Military Review

"Barguzin" instead of "Well done" as a response to the missile defense system

236



They say that new is well forgotten old. However, sometimes there are situations when a return to the old and expedient, and even necessary.

We are talking about BZHRK - combat railroad missile systems. At the end of the Soviet era, our country had such a miracleweapons. And the term "miracle weapon" is not ironic. BZHRK "Good for you", despite all the difficulties of exploitation, became that hemorrhoids for the secret services of our probable enemy.

Today, the likely adversary is mostly called a "partner", but the essence does not change one iota. NATO, as it was pulling up to the borders of Russia, continues its march in this direction, and the missile defense system, no matter how the US tries to convince everyone that it is directed against Iran, is increasingly seeking to settle also on our borders.

President Putin voiced that we will take adequate measures to counter. Apparently, one of such measures was the revival of BZHRK. Of course, not at all in the form in which they existed in 90.

A little excursion into history.

The Soviet rocket system 15P961 "Modedets" (RT-23 UTTH) stood on combat duty at the Strategic Missile Forces of the Armed Forces of the USSR and Russia in the period from 1987 to 1994 year in the number of 12 units. Then (by 2007 year) all the complexes were dismantled and destroyed, with the exception of two, transferred to the museums.

On the railways of the USSR and Russia had the symbol "train number zero."

The structure of BZHRK included a train of standard configuration for the complex:

- three three-car launch modules with RTB-23UTTH;
- the command module as part of 7 wagons;
- tank wagon with stocks of fuel and lubricants;
- two diesel locomotives DM-62.



In each of the locomotives, a separate locomotive brigade was on duty. During the training of officers' locomotive brigades of BZhRK, for detailed acquaintance with the route, they were periodically seconded to civilian trains following the same route.

BZHRK looked like a normal composition of refrigerated and passenger cars. The starting modules had eight wheel sets. The remaining wagons - wagons - four wheel sets each.

Even from the satellite it was difficult to distinguish the BZHRK from the usual mixed composition. The only thing that could give out BZHRK - it's built locomotives. But over time, more powerful diesel locomotives were developed, and there were two locomotives. And for masking, the heavy trains of the Ministry of Railways of the USSR also began to be equipped with two pairs of locomotives.

"Barguzin" instead of "Well done" as a response to the missile defense system


The brilliant creation of Soviet engineering. It was created by groups led by RAS Academicians Vladimir Fedorovich Utkin and Alexey Fedorovich Utkin. Alexey Utkin created the starting train himself, and Vladimir Utkin created a rocket and a launch complex. And they coped with the task, leaving behind a weapon that they could not create in the United States. This applies to both BZHRK as a whole and the RT-23 rocket.

Rocket RT-23, according to NATO classification - SS-24 "Scalpel".



The head part of the missile is a separate type of individual targeting with ten combat units with a power of 0.43 Mt and a complex of means for overcoming missile defense.

Firing range - 10100 km.
Rocket length - 23,0 m.
Starting container length - 21 m.
The maximum diameter of the rocket body is 2,4 m.
Rocket launch weight - 104,8 t.
Missile mass with launch container - 126 t.

The TP-23 was solid fuel, the head part was covered with an aerodynamic fairing with variable geometry (initially inflatable, later - folding). This design of the fairing due to the presence of restrictions imposed on the dimensions of the rocket size railway car.

In general, 512 inventions and patents were registered when creating this railway launching ground. It makes no sense to list them, because it takes too much space, and behind each patent is the work of Soviet engineers who successfully created a unique combat complex. What is worth only retractable nozzles and fairings, fitted to the dimensions of the car, the system of removal of gases from the canvas, the system of removal of contact wires, if the launch was carried out from the electrified section of the road.


A strange device on the roof of the outermost car: a mechanism for withdrawing contact wires


Hydraulic bearings, which accounted for the load during the launch of the rocket in the starting position

BZHRK "Well done", immediately became a headache for the Pentagon. To track them into orbit, a special grouping of satellites was launched, and at the end of 80, when BZhRK had already embarked on the routes, a container with tracking equipment was sent from Vladivostok to Sweden by rail as a commercial cargo. However, the Soviet counterintelligence container quickly "figured out" and it was removed from the train. American General Colin Powell once admitted to the founder of the BZHRK Academician Alexey Utkin: "Searching for your rocket trains is like a needle in a haystack."

Paradoxically, the Americans spent more money on tracking than the creators spent on the development of the train. And "Well done" quietly dissolved in the vast expanses of our vast country. And threatened with "scalpels" to potential opponents.



By the 1991 year, three missile divisions were deployed, equipped with BZHRK 12: in the Kostroma and Perm regions, the Krasnoyarsk Territory. Within the 1500 radius of kilometers from the location of the joints, the railroad track was modernized: wooden sleepers were replaced with reinforced concrete, heavy rails were laid, and embankments were strengthened with more dense gravel.

To completely disguise such work was carried out in other parts of the country.

Outside combat duty BZHRK was in shelter. Then he moved to a certain point of the railway network and divided into three. Locomotives diverted launchers to launch sites — they were usually located around a triangle point. But in general, the launch could be made from any point of the route.

The train had a fuel tank (also disguised as a refrigerator) and a pipeline system that allowed the locomotives to be refueled on the move. There were also sleeping cars for calculation, stocks of water and food. The autonomy of BZHRK was 28 days.

After launching missiles at one point, the composition went to the next - there were more than 200 in the Soviet Union. During the day BZHRK could go over a thousand kilometers. For reasons of secrecy, the routes were laid past large stations, and if they could not be passed, their rocket trains passed without stopping at dawn, when there were fewer people.

Since the BZHRK was planned as a counter strike weapon, the Shining experiment was conducted on 1991 - on the effects of electromagnetic radiation, and on Shift. The latter simulated a nuclear explosion of kiloton power. At the Plesetsk test site in 650 meters from the rocket train, 100 thousands of anti-tank mines that had been taken from warehouses in eastern Germany and laid with the 20-meter pyramid were blown up.

A funnel of diameters 80 meters was formed at the site of the explosion, the sound pressure level in the inhabited compartments of the BZhRK reached a pain threshold (150 decibels), one of the launchers showed that it was removed from readiness. But after restarting the onboard computing complex, the rocket was launched.

According to the START-2 agreement (1993 year), Russia had to remove from service all RT-23UTTH missiles before the 2003 year. At the time of decommissioning, Russia had three missile divisions (Kostroma, Perm and Krasnoyarsk), all 12 trains with 36 launchers. For the disposal of “rocket trains” at the Bryansk repair plant of the Strategic Missile Forces, a special “cutting” line was installed. Despite Russia's withdrawal from the START-2 agreement in 2002, during 2003 - 2007 all trains and launchers were destroyed, except for two demilitarized and installed as exhibits in the museum of railway equipment at the Warsaw station of St. Petersburg and in the AvtoVAZ Technical Museum .

At the beginning of May, 2005, as officially announced by the commander of the RVSH, Colonel-General Nikolai Solovtsov, BZhRK was removed from combat duty at the RVSN. The commander said that instead of BZHRK with 2006, the troops will begin to receive the Topol-M ground-based mobile missile system.

But Topol-M is no match for the Scalpel absolutely. Yes, more modern and protected, "Topol-M" is ten times inferior to the "Scalpel" in power of the warhead.

And then, finally, the news came that the revival of BZHRK began in Russia. Moreover, 12 May passed the information that the production of components of the new train, which will be called "Barguzin", has begun. And by the year 2020, the Barguzins will be on duty.

Of course, the development of technology has affected the appearance and composition of the new BZHRK. Three (and even two) powerful diesel locomotives are likely to replace one. As an option - gas turbine GT1-001 (locomotive with a gas turbine engine). It uses electrical transmission: a gas turbine engine that runs on liquefied natural gas is connected to a generator, and the current generated by the latter is fed to electric motors, which set the locomotive in motion.

The capacity of the gas turbine locomotive is 8,3 thous. KW, which is the largest indicator value for this type of locomotive in the world.

RZD provides the following characteristics of the tested model: speed up to 100 km / h, one refueling is enough for 750 km, fuel is liquefied natural gas.



7 September 2011 of the year GT1-001 set a new world record by running a freight train around the VNIIZhT ring weighing 16 thousand tons (170 cars).

In service with one BZHRK there will be not one, but 6 missiles. And one train will be equated to the regiment.

The RS-26 missile system, aka Yars-M, aka Avangard, aka Boundary. In the modification specifically for BZHRK it will be "Frontier".

The missile is equipped with a separable warhead of individual targeting and has a set of means to overcome the missile defense. Solid, three-stage, flight range up to 11 thousand km, can be equipped with 4 warheads with a capacity of 150 — 300 kilotons.

"Frontier" is equipped with hypersonic maneuvering warheads to break even promising missile defense systems. According to experts, to defeat a PC-26 hypersonic maneuvering warhead, at least 50 SM-3 anti-missiles are needed (hello, PRO!).

Is such an approach adequate, recalling the words of Putin? I am sure that it is. Our "potential ps" calculated that when 25 disperses such complexes across our vast territory, the probability of damage to BZHRK is estimated to be no more than 10%. Subject to the use of missiles such as "Voevoda", or similar in accuracy and ability to fly. What our "potential n" is not yet observed. But "Frontiers", capable of flying 11 000 kilometers, quite quietly reached those lines ...

Well, there will be something to talk about before the US Congress, demanding new and new allocations of funds "for defense." Good luck, as they say.

If the Barguzins are really on the database by 2020, we will breathe a little easier. Yes, to create and build everything you need is a very expensive business. But BZHRK - not an aircraft carrier. It will be easier, and cheaper. And so much pleasure "potential" ...

At such times we live, unfortunately.

It is a pity that the brothers Alexey and Vladimir Utkin, who watched the death of their creations in the cutting lines, kindly provided to us by American partners, will not see this.



Vladimir Fedorovich died in 2000, Alexey Fedorovich - in 2014.

But if the "Barguzins" replace the "Well done" to safeguard the tranquility of our country, this means that the work to which the geniuses from the very depths of the Ryazan region have given their whole lives is done.
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  1. Rurikovich
    Rurikovich 1 June 2016 06: 56 New
    54
    Rather, they would have done and put on duty. soldier And then the West is already on the head of a greyhound. And less attention should be paid to the different stench about START II violations. The Americans themselves are cynically violating everything with the cover of democratic values. Because "Barguzin" will serve as the answer to various tricks repeat
    Personally, my opinion hi
    1. Alex_Rarog
      Alex_Rarog 1 June 2016 07: 40 New
      27
      I would say that the new complex is more than adequate! May the gods take him into service on time!
      1. pofigist_26_rus
        pofigist_26_rus 3 June 2016 17: 18 New
        +1
        The question begs a little different, we have many systems adopted, but not purchased for the MORF. So, what’s more important here is how many of the warheads (the number of which is very limited) will be delivered on this platform.
    2. Andrey Yuryevich
      Andrey Yuryevich 1 June 2016 07: 54 New
      20
      And by 2020 the Barguzins will be on alert.
      four years later, maybe even sooner. impressive, worked ... a few years ago many doubted here on the site that they would be able to restore the BZHRK again.
      1. excomandante
        excomandante 3 June 2016 04: 09 New
        0
        +++ Well, I had no doubts out of stupidity, having read Mr. Koretsky's "Atomic Train")))
    3. Pavel Tsybai
      Pavel Tsybai 1 June 2016 08: 23 New
      62
      (Our "potential n" calculated that with the dispersal of 25 such complexes over the territory of our immense) I support an interesting expression.
      1. Blondy
        Blondy 1 June 2016 10: 33 New
        -20
        But not one hell - it all depends on the point of view.
        1. Talgat
          Talgat 1 June 2016 18: 33 New
          10
          It should be noted that Roman always has interesting articles

          Thank you for this - I read it with pleasure - the topic is generally urgent. It seems that the BZHRK will actually strengthen security and reinforce deterrence of aggressors.
        2. BLACK-SHARK-64
          BLACK-SHARK-64 1 June 2016 23: 27 New
          +6
          horseradish one diameter is different ... but there is still with pimples .... bully
        3. Blondy
          Blondy 2 June 2016 06: 35 New
          0
          Yes, it is fraught with commenting on Putin - so many minuses left.
          1. igog
            igog 3 June 2016 01: 43 New
            0
            sense of humor - useful feeling
        4. NordUral
          NordUral 2 June 2016 09: 57 New
          0
          The main thing is the point of view itself, or rather, speculation.
        5. spiriolla-45
          spiriolla-45 3 June 2016 14: 05 New
          +1
          Quote: Blondy
          But not one hell - it all depends on the point of view.

          Yes, hell is one, but the sizes are different.
    4. denvar555
      denvar555 1 June 2016 11: 02 New
      -7
      + absolutely crazy idea - to send the squads on duty not only on the network of the Russian Federation, but throughout the entire space of 1520.
      1. NordUral
        NordUral 2 June 2016 10: 01 New
        +2
        You know - and the atomic bomb is not crazy?
    5. Grandson of Veteran
      Grandson of Veteran 1 June 2016 12: 07 New
      27
      "... At the test site in Plesetsk, 650 meters from the rocket train, 100 thousand anti-tank mines were detonated, taken from warehouses in eastern Germany and stacked with a 20-meter pyramid ...."

      Well, not trifled in the Union! wink To experience, so to experience! wink
      1. COJIDAT
        COJIDAT 1 June 2016 20: 23 New
        14
        Yeah, Gorbachev didn’t trifle - he ruined everything for dog-fucking!
        1. BLACK-SHARK-64
          BLACK-SHARK-64 1 June 2016 23: 29 New
          12
          burn him in hell ..... am
    6. BLACK-SHARK-64
      BLACK-SHARK-64 1 June 2016 23: 25 New
      0
      definitely .... the pill should be very bitter .... angry
  2. Vitali-46
    Vitali-46 1 June 2016 07: 05 New
    25
    Thank you to the author! Good article !! GOD engineers help in creating Barguzin! I am sure they will succeed !!!
  3. Volga Cossack
    Volga Cossack 1 June 2016 07: 28 New
    +8
    good luck!!!! I will be sincerely glad when they take up combat duty. An important component of our security.
  4. icas
    icas 1 June 2016 07: 34 New
    -79
    "An ingenious creation of Soviet engineering. It was created by teams led by brothers, Academicians of the Russian Academy of Sciences Vladimir Fedorovich Utkin and Alexei Fedorovich Utkin. Alexey Utkin created the starting train itself, and Vladimir Utkin created a rocket and a launch complex." - TOTAL LIE !!!!
    1. B.T.V.
      B.T.V. 1 June 2016 07: 59 New
      34
      Quote: icas
      - TOTAL LIES !!!!


      What, yours, evidence ?! Accusing lies, it would not hurt to bring evidence, otherwise it is an insult.
      1. icas
        icas 3 June 2016 10: 55 New
        -6
        Engines are developed in Perm, fuel - near Moscow, launcher - Leningrad, cars - Kaliningrad (Tver). In 1982, he personally drove with the 3rd step from Moscow to Ulan-Ude and back. Where are Utkins?
        1. master.30.ru
          master.30.ru 3 June 2016 12: 36 New
          +2
          If you are not in the subject then do not write nonsense. Leningrad made a command car. A launcher was made in Siberia. In Pavlograd they made a rocket (without warheads) and handed it over to the military.
    2. Are
      Are 1 June 2016 19: 50 New
      24
      Of course, it’s complete .... The Great Ukrainians launched the launch train, rocket and launch train! .... and the WF and AF Utkins have stolen everything from them) wassat (Lord, give me strength not to laugh!) laughing
      1. kuz363
        kuz363 1 June 2016 21: 37 New
        +2
        How could they steal if the brothers worked at Yuzhmash in Dnepropetrovsk?
      2. NEXUS
        NEXUS 1 June 2016 23: 47 New
        +7
        Quote: ARE
        Of course, it’s complete .... The Great Ukrainians launched the launch train, rocket and launch train! ...

        New Russian smartphone ... AKFON laughing
    3. BLACK-SHARK-64
      BLACK-SHARK-64 1 June 2016 23: 30 New
      0
      who are you and where ???? am
    4. NordUral
      NordUral 2 June 2016 10: 03 New
      0
      What exactly is a lie?
    5. firefighter
      firefighter 2 June 2016 18: 02 New
      0
      Justify! Or at least hint what and how. It seems to me, dear man, are you a meek person? Apparently they invented and implemented all this?
  5. ImPerts
    ImPerts 1 June 2016 07: 46 New
    14
    Our complexes are your problems)))
  6. Penzuck
    Penzuck 1 June 2016 07: 46 New
    33
    "Simple guys from the provinces", unlike the current ones, did not chase after "big money", but simply loved their homeland and their business. They were raised from the Russian "depths" by the Soviet system: "In 1946, Utkin entered the Leningrad Military Mechanical Institute. After successfully graduating from the institute in 1952, he was assigned to one of the leading design bureaus of the country - KB Yuzhnoye in the city of Dnepropetrovsk (Ukraine) . He worked as a design engineer, senior engineer, then headed various research and design departments: group head, sector head, deputy department head, deputy chief designer. "
    Such people were tempered by the War.
    1. NordUral
      NordUral 2 June 2016 10: 04 New
      +5
      The military mech of those years is America's headache so far.
  7. avg-mgn
    avg-mgn 1 June 2016 07: 47 New
    17
    Thanks to the author for the detailed material, I read it with great pleasure.
    The complex from ideas to implementation in a good way!
  8. denvar555
    denvar555 1 June 2016 07: 54 New
    28
    Under existing conditions, it is difficult, but not impossible, to create such a system in Russia.
    But with its practical operation serious problems will arise:
    1. The entire infrastructure for servicing BZhRK (military units, special depot for their installation and repair) has been lost.
    2. Recent reforms in the Railways in the bud kill the role of the state in the railway transport. Railways at the Railways is not left, repair depots sell, not tomorrow will give locomotives. Therefore, security will be a problem.
    3. The problem of secrecy of transportation and the possibility of a "sudden" strike. Given the development of technology and the ability to bribe interested employees of Russian Railways - it will be easy to track the train.
    4. Gas turbine locomotive as a locomotive is nonsense. In the first of all ... so far two (and both are in trial operation). Secondly, the weight of the launcher and the car compared to the “Good for you” has decreased significantly, so it is more expedient to use any modern diesel locomotive, so as not to attract undue attention to the composition.
    And so the idea of ​​reviving the BZHRK is very good and will strengthen the combat effectiveness of our country in any way. A little bit she was late (
    1. Shadowcat
      Shadowcat 1 June 2016 08: 23 New
      +4
      Chef mustache is gone. Plaster is removed - the client leaves.
    2. Ingvar 72
      Ingvar 72 1 June 2016 10: 55 New
      11
      Quote: denvar555
      4. Gas turbine as a locomotive - this is nonsense.

      Well, it’s not entirely nonsense if they go to RZD en masse as locomotives. Brad to use one locomotive. If one fails, the second duplicates, albeit with a decrease in speed. And with one locomotive? Take up a circular defense and wait for a shunt from the nearest station? request
    3. My doctor
      My doctor 1 June 2016 14: 27 New
      +1
      Americans will know where the train is at any time. If all the dispatching and other services of Russian Railways will be in a single information network, then the Americans, having access to them, will be able to calculate where any train is located, even if it is listed as a train with an ordinary load. With modern technologies of the electronic banking system, it will be easy for an interested organization to gain access about business entities whose cargo is in a particular carriage. Not to mention the presence of satellites, when any train passing by stations will cause interest in the electronic brains of computer centers. I think it will be clear what kind of train if it runs without stops outside the schedule, does not load and does not unload, bypasses large industrial cities, settles in heavily protected areas, etc. etc.
      1. Ingvar 72
        Ingvar 72 1 June 2016 15: 16 New
        +3
        Quote: MyVrach
        Not to mention the presence of satellites, when any train passing by stations will cause interest in the electronic brains of computer centers

        But what about cloud cover and the dark? wink
      2. Army soldier2
        Army soldier2 1 June 2016 16: 22 New
        +8
        Sure. If a railcar with an observer is put behind the BZHRK, and in the documentation for the railroad it is indicated "a special train of the RF Armed Forces with nuclear missiles."
        1. master.30.ru
          master.30.ru 3 June 2016 12: 41 New
          0
          BZHRK runs like a letter train. And there are still enough such trains.
      3. The comment was deleted.
      4. The comment was deleted.
      5. Corsair
        Corsair 1 June 2016 16: 30 New
        11
        Quote: MyVrach
        Americans will know where the train is at any time. If all the dispatching and other services of Russian Railways will be in a single information network, then the Americans, having access to them, will be able to calculate where any train is located, even if it is listed as a train with an ordinary load.

        what And if it will be like a regular cargo ride, does a lot of freight stop at all stations? The satellites do not hang in one place, but rush about like crazy in their orbits, you can almost count sunny days in some of our regions on the fingers, after 5 days - they get tired of searching without special beacons.
        Checking for the presence of special beacons is the task of the accompanying and maintenance personnel to find and destroy or rearrange to another regular staff. As an option, make a lot of takes and attach to every second train - let the brains break.
        1. denvar555
          denvar555 1 June 2016 17: 32 New
          +3
          It will not dangle like any freight train. Any railway worker will determine what kind of train it is.
          1. Corsair
            Corsair 2 June 2016 08: 56 New
            +1
            Quote: denvar555
            It will not dangle like any freight train. Any railway worker will determine what kind of train it is.

            belay Do we have any railway workers such specialists? After all, military models can also be fastened to ordinary wagons and trains, it works in disguise in both directions.
            1. goblin xnumx
              goblin xnumx 2 June 2016 18: 57 New
              +2
              even a person who lives next to the road will become a specialist if he climbs the trains at the stations "on the other side" (under the cars) 7 times a day - the carts will "hand over" and the presence of "certain" persons on the platform
            2. 19001900
              19001900 2 June 2016 19: 12 New
              0
              Believe me, even a special carriage for transporting missiles (not a launch platform) for a specialist is different from a conventional carriage. A launch platform equipped with four dual trolleys is immediately evident.
        2. denvar555
          denvar555 1 June 2016 17: 46 New
          +3
          It will not dangle like any freight train. Any railway worker will determine what kind of train it is.
      6. Monarchist
        Monarchist 1 June 2016 19: 14 New
        +1
        Urgently, a matter of particular importance: the forum member "my doctor" should be appointed the chief government consultant on national security issues! So that in your opinion, there are no people in the Strategic Missile Forces and Putin to calculate such options? If so then: a) you
        1. My doctor
          My doctor 2 June 2016 13: 24 New
          +1
          Quote: Monarchist
          Urgently, a matter of particular importance: the forum member "my doctor" should be appointed the chief government consultant on national security issues! So that in your opinion, there are no people in the Strategic Missile Forces and Putin to calculate such options? If so then: a) you

          I'm not talking about what I know how to distinguish one composition from another composition. No, I talked about the fact that such a train may have unmasking signs. And I don’t have the slightest idea about them, but the fact that I composed just an illustration of what they can be. I am sure that there are a huge number of things on which it can be highlighted, as well as the fact that they will be taken into account by those who need it, but it is impossible to foresee everything.
      7. COJIDAT
        COJIDAT 1 June 2016 20: 31 New
        +6
        Nothing of the kind - the same refrigerators will do and assign the trains to various m / n plants working for the defense industry (and there is secrecy anyway), and not one jackal can guess, the stew is future or something else!
      8. SMikhalych
        SMikhalych 1 June 2016 22: 53 New
        +4
        Quote: MyVrach
        I think it will be clear what kind of train it is if it runs without stops outside the schedule, does not load and unloads, bypasses large industrial cities, settles in heavily guarded territories, etc. etc.

        Well, yes, of course, TAM is sitting completely brainless, who will expel the special squad outside the schedule and other lotions ... Just like that, send such a squad on combat duty and not provide elements of secrecy ... only the naive can come up with this. And he cruised by no means in a single copy. In Soviet times, the wagon could be distinguished by the increased number of wheelsets, while Barguzin, in connection with the change in weight characteristics, special wagon does not differ from the usual ref, so here the designers worked hard.
        1. msm
          msm 2 June 2016 11: 23 New
          0
          You are stating that you might think that trains already exist. There is also no approved project, so there are only one proposals.
        2. My doctor
          My doctor 2 June 2016 13: 42 New
          0
          Quote: SMikhalych
          Well, yes, of course, TAM is sitting completely brainless, who will expel the special squad outside the schedule and other lotions ... Just like that, send such a squad on combat duty and not provide elements of secrecy ... only the naive can come up with this. And he cruised by no means in a single copy.

          Naive sad During the preparation of the sketch of the train, the struggle for stealth begins, continuing until it is removed from duty, and I think that with the development of technology this struggle will be fought with varying success, the results of which will not be known not only to us, but its immediate participants will not be sure . And I don’t know what you know about this topic, but I know that I don’t know anything, with which I hastened to share.
      9. NordUral
        NordUral 2 June 2016 10: 06 New
        +2
        With this power of liberoids, they will already know everything. It is time for the country to decide to restore a just social system.
    4. What a
      What a 1 June 2016 18: 15 New
      +1
      I do not agree with point 1; restoring the infrastructure is not so difficult. From scratch, you don’t need to invent, you just need to remember what and how.
      Point 2 has nothing to do with the matter at all. repair and stuff always fighters themselves did.
      3 point yes this is a problem for the FSB I agree with this
      4 point, the weight of the cars was reduced, but the number was increased, respectively, the total weight even increased
      1. denvar555
        denvar555 1 June 2016 19: 32 New
        0
        On 1: you can create, but the project in the Soviet era was not cheap, now it will result in a good penny.
        By 2: not entirely true. "Warriors" could not do this alone without the involvement of the appropriate factories, specialists, equipment.
        By 3: the problem is solved)
        On 4: the author’s idea to use a gas turbine locomotive is original in itself, but it is not necessary, because the weight of the train, not even with floor cars, is unlikely to exceed 1,5-2,0 thousand tons, which is possible for any main locomotive. The locomotive used in the young three needed to be dispersed, and not to create the necessary traction.
        1. COJIDAT
          COJIDAT 1 June 2016 20: 38 New
          +3
          The project will obviously be cheaper, because many Soviet patents will not have to be developed anew, if we take into account the existing experience and do not chase after "sawing the dough."
        2. Shark Lover
          Shark Lover 4 June 2016 05: 31 New
          +1
          P7. Since the project is not very cheap, in order to invest money in it, it is necessary to prepare the political component as qualitatively as possible. In order to prevent the appearance in the ruling circles of the country of the next humpbacks, Chubians and other riffraffs who are ready to put this wonderful project under the knife, the FSB, SVR and other law enforcement agencies, thoroughly clean weapons, soap the ropes, prepare lists of candidates from the highest circles of bureaucrats, for their further resettlement to the continents of Columbus and other remote islands. For the most intractable and stubborn, clinging to the possibilities of easy enrichment and power from the hands of foreign partners, create the FGBU "Beria and KO" with a location in places where there is no Internet, cellular communication and other means of communication, but the presence of not dusty mining operations. Staff on the basis of the merits of these persons to foreign partners.
    5. 19001900
      19001900 2 June 2016 19: 04 New
      +3
      I agree with all the points on my own add:
      1. There is not only a depot but also dedicated launch sites (I suspect not far from the place where I live there was such a dead end with a reinforced rail grate and now there is a fuel base).
      2. The main fleet of wagons has virtually ceased to exist.
      3. It is not even necessary to bribe Russian Railways, FPK and Freight One will inform everything themselves.
      4. I’ll add now there is no infrastructure on the road network for refueling the GT1-001 gas turbo locomotive (if I am not mistaken, they are now used as an experience somewhere on the bam because of their advantage of the range of travel at one gas station)
      Well, plus once already wrote a comment on this topic
      The main advantage of the BZHRD systems is the stealth and speed of movement, and now it will not be so simple with both of them. It is not clear under what types of trains (type of wagon for the purpose) to mask them earlier these were refrigerated trains. The standard refrigerator section included several wagons (it seems up to 6 wagons) of refrigerators and a wagon diesel power station (the staff also lived in it), longer trains were composed of several sections. This is an almost ideal model for camouflaging several wagons directly with missiles and wagon control and accommodation personnel. At this time, there are almost no refrigerated trains left; many depots involved in their repair are liquidated. The choice remains either freight trains or passenger. But there and there are problems. For freight, this is the length of standard semi-cars and covered cars, which is 12-15m (without automatic couplers). There are also longer ones up to 20m, but these are mainly tanks and open platforms. Passenger cars have a length of about 20 m (without coupler and buffer sets) the same as refrigerated cars, it would seem IT BUT. But all passenger trains move according to a schedule, they are actually compiled 2 times a year (summer and winter schedules), and besides, they are all equipped with the GLONAS system and are tracked in real time. In fact, on the FPK website you can find out the position of any composition. So the appearance of the passenger train moving outside the schedule that does not stop at the stations and does not appear in the system will immediately attract attention. Of course it would be interesting to disguise by analogy with Club-K, but the length of a 40-foot container is only 12m.
      In general, it seems to me that if you recreate them then in a slightly different form. A mobile long-range anti-aircraft missile defense system with an intercept range of 500-2000 km and the ability to strike at ground targets (well, like now, after all, many anti-aircraft missiles can do this). And as an option, the ability to install tactical warheads to combat maneuvering targets (honestly, we just put them there for that). In this situation, this is probably a less adequate way to circumvent the ban on medium-range missiles. In fact, in fact, in Poland, etc. ABM is the fastest way for Americans to set up for this. Although this is only my opinion, I could be wrong.
  9. Alex von Dorn
    Alex von Dorn 1 June 2016 07: 56 New
    +2
    Let the "partners" scratch themselves, rustle with dollars ... You look more likely to bend over.
  10. Moore
    Moore 1 June 2016 08: 05 New
    +9
    In service with one BZHRK there will be not one, but 6 missiles. And one train will be equated to the regiment.

    Well, let’s assume that before there was not one, but three, and one "train" was already equated to a regiment.
    Three (and even two) powerful locomotives are likely to replace one.

    Were three locomotives needed only for traction? They were pulling the "train" into a scattered battle formation - how will one, even a super-powerful gas turbine locomotive, cope with this?
  11. 31rus2
    31rus2 1 June 2016 08: 12 New
    +6
    dear ones, the latter personally saw in 2005, he didn’t have more, but about infrastructure, it’s not true, everything is fine here, I agree about the locomotive, I don’t need any special one, I need the usual 2TE-116s, more than enough, I need experimenting with electric locomotives in Central Russia, but in general it would be gorgeous a train with a mobile pu, reached a point, unload and look for it in fields, forests (fantasies), thanks to the author, I learned a lot
    1. denvar555
      denvar555 1 June 2016 08: 19 New
      +5
      Electric locomotives - definitely not! Dependence on a contact network that is easily damaged in the bud will kill the whole project + electrification of Russian Railways is not 100%, but on some roads 50-60%.
      There is no infrastructure either, it was destroyed along with the complexes.
      1. Amurets
        Amurets 1 June 2016 09: 34 New
        +5
        Quote: denvar555
        Electric locomotives - definitely not! Dependence on a contact network that is easily damaged in the bud will kill the whole project + electrification of Russian Railways is not 100%, but on some roads 50-60%.
        There is no infrastructure either, it was destroyed along with the complexes.

        I won’t talk about infrastructure, and so everything is clear. Electric locomotives? We not only do not have all the railways electrified, but also different current systems: alternating and constant. But the locomotive we get is only one 2TE-70. This is the only freight locomotive produced in the Russian Federation. Take the locomotives of the Voroshilovgrad (Lugansk) plant is not it makes sense. Here you need to look forward, it is not known how the situation in LDNR develops. There is no need to take risks. http://www.kolomnadiesel.com/productions/locomotive/diesel_lo
        comotive /
        2te70 / This is a link to a diesel locomotive. Moreover, the diesel generator set of the diesel locomotive is well-developed. I would not be in a hurry with a gas turbine locomotive, I need to gain operational experience, since serial and experimental products differ day and night.
      2. Berkut752
        Berkut752 1 June 2016 13: 12 New
        +2
        First, you didn't read the article carefully. The author "suggested" as an alternative:

        "Alternatively, the GT1-001 gas turbine locomotive (a locomotive with a gas turbine engine). It uses an electric transmission: a gas turbine engine that runs on liquefied natural gas is connected to a generator, and the current generated by the latter is supplied to electric motors, which drive the locomotive. "

        But he probably is not aware that such a layout has existed for a long time and has proven itself perfectly, say in shipbuilding.
        Secondly, "Rubezh" is already being supplied to the troops. Read the news from the last two months.
        1. Amurets
          Amurets 1 June 2016 16: 48 New
          +4
          Quote: Berkut752
          First, you didn't read the article carefully. The author "suggested" as an alternative:

          I carefully read the article. Moreover, I have worked for more than ten years in the locomotive depot and on diesel and electric locomotives. The novelty here is not in the line-up, but in the fuel. Before that, LNG was not used in locomotive building. We do not need steam locomotives, so we take V.A. Rakov:! Locomotives of domestic railways 1956-1975. "This book already contains the first gas turbine locomotives, just like in the article. Their advantages and disadvantages are given. And then gas turbine locomotives disappear from the catalogs of traction rolling stock right up to 2006. At Voronezh locomotive repair plant, on the basis of the body of the VL-15 electric locomotive, 2 experimental gas turbine locomotives are being built, so they are immediately sent to the army under the BZHRK? The author wrote interestingly about the train itself, but in some places there are inaccuracies, but this is not critical.
      3. 31rus2
        31rus2 1 June 2016 15: 11 New
        0
        Dear, about the infrastructure, once again you are wrong, if you noticed I indicated exactly Central Russia, here the electrification of the railway is large and the fleet of diesel locomotives is large, besides, the rocket train itself will not necessarily operate from the "advanced", but rather from depths
        1. denvar555
          denvar555 1 June 2016 17: 20 New
          0
          I had in mind the infrastructure for servicing special trains.
          And the point is to hide it in the outback. It must go all over the network, otherwise it is easy to detect the treatment ground and destroy it.
          Ps probably still electrification?
      4. 31rus2
        31rus2 1 June 2016 15: 11 New
        0
        Dear, about the infrastructure, once again you are wrong, if you noticed I indicated exactly Central Russia, here the electrification of the railway is large and the fleet of diesel locomotives is large, besides, the rocket train itself will not necessarily operate from the "advanced", but rather from depths
  12. Shadowcat
    Shadowcat 1 June 2016 08: 22 New
    0
    It is necessary at the same time to organize the supply of brown pants overhang. I think a couple of compounds immediately pay back;)
  13. Engineer
    Engineer 1 June 2016 08: 22 New
    +4
    The RS-26 missile system, aka Yars-M, aka Avangard, aka Boundary. In the modification specifically for BZHRK it will be "Frontier".

    Where does infa come from? I read that development began on the basis of Yars RS-24. The milestone is quite different in terms of weight and size parameters, because it is simply impossible to replace one missile with another without a major change in design. This is not a mine, but a car. There is no official information on the complex, so you can’t say that it will be like this. But even if it is based on the RS-26, it still does not reach Molodets, which is sad.
    "Frontier" is equipped with hypersonic maneuvering warheads to break even promising missile defense systems. According to experts, to defeat a PC-26 hypersonic maneuvering warhead, at least 50 SM-3 anti-missiles are needed (hello, PRO!).

    Again fictions, because not having data on the performance characteristics of the rocket, only "experts" can say this.
    1. denvar555
      denvar555 1 June 2016 08: 45 New
      -22
      "Experts" only want us to have THIS, without thinking about the list of difficulties and problems that Soviet designers once solved.
      Most likely, the Barguzin project will collapse at the design stage, as happened with an attempt to resume production of the TU-160, when it suddenly turned out that in 25 years after the collapse of the alliance, "technologies have already been irretrievably lost." God forbid if I'm wrong!
      1. Moore
        Moore 1 June 2016 10: 20 New
        15
        Quote: denvar555
        Most likely, the Barguzin project will collapse at the design stage, as happened with an attempt to resume production of TU-160

        1. Actually, the stage of preliminary design for "Barguzin" has already been completed and the people have moved on to the next stage - the development of units, which resulted in a message about the beginning of throw tests this fall. What does this mean? At least that by the fall there will be some version of the launcher in the hardware.
        2. Regarding the "attempt" with the TU-160. Nice here:
        http://gelio.livejournal.com/215362.html
        3. The minuses are not mine.
        1. denvar555
          denvar555 1 June 2016 10: 55 New
          +4
          Good article.
          The Tu-160 is undeniably the best in its class.
          But the problem is not how to resume its production, but how not to produce people who want to play hands and ask for loot. An example is the Vostochny cosmodrome.
          Ps I don't care about the cons. Most people need to look at things soberly and really assess the situation in the world and in the country. And to write that how cool it is when we have it all and how the Americans will justify ... they will be frightened at least stupidly.
          1. Bramb
            Bramb 1 June 2016 15: 29 New
            +4
            Are you looking at things soberly?
            He blurted out stupidity about the TU-160, drew his forecasts about Barguzin here - and you rejoice. Like, a patriot critical of thinking?
            You don’t know any belmes - pierced twice at once. But at the same time "sober-minded". You carry nonsense and, like galloping neighbors from a crazy country, mark everything around you with brown substance!
            1. denvar555
              denvar555 1 June 2016 16: 59 New
              +1
              Well, when will the vaunted TU-160 of a new construction appear ??? In the 20 ... 50 year? And at whose expense? Another pension reform?
              How many planes have arrived at the Russian Air Force over the past 5 years and what are these models? We sell more than we transfer to our troops abroad.
              As for "Barguzin" I know no more than you do. Apart from the vague pictures, the MO did not say how IT would look and work. Maybe that's right.
              But I know firsthand the work in Russian Railways. In the existing realities of work, when 98% of cars travel privately through the network, it will be impossible to hide the train.
              And dream - dream !!!
              1. NEXUS
                NEXUS 1 June 2016 17: 51 New
                +6
                Quote: denvar555
                Well, when will the vaunted TU-160 of a new construction appear ??? In the 20 ... 50 year? And at whose expense?

                Mattresses will be sealed. laughing
                Quote: denvar555
                How many planes have arrived at the Russian Air Force over the past 5 years and what are these models?

                Су-34,СУ-35С,СУ-30СМ,ТУ-95МСМ,ТУ-22М3,МИГ-29СМТ,ТУ-160М...Хватит?
                Quote: denvar555
                As for "Barguzin" I know no more than you do.

                If you don’t know why, then say that the project is a failure?
                Quote: denvar555
                it will be impossible to hide the composition

                Do you know how the BARZ Barguzin will look?
              2. Dart2027
                Dart2027 1 June 2016 22: 29 New
                0
                Quote: denvar555
                And dream - dream !!!

                We were born to make a fairy tale come true.
      2. The comment was deleted.
      3. NEXUS
        NEXUS 1 June 2016 15: 41 New
        +5
        Quote: denvar555
        Most likely, the Barguzin project will be bent at the design stage,

        Is this a fright then? The BZHRK Barguzin project is a priority for the country and there are no preconditions for curtailing this project. And your fantasies do not really fit in with reality.
        Quote: denvar555
        as happened with the attempt to resume production of the TU-160, when it suddenly turned out that in 25 years after the collapse of the union, "the technologies have already been irretrievably lost."

        Oh how. Directly irrevocably. laughing Did you understand what you’ve scratched yourself? Are you already developing a new engine for TU-160M2, electronics, etc. ... what arguments do you have in favor of your thesis? Or just blundered without even bothering to familiarize yourself with this topic?
        1. denvar555
          denvar555 1 June 2016 17: 13 New
          -7
          These are not my words, but military "experts" who expressed themselves in this way when discussing the topic of resuming aircraft production at the Kazan aircraft plant.
          In the previous article about the TU-160 there is also no specifics:
          http://topwar.ru/page,1,2,74828-vozobnovlenie-stroitelstva-tu-160-zadachi-i-prob
          lemy.html
          But the fact remains that what was built in the Land of Soviets with the help of tens and hundreds of related enterprises will be difficult to renew in the realities of Russia.
          1. NEXUS
            NEXUS 1 June 2016 17: 56 New
            +4
            Quote: denvar555
            These are not my words, but military "experts" who expressed themselves in this way when discussing the topic of resuming aircraft production at the Kazan aircraft plant.

            What kind of military experts? Ours? If ours, then these are not experts but balabol, but if they’re Western, then believe them further.
            Quote: denvar555
            In the previous article about the TU-160 there is also no specifics:

            And do you think in the internet and the media should be all the information on the work in this topic?
            Quote: denvar555
            But the fact remains that what was built in the Land of Soviets with the help of tens and hundreds of related enterprises will be difficult to renew in the realities of Russia.

            It’s difficult, but possible. If you have all the documentation, technology and normal financing. And since the TU-160M2 is a priority project that is directly related to the PAK DA project, its implementation is a priori mandatory.
      4. Odysseus
        Odysseus 1 June 2016 19: 38 New
        0
        Quote: denvar555
        Most likely, the Barguzin project will collapse at the design stage, as happened with an attempt to resume production of the TU-160, when it suddenly turned out that in 25 years after the collapse of the union, "the technologies have already been irretrievably lost."

        As for Barguzin, I don’t know, this is for rocket men, but you are wrong about the Tu-160.
        It is difficult to resume production, but it is possible. Yes, all this time of "market reforms" we have degraded instead of developing, but there are problems (especially with regard to engines), but there will be a product.
        When? Probably they will go to combat units around 2020 or a little later.
        PS I agree with the private railways of Russian Railways, this is a problem. I would suggest nationalizing the industry smile
  14. Taygerus
    Taygerus 1 June 2016 08: 29 New
    +2
    a very, very necessary argument for NATO would be faster in the troops on duty
  15. Azzi
    Azzi 1 June 2016 08: 34 New
    +3
    It’s a pity not to shove the container, mobility and secrecy would increase significantly.
    1. denvar555
      denvar555 1 June 2016 08: 40 New
      +4
      Such a project was also considered, but in addition to the control room, there’s still a lot of stuff that you won’t stuff into the container (security, communication systems, autonomous energy sources, etc.).
    2. Shadowcat
      Shadowcat 1 June 2016 09: 34 New
      +1
      Club-K. Of course this is not the RS-26, but also not bad, especially with a set of options for installed weapons, you can shoot at about 300 km.
      Mobility and stealth included)
      1. Corsair
        Corsair 1 June 2016 17: 00 New
        0
        Quote: ShadowCat
        Club-K. Of course this is not the RS-26, but also not bad, especially with a set of options for installed weapons, you can shoot at about 300 km.
        Mobility and stealth included)

        Then, in addition to Barguzinov, we can also design normal trains with CD in wagons, let them go there, the main trains can be safely waggoned in cars 30-50, and this is more than a missile boat, well, you can shoot a couple of thousand kilometers at once in one gulp.
  16. Kenneth
    Kenneth 1 June 2016 08: 38 New
    0
    And what's the difference for the US missile defense is a complex or mine. Missile Parameters Are Important
    1. NEXUS
      NEXUS 1 June 2016 09: 18 New
      +4
      Quote: Kenneth
      And what's the difference for the US missile defense is a complex or mine.

      A very important characteristic of the BZHRK is mobility, which makes it very difficult for the adversary to track the movement of these trains.
      1. Kenneth
        Kenneth 1 June 2016 11: 45 New
        -8
        The essence of missile defense is that you do not need to track anything. The start is fixed and the missile is destroyed before the separation of warheads. Ideally, before going into space. That is, with a station in Romania they’ll be buried on the trains of our missiles or on bicycles.
        1. Corsair
          Corsair 1 June 2016 18: 37 New
          +1
          Quote: Kenneth
          The essence of missile defense is that you do not need to track anything. The start is fixed and the missile is destroyed before the separation of warheads. Ideally, before going into space. That is, with a station in Romania they’ll be buried on the trains of our missiles or on bicycles.

          Do you think their anti-missiles are so fast that they fly to a take-off rocket beyond the Urals or in Siberia until it goes into space? It does not seem that ballistic missiles are gaining height for half an hour, well, you can also shoot down a missile defense in case of something.
          1. Kenneth
            Kenneth 1 June 2016 20: 39 New
            -2
            This is not what I suppose. These are our experts who believe that poplars are very vulnerable, but there are no yars yet.
            But thousands of standards managed by Aegis can already knock out a significant part of the spruce not at the start, then in space. And the missile defense system is steadily and consistently developing. Unfortunately.
            1. NEXUS
              NEXUS 1 June 2016 20: 49 New
              +2
              Quote: Kenneth
              But thousands of standards managed by Aegis can already knock out a significant part of the spruce not at the start, then in space.

              The Standard-3 missile can only shoot down ICBMs in the booster section. However, how to deal with the interception of the same Poplar is a big question.
              Quote: Kenneth
              yars not yet

              The RS-24 is already in service, and as I understand it, after all the tests and refinements, the RS-26 Frontier will soon be deployed in the troops on mobile platforms in the future.
            2. kuz363
              kuz363 1 June 2016 21: 48 New
              0
              By the way, solid fuel Poplars are also immune from missile defense, because they gain speed very quickly, unlike liquid rockets. It was a tricky stuffing of Americans - to force Russia to abandon powerful missiles such as Voivod and spend money and effort on Poplars with just one head.
              1. NEXUS
                NEXUS 1 June 2016 21: 52 New
                +1
                Quote: kuz363
                It was a tricky stuffing of Americans - to force Russia to abandon powerful missiles such as Voevoda

                Nonsense ... The voivode has been on duty since the 70s and has undergone more than one modernization. And the service life of the missiles was extended three times ... the last time until 2020. Therefore, a replacement in the form of Sarmat is being developed.
              2. pokermen
                pokermen 3 June 2016 02: 32 New
                -1
                5 years ago, he served in the Strategic Missile Forces and even then the regiment said that the Americans had learned to shoot down ordinary Poplar quite confidently, the only thing that saved ... we had them smile
                1. master.30.ru
                  master.30.ru 3 June 2016 13: 00 New
                  +1
                  And how many poplars were shot down ????
            3. alexej123
              alexej123 2 June 2016 09: 15 New
              +1
              Throw a link, pliz, for the available "thousands of" Standards ", where does the infa come from?
          2. master.30.ru
            master.30.ru 3 June 2016 12: 57 New
            +1
            ROCKET PRO has a radius of 600 kilometers. A LAUNCH made outside the Urals. Even if they’re tracked, they won’t be able to do anything.
        2. Kenneth
          Kenneth 1 June 2016 20: 42 New
          +1
          I wonder what kind of ostriches are minus. This damn sad truth is that with the development of missile defense it has become indifferent to which half-station missiles start. And no burial of heads in the sand will not change this fact.
          1. Dart2027
            Dart2027 1 June 2016 22: 31 New
            0
            Quote: Kenneth
            This damn sad truth is that with the development of missile defense

            This will be news for you, but offensive weapons are also being improved.
          2. grandson of the hero
            grandson of the hero 2 June 2016 09: 29 New
            0
            Read, dear Kenneth, carefully the article, study relevant topics, materiel. So the minuses will decrease. Verbose fabrications are not welcome here.
        3. kuz363
          kuz363 1 June 2016 21: 44 New
          0
          Prospective US missile defense systems in Europe cover a range of only 5000 km, which means to the Urals. Siberia is out of reach.
        4. SMikhalych
          SMikhalych 1 June 2016 22: 44 New
          +4
          Quote: Kenneth
          The essence of missile defense is that you do not need to track anything. The start is fixed and the missile is destroyed before the separation of warheads. Ideally, before going into space. That is, with a station in Romania they’ll be buried on the trains of our missiles or on bicycles.

          The essence of the launch with the BZHRK is that the rocket has a so-called mortar launch, i.e. it is first pushed out of the starting housing and only then the main engine is turned on. Therefore, to fix such a start is very, very difficult. This is the first. The second is that a start is possible from anywhere in the vast expanses of Russia. Horseradish you will come across companions for such an event. Third - this type of missile is very difficult to detect in the active phase of flight. According to experts, the elimination of one such missile will require up to 50 anti-missiles, which still need not only to start, but also reach the missile launched from where it is not clear where from the missile launcher. And then it does not hang and wait, it will calmly go out into space and ... if separation of warheads that fly on hypersound and even on a changing trajectory occurs, I strongly doubt that the so-called probable enemy has such elements of the system ABM, which will prevent the inevitable. request
          So, while the station in Romania tries to squeak once, it will be quietly covered like a bull, a sheep, or Iskander, or ... well, in general, what will turn up under the button bully
          In general, before engaging in speculation, you need to include brains ... ideally hi
          1. master.30.ru
            master.30.ru 3 June 2016 13: 06 New
            0
            When we tested BZHRK ALWAYS brought SIGNAL A. In which the time was indicated when there is no satellite above the head.
    2. Tines
      Tines 2 June 2016 06: 35 New
      0
      BZHRK is not a means of overcoming missile defense, they are created to minimize losses from a preventive strike.
      1. SMikhalych
        SMikhalych 2 June 2016 11: 23 New
        0
        Quote: Tines
        BJRK is not a means to overcome missile defense, they are created to minimize losses from a preemptive strike.

        fool Did he even understand what he wrote?
        How can a so-called ghost train equipped with strategic missiles (!) Of the intercontinental class can MINIMIZE losses from a preemptive strike?
        Do not confuse missile defense, which, in fact, serves to minimize the achievement of targets by missiles of the likely enemy and, accordingly, minimize losses, with strike means, which under the existing military doctrine are called MEANS OF CONTAINMENT. So that God forbid, no one and no ... am
        1. Tines
          Tines 2 June 2016 20: 47 New
          0
          Perhaps I put it unsuccessfully. This meant the complex itself, and not the missiles installed on it. In the sense of BZHRK reduces the likelihood of detection and destruction of missiles, which, in themselves, of course, are striking means.
  17. batonow44
    batonow44 1 June 2016 08: 39 New
    +1
    Who cares - here from the forum about the BZHRK, in my opinion, in some detail ...
    http://yasnay.ru/forum/11-401-1
    There is also about secrecy.
    Happened to be here:
    http://wikimapia.org/#lang=ru&lat=57.846578&lon=41.237354&z=14&m=b
    Some cars still stand ...
  18. AKsvlad047
    AKsvlad047 1 June 2016 08: 45 New
    +2
    Such complexes are vital for Russia with our colossal territory! Be sure to put them into service !!!
    1. Kenneth
      Kenneth 1 June 2016 11: 50 New
      0
      Russia urgently needs to clean up corruption and economic development. If possible, the independence of the courts and the lack of bias in the media. And normal roads if it talks about the territory.
  19. denvar555
    denvar555 1 June 2016 08: 50 New
    +7
    To assess the scale of the lost, it is enough to familiarize yourself with one of the former points of deployment of the BZHRK
    http://navoine.info/stanciya-bershet-baza-bjrk-stolyarenko.html
  20. volodya
    volodya 1 June 2016 09: 09 New
    +3
    There were good trains. Thank you Gorbachev and Yeltsin, now you have to restore.
    1. NEXUS
      NEXUS 1 June 2016 09: 20 New
      +5
      Quote: volodya
      There were good trains. Thank you Gorbachev and Yeltsin, now you have to restore.

      It is important that we returned to the BZHRK concept. And we will see what rocket there will be YRS-M or Rubezh.
    2. kuz363
      kuz363 1 June 2016 21: 49 New
      +2
      Thanks also to Putin, it’s already when he cut the BZHRK
      1. NEXUS
        NEXUS 1 June 2016 21: 57 New
        +2
        Quote: kuz363
        Thanks also to Putin, it’s already when he cut the BZHRK

        Because we complied with the agreements, unlike mattresses ... but under Putin, the BZHRK was also returned to duty.
  21. batonow44
    batonow44 1 June 2016 09: 22 New
    +1
    Quote: denvar555
    To assess the scale of the lost, it is enough to familiarize yourself with one of the former points of deployment of the BZHRK
    http://navoine.info/stanciya-bershet-baza-bjrk-stolyarenko.html

    The second photo from the beginning in the article and the fifth photo by Eugene Stolyarenko ...

    And this is in our Kostroma:

    http://zhigane.livejournal.com/19494.html
  22. Professor
    Professor 1 June 2016 09: 32 New
    -13
    And they coped with the task, leaving behind a weapon that they could not create in the USA.

    Did the Americans try? Or does the author doubt the technological ability of the bourgeois to place the same Trident on railway platforms?



    In general, the legend says that the idea of ​​deploying ICBMs on railway platforms belongs precisely to the Americans who threw it to the KGB ...

    IMHO one nuclear submarine is much more dangerous than the division of Well done. hi
    1. Shadowcat
      Shadowcat 1 June 2016 09: 38 New
      10
      They tried. But the problem was where it was not expected - Private Property.
      Google dear professor.
      1. Professor
        Professor 1 June 2016 10: 00 New
        -7
        Quote: ShadowCat
        They tried. But the problem was where it was not expected - Private Property.

        Private property did not stand in the way of the development of this project. The prototype of the train with the model of the rocket drove along the tracks without problems. The real rocket was surpassed by rail to 5500 850 miles. The train did not receive development due to the lack of expediency.
        The Deseret News - Mar 21, 1961
        https://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=336&dat=19610321&id=gLdOAAAAIBAJ&sjid=dkk


        DAAAAIBAJ & pg = 2757,4001375 & hl = en

        The Deseret News - Jul 21, 1962
        https://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=336&dat=19620721&id=cYhaAAAAIBAJ&sjid=_0k


        DAAAAIBAJ & pg = 5743,4077988 & hl = en
        1. Shadowcat
          Shadowcat 1 June 2016 10: 39 New
          +8
          Americans are forever unavailable for what they cannot do.

          Quote: Professor
          The real rocket was surpassed by 5500 850 miles by rail

          So what? I also drove a lot of things on sleds, but this does not say that I was engaged in freight transportation.
          In addition to "rolling" the rocket (by the way, you need to take into account that the rails have a certain maximum load parameter. We just replaced the rails, which is why now the railway can carry heavier loads. The Yankee railway is in private hands and it is more difficult to do it) it still needs run, and this is where the problem arises. How not to threaten a wagon with a combat crew plus a railway track.
          1. Professor
            Professor 1 June 2016 12: 13 New
            -8
            Quote: ShadowCat
            Ну и что?

            And nothing. No private owner was indignant and no private property became an obstacle.

            Quote: ShadowCat
            In addition to "rolling" the rocket (by the way, you need to take into account that the rails have a certain maximum load parameter.

            We drove a real rocket and no problems, especially since the burden (or how it is right) among the bourgeois judging by the photo is not a problem. However, as are the dimensions.

            Quote: ShadowCat
            The Yankees have railway in private hands and this is more difficult to do) it still needs to be launched, and here the problem arises. How not to threaten a wagon with combat crew plus a railway track.

            Again. They drove a real rocket on the railway and not a single private owner sued. What is the problem?

            Quote: denvar555
            Absolutely right.

            Not just true, but also "absolutely right"? Apparently you have at hand a document confirming this and you are only waiting to be asked to show it? I ask, I even beg to show it to us. Pliz, pliz, pliz.
        2. denvar555
          denvar555 1 June 2016 10: 43 New
          -2
          They simply could not do it or it turned out to be too expensive.
        3. msm
          msm 2 June 2016 12: 48 New
          +1
          I agree that the Amers have a huge fleet and bases around the perimeter of Russia. They needless such trains on their territory.
      2. Amurets
        Amurets 1 June 2016 10: 12 New
        +2
        Quote: ShadowCat
        They tried. But the problem was where it was not expected - Private Property.
        Google dear professor.

        I agree with you. In the book "Strategic" Well done "by VS Mikhailov there is also a photo of the American MHRK" MX "and the reasons why this complex did not go into service with the US SAC.
        Quote: Professor
        In general, the legend says that the idea of ​​deploying ICBMs on railway platforms belongs precisely to the Americans who threw it to the KGB ...

        Professor: You are right that this is a legend, but the roots of this legend must be sought in railway artillery, the idea came from there to put rocket launchers on heavy-duty railway conveyors.
        1. Shadowcat
          Shadowcat 1 June 2016 10: 41 New
          +1
          Quote: Amurets
          must be sought in railway artillery

          Rather, in our love of armored trains;)
          1. Amurets
            Amurets 1 June 2016 11: 16 New
            +3
            Quote: ShadowCat
            Rather, in our love of armored trains;)

            Love for armored trains is one thing, but urgent strengthening of the defense of the coast of our seas is another. In the 20s, A.G. Dukelsky, the designer of the Metal Plant, proposed to put large-caliber artillery on specially designed railway transporters. This is how the TM-1- artillery systems were created. 14; TM-2-12; TM-3-12; One link: VS Mikhailov. Strategic "Well done". Amirkhanov: "Sea guns on the railroad." Bragin: "Guns on the rails. Well and Shirokorad" The time of the big guns. "
            1. Shadowcat
              Shadowcat 1 June 2016 11: 56 New
              0
              Wow, what a cool kid. Sales did not know about this.
              Thank you! good soldier
      3. denvar555
        denvar555 1 June 2016 10: 41 New
        -3
        Absolutely right. Private property has ruined them, it will ruin our entire project.
    2. Rus2012
      Rus2012 1 June 2016 13: 07 New
      +3
      Quote: Professor
      In general, the legend says that the idea of ​​deploying ICBMs on railway platforms belongs precisely to the Americans who threw it to the KGB ...

      IMHO one nuclear submarine is much more dangerous than the division of Well done.

      ... and so much so that the Wehrmacht began to design "rocket trains". Did the Soviets just develop the idea?

      And there are doubts about the Premier League ...
      1. Professor
        Professor 1 June 2016 13: 14 New
        -8
        Quote: Rus2012
        ..and so much that the Wehrmacht began to design "rocket trains". Did the Soviets just develop the idea?

        Well? request

        It is believed that after the war, the achievements of Nazi Germany came to the Americans. There is even a version that US intelligence specifically organized a leak of information about the German nuclear train project and its development in the United States. The goal was to draw the USSR into a very expensive and complex project and thereby undermine the economic potential of the Soviets. But, as you know, the Americans did not succeed in creating their own BZHRK, but here we have such a military railway missile system that soon appeared.
        A new "rocket train" will appear in Russia
        1. Rus2012
          Rus2012 1 June 2016 13: 32 New
          +6
          Quote: Professor
          The goal was to draw the USSR into a very expensive and complex project and thereby undermine the economic potential of the Soviets.

          BZHRK was not expensive and expensive. Transport BZHRK occupied only a fraction of the total military traffic.
          And as for the alteration, arrangement of railway, so it only went to the benefit of the national economy:
          - heavy and extra-heavy trains and multi-axle twin cars appeared,
          - on the roads, respectively, lay "heavy rails" of the R-75 type,
          - new roads were built, including BAM, "local BAMs", bridges and tunnels ...

          By the way, PGRK also contributed to the emergence of new networks of roads of different classes, bridges, crossings and other things.
          T.ch. not everything is so costly and obvious ...
          1. Professor
            Professor 1 June 2016 13: 54 New
            -1
            Quote: Rus2012
            T.ch. not everything is so costly and obvious ...

            Am I about it? I’m talking about the history of its occurrence, allegedly problems with private property and the effectiveness of the complex compared to nuclear submarines.

            Quote: Rus2012
            ... by the way, what about "Calibers" in sea containers and during railway transportation?

            I am against it because it contradicts the Geneva Convention prohibiting the disguise of military facilities as civilian. However, purely technically it is interesting.

            Quote: Rus2012
            3,14ndos will continue to move the ABM - they will get a headache from this side too:

            For the 10000000th time, their missile defense cannot harm Russia in any way. Try to learn it.
            1. Rus2012
              Rus2012 1 June 2016 15: 03 New
              +5
              Quote: Professor
              this is contrary to the Geneva Convention prohibiting the disguise of military installations as civilian.

              ... oh?
              Where is that fine line distinguishing a civilian object from a military one:
              - transportation of military goods is not marked by external observation. The degree of readiness for the use of military cargo is also not specified.
              - reduction of stealth technologies to the "invisibility of weapons", incl. what does it refer to?
              -It is known that all civilian objects of the Russian Federation such as nuclear power plants, hydroelectric power stations, nodal depots - are the targets of a nuclear strike by the Yankees. By the way, in Yugoslavia they destroyed as a matter of priority almost all the significant objects - bridges, thermal power plants, oil storage facilities, is that not a crime?

              3,14Indos often shoot civilian columns, school-hospitals, kindergartens - is that what you think? Not a crime?
              1. Professor
                Professor 1 June 2016 15: 08 New
                -9
                Quote: Rus2012
                ... oh?

                Yeah. You cannot disguise a battle cruiser as a floating hospital, a tank as a school bus, and an ICBM launcher as a passenger train.

                Quote: Rus2012
                3,14Indos often shoot civilian columns, school-hospitals, kindergartens - is that what you think? Not a crime?

                And they also lynch blacks. I was naive to think that the article was about BZHRK, but it turns out to be about inferiority complexes and objects of envy ("3,14ndosy", "geyeropop").

                All the best to you.hi
                1. Rus2012
                  Rus2012 1 June 2016 17: 23 New
                  +5
                  Quote: Professor
                  Yeah. You cannot disguise a battle cruiser as a floating hospital, a tank as a school bus, and an ICBM launcher as a passenger train.

                  ... and who suggested we do this?

                  But behind the cordon all the time -
                  The adaptive camouflage system from the British company BAE Systems disguises military equipment in the infrared range. Special screens not only turn the equipment into invisibility on the thermal imager screen, but can also imitate civilian objects. For example, turn a tank into a bus.



                  If you use this system to turn a tank into something that looks like a civilian vehicle on enemy radars, this again does not fit into the rules of war established by the Geneva Convention

                  In the photo "An example of text output on board"
                  1. Professor
                    Professor 1 June 2016 18: 21 New
                    -7
                    Quote: Rus2012
                    ..and who suggested we do this?

                    For example, those who hide ICBMs in the "passenger train".

                    Quote: Rus2012
                    but can also imitate civilian objects

                    Or they may not imitate. So far, such an imitation has not been implemented in practice.

                    Quote: Rus2012
                    If you use this system to turn a tank into something that looks like a civilian vehicle on enemy radars, this again does not fit into the rules of war established by the Geneva Convention

                    And therefore it remains only in theory.

                    Quote: Army 2
                    Indeed, it is impossible to disguise a cruiser as a hospital ship. But, if you carefully read the Geneva Conventions and additional protocols to them, you will see that it is generally impossible to fight.

                    We will cancel the conventions, so they prevent us from fighting, or will we stick to them?

                    Quote: Army 2
                    By the way, the Israel Defense Forces in terms of disguise and imitation ahead of the rest.

                    I have never seen a tank in the Tsakhal disguise as a bus (although technically they can do it) or fighters on the battlefield were transported in ambulances. Maybe you saw this? Share it.
                2. Makarov
                  Makarov 1 June 2016 19: 22 New
                  +1
                  a tank for a school bus? I want to see ... and the laws of the Sea do not apply to the laws of Land, so this is an unfortunate example ... and here's why: is a cargo plane a civilian or military facility? Is the moving train with wagons a civilian or military facility? Is the malware a civilian or military target? But it is clear where our "partners" will persuade diplomats when this topic becomes dangerous for them. Thanks.
                  1. Professor
                    Professor 2 June 2016 07: 15 New
                    0
                    Quote: Makarov
                    a tank for a school bus? I want to see ... and the laws of the Sea do not apply to the laws of Land, so this is an unfortunate example ... and here's why: is a cargo plane a civilian or military facility? Is the moving train with wagons a civilian or military facility? Is the malware a civilian or military target? But it is clear where our "partners" will persuade diplomats when this topic becomes dangerous for them. Thanks.

                    The Hague Trebunal will answer all your questions. If anything...

                    Quote: Svidetel 45
                    All that is good for the security of my country and people is legal and acceptable, and you went with your ingenious rules for suckers as far as possible.

                    Experiments on prisoners and children? Let women and children of the enemy in front of their troops as a human shield? If this is good for the security of your country and people, is that legal and acceptable?

                    Quote: Svidetel 45
                    So is he. professor mows down a fool, does not understand how missile defense can not harm Russia in the possibility of retaliating

                    This is not understood not only by me, but by anyone who held the globe in their hands.

                    Quote: kuz363
                    It's time to put one device silently at the Geneva Conventions

                    Even the Hitlerites did not completely "silently put one device on the Geneva Conventions", and did you decide to put it on? Oh well.

                    Quote: Corsair
                    And if they do not push missile defense there? Yes, even with YBCh God forbid.

                    And if grandmother will have grandfather's primary sexual characteristics? And if they hide their Tomahawks in 53-pound containers? And if ... And if ...
                    1. Ruslan67
                      Ruslan67 2 June 2016 07: 18 New
                      +4
                      Quote: Professor
                      The Hague Trebunal will answer all your questions. If anything...

                      Hence the conclusion, the first missile at the Hague Tribunal If that ...
                      The second to the Strasbourg court so that there are absolutely no illusions ...
                      1. Professor
                        Professor 2 June 2016 07: 28 New
                        0
                        Quote: Ruslan67
                        Hence the conclusion, the first missile at the Hague Tribunal If that ...
                        The second to the Strasbourg court so that there are absolutely no illusions ...

                        I understand how much these conventions, tribunals and all this international riffraff are annoying. She annoys me too. It got to the point that every division commander and brigade commander, and sometimes even a battalion commander in Tsakhal there is a legal adviser who "approves" or "disapproves" of every blow. And it is not uncommon for the commander to disapprove and cancel this blow. We do not live on a desert island. You already know the word sanction ...
                      2. Ruslan67
                        Ruslan67 2 June 2016 07: 38 New
                        +2
                        Quote: Professor
                        a legal advisor who "approves" or "disapproves" of each blow.

                        And were there any losses among them? bully
                        Quote: Professor
                        You already know the word of sanction ...

                        Well, as if on the side recourse Atalef will confirm yes And if it comes to serious things, then there’s no matter how abruptly it’s spitting. I’m not from hat throwing ... For the sake of pleasure, I’m ready to do without an Israeli strawberry laughing
                      3. Professor
                        Professor 2 June 2016 07: 44 New
                        +2
                        Quote: Ruslan67
                        And were there any losses among them?

                        EMNIP was not there. These bespectacles do not go on the attack.

                        Quote: Ruslan67
                        Well, as if on the side

                        But this is not necessary. Even the sale of drugs in your country fell to a record "military" level. Seeing people decided not to get sick ...

                        Although there were no real sanctions yet.

                        Quote: Ruslan67
                        For the pleasure of seeing a funnel at the scene of a human rights court, I’m ready to do without Israeli strawberries

                        It's easy to be bold in front of the keyboard.
                      4. Ruslan67
                        Ruslan67 2 June 2016 07: 51 New
                        +3
                        Quote: Professor
                        It's easy to be bold in front of the keyboard.

                        Well, why so immediately crying This is again to Sanka request Enlighten yes
                        Quote: Professor
                        Even the sale of drugs in your country fell to a record "military" level. Seeing people decided not to get sick ...

                        A neighbor works in a pharmacy. They didn’t fall ill. But they pressed the doctors very hard, they just stopped injecting buds and expensive imports. I know this on my own. Now they have to write out something before asking what? and offer a choice of ours or import
                        Quote: Professor
                        These bespectacles do not go on the attack.

                        And in the toilet, the ceilings do not fall a point?
                      5. Professor
                        Professor 2 June 2016 07: 57 New
                        0
                        Quote: Ruslan67
                        A neighbor works in a pharmacy. She didn’t fall.

                        In Russia, drug sales have declined significantly

                        Quote: Ruslan67
                        And in the toilet, the ceilings do not fall a point?

                        Not understood?
                      6. Ruslan67
                        Ruslan67 2 June 2016 08: 03 New
                        +4
                        Quote: Professor
                        Not understood?

                        Well, since they don’t go on the attack ... Losses can be non-combat bully but let's say ... related repeat
                        And as for the drugs in Russia, now they will again say that Peter And Moscow is not all, etc. But for a minute, 15 percent of the population of the country Yes, and statistics are crafty things. The neighbor’s pharmacy revenue is growing steadily. So we won’t argue. I'm not special
      2. Svidetel 45
        Svidetel 45 1 June 2016 20: 25 New
        +3
        All that is good for the security of my country and people is legal and acceptable, and you went with your ingenious rules for suckers as far as possible.
        1. Arr_rera
          Arr_rera 1 June 2016 22: 04 New
          0
          I support soldier
        2. Elijah
          Elijah 15 June 2016 09: 36 New
          +1
          Right! It’s not hell to listen to these US henchmen, they take the conversation aside and try to convince us that our homeland cannot be defended.
      3. Arr_rera
        Arr_rera 1 June 2016 22: 01 New
        0
        You protect "ours", we protect ours.
    3. Vadim237
      Vadim237 1 June 2016 17: 02 New
      +1
      They don’t have enough warheads to hit all our Strategic Missile Forces, Air Defense, Strategic Missile Forces objects — 1820 warheads are needed, and the United States has 1640 on constant duty — so civilian objects will have to be forgotten.
    4. Anton Valerevich
      Anton Valerevich 3 June 2016 18: 22 New
      +1
      So the Geneva Convention prohibits disguising military facilities as objects of the Red Cross mission, there is not a word about disguising as cargo ships and trains.
  23. faiver
    faiver 1 June 2016 16: 57 New
    +2
    those. how can this missile defense not harm Russia?
    1. Svidetel 45
      Svidetel 45 1 June 2016 22: 04 New
      +2
      So is he. professor mows down a fool, does not understand how missile defense can not harm Russia in the possibility of retaliating
  24. Corsair
    Corsair 1 June 2016 18: 48 New
    0
    Quote: Professor
    10000000th time, their missile defense cannot harm Russia in any way. Try to learn it.

    And if they do not push missile defense there? Yes, even with YBCh God forbid.
    Why don’t they put up a missile defense system in Iraq since such bright elves are encrypted against Iran or xs in Afghanistan? Closer to us, but marking the very borders.
  25. Svidetel 45
    Svidetel 45 1 June 2016 20: 21 New
    0
    You play the fool, professor, how it cannot be harmed, if this missile defense neutralizes our nuclear strike forces, then they will no doubt be tempted to strike first and feel safe if the military-political situation worsens.
  26. kuz363
    kuz363 1 June 2016 21: 52 New
    0
    It's time to put one device silently at the Geneva Conventions
  27. Arr_rera
    Arr_rera 1 June 2016 21: 59 New
    0
    You will learn this: to convert PU anti-missile systems for offensive ones is not a tricky business.
  28. Maaslo Sallonen
    Maaslo Sallonen 2 June 2016 05: 32 New
    0
    Let them give legal guarantees. Why not give? Because dual-use missile defense. Learn it.
  • Rus2012
    Rus2012 1 June 2016 13: 45 New
    +2
    Quote: Professor
    IMHO one nuclear submarine is much more dangerous than the division of Well done.

    ... by the way, what about "Calibers" in sea containers and during railway transportation? :)))))))))))))))))

    3,14ndos will continue to move the ABM - they will get a headache from this side too:
    - on the railway roads of Cuba, for example, and any other barges near the 12-mile zone of "tin".
    - and on roklad with raguli, which are being completed, and 2,5 thousand kilometers in radius, against Romanians and Psheks and other geyeropop,

    upon exit from the INF Treaty
  • JonnyT
    JonnyT 1 June 2016 15: 40 New
    +3
    The Americans simply "did not have enough brains" and patience. They were also strangled by a toad from the prospect of rebuilding the railway track and the rest of the infrastructure.
    “On the basis of the complex criterion“ efficiency / cost ”, railway and ground methods of basing missiles, MX and Midgetman, respectively, were proposed, with the further deployment of research and development work.2 It was noted that an experimental version of a combat railway missile system passed field tests at the Western Missile Range (AvB Vandenberg, California) until 1991. Sea trials were also carried out at the US railway range ..............
    At the same time, according to foreign experts, the production of a prototype BZHRK in the standard configuration and its comprehensive tests were not completed, and some design solutions turned out to be untenable. Later this was confirmed by the results of the work of Russian inspection teams at the Western Missile Range and other facilities of the US SNS. So, the first test launch of a missile from a railway launcher for technical reasons did not take place and was replaced by a throw test using a cargo model. In this regard, a solution to the problem of diverting the jet stream from the launch module when starting the main engine of the rocket after its ejection from the container is not visible. This could lead to the destruction of the launch car and the railway section. It is known that the MX rocket did not have evasion engines, since it was developed for a silo-based version. The definition of the composition, appearance and requirements for the facilities of the permanent basing points of rocket trains and railway infrastructure was discontinued at the stage of preliminary design. Combat patrol methods using an experienced BZHRK on a real railway network have not been worked out. It was not possible to create high-precision systems for navigation support of the complex and missile aiming when preparing launches from any suitable for this, including electrified, sections of the railways. It can be assumed that methods for removing the overhead wire before lifting the container with the rocket to the launch position have not been developed. Comprehensive resource and transport tests of the BZHRK were not carried out in various conditions, with the launch of combat patrols on real routes and the development of combat training tasks. The problems of creating a centralized control system for combat patrolling of the BZHRK on the railways, which, moreover, had a significant number of unmasking signs, have not been resolved. "
  • master.30.ru
    master.30.ru 3 June 2016 13: 10 New
    0
    The difference lies in the fact that we created BZHRK A S NO.
  • iouris
    iouris 1 June 2016 10: 28 New
    +3
    Many generations no longer simply understand what nuclear war is. If you test on the New Earth, then perhaps the rhetoric would change.
    Due to changes in the geopolitical situation and technological progress in the area of ​​missile defense, the only argument will soon become a land mine (s) deeply buried in the ground with a capacity of 50-100 mH.
  • Konstantin Yu
    Konstantin Yu 1 June 2016 10: 50 New
    +3
    For me this is: The forgotten old-key word is old, if you come back to something, then at another, at a higher level ... there must be a new "vishka" .... but is it? Or that one has not yet been fully disclosed?

    I think the military-industrial complex should pay no less attention not only to the number of retaliation, but also the creation of effective production and management, as a result of additional power to create breakthrough systems ... bent)))

    It’s easier: if you build a steam engine again, so that you can fly and give it to everyone .......
    1. denvar555
      denvar555 1 June 2016 10: 57 New
      +1
      The idea of ​​the BZHRK itself was once progressive and has not lost its relevance today. To complicate it so far would not be worth it.
  • Kulneff2009
    Kulneff2009 1 June 2016 11: 13 New
    0
    Those who doubt our peacefulness will drown in blood !!! For our mercy is merciless !!!
    1. master.30.ru
      master.30.ru 3 June 2016 13: 20 New
      0
      Sirloin steak with blood and crisp Ilovaisky or DEBALTSEVO. ON CHOICE AND ONLY FOR PREPARERS.
  • Editor
    Editor 1 June 2016 11: 29 New
    +2
    Quote: iouris
    the only argument will soon become a landmine (s) deeply buried in the ground with a capacity of 50-100 mH.


    better in the ocean, next to the tectonic fault ... - the tsunami will also wash American stables ... :) moreover, that's all.
  • cherkas.oe
    cherkas.oe 1 June 2016 11: 47 New
    +3
    The SHAFT needs to be wiggled faster so that the Barguzins are on duty on time. Then it will be possible to talk in a different way.
    1. Svidetel 45
      Svidetel 45 1 June 2016 22: 10 New
      0
      And in order to quickly, it is necessary to change the mood in society, to eradicate slackness, especially among the ruling elite, and not a country for a market economy, and the economy should work for the country, even if you have to turn it completely into a non-market, but a mobilization one, when it smells of fried. then not fat. but to live.
  • Crown
    Crown 1 June 2016 11: 57 New
    0
    "Barguzin" will be lighter and will not differ from civilian versions
  • dobrovchic
    dobrovchic 1 June 2016 13: 13 New
    +1
    Give Barguzin !!! good
  • alex71
    alex71 1 June 2016 14: 12 New
    +1
    Good, practical article.
    No secrets were given out (and it’s not necessary), but it’s written clearly not even so much for me (I know how much is allowed according to non-secret data), but even my wife understood and imbued ...
    So let's drink for two purposes:
    1. So that the BZHRK were in service with us,
    2. So that you do not have to apply them.
    and on the 3rd - so that without such a war.

    PS: I did not know that these were brothers - Utkin. Vladimir - who doesn't know him now, the Yuzhnoye design bureau (now the enemy, if at all remains), a worthy student of Yangel. Alexey Utkin is much less known, but, unfortunately, less. Two brothers and academics - it's still to look for similar cases.
    1. Amurets
      Amurets 1 June 2016 16: 07 New
      0
      Quote: alex71

      PS: I did not know that these were brothers - Utkin. Vladimir - who doesn't know him now, the Yuzhnoye design bureau (now the enemy, if at all remains), a worthy student of Yangel. Alexey Utkin is much less known, but, unfortunately, less. Two brothers and academics - it's still to look for similar cases.

      Look, I came across the book "Rockets and Spacecraft of the Yuzhnoye Design Bureau" on the Internet.
  • Danash I
    Danash I 1 June 2016 14: 14 New
    +1
    Recently, there was a link about 6 US seismic stations to control such trains under the OSVTK agreement. For me there was news, knowing about this in detail, please share. To remove a couple of unpleasant questions. hi
  • The comment was deleted.
  • The comment was deleted.
  • Army soldier2
    Army soldier2 1 June 2016 17: 01 New
    +7
    Quote: Professor
    Quote: Rus2012
    ... oh?

    Yeah. You can’t disguise a battle cruiser as a floating hospital.

    Dear Professor, allow me to note your manner of conducting the discussion. You constantly emphasize the incompetence of opponents. Maybe that's right. There is a legion of such in VO.
    But here you distorted the information.
    Indeed, it is impossible to disguise a cruiser as a hospital ship. But, if you carefully read the Geneva Conventions and additional protocols to them, you will see that it is generally impossible to fight.
    As for, in your words, the disguise of "a tank as a school bus, and an ICBM launcher as a passenger train," everything is not so simple. Masks are masking (concealing) and imitating. For example, a country house was made of plywood or canvas over a tank. This is the imitation mask. Imitating masks are provided by instructions in the armies of almost all states. By the way, the Israel Defense Forces are ahead of the rest of the planet in terms of camouflage and imitation. I'm sure you know that.
    1. pimen
      pimen 1 June 2016 19: 19 New
      0
      Quote: Professor
      Yeah. You cannot disguise a battle cruiser as a floating hospital, a tank as a school bus, and an ICBM launcher as a passenger train.

      something I don’t quite understand the Geneva Convention. On our territory, we can do whatever we consider necessary (even peacetime has nothing to do with it). Or attacking us, in our territory has any prerogatives in rights?
  • Yak28
    Yak28 1 June 2016 18: 24 New
    -3
    Only Russia, by its stupidity, could destroy the BZHRK, and then 20 years later announce the creation of the BZHRK. lol lol lol
    1. NEXUS
      NEXUS 1 June 2016 18: 45 New
      +7
      Quote: Yak28
      Only Russia, by its stupidity, could destroy the BZHRK, and then 20 years later announce the creation of the BZHRK. lol lol lol

      Not Russia, but provocateurs in power.
      1. Yak28
        Yak28 1 June 2016 18: 56 New
        -2
        But who supported the provocateurs, who voted for them?
        1. NEXUS
          NEXUS 1 June 2016 19: 00 New
          +4
          Quote: Yak28
          But who supported the provocateurs, who voted for them?

          There is a simple Russian word-trust. People trusted in Mechneny with his glasnost and perestroika, and the EBN, who stupidly crawled out in contrast and stupefied people with his self-determination. From which the great country fell apart ... if a person believes, this does not mean that he stupid ... people just wanted change, and provocateurs took advantage of this.
    2. Arr_rera
      Arr_rera 1 June 2016 22: 09 New
      0
      Thanks to Gorbatom negative
    3. Svidetel 45
      Svidetel 45 1 June 2016 22: 13 New
      +1
      Not Russia, but those idiots, and maybe outright traitors who, by the will of fate, were at the top of power in Russia.
    4. pv1005
      pv1005 1 June 2016 22: 53 New
      0
      Quote: Yak28
      Only Russia, by its stupidity, could destroy the BZHRK, and then 20 years later announce the creation of the BZHRK. lol lol lol

      Only by its stupidity can we write such a crap. hi
    5. master.30.ru
      master.30.ru 3 June 2016 13: 22 New
      0
      Warranty period has expired.
  • cedar
    cedar 1 June 2016 18: 41 New
    +1
    "PS: I didn't know that they were brothers - Utkin. Vladimir - who doesn't know him now, KB" Yuzhnoye "(now enemy, if at all left), a worthy student of Yangel. Alexey Utkin is known much less, but, it's a pity , which is less. Two brothers and academicians - it's still to look for similar cases. "

    It will be fair to add the letters Ut."Barguzin-Ut" in memory of two outstanding designers of the nuclear missile shield of Russia, the Utkin brothers. Moreover, the invaders in Ukraine are doing everything to erase the memory of its Russian roots and Russian achievements in science and technology! And for our servants and civilians, such a mention of brothers will be a worthy example of serving the Motherland!
  • Brave Schweik
    Brave Schweik 1 June 2016 19: 19 New
    +2
    Thanks for the great article! It is encouraging! Provides such a thrill! .. And then on 31.05.2016/1/XNUMX I watched the "Vesti.dok" program on "Russia XNUMX" ... where they told me in detail how many times we have LESS weapons compared to NATO in Eastern Europe near the borders of my Motherland. .. I will not hide, I felt sad. (Why such defeatist thoughts?) In general, I slept peacefully. Thanks!
  • Old26
    Old26 1 June 2016 19: 22 New
    +3
    Even from a satellite it was difficult to distinguish BZHRK from the usual mixed composition. The only thing that could give BZHRK - it built locomotives. But over time, more powerful diesel locomotives were developed, and there were two locomotives.

    In those years, there really were problems with the identification of the detected target, since the resolution of the satellites was much worse than that of modern ones. What the BZHRK could give out was not only built locomotives, but also a very "short" train of 17 cars. While 2-3 locomotives "dragged" a train of half a hundred wagons. There have never been TWO locomotives on the BZHRK. And in general, it's not about whether the locomotive was powerful or not. just a tactical scheme for using BZHRK meant exactly THREE locomotives

    Of course, the development of technology has affected the appearance and composition of the new BZHRK. Three (and even two) powerful locomotives are likely to replace one. As an option - gas turbine locomotive GT1-001 (locomotive with a gas turbine engine).

    Three diesel locomotives were not because of their power, but because of the tactical flexibility of this scheme

    In service with one BZHRK there will be not one, but 6 missiles. And one train will be equated to the regiment.

    There was NEVER ONE rocket in the BZHRK

    The RS-26 missile system, aka Yars-M, aka Avangard, aka Boundary. In the modification specifically for BZHRK it will be "Frontier".

    Yeah, of course. Do not confuse the statement that the missile design will be based on the groundwork of the Yars, Rubezh, Bulava complexes and completely unfounded statements that it will be exactly RS-26 / Yars-M / Avangard / Rubezh

    TR-23 was solid fuel

    Actually RT-23 ...

    Quote: Moore
    Were three locomotives needed only for traction? They were pulling the "train" into a scattered battle formation - how will one, even a super-powerful gas turbine locomotive, cope with this?

    The right question. And nobody thinks about it
  • Siberian1965
    Siberian1965 1 June 2016 19: 34 New
    0
    Quote: Blondy
    But not one hell - it all depends on the point of view.

    It all depends on the supply of material. I like it more. Ask Japanese students who dropped bombs on their cities. Surprise all the supply of material.
  • Munchhausen
    Munchhausen 1 June 2016 19: 38 New
    0
    Previously, these trains were visible on double wheeled trolleys (4 trolleys per wagon), is the new version devoid of this drawback?
    1. Amurets
      Amurets 2 June 2016 00: 12 New
      0
      Quote: Munchhausen
      Previously, these trains were visible on double wheeled trolleys (4 trolleys per wagon), is the new version devoid of this drawback?

      There is such a fundamental parameter on railway transport: "LOAD FROM AXLE ON RAILS". This means that on one axle, like in a car, the load should not be more than indicated in the documents on the track. Since different rails can withstand different loads. Specifically, in those areas where the deployment of the BZHRK was planned, the R-75 rails were laid and the corresponding track structure was made, calculated for a load of 25 tons from the axis. And this means that the bridge infrastructure of the Ministry of Railways had to be strengthened under this load. that the axle load on the rails should be no more than 24 tons, and depending on the weight of the starting car, calculate the number of axles.
  • cat 23
    cat 23 1 June 2016 19: 51 New
    0
    Vsezh interesting how they push the circuit apart, and there is the tension of the wire and 25 kV ???? are they short?
  • The comment was deleted.
  • Old26
    Old26 1 June 2016 19: 58 New
    0
    Quote: Munchhausen
    Previously, these trains were visible on double wheeled trolleys (4 trolleys per wagon), is the new version devoid of this drawback?

    Nobody can say that yet. It is unlikely that they have already been developed (in the final version, launcher cars. There have not even been throw tests yet. But logically, most likely the new version will be free from this drawback
  • Munchhausen
    Munchhausen 1 June 2016 20: 04 New
    -1
    It is believedthat after the war, the achievements of Nazi Germany came to the Americans. There is even such a versionthat US intelligence ...
    Everything. Stop.
  • D. Dan
    D. Dan 1 June 2016 20: 16 New
    +1
    Well, nothing, nothing will launch the new BZHRK anyway.
    It is a fact. I myself am an employee of Russian Railways, of course not from the top echelon, but I will tell you the train will be. This link and the Perimeter system are a guarantee of our future.
    1. NEXUS
      NEXUS 1 June 2016 20: 52 New
      +1
      Quote: D. Dan
      This link and the Perimeter system are a guarantee of our future.

      So you don’t consider our missile defense an argument at all? Systems like A-235, S-350/400/500 do not count at all?
  • certero
    certero 1 June 2016 20: 30 New
    0
    You can track. But not in real time. What is the use of knowing that the train was there and there even half an hour ago? This is actually the main advantage of the complex, in which it even surpasses the plab.
    1. TOR2
      TOR2 1 June 2016 21: 01 New
      +1
      Quote: certero
      You can track. But not in real time.

      It depends on how you get to the point. It would be nice to create trains of clones of the BZHRK, only inside, for example, would be the S-400. In the event of an aggravation of the situation, such a train can be pulled very quickly to a vital center. Access roads at such facilities are usually present. It is technically possible to technically organize the automatic delivery of missiles to the S-400ZHD, and this opens up opportunities for repulsing a massive strike against an object.
      In this situation, tracking BZHRK will turn into a game of thimbles.
  • Victor Demchenko
    Victor Demchenko 1 June 2016 21: 00 New
    0
    Roman, hello to you! I’m not writing my friend, I’m just shy and afraid that I’m presumptuous to shamelessness. I’m always wondering, and what kind of thing is ... sorry for the expression the bastard puts minuses on EVERYTHING, emphasizing all the normal patriotic publications on VO? you can ban, but I remain of my opinion: it’s bastard (for the most advanced I explain the meaning of this word: rotten carcass of a domestic and not just an animal, not buried in the ground). you know, tired of reading and repelling all these publications! this position reminds me very much of Akhejakova’s posture, and I see her face ... uuuu woman’s idiot, I would have shot! from a slingshot, and into the left eye! Ato, that with our hand the drivers finally realized that our country has only two allies, so thank God! hi
    1. Elijah
      Elijah 15 June 2016 09: 57 New
      0
      Not two, but three - the army, navy and VKS.
  • kuz363
    kuz363 1 June 2016 21: 31 New
    0
    "One BZHRK will be armed with not one, but 6 missiles." As far as I read, there were 3 missiles in the BZHRK.
    The author writes, "At the time of decommissioning, Russia had three missile divisions (Kostroma, Perm and Krasnoyarsk), a total of 12 trains with 36 launchers."
  • Old26
    Old26 1 June 2016 21: 55 New
    0
    Quote: kuz363
    The author writes: “At the time of decommissioning, Russia had three missile divisions (Kostroma, Perm and Krasnoyarsk), a total of 12 trains with 36 launchers

    The author is absolutely right. THREE divisions, 4 regiments each. Three start-up modules in each. Total 36 missiles

    Quote: TOR2
    It would be nice to create trains of clones of the BZHRK, only inside, for example, would be the S-400. In the event of an aggravation of the situation, such a train can be pulled very quickly to a vital center. Access roads at such facilities are usually present. It is technically possible to technically organize the automatic delivery of missiles to the S-400ZHD, and this opens up opportunities for repulsing a massive strike against an object.

    What the hell? It is unlikely that it (S-400ZHD) will be more mobile than the usual S-400 on a car chassis. In addition, the linear arrangement of the launchers of the division will not give the same flexibility as with the normal arrangement of PU launchers. Plus recharge. How many times will it be possible to produce it and how?
    1. NEXUS
      NEXUS 1 June 2016 22: 01 New
      +1
      Quote: Old26
      Quote: TOR2
      It would be nice to create trains of clones of the BZHRK, only inside, for example, would be the S-400. In the event of an aggravation of the situation, such a train can be pulled very quickly to a vital center. Access roads at such facilities are usually present. It is technically possible to technically organize the automatic delivery of missiles to the S-400ZHD, and this opens up opportunities for repulsing a massive strike against an object.
      What the hell? It is unlikely that it (S-400ZHD) will be more mobile than the usual S-400 on a car chassis. In addition, the linear arrangement of the launchers of the division will not give the same flexibility as with the normal arrangement of PU launchers. Plus recharge. How many times will it be possible to produce it and how?

      The idea is not so crazy in essence ... only instead of the S-400 it would be quite possible to put the CLAB-K installations on the rails only, not an export version, and with a range of 1500-2500 km, under the guise of the same cars.
      1. Parsec
        Parsec 1 June 2016 22: 33 New
        0
        Quote: NEXUS
        CLAB-K installations


        Club complex is called.
    2. TOR2
      TOR2 1 June 2016 22: 32 New
      +1
      Look, the S-400ZHD will be able to move at the speed of a freight train. The usual S-400 car chassis is heavy for such speeds. The linear arrangement of launchers, this is an emergency, in the standard scenario, they are dispersed along the access roads of the facility. The role of the charging machine will be performed by a neighboring car, or rather several cars. The launcher has developed, the hatches have opened and the flow of missiles from a neighboring carriage has begun. Launches can be made as many as fit rockets in a car or several cars (for example two). It is difficult to say how many missiles will be removed taking into account the devices of the automatic transporter. As soon as the missiles end in a diesel locomotive, we customize the next charging group of cars. Something like this.
  • AFG-X
    AFG-X 1 June 2016 22: 05 New
    0
    That would be Barguzin based Sapsan still do. wassat