Irkutsk aircraft manufacturers introduced a new passenger aircraft MS-21

A presentation of a new medium-haul passenger aircraft MC-21-300 took place at the Irkutsk Aviation Plant, a correspondent reported RIA News from the scene.

“Russian Prime Minister Dmitry Medvedev, Deputy Prime Ministers Arkady Dvorkovich and Dmitry Rogozin, Industry and Commerce Minister Denis Manturov, as well as President of the MS-21 development company, Irkut Corporation Oleg Demchenko, took part in the ceremony of rolling out the aircraft, - said in a statement.

“A few years ago we decided to make a plane that will take a worthy place in the global aviation market. We are confident that MC-21 will be the best in its class. Today I want to thank the designers, engineers, workers, managers of enterprises - we have invested in the aircraft not only the most advanced technical solutions, but also invested our whole soul, ”said the head of the company.

According to him, "rolling out the aircraft is only the beginning." “The first flight of the MC-21-300 will be based on the results of ground testing at the flight test station while it is scheduled for December 2016 - February 2017 of the year. The first delivery of the aircraft to the customer is scheduled for the end of 2018, ”he said.



“The MC-21 family of aircraft is focused on the most capacious segment of the global aviation market. The composite wing of high elongation, the increased diameter of the fuselage, engines and systems of the latest generation can reduce operating costs, increase comfort for passengers and meet the requirements of promising standards for environmental impact, ”the company said.

According to the developers, “MC-21 will give airlines the opportunity to shorten the turnaround time at the airport by 20% - a wide central aisle and pivot-type luggage racks allow passengers to quickly and conveniently board and disembark.”

It is noted that the liner family includes two models: “MC-21-200 is designed to carry from 132 to 165 passengers, MC-21-300 is able to lift aboard from 163 to 211 passengers”.

Irkut already has “firm orders for 175 liners,” including and from Aeroflot, which ordered 50 aircraft.

Meanwhile, Rostec reported that a new airliner could be equipped with anti-missile defense.

According to the press service of the corporation, the installation of the on-board defense complex "President-S" plans to take up the concern "Radio-Electronic Technologies". "

The company also noted that civil aircraft are already partially equipped with antimissile defense.

According to the adviser to the deputy general director of the concern, Vladimir Mikheev, the enterprise “has already begun to develop a new integrated avionics-based complex of onboard equipment, which, first of all, will be designed for the new medium-haul aircraft MS-21-300”.

Comments

[Spartanez300]

Our factory will certainly not remain without work, by the way, recently I saw the MS-21 already circled in the sky. Today at the presentation there were 800 people, including 300 foreigners. Mr. Medvedev was also present with his retinue.

[Muvka]

Quote: Spartanez300

Our factory will certainly not remain without work, by the way, recently I saw the MS-21 was already circled in the sky. Today at the presentation there were 800 people, including 300 foreigners.

The first flight only at the end of this year. So far, only the engine on the IL-76 was run in the sky.

[CORNET]

I hope rockets can be suspended from him ....?

[oldseaman1957]

Quote: CORNET

I hope rockets can be suspended from him ....?

- Rockets have something to hang! But we have almost nothing to carry passengers! And the military enterprise "IRKUT", in their own words, "with great joy" started the construction and production of RUSSIAN civilian passenger liners. Good luck!

[firefighter]

Yeah! And we have all the harvesters with vertical take-off! What for??? civilian aircraft for internal rocket lines? Kear - Caesarean ... And the right bird. And kraaaaaava!

[Alexy]

Read the text. No one is going to hang rockets. Missile defense is not rockets.

[Dormidont2]

it's about hanging kr Caliber

[Mahmut]

Engine position too low. Not every lane will accept such a plane.

[Besmaster]

Actually, that was the answer to this post. And here is the text of the article?

Quote: CORNET

I hope rockets can be suspended from him ....?

[Dormidont2]

like IL96 they want to upgrade and release, they came to their senses when the Boeing 787 is already flying, it was necessary to develop a long-range aircraft together with ms 21, or to make composite wings-tail plus a new pd96 engine for IL18 and it will be possible to replace long-range air-basses

[Dormidont2]

I remember neDimon went as a presom in the United States to buy 5 lard Boeing

[Lt. Air Force stock]

Quote: Dormidont2

to develop a long-range aircraft,

In cooperation with the Chinese, we will build a long-range aircraft. The problem is that big planes are not particularly needed right now. On the A380, there are only 300 orders, in recent years they no longer arrive. At 747-8, there are also practically no orders for 2-3 aircraft per year.
Russia needs to build a long-range aircraft, with the number of passengers 300-350 and a range of 14000-15000 kilometers.
Most likely the Boeing will produce only 737MAX, 787, and 777 (there are practically no orders for 767, and why is it needed when there are 787).
As for Airbus, they will produce А320NEO, А330NEO, А350, and for some time А380, the market for large aircraft is rather small; for short-haul aircraft, there are orders for 2500 aircraft, and as I wrote above about A380, there are about 300 orders in total.
Russia needs an airplane something similar to the A350 and Boeing 787. As an option, it is possible to design on the basis of the MC21, but powerful engines with a thrust of more than 30 tons are needed, if the PD-14 is not mistaken, the thrust is 17,5 tons, and the most powerful engines in the USSR did in Ukraine, the D-18T with a thrust of 23,5 tons, but they are already quite old, voracious and not powerful enough.
If I am not mistaken on a Boeing 777, the thrust of one engine is 57 tons.

[Skifotavr]

Quote: Lt. Air Force stock

In cooperation with the Chinese, we will build a long-range aircraft.

Unless on the principle: brains from Russia + technology transfer, and money from the Chinese. Like the Russian-Indian anti-ship missile Bramos. In my opinion this is a very dubious investment. Although maybe I'm wrong ... Ukraine, from poverty in general, is distributing aviation and missile technologies to the left and right for nothing.

[Skifotavr]

I also don’t understand why the Russian government itself offered the Chinese to create a heavy helicopter together. After all, this means that Russia will create, and transfer to the Chinese and also train their designers. In addition, in the 70s they already saw their gratitude for such "gifts from the white gods."

[hunt1]

it is called will be integrated into the world of those. chains on the sidelines. Kudrin to help you there are many such tips.

[Lt. Air Force stock]

Quote: Skifotavr

Unless on the principle: brains from Russia + technology transfer, and money from the Chinese.

I wonder what happens, and what the airplane will look like. It will be an A350 / 787 or rather a big Boeing 777. In any case, it is unlikely to be a four-engine aircraft.

[Skifotavr]

Quote: Lt. Air Force stock

I wonder what happens, and what the airplane will look like. It will be an A350 / 787 or rather a big Boeing 777. In any case, it is unlikely to be a four-engine aircraft.

You yourself correctly noted that for a twin-engine, Russia does not yet have such engines. Unless they decide to buy western ones. To be honest, I am very skeptical of any joint projects between Russia and China. China is a very difficult, arrogant and unreliable partner, and besides, there’s nothing good to take from it. Only he intends to take. He seemed to have succeeded in electronics - but the electronic components that he sold to Russia in quality were worthless.

[Lt. Air Force stock]

Quote: Skifotavr

You yourself correctly noted that for a twin-engine, Russia does not yet have such engines. Unless they decide to buy western ones. To be honest, I am very skeptical of any joint projects between Russia and China. China is a very difficult, arrogant and unreliable partner, and besides, there’s nothing good to take from it. Only he intends to take. He seemed to have succeeded in electronics - but the electronic components that he sold to Russia in quality were worthless.

Well, if you look at other international projects, for example, the 5th generation Russian-Indian aircraft, and the multi-purpose transport aircraft (MTS) project, then in practice this is a one-goal game. The Indians do not participate in the development.
The transport project is frozen, and we create PakFa ourselves, we will naturally sell the export version to them.
As for the engine with high thrust, they say that on the basis of PD-14 you can create an engine with a thrust of 30-35 tons by installing a larger gas generator, this thrust is enough to build a competitor A-350/787, but if we take a swing at 777, then there is much more traction needs more than 50 tons.

[Skifotavr]

Quote: Lt. Air Force stock

Well, if you look at other international projects, for example, the 5th generation Russian-Indian aircraft, and the multi-purpose transport aircraft (MTS) project, then in practice this is a one-goal game. The Indians do not participate in the development.
The transport project is frozen, and we create PakFa ourselves, we will naturally sell the export version to them.
As for the engine with high thrust, they say that on the basis of PD-14 you can create an engine with a thrust of 30-35 tons by installing a larger gas generator, this thrust is enough to build a competitor A-350/787, but if we take a swing at 777, then there is much more traction needs more than 50 tons.

Yes, I recall that about PD-14 I read somewhere that in the future much more powerful versions can be created on the basis of it. But you obviously made a mistake about the engine draft of the Boeing 777 of 57 tons - the total power of the 777 cannot be greater than that of Ruslan. As for the joint project with China, I simply do not know. If it really is beneficial to Russia and it does not lose anything from this, then it’s good. And I did not believe in a fifth-generation fighter project with India from the very beginning. They are generally very moody and do not know what they need, but they are terribly corrupt, which leaves its mark on cooperation with them.

[Lt. Air Force stock]

Quote: Skifotavr

But you obviously made a mistake about the engine draft of the Boeing 777 of 57 tons - the total power of the 777 cannot be greater than that of Ruslan.

The GE90-115B has a thrust of 510 kN, which is 57 tons.
https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_777

[adept666]

and 510 kN, it is 57 tons.

514 kN and this is 52,4 tons of thrust in normal operation, while in emergency mode during the engine race it pumped up to 568.9 kN = 57,92 tons, but this way it can work for a short time and only at the stand.

[Skifotavr]

Quote: Lt. Air Force stock

The GE90-115B has a thrust of 510 kN, which is 57 tons.
https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_777

Perhaps you were right. By the way, I didn’t set you a minus.

[adept666]

But you obviously made a mistake about the engine draft of the Boeing 777 of 57 tons

In test mode, it reached such values ​​of 57,92 tons of thrust, in normal mode, 52,4 in maximum / take-off mode.

- 777 cannot have a total thrust greater than that of Ruslan.

Yes? Hmm ... why?

[Skifotavr]

Quote: adept666

But you obviously made a mistake about the engine draft of the Boeing 777 of 57 tons

In test mode, it reached such values ​​of 57,92 tons of thrust, in normal mode, 52,4 in maximum / take-off mode.

- 777 cannot have a total thrust greater than that of Ruslan.

Yes? Hmm ... why?

I proceeded from the fact that Ruslan is still an airplane of a different dimension, purpose and carrying capacity. And judging by the video, his running distance is not very large. I don’t know, maybe I'm wrong. Honestly, I did not suspect that the power of the engines of the latest modifications of the Boeing 777 reaches such values.

[adept666]

I proceeded from the fact that Ruslan is still a plane of a different dimension

777-300ER (namely, the designated engines are installed on it) ---------------
Length: 73,9 m, Height: 18,7 Wingspan: 64,8 Max. weight: 351 534 kg
An-124 ----------------------------------------------- ------
Length 69,1, Height 21,08, Wingspan 73,3 Max. weight: 392 kg.
Those. the planes are very close Ruslan shorter by 4,8 meters, 2,38 higher and has 8,5 meters more wingspan (and wing profile: area larger), due to which it also wins somewhat in carrying capacity with lower total engine power.

Honestly, I did not suspect that the power of the engines of the latest modifications of the Boeing 777 reaches such values.

Not at all, but only at 777-300ER.

[Skifotavr]

The cargo modification of the Boeing-777 with engines of approximately 48 tons has a carrying capacity of 103 tons, and the carrying capacity of the base modification of the An-124-100 is 120 tons, and the An-124-100M-150 modernized by Antonov, but with the same engines is already 150 tons ... So the difference is very significant.

[adept666]

Boeing-777 with engines of about 48 tons has a carrying capacity of 103 ... of the base modification of An-124-100 - 120 tons, and the An-124-100M-150 modernized by Antonov, but with the same engines already 150 tons.

So think about where the reserve of 30 tons came from with the same total thrust. Purely theoretically, the 777F could have pulled even more off the ground, but its chassis and fuselage are not designed for such loads (it’s not a clean transporter because it has left the passenger modification), but it has 103 tons due to the engine’s power reserve and their economy (a large degree of bypass) can transport over a distance of 9040 km (with higher cruising and maximum speeds), the same modernized Antonov 120 tons to 5400, which, as it were, hints that if he strengthened the fuselage and chassis of the Boeing, he would have comparable transport characteristics at two engines, greater range and speed

[Skifotavr]

Quote: adept666

So think about where the reserve of 30 tons came from with the same total thrust. Purely theoretically, the 777F could pull even more off the ground, but its chassis and fuselage are not designed for such loads (it’s not a clean transporter because it got out of the passenger modification), but it has 103 tons due to the engine’s power reserve and their economy (a large degree of bypass) can transport to a distance of 9040 km (with higher cruising and maximum speeds), the same modernized Antonov 120 tons at 5400, which, as it were, hints that if he strengthened the fuselage and the Boeing’s chassis, he would have comparable transport characteristics at two engines, greater range and speed

Yes, I understand that, just on these aircraft the maximum engine power is used only on takeoff. So I was surprised - why did Boeing, which was not designed for such a load as that of Ruslan, have such power. In military transport aviation, there is now a fashion to equip them with more powerful engines to ensure a short take-off. But for the passenger 777, such a task did not seem to be set - in the west, airports have no problems with the length and quality of the runway.

[Skifotavr]

I found here that the thrust of the Boeing 777-200 engine is 33,6 tons.

[cast iron]

Judging by the prices set by the Russian capitalists for air tickets and railway transport, the Russians will soon be sitting at home in large numbers and not going anywhere - it is painfully expensive. So long-range and other aircraft will not be needed)))

[Skifotavr]

Quote: cast iron

Judging by the prices set by the Russian capitalists for air tickets and railway transport, the Russians will soon be sitting at home in large numbers and not going anywhere - it is painfully expensive. So long-range and other aircraft will not be needed)))

So the capitalists will have to change their mind

[Al1977]

Quote: Lt. air force reserve

Russia needs to build a long-range aircraft, with the number of passengers 300-350 and a range of 14000-15000 kilometers.

Tell us, where would you, as the Director of the Airline, deliver this aircraft and ensure its loading?

[Lt. Air Force stock]

Quote: Al1977

Tell us, where would you, as the Director of the Airline, deliver this aircraft and ensure its loading?

Flights to North America, South America, Asia, Cuba, South Africa. Aeroflot uses the A-330 for these purposes, the 777+ has ordered the A350. And we do not have a modern analogue.

[Al1977]

Quote: Lt. Air Force stock

Quote: Al1977

Tell us, where would you, as the Director of the Airline, deliver this aircraft and ensure its loading?

Flights to North America, South America, Asia, Cuba, South Africa. Aeroflot uses the A-330 for these purposes, the 777+ has ordered the A350. And we do not have a modern analogue.

Quote: Lt. Air Force stock

Quote: Al1977

Tell us, where would you, as the Director of the Airline, deliver this aircraft and ensure its loading?

Flights to North America, South America, Asia, Cuba, South Africa. Aeroflot uses the A-330 for these purposes, the 777+ has ordered the A350. And we do not have a modern analogue.

I’m not talking about which countries are far from us, but about the fact that loading in those directions is not such as to spend billions on a new plane. How many Aeroflot will buy planes for flights to the USA? 2-3-4? Or 200 pcs?
All the same, I repeat the question, is there a demand for long-distance flights ????
Many Russians fly to the USA, or Singapore, or Tokyo?

[Alex_Tug]

The states are always full load. In principle, Singapore, Tokyo and the states would fly people, there would be money and visa availability. But the tourist routes to Vietnam or Thailand are always in demand. And now they fly to Moscow from Vladivostok via China (by Chinese airlines). So cheaper.

[Al1977]

Quote: Dormidont2

ado was with ms 21 to develop a long-range aircraft,

Is this for those who will fly over the "Far Eastern hectare"?
The largest share of traffic is 1000-3000 km. with loading of 100-150 passengers.
Aeroflot refuses 777, Transaerov 747 returns, now our people do not fly to the Dominican Republic and Mexico, and will not fly soon. But in Vladik and back, it’s not the biggest load, and a few 767 can quite cope with this.

[xetai9977]

Today our sites have published - "The Russian leasing company Ilyushin Finance" plans today to conclude an agreement of intent for the supply of MC-21 aircraft with the national air carrier of Azerbaijan AZAL (Azerbaijan Airlines), a source in the air circles told TASS on the sidelines of the presentation of the MC-21 aircraft. 10. Day.Az reports with reference to Trend that the contract will be signed for the supply of XNUMX aircraft, he did not specify the delivery dates.

The intention to sign a contract with AZAL today was confirmed to journalists by the general director of Ilyushin Finance Co. (IFC) Alexander Rubtsov. He specified that it would be an agreement of intent, but he did not comment on the volume of supplies. "

[valerei]

Well, in Soviet times, passengers always followed the military, so the tradition remains. One thing is a pity that our famous names are not used: TU, YAK, AN, IL, etc. What is MS-21? He says nothing to anyone, especially all sorts of "superjets". So: As you name the ship - so it will fly, in the sense of the world.

[Stirbjorn]

Quote: CORNET

I hope rockets can be suspended from him ....?

Is it really MIKHAN ?!

[Michelangelo]

To such aircraft, only the great Ukrainians thought of hanging rockets

[Lt. Air Force stock]

Quote: Mikelanjelo

To such aircraft, only the great Ukrainians thought of hanging rockets

Not only USA Harpoons hang on P-8

[Dormidont2]

on ms21 we hang x101

[Muvka]

Quote: Lt. Air Force stock

Quote: Mikelanjelo

To such aircraft, only the great Ukrainians thought of hanging rockets

Not only USA Harpoons hang on P-8

This is not like a passenger? Or am I confusing something? It’s just that Il-76 can also bomb us.

[Lt. Air Force stock]

Quote: Muvka

This is not like a passenger? Or am I confusing something? It’s just that Il-76 can also bomb us.

R-8 is based on the Boeing 737.

[Muvka]

Quote: Lt. Air Force stock

Quote: Muvka

This is not like a passenger? Or am I confusing something? It’s just that Il-76 can also bomb us.

R-8 is based on the Boeing 737.

But this is not a Boeing 737, right? You are comparing a military plane to a civilian one and you want it to drop bombs. And I gave you a similar example. That's all.

[Dormidont2]

Americans in the fuselage of Kyrgyz transport workers carry

[Skifotavr]

Quote: Mikelanjelo

To such aircraft, only the great Ukrainians thought of hanging rockets

Stop already Antonov KB with ukrami mix. This is a very serious design bureau. And when trolls who are not versed in aviation write any diarrhea nonsense about him, they only show that they are no different from galloping ukroheroev-maydauns. In advance I will say that I will not enter into a polemic with you about what a cool Superjet-100 is and how wretchedly everything is "hokhol", because it makes no sense.

[user]

Finish already Antonov Design Bureau with ukrami mix. This is a very serious KB. And when all the diarrheal trolls write about him about diarrhea nonsense, they only show that they are no different from the jumping ukroheroev-maydaunov.

Well, if you have been on the site for a long time, you could have repeatedly been convinced that Antonov’s design bureau doesn’t mix anything with anyone and they take it seriously. Well, if someone was laughing at great ukrov, it happens, there’s just a lot of reason for this lately. Although the immediate prospects for KB (personally for me) are depressing, plus the loss of a partner in the face of the Russian Federation in the competition with Boing and Airbas. And what is the loss of the Russian market?
As for the MC-21, our country tried to the end to maintain cooperation with Antonov Design Bureau and only after a number of failed projects did they start to do their projects (the next is the Il-114 or a similar project), which is not economically profitable (taking into account previously invested funds) and the most The main thing is time, as the fleet is aging rapidly.

[Skifotavr]

Quote: user

Well, if you have been on the site for a long time, you could have repeatedly been convinced that Antonov’s design bureau doesn’t mix anything with anyone and they take it seriously. Well, if someone was laughing at great ukrov, it happens, there’s just a lot of reason for this lately. Although the immediate prospects for KB (personally for me) are depressing, plus the loss of a partner in the face of the Russian Federation in the competition with Boing and Airbas. And what is the loss of the Russian market?
As for the MC-21, our country tried to the end to maintain cooperation with Antonov Design Bureau and only after a number of failed projects did they start to do their projects (the next is the Il-114 or a similar project), which is not economically profitable (taking into account previously invested funds) and the most The main thing is time, as the fleet is aging rapidly.

I agree with you on everything. I am not against rudeness against ukrov. It's just that Antonov’s design bureau has nothing to do with it, although he really has no future in an independent one. I am very sorry that it was created in Ukraine, and not in Russia. But here’s the paradox: Antonov’s design bureau is in better condition today than most Russian aviation design bureaus. The thing is that in Russia they were deliberately destroyed by burry liberals, and the ukrovlast authorities simply did not pay any attention to the Ukrainian bureau, which was no longer Russian, which meant it was not so important to destroy it.

[oborzevatel]

Quote: CORNET

I hope rockets can be suspended from him ....?

I would advise where exactly You missiles story, my dear, but do not appreciate sarcasm ...

[Appraiser]

If necessary, you can hang anything, and not just rockets. The main thing is that they start production. It is necessary to create competition for foreign companies in the domestic air transportation market

[Marsblade]

It’s necessary not only to compete, it is always necessary to set super tasks - it is necessary to force them out of the market at war ...

[Bayonet]

Quote: MarsBlade

It’s necessary not only to compete, it is always necessary to set super tasks - it is necessary to force them out of the market at war ...

The car has never flown before, and the engines on what the American rolled out. By 2020, they plan to enter the production of 40 pieces per year. That's it - competitors are gone.
We will see ...

[sa-ag]

Quote: Bayonet

engines on what the American rolled out

and whose avionics is there?

[Bykov.]

Quote: CORNET

I hope rockets can be suspended from him ....?

After all, it’s clear that the man joked for joy, and you came across a bunch of dislikes to him. Oh, you evil.

[Spartanez300]

Judging by the outlines, it was the MS-21 has not yet been painted and it flew a little winding circles over the city, what kind of a plane it could be if not the MS-21 we are collecting other airliners.

[Lt. Air Force stock]

Climbed the entire network, and did not find fuel efficiency data in comparison with the A320NEO and Boeing 737MAX ...

[Stas157]

Quote: Lt. air force reserve

Climbed the entire network, and did not find fuel efficiency data in comparison with the A320NEO and Boeing 737MAX ...

The flight range with maximum load, with all comparable characteristics, the A320NEO is 500 km higher, and the Boeing 737MAKS is 650 km higher, which suggests that competitors are more economical. I would be glad to make a mistake, if that, correct. By the way, the Chinese C919 has a range of 500 km lower than ours! But then the plane is from a past generation.
Again, like the superjet, the MS-21-300 does not have winglets that reduce consumption, although they finally promised to put them on the superjet due to the demand of the European buyer City Jet.

[Arikkhab]

and winglets (by themselves) increase the range by 500 km, all other things being equal?

[Stas157]

Quote: ArikKhab

and winglets (by themselves) increase the range by 500 km, all other things being equal?

Do not be so straightforward! Range depends on many parameters. Neither winglets nor the new LEAP-919C engine help the Chinese S-1!
Winglets are considered as a way to reduce the inductive resistance of the wing. Accordingly, they affect profitability. Range and efficiency are related concepts, a more economical aircraft can, with the same characteristics, fly further away.

[Arikkhab]

I'm not straightforward at all. why do I need winglets. as well as the fact that they themselves improve fuel consumption at best by 5-7 percent (the use of winglets in the modernization of the Gulfstream II business aircraft in 1991 allowed to reduce fuel consumption by 7% according to the manufacturer - and this is a good result) which (understandably) does not automatically lead to an increase in range by the same 5%, that is, getting an increase of 500 km on a medium-haul airliner (with the same take-off weight, engines and wing profile) is very cool. another question is that during modernization, aircraft receive a new wing (with winglets) and other engines ...

[Stas157]

Quote: ArikKhab

I'm not straightforward at all. why do I need winglets.

If you know, why ask? You decided to test me for knowledge? If you know more, you'd better just express your point of view.

[Lt. Air Force stock]

Quote: Stas157

By the way, the Chinese C919 has a range of 500 km lower than ours! But then the plane is from a past generation.

It seems to me that the Chinese are primarily producing for their market, they need more than 1000 aircraft for such an aircraft, and they are building for themselves. All the same, we sell for export, but I didn’t hear something to sell for export.
By the way, there are already 919 orders on the C517.

[Muvka]

Quote: Stas157

Quote: Lt. air force reserve

Climbed the entire network, and did not find fuel efficiency data in comparison with the A320NEO and Boeing 737MAX ...

The flight range with maximum load, with all comparable characteristics, the A320NEO is 500 km higher, and the Boeing 737MAKS is 650 km higher, which suggests that competitors are more economical. I would be glad to make a mistake, if that, correct. By the way, the Chinese C919 has a range of 500 km lower than ours! But then the plane is from a past generation.
Again, like the superjet, the MS-21-300 does not have winglets that reduce consumption, although they finally promised to put them on the superjet due to the demand of the European buyer City Jet.

So, for the sake of interest, are you aware that the weight of fuel in the airbus is 26730 kg, and in the MC-21 - 20400?

[Stas157]

Quote: Muvka

So, for the sake of interest, are you aware that the weight of fuel in the airbus is 26730 kg, and in the MC-21 - 20400?

If there is more fuel in the airbus, it means it is lighter than the MS-21, and the MS-21 turns out to be overweight, though it's hard to imagine, but let's see the numbers:
The maximum take-off on the MS-21 is 79,25 tons, and the A320 NEO is 79 tons, while the airbus takes, according to your words, 6 tons more fuel! Like it or not, but the airbus is more economical. But, I would like a refutation!

[Muvka]

Quote: Stas157

Quote: Muvka

So, for the sake of interest, are you aware that the weight of fuel in the airbus is 26730 kg, and in the MC-21 - 20400?

If there is more fuel in the airbus, it means it is lighter than the MS-21, and the MS-21 turns out to be overweight, though it's hard to imagine, but let's see the numbers:
The maximum take-off on the MS-21 is 79,25 tons, and the A320 NEO is 79 tons, while the airbus takes, according to your words, 6 tons more fuel! Like it or not, but the airbus is more economical. But, I would like a refutation!

In addition to the mass of fuel, the mass of the aircraft and passengers, there is also the concept of baggage. At MS-21, it is 22,6 tons, if I understand correctly. Is there any bass data? It should also be borne in mind that the MS has the widest fuselage in the class, which is reflected in the weight of the aircraft and the convenience of passengers (more space). I was wrong about the fuel. In the MC-21 it turns out about 25000 liters, and in the airbase it is 26730. I didn’t notice that in one place there are kg, in another liter) So it’s about the same. On the other hand, the table may show the parameters with American engines, and not with PD-14. For until relatively recently, nothing was heard about it ... And you also need to consider that the maximum weight of the MS refers to the capacity of 211 passengers, and the airbus to 189, which makes a difference of 1,5 tons somewhere. I just don’t know what average weight is taken there)

[viktorrymar]

Quote: Stas157

Again, like the superjet, the MS-21-300 does not have winglets that reduce consumption, although they finally promised to put them on the superjet due to the demand of the European buyer City Jet.

City Jet has already received the first with SSj100 without winglets and put into operation.

http://sdelanounas.ru/blogs/78809/

[Alex_Tug]

Funny you guys.
Put winglets on a superjet:
1) buy a license for winglets
2) recycle the wing
3) alterations in software
4) test redone software
5) get a European Commission certificate (like a new plane)
Total work of the year by 3.

[Muvka]

Quote: Lt. Air Force stock

Climbed the entire network, and did not find fuel efficiency data in comparison with the A320NEO and Boeing 737MAX ...

Compare maximum fuel weight and range. MS-21 - 20400 at 6000 km, for the A320NEO - 26730 at 6500 km. Satisfied with such efficiency?

[Alex_Tug]

You have a conversation about nothing. The flight range depends on the flight mode (LRC, Max end, Max spd, Manual) and the quality of the aircraft software. The range is considered by computers based on the number of fuel and flight mode. 6000 or 6500 is the result of the operation of on-board computers, and not the declared characteristics on paper. Moreover, there is no data on software for the MS-21.

[Alex_59]

Quote: Spartanez300

he flew a little winding circles over the city

Moreover, not him. So that on the first assembled car in the first flight, but over the city it is "too low" to wind circles ...

[Muvka]

Quote: Spartanez300

Judging by the outlines, it was the MS-21 has not yet been painted and it flew a little winding circles over the city, what kind of a plane it could be if not the MS-21 we are collecting other airliners.

At a minimum, besides you, there was another person on another forum who said that he had seen this plane winding circles. Well, if that is so - that's great! Here's a quote: Like a shovel, the plane took off, and more than once, circled for at least a couple of weeks over Irkutsk land, I live near the test routes of the aircraft factory, so uh, you are respected, categorically and evil! umnik.gif

[kostella85]

This is a computer presentation watched)

[Dormidont2]

in Irkutsk? next time, take it off at least on the phone, it will be interesting for everyone to see if the plane is handsome, though the designer needs to tear his hands off because the tail-wing is painted with blue paint, it seems that without the tail the plane seems to be again intriguing liberoids

[Bayonet]

Quote: Spartanez300

Judging by the outlines, it was the MS-21 has not yet been painted and it flew a little winding circles over the city, what kind of a plane it could be if not the MS-21 we are collecting other airliners.

Yesterday, 05:43. The first flight of the Russian aircraft MS-21 is scheduled for the end of 2016. The first flight of the short-medium-range passenger aircraft MS-21 will take place between December 2016 and February 2017.

[avt]

Quote: Muvka

The first flight only at the end of this year.

Competitors ARE already in the air, late. Well, again, solemn chants to capture as much as 10% of the market

Quote: SSI

And the motors, I see, General Electric?

Well, this is normal, especially with the prospect of a foreign market, this is not the time of the USSR, today it’s not enough to go out on its own. So

Quote: i80186

the presence of two alternative power plants - with Russian engines PD-14 or American Pratt & Whitney PW1400G.

in this particular case, it’s a plus.

[Lt. Air Force stock]

Quote: avt

Well, this is normal, especially with the prospect of a foreign market, this is not the time of the USSR, today it’s not enough to go out on its own. So

By the way, the Chinese will also install imported engines on their Comac S919, most likely they will buy a license and establish a full production cycle in China.

[Muvka]

2 months is a long time? And the Chinese did not fly at all.

[saturn.mmm]

Quote: avt

Well, again, solemn chants to capture as much as 10% of the market

With such a presentation, you can lose the market altogether, I won’t think of writing the entire MS-21 fuselage in big letters (see for the visually impaired), and even paint the tail in blue and present it in blue, it seemed that the plane had no tail, the presentation began it was wonderful with the cartoon, and here once they all worked it out.

[Revolver]

Let it fly for at least five years without crashes for technical reasons, then I will agree to fly this. Until then - "If it ain't Boeing, I ain't going".

[Dormidont2]

so Boeings fall the most, though often because of pilots

[Idiot]

Quote: Dormidont2

so Boeings fall the most, though often because of pilots

This is Boeing's version for the Third World electorate.

[sa-ag]

Quote: avt

Well this is normal, especially with the prospect of a foreign market

In the EU they will not let a competitor in the USA either, in Brazil there is an Embraer, in China there are people of their own, who should they sell to? Latin America, Southeast Asia? With a Superjet, it’s like once Mexico was sold

[Idiot]

Quote: sa-ag

In the EU they will not let a competitor in the USA either, in Brazil there is an Embraer, in China there are people of their own, who should they sell to? Latin America, Southeast Asia? With a Superjet, it’s like once Mexico was sold

Or maybe it would be advisable to push Boeing and Airbus out of your market this way? Maybe the opinion of graduates of the Higher School of Economics, working in the government of the Russian Federation, mistakenly (to put it mildly) and the state’s monopolization of the domestic air transportation market will add to us both sovereignty and strengthening the industry as a whole? Oh! I forgot that we need a currency to print rubles! The US branch in the Russian Federation (Sberbank and the economic block of the Government of the Russian Federation) against. Take an example from China. They’re on the drum that the C919 is uncompetitive. Today it is, and tomorrow it will be pulled up to the best world models. But the domestic market has been and will remain with national carriers. As in the USSR it was. By the way, the state monopoly on air transportation inevitably increases the level of flight safety ... And we also need to introduce a state monopoly on the production and sale of hard alcohol!

[sa-ag]

Quote: pft, fkb

As in the USSR

Oh, there were so many flights to the USSR, this provided loading

[Grandson of Veteran]

Beautiful plane. The market for mid-ranks in our country is very large. It will be great if the characteristics do not yield to Boeing and Airbus. Let Sberbank and others like it not finance foreign projects, and leasing under MC-21 provide and stimulate demand from domestic air carriers.

[avt]

Quote: Veteran's grandson

The medium-haul market in our country is very large.

The GSS with the Superbudget was horrible - the Red Wings merged their own and UTair merged their Superbudgets into Yakutia and are waiting for the MC-21.

Quote: Veteran's grandson

Let Sberbank and its ilk not finance foreign projects, but leasing under MS-21 provide and stimulate demand from domestic carriers.

Ilyushin finance is already working with AZAL, while a memorandum of interest was signed at the rollout.

[fox21h]

I am happy for our aircraft industry, but I would like to know what localization he has?
And then, if like a superjet, then sadness is sadness ...

[Muvka]

Quote: fox21h

I am happy for our aircraft industry, but I would like to know what localization he has?
And then, if like a superjet, then sadness is sadness ...

80 promise. This is with our engines. And you find out the localization of the Boeing. Be pleasantly surprised;)

[Denis Obukhov]

It’s just fine, I think. Orders are already on 175 boards.

[Denis Obukhov]

The first Boeing 787 Dreamliner was shown at a presentation at a factory in Everett, Washington on July 8, 2007. After a series of deferrals, the Boeing 787 first took off on December 15, 2009. October 26, 2011 the liner made its first commercial flight. And none of the Americans hysteria on these occasions.

[REDBLUE]

New anthem of Russia:
Union indestructible Volodya and Dima
Great Russia rallied forever ...

[Finches]

We need to supplant the Airbases and Boeings on our open spaces and enter the world market! Medvedev is right, but much remains to be done before being consolidated in the Premier League! In general, I am proud of my country, no matter what - builds factories, spaceports, airplanes .... but what Lithuanian, Estonian, Ukrainian, Moldovan, Georgian is proud of
....!?
That's why shit ... but they pour envy that fell under the Yankees, and they just raped them and that's it! They didn’t even pay ...

[firefighter]

Quote: Spartanez300

Mr. Medvedev was also present with his retinue.

He apparently promised an iPhone. And the retinue ... where can you get from her ...

[siberalt]

MS 21 will replace TU-154 and TU-204. Now you can fly from Vladik to Moscow with one intermediate landing instead of two. He has an interesting fuselage shape from the bottom.

[Knight Rider]

Quote: Spartanez300

Our factory will certainly not remain without work, by the way, recently I saw the MS-21 already circled in the sky. Today at the presentation there were 800 people, including 300 foreigners. Mr. Medvedev was also present with his retinue.

Excellent presentation, by the way!

[Knight Rider]

For comparison, how it happened with our neighbors. I must say right away that I was not going to offend either the glorious name of "Antonov" or ordinary workers. The presentation of the new aircraft is also part of a political show. That's about him in Ukraine and speech

[APASUS]

Damn the guys, I read and wonder how half of the naive are there.
This is a test model and the possibly shown MC-21 will have nothing to do with the intended aircraft at all.
I was amazed that they showed me through the box, now the fuselage is being assembled for testing under load, then I don’t understand what it was rolled out to the presentation, since the fuselage did not pass one of the main stages of testing, despite the fact that this is almost only the beginning of the tests. stress tests can make many design changes.
The release was announced for 2017, how is it? Yes, they will only certify it for a couple of years, and the test under load lasts up to a year. If my memory serves me, the SuperJet-100 has been spinning for 9 months.
So all these victorious speeches are more likely an advertising move, no more. Before a real airplane oh how far

[73bor]

Finally, and then for the first time I saw the MC-21 in the picture in Krasnaya Zvezda in 1998, but here it was like alive!

[Olena]

- Personally, I didn’t understand anything ... - The dummy of an airplane is demonstrated in a tormented manner ... -And why didn’t the flights of this airplane show in the air ..? -Something looks rather strange ... -And then ... -or it seemed to me, but it was announced that the engines of this aircraft will be American and avionics will also be imported ...
-Somehow all this does not have to complete joy ...
-Mrs. Site experts, please be so kind as to give details about this aircraft .. as much as possible ...

[Bayonet]

Quote: olena

-And why did not show the flights of this aircraft in the air ..?

Quote: olena

-And why did not show the flights of this aircraft in the air ..?

Because he has never taken off!

[qwert]

Than tryndet about possible commercial demand would be better informed about what engines are and how many components of domestic production on the plane. And then to help sell the products of Collins, Pratt & Whitney, Dupont, Mischallin and others is, excuse me, not a reason for pride

[Mih]

Well, God help you. Glad for you.

[Alexander Romanov]

Here, another victory of the Communist Party, only thanks to Zyuganov we got a new plane.

[CORNET]

Quote: Alexander Romanov

Here, another victory of the Communist Party, only thanks to Zyuganov we got a new plane.

No, this is "United Russia"! What do you have with the planes for the showdown ...? I will not sit on this ....

[Alexander Romanov]

Quote: CORNET

No, this is "United Russia"

Come on, EP can only steal. All the achievements in the country, only thanks to the Communist Party.

Quote: CORNET

I will not sit on this ....

Fly on a used Boeing - enjoyable flight

[Alex_59]

Quote: Alexander Romanov

Fly on a used Boeing - enjoyable flight

Oh ... If it were second-hand ... It could be justified by our poverty. But no, Aeroflot, S7 and other major players have long bought the latest Watermelons. Take an interest in the average age of the sides of these airlines - there from 5 to 10 years, everything was purchased from the assembly line, not used.

[Alexander Romanov]

Quote: Alex_59

, Aeroflot, S7 and other major players have long bought the latest Watermelons

Well, if new, it wasn’t ours. After the devastation of the 90s, I wonder how they were able to restore production at all.

[Alex_59]

Quote: Alexander Romanov

Well, if new, it wasn’t ours.

Tu-204 was not? IL-96 was not? Everything was. There was no desire from the state to give the bream to the aircraft manufacturers to establish normal service and marketing, and to the air carriers to start buying their own, and not imported. Yakovlev, Sukhoi and Irkut thank God themselves moved, but the leadership of Tupolev, Ilyushin, as well as VASO, KAPO and others, clearly needed to be kicked.

[Arikkhab]

and the problems of "Tupolev, Ilyushin, as well as VASO, KAPO and others" by chance UAC (Sukhoi, Pogosyan ...) did not have a hand?
and so - there was a FLYING Tu-334 plane, but no, the aforementioned ones began to implement the American model of sawing - they organized the SSJ-100 project and rushed. the same with engines - instead of a joint venture with the French on the SaM-146 engine, they would have invested the same funds in Perm Motors, so long ago PD-14 would have been in the series ... but no, it didn’t fuse

[nov_tech.vrn]

and I remember how Poghosyan, with money allocated by the government to VASO, which VASO gave 7-9 percent, threw it in his favor, and missed it with a takin bonus, this must be understood, there was help

[user1212]

Quote: ArikKhab

and so - there was a FLYING Tu-334 plane

Controversial statement. Just look at the type certificate (http://aviadocs.net/MAK/AC/Tu-334-100/NCT231_Tu_334_100.pdf)

[Alex_Tug]

the paper is rather weak in comparison ...

[user1212]

But nothing that one MAKovsky, and the second European? Tu334 EASA did not receive at all

[Idiot]

Quote: ArikKhab

and the problems of "Tupolev, Ilyushin, as well as VASO, KAPO and others" by chance UAC (Sukhoi, Pogosyan ...) did not have a hand?

I absolutely agree about Poghosyan. The same figure Solomonenko (MIT) with his "Bulava" will not be remembered by nightfall. In the USSR, from time immemorial, weapons for SSBNs were made by the Makeyevites. It is logical that the development of a new solid-propellant rocket should be entrusted to Miass, as a specialized enterprise, since MIT has always made solid-propellant mobile complexes. The result, as we can see, is on the face ...

[RedBaron]

Quote: Alex_59

Tu-204 was not? IL-96 was not? Everything was. There was no desire from the state to give the bream to the aircraft manufacturers to establish normal service and marketing, and to the air carriers to start buying their own, and not imported. Yakovlev, Sukhoi and Irkut thank God themselves moved, but the leadership of Tupolev, Ilyushin, as well as VASO, KAPO and others, clearly needed to be kicked.

They do not meet the standards, neither in the USA nor in Europe they would not be allowed

[Alex_59]

Quote: RedBaron

They do not meet the standards, neither in the USA nor in Europe they would not be allowed

In the USA and Europe, only the Tu-204 and IL-96 fly from ours. SU-315 - did you know such a flight? Hardly know. Moscow - New York, Aeroflot, IL-96.

And here: http://russianplanes.net/id73524
Tu-Xnumx at Munich Airport. How did he get there, interesting? Do not let the same.

[Alex_Tug]

If TCAS is then let it go.

[Al1977]

Quote: Alexander Romanov

if it’s new, it’s not its own. After the devastation of 90 x, I wonder how they were able to restore production at all.

90 years have passed since the 25s, partly at the highest oil prices.
The number of billionaires during this time has increased many times ...
Indeed .. how could we do something .. just a feat, a breakthrough, of which world history has not seen ...
During this time, China has become the second economy in the world. Korea has become a leading industrial country, and the world of information technology has changed beyond recognition ... And we ... have restored the production of aircraft ..

[KaPToC]

Where is Korea a leading industrial country?

[Dry_T-50]

Quote: Al1977

Quote: Alexander Romanov

if it’s new, it’s not its own. After the devastation of 90 x, I wonder how they were able to restore production at all.

90x passed 25 years, part at the highest oil prices.
The number of billionaires during this time has increased many times ...
Indeed .. how could we do something .. just a feat, a breakthrough, of which world history has not seen ...
During this time, China has become the second economy in the world. Korea has become a leading industrial country, and the world of information technology has changed beyond recognition ... And we ... have restored the production of aircraft ..

15 ... With a break from 2007 to 2011.

[Bayonet]

Quote: Alex_59

Aeroflot, S7 and other major players have long bought the latest Watermelons.

Until they do the MC-21, they will be old.

[kepmor]

After all, we live in a "cool" country ...
Well, where else, if not in Russia, you can see in the forefront at the presentation of the new aircraft "the main gravediggers" of the domestic aviation industry - Medvedev, Dvorkovich and Manturov ?!
It would be more correct to have Putin instead of Dimon, BUT ... apparently EP’s affairs are so bad before the elections that GDP once again played on their side.

[Alex_59]

Quote: kepmor

After all, we live in a "cool" country ...
Well, where else, if not in Russia, you can see in the forefront at the presentation of the new aircraft "the main gravediggers" of the domestic aviation industry - Medvedev, Dvorkovich and Manturov ?!

Plus 500 !!! When I watched on TV, such words fell out of my mouth, I was really ashamed ...

[siberalt]

Medvedev is already in Novosibirsk. Encourages students to vote for "ER".

[PHANTOM-AS]

Quote: siberalt

Medvedev is already in Novosibirsk. Encourages students to vote for "ER".

our ranger ripened everywhere, it’s only strange why his students didn’t throw ayts with it.

[firefighter]

Zya, my friend, zya! There is so much strength there that Boeings are resting. Support our aviation industry! Personally, I am only FOR. Our planes are the best - they are capable of anything. Remember Tu-114 (95), Tu-104 (16), etc.

[Mikado]

Alexander, it seems to me, United Russia will win anyway, no matter what we think, and no matter how we vote. And then the Communist Party? We all perfectly understand that not one of the parties (not one!) Did anything for the country if there was no sign from above. The anti-corruption law was never adopted. Deputies sit, earn money and other benefits. Other people do big things for the country - builders, landowners, engineers, military and other honest people .. And, probably, these people do not think about their political preferences. Respectfully,

[Alexander Romanov]

Quote: Mikado

And then the Communist Party?

What do you mean? There, the communists write that all the achievements in the country are thanks to the Communist Party.

Quote: Mikado

We all perfectly understand that not one of the parties (not one!) Did anything for the country if there was no sign from above.

First sober and very objective look, you +

[Mikado]

Quote: Alexander Romanov

First sober and very objective look, you +

You too)) Alexander, it seems to me that there is love here not for the Communist Party, but for communism as an abstraction. Under the communists, we were proud of our country. And the so-called. "democracy" with the plundering of everything and everything we have already gorged on. And, as you rightly said, you don't want to fly on used Boeings. We need our planes. With our motors, with our electronics. With a full production cycle at US. We want a strong country and justice (it seems to me that the concept of "justice" is key in the worldview of a Russian person). So that factories are not plundered and bankrupt, so that thieves do not evade responsibility. And we get, as Roman wrote yesterday about space - a bunch of "managers" with a non-core education takes profit, and a half pensioners work at the plant for food!

[Alexander Romanov]

Quote: Mikado

Under the Communists, we were proud of our country.

And now there’s nothing to be proud of?

Quote: Mikado

"democracy" with the plundering of everything and everything we have already gorged on.

Democracy is a thing of the past in Russia.

Quote: Mikado

With a full production cycle at US

It is very difficult.

Quote: Mikado

And we get, as Roman wrote yesterday about space - a bunch of "managers" with a non-core education takes profits, and at the plant one and a half pensioners work for food!

Space is a very slippery topic, anyone can write about it, since the topic is very closed, and there are no experts on the topic

[Mikado]

[quote = Alexander Romanov] And now there’s nothing to be proud of? [quote = Mikado]
Space is a very slippery topic, anyone can write about it, since the topic is very closed, and there are no experts on the topic [/ Quote]
About production: difficult - not difficult, but the USSR and China, it seems, did it.
Not only space. They themselves have heard from the workers of one of the St. Petersburg factories about the separation of salaries of office workers and hard workers in the shops, as well as about corporate parties.
There is certainly something to be proud of. But .. how many people in our country trust the same State Duma or ministers (except Shoigu)? It seems that in our country most politicians of high rank are associated with something not very good.
Let us give a vivid example, which is not written about in VO: last week, the vice-governor of St. Petersburg proposed to name the bridge in my microdistrict the bridge of Akhmat Kadyrov. Street names in the area are associated with the names of the heroes of the Second World War. And Heroes Avenue will go from Kadyrov’s bridge. I even agree that this bridge should be named after Putin, but what is the relationship between Peter and the first president of Chechnya? WHOM (I'm talking about the vice-governor) need to be in order to persistently push this topic through the toponymic commission? A fool? Or ... (we’ll think up the rest ourselves). And absolutely to them ... on our opinion. Respectfully,

[ARES623]

Quote: Mikado

And absolutely to them ... on our opinion. Respectfully,

An opinion, in order to be reckoned with, must not only be expressed in forums such as VO, but also by actions of a different order. The authors of the "color revolutions" have a whole arsenal of non-aggressive nonviolent actions to advance demands for leadership. It is possible to use them with us. Must to force hear them and listen to us.

[Mikado]

Quote: ARES623

An opinion, in order to be reckoned with, must not only be expressed in forums such as VO, but also by actions of a different order. The authors of the "color revolutions" have a whole arsenal of non-aggressive nonviolent actions to advance demands for leadership. It is possible to use them with us. Must to force hear them and listen to us.

Ares, you're absolutely right. But there is a very thin line between protest and "color revolution". If you go out to protest against such idiocy yourself, half of the people themselves will then consider me a traitor, shout "orange" and all that. Moreover, such reasons for protests will be used by rogue protest conductors, liberals and other Carnival. Maybe there is an easier way out? Maybe the representatives of the authorities think with their heads in what they are doing and bear responsibility for it? And not to make deliberately idiotic decisions. You know, people with a conscience in ancient times, after a failed decision, under the weight of shame, settled scores with themselves, or at least resigned. And this - nothing at all ...

[ARES623]

Quote: Mikado

But there is a very thin line between protest and "color revolution". If you go out to protest against such idiocy yourself, half of the people themselves will then consider me a traitor, shout "orange" and all that.

I am not suggesting revolutions, I am suggesting using methods to achieve a productive result. The list contains them that are quite worthy for study and application for limited and positive purposes. Especially on the issue of the name of the bridge - I agree with St. Petersburg. St. Petersburg is so rich in heroic history that it is completely inappropriate to immortalize people there with "a very ambiguous reputation" who do not have a solid relationship with the city.

[Mikado]

Quote: ARES623

I do not propose revolutions; I propose using methods to achieve a productive result.

I deliberately did not speak about an ambiguous reputation, everyone understands everything anyway ..
About the methods - say the right thoughts, but .. hell knows how everything can turn around when applying these methods. Ukrainians, it seems, also "for justice" first rode on their Maidan, and we see how it ended. Our government should be responsible to the people. Representatives who do not want to carry it should be helped to realize this by control from above. This is not the case. I hope that someday the brains and hands will reach the Government. I do not absolve ourselves of responsibility, but, as you understand, the evolutionary path of legal development is preferable to "protests from below". Protests from below begin precisely when the government and the people live in different dimensions (for example, any historically documented revolution).

[kotvov]

I hope that someday even before this the brains and hands will reach the Government. ,,
better BEFORE the government.

[Mikado]

Quote: kotvov

I hope that someday even before this the brains and hands will reach the Government. ,,
better BEFORE the government.

That's for sure)) We are basically not used to expressing our protests publicly. Yes and no time - you need to work. But some jumps, such as the figure you mentioned and his madame, or something like that - spit on the people. And now there’s such a moment that people can’t give a damn about it, the enemies are not asleep. with respect,

[ARES623]

Quote: Mikado

I do not absolve ourselves of responsibility, but, as you understand, the evolutionary path of legal development is preferable to "protests from below". Protests from below begin precisely when the government and the people live in different dimensions (for example, any historically documented revolution).

Well then, to the public reception room of "United Russia", the Liberal Democratic Party, a letter, better collective, to the presidential administration. They react quite briskly there. Checked.

[kotvov]

drove scores with them, or at least resigned. And with this - nothing at all .. ,,
Well, it's you in vain. Serdyukov’s call, very much how much. In Rostekhkom diving, and does not dust

[Bayonet]

Quote: Mikado

But there is a very thin line between protest and "color revolution". If you go out to protest against such idiocy, half of the people themselves will then consider me a traitor, shout "orange" and all that

If in the same England, France, Italy and other Europe, people go to protest demonstrations or go on strike demanding higher wages or better anything, this in no way leads to "orange revolutions". Why should we necessarily have some kind of revolution?

[samoletil18]

Quote: Alexander Romanov

What do you mean? There, the communists write that all the achievements in the country are thanks to the Communist Party.

Pancake! I took seriously about the Communist Party. I wanted to ask on the network what else was useful Aging, on the go.
It is a pity that the Tu-204 / -214 will bury this project.

[Alexander Romanov]

Quote: samoletil18

Pancake! I took seriously about the Communist Party. I wanted to ask on the network what else was useful

As something else useful, the army was restored, the fleet is being built, new ships, submarines. A new cosmodrome, a bridge to the Crimea. All this became possible thanks to the Communist Party and personally to comrade Zyuganov.

[samoletil18]

Quote: Alexander Romanov

personally to comrade Zyuganov smile

[Stas157]

Quote: Alexander Romanov

As something else useful, the army was restored, the fleet is being built, new ships, submarines. A new cosmodrome, a bridge to the Crimea. All this became possible thanks to the Communist Party and personally to comrade Zyuganov.

Here to this, the Communist Party and personally Comrade Zyuganov tirelessly urge! The deafening victories and achievements of the Soviet era prove that the communists come to power, our salaries with factories will increase, and the retirement age and working day will decrease!
Romanov! Stop pouring dirt on the Communists and pit people on the forum!

[samoletil18]

Quote: Stas157

dirt on the communists

This is a list of the Communist Party faction in the State Duma.

[Alexander Romanov]

Quote: Stas157

come to power, the Communists, and our salaries with factories will grow,

And I say, 100 minimum wages, each woman for a man, each man for a bottle. Give the Communist Party.
Plant to every yard !!!

Quote: Stas157

and the retirement age and working day will decrease!

Yes, we’ll retire at 30, we’ll work three days a week, five hours each. No, it’s better four.

Quote: Stas157

Romanov! Stop pouring dirt on the Communists and pit people on the forum!

What dirt, I’m for Comrade Zyuganov’s throat to any bite. Glory to the Communist Party-Zyuganov Glory!

[Ruslan67]

Quote: Alexander Romanov

Damn, it got to the tenderness

Me too

[Alexander Romanov]

Quote: Ruslan67

Me too

The picture is not inserted, scha Fantast will restore order and again into battle

[Ruslan67]

Quote: Alexander Romanov

SchA Fantast will restore order and fight again

Honestly, hands begin to drop This is not a battle, but some kind of invasion of dragonflies ...

[stalkerwalker]

Quote: Alexander Romanov

scha Fantast will restore order

Yes, then does IT EXIST ????

[kotvov]

What dirt, I’m for Comrade Zyuganov’s throat to any bite. Glory to the Communist Party-Zyuganov Glory! ,,
no, let's jump and yell-Glory to iPhones, glory to Chubais, glory to the economic unit!

[Alexey RA]

Quote: Alexander Romanov

Here, another victory of the Communist Party, only thanks to Zyuganov we got a new plane.

Winter has passed, summer has come - thanks to the party for this!

[FID]

And the motors, I see, General Electric?

[Muvka]

Quote: SSI

And the motors, I see, General Electric?

So it seemed to say right away that there would be no PD on the first copies. But at the same time there is an engine and it is tested in the sky.

[sa-ag]

Quote: Muvka

So it seemed to say right away that there would be no PD on the first copies. But at the same time there is an engine and it is tested in the sky.

A bit strange, the engine has been tested, but not put on the plane

[megafair]

Quote: SSI

And the motors, I see, General Electric?

Again did not guess:

Quote: Wikipedia

MS-21 is planned to be equipped optionally one of two engines: Russian engine PD-14developed by Perm Aviadvigatel OJSC (developed on the basis of PS-12 (1999), officially since 2008, serial production is planned from 2016, at least 20-30 engines will be produced per year), or a Pratt & Whitney engine (American company producing aircraft engines for civil and military aviation) PW1400G models from the family of turbofan geared engines

[i80186]

Quote: SSI

And the motors, I see, General Electric?

The project of creating the MS-21 initially assumed the presence of two alternative power plants - with Russian engines PD-14 or American Pratt & Whitney PW1400G.

[FID]

Yes, I'm weak with American technology ...

[Vadim237]

Aircraft will be exported with PW1400G engines.

[silver_roman]

It seems that the first ours in the country will also be P&W. True resource dvigla much less than the aircraft itself, so that over time, the PD will.

[Alex_59]

Quote: SSI

And the motors, I see, General Electric?

This is what worries, in the interest appeared infa that the PD-14 will go only to departmental vehicles of the Northern Fleet, Ministry of Emergencies, Ministry of Defense, etc. And for commercial - imported engines. This is a great solution, the meaning of which is completely incomprehensible, unless of course it is true. Was it worth it for the sake of piece "salon" cars to fence a new engine? It's like our engine is uncompetitive junk ... a shame.

[Genry]

Do not dissolve nurses!
For internal use, there will be a PD-14. Upon receipt of international certificates and the development of maintenance, it will go further. But it takes time and money.

[Al1977]

Quote: Alex_59

Was it worth it for the sake of piece "salon" cars to fence a new engine? It's like our engine is uncompetitive junk ... a shame.

If these are really excellent engines, then our customers and foreigners will buy them.
The question is, after all, how long to wait for spare parts for this engine if the plane breaks down, say, in Europe. Spare parts for an American are in "every pharmacy", but for ours ...
It's pure business ..

[Dmitry Potapov]

Albright! Who are we there "with missiles"?

[megafair]

Great news! And then, skeptics just recently whined that the Superjet is garbage, no one will buy ... But in reality - a lot of orders, they leave the shops a few dozen a year. Now here we have the MS-21 :)

[Leto]

Quote: megafair

And then, skeptics just recently whined that the Superjet is garbage, no one will buy ...

And who is this Mr. buying? MS-21 yes, this is a thing, a great future, unlike ...

[Alexander Romanov]

Quote: Leto

And who is this Mr. buying?

Definitely not you.

[Lt. Air Force stock]

Quote: Leto

And who is this Mr. buying?

Superjet 100 has already 105 boards produced, in Aeroflot 26 fly + 24 still ordered.

[ayuric]

flew on a jet from Moscow to Chelyabinsk, 2 hours go, I will not say anything bad, as a short-haul is a great thing

[gispanec]

Quote: ayuric

flew on a jet from Moscow to Chelyabinsk, 2 hours go, I will not say anything bad, as a short-haul is a great thing

the same flew from Moscow to N Novgorod ... everything is great ... but here is the take-off-climb ... like a rocket)) .. almost vertically and quickly)) .. did not expect ..

[Alex_Tug]

I would not dare, the failure of channel A of avionics and Tryndets. Channel B is 30% in error. Although who knows about this? (((

[megafair]

Quote: Leto

And who is this Mr. buying?

Out of 172 ordered, 85 have already been delivered, out of 94 ordered for Russian companies - the remaining 78 are for export, so there is no need for "ball blah blah" ...
Here is a clear sign:
https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sukhoi_Superjet_100#.D0.97.D0.B0.D0.BA.D0.B0.D0.B7
.D1.8B_.D0.B8_.D0.BF.D0.BE.D1.81.D1.82.D0.B0.D0.B2.D0.BA.D0.B8

[Verdun]

Quote: megafair

And then, skeptics just recently whined that the Superjet is garbage, no one will buy ... But in reality - a lot of orders,

There are orders for the Superjet. But the buyers are either Russian airlines or so-called "third countries". However, the plane, in which almost half of the components are imported, can be called Russian rather conditionally. I would very much like to hope that things will be different with the MS-21. First of all, you need your own motors.

[Alexander Romanov]

Quote: Verdun

However, the aircraft, in which almost half of the components are imported, can be called Russian relatively arbitrarily.

In this case, the Boeing American, can be called very conditionally.

[Lt. Air Force stock]

Quote: Alexander Romanov

In this case, the Boeing American, can be called very conditionally

And Airbus all the more, there Germany, the UK, France and many more countries are involved in production.

[saturn.mmm]

Quote: Lt. air force reserve

And Airbus all the more, there Germany, the UK, France and many more countries are involved in production.

Russia among them.

[Alex_59]

Quote: Alexander Romanov

In this case, the Boeing American, can be called very conditionally.

Globalization - it is, yes. There is a very large percentage of ours. And in Airbuses there are even Ulyanovsk wings. Nevertheless, they keep the key production facilities. These are three whales - assembly, electronics, engines. SSJ for these parameters is ours only for the "assembly" item, and very, very little for the engine.
The MS-21 is much more "our" aircraft, just like the Boeing is more American. In MS-21, the engine is ours, the assembly is ours, and only the electronics are theirs.

[Genry]

Quote: Alex_59

The MS-21 already has our engine, our assembly, and only electronics are theirs.

You don’t know about electronics and write ... (such words are not spoken in a good society).

[Alex_59]

Quote: Genry

You don’t know about electronics and write ... (such words are not spoken in a good society).

On account of "electronics you do not know" - he graduated from the university with a degree in "design of radio electronic means", worked for more than 5 years as a design engineer for long-distance communication equipment for JSC Russian Railways, FAPSI, Rostelecom. Therefore, I know everything in the best possible way. What is shown in the above video pleases me, it's good. However, the hardware part of the avionics is still built on imported components. components are not produced in the Russian Federation. We used processors from Texas Instruments, American semicondactors, etc. I personally designed 8-layer printed circuit boards similar to those in your computers. The boards themselves were manufactured by Hong Kong, the components were assembled here, but also on the conveyor and machine tools made in the USA. The software is ours. I think LLC "UAC-Integration Center" works according to a similar technology, but actually they have no choice, because of modern electronic components in housings for surface mounting in the Russian Federation, only resistors and some capacitors are produced. We also do not make machines for REP. Processors, the entire "intellectual" part - everything is imported. But the good news is that at least the development of products was entrusted to ours, and they did not buy ready-made ones.

[saturn.mmm]

Quote: Alex_59

The MS-21 already has our engine, our assembly, and only electronics are theirs.

In MS-21, the share of Russian avionics is 80%.

[Verdun]

Quote: Alex_59

Globalization - it is, yes. There is a very large percentage of our

I think that engaging in the supply of components and components in a company that, in fact, is a competitor to you is not a good idea. Yes, today such a policy will help to feed oneself. Only tomorrow will turn into losses. Something I did not hear that Daimler-Benz supplied something for BMW, and Boeing - for Airbas.

[Anglorussian]

Daimler-Benz supplied something for BMW

The BMW M51 diesel was put on the Opel Omega, RangeRover in 1995-2001. Samsung does not disdain the apple supply parts. Something like this..

[Lt. Air Force stock]

Quote: Verdun

There are orders for the Superjet. Here are just the buyers - either Russian airlines or the so-called "third countries"

At least we will provide ourselves with airplanes and that’s good. You can’t just get through to the world market.
Only one possible option comes to mind: to create a revolutionary aircraft in the global aircraft industry that will not be 2-3% more economical than Boeing or Airbus, but 50-60%. But this is unlikely.

[Verdun]

Quote: Lt. air force reserve

At least we’ll provide ourselves with airplanes.

We will provide ourselves with airplanes, the operation of which can be stopped at any time due to non-delivery of spare parts, because of whose economic efficiency is in question?

BMW M51 diesel was put on Opel Omega, RangeRover in 1995-2001

Opel and BMW are not direct competitors, these cars have different target audiences. And the Range in these was in the hands of BMW, it owned it, and after - sold it.

[Anglorussian]

Opel and BMW are not direct competitors, these cars have different target audiences.

Just Omega Celilasy in the segment of business sedans (unsuccessfully, true). And Samsung is not a problem for the Yabloko’s supply, but lead the competitors.

[Al1977]

Quote: Lt. air force reserve

At least we will provide ourselves with airplanes and that’s good. You can’t just get through to the world market.

Which airline is in dire need of airplanes? Aeroflot?
If it does not break through to the world market, the project will not pay off. There is only one way out - it is the world market.

[Lt. Air Force stock]

Quote: Al1977

Which airline is in dire need of airplanes? Aeroflot?

Nevertheless, Aeroflot ordered 50 MS-21. Now, by the way, Aeroflot uses 50 A-320s.

[user1212]

Quote: Verdun

However, the aircraft, in which almost half of the components are imported, can be called Russian relatively arbitrarily.

And to which countries then are Boeing and Watermelon?

[Verdun]

Quote: user1212

And to which countries then are Boeing and Watermelon?

If you haven’t noticed, then these guys live in one chicken coop, and we live in another. Something I did not hear that Europe and the United States spread rotter sanctions.

[Engineer]

They do not whine, but state the fact - Superjet - garbage. Aeroflot already spat on it - more downtime from malfunctions than flights. This plane was blinded from all the western trash that they could put together in a heap. Poghosyan warmed his hands very much on this project. Yes, it’s understandable here: one must be a complete fool to seriously think that a Boeing will help promote this on the international market. No one needs him there from the word - in general. About Mexico you can not even mind. This is not even a drop in the global market.

[Alexander Romanov]

Quote: Engineer

They do not whine, but state the fact - Superjet - garbage. Aeroflot already spits on neg

Did Aeroflot tell you this?

[Alex_59]

Quote: Engineer

Aeroflot already spat on it - more downtime from malfunctions than flights.

I do not like SSJ, for the ruined Tu-334. However, he flies the infection. I see him in the sky every day.
True, at the same time, Sukhoi Civil Aircraft continue to show a net loss every year ... It is not entirely clear how they do it with a sufficiently massive production of SSJs.

[Alexander Romanov]

Quote: Alex_59

. How they get this with a fairly massive release of SSJ is not entirely clear.

Fuck knows, Sukhoi Civil Aircraft is very arbitrary, since the enterprise also produces military products. They invested a lot of money in modernization, in development. Just a lot of fucking, because I think it's too early to talk about profit.

[Stas157]

Quote: Alex_59

I do not like SSJ, for the ruined Tu-334.

Nevertheless, the Superjet is a competitive aircraft, and the Tu-334 is not!

Quote: Alex_59

However, Sukhoi Civil Aircraft continue to show a net loss every year ...

Breakeven occurs after the release of 200-300 aircraft. Even if the Superjet doesn’t work out as a plus, this is a huge achievement of the domestic aviation industry! Without such achievements, even if there may be unprofitable ones, breakthroughs into the future do not occur. There are so many failed Chinese projects! But, after all, they don’t give up anything ... and ultimately achieve their goal!
Ah, the Superjet is a modern, beautiful and very balanced plane! I am sure that in the end it will not only pay off, but also make a profit.

[Alex_59]

Quote: Stas157

Nevertheless, the Superjet is a competitive aircraft, and the Tu-334 is not!

That which is not - of course, cannot be competitive. The dead don't bite. The point is that when the government chose a regional aircraft project to support it, they chose the SSJ, not the Tu-334. Although the Tu-334 at 100% is our plane (there is one problem there - Ukrainian D-436T engines, but in those years there was peace, friendship, chewing gum with Ukraine). Those. our Dimon iPhones immediately decided that let's buy French avionics, engines, etc., and what our engine engineers and electronic engineers would do than earn bread from the bread and butter — these are not our problems, we are for the free market, we are against protectionism! That’s such patriotism, and today it’s suddenly, oh, and let's get down to import substitution. Where have you been before? Oh, you can’t swear ... sorry ...

Quote: Stas157

Breakeven occurs after the release of 200-300 aircraft.

I think we are talking about different things. GSS shows the annual loss on revenue. This means that either they continue to invest something annually from the personal funds of shareholders or the state, or they sell planes at a price below cost. With negative revenue, it is impossible to break even or payback the project in principle. That's when the revenue will be positive, you can calculate when the project will pay off, if you know how much has already been invested.

[ARES623]

Quote: Alex_59

With negative revenue, it is impossible to break even or payback the project in principle. That's when the revenue will be positive, you can calculate when the project will pay off, if you know how much has already been invested.

An airplane is a complicated thing, the profit from it does not end with the sale of the product itself, then the deadlines for receipt of revenue from regulations and TR come. I am not an economist, but I think that in any case, doing your own thing is better than carrying money in wagons for import. Our production is the turnover of funds within the country, jobs, acquired competencies and many other advantages. Any complex product is born difficult. And we’ve been doing engines for decades, but ourselves. Not many countries can boast of this. I think everything will be quite good. The fact that we temporarily use other people's components is not fatal. And the prime minister makes decisions using a much broader range of facts, conditions and risks than we can imagine, and worries about his work no less than many discussing and condemning him. Personally, I will not spit in such a contemptuous way, I myself lead some of the teams and imagine that this is not easy at all ...

[Alex_59]

Quote: ARES623

An airplane is a complicated thing, the profit from it does not end with the sale of the product itself, then the deadlines for receipt of revenue from regulations and TR come

Undoubtedly. Wait and see.

Quote: ARES623

Personally, I won’t spit in such a contemptuous way, I myself lead a team and imagine that it happens not at all easy ...

I also have leadership experience. Therefore, I cannot criticize Putin the same way - a person does not say what he does not understand, or he speaks carefully, evasively, with an understanding of the weight of his words. Dimon is perceived, sorry, like a balabol. He speaks a lot, beautifully, but about nothing. The work of all of them is hard - this is a fact. But somehow you need to learn not only to make a meaningful appearance, to puff out your cheeks and grind with your tongue, but also to understand the essence of things, which I don’t see point blank at Dimon.

[PHANTOM-AS]

Quote: Alex_59

But somehow you need to learn not only to make a meaningful appearance, to puff out your cheeks and grind with your tongue, but also to understand the essence of things, which I don’t see point blank at Dimon.

And you have not forgotten that not long ago he was president and everyone went to vote for him at the request of the GDP, and after the next rotation he appointed him prime minister? this is aerobatics! And it never occurs to anyone at what level the people "run" the country.
"Good mood, health. But no money"

[Alex_59]

Quote: PHANTOM-AS

And you did not forget that he was recently the president and everyone went to vote for him at the request of the GDP, and after the next rotation appointed him prime minister?

Yes it was. I am ashamed to think now. I really didn’t vote for him then, but the second time I still won’t lead to this divorce. Eh ... Stalin is not on them ... And on us, too.

[ARES623]

Quote: Alex_59

Dimon is perceived, sorry, like a balabol. He speaks a lot, beautifully, but about nothing.

Quote: Alex_59

we must learn not only to make a meaningful appearance, to puff out our cheeks and grind our tongues, but also to understand the essence of things, which I do not see point blank at Dimon.

Everyone has their own way of speaking. You, too, are showing more rudeness, being sure that you will not have to answer for the words. And he himself will not answer you, even if he reads it. The level is not the same. Putin is not a d.u.r.a.k., and he will not pull the strap for two, which means he sees in DAM a person who can be entrusted with the leadership of the government. And about his (Medvedev) phrase that "there is no money and there will be no indexation of pensions, there will be money - we will index it", so what? But there is really no money, I see it from the funding of federal programs. Are you proposing to promise your grandmother what you cannot do? We still have to ask, why does granny have such a pension? By the way, a communal apartment for a kopeck piece in Crimea is about 1500-2000 rubles. I pay for 4-ku 8000 in the summer, up to 12000 in the winter. At the same time, I would recommend collecting your own pension. As long as there is strength and salary. Trust in Allah, and tie the camel ...

[Alex_59]

Quote: ARES623

And about his (Medvedev) phrase that "there is no money and there will be no indexation of pensions, there will be money - we will index it", so what?

It's not about this phrase at all. Examples can be collected by the sea. Starting from "let's move the clock to the whole country by two hours back and forth."

Quote: ARES623

But there really is no money, I see this in financing federal programs.

Where is the money? Here you, the leader, can you imagine that you will turn this to your subordinates - "but there is no money ..." Dmitry Anatolyevich, you have been in the country's leadership for 15 years, and the result of your work is "no money"? Or, on today's occasion, his words: "we need to work “for the future” and continue to update the fleet of Russian civil aviation. Dmitry Anatolyevich, what are you talking about? Are you familiar with the state of affairs in the aviation industry in general, since you are talking about the need to CONTINUE to update the fleet? Continue what? The first plane can be said to have been made in 25 years. The Samara aircraft plant goes bankrupt, the Saratov one has already been destroyed, Ukrainian planes are assembled at VASO, KAPO is idle. There is only SSJ, but he is not really ours and this is more of Poghosyan's merit. E-my, tell me honestly - "we have lost a lot, we have ceased to be leaders, people get up, stop lying on the stove, let's raise the aviation industry, otherwise in a few years Irkut and Sukhoi alone will remain" - that's what the leader of the nation should say.

[ARES623]

Quote: Alex_59

Where is the money? Here you, the leader, you imagine that you will turn this to your subordinates - "but there is no money ..."

And you know, you have to say that too - you guys are great, but there will be no increase in wages this year. If anyone finds a better job, I’m sorry, but I’ll try to understand ... This is not easy to say, but it’s honest. And Medvedev did not say that there is no pension money at all, but only that there is no money for indexation. Where did the money go? Even Siluanov will not answer this question for you. It remains only to trust those who have been elected. Poroshenko, for example, promised everyone everything, but did nothing - I don’t think it’s better.

Quote: Alex_59

Dmitry Anatolyevich, what are you talking about? Are you familiar with the state of affairs in the aviation industry in general, since you are talking about the need to CONTINUE to update the fleet? Continue what? The first plane can be said to have been made in 25 years. The Samara aircraft plant goes bankrupt, the Saratov one has already been destroyed, Ukrainian planes are assembled at VASO, KAPO is idle. There is only SSJ, but he is not really ours and this is more of Poghosyan's merit. E-my, tell me honestly - "we have lost a lot, we have ceased to be leaders, people get up, stop lying on the stove, let's raise the aviation industry, otherwise in a few years Irkut and Sukhoi alone will remain" - that's what the leader of the nation should say.

Yes, yes, suk and idlers, h ... are you here ???? Everyone in the cameras and sharpen, sharpen, sharpen !!!! Or maybe you will come to your beloved father-in-law for your 70th birthday and say - happy birthday, you are no longer dangerous for women, hemorrhoids sticking out of the leg, there are three hairs on your head, which is already a lot for your age, and in general you have already stepped over your "life span", show me where the babkt is for the funeral and ... Amen. No, won't you tell? And what? But this is true! So I think there are things that should not be said aloud at celebrations, and it is better not even to think about them at such a moment. Moreover, you are dissembling too.
In Russian federation
Year Aircraft (“UAC”[5]) Helicopters (“Russian Helicopters”[6])
2015 military
? civil[7] 280[8]
2014 military
33 civil 271
2013 military
32 civil 275
2012 military
23 civil 290
2011 military
7 civil 262
2010 214

Of course, this is not Boeing or Watermelon, but we did it, not Allah gave. Why multiply the entire industry by "0". If you are called a dumbass without a doctorate, would you agree? And everyone knows that the industry needs to be raised, and Medvedev, as a leader, must show the way to the goal and convince that this goal is achievable, including thanks to those who have gathered next to him. The leader's job is to guide, motivate, inspire and provide. And the search for the causes and culprits of failures should be left to the prosecutor.

[Alex_59]

Quote: ARES623

And you know, I have to say this too - guys, you are great, but this year there will be no increase in wages.

Well, we are not the government, we are the owners of the business. But for Medvedev, who is the servant of the people, the question should be different: you are Dmitry Anatolyevich, well done, but since there will be no salary increase for this year, let's goodbye.

Quote: ARES623

The leader's task is to guide, motivate, inspire and provide.

Medvedev does not motivate me or absolutely inspire me. He directs, in my understanding, also badly. What provides I can not know. Collectively, rather than good. But this is my personal opinion on which it is completely legal for everyone except me in parallel.

Quote: ARES623

Especially since you are cunning.
In Russian federation
Year Planes

Everything except the Ansat helicopter and SSJ aircraft were developed in the USSR. Well, PAK-FA is still, for the most part, created and tested after the 91 year. I am not an alarmist and not hysterical, but in recent years there has been growth and progress. I'm glad for that. This is better than it was in 90. But at the heart of these successes is still the Soviet backlog.

[ARES623]

Quote: Alex_59

Everything except the Ansat helicopter and SSJ aircraft were developed in the USSR. Well, PAK-FA is still, for the most part, created and tested after the 91 year. I am not an alarmist and not hysterical, but in recent years there has been growth and progress. I'm glad for that. This is better than it was in 90. But at the heart of these successes is still the Soviet backlog.

You know, and I myself touched the Soviet era. In the USA, both "737" and C-5 are a little younger than me, but here the other day the three B-52s were transferred to Europe, then they are generally over 600 years old, and they do not reflect. And our difficulties not only from our foolishness, but also Europe opened its mouth with a whole bunch of our goodness, and we again save the world, for the umpteenth time ... And when was it easy for us? And your opinion is really personal, and notice that no one denies you the right to it, and the door does not smear with tar. So, it's not all bad. The water is still wet, the sky is blue, and life is what we think of it.

[Leto]

Quote: Stas157

Nevertheless, the Superjet is a competitive aircraft, and the Tu-334 is not!

The Tu-334 would be no less widespread than the Superjet at a much lower cost. What was described above about its "relevance" does not correspond to the previously announced plans, the Superjet is a failure which is kept at the expense of the state.

[Arikkhab]

it should be added that the Tu-334 made its first flight in 1999, and if the program had not been "turned down", then perhaps many regional / local carriers would have chosen it to update the fleet (from the same Tu-134 or An-24) ( price, Russian-made, familiar manufacturer's name, local components, maintainability, etc.). and so a "gap" was formed before the start of production of ssj-100, so many bought used foreign aircraft of this class

[avt]

Quote: Stas157

Nevertheless, the Superjet is a competitive aircraft, and the Tu-334 is not!

This is already a direct sect. It’s already the fact that the Red Wings and Uther have leaked their Super Budgets in anticipation of the MS-21, and ... who’s talking about it, and lousy about the bath

Quote: Stas157

Breakeven occurs after the release of 200-300 aircraft.

Well, the classic

Quote: Stas157

Even if the Superjet doesn’t work out as a plus, this is a huge achievement of the domestic aviation industry!

For such a HUGE ACHIEVEMENT on the principle of which an article was posted here on the site stating that a negative result with GSS is a great achievement in gaining experience and a team that cannot bring a car to mind, and even for such BUDGET money for a COMMERCIAL successful project.

Quote: Alex_59

. GSS shows the annual loss on revenue.

With regular capitalization of the SCA with BUDGET money.

Ah, the Superjet is a modern, beautiful and very balanced plane! I am sure that in the end it will not only pay off, but also bring profit

The end is simple, the tractor came and there was a cable and there was a doctor ...

[Stas157]

Quote: avt

For such a HUGE ACHIEVEMENT on the principle of which an article was posted here on the site stating that a negative result with GSS is a great achievement in gaining experience and a team that cannot bring a car to mind, and even for such BUDGET money for a COMMERCIAL successful project.

You use a lot of adjectives in the description, but few arguments. You should go to the writers, otherwise such talent is inept on the VO website!))
Pouring dirt in the direction of the mega project, the first Russian ship, is of course easy! Well, building a world-class aircraft is not easy! Only a few countries can do this. China spends several times more on airplanes, but hasn’t built anything worthwhile in the aircraft industry! A low bow to Poghosyan, which essentially saved our civilian industry from extinction! He made a very good plane and was able to establish its rhythmic production. This is a very difficult task, which cannot be solved by injecting money alone.

Quote: avt

With regular capitalization of the SCA with BUDGET money.

And who does it happen otherwise?

Quote: avt

The end is simple, the tractor came and there was a cable and there was a doctor ...

You shouldn’t be so, about the Superjet.

[avt]

Quote: Stas157

Pouring dirt in the direction of the mega project, the first Russian ship, is of course easy!

Argumenty you are ours, well, how much is real on the wing and with flight clocks from the mega-series in the mega project? What is there about the return from the “beautiful far away” Superbudgets leased out? What about the Chinese contract of the SCA, the Iranian? Give me the numbers and for one pro

Quote: Stas157

Only a few countries can do this. China,

China for your Svidomo Boeing similar bought in a batch of 800 cars of different classes.

Quote: Stas157

The first Russian liner, of course, easy!

From what side is it 80% of imported components and "intellectual property" of Boeing Russian?

Quote: Stas157

A low bow to Poghosyan, which essentially saved our civilian

And to his son for the SCAC and budget capitalization to this day. Don't you want to look when the LADY poured into the commercially successful project of capturing the segment of the world market "rubles with 9 zeros? Did you fulfill the condition of capitalization? Well, you made 30 cars a year?

Quote: Stas157

You use a lot of adjectives in the description,

adjective to the project.
And the warranty service of airplanes with the delivery of imported blocks with payment by the operator of the customs duty, which is NOT INCLUDED IN THE GUARANTEE, thank you Poghosyan! And the revocation of the license from the SCAC for the technical support of the Superbudget itself is also an adjective ??? Well, not an argument for sure, but natural sabotage. For the glory of the Superbudget, he spread rot and finished off the An-148, which had 500 flight hours per month , for a second, the Red Wings dispersed the Superbudget to 300 and .... merged ALL Superbudgets, now, for lack of Tu, they are waiting for MS-21.

Quote: Stas157

And who does it happen otherwise?

Actually, in the same USA, for such a scam, the leadership of the SCA would have already been sitting by a court decision for fraud. stupidly overwrite critical comments on "Made with us", seeing this there, somehow he didn't want to register with them and enter into some kind of discussions. sectarianism

[Stas157]

Quote: avt

Argumenty you are ours, well, how much is real on the wing and with flight clocks from the mega-series in the mega project? What is there about the return from the “beautiful far away” Superbudgets leased out? What about the Chinese contract of the SCA, the Iranian? Give me the numbers and for one pro

A site was created specifically for such delays here: http://superjet.wikidot.com/start
There you will find all the numbers!

Quote: avt

From what side is it 80% of imported components and "intellectual property" of Boeing Russian?

So what? IPhone in general in China collect! But Russian engineers are working on Boeing and Russian titanium is coming. Any modern aircraft is made in international cooperation! Without this, it is not possible to get a competitive product.

Quote: avt

And his son for the SCAC and budget capitalization to this day. Do not want to search when the LADY poured rubles into a commercially successful project to capture a segment of the world market with 9 zeros?

You’ll have a wife! Is it from this that the Superjet has become worse? Don't lump everything together. And the sum with 9 zeros, even when a new model of a car is being introduced, is poured into the plane! What did you want to say there, I still did not understand, except that "the money was spent on the plane is not!" If there is a theft or a problem with the "son" then let the prosecutor's office deal with it!

Quote: avt

And the warranty service of airplanes with the delivery of imported blocks with payment by the operator of the customs duty, which is NOT INCLUDED IN THE GUARANTEE, thank you Poghosyan! And the revocation of the license from the SCAC for technical support of the Superbudget itself is also an adjective ??? Well, not an argument for sure, but natural sabotage.

And what is bad about this plane? Everything is lost? There are problems if you do in any business! Poghosyan was removed, now Slyusar is engaged in all this. God grant that the problems are resolved.

Quote: avt

Actually, in the same USA, for such a scam, the SCA leadership would already be sitting by a court decision for fraud.

Let the prosecutor's office engage in frauds, if any. Managing to bring a world-class aircraft to rhythmic production is not a scam. In the USA, there are scams! Remember how a private company brought the US nuclear industry to complete degradation and helped close the last plant in Paduc. And this is with the infusion of such huge state. money that Pogosyan did not dream of!

[avt]

Quote: Stas157

There you will find all the numbers!

That is, we do not want to?

Quote: Stas157

Any modern aircraft is made in international cooperation! Without this, it is not possible to get a competitive product.

Well, how many, again in numbers, "competitive" Superbudget countries have won that? Or can we only sleep with adjectives?

Quote: Stas157

And what is bad about this plane?

hospital average plane,

Quote: Stas157

Everything is lost?

No . Only the budget money was put into it and according to the criterion of cost - efficiency, in those days distant, now almost epic, the lads from the GSStop manager, promised themselves in especially large amounts for the tower, but - “We are not 37 years old.

Quote: Stas157

There are problems if you do in any business

If you make money from the budget to offshore through Italy and then try to get on the London Stock Exchange with GSS shares and try to declare yourself bankrupt, then there will definitely be problems with the iron.

Quote: Stas157

Managing to bring a world-class aircraft to rhythmic production is not a scam.

Rhythmically disrupting the announced number of airplane production for BUDGET money and just as rhythmically pushing a commercially successful airplane into corners? Well, who is pouring out adjectives here like a recklessly religious sectarian?

Quote: Lt. air force reserve

I don’t know how about the Tu-334 (recently they seem to choose what they will build An-148, Il-114, or Tu-334)

Il-114 finally sold and will do ... already from the backlog of Tashkent! 148 campaign crushed, but sorry! The car is good and the documentation was purchased, but Antonov retained technical support for the campaign.

Quote: Lt. air force reserve

that's for how the replacement of the Tu-204

Tu-204 MS seems, despite the angry stomping DAM- import substitute leg! Build! Really killed - cooperation is destroyed, so, from Zadeoa another 214 will be completed and that's it. Indeed, MS-21 is on its way, but for now it will be certified, the Boeing and the Airbus will bank. The 334 certified direct competitor to the Super Budget Po shot down on takeoff. So the campaign is an orphan of Kazan in single copies and will remain. Well, if MC-21 is suddenly really deployed, then remember the thought - the Super Budget will quietly merge and everyone will write off losses under fanfares about the successes of the aviation industry.

[PHANTOM-AS]

Quote: avt

Well, if the MC-21 is suddenly really deployed, then remember the thought - the Super Budget will quietly merge and everyone will write off the losses due to fanfare about the successes of the aviation industry.

Aha, but for us "keep here. Good mood and health" (c).

[avt]

Quote: PHANTOM-AS

Yeah, but for us "keep here. Good mood and health"

Well, for such grandmothers, I would have wished every morning for that and in the evening at night. By the way, A question for an adherent of the sect of the Superbudget, referring

Quote: Stas157

A site was created specifically for such delays here: http://superjet.wikidot.com/start
There you will find all the numbers!

What does it say about

From July 1, 2016, the Russian airline Red Wings will suspend commercial flights on regional aircraft Sukhoi Superjet 100 (SSJ 100), according to the Federal Air Transport Agency. The Office introduced appropriate restrictions at the request of the carrier itself. Their expiration date is unknown.

As explained in the materials of the Federal Air Transport Agency, Red Wings asked to introduce restrictions based on the results of a scheduled inspection of basic facilities, during which "inconsistencies with the requirements of air legislation" were discovered.

The Red Wings and the Federal Air Transport Agency refused to comment on the situation.

What kind of mismatches !? Well, at the same time, answer us already poor and wretched - for what successes in the successful commercial project of budget money development did the GSS withdraw the right to provide technical support for the Super Budget ??

[PHANTOM-AS]

Quote: avt

for what successes in the successful commercial project for the development of budget money did the GSS withdraw the right to technical support of the Super Budget ??

here are the key dates, provided that the 334th has been certified !!!
On March 11, 2003, the expert council considered it possible to recognize the RRJ project as the winner of the competition.

On February 17, 2006, KnAAPO began assembling the first RRJ (No. 97002), [9] on January 28, 2007 it was delivered to the An-124 from Komsomolsk-on-Amur to Zhukovsky for static tests at TsAGI. [10]
And we are losing a decade and a half, on a deliberately unprofitable project with a localization of 70% !!!
And this despite the fact that in the USSR it was one of the best, I would even say, the best school of aircraft construction.
It is to what extent it is necessary to destroy everything, so that after 30 years to rejoice only in the sample not launched into the series.

[Nforce]

Yeah, but for us "keep in a good mood" - something like this?

[Stas157]

Quote: avt

That is, we do not want to?

No I do not want to. On my specified site there is all the information of interest.

Quote: avt

Well, how many, again in numbers, "competitive" Superbudget countries have won that? Or can we only sleep with adjectives?

If you do not agree that the Superjet is competitive, then give specific examples of which aircraft are better and what!

Quote: avt

hospital average plane

Examples please, which plane is better? And how many such planes?

Quote: avt

Only the budget money was put into it and according to the criterion of cost - efficiency, in those days distant, now almost epic, the lads from the GSStop manager, promised themselves in especially large amounts for the tower, but - “We are not 37 years old.

The money spent on a superjet, on the contrary, is not big. And I believe that the project can pay off.

Quote: avt

Rhythmically disrupting the announced number of airplanes for BUDGET money and just as rhythmically pushing a commercially successful airplane into corners? Laughing Well, who here is pouring adjectives like a recklessly religious sectarian?

Nobody interrupted the production of aircraft, it was adjusted according to demand, nevertheless 105 issued aircraft (so far!), This is undoubtedly an achievement!

Quote: avt

148 crushed campaign, but sorry! The car is good and the documentation was purchased, but Antonov retained technical support for the campaign.

I don’t know why they make the morally obsolete An148, in which there is much more foreign, from the engines to the documentation for the aircraft itself, than in the modern Superjet!

Quote: avt

Tu-204 MS seems, despite the angry stomping DAM- import substitute leg! Build! Really killed

On the Tu-204CM, there really is no and there was no demand, from the word in general! But, nothing prevents it from producing! Its modification of the Tu-214 is still being produced.

[PHANTOM-AS]

Quote: Stas157

If you do not agree that the Superjet is competitive, then give specific examples of which aircraft are better and what!

Colleague, I respect you and apologize for getting in trouble
The conversation about this very SSJ has been going on for three years at the floor. for sure, but there are also special air sites where the designers, test pilots, and manufacturers made their case, I draw your attention in favor of the Tu-334, as an absolutely Russian aircraft, moreover, it has a certificate, but ...
Poghosyan and his ilk lobbied the SSJ for the budget, there was still a joke such as sepperpurr-jet = budget.
How do you think to take into production a plane with a localization of 70% and abandon yours, what is it? what to call it?

[Stas157]

Quote: PHANTOM-AS

I draw your attention in favor of the Tu-334, as an absolutely Russian aircraft, moreover, having a certificate, but ...
Poghosyan and his ilk lobbied the SSJ for the budget, there was still a joke such as sepperpurr-jet = budget. lol
How do you think to take into production a plane with a localization of 70% and abandon yours, what is it? what to call it?

All they can, gentlemen of all, say bad about the Superjet: "I drank the budget! Poghosyan's son! 70% foreign! (This is no longer true!)" And that's all! There is nothing more to cling to!
The plane is very good, competitive. The idea was to initially take all the best that is in the world and make a world-class aircraft out of it. Happened! And then gradually reduce the share of foreign components. (If there was an airplane, we can always replace our parts!) By the way, it is much smaller than in An148, which, for some reason, has no such complaints! The approach is right. In this way, the leaders of the aircraft industry Boeing with Airbus act in the creation of their aircraft! No other way.
Tu-334 is also not all Russian, it has foreign engines! Yes, even outdated. Any comparison of the Superjet with the Tu-334 will not be in favor of the latter. Of course, it is possible to produce the Tu-334, but is there any demand for it? More modern Tu-204SM do not want to take!

[avt]

Quote: Stas157

If you do not agree that the Superjet is competitive, then give specific examples of which aircraft are better and what!

The one that HUNDRED is bought by China, Iran and further on the list, unlike the Superbudget, which is simply imposed on the inside, and rubbed in with pieces with preferences.

Quote: Stas157

Examples please, which plane is better? And how many such planes?

See Boeing, Airbus, Embraer, which are massively, despite the attempts of Po, used in Russia.

Quote: Stas157

. And I believe that the project can pay off.

What do you actually think? Already invested money and profit? With constantly declared losses and attempted bankruptcy of the GSS, prevented by a budget infusion? Well then it’s for sure to a specialized specialist. I’m not a practicing psychiatrist.

Quote: Stas157

I don’t know why they make morally obsolete An148

For the fact that he flew lightly for 500 hours a month, until he bankrupt the airline and put the car on a joke. And the Red Wings could only strain the Super Budget by 300 and .... the company remained, and the cars were withdrawn from the fleet. Here's a commercial project ... successful.

Quote: Stas157

! (This is no longer true!) "And that's all! There is nothing more to cling to!
The plane is very good, competitive. The idea was to initially take all the best that is in the world and make a world-class aircraft out of it. Happened!

Well, a clean little child cried = this is not great-a-a-avdv! You are all lying! Well, or really a sectarian.

Quote: Stas157

Of course, it is possible to produce the Tu-334, but is there any demand for it? More modern Tu-204SM do not want to take!

Yes, there is nowhere for the same Red Wings to take the Tu-204CM NO IT, even at the request of the LADY - IMPORT SUBSTITUTE! "Suddenly" it turned out - there was nothing to do - the cooperation was KILLED, and in the days of Po. Well, this is Hari Super, Hari Po already really got tired of it. Well, what such a Superbudget is commercially successful at SUCH costs and the fact that it is stupidly shoved from the parking lot in Zhukovsky , wherever they can, but the same application from "Angara" for "obsolete", commercially unprofitable "was stupidly lost, under the guise of fulfilling the state order for An-148 in Voronezh for the needs of the Ministry of Emergencies and Ministry of Defense? Moreover, the Ministry of Emergency Situations got the Superbudget in the VIP configuration - they also financed the SCA budget from this side.

[Stas157]

Quote: avt

The one that HUNDRED is bought by China, Iran and further on the list, unlike the Superbudget, which is simply imposed on the inside, and rubbed in with pieces with preferences.

Quote: avt

See Boeing, Airbus, Embraer, which are massively, despite the attempts of Po, used in Russia.

Can you name a specific model? Or can you only figuratively? Writer! Brands, you see, you know, and now work on a specific model ...

Quote: avt

For the fact that he flew lightly for 500 hours a month, until he bankrupt the airline and put the car on a joke. And the Red Wings were able to strain the Super Budget only by 300 and ....

And where did you get that morally obsolete cannot fly for hours? The fact that it flies does not make it more competitive and economical!

Quote: avt

Well, a clean little child cried = this is not great-a-a-avdv! You are all lying! Well, or really a sectarian.

In vain you ruin the talent of a writer! Here, from you, not descriptive, theatrical scenes are expected, but objective arguments.)))

Quote: avt

Yes, there is nowhere for the same Red Wings to take the Tu-204CM NO EG

The plane is there. No orders!

[Mordvin 3]

Quote: Stas157

The plane is there. No orders!

Stas, catch a couple of facts:
Summer 2010g. President Medvedev agreed with B. Obama to purchase 50 Boeing aircraft worth 4 billion dollars, which, according to Obama, will give the US 44 thousand. work places.
2011: after the Yak-42 disaster, the president declares: "you do not know how to make your own aircraft, we will buy abroad."
So who orders planes from us, and where does the money go? At yesterday's presentation, DAM woke up from a lethargic sleep? Krrruto!

[avt]

Quote: Stas157

The plane is there. No orders!

This is definitely a super budget!

Quote: Stas157

and now bother the specific model ...

Gugel to help Here, knock on the clave, as I was advised recently with the Super Budget, and you will see what analogues of the Super Budget are from the last order of 300 (TRIST) airplanes for $ 38 billion, where are they going to the commercially successful licensed assembly of the Super Budget in China .... Or was this assembly covered with a copper basin? And how, by the way, is Vietnam doing with the Super Budget? Again, Gugel, to help with the Airbus deal with Iran on a specific contract for a line of airplanes to renew the Iranian fleet, and about the Bombardiers, do not forget to see who rolled their fan pieces onto 120 lips. Look and take pride in what "stupid Iranian-Chinese" obsolete airplanes, in contrast to the Superbudget, buys. Savages, sir, do not understand their happiness. But this is not an argument for the adherents of the Super Budget sect, it’s quite an adjective ..... an adjective to quite a specific air transportation, rather than a GESH using paper by means of a completely ordinary machine, nothing more than natural, promised not outstanding from the general number of machines. cry over your leisure time

Quote: avt

The first will be overwhelmed by the Superbudget - they will quietly write off the project as a loss, leaving the finished one to finish. If you carefully study the articles of "responsible comrades" on this pre-election presentation of the layout (when they fly a natural airplane into the air and even more so certify, I will not comment - time will tell, but we are lagging behind for sure), then there slipped infa about the creation of a "shortened" modification of the MS -21. Now compare this with those voiced back then, before the withdrawal By strained exclamations about the need to finance a "long", even more mega competitive version of the Superbudget.

Consoling yourself with a "niche" that no one will occupy anyway.

[Stas157]

Quote: avt

This is definitely a super budget!

I wrote this about the Tu-204SM, and not about the Superjet!

Quote: avt

Googel to help. Here, knock on the clave, as I was advised recently with the Super Budget.

I do not need Google, I already know that at the moment there is no better analogue of the Superjet! You tried to argue that the SSJ is a mediocre aircraft, but for some reason you do not want to provide data, but which plane is better?
So, knock on the clave yourself, in a futile attempt to find this very plane, a pesatel!

[Stas157]

Quote: avt

Googel to help. Here, knock on the clave.

Hey, pesatel! Is your creative fuse over or is your message limit? For starters, I’ll probably tell analogues SSZH-100!
Embraer 190, Bombardier CRJ1000, AN-148. None of the aircraft listed, IN ANYTHING, is better than the superjet you desperate for!
You can puff up and strain your talent as much as you like, denigrate the First Russian civilian plane in attempts, you won't have any adjectives, against stubborn facts!

[Lt. Air Force stock]

Quote: Alex_59

I do not like SSJ, for the ruined Tu-334.

I don’t know how about the Tu-334 (recently they seem to choose what they will build An-148, Il-114, or Tu-334)
But for how the replacement of the Tu-204 MS-21 was needed. Tu-204 was developed in the late 80s and early 90s, 26 years have passed already, the union collapsed because of this a large series did not work (by the way, the Tu-154 was built more than 1000 at the time), it was modernized several times, the latest version of Tu -204CM, but the glider essentially remained so, and in the MC-21 it’s completely wings (the wings, by the way, were made using some original technology) and the tail of the aircraft is made of composite materials, which greatly reduced the weight of the aircraft and, as a result, increased fuel efficiency.

[Arikkhab]

IL-114 and Tu-334 probably from different classes will be?

[samoletil18]

Quote: Engineer

more downtime than flying

The superset has an official site. Take a look at the sections, a lot of interesting things.
And remember how in the early 2000s, Ukraine, with the type of our patriots An-140 touted, demanded the abandonment of SSJ! A plane in a series, localization increase, foreigners charge, and the price has already grown for the buyer, which indicates interest in the car. The main thing is that Russia has carried out the whole complex of work from development to implementation, this alone paid off all the costs of SSJ! Forgot how the aircraft industry was killed for 20 years?

[avt]

Quote: samoletil18

! And the plane in the series,

Does anyone argue? Name it! Speaking of the series - how’s it with DAM’s demand for 30 cars a year by the GSS when they blew yards under 30 rubles, and those with sanctions, oil prices that were not delivered?

Quote: samoletil18

foreigners take

Announce the entire list of please. Do not forget a new, breakthrough into the Irish segment with ONE car, well, for additional benefits, they will descend and still take from those that are in Zhukovsky.

Quote: samoletil18

which indicates interest in the car.

Let me guess - past foreigners say about the interest of a foreign buyer to the Chinese who bought the Boeing, again ordered Iran .... The bus and the Bombardiers are spinning with turboprops, but what about Il-114? When they lifted to the wing and certified and it flies in a small series and when it will fly from Nizhny serially .... made from the backlog of TAPOim Chkalov?

Quote: samoletil18

that Russia carried out the whole range of work from development to implementation, one that paid off all the costs of SSJ!

To whom? Who paid for everything? Top managers from GSS? You read nonsense in the article that laid out here that negative experience is good and that the created team needs to be given money to overcome new heights in the aircraft industry? For such tricks Tupolev, who also had an open account, as Pau is now capitalized, during it with the whole team flew into the sharaga and dope quickly flew out of his head.

Quote: samoletil18

Forgot how the aircraft industry was killed for 20 years?

Who was the real accomplice? Who grabbed the ready-made and certified Tu-334, 204, which SM now wanted to do, but the elbow is close, but you won't bite. An 148 was squeezed by a state order in Vornezh, they were not allowed. All these are competitors of a mediocre machine - Superbudget. And he could not be like that - there are no fools with Boeing's intellectual property, and it was this kind of participation. Restrictions on forcing the engine from the French - what are they? Do you fool your competitors to produce? There was no such breakthrough airplane! So - glamorous greyness. Well, this is obvious to ANYONE who is not biased - after Russia was PROHIBITED to raise its stake in the Airbus concern from 4% to 10-20%, they threw the bone in the form of "cooperation in the market segment." The segment ended up in the form of a shisha - the market for just like that, no one will give it back, but they had a lot of fun with the budget. And everything would be fine. BUT! Sanctions and% with Evro jumped. "Everyone roared like bears ..." Right now, we'll replace the import with the supastat for evil! BUT

Curb it, crush it! - Just look: There is nothing to fight at the Twenty-seventh, And in the Thirtieth - the generals All are drowned in the well, And the vassals are striving to rebel ..

Well, thank God there is something to fight, but there’s nothing to fly on - according to Tu-204 CM, cooperation has been destroyed and what did Manturov say about GDP? IL-114, An-140 and Super Budget? Note - TU NO and An 148, which clocked up 500 hours a month and bought the documentation, too.

[Observer2014]

"The MS-21-200 is designed to carry from 132 to 165 passengers, the MS-21-300 is capable of lifting from 163 to 211 passengers on board."
The most frightening thing is the second digits! They should be banned altogether. Those who are above 180 will understand me. And those who do not understand, try to fit in a chair in three deaths. To hammer a nail in the head, to those who "thinks up" the distance between the seats for midgets to sculpt.

[Muvka]

Quote: Observer2014

"The MS-21-200 is designed to carry from 132 to 165 passengers, the MS-21-300 is capable of lifting from 163 to 211 passengers on board."
The most frightening thing is the second digits! They should be banned altogether. Those who are above 180 will understand me. And those who do not understand, try to fit in a chair in three deaths. To hammer a nail in the head, to those who "thinks up" the distance between the seats for midgets to sculpt.

So it will be longer. Although maybe I misunderstood you ...

[Leto]

Quote: Observer2014

Those who are above 180 will understand me. And who does not understand, in three deaths try to fit in a chair

Two options, near the emergency exit or in the front row after the business class, in any other way ...

[Rader]

Quote: Leto

Quote: Observer2014

Those who are above 180 will understand me. And who does not understand, in three deaths try to fit in a chair

Two options, near the emergency exit or in the front row after the business class, in any other way ...

Uh ... Doesn’t it seem that it’s not enough places (for those over 180)? I sat in place, near the emergency exit only once, and yes, it was convenient. And then it happened by accident! And so, do not ask how much ... Oh, my back and legs still hurt when I remember ... So, as the owner of growth 190, the numbers 165 and 211 passengers strain me the same ...

[samoletil18]

This is a question for the airlines. They need to charter people, like shove herring into a barrel. With my 176cm is also not ice! Compare comfort on domestic flights and charters.

[Observer2014]

I'm flying to Moscow on a Boeing 737-800, not in business class. No problem! Back flying that 154 of the same Siberia company. I'll repeat myself. Whoever placed a nail in the head in the last seat is ready to hammer in. It's just genocide. And nothing more And so it happened several times. I already tell the flight attendants. Write on your plane. Only for below 175. And to the point. I ask why you can sit quietly in Boeing?

[Alex_59]

Quote: Observer2014

I am flying to Moscow on a Boeing 737-800, not in business class. No problem! Back flying that 154 of the same company "Siberia"

There is no connection with the type of aircraft. It’s just that Bobik came across to you with a wider step of the chair, but Tupol didn’t. It could be the other way around. I've been flying from Moscow to Perm on the A319 from S7 with the growth of the 176, I sat sideways and rested my knees. But I'm not saying that the A319 is a bad plane. This is a great plane! Just such a layout - a super-economy.

[Leto]

Quote: Observer2014

! Back flying the 154 of the same company "Siberia"

Siberia Tu-154 were terrible, but thank God they haven’t been flying for many years.

[ARES623]

Quote: samoletil18

This is a question for the airlines. They need to charter people, like shove herring into a barrel. With my 176cm is also not ice! Compare comfort on domestic flights and charters.

There are standards for seating on an aircraft, depending on the flight time. But only. No company has the right and will not independently increase the number of seats on board without the manufacturer. He flew on many types of aircraft. With my 179 cm, I felt quite tolerable in the An-24 and Tu-134. SSJ left a pretty decent impression on me. Good or bad - things are completely subjective. Whom my mother gave birth to in Rolls Royce, he will look with disgust at the tags in Russian. And to hammer a nail in Tupolev's head (and to other general designers), I think, is decided by people who are not of great intelligence, in short, immensely stupid, who in life have done nothing more complicated than a ball of cow cake with their own hands. For especially great ones, I will inform you that when you come to check-in (sometimes even when buying a ticket), you can choose seats that are convenient for large growth. I personally succeeded when the need arose. Sorry for the harshness ... painful ...

[Alex_59]

Quote: Observer2014

Those who are above 180 will understand me. And who does not understand, try to fit in the chair in three deaths.

You talk as if bobby with watermelons in our eerie economy classes are equipped with other salons. This tight layout is the choice of the customer, not the manufacturer. And the customer (airlines) want to carry a lot and expensive for as few flights as possible. If they had been given the right, they would have stuffed us as passengers into our luggage. So the problem here is not with the MS-21, but with wild capitalism. MC-21 is simply forced to make a cabin with a super-economy layout, otherwise airlines will again choose watermelons and bobiks, where such an "Indian bus" layout is offered.

[ARES623]

Quote: Alex_59

You say so, as if the bobiki with watermelons in our terribly economy classes are equipped with other salons. Such a tight arrangement is the choice of the customer, not the manufacturer. And the customer (airline) wants to carry a lot and expensive for the lowest possible number of flights. If they were given the right, they would still push us into the luggage

According to the current standard, the distance between the seats depends on the conditions of use of the aircraft. If it is used only on local lines, on flights no longer than two hours, the step of the seats in economy class should be at least 750 mm. Does the plane carry out domestic flights lasting more than 2 hours? The minimum distance between the seats must be increased to 780 mm. In business class, the seat pitch in both cases will be 900 mm. There is an easy way to check if air transportation standards are being followed. If you are uncomfortable sitting and you seriously suspect that the company is violating the rules of the layout of the cabin in your favor - just check the step of the seats. To do this, note the two identical points of the two rows of seats (for example, the ends of the armrests, the top of the head restraints, etc.) and measure the distance between them. The data obtained are checked against the standards of the state standard, and in case of non-compliance you can send a letter indicating the violations found to the regulatory authorities. Do not forget that the industry standard of Russia applies only to airlines of this state. And do not need extra snot-yells. You think that you were deceived - demand, assert your rights. You may not achieve complete victory, but there will be satisfaction from the fact that you simply tried, and were not dumb cattle.

[Alex_59]

Quote: ARES623

According to the current standard, the distance between the seats depends on the conditions of use of the aircraft. If it is used only on local lines, on flights no longer than two hours, the step of the seats in economy class should be at least 750 mm.

Good idea. I did not think about it, I will remember.
True, on my flight the flight time to Moscow is 2:05, and back 1:55 (the wind is favorable, such a wind rose). This most likely makes it legal to fit 319 seats on a 28/30 "A156. So I was sitting diagonally in a 30" seat (762 mm).

[Scoun]

Despite this, Russia managed to develop a technology superior to the Boeing 787. In particular, it is difficult to believe that this technology relates to carbon fiber - the highlight of the Boeing 787.
When Boeing and Airbus technologists and specialists visited the AeroComposit-Ulyanovsk aircraft plant and saw the production line with their own eyes, they were extremely surprised: “We did not believe that the plant was capable of this until we saw it ourselves.”
When the plant director told me about his technologies, I also could not resist and said that I did not believe in it.

For the guys who did not believe that they work with composites))

http://rg.ru/2015/07/15/reg-pfo/krylo.html

Aggregates of composite materials for aircraft today are made by world leaders in the field of aircraft manufacturing - Airbus and Boeing. Aircraft manufacturers use the traditional - autoclave method, when carbon fiber fabric already impregnated with a special composition is laid out on the surface in several layers and placed in the furnace. This technology is quite complex, the process is limited in time.

At "AeroComposite" they went the other way: they use the method of vacuum infusion. This decision was quite bold: to this day, no one in the world has yet manufactured power structures for civil aircraft in this way. But the developers felt that they should not follow on the heels of Western companies - it would be difficult to catch up with them. And now I managed to stand in at least one row.

[Muvka]

I don’t understand anything about this, but is it safe? :)

[Leto]

Quote: Muvka

I don’t understand anything about this, but is it safe? :)

The wings have been made with composites for a long time, and the fuselage, though the autoclave method is very expensive, therefore, is available only to giants. They fly and do not fall apart.

[Vadim237]

The time will come and the entire fuselage will be printed on 3D printers - powder composites.

[Leto]

Quote: Scoun

At "AeroComposite" they went the other way: they use the method of vacuum infusion. This decision was quite bold: to this day, no one in the world has yet manufactured power structures for civil aircraft in this way. But the developers felt that they should not follow on the heels of Western companies - it would be difficult to catch up with them. And now I managed to stand in at least one row.

You forgot to name the authorship of this technology, Austrian ...

[Scoun]

Quote: Leto

You forgot to name the authorship of this technology, Austrian ...

and I honestly didn’t know. It will be necessary to read the thread. Thank.

Quote: Muvka

I don’t understand anything about this, but is it safe? :)

Well, on the dreamliner, they seemed to find a crack ..

Union of Russian Aircraft Manufacturers
aviationunion.ru ›news_second.php ...
Boeing discovered cracks in the wings of the new Dreamliners. In mid-February, the Japanese company Mitsubishi Heavy Industries, producing the wing for the Dreamliner, said ...

[Leto]

Quote: Scoun

and I honestly didn’t know. It will be necessary to read the thread

Quote: Scoun

Well, on the dreamliner, they seemed to find a crack ..

The wings of the MC-21 are made according to the technology of the Austrian company FACC "transfer molding of plastics using vacuum (VaRTM)", while the Japanese make wings for Boeing using a prepreg and an autoclave.
What's the point. Carbon fiber is poured with polymer to obtain a composite semi-finished product in the form of a web, this is "prepreg". Then, parts are formed from it by folding in several layers and strengthening in an autoclave. The prepreg requires special storage conditions to maintain its performance.
VaRTM technology consists in the fact that a part is formed from carbon fiber in advance and the fiber is filled with plastic, then the composite is hardened. This is roughly speaking. VaRTM has its own difficulties in washing out carbon fiber and it’s difficult to make large / complex parts. VaRTM Boeing makes only the tail. The FACC Austrians figured out how to make large parts with the help of VaRTM technology without losing quality. The layers of carbon fiber are fixed with thermoplastic which is melted by a laser, thereby the shape which is then filled with polymer is not lost. The part is monolithic and much stronger than the prepregs glued in the autoclave. Therefore, the problems that the Boeing received on the 787 from the MS-21 should not be.

[Lt. Air Force stock]

Quote: Scoun

At "AeroComposite" they went the other way: they use the method of vacuum infusion. This decision was quite bold: to this day, no one in the world has yet manufactured power structures for civil aircraft in this way. But the developers felt that they should not follow on the heels of Western companies - it would be difficult to catch up with them. And now I managed to stand in at least one row.

It was necessary not only to build wings, but also to build the fuselage from composite materials, the more% of composite materials used in a glider, the easier the aircraft, therefore, less fuel consumption.
If I am not mistaken, Boeing in their 787 has already begun to introduce composite materials into the fuselage.

[Scoun]

Quote: Lt. air force reserve

If I am not mistaken, Boeing in their 787 has already begun to introduce composite materials into the fuselage.

I am far from this topic, but as I understood at first, composites were used in places that did not affect .... how to say it right? (((in general, the integrity of the aircraft and now they trust the composites of the wings (although there are huge loads)) and they began to trust the "tail" and it is the same part of the fuselage. Something like this))) I read this scientific and technical part, but it's hard for me technical language, and indeed tongue-tied me

[avg-mgn]

175 cars - a very serious figure. Even if five years old, anyway. Will there be enough resources? Are the personnel ready and a host of other questions. I do not want to sit in a puddle if the traders did not agree on something with the manufacturer.

[iliitchitch]

The greatest achievement. We were able to make a PLANE. Where is my Mauser?

[Leto]

Quote: iliitch

The greatest achievement. We were able to make a PLANE. Where is my Mauser?

You should not sarcasm. The MS-21 is an advanced machine, we did not do anything similar before, the Superjet is a wooden block of the last century compared to it. Not only that, in the world there are only two companies capable of making modern cars A and B, we are returning to the elite club, of course they are not really waiting for us there, but they will have to be considered.

[iliitchitch]

Quote: Leto

but they will have to be reckoned with.

I don’t understand - the President, the Prime Minister, deputy prime ministers and ministers gathered for a PRESENTATION. The fact that this is a thing - I do not argue, why shake something? From this, he will not continue to fly.

[Anglorussian]

there are only two companies in the world capable of making modern machines A and B

Four like? (Embraer + Bombardier).

[Al1977]

Quote: Leto

Not only that, in the world there are only two companies capable of making modern machines A and B,

And Canadians from Bombardier were written off? They also have a decent market share.

[i80186]

Well, the Tu-154 is already 60 years of development. Half a century is still a long time. What other fully civilian medium-range aircraft were produced in our country? Yak-42, again, the development of the 70s. So probably yes, for us this is an achievement.

[Vadim237]

Now we are waiting for the creation of a wide-body Frigate Ecojet

[keeper03]

Yes, it’s time to lift it already on the wing and bring down competitors !!!
We look here: http://www.frigate-ecojet.ru

[avt]

Quote: keeper03

Yes, it’s time to lift it already on the wing and bring down competitors !!!

The first will be overwhelmed by the Superbudget - they will quietly write off the project as a loss, leaving the finished one to finish. If you carefully study the articles of "responsible comrades" on this pre-election presentation of the layout (when they fly a natural airplane into the air and even more so certify, I will not comment - time will tell, but we are lagging behind for sure), then there slipped infa about the creation of a "shortened" modification of the MS -21. Now compare this with those voiced back then, before the withdrawal By strained exclamations about the need to finance a "long", even more mega competitive version of the Superbudget.

[wizarden]

Adventure this Frigate. There will be nothing.

[andranick]

Yes, an achievement, double!
We are launching an electrical substation, so the problems are above the roof. Dolb-izm and nonsense of allies, designers and customers just rolls over.
So yes, to ORGANIZE and FIT production and interaction with subcontractors is ALREADY an achievement. It’s doubly an achievement - because the new product was assembled, using new technologies, not only money was invested, but some person-years of life and soul (what kind of designer doesn’t invest a soul in his brainchild?).

[Ivan Tucha]

I hope it is not as crowded as the airbases and Boeing.

[Alex_59]

Quote: Ivan Tucha

I hope it is not as crowded as the airbases and Boeing.

The passage is wider, the ceiling is higher. The seat pitch is determined by the wishes of the customer (airline). On daily flights "Zamkadovsk-Moscow", as usual, there will be economy options with the most dense layout, so do not hope. The grin of capitalism is like that.

[Ivan Tucha]

I just remember that I flew to the seas. sitting is not possible. but I’m only 180 cm tall, and not a big one.

[salad]

I read on another resource that this aircraft is equipped with the PRESIDENT-S missile defense system. It would be cool.

[Engineer]

A funeral day for a cuckoo in the nest of the domestic aviation industry - Poghosyanjet! Yakovlevites and Irkutsk fellows - Yak-242 \ MS-21 - the first new domestic aircraft after the collapse of the Union. I hope he will be able to supplant the antediluvian Boeing-737 and Erbasiki from our passenger transportation market

[sgr291158]

Well, it seems like the domestic aviation industry is being revived

[castle]

The history of the project began in the mid-70s of the last century. Yak-242. Of course, much has changed since then. And production technology and electronics and engines. The car seems to be great. You can’t hit your face in the mud after so many years of development. Only here are a few questions and perplexities that arose after reading Russian newspapers and magazines.
1) With what engines does the first car take off? Not at all with the Russians!
2) How can there be a 100% Russian aircraft if foreign components take place in it?
3) Equipment (machines and technologies), project software, to put it mildly, not entirely Russian.
4) How will the after-sales service be provided if the airline is purchased by a foreign (from far abroad) airline? Have you calculated the costs?

Sources of information -
http://www.gazeta.ru/army/2016/06/08/8291477.shtml,
http://izvestia.ru/news/617229
http://rg.ru/2016/06/08/reg-sibfo/dmitriiu-medvedevu-pokazali-novyj-rossijskij-s
amolet-ms-21.html
and many others

[Wolka]

I hope the yak-designers finally bothered to equip the airplane with external and internal video recorders, which in case of emergency allows visually to clearly record what actually happened and happens with the airplane in flight, both inside and out ...

[Al1977]

Quote: Volka

I hope the yak-designers finally bothered to equip the airplane with external and internal video recorders allowing in case of emergency to visually record what actually happened and happens with the airplane in flight, both inside and out

What should these cameras shoot? Passengers? The backs of the pilots? But what is it outside? There is no such need.

[Stabilization]

this is today:

In the US state of Georgia, two F-16 fighters of the South Carolina National Guard Air Force crashed on Tuesday evening in a mid-air collision, NBC reported.

[Muvka]

Quote: Stabilization

this is today:

In the US state of Georgia, two F-16 fighters of the South Carolina National Guard Air Force crashed on Tuesday evening in a mid-air collision, NBC reported.

This news is more than a week like. Or is it again?

[Stabilization]

Again, this is for today.

[ermak.sidorov]

It's YET! The guys didn’t seem to have changed at night - it’s dark, and the planes seem to be "invisible" ... well, at least the flyers did not hurt themselves to death (as they say in their eyes). Cheats gravity lately not indifferent to American aircraft ...

[Dr dron]

The plane, like an airplane, cares differently about how this project will be implemented by our managers ... Now, even if you raise the Tu-154, due to the high exchange rate, leasing payments for foreign equipment are high and even the old man’s fuel inefficiency is no longer important. Only aeroflot can contact the new Russian technology, as only he has real state support, while other companies cannot afford such luxury. Look at recent events with redwings and a superjet.

[atamankko]

Russia is the creator of such people.

[msm]

Something I do not like the prefixes "200" and "300". Cargo-200 and cargo-300. Didn't the liberals put their pen to the name of the plane ?! And the rest - hurray!

[Genry]

See statistics on how many people died at your age and drink poison.

[msm]

What?! Is Diman so called? Let him take the poison with you.

[iwakura]

don't be silly
labeling is the same as that used by Americans -
B-737-200, 737-300, etc.
this is the dimension within the same model of the aircraft (due to the lengthening of the fuselage before and after the wings, without changing other things).
the longer version takes more passengers, but also takes off heavier and spends more fuel (range less, engine life is also likely to be reduced)
ps: minus is not mine.
Europeans just have numbers in a row
AB-319,320,321

[Forever so]

This turns out to replace the TU-154 ?, medium-range. God bless the new aircraft with a high sky and a safe landing. Still, the Voronezh Aircraft Plant revive. Well done Irkutsk !!!

[GAndr]

I saw the first pictures with this airplane in booklets back at the MAKS in 1997 ... Then I thought it was a pity of course, but everything, as always, will die out, but no, they did it all the same - GOOD FELLOWS!

I wonder what kind of louse is minus? And most importantly for what? :)))

[ermak.sidorov]

Dear, you yourself have already answered your own question - it is a "louse" by nature and is a louse ... it has not gone far from the nit =)

[eugene]

Don't fight for "+", fight for the truth. I think it will feel better.

[RuslanNN]

Wait, that can't be. After all, the Russian economy is torn to shreds. What kind of wrong are these Russians. Poor Obama Probably swelled with grief and Validol drinks in batches.

[What a]

Yes, yes, and according to Kudrin, our country is technologically behind. This one also thumps and grabs Validol, worries bastard for his own (his among strangers).

[Vadim237]

You can already forget about Obama - in November he will be kicked out of the White House in the ass.

[Garris199]

Quote: RuslanNN

What kind of wrong are these Russians.

And their country is some kind of wrong gas station.

[iwakura]

It is not clear what is the advantage of the MS-21 over the same TU-204, which has similar characteristics, and has been in operation for 20+ years, and there are quite modern modifications? The localization there is close to 100%, but no one is running to order Tu-204 in packs, they, as a result, are made a few pieces a year for the government squadron

[firefighter]

The bird is smart, necessary, beautiful. And it flies beautifully, as the Great Classic of Aviation said,

[Paul zewike]

Good news! It will be even better if the engines are only ours.

[mitrich]

Install electronic warfare on civilian ships, that's smart!
It’s interesting, but if, for all the liners of our airlines, to hang electronic warfare from the budget, in the light of the current situation, I think that security would increase greatly! Why don’t they hang them on SuperJets? Even if it saves one ship in the end, the game is worth the candle.

PySy: And then the iPhone Maker was noted .... It would be better if the clock hands would turn back and forth, there would be almost no harm.

[eugene]

Anyone can carry a bomb on board, especially in "hot Africa".
Well ... EW what will it do? EW World's mess is not to win.

[Pitot]

It’s hard for me to judge - it’s still not connected with the sky. Let's see how this bird will fly .....

[Tolik_74]

Yankees from Boeing and half-jigsaw from Airbus get nervous

[Estet59]

The car is a masterpiece! But there is a question for a purely land. The commander’s control knob is located under the left hand. How convenient is it? Specialists, tell us. And the plane has long trouble-free flights!

[keeper03]

The news is certainly wonderful and long-awaited for all Russians! But, if it is an airplane of the XNUMXst century, then excuse me, where does it have wingtips (winglets), where does it have an ellipsoidal fuselage section ?!
I’m silent about the NK-32 engines, the PD-14 is also not bad, but maybe until it is certified, we still put it on the wing and fly in our country?!?

[Backfire]

Great news, finally began to make new civilian aircraft.

[kolexxx]

Well done !!! Great success! A qualitatively different plane.
The government would need to help the project, as the United States does - legally establish that on domestic flights, 95% of the equipment should only be produced. Because the unnecessary abundance of small and medium-sized air carriers provides the basis for Boeing and Airbus to bribe owners and induce them to purchase Western aircraft.

[Knight Rider]

Ay Krasava! Thanks to everyone who created this miracle!

[ASK505]

On board the plane, the name of the wonderful aircraft designer Yakovlev. Such events are encouraging, but something else excites. Signs and symbols rule the world, not words or the law. Our life is arranged in such a way that all our thoughts and decisions are formed around symbols and myths - this is a property of human consciousness. It shapes our personalities and our society. This is our matrix, our foundation, our bonds and the connection of time. Without this, we are no one and they call us nothing. Behind us are the legendary KB machines that are known and remembered in the world market: “Yak”, “Il”, “Tu”. This is the heroic work of engineers and specialists, it is our pride and glory. Refusing memory, one’s history, one’s name is a crime. Then why do we continue to read and hear faceless words without a clan and tribe: "PAKFA", "SUPERJET", "MS-21". Change the stars on the Kremlin towers with the Mercedes or Coca-Cola logos, replace the monuments, rename the squares and streets, and the city will gradually begin to lose its face and history. This is all serious, since interception in consciousness begins with interception by symbols. If the control of consciousness is intercepted, then there will be no independence. Why not immediately imagine this beautiful car as the Yak-242? What do you think, forum users

[keeper03]

You are absolutely right !!!

[Knight Rider]

Quote: ASK505

Behind us are the legendary KB machines that are known and remembered in the world market: “Yak”, “Il”, “Tu”. This is the heroic work of engineers and specialists, it is our pride and glory. Refusing memory, one’s history, one’s name is a crime. Then why do we continue to read and hear faceless words without a clan and tribe: "PAKFA", "SUPERJET", "MS-21".

No one refuses. "PAK FA" - this is short for "Perspective Aviation Complex of Frontline Aviation", a 5th generation fighter developed by the Sukhoi Design Bureau, when it goes into mass production, it will receive the name "Su-XX"(Su-50S, for example)
SUPERJET is a civilian model of a Sukhoi aircraft - Sukhoi Superjet-100
MS-21 - "Trunk Aircraft of the 21st century" is a civilian model of a passenger liner from OJSC "NPK Irkut"formed from Yakovlev. The first plane shows their logos.

Quote: ASK505

Why not immediately imagine this beautiful car as the Yak-242? What do you think, forum users

Hello! And what side is the current MS-21 to the Yak-242, which existed only at the outline design level without drawings and deep calculation? When did it start development MS-21? Here is what we know from open sources:
"October 29, 2010, Aviation Explorer - TsAGI has completed preliminary studies of the characteristics of the air intakes of the MC-21 aircraft engines, which are possible for use in accordance with outline design. The specialists of the aerodynamics department of the Institute’s power plants analyzed the operation of engine air intakes: RB 285-70E (Rolls-Royce), PD-14 (Aviadvigatel OJSC) and PW1000G (Pratt & Whitney). The work was commissioned by OJSC IRKUT and OJSC Aviadvigatel.

Preliminary design! Those. in 2010, even the design of the aircraft has not begun, i.e. not a single drawing, except for this engine nacelle, existed! And of course, there is not much left of the Yak-242 preliminary design ...

[ASK505]

Let not the Yak-242. The numbers may be different. It is not important. Read carefully. You cannot call a car with letters without a family and tribe, having behind the great names of KB: Tupolev, Yakovlev, which in our aviation history are symbols known to the whole world. Our "partners" in the West will never replace famous brands with a set of letters. Bye!

[Knight Rider]

Quote: ASK505

Let not the Yak-242. The numbers may be different. It is not important. Read carefully. You cannot call a car with letters without a family and tribe, having behind the great names of KB: Tupolev, Yakovlev, which in our aviation history are symbols known to the whole world. Our "partners" in the West will never replace famous brands with a set of letters. Bye!

I deciphered the meaning of these letters and numbers in a previous post. The first aircraft bears the name of Alexander Sergeevich Yakovlev, on board there is the logo of his design bureau, with the leading participation of which the new aircraft was designed. About what "without clan and tribe" you are talking here is not clear. This is "Yak", and "MS-21" is the designation of the model.

[ASK505]

Please read carefully. We are talking about symbols and traditions that govern consciousness and the world. On board was supposed to be the abbreviation of the legendary "Yak", and not fantasy in giant letters in the form of "MS-21". This is a global tradition tied to serious business. Nobody knows the letters "MC" in the world, and this does not mean anything to a buyer abroad. The ship is launched already with a name. Then they finish building. A person is born, and then he will be presented with a name that he will bring throughout his life, and not with a set of letters and numbers for the maternity hospital in huge letters on a blanket in the hands of a happy dad. The fact that this is a main plane can be said in pursuit after the announcement of the car's native name. The abbreviation "ms" is hammered into the head in huge letters, which does not say anything to the world and Russia. The modest inscription of the designer Yakovlev is not visible. In the same place on Turkish Boeings one can also see inscriptions of various names. So what? This is Boeing. I want to be wrong about this, but this is how they erase the memory and take over the control of consciousness. The name "Lada-Niva" has long been owned by the Americans. We are left with a Lada 4X4. There are doubts that these overseas "partners" also bought the logo "Tu" and "Yak" of civilian vehicles when they destroyed Aviaprom. Therefore, they impose on us all sorts of alien to our hearing "PACKS, SUPERJETS and MSY". You need to think about those who will come after us, about the connection of times and our bonds from the Second World War: the legendary Yak-3,
Yak-9, Tu-2, IL-2. There are our aviation roots.

[iouris]

No more non-standard tu, yaks, silts. There are two brands left: Boeing and Airbus.
The issue of conformity confirmation comes across the US Federal Aviation Administration (FAA), and without them no one can buy a plane.
You can’t even dream of competitiveness: the problem is a drop in domestic airline traffic. For a country like ours, this has disastrous consequences.
In general, SSJ is Boeing, and they bought the project in a ruined state, for some reason, in Brazil under a different brand. While the SSJ was being made at Sukhoi's firm, competitors built several variants with higher performance. French engines for SSJ were certified in Europe with a dangerous design and manufacturing defect that persisted: destruction of the impeller of one of the turbine stages.

[chunga-changa]

Well, great news, it's high time. Good luck to Irkutsk.

[Ze Kot]

And what about the two versions, with the same amount of fuel and a difference in mass of 7 tons, the difference in flight range is only 100 km?

[Ilya77]

They modestly kept silent that while the engine will be American, because Permians with their PD-14 are lagging behind. This is sad.

[Knight Rider]

Quote: Ilya77

They modestly kept silent that while the engine will be American, because Permians with their PD-14 are lagging behind. This is sad.

Even when the PD-14 appears, the American will remain in the option. The customer will be able to choose from 2 engines, for example, a Western airline is more profitable than an American one - please ...

[Alex_Tug]

Permians catch up, they have a lot of time. 5-7 years.

[iouris]

What are the reasons to consider this car Russian?
I believe that in order to certify this product, it was necessary to use Boeing CAD, and they are selling far from the most advanced version. Well, American engines are already beyond good and evil.

[erik cartman]

Quote: Spartanez300

Our factory will certainly not remain without work, by the way, recently I saw the MS-21 already circled in the sky. Today at the presentation there were 800 people, including 300 foreigners. Mr. Medvedev was also present with his retinue.

God grant that your plant works. And the fact that DAM was with his retinue portends trouble. No money, good mood to you :)

[Governor]

Oh well. Now estimate that now it would fly if the USSR remained alive. You and Lada West already seems to be an interstellar ship.
And now we wait until these ms21 are made 300 pieces only to the domestic market and the ticket price will be humane. Wangyu - do not wait.

[Al_lexx]

Bursting with pride, for the native KB. Started in it, his labor. Just when preparing for the release of the Yak-141, from which the Americans drew their 35-th penguin. Sobsna, there the main feature was in the rotary nozzle and some circuitry. The penguin's glider is new, although not the fact that it is better than 141.
And also ... I managed to sit in the cockpit of the British-Helicon SiHarier, who was with us, in the experimental assembly room. )))

...
I would also understand that the Tupolevites, in addition to modernization and reincarnation of the old backlogs ...
The rest of the aviation brands, it seems, have risen from their knees and the "dominance" of Sukhoi is already in the past.

[Al_lexx]

Quote: KnightRider

Quote: ASK505

Let not the Yak-242. The numbers may be different. It is not important. Read carefully. You cannot call a car with letters without a family and tribe, having behind the great names of KB: Tupolev, Yakovlev, which in our aviation history are symbols known to the whole world. Our "partners" in the West will never replace famous brands with a set of letters. Bye!

I deciphered the meaning of these letters and numbers in a previous post. The first aircraft bears the name of Alexander Sergeevich Yakovlev, on board there is the logo of his design bureau, with the leading participation of which the new aircraft was designed. About what "without clan and tribe" you are talking here is not clear. This is "Yak", and "MS-21" is the designation of the model.

+1

This is precisely the YAK that was originally developed in the Design Bureau of A.S. Yakovlev (almost ten years ago) and further, with the assistance of. And makeup, here, is purely for the press and other shkolota.
I already wrote today in the FB, one young lady, that this is not a proper name for the aircraft, as such, but an advertising campaign in order to increase prestige. illustrious design bureau. And the plane is not rootless, but it’s Yak.
For the "especially gifted", this is the Yak MS-21.
All.

...
We are waiting for the short-haul "Yak-BMS-xx". )) In this thread, the yashki were great. I flew both the forty and forty-second. Excellent, minibus and bus, with wings!

[Tu-214R]

We are waiting for the short-haul "Yak-BMS-xx". )) In this thread, the yashki were great. I flew both the forty and forty-second. Excellent, minibus and bus, with wings!

Why is it needed? The short-range niche is occupied by the superjet, they are going to resume the production of IL-114 (so that they can take off / land on the runways from shit like in Bodaibo). There are AN-148, as well as all sorts of Bombardier Canadair there. For what?

[eugene]

"The first word is more precious than the second" So we tried to achieve the truth in childhood.
The first word of "our" prime minister on the podium during the removal of the MS-21 was ....
"COOL"....
The level of development is stuck at the level of 13-14 years, but it remained there.
Ministry of Young Idiots.

[eugene]

"Meanwhile, Rostec reported that anti-missile protection could be installed on the new liner."
Do you not notice how "this crazy world" is heading towards the abyss?
If earlier no one could even think of an attack (attack) on an intercontinental airliner, now everyone is having fun with it, even schoolchildren with laser pointers!
And this is just one minor of the many signs of planned chaos.

[eugene]

The "glass cockpit" dramatically reduces the amount of information displayed simultaneously. How many instruments were there in the old cabins? I understand, automation, computerization ... that's good. But how to replace more electromechanical devices and their information content in case of emergencies, especially in case of problems with the power supply of the aircraft?
Dangerous fascination with beauty. Fashion.

[Alex_Tug]

For this, there are batteries. The first batch of batteries on the Boeing 787 had to be thrown out. Flamed up.

[sa-ag]

"... The ceremony was attended by Russian Prime Minister Dmitry Medvedev, Deputy Prime Ministers Arkady Dvorkovich and Dmitry Rogozin"

Bad luck, triple ... :-)

[qwert]

Than tryndet about possible commercial demand would be better informed about what engines are and how many components of domestic production on the plane. And then to help sell the products of Collins, Pratt & Whitney, Dupont, Mischallin and others is, excuse me, not a reason for pride

[Ros 56]

Well, finally rolled out. In my opinion, they have been ringing about this plane for about ten years, but it's still gone. Previously, even before the tests, the general public did not know anything, but now they probably carried out an axial drawing and it was like talking tomorrow. But by and large, of course, I’m glad that not everyone profiled, we must continue to do so, and in all areas of industry.

[iouris]

In a country that does not have an aircraft certification system recognized by the US and the EU, it is impossible to produce aircraft without using imported technologies. The aircraft price is determined by the market. The "cheap" MC-21 may be a gift for low-cost airlines, but it is unprofitable for the manufacturer, because how can you make a cheap plane with American engines, French fuel automatics and other components with a "cheap" ruble? Will the deficit be covered by the FIU? This is how economic sanctions look like.

[demotivator]

Quote: iouris

Well, finally rolled out. In my opinion, they have been ringing about this plane for about ten years, but it's still gone.

That's it, that "rolled out". And what is actually pumped out? Is this a finished car? As announced, the first flight is expected in almost a year - in February 2017. What exactly will happen for 8 months with this liner? Or is it still a layout? So the full-size models were shown in 2011. More recently, in September 2014, Dmitry Rogozin announced that the MC-21 would definitely "make its first flight in April 2016". http://www.ato.ru/content/rogozin-nazval-sroki-poleta-pervogo-ms-21 Now the dates have been rescheduled again. Very similar to the story of the Sukhoi Superjet.

[iouris]

Be careful, it seems that you violate copyright pranva.

[Alex_Tug]

Totally right, waiting for the fate of the superjet.
To get this piece of paper worked 7 years. Here, work has not yet begun.

[Tishka]

As rolled out, and roll! Where did Ily, 86 and 96 go? Who put his paw to the purchase of American scrap! All those who were at the presentation of the new aircraft! And given the lack of leasing in our country, then many companies will simply not be able to buy them, so everything is beautiful on paper, but they forgot about the ravines!

[Al1977]

Quote: Silence

As rolled out, and roll! Where did Ily, 86 and 96 go? Who put his paw to the purchase of American scrap! All those who were at the presentation of the new aircraft! And given the lack of leasing in our country, then many companies will simply not be able to buy them, so everything is beautiful on paper, but they forgot about the ravines!

Here: http: //www.ato.ru/content/sravnenie-ekspluatacionnoy-ekonomiki-il-96-300-ib
oeing-767-300-na-opyte-aeroflota
If you are too lazy to read, a brief summary:
"To service the Moscow-Seoul route with a passenger traffic of 100 thousand people a year, the airline needs either two Il-96s or one Boeing 767. Then, for flights on the Il-96, it will need to employ 44 flight specialists, and on a western plane, only 14 pilots. The domestic aircraft will consume 16 thousand tons more fuel, which means additional expenses for the airline in the amount of 9,5 million dollars (the calculation was made in March, when the average price per ton of fuel reached 592,6 dollars). expenses for flight support (air navigation, airport taxes, crew salaries) will amount to $ 1,87 million - again not in favor of the IL-96. On the other hand, under the item "Maintenance of the aircraft in good condition, leasing payments and maintenance of flight technical personnel "the western plane will be more expensive than the Il-96 by 4,9 million dollars a year. However, one should pay attention to the fact that this difference in favor of the Il-96 arose due to its" old age ": the period of depreciation deductions for Il- 96 is almost expired.
As a result, when summing up all expense items, it turns out that on the Moscow-Seoul route, transportation is 100 thousand passengers. the IL-96 will cost the airline $ 6,5 million a year more expensive than the Boeing 767. If we compare the new IL-96 and Boeing 767 (even taking into account state subsidies for customs payments), this difference will increase.

[Al1977]

And in the meantime:
“European aircraft manufacturer Airbus has 3D printed an unmanned aerial vehicle (UAV). The model, called Thor, was produced in a month and has already started flying.”)))

[Nirvanko]

I'm so sick of these leavened patriots, they'll trash any topic. There’s no way without Obama and crests, you can’t just be happy?

[Nirvanko]

Quote: demotivator

Quote: iouris

Well, finally rolled out. In my opinion, they have been ringing about this plane for about ten years, but it's still gone.

That's it, that "rolled out". And what is actually pumped out? Is this a finished car? As announced, the first flight is expected in almost a year - in February 2017. What exactly will happen for 8 months with this liner? Or is it still a layout? So the full-size models were shown in 2011. More recently, in September 2014, Dmitry Rogozin announced that the MC-21 would definitely "make its first flight in April 2016". http://www.ato.ru/content/rogozin-nazval-sroki-poleta-pervogo-ms-21 Now the dates have been rescheduled again. Very similar to the story of the Sukhoi Superjet.

Static and other tests will be carried out. In the production shops of Irkut there are already several aircraft in varying degrees of readiness. Only cats are born quickly, don’t worry - the plane will go into series.

[Nirvanko]

I see a separate category of individuals started singing the same songs about the MS-21 that they once sang about the SSJ-100

[Tishka]

For Al1977 (2), from an economic point of view, you are absolutely right! But how many of these planes, bought on the cheap, landed ahead of time? Taking away priceless human lives is the first factor, and if you count, how many people were fired from those who assembled domestic aircraft? They won’t fly anywhere, unless from the stove to the bench, the reduction in production and the collapse of the ruble have led to the fact that half, if not more, of vacationers will remain at home! Here is another economic component, that flights are beyond the means of ordinary people, but they stimulate the West to sell or lease all the rubbish to us, the flights of which are prohibited in their country, and to build new planes for ourselves, providing jobs , and the passenger traffic that is on it will fly! So, benefit is a double-edged sword! And our valiant Central Bank is also pouring money into the American economy, instead of developing its production! If you have not yet seen those times when a plane ticket to Sochi cost 18 rubles, with the average salary in the country being 120 rubles! And now gasoline has been raised to 35 rubles per liter, and the government is wondering why prices for everything are rising? But transport, without fuel, will not bring anything anywhere, and this is a component of the price, and we, driving oil to the West, also invest money there, ensuring not ours, but theirs, production growth, and jobs!

[Al1977]

Quote: Silence

! But how many of these planes, bought on the cheap, landed ahead of time?

How many? I don’t remember the B767 crash at Aeroflot due to “cheapness”.

[Al1977]

Quote: Silence

Here is another economic component, that flights are beyond the means of ordinary people, but they stimulate the West to sell or lease all the rubbish to us, the flights of which, in their country, are prohibited

Where did you get this nonsense from? What rubbish? You are talking about Aeroflot's new A320, A320NEO and B737-800 S7.
Or are you talking about Transaero’s 747, but it’s old. But this company has not killed a single passenger during its entire operation!!!
A set of amateur cliches, please don’t destroy your brain with nonsense, it’s disgusting to read, there’s enough nonsense as it is, there are also “experts” here.

[Al1977]

Quote: Silence

And now gasoline has been raised to 35 rubles per liter, and the government is wondering why prices for everything are rising? But transport, without fuel, will not bring anything anywhere, and this is a component of the price, and we, driving oil to the West, also invest money there, ensuring not ours, but theirs, production growth, and jobs!

It's Obama's fault, didn't you know??!!
And Putin is a handsome man. So hang in there, all the best to you, health, good luck.

[Mih]

It’s beautiful, it’s infectious, it means it will fly great. Looks like a dolphin - handsome.

[wizarden]

The main task set before the MS-21 developers was to make a modern aircraft that can be sold for export. For this purpose, all related companies that participate in the project, not to mention the main production facility in Irkut, have been re-equipped with the latest technology. The production of modern materials, assembly technologies, and avionics was mastered.

Guys, once again - we, who have not made new passenger aircraft, not counting the flawed SSJ, since the 80s of the last century, have made an aircraft that will really compete with A and B on equal terms. The significance of this program for our entire aviation industry cannot be overestimated.

What was shown at the presentation is not a mock-up. This is the first flight prototype. It is he who will take off early next year. Most likely, minor changes will be made to the design of the aircraft before the flight based on the results of the statistics. tests and other studies, but it will not be radically altered. With the modern level of design this is practically impossible.

It will take off with an American engine, which is already installed on it. It’s a pity, of course, that this is not a PD-14. He still has more than a year of intensive testing ahead of him; you can’t fly with him yet. The development cycle for a new engine is much longer than that of a new aircraft model. And so far everything is optimistic with our engine - according to the first tests, they say it turned out successful.

So there is reason for joy, yes!

[Al1977]

Quote: wizarden

who did not make new passenger aircraft, not counting the defective SSJ

And WHAT is his defect????!!!
"Irish regional airline CityJet announced on October 13 that it has selected Russian Sukhoi Superjet 100 (SSJ 100) aircraft to renew its fleet. The carrier has signed a preliminary agreement with Sukhoi Civil Aircraft (SCAC) and SuperJet International (SJI) to order for 15 aircraft of this type with an option for another 10 aircraft."

[Al1977]

Quote: wizarden

not counting the flawed SSJ

Here are the opinions of active pilots, and not a retired soldier, about this aircraft, a very interesting essay:
http://denokan.livejournal.com/108182.html

[Alex_Tug]

For some reason it only claims that it is RRJ100-95. According to RRJ95B certificate.
And the essay is not about an airplane, but about a simulator.

[Alex_Tug]

I almost fell out of my chair.(((
-----
According to the adviser to the deputy general director of the concern, Vladimir Mikheev, the enterprise “has already begun to develop a new integrated avionics-based complex of onboard equipment, which, first of all, will be designed for the new medium-haul aircraft MS-21-300”.
-----
Figase (from the beloved's vocabulary). We tested the Boeing 787 avionics for 5 years for the first certification. He is already planning to fly here in February. Although it can fly without a certificate, as a workhorse it needs a certificate. In general, it’s clear - the fanfare is blowing early, just like the superjet. We've arrived, sir...
At least there won’t be such minor mistakes?... Or turn into a “flying Dutchman” like a superjet when the timer counter overflows under certain conditions?

[Zaurbek]

Are its original engines American or PD-14? At the presentation they didn’t say which MS-21 they rolled out with.

[Tishka]

For Al1977 (2), according to Aeroflot, I don’t see the statistics, but I read them every month. then it rolled off the runway, then made an emergency landing, then this or that failed, they had already compiled lists of which failures they could fly with, but they waved at the passengers, they’ll make it, okay, they didn’t make it, okay too, there are a lot of people in the country! Of course, the easiest way is to blame the monkey, and not your handsome men who line their pockets! That the striped ones are to blame for everything, that they ruined theirs and sold it cheap, and what happens next, we don’t care! So, it’s worth starting with those who ruined, banned and sold, and then look at what they have there, over the hill? And isn’t this rubbish, with constant failures, which, before they came to us, flew in Africa, and where Makar did not herd calves! Maybe Aeroflot can afford to buy an A-380, but Kagalym Air definitely won’t be able to! Then, nationalize airports and air transportation, and pay from the budget so as not to ruin the people!

[Al1977]

but every month I read it. then rolled off the runway, then made an emergency landing, then the failure

“I heard a ringing, but I don’t know where it is” - Russian proverb.
Do you really think that the plane rolling off the runway was Obama's doing? If so, then forgive me, I have nothing more to discuss with you.
If you were joking (I hope), then I will explain using the list of failures with which you can fly (Minimum Equipment List). This list is for ALL aircraft, ours or not, from the assembly line or not - it makes no difference. Relatively speaking, with a burnt-out light bulb in the toilet, takeoff is permitted.
Regarding rubbish, you yourself said that you don’t keep statistics, but at the same time you state this with such confidence... You, how can I put it mildly.... a delitious alarmist. Maybe you're just afraid of flying? By the way, a super new superjet not from Africa, under the control of a tester in Malaysia, crashed into a mountain. How so? Did Obama bribe the pilot? And Aeroflot’s “junk” hasn’t killed ANY passengers for many, many years.
Let me calm you down. Large companies have good, reliable, best aircraft in the world.
American and European planes are the best in the world, we must admit it.
Whether we can compete is difficult, but if there is government support, we will be able to do so. This is a real challenge. But I wouldn’t say that this is rubbish and this is a miracle of miracles.

[Tishka]

I flew with domestic ones with great pleasure! Starting from Yak and ending with carcasses! I don’t argue that the West produces good airplanes, but they practically don’t reach us, with the exception of rare companies that can afford it, mostly through leasing, old, well, very old machines arrive! I, personally, do not blame Obama for everything; it was our very “effective” managers, led by Medvedev, who drove our aviation industry into such debt that it was easier to ruin it and sell it under the hammer! We need to finance our developments, oppose our aircraft construction, and not disdain the fact that something can be copied from the West, if we ourselves cannot achieve it, with our own minds! It is necessary, as in the USSR, that everything should be its own, but not worse, but better than in the same West! At least in military aviation, we are not lagging behind the West, and this is very good, but it will be absolutely wonderful if we revive such design bureaus as Myasishchevskoye, Tupolevskoye, Ilyushinskoye, and others, so that there is competition within the country, so that you can choose, of the presented models, the best. At the same time, we will master new technologies, and build factories, and everything will be our own, at the same time, we will create jobs, and we will revive the engineering school, otherwise, from the managers, their brains are boiling! When our Tu-154 made an emergency landing, I was simply glad that we have excellent pilots; landing such a car on an unsuitable runway is a matter of pride, and only the nose landing gear was damaged by rolling out of the runway! These are the people the country needs and needs! And not these managers who compressed EGE!

[Falcon5555]

How is it better than the Tu-204?

[Old warrior]

Clear Skies and Happy Flight.