Military Review

The history of the assault rifle MP-43

111



Modern assault rifles (assault rifles) as an independent type of rifle weapons emerged during the Second World War, when so-called “intermediate” cartridges were developed for them — more powerful than pistol cartridges, but less powerful than rifle cartridges. These cartridges increased the effective range to 500 meters, which is two to three times greater than that of submachine guns. At the same time, cartridges of lesser capacity than rifle cartridges made it possible to create for them light and reliable designs of a new class of small arms — automata (assault rifles). One of the first constructions of this kind was proposed by the talented German gunsmith Hugo Schmeisser.

With the advent of the Nazis, the Wehrmacht began to rearm. The army command, after analyzing the prospects for the development of weapons and equipment with regard to its tactical use, concluded that one of the tasks to create qualitatively new armed forces, ready for large-scale offensive actions, is to equip them with weapons that are more sophisticated than the potential opponents.

TACTICAL TECHNICAL The assignment (TTZ) for the creation of a new weapon, compiled by the Wehrmacht Army Weapons Directorate (HWaA - Heereswaffenamt), began with the requirement to develop a reduced-power cartridge for firing at a distance of up to 1004 meters.

HWaA turned its attention to the Polte cartridge company from Magdeburg, where in the year 1938, on its own initiative, created the 7,92 mm project of a “short” cartridge with a 30 mm liner length and a high initial speed 3,7 g. As a result of the signing of the contract of this company with the army leadership, detailed research and development experiments were conducted on 1938 mm “short infantry” cartridge in 1941-7,92. The hard work with a fairly large number of samples of experienced cartridges ended in 1941, with the fact that the 7,92 mm "intermediate" cartridge with a sleeve length - 33 mm, a bullet mass - 8,2 g and an initial speed - 694 m / s were recommended for use.

The initial tactical and technical requirements that determined the main features of the weapon’s design under the “intermediate” cartridge, after numerous studies conducted in 1935-1937, were reworked, and by the year 1938 the concept of a program of light automatic small arms, designed to replace the submachine gun, magazine rifle and , in part, a light machine gun. This would allow to have in the army only two (instead of the previous three) systems of small arms - an automatic rifle and a single machine gun for all the tasks.

The accumulated experience, which took into account recent advances both in scientific thought and in the production of sophisticated precision engineering products, led to the development of fairly rigid and accurate TTZs established by HWaA for new weapons. The best design forces of Germany were involved in its creation.

The history of the assault rifle MP-43


The 2 research and development bureau for testing and designing technical equipment HWaA 18 on April 1938 signed a contract with the owner of CG Haenel, a gun manufacturer, the famous gunsmith Hugo Schmeisser, to develop an automatic carbine. The new carbine received the official name Mkb (Maschinenkarabin, German - automatic carbine), which differed from the name MP (Maschinenpistole), which designated the submachine guns.

The design team for the design of Mkb was headed by H. Schmeisser himself. At the beginning of 1940, he handed over to HWaA the first prototype of an automatic carbine under the “short” cartridge of the firm “Polte”. A relatively long study of the “ammunition-weapon” complex allowed us to lay down the basic principles for solving this problem, and the talented designer chose the best way to operate the automation - removal of powder gases from the barrel. This principle will subsequently be successfully implemented in almost all automatic small arms of the post-war years, and the design of the German "intermediate" cartridge will serve as the basis for the creation of similar ammunition in many countries of the world.

The Schmaisser system's Mkb, as envisaged by the TTZ, consisted mainly of stamped parts. Automatic weapons worked on the principle of removal of powder gases from the barrel, acting on the piston associated with the stem stem. The barrel bore was locked by tilting the bolt in a vertical plane. A feature of this system was the long stroke of the piston in the gas chamber located above the barrel. To reduce the area of ​​the rubbing surfaces of the piston, transverse grooves were cut on it. Adjusting the removal of powder gases was carried out by changing the volume of the gas chamber. This was achieved by moving along the screw thread of the regulating rod of the gas coupling with a conical head that entered the chamber, which also significantly improved the functioning of the weapon in difficult conditions.

The firing-type trigger mechanism was located in a stamped box and allowed the possibility of both single and continuous fire, for this there was a button-type translator. The stop of moving parts on the sear occurred in their extreme rear position, as in submachine guns, in which such a device made it possible to avoid an accidental shot while stopping firing, during dashes and when the barrel was heated during firing. The reloading handle connected to the piston rod was on the left side of the receiver. However, it served as a fuse, for which it was necessary to drown the handle to the right, pushing on the head. With this movement, its opposite end entered the fixing hole in the receiver, securing the piston. The same grip held the moving parts of the bolt in the rear position: turning with respect to the bolt carrier, it was driven into a zigzag cut-out in the slot of the receiver. Schmeisser used here a design similar to the fuse in the MP-38 / 40 submachine gun.

For the Mkb, a sector store with a two-row arrangement of thirty cartridges was very well designed. Its filling was made from clips for five rounds with the help of an adapter that is worn on the neck of the store. The extraction window was automatically closed by a dust shield. The sighting devices consisted of a fly with a headset and an open sector sight on 800 meters. The Schmeisser automatic rifle really interested the military, who rated it as a promising weapon. After a rather lengthy rework, which lasted for the entire forty-first year, CG Haenel received an order to produce fifty prototypes for military tests at the end of the same year.

Along with this company, several more weapon companies began to develop a new type of small arms: Carl Walther GmbH, Erma and others. Since the end of the fortieth year, one of the most famous German arms firms, Walter (Walther) under the leadership of Erich Walter, who managed to obtain a contract for his company from HWaA to conduct research on the Mkb program, joined the struggle for a profitable order. He was asked to create a weapon system under the same conditions as the CG Haenel, but using the already fully developed shop from the Mkb Schmeisser system.
Walter has begun to work in firm confidence that it is capable of producing better weapons than its competitors, due to the presence of a strong production base and a higher scientific and design potential that has historically developed over many decades of its work.



Mkb Walther, in many respects, repeated the previous designs of the company, created in the thirties, but had many innovations. In the vapor system, powder gases, which had been discharged from the barrel bore into the casing through two openings, were used to move a ring-shaped piston located around the barrel and bushing. However, the translational movement of the shutter was no longer carried out by a piston, as in previous samples, but by a sleeve. The barrel is also locked by turning the bolt. Combat stops shutter located in its front. Translator of the type of fire - two-sided, flag type. Sights, raised for ease of shooting, consisted of a fly with a headset and a sector sight on 800 meters mounted on a high base. For better stability with continuous fire, the moving units of automation and the butt were located on the same axis with the barrel. Almost the entire carbine was assembled from stamped parts.

In a short time, the first prototype was manufactured, and already at the beginning of 1941, Walter presented it to the officers of the HWaA artillery and technical supply department. Although the carbine showed satisfactory performance when shooting at the Kummersdorf firing range, work to fine-tune this still imperfect construction continued throughout the 1941 year.

At the end of January 1942, in order to conduct extensive competitive testing, HWaA required CG Haenel to increase the initial order for the manufacture of Mkb in 1942 to 200 units, and Walther needed to submit 1942 automatic carbines of its design to July 200. Both HWaA systems were given the name Mkb-42, the CG Haenel product with the “H” index is Mkb-42 (H), and the Walther machine, respectively, “W” - the Mkb-42 (W).

After the demonstration of the Mkb-42 (W) and Mkb-42 (H) prototypes at the official show in July of the same year, the leadership of the German Ministry of Armaments and HWaA remained firmly convinced that both firms would soon finish their products can be run into production. Moreover, it was assumed that by November they would be able to produce 500 Mkb by firms, and by March of next year, the total production could be brought to 15 thousand monthly.

But these plans did not come true. In August, the 1942 of the year after the tests of the Mkb-42 (W) and the Mkb-42 (H) HWaA introduced new requirements to the original specifications. Summarizing the experience of combat operations, both on the Eastern Front and in Africa, showed that the promising model of the main infantry weapon must be multifunctional, that is, hit not only with fire, but also (in melee) with a bayonet and butt. Taking into account the installation on regular Mauser 98 carbines of rifle-propelled grenade launchers, it was decided to have similar devices on the Mkb. Firms were instructed to mount a tide for the bayonet on the trunks of automatic carbines and to provide for the possibility of mounting the gun Xnumx above-caliber grenade launcher. Making changes briefly, but slowed the transfer of the Mkb-1940 to production. At the same time, the problems encountered by CG Haenel with subcontractors, and Walther with the establishment of press-stamping equipment, led to the fact that by October of the ordered each company Hkb, not one was made.

This is interesting: “Maschinenpistole” index (submachine gun) for the machine gun was given by the German Minister of Arms A. Speer. Hitler was categorically against the new type of weapon under the “single cartridge”. Millions of rifle cartridges were stored in the German military depots, and the thought that they would become unnecessary after the adoption of the Schmeis machine gun caused the fuhrer to be furious. Speer's trick worked, Hitler learned the truth only two months later, after adopting the MP 43.


In November, Walther, with a monthly production rate of 500, supplied only 25 Mkb-42 (W), and in December - 91. Thanks to the support of the Ministry of Arms, both companies were able to solve the most serious production problems by the beginning of 1943. So, of the 500 Mkb, scheduled for production in January of that year, only 200 units were undersupplied, and in February Walther and CGHaenel actually exceeded the production level, producing 1217 carbines instead of the planned thousand. The Third Reich Armaments Minister Alfred Speer, in order to more thoroughly study the service and operational characteristics of the Mkb-42 (H) and Mkb-42 (W), orders that a certain number of carbines be sent for military tests to the Eastern Front .

Both automatic carbines, due to the rigidity of the HWaA specifications, as well as due to the wide use of stamping and welding in technology, had a great constructive resemblance to each other. The tests revealed that, although the Mkb-42 (W) was lighter, more compact and better balanced, which greatly affected the effectiveness of the shooting, there was still no doubt that its sophisticated automation was not suitable for use in adverse field conditions. The Mkb-42 (H) was simpler and more reliable than its competitor. According to the results of tests of new weapons, HWaA decided to give preference to the design Schmeisser, but only after making some changes to it.

The main mechanism has undergone a trigger mechanism. The use of the rear sear in the Mkb-42 (H) provided a single and continuous fire, however, the production of single shots, and even with the firing trigger, caused reasonable doubts in terms of the accuracy of the shot due to the impact of the shaft stump. To improve the accuracy of the battlefield, the original design of the firing mechanism was replaced by a more reliable trigger system of Walter, with the shutter moving parts in the forward position stopped.



The design of the sear changed, instead of a safety lever inserted into the reloading handle, a safety lever was installed, the piston stroke was altered from long to short, the gas chamber tube was shortened.

The functioning of the weapon in difficult operating conditions was improved by replacing large-section windows for the release of residual powder gases from the gas chamber tube to holes with a diameter of 7 mm. Technological changes made to the gate and bolt carrier with a gas piston. The return spring sleeve has been removed. Due to the revision of some views on the tactical use of an automatic carbine, the tide for the bayonet was shot, which, by the way, was promoted by the adoption of the Gw.Gr.Ger.42 rifle grenade launcher with a different method of mounting on the barrel. In connection with the use of beech in the production of the butt, its design is also simplified.

Most of the parts were made by cold forging with extensive use of compound parts by spot welding. The outer surfaces of the receiver, forend, magazine and other parts of the machine were machined with a zigzag machine that squeezed grooves of a different profile, which greatly increased the rigidity of these parts made from thin sheet metal. One of the major shortcomings of the new machine gun, still not eliminated by the designers, was a large mass (more than five kilograms), complicating its use in infantry units as the main sample of individual small arms.

CG Haenel, at the same time as these works were carried out, from February to June 1943 continued to produce small quantities of Mkb-42. In total, until the middle of 1943, approximately eight thousand automatic carbines were made, of which approximately - 2800 MkU-42 (W) and 5200 - Mkb-42 (Н).

Thanks to the support of Minister A. Speer, in June of the same year, the upgraded weapon under the designation MP-43 (Maschinenpistole-43, German - the submachine gun of the model 1943 of the year) went into production. The term "submachine gun" was used in the designation of this weapon for camouflage, so as not to annoy Hitler, who could not come to terms with the idea that millions of outdated rifle cartridges would be in the warehouses of Germany. And this happened at a time when even the staff officers in Berlin recognized the effectiveness of the new weapon and its ammunition. The introduction of the MP-43 into mass production was taken by Speer himself.

In September, the first full-scale military tests of the MR-43 took place on the Eastern Front in the elite German unit, the motorized division of the SS Viking. In the report on the combat use of machine guns by more than half of the shooters, it was noted that the MP-43 is an effective substitute for submachine guns and rifles. New weapons significantly influenced the increase in firepower of infantry units and reduced the need for them to use light machine guns for fire support. The fire to a depth of 400 meters was fired by single shots, then during the battles on the near approaches, submachine gunners switched to firing in short bursts.



This combination of firepower and the ability to conduct two types of fire in the MP-43 made such a strong impression on the SS generals that in their first reports they asked Hitler to allow the immediate mass production of the machine gun. According to veterans, the MP-43 is a reliable weapon. It was noted its simplicity with incomplete disassembly and assembly. Bribed and the fact that the weapon provided good accuracy in combat when shooting with a single fire at a distance of up to 600 meters (at a longer distance, specially trained snipers were already shooting), and when firing in short bursts, effective fire was fired up to 300 meters. When conducting continuous fire on 100 meters from HP-43 on a target with a diameter of 11,5 centimeters, more than half of the hits fit in a circle equal to 5,4 centimeters. The new cartridges, being lighter, less bulky and with less recoil energy, also proved to be good. When firing from the MP-43, the recoil force was half as much as the standard Mauser 98k carbine. With a “short” 7,92 mm cartridge, by reducing the weight of the cartridge, it became possible to increase the ammunition load of each infantryman. Ammunition for 150 cartridges for the Mauser 98 carbine weighed 3,9 kilograms, and 150 “short” cartridges for MP-43 weighed 2,6 kilograms, which increased their stock to six 180 cartridges, which were located in six stores that were worn in two pouches. In total, the total mass of the machine with full ammunition did not exceed 10,3 kilogram, which is approximately one kilogram heavier than the Mauser 98 karabiner with a bayonet and ammunition. The excessive gravity of the machine itself, compared with a carbine or submachine gun, was one of the few shortcomings inherent in the MP-43, which largely paid off with its many advantages. The disadvantages of the machine gun, which caused criticism of the front-line soldiers, were the fact that, in addition to the inconvenient sight, located on a high rack, when firing at night, a strong flame escaped from the barrel of the weapon, which unmasked the shooter.

The persistent appeals of the front-line soldiers, supported by HWaA and the Minister of Armaments A. Speer, as well as the results of the tests, ultimately broke Hitler’s stubbornness. After he personally requested the opinion of the troops on the new machine gun and received positive feedback, at the end of September 1943 was ordered to adopt the MR-43 to arm the infantry and deploy its mass production.

This decision has accelerated further work of the leading designers of the company CG Haenel. In the fall of 1943, the MP-43 / 1 appears, produced in small quantities by Merz-Werke. It differed from the base model by the presence of a new ZO-mm Mkb rifle grenade launcher. Gewehrgranatengerat-43 (later known as MP.Gw.Gr.Ger.43), which was screwed onto the muzzle of the barrel with a thread, and not fastened with a clamping device, like a grenade launcher Gw.Gr.Ger.42 on the MP-43. In this regard, the configuration of the trunk has changed - its external section has one diameter, in contrast to the cylinder-speed, in the MP-43. To protect the threads from damage, an elongated barrel sleeve was screwed onto the barrel. The configuration of the butt has also changed, and, to decrease the return, the size of the butt plate has increased.

For snipers, a sample MP-43 / 1 was created, on which a milled mount was installed for the four-time ZF-4 optical sights, as well as the ZG.1229 “Vampire” infrared night vision sights. For trial operation, a batch of 300 MP-43 / 1 was made with such a sight. Landing mount "Vampire" was mounted on the right side of the receiver.



1 - sighting block; 2 - reloading handle; 3 - locking pin; 4 is a translator of the kind of fire; 5 - safety switch; 6 - trigger; 7 - store latch button; 8 is the store's receiver.

The Supreme Commander of the German Armed Forces 6 on April 1944 of the year issued an order dedicated to the Wehrmacht small arms system, where the name of the MP-43 submachine gun was replaced with the MP-44. In addition to changing the year of production in the index — from 1943 to 1944 — this replacement can no longer be explained, since no innovations were made to the weapon itself. The complication of the military situation influenced the fact that in October 1944, Hitler had to issue another order, according to which Mr-44 received a new (already the fourth in two years, and this time the last) name - Stg-44 (Sturmgewehr-44, - an assault rifle of the 1944 model of the year). This was due, most likely, to political and propaganda considerations, rather than something else. The change of designation - "submachine gun" to "assault rifle" - has become more accurately reflect the role and main purpose of these weapons in battle. No changes have been made to the design of the machine, with the exception of the Stg.44 stamp, placed directly on the old MP-44 stamp, located on the receiver. In all likelihood, this is typical only for weapons released at the end of 1944 of the year. The MP-43 / MP-44 submachine guns were armed, first of all, by selected troops - motorized units and formations of the Wehrmacht and the SS field forces.



History German machines MP-43 / Stg-44 did not end with the capitulation of Germany. After the war, they from 1948 to 1956 year were in service with the barracks police of the GDR and in 1945-1950 years in the airborne troops of the Yugoslav People's Army.

German designers, gunsmiths, by right, have priority in the development of industrial mass production of a new class of individual automatic firearms under the “intermediate” cartridge. Careful preliminary study of the use of small arms ammunition, as well as the study of the tactical capabilities of automatic weapons of this class contributed to the concept of "assault rifles" (machine guns). The Germans were able to uncover the great opportunities inherent in the new type of weapons earlier than others — namely, the German MP-43 / Stg-44 had a huge impact on the entire post-war development of a new class of small arms: assault rifles (automatic), designed for an “intermediate” cartridge, and not only western, but also Soviet samples. So, all the initial development of similar weapons in the USSR were based on the design principles embodied in the Germanic models, and this, first of all, relates to the Kalashnikov assault rifle of the 1946 model of the year. However, the creation of Soviet small arms under the "intermediate" cartridge - this is a completely different story, which requires a separate conversation.

This is interesting: at the end of 1944, the German designer Ludwig Forgrimler designed the experimental machine Stg. 45M. But the defeat of Germany in the Second World War did not allow to complete the construction of an assault rifle. After the war, Forgrimler moved to Spain, where he settled in the design office of the weapons company CETME. In the middle of 1950-x on the basis of its construction Stg. 45 Ludwig creates a CETME Model A assault rifle. After several upgrades, a “Model B” appeared, and in 1957, the German leadership acquired a license to manufacture this rifle at the Heckler und Koch factory. In Germany, the rifle was given the G-3 index, and it became the ancestor of the famous Heckler-Koch series, including the legendary MP5. G-3 was or is in service with the armies of more than fifty countries.
111 comments
Information
Dear reader, to leave comments on the publication, you must to register.

I have an account? Sign in

  1. Bosk
    Bosk 21 September 2013 08: 20
    10
    There is still a difference between MP-43 and MP-44, the 44th was made from thinner material with a phosphated rather than oxidized surface as in the 43rd surface. Well, the rest is a well-deserved plus.
    1. Civil
      Civil 21 September 2013 17: 34
      -7
      Kalashosrach will begin again ....
      1. Matio
        Matio 22 September 2013 13: 28
        13 th
        Have you read the article? It is about 1942-43, when they did it in Germany, and not about 1945-46 when they copied what was done in Russia.
        1. vadim dok
          vadim dok 22 September 2013 17: 14
          0
          I completely agree with you and support!
      2. Heccrbq .2
        Heccrbq .2 24 September 2013 21: 03
        -1
        Let’s start, it looks a lot like ....... hmm, and it so happened by chance that comrade Hugo S., after the victory of the 45th, lived and worked side by side with mmmm, as it were, well, you understand with whom Why would it? I do not believe in coincidence, and you?
        1. kytx
          kytx 24 September 2020 05: 36
          0
          In general, Shmeiser and Kalashnikov worked in different cities, well, never side by side.
          and Fedorov wrote in 44: "the design of the German automatic machine is of no interest to us"
    2. Aryan
      Aryan 21 September 2013 19: 10
      +2
      In the video, the left-handed shooter
      and I read that left-handed weapons were uncomfortable
      in the last seconds of the video it feels like the shooter got into sabaku laughing
  2. Timeout
    Timeout 21 September 2013 08: 37
    13
    German arms manufacturers, rightfully, have priority in the development of industrial serial production of a new class of individual automatic firearms under the "intermediate" cartridge.

    It’s a rather controversial issue, it can also be considered a weapon under an intermediate cartridge Fedorov’s rifle, since by the combination of properties 6.5 Arisak can be attributed to intermediate, the energy of this cartridge ranges from 2300 to 2600 KJ, and for the standard 7.62x39 57-H-231 equals 2010-2100 Kj Mattresses of their own .30 M1 Karabayn are also classified as intermediate ones and he appeared with the German patron at the same time (1940). So who is the priority in creating the intervals, this is another question. But the article is still quite detailed. A plus!
    1. Rex
      Rex 22 September 2013 23: 19
      +2
      Quote: Timeout
      German arms manufacturers, rightfully, have priority in the development of industrial serial production of a new class of individual automatic firearms under the "intermediate" cartridge.


      I agree - a very controversial statement because:
      1. cartridges of the type of intermediate steel will appear for about 30 years to 7,92x33, and this is not counting the Winchesters cartridges;
      2. Previously appeared, several models of automatic weapons were produced under similar cartridges.
      The statement can be true only due to the volume of release - perhaps it was more than its earlier counterparts
  3. Droid
    Droid 21 September 2013 08: 38
    +3
    When conducting continuous fire 100 meters from the HP-43 at a target with a diameter of 11,5 centimeters, more than half of the hits fit into a circle equal to 5,4 centimeters.

    Where did the firewood come from? For example, when firing from PKS from the machine, with fixed aiming mechanisms R50 = 8 cm per 100 m.
  4. Nayhas
    Nayhas 21 September 2013 08: 50
    +7
    I apologize for returning to the hackneyed topic, but ... When they say that AK and Shg. 44 have little in common and the design of the first is compared, the original is made according to the well-known construction of Shg. 44. For some reason, the fact that H. Schmeiser could not be taken back in 1943 is not taken into account. abandon the improvement of their offspring, because the design idea does not stand still. Shg. 44 had a number of shortcomings identified during the operation in the army, there were difficulties in production and it was logical that the gunsmiths from Henel tried to correct them. We are not aware of the modifications that are being developed in Section 44 that they managed to do by May 1945, but it is known that all the documentation of the Henel company migrated to the USSR, as well as a number of engineers headed by H. Schmeiser, what could they do in Izhevsk? Only a continuation of the improvement of Shg. 44 but already under our TTZ. At the same time, they are trying to convince us that a former tanker who did not have any special education, did not have any experience in the production of small arms, suddenly won the competition bypassing his experienced rivals, having previously failed with the AK-46 and dropped out of the competition altogether.
    1. True
      True 21 September 2013 09: 15
      +2
      At one time I was here for SUCH thoughts, it was minus.
      1. True
        True 21 September 2013 09: 42
        +3
        IMHO: The country needed a hero, she got it. And there is nothing wrong with that.
    2. sergey72
      sergey72 21 September 2013 09: 18
      +8
      I don’t know about the AK-46, but as many as 18 (!) Different designs of automatic rifles were presented at the competition, and only three of them entered the second round of tests ...
      1. Nayhas
        Nayhas 21 September 2013 11: 13
        0
        Quote: sergey72
        I don’t know about the AK-46, but at the competition as many as 18 (!) Different designs of automatic rifles were presented and only three of them entered the second round of tests

        Let's remember how the second round of trials ended. AK-46 was deemed unsuitable for further development. Those. they put an end to it. And suddenly, Kalashnikov found an AK-47 that was different in design and won the competition, and with this Kalashnikov assault rifle moved to Izhevsk where, in a strange way, H. Schmeiser and his cheerful company were subordinated to him. Why's that?
        1. Uhe
          Uhe 21 September 2013 17: 26
          +2
          With a machine gun Bulkin !!!

          What are you stupid about? Already millions of times it has been sucked and proven. Go to the Hanza, there you can talk with real designers, and not with kids who have read Mein Kampf or some Fomenko. There, and chop the "truth-womb", just keep in mind that in response you will be answered according to your feverish delirium.
        2. Avenger711
          Avenger711 21 September 2013 19: 26
          +2
          And you do not confuse the cause with the effect?
        3. Pavel57
          Pavel57 28 September 2019 09: 46
          0
          An option that Kalashnikov brought to the series a Simonov assault rifle.
    3. self-propelled
      self-propelled 21 September 2013 09: 24
      12
      Quote: Nayhas
      I apologize for returning to the hackneyed topic, but

      AK and Stg-44 have too many fundamentally different solutions (receiver design, trigger system, barrel locking assembly, etc.)
      I must admit - German arms manufacturers, rightfully, have a priority in the development of industrial serial production of a new class of individual automatic firearms under the "intermediate" cartridge. A thorough preliminary study of the use of small arms ammunition, as well as the study of the tactical capabilities of automatic weapons of this class, contributed to the birth of the concept of “assault rifles” (assault rifles).
      The Germans were quicker than others to discover the great opportunities inherent in a new type of weapon - namely, the German MP-43 / MP-44 / Stg-44 had a huge impact on the entire post-war development of a new class of small arms: assault rifles (machine guns), designed for "intermediate" cartridge
      1. Nayhas
        Nayhas 21 September 2013 11: 07
        -8
        Quote: self-propelled
        AK and Stg-44 have too many fundamentally different solutions (receiver design, trigger system, barrel locking assembly, etc.)

        Undoubtedly and indisputably. In any case, the answer will be received after declassifying the work of the team of H. Schmeiser in Izhevsk. But I'm afraid this will never happen, because AK will have to be renamed ASH.
        1. vkrav
          vkrav 21 September 2013 18: 02
          +5
          Hugo Schmeiser and his comrades worked on the AK-47 store. Again, they didn’t work in a vacuum.
          1. Uncle Serozha
            Uncle Serozha 21 September 2013 22: 00
            +9
            Quote: vkrav
            Hugo Schmeiser and his comrades worked on the AK-47 store. Again, they didn’t work in a vacuum.

            And more than that. Hugo Schmeiser was not a designer at all, but a technologist. That is why he headed the design team at his company (it was impossible to rebuild, they danced from the machine park). And his main contribution to Izhevsk is the optimization of the machinery. Which of course is important, but has little to do with the design.
          2. The centurion
            The centurion 22 September 2013 11: 37
            +8
            Quote: vkrav
            Totally unclassified

            G. Schmeiser, after returning from the USSR, wrote a book in Germany about his work in Izhevsk. There, he does not say a word that he designed an automaton. He writes that he made a great contribution to the improvement of its production technology.
            1. Day 11
              Day 11 22 September 2013 11: 47
              0
              What nonsense are you writing! He was on a subscription !!! Who would let him? Where did he live? Correctly, in the German Democratic Republic. And yet, if you undertake to write, so write correctly --- H. Schmeisser (Hugo Schmeisser)
              1. Alex
                Alex 29 January 2014 19: 07
                +2
                Quote: Den 11
                What nonsense are you writing!
                Oh Dan, finally! Well, then, the Germans are praised, and all without you! The mess, however!
          3. Matio
            Matio 22 September 2013 13: 22
            +2
            WHY was Schmeiser's "work" classified if it was small and insignificant?
            1. svp67
              svp67 22 September 2013 13: 59
              +1
              Quote: Matio
              WHY was Schmeiser's "work" classified if it was small and insignificant?

              And this generally tried not to advertise, as we and the Americans. German "specialists" worked fruitfully both in aviation and in tank building, not to mention missiles. Such is the fate of the VICTORIES ...
              1. Pavel57
                Pavel57 28 September 2019 09: 49
                +1
                .... and in the nuclear industry. A theater is simply the development of German ideas in Samara.
          4. Siberian54
            Siberian54 27 June 2020 10: 05
            0
            Schmeisser has a pre-war patent for a "lunar magazine with two-row cartridges.
        2. vanaheym
          vanaheym 24 September 2013 16: 06
          0
          In order to declassify the work of H. Schmeiser and Kalashnikov in Izhevsk, you should first know that the competitive samples of the AK-47 were created not in Izhevsk, but in Kovrov.
      2. roial
        roial 21 September 2013 14: 19
        +3
        Compare the MP-44 with the earlier AK-46.
        1. svp67
          svp67 22 September 2013 13: 27
          0
          Quote: roial
          Compare the MP-44 with the earlier AK-46.

          And you can also clarify:
          - And WHAT was the method of locking the barrel channel used on these two samples?
        2. svp67
          svp67 22 September 2013 13: 34
          +4
          Here is a machine gun that helped Kalashnikov make his own name. By the way, he does not hide it. Frankly speaking, at that time, the main thing was to create a new reliable machine and everyone worked in this direction, and everyone helped each other, without any "firmness", the memory of the war was VERY and VERY alive ...

          Automatic Bulkina AB-46
          1. svp67
            svp67 22 September 2013 13: 41
            +6
            And so the man who did MUCH MUCH for the development of our small arms was tremendously TALENT, but remained almost unknown. If it weren’t for Kalashnikov, I think that Sergey Gavrilovich Simonov (1894-1986) would have done no worse ...
      3. bublic82009
        bublic82009 21 September 2013 22: 14
        +4
        judging by the picture there’s already someone on the MP-44 and it looks like this is the M-16. outwardly yes the difference is great but the disassembly principle is similar
      4. vanaheym
        vanaheym 24 September 2013 16: 00
        0
        Well, yes, everything converges - and that and that has a trunk, a store and a butt. If we talk about constructive similarities, then the closest brother of Stg44 is the Czechoslovak Vz58, which also looks like an AK purely outwardly, having nothing in common constructively. In contrast to AK, in Vzgory the layout of the receiver and the trigger and the gas piston are almost identical, and Walter’s locking system.
    4. avt
      avt 21 September 2013 09: 29
      13
      Quote: Nayhas
      At the same time, they are trying to convince us that a former tanker who did not have any special education, did not have any experience in the production of small arms, suddenly won the competition bypassing his experienced rivals, having previously failed with the AK-46 and dropped out of the competition altogether.

      Well, at first the liberoids clung to Grandfather Misha supposedly an accomplice of the killers - he did the gun, then he made tunnels that Schmeiser did everything - look how similar he was, but when they stuck their muzzles into concrete details, they said that he stood behind Izmovsk and Kalashnikov was behind him back. laughing But now it doesn’t roll, at least for this reason
      Quote: Droid
      I don’t know what Schmeiser did in Izhevsk, but AK was created in Kovrov.
      And here is a new entry
      Quote: Nayhas
      We are not aware of the modifications that are being developed in Section 44 that they managed to do by May 1945, but it is known that all the documentation of the Henel company migrated to the USSR, as well as a number of engineers headed by H. Schmeiser, what could they do in Izhevsk?

      It seems that Schmeiser did not stand behind the Kuhlmann, but immediately brought the blueprints. Well, the manager cannot calm down that in the USSR the design school was really capable, again through the Soviet education that gave such an amount of knowledge that every cook could manage the state, prepare cool design engineers.
      1. Nayhas
        Nayhas 21 September 2013 11: 22
        10 th
        Quote: avt
        Well, the manager cannot calm down that in the USSR the design school was really capable, again through the Soviet education that gave such an amount of knowledge that every cook could manage the state, prepare cool design engineers

        I ask you to list those educational institutions that train design engineers who graduated, well, at least with triplets before 1947. MT Kalashnikov or as you put it "Uncle Misha".
        1. bunta
          bunta 21 September 2013 12: 12
          10
          Yes! And do not forget to indicate which institution Hugo Schmeisser graduated from.
          1. PPL
            PPL 21 September 2013 23: 46
            +5
            Hugo even had a dad as a famous weapon designer in Europe. This is probably inherited laughing
        2. avt
          avt 21 September 2013 12: 34
          +9
          Quote: Nayhas
          I ask you to list those educational institutions that train design engineers who graduated, well, at least with triplets before 1947. MT Kalashnikov or as you put it "Uncle Misha".

          Well, Korolev, for example, did not receive a diploma from the Moscow Higher Technical School, although he did his diploma work in the form of an airplane. Well, then they did not trade diplomas at the Komsomolskaya metro station. When people of our generation say "school", then this is not a modern, again, for example, a higher school of economics. But with regards to Kalashnikov, if you look at his biography, then there was a moment when his first software was transferred for examination to an engineer of an old formation and there was a corresponding response, but the attachment of a talented person, even with elementary education to a specific design team, gives a lot, this is any engineer who has passed the stage of a "young specialist" knows. So it is possible to cut a "nugget at a school" even for years three, but most of today's certified managers from paid universities - perhaps not. But I probably agree in one thing, now it's hard to believe in. Then people made a dizzying career, like Lazar Kaganovich in the Moscow Metropolitan named after him, in general without education he was engaged not only in organizational, but also completely technical issues, then in the NKPS, the current JSC Russian Railways.
        3. Uhe
          Uhe 21 September 2013 17: 31
          +6
          And you learn the Russian language for a start, otherwise it’s hard to read you;) Now when you learn, then you will demand something from other interlocutors.

          And I, in turn, absolutely responsibly affirm - holding my fingers with a cross behind my back :))), - that the Nazis stole the design of their machine gun from Fedorov. Prove the opposite with all documentation on the machine. If you can’t, then you are a liar and a provocateur;) Well, get started.
        4. Aleksys2
          Aleksys2 21 September 2013 21: 28
          +5
          Quote: Nayhas
          I ask you to list those educational institutions that train design engineers who graduated, well, at least with triplets before 1947. MT Kalashnikov or as you put it "Uncle Misha".

          In the fall of 1938, he was drafted into the Red Army in the Kiev Special Military District. After a course of junior commanders, he received the specialty of a tank driver and served in the 12th Panzer Division in Stryi (Western Ukraine). He showed his inventive abilities already there - he developed an inertial counter for shots from a tank gun, a device for a TT pistol to increase the efficiency of firing through slots in a tank tower, a tank’s counter for motor resources. It’s worth recalling that the tank’s meter was the first invention of the young tanker M. T. Kalashnikov. recommended for serial production back in 1940, but did not manage to organize it. The latter invention was quite significant, as evidenced by the fact that Kalashnikov was called to report on it to the commander of the Kiev Special Military District, Army General Georgy Konstantinovich Zhukov. After a conversation with the commander, he is sent to the Kiev Tank Technical School for the manufacture of prototypes, and after completion of the tests in Moscow for comparative tests and then to the Leningrad Plant named after Voroshilov, for completion and launch into the series.
          He began the Great Patriotic War in August 1941 with a tank commander with the rank of senior sergeant, and in October he was seriously wounded near Bryansk. At the hospital, I really got into the idea of ​​creating my own model of automatic weapons. He began to make sketches and drawings, comparing and analyzing his own impressions of the battles, the opinions of his comrades in arms, the contents of the books of the hospital library. The advice of one lieutenant paratrooper who had worked in some research institute before the war, who knew the systems of small arms and the history of their creation, was also useful.
          In the direction of the doctors he was sent for aftercare in a six-month vacation. Returning to Matai, with the help of depot specialists, three months later he created a prototype of his first model of a submachine gun. From Matai he was sent to Alma-Ata, where he made a more advanced model in the training workshops of the Moscow Aviation Institute, evacuated to the capital of Kazakhstan. Later, the sample was presented to the then-head of the Military Engineering Academy named after im. Samarkand. F. E. Dzerzhinsky A. A. Blagonravov, an outstanding scientist in the field of small arms.
          Although Blagonravov’s review was generally negative, he noted the originality and interestingness of the development and recommended sending Senior Sergeant Kalashnikov for further training. Later, a Kalashnikov submachine gun was presented to the Main Artillery Directorate of the Red Army. Noting some of the shortcomings and the generally successful design, GAU experts did not recommend taking the Kalashnikov PP into service for technological reasons.
          Since 1942, Kalashnikov has been working at the Central Research Range of Small Arms (NIPSMVO) of the Main Artillery Directorate of the Red Army. Here in 1944, he created a prototype self-loading carbine, which, although it did not go into the series, partially served as a prototype for the creation of an assault rifle.
          1. bunta
            bunta 21 September 2013 21: 50
            +5
            At the Leningrad plant, he was also offered a new mass switch, immediately recommended for production. A place in the design bureau of this plant after demobilization was already being prepared for MTK. Before participating in the competition for the machine gun, Kalashnikov worked on the Goryunov machine gun. As a result, his idle firing device was introduced. This was the first real implementation of the designer that came to production. In addition, Kalashnikov participated in the development of a single machine gun in the 44 year.
            Total we have in less than four years - two submachine guns, a carbine and a machine gun. Plus, work on improving the Goryunov machine gun.
            And now the attention of gentlemen inhalers on behalf of "Schmeisser". Without looking at Wikipedia, list the samples of weapons developed by the great and terrible Hugo Schmeisser.
    5. Strashila
      Strashila 21 September 2013 09: 34
      +4
      But there were samples of the Fedorov assault rifle, SVT and ABC
      1. Bear52
        Bear52 21 September 2013 10: 01
        +5
        Yes, but let's also remember SCS!
      2. bunta
        bunta 21 September 2013 10: 16
        12
        Quote: Strashila
        But there were samples of the Fedorov assault rifle, SVT and ABC

        Chubby Babai! Yes, all Deribasovskaya unanimously speaks for the fact that Schmeisser still stole the locking scheme by skewing the shutter (in a vertical plane!) At Tokarev.
        1. pasha1713
          pasha1713 22 September 2013 11: 27
          0
          It seems earlier Tokarev scheme of locking the bore of the barrel skew shutter in the vertical plane used by the Czechs on the ZB-27
          1. bunta
            bunta 22 September 2013 18: 30
            +2
            It is certainly interesting - who is the first. But it’s much more interesting why all modern automatic weapons use a shutter rotation rather than a warp. Who will say why and from whom he learned this - to that is a carrot at the expense of the establishment.
    6. Vovka levka
      Vovka levka 21 September 2013 12: 27
      +1
      Quote: Nayhas
      but it is known that all the documentation of the Henel company migrated to the USSR, as well as a number of engineers led by H. Schmeiser, what could they do in Izhevsk?

      What they were doing? Kalash did and did. And what should Kalash be called Schmeiser?
      1. Uhe
        Uhe 21 September 2013 17: 33
        0
        It has long been proven that they did nothing. The same Schmeiser pretended to be constantly ill, which is why he was kicked out back after a short time. The only way he helped was to create one technology (stamping, or something - I don’t remember exactly now).

        The Nazis only at the sight of their sick Hitler could do something - they were excited by his lopsided antics, apparently;)
      2. Alex
        Alex 29 January 2014 19: 15
        +1
        Quote: Vovka Levka
        What they were doing? Kalash did and did.
        And you stood behind your back and sharpened carapace ...
    7. Algor73
      Algor73 21 September 2013 13: 28
      +1
      The first AK samples. What is different? http://www.sinopa.ee/sor/bo001/bo04av/bo04av01/opit00/opit00.htm
      1. Aleksys2
        Aleksys2 21 September 2013 21: 42
        +2
        Quote: Algor73
        The first AK samples. What is different?

        According to the results of the second round of the competition, the first Kalashnikov assault rifle was found unsuitable for further development. However, Kalashnikov managed to challenge this decision, having obtained permission to further refine his sample, which helped him to get acquainted with a number of commission members with whom he served together with 1943 of the year, and received permission to finalize the machine. For this purpose, he returned to Kovrov, where, probably using his connections to study the weapons of competitors in competition, together with the designer of the Kovrov plant No. 2 A. Zaitsev, in the shortest possible time he actually developed a new machine, and for a number of signs it can be concluded that Designs were widely used elements (including the arrangement of key components), borrowed from other submitted to the competition or simply previously existing samples. Thus, the design of the bolt frame with a rigidly attached gas piston, the general layout of the receiver and the placement of the return spring with the guide, the protrusion of which was used to lock the cover of the receiver, were copied from Bulkin’s prototype machine gun; USM (with minor improvements), judging by the design, could have been “spied” on the Holek rifle (according to another version, it goes back to the development of John Browning, which was also used in the M1 Garand rifle; these versions, however, are not mutually exclusive), the lever of the fuse-translator fire, which also acts as a dust cover for the shutter window, very much resembled that of the Remington 8 rifle, and a similar "hanging" bolt group inside the receiver with minimal friction areas and large gaps was characteristic of Sudaev’s assault rifle.
        The mere borrowing of successful solutions cannot guarantee the success of the design as a whole, however, Kalashnikov and Zaitsev managed to create such a design, and in the shortest possible time, which in principle cannot be achieved by any compilation of ready-made units and design solutions. Moreover, there is an opinion that copying successful and well-proven technical solutions is one of the conditions for creating any successful weapon model, in particular, allowing the designer not to “reinvent the wheel”
        1. pasha1713
          pasha1713 22 September 2013 12: 05
          0
          At the first stage of the competition, the SPM GAU presented 16 outline designs of automatic machines. After their consideration in August 1946, ten projects were recommended for correction and refinement.
          In October 1946, the competition committee considered the modified outline designs of the machines. As a result of the review, the commission recommended the projects of Rukavishnikov, Kalashnikov, Korobov, Baryshev, Bulkin, Dementiev for the manufacture of prototypes and for conducting field tests.
          According to the results of the consideration of the projects, the best of them were awarded prizes. The commission decided that not one of the works deserves the first prize. The second prize received Rukavishnikov, the third - Korobov. The Commission also considered it appropriate to note Kalashnikov incentive prizes,
          Bulkin, Dementiev and Baryshev.
          After the Kalashnikov project was positively evaluated by the competitive commission, by the decision of the Ministry of Armament and the SPM GAU, it is sent to plant No. 2 (now the plant named after V.A. Degtyarev). The same decision by the OGKs and the experimental work shop is entrusted with the production of prototypes of the machine and presentation them on field tests.
          To carry out this work, it was proposed to provide world-wide assistance to the author of the construction by seconding experienced draftsmen and technologists to him for the development of working drawings (Letter from the head of the SAI GAU Dubovitsky on October 29, 1946 to the director of plant No. 2 Fomin).
          Pursuant to the instructions of the Ministry and the State Agrarian University, a group of designers under the leadership of Kalashnikov is formed in the OGK of the plant, which includes Zaitsev, Soloviev and other performers.
          At the beginning of 1947, the production of the first samples of automatic machines was completed at the factory. Prototypes of the construction of Rukavishnikov, Korobov, Bulkin, Dementiev, Kalashnikov arrived at the test site in May-June 1947. In parallel with the prototypes, PPSh, Sudaev's gun (AS-44) and Stg44 were tested. As a result of the tests, the Kalashnikov assault rifle was the best.
          In 1947 (and later) in the OGK of plant No. 2 and in KB-2, automatic machines were updated according to the comments received during the tests.
          (O.S. Rusakov Kovrov gunsmiths)
          This, if I may say so, is the official version.
    8. bunta
      bunta 21 September 2013 15: 40
      +4
      Quote: Nayhas
      At the same time, they are trying to convince us that a former tanker who did not have any special education, did not have any experience in the production of small arms, suddenly won the competition bypassing his experienced rivals, having previously failed with the AK-46 and dropped out of the competition altogether.

      You are trying to convince yourself.


      An additional comparative analysis of the design of AK-46 and other systems - its real competitors, the study of the possibilities of eliminating the shortcomings identified during the tests, their subsequent refinement were in favor of the Kalashnikov system. The ways to implement the proposals and recommendations of the training ground for the structural restructuring of this system, proposed by its author, seemed more accessible and simple than the completion of other designs.
      ...
      The final result of the tests was the draft conclusion of the tender committee:

      "1. All the machines presented for testing do not satisfy the TTT GAU, and none of them can be recommended for the manufacture of the series.

      2. Kalashnikov assault rifles (with stamped receiver), Dementyev and Bulkin, as the most fully satisfying TTTs, are recommended for revision.

      Revise in full accordance with the conclusions of the report. ”
      ...




      A.A. Malimon "Domestic automata"
      1. Uhe
        Uhe 21 September 2013 17: 36
        +7
        That's right. Kalashnikov quickly took Bulkin’s achievements, almost completely changed his machine gun and offered it to the contest.

        In one thing, Goebbels' kids are right: the figure of Kalashnikov came in very handy for the role of the creator of the machine gun for the Red Army, which is why all the designers of that competition began to work for him after the above decision. But this does not negate the fact that the AK itself was invented and manufactured by Soviet designers, and who was appointed the "culprit" of the celebration does not matter.

        Now AK-12 Zlobin is doing, but it is called - a Kalashnikov assault rifle :) And the same AK-74, do you think, did Kalashnikov himself? Now, yeah. He only punched him in front of the military, crushing his name, but his subordinates worked for him. However, rallying and creating a working team is worth a lot.
      2. Black Colonel
        Black Colonel 23 September 2013 15: 08
        0
        "2. Kalashnikov assault rifles (with stamped receiver)"
        In fact, the AK-47 had a milled receiver
        1. The comment was deleted.
        2. Siberian54
          Siberian54 27 June 2020 10: 11
          0
          The first were stamped, but because of the small resource and the funds that appeared, they began to make milled.
    9. Uhe
      Uhe 21 September 2013 17: 24
      +8
      Read about the system of competitions in the USSR, in which the use of the ideas of other designers of this competition was considered not only commendable, but necessary, as well as about Bulkin’s machine gun.

      And yes, Kalashnikov had experience in making weapons;) I advise you not to smack the mui Ne from the category of "tough ryusky musicians stole the thought of the gloomy Teffton genius", but to get acquainted with all the available information on this matter.

      The descendants of the Nazis do not itch in any way - they lost to those who were called subhuman. We lost with all our Schmeisers. V-2, Mouse and other wunderwaves. Calm down already.
    10. Avenger711
      Avenger711 21 September 2013 19: 31
      +4
      However, it’s enough to look at pedagogy to notice that Misha was an inventor before the war, and the illiterate do not get into the tank. He was engaged in the creation of the rifle almost the entire war, since he was wounded from the front.
    11. vadim dok
      vadim dok 22 September 2013 17: 17
      -6
      Russia is the birthplace of elephants!
      1. Alex
        Alex 29 January 2014 19: 18
        0
        Quote: vadim dok
        Russia is the birthplace of elephants!
        Yes. Are you offended? Go to a psychoanalyst, they say, helps.
    12. Rex
      Rex 22 September 2013 23: 46
      +1
      Quote: Nayhas
      At the same time, they are trying to convince us that a former tanker who did not have any special education, did not have any experience in the production of small arms, suddenly won the competition bypassing his experienced rivals, having previously failed with the AK-46 and dropped out of the competition altogether.


      Not Kalashnikov’s defense, but just for reminder.
      Since the beginning of "freedom of speech", the topic has been actively discussed for about 20 years. In my opinion, everything that can be written has already been written, but we see that most of the population missed these debates, and there is not only about Schmeiser ...
      Before giving out your hypotheses, it would not hurt to familiarize yourself with the former
    13. Black Colonel
      Black Colonel 23 September 2013 14: 36
      0
      And let me ask an immodest question: after the return of H. Schmeiser to his homeland, why didn't they start producing such a brainchild somewhere behind the "Iron Curtain"? It is somehow illogical that the capitalists did not use the ready-made developments of the German. NOBODY can give an intelligible answer to this question. The same MG-42 was produced converted to NATO 7,62x51 for a long time. And it is still produced in Pakistan.
      And about the shortcomings in the first AK designs, so who didn’t have them?
    14. Siberian54
      Siberian54 27 June 2020 09: 46
      0
      Again "self-taught", again "no experience" - the first PP Kalashnikov submitted to the competition back in 1942, he did not get into service due to the fact that the inventor did not have his own design bureau and he did not have time to remove minor flaws in time, "children's illness "and the difficult situation at the front did not greatly contribute to the adoption of non-breakthrough new weapons ...
  5. Droid
    Droid 21 September 2013 08: 59
    +8
    Quote: Nayhas
    We are not aware of the modifications that are being developed in Section 44 that they managed to do by May 1945, but it is known that all the documentation of the Henel company migrated to the USSR, as well as a number of engineers headed by H. Schmeiser, what could they do in Izhevsk? Only a continuation of the improvement of Shg. 44 but already under our TTZ. At the same time, they are trying to convince us that a former tanker who did not have any special education, did not have any experience in the production of small arms, suddenly won the competition bypassing his experienced rivals, having previously failed with the AK-46 and dropped out of the competition altogether.

    I don’t know what Schmeiser did in Izhevsk, but AK was created in Kovrov.
    1. Nayhas
      Nayhas 21 September 2013 11: 01
      -5
      Quote: Droid
      I don’t know what Schmeiser did in Izhevsk, but AK was created in Kovrov.

      But only after the alleged creation of Kalashnikov moved to Izhevsk and the production from Kovrov was transferred there.
  6. sergey72
    sergey72 21 September 2013 09: 30
    +2
    In general, all the rehearsals of the competition and its participants, favorites and outsiders, are well described in one of the issues of the Kalashnikov magazine last year. I can't give the exact number, I forgot, the magazine is at home, and I myself am at work ...
    1. bunta
      bunta 21 September 2013 10: 05
      +3
      Quote: sergey72
      In general, all the rehearsals of the competition and its participants, favorites and outsiders, are well described in one of the issues of the Kalashnikov magazine last year.


      The best work of A.A. Malimon "Domestic Automata". There is much more material than in the magazine.
  7. Droid
    Droid 21 September 2013 09: 33
    +1
    Quote: sergey72
    In general, all the rehearsals of the competition and its participants, favorites and outsiders, are well described in one of the issues of the Kalashnikov magazine last year. I can't give the exact number, I forgot, the magazine is at home, and I myself am at work ...

    You can go to kalashnikov.ru and see the archive of numbers. There, most of the articles, after six months, are freely available.
    1. sergey72
      sergey72 21 September 2013 09: 40
      +1
      Thank you hi I'm going to try now...
    2. sergey72
      sergey72 21 September 2013 10: 56
      0
      I didn’t dig, but in the evening I’ll come home to see for sure ...
  8. bunta
    bunta 21 September 2013 09: 45
    +5
    Quote: Droid
    I do not know what Schmeiser did in Izhevsk


    For ignorance of the history of his native country on the priest, you need to tickle with a nettle broom! Read:

    http://master-gun.com/velikie-oruzhejniki/xugo-shmajsser-v-izhevske-chast-1
    1. Rider
      Rider 21 September 2013 17: 12
      +5
      Quote: bunta
      For ignorance of the history of his native country on the priest, you need to tickle with a nettle broom!


      poor Neykhaz, you killed his dream in the heart.

      sounds a mourning march.

      I shake your hand. good
  9. vomag
    vomag 21 September 2013 09: 55
    14
    comrades what is the argument ?? you take and disassemble the M16 and look what’s there, the amers have compromised from the storm trooper it turns out to be 80%, but talking about it is not customary! et not democratic !! not watered correctly !! and smacks of much extremism !!!
    1. postman
      postman 21 September 2013 12: 32
      +4
      Quote: vomag
      and look what’s there, the amers have compromised the assault from 80%, but it’s not customary to talk about it!

      well not 80%
      - “linear” layout with a pistol grip and a straight neck accommodating the recoil spring of the butt frame of the butt, previously used, in particular, by the Germans on the FG42 rifle and the StG44 assault rifle / assault rifle;
      -closing window for the ejection of sleeves of the shutter, like the StG44 and the M3 submachine gun.

      as well as from Russians, Swedes, French, Belgians, Americans themselves (AR-10,15
      and accepted, they say, not shy
  10. bunta
    bunta 21 September 2013 10: 00
    +4
    So, all the initial development of similar weapons in the USSR was based on the design principles laid down in the German models, and this, first of all, relates to the Kalashnikov assault rifle of the 1946 model of the year.

    I wonder where he is driving this.
    1. Bosk
      Bosk 21 September 2013 10: 31
      +2
      Well then, you can continue the logical chain ... let's say the Germans copied a lot of things from the Czechs ... well, off and on.
      1. self-propelled
        self-propelled 21 September 2013 11: 52
        +5
        Quote: Bosk
        Well then, you can continue the logical chain further

        take globally smile - how many shutter locking schemes are there? and how many models of small arms? it turns out the vast majority of weapons designers - simply unscrupulous plagiarists? what
        1. Uhe
          Uhe 21 September 2013 17: 42
          +3
          S-ss! Do not debunk the rumors, otherwise modern Russophobia’s blow is enough.

          It's like the case with the sword, which for a long time was passed off as a typical Scandinavian sword, and then they removed the patina and saw the name of the Slavic blacksmith there :))) And the second sword of this type was the same. Do you think anyone has admitted a mistake? They just immediately stopped yelling about the coolness of the Sven farmers, but no one said that the Slavs were superior to their northern neighbors even in blacksmithing, which is why their swords were bought even in Damascus, which the Arabs gladly mentioned in their "chronicles".
        2. Bosk
          Bosk 21 September 2013 19: 22
          +1
          In this sense, I’m interested in someone who sketched a diagram of a wedge-shaped castle .. (Chekhov, Chukhov or whatever it was, now too lazy to crawl through the links) the author of the gun seems to be like a 15th century eq. at the Museum of Artillery and Engineering Troops in Leningrad ...?
          1. avt
            avt 21 September 2013 21: 19
            +2
            Quote: Bosk
            In this sense, I’m interested in someone who sketched a diagram of a wedge-shaped castle .. (Chekhov, Chukhov or whatever it was, now too lazy to crawl through the links) the author of the gun seems to be like a 15th century eq. at the Museum of Artillery and Engineering Troops in Leningrad ...?

            Ah, is this the one that the "inventor" of the wedge gate Krupp wanted to buy? I heard about such a story, thank God it still stands in the museum in Kronwerk.
            Quote: Stas57
            I see "experts" have already appeared, claiming that the Kalash was made by Hugo, and the rest was propaganda.
            Poor people ....

            Actually, this is a very interesting vaccination of human beings when everything here is crooked and never was directly, no, and never will be. It is strange that like this until hoarseness they do not blame Mosin that he stole a rifle from Nagan.
            1. Black Colonel
              Black Colonel 23 September 2013 15: 15
              0
              And if you finally dig a little louder, it turns out that the Chinese did not invent gunpowder, there would be no such debate and foam at the mouth. Here are the beast-eyed beasts, yet they have pitted the intellectuals!
  11. Stas57
    Stas57 21 September 2013 10: 38
    +6
    I see "experts" have already appeared, claiming that the Kalash was made by Hugo, and the rest was propaganda.
    Poor people ....
    1. Serg 122
      Serg 122 21 September 2013 21: 00
      0
      That is not - the first best assault rifles were invented and made by natives of the Chechen Republic! Along with the invention of the wheel and the rubik's cube ... wassat
  12. Eugene
    Eugene 21 September 2013 11: 32
    +2
    At one time, I was surprised to learn that PD works on the principle of removal of powder gases ... When I held it in my hands.
    1. Black Colonel
      Black Colonel 23 September 2013 15: 32
      0
      Therefore, the experience of applying this principle of automation in the USSR was already before WWII.
  13. Gur
    Gur 21 September 2013 11: 54
    +3
    The article is good and it’s good that this weapon did not win
  14. avt
    avt 21 September 2013 12: 45
    +4
    Quote: Gur
    and it’s good that this weapon did not win

    Wow! But what was the enemy we had. Indeed, they began to rearm almost qualitatively, from small arms to jet aircraft and missiles, there were already a hundred pounds uranium bomb, well, maybe the one that didn’t fit into the carrier. So if they had not been cut off from oil and coal and had not been squeezed in Berlin, hell would know how it ended. They didn’t lose their command and control almost until April 45th.
    1. Bosk
      Bosk 21 September 2013 14: 30
      -1
      Well, it's a lie, because the whole color of the German nation was wiped out by the war in the first couple of years, and the most effective weapon, as we know, is man.
      1. avt
        avt 21 September 2013 15: 35
        +3
        Quote: Bosk
        Well, it's a lie, because the whole color of the German nation was wiped out by the war in the first couple of years, and the most effective weapon, as we know, is man.

        Uh no! Of course, the losses were not frail, especially in the second half of the war, when, according to the memoirs of veterans, everything turned upside down, we already did with them what they were in 41 with us. However, the military machine worked for them, but it went off with fuel, it was not for nothing that when they tried to counterstroke in Pomerania they ordered them to leave the damaged and broken cars draining the fuel. So, it’s not for nothing that the Supreme before giving a kick to the Romanian ass King Michael, awarded him with the Order of the Bhaals, well, ours were eager for Silesia not childishly.
    2. Uhe
      Uhe 21 September 2013 17: 44
      +2
      So the enemy was - all of Europe. Hitler-era Europe is the then version of the European Union. Hitler created the first European Union, in fact. He created, and we destroyed it :) Well, it’s our own fault. No FIG was to climb on us.
      1. Per se.
        Per se. 22 September 2013 22: 45
        +1
        Quote: Uhe
        Hitler-era Europe is the then version of the European Union.
        Well, then you need to remember Napoleon and the Roman Empire, when all of Europe was in the same hands. The fundamental difference is that the European Union, like NATO, are not violent associations. Who knows, perhaps modern Germany, the locomotive of the European Union, will revive its new Reich in an economic way.
        1. bunta
          bunta 22 September 2013 23: 00
          +1
          Quote: Per se.
          The fundamental difference is that the European Union, like NATO, are not violent associations.


          Under Hitler, they also did not particularly resist. And they even met Germans with flowers.
          1. Black Colonel
            Black Colonel 23 September 2013 15: 22
            0
            "... they greeted the Germans with flowers."
            There is a tolerant public - whoever comes, he will have flowers, otherwise he will be offended, even if he craps on his head, just to please him. This feeling of indignation in Russia (to put it mildly) arises when they rush in without a demand at the door (wild people, what to take from him?).
            1. Alex
              Alex 29 January 2014 19: 32
              0
              There is a tolerant public - whoever comes, flowers
              Add - and legs apart.
        2. Alex
          Alex 29 January 2014 19: 31
          +1
          Quote: Per se
          and the Roman Empire, when all of Europe was in the same hands.
          Well, I would not be in a hurry to record Southern Europe with Gaul and South Britain in "all of Europe". And North Africa and Asia Minor somehow do not fit well in this context. Here it is rather Tolkien's Middle-earth turns out.
      2. Alex
        Alex 29 January 2014 19: 28
        +1
        Quote: Uhe
        Hitler created the first EU
        Nah, second. The first was Napoleon, he also integrated everything. And with the same success. And also from Moscow it all began.
    3. Alex
      Alex 29 January 2014 19: 26
      +1
      Quote: avt
      one hundred pounds uranium bomb was already
      Yes, there was her, do not disgrace!
  15. Timeout
    Timeout 21 September 2013 13: 06
    +6
    Quote: Nayhas
    The Germans were quicker than others to discover the great opportunities inherent in a new type of weapon - namely, the German MP-43 / MP-44 / Stg-44 had a huge impact on the entire post-war development of a new class of small arms: assault rifles (machine guns), designed for "intermediate" cartridge
    If you look really, Schmeiser’s scheme after the war wasn’t used at all. Of course, if you do not take into account the Chinese alterations of the SCS under automatic fire. Take, for example, the Belgian FN FAL, but the automatic with a skewed shutter but completely lapped with the CBT. More then no one has used this principle of locking. Now all the assault rifles (assault rifles) are made according to the locking scheme for combat stops, regardless of the long or short stroke of the gas engine. The only hybrid is the Czech CZ Vz.58 here locking on a swinging larva like Walter P38 or Berretach. So the German developers did not have what was really used in the development of post-war weapons of weapons other than the Stg.45M company Mauser. Well, there are simply no similarities between the AK and the MP-43 except in the layout and use of automation based on the removal of gases through the transverse hole.
  16. yacht
    yacht 21 September 2013 16: 46
    +2
    Compare MP-43 and AK there is no sense whatsoever, even if they were very similar. So what? Many designers used ready-made spent units in their weapons, and at the same time somehow did not soar because of plagiarism.
    But the fact that Schmeisser, along with hundreds of leading specialists for more than one year, albeit forcedly, worked for the good of our Motherland is an indisputable fact. And I hardly imagine that these specialists worked somewhere as laborers, and did not develop weapons. I would have believed in the genius of Kalashnikov if Hugo Schmeisser had not been with him all these years. And so ... a wedding general was needed ... Kalashnikov was the best suited for this role.
    1. Aleksys2
      Aleksys2 21 September 2013 22: 09
      +3
      Quote: yacht
      But the fact that Schmeisser, along with hundreds of leading specialists for more than one year, albeit forcedly, worked for the good of our Motherland is an indisputable fact. And I hardly imagine that these specialists worked somewhere as laborers, and did not develop weapons.

      In October 1946, Hugo Schmeisser was forcibly (like all German specialists in all areas of military equipment without exception, who found themselves in the territory controlled by the USSR), was taken to the Soviet Union. Schmeiser with a large group of designers was sent to Izhevsk - one of the centers of the Soviet arms industry. The group worked in the weapons bureau of the Izhmash plant. German specialists arrived in Izhevsk at the end of October 1946.
      From the characteristics of foreign specialists at the department of the chief designer of the plant No. 74 (Izhevsk, 1949):
      Schmeiser Hugo Max Richard. He has no technical education. In the process of his work on projects, he proved himself as a practical designer. Refuses any design developments, citing the lack of special education and the inability to independently construct. It cannot be used at any works of the plant.

      Neither the StG or its predecessors, nor the AK, contained any fundamentally innovative elements of weapon design. The main technical solutions used in both samples — gas engines, shutter locking methods, trigger principles, and so on — were mostly known from the late XIX - early XX centuries due to the long experience in developing automatic rifles of the previous generation (under rifle machine gun cartridges); in particular, gas venting with turn-lock shutter was already used in the construction of the world's first Mexican self-loading rifle, Mexican Manuel Mondragon, developed in the 1880-s and entered service in the 1908 year.
      The novelty of these systems was the very concept of a weapon under the intermediate between a pistol and a rifle-machine gun cartridge and the successful creation of technology for its mass production, and in the case of AK, it was also brought to the level of reliability considered to be the standard for automatic weapons.
      The similar shape of the barrel, front sight and gas pipe is due to the use of a gas engine on both machines, which basically could not be directly borrowed by Kalashnikov from Schmeisser, since it was known long before that (moreover, the gas engine with the top location was first used on the Soviet ABC rifle). A gas engine with a gas piston fixed to the bolt frame was also not a novelty and was used long before that - for example, on the Degtyarev 1927 machine gun of the year.
    2. Day 11
      Day 11 22 September 2013 05: 22
      -8
      Yeah, and remember who young Kalashnikov was then (with all due respect to him)? You’re a half-educated kid (schoolboy)! But he’s a Komsomol! They made a legendary person out of him. The truth is, it will pop up someday. You all know when.
      1. Alex
        Alex 29 January 2014 19: 36
        0
        Quote: Den 11
        Yeah, and remember who then was the young Kalashnikov (with all due respect to him)? Dude, half-educated (school)!
        Your respect is strange ... Somehow it smells like a toilet.

        You can minus
        Thanks for the permission. I will take advantage. With pleasure.
  17. Bosk
    Bosk 21 September 2013 19: 29
    +2
    Quote: Uhe
    So the enemy was - all of Europe. Hitler-era Europe is the then version of the European Union. Hitler created the first European Union, in fact. He created, and we destroyed it :) Well, it’s our own fault. No FIG was to climb on us.

    Dear, everyone always crawls on someone, and do not compare the European Union with the Hitler Union, because the European Union is an unsuccessful attempt to copy the best from the Union, albeit with a bias in business ... well, and accordingly. And on the subject of "our own fault" - the last twenty years WE! are to blame for themselves!
  18. Zomanus
    Zomanus 21 September 2013 20: 09
    +2
    Pancake. Well, yes, everything seems to be. They took the idea. developed, finalized. And they got Kalash. That is, they did not copy stupidly, but took a general idea and based on it made their own. And maybe enough already engage in self-combat? This is only a campaign for the Russians when they are ready to bury themselves in the ground.
  19. Htuek
    Htuek 21 September 2013 20: 31
    +2
    I read komenty here and I want to ask a question to all those who are here Kalashnikov in wedding generals and writes Schmeiser in the main thing for AK puts. Tell me, wise men, what did they not think of in turn44 about the swing shutter, but they all rushed about with a warp thereof.
    You can reasonably answer on this issue.
  20. Droid
    Droid 21 September 2013 20: 41
    +2
    Quote: Nayhas
    But only after the alleged creation of Kalashnikov moved to Izhevsk and the production from Kovrov was transferred there.

    And did he pass field and military tests in 47-48 and was modified according to comments from the troops, the spirit of Hamlet's father?
  21. yacht
    yacht 21 September 2013 21: 31
    -4
    Quote: Htuek
    I read komenty here and I want to ask a question to all those who are here Kalashnikov in wedding generals and writes Schmeiser in the main thing for AK puts. Tell me, wise men, what did they not think of in turn44 about the swing shutter, but they all rushed about with a warp thereof.
    You can reasonably answer on this issue.


    If AK appeared in a commercial in 43, then yes it would be possible to compare with the MR and talk about "distortions", "zakosy" and other "turns", and so ... how many years Hugo with his specialists plowed in Union? Of course, you can believe in everything and even that after reading smart books it is possible to make a unique weapon, if you believe why not.
    By the way, I don’t really remember what Kalashnikov invented there, but I don’t remember anything besides various modifications of AK. I’ll make a reservation right away that, by and large, it doesn’t mean anything, it happens that in one lifetime a brilliant idea can flash a spark and that’s all ... the light of genius went out.
    By the way, nothing flawed in the fact that we used other people's achievements, such as in creating missile and nuclear weapons or, for example, in developing aviation, I personally do not see and do not suffer from a complex of patriotism.
    1. Uncle Serozha
      Uncle Serozha 21 September 2013 21: 47
      +1
      Quote: yacht
      By the way, I don’t really remember what Kalashnikov invented there, but I don’t remember anything besides various modifications of AK.

      At least a PC machine gun, which has become for many years a machine gun of a company (subsequently platoon) unit and the main tank machine gun.
      I will make a reservation right away, we are talking NOT about the PKK (Kalashnikov light machine gun), which is similar to an assault rifle, is designed for an intermediate cartridge with magazine feed and is a weapon of the infantry squad:
      Kalashnikov light machine gun (RPK)

      We are talking about a PC - a completely different system. This is a "heavy" machine gun chambered for a rifle cartridge with a belt feed. It is still the main platoon machine gun of our army, as well as its tank modification - PKT.
      Pc machine gun

      By the way, it is exported vigorously. Finns have just bought. Good machine, in a word.
      1. Nikoha.2010
        Nikoha.2010 29 January 2014 22: 20
        0
        Quote: Uncle Serezha
        We are talking about a PC - a completely different system. This is a "heavy" machine gun chambered for a rifle cartridge with a belt feed. It is still the main platoon machine gun of our army, as well as its tank modification - PKT.
        Pc machine gun

        By the way, it is exported vigorously. Finns have just bought. Good machine, in a word.


        And domestic cinema in general without nigo in any way ... laughing
    2. Eugene
      Eugene 22 September 2013 19: 21
      -1
      Sorry, but you were holding AK in your hands, are there some kind of distortions, turns? It seems not.
  22. crambol
    crambol 21 September 2013 23: 17
    0
    The article is interesting, but that's why it is not visible Head of the transport department the author? It’s not good to hide!
    I put a big plus!
  23. aleks77
    aleks77 22 September 2013 00: 39
    -5
    Quote: yacht
    Compare MP-43 and AK there is no sense whatsoever, even if they were very similar. So what? Many designers used ready-made spent units in their weapons, and at the same time somehow did not soar because of plagiarism.
    But the fact that Schmeisser, along with hundreds of leading specialists for more than one year, albeit forcedly, worked for the good of our Motherland is an indisputable fact. And I hardly imagine that these specialists worked somewhere as laborers, and did not develop weapons. I would have believed in the genius of Kalashnikov if Hugo Schmeisser had not been with him all these years. And so ... a wedding general was needed ... Kalashnikov was the best suited for this role.

    That's right, and the T-34 tank is called a Russian tank, although it can be seen by any sane person that this is a clumsy made soviet copy of the brilliant Christie tank
    1. Timeout
      Timeout 22 September 2013 09: 40
      +2

      And you call this sanctuary a genius? The Soviet government bought this chassis only because this concept could have further development, so the BT-2, BT-5, BT-7 and T-34 appeared, which practically have no similarities with their ancestor except the suspension scheme. So in Soviet tanks, apart from the concept, nothing was preserved. But apart from the Soviets, Kristi never bought his tank. The mattresses themselves bought his products only for testing ...
      1. svp67
        svp67 22 September 2013 10: 05
        0
        Well, you can argue in MUCH MUCH
        Quote: Timeout
        The Soviet government bought this chassis only because this concept could have further development, so the BT-2, BT-5, BT-7 and T-34 appeared, which practically have no similarities with their ancestor except the suspension scheme. So in Soviet tanks, apart from the concept, nothing was preserved.


        Is not it? BT2 is an exact copy of this machine, but with a conversion from "inch to millimeter", but in general, here's a photo let everyone draw their own conclusions

        This is Christie's tank


        This is BT2



        This is BT5




      2. svp67
        svp67 22 September 2013 10: 18
        0
        This is BT7 of different years of release.



        This is an experienced A20



        Experienced T32


        And T34




        And this is a "group" shot
      3. svp67
        svp67 22 September 2013 10: 25
        0
        Quote: Timeout
        But apart from the Soviets, Kristi never bought his tank. The mattresses themselves bought his products only for testing ...

        Here is a photo of Christie’s tanks in the US Army - you could say when conducting military tests.

        America was building a "big fleet", no one threatened them from land, so they could wait with the tanks ...
        But that no one bought anything ...
        Poland worked very fruitfully with Christy, which this tank 10TP can be a confirmation of
      4. aleks77
        aleks77 22 September 2013 10: 42
        +1
        My koment, was written with the aim of bringing cues to those who claim that they didn’t create anything for us, but they all stole the absurdity in the West.
        It is a pity that adequate people perceived him as indulging in these pro-earthly cries.
        1. Alex
          Alex 29 January 2014 20: 15
          +1
          aleks77, yo-mayo, do you even put emoticons, or something ... request
    2. Alex
      Alex 29 January 2014 20: 11
      +1
      Quote: aleks77
      That's right, and the T-34 tank is called a Russian tank, although it can be seen by any sane person that this is a clumsy made soviet copy of the brilliant Christie tank
      If it's a banter, then pretty dumb. But seriously, it’s just stupid. Even say anything about this in scrap.
  24. bunta
    bunta 22 September 2013 00: 40
    +3
    The original article began its journey back in 2009. The author remained unknown.



    http://calibr.ucoz.ru/publ/avtomaticheskoe_oruzhie/germanija/shturmovaja_vintovk
    a_avtomat_mkb_42hmaschinenkarabin_42_haenel_schmeiser/4-1-0-70


    http://soldierweapons.ru/newsi/new/500389-istoriya-vozniknoveniya-shturmo.html

    http://strelba.org/arm-books/istoriia-vozniknoveniia-shturmovoiy-vintovki-mr-43-
    shmaiyser-katalog-oruzhiia.htm

    http://rnns.ru/98335-istoriya-vozniknoveniya-shturmovoj-vintovki-mr-43.html
  25. The comment was deleted.
  26. -Dmitry-
    -Dmitry- 23 September 2013 08: 42
    0
    Hmm, what kind of brains do you need to have (or, on the contrary, not to have at all) to think that AK Kalashnikov "licked" Stg44?

    That's what the STG44 looks like, it's on the M16.
    Can Naihaz and other Western sneaks say, Walter SG42 with which rifle was licked? Panther from which tank?

    And so, for the reason above, everything has already been chewed.
  27. Alex
    Alex 29 January 2014 20: 19
    0
    The article is somehow muddy, admiration for the "gloomy Teutonic genius" can be seen without a magnifying glass. Some phrases "ingenious designer" are worth something. In general, nothing new is propaganda. With a double bottom (this is at the expense of "anticipating all ways of further development of automatic small arms around the world").
  28. doxtop
    doxtop 30 July 2014 17: 51
    0
    Quote: Nayhas
    And suddenly, Kalashnikov found an AK-47, excellent in design. Why's that?

    Everything is very simple ... of the three remaining designers, only Mikhail Timofeevich agrees to an almost complete redesign of the structure and ... in the end, he is right! ;)