Military Review

Irkutsk aircraft manufacturers introduced a new passenger aircraft MS-21

337
A presentation of a new medium-haul passenger aircraft MC-21-300 took place at the Irkutsk Aviation Plant, a correspondent reported RIA News from the scene.


Irkutsk aircraft manufacturers introduced a new passenger aircraft MS-21


“Russian Prime Minister Dmitry Medvedev, Deputy Prime Ministers Arkady Dvorkovich and Dmitry Rogozin, Industry and Commerce Minister Denis Manturov, as well as President of the MS-21 development company, Irkut Corporation Oleg Demchenko, took part in the ceremony of rolling out the aircraft, - said in a statement.

“A few years ago we decided to make a plane that will take a worthy place in the global aviation market. We are confident that MC-21 will be the best in its class. Today I want to thank the designers, engineers, workers, managers of enterprises - we have invested in the aircraft not only the most advanced technical solutions, but also invested our whole soul, ”said the head of the company.

According to him, "rolling out the aircraft is only the beginning." “The first flight of the MC-21-300 will be based on the results of ground testing at the flight test station while it is scheduled for December 2016 - February 2017 of the year. The first delivery of the aircraft to the customer is scheduled for the end of 2018, ”he said.



“The MC-21 family of aircraft is focused on the most capacious segment of the global aviation market. The composite wing of high elongation, the increased diameter of the fuselage, engines and systems of the latest generation can reduce operating costs, increase comfort for passengers and meet the requirements of promising standards for environmental impact, ”the company said.

According to the developers, “MC-21 will give airlines the opportunity to shorten the turnaround time at the airport by 20% - a wide central aisle and pivot-type luggage racks allow passengers to quickly and conveniently board and disembark.”

It is noted that the liner family includes two models: “MC-21-200 is designed to carry from 132 to 165 passengers, MC-21-300 is able to lift aboard from 163 to 211 passengers”.

Irkut already has “firm orders for 175 liners,” including and from Aeroflot, which ordered 50 aircraft.

Meanwhile, Rostec reported that a new airliner could be equipped with anti-missile defense.

According to the press service of the corporation, the installation of the on-board defense complex "President-S" plans to take up the concern "Radio-Electronic Technologies". "

The company also noted that civil aircraft are already partially equipped with antimissile defense.

According to the adviser to the deputy general director of the concern, Vladimir Mikheev, the enterprise “has already begun to develop a new integrated avionics-based complex of onboard equipment, which, first of all, will be designed for the new medium-haul aircraft MS-21-300”.

Photos used:
IA News. Sergey Safronov
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  1. Spartanez300
    Spartanez300 8 June 2016 12: 41
    +37
    Our factory will certainly not remain without work, by the way, recently I saw the MS-21 already circled in the sky. Today at the presentation there were 800 people, including 300 foreigners. Mr. Medvedev was also present with his retinue.
    1. Muvka
      Muvka 8 June 2016 12: 44
      +18
      Quote: Spartanez300
      Our factory will certainly not remain without work, by the way, recently I saw the MS-21 was already circled in the sky. Today at the presentation there were 800 people, including 300 foreigners.

      The first flight only at the end of this year. So far, only the engine on the IL-76 was run in the sky.
      1. CORNET
        CORNET 8 June 2016 12: 51
        .
        I hope rockets can be suspended from him ....?
        1. oldseaman1957
          oldseaman1957 8 June 2016 13: 17
          +47
          Quote: CORNET
          I hope rockets can be suspended from him ....?
          - Rockets have something to hang! But we have almost nothing to carry passengers! And the military enterprise "IRKUT", in their own words, "with great joy" started the construction and production of RUSSIAN civilian passenger liners. Good luck!
          1. firefighter
            firefighter 8 June 2016 15: 31
            +5
            Yeah! And we have all the harvesters with vertical take-off! What for??? civilian aircraft for internal rocket lines? Kear - Caesarean ... And the right bird. And kraaaaaava!
            1. Alexy
              Alexy 8 June 2016 15: 43
              +10
              Read the text. No one is going to hang rockets. Missile defense is not rockets.
              1. Dormidont2
                Dormidont2 8 June 2016 17: 08
                -4
                it's about hanging kr Caliber wink
                1. Mahmut
                  Mahmut 9 June 2016 06: 14
                  -3
                  Engine position too low. Not every lane will accept such a plane.
              2. Besmaster
                Besmaster 9 June 2016 02: 44
                +1
                Actually, that was the answer to this post. And here is the text of the article?
                Quote: CORNET
                I hope rockets can be suspended from him ....?
          2. Dormidont2
            Dormidont2 8 June 2016 17: 12
            +4
            like IL96 they want to upgrade and release, they came to their senses when the Boeing 787 is already flying, it was necessary to develop a long-range aircraft together with ms 21, or to make composite wings-tail plus a new pd96 engine for IL18 and it will be possible to replace long-range air-basses
            1. Dormidont2
              Dormidont2 8 June 2016 17: 13
              0
              I remember neDimon went as a presom in the United States to buy 5 lard Boeing am
            2. Lt. Air Force stock
              Lt. Air Force stock 8 June 2016 17: 43
              +10
              Quote: Dormidont2
              to develop a long-range aircraft,

              In cooperation with the Chinese, we will build a long-range aircraft. The problem is that big planes are not particularly needed right now. On the A380, there are only 300 orders, in recent years they no longer arrive. At 747-8, there are also practically no orders for 2-3 aircraft per year.
              Russia needs to build a long-range aircraft, with the number of passengers 300-350 and a range of 14000-15000 kilometers.
              Most likely the Boeing will produce only 737MAX, 787, and 777 (there are practically no orders for 767, and why is it needed when there are 787).
              As for Airbus, they will produce А320NEO, А330NEO, А350, and for some time А380, the market for large aircraft is rather small; for short-haul aircraft, there are orders for 2500 aircraft, and as I wrote above about A380, there are about 300 orders in total.
              Russia needs an airplane something similar to the A350 and Boeing 787. As an option, it is possible to design on the basis of the MC21, but powerful engines with a thrust of more than 30 tons are needed, if the PD-14 is not mistaken, the thrust is 17,5 tons, and the most powerful engines in the USSR did in Ukraine, the D-18T with a thrust of 23,5 tons, but they are already quite old, voracious and not powerful enough.
              If I am not mistaken on a Boeing 777, the thrust of one engine is 57 tons.
              1. Skifotavr
                Skifotavr 8 June 2016 22: 40
                +6
                Quote: Lt. Air Force stock
                In cooperation with the Chinese, we will build a long-range aircraft.

                Unless on the principle: brains from Russia + technology transfer, and money from the Chinese. Like the Russian-Indian anti-ship missile Bramos. In my opinion this is a very dubious investment. Although maybe I'm wrong ... Ukraine, from poverty in general, is distributing aviation and missile technologies to the left and right for nothing.
                1. Skifotavr
                  Skifotavr 8 June 2016 22: 49
                  +3
                  I also don’t understand why the Russian government itself offered the Chinese to create a heavy helicopter together. After all, this means that Russia will create, and transfer to the Chinese and also train their designers. In addition, in the 70s they already saw their gratitude for such "gifts from the white gods."
                  1. hunt1
                    hunt1 9 June 2016 10: 59
                    +3
                    it is called will be integrated into the world of those. chains on the sidelines. Kudrin to help you there are many such tips.
                2. Lt. Air Force stock
                  Lt. Air Force stock 8 June 2016 22: 50
                  0
                  Quote: Skifotavr
                  Unless on the principle: brains from Russia + technology transfer, and money from the Chinese.

                  I wonder what happens, and what the airplane will look like. It will be an A350 / 787 or rather a big Boeing 777. In any case, it is unlikely to be a four-engine aircraft.
                  1. Skifotavr
                    Skifotavr 8 June 2016 23: 17
                    +2
                    Quote: Lt. Air Force stock

                    I wonder what happens, and what the airplane will look like. It will be an A350 / 787 or rather a big Boeing 777. In any case, it is unlikely to be a four-engine aircraft.

                    You yourself correctly noted that for a twin-engine, Russia does not yet have such engines. Unless they decide to buy western ones. To be honest, I am very skeptical of any joint projects between Russia and China. China is a very difficult, arrogant and unreliable partner, and besides, there’s nothing good to take from it. Only he intends to take. He seemed to have succeeded in electronics - but the electronic components that he sold to Russia in quality were worthless.
                    1. Lt. Air Force stock
                      Lt. Air Force stock 8 June 2016 23: 41
                      +3
                      Quote: Skifotavr
                      You yourself correctly noted that for a twin-engine, Russia does not yet have such engines. Unless they decide to buy western ones. To be honest, I am very skeptical of any joint projects between Russia and China. China is a very difficult, arrogant and unreliable partner, and besides, there’s nothing good to take from it. Only he intends to take. He seemed to have succeeded in electronics - but the electronic components that he sold to Russia in quality were worthless.

                      Well, if you look at other international projects, for example, the 5th generation Russian-Indian aircraft, and the multi-purpose transport aircraft (MTS) project, then in practice this is a one-goal game. The Indians do not participate in the development.
                      The transport project is frozen, and we create PakFa ourselves, we will naturally sell the export version to them.
                      As for the engine with high thrust, they say that on the basis of PD-14 you can create an engine with a thrust of 30-35 tons by installing a larger gas generator, this thrust is enough to build a competitor A-350/787, but if we take a swing at 777, then there is much more traction needs more than 50 tons.
                      1. Skifotavr
                        Skifotavr 9 June 2016 00: 08
                        +2
                        Quote: Lt. Air Force stock
                        Well, if you look at other international projects, for example, the 5th generation Russian-Indian aircraft, and the multi-purpose transport aircraft (MTS) project, then in practice this is a one-goal game. The Indians do not participate in the development.
                        The transport project is frozen, and we create PakFa ourselves, we will naturally sell the export version to them.
                        As for the engine with high thrust, they say that on the basis of PD-14 you can create an engine with a thrust of 30-35 tons by installing a larger gas generator, this thrust is enough to build a competitor A-350/787, but if we take a swing at 777, then there is much more traction needs more than 50 tons.

                        Yes, I recall that about PD-14 I read somewhere that in the future much more powerful versions can be created on the basis of it. But you obviously made a mistake about the engine draft of the Boeing 777 of 57 tons - the total power of the 777 cannot be greater than that of Ruslan. As for the joint project with China, I simply do not know. If it really is beneficial to Russia and it does not lose anything from this, then it’s good. And I did not believe in a fifth-generation fighter project with India from the very beginning. They are generally very moody and do not know what they need, but they are terribly corrupt, which leaves its mark on cooperation with them.
                      2. Lt. Air Force stock
                        Lt. Air Force stock 9 June 2016 00: 28
                        0
                        Quote: Skifotavr
                        But you obviously made a mistake about the engine draft of the Boeing 777 of 57 tons - the total power of the 777 cannot be greater than that of Ruslan.

                        The GE90-115B has a thrust of 510 kN, which is 57 tons.
                        https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_777
                      3. adept666
                        adept666 9 June 2016 09: 06
                        +2
                        and 510 kN, it is 57 tons.
                        514 kN and this is 52,4 tons of thrust in normal operation, while in emergency mode during the engine race it pumped up to 568.9 kN = 57,92 tons, but this way it can work for a short time and only at the stand.
                      4. Skifotavr
                        Skifotavr 9 June 2016 13: 38
                        +1
                        Quote: Lt. Air Force stock
                        The GE90-115B has a thrust of 510 kN, which is 57 tons.
                        https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_777

                        Perhaps you were right. By the way, I didn’t set you a minus.
                    2. adept666
                      adept666 9 June 2016 09: 12
                      +2
                      But you obviously made a mistake about the engine draft of the Boeing 777 of 57 tons
                      In test mode, it reached such values ​​of 57,92 tons of thrust, in normal mode, 52,4 in maximum / take-off mode.
                      - 777 cannot have a total thrust greater than that of Ruslan.
                      Yes? Hmm ... why?
                    3. Skifotavr
                      Skifotavr 9 June 2016 13: 26
                      +2
                      Quote: adept666
                      But you obviously made a mistake about the engine draft of the Boeing 777 of 57 tons
                      In test mode, it reached such values ​​of 57,92 tons of thrust, in normal mode, 52,4 in maximum / take-off mode.
                      - 777 cannot have a total thrust greater than that of Ruslan.
                      Yes? Hmm ... why?

                      I proceeded from the fact that Ruslan is still an airplane of a different dimension, purpose and carrying capacity. And judging by the video, his running distance is not very large. I don’t know, maybe I'm wrong. Honestly, I did not suspect that the power of the engines of the latest modifications of the Boeing 777 reaches such values.
                    4. adept666
                      adept666 9 June 2016 13: 59
                      +1
                      I proceeded from the fact that Ruslan is still a plane of a different dimension

                      777-300ER (namely, the designated engines are installed on it) ---------------
                      Length: 73,9 m, Height: 18,7 Wingspan: 64,8 Max. weight: 351 534 kg
                      An-124 ----------------------------------------------- ------
                      Length 69,1, Height 21,08, Wingspan 73,3 Max. weight: 392 kg.
                      Those. the planes are very close Ruslan shorter by 4,8 meters, 2,38 higher and has 8,5 meters more wingspan (and wing profile: area larger), due to which it also wins somewhat in carrying capacity with lower total engine power.
                      Honestly, I did not suspect that the power of the engines of the latest modifications of the Boeing 777 reaches such values.
                      Not at all, but only at 777-300ER.
                    5. Skifotavr
                      Skifotavr 9 June 2016 19: 39
                      0
                      The cargo modification of the Boeing-777 with engines of approximately 48 tons has a carrying capacity of 103 tons, and the carrying capacity of the base modification of the An-124-100 is 120 tons, and the An-124-100M-150 modernized by Antonov, but with the same engines is already 150 tons ... So the difference is very significant.
                    6. adept666
                      adept666 9 June 2016 22: 42
                      0
                      Boeing-777 with engines of about 48 tons has a carrying capacity of 103 ... of the base modification of An-124-100 - 120 tons, and the An-124-100M-150 modernized by Antonov, but with the same engines already 150 tons.
                      So think about where the reserve of 30 tons came from with the same total thrust. Purely theoretically, the 777F could have pulled even more off the ground, but its chassis and fuselage are not designed for such loads (it’s not a clean transporter because it has left the passenger modification), but it has 103 tons due to the engine’s power reserve and their economy (a large degree of bypass) can transport over a distance of 9040 km (with higher cruising and maximum speeds), the same modernized Antonov 120 tons to 5400, which, as it were, hints that if he strengthened the fuselage and chassis of the Boeing, he would have comparable transport characteristics at two engines, greater range and speed smile
                    7. Skifotavr
                      Skifotavr 10 June 2016 09: 51
                      0
                      Quote: adept666
                      So think about where the reserve of 30 tons came from with the same total thrust. Purely theoretically, the 777F could pull even more off the ground, but its chassis and fuselage are not designed for such loads (it’s not a clean transporter because it got out of the passenger modification), but it has 103 tons due to the engine’s power reserve and their economy (a large degree of bypass) can transport to a distance of 9040 km (with higher cruising and maximum speeds), the same modernized Antonov 120 tons at 5400, which, as it were, hints that if he strengthened the fuselage and the Boeing’s chassis, he would have comparable transport characteristics at two engines, greater range and speed

                      Yes, I understand that, just on these aircraft the maximum engine power is used only on takeoff. So I was surprised - why did Boeing, which was not designed for such a load as that of Ruslan, have such power. In military transport aviation, there is now a fashion to equip them with more powerful engines to ensure a short take-off. But for the passenger 777, such a task did not seem to be set - in the west, airports have no problems with the length and quality of the runway.
  • Skifotavr
    Skifotavr 8 June 2016 23: 37
    +1
    I found here that the thrust of the Boeing 777-200 engine is 33,6 tons.
  • cast iron
    cast iron 8 June 2016 23: 58
    +9
    Judging by the prices set by the Russian capitalists for air tickets and railway transport, the Russians will soon be sitting at home in large numbers and not going anywhere - it is painfully expensive. So long-range and other aircraft will not be needed)))
    1. Skifotavr
      Skifotavr 9 June 2016 00: 28
      -2
      Quote: cast iron
      Judging by the prices set by the Russian capitalists for air tickets and railway transport, the Russians will soon be sitting at home in large numbers and not going anywhere - it is painfully expensive. So long-range and other aircraft will not be needed)))

      So the capitalists will have to change their mind wink
  • Al1977
    Al1977 9 June 2016 11: 16
    0
    Quote: Lt. air force reserve
    Russia needs to build a long-range aircraft, with the number of passengers 300-350 and a range of 14000-15000 kilometers.

    Tell us, where would you, as the Director of the Airline, deliver this aircraft and ensure its loading?
    1. Lt. Air Force stock
      Lt. Air Force stock 9 June 2016 14: 02
      +1
      Quote: Al1977
      Tell us, where would you, as the Director of the Airline, deliver this aircraft and ensure its loading?

      Flights to North America, South America, Asia, Cuba, South Africa. Aeroflot uses the A-330 for these purposes, the 777+ has ordered the A350. And we do not have a modern analogue.
      1. Al1977
        Al1977 10 June 2016 09: 33
        0
        Quote: Lt. Air Force stock
        Quote: Al1977
        Tell us, where would you, as the Director of the Airline, deliver this aircraft and ensure its loading?

        Flights to North America, South America, Asia, Cuba, South Africa. Aeroflot uses the A-330 for these purposes, the 777+ has ordered the A350. And we do not have a modern analogue.

        Quote: Lt. Air Force stock
        Quote: Al1977
        Tell us, where would you, as the Director of the Airline, deliver this aircraft and ensure its loading?

        Flights to North America, South America, Asia, Cuba, South Africa. Aeroflot uses the A-330 for these purposes, the 777+ has ordered the A350. And we do not have a modern analogue.

        I’m not talking about which countries are far from us, but about the fact that loading in those directions is not such as to spend billions on a new plane. How many Aeroflot will buy planes for flights to the USA? 2-3-4? Or 200 pcs?
        All the same, I repeat the question, is there a demand for long-distance flights ????
        Many Russians fly to the USA, or Singapore, or Tokyo?
        1. Alex_Tug
          Alex_Tug 10 June 2016 10: 18
          0
          The states are always full load. In principle, Singapore, Tokyo and the states would fly people, there would be money and visa availability. But the tourist routes to Vietnam or Thailand are always in demand. And now they fly to Moscow from Vladivostok via China (by Chinese airlines). So cheaper.
  • Al1977
    Al1977 9 June 2016 11: 14
    -2
    Quote: Dormidont2
    ado was with ms 21 to develop a long-range aircraft,

    Is this for those who will fly over the "Far Eastern hectare"?
    The largest share of traffic is 1000-3000 km. with loading of 100-150 passengers.
    Aeroflot refuses 777, Transaerov 747 returns, now our people do not fly to the Dominican Republic and Mexico, and will not fly soon. But in Vladik and back, it’s not the biggest load, and a few 767 can quite cope with this.
  • xetai9977
    xetai9977 8 June 2016 17: 47
    +3
    Today our sites have published - "The Russian leasing company Ilyushin Finance" plans today to conclude an agreement of intent for the supply of MC-21 aircraft with the national air carrier of Azerbaijan AZAL (Azerbaijan Airlines), a source in the air circles told TASS on the sidelines of the presentation of the MC-21 aircraft. 10. Day.Az reports with reference to Trend that the contract will be signed for the supply of XNUMX aircraft, he did not specify the delivery dates.

    The intention to sign a contract with AZAL today was confirmed to journalists by the general director of Ilyushin Finance Co. (IFC) Alexander Rubtsov. He specified that it would be an agreement of intent, but he did not comment on the volume of supplies. "
  • valerei
    valerei 11 June 2016 12: 50
    0
    Well, in Soviet times, passengers always followed the military, so the tradition remains. One thing is a pity that our famous names are not used: TU, YAK, AN, IL, etc. What is MS-21? He says nothing to anyone, especially all sorts of "superjets". So: As you name the ship - so it will fly, in the sense of the world.
  • Stirbjorn
    Stirbjorn 8 June 2016 13: 27
    +4
    Quote: CORNET
    I hope rockets can be suspended from him ....?
    Is it really MIKHAN ?! fellow laughing
  • Mikelanjelo
    Mikelanjelo 8 June 2016 13: 51
    +13
    To such aircraft, only the great Ukrainians thought of hanging rockets
    1. Lt. Air Force stock
      Lt. Air Force stock 8 June 2016 16: 48
      +8
      Quote: Mikelanjelo
      To such aircraft, only the great Ukrainians thought of hanging rockets

      Not only USA Harpoons hang on P-8
      1. Dormidont2
        Dormidont2 8 June 2016 17: 15
        +2
        on ms21 we hang x101 wink
      2. Muvka
        Muvka 8 June 2016 20: 58
        0
        Quote: Lt. Air Force stock
        Quote: Mikelanjelo
        To such aircraft, only the great Ukrainians thought of hanging rockets

        Not only USA Harpoons hang on P-8

        This is not like a passenger? Or am I confusing something? It’s just that Il-76 can also bomb us.
        1. Lt. Air Force stock
          Lt. Air Force stock 8 June 2016 21: 28
          +2
          Quote: Muvka
          This is not like a passenger? Or am I confusing something? It’s just that Il-76 can also bomb us.

          R-8 is based on the Boeing 737.
          1. Muvka
            Muvka 9 June 2016 08: 54
            0
            Quote: Lt. Air Force stock
            Quote: Muvka
            This is not like a passenger? Or am I confusing something? It’s just that Il-76 can also bomb us.

            R-8 is based on the Boeing 737.

            But this is not a Boeing 737, right? You are comparing a military plane to a civilian one and you want it to drop bombs. And I gave you a similar example. That's all.
    2. Dormidont2
      Dormidont2 8 June 2016 17: 17
      -2
      Americans in the fuselage of Kyrgyz transport workers carry
    3. Skifotavr
      Skifotavr 8 June 2016 20: 22
      +2
      Quote: Mikelanjelo
      To such aircraft, only the great Ukrainians thought of hanging rockets

      Stop already Antonov KB with ukrami mix. This is a very serious design bureau. And when trolls who are not versed in aviation write any diarrhea nonsense about him, they only show that they are no different from galloping ukroheroev-maydauns. In advance I will say that I will not enter into a polemic with you about what a cool Superjet-100 is and how wretchedly everything is "hokhol", because it makes no sense.
      1. user
        user 8 June 2016 20: 51
        +6
        Finish already Antonov Design Bureau with ukrami mix. This is a very serious KB. And when all the diarrheal trolls write about him about diarrhea nonsense, they only show that they are no different from the jumping ukroheroev-maydaunov.


        Well, if you have been on the site for a long time, you could have repeatedly been convinced that Antonov’s design bureau doesn’t mix anything with anyone and they take it seriously. Well, if someone was laughing at great ukrov, it happens, there’s just a lot of reason for this lately. Although the immediate prospects for KB (personally for me) are depressing, plus the loss of a partner in the face of the Russian Federation in the competition with Boing and Airbas. And what is the loss of the Russian market?
        As for the MC-21, our country tried to the end to maintain cooperation with Antonov Design Bureau and only after a number of failed projects did they start to do their projects (the next is the Il-114 or a similar project), which is not economically profitable (taking into account previously invested funds) and the most The main thing is time, as the fleet is aging rapidly.
        1. Skifotavr
          Skifotavr 8 June 2016 22: 20
          +4
          Quote: user
          Well, if you have been on the site for a long time, you could have repeatedly been convinced that Antonov’s design bureau doesn’t mix anything with anyone and they take it seriously. Well, if someone was laughing at great ukrov, it happens, there’s just a lot of reason for this lately. Although the immediate prospects for KB (personally for me) are depressing, plus the loss of a partner in the face of the Russian Federation in the competition with Boing and Airbas. And what is the loss of the Russian market?
          As for the MC-21, our country tried to the end to maintain cooperation with Antonov Design Bureau and only after a number of failed projects did they start to do their projects (the next is the Il-114 or a similar project), which is not economically profitable (taking into account previously invested funds) and the most The main thing is time, as the fleet is aging rapidly.

          I agree with you on everything. I am not against rudeness against ukrov. It's just that Antonov’s design bureau has nothing to do with it, although he really has no future in an independent one. I am very sorry that it was created in Ukraine, and not in Russia. But here’s the paradox: Antonov’s design bureau is in better condition today than most Russian aviation design bureaus. The thing is that in Russia they were deliberately destroyed by burry liberals, and the ukrovlast authorities simply did not pay any attention to the Ukrainian bureau, which was no longer Russian, which meant it was not so important to destroy it.
  • oborzevatel
    oborzevatel 8 June 2016 14: 14
    +9
    Quote: CORNET
    I hope rockets can be suspended from him ....?

    I would advise where exactly You missiles story, my dear, but do not appreciate sarcasm ...
    1. The comment was deleted.
  • Appraiser
    Appraiser 8 June 2016 16: 34
    +2
    If necessary, you can hang anything, and not just rockets. The main thing is that they start production. It is necessary to create competition for foreign companies in the domestic air transportation market soldier
    1. Marsblade
      Marsblade 8 June 2016 19: 01
      +1
      It’s necessary not only to compete, it is always necessary to set super tasks - it is necessary to force them out of the market at war ...
      1. Bayonet
        Bayonet 9 June 2016 06: 02
        0
        Quote: MarsBlade
        It’s necessary not only to compete, it is always necessary to set super tasks - it is necessary to force them out of the market at war ...

        The car has never flown before, and the engines on what the American rolled out. By 2020, they plan to enter the production of 40 pieces per year. That's it - competitors are gone.
        We will see ...
        1. sa-ag
          sa-ag 9 June 2016 07: 24
          +1
          Quote: Bayonet
          engines on what the American rolled out

          and whose avionics is there?
  • Bykov.
    Bykov. 8 June 2016 20: 14
    0
    Quote: CORNET
    I hope rockets can be suspended from him ....?

    After all, it’s clear that the man joked for joy, and you came across a bunch of dislikes to him. Oh, you evil.
  • Spartanez300
    Spartanez300 8 June 2016 12: 51
    0
    Judging by the outlines, it was the MS-21 has not yet been painted and it flew a little winding circles over the city, what kind of a plane it could be if not the MS-21 we are collecting other airliners.
    1. Lt. Air Force stock
      Lt. Air Force stock 8 June 2016 12: 55
      +5
      Climbed the entire network, and did not find fuel efficiency data in comparison with the A320NEO and Boeing 737MAX ...
      1. Stas157
        Stas157 8 June 2016 13: 47
        +7
        Quote: Lt. air force reserve
        Climbed the entire network, and did not find fuel efficiency data in comparison with the A320NEO and Boeing 737MAX ...

        The flight range with maximum load, with all comparable characteristics, the A320NEO is 500 km higher, and the Boeing 737MAKS is 650 km higher, which suggests that competitors are more economical. I would be glad to make a mistake, if that, correct. By the way, the Chinese C919 has a range of 500 km lower than ours! But then the plane is from a past generation.
        Again, like the superjet, the MS-21-300 does not have winglets that reduce consumption, although they finally promised to put them on the superjet due to the demand of the European buyer City Jet.
        1. Arikkhab
          Arikkhab 8 June 2016 14: 28
          +2
          and winglets (by themselves) increase the range by 500 km, all other things being equal?
          1. Stas157
            Stas157 8 June 2016 14: 42
            +6
            Quote: ArikKhab
            and winglets (by themselves) increase the range by 500 km, all other things being equal?

            Do not be so straightforward! Range depends on many parameters. Neither winglets nor the new LEAP-919C engine help the Chinese S-1!
            Winglets are considered as a way to reduce the inductive resistance of the wing. Accordingly, they affect profitability. Range and efficiency are related concepts, a more economical aircraft can, with the same characteristics, fly further away.
            1. Arikkhab
              Arikkhab 8 June 2016 19: 36
              +2
              I'm not straightforward at all. why do I need winglets. as well as the fact that they themselves improve fuel consumption at best by 5-7 percent (the use of winglets in the modernization of the Gulfstream II business aircraft in 1991 allowed to reduce fuel consumption by 7% according to the manufacturer - and this is a good result) which (understandably) does not automatically lead to an increase in range by the same 5%, that is, getting an increase of 500 km on a medium-haul airliner (with the same take-off weight, engines and wing profile) is very cool. another question is that during modernization, aircraft receive a new wing (with winglets) and other engines ...
              1. Stas157
                Stas157 8 June 2016 20: 47
                +2
                Quote: ArikKhab
                I'm not straightforward at all. why do I need winglets.

                If you know, why ask? You decided to test me for knowledge? If you know more, you'd better just express your point of view.
        2. Lt. Air Force stock
          Lt. Air Force stock 8 June 2016 17: 00
          +2
          Quote: Stas157
          By the way, the Chinese C919 has a range of 500 km lower than ours! But then the plane is from a past generation.

          It seems to me that the Chinese are primarily producing for their market, they need more than 1000 aircraft for such an aircraft, and they are building for themselves. All the same, we sell for export, but I didn’t hear something to sell for export.
          By the way, there are already 919 orders on the C517.
        3. Muvka
          Muvka 8 June 2016 21: 02
          +1
          Quote: Stas157
          Quote: Lt. air force reserve
          Climbed the entire network, and did not find fuel efficiency data in comparison with the A320NEO and Boeing 737MAX ...

          The flight range with maximum load, with all comparable characteristics, the A320NEO is 500 km higher, and the Boeing 737MAKS is 650 km higher, which suggests that competitors are more economical. I would be glad to make a mistake, if that, correct. By the way, the Chinese C919 has a range of 500 km lower than ours! But then the plane is from a past generation.
          Again, like the superjet, the MS-21-300 does not have winglets that reduce consumption, although they finally promised to put them on the superjet due to the demand of the European buyer City Jet.

          So, for the sake of interest, are you aware that the weight of fuel in the airbus is 26730 kg, and in the MC-21 - 20400?
          1. Stas157
            Stas157 8 June 2016 21: 39
            +2
            Quote: Muvka
            So, for the sake of interest, are you aware that the weight of fuel in the airbus is 26730 kg, and in the MC-21 - 20400?

            If there is more fuel in the airbus, it means it is lighter than the MS-21, and the MS-21 turns out to be overweight, though it's hard to imagine, but let's see the numbers:
            The maximum take-off on the MS-21 is 79,25 tons, and the A320 NEO is 79 tons, while the airbus takes, according to your words, 6 tons more fuel! Like it or not, but the airbus is more economical. But, I would like a refutation!
            1. Muvka
              Muvka 8 June 2016 21: 53
              +1
              Quote: Stas157
              Quote: Muvka
              So, for the sake of interest, are you aware that the weight of fuel in the airbus is 26730 kg, and in the MC-21 - 20400?

              If there is more fuel in the airbus, it means it is lighter than the MS-21, and the MS-21 turns out to be overweight, though it's hard to imagine, but let's see the numbers:
              The maximum take-off on the MS-21 is 79,25 tons, and the A320 NEO is 79 tons, while the airbus takes, according to your words, 6 tons more fuel! Like it or not, but the airbus is more economical. But, I would like a refutation!

              In addition to the mass of fuel, the mass of the aircraft and passengers, there is also the concept of baggage. At MS-21, it is 22,6 tons, if I understand correctly. Is there any bass data? It should also be borne in mind that the MS has the widest fuselage in the class, which is reflected in the weight of the aircraft and the convenience of passengers (more space). I was wrong about the fuel. In the MC-21 it turns out about 25000 liters, and in the airbase it is 26730. I didn’t notice that in one place there are kg, in another liter) So it’s about the same. On the other hand, the table may show the parameters with American engines, and not with PD-14. For until relatively recently, nothing was heard about it ... And you also need to consider that the maximum weight of the MS refers to the capacity of 211 passengers, and the airbus to 189, which makes a difference of 1,5 tons somewhere. I just don’t know what average weight is taken there)
        4. viktorrymar
          viktorrymar 10 June 2016 10: 39
          0
          Quote: Stas157
          Again, like the superjet, the MS-21-300 does not have winglets that reduce consumption, although they finally promised to put them on the superjet due to the demand of the European buyer City Jet.


          City Jet has already received the first with SSj100 without winglets and put into operation.

          http://sdelanounas.ru/blogs/78809/
          1. Alex_Tug
            Alex_Tug 10 June 2016 10: 59
            0
            Funny you guys.
            Put winglets on a superjet:
            1) buy a license for winglets
            2) recycle the wing
            3) alterations in software
            4) test redone software
            5) get a European Commission certificate (like a new plane)
            Total work of the year by 3.
      2. Muvka
        Muvka 8 June 2016 21: 04
        0
        Quote: Lt. Air Force stock
        Climbed the entire network, and did not find fuel efficiency data in comparison with the A320NEO and Boeing 737MAX ...

        Compare maximum fuel weight and range. MS-21 - 20400 at 6000 km, for the A320NEO - 26730 at 6500 km. Satisfied with such efficiency?
        1. Alex_Tug
          Alex_Tug 10 June 2016 12: 03
          0
          You have a conversation about nothing. The flight range depends on the flight mode (LRC, Max end, Max spd, Manual) and the quality of the aircraft software. The range is considered by computers based on the number of fuel and flight mode. 6000 or 6500 is the result of the operation of on-board computers, and not the declared characteristics on paper. Moreover, there is no data on software for the MS-21.
    2. Alex_59
      Alex_59 8 June 2016 12: 58
      +2
      Quote: Spartanez300
      he flew a little winding circles over the city

      Moreover, not him. So that on the first assembled car in the first flight, but over the city it is "too low" to wind circles ...
      1. The comment was deleted.
    3. Muvka
      Muvka 8 June 2016 13: 00
      +1
      Quote: Spartanez300
      Judging by the outlines, it was the MS-21 has not yet been painted and it flew a little winding circles over the city, what kind of a plane it could be if not the MS-21 we are collecting other airliners.

      At a minimum, besides you, there was another person on another forum who said that he had seen this plane winding circles. Well, if that is so - that's great! Here's a quote: Like a shovel, the plane took off, and more than once, circled for at least a couple of weeks over Irkutsk land, I live near the test routes of the aircraft factory, so uh, you are respected, categorically and evil! umnik.gif
      1. kostella85
        kostella85 8 June 2016 13: 21
        +1
        This is a computer presentation watched)
    4. Dormidont2
      Dormidont2 8 June 2016 17: 22
      0
      in Irkutsk? next time, take it off at least on the phone, it will be interesting for everyone to see if the plane is handsome, though the designer needs to tear his hands off because the tail-wing is painted with blue paint, it seems that without the tail the plane seems to be again intriguing liberoids
    5. Bayonet
      Bayonet 9 June 2016 06: 22
      0
      Quote: Spartanez300
      Judging by the outlines, it was the MS-21 has not yet been painted and it flew a little winding circles over the city, what kind of a plane it could be if not the MS-21 we are collecting other airliners.

      Yesterday, 05:43. The first flight of the Russian aircraft MS-21 is scheduled for the end of 2016. The first flight of the short-medium-range passenger aircraft MS-21 will take place between December 2016 and February 2017. hi
  • avt
    avt 8 June 2016 13: 01
    +1
    Quote: Muvka
    The first flight only at the end of this year.

    request Competitors ARE already in the air, late. Well, again, solemn chants to capture as much as 10% of the market request
    Quote: SSI
    And the motors, I see, General Electric?

    Well, this is normal, especially with the prospect of a foreign market, this is not the time of the USSR, today it’s not enough to go out on its own. So
    Quote: i80186
    the presence of two alternative power plants - with Russian engines PD-14 or American Pratt & Whitney PW1400G.
    in this particular case, it’s a plus.
    1. Lt. Air Force stock
      Lt. Air Force stock 8 June 2016 13: 04
      0
      Quote: avt
      Well, this is normal, especially with the prospect of a foreign market, this is not the time of the USSR, today it’s not enough to go out on its own. So

      By the way, the Chinese will also install imported engines on their Comac S919, most likely they will buy a license and establish a full production cycle in China.
    2. Muvka
      Muvka 8 June 2016 13: 05
      0
      2 months is a long time? And the Chinese did not fly at all.
    3. saturn.mmm
      saturn.mmm 8 June 2016 15: 00
      +1
      Quote: avt
      Well, again, solemn chants to capture as much as 10% of the market

      With such a presentation, you can lose the market altogether, I won’t think of writing the entire MS-21 fuselage in big letters (see for the visually impaired), and even paint the tail in blue and present it in blue, it seemed that the plane had no tail, the presentation began it was wonderful with the cartoon, and here once they all worked it out.
    4. Revolver
      Revolver 8 June 2016 16: 32
      0
      Let it fly for at least five years without crashes for technical reasons, then I will agree to fly this. Until then - "If it ain't Boeing, I ain't going".
      1. Dormidont2
        Dormidont2 8 June 2016 17: 24
        0
        so Boeings fall the most, though often because of pilots
        1. Idiot
          Idiot 9 June 2016 10: 58
          +1
          Quote: Dormidont2
          so Boeings fall the most, though often because of pilots


          This is Boeing's version for the Third World electorate.
        2. The comment was deleted.
    5. sa-ag
      sa-ag 9 June 2016 07: 32
      0
      Quote: avt
      Well this is normal, especially with the prospect of a foreign market

      In the EU they will not let a competitor in the USA either, in Brazil there is an Embraer, in China there are people of their own, who should they sell to? Latin America, Southeast Asia? With a Superjet, it’s like once Mexico was sold
      1. The comment was deleted.
      2. Idiot
        Idiot 9 June 2016 11: 22
        +2
        Quote: sa-ag
        In the EU they will not let a competitor in the USA either, in Brazil there is an Embraer, in China there are people of their own, who should they sell to? Latin America, Southeast Asia? With a Superjet, it’s like once Mexico was sold


        Or maybe it would be advisable to push Boeing and Airbus out of your market this way? Maybe the opinion of graduates of the Higher School of Economics, working in the government of the Russian Federation, mistakenly (to put it mildly) and the state’s monopolization of the domestic air transportation market will add to us both sovereignty and strengthening the industry as a whole? Oh! I forgot that we need a currency to print rubles! The US branch in the Russian Federation (Sberbank and the economic block of the Government of the Russian Federation) against. Take an example from China. They’re on the drum that the C919 is uncompetitive. Today it is, and tomorrow it will be pulled up to the best world models. But the domestic market has been and will remain with national carriers. As in the USSR it was. By the way, the state monopoly on air transportation inevitably increases the level of flight safety ... And we also need to introduce a state monopoly on the production and sale of hard alcohol!
        1. sa-ag
          sa-ag 9 June 2016 16: 59
          +1
          Quote: pft, fkb
          As in the USSR

          Oh, there were so many flights to the USSR, this provided loading
  • Grandson of Veteran
    Grandson of Veteran 8 June 2016 12: 54
    +5
    Beautiful plane. The market for mid-ranks in our country is very large. It will be great if the characteristics do not yield to Boeing and Airbus. Let Sberbank and others like it not finance foreign projects, and leasing under MC-21 provide and stimulate demand from domestic air carriers.
    1. avt
      avt 8 June 2016 15: 01
      +2
      Quote: Veteran's grandson
      The medium-haul market in our country is very large.

      The GSS with the Superbudget was horrible - the Red Wings merged their own and UTair merged their Superbudgets into Yakutia and are waiting for the MC-21.
      Quote: Veteran's grandson
      Let Sberbank and its ilk not finance foreign projects, but leasing under MS-21 provide and stimulate demand from domestic carriers.

      Ilyushin finance is already working with AZAL, while a memorandum of interest was signed at the rollout.
  • fox21h
    fox21h 8 June 2016 12: 58
    +6
    I am happy for our aircraft industry, but I would like to know what localization he has?
    And then, if like a superjet, then sadness is sadness ...
    1. Muvka
      Muvka 8 June 2016 13: 07
      +8
      Quote: fox21h
      I am happy for our aircraft industry, but I would like to know what localization he has?
      And then, if like a superjet, then sadness is sadness ...

      80 promise. This is with our engines. And you find out the localization of the Boeing. Be pleasantly surprised;)
  • Denis Obukhov
    Denis Obukhov 8 June 2016 13: 15
    0
    It’s just fine, I think. Orders are already on 175 boards.
  • Denis Obukhov
    Denis Obukhov 8 June 2016 13: 35
    +5
    The first Boeing 787 Dreamliner was shown at a presentation at a factory in Everett, Washington on July 8, 2007. After a series of deferrals, the Boeing 787 first took off on December 15, 2009. October 26, 2011 the liner made its first commercial flight. And none of the Americans hysteria on these occasions.
  • REDBLUE
    REDBLUE 8 June 2016 13: 37
    .
    New anthem of Russia:
    Union indestructible Volodya and Dima
    Great Russia rallied forever ...
  • Finches
    Finches 8 June 2016 13: 56
    +9
    We need to supplant the Airbases and Boeings on our open spaces and enter the world market! Medvedev is right, but much remains to be done before being consolidated in the Premier League! In general, I am proud of my country, no matter what - builds factories, spaceports, airplanes .... but what Lithuanian, Estonian, Ukrainian, Moldovan, Georgian is proud of
    ....!?
    That's why shit ... but they pour envy that fell under the Yankees, and they just raped them and that's it! They didn’t even pay ... laughing
  • firefighter
    firefighter 8 June 2016 15: 27
    0
    Quote: Spartanez300
    Mr. Medvedev was also present with his retinue.

    He apparently promised an iPhone. And the retinue ... where can you get from her ...
  • siberalt
    siberalt 8 June 2016 18: 44
    +1
    MS 21 will replace TU-154 and TU-204. Now you can fly from Vladik to Moscow with one intermediate landing instead of two. He has an interesting fuselage shape from the bottom.
  • The comment was deleted.
  • The comment was deleted.
  • KnightRider
    KnightRider 8 June 2016 20: 03
    0
    Quote: Spartanez300
    Our factory will certainly not remain without work, by the way, recently I saw the MS-21 already circled in the sky. Today at the presentation there were 800 people, including 300 foreigners. Mr. Medvedev was also present with his retinue.

    Excellent presentation, by the way! good
    1. KnightRider
      KnightRider 8 June 2016 20: 09
      0
      For comparison, how it happened with our neighbors. I must say right away that I was not going to offend either the glorious name of "Antonov" or ordinary workers. The presentation of the new aircraft is also part of a political show. That's about him in Ukraine and speech smile
      1. APASUS
        APASUS 8 June 2016 21: 55
        +10
        Damn the guys, I read and wonder how half of the naive are there.
        This is a test model and the possibly shown MC-21 will have nothing to do with the intended aircraft at all.
        I was amazed that they showed me through the box, now the fuselage is being assembled for testing under load, then I don’t understand what it was rolled out to the presentation, since the fuselage did not pass one of the main stages of testing, despite the fact that this is almost only the beginning of the tests. stress tests can make many design changes.
        The release was announced for 2017, how is it? Yes, they will only certify it for a couple of years, and the test under load lasts up to a year. If my memory serves me, the SuperJet-100 has been spinning for 9 months.
        So all these victorious speeches are more likely an advertising move, no more. Before a real airplane oh how far
      2. The comment was deleted.
  • 73bor
    73bor 9 June 2016 01: 07
    +1
    Finally, and then for the first time I saw the MC-21 in the picture in Krasnaya Zvezda in 1998, but here it was like alive!
  • Olena
    Olena 9 June 2016 05: 27
    +4
    - Personally, I didn’t understand anything ... - The dummy of an airplane is demonstrated in a tormented manner ... -And why didn’t the flights of this airplane show in the air ..? -Something looks rather strange ... -And then ... -or it seemed to me, but it was announced that the engines of this aircraft will be American and avionics will also be imported ...
    -Somehow all this does not have to complete joy ...
    -Mrs. Site experts, please be so kind as to give details about this aircraft .. as much as possible ...
    1. Bayonet
      Bayonet 9 June 2016 06: 42
      0
      Quote: olena
      -And why did not show the flights of this aircraft in the air ..?

      Quote: olena
      -And why did not show the flights of this aircraft in the air ..?

      Because he has never taken off! hi
  • qwert
    qwert 9 June 2016 07: 40
    +3
    Than tryndet about possible commercial demand would be better informed about what engines are and how many components of domestic production on the plane. And then to help sell the products of Collins, Pratt & Whitney, Dupont, Mischallin and others is, excuse me, not a reason for pride
  • Mih
    Mih 9 June 2016 22: 25
    0
    Well, God help you. Glad for you. love
  • Alexander Romanov
    Alexander Romanov 8 June 2016 12: 44
    .
    Here, another victory of the Communist Party, only thanks to Zyuganov we got a new plane.
    1. CORNET
      CORNET 8 June 2016 12: 55
      .
      Quote: Alexander Romanov
      Here, another victory of the Communist Party, only thanks to Zyuganov we got a new plane.

      No, this is "United Russia"! laughing What do you have with the planes for the showdown ...? I will not sit on this ....
      1. Alexander Romanov
        Alexander Romanov 8 June 2016 12: 59
        +3
        Quote: CORNET
        No, this is "United Russia"

        Come on, EP can only steal. All the achievements in the country, only thanks to the Communist Party.
        Quote: CORNET
        I will not sit on this ....

        Fly on a used Boeing - enjoyable flight lol
        1. Alex_59
          Alex_59 8 June 2016 13: 14
          +12
          Quote: Alexander Romanov
          Fly on a used Boeing - enjoyable flight

          Oh ... If it were second-hand ... It could be justified by our poverty. But no, Aeroflot, S7 and other major players have long bought the latest Watermelons. Take an interest in the average age of the sides of these airlines - there from 5 to 10 years, everything was purchased from the assembly line, not used.
          1. Alexander Romanov
            Alexander Romanov 8 June 2016 13: 21
            +3
            Quote: Alex_59
            , Aeroflot, S7 and other major players have long bought the latest Watermelons

            Well, if new, it wasn’t ours. After the devastation of the 90s, I wonder how they were able to restore production at all.
            1. Alex_59
              Alex_59 8 June 2016 13: 31
              +19
              Quote: Alexander Romanov
              Well, if new, it wasn’t ours.

              Tu-204 was not? IL-96 was not? Everything was. There was no desire from the state to give the bream to the aircraft manufacturers to establish normal service and marketing, and to the air carriers to start buying their own, and not imported. Yakovlev, Sukhoi and Irkut thank God themselves moved, but the leadership of Tupolev, Ilyushin, as well as VASO, KAPO and others, clearly needed to be kicked.
              1. Arikkhab
                Arikkhab 8 June 2016 14: 37
                +2
                and the problems of "Tupolev, Ilyushin, as well as VASO, KAPO and others" by chance UAC (Sukhoi, Pogosyan ...) did not have a hand?
                and so - there was a FLYING Tu-334 plane, but no, the aforementioned ones began to implement the American model of sawing - they organized the SSJ-100 project and rushed. the same with engines - instead of a joint venture with the French on the SaM-146 engine, they would have invested the same funds in Perm Motors, so long ago PD-14 would have been in the series ... but no, it didn’t fuse
                1. nov_tech.vrn
                  nov_tech.vrn 8 June 2016 20: 47
                  0
                  and I remember how Poghosyan, with money allocated by the government to VASO, which VASO gave 7-9 percent, threw it in his favor, and missed it with a takin bonus, this must be understood, there was help
                2. user1212
                  user1212 9 June 2016 03: 12
                  0
                  Quote: ArikKhab
                  and so - there was a FLYING Tu-334 plane

                  Controversial statement. Just look at the type certificate (http://aviadocs.net/MAK/AC/Tu-334-100/NCT231_Tu_334_100.pdf)
                  1. Alex_Tug
                    Alex_Tug 10 June 2016 12: 30
                    0
                    the paper is rather weak in comparison ...
                    1. user1212
                      user1212 15 June 2016 05: 15
                      0
                      But nothing that one MAKovsky, and the second European? Tu334 EASA did not receive at all
                3. Idiot
                  Idiot 9 June 2016 12: 10
                  0
                  Quote: ArikKhab
                  and the problems of "Tupolev, Ilyushin, as well as VASO, KAPO and others" by chance UAC (Sukhoi, Pogosyan ...) did not have a hand?


                  I absolutely agree about Poghosyan. The same figure Solomonenko (MIT) with his "Bulava" will not be remembered by nightfall. In the USSR, from time immemorial, weapons for SSBNs were made by the Makeyevites. It is logical that the development of a new solid-propellant rocket should be entrusted to Miass, as a specialized enterprise, since MIT has always made solid-propellant mobile complexes. The result, as we can see, is on the face ...
              2. RedBaron
                RedBaron 8 June 2016 15: 11
                -8
                Quote: Alex_59

                Tu-204 was not? IL-96 was not? Everything was. There was no desire from the state to give the bream to the aircraft manufacturers to establish normal service and marketing, and to the air carriers to start buying their own, and not imported. Yakovlev, Sukhoi and Irkut thank God themselves moved, but the leadership of Tupolev, Ilyushin, as well as VASO, KAPO and others, clearly needed to be kicked.

                They do not meet the standards, neither in the USA nor in Europe they would not be allowed
                1. Alex_59
                  Alex_59 8 June 2016 21: 05
                  +6
                  Quote: RedBaron
                  They do not meet the standards, neither in the USA nor in Europe they would not be allowed

                  In the USA and Europe, only the Tu-204 and IL-96 fly from ours. SU-315 - did you know such a flight? Hardly know. Moscow - New York, Aeroflot, IL-96.

                  And here: http://russianplanes.net/id73524
                  Tu-Xnumx at Munich Airport. How did he get there, interesting? Do not let the same.
                  1. Alex_Tug
                    Alex_Tug 10 June 2016 12: 34
                    0
                    If TCAS is then let it go.
            2. Al1977
              Al1977 9 June 2016 11: 38
              0
              Quote: Alexander Romanov
              if it’s new, it’s not its own. After the devastation of 90 x, I wonder how they were able to restore production at all.

              90 years have passed since the 25s, partly at the highest oil prices.
              The number of billionaires during this time has increased many times ...
              Indeed .. how could we do something .. just a feat, a breakthrough, of which world history has not seen ...
              During this time, China has become the second economy in the world. Korea has become a leading industrial country, and the world of information technology has changed beyond recognition ... And we ... have restored the production of aircraft ..
              1. KaPToC
                KaPToC 9 June 2016 16: 05
                0
                Where is Korea a leading industrial country?
              2. Dry_T-50
                Dry_T-50 13 June 2016 14: 31
                0
                Quote: Al1977
                Quote: Alexander Romanov
                if it’s new, it’s not its own. After the devastation of 90 x, I wonder how they were able to restore production at all.

                90x passed 25 years, part at the highest oil prices.
                The number of billionaires during this time has increased many times ...
                Indeed .. how could we do something .. just a feat, a breakthrough, of which world history has not seen ...
                During this time, China has become the second economy in the world. Korea has become a leading industrial country, and the world of information technology has changed beyond recognition ... And we ... have restored the production of aircraft ..

                15 ... With a break from 2007 to 2011.
          2. Bayonet
            Bayonet 9 June 2016 06: 44
            0
            Quote: Alex_59
            Aeroflot, S7 and other major players have long bought the latest Watermelons.

            Until they do the MC-21, they will be old. smile
      2. kepmor
        kepmor 8 June 2016 13: 22
        +23
        After all, we live in a "cool" country ...
        Well, where else, if not in Russia, you can see in the forefront at the presentation of the new aircraft "the main gravediggers" of the domestic aviation industry - Medvedev, Dvorkovich and Manturov ?!
        It would be more correct to have Putin instead of Dimon, BUT ... apparently EP’s affairs are so bad before the elections that GDP once again played on their side.
        1. Alex_59
          Alex_59 8 June 2016 13: 33
          +8
          Quote: kepmor
          After all, we live in a "cool" country ...
          Well, where else, if not in Russia, you can see in the forefront at the presentation of the new aircraft "the main gravediggers" of the domestic aviation industry - Medvedev, Dvorkovich and Manturov ?!

          Plus 500 !!! When I watched on TV, such words fell out of my mouth, I was really ashamed ...
        2. siberalt
          siberalt 8 June 2016 18: 50
          +1
          Medvedev is already in Novosibirsk. Encourages students to vote for "ER".
          1. PHANTOM-AS
            PHANTOM-AS 8 June 2016 19: 10
            0
            Quote: siberalt
            Medvedev is already in Novosibirsk. Encourages students to vote for "ER".

            our ranger ripened everywhere, it’s only strange why his students didn’t throw ayts with it. request
      3. firefighter
        firefighter 8 June 2016 15: 45
        +3
        Zya, my friend, zya! There is so much strength there that Boeings are resting. Support our aviation industry! Personally, I am only FOR. Our planes are the best - they are capable of anything. Remember Tu-114 (95), Tu-104 (16), etc. wink smile fellow
    2. Mikado
      Mikado 8 June 2016 12: 57
      +19
      Alexander, it seems to me, United Russia will win anyway, no matter what we think, and no matter how we vote. And then the Communist Party? We all perfectly understand that not one of the parties (not one!) Did anything for the country if there was no sign from above. The anti-corruption law was never adopted. Deputies sit, earn money and other benefits. Other people do big things for the country - builders, landowners, engineers, military and other honest people .. And, probably, these people do not think about their political preferences. Respectfully, hi
      1. Alexander Romanov
        Alexander Romanov 8 June 2016 13: 01
        +4
        Quote: Mikado
        And then the Communist Party?

        What do you mean? There, the communists write that all the achievements in the country are thanks to the Communist Party.
        Quote: Mikado
        We all perfectly understand that not one of the parties (not one!) Did anything for the country if there was no sign from above.

        First sober and very objective look, you +
        1. Mikado
          Mikado 8 June 2016 13: 17
          +4
          Quote: Alexander Romanov
          First sober and very objective look, you +

          You too)) Alexander, it seems to me that there is love here not for the Communist Party, but for communism as an abstraction. Under the communists, we were proud of our country. And the so-called. "democracy" with the plundering of everything and everything we have already gorged on. And, as you rightly said, you don't want to fly on used Boeings. We need our planes. With our motors, with our electronics. With a full production cycle at US. We want a strong country and justice (it seems to me that the concept of "justice" is key in the worldview of a Russian person). So that factories are not plundered and bankrupt, so that thieves do not evade responsibility. And we get, as Roman wrote yesterday about space - a bunch of "managers" with a non-core education takes profit, and a half pensioners work at the plant for food!
          1. Alexander Romanov
            Alexander Romanov 8 June 2016 13: 25
            +3
            Quote: Mikado
            Under the Communists, we were proud of our country.

            And now there’s nothing to be proud of?
            Quote: Mikado
            "democracy" with the plundering of everything and everything we have already gorged on.

            Democracy is a thing of the past in Russia.
            Quote: Mikado
            With a full production cycle at US

            It is very difficult.
            Quote: Mikado
            And we get, as Roman wrote yesterday about space - a bunch of "managers" with a non-core education takes profits, and at the plant one and a half pensioners work for food!

            Space is a very slippery topic, anyone can write about it, since the topic is very closed, and there are no experts on the topic hi
            1. Mikado
              Mikado 8 June 2016 14: 11
              +6
              [quote = Alexander Romanov] And now there’s nothing to be proud of? [quote = Mikado]
              Space is a very slippery topic, anyone can write about it, since the topic is very closed, and there are no experts on the topic hi[/ Quote]
              About production: difficult - not difficult, but the USSR and China, it seems, did it.
              Not only space. They themselves have heard from the workers of one of the St. Petersburg factories about the separation of salaries of office workers and hard workers in the shops, as well as about corporate parties.
              There is certainly something to be proud of. But .. how many people in our country trust the same State Duma or ministers (except Shoigu)? It seems that in our country most politicians of high rank are associated with something not very good.
              Let us give a vivid example, which is not written about in VO: last week, the vice-governor of St. Petersburg proposed to name the bridge in my microdistrict the bridge of Akhmat Kadyrov. Street names in the area are associated with the names of the heroes of the Second World War. And Heroes Avenue will go from Kadyrov’s bridge. I even agree that this bridge should be named after Putin, but what is the relationship between Peter and the first president of Chechnya? WHOM (I'm talking about the vice-governor) need to be in order to persistently push this topic through the toponymic commission? A fool? Or ... (we’ll think up the rest ourselves). And absolutely to them ... on our opinion. Respectfully, hi
              1. ARES623
                ARES623 8 June 2016 15: 05
                0
                Quote: Mikado
                And absolutely to them ... on our opinion. Respectfully,

                An opinion, in order to be reckoned with, must not only be expressed in forums such as VO, but also by actions of a different order. The authors of the "color revolutions" have a whole arsenal of non-aggressive nonviolent actions to advance demands for leadership. It is possible to use them with us. Must to force hear them and listen to us.
                1. Mikado
                  Mikado 8 June 2016 15: 18
                  +3
                  Quote: ARES623
                  An opinion, in order to be reckoned with, must not only be expressed in forums such as VO, but also by actions of a different order. The authors of the "color revolutions" have a whole arsenal of non-aggressive nonviolent actions to advance demands for leadership. It is possible to use them with us. Must to force hear them and listen to us.

                  Ares, you're absolutely right. But there is a very thin line between protest and "color revolution". If you go out to protest against such idiocy yourself, half of the people themselves will then consider me a traitor, shout "orange" and all that. Moreover, such reasons for protests will be used by rogue protest conductors, liberals and other Carnival. Maybe there is an easier way out? Maybe the representatives of the authorities think with their heads in what they are doing and bear responsibility for it? And not to make deliberately idiotic decisions. You know, people with a conscience in ancient times, after a failed decision, under the weight of shame, settled scores with themselves, or at least resigned. And this - nothing at all ...
                  1. ARES623
                    ARES623 8 June 2016 15: 29
                    +1
                    Quote: Mikado
                    But there is a very thin line between protest and "color revolution". If you go out to protest against such idiocy yourself, half of the people themselves will then consider me a traitor, shout "orange" and all that.

                    I am not suggesting revolutions, I am suggesting using methods to achieve a productive result. The list contains them that are quite worthy for study and application for limited and positive purposes. Especially on the issue of the name of the bridge - I agree with St. Petersburg. St. Petersburg is so rich in heroic history that it is completely inappropriate to immortalize people there with "a very ambiguous reputation" who do not have a solid relationship with the city.
                    1. Mikado
                      Mikado 8 June 2016 15: 45
                      +1
                      Quote: ARES623
                      I do not propose revolutions; I propose using methods to achieve a productive result.

                      I deliberately did not speak about an ambiguous reputation, everyone understands everything anyway ..
                      About the methods - say the right thoughts, but .. hell knows how everything can turn around when applying these methods. Ukrainians, it seems, also "for justice" first rode on their Maidan, and we see how it ended. Our government should be responsible to the people. Representatives who do not want to carry it should be helped to realize this by control from above. This is not the case. I hope that someday the brains and hands will reach the Government. I do not absolve ourselves of responsibility, but, as you understand, the evolutionary path of legal development is preferable to "protests from below". Protests from below begin precisely when the government and the people live in different dimensions (for example, any historically documented revolution). hi
                      1. kotvov
                        kotvov 8 June 2016 18: 36
                        0
                        I hope that someday even before this the brains and hands will reach the Government. ,,
                        better BEFORE the government.
                      2. Mikado
                        Mikado 8 June 2016 18: 54
                        0
                        Quote: kotvov
                        I hope that someday even before this the brains and hands will reach the Government. ,,
                        better BEFORE the government.

                        That's for sure)) We are basically not used to expressing our protests publicly. Yes and no time - you need to work. But some jumps, such as the figure you mentioned and his madame, or something like that - spit on the people. And now there’s such a moment that people can’t give a damn about it, the enemies are not asleep. with respect, hi
                    2. ARES623
                      ARES623 9 June 2016 13: 11
                      0
                      Quote: Mikado
                      I do not absolve ourselves of responsibility, but, as you understand, the evolutionary path of legal development is preferable to "protests from below". Protests from below begin precisely when the government and the people live in different dimensions (for example, any historically documented revolution).

                      Well then, to the public reception room of "United Russia", the Liberal Democratic Party, a letter, better collective, to the presidential administration. They react quite briskly there. Checked.
                2. kotvov
                  kotvov 8 June 2016 18: 35
                  +1
                  drove scores with them, or at least resigned. And with this - nothing at all .. ,,
                  Well, it's you in vain. Serdyukov’s call, very much how much. In Rostekhkom diving, and does not dust recourse
                3. Bayonet
                  Bayonet 9 June 2016 06: 54
                  0
                  Quote: Mikado
                  But there is a very thin line between protest and "color revolution". If you go out to protest against such idiocy, half of the people themselves will then consider me a traitor, shout "orange" and all that

                  If in the same England, France, Italy and other Europe, people go to protest demonstrations or go on strike demanding higher wages or better anything, this in no way leads to "orange revolutions". Why should we necessarily have some kind of revolution? request
      2. samoletil18
        samoletil18 8 June 2016 13: 38
        0
        Quote: Alexander Romanov
        What do you mean? There, the communists write that all the achievements in the country are thanks to the Communist Party.

        Pancake! I took seriously about the Communist Party. I wanted to ask on the network what else was useful what Aging, on the go.
        It is a pity that the Tu-204 / -214 will bury this project.
        1. Alexander Romanov
          Alexander Romanov 8 June 2016 13: 45
          0
          Quote: samoletil18

          Pancake! I took seriously about the Communist Party. I wanted to ask on the network what else was useful

          As something else useful, the army was restored, the fleet is being built, new ships, submarines. A new cosmodrome, a bridge to the Crimea. All this became possible thanks to the Communist Party and personally to comrade Zyuganov. smile
          1. samoletil18
            samoletil18 8 June 2016 13: 57
            +1
            Quote: Alexander Romanov
            personally to comrade Zyuganov smile

            laughing
          2. Stas157
            Stas157 8 June 2016 14: 12
            +2
            Quote: Alexander Romanov
            As something else useful, the army was restored, the fleet is being built, new ships, submarines. A new cosmodrome, a bridge to the Crimea. All this became possible thanks to the Communist Party and personally to comrade Zyuganov.

            Here to this, the Communist Party and personally Comrade Zyuganov tirelessly urge! The deafening victories and achievements of the Soviet era prove that the communists come to power, our salaries with factories will increase, and the retirement age and working day will decrease!
            Romanov! Stop pouring dirt on the Communists and pit people on the forum!
            1. samoletil18
              samoletil18 8 June 2016 14: 24
              +1
              Quote: Stas157
              dirt on the communists

              This is a list of the Communist Party faction in the State Duma.
            2. Alexander Romanov
              Alexander Romanov 8 June 2016 14: 27
              0
              Quote: Stas157
              come to power, the Communists, and our salaries with factories will grow,

              And I say, 100 minimum wages, each woman for a man, each man for a bottle. Give the Communist Party.
              Plant to every yard !!!
              Quote: Stas157
              and the retirement age and working day will decrease!

              Yes, we’ll retire at 30, we’ll work three days a week, five hours each. No, it’s better four.
              Quote: Stas157
              Romanov! Stop pouring dirt on the Communists and pit people on the forum!

              What dirt, I’m for Comrade Zyuganov’s throat to any bite. Glory to the Communist Party-Zyuganov Glory!
              1. The comment was deleted.
                1. The comment was deleted.
                  1. Ruslan67
                    Ruslan67 8 June 2016 14: 44
                    +1
                    Quote: Alexander Romanov
                    Damn, it got to the tenderness

                    Me too sad
                    1. Alexander Romanov
                      Alexander Romanov 8 June 2016 15: 03
                      0
                      Quote: Ruslan67
                      Me too

                      The picture is not inserted, scha Fantast will restore order and again into battle laughing
                    2. Ruslan67
                      Ruslan67 8 June 2016 15: 06
                      +1
                      Quote: Alexander Romanov
                      SchA Fantast will restore order and fight again

                      Honestly, hands begin to drop sad This is not a battle, but some kind of invasion of dragonflies ...
                    3. stalkerwalker
                      stalkerwalker 8 June 2016 15: 08
                      +2
                      Quote: Alexander Romanov
                      scha Fantast will restore order

                      Yes, then does IT EXIST ???? wassat
            3. kotvov
              kotvov 8 June 2016 18: 39
              0
              What dirt, I’m for Comrade Zyuganov’s throat to any bite. Glory to the Communist Party-Zyuganov Glory! ,,
              no, let's jump and yell-Glory to iPhones, glory to Chubais, glory to the economic unit!
  • Alexey RA
    Alexey RA 8 June 2016 13: 16
    +1
    Quote: Alexander Romanov
    Here, another victory of the Communist Party, only thanks to Zyuganov we got a new plane.

    Winter has passed, summer has come - thanks to the party for this! wink
  • FID
    FID 8 June 2016 12: 44
    +1
    And the motors, I see, General Electric?
    1. Muvka
      Muvka 8 June 2016 12: 49
      0
      Quote: SSI
      And the motors, I see, General Electric?

      So it seemed to say right away that there would be no PD on the first copies. But at the same time there is an engine and it is tested in the sky.
      1. sa-ag
        sa-ag 9 June 2016 07: 40
        0
        Quote: Muvka
        So it seemed to say right away that there would be no PD on the first copies. But at the same time there is an engine and it is tested in the sky.

        A bit strange, the engine has been tested, but not put on the plane
    2. megafair
      megafair 8 June 2016 12: 50
      +1
      Quote: SSI
      And the motors, I see, General Electric?
      Again did not guess:
      Quote: Wikipedia
      MS-21 is planned to be equipped optionally one of two engines: Russian engine PD-14developed by Perm Aviadvigatel OJSC (developed on the basis of PS-12 (1999), officially since 2008, serial production is planned from 2016, at least 20-30 engines will be produced per year), or a Pratt & Whitney engine (American company producing aircraft engines for civil and military aviation) PW1400G models from the family of turbofan geared engines
    3. i80186
      i80186 8 June 2016 12: 53
      +2
      Quote: SSI
      And the motors, I see, General Electric?

      The project of creating the MS-21 initially assumed the presence of two alternative power plants - with Russian engines PD-14 or American Pratt & Whitney PW1400G.
      1. FID
        FID 8 June 2016 12: 57
        +1
        Yes, I'm weak with American technology ...
      2. Vadim237
        Vadim237 8 June 2016 13: 01
        0
        Aircraft will be exported with PW1400G engines.
        1. silver_roman
          silver_roman 8 June 2016 15: 43
          0
          It seems that the first ours in the country will also be P&W. True resource dvigla much less than the aircraft itself, so that over time, the PD will.
    4. Alex_59
      Alex_59 8 June 2016 13: 01
      +1
      Quote: SSI
      And the motors, I see, General Electric?

      This is what worries, in the interest appeared infa that the PD-14 will go only to departmental vehicles of the Northern Fleet, Ministry of Emergencies, Ministry of Defense, etc. And for commercial - imported engines. This is a great solution, the meaning of which is completely incomprehensible, unless of course it is true. Was it worth it for the sake of piece "salon" cars to fence a new engine? It's like our engine is uncompetitive junk ... a shame.
      1. Genry
        Genry 8 June 2016 13: 54
        +2
        Do not dissolve nurses!
        For internal use, there will be a PD-14. Upon receipt of international certificates and the development of maintenance, it will go further. But it takes time and money.
      2. Al1977
        Al1977 9 June 2016 11: 53
        0
        Quote: Alex_59
        Was it worth it for the sake of piece "salon" cars to fence a new engine? It's like our engine is uncompetitive junk ... a shame.

        If these are really excellent engines, then our customers and foreigners will buy them.
        The question is, after all, how long to wait for spare parts for this engine if the plane breaks down, say, in Europe. Spare parts for an American are in "every pharmacy", but for ours ...
        It's pure business ..
  • Dmitry Potapov
    Dmitry Potapov 8 June 2016 12: 45
    0
    Albright! Who are we there "with missiles"?
  • megafair
    megafair 8 June 2016 12: 46
    +1
    Great news! And then, skeptics just recently whined that the Superjet is garbage, no one will buy ... But in reality - a lot of orders, they leave the shops a few dozen a year. Now here we have the MS-21 :)
    1. Leto
      Leto 8 June 2016 12: 51
      .
      Quote: megafair
      And then, skeptics just recently whined that the Superjet is garbage, no one will buy ...

      And who is this Mr. buying? MS-21 yes, this is a thing, a great future, unlike ...
      1. Alexander Romanov
        Alexander Romanov 8 June 2016 12: 56
        +6
        Quote: Leto
        And who is this Mr. buying?

        Definitely not you.
      2. Lt. Air Force stock
        Lt. Air Force stock 8 June 2016 12: 56
        +11
        Quote: Leto
        And who is this Mr. buying?

        Superjet 100 has already 105 boards produced, in Aeroflot 26 fly + 24 still ordered.
        1. ayuric
          ayuric 8 June 2016 14: 13
          +6
          flew on a jet from Moscow to Chelyabinsk, 2 hours go, I will not say anything bad, as a short-haul is a great thing
          1. gispanec
            gispanec 8 June 2016 14: 47
            +1
            Quote: ayuric
            flew on a jet from Moscow to Chelyabinsk, 2 hours go, I will not say anything bad, as a short-haul is a great thing

            the same flew from Moscow to N Novgorod ... everything is great ... but here is the take-off-climb ... like a rocket)) .. almost vertically and quickly)) .. did not expect ..
          2. Alex_Tug
            Alex_Tug 10 June 2016 12: 52
            0
            I would not dare, the failure of channel A of avionics and Tryndets. Channel B is 30% in error. Although who knows about this? (((
      3. megafair
        megafair 8 June 2016 12: 58
        +2
        Quote: Leto
        And who is this Mr. buying?

        Out of 172 ordered, 85 have already been delivered, out of 94 ordered for Russian companies - the remaining 78 are for export, so there is no need for "ball blah blah" ...
        Here is a clear sign:
        https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sukhoi_Superjet_100#.D0.97.D0.B0.D0.BA.D0.B0.D0.B7
        .D1.8B_.D0.B8_.D0.BF.D0.BE.D1.81.D1.82.D0.B0.D0.B2.D0.BA.D0.B8
    2. Verdun
      Verdun 8 June 2016 13: 01
      0
      Quote: megafair
      And then, skeptics just recently whined that the Superjet is garbage, no one will buy ... But in reality - a lot of orders,

      There are orders for the Superjet. But the buyers are either Russian airlines or so-called "third countries". However, the plane, in which almost half of the components are imported, can be called Russian rather conditionally. I would very much like to hope that things will be different with the MS-21. First of all, you need your own motors.
      1. Alexander Romanov
        Alexander Romanov 8 June 2016 13: 08
        +5
        Quote: Verdun
        However, the aircraft, in which almost half of the components are imported, can be called Russian relatively arbitrarily.

        In this case, the Boeing American, can be called very conditionally.
        1. Lt. Air Force stock
          Lt. Air Force stock 8 June 2016 13: 10
          +5
          Quote: Alexander Romanov
          In this case, the Boeing American, can be called very conditionally

          And Airbus all the more, there Germany, the UK, France and many more countries are involved in production.
          1. saturn.mmm
            saturn.mmm 8 June 2016 15: 10
            +4
            Quote: Lt. air force reserve
            And Airbus all the more, there Germany, the UK, France and many more countries are involved in production.

            Russia among them.
        2. Alex_59
          Alex_59 8 June 2016 13: 24
          0
          Quote: Alexander Romanov
          In this case, the Boeing American, can be called very conditionally.

          Globalization - it is, yes. There is a very large percentage of ours. And in Airbuses there are even Ulyanovsk wings. Nevertheless, they keep the key production facilities. These are three whales - assembly, electronics, engines. SSJ for these parameters is ours only for the "assembly" item, and very, very little for the engine.
          The MS-21 is much more "our" aircraft, just like the Boeing is more American. In MS-21, the engine is ours, the assembly is ours, and only the electronics are theirs.
          1. Genry
            Genry 8 June 2016 14: 01
            +6
            Quote: Alex_59
            The MS-21 already has our engine, our assembly, and only electronics are theirs.

            You don’t know about electronics and write ... (such words are not spoken in a good society).
            1. Alex_59
              Alex_59 8 June 2016 20: 48
              +3
              Quote: Genry
              You don’t know about electronics and write ... (such words are not spoken in a good society).

              On account of "electronics you do not know" - he graduated from the university with a degree in "design of radio electronic means", worked for more than 5 years as a design engineer for long-distance communication equipment for JSC Russian Railways, FAPSI, Rostelecom. Therefore, I know everything in the best possible way. What is shown in the above video pleases me, it's good. However, the hardware part of the avionics is still built on imported components. components are not produced in the Russian Federation. We used processors from Texas Instruments, American semicondactors, etc. I personally designed 8-layer printed circuit boards similar to those in your computers. The boards themselves were manufactured by Hong Kong, the components were assembled here, but also on the conveyor and machine tools made in the USA. The software is ours. I think LLC "UAC-Integration Center" works according to a similar technology, but actually they have no choice, because of modern electronic components in housings for surface mounting in the Russian Federation, only resistors and some capacitors are produced. We also do not make machines for REP. Processors, the entire "intellectual" part - everything is imported. But the good news is that at least the development of products was entrusted to ours, and they did not buy ready-made ones.
          2. saturn.mmm
            saturn.mmm 8 June 2016 15: 14
            0
            Quote: Alex_59
            The MS-21 already has our engine, our assembly, and only electronics are theirs.

            In MS-21, the share of Russian avionics is 80%.
          3. Verdun
            Verdun 8 June 2016 17: 34
            0
            Quote: Alex_59
            Globalization - it is, yes. There is a very large percentage of our
            I think that engaging in the supply of components and components in a company that, in fact, is a competitor to you is not a good idea. Yes, today such a policy will help to feed oneself. Only tomorrow will turn into losses. Something I did not hear that Daimler-Benz supplied something for BMW, and Boeing - for Airbas.
            1. Anglorussian
              Anglorussian 8 June 2016 18: 09
              +1
              Daimler-Benz supplied something for BMW
              The BMW M51 diesel was put on the Opel Omega, RangeRover in 1995-2001. Samsung does not disdain the apple supply parts. Something like this..
      2. Lt. Air Force stock
        Lt. Air Force stock 8 June 2016 17: 55
        +1
        Quote: Verdun
        There are orders for the Superjet. Here are just the buyers - either Russian airlines or the so-called "third countries"

        At least we will provide ourselves with airplanes and that’s good. You can’t just get through to the world market.
        Only one possible option comes to mind: to create a revolutionary aircraft in the global aircraft industry that will not be 2-3% more economical than Boeing or Airbus, but 50-60%. But this is unlikely.
        1. Verdun
          Verdun 8 June 2016 20: 44
          0
          Quote: Lt. air force reserve
          At least we’ll provide ourselves with airplanes.

          We will provide ourselves with airplanes, the operation of which can be stopped at any time due to non-delivery of spare parts, because of whose economic efficiency is in question?
          BMW M51 diesel was put on Opel Omega, RangeRover in 1995-2001
          Opel and BMW are not direct competitors, these cars have different target audiences. And the Range in these was in the hands of BMW, it owned it, and after - sold it.
          1. Anglorussian
            Anglorussian 8 June 2016 21: 16
            0
            Opel and BMW are not direct competitors, these cars have different target audiences.
            Just Omega Celilasy in the segment of business sedans (unsuccessfully, true). And Samsung is not a problem for the Yabloko’s supply, but lead the competitors.
        2. Al1977
          Al1977 9 June 2016 12: 21
          0
          Quote: Lt. air force reserve
          At least we will provide ourselves with airplanes and that’s good. You can’t just get through to the world market.

          Which airline is in dire need of airplanes? Aeroflot?
          If it does not break through to the world market, the project will not pay off. There is only one way out - it is the world market.
          1. Lt. Air Force stock
            Lt. Air Force stock 9 June 2016 14: 05
            0
            Quote: Al1977
            Which airline is in dire need of airplanes? Aeroflot?

            Nevertheless, Aeroflot ordered 50 MS-21. Now, by the way, Aeroflot uses 50 A-320s.
      3. user1212
        user1212 9 June 2016 03: 30
        0
        Quote: Verdun
        However, the aircraft, in which almost half of the components are imported, can be called Russian relatively arbitrarily.

        And to which countries then are Boeing and Watermelon? laughing
        1. Verdun
          Verdun 9 June 2016 12: 11
          0
          Quote: user1212
          And to which countries then are Boeing and Watermelon?

          If you haven’t noticed, then these guys live in one chicken coop, and we live in another. Something I did not hear that Europe and the United States spread rotter sanctions.
    3. Engineer
      Engineer 8 June 2016 13: 07
      0
      They do not whine, but state the fact - Superjet - garbage. Aeroflot already spat on it - more downtime from malfunctions than flights. This plane was blinded from all the western trash that they could put together in a heap. Poghosyan warmed his hands very much on this project. Yes, it’s understandable here: one must be a complete fool to seriously think that a Boeing will help promote this on the international market. No one needs him there from the word - in general. About Mexico you can not even mind. This is not even a drop in the global market.
      1. Alexander Romanov
        Alexander Romanov 8 June 2016 13: 09
        +3
        Quote: Engineer
        They do not whine, but state the fact - Superjet - garbage. Aeroflot already spits on neg

        Did Aeroflot tell you this?
      2. Alex_59
        Alex_59 8 June 2016 13: 19
        +4
        Quote: Engineer
        Aeroflot already spat on it - more downtime from malfunctions than flights.

        I do not like SSJ, for the ruined Tu-334. However, he flies the infection. I see him in the sky every day.
        True, at the same time, Sukhoi Civil Aircraft continue to show a net loss every year ... It is not entirely clear how they do it with a sufficiently massive production of SSJs.
        1. Alexander Romanov
          Alexander Romanov 8 June 2016 13: 32
          +3
          Quote: Alex_59
          . How they get this with a fairly massive release of SSJ is not entirely clear.

          Fuck knows, Sukhoi Civil Aircraft is very arbitrary, since the enterprise also produces military products. They invested a lot of money in modernization, in development. Just a lot of fucking, because I think it's too early to talk about profit.
        2. Stas157
          Stas157 8 June 2016 14: 29
          +1
          Quote: Alex_59
          I do not like SSJ, for the ruined Tu-334.

          Nevertheless, the Superjet is a competitive aircraft, and the Tu-334 is not!

          Quote: Alex_59
          However, Sukhoi Civil Aircraft continue to show a net loss every year ...

          Breakeven occurs after the release of 200-300 aircraft. Even if the Superjet doesn’t work out as a plus, this is a huge achievement of the domestic aviation industry! Without such achievements, even if there may be unprofitable ones, breakthroughs into the future do not occur. There are so many failed Chinese projects! But, after all, they don’t give up anything ... and ultimately achieve their goal!
          Ah, the Superjet is a modern, beautiful and very balanced plane! I am sure that in the end it will not only pay off, but also make a profit.
          1. Alex_59
            Alex_59 8 June 2016 14: 42
            +5
            Quote: Stas157
            Nevertheless, the Superjet is a competitive aircraft, and the Tu-334 is not!
            That which is not - of course, cannot be competitive. The dead don't bite. The point is that when the government chose a regional aircraft project to support it, they chose the SSJ, not the Tu-334. Although the Tu-334 at 100% is our plane (there is one problem there - Ukrainian D-436T engines, but in those years there was peace, friendship, chewing gum with Ukraine). Those. our Dimon iPhones immediately decided that let's buy French avionics, engines, etc., and what our engine engineers and electronic engineers would do than earn bread from the bread and butter — these are not our problems, we are for the free market, we are against protectionism! That’s such patriotism, and today it’s suddenly, oh, and let's get down to import substitution. Where have you been before? Oh, you can’t swear ... sorry ...

            Quote: Stas157
            Breakeven occurs after the release of 200-300 aircraft.

            I think we are talking about different things. GSS shows the annual loss on revenue. This means that either they continue to invest something annually from the personal funds of shareholders or the state, or they sell planes at a price below cost. With negative revenue, it is impossible to break even or payback the project in principle. That's when the revenue will be positive, you can calculate when the project will pay off, if you know how much has already been invested.
            1. ARES623
              ARES623 8 June 2016 15: 23
              +5
              Quote: Alex_59
              With negative revenue, it is impossible to break even or payback the project in principle. That's when the revenue will be positive, you can calculate when the project will pay off, if you know how much has already been invested.

              An airplane is a complicated thing, the profit from it does not end with the sale of the product itself, then the deadlines for receipt of revenue from regulations and TR come. I am not an economist, but I think that in any case, doing your own thing is better than carrying money in wagons for import. Our production is the turnover of funds within the country, jobs, acquired competencies and many other advantages. Any complex product is born difficult. And we’ve been doing engines for decades, but ourselves. Not many countries can boast of this. I think everything will be quite good. The fact that we temporarily use other people's components is not fatal. And the prime minister makes decisions using a much broader range of facts, conditions and risks than we can imagine, and worries about his work no less than many discussing and condemning him. Personally, I will not spit in such a contemptuous way, I myself lead some of the teams and imagine that this is not easy at all ...
              1. Alex_59
                Alex_59 8 June 2016 20: 56
                0
                Quote: ARES623
                An airplane is a complicated thing, the profit from it does not end with the sale of the product itself, then the deadlines for receipt of revenue from regulations and TR come

                Undoubtedly. Wait and see.
                Quote: ARES623
                Personally, I won’t spit in such a contemptuous way, I myself lead a team and imagine that it happens not at all easy ...

                I also have leadership experience. Therefore, I cannot criticize Putin the same way - a person does not say what he does not understand, or he speaks carefully, evasively, with an understanding of the weight of his words. Dimon is perceived, sorry, like a balabol. He speaks a lot, beautifully, but about nothing. The work of all of them is hard - this is a fact. But somehow you need to learn not only to make a meaningful appearance, to puff out your cheeks and grind with your tongue, but also to understand the essence of things, which I don’t see point blank at Dimon.
                1. PHANTOM-AS
                  PHANTOM-AS 8 June 2016 21: 12
                  0
                  Quote: Alex_59
                  But somehow you need to learn not only to make a meaningful appearance, to puff out your cheeks and grind with your tongue, but also to understand the essence of things, which I don’t see point blank at Dimon.

                  And you have not forgotten that not long ago he was president and everyone went to vote for him at the request of the GDP, and after the next rotation he appointed him prime minister? this is aerobatics! And it never occurs to anyone at what level the people "run" the country.
                  "Good mood, health. But no money"
                  1. Alex_59
                    Alex_59 8 June 2016 22: 24
                    0
                    Quote: PHANTOM-AS
                    And you did not forget that he was recently the president and everyone went to vote for him at the request of the GDP, and after the next rotation appointed him prime minister?

                    Yes it was. I am ashamed to think now. I really didn’t vote for him then, but the second time I still won’t lead to this divorce. Eh ... Stalin is not on them ... And on us, too.
                2. ARES623
                  ARES623 8 June 2016 23: 16
                  0
                  Quote: Alex_59
                  Dimon is perceived, sorry, like a balabol. He speaks a lot, beautifully, but about nothing.

                  Quote: Alex_59
                  we must learn not only to make a meaningful appearance, to puff out our cheeks and grind our tongues, but also to understand the essence of things, which I do not see point blank at Dimon.

                  Everyone has their own way of speaking. You, too, are showing more rudeness, being sure that you will not have to answer for the words. And he himself will not answer you, even if he reads it. The level is not the same. Putin is not a d.u.r.a.k., and he will not pull the strap for two, which means he sees in DAM a person who can be entrusted with the leadership of the government. And about his (Medvedev) phrase that "there is no money and there will be no indexation of pensions, there will be money - we will index it", so what? But there is really no money, I see it from the funding of federal programs. Are you proposing to promise your grandmother what you cannot do? We still have to ask, why does granny have such a pension? By the way, a communal apartment for a kopeck piece in Crimea is about 1500-2000 rubles. I pay for 4-ku 8000 in the summer, up to 12000 in the winter. At the same time, I would recommend collecting your own pension. As long as there is strength and salary. Trust in Allah, and tie the camel ...
                  1. Alex_59
                    Alex_59 9 June 2016 00: 27
                    +1
                    Quote: ARES623
                    And about his (Medvedev) phrase that "there is no money and there will be no indexation of pensions, there will be money - we will index it", so what?

                    It's not about this phrase at all. Examples can be collected by the sea. Starting from "let's move the clock to the whole country by two hours back and forth."
                    Quote: ARES623
                    But there really is no money, I see this in financing federal programs.

                    Where is the money? Here you, the leader, can you imagine that you will turn this to your subordinates - "but there is no money ..." Dmitry Anatolyevich, you have been in the country's leadership for 15 years, and the result of your work is "no money"? Or, on today's occasion, his words: "we need to work “for the future” and continue to update the fleet of Russian civil aviation. Dmitry Anatolyevich, what are you talking about? Are you familiar with the state of affairs in the aviation industry in general, since you are talking about the need to CONTINUE to update the fleet? Continue what? The first plane can be said to have been made in 25 years. The Samara aircraft plant goes bankrupt, the Saratov one has already been destroyed, Ukrainian planes are assembled at VASO, KAPO is idle. There is only SSJ, but he is not really ours and this is more of Poghosyan's merit. E-my, tell me honestly - "we have lost a lot, we have ceased to be leaders, people get up, stop lying on the stove, let's raise the aviation industry, otherwise in a few years Irkut and Sukhoi alone will remain" - that's what the leader of the nation should say.
                    1. ARES623
                      ARES623 9 June 2016 12: 11
                      +1
                      Quote: Alex_59
                      Where is the money? Here you, the leader, you imagine that you will turn this to your subordinates - "but there is no money ..."

                      And you know, you have to say that too - you guys are great, but there will be no increase in wages this year. If anyone finds a better job, I’m sorry, but I’ll try to understand ... This is not easy to say, but it’s honest. And Medvedev did not say that there is no pension money at all, but only that there is no money for indexation. Where did the money go? Even Siluanov will not answer this question for you. It remains only to trust those who have been elected. Poroshenko, for example, promised everyone everything, but did nothing - I don’t think it’s better.
                      Quote: Alex_59
                      Dmitry Anatolyevich, what are you talking about? Are you familiar with the state of affairs in the aviation industry in general, since you are talking about the need to CONTINUE to update the fleet? Continue what? The first plane can be said to have been made in 25 years. The Samara aircraft plant goes bankrupt, the Saratov one has already been destroyed, Ukrainian planes are assembled at VASO, KAPO is idle. There is only SSJ, but he is not really ours and this is more of Poghosyan's merit. E-my, tell me honestly - "we have lost a lot, we have ceased to be leaders, people get up, stop lying on the stove, let's raise the aviation industry, otherwise in a few years Irkut and Sukhoi alone will remain" - that's what the leader of the nation should say.

                      Yes, yes, suk and idlers, h ... are you here ???? Everyone in the cameras and sharpen, sharpen, sharpen !!!! Or maybe you will come to your beloved father-in-law for your 70th birthday and say - happy birthday, you are no longer dangerous for women, hemorrhoids sticking out of the leg, there are three hairs on your head, which is already a lot for your age, and in general you have already stepped over your "life span", show me where the babkt is for the funeral and ... Amen. No, won't you tell? And what? But this is true! So I think there are things that should not be said aloud at celebrations, and it is better not even to think about them at such a moment. Moreover, you are dissembling too.
                      In Russian federation
                      Year Airplanes ("UAC" [5]) Helicopters ("Russian Helicopters" [6])
                      2015 140 military
                      ? civilian [7] 280 [8]
                      2014 124 military
                      33 civil 271
                      2013 80 military
                      32 civil 275
                      2012 80 military
                      23 civil 290
                      2011 88 military
                      7 civil 262
                      2010 214

                      Of course, this is not Boeing or Watermelon, but we did it, not Allah gave. Why multiply the entire industry by "0". If you are called a dumbass without a doctorate, would you agree? And everyone knows that the industry needs to be raised, and Medvedev, as a leader, must show the way to the goal and convince that this goal is achievable, including thanks to those who have gathered next to him. The leader's job is to guide, motivate, inspire and provide. And the search for the causes and culprits of failures should be left to the prosecutor.
                      1. Alex_59
                        Alex_59 9 June 2016 19: 45
                        +1
                        Quote: ARES623
                        And you know, I have to say this too - guys, you are great, but this year there will be no increase in wages.

                        Well, we are not the government, we are the owners of the business. But for Medvedev, who is the servant of the people, the question should be different: you are Dmitry Anatolyevich, well done, but since there will be no salary increase for this year, let's goodbye.
                        Quote: ARES623
                        The leader's task is to guide, motivate, inspire and provide.

                        Medvedev does not motivate me or absolutely inspire me. He directs, in my understanding, also badly. What provides I can not know. Collectively, rather than good. But this is my personal opinion on which it is completely legal for everyone except me in parallel.
                        Quote: ARES623
                        Especially since you are cunning.
                        In Russian federation
                        Year Aircraft

                        Everything except the Ansat helicopter and SSJ aircraft were developed in the USSR. Well, PAK-FA is still, for the most part, created and tested after the 91 year. I am not an alarmist and not hysterical, but in recent years there has been growth and progress. I'm glad for that. This is better than it was in 90. But at the heart of these successes is still the Soviet backlog.
                      2. ARES623
                        ARES623 9 June 2016 20: 19
                        +1
                        Quote: Alex_59
                        Everything except the Ansat helicopter and SSJ aircraft were developed in the USSR. Well, PAK-FA is still, for the most part, created and tested after the 91 year. I am not an alarmist and not hysterical, but in recent years there has been growth and progress. I'm glad for that. This is better than it was in 90. But at the heart of these successes is still the Soviet backlog.

                        You know, and I myself touched the Soviet era. In the USA, both "737" and C-5 are a little younger than me, but here the other day the three B-52s were transferred to Europe, then they are generally over 600 years old, and they do not reflect. And our difficulties not only from our foolishness, but also Europe opened its mouth with a whole bunch of our goodness, and we again save the world, for the umpteenth time ... And when was it easy for us? And your opinion is really personal, and notice that no one denies you the right to it, and the door does not smear with tar. So, it's not all bad. The water is still wet, the sky is blue, and life is what we think of it.
        3. Leto
          Leto 8 June 2016 15: 01
          +2
          Quote: Stas157
          Nevertheless, the Superjet is a competitive aircraft, and the Tu-334 is not!

          The Tu-334 would be no less widespread than the Superjet at a much lower cost. What was described above about its "relevance" does not correspond to the previously announced plans, the Superjet is a failure which is kept at the expense of the state.
          1. Arikkhab
            Arikkhab 8 June 2016 19: 43
            +2
            it should be added that the Tu-334 made its first flight in 1999, and if the program had not been "turned down", then perhaps many regional / local carriers would have chosen it to update the fleet (from the same Tu-134 or An-24) ( price, Russian-made, familiar manufacturer's name, local components, maintainability, etc.). and so a "gap" was formed before the start of production of ssj-100, so many bought used foreign aircraft of this class
        4. avt
          avt 8 June 2016 15: 09
          0
          Quote: Stas157
          Nevertheless, the Superjet is a competitive aircraft, and the Tu-334 is not!

          laughing This is already a direct sect. It’s already the fact that the Red Wings and Uther have leaked their Super Budgets in anticipation of the MS-21, and ... who’s talking about it, and lousy about the bath
          Quote: Stas157
          Breakeven occurs after the release of 200-300 aircraft.

          Well, the classic
          Quote: Stas157
          Even if the Superjet doesn’t work out as a plus, this is a huge achievement of the domestic aviation industry!

          For such a HUGE ACHIEVEMENT on the principle of which an article was posted here on the site stating that a negative result with GSS is a great achievement in gaining experience and a team that cannot bring a car to mind, and even for such BUDGET money for a COMMERCIAL successful project. wassat
          Quote: Alex_59
          . GSS shows the annual loss on revenue.

          With regular capitalization of the SCA with BUDGET money.
          Ah, the Superjet is a modern, beautiful and very balanced plane! I am sure that in the end it will not only pay off, but also bring profit
          laughing
          The end is simple, the tractor came and there was a cable and there was a doctor ...
          1. Stas157
            Stas157 8 June 2016 16: 17
            +2
            Quote: avt
            For such a HUGE ACHIEVEMENT on the principle of which an article was posted here on the site stating that a negative result with GSS is a great achievement in gaining experience and a team that cannot bring a car to mind, and even for such BUDGET money for a COMMERCIAL successful project.

            You use a lot of adjectives in the description, but few arguments. You should go to the writers, otherwise such talent is inept on the VO website!))
            Pouring dirt in the direction of the mega project, the first Russian ship, is of course easy! Well, building a world-class aircraft is not easy! Only a few countries can do this. China spends several times more on airplanes, but hasn’t built anything worthwhile in the aircraft industry! A low bow to Poghosyan, which essentially saved our civilian industry from extinction! He made a very good plane and was able to establish its rhythmic production. This is a very difficult task, which cannot be solved by injecting money alone.

            Quote: avt
            With regular capitalization of the SCA with BUDGET money.

            And who does it happen otherwise?

            Quote: avt
            The end is simple, the tractor came and there was a cable and there was a doctor ...

            You shouldn’t be so, about the Superjet.
            1. avt
              avt 8 June 2016 17: 04
              +1
              Quote: Stas157
              Pouring dirt in the direction of the mega project, the first Russian ship, is of course easy!

              Argumenty you are ours, well, how much is real on the wing and with flight clocks from the mega-series in the mega project? What is there about the return from the “beautiful far away” Superbudgets leased out? What about the Chinese contract of the SCA, the Iranian? Give me the numbers and for one pro
              Quote: Stas157
              Only a few countries can do this. China,

              China for your Svidomo Boeing similar bought in a batch of 800 cars of different classes.
              Quote: Stas157
              The first Russian liner, of course, easy!

              From what side is it 80% of imported components and "intellectual property" of Boeing Russian?
              Quote: Stas157
              A low bow to Poghosyan, which essentially saved our civilian

              And to his son for the SCAC and budget capitalization to this day. Don't you want to look when the LADY poured into the commercially successful project of capturing the segment of the world market "rubles with 9 zeros? Did you fulfill the condition of capitalization? Well, you made 30 cars a year?
              Quote: Stas157
              You use a lot of adjectives in the description,
              adjective to the project.
              And the warranty service of airplanes with the delivery of imported blocks with payment by the operator of the customs duty, which is NOT INCLUDED IN THE GUARANTEE, thank you Poghosyan! And the revocation of the license from the SCAC for the technical support of the Superbudget itself is also an adjective ??? Well, not an argument for sure, but natural sabotage. For the glory of the Superbudget, he spread rot and finished off the An-148, which had 500 flight hours per month , for a second, the Red Wings dispersed the Superbudget to 300 and .... merged ALL Superbudgets, now, for lack of Tu, they are waiting for MS-21.
              Quote: Stas157
              And who does it happen otherwise?

              Actually, in the same USA, for such a scam, the leadership of the SCA would have already been sitting by a court decision for fraud. stupidly overwrite critical comments on "Made with us", seeing this there, somehow he didn't want to register with them and enter into some kind of discussions. sectarianism
              1. Stas157
                Stas157 8 June 2016 18: 03
                +2
                Quote: avt
                Argumenty you are ours, well, how much is real on the wing and with flight clocks from the mega-series in the mega project? What is there about the return from the “beautiful far away” Superbudgets leased out? What about the Chinese contract of the SCA, the Iranian? Give me the numbers and for one pro

                A site was created specifically for such delays here: http://superjet.wikidot.com/start
                There you will find all the numbers!

                Quote: avt
                From what side is it 80% of imported components and "intellectual property" of Boeing Russian?

                So what? IPhone in general in China collect! But Russian engineers are working on Boeing and Russian titanium is coming. Any modern aircraft is made in international cooperation! Without this, it is not possible to get a competitive product.

                Quote: avt
                And his son for the SCAC and budget capitalization to this day. Do not want to search when the LADY poured rubles into a commercially successful project to capture a segment of the world market with 9 zeros?

                You’ll have a wife! Is it from this that the Superjet has become worse? Don't lump everything together. And the sum with 9 zeros, even when a new model of a car is being introduced, is poured into the plane! What did you want to say there, I still did not understand, except that "the money was spent on the plane is not!" If there is a theft or a problem with the "son" then let the prosecutor's office deal with it!


                Quote: avt
                And the warranty service of airplanes with the delivery of imported blocks with payment by the operator of the customs duty, which is NOT INCLUDED IN THE GUARANTEE, thank you Poghosyan! And the revocation of the license from the SCAC for technical support of the Superbudget itself is also an adjective ??? Well, not an argument for sure, but natural sabotage.

                And what is bad about this plane? Everything is lost? There are problems if you do in any business! Poghosyan was removed, now Slyusar is engaged in all this. God grant that the problems are resolved.

                Quote: avt
                Actually, in the same USA, for such a scam, the SCA leadership would already be sitting by a court decision for fraud.

                Let the prosecutor's office engage in frauds, if any. Managing to bring a world-class aircraft to rhythmic production is not a scam. In the USA, there are scams! Remember how a private company brought the US nuclear industry to complete degradation and helped close the last plant in Paduc. And this is with the infusion of such huge state. money that Pogosyan did not dream of!
                1. avt
                  avt 8 June 2016 19: 21
                  +1
                  Quote: Stas157
                  There you will find all the numbers!

                  laughing That is, we do not want to?
                  Quote: Stas157
                  Any modern aircraft is made in international cooperation! Without this, it is not possible to get a competitive product.

                  laughing Well, how many, again in numbers, "competitive" Superbudget countries have won that? Or can we only sleep with adjectives?
                  Quote: Stas157
                  And what is bad about this plane?

                  hospital average plane,
                  Quote: Stas157
                  Everything is lost?

                  No . Only the budget money was put into it and according to the criterion of cost - efficiency, in those days distant, now almost epic, the lads from the GSStop manager, promised themselves in especially large amounts for the tower, but - “We are not 37 years old.
                  Quote: Stas157
                  There are problems if you do in any business

                  If you make money from the budget to offshore through Italy and then try to get on the London Stock Exchange with GSS shares and try to declare yourself bankrupt, then there will definitely be problems with the iron.
                  Quote: Stas157
                  Managing to bring a world-class aircraft to rhythmic production is not a scam.

                  Rhythmically disrupting the announced number of airplane production for BUDGET money and just as rhythmically pushing a commercially successful airplane into corners? laughing Well, who is pouring out adjectives here like a recklessly religious sectarian?
                  Quote: Lt. air force reserve
                  I don’t know how about the Tu-334 (recently they seem to choose what they will build An-148, Il-114, or Tu-334)

                  Il-114 finally sold and will do ... already from the backlog of Tashkent! 148 campaign crushed, but sorry! The car is good and the documentation was purchased, but Antonov retained technical support for the campaign.
                  Quote: Lt. air force reserve
                  that's for how the replacement of the Tu-204

                  Tu-204 MS seems, despite the angry stomping DAM- import substitute leg! Build! Really killed - cooperation is destroyed, so, from Zadeoa another 214 will be completed and that's it. Indeed, MS-21 is on its way, but for now it will be certified, the Boeing and the Airbus will bank. The 334 certified direct competitor to the Super Budget Po shot down on takeoff. So the campaign is an orphan of Kazan in single copies and will remain. Well, if MC-21 is suddenly really deployed, then remember the thought - the Super Budget will quietly merge and everyone will write off losses under fanfares about the successes of the aviation industry.
                  1. PHANTOM-AS
                    PHANTOM-AS 8 June 2016 19: 30
                    +1
                    Quote: avt
                    Well, if the MC-21 is suddenly really deployed, then remember the thought - the Super Budget will quietly merge and everyone will write off the losses due to fanfare about the successes of the aviation industry.

                    Aha, but for us "keep here. Good mood and health" (c). wassat
                    1. avt
                      avt 8 June 2016 19: 39
                      +1
                      Quote: PHANTOM-AS
                      Yeah, but for us "keep here. Good mood and health"

                      Well, for such grandmothers, I would have wished every morning for that and in the evening at night. By the way, A question for an adherent of the sect of the Superbudget, referring
                      Quote: Stas157

                      A site was created specifically for such delays here: http://superjet.wikidot.com/start
                      There you will find all the numbers!

                      What does it say about
                      From July 1, 2016, the Russian airline Red Wings will suspend commercial flights on regional aircraft Sukhoi Superjet 100 (SSJ 100), according to the Federal Air Transport Agency. The Office introduced appropriate restrictions at the request of the carrier itself. Their expiration date is unknown.

                      As explained in the materials of the Federal Air Transport Agency, Red Wings asked to introduce restrictions based on the results of a scheduled inspection of basic facilities, during which "inconsistencies with the requirements of air legislation" were discovered.

                      The Red Wings and the Federal Air Transport Agency refused to comment on the situation.
                      What kind of mismatches !? laughingWell, at the same time, answer us already poor and wretched - for what successes in the successful commercial project of budget money development did the GSS withdraw the right to provide technical support for the Super Budget ??
                    2. PHANTOM-AS
                      PHANTOM-AS 8 June 2016 20: 18
                      +1
                      Quote: avt
                      for what successes in the successful commercial project for the development of budget money did the GSS withdraw the right to technical support of the Super Budget ??

                      here are the key dates, provided that the 334th has been certified !!!
                      On March 11, 2003, the expert council considered it possible to recognize the RRJ project as the winner of the competition.

                      On February 17, 2006, KnAAPO began assembling the first RRJ (No. 97002), [9] on January 28, 2007 it was delivered to the An-124 from Komsomolsk-on-Amur to Zhukovsky for static tests at TsAGI. [10]
                      And we are losing a decade and a half, on a deliberately unprofitable project with a localization of 70% !!!
                      And this despite the fact that in the USSR it was one of the best, I would even say, the best school of aircraft construction.
                      It is to what extent it is necessary to destroy everything, so that after 30 years to rejoice only in the sample not launched into the series. am
                  2. Nforce
                    Nforce 8 June 2016 23: 34
                    -3


                    Yeah, but for us "keep in a good mood" - something like this?
                2. Stas157
                  Stas157 8 June 2016 21: 23
                  +2
                  Quote: avt
                  That is, we do not want to?

                  No I do not want to. On my specified site there is all the information of interest.

                  Quote: avt
                  Well, how many, again in numbers, "competitive" Superbudget countries have won that? Or can we only sleep with adjectives?


                  If you do not agree that the Superjet is competitive, then give specific examples of which aircraft are better and what!

                  Quote: avt
                  hospital average plane

                  Examples please, which plane is better? And how many such planes?


                  Quote: avt
                  Only the budget money was put into it and according to the criterion of cost - efficiency, in those days distant, now almost epic, the lads from the GSStop manager, promised themselves in especially large amounts for the tower, but - “We are not 37 years old.

                  The money spent on a superjet, on the contrary, is not big. And I believe that the project can pay off.

                  Quote: avt
                  Rhythmically disrupting the announced number of airplanes for BUDGET money and just as rhythmically pushing a commercially successful airplane into corners? Laughing Well, who here is pouring adjectives like a recklessly religious sectarian?

                  Nobody interrupted the production of aircraft, it was adjusted according to demand, nevertheless 105 issued aircraft (so far!), This is undoubtedly an achievement!

                  Quote: avt
                  148 crushed campaign, but sorry! The car is good and the documentation was purchased, but Antonov retained technical support for the campaign.

                  I don’t know why they make the morally obsolete An148, in which there is much more foreign, from the engines to the documentation for the aircraft itself, than in the modern Superjet!

                  Quote: avt
                  Tu-204 MS seems, despite the angry stomping DAM- import substitute leg! Build! Really killed

                  On the Tu-204CM, there really is no and there was no demand, from the word in general! But, nothing prevents it from producing! Its modification of the Tu-214 is still being produced.
                  1. PHANTOM-AS
                    PHANTOM-AS 8 June 2016 22: 04
                    0
                    Quote: Stas157
                    If you do not agree that the Superjet is competitive, then give specific examples of which aircraft are better and what!

                    Colleague, I respect you and apologize for getting in trouble hi
                    The conversation about this very SSJ has been going on for three years at the floor. for sure, but there are also special air sites where the designers, test pilots, and manufacturers made their case, I draw your attention in favor of the Tu-334, as an absolutely Russian aircraft, moreover, it has a certificate, but ...
                    Poghosyan and his ilk lobbied the SSJ for the budget, there was still a joke such as sepperpurr-jet = budget. lol
                    How do you think to take into production a plane with a localization of 70% and abandon yours, what is it? what to call it?
                  2. Stas157
                    Stas157 9 June 2016 08: 28
                    +2
                    Quote: PHANTOM-AS
                    I draw your attention in favor of the Tu-334, as an absolutely Russian aircraft, moreover, having a certificate, but ...
                    Poghosyan and his ilk lobbied the SSJ for the budget, there was still a joke such as sepperpurr-jet = budget. lol
                    How do you think to take into production a plane with a localization of 70% and abandon yours, what is it? what to call it?

                    All they can, gentlemen of all, say bad about the Superjet: "I drank the budget! Poghosyan's son! 70% foreign! (This is no longer true!)" And that's all! There is nothing more to cling to!
                    The plane is very good, competitive. The idea was to initially take all the best that is in the world and make a world-class aircraft out of it. Happened! And then gradually reduce the share of foreign components. (If there was an airplane, we can always replace our parts!) By the way, it is much smaller than in An148, which, for some reason, has no such complaints! The approach is right. In this way, the leaders of the aircraft industry Boeing with Airbus act in the creation of their aircraft! No other way.
                    Tu-334 is also not all Russian, it has foreign engines! Yes, even outdated. Any comparison of the Superjet with the Tu-334 will not be in favor of the latter. Of course, it is possible to produce the Tu-334, but is there any demand for it? More modern Tu-204SM do not want to take!
                3. avt
                  avt 9 June 2016 09: 50
                  +1
                  Quote: Stas157
                  If you do not agree that the Superjet is competitive, then give specific examples of which aircraft are better and what!

                  The one that HUNDRED is bought by China, Iran and further on the list, unlike the Superbudget, which is simply imposed on the inside, and rubbed in with pieces with preferences.
                  Quote: Stas157
                  Examples please, which plane is better? And how many such planes?

                  See Boeing, Airbus, Embraer, which are massively, despite the attempts of Po, used in Russia.
                  Quote: Stas157
                  . And I believe that the project can pay off.

                  What do you actually think? Already invested money and profit? With constantly declared losses and attempted bankruptcy of the GSS, prevented by a budget infusion? Well then it’s for sure to a specialized specialist. I’m not a practicing psychiatrist.
                  Quote: Stas157
                  I don’t know why they make morally obsolete An148

                  For the fact that he flew lightly for 500 hours a month, until he bankrupt the airline and put the car on a joke. And the Red Wings could only strain the Super Budget by 300 and .... the company remained, and the cars were withdrawn from the fleet. Here's a commercial project ... successful.
                  Quote: Stas157
                  ! (This is no longer true!) "And that's all! There is nothing more to cling to!
                  The plane is very good, competitive. The idea was to initially take all the best that is in the world and make a world-class aircraft out of it. Happened!

                  Well, a clean little child cried = this is not great-a-a-avdv! You are all lying! Well, or really a sectarian.
                  Quote: Stas157
                  Of course, it is possible to produce the Tu-334, but is there any demand for it? More modern Tu-204SM do not want to take!

                  laughing Yes, there is nowhere for the same Red Wings to take the Tu-204CM NO IT, even at the request of the LADY - IMPORT SUBSTITUTE! "Suddenly" it turned out - there was nothing to do - the cooperation was KILLED, and in the days of Po. Well, this is Hari Super, Hari Po already really got tired of it. Well, what such a Superbudget is commercially successful at SUCH costs and the fact that it is stupidly shoved from the parking lot in Zhukovsky , wherever they can, but the same application from "Angara" for "obsolete", commercially unprofitable "was stupidly lost, under the guise of fulfilling the state order for An-148 in Voronezh for the needs of the Ministry of Emergencies and Ministry of Defense? Moreover, the Ministry of Emergency Situations got the Superbudget in the VIP configuration - they also financed the SCA budget from this side. wassat
                4. Stas157
                  Stas157 9 June 2016 10: 58
                  +2
                  Quote: avt
                  The one that HUNDRED is bought by China, Iran and further on the list, unlike the Superbudget, which is simply imposed on the inside, and rubbed in with pieces with preferences.

                  Quote: avt
                  See Boeing, Airbus, Embraer, which are massively, despite the attempts of Po, used in Russia.

                  Can you name a specific model? Or can you only figuratively? Writer! Brands, you see, you know, and now work on a specific model ...

                  Quote: avt
                  For the fact that he flew lightly for 500 hours a month, until he bankrupt the airline and put the car on a joke. And the Red Wings were able to strain the Super Budget only by 300 and ....

                  And where did you get that morally obsolete cannot fly for hours? The fact that it flies does not make it more competitive and economical!

                  Quote: avt
                  Well, a clean little child cried = this is not great-a-a-avdv! You are all lying! Well, or really a sectarian.

                  In vain you ruin the talent of a writer! Here, from you, not descriptive, theatrical scenes are expected, but objective arguments.)))

                  Quote: avt
                  Yes, there is nowhere for the same Red Wings to take the Tu-204CM NO EG

                  The plane is there. No orders!
                5. Mordvin 3
                  Mordvin 3 9 June 2016 11: 26
                  +3
                  Quote: Stas157
                  The plane is there. No orders!

                  Stas, catch a couple of facts:
                  Summer 2010g. President Medvedev agreed with B. Obama to purchase 50 Boeing aircraft worth 4 billion dollars, which, according to Obama, will give the US 44 thousand. work places.
                  2011: after the Yak-42 disaster, the president declares: "you do not know how to make your own aircraft, we will buy abroad."
                  So who orders planes from us, and where does the money go? At yesterday's presentation, DAM woke up from a lethargic sleep? Krrruto!
                6. avt
                  avt 9 June 2016 11: 36
                  +1
                  Quote: Stas157
                  The plane is there. No orders!

                  good This is definitely a super budget! laughing
                  Quote: Stas157
                  and now bother the specific model ...

                  Gugel to help Here, knock on the clave, as I was advised recently with the Super Budget, and you will see what analogues of the Super Budget are from the last order of 300 (TRIST) airplanes for $ 38 billion, where are they going to the commercially successful licensed assembly of the Super Budget in China .... Or was this assembly covered with a copper basin? And how, by the way, is Vietnam doing with the Super Budget? laughing Again, Gugel, to help with the Airbus deal with Iran on a specific contract for a line of airplanes to renew the Iranian fleet, and about the Bombardiers, do not forget to see who rolled their fan pieces onto 120 lips. Look and take pride in what "stupid Iranian-Chinese" obsolete airplanes, in contrast to the Superbudget, buys. Savages, sir, do not understand their happiness. laughing But this is not an argument for the adherents of the Super Budget sect, it’s quite an adjective ..... an adjective to quite a specific air transportation, rather than a GESH using paper by means of a completely ordinary machine, nothing more than natural, promised not outstanding from the general number of machines. cry over your leisure time
                  Quote: avt
                  The first will be overwhelmed by the Superbudget - they will quietly write off the project as a loss, leaving the finished one to finish. If you carefully study the articles of "responsible comrades" on this pre-election presentation of the layout (when they fly a natural airplane into the air and even more so certify, I will not comment - time will tell, but we are lagging behind for sure), then there slipped infa about the creation of a "shortened" modification of the MS -21. Now compare this with those voiced back then, before the withdrawal By strained exclamations about the need to finance a "long", even more mega competitive version of the Superbudget.

                  Consoling yourself with a "niche" that no one will occupy anyway. laughing
                7. Stas157
                  Stas157 9 June 2016 12: 04
                  +2
                  Quote: avt
                  This is definitely a super budget!

                  I wrote this about the Tu-204SM, and not about the Superjet!

                  Quote: avt
                  Googel to help. Here, knock on the clave, as I was advised recently with the Super Budget.

                  I do not need Google, I already know that at the moment there is no better analogue of the Superjet! You tried to argue that the SSJ is a mediocre aircraft, but for some reason you do not want to provide data, but which plane is better?
                  So, knock on the clave yourself, in a futile attempt to find this very plane, a pesatel!
                8. Stas157
                  Stas157 9 June 2016 14: 01
                  +2
                  Quote: avt
                  Googel to help. Here, knock on the clave.

                  Hey, pesatel! Is your creative fuse over or is your message limit? For starters, I’ll probably tell analogues SSZH-100!
                  Embraer 190, Bombardier CRJ1000, AN-148. None of the aircraft listed, IN ANYTHING, is better than the superjet you desperate for!
                  You can puff up and strain your talent as much as you like, denigrate the First Russian civilian plane in attempts, you won't have any adjectives, against stubborn facts!
  • Lt. Air Force stock
    Lt. Air Force stock 8 June 2016 16: 55
    +1
    Quote: Alex_59
    I do not like SSJ, for the ruined Tu-334.

    I don’t know how about the Tu-334 (recently they seem to choose what they will build An-148, Il-114, or Tu-334)
    But for how the replacement of the Tu-204 MS-21 was needed. Tu-204 was developed in the late 80s and early 90s, 26 years have passed already, the union collapsed because of this a large series did not work (by the way, the Tu-154 was built more than 1000 at the time), it was modernized several times, the latest version of Tu -204CM, but the glider essentially remained so, and in the MC-21 it’s completely wings (the wings, by the way, were made using some original technology) and the tail of the aircraft is made of composite materials, which greatly reduced the weight of the aircraft and, as a result, increased fuel efficiency.
    1. Arikkhab
      Arikkhab 8 June 2016 19: 47
      +2
      IL-114 and Tu-334 probably from different classes will be?
  • samoletil18
    samoletil18 8 June 2016 13: 49
    +3
    Quote: Engineer
    more downtime than flying

    The superset has an official site. Take a look at the sections, a lot of interesting things.
    And remember how in the early 2000s, Ukraine, with the type of our patriots An-140 touted, demanded the abandonment of SSJ! A plane in a series, localization increase, foreigners charge, and the price has already grown for the buyer, which indicates interest in the car. The main thing is that Russia has carried out the whole complex of work from development to implementation, this alone paid off all the costs of SSJ! Forgot how the aircraft industry was killed for 20 years?
    1. avt
      avt 8 June 2016 20: 58
      +2
      Quote: samoletil18
      ! And the plane in the series,

      Does anyone argue? Name it! Speaking of the series - how’s it with DAM’s demand for 30 cars a year by the GSS when they blew yards under 30 rubles, and those with sanctions, oil prices that were not delivered?
      Quote: samoletil18
      foreigners take

      Announce the entire list of please. laughing Do not forget a new, breakthrough into the Irish segment with ONE car, well, for additional benefits, they will descend and still take from those that are in Zhukovsky.
      Quote: samoletil18
      which indicates interest in the car.

      Let me guess - past foreigners say about the interest of a foreign buyer to the Chinese who bought the Boeing, again ordered Iran .... The bus and the Bombardiers are spinning with turboprops, but what about Il-114? When they lifted to the wing and certified and it flies in a small series and when it will fly from Nizhny serially .... made from the backlog of TAPOim Chkalov?
      Quote: samoletil18
      that Russia carried out the whole range of work from development to implementation, one that paid off all the costs of SSJ!

      To whom? Who paid for everything? Top managers from GSS? You read nonsense in the article that laid out here that negative experience is good and that the created team needs to be given money to overcome new heights in the aircraft industry? For such tricks Tupolev, who also had an open account, as Pau is now capitalized, during it with the whole team flew into the sharaga and dope quickly flew out of his head.
      Quote: samoletil18
      Forgot how the aircraft industry was killed for 20 years?

      Who was the real accomplice? Who grabbed the ready-made and certified Tu-334, 204, which SM now wanted to do, but the elbow is close, but you won't bite. An 148 was squeezed by a state order in Vornezh, they were not allowed. All these are competitors of a mediocre machine - Superbudget. And he could not be like that - there are no fools with Boeing's intellectual property, and it was this kind of participation. Restrictions on forcing the engine from the French - what are they? Do you fool your competitors to produce? There was no such breakthrough airplane! So - glamorous greyness. Well, this is obvious to ANYONE who is not biased - after Russia was PROHIBITED to raise its stake in the Airbus concern from 4% to 10-20%, they threw the bone in the form of "cooperation in the market segment." The segment ended up in the form of a shisha - the market for just like that, no one will give it back, but they had a lot of fun with the budget. And everything would be fine. BUT! Sanctions and% with Evro jumped. "Everyone roared like bears ..." Right now, we'll replace the import with the supastat for evil! BUT
      Curb it, crush it! - Just look: There is nothing to fight at the Twenty-seventh, And in the Thirtieth - the generals All are drowned in the well, And the vassals are striving to rebel ..
      Well, thank God there is something to fight, but there’s nothing to fly on - according to Tu-204 CM, cooperation has been destroyed and what did Manturov say about GDP? IL-114, An-140 and Super Budget? wassat Note - TU NO and An 148, which clocked up 500 hours a month and bought the documentation, too.
  • Observer2014
    Observer2014 8 June 2016 12: 47
    +8
    "The MS-21-200 is designed to carry from 132 to 165 passengers, the MS-21-300 is capable of lifting from 163 to 211 passengers on board."
    The most frightening thing is the second digits! They should be banned altogether. Those who are above 180 will understand me. And those who do not understand, try to fit in a chair in three deaths. To hammer a nail in the head, to those who "thinks up" the distance between the seats for midgets to sculpt.
    1. Muvka
      Muvka 8 June 2016 12: 50
      +2
      Quote: Observer2014
      "The MS-21-200 is designed to carry from 132 to 165 passengers, the MS-21-300 is capable of lifting from 163 to 211 passengers on board."
      The most frightening thing is the second digits! They should be banned altogether. Those who are above 180 will understand me. And those who do not understand, try to fit in a chair in three deaths. To hammer a nail in the head, to those who "thinks up" the distance between the seats for midgets to sculpt.

      So it will be longer. Although maybe I misunderstood you ...
    2. Leto
      Leto 8 June 2016 12: 53
      +1
      Quote: Observer2014
      Those who are above 180 will understand me. And who does not understand, in three deaths try to fit in a chair

      Two options, near the emergency exit or in the front row after the business class, in any other way ...
      1. Rader
        Rader 8 June 2016 13: 29
        0
        Quote: Leto
        Quote: Observer2014
        Those who are above 180 will understand me. And who does not understand, in three deaths try to fit in a chair

        Two options, near the emergency exit or in the front row after the business class, in any other way ...

        Uh ... Doesn’t it seem that it’s not enough places (for those over 180)? I sat in place, near the emergency exit only once, and yes, it was convenient. And then it happened by accident! And so, do not ask how much ... Oh, my back and legs still hurt when I remember ... So, as the owner of growth 190, the numbers 165 and 211 passengers strain me the same ...
        1. samoletil18
          samoletil18 8 June 2016 13: 55
          +2
          This is a question for the airlines. They need to charter people, like shove herring into a barrel. With my 176cm is also not ice! Compare comfort on domestic flights and charters.
          1. Observer2014
            Observer2014 8 June 2016 14: 12
            +1
            I'm flying to Moscow on a Boeing 737-800, not in business class. No problem! Back flying that 154 of the same Siberia company. I'll repeat myself. Whoever placed a nail in the head in the last seat is ready to hammer in. It's just genocide. And nothing more And so it happened several times. I already tell the flight attendants. Write on your plane. Only for below 175. And to the point. I ask why you can sit quietly in Boeing?
            1. Alex_59
              Alex_59 8 June 2016 14: 46
              +3
              Quote: Observer2014
              I am flying to Moscow on a Boeing 737-800, not in business class. No problem! Back flying that 154 of the same company "Siberia"

              There is no connection with the type of aircraft. It’s just that Bobik came across to you with a wider step of the chair, but Tupol didn’t. It could be the other way around. I've been flying from Moscow to Perm on the A319 from S7 with the growth of the 176, I sat sideways and rested my knees. But I'm not saying that the A319 is a bad plane. This is a great plane! Just such a layout - a super-economy.
            2. Leto
              Leto 8 June 2016 15: 05
              0
              Quote: Observer2014
              ! Back flying the 154 of the same company "Siberia"

              Siberia Tu-154 were terrible, but thank God they haven’t been flying for many years.
          2. ARES623
            ARES623 8 June 2016 16: 42
            +2
            Quote: samoletil18
            This is a question for the airlines. They need to charter people, like shove herring into a barrel. With my 176cm is also not ice! Compare comfort on domestic flights and charters.

            There are standards for seating on an aircraft, depending on the flight time. But only. No company has the right and will not independently increase the number of seats on board without the manufacturer. He flew on many types of aircraft. With my 179 cm, I felt quite tolerable in the An-24 and Tu-134. SSJ left a pretty decent impression on me. Good or bad - things are completely subjective. Whom my mother gave birth to in Rolls Royce, he will look with disgust at the tags in Russian. And to hammer a nail in Tupolev's head (and to other general designers), I think, is decided by people who are not of great intelligence, in short, immensely stupid, who in life have done nothing more complicated than a ball of cow cake with their own hands. For especially great ones, I will inform you that when you come to check-in (sometimes even when buying a ticket), you can choose seats that are convenient for large growth. I personally succeeded when the need arose. Sorry for the harshness ... painful ...
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    4. Alex_59
      Alex_59 8 June 2016 13: 05
      +4
      Quote: Observer2014
      Those who are above 180 will understand me. And who does not understand, try to fit in the chair in three deaths.
      You talk as if bobby with watermelons in our eerie economy classes are equipped with other salons. This tight layout is the choice of the customer, not the manufacturer. And the customer (airlines) want to carry a lot and expensive for as few flights as possible. If they had been given the right, they would have stuffed us as passengers into our luggage. So the problem here is not with the MS-21, but with wild capitalism. MC-21 is simply forced to make a cabin with a super-economy layout, otherwise airlines will again choose watermelons and bobiks, where such an "Indian bus" layout is offered.
      1. ARES623
        ARES623 8 June 2016 21: 23
        0
        Quote: Alex_59
        You say so, as if the bobiki with watermelons in our terribly economy classes are equipped with other salons. Such a tight arrangement is the choice of the customer, not the manufacturer. And the customer (airline) wants to carry a lot and expensive for the lowest possible number of flights. If they were given the right, they would still push us into the luggage

        According to the current standard, the distance between the seats depends on the conditions of use of the aircraft. If it is used only on local lines, on flights no longer than two hours, the step of the seats in economy class should be at least 750 mm. Does the plane carry out domestic flights lasting more than 2 hours? The minimum distance between the seats must be increased to 780 mm. In business class, the seat pitch in both cases will be 900 mm. There is an easy way to check if air transportation standards are being followed. If you are uncomfortable sitting and you seriously suspect that the company is violating the rules of the layout of the cabin in your favor - just check the step of the seats. To do this, note the two identical points of the two rows of seats (for example, the ends of the armrests, the top of the head restraints, etc.) and measure the distance between them. The data obtained are checked against the standards of the state standard, and in case of non-compliance you can send a letter indicating the violations found to the regulatory authorities. Do not forget that the industry standard of Russia applies only to airlines of this state. And do not need extra snot-yells. You think that you were deceived - demand, assert your rights. You may not achieve complete victory, but there will be satisfaction from the fact that you simply tried, and were not dumb cattle.
        1. Alex_59
          Alex_59 8 June 2016 22: 39
          0
          Quote: ARES623
          According to the current standard, the distance between the seats depends on the conditions of use of the aircraft. If it is used only on local lines, on flights no longer than two hours, the step of the seats in economy class should be at least 750 mm.

          Good idea. I did not think about it, I will remember.
          True, on my flight the flight time to Moscow is 2:05, and back 1:55 (the wind is favorable, such a wind rose). This most likely makes it legal to fit 319 seats on a 28/30 "A156. So I was sitting diagonally in a 30" seat (762 mm).
  • Scoun
    Scoun 8 June 2016 12: 47
    +3
    Despite this, Russia managed to develop a technology superior to the Boeing 787. In particular, it is difficult to believe that this technology relates to carbon fiber - the highlight of the Boeing 787.
    When Boeing and Airbus technologists and specialists visited the AeroComposit-Ulyanovsk aircraft plant and saw the production line with their own eyes, they were extremely surprised: “We did not believe that the plant was capable of this until we saw it ourselves.”
    When the plant director told me about his technologies, I also could not resist and said that I did not believe in it.

    For the guys who did not believe that they work with composites))

    http://rg.ru/2015/07/15/reg-pfo/krylo.html

    Aggregates of composite materials for aircraft today are made by world leaders in the field of aircraft manufacturing - Airbus and Boeing. Aircraft manufacturers use the traditional - autoclave method, when carbon fiber fabric already impregnated with a special composition is laid out on the surface in several layers and placed in the furnace. This technology is quite complex, the process is limited in time.

    At "AeroComposite" they went the other way: they use the method of vacuum infusion. This decision was quite bold: to this day, no one in the world has yet manufactured power structures for civil aircraft in this way. But the developers felt that they should not follow on the heels of Western companies - it would be difficult to catch up with them. And now I managed to stand in at least one row.
    1. Muvka
      Muvka 8 June 2016 12: 52
      0
      I don’t understand anything about this, but is it safe? :)
      1. Leto
        Leto 8 June 2016 13: 00
        0
        Quote: Muvka
        I don’t understand anything about this, but is it safe? :)

        The wings have been made with composites for a long time, and the fuselage, though the autoclave method is very expensive, therefore, is available only to giants. They fly and do not fall apart.
        1. Vadim237
          Vadim237 8 June 2016 13: 48
          0
          The time will come and the entire fuselage will be printed on 3D printers - powder composites.
    2. Leto
      Leto 8 June 2016 12: 58
      -5
      Quote: Scoun
      At "AeroComposite" they went the other way: they use the method of vacuum infusion. This decision was quite bold: to this day, no one in the world has yet manufactured power structures for civil aircraft in this way. But the developers felt that they should not follow on the heels of Western companies - it would be difficult to catch up with them. And now I managed to stand in at least one row.

      You forgot to name the authorship of this technology, Austrian ...
      1. Scoun
        Scoun 8 June 2016 13: 19
        +1
        Quote: Leto
        You forgot to name the authorship of this technology, Austrian ...

        and I honestly didn’t know. It will be necessary to read the thread. Thank.
        Quote: Muvka
        I don’t understand anything about this, but is it safe? :)

        Well, on the dreamliner, they seemed to find a crack ..
        Union of Russian Aircraft Manufacturers
        aviationunion.ru ›news_second.php ...
        Boeing discovered cracks in the wings of the new Dreamliners. In mid-February, the Japanese company Mitsubishi Heavy Industries, producing the wing for the Dreamliner, said ...
        1. Leto
          Leto 8 June 2016 14: 11
          +2
          Quote: Scoun
          and I honestly didn’t know. It will be necessary to read the thread

          Quote: Scoun
          Well, on the dreamliner, they seemed to find a crack ..

          The wings of the MC-21 are made according to the technology of the Austrian company FACC "transfer molding of plastics using vacuum (VaRTM)", while the Japanese make wings for Boeing using a prepreg and an autoclave.
          What's the point. Carbon fiber is poured with polymer to obtain a composite semi-finished product in the form of a web, this is "prepreg". Then, parts are formed from it by folding in several layers and strengthening in an autoclave. The prepreg requires special storage conditions to maintain its performance.
          VaRTM technology consists in the fact that a part is formed from carbon fiber in advance and the fiber is filled with plastic, then the composite is hardened. This is roughly speaking. VaRTM has its own difficulties in washing out carbon fiber and it’s difficult to make large / complex parts. VaRTM Boeing makes only the tail. The FACC Austrians figured out how to make large parts with the help of VaRTM technology without losing quality. The layers of carbon fiber are fixed with thermoplastic which is melted by a laser, thereby the shape which is then filled with polymer is not lost. The part is monolithic and much stronger than the prepregs glued in the autoclave. Therefore, the problems that the Boeing received on the 787 from the MS-21 should not be.
    3. Lt. Air Force stock
      Lt. Air Force stock 8 June 2016 13: 00
      0
      Quote: Scoun
      At "AeroComposite" they went the other way: they use the method of vacuum infusion. This decision was quite bold: to this day, no one in the world has yet manufactured power structures for civil aircraft in this way. But the developers felt that they should not follow on the heels of Western companies - it would be difficult to catch up with them. And now I managed to stand in at least one row.

      It was necessary not only to build wings, but also to build the fuselage from composite materials, the more% of composite materials used in a glider, the easier the aircraft, therefore, less fuel consumption.
      If I am not mistaken, Boeing in their 787 has already begun to introduce composite materials into the fuselage.
      1. Scoun
        Scoun 8 June 2016 13: 14
        +1
        Quote: Lt. air force reserve
        If I am not mistaken, Boeing in their 787 has already begun to introduce composite materials into the fuselage.

        I am far from this topic, but as I understood at first, composites were used in places that did not affect .... how to say it right? (((in general, the integrity of the aircraft and now they trust the composites of the wings (although there are huge loads)) and they began to trust the "tail" and it is the same part of the fuselage. Something like this))) I read this scientific and technical part, but it's hard for me technical language, and indeed tongue-tied me laughing
  • avg-mgn
    avg-mgn 8 June 2016 12: 51
    0
    175 cars - a very serious figure. Even if five years old, anyway. Will there be enough resources? Are the personnel ready and a host of other questions. I do not want to sit in a puddle if the traders did not agree on something with the manufacturer.
  • iliitchitch
    iliitchitch 8 June 2016 12: 51
    -9
    The greatest achievement. We were able to make a PLANE. Where is my Mauser?
    1. Leto
      Leto 8 June 2016 13: 03
      +7
      Quote: iliitch
      The greatest achievement. We were able to make a PLANE. Where is my Mauser?

      You should not sarcasm. The MS-21 is an advanced machine, we did not do anything similar before, the Superjet is a wooden block of the last century compared to it. Not only that, in the world there are only two companies capable of making modern cars A and B, we are returning to the elite club, of course they are not really waiting for us there, but they will have to be considered.
      1. iliitchitch
        iliitchitch 8 June 2016 13: 23
        0
        Quote: Leto
        but they will have to be reckoned with.


        I don’t understand - the President, the Prime Minister, deputy prime ministers and ministers gathered for a PRESENTATION. The fact that this is a thing - I do not argue, why shake something? From this, he will not continue to fly.
      2. Anglorussian
        Anglorussian 8 June 2016 18: 18
        0
        there are only two companies in the world capable of making modern machines A and B
        Four like? (Embraer + Bombardier).
      3. Al1977
        Al1977 9 June 2016 12: 12
        -1
        Quote: Leto
        Not only that, in the world there are only two companies capable of making modern machines A and B,

        And Canadians from Bombardier were written off? They also have a decent market share.
    2. i80186
      i80186 8 June 2016 13: 09
      +2
      Well, the Tu-154 is already 60 years of development. Half a century is still a long time. What other fully civilian medium-range aircraft were produced in our country? Yak-42, again, the development of the 70s. So probably yes, for us this is an achievement.
      1. Vadim237
        Vadim237 8 June 2016 13: 52
        +3
        Now we are waiting for the creation of a wide-body Frigate Ecojet
        1. keeper03
          keeper03 8 June 2016 21: 57
          0
          Yes, it’s time to lift it already on the wing and bring down competitors !!!
          We look here: http://www.frigate-ecojet.ru
          1. avt
            avt 9 June 2016 10: 00
            0
            Quote: keeper03
            Yes, it’s time to lift it already on the wing and bring down competitors !!!

            laughing The first will be overwhelmed by the Superbudget - they will quietly write off the project as a loss, leaving the finished one to finish. If you carefully study the articles of "responsible comrades" on this pre-election presentation of the layout (when they fly a natural airplane into the air and even more so certify, I will not comment - time will tell, but we are lagging behind for sure), then there slipped infa about the creation of a "shortened" modification of the MS -21. Now compare this with those voiced back then, before the withdrawal By strained exclamations about the need to finance a "long", even more mega competitive version of the Superbudget. laughing
        2. wizarden
          wizarden 9 June 2016 22: 06
          0
          Adventure this Frigate. There will be nothing.
    3. andranick
      andranick 8 June 2016 13: 24
      +3
      Yes, an achievement, double!
      We are launching an electrical substation, so the problems are above the roof. Dolb-izm and nonsense of allies, designers and customers just rolls over.
      So yes, to ORGANIZE and FIT production and interaction with subcontractors is ALREADY an achievement. It’s doubly an achievement - because the new product was assembled, using new technologies, not only money was invested, but some person-years of life and soul (what kind of designer doesn’t invest a soul in his brainchild?).
  • Ivan Tucha
    Ivan Tucha 8 June 2016 12: 53
    +2
    I hope it is not as crowded as the airbases and Boeing.
    1. Alex_59
      Alex_59 8 June 2016 13: 10
      0
      Quote: Ivan Tucha
      I hope it is not as crowded as the airbases and Boeing.

      The passage is wider, the ceiling is higher. The seat pitch is determined by the wishes of the customer (airline). On daily flights "Zamkadovsk-Moscow", as usual, there will be economy options with the most dense layout, so do not hope. The grin of capitalism is like that.
      1. Ivan Tucha
        Ivan Tucha 8 June 2016 16: 39
        0
        I just remember that I flew to the seas. sitting is not possible. but I’m only 180 cm tall, and not a big one.
  • salad
    salad 8 June 2016 12: 56
    0
    I read on another resource that this aircraft is equipped with the PRESIDENT-S missile defense system. It would be cool.
  • Engineer
    Engineer 8 June 2016 12: 58
    +5
    A funeral day for a cuckoo in the nest of the domestic aviation industry - Poghosyanjet! Yakovlevites and Irkutsk fellows - Yak-242 \ MS-21 - the first new domestic aircraft after the collapse of the Union. I hope he will be able to supplant the antediluvian Boeing-737 and Erbasiki from our passenger transportation market
  • sgr291158
    sgr291158 8 June 2016 13: 03
    0
    Well, it seems like the domestic aviation industry is being revived
    1. castle
      castle 8 June 2016 14: 16
      -6
      The history of the project began in the mid-70s of the last century. Yak-242. Of course, much has changed since then. And production technology and electronics and engines. The car seems to be great. You can’t hit your face in the mud after so many years of development. Only here are a few questions and perplexities that arose after reading Russian newspapers and magazines.
      1) With what engines does the first car take off? Not at all with the Russians!
      2) How can there be a 100% Russian aircraft if foreign components take place in it?
      3) Equipment (machines and technologies), project software, to put it mildly, not entirely Russian.
      4) How will the after-sales service be provided if the airline is purchased by a foreign (from far abroad) airline? Have you calculated the costs?

      Sources of information -
      http://www.gazeta.ru/army/2016/06/08/8291477.shtml,
      http://izvestia.ru/news/617229
      http://rg.ru/2016/06/08/reg-sibfo/dmitriiu-medvedevu-pokazali-novyj-rossijskij-s
      amolet-ms-21.html
      and many others
  • Wolka
    Wolka 8 June 2016 13: 04
    -3
    I hope the yak-designers finally bothered to equip the airplane with external and internal video recorders, which in case of emergency allows visually to clearly record what actually happened and happens with the airplane in flight, both inside and out ...
    1. Al1977
      Al1977 9 June 2016 12: 18
      +1
      Quote: Volka
      I hope the yak-designers finally bothered to equip the airplane with external and internal video recorders allowing in case of emergency to visually record what actually happened and happens with the airplane in flight, both inside and out

      What should these cameras shoot? Passengers? The backs of the pilots? But what is it outside? There is no such need.
  • Stabilization
    Stabilization 8 June 2016 13: 16
    0
    this is today:

    In the US state of Georgia, two F-16 fighters of the South Carolina National Guard Air Force crashed on Tuesday evening in a mid-air collision, NBC reported.
    1. Muvka
      Muvka 8 June 2016 13: 21
      -3
      Quote: Stabilization
      this is today:

      In the US state of Georgia, two F-16 fighters of the South Carolina National Guard Air Force crashed on Tuesday evening in a mid-air collision, NBC reported.

      This news is more than a week like. Or is it again?
      1. Stabilization
        Stabilization 8 June 2016 13: 36
        0
        Again, this is for today.
      2. ermak.sidorov
        ermak.sidorov 8 June 2016 13: 45
        -1
        It's YET! The guys didn’t seem to have changed at night - it’s dark, and the planes seem to be "invisible" ... well, at least the flyers did not hurt themselves to death (as they say in their eyes). Cheats gravity lately not indifferent to American aircraft ...
  • Dr dron
    Dr dron 8 June 2016 13: 22
    0
    The plane, like an airplane, cares differently about how this project will be implemented by our managers ... Now, even if you raise the Tu-154, due to the high exchange rate, leasing payments for foreign equipment are high and even the old man’s fuel inefficiency is no longer important. Only aeroflot can contact the new Russian technology, as only he has real state support, while other companies cannot afford such luxury. Look at recent events with redwings and a superjet.
  • atamankko
    atamankko 8 June 2016 13: 23
    0
    Russia is the creator of such people.
  • msm
    msm 8 June 2016 13: 32
    -4
    Something I do not like the prefixes "200" and "300". Cargo-200 and cargo-300. Didn't the liberals put their pen to the name of the plane ?! And the rest - hurray!
    1. Genry
      Genry 8 June 2016 14: 24
      0
      See statistics on how many people died at your age and drink poison.
      1. msm
        msm 8 June 2016 14: 42
        -3
        What?! Is Diman so called? Let him take the poison with you.
    2. iwakura
      iwakura 8 June 2016 14: 33
      0
      don't be silly
      labeling is the same as that used by Americans -
      B-737-200, 737-300, etc.
      this is the dimension within the same model of the aircraft (due to the lengthening of the fuselage before and after the wings, without changing other things).
      the longer version takes more passengers, but also takes off heavier and spends more fuel (range less, engine life is also likely to be reduced)
      ps: minus is not mine.
      Europeans just have numbers in a row
      AB-319,320,321
  • Forever so
    Forever so 8 June 2016 14: 09
    +3
    This turns out to replace the TU-154 ?, medium-range. God bless the new aircraft with a high sky and a safe landing. Still, the Voronezh Aircraft Plant revive. Well done Irkutsk !!!
  • GAndr
    GAndr 8 June 2016 14: 25
    +1
    I saw the first pictures with this airplane in booklets back at the MAKS in 1997 ... Then I thought it was a pity of course, but everything, as always, will die out, but no, they did it all the same - GOOD FELLOWS!

    I wonder what kind of louse is minus? And most importantly for what? :)))
    1. The comment was deleted.
    2. ermak.sidorov
      ermak.sidorov 8 June 2016 15: 17
      +1
      Dear, you yourself have already answered your own question - it is a "louse" by nature and is a louse ... it has not gone far from the nit =)
    3. eugene
      eugene 9 June 2016 03: 24
      0
      Don't fight for "+", fight for the truth. I think it will feel better.
  • RuslanNN
    RuslanNN 8 June 2016 14: 25
    +3
    Wait, that can't be. After all, the Russian economy is torn to shreds. What kind of wrong are these Russians. Poor Obama Probably swelled with grief and Validol drinks in batches.
    1. What a
      What a 8 June 2016 14: 44
      +1
      Yes, yes, and according to Kudrin, our country is technologically behind. This one also thumps and grabs Validol, worries bastard for his own (his among strangers).
    2. Vadim237
      Vadim237 8 June 2016 14: 59
      +1
      You can already forget about Obama - in November he will be kicked out of the White House in the ass.
    3. Garris199
      Garris199 8 June 2016 20: 04
      0
      Quote: RuslanNN
      What kind of wrong are these Russians.

      And their country is some kind of wrong gas station. smile
  • iwakura
    iwakura 8 June 2016 15: 22
    +1
    It is not clear what is the advantage of the MS-21 over the same TU-204, which has similar characteristics, and has been in operation for 20+ years, and there are quite modern modifications? The localization there is close to 100%, but no one is running to order Tu-204 in packs, they, as a result, are made a few pieces a year for the government squadron
  • firefighter
    firefighter 8 June 2016 15: 38
    +1
    The bird is smart, necessary, beautiful. And it flies beautifully, as the Great Classic of Aviation said,
  • Paul zewike
    Paul zewike 8 June 2016 16: 01
    +1
    Good news! It will be even better if the engines are only ours.
  • mitrich
    mitrich 8 June 2016 16: 15
    +1
    Install electronic warfare on civilian ships, that's smart! good
    It’s interesting, but if, for all the liners of our airlines, to hang electronic warfare from the budget, in the light of the current situation, I think that security would increase greatly! Why don’t they hang them on SuperJets? Even if it saves one ship in the end, the game is worth the candle.

    PySy: And then the iPhone Maker was noted .... belay It would be better if the clock hands would turn back and forth, there would be almost no harm. recourse
    1. eugene
      eugene 9 June 2016 03: 23
      0
      Anyone can carry a bomb on board, especially in "hot Africa".
      Well ... EW what will it do? EW World's mess is not to win.
  • Pitot
    Pitot 8 June 2016 16: 20
    0
    It’s hard for me to judge - it’s still not connected with the sky. Let's see how this bird will fly .....
  • Tolik_74
    Tolik_74 8 June 2016 16: 28
    +1
    Yankees from Boeing and half-jigsaw from Airbus get nervous
  • Estet59
    Estet59 8 June 2016 16: 36
    +1
    The car is a masterpiece! But there is a question for a purely land. The commander’s control knob is located under the left hand. How convenient is it? Specialists, tell us. And the plane has long trouble-free flights!
  • keeper03
    keeper03 8 June 2016 17: 02
    0
    The news is certainly wonderful and long-awaited for all Russians! But, if it is an airplane of the XNUMXst century, then excuse me, where does it have wingtips (winglets), where does it have an ellipsoidal fuselage section ?!
    I’m silent about the NK-32 engines, the PD-14 is also not bad, but maybe until it is certified, we still put it on the wing and fly in our country?!?
  • Backfire
    Backfire 8 June 2016 17: 04
    +1
    Great news, finally began to make new civilian aircraft.
  • kolexxx
    kolexxx 8 June 2016 17: 06
    -1
    Well done !!! Great success! A qualitatively different plane.
    The government would need to help the project, as the United States does - legally establish that on domestic flights, 95% of the equipment should only be produced. Because the unnecessary abundance of small and medium-sized air carriers provides the basis for Boeing and Airbus to bribe owners and induce them to purchase Western aircraft.
  • KnightRider
    KnightRider 8 June 2016 17: 10
    +4
    Ay Krasava! good Thanks to everyone who created this miracle!
  • ASK505
    ASK505 8 June 2016 17: 31
    +5
    On board the plane, the name of the wonderful aircraft designer Yakovlev. Such events are encouraging, but something else excites. Signs and symbols rule the world, not words or the law. Our life is arranged in such a way that all our thoughts and decisions are formed around symbols and myths - this is a property of human consciousness. It shapes our personalities and our society. This is our matrix, our foundation, our bonds and the connection of time. Without this, we are no one and they call us nothing. Behind us are the legendary KB machines that are known and remembered in the world market: “Yak”, “Il”, “Tu”. This is the heroic work of engineers and specialists, it is our pride and glory. Refusing memory, one’s history, one’s name is a crime. Then why do we continue to read and hear faceless words without a clan and tribe: "PAKFA", "SUPERJET", "MS-21". Change the stars on the Kremlin towers with the Mercedes or Coca-Cola logos, replace the monuments, rename the squares and streets, and the city will gradually begin to lose its face and history. This is all serious, since interception in consciousness begins with interception by symbols. If the control of consciousness is intercepted, then there will be no independence. Why not immediately imagine this beautiful car as the Yak-242? What do you think, forum users
    1. keeper03
      keeper03 8 June 2016 18: 54
      +2
      You are absolutely right !!!
    2. KnightRider
      KnightRider 8 June 2016 19: 47
      0
      Quote: ASK505
      Behind us are the legendary KB machines that are known and remembered in the world market: “Yak”, “Il”, “Tu”. This is the heroic work of engineers and specialists, it is our pride and glory. Refusing memory, one’s history, one’s name is a crime. Then why do we continue to read and hear faceless words without a clan and tribe: "PAKFA", "SUPERJET", "MS-21".

      No one refuses. "PAK FA" - this is short for "Perspective Aviation Complex of Frontline Aviation", a 5th generation fighter developed by the Sukhoi Design Bureau, when it goes into mass production, it will receive the name "Su-XX"(Su-50S, for example)
      SUPERJET is a civilian model of a Sukhoi aircraft - Sukhoi Superjet-100
      MS-21 - "Trunk Aircraft of the 21st century" is a civilian model of a passenger liner from OJSC "NPK Irkut"formed from Yakovlev. The first plane shows their logos.

      Quote: ASK505
      Why not immediately imagine this beautiful car as the Yak-242? What do you think, forum users

      Hello! And what side is the current MS-21 to the Yak-242, which existed only at the outline design level without drawings and deep calculation? When did it start development MS-21? Here is what we know from open sources:
      "October 29, 2010, Aviation Explorer - TsAGI has completed preliminary studies of the characteristics of the air intakes of the MC-21 aircraft engines, which are possible for use in accordance with outline design. The specialists of the aerodynamics department of the Institute’s power plants analyzed the operation of engine air intakes: RB 285-70E (Rolls-Royce), PD-14 (Aviadvigatel OJSC) and PW1000G (Pratt & Whitney). The work was commissioned by OJSC IRKUT and OJSC Aviadvigatel.

      Preliminary design! Those. in 2010, even the design of the aircraft has not begun, i.e. not a single drawing, except for this engine nacelle, existed! And of course, there is not much left of the Yak-242 preliminary design ...
      1. ASK505
        ASK505 8 June 2016 21: 44
        +1
        Let not the Yak-242. The numbers may be different. It is not important. Read carefully. You cannot call a car with letters without a family and tribe, having behind the great names of KB: Tupolev, Yakovlev, which in our aviation history are symbols known to the whole world. Our "partners" in the West will never replace famous brands with a set of letters. Bye!
        1. KnightRider
          KnightRider 8 June 2016 22: 54
          0
          Quote: ASK505
          Let not the Yak-242. The numbers may be different. It is not important. Read carefully. You cannot call a car with letters without a family and tribe, having behind the great names of KB: Tupolev, Yakovlev, which in our aviation history are symbols known to the whole world. Our "partners" in the West will never replace famous brands with a set of letters. Bye!

          I deciphered the meaning of these letters and numbers in a previous post. The first aircraft bears the name of Alexander Sergeevich Yakovlev, on board there is the logo of his design bureau, with the leading participation of which the new aircraft was designed. About what "without clan and tribe" you are talking here is not clear. This is "Yak", and "MS-21" is the designation of the model.
          1. ASK505
            ASK505 9 June 2016 10: 39
            +1
            Please read carefully. We are talking about symbols and traditions that govern consciousness and the world. On board was supposed to be the abbreviation of the legendary "Yak", and not fantasy in giant letters in the form of "MS-21". This is a global tradition tied to serious business. Nobody knows the letters "MC" in the world, and this does not mean anything to a buyer abroad. The ship is launched already with a name. Then they finish building. A person is born, and then he will be presented with a name that he will bring throughout his life, and not with a set of letters and numbers for the maternity hospital in huge letters on a blanket in the hands of a happy dad. The fact that this is a main plane can be said in pursuit after the announcement of the car's native name. The abbreviation "ms" is hammered into the head in huge letters, which does not say anything to the world and Russia. The modest inscription of the designer Yakovlev is not visible. In the same place on Turkish Boeings one can also see inscriptions of various names. So what? This is Boeing. I want to be wrong about this, but this is how they erase the memory and take over the control of consciousness. The name "Lada-Niva" has long been owned by the Americans. We are left with a Lada 4X4. There are doubts that these overseas "partners" also bought the logo "Tu" and "Yak" of civilian vehicles when they destroyed Aviaprom. Therefore, they impose on us all sorts of alien to our hearing "PACKS, SUPERJETS and MSY". You need to think about those who will come after us, about the connection of times and our bonds from the Second World War: the legendary Yak-3,
            Yak-9, Tu-2, IL-2. There are our aviation roots.
            1. iouris
              iouris 10 June 2016 20: 35
              0
              No more non-standard tu, yaks, silts. There are two brands left: Boeing and Airbus.
              The issue of conformity confirmation comes across the US Federal Aviation Administration (FAA), and without them no one can buy a plane.
              You can’t even dream of competitiveness: the problem is a drop in domestic airline traffic. For a country like ours, this has disastrous consequences.
              In general, SSJ is Boeing, and they bought the project in a ruined state, for some reason, in Brazil under a different brand. While the SSJ was being made at Sukhoi's firm, competitors built several variants with higher performance. French engines for SSJ were certified in Europe with a dangerous design and manufacturing defect that persisted: destruction of the impeller of one of the turbine stages.
  • chunga-changa
    chunga-changa 8 June 2016 17: 33
    +1
    Well, great news, it's high time. Good luck to Irkutsk.
  • Ze Kot
    Ze Kot 8 June 2016 18: 26
    +1
    And what about the two versions, with the same amount of fuel and a difference in mass of 7 tons, the difference in flight range is only 100 km?
  • Ilya77
    Ilya77 8 June 2016 21: 00
    +1
    They modestly kept silent that while the engine will be American, because Permians with their PD-14 are lagging behind. This is sad.
    1. KnightRider
      KnightRider 8 June 2016 23: 02
      0
      Quote: Ilya77
      They modestly kept silent that while the engine will be American, because Permians with their PD-14 are lagging behind. This is sad.

      Even when the PD-14 appears, the American will remain in the option. The customer will be able to choose from 2 engines, for example, a Western airline is more profitable than an American one - please ...
      1. Alex_Tug
        Alex_Tug 10 June 2016 08: 34
        0
        Permians catch up, they have a lot of time. 5-7 years.
  • iouris
    iouris 8 June 2016 23: 58
    0
    What are the reasons to consider this car Russian?
    I believe that in order to certify this product, it was necessary to use Boeing CAD, and they are selling far from the most advanced version. Well, American engines are already beyond good and evil.
  • erik cartman
    erik cartman 8 June 2016 23: 59
    0
    Quote: Spartanez300
    Our factory will certainly not remain without work, by the way, recently I saw the MS-21 already circled in the sky. Today at the presentation there were 800 people, including 300 foreigners. Mr. Medvedev was also present with his retinue.

    God grant that your plant works. And the fact that DAM was with his retinue portends trouble. No money, good mood to you :)
  • Governor
    Governor 9 June 2016 01: 47
    +1
    Oh well. Now estimate that now it would fly if the USSR remained alive. You and Lada West already seems to be an interstellar ship.
    And now we wait until these ms21 are made 300 pieces only to the domestic market and the ticket price will be humane. Wangyu - do not wait.
  • Al_lexx
    Al_lexx 9 June 2016 02: 04
    0
    Bursting with pride, for the native KB. Started in it, his labor. Just when preparing for the release of the Yak-141, from which the Americans drew their 35-th penguin. Sobsna, there the main feature was in the rotary nozzle and some circuitry. The penguin's glider is new, although not the fact that it is better than 141.
    And also ... I managed to sit in the cockpit of the British-Helicon SiHarier, who was with us, in the experimental assembly room. )))

    ...
    I would also understand that the Tupolevites, in addition to modernization and reincarnation of the old backlogs ...
    The rest of the aviation brands, it seems, have risen from their knees and the "dominance" of Sukhoi is already in the past.
  • Al_lexx
    Al_lexx 9 June 2016 02: 08
    0
    Quote: KnightRider
    Quote: ASK505
    Let not the Yak-242. The numbers may be different. It is not important. Read carefully. You cannot call a car with letters without a family and tribe, having behind the great names of KB: Tupolev, Yakovlev, which in our aviation history are symbols known to the whole world. Our "partners" in the West will never replace famous brands with a set of letters. Bye!

    I deciphered the meaning of these letters and numbers in a previous post. The first aircraft bears the name of Alexander Sergeevich Yakovlev, on board there is the logo of his design bureau, with the leading participation of which the new aircraft was designed. About what "without clan and tribe" you are talking here is not clear. This is "Yak", and "MS-21" is the designation of the model.

    +1

    This is precisely the YAK that was originally developed in the Design Bureau of A.S. Yakovlev (almost ten years ago) and further, with the assistance of. And makeup, here, is purely for the press and other shkolota.
    I already wrote today in the FB, one young lady, that this is not a proper name for the aircraft, as such, but an advertising campaign in order to increase prestige. illustrious design bureau. And the plane is not rootless, but it’s Yak.
    For the "especially gifted", this is the Yak MS-21.
    All.

    ...
    We are waiting for the short-haul "Yak-BMS-xx". )) In this thread, the yashki were great. I flew both the forty and forty-second. Excellent, minibus and bus, with wings!
    1. Tu-214R
      Tu-214R 9 June 2016 18: 06
      -1
      We are waiting for the short-haul "Yak-BMS-xx". )) In this thread, the yashki were great. I flew both the forty and forty-second. Excellent, minibus and bus, with wings!

      Why is it needed? The short-range niche is occupied by the superjet, they are going to resume the production of IL-114 (so that they can take off / land on the runways from shit like in Bodaibo). There are AN-148, as well as all sorts of Bombardier Canadair there. For what?
  • eugene
    eugene 9 June 2016 02: 20
    0
    "The first word is more precious than the second" So we tried to achieve the truth in childhood.
    The first word of "our" prime minister on the podium during the removal of the MS-21 was ....
    "COOL".... fool
    The level of development is stuck at the level of 13-14 years, but it remained there.
    Ministry of Young Idiots.
  • eugene
    eugene 9 June 2016 02: 54
    +1
    "Meanwhile, Rostec reported that anti-missile protection could be installed on the new liner."
    Do you not notice how "this crazy world" is heading towards the abyss?
    If earlier no one could even think of an attack (attack) on an intercontinental airliner, now everyone is having fun with it, even schoolchildren with laser pointers!
    And this is just one minor of the many signs of planned chaos.
  • eugene
    eugene 9 June 2016 03: 03
    0
    The "glass cockpit" dramatically reduces the amount of information displayed simultaneously. How many instruments were there in the old cabins? I understand, automation, computerization ... that's good. But how to replace more electromechanical devices and their information content in case of emergencies, especially in case of problems with the power supply of the aircraft?
    Dangerous fascination with beauty. Fashion.
    1. Alex_Tug
      Alex_Tug 10 June 2016 08: 30
      0
      For this, there are batteries. The first batch of batteries on the Boeing 787 had to be thrown out. Flamed up.
  • sa-ag
    sa-ag 9 June 2016 07: 17
    +2
    "... The ceremony was attended by Russian Prime Minister Dmitry Medvedev, Deputy Prime Ministers Arkady Dvorkovich and Dmitry Rogozin"

    Bad luck, triple ... :-)
  • qwert
    qwert 9 June 2016 07: 41
    +2
    Than tryndet about possible commercial demand would be better informed about what engines are and how many components of domestic production on the plane. And then to help sell the products of Collins, Pratt & Whitney, Dupont, Mischallin and others is, excuse me, not a reason for pride
  • Ros 56
    Ros 56 9 June 2016 10: 00
    +2
    Well, finally rolled out. In my opinion, they have been ringing about this plane for about ten years, but it's still gone. Previously, even before the tests, the general public did not know anything, but now they probably carried out an axial drawing and it was like talking tomorrow. But by and large, of course, I’m glad that not everyone profiled, we must continue to do so, and in all areas of industry.
  • iouris
    iouris 9 June 2016 10: 28
    +1
    In a country that does not have an aircraft certification system recognized by the US and the EU, it is impossible to produce aircraft without using imported technologies. The aircraft price is determined by the market. The "cheap" MC-21 may be a gift for low-cost airlines, but it is unprofitable for the manufacturer, because how can you make a cheap plane with American engines, French fuel automatics and other components with a "cheap" ruble? Will the deficit be covered by the FIU? This is how economic sanctions look like.
  • demotivator
    demotivator 9 June 2016 10: 46
    +1
    Quote: iouris
    Well, finally rolled out. In my opinion, they have been ringing about this plane for about ten years, but it's still gone.

    That's it, that "rolled out". And what is actually pumped out? Is this a finished car? As announced, the first flight is expected in almost a year - in February 2017. What exactly will happen for 8 months with this liner? Or is it still a layout? So the full-size models were shown in 2011. More recently, in September 2014, Dmitry Rogozin announced that the MC-21 would definitely "make its first flight in April 2016". http://www.ato.ru/content/rogozin-nazval-sroki-poleta-pervogo-ms-21 Now the dates have been rescheduled again. Very similar to the story of the Sukhoi Superjet.
    1. iouris
      iouris 9 June 2016 18: 40
      0
      Be careful, it seems that you violate copyright pranva.
    2. Alex_Tug
      Alex_Tug 10 June 2016 08: 13
      0
      Totally right, waiting for the fate of the superjet.
      To get this piece of paper worked 7 years. Here, work has not yet begun.
  • Tishka
    Tishka 9 June 2016 11: 53
    +1
    As rolled out, and roll! Where did Ily, 86 and 96 go? Who put his paw to the purchase of American scrap! All those who were at the presentation of the new aircraft! And given the lack of leasing in our country, then many companies will simply not be able to buy them, so everything is beautiful on paper, but they forgot about the ravines!
    1. Al1977
      Al1977 9 June 2016 13: 13
      -1
      Quote: Silence
      As rolled out, and roll! Where did Ily, 86 and 96 go? Who put his paw to the purchase of American scrap! All those who were at the presentation of the new aircraft! And given the lack of leasing in our country, then many companies will simply not be able to buy them, so everything is beautiful on paper, but they forgot about the ravines!

      Here: http: //www.ato.ru/content/sravnenie-ekspluatacionnoy-ekonomiki-il-96-300-ib
      oeing-767-300-na-opyte-aeroflota
      If you are too lazy to read, a brief summary:
      "To service the Moscow-Seoul route with a passenger traffic of 100 thousand people a year, the airline needs either two Il-96s or one Boeing 767. Then, for flights on the Il-96, it will need to employ 44 flight specialists, and on a western plane, only 14 pilots. The domestic aircraft will consume 16 thousand tons more fuel, which means additional expenses for the airline in the amount of 9,5 million dollars (the calculation was made in March, when the average price per ton of fuel reached 592,6 dollars). expenses for flight support (air navigation, airport taxes, crew salaries) will amount to $ 1,87 million - again not in favor of the IL-96. On the other hand, under the item "Maintenance of the aircraft in good condition, leasing payments and maintenance of flight technical personnel "the western plane will be more expensive than the Il-96 by 4,9 million dollars a year. However, one should pay attention to the fact that this difference in favor of the Il-96 arose due to its" old age ": the period of depreciation deductions for Il- 96 is almost expired.
      As a result, when summing up all expense items, it turns out that on the Moscow-Seoul route, transportation is 100 thousand passengers. the IL-96 will cost the airline $ 6,5 million a year more expensive than the Boeing 767. If we compare the new IL-96 and Boeing 767 (even taking into account state subsidies for customs payments), this difference will increase.