Military Review

Loyal batyr

80
Mongolian army values ​​Russian weapons

The only real guarantor of the independence of Mongolia is Russia. This, however, does not mean that they need us more than they need us.

At the beginning of the 90s (under Foreign Minister Kozyrev), Moscow tried to build a foreign policy mirroring to the Soviet, reversing allies and opponents. However, by the middle of the 90-x illusions about the West began to pass, after which Russia began to at least partially restore the old ties. This possibility was preserved because they were strong enough: a significant part of the ruling elite of friendly countries studied in the USSR and knew Russian, there was a close economic and, no less important, military cooperation. The Allied armies were built according to Soviet models, equipped with our weapons, it was extremely difficult and expensive for them to switch to the Western system and equipment, even if they had the desire and opportunity.

East and South Asia has traditionally been the second most important direction of domestic foreign policy after Europe (although it gradually began to move the Middle East to third place since 60). Mongolia, Vietnam, India and the DPRK were traditionally our most important allies in this region. The extremely specific situation on the Korean Peninsula and the role of Russia in this conflict is known to readers (“Democratic Pyongyang vs. Totalitarian Seoul”). Let's talk about our oldest ally in Asia.

Created from chaos


Mongolia in its current form gained independence exclusively thanks to Russia. More precisely, it separated from China in 1911, taking advantage of the chaos of the Xinhai Revolution. But she managed to maintain independence only thanks to support - first Russian, and then Soviet. It was the USSR, which achieved official recognition of Mongolia from Beijing. China's attitude to this fact is now traditional for the country: it recognizes previously concluded agreements until it becomes possible to break them. In all Chinese historical publications say that Mongolia gained independence illegally, and the USSR "knocked out" the recognition of this country, taking advantage of China's weakness. This is the official uncontested position, which means that as soon as Beijing has a chance, Mongolia will immediately say goodbye to independence. With a huge territory (about 1,56 million square kilometers, 18th place in the world) with a very small population (just over 3 million people, 138th place), this country is deprived of the opportunity to defend itself against Chinese aggression. It is only prevented by Russia by the very fact of its existence.

In the post-Soviet period, Mongolia, which also abandoned socialism and switched to a democratic form of government and a market economy, actively developed relations with the West, and most of its armed forces went through various UN peacekeeping operations, where Mongolian soldiers and officers proved themselves quite well. Nevertheless, this does not provide them with the opportunity to resist the PLA (the number of which in peacetime is slightly less than the entire population of Mongolia), and the West cannot really be the guarantor of the country's independence. Firstly, for purely geographical reasons: it has no access to the sea and borders only with Russia and China. Accordingly, for foreign troops to be on the territory of Mongolia, you need at least the consent of Russia. Despite the holes in our air defense system in the Far East, "without prior arrangement" through our airspace, even the Americans will not risk flying. Secondly, and much more importantly, the United States, not to mention Europe and Japan, will not, under any circumstances, go to war with China for the sake of saving Mongolia.

Understanding of this in recent years, apparently, appeared in Ulan Bator. And then Moscow finally remembered the existence of a country where, until recently, the entire population knew Russian. And decided to give her some attention, including in the military sphere and at least a little update the hopelessly outdated equipment.

In the arsenal - spare parts

The ground forces of Mongolia have the 016 th motorized rifle brigade, the 017 th building regiment, the 150 th peacekeeping battalion (the 330 th will be formed), the 084 special forces battalion. There are also up to six regiments of incomplete low-readiness personnel.

Loyal batyrTank the fleet numbers 200–250 T-54, 170–250 T-55, up to 100 T-62, 58 T-72A. In service with 120 BRDM-2, from 310 to 400 BMP-1, 20 BTR-80, 50 BTR-70, 50 BTR-60, up to 200 BTR-40, up to 50 BTR-152. Artillery includes up to 600 towed guns (up to 20 A-19, 50 D-30, 100 M-30, 50 M-46, 25 D-1), at least 140 mortars, up to 130 ML-21 BM-200s. Anti-tank weapons: 44 D-250, 48 D-25, 3 BS-24, 12 MT-XNUMX.

Almost all the equipment of the ground forces is extremely outdated, a significant part of it is not capable, therefore the figures cited are largely arbitrary. Some exceptions are the T-72 tanks, as well as the BTR-70 and BTR-80 tanks, delivered in recent years from the Russian Armed Forces.

The Mongolian Air Force does not currently have any combat or auxiliary aircraft. Previously in service 12 MiG-21PFM and 2 MiG-21UM were transferred to storage and, apparently, will be sold abroad for spare parts. Accordingly, the entire strike power of the Mongolian Air Force is up to 11 Mi-24 combat helicopters. In addition, there are transport: up to 8 Mi-8, 2 Mi-17. An-24 and An-26 aircraft transferred to the civilian aviation.

Ground defense consists of two divisions of the C-75 and the C-125М, 250 anti-aircraft missiles "Strela-2", and 75 anti-aircraft guns ZU-23 and C-60.

It is significant that, despite participating in the Afghan and Iraq campaigns, Mongolia acquired only a certain amount of equipment and equipment from the US. Mongol weapons are still one hundred percent Russian. And conditionally, new equipment has been acquired recently from us. Since 2008, the annual joint military exercises of Selenga have resumed, which take place alternately in Mongolia and in Buryatia ethnically related to it, and their scale is growing.

Territory of love

The vast territory of Mongolia occupies the most important strategic position between Russia and China. In the event of war, the party that controls Mongolia will win. That is why the relationship with her is critically important for both. The preservation of neutrality “between two fires” by Mongolia seems completely unrealistic.

In general, it should be clearly understood that there are two countries that Russia is obliged to defend against China as well as itself, Kazakhstan and Mongolia. Having passed them, we get a geopolitical mat from Beijing, our position in this case becomes hopeless, the territory east of the Urals is lost automatically. It is not obvious that the Kremlin understands this fact, although in recent years some signs of realism towards China have begun to appear. So far, alas, too weak.
Author:
Originator:
http://vpk-news.ru/articles/30956
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  1. Humpty
    Humpty 11 June 2016 05: 48
    +18
    "In general, we must clearly understand that there are two countries that Russia is obliged to protect from China as well as itself - Kazakhstan and Mongolia. Having surrendered them, we get a geopolitical swearing from Beijing, our position in this case becomes hopeless."

    Obviously it is. But the theoretically possible (on occasion) Chinese takeover of Tajikistan and Kyrgyzstan puts Russia in such a check that a complete reformatting of the CA map with the participation of Russia and unknown prospects is inevitable. In the medium term, this is fantastic. China has been working for a long time. Either Taklamakan liquidates by capillary irrigation, then he tries to grow the taiga in Tibet.
    1. russkiy redut
      russkiy redut 11 June 2016 14: 36
      +3
      Our war with China is beneficial only to America. I hope everyone understands this.
    2. Siberian 1975
      Siberian 1975 11 June 2016 15: 47
      +6
      With the takeover of Tajikistan and Uzbekistan, China will receive not one, but three Uyghur AOs, does it need it?
      1. Mikhail Matyugin
        Mikhail Matyugin 23 June 2016 19: 12
        +1
        Quote: Sibiryak 1975
        With the takeover of Tajikistan and Uzbekistan, China will receive not one, but three Uyghur AOs, does it need it?

        China has thousands of years of experience absorbing other nations, do you think they will not cope?
    3. Very old
      Very old 11 June 2016 20: 37
      +1
      He himself realized that he blurted out?
    4. Max_Bauder
      Max_Bauder 14 June 2016 08: 38
      0
      In general, you need to clearly understand that there are two countries that Russia is obligated to protect from China as well as itself, Kazakhstan and Mongolia. Having handed them over, we get a geopolitical mat from Beijing, our situation in this case becomes hopeless, the territory east of the Urals is automatically lost.


      such a scenario is quite real, take a look

  2. Razvedka_Boem
    Razvedka_Boem 11 June 2016 05: 49
    .
    This author seems to be from the category - "everything is gone".
    1. xan
      xan 11 June 2016 12: 06
      +4
      Quote: Razvedka_Boem
      This author seems to be from the category - "everything is gone".

      I also liked the nonsense about automatic loss to the Urals. One thing is true, under no circumstances should Mongolia and Kazakhstan be merged; an attack on them is considered an attack on Russia. If they merge themselves to China, then this is certainly more difficult, but even so I do not see a hopeless situation, no Siberia and the Far East shines for China in any situation. We’ll close the border, we’ll accept our own, that's all.
      1. Theline
        Theline 11 June 2016 14: 33
        +8
        In the event of a war, Kazakhstan and Mongolia could become the PLA bridgehead, while the Russian Federation has virtually no military infrastructure beyond the Urals, compared with its European part.
        The author is about this.
        1. Igor V
          Igor V 11 June 2016 16: 50
          +7
          Not from the Urals, of course, but from Baikal to the east, all territories are cut off. The BAM was built precisely to prevent this from happening. The author wrote everything correctly. In the second half of the 60s, on the border of China with Mongolia, there were formations with a total strength of up to 600 thousand people with a training division, where 60 thousand enrolled personnel were trained. According to our General Staff, the number of troops is unlimited. The USSR at that time could only help Mongolia restore the army and introduce part of the 39th army, which did not ensure the country's defense, but more could not be done, there were enough other tasks. Incidentally, the confrontation between China and Mongolia was a direct consequence of Khrushchev's "forward-looking" policy.
        2. Razvedka_Boem
          Razvedka_Boem 11 June 2016 21: 01
          0
          In the event of a war with China, nuclear weapons will be used. There will be nothing to fight.
          Therefore, there will be no direct military clash with China, at least in the coming decades.
          I will repeat once again - the author of this article is from the category "everything is lost".
      2. Razvedka_Boem
        Razvedka_Boem 11 June 2016 17: 41
        -3
        Natsik are strong in Kazakhstan, and what will happen after Nazarbayev’s departure is hard to say. The tone of the article is pessimistic. That is, the author does not believe in consensus, or deliberately escalates. Anyway. you need to understand that this is a point of view, just a single person. And his words are by no means the ultimate truth.
        There is always a way out, there are always ways to overcome differences. The main thing is that both parties are aware of this.
      3. Very old
        Very old 11 June 2016 20: 40
        +2
        And I remember Damansky
        1. Amurets
          Amurets 12 June 2016 00: 09
          +1
          Quote: Very old
          And I remember Damansky

          And at that time I lived in Blagoveshchensk, opposite the Chinese Hei-He. Yes, I still live. In May 1969 I was taken into the army and I ended up in the ZRV. I served in Komsomolsk. I had a quarantine for two weeks. May 12 was called up; May 16 arrived at part; May 30, taking the oath and to the point in the division. 31 May receiving weapons and until June 16 we did not let go of it. Until the "Meeting of Communist and Workers' Parties" ended, it seems June 11, 1969 and the "Silent seething" at the border did not subside. there were troops along the entire Sino-Soviet border.
      4. Razvedka_Boem
        Razvedka_Boem 11 June 2016 21: 09
        -1
        Big politics is not based on emotions, but on the interests of the state. And the head of state, the real head, will proceed from this.
        Economics, demography (in Russia, by the way is very bad), many factors that are simply not recognized from the level of the average person.
        Kazakhstan will not be merged, but if necessary, they will give Mongolia. This allows you to win at least 5-7 years.
        But I think it will not come to this, since China has rivals - India, for example. In general, not everything is as sad as the author of the article is trying to imagine.
  3. EvgNik
    EvgNik 11 June 2016 06: 17
    +1
    Kazakhstan and Mongolia. Having handed them over, we get a geopolitical mat from Beijing, our situation in this case becomes hopeless, the territory east of the Urals is automatically lost. It is not obvious that the Kremlin understands this fact, although in recent years some signs of realism towards China have begun to appear. So far, alas, too weak.

    Recently, when a turn toward China (our policy) was outlined, a war with China just became possible. And this, yes, the loss of Siberia. Although sweet there the Chinese will not have to. There will be a guerrilla war, to destroy. And Siberia is big. The states of the Middle East are another topic. Will they resist? big question.
    And the title of the article is either ironic or untrue.
    1. cap
      cap 11 June 2016 09: 56
      +3
      Quote: EvgNik
      Recently, when a turn toward China (our policy) was outlined, a war with China just became possible. And this, yes, the loss of Siberia. Although sweet there the Chinese will not have to. There will be a guerrilla war, to destroy. And Siberia is big. The states of the Middle East are another topic. Will they resist? big question.
      And the title of the article is either ironic or untrue.


      I agree with you completely. The latest events in Kazakhstan are like a pen test on the planned map of the East. Whose version is it?
      There are too many interested people.
      1. novobranets
        novobranets 11 June 2016 12: 31
        +3
        Quote: cap
        .Latest events in Kazakhstan is like a feather test
        From 7 minutes.
        1. The comment was deleted.
  4. semirek
    semirek 11 June 2016 06: 42
    +5
    Everything is clear with Mongolia, there are not rare articles about it in VO, but I would not increase fears with China - war is excluded in principle (you just need to think with your head, why?). Whom did China or China defeat in its history, this nation not a nation of warriors, Chinese farmers, and they usually live where rice grows (note, in Siberia this warm-loving culture does not grow). China at one time did not dare to start a full-fledged conflict with the USSR after provocations in Damansky and Zhalanashkol, why ? Yes, everything is simple - they explained to the descendants of Confucius, another step and a new Hiroshima is provided for you.
    No one will allow China to dominate "our" Asia - not for the Chinese, our ancestors conquered and mastered it. China is not such a superpower, as we are portrayed, just a country trying to somehow survive in the hard East Asian world.
    1. Monarchist
      Monarchist 11 June 2016 07: 41
      +5
      God forbid, but the so-called. The PLA is well-armed, the Chinese have developed industry. Although I hope for peace and reason between China and Russia.
      1. sherp2015
        sherp2015 11 June 2016 11: 48
        +3
        Quote: Monarchist
        God forbid, but the so-called. The PLA is well-armed, the Chinese have developed industry. Although I hope for peace and reason between China and Russia.


        Hope, as they say, on God, and he ...
        China cannot be trusted. The policy of a wise monkey from a mountain watching the fight between a lion (USA) and a bear (Russia) with the pursuit of the survivor is precisely what this testifies to
    2. HERMES
      HERMES 11 June 2016 08: 16
      +7
      Quote: semirek
      No one will allow China to dominate "our" Asia - not for the Chinese, our ancestors conquered and mastered it. China is not such a superpower, as we are portrayed, just a country trying to somehow survive in the hard East Asian world.


      You underestimate China ... the days of heroically courageous battles have passed ... today, any brave men will be buried in the ground by artillery and aircraft, and then tanks will pass through them. Today, a total war will be waged by brains and equipment, rather than fighting spirit. And the advantage passes quietly to China.

      Quote: semirek
      The PRC at one time did not dare to start a full-fledged conflict with the USSR after provocations in Damansky and Zhalanashkol, why? Yes, everything is simple - they explained to the descendants of Confucius, another step and a new Hiroshima was provided for you.


      And today the only guarantee of Russia against an attack by the PRC is the Strategic Missile Forces.
      1. Amurets
        Amurets 11 June 2016 08: 39
        +2
        Quote: HERMES
        And today the only guarantee of Russia against an attack by the PRC is the Strategic Missile Forces.

        That, apparently, is why the PRC is holding the troops of its 2nd Artillery Corps near the borders of Russia, outside the hundred-kilometer demarcation line on withdrawing troops from the border between the Russian Federation and the PRC.
        1. Reptiloid
          Reptiloid 14 June 2016 06: 14
          0
          This is how they show their attitude.
          I really liked the article, as well as comments, with a value. It is a pity that I missed it before.
      2. sherp2015
        sherp2015 11 June 2016 13: 30
        +1
        Quote: HERMES

        You underestimate China ... the days of heroically courageous battles have passed ... today, any brave men will be buried in the ground by artillery and aircraft, and then tanks will pass through them. Today, a total war will be waged by brains and equipment, rather than fighting spirit. And the advantage passes quietly to China.

        Quote: semirek
        The PRC at one time did not dare to start a full-fledged conflict with the USSR after provocations in Damansky and Zhalanashkol, why? Yes, everything is simple - they explained to the descendants of Confucius, another step and a new Hiroshima was provided for you.

        And today the only guarantee of Russia against an attack by the PRC is the Strategic Missile Forces.


        Hermes +++
    3. Amurets
      Amurets 11 June 2016 08: 20
      +3
      Quote: semirek
      Whom China or the PRC defeated in its history is not a nation of warriors, the Chinese are farmers, and they usually live where rice grows (note, this warm-loving culture does not grow in Siberia).

      I’ll try to correct your two minor mistakes. China does not win by war, China wins assimilation. You know the number of Chinese in the world. And the second: you are right in Siberia rice does not grow, but for some reason grows on the right bank of the Amur River, near Blagoveshchensk, in the province Kheylujyan and in Primorye, on the Khankai lowland .http: //dic.academic.ru/dic.nsf/bse/123930/%D0%9F%D1%80%D0%B8%D1%85%D
      0% B0% D0% BD% D0% BA% D0% B0% D0% B9% D1% 81% D0% BA% D0% B0% D1% 8F And in addition, the Chinese use kaolin (sorghum) and chumizu (black) rice) http://hnb.com.ua/articles/s-zdorovie-chumiza-3489
      1. novobranets
        novobranets 11 June 2016 16: 50
        +3
        Quote: Amurets
        China wins assimilation.

        Hi, Nikolai. hi That's what I told you about. The tactics of the Chinese are the gradual introduction, the organization of various enterprises (initially not large), economic operations, the purchase of shares of leading enterprises, the development and increase of diasporas, etc. They can spend a hundred years on it, maybe more, they have nowhere to rush, the Chinese are patient. But just so, and not by direct military invasion, they can squeeze the territory. With China, you need to be very careful, calculate every step.
        By the way, China did not completely abandon territorial claims on some lands of the former USSR.
        1. Amurets
          Amurets 11 June 2016 23: 54
          +2
          Quote: novobranets
          By the way, China did not completely abandon territorial claims on some lands of the former USSR.

          Hello! Vyacheslav. I do not argue. As a litmus test, the attitude of the People's Republic of China towards the "Manchurian wedge" in the Amur region will manifest itself. Yesterday I wrote about this in the comments to the post about the sale of our mines to China. It's just that the attitude of the northern and southern Chinese towards this is different ...
          1. Talgat
            Talgat 12 June 2016 17: 23
            +2
            I agree that the strategy of China is not war and aggression (as in the West and the United States), but soft creeping expansion - loans - investments - then a joint venture - land lease - the creation of a Chinese enterprise - the introduction of culture, etc.

            Especially. that China is now a strategic partner and almost an ally of both Russia and Kazakhstan. Especially dangerous is quiet penetration.

            Of course you need to be friends - but you don't need to invite "home". And to strengthen their own, separate from China, the Eurasian Union - Belarus, Russia and Kazakhstan can become the core to which other post-Soviet republics will join
    4. D. Dan
      D. Dan 11 June 2016 09: 05
      +3
      It seems that rice is growing in Altai and Khakassia! And generally, then, living and plundering resources are two different things. Personally, I would be careful with the Ketayans.
      1. Aleksandr72
        Aleksandr72 11 June 2016 09: 31
        +8
        I will answer all this with just one card - a map of the population density of China. Despite the fact that the population of this country is approaching the mark of 2 billion people (and according to some data has already exceeded this mark), most of the population of China lives in the interfluve of the Yangtze and Yellow River, as well as in the area around Harbin. I agree with my colleague Semirek - rice is vital to the Chinese - ordinary white rice, whose name in the Chinese language is synonymous with the word food, not chumiza or kaolin. The Chinese, in spite of all the successes of their industry, still remain adherents of the ancient traditions of agriculture and therefore, for the most part, live where rice grows. In Mongolia, Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan, Siberia, the Far East there are few, very few places where you can grow rice, ordinary white rice.
        There is no reason to be afraid of the PRC military invasion - there are no idiots in the leadership of the CCP and the country - they are well aware that any attempt at a serious military solution against Russia and its allies and neighbors will predictably end in a thermonuclear strike on the densely populated areas of China and this will end there. Therefore, in China, most ballistic (including intercontinental) missiles of the 2nd artillery corps are deployed in the central and western parts of the country to gain access to targets in the European part, first of the USSR, and now Russia. To be able not to lose one goal.
        However, one should be wary of China’s creeping economic expansion. In this matter, they are masters. And an extra couple or two hundred years for the followers of Confucius does not play any role.
        And here is the promised card:
        1. andrew42
          andrew42 11 June 2016 13: 56
          +4
          I agree that economic expansion is an order of magnitude worse. I lived and worked there, in the Celestial Empire, and I know how our Chinese partners pull the blanket with small steps. It seems that there is nothing to "beat" for, but look - everything around is not yours. But about Central Asia: the fact that the bulk of the population is concentrated in the southeast of China means nothing. Central Asia for China is a source of inexhaustible resources. Therefore, China will hold on to Tibet and Uyguria with its teeth, and will try with all its might to get into Central Asia. For China, this is a natural and rough road of expansion, and this road is at least 2300 years old.
        2. Revolver
          Revolver 11 June 2016 17: 28
          +5
          Quote: Aleksandr72
          I agree with my colleague Semirek - rice is vital to the Chinese - ordinary white rice, whose name in the Chinese language is synonymous with the word food, not chumiza or kaolin. The Chinese, in spite of all the successes of their industry, still remain adherents of the ancient traditions of agriculture and therefore, for the most part, live where rice grows. In Mongolia, Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan, Siberia, the Far East there are few, very few places where you can grow rice, ordinary white rice.

          For a sweet soul, they will also eat wheat and potatoes, which are quite growing in Siberia. And even more so pigs, which can be fed there on these wheat and potatoes. Arriving in America, they do not shun any food (he saw it), and in China they are sitting on a rice diet more and more out of poverty.
          And they will also eat fish from the Far Eastern seas, offshore oil and gas, the entire periodic table, which lies in Siberia and the Far East, the forest, in general, all those lands are rich in. And drink the water of the great Siberian rivers - a water crisis is planned in China. And to build cities and villages for its prolific population in places with more favorable climatic conditions than the deserts of western China. And control the Northern Sea Route.
          In general, they need Siberia. But they do not need Russians there.
          1. Chisayna
            Chisayna 12 June 2016 06: 56
            0
            An old Semitic song. Your Siberia will go to China, and we will laugh.
    5. EvgNik
      EvgNik 11 June 2016 09: 16
      +1
      Quote: semirek
      Who defeated China or the PRC in its history, this nation is not a nation of warriors

      I would not say that. How many chintowns are there in the world? In almost every country. What is this if not a quiet occupation? Only Armenians can compare with them.
      1. razmik72
        razmik72 11 June 2016 10: 51
        +6
        Quote: EvgNik
        Quote: semirek
        Who defeated China or the PRC in its history, this nation is not a nation of warriors

        I would not say that. How many chintowns are there in the world? In almost every country. What is this if not a quiet occupation? Only Armenians can compare with them.

        Evgeny Nikolaevich in his repertoire, not a single comment does without the topic of Armenians, it would seem where Armenia is and where Mongolia is, but even here he found a reason to kick the Armenians. wassat .
        1. HERMES
          HERMES 11 June 2016 16: 32
          0
          Quote: razmik72

          Evgeny Nikolaevich in his repertoire, not a single comment does without the topic of Armenians, it would seem where Armenia is and where Mongolia is, but even here he found a reason to kick the Armenians.


          He just loves Armenians ... only in his own way)) I’m here too ... hai Jews ... kidding me, mocking them, telling jokes ... but I love it at once)
      2. Kaiten
        Kaiten 11 June 2016 12: 17
        +2
        Quote: EvgNik
        Only Armenians can compare with them.

        I think you forgot someone else ....
        1. sherp2015
          sherp2015 11 June 2016 13: 33
          0
          Quote: Kaiten
          I think you forgot someone else ....



          )))) Remind people openly
          1. Kaiten
            Kaiten 11 June 2016 16: 26
            +2
            Quote: sherp2015
            )))) Remind people openly

            We Gussians are humble people ....
        2. Anglorussian
          Anglorussian 11 June 2016 22: 04
          +1
          I think you forgot someone else ....
          Yes ... laughing
    6. razmik72
      razmik72 11 June 2016 09: 28
      +1
      Quote: semirek
      Everything is clear with Mongolia, there are not rare articles about it in VO, but I would not increase fears with China - war is excluded in principle (you just need to think with your head, why?). Whom did China or China defeat in its history, this nation not a nation of warriors, Chinese farmers, and they usually live where rice grows (note, in Siberia this warm-loving culture does not grow). China at one time did not dare to start a full-fledged conflict with the USSR after provocations in Damansky and Zhalanashkol, why ? Yes, everything is simple - they explained to the descendants of Confucius, another step and a new Hiroshima is provided for you.
      No one will allow China to dominate "our" Asia - not for the Chinese, our ancestors conquered and mastered it. China is not such a superpower, as we are portrayed, just a country trying to somehow survive in the hard East Asian world.

      The times on Damansky Island are a distant past, like the Soviet Union with its most powerful army and weak China from the time of Mao. Now, if a war happens, it will be a war of a different order, morale will play a secondary role, from the beginning of the 20th century, it has become more and more a large role is played by technology.
      1. xan
        xan 11 June 2016 12: 14
        +3
        Quote: razmik72
        The times on Damansky Island are a distant past, like the Soviet Union with its most powerful army and weak China from the time of Mao. Now, if a war happens, it will be a war of a different order, morale will play a secondary role, from the beginning of the 20th century, it has become more and more a large role is played by technology.

        I agree. And also the mentality. Personally, under no circumstances do I agree with the Chinese authorities and any stranger in my land, including Siberia and the Far East, under any circumstances. Let China not lick at Siberia, but think about Armagedon, about the desert along the Yellow River and the Yangtze. They certainly will not be up to Siberia.
        1. Thunderbolt
          Thunderbolt 11 June 2016 16: 17
          0
          Quote: semirek
          .Who defeated China or China in its history -this nation is not a nation of warriors, Chinese farmers, and they usually live where rice grows
          Have you ever seen a Chinese non-warrior alive to say so boldly? Take an interest in Chinese military history, weapons history, tactics and strategy of war, dynasty wars, uprisings, China in the 20th century --- I assure you, I will learn a lot. and this doesn’t need all. Just look at the political map of the world and evaluate what place the Chinese empire occupies in the territory. And how did the Chinese farmers manage to chop off so much zemlitsa, and even save it! fellow I’ll allow myself to quote one author (I won’t give the link. I think the author will not be offended, because this author I am):
          All other countries are either used by the Americans "blindly" or "in a share" or sit and wait for the end, hoping to grab a piece fatter. China is among the latter, but if in the Far East it only launches its fluffy economic paw, then in Afghanistan and Wed He can swing his tail and unleash the fire of war from himself. These are resources, this is a bridge to Europe and BV. As you know, after the fall of Beijing, the ORDA went west and crushed all the flourishing states of Central Asia. there were Chinese advisers. China was kind of defeated, but its position improved --- since the Great Silk Road ((Chinese 絲綢之路 - sīchóuzhīlù, Uzbek Buyuk Ipak Yo'li, Uig. يىپەك يولى, Taj. kaz uly Zhibek zholy, kyrgyzstan Uluu zhibek zholu, pers. their goods to the markets of the Bl.Vostok and to the Mediterranean countries. The Chinese are very cunning people, the oldest of the existing empires. Although no, not so: all empires have collapsed, and the Chinese lands are almost within the same borders. Do you know why? Nobody knows, but this is so. hi)))
          1. Mikhail Matyugin
            Mikhail Matyugin 23 June 2016 19: 16
            0
            Quote: Thunderbolt
            Have you ever seen a Chinese non-warrior alive to say so boldly? Take an interest in Chinese military history, weapons history, tactics and strategy of war, dynasty wars, uprisings, China in the 20 century --- I assure you, you will learn a lot. X

            I would be glad if I enlighten the great feats of the Chinese in the fields of military. So far, I know examples of a different kind.
    7. ando_bor
      ando_bor 11 June 2016 14: 27
      +1
      Yes, the wall is the mentality of the Chinese, and rice does not grow behind the wall, and you need to be very careful with China, but as if some would like Russia and China to fight head-on, and in this article, under the guise of concern, this Wishlist is so outward and climbs.
      1. Monarchist
        Monarchist 20 June 2016 18: 00
        0
        There are hints. But forget what the followers of Confucius can do too!
    8. Theline
      Theline 11 June 2016 14: 36
      0
      If, in your opinion, the Chinese resettlement currently depends entirely on rice, and the PRC still does not have nuclear weapons, then I hasten to upset you.
  5. bandabas
    bandabas 11 June 2016 07: 21
    +1
    But in Mongolia there is a hefty monument of Genghis Khan.
    1. EvgNik
      EvgNik 11 June 2016 08: 06
      +5
      Quote: bandabas
      But in Mongolia there is a hefty monument of Genghis Khan.

      And in our city there is a monument to Lenin, but this does not mean that Lenin visited our city.
      1. Thunderbolt
        Thunderbolt 11 June 2016 16: 27
        0
        Quote: bandabas
        But in Mongolia there is a hefty monument of Genghis Khan.
        The Chinese authorities also did not lag behind and placed their Genghis Khan in a province bordering Korea and our Far East, in the city of Song Yuan.
  6. Lester7777
    Lester7777 11 June 2016 07: 27
    0
    SAM S-125M
    As far as I understand, you mean the Pechora-2M air defense missile system on the MZKT chassis, delivered in 2010?
  7. ver_
    ver_ 11 June 2016 07: 49
    -2
    Quote: bandabas
    But in Mongolia there is a hefty monument of Genghis Khan.

    Mongolia was founded in 1920. In the days of Baron Ungern and Suhe Bator, the union of the Khalkhov and Airov tribes.
    Immediately after this "event" they invented the ancient history of this country and "dumped" all the wars of antiquity on it ... the so-called invasions of the Tatar Mongols ..
  8. Seraphimamur
    Seraphimamur 11 June 2016 08: 00
    +22
    During the Second World War, the Mongols supplied the USSR with clothes (sheepskin coats) and meat free of charge, I'm afraid to be mistaken, but we are talking about numbers for each name of about 6 zeros. All men of military age went to war with the Japanese. During the USSR, there were so many close economic ties that there was a saying: "Chicken is not a bird - Mongolia is not abroad. As for the Chinese, at the everyday level, and in schools, they are told that the Russians have wrested the entire Far East from China. There is also a map of where these territories are. are listed as Chinese. The Chinese are not our friends, they just tolerate the situation. It is sad that our rulers do not understand this.
    1. Ossetian
      Ossetian 11 June 2016 08: 52
      0
      Quote: Seraphimamur
      During the Second World War, the Mongols supplied the USSR with clothes (sheepskin coats) and meat free of charge, I'm afraid to be mistaken, but we are talking about numbers for each name of about 6 zeros. All men of military age went to war with the Japanese. During the USSR, there were so many close economic ties that there was a saying: "Chicken is not a bird - Mongolia is not abroad. As for the Chinese, at the everyday level, and in schools, they are told that the Russians have wrested the entire Far East from China. There is also a map of where these territories are. are listed as Chinese. The Chinese are not our friends, they just tolerate the situation. It is sad that our rulers do not understand this.


      They understand that they understand, they just can’t do anything, don’t want to, the cams are obviously cotton.
      1. sherp2015
        sherp2015 11 June 2016 13: 36
        0
        Quote: Ossetian
        They understand that they understand, they just can’t do anything, don’t want to, the cams are obviously cotton.

        Quote: ver_
        .... they understand everything perfectly, but there is such a word- politeness ..


        )) Hands are occupied by the privatized ..
    2. ver_
      ver_ 11 June 2016 09: 49
      0
      .... they understand everything perfectly, but there is such a word- politeness ..
  9. Starshina wmf
    Starshina wmf 11 June 2016 09: 48
    +1
    In which case, the Buryats, Tuvans and Kalmyks will go to Mongolia as volunteers. The peoples living in Russia are also related to the Mongols.
    1. Revolver
      Revolver 11 June 2016 17: 38
      0
      Quote: Starshina wmf
      In which case, the Buryats will go to Mongolia as volunteers

      So, it seems that the Buryat armored cavalry army of Great-Ukraine has already been trampled into the land of the Donetsk region by the tai of Lugansk region, and it seems even more than a dozen times. belay Otkel there still take up troops?
      lol
      1. Monarchist
        Monarchist 20 June 2016 18: 09
        0
        Well, one battalion "Azov" half of "quilted jackets" istribed. By the way, why are we quilted jackets that dill did not wear such clothes? Or they have subtropics, and why did they buy gas then?
  10. kenig1
    kenig1 11 June 2016 11: 40
    +2
    My father in Abakan was the regiment commander in 1981-1983, the combat mission area was in Mongolia on the border with China. Twice a year I went to Mongolia for a reconnaissance month, brought chewing gums from there, I had joy))).
    1. lukke
      lukke 11 June 2016 16: 20
      0
      My father in Abakan was the regiment commander in 1981-1983, the combat mission area was in Mongolia on the border with China. Twice a year I went to Mongolia for a reconnaissance month, brought chewing gums from there, I had joy))).
      on the territory of Mongolia, a dry law was in effect - the locals had problems with alcohol, and our warriors always have alcohol. Therefore, your father, if desired, could bring not only gum, but also young ladies to any taste in unlimited quantities for a barrel or can of alcohol - if you are older)
      a joke of course ...
      I recall the officers from Mongolia at the Academy - the Finns in St. Petersburg did not stand nearby)))
      1. Captain45
        Captain45 11 June 2016 22: 34
        +1
        Quote: lukke
        on the territory of Mongolia, a dry law was in effect - the locals had problems with alcohol, and our warriors always have alcohol.

        Don't talk nonsense. You just never saw or drank the Mongolian vodka "Okh" 32g (rubbish, but you can drink) and "Archi" 38g, this is better, but the taste cannot be compared with ours, perhaps it is because of the water It is limestone in the Mongolian People's Republic.
        1. Igor V
          Igor V 11 June 2016 23: 05
          0
          I still perceive the word "archivist" inadequately. smile And also there was "SeaSarlyk" - "Horse and Yak" in one bottle. laughing
  11. erik cartman
    erik cartman 11 June 2016 12: 58
    0
    Quote: HERMES
    Quote: semirek
    No one will allow China to dominate "our" Asia - not for the Chinese, our ancestors conquered and mastered it. China is not such a superpower, as we are portrayed, just a country trying to somehow survive in the hard East Asian world.


    You underestimate China ... the days of heroically courageous battles have passed ... today, any brave men will be buried in the ground by artillery and aircraft, and then tanks will pass through them. Today, a total war will be waged by brains and equipment, rather than fighting spirit. And the advantage passes quietly to China.

    Quote: semirek
    The PRC at one time did not dare to start a full-fledged conflict with the USSR after provocations in Damansky and Zhalanashkol, why? Yes, everything is simple - they explained to the descendants of Confucius, another step and a new Hiroshima was provided for you.


    And today the only guarantee of Russia against an attack by the PRC is the Strategic Missile Forces.

    I agree to all 100%. And the Chinese are well aware of this. A land war in which case Russia and China will not. A few local nuclear strikes with the crowded population of China, instantly cool their leadership. China does not have the means to intercept our missiles. I hope this does not come to this.
    1. sherp2015
      sherp2015 11 June 2016 13: 38
      0
      Quote: erik cartman
      the Chinese are well aware of this. A land war in which case Russia and China will not. A few local nuclear strikes with the crowded population of China, instantly cool their leadership. China does not have the means to intercept our missiles. I hope this does not come to this.



      It is unlikely that such a conflict will destroy more than 80% of the population
      And even if 90%, China will still have 150 million
    2. Revolver
      Revolver 11 June 2016 17: 44
      0
      Quote: erik cartman
      China does not have the means to intercept our missiles.

      And who is going to supply China with the S-400, capable, according to what is written about them, of working for ballistic purposes?
      Say, a couple of divisions of weather will not do? Do not forget about the Chinese Xerox. Though with a loss of quality, but an air defense system that has 80% and even 60% combat capabilities of the S-400 is also not horseradish.
      1. Pissarro
        Pissarro 12 June 2016 22: 03
        +3
        it is ridiculous and naive to assume that a Russian ballistic missile can be shot down from the Russian air defense export system wink
  12. partizan86
    partizan86 11 June 2016 13: 28
    0
    I never understood why Mongolia had an army. They can’t compete with neighbors, and no one else will ever break through to them. And it’s like no one is going to take them by force. And if China does attack, a miracle happens, then it is more profitable for them to surrender right away, otherwise there is no sense at all. It is better for them to spend this money not on the economic development of the country, the same tourism, roads. I heard from them full of valuable fish, but they themselves do not eat it.
    1. Igor V
      Igor V 11 June 2016 17: 24
      +2
      The Mongolian People's Army (MNA) was founded in 1921. She showed herself worthy in the war on Khalkhin Gol and in the 45th against the Japanese, in numerous cross-border incidents. After the defeat of the Kwantung Army, Mongolia found itself between two friendly socialist states. MNA was therefore greatly reduced, there were separate units of communications, security, etc. In the early 60s there was a sharp aggravation of relations between China and the USSR. Mongolia had to choose with whom to go next. They say that in the upper echelons of power the votes were divided 50/50, and the decisive thing was that Tsedenbal had a Russian wife (and not only him). I think the question is deeper: China wants to absorb them, and the Russians are helping to be independent. In 1965, the Soviet delegation, led by Marshal I.Kh.Bahramyan (hello, razmik72 smile ), signed an agreement on assistance in the restoration of MNA.
      Of course, the MNA will not be able to oppose the PLA, but offering to surrender to the Mongols is the same as offering to surrender to the Russians. We are very similar in this respect. If you take an interest in the pace of economic development, then Mongolia is in first place in the world. And it is unfortunate that we are losing our friends and our positions in the East.
      1. Starshina wmf
        Starshina wmf 14 June 2016 06: 46
        0
        Well, it’s hardly 50 to 50. Rather, 90 to 10. The Mongols have a sharply negative attitude towards the Chinese. This comes from past centuries.
      2. Mikhail Matyugin
        Mikhail Matyugin 23 June 2016 19: 28
        0
        Quote: Igor V
        She showed herself worthy in the war on Khalkhin Gol and in 45 against the Japanese, in numerous cross-border incidents.

        Well, I would have looked at the dignified behavior of the Mongols at Khalkhin Gol or against the Manchu army, if there were no Soviet troops there, with the most modern weapons. The Japanese butchered them "like a nut" - by the way, there were almost more Mongols on the side of the Japanese than on the side of the MPR and the USSR.
    2. Pissarro
      Pissarro 12 June 2016 22: 13
      +2
      The current Mongolian army has a tradition of confrontation with the Japanese, carrying out large offensive and defensive operations jointly with the Soviet troops. What is it incomprehensible for the Chinese army to fill up with meat like in Korea or merge like in Vietnam?
      and indeed it’s stupid to evaluate the armed forces as a mountain of weapons, the army is primarily an organization, a military machine brought to perfection by the General Staff. The Russians have perfected the military art, the Chinese, with their constant capitulations to any enemy, military art is zero. there is not a single army for thousands of years defeated by the Chinese. But unorganized crowds of savages constantly nullified Chinese statehood. And the Chinese threat is nothing more than a stamp whose goal is to embroil Russia with China or make a rogue out of China to intimidate hamsters
  13. maxim1987
    maxim1987 11 June 2016 18: 50
    +1
    maybe the Mongolian Federal District? AND? it seems that even at one time articles in the Mongolian press on this subject were
    1. Igor V
      Igor V 11 June 2016 20: 51
      +2
      No. In the foreseeable future this is not possible. After our departure from Mongolia, anti-Russian propaganda was very widespread. Everything according to the old scenario, some kind of mandatory repression was found, and they did not have freedom, and writing was prohibited, and religion. To my question that there was an old Mongol ligature on the tugriks, and on the main monument in Ulan Bator too, even medical prescriptions were sometimes written like that, modern youth cannot answer, but they consider Russians to be bad. By the way, in Buryatia the same forces are working.
      1. Mikhail Matyugin
        Mikhail Matyugin 23 June 2016 19: 30
        0
        Quote: Igor V
        Everything according to the old scenario, some kind of mandatory repression was found, and they did not have freedom, and writing was prohibited, and religion.

        Well, in fact, the communists from the USSR really "noted" not from the best side, indeed almost "to the root" of the traditional Mongol beliefs. And about freedom - well, among the Mongols, this beacon of democracy, it has never been born at all - so why give it?
  14. Captain45
    Captain45 11 June 2016 22: 54
    +2
    Oh, Mongolia, a wonderland! 730 days in boots on the hills. In winter up to -45 with a breeze, in summer + 40, and if the breeze blows from the Gobi with sand ... 16 republic, as they said in the 80s. soldier) you will turn over the button on the shirt, and there is the inscription "Mosstamp", the coat of arms is Mongolian, and our seal lol They said that they even print their tugriks here at Goznak. The rate for 1 ruble is 4 tughras. There were a lot of leather things in stores, a raincoat, as I remember now, was 900 tugrs, i.e. 225 rubles, and in the Union it cost 1000, a bank Condensed milk and a pen for a pen cost 2 tughras, and in the Union it was 55 kopecks, and a rod 8 kopecks. A pack of Pamir cigarettes was 4 tughras (12 kopecks), I was not a smoker, but I received cigarettes and sold three tughras to the crickets. They served for 3 years, sometimes collecting them in aimags by helicopter. I was the only one who told me that he served for his brother, they flew in, and my brother grazed cattle somewhere, there are no documents in the steppe, well, they took him instead of his brother, but would kick in They put a "black yurt" (prison). In general, they had a hard time in the army. A Mongol battalion was 3 meters below ours, we could see from above how the officers were raising them. A leg, a leg, a stick, a stick, on the butt or on the head it didn't matter. The officers of the Cyric were afraid of the fire. belay
  15. potapych
    potapych 11 June 2016 23: 02
    0
    dk give the brothers nada with 10 ok MIG - 29 soldier
  16. Mentat
    Mentat 12 June 2016 06: 19
    +2
    “Having handed them over, we get a geopolitical mat from Beijing, our situation in this case becomes hopeless, the territory east of the Urals is automatically lost.”

    Automatically, you can only post such nonsense on the forum by clicking on the button.
    Mat, a hopeless situation, is automatically lost ... the impression is that the author wrote it under strong alcoholic influence.

    China is not able to wage war not only with Russia, but also with conventional weapons, as has on its territory a number of extremely vulnerable points. And China will not pull the war with Russia, neither technically, nor ideologically, nor economically, nor geopolitically.

    China is well aware that Russia will not forgive and tolerate such a betrayal, the consequences for China will be the most sad.
    For a variety of reasons, China will never go for real military action against Russia. This is a stupid, shortsighted, suicidal, without exaggeration, and the Chinese are not stupid to throw something like that. Especially on the military rise of Russia and with its unity.

    Certainly, it is necessary for Kazakhstan to pay attention to Mongolia. However, all these fantasies about a military “Chinese obscenity” can only arouse condolences.
    1. Razvedka_Boem
      Razvedka_Boem 12 June 2016 19: 17
      0
      Yeah) But many here only know how to minus)
    2. Igor V
      Igor V 12 June 2016 20: 01
      +2
      Unfortunately, politics consists of many components. Now Mongolia is holding back the pressure of China due to personal hostility towards the Chinese and the fact that their president studied in the USSR and treats us well, but all the same, China is already present in many areas of the country's economy. It will take some years, a new generation of politicians will come and they will block our way there, the anti-Russian propaganda is already very strong there. And when the millionth army rises a hundred kilometers from Lake Baikal, and tactical missiles cover the entire space to the Urals, you will have to scratch your turnips and think about how to organize your own security now.
    3. Mikhail Matyugin
      Mikhail Matyugin 25 June 2016 12: 38
      0
      Quote: Mentat
      “Having handed them over, we get a geopolitical mat from Beijing, our situation in this case becomes hopeless, the territory east of the Urals is automatically lost.”

      Yes, I sincerely hope that it won’t reach the war.
      But still, the Chinese have never defeated the Russians.
      This is a historical fact.
      But the Russians and the Mongols often fought together - while still being allies during the time of the Horde. For example, in the XIII-XIV centuries in Beijing (then Khanbalik) there was a "guard corps of Russians and Ases", which faithfully guarded the power of the Mongol khans.
  17. Altanod
    Altanod 10 July 2019 10: 51
    0
    When part of the Irkutsk region went under water, the Mongols quietly, without any fuss, took and sent two consignments of humanitarian supplies: flour, meat products, warm blankets and things. In Ulan Bator, a headquarters has been set up to raise funds for the injured, and children's camps are ready to accept up to one hundred children for the purpose of relaxation and acquaintance with the culture of this ancient country. Without a pump. Without high-profile statements on international platforms. Just done. Just by old friendship.

    Therefore, when we talk about friends and allies of Russia - yes, we can recall the French Resistance; the Italian Messina keeps the memory of Russian sailors who were the first to come to the aid of a city dying from an earthquake, a bust of Admiral F. F. Ushakov was installed on Greek Corfu ... But for some reason, Russia sees real help, brotherly help, neighborly only from Mongolia . For which simple human thanks to them.


    https://news-front.info/2019/07/07/o-rossijskih-soyuznikah-i-rossijskih-soyuznikah/?fbclid=IwAR3B2v8PVSXLqHyPi1RK15glfDXPKg3kviEdPKmwsqhf0ElK16_9i5hyP2s