Military Review

If the Finns wanted to, or Once again about the Winter War

112



The Soviet-Finnish war (1939-1940) certainly takes a special place in stories of our country, and it must be considered in conjunction with the situation that prevailed in the world at that time. From spring to autumn 1939, the situation was heating up, and the approach of war was felt. The leadership of the United States, Britain and France believed that Germany would attack the USSR. However, Germany was not yet ready for such a step, and soon concluded a military alliance with Italy, directed not only against the USSR, but also against England, France and Poland. In order to look more decent in the eyes of the world community, the Anglo-French politicians decided to start negotiations with the USSR, during which the Soviet side sought to conclude a military agreement to prevent fascist aggression. To implement this, we developed a plan for the deployment of Soviet troops and the countries participating in the negotiations to jointly repel possible aggression. The theme of the plan was discussed at a meeting of military missions in mid-August 1939. Our military delegation proposed the development and signing of a military convention that accurately determined the number of divisions to be allocated, tanks, aircraft and naval squadrons for joint action by the contracting parties. Seeing that the delegations of Britain and France were not going to sign such a convention, the USSR was forced to complete further negotiations.

In an effort to eliminate the possibility of war on two fronts (in Europe - with Germany and in the East - with Japan), the USSR accepted the offer of the Germans to conclude a non-aggression pact. Poland, which pinned all hopes on the British and French, refused to cooperate with our country and turned out to be almost alone, becoming an easy prey for the aggressor. When, after the German attack, the Polish army was on the verge of a catastrophe, the Soviet troops undertook a campaign in Western Ukraine and Western Belarus, and in 12 days advanced in places to 350 kilometers. The shift of the Soviet border to the west had a positive effect on the strategic position of our country. The signing of mutual assistance pacts with the Baltic states in the fall of 1939 also contributed to the enhancement of the defense capability of the Soviet Union.

If the western border could be secured, then in the northwestern section the situation remained difficult. Even before the revolution, Finland was part of the Russian Empire, and earlier (more than six centuries) was under the domination of Sweden. In the struggle of Russia and Finland, the issue of access to the Baltic Sea became vital for the former. In 1700, Peter I began the Northern War with Sweden, which lasted until the 1721 year. As a result of its victorious completion, Karelia, Vyborg, Kexholm, the southern coast of the Gulf of Finland, the Gulf of Riga and many islands withdrew to Russia. Having defeated Sweden, Peter I generously ceded Finland to her, but the relations of the states were again tense, and in 1808, a war broke out between them, as a result, Finland completely retired to Russia as an autonomous principality with its constitution and diet. But these rights were then curtailed by the tsarist government, and Finland became one of the outskirts of the Russian Empire.

The right of nations to self-determination proclaimed after the revolution gave Finland a real opportunity to become an independent, independent state. After reviewing the Finnish Seym resolution of 6 on December 1917 of declaring Finland an independent state and the appeal of his government to recognize this, the All-Russian Central Executive Committee 4 of January 1918 recognized Finland’s independence. The new Finnish government transferred its distrust of Russia to the Soviet Republic. 7 March 1918, it entered into an agreement with Germany, after the defeat of which in World War I reoriented to the Entente. With regards to our country, the Finnish government retained a hostile attitude and already in May broke off relations, and later openly and disguisedly fought against Soviet Russia.

The victories of the Red Army in the Civil War and over the interventionists prompted the Finns to conclude a peace treaty on October 23 with Soviet Russia on October 1920. But still, the relationship remained tense, as evidenced by the adventurous attack undertaken by 1922 in the year of armed “volunteer” squad troops on the land of Soviet Karelia. You can not call a good relationship in the future. P. Svinhuvud (President of Finland from 1931 to 1937 a year), stated that any enemy of Russia must be a friend of Finland.

The construction of roads, airfields, various fortifications, and naval bases began at a fast pace on Finnish territory. On the Karelian Isthmus (a little more than 30 km from Leningrad), our neighbor, using foreign experts, built a network of defenses that are better known under the name of the Mannerheim Line, and in the summer of 1939, the largest military maneuvers in Finnish history took place here. These and other facts testified Finnish readiness for war.

If the Finns wanted to, or Once again about the Winter War


The Soviet Union wanted to peacefully strengthen the north-western borders, but the military route to achieve this goal was not ruled out. The Soviet government initiated negotiations with Finland on mutual security issues with 1939 in October. At first, the Soviet proposal to conclude a defensive alliance with our country was rejected by the Finnish leadership. Then the USSR government made a proposal to move the border, passing along the Karelian Isthmus, several kilometers to the north and lease the Hanko Peninsula to the Soviet Union. For this, the Finns were offered a territory in the Karelian SSR, which was several dozen times (!) Larger than the exchange area. It would seem that one can agree with such conditions. However, such a proposal was rejected, primarily due to the fact that Finland was assisted by England, France and a number of other states.

The possibility of solving the problem by military means is shown by the deployment of Red Army units in advance. Thus, the 7 Army, formed by the order of the Soviet Union Commissar for Defense of 14 in September 1939 in the Kalinin area, was later transferred to the Leningrad Military District (LVO) under operational control. By the end of September, this army began its advance towards the borders of Latvia, and by December it was already on the Karelian Isthmus. The 8 Army I, which was deployed on the basis of the Novgorod Army Group, was redeployed near Petrozavodsk by November, and by December its units were already on the border with Finland. September 16 The 1939 of the year forms the Murmansk Army Group, which was renamed the 14 Army two months later. It is easy to notice that simultaneously with the negotiations, deployment and concentration of troops took place, completed as a whole by November 28 of 1939.

So, the troops of the LVO replenished, deployed and concentrated near Finland, but the Finns did not want to sign the agreement. All that was needed was an occasion to start a war. It should be noted that our troops set combat missions as early as November 21, 1939. According to the LVO directive No. 4717 of November 21, the 7th Army, after receiving a special order, was required together with aviation and the Red Banner Baltic fleet (KBF) defeat the Finnish units, take possession of the fortifications standing on the Karelian Isthmus and go to the line of Art. Chitola, Art. Antrea, Vyborg; after that, together with the 8th army leading the offensive in the Serdobol direction, developing success, go to the line of Lakhta, Kyuviansk, Helsinki.

The cause of the war were provocations at the border. There were these provocations on the part of the Finns or ours, now it is difficult to say unequivocally. In a note from the Soviet Union on November 26 1939, for example, the Finnish government was accused of shelling by artillery causing human casualties. In response, the Finnish leadership refuted the accusations against it and proposed the creation of an independent commission to investigate the incident.

The Finns made similar demands to withdraw Soviet troops to 25 km, to our demands to withdraw their troops deep into their territory. 28 November was followed by a new note, which stated that, on the basis of the continuing provocations and impudent Finnish demands, the USSR considers itself discharged from the obligations of the 1920 peace treaty of the year. The note was printed in the Pravda newspaper of 28 and 29 of November 1939 of the year. In addition, on these days on the pages of the newspaper are placed various messages confirming the provocations of the Finnish military. Thus, the article “New provocations of the Finnish military” was published in Pravda on 29 November, which stated that, according to information received from the headquarters of the Baltic Military District, on November 11, 28 on the isthmus between the Fishing and Medium fishermen, five noticing our outfit moving along the border, fired at him and tried to capture him. The outfit began to depart. By the actions of a group that approached from our side, the Finns were driven back into the depths of their territory, and they captured three soldiers. In the 17 clock towards the USSR five times shot from a rifle. Ours did not respond. On the night of November 18, troops of the Military District ordered to cross the state border.



What did the leadership of the USSR count on? First of all, in the Soviet Union did not plan to start a big war, as evidenced by the initial composition of the troops - only four armies. Being within the framework of a beautiful, but not supported by the facts of the world solidarity of the working class, the Soviet government naively expected that as soon as our troops cross the state border, the Finnish proletariat will rise against its bourgeois government. The winter war proved the fallacy of such hopes, but the belief in proletarian solidarity, contrary to logic, remained in the minds of many until World War II.

After the outbreak of hostilities, the leadership of Finland transmitted through the Swedish embassy in Moscow a message to the Soviet government about its readiness to resume negotiations. But V.M. Molotov rejected this proposal, saying that the USSR had now recognized the provisional people's government of the Finnish Democratic Republic (FDR), which had been created on the territory of our country from among the emigrant representatives of the Finnish left forces. Naturally, this government was ready to sign the necessary agreement with our country. Its text was posted in the Pravda newspaper 1 December 1939 of the year, and a day later an agreement on mutual assistance and friendship between the USSR and the FDR was signed and announced to the Soviet people.

What did the government of Finland hope for? Of course, it was well aware that if it could not agree, a military clash would inevitably be. Therefore, straining all forces, preparing for war. However, military experts considered this training insufficient. Already after the end of the Winter War, Lieutenant Colonel I. Khanpula wrote that those who carried out preparation for war “in good years” did not consider it necessary to increase the power of the Finnish armed forces, who in the course of military operations even lacked weapons and ammunition, Finnish soldiers paid for these mistakes on the Karelian isthmus with their blood. The leadership of Finland believed that in their northern theater of war the offensive could be carried out only in the winter or summer period. For directions above Lake Ladoga, it did not bother at all, as it was confident that the Finnish army was better prepared than the Soviet troops, who would have to fight on foreign territory and overcome the enormous difficulties associated with providing, while behind the strong fortifications that covered the Karelian Isthmus, Finnish troops hold out until spring thaw. By this time, the Finnish government was hoping to receive the necessary support from European countries.

The plans of the Soviet General Staff to defeat the enemy troops were as follows: active actions in the northern and central areas to pin the Finnish troops and not allow the Finns to receive military assistance from the Western powers (and the threat of landing of troops of other states existed); the main blow was to be inflicted by the troops of the 8 Army, bypassing the Mannerheim Line, the auxiliary - by the 7 Army. All this was given no more than 15 days. The operation included three stages: the first was the rout of the Finns to the predpole and the achievement of the main defensive line; the second is the preparation for the breakthrough of this band and the third is the complete rout of the Finnish armies on the Karelian Isthmus and the seizure of the Kexholm, Vyborg line. It was planned to achieve the following offensive rates: in the first two stages from 2 to 3 km, and in the third from 8 to 10 km per day. However, as you know, in fact, everything was different.

The Finnish command concentrated the main forces on the Karelian Isthmus, deploying 7 from the 15 infantry divisions, 4 infantry and 1 cavalry brigades, and, in addition, reinforcement units. All these forces became part of the Karelian army of General X. Esterman. North of Lake Ladoga, on the Petrozavodsk direction, stood the army corps of General E. Heglund, which included two reinforced infantry divisions. In addition, by December, the group of troops of General P. Talvela was deployed to Vyartsilyu. The Ukhta sector was blocked by the group of troops of General V. Tuompo, and in the Arctic, on the Kandalaksha and Murmansk directions, the Lapland group of General K. Valenkus. Total Soviet troops opposed to 600 thousand Finnish soldiers, about 900 guns, 64 tank, all these forces supported the Finnish fleet (29 ships) and the Air Force (about 270 combat aircraft).



As part of the LVO (commander KA Meretskov) deployed 4 army: in the Arctic - 14-i in the 2-x infantry divisions; in Karelia - 9 of the 3 rifle divisions; east of Lake Ladoga — 8 of the 4 rifle divisions and on the Karelian Isthmus — the 7 of the army supported by the Red Banner Baltic Fleet forces.

Fighting to defeat the enemy is usually divided into 2 period. The first is counted from the beginning of the offensive of the Red Army 30 connections on November 1939 of the year and ends on February 11 of the year 1940. During this period, the troops operating in the strip from the Barents Sea to the Gulf of Finland managed to advance to a depth of 35 –80 km, close Finland’s access to the Barents Sea and overcome the barrier of the Karelian Isthmus with a depth of 25 to 60 km and reach the Mannerheim line. During the second period, the Mannerheim Line was broken through and the fortress city of Vyborg was captured, it ended on March 13, 12, with the conclusion of a peace treaty.

In 8 h 30 mines 30 November after half an hour of artillery preparation, the Red Army troops crossed the border and, encountering insignificant resistance, advanced to 4-5 km by night. In the future, with each passing day, the resistance of the enemy increased, but the offensive continued in all directions. In general, only the troops of the 14 Army, who occupied the city of Petsamo, as well as the Rybachy and Medium Peninsula, took 10 days to complete their task. Shutting down Finland to the Barents Sea, they continued to make their way deep into the territory. The troops of the 9 Army, leading the offensive in the most difficult off-road conditions, were able to advance deeper into 32-45 km in the first week, and the 8 Army in 15 days by 75-80 km.

The peculiarity of the polar theater of operations complicated the use of large military forces and military equipment. It was possible to attack only on some separate directions, which divided the troops and disrupted the interaction between them. The commanders did not know the terrain well, which gave the enemy the opportunity to lure the Soviet units and subunits to places from which it was not possible to return.

The Finnish command seriously feared the withdrawal of parts of the Red Army in the central regions of the country from the north. In order to prevent this, additional forces were urgently transferred to these directions. For the most part these were perfectly prepared and equipped ski units and troops. The ski training of our troops turned out to be weak, and besides, the sports skis we had were unsuitable for use in real combat operations. As a result, parts and formations of 14, 9 and 8 armies were forced to go on the defensive, in addition, some of the troops were surrounded and fought hard. The 7 Army at first also successfully developed an offensive in its sector, but its course was greatly slowed down by a strip of engineering obstacles, starting directly from the border and having a depth from 20 to 65 km. This lane was equipped with several (up to five) lines of barriers and a system of strong points. During the fighting, 12 reinforced concrete structures, 1245 bunkers, more than 220 km of wire obstacles, about 200 km of forest debris, 56 km of ditches and escarpes, up to 80 km of ridges, almost 400 km of minefields were destroyed. However, the troops of the right flank of 3 December already managed to break through to the main line of the Mannerheim line, while the rest of the army units reached it only on December 12.



December 13 troops received an order to break through the Mannerheim Line, which was a system of heavily fortified bands and positions. The main strip had a depth of up to 10 km, and included 22 defense nodes and numerous strong points, each consisting of 3-5 pillboxes and 4-6 pillboxes. The 4-6 strongholds formed a resistance node, usually extending along the front for 3-5 km and a depth of 3-4 km. The strongholds, pillboxes and bunkers were connected by communications and trenches, had a well-developed system of anti-tank obstacles and various engineering barriers. The second lane was located in 3-5 km from the main, and had almost 40 pillboxes and around 180 bunkers. It was equipped like a basic, but with less engineering development. Vyborg had a third lane, which included two positions with a multitude of pillboxes, pillboxes, engineering barriers and strong points.

The troops of the 7 Army hoped to break through the main line of the Mannerheim line, but they did not achieve any results in this attempt, but suffered serious losses. Having repelled the attacks of the Red Army, the enemy tried to seize the initiative by conducting a series of counterattacks, but without success.

At the end of the year, the High Command of the Red Army gave the order to stop the attacks and prepare thoroughly for a breakthrough. From the troops of the 7 Army, supplemented by new formations, they formed two armies (7 and 13), which became part of the created North-Western Front. The GN Directive of 28 December 1939 of the year determined the methods of training troops, some tactical issues and organization of command and control of the troops, which were as follows: to ensure that the arriving units were familiarized with the conditions of hostilities and not to be unprepared to fight; not to get involved in the tactics of rapid advancement, but to advance only after thorough preparation; for reconnaissance and surprise strikes create ski units; join the battle not with the crowd, but with companies and battalions, echeloning them in depth and providing a three-fold superiority over the enemy; not to throw infantry into the attack until enemy pillboxes at the front line of defense are crushed; the attack must be carried out after a thorough artillery preparation, the guns must be fired at targets, not at squares.

Implementing these instructions, the front command deployed preparations for a breakthrough: the troops were training on specially created training fields, equipped with dots and bunkers, similar to those that were to be really stormed. At the same time, a plan of operation was developed, on the basis of which the front forces were to break through the defenses on the 40-kilometer stretch of adjacent flanks of the armies. By this time, the North-Western Front had more than twice superiority in infantry, almost three times in artillery and multiple in aircraft and tanks over the enemy.

February 11 after the artillery preparation, which lasted for almost three hours, the front troops launched an offensive. The artillery barrage was attacked to a depth of 1,5 -2 km, and the assault groups carried out the blocking and destruction of the pillboxes. The first to break through the defense were the units of the 123 division, which had penetrated the first day on 1,5 km. The emerging success developed the second echelon of the corps, then the army and front reserves were introduced into the breakthrough. As a result, by February 17 the main line of the Mannerheim Line was broken through and the Finns retreated to the second lane. Soviet troops, having regrouped in front of the second line of defense, resumed the offensive. February 28, after artillery preparation lasting an hour and a half, they unanimously attacked enemy positions. The enemy could not stand the onslaught and began to withdraw. Pursuing him, the troops of the Red Army reached the city of Vyborg and stormed it on the night of March 13 on 1940.



With the breakthrough of the Mannerheim line by the Soviet armies, the Finnish leadership realized that without Western support, defeat was inevitable. Now the Finns have two options: accept the conditions of the USSR and conclude peace or seek military support from Britain and France, that is, enter into a military agreement with these states. London and Paris increased diplomatic pressure on our country. Germany also convinced the governments of Sweden and Norway that if they could not convince Finland to accept the conditions of the USSR, then they themselves could become a war zone. The Finns were forced to resume negotiations. Their outcome was a peace treaty concluded on March 12 of 1940.

His conditions completely erased the possible reproaches that our country wanted to deprive Finland of sovereignty and restore the borders of Tsarist Russia. The real goal of the Soviet Union was indeed the strengthening of the Soviet north-western borders, the security of Leningrad, as well as our non-freezing port in Murmansk and the railway.

The public condemned this war, which is evident from some publications in the press of those years. However, a number of politicians blame for the outbreak of war and put on the Finnish government. The famous Finnish statesman Urho Kekkonen, almost 26 years (1956 -1981) was the former president of this country, stressed that it was easy to avoid war, it was enough for the Finnish government to show understanding of the interests of the Soviet Union and Finland itself.

Sources:
Sokolov B. Secrets of the Finnish War. M .: Veche.2002. C. 8-49, 309-352.
Meltyukov M. The Popular Front for Finland? (on the question of the goals of the Soviet leadership in the war with Finland in 1939-1940) // Patriotic History. 1993. No. 3 C. 95-101
Vashchenko P. If Finland and the USSR. // visage 1990. No.6. C.27-34.
Kilin Y. View from Karelia on the "Winter War". // International life. 1994. No.3. 1994. With 46-50.
A group of authors. The history of the Second World War 1939-1945's. T. 3. M .: Voenizdat, 1974. C. 356-362.

Author:
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  1. kalibr
    kalibr 9 June 2016 06: 32
    +8
    Good stuff, but I would like captions under the photo: what, where, who, where from. This increases the information content of the material and speaks of respect for the readers. Not everyone here knows everything on the topic. And in the photo from Lenta.ru it seems that the pillbox is not Finnish, but from the Atlantic Wall. Of course, they are all "pillboxes", but I would like to clarify.
    1. Telakh
      Telakh 9 June 2016 10: 35
      +11
      Here is a very good review for those who are interested in the topic.
      1. Vladimir K.
        Vladimir K. 18 November 2017 22: 02
        +1
        There are three reviews, if not mistaken. And by the way, the final about the victory in that war of our troops, so far has not been (.
  2. PKK
    PKK 9 June 2016 06: 33
    +4
    Winter War for a soldier, this is worse than hell.
    1. mat-vey
      mat-vey 29 October 2017 18: 33
      0
      And if you apply the standard Western tales - the USSR "general frost" helped ...
  3. Vladycat
    Vladycat 9 June 2016 06: 47
    +3
    If Fina wanted? What? The topic itself is very interesting, but the article is superficial and uninformative.
    1. ICT
      ICT 9 June 2016 06: 56
      +1
      Quote: Vladycat
      If Fina wanted?


      perhaps this title would be more suitable for events after 1941 (because in 39 everything was fine with Wishlist)
      1. The comment was deleted.
    2. qwert
      qwert 9 June 2016 07: 08
      +22
      Quote: Vladycat
      If Fina wanted? What? The topic itself is very interesting, but the article is superficial and uninformative.

      It looks like you are commenting without even reading the article. It also clearly says "The public condemned this war, as can be seen from some publications in the press of those years. However, a number of politicians blame the Finnish government for unleashing the war. The famous Finnish statesman Urho Kekkonen, who was the president of this country for almost 26 years (1956-1981), stressed that the war was not difficult to avoid, it was enough for the Finnish government to show understanding of the interests of the Soviet Union and Finland itself. " Those. if the Finns wanted to pay attention to the neighbor’s request, then war and all these losses could be avoided.
      But in general, in the article everything is clear sequentially and in order. I personally liked it. All on the shelves and in their places, and at the same time not stretched.
      1. Vladycat
        Vladycat 9 June 2016 07: 17
        0
        Read. And not only this article. I am interested in the topic of the Winter War. The topic is quite serious to slide down to reasoning what and if. As far as I remember, Mannerheim was against it.
      2. NOMADE
        NOMADE 9 June 2016 13: 38
        +2
        The author is undoubted +
        Regarding the article, it is very interesting, but the peculiarities of tactics with bunkers and "cuckoos" are not indicated, it would not be bad to include the memoirs of Zh.Ya. Kotina
  4. avg-mgn
    avg-mgn 9 June 2016 07: 17
    +5
    You must admit that not everyone will come up with good material to deliberately tackle this topic, but I read it here with pleasure. Of course, there are controversial issues, but on the whole, that’s all right. The population of this war, like the others did not order!
    1. avt
      avt 9 June 2016 08: 59
      +3
      Quote: avg-mgn
      Good stuff, agree

      I do not agree, although I will not put a minus.
      Its conditions completely crossed out possible accusations that our country wanted to deprive Finland of sovereignty and restore the borders of tsarist Russia
      Did the author say anything about the Finnish government, headed by Kuusinen, who was traveling in the Red Army wagon train, similar to how Markhlevsky and Dzerzhinsky had heard during a failed campaign against Warsaw? Then the true Poles first started and even captured Kiev.
      The real goal of the Soviet Union was indeed to strengthen the Soviet north-western borders, the security of Leningrad, as well as our ice-free port in Murmansk and the railway.
      Which, according to the plans of the Soviet leadership, was completely solved by creating Soviet Finland. The author does not believe? Then I propose going to the fountain in Moscow at VDNKh and counting the number of statues if it was completely politically incorrectly restored depicting the Soviet republics, and then looking for what kind of republic the Karelian Finnish SSR was and when it started and stopped its existence, well, that’s the question who wanted what. So Stalin had to confine himself to a part in the form of present Karelia and the Navy base in Hanko, which restored the old artillery pre-revolutionary position in the Baltic.
      1. strannik1985
        strannik1985 9 June 2016 10: 55
        +3
        So Stalin had to confine himself to a part in the form of present Karelia and the Navy base in Hanko, which restored the old artillery pre-revolutionary position in the Baltic.

        Following this logic, the Prime Minister of Finland R. Ryti at a meeting of the State Council on December 15, putting forward the idea of ​​creating a "Russian alternative government" headed by Kerensky or Trotsky, did he want, neither more nor less, to capture all of Russia?
        1. avt
          avt 9 June 2016 11: 48
          0
          Quote: strannik1985
          Following this logic, Prime Minister of Finland R. Ryti at a meeting of the State Council on December 15 put forward the idea of ​​creating a "Russian alternative government"

          If you want to understand the logic of the Finns in terms of claims to the territory of Russia from the time of the formation of Finland not as the principalities of Finland, when the Russian tsars, in opposition to the Swedes, created a national territory for the Finns and the basis of a state apparatus that was quite different from the "metropolis". Then study their participation and concern for small Finno-Ugric peoples mixed with the struggle for the ecology of the north and look for maps with interesting borders in the north.
          1. strannik1985
            strannik1985 9 June 2016 11: 58
            +2
            That is not the question. Why, in one case, the formation of a collaborative government is a claim to the whole territory, and in the other to a part of the territories? Where is the logic?
            What prevented Stalin from occupying all of Finland?
            1. avt
              avt 9 June 2016 12: 54
              -1
              Quote: strannik1985
              What prevented Stalin from occupying all of Finland?

              Truly
              Quote: strannik1985
              Where is the logic?

              laughingAnd if you look a little wider than creating pocket governments, which are in fact a tool? Firstly, they really overstrained in the military operation, when they attracted troops from other districts, for which Stalin removed Voroshilov from the people's commissars and Shaposhnikov from the General Staff, it seems; Secondly, the Franks and the shaven ones really began to fit in with the Finns, and quite specifically working out the air operation of bombing the oil fields of Azerbaijan and it was not a fantasy; well, thirdly - Sudoplatov had already begun work on the annexation of the Baltic states and it was entering the final phase - democratic registration through the will of the people, which became a priority in light of the expected confrontation with Nazi Germany. That is, due to the limited resources and the failure of the blitzkrieg with Finland limited themselves to what they received. But in reserve, for the future, Stalin created the KFSSR. True, in Yalta he did not manage to squeeze this piece and he made a toast - "so let's drink so that our desires coincide with our capabilities", but the KFSSR remained part of 16 (SIXTEEN) Soviet republics.
              1. Alexey T. (Oper)
                Alexey T. (Oper) 9 June 2016 13: 29
                +3
                Quote: avt
                And if you look a little wider than the creation of pocket governments, which in fact are tools?

                The reality is that if they are planning an occupation, it is not the governments that are being prepared, but the occupation administrations, staffed by officials of the occupying army. Those in the Red Army were not created and their creation was not planned.

                Quote: avt
                Firstly, they really got over in a military operation,
                This is not even funny. We, on the contrary, have just turned around, not even at full power. And the Chukhites really understood this. Therefore, they hastened to pull their legs up until they were finally torn.


                Quote: avt
                Thirdly, Sudoplatov has already begun work on the annexation of the Baltic states and it has entered the final phase - democratic registration through the will of the people

                Do you have documents confirming the involvement of the NKVD and Sudoplatov in the referendum process in the Baltic states with a deliberately planned result? But don’t share the link, would it be interesting to see?
                1. avt
                  avt 9 June 2016 13: 45
                  +1
                  Quote: Alexey T. (Opera)
                  It is not even funny.

                  It was not funny the Red Army. Or did Stalin Voroshilova and Shaposhnikov step down from their posts by sucking at their successes in the war? wassat
                  Quote: Alexey T. (Opera)
                  Do you have documents confirming the involvement of the NKVD and Sudoplatov

                  We have everything, I can only offer to search for his memoirs, which were completely published in the form of two books.
                  Quote: Alexey T. (Opera)
                  I think I heard. But in your opinion, what was the purpose of its creation?
                  For example, I think (moreover, I’m almost sure) that it was created so that our leadership had with whom to sign a peace treaty at the end of the war.

                  laughing laughing Well then, Stalin did not create the German government by 1945 and not with Köötel, but with this pocket government of his own
                  Quote: Alexey T. (Opera)
                  sign a peace treaty at the end of the war

                  wassat
                  Quote: Alexey T. (Opera)
                  As far as I was able to understand, you think that this is a signal that Stalin dreamed of advising Chukhnia.

                  Where is the Chukhnya?
                  Quote: Alexey T. (Opera)
                  . But who in this case prevented him from doing this, if not in 1940, so in 1944?

                  You at least try to read and comprehend my commentary WHOLE. Again, when was the Tehran Conference? In which year? Well, this is even if you do not take into account the constant movement in the form of correspondence and the work of the Foreign Ministry. With the Polish governments and parallel armies, and both of us were forming, but Anders dumped into Africa seem, do not want to draw an analogy for understanding?
                  1. Alexey T. (Oper)
                    Alexey T. (Oper) 9 June 2016 14: 21
                    +5
                    Quote: avt
                    It was not funny the Red Army.

                    At the very beginning, when the consequences of the pre-war underestimation of the enemy affected, it was not funny. And by February they were rebuilt and drove the Chukhna - only shreds from it flew to the sides.
                    Quote: avt
                    Or did Stalin Voroshilova and Shaposhnikov step down from their posts by sucking at their successes in the war?
                    Shaposhnikov was appointed Deputy People's Commissar of Defense of the USSR. He was "severely" punished.
                    Quote: avt
                    We have everything, I can only offer to search for his memoirs, which were completely published in the form of two books.

                    I am not interested in fiction in the form of memoirs. I am interested in documents from which you should have said. Do you have them?
                    Quote: avt
                    Well then, Stalin did not create a German government for 1945
                    Precisely because the occupation of Germany was planned.
                    Quote: avt
                    Where is the Chukhnya?

                    Chukhnya is a slang name for Finland, from St. Petersburg "chukhontsy", i.e. Finns and Ingrians.
                    Quote: avt
                    You at least try to read and comprehend my commentary WHOLE. Again, when was the Tehran Conference? In which year?

                    This is not an answer. Once again: if Stalin so dreamed of seizing Chukhon swamps that he couldn’t even eat without it, what could have prevented him from doing this either in the 1940 year or in the 1944, when the Chukhons were already heavily smeared in war crimes against civilian population and military personnel Red Army? What prevented him from raising this issue during the Tehran conference, when the allies were extremely interested in it?
                    1. avt
                      avt 9 June 2016 15: 06
                      0
                      Quote: Alexey T. (Opera)
                      I am not interested in fiction in the form of memoirs.

                      laughing laughing Put out the light! Memoirs it turns out to be fiction! wassat Well then, why do you need some kind of documents?
                      Quote: Alexey T. (Opera)
                      And by February they were rebuilt and drove the Chukhna - only shreds from it flew to the sides.

                      And so, without any knowledge about the specific movements of troops from the same Belorussian district, you also talk about some
                      Quote: Alexey T. (Opera)
                      artistic prose in the form of memoirs.

                      Quote: Alexey T. (Opera)
                      Shaposhnikov was appointed Deputy People's Commissar of Defense of the USSR. He was "severely" punished.

                      But there is no need to juggle, for this they treat with a candelabrum. Where did I write about "cruel punishment"?
                      Quote: Alexey T. (Opera)
                      This is not an answer.

                      If you continue to perform capercaillie, then NOBODY will give an answer, especially when you adjust everything to your opinion.
                      1. avt
                        avt 9 June 2016 15: 06
                        0
                        Quote: Alexey T. (Opera)
                        Quote: avt
                        Well then, Stalin did not create the German government by 1945, precisely because the occupation of Germany was planned.

                        wassat and before that
                        Quote: Alexey T. (Opera)
                        The reality is that if they are planning an occupation, it is not the governments that are being prepared, but the occupation administrations, staffed by officials of the occupying army.

                        laughing So Stalin did not create a government for Germany that would
                        Quote: Alexey T. (Opera)
                        The reality is that if they are planning an occupation, it is not the governments that are being prepared, but the occupation administrations, staffed by officials of the occupying army. Those in the Red Army were not created and their creation was not planned.

                        Because in the end, it occupied the agreed and approved sector in Germany in Yalta and right there
                        Quote: Alexey T. (Opera)
                        For example, I think (moreover, I’m almost sure) that it was created so that our leadership had with whom to sign a peace treaty at the end of the war.

                        Well, that’s called - either put on your underpants, or remove the cross. You somehow figure it out yourself in the logical construction of thoughts and again carefully
                        Quote: avt
                        Do you even try to read and comprehend my comment
                      2. Alexey T. (Oper)
                        Alexey T. (Oper) 9 June 2016 15: 33
                        +3
                        You, dear, are either confused in three sentences, or have decided that I do not understand what I myself am writing

                        Stalin created the Kuusinenn government because, in the event of the Ryti government's escape abroad, he needed to have “pocket” Finnish ministers at hand, who, on behalf of a free Finland, could sign a peace treaty with the USSR.

                        Hitler in Poland did not bother with such a question, therefore he ultimately received the Polish government in exile and was forced to create, under the secret protocol of the USSR-Germany Non-Aggression Treaty, instead of preserving a truncated but sovereign Poland (that was provided for by an additional secret protocol). e. include in the German cultural space a Slavic element alien to him and eventually have an incessant headache in the form of a national liberation movement.

                        As an appendix to the situation of 1945 of the year in Germany: it was decided to divide its territory and occupy it during the Yalta territory. Therefore, Stalin did not need to create a German government. So, instead of him, military commandant offices were created, headed by the generals of the Red Army, i.e. occupation administrations subordinate to which were local authorities.
                      3. avt
                        avt 9 June 2016 16: 08
                        -1
                        Quote: Alexey T. (Opera)
                        x, or decided that I do not understand what I myself am writing

                        The objective reality given in reading.
                      4. Alexey T. (Oper)
                        Alexey T. (Oper) 9 June 2016 15: 26
                        +3
                        Quote: avt
                        Memoirs it turns out to be fiction!

                        didn’t you know? Well, read the source study textbook of the same Danilevsky. wink
                        Quote: avt
                        And so, without any knowledge about the specific movements of troops from the same Belorussian district, you also talk about some
                        And from what words of mine did such a categorical conclusion follow that I did not know about the movement of troops of the Belorussian district?
                        I’ll tell you more, not only from Belarus sent troops but also from Ukraine the same. For example, the Poltava Tank School, in which at that moment my grandfather was a teacher, formed a combined regiment of cadets and sent him to the front.
                        This was just what happened in the framework of the restructuring and buildup of forces that were initially insufficient (the ratio of infantry at KarPere in December 1941 of the year was 1,4: 1 in favor of the Red Army, while at least 3: 1 was required to break through the defense).
                        Quote: avt
                        But there is no need to juggle, for this they treat with a candelabrum. Where did I write about "cruel punishment"?

                        You wrote that he was punished. But what is the punishment if a person left with a raise? And Marshal Shaposhnikov had no direct relation to the planning of the Winter War, the operation plan and all the calculations were made by the headquarters of the Leningrad Military District, headed by Meretskov.

                        So candelabra can indulge yourself. laughing
                        Quote: avt
                        If you continue to perform capercaillie, then NOBODY will give an answer, especially when you adjust everything to your opinion.

                        But I don’t execute a grouse. You did not answer the question, therefore, they just wrote to you.

                        The reality is that no one, neither the British, nor the French, nor the Germans, nor the Swedes, could have prevented Stalin if he really intended to occupy Chuhnia. And they could not do this either in 1940 or in 1944.

                        Start bombing our oil fields in Azerbaijan. Yes. That they could. But what would it give them? Conduct a ground operation against the USSR through the Caucasus ridge? I beg of you. It's not even funny, but just from the realm of fantasy. Landing in Sweden or Norway? Well, this landing force must first be supplied, and the Germans would not allow the Angles to land in Norway, since this threatened their interests in this country.

                        Well, so what could hinder?
              2. strannik1985
                strannik1985 9 June 2016 15: 26
                +3
                Firstly, they really broke into a military operation when they attracted troops from other districts, for which Stalin removed Voroshilov from the people's commissars and seemed to be from the General Staff Shaposhnikov

                On the contrary, the total loss of about 70 thousand people by the end of the war killed, wounded, missing from the 300-350 thousandth army is overdose. Moreover, the losses grew in dynamics, only in the first 13 days of March the Finns lost 7378 people, that is, on average 567 people per day (average daily losses in January 106 people, in February 319 people), if this level remained, the Finns would have lost about 17,5 more , 45 thousand people. Keep in mind that in March the Red Army finally breaks out into the operational space and the Finnish troops that lost their main defensive positions would have suffered significantly greater losses, according to general estimates, irrevocable orders of 50-100 thousand people and total 120-1 thousand people, and this is 3/23 from the Finnish army, the front would simply fall apart. Finland simply didn’t have human resources, and what was left was nothing to arm, for example, in the regiments of XNUMX PD there were weapons, including hunting rifles.
                Front position:
                Let's look at all the key theaters of war from south to north on March 13, 1940.

                1. Vyborg Bay. Here, the Finns have a clear crisis, until the collapse of the Finnish defense it remains from several hours to several days
                2. East of Vyborg (Tali, Tammisuo, Portinhoykka). Finnish cadre units are standing here, somehow still holding on.
                3. Vuoksa. Finns are holding on with all their might.
                4. Taipale. The Red Army does not conduct large-scale offensive operations
                5. Pitkäranta - Koyrinoya - Lemetti. The 15th Army has released the 168th Infantry Division, is preparing to attack Sortavala. Finns are holding on.
                6. Kollaa - Loymola. Five Soviet divisions (fifteen regiments) piled on the Finnish battle group as part of a pair of regiments and had already begun a detour on the flanks. The situation is threatening, but the Finns still hold on
                7. Aittojoki. The 139th Infantry Division is preparing for revenge, but the offensive has not yet begun.
                8. Nurmes - Lieksa. Everything is quiet.
                9. Kuhmo. The Finns are completing the liquidation of the 54th Mountain Division surrounded, the 54th is desperately fighting back. Both sides suffer heavy losses.
                10. Raat road. 44th is preparing for revenge, but the offensive has not yet begun
                11. Further north. The offensive has not yet begun.

                Bair Irincheev (s)

                Secondly, franks and shaved really fit in with Finns

                To "really fit in" you need to transfer troops, was someone preparing a transfer?
              3. goose
                goose 9 June 2016 15: 28
                +9
                Quote: avt
                And if you look a little wider than the creation of pocket governments, which in fact are tools? Firstly, they really broke into a military operation when they attracted troops from other districts, for which Stalin removed Voroshilov from the People's Commissars and seem to be from the General Staff Shaposhnikov; Secondly, Franks and shaved

                I agree in almost everything, BUT:
                1. Stalin did not know what the Britons were up to. There was only a general notion that if the war dragged on, then the Finns would be embroiled in arrogance and Swedes. However, Stalin already knew that the Norwegians and Germans would not.
                2. Initially, Vyborg did not enter the exchange territories, and the Finns, in principle, considered the offer as profitable, with some loss of GDP and population (on this occasion, the USSR offered a free exchange, whoever wants to can leave), but by acquiring the territory.
                3. Finnish politicians in their memoirs said that only outright Russophobia prevented them from considering любые proposals of the USSR at that moment. In particular, there was a time when the USSR agreed only to lease the islands, Hanko + an agreement on mutual ownership of the eastern part of the Baltic Sea with the obligation to completely prevent ships of third countries, following the example of the Black Sea. For several months there were many options, and given the first failures of the USSR at the front, the opinions of diplomats and politicians hesitated. If the Finns showed at least a little interest in the agreements, then there were opportunities to come to an agreement, including without territorial changes in Finland. Less need was to listen to the Angles, Swedes and Norwegians (the latter also abstained in the vote on a resolution against the USSR in the League of Nations), and to live their own lives. As a result, real assistance was provided only by Sweden and the United States (for which there was no calculation at all), and in a very modest amount.
                4. The conclusion of peace in the war by Finland became possible when more than 30% of the most aggressive Shyutskorites died at the front. The politicians themselves wrote that an earlier conclusion of peace (they already knew about the imminent imminent defeat of the politician) could lead to unrest in the country.

                Doesn't all this remind you of modern Ukraine in some details? For me, these patterns are somehow suspicious, especially the unwillingness to negotiate and the subsequent "drain" of the instigators.
                1. Alexey T. (Oper)
                  Alexey T. (Oper) 9 June 2016 15: 38
                  0
                  Great answer. Respect. hi
                2. avt
                  avt 9 June 2016 16: 26
                  0
                  Quote: goose
                  Does modern Ukraine not remind you of all this in some detail?

                  No. No . Just look at how and when Finland became part of the Empire and how this territory, except for the part in the Peisamo area, which Vanya No. 4 still called his zemstvo, developed until its entry. There, no one ever asked to join the Empire, but on the contrary, did not sour partisans against the Russian troops who entered there. Moreover, with the leader of the partisans quite agreed peacefully on the conditions of government in the newly created principality. Well, if we talk about comparison, it is more likely with Abkhazia, well, and certain regions of the Caucasus.
                  Quote: goose
                  In particular, there was a time when the USSR agreed only to rent the islands, Hanko +

                  A prerequisite, especially if you pay attention to the fact that artillery batteries were being rebuilt in the Baltic islands at that time, the future hero of the defense and evacuation of Hanko and the subsequent defense of Rybachy-Kabanov, who was planned to be from Rybachy to Sevastopol, led the process ... request
                  Quote: goose
                  Stalin did not know what the Britons were up to.

                  What Stalin knew, only Stalin knew, and also those who reported fragments of this knowledge, and in life this was not at all what some people imagine, wringing their hands about the telegram of Sorge, which was the last and somewhere 11th, or 10th th, now I don’t remember as a keepsake and all as one with the exact date of the attack on the USSR. Moreover, the mourners of Stalin’s suspicion completely persecute seditious thought - how did the German ambassador in Japan know the date of the attack on the USSR? So Hitler sent telegrams to all embassies !? bully Stalin’s knowledge was based on the analysis of the data of several intelligence agencies, from political to military, including his personal agents. Moreover, they were not tied tightly to each other.
      2. Alexey T. (Oper)
        Alexey T. (Oper) 9 June 2016 13: 24
        +2
        Quote: avt
        Did the author say anything about the Finnish government, headed by Kuusinen, who was traveling in the Red Army wagon train, similar to how Markhlevsky and Dzerzhinsky had heard during the failed campaign against Warsaw? T

        I think I heard. But in your opinion, what was the purpose of its creation?
        For example, I think (moreover, I am almost sure) that it was created so that our leadership had with whom to sign a peace treaty at the end of the war. After that, to achieve the fulfillment of their pre-war requirements (namely, to get the opportunity to create a naval base at the mouth of the Gulf of Finland and move the border away from Leningrad) and then grant the Chukhites sovereignty, taking over a neighborly friendly neutral country to us.

        As far as I was able to understand, you think that this is a signal that Stalin dreamed of advising Chukhnia. But who in this case prevented him from doing this, if not in 1940, so in 1944?
      3. Stas157
        Stas157 17 June 2016 13: 49
        +2
        Quote: avt
        The author does not believe? Then I suggest going to the fountain in Moscow at VDNKh and counting the number of statues if it was completely politically incorrectly restored depicting the Soviet republics, and then looking for what kind of republic the Karelian Finnish SSR was and when it started and stopped its existence, well, that’s the question who wanted what.

        I heard a ring, but I don’t know where he is? Following the results of the Soviet-Finnish war, the Karelian-Finnish SSR was formed. In 1956, part of the territories was returned to the finals and the Karelian-Finnish SSR was abolished. That's all! And do not invent, but what did you want, Comrade Stalin ?!
  5. qwert
    qwert 9 June 2016 07: 23
    +10
    Quote: TIT
    If Fina wanted?
    perhaps this title would be more suited to events after 1941

    I have already written above. This is known, and even liberal "historians" "Stalin's debunkers" do not argue with this that we persuaded the Finns for a long time and persistently to give us a piece of Finland in exchange for a much larger piece of Soviet territory. Moreover, we did not ask for land under any city or where gold mines. And they offered no less interesting sites, however ... the Finns were eager for war (unlike the USSR). Well, what we fought for and ran into. In principle, Stalin could have moved the troops further, as far as Helsinki, but we did not need a war. And the Finns, if they wanted ... could avoid all this.
    Quote: Vladycat
    The topic is quite serious to slide down to reasoning what and if.
    And I don’t slip. This in the course of Finnish politicians periodically roll.
  6. Tsoy
    Tsoy 9 June 2016 07: 37
    +3
    for me, the winter war is characterized by the invention of the Molotov cocktail. And no matter how strange it was invented by the Finns who threw Molotov bottles with Molotov. In general, the war was positive for the Red Army in gaining invaluable experience and identifying mistakes on the eve of the Second World War.
    1. kalibr
      kalibr 9 June 2016 08: 08
      +6
      Long before the Finns, Moroccans and Republicans rushed to them in Spain!
      1. Tsoy
        Tsoy 9 June 2016 08: 34
        +3
        but it was after the Finnish that the name "molotov cocktail" appeared
    2. voyaka uh
      voyaka uh 9 June 2016 09: 26
      +2
      "In general, the war was positive for the Red Army in gaining invaluable experience and identifying mistakes on the eve of the Second World War" ////

      Alas, it was not very successful to correct the tactics and command and control of troops before the beginning of the Second World War. Actually, the large-scale fake offensive exercises "for high bosses", of which there were many in the 30s, have stopped. Articles "about the victorious Red Army, which will soon liberate Europe" have completely disappeared from the newspapers.
      They began to pay attention to defense. But during the sweat of the year they did not manage to establish failures in the command and control of the troops that emerged during the Winter War.

      But Hitler drew from the Winter War the erroneous conclusion that the Red Army is a clay monster ("since the Finns managed to inflict such losses without tanks, then we with the Panzerwaffe will smash ..."). And the military adventurism of the Barbarossa plan (line A-A "Arkhangelsk-Astrakhan") is a consequence of this underestimation.
      1. avt
        avt 9 June 2016 20: 48
        +1
        Quote: voyaka uh
        Alas, it did not work out very well to correct the tactics and command and control of the troops before the start of the Second World War.

        Yes, in the context of the deployment of a multi-million army and a large number of units and formations, it is simply impossible. There were really not enough trained personnel, even taking into account the fact that tens of thousands of officers were rehabilitated, and a large percentage was simply dismissed and expelled from the party or was under house arrest in a state of ignorance of the fate of the future.
        Quote: voyaka uh
        But Hitler deduced from the Winter War an erroneous conclusion,

        No. Such operations as the "Barbarossa" plan are not planned spontaneously at the sight of one-time blunders of a potential enemy. Hitler, of course, was an adventurer, but not to that extent, and the German generals were not pedal suckers. Their main miscalculation was that they did not really believe in that. that after the first strong blow, Stalin and the party administrative apparatus will be able to hold the USSR with an iron hand and it will not crack across national and other territorial formations. Fortunately, an example of how it WAS in the Russian Empire after 1917 from February and in the Civil. Hence this approach as a colossus on Again, the experience of companies in Europe, where, after a powerful blow, the organized resistance without the leadership of the volitional center completely collapsed due to the fact that the volitional center could and even appeared, like that De Gaulle, but he could no longer organize that and he could only collect trophies.
    3. The comment was deleted.
  7. By001261
    By001261 9 June 2016 08: 10
    +5
    A good article + definitely, thanks for the clarity and information!
  8. parusnik
    parusnik 9 June 2016 08: 15
    +5
    Urho Kekkonen is right, war could have been avoided, but then the Finnish government had no understanding .. They dreamed about Great Finland .. before the Urals .. And these dreams were successfully fueled by the West ...
    1. Starina_hank
      Starina_hank 9 June 2016 19: 30
      0
      You need to make friends with your head, look at the map, compare Finland and the USSR, and think about who you wanted to absorb. Comrade Stalin systematically restored the USSR within the borders of the Russian Empire, and no one can condemn him in this. But the first pancake turned out lumpy, it happens. I will not reveal great secrets if I say that yesterday the internationalists from Spain fought on the side of the Finns, while England and France sold military equipment.
      1. Alexey T. (Oper)
        Alexey T. (Oper) 9 June 2016 22: 21
        +2
        Quote: Starina_Hank
        You need to make friends with your head, look at the map, compare Finland and the USSR, and think about who you wanted to absorb.

        Those. You do not know that in the period from 1918 to 1939, the Chukhons attacked the USSR twice without paying any attention to size?
        Quote: Starina_Hank
        Comrade Stalin systematically restored the USSR within the borders of the Russian Empire

        And why, then, did he not occupy the entire Chuhnia in 1944? Who then could prevent him from doing this?
      2. strannik1985
        strannik1985 10 June 2016 11: 00
        0
        You need to make friends with your head, look at the map, compare Finland and the USSR, and think about who you wanted to absorb.

        The size of the country did not prevent the Finns from having one of the official plans for the use of troops (VK-1) to participate in a coalition war against the USSR, just as Mannerheim did not count on the landing of the allied Anglo-French troops.
        The size of the country is one thing, and the combat readiness of its army is another, from the last to 1939-1940 it was all very, very complicated.
    2. Starina_hank
      Starina_hank 9 June 2016 19: 30
      0
      You need to make friends with your head, look at the map, compare Finland and the USSR, and think about who you wanted to absorb. Comrade Stalin systematically restored the USSR within the borders of the Russian Empire, and no one can condemn him in this. But the first pancake turned out lumpy, it happens. I will not reveal great secrets if I say that yesterday the internationalists from Spain fought on the side of the Finns, while England and France sold military equipment.
      1. Reptiloid
        Reptiloid 10 June 2016 06: 34
        +1
        Parallels with today, in my opinion, are visible.
        Here Ukraine is provoked to war with Russia. And can it really capture Russia? And helpers would be found at it. Before the hell, they want to tear pieces from Russia!
        I think also in the case of Finland.
        I liked the article. Thank you.
  9. Monarchist
    Monarchist 9 June 2016 08: 19
    +4
    On the whole, the article is correct, but a little superficial: you need signatures under the photo, then he casually said about the so-called government of the FDR and that's all. The war showed that Stalin is smarter than the detractors show him: at first Stalin hoped to "walk with an accordion in Finland," realistically assessed the situation and went to negotiations
  10. nivander
    nivander 9 June 2016 08: 34
    0
    in order to have an army of 600 thousand with a population of 3 million, it is necessary to mobilize all (absolutely all !!!) males regardless of health and other reasons. By the way, the Finns themselves, the USSR’s offer to exchange the territory, spoke of exchanging 10 grams of gold per kilogram of shit (right now bites your elbows)
  11. voyaka uh
    voyaka uh 9 June 2016 08: 47
    0
    The material is completely misleading to the reader.
    I did not expect such a linden from a "technical engineer".

    No wonder he did not cite the figures for the loss of people and equipment.
    They are staggering as 41 years old.
    The Finns lost 25 thousand people, the Red Army - 120-140 thousand people only killed.
    more than 300 tanks (dozens of tanks were captured whole) and 300-400 aircraft.

    The war began in complete failure.
    For the division, which went deep into Finland were destroyed
    completely to the last person - they perished without a trace.
    The Finns, who started the war with 15 Vickers tanks, had a week later
    several dozen captured tanks.
    For every killed Finn there were 4-5 Red Army men.
    1. faiver
      faiver 9 June 2016 10: 27
      +2
      loss figures different sides lead different therefore talk about 25tys. the dead Finns are not worth it ...
      Well, the losses of the Red Army are directly related to the complex theater of operations, the fact that the military leadership did not take this into account when preparing the operation is obvious ...
    2. apro
      apro 9 June 2016 11: 27
      +4
      Quote: voyaka uh
      For every killed Finn there were 4-5 Red Army men.

      Yes, with such losses if the Finns didn’t lie, have they been in Moscow for a long time, or don’t agree on something? Less than 10% of them still have to fight and fight, or what happened so suddenly?
      1. Monarchist
        Monarchist 21 June 2016 15: 31
        0
        Then you noticed to a point: if the situation was like the Israeli field marshal said (in reality, the IDF has no higher lieutenant general) why did the Finns willingly agree to negotiations?
    3. goose
      goose 9 June 2016 15: 37
      +2
      Quote: voyaka uh
      For every killed Finn there were 4-5 Red Army men

      We will not argue about your source of losses, the Finns write about the greatest losses among their own and volunteers (of which there were just about 25 thousand people.)
      It would not be surprising, given the lack of a real superiority in the number of troops, the lead in deployment, having a narrow front section with roads and not having a fleet of heavy guns for breaking the defense line. I think a mediocre result for Europe. the Germans might have broken through, but the same could not have happened without heavy losses.

      When the staffing level was reached and the necessary equipment delivered, the entire defense was broken in a week.
    4. kalibr
      kalibr 9 June 2016 17: 01
      0
      Homeland magazine gave 90 thousand. But still a lot!
    5. Alexey T. (Oper)
      Alexey T. (Oper) 10 June 2016 15: 01
      +3
      Quote: voyaka uh

      The war began in complete failure.
      For the division, which went deep into Finland were destroyed
      completely to the last person - they perished without a trace.
      Well, do not fantasize like that. Five of our rifle divisions were surrounded during the war - 163 I (near Suomussalmi), 44 I on Raat Road, 54 I in Kuhmo, 168 I in Sortavala, and 18 I in South Lemetti. The most severe of them suffered two: 44-I and 18-I. But not one of them was completely destroyed.
      Moreover, the two divisions survived in the boilers until the end of the war, riveting to themselves the significant Chukhon reserves that were so needed at KarPere.
  12. Aleksander
    Aleksander 9 June 2016 09: 11
    +5
    Finland completely departed to Russia as an autonomous principality with its own constitution and parliament. But these rights were then curtailed by the tsarist government, and Finland turned into one of the outskirts of the Russian Empire.

    Yeah, with accuracy to the contrary-There were no rights of an autonomous principality. We read the text of the Friedrichsham Treaty 1809:

    Art. IV. His Majesty the King of Sweden, both for himself and for the successors of his throne and the Kingdom of Sweden, refuses irrevocably and permanently in favor of His Majesty the All-Russian Emperor and the successors of His throne and the Russian Empire, of all his rights and claims in the province below this, those conquered by His Imperial Majesty in the current war from the Swedish Power, namely: in the province of Kummenegord, Nyuland and Tavastgus, Abov and Bienerborg with the islands of Åland, Savolak and Karelian, Vazov, Uleaborg and parts of western Botnia to will be decided in the next article on the designation of borders.

    These provinces with all inhabitants, cities, ports, fortresses, villages and islands, as well as their accessories, advantages, rights and benefits will henceforth consist in the ownership and sovereign possession of the Russian Empire and forever join it.
    .


    Where is the "diet", where is "autonomy"? The Swedish provinces were simply transmitted, as Turkey indulged earlier and later, etc. The Emperor SAM gave them the right to a diet and autonomy (experimented and completely in vain, in my opinion), but could not give.
    And Finland wasn’t at all conventional suburb, and had almost all the attributes of the state.
    1. Aleksander
      Aleksander 9 June 2016 11: 09
      +6
      Incidentally, in RUSSIAN settlement MELNIKOVO In the Leningrad region there is a monument "For the Motherland" - this is a monument Finnish belay soldierskilled in the wars ..... against Soviet aggression (!) belay 1918-1945. ("PRO PATRIA 1918 1939-1940 1941-1945" ).
      What wildness ?! What is happening?

      Mind Russia, do not understand ...
      It remains to put up in Moscow "Monument to German soldiers who died in the war against Soviet aggression in 1941-45" ?! , belay
      1. Alexey T. (Oper)
        Alexey T. (Oper) 9 June 2016 13: 33
        +3
        Quote: Aleksander
        What wildness ?! What is happening?

        Why are you surprised? If a monument was erected in St. Petersburg to Mannerheim (the man who, together with Hitler, starved the population of the city), then to put a monument in the region to the Chukhite Nazis is a sacred thing for our liberalists ...
      2. Monarchist
        Monarchist 21 June 2016 15: 46
        0
        Field Marshal, thanks for the info.
    2. qwert
      qwert 9 June 2016 12: 32
      +2
      Quote: Aleksander
      Finland completely departed to Russia as an autonomous principality with its own constitution and parliament. But these rights were then curtailed by the tsarist government, and Finland turned into one of the outskirts of the Russian Empire.

      Quote: Aleksander
      Where is the "Diet", where is "autonomy"? It was simply the Swedish provinces that were transferred, as earlier and later the lands were given over to Turkey, etc. The emperor SAM gave them the right to a diet and autonomy (he experimented and completely in vain, in my opinion), or he could not.

      I see no contradiction. Well, the Swedes gave us Finland as their land. Well, our emperor accepted them as an autonomous principality with his own constitution and the Diet .. Well, as he wanted, he accepted it. He gave what he wanted to the Finns. That is why the emperor and the owner of new lands. It is also written: "Finland has completely ceded to Russia as an autonomous principality with its own constitution and diet." So she entered Russia as an autonomous principality with its own constitution and diet.
      1. Aleksander
        Aleksander 9 June 2016 14: 26
        0
        Quote: qwert
        It is written as follows: "Finland completely ceded to Russia as an autonomous principality with its own constitution and diet

        She moved away simple former provinces of Sweden(that is, no rights, we read the Treaty), and not an autonomous principality.
    3. goose
      goose 9 June 2016 15: 39
      +2
      Quote: Aleksander
      And Finland at all was not an ordinary outskirts, but had almost all the attributes of the state.

      The model of Finland as part of the Republic of Ingushetia was similar to Livonia, but the Finns still had their own parliament and even an army.
    4. Monarchist
      Monarchist 21 June 2016 15: 43
      0
      Field Marshal, you are right: Finland was not usually a suburb, but even had its own armed forces in the imperial army. Find a lot of such outskirts? Emir Bukhara also had his army, something in the region of tens of thousands of Asker (now I won’t tell you the exact number)
  13. Basil50
    Basil50 9 June 2016 09: 18
    +7
    The author lied in the main. The Finns started the war and sought to capture the entire Kola Peninsula more than once. In the 19th year, the Finns started the war, when they were rebuffed, they were forced to declare war upon the conclusion of a peace treaty. And in 1922, everything happened exactly the same: before the conclusion of a peace treaty, they declared war. In 1939, Finnish provocations involving shelling of border guards from artillery were not isolated. Already in the spring of 1939, the entire army of Finland was completely mobilized, and this was about 500000 fighters (five hundred thousand), airfields were prepared for the * allied * finals of French and English aviation, and the Finns were quite Nazis, right down to the swastika on the flags. By the way, at the conclusion of a peace treaty, the Finns were forced to recognize aggression against the SOVIET UNION.
    How the war began in the 1939 year fits perfectly into the Trotskyist practice carried out in Spain; when the enemy comes, raise a rebellion in the rear and seize power, and then negotiate with the aggressor. It is a pity that on the eve of the war it did not make it possible to fully investigate ties with Trotsky, whom the USA prepared as dictators.
    And in 1941, the Finns have mined the territorial waters of the SOVIET UNION since June 18, they began shelling the border guards along with the Germans, and the war was declared a day later.
    1. faiver
      faiver 9 June 2016 10: 25
      +2
      peoples always gaining independence (especially if they never had it) and even limited sovereignty begin to build very ambitious plans and even try to play with muscles - this was with the Finns after 17 and after the collapse of the USSR both in the Union and autonomous republics ...
    2. qwert
      qwert 9 June 2016 12: 39
      +2
      Quote: Vasily50
      The author lied in the main.
      How the war began in the 1939 year fits perfectly into the Trotskyist practice carried out in Spain; when the enemy comes, raise a rebellion in the rear and seize power, and then negotiate with the aggressor. It is a pity that on the eve of the war it did not make it possible to fully investigate ties with Trotsky, whom the USA prepared as dictators.


      Not understood. It goes Trotsky unleashed a war in Spain and Finland in order to become a dictator posed by the United States ??? Here is a twist. I have not heard such an alternative story hi
      1. Basil50
        Basil50 9 June 2016 14: 36
        +3
        It is clear that * to the true Trotskyist * about his ideologist is possible only with * aspiration * and enthusiasm. But the fact that in Mexico your boss was lured by the USA is a fact, as well as the fact that the Trotskyists rebelled in Madrid when the phalangists attacked. And in 1940 they killed him precisely for his expressed desire * to seize power * during the military failure of the SOVIET UNION.
        1. Monarchist
          Monarchist 21 June 2016 16: 25
          0
          Trotsky was killed by Mercader, as a result of a carefully thought-out operation under the leadership of Sudoplatov. Regarding the Trotskyist rebellion, it was like this, but "... the eve of war did not make it possible to fully investigate ties with Trotsky ..." Stalin did not need an investigation: they are a friend they knew the friend perfectly and neither one nor the other bothered with the investigation
      2. The comment was deleted.
    3. goose
      goose 9 June 2016 15: 43
      +1
      Surprisingly, after the Winter War in Finland, martial law was not canceled until the beginning of the Second World War.
    4. Starina_hank
      Starina_hank 9 June 2016 19: 50
      -4
      I will tell you a secret "fascist" swastika and is now applied on the planes of the Finnish Air Force, despite all the laws and decisions on denazification, tk. has no sexual relation to the fascist swastika. And in the Patriotic War, the Finns did not go beyond the old Soviet-Finnish border, no matter how the Germans shoved them in the ass. After that, on the Karelian front, there were practically no hostilities for about 2 years!
      1. Alexey T. (Oper)
        Alexey T. (Oper) 9 June 2016 22: 23
        +2
        Quote: Starina_Hank
        And the Finns did not go beyond the old Soviet-Finnish border into the Patriotic War,

        Well yes. Petrozavodsk, he was always Chukhonsky. And the border of 1939 of the year with Chukhnia, it was just along the Svir River and ran. laughing

        Dear, have you tried to study history before you meddle in disputes on historical topics?
    5. Starina_hank
      Starina_hank 9 June 2016 19: 50
      0
      I will tell you a secret "fascist" swastika and is now applied on the planes of the Finnish Air Force, despite all the laws and decisions on denazification, tk. has no sexual relation to the fascist swastika. And in the Patriotic War, the Finns did not go beyond the old Soviet-Finnish border, no matter how the Germans shoved them in the ass. After that, on the Karelian front, there were practically no hostilities for about 2 years!
      1. voyaka uh
        voyaka uh 11 June 2016 22: 34
        -1
        Mannerheim, who lived half his life in St. Petersburg and spoke Russian better than Finnish,
        unequivocally ordered Leningrad not to destroy. Although technically he could. Helsinki bombed immediately on the first day
        The Winter War on November 30, 1939. And at the very beginning of the Second World War, they bombed again, although Finland by June 22
        had no relationship. There were no "lines of defense" along the old border in 41 - they were
        dismantled. Finns no one stopped near Leningrad. They stopped themselves where they wanted.
        Therefore, in 44, the Soviet troops did not continue the attack on Helsinki, but stopped, taking Vyborg.
        Courtesy of courtesy.
        1. Parsec
          Parsec 12 June 2016 02: 32
          +1
          Quote: voyaka uh
          Mannerheim, who lived half his life in St. Petersburg and spoke Russian better than Finnish,
          unequivocally ordered Leningrad not to destroy. Although technically he could.


          And so the Finns made up the northern section of the blockade of Leningrad, clearly imagining its consequences?

          What technically could destroy Leningrad Mannerheim? The Germans did not dare to storm Leningrad.

          Who, when, by whose order, dismantled the KaUR defense line along the old border?
          Some buildings are still there. Again a set of urban legends.
          1. overb
            overb 12 June 2016 15: 43
            -1
            Quote: Parsec
            And so the Finns made up the northern section of the blockade of Leningrad,

            There was no full-fledged blockade of Leningrad. There was only a land lock on it, while water supply was quite affordable. Yes, and by air, in general, too.
            1. Monarchist
              Monarchist 21 June 2016 16: 37
              0
              It’s a pity that a full-fledged blockade did not work, so what? But it was only in Ladoga that there was a connection, and the airborne ... cat laugh: the Red Army did not have huge transport men at that time, and the available ones were a convenient target for the Germans. Without air supremacy this is ...
        2. overb
          overb 12 June 2016 15: 38
          -1
          Quote: voyaka uh
          Therefore, in 44, the Soviet troops did not continue the attack on Helsinki, but stopped, taking Vyborg.
          Courtesy of courtesy.

          This "Soviet courtesy" was called Britain and the United States. As far as they allowed the USSR to advance into Finland, as far as it advanced.
          Let me remind you that during WWII the USA and Finland were not at war. But Britain declared war on Finland only in December 2. after repeated demands of the Soviet leadership.
    6. strannik1985
      strannik1985 12 June 2016 08: 20
      +1
      In the fall of 1939, the number of Finnish Armed Forces was 337 thousand people (Air Force, Air Force, Navy, Civil Defense, armed local guards and reserve units), of which 294 thousand people in the Army, 33,2 thousand in the Navy and BO (including 8650 people transferred from SV), 10 thousand people in the Air Force and Air Defense. Slon 76
      May I know your source?
    7. Monarchist
      Monarchist 21 June 2016 16: 08
      0
      Ensign, "... provocations of the Finns with shelling of border guards from artillery ..." there are a little bit of shelling and provocations: back in the late 80s, I read somewhere (in some Soviet magazine) that there were provocations from two sides: it is known about 2 or 3 gun westrels in the no-man's land from the Soviet side.
  14. unknown
    unknown 9 June 2016 09: 30
    -7
    Yes, the Finns did not need "Great Finland" to the Urals.
    With the beginning of the Second World War, they reached their old border. And that’s all.

    And Stalin in the Finnish war could not reach Helsinki. Otherwise, I would have received a blow from the south. In Baku, from the British and French.

    And in terms of strengthening the security of Leningrad, the Finnish war was not needed.
    Apparently, the Germans did not have plans for occupation and destruction of the city.
    Until 1917, the population of the city was mainly made up of Germans. During the so-called revolution, this population was physically destroyed.
    During the blockade, military factories worked in the city, tanks were made in hundreds of pieces, ammunition in millions, a significant part went to the mainland. The Kirov plant was within the reach of German artillery, but was not destroyed by it. There are a lot of secrets in the blockade, as in the whole war.
    1. Basil50
      Basil50 9 June 2016 10: 11
      +7
      About * unwillingness * to grab land for * Great Finland * tell the finals themselves, they will be very surprised. This is completely the merit of the RED ARMY that broke the finals, and did not allow to develop the offensive. The fact that the Finns did in the occupied territories and how they destroyed the SOVIET CITIZENS is not a secret, only * democrats * try not to recall the Nazi practice of Finns. However, myths are being told about other enemies of the RUSSIAN PEOPLE today in the spirit of the unforgettable Goebels.
    2. faiver
      faiver 9 June 2016 10: 19
      +6
      Nothing that the Finns rested on the Karelian UR on the old border?
      British strike on Baku was in question
      And about the plans of the Germans, I’m completely shocked ...
    3. voyaka uh
      voyaka uh 9 June 2016 10: 23
      +2
      "The Kirov plant was within the reach of the German artillery,
      but it was not destroyed by it "////

      There is no secret. After the assault on the city was finally canceled
      (due to the lack of necessary forces deployed near Moscow)
      only distant artillery remained in the offensive arsenal of the Germans.
      But the number of shells was limited, and shot strictly by the clock
      a few dozen a day. All Leningraders knew this schedule,
      but it wasn’t easier for them - they were dying of hunger, and not of shells.
      The Finns stopped at their old border; they never shot at the city.
      1. Simpsonian
        Simpsonian 9 June 2016 10: 30
        +3
        cartridges saved ...

        Quote: voyaka uh
        Leningraders knew this schedule,
        but it wasn’t easier for them - they were dying of hunger, and not of shells.


        with the captives they atrocized somewhere between the Hungarians and the Germans
      2. The comment was deleted.
      3. faiver
        faiver 9 June 2016 10: 36
        +3
        but they shot at Kronstadt and more than once or twice ...
      4. Alexey T. (Oper)
        Alexey T. (Oper) 9 June 2016 13: 36
        +2
        Quote: voyaka uh
        All Leningraders knew this schedule,
        but it wasn’t easier for them - they were dying of hunger, and not of shells.

        They also died from shells, because the Germans specially shot during the day at tram stops and other crowded places.
      5. Alexey RA
        Alexey RA 9 June 2016 14: 24
        +4
        Quote: voyaka uh
        The Finns stopped at their old border; they never shot at the city.

        The Finns stopped at their old border only along the Karelian Isthmus. And then for one simple reason - the battles on the Karelian Isthmus gained enough time to bring the KaUR defense system at least to a minimum combat-ready state. Somehow, there were no people willing to advance a kilometer through the swamp under fire of the "maxims" installed in the bunkers.

        But to the north of Ladoga, the Finns reached the Svir and almost closed the "big ring".
      6. Alexey T. (Oper)
        Alexey T. (Oper) 10 June 2016 15: 21
        +3
        Modern historians claim that allegedly the Chukhna did not shoot at Peter.

        I beg to differ. Two of my grandmothers survived the blockade and told me that the northern areas of the city were shelled by artillery. Moreover, on the wall of the house in the area of ​​Kantemirovskaya Square (metro station "Lesnaya") there is a commemorative plaque stating that the side is the most dangerous during shelling. The German artillery did not reach there. The question is: who then shot?

        By the way, at Hanko, the Chukhontsev captured two batteries of our artillery train mounts in caliber 305 and 180-mm. They could not restore the 305-mm, but three 180-mm installations with a firing range of 37500 m were restored. To Beloostrov from Kantemirovskaya Square 27 km. Chukhontsev was stopped just near Beloostrov, where in the battle with the Chukhon armored train 11 on September 1941, my second cousin, the commander of the fire platoon of the artillery regiment of the 115 rifle division, was seriously injured.
    4. The comment was deleted.
    5. Alexey RA
      Alexey RA 9 June 2016 13: 29
      +5
      Quote: ignoto
      With the beginning of the Second World War, they reached their old border. And that’s all.

      What are you saying? And when was the border of Finland passing along the Svir? wink
      Quote: ignoto
      And in terms of strengthening the security of Leningrad, the Finnish war was not needed.
      Apparently, the Germans did not have plans for occupation and destruction of the city.

      Were
      ... based on the directives of the High Command, I order:

      1. Block the city of Leningrad with a ring as close as possible to the city itself in order to save our strength. Requirements for surrender not to push.

      2. In order for the city, as the last center of red resistance in the Baltic, to be destroyed as quickly as possible without major casualties on our part, it is forbidden to storm the city with infantry forces. After the defeat of the enemy’s air defense and fighter aircraft, their defensive and vital abilities should be broken by destroying water supply stations, warehouses, sources of power supply and power plants. Military structures and the enemy's ability to defend must be suppressed by fires and artillery fire. Every attempt of the population to go outside through the encirclement forces should be prevented, if necessary, with the use of weapons ...

      Quote: ignoto
      During the blockade, military factories worked in the city, tanks were made in hundreds of pieces, ammunition in millions, a significant part went to the mainland. The Kirov plant was within the reach of German artillery, but was not destroyed by it.

      "Hundreds of tanks" (commonly referred to as 713) are not manufactured tanks. These are all tanks delivered to the front, including those from repairs.

      The release of tanks in the blockade was carried out by the LMZ, on which unevacuated remnants of the tank production of the city were collected. Kirovsky Zavod, having released 30 KV on its premises in October, also moved the backlog of tanks and tank production to the Vyborg side.
    6. Alexey T. (Oper)
      Alexey T. (Oper) 9 June 2016 13: 35
      +9
      Quote: ignoto
      Yes, the Finns did not need "Great Finland" to the Urals.
      With the beginning of the Second World War, they reached their old border. And that’s all.

      I did not hear something that Petrozavodsk, occupied by the Chukhons in the 1941 year, once belonged to Chukhna. And the fact that the border with them in the 1939 year passed along the Svir River, also did not hear.
      1. Alexey RA
        Alexey RA 9 June 2016 14: 17
        +2
        Quote: Alexey T. (Opera)
        I did not hear something that Petrozavodsk, occupied by the Chukhons in 1941, once belonged to Chukhna.

        And just in case, they took this - so that there again petroskoijarit (Petrozavodsk crooks) would not spawn. smile
        Uralin taa, Uralin taa,
        siellä onpi Molotoffin torpan maa.
        Sinne pääsee Stalinit ja muutkin huijarit,
        politrukit, komissaarit ja petroskoijarit.
        Njet Molotoff, njet Molotoff,
        valehtelit enemmän kuin itse Bobrikoff.
    7. goose
      goose 9 June 2016 15: 47
      +2
      Quote: ignoto
      Yes, the Finns did not need "Great Finland" to the Urals.
      With the beginning of the Second World War, they reached their old border. And that’s all.

      It is not true, claims on territories officially existed. The Finns wanted just as much to profit from the fish in the muddy waters, as did the Poles.

      They didn’t advance abroad only in the direction of Leningrad, because they ran into a powerful line of defense that they could not make out. To the north, in the region of Ladoga, they crossed far abroad, which contributed to the early encirclement of Leningrad.
  15. creak
    creak 9 June 2016 10: 12
    +6
    You can discuss for a long time on the topic of the war with Finland, what would happen, etc.
    I believe that in this case one should still rely on facts, and not be guided by emotions. But the facts are such that the outcome of the war and the serious losses of the Red Army could not be different.
    In this regard, the Act of transfer of NPOs of the USSR from Voroshilov Timoshenko in May 1940, which is now declassified and is in the public domain, is very informative.
    In it, without varnishing and embellishment, with a long list of shortcomings, the true state of the Red Army after 15 years of Voroshilov’s tenure as People’s Commissar of Defense is characterized.
    It is no coincidence that, following an analysis of his activities and the results of the Finnish war, he was subjected to devastating criticism and was dismissed from his post ...
    Under the new People’s Commissar, the Red Army began long overdue, and in some cases overripe reforms, which the Great Patriotic War didn’t allow to finish, but some lessons were learned and a lot, but far from all of what was planned, they managed to do ..
  16. Pinkie F.
    Pinkie F. 9 June 2016 10: 47
    +2
    Thank you for the article. I highly recommend reading Bair Irincheev.
    1. Alexey RA
      Alexey RA 9 June 2016 14: 01
      +1
      Quote: Pinky F.
      I highly recommend reading Bair Irincheev.

      In the interwar Finland of 1939-1941 and its drift towards the Reich, we can also recommend Mauno Jokipija. Very well removes the question of the "neutrality" of the Finns before June 25, 1941.
      1. Alexey T. (Oper)
        Alexey T. (Oper) 9 June 2016 14: 23
        +4
        Quote: Alexey RA
        Very well removes the question of the "neutrality" of the Finns before June 25, 1941.

        What kind of neutrality of the Chukhons before the 25 of June 1941 of the year can we talk about if they started mobilizing the 17 of June of the 1941 of the year and of the 22 of June fired at our frontier posts on the coast of the Vyborg Bay, trying to attack them repeatedly?
        1. Alexey RA
          Alexey RA 9 June 2016 16: 01
          +3
          Quote: Alexey T. (Opera)
          What kind of neutrality of the Chukhons before the 25 of June 1941 of the year can we talk about if they started mobilizing the 17 of June of the 1941 of the year and of the 22 of June fired at our frontier posts on the coast of the Vyborg Bay, trying to attack them repeatedly?

          And this is a favorite feature of revisionists and liberals: "aggressive Stalin attacked peaceful Finland on June 25.06.41, XNUMX, which, defending itself, entered the war ... but without it, it could have remained neutral". Mauno Jokipii just shows that there was no smell of neutrality - the Finns, even before the war, settled in the wake of the Reich and agreed on military plans.

          In addition to the above, you also had:
          - mining of Soviet territorial waters from Finnish submarines 22.06.41;
          - the division, even before 22.06, of the zones of responsibility with the Germans with the transfer of Finnish troops north of the dividing line under German command, and German, south - under Finnish;
          - The provision of airfields for the deployment of German reconnaissance and bombers (1./KGr. 806 was already in Malmi on 22.06).
          On 20.6.1941 two German Dornier Do 215B long-range reconnaissance aircraft and one Heinkel He 111 of Kommando Luonetjärvi ie Kette 1.Staffel / Fernaufklärungsgruppe Oberbefehlshaber der Luftwaffe (Ke.1./Aufkl.Gr.(F) Ob.dL) ( code T5 +) (Hauptmann Bolle) flew to Luonetjärvi airbase in Central Finland. Between 18. - 20.6. three Heinkel He 111P transport planes delivered a German radio station to the base and on 21.6.1941/20.6/22.6 German personnel arrived in Luonetjärvi. Kette operated from Luonetjärvi on 20.8.1941. and between 13.9.1941. - XNUMX photographing the regions of Leningrad - Murmansk railway and Stalin's Canal in East Karelia. Kommando Luonetjärvi left Finland as late as on XNUMX.

          Another airfields commonly used by the long-range reconnaissance planes of Aufkl. Gr. (F) Ob.dL and long-range reconnaissance units of Luftflotte 1 were Malmi (Helsinki) and Utti... During 21.6. - 28.8.1941 Heinkel He 111 recon plane flew a total of 16 missions from Malmi and between 12. - 18.11.1941/215/6 Dornier Do XNUMXB carried out XNUMX missions.

          Kampfgruppe 806 (KGr. 806) Prowehren,? .8.-27.10.41 Riga, 1./KGr. 806 Malmi (Finland) 22.6.-7.41

          - refueling of German aircraft that participated in laying mines at the BF bases in the Gulf of Finland (it was them that ours most likely took for "Luftwaffe focus on Finnish airfields");
          - based in Finland, German minzag ships, which placed the MH in the Gulf of Finland on the night of June 22.
          1. Starina_hank
            Starina_hank 9 June 2016 20: 04
            +1
            And we thought that the calm Finnish guys would silently wipe off and love their big evil neighbor? Nothing like that! The German comrades offered to participate and they did not refuse. You just need to remember this, and not to kiss everyone in a row in all places!
            1. Monarchist
              Monarchist 21 June 2016 16: 47
              0
              Right said
  17. Simpsonian
    Simpsonian 9 June 2016 11: 15
    0
    What was cut there if she returned to the Grand Duchy of Finland?
  18. shrimp
    shrimp 9 June 2016 12: 19
    +1
    maybe Finns should recognize that they are invaders
    1. faiver
      faiver 9 June 2016 13: 09
      +4
      almost losing their independence twice - in 1940 and in 1944 they "unexpectedly" grew wiser and decided not to tempt fate anymore :), the Balts are apparently not so smart :)
  19. overb
    overb 9 June 2016 14: 05
    +1
    Quote: Technical Engineer
    The real goal of the Soviet Union was indeed to strengthen the Soviet north-western borders, the security of Leningrad, as well as our ice-free port in Murmansk and the railway.

    Some fruit by the name of Ulyanov and nicknamed Lenin had to think about this at the time. Then everything could be solved with a simple stroke of the pen.
    1. Monarchist
      Monarchist 21 June 2016 16: 50
      0
      Here I agree, but then the aforementioned comrade raved about the World Resolution.
  20. kardan
    kardan 9 June 2016 15: 30
    0
    In the first comments, a video was posted by Dmitry Puchkov (Goblin) with Bair Irincheev. Now I'm reading his book, just after I came across this intelligence poll.
    Regarding Trotsky and relations with the United States. Wasn't Woodrow Wilson happy with his American passport?
    1. Alexey T. (Oper)
      Alexey T. (Oper) 9 June 2016 15: 39
      -1
      Quote: kardan
      Regarding Trotsky and relations with the United States. Wasn't Woodrow Wilson happy with his American passport?

      This is completely off topic, but I think that this is a myth. Trotsky spent only two weeks in the USA. Given the bureaucratic and legislative difficulties during this period, he simply could not have obtained American suport under any circumstances.
  21. Aviator_
    Aviator_ 9 June 2016 22: 18
    +2
    Good article. The result of the Soviet-Finnish war was in addition a change in the winter uniform of the army and the acquisition of invaluable experience in conducting military operations in the winter. All this greatly helped in the battle of Moscow in 1941.
  22. Jääkorppi
    Jääkorppi 10 June 2016 10: 44
    -1
    As always, a huge number of completely incompetent comments! The relations of the Slavs, Scandinavians and Finnish tribes began in the 5th century, when a single Finno-Scandia was formed! From which the Russian state was born! Accordingly, the relations of Finns, Swedes and Russians in the northwest are quite complicated and it is very difficult for outsiders to understand, especially since ideology and political interests often make history present on one side only! As well as the swastika on Finnish military equipment has nothing to do with fascist (as well as on Kerensky and Soviet banknotes). The cause of the war was Ryuti's anti-Soviet policy, well paid by the Anglo-French bourgeoisie. Although it should be noted that it was also partly forced, the rupture of centuries-old economic ties with Russia (as in the 90s, after the collapse of the USSR) pushed Finland into the arms of Europe!
    1. reservist
      reservist 11 August 2017 11: 28
      0
      Quote: JääKorppi
      ... the swastika on Finnish military equipment has nothing to do with fascist ...


      about hakaristi ...
      When you see it on state symbols, the first thing they say to you is It has nothing to do with Nazism. After all, it appeared in Finland much earlier than World War II.

      For further questions, they will tell an entertaining story about the Swedish count von Rosen, who, sympathizing with the Finns, presented them with his plane, which depicted his family swastika, and since then they have drawn the swastika on airplanes, then on tanks, as well as banners and awards. They will tell that it was in 1918, and that the German Nazis began to use this symbol only two years later in 1920.


      Then it turns out that von Rosen and Goering, one of the leaders of the German Nazi party, turns out to be married to sisters, but this again does not mean anything like that. Then the truth will have to admit that it so happened, as it were, not entirely by accident. Eric Gohring and his future wife were introduced by Eric von Rosen himself, and not in any other way. Finns are important to correct this, that the friends German and Eric were in the castle von Rosenov that evening quite by accident, the weather was bad - this changes a lot.

      The fact that the swastika is the family sign of Count von Rosen doesn’t turn out to be in any way quite the same, and that you probably thought that the swastika is a sign of the von Rosenov family, which is carefully inherited by each generation from the pope, from grandfather, from the distant medieval great-great ..- great-grandfathers who fought with the swastika on the shield for their count's honor, was not. Oh yes, the Finns will explain, young Eric, while still at school, was fond of history and saw the swastika somewhere on ancient runes and made it his personal sign. In short, Eric just liked to draw a swastika.

      But this is true because it doesn’t mean anything, the philanthropist presented a noble Finland with a plane, on which he romanticly painted an ancient rune. And all sorts of his Nazi relatives and friends also naturally have nothing to do with this story. You never know.

      But if you start asking about the personality of Eric von Rosen, it turns out that the philanthropist sympathized not only with noble Finland, it turns out he sympathized, or rather was, a prominent figure in Swedish national socialism, a Nazi.

      In general, the people who developed Nazism and were the ones who gave the swastika of Finland. And if for Germany Nazism was then only a project, then for Finland it was already a state ideology from its very independence.


      And such a story, according to the Finns, allows them to use the swastika in their modern state symbols, and consider all attacks in pro-Nazism to be unjust.

      Also, the Finns say that in World War II they did not fight under the Nazi swastika, but it was their Finnish swastika, which, as we should already know, has nothing to do with Nazism, or that it was a swastika in general, abstract, something ancient, an amulet.

      Thus, from the very beginning, clearly linking itself to Nazism, Finland has never broken and demonstratively is not going to break this connection.

      And symbolism is only the tip of the iceberg, why Finland is the world leader in the neo-Nazi movement.

      By the way, it was Mannerheim who claimed the swastika as a state symbol in Finland.

      nfucku2.livejournal.com/2350.html
  23. Ivan Tartugai
    Ivan Tartugai 10 June 2016 11: 30
    +2
    Quote from the article:
    "When, after the German attack, the Polish army found itself on the brink of disaster, the Soviet troops undertook a campaign in Western Ukraine and Western Belarus, and in 12 days advanced up to 350 kilometers in places."


    The Polish army was not on the verge of disaster, but with the Polish army suffered a complete disaster.
    Chronology of events:
    on September 1 the Wehrmacht crossed the German-Polish border and proceeded to seize Poland;
    on September 6 the Polish government secretly left Warsaw and moved closer to the border, to Lublin;
    on September 7 the commander-in-chief of the Polish army, Marshal E. Rydz-Smigly with his headquarters took refuge in the fortress of Brest;
    on September 8 the Polish government moved even closer to the Polish-Romanian border in Kremenets and negotiations began on the possibility of emigration of the government to France through Romania, government ceased;
    on September 10 Marshal E. Rydz-Smigly issued the Commander-in-Chief of the Polish Army last order, then the central command of the Polish army was no longer there;
    on September 16 the Polish government left for Romania, leaving the people and country to their fate, a complete disaster for Poland as a state;
    on September 17 the USSR government ordered the Red Army to cross the state border and stop the further advance of the Wehrmacht to the east.
    Soviet troops took a campaign in Western Ukraine and Western Belarus, when Poland as a state was no longer there.
    1. overb
      overb 10 June 2016 17: 26
      0
      Quote: Ivan Tartugay
      On September 17, the USSR government ordered the Red Army to cross the state border and stop the further advance of the Wehrmacht to the east.

      Yeah. So it turns out the Red Army stopped the advance of the Wehrmacht east in 1939. And so he would probably go, go and so to Tokyo.
      Enchanting. There are no words. And what did you agree on in the annexes to the non-aggression treaty? Are you apparently not aware of this?
      1. Ivan Tartugai
        Ivan Tartugai 10 June 2016 19: 13
        +1
        Quote: overb
        "And so he would probably go, go and so to Tokyo."


        And so he would probably go and go, and so could it be, and to Tokyo.
        But the desire was, maybe it was, and now, as the youth says “bad luck”, the Wehrmacht met the Soviet Union and the Red Army on the east.

        Quote: overb
        “And what did you agree on in the annexes to the non-aggression treaty, is that apparently you aren’t in the know?”


        No one saw these annexes to the contract. In the West they say and write that there is supposedly a photocopy of a copy of the annex to the non-aggression treaty, though with a large number of errors, including geographical ones. However, no one saw the appendix to the contract in the original, you apparently do not know?
        1. overb
          overb 10 June 2016 20: 14
          0
          Quote: Ivan Tartugay
          No one saw these annexes to the contract.

          Quote: Ivan Tartugay
          However, no one saw the appendix to the contract in the original, you apparently do not know?

          Of course, no one. Of those who do not want to see anything. And so, please, there are no problems. Declassified back in 1992. And even published in the journal "New and Contemporary History", No. 1 for 1993. You can read it yourself: https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%A1%D0%B5%D0%BA%D1%80%D0%B5%D1%82%D0%BD%D1%8B% D
          0%B9_%D0%B4%D0%BE%D0%BF%D0%BE%D0%BB%D0%BD%D0%B8%D1%82%D0%B5%D0%BB%D1%8C%D0%BD%D1
          %8B%D0%B9_%D0%BF%D1%80%D0%BE%D1%82%D0%BE%D0%BA%D0%BE%D0%BB_%D0%BA_%D0%94%D0%BE%D
          0%B3%D0%BE%D0%B2%D0%BE%D1%80%D1%83_%D0%BE_%D0%BD%D0%B5%D0%BD%D0%B0%D0%BF%D0%B0%D
          0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BD%D0%B8%D0%B8_%D0%BC%D0%B5%D0%B6%D0%B4%D1%83_%D0%93%D0%B5%D1%80%D
          0%BC%D0%B0%D0%BD%D0%B8%D0%B5%D0%B9_%D0%B8_%D0%A1%D0%A1%D0%A1%D0%A0
          1. Ivan Tartugai
            Ivan Tartugai 11 June 2016 05: 41
            +3
            Quote overb:
            “Of course, no one. Of those who do not want to see anything ...
            Declassified back in 1992. And even published in the journal "New and Contemporary History", No. 1 for 1993. "


            Of course, "Saw" and it was only those who wanted to see him.
            And probably his very first "had seen" Politburo member of the Central Committee of the CPSU, ideological secretary of the Central Committee of the CPSU, senior foreman of perestroika, right hand of the traitor-general secretary-president Mikhal Sergeyech, also a traitor, as well as an agent of American and Canadian intelligence, the famous "truth-teller" Yakovlev Alexander Nikolaevich.
            Then "saw" Colonel General Volkogonov and other "truth-tellers".
            Those. if you want to see, so please no problem. Even in several different slightly different versions. There is an option from a special folder of the Politburo of the Central Committee of the CPSU, there is a German option from film, there are other options. But there is no original, you will not see the original.
            1. overb
              overb 11 June 2016 09: 06
              +1
              Quote: Ivan Tartugay
              But there is no original, you will not see the original.

              Of course, you will not see. Do not go to the archive yet.
  24. Ivan Tartugai
    Ivan Tartugai 10 June 2016 12: 51
    +2
    Quote from the article:
    “In the note of the Soviet Union of November 26, 1939, for example, the Finnish government was accused of shelling by artillery, causing casualties. In response, the Finnish leadership denied the charges against it and proposed the creation of an independent commission to investigate the incident. ”


    The Finnish authorities still did not dare to directly accuse Moscow of provocation and expressed the version "about a possible accident that occurred during training exercises." At the same time, the Finnish authorities claimed that they had no hostility to the USSR.
    The Soviet Union this time too, i.e. again after another provocation, he did not want to inflate this Maynil incident, but nevertheless invited the Finnish government to withdraw troops 25 km from the state border in order to avoid a similar incident. In response, the Finnish government received a response proposal that the Soviet Union also withdraw troops for 25 km, i.e. the space between the Soviet-Finnish border and Leningrad should become free from Soviet troops.
    There was no talk of an independent commission; there was a proposal by the Finnish authorities that the border guards on both sides would sort out the incident themselves. In this case, they would have sorted it out, as they say: - before the Chinese Easter and would still not have figured it out.
    Those. Finnish authorities supported and entrenched by England and France behaved extremely arrogantly, put forward unacceptable demands and proposals, did not leave a single chance for a peaceful settlement of the incident.
    1. Alexey T. (Oper)
      Alexey T. (Oper) 10 June 2016 15: 35
      +3
      In addition to the shelling in Mineil, there were several (at least three) similar provocations.

      One in the Vidlitsa region on 29 on November 1939 of the year. Chuhnya also fired on our territory and tried to attack with infantry but was repelled.

      The second on the same day on the Rybachy Peninsula, was fired upon our border outfit. At the same time, in a clash, we took three prisoners.

      The third episode, if I am not mistaken in October 1939 of the year, was somewhat comical. The Chukhons from a machine gun fired at a car with their own delegation, which was driving to Helsinki for a consultation on negotiations in Moscow.
      1. Nukesmoke
        Nukesmoke 12 August 2017 16: 08
        0
        Paasikivi was driving in the car - probably the smartest of the Finnish political elite. Maybe they wanted to remove him, because he was a pragmatist, not a romantic.
    2. Nukesmoke
      Nukesmoke 12 August 2017 16: 16
      0
      Let's just say that the Finnish government fell into the virtuoso trap of Molotov. Accepting very generous Soviet proposals, having several hundred thousand “Lapuans” (more than half of Shudkar, and almost the entire cadre army was included there), would be like death. For the hard-won domestic political balance was torpedoed, and the Civil War broke out again in the country. This means conflict, and for this - mobilization. And since mobilization, the country's economy goes into a steep peak (in which it remained until 1946). And since the economic peak is war, this is the only way out. The USSR was completely agree on such a formulation of the question. It didn’t turn out as gracefully as if the USSR had provided assistance to the “victims of Finnish fascist lahtars” from Schyutskor, but just as effectively. True, the Communist Party of the Communist Party, hung openly on the ears on the issue of internal stability of Finland, and the euphoria from Khalkhin-Gol was strong (although serious doubts arose in Poland as to whether it was possible to rely on overwhelming technical superiority).
  25. Nukesmoke
    Nukesmoke 12 August 2017 16: 06
    0
    A bunker with a gun is definitely not Finnish.
  26. The comment was deleted.
  27. Molot1979
    Molot1979 2 September 2017 08: 05
    +1
    Once again about the expectations of the solidarity of the workers. If confusion with the German workers was quite logical, then a few words need to be said about the Finns. Expectations of an uprising in the rear of the Finnish army were unsuccessful, but not completely groundless. After all, just 20 years ago in Finland, its own Civil War raged between the Reds and the Whites. And the balance of power was 50/50. The Reds lost, but in spite of the terror, by 1940, the territories were divided into conditionally “red” and conditionally “white”. Which gave the USSR hope that the “reds” would remember all the good things in white and rise again. The expectation did not come true, but for him there were more real reasons than theoretical class solidarity.
  28. Yura Yakovlev
    Yura Yakovlev 1 November 2017 14: 27
    +1
    "The Finns were forced to resume negotiations. The result was a peace treaty concluded on March 12, 1940."

    As far as I know from the stories of my uncle, who went through the whole of Finnish, and awarded the Order of the Red Star, the situation was different. There was an agreement that the border between Finland and the USSR would be established along the front line at 12 a.m. on March 12, 1940. Our soldiers were told that the war would end at midnight. This was a fatal mistake of our command, the soldiers were determined to end the war, no one wanted to fight, let alone die on the last day. The Finns mobilized everything on their own and carried on a fierce offensive until midnight. Therefore, on this day there were the greatest losses on our part for the entire period of the Finnish campaign.