Military Review

Overwhelming youth

58
Soviet commanders had indisputable advantages over German

The Great Patriotic War showed the importance of the role of the commanders of fronts and armies.

Tell about fifteen leading military leaders on both sides. Information about the Soviet command is taken in the new 12-volume edition of the Great Patriotic War 1941 – 1945. Information about the German generals is contained in the biographical encyclopedic dictionary of KA Zalessky "Who was who in the Third Reich."

Among 15, the leading German military leaders of 13 were Field Marshal Generals: F. von Bock, V. von Brauchitsch, V. Keitel, E. von Kleist, G. von Kluge, G. von Kühler, V. von Leeb, V. List, E von Manstein, W. Model, F. Paulus, W. von Reichenau, G. von Rundstedt; one is Colonel General G. Guderian; one is General-Admiral G. von Friedeburg. With the exception of Friedeburg, each of them was in 50 years, seven began a war against the USSR at the age of 60 and older. Rundstedt, commander of Army Group South, turned 66; Leeb, commander of Army Group North, is 65 years; Bock, Commander of Army Group Center, 61 Year; as much to Liszt, commander of Army Group "A" operating in the Caucasus.

Each of the one and a half dozen representatives of the Soviet high command staff was not even 50 years old. Nine of them during the war were marshals of the Soviet Union: A. M. Vasilevsky, L. A. Govorov, G. K. Zhukov, I. S. Konev, R. Ya. Malinovsky, K. A. Meretskov, K. K Rokossovsky, S. K. Timoshenko, F. I. Tolbukhin. Five had the rank of army general: A. I. Antonov, I. Kh. Baghramyan, F. I. Golikov, A. I. Eremenko, I. D. Chernyakhovsky and one — N. G. Kuznetsov — admiral fleet. The oldest - 49-year-old Eremenko was a deputy, and then commander of a number of fronts. The 47-year-old Tolbukhin is the same. 46-year-old Vasilevsky - first deputy, after a while the chief of the General Staff, then the front commander. Marshals Govorov, Konev and Meretskov started the war at 44, Zhukov and Rokossovsky at 45. Chernyakhovsky was 35, Kuznetsov was 37 years old.

Soviet commanders fully used the advantages of youth: the ability to quickly acquire professional knowledge, performance, the ability to instantly respond to changing situations and find non-standard solutions, accumulate the experience of the enemy and oppose him with innovative options.

Age has affected the formation of military leaders. German commanders, almost all who came from the hereditary military, graduated from the Academy before the First World War, in 1907 – 1914. Soviet military leaders graduated from various military academies after the First World War and the Civil War, in 1927 – 1937. Academic education did not have two of them - Zhukov and Rokossovsky. But thanks to the independent permanent work and exceptional abilities, they thoroughly mastered the military theory.

Bloody experience


Before the fascist aggression, Soviet commanders did not have combat experience in modern wars. The experience of Wehrmacht operations in Europe in 1939 – 1941 was not analyzed. The nature of the Winter War with Finland was studied very superficially, in which many miscalculations in the actions of the Red Army were manifested. No serious conclusions were made then. A significant part of the national command, especially the higher circles, remained captive to the experience of the First World War and the Civil War.

Overwhelming youth

From left to right: Marshals of the Soviet Union I. S. Konev, F. I. Tolbukhin, A. M. Vasilevsky, R. Ya. Malinovsky, G. K. Zhukov, L. A. Govorov, K. K. Rokossovsky, Army General A.I. Yeremenko, Marshal of the Soviet Union K.A. Meretskov, Army General I. Kh. Bagramyan. Moscow. June 1945 of the year

At first, our commanders were inferior to German in professional terms. The commanders of the five fronts created on the first day of the war (Northern, Northwestern, Western, Southwestern and Southern) - M.M. Popov, F.I. Kuznetsov, D.G. Pavlov, M.P. Kirponos and I. V. Tyulenev - did not cope with their tasks. They were unable to reasonably organize the defense, lost control of the troops, showed confusion.

Commander of the Western Front Army General Pavlov in Spain commanded tank brigade, then followed by rapid promotion: head of the Armored Directorate of the Red Army, from 1940 - commander of the Western Special Military District. And a year later war broke out with a little. And 44 divisions were immediately subordinate to him. The commander of the Southwestern Front, Colonel General Kirponos also made a quick climb up the ranks: in the war with Finland, he commanded an infantry division, less than three months an infantry corps, then he subsequently became commander of the Leningrad and Kiev special military districts. As front commander, he had to manage more than 58 formations. Such a load was beyond the power of both. In addition, they did not master the methods of managing strategic, front-line and army operations worked out by the enemy on European fields.

Pavlov was removed from the post of commander a week after the start of the war, Kirponos died surrounded by September 20 1941. The remaining three front commanders were dismissed as unmanaged.

Unfortunately, other marshals and generals turned out to be professionally untenable. During the 46 months of war, the posts of the front commanders were occupied by the 43 man, moreover, from five to ten fronts acted in different periods. Most commanders - 36 visited these positions in the first 14 months. Only on the Western Front, in just four months, seven commanders changed.

Back in 1944, Zhukov noted: “We had no pre-selected and well-trained commanders of fronts, armies, corps, divisions. At the head of the fronts were people who failed one thing after another (Pavlov, Kuznetsov, Popov, Budyonny, Cherevichenko, Tyulenev, Ryabyshev, etc.). ”

Untrained people were forced to be appointed to high command positions. But there were simply no others, the reserve of personnel at the operational-strategic and operational levels was absent. The corps of the front commanders was formed only by the fall of 1942.

Pleiad of winners


In the ensuing 32 months of war, only seven new 43 commanders were appointed to such high positions. I. Kh. Baghramyan, N. F. Vatutin, L. A. Govorov, G. K. Zhukov, I. S. Konev, R. Ya. Malinovsky, K. A. Meretskov, K. K. Rokossovsky, I. D. Chernyakhovsky. Their so important qualities as youth, extremely deep knowledge. stories and theories of military art, ennobled by talent and willpower, ensured rapid mastery of the methods of modern warfare and allowed them to professionally outperform German commanders.

In early September, 1941 of the year Soviet troops under the command of G. K. Zhukov carried out the first offensive during the war to defeat the strike force of the German fascist troops in the Yelni area. And on December 5, 1941-led troops of the Western Front launched a counteroffensive near Moscow. The victory was achieved thanks to the skillful actions of the commander.

Zhukov possessed the gift of foreseeing the intentions of the enemy, the ability to penetrate into the essence of the created situation and find effective solutions and methods of actions in accordance with the prevailing conditions. Together with Vasilevsky, he proposed to abandon the unsuccessful counterattacks and conduct an offensive operation to encircle and destroy the Nazi troops near Stalingrad. In the summer of 1943, Zhukov guided the actions of the fronts in the Battle of Kursk, which began with the repelling of enemy attacks and the subsequent transfer of Soviet forces to the offensive. At the final stage of the war, in the Berlin operation, he brought into battle two tank armies to defeat a strong enemy force on the outskirts of the city, in order to avoid protracted battles in the capital of the Reich. Zhukov carefully worked out all operations, provided them with all-round capabilities, skillfully applied one of the most important principles of military art - concentrating forces and means on the directions of the main attack in order to defeat the main enemy groups.

The operations of one of the most gifted commanders of the Great Patriotic Marshal KK Rokossovsky were distinguished by originality, the ability to use the weaknesses of the enemy, to ensure maximum fire support for troops in defense and offensive, and creative solutions to the tasks at hand. In the battles in the area of ​​Stalingrad, his subordinate troops of the Don Front participated in the encirclement of the German fascist forces and its destruction by the method of sequential cutting off. In the battles near Kursk in the summer of 1943, by Rokossovsky’s decision, for the first time, an artillery counter-training, which played a certain role, was carried out. In the Belarusian offensive operation 1944, the headquarters adopted an unusual proposal by Rokossovsky for the two forces attacking the 1 of the Belorussian front led by the troops to surround and destroy the Bobruisk enemy grouping.

The commanding art of Marshal I. S. Konev, especially in the offensive Kirovograd, Korsun-Shevchenko, Uman-Botosha, Lviv-Sandomir, Vislo-Oder, Berlin, Prague operations, was also vividly manifested. And none of them, by design and execution, repeated the other. Each one was distinguished by its originality, creative approach to solving operational problems, bore the stamp of individuality, military leadership inspiration.

Marshal KA Meretskov superbly acted as commander of the Volkhov and Karelian fronts, where operations were carried out in a complex wooded and swampy area with numerous lakes and rivers. Despite the incredibly difficult conditions, his troops, together with the Leningrad Front at the beginning of 1943, broke through the blockade. In 1944, the troops of the Karelian Front liberated Karelia, the Soviet Arctic and northern honor of Norway. As a result, Finland withdrew from the war.

Success in these operations was achieved thanks to the leadership art of Meretskov. He was distinguished by a skillful choice of directions of the main attack, thoughtful concentration on these areas of troops and material and technical reserves with a limited number of roads, bold roundabout maneuvers to reach the flanks and rear of the enemy, as well as coordinated actions with the Northern Fleet and the Onega flotilla. These operations were included in the national military historiography among the best achievements of Soviet military art.

Vasilevsky and Malinovsky, Govorov and Tolbukhin, Eremenko and Chernyakhovsky were distinguished by their creative originality, originality, thorough forethought and ability to translate into life strategic operations.

The propaganda minister of Nazi Germany J. Goebbels 18 March 1945 made the following entry in his diary: “The General Staff sent me a book with biographies and photographs of Soviet generals and marshals. From this book you can read a lot of things that we have missed to do in the past years. Marshals and generals are on average extremely young, almost none older than 50 years ... The command elite of the Soviet Union is formed from a class better than our own. I told the Führer about the book of the General Staff about the Soviet marshals and generals that I reviewed, and added: I have the impression that we cannot compete with such a selection of personnel. The Fuhrer fully agreed with me: our generals are too old and too exhausted. ”
Author:
Originator:
http://vpk-news.ru/articles/30964
58 comments
Ad

Subscribe to our Telegram channel, daily additional materials that do not get on the site: https://t.me/topwar_ru

Information
Dear reader, to leave comments on the publication, you must sign in.
  1. EvgNik
    EvgNik 11 June 2016 06: 04
    +3
    By the way, little is said about Meretskov. And he made a great contribution to the Second World War.
    1. Kenneth
      Kenneth 11 June 2016 23: 50
      0
      Almost the highest losses and a huge number of failed attacks against an enemy inferior to him at times
  2. Ivan Tartugai
    Ivan Tartugai 11 June 2016 06: 49
    +6
    Quote from the article:
    Before the fascist aggression, Soviet military leaders did not have combat experience in conducting modern wars.


    Of course, it was precisely the lack of experience that did not allow, for example, the commander of the ZAPOVA Hero of the Soviet Union, the young forty-five-year-old Army General Pavlov to adequately meet the enemy, to prepare the troops entrusted to him for battle.
    It was due to lack of experience that the young forty-five-year-old Army General Pavlov Pavlov, with almost the entire headquarters of the district, went to the officers' district house to watch the operetta “Wedding in the Robin” a few hours before the war began.
    And when the chief of intelligence of the district repeatedly reported on the threatening situation on the border during the performance, it was precisely because of the lack of experience that the young forty-five-year-old Army General Pavlov watched the performance without stopping, and after the performance did not go to the district headquarters to find out the situation, but rest home, to his wife, to the family. Saturday evening was already a day off, what kind of service is there, what a threatening situation there may be on the border before the weekend.
    This is all from the inexperience of the young forty-five-year-old Army General Pavlov, the all-conquering youth overpowered him.
    1. King, just king
      King, just king 11 June 2016 07: 58
      +1
      The NKVD quickly figured out what was there - the traitor General Pavlov.

      I already wrote that during the war no one was shot from the highest command staff (who led the troops), no one, even this Oktyabrsky rot, with the exception of Pavlov’s headquarters.
      1. AK64
        AK64 11 June 2016 11: 42
        -4
        The NKVD quickly figured out what was there - the traitor General Pavlov.

        Who wrote this?
        Did you write this?

        So - the person who wrote this is the patented bastard.

        If there was a "traitor" there, it was Zhukov.
        And no "NKVD" understood anything: Mehlis, with his characteristic intellect, "took action" - as he could. And Mekhlis only knew how to shoot. Here, on the personal order of Mehlis, Pavlov and the officers of his headquarters fell under the distribution (those who were caught on the spot - and those who were not found - they fought until the end of the war, or to death).

        Well, and who exactly Mehlis set Mr. Pavlova against ...
        Well, and this is not a great secret, everything is clear here.

        But the one who writes about "Pavlov's betrayal" is simply a scoundrel.
        1. Kenneth
          Kenneth 11 June 2016 23: 53
          +2
          And who are you sorry to pull such a Zhukov. Pavlov with his horizons as a divisor was out of place.
          1. AK64
            AK64 12 June 2016 00: 34
            -2
            And who are you sorry to pull such a Zhukov.

            And who are you?



            Pavlov with his horizons as a divisor was out of place.

            Zhukov, with his 3 classes, to Pavlov was like to China on all fours.
            Pavlov had the experience of Spain, and positive experience. And then the experience of the head of the armored command of the Red Army.
            It was Pavlov, who served as deputy head and then head of the ABU, who fought with his forehead punching tanks with anti-ballistic armor.

            But Zhukov ... a hungry and vindictive chair-man
            1. Kenneth
              Kenneth 12 June 2016 16: 49
              0
              It would be better for Pavlov to continue to punch along with the teacher Kozlov. And substitute her at the front of people for slaughter. The front is not a division, not a management and not an audience. And Zhukov, with his determination and eye, is an order of magnitude better than these academics. And in the position of the General Staff, he plowed
              1. AK64
                AK64 12 June 2016 17: 59
                -1
                Slandering the slandered, then killed, and then again, many times slandered Pavlov is certainly easier.

                Yes, and the pluses to catch so much more reliable.
    2. AK64
      AK64 11 June 2016 11: 37
      0
      Of course, it was precisely the lack of experience that did not allow, for example, the commander of the ZAPOVA Hero of the Soviet Union, the young forty-five-year-old Army General Pavlov to adequately meet the enemy, to prepare the troops entrusted to him for battle.

      For your information: Pavlov was "prevented" by Zhukov's "mistake": it is difficult to be "worthy" when you have a deep flanking.

      It was due to lack of experience that the young forty-five-year-old Army General Pavlov Pavlov, with almost the entire headquarters of the district, went to the officers' district house to watch the operetta “Wedding in the Robin” a few hours before the war began.

      But this is already a fact of the so-called lies. This is a slander against Pavlov: people specially checked the repertoires --- well, there was simply no "swabbing" in the repertoire in that particular season! Did not have!

      Pavlov could go anywhere - but not to the "robin wedding".

      In general, it’s clear already that everything you wrote is from the same opera: repetitions of long-standing slander and fantasy.

      I do not comment further, so as not to be angry.
      1. Ivan Tartugai
        Ivan Tartugai 11 June 2016 13: 46
        +5
        Quote from AK64:
        Pavlov could go anywhere - but not to the "robin wedding"


        In June 1941, General Boldin was the first deputy commander of the Western Command General Pavlov, also young then, 1 years old, was not yet fifty years old. From the memoirs of Colonel General Boldin:
        “That Saturday night on the stage of the Minsk House of Officers was walking comedy "Wedding in Malinovka". We laughed sincerely. The resourceful artilleryman Yashka was amusing, Popandopulo caused ironic smiles. Music spread throughout the hall and created a festive atmosphere. ”

        June 21, 1941 Boldin with Pavlov was on operetta "Wedding in Robin", with the commander of the ZAPOVO, sat in the same general box of the House of Officers.

        Quote AK64
        I do not comment further, so as not to be angry.


        No need to get angry, no need to call names. If you think something is wrong, then write, refute, but without insults.
        1. AK64
          AK64 11 June 2016 14: 10
          -4
          In June 1941, General Boldin was the first deputy commander of the Western Command General Pavlov, also young then, 1 years old, was not yet fifty years old. From the memoirs of Colonel General Boldin:
          “On that Saturday evening, the comedy" Wedding in Malinovka "was on the stage of the Minsk House of Officers. We laughed sincerely. The resourceful artilleryman Yashka amused him, Popandopulo evoked ironic smiles. Music spread throughout the hall and created a festive atmosphere. "


          On June 21, 1941, Boldin, along with Pavlov, was on the operetta “The Wedding in the Robin”, and sat with the commander of the ZAPOV in the same general box of the Officers House.


          I lied.
          I made a mistake by the weakness of memory.
          But what does it mean?

          Memoirs are not a "source" at all --- memoirs, bybye, this is a genre of fiction, and nothing more.

          I repeat again:
          (1) allegedly it was a tour of the Moscow Art Theater.
          (2) The Moscow Art Theater repertoire can be found online, including for the 41st year.
          (3) "Weddings" in the repertoire for the 41st year NO. She is simply NOT in the 41st year repertoire. Generally.

          And, I repeat: people fiddled around, burst into it --- there was no "Wedding". That makes all further "testimonies" that Pavlov sat in the theater and ignored everyone - as if ridiculous and unreliable.

          And this already despite the fact that the "theater" could only be on the evening of the 21st (by the way, Saturday), and Pavlov had the rest of the evening, night, and morning ahead.

          In general, this is nonsense, not a "wedding".

          In essence, Pavlov was objectively the only one of the front commanders of June 1941 who could be assessed as "satisfactory." The other two are definitely "Unsatisfactory", and even "very bad".

          In reality, Pavlov was the only one whose level of competence corresponded, more or less, to the task.
          This is an objective fact.

          Everything else is fiction
          1. King, just king
            King, just king 11 June 2016 14: 51
            +2
            Citizen AK64!
            Do not drool, splatter the entire screen of your monitor. What are you screaming like an undercut pig?
            If you think that I, having written that the NKVD quickly dealt with Pavlov, are a bastard and a scoundrel, so write safely that you behave like a prostitute, the Internet allows you not to get into the snout for insults.

            Only now, citizen of AK64, what’s the matter. Do not about Mehlis. There was a decision on the arrest, there was a consequence, there were Pavlov's testimony about if not direct treason, so about sympathy, there was a court, there was a sentence, there was a shooting. Let’s look at the matter - refute the words of Pavlov himself.

            If you want to squeal about Zhukov and so on, insult - scream and insult your health.
            A dog, or rather a mongrel like you - barks - the wind wears ...

            If you want to prove something, write reasonably, with facts, conclusions, without blaming the memoirists for all sins of dementia.

            Let's get the facts. What kind of people were busy, who checked where and by whom it was written ...
            1. AK64
              AK64 11 June 2016 15: 03
              -6
              He brought a scoundrel and a boor in the emergency
            2. AK64
              AK64 11 June 2016 15: 03
              -3
              He brought a scoundrel and a boor in the emergency
            3. King, just king
              King, just king 11 June 2016 15: 14
              -1
              AI-YAI-YAI, CITIZEN "AK64"!
              WHY DO YOU, REDISKA SUCH, BROUGHT ME INTO THE BLACK LIST, Huh?
              YOU ARE AFRAID OF A NORMAL TALK, AND CAN YOU ONLY Squeal and grunt?

              In capital letters, this is for the whole community to pay attention and see what you really are. Nothing, I’ll come in without a login, read it.
              1. King, just king
                King, just king 11 June 2016 15: 31
                0
                Ha! Already brought in two times, so in a hurry.

                Where is the Moscow Art Theater, and where is the operetta, boots AK64?
          2. Kenneth
            Kenneth 11 June 2016 23: 57
            +1
            All is true. Only not the Moscow Art Theater but the central theater of the Red Army. This is a mistake, but it does not change the essence.
            1. AK64
              AK64 12 June 2016 00: 27
              -1
              Only not the Moscow Art Theater but the central theater of the Red Army. This is a mistake, but it does not change the essence.


              Sorry, I forgot which theater.
              But the essence does not change: there was no wedding
  3. Spartanez300
    Spartanez300 11 June 2016 06: 58
    -8
    Of course, in the first months of the war, the purge of 1937 affected, when almost the entire experienced military commanders were mowed down, later yesterday the brigade brigades had to learn and gain experience in the course of the war. Homeland against the aggressors. Don’t say, but the Germans had a great experience of wars in Europe and yet our military leaders in the course of the war outplayed them in all respects for which they honor and glory.
    1. Spartanez300
      Spartanez300 11 June 2016 08: 37
      0
      I would like to ask those who put the cons to me so out of curiosity that my comment is incorrect. And sculpt cons from nothing to do, at least not decently. I have already been cured of this with which I was recently congratulated and wish you the same.
      1. Stas57
        Stas57 11 June 2016 10: 32
        +6
        Quote: Spartanez300
        I would like to ask those who put the cons to me so out of curiosity that my comment is incorrect. And sculpt cons from nothing to do, at least not decently. I have already been cured of this with which I was recently congratulated and wish you the same.

        Well, in the first drawbacks, fear not to go here.
        and secondly, the role of repression is greatly exaggerated.
        phrase 1937 cleaning of the year when almost the entire experienced military commanders were mowed down not true, for this and minus
        1. The comment was deleted.
        2. Spartanez300
          Spartanez300 11 June 2016 11: 00
          -4
          The victims of lawlessness and falsified charges were thousands of commanders and fighters of the Red Army and the Red Army. The main blow of political repressions was directed against the command staff of the highest echelon: deputies of the USSR people's commissar of defense, commanders of the military districts (fleets), their deputies, corps commanders, divisions, brigades. The commanding and commanding staff of directorates and staffs in the corresponding links, the teaching staff of military schools [1] were significantly affected.
          1. Stas57
            Stas57 11 June 2016 11: 35
            +7
            Quote: Spartanez300
            The victims of lawlessness and falsified charges were thousands of commanders and fighters of the Red Army and the Red Army. The main blow of political repressions was directed against the command staff of the highest echelon: deputies of the USSR people's commissar of defense, commanders of the military districts (fleets), their deputies, corps commanders, divisions, brigades. The commanding and commanding staff of directorates and staffs in the corresponding links, the teaching staff of military schools [1] were significantly affected.

            wikipedia?
            point blank I do not see your-
            1937 cleaning of the year when almost the entire experienced military commanders were mowed down
            1. The comment was deleted.
        3. Spartanez300
          Spartanez300 11 June 2016 11: 08
          0
          Here is another opinion for you, if mine is not enough for you, I think these minuses are unfounded and incorrect in which I said "practically the entire command staff": Marshal of the Soviet Union A.M. Vasilevsky believed that the repressions of 1937 played a significant role in the history of the USSR:
          Without the thirty-seventh year, perhaps there would have been no war at all in the forty-first year. In the fact that Hitler decided to start the war in the forty-first year, an important role was played by the assessment of the degree of defeat of the military personnel that we had.
          1. overb
            overb 11 June 2016 11: 23
            -1
            Quote: Spartanez300
            Marshal of the Soviet Union A.M. Vasilevsky believed that the repressions of 1937 played a significant role in the history of the USSR:
            Without the thirty-seventh year, perhaps there would have been no war at all in the forty-first year. In the fact that Hitler decided to start the war in the forty-first year, an important role was played by the assessment of the degree of defeat of military personnel that we had

            For starters, I don’t think that Vasilevsky thought so. He just wrote as he should have written.
            As for 1941, then the Germans were not at all interested in the Red Army. And the USSR did not interest them. What is there and how it goes. They solved their tasks without looking back at all to the east.
            As people in military affairs, in general, savvy, they understood very well that, compared to the level of the baseboard (1914), the army in the USSR, boiling in its own juice, could only degrade to a level below the baseboard. And the names of the personalities in this process did not matter.
            Which, in general, was confirmed. During WWII, the German army advanced east much deeper than during WWI.
          2. Stas57
            Stas57 11 June 2016 11: 36
            +4
            Quote: Spartanez300
            Without the thirty-seventh year, perhaps there would have been no war at all in the forty-first year. In the fact that Hitler decided to start the war in the forty-first year, an important role was played by the assessment of the degree of defeat of the military personnel that we had.

            wikipedia?
            1. Cat man null
              Cat man null 11 June 2016 15: 12
              +2
              Quote: Stas57
              Quote: Spartanez300
              Without the thirty-seventh year, perhaps there would have been no war at all in the forty-first year. In the fact that Hitler decided to start the war in the forty-first year, an important role was played by the assessment of the degree of defeat of the military personnel that we had.

              wikipedia?

              Duc ... clear stump fellow
          3. Colonel
            Colonel 15 June 2016 15: 52
            0
            Quote: Spartanez300
            Without the thirty-seventh year, perhaps there would have been no war at all in the forty-first year

            When did Hitler write the book "My Struggle"? At 37m? Now that more or less real access to historical materials has appeared, it is not convincing to think in terms of Yakovlev and Volkogonov. The spearhead of the repression was directed at Trotsky's comrades-in-arms, and the fact that there were many military men among them was fate. Remember who this character worked in the first years of Soviet power. And it's not a fact that Uborevich (respected in the army at that time) and the other Tukhachevskys would have organized resistance to the Wehrmacht. Yes, they were innocent, probably not a little, but do not burn out Stalin's fifth column ... I recommend V. Karpov "Generalissimo", reading is heavy, but instructive.
        4. Spartanez300
          Spartanez300 11 June 2016 11: 18
          +2
          Since I vowed to put cons, I won’t do this, but I would advise everyone who put cons to read the story first and delve into the commentary. All the best to you.
          1. AK64
            AK64 11 June 2016 11: 49
            0
            Since I vowed to put cons, I won’t do this, but I would advise everyone who put cons to read the story first and delve into the commentary. All the best to you.


            Well, tell us about the "experienced" Yakir.
            Tell about Tukhachevsky's "experience"
            About Blucher's "experience".

            They say to you the Russian language: those that until the 37th came under the distribution - they were exactly the same. And if you consider Yakirov and Gamarniki - it’s much worse.
          2. Spartanez300
            Spartanez300 11 June 2016 14: 26
            0
            These phrases are not general and far complicated, many people still argue on this topic, we just have different opinions on these times, and about the phrase that you didn’t like, you can’t get away from it and these captains and lieutenants are far from unhappy they had to accept the whole burden of responsibility. And I don’t put minuses, even if I don’t like his comment, I just pass by. But putting five cons on such a harmless comment is too much.
      2. Alex
        Alex 11 June 2016 12: 37
        +8
        Quote: Spartanez300
        I would like to ask those who put the cons to me so out of curiosity that my comment is incorrect. And sculpt cons from nothing to do, at least not decently. I have already been cured of this with which I was recently congratulated and wish you the same.

        I didn’t give you a minus, I frankly did not like your comment. First of all, by its frank commitment. Phrase 1937 cleaning of the year when almost the entire experienced military commanders were mowed down is already so worn out by liberals and "truth seekers" that it makes you sore without a desire to refute it. As well as the wringing of hands over the unfortunate captains and lieutenants who were forced to master the most complex military science: Pavlov was not injured in 1937, he had titles, position and experience, and what he did with them and how he applied them is well known.

        And, finally, in the background there is a simple thought: if there were no "bloody tyrant", there would be no catastrophe. The lists of the repressed in the Red Army are known and published, as well as the positions they hold. Check it out, you will be somewhat amazed. And so, speaking in general phrases and drawing round conclusions is not difficult.
        1. Spartanez300
          Spartanez300 11 June 2016 14: 07
          -1
          These phrases are not general and far complex, we just have different opinions at these times. And I don’t put minuses, even if I don’t like his comment, I just pass by.
          1. Alex
            Alex 11 June 2016 14: 40
            +3
            Everyone has the right to their opinion, if it does not offend the feelings of another. Victor, do you have your own point of view on this issue? Great, write an article! I personally read it with great interest and attention. There will be questions - I will ask, there will be objections - I will express. And so this is not a conversation ...

            And at the expense of the cons. To put / not to put - everyone decides for himself. If you are standing "above the fight" - my greetings. Others thus express their attitude to statements (not to the authors, but to their words. Agree, this is not the same thing), although there are just dirty tricks, but is it worth paying attention to them.
          2. Cat man null
            Cat man null 11 June 2016 15: 15
            +2
            Quote: Spartanez300
            These phrases are not common and far complex just we have just different opinions for these times

            Klitschko?

            - long away not complicated, probably?
            - or "different opinions about these times"
            - or "different views for these times "(IMHO, it's better not to say so)

            This can be understood "not only by everyone, very few people can do it" laughing
            1. The comment was deleted.
              1. Cat man null
                Cat man null 11 June 2016 16: 31
                +2
                Quote: Spartanez300
                am

                Kol-lega ... write informatively and competently, and people will pull you ... You, IMHO, are mainly engaged in collecting pluses.

                Well, too ... occupation laughing
                1. Spartanez300
                  Spartanez300 11 June 2016 16: 46
                  -5
                  I haven’t been a colleague, and not when, I think it’s too shameful, and on this site everyone is free to write who thinks and not for you to evaluate it. Take care of your efficiency better.
                  1. Cat man null
                    Cat man null 12 June 2016 12: 00
                    +1
                    Quote: Spartanez300
                    Take care of your efficiency better

                    - with efficiency everything is fine. But with KPI (KPI, Key Performance Indicator) there are still problems, yes ...
                2. Spartanez300
                  Spartanez300 11 June 2016 16: 57
                  -1
                  I’m ending communication with you, because there are too many negative emotions from him and I’m blacklisting you forever in order to rid myself of your comments in which you only insult and insult everyone (I read your comments out of curiosity), goodbye I wish you all the best.
                3. Stas57
                  Stas57 11 June 2016 21: 33
                  +2
                  Spartanez300

                  We will remain in our opinion anyway, congratulations to you all my cons your merit. I wish you the same in the future.

                  some kind of infancy is direct, insults, minus signs and a black list. as if it were me who was guilty of your stupidity.
                  some kind of kindergarten, I sobbed straight from resentment and universal injustice!
                  1. Cat man null
                    Cat man null 11 June 2016 21: 38
                    +1
                    Quote: Stas57
                    Quote: Spartanez300
                    We will remain in our opinion anyway, congratulations to you all my cons your merit. I wish you the same in the future

                    some kind of infancy is direct, insults, minus signs and a black list. as if it were me who was guilty of your stupidity.
                    some kind of kindergarten, I sobbed straight from resentment and universal injustice!

                    I, hike, guessed the comment above. And I, too, now have this miracle in emergency situations.

                    Well, not his first laughing
        2. Stas157
          Stas157 13 June 2016 10: 51
          +2
          Quote: Alex
          And, finally, in the background there is a simple thought: if there were no "bloody tyrant", there would be no catastrophe.

          It is clear that Germany did not attack the USSR because of a bloody tyrant, but there were quite serious geopolitical alignments, including competition between the ideas of Nazism and the ideas of communism.
          If we compare the Soviet and German general staff, then, of course, at first German military thought was higher. She relied on a rich continuity and traditions, the carriers of which were German generals (blue bone, educated nobles, intellectuals) who had the experience of World War I, in high ranks. Our General Staff did not have all this; all military traditions and illustrious generals were predominantly white. Therefore, I had to learn during the war itself, and a lot of things from the Germans. It seems to me that the main merit in the fact that we ultimately outplayed the Germans belongs to Vasilevsky and Stalin. For some reason they forget Stalin, although it was precisely this man who directed and controlled everything! It was he who chose and approved the later become generals of those generals, about whom everyone here mentioned.
    2. AK64
      AK64 11 June 2016 11: 43
      -2
      of course, in the first months of the war, the purge of 1937 affected, when almost the entire experimental composition of the military leaders was mowed down; later on, the brigade commanders had to learn and gain experience in the course of the war.


      Those who were "mowed" in the 37th were EXACTLY the same.
      There were no "experienced" ones in '37. What is Tukhachevsky's "experience"? Sitting in captivity? Well, a useful experience, he could of course be useful.
      1. The comment was deleted.
      2. Spartanez300
        Spartanez300 11 June 2016 19: 16
        -2
        Their experience was in wars: In the civil war, in the battles of Khalkhin Gol, in the Finnish war, the experience was not small, so that in the subsequent war it would not be so bloodshed. Honestly, I myself am not happy that I wrote this comment. I look and you have been instructed in the minuses, but you don’t be offended by them because of their ignorance and the fact that the teachers didn’t teach them at one time and they didn’t read it, in our time it’s not new.
        1. AK64
          AK64 11 June 2016 20: 13
          -1
          You will be surprised, but the experience of Civil is just rather bad than good. It was a WRONG experience.

          Tukhachevsky ran into the Polish army (the Poles had rubbish, but nevertheless, more or less "European") --- and the result.
          1. Alex
            Alex 11 June 2016 21: 28
            +5
            Quote: AK64
            What is Tukhachevsky's "experience"?

            Quote: Spartanez300
            Their experience was in wars: in the civil war, in the battles of Khalkhin Gol, in the Finnish War,
            Mr. Comrade Tukhachevsky did not fight either in the Finnish War or in the Khalkin-Gol, as he was shot by that time.

            Quote: AK64
            Tukhachevsky ran into the Polish army (the Poles had rubbish, but nevertheless, more or less "European") --- and the result.
            The point is not in the "European" character of the Polish army, but in the fact that Tukhachevsky, in principle, is not a commander, he did not have this level of education, nor did he have experience. But the worst thing is that he didn't want all this. He jumped upstairs thanks to the demagogy and protégé of Trotsky, but all that he managed to acquire was the Napoleon complex, and (which is much worse) - the unrecognized Napoleon. So he showed himself where a great mind is not required: in punishers.
            1. Cat man null
              Cat man null 12 June 2016 12: 02
              +1
              Quote: Alex
              Mr. Comrade Tukhachevsky did not fight either in the Finnish War or in Khalkin-Gol, since he was shot by that time

              good
  4. parusnik
    parusnik 11 June 2016 07: 49
    0
    Actually minus the article for what ...?
    1. Alex
      Alex 11 June 2016 12: 44
      +4
      Quote: parusnik
      Actually minus the article for what ...?

      IMHO, for superficiality. Personally, I didn’t put a minus (the person still wrote an article containing some interesting facts for me personally), but I also did not experience delight at the plus level. After the first lines I tuned in to a more thoughtful analysis of the comparison of the military schools of the Wehrmacht and the Red Army, and received a simple listing of the facts from fairly well-known sources. For a school essay is quite suitable, but for this site, IMHO, is small. However, everyone started from something, that's why I wish the author success in this field.
  5. Ivan Tartugai
    Ivan Tartugai 11 June 2016 07: 54
    +4
    Quote from the article:
    “The Soviet commanders made full use of the advantages of youth: the ability to quickly acquire professional knowledge, working ability, the ability to immediately respond to changing situations and find innovative solutions, accumulate the enemy’s experience and counter innovative options for him.”

    Young generals and marshals, namely the young people's commissar of defense Timoshenko, 46 ​​years old, the young chief of staff, Zhukov, 45 years old, the young commanders Korobkov, 45 years old, Pavlov-45, Kochanov-40 years old, Ponedelin-48 years old, Kopec-33 years old, Kirponos- 49 years and many others have completely failed the initial period of the war. Neither professional knowledge, nor working ability, nor the ability to immediately respond to a changing situation, nor the ability to find innovative solutions helped them.
    I had to replace the young People’s Commissar of Defense, Timoshenko, 46 ​​years old, with a pensioner Stalin IV-63 years old, and the young, health-boosting chief of staff Zhukov, 45 years old, to replace a pensioner and sick Shaposhnikov BM-59 years old.
  6. Ivan Tartugai
    Ivan Tartugai 11 June 2016 08: 34
    +4
    Quote from the article:
    “Zhukov had the gift of foreseeing the enemy’s intentions, the ability to penetrate into the essence of the current situation and find effective solutions and methods of action in accordance with the prevailing conditions.”


    From an interview with Zhukov Simonov about the command and staff game, which took place in December 1940:
    "... taking real initial data and enemy forces - Germans, I, commanding the "blue" (those. the Wehrmacht), developed operations precisely in those areas in which the Germans later developed. Hit my main blows there where did they then apply them. Groupings were like this how then they developed during the war. The configuration of our borders, the terrain, the situation - everything prompted me just such decisions, which they then prompted to the Germans. "
    True, when the command-staff game ended, Zhukov somehow forgot all this, everything flew out of his head after all, the young one was only forty-five years old, is this the age for the headquarters of the Red Army.
    And being at the posts of the commander of the KOVO, and then the chief of staff of the Red Army did the opposite. Seeing the lack of experience of modern warfare among the young forty-five-year-old army general affected. In his youth, the forty-five-year-old commander, and then the chief of staff of the Red Army, unfortunately did not analyze the experience of Wehrmacht operations in Europe in 1939-1941. Well, what can you do - an all-conquering youth defeated the general.
    1. AK64
      AK64 11 June 2016 12: 10
      -4
      Seeing the lack of experience of modern warfare among the young forty-five-year-old army general affected.


      He was not only young - he was also completely illiterate: he knew how to read (thank God at least for this, he taught non-commissioned officers in the tsar’s school), but he practically did not know how to write.

      Chief of General Staff, yeah.
    2. Rust0626
      Rust0626 11 June 2016 20: 31
      +2
      True, when the command-staff game ended, Zhukov somehow forgot all this, everything flew out of his head after all, the young one was only forty-five years old, is this the age for the headquarters of the Red Army.
      And being at the posts of the commander of the KOVO, and then the chief of staff of the Red Army did the opposite.


      Do not get carried away strongly by Suvorov, you need to filter it 7 times.
      1. Alex
        Alex 11 June 2016 21: 33
        +4
        Quote: Rust0626
        Do not get carried away strongly by Suvorov, you need to filter it 7 times.
        Yes, Suvorov is on the side here, it's all written in his memoirs. With taste and details, so that no one doubts who the genius is there, and who is so, went for a walk. And his activities as Chief of the General Staff are also described in memoirs with the same degree of brilliance. Moreover, it seems that in these two parts there are two completely different Zhukovs: one is a bold, decisive, unconventionally thinking, skilled commander; the other is a mossy apparatchik, afraid to say a word against the people's commissar and general secretary, dejectedly duplicating their stupid orders and secretly suffering to tears about the future tragic fate of Soviet soldiers. And so it is throughout the book: how not to twist, but he is always right, and the rest - either not, or not at all.
      2. Ivan Tartugai
        Ivan Tartugai 12 June 2016 11: 15
        +1
        Quote: Rust0626
        Do not get carried away strongly by Suvorov, you need to filter it 7 times.


        Yes, Suvorov is not in business. The genius himself personally gave an interview to Simonov, he himself said how cleverly he foresaw the actions of the Wehrmacht in the initial period of the war back in December 1940, i.e. six months before the war. No one pulled the language of the Marshal.
        1. AK64
          AK64 12 June 2016 11: 40
          0
          Yes, Suvorov is not in business. The genius himself personally gave an interview to Simonov, he himself said how cleverly he foresaw the actions of the Wehrmacht in the initial period of the war back in December 1940, i.e. six months before the war. No one pulled the language of the Marshal.


          Yes, he said this to himself in his own "memoirs" ...
          Nasty was a little man. Compared to him, everyone else is PEOPLE
  7. Spartanez300
    Spartanez300 11 June 2016 08: 40
    -2
    Quote: parusnik
    Actually minus the article for what ...?

    You're talking about whose comment.
  8. moskowit
    moskowit 11 June 2016 08: 55
    +1
    It turns out that the USSR leadership’s policy was right to rejuvenate the personnel of the command staff of the Red Army ...
  9. overb
    overb 11 June 2016 09: 49
    0
    Quote: Victor Saprykov
    Among 15, the leading German military leaders of 13 were Field Marshal Generals: F. von Bock, V. von Brauchitsch, V. Keitel, E. von Kleist, G. von Kluge, G. von Kühler, V. von Leeb, V. List, E von Manstein, W. Model, F. Paulus, W. von Reichenau, G. von Rundstedt; one is Colonel General G. Guderian; one is General-Admiral G. von Friedeburg. With the exception of Friedeburg, each of them was in 50 years, seven began a war against the USSR at the age of 60 and older. Rundstedt, commander of Army Group South, turned 66; Leeb, commander of Army Group North, is 65 years; Bock, Commander of Army Group Center, 61 Year; as much to Liszt, commander of Army Group "A" operating in the Caucasus.
    Each of one and a half dozen representatives of the Soviet senior commanders has not turned 50 years. Nine of them during the war years were the marshals of the Soviet Union: A. M. Vasilevsky, L. A. Govorov, G. K. Zhukov, I. S. Konev, R. Ya. Malinovsky, K. A. Meretskov, K. K. Rokossovsky, S. K. Timoshenko, F. I. Tolbukhin. Five had the rank of general of the army: A. I. Antonov, I. Kh. Bagramyan, F. I. Golikov, A. I. Eremenko, I. D. Chernyakhovsky and one - N. G. Kuznetsov - admiral of the fleet. The oldest - 49-year-old Eremenko was the deputy, and then the commander of a number of fronts. 47-year-old Tolbukhin - the same. 46-year-old Vasilevsky - First Deputy, after some time, the Chief of General Staff, then the commander of the front. Marshals Govorov, Konev and Meretskov started the war in 44, Zhukov and Rokossovsky - in 45. Chernyakhovsky was 35, Kuznetsov was 37 years old.

    I fully support the author’s thought. Senile brain degradation is not a myth. And it begins, before old age itself comes. Increasing gradually.
    True, and 35-37 years old, like Chernyakhovsky and Kuznetsov, this is an obvious bust. There was nothing good about it and no. Everything is good in moderation.
    Quote: Victor Saprykov
    Soviet military leaders graduated from various military academies after the First World War and the Civil War, in 1927-1937. Two of them, Zhukov and Rokossovsky, did not have an academic education. But thanks to their independent permanent work and exceptional abilities, they thoroughly mastered military theory.

    This simply confirms the idea that the "Soviet military education" of those times was just "crusts" that were needed for a career. Like a party card. We can clearly see the result in 1941 and 1942.
    Quote: Victor Saprykov
    No serious conclusions were made then.

    Who would make them? In order to draw the right conclusions, in any field, one must have a solid education. All of them had only Soviet education (the tsarist’s was no better to be understood). The best in the world, of course, as usual. But almost completely useless.
    Quote: Victor Saprykov
    J. Goebbels March 18, 1945 .... The Führer completely agreed with me: our generals are too old and too spent

    Late.
    1. Stas157
      Stas157 13 June 2016 11: 56
      +2
      Quote: overb
      I fully support the author’s thought. Senile brain degradation is not a myth. And it begins, before old age itself comes. Increasing gradually.

      The military geniuses of Kutuzov and Suvorov refute your statement!
      1. overb
        overb 13 June 2016 13: 08
        0
        Quote: Stas157
        The military geniuses of Kutuzov and Suvorov refute your statement!

        But doctors confirm. This is more important.
        Do not confuse the wars of the 18-19 centuries and the wars of the 20th century. Suvorov and Kutuzov did not have to relearn, the nature of the wars in their time did not change much. And the commanders of the 1st MV (and even the warlords, as was customary in the Red Army) were required to rebuild and retrain under the conditions of the 2nd MV. In old age it is more difficult than in youth.
      2. The comment was deleted.
  10. The comment was deleted.
  11. The comment was deleted.
  12. Donlomakin
    Donlomakin 11 June 2016 11: 01
    0
    Before the fascist aggression, Soviet military leaders did not have combat experience in conducting modern wars.
    But what about the war in Spain, Japan, and Finland? The Wehrmacht did not have much more experience; just look at how much time it took for the occupation of European countries.
    1. AK64
      AK64 11 June 2016 11: 58
      +1
      But what about the war in Spain, Japan, and Finland? The Wehrmacht did not have much more experience; just look at how much time it took for the occupation of European countries.


      Pretty funny ...

      The "experience" of Spain is the maximum experience of a dozen commanders.
      By the way, they took into account to a large extent, it’s strange: for example, it was on the basis of the Spanish experience that Pavlov managed to reach out to the authorities about the need for ballistic booking of tans. Otherwise, the BT would have been a formidable tank in the 41st.
      (Yes, yes, this is the "traitor" Pavlov's merit in many respects - who is being watered with mud here by the local people)

      Mongolian honey again is the experience of maximum corps operation.

      The experience of Finland is the experience of war against whom? Who are the Finns? But nevertheless, to a large extent, it was taken into account --- a huge reform of the army was carried out on the basis of Finnish experience.

      Here are just a real experience of the Red Army operation in none of these wars received.

      And the Wehrmacht has gained such experience all the way up and down at all levels.
      1. Stas57
        Stas57 11 June 2016 12: 28
        0
        Quote: AK64
        And the Wehrmacht has gained such experience all the way up and down at all levels.

        namely, Finnish 760 578 at its peak
        French company 3 350 000
  13. Cartalon
    Cartalon 11 June 2016 11: 33
    +6
    Very weak article, a set of cliches and all.
  14. AK64
    AK64 11 June 2016 11: 54
    -3
    They were not only young, they were also uneducated: three classes on average, plus a couple of corridors.

    So all power is in ignorance.

    In general, learning is evil.
    (Take all these books, and even these scientists - and burn them)
  15. The comment was deleted.
  16. Andrey VOV
    Andrey VOV 12 June 2016 13: 17
    0
    Quote: Spartanez300
    Their experience was in wars: In the civil war, in the battles of Khalkhin Gol, in the Finnish war, the experience was not small, so that in the subsequent war it would not be so bloodshed. Honestly, I myself am not happy that I wrote this comment. I look and you have been instructed in the minuses, but you don’t be offended by them because of their ignorance and the fact that the teachers didn’t teach them at one time and they didn’t read it, in our time it’s not new.

    Wake up comparing the battles of the Civil War and the Great Patriotic War .. the sky and the earth!
  17. sibiryak10
    sibiryak10 14 June 2016 11: 28
    0
    The article is somehow frivolous. They took a quote from Goebbels and piled up a whole "analytics" around it. It is known that Hitler blamed his "mediocre" generals for the defeats, and Goebbels thought in unison with his Fuhrer.
    In the 41st and 42nd years, our military commanders learned to fight with the Germans, and not only the commanders of the fronts, but also all the commanders of the spacecraft.
  18. BAI
    BAI 16 January 2017 14: 49
    0
    Of course, the highest composition of the Red Army will not receive an unambiguous assessment due to the large losses of the Red Army. Opinions (with foam at the mouth) will be diametrically opposed.