"Barguzin" instead of "Well done" as a response to the missile defense system

236


They say that new is well forgotten old. However, sometimes there are situations when a return to the old and expedient, and even necessary.

We are talking about BZHRK - combat railroad missile systems. At the end of the Soviet era, our country had such a miracleweapons. And the term "miracle weapon" is not ironic. BZHRK "Good for you", despite all the difficulties of exploitation, became that hemorrhoids for the secret services of our probable enemy.

Today, the likely adversary is mostly called a "partner", but the essence does not change one iota. NATO, as it was pulling up to the borders of Russia, continues its march in this direction, and the missile defense system, no matter how the US tries to convince everyone that it is directed against Iran, is increasingly seeking to settle also on our borders.

President Putin voiced that we will take adequate measures to counter. Apparently, one of such measures was the revival of BZHRK. Of course, not at all in the form in which they existed in 90.

A little excursion into history.

The Soviet rocket system 15P961 "Modedets" (RT-23 UTTH) stood on combat duty at the Strategic Missile Forces of the Armed Forces of the USSR and Russia in the period from 1987 to 1994 year in the number of 12 units. Then (by 2007 year) all the complexes were dismantled and destroyed, with the exception of two, transferred to the museums.

On the railways of the USSR and Russia had the symbol "train number zero."

The structure of BZHRK included a train of standard configuration for the complex:

- three three-car launch modules with RTB-23UTTH;
- the command module as part of 7 wagons;
- tank wagon with stocks of fuel and lubricants;
- two diesel locomotives DM-62.



In each of the locomotives, a separate locomotive brigade was on duty. During the training of officers' locomotive brigades of BZhRK, for detailed acquaintance with the route, they were periodically seconded to civilian trains following the same route.

BZHRK looked like a normal composition of refrigerated and passenger cars. The starting modules had eight wheel sets. The remaining wagons - wagons - four wheel sets each.

Even from the satellite it was difficult to distinguish the BZHRK from the usual mixed composition. The only thing that could give out BZHRK - it's built locomotives. But over time, more powerful diesel locomotives were developed, and there were two locomotives. And for masking, the heavy trains of the Ministry of Railways of the USSR also began to be equipped with two pairs of locomotives.

"Barguzin" instead of "Well done" as a response to the missile defense system


The brilliant creation of Soviet engineering. It was created by groups led by RAS Academicians Vladimir Fedorovich Utkin and Alexey Fedorovich Utkin. Alexey Utkin created the starting train himself, and Vladimir Utkin created a rocket and a launch complex. And they coped with the task, leaving behind a weapon that they could not create in the United States. This applies to both BZHRK as a whole and the RT-23 rocket.

Rocket RT-23, according to NATO classification - SS-24 "Scalpel".



The head part of the missile is a separate type of individual targeting with ten combat units with a power of 0.43 Mt and a complex of means for overcoming missile defense.

Firing range - 10100 km.
Rocket length - 23,0 m.
Starting container length - 21 m.
The maximum diameter of the rocket body is 2,4 m.
Rocket launch weight - 104,8 t.
Missile mass with launch container - 126 t.

The TP-23 was solid fuel, the head part was covered with an aerodynamic fairing with variable geometry (initially inflatable, later - folding). This design of the fairing due to the presence of restrictions imposed on the dimensions of the rocket size railway car.

In general, 512 inventions and patents were registered when creating this railway launching ground. It makes no sense to list them, because it takes too much space, and behind each patent is the work of Soviet engineers who successfully created a unique combat complex. What is worth only retractable nozzles and fairings, fitted to the dimensions of the car, the system of removal of gases from the canvas, the system of removal of contact wires, if the launch was carried out from the electrified section of the road.


A strange device on the roof of the outermost car: a mechanism for withdrawing contact wires


Hydraulic bearings, which accounted for the load during the launch of the rocket in the starting position

BZHRK "Well done", immediately became a headache for the Pentagon. To track them into orbit, a special grouping of satellites was launched, and at the end of 80, when BZhRK had already embarked on the routes, a container with tracking equipment was sent from Vladivostok to Sweden by rail as a commercial cargo. However, the Soviet counterintelligence container quickly "figured out" and it was removed from the train. American General Colin Powell once admitted to the founder of the BZHRK Academician Alexey Utkin: "Searching for your rocket trains is like a needle in a haystack."

Paradoxically, the Americans spent more money on tracking than the creators spent on the development of the train. And "Well done" quietly dissolved in the vast expanses of our vast country. And threatened with "scalpels" to potential opponents.



By the 1991 year, three missile divisions were deployed, equipped with BZHRK 12: in the Kostroma and Perm regions, the Krasnoyarsk Territory. Within the 1500 radius of kilometers from the location of the joints, the railroad track was modernized: wooden sleepers were replaced with reinforced concrete, heavy rails were laid, and embankments were strengthened with more dense gravel.

To completely disguise such work was carried out in other parts of the country.

Outside combat duty BZHRK was in shelter. Then he moved to a certain point of the railway network and divided into three. Locomotives diverted launchers to launch sites — they were usually located around a triangle point. But in general, the launch could be made from any point of the route.

The train had a fuel tank (also disguised as a refrigerator) and a pipeline system that allowed the locomotives to be refueled on the move. There were also sleeping cars for calculation, stocks of water and food. The autonomy of BZHRK was 28 days.

After launching missiles at one point, the composition went to the next - there were more than 200 in the Soviet Union. During the day BZHRK could go over a thousand kilometers. For reasons of secrecy, the routes were laid past large stations, and if they could not be passed, their rocket trains passed without stopping at dawn, when there were fewer people.

Since the BZHRK was planned as a counter strike weapon, the Shining experiment was conducted on 1991 - on the effects of electromagnetic radiation, and on Shift. The latter simulated a nuclear explosion of kiloton power. At the Plesetsk test site in 650 meters from the rocket train, 100 thousands of anti-tank mines that had been taken from warehouses in eastern Germany and laid with the 20-meter pyramid were blown up.

A funnel of diameters 80 meters was formed at the site of the explosion, the sound pressure level in the inhabited compartments of the BZhRK reached a pain threshold (150 decibels), one of the launchers showed that it was removed from readiness. But after restarting the onboard computing complex, the rocket was launched.

According to the START-2 agreement (1993 year), Russia had to remove from service all RT-23UTTH missiles before the 2003 year. At the time of decommissioning, Russia had three missile divisions (Kostroma, Perm and Krasnoyarsk), all 12 trains with 36 launchers. For the disposal of “rocket trains” at the Bryansk repair plant of the Strategic Missile Forces, a special “cutting” line was installed. Despite Russia's withdrawal from the START-2 agreement in 2002, during 2003 - 2007 all trains and launchers were destroyed, except for two demilitarized and installed as exhibits in the museum of railway equipment at the Warsaw station of St. Petersburg and in the AvtoVAZ Technical Museum .

At the beginning of May, 2005, as officially announced by the commander of the RVSH, Colonel-General Nikolai Solovtsov, BZhRK was removed from combat duty at the RVSN. The commander said that instead of BZHRK with 2006, the troops will begin to receive the Topol-M ground-based mobile missile system.

But Topol-M is no match for the Scalpel absolutely. Yes, more modern and protected, "Topol-M" is ten times inferior to the "Scalpel" in power of the warhead.

And then, finally, the news came that the revival of BZHRK began in Russia. Moreover, 12 May passed the information that the production of components of the new train, which will be called "Barguzin", has begun. And by the year 2020, the Barguzins will be on duty.

Of course, the development of technology has affected the appearance and composition of the new BZHRK. Three (and even two) powerful diesel locomotives are likely to replace one. As an option - gas turbine GT1-001 (locomotive with a gas turbine engine). It uses electrical transmission: a gas turbine engine that runs on liquefied natural gas is connected to a generator, and the current generated by the latter is fed to electric motors, which set the locomotive in motion.

The capacity of the gas turbine locomotive is 8,3 thous. KW, which is the largest indicator value for this type of locomotive in the world.

RZD provides the following characteristics of the tested model: speed up to 100 km / h, one refueling is enough for 750 km, fuel is liquefied natural gas.



7 September 2011 of the year GT1-001 set a new world record by running a freight train around the VNIIZhT ring weighing 16 thousand tons (170 cars).

In service with one BZHRK there will be not one, but 6 missiles. And one train will be equated to the regiment.

The RS-26 missile system, aka Yars-M, aka Avangard, aka Boundary. In the modification specifically for BZHRK it will be "Frontier".

The missile is equipped with a separable warhead of individual targeting and has a set of means to overcome the missile defense. Solid, three-stage, flight range up to 11 thousand km, can be equipped with 4 warheads with a capacity of 150 — 300 kilotons.

"Frontier" is equipped with hypersonic maneuvering warheads to break even promising missile defense systems. According to experts, to defeat a PC-26 hypersonic maneuvering warhead, at least 50 SM-3 anti-missiles are needed (hello, PRO!).

Is such an approach adequate, recalling the words of Putin? I am sure that it is. Our "potential ps" calculated that when 25 disperses such complexes across our vast territory, the probability of damage to BZHRK is estimated to be no more than 10%. Subject to the use of missiles such as "Voevoda", or similar in accuracy and ability to fly. What our "potential n" is not yet observed. But "Frontiers", capable of flying 11 000 kilometers, quite quietly reached those lines ...

Well, there will be something to talk about before the US Congress, demanding new and new allocations of funds "for defense." Good luck, as they say.

If the Barguzins are really on the database by 2020, we will breathe a little easier. Yes, to create and build everything you need is a very expensive business. But BZHRK - not an aircraft carrier. It will be easier, and cheaper. And so much pleasure "potential" ...

At such times we live, unfortunately.

It is a pity that the brothers Alexey and Vladimir Utkin, who watched the death of their creations in the cutting lines, kindly provided to us by American partners, will not see this.



Vladimir Fedorovich died in 2000, Alexey Fedorovich - in 2014.

But if the "Barguzins" replace the "Well done" to safeguard the tranquility of our country, this means that the work to which the geniuses from the very depths of the Ryazan region have given their whole lives is done.
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236 comments
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  1. +54
    1 June 2016 06: 56
    Rather, they would have done and put on duty. soldier And then the West is already on the head of a greyhound. And less attention should be paid to the different stench about START II violations. The Americans themselves are cynically violating everything with the cover of democratic values. Because "Barguzin" will serve as the answer to various tricks feel
    Personally, my opinion hi
    1. +27
      1 June 2016 07: 40
      I would say that the new complex is more than adequate! May the gods take him into service on time!
      1. +1
        3 June 2016 17: 18
        The question begs a little different, we have many systems adopted, but not purchased for the MORF. So, what’s more important here is how many of the warheads (the number of which is very limited) will be delivered on this platform.
    2. +20
      1 June 2016 07: 54
      And by 2020 the Barguzins will be on alert.
      four years later, maybe even sooner. impressive, worked ... a few years ago many doubted here on the site that they would be able to restore the BZHRK again.
      1. 0
        3 June 2016 04: 09
        +++ Well, I had no doubts out of stupidity, having read Mr. Koretsky's "Atomic Train")))
    3. +62
      1 June 2016 08: 23
      (Our "potential n" calculated that with the dispersal of 25 such complexes over the territory of our immense) I support an interesting expression.
      1. -20
        1 June 2016 10: 33
        But not one hell - it all depends on the point of view.
        1. +10
          1 June 2016 18: 33
          It should be noted that Roman always has interesting articles

          Thank you for this - I read it with pleasure - the topic is generally urgent. It seems that the BZHRK will actually strengthen security and reinforce deterrence of aggressors.
        2. +6
          1 June 2016 23: 27
          horseradish one diameter is different ... but there is still with pimples .... bully
        3. 0
          2 June 2016 06: 35
          Yes, it is fraught with commenting on Putin - so many minuses left.
          1. 0
            3 June 2016 01: 43
            sense of humor - useful feeling
        4. 0
          2 June 2016 09: 57
          The main thing is the point of view itself, or rather, speculation.
        5. +1
          3 June 2016 14: 05
          Quote: Blondy
          But not one hell - it all depends on the point of view.

          Yes, hell is one, but the sizes are different.
    4. -7
      1 June 2016 11: 02
      + absolutely crazy idea - to send the squads on duty not only on the network of the Russian Federation, but throughout the entire space of 1520.
      1. +2
        2 June 2016 10: 01
        You know - and the atomic bomb is not crazy?
    5. +27
      1 June 2016 12: 07
      "... At the test site in Plesetsk, 650 meters from the rocket train, 100 thousand anti-tank mines were detonated, taken from warehouses in eastern Germany and stacked with a 20-meter pyramid ...."

      Well, not trifled in the Union! wink To experience, so to experience! wink
      1. +14
        1 June 2016 20: 23
        Yeah, Gorbachev didn’t trifle - he ruined everything for dog-fucking!
        1. +12
          1 June 2016 23: 29
          burn him in hell ..... am
    6. 0
      1 June 2016 23: 25
      definitely .... the pill should be very bitter .... angry
  2. +25
    1 June 2016 07: 05
    Thank you to the author! Good article !! GOD engineers help in creating Barguzin! I am sure they will succeed !!!
  3. +8
    1 June 2016 07: 28
    good luck!!!! I will be sincerely glad when they take up combat duty. An important component of our security.
  4. icy
    -79
    1 June 2016 07: 34
    "An ingenious creation of Soviet engineering. It was created by teams led by brothers, Academicians of the Russian Academy of Sciences Vladimir Fedorovich Utkin and Alexei Fedorovich Utkin. Alexey Utkin created the starting train itself, and Vladimir Utkin created a rocket and a launch complex." - TOTAL LIE !!!!
    1. +34
      1 June 2016 07: 59
      Quote: icas
      - TOTAL LIES !!!!


      What, yours, evidence ?! Accusing lies, it would not hurt to bring evidence, otherwise it is an insult.
      1. icy
        -6
        3 June 2016 10: 55
        Engines are developed in Perm, fuel - near Moscow, launcher - Leningrad, cars - Kaliningrad (Tver). In 1982, he personally drove with the 3rd step from Moscow to Ulan-Ude and back. Where are Utkins?
        1. +2
          3 June 2016 12: 36
          If you are not in the subject then do not write nonsense. Leningrad made a command car. A launcher was made in Siberia. In Pavlograd they made a rocket (without warheads) and handed it over to the military.
    2. Are
      +24
      1 June 2016 19: 50
      Of course, it’s complete .... The Great Ukrainians launched the launch train, rocket and launch train! .... and the WF and AF Utkins have stolen everything from them) wassat (Lord, give me strength not to laugh!) laughing
      1. +2
        1 June 2016 21: 37
        How could they steal if the brothers worked at Yuzhmash in Dnepropetrovsk?
      2. +7
        1 June 2016 23: 47
        Quote: ARE
        Of course, it’s complete .... The Great Ukrainians launched the launch train, rocket and launch train! ...

        New Russian smartphone ... AKFON laughing
    3. 0
      1 June 2016 23: 30
      who are you and where ???? am
    4. 0
      2 June 2016 10: 03
      What exactly is a lie?
    5. 0
      2 June 2016 18: 02
      Justify! Or at least hint what and how. It seems to me, dear man, are you a meek person? Apparently they invented and implemented all this?
  5. +14
    1 June 2016 07: 46
    Our complexes are your problems)))
  6. +33
    1 June 2016 07: 46
    "Simple guys from the provinces", unlike the current ones, did not chase after "big money", but simply loved their homeland and their business. They were raised from the Russian "depths" by the Soviet system: "In 1946, Utkin entered the Leningrad Military Mechanical Institute. After successfully graduating from the institute in 1952, he was assigned to one of the leading design bureaus of the country - KB Yuzhnoye in the city of Dnepropetrovsk (Ukraine) . He worked as a design engineer, senior engineer, then headed various research and design departments: group head, sector head, deputy department head, deputy chief designer. "
    Such people were tempered by the War.
    1. +5
      2 June 2016 10: 04
      The military mech of those years is America's headache so far.
  7. +17
    1 June 2016 07: 47
    Thanks to the author for the detailed material, I read it with great pleasure.
    The complex from ideas to implementation in a good way!
  8. +28
    1 June 2016 07: 54
    Under existing conditions, it is difficult, but not impossible, to create such a system in Russia.
    But with its practical operation serious problems will arise:
    1. The entire infrastructure for servicing BZhRK (military units, special depot for their installation and repair) has been lost.
    2. Recent reforms in the Railways in the bud kill the role of the state in the railway transport. Railways at the Railways is not left, repair depots sell, not tomorrow will give locomotives. Therefore, security will be a problem.
    3. The problem of secrecy of transportation and the possibility of a "sudden" strike. Given the development of technology and the ability to bribe interested employees of Russian Railways - it will be easy to track the train.
    4. Gas turbine locomotive as a locomotive is nonsense. In the first of all ... so far two (and both are in trial operation). Secondly, the weight of the launcher and the car compared to the “Good for you” has decreased significantly, so it is more expedient to use any modern diesel locomotive, so as not to attract undue attention to the composition.
    And so the idea of ​​reviving the BZHRK is very good and will strengthen the combat effectiveness of our country in any way. A little bit she was late (
    1. +4
      1 June 2016 08: 23
      Chef mustache is gone. Plaster is removed - the client leaves.
    2. +11
      1 June 2016 10: 55
      Quote: denvar555
      4. Gas turbine as a locomotive - this is nonsense.

      Well, it’s not entirely nonsense if they go to RZD en masse as locomotives. Brad to use one locomotive. If one fails, the second duplicates, albeit with a decrease in speed. And with one locomotive? Take up a circular defense and wait for a shunt from the nearest station? request
    3. +1
      1 June 2016 14: 27
      Americans will know where the train is at any time. If all the dispatching and other services of Russian Railways will be in a single information network, then the Americans, having access to them, will be able to calculate where any train is located, even if it is listed as a train with an ordinary load. With modern technologies of the electronic banking system, it will be easy for an interested organization to gain access about business entities whose cargo is in a particular carriage. Not to mention the presence of satellites, when any train passing by stations will cause interest in the electronic brains of computer centers. I think it will be clear what kind of train if it runs without stops outside the schedule, does not load and does not unload, bypasses large industrial cities, settles in heavily protected areas, etc. etc.
      1. +3
        1 June 2016 15: 16
        Quote: MyVrach
        Not to mention the presence of satellites, when any train passing by stations will cause interest in the electronic brains of computer centers

        But what about cloud cover and the dark? wink
      2. +8
        1 June 2016 16: 22
        Sure. If a railcar with an observer is put behind the BZHRK, and in the documentation for the railroad it is indicated "a special train of the RF Armed Forces with nuclear missiles."
        1. 0
          3 June 2016 12: 41
          BZHRK runs like a letter train. And there are still enough such trains.
      3. The comment was deleted.
      4. The comment was deleted.
      5. +11
        1 June 2016 16: 30
        Quote: MyVrach
        Americans will know where the train is at any time. If all the dispatching and other services of Russian Railways will be in a single information network, then the Americans, having access to them, will be able to calculate where any train is located, even if it is listed as a train with an ordinary load.

        what And if it will be like a regular cargo ride, does a lot of freight stop at all stations? The satellites do not hang in one place, but rush about like crazy in their orbits, you can almost count sunny days in some of our regions on the fingers, after 5 days - they get tired of searching without special beacons.
        Checking for the presence of special beacons is the task of the accompanying and maintenance personnel to find and destroy or rearrange to another regular staff. As an option, make a lot of takes and attach to every second train - let the brains break.
        1. +3
          1 June 2016 17: 32
          It will not dangle like any freight train. Any railway worker will determine what kind of train it is.
          1. +1
            2 June 2016 08: 56
            Quote: denvar555
            It will not dangle like any freight train. Any railway worker will determine what kind of train it is.

            belay Do we have any railway workers such specialists? After all, military models can also be fastened to ordinary wagons and trains, it works in disguise in both directions.
            1. +2
              2 June 2016 18: 57
              even a person who lives next to the road will become a specialist if he climbs the trains at the stations "on the other side" (under the cars) 7 times a day - the carts will "hand over" and the presence of "certain" persons on the platform
            2. 0
              2 June 2016 19: 12
              Believe me, even a special carriage for transporting missiles (not a launch platform) for a specialist is different from a conventional carriage. A launch platform equipped with four dual trolleys is immediately evident.
        2. +3
          1 June 2016 17: 46
          It will not dangle like any freight train. Any railway worker will determine what kind of train it is.
      6. +1
        1 June 2016 19: 14
        Urgently, a matter of particular importance: the forum member "my doctor" should be appointed the chief government consultant on national security issues! So that in your opinion, there are no people in the Strategic Missile Forces and Putin to calculate such options? If so then: a) you
        1. +1
          2 June 2016 13: 24
          Quote: Monarchist
          Urgently, a matter of particular importance: the forum member "my doctor" should be appointed the chief government consultant on national security issues! So that in your opinion, there are no people in the Strategic Missile Forces and Putin to calculate such options? If so then: a) you

          I'm not talking about what I know how to distinguish one composition from another composition. No, I talked about the fact that such a train may have unmasking signs. And I don’t have the slightest idea about them, but the fact that I composed just an illustration of what they can be. I am sure that there are a huge number of things on which it can be highlighted, as well as the fact that they will be taken into account by those who need it, but it is impossible to foresee everything.
      7. +6
        1 June 2016 20: 31
        Nothing of the kind - the same refrigerators will do and assign the trains to various m / n plants working for the defense industry (and there is secrecy anyway), and not one jackal can guess, the stew is future or something else!
      8. +4
        1 June 2016 22: 53
        Quote: MyVrach
        I think it will be clear what kind of train it is if it runs without stops outside the schedule, does not load and unloads, bypasses large industrial cities, settles in heavily guarded territories, etc. etc.

        Well, yes, of course, TAM is sitting completely brainless, who will expel the special squad outside the schedule and other lotions ... Just like that, send such a squad on combat duty and not provide elements of secrecy ... only the naive can come up with this. And he cruised by no means in a single copy. In Soviet times, the wagon could be distinguished by the increased number of wheelsets, while Barguzin, in connection with the change in weight characteristics, special wagon does not differ from the usual ref, so here the designers worked hard.
        1. msm
          msm
          0
          2 June 2016 11: 23
          You are stating that you might think that trains already exist. There is also no approved project, so there are only one proposals.
        2. 0
          2 June 2016 13: 42
          Quote: SMikhalych
          Well, yes, of course, TAM is sitting completely brainless, who will expel the special squad outside the schedule and other lotions ... Just like that, send such a squad on combat duty and not provide elements of secrecy ... only the naive can come up with this. And he cruised by no means in a single copy.

          Naive sad During the preparation of the sketch of the train, the struggle for stealth begins, continuing until it is removed from duty, and I think that with the development of technology this struggle will be fought with varying success, the results of which will not be known not only to us, but its immediate participants will not be sure . And I don’t know what you know about this topic, but I know that I don’t know anything, with which I hastened to share.
      9. +2
        2 June 2016 10: 06
        With this power of liberoids, they will already know everything. It is time for the country to decide to restore a just social system.
    4. +1
      1 June 2016 18: 15
      I do not agree with point 1; restoring the infrastructure is not so difficult. From scratch, you don’t need to invent, you just need to remember what and how.
      Point 2 has nothing to do with the matter at all. repair and stuff always fighters themselves did.
      3 point yes this is a problem for the FSB I agree with this
      4 point, the weight of the cars was reduced, but the number was increased, respectively, the total weight even increased
      1. 0
        1 June 2016 19: 32
        On 1: you can create, but the project in the Soviet era was not cheap, now it will result in a good penny.
        By 2: not entirely true. "Warriors" could not do this alone without the involvement of the appropriate factories, specialists, equipment.
        By 3: the problem is solved)
        On 4: the author’s idea to use a gas turbine locomotive is original in itself, but it is not necessary, because the weight of the train, not even with floor cars, is unlikely to exceed 1,5-2,0 thousand tons, which is possible for any main locomotive. The locomotive used in the young three needed to be dispersed, and not to create the necessary traction.
        1. +3
          1 June 2016 20: 38
          The project will obviously be cheaper, because many Soviet patents will not have to be developed anew, if we take into account the existing experience and do not chase after "sawing the dough."
        2. +1
          4 June 2016 05: 31
          P7. Since the project is not very cheap, in order to invest money in it, it is necessary to prepare the political component as qualitatively as possible. In order to prevent the appearance in the ruling circles of the country of the next humpbacks, Chubians and other riffraffs who are ready to put this wonderful project under the knife, the FSB, SVR and other law enforcement agencies, thoroughly clean weapons, soap the ropes, prepare lists of candidates from the highest circles of bureaucrats, for their further resettlement to the continents of Columbus and other remote islands. For the most intractable and stubborn, clinging to the possibilities of easy enrichment and power from the hands of foreign partners, create the FGBU "Beria and KO" with a location in places where there is no Internet, cellular communication and other means of communication, but the presence of not dusty mining operations. Staff on the basis of the merits of these persons to foreign partners.
    5. +3
      2 June 2016 19: 04
      I agree with all the points on my own add:
      1. There is not only a depot but also dedicated launch sites (I suspect not far from the place where I live there was such a dead end with a reinforced rail grate and now there is a fuel base).
      2. The main fleet of wagons has virtually ceased to exist.
      3. It is not even necessary to bribe Russian Railways, FPK and Freight One will inform everything themselves.
      4. I’ll add now there is no infrastructure on the road network for refueling the GT1-001 gas turbo locomotive (if I am not mistaken, they are now used as an experience somewhere on the bam because of their advantage of the range of travel at one gas station)
      Well, plus once already wrote a comment on this topic
      The main advantage of the BZHRD systems is the stealth and speed of movement, and now it will not be so simple with both of them. It is not clear under what types of trains (type of wagon for the purpose) to mask them earlier these were refrigerated trains. The standard refrigerator section included several wagons (it seems up to 6 wagons) of refrigerators and a wagon diesel power station (the staff also lived in it), longer trains were composed of several sections. This is an almost ideal model for camouflaging several wagons directly with missiles and wagon control and accommodation personnel. At this time, there are almost no refrigerated trains left; many depots involved in their repair are liquidated. The choice remains either freight trains or passenger. But there and there are problems. For freight, this is the length of standard semi-cars and covered cars, which is 12-15m (without automatic couplers). There are also longer ones up to 20m, but these are mainly tanks and open platforms. Passenger cars have a length of about 20 m (without coupler and buffer sets) the same as refrigerated cars, it would seem IT BUT. But all passenger trains move according to a schedule, they are actually compiled 2 times a year (summer and winter schedules), and besides, they are all equipped with the GLONAS system and are tracked in real time. In fact, on the FPK website you can find out the position of any composition. So the appearance of the passenger train moving outside the schedule that does not stop at the stations and does not appear in the system will immediately attract attention. Of course it would be interesting to disguise by analogy with Club-K, but the length of a 40-foot container is only 12m.
      In general, it seems to me that if you recreate them then in a slightly different form. A mobile long-range anti-aircraft missile defense system with an intercept range of 500-2000 km and the ability to strike at ground targets (well, like now, after all, many anti-aircraft missiles can do this). And as an option, the ability to install tactical warheads to combat maneuvering targets (honestly, we just put them there for that). In this situation, this is probably a less adequate way to circumvent the ban on medium-range missiles. In fact, in fact, in Poland, etc. ABM is the fastest way for Americans to set up for this. Although this is only my opinion, I could be wrong.
  9. +2
    1 June 2016 07: 56
    Let the "partners" scratch themselves, rustle with dollars ... You look more likely to bend over.
  10. +9
    1 June 2016 08: 05
    In service with one BZHRK there will be not one, but 6 missiles. And one train will be equated to the regiment.

    Well, let’s assume that before there was not one, but three, and one "train" was already equated to a regiment.
    Three (and even two) powerful locomotives are likely to replace one.

    Were three locomotives needed only for traction? They were pulling the "train" into a scattered battle formation - how will one, even a super-powerful gas turbine locomotive, cope with this?
  11. +6
    1 June 2016 08: 12
    dear ones, the latter personally saw in 2005, he didn’t have more, but about infrastructure, it’s not true, everything is fine here, I agree about the locomotive, I don’t need any special one, I need the usual 2TE-116s, more than enough, I need experimenting with electric locomotives in Central Russia, but in general it would be gorgeous a train with a mobile pu, reached a point, unload and look for it in fields, forests (fantasies), thanks to the author, I learned a lot
    1. +5
      1 June 2016 08: 19
      Electric locomotives - definitely not! Dependence on a contact network that is easily damaged in the bud will kill the whole project + electrification of Russian Railways is not 100%, but on some roads 50-60%.
      There is no infrastructure either, it was destroyed along with the complexes.
      1. +5
        1 June 2016 09: 34
        Quote: denvar555
        Electric locomotives - definitely not! Dependence on a contact network that is easily damaged in the bud will kill the whole project + electrification of Russian Railways is not 100%, but on some roads 50-60%.
        There is no infrastructure either, it was destroyed along with the complexes.

        I won’t talk about infrastructure, and so everything is clear. Electric locomotives? We not only do not have all the railways electrified, but also different current systems: alternating and constant. But the locomotive we get is only one 2TE-70. This is the only freight locomotive produced in the Russian Federation. Take the locomotives of the Voroshilovgrad (Lugansk) plant is not it makes sense. Here you need to look forward, it is not known how the situation in LDNR develops. There is no need to take risks. http://www.kolomnadiesel.com/productions/locomotive/diesel_lo
        comotive /
        2te70 / This is a link to a diesel locomotive. Moreover, the diesel generator set of the diesel locomotive is well-developed. I would not be in a hurry with a gas turbine locomotive, I need to gain operational experience, since serial and experimental products differ day and night.
      2. +2
        1 June 2016 13: 12
        First, you didn't read the article carefully. The author "suggested" as an alternative:

        "Alternatively, the GT1-001 gas turbine locomotive (a locomotive with a gas turbine engine). It uses an electric transmission: a gas turbine engine that runs on liquefied natural gas is connected to a generator, and the current generated by the latter is supplied to electric motors, which drive the locomotive. "

        But he probably is not aware that such a layout has existed for a long time and has proven itself perfectly, say in shipbuilding.
        Secondly, "Rubezh" is already being supplied to the troops. Read the news from the last two months.
        1. +4
          1 June 2016 16: 48
          Quote: Berkut752
          First, you didn't read the article carefully. The author "suggested" as an alternative:

          I carefully read the article. Moreover, I have worked for more than ten years in the locomotive depot and on diesel and electric locomotives. The novelty here is not in the line-up, but in the fuel. Before that, LNG was not used in locomotive building. We do not need steam locomotives, so we take V.A. Rakov:! Locomotives of domestic railways 1956-1975. "This book already contains the first gas turbine locomotives, just like in the article. Their advantages and disadvantages are given. And then gas turbine locomotives disappear from the catalogs of traction rolling stock right up to 2006. At Voronezh locomotive repair plant, on the basis of the body of the VL-15 electric locomotive, 2 experimental gas turbine locomotives are being built, so they are immediately sent to the army under the BZHRK? The author wrote interestingly about the train itself, but in some places there are inaccuracies, but this is not critical.
      3. 0
        1 June 2016 15: 11
        Dear, about the infrastructure, once again you are wrong, if you noticed I indicated exactly Central Russia, here the electrification of the railway is large and the fleet of diesel locomotives is large, besides, the rocket train itself will not necessarily operate from the "advanced", but rather from depths
        1. 0
          1 June 2016 17: 20
          I had in mind the infrastructure for servicing special trains.
          And the point is to hide it in the outback. It must go all over the network, otherwise it is easy to detect the treatment ground and destroy it.
          Ps probably still electrification?
      4. 0
        1 June 2016 15: 11
        Dear, about the infrastructure, once again you are wrong, if you noticed I indicated exactly Central Russia, here the electrification of the railway is large and the fleet of diesel locomotives is large, besides, the rocket train itself will not necessarily operate from the "advanced", but rather from depths
  12. 0
    1 June 2016 08: 22
    It is necessary at the same time to organize the supply of brown pants overhang. I think a couple of compounds immediately pay back;)
  13. +4
    1 June 2016 08: 22
    The RS-26 missile system, aka Yars-M, aka Avangard, aka Boundary. In the modification specifically for BZHRK it will be "Frontier".

    Where does infa come from? I read that development began on the basis of Yars RS-24. The milestone is quite different in terms of weight and size parameters, because it is simply impossible to replace one missile with another without a major change in design. This is not a mine, but a car. There is no official information on the complex, so you can’t say that it will be like this. But even if it is based on the RS-26, it still does not reach Molodets, which is sad.
    "Frontier" is equipped with hypersonic maneuvering warheads to break even promising missile defense systems. According to experts, to defeat a PC-26 hypersonic maneuvering warhead, at least 50 SM-3 anti-missiles are needed (hello, PRO!).

    Again fictions, because not having data on the performance characteristics of the rocket, only "experts" can say this.
    1. -22
      1 June 2016 08: 45
      "Experts" only want us to have THIS, without thinking about the list of difficulties and problems that Soviet designers once solved.
      Most likely, the Barguzin project will collapse at the design stage, as happened with an attempt to resume production of the TU-160, when it suddenly turned out that in 25 years after the collapse of the alliance, "technologies have already been irretrievably lost." God forbid if I'm wrong!
      1. +15
        1 June 2016 10: 20
        Quote: denvar555
        Most likely, the Barguzin project will collapse at the design stage, as happened with an attempt to resume production of TU-160

        1. Actually, the stage of preliminary design for "Barguzin" has already been completed and the people have moved on to the next stage - the development of units, which resulted in a message about the beginning of throw tests this fall. What does this mean? At least that by the fall there will be some version of the launcher in the hardware.
        2. Regarding the "attempt" with the TU-160. Nice here:
        http://gelio.livejournal.com/215362.html
        3. The minuses are not mine.
        1. +4
          1 June 2016 10: 55
          Good article.
          The Tu-160 is undeniably the best in its class.
          But the problem is not how to resume its production, but how not to produce people who want to play hands and ask for loot. An example is the Vostochny cosmodrome.
          Ps I don't care about the cons. Most people need to look at things soberly and really assess the situation in the world and in the country. And to write that how cool it is when we have it all and how the Americans will justify ... they will be frightened at least stupidly.
          1. +4
            1 June 2016 15: 29
            Are you looking at things soberly?
            He blurted out stupidity about the TU-160, drew his forecasts about Barguzin here - and you rejoice. Like, a patriot critical of thinking?
            You don’t know any belmes - pierced twice at once. But at the same time "sober-minded". You carry nonsense and, like galloping neighbors from a crazy country, mark everything around you with brown substance!
            1. +1
              1 June 2016 16: 59
              Well, when will the vaunted TU-160 of a new construction appear ??? In the 20 ... 50 year? And at whose expense? Another pension reform?
              How many planes have arrived at the Russian Air Force over the past 5 years and what are these models? We sell more than we transfer to our troops abroad.
              As for "Barguzin" I know no more than you do. Apart from the vague pictures, the MO did not say how IT would look and work. Maybe that's right.
              But I know firsthand the work in Russian Railways. In the existing realities of work, when 98% of cars travel privately through the network, it will be impossible to hide the train.
              And dream - dream !!!
              1. +6
                1 June 2016 17: 51
                Quote: denvar555
                Well, when will the vaunted TU-160 of a new construction appear ??? In the 20 ... 50 year? And at whose expense?

                Mattresses will be sealed. laughing
                Quote: denvar555
                How many planes have arrived at the Russian Air Force over the past 5 years and what are these models?

                Су-34,СУ-35С,СУ-30СМ,ТУ-95МСМ,ТУ-22М3,МИГ-29СМТ,ТУ-160М...Хватит?
                Quote: denvar555
                As for "Barguzin" I know no more than you do.

                If you don’t know why, then say that the project is a failure?
                Quote: denvar555
                it will be impossible to hide the composition

                Do you know how the BARZ Barguzin will look?
              2. 0
                1 June 2016 22: 29
                Quote: denvar555
                And dream - dream !!!

                We were born to make a fairy tale come true.
      2. The comment was deleted.
      3. +5
        1 June 2016 15: 41
        Quote: denvar555
        Most likely, the Barguzin project will be bent at the design stage,

        Is this a fright then? The BZHRK Barguzin project is a priority for the country and there are no preconditions for curtailing this project. And your fantasies do not really fit in with reality.
        Quote: denvar555
        as happened with the attempt to resume production of the TU-160, when it suddenly turned out that in 25 years after the collapse of the union, "the technologies have already been irretrievably lost."

        Oh how. Directly irrevocably. laughing Did you understand what you’ve scratched yourself? Are you already developing a new engine for TU-160M2, electronics, etc. ... what arguments do you have in favor of your thesis? Or just blundered without even bothering to familiarize yourself with this topic?
        1. -7
          1 June 2016 17: 13
          These are not my words, but military "experts" who expressed themselves in this way when discussing the topic of resuming aircraft production at the Kazan aircraft plant.
          In the previous article about the TU-160 there is also no specifics:
          http://topwar.ru/page,1,2,74828-vozobnovlenie-stroitelstva-tu-160-zadachi-i-prob
          lemy.html
          But the fact remains that what was built in the Land of Soviets with the help of tens and hundreds of related enterprises will be difficult to renew in the realities of Russia.
          1. +4
            1 June 2016 17: 56
            Quote: denvar555
            These are not my words, but military "experts" who expressed themselves in this way when discussing the topic of resuming aircraft production at the Kazan aircraft plant.

            What kind of military experts? Ours? If ours, then these are not experts but balabol, but if they’re Western, then believe them further.
            Quote: denvar555
            In the previous article about the TU-160 there is also no specifics:

            And do you think in the internet and the media should be all the information on the work in this topic?
            Quote: denvar555
            But the fact remains that what was built in the Land of Soviets with the help of tens and hundreds of related enterprises will be difficult to renew in the realities of Russia.

            It’s difficult, but possible. If you have all the documentation, technology and normal financing. And since the TU-160M2 is a priority project that is directly related to the PAK DA project, its implementation is a priori mandatory.
      4. 0
        1 June 2016 19: 38
        Quote: denvar555
        Most likely, the Barguzin project will collapse at the design stage, as happened with an attempt to resume production of the TU-160, when it suddenly turned out that in 25 years after the collapse of the union, "the technologies have already been irretrievably lost."

        As for Barguzin, I don’t know, this is for rocket men, but you are wrong about the Tu-160.
        It is difficult to resume production, but it is possible. Yes, all this time of "market reforms" we have degraded instead of developing, but there are problems (especially with regard to engines), but there will be a product.
        When? Probably they will go to combat units around 2020 or a little later.
        PS I agree with the private railways of Russian Railways, this is a problem. I would suggest nationalizing the industry smile
  14. +2
    1 June 2016 08: 29
    a very, very necessary argument for NATO would be faster in the troops on duty
  15. +3
    1 June 2016 08: 34
    It’s a pity not to shove the container, mobility and secrecy would increase significantly.
    1. +4
      1 June 2016 08: 40
      Such a project was also considered, but in addition to the control room, there’s still a lot of stuff that you won’t stuff into the container (security, communication systems, autonomous energy sources, etc.).
    2. +1
      1 June 2016 09: 34
      Club-K. Of course this is not the RS-26, but also not bad, especially with a set of options for installed weapons, you can shoot at about 300 km.
      Mobility and stealth included)
      1. 0
        1 June 2016 17: 00
        Quote: ShadowCat
        Club-K. Of course this is not the RS-26, but also not bad, especially with a set of options for installed weapons, you can shoot at about 300 km.
        Mobility and stealth included)

        Then, in addition to Barguzinov, we can also design normal trains with CD in wagons, let them go there, the main trains can be safely waggoned in cars 30-50, and this is more than a missile boat, well, you can shoot a couple of thousand kilometers at once in one gulp.
  16. 0
    1 June 2016 08: 38
    And what's the difference for the US missile defense is a complex or mine. Missile Parameters Are Important
    1. +4
      1 June 2016 09: 18
      Quote: Kenneth
      And what's the difference for the US missile defense is a complex or mine.

      A very important characteristic of the BZHRK is mobility, which makes it very difficult for the adversary to track the movement of these trains.
      1. -8
        1 June 2016 11: 45
        The essence of missile defense is that you do not need to track anything. The start is fixed and the missile is destroyed before the separation of warheads. Ideally, before going into space. That is, with a station in Romania they’ll be buried on the trains of our missiles or on bicycles.
        1. +1
          1 June 2016 18: 37
          Quote: Kenneth
          The essence of missile defense is that you do not need to track anything. The start is fixed and the missile is destroyed before the separation of warheads. Ideally, before going into space. That is, with a station in Romania they’ll be buried on the trains of our missiles or on bicycles.

          Do you think their anti-missiles are so fast that they fly to a take-off rocket beyond the Urals or in Siberia until it goes into space? It does not seem that ballistic missiles are gaining height for half an hour, well, you can also shoot down a missile defense in case of something.
          1. -2
            1 June 2016 20: 39
            This is not what I suppose. These are our experts who believe that poplars are very vulnerable, but there are no yars yet.
            But thousands of standards managed by Aegis can already knock out a significant part of the spruce not at the start, then in space. And the missile defense system is steadily and consistently developing. Unfortunately.
            1. +2
              1 June 2016 20: 49
              Quote: Kenneth
              But thousands of standards managed by Aegis can already knock out a significant part of the spruce not at the start, then in space.

              The Standard-3 missile can only shoot down ICBMs in the booster section. However, how to deal with the interception of the same Poplar is a big question.
              Quote: Kenneth
              yars not yet

              The RS-24 is already in service, and as I understand it, after all the tests and refinements, the RS-26 Frontier will soon be deployed in the troops on mobile platforms in the future.
            2. 0
              1 June 2016 21: 48
              By the way, solid fuel Poplars are also immune from missile defense, because they gain speed very quickly, unlike liquid rockets. It was a tricky stuffing of Americans - to force Russia to abandon powerful missiles such as Voivod and spend money and effort on Poplars with just one head.
              1. +1
                1 June 2016 21: 52
                Quote: kuz363
                It was a tricky stuffing of Americans - to force Russia to abandon powerful missiles such as Voevoda

                Nonsense ... The voivode has been on duty since the 70s and has undergone more than one modernization. And the service life of the missiles was extended three times ... the last time until 2020. Therefore, a replacement in the form of Sarmat is being developed.
              2. -1
                3 June 2016 02: 32
                5 years ago, he served in the Strategic Missile Forces and even then the regiment said that the Americans had learned to shoot down ordinary Poplar quite confidently, the only thing that saved ... we had them smile
                1. +1
                  3 June 2016 13: 00
                  And how many poplars were shot down ????
            3. +1
              2 June 2016 09: 15
              Throw a link, pliz, for the available "thousands of" Standards ", where does the infa come from?
          2. +1
            3 June 2016 12: 57
            ROCKET PRO has a radius of 600 kilometers. A LAUNCH made outside the Urals. Even if they’re tracked, they won’t be able to do anything.
        2. +1
          1 June 2016 20: 42
          I wonder what kind of ostriches are minus. This damn sad truth is that with the development of missile defense it has become indifferent to which half-station missiles start. And no burial of heads in the sand will not change this fact.
          1. 0
            1 June 2016 22: 31
            Quote: Kenneth
            This damn sad truth is that with the development of missile defense

            This will be news for you, but offensive weapons are also being improved.
          2. 0
            2 June 2016 09: 29
            Read, dear Kenneth, carefully the article, study relevant topics, materiel. So the minuses will decrease. Verbose fabrications are not welcome here.
        3. 0
          1 June 2016 21: 44
          Prospective US missile defense systems in Europe cover a range of only 5000 km, which means to the Urals. Siberia is out of reach.
        4. +4
          1 June 2016 22: 44
          Quote: Kenneth
          The essence of missile defense is that you do not need to track anything. The start is fixed and the missile is destroyed before the separation of warheads. Ideally, before going into space. That is, with a station in Romania they’ll be buried on the trains of our missiles or on bicycles.

          The essence of the launch with the BZHRK is that the rocket has a so-called mortar launch, i.e. it is first pushed out of the starting housing and only then the main engine is turned on. Therefore, to fix such a start is very, very difficult. This is the first. The second is that a start is possible from anywhere in the vast expanses of Russia. Horseradish you will come across companions for such an event. Third - this type of missile is very difficult to detect in the active phase of flight. According to experts, the elimination of one such missile will require up to 50 anti-missiles, which still need not only to start, but also reach the missile launched from where it is not clear where from the missile launcher. And then it does not hang and wait, it will calmly go out into space and ... if separation of warheads that fly on hypersound and even on a changing trajectory occurs, I strongly doubt that the so-called probable enemy has such elements of the system ABM, which will prevent the inevitable. request
          So, while the station in Romania tries to squeak once, it will be quietly covered like a bull, a sheep, or Iskander, or ... well, in general, what will turn up under the button bully
          In general, before engaging in speculation, you need to include brains ... ideally hi
          1. 0
            3 June 2016 13: 06
            When we tested BZHRK ALWAYS brought SIGNAL A. In which the time was indicated when there is no satellite above the head.
    2. 0
      2 June 2016 06: 35
      BZHRK is not a means of overcoming missile defense, they are created to minimize losses from a preventive strike.
      1. 0
        2 June 2016 11: 23
        Quote: Tines
        BJRK is not a means to overcome missile defense, they are created to minimize losses from a preemptive strike.

        fool Did he even understand what he wrote?
        How can a so-called ghost train equipped with strategic missiles (!) Of the intercontinental class can MINIMIZE losses from a preemptive strike?
        Do not confuse missile defense, which, in fact, serves to minimize the achievement of targets by missiles of the likely enemy and, accordingly, minimize losses, with strike means, which under the existing military doctrine are called MEANS OF CONTAINMENT. So that God forbid, no one and no ... am
        1. 0
          2 June 2016 20: 47
          Perhaps I put it unsuccessfully. This meant the complex itself, and not the missiles installed on it. In the sense of BZHRK reduces the likelihood of detection and destruction of missiles, which, in themselves, of course, are striking means.
  17. +1
    1 June 2016 08: 39
    Who cares - here from the forum about the BZHRK, in my opinion, in some detail ...
    http://yasnay.ru/forum/11-401-1
    There is also about secrecy.
    Happened to be here:
    http://wikimapia.org/#lang=ru&lat=57.846578&lon=41.237354&z=14&m=b
    Some cars still stand ...
  18. +2
    1 June 2016 08: 45
    Such complexes are vital for Russia with our colossal territory! Be sure to put them into service !!!
    1. 0
      1 June 2016 11: 50
      Russia urgently needs to clean up corruption and economic development. If possible, the independence of the courts and the lack of bias in the media. And normal roads if it talks about the territory.
  19. +7
    1 June 2016 08: 50
    To assess the scale of the lost, it is enough to familiarize yourself with one of the former points of deployment of the BZHRK
    http://navoine.info/stanciya-bershet-baza-bjrk-stolyarenko.html
  20. +3
    1 June 2016 09: 09
    There were good trains. Thank you Gorbachev and Yeltsin, now you have to restore.
    1. +5
      1 June 2016 09: 20
      Quote: volodya
      There were good trains. Thank you Gorbachev and Yeltsin, now you have to restore.

      It is important that we returned to the BZHRK concept. And we will see what rocket there will be YRS-M or Rubezh.
    2. +2
      1 June 2016 21: 49
      Thanks also to Putin, it’s already when he cut the BZHRK
      1. +2
        1 June 2016 21: 57
        Quote: kuz363
        Thanks also to Putin, it’s already when he cut the BZHRK

        Because we complied with the agreements, unlike mattresses ... but under Putin, the BZHRK was also returned to duty.
  21. +1
    1 June 2016 09: 22
    Quote: denvar555
    To assess the scale of the lost, it is enough to familiarize yourself with one of the former points of deployment of the BZHRK
    http://navoine.info/stanciya-bershet-baza-bjrk-stolyarenko.html

    The second photo from the beginning in the article and the fifth photo by Eugene Stolyarenko ...

    And this is in our Kostroma:

    http://zhigane.livejournal.com/19494.html
  22. -13
    1 June 2016 09: 32
    And they coped with the task, leaving behind a weapon that they could not create in the USA.

    Did the Americans try? Or does the author doubt the technological ability of the bourgeois to place the same Trident on railway platforms?



    In general, the legend says that the idea of ​​deploying ICBMs on railway platforms belongs precisely to the Americans who threw it to the KGB ...

    IMHO one nuclear submarine is much more dangerous than the division of Well done. hi
    1. +10
      1 June 2016 09: 38
      They tried. But the problem was where it was not expected - Private Property.
      Google dear professor.
      1. -7
        1 June 2016 10: 00
        Quote: ShadowCat
        They tried. But the problem was where it was not expected - Private Property.

        Private property did not stand in the way of the development of this project. The prototype of the train with the model of the rocket drove along the tracks without problems. The real rocket was surpassed by rail to 5500 850 miles. The train did not receive development due to the lack of expediency.
        The Deseret News - Mar 21, 1961
        https://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=336&dat=19610321&id=gLdOAAAAIBAJ&sjid=dkk


        DAAAAIBAJ & pg = 2757,4001375 & hl = en

        The Deseret News - Jul 21, 1962
        https://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=336&dat=19620721&id=cYhaAAAAIBAJ&sjid=_0k


        DAAAAIBAJ & pg = 5743,4077988 & hl = en
        1. +8
          1 June 2016 10: 39
          Americans are forever unavailable for what they cannot do.

          Quote: professor
          The real rocket was surpassed by 5500 850 miles by rail

          So what? I also drove a lot of things on sleds, but this does not say that I was engaged in freight transportation.
          In addition to "rolling" the rocket (by the way, you need to take into account that the rails have a certain maximum load parameter. We just replaced the rails, which is why now the railway can carry heavier loads. The Yankee railway is in private hands and it is more difficult to do it) it still needs run, and this is where the problem arises. How not to threaten a wagon with a combat crew plus a railway track.
          1. -8
            1 June 2016 12: 13
            Quote: ShadowCat
            Ну и что?

            And nothing. No private owner was indignant and no private property became an obstacle.

            Quote: ShadowCat
            In addition to "rolling" the rocket (by the way, you need to take into account that the rails have a certain maximum load parameter.

            We drove a real rocket and no problems, especially since the burden (or how it is right) among the bourgeois judging by the photo is not a problem. However, as are the dimensions.

            Quote: ShadowCat
            The Yankees have railway in private hands and this is more difficult to do) it still needs to be launched, and here the problem arises. How not to threaten a wagon with combat crew plus a railway track.

            Again. They drove a real rocket on the railway and not a single private owner sued. What is the problem?

            Quote: denvar555
            Absolutely right.

            Not just true, but also "absolutely right"? Apparently you have at hand a document confirming this and you are only waiting to be asked to show it? I ask, I even beg to show it to us. Pliz, pliz, pliz.
        2. -2
          1 June 2016 10: 43
          They simply could not do it or it turned out to be too expensive.
        3. msm
          msm
          +1
          2 June 2016 12: 48
          I agree that the Amers have a huge fleet and bases around the perimeter of Russia. They needless such trains on their territory.
      2. +2
        1 June 2016 10: 12
        Quote: ShadowCat
        They tried. But the problem was where it was not expected - Private Property.
        Google dear professor.

        I agree with you. In the book "Strategic" Well done "by VS Mikhailov there is also a photo of the American MHRK" MX "and the reasons why this complex did not go into service with the US SAC.
        Quote: professor
        In general, the legend says that the idea of ​​deploying ICBMs on railway platforms belongs precisely to the Americans who threw it to the KGB ...

        Professor: You are right that this is a legend, but the roots of this legend must be sought in railway artillery, the idea came from there to put rocket launchers on heavy-duty railway conveyors.
        1. +1
          1 June 2016 10: 41
          Quote: Amurets
          must be sought in railway artillery

          Rather, in our love of armored trains;)
          1. +3
            1 June 2016 11: 16
            Quote: ShadowCat
            Rather, in our love of armored trains;)

            Love for armored trains is one thing, but urgent strengthening of the defense of the coast of our seas is another. In the 20s, A.G. Dukelsky, the designer of the Metal Plant, proposed to put large-caliber artillery on specially designed railway transporters. This is how the TM-1- artillery systems were created. 14; TM-2-12; TM-3-12; One link: VS Mikhailov. Strategic "Well done". Amirkhanov: "Sea guns on the railroad." Bragin: "Guns on the rails. Well and Shirokorad" The time of the big guns. "
            1. 0
              1 June 2016 11: 56
              Wow, what a cool kid. Sales did not know about this.
              Thank you! good soldier
      3. -3
        1 June 2016 10: 41
        Absolutely right. Private property has ruined them, it will ruin our entire project.
    2. +3
      1 June 2016 13: 07
      Quote: professor
      In general, the legend says that the idea of ​​deploying ICBMs on railway platforms belongs precisely to the Americans who threw it to the KGB ...

      IMHO one nuclear submarine is much more dangerous than the division of Well done.

      ... and so much so that the Wehrmacht began to design "rocket trains". Did the Soviets just develop the idea?

      And there are doubts about the Premier League ...
      1. -8
        1 June 2016 13: 14
        Quote: Rus2012
        ..and so much that the Wehrmacht began to design "rocket trains". Did the Soviets just develop the idea?

        Well? request

        It is believed that after the war, the achievements of Nazi Germany came to the Americans. There is even a version that US intelligence specifically organized a leak of information about the German nuclear train project and its development in the United States. The goal was to draw the USSR into a very expensive and complex project and thereby undermine the economic potential of the Soviets. But, as you know, the Americans did not succeed in creating their own BZHRK, but here we have such a military railway missile system that soon appeared.
        A new "rocket train" will appear in Russia
        1. +6
          1 June 2016 13: 32
          Quote: professor
          The goal was to draw the USSR into a very expensive and complex project and thereby undermine the economic potential of the Soviets.

          BZHRK was not expensive and expensive. Transport BZHRK occupied only a fraction of the total military traffic.
          And as for the alteration, arrangement of railway, so it only went to the benefit of the national economy:
          - heavy and extra-heavy trains and multi-axle twin cars appeared,
          - on the roads, respectively, lay "heavy rails" of the R-75 type,
          - new roads were built, including BAM, "local BAMs", bridges and tunnels ...

          By the way, PGRK also contributed to the emergence of new networks of roads of different classes, bridges, crossings and other things.
          T.ch. not everything is so costly and obvious ...
          1. -1
            1 June 2016 13: 54
            Quote: Rus2012
            T.ch. not everything is so costly and obvious ...

            Am I about it? I’m talking about the history of its occurrence, allegedly problems with private property and the effectiveness of the complex compared to nuclear submarines.

            Quote: Rus2012
            ... by the way, what about "Calibers" in sea containers and during railway transportation?

            I am against it because it contradicts the Geneva Convention prohibiting the disguise of military facilities as civilian. However, purely technically it is interesting.

            Quote: Rus2012
            3,14ndos will continue to move the ABM - they will get a headache from this side too:

            For the 10000000th time, their missile defense cannot harm Russia in any way. Try to learn it.
            1. +5
              1 June 2016 15: 03
              Quote: professor
              this is contrary to the Geneva Convention prohibiting the disguise of military installations as civilian.

              ... oh?
              Where is that fine line distinguishing a civilian object from a military one:
              - transportation of military goods is not marked by external observation. The degree of readiness for the use of military cargo is also not specified.
              - reduction of stealth technologies to the "invisibility of weapons", incl. what does it refer to?
              -It is known that all civilian objects of the Russian Federation such as nuclear power plants, hydroelectric power stations, nodal depots - are the targets of a nuclear strike by the Yankees. By the way, in Yugoslavia they destroyed as a matter of priority almost all the significant objects - bridges, thermal power plants, oil storage facilities, is that not a crime?

              3,14Indos often shoot civilian columns, school-hospitals, kindergartens - is that what you think? Not a crime?
              1. -9
                1 June 2016 15: 08
                Quote: Rus2012
                ... oh?

                Yeah. You cannot disguise a battle cruiser as a floating hospital, a tank as a school bus, and an ICBM launcher as a passenger train.

                Quote: Rus2012
                3,14Indos often shoot civilian columns, school-hospitals, kindergartens - is that what you think? Not a crime?

                And they also lynch blacks. I was naive to think that the article was about BZHRK, but it turns out to be about inferiority complexes and objects of envy ("3,14ndosy", "geyeropop").

                All the best to you.hi
                1. +5
                  1 June 2016 17: 23
                  Quote: professor
                  Yeah. You cannot disguise a battle cruiser as a floating hospital, a tank as a school bus, and an ICBM launcher as a passenger train.

                  ... and who suggested we do this?

                  But behind the cordon all the time -
                  The adaptive camouflage system from the British company BAE Systems disguises military equipment in the infrared range. Special screens not only turn the equipment into invisibility on the thermal imager screen, but can also imitate civilian objects. For example, turn a tank into a bus.



                  If you use this system to turn a tank into something that looks like a civilian vehicle on enemy radars, this again does not fit into the rules of war established by the Geneva Convention

                  In the photo "An example of text output on board"
                  1. -7
                    1 June 2016 18: 21
                    Quote: Rus2012
                    ..and who suggested we do this?

                    For example, those who hide ICBMs in the "passenger train".

                    Quote: Rus2012
                    but can also imitate civilian objects

                    Or they may not imitate. So far, such an imitation has not been implemented in practice.

                    Quote: Rus2012
                    If you use this system to turn a tank into something that looks like a civilian vehicle on enemy radars, this again does not fit into the rules of war established by the Geneva Convention

                    And therefore it remains only in theory.

                    Quote: Army 2
                    Indeed, it is impossible to disguise a cruiser as a hospital ship. But, if you carefully read the Geneva Conventions and additional protocols to them, you will see that it is generally impossible to fight.

                    We will cancel the conventions, so they prevent us from fighting, or will we stick to them?

                    Quote: Army 2
                    By the way, the Israel Defense Forces in terms of disguise and imitation ahead of the rest.

                    I have never seen a tank in the Tsakhal disguise as a bus (although technically they can do it) or fighters on the battlefield were transported in ambulances. Maybe you saw this? Share it.
                2. +1
                  1 June 2016 19: 22
                  a tank for a school bus? I want to see ... and the laws of the Sea do not apply to the laws of Land, so this is an unfortunate example ... and here's why: is a cargo plane a civilian or military facility? Is the moving train with wagons a civilian or military facility? Is the malware a civilian or military target? But it is clear where our "partners" will persuade diplomats when this topic becomes dangerous for them. Thanks.
                  1. 0
                    2 June 2016 07: 15
                    Quote: Makarov
                    a tank for a school bus? I want to see ... and the laws of the Sea do not apply to the laws of Land, so this is an unfortunate example ... and here's why: is a cargo plane a civilian or military facility? Is the moving train with wagons a civilian or military facility? Is the malware a civilian or military target? But it is clear where our "partners" will persuade diplomats when this topic becomes dangerous for them. Thanks.

                    The Hague Trebunal will answer all your questions. If anything...

                    Quote: Svidetel 45
                    All that is good for the security of my country and people is legal and acceptable, and you went with your ingenious rules for suckers as far as possible.

                    Experiments on prisoners and children? Let women and children of the enemy in front of their troops as a human shield? If this is good for the security of your country and people, is that legal and acceptable?

                    Quote: Svidetel 45
                    So is he. professor mows down a fool, does not understand how missile defense can not harm Russia in the possibility of retaliating

                    This is not understood not only by me, but by anyone who held the globe in their hands.

                    Quote: kuz363
                    It's time to put one device silently at the Geneva Conventions

                    Even the Hitlerites did not completely "silently put one device on the Geneva Conventions", and did you decide to put it on? Oh well.

                    Quote: Corsair
                    And if they do not push missile defense there? Yes, even with YBCh God forbid.

                    And if grandmother will have grandfather's primary sexual characteristics? And if they hide their Tomahawks in 53-pound containers? And if ... And if ...
                    1. +4
                      2 June 2016 07: 18
                      Quote: professor
                      The Hague Trebunal will answer all your questions. If anything...

                      Hence the conclusion, the first missile at the Hague Tribunal If that ...
                      The second to the Strasbourg court so that there are absolutely no illusions ...
                      1. 0
                        2 June 2016 07: 28
                        Quote: Ruslan67
                        Hence the conclusion, the first missile at the Hague Tribunal If that ...
                        The second to the Strasbourg court so that there are absolutely no illusions ...

                        I understand how much these conventions, tribunals and all this international riffraff are annoying. She annoys me too. It got to the point that every division commander and brigade commander, and sometimes even a battalion commander in Tsakhal there is a legal adviser who "approves" or "disapproves" of every blow. And it is not uncommon for the commander to disapprove and cancel this blow. We do not live on a desert island. You already know the word sanction ...
                      2. +2
                        2 June 2016 07: 38
                        Quote: professor
                        a legal advisor who "approves" or "disapproves" of each blow.

                        And were there any losses among them? bully
                        Quote: professor
                        You already know the word of sanction ...

                        Well, as if on the side recourse Atalef will confirm Yes And if it comes to serious things, then there’s no matter how abruptly it’s spitting. I’m not from hat throwing ... For the sake of pleasure, I’m ready to do without an Israeli strawberry laughing
                      3. +2
                        2 June 2016 07: 44
                        Quote: Ruslan67
                        And were there any losses among them?

                        EMNIP was not there. These bespectacles do not go on the attack.

                        Quote: Ruslan67
                        Well, as if on the side

                        But this is not necessary. Even the sale of drugs in your country fell to a record "military" level. Seeing people decided not to get sick ...

                        Although there were no real sanctions yet.

                        Quote: Ruslan67
                        For the pleasure of seeing a funnel at the scene of a human rights court, I’m ready to do without Israeli strawberries

                        It's easy to be bold in front of the keyboard.
                      4. +3
                        2 June 2016 07: 51
                        Quote: professor
                        It's easy to be bold in front of the keyboard.

                        Well, why so immediately crying This is again to Sanka request Enlighten Yes
                        Quote: professor
                        Even the sale of drugs in your country fell to a record "military" level. Seeing people decided not to get sick ...

                        A neighbor works in a pharmacy. They didn’t fall ill. But they pressed the doctors very hard, they just stopped injecting buds and expensive imports. I know this on my own. Now they have to write out something before asking what? and offer a choice of ours or import
                        Quote: professor
                        These bespectacles do not go on the attack.

                        And in the toilet, the ceilings do not fall a point?
                      5. 0
                        2 June 2016 07: 57
                        Quote: Ruslan67
                        A neighbor works in a pharmacy. She didn’t fall.

                        In Russia, drug sales have declined significantly

                        Quote: Ruslan67
                        And in the toilet, the ceilings do not fall a point?

                        Not understood?
                      6. +4
                        2 June 2016 08: 03
                        Quote: professor
                        Not understood?

                        Well, since they don’t go on the attack ... Losses can be non-combat bully but let's say ... related feel
                        And as for the drugs in Russia, now they will again say that Peter And Moscow is not all, etc. But for a minute, 15 percent of the population of the country Yes, and statistics are crafty things. The neighbor’s pharmacy revenue is growing steadily. So we won’t argue. I'm not special
                3. +3
                  1 June 2016 20: 25
                  All that is good for the security of my country and people is legal and acceptable, and you went with your ingenious rules for suckers as far as possible.
                  1. 0
                    1 June 2016 22: 04
                    I support soldier
                  2. +1
                    15 June 2016 09: 36
                    Right! It’s not hell to listen to these US henchmen, they take the conversation aside and try to convince us that our homeland cannot be defended.
                4. 0
                  1 June 2016 22: 01
                  You protect "ours", we protect ours.
              2. +1
                1 June 2016 17: 02
                They don’t have enough warheads to hit all our Strategic Missile Forces, Air Defense, Strategic Missile Forces objects — 1820 warheads are needed, and the United States has 1640 on constant duty — so civilian objects will have to be forgotten.
              3. +1
                3 June 2016 18: 22
                So the Geneva Convention prohibits disguising military facilities as objects of the Red Cross mission, there is not a word about disguising as cargo ships and trains.
            2. +2
              1 June 2016 16: 57
              those. how can this missile defense not harm Russia?
              1. +2
                1 June 2016 22: 04
                So is he. professor mows down a fool, does not understand how missile defense can not harm Russia in the possibility of retaliating
            3. 0
              1 June 2016 18: 48
              Quote: professor
              10000000th time, their missile defense cannot harm Russia in any way. Try to learn it.

              And if they do not push missile defense there? Yes, even with YBCh God forbid.
              Why don’t they put up a missile defense system in Iraq since such bright elves are encrypted against Iran or xs in Afghanistan? Closer to us, but marking the very borders.
            4. 0
              1 June 2016 20: 21
              You play the fool, professor, how it cannot be harmed, if this missile defense neutralizes our nuclear strike forces, then they will no doubt be tempted to strike first and feel safe if the military-political situation worsens.
            5. 0
              1 June 2016 21: 52
              It's time to put one device silently at the Geneva Conventions
            6. 0
              1 June 2016 21: 59
              You will learn this: to convert PU anti-missile systems for offensive ones is not a tricky business.
            7. 0
              2 June 2016 05: 32
              Let them give legal guarantees. Why not give? Because dual-use missile defense. Learn it.
    3. +2
      1 June 2016 13: 45
      Quote: professor
      IMHO one nuclear submarine is much more dangerous than the division of Well done.

      ... by the way, what about "Calibers" in sea containers and during railway transportation? :)))))))))))))))))

      3,14ndos will continue to move the ABM - they will get a headache from this side too:
      - on the railway roads of Cuba, for example, and any other barges near the 12-mile zone of "tin".
      - and on roklad with raguli, which are being completed, and 2,5 thousand kilometers in radius, against Romanians and Psheks and other geyeropop,

      upon exit from the INF Treaty
    4. +3
      1 June 2016 15: 40
      The Americans simply "did not have enough brains" and patience. They were also strangled by a toad from the prospect of rebuilding the railway track and the rest of the infrastructure.
      “On the basis of the complex criterion“ efficiency / cost ”, railway and ground methods of basing missiles, MX and Midgetman, respectively, were proposed, with the further deployment of research and development work.2 It was noted that an experimental version of a combat railway missile system passed field tests at the Western Missile Range (AvB Vandenberg, California) until 1991. Sea trials were also carried out at the US railway range ..............
      At the same time, according to foreign experts, the production of a prototype BZHRK in the standard configuration and its comprehensive tests were not completed, and some design solutions turned out to be untenable. Later this was confirmed by the results of the work of Russian inspection teams at the Western Missile Range and other facilities of the US SNS. So, the first test launch of a missile from a railway launcher for technical reasons did not take place and was replaced by a throw test using a cargo model. In this regard, a solution to the problem of diverting the jet stream from the launch module when starting the main engine of the rocket after its ejection from the container is not visible. This could lead to the destruction of the launch car and the railway section. It is known that the MX rocket did not have evasion engines, since it was developed for a silo-based version. The definition of the composition, appearance and requirements for the facilities of the permanent basing points of rocket trains and railway infrastructure was discontinued at the stage of preliminary design. Combat patrol methods using an experienced BZHRK on a real railway network have not been worked out. It was not possible to create high-precision systems for navigation support of the complex and missile aiming when preparing launches from any suitable for this, including electrified, sections of the railways. It can be assumed that methods for removing the overhead wire before lifting the container with the rocket to the launch position have not been developed. Comprehensive resource and transport tests of the BZHRK were not carried out in various conditions, with the launch of combat patrols on real routes and the development of combat training tasks. The problems of creating a centralized control system for combat patrolling of the BZHRK on the railways, which, moreover, had a significant number of unmasking signs, have not been resolved. "
    5. 0
      3 June 2016 13: 10
      The difference lies in the fact that we created BZHRK A S NO.
  23. +3
    1 June 2016 10: 28
    Many generations no longer simply understand what nuclear war is. If you test on the New Earth, then perhaps the rhetoric would change.
    Due to changes in the geopolitical situation and technological progress in the area of ​​missile defense, the only argument will soon become a land mine (s) deeply buried in the ground with a capacity of 50-100 mH.
  24. +3
    1 June 2016 10: 50
    For me this is: The forgotten old-key word is old, if you come back to something, then at another, at a higher level ... there must be a new "vishka" .... but is it? Or that one has not yet been fully disclosed?

    I think the military-industrial complex should pay no less attention not only to the number of retaliation, but also the creation of effective production and management, as a result of additional power to create breakthrough systems ... bent)))

    It’s easier: if you build a steam engine again, so that you can fly and give it to everyone .......
    1. +1
      1 June 2016 10: 57
      The idea of ​​the BZHRK itself was once progressive and has not lost its relevance today. To complicate it so far would not be worth it.
  25. 0
    1 June 2016 11: 13
    Those who doubt our peacefulness will drown in blood !!! For our mercy is merciless !!!
    1. 0
      3 June 2016 13: 20
      Sirloin steak with blood and crisp Ilovaisky or DEBALTSEVO. ON CHOICE AND ONLY FOR PREPARERS.
  26. +2
    1 June 2016 11: 29
    Quote: iouris
    the only argument will soon become a landmine (s) deeply buried in the ground with a capacity of 50-100 mH.


    better in the ocean, next to the tectonic fault ... - the tsunami will also wash American stables ... :) moreover, that's all.
  27. +3
    1 June 2016 11: 47
    The SHAFT needs to be wiggled faster so that the Barguzins are on duty on time. Then it will be possible to talk in a different way.
    1. 0
      1 June 2016 22: 10
      And in order to quickly, it is necessary to change the mood in society, to eradicate slackness, especially among the ruling elite, and not a country for a market economy, and the economy should work for the country, even if you have to turn it completely into a non-market, but a mobilization one, when it smells of fried. then not fat. but to live.
  28. 0
    1 June 2016 11: 57
    "Barguzin" will be lighter and will not differ from civilian versions
  29. +1
    1 June 2016 13: 13
    Give Barguzin !!! good
  30. +1
    1 June 2016 14: 12
    Good, practical article.
    No secrets were given out (and it’s not necessary), but it’s written clearly not even so much for me (I know how much is allowed according to non-secret data), but even my wife understood and imbued ...
    So let's drink for two purposes:
    1. So that the BZHRK were in service with us,
    2. So that you do not have to apply them.
    and on the 3rd - so that without such a war.

    PS: I did not know that these were brothers - Utkin. Vladimir - who doesn't know him now, the Yuzhnoye design bureau (now the enemy, if at all remains), a worthy student of Yangel. Alexey Utkin is much less known, but, unfortunately, less. Two brothers and academics - it's still to look for similar cases.
    1. 0
      1 June 2016 16: 07
      Quote: alex71

      PS: I did not know that these were brothers - Utkin. Vladimir - who doesn't know him now, the Yuzhnoye design bureau (now the enemy, if at all remains), a worthy student of Yangel. Alexey Utkin is much less known, but, unfortunately, less. Two brothers and academics - it's still to look for similar cases.

      Look, I came across the book "Rockets and Spacecraft of the Yuzhnoye Design Bureau" on the Internet.
  31. +1
    1 June 2016 14: 14
    Recently, there was a link about 6 US seismic stations to control such trains under the OSVTK agreement. For me there was news, knowing about this in detail, please share. To remove a couple of unpleasant questions. hi
  32. The comment was deleted.
  33. The comment was deleted.
  34. +7
    1 June 2016 17: 01
    Quote: professor
    Quote: Rus2012
    ... oh?

    Yeah. You can’t disguise a battle cruiser as a floating hospital.

    Dear Professor, allow me to note your manner of conducting the discussion. You constantly emphasize the incompetence of opponents. Maybe that's right. There is a legion of such in VO.
    But here you distorted the information.
    Indeed, it is impossible to disguise a cruiser as a hospital ship. But, if you carefully read the Geneva Conventions and additional protocols to them, you will see that it is generally impossible to fight.
    As for, in your words, the disguise of "a tank as a school bus, and an ICBM launcher as a passenger train," everything is not so simple. Masks are masking (concealing) and imitating. For example, a country house was made of plywood or canvas over a tank. This is the imitation mask. Imitating masks are provided by instructions in the armies of almost all states. By the way, the Israel Defense Forces are ahead of the rest of the planet in terms of camouflage and imitation. I'm sure you know that.
    1. 0
      1 June 2016 19: 19
      Quote: professor
      Yeah. You cannot disguise a battle cruiser as a floating hospital, a tank as a school bus, and an ICBM launcher as a passenger train.

      something I don’t quite understand the Geneva Convention. On our territory, we can do whatever we consider necessary (even peacetime has nothing to do with it). Or attacking us, in our territory has any prerogatives in rights?
  35. -3
    1 June 2016 18: 24
    Only Russia, by its stupidity, could destroy the BZHRK, and then 20 years later announce the creation of the BZHRK. lol lol lol
    1. +7
      1 June 2016 18: 45
      Quote: Yak28
      Only Russia, by its stupidity, could destroy the BZHRK, and then 20 years later announce the creation of the BZHRK. lol lol lol

      Not Russia, but provocateurs in power.
      1. -2
        1 June 2016 18: 56
        But who supported the provocateurs, who voted for them?
        1. +4
          1 June 2016 19: 00
          Quote: Yak28
          But who supported the provocateurs, who voted for them?

          There is a simple Russian word-trust. People trusted in Mechneny with his glasnost and perestroika, and the EBN, who stupidly crawled out in contrast and stupefied people with his self-determination. From which the great country fell apart ... if a person believes, this does not mean that he stupid ... people just wanted change, and provocateurs took advantage of this.
    2. 0
      1 June 2016 22: 09
      Thanks to Gorbatom negative
    3. +1
      1 June 2016 22: 13
      Not Russia, but those idiots, and maybe outright traitors who, by the will of fate, were at the top of power in Russia.
    4. 0
      1 June 2016 22: 53
      Quote: Yak28
      Only Russia, by its stupidity, could destroy the BZHRK, and then 20 years later announce the creation of the BZHRK. lol lol lol

      Only by its stupidity can we write such a crap. hi
    5. 0
      3 June 2016 13: 22
      Warranty period has expired.
  36. +1
    1 June 2016 18: 41
    "PS: I didn't know that they were brothers - Utkin. Vladimir - who doesn't know him now, KB" Yuzhnoye "(now enemy, if at all left), a worthy student of Yangel. Alexey Utkin is known much less, but, it's a pity , which is less. Two brothers and academicians - it's still to look for similar cases. "

    It will be fair to add the letters Ut."Barguzin-Ut" in memory of two outstanding designers of the nuclear missile shield of Russia, the Utkin brothers. Moreover, the invaders in Ukraine are doing everything to erase the memory of its Russian roots and Russian achievements in science and technology! And for our servants and civilians, such a mention of brothers will be a worthy example of serving the Motherland!
  37. +2
    1 June 2016 19: 19
    Thanks for the great article! It is encouraging! Provides such a thrill! .. And then on 31.05.2016/1/XNUMX I watched the "Vesti.dok" program on "Russia XNUMX" ... where they told me in detail how many times we have LESS weapons compared to NATO in Eastern Europe near the borders of my Motherland. .. I will not hide, I felt sad. (Why such defeatist thoughts?) In general, I slept peacefully. Thanks!
  38. +3
    1 June 2016 19: 22
    Even from a satellite it was difficult to distinguish BZHRK from the usual mixed composition. The only thing that could give BZHRK - it built locomotives. But over time, more powerful diesel locomotives were developed, and there were two locomotives.

    In those years, there really were problems with the identification of the detected target, since the resolution of the satellites was much worse than that of modern ones. What the BZHRK could give out was not only built locomotives, but also a very "short" train of 17 cars. While 2-3 locomotives "dragged" a train of half a hundred wagons. There have never been TWO locomotives on the BZHRK. And in general, it's not about whether the locomotive was powerful or not. just a tactical scheme for using BZHRK meant exactly THREE locomotives

    Of course, the development of technology has affected the appearance and composition of the new BZHRK. Three (and even two) powerful locomotives are likely to replace one. As an option - gas turbine locomotive GT1-001 (locomotive with a gas turbine engine).

    Three diesel locomotives were not because of their power, but because of the tactical flexibility of this scheme

    In service with one BZHRK there will be not one, but 6 missiles. And one train will be equated to the regiment.

    There was NEVER ONE rocket in the BZHRK

    The RS-26 missile system, aka Yars-M, aka Avangard, aka Boundary. In the modification specifically for BZHRK it will be "Frontier".

    Yeah, of course. Do not confuse the statement that the missile design will be based on the groundwork of the Yars, Rubezh, Bulava complexes and completely unfounded statements that it will be exactly RS-26 / Yars-M / Avangard / Rubezh

    TR-23 was solid fuel

    Actually RT-23 ...

    Quote: Moore
    Were three locomotives needed only for traction? They were pulling the "train" into a scattered battle formation - how will one, even a super-powerful gas turbine locomotive, cope with this?

    The right question. And nobody thinks about it
  39. 0
    1 June 2016 19: 34
    Quote: Blondy
    But not one hell - it all depends on the point of view.

    It all depends on the supply of material. I like it more. Ask Japanese students who dropped bombs on their cities. Surprise all the supply of material.
  40. 0
    1 June 2016 19: 38
    Previously, these trains were visible on double wheeled trolleys (4 trolleys per wagon), is the new version devoid of this drawback?
    1. 0
      2 June 2016 00: 12
      Quote: Munchhausen
      Previously, these trains were visible on double wheeled trolleys (4 trolleys per wagon), is the new version devoid of this drawback?

      There is such a fundamental parameter on railway transport: "LOAD FROM AXLE ON RAILS". This means that on one axle, like in a car, the load should not be more than indicated in the documents on the track. Since different rails can withstand different loads. Specifically, in those areas where the deployment of the BZHRK was planned, the R-75 rails were laid and the corresponding track structure was made, calculated for a load of 25 tons from the axis. And this means that the bridge infrastructure of the Ministry of Railways had to be strengthened under this load. that the axle load on the rails should be no more than 24 tons, and depending on the weight of the starting car, calculate the number of axles.
  41. 0
    1 June 2016 19: 51
    Vsezh interesting how they push the circuit apart, and there is the tension of the wire and 25 kV ???? are they short?
  42. The comment was deleted.
  43. 0
    1 June 2016 19: 58
    Quote: Munchhausen
    Previously, these trains were visible on double wheeled trolleys (4 trolleys per wagon), is the new version devoid of this drawback?

    Nobody can say that yet. It is unlikely that they have already been developed (in the final version, launcher cars. There have not even been throw tests yet. But logically, most likely the new version will be free from this drawback
  44. -1
    1 June 2016 20: 04
    It is believedthat after the war, the achievements of Nazi Germany came to the Americans. There is even such a versionthat US intelligence ...
    Everything. Stop.
  45. +1
    1 June 2016 20: 16
    Well, nothing, nothing will launch the new BZHRK anyway.
    It is a fact. I myself am an employee of Russian Railways, of course not from the top echelon, but I will tell you the train will be. This link and the Perimeter system are a guarantee of our future.
    1. +1
      1 June 2016 20: 52
      Quote: D. Dan
      This link and the Perimeter system are a guarantee of our future.

      So you don’t consider our missile defense an argument at all? Systems like A-235, S-350/400/500 do not count at all?
  46. 0
    1 June 2016 20: 30
    You can track. But not in real time. What is the use of knowing that the train was there and there even half an hour ago? This is actually the main advantage of the complex, in which it even surpasses the plab.
    1. +1
      1 June 2016 21: 01
      Quote: certero
      You can track. But not in real time.

      It depends on how you get to the point. It would be nice to create trains of clones of the BZHRK, only inside, for example, would be the S-400. In the event of an aggravation of the situation, such a train can be pulled very quickly to a vital center. Access roads at such facilities are usually present. It is technically possible to technically organize the automatic delivery of missiles to the S-400ZHD, and this opens up opportunities for repulsing a massive strike against an object.
      In this situation, tracking BZHRK will turn into a game of thimbles.
  47. 0
    1 June 2016 21: 00
    Roman, hello to you! I’m not writing my friend, I’m just shy and afraid that I’m presumptuous to shamelessness. I’m always wondering, and what kind of thing is ... sorry for the expression the bastard puts minuses on EVERYTHING, emphasizing all the normal patriotic publications on VO? you can ban, but I remain of my opinion: it’s bastard (for the most advanced I explain the meaning of this word: rotten carcass of a domestic and not just an animal, not buried in the ground). you know, tired of reading and repelling all these publications! this position reminds me very much of Akhejakova’s posture, and I see her face ... uuuu woman’s idiot, I would have shot! from a slingshot, and into the left eye! Ato, that with our hand the drivers finally realized that our country has only two allies, so thank God! hi
    1. 0
      15 June 2016 09: 57
      Not two, but three - the army, navy and VKS.
  48. 0
    1 June 2016 21: 31
    "One BZHRK will be armed with not one, but 6 missiles." As far as I read, there were 3 missiles in the BZHRK.
    The author writes, "At the time of decommissioning, Russia had three missile divisions (Kostroma, Perm and Krasnoyarsk), a total of 12 trains with 36 launchers."
  49. 0
    1 June 2016 21: 55
    Quote: kuz363
    The author writes: “At the time of decommissioning, Russia had three missile divisions (Kostroma, Perm and Krasnoyarsk), a total of 12 trains with 36 launchers

    The author is absolutely right. THREE divisions, 4 regiments each. Three start-up modules in each. Total 36 missiles

    Quote: TOR2
    It would be nice to create trains of clones of the BZHRK, only inside, for example, would be the S-400. In the event of an aggravation of the situation, such a train can be pulled very quickly to a vital center. Access roads at such facilities are usually present. It is technically possible to technically organize the automatic delivery of missiles to the S-400ZHD, and this opens up opportunities for repulsing a massive strike against an object.

    What the hell? It is unlikely that it (S-400ZHD) will be more mobile than the usual S-400 on a car chassis. In addition, the linear arrangement of the launchers of the division will not give the same flexibility as with the normal arrangement of PU launchers. Plus recharge. How many times will it be possible to produce it and how?
    1. +1
      1 June 2016 22: 01
      Quote: Old26
      Quote: TOR2
      It would be nice to create trains of clones of the BZHRK, only inside, for example, would be the S-400. In the event of an aggravation of the situation, such a train can be pulled very quickly to a vital center. Access roads at such facilities are usually present. It is technically possible to technically organize the automatic delivery of missiles to the S-400ZHD, and this opens up opportunities for repulsing a massive strike against an object.
      What the hell? It is unlikely that it (S-400ZHD) will be more mobile than the usual S-400 on a car chassis. In addition, the linear arrangement of the launchers of the division will not give the same flexibility as with the normal arrangement of PU launchers. Plus recharge. How many times will it be possible to produce it and how?

      The idea is not so crazy in essence ... only instead of the S-400 it would be quite possible to put the CLAB-K installations on the rails only, not an export version, and with a range of 1500-2500 km, under the guise of the same cars.
      1. 0
        1 June 2016 22: 33
        Quote: NEXUS
        CLAB-K installations


        Club complex is called.
    2. +1
      1 June 2016 22: 32
      Look, the S-400ZHD will be able to move at the speed of a freight train. The usual S-400 car chassis is heavy for such speeds. The linear arrangement of launchers, this is an emergency, in the standard scenario, they are dispersed along the access roads of the facility. The role of the charging machine will be performed by a neighboring car, or rather several cars. The launcher has developed, the hatches have opened and the flow of missiles from a neighboring carriage has begun. Launches can be made as many as fit rockets in a car or several cars (for example two). It is difficult to say how many missiles will be removed taking into account the devices of the automatic transporter. As soon as the missiles end in a diesel locomotive, we customize the next charging group of cars. Something like this.
  50. 0
    1 June 2016 22: 05
    That would be Barguzin based Sapsan still do. wassat
  51. 0
    1 June 2016 22: 11
    Quote: D. Dan
    Well, never mind, they will launch a new BZHRK anyway. This is a fact.

    This is far from a fact. At least according to the same Solomonov, after the BI there will be practical launches and only based on their results will a decision be made on the full-scale deployment of work on the complex. Or it won't be accepted...
  52. +2
    1 June 2016 22: 53
    Quote: NEXUS
    The idea is not so crazy in essence ... only instead of the S-400 it would be quite possible to put the CLAB-K installations on the rails only, not an export version, and with a range of 1500-2500 km, under the guise of the same cars.

    Andrey, I’m afraid that the idea will be as crazy as the S-400zhd. Let's just say that although our railway network is developed, in this case the nearest railway line from the Russian border is somewhere on average under 100 km. Theoretically, such a train can be launched, but you shouldn’t think that the enemy is completely stupid. Moreover, the relief in Europe does not always resemble a smooth surface like a table. This means the flight will not be in a straight line. This means that the flight path, at least the corridors, can be calculated with varying degrees of reliability. Since the correction areas must still have some relief features. Plus concentrate air defense there. And taking into account subsonic speed, the missile will reach the target in 2-3 hours. Yes, and a strike on certain border sections of the railway can be delivered and will put an end to the mobility of such complexes. And if the BZHRK doesn’t care about all this with its range of 10-12 thousand kilometers, then for the Kyrgyz Republic this may already be critical.
    That is, at first glance it is tempting. And there will be a lot of problems
  53. +1
    1 June 2016 23: 28
    Quote: AFG-X
    That would be Barguzin based Sapsan still do. wassat

    You are both an inventor and a strategist... belay And it’s okay that the Sapsan runs EMNIP on one line: Moscow-St. Petersburg. And so far nowhere else...

    Quote: TOR2
    The linear arrangement of launchers is a last resort; in the normal situation, they are dispersed along the access roads of the facility.

    Sorry, but there is a strong impression that the object of protection will be located in the center of the “web” of railways, and will have
    this “web” is not 2 branches, but several dozen, like at a large junction station... Sorry, but the object of protection, the same plant, alas, is not surrounded along the perimeter by railways. God grant that there are 2 or 3 entrances to its territory (usually just one). Look at how the division's assets are located, at what distance from each other and in relation to each other. Plus standard radars

    Quote: TOR2
    The role of the charging machine will be performed by a neighboring car, or preferably several cars. The launcher folded up, the hatches opened and missiles were supplied from the adjacent carriage.

    Taking into account the fact that the SAMs in the TPK, God forbid, 1 ammunition load will fit into the next car. And I suspect the dimensions of the launcher itself will protrude beyond the dimensions of the car. How do you organize the supply of missiles from the next car? After all, on the same control panel of the complex they are spaced not only horizontally, but also vertically. Will you be moving the car to install the TPK?

    Quote: TOR2
    It will be possible to carry out as many launches as missiles can fit in a carriage or several carriages (for example, two).

    Yeah. The supply in the first carriage has run out, it is removed, and a second one is put in its place. And the enemy will be circling nearby at this time, waiting for the installation to recharge....

    Quote: TOR2
    As soon as the rockets run out of diesel locomotive, we drive up the next charging group of cars. Something like this.

    And “why goat boyan?” Why all this complexity? Plus a bunch of diesel locomotives? For what? When all this is done normally when starting on a car chassis.
    1. +1
      2 June 2016 11: 12
      As for the development of access roads, this depends on the object. Of course, in relatively small enterprises it is not so great. And if, for example, we take enterprises such as GAZ or KAMAZ, then the length of the tracks and their branching are very significant, as at large railway junctions. The launcher, due to its dimensions, must be retracted into the carriage. TPKs will not be needed here; their role will be played by the transport-charging system. From a technical point of view, it is quite possible to organize the supply of missiles from a neighboring carriage, and several at the same time. The main advantages of such a complex will be high mobility and very short reload time. As for the ammunition, the length of the S-400 missile is 7,5 m. diameter 0,519m. The parameters of the useful area of ​​the car body are 13800 x 2760 x 2790 mm - 120 m3...60 tons. Obviously more than one ammunition can be placed there.
  54. 0
    2 June 2016 07: 32
    Quote: cat 23
    Vsezh interesting how they push the circuit apart, and there is the tension of the wire and 25 kV ???? are they short?

    They shorten and then retract the wires of the contact network towards the CS supports (they do not push the contact network apart, but rather they divert it). On the outer cars of the launch module there were devices called ZOX - system of short-circuiting and tapping of the contact network
  55. 0
    2 June 2016 09: 49
    C-400ZhD.. all marking time. We need a breakthrough solution... like: a field with an explosion, a drone with a laser, and if it’s a missile, then it should shoot down the tamahawk and cover the one who launched it
  56. 0
    2 June 2016 10: 19
    We are peaceful people, but our armored train stands on a siding
  57. 0
    2 June 2016 15: 02
    “Despite Russia’s withdrawal from the START-2 treaty in 2002, during 2003-2007 all trains and launchers were destroyed.” I wonder where the Russian leadership has such trust in its “partners.” And won’t all these new Russian complexes be cut down just like Soviet missiles just because another free-marketeer and democrat comes to an agreement with a very kind American friend and partner?
  58. +1
    2 June 2016 19: 50
    4 brothers from the village and all received education. Then we worked on distribution.
    In our times it is not possible. It is alarming - who will defend the Motherland?
    Managers?
  59. +2
    2 June 2016 21: 09
    a couple of dozen of these Barguzinov... and our partners will stop being indignant. They will come running to negotiate.
  60. 0
    2 June 2016 21: 25
    Quote: TOR2
    As for the development of access roads, this depends on the object. Of course, in relatively small enterprises it is not so great. And if, for example, we take enterprises such as GAZ or KAMAZ, then the length of the tracks and their branching are very significant, as at large railway junctions.

    Yuri! It seems to me that you are confusing two things. Extended and branched paths inside the protection object (plant) paths around any plant. There is no “web” of railway tracks there. Moreover, it is so extensive that it would be possible to deploy air defense systems according to the same scheme as with a launcher on a vehicle chassis. In addition, the S-400 type complex is covered by other complexes, such as, for example, “Thor” and/or “Pantsir”. How will you use them?

    Quote: TOR2
    The launcher, due to its dimensions, must be retracted into the carriage. TPKs will not be needed here; their role will be played by the transport-charging system.

    It should, but will it clean up? What about TPK? The missiles of the S-400 system, like the S-300, are in TRANSPORT AND LAUNCH CONTAINERS.

    Quote: TOR2
    From a technical point of view, it is quite possible to organize the supply of missiles from a neighboring carriage, and several at the same time.

    Can. But for you it will no longer be a carriage with ammunition, but a very complex structure

    Quote: TOR2
    The main advantages of such a complex will be high mobility and very short reload time

    As for the recharge time - sorry, but this is unpredictable without having a ready-made device. High mobility - I wouldn't say. By mobility you only mean speed of movement. But you will not be able to transfer this complex to guard the facility if there are no railway tracks there...

    Quote: asher
    “Despite Russia’s withdrawal from the START-2 treaty in 2002, during 2003-2007 all trains and launchers were destroyed.” I wonder where the Russian leadership has such trust in its “partners.”

    Would you prefer to have in service a complex with an expired warranty period? And as for destruction. It was an approximate exchange. We destroyed the complex's missiles and trains, the Americans - MX
  61. 0
    2 June 2016 22: 06
    For the author - Roman Skomorokhov
    Dear Roman! Signature Hydraulic bearings, which accounted for the load during the launch of the rocket in the starting position not true. This is an instrument platform, an analogue of the automatic gyrocompass (AGC) PGRK
  62. 0
    2 June 2016 22: 30
    Quote: Atlant-1164
    a couple of dozen of these Barguzinov... and our partners will stop being indignant. They will come running to negotiate.

    Why not three or four hundred? Or a couple thousand? This is even better... am
    Can you read? Will be deployed ONE DIVISION as part of FIVE REGULATIONS. Each regiment - COMPOSITION, in which SIX launchers...
    That's all. There are no two or three dozen Barguzins and WILL NOT BE. DON'T DREAM
  63. 0
    3 June 2016 02: 52
    A logical suggestion for a name after “Well done” would be “Vigo”... So that not in the eyebrow, but in the eye of the adversary...
  64. 0
    3 June 2016 05: 22
    Quote: Evil 55
    A logical suggestion for a name after “Well done” would be “Vigo”... So that not in the eyebrow, but in the eye of the adversary...

    Are you sure that after the complex enters service, it will remain Barguzin? Me not. And sometimes there is no logic at all in the names
  65. 0
    3 June 2016 09: 17
    For reasons of secrecy, routes were laid past large stations, and if it was impossible to bypass them, then their rocket trains passed without stops and at dawn, when there were fewer people
    =====================
    The author meant - on a detour.
  66. 0
    3 June 2016 12: 41
    And that’s right, they stand guard over our country, but about all the squeals, the dog barks, and the caravan, excuse me, the train is moving. hi
  67. +1
    3 June 2016 12: 43
    The military needs to develop a similar train for air defense purposes. By placing several dozen vertical anti-aircraft missile launchers in a railway structure, it is possible to ensure the operational organization of an air defense position area anywhere in the country. The height of the car allows it to be equipped with decent anti-aircraft missiles in vertical launchers. Not the S-500, of course, but it can solve different problems by quickly moving closer. A train is not a wheeled vehicle. It can cover a thousand kilometers in a day. For example, accompanying and covering Borguzin. How can I give VVP and Shoigu a hint? What do you think?
  68. 0
    3 June 2016 18: 11
    The news is good and long-awaited.
    Questions only about stealth and locomotive. Why gas? The result is a reduced power reserve, a small amount means they are noticeable, few places for refueling means they are noticeable. Modern locomotives in pairs (for backup) will completely cope with this task. I’m afraid they are again lobbying for the necessary orders to the detriment of the country’s defense capability am
    The issue of camouflage is also alarming. As I already wrote, the disguise is revealed by the gas carrier and gas stations. In addition, you need to understand what the train will look like. Let's hope that they will think of making it completely similar to the cargo one. Otherwise, anyone with the slightest understanding will leak the information, not even out of self-interest, but out of stupidity. Or they will calculate it using an electronic system based on the absence of loading/unloading, destinations, etc.
  69. 0
    3 June 2016 18: 52
    Quote: LeonDG
    How can I give VVP and Shoigu a hint? What do you think?

    No need to give hints DELUSION solutions. We are discussing 30 or 40 posts, no, impatient, again someone wants to place air defense on trains
    1. 0
      3 June 2016 22: 43
      Quote: Old26
      Extended and branched paths inside the protection object (plant) paths around any plant. There is no “web” of railway tracks there. Moreover, it is so extensive that it would be possible to deploy air defense systems according to the same scheme as with a launcher on a vehicle chassis.

      It turns out that such installations, if created, can be used as reinforcement for an already deployed ground force?
      Quote: Old26
      In addition, the S-400 type complex is covered by other complexes, such as, for example, “Thor” and/or “Pantsir”.
      The most difficult thing will be to create the S-400ZhD. With "TORomZhD" and "PantsiremZhD" everything is much simpler, besides, both complexes will receive very good ammunition and an extremely short reload time, otherwise they will lose their meaning as a reinforcement element.
      Then it turns out that such a train will have to include the RanzhirMK battery command post. Through it, the entire railway company will be able to integrate into a single network with underground complexes.
      The main reason for such strengthening at a critical moment is that this “meat grinder” should work non-stop.
      All this does not fit into the usual framework, so you can’t say for sure whether this is a crazy decision or not. We need to build prototypes and see them in practice. Remember how hard it was for a helicopter to make its way into the army.
  70. 0
    3 June 2016 23: 53
    Quote: Old26
    We are discussing 30 or 40 posts, no, impatient, again someone wants to place air defense on trains


    Not just anyone, but a military engineer who served in the Strategic Missile Forces for many years and during his service for several years was involved in the protection of objects in the position area of ​​the OS missile regiment. You Old26 If you read it carefully, you need to drop everything and do nothing. Either the roads are wrong, or there are a lot of locomotives, or the adversary is so aware of our infrastructure that there is no way to hide. And the railway workers are all corrupt, they stand on the tracks with bucks sticking out of their pockets and wait for Burguzin so they can quickly knock Obama.
    You're spouting some bullshit. Many issues and engineering solutions for use in the Russian Armed Forces are sometimes implemented in such an extraordinary way that you never even dreamed of them. In your opinion, it will turn out that Borguzin was created by idiots, they didn’t think through the reloading of the TPK on the march, suckers... Of course, it’s good to have your own opinion. But you really need to be in the know to make the right conclusions. Study primary sources. Fair wind...
  71. 0
    4 June 2016 09: 24
    Quote: TOR2
    It turns out that such installations, if created, can be used as reinforcement for an already deployed ground force?

    I'm afraid it won't work as a boost either. There is no tactical niche for it, no tactical flexibility in use.
    Yes, from the outside it seems to look impressive, an “air defense train”... But in reality?
    You can design whatever your heart desires, if only it were in TTZ. But the question is different.
    1. How effective is it?
    2. How expensive it is.

    Both questions can be answered in the negative. It is not effective because the complex is not universal. Try to transfer it for reinforcement, well, for example, to the south of the country, to the North Caucasus for reinforcement, well, let’s say, to the area of ​​the Budennovsky plastics plant. Or (see for yourself) to the Votkinsk plant area. There are plenty of places there for the “classic” S-400 complexes. For railways - alas.
    It will not be possible to deploy the complex, as is done in the classic S-400 (the relative position of the radar and launcher).
    More expensive, since you will have to be more sophisticated and make all the auxiliary devices in a situation where both the launcher and the TPM will be “tied” to the rails.

    Quote: TOR2
    The most difficult thing will be to create the S-400ZhD. With "TORomZhD" and "PantsiremZhD" everything is much simpler, besides, both complexes will receive very good ammunition and an extremely short reload time, otherwise they will lose their meaning as a reinforcement element.
    Then it turns out that such a train will have to include the RanzhirMK battery command post. Through it, the entire railway company will be able to integrate into a single network with underground complexes.
    The main reason for such strengthening at a critical moment is that this “meat grinder” should work non-stop.
    All this does not fit into the usual framework, so you can’t say for sure whether this is a crazy decision or not. We need to build prototypes and see them in practice. Remember how hard it was for a helicopter to make its way into the army.

    You can create anything, Yuri. It would just be written down in the technical specifications and the necessary money would be allocated. so it’s fashionable to create both “Tor-ZhD” and “Pantsir-ZhD”. Only one question arises: why. Somewhere in our subconscious, “the winds of the Civil War are blowing” with its armored trains. So the comrades are trying to put whatever their heart desires into these “new armored trains.” Both KR "Caliber" and S-400. But the Civil War and the modern one are two very different things. Then, when there were no ways to transport troops other than by rail, this was in demand. Fortresses on wheels, capable of defeating both an enemy regiment and a division, if you're lucky. It's a completely different time now. Even the modern armored train used in Chechnya no longer had stationary armored turrets with guns, but tanks and infantry fighting vehicles on platforms.

    The general automation of railways will also play a cruel joke. How many parameters automatically go “to the top” are probably known only to those who work there. “Getting into” the railway network and monitoring these parameters is another source of information for analysis. Further. In the event of some kind of emergency, the automobile complex will be able to bypass this zone (there is a traffic jam or an accident, or there is a problem with the bridge). The railway will stand until the traffic jam resolves... Well, etc.
  72. 0
    4 June 2016 10: 13
    Quote: LeonDG
    Not just anyone, but a military engineer who served in the Strategic Missile Forces for many years and during his service for several years was involved in the protection of objects in the position area of ​​the OS missile regiment. You Old26, if you read it carefully, you need to give up everything and do nothing. Either the roads are wrong, or there are a lot of locomotives, or the adversary is so aware of our infrastructure that there is no way to hide. And the railway workers are all corrupt, they stand on the tracks with bucks sticking out of their pockets and wait for Burguzin so they can quickly knock Obama.

    If you really carefully read what others, in particular me, write, you could notice one thing (of course, if there was a desire) that I always express my NEGATIVE judgment exclusively when offered SPOTLIGHTS, and I’m not writing about giving up everything and doing nothing. In such a situation, when they offer SPOTLIGHTS, such as missile launchers in trains, BZHRK on Sapsan, anti-aircraft systems on trains, by the way, your post also belongs to this category REALLY AGAINST. This is the first

    Second. Why is your idea too PROJECT? Yes, only because despite the fact that you, as you yourself write, are a military engineer, you actually offer PROJECT, you are going to place anti-aircraft missiles in vertical launchers. You need to understand, as a military engineer, the size of such launchers is nothing. Just think, the length of the rocket is 7-9 meters. If the bridge interferes with travel, will we demolish the bridge?? So what? And if it’s a short-range complex, then why is it needed? Maybe it would be easier to put a regular complex on the platform?

    The third. You most likely have no idea about the presence of automation equipment at Russian Railways and how many parameters are taken automatically. You just need to be told that the adversary is stupid, knows nothing about infrastructure, and gets all his information from corrupt railroad workers (by the way, about the corruption of railroad workers - this is entirely your thesis and there is no need to attribute it to me)

    Quote: LeonDG
    You're spouting some bullshit. Many issues and engineering solutions for use in the Russian Armed Forces are sometimes implemented in such an extraordinary way that you never even dreamed of them. In your opinion, it will turn out that Borguzin was created by idiots, they didn’t think through the reloading of the TPK on the march, suckers... Of course, it’s good to have your own opinion. But you really need to be in the know to make the right conclusions. Study primary sources. Fair wind...


    Of course, I’m talking bullshit, but with my 23 years of work at a design bureau in the military-industrial complex, how am I supposed to know this? Only advanced military engineers can know this; civilian GKP cannot do this. And of course I never dreamed of this.
    But when, I beg your pardon, a military engineer does not even propose the same idea as many others, but in general to accompany the BZHRK with “anti-aircraft missile” trains, then sorry, doubts arise about his qualifications as a military engineer. Because judging by this remark, the presence of working radar stations and guidance stations in such a “train-air defense missile system” is an excess and is not wasted.
  73. 0
    4 June 2016 10: 14
    Of course, it is possible to quickly create a position area by plugging up all train traffic in most regions of Russia. But the only advantage of such a train, according to those who want to have such a train, is speed. True, they don’t think that in some places it is impossible to organize such a PR at all due to the absence or underdevelopment of the railway network in such an area. True, for some reason they forget one tiny detail... And what prevents you from transferring a normal complex, the same S-300, S-400 or, in the future, S-500 BY RAIL, and not fence the garden with the invention of “train-air defense systems”

    And one more thing, dear! Don't attribute to me what I didn't say
    Quote: LeonDG
    In your opinion, it will turn out that Borguzin was created by idiots, they didn’t think through the reloading of the TPK on the march, suckers... Of course, it’s good to have your own opinion. But you really need to be in the know to make the right conclusions. Study primary sources. Fair wind...


    These are your words, not mine. And really study the primary sources, learn the MATERIALS. And really study the primary sources of where and how it happened RELOAD BZHRK launchers. In the field or at the PPD. And so you read too many posts and everything is confused in your head. But we are Yuri (TOR2) they talked about reloading the TPK in the context of his idea about the railway S-400, and not about the BZHRK. Good luck in your study of primary sources
  74. 0
    4 June 2016 13: 55
    Quote: LeonDG
    Not just anyone, but a military engineer who served in the Strategic Missile Forces for many years and during his service for several years was involved in the protection of objects in the position area of ​​the OS missile regiment. You Old26, if you read it carefully, you need to give up everything and do nothing.

    Colleagues, don't swear. We have moved somewhat away from the main topic of the article. To make it difficult to detect BZHRK, it was proposed to create clone trains of BZHRK. It is clear that creating a dummy train is simple, but I wanted it to be more useful.
    Quote: Old26
    “Tor-ZhD” and “Pantsir-ZhD” are fashionable to create. Only one question arises: why.

    The enemy usually carries out an attack on a vital center in several stages.
    The first stage is the emasculation of the ammunition ready for use. As a rule, the enemy does not hope for luck the first time.
    The second stage is the defeat of the object. All transport and charging machines are in operation. The radar detects new targets, but there is no one to shoot. This is the most terrible moment. The SAM train should be able to recharge in a maximum of 2 minutes. or it just doesn't make sense.
    It turns out that such a train performs 2 tasks. Makes it difficult to detect BZHRK because is its external copy and enhances air defense systems.
  75. 0
    4 June 2016 17: 33
    Quote: TOR2
    Colleagues, don't swear. We have moved somewhat away from the main topic of the article. To make it difficult to detect BZHRK, it was proposed to create clone trains of BZHRK. It is clear that creating a dummy train is simple, but I wanted it to be more useful.

    Yuri! Previously, before leaving for PPD, trains were kept for several days in an open area near the plant in Pavlograd so that the “partners” could check them using their satellite constellation for the presence of missiles. I don’t think that since then the Americans have become so dull as not to provide for some means of control. At least the display of launchers is provided for in the new agreement, as well as information about where such launchers will be based and their number. Therefore, the creation of clones of these trains is very, very unlikely. We will simply have to announce the number of such trains, which means any excess is a violation of our contractual obligations. We are clones of trains for them, and they are clones of rockets in empty mines for us... This is a movement to a dead end

    Quote: TOR2
    The first stage is the emasculation of the ammunition ready for use. As a rule, the enemy does not hope for luck the first time.
    The second stage is the defeat of the object. All transport and charging machines are in operation. The radar detects new targets, but there is no one to shoot. This is the most terrible moment. The SAM train should be able to recharge in a maximum of 2 minutes. or it just doesn't make sense.
    It turns out that such a train performs 2 tasks. Makes it difficult to detect BZHRK because is its external copy and enhances air defense systems.


    Nobody argues with the first stage. The question is somewhat different. Radar stations are required to work on the “train”. And not just work. If you look at which stations are on the same S-400, then first they must be deployed, the masts raised, and just like on the “automotive complexes” they must work, that is, emit.
    about recharging for 2 minutes. Look at how long it takes for the S-300 and S-400 launch systems to recharge. And there, by the way, the location of launching and launch-loading (or transport-loading) machines is not limited to location on the rails. Well, let’s assume that the railway station fired back and reloaded with 1-2 rounds of ammunition from the reserve car. So what is next. The supply of missiles in the carriage has run out. Unhooking it, driving it away from the launcher and fitting a new one does not take 2 minutes...
    In addition, the presence of such “auxiliary” SAM trains can be an additional unmasking factor. Which is easier to detect: one train or 2-3
    1. 0
      4 June 2016 19: 27
      Quote: Old26
      Look at how long it takes for the S-300 and S-400 launch systems to recharge. And there, by the way, the location of launching and launch-loading (or transport-loading) machines is not limited to location on the rails

      We discussed it once, though 300k.
      http://topwar.ru/29726-siriyskaya-saga-trehsotki.html
      The third drawback is a very low rate of reloading PU, at least one hour. Moreover, even this value is purely theoretical, for its implementation it is necessary to have a TZM for each launcher and a spare ammunition for the position of the division. As a rule, there is neither one nor the other; therefore, the ZRS is in a sense “disposable.”

      Considering the number of “Axes” in mattress covers, a technical solution to this problem needs to be sought.
  76. 0
    5 June 2016 09: 50
    Quote: TOR2
    Colleagues, don't swear. We have moved somewhat away from the main topic of the article. To make it difficult to detect BZHRK, it was proposed to create clone trains of BZHRK.

    Yes, we didn’t fight. So, "exchange of pleasantries." I said that he was offering nonsense, he said that I was talking bullshit.
    I expressed my opinion on the creation of such clone trains. Moreover, I believe that the presence of clone trains in some places will be a revealing fact. Detecting a BZHRK, as one of the comrades wrote, is a feasible task. But they won’t be able to detect it in real time. Moreover, even if the enemy manages (purely theoretically) to limit the area where this complex is located, he will still have time to shoot back. The main thing is that there is a combat field starting position in the zone of his movement.

    But I consider the deployment of the complex itself an ill-conceived decision. And judging by some indirect data, there were both supporters and opponents in the Defense Ministry system. The supporters won. Whether as a result of lobbying and behind-the-scenes games or something else - HZ. But even such a supporter of the complex as Solomonov, namely his rocket there, will still not be completely sure of this. As he himself stated, only after actual launches at the end of this year, and not after throw tests, will the issue of FULL SCALE deployment of work on the complex. Or they won’t if they are negative.

    Besides. It was a problem for the adversary when there were many such trains. The Union planned SEVEN divisions (deployed THREE). Each FOUR regiment (composition). Each composition, if necessary, was divided into THREE divisions, which could operate at a fairly considerable distance from each other (for which there were three locomotives in the train).

    Just imagine how many targets the enemy had to track.
    SEVEN divisions by FOUR shelf and TPAnd divisions. Total EIGHTY-FOUR OBJECTIVES only in the form of starter modules. Plus more TWENTY EIGHT targets in the form of control modules (regiment command post) from which the command for use was transmitted. Total HUNDRED AND TWELVE OBJECTIVES. True, they turned everything around THREE divisions. The number of targets has decreased to THIRTY-SIX starting modules and up to TWELVE control modules. Total FORTY EIGHT.

    Now they are going to make do with one locomotive, that is, divisional breeding apparently is no longer envisaged. Which theoretically makes it easier to defeat the squad. SIX launchers and gearboxes are all in one place, not in FOUR DIFFERENT, as before. And the total number of targets FIVE

    Besides. At present, all the divisions' PPDs that were equipped with BZHRKs have long since fallen into disrepair. We will have to create such PPD again. Plus build towns for the division's military personnel to live in. Expensive and takes a long time. Wouldn’t it be better to simply increase the number of regiments already in existing divisions? Instead of the two currently existing regiments, deploy, for example, four. Yes, there would be costs, but their volumes are incommensurate with those that would be needed to deploy a BZHRK division.
  77. 0
    5 June 2016 10: 41
    Quote: SMikhalych
    The essence of launching from a BZHRK is that the missile has a so-called mortar launch, i.e. it is first pushed out of the starting casing and only then the main engine is turned on. Therefore, it is very, very difficult to record such a start. This is the first.

    Sorry, but what you wrote was stupid. A mortar launch is out of the question here. There were and are no difficulties in recording the launch of the rocket. And it doesn’t matter what kind of launch the rocket uses: mortar or gas-dynamic. Early warning satellites record the launch of a rocket approximately 5-10 seconds after launch.

    Quote: SMikhalych
    The second is that the start is possible from anywhere in the vast expanses of Russia. You'll never have enough companions for such an event.

    Absolutely wrong opinion. Start is possible only from field starting positions, equipped in a geodetic plan, with precise coordinates. And this despite the presence of navigation sensors along the entire BZHRK movement route. The trains did not travel wherever they pleased. Exclusively on certain routes. There were indeed relatively many field positions - there were about 200 such positions for three EMNIP divisions.
    You don't need too many satellites, just a few.

    Quote: SMikhalych
    Third, this type of missile is very difficult to detect in the active phase of flight.

    And how does this type of rocket differ from the same “Topol”?

    Quote: professor
    Did the Americans try? Or does the author doubt the technological ability of the bourgeois to place the same Trident on railway platforms?

    The Americans did not try to place the Tridens on railway platforms because we made a fuss. The SALT-2 EMNIP treaty stipulated a ban on the deployment of naval missiles on land-based launchers. Technologically, the Americans could do it. In principle, the idea of ​​the BZHRK arose during the war and never “died.” It popped up periodically, but was implemented only in the 80s of the twentieth century. We had about 5-6 BZHRK projects (with R-12, with RT-2, with RT-21M, RT-22, RT-23 and RT-23UTTH). The Americans also had them - off the top of my head with the Minutemen and MX.

    Quote: professor
    In general, the legend says that the idea of ​​deploying ICBMs on railway platforms belongs precisely to the Americans who threw it to the KGB ...

    This, dear Professor, is truly a legend. And a legend arises most often under conditions of total secrecy. I can even add to this legend. They usually said that the Americans came up with this idea knowing that it could not be implemented, but ours took it and implemented it. But this is truly a legend. At the end of the 70s, in certain publications - in particular, in such as "ROCKET-SPACE TECHNOLOGY" (RKT) there were a lot of publications on basing schemes for the same MX. Among the mass of everything, the options “Trench”, “Track” and the railway version were considered
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  80. +2
    7 June 2016 14: 18
    It’s far from my idea to agitate someone and make “speeches”.
    Everything said below is my personal point of view:

    I am really ready to be patient and help my Country with money to (at least) restore the stolen defense potential!
    I want to be proud of my Country and its Army, I want my son to be able to do this too.
    If I'm lucky, I'll give it to the restored (in Sevastopol) Nakhimovskoe.
    I am convinced that there is no more worthy fate for a man than the defense of the Motherland!
    Few people understand how important it is - the opportunity to live in a Great Country and be proud of it!
    Ask why?
    The answer is simple: I am from Crimea.
  81. 0
    3 November 2016 11: 25
    Thanks for the article, read with pleasure.

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