantry fighting vehicle, but a heavy armored personnel carrier, the purpose of which is to deliver infantry to fortified areas. This is evidenced by its strong security and weak weapons. In fact, this is a heavily armored taxi, the ability to defend itself.

            T15 - at the moment, the same heavy taxi, with the ability to defend itself, but with excessive firepower, since in fact it is not an infantry fighting vehicle, but an armored personnel carrier, but as I wrote above, it all depends on the purpose of the application.
            1. Kaiten
              Kaiten 12 June 2016 14: 59
              +4
              Quote: korvin1976
              In fact, this is a heavily armored taxi, the ability to defend itself.

              Not really. This is not a second-line combat vehicle - this is a first-line vehicle, but its specialization is rather opposing well-trained infantry units armed with modern means of combat, especially in urban battles.
              1. korvin1976
                korvin1976 12 June 2016 16: 59
                +2
                This is exactly what I wrote that TBMP is good in urban conditions, but essentially useless in a frontal tank attack, when operating with tanks in the same line.
                To counter infantry with the TCP, it does not have enough equipment and capabilities to collect information.
                If BMPT "Terminator" has such equipment in abundance, as well as operators of this equipment, then TBMP does not have such opportunities.
                1. marshes
                  marshes 12 June 2016 17: 05
                  +1
                  Quote: korvin1976
                  If BMPT "Terminator" has such equipment in abundance, as well as operators of this equipment, then TBMP does not have such opportunities.

                  That you are not so indifferent to him, the country that operates this unit uses as a command vehicle, security, to the Sturm-S anti-tank complex
                2. Kaiten
                  Kaiten 12 June 2016 19: 04
                  +1
                  Quote: korvin1976
                  but essentially useless in a frontal tank attack

                  I’m not a tanker, but as far as I know, they prefer to use them to clean the flanks of tank attacks.
            2. Lopatov
              Lopatov 12 June 2016 17: 23
              +2
              Quote: korvin1976
              Such an application was advisable when manual anti-tank weapons were poorly developed, and an enemy equipped with such weapons had to attack at a small distance from the tanks. Therefore, an extra pair of eyes in the BMP and its weapons were not superfluous.

              Now what? The enemy lost all hand-held anti-tank grenade launchers, and therefore tanks can fearlessly scramble into the rampage without infantry?

              Quote: korvin1976
              TBMP is advisable to use with tanks in a "urban" battle. When the tanks "capture" the bridgehead

              How can they do it without infantry? "Bridgehead" ... deprived of tanks. And then give a lift to the infantry, which will trample into the streets without support. Quite a strange strategy.
            3. Idiot
              Idiot 12 June 2016 18: 53
              +3
              [quote = korvin1976] The principle of the use of infantry fighting vehicles, which you mean: a tank attack on the front with the support of infantry fighting vehicles has long outlived for the most part their usefulness

              Excerpts from the current Combat Charter of the ground forces of the RF Armed Forces:
              p.4 Motorized rifle (tank) platoon is designed to perform tasks: in defense - to repel enemy attacks and defeat his advancing troops, to keep occupied strong point, positions and objects; in the offensive - to defeat him
              defending units, the seizure of specified Frontiers and objects ...
              p.6 A motorized rifle platoon may be given ... a tank, and a tank platoon - a motorized rifle unit.
              p.13. A combat vehicle is intended to support the actions of combat groups by fire, destroy armored, unarmored objects and enemy manpower, as well as to transport personnel of the squad.
              A motorized rifle platoon (squad) can operate on foot (in winter - on skis), on infantry fighting vehicles (armored personnel carriers, cars) and landing on tanks ...
              You are probably more professional than the leadership of the RF Armed Forces and the Commander-in-Chief in particular, who approved this Charter. That is, currently conducting combined-arms operations is the only way to defeat the enemy, tanks remain the main striking force of such operations. But the tank is doomed to destruction if it does not work in conjunction with the infantry (artillery, multiple rocket launchers, air defense, electronic warfare, attack helicopters, front-line aviation - everything is subordinate to ensuring the conduct of a ground operation, its development and retention of captured lines), which, in its the turn must be delivered to the battlefield at the right time and without loss. This can be done only by heavily armored armored personnel carriers, protected similarly to tanks, acting in the battle formations of tanks. Landing, the infantry, with the direct fire support of military vehicles, clears captured positions and holds them. Tanks cannot do this without infantry (example: Grozny). Fighting is also underway in urban settings. These tactical schemes worked out 70 years ago and there are no prerequisites for their change. The purpose of the BMP from the BTR, in fact, is no different. In the Charter, there is only one difference: BMP, along with tanks, destroys similar enemy equipment, and APCs - manpower and firing points. The difference in weapons systems installed on them. With the modular principle and equivalent security, the difference disappears altogether ...
            4. yehat
              yehat 14 June 2016 14: 24
              0
              Now the attack is based on reconnaissance and highly mobile artillery support complexes - for example, AMOS. They saw, covered for a few seconds and immediately changed position. But tanks and infantry only finish off, clean up and establish control on the ground.
              sometimes at high speed break into UNPREPARED / READY positions for defense
              therefore, BMP or TBMP should only meet extremely thinned / crushed / demoralized / shell-shocked / wounded infantry with a deficit of heavy weapons.
              If the enemy is stronger, then something is already being done wrong. and the problem is not in the car, but in the manual.
        2. alicante11
          alicante11 12 June 2016 12: 30
          +2
          this is a very very bold statement


          Well, we are not afraid of hamsters. Would you deny something?
          1. atalef
            atalef 12 June 2016 12: 37
            0
            Quote: alicante11
            this is a very very bold statement


            Well, we are not afraid of hamsters. Would you deny something?

            Are you your thoughts? Well, like something, justify?
            Quote: alicante11
            And so - yes, precisely to storm the cities - i.e. on actions against partisans with manual PTS. And in the case of large-scale b / d will burn as well as the BMP-1 / 2.

            Quote: alicante11
            But how is it planned to use carrots and other stray in case of war with Egypt, Jordan and the Saudis, the question
            belay
            1. alicante11
              alicante11 12 June 2016 13: 35
              +1
              Are you your thoughts? Well, like something, justify?


              Yes justified - above, go to each post the same thing to say?

              Atalef, emoticons do not roll for an explanation.
          2. Kaiten
            Kaiten 12 June 2016 13: 28
            0
            Quote: alicante11
            Well, we are not afraid of hamsters.

            Is that you, dear man, who called you a hamster?
            1. alicante11
              alicante11 12 June 2016 14: 03
              +1
              Is that you, dear man, who called you a hamster?


              Well, you Jews, you love to poke everything. Well, of course, you, if you thought my assumption was "bold".
              Actually, I had in mind that it is advisable to argue my position, if we disagree.
              1. Kaiten
                Kaiten 12 June 2016 14: 23
                0
                Quote: alicante11
                Well, you Jews, you love to poke everything.

                I don’t poke a haml.
                Quote: alicante11
                Well, of course, you, if you thought my assumption was "bold".

                As you read, let me know and quietly merge in the emergency. Butting cattle through the no-no - it makes no sense.

                Quote: alicante11
                Actually, I had in mind that it is advisable to argue my position, if we disagree.

                It is foolish to argue in a conversation where logical calculations give way to emotions. So, there will be one argument with you - to the garden, to rest in an emergency.
                1. xan
                  xan 12 June 2016 19: 09
                  +1
                  Quote: Kaiten
                  It is foolish to argue in a conversation where logical calculations give way to emotions. So, there will be one argument with you - to the garden, to rest in an emergency.

                  Weak Jews have gone, they are hiding right behind.
                  1. Kaiten
                    Kaiten 12 June 2016 20: 11
                    0
                    Quote: xan
                    Weak Jews have gone, they are hiding right behind.

                    Tired of getting provocateurs because of warnings. And so the answer is always that. I do not swear at work, I talk to them.
      2. Aaron Zawi
        Aaron Zawi 12 June 2016 11: 00
        +2
        Quote: alicante11
        Most likely, their use will not differ in any way from the "Russian" one, as before, when the Jews fought against massive modern armies.

        Yeah, especially considering the fact that in Russia they make TBMP, and in Israel TBTR is created. And these are completely different cars for their intended purpose.
        1. activator
          activator 12 June 2016 12: 33
          +3
          Quote: Aron Zaavi
          Yeah, especially considering the fact that in Russia they make TBMP, and in Israel TBTR is created. And these are completely different cars for their intended purpose.

          Yes, they are not so different and they can calmly perform each other's functions, the only thing that they intentionally forcibly deprived of firepower, but this is corrected by just spitting some kind of module. Actually, by and large I don’t see the difference.
          1. MACCABI-TLV
            MACCABI-TLV 12 June 2016 15: 58
            0
            Quote: activator
            by and large I don’t see a difference at all.

            very vain, it is substantial, if you remember that Namer is an armored troop carrier.
        2. alicante11
          alicante11 12 June 2016 12: 33
          0
          Yeah, especially considering the fact that in Russia they make TBMP, and in Israel TBTR is created. And these are completely different cars for their intended purpose.


          And more detail you can?
      3. The comment was deleted.
  3. igor67
    igor67 12 June 2016 08: 52
    +11
    Remaking the T55 into a heavy bhp Ahzarit
    1. Professor
      Professor 12 June 2016 09: 52
      +17
      The hard worker in the photo with a cigarette in his mouth. There were times. wink
      1. Kaiten
        Kaiten 12 June 2016 11: 35
        +3
        Quote: Professor
        The hard worker in the photo with a cigarette in his mouth. There were times.

        On MASHA now with this strictly.
      2. Lex.
        Lex. 12 June 2016 12: 36
        +5
        There were times. Well, yes, someone even came to work on a bike. He probably lives near the factory.
      3. The comment was deleted.
  4. cap
    cap 12 June 2016 09: 14
    +3
    There is engineering in Israel, who would doubt it.
    Every fifth is "our person".
    It’s different for me where it’s all located. It’s necessary to go to Israel to see. Fortunately, a visa is not needed for Russians now.
    Of course, they won’t catch up with the Armata platform.
    1. alicante11
      alicante11 12 June 2016 09: 30
      +6
      Every fifth is "our person".


      Yes, I beg you. "Ours" are not there, only theirs "trained for free". Therefore, their operation and upgrade are at the highest level, but to create something serious themselves is rather weak.
      1. Kaiten
        Kaiten 12 June 2016 10: 01
        +9
        Quote: alicante11
        to create something serious by ourselves, rather weakly.

        Yes, you are absolutly right. trailing behind
      2. carp
        carp 12 June 2016 10: 46
        +2
        Quote: alicante11
        Every fifth is "our person".


        Yes, I beg you. "Ours" are not there, only theirs "trained for free". Therefore, their operation and upgrade are at the highest level, but to create something serious themselves is rather weak.




        You are not in the eyebrow, but in the eye. If we close our factories and instead of slop Merkav and Namerov we will purchase T-14 and T-15
        1. Setrac
          Setrac 12 June 2016 15: 09
          -8
          Quote: carpag
          If we close our factories and instead of slop Merkav and Namerov we will purchase T-14 and T-15

          Who will sell them to you? Use your already ... sediment.
    2. Kaiten
      Kaiten 12 June 2016 09: 58
      +5
      Quote: cap
      We need to go to Israel to see. Fortunately, now a visa is not needed for the Russians.

      Just do not photograph army objects otherwise if you do not have a deep. passports your visit will be delayed without your desire.
      1. Lex.
        Lex. 12 June 2016 12: 39
        +2
        Just do not photograph army objects otherwise if you do not have a deep. passports your visit will be delayed without your desire
        It depends on what photographs are taken on Independence Day to show all kinds of equipment.
      2. The comment was deleted.
  5. Filxnumx
    Filxnumx 12 June 2016 09: 20
    +2
    Quote: igor67
    Remaking the T55 into a heavy bhp Ahzarit


    And where was the infantry proper? Judging by the MTO photo, the tanks did not change. Then, it turns out, they put an enlarged tower or even a type of armored tank with a rear arrangement of doors (hatches). If there is, discard the photo, the namesake,
    1. igor67
      igor67 12 June 2016 10: 04
      +4
      Quote: Fil743
      Quote: igor67
      Remaking the T55 into a heavy bhp Ahzarit


      And where was the infantry proper? Judging by the MTO photo, the tanks did not change. Then, it turns out, they put an enlarged tower or even a type of armored tank with a rear arrangement of doors (hatches). If there is, discard the photo, the namesake,
      MTO transferred to before
      1. carp
        carp 12 June 2016 10: 42
        +4
        Wrong, the engine remained behind, but due to the fact that it was smaller than the original Soviet one, it turned out to make a rather big door and a passage for loading infantry behind.
        1. igor67
          igor67 12 June 2016 10: 52
          +1
          Quote: carpag
          Wrong, the engine remained behind, but due to the fact that it was smaller than the original Soviet one, it turned out to make a rather big door and a passage for loading infantry behind.

          http://topwar.ru/13284-tyazhelyy-izrailskiy-bronetransporter-ahzarit.html Мы уже обсуждали на сайте, и двигатель всё же смещён, и да он меньше
          1. carp
            carp 12 June 2016 11: 07
            +4
            You discussed on the site, and I rode on Akhzarite in Lebanon and during this time I managed to notice where he had an engine
            1. Rumata
              Rumata 13 June 2016 10: 44
              0
              Here, many people rode on the Ahzarites, and not only in Lebanon, this does not negate the fact that it was discussed many times in VO and in quite some detail ...
        2. MACCABI-TLV
          MACCABI-TLV 12 June 2016 11: 12
          +5
          Quote: carpag
          that it is smaller in size than the original Soviet one, it turned out to make a rather rather large door behind and a passage for loading infantry.

          So much mat is said in different languages, when passing through "not a small enough door and passage" wink
      2. voyaka uh
        voyaka uh 12 June 2016 11: 42
        +2
        Ahsatit, to simplify, did so: the tower with the T-54 was removed, the body was cut along
        full length. An insert extension of 1 meter was made. In the back at the insertion point it turned out
        door (narrow).
        1. merkava-2bet
          merkava-2bet 12 June 2016 12: 21
          0
          How many times was under the bottom of Akhzarit and had never seen a seam from a meter-wide insert, I saw an emergency driver’s hatch certified or an additional armor in the form of an anti-mine plate but not an insert. You do not confuse anything. The increase in volume was achieved due to the roof and reducing the MTO and that's it.
        2. The comment was deleted.
  6. Antiprogressor
    Antiprogressor 12 June 2016 09: 30
    0
    Quote: Fil743
    And where was the infantry proper? Judging by the MTO photo, the tanks did not change.

    Remade a bit: diesel and transmission put, it seems, English. And the door really, from the back side, there was still an interesting superstructure, so as not to jump out jumping.
    1. sabakina
      sabakina 12 June 2016 09: 50
      +2
      If anyone has the opportunity, show the converted to BMP. Fantasy is not enough to imagine.
  7. Lopatov
    Lopatov 12 June 2016 09: 40
    +19
    Some crap is written ...

    Firstly, Namer has nothing to do with the "rework program". Made from scratch.

    Second, the Americans did not "participate in the development" but participate in the production. Thus, Israel assimilates the funds allocated by the US authorities as military aid. It contains the obligation to use them for purchases from American manufacturers.

    Patriotism is when you praise yourself, and you do not water the neighbor guano.
    1. MACCABI-TLV
      MACCABI-TLV 12 June 2016 11: 13
      +1
      Quote: Spade
      Some crap is written ...

      +
    2. Pimply
      Pimply 12 June 2016 23: 25
      +3
      Quote: Spade
      Firstly, Namer has nothing to do with the "rework program". Made from scratch.

      Exactly
      Quote: Spade
      Second, the Americans did not "participate in the development" but participate in the production. Thus, Israel assimilates the funds allocated by the US authorities as military aid. It contains the obligation to use them for purchases from American manufacturers.

      Exactly
      Quote: Spade
      Patriotism is when you praise yourself, and you do not water the neighbor guano.

      Three out of three
  8. Professor
    Professor 12 June 2016 09: 48
    +11
    It is also worth noting that, following the example of the Russian heavy BMP T-15, created on the Armata platform, the Israelis are currently considering the possibility of replacing the Katlanit combat module with a remote-controlled gun with a caliber in 30 mm.

    Do not consider.
    Here you can remember that Namer, unlike “Armata”, which was originally created as a modular platform for a tank and a heavy infantry fighting vehicle, is a consequence of the old Israeli program of converting tanks into heavy infantry fighting vehicles.

    Rave. There was no such program.

    What is the article about? negative
    1. atalef
      atalef 12 June 2016 10: 02
      +1
      Quote: Professor
      What is the article about?


      I somehow did not understand.
      Well, most likely that Ahzarit is an unsuccessful copy of m = 15.
    2. Lopatov
      Lopatov 12 June 2016 10: 03
      +4
      Quote: Professor
      Rave. There was no such program.

      Trophy and obsolete tanks in the TBTR and special vehicles without any program redone? smile

      Starting from "Ambutanka" - dignity. machines based on "Sherman"

      .
      1. Professor
        Professor 12 June 2016 10: 33
        0
        Quote: Spade
        Trophy and obsolete tanks in the TBTR and special vehicles without any program redone?

        Israel has never had a "tank conversion" program. Israel has always appreciated and treasured tanks, both old and captured. Not a single active tank has been altered. Not a single tank battalion was disbanded for the purpose of creating TBTR or anything else. Teshki were used to the last, then some were sold, some were donated, and the rest were scrapped and on target. In the manufacture of heavy infantry fighting vehicles used elements of tanks. If you want to call it a "program", then the program was. hi
  9. merkava-2bet
    merkava-2bet 12 June 2016 10: 11
    +21
    Oh, God forgive me and give me the strength not to swear on the naive and thoughtless soul of a simpleton, the author of this creation. And now we went to fierce and sow confusion.
    1) Initially, the Merkava program was the goal of creating a single chassis for the tank self-propelled gun BTR BRM KSHM, etc., but the evil aunt economics intervened. Although many samples were created.
    2) Armored personnel carrier Ahzarit is not an ersatz but a well-thought-out concept of highly protected vehicles for infantry, an ersatz is a jeep with a cannon and roofed with iron roofs of which we see in Syria, Egypt, Iraq and Libya.
    3) Regarding mine protection, until recently, only two countries built mass tanks with high resistance to mines - these are Great Britain and Israel, for example, it all started with Centurion and then Chiften and Challenger, and we have Merkava and vehicles based on it. Only we went even further and improved it due to materials, technology, etc. That is, at the moment, the tanks of the Merkava family are the only tanks that have a high level of mine protection without prejudice to other combat qualities and this is really tested in battle.
    4) BTR Namer-2 except the engine is all Israeli-made, with the engine came some sort of political intrigue between Germany and Israel, although it is strange that the Germans sell us submarines without problems, although they are with politicians.
    5) On the BTR Namer-2, initially there was only a remote weapon, at first a caliber of 12,7 and then 25,30 and even 40 mm.
    6) The Almaty family was created with an eye to summarizing the fighting qualities of all tanks, including Merkava, and there is nothing shameful in this, everyone should learn from the mistakes of others and not from their own.
    7) Cunning Leonkov saying that depending on the situation it can be a tank or heavy infantry fighting vehicle, it can be right to say that on the basis of a single chassis it is possible to tank and infantry fighting vehicles and armored personnel carriers, etc. create with optimal performance.
    8) And the last, namely Namer-2 and BMP T-15, need to be compared since there are no other analogues so far.
    1. black
      black 12 June 2016 15: 40
      +2
      With one point, I do not agree with you. The concept of a single platform existed even under the USSR, without any regard to Merkava and Israel. Moreover, in Israel it did not work out.
      1. merkava-2bet
        merkava-2bet 12 June 2016 22: 12
        +1
        In the USSR, there was unification, and in Israel they wanted to get a single chassis for all options.
      2. The comment was deleted.
    2. sharkmen
      sharkmen 13 June 2016 10: 42
      0
      "That is, at the moment, the tanks of the Merkava family are the only tanks that have a high level of mine protection not to the detriment of other combat qualities, and this is really tested in battles."

      great thought. the question immediately arises - in opposing which tanks did the really not inferior capabilities appear?
      1. merkava-2bet
        merkava-2bet 14 June 2016 10: 45
        0
        What it means in the opposition of which tanks appeared really not inferior opportunities.
      2. The comment was deleted.
  10. JD1979
    JD1979 12 June 2016 10: 18
    +6
    Quote: Professor
    Rave. There was no such program.


    Did you redo yourself? Or a private initiative? Do not write nonsense. In any army, the entry of equipment into service is a state order and a program. Moreover, heavy armored personnel carriers have been and are being made for many years on the basis of different tanks. If you state the opposite, it is better not to disgrace.

    Quote: Professor
    What is the article about?


    Here I agree. Awl, honey, flowers and bees. Starting with the name - ersatz ... this is for Ukrainians ersatz, but here the normal technique is issued by the military-industrial complex, and not in the garage. And ending with the content - and here Ratnik, if you hinted at the BMP / BTR comparison, although you didn’t make comparisons, they threw some phrases about manufacturing, application and, as always, modularity, like cool, if modularity means this is the best.
  11. Alexander Romanov
    Alexander Romanov 12 June 2016 10: 23
    +13
    Equipment "Warrior" will draw a line under
    the concept of heavy infantry fighting vehicles T-15 "Armata"

    Awesome logic.
    1. atalef
      atalef 12 June 2016 10: 37
      +9
      Quote: Alexander Romanov
      Equipment "Warrior" will draw a line under
      the concept of heavy infantry fighting vehicles T-15 "Armata"

      Awesome logic.

      Yes, the whole article is such, what does the Warrior have to do with it?
      1. Alexander Romanov
        Alexander Romanov 12 June 2016 10: 57
        +2
        Quote: atalef
        What does the Warrior have to do with it?

        Nuuuuuuuu, it can be assumed that the equipment of the Warrior will draw a line under the concept of a heavy BMPT 15 Armata laughing
        1. Lopatov
          Lopatov 12 June 2016 17: 26
          +2
          Equipment requires TBTR or TBMP. For it is heavier than the one that was at the time of the development of the BMP-1/2. And in the "Ratnik" you don't really scoff at the tanks 8))))))))))))))))

          With new equipment, the line of dismounting should be as close as possible to enemy positions.
      2. MACCABI-TLV
        MACCABI-TLV 12 June 2016 11: 23
        +4
        Quote: atalef
        Yes, the whole article is such, what does the Warrior have to do with it?

        Yes, everything is clear by the way. The next author, once again called Namer BMP, and tried to compare, although he himself referred to in the article:
        "Military expert Alexei Leonkov in a conversation with FBA" Economics Today "noted that it is impossible to compare the Namer with the T-15" Armata ", since these are in no way parallel projects."
        Still to compare armored personnel carriers and infantry fighting vehicles .....
        1. merkava-2bet
          merkava-2bet 12 June 2016 12: 02
          0
          By the way, regarding the difference between armored personnel carriers and infantry fighting vehicles, in modern conditions this difference is already conditional, only the stereotype of the type of armored personnel carrier, it is wheeled and the infantry fighting vehicle is tracked.
          1. Aaron Zawi
            Aaron Zawi 12 June 2016 12: 23
            +6
            Quote: merkava-2bet
            By the way, regarding the difference between armored personnel carriers and infantry fighting vehicles, in modern conditions this difference is already conditional, only the stereotype of the type of armored personnel carrier, it is wheeled and the infantry fighting vehicle is tracked.

            There is still no difference in armament. If the Samson Mk2 DUM were installed on Namer, it would be TBMP.
            1. The comment was deleted.
            2. Idiot
              Idiot 12 June 2016 19: 13
              +1
              Quote: Aron Zaavi
              There is still no difference in armament. If the Samson Mk2 DUM were installed on Namer, it would be TBMP.


              Absolutely right! BMP: armored, shoots, carries infantry. APC: armored, shoots, carries infantry. If you put a powerful gun on an APC, it will become a BMP. If you remove a powerful gun - it will become an armored personnel carrier. In general, if my grandmother had a member, then she would be a grandfather ...
              1. Kaiten
                Kaiten 12 June 2016 20: 27
                +1
                Quote: pft, fkb
                In general, if my grandmother had a member, then she would be a grandfather ...

                If grandmother had a gun, she would be BMP
        2. The comment was deleted.
      3. Tektor
        Tektor 12 June 2016 12: 16
        +1
        Yes, the whole article is such, what does the Warrior have to do with it?
        And Warrior, interacting with Andromeda-D, qualitatively increases situational awareness. Allows you to distribute identified targets between the means of suppressing them. This means that one must less often go into reconnaissance in battle, which critically reduces the number of losses: the main task of the infantryman is to survive by completing the task, because anyone can die quickly.
    2. lelikas
      lelikas 12 June 2016 11: 15
      +2
      All the strength and power of the article is in its title, and what is thrown into its liquid broth in content is already secondary.
  12. voyaka uh
    voyaka uh 12 June 2016 10: 54
    +4
    "The versatility of this platform lies in the fact that, depending on the situation, it can be either a tank or a heavy infantry fighting vehicle, and during its development we did not focus on the Israelis", "/////

    How is this, depending on the situation? You can’t alter it on the battlefield ... The situation is an order of the military.
    The plant will make either tanks or infantry fighting vehicles.
    And so it is with us. Either more Merkava, but less Namer, or vice versa. How much will be allocated on the budget.

    As far as I understand, the T-15 is a car on the Armat chassis, where the chassis is deployed backwards.
    It’s easier here, we don’t have to deploy the chassis - the engine is ahead in both cases.
    Only the hull is built above.
  13. The comment was deleted.
  14. The comment was deleted.
  15. Aaron Zawi
    Aaron Zawi 12 June 2016 11: 20
    +5
    By the way, guys, has the armored carrier-based ARV already gone? We have yes.
    1. merkava-2bet
      merkava-2bet 12 June 2016 11: 31
      +1
      I am haunted by vague doubts that the photo is one of the first AREM prototypes based on Merkava-3 rather than 4.
    2. The comment was deleted.
    3. carp
      carp 12 June 2016 11: 41
      +1
      Is it at Namer's base? Or is it "offek" based on the "two" being written off?
      1. merkava-2bet
        merkava-2bet 12 June 2016 11: 50
        +2
        The chassis is definitely a triple and not a deuce.
      2. The comment was deleted.
      3. Aaron Zawi
        Aaron Zawi 12 June 2016 11: 51
        +1
        Quote: carpag
        Is it at Namer's base? Or is it "offek" based on the "two" being written off?

        I think this is what it is.
  16. marshes
    marshes 12 June 2016 12: 28
    +2
    Gentlemen, Israelis, you did not "exercise" on the creation of TBTR on the T-72 chassis?
    1. merkava-2bet
      merkava-2bet 12 June 2016 12: 35
      0
      This is a trick or a business proposal from a colleague.
      1. marshes
        marshes 12 June 2016 12: 40
        +1
        Quote: merkava-2bet
        This is a colleague’s supply or business proposal

        You can provide this option at one of the nearest exhibition. Ours can consider. Moreover, we still have a decent amount of T-72.
        1. Kaiten
          Kaiten 12 June 2016 13: 22
          +4
          Quote: marshes
          You can provide this option at one of the nearest exhibition. Ours can consider. Moreover, we still have a decent amount of T-72.

          In my opinion this is not necessary. The main advantage of the T-72 is its rate of fire and automatic charging (with all other disadvantages). Removing a tower from it, you actually turn it into a tank of the previous generation, and this does not need to be done, since there are plenty of tanks of the previous generation .. It is better to remake the old generation tanks of the T-54, T-55 and T-64 type in TBTR. A T-72 to modernize and strengthen protection.
          1. marshes
            marshes 12 June 2016 13: 47
            +1
            Quote: Kaiten
            remake old generation tanks T-54, T-55 and T-64 in TBTR

            Where you will find them with us, it makes no sense to buy scrap metal. If possible, we’ll buy something advanced. And in Semipalatinsk we can do something.
            Here is the fire truck. On the T-72.
            1. Kaiten
              Kaiten 12 June 2016 14: 09
              +5
              Quote: marshes
              Where you will find them with us, it makes no sense to buy scrap metal. If possible, we’ll buy something advanced. And in Semipalatinsk we can do something.
              Here is the fire truck. On the T-72.

              I do not know. For its time, the T-72 was an advanced tank. Its entire design "counteracts" its conversion into a heavy armored personnel carrier, like retraining a light cavalryman with a long spear into a heavy infantryman with a sword. In principle, the design of the T-72 is the design of the tank of the future, when robotic systems will replace people in tanks. Then all the disadvantages of the T-72 associated with weak protection will disappear, since the loss of the tank will not be associated with the death of people. So, the only modernization for the T-72 is the strengthening of its protection and the possible development of robotic systems for replacing the crew, like the Israeli modernization of the Israeli combat tractor D-9.
              1. marshes
                marshes 12 June 2016 14: 38
                +2
                Quote: Kaiten
                So, the only modernization for the T-72 is to strengthen its protection and the possible development of robotic systems to replace the crew, like the Israeli modernization of the Israeli military tractor D-9.

                Take a note. smile
                We value people, all the more so few of us. Besides some of the devotees, and then we are trying to enter into dialogue at first. Not a few good special forces soldiers have died or been injured, due to torture, we’ll agree.
                1. Kaiten
                  Kaiten 12 June 2016 14: 49
                  +3
                  Quote: marshes
                  We value people, the more we are few.

                  As far as I know, our cooperation is going well. Both in the military and in the civilian sphere.
                  1. marshes
                    marshes 12 June 2016 15: 07
                    +2
                    Quote: Kaiten
                    As far as I know, our cooperation is going well. Both in the military and in the civilian sphere.

                    Yes, thanks to oddly kinship ties and the oligarch Mashkevich.
                    Yes, I punched myself at the expense of a business, Our Foreign Ministry in your ambassador talked about this, so after these events it is necessary to time out.
                    And so the grandmother's nephews for the May holidays did not "come off" badly, all the same they forced some of the half-root photos to be removed from social networks. smile
          2. alicante11
            alicante11 12 June 2016 14: 05
            +2
            The main advantage of the T-72 is its rate of fire and automatic charging (with all other disadvantages)


            As well as mobility, low silhouette and lower cost.
            then the tank is not the last generation, but a mass tank. It is MBT, and not piece anti-sabotage vehicles.
            1. marshes
              marshes 12 June 2016 14: 20
              +2
              Quote: alicante11
              As well as mobility, low silhouette and lower cost.
              then the tank is not the last generation, but a mass tank. It is MBT, and not piece anti-sabotage vehicles.

              There is, by the way, interest in the T-90 MS. But where to break the T-72 to sell. smile
              About the low silhouette, I compared Armata with the T-90, it turns out 1 to 2. What UVZ, not to try the T-90, or T-72, do with the automatic loader like a leclerc, or add a fourth crew member. And place the BC behind the tower space, behind the explosion-proof partition. It is clear that the PSU needs to be redone, a lot of things are shorter to change the tower.
              An interesting conclusion for us in the future suggests itself on the MBT, they will not sell the Armata, then you will have to buy from others ... Although I would like UVZ to "reshape" the tower.
              By the way, the module on the t-90 under 7.62 is not bad, lightweight and responds quite quickly to situations.
              1. Kaiten
                Kaiten 12 June 2016 14: 42
                +1
                Quote: marshes
                But where to break the T-72 to sell.

                Sell ​​cheaply in all sorts of Honduras.
                1. marshes
                  marshes 12 June 2016 14: 53
                  +4
                  Quote: Kaiten
                  Sell ​​cheaply in all sorts of Honduras.

                  Yes, it doesn’t work, the competition is big. The same Ukraine or Russia. Still the former Warsaw Pact countries.
                  Here is one buyer "drew" Jordan does not mind? smile
                  Myama, those "scrap metal". How China and the United States will react to this. Neighbors to the south of the rogue and the main thing is that they don't turn their weapons against us. In short, both you and we have only "friends" in the district. smile
                  For which I respect you, 7-8 Lyams of the population against 300 Lyams who "respect" you.
                  1. Kaiten
                    Kaiten 12 June 2016 15: 08
                    0
                    Quote: marshes
                    Yes, it doesn’t work, the competition is big.

                    Means for storage. In a potential conflict with China, extra tanks will come in handy. In the conditions of modern war, a situation often develops that modern technology, after a short time of conflict, is knocked out by the enemy, and then the time of "storekeepers" comes. Reservists are put on the technique of the past and the generation before last.
                    Quote: marshes
                    For which I respect you, 7-8 Lyams of the population against 300 Lyams who "respect" you.

                    Unfortunately, I didn’t talk much with the Kazakhs, but how strangely there were several meetings here in Israel with tourists from Kazakhstan. Amazingly smart and reasonable people. They left behind only a pleasant experience.
                    Young people speak Russian very well. To my children like that.
                    1. marshes
                      marshes 12 June 2016 15: 31
                      +1
                      Quote: Kaiten
                      Means for storage.

                      It turns out like this.
                      Quote: Kaiten
                      . In the context of a potential conflict with China, extra tanks will come in handy

                      Yes, we don’t consider the conflict with China, given that in recent times this is the main investor. So if there is a hypothetical conflict with the PRC, the only place where the heavy equipment will go is the Dzhungar Gate, 12 km. . It is possible to overlap with one small nuclear bomb.
                      Quote: Kaiten
                      Reservists put on the technology of the past and the year before last generation.

                      Now we are studying your experience, now we are creating a terrorist defense, where there will be reservists like me.
                      Quote: Kaiten
                      Young people speak Russian very well. To my children like that.

                      In our country, Kazakhs speak Russian well, about 90 percent, and even the speech is correct in urban areas, compared with Moscow, so for me the city speaks cleaner Russian and writes correctly compared to Russia.
                      1. Kaiten
                        Kaiten 12 June 2016 15: 49
                        0
                        Quote: marshes
                        and even the speech is correct in urban, compared with Moscow, so for me, urban cleaner speak Russian and write competently compared to Russia.

                        I noted this, since I myself am from Moscow.
                      2. marshes
                        marshes 12 June 2016 16: 14
                        0
                        Quote: Kaiten
                        I noted this, since I myself am from Moscow.

                        By the way, I remember how your "SOKHNUT" seem so, they persuaded their daughter-in-law and sister-in-law Bratanovskaya to move for permanent residence smile , The first were their neighbors, those booklets are different for them there ... and about Nakhimov. smile Well, they left, as there without money, but where did poverty come from in Almaty, for example, odnushka 3.5 tias. dollars was. And B, the mother-in-law waited for 2006, the price of a dvizhuha for 100 thousand for a kopeck piece and went, here the bro added ... In short it is not badly arranged ... And so Det. the house was the daughter of a Polish officer, a teacher was called up as well. I looked at their photo album, it was hard on my soul. Seriously.
                      3. Kaiten
                        Kaiten 12 June 2016 16: 28
                        +1
                        Quote: marshes
                        "DRY"

                        The organization where the police investigation is crying.
                      4. marshes
                        marshes 12 June 2016 16: 34
                        +1
                        Quote: Kaiten
                        The organization where the police investigation is crying.

                        So what? Not the intended use of money?
                        and so we have the most favorite film in the family is PASSPORT. laughing
                        We have a big family smile .
                        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SLaoQERnqB4
                      5. Kaiten
                        Kaiten 12 June 2016 17: 37
                        0
                        Quote: marshes

                        So what? Not the intended use of money?

                        They like to turn purely Jewish scams. I do not want to write about it here. in a word.

                        Quote: marshes

                        and so we have the most favorite film in the family is PASSPORT.
                        Our family is big.

                        We also love this movie ...
                      6. marshes
                        marshes 12 June 2016 17: 43
                        0
                        Quote: Kaiten
                        We also love this movie ...

                        My older brother didn’t leave me so accidentally laughing Fortunately, we are different. He’s in my grandfather’s mother breed, Mari laughing not Aryans. And characters on a turn. laughing
                        Although zvizdyule weighs me out of breed laughing , although I myself am already under 100 kg. and he is under 65 kg.
                      7. Kaiten
                        Kaiten 12 June 2016 17: 49
                        +1
                        Quote: marshes
                        It’s so by chance that my elder brother didn’t leave. Fortunately, we are different, he’s my grandfather and mother, the Mari are not Aryans.

                        I have not seen so many "Jews" from the USSR. From Chechens to blondes from the Russian North (look like Scandinavians). But I was especially struck by the Jewish Korean and Tashkent. His appearance, of course, was far from the canonical Semitic.
                      8. marshes
                        marshes 12 June 2016 18: 03
                        +1
                        Quote: Kaiten
                        But I was particularly struck by a Korean Jew and Tashkent. His appearance, of course, was far from the canonical Semitic.

                        Well, you have not seen a Chinese Jew from Birobidzhan laughing There he saw on TV he practically "holds" the entire business.
                        And what has moved a lot from Bukhara? Given that .... Even the prident and one of the famous oligarchs of Russia.
                        Do you keep the "point" open there? If anything expands, we will help laughing
                      9. Kaiten
                        Kaiten 12 June 2016 18: 58
                        0
                        Quote: marshes
                        Well, you haven’t seen a Chinese Jew from Birobidzhan. I saw him on TV, he practically “holds” the entire business.
                        And what has moved a lot from Bukhara? Given that .... Even the prident and one of the famous oligarchs of Russia.
                        Do you keep the "point" open there? If anything expands, we will help

                        Yes, from everywhere came from Bukhara and France, the whole world in one country.
                      10. marshes
                        marshes 12 June 2016 19: 21
                        +1
                        Quote: Kaiten
                        Yes, from everywhere came from Bukhara and France, the whole world in one country.

                        From France what they lost, although they did not live but visited.
                        I am more worried about our Jews who made a false start, Dimasik was a neighbor of a telemaster, I could have raised that kind of money a bit later, and even sold an apartment. Fate is a cleaner at some factory. He came and talked.
                        Another, a kibbutz postman, voluntarily went to the west ... then he left for America, two years later, he was hiding in a big apple, the immigration service slammed, although I suggested that he be dumped in the middle west or in Texas, Texas would help. And there is no one at all who does not ask who and from where to lie to the Arab or Chinese did not look like.
                      11. Kaiten
                        Kaiten 12 June 2016 20: 31
                        +2
                        Quote: marshes
                        From France what they lost, although they did not live but visited.

                        France is quietly turning into Frankistan. Jews leave from there by silent glanders.
                        Quote: marshes
                        I am more worried about our Jews who committed false

                        Yes, some could not get settled, especially those who are older. But who wanted to, he learned the language and confirmed the diploma.
                      12. marshes
                        marshes 12 June 2016 20: 47
                        +1
                        Quote: Kaiten
                        France is quietly turning into Frankistan. Jews leave from there by silent glanders.

                        Well, judging by my house. Borica pepper, clique can certainly laughing In most cases, the Jews moved to Germany. smile Not on Schindler does not pull, business.
                        Quote: Kaiten
                        Yes, some could not get settled, especially those who are older. But who wanted to, he learned the language and confirmed the diploma.

                        Yes, Dimasik got there, he graduated from the Polytechnic Institute at the VChT, by the way yours later recognized this diploma, well, to whom ... he is 74 years old.
                        At the expense of recognition of diplomas, he was brother-in-law in Germany and he graduated from us Energy, heat elektr. the Germans recognized the station, well, they sent him away, although they did not conserve where the coal mine lives. laughing So he cuts the lawns and meal, his salary.
                        His wife N, they didn’t recognize the diploma, sent the paid, now they’ve learned, a physicist and a mathematician. She contains the whole family. But I don’t envy their lives, that they would pay off the mortgage, the father-in-law and his mother-in-law were sent 140 euros to them, by the way earned in KZ .Yes in the 90s, they helped us, machines after the 2000s THEIR Papa and Mama, and as a construction engineer they are intelligent.
  • The comment was deleted.
  • merkava-2bet
    merkava-2bet 12 June 2016 12: 37
    +3
    On the basis of the T-72 there is already an armored personnel carrier for flamethrowers.
    1. marshes
      marshes 12 June 2016 12: 49
      +1
      Quote: merkava-2bet
      On the basis of the T-72 there is already an armored personnel carrier for flamethrowers.

      Seem Chelyabinsk and Omsk people were doing this.
      As a matter of fact, your achievements are interesting. So there was infa that some people built an assembly shop near us, they will be assembling UAVs in the future. And a pretty long and fruitful cooperation is with Elbit.
  • RedBaron
    RedBaron 12 June 2016 17: 35
    +6
    Not an article, but a stream of consciousness with a jump from one topic to another and convulsive attempts to prove unavailable analogues in the world. No.
  • stone
    stone 13 June 2016 15: 09
    -1
    Quote: atalef
    Quote: Professor
    What is the article about?


    I somehow did not understand.
    Well, most likely that Ahzarit is an unsuccessful copy of m = 15.


    The fact of the matter is that the main message of the article is to show that the T-15 is the world's first serious heavy armored personnel carrier, invented in Russia. And the Israeli Namers, and earlier the Akhzahirites, are handicrafts: not quite that, "ersatz", not from their components, etc. They also forgot to point out that Namer is only for the local theater of operations.
  • tilix
    tilix 13 June 2016 21: 46
    +1
    "You see," one said to the other, "what a wheel! What do you think that wheel will reach, if it happens, to Moscow or not?" - "It will get there," answered another. "And I think it won't get to Kazan?" - "It won't get to Kazan," answered another.
  • tracer
    tracer 24 November 2016 05: 22
    0
    "Maybe it's better about the reactor? About Loved the lunar tractor .."