Jutland Factors of controversial victory and implicit defeat

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The battle of Jutland with its results and consequences gave rise to fights among historians no less fierce than the famous battle of Grand Fleet and Hochzeeflot itself. Liters of ink and printing ink, enclosed in kilotons of paper, long ago exceeded the volumes of onboard volleys of both fleets. Who is the winner, and who is defeated, the causes of the losses and the admirals' miscalculations - these are the most superficial set of questions that have long been whitened with polished bones. And yet, the theme of the Battle of Jutland is not forgotten, even under the richest layer of naval battles of the Second World War, eclipsed in scope all previous battles. Both commanders congratulated their monarchs on their victory, the bravura articles in the German and the wrathful in the English press died down, the awards were distributed, and the condolences were brought. After all this, in both camps, anchor mines, torn by the storm, began to surface issues - explosive and inconvenient. Why did Jutland not become the second Trafalgar, and the spirit of Horatio Nelson bypassed the Iron Duke conning tower with his presence? Why did Jelliko try not to win the battle, but to prevent the Germans from winning it? How could Hochzeeflot slip out of the English grip: Sheer's art or his luck? The set of questions that are sometimes given are mutually exclusive answers.

Sea claws of the Prussian eagle

Jutland Factors of controversial victory and implicit defeat
Grand Admiral Alfred von Tirpitz, the creator of German sea power


The German Empire fell into the club of the great powers, smelling the powder of Metz and Sedan, directly from the Mirror Gallery of the Versailles Palace. The members of the old club were so crowded, and the newcomers, all the more so persistent, were not welcome. Germany developed rapidly, frankly frightening France and disturbing England. By the end of the 19th century, German colonies appeared on the world map - Germany was settling in Africa and penetrating into Asia. Replacing his reigning 99 days of the father, the liberal Frederick III, the new emperor Wilhelm II was brilliantly educated, harsh in judgment and saw the empire entrusted to him among the leaders of the world. And for this, according to the Kaiser, she had to get all the necessary attributes.

By the end of the XNUMXth century, Germany had the largest land army in Europe and, of course, well trained. She already had colonies in Africa, Asia, and the Pacific. The colonial component of the empire was compact and much more modest than the traditional leaders of overseas expansion - England and France. There was one more attribute necessary to maintain the status of a great power. The feasibility of the existence of this impressive burden in all respects was doubtful for some, but Kaiser's childhood, full of exhausting studies and exercises, developed his will, determination and obstinacy. "Honorary Admiral of English fleet”(Such a title was given to him by his grandmother, Queen Victoria), he wanted to make his country a great sea power, and therefore make it the owner of a powerful fleet. Germany was no longer happy to be just the holder of a pocket coastal "fleet" for the limited Baltic. The Kaiser's ambitions and his vision of the status of Germany on the world stage meant the need to build numerous naval forces capable of acting (as was supposed) in the ocean. On March 28, 1898, the First Maritime Law came into force, providing for the development of the fleet until 1907. Subsequently, it was supplemented and adjusted. Germany henceforth ceased to be a purely continental state, preoccupied only with its “land” policy - for the first time the ocean fell into its sphere of interests.

For a long time, the ground army was the basis and guarantee of state independence and security for Prussia, the heart of the German Empire. She was a subject of pride, admiration and reverence. She did not spare the time and money. Now a new component has been added to this ancient caste. Wilhelm II loved the sea and everything connected with it - sea cruises to the shores of Norway became an invariable attribute of the Hohenzollern family’s rest. Now the sea had to fall in love with all the other Germans. The schools conducted essays on the maritime theme, schoolchildren were taken to warships with excursions. Romanticism of distant overseas travels and visits to exotic countries was strongly fostered. Ocean was supposed to give the Germans a "start in life." Industrial Germany fulfilled the will of its ruler and gave him ships. A lot of ships. The inspirer of the German naval power, the future Gross-Admiral Tirpitz developed a detailed plan for the creation of naval forces, only slightly inferior to Great Britain. Despite family ties, the Kaiser feared that the "enlightened mariners" would not tolerate rivalry and in their calculations keep Germany on the sidelines. Wilhelm's ambition could not come to terms with this: he constantly insisted that his country deserved a respectful and honorable place under the sun. And he was ready to defend this opinion.


Caricature of the British Empire


Like the German army for Germany, the navy of Great Britain was the mainstay of its power, part of its culture and worldview. All, even the fact of its existence, England was obliged to its fleet. Well, still competent financial speculations about which honest gentlemen prefer not to speak out loud. Repeatedly the continent rose against the proud core. The Emperor Philip II sent curses towards Foggy Albion, delicately chirping the Bourbons, gazing thoughtfully out from under his famous triangle Napoleon. And the island remained unattainable and invincible. The fleets sent to its shores were destroyed by brave admirals and finished off storms and storms. The economies of the rival countries fell from the pressure of inflation and the shortage of goods, the rulers lived their lives on a secluded island or died from an apoplexy strike in the form of a silk officer's scarf. British sea power was regarded as something unshakable and permanent, to defy what is, at least, expensive and irrational, for the most part - simply stupid. Since the time of Napoleon, no one dared to challenge the primacy of Britain in the naval business - France, under the nephew of the great Emperor, squandered her strength in constant wars and colonial adventures, Russia went through a difficult period of reforms of Alexander II. The strength of the British fleet was not only in its multiplicity. It was staffed by experienced sailors and had a large number of naval bases and coal stations.

And then the door of the sea club suddenly opened, and unexpectedly and, according to island gentlemen, a new member impolitely swiftly entered. Relying on its colossal industrial power and a dynamically developing economy, which in some places has already overtaken the British, Germany, in a relatively short period of time, a little more than 20 years, received the second largest fleet in the world. The island was again challenged, and far more dangerous than in the days of the “little Corsican”. But having received such power in hands, one must also be able to use it, clearly understand why and in what amounts it is needed. Germany had ships, but did not have long maritime traditions. Her thinking remained continental, because the main enemies and rivals were on land. Nevertheless, England had a potential enemy and rival at sea, whose strength and boldness were dangerous to underestimate. The young Fleet of the open sea was breathing in the back of the head of the respectable Great Fleet.

Nobody wanted war. War was inevitable

Both opponents met a world battle with unfinished shipbuilding programs. The German fleet consisted of 15 dreadnoughts, 4 battlecruisers and 22 battleships, which were also formally considered to be battleships by classification. Until the end of 1914, it was replenished with two dreadnoughts of the type “König” (“Markgraf” and “Kronprinz”) and the battle cruiser “Derflinger”. In 1915, the XnUMX reconnaissance group joined the ranks of Lutzov. Significantly for 1, the German linear fleet did not increase: 1916 dreadnoughts of the Bayer type were built, equipped with 4-mm artillery of the main caliber, and the readiness of the first two, Bayern and Baden, was expected in the second half of the 380. The end of construction of the Hindenburg cruiser was planned for 1916. In 1917, the construction of four Mackensen-type battlecruisers equipped with 1915-mm artillery began - their entry into service was scheduled for the autumn of 356. At the disposal of the Germans was the remaining unfinished dreadnought Salamias, commissioned by Greece, but it was not intended to be put into operation.

By the beginning of the war, the British fleet had 20 dreadnoughts, 9 battleships and 41 battleships built 1894 – 1906. In August, 1914, the United Kingdom, requisitioned two battleships under construction (Edgincourt and Erin). Until the end of 1914, two ships of the Iron Duke type (Benbow and Emperor of India) and the battle cruiser Tiger entered service. By the time of the Battle of Jutland, the British fleet was significantly strengthened by completing the construction of the five newest superdreadnoughts, such as Queen Elizabeth, equipped with 381-mm artillery, two battleships of the Rivendzh type, and Almirante Latorre’s requisitioned order of the Chilean government, renamed “Canada”, renamed “Canada” The large and high-speed Rypals and Rinaun battlecruisers, built under the impression of the battle near the Falkland Islands, clearly did not have time to battle for the battle.

Fundamental to the German concept of war at sea was a plan for leveling forces, according to which it was necessary to reduce the advantage of the Grand Fleet in linear forces through successful actions of surface ships and submarines, so that later with the least risk to join with him in battle, having significant chances for success . In the interests of the English fleet, on the contrary, it was to impose a general battle, and the sooner the better, relying on their numerical superiority. Two years of war passed under the siege of Grand Fleet on German shores and bases. The British more often than their opponents went to sea, often penetrating far to the south, but the Germans managed to avoid a decisive clash. 16 December 1914, in the next campaign of German battlecruisers to the shores of Britain, Hochseeflot commander Admiral Ingenol had an excellent opportunity to attack and destroy part of the British forces, but in poor visibility the opponents missed each other. No more such a chance will be presented to the Germans during the whole war In 1915, Mr. Beatty was able to pat, but still let Hipper have Dogger-Banks leave. The German battleships were more in bases, and at the very top began to wonder: what does the fleet do? And the fleet at the beginning of 1916 had a new commander - Reinhard Scheer, nicknamed by subordinates for strict adherence to the most strict canons of discipline "man in the iron mask".

Periodic shelling by the German battlecruisers of the English coast has already begun to stir up the public, and the command of the Grand Fleet had to do something. In April, Lowestoft was shot at 1916, and this event only gave the British more motivation. It was supposed to send their light cruisers to Horns Reef, and then through the Kattegat to the Great Belt. This appetizing decoy duck was preparing, if not for the whole of Hochzeeflot, then, in any case, for the “Hipper gangsters”. Behind the backs of the light cruisers would lay in ambush the whole line fleet. However, at the same time, Scheer was developing his own operation, the purpose of which was to lure the British battlecruisers under the blow of his main forces. The plan provided for the shelling of the 1 th reconnaissance group of Sunderland, the nearest port from Rosyth, where the British battle cruisers were based. The calculation was made on the fact that the British will certainly go into the sea and rush in pursuit. Hipper will lure Admiral Beatty, who is carried away by the chase, and will bring him under the blow of the entire German fleet. In the event of adverse weather conditions, there was a second version of the plan: to send German battlecruisers to Skagerrak and the coasts of Norway, hoping that the British would decide to investigate the situation with part of their forces, and this part could also be destroyed. The result of this mutual set of decisions and actions was the battle of Jutland. A lot of minor and not so much factors influenced its course and results.

Intelligence service


Reinhard Scheer, Commander of the High Seas Fleet in the Battle of Jutland


Reinhard Scheer had 16 dreadnoughts at his disposal (all cash except for repairing König Albert, and Bayern had not yet reached the required level of readiness), 6 battleships, 5 battlecruisers, 11 light cruisers and 61 esmesems The Germans started a large-scale submarine war temporarily stopped because of the frequent protests of neutral countries, which allowed us to allocate submarines for the 16 operation - they had to be on duty at British bases and report on enemy movements. The air component was 10 airships - for long-distance reconnaissance.
Already 25 in May, the British Intelligence Directorate (in particular, the notorious 40 Room) recorded an increased activity of the German radio. Outcrops of submarines that used to announce their arrival to the position with a radiogram were noted. May 30 from the decrypted messages to the British Admiralty was aware that the enemy is starting up some major operation, which was immediately notified the command of the Navy. The British assumed that in any case a part of Hochzeeflot was preparing to leave. Bad weather did not allow Scheer to use his zeppelins. However, the Engandain airplanes, which were at the disposal of the British, were also of little use. The submarines could not detect the Grand Fleet’s launch into the sea in time and confined themselves to several contradictory reports: the discovery of individual ships. Thus, at the primary stage, the British were convinced that there is a high probability that the 1 th Hipp reconnaissance group would emerge, or even larger forces, but the call sign of the German flagship, the battleship Friedrich der Grosse, was broadcast by a radio station from Wilhelmshaven, and this simple trick misled the 40 Room. Jellico was sure that he was to deal only with part of the enemy’s fleet. As for Scheer, he learned that he was dealing with everything Grand Fleet, only directly confronted with him. The British ciphers were not read by the Germans.

Weather

The tangible impact on the course and the results of the battle had weather conditions. First of all, they deprived the Germans of the ability to conduct aerial reconnaissance. Although unfavorable weather to some extent played into the hands of the Germans, since clarity and good visibility are not beneficial to the side who wants to avoid fighting. In this case, it was Scheer. In the battle battle phase of the battlecruisers, by the time 17 was out, according to Admiral Beatty, the silhouettes of his ships stood out well on the western side of the horizon, while the German formation was hidden by fog. By the time the main forces entered the battle, the sea was calm, a gentle wind was blowing, but the sky was overcast. Reports by British flagships indicate that after 18 hours, visibility did not exceed 60 cable. Although there were time gaps when it was possible to see something at a distance of about 80 cable. Due to these conditions, even Jellico did not have reliable data not only about the exact composition of the enemy’s forces (40’s room only warned about Scheer's exit and direction of movement), but also about her own losses. So, in the morning of June 1, he asked for signals about the whereabouts of Indefatigebla, which had long since sunk in the first stage of the battle. Of course, weather factors can not be attributed to the decisive, but they, no doubt, had an impact on the events of May 31 - June 1.

The technical side

The most controversial aspect that has overgrown with its mythology and legendary. Of course, the British had quantitative superiority over their adversary: ​​under the flag of Jellico, there were 28 dreadnoughts, 9 battlecruisers, 8 armored cruisers, 26 light cruisers and 79 destroyers. The indisputable advantage of the British side is the presence in the 7 formation of the newest battleships of the type "Queen Elizabeth" and "Rivendzh", equipped with 381-mm artillery. The nomenclature of the main caliber of the British fleet consisted of 305, 343, 356 and 381 mm. The Germans opposed this 280 and 305 mm, respectively.

However, it would be too rash to compare only calibers. The shells of German guns in general showed more successful results - their fuses had a time delay, but the British did not. This allowed the German shells in most cases to explode after penetration of armor. English projectiles often split when hit, with detonation of Liddite stuffed in them. Or there was an undermining at the time of penetration of armor due to the zero delay of the fuse. Admiral Jellico, directing the artillery department in the Admiralty, worked on the creation of armor-piercing shells, effective at large angles of incidence at great distances, but his departure slowed down these works. And the English fleet went to the Battle of Jutland with less high-quality projectiles than his opponent.

More perfect were the designs of the German powder charges. The main charge was in the sleeve, the auxiliary - in the silk cap, but did not have a flammable charge. The only flammable charge was at the end of the main charge at the bottom of the sleeve. The English charges consisted of four parts, which were in a silk cap, and had igniting charges of black powder. Thus, the risk of fire in the British cellars of the main caliber was much higher, in addition, German gunpowder varieties were less susceptible to decomposition. The British guns in general had a greater range than the German ones, due to the greater angle of elevation. 343- and 381-mm guns could rise to 20 degrees, which ensured a range of up to 21 thousand meters. German 305-mm guns had a trunk lift angle up to 13,5 degrees and had a range of 17 – 19 km, with the exception of the Prince Regent Luitpold dreadnought, which was at the level of 16 degrees, it could send projectiles to the 20,5 km distance.

The Germans drew the proper conclusions from the Battle of Dogger Bank and took measures to improve the systems of flooding the cellars. The total flooding of the cellar on the German ship took 15 minutes - in English around 30. The British considered the rate of fire of their guns to be insufficient, therefore, on the battlecruisers and some battleships, the charges taken out of the protective covers were prepared in advance. To speed up the supply to the towers, fire doors were kept open between the turret area and the reloading compartment. No less than the 9 towers of the main caliber of the German battlecruisers were smashed by enemy shells, but none of them exploded.

In Hoehseeflot dreadnoughts, more attention was paid to protection: their hulls were divided into a large number of watertight compartments. For example, the largest German battleships had 6 boiler rooms, while their British opponents no more than three. The desire to maximize armor protection forced the Germans to place on their ships less heavy artillery. Their speed was lower than that of the British, the height of the freeboard was also relatively low, which did not always have a positive effect on the seafaring qualities of the German battleships and battle cruisers. Just look at the photos of the deep-burrowing Derflinger or Moltke at full speed. It is believed that the German armor of the Krupp concern was the best in the world. However, the post-war tests of the dreadnought Baden as a trophy showed that it was still inferior to the British armor of the Vikkers firm, which surpassed the German one by 10 – 15%. But the German ships were armored more rationally, and besides, on the day of the battle of Jutland, the British did not generally shoot very well, especially the battle cruisers Beatty.

A few words should be said about light forces. By the year 1916, the Germans had some need for modern light cruisers (turbines, starting with the type "Magdeburg"). Germany suffered significant losses in this class of ships at the initial stage of the war and now felt a shortage of them. The construction of a large-scale series of Konigsberg ships was still ongoing, but not a single cruiser in this series managed to take part in the Battle of Jutland. Most German light cruisers were re-equipped with 105-mm guns to more familiar 150-mm. A similar rearmament was carried out by German destroyers - a clearly insufficient caliber 88 mm for them was replaced by 105 mm. These guns were much better than the 102-mm guns mounted on the English destroyers — they were lighter and had a greater angle of elevation. However, the German destroyers were generally smaller than the British, had a lower freeboard and were inferior to their opponents in seaworthiness and cruising range. In the structure of the German light forces there were no destroyer leader class ships.

Summing up the very brief and superficial analysis of both fleets, it can be concluded that each side had its own strengths and weaknesses. There were more British ships, among them were battleships equipped with 343- and 381-mm artillery. The total number of trunks caliber 280 mm and above was calculated 344 from the British and 244 from their opponents. The weight of the onboard volley was related in terms of the 2,5 to the 1, also in favor of the Grand Fleet. German ships had better quality shells and more rational protection, but their navigability was lower and their speed lower.

Tactical decisions


Commander of the Big Fleet, Admiral Jellico


The age of sails is long gone, but the British and Germans still practiced fighting in the wake of the wake. Both commanders generally acted within the framework of the canons of the era. In the first phase of the battle, Admiral Beatty, commander of the battlecruisers, assigned the 5 squadron of high-speed battleships (all of the newest with 381-mm artillery) assigned to him in 5 miles behind him. When the flagship Lyon sent a signal to turn on the enemy, the battleship Barham under the flag of Evan-Thomas simply did not notice this order. The battleship commander tried to convince the squadron commander to follow Beatty, but he did not want to act "without an order." Only after 7 minutes, after the Lyon tapped the follow-up order with a searchlight, did Evan-Thomas begin to make an evolution, as a result he was lagging behind the battlecruisers by almost 10 miles 10. Neither Beatty nor Evan-Thomas, unlike, for example, Hipper, who reported on the battle with battlecruisers and battleships, did not bother to tell Jellico about the detection and approximate location of the German fleet. Only in 16.45, after almost two hours of battle, the English commander finds out that he is dealing not only with Hipper ships, but that the Open Sea Fleet is moving towards him.

In the actions of the German side, there were also miscalculations. In general, Scheer learned that the Grand Fleet was not in bases, but at sea, at about 18.30, when he was informed of the results of the interrogation of prisoners from English destroyers. A lot of criticism is caused by his maneuver in 18.55, when the entire German fleet turned 180 degrees and went to meet the main forces of the British, practically performing the classic "crossing T" for them. But after only half an hour before this very successful maneuver, having turned all his strength for the first time, Scheer, it would seem, managed to start a breakaway from his formidable opponent, hiding in the fog. The German commander explained his sudden "return" rather indistinctly enough: they said he wanted to help the light cruiser Wiesbaden, which was almost immobilized and suffering from fires. As a result, Scheer was then forced to order the battlecruisers to “attack, regardless of loss”, in order to withdraw their battleships from under the blow.

Interesting events took place during the night pursuit phase. Around 21.40, the German light cruisers of the 4 reconnaissance group witnessed how flagship Beatty "Lion" requested the short calls of the line cruiser "Princess Royal" for the current day, because "its own signal book was destroyed." He responded by transmitting data with a light signal. So the German fleet became known English secret callsigns.

During the night of the fight Jellico did not know that the German fleet was literally taking him astern, and he could have found out. The fact is that the Marlboro battleship damaged by a torpedo during a day battle lowered the course, and the 5-I squadron of the high-speed battleships Evan-Thomas following it did not know anything about it and also reduced the course, thus lagging behind the main forces. Westfalen and other dreadnoughts of Scheer were identified in 23.40 from one of its ships, the battleship Malaya, but the commander of Malaya did not dare to open fire without the admiral’s orders. Moreover, not to find himself, he forbade the use of radio. The Germans were free. The Moltke cruiser, having strayed off course, passed through the darkness through the formation of Jellico's dreadnoughts and was definitely identified from the Danderer dreadnought. However, his commander considered it unnecessary to open fire in order "not to indicate to the enemy the location of his linear forces."

Similar night adventures have fallen to the lot of heavily damaged "Seidlitz". Around midnight, he was identified with Marlboro, and Rivervenge even requested a call sign. Having received the wrong answer, the British did nothing. Edgincourt did not say anything, from which they also noticed a heavily damaged battlecruiser, but decided "not to betray their position." Light cruisers who accompanied the British battleships, seeing that their commanders were doing nothing, limited themselves to observation. In the morning, “Seidlits” crawled to Horns Reef with a 7-knot junction. Jelliko was seriously preparing for a new day battle, until 3 hours 30 minutes received a radiogram that the German fleet had already approached its bases. New Trafalgar frankly failed.

Who left the sea

The main result of the Battle of Jutland was that already after 48 hours, Jellico could bring no less than 25 dreadnoughts into the sea, not counting ships of other classes. The German fleet, although it felt almost like a winner, sinking the 3 of the English battlecruisers, could not make a new exit due to too much damage. The English fleet lost, as already mentioned, the 3 battlecruisers, the 3 armored cruisers and the 8 destroyers. Scheer lost the battleship Lutzov next to the base, the old battleship Pommern, the 4 light cruiser and the 5 destroyers, which had sunk from damage received. German ships received a total of 120 hits, the British - 124. The percentage of hits per gun is in favor of the Open Sea Fleet.

The Germans, despite the joy of large losses from the enemy, made sure that in open battle, the domination of the sea from Britain did not pull out. Other methods were needed, in particular, an unrestricted submarine war, which, on the one hand, almost brought England to its knees, on the other, gave a weighty reason for the United States to enter the war, which could not allow Germany to win. Disputes about the true winners and losers, unrealized opportunities and missed chances of both sides still abate. However, knowing the outcome of the First World War, it is safe to say that in the end both sides actually lost. The German fleet was destroyed by self-sinking at Scapa Flow, its remnants distributed and sold out. The once mighty Grand Fleet, entangled by America imposed by a system of contractual agreements, has been reduced by several orders, making it now the leading maritime power of the United States.
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  1. +13
    6 June 2016 07: 47
    In disputes about the reasons for the unsuccessful actions of both fleets in the Battle of Jutland, many spears have already been broken and probably the same number will be broken. The British, having invested huge amounts of money in the construction and maintenance of their Grand Fleet, quite rightly expected him to actively destroy my enemy - Hochseeflotte. Such a chance turned up for the British at Jutland, but Jelikko, together with Beatty and Evan-Thomas (commander of the 5th battleship squadron, which included the latest and most powerful superdreadnoughts of the Queen Elizabeth type with 15-inch artillery) missed this chance. The Germans, who also invested a lot in the creation of their battlecruisers, were never able to destroy the high-speed vanguard of the Grand Fleet in that battle (which Scheer and Hipper were aiming at) - but the German battleships, unlike their battlecruisers, showed disgusting artillery skill with low shooting accuracy (as well as their British counterparts).
    Why didn’t the Germans win this battle - and they didn’t set themselves the task of defeating the Grand Fleet in an open battle - the inequality of power was too monstrous. The Germans did what they could - managed to escape from the trap into which they drove themselves. The mists, usual for those latitudes, and the quickly approaching dark time of the day helped them in this. But they left the battlefield (if we can talk about the sea like that) behind the enemy and, moreover, the Hochseeflotte, having suffered less losses in the battle itself, weakened as a result much more than the British fleet.
    The British were over-guarded by Jelliko, who did not want to risk his dreadnoughts in a night battle, the same fog, and the same darkness that came early too - there was too little daylight from the moment of mutual detection by linear fleets for the British to plant their much weaker opponents enough steel and explosives to drown them. The British admirals were led blindly following the traditions and Combat instructions, which represented a battle between line squadrons as an artillery duel of two wake columns of enemy fleets.
    In principle, all this has already been written and spoken more than once.
  2. +6
    6 June 2016 08: 07
    I will say one thing - the battle of Jutland showed the superiority of the German ships in concept and constructive solutions, they were more balanced and tenacious. In addition, the Germans turned out to be excellent sailors, although they did not have such long and glorious traditions as the British. In addition, they once again proved that they are perhaps the best fighters in Europe, and by the way, they just had long and glorious traditions.
    1. +2
      6 June 2016 08: 11
      And why was the German concept so good if the Germans had no chance to win and what did the Germans show themselves to be the best fighters in?
      1. avt
        +3
        6 June 2016 09: 19
        Quote: Cartalon
        And why was the German concept so good if the Germans had no chance to win?

        In fact, despite
        that after 48 hours, Jellico could put at least 25 dreadnoughts into the sea, not counting ships of other classes.
        In the classic confrontation, well, in the understanding of most of the admirals of that time, the shaved did not have a single chance to win.
        Quote: Cartalon
        and what did the Germans show themselves to be the best fighters in?

        At least on account of those same battleships sunk, and the quality was on the side of the Germans - they sank with a smaller caliber. So Tirpitz's legacy was fulfilled - they created reliable platforms for quite high-quality barrels. Another thing is that in the strategic plan, the expected effect was given by other ships, but this is a different story and completely different factors influencing the development of the same submarine war, both objective ones that completely depend on the level of technology development and understanding of problem solving, and subjective according to the principle “generals are always preparing for the last war”.
        1. +1
          6 June 2016 10: 07
          Quote: avt
          At least on the account of the very battleships sunk, and the quality was on the side of the Germans - drowned with a smaller caliber

          And how many battleships did the Germans sink? They couldn’t even realize a great chance - when the 5th GF squadron rolled out over the entire HZF ... rolled out - and left without losses.
          Quote: avt
          In the classic confrontation, well, in the understanding of most of the admirals of that time, the shaved did not have a single chance to win.

          Wow, we would have given them if they had caught up with us. smile
          In the classic confrontation HZF, when meeting with the GF, over and over again performed the "101st tactical technique" - a turn, retreat and separation. Yes, in such conditions GF had no chance to win.
    2. -1
      6 June 2016 11: 35
      I will say one thing - the battle of Jutland showed the superiority of the German ships in concept and constructive solutions, they were more balanced and tenacious.

      It would be better to keep silent ....

      The Germans built their LCs for battle in the North Sea. While the British ships are for the ocean, for battle anywhere.
      As a result, the German LKs were "overcrowded": the living conditions on them were of little use for campaigns so much that in the harbors the teams lived in barracks on the shore.

      It is clear that such a "re-squeezing" made it possible to use weight and space for something else. But the Germans did not manage to do this in full - their reduced autonomy and much worse living conditions did not bring the expected prizes.

      In addition, the Germans turned out to be excellent sailors, although they did not have such long and glorious traditions as the British.

      A day at sea - and already "sailors"?

      In addition, they once again proved that they are perhaps the best fighters in Europe, and by the way, they just had long and glorious traditions.

      Fanfare and fanfare began.
      Couldn't these supermen fly? Or is there through the walls?
    3. +2
      6 June 2016 19: 31
      How much love for Germans is in you)
  3. +3
    6 June 2016 08: 07
    The article is good, but it would be possible to refer to A. Patients because all the material was taken from him.
    1. +2
      6 June 2016 11: 41
      The article is good, but it would be possible to refer to A. Patients because all the material was taken from him.


      What's "good"? Quite a lot of absurdities ...
      Laziness to understand the details, but Germanophilia is noticeable.

      I do not mean that Germanophilia should be replaced by Anglophilia - it would just be more objective.

      Well, on the topic: they removed Jellico from the command of the Global Fund - they really removed him with an increase, but in order not to recognize his actual failure: he failed to destroy it.
  4. +7
    6 June 2016 08: 13
    Jutland showed that having riveted the keels, they could not provide clear control of such armads and, in general, reduced the general battle to a banal dump. They acted as best they could, but ... Danila didn’t have a stone flower ... It wasn’t reasonable to compete with Britain in the number of keels, at least on land and in the submarine fleet the spent money would be more useful. Jewish bankers defeated the war, who were able to help the German, Russian, Austro-Hungarian, and Ottoman empires self-destruct. The war bleeding and fragmenting Europe, created a group of weak and easily controlled from outside states such as Czechoslovakia, Poland, Finland, the Baltic dwarfs. As Foch said, this is not peace, it is a truce for 20 years.
  5. +2
    6 June 2016 08: 16
    Denis usually also colorfully describes the course of the sea battles, and here he avoided it. Sorry, sorry ...
    1. +2
      6 June 2016 08: 55
      Join.
      It is always nice to read a person who is well versed in the topic and knows how to express his knowledge in an interesting and vivid way. Denis, please write about the course of the battle itself. :-)
    2. The comment was deleted.
    3. +5
      6 June 2016 09: 01
      Quote: sibiryak10
      Denis usually also colorfully describes the course of the sea battles, and here he avoided it. Sorry, sorry ...

      Thank you, dear colleague for the compliment, however, I thought that the description of the battle would not be very interesting to readers, since this is one of the most described naval battles, but it turned out to be right.))) I specifically tried to focus on the factors that influenced the outcome of this battle. Nothing, in front of many sea battles and already somehow, but I will try.
  6. +6
    6 June 2016 08: 42
    How sparingly. I understand that the topic is hackneyed, but I think a lot more people know about the Jutland fight firsthand. And here the 100th anniversary (already past) is marked by just a couple of articles.
    Nice animation, but damn it all in English ...
  7. +3
    6 June 2016 09: 09
    Quote: Cartalon
    but to refer to A. Patients could be for all the material taken from him

    Dear colleague, in the article I relied on such works - Wilson "Battleships in battle", Scheer "The German fleet in the World War", Harper "The Truth about the Battle of Jutland", Khaza "Not a Derflinger in the Battle of Jutland", Puzyrevsky "Combat damage to ships in Battle of Jutland ", Corbet" Operations of the British Navy in the First World War. Well, of course, a number of reference books.
    1. -2
      6 June 2016 12: 09
      "Plombirator" is lying and does not blush. "leaned" .......
  8. +2
    6 June 2016 09: 19
    At the time of Nelson and Suvorov, victory depended mainly on the quality and training of a soldier. And a competent commander, proceeding from them, betrayed his theory in practice. And with the increasing complexity of technology, so many components appeared that it was no longer possible to ideally fight, as in the good old days. That Tsushima, that Jutland - everything is at the lottery level, who will have more pluses than minuses, he won.
    1. 0
      6 June 2016 11: 44
      That Tsushima, that Jutland - everything is at the lottery level, who will have more pluses than minuses, he won.


      However, Jellico let the Germans leave.
      And he should not give.

      And Betty turned around illiterately, knocking down the LMS: they did not keep up with the LMS for Betty's "maneuvers".
      Betty's crews left the doors open

      Well, etc.
    2. +4
      6 June 2016 17: 13
      Neither Tsushima nor Jutland were lotteries. Their outcome was
      predetermined by the sum of technical components and crew training.
      Of course, there could be more loss to the Japanese and less to the Russians under Tsushima,
      or even more with the British under Jutland, but the overall result
      - victory under Tsushima or victory-draw under Jutland - would be the same.
    3. The comment was deleted.
  9. +4
    6 June 2016 09: 25
    Quote: Leto
    I understand that the topic is battered, but I think many more people know about the battle of Jutland by hearsay

    Well, it's us (and you, I think, too wink ) in their youth with friends, reading "Marine Collection" discussed how many shells GK had absorbed in "Seydlitz". Today's guys are no less happy to discuss new modifications of "Iphone" and the intricacies of the "Call of Duty" multiplayer. There are pleasant exceptions though.
    1. +4
      6 June 2016 15: 16
      I agree!!! After all ... before the sky was brighter, sugar was sweeter and the penis was longer ... And now seriously, it seems to me that there are not very many people like you and me at all times. But We are and will be.
  10. +2
    6 June 2016 09: 27
    Denis, thanks for the excellent article (in other matters, as always good )
  11. +1
    6 June 2016 09: 34
    Thank you, Denis .. a little differently approached this topic .. And it turned out .. good
  12. +5
    6 June 2016 10: 00
    The battle of Jutland was lost by the Germans even before it began. Germany actively participating in the Dreadnought race was not able to more or less seriously catch up with Britain. Why? Because the shipbuilding capabilities of the islanders are much more powerful than the German. Yes, the German battleships and cruisers were perhaps more advanced than the British, but the Germans were always losing quantitatively and most importantly they lacked the experience of operating and combat use of large surface ships that the British traditionally had.
    The Kaiser fleet did not fulfill any of the strategic goals for which it was actually being created - parity with the Grand Fleet was not achieved, communications and colonies were not protected, and reliable cover for a possible Kaiser army invasion of the island was not provided.
    The Germans were traditionally strong on land and therefore at sea it was not necessary to meddle far from their shores and adhere exclusively to a dead defense strategy.
    Plus, not only was Britain the Empire No. 1 in the world at that time, the Britons always had a powerful ally overseas, always helping them explicitly or implicitly. The Germans could not boast of such - their allies were always more of a burden to them than help - especially with regard to naval operations.
    In general, it is very strange what the Kaiser admirals expected on the eve of the 1st World War? And the hedgehog understands that in the event of a serious threat to Albion (for example, the German landing on the British Isles), the Kaiser fleet would have to deal with the combined Anglo-American Navy? The prospects for such a confrontation are very sad for Germany.
    Зwhy then build so many battleships and cruisers? It is completely incomprehensible. In general, the Dreadnought race is a vivid example of a false strategy that was imposed by the sea powers on the land powers. And as a result of this race, it turned out what should have happened - the land powers and the fleet did not build a decent one and lost the war and squandered huge funds.
    As one of the German higher ranks said after the end of the 1st World War - "When the battleships were put on the gramophone needles, they became more useless !!!"
    1. +1
      6 June 2016 19: 35
      Quote: Selevc
      Yes, German battleships and cruisers were perhaps more advanced than British

      This is if sooo love Germans.
      In reality, none of the German participants in the battle could compare with Iron Duke, R-s and the 5th squadron.
  13. +1
    6 June 2016 10: 40
    I also want to say that the concept of the battleship sat deep in the minds of a whole generation of state and technical elites of the late 19th and early 20th centuries. A huge invulnerable monster spewing fire and death rushing across the battlefield and like a ram crushing enemy ranks. In addition to naval battleships, there were land battleships and air battleships (tanks, airships and airplanes). Then they caught on and realized the fallacy of this strategy - in practice, these monsters are too slow, expensive to manufacture and operate, slow and vulnerable to enemy fire.

    The crown of this battleship madness is the sinking of German Bismarck. The huge steel monster was dealt a deadly bite by small plywood biplanes. And marine titanium turned into a poorly managed trough that was quickly sunk. Once again, David defeated Goliath ...
    But mankind has always invented superweapons - and in the pre-atomic era they were Drendouts ... And the property of gigantomania is probably indestructible in homo sapiens ...
    1. +2
      6 June 2016 11: 36
      Quote: Selevc
      The crown of this battleship madness is the sinking of German Bismarck. The huge steel monster was dealt a deadly bite by small plywood biplanes. And marine titanium turned into a poorly managed trough that was quickly sunk. Once again, David defeated Goliath ...

      But to set the final point in the fate of the sea titan, 2 other sea titans were required. And if Tovey had not dared to be left without fuel, but to intercept the "Chancellor" - "Bismarck" would have gone to Brest.

      In general, the British worked in full accordance with the pre-war tactics: since most British LCs are inferior in speed to the enemy's LCs, then the enemy must be slowed down. Therefore, AB will work together with the LC, which must find and "hobble" the enemy. And only then "relatives" or "queens" slowly descend from the mountain... smile
      1. 0
        6 June 2016 15: 25
        Quote: Alexey RA
        But to set the final point in the fate of the sea titan, 2 other sea titans were required. And if Tovey had not dared to be left without fuel, but to intercept the "Chancellor" - "Bismarck" would have gone to Brest.

        What is the use of building a huge vessel, armored and stuffed with large calibers, if it is vulnerable? - for example, the same Bismarck with a damaged steering gear has simply turned into a huge pile of metal. Having lost the ability to maneuver the battleship with jammed rudders, he simply began to describe huge circulations.
        As the experience of the 2nd world battleships without covering their aircraft showed, they are very vulnerable even to such primitive aircraft as the English Swordfish.
        Gigantomania is an absolutely dead end path for the development of weapons - whether it be a battleship, an airplane, an airship or a gun.
        1. +1
          6 June 2016 15: 54
          Quote: Selevc
          What is the use of building a huge vessel, armored and stuffed with large calibers, if it is vulnerable? - for example, the same Bismarck with a damaged steering gear has simply turned into a huge pile of metal. Having lost the ability to maneuver the battleship with jammed rudders, he simply began to describe huge circulations.

          You yourself answered your question.
          Quote: Selevc
          As the experience of the 2nd world battleships without covering their aircraft showed, they are very vulnerable even to such primitive aircraft as the English Swordfish.

          The problem was not that the Bismarck was vulnerable — any ship was vulnerable. The problem was that the air defense missile was incomplete. in one person sent to the zone where 2 ABs worked. And then, the British were extremely lucky that the "string bags" in the last attack at twilight achieved the only hit in a critically vulnerable point.
          But they might not have gotten there. Or worse, drown your Sheffield.
          Or the Germans could spit on the Soviet order and staff first his LK with all four swinging pots. And not to install unstabilized army commandoerats in the aft sectors just because the SL-8 manufacturer chased after a long gold ruble and, first of all, made SPN for the USSR, and not for his native Kriegsmarine.
        2. +3
          6 June 2016 17: 04
          "Gigantomania is an absolutely dead-end path for the development of weapons" ////

          It depends on what is considered gigantomania. Size is a very relative concept.
          The development trend of all military equipment (and still) is to hit the enemy
          from as far as possible.
          If this requires something huge - like an ICBM, for example, then gigantomania is justified.
          A small rocket cannot fly over continents and oceans smile .
        3. The comment was deleted.
  14. -1
    6 June 2016 11: 33
    author, sorry, question. Wilson wanted fame?

    When will the authors get tired of jabbering about Jutland, the TsUSIMU is the topic !!!, the Russian aircraft carrier, the Russian atomic destroyer-cruiser, Kuznetsov against Nimitz, when did it happen?
    Well, there are abilities, well, order a thread about a little-known episode or ship-tank-plane, please the people. Take a topic, think it over, do a search job, write.
    Well, what for write about what has already been described fifty million times starting from admirals and ending with people who have not seen the sea.

    Moreover, it is especially annoying to pull on paragraphs from authors, to compile paragraphs, will not insert a single word at all - and author Denis Brig will proudly sign it. Get on the forum next ....
    1. +3
      6 June 2016 11: 49
      Quote: King, just king
      Well, there are abilities, well, order a thread about a little-known episode or ship-tank-plane, I will please the people. Well, what for write about what has already been described fifty million times starting from admirals and ending with people who have not seen the sea.

      It depends on how to describe and what to rely on.
      We, the pomnitsa, described the same Midway for fifty-fifty times (rewriting Futida, Nimitz, Morrison and Lord) - just as the McCluskey dive players managed 5 minutes before the Japanese raised the whole armada to attack TF.16 and 17. And as with Midway completely destroyed the color of Japanese carrier-based aircraft.
      And then some discovered Parshall and Tully, who worked with Japanese sources, and began to publish translations of pieces from their Shatterd Sword, driving a heavy tank according to the canonical version of the battle. smile
      1. -1
        6 June 2016 12: 01
        ABOUT! What was it? I do not know. What have you dug up? Hope the Akagi hasn't rammed the Kaga?
        1. +2
          6 June 2016 14: 04
          Quote: King, just king
          ABOUT! What was it? I do not know. What have you dug up? Hope the Akagi hasn't rammed the Kaga?

          Nope.
          Dug up, for example, that the canonical version of Futida:
          At 10.20, Admiral Nagumo ordered the planes to fly into the air as they were ready. Finally, all the aircraft on the Akagi were built on the flight deck. The heating of the motors ended. The huge ship began to turn against the wind. Five minutes later, all the planes were supposed to be in the air.
          there is nothing more than an attempt to make a good face in a bad game: like, everything was ready at our place and if it weren’t for a happy chance, wow we would give them.
          As it turned out after studying the documents, at the time of McCluskey's strike, there was no question of any readiness of the strike groups to take off - all the AVs were busy with operations to receive and launch cover fighters. And in order to lift the 2nd shock wave into the air, it was first necessary to collect its fighters, "used up" to create an umbrella over AB. Because the results of the attacks without cover, Nagumo observed personally - on this very day.
          1. 0
            6 June 2016 16: 33
            Alexey, a dark story. After all, the logbook "Akagi" must have been removed. I already wrote here, about Tsushima there were showdowns again and again, what a pity I do not know Japanese, I would like to read, but in what state the Japs came to Tsushima.
            I think the journal can be requested, or published (this is for researchers. I read it and I understand.
            Yes, and, as it were, both of an air patrol, it is not an AND of an escort, it is unlikely that the escort fought in the air patrol. Nothing particularly scary for japas happened in the air. TN drew - they were in the water, B was thrown from above to "at random" and move.
            And where is this version published?
            1. +1
              6 June 2016 19: 28
              Quote: King, just king
              Yes, and somehow And air patrol, it’s not And an escort, it is unlikely that the escort fought in an air patrol. Nothing so terrible for japs ​​in the air happened.

              Happened? Before the arrival of McCluskey, the Japanese were forced to fight off 7 waves of raids - army men, marines, army men, marines, torpers, torpers, torpers. And with the "Yorktown" torpers came unexpectedly skillful "cats", who immediately pulled off a third of the "zero" (yes, a third - speaking earlier about half, I was wrong sad ).
              As a result of this successive impact, the fighters assigned to the air defense of the formation began to "run out" after the fourth wave - the deck crews did not have time to rearm them. As uv wrote. M. Tokarev AKA Nomat, one of the reasons was the unexpectedly high survivability of American vehicles and the too small ammo space of the Zero cannons, which turned out to be the only effective weapon). By the time the torps approached, there were 27 Zeros over Nagumo's compound, more than half of which had ammunition only for machine guns.
              And Nagumo decided to raise already prepared "zero" from the escort of the second wave to repel the attack.
              Just to estimate the number of fighters involved in the air defense: more than 40 "zero" were kept in the air to repel torps.

              In addition, Parshall and Tully went through the details:
              Most Midway battle research from the last century speaks of two hits and one close gap. However, the later work of the Americans J. Parshall and A. Tulli includes a very logical version of the proof that there was one direct hit. A 5-kg bomb from the plane of Richard Halsey Best, lieutenant of the U.S. Navy, commander of the 2th bomber squadron, fell into the rear edge of the central airlift, followed by a gap in the upper hangar among the loaded and armed torpedo bombers of the B454N6. The Kroeger bomb exploded on impact 5–10 meters from the left side of the Akagi, directly opposite the island. The geyser of the water raised by the explosion and the blast wave cut off the radio antennas; The Weber bomb, striking along the left edge of the flight deck in the stern, also exploded in the water, bending this edge up and severely damaging the left handlebar of the aircraft carrier. It was possible that some starboard aft were also flooded, but there was no Armageddon in the stern, and there couldn’t be any - there were no hangars under the flight deck, just as there was no huge crowd of aircraft on the flight deck itself. As a result of the expansion of the fragments of this bomb, 1 person died, the damage was rated as “minimal”.
              1. 0
                6 June 2016 20: 39
                Alexey, I think you are a smart enough person.
                It's not for nothing that I wrote about the magazine. I think 100% of the magazines were filmed from all ABs. We get involved in a rather meaningless argument about anything. What is written in the logbooks of sunken aircraft carriers ???
                If the magazine says that the rearmament of the TN and B has begun, then even if a million scientists put forward their versions, faith will be in the logbook.
                That's about Parshall and Tully, you quote (from what, by the way?), And not an excerpt from their work. Apparently in Russian there is nothing from these guys, then what is in English, and what kind of guys are they?
                1. 0
                  6 June 2016 21: 41
                  It is a
                  Shattered Sword: The Untold Story of the Battle of Midway
                  by Jonathan Parshall (Author), Anthony Tully (Author)

                  Eat on amazon
                  1. 0
                    6 June 2016 22: 41
                    Thank you.
                    There is such a thing, I stopped buying paper editions, completely. When I moved, I had to leave a lot, so I sent almost 200 books, they looked at me at the post office as a natural moron, sort of normal, and forwards all kinds of nonsense abroad.
                    I looked at my library, and thought to whom it is all on ... it will be necessary THEN. And he stopped buying books. Now only in electronic.
                    1. 0
                      6 June 2016 23: 44
                      Similarly.

                      Not only do not buy, but I can’t even read the paper. (Moreover, vision problems aggravate the situation: if necessary, read from paper angry and nervous)

                      Perhaps somewhere there is an electronic version.

                      But in principle, Aleksey seemed to say everything: before, the Japanese lied (which is usually for them) that everything had been normal before McCluskey’s approach. In reality, all the possibilities were exhausted for repulsing attacks, and any subsequent attack killed them.

                      I think they have a lie about Tsushima.
                      1. +1
                        7 June 2016 08: 26
                        So after all, the great chancellor either said or did not say: "They never lie so much as during the war, after the hunt and before the elections."
                      2. 0
                        7 June 2016 08: 40
                        So after all, the great chancellor either said or did not say: "They never lie so much as during the war, after the hunt and before the elections."


                        The Japanese have added a "national mentality" to this - the Japanese (and the Chinese, Thais, ....) are horrible liars: they lie to "cut their face" scary.

                        This is me not from books, but as a person familiar with them "from the inside" I say: I have lost a fair amount of health and love of life there
                      3. +1
                        7 June 2016 09: 33
                        Everywhere so. Our "Marat", too, was never considered sunk anywhere.
  15. +4
    6 June 2016 12: 13
    And then the doors of the maritime club suddenly opened, and unexpectedly and, according to the island gentlemen, impolitely swiftly entered a new member.


    The bottom line is that Germany produced per year 2 500 Engineersand England 350-400 engineers: Germany rapidly overtook England in industrial development ....
  16. +2
    6 June 2016 14: 25
    Quote: Fotoceva62
    Jutland showed that having riveted the keels, they could not provide clear control of such armads and, in general, reduced the general battle to a banal dump. They acted as best they could, but ... Danila didn’t have a stone flower ... It wasn’t reasonable to compete with Britain in the number of keels, at least on land and in the submarine fleet the spent money would be more useful. Jewish bankers defeated the war, who were able to help the German, Russian, Austro-Hungarian, and Ottoman empires self-destruct. The war bleeding and fragmenting Europe, created a group of weak and easily controlled from outside states such as Czechoslovakia, Poland, Finland, the Baltic dwarfs. As Foch said, this is not peace, it is a truce for 20 years.


    It would be more correct to say that the new elite won. Not without the heroes of Jutland. In 1919, the battleship "Marlboro" took out of captured and robbed Russia, the Yusupovs and the "shot" Romanovs, as well as the gold reserve of the empire, which turned the named names into "Jewish bankers".
  17. +2
    6 June 2016 23: 22
    It's hard with him, with Jutland :)))
    Here people write, for example
    Quote: King, just king
    Well, what for write about what has already been described fifty million times starting from admirals and ending with people who have not seen the sea.

    And really, it would seem, why? Yes, for one simple reason. As we did not know anything about Jutland, so we do not know anything about him to this day.
    For example, such a simple and banal question - who shot better? Answer ALL have one - Germans. But the question is why the Germans? Where are the statistics, where is the confirmation that the Germans really shot better? In the best case, there is a link to Puzyrevsky and the canonical figures - 101 heavy shells hit German ships and 121 hit British ships. While the British fired more heavy shells than the German.
    But what's interesting is that there were many episodes in Jutland. For example, the German battleships and battle cruisers did not cost anything to shoot Warrior and Defense, and the Black Prince, who had "gotten himself into" the German convoy, was generally frowned upon with 8 kbt. But these three ships received a total of 37 heavy shells. Why am I?
    And besides, where the Dreadnought fought with the Dreadnought, the Germans hit the English 84 times. The British entered the German dreadnought (excluding the old man Pommern) 100 times. Thus, we suddenly realize that it was in the dreadnought battles that the British did get into the Germans MORE than those in the British. But the British armored cruisers, by the will of their commanders, substituted themselves under the Teutonic guns, which improved the statistics of the German fleet. Does this speak of greater accuracy for the British? Who knows. In order to understand who shot accurately, who isn’t very good, you need to take literature, sit down and take it in seconds, who, from whom, when, how many times and who at that moment had how many guns, and how many of them could fight etc. etc. Do you have such an analysis? There is no such analysis. What is analysis there? Even accurate data are not available.
    For example, the same Puzyrevsky, pointing out 101 hits by the British, for some reason does not count heavy shells hitting the German "Wiesbaden", although he himself writes that
    For 1 hour 55 minutes of battle, Wiesbaden received many hits with semi-armor-piercing and HE shells of various calibers (305, 234 and 102 mm),

    But the author of the article, Denis Brig, does not even indicate 101, but 120 hits in German ships. And none of the commentators were interested - why so much? Apparently, everyone knows everything and everyone understands everything. Glad for everyone :)))
    Other Whose shells were better - German or English? It seems to be definitely German - they really pierced the armor, and did not break at the time of its breakdown. The truth then the question arises - why did the German fleet prove to be ineffective after Jutland, and not English?
    And so - why not touch. Tactics? Everyone always writes about the tactical genius of Hipper, superior to that of Beatty. True, it is usually forgotten that Hipper still did not fulfill his main task - the discovery of the main forces of the enemy, and Scheer buried himself directly in the British line.
    Why did British cruisers explode? How much did the concept of "lighter guns / heavy armor" of the Germans justify itself? How accurate was the fire of the battleships of Evan-Tomas (there is a suspicion that it is VERY accurate, which to some extent casts doubt on the generally accepted perception of this admiral as a close relative of Buratino). Wherever you go, questions are everywhere.
    And - I would like to thank the author for the topic raised. And for a worthy attempt to somehow bring together the main conclusions on Jutland - the way he sees them. hi
    1. +1
      7 June 2016 08: 50
      And I will answer.
      It is necessary to write, but not in SUCH format. Not in kindergarten.

      About the hits. Why count them, break spears. It is necessary, GETTING, GET A PERMISSION, GO, TO Germany, I don’t remember where "Seydlitz" was darned, read the archives in German, where EVERYTHING is indicated until small-caliber hits, then to other shipyards, then to Angdia, GATHERING, GET THE PERMISSION , read the repair sheets of "Malaya", then on other shipyards. TOTAL business.
      Then analyze, count, and think for several years. Then write a book.

      Only there are no candidates who want, no people who want to smell archival dust for months. So here, in a quick way, the Patients have a paragraph, Wilson has it, Hase has it there, but here you are, read, let it be CPA-H. This is it, Denis Brig.

      Therefore, Andrey, your right to defend, I expressed my opinion. Do you, Andrey, your wonderful "Harriers", also rub, translate, or write yourself?
      1. +1
        7 June 2016 18: 54
        Quote: King, just king
        About the hits. Why count them, break spears. It is necessary, GETTING, GET A PERMISSION, GO, to Germany, I don’t remember where "Seydlitz" was darned there, read the archives in German, where EVERYTHING is indicated up to small-caliber hits

        Would you like to dive to "Wiesbaden" in scuba? :)))
        Quote: King, just king
        Only there are no candidates who want, there are no people who want to smell archive dust for months

        Yes, I would love to, but where to find such a fool ... ehhkm ... kind uncle sponsor, who all this time I would transfer a couple of thousand dollars to support my family - not demanding anything in return? :) Of course, I love the story , but for the sake of her family and three children, I’m somehow not ready to leave :)))
        Quote: King, just king
        Do you, Andrey, your wonderful "Harriers", also rub, translate, or write yourself?

        Sam ... tyryu laughing
        There are two levels of work - one academic, this is work with primary sources. As you pointed out - we’re going to Kiel, we count Seidlitz’s rivets according to the statement. This is the lot of historians.
        There is a second level - we read the sources (not the first, but the sources) that someone wrote, having traveled to Kiel. We read different authors, we compare. And we draw some conclusions to which the authors, for some reason did not come. This is my level, alas.
        1. 0
          8 June 2016 08: 22
          Voooot! Everyone, everything, understands perfectly well, but nobody wants to dig the earth. laughing

          To Wiesbaden? And how-zhezh, suddenly it is generally a torpedo ... Scuba diving will not work (12 m), the bell is necessary.

          Anyway. I think that behind the veil of years, it probably doesn't matter how many hits, how many guns there were, modern aircraft-tank ships don't need it anymore. Just read and forget. I remembered how about 5 years ago I taxied to the air ticket on the Balancer. There, two frames, 15 pages, argued about how many sorties our pilots made in Korea, and mostly on their own conclusions, a nightmare.

          I am now actively interested in the knightly (before 1600) period of England and France, it is directly active. So historians can’t localize most important battles on the ground, although everything seems to be described and known. What about the dead ships.

          About "Harriers" ... Let's change, for clarity ... wink (should be expanded in the context of world politics, and sent to Eksmo, let them print).

          Accept the assurances of the utmost respect to you!
          Anatoly.
  18. 0
    7 June 2016 06: 27
    Hard. For a hundred years, spears have been broken. The loss of basic units is known. And there are questions: Hans' Pommern cannot be dragged into battleships, the battle cruiser Luttsov did not take off into the air, but was flooded and fought with her own German torpedo. The Hans managed to make a breakaway and go to the base, with the complete superiority of that side. Probably so.
  19. 0
    18 February 2018 04: 51
    It is written interestingly and fascinatingly, thanks. Here's a sore eye
    The once mighty Grand Fleet, entangled in the system of treaty agreements imposed by America, was reduced by several orders of magnitude, making it now the leading naval power of the United States.

    Probably meant that the fleet was reduced several timesAnd not several orders of magnitude. Because "order" is ten times.

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