Military Review

Project "ZZ". No history, no money

154
In "The American Interest" told about the "rewriting" Putin stories Russia, slightly likening the Kremlin to the Orwellian Ministry of Truth. In addition, it is argued that "Putin's manipulations" with history are "a threat to the West." The real history of Russia is deplorable: “Frankfurter Allgemeine Zeitung” reminds that Russian rulers shocked the poor public with passages about lack of money against the background of corruption scandals, and therefore invigorating Medvedev statements like “hold on” look ambiguous.




In a rubric under the awesome title "Revisionism" in the journal "The American Interest" An article by Andrew Foxall (Andrew Foxall) was published on how the story in Putin’s Russia is changing for the leader’s authoritarianism.

According to the author, Putin is doing the following: “Putin’s authoritarianism in the present”. That is, rewrites the past in order to justify the authoritarianism of the present.

At the beginning of the material, Andrew Foxall repeats the arguments that have already become standard in the West: over the past two years, the Kremlin “annexed Crimea”, launched a “aggressive war against Ukraine”, intervened “in the Syrian conflict” and even “threatened the security of the Euro-Atlantic region” in various ways. And what's next? Meanwhile, the “situation inside Russia” was getting worse. Economic? No, the author is talking about something else, something else is bad: “the authoritarian regime of President Vladimir Putin strengthened his position”.

Next, the analyst explains his point of view.

Firstly, the following image of Putin is enshrined in Russian society: he is the defender of Russia, and it must be defended because the “predator West” attacks her.

Secondly, the Kremlin is "silently maintained" an atmosphere of intolerance. Enveloped in it, the authorities are attacking "civil liberties." The author is confident that opposition politicians in Russia are “being killed”, that “anti-Western sentiments” have spread around the country, and the deterioration in the economy is accompanied by bravado in the spirit of “a return to traditional values”. This kind of domestic policy led to a split of society: Putin united people "around his regime", and critics found themselves in the camp of "enemies of the state."

And this is where the analyst sees the use of history by the Kremlin as a “political weapons". Moreover, the author does not doubt that: “Undoubtedly,” he writes, “for the past sixteen years of rule, Putin used history, turning it into a tool of self-affirmation ...” Putin needed this to preserve the existing political system.

Next, the analyst goes to the West.

The fact is that the “manipulations with history” produced by Putin constitute a “threat to the West”, and even “growing”: they reinforce the confrontational component in Moscow’s foreign policy and nourish “anti-Western sentiments” in Russian society.

Andrew Foxall believes that Putin "cultivates conservatism," in which the USSR’s victory over Nazism is of key importance to ideology. Here the author discovers the “myths” that the Russian authorities “actively support”.

The most common of these "myths" were assurances that it was the USSR that had defeated Nazism, protecting Europe from it. Any doubts about this version of history are viewed by the Kremlin as a threat to the authorities. In particular, Foxall recalls the recent history of the letter of the Minister of Culture Mr. Medina to Mr. Mironenko, the head of the State Archives. Medinsky hinted that Mironenko might show “a desire to change his profession,” the authorities would understand that. In March, Mr. Mironenko was fired. The creators of the film about the Panfilov heroes in Russia do not want to pay attention to new historical data. Medinsky, in 2013, published the book “War: Myths of the USSR” and believes that the story begins “not with facts, but with interpretations” (“According to Medinsky, published in 2013 ), history begins “with interpretations but with interpretations.” ”).

(In fact, S. Mironenko, Director of the State Archives, was removed from the position of director, but not “dismissed” in general: now his position called "Scientific director of the archive." He spoke about this himself. “He asked for it himself, the desire wrote something so that he could concentrate on scientific work. We will even try not to limit his salary, ”- explained 16 March press head of the Federal Archival Agency Andrei Artizov. - O. Ch.)

In the end, I am convinced Foxall, "a distorted interpretation of history," which the Kremlin gives the people, is designed to unite society around the "idealized past." At the same time, historical distortions lend "legal force to aggressive foreign policy" no longer in the past, but in the present.

The analyst believes that the Kremlin, having subordinated the media and politicians, has already prepared the ground for historical revisionism. To rewrite history is what the Kremlin intended. And the state is the “sole guardian” of people's memory. That is Putin’s point of view. From here, it takes the origins and convocation of the commission on “historical truth” on the eve of the 65 anniversary of the victory in the Great Patriotic War. She supposedly must fight historical falsifications. And in 2015, V. Putin initiated the unification of history textbooks. All this leads to the “canon” of history prescribed by the state.

The author hints at Putin’s plan orulizm. He writes that by “falsifying” the history of the Kremlin means that it contradicts the official version today and its interpretation, from which tomorrow's may differ.

The West should respond to Putin by initiating “educational programs” in Russia. They should condemn the Kremlin’s attempts to “manipulate history” and clearly define the role of Russia and the USSR in history. Russia's attempts to "monopoly" to ascribe to itself victory in World War II are unacceptable, they should be "rejected". For this, the West needs to support research on archival materials stored in Russian repositories.

In Russia, many people take at face value "the Kremlin's manipulation of history." You can not leave it without attention, says Foxall.

Western media have told about the real history of modern Russia. She, apparently, is pitiable.

Frederick Schmidt in «Frankfurter Allgemeine Zeitung» notes that the Russian rulers shocked the poor public with passages about the lack of money against the background of corruption scandals, and therefore invigorating Medvedev statements like “hold on” look ambiguous.

The author recalls the recent scandalous statement in the Crimea, Prime Minister Dmitry Medvedev, where the latter appeared "in a not very favorable light." In Feodosia, the Russian ruler stumbled upon an angry pensioner who complained about the size of her pension - 8 thousand rubles. And the prices are “mad”, retired remarked. The response from Medvedev contained a message that “there is simply no money” and an indication “to stick here,” reminds the journalist.

It is curious that the authorities of Sevastopol regarded the issue of pensions as a “targeted provocation”. Friedrich Schmidt writes that with the help of such a simple formula of reaction, the Russian authorities are shifting responsibility for the problems "to the enemies" who allegedly attack Russia "both inside and outside."

No wonder the Kremlin declared "provocations" and the machinations of the West and the publication of offshore accounts of representatives of the elite of Russia. Putin said for a reason that the Panamanian dossier is an information product designed to “destabilize the situation” in Russia. Schmidt himself thinks that publications about all these accounts explain precisely why there is “no money for indexation of pensions” in Russia.

* * *


Western analysts believe that Russia is not all right, not only with the past day, but with today. The Kremlin, in the manner of the Orwellian Ministry of Truth, is busy "rewriting" history to please the "official" point of view and diligently "idealizes the past."

Why exactly the past? Undoubtedly, there is no propaganda novelty in that: the same Orwell historical workers also alter the old newspapers. In Russia, this is done for the same reason: life in the present is poor and difficult, it is not for nothing that the Russian prime minister advises the people to “hold on”, because “there is no money”.

Western analysts, though, ridicule Medvedev, whose statements are indeed worthy of the feuilletonist pen, but the Kremlin’s “historical” approach plunges them into depression. The “manipulations with history” produced by Putin constitute a “threat to the West” because they feed “anti-Western sentiments” in Russian society.

It is strange that analysts did not even mention the word “sanctions” in their articles once. From scratch, "anti-Western sentiment" does not arise, as much as Putin or his ministers are talking about this. At least one reason, yes should be. If Western states, clearly headed by the United States, have decided to strangle Russia with restrictive measures, they will not be considered “friends” in Russia. The West can repeat as much as it wants that sanctions are directed against the authorities, they will still somehow be beating up on the welfare of the people.

As for corruption in power and “no money”, then yes, such phenomena exist in Russia. Just like they exist in the West. They exist wherever there is state power.
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  1. Andrey K
    Andrey K 8 June 2016 09: 49
    +51
    The American Interest tells of Putin’s “rewriting” of the history of Russia ... it simply touches negative
    The Americans wanted to write us our story fool
    And this "nasty" Putin does not give laughing
    ...Putin’s “manipulations with history” constitute a “threat to the West,” since they nourish “anti-Western sentiments” in Russian society...
    These sentiments, anti-Western, have a foundation. But opposition to the attempts of the "West" to put everything "upside down" and "conceal" its unsightly role, cause hysteria in the latter request
    1. poquello
      poquello 8 June 2016 10: 08
      .
      Quote: Andrey K
      The American Interest tells of Putin’s “rewriting” of the history of Russia ... it simply touches negative
      The Americans wanted to write us our story fool
      And this "nasty" Putin does not give laughing
      ...Putin’s “manipulations with history” constitute a “threat to the West,” since they nourish “anti-Western sentiments” in Russian society...
      These sentiments, anti-Western, have a foundation. But opposition to the attempts of the "West" to put everything "upside down" and "conceal" its unsightly role, cause hysteria in the latter request

      heh, but the collision is real, and I talked about it here
      The creators of the film about the Panfilov heroes in Russia do not want to pay attention to new historical data.

      it is not necessary to interfere with the history of propaganda, you can carefully divert this event from the "historical", for example by giving it as the author's inspiration from the story at the front, the story is good, beautiful, heroic, but according to the story, there is an excellent example of Kibalchish A. Gaidar
      1. Andrey K
        Andrey K 8 June 2016 10: 42
        +31
        Quote: poquello

        The creators of the film about the Panfilov heroes in Russia do not want to pay attention to new historical data.

        it is not necessary to interfere with the history of propaganda, you can carefully divert this event from the "historical", for example by giving it as the author's inspiration from the story at the front, the story is good, beautiful, heroic, but according to the story, there is an excellent example of Kibalchish A. Gaidar

        I can answer you in the same way - there is a great example of Badman A. Gaidar. Let me remind you of his assessment of the homeland and honor - a basket of cookies and a jar of jam negative
        There is even a fictional recent story, without Arkady Petrovich Gaidar (Golikov) - starring Victoria Nuland negative
        You are now, on this thread, promoting the "research" of the former director of the State Archives S. Mironenko request
        1. poquello
          poquello 8 June 2016 11: 00
          .
          Quote: Andrey K
          You are now, on this thread, promoting the "research" of the former director of the State Archives S. Mironenko

          With a stubborn desire to pass off fiction as truth, you and the like question the really real facts, which bourgeois analysts have clearly demonstrated to you. The bottom line is that we are all lying about Victory, exploits, and about anything, but here is the proof of our lies. Not getting it?
          1. Andrey K
            Andrey K 8 June 2016 12: 31
            +26
            Quote: poquello
            With a stubborn desire to pass off fiction as truth, you and the like question the really real facts, which bourgeois analysts have clearly demonstrated to you. The bottom line is that we are all lying about Victory, exploits, and about anything, but here is the proof of our lies. Not getting it?

            I would like to tell you "respected", but ... you here wrote me in some kind of stubbornly incomprehensible mass, without asking me and not asking for my opinion negative
            It is very unfortunate that you yourself have appointed mentors negative
            No offense, be it said - you and others like you, replicating the "truth" written in the West, are like masochists negative
            After all, neither Medinsky (if you are stressing the "truth" about the Panfilovites), nor society as a whole, nor even I, it seems, did not question the fact of some blooper that was present in the story of this massacre. However, at the suggestion of Mironenko, this was replicated negative
            In the West, based on these "investigations", they built a whole structure about our "false" history. That is, they used this unpleasant, existing and undeniable fact as a "seasoning" to their enormous lie am
            And now you are promoting this lie of "bourgeois analysts" further and pouring some water on the mill of Anglo-Saxon propaganda am
            And whoever does not agree with their, and now even your, lies is the one: "The bottom line is that we are all lying about Victory" ... negative
            You, to your manipulation of lies, attribute the word "We" negative
            Less to you, from me hi
            1. poquello
              poquello 8 June 2016 13: 29
              .
              Quote: Andrey K
              Quote: poquello
              With a stubborn desire to pass off fiction as truth, you and the like question the really real facts, which bourgeois analysts have clearly demonstrated to you. ...

              I would like to tell you "respected", but ... you here wrote me in some kind, stubbornly incomprehensible mass, ...

              You yourself wrote it down, and the desire is really stubborn, yours not yours did not understand from your opus.
              There is a story popular in the USSR about 28 Panfilovites, there is an archive of the investigation confirming the fiction of this story, there are two obvious positions - to brand all who mention that this is fiction or not to deny it.
              Quote: Andrey K
              And who does not agree with them, and now with your lies

              in how to burn the archive? not? I read this document and I didn’t see any worthy arguments refuting it, I didn’t hear it. Well, I don’t care.
              1. Andrey K
                Andrey K 8 June 2016 13: 49
                +15
                Quote: poquello
                You yourself wrote it down, and the desire is really stubborn, yours not yours did not understand from your opus

                Read your own above opus:
                Quote: poquello
                With a stubborn desire to pass off fiction as truth, you and the like question the really real facts, which bourgeois analysts have clearly demonstrated to you. The bottom line is that we are all lying about Victory, exploits, and about anything, but here is the proof of our lies

                Learn to be responsible for your own words, and stop flooding negative
                Quote: poquello
                There is a story popular in the USSR about 28 Panfilovites, there is an archive of the investigation confirming the fiction of this story, there are two obvious positions - to brand all who mention that this is fiction or not to deny it

                Are you talking to yourself? Have you read the comments or made a page with your own monologue? request
                To have a conversation, you need to listen to your opponent hi
                Once again you push the lie, where I wrote about the fiction about Panfilov’s? negative
                You ascribe to me words that I didn’t speak, and already based on this false promise, you convict me of a lie wassat
                I don’t interfere with myself talking to you request
                1. poquello
                  poquello 8 June 2016 14: 29
                  .
                  Quote: Andrey K
                  Quote: poquello
                  You yourself wrote it down, and the desire is really stubborn, yours not yours did not understand from your opus

                  Read your own above opus:
                  Quote: poquello
                  Stubborn desire to pretend to be fiction, you and the like question the really real facts, which was clearly demonstrated to you by bourgeois analysts ...

                  Learn to be responsible for your own words, and stop flooding

                  went to school? not? Did you learn Russian?
                  Quote: poquello
                  There is a story popular in the USSR about 28 Panfilovites, there is an archive of the investigation confirming the fiction of this story, there are two obvious positions - to brand all who mention that this is fiction or not to deny it

                  Quote: Andrey K
                  To have a conversation, you need to listen to your opponent

                  So I want to hear what you say, accusing me of spreading lies.
                  1. EvgNik
                    EvgNik 8 June 2016 15: 14
                    +17
                    Guys, argue in vain. History is being rewritten. We ourselves are witnesses to this. And the author of this rewriting is the states that blame us for this, they themselves rewrite our history.
                    1. poquello
                      poquello 8 June 2016 15: 37
                      +9
                      Quote: EvgNik
                      Guys, argue in vain. History is being rewritten. We ourselves are witnesses to this. And the author of this rewriting is the states that blame us for this, they themselves rewrite our history.

                      yes hell they will rewrite it if they themselves do not allow it
                      1. Andrey K
                        Andrey K 8 June 2016 15: 49
                        +8
                        Quote: poquello
                        yes hell they will rewrite it if they themselves do not allow it

                        But under this statement and I will subscribe good
                      2. Mahmut
                        Mahmut 9 June 2016 06: 33
                        -2
                        As for corruption in power and “no money”, then yes, such phenomena exist in Russia. Just like they exist in the West. They exist wherever there is state power.

                        That is, in Libya, Somalia and Ukraine there is no corruption.
                2. Andrey K
                  Andrey K 8 June 2016 15: 31
                  +7
                  Quote: poquello
                  So I want to hear what you say, accusing me of spreading lies.

                  All that I wanted to write, I wrote request
                  Spending time on how to see how you got confused in your own verbiage, I have no desire request
                  In the end: this is not the topic of the article. hi
                  PS went to school? not? Did you learn Russian? laughing
                  Says a lot laughing
                  Especially about knowledge of the Russian language and spelling, in particularlaughing
                  Good luck hi
            2. Rarog
              Rarog 8 June 2016 14: 16
              +10
              Quote: poquello
              There is a popular story in the USSR about 28 panfilovites


              And what's wrong with the fact that numerous examples of the feat of our People will be combined in one film and filmed ?! For example, the feat of Matrosov was repeated by hundreds of soldiers of the Red Army, but Matrosov is often mentioned - in his person we honor the rest of the nameless heroes. What's the big deal? Or all war films should be made as documentaries. With this logic, for example, the film "Some old men go to battle" "denigrates" our "real story" about Victory, because the characters are invented.

              In the USA there are popular stories about Captain America ... no one claims now that this "super hero" is a fictional character, unlike the same real Panfilovites (even if the battle described in our story took place in a slightly different place, and the participants was more, but this does not detract from the reality of the feat of our soldiers), then the United States did not participate at all in hostilities against the Reich.
              1. Alexey RA
                Alexey RA 8 June 2016 15: 02
                0
                Quote: Rarog
                In the USA there are popular stories about Captain America ... no one claims now that this "super hero" is a fictional character, unlike the same real ones.

                The problem is that our "28 Panfilovites" bear the names and surnames of real people. If you shoot Shallop something generalized, like "hot snow" or "in war as in war" - no one would be particularly indignant.

                And he stretches the "Legend of 28" onto the globe of real biographies. And it turns out "a feat of twice police Dobrobabin". It's as if Captain America was called Edward Snowden in the movie. smile
              2. Mordvin 3
                Mordvin 3 8 June 2016 15: 11
                +12
                Quote: Rarog
                With this logic, for example, the film "Only Old Men Go to Battle" "denigrates" our "real story" about Victory, because the characters are invented.

                Eh. POPKOV Vitaly Ivanovich, twice Hero of the Soviet Union, squadron commander of the "squadron of heroes", on account - 41 enemy aircraft. Callsign - Maestro. It is simultaneously the prototype of Grasshopper and Titarenko. On the ground, he led the ensemble. hi
                1. Rarog
                  Rarog 8 June 2016 15: 45
                  +4
                  I’m talking about that, that the fictional characters of this and many other films have real prototypes. And let the narratives of the pictures, the names of the protagonists not always coincide with real events and characters, sometimes generalizing, sometimes separating, and sometimes embellishing them, this does not detract from the feat of our People. Why then is there an artistic genre in cinema ?!
                  1. Berkut752
                    Berkut752 11 June 2016 11: 47
                    0
                    "the fictional characters of this and many other films have real prototypes."

                    Precisely because of the "real prototypes", and there are hundreds of them, X / F are created.
              3. poquello
                poquello 8 June 2016 15: 57
                -3
                Quote: Rarog
                And what's wrong with the fact that numerous examples of the feat of our People will be combined in one film and filmed?! ...

                this is not the first heated debate about the Panfilovites, the film is good, it is bad to pull it up to the "historical battle" which was not even that, but also some of the alleged heroes turned out to be collaborators
                1. cast iron
                  cast iron 8 June 2016 23: 35
                  +2
                  There was no battle at the Dubosekovo crossing according to German documents, but according to the statement of the colonel of the Red Army there was. Whom to believe? I personally believe ours. A company of Panfilov soldiers fell almost completely in that battle with tanks and fulfilled their duty. And what the Russophobes think about the "non-existent" battle is the tenth thing. As well as the fact that Dobrobabin later became a policeman does not cancel the battle itself.
              4. gladcu2
                gladcu2 8 June 2016 17: 22
                +7
                Rarog

                The history of the Russian Federation is not needed by Americans, not by Europeans, but by citizens of the Russian Federation. To create the unity of the people. So that the country of Russia has a people. This is not a joke; it is very serious and important. I will now expand on the expanded.


                There are no people in the United States. Or almost nonexistent.

                Why?

                The people are united by a single system of understanding, a survival system.

                Consider what an amorphous existence in the United States.

                Is there a single, systemic education in the USA? Multilevel multi-cast and fragmented. Does something unite?

                Religion. Is religion the same in the USA? An explosive mixture of all that is possible. In the USSR, only the main faith was allowed. Sects were banned at the state level. That the people would remain united.

                Multiculturalism. Makes multiculturalism a nation. Yes, tearing to pieces.

                Feminism. Curves general morality and is put in opposition to religion.

                LGBT The destruction of morality, conflict among people.

                Financial and caste distinction. Marriages are not possible.

                American history. Who knows her? None.

                So the question is, where are the people? The Americans were left without a people. They are kept together only by the state and the land on which they live. And these things are very arbitrary.

                Therefore, Russia first of all needs history as a factor in the unification of the people. To save the country.
                1. gladcu2
                  gladcu2 8 June 2016 19: 57
                  0
                  To my post I will add another extremely important remark.

                  The formation of the people create.

                  Attention.!!!!.

                  Car roads.

                  Because everything intersects on the road. And on the road form a single system of survival, understanding and morality.

                  In the USA, everyone is equal on the road, absolutely. There are no rich and poor.

                  Remember the recent law of D.A. Medvedev. What did this official want to do? He destroyed his system of understanding by law. He created a false idea of ​​being protected by law, in fact, tried to save idiots' lives. This is for those who do not know, those who are sick in the left lane when the right one is free, they create a dangerous situation. By his law, DAM, gave these idiots protection thereby violating the system of understanding, morality.

                  In the United States, in an automobile country, for a slow ride on the left lane, they look contemptuously. They can be hard cut.
                  For a slow start from a traffic light, you can get a bullet. Live yourself do not bother others. This is moral. This is a system of struggle for life.
                2. Alexy
                  Alexy 9 June 2016 04: 53
                  -2
                  However, this does not prevent the US from existing. And the signs of decay and destruction are somehow not visible.
                  1. gladcu2
                    gladcu2 9 June 2016 17: 46
                    +1
                    Alexey

                    The United States in this form exists because the nearest neighbors do not claim their land.

                    In Europe, a state that does not have its own people is likely to die.
        2. Corporal Valera
          Corporal Valera 8 June 2016 12: 44
          +5
          Quote: poquello
          With a stubborn desire to pass off fiction as truth, you and the like question the real facts,

          And what do you think is "truth"? A historical event personally in your interpretation? And 300 Spartans, in your opinion, is also fiction? But there were much more people and not only Spartans, but for some reason 300 Spartans remember! And why did the 28 Panfilovites not please you? Are you by any chance a colleague of Mironenko?
          Quote: poquello
          which bourgeois analysts have clearly demonstrated to you.

          Ah ha ha) Bourgeois analysts have shown nothing but their ignorance. In the garden of elderberry, in Kiev, uncle. Or did you see a serious argument there?
          1. Alexey RA
            Alexey RA 8 June 2016 13: 51
            -7
            Quote: Corporal Valera
            And what did 28 Panfilov’s do not please you?

            By the fact that 28 Panfilov’s fighters, who were compiled by GlavPUR, are trying to pass off real events as truth.

            And it will end simply: the director will collect the grandmothers and roll off, and the liberal will happily dance around the patriots, waving the folder with the Dobrobabin case and other documents of the 1948 Main Military Provisional Party investigating the case of falsification of the "battle of 28 Panfilovites". And he will scream at the top of his lungs "your whole war was like that - there were no feats, all journalists invented". sad
            1. poquello
              poquello 8 June 2016 14: 44
              -1
              Quote: Alexey RA
              Quote: Corporal Valera
              And what did 28 Panfilov’s do not please you?

              By the fact that 28 Panfilov’s fighters, who were compiled by GlavPUR, are trying to pass off real events as truth.

              And it will end simply: the director will collect the grandmothers and roll off, and the liberal will happily dance around the patriots, waving the folder with the Dobrobabin case and other documents of the 1948 Main Military Provisional Party investigating the case of falsification of the "battle of 28 Panfilovites". And he will scream at the top of his lungs "your whole war was like that - there were no feats, all journalists invented". sad

              but they won’t scream, they’ll shout anyway, IMHO, you need to hammer one thing - according to the book, according to the book, according to the book, but the fact that the book wasn’t docked as it was already, and the same Hot Snow of Bondarev (- thing) based on events and historical accuracy is not claimed.
              1. Alexey RA
                Alexey RA 8 June 2016 15: 20
                0
                Quote: poquello
                but he won’t fall off anyway they’ll shout, IMHO you have to hammer one thing - according to the book, according to the book, according to the book,

                So the problem is that Challope considers the heroes of his film to be real people, and not characters of a legend. Not for nothing that he recently justified twice the police Dobrobabin.
                That is, he is actually trying to stretch the legend onto the globe of real events. Instead of shooting "hot snow" or "in war as in war."

                And about "they will shout anyway" - so why substitute? If you want to shoot a film about a documentary feat - dig the theme of the Ilyinsky lines defense. There, even the Germans confirm the company of panzers knocked out in a few minutes, and with a photo.
                1. poquello
                  poquello 8 June 2016 16: 08
                  -3
                  Quote: Alexey RA
                  And about "they will shout anyway" - so why substitute? If you want to shoot a film about a documentary feat - dig the theme of the Ilyinsky lines defense. There, even the Germans confirm the company of panzers knocked out in a few minutes, and with a photo.

                  I suppose they already pulled, swelled money
            2. Corporal Valera
              Corporal Valera 8 June 2016 14: 49
              +6
              Quote: Alexey RA
              By the fact that 28 Panfilov’s fighters, who were compiled by GlavPUR, are trying to pass off real events as truth.

              What is your evidence? Imagine, there is just the opposite opinion. Many respected people, for example, adhere to it. Not all as they wrote in the 42nd, but so on. And what's wrong with the legends? Really our grandfathers did not deserve one legend? They may have not defended Moscow? Maybe the tanks didn’t knock out? Maybe they didn’t die? What exactly do you disagree with? Enough to expose already? Or do you like American legends more about how furious nonsense pit on one tank killed all Germans?
              Quote: Alexey RA
              But it will end simply: the director will collect grandmother and roll away

              Actually, there the people gathered 30 lyamas and the ministry of culture 50 (like) allocated. Where will he fall off? If interested, the goblin has posted reports on the site.
              Quote: Alexey RA
              and other documents of the 1948 GVP on the investigation of the falsification of the "battle of 28 Panfilov's men".

              Even without this, they always wave. What does the movie have to do with it?
              1. PHANTOM-AS
                PHANTOM-AS 8 June 2016 14: 57
                +4
                Quote: Corporal Valera
                And what's wrong with the legends? Really our grandfathers did not deserve one legend? They may have not defended Moscow? Maybe the tanks didn’t knock out? Maybe they didn’t die?

                This song is also a legend, but in fact it is a song about real events.
              2. Alexey RA
                Alexey RA 8 June 2016 15: 45
                +1
                Quote: Corporal Valera
                What is your evidence? Imagine, there is just the opposite opinion. Many respected people, for example, adhere to it. Not all as they wrote in the 42nd, but so on.

                Many respected people and Fedorov was considered an ace.
                Alas, for the time being, it is precisely the documents of the investigation of the 1948 Stalinist GWP that have the greatest weight.
                Quote: Corporal Valera
                And what's wrong with the legends? Really our grandfathers did not deserve one legend? They may have not defended Moscow? Maybe the tanks didn’t knock out? Maybe they didn’t die? What exactly do you disagree with? Enough to expose already?

                Flies - separately, cutlets - separately. If you want to shoot a legend, shoot the "Legend of 28" based on newspaper materials. If you want to shoot real - shoot the fight according to the testimony of Kaprov and the research of historians.

                I do not agree that the legend is confused with real life. They take the legendary Dobrobabin, who died according to legend under the tank - and show him in the film as a real Dobrobabin, who, according to documents, served twice in policemen. And when Challope indicates this, then he gets into a pose and begins to justify the betrayal of his hero - they say that he’s not the only one, everyone lived like this:
                I do not presume to condemn him for his behavior in German captivity. There are no grounds to believe that he killed, tortured Soviet people. In my opinion, it is better not to consider a traitor as a traitor than to humiliate a real hero. Dobrobabin was a man who wanted to live, not die. His village Perekop was in deep occupation - a thousand kilometers from the front.
                In occupied Ukraine, it was completely unobvious that the Soviet government would return there sometime. And the vast majority of residents somehow worked for the Germans.
                The condition for the survival of Dobrobabin was service in the German police, when the Red Army arrived, the condition for life was service in the Red Army. He took the machine again.

                On this example, you want to educate the younger generation? Is this, in your opinion, patriotic education? If the enemy comes, fight a little ... and then go serve the enemy in police; because the main thing for you is to survive?
                1. Corporal Valera
                  Corporal Valera 8 June 2016 15: 58
                  +1
                  Quote: Alexey RA
                  Flies - separately, cutlets - separately.

                  So who is arguing? Cinema is not documentary!
                  Quote: Alexey RA
                  They take the legendary Dobrobabin, who died according to legend under the tank - and show it in the film as the real Dobrobabin, which. As you know, he served twice in police.

                  Well, let him die better under the tank. Do you want to show the story of his betrayal in the film?
                  Quote: Alexey RA
                  On this example, you want to educate the younger generation?

                  Personally, I think that if the younger generation is interested in who Dobrobabin is and gets into (at least on the wiki) to learn more about this fight, then this will be a big plus. But for some reason it seems to me that they will be deeply purple.
                  Quote: Alexey RA
                  Alas, for the time being, it is precisely the documents of the investigation of the 1948 Stalinist GWP that have the greatest weight.

                  It is believed that this was a company against Zhukov.
                  1. Alexey RA
                    Alexey RA 8 June 2016 16: 15
                    0
                    Quote: Corporal Valera
                    So who is arguing? Cinema is not documentary!

                    Non-documentary films are hot snow.
                    And a movie in which the characters bear the names of real people who fought at the same time in those same places is somehow difficult to call artistic and non-documentary.
                    Quote: Corporal Valera
                    Well, let him die better under the tank. Do you want to show the story of his betrayal in the film?

                    It’s better not to touch this topic at all. Make it like a Yankee - quietly wind up uncomfortable propaganda legends, making them the subject of highly specialized interest.
                    And to make a film based on a real, documented feat. Fortunately, there were such people - also near Moscow and also in 1941.
                    1. Corporal Valera
                      Corporal Valera 8 June 2016 16: 30
                      +1
                      Quote: Alexey RA
                      And the movie in which the characters carry the names of real people,

                      For some reason, it seems to me that the credibility of the film is determined not by the names, but by the titles: "based on real events", "based on ...", etc. In any case, this is a feature film.
                      Quote: Alexey RA
                      It’s better not to touch this topic at all.

                      This is to the question, what was the first egg or chicken? At first, he was a public man with liberal stubbornness and crap 28 Panfilov’s gan. And the film arose much later, and just as an answer! Therefore, I am for him with both hands. And let Mironenkoff fart them to shreds
                    2. Alexey RA
                      Alexey RA 8 June 2016 17: 35
                      0
                      Quote: Corporal Valera
                      At first, he was a public man with liberal stubbornness and crap 28 Panfilov’s gan. And the film arose much later, and just as an answer! Therefore, I am for him with both hands. And let Mironenkoff fart them to shreds

                      EMNIP, first Shallop started filming. And then Mironenko began to say that the "28 Panfilovites" in the form in which propaganda presented them is a myth.
                      And when they did not hear him, Mironenko acted much easier. No tantrums on the net, no bombing. He simply waited until the filming of the film reached the finish line - and posted scans of GWP documents from the network that same business. And then the sickly bombed on the other side.
                      Quote: Corporal Valera
                      For some reason, it seems to me that the credibility of the film is determined not by the names, but by the titles: "based on real events", "based on ...", etc. In any case, this is a feature film.

                      Well, I’m saying - let’s make a film where General Vlasov heroically dies, shooting back from the Germans. And then let's say that this is just a feature film.

                      The problem is that the characters in the film Shallopa have the names of real people who fought there and then. And the biographies of these people in real life are known. As a result, we get the patriotic hero twice-policeman Dobrobabin.
                    3. Corporal Valera
                      Corporal Valera 8 June 2016 22: 07
                      +1
                      Quote: Alexey RA
                      EMNIP, first Chaliop began filming.

                      No, you are mistaken. Filming in the 13th year began. Here, pay attention to this article, in particular in the date: http: //petrovchik.livejournal.com/106038.html
                      Quote: Alexey RA
                      Well, I’m saying - let’s make a film where General Vlasov heroically dies, shooting back from the Germans.

                      Well, what, do not remove or what? The Citadel, Admiral. Dofiga there credibility?
                      - and posted scans of GWP documents from the same case to the network

                      I, so I think, that after a while other scans will appear that will present the story in a different light. As already happened with Pavlik Morozov, Matrosov, Kosmodemyanskaya, etc. Just myrrh-babies are turning everything they touch into a ram.
                    4. Berkut752
                      Berkut752 11 June 2016 12: 10
                      0
                      You are right. The world has changed. We are forced to admit it. Life priorities have completely changed. People now have a new faith, a new Gospel: “Take everything from life!”
        3. Alexey RA
          Alexey RA 8 June 2016 16: 06
          +3
          Quote: Corporal Valera
          Or do you like American legends more about how furious nonsense pit on one tank killed all Germans?

          But the Americans do not hide. that these are legends - both Fury and Ryan. But in parallel with this, they shoot documentary and artistic series of NVO on the Airborne Forces in Europe and Marines on maintenance.

          And they take the legendary Dobrobabin from us and take it off as real. And when the director is poked in the nose with double betrayal of a real fighter - he becomes in a pose and begins to broadcast about the fact that the main thing is to survive, and for this you can go to the police. A great example for the education of patriotism, which is already there ...
          Quote: Corporal Valera
          Even without this, they always wave. What does the movie have to do with it?

          Despite the fact that we do not need to substitute ourselves. And do not pull out controversial topics. Especially those for which there are documents of the GWP of the Stalin era.

          Look, the Americans, do not shoot the same patriotic films about the ramming of the LK "Haruna" with the B-17 Kelly bomber. Although they also promoted this feat during the war. But when they found out that there was no ramming, they preferred to quietly release this case on the brakes, transferring it to the category "better not to remind, interesting only to historians".

          If you want to shoot a patriotic film with reference to real events, take documented (best of all, from both sides) exploits. Otherwise, your work will only amuse the revisionists and lay the weight on the scales of the ideological adversary.
          1. Corporal Valera
            Corporal Valera 8 June 2016 16: 14
            +1
            Quote: Alexey RA
            And they take the legendary Dobrobabin from us and take it off as real.

            Why did the bath suddenly flood? Movie something art
            Quote: Alexey RA
            Look, the Americans, do not shoot the same patriotic films about the ramming of the LK "Haruna" with the B-17 Kelly bomber.

            Take off. Do not doubt. They’ll also take off and hoisted the flag on the Reichstag.
            1. Alexey RA
              Alexey RA 8 June 2016 16: 27
              0
              Quote: Corporal Valera
              Why did the bath suddenly flood? The film is artistic

              As I wrote above, a movie in which the characters bear the names of real people who fought at the same time in those same places, it’s somehow difficult to call artistic and non-documentary.

              Imagine that someone makes a film about the heroic feat of General Vlasov, who until the last fought with the Nazis and fell with weapons in his hands (or even worse, saved himself by his service to the Nazis for the future service of the USSR). And the director will shrug off all claims and speak "art film".
              1. Corporal Valera
                Corporal Valera 8 June 2016 16: 49
                +2
                Quote: Alexey RA
                As I wrote above, a movie in which the characters bear the names of real people who fought at the same time in those same places is somehow difficult to call artistic and non-documentary.

                And as I wrote above, the degree of reliability of the film is not determined in this way.
                A feature film is the same as a feature film, that is, a work of cinema art based on a plot embodied in a script and interpreted by the director , which is created using acting, directing, camera and other arts.

                Documentary film (or non-fiction film) - a kind of cinema. A documentary is called a film based on filmed genuine events and faces.

                Quote: Alexey RA
                Imagine that someone would make a film about the heroic deed of General Vlasov, who until the last fought with the Nazis and fell with a weapon in his hands

                Those. one bastard fucked up a feat and he is no longer a feat? And you need to bashfully shut up? And the rest, roughly speaking, 27 Panfilov’s are to blame for what? Although I understand your point of view.
              2. Alexey RA
                Alexey RA 8 June 2016 19: 09
                0
                Quote: Corporal Valera
                And as I wrote above, the degree of reliability of the film is not determined in this way.

                Credibility and documentability are two different things. For example, Operation Trust is not a documentary, but an authentic feature film.

                And here we are dealing with a film unreliable and artistic.
                Quote: Corporal Valera
                Those. one bastard fucked up a feat and he is no longer a feat? And you need to bashfully shut up? And the rest, roughly speaking, 27 Panfilov’s are to blame for what? Although I understand your point of view.

                27? In fact, there were many more.

                On that day, the entire division fought with the Germans. Specifically in the sector of the "legendary 28" there was a five-fold rifle company. The defense of the 1075 regiment was quickly broken through (in the testimony of Kaprov it was about the German tank that reached his command post, and about how he collected the retreating fighters) - and the Germans rested on the defense of the 1073 regiment, with rubble, mines and two anti-tank defense regiments. But alas ... and this was not enough:
                Alas, the miracle did not happen here. An incomplete rifle regiment with several "artillery regiments", and in terms of real numbers - anti-tank batteries, could only slow down the advance of the tank division, but not stop it. The battalions that came under attack were cut open and retreated in parts.
                In fact, on the first day of the enemy offensive, the first line of defense of Soviet troops in the Volokolamsk highway area was destroyed. Before the German divisions — the 2th and 5th Panzer and two infantry divisions were now to join the 11nd Panzer Divisions — the way was opened to Istra ... and Moscow.
              3. Corporal Valera
                Corporal Valera 8 June 2016 21: 53
                +1
                Quote: Alexey RA
                And here we are dealing with a film unreliable and artistic.

                These are, in fact, synonyms. Simply, some films are "based on real events." Note that it doesn't say "real events". In fiction films there is always a place for "I am an artist, as I see it". Unlike documentaries.
                Quote: Alexey RA
                27? In fact, there were many more.

                What difference does it make? Do you understand the question? What, you need to bashfully lower your eyes to the floor and nowhere to talk about it?
  • stalkerwalker
    stalkerwalker 8 June 2016 14: 02
    +2
    Quote: Corporal Valera
    And what do you think is "truth"?

    Do not ask children's questions - the answer will still be unpleasant.
    poquello right, as there is a popular story - for children,
    but there is a story for those who are really interested in it.
    And if everything gets in the heap, then there comes a complete mess in the understanding of what REALLY was. I explain.
    Oryol-Kursk battle took place to be. In July-August 1943, the Wehrmacht military machine was seriously defeated. But ... did not lose panzervaffen under Prokhorovka 500 tanks. This 5 GTA Rotmistrova lost about 300 tanks. Most of them are irrevocable.
    The division under the command of Panfilov defended Moscow in October-November 1941. Defending skillfully. And it was not completely destroyed. But the article above in Krasnaya Zvezda told a SOME different story.
    Conclusion. The feat was. It is a fact. But do not embellish this feat. No need to create false idols for yourself.
    And so on the site of couch patriots as dirt.
    1. Corporal Valera
      Corporal Valera 8 June 2016 15: 06
      +3
      Quote: stalkerwalker
      Do not ask children's questions - the answer will still be unpleasant.
      poquello is right

      Not right
      Quote: stalkerwalker
      A popular story for children

      Holywood is a story for children. And we, dear, of such Panfilov’s - after 100 meters in the European part. 70 years have passed, but they still can’t dig everyone out. So do not la la.
      Quote: stalkerwalker
      But the article above in Krasnaya Zvezda told a SOME different story.
      Conclusion. The feat was. It is a fact. But do not embellish this feat.

      Well, of course, you know better what was needed and what was not needed. What mobilizing role this article played, you probably do not know. It is a pity that at that time there were no such strategists as you (you are not a couch patriot there). They would have asked the Germans! Yes, without propaganda!
      1. stalkerwalker
        stalkerwalker 8 June 2016 15: 13
        +2
        Quote: Corporal Valera
        What mobilizing role this article played, you probably do not know.

        THIS IS A POLITICAL AND EDUCATIONAL WORK, conducted to raise the spirit of l / s.
        Quote: Corporal Valera
        It is a pity that at that time there were no such strategists as you (you are not a couch patriot there). They would have asked the Germans! Yes, without propaganda!

        Follow the bazaar, couch patriot.
        1. Corporal Valera
          Corporal Valera 8 June 2016 15: 24
          +4
          Quote: stalkerwalker
          THIS IS A POLITICAL AND EDUCATIONAL WORK, conducted to raise the spirit of l / s.

          But the article above in Krasnaya Zvezda told a SOME different story.
          Conclusion. The feat was. It is a fact. But do not embellish this feat.

          Is it necessary or not necessary? Something confused in the testimony.
          Quote: stalkerwalker
          Follow the bazaar, couch patriot.

          Don’t poke me, strategist level 99
          1. stalkerwalker
            stalkerwalker 8 June 2016 15: 26
            +2
            Quote: Corporal Valera
            Don’t poke me, strategist level 99

            Do not be rude,
            and watch the bazaar ....
            1. Corporal Valera
              Corporal Valera 8 June 2016 15: 35
              +2
              Quote: stalkerwalker
              Do not be rude,
              and watch the bazaar ....

              That's it. Do not be ham and watch the bazaar.
    2. Berkut752
      Berkut752 11 June 2016 12: 16
      +1
      The world has changed. We are forced to admit it. Life priorities have completely changed. People now have a new faith, a new Gospel: “Take everything from life!”

      But, for you personally. Feat of heroes - http://samlib.ru/g/gudkow_a_a/podwiggeroew.shtml
  • OlegLex
    OlegLex 10 June 2016 22: 24
    +1
    With a stubborn desire to pass off fiction as truth, you and the like question the really real facts, which bourgeois analysts have clearly demonstrated to you. The bottom line is that we are all lying about Victory, exploits, and about anything, but here is the proof of our lies. Not getting it?
    Do you want the truth? And what is the truth about war for you? Millions of raped German women? or the fact that the whole world celebrates the victory of the eighth in Berlin time, and we the ninth in Moscow. Or the fact that they brought civilization to us and we refused, and now we live without Bavarian beer. Or the fact that Leningrad had to be surrendered because the victims of Leningrad were in vain? And you, my friend, who ???
  • def89
    def89 8 June 2016 13: 10
    0
    I do not understand why you are being minus. Propaganda of the historical heritage of any country or nation is always there and will be the basis for teenage generations. Professor Ushakov, now deceased, taught us that history is not physics with mathematics and will never be an exact science. Professor Voronov, using a simple example of the formation of a Slavic ethnic group, showed how many theories he allowed to choose any, or come up with his own, but only with evidence. History has no subjunctive moods, but people write it! And breaking through the writing of chronicles and their lists or modern archives archi is a difficult task!
    1. def89
      def89 8 June 2016 13: 40
      +4
      To the one who gave me a minus! I do not care.....! If you do not agree, then the question !!!! Everyone knows the feat of the 6th company! And who knows about the 1st company of the 708th battalion of the 138th MRB in January of the same year? About the assault on Itum-Kale, in the same March? The state always needs heroes so that there is someone to match the youth !!! I do not regret that I chose the military path, although I could become a teacher! Before me always stood the prima of my grandfather, his brother, my father. And also books about the defenders of our Motherland, read in childhood. Starting from "Port Arthur" to "Sevastopol stories" and the series "Pioneers - Heroes" !!!! I apologize! hi Started with the Pioneers of Heroes! love
  • ravend
    ravend 8 June 2016 10: 38
    +1
    "hat is on fire for a thief"
    1. gladcu2
      gladcu2 8 June 2016 13: 11
      0
      Positive news can be obtained from "independent" sources.

      In 2015, the "canonization" of history. Sounds like nationalizing a bank.
  • Achilles
    Achilles 8 June 2016 10: 42
    +28
    The most widespread of these “myths” was the assertion that it was the USSR as if it had defeated Nazism, protecting Europe from it.

    In 2013, Medinsky published the book “War: Myths of the USSR” and believes that history begins “not with facts, but with interpretations” (“According to Medinsky, who is author of the book War: Myths of the USSR (published in 2013 ), history begins “not with facts but with interpretations.” ”).

    The facts say that it was the USSR that made the biggest contribution to the fight against the Nazis, here are the facts:
    The Soviet Armed Forces during the war destroyed, captured or defeated 506,5 German divisions. In addition, 100 German satellite divisions were defeated. The Allies defeated no more than 176 divisions in Western Europe, North Africa and Italy. Thus, the share of divisions defeated on the Soviet-German front is 78%.
    This is a fact, if it weren’t for us, then Europe had not existed for a long time, maybe the USA too. And this Andrew Foxall needs to be taught history, not foolish
    1. Karasik
      Karasik 8 June 2016 11: 00
      +10
      [quote = Achilles] Andrew Foxall needs to learn history and not invent nonsense [/
      I don’t think that he doesn’t know the story, he just works off grandmas for anti-Russian propaganda. Although. Who knows? What textbooks teach history!
      1. CORNET
        CORNET 8 June 2016 11: 30
        +7
        Oleg Chuvakin always writes excellent articles ....! Siberian air and the smell of pine probably acts ..? Thanks Oleg .. hi
        1. stalkerwalker
          stalkerwalker 8 June 2016 14: 19
          +4
          Quote: CORNET
          Oleg Chuvakin always writes excellent articles ..

          I agree.
          Today, when the West is actively rewriting the History of the Second World War, trying to force the local man in the street to put an equal sign between Nazi Germany and the USSR, the local ideologists are trying to catch us distorting minor facts of both the Great Patriotic War and our point of view on the causes of the Second World War. By the way, K. Shakhnazarov very unequivocally went over this topic in the final part of The White Tiger. But the audience did not appreciate this passage of the director. Both the film and the creator were spitting and blaming.
          And today, in the context of Ukrainian (and Syrian) events, Russia is accused of revisionism. They say the Russians will "adjust" the History for themselves.
          And how it really was - can know or connoisseurs of History. Or participants in the events of the latter are less and less. And in the eyes of the "enlightened West" we will forever remain such barbarians. And the doping scandal - in the bast. But not ours.
          The war is on. War....
      2. Corporal Valera
        Corporal Valera 8 June 2016 13: 30
        +4
        Quote: Karasik
        Andrew Foxall needs to learn history, not invent nonsense

        Yes, in general, deeply shag that there will (or will not) be teaching Andrew Foxol. Enrages another:
        The West should answer Putin by initiating “educational programs” in Russia.

        How these "teachers" got it! They can't eat straight, so as not to teach Russia something. Sit there in your America and teach your pimply teenagers that hamburgers can't be washed down with cola. No, b! They climb and climb and climb ... I just want to
        1. poquello
          poquello 8 June 2016 14: 56
          +1
          Quote: Corporal Valera
          Yes, in general, deeply shag that there will (or will not) be teaching Andrew Foxol. Enrages another:
          The West should answer Putin by initiating “educational programs” in Russia.
          How these "teachers" got it! They can't eat straight, so as not to teach Russia something. Sit there in your America and teach your pimply teenagers that hamburgers can't be washed down with cola. No, b! They climb and climb and climb ...

          and what do you want, they have successful experience in the information war with the USSR
          1. Corporal Valera
            Corporal Valera 8 June 2016 15: 45
            +2
            Quote: poquello
            and what do you want, they have successful experience in the information war with the USSR

            Yes, actually, I didn’t want anything. Just from the impudence of some scribblers begins to shake slightly. And for all the moronicity of his conclusions, he apparently considers himself a very intelligent person.
            1. poquello
              poquello 8 June 2016 16: 30
              0
              Quote: Corporal Valera
              Quote: poquello
              and what do you want, they have successful experience in the information war with the USSR

              Yes, actually, I didn’t want anything. Just from the impudence of some scribblers begins to shake slightly. And for all the moronicity of his conclusions, he apparently considers himself a very intelligent person.

              it’s not a scribbler, they’ll try to do it, they will offer the next Soros fund, it won’t take a ride at the federal level to the regional
      3. yehat
        yehat 8 June 2016 14: 19
        +1
        How can he know the story?
        Do you really think that they take at least something about the contribution of the USSR to the war to study for themselves?
        Therefore, many in the west are sure that the USSR did nothing. They DO NOT KNOW anything about this and do not want to know, and there was NOTHING in their perception. Unless there was a beggar of the USSR, to which Lendlis went and where millions personally cut Beria and Stalin, and the liberated balalaikas were the main export item of the country.
        Understand that about the achievements of the USSR there is a systematic silence!
        Berlin was stormed by the Americans on their bombers. Right in the streets, clipping wings (a joke) and a star-striped howled over the Reichstag. Although the British will say that it was a union jack. Ask who invented the laser and got the NOB for it - from the west they will probably answer something like Rutherford or Einstein, although even on the wiki it is indicated that they were Soviet scientists. You just do not understand what a black hole in the history of the USSR is in the heads of the West.
        1. Rarog
          Rarog 8 June 2016 14: 38
          +1
          Quote: yehat
          what a black hole in the history of the USSR in the heads of the west.


          Unfortunately, not only in the West, but also in Russia, and not only the history of the USSR is being humiliated, but also the whole history of our country, and this has been done since the time of the Millers, Schletser and Buyers. It’s a shame that it is done today through the reforms in our education by our own powers that be.
    2. 34 region
      34 region 8 June 2016 11: 45
      +2
      Achilles! 10.42. All this is wonderful. And how do we inform the western layman about this? Is he not interested in this? Is he interested in advertising? Why do they (we) watch ads? It is imposed. Do you want, do not want, but the ad unit hits the brain. We are broadcasting something to the West. Do we have advertising blocks about our Victory there? So 30 seconds to the plot? Surely not. But in vain. The 90s showed very well the power of the media. Therefore, in an information war, one must not sniff into two holes, but inflict information attacks. Do we apply them? So it is with us in the economy. Instead of delivering technological blows with a moan, come, invest, build, help ... Well, be honest. Who loves beggars? We do not need to cry, but to act. Impotence is not a sign of strength. Nobody except us. Until we ourselves begin to move the rolls, no one will respect us before and will not reckon with us. hi
      1. gladcu2
        gladcu2 8 June 2016 15: 38
        +1
        34 region

        Why do you need to inform the western man in the street? They do not care about yours and other problems.

        I will explain a little more.

        The people of this community are characterized by a single morality, a single system of survival.

        In which countries were popular performances?

        Russia - "Immortal Regiment"

        France - "Struggle of the Trade Union"

        USA .... black skirmishes in ruined neighborhoods?

        Someone needs to explain something? If the common problems of many nations are not interested, since there are no common problems.

        Common problems form common values. And if there are common values ​​then dialogue is possible.
    3. Red_Hamer
      Red_Hamer 8 June 2016 12: 45
      +3
      This one
      Andrew Foxall
      has no idea what that war was for us. There is no family in Russia that has not been affected by the war. And seeing that the great-grandchildren of those who fought or died are carrying portraits of their heroes in the ranks of the "Immortal Regiment", citizens like Andrew are simply raging! And taking into account the fact that the population of the same America was snatched from history, and even more so. They're exceptional. Another poll on the streets of US cities (there are many of those on the internet), they are delusional. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1VLr-l5kXo8 They do not know, whose ancestors for the most part did not fight, what war is. And our story is incomprehensible to them, and even forbidden. Conclusions are made according to their own cinema. And as for accusing Russia of rewriting history, first of all it is done by those who have succeeded in this themselves! Directed by Oliver Stone, he shot the documentary serial "The Untold History of the United States", in which he tried to show the real history of the United States. After watching a series about the Second World War, the American viewer fell into hysterics, the same "inadequate" at the Maidan level. The reaction of Americans to these facts, even to simple statistics of the number of deaths in the war, is amazing - they are astonishing to most.
  • Bramb
    Bramb 8 June 2016 09: 56
    +15
    The real history of Russia is deplorable: "Frankfurter Allgemeine Zeitung" recalls that ...
    ----------------
    You can not read further.
    We remember the Germans Miller and Shletser, who rewrote our history, not even understanding the Russian language.
    The Germans here listen - do not respect yourself. It is in this matter except for lying they will not say anything.
    1. Andrey K
      Andrey K 8 June 2016 10: 04
      +16
      Quote: Bramb
      It is in this matter except for lying they will not say anything.

      The level of understanding of our people and the imposition of myths about us was very colorful shown by comedian Igor Mamenko:
      1. Altona
        Altona 8 June 2016 11: 43
        +2
        Quote: Andrey K
        The level of understanding of our people and the imposition of myths about us was very colorful shown by comedian Igor Mamenko:

        --------------------
        The main conclusion was made correctly: "It is not necessary to take any aggressive actions against the Slavs." In general, they are Westerners with a different cultural matrix in their heads, they make up myths for themselves, they themselves begin to believe in them. Now such articles are published in batches. The most interesting thing is that the cult of Putin was created in the West, they are promoting it in all ways, that Putin is already "Poutine a vicaire de Dieu sur la terre. Gardez son Seigneur. Amen." "Putin is the deputy of God on Earth. God bless him. Amen." (French) A man from the distant African Congo writes to me on Facebook. Moreover, he expresses the opinion not only of his own, but also of his audience, he works at a local radio station and television, and is also a church employee.
        1. Anglorussian
          Anglorussian 8 June 2016 17: 18
          0
          A man from a distant African Congo writes this to me on Facebook.
          Africans, experience has shown, are very susceptible to propaganda. And now, any idea is easily rooted there with a minimum of effort. Look at the abundance of religious and quasi-religious sects among them. Among Europeans, a little different, however ...
  • sergo1914
    sergo1914 8 June 2016 09: 57
    +9
    They wanted to. And Rezun had to hammer the last nail into the lid of the coffin. But it turned out the other way around. He shook such a wave that overwhelmed their entire flimsy design. Db.
  • Moore
    Moore 8 June 2016 10: 00
    +11
    "Civilized" scold us? It's good.
    So something is going right.
    1. svu93
      svu93 8 June 2016 10: 05
      +7
      I agree! Once squealed, then everything is right! So, not by their will! This is normal!!!)))
    2. The comment was deleted.
  • svp67
    svp67 8 June 2016 10: 02
    +16
    The fact is that the “manipulations with history” produced by Putin constitute a “threat to the West”, and even “growing”: they reinforce the confrontational component in Moscow’s foreign policy and nourish “anti-Western sentiments” in Russian society.
    Here I agree, it is that a good knowledge of the History of Russia very much warms up ANTI-WEST MOOD in Russia.
    It would be better for them, of course, that we were "ivans who do not know kinship" ...
    And if you look at Ukraine now, you can see what successes they have achieved.
  • nrex
    nrex 8 June 2016 10: 04
    +17
    Of course you need to clarify the story. The Second World War began on June 22, 1941. The second front was opened on June 6, 1944. The victory over fascist Germany took place on May 9, 1945. Let the Allies explain why they waited three years and opened a second front only 11 months before the Victory? Specifically, what were they waiting for ??? !!! Further obscene language .....
    1. 34 region
      34 region 8 June 2016 11: 16
      +8
      10.04. What did they give? But really, why? Without them (the second front) we would have overcome. It was clear to everyone. Therefore, in military terms, they can say nothing. There have already been articles about the brave (in quotation marks) warriors of the second front. Or maybe they really are the second? Judging by how they fought, yes. But in terms of business, they are of course the first and winners. You must be able to do this, push continents into war (Europe, Union (Europe, Asia)). Then stick to the winner and share the cake !!! Upper class! And in military affairs, of course, a complete zero. Now they assure everyone that they are the best warriors and saved the world. But! Why, where the exceptional appear, the terrorists and fascists appear in the same place? Coincidence? No. Just a business. Hire the hooligans to break the glass, and then help the injured! Ingenious! So what is the engine of progress? War or trade? Or maybe all together? And who else believes in the bright smile (grin) of capitalism?
      1. Dry_T-50
        Dry_T-50 8 June 2016 14: 53
        0
        Quote: Region 34
        Without them (the second front) we would have overcome.

        But with what losses?
        1. EvgNik
          EvgNik 8 June 2016 15: 26
          +3
          Quote: Sukhoy_T-50
          But with what losses?

          And who will count the losses that we suffered as a result of state intervention in our history? By the way, we recently paid with them for a lease-lease, these are just grandchildren. And after our victory they still hoped to deal with us. Do not have illusions. It is a pity that they did not reach London (but they could). There would be fewer problems.
          1. Alexey RA
            Alexey RA 9 June 2016 11: 04
            0
            Quote: EvgNik
            By the way, we recently paid with them for a lease-lease, these are just grandchildren.

            Heh heh heh ... actually this is only because the fathers and grandfathers refused to pay the requested amount and dragged the United States into the discussion. So the payments were delayed right up to the grandchildren - while the amount was brought down.
            As a result, we paid, EMNIP, less than a percent of what we owed according to the conditions of Lend-Lease pay for civilian goods left after the war.
  • Wedmak
    Wedmak 8 June 2016 10: 07
    +12
    The most widespread of these “myths” was the assertion that it was the USSR as if it had defeated Nazism, protecting Europe from it.

    Russia's attempts to “monopoly” ascribe to itself a victory in the Second World War are unacceptable, they should be “rejected”.

    So the USSR or Russia? You already decide. But in general, how does this bad man dare to call the main contribution of the USSR to the fight against fascism a myth? He, apparently, promptly forgot when the allies connected. Let me remind you: when Hitler’s defeat became inevitable and it was necessary to have time to share the trophies.
    You have your own war - Pacific theater of war, and there talk about your victories. And do not climb into Europe, not your countries left in the land of 28 millions of their citizens. They still find the remains.
    1. poquello
      poquello 8 June 2016 11: 38
      +2
      Quote: Wedmak
      So the USSR or Russia? You already decide. But in general, how does this bad man dare to call the main contribution of the USSR to the fight against fascism a myth? He, apparently, promptly forgot when the allies connected.

      the allies were dynamically chic until the turn, beginning with the Second World War until the introduction of shame, the winners were their mother
  • ImPerts
    ImPerts 8 June 2016 10: 08
    +18
    Putin is not rewriting history so much. Representatives of one of the oldest professions rewrite it much more ...
  • The comment was deleted.
  • avg-mgn
    avg-mgn 8 June 2016 10: 09
    +5
    Quote: nrex
    Specifically, what were they waiting for ??? !!!

    Yes, they didn’t need a fight, clean business. And when it became clear that Europe would be squeezed out and the loot would float by, they turned on very carefully and again counting the money.
  • rf xnumx
    rf xnumx 8 June 2016 10: 16
    +7
    In Feodosia, the Russian ruler came across an angry pensioner who complained about the size of her pension - 8 thousand rubles. And the prices are "frantic," said a pensioner. Medvedev’s response contained a message that “there is simply no money” and an indication “stay here”
    1. ando_bor
      ando_bor 8 June 2016 23: 57
      0
      This is an Internet meme that Ukrainians created and actively promoted, even before the song appeared, then Slepakov connected with his song so successfully, I don’t think that he is so stupid that, by misunderstanding, Akhedzhaknak.
      The number of his appearances on the site indicates the activity of hohlobots, although there may be brainless victims.
      - This is how an information war looks on a patriotic website.
  • pigkiller
    pigkiller 8 June 2016 10: 17
    +5
    If scolded, then we are doing everything right. It will be bad if they begin to praise both Gorby and EBN.
  • 96423lom
    96423lom 8 June 2016 10: 17
    +8
    Urine with feces to analyze such analysts. The story of our Witnesses feeds anti-Western sentiment. And the invasion of Napolin, and the Krymkach war, when they were coalition against us, and the intervention. And the 90s, when the West was strangling us in its arms, it’s necessary to talk about it like the dollar exchange rate daily, with figures showing how MILLION the country's population has decreased, how much industrial production has fallen, and from what place in terms of living standards Russia has moved.
  • CORNET
    CORNET 8 June 2016 10: 22
    +12
    And I like what is happening now (life is not sugar, of course, but ...))) Genes are twisting in different directions and fists clenched ... Russia is alive! You're lying, you can't take it .... Another 20 years and that's it, we would be "dissolved" in a dull stream of consumerism and tolerance in everything! Late West celebrated victory ....
    And now we definitely can’t be destroyed!
    1. The comment was deleted.
    2. siberalt
      siberalt 8 June 2016 13: 21
      +2
      Victory is never too late to celebrate. Worse when early. laughing
    3. yehat
      yehat 8 June 2016 14: 30
      0
      and not a mistake, is it to say that we will never attack anyone?
      how much Mosek began to bark and harm, being sure that they would not be punished for it?
      In my opinion, Washington's position with their "national interests" is more justified in this regard. It is impossible for ... tsam to guarantee that we will not touch them for what they are trying to ... The same Lithuania would behave much more calmly if we said that our people have interests in the territory of Lithuania and there are a couple of tank divisions nearby, ready to defend these interests. I do not call for attacking for any reason, but you need to somehow defend yourself, and the same Russians outside the country, so that everyone does not wipe their feet.
      To conditional Lithuanian / Estonian / Ukrainian / Norwegian / Japanese / a
  • zurbagan63
    zurbagan63 8 June 2016 10: 29
    +4
    However, they do not really fight corruption ...
    1. forumow
      forumow 8 June 2016 11: 02
      -4
      Obviously, the authorities believe that an active fight against it, in the current situation, can do more harm than give a possible win from success in this fight. At least with the current socio-economic system. After all, butting with the West, we still play according to their rules in the field of economics. With strong pressure on many propertied corrupt officials, the outflow of capital from the country will increase. Despite corruption, there are a lot of qualified specialists among them, for whom it will not be possible to find an adequate replacement in the foreseeable future, and this will lead to losses, including financial. The fight against large-scale corruption at the same time will enable external opponents great opportunities to recruit supporters in the Russian Federation, including opportunities for blackmail will increase. In general ... it's hard!
      1. Mordvin 3
        Mordvin 3 8 June 2016 11: 30
        +2
        Quote: forumow
        The fight against large-scale corruption at the same time will allow external opponents greater opportunities to recruit for themselves supporters in the Russian Federation, including increased opportunities for blackmail. In general ... it is difficult!

        Et, according to your logic, let them steal more, so that the West cannot recruit them and blackmail them. A good position to justify the authorities' inaction in the fight against corruption, I take off my hat to your "wisdom". Let me just remind you that the export of capital goes to the West, where it is easily controlled by the special services. And, if you think that this cannot be a point of pressure on a corrupt official, then ... I don't even know ... In short, my minus.
        1. Cat man null
          Cat man null 9 June 2016 00: 15
          0
          Quote: Mordvin 3
          At your logic, let them steal moreso that the West could not recruit them, and blackmail

          - no at forumow-and such, turn on the head and logic ..

          Quote: Mordvin 3
          capital is exported to the West, where it is easily controlled by special services

          From now on, in more detail, if possible:

          - by whose special services?
          - what is controlled - the process of "export", the very existence of "exported capital" in the West, something else?
          - what is, in your opinion, "capital export"

          PS: smuggling suitcases with bucks, please do not offer laughing
    2. CORNET
      CORNET 8 June 2016 11: 27
      +1
      Quote: zurbagan63
      However, they do not really fight corruption ...

      They do not "fight" of course ... We were banned from the death penalty with confiscation!
    3. Alexey T. (Oper)
      Alexey T. (Oper) 8 June 2016 11: 52
      +5
      Quote: zurbagan63
      However, they do not really fight corruption ...

      They are fighting. Count how many governors and mayors over the past couple of years, as well as bureaucrats with a lower rank went to trial.

      The problem of corruption is not only in those who take, but also in those who give. And such - 70% of the adult population of the country, and then, I am afraid that this figure will be underestimated. Corruption is a crime in which both parties are guilty.
      1. EvgNik
        EvgNik 8 June 2016 15: 32
        +1
        Quote: Alexey T. (Opera)
        Corruption - a crime in which both parties are guilty

        Have you given bribes in your life? Yes, guilty. I did not give a single one. I do not know how to do it.
  • Londa
    Londa 8 June 2016 10: 30
    +7
    "... The most widespread of these" myths "were assurances that it was the USSR that defeated Nazism, protecting Europe from it" ...

    let him dream of 26 mil. dead and tell who defeated fascism.
  • ruAlex
    ruAlex 8 June 2016 10: 30
    +2
    Their analysts again mixed up everything, if Putin and Russia are rearranged to the west and Obama then all converge. Sclerosis however.
  • Norman_Pitkin
    Norman_Pitkin 8 June 2016 10: 33
    +2
    It is interesting that Medved Medved would answer my mother, she has a minimum pension, a little more than 6000 r !!!
    1. strannik595
      strannik595 8 June 2016 10: 50
      +1
      Have a good mood! You stay here ...... smile
  • Tambov Wolf
    Tambov Wolf 8 June 2016 10: 41
    +11
    Something the author of the article did not mention about the decision signed yesterday and agreed upon by our so-called guarantor with Netanyahu that now Russia will start paying pensions to everyone who has ever left Russia for Israel. As your own, so "there is no money, but you hold on "as" God's chosen one ", that's all. Is it reparations or is our entire pro-government gang preparing places in Israel? All traitors and traitors to the Motherland will receive ransom payments, some Sharanskys, and fugitive enemies there polIsrailya. Yes, Stalin turned over in his grave from such decisions. It's like a fig to his citizens, but everything to the Jews. How Germany is becoming. But they warned that we will pay, but howl stood that we would tear our mouths apart. So we will pay in a veiled form, but we will not know for sure how much. In the early stage of the country's development, our ancestors paid tribute, but then they gave all the people and threw off the Empire. And now again we pay tribute with oil, gas, money, people, and now "pensions". Greetings to all of you from the chief liberal with an iPhone. Not without reason, both stood in kippah at the wailing wall in Ihrail, apparently the relationship is evident.
    1. razmik72
      razmik72 8 June 2016 10: 55
      +8
      Yesterday I was also surprised at this news - why should Russia pay pensions to its former citizens who moved to Israel for permanent residence?
      1. BladeRunner
        BladeRunner 8 June 2016 11: 50
        +1
        And not even former citizens. These are those who moved to Israel before 1992.

        http://www.dp.ru/a/2016/06/07/Rossija_zaplatit_pensii_10/
      2. Cat man null
        Cat man null 8 June 2016 13: 40
        +2
        Quote: razmik72
        Yesterday I was also surprised at this news

        Quote: BladeRunner
        These are those who moved to Israel before 1992.

        - for those who know how to be surprised well, but do not know how to search in the internet - here, read laughing


        - and will be for you yes
  • AKsvlad047
    AKsvlad047 8 June 2016 11: 12
    0
    Fagots do not climb to us for God's sake, we are at home and do not have more than 100 military bases around the world! Yankees take your military to the territory of your country, and then teach us life! Democrats are bad!
  • osoboye_mneniye
    osoboye_mneniye 8 June 2016 11: 29
    +1
    "The West can keep repeating that the sanctions are directed against the authorities .."
    This design has always touched me. In the sense that our "partners" are positioning the reason for the sanctions for Russian citizens. Like, you citizens have chosen bad government. We will give you sanctions as a present of poverty, and you are abolishing the elected government, and then everything will be fine with you again - as before the sanctions (although what good was there ...). Even if we assume that there is some kind of rational grain in dissatisfaction with the authorities, then an attempt to bend the whole people nullifies all the attempts of the "partners". They have a whole institute for studying the USSR. What are they taught there ??
    True, three years ago I had a conversation with a man who argued that the government should be changed, because this power gives him the opportunity to break the law. And he himself cannot stop transgressing without the help of the authorities. This is absolutely serious about an adult, an engineer, a retiree already, practically .. So slowly, but the situation is moving in the direction necessary for our "friends", unfortunately.
  • olimpiada15
    olimpiada15 8 June 2016 11: 34
    +2
    Work out the order. And not aware of them that
    1) anti-Western sentiment is the result of the attitude of the West towards the Russian people.
    You won’t be fed up with pro-Western slogans, but the sanctions were really directed not against the Russian authorities, they have a decent fat accumulated, but against the population, so that people feel bad and they rebel. And instead of improving the situation, they would lose the economy. That is what became the result of the Euro-revolt in Ukraine. Dreaming of European incomes, they received European prices, and lost income, just like work.
    2) not the West to teach us history. In a country where the Second World War affected every family in all 1/6 of the land, the memory of those events is not easy to destroy. As the action showed the Immortal Regiment, we know and remember.
    And such statements will not add credibility to the West-annoyance you cannot hide.
  • vanavatny
    vanavatny 8 June 2016 11: 39
    +5
    I’m tired, I’ll go for a walk, I’ve already got drunk in the morning and have prayed to Putin, and I fulfilled the norm for killing oppositionists three days ago, by the way: you don’t have to let out the Melvedev to the people anymore, let him drill at party congresses - everyone is there, but on the street one day it can reach kurtosis (even in Crimea)
  • D. Dan
    D. Dan 8 June 2016 11: 39
    +2
    Firstly, the following image of Putin is enshrined in Russian society: he is the defender of Russia, and it must be defended because the “predator West” attacks her.


    Well deck, the way it is!

    You know, guys from the west, and licking their anus, I somehow don’t have to rub, that “abroad will help us,” and “she tells us the truth,” I went through this, and the voice of Omeriga in the receiver was still vef, and so on, advertising and MMM, then Birch and Goose, I will decide everything myself, and for the propaganda of Putin and for the propaganda of the fifth and sixth columns, I am on my own.
    EZHELI Putin redraws the story, then for some part I agree with him and all the trouble.
  • osoboye_mneniye
    osoboye_mneniye 8 June 2016 11: 47
    +2
    Quote: CORNET

    They do not "fight" of course ... We were banned from the death penalty with confiscation!

    Now our statehood is weak. Laws don't work well. There are many bad people among the performers. If we introduce execution and confiscation now, there will be a lot of abuse, and the price of judicial "mistakes" will rise to the price of a person's life, and our partners will vote about the new 37th. If everything was so easy.
    1. there
      there 8 June 2016 20: 24
      0
      The civilized version of 1937 in Singapore was a massive purge of a stolen apparatus, carried out by Lee Kuan Yew, the creator of the Singapore miracle. Even a very democratic film director Andrei Konchalovsky dreams of such an option in 1937, who writes: “A sense of responsibility arises when cruel laws are issued, corresponding punishments for breaking the laws, for theft and so on. Do not know how? So read Lee Kuan Yew about Singapore, about how he managed in fifteen years to create a modern state from a country with medieval orders ... This should be a whole formula for the forced introduction of social responsibility ””
  • Cat man null
    Cat man null 8 June 2016 11: 49
    +3
    About pensions to Russian pensioners who left for Israel and not only:

    Quote: Tambov Wolf
    now Russia will start paying pensions to anyone who has ever left Russia for Israel

    Lies negative

    - these pensions are paid only to those who emigrated, already being a pensioner
    - these pensions were paid always
    - in 2015, the State Duma wanted to cancel it, but ended in nothing

    Quote: http://www.ng.ru/economics/2016-05-27/1_pensii.html
    The treaty with Israel is not a unique phenomenon ... in 2015, 16 such international treaties were in force with 20 states.
    ...
    Until 1992, those who left the USSR for Israel were forced to write a statement on renouncing Soviet citizenship, and there was no talk of paying pensions.

    - the "new agreement" just applies to those pensioners who left before 1992

    Quote: Tambov Wolf
    As your own, so "no money, but you hold on"

    Lies negative

    - it was about indexing pensions
    - Medvedev's answer - "while there is no money, how we find it - we will index it"

    Feel the difference, what's called wink

    Quote: Tambov Wolf
    The mercenaries will go to all traitors and traitors of the motherland ... It’s like a cookie to their citizens, but to the Jews everything ...

    We pay tribute with oil, gas, money, people, and now with "pensions".

    Hello everyone from the main liberal with an iPhone. No wonder they both stood in piles at the wailing wall in Ihrail, apparently kinship is affecting

    - apparently "Tambov Wolf" someone’s cap goes, specifically fool
    - Wolf, as you can see, the main thing shit pump up thicker. And people, he shoves everything yes
    - and it’s true, why it’s necessary to understand what is really happening - the Wolf explained everything to us fool

    - Wolf-Wolf, and why do you have such big eyes?
    - Get out !! You do not see me cru I’m crying !!
    1. RUSS
      RUSS 8 June 2016 11: 52
      +2
      Quote: Cat Man Null
      - it was about the indexation of pensions - Medvedev's answer - "while there is no money, how we find it - we will index it"

      Medvedev honestly answered, it is not clear that they again got fed up with him ....
      1. Cat man null
        Cat man null 8 June 2016 12: 17
        +1
        Quote: RUSS
        Medvedev honestly answered, it is not clear that they again got fed up with him ....

        The following ... categories of persons "got mad":

        - who "heard the ringing, but does not know where he is"
        - to whom only give a reason to yell, how bad everything is and what all

        I frankly sorry the first category:

        - people raise their own pressure and create a headache
        - it seems they’re not banned in Google, finding the right article is two minutes, reading is another five
        - well no .. we already Tambov Wolf wrote on the fence laughing

        The second category, as my weak strengths, I have always crushed, crushed, and I will crush yes

        Something like that.
        1. there
          there 9 June 2016 20: 07
          0
          If Medvedev and his entourage had lived honestly, then there was enough money in the Budget for retirement with a margin.
          1. there
            there 9 June 2016 20: 43
            0
            Medvedev reached the climax of stupidity! - Mikhail Delyagin 22.04.16/0/2 / Economics / Says Moscow. www.youtube.com/watch?v=45wEvGXNUMXmXNUMXvo
      2. The comment was deleted.
      3. EvgNik
        EvgNik 8 June 2016 15: 45
        -1
        Quote: RUSS
        Medvedev honestly answered, it is not clear that they again got fed up with him ....

        An iPhone will remain an iPhone, or an iPhone.
    2. RUSS
      RUSS 8 June 2016 11: 52
      +1
      Quote: Cat Man Null
      - it was about the indexation of pensions - Medvedev's answer - "while there is no money, how we find it - we will index it"

      Medvedev honestly answered, it is not clear that they again got fed up with him ....
      But now the opposition before the elections promises "manna from heaven" to pensioners!
      1. The comment was deleted.
      2. Mordvin 3
        Mordvin 3 8 June 2016 13: 11
        +2
        Quote: RUSS
        Medvedev honestly replied

        1. Cat man null
          Cat man null 8 June 2016 16: 06
          0
          Vladimir, what you have laid out is an installation (that is, a lie) yes

          The full video is here (I don’t want to upload it a second time, I’m clogging the tape):


          Good advice to you: be careful .. with information laughing
          1. Mordvin 3
            Mordvin 3 8 June 2016 18: 04
            +2
            Quote: Cat Man Null
            Vladimir, what you have laid out is an installation (that is, a lie)

            The song is good. laughing Why not neighing?
            1. Cat man null
              Cat man null 8 June 2016 20: 56
              0
              Quote: Mordvin 3
              The song is good

              - did not find a "good song" there
              - found five loafers, something completely mediocre
              - it’s cool that there are people who also spend money watching it request
              - by the way, all these "songs" are the fruits of the notorious "freedom of speech" (so that she was empty). There is no censorship on them, mmm ..

              Voooot .. request
    3. atalef
      atalef 8 June 2016 11: 56
      +3
      Quote: Cat Man Null
      - these pensions are paid only to those who emigrated, already being a pensioner

      no, pensions are paid to those who have worked as retirees
      Quote: Cat Man Null
      these pensions have always been paid

      nor always, started the year so from 2003-2005
      Quote: Cat Man Null
      the "new agreement" just applies to those pensioners who left before 1992

      i.e. left Russia, but citizens of the USSR
      Quote: Tambov Wolf
      The mercenaries will go to all traitors and traitors of the motherland ... It’s like a cookie to their citizens, but to the Jews everything ...

      Traitors? These people earned pensions through their labor.
      1. Cat man null
        Cat man null 8 June 2016 12: 11
        +1
        Quote: atalef
        Quote: Cat Man Null
        - these pensions are paid only to those who emigrated, already being a pensioner

        no, pensions are paid to those who have worked as retirees

        - What about an industrial accident? and others, others? Shaw, didn’t they pay?

        Quote: atalef
        Quote: Cat Man Null
        these pensions have always been paid

        nor always, started the year so from 2003-2005

        - maybe .. until 2005 I somehow was not interested in this request
        - correctly the phrase sounds like this: "in my memory these pensions have always been paid "
        1. atalef
          atalef 8 June 2016 12: 42
          +2
          Quote: Cat Man Null
          - What about an industrial accident? and others, others? Shaw, didn’t they pay?

          no, this should change now
          According to the Israeli Russian-language site Izrus, Israel will have to provide Russia with a list of pensioners, disabled people, victims of the Chernobyl disaster, as well as accurate data on the date of emigration, the part of the former USSR where the future pensioner lived and worked, his work experience (if he exceeded five years) and other information. In Soviet Russia, the retirement age was 60 years for men and 55 years for women.
      2. The comment was deleted.
    4. atalef
      atalef 8 June 2016 12: 06
      +2
      Quote: Cat Man Null
      The wolf, as you can see, the main thing is to pump thicker. And people, he shoves everything


      Quote: Cat Man Null
      Wolf-Wolf, and why do you have such big eyes?
      - Get out !! You don’t see - I poop !!

      They sent Little Red Riding Hood to take the pies to the grandmother somehow. Well, I pulled
      she along the long road, as usual the wolf shook her, ran and gobbled up
      rotten granny. He lay down in bed, dressed and waiting. Approached, it means,
      A hat.
      - Hello Grandma!
      - Hello, hat :)
      “I brought you some pies,” and he gives the granny (wolf) the pies.
      - Thank you, granddaughter! Sit next to me, talk to me.
      “OK, grandmother,” the granddaughter said, and sat down.
      I looked at the granny and asked:
      - Grandma, why do you have such big ears?
      - And this is to better hear you, granddaughter.
      “Grandma, why do you have such big eyes?”
      - And this is to see you better, granddaughter!
      “Grandma, why do you have such a big nose?”
      - And this is because I am a Jew, - said the wolf and cried...

      wolf - Tambov laughing wassat tongue
      1. Cat man null
        Cat man null 8 June 2016 12: 43
        +1
        Quote: atalef
        “Grandma, why do you have such a big nose?”
        “And this is because I am a Jew,” said the wolf and cried ...

        good laughing +100
  • svu93
    svu93 8 June 2016 11: 59
    0
    Quote: Tambov Wolf
    No wonder they both stood in bales near the wailing wall in Ihrail, and kinship is evidently affecting.

    I’ll insert my 5 cents. Standing at the Wailing Wall without a bale is tantamount to entering the Orthodox Church in a headdress for men and with an uncovered head for women; or in shoes with a mosque; or with open heels and legs in a Buddhist temple!
    1. pigkiller
      pigkiller 8 June 2016 12: 18
      +1
      If someone doesn’t allow someone to put on a pile (when visiting a synagogue, for example), then you can cover your head with at least a cap)
    2. Cat man null
      Cat man null 8 June 2016 13: 07
      +2
      Quote: svu93
      Standing at the Wailing Wall without a bale is tantamount to entering the Orthodox Church in a headdress for men and with an uncovered head for women

      - in 1998 was on vacation in Israel
      - near the Kotel, was in a cap woven from something wooden, with a solar panel on the top and a propeller on his forehead
      - no one told me anything bad about this
      - possibly because the cap was bought in Jerusalem during the tour laughing
      1. svu93
        svu93 8 June 2016 14: 57
        +1
        no, because my head was covered with something!))) I was wearing a baseball cap "Polite people" for the last time! laughing
        PS And in the same shirt !!!))))))))
      2. svu93
        svu93 8 June 2016 14: 57
        0
        no, because my head was covered with something!))) I was wearing a baseball cap "Polite people" for the last time! laughing
        PS And in the same shirt !!!))))))))
  • Volzhanin
    Volzhanin 8 June 2016 12: 14
    +3
    All this only shows how miserable Americans are, miserable, flawed, short-sighted (or rather dumb), deceitful, unprincipled, insignificant degrading amoebas.
    Being close to them is the wildest masochism and complete disrespect for your personality.
    From lepers, one must stay away, as well as from loonies.
    Lavrov is right - dl, b ..!
  • Wolka
    Wolka 8 June 2016 12: 18
    0
    but someone wise said: "if they are discussing you behind your back, then your life is more interesting than theirs," as well as the fact that "if they spit in your back, then you are still ahead" ...
  • parusnik
    parusnik 8 June 2016 12: 34
    0
    A nation that has forgotten its past has no future ...
  • gcn
    gcn 8 June 2016 12: 54
    +2
    The West does not need to conquer us, they want a situation of the 90s when it was possible to lease deposits for 50 years, pay for uranium (not only) at the price of scrap metal. Otherwise, we are the 21st century Indians for them, that's their story that is being imposed on us.
  • eyed
    eyed 8 June 2016 12: 57
    +2
    Quote: Andrey K
    Quote: poquello

    The creators of the film about the Panfilov heroes in Russia do not want to pay attention to new historical data.

    it is not necessary to interfere with the history of propaganda, you can carefully divert this event from the "historical", for example by giving it as the author's inspiration from the story at the front, the story is good, beautiful, heroic, but according to the story, there is an excellent example of Kibalchish A. Gaidar

    I can answer you in the same way - there is a great example of Badman A. Gaidar. Let me remind you of his assessment of the homeland and honor - a basket of cookies and a jar of jam negative
    There is even a fictional recent story, without Arkady Petrovich Gaidar (Golikov) - starring Victoria Nuland negative
    You are now, on this thread, promoting the "research" of the former director of the State Archives S. Mironenko request

    Well, if you cite Gaidar's action movie as an example, then Plohish looks very heroic there - one against everyone, a real spy-saboteur, I noted this as a child when I watched a movie. And, so, what kind of reward to whom - so it is who likes what ... And regarding our history, so in it always "hold on, and there is no money." And we hold on and we have no money. This is how the iPhone is with money, I think that the question is inappropriate. The most interesting thing is that the history of both the Russian Empire and the USSR can and should be proud of - and there is for what and for whom. But at the expense of the history of the Russian Federation ..... sadness, but for the 90s finally pulls to burp ...
  • fa2998
    fa2998 8 June 2016 12: 58
    +3
    Finally, gos.Medvedev overtook gos.Putin in popularity. After Putin's catchphrases, "We are not 37 years old" and "We will soak in the toilet" Medvedev was in the shade. But after the pearl, "There is no money, but you hold on there!" - burst out in front. laughing good hi
    1. Red_Hamer
      Red_Hamer 8 June 2016 13: 14
      +4
      Finally, gos.Medvedev overtook gos.Putin in popularity. After Putin's catchphrases, "We are not 37 years old" and "We will soak in the toilet" Medvedev was in the shade. But after the pearl, "There is no money, but you hold on there!" - burst out in front.
      Lavrov is still the leader. With his immortal, sacred phrase!
  • 33 Watcher
    33 Watcher 8 June 2016 12: 58
    0
    So, I do not understand, but what is the "rewriting"? request
  • tor978
    tor978 8 June 2016 13: 23
    +1
    Well, God's chosen nation can be rewritten history, but Russia cannot write the truth. It was the "allies" who defeated fascism (Italian, German, Japanese). And the Russians just dropped vigorous bombs on two Japanese cities (this is what most young Japanese and Americans think at the moment). In the West, there is a continuous forgery of history. And these "nasty Russians" are trying to tell the truth, which is unacceptable for the West.
  • Forever so
    Forever so 8 June 2016 13: 33
    0
    That's because the next American fallen woman !!!, frankly, to read the next custom-made libel from our Western partners is not only not interesting, but not even disgusting. Well, buzzing yet another heinous from under the tail of an American cow. How many were there, how many will be. The only pity is that the Russian media, being under the full control of America, cannot give an adequate answer. so expressing ourselves in Russian, in national - We have seen you repeatedly, lovers of anal values ​​!!
  • nesvobodnye
    nesvobodnye 8 June 2016 13: 58
    +1
    Western analysts believe that Russia is not doing well, not only with the past, but also with the present.


    And who are these Western analysts? Can they be trusted?
  • Stalnov I.P.
    Stalnov I.P. 8 June 2016 14: 22
    +5
    I will not talk about the War, I was brought up in the USSR, my grandfather and uncle died at the front and the opuses of this American hack just insult the memory of millions of Soviet people who died in the war, but most of all the performance of the hack scribes of the Russian style, the same Mironenko, is insulting, and for some reason they are allowed to speak on all central channels. The writer Sotnikov in one of his works has approximately the following words: "I will take a crowbar to heat one of its sides and shove it into Hitler's ass with the cold side, why cold, but because no bastard could pull it out," such a scrap is needed as for Western and Russian scribblers, politicians, specialists and other trash who vulgarize our VICTORY and HISTORY. Likewise, the first leaders of the RUSSIAN state should carefully monitor their performances and assessments, assessing others you give US the right to assess you. I would like to add, let's say honestly and in principle, the POWER completely failed its internal policy, in particular - the economy, personnel, ideology and all these CRISES, SANCTIONS are the fruits of mediocrity, stupidity and criminal negligence of the authorities. Raising their salaries at the end of 2014, the beginning of 2015, the authorities simply SPITCHED in the face of their people and that pensioner from 8 thousand rubles, while the prices for everything almost doubled, and salaries were either cut or remained at the same level ... About 23 million rubles live below the poverty line, and the prime minister had to see how his wife was resting, which was so colorfully written and reported by some media, you did not cheat yourself dear. You were chosen for what YOU would create, create, multiply, and while you are sawing, divide and steal.
  • Ruzina Natalia
    Ruzina Natalia 8 June 2016 15: 56
    +4
    All my life I was tormented by the question why they hate Russia and Russians so much. And we try to be good, to be friends with the West, we listen to "advisers". And they are all little and little. They distort our history and us, make us doubt the permissibility of our existence, especially stubbornly force us to abhor the power, and anybody at that. But my country lives! We also live with her. There are no such laws of physics, laws of nature, allowing to destroy some people for the sake of others. Yes, demons are raging (this is not a tautology), they are angry, various analysts write vile articles about me, a Russian woman to the bone, a mother, a grandmother, who sacredly remembers numerous relatives killed in a harsh war. It doesn't matter to me whether Panfilov's men were there or not, it is important that my dad and mom survived, because they might not. And even if there were no Panfilovites, they would have to be invented so that the soldiers would rise up and drive the terrible fascism away from my land. Now I am not tormented by the question of why they hate me so much, I don’t care from the high bell tower at everyone who wants me not to be. I am! My country is !!! My children are! And it's time for you to get used to it.
  • Pitot
    Pitot 8 June 2016 16: 22
    +1
    Ha, History. We still live according to the Merikanov Constitution. Ugh, looking at night I remembered the unclean.
  • mark2
    mark2 8 June 2016 16: 47
    0
    I don’t know ... Again, a hot topic and heated debate. The whole problem is that there is no unity among historians or politicians about history. Maybe everyone should get together and agree on the course of events of one or another significant event for us. Well, we want we are proud of the feat of 28 Panfilovites. Let them be. Even if these are not really real people, then for the sake of the patriotic education of the younger generations, they should be. Personally, I have no doubt about their real existence. Even if their names were different, but they were. The heroism of the Soviet people, their sacrifice could give more than one platoon of such Panfilov’s. And maybe tens or hundreds.
    All disputes do not come from the fact that historians are right or wrong about something. And from the fact that we ourselves are ready to deceive ourselves in our souls. And so that this does not happen in the future, just need to write clearly: "Panfilov's men were", "The USSR defeated fascism," Stalin played a key organizational role in the USSR's victory over the united fascist Europe ", etc. and never come back to this. And from generation to generation to pass it all on. And I don’t care what the US thinks there, which entered the war, because it was required by the political moment; I don’t care what Europe thinks.
    After all, the stuffing of any AmerkanInterestists cast doubt on the fragile minds of sofa historians who, having read this, try to write their wrong inventions, and people who are far from history having read this begin to believe in fairy tales.
  • 1536
    1536 8 June 2016 18: 42
    0
    If the Americans don’t like something in Russia, they can ... leave here, or not come at all. Then piss off. And here is M. Bom, an American
    a journalist living in Russia says he is well here.
    By eliminating socialism, Russia has become a competitor to the United States and the West. The lie that we don’t have anything or that we are behind civilization no longer passes.
    In the West they say bluntly that if now we do not stop Russia and the Russians, then we will never stop them. We must not be stopped! The 1941-1942 was harder. However, they defeated the Germans and drove them to Berlin. And a Ukrainian from the archive can express his opinion - we have democracy and freedom of speech.
    I would look at the director of the American archive, who would say that there was no bombing of Pearl Harbor, but that there was a raid by Japanese aircraft, and the slovenliness of the American military led to numerous casualties among them, and whether to numerous? Probably, the next day after these words, this historian would become unemployed at best!
  • Grave With Cross 3
    Grave With Cross 3 8 June 2016 18: 47
    0
    Trends! Here's a pure example of the manipulation of history: the opening of the notorious Yeltsin Center. The same Yeltsin, who, for the sake of his dirty power, killed thousands of people during the shooting of the White House. Bloody Yeltsin. And they gave him a museum. I am already silent about the fact that Yeltsin sold the entire country to the "oligarchs" (as they call themselves). This is the manipulation of history that takes place today, here and now.
    1. Grave With Cross 3
      Grave With Cross 3 8 June 2016 18: 48
      0
      And here the center is open to this! So that kids watch and learn how to shed blood of their own people.
  • cedar
    cedar 8 June 2016 19: 21
    +1
    Whose cow mumbled, and your Mr. Foxall was silent.
    You really liberated, not only Europe and not from the fascists, but America from its indigenous peoples, Indians. Of the 60 true Americans, you left 000 alive, and they drove them on a reservation !!! And now, dress under them, stealing their freedom, life and history from them! Isn’t it hard to live with such a historical burden in your soul? And while soaring the brains of Russia, which your military butts and their traces on their land did not forget and remember, but you still did not know our boot .., but for some reason they threaten everyone with the Russian threat.
    Now you climb and Russia to free it from Russian "Indians". This number will not work for you and your hosts! No matter how much you puffed up declaring that "the Anglo-American troops took Germany, and the Russian troops helped them," the truth will still come out and walk through the streets "Immortal Russian regiments!"
  • rJIiOK
    rJIiOK 8 June 2016 20: 15
    0
    Yes .. white is black, black is white.
    In my opinion, a distortion of reality should be regarded as a crime
  • 8654
    8654 8 June 2016 23: 22
    +1
    Something I didn’t even doubt that "28 Panfilovites" cannot be regarded simply as a movie that is doomed to success, because people want to see such a film about Soviet defenders. soldier... It was imperative to blurt out about the "hand of the Kremlin" and Putin's many moves and the fact that this is insidious propaganda and myth-making, to regard it as a successful feature film in advance for which there is a demand (a film is a commodity fool), such analysts cannot.
    Apparently "analysts" they are from the word - anal.
  • japs
    japs 8 June 2016 23: 40
    +3
    Against the background of the iPhone blunder - "there is no money, but you hold on!" Somewhat annoying is the signed agreement between the Guarantor and Netanyahu on the payment of pensions to the chosen ones who have left. Over 5 billion have been provided for this since 2017. If I am wrong, enlighten me.
  • erik cartman
    erik cartman 9 June 2016 00: 07
    +1
    Quote: Andrey K
    The American Interest tells of Putin’s “rewriting” of the history of Russia ... it simply touches negative
    The Americans wanted to write us our story fool
    And this "nasty" Putin does not give laughing
    ...Putin’s “manipulations with history” constitute a “threat to the West,” since they nourish “anti-Western sentiments” in Russian society...
    These sentiments, anti-Western, have a foundation. But opposition to the attempts of the "West" to put everything "upside down" and "conceal" its unsightly role, cause hysteria in the latter request

    Americans first need to figure out their story before poking their nose in ours. The Indians were almost destroyed, blacks collected cotton for food for 200 years. What story can descendants of European rabble write to us?
  • Alexy
    Alexy 9 June 2016 04: 55
    0
    I dont know. But anything is discussed here, but not the article.
  • wandlitz
    wandlitz 9 June 2016 05: 08
    0
    But how many Americans know their story? And they’re also trying to teach us [media = http: // https: //youtu.be/fx4YiSiUFbk]