In the Russian Federation, the development of a plasma rocket engine will begin

The KB of chemical automatics and the Kurchatov Institute will begin preparing a project to create an electrodeless plasma rocket engine (BPRD), the press service reported Roscosmos.

It is noted that "numerous variants of already existing electric rocket engines (EE) have proven their positive qualities: high momentum (flow rate of the working substance) and low mass flow of the working fluid, which allows spacecraft to fly over long distances."

“However, the existing drawbacks of electric propulsion - low thrust - impose certain restrictions on the use of such propulsion systems - flights over long distances last a very long time. Today, electric propulsion is used as engines for adjusting the orbits and orientation of small spacecraft. Typically, the power of such engines does not exceed several tens of kilowatts provided by solar batteries in near-earth orbits, ”the release says.

“The currently considered version of the electrodeless plasma rocket engine is a new generation of electric propulsion. This is a high power engine, the working substance in which is in a state of plasma. It has high energy efficiency, the ability to use almost any substance as a working medium, is able to change the value of the specific impulse, and the maximum engine power is limited practically only by the power supply of the high-frequency generator. Also, an engine of this type can potentially have a long service life, since all restrictions associated with exposure to an energy-saturated working substance with structural elements are lifted, ”the press service said.

"The implementation of the ideas embodied in the proposed development became possible due to the progress in the study of plasma thermonuclear fusion processes, in the development of high-temperature superconductors technology and modern element base of high-frequency generators," the corporation noted.

“When creating such an engine, developers will have to solve the issues of optimizing plasma processes, developing a high-frequency generator, cryogenic magnetic systems, as well as power supply systems and control of a TU. Providing a solution to these problems will require the creation of an experimental and test bench base, ”the message says.

Comments

[kvv157]

Again in the future tense Do it first, then say

[bulvas]

To do is understandable, to get ready, but for this you need to do research

Like here:

“The implementation of the ideas embodied in the proposed development was made possible thanks to progress in the study of plasma processes of thermonuclear fusion, in the development of technology of high-temperature superconductors and modern element base of high-frequency generators”

We dealt with one problem, found new solutions

The very fact that we are dealing with increasingly interesting problems is already pleasing.

More specialists will find work in Russia, fewer will go abroad

[Alex20042004]

New scientific ideas, and further developments, cost a lot of money and attract large human resources.
It all starts with an idea, and then with a PROJECT.
And, if in a difficult economic situation money is allocated for the project (s), then this already says a lot.

[Nross]

The article does not indicate that money has been allocated and some kind of agreement has been concluded, not to mention contracts.
It is rather a reminder that the preliminary designs are being finalized and the rocket launchers nevertheless have Wishlist.
The fact that the development of ITER (tokamak) and the stellator are omnidirectional is a no brainer, and here it is alluded to unequivocally. It is sad that all of these tokamaks developed in the USSR with national money are now being built somewhere in the European pendants, and not in Korolev, the N-th Academy, or at worst in Skolkovo.

Now Russia is spending hundreds of millions of non-Russian money on scientific infrastructure in France, Switzerland and other NATO riffraff, the Chinese were presented with Tokamak, the Soyuz spaceship was also given to the Chinese, and they were smiling and waving ....

[Blondy]

I remember where, a month ago, Kiriyenko mentioned, in my opinion in the Duma, the construction of a megawatt nuclear reactor with a propulsion device in the year 25, the ship would be able to fly one and a half months before Mars. It turns out - did not lie.
Speaking of the Russian sanctions, I quote the Rambler News Service (https://rns.online/military/Roskosmos-prekratit-dostavku-amerikanskih-astronavt
ov-na-MKS-posle-2018-goda-2016-05-24 /)

MAY 24, 19:53
Roscosmos will stop delivering American astronauts to the ISS after 2018
Roscosmos has no plans to conclude new contracts with NASA and the European Space Agency for the delivery of astronauts to the ISS, Interfax reports, citing a statement from the state corporation.

Existing contracts are calculated until 2018.

In the summer of 2015, NASA extended the contract with Roscosmos, its cost was $ 424 million.

We could probably not have extended it in 2015 - but it’s all the same - a silk on the nose. There is also such a bummer with a 70-meter "pasta monster" by Elon Musk

[vkl.47]

Nothing is clear but sounds cool

[ohtandur]

Gridasov will come right now, he will explain. I just can’t guarantee that it will become clearer

[dauria]

Gridasov will come right now, he will explain. I just can’t guarantee that it will become clearer

and sundry, there is http://www.mai.ru/upload/iblock/1c5/rol-i-mesto-elektroraketnykh-dvigateley-v-ro
ssiyskoy-kosmicheskoy-program.pdf

The electronic journal "Transactions of Moscow Aviation Institute". Issue No. 60 www.mai.ru/science/trudy/
UDC 629.7.036.7.017.1
The role and place of electric rocket engines in the Russian
space program
SOUTH. Gusev, A.V. Pilnikov

Page from there for an example. I must say right away that nothing is common with rocket engines - thrust is measured in millinewtons. And without a nuclear reactor, as on a submarine, serious engines are out of the question. In short, figurines to you, not gardens on Mars.

[Tilkus75]

And here are the reactors!
https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%AF%D0%B4%D0%B5%D1%80%D0%BD%D1%8B%D0%B5_%D1%80%
D0%B5%D0%B0%D0%BA%D1%82%D0%BE%D1%80%D1%8B_%D0%BD%D0%B0_%D0%BA%D0%BE%D1%81%D0%BC%
D0%B8%D1%87%D0%B5%D1%81%D0%BA%D0%B8%D1%85_%D0%B0%D0%BF%D0%BF%D0%B0%D1%80%D0%B0%D
1%82%D0%B0%D1%85

[Tilkus75]

Here is another reactor!

[Alex_Rarog]

Explain: take any substance !!! Heated to a plasma state (the fourth state of aggregation of a substance) and using a magnetic field thrown out of the engine nozzle !!!
It turns out the same as in a jet engine only without kerosene and air!

[Maxom75]

and any substance is what? And this substance in a vacuum where will they take ?, and what will they heat up? It's unclear. From nothing, something without the application of energy cannot be obtained.

[ZAV69]

Yes, even the same water. The feature is that you can get a higher velocity of the jet stream and due to this, the consumption of active substance will decrease, that is, you need to drag less fuel, well, and further along the chain. The code will do

[ARS56]

Where does rocket chemical fuel come from? Out of the tank. And here it is. Only the working fluid (fuel) is consumed much more efficiently due to the many times higher flow rate, which determines the high momentum of the engine.

[v.yegorov]

But infa that a nuclear engine for flight is being created
to Mars. In principle, this is the desired engine. The main thing,
have a lot of energy and the ability to reverse this
energy for obtaining high-temperature plasma with its subsequent release. The working body is space debris, of which
enough in orbit. Something like that, approximately. At least
least, I understand this thing, maybe I'm wrong.

[abrakadabre]

As where? Where will you get regular rocket fuel in a vacuum? Or pure xenon for electric engines, as it is now?
The main feature of this engine in omnivorous. liquefied gases in space are also far from everywhere to get. And here, for example, flew up in the asteroid belt to a flying stone, scooped up rocks as needed and flew further.

[tegezen]

They flew to Mars, for example, they used a working fluid, collected Martian soil as a working fluid, and vice versa, and the energy source is of course an atomic installation.

[dvina71]

Quote: vkl.47

Nothing is clear but sounds cool

Why is it incomprehensible? This idea has been around for decades. In a conventional jet engine, combustion is maintained, which creates pressure and the rapid outflow of combustion products, which creates traction (in short). There is no air in space; large reserves of fuel and oxygen-free oxidation are needed.
The plasma engine has a plasma core in which almost everything can be burned. The combustion products expiring at high speed will create traction.
Difficulties.
1. plasma core (control)
2. fuel supply.
3. management of the expiration of combustion products.

[iConst]

Quote: vkl.47

Nothing is clear but sounds cool

As I understand it, this is practically the same as the ion engine, which has long been used in space.

[alex86]

Ionic - electrode, here it is said about electrodeless, so it’s somewhat different, apparently.

[Reserve officer]

The direction, as purely scientific, interesting. But I do not believe in the implementation of a plasma marching engine, because I am well acquainted with this area. He graduated from MVTU them. Bauman in this specialty, then I had to deal with these topics already in the sovereign service.
The article is generally incomprehensible, there are no data, only common words, only the author’s enthusiastic eyes of 7 cents in size. Not a word about energy, about the mass-dimensional characteristics, about any preliminary results. If we write about such works and problems, then seriously. And so something like a lecture on prospects for first-year students.

[CAH4OYC]

Again in the future tense: First do it - then say

What if they don’t do it ... and then what to talk about?)))

[Axon]

but what to do it, it was already done, once talked with developers in Podolsk, in the 90s, when at any research institute with a kick the doors opened for everyone

[gorefest7777]

If you look only
At present .... there will be no future .... there would be no Tsiolkovsky and Keldysh Kapitsa and Kurchatov. Fundamental science ALWAYS lives tomorrow. it is an axiom for theoretical science

[Buchenwald]

Think clearly, they would have stuck a couple of plants and made a couple of collective farms and savkhozes, and soon taxpayers will have a crack to pay for such toys. A plasma rocket engine, how proudly teaches! Maybe it would be more prudent to undertake for anything, for example, to upgrade an existing one? Well, or slow down with such ambitious projects?

[Appraiser]

There is no present without the future !!!

[BEECH 1972]

And I think I shook the article for a minus, and this is Kew dub, I drink the old patient.

[AID.S]

Give the domestic gravitsap! The main thing is to prevent Rosnan from developing and everything will work out.

[Basarev]

According to the description, the direct Dynamo repulsor turns out.

[nazar_0753]

Good thing. You see, we’ll live to see the spacecraft

[evil partisan]

Even did not get it ...

This is a high power engine in which the working substance is in a plasma state.

Are you going to put Tokomak into orbit, or what?
But seriously, what is the principle of action? Explain who is in the know. Thanks in advance!

[andranick]

https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/Электрический_ракетный_двигатель

[Vadim237]

Everything is different there.

[Vadim237]

And correspondingly

[iConst]

Quote: Angry Guerrilla

But seriously, what is the principle of action? Explain who is in the know. Thanks in advance!

The principle is the same - jet thrust. The only mover (yet) in space.

Ionized substance (usually gas) under the influence of a strong magnetic the electric field is accelerated and thrown out through the microscopic nozzle into the surrounding space.

Since the pulse force is the sum of the velocity of the working fluid multiplied by the mass (roughly), then at a low flow rate of the gas itself, thrust is sufficient either to correct the orbit or to prolong the acceleration of the apparatus.

The limiting factor is the required electrical power.

The flow rate of gases in a chemical engine (liquid propellant rocket engine or solid fuel) is significantly lower (~ 3km / s) than in an ionic one and efficiency is correspondingly higher per unit mass of the ejected working fluid.

[jaguarstas]

In general, there is nothing working yet, these are all fantasies such as combat lasers and railguns. I am glad that we are also developing. And not at the level of self-propelled garbage bins Azovets, but higher.

[andranick]

http://www.roscosmos.ru/22261/
"Numerous variants of the existing electric propulsion engines have proven their positive qualities: a high momentum (velocity of the expiration of the working substance) and low mass flow rate of the working fluid, which allows spacecraft to fly over long distances. However, the existing shortcomings of the propulsion engine - low thrust - impose certain restrictions on the use of such propulsion systems - flights over long distances last very long. Today, electric propulsion engines are used as engines to correct the orbits and orientation of small spacecraft. Typically, the power of such engines does not exceed several tens of kilowatts provided by solar batteries in near-earth orbits."

[godofwar6699]

it is not cut

[Dym71]

Quote: godofwar6699

it did not cut bully

Well done is a plus!

I will answer you with your own text of April 26, 2016.
quote: godofwar6699
- "why do you care about drinking or cutting?"
You are the United States taxpayer, what's the difference?

You were still Alex, remember Viktor?

[FID]

Well forgotten old ...
"... On October 1, 1966, a three-stage geophysical rocket 1Ya2TA launched the automatic ionospheric laboratory Yantar-400 to an altitude of 1 km to study the interaction of an argon-fueled electric rocket engine (ERE) jet stream with ionospheric plasma. Experimental plasma-ion The EJE was first switched on at an altitude of 160 km, and during the further flight 11 cycles of its operation were carried out.A jet stream of about 40 km / s was reached. The Yantar laboratory reached the target flight altitude of 400 km, the flight lasted 10 minutes .. . "

[NEXUS]

Good afternoon, Sergey Ivanovich!

Quote: SSI

Well forgotten old ...
"... On October 1, 1966, a three-stage geophysical rocket 1Ya2TA launched the automatic ionospheric laboratory Yantar-400 to an altitude of 1 km to study the interaction of an argon-fueled electric rocket engine (ERE) jet stream with ionospheric plasma. Experimental plasma-ion The EJE was first switched on at an altitude of 160 km, and during the further flight 11 cycles of its operation were carried out.A jet stream of about 40 km / s was reached. The Yantar laboratory reached the target flight altitude of 400 km, the flight lasted 10 minutes .. . "

So all these statements are now not just words. And apparently the creation of this engine is directly related to the Russian program of moon exploration.
Sincerely.

[FID]

Hello Andrey! The thrust is weak, the same Yantar laboratory, in subsequent flights achieved a plasma jet expiration, in my opinion, of 160 km / s, but the thrust was about ten grams, i.e. it will take a long time to accelerate!

[NEXUS]

Quote: SSI

Hello Andrey! The thrust is weak, the same Yantar laboratory, in subsequent flights achieved a plasma jet expiration, in my opinion, of 160 km / s, but the thrust was about ten grams, i.e. it will take a long time to accelerate!

Maybe they solved this problem? ... Wishlist.

[Vadim237]

But what about the plasma? They would immediately announce the creation of a thermonuclear rocket engine.

[Vadim237]

And if they create one in the future, then it will be a very powerful unit.

[Maxom75]

And who needs it? We squeeze money for aviation, which nuclear impulses, and even more so on antimatter. (((All the loot goes to liberal nonsense.

[Vadim237]

Neither will we do, so someone else will.

[BEECH 1972]

The current leadership is well aware of what it means for the future. Unlike the previous one (the current opposition), that lived only this day and the money was sting even to maintain the combat readiness of the army (still a bloodthirsty military man). Therefore, the current government does not spare money on promising projects, even in spite of economic crises, and the past leadership either merged, or rides along with free dill at rallies or marches.

[Konstantin Yu]

It sounds like music, It is seen as science fiction writers pushing progress ... I hope not by us
In the meantime, we will travel along the killed roads and live with rusty pipes ... This is not a banter, .. just life ..

[yuriy55]

The Chemical Engineering Bureau and the Kurchatov Institute will begin preparing a project to create an electrodeless plasma rocket engine (BPRD), the press service of Roscosmos said.

In the United States, they rub their hands: why do you want to change the RD180 to an electrodeless plasma rocket engine (BPRD180 ) ...

The right word, such developments are good ... when everything is done on one’s own land And it will turn out, as in the saying: they come up with engines, set up the ships and fly away to hell, until the roosters crowed and we will scratch turnips ...

[Rash]

In the United States, they rub their hands: why do you want to change the RD180 to an electrodeless plasma rocket engine (BPRD180

Ours would also be rubbed ...

[masiya]

The topic is rather muddy and obscure for many non-specialists, especially all in the future tense ... and we seem to be living now and it is necessary to cautiously sponsor some kind of vague developments by Kirienkov boys and Chubais guys.

[Hellbringer]

Fine. We are waiting for the results in the form of ready-made solutions.

[Mountain shooter]

Mattress completely screwed up with her "VASIMR" -th. Judging by the description, this is something similar. It would not be worth ours to step on the same rake!

[amirbek]

Quote: Mountain Shooter

Mattress completely screwed up with her "VASIMR"

they can come up with these currents ... they are not capable of more
and in general there is such a tendency "mattress" throws up an idea, your minds bring it to practical use, then they brazenly steal the technology and use it
and still make money on it

[Yves762]

Moving poorly in space, Citizens!
Everything is the old fashioned way: to make stronger exhaust in one direction, so as to fly faster to the other.
Only zero-transportation and "anti-gravity" are the right tools for conquering space ... homo sapiens.
And by the old methods, We only spoil the universe with tin blanks, such as Voyager 2.

[sq]

Quote: Yves762

null transportation

Is it like with the money of the population? Rrazz and in another place.

[twincam]

it would be better if they raised the pension.
a little bit at least ...

[Mama_Cholli]

Quote: twincam

it would be better if they raised the pension.
a little bit at least ...

They believe that it is not necessary, since the young will fly into space.
... old people will keep the slingshot ...

[Mama_Cholli]

Quote: twincam

it would be better if they raised the pension.
a little bit at least ...

They believe that it is not necessary, since the young will fly into space.
... old people will keep the slingshot ...

[chunga-changa]

It's a pity the nuclear orbital tug was canceled. But this topic with a plasma engine is also very interesting and if they do, it can easily replace the nuclear tug.

[Albert1988]

Quote: chunga-changa

It's a pity the nuclear orbital tug was canceled.

Not canceled, but classified, this time!

Quote: chunga-changa

But this topic with a plasma engine is also very interesting and if they do, it can easily replace the nuclear tug.

Replace? It does not occur to you that this engine is just being developed for this very space "vigorous" space tug. because only a nuclear reactor will give a sufficient amount of energy to operate such a propulsion?

[shinobi]

Is there a breakthrough in microwave generators? Otherwise, only fusion on ambipolar traps, but their efficiency is positive only with cord sizes 100m long by 3m diameter. Again, for a powerful microwave, you need a small reactor for power.

[Verdun]

As Kozma Prutkov said:

If you want to be happy, be it!

It is completely incomprehensible. why shout about the start of development at every intersection. Is there really no other way to get money for new projects? If so, then the results will be sad ...

[Sergey333]

This article was already last year, there the author painted everything in more detail. We are talking about weak shunting engines for satellites in orbit. The whole trick is that the supply of dry fuel lasts much longer, and its mass is less.

[slipped]

no it's about a marching engine

[sergo1914]

Quote: Sergey333

This article was already last year, there the author painted everything in more detail. We are talking about weak shunting engines for satellites in orbit. The whole trick is that the supply of dry fuel lasts much longer, and its mass is less.

In the forest is similar. Dry alcohol always remains, and wet alcohol ends.

But seriously. Used for a long time as orientation engines, but traction ...

[Makarov]

It is curious ... it is a pity that the concept of work will become available most likely only to my grandchildren (

[MolGro]

Megawatt class reactor successfully passes all stages of testing
The hull passed a strength test and was dropped from an airplane.
Fuel ready, drip cooler ready.
testing of fuel assemblies and reactor assemblies.
since secrecy there is very difficult to keep track of, but some steps slip through RosAtom reports.
The issue with the engines has not yet been decided what will be on the ship, there is only a performance characteristics of 250 sq. KW and the more powerful the better.
Development is ongoing in several areas.
1 Ion engine (several types)
2 plasma engine (several types)
In general, by the year 20 the engine should be ready and bench tests will begin, and maybe earlier.

[Wolka]

Yes, the era of reciprocating internal combustion engines, and classic jet engines, is apparently a thing of the past, in the present and in the future everything will work on electricity, plasma and a laser ...

[sinoptic]

Haha !!! Do not tell my hooves !!! Author, go run against the wall.

Plasma engines have been used for decades!
Serially produced by industry.

So this news is a button accordion, moreover a rotten rotten one. Which still pleased our young parents.

The very nuclear space ship that is planned to be built will use packages of plasma engines.

[msm]

Yes fuck you need it. You better make a diesel and gas turbine for the fleet! So I want to say obscenities ...

[Nross]

In the first half of the 20th century, the Soviets, the bourgeoisie and the Americans invested huge sums of money in the development of a then revolutionary new direction of technology - "atomic projects". The first violin in this matter was played by the military, and therefore they did not spare money for this.

I think that if at least 10% of those costs would be timely invested in thermonuclear technologies, cryogenic systems, advanced engine building and other multiplicative industries, then we would see the return yesterday.

But atomic rockets fly well and on chemical engines, coal and gas burn well in the boilers of thermal power plants, and the "advanced" industry produces new "iPhones" and environmentally friendly "Mercedes", which, according to the imperialists, is more important than the bright future of mankind ...

What can we personally do for the bright (communist) future of humanity? I think - to be more modest in possessing material goods for the sake of the future, at least - your children ....

[Hannibal Lecter]

I probably don’t understand something. Explain. There is a law of conservation of energy. Maybe this is an attempt to create an almost perpetual motion machine? The strength of the action is equal to the strength of the reaction. But even if you try, then you always need to try, someday it will turn out

[Raf01]

It is not a perpetual motion machine. Speaking very simplified, it looks like a steam engine at a new technological level.

[Mih]

“I said that with our“ ambitious ”plans for increasing labor productivity in the space industry.” This is the "corresponding member" Rogozin. (if you attach a pencil to a member, it will be a corresponding member). He writes not in Morse code, but transmits it in plain text - I want the dough. As I understand it, it asks for money, but there is no money, as Medvedev said and wished pensioners a happy old age.
And what actually happened after the Americans decided not to throw astronauts through a trampoline? And the following happened: the Americans created the first step, which can land, so what? Can it be used again? No, well, no way - no one needs to catch a piece of iron on a hamlet of butterflies. So what is all this shit about? And it's all about that about the dough, which is sawed and earns income, but how could it be without it - well, no matter how.
Nevertheless, there are already electric rocket engines that have proven their positive qualities, which allows spacecraft to fly over long distances. When creating such an engine, developers will have to solve the problems of optimizing plasma processes.
And how do you order all to understand this?

[Bramb]

Good article.
The fact. that this development is already a long time ago. )))

[Falcon5555]

and the maximum engine power is limited almost exclusively by the power supply of the high-frequency generator.

Diplomacy ... Public rile ... Here is an example of how you can colorfully paint a bright future, and at the same time not say anything to the point. What traction, flow rate and dead weight will this engine have?

[ver_]

Quote: Maxom75

and any substance is what? And this substance in a vacuum where will they take ?, and what will they heat up? It's unclear. From nothing, something without the application of energy cannot be obtained.

Quote: Maxom75

and any substance is what? And this substance in a vacuum where will they take ?, and what will they heat up? It's unclear. From nothing, something without the application of energy cannot be obtained.

... the photon dvigunok alone looks more realistic .. The luminary is shining - the solar wind is blowing, set the sail .. and variable tack .., as well as collect photons and .. use the laser as a "water cannon" ..

[Centurion1]

Hurray Voronezh!

[BEECH 1972]

Quote: Falcon5555

and the maximum engine power is limited almost exclusively by the power supply of the high-frequency generator.

Diplomacy ... Public rile ... Here is an example of how you can colorfully paint a bright future, and at the same time not say anything to the point. What traction, flow rate and dead weight will this engine have?

\\\ "Elementary, My dear Watson". At the end of 1970, a two-lens hydrogen accelerator was developed at the IAE. This machine had a power of 5 MW and an outflow speed of 1000 km / s. The current developments are showing clear progress. The thrust is about 300-500 kg with a specific impulse of about 5000-7000 Km / s, with a self-weight of a little more than one and a half hundred kg, with a basic power supply from a solar battery unit and does not require a special working fluid at all. But seriously, there is such a thing as secrecy, if the detailed performance characteristics of all promising developments are laid out on the network, then why then is it asked to keep entire states of informants or spies? Including those specializing in industrial espionage. ;-)

[tegezen]

I would like to advise the respected author to carefully chew the material at the level of high school physics .. Most of the local generals in the subject can’t do it with their feet. According to sabzh interesting and promising. A bundle of a plasma engine - a nuclear installation is the possibility of a manned flight, for example, to Mars, on chemical engines it is unrealistic.

[luxprofi]

Don't say gop until you jump over. Do something first, and then report your "revolutionary" achievements. Ferrets are mediocre. Hundreds of scientific research institutes have been destroyed, there are no entire industries, elementary radios and mechanical clocks are no longer produced, they have forgotten how to do it, but there too. With a cloth snout in a kalashny row.

[luxprofi]

Noise-attenuating rubber for submarine hull sheathing, Chinese \ no longer mine! \, Carbon fiber and fiber for the manufacture of prepregs and resp. carbon-plastic-China \ it’s already gone too \, sane internal combustion engines that gasoline, diesel, no lithium-ion batteries, China is already number one in the world in the region. photonics, \ respectively in lasers \ and so on ad infinitum. They will make gravitsapu ... In the future. In the next millennium. May be.

[eleronn]

I just work at the Fakel Design Bureau, where they design, develop, manufacture and test plasma EJEs. Our engines are bought by Japan, the USA, Israel, France, and there is no need to even talk about all sorts of Spain and Italy. Our products are the best, so there is no end of buyers. I could tell a lot, but I'm afraid to say too much.