Military Review

Rifle "Exhaust": silent, large-caliber, our

124



The answer to this question is very difficult: large-caliber rifles create a powerful flash and roar like artillery weapon, and silent samples do not have a large firing distance. You have to choose which is more important: stealth or power.

The solution of the sniper dilemma came from the city, traditionally considered in Russia as the forge of all weapon innovations, - Tula. Gunmen TsKIB SOO (Central Design Research Bureau of sports and hunting weapons - branch of Instrument Design Bureau) developed a unique sniper rifle "Exhaust" - large-caliber and at the same time silent.

In fact, Exhaust is the name of the program for developing the weapon complex: a rifle and ammunition. The official abbreviation is a large-caliber sniper rifle - VKS, or CB-1367. The order for development came from the Center of Special Purpose of the Federal Security Service of Russia: the special forces wanted to get a weapon that could secretly destroy a target protected by armor at a great distance.


An order for weapons with unusual properties was received from the Special Purpose Center of the Federal Security Service of Russia
The main requirement of the special forces was the ability to secretly destroy the target, located at a sufficiently large distance and protected by armor or some kind of shelter. It turned out to be impossible to solve the task with the use of existing models of weapons or ammunition, therefore Tula gunsmiths began to create a whole complex - a large-caliber rifle plus ammunition.

Slow and inevitable

The creation of the "Exhaust" complex began with the development of ammunition. Since it was supposed to work at long distances, the 12,7 mm caliber was taken as a basis. In Russia, the 1930 x 12,7 cartridge, developed back in 108, was traditionally used to defeat remote targets, used in large-caliber sniper rifles, easel and aviation machine guns. Such ammunition is capable of hitting targets at a distance of more than 1 km and piercing armor steel sheets with a thickness of more than 10 mm.


Silver bullet with unusual outlines
has a steel core inside and weighs 79 g. With 100 m such a projectile will pierce through almost any body armor.

However, for the "Exhaust" complex, the old cartridge turned out to be too long. Tula gunsmiths decided to create a new ammunition caliber 12,7 x 54. The deadly product received a general index of SC-130 and several different types of bullets. Moreover, even the lightest of these bullets was much heavier than all previously created for this caliber. The version with the index of the PT weighs 59 g, and the heaviest UPU does 79 at all - a real heavyweight.
The weight of the projectile is not only the increased energy of the ammunition, which allows it to fly farther and hit harder, but also the reduced speed of escape from the barrel. The fact is that reducing the speed of a bullet to subsonic indicators (usually less than 300 m / s) is one of the most common ways to make a shot quieter: objects moving faster than the speed of sound are accompanied by a shock wave that is perceived subjectively by observers as a loud bang. Thus, the Tula gunsmiths could “get what cannot be” - they made a powerful cartridge, which at the same time does not rumble like a gun.


Tula gunsmiths abandoned the traditional "bolted" bolt in favor of the longitudinal-sliding
The reloading handle moves in a straight line, which is very convenient (in the case of a bolt lock, you would have to turn the handle, pull it back, and then return it to its place in the reverse order). The lever of preliminary moving is built in the handle. To pull back the bolt, the shooter must squeeze the “halves” of the handle together, thereby unlocking the bolt itself and hooking the cartridge case to the rim to remove it from the receiver.


True, you have to pay for everything: compared to the standard 12,7 cartridge, which is capable of hitting targets at distances of 1500-2000 m, the new ammunition demonstrates an aimed range of 600-800 m. But Tula didn’t have the task to create another ultra-long anti-material rifle, such as Russian OSV-96 or American Barret M82. It was necessary not only powerful and accurate, but also silent weapons.

All cartridges SC-130 can be divided into two types - increased accuracy and increased penetration. The bullet of the cartridge of increased penetration ability has a steel core inside and differs in a rather bizarre form, resembling a multi-stage rocket. Such a “rocket” at distances up to 200 m is able to perforate a sheet of armor steel with a thickness of 16 mm, and with 100 m it will pierce almost any existing body armor.

In addition to the armor plates, such a cartridge easily breaks through a wooden wall or brickwork up to 10 thickness. At the same time, there is no doubt that wherever the bullet of the SC-130 cartridge gets, its victim is almost doomed: a dynamic blow to any part of the body in such a caliber is sure death, and in the case of contact with a limb, it is guaranteed to be torn apart and severe blood loss. By the way, the store "exhaust" fits five such deadly ammo.


To install a telescopic sight, it is not necessary to remove the front sight and the rear sight, you just need to fold them
In case of problems with optics, the mechanical sight is always at the ready.

Size matters

Having decided on the ammunition, the designers developed a “delivery tool” for it. First of all, it was necessary to make the weapon silent. If subsonic speed contributes to this in ammunition, then a silent shooting device (PBS) is used in the weapon, simpler - a silencer.

To effectively silence the cotton from the shot of such a powerful cartridge, you need a very large muffler. PBS turned out to be frightening: huge, almost half-meter. But the result is amazing: the shot of the “Exhaust” is so quiet that it looks more like a click of an air rifle. According to the subjective opinion of the author of the article, the sound of the shotgun VKS is even quieter than that of its colleagues - the special silent rifles “Vintorez” and VSK-94, and the caliber of these samples is 9 mm against 12,7 mm in Exhaust. In a busy urban environment, such a click will not be heard from a couple of dozen meters.

A fighter can comfortably fire without rifle headphones. The sound of a shot doesn’t hurt the shooter’s ears at all, even if the fire is in a deaf closed bunker, and anyone who has ever shot 12,7 caliber weapons knows: even “in the open air” such a shot can be contused, and in a closed space, it is guaranteed that it hurts hearing organs .


Pre-release lever
protects against spontaneous inertial reloading of the weapon under the action of a powerful recoil pulse when fired.

Having solved the issue of noiselessness, the designers faced a new challenge: a huge silencer promised to significantly increase the size of the rifle. And if at the very least we got used to standard 12,7 caliber models, then this one would surely have stretched about two meters, standing in line with the anti-tank guns of the Second World War. For weapons that are supposed to be used covertly, such dimensions are unacceptable.

To save the cherished centimeters, it was decided to take the bullpup system as a basis - not the most common for sniper weapons, but a fairly common layout scheme. In her store with ammunition is not located in front of the fire control handle, and behind it. At the same time, there is no need for a butt, since its role is played by a receiver biased back with a butt pad.

The layout of bullpup can significantly reduce the length of the weapon as a whole, while maintaining the length of the barrel. And after all, the firing distance directly depends on the length of the barrel. As a result, the designers managed to create a large-caliber rifle with a length of just over half a meter and weighing slightly more than 5 kg. With the silent shooting device installed, the length is 1125 mm and the weight is 7 kg.

The design of the weapon, it was decided to use the scheme with manual reloading, which gives a higher accuracy and accuracy of fire compared to automatic samples. The return of such weapons is less, because there is no inertia from the movement of the bolt inside the receiver. Finally, this design is simpler and easier, which affects the reliability and convenience.



Normally, the CB-1367 is equipped with mechanical sights - the front sight and the whole. An optical sight can be mounted on a rifle, for which Picatinny rail is mounted on top of the receiver on top. So that the fly and the rear sight did not overlap the optics, they were made folding. This is also useful because if the sight is suddenly damaged, the shooter can always pick up the mechanical sights and use them.

Perspective Shot

The development of VKS “Exhaust” was begun in 2002 year. The neck of secrecy from the new complex was removed relatively recently, so for a long time nothing was known about its existence. Today, the rifle is used in several special units of various law enforcement agencies of the Russian Federation.

Due to the specificity of the tasks and the high cost of the rifle, it was made by a very small batch. According to information in the media, in Tula, on the basis of this product and its ammunition, another type of weapon is being developed - the ASH-12 assault rifle. However, the representatives of the arms enterprise themselves do not confirm this information.

Author:
Originator:
http://www.popmech.ru/weapon/238038-vintovka-vykhlop-besshumnaya-krupnokalibernaya-nasha/
124 comments
Information
Dear reader, to leave comments on the publication, you must sign in.
  1. Razvedka_Boem
    Razvedka_Boem 5 June 2016 05: 39
    +30
    Price is not as important as efficiency. Moreover, this complex is produced only for the needs of special forces, and for craftsmen and weapons should be appropriate.
    1. Blondy
      Blondy 5 June 2016 10: 09
      +5
      Guys, you know, I'm not an expert. And of course the exhaust is good in its niche.
      But in the name of the principle "all sorts of mothers are needed, all sorts of mothers are important" I would like to offer you a link to this Lobaev model (link)
      http://lobaev.com/notes/tsvl-8-black-ops

      Also positioned as a silent uberblyushka - TSVL-8 BLACK-OPS -TSVL-8 Stalingrad
      The energy of the cartridge 338 Lapua Magnum does not allow to doubt that a sufficient amount of energy will be delivered to the addressee. This is not a half-pregnant charge on the principle of "just-was-quieter", no. All in an adult way. No compromises: 900 m per second with a bullet of 16, 2 grams, leaving the muzzle with humane 7000J.

      And what do competent people think about this?
      1. edge
        edge 5 June 2016 10: 50
        0
        Quote: Blondy
        But in the name of the principle "all sorts of mothers are needed, all sorts of mothers are important" I would like to offer you a link to this Lobaev model

        and where to shoot from it, only in the tundra. We (in Eurasia) have terrain that is rough, densely built up and overgrown with forests. The time of approach of a bullet will be calculated in a few seconds, the greater the range, the greater the derivation (deflection of the bullet in the direction of rotation) and therefore the probability hit (the conclusion to shoot only at a fixed target) so that live firing at long ranges (from 800 m) is an unlikely enterprise. Et about Lobaev rifles
        1. alpamys
          alpamys 5 June 2016 11: 02
          +10
          Quote: hert

          the greater the derivation (deflection of the bullet in the direction of rotation) and therefore the probability of being hit (the conclusion to shoot only at a fixed target) so that live firing at long ranges (from 800 m) is an unlikely enterprise. Et about Lobaev rifles


          it means it’s better to train, for example, among the Moraeans, they shoot for tens of kilometers, and there both derivation and humidity and swinging on the waves, both their own and the targets, fall on the same.
          1. Asadullah
            Asadullah 5 June 2016 21: 05
            +1
            they shoot tens of kilometers ....


            wassat Sorry, what are they shooting at?
          2. yehat
            yehat 6 June 2016 14: 01
            +1
            there is a whole navigation service with calculators
        2. Blondy
          Blondy 5 June 2016 12: 10
          +2
          I'm not talking about "dusk", but about the supposedly silent tactical "Stalingrad" "Black Ops".
          If I don’t confuse anything, there’s a brake like a quasi-silencer. Without a silencer, the effective range is up to 1600 m. And at such distances, in my opinion, in Afghanistan and in Donetsk, they shot someone and something.
          1. Mahmut
            Mahmut 5 June 2016 19: 01
            +5
            or brickwork up to 10 cm thick.

            This is in what cities they lay brick so.
            1. Asadullah
              Asadullah 5 June 2016 21: 09
              +5
              This is in what cities they lay brick so.


              laughing At landfills, and even lime with sand. In which case, the brick knocks out. You can say then, a dual-purpose bullet, and breaks through and can kill with a brick, if managed to hide behind the wall. Do not be saved, people, where is the truth ?!
            2. Tatar-in
              Tatar-in 6 June 2016 05: 27
              +2
              Friends, why kill a target behind a load-bearing wall? For this, cheaper and no less effective devices are intended, of which there are a great many. But to remove the interference through the partition while in the next room or building, this is enough
            3. uragan114
              uragan114 7 June 2016 13: 41
              0
              Quote: Mahmut
              or brickwork up to 10 cm thick.

              This is in what cities they lay brick so.


              In England laughing
              1. Bad_gr
                Bad_gr 7 June 2016 18: 25
                +1
                Quote: uragan114

                In england laughing

                Quite possible. In England, the average annual temperature is higher than in Sochi. There even bamboo grows. Their Gulf Stream is still warming. Here, for how long.
                1. overb
                  overb 7 June 2016 18: 44
                  0
                  Quote: Bad_gr
                  In England, the average annual temperature is higher than in Sochi.

                  The average annual temperature in Sochi over the past 10 years is 14,8 degrees.
                  The average annual temperature in London over the past 10 years is 11,7 degrees.
                  The average annual temperature in Astrakhan over the past 10 years is 11,5 degrees.
                  1. Bad_gr
                    Bad_gr 7 June 2016 19: 17
                    0
                    :) I have data from old statistics. When I came across - I was very surprised, since England is much more north.
                    Here, for example, January is quite comparable with Sochi
                    [img = left] biblioclub.ru/services/fks.php?fks_action=get_file&fks_flag=2&fks_id=b
                    se_img_images_02532_428190.jpg [/ img]
                    PS
                    I live in Sochi, the village of Dagomys
        3. Svidetel 45
          Svidetel 45 5 June 2016 23: 58
          +4
          in addition to the tundra, there are still vast plains in the south of Russia, and in mountainous areas the possibility of hitting a target at a distance determined only by the ability of the shooter and the technical capabilities of optics would not hurt.
        4. PKK
          PKK 6 June 2016 05: 44
          +3
          In Donetsk, shoot at least 5 km. And three as a hello. The exhaust will only lick at such distances.
        5. Wolka
          Wolka 6 June 2016 05: 47
          +5
          dear colleague, this device has an unambiguous application, a really modern battle is fleeting at close range, but there are also special tasks, to get out, say, an artillery fire corrector, here you really need a long aimed and uniquely lethal shot, without having to identify yourself, i.e. quiet...
        6. goose
          goose 6 June 2016 09: 42
          +2
          Quote: hert
          unlikely venture. Et about Lobaev rifles

          There is one more "BUT" on Lobaev rifles it is impossible to carry out full-fledged training, tk. the price tag just rolls over. It is much more effective to train snipers, at least for the SV-98, they are an order of magnitude better technically obtained for the same money and, most importantly, in large quantities, everything is produced in Russia. And the rifle is pretty good on its own.

          Specialists who knows how to get 600 meters from this miracle with the ballistics of a pistol?
      2. sharp-lad
        sharp-lad 5 June 2016 12: 53
        0
        Dear blonde, you probably lighten your hair several times a day!
        (There is such a humorous saying "The blonde thought her hair darkened") wink I am not a competent person, but relying on ammunition not manufactured in Russia is, in my opinion, not the most practical solution. And so, the Lobaev rifle causes excessive salivation.
        1. Kozliu
          Kozliu 7 July 2016 22: 28
          0
          another "unparalleled"
      3. Altona
        Altona 5 June 2016 13: 10
        +5
        Quote: Blondy
        And what do competent people think about this?

        ------------------
        You are comparing incomparable things. This is 9 mm, a long-range and very overall thing. In addition, it is more suitable for army operations. The article also indicated what was done and why. The appearance of the weapon, its mechanism, its caliber and dimensions are not just looming there.
        1. Bad_gr
          Bad_gr 5 June 2016 14: 05
          +8
          ".... According to information in the media, in Tula, on the basis of this product and ammunition for it, another type of weapon is being developed - the ASh-12 assault machine. However, the representatives of the weapons enterprise themselves do not confirm this information ...."

          But at exhibitions this machine appears.
          Although personally I can not imagine where such a miracle might be needed.

          1. cth; fyn
            cth; fyn 5 June 2016 16: 12
            +1
            Well, where to fight with aliens, the demo also says.
            Although, to be honest, the truth causes a certain rush, without an exoskeleton you won’t shoot from it, although it’s an automatic machine, and maybe ...
          2. Asadullah
            Asadullah 5 June 2016 21: 20
            0
            Although personally I can not imagine where such a miracle might be needed.


            Assault weapons. Although the question is more b / n, pancake ricochets. Indoors, the chance to kill the villain is the same to kill the shooter. Oh, this ricochet, I remember the case when a pistol bullet ricocheted between the thumb and forefinger of an arrow, and they took it out at the end of the forearm.
            1. The comment was deleted.
            2. BEECH 1972
              BEECH 1972 6 June 2016 18: 54
              0
              Quote: Asadullah

              Although the question is more b / n, pancake ricochets. Indoors, the chance to kill the villain is the same to kill the shooter.
            3. BEECH 1972
              BEECH 1972 6 June 2016 20: 58
              +3
              Quote: Asadullah
              Although the question is more b / n, pancake ricochets. Indoors, the chance to kill the villain is the same to kill the shooter.
              /// Well, in this case there is ammunition with a reduced risk of rebound. Soft shell or semi-shell with a cross-shaped incision, or a shellless shell of the DD type, with deforming belts, but without an expansive cavity. Such bullets are prohibited for use by regular armies, but are permitted and used by police and other law enforcement forces, due to the greatly reduced risk of rebound and a very impressive stopping power. Such a bullet simply sticks into any target, and hitting a similar weighted bullet of 12,7 mm caliber will be equivalent to hitting a good sledgehammer. Even a well-defended adversary will most likely be knocked down and will surely receive shock concussion, combined with injuries of varying severity or even fractures.
        2. Izotovp
          Izotovp 5 June 2016 17: 09
          +2
          Dear Blondie drew attention to the .338 caliber, but Lobaev has a more interesting and comparable caliber. This is a .40LW.
      4. ammunition
        ammunition 5 June 2016 16: 28
        +12
        Quote: Blondy
        And what do competent people think about this?


        sad
        A long time ago (more than 30 years ago), the competent developed an ultra-long-range, small-caliber rifle, with a heavy tungsten bullet.
        Bullet weight - 32 gr. Caliber - 6,5 mm.
        --------------------
        1) Bullet of small caliber and heavy weight very slightly loses speed in the air on the first 3 (three) kilometers of flight. So it easily penetrates the side of an armored personnel carrier to a distance of 2000 meters.
        2) A large barrel length - 1200 mm .., coupled with a very large initial bullet speed - 1250 m / s, allow you to make flat, ideally - gentle cuts of the barrel. And this gave a very rare accuracy.
        3) Heavy and small-caliber bullet does not require wind adjustments under normal conditions. That is - with a wind of not more than 5m / s.
        4) An ordinary silencer makes the rifle completely silent, at its most working distances - 2000 m.
        ------------------
        But repeat The project was hacked .. And forgot forever.
        You see, it's expensive. In those days .. one shot from such a rifle .. came out at a cost, like a shot from a D-30 howitzer.
        ---------------
        The generals were genuinely indignant .. They said - "Yes, it's better to blow a shell!" lol
        1. verboo
          verboo 5 June 2016 18: 54
          +2
          Quote: ammunition
          The caliber is 6,5 mm.

          That’s the reason for the failure. And the weight, of course, i.e. bullet length.
          Quote: ammunition
          However, feel the Project hacked off .. And forgot forever.
          You see, it's expensive. In those days .. one shot from such a rifle .. came out at a cost, like a shot from a D-30 howitzer.
          ---------------
          The generals were genuinely indignant .. They said - "Yes, it's better to blow a shell!"

          And this is a fantasy on a free theme and jokes.
          Quote: ammunition
          A bullet of small caliber and heavy weight very slightly loses speed in the air in the first 3 (three) kilometers of flight.

          No less than 2 times.
          Quote: ammunition
          So it easily pierces the side of an armored personnel carrier to a distance of 2000 meters

          What for? Also not necessarily easy.
          1. ammunition
            ammunition 5 June 2016 20: 08
            +12
            Quote: verboo
            That’s the reason for the failure. And the weight, of course, i.e. bullet length.

            Quote: verboo
            No less than 2 times.


            -------------------
            You scared me with your great rating. fellow But once I write the answer.

            The bullet in the barrel not only accelerates, but also spins in the rifling of the barrel. Spins up with acceleration. That is - the rifling of the trunk crush on the bullet to the very edge of the barrel. Because of this, the bullet flies with precession. The bullet nose is "walking".
            So that's it. Caliber 6,5 mm in our "product" does not come from anywhere.
            In our product, the full promotion of the bullet occurred on the first 800 millimeters of the barrel.
            Fortunately - the length of the barrel allowed. The following 200 mm bore had transition cutting. And the last 200 mm of the barrel, the bullet passed without any rifling pressure.
            Of course .. this made the rifling technology very difficult. But! But the bullet flew out strictly stabilized. No precession! No "festivities"!
            And so the braking power of the air, turned out to be the same as that of the machine gun 5,45.
            But the brake acceleration we had almost 10 (ten) times less than the bullet 5,45 !! F = ma. a = F / m. Bullet weight in 10 times more - braking acceleration in 10 times less.
            -------------
            Therefore, you are mistaken when you claimed that after the first 3000 meters of flight, our bullet lost half its speed.
            Not! At a distance of 3000 meters, the bullet speed was only slightly less than 1000 m / s.
            --------------------
            Regarding the BTR sad The bullet not only easily pierced its side, (on the dist. 2000 m), but also no less easily pierced the second side. And flew away .. like Carlson crying
            Excess ... panim .. power. And there's nothing to be done. With bullet energy, as much as in 24 000 j.
            1. verboo
              verboo 5 June 2016 20: 39
              0
              Quote: ammunition
              You scared me with your great rating.

              Does that mean something? Can you tell me what?
              But once I write the answer.

              Okay, I’ll read it once. And even once I answer. But do not count on more. I am such "experts" as you, as interlocutors are not interested.
              Caliber 6,5 mm in our "product" does not come from anywhere.

              Where from? Anyhow from there? laughing
              In our product, the full promotion of the bullet occurred on the first 800 millimeters of the barrel.
              Fortunately - the length of the barrel allowed. The next 200 mm of the barrel had a transition cut. And the last 200 mm of the barrel, the bullet passed without any rifling pressure.
              Of course .. this made the rifling technology very difficult. But! But the bullet flew out strictly stabilized. No precession! No "festivities"!

              Bububusenki. How verbose you are, and on abstract topics. You do not even understand what I wrote to you. So write everything in a row that somewhere they subtracted once. Imitate competency.
              And so the braking power of the air, turned out to be the same as that of the machine gun 5,45.

              Sweetheart. It is convenient to tell this DoHtur. Pilyulkin. And any Internet program for uneducated people will show that the ballistic coefficient (remember the correct term) of such a bullet will be significantly larger than that of a 5,45 mm Soviet bullet.
              But we had almost 10 (ten) times less braking acceleration than the 5,45 bullet !! F = ma. a = F / m. Bullet weight is 10 times more - braking acceleration is 10 times less.

              In short, you have trouble with ballistic calculators. Download yourself something from the Internet, there are a million of them, from the simplest to the most serious, and use your health.
              PS. But "brake acceleration" is a masterpiece. I applaud while standing.
              Quote: ammunition
              Therefore, you are mistaken when you claimed that after the first 3000 meters of flight, our bullet lost half its speed.
              Not! At a distance of 3000 meters, the bullet speed was only slightly less than 1000 m / s.

              Learn materiel, young man. You need.
              With bullet energy as much as 24 joules.

              And here you have a small puncture. 1250 * 1250 * 32/2/1000 = 25000 J.
              Quote: ammunition
              The bullet not only easily pierced its side, (on the dist. 2000 m), but also no less easily pierced the second side. And flew away .. like Carlson

              It is possible. In theory. When attacking strictly normal or so. But in practice, this is your speculation. Because such a bullet just ... breaks. Trying to normalize (you know what it is?) On the armor. And just the same, she will flash through a soldier. Which, cursing viciously, will be tied up with an indpack and will break the arrow with the head of a sapper blade. That's the whole "efficiency".
              PS. Rifles with a caliber of 12,7 mm, or at least a minimum of 7,62 mm, do it for a reason. Keep this in mind.
              And why, I won’t tell you. I have a small rating.
              1. goose
                goose 6 June 2016 10: 08
                +4
                Quote: verboo
                PS. But "brake acceleration" is a masterpiece. I applaud while standing.

                Incidentally, a perfectly normal statement in physics. In this case, deceleration meant the direction of the acceleration vector.
                Quote: verboo
                the ballistic coefficient (remember the correct term) of such a bullet will be significantly larger than that of a 5,45 mm Soviet bullet.

                And why more, is He known for this bullet? Maybe it is better than 5,45 and, accordingly, it really slows down less (both bullets without precession). There is also a not quite correct ballistic comparison, because 5,45 is fired from an assault rifle with an intermediate cartridge, which has an initial speed of about 900 m / s. In the given rifle, as it was written, it is significantly more than 1000 m / s. Roughly estimating, in aerodynamics the air resistance increases in proportion to the square of the speed. The air resistance for this high-speed bullet will be at least 20% greater than for the AK-74 ammunition. And yes, therefore, in% of the initial impulse, it is possible that this bullet will lose more than the AK-74, even if they have the same ballistic coefficient. But if you compare the bullets with the same energy and 2 times different masses, then according to the laws of conservation of energy, the speed of a heavy bullet will be 0,7 of the standard. That will give a 2-fold reduction in aerodynamic drag. Well, from above, polish the final value with a ballistic coefficient, if it differs.
                1. verboo
                  verboo 6 June 2016 10: 17
                  +2
                  Quote: goose
                  Incidentally, a perfectly normal statement in physics.

                  Try to find similar examples yet.
                  Quote: goose
                  And yes, therefore, in% of the initial impulse, it is possible that this bullet will lose more than the AK-74, even if they have the same ballistic coefficient.

                  Guessing and wondering is not necessary. I wrote there which programs you need to download from an Internet. Or even they are online. And all at once will fall into place.
                2. The comment was deleted.
            2. goose
              goose 6 June 2016 09: 51
              0
              Quote: ammunition
              With bullet energy as much as 24 joules

              It’s the same as from the DShK in the emphasis attach and press. Tin.
              1. verboo
                verboo 6 June 2016 09: 56
                +3
                Quote: goose
                This is the same as from the DShK in the emphasis to attach and click

                The DShK DE 17040 J.
                But if you "put and click", the effect will be completely different. The DShK is noticeably larger.
        2. The comment was deleted.
        3. Maxim73
          Maxim73 5 June 2016 21: 30
          +2
          Did you shoot from a bow or grenade launcher? A long projectile is very much affected by the influence of a crosswind - it unfolds in the wind. The speed of the projectile does not matter.
          1. ammunition
            ammunition 5 June 2016 23: 08
            0
            Quote: Maxim73
            Did you shoot from a bow or grenade launcher? A long projectile is very much affected by the influence of a crosswind - it unfolds in the wind. The speed of the projectile does not matter.


            Dear Maxim.
            A bullet and feathered shells (grenades, bow arrows) are very different things. sad
            1) No ballistic projectile deflects toward the wind.
            2) Only a rocket-propelled grenade "goes" to the wind, because it is a rocket-propelled grenade. sad
            But what does the bullet have to do with it?
            Heavy tungsten bullet - really insensitive to wind! hi
            This fluff and feathers are very sensitive. Relatively lightweight steel core bullets
            - require some correction for the wind .. at large distances. A tungsten bullet requires correction only with a crosswind of more than 5m \ s.
            ------------------
            Now a few words about a certain verboo.

            And what just did not write! lol
            "coefficients", .. normalized ..
            lol Is a bullet with gyroscopic power normalized? On xnumx mm iron? lol
            -----------
            Sad When will this damned USE be canceled?
            1. verboo
              verboo 5 June 2016 23: 33
              -2
              Quote: ammunition
              Is a bullet with gyroscopic power normalized? On xnumx mm iron?

              Yes, here are a few more recommended terms for studying and topics:
              1. "Biting a shell (bullet) on the armor." Just in case, I'll clarify, this is not the kind of bite that happens after a stopar.
              2. "Bullet (projectile) transverse load".
              3. "Why is the thickness of the armor often considered in the calibers of the penetrating projectile (bullet)."
              Well, I think for starters you have enough new information.
              Quote: ammunition
              Sad When will this damned USE be canceled?

              Can't hand it over? My condolences to you.
              Here is a typical case of chasing two birds with one stone, and you cannot pass the exam, and in the shooter (I'm afraid to even use special terms like "external ballistics" and "armor penetration"), no boom-boom.
            2. Maxim73
              Maxim73 15 June 2016 12: 32
              0
              I agree - somehow I went crazy :)
          2. goose
            goose 6 June 2016 10: 17
            +1
            Quote: Maxim73
            The speed of the projectile does not matter.

            It does not matter for the force, it does matter how long it takes and directly determines the displacement, along with the wind force and the effective lateral area of ​​the projectile.
        4. Nekarmadlen
          Nekarmadlen 5 June 2016 23: 02
          0
          It seems that this is about the SC-154 cartridge, see photo of special cartridges for sniper weapons, in the comment of Alexander -72
        5. Svidetel 45
          Svidetel 45 6 June 2016 00: 05
          +6
          When shooting at such distances, at 2000 meters, corrections must be made for any wind, even less than 5 meters per second. And I can’t believe that a 6,5 mm bullet shot is comparable in value to a gun shot, even if it is made of gold, there were most likely some other reasons for not adopting this system.
          1. goose
            goose 6 June 2016 10: 22
            +1
            Quote: Svidetel 45
            And I can’t believe that a 6,5 mm bullet shot is comparable in value to a gun shot, even if it is made of gold

            The unique technology is not massive, it automatically gives an extra charge at times and because of scale.
            Technical gold is actually worth little, and tungsten is a lot.
            Tungsten metalworking and a melting point of 3000 degrees mean completely different equipment and a short resource.
            1. Stas157
              Stas157 7 June 2016 08: 21
              +2
              Quote: goose
              Technical gold is actually worth little, and tungsten is a lot.

              Depleted uranium, which is used by Americans in 30 mm aircraft guns, generally costs nothing. They sold it to us all at a dollar per kg. True, he is a little fonit, but this does not stop the Americans.
        6. goose
          goose 6 June 2016 09: 49
          +3
          Quote: ammunition
          You see, it's expensive.

          So let them do it from uranium. It has physical and mechanical properties, like ordinary steel, it is much easier to process it with tungsten, and the bullet will turn out a little harder.
          1. Viktor77
            Viktor77 23 October 2016 11: 02
            0
            In fact, a bullet made of tungsten will be a little heavier with an equal volume.
        7. brn521
          brn521 6 June 2016 16: 43
          +2
          Quote: ammunition
          Bullet weight - 32 gr. Caliber - 6,5 mm.

          Quote: ammunition
          coupled with a very large initial velocity of the bullet - 1250 m \ s

          0,032 * 1250 * 1250/2 = 25000J. The PTRD and KPV have about 30000J. Those. massive and dimensional unit, comparable with PTRD. This is an anti-tank gun with a calculation of 2 people.
          Quote: ammunition
          one shot from such a rifle .. came out at a cost like a shot from a D-30 howitzer

          1. The high initial velocity of the bullet implies accelerated barrel wear - powder gases quickly destroy rifling. Especially in the initial section.
          2. A soft shell or leading fields under such a load will deform and reduce accuracy. And without them, a solid bullet will again quickly wear out the barrel.
          3. At the same time, high-precision shooting at long distances requires a very high-quality barrel that does not accept wear in principle. Because of this, current models, on the contrary, have an increased caliber.
          Conclusion. The trunks will have to be changed often, due to which the high cost of a shot.
          Well, why do we need it? Domestic flimsy APCs from a long distance to board a hole?
          Quote: ammunition
          A bullet of small caliber and heavy weight very slightly loses speed in the air in the first 3 (three) kilometers of flight.

          Slightly - how much? Air resistance increases in proportion to the square of the speed. 7 times more stored energy. 3 times more air resistance - 3 times faster this energy is consumed.
          Quote: ammunition
          However feel project hacked off .. And forgot forever

          For such tasks, they usually use ATGMs. Expensive, but reliable and efficient. The calculation is also 2 people.
          Quote: ammunition
          In our product, the full promotion of the bullet occurred on the first 800 millimeters of the barrel.
          Fortunately - the length of the barrel allowed. The next 200 mm of the barrel had a transition cut. And the last 200 mm of the barrel, the bullet passed without any rifling pressure.

          It is completely incomprehensible why the last 200 mm smooth trunk. Without obturation, powder gases will begin to create all kinds of disgraces, knocking a bullet from the direction.
          1. ammunition
            ammunition 6 June 2016 19: 36
            +1
            Quote: brn521
            It is completely incomprehensible why the last 200 mm smooth trunk. Without obturation, powder gases will begin to create all kinds of disgraces, knocking a bullet from the direction.


            In no case!
            I never said that there were no rifling! There are grooves all over the trunk!
            But!
            On the last 200 millimeters, the grooves are made in such a way that they (grooves) no longer unwind the bullet. Do not give the pool any twisting acceleration. Not positive. No negative.
            -------------
            I’ll try to explain again why this was done.
            If you spin an ordinary children's Yula, spin it strongly .. but evenly. Then it will rotate smoothly. Like a gyroscope. But .. If you lightly hit such a whirligig on the handle, then it will "play" further. Will spin with precession. Yula's handle will describe circles.
            So the bullets, in all rifled guns, receive a small push from the rifling along the shank of the bullet when the bullet leaves the barrel.
            So here. In order to get rid of this .. the last push on the tail of the bullet, and had (in the last section) to make rifling in the form of a stretching spiral. To rifling NO Do not press on the bullet in the direction of all tangents to the circumference of the bullet. That is - they did not unwind the bullet in the last section.
            ------------
            Regarding barrel wear .. With a monolithic tungsten pool.
            Copper is too hard. Belts (like shells) had a bad effect on bullet stabilization. The way out is a silver bullet coating. sad 0,25 mm thick.
            1. verboo
              verboo 6 June 2016 20: 04
              +5
              Quote: ammunition
              On the last 200 millimeters, the grooves are made in such a way that they (grooves) no longer unwind the bullet. Do not give the pool any twisting acceleration. Not positive. No negative.

              Quote: ammunition
              In order to get rid of this .. the last push on the tail of the bullet, and had (in the last section) to make rifling in the form of a stretching spiral. So that the grooves did not press on the bullet in the direction of all tangents to the circumference of the bullet. That is - they did not unwind the bullet in the last section.

              I have seen many different dreamers in my life. But you are special. Not only did you (you personally) come up with some supposedly forgotten rifle (obviously of your "design"), but also tell us tales about its supposedly device. I just have a goiter in a goiter from your ignorance in the field of internal ballistics. Starting from the "revelation" that "the bullet receives a push", although the bullet does not receive any push, the pressure grows evenly, although at first it is like an avalanche. And ending with the opus that "the last 200 mm bullet does not accelerate and does not slow down." And what will keep the speed of her movement, the holy spirit? Have you ever heard about the force of friction? This force must be overcome at the expense of something, and it can be overcome only due to the pressure of the powder gases. Even without accelerating. Therefore, your bullet will receive your invented "push" in any way.
              Anyway, can you imagine a bullet caliber 6,5-mm and weight 32 g? This is not a bullet, this is a mini arrow. And to disperse such a mini-arrow to 1250 m / s, you need a lot of gunpowder. Which will allocate a lot of gas and create its wild pressure. And in order to relieve the pressure of this gas to the expansion speed of 1250 m / s, it’s not enough that 1000 (800 + 200) mm is not enough, but at times more (too lazy to consider, and it is not easy to take it).
              In a word, stop powdering people's brains. Especially with his illiterate research in the field of internal ballistics. By God, there is no power to read.
              1. Stas157
                Stas157 7 June 2016 08: 55
                +1
                Quote: verboo
                Anyway, can you imagine a bullet with a caliber of 6,5 mm and a weight of 32 g? This is not a bullet, this is a mini arrow.

                I can, if you take into account that the bullet will be of metal 3 times heavier than usual. A mini-arrow is already your invention!
                1. overb
                  overb 7 June 2016 15: 17
                  +2
                  Quote: Stas157
                  I can, if you take into account that the bullet will be of metal 3 times heavier than usual. A mini-arrow is already your invention!

                  I completely agree with you. If you call me metal, 3 times heavier than lead.
                  On Earth, this is not, will you mine in space? Even platinum is less than 2 times heavier than lead. And do not forget the soft shell, in any case, it will weigh about the same.
                  So, you are the inventor. Yes, and with chemistry you do not really.
                  1. yehat
                    yehat 7 June 2016 15: 28
                    -2
                    about fiction you would not be in a hurry
                    If you learned the periodic table, was life successful?
                    There are heavier isotopes of known elements.
                    I understand that it’s expensive and rare, but you can find 3 times heavier lead.
                    when you argue, do not leave the truth
                    1. overb
                      overb 7 June 2016 16: 15
                      +1
                      Quote: yehat
                      I understand that it’s expensive and rare, but you can find 3 times heavier lead.

                      What for? Why for bullets to find something expensive and rare? Yes, and just expensive and rare will not work, you need super expensive and super rare. If it still exists on this planet in principle.
                      Quote: yehat
                      when you argue, do not leave the truth

                      Who are you writing to?
                2. Viktor77
                  Viktor77 23 October 2016 11: 11
                  0
                  A bullet of tungsten with a caliber of 6.5 mm will be about 50 mm long.
            2. brn521
              brn521 7 June 2016 13: 17
              +1
              Quote: ammunition
              If you lightly hit such a whirligig on the handle, then it will "play" further. Will spin with precession.

              Precession is a non-inertial motion. When the external influence is removed, the precession stops. In this case, the whirligig must be released into free fall, depriving the support reaction force. And she must immediately stop precessing. This is the basis of the principle due to which bullets and projectiles turn their nose to the trajectory. For this, they are under-twisted so that they can turn their nose to the trajectory due to a small but sufficient precession when the oncoming air flow vector changes. As soon as the bullet during precession crosses the nose with the trajectory, the overturning moment disappears, the precession stops. And it seems that this is why the distance becomes so important, at which the speed of the bullet falls below the sound one. Air resistance is sharply reduced, the force of which can no longer cope with the creation of sufficient precession and thus turning the bullet's nose towards the trajectory. In this case, the trajectory in this section is already steep, the bullet eventually begins to fly sideways. By the way, the subject, i.e. "Exhaust", there shouldn't be such a problem, because of the subsonic initial speed. The bullet will not fly sideways in the far section even if the barrel is raised at 30 degrees to the horizon, which is inaccessible for normal rifles.
              Based on the foregoing, I can assume that we are talking about precession in the initial part of the trajectory, when the bullet overtakes its powder gases asymmetrically flow around it. Due to the fact that it was turned on a low-quality cut of the trunk. But it is believed that there is no reason to fence the garden with a change in the pitch of the rifling, it is enough to make the cut as perfectly perfectly as possible so that the rifling releases the bullet at the same time and symmetrically. The tip itself is also done in different ways - it is cut flat, made cones or steps (a chamfer to cover this area about debris and damage) - there is not much difference. The main thing is to maintain symmetry. Yes, in the benchrest they also experiment with changing the cutting step, but there it seems like the opposite, at the beginning they take a long step, then shorten it. Say, from 15 inches to 14. To the bullet at the initial stage spun evenly, without a sharp blow. Again, according to 2008, the difference is vanishingly small. There are examples of trunks that, on the contrary, end in parallel rifling, while leading in the benchrest? I don’t know such people. On the contrary, there is a suspicion that attempts to make uneven cuts increase the chance of spoiling the workpiece when cutting - the homogeneity of the material is very important. However, I am not a specialist and not a fan.
              But in the light of existing knowledge, the design you described looks somewhat strange and excessively complicated and expensive.
              1. brn521
                brn521 7 June 2016 13: 45
                +1
                Quote: brn521
                There are examples of trunks that, on the contrary, end in parallel rifling

                Misspelled. Not parallel, but with a calculated step consistent with the steady speed of the bullet. However, there is a suspicion that it will be equal to or close to the pitch of the main rifling. Nevertheless, the rotation speed seems to be calculated as a result based on the pitch of the rifling and the initial speed. I think that’s why the bench design did not even consider such a design. Everything is different there, the same weight of gunpowder, bullets. For a specific barrel and for a specific shot. Therefore, it is impossible to guess how the bullet will rotate in the final section of the barrel and fit the rifling under it. Thus, I repeat, there are factors affecting the accuracy of a shot much stronger. And they are struggling with the aforementioned problem due to the quality of muzzle cutting.
              2. ammunition
                ammunition 7 June 2016 16: 59
                0
                Quote: brn521
                Precession is a non-inertial movement. When the external influence is removed, the precession stops. In this case, the yule must be released into free fall, depriving the reaction forces of support. And she immediately must stop precessing.


                Here you are mistaken. Any moment of motion has inertia. If you let Yula go into free fall, then not only the yula handle, but also the lower tip, devoid of fixation on the support, will begin to describe the circles. Only circles of a smaller radius. This is easy for you to verify by experiment. Unwind and toss. The precession will remain.

                Quote: brn521
                The principle is based on this, thanks to which bullets and shells are turned with their nose to the trajectory. For the sake of this, they are not twisted so that they can turn their nose to the trajectory due to the small but sufficient precession when the vector of the incoming air flow changes.


                What you mentioned here, in our case negligible little, vanishingly little. This is generally "from another opera".

                Quote: brn521
                By the way, the subject, i.e. "Exhaust", there shouldn't be such a problem, because of the subsonic initial speed.


                I think the Exhaust rifle is very good at shooting at 150 - 300 meters. For example, during police operations in the city. And her bullet is very lethal.
                ---------
                I mentioned .. about a forgotten idea Army super long-range rifle. Which has the most working distances - 2000 meters. sad Which has such a high accuracy of the battle that targeted fire can be fired up to a distance of 3000 m (three kilometers).
                I'm not going to insist that the Army needs such a rifle.

                Quote: brn521
                But it is believed that there is no reason to fence the garden with a change in the pitch of the rifling, it is enough to make the cut as perfectly perfectly as possible so that the rifling releases the bullet at the same time and symmetrically.


                Perfect symmetry is impossible to achieve. And most importantly - this does not eliminate the elastic twisting of the bullet itself. And for the occurrence physical precession does not need much.
                And when the pitch of the rifling coincides with the speed of rotation of the bullet, then the problem is removed in principle.
                Quote: brn521
                but there it seems like the other way around, at the beginning they take a long step, then they shorten it.


                Well, it's simple. They achieve uniform acceleration of the promotion of the bullet. Where (a) = const ? meaning spin acceleration.
                It’s clear here. In the beginning, the powder gases press more strongly than when the bullet is at the exit of the barrel. So at the beginning they make more gentle cuts so that the promotion is uniform.
                Also .. of course - a way. sad But our method is more effective laughing,
                ,
                1. brn521
                  brn521 8 June 2016 16: 59
                  +1
                  Quote: ammunition
                  I am a physicist .. and a mathematician

                  Then about the precession you have a somewhat strange idea. Precession is the rotation of the axis of rotation under the action of an external force. The cessation of an external force automatically means the cessation of
                  precession. According to the physical meaning, formulas and experiments.
                  For example, a video. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vINM7GooEVc
                  We hang the load on the edge of the gyroscope mounting rim - its axis rotates. We remove the load - the axis immediately stops in a new position.
                  Quote: ammunition
                  If you let Yula go into free fall, then not only the yula handle, but also the lower tip, devoid of fixation on the support, will begin to describe the circles. Only circles of a smaller radius. This is easy for you to verify by experiment.

                  As an illustration, again, a video from YouTube. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=80fNo_3-5ws Zero gravity gyroscope. The "breathing" top precesses under the action of gravity, which creates a moment about the pivot point. We remove the support (the resulting weightlessness) - the moment of force immediately disappears, the precession immediately stops. In the case of a bullet, our precession will be caused by the fact that the point of application of air resistance will be located away from the center of gravity - a shoulder of nonzero dimensions is formed and, accordingly, a moment of air resistance occurs, which tends to turn the bullet. If the speed of rotation of the bullet is selected in the required (rather wide) range, then the bullet will follow the trajectory with its nose.
                  Quote: ammunition
                  What you have mentioned here is negligible in our case. Vanishingly small.

                  This is just an illustration that the atmosphere influences the orientation of a normal bullet much more than theoretical irregularities on the cut of a well-made barrel. Including long range heavy sniper bullets. Suppose the aforementioned rifle fired with completely natural "nails", then there perhaps and the truth could get out the jamb with an excessive influence of the muzzle finish. Long, which means stabilization is in any way not at height, plus a large surface of the lateral projection. Plus a seriously enhanced powder charge with a large volume of gases. And as a result, those factors that are not taken into account in normal shooting practice, this bullet almost tumbles. In the absence of discernible barrel defects, a normal bullet will practically not go astray. A "nail" with the same defects will first twist a couple of degrees, and then displace it with a flow of powder gases in an indefinite direction. Ordinary bullets, even long ones, do not seem to care about this effect - on a sunny day it will fly over a puddle or asphalt road - and it will deviate more. This is all speculation, of course.
                  Quote: ammunition
                  I think the Exhaust rifle is very good at shooting at 150 - 300 meters.

                  I think in calm weather it is quite possible to shoot at landmarks and at a greater distance, including the indicated 800 meters. The only question is accuracy. Well, yes, I almost forgot. with a steep path over a long distance, vertical aiming will become very critical. A microscopic error - and the bullet will go much higher or lower. The effect will be manifested much stronger than conventional rifles, which still cannot work normally on this section of the trajectory.
                  1. ammunition
                    ammunition 13 June 2016 23: 07
                    +1
                    Quote: brn521
                    Then about the precession you have a somewhat strange idea. Precession is the rotation of the axis of rotation under the action of an external force. The cessation of an external force automatically means the cessation of
                    precession. According to the physical meaning, formulas and experiments.
                    For example, a video. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vINM7GooEVc


                    Thank you for the detailed comment.
                    I was wrong. He blurted out without thinking. To his shame. Excuse me.
                    ---------
                    There is of course an external force. Atmosphere presses on a bullet in flight with a force of the order of 1 (one) kilogram. A little less - a little more.
                    ------------
                    And the rifle ... never was in the metal. Only in calculations. "Flew", "punched" - everything in the calculations .. and for a long time .. 35 years.
                    Well, who would allow to do such an expensive and complicated thing? From calculations to the finished product - a long and difficult road.
                    --------------
                    But the idea itself was to get the range of an artillery shell in a pool, coupled with the advantages of ultra-high speed bullets ... It was very tempting. Was ..
                    ---------
                    What now - what was .. forgotten and the past overgrown.
                    ----------
                    Thank you for the answers. I’ll go .. I’ll give you a few pluses. -))
                    1. brn521
                      brn521 14 June 2016 13: 50
                      0
                      Quote: ammunition
                      I was wrong. He blurted out without thinking. To his shame. Excuse me.

                      Yes, everyone is mistaken, do not worry so much. Internet - to relax, learn something new, have fun. If you unnecessarily reflect, this is not rest, not knowledge, but a waste of time. Errors are found even in school and university textbooks.
                      Quote: ammunition
                      But the idea itself was to get the range of an artillery shell in a pool, coupled with the advantages of ultra-high speed bullets ... It was very tempting. Was ..

                      Well, the railgun was never invented. A sniper's dream, in the absence of an effective "beam format" energy weapon. The last thing that came across from forum theories was that they tried to create a plasma channel in advance, so that the bullet could fly easier and something like a stabilization effect was created. I will not say specifically - the sections of physics are unknown to me, but judging by the search engine, the topic has clearly died out, now I have not found anything.
                  2. verboo
                    verboo 13 June 2016 23: 15
                    0
                    Quote: brn521
                    For example, a video. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vINM7GooEVc

                    It would be nice for a dude to learn Russian. His "Axes of symmetry" is super.
              3. ammunition
                ammunition 7 June 2016 17: 00
                -2
                Continuation: -

                You know. The first time I hear the word is "benchrest". So ... I'm a physicist ... and a mathematician.
                And the idea of ​​an ultra-long-range rifle that I mentioned is a very old episode.
                Well, there was .. and the buffoon with him.
                I was already very tired of some comments, where my own words are specially misinterpreted. And where they pretend that they do not understand simple things. I’m not at your address. Thank you for the substantive questions.
                1. brn521
                  brn521 8 June 2016 17: 06
                  +2
                  Quote: ammunition
                  You know. First time I hear the word - "benchrest"

                  Sports shooting from the machine with a series of shots over short distances. As a result, a very high impact on the result from the internal ballistics. The front line of research on the same trunks. Several companies issuing small batches of specialized trunks of the highest possible quality. And they didn’t seem to see the indicated barrel format, despite the availability of technical capabilities and motivation.
                  Quote: ammunition
                  I mentioned .. about the forgotten idea of ​​the Army ultra-long-range rifle.
                  Benchresters will not forget this, but only if there is a real practical effect.
                  Quote: ammunition
                  Perfect symmetry is impossible to achieve.

                  It is not needed, because to use it you will need the perfect cartridge (for real cartridges the same initial speed walks by itself) and ideal external conditions (even changing the barrel temperature from shot to shot affects the result and is taken into account). Both are unattainable. There are many significant factors that benchrestrers are forced to take into account purely empirically, affecting the results of the competition. For example, cartridges from cartridges that gave a successful series of shots are collected and reused 2-3 more times. And here is just a cut. It would have long been remembered or rediscovered.
            3. CTABEP
              CTABEP 9 June 2016 19: 42
              0
              Can I have any proofs about this wonderful invention? And so far I personally see an unstoppable fantasy flight on a free theme.
          2. ammunition
            ammunition 6 June 2016 22: 16
            0
            Quote: verboo
            Starting from the "revelation" that "the bullet receives a push", although the bullet does not receive any push, the pressure grows evenly, although at first it is like an avalanche. And ending with the opus that "the last 200 mm bullet does not accelerate and does not slow down." And what will keep the speed of her movement, the holy spirit? Have you ever heard of the force of friction? This force must be overcome at the expense of something, and it can be overcome only due to the pressure of the powder gases. Even without accelerating. Therefore, your bullet will receive your invented "push" in any way.
            Anyway, can you imagine a bullet caliber 6,5-mm and weight 32 g? This is not a bullet, this is a mini arrow. And to disperse such a mini-arrow to 1250 m / s, you need a lot of gunpowder. Which will allocate a lot of gas and create its wild pressure. And in order to relieve the pressure of this gas to the expansion speed of 1250 m / s, it’s not enough that 1000 (800 + 200) mm is not enough, but at times more (too lazy to consider, and it is not easy to take it).


            sad
            In rifled weapons (as opposed to smooth-bore), the bullet not only accelerates in the barrel, under the pressure of powder gases.
            But! In rifled weapons, the bullet also spins in the barrel. Up to 60 000 - 100 000 revolutions per minute. (Up to one hundred thousand! Karl).
            This rotation of the bullet gives FORCE pressure rifling barrel.
            ----------
            I’m talking about the component of the rifling pressure vector that is perpendicular to the axis of the barrel and coincides with the tangent hole of the barrel .. sad
            --------
            Well, well .. what a dumb student came across! crying
            ------------
            But, let's move on ... Since the bullet accelerates (has acceleration) along the entire length of the barrel, so are the rifling PRESS on a bullet throughout the barrel. Press - in the sense of applying force to increase the speed of rotation of the bullet.
            Further. When the bullet leaves the barrel, the front of the bullet exits the barrel .. and is relieved of the pressure of the barrel rifling. (especially for you! I repeat for the fourth time, we are talking only about untwisting pressure).
            And the shank of the bullet more continues to experience the power of untwisting pressure.
            This is the effect I called "the last push" .. It seemed to me that everything is clear - like two and two. sad
            So here. When the whole bullet is already free from rifling, and the shank of the bullet itself is still experiencing untwisting force, this then destabilizes the bullet in flight. The bullet precesses, and sweeps a larger channel in the air than it has its own caliber. And this increases the air resistance for the precessing bullet.
            ------------
            It is from such a bad effect that the cuts (on the last 200 mm) that are arranged in the form of an elongating spiral and which do not affect the bullet are freed .. for the subject of rotation of the bullet.
            --------------
            Ufff! sad
            -----------
            ,
            1. ammunition
              ammunition 6 June 2016 22: 18
              0
              And continued
              Regarding speed ..
              That's right you noticed. There is a lot of gunpowder. But! Not as much as you might think.
              In AK74, a smaller caliber bullet accelerates to 900 m / s in the barrel in 372 mm.
              Well, I see, because it is light. But! We have a trunk that is almost three and a half times longer! 1200 mm. And the caliber .. at least a little, but more. As a result, gunpowder requires approximately 3,7 times more than in the 5.45x39 cartridge.
              1. overb
                overb 7 June 2016 14: 45
                +2
                Quote: ammunition
                We have a trunk that is almost three and a half times longer! 1200 mm.

                You still decide. Then you write that the last 200 mm do not accelerate the bullet gases. Then write, 1200 mm. But if you do not disperse, then it is already 1000 mm.
                Quote: ammunition
                And the caliber .. at least a little, but more.

                Those. trunk volume is greater, i.e. gases (and gunpowder) need more.
                Quote: ammunition
                As a result, gunpowder requires approximately 3,7 times more than in the 5.45x39 cartridge.

                I do not want to take this, laziness. And I won’t say it offhand, it’s painful for your fantasy bullet.
                But it's not about the volume of gunpowder, but about the pressure. I repeat once again, the final "push" that you are striving for can be avoided. But absolutely not in the way that you write about. If the speed is maintained at the last 200 mm, the expanding powder gases will still affect the bullet.
            2. brn521
              brn521 7 June 2016 13: 58
              0
              Quote: ammunition
              So here. When the entire bullet is already free from rifling, and the shank of the bullet itself is still experiencing untwisting force, this then destabilizes the bullet in flight.

              The untwisting force does not destabilize, because it is applied symmetrically. Another thing is that the errors in the cut for a long bullet will be more critical. But then again, it is not known how much. In benchrest, this moment does not seem to be taken care of at all. Although they could, for example, reduce the depth of cut by grinding the rifling fields by some fractions of a millimeter.
            3. overb
              overb 7 June 2016 15: 06
              +2
              Quote: ammunition
              But! In rifled weapons, the bullet also spins in the barrel.

              You just decided to lay out everything that you know about the shooting in one block?
              Quote: ammunition
              I’m talking about the component of the rifling pressure vector that is perpendicular to the axis of the barrel and coincides with the tangent hole of the barrel ..

              There is no such perpendicular component. Nothing makes the bullet expand. The trouble is with you, however.
              Quote: ammunition
              what a dumb student got!

              Yes, yes, you teach me, if you can.
              Quote: ammunition
              Since the bullet accelerates (has acceleration) throughout the barrel

              A little higher, you argued exactly the opposite. Your last 200 mm bullet did not accelerate.
              Quote: ammunition
              Press - in the sense of applying force to increase the speed of rotation of the bullet.

              This is if the pressure rises. but it grows just in the initial phase. And then, oddly enough, it falls. Apart from the pistols, everything is different there.
              Quote: ammunition
              (especially for you! I repeat for the fourth time, we are talking only about untwisting pressure).

              And what else is pushing, pushing, pushing, and even pushing?
              Quote: ammunition
              I called this effect the "last push"

              Yeah. Now this one, "unwinding". Do you even understand what the hell you are talking about?
              Quote: ammunition
              and the very shank of the bullet is still experiencing untwisting force

              So the "very shank" of high-speed bullets just does not experience anything. Because it is usually made conical. To avoid bottom drag. Have you heard of this?
              Quote: ammunition
              this is what destabilizes a bullet in flight.

              Do not think that at this moment I laughed merrily.
              Quote: ammunition
              The bullet precesses, and sweeps a larger channel in the air than it has its own caliber.

              You would only know how many of these forces are there. One precession with nutation is not enough.
              Quote: ammunition
              It is from such a bad effect that the cuts (on the last 200 mm) that are arranged in the form of an elongating spiral and which do not affect the bullet are freed .. for the subject of rotation of the bullet.

              Enchanting. It’s not easy to find more nonsense on the net.
              Excuse me, but I highly recommend that you first try to understand the basics of internal ballistics, and then "remember the rejected rifles."
        8. Razvedka_Boem
          Razvedka_Boem 11 June 2016 18: 10
          0
          Please specify the model of the rifle and the name of the designer.
          1. Razvedka_Boem
            Razvedka_Boem 12 June 2016 17: 22
            0
            Ammunition (1) RU June 5, 2016 16:28 ↑
            Quote: Blondy
            And what do competent people think about this?

            sad
            A long time ago (more than 30 years ago), the competent developed an ultra-long-range, small-caliber rifle, with a heavy tungsten bullet.
            Bullet weight - 32 gr. Caliber - 6,5 mm.

            They didn’t answer me there ..
            "A long time ago, in a distant galaxy ... Sofa wars raged!"
      5. iConst
        iConst 5 June 2016 17: 00
        +4
        Quote: Blondy
        ... offer you a link to this Lobayev model (link)
        http://lobaev.com/not...

        And what do competent people think about this?

        I am not a competent person, but following the link and starting to read ....

        Style of presentation of information (and the name is Black Ops): cheapness at the level of teenage computer shooters - who is it for?

        Normal manufacturers do not obscure, but compare various products. And there it is cheap obsseraniye all in a row.

        It turns out KB with almost centuries-old (and sometimes centuries-old) traditions - suckers do not understand anything in arms and only Lobaev with straight arms.

        I don’t know how the product is according to its characteristics, but the advertisement directly stinks.
        1. Blondy
          Blondy 5 June 2016 19: 09
          +1
          Yes, God bless him with the name and obseranie, I do not understand why they usually position a long-range rifle with a muzzle velocity of .338 900 m / s as a silent competitor. They have a "saboteur-whisper" .40LW with PBS, but there is the same usual muzzle 315 m / s and up to 600 m. Of course 0.5 MOA is not 1 MOA, but 10.2 is not 12.7 (although it is also nothing) and for such price ...
          1. iConst
            iConst 5 June 2016 19: 58
            +2
            Quote: Blondy
            Yes, God bless him with the name and obseranie, I do not understand why they usually position a long-range rifle with a muzzle velocity of .338 900 m / s as a silent competitor. They have a "saboteur-whisper" .40LW with PBS, but there is the same usual muzzle 315 m / s and up to 600 m. Of course 0.5 MOA is not 1 MOA, but 10.2 is not 12.7 (although it is also nothing) and for such price ...

            Well, that's exactly what I was surprised about comparing purple with perpendicular.

            It seems that they have taken measures to reduce the visibility of the flame and sound, judging by the presence of the barrel casing.

            The question remains regarding the reliability of these very MOA in real stressful conditions, and not "arrived in a jeep in a tuxedo, fired, straightened a bow tie and left for a country cottage to slowly clean a rifle under a glass of whiskey ...".
      6. Alex_T
        Alex_T 5 June 2016 19: 48
        +2
        The sound of a shot consists of a shock wave of propellant gases flying out and a sonic boom from the supersonic flight of a bullet. To combat sound in the Exhaust, the bullet speed is lower than the speed of sound (heavy bullet is less than gunpowder) and the exhaust volume (muffler), in the TSVL-8 BLACK-OPS rifle the bullet is still supersonic, only the exhaust volume is suppressed. Ie "Exhaust" is quieter than "TSVL-8 BLACK-OPS", but due to low bullet velocity, the aiming range of "Exhaust" is less than Lobaev's rifle. In the video, the sound of a shot from the TSVL-8 BLACK-OPS is underestimated, in real life the flight of a supersonic bullet is much louder.
      7. fennekRUS
        fennekRUS 5 June 2016 20: 58
        +2
        900 capes - what kind of "noiselessness" are we talking about? 338lm is an excellent cartridge, and ours took it into service (riveted in Novosibirsk, it seems, on imported bullets) But it doesn't smell of noiselessness, and the Lobaevka's length is considerable. Different niches for ammunition, and, accordingly, for rifles.
        1. goose
          goose 6 June 2016 10: 28
          +1
          Look, a sniper should shoot about 4 thousand shots from his barrel per season. Not only is not the cheapest imported cartridge used for Lobayev rifles, but you still have to change the barrel twice, and each costs about 40 thousand dollars. As a result, the preparation of an ordinary sniper for the season alone in terms of weapons will be about 100 thousand dollars. The total cost of training, which must be carried out constantly, every year, will become comparable to the cost of high-quality training of a helicopter pilot or pilot of VT aviation.
          Isn't it bold? For SV-98, this amount is 10 times less. With not the most severe drop in the capabilities of weapons.
          1. Razvedka_Boem
            Razvedka_Boem 12 June 2016 17: 18
            0
            For a sniper - not greasy.
      8. Asadullah
        Asadullah 5 June 2016 21: 02
        +3
        Lobaev model


        Gee, this is about serial weapons, Lobaev’s everything is very good and very expensive. The series is not good. And yet, non-serial weapons, you can make at many companies, according to your preferences and the specifics of the tasks. If you want something fabulously expensive, you need to go to Benelli, you want cheap and cheerful, well in AR-7. Lobanov from this series of non-serial. Mass production requires capacities, and there are enough good engineers working for salaries and bonuses.
      9. Stiletto_711
        Stiletto_711 6 June 2016 21: 10
        +1
        The Lobaev’s TSVL-8 rifle under the .338 Lapua Magnum cartridge - with an initial bullet speed of 900 m / s, cannot be positioned as silent, since a bullet flying at supersonic speed creates a shock wave, the sound of which can be heard at long range. As far as I know, LOBAEV-arms released the silent DVL-10 sniper rifle under the .40 Lobaev Whisper subsonic cartridge. So this rifle has a maximum effective range of 600 m.
    2. castle
      castle 6 June 2016 10: 24
      0
      Art is not in the rifle, but in man.
      Simo Häyhä did without "Exhaust"
    3. GSH-18
      GSH-18 6 June 2016 13: 08
      0
      Rifle "Exhaust": silent, large-caliber, our

      Recently about "Exhaust" a lot of information in the media. What can I say, an expressive fly swatter! good Respect to our weapons engineers, and good luck to our special forces, and so that everyone returns home alive and healthy! soldier
      1. psiho117
        psiho117 6 June 2016 14: 46
        0
        Quote: GSH-18
        Rifle "Exhaust": silent, large-caliber, our

        Recently about "Exhaust" a lot of information in the media. What can I say, an expressive fly swatter!


        That's it, that in the bad media - a lot. A sensible reviews from the pros - one-two and miscalculated. And the opinion of these same pros is not so enthusiastic.
        Rather, they feel a bewildering perplexity from this bandura.

        I recommend reading a detailed review of Exhaust in the Kalashnikov magazine, where they disassembled it, assembled it, and shot a bunch of them. The conclusions are hard-hitting.
  2. Sirocco
    Sirocco 5 June 2016 05: 51
    +7
    I hope the rifle will fulfill the tasks assigned to it not only by the FSB, but also in other special forces of the Armed Forces.
    Well, a little about the inconsistency of the article itself and the bottom photo))))
    Someone shooter in active headphones made to shoot?
    the “Exhaust” shot is so quiet that it more closely resembles a click of an air rifle. According to the subjective opinion of the author of the article, the sound of the VKS shot is even quieter than that of her colleagues - the special silent VSS “Vintorez” and VSK-94 rifles, but the caliber of these samples is 9 mm versus 12,7 mm for the “Exhaust”.

    It would be possible not to post this photo, but not to create a reason for the "fan tossing" I think this is a fighter for show off dressed in all that is.
    Well, for comparison, Vintorez, only the shutter clang is heard, here, with such a caliber, I did not test it))))) although the PBS is of impressive size. But at what speed does the bullet go in these weapons? I did not understand.
    1. La-5
      La-5 5 June 2016 06: 13
      +9
      Quote: Sirocco
      I hope the rifle will fulfill the tasks assigned to it not only by the FSB, but also in other special forces of the Armed Forces.
      Well, a little about the inconsistency of the article itself and the bottom photo))))
      Someone shooter in active headphones made to shoot?
      the “Exhaust” shot is so quiet that it more closely resembles a click of an air rifle. According to the subjective opinion of the author of the article, the sound of the VKS shot is even quieter than that of her colleagues - the special silent VSS “Vintorez” and VSK-94 rifles, but the caliber of these samples is 9 mm versus 12,7 mm for the “Exhaust”.

      It would be possible not to post this photo, but not to create a reason for the "fan tossing" I think this is a fighter for show off dressed in all that is.
      Well, for comparison, Vintorez, only the shutter clang is heard, here, with such a caliber, I did not test it))))) although the PBS is of impressive size. But at what speed does the bullet go in these weapons? I did not understand.

      About 300m / s, since the bullets have different masses, the speed can vary, but not more than the speed of sound.
      1. ammunition
        ammunition 5 June 2016 17: 49
        +2
        Quote: La-5
        but not more than the speed of sound.


        You are right. sad
        Here Aleksandr72 (just below his comment), posted the data.
        Muzzle velocity: .. 290 m / s.
        --------------
        These competitors will soon offer us two-pound butt coolers. crying
        With an initial bullet speed of 170 m / s. repeat
    2. Bayonet
      Bayonet 5 June 2016 06: 24
      +10
      Quote: Sirocco
      Someone shooter in active headphones made to shoot?

      Listening to music smile
      1. Sirocco
        Sirocco 5 June 2016 06: 36
        +14
        Quote: Bayonet
        Listening to music

        Most likely, this is a shot sound booster. lol
        1. Fidget
          Fidget 5 June 2016 10: 49
          +8
          did you notice a microphone coming down from the shooter's left ear? this is a headset from a walkie-talkie and that's it ...
      2. cap
        cap 5 June 2016 06: 38
        +13
        Quote: Bayonet
        Quote: Sirocco
        Someone shooter in active headphones made to shoot?

        Listening to music smile


        Headphones in a set, so as not to injure the ear with the cry of the victim falling from 100 meters. laughing

        In addition to the armored plates, such a cartridge can easily penetrate a wooden wall or brickwork up to 10 cm thick. There is no doubt - wherever the bullet of the SC-130 cartridge hits, her sacrifice is almost doomed: a dynamic blow to any part of the body with such a caliber is certain death, and in case of falling into a limb, its separation is guaranteed and severe blood loss. By the way, the store "Exhaust" fits five of these deadly cartridges.

        Well done Tula masters good
      3. edge
        edge 5 June 2016 10: 53
        +4
        Quote: Bayonet
        Someone shooter in active headphones made to shoot?

        the headphones are active - they cut off dangerous noises and at the same time raise a weak background. But in general, it protects the hearing - he will be
        Serve the motherland
    3. Aleksandr72
      Aleksandr72 5 June 2016 07: 54
      +16
      The performance characteristics of a special large-caliber silent sniper rifle 6C8 VKS / VSSK "Exhaust":
      Cartridge................................................. ....... 12,7x54 mm SC-130
      Weight without an optical sight and cartridges .................. 6,3 kg
      Length in combat position ......................................... 795 mm
      Length in the stowed position ..................................... 640 mm
      Muzzle velocity ............................................ 290 m / with
      Combat rate of fire ............................. 30/60 rds / min
      Sighting range ................................................ ... 600 m
      The capacity of the store ................................................ .... 5 rounds
      There are several options for 12,7 mm sniper rifle ammunition
      - sniper SC-130 PT increased accuracy with shell bullet, similar to the bullet cartridge 12,7 CH;
      - sniper SC-130 PT2 of increased accuracy with a solid (one-component) bronze bullet;
      - sniper SC-130 VPS with high penetration ability - with an armor-piercing bullet with a heat-strengthened core protruding from the shell.
      - training SC-130 PU, designed for training in loading techniques and verification of the mechanisms of weapons.
      And this is a photo of Russian special cartridges for sniper weapons, among them for "Exhaust":
      1. edge
        edge 5 June 2016 10: 57
        +5
        Quote: Aleksandr72
        photos of Russian special cartridges for sniper weapons, including for "Exhaust":

        reconnaissance groups not only work against living targets, it is necessary to destroy communication objects, electronic warfare, software, equipment ..... etc.
    4. AndreyS
      AndreyS 5 June 2016 09: 51
      +4
      Quote: Sirocco
      But at what speed does the bullet go in these weapons? I didn’t understand

      I can answer your question. The speed of the bullet ammunition PT -290-295 m / s, and the UPU - 315 m / s. By the way, the penetration of NIB (means of individual armor protection) is Grade 5-6 with an AMS cartridge at a distance of 200 m. And accuracy, it’s a sniper rifle - a deviation at a distance of 100 m (Pat. PT) is not more than 3 cm. This is according to the passport.
    5. Locksmith
      Locksmith 5 June 2016 09: 55
      +2
      Quote: Sirocco
      I think this is a fighter for show off dressed in all that is.

      Once I put on a mask that hides my face, maybe I put on headphones to hide my ears, encrypt so completely, although probably the balaclava covers my ears. repeat
  3. Shiva83483
    Shiva83483 5 June 2016 06: 19
    +6
    Vesch .... we can, when we want .... and for all this magnificence, many thanks to I.V. Stalin and L.P. Beria with their little habits and non-standard solutions to problems. At the exit, as mattress makers did then, and now we continue the glorious traditions of our ancestors ... Lepota and balm for the soul in the morning on weekends is worth a lot.
  4. Bayonet
    Bayonet 5 June 2016 06: 33
    +11
    "According to information in the media, in Tula, on the basis of this product and ammunition for it, another type of weapon is being developed - the assault machine ASH-12. However, the representatives of the weapons enterprise themselves do not confirm this information" - Strange, but what is this?
    ASH-12 is a Russian large-caliber assault machine, created at TsKIB SOO for the needs of the special forces of the FSB of Russia along with the BCC sniper rifle.
    Main characteristics

    Caliber: 12,7 × 55
    Weapon length: 1020 mm
    Barrel length: --- mm
    Weight unloaded: 6 kg.
    Rate of Shooting: 650 fps / min
    Store capacity: 20 cartridges
    (click photo.)
    1. verboo
      verboo 5 June 2016 19: 09
      -1
      Quote: Bayonet
      assault rifle

      Quote: Bayonet
      Caliber: 12,7 × 55

      You need to decide what it is. There can be no "assault rifles" on the 12,7 × 55 cartridge.
  5. Bayonet
    Bayonet 5 June 2016 06: 54
    +14
    The ASh-12 assault rifle, due to the 12,7x55 large-caliber cartridge used in it, provides a tremendous stopping effect during fire fighting in the city, at short and super short distances ...
  6. ovod84
    ovod84 5 June 2016 07: 02
    +1
    Well, an amusing thing, I learned a lot for myself.
  7. philosopher
    philosopher 5 June 2016 07: 13
    0
    Under such a cartridge - a machine gun - it would be understandable, but an automatic machine !? The recoil momentum is not too big?
    1. Bayonet
      Bayonet 5 June 2016 08: 21
      +4
      Quote: philosopher
      The recoil momentum is not too big?

      To reduce recoil, the ASH-12 is equipped with a two-chamber muzzle brake.
  8. Volga Cossack
    Volga Cossack 5 June 2016 07: 14
    +3
    I hope that he will enter the army special forces. The right thing. Thank you for the article!
  9. Earnest
    Earnest 5 June 2016 07: 47
    +5
    Quote: Sirocco
    ... Well, a little about the inconsistency of the article itself and the bottom photos ...

    I will also add "five cents" ...
    In addition to armored plates, such a cartridge can easily penetrate a wooden wall or brickwork up to 10 cm thick.

    Ah, how good it is, the wall is 10 cm through and through ... Only here is a brick 12 cm thick ("Congratulations, my friend, you lied" (C).
    1. 16112014nk
      16112014nk 5 June 2016 14: 18
      +6
      Quote: Earnest
      Only now is a brick 12 cm thick ("Congratulations, my friend, you have lied" (C)

      In general, it happens and 10 cm. For example: facade brick format WDF. Not everything is so simple.
    2. cth; fyn
      cth; fyn 5 June 2016 16: 19
      +8
      And they lay a wall at least the length of a brick i.e. 24cm, and in Siberia for two ie 48cm, otherwise you’re tormenting to drown! My neighbor has a 1,5 brick wall duck, he burns two cars of coal during the winter and buys a lorry in the spring and a half, in the spring I burn a lorry and buy coal in the spring and summer (in the summer for a bath, well, for every fireman, you never know what)
      1. AllXVahhaB
        AllXVahhaB 6 June 2016 08: 16
        +2
        Quote: cth; fyn
        My neighbor

        Is it in Romania or what?
        1. cth; fyn
          cth; fyn 7 June 2016 09: 43
          0
          What is Romania like?
  10. igordok
    igordok 5 June 2016 07: 55
    0
    As soon as the 12,7 caliber is not bullied, it is thrust into a shell shell, then vice versa into a small cylindrical one. laughing Everything is numb. The main thing is that the end result is. soldier
  11. volodya
    volodya 5 June 2016 07: 56
    +1
    The article is very interesting, plus to the author!
  12. Mountain shooter
    Mountain shooter 5 June 2016 08: 01
    +3
    Judging by the size of the sleeve, the energy of the cartridge is close to the "three-line". The peculiarity of firing low-velocity ammunition is a very sharp vertical drop of the bullet at a distance. Free fall acceleration, however. Approximately 5 meters at 300 m distance (determined by the time of flight of the bullet, considered 300 m / s). And on 600 meters - already 20 m descent! This is if the speed of the heavy bullet does not drop much. It is difficult with such amendments to shoot at such distances, whatever the optics were. The dynamics of "Exhaust" and "Shaft" (the speed of bullets at the exit from the barrel) are the same, probably, and the range of the shot will be similar. Powerful short-range weapon. The recoil momentum must be hard because of the heavy bullet.
    And on the fighter - headphones from the walkie-talkie. Well, there is no tactical headphone wire wassat
    1. AndreyS
      AndreyS 5 June 2016 10: 17
      +4
      Quote: Mountain Shooter
      And on the fighter - headphones from the walkie-talkie. Well, there is no tactical headphone wire

      You are wrong, these active headphones are supplied to the army and are called GSSh-01, they have the ability to connect to a radio station.
      Here is an article about them - http://polarman.livejournal.com/26924.html
      1. Mountain shooter
        Mountain shooter 5 June 2016 15: 23
        0
        And a headset to them? In the first shot.
  13. avg-mgn
    avg-mgn 5 June 2016 08: 08
    0
    Quote: philosopher
    Under such a cartridge - a machine gun - it would be understandable, but an automatic machine !? The recoil momentum is not too big?

    This is probably why the manufacturer does not confirm. From TK to the release of an acceptable working specimen, how many seizures, including the fight against momentum.
  14. Skubudu
    Skubudu 5 June 2016 09: 22
    +6
    Big flying time of a bullet, poor flatness ... real shooting distance up to 200m.
    But sniper shooting, for example, in a hostage situation ... not one sniper will undertake to shoot from it in such a situation. At a distance of up to 200m, the rifle cartridge 7.62 also sews any wearable armor. In conditions of urban combat, it is better to have a rifle with a high FPS, a long direct shot range and a silencer that, accordingly, will not reduce the volume of the shot a lot, than a low noise but with a low FPS and a slingshot ballistics. Therefore, I do not understand the niche for the use of this rifle.
    Before minuscule, look out of the rifles with which ballistics all the special forces of the world shoot.
    1. brn521
      brn521 6 June 2016 13: 54
      +1
      Quote: Skubudu
      Before minuscule, look out of the rifles with which ballistics all the special forces of the world shoot.

      Regular sniper rifles with a screwed-on silencer and special cartridge. The caliber is small, and cannot compete with the "Exhaust" in terms of power. But at a distance of up to 200m, this is enough for them. Tactical silencers are also used. At a short distance, they scatter sound and muffle the flash, interfering with the localization of the shooter in the shot. On medium and above they work as full-fledged mufflers, attenuated sound dissipates almost completely with distance. A normal rifle with a tactical silencer at medium ranges is likely to be cheaper and more accurate than the Exhaust.
  15. 1536
    1536 5 June 2016 10: 03
    +4
    Since Soviet times, the TsKIB SOO has the glory to make unit, single excellent examples of small arms. God grant that this fate does not suffer their current developments. And what is needed for this? We need the political will of the customer to order weapons in the city of Tula, and not in the suburbs of the city of Breschi in Italy.
    Is it really impossible to fill the hunting shops with OUR good, not expensive weapons of various modifications, replaceable sets of trunks, outwardly beautiful samples, finally ?! Yes, you can, of course. Perhaps military developments will help.
  16. martin-159
    martin-159 5 June 2016 10: 11
    +3
    In the design of the weapon, it was decided to use a scheme with manual reloading, which gives higher accuracy and accuracy of fire compared to automatic samples. The return of such weapons is less, since there is no inertia from the movement of the bolt inside the receiver. Finally, this design is simpler and easier, which affects reliability and convenience.

    At the expense of returns, I would argue.
    1. Mountain shooter
      Mountain shooter 5 June 2016 17: 25
      +2
      Right. The return on systems with automation is BELOW.
  17. Siberian
    Siberian 5 June 2016 10: 54
    +3
    .... It is gratifying to read such news, it says that the military-industrial complex of Russia is gradually rising from its knees ... And you do not need to be a great specialist to understand that this product will find its consumer not only in our Army, but also abroad. Well, the growth of technical thought indicates that progress in Russian weapons is not standing still, which means that new production and new jobs will appear .... As for = products =, so much has been said about it, and add - then there is nothing .........
  18. Kenneth
    Kenneth 5 June 2016 11: 07
    0
    I can not imagine the task for this thing. Kill the tank but so that no one notices.
  19. cyberhanter
    cyberhanter 5 June 2016 11: 25
    0
    mounted Picatinny rail

    Correct me if I'm wrong, but this is the weaver plank, not Piccatini. The article is one, in the pictures another. This is someone's illiteracy in the photo of Viver, but then decided to make Piccatini?
    1. La-5
      La-5 5 June 2016 15: 31
      +4
      Quote: cyberhanter
      mounted Picatinny rail

      Correct me if I'm wrong, but this is the weaver plank, not Piccatini. The article is one, in the pictures another. This is someone's illiteracy in the photo of Viver, but then decided to make Piccatini?

      They differ only in the size of the slots, you can even mount sights designed for Weaver mount on Picatinny rail, but if on the contrary you have to work with a file.
  20. cdznjckfd
    cdznjckfd 5 June 2016 12: 17
    +1
    In the exhaust, the obvious development of the screw cut theme is apparently someone from the FSB specialists lacked the power of 9mm, so they ordered it to be guaranteed at night to those who tear off their heads on the chip.
  21. ishty
    ishty 5 June 2016 15: 12
    +2
    In the conditions of urban battle, but with a lot of ruins, a very good device.
    1. Syria
      Syria 5 June 2016 17: 54
      +5
      Where duval is difficult to dig in - a heavy bullet when hit will give a lot of stone debris flying in all directions. It will not raise their heads and nothing is visible. Covering a group with fire of such a rifle during an attack is a sweet deal.
      1. psiho117
        psiho117 6 June 2016 14: 57
        0
        Quote: sirias
        Where duval is difficult to dig in - a heavy bullet when hit will give a lot of stone debris flying in all directions. It will not raise their heads and nothing is visible. Covering a group with fire of such a rifle during an attack is a sweet deal.

        what the nonsense ?! belay

        cover with fire from five-shot Pandora with tame reloading ?!
  22. Forever so
    Forever so 5 June 2016 19: 02
    0
    What a delight !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
  23. berezin1987
    berezin1987 5 June 2016 21: 58
    0
    A good rifle for specific tasks. She would expand the range of ammunition used to combat the enemy's material assets. It is clear that in this case the effect of surprise after the first shots will be lost. But the silence of the shot will greatly complicate the determination of the location of a sniper by the sound of the shot, increasing the likelihood of a combat mission. For example, the destruction of enemy aircraft at the airport or the defeat of the radar
  24. berezin1987
    berezin1987 5 June 2016 22: 05
    0
    The only minus of the rifle is the low quality of the finish, the use of low-quality plastic. The same applies to the OS-96, if you look at the quality of surface treatment, especially at the huge weld on the side. In addition to high performance characteristics, the weapon should have a presentable appearance. Look at American designs and the quality of their exterior. Why in Russia they are wrapping tasty sweets in double packaging? Is it really so expensive to remove traces of machine tools and polish surfaces, remove sharp corners and burrs?
    1. goose
      goose 6 June 2016 10: 40
      0
      Quote: berezin1987
      Is it really so expensive to remove traces of machine tools and polish surfaces, remove sharp corners and burrs

      Everything rests on the price of manual labor. You want a smooth seam - the price is 2 times more. After all, the children of workers in Tula want to eat no less than the children of American gunsmiths.
    2. brn521
      brn521 6 June 2016 14: 16
      +2
      Quote: berezin1987
      The only minus of the rifle is the low quality of the finish, the use of low-quality plastic.

      Cardin in his magazine somehow laid out her price tag for the Ministry of Internal Affairs, 480 thousand rubles. in 2009 http://karden.livejournal.com/10099.html.
      Quote: berezin1987
      Is it really so expensive to remove traces of machine tools and polish surfaces, remove sharp corners and burrs?

      It’s better to save a few thousand for a rollback, then there will be a much greater chance of pushing the same Ministry of Internal Affairs.
      Quote: berezin1987
      She would expand the range of ammunition used to combat the enemy's material assets.

      There are silent underbarrel grenade launchers and silent mortars.
    3. Filxnumx
      Filxnumx 6 June 2016 20: 30
      0
      And how did the unshavenness of the MiG-25 pilot affect the flight speed of this aircraft? Not all that glitters is gold.
  25. Above_name
    Above_name 6 June 2016 03: 49
    0
    ammunition (1) RU Yesterday, 16:28 ↑
    .

    Once upon a time (over 30 years ago), the competent developed an ultra-long-range, small caliber rifle with a heavy tungsten bullet.
    ...
    3) Heavy and small caliber the bullet does not require wind adjustments ..
  26. Backfire
    Backfire 6 June 2016 05: 36
    0
    Great article is very interesting.
  27. tracer
    tracer 6 June 2016 06: 37
    +1
    Oh, how Much bother "triangular affairs" ..... The article is excellent, well written and the topic is good. Komeny time at times such that you can just read it. I rummaged through a lot of information about a closed project with a 6.5 mm bullet. Didn't know that there was such a "tricky" trunk. Thanks to the participants for the discussion.
  28. Bormanxnumx
    Bormanxnumx 6 June 2016 14: 29
    0
    Quote: ammunition
    Quote: Blondy
    And what do competent people think about this?


    sad
    A long time ago (more than 30 years ago), the competent developed an ultra-long-range, small-caliber rifle, with a heavy tungsten bullet.
    Bullet weight - 32 gr. Caliber - 6,5 mm.
    --------------------
    1) Bullet of small caliber and heavy weight very slightly loses speed in the air on the first 3 (three) kilometers of flight. So it easily penetrates the side of an armored personnel carrier to a distance of 2000 meters.
    2) A large barrel length - 1200 mm .., coupled with a very large initial bullet speed - 1250 m / s, allow you to make flat, ideally - gentle cuts of the barrel. And this gave a very rare accuracy.
    3) Heavy and small-caliber bullet does not require wind adjustments under normal conditions. That is - with a wind of not more than 5m / s.
    4) An ordinary silencer makes the rifle completely silent, at its most working distances - 2000 m.
    ------------------
    But repeat The project was hacked .. And forgot forever.
    You see, it's expensive. In those days .. one shot from such a rifle .. came out at a cost, like a shot from a D-30 howitzer.
    ---------------
    The generals were genuinely indignant .. They said - "Yes, it's better to blow a shell!" lol

    Is this some kind of free retelling of the characteristics of the Steyr AMR / IWS 2000 rifle?
    1. philosopher
      philosopher 8 June 2016 14: 43
      0
      Most likely, we are talking about an experimental SVK rifle under a 6mm caliber cartridge, only with highly exaggerated characteristics.
      http://www.guns.yfa1.ru/snajperskaya-vintovka-svk-kalibrom-6-mm.html
  29. The comment was deleted.
  30. Max White
    Max White 7 June 2016 11: 56
    0
    Quote: Blondy
    Guys, you know, I'm not an expert. And of course the exhaust is good in its niche.
    But in the name of the principle "all sorts of mothers are needed, all sorts of mothers are important" I would like to offer you a link to this Lobaev model (link)
    http://lobaev.com/notes/tsvl-8-black-ops

    Also positioned as a silent uberblyushka - TSVL-8 BLACK-OPS -TSVL-8 Stalingrad
    The energy of the cartridge 338 Lapua Magnum does not allow to doubt that a sufficient amount of energy will be delivered to the addressee. This is not a half-pregnant charge on the principle of "just-was-quieter", no. All in an adult way. No compromises: 900 m per second with a bullet of 16, 2 grams, leaving the muzzle with humane 7000J.

    And what do competent people think about this?


    This Lobayev rifle can be compared, for example, with ORSIS T-5000 in 338 caliber. They have a mission, and technical performance, and characteristics are approximately the same.
    It is incorrect to compare with the Exhaust according to all of the above parameters. This is the same as comparing a jeep with a passenger car.
    Sincerely.
  31. the
    the 24 June 2016 12: 57
    0
    great weapon