Military Review

Another satellite crashed without reaching the specified orbit

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According to Interfax, citing a representative of the space industry, a launch of the Meridian communications satellite took place on Friday. The launch was carried out from the Plesetsk cosmodrome in the Arkhangelsk region. However, the satellite could not be put into the calculated orbit. According to preliminary data, this was due to a failure during the operation of the third stage of the Soyuz-2 launch vehicle, which was used to deliver the satellite into space. This suggests that he fell somewhere in Siberia. Currently, work is underway to calculate the coordinates of a possible location for the fall of the communications apparatus, this was reported by the agency’s source after the satellite crash.


Later, more accurate information about the accident appeared, the wreckage of the apparatus was found in different settlements of the Novosibirsk region, according to eyewitnesses, one of them got into a residential building in the village of Vagaytsevo, breaking through its roof.

Financial losses from the unsuccessful launching of Meridian into orbit can exceed two billion rubles if you consider the cost of the satellite itself, the Fregat and Soyuz block for acceleration.

The Ministry of Defense did not immediately, but rather promptly confirmed the fact of the accident at the launch of the satellite. This was announced by Alexey Zolotukhin, the official representative of the ministry in the rank of colonel in the Aerospace Defense Forces. He confirmed the information about the malfunction of the propulsion system, located in one of the stages, namely in the third, "Soyuz-2". According to him, this happened after the 421 second flight. He also reported on the fall of the apparatus "Meridian" on the ground, after the failure of its withdrawal to the calculated orbit.

Earlier, he also covered for ITAR-TASS the stages of the flight of the Soyuz-2.1b rocket carrying the Meridian communications spacecraft on board. According to him, the launch of the rocket was made in 16: 08 from the Plesetsk cosmodrome. Mentioned Zolotukhin and the fact that the launch took place in normal mode, no problems were found. In 16: 11, he said, the launch vehicle came under the control of ground support vehicles.

Lieutenant-General Oleg Ostapenko, Commander of the Aerospace Defense Forces, was appointed the head of the launch implementation team. At the spaceport, he arrived the day before launch. According to Zolotukhin, in 18-28, the management of the Meridian will be carried out using ground-based controls, at which time it will have to be in the radio-visible zone from the territory of the Russian Federation. However, problems with the third stage made changes to these plans.

According to a representative of the IWCO, today's launch of the Soyuz-2 is already the tenth launch for this modification of the rocket, made from the Plesetsk cosmodrome.

Zolotukhin also reminded about the fact that this was the final stage of the space program of the Aerospace Defense Forces, scheduled for the Plesetsk cosmodrome for 2011 year. In total for this year, seven space launches were successfully launched from a spaceport located in the north of Russia. The program also launched two intercontinental ballistic missiles.

In the open access there is some data on the Meridian series of satellites. In particular, it is known that these are dual-purpose spacecraft that can provide communications to sea vessels and sea ice reconnaissance aircraft operating in the areas of the Northern Sea Route with land stations located on the coast. They can also be used to expand an already existing communications network, using satellites deployed in the Far East and over the northern regions of Siberia. It is planned that space communications devices of the Meridian series will replace three communication systems - Parus, Molniya-1 and Molniya-3, after the group consisting of satellites of this type is deployed.

The first representative of this series was put into orbit using one of the modifications of the Soyuz-2 launch vehicle using the Fregat acceleration unit. The launch took place on December 24 2006. The second unit launched 22 on May 2009 of the year, however, there were failures in the work of the Frigate and the satellite was also unable to reach the calculated orbit. The third satellite successfully reached the estimated orbit of November 2 2010 of the year. 4 May 2011, the successful launch of the fourth.

The devices of the “Meridian” series are manufactured by the company “Information Satellite Systems”, located in the city of Zheleznogorsk. An upgraded version of the Soyuz-2 launch vehicle, which has received a new digital control system and a large payload, is supplied by the Samara-based TsSKB-Progress. The “Fregat” overclocking unit was developed at the Lavochkin Scientific and Production Association located in Khimki, Moscow Region.

Perhaps "Meridian" was not insured

Interfax was provided with information from representatives leading in the field of space insurance, companies, from which it follows that the crashed Meridian satellite was not insured. According to one of the top managers of a large Russian insurance company, there is a possibility that third party liability was also not insured. Only launchers were provided with insurance, but they remained unharmed.

Also in one of the companies they noticed that due to the increase in the number of emergency situations that have occurred with Russian satellites recently, the cost of insurance increases all the time and it becomes more difficult to provide it. According to them, Russian insurers have some difficulty trying to reinsure such risks in the international insurance market.

There is one more nuance to which one of the experts of the market for insurance of space risks paid attention. In any of the emergency situations, its cause is automatically entered in the list of exceptions, and can no longer be used to obtain insurance coverage when insuring any spacecraft.

However, RIA "News", With reference to its sources in the insurance market, released information that civil liability during the current launch of the Meridian vehicle was insured. This was done at NASKO Tatarstan insurance company located in Kazan. The company was founded in 1996 year, among its shareholders were AK Bars Bank and Tatfondbank. The company took 54’s place in Russia in terms of insurance premiums for the first nine months, which amounted to 1.389 is a billion rubles. Also, this source confirmed the information that, according to its data, the satellite was not insured.

It was not possible to obtain official confirmation or refutation of this information in NASCO.

It is possible that the launch of six satellites from Baikonur will be postponed.

Interfax, with reference to one of the representatives of the rocket and space industry, published information on the possible transfer of planned launches for Globalstar-2 devices. The launch of navigation satellites is planned from the Baikonur cosmodrome using the Soyuz-2.1А launch vehicle. The reason for the postponement was the accident at the launch of the Meridian spacecraft, for the investigation of the reasons for which a special commission was created. It is precisely this investigation that can shift the launch scheduled for December 28.

According to the Interfax source, the Soyuz-2.1A and Soyuz-2.1B missiles differ only in the design of the third stage. Therefore, launches of a similar rocket, most likely, will not take place until the investigation of the causes of the emergency situation is completed.

Russian space industry is experiencing a series of failures

During 2011, Russia launched the 33 launch of various spacecraft, which were conducted at all existing space centers, including the Kourou space center located in French Guiana. Five launches of this number failed.

A series of failures began in December 2010, when, when launched from Baikonur, the Proton-M launch vehicle equipped with the DM booster block “buried” three Glonass-M vehicles in the Pacific Ocean intended for navigation purposes. The cause of the accident was that the overclocking unit was filled with 1.5 tons of excess fuel. Damage amounted to 2.5 billion rubles.

In February of this year, another accident occurred when the Geo-IK-2 geodesic military apparatus was put into orbit. The launch was carried out using the Rokot launch vehicle, which worked normally. But because of the emergency situation that occurred during the work of the Briz-KM upper unit, the Geo-IK-2 satellite was launched into the wrong orbit. In June, unofficial information appeared about the total loss of control over the device.

After these events, the head of Roscosmos, Anatoly Perminov, who had held him for seven years, left his post. In April, his place was taken by Vladimir Popovkin.

18 August series continued. The Baikonur Cosmodrome launched the Express-AM4 digital broadcasting satellite using the Proton-M launch vehicle equipped with the Briz-M upper stage. During operation of the upper stage, when its main engine was turned on, the connection with the ground was lost. The reason for the withdrawal of the satellite to an unplanned orbit in Roscosmos was called an error when calculating the flight program.

24 August was launched launch vehicle "Soyuz-U". The rocket was to launch Progress M-12M, a cargo spacecraft, into orbit. This was prevented by the accident of the propulsion system responsible for the third stage of the rocket. The wreckage of a cargo ship and missiles fell in the Altai.

Finally, on November 9, the Phobos-Grunt vehicle was launched from Baikonur to deliver soil samples from Phobos, a satellite of Mars, to Earth. However, the apparatus failed engines designed for its withdrawal to a high reference orbit. According to unofficial information, an amount of five billion rubles was spent on the project.
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  1. mar.tira
    mar.tira 24 December 2011 08: 19 New
    +7
    Except as they cannot be called creatures. How much more money will be thrown away - cattle !!!
    1. Lech e-mine
      Lech e-mine 24 December 2011 09: 03 New
      10
      Question to experts. What happens to launches? The percentage of accidents is high.
      1. almost demobil
        almost demobil 24 December 2011 11: 27 New
        +5
        damn it already got grief-specialists! About objective and subjective reasons I’m tired of hearing already. It is necessary not to remove from posts, and after the trial to plant for criminal negligence (if not more) am
        1. sedoj
          sedoj 26 December 2011 00: 25 New
          +1
          I agree, but as long as strategic enterprises are in private hands, the mess will continue.
      2. Professor
        Professor 24 December 2011 11: 31 New
        -3
        Stop panicking - equipment failures happen. Those who are supposed to find a malfunction will eliminate it.
        1. jindol47
          jindol47 24 December 2011 14: 51 New
          +7
          "Those who are supposed to find a fault and fix it" This is not a car where I pulled over and repaired. Interestingly, the priest consecrated the product? can fix something in the priests
        2. SlavaS
          SlavaS 24 December 2011 20: 48 New
          -1
          It is clear that they will eliminate it, only after how long will they launch new similar or the same satellites. Analogs at the moment were thrown into orbit about 20 years ago.
        3. Uhalus
          Uhalus 25 December 2011 01: 42 New
          -1
          Failures happen. But when is it constantly ?! Here the malfunction in people must be sought.
          ... And then it turns out that people are not to blame for everything; that means you need to look for a malfunction in the system ... and those who organized it. In a word, everyone should get it! Something similar was long ago (about 70 years ago) in the Kurchevsky bureau.
      3. Odessa
        Odessa 24 December 2011 11: 53 New
        +2
        That Phobos in early January, planned to collapse. sad
      4. VALENOK
        VALENOK 24 December 2011 12: 36 New
        +4
        Probably as usual they say, SIMPLY THE CARBURETOR Sneezed.
        1. Odessa
          Odessa 24 December 2011 16: 41 New
          +2
          Thanks Valenok for the answer, they used to say that the carburetor flew, covered or just barked wink
        2. Justme
          Justme 24 December 2011 21: 46 New
          0
          No there on this Phobos is easier - according to available information there the collector left the lead in the engine (this is preliminary and unofficial)
      5. Vadivak
        Vadivak 24 December 2011 21: 11 New
        +1
        You would not be in a hurry to comment so authoritatively on the percentage of accidents Proton

        According to statistics, accident rate of Russian launch vehicles is 4% of the total number of starts, Americans - 6,5%, and the most unreliable specialists consider japanese and indian means of launching cargo into Earth orbit.
        1. Lech e-mine
          Lech e-mine 24 December 2011 21: 15 New
          -1
          Let us take into account this small period of time during which the accident occurred - a lot of something.
      6. Pavel V
        Pavel V 25 December 2011 00: 54 New
        +1
        Missile options: Proton, Proton-K, Proton-M
        The number of launches 371 (as of 26.11.2011/XNUMX/XNUMX)
        - successful 327
        First launch 16.07.1965/XNUMX/XNUMX
        Last launch 11.12.2011/XNUMX/XNUMX

        Missile options: Soyuz-U
        The number of starts 769
        - successful 748
        - unsuccessful 21
        First launch May 18, 1973
        The confirmed indicator of operational reliability of the Soyuz-U launch vehicle is 0,985.

        Missile options: Soyuz-FG
        The number of starts 37
        - successful 37
        - unsuccessful 0
        First launch May 20, 2001

        Missile options: Soyuz-2.1a, Soyuz-2.1b, Soyuz-STA, Soyuz-STB
        The number of launches 17 (9 - 1a, 8 - 1b)
        - successful 16
        - unsuccessful 1
        First launch 1a: November 8, 2004
        1b: December 27, 2006

        Missile Options: Lightning, Lightning-M
        In 1965, the launch vehicle was upgraded. The modification was named "Molniya-M" (8K78M). The first launch of a launch vehicle of the Molniya series was carried out on October 10, 1960, and from the Plesetsk cosmodrome on February 19, 1970. A total of 318 launches were carried out, over 220 from the Plesetsk cosmodrome. 307 launches ended with the introduction of payload into low-earth orbit. Reliability - 96,54%. There were also failures of upper stages, but these incidents were not included in the emergency statistics.
      7. Uhalus
        Uhalus 25 December 2011 01: 38 New
        +4
        Just ended the Soviet resource. A resource of professionals - engineers, workers, even just dispatchers. There is no already deep accurate knowledge; There are no normal - quality - even outdated parts. I see who comes to our universities, and I see what comes out of them. There are smart ones, but they don’t have enough time for sciences and knowledge - they need to survive, cut loot. It will only get worse.

        ... There is a strange pattern in all this ... Whatever the month is an accident with victims; whatever a week is an accident without casualties.
      8. NordUral
        NordUral 11 February 2018 13: 13 New
        0
        I am a simple techie, but I’ll answer: degradation, corruption and theft! And I’ll ask: when does the country realize that with these in the Kremlin we are finished?
        And yet, much worse: https://www.znak.com/2018-02-11/desyatkov_boycov_
        rossiyskih_chvk_vozmozhno_pogibli_v_boyu_s_amerik
        ancami_v_sirii
        No words, just curses of such power that it sends oil for the oil and profits of the oligarchs for the slaughter of our men! I understand that they are not fighters for the idea, but it is necessary to fight in all-Russia, and not only with machine guns. This is not with bearded men, but with American marines, armed to the teeth and covered from the air. Do not throw their hats. And if our were covered, as it should, the mattress mattresses would not dare to snoop. And if they were stuck, they would receive a worthy answer.
        And this reading was bitter and embarrassing. Sorry for the guys and curses to those who prepared everything like that!

        And the last one, the elections are ahead - it’s time to cleanse this evil from the power vertically and horizontally so that their spirit does not remain in the country!
        1. NordUral
          NordUral 11 February 2018 15: 25 New
          0
          I will add by Wagnerites: https://news.rambler.ru/incidents/39109329-istoch
          nik-ssha-nanesli-udar-po-rossiyskoy-chvk-vagnera /
          ? utm_source = head & utm_campaign = self_promo &
          utm_medium = news & utm_content = news & utm_term
          = clid_m

          Maybe really less. But still, you can’t leave it that way, only answer with your mind. And anyone needs to protect themselves from technology attacks.
          1. NordUral
            NordUral 11 February 2018 17: 23 New
            0
            And here's another, Julia Vityazeva. I would like to believe her.
            https://news-front.info/2018/02/11/sirijskij-koty
            ol-rodina-tebya-opyat-brosila-synok-yuliya-vityaz
            eva /? utm_source = warfiles.ru
    2. Denis
      Denis 24 December 2011 11: 48 New
      +2
      They promise major shifts in senior positions, in my opinion the sixth accident this year. An unacceptable situation in an industry where we have always been ahead of the rest.
      1. Tyumen
        Tyumen 24 December 2011 15: 35 New
        +2
        Yuri Khramchikhin resigned as chief of the GRU General Staff. They write that they will replace Popovkin.
    3. NordUral
      NordUral 15 September 2018 12: 40 New
      -1
      As long as this gang is in power. They are interested in the development of the country only in terms of personal enrichment and preservation of stolen by overwork. There is no thought about the country and people, except for one thing - how to make sure that he does not dangle under his feet and does not require anything.
  2. g1kk
    g1kk 24 December 2011 08: 38 New
    16
    It seems like sitting on the ass and doing nothing will end soon. Our government got used to the fact that it’s not necessary to invest money, everything flies anyway, but no, it seems that the backlog of the USSR is slowly dwindling. Navm or will have to invest money, like the USSR in due time in space, or we will be a banana republic, Selling ONLY OIL. And, there is another way that our liberals love so much, you need to increase the intensity of the exposure of Stalinism !!!! It was he who cursed broke all industry and all missiles !!!!
    1. NordUral
      NordUral 15 September 2018 12: 46 New
      -1
      "Perestroika-2" is gaining momentum in the country, secretly under a smokescreen of stuffing and provocations.

      And the last - the ability of these to use even the remnants of the backlog of the USSR in all sectors tends to absolute zero. It is time for us, the people, to understand this and draw a logical conclusion - with these we are prepared for the road to nowhere. And very fast. We think!
  3. tor11121
    tor11121 24 December 2011 08: 45 New
    12
    yes, only Stalin from a bastard country created a nuclear power. which the Democrats successfully buried.
    1. AleksUkr
      AleksUkr 24 December 2011 14: 11 New
      +4
      The final funeral for your information has not yet taken place. But the dermocrats continue to consistently accuse the USSR of all the troubles occurring in the country.
      1. Superduck
        Superduck 24 December 2011 18: 55 New
        +1
        And political authorities under power continue to blame the democrats for all the troubles. Probably Solzhenitsyn or Kasparov satellites collide from orbit.
        1. Uhalus
          Uhalus 25 December 2011 01: 46 New
          +1
          No, they do not push. But they - along with the other bastard - once did everything to make it that way.
          1. Superduck
            Superduck 25 December 2011 16: 33 New
            +1
            Writer and chess player, yeah!
        2. NordUral
          NordUral 11 February 2018 17: 26 New
          0
          Kasparov did not have time, but the liar Solzhenitsyn made a hand, and most importantly, put his tongue, lying foul.
        3. NordUral
          NordUral 15 September 2018 12: 49 New
          -1
          In vain do you scold! This scum Solzhenitsynin did a lot, and for this, taking his lie about Stalin and the USSR actively involved in that vile deed.
    2. Kostyan
      Kostyan 24 December 2011 17: 48 New
      -10
      the mustachioed destroyed millions ..... he is the Antichrist and Judah ...... the cannibal and the murderer .....
      1. core
        core 24 December 2011 23: 55 New
        -1
        he returned the patriarch of RUSSIA.
      2. Uhalus
        Uhalus 25 December 2011 01: 54 New
        +2
        He is still a humanist. It could have been worse. Much. Moreover, he entered real power towards the end of the 30s. The most terrible repressions against the people were in the 20s (1926 - 1930), it was then that a record number of people were imprisoned, moreover, and by social origin. And it was not Usatii who did it, who controlled the typists and the placement of personnel, but the party princes to whom no laws were written. They were cleaned in 1937-1939. And these repressions are most widely advertised - how, Usatii swung at the sacred - at the Party! Even Solzhenitsyn, through his teeth, both in articles and in the Archipelago ... admitted that they suddenly began to release the priests, suddenly began to return the rights (there was such a term "defeat in rights") to many who had served in the 20s.
        Then it was generally harsh, but Mustachioed was much better than the whole party crowd. Study the story more carefully, in the context of situations and without unnecessary emotions.
      3. NordUral
        NordUral 11 February 2018 17: 27 New
        0
        And you’re not tired of re-singing lies?
      4. NordUral
        NordUral 15 September 2018 12: 50 New
        -1
        Well, well, sickly. And how did you then come into the light of God?
  4. Strabo
    Strabo 24 December 2011 09: 07 New
    +7
    Some accidents, what? dullness, lack of professionalism or criminal negligence? Or maybe Sabotage? Why there are no specific org conclusions. Why is not a state commission established to identify the causes of accidents ?.
    1. NordUral
      NordUral 11 February 2018 13: 17 New
      0
      We do not have a state that creates state commissions if necessary. There are organized crime groups pretending to be the state.
  5. Igor
    Igor 24 December 2011 09: 08 New
    11
    A rocket flew, fell into a swamp, what a salary such a job.
    PS This is a diagnosis recourse
    1. xabaroff.ven
      xabaroff.ven 24 December 2011 18: 11 New
      +4
      The fragment of the satellite fell on the house on the street "Cosmonauts" -Novosibirsk region-is very symbolic.
  6. Strabo
    Strabo 24 December 2011 09: 10 New
    +3
    The feeling that it’s just faded and everything is covered by insurance. Complete collapse in the space industry, but what about ballet?
    1. Professor
      Professor 24 December 2011 11: 32 New
      +3
      This launch was not insured.
      1. Superduck
        Superduck 24 December 2011 18: 56 New
        +1
        And I read that some kind of Kazan insurance company will pay.
    2. snek
      snek 24 December 2011 12: 14 New
      +1
      There is still such a moment with insurance - with each failure, the price of insurance will increase, and since it is included in the total launch price, there is a risk of losing customers.
      1. xabaroff.ven
        xabaroff.ven 25 December 2011 10: 59 New
        0
        Until the personnel issue is resolved, the situation will only worsen. At a time when rocket science was created and developed, getting to work there was not easy. It was considered prestigious for the young and smart, and the speculator was a second-class person. Now the situation is exactly up to a turn. in the morning at the checkpoint who goes to work, tears welling up. They take care of their grandchildren, and they build rockets. And you say insurance.
        1. NordUral
          NordUral 11 February 2018 13: 18 New
          0
          Until the Systemic Question is resolved, everything will be so, according to a history inclined to the trash.
  7. Orthodox
    Orthodox 24 December 2011 09: 10 New
    +7
    the special services are working badly, it seems that the mole is wound up. You need to urgently catch and launch instead of the satellite into orbit, so that others would not be tempted.
    1. Persey
      Persey 24 December 2011 09: 26 New
      16
      so we have these moles half the government. In our country, absolutely no one is responsible for anything, but pays for all the people. Already a joke appeared that Russia ranks first in the world in the number of satellites in the Pacific Ocean, and laughter and sin, as they say
    2. Passing
      Passing 24 December 2011 14: 23 New
      +4
      Quote: Orthodox
      it looks like a mole wound up

      Yeah, it is even known who he is - an agent of deep penetration "Popovkin", at first he destroyed the military industry, later, for his merits, he was transferred to independent work, to destroy the space industry. Two more of his accomplices are also known - the head of residency in the Moscow Region "Serdyukov" and the stupid performer, the agent "Makarov".
      1. Lech e-mine
        Lech e-mine 24 December 2011 14: 32 New
        +2
        All to the wall. who was also near the wall, relatives, too, even those sympathizing with Magadan - wink Gentlemen, comrades, it is necessary to find out the specific reason for the failure of the launches - hasty conclusions to do an ungrateful thing.
  8. Igor
    Igor 24 December 2011 09: 39 New
    +7
    Chemical Engineering Design Bureau (KBHA), Voronezh. One of the two largest Russian manufacturers of engines for space rockets (the second is NPO Energomash). Naturally, according to the leadership of the KBHA, it has long and long overtaken the backward Europeans and Americans:

    “According to the Americans, our developments were 10 years ahead of them,” says Victor Gorokhov, chief designer of KBHA. - And we are probably ahead of Europe by 15 years.

    This technique is a battered meme of a patriotic audience, referring to unknown to anyone Japanese, Americans and other people from the world of fantasy. The Interpreter’s blog is in no way going to undermine the faith of the inhabitants of a provincial Russian town in the uniqueness of their technology, but in terms of salaries, the KBHA team is difficult to compare with foreign counterparts. A young engineer at the enterprise receives 8-9 thousand rubles, a professional worker - about 14-16 thousand rubles, an engineer with experience of 10 years - about 12-15 thousand rubles (plus or minus, of course). In general, this is not higher than the conditional average wage in Voronezh.

    http://nnm.ru/blogs/gaal_dev/uroven-...dustrii/page2/
    1. datur
      datur 24 December 2011 18: 05 New
      +1
      Igor, curious but what about the salaries and bonuses of top effective managers? fellow
  9. Victor
    Victor 24 December 2011 09: 43 New
    +5
    The issue of sabotage cannot be removed from the agenda. At the moment, Russia holds a steady leadership in space transportation. This is a big bother to someone. Again, NASA's budget cuts cannot but annoy the US military. Perhaps they need to show Congress and the US government that Russian missiles are unreliable, that American astronauts should not risk it.
    On the other hand, a banal Russian sloppiness and irresponsibility are possible. In any situation, the conclusions must be made serious and special services need to strengthen control. The culprits should be found, only really guilty, but not switchmen, and put in offspring for edification. That it was not proper to introduce the Power into fornication.
    1. snek
      snek 24 December 2011 10: 36 New
      +8
      Sorry, but this is paranoia. A single case of sabotage may be possible, but it is also very risky (the political consequences of disclosing it exceed all possible dividends from success), but systemic accidents are only unprofessionalism. If the Americans really sabotaged our launches, then we would not have deduced half of the GLONAS satellites. And to explain everything by sabotage is to delay the solution of real problems.
      1. Victor
        Victor 24 December 2011 10: 45 New
        +3
        If you carefully read my post, then you could not help but notice that I am considering various possibilities. But paranoia or not, only time will tell. We can only speculate now.
    2. Maroder
      Maroder 24 December 2011 20: 49 New
      +1
      Quote: Victor
      The issue of sabotage cannot be removed from the agenda

      Do American satellites start normally?
    3. NordUral
      NordUral 11 February 2018 13: 22 New
      +1
      Do not flatter yourself - leadership is elusive, sad as it may be. Especially for those who remember and were a contemporary of the flight of Yuri Gagarin.
  10. dred
    dred 24 December 2011 10: 12 New
    +2
    Another satellite here. You need to glonas to create they palms shitty palms.
    1. snek
      snek 24 December 2011 10: 37 New
      +3
      Missiles do not fall on the quality of their satellites.
    2. mar.tira
      mar.tira 24 December 2011 10: 41 New
      0
      Quote: dred
      crappy companions

      The satellite was just good, but also for dual purposes. But the rocket launcher slipped shit, and not the first one! 100% mole started up there, sold off to the reptile pendos or chinaz, it is in their interests to bury our space.
      1. Superduck
        Superduck 24 December 2011 18: 58 New
        +2
        What the mole is, there is a 5-level quality control system, so that the human factor is miserable.
        1. Tyumen
          Tyumen 24 December 2011 19: 06 New
          0
          No control system will stop the turner hangover. smile
          1. Superduck
            Superduck 25 December 2011 16: 38 New
            -1
            That's just the multi-level quality system that is fighting. Only now, if anyone is in the topic, then almost all acceptance commissions from the times of the USSR put their signatures only after they were given vodka for 3 days and allowed to have unlimited sexual relations with accountants and personnel officers. And there is at least a 100 level system. The fish rots from the head, the techniques for reducing marriage to the level of a miracle are a great many, only there is always a bolt with a left-hand thread at a higher level.
          2. NordUral
            NordUral 11 February 2018 13: 24 New
            0
            Military acceptance and even a simple OTC will stop everything. But these are pipe dreams with the current government.
    3. Artemka
      Artemka 24 December 2011 11: 28 New
      -1
      Well, they have not yet made such missiles so that there is a 100% chance of its successful flight.
      1. NordUral
        NordUral 11 February 2018 13: 24 New
        0
        What about Saturn 5? What do you think?
  11. Smilodon
    Smilodon 24 December 2011 10: 41 New
    +4
    It seems that we are in a time when nothing is known about flights, when our "specialists" by trial and error try to understand the method of launching into orbit, etc. But all this can be attributed to the time of Korlev! Now a lot of time has passed, there is tremendous experience in the space industry, there are specialists, there are technologies, so which one almost every second device falls.? I can understand one or two falls, anything can happen, but not this alignment. Moreover, all these satellites are being launched through our old, reliable "unions", and not through the latest missiles, in which there was a possible flaw. I don't know what to say anymore ...
  12. Igor
    Igor 24 December 2011 11: 22 New
    +1
    If the good old Unions brought to such a state, then what will happen when Roscosmos launches a new Angara.
  13. Andrew Scott
    Andrew Scott 24 December 2011 11: 24 New
    -2
    I think HAARP was not just created
  14. starded
    starded 24 December 2011 11: 50 New
    -1
    “Around betrayal, treason and cowardice”!
    1. Odessa
      Odessa 24 December 2011 19: 21 New
      0
      starded
      “Around betrayal, treason and cowardice”!
      - the words of the last emperor Nicholas II.
  15. vv1263os
    vv1263os 24 December 2011 11: 58 New
    +2
    Again and again the question of quality control comes up. I think that another "Top Manager" has appeared somewhere again and has bought "left" materials (that is, an alloy for a product, equal to 95-96% of the standard). "Cheap and cheerful" and "maybe it will." With proper control over the quality of production of products, this would be impossible. And under critical loads, these 4-5% showed themselves. That's the whole alignment. Naturally this is my opinion. And I know for sure that if KVI is not carried out for each batch of products with new supplies of materials - complete ....
  16. Drcoks
    Drcoks 24 December 2011 12: 09 New
    -2
    Decepticons play pranks =)))
  17. gans
    gans 24 December 2011 12: 27 New
    +7
    Yes, Popovkin, you don’t blame Russian tanks, but in general Perminov the old man was picking his nose, he had to be kicked out 10 years ago, that’s the only thing I don’t like about Putin, he will gather licking and thieves around him and try to make statesmen out of insignificance. Well, who will prove to me that he is from the KGB, well, maybe from some special one, I don’t see anything, I don’t hear anything, such as the KGB for suckers
    1. Tyumen
      Tyumen 24 December 2011 16: 32 New
      0
      Quote: gans
      will gather around itself licking and thieves


      Again, the king-father overlooked? fellow
      1. gans
        gans 24 December 2011 17: 03 New
        0
        so he became the king to watch for everything, but just like that I can steer
        1. Tyumen
          Tyumen 24 December 2011 19: 35 New
          -2
          Is it possible to watch ALL? And then what echelons authorities and ministries? You have the look of a peasant of the 19th century. smile
          1. gans
            gans 25 December 2011 13: 02 New
            0
            maybe a peasant, but these echelons are not appointed from an empty place and manage not an empty place, all the information about the activity of these zhelons flows into one office. If the president, let alone the prime minister, does not know what is being done in the state, the question arises: are they busy there and are they needed
  18. maksim
    maksim 24 December 2011 12: 43 New
    +5
    This year’s trend with our satellites is at hand for someone, they want to pay attention to the industry, after such misses and astronauts will refuse to fly, no one wants to feel Munchausen at the core !!!
  19. Torus
    Torus 24 December 2011 12: 49 New
    +4
    in general it’s amazing how for such salaries people have at least something else flying ...
    1. Justme
      Justme 24 December 2011 14: 54 New
      +1
      What and whose salaries are we talking about?
      The former director of our research institute 5 years ago had 300-350 thousand per month. How much now, I don’t know. But that director was stupid, and now, in general, the director in technology is zero and in money he is more than greedy (as in principle, now the whole top of our research institute is there, the entrance to the top is closed for specialists). . The salary in the shop of the traffic controller is 16-28 thousand rubles. For the province, this is generally not bad. The total budget of the research institute is 1.2 billion rubles per year. The number of employees is 1326 people.
      This can go on for a long time - but from all this stream of money I have a feeling that the research institutes have turned into a big cash cow.
  20. kosmos84
    kosmos84 24 December 2011 14: 11 New
    -1
    cheto does not fortify!
  21. AleksUkr
    AleksUkr 24 December 2011 14: 17 New
    +5
    As long as everything in the country will be run by "successful" managers, there will be no sense. Moreover, Helmsman Putin does not want to change them. He likes to spin among the complete goofs. Against the background of them he looks white and fluffy. And V. Popovkin is retired and the sooner the better.
    1. Rexei
      Rexei 24 December 2011 16: 50 New
      +1
      Soon missiles will be dropped on us, due to illiteracy ... And Helmsman Putin is calmly holding on to his place only because the people are becoming illiterate on his initiative, the process has already started in schools. And with an illiterate people in the country, it is easy to say: " I've raised your pension by 100 rubles. And it's okay that because of this I had to lower everyone's salary by 1000 rubles, but in old age you won't have to do anything. "
  22. sichevik
    sichevik 24 December 2011 15: 04 New
    +1
    But is it time for the competent authorities to address these issues? Why such a high accident rate? Or maybe some foreign intelligence agencies have been operating for a long time? Yes, and their employees would not hurt to check. Maybe the mole really sat down somewhere? And not one.
    1. snek
      snek 24 December 2011 15: 23 New
      +1
      How convenient it is to explain everything with "moles", agents, etc. The main thing is good for the authorities - it would be a deplorable result of many years of ineffective policy, but this is the result of vile foreign special services (an ideal scapegoat).
  23. snek
    snek 24 December 2011 15: 10 New
    0
    I looked at the statistics on Wikipedia (in such matters, its data seems more or less reliable) and the picture does not seem quite rosy: if in 2010 we had 31 starts and only one failure, then this year 29 (this one has not been counted there yet) and three failure (phobo soil there as failure is not calculated) 5 accidents out of 30 starts. In addition, we are starting to contrast badly not only with the USA 18 launches (1 failure) and Europe - 6 launches (all successful), but also with China 17 launches (1 failure). If Elsi continues to do so, then soon our southeastern neighbors will become cab driver number 1.
  24. Volkhov
    Volkhov 24 December 2011 16: 06 New
    -1
    Another ...- for educational purposes.
    Bureaucrats and spies are a subjective part of the situation, and there is also nature, which has changed in the spring of 2010 - the Earth began to absorb electrons, the ionosphere "settled" - this can be seen from Phobos-soil: initially his life was calculated according to the standard model, and he was assigned 2 weeks, but the world has changed, and it still flies.
    The third stage of the Union works in the ionosphere, it was worked out in a standard situation, but this time has passed and now "lightning strikes from the other side", the discharge passes through the engine, the electronics dies, the valves close - failure.
    Agents "do not notice" this at work, and bureaucrats - because of stupidity, it looks like they say to the driver - look, the wheel is unscrewed, but he "sends" and goes on ... and it must be an accident.
    And there were warnings - both on e-mail and on the expedition of Roscosmos. This episode costs taxpayers in Russia (26 million) something like lunch — they ate it, but if we continue to ignore nature, we will be eaten.
  25. NickitaDembelnulsa
    NickitaDembelnulsa 24 December 2011 16: 21 New
    +3
    I am ashamed of our space industry, and it’s bad that I can’t do anything.
  26. sashalenovo
    sashalenovo 24 December 2011 16: 31 New
    +3
    Do not believe the politicians, believe the facts. The chain of unsuccessful launches only reflects the level of collapse of the industry. And you can’t help with any resignations. It's only the beginning.
  27. Ivan Tarasov
    Ivan Tarasov 24 December 2011 17: 01 New
    +4
    One unsuccessful start is an accident.
    Two - pattern
    Three is a system.
    Before us is sabotage.
  28. Dzhanych
    Dzhanych 24 December 2011 17: 04 New
    +3
    Where was the BRAIN when the military leaders were dispersed (2009)? And in KB, and in factories !!! After all, every operation was controlled !!! No, Serdyukov found it expensive to feed the "idlers"! GET IT!
    1. Passing
      Passing 24 December 2011 18: 13 New
      +1
      Quote: Dzhanych
      Where was the BRAIN when the military representatives were dispersed (2009)? Both in design bureaus and in factories !!!

      IMHO, the pure tightening of nuts, in the form of supervisor, inspectors who control every step, every twisted nut, this is a dead end, this method can be effective in the short term, but this method does not work in the long term. There are enough historical examples on this subject.
      On the other hand, before breaking the old and ineffective, in the mind, it would be necessary to create an alternative quality assurance system, for example, a system of real and fair competition + a system of strict personal responsibility of state officials for the result.
  29. 755962
    755962 24 December 2011 17: 16 New
    +1
    on the Internet there was information that someone spoils or spoils someone's satellites. They only test the lasers, only something else. I'll find some info
  30. Justme
    Justme 24 December 2011 17: 59 New
    +1
    Some specific information.
    In our aerospace even in Soviet times, there was a division into the highest governing get-together and below a layer of gray intellectual horses, which dragged this whole "cart" (I did not find the Queen, but in the 80s it was so everywhere in the "boxes" where I was have worked). These "gray horses" have now thoroughly run up. In our research institute there are practically no such "draft horses" of 40-50 years old. And the fact that there is is a very spicy and long story.
    But it is better to start with the head.
    Our General is the son of the mayor of Baikonur, .. and essentially here - that’s it.
    Our "Head" in science is a thug from the local "nobility". He can "wrap up" any technical problem in such a way that it will be suitable only to rip apart the budget and quietly throw out the result.

    Do you need facts? - for example, the topic "Diagnostics" (2010-2012) is control of launching missile systems and preparation for launch ..

    And what should be expected after this ...
  31. maximus
    maximus 24 December 2011 18: 27 New
    +1
    What are the similarities between space and the Russian mess?
    They are both endless ... Our companions are the most patriotic in the world. They are sent into space, but they are not
    want to fly away from Earth!

    The launch of the prototype of the new intercontinental ended in failure.
    ballistic missiles from the Pisetsk cosmodrome.

    So that domestic satellites no longer fall, deputies gather
    adopt a number of important amendments to the law of gravity.
  32. Adolf Visarionovich
    Adolf Visarionovich 24 December 2011 18: 30 New
    -2
    And someone will receive the order from Israel and the United States and most likely 30 silver!
    I even know who ON.Da and you all know IT !!!
    1. Hleb
      Hleb 24 December 2011 19: 14 New
      0
      judging by your regular revelations and given the dynamics of receipt, HE is a kind of silver pile ... the size of Everest ...
      So who is he?
  33. patriot64
    patriot64 24 December 2011 18: 33 New
    +3
    The defeat began with the restructuring and collapse of the USSR. Everyone suddenly wanted to become managers (commodity experts), lawyers, accountants, and science has gone nowhere! Those who are now replacing the departed academicians, scientists, simply have not learned properly. Why? !!! After all, education can be bought !!! Only knowledge from this will not increase in my head! Now there are no such fans as Korolev, Chertok has passed away, many bright minds have left! We have lost a generation, but really three, those who could become potential students of great scientists. The projects are raw, the calculations are wrong, everything falls apart after such unfortunate designers !!! Money overshadowed people's eyes and replaced the mind! Bitter and insulting!
  34. shmack
    shmack 24 December 2011 19: 03 New
    +1
    This is a diversion
  35. PN
    PN 24 December 2011 19: 11 New
    +1
    So the dashing 90s began to affect. If before that, they still somehow kept on the backlogs and developments, but now it has dried up. The time has come to force what has been lost, above all human and intellectual potential. Well, without finance and tough demand for each ruble of the taxpayer can not do.
  36. morpex
    morpex 24 December 2011 19: 42 New
    +2
    And why, in fact, are we Surprised? All the best brains have long been working behind the cordon, where they are valued and cherished. And unfortunately, the leakage process continues. Both in Russia and in Ukraine. It's painful and painful. The old guard of the scientists has almost died out, the young have left and work for the enemy ..
  37. Barbarian
    Barbarian 24 December 2011 20: 46 New
    -3
    they drank the gasoline campaign, o5 was undershot sad
  38. NKVD
    NKVD 24 December 2011 20: 47 New
    0
    And surely they will be surprised if people go to lawyers and economists, as well as term papers and control papers written off from the Internet.
  39. r.anoshkin
    r.anoshkin 24 December 2011 20: 57 New
    -2
    We are pushing, we are a superpower. And we are obsessed, we have to solve internal problems, and not make supermen of ourselves.
  40. Yves762
    Yves762 24 December 2011 21: 10 New
    -3
    Quote: Kostyan
    the mustachioed destroyed millions ..... he is the Antichrist and Judah ...... the cannibal and the murderer .....
    - to see not everyone whom it would be worth ... fellow
    The present of Russia and its history are increasingly convincing in the opinion that no matter how cruel / cruel / bloody Ivan the Terrible, Peter 1, Stalin and others like them were, they were right, even if they themselves could not understand this: The Russian people should be stimulated with a stick so that the scent and shape do not lose....
  41. MaxArt
    MaxArt 24 December 2011 22: 54 New
    +2
    Guys, I see, some experts and professionals gathered here. Here is my advice:

    Go work in the space industry! You will be very surprised. There is no one to work, the old guard has long been retired, young people offer a very modest salary and zero prospects with a high load and responsibility. And when enough get enough of the sad picture - roll up your sleeves and begin to raise our Cosmos. Let's see what you can do. Critics divorced the sea, and what is happening inside - almost none of them know. Science is in decline, with regard to brains, we are now in monstrous potential pit... Production is dying out, in our design bureau, almost all equipment, including the lathe, is foreign, because we don't have our own. We need a serious political will for the development of our science, and the authorities have only Skolkovo on their lips. Wake up, comrades, if it goes on like this - in 10 years (no more) Russia will not have its own space at all, and you will simply have no one to scold or criticize.

    I don’t want to offend anyone, but the comments are poisonous. And you yourself try to lift our space. There are a lot of vacancies.
    1. Yves762
      Yves762 25 December 2011 00: 53 New
      -1
      Quote: MaxArt
      And you yourself try to lift our space. There are a lot of vacancies.
      - So what ? sticking like draft horse , with the current details of Russian realities, there is a chance to raise our industries ... ??? ... belay
    2. Superduck
      Superduck 25 December 2011 01: 16 New
      -1
      Well, judging by the comments, most agree only to go to SMERSH, to firing squads. And in the design bureau there is a lot to think, little money.
      1. Yves762
        Yves762 25 December 2011 01: 31 New
        -2
        I wanted to say that the result of labor (more precisely, the final efficiency of its application) will depend not on the worker (hands, so to speak), but on the manager / manager (head) of the beginning. And with him it’s just a problem in Russia.
        Without a head, the sense of the hands is not enough.
    3. Justme
      Justme 25 December 2011 11: 19 New
      +5
      Man, I’m working here.
      Yes - salaries for draft horses are not a phenomenon.
      Our young specialist has 7-26 thousand rubles, the old - 9-19.
      But let's slightly open our eyes.
      For each person in the laboratory, we should have contracts for 2 million rubles (minimum). But at our level - there is no money. So I wanted to make the measuring electronics of a high-temperature variable pressure sensor for rocket engines (August 2011). I bought everything for the layout with my money (1200 rubles). The result of comparative tests is Russia's best achievement in its field. For this, I spent 10% of my pay for that month.
      But on the other hand - there are a lot of people in shiny costumes walking around. This is our top go-to party. The level of payments there is sufficient to buy both cool new cars, and apartments, .. and luxury apartments for their offspring ... (the budget of the office is 1.2 mln r). There are few specialists at that level, but there are no adequate specialists there at all.
      (However, I acknowledge that such a scheme may not fully exist in other enterprises.)
      Now let's get back to our paycheck.
      I have always been struck by the phenomenon - here a good specialist can replace an entire laboratory or department and give products to the mountain much, much better in quality and manufacturability (I own all the necessary types of development on a computer, old and new theory .., knowledge including Western military standards, .. the initial experience for preparing replication projects in the same China ..). And it is logical to assume that the ban should be somewhere beyond the floor of a department or laboratory.
      Is this possible for a simple draft horse? This is not real.
      And another question - where to get to heaps of bosses, girls with curvy ass * mi and other public of all these "chicken coops"
      After all, now everything is so good for them "rolls" (almost).
      1. mar.tira
        mar.tira 25 December 2011 12: 28 New
        0
        Quote: JustMe
        heaps of bosses, girls with curvy ass * mi and other public of all these "chicken coops"

        I agree with you, we have exactly the same situation. No one wants to recruit hard workers and pay them. Everyone wants to manage and get the loot unmeasured for postscripts. In my opinion, this is a systemic edge of development.
      2. Yves762
        Yves762 25 December 2011 13: 23 New
        -1
        Quote: JustMe
        And another question - where to get to heaps of bosses, girls with curvy ass * mi and other public of all these "chicken coops"
        - In Siberia, there is still enough space for the application of not very skilled manual labor. Since Eta Codla does not know anything else, that is where they are dear. The question is how best to send them.

        Quote: JustMe
        And it is logical to assume that the ban should be somewhere beyond the floor of a department or laboratory.
        - if the old special (understand-motor) gets 9-19tys., then you, JustMe, like (if the description and application matches) should receive 25-35tys. + bonuses for individual successes. The numbers are just for understanding a particular principle: those who are superior to the middle peasant must receive moderately more so that you don’t sniff out (do not fool yourself: in one form or another, this is a property of all living). The motivator of activity should not be loot, an idea is needed!!
      3. Justme
        Justme 25 December 2011 13: 34 New
        0
        When I got to our aerospace at the age of 83, it was clear that this was a fat-burning and somewhat rotten industry (here you should take it calmly - for example, when I spoke with children from foreign countries - they often have the same problems).
        Then we lacked a certain "hilling" of our leading aerospace elite (if you want - in the style of Stalin, it is possible in a more democratic form, here only efficiency is important). And there it was necessary to make constant selection so that the top would not rot, so that the technocratic spirit, energy and adequacy would be preserved in it.

        And what we have now is not a shortage of draft horses, it is a stupor of the aerospace management system. Here, for example, several guidance materials and directions will come from above that contradict each other or the laws of mathematics, physics - and below we have to get up in some sort of mess. Decades have passed - and we forgot to adapt to changing situations.
        But most importantly - if you are the Chief Designer - you should be the brain engine of the entire company and not the central character of the jokes
  42. novik
    novik 24 December 2011 22: 57 New
    +1
    But the pancake has already survived by shelling with its own companions, but is it possible to change the launch trajectories so that they pass exactly over the Kremlin. Perhaps the percentage of successful launches will grow and become acceptable for understanding. smile But seriously, in the year of astronautics, such crap with launches is nothing more than a systemic crisis. Correctly noted above, the collapse of the 90s made itself felt. And the world changed, he went far ahead along the red Martian desert, leaving American traces on it wheels, and it remains for us to be content with imitations of flights and landings. And there are few sensible engineers, there is no connection between the old generation and young people, and sensible or other countries have left (to do what they love), or they have left for business (you need to feed your family). there are a lot of managers, there are so many that there are 2-3 bosses per worker. But they are NEEDER, they are engaged in very delicate, right things: the efficiency of production in 1970, they increase labor productivity from empty to empty and without even taking their hands out of their pockets they are trying to fulfill the plan of the state defense order. While the techies were engaged in the industry, everything was in order with success and achievements, and overgrown with the bureaucracy of plant administrations and ministries write oh, but they are not enough. fellow
  43. kostiknet
    kostiknet 25 December 2011 01: 03 New
    +1
    again krivoruky suction ditched the dear thing !!!!! A living example of the formation of the 90s (everyone wanted to be managers and almost no one wanted to be engineers and technologists angry ) Until we educate a new generation of competent techies - we will lose money on a cosmic scale !!!!! Specialists need to pay worthy, but for now - the state is pretending to pay / in factories - they are pretending to work !!! All this is sad.
  44. shmack
    shmack 25 December 2011 02: 37 New
    0
    For comparison, by the way, for example, in 1983, 99 launches were performed with 98 successful ... Here were such percentages before.
  45. mitrich
    mitrich 25 December 2011 06: 31 New
    -1
    In the Novosibirsk region, in the village of Vagaytsevo, there lived a peasant, a man like a peasant. All business is something that this peasant suffered from a congenital hangover ... One evening he hears: some noise in the sky. Minutes 5,10. That little peasant came out onto the porch, looked at the sky, well, and ... he puffed a little. Uncomfortably pummeled, with consequences. Something flies. Yes, straight into his hut. The roof was punched, the apparatus, needed in the household, was helping the peasant to be treated, broke. It turned out to be a space satellite. It is called Meridian. It did not enter the specified orbit ...
    The old men beat, the little man, since then, although he has not quit drinking, he has read everything about Gagarin ...
    So there it was.
  46. novik
    novik 25 December 2011 07: 28 New
    +1
    Aha: On the village garbage fell, silver metal. This is the Plesetsk cosmodrome, sending us a fiery pi ... c. And then an extra-class excavator flies at us, lifts its "terrible" bucket, and covers everyone at once. year 2012.
  47. Bob
    Bob 25 December 2011 10: 16 New
    -1
    We have lost a bunch of "bucks", we are losing credibility in the industry, I wonder - TO WHOM TO TELL THANKS ?! (Masad, CIA, Mi-5 or whatever) Under the USSR, these "well-wishers" were of course, but never on such a scale as now. The devils have taken great care of us. All for the scruff of the neck and for the long voyage to the homeland. Let them raise democracy in their country. The coffins have already been prepared just in case. Which is okay.
    It's a shame for the power ...
  48. abeluk
    abeluk 25 December 2011 12: 06 New
    +1
    as if a film about UFOs was shown in the Galaxy, there was a small story about how an U.S. ballistic missile was shot down by a UFO: a ball flies up to a rocket, fired 3 times a beam at the 2nd stage, an explosion. The shooting was carried out in the infrared range. Maybe they don’t let our guys like that ??? ))))
  49. Bob
    Bob 25 December 2011 13: 10 New
    -1
    I agree abeluk.
    That's right - the American space shuttle. I will even say which model - the X-37B, launched into orbit on March 4, 2011, is still "on alert" and "has not yet" been shot down.
    "Finding the X-37 in orbit gives us (the Americans) additional opportunities for experimentation," said Tom McIntyre, director of space programs. Details: http://www.rg.ru/2011/11/30/ispitania-site.html
    "Good" experiments. For such experiments, you can get.
    1. snek
      snek 25 December 2011 16: 00 New
      +2
      Masad, the CIA, Mi-5, and now UFOs and everything against Mother’s space program. What's next? Ghosts Creatures from parallel worlds?
      For several decades (including the last two) this did not interfere with successful launches (in 2010 there was only one failure of 30 launches). There is a systemic crisis, the causes of which are described in particular in the comments above by people related to this issue. We need new (or rather well-forgotten sary) emphasis in education (see all the basics of proclamation and social studies — more mathematics and physics), we need new leadership in the appropriate structures (and not just the circulation of officials in nature, but a rush of technocratic blood), well, we need to return to the public consciousness the idea that the cosmos is important and we are still among the first there (and used to be absolutely ahead) and if you exert a little effort, you can become leaders again.
  50. CCCP 2.0
    CCCP 2.0 25 December 2011 22: 55 New
    +1
    Comrade Stalin did the right thing ... it’s necessary to drive everyone into sharashki, and then let them try to collect poorly ... all the great designers left the closed design bureau ... the same Sergey Korolev