Military Review

Steel grave: why the Israeli tank from Kubinka will go home

197
Steel grave: why the Israeli tank from Kubinka will go home



Russia is ready to transfer to Israel, an Israeli tank located in Xubin in the Kubinka town near Moscow, world news agencies report. This information has already managed to make a lot of noise in the Russian public. Why on earth is this done? What will Russia get in return? And what kind of tank is that?

The correspondent of the Federal Agency understood the issue News.

The appearance of "Magah"

Starting point in this stories was the arrival in the first half of the 60s of the XX century in Israel, the starting party of American tanks M48 "Patton". Since at that time the United States officially supported the embargo on the supply of military equipment to Tel Aviv, the Yankees made a kind of “horseback move”. The Israel Defense Forces (IDF) received American vehicles not directly from the United States, but from the arsenals of the Bundeswehr.

Following the launch party, new ones followed, so that very soon the IDF acquired a very solid fleet of American Pattons. The new owners renamed the car in "Magi". In English - Magach. The Israeli name М48 was deciphered as follows: Ma and Ch represented the initial syllables of Hebrew spelling four and eight, and Ga - derived from Gimel - meant Germany and served as a reminder that the first М48 were received from Germany.

However, Patton, which is already pretty outdated at that time - the “Magi” did not quite suit the Israelis. Starting from 15 December 1966, the IDF proceeded to modernize these tanks to the level of modification M48A3. After the tank received a 105-mm gun, a new transmission, a diesel engine, a low-profile turret of commanders and Belgian machine guns instead of American ones, the car was named "Magi-3".

His Majesty Blazer


Time passed, the power of anti-tank weapons grew in the world, and the "skin" of the Magagov did not become thicker. In order to somehow cope with this problem, the Israelis at the turn of the 70-s and 80-s made a kind of revolution in tank building - they were the first to adopt the first-generation dynamic protection (DZ). Under the name "Blazer" it began to be installed on the "Magi-3".

What is a blazer? These are metal containers with an explosive reinforced over tank armor. This substance detonates towards the anti-tank cumulative projectile, dispersing the cumulative jet and not allowing it to burn through the tank armor located under the DZ.

Actually, DZ was developed long before the 80-ies in the USSR and in Germany. But the idea of ​​covering the tank with explosives outside seemed so wild and “redundant” that these experiments remained so at the development stage. This gave primacy in the adoption of DZ in service in the hands of the Israelis.

Ira Efroni in a fire bag

6 June 1982, the Lebanese war broke out, better known in Israel as Operation Peace of Galilee. It was like that.

In 17: 30 10 June 1982, Ira Efroni, commander of the 362 tank battalion of the 734 tank battalion of the IDF, received an order from the command to occupy the intersection south of the Sultan Yaakub settlement. Intelligence data said that the defeated Syrian units were fleeing, so the battalion moved his Magaz-3 equipped Blazer with an almost traveling column and without infantry cover.

It soon became clear that the data on the status of the Syrians were "not a fact, but good wishes." After midnight, having retired eight kilometers from the main forces of their division, Efroni’s tanks found themselves in a “fire bag” that the Syrian commandos entrenched in the dominant heights staged the Israelis. Instead of the planned offensive, the 362 battalion had to break through the winding mountain road back to its own all night.

To 9: 00 11 June Efroni escaped from the "bag", but at the cost of eight wrecked tanks and the loss of 15 people. In 12: 00 11 June, a cease-fire agreement came into force, which allowed the Israelis to evacuate four wrecked tanks and most of the bodies of the dead. However, four more lost 362 battalion "Magah-3" after the cease-fire remained in the territory controlled by the Syrians.

Along the way, it turned out that the conspirators Zakharia Baumel and Yehuda Katz, as well as reservist Zvi Feldman, went missing in the hell of the night battle. All attempts to find at least some of their traces after the 10 — 11 battle on June 1982, at Sultan Jaakub, ended in failure, which was perhaps the most painful moment for the Israelis in this whole story.

Stories that had an unexpected sequel.

Guest from Lebanon

One of the captured "Magah-3" with "Blazer" Syrians handed over to the USSR. So the Israeli tank was in Kubinka near Moscow, where it was carefully studied. The special interest of Soviet designers, engineers and tankers was, of course, called the Blazer.

The Israeli DZ made such an impression that already in the summer of the same 1982, the USSR Ministry of Defense authorized the start of development work on the development of a DZ for domestic tanks. This feverish activity ended in 1985 with the adoption by the Soviet army of the mounted complex of the Contact-1 remote sensing complex with the 4-XNNXX dynamic protection element.

Since then, the DZ has become an indispensable component of the protection of Soviet tanks.



Well, what about the "Lebanese" "Magah-3"? From the test tankdrome he was moved to the departmental museum of armored weapons and equipment in the same Kubinka. In 1996, the museum was removed from 38 by the Research Institute of the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation to a separate state and is open to the public. Now everyone could see the “bins” of the tank museum ...

In the footsteps of the museum tales

Meanwhile, in Israel, they did not forget about their soldiers who went missing under Sultan Yakub. Not a single description of the tragic battle of the battalion Ira Efroni was complete without the mandatory mention of Baumel, Katz and Feldman. The fact that the USSR possessed a considerable number of captured Israeli armored vehicles transferred to it by the Arabs was, of course, suspected in the IDF. But Israel had no specific data on this topic for a long time.

Everything changed after the 1996 year, when the doors of the armored museum in Kubinka opened for all comers. Although after that, the bright “Magi-3” standing in the museum pavilion did not pay much attention for a long time.

This lasted until the Israelis did not reach the rumors, "for the sake of wit," distributed by one of the museum guides. He very seriously told the audience that one of the Israeli tanks was delivered to Kubinka from the Middle East, having brewed tower hatches and the remains of the deceased crew inside.

The story was just a mock up, but he forced the Israelis to start a test, during which they were surprised to see that the tank in Kubinka near Moscow was one of the lost 10 — 11 June 1982 machines by Ira Efroni! And theoretically, inside the tank at the time of its capture (but not delivered to the USSR) there could indeed be the remains of the missing Israeli soldiers.

From that moment on, the relatives of Baumel, Katz and Feldman began to bombard the government of Israel and the IDF with demands for the return of the old tank to their homeland. In the end, these messages turned into the corresponding requests of the Israelis to the Russian government and the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation. But for a long time these messages remained unanswered.

Putin gives "good"


Another unexpected turn the story of the “Lebanese” “Magah-3” underwent after September 30, 2015, of the Russian Aerospace Forces launched a counter-terrorist operation in Syria. From this point on, our government’s attention to Russian-Israeli relations, for understandable reasons, has increased many times. The benevolent stance of Israel to Russia's actions in Syria acquired even greater significance after 24 on November 2015 by Turkish F-16 fighters in the area of ​​the Syrian-Turkish border was shot down by a Russian bomber Su-24M and relations between Russia and Turkey deteriorated sharply.

All these circumstances, together, led to the fact that the Israeli side’s initiative to transport the “Magah-3” from the Russian Federation to Israel began to find more “understanding” from the Russian government. At the request of Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu and with the sanction of Russian President Vladimir Putin, relevant consultations began. Gradually, the parties came to an agreement. Moreover, its study was launched not in April 2016 of the year, as the Israeli side claims, but earlier - as early as January of this year. At least, so say the staff of the Russian Central Museum of armored weapons and equipment.

One way or another, by order of the Chief of General Staff of the Israel Defense Forces, Gadi Ayzenkot, a team of IDF technicians was sent to Russia, who, together with Russian colleagues, began preparing the transportation of the tank from Kubinka to Israeli territory.

NetNyahu posted the following text on his Facebook page on 29 May, when all the dots on “i” on the issue of the “Magakh” program were: “I thank Russian President Vladimir Putin, who responded to my request to return the Israeli tank that was shot down during the battle Sultan Jaakub during the first Lebanon war. I raised this question during our meeting last month. The families of the missing Zachariah Baumel, Zvi Feldman and Yehuda Katz have not been able to even come to the graves of their relatives for 34. The tank is the only evidence of that fight, and it will be returned to Israel by the decision of President Putin, who responded to my request. ”

Tank in exchange for sympathy


Why the return of the tank is necessary for the Government of Israel and the relatives of the missing under Sultan Yakub is understandable. Why the return of the tank is necessary for the government of Russia - in general, it’s understandable too. This is a convenient opportunity for the Russian Federation to demonstrate to Israel its negotiability and, albeit indirectly, but to strengthen the friendly neutrality of Tel Aviv in the Syrian issue.

To summarize, we have an exchange of obvious historical value for unobvious Israeli sympathies. The future will show how justified this step will be. In the meantime, it is obvious that the museum fund of Kubinka loses an exhibit with an interesting and unique history. Moreover, the exhibit, which had a great influence on the development of domestic tank building.



Whether the Kubinka will receive something in return for a tank going down to Israel is not yet clear. Pessimists believe that the case will be limited to the gratitude of the Israelis. Optimists and, by the way, some museum staff believe that the agreement between Putin and Netanyahu implies not just transferring the “Lebanese” tank to Israel, but exchanging it for another tank of the same modification, but deprived of the status of “steel grave”.

Speaking sensibly, such an exchange of equipment is more logical than a one-way transfer of a tank. In this case, the exchange can be made not only on the same “Magah-3”, but also on other armored vehicles, which were in service with the IDF and of undoubted historical interest. For example, it could be a heavy tracked armored vehicle “Akhzarit”, or even the main tank “Merkava” of the first modifications, converted by the Israelis from the captured T-54 and T-55.
Author:
Originator:
http://riafan.ru/525967-stalnaya-mogila-pochemu-izrailskii-tank-iz-kubinki-otpravitsya-na-rodinu
197 comments
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  1. mirag2
    mirag2 4 June 2016 06: 43
    +32
    You can not give !!! Everyone has the right to their own opinion - personally, I am against such a step.
    almost every trophy tank killed someone. and then what?
    ps Something is not visible "friendly" steps on the part of Israel ... Vaughn Ravid Gore spread rot for covering events in the Donbass "from the other side".
    1. Professor
      Professor 4 June 2016 07: 51
      +22
      Quote: mirag2
      Something is not visible "friendly" steps from Israel ..

      For example, not the downing of a Russian bomber invading Israeli airspace.

      Instead, the tank must be put in the Cuban tank Merkava-1. The Czechs were given, what is worse than Russia? wink
      1. Bongo
        Bongo 4 June 2016 07: 58
        +15
        Quote: Professor
        Instead, the tank must be put in the Cuban tank Merkava-1. The Czechs were given, what is worse than Russia?

        It would not be bad to change for the "Chariot". I just started to write an article on your tip. But I try to dig deeper and tell the story of the creation of "Magicians". And I also "liked" this in the publication:
        What is a blazer? These are metal containers with an explosive reinforced over tank armor. This substance detonates towards the anti-tank cumulative projectile, dispersing the cumulative jet and not allowing it to burn through the tank armor located under the DZ.
        No. The author superficially imagines the mechanism of action of RS.
        1. Professor
          Professor 4 June 2016 09: 13
          -12%
          Quote: Bongo
          I just started writing an article on your tip.

          Here you go. Now I'm also a gunner. wink I look forward to it.

          Quote: Parsec
          An example from a stupid layman.

          You will excuse me for allowing myself to express my opinion in the presence of the "smart chief of the general staff."

          Quote: Parsec
          The depth of interaction between Russia and Israel in the VKS operation is unknown to the average person, and blotting out and throwing up with a weapon?

          To protect its sovereignty, as Israel did with the Syrian Su-24 and Turkey with Russian.

          Quote: Spade
          A Russian bomber can fly over part of Syria temporarily occupied by Israel - yes.

          And you fly without warning or cross the border on foot and immediately feel on yourself under whose sovereignty this territory is located. wink

          Quote: Spade
          Let me remind you, even the closest allies, the Americans, do not recognize these territories as part of Israel.

          AND? Because of this, the Golan became Syrian, Syrian citizens live in our homes, drive along our roads, work in our factories? Or have sanctions been imposed on Israel?
          1. Parsec
            Parsec 4 June 2016 09: 35
            +8
            It was said that it’s not with arms you personally blabber, but with your jaws, which you misinterpret.

            Incorrect quoting is a form of cheating. You are a sharpie.
            1. Professor
              Professor 4 June 2016 09: 43
              -3
              Quote: Parsec
              It was said that it’s not with arms you personally blabber, but with your jaws, which you misinterpret.

              Fingers on the keyboard, for that matter.

              Quote: Parsec
              You are a sharpie.

          2. Bongo
            Bongo 4 June 2016 10: 00
            +15
            Quote: Professor
            Here you go. Now I'm also a gunner.

            Apparently you are a man of many talents, and I live thousands of kilometers away from you and never cease to be surprised. lol
            Quote: Professor
            I look forward to it.
            You’ll read the first one, well, clean up the flaws wink
            Quote: Professor
            You will excuse me for allowing myself to express my opinion in the presence of the "smart chief of the general staff."

            Aren't you tired of mocking people? Some people take it seriously. wassat
            1. Professor
              Professor 4 June 2016 10: 08
              +3
              Quote: Bongo
              Aren't you tired of mocking people? Some people take it seriously.

              They accuse me of being a stupid layman as if at least the chiefs of the general staff had gathered here. Well, how not to mock? wink It is hamsin street (31.9 ° C, Humidity: 10%), and here it is cool and pleasant. So I spend time.
              1. atalef
                atalef 4 June 2016 10: 10
                -3
                Quote: Professor
                It is hamsin street (31.9 ° C, Humidity: 10%), and here it is cool and pleasant. So I spend time.

                And tomorrow it will be 35, although by the end of the week it will rain.
              2. Bongo
                Bongo 4 June 2016 10: 12
                +13
                Quote: Professor
                Well, how not to mock? On the hamsin street (31.9 ° C, Humidity: 10%), and here it is cool and pleasant. So I spend time.

                Come to our Far East, cool off. Yesterday morning it was + 4, today it is warmer but not by much.
                1. Professor
                  Professor 4 June 2016 10: 29
                  +6
                  Quote: Bongo
                  Come to our Far East, cool off. Yesterday morning it was + 4, today it is warmer but not by much.

                  At your temperature, I will die of frostbite, to the delight of many chiefs of the general staff of this site. wink

                  Quote: atalef
                  And tomorrow it will be 35, although by the end of the week it will rain.

                  Today it will be 37 ° C (32.1 ° C, 11:29 AM), and the planes fly despite the hamsin. Wonders. fellow
                  1. Bongo
                    Bongo 4 June 2016 10: 33
                    +13
                    Quote: Professor
                    At your temperature, I will die of frostbite, to the delight of many chiefs of the general staff of this site.

                    But you will be "forever young". lol However, this is a matter of habit, I just went fishing yesterday with my youngest (8 years old kid). He like it very much.
                    1. atalef
                      atalef 4 June 2016 10: 40
                      +8
                      Quote: Bongo
                      But you will be "forever young"

                      Like a mammoth baby Dima
                  2. atalef
                    atalef 4 June 2016 10: 33
                    +4
                    Quote: Professor
                    Today it will be 37 ° C (32.1 ° C, 11:29 AM), and the planes fly despite the hamsin. Wonders

                    Well, not very miracles. I have a substation near Ramat David - for 3 weeks there have been changing the transformer there, so the planes without a break - from morning to evening. Squadrons.
                    1. carp
                      carp 4 June 2016 12: 43
                      0
                      Sanya, how can replacing a transformer take 3 weeks? Hevrat Hashmal boasts of his effectiveness ...
                      1. atalef
                        atalef 4 June 2016 12: 51
                        +1
                        Quote: carpag
                        Sanya, how can replacing a transformer take 3 weeks? Hevrat Hashmal boasts of his effectiveness ...

                        Well, if the transformer is 55mVA, yes, with a weight of 70 tons, and with new protections and current meters, drying and testing - in general, pretty quickly.
                      2. carp
                        carp 4 June 2016 13: 10
                        0
                        And whose production is the transformer? Is it not Siemens time? ;-)
                      3. atalef
                        atalef 4 June 2016 13: 25
                        0
                        Quote: carpag
                        And whose production is the transformer? Is it not Siemens time? ;-)

                        There are no Siemens Siemens for such power.
                        Wonrool (formerly ELCO) is a plant in Netanya.
              3. Idiot
                Idiot 4 June 2016 10: 36
                +1
                Quote: Professor
                Today it will be 37 ° C (32.1 ° C, 11:29 AM), and the planes fly despite the hamsin. Wonders.


                Only we Jews can do anything ...
              4. Idiot
                Idiot 4 June 2016 10: 36
                0
                Quote: Professor
                Today it will be 37 ° C (32.1 ° C, 11:29 AM), and the planes fly despite the hamsin. Wonders.


                Only we Jews can do anything ...
                1. atalef
                  atalef 4 June 2016 10: 39
                  -13%
                  Quote: pft, fkb
                  Only we Jews can do anything ...

                  Quote: pft, fkb
                  And I also know how to embroider ...

                  You are not a Jew - Jews have sewing machines.
                  You are more likely on the hoop, with a splinter.
                  1. Idiot
                    Idiot 4 June 2016 11: 10
                    +15
                    We slurp the cabbage soup. Man of God, sheathed with leather. You will pardon my sarcasm, but the comments should be informative. For personal communication, the Jewish genius came up with SMS. Forgive me again, for God's sake, because we have only one Lord ... PS I changed the phrase from the movie "Don't Cry!" It was about Georgians. Sometimes you watch Soviet film classics, it instills good and eternal.
                  2. The comment was deleted.
                  3. atalef
                    atalef 4 June 2016 11: 18
                    -17%
                    Quote: pft, fkb
                    Laptam cabbage soup

                    Did not try with a spoon?
                    Quote: pft, fkb
                    You will forgive my sarcasm, but the comments should be informative.

                    Quote: pft, fkb
                    Only we Jews can do anything.

                    Sea of ​​information laughing
                    Quote: pft, fkb
                    Forgive me again, for God's sake, because we have one Lord ...
                  4. Idiot
                    Idiot 4 June 2016 11: 47
                    +13
                    I have a desire to remind the Eight Generalissimo that rudeness in correspondence communication is indicative of people with a low intellectual level and, in part, impairment. Judging by the delightful photograph (I am an inveterate cat lover, thank you) you are in some ignorance that Yahweh Jehovah is one of the names of God in Judaism and Orthodoxy. This comes from the History of Religions. There is a whole scientific school that studies the Bible. Judaism and Orthodoxy are identical in general, i.e. we have common roots. However, "you shouldn't throw pearls in front of pigs." Learn materiel ...
                  5. atalef
                    atalef 4 June 2016 11: 58
                    -6
                    Quote: pft, fkb
                    I have a desire to remind the Eight Generalissimo

                    Is there such a title in VO, can I name it?
                    Quote: pft, fkb
                    There is a whole school of science that studies the Bible. Judaism and Orthodoxy are identical in general, i.e. we have common roots

                    Islam forgot
                    Quote: pft, fkb
                    However, "you shouldn't throw pearls in front of pigs." Learn materiel ...

                    Are you talking to me ? belay
                  6. Idiot
                    Idiot 4 June 2016 13: 37
                    +9
                    Well, you (8). This is a joke. Islam has not forgotten. You are a Jew, I am Orthodox, Muslims did not take part in the controversy. This is me not specifically for you, but for everyone who, having no arguments, switches to banal rudeness and personality. The quote is taken from Hermann Hesse's novel The Glass Bead Game.
              5. Idiot
                Idiot 4 June 2016 11: 47
                +1
                I have a desire to remind the Eight Generalissimo that rudeness in correspondence communication is indicative of people with a low intellectual level and, in part, impairment. Judging by the delightful photograph (I am an inveterate cat lover, thank you) you are in some ignorance that Yahweh Jehovah is one of the names of God in Judaism and Orthodoxy. This comes from the History of Religions. There is a whole scientific school that studies the Bible. Judaism and Orthodoxy are identical in general, i.e. we have common roots. However, "you shouldn't throw pearls in front of pigs." Learn materiel ...
              6. Monarchist
                Monarchist 4 June 2016 22: 12
                +4
                Rudeness at least in absentia or full-time remains rudeness
  • Idiot
    Idiot 4 June 2016 10: 32
    0
    Quote: Professor
    They accuse me of being a stupid layman as if at least the chiefs of the general staff had gathered here. Well, how not to mock? It is hamsin street (31.9 ° C, Humidity: 10%), and here it is cool and pleasant. So I spend time.


    And I also know how to embroider ...
  • Idiot
    Idiot 4 June 2016 10: 32
    0
    Quote: Professor
    They accuse me of being a stupid layman as if at least the chiefs of the general staff had gathered here. Well, how not to mock? It is hamsin street (31.9 ° C, Humidity: 10%), and here it is cool and pleasant. So I spend time.


    And I also know how to embroider ...
  • rabbi's pais
    rabbi's pais 4 June 2016 13: 07
    -6
    Quote: Professor
    It is hamsin street (31.9 ° C, Humidity: 10%), and here it is cool and pleasant. So I spend time.

    Are you drinking Ukrainian pivas again in a vest? laughing
  • Idiot
    Idiot 4 June 2016 10: 19
    -1
    Bongo once again qualitatively licked the Professor. Apparently a man of many talents. I never cease to be surprised.
    1. Bongo
      Bongo 4 June 2016 10: 29
      +1
      Quote: pft, fkb
      Bongo once again qualitatively licked the Professor. Apparently a man of many talents. I never cease to be surprised.

      Wow, have I got another personal fan? lol But you had primitive fantasies, others were much more inventive. fellow
      1. Idiot
        Idiot 4 June 2016 10: 50
        0
        Quote: Bongo
        Wow, have I got another personal fan? But you had primitive fantasies, others were much more inventive.


        I am heterosexual. You have nothing to answer, because I am right. You compensate for the lack of intelligence with emoticons, a fair amount of which would be appropriate in your articles.
        1. atalef
          atalef 4 June 2016 10: 54
          -6
          Quote: pft, fkb
          I am heterosexual.

          And judging by the nickname, you still fucked laughing
          1. Idiot
            Idiot 4 June 2016 11: 17
            +6
            Quote: atalef
            And judging by the nickname, you still fucked


            Well done, read it. Judging by the fact that we have become at YOU, there are no more arguments. There was a higher opinion of the collective mind of 8 generalissimo ...
            1. atalef
              atalef 4 June 2016 11: 40
              -4
              Quote: pft, fkb
              There was a higher opinion of the collective mind of 8 generalissimo ...

              Whose reincarnation will you? wink
            2. Idiot
              Idiot 4 June 2016 11: 49
              +3
              Quote: atalef
              Whose reincarnation will you?


              I live my first life.
        2. Idiot
          Idiot 4 June 2016 11: 17
          +1
          Quote: atalef
          And judging by the nickname, you still fucked


          Well done, read it. Judging by the fact that we have become at YOU, there are no more arguments. There was a higher opinion of the collective mind of 8 generalissimo ...
      2. Bongo
        Bongo 4 June 2016 11: 10
        +2
        Quote: pft, fkb
        I am heterosexual.

        Not a fact, judging by your comments No.
        Quote: pft, fkb
        You have nothing, because I am right.
        Really?
        Quote: pft, fkb
        You compensate for the lack of intelligence with emoticons

        You need to talk with my wife, she believes that I am too smart for her and therefore it is difficult for her to communicate with me. Can you convince her?
        1. Idiot
          Idiot 4 June 2016 11: 29
          0
          What a strange tirade. Directly to the wall of the infamous, they nailed the machine-gun burst of arguments. I will not communicate with your wife. I am a highly moral believer and I don’t communicate with other people's wives. Even if it concerns your articles, in my opinion, shallow, mostly borrowed and engaged.
          1. Bongo
            Bongo 4 June 2016 11: 48
            +1
            Quote: pft, fkb
            What a strange tirade. Directly to the wall of the infamous, they nailed the machine-gun burst of arguments.

            Hope to survive after the machine gun lineup? Or as in that joke- Eight bullets in the head, but the brain is not hurt?
            Quote: pft, fkb
            I am a highly moral believer and I don’t communicate with other people's wives.

            I don’t even know whether to sympathize with you because PGM is a serious disease or be glad that you have little chance of offspring.
            Quote: pft, fkb
            Even if it concerns your articles, in my opinion, shallow, mostly borrowed and engaged.

            Please quote in what place are they biased? And tell me from whom to demand money for engagement?
            As for borrowing - I report: before being published on VO articles are tested for originality. With originality less than 90% to publication are not allowed. If you wrote at least one article, you would know that.
          2. Idiot
            Idiot 4 June 2016 11: 57
            +3
            You, Bongo, are like that janitor, poorly versed in the class structure of society. The conversation in you is tiring. Sorry if I unreasonably accused of plagiarism ... Again rude, Bongo, leave my brain and offspring alone. I am sure that if we didn’t communicate in absentia, you would not be so verbose. I have not read all of your articles, but, as I understand it, your interests are limited to the achievements of the state of Israel, mainly military ones. You, a citizen of the Russian Federation, do not find anything interesting in the achievements of your country?
          3. Bongo
            Bongo 4 June 2016 12: 09
            +3
            Quote: pft, fkb
            You, Bongo, are like that janitor, poorly versed in the class structure of society. The conversation in you is tiring.

            What I am incredibly happy, especially since you first started throwing poop. Is not it?
            Quote: pft, fkb
            Sorry if you unreasonably accused of plagiarism.

            I'm sorry. smile
            Quote: pft, fkb
            Rude again, Bongo, leave my brain and offspring alone.
            Your brain, like posterity, is deeply indifferent to me ... request
            Quote: pft, fkb
            I’m sure that if we didn’t communicate in absentia, you wouldn’t be so verbose
            Throw the address in PM? No desire to visit Komsomolsk-on-Amur?
          4. Idiot
            Idiot 4 June 2016 13: 44
            +2
            I am always publicly correct, do not slander. If you are all indifferent to me, then I suggest that you ignore me, and not stoop to rudeness, if you consider yourself a decent person. There is no desire to visit Komsomolsk-on-Amur, but I personally like the name of the city. By the way, when the argument is in full swing, the truth evaporates. Everyone has already forgotten that the article is about a tank that will return to its historical homeland. I was in Kubinka and saw him. I think that it is necessary to return, but Israel can give in return some other. If he wants ...
          5. Bongo
            Bongo 4 June 2016 13: 50
            +1
            Quote: pft, fkb
            I am always publicly correct, do not slander.

            Quote: pft, fkb
            Bongo qualitatively licked the Professor.

            Well, yes, you yourself are correct ... No.
            Quote: pft, fkb
            and not stoop to rudeness, if you consider yourself a decent person.
            As it comes around, it will respond. Look at my comments, as with me - so am I ... I'm not used to turning the other cheek.
            Quote: pft, fkb
            There is no desire to visit Komsomolsk-on-Amur, but I personally like the name of the city.

            But it’s a pity, our nature is beautiful, fishing and hunting are excellent, but for some reason people are leaving. The population declined from 330 thousand people. to 250. thousand
          6. Idiot
            Idiot 4 June 2016 14: 05
            +1
            Fish seeks where it is deeper, man - where it is better. There is something unhealthy in your blessed land. I am absolutely serious about this. And first of all this applies to officials. They have lost their shores there. And the people vote with their feet. I doubt that the new "innovative" law "On hectares" will change anything.
            However, our mayor is generally homosexual ... Somehow.
          7. Bongo
            Bongo 4 June 2016 14: 16
            +1
            Quote: pft, fkb
            The fish is looking for where it is deeper, the man - where it is better. There is something unhealthy in your blessed land

            Better and unbearable - these are not synonyms. We have nothing unhealthy. The climate is difficult - it really is. In Soviet times, people went to the Far East for good earnings, early pensions, and they quickly provided housing. In 1987, my first salary was 520 rubles - huge money by Soviet standards.
            Quote: pft, fkb
            They have generally lost your coast there. And the people vote with their feet.

            They have long since lost everything since the "galley rower".
            Quote: pft, fkb
            I doubt that the new "innovative" law "On hectares" will change anything.
            It will not change anything until the money is pumped out of the region, the tax and tariff policies are changed, but not with this power ...
            Quote: pft, fkb
            However, our mayor is generally homosexual ... Somehow.
            I don't really care who sleeps with whom, if only everyone does their job well.
        2. Idiot
          Idiot 4 June 2016 14: 05
          0
          Fish seeks where it is deeper, man - where it is better. There is something unhealthy in your blessed land. I am absolutely serious about this. And first of all this applies to officials. They have lost their shores there. And the people vote with their feet. I doubt that the new "innovative" law "On hectares" will change anything.
          However, our mayor is generally homosexual ... Somehow.
    2. Idiot
      Idiot 4 June 2016 13: 44
      0
      I am always publicly correct, do not slander. If you are all indifferent to me, then I suggest that you ignore me, and not stoop to rudeness, if you consider yourself a decent person. There is no desire to visit Komsomolsk-on-Amur, but I personally like the name of the city.
  • Idiot
    Idiot 4 June 2016 11: 57
    0
    You, Bongo, are like that janitor, poorly versed in the class structure of society. The conversation in you is tiring. Sorry if you unreasonably accused of plagiarism. Rude again, Bongo, leave my brain and offspring alone. I am sure that if we didn’t communicate in absentia, you would not be so verbose.
  • Idiot
    Idiot 4 June 2016 11: 29
    0
    What a strange tirade. Directly to the wall of the infamous, they nailed the machine-gun burst of arguments. I will not communicate with your wife. I am a highly moral believer and I don’t communicate with other people's wives. Even if it concerns your articles, in my opinion, shallow, mostly borrowed and engaged.
  • Idiot
    Idiot 4 June 2016 10: 29
    -4
    Bongo qualitatively licked the Professor. Apparently a man of many talents. I never cease to be surprised.
  • Idiot
    Idiot 4 June 2016 10: 29
    -3
    Bongo qualitatively licked the Professor. Apparently a man of many talents. I never cease to be surprised.
    1. Mordvin 3
      Mordvin 3 4 June 2016 12: 09
      +9
      Quote: pft, fkb

      R'S ‹RЅRµ RјRsRіR» Ryo R ± S ‹SѓРґР ° Р» ять СЃРІРѕРё РєРѕРјРјРµРЅС‚С ‹-РґРІРѕР№РЅРёРєРё?
      1. MACCABI-TLV
        MACCABI-TLV 4 June 2016 13: 34
        +3
        Quote: Mordvin 3
        R'S ‹RЅRµ RјRsRіR» Ryo R ± S ‹SѓРґР ° Р» ять СЃРІРѕРё РєРѕРјРјРµРЅС‚С ‹-РґРІРѕР№РЅРёРєРё?

        And it’s better to shut up at all !!! 40 posts there is nothing.
        1. Idiot
          Idiot 4 June 2016 14: 07
          +2
          Quote: MACCABI-TLV
          And it’s better to shut up at all !!! 40 posts there is nothing.


          You also have the right to shut up. We have pluralism and democracy.
          1. atalef
            atalef 4 June 2016 14: 10
            +1
            Quote: pft, fkb
            You also have the right to shut up. We have pluralism and democracy.

            pft, fkb liberalists. laughing
            1. Idiot
              Idiot 4 June 2016 14: 15
              +5
              Quote: atalef
              pft, fkb liberalists


              This is called sarcasm. I am a staunch Stalinist.
            2. atalef
              atalef 4 June 2016 14: 21
              +1
              Quote: pft, fkb
              Quote: atalef
              pft, fkb liberalists


              This is called sarcasm. I am a staunch Stalinist.
            3. Idiot
              Idiot 4 June 2016 14: 25
              +5
              Thanks again for the cat. Looks like a swiss eicher. But I like the British shorthair the most. But again, no one talks about the tank.
            4. atalef
              atalef 4 June 2016 14: 30
              +3
              Quote: pft, fkb
              But I like the British shorthair the most. But again, no one talks about the tank.

              The British suck.
              My bald is like a tank
            5. Idiot
              Idiot 4 June 2016 14: 48
              +3
              Quote: atalef
              The British suck; my bald is like a tank


              I admit my unconditional defeat.
            6. Idiot
              Idiot 4 June 2016 14: 48
              0
              Quote: atalef
              The British suck; my bald is like a tank


              I admit my unconditional defeat.
            7. MACCABI-TLV
              MACCABI-TLV 4 June 2016 14: 54
              +5
              Quote: atalef
              The British suck.

              that people, that cats ....
          2. Bongo
            Bongo 4 June 2016 14: 40
            +4
            Quote: pft, fkb
            But again, no one talks about the tank.

            Today I spent half a day collecting material about this tank, however, you won’t please it. Again write:
            Quote: pft, fkb
            I have not read all of your articles, but, as I understand it, your interests are limited to the achievements of the state of Israel, mainly military ones. You, a citizen of the Russian Federation, do not find anything interesting in the achievements of your country?

            In general, "I have not read, but I condemn"? negative I write only about what I myself am interested in. It could be Operation "Orchard" or The role of Allied combat aviation in the fight against German tanks or The current state of the Syrian Arab Republic air defense system choose for yourself.
            As for the state of Israel and the Jews, I am absolutely indifferent to the nationality of a person, much more important is how he manifests himself. hi
          3. Idiot
            Idiot 4 June 2016 14: 50
            +2
            I read everything, I just rarely pay attention to the authors. I already apologized.
          4. Idiot
            Idiot 4 June 2016 14: 50
            0
            I read everything, I just rarely pay attention to the authors. I already apologized.
      2. Idiot
        Idiot 4 June 2016 14: 25
        +1
        Thanks again for the cat. Looks like a swiss eicher. But I like the British shorthair the most. But again, no one talks about the tank.
  • MACCABI-TLV
    MACCABI-TLV 4 June 2016 14: 52
    +2
    Quote: pft, fkb
    You also have the right to shut up. We have pluralism and democracy.

    go to each other in the LAN, and exercise there in sweets, and not on a common branch.
    In the Forums, what you are doing here is called a malicious flash, and is punishable by a modernization team, bans of different periods. And in plain language it sounds like "stop littering the thread with messages that are not related to the topic."
    Thank you!
  • Idiot
    Idiot 4 June 2016 14: 07
    -2
    Quote: MACCABI-TLV
    And it’s better to shut up at all !!! 40 posts there is nothing.


    You also have the right to shut up. We have pluralism and democracy.
  • Idiot
    Idiot 4 June 2016 13: 51
    0
    Comments-doubles are set automatically. Question to the site management.
  • Idiot
    Idiot 4 June 2016 13: 51
    0
    Comments-doubles are set automatically. Question to the site management.
  • Lopatov
    Lopatov 4 June 2016 10: 49
    +3
    Quote: Professor
    And you fly without warning or cross the border on foot

    What is the "border"?


    Quote: Professor
    From this the Golan became Syrian

    Yes.

    Quote: Professor
    Syrian citizens live in our homes, drive on our roads, work in our factories?

    That's it!
    And you in relation to these citizens are obliged to be guided not by the laws of Israel, but by the Hague Convention "On the Laws and Customs of War on Land" (1907), the Geneva Conventions "On the Protection of War Victims" (1949) and Additional Protocols I and II to them (1977)
    1. atalef
      atalef 4 June 2016 10: 59
      -5
      Quote: Spade
      What is the "border"?

      Is this a surprise for you?
      Quote: Spade
      From this the Golan became Syrian
      Yes.

      Then the Kuril Islands are Kuril
      Quote: Spade
      Syrian citizens live in our homes, drive on our roads, work in our factories?
      That's it!

      Do not eat raw tomatoes at night - harmful
      Quote: Spade
      And you in relation to these citizens are obliged to be guided not by the laws of Israel, but by the Hague Convention "On the Laws and Customs of War on Land" (1907), the Geneva Conventions "On the Protection of War Victims" (1949) and Additional Protocols I and II to them (1977)

      Who is it all about?
      1. Lopatov
        Lopatov 4 June 2016 11: 31
        +4
        Quote: atalef
        Is this a surprise for you?

        For the world community. For him, she goes much further.


        Quote: atalef
        Then the Kuril Islands are Kuril

        Russian. The war with Japan is over. Surrender. Complete and unconditional. The war between Israel and Syria is not.


        Quote: atalef
        Do not eat raw tomatoes at night - harmful

        Are you starting to think with your head, not with agitation? I will definitely eat.


        Quote: atalef
        Who is it all about?

        Good question ... Boo-ha-ha ...
        1. atalef
          atalef 4 June 2016 11: 38
          +4
          Quote: Spade
          For the world community. For him, she goes much further.

          Whose Crimea is it? For the world community?
          wink
          Quote: Spade
          Russian. The war with Japan is over. Surrender. Complete and unconditional

          And what does the island have to do with it? Or is there a peace treaty?
          Quote: Spade
          The war between Israel and Syria is not.

          Well, when it’s over - then we'll talk
          Quote: Spade
          Quote: atalef
          Do not eat raw tomatoes at night - harmful
          Are you starting to think with your head, not with agitation? I will definitely eat.

          I have no doubt
          Quote: Spade
          Good question ... Boo-ha-ha ...

          indeed, where are they in the Golan (Syrian citizens) - if only the Druze Maj El Shams (but you can’t remember these words ( hi
      2. Proxima
        Proxima 4 June 2016 14: 11
        +3
        Quote: atalef

        Quote: Spade
        From this the Golan became Syrian
        Yes.

        Then the Kuril Islands are Kuril

        It seems that you will now agree on a slogan, such as: "The Golan Heights for the Dutch, the Gulf of Finland for the Finns, the Karelian Isthmus for the Koreans, and BOBRUISK for the BOBRAM!"
        1. atalef
          atalef 4 June 2016 14: 13
          -3
          Quote: Proxima
          It seems that you will now agree on a slogan, such as: "The Golan Heights for the Dutch, the Gulf of Finland for the Finns, the Karelian Isthmus for the Koreans, and BOBRUISK for the BEAVERS!

          kill the beaver - save the tree !!!
          1. Idiot
            Idiot 4 June 2016 14: 53
            +4
            Quote: atalef
            kill the beaver - save the tree !!!


            Kill a woman - save a beaver. Mink. Ermine. Crocodile ...
            1. Revolver
              Revolver 4 June 2016 18: 07
              +1
              Quote: pft, fkb
              Kill a woman - save a beaver. Mink. Ermine. Crocodile ...

              And then what - change orientation?belay
          2. Idiot
            Idiot 4 June 2016 14: 53
            0
            Quote: atalef
            kill the beaver - save the tree !!!


            Kill a woman - save a beaver. Mink. Ermine. Crocodile ...
        2. Idiot
          Idiot 4 June 2016 14: 37
          +1
          Quote: Proxima
          And what does the island have to do with it? Or is there a peace treaty?


          On the topic of the so-called "northern territories" there is an interesting article by N. Narochnitskaya "The Kuril Islands - a problem generated by Russian lack of will." In general, for me, I would not discuss the topic of territories at all. Whatever. In the modern world, the one who has more rights is right. And on the offended it is known that they lay down ...
        3. Idiot
          Idiot 4 June 2016 14: 37
          0
          Quote: Proxima
          And what does the island have to do with it? Or is there a peace treaty?


          On the topic of the so-called "northern territories" there is an interesting article by N. Narochnitskaya "The Kuril Islands - a problem generated by Russian lack of will." In general, for me, I would not discuss the topic of territories at all. Whatever. In the modern world, the one who has more rights is right. And on the offended it is known that they lay down ...
    2. Professor
      Professor 4 June 2016 11: 21
      -3
      Quote: Spade
      What is the "border"?

      Golan Heights or whatever they are in Arabic.

      Quote: Spade
      Yes.

      I am happy for them. So the other day I’ll go to Syria for a walk.

      Quote: Spade
      That's it!

      I will call tomorrow my former colleague living in Katzrin, I will make him glad that he is now a Syrian.

      Quote: Spade
      And you in relation to these citizens are obliged to be guided not by the laws of Israel, but by the Hague Convention "On the Laws and Customs of War on Land" (1907), the Geneva Conventions "On the Protection of War Victims" (1949) and Additional Protocols I and II to them (1977)

      Who do we owe? We did not sign these EMNIP conventions.
      We have a very reverent attitude towards our citizens and this article is another example of this. Behind information (for information only) we offer $ 10 million for each of the missing soldiers mentioned in the article. Is it consistent with the Convention on the Laws and Customs of War on Land (1907), the Geneva Conventions for the Protection of Victims of War (1949) and Additional Protocols I and II thereto (1977)?
      1. Lopatov
        Lopatov 4 June 2016 11: 44
        0
        Quote: Professor
        I will make him glad that now he is a Syrian.

        Or a Syrian, or an occupier. Let him decide.


        Quote: Professor
        Who do we owe? We did not sign these EMNIP conventions.

        But from this moment on, very, very detailed ...
        Does Israel consider itself obligated to abide by international rules and customs of war?
        1. tilix
          tilix 4 June 2016 11: 59
          +1
          Does Israel consider itself obligated to abide by international rules and customs of war?
          A very interesting proposal has been drawn up, I also want to try:

          Lopatov does not consider himself obligated to comply with Russian rules and customs of life?
          or
          Lopatov does not consider himself obligated not to beat his wife?
          And so on.
        2. Professor
          Professor 4 June 2016 12: 11
          -4
          Quote: Spade
          Or a Syrian, or an occupier. Let him decide.

          He does not bother with such questions (for me he is the liberator of the Golan, or whatever it is in Arabic wink ) He is a literate Soviet-trained physicist who caused the demise of a scoop in Minsk and is working on the creation of Zionist NVDs in Syria.

          Quote: Spade
          But from this moment on, very, very detailed ...

          What exactly? Not signed and all. Like Russia did not sign.

          Quote: Spade
          Does Israel consider itself obligated to abide by international rules and customs of war?

          Israel does not consider, but observes. Green men without insignia on the territory of a neighboring state-va does not send, although it did not sign this protocol of the Geneva Convention. However, we deviated from the topic under discussion, namely the beautiful gesture of the GDP on the return of the tank to Israel.
          1. Idiot
            Idiot 4 June 2016 14: 13
            +4
            Quote: Professor
            He is a competent physicist from the Soviet period who made the demise of a scoop in Minsk


            It’s worthless to speak so disrespectfully of someone else’s, but a great country with a great past. I am ashamed.
          2. Idiot
            Idiot 4 June 2016 14: 13
            0
            Quote: Professor
            He is a competent physicist from the Soviet period who made the demise of a scoop in Minsk


            It’s worthless to speak so disrespectfully of someone else’s, but a great country with a great past. I am ashamed.
          3. MACCABI-TLV
            MACCABI-TLV 4 June 2016 14: 57
            +3
            Quote: Professor
            Golan or whatever in Arabic

            And by the way, really how will it be in Arabic?
            1. Professor
              Professor 4 June 2016 18: 38
              +2
              Quote: MACCABI-TLV
              And by the way, really how will it be in Arabic?

              But no way. Golan Arab were only 20 in its entire history, and then by mistake. The Arabs had no time to come up with a name for them.
              1. Mordvin 3
                Mordvin 3 4 June 2016 18: 48
                +2
                [quote = РїСЂРѕС „ессор]
                RўRѕRІR ° SЂRoS ‰ RџSЂRѕS "RμSЃSЃRѕSЂ, P'P ° Rј RњRoS ... P ° of the PS RїSЂRoRІRμS, RїRμSЂRμRґR RІR ° ° P" Ryo RїSЂRѕSЃRoR "SЃRєR ° R · R ° S,SЊ C ‡ S,Rѕ R'S <RμSЃS ‚СЊ трус. crying
              2. Professor
                Professor 4 June 2016 18: 50
                +1
                Quote: Mordvin 3
                RўRѕRІR ° SЂRoS ‰ RџSЂRѕS "RμSЃSЃRѕSЂ, P'P ° Rј RњRoS ... P ° of the PS RїSЂRoRІRμS, RїRμSЂRμRґR RІR ° ° P" Ryo RїSЂRѕSЃRoR "SЃRєR ° R · R ° S,SЊ C ‡ S,Rѕ R'S <RμSЃS ‚СЊ трус.

                I do not know this, but greetings to him from a coward. hi
              3. atalef
                atalef 4 June 2016 19: 00
                0
                [quote = mordvin 3] [quote = professor]
                RўRѕRІR ° SЂRoS ‰ RџSЂRѕS "RμSЃSЃRѕSЂ, P'P ° Rј RњRoS ... P ° of the PS RїSЂRoRІRμS, RїRμSЂRμRґR RІR ° ° P" Ryo RїSЂRѕSЃRoR "SЃRєR ° R · R ° S,SЊ C ‡ S,Rѕ R'S <RμSЃS ‚СЊ трус. crying[/ Quote]
                Рђ кто Р'Р ° Р »Р ± ес Рё Р'С‹ РІР ° Р »С‹ Р№?
              4. Mordvin 3
                Mordvin 3 4 June 2016 19: 15
                +4
                Quote: atalef
                Рђ кто Р'Р ° Р »Р ± ес Рё Р'С‹ РІР ° Р »С‹ Р№?

                Рђ это Р'С ‹РІ СЃ своей РєРѕРјРїР ° РЅРёРё СЃР ° РјРё СЂР ° Р · Р ± еритесь. request
    3. Operator
      Operator 4 June 2016 12: 25
      +1
      Naturally, Israel does not comply with what it has not signed.

      Those who, signed, comply with international conventions, since there is a duty of signatories to comply with them in relation to non-signatories.

      But there are countries that do not participate in international conventions, for example, Iran am
      1. atalef
        atalef 4 June 2016 12: 33
        0
        Quote: Operator
        Naturally, Israel does not comply with what it did not sign

        Like everyone else .
        Quote: Operator
        But there are countries that do not participate in international conventions, for example, Iran

        It participates but not in all, like Russia, like any country.
    4. The comment was deleted.
  • MACCABI-TLV
    MACCABI-TLV 4 June 2016 13: 40
    -3
    Quote: Spade
    Quote: Professor
    From this the Golan became Syrian
    Yes.

    It’s very interesting to read you from time to time, but sometimes, you write not permissible nonsense.
    Golan, have no historical, confessional, territorial, and tactical involvement, and value to the Arabs.
  • Akuzenka
    Akuzenka 4 June 2016 14: 10
    0
    To the gunner - "here's a penny for vodka and get out of here."
  • Parsec
    Parsec 4 June 2016 08: 05
    +7
    Quote: Professor
    For example, not the downing of a Russian bomber invading Israeli airspace.


    An example from a stupid layman.
    The depth of interaction between Russia and Israel in the VKS operation is unknown to the average person, and blotting out and throwing up with a weapon? From where, a maximum of false jaws - I want.
  • sabakina
    sabakina 4 June 2016 08: 16
    +5
    Quote: Professor

    For example, not the downing of a Russian bomber invading Israeli airspace.

    Invade aggressors! Boom further arguing? wink
  • Lopatov
    Lopatov 4 June 2016 08: 32
    +2
    Quote: Professor
    For example, not the downing of a Russian bomber invading Israeli airspace.

    It is almost impossible.
    A Russian bomber can fly over part of Syria temporarily occupied by Israel - yes.

    Let me remind you, even the closest allies, the Americans, do not recognize these territories as part of Israel.
  • Revolver
    Revolver 4 June 2016 09: 11
    +4
    Quote: Professor
    Instead, this tank must be put in the Cuban tank Merkava-1.

    If I remember correctly, the Magakhs were no longer left, they went into re-melting. And if you stayed, then why not send to Russia to the museum, everything is better than on needles. Its value as a combat unit in modern tank combat is almost nonexistent, although the Turks still use it.
    1. Professor
      Professor 4 June 2016 09: 21
      +1
      Quote: Nagan
      And if you stayed, then why not send to Russia to the museum, everything is better than on needles.

      Ask and receive.

      The Czechs at one time put forward a condition: the museum tank should be on track and fully loaded. Merkava had to recover.

      1. Parsec
        Parsec 4 June 2016 09: 43
        +7
        Quote: Professor
        Ask and receive.


        Something pulls you for the state of Israel to answer. What, the government has a day off today, they decided to engage in diplomacy at the military academy?

        More modest, more modest.
      2. MACCABI-TLV
        MACCABI-TLV 4 June 2016 13: 44
        0
        it’s amazing how only Merkava didn’t fail in the Czech chernozem ... because it should !!!
        1. Professor
          Professor 4 June 2016 15: 51
          +5
          Quote: MACCABI-TLV
          it’s amazing how only Merkava didn’t fail in the Czech chernozem ... because it should !!!

          Of course, even a schoolchild should know that it was created exclusively for deserts. laughing
    2. A. Privalov
      A. Privalov 6 June 2016 15: 55
      +1
      I came across the following phrase on the Internet today: "Israel will give Russia a similar tank, which will be installed as an exhibit in a museum." Mages are still in reserve units, and in the 460th training I saw them quite recently.
  • lelikas
    lelikas 4 June 2016 11: 48
    +1
    Quote: Professor
    Instead, the tank must be put in the Cuban tank Merkava-1. The Czechs were given, what is worse than Russia?

    Gold words ! Also I think .
  • svp67
    svp67 4 June 2016 13: 29
    +3
    Quote: Professor
    For example, not the downing of a Russian bomber invading Israeli airspace.

    The "intruders" must be shot down immediately, but the "accidentally flown" ones can be asked for. By and large, our Aerospace Forces in Syria help Israel and do not pose any threat to it.
  • Black Colonel
    Black Colonel 4 June 2016 16: 52
    +2
    "invading Israeli airspace."
    Not invading, but flown. The difference is fundamental. And surely, such moments were agreed in advance by the Dark One with Netanyahu
  • Roman 11
    Roman 11 5 June 2016 00: 19
    0
    Quote: Professor
    Instead, the tank must be put in the Cuban tank Merkava-1. The Czechs were given, what is worse than Russia?

    And don’t say that without tanks, this is our nat. property laughing
  • yehat
    yehat 7 June 2016 10: 41
    0
    why not put the 4th carrot into a kubinka? winked
  • iouris
    iouris 4 June 2016 09: 51
    +12
    This tank is not just an exhibit, but an object of research of research work, part of the history of the museum. Making wide gestures in the modern world is not accepted. This is perceived as weakness, and wimps are not respected. My opinion is only an exchange. Moreover, the tank is not relevant. In addition, the museum in Kubinka and the exhibits should receive a certain legal status that protects them from the arbitrariness of officials.
    At the same time, it would be good to conduct a truly independent audit in the Hermitage and the Russian Museum.
    1. MACCABI-TLV
      MACCABI-TLV 4 June 2016 13: 51
      -1
      Quote: iouris
      This tank is not just an exhibit,

      true, he is something to which relatives can come instead of a cemetery grave.
      Quote: iouris
      Making wide gestures in the modern world is not accepted. This is perceived as weakness, and wimps are not respected.

      refuse an identical tank? They asked you, ask you, what is the problem ?!
      to everything, I have already cited this excerpt, and I will give it now.
      "Alexander Roshka
      I believed in it and I still believe! But it's a shame for the state! Very bitter! Because I myself saw all the correspondence and the attitude of all employees to this request - we were against giving this tank free of charge! In the request, the Israelis promised to issue a similar tank and took care of the transportation issue! And now they report that this issue is being discussed! Putin was not exactly informed about the meaning of the request! And he believed the henpecked! "
      http://yuripasholok.livejournal.com/6377455.html
  • Ramzaj99
    Ramzaj99 4 June 2016 13: 02
    0
    Quote: mirag2
    Why the return of the tank is necessary for the Russian government - in general, it is clear too. This is a convenient opportunity for the Russian Federation to demonstrate to Israel its agreement and, albeit indirectly, to strengthen Tel Aviv’s friendly neutrality in the Syrian issue.

    You must not make any concessions with them. And you can’t make any gestures of goodwill, anyway, NOBODY AND NEVER will appreciate it.
    Russophobia is only growing in the press, if a couple of months ago I thought that relations between Russia and Israel could normalize, even against the backdrop of Syrian problems, now I do not believe in it.
    1. Professor
      Professor 4 June 2016 13: 15
      +1
      Quote: Ramzaj99
      You must not make any concessions with them. And you can’t make any gestures of goodwill, anyway, NOBODY AND NEVER will appreciate it.

      Dear, did anyone ask your opinion? And ask? GDP has decided and you can all now sit quietly and breathe evenly. Those who disagree can take part in demonstrations in the streets and squares. That’s why you personally are at the claudia, and not with a poster at the local government building? wink Sofa heroes ...
      1. Ramzaj99
        Ramzaj99 4 June 2016 13: 25
        +3
        Quote: Professor
        That’s why you personally are at the claudia, and not with a poster at the local government building?

        I express my personal opinion on a very specific article. I do not call anyone anywhere and do not indicate what to do.
        And where should I go and what to do "pseudo-Jews" I'm not going to ask.
        1. Professor
          Professor 4 June 2016 13: 30
          -1
          Quote: Ramzaj99
          I express my personal opinion on a very specific article. I do not call anyone anywhere and do not indicate what to do.
          And where should I go and what to do "pseudo-Jews" I'm not going to ask.

          All? Already agree with the decision al al scared? wink I repeat, no one asked you and will not ask, so you can express your opinion in anonymous form on this site or your wife in the kitchen.
          Sorry to be so rude, but this harsh reality of your life. Pseudo-Jews. hi
          1. Ramzaj99
            Ramzaj99 4 June 2016 13: 43
            +1
            What, a man from the promised land, hooked Pseudo-Hebrew))))) True pricks his eyes?
            So do not puff, Even half a year ago it was interesting to read you. Now you are carrying complete crap. Even talking with you is disgusting.
            Goodbye in the emergency.
          2. The comment was deleted.
      2. The comment was deleted.
  • The comment was deleted.
  • killganoff
    killganoff 4 June 2016 20: 30
    +2
    I agree! It was also worth considering the attitude of the Israeli side on what is happening in Ukraine, and why do they turn a blind eye to Bandera marches on the inhabited land? Why are Russian reporters being detained and selected footage of those same marches ?!
  • Camel
    Camel 4 June 2016 06: 46
    +5
    How justified this step will be, the future will show. In the meantime, it is obvious that the museum fund of Kubinka is losing an exhibit with an interesting and unique history. Moreover, the exhibit, which had a great influence on the development of domestic tank building.


    From the article it follows that the influence of this tank has already had (DZ). There are enough other Pattons in Kubinka, but a good attitude from Israel (where our people are a quarter (s)) is not a bad idea to make money out of the blue. And the prospects of exchanging for equivalent equipment, but not yet represented in Kubinka, are also encouraging.
    PS Well, the attitude of Israel towards this particular tank, as to a military grave, and our understanding of this attitude convinces the whole world that Russia respects military graves (anyone else's). To many supporters of the transfer of military monuments and graves in Eastern Europe, this is like a peak in the eye.
    1. carp
      carp 4 June 2016 07: 51
      +4
      A humane step that perfectly reflects the relations of friendly neutrality that has developed between our countries. The question of transferring instead of another exhibit is quite appropriate. Ours have already presented the operating Merkava-1 to the Czech Museum.
      1. rabbi's pais
        rabbi's pais 4 June 2016 18: 37
        0
        Quote: carpag
        Ours have already presented the operating Merkava-1 to the Czech Museum.

        Beat the Czechs. You make a trampy fit for our museum. It will be a beautiful move, which
        Quote: carpag
        perfectly reflects the relations of friendly neutrality that has developed between our countries.

        PS Something descended from the descendants of Moses, for free distributing nishtyaki. At this pace you will remain without port.
      2. The comment was deleted.
    2. zadorin1974
      zadorin1974 4 June 2016 08: 00
      +8
      Dmitry! I want to upset you right away. As you put it, a quarter our people will be glad if such a state Russia disappears and this quarter tries to get enough of it (there is enough Jewish participation in the preparation of Georgians and Hohrai militants at the moment, in Karabakh, Jews They also noted). Friendly relations with Israel on the Syrian issue are held on the S-400 (otherwise Jews would continue to launch air strikes on the Syrian government forces and Hezbollah). Exchange prospects should be voiced by both parties, but rather by paper signatures. At the expense of the grave "Where is the documentary evidence? From Cuba, you can start demanding half of the equipment. And at the expense of Europe, you know at least ssi in their eyes."
      1. Camel
        Camel 4 June 2016 08: 46
        +3
        I’ll try to clarify my consideration: I (as a citizen of Russia) do not even have a shadow of the thought that Israel will kindle towards us after returning the tank to them. Israel will still remain in the zone of a potential adversary, but friendly actions on our part can help both bilateral relations with Israel and improve our image in the international arena.

        Also, emphasize, if Jews treat this tank as a monument / grave, then it is necessary to return it (the tank) to them, and it is much more profitable to do this in good faith - this will add points in the international game and improve the attitude of Israelis towards us (not much , but in +), well, maybe Kubinka will have something new.

        Well, just humanly give it back to ... er we now need him, but people are pleased! bully
        1. atalef
          atalef 4 June 2016 10: 16
          0
          Quote: Camel
          I’ll try to clarify my consideration: I (as a citizen of Russia) do not even have a shadow of the thought that Israel will kindle towards us after returning the tank to them

          There will be ordinary gratitude and understanding
          Quote: Camel
          zrail will still remain in the zone of a likely adversary

          Israel has never been an adversary of either the USSR or Russia.

          Quote: Camel
          but friendly actions on our part can help both bilateral relations with Israel and improve our image in the international arena.

          We still have pretty good relations, I would even say, much better than many would like to
          Quote: Camel
          In addition, I emphasize that if Jews regard this tank as a monument / grave, then it is necessary to return it (the tank) to them,

          That’s the way they are, we have enough other tanks
      2. carp
        carp 4 June 2016 08: 54
        -1
        The S-400 has absolutely nothing to do with it. We continue to target weapons caravans for Hezbollah and this is agreed with the GDP. Just as our air defense did not shoot down Russian planes that invaded our airspace. This is called "friendly neutrality"
        1. sa-ag
          sa-ag 4 June 2016 09: 14
          +3
          Quote: carpag
          We continue to target weapons caravans for Hezbollah and this is agreed with the GDP. Just as our air defense did not shoot down Russian planes that invaded our airspace. This is called "friendly neutrality"

          It all looks interesting, Hezbollah is like helping the Syrians in the fight against ISIS, the Air Force is also involved in this, the Israel Defense Forces are bombing Hezbollah and "... This is called" friendly neutrality ":-) It seems that Iran and Hezbollah are being pursued some interests, the Smirian army or part of it, another RF Aerospace Forces, the third, the Kurds, the fourth, ISIS (or rather, who is behind it), it is clear that their business is where these interests intersect
          1. Kaiten
            Kaiten 6 June 2016 23: 07
            0
            Quote: sa-ag
            One gets the impression that Iran and Hizbullah are pursuing the same interests, the Syrian army or part of another VKS of the Russian Federation third, Kurds fourth, ISIS (or rather, who is behind it) clearly their own business, somewhere these interests intersect

            I guessed ... .. And 5 years of the war in Syria did not pass
        2. Idiot
          Idiot 4 June 2016 11: 02
          +1
          Quote: carpag
          The S-400 has absolutely nothing to do with it. We continue to target weapons caravans for Hezbollah and this is agreed with the GDP. Just as our air defense did not shoot down Russian planes that invaded our airspace. This is called "friendly neutrality"



          Keyword - agreed. Without a hint of exclusivity. Then everything works out for everyone: the haberdasher and the cardinal are power!
        3. rabbi's pais
          rabbi's pais 4 June 2016 13: 12
          +1
          Quote: carpag
          Just as our air defense did not shoot down Russian planes that invaded our airspace

          Ooooooooooooooooo dokatilsya.Uzhe yourself compared to the frostbitten Turks. belay
      3. Professor
        Professor 4 June 2016 09: 14
        -2
        Quote: zadorin1974
        Benevolent relations with Israel on the Syrian issue are held on the S-400 (otherwise Jews would continue to launch air strikes against the Syrian government forces and Hezbollah).

        Have these strikes stopped? wink
    3. Lopatov
      Lopatov 4 June 2016 08: 35
      +2
      Quote: Camel
      but a good attitude from Israel (where a quarter of our people are (s)) earning out of the blue is not bad.

      Not bad. But unrealistic.
      1. atalef
        atalef 4 June 2016 10: 17
        -2
        Quote: Spade
        Quote: Camel
        but a good attitude from Israel (where a quarter of our people are (s)) earning out of the blue is not bad.

        Not bad. But unrealistic.

        We remember the good, as well as the bad.
        1. Lopatov
          Lopatov 4 June 2016 11: 14
          +7
          You take good things for granted, not considering yourself obligated.

          As in the saying "Where you don't kiss a soldier - everywhere is w * pa" (c)
          1. atalef
            atalef 4 June 2016 11: 21
            -3
            Quote: Spade
            You take good for granted.

            Due? Why?

            Quote: Spade
            not considering themselves obligated.

            Do you always do good for future commitments?
            Quote: Spade
            As in the proverb "Where you don't kiss a soldier - everywhere f * ck

            You know best.
            1. Lopatov
              Lopatov 4 June 2016 11: 47
              +4
              Quote: atalef
              Due? Why?

              I am not a Jew and not a citizen of Israel. How do I know?
              1. atalef
                atalef 4 June 2016 12: 00
                0
                Quote: Spade
                Quote: atalef
                Due? Why?

                I am not a Jew and not a citizen of Israel. How do I know?

                I don’t know, but I affirm.
                What is good about Lopatov is constancy.
                A sign of mastery good
                1. rabbi's pais
                  rabbi's pais 4 June 2016 12: 47
                  0
                  Quote: atalef
                  What is good about Lopatov is constancy.

                  What’s good about you Karish is gouging good
                  1. atalef
                    atalef 4 June 2016 12: 49
                    0
                    Quote: rabbi's paisas
                    Quote: atalef
                    What is good about Lopatov is constancy.

                    What’s good about you Karish is gouging good

                    Zakhoder or Bender?
                    Although of course maybe Krasmash.
                    laughing
                    Well with the return hi
                    1. rabbi's pais
                      rabbi's pais 4 June 2016 12: 56
                      +1
                      Quote: atalef
                      Zakhoder or Bender?
                      Although of course maybe Krasmash.
                      laughing
                      Well with the return

                      Passing identification is clearly not your hobby. I look, you're all having fun, not like some of your relatives.
                      1. atalef
                        atalef 4 June 2016 12: 59
                        -2
                        Quote: the rabbi's sideboards
                        Identification is clearly not your thing.

                        Yes, how many of you were in 5 years - I won’t remember everyone
                        Quote: the rabbi's sideboards
                        I see you all have fun, not like some of your relatives.

                        I didn’t see any of them crying.
                      2. rabbi's pais
                        rabbi's pais 4 June 2016 13: 02
                        +2
                        Quote: atalef
                        Yes, how many of you were in 5 years - I won’t remember everyone

                        And how much you here "defectors", the population of all Bira will be typed
  • Simpsonian
    Simpsonian 4 June 2016 10: 25
    +5
    Quote: Camel
    From the article it follows that the influence of this tank has already had (DZ).

    such armor in the USSR "feverishly made" a quarter of a century before, and put under the cloth
    with a strange formulation that in the era of nuclear weapons a great war is not expected, and we do not conduct aggressive ones with the Papuans.
    1. atalef
      atalef 4 June 2016 10: 28
      -1
      Quote: Simpsonian
      Quote: Camel
      From the article it follows that the influence of this tank has already had (DZ).

      such armor in the USSR "feverishly made" a quarter of a century before, and put under the cloth

      Such as you listen, so in general - everything that was invented in the world was invented long ago in the USSR, but for some reason it was put under the cloth.
      So the questions begin - whether there was a lot of cloth, or not with the country, or you are lying to my friend.
      1. Simpsonian
        Simpsonian 4 June 2016 11: 09
        +1
        Such as you should be. And then he left, and from there we were ... but.

        In all senses, as later Israeli tankers went to the ground floor of the Soviet Embassy in Beirut in 1982, put off their larvae.

        An interview with one of the creators of the Soviet DZ is easily found and looks on YouTube.
      2. zadorin1974
        zadorin1974 4 June 2016 11: 19
        +3
        Yes, the country is such, and there was enough cloth Alexander. The Arena complex was developed in the 80s, he joined the troops just now (in Chechnya how many lives would have been saved). It is worth visiting the factory museums and you begin to understand how we could live, what to ride and what the equipment could be used. I myself have personally visited the closed museums of the former "boxes", after that it is always the same question: WELL WHY?
        1. Simpsonian
          Simpsonian 4 June 2016 11: 34
          +1
          The complex, like everyone exported to the United States or Israel, and it has already been there for a long time - it is their lives that must be saved, and not Russian youth, so that later only their children play in the sandbox ... Who knows, maybe with this DZ it was also ...
        2. The comment was deleted.
        3. atalef
          atalef 4 June 2016 11: 44
          -1
          Quote: zadorin1974
          It is worth visiting the factory museums and you begin to understand how we could live, what to ride and what equipment we could use. I myself have personally visited the closed museums of the former "boxes", after that there is always the same question: WELL WHY?

          probably something was not right in the system, well, as in the DPRK now - there is a bomb, but there is nothing to eat.
          I would like to recall one anecdote, I'm afraid they will not be adequately perceived.
          The company bought a Mercedes plant AvtoVAZ.
          Reconfigured production, start the conveyor ...
          Bam! at the exit of the Lada!

          They dismantled the equipment, drove a new one from Germany, installed
          set up, run.
          !!! Lada again!

          Why all the plant personnel are dismissed, workers are brought from Germany,
          establish, check, launch.
          ! At the exit again - Lada!

          There is a hill near the plant; the chief engineer and director of the plant rest on it
          (both with the prefix "ex"). Look at it all.
          Engineer to Director:
          - And I told you - the place is damned! And then all "hands from the ass, hands from
          ass "...
        4. MACCABI-TLV
          MACCABI-TLV 4 June 2016 13: 57
          0
          Quote: zadorin1974
          .The Arena complex in the 80s was developed, he just joined the troops

          Do you have a photo of combat tanks with an arena (not exhibit items)? I would be grateful if you share.
        5. Idiot
          Idiot 4 June 2016 14: 46
          +5
          I read the memoirs of the Soviet engineer E.G. Ledin, the inventor of RDX. At the end of the war, he met an officer from the people's commissariat of ammunition in the subway (I won’t indicate his name because I don’t want anyone to remember this bastard) and he frankly stated that you, Comrade Ledin, could only introduce your inventions because US in Moscow was not. THERE (assholes from the fifth column) were not in Moscow, for the reason that they were cowardly evacuated in 1941. Here is the answer to your question WHY. And there are enough assholes today. They have children, grandchildren have grown up. They continue the work of their ancestors, unfortunately not shot ...
          1. hohol95
            hohol95 4 June 2016 15: 58
            -2
            Hexogen Ledin did not invent!
      3. Idiot
        Idiot 4 June 2016 14: 22
        +1
        Quote: atalef
        Such as you listen, so in general - everything that was invented in the world was invented long ago in the USSR, but for some reason it was put under the cloth. So the questions begin - whether there was a lot of cloth, or whether it’s not my country or my friend lying.


        In something you are right. We know how to fight, but do not like.
      4. Idiot
        Idiot 4 June 2016 14: 22
        +1
        Quote: atalef
        Such as you listen, so in general - everything that was invented in the world was invented long ago in the USSR, but for some reason it was put under the cloth. So the questions begin - whether there was a lot of cloth, or whether it’s not my country or my friend lying.


        In something you are right. We know how to fight, but do not like.
  • gladcu2
    gladcu2 4 June 2016 14: 14
    +2
    Camel

    A memorial table with the names of the last crew could be attached and left in the museum. Moreover, this is the most honorable place.

    Reflections somehow haunt the role of this event.

    State tank. Requirements to return it based on the requirements of relatives. Something does not fit. Relatives that they were going to pick up this tank.

    Where will they put it? To your parking lot?

    Does anyone know what they’ll do with this tank in Israel?
    1. atalef
      atalef 4 June 2016 14: 26
      -3
      Quote: gladcu2
      Does anyone know what they’ll do with this tank in Israel?

      Strange, in all comments there is no mention of
      Unified Morality and Aristotle belay
      Has something changed in the Danish (sorry Canadian) kingdom?
  • kugelblitz
    kugelblitz 4 June 2016 06: 50
    +3
    Hmm, let them offer something really interesting in return, Merkava at least, since they have so much desire to return to this tank. Or from Europe they pull out what thread a rare tank that is not in the collection. For example, Italian M13 / 40, Swedish or Austrian cars, Leopard, AMX30.
    1. alpamys
      alpamys 4 June 2016 07: 13
      +5
      Quote: kugelblitz
      Hmm, let them offer something really interesting in return, Merkava at least, since they have so much desire to return to this tank. Or from Europe they pull out what thread a rare tank that is not in the collection. For example, Italian M13 / 40, Swedish or Austrian cars, Leopard, AMX30.

      "what has fallen from the cart is gone" why give out what is not obtained by you? I do not understand here GDP.
      1. kugelblitz
        kugelblitz 4 June 2016 07: 20
        +1
        Quote: alpamys
        why give out

        I agree, only barter, I agree to the "Chariot"! lol
      2. PHANTOM-AS
        PHANTOM-AS 4 June 2016 11: 36
        +2
        I try to recall that the Jews gave it to someone for free, but unfortunately, it doesn’t work out. request
        They demanded a library from us, now they’ll take the tank out and put it down.
        And on the other hand, the attitude of the local government towards its citizens causes good envy, our authorities are not capable of this.
        1. The comment was deleted.
    2. MACCABI-TLV
      MACCABI-TLV 4 June 2016 13: 59
      +2
      Quote: kugelblitz
      Hmm, let them offer something really interesting in return, at least Merkava

      I would (personally) ask Merkava for the same (and as a maximum).
  • DesToeR
    DesToeR 4 June 2016 07: 23
    +6
    Quote: kugelblitz
    Hmm, let them offer something really interesting in return, Merkava at least, since they have so much desire to return to this tank.

    Of course, it is a pity to give such a sample of equipment, especially with a specific combat history, which greatly increases its value as a museum exhibit. The Jews may give something in return, but it is unethical to arrange direct, open bargaining in such a situation. In this whole situation, something else is surprising. The Israelis, if that battle and the missing soldiers are really important to them, could buy / exchange this tank in the "dashing 90s" and no one would notice it - they took away much more valuable museum exhibits throughout the country. The question is, why now?
    1. Mordvin 3
      Mordvin 3 4 June 2016 11: 36
      +3
      Quote: DesToeR
      The Israelis, if that battle and the missing soldiers are really important to them, could buy / exchange this tank in the "dashing 90s" and no one would have noticed it -

      РҐРѕСЂРѕС € РёР№ РІРѕРїСЂРѕСЃ. Тем Р ± РѕР »РµРµ, СЗ С‚Рѕ РІ90-Рµ Россией СЂСѓР» РёР »Рё СЃРїР» РѕС € СЊ евреи. R'RμSЂRμR RѕRІSЃRєRoR№ · P "SѓSЃRoRЅSЃRєRoR№, RҐRѕRґRѕSЂRєRѕRІSЃRєRoR№ RњRѕR¶RμS ..., C-S,Rѕ RμRіRѕ ‡ P ± RѕR" SЊS € RμRіRѕ RѕS,RμR C ... "Ryo, C ‡ RμRј S,R ° RЅRє?
    2. Idiot
      Idiot 4 June 2016 15: 13
      +1
      In Kubinka, two-thirds of the exhibits with a specific combat history, especially those made during the Great Patriotic War. In this case, the country's leadership, in my opinion, is doing the right thing. From such insignificant, from the point of view of global geopolitics, concessions, serious regional benefits are formed in the future. Consider the political, moral and ethical resonance that the return of the tank to Israel will have. And here is the answer to the question why now? Because we are in Syria and, I think, for a long time. Is it worth bringing this tank back in order to create a positive rating for Russia in Israel? In my opinion it's worth it. Moreover, not Soviet tankers (possibly) died in it. For our Russian mentality, this tank has no meaning. And for them it is a relic, as for us the T-34 on a pedestal ... But Kubinka will not diminish, ask how many exhibits they have in storage, are not exhibited. As for me, I studied German tanks there with great interest. This was really impressive, especially the 600mm mortar "Adam", by the way, the first of six built and transferred to the troops. Or the only copy of "Mouse" in the world. This really should not be given to anyone. Because these are trophies of OUR army, obtained in battle.
  • Darwin
    Darwin 4 June 2016 07: 31
    0
    I am also against the fact that the tank will be surrendered, but on the other hand, if you look at the tank it’s not given in advance for a good attitude, but for the fact that for the recent events in Syria. The difference between the two states like Israel and Turkey is obvious. PS And most importantly, we cannot know all the details of this agreement.
    1. creak
      creak 4 June 2016 09: 38
      0
      Quote: Darwin
      And most importantly, we cannot know all the details of this agreement.


      And indeed, why do we need the foolish to know all the subtleties of such a delicate diplomatic game. Not matured yet, not our mind business ....
  • Gardamir
    Gardamir 4 June 2016 07: 56
    -1
    Glory to our world president himself. Having returned all the savchenko and tanks, having forgiven everyone their debts. By 2030, our president will finally deal with Russia. This is a tricky plan like that. You hold on there.
    1. Pilat2009
      Pilat2009 4 June 2016 08: 53
      +5
      Quote: Gardamir
      Returning all the savoryok and tanks

      You from Savchenko would like to make a bogey martyr? Well, exchanged it for ours, give it muddy water, we have less expense
      In general, I do not see any tragedy in the transfer of the tank, especially if for an exchange.
      Israel is very kind to its military personnel, it is worthy of respect.
      1. Gardamir
        Gardamir 4 June 2016 20: 37
        -4
        bogey martyr
        Why was Stalin not afraid to make a martyr from Paulus? Could exchange for General Karbyshev. What do you call victory any retreat?
  • Volga Cossack
    Volga Cossack 4 June 2016 07: 58
    +2
    for me only an exchange. I think it’s with Blazer that we have no tanks in the storage tanks. and therefore a unique pattern.
  • The comment was deleted.
  • The comment was deleted.
  • masiya
    masiya 4 June 2016 09: 23
    0
    Of course it's a pity for the exhibit, but it's too late to "cry through the hair" if everything is decided at the state level, then so be it.
  • erased
    erased 4 June 2016 09: 25
    +3
    No wonder the tank is being given. No replacement even. And it’s not very surprising that the T-54/55 and IS-3M tanks are not asking back. It was impossible to claim anything from the Soviet Union. No restitution and other garbage. But we are not in the USSR.
    1. Lopatov
      Lopatov 4 June 2016 10: 08
      +6
      Right The weakness of a country determines the weakness of its foreign policy.

      But this is the road to nowhere. Suffice it to recall how Norway thanked for the territorial gift from Medvedev. They took it for granted. And therefore they do not consider themselves obligated by something.

      The weak are beaten.
  • King, just king
    King, just king 4 June 2016 09: 55
    -2
    140000000 with a tail of millions. Well, let 2 million people regret that they gave the tank away. 138 million in general in parallel. THERE, their calculations and benefits, unknown to us. Gave it, then it’s necessary. It would be a pity, of course, if the Jews did not give anything in return.
    They sold the Hermitage masterpieces, it was also necessary that the current wiseacres did not write there.

    I, here, too, when I read a couple of days ago - I thought, ah, su .., how so? And by common sense, of course, the whole country asked - we must give it back.
  • Yak28
    Yak28 4 June 2016 10: 22
    -6
    Those who were in Kubinka saw that military equipment was covered with a thick layer of dust, many hangars had perforated roofs and leaked in the rain. (But there are many foreign tourists, what a disgrace) Maintenance of equipment is not conducted or is poorly conducted, exhibits are in a scruffy condition , so let the tank stand better in Israel, there though they will wipe the dust. wink
    1. KOMA
      KOMA 4 June 2016 12: 58
      +2
      You are a male storyteller, however, there is no dust on the tanks on the Kubinka, how many times I have been there, I did not find it, the tanks are painted, the roofs are whole. So please do not write about what you have never seen yourself!
      1. kugelblitz
        kugelblitz 4 June 2016 13: 21
        +2
        Moreover, they also drive themselves! fellow

      2. The comment was deleted.
  • tilix
    tilix 4 June 2016 10: 55
    +5
    It is emerging that in February Netanyau promised Putin to draw Russia into negotiations to resume the peace process between Israel and Abbas’s autonomy. The time is wonderful of course, Hamas is entirely for the Sunnis in Syria, Abbas is on the verge of self-destruction. It will be interesting.
    1. atalef
      atalef 4 June 2016 11: 24
      0
      Quote: tilix
      Abbas on the verge of self-destruction. It will be interesting.

      Yes, the same thing happened with Abbasov recently that happened with Arafat (after the occupation of Kuwait by Saddam), it looks like all his Arab brothers put an end to it (or a crescent?) laughing
      1. tilix
        tilix 4 June 2016 11: 46
        +1
        Abbas - Abesovskaya .., or whatever it is in the classics.
  • bandabas
    bandabas 4 June 2016 11: 31
    +4
    As in Brother 2 - "We Russians do not deceive each other" Yes, yes.
  • CORNET
    CORNET 4 June 2016 11: 46
    +4
    Quote: sabakina
    Quote: Professor

    For example, not the downing of a Russian bomber invading Israeli airspace.

    Invade aggressors! Boom further arguing? wink

    I’m on the blacklist of ProfSoror, is he stirring up water there again? Coward ...! Hello to him ... hi
  • The comment was deleted.
    1. atalef
      atalef 4 June 2016 12: 02
      0
      Quote: RuslanNN
      “I thank the President of Russia Vladimir Putin, who responded to my request to return the Israeli tank that was shot down during the battle at Sultan-Yaakub during the first Lebanon war.
      Deflection is counted.

      Whose?
  • DesToeR
    DesToeR 4 June 2016 12: 17
    0
    Quote: King, just king
    And by common sense, of course, the whole country asked - we must give it back.

    So tomorrow Germany will ask for a unique Mouse, Great Britain wants its Centurion, etc. Kubinka is the richest museum exhibit
  • Pushkar
    Pushkar 4 June 2016 13: 27
    +3
    The piece of iron is not unique, everything that was needed, our experts have long studied, there was no historical exhibit for Russia (the Syrians fought with the Israelis, not us). Why not respect. A bazaar with an anti-Semitic darling to read, by golly, is not interesting.
    1. Chisayna
      Chisayna 4 June 2016 14: 20
      -4
      Whom to respect? What blood spoke, anti-Semitism remembered.
  • Yak28
    Yak28 4 June 2016 13: 39
    -1
    Quote: KOMA
    in Cuba, dust on tanks, how many times was there, did not find

    In September last year, the dust was in Kubinka’s dust on all the equipment, and the roofs of all hangars except the German one where Mouse stood were flowing. And the storyteller is you. White coating on the tank is dust that does not accumulate for 1 month
  • realist
    realist 4 June 2016 13: 45
    0
    Is a museum exhibit significant value for Israel? it was necessary to change, and first they bring another exhibit and then pick up this one! Do not believe promises, it’s illogical! Merkava is not interesting: a large heavy armored personnel carrier, on which you can’t drive over any bridge in Russia! puncture of Russian diplomacy ...................
  • partizan86
    partizan86 4 June 2016 14: 16
    0
    Where this car over the years just did not visit.
  • Andrey VOV
    Andrey VOV 4 June 2016 14: 33
    +3
    And how it all started well ... solely about the fact that this tank is such, a brief history of its creation ... and that it decided to transfer its GDP ... and then it started, but they gave it to such steppes that you won’t understand guys, what are you talking about? Well, I want to know about the history of Judaism, for God's sake, but not against the background of an article about a tank, albeit an Israeli one, well, this is an example ... well, probably all adults, but behave like in the studio of the first channel when everything yelling foolishly and not a damn thing they hear ...
  • MACCABI-TLV
    MACCABI-TLV 4 June 2016 15: 03
    +1
    Why just change the color of the tank I do not understand? Maybe not a good lighting when taking pictures, but the color of Magah in Kubinka is not original.
  • Chisayna
    Chisayna 4 June 2016 15: 28
    -2
    I don’t understand why Jewish children sat up to their throats in liquid fertilizer. Of course, they can do feats like the Soviet pioneers could not do. See the list of Schindler, her mood will rise.
    1. MACCABI-TLV
      MACCABI-TLV 4 June 2016 16: 30
      +2
      wait, I’ll lie on the floor now, to be on the same level with you, and understand what you really want to say and what semantic load your messages carry.
      1. atalef
        atalef 4 June 2016 17: 16
        +1
        Quote: MACCABI-TLV
        wait, I’ll lie on the floor now, to be on the same level with you, and understand what you really want to say and what semantic load your messages carry.

        What is Chiisana measured again by plinth levels? laughing
        Chiisana, don’t worry - the baseboard is all yours.
  • Chisayna
    Chisayna 4 June 2016 17: 12
    -5
    It’s better to immerse yourself in liquid oud, like your relatives, then you will understand. And you will never be on a par with me. I am not a repatriate, a migrant.
    1. Aaron Zawi
      Aaron Zawi 4 June 2016 17: 37
      +4
      Quote: Chisain
      It’s better to immerse yourself in liquid oud, like your relatives, then you will understand. And you will never be on a par with me. I am not a repatriate, a migrant.

      That is yes. Here's an example of a migrant worker Avigdor Lieberman. Where is he up to you.
  • tilix
    tilix 4 June 2016 17: 43
    +4
    Quote: Chisayna It is better to immerse yourself in liquid oud, like your relatives, then you will understand.
    Well, again, a lover of a glance into the rectum appeared. Although he is probably a professional.
  • rabbi's pais
    rabbi's pais 4 June 2016 18: 13
    -3
    Quote: tilix
    Well, again, a lover of a glance into the rectum appeared. Although he is probably a professional.

    Quote: Aron Zaavi
    That is yes. Here's an example of a migrant worker Avigdor Lieberman. Where is he up to you.

    Quote: MACCABI-TLV
    wait, I’ll lie on the floor now, to be on the same level with you, and understand what you really want to say and what semantic load your messages carry.

    Quote: atalef
    What is Chiisana measured again by plinth levels? laughing
    Chiisana, don’t worry - the baseboard is all yours.

    Well, you guys have outlived Ptakh, Mikhan, a padded jacket and Krasmash with your kagal. Now get a great fighter against treacherous women.hi
    1. tilix
      tilix 4 June 2016 22: 52
      +1
      Yes Valera, your friends have gone, a hereditary rotor, a fan of peeping into the rectum.
      As they say, tell me who your friend is.
      1. rabbi's pais
        rabbi's pais 5 June 2016 11: 48
        +2
        You turned up. Nothing, it happens. Or shoot your informant, who merges lime information.
  • Chisayna
    Chisayna 4 June 2016 19: 01
    -6
    No, I don’t fight them so much for fun. Here I have a maternal grandfather, working in the management of Kraslag, from 1944 to 1955 not badly reduced the number of captured enemies of the people. But not enough. Here.
    1. Pushkar
      Pushkar 5 June 2016 00: 11
      +4
      Looks like Jews hurt you hard. By mother. But you are strong. Was he checked for purity of blood, did he measure the skull? And the shape of the ears? sad
      1. Chisayna
        Chisayna 5 June 2016 00: 35
        -4
        Yeah, then grandfather from 1955 to 1984 was the 1st (first) secretary of the party’s district committee. I wanted to offend anyone. We were Jewish in our school, their parents were exiled. So after school, we’re 8-10-12 in general, they met these Jews and drove to an abandoned construction site and did what they wanted with them. That's it, I won’t whine like some of them who didn’t finish my grandmother’s Petliuraites.
        1. Idiot
          Idiot 5 June 2016 13: 30
          +2
          You are some kind, uncle. Even somehow flush to read you. Whose will you be, grandson of the first secretary?
          1. rabbi's pais
            rabbi's pais 5 June 2016 18: 42
            0
            Quote: pft, fkb
            You are some kind, uncle. Even somehow flush to read you. Whose will you be, grandson of the first secretary?


            This is not a conversation. Jews between themselves do not sort things out, so we Slavs need to act. We don’t have to run into our compatriot, even if he is an anti-Semite.
        2. The comment was deleted.
    2. rabbi's pais
      rabbi's pais 5 June 2016 18: 49
      +1
      Quote: Chisain
      No, I don’t fight them like that for fun.

      Here it is such a special one. Each Jew needs his own approach, well, as a woman. They, in general, are normal people. I recall how I began to communicate with them ............ , yes. Well, at least our senior comrades supported, otherwise there would have been an ambush.
  • Skifotavr
    Skifotavr 4 June 2016 22: 06
    +1
    The fact that the USSR had a considerable amount of captured Israeli armored vehicles handed over to it by the Arabs was, of course, suspected by the IDF. But Israel did not have specific data on this topic for a long time.
    To be continued?
  • Roman 11
    Roman 11 4 June 2016 23: 57
    +1
    why an Israeli tank from Kubinka will go home Jews normal guys -im can laughing

    And here is the zebra, pooh and they bite laughing
  • Cat man null
    Cat man null 5 June 2016 00: 09
    +2
    To summarize, then we we have an exchange of obvious historical value for unobvious Israeli sympathies. How justified this step will be, the future will show. In the meantime, it is obvious that the museum fund of Kubinka is losing an exhibit with an interesting and unique history. Moreover, the exhibit, which had a great influence on the development of domestic tank building.

    - to the author "two"
    - change it, this "tank" .. in quotes - because it is @ God early, and not a tank, at the moment
    - the fact that this is a monument, sort of like, for three Jews - well, it's only their business
    - the noise because of this nedotank was raised, damn it .. in the 90s such (and not yet) crap was taken out by echelons - no one, damn it, was buzzing .. campaign, with a journalist with themes .. not really request
  • netslave
    netslave 5 June 2016 02: 17
    +1
    "delivered to Kubinka from the Middle East, with welded turret hatches and the remains of a dead crew inside"
    I also heard this story from the guide when I was in Kubinka a couple of years ago.
    1. Mwg
      Mwg 6 June 2016 12: 23
      0
      And this bike was also altered and there were reports of tanks with the remains of the crew, allegedly brought from Donbass to the Voronezh Tank Repair Plant. Here is such a wonderful transformation of rumors and tales
  • rus-5819
    rus-5819 5 June 2016 11: 43
    +1
    The story was just a tale, but it made the Israelis begin a test,

    I've heard this story personally. At what not only the Israelis tried, but our journalists. They say that some enterprising warrant officer-communications officer "betrayed the secret" that the corpses were buried right "somewhere here." As a result, I got an excellent trench, and the journalists did a great job with shovels.
  • Professor
    Professor 6 June 2016 11: 48
    0
    Netanyahu goes to Moscow,
    The head of government will visit the museum of armored vehicles and equipment in Kubinka, which houses an Israeli tank captured during the battle near the village of Sultan-Yaakub. The tank will be returned to Israel at the request of Prime Minister Netanyahu, which he expressed during his last visit to Moscow. Russian President Vladimir Putin signed a presidential decree a week ago to return the tank to Israel. Israel will give Russia a similar tank, which will be installed as an exhibit in the museum.
  • Mwg
    Mwg 6 June 2016 12: 13
    0
    And in my opinion, Russia in the person of the President showed the usual human feeling - empathy for the loss of relatives and relatives of missing persons. This is how we would have found a plane in a swamp that has been missing since the war with the crew. Relatives are hoping, maybe in the technique some personal things remained, there, or some notes. So, purely from a human point of view?
    1. fix
      fix 6 June 2016 13: 12
      0
      And the truth is the topic has not been revealed: why is the tank to Israel.
      Perhaps there were no personal things left - they studied the tank, delved into it. Worship like a grave? - So it was easier to bring relatives to Moscow. Set as a monument? - so its enough.
  • BAI
    BAI 6 June 2016 15: 19
    0
    1. The capital of Israel is Jerusalem, not Tel Aviv.
    2. For which Israel has always respected and respect, this is for the attitude towards its military personnel. Can anyone imagine that the Russian government will attend to the memory of the tank crew that died in an ordinary battle 35 years ago?
  • A. Privalov
    A. Privalov 6 June 2016 16: 13
    +2
    Today I came across the following phrase somewhere on the Internet: "Israel will give Russia a similar tank, which will be installed as an exhibit in a museum."

    As far as I know, MAGAHs are still in reserve parts, and in the 460 tutorial I saw them quite recently.

    As for the "Merkava", it is high time to go with it to the competition in tank biathlon in Alabino - to shake the armor, shake off the impassable Russian dust on the mud, pop a little on the bears ... It's a pity that the Russians do not allow ladies to compete. We have such instructors that you can't take your eyes off. And experts in the tank business are extra class!
  • pogis
    pogis 6 June 2016 18: 20
    0
    But what do the citizens of Israel think about it, watch from 6: 40!