Military Review

Battleship "Emperor Alexander II" and its atypical fate

21



This ship became the first-born of the 20-year program for strengthening the Russian adopted on May 1882, 20 fleetaccording to which it was proposed to build 16 battleships in the Baltic. Six months after the adoption of the program, the MTK considered the choice of the prototype of the first battleship “for the Baltic Sea”, which was supposed to be equipped with less powerful artillery compared to the designed Black Sea due to the limited displacement. The most suitable prototypes, according to the ITC, were the German battleship Zaksei (displacement of 7400 tons, six 260 mm guns) and the Danish Helgoland (5370 tons, one 305 and four 260 mm), launched respectively in 1877 and 1878.

The displacement of the designed Russian squadron battleship was determined in 7500 t, the average draft was no more than 6 m, the speed was not less than 14 knots, the coal supply was for six days of full speed, the artillery armament was one 305-mm in the forward part with the greatest angle "And four 229-mm guns, in the corners of the booked casemate with the possibility of firing two at the bow, two at the stern. Booking - iron-plating slabs with the greatest thickness in the middle part of the 356 board mm; The main gauge barbet and the casemate decided to protect 254 with 305-mm plates, the deck above the casemate with 38,1-mm sheets, and outside it with two-layer 75-mm armor. When drafting sketched drawings, the armor belt at the waterline was extended to the extremities in accordance with the order of the manager of the Marine Ministry, Admiral I.A. Shestakova. Artillery noticeably increased, even to the detriment of the draft (it increased to 7 m); instead of one, two 305-mm long-range 30-caliber guns, which were then designed, which were intended to be placed on sinking machines inside a pear-shaped barbet; eight 152-mm guns were added on the battery deck. The ammunition was supposed to make up for every 305-mm 85 cannon, and for 229-millimeter-125 shells. In the final form, the reservation looked like this: a belt of width 2,6 m half (1,5 m) was under water; the belt on the waterline was covered with sheets of mild steel in two layers (total thickness 63,5 mm); the lining of the armor was served by larch beams (254 mm), placed under the thickest plates.

For firing at close distances while lowering the guns, the upper deck to the bow and stern had some gentleness. Floodability provided ten transverse and one longitudinal waterproof bulkhead. The body was sheathed with sheet steel from 9 to 12,7 mm. The displacement of the battleship increased to 8634 t, of which 2935 t (34%) accounted for the hull with underwater wooden and copper casings, the armor 2474 t (29%), the machine 247 t (14,4%), and the artillery 650 t (7,5% ), a luggage team - 72 t (0,8%), provisions with water - 84 t (0,9%), reserves and mine equipment - 300 t (3,5%), coal - 872 t (10%). The design speed increased to 15 knots was ensured by two compound steam engines with a total power of 8000 l. with. First, the frigate car "Vladimir Monomakh" was taken as a model, and then the armored cruiser "Admiral Nakhimov". According to preliminary calculations, 872 tons of coal should have been enough for 4,5 days of full speed (1620 miles), and with half of the boilers operating - nine (2800 miles); additional storage facilities were planned for another 500 t with the expectation of longer voyages in the ocean, however, the draft increased to 7,3 m. In addition, the brig was equipped with a sailing rig - a spar of two iron masts with sails of 2265 square. m, further reduced to 1560.

Battleship "Emperor Alexander II" and its atypical fate


The final drawings and specification of the ship MTK approved 24 August 1883. At the same time, distribution of orders between domestic plants for the rental of steel for the hull, the construction of new workshops began, and in September the construction of a wooden slipway in the New Admiralty in St. Petersburg, where the battleship was supposed to be built with state funds. In mid-November, they began assembling the hull directly on the stocks.

It is interesting to note the attitude of the battleship builder Lieutenant Colonel N.A. Subbotin to the campaign to “save” funds in the construction of ships that began in the Maritime Ministry. Offering to order very expensive tick bars in England, he wrote that armadillos were built for durable service, and the builder is obliged to make all the constructive elements, down to the smallest, "out of materials in the best way ... less repair will make much more savings for the treasury afterwards than temporary savings from cheaper material during construction. "The entire 1884 of the year was spent on building the hull; work slowed down in the winter was resumed in the spring. For the hull brought in April to residential (armored) decks Both the steering and frame shtevnya ordered Putilov plant and Izhorskaya -. Armor plate and vertical plates of mild steel for booking deck Baltic plant began manufacturing major mechanisms.

29 April 1885 of the ITC was reviewed by N.A. Subbotin, the third option for reinforcement of armaments, which provided for the replacement of four 229-mm with two 305-mm implements in the barbet aft installation. Against this, a member of the ITC, Lieutenant-General F.V. Pestich, who believed that such rearmament would lead to a “slowdown in the speed of fire”; in his opinion, these weapons are suitable only against a small number of existing battleships, and the absence of nasal 229-mm guns will significantly weaken the force of the nasal salvo, which is so important during a “ram attack”. For the main number of armored battleships built in 1865-1880, with 114-254 mm side armor (as opposed to which the first Baltic battleship was created), 229-mm guns were considered to be very effective. Refusing, at the insistence of F. V. Pestich, changes in armament, MTC found it expedient in order to save weight to make the barbet protection of 305-mm guns not round, but replacing machines with non-lowering ones. The saved 140 ts were used to good effect - on the armor covers of casemates 229-mm guns (152-mm traverse and 75-m side plates), to increase the thickness of the outer side to 50-mm guns to protect against small caliber guns.

15 July 1885, the battleship under construction was named “Emperor Alexander II”, at the same time it was added to the lists of ships of the Russian fleet. Shortly before this, in June 1885, the Society of French-Russian factories received an order for a battleship of the same type (later “Emperor Nicholas I”). In the process of building both ships often made adjustments. So, for example, instead of hard-to-reach coal feed pits, they arranged additional storage on the residential deck. At the insistence of the MTC, they abandoned the submerged wooden and copper casings, thereby lightening the hull on the 194 t. The 229-and 152-mm guns intended for the installation were replaced with more powerful 35-gauge caliber . At the suggestion of the battleship commander, captain 70, rank P.F. Yuriev, as well as the generalization of the experience of sailing in the Pacific Ocean of the frigate “Vladimir Monomakh”, decided to abandon the sailing armament and install only two steel masts with a mars on each for the Hochkiss 1-mm guns.



1 July, 1887, the ship was launched, after which the loading of cars and boilers began. In October, the assembly of the armored deck was completed, the installation of the battery and upper decks, the manufacture and installation of wooden side panels, cabin bulkheads and doors began. Decking with wood ended only in April 1888 of the year. The barbet installation ordered by the Metal Plant, seven onboard torpedo tubes (the two in the stern were subsequently abandoned), and the last 29 side plates were installed due to late delivery only by the end of 1889. Transferred to the completion of the construction in the port of Kronstadt in spring 1890, the battleship began to be prepared for tests, despite a lot of flaws. To a specially created acceptance commission chaired by Admiral K.P. Pilkin entered the junior flagship of the Baltic Fleet, Rear Admiral S.O. Makarov. The past 18 of September, the 1890 of the year, the tests of mechanisms showed good results, although both machines did not add up to the 211 HP. (with a displacement of 8748 t and power 8289 hp speed was 15,27 knots).

The tests of artillery fired at the end of September at maximum angles of descent did not reveal serious damage to the corps; The mechanisms of the barbet installation did not complain. Repeated tests also gave good results, also revealing the possibility of increasing the firing angles by changing the shape of the wings of the bridge. “In general, the ship makes a good impression in its improvement, and many details deserve great approval for the meticulousness of dressing and deliberation,” S. Makarov later wrote.

Despite the official completion of construction in 1891, the work continued on the battleship. So in the spring of 1892, a spherical armor cover was finally mounted for 305-mm guns, although an attempt to establish it was made a year ago. Similar, the original form of the roof a little later mounted on another domestic battleship "Twelve Apostles." All the works were actually completed only in the summer of 1893, when the spherical roof of the barbet installation acquired an approved MTK visor designed to protect the embrasure from precipitation. From that moment on, “Alexander II” gained its unique look.



The 1894 campaign of the year for the battleship was part of the Practical Squadron. According to the naval headquarters, this detachment of combat-ready ships was to meet in the open sea enemy forces "penetrated the Baltic". It should be noted that the attitude to such plans was quite serious. All the squadron's occupations and voyages were devoted directly to combat training and a thorough study of the complex and shallow waters of the Baltic Sea. Ships constantly visited all areas where, according to the General Staff, there could be battles with the enemy. The voyages were full of intense exercises and practical shooting.

The beginning of 1895 of the year brought the news of a big celebration being prepared in Germany, which marked the completion of the long-term construction of the Kiel Canal, which was named Kaiser Wilhelm. This channel was of great strategic importance, as it connected the North and Baltic seas. Three Russian ships "Alexander I", the cruiser "Rurik" and the gunboat "The Dangerous", which received the sonorous name "Kiel Squadron", made the transition from Kronstadt to Kiel, where, together with the ships of the French and English squadron, took part in the celebrations. The 1895 campaign of the year was not marked by any other special events, which cannot be said of the 1896 campaign of the year that gave rise to the famous Mediterranean voyage.

3 August 1896, the squadron battleships Alexander II, Navarin, as well as the destroyers, having left the anchor, headed for the Swedish port of Khristianzand. So began the only long-distance sailing "Alexander II". Six days later, the detachment arrived at the Swedish port, after which it headed for English Portland. From there, the ships headed for the Mediterranean to the port of Cadiz. September 14 "Alexander II" hit the strongest storm. Wind reached 10 points, and excitement 7 points. The pitching was up to 30 ° aboard. In a minute, "Alexander II" made to 15 scale on board. But the ship and crew honorably withstood this test.



Until the very end of October, the detachment visited various Mediterranean ports and harbors. During the stay in the port of Poros, Grand Duke George Mikhailovich, who was the heir to the Greek throne, came on board the battleship. "Alexander II" delivered the prince to the Italian port of Trieste.

At the end of 1896, the Mediterranean detachment was reinforced. The battleships Nicholas I and Sisoy the Great were added to it, as well as the 2 cruiser of the Vestnik rank and the Posadnik mine cruiser. Strengthening the squadron was timely, as at the beginning of 1897, the conflict between the Greek and Turkish populations broke out on the island of Crete. It all started with a fight in the bazaar, which turned into riots, in which more than 60 people died. Given the strained relations between Greece and Turkey, the outbreak of war was not ruled out. Her probability became even more pronounced after the Greek cruiser Miaulis fired on Turkish transport.

The leading powers decided to block the island of Crete - which was the main source of tension. It was necessary to prevent the possibility of delivering regular troops to the island. Crete and Russian ships were blocked, which made it clear to friendly Greece that Russia adheres to and will not allow aggravation of relations with other powers. Naturally, the Greeks actively condemned such a policy of Russia. The conflict dragged on for the entire 1897 year, which delayed Russian ships in these places. However, 5 of April "Alexander II" came out of the bay and headed for Malta, where the battleship was planned to be put in the English dock for repairs.

During the inspection of the bottom, which was carried out in the dock, it turned out that the false hood was strongly eaten by a wood worm, which felt great in warm waters. The British workers began to correct it. Docking was delayed, so the battleship returned to the port of the Court only on June 24. Swimming in the Greek waters resumed. The rest of the 1897 of the year, "Alexander II" spent in the transitions between the Greek ports and exercises. During this period he was the flagship of the Mediterranean squadron.



At the beginning of 1898, it was urgently necessary to strengthen the squadron of the Pacific Ocean, where Sisoy the Great and Navarin had gone. In late March, he left the squadron and "Nikolai I", sent to Kronstadt for repairs. Of the battleships in the Mediterranean, only “Alexander II” remained.

During the long voyage in the car, the usual repairs were carried out. On the whole, the cars were in a completely satisfactory condition, and the 2 June 1898 disaster that occurred could be considered a random rather than a natural one. As a result of ignition of accumulated carbon gases, an explosion occurred in the left side corridor, near coal pits. Two firemen died, six more were injured. The cause of ignition was the fire of a candle, which was lit by firemen in a room adjacent to a coal pit.

But the voyage of the Alexander II continued. 19 November, the battleship again put in the dock. Now in the Italian port of Paul. December 24 "Alexander II" went out on the water and during the sea trials easily reached the speed in the 11,75 node. Mediterranean swimming "Alexander II" lasted until April 1901 year.

Early in the morning of September 7 1901, the inhabitants of Kronstadt found out in a dark silhouette, slowly entering the harbor of the ship, the squadron battleship "Emperor Alexander II". The ship immediately aroused interest in meeting the sailors of the public. Needless to say, the battleship passed almost 36 000 miles, which is almost one and a half times the length of the equator. In the fire chambers of the 12 ship boilers, 19500 tons of coal were burned, which is twice the weight of the battleship by weight. From the heavy service from the "Alexander II" to the shore, to the hospital, an 147 man was sent, this is almost a quarter of the ship's command. The 16 sailors did not return home. 12 of them died in a foreign land, and 4 remained abroad in search of a "better life."



In April, 1902 of the year, "Alexander II" joined the Artillery Training Detachment, and in the new campaign he was prepared for intensive swimming and shooting. The General Staff realized the acute shortage of commanders who should be urgently prepared in the campaigns of the next two years. By 1903, the once powerful battleship had practically become "powerless", it had to be re-equipped, repaired and upgraded, making it a full-fledged fleet unit.

In 1904, the "Alexander II" replaced weapons in accordance with the requirements for training and artillery ships. Of the previous systems, only two 305-mm guns remained. Four old 229-mm guns were replaced by five new 203-mm guns. The ship also received eight 152- and four 47-mm on battery and four 120-mm on the upper deck. Masts and yards were replaced with new, reduced and lighter ones. For night firing mounted spotlights system Mangene. Based on the experience of the Russo-Japanese War, onboard torpedo tubes were dismantled. During the sea trials, there were many defects in the boilers that flowed. They were coined, but this was enough for only one campaign. A major overhaul of the boilers was completed only in the winter of the year 1911, after which the battleship showed speed in the 12,7 node.

The next known page in the life of the battleship "Emperor Alexander II" was participation in the revolutionary movement. At the beginning of 1902, the first naval Social Democratic circle was organized on this ship, and from 1914, an underground group operated under the leadership of the artillery non-commissioned officer Bolshevik I. D. Sladkova. In the days of the February Revolution, the crew immediately joined the rebels of Kronstadt, and the ship committee took over the command of the ship. It was at his request that the 22 battleship of May 1917 received a resounding new name - “Dawn of Freedom”; 113 sailors from the battleship participated in Petrograd in July demonstration, which was shot by order of the Provisional Government. But this did not stop the sailors. On the instructions of the Kronstadt Committee, in September the crew began to prepare for an armed uprising. Under the leadership of the Bolshevik A.F. Linyaev aboard the 15 ship of October, a meeting was held which addressed the sailors of the Baltic Fleet with the following words: “We all say: hands off, all power to the Soviets of workers, soldiers and peasants' deputies. Remember, comrades, that time does not wait. Quite words, you need to act. "



In the morning of October 25, the battleship took the position appointed at the headquarters of the uprising, at the entrance to the Kronstadt harbor to defend the Baltic Fleet base. 9 November 1917 “Dawn of Freedom” again arrived in Petrograd and anchored near the cruiser “Aurora”. This time the crew was charged with ensuring the revolutionary order in the capital and guarding Smolny; in the summer of 1918, the ship returned to Kronstadt. In January 1919, the battleship, along with other ships, took up a combat position at the entrance to the channel; he was faced with the task of not allowing the ships to pass without the permission of the military revolutionary committee, and in the event of the counter-revolutionary troops attacking Petrograd, to keep the whole Ligovsky district under fire. Later the ship was stored in the port; in 1922, they began to disassemble it. Thus ended the path of the squadron battleship of the Baltic Fleet, which did not participate in any battle, but at the same time managed to influence foreign and domestic political events.



Sources:
Arbuzov V. Battleship "Emperor Alexander II" // Battleships of the Russian fleet. 1997. No.4. C. 26-34, 81-107.
Pavlenko S. Russian battleships "Emperor Alexander II" and "Emperor Nicholas I" // Science and Technology. 2011. No.6 (61). C. 27-33.
Arbuzov V. Battleship “Dawn of Freedom” // Shipbuilding. 1987. No.7. C. 60-62.
Balakin S. Weapon against their own ("Emperor Alexander II") // Model-designer. 1994. No.3. C. 34-37.
Melnikov R.M. Battleship "Emperor Nicholas I" // Gangut. No.8. C. 21-23.
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  1. bionik
    bionik 6 June 2016 06: 57
    +2
    Battleship "Emperor Alexander II"
  2. The comment was deleted.
    1. bionik
      bionik 6 June 2016 07: 02
      +1
      Battleship "Emperor Alexander II"
  3. bionik
    bionik 6 June 2016 07: 07
    +1
    Battleship "Emperor Alexander II"
  4. Aleksandr72
    Aleksandr72 6 June 2016 07: 13
    +7
    The head Baltic battleship "Emperor Alexander II" turned out quite in accordance with the saying - the first pancake is always lumpy. He inherited from the family of British ships "Conkerrora" - "Victoria" the layout of artillery, a powerful ram stem, relatively weak protection of the stern and medium-caliber artillery. But he had a number of advantages: a full armor belt along the waterline, a high side, which significantly improved seaworthiness and allows you to fire in fresh weather, increased firing angles of medium-caliber guns. The main-caliber artillery on the "Emperor Alexander II" was placed in the bow barbette - like the first Black Sea battleships of the "Catherine II" class, and on the second (considered to be of the same type) ship, "Emperor Nicholas I" - in a two-gun turret, designed by the shipbuilding engineer N. E. Kuteinikov.
    In the bow, the "Emperor Alexander II", the only battleship in the Russian fleet, had two symmetrically mounted torpedo tubes (instead of the traditional one rod): it was believed that this would not weaken the main weapon - the ram. It is noteworthy that the new Baltic battleships were completely built at domestic enterprises.
    However, this ship took too long to build - it was laid down in 1883, it went into operation completely after all the alterations and repairs only 10 years later - in 1893 (including the consequences of the Swedish Olaf steamer hitting the stern aboard the Russian ship At the same time, on “Alexander II” the starboard sheathing in the stern area was pressed, the torpedo hatch fell off its hinges and drowned, and the sponsor of the feed gun of Hotchkiss was sold.
    At the time of commissioning, the artillery of this battleship was already outdated (305-mm and 229-mm guns Model 1877 on black powder). Although the armor is thick (the belt is up to 56 mm thick), it is steel-iron, although the introduction of steel armor has already begun everywhere, much stronger with a smaller thickness. It is not surprising that after a short active service, the battleship was transferred to a training detachment. there was no place for him in the line in battle. Well, at least under the spitz they did not think of driving this battleship into the Nebogatov squadron, otherwise it either shared the fate of the Borodinians and Ushakov and would have been sunk, or their "sister ship" "Emperor Nicholas I", who lowered the flag in front of the Japanese and subsequently entered into the Japanese fleet as a coastal defense battleship "Iki", in which capacity it was used to guard the shores of Japan until 1915.
    Long-term construction and poor quality of construction was a common misfortune of the Russian shipbuilding industry (for which Russian sailors had to take the rap, from an ordinary sailor to an admiral), in the case of the hero of the article, this misfortune was aggravated by the desire to save money on ship construction, trying to cram the maximum possible into the limited displacement. The result is, as usual, a ship with very mediocre combat qualities. No one in the world, even the "enlightened sailors" of the British, has managed to build a truly successful warship, if initially the condition of limiting the amount and cost of construction was set - you always have to sacrifice any qualities, such as security, speed, weapons, seaworthiness, cruising range. There are plenty of examples of this in maritime history.
    1. avt
      avt 6 June 2016 09: 07
      +4
      Quote: Aleksandr72
      ... No one in the world, even the "enlightened sailors" of the British, has managed to build a truly successful warship, if initially the condition was set to limit the amount and cost of construction - you always have to sacrifice any qualities, such as security, speed, weapons, seaworthiness, and cruising range. There are plenty of examples of this in maritime history.

      The pinnacle of such savings was the not happy "Gangut", built on the balance of funds in general, like half of the hero of the article.
      1. Mikado
        Mikado 6 June 2016 11: 52
        +3
        Quote: avt
        The pinnacle of such savings was the not happy "Gangut", built on the balance of funds in general, like half of the hero of the article.

        As the sailors spoke about the Gangut: One mast, one pipe, one cannon - one misunderstanding.
    2. Roman 11
      Roman 11 6 June 2016 23: 22
      +1
      Quote: Aleksandr72
      Well, at least they didn’t think of driving this battleship into the squadron of Nebogatov under the spitz

      Yes, they did not have time to renew it, according to the idea he should "run" after others along with Slava, by the way, it was in the spring of 1905 that a 5th 8 "was built on the quarterdeck. And his brother at Tsushima shot well and annoyed the Mikado sons in order - it is generally accepted that Fuji miraculously didn’t detonate exactly from the 12 "shell from Nikolai, when he struck that barbet, but the fire in the tower was extinguished by the water from the broken hoses, in addition, the 9" emnip hit Asame below the waterline, temporarily incapacitating.
      1. overb
        overb 7 June 2016 15: 53
        -1
        Quote: Novel 11
        And his brother under Tsushima shot well and annoyed the Mikado sons in order - it is generally accepted that Fuji miraculously did not detonate precisely from a 12 "shell from Nikolai,

        Theoretically, the guns of Nicholas I's main battery could also penetrate the 152 mm armor of Fuji. However, it is not known for certain whose shell flew to him. Therefore, for the first time I hear about the "generally accepted statement" here and from you.
        Quote: Novel 11
        in addition, emnip 9 "hit Asame below the waterline, temporarily incapacitating him.

        It is a pity that the Japanese do not know about this. GP of a slightly stale Asama was, of course, not very. But the guns of Nicholas I were even worse. Therefore, this, theoretically, could be. But no further than 30 kbt. and at an angle of attack close to normal. And also let's not forget what to break through only GP Asama had few, further there was a coal pit and bevel of the armored deck.
        In addition, 9 "shells did not hit below the waterline. There were 2 of them, the first hit the upper deck and ricocheted into the captain's cabin. The second hit the lower edge of the aft tower, leaving only a pothole there.
        Other shells below the waterline also did not fall.
  5. qwert
    qwert 6 June 2016 08: 02
    +2
    He was always amazed by the spherical "tower" (on the "Gangut" it also seems to be the same) in the style of the T-62 tank.
    Quote: Aleksandr72
    this misfortune was aggravated by the desire to save money on the construction of the ship, trying to push the maximum possible into the limited displacement. As a result, as usual, we got a ship with very mediocre combat qualities. No one in the world, even the "enlightened sailors" of the British, has managed to build a truly successful warship, if initially the condition was set to limit the amount and cost of construction - you always have to sacrifice any qualities, such as security, speed, weapons, seaworthiness, and cruising range.

    Well, it was planned to use it against the German battleships in the Baltic, and not compete with the British in the ocean. So, for these purposes, the ship even turned out quite well. And despite the fact that he had to represent the flag and interests of Russia in the Mediterranean, the ship performed its task properly. Therefore, I do not think that the money was wasted on it. Unlike the same "Tsarevich"
    1. verboo
      verboo 6 June 2016 09: 24
      +3
      Quote: qwert
      always amazed him by the spherical "tower"

      This is a barbette setting. Not a tower.
  6. UVB
    UVB 6 June 2016 08: 13
    +4
    "Alexander II" in 1913 / clickable /
  7. The comment was deleted.
  8. Verdun
    Verdun 6 June 2016 08: 55
    +1
    I could never understand the meaning of building battleships of a limited displacement for the waters of the Baltic and Black Seas. They constantly write that such a displacement "was found to be sufficient." Sufficient for what? In order to heroically die in battle with the enemy's full-size battleships? It is quite obvious that for successful operations a ship must have the highest possible combat power in its class. In the case when he is inferior to the enemy in the power of artillery, he must surpass him in armor or in speed. Alas, none of the Russian small battleships could boast of this.
    1. yehat
      yehat 6 June 2016 09: 26
      +1
      you are confusing something. the baltic is a rather close theater of operations and there not everything is decided by the "maximum"
      in addition, for example, the Väinemäinen type had a displacement of 3900 tons
      quite a bit, with the main armament 4x254.

      and the number of ships allowed some, but control of the territory.
      1. Verdun
        Verdun 6 June 2016 09: 48
        0
        Quote: yehat
        you are confusing something. the baltic is a rather close theater of operations and there not everything is decided by the "maximum"
        in addition, for example, the Väinemäinen type had a displacement of 3900 tons
        quite a bit, with the main armament 4x254.

        You are confusing something. In the Baltic, Finland was by no means our main adversary. And Väinemäinen was built, to put it mildly, somewhat later than Alexander II.
      2. 97110
        97110 6 June 2016 12: 48
        -2
        Quote: yehat
        and the number of ships allowed some, but control territory.
        How do ships control the territory? From the edge of the water to the horizon lies the water area on which ships frolic. On the territory, the load-bearing capacity of roads will not allow ships to move even at 3300 tons of displacement, either according to the permissible gross weight, or the axle load, even if the axis is found on the ship.
  9. verboo
    verboo 6 June 2016 09: 16
    +4
    First of all, the most important thing should be noted, which for some reason is hushed up in the text. Nicholas I and Alexander II were ships of a continuous booking scheme. The very one that the "specialists" in the slightly later ships of the RIF (the Tsarevich and Borodino residents) are trying to pass off as their advantage. In fact, the construction of ships with this type of booking (Nicholas I and Alexander II), despite the fact that one tower (barbet) of the main battery was cut from them to save weight, ended in failure. Alexander II, incl. thanks to the used light barbet with main guns, it was still all right. But Nicholas I, with a full-fledged GC tower, was still a freak. After this failure, Russia for some time forgot about the EBR of such a booking scheme, building an EBR normal, for ships of such displacement, a citadel scheme. Until Lagan turned up with his project of the Tsarevich ...
    Quote: Technical Engineer
    The saved 140 tons were used with benefit - 229 mm guns (152 mm traverse and 75 side plates) for armored coverings of casemates, to increase up to 50 mm the thickness of the outer side against 152 mm guns for protection against small-caliber guns.

    Almost all this weight went into coal pits. The normal capacity of Alexander II coal pits was increased to 967 tons, and the full capacity to 1467 tons. After deducting the structural and construction advantage (606 tons), this gave a pretty decent range in combat-ready condition, more than 4000 m.m. 10 knots. In this, Alexander II very favorably differed from Nicholas I, who, due to design features and poor construction (total overweight of 960 tons, Franco-Russian Railway) and up to 2000 m. did not reach. True, barbet is not a tower.
    Given the quality of the building, just on Alexander II a tower could have stood, and on Nicholas I a barbet would have been more appropriate. But how do you know in advance how and what will be built?
    Quote: Technical Engineer
    Overhaul of boilers was completed only in the winter of 1911

    It was absolutely bad in Russia with ships then. Otherwise, no one would repair such a junk.
    Quote: Technical Engineer
    On the morning of October 25, the battleship took up the position assigned by the headquarters of the uprising, at the entrance to Kronstadt harbor to protect the Baltic Fleet base.

    From whom? And what?
    1. Alexey RA
      Alexey RA 6 June 2016 09: 51
      +1
      Quote: verboo
      It was absolutely bad in Russia with ships then. Otherwise, no one would repair such a junk.

      Not junk, but a training artillery ship. smile
      There were no other candidates for this job at the BF.
      1. verboo
        verboo 6 June 2016 20: 27
        +1
        Quote: Alexey RA
        Not junk, but a training artillery ship.

        All the same junk. The training artillery ship, in my opinion, should have been a large armless ship, armed with modern artillery systems. Those. one tower 12 ", one 10", etc., including small caliber gun mounts behind the shields. Then the gunners could fully train in an environment close to real. And junk, "armed" with ancient cannons, is just junk. Whatever you name it.
        1. Alexey RA
          Alexey RA 7 June 2016 09: 52
          +1
          Quote: verboo
          The training artillery ship, in my opinion, was supposed to be a large armless ship, armed with modern artillery systems. Those. one 12 "tower, one 10", etc., including small caliber gun mounts behind the shields.

          And who had such a miracle? smile
          As training and artillery ships, everyone used just old stuff. The Germans have the battleships Schlesien before the WWII. The British at the beginning of the twentieth century - BR "Edinburgh" (type "colossus" - the first BR RN with breech-loading guns).
          1. overb
            overb 7 June 2016 14: 30
            0
            Quote: Alexey RA
            And who had such a miracle?

            It does not matter.
            Quote: Alexey RA
            all used just old stuff

            "Everyone" can do a lot. But not necessarily the smart ones.
            In fact, it would be strange if you learned to shoot from AK with a PM in your hands. That's about the same in artillery.
      2. The comment was deleted.
  10. parusnik
    parusnik 6 June 2016 09: 39
    +1
    Thank..
    Steep waves, gray storms
    Such a share in ships
    Their fates are also somewhat similar,
    Something like the fate of people ...
  11. King, just king
    King, just king 6 June 2016 11: 26
    0
    The aft balcony is good. He came out, neither the sailors nor the officers see what the commander or admiral is doing there.

    And the article ... Yes, nothing, to the one who had not read about bronik before.
    1. qwert
      qwert 8 June 2016 07: 21
      +1
      Quote: King, just king
      King, just king (
      You are burning. It would be surprising if the article was more than a monograph, whose volume is more than 300 pages. This would be a violation of the laws of physics and logic. In my opinion, the article is just right in terms of volume and information content. It is clear to those who are far from the fleet and who are interesting to those in the subject.
  12. Verdun
    Verdun 6 June 2016 14: 33
    0
    On November 19, the battleship was again docked. Now in the Italian port of Paul. On December 24, "Alexander II" went out on the water and during sea trials easily reached a speed of 11,75 knots.
    In other words, it showed just amazing speed - less than 3/4 of the design. request Well what can I say, the achievement is definitely outstanding! Just as outstanding as that of the Varyag, which by the time of the battle at Chemulpo was running 14,5 knots instead of the design 23,5 knots. In all fairness, when the car drives only 200 instead of the promised 150 km / h, they demand a refund for this, and they also strive to get compensation ...
    1. Alexey RA
      Alexey RA 6 June 2016 15: 35
      +1
      Quote: Verdun
      Well what can I say, the achievement is definitely outstanding! Just as outstanding as that of the Varyag, which by the time of the battle at Chemulpo was running 14,5 knots instead of the design 23,5 knots.

      For "Varyag" say thanks to the admirals "from under the spitz". It was they who, just before the war, managed to arrange a massive dismissal of qualified personnel, including specialists from machine teams and artillerymen. Moreover, the wise ... people from the Admiralty were told "let us temporarily leave some of the old-timers for training newcomers, increasing their content" - in response, the author of the initiative was reprimanded for a proposal leading to the waste of state funds.
      1. verboo
        verboo 6 June 2016 15: 48
        +2
        Quote: Alexey RA
        arrange the mass dismissal of qualified personnel, including specialists from machine teams and gunners.

        "Guys" running errands did not decide anything. And all the mechanics and artillerymen were personnel.
        1. Alexey RA
          Alexey RA 6 June 2016 18: 26
          +1
          Quote: verboo
          "Guys" running errands did not decide anything. And all the mechanics and artillerymen were personnel.

          Only here is the combination staff bellows and the newly released "green" subordinates managed to kill even the theoretically unkillable Belleville on "Oslyab", because of which he was late to Port Arthur. The officers simply did not have time to follow everything, and there were no competent lower ranks.
          1. verboo
            verboo 6 June 2016 18: 37
            +1
            Quote: Alexey RA
            The officers simply did not have time to follow everything, but there were no competent lower ranks.

            On Oslyab (and Victory), the mechanics were the same, boys after college.
      2. Verdun
        Verdun 6 June 2016 15: 49
        0
        Quote: Alexey RA
        It was they who managed to arrange a massive dismissal of qualified personnel, including specialists from machine teams and artillerymen, right before the war.

        Interesting you get. Apparently Rudnev on Varyag had dispersed specialists, but on Grammatchikov on Askold, on Viren on Bayan, on Essen on Novik - not?
    2. verboo
      verboo 6 June 2016 15: 46
      +1
      Quote: Verdun
      Just as outstanding as that of the Varyag, which by the time of the battle at Chemulpo was running 14,5 knots instead of the design 23,5 knots.

      The first figure has not been confirmed by anything other than Rudnev's reports, the reliability of which is in doubt. In addition, as far as I remember offhand, the Varyag machines were subjected to a truly barbaric operation. In this row and shutdown of "extra" cylinders (on the Varyag were the first four-cylinder machines in the RIF), and a decrease in the critical pressure in the safety valves "just in case." So, the "service" was there.
      1. Verdun
        Verdun 6 June 2016 15: 52
        +1
        Quote: verboo
        So, the "service" was there.

        Convenience and ease of maintenance are the most important characteristics of any technique. What is the use of units that show outstanding performance only in greenhouse conditions and require specialists and means of an excessively high level for their service? As for the inconsistency of many characteristics of the "Varyag" with the declared ones, it is known not only from Rudnev's reports, but also from the conclusions of the ITC.
        1. verboo
          verboo 6 June 2016 16: 03
          +1
          Quote: Verdun
          What is the use of units showing outstanding performance only in greenhouse conditions and requiring specialists and facilities of an excessively high level for their service?

          Regular. The most common specialists. Exactly the same units of Retvizan did not cause any complaints. So, only the "human factor" and nothing else.
          In addition, the need for "greenhouse conditions" is easy to verify. You drive Varyag's data into a special program and you are easily convinced that nothing of the kind was required. As well as the fact that it was a fighter cruiser. It can be clearly seen from the body completeness and L / B.
          1. Verdun
            Verdun 6 June 2016 16: 33
            +1
            Quote: verboo
            You drive Varyag data into a special program and easily make sure that nothing of the kind was required.

            I'm afraid to ask ... I did not miss anything? 1904 ... Cruiser Varyag ... Nikloss boilers ... Load data into a special program ?! what Rudnev must have had the wrong version of Windows ...))
            1. verboo
              verboo 6 June 2016 16: 39
              +1
              Quote: Verdun
              Special program ?!

              In order to assess the real possibilities of the Varangian, and not the statements of Rudnev, a special program is enough today.
              What is not clear?
              1. Verdun
                Verdun 6 June 2016 16: 49
                0
                Quote: verboo
                What is not clear?

                Have you ever seen a steam boiler live? Were there with a shovel near the firebox? Or just clicked buttons on the mouse and keyboard?
                1. verboo
                  verboo 6 June 2016 17: 15
                  0
                  Quote: Verdun
                  Have you ever seen a steam boiler live? Were there with a shovel near the firebox?

                  Have you seen an alien ship? No, have not you seen? Then how can you judge the speed capabilities of the Varangian?
                  That's about the same "level of argumentation" you have. In Russian, it means that you have nothing to argue with. And I really want to.
                  Quote: Verdun
                  Or just clicked buttons on the mouse and keyboard?

                  You know, I’m afraid to surprise you, but the days of the stokers-Kulibin are long gone. Yes, and I doubt that they were once. But with computers today everything is exactly the opposite. So, if you want to discuss something about ships seriously, put the program and master. Discover a lot of interesting things for yourself.