The main armament of the tank division being formed near Chelyabinsk will be the upgraded T-72

Upgraded T-72 will become the main weapons created in the South Urals tank divisions transfers TASS message of the representative of the Central Military District Yaroslav Roshchupkina.

The plans to create a tank compound in the Chelyabinsk region became known in January 2016.

“The formation of a tank division in the southern Urals will be completed before the end of the year. The compound, whose armament will be based on the upgraded T-72 tanks, will include a moto-rifle and self-propelled artillery regiments, an anti-aircraft missile division, reconnaissance, engineer-sapper battalions, and communications and material support units,

told the colonel.

He also noted that “the track, equipped for the Pan-Army stage of the Tank Biathlon and Suvorov Onslaught competitions, will be used in the training of the new connection tank crews”.

“This route will allow year-round at any time of the day to work out the driving standards, march, fire and other types of training,” Roschupkin added.

Comments

[Irokez]

While there are no new tanks, then of course we upgrade and supply the old ones. Cheap and cheerful. T-72 has not been written off from shields like T-34s at one time. The most massive tank.

[Lord of the Sith]

And there was hope for three T-90 baht, 41 vehicles in each and another T-14 company for training crews and running in equipment.

[Ami du peuple]

Quote: Sith Lord

And there was hope

For the east, it will do for now. Now it is urgently necessary to strengthen the north-west and west with the latest technology. The challenges there are much more serious.

[Alexei]

Quote: Ami du peuple

For the east, it will do for now.

This is a very important place. The narrowest: in the north, the Ural ridge, in the south of Kazakhstan. If serious unrest (in the future), Tatars, or young people (who went to the Yeltsin Center since childhood, go to Russia, then Russia will be split in two. At this point there are the most important traffic junctions, power lines, gas pipes running through it. Nazarbayev is not eternal, there is no guarantee that Kazakhstan will not turn into Ukraine, maybe these tanks will be enough for now, but then it will still have to be strengthened.

[alexmach]

Oh, and Nikita Sergeyevich distributed the countrymen. The Trotskyist is unfinished! He wanted the brushwood of the world revolution.

[Kent0001]

The correct position. The main threat now for us is not from the east.

[Ze Kot]

Quote: Ami du peuple

Now it is urgently necessary to strengthen the north-west and west with the latest technology. The challenges there are much more serious.

If we have a defensive doctrine, we must first build defensive lines, with the saturation of anti-aircraft defense and anti-tank weapons.

Just to accumulate troops near the border - this was already taking place in the 41st.

[yehat]

he rolled his lip behind the urals to get such weapons
the latest weapons and the best officers receive only parts near Moscow.

[Lieutenant Izhe]

[rolled his lip behind the urals to get such weapons

You shouldn't have forgotten about the modern "Central Asian Basmachism"!
This Chelyabinsk TD is created as an iron fist in the Central Asian theater.

[Alekseev]

Quote: Sith Lord

hope for three bats T-90, 41 cars in each and another separate company T-14

The division has three regiments, nine battalions, plus a TB MSP, apparently, there is not enough "gold reserve" for the T-90 and even more so for the Armata.
T-72 for overhaul with modernization in abundance, equipment for the division is already, in fact, available, but you need to upgrade better than the B3 modification.
Especially in the sense of security, observation devices of the tank commander and a normal closed ZPU.
And from Armat (and it would be better if this is an option with a 152-mm cannon), perhaps you need to create, while there are not enough of them, like during the Second World War, separate heavy tank regiments in order to use them in decisive directions.

[Hon]

Quote: Irokez

There are no new tanks yet

and T-90 how?

[Grandson of Veteran]

But the T-90 is sent to Syria. Maybe the opposite is necessary? T-72 with modernization in Syria, and with the money T-90 in Chelyabinsk?

[Wiruz]

But the T-90 is sent to Syria. Maybe the opposite is necessary? T-72 with modernization in Syria, and with the money T-90 in Chelyabinsk?

What for? If the replacement of most of the old tanks with the new T-14s begins soon. Or what do you suggest, now change the T-72 to the T-90, and after five years, replace the same T-90 with the T-14?

[Hon]

Quote: Wiruz

What for? If the replacement of most of the old tanks with the new T-14s begins soon? Or what do you suggest, now change the T-72 to the T-90, and after five years, replace the same T-90 with the T-14?

all tanks anyway will not replace the T-14. Now it’s better to buy t-90s and when the time comes for t-14s, put the purchased T-90s instead of the T-72 and T-72 to be stored

[yehat]

the majority? will never be the majority of t14. This is a heavy tank.

[Wiruz]

the majority? will never be the majority of t14. This is a heavy tank.

To me, somehow, its mass is indifferent, the main thing is that it passes as a "main battle tank". Even with a 152mm cannon, it will replace the current T-72, T-80, T-90. True, I'm afraid that they will not change in a "one to one" ratio

[alexmach]

Well, for this they are modernizing the mass T-72. Ideally, it would be necessary to modernize everything that is available. And 72 and 90. Americans constantly file their abrams.

[Viking]

And for some reason stupid developers declare that this is the "main tank". In terms of combat weight - average. The mass of the T-14 is 48 tons. The mass of the T-90 is 46 tons. Well?

[i80186]

Quote: yehat

the majority? will never be the majority of t14. This is a heavy tank.

There are no heavy tanks, as it were, there are only main battle tanks.
In addition, Armata is heavier than the T-90 by only 1,5 tons.

[Hon]

Quote: yehat

the majority? will never be the majority of t14. This is a heavy tank.

the main tank, according to our standards, should fit into 50 tons, T-14 weight is 48 tons

[es.d]

Will they give us "five years"? I don’t envy Putin. How many "such" decisions have to be made. History will judge ... by rock paintings

[Grandson of Veteran]

Wiruz (4) RO Today, 16:18 ↑ New
But the T-90 is sent to Syria. Maybe the opposite is necessary? T-72 with modernization in Syria, and with the money T-90 in Chelyabinsk?
What for? If the replacement of most of the old tanks with the new T-14s begins soon. Or what do you suggest, now change the T-72 to the T-90, and after five years, replace the same T-90 with the T-14?

Does upgrading 72-k UVZ carry out for free? Also money.

[yehat]

You don’t understand, T72 go to Chelyabinsk not because there is no money, but because it is Chelyabinsk, and not, say, Monino.

[Viking]

By the way the threat is now as it once was in recent decades from the west and not from the east of the country. And tanks from Monino in battle will be several times faster than tanks from the Urals. Questions?

[Lieutenant Izhe]

You don’t understand, T72 go to Chelyabinsk not because there is no money, but because it is Chelyabinsk, and not, say, Monino.

just because ... "just, NO MONEY!"
and, to recreate the steel shock fist of the SV - THE EDGE IS NEEDED!
A TD will be formed, armed with "BU modern", and training will begin on the basis of the latest "world combat tendencies".
As new equipment is released, its shortcomings are eliminated, they will rearm ...
BUT, coherence, training, experience of tank formation ALREADY WILL BE WORKED!
And, if the Central Asian Basmachi begins to puff up the scruff of the neck, then ... "there will be something to hit!"))

[yehat]

tanks are not afraid of mud until they cover the roof

[Deniska999]

Well, actually the border with Central Asia needs to be covered. Yes, and with China, too.

[Viking]

And even more so in terms of combat capabilities, the upgraded T-72B3 is superior to the T-90A as an example. Here is an example of the T-90MA, yes, the last word. Well, or the penultimate, in front of Armata. T-72 with a good modernization is still too early to be scrapped.

[Blackgrifon]

Quote: Irokez

T-72 has not been written off from shields like T-34s at one time. The most massive tank.

Only WHY does the main combat version of the T-72 - 72B3 and 72B3M not have the DZ space on the left side of the tower, although we are closing all the export versions? Why, until now, there is no remote anti-aircraft installation instead of an open anti-aircraft machine gun? And why the problem of placing part of the ammunition in the rear of the turret has not been resolved, which sharply reduces survivability (in general, the big question is HOW should the crew dodge in combat in order to push these several shells into the AZ?)?
The T-72 is a great car, but a few shortcomings significantly limit its potential.

[kayman4]

There is a version that these divisions will be formed by counterattacking from the Far East, because the standard of living in the West does not at all create a favorable environment for contract service in our difficult dangerous time. it is always easier to be a patrite in the west of the country in "words"

[svp67]

Quote: kayman4

There is a version that these divisions will be formed by counterattacking from the Far East, because the standard of living in the West does not at all create a favorable environment for contract service in our difficult dangerous time. it is always easier to be a patrite in the west of the country in "words"

I assure you that in the Urals there are enough people who want to serve in this division.

[kayman4]

Quote: Blackgrifon

Quote: Irokez

T-72 has not been written off from shields like T-34s at one time. The most massive tank.

Only WHY does the main combat version of the T-72 - 72B3 and 72B3M not have the DZ space on the left side of the tower, although we are closing all the export versions? Why, until now, there is no remote anti-aircraft installation instead of an open anti-aircraft machine gun? And why the problem of placing part of the ammunition in the rear of the turret has not been resolved, which sharply reduces survivability (in general, the big question is HOW should the crew dodge in combat in order to push these several shells into the AZ?)?
The T-72 is a great car, but a few shortcomings significantly limit its potential.

After reading the Internet, everyone imagines himself to be a specialist :) In a modern battle, targeting vulnerable points can only be done manually and only from a place, during this time a tank on "auto-sight" will send 3-4 shots at you - the first hit without even breaking through the tank will seriously put questioned your "targeting". So all this is good only for ambush-tank or ATGM ambushes Kashnikov remote ZPU is good at a long distance of 500-1000 in the field and then when you know exactly where the enemy is, not one remote can not be compared with a conventional ZPU machine gun

[Blackgrifon]

Quote: kayman4

In the conditions of modern combat, targeting vulnerable points can only be done manually and only from the spot, during this time a tank on "auto-sight" will send 3-4 shots at you

And what have tank duels have to do with it? Since when has DZ been designed primarily for protection against projectiles? Maybe for some it will be a revelation, but a trained operator or grenade launcher can also hit in the turret clearance, not to mention such a hefty "hole" that was left on 72B3.

Quote: kayman4

So all this is good only for ambush-tank or ambush PTR

Given that most modern conflicts occur in urban areas and metropolitan areas, the risk of being ambushed by the ATGM is more than great.

Quote: kayman4

remote ZPU is good at a long distance of 500-1000 in the field, and then when you know exactly where the enemy is - not one remote can not be compared with a conventional ZPU machine gun

Those. is it now no longer a means for self-defense of armored combat vehicles from infantry (including in the city)? And if in the field, then the tank commander can calmly climb out of the tower to the waist and work from a machine gun? And in your opinion, no sniper is afraid of him? That's how, for some reason, all around the fools are tormented, they develop or modernize tanks by installing DBUM, but it turns out that the ZPU only "see the quote" ...
All your arguments do not stand up to criticism and are easily refuted - you don’t even have to submit clippings from various sources - just recall the interview of the Syrian tank commander with ANNA.

[Andrew 447]

Blackgrifon

Maybe for some it will be a revelation, but a trained operator or grenade launcher can also hit in the turret clearance, not to mention such a hefty "hole" that was left on 72B3.

Colleague! Which operator and especially the grenade launcher ?? !! Do you even imagine an offensive battle of a tank regiment at the breakout site, usually in the 1 km band, this is when tanks are in the battle line at intervals of 15-20m (while firing at intervals of 2-3 rounds per minute) under cover of artillery of the regiment, division and army + aviation (turntables and ground attack aircraft) .And this shaft of fire goes ahead of the tanks to a depth of at least 5 km from the front edge of the enemy, while visibility in this smoky armageddon even in wet and windy weather will be 600-700 meters.Which of the members of the forum have experience in participating in regimental or divisional exercises with the BS will confirm my words. A division in Chelyabinsk will storm the city ?? !! Is this a joke? Tank divisions are not created for hunting bamolei, but for covering operational directions.

[kolkulon]

Could for three baht and tear off from storage.

[NDR-791]

And they are from storage and repairs. And so: a division is formed, an armored one, of a full staff, including air defense. Why is it in the Urals? That's right - for training and coordination. And what? The rambase is nearby, from everywhere fighters and weapons are brought closer, the Strategic Missile Forces are at hand, what else is needed? Formed, weaned and in a good way, and in their place the following. A completely different question, but from ancient times it was customary to meet the enemy as far away from home as possible ... Siberian divisions were formed not on the border with pshekia in the War, but just there in Kazakhstan (this option does not steer right now). So everything is fine, in Syria the T-90 is running in, and if that is the case, then for the next 10 we will fight on the T-72, the next 20 years - on the T-90.

[Verdun]

Quote: NDR-791

And they are from storage and repairs.

Only in storage of T-72 are 7000 units. Add to this what is scattered around the factories. The developed upgrade packages allow reaching the T-72 to the T-90 level. If you strain, then in a relatively short time and at a low price you can get about 10 fully operational vehicles. It’s clearly not worth neglecting such a force.

[kayman4]

7000 is that you have gone too far; there is no longer such an amount of T-72 in storage - rather T-80 is there soon they will go to the troops and, as T-72B3 surpasses T-90A

[Verdun]

Quote: kayman4

7000 is that you went too far

Information taken online. And personally, I believe that it would be much more important to upgrade the existing T-80s in storage. Whatever you say, this tank is stronger than the T-72. And for a European theater of operations, the turbine is not a drawback.

Soviet T-80 - Moscow's response to the Leopard-2. It is not only equal to the German machine, but also significantly superior to it. As a soldier and tank specialist, I consider the T-80 the best tank in the world.

Such an assessment of the T-80 was given by the former Minister of Defense of Syria Mustafa Tlas.
Himself, when he served an emergency in the SGV, he talked with tank officers, who believed that eighty in battle was more effective than the T-72. Many said that this is the only tank that must be held during acceleration. However, because of the = monopoly of the Uralvagonozavod, the chance of upgrading these tanks is small.

[Blackgrifon]

Quote: Verdun

Many said that this is the only tank that must be held during acceleration.

I read somewhere that the T-80s were able to disperse to one of the landfills to 115 km / h (though for this they removed the entire spare parts, additional tanks and ammunition).

[Verdun]

Quote: Blackgrifon

I read somewhere that the T-80 at one of the landfills could accelerate to 115 km / h

One familiar tanker said that in Soviet times he overtook the Ikarus intercity buses on the road in a completely serial T-80U.))

[Blackgrifon]

Quote: kayman4

7000 is that you have gone too far; there is no longer such an amount of T-72 in storage - rather T-80 is there soon they will go to the troops and, as T-72B3 surpasses T-90A

T-80 has long been removed from service.
T-72B3, to put it mildly, a very stripped-down modification:
incomplete cover for DZ,
lack of protection against tandem shots,
medium power engine
open anti-aircraft machine gun
the absence of a target tracking machine and an air conditioner,
lack of additional AZ protection (in contrast to the same T-90), and from the pluses: the appearance of Contact-5 and the installation of a modern FCS).
The T-90 was superior to only one modern modification of the 72ki - the T-72B2, but it was not accepted into service. In fact, a more or less adequate version of the 72ki is the T-72B3M (taking into account the state order for 2016) - it has already been equipped with the Relikt DZ.

[Verdun]

Quote: Blackgrifon

T-80 has long been removed from service.

According to the data available on the network, 3000 pieces are in storage. And the plant that produces turbines for them in business. And the chassis holds a large mass and constructively allows for more serious upgrades than on the T-72, significantly increasing the level of protection. Another thing is that the cost of a turbine is many times higher than the cost of a diesel engine.

[alexmach]

The developed upgrade packages allow reaching the T-72 to the T-90 level.

The phrase "by some parameters" is missing here :)

[tankovod]

Quote: kolkulon

Could for three baht and tear off from storage.

So T90 is a product that is in demand on the international market, you can sell it if you can, but it will come off with yours and T72, there’s nothing to roll out your lip, let them rejoice that it’s not T34

[Andrey Sukharev]

Well, yes, we still have T34 and T10 at our bases in case of an atomic war;)

[marshes]

Quote: Andrey Sukharev

Well, yes, we still have T34 at our bases

34 have long been withdrawn from service, in the 90s, due to the lack of shells.

[Sergey-72]

Why talk about three baht? The TD has three tank regiments, each with three battalions, totaling 9 tank battalions. The only place of the PSA will be written by the ZRDn.

[Thunderbolt]

Quote: Sergey-72

The only place of the PSA will be written by the ZRDn.

Why will there be a division instead of a regiment? This is not enough for a division, unless separate divisions are given as reinforcement.

[Lieutenant Izhe]

Why will there be a division instead of a regiment? This is not enough for a division, unless separate divisions are given as reinforcement.

Of course, against the NATO troops 1 zrdn in the TD-small!
But it looks like this Chelyabinsk (Chebarkul) TD is being created for the Central Asian theater of operations against the "Basmachi" ... on which serious air support of the enemy is not predicted.

[Thunderbolt]

I agree, I also have a motorized rifle brigade "aimed" at Sr. Asia. And first of all, they replaced the armored personnel carrier there, modernize artillery, master the latest control and communication systems. But their anti-aircraft gunners are still content with "what God sent." over time, it will be necessary to balance all the parts according to their capabilities. during the exacerbation in the Donbass, the combined group of this brigade trained near Rostov (it is clear that it is not the Basmachi to crush).
The brigades that we set in the western direction should not have such an imbalance IMMEDIATELY.
They must have the means to act in the most difficult circumstances with an adversary equal in technical equipment and organization.
And they say about the T-14 here, my opinion is that they will arm individual tank battalions. And to show what they are capable of, for example, by acting together with the battalions of the Taman division. They have advanced the farthest in mastering the methods of "network-centric combat". Although there is reasonable the idea is "limping", the defense industry cannot give the military exactly what they want to have. Although, this is only my opinion and I may be mistaken.

[marshes]

In short, they will look at the south.

[masiya]

Excellent, but according to the historical parallel, it is necessary for the crews to provide equipment with Zlatoust black finches, as in the Second World War, there was the legendary 10th Guards Tank Ural-Lvov Order of the October Revolution, the Red Banner, orders of Suvorov and Kutuzov, the volunteer division named after Marshal of the Soviet Union R. Ya. Malinowski.
Especially for the Ural Volunteer Tank Corps in Zlatoust, 3356 Finnish knives (“black knives”) were produced. These short blades with black handles, which were in the arsenal of our tankers, inspired fear and respect for the enemies. Schwarzmesser Panzer-Division The Schwarzmesser Panzer Division, the Black Knives tank division, was what German intelligence called the Ural Corps on the Kursk in the summer of 1943. Personnel are also recruited from the working people of the Urals.

[Andrew 447]

the legendary 10 Guards Tank Ural-Lviv Order of the October Revolution, the Red Banner, the orders of Suvorov and Kutuzov Volunteer Division named after Marshal of the Soviet Union R. Y. Malinovsky.

My first place in the GSVG service, Potsdam. The 1983 division was redeployed to Altengrabov from Potsdam. The division had a glorious battle path (during the Great Patriotic War 10, the Guards Tank Corps stormed Prague, the tank with the 412 number was installed in Prague, it was the first to break into the city) I didn’t even know that after the withdrawal from the GSVG, the division was disbanded, but only the Heroes of the Soviet Union had more than 10 people in the division, and the T-64А; 64Б; 64Б1 were in service. Very happy about its revival.

[marshes]

And yet, Armata in comparison with the T-90 seems huge.
Maybe on the T-90 it was easier to change the tower and the automatic loader like a lekler did.

[Evgeniy667b]

In Chebarkul in 2004 the 15th Guards were disbanded. etc? It would be very nice if the new connection inherits this number. The division showed itself well in Operation Danube (entry into Czechoslovakia) and in the Chechen company.
As for the T-90, it is considered the modernized T-72-no worse, But for some reason in Syria, the T-90 is preferable. You can let the fog in, that the modernized 72nd is a super-duper, without thinking about those tankers they will go into battle on it, and in the 90s do headstock. What is actually wrong, or even criminal. Judging by Syria, the T-90 is a step forward compared to its predecessor. In the Russian army, there should be the best equipment, and not what remains of sales.

[kayman4]

T-90 was delivered to Syria from storage bases so that B3 wouldn’t go there :)

[Andrey VOV]

Many many many times, dear people, specialists, tank crews unanimously say that it’s not the iron structure that is fighting, but a well-knit trained crew .... and first of all it depends on them, then the characteristics of the tank ... the t-72 is cool in all a car, and in capable hands a formidable weapon capable of a lot. In addition, in the event of a conflict in that region, our modern T-72s will not be opposed by super modern enemy tanks, the maximum anti-tank system ... and not the fact that the javelins ... .so, the harsh, strong, powerful Chelyabinsk guys on tanks is POWER !!!!!!

[chunga-changa]

It's a pity not the T-90MS. The army is already almost contractual, and the equipment continues to be used for conscripts.

[TRex]

In my opinion, something here all the "observers" rolled their lips. Everything about hardware, yes about hardware ... Nobody wants to say anything about personnel? There are three divisions in the West, here is a tank division ... But what about the officers, gentlemen? Shall we recruit from the stock? Anyone sane, professional can say? Or do we have "horseless" lieutenants-captains of tankers - a legion, or engineers, or artillerymen and other military specialties?
After the REFORM OF MILITARY EDUCATION, there are certain problems, as far as I know .... Ah, yes .. I forgot ... Contractors - superprofessionals, as well as training for junior command personnel that quickly rivet thousands of 10 - 20 commanders will solve all the problems.

[Andrey VOV]

Chelyabinsk, Omsk, Ulyanovsk, Kazan universities for the training of tankers, or rather officers of tank troops

[TRex]

Do you want to say higher education institutions - higher military educational institutions? Here you go through the cities ... how many of them (VVUZOv) remain, how many officers will be released, etc. and in what condition is the educational material base (i.e. what remains after Serdyukovism). Meticulously study the topic, and then together we will shout Hurray!

[something like]

Quote: Andrey VOV

Chelyabinsk, Omsk, Ulyanovsk, Kazan universities for the training of tankers, or rather officers of tank troops

MORE BLAGOVESCHINSK WAS AS I DON’T KNOW AND FROM THE LISTED CHELYABINSK AND KAZAN IS CLOSED

[marshes]

Quote: something like this

MORE BLAGOVESCHINSK WAS AS I DON’T KNOW AND FROM THE LISTED CHELYABINSK AND KAZAN IS CLOSED

What was Blagoveshchensk? He himself there saw how the pillars were guarded and thorned into the ice of the Amur.
Bro had a service in the Free ...

[TRex]

Omsk tank, too, no. It's time to shout Hurray !!! I hope something remains in Ulyanovsk ... Andryukha WWII! Now you understand what I mean — let’s figure out the tankers as an example — how many officers with specialized education are needed to equip three motorized rifle and one tank divisions. Who in the subject - he will understand what my soul hurts.

[Prometey]

It is interesting, and when the roads in the region will make and freeze for years, the growth of payments for a communal apartment, which already eats 1/2 of its income from pensioners. And is the formed tank division probably being formed in case of possible unrest?

[mult-65]

In the 91st, these divisions were an order of magnitude larger. Did it help?

[berezin1987]

T-72 - a good mass tank, it is in vain that many scold. When upgraded to the t-72б3м level, the tank will serve for another 15-20 years. In terms of characteristics, the modernized tank is in no way inferior to its competitors in the west (like the leopard 2-4 and a5).

[faterdom]

It was sad to watch when divisions were sawing, turning them into brigades, regiments, or even battalions, under the chatter that "their effectiveness would not be reduced." And now, to recreate divisions, albeit with a number of several pieces, is not such an easy task, and what kind of tanks there will be is the second thing. Compared with the coherence of the headquarters, the organization of interaction between units, intelligence, communications, engineering support, air defense electronic warfare, logistics, supply and rear.
Did anyone have to see a deployed division in which the rear squandered and did not feed parts of this division in the field in the north for a couple of days? I will report to you - an unforgettable sight! Thank God - the places were almost uninhabited when anyone got on anything - including tanks and BATs, they were looking for a bug who was fishing in lakes.
Well, the last step is not enough to return the meaning of that still pre-Gorbachev division - it is necessary to return the OTR missile divisions to the composition.
But already in the existing division, it is possible to carry out re-equipment, and retrain new models of equipment, as always before.

[ramzes1776]

Quote: faterdom

Well, the last step is not enough to return the meaning of that still pre-Gorbachev division - it is necessary to return the OTR missile divisions to the composition.

Have you forgotten about the helicopter squadrons in each division?

[96423 lom]

At this stage, seventy-two will do. The main opponents Abrams, Challenger and Leopard-2 are almost the same age.

[Wolka]

according to this, a noble cam is being formed, and Kazakhstan the forerunner also began to do so, and as for the weapons, it’s not the weapon that glorifies the soldier, but the soldier-man glorifies the weapon ...