Military Review

Feast on the bones

114
Almost eight centuries ago, on May 31 of the year 1223, there was a momentous battle on the river Kalka, in which the Russian princes were defeated ...


The events preceding the battle unfolded a year earlier. It was in 1222 year. Then the Mongol-Tatar army under the command of the military leaders of Genghis Khan Jebe and Subedei entered the Polovtsian steppes from the North Caucasus. Chronists write that the Russian princes received news of this very soon. Their response to this event was stormy and filled with righteous anger. At least, the words of Prince Mstislav of Kiev on the subject of this event are known: “While I am in Kiev, on this side of Yaik, and the Pontic Sea, and the Tatar saber river of the Danube do not wave”.

Meanwhile, the unfortunate Polovtsy, whom the Mongols swiftly and mercilessly drove deep into the territory, winning, thus, more and more lands for themselves, were forced to ask for help from the Russian princes, but not in the usual way in the form of the lowest request, but blackmail. The key phrase was: “Today they have taken away our land, and tomorrow your will be taken”.

Feast on the bones


The argument was weighty, and the princes, after consulting, decided that the Polovtsy needed help, all the more so that some of them were Polovtsi relatives on the female line. The presence of close kinship obliged the Kiev princes to take decisive action (it was still not worthwhile to leave their loved ones in distress!). There was another reason for the Kievans to go on the march: the risk was too great that the Polovtsy, facing the enemy's army, would go over to the side of the enemy, and then the forces of the invading soldiers would increase incredibly!

Upon reflection, the princes decided to hold an advice in Kiev. The squad of Prince Yury Vsevolodovich Vladimirsky on the Kiev collection did not ripen. Without waiting for Prince Vladimir, the council was headed by three princes: Mstislav Romanovich, Mstislav Mstislavich and Mstislav Svyatoslavich. Meanwhile, the Polovtsy, for whom a positive decision of the council was vital, send rich gifts to the princes in order to appease them. Moreover, Polovtsian Khan Basti, a very influential person, by the way, even accepted Orthodoxy. What you will not do for the common good ... So, the council decided: "It is better to meet the enemy in a foreign land than in your own." Began to gather squad. The result was a considerable army, which, alas, was the only, but significant drawback: the lack of a holistic command. Squads obeyed the orders of only their commanders.

Having received information about the gathering of detachments in the army, the Mongols, who, by the way, had a very good reconnaissance apparatus with, speaking in modern language, professional spy agents, immediately sent ambassadors to princes with a proposal to unite and “be friends” against the Polovtsy. The explanation was unpretentious: they say, from them, I mean Polovtsy, there was no Russian, and there will not be, and therefore it’s better to stick together. The envoys listened attentively, nodded their heads, as if in agreement, but the conviction that the enemy, from whom they knew what to expect, was better than a new, but unknown friend, outweighed all reasonable arguments. The order - “to kill all ambassadors!” - was executed immediately. This was an outrageous violation of the unwritten law, which endowed ambassadors with the status of inviolable: “They do not forge or knit ambassadors and do not chop their heads off!” Having deprived the ambassadors of life, Russia thereby presented itself as a country with outrageous diplomatic illiteracy, the act of the Kiev princes was regarded as real barbarism. As a result, on the part of the Mongols, the attitude to not only the princes, but also to the Russians as a whole, deteriorated sharply.

With the second Mongolian embassy who came to the negotiations, the Russian princes acted more prudently: they were left alive. Those came with the following message: “You listened to the Polovtsy and killed our ambassadors; now come at us, well, go; we did not touch you: God is above us all. ” Ambassadors listened and released in peace.

At that time, the Russian squads, marching from different sides of South Russia, united and, having crossed over to the left bank of the Dnieper, saw the forward enemy detachment. After a short but extremely tough battle, the enemy was forced to retreat. Then, for two weeks, the Russians went to the sunrise until they came to the bank of the river Kalki.

Where was the channel of this river - no one knows until now. Versions great variety. Scientists believe that this is most likely the Kalchik River, a right-hand tributary of the Kalmius River, about 88 kilometers in length. Most likely, the Kalchik river is the very Kalka. But this is just a hypothesis, an assumption. Careful excavation of archaeologists along the banks of the river was inconclusive. Complicated the search for the location of the battle lack of at least some coins that could shed light on this mystery. Therefore, the place where the hot battle took place is unknown to this day.

Going down to the river, the Allies destroyed another Mongol detachment and began to move to the opposite bank.

Reliable data on the number of soldiers in the Russian-Polovtsian army was not found. Information chroniclers vary. Some claimed that it ranged from 80 to 100 thousand people. The point of view of historian V.N. Tatishchev is this: the Russian army consisted of 103 000 man of infantry and 50 000 of the Polovtsian riders - well, an obvious search, characteristic of the historiography of the time. Some modern historians claim that there were about 40 – 45 thousands of Russian soldiers, but this is something very much.

The number of soldiers in the Mongolian army at the very beginning consisted of the order of 30 000 people, but then tumen - a detachment number in 10 000 people headed by Tokhuchar Noyon lost a fair amount of their soldiers in the Iranian battle. At the time of the first appearance of the Mongolian troops in the Caucasus (in 1221), its number was about 20 000 people. In 1221, the advance units of the Mongol troops seized several Central Asian cities. Among them were Merv and Urgench. Jelal-ad-Din, the successor of the sultan of Khorezm, was defeated in the battle of the Indus River, after him Genghis Khan sent a chase of two tumens. Subedey and Jebe determined the direction to Eastern Europe bypassing Georgia, and again with the same number, at least two tumens.

The first to wade through the Kalku Prince Galician Mstislav Udatny. The prince received his eloquent nickname for ingenuity, luck, originality of thinking and victory in battles. He was here first. Having crossed over to the opposite shore, I personally decided to explore the situation. Assessing the balance of power of the enemy, the prince ordered the army to prepare for battle. The beginning of the battle was scheduled for early morning 31 May.

The Galician prince sent the Polovtsian cavalry forward, followed by the squad of Mstislav Udatny, turned right and stood along the bank of the river. The squad of Mstislav of Chernigov was located at the crossing on the banks of the Kalki, and the squad of Prince Daniil Romanovich was given the task of moving forward as a strike force. Mstislav Kievsky occupied the position of the crossing near the shore. Kiev soldiers began to build fortifications from wagons. They put them on the edge, tied them together with chains, and put stakes at the joints.

Then at the end of May (count summer!) There was an unbearable heat ... She also played a fatal role in the battle. The battle began quite well for the Russians. Daniel Romanovich, the first to join the battle, began to push the Mongolian avant-garde, watering them with a cloud of arrows. Those began to retreat, the Russians decided to catch up with them, and ... the formation was lost. And then something happened that, most likely, the Russian squads were afraid of. The Mongols hiding for the time being in reserve, unexpectedly for their pursuers, went on the attack and defeated numerous Polovtsian and Russian troops. In the light of the events that had begun, the question involuntarily asked: how did it happen that the Russians and the Polovtsi watched the lurking Mongolian troops in the open steppe? Perhaps the terrain where the battle took place was riddled with hills and ravines, which the enemy used as a natural defense? The hill by the river, by the way, was the place to be ... Among other things, it should be remembered about the specifics of the horse fight. The cavalry, the more difficult, of course, requires a lot of space, as well as a sufficient amount of time to start fighting, because it can’t go on the attack "from a swoop"!

In the meantime, the Mongolian commanders, who were closely watching the battlefield, noticed that the Russian horsemen, having chosen the river bank, would have to climb to higher ground, and, consequently, the offensive would slow down. Having safely hidden their cavalry on the opposite side of a hill, the Mongols, in fact, organized a real ambush. And when the Russian cavalry scattered across the steppe and began to chase the retreating Mongols, anticipating a quick victory, it was then that the turn of soldiers came from an ambush. It is not excluded that the Mongol cavalry had already received an order for an offensive. When the excited Mongolian cavalry suddenly grew on a hilltop in front of the Russians and Polovtsi, they quickly began to turn their horses back, realizing that such darkness could not be kept on the hill descent!

How it was in reality, nobody knows. It's no joke, the 793 of the year has passed since that time, a considerable time. The Ipatiev Chronicle, as one of the few sources that have survived to our day, tells in detail only what happened at the height of the battle, and relates the flight of Russian troops with the powerful onslaught of reinforcements from the Mongolian forces. The Novgorod First Chronicle calls the flight of the Polovtsi as the cause of defeat.



The Polovtsy, stunned by such a rapid onset, flinch and rushed to the crossing, bringing chaos and confusion among the ranks of the troops of Mstislav Chernigov, who were already ready to act. Mstislav Udatny and Daniil Romanovich were the first to reach the Dnieper, to plunge into boats, and empty rooks, pushing from the coast, were sent downstream to avoid a chase.

The camp of Prince Mstislav of Kiev, meanwhile, was attempting to besiege the second half of the Mongolian troops. Mstislav and his squad bravely fought for three days. They surrendered only after on the fourth day the delegation sent to the negotiations led by the voivod-wanderer Ploskyny came to the negotiations. The flatfish kissed the cross and promised that if the Russian squad folded weaponthen they can safely go home and no one will touch them. “And whoever wants to stay, and you are good warriors, we will take him into the detachment ...”. Vague premonition prompted the Russian soldiers that you can not believe the sweet speeches. But ... The heat is incredible, there is no water. Mstislav of Kiev agrees. He and the other princes with the weapon on their war horses down the path. At the foot of the hill are Mongolian horsemen. A mountain of surrendered weapons is growing ... When every last arrow was thrown into a heap, and the warriors became defenseless like babies, they were attacked by unarmed people with a whistle and a whooping. Few survived then. The princes were disarmed, tied up and taken prisoner.

The Mongols decided to avenge their dead ambassadors. They knew how to do this with sophistication and knowledge. Following the canons of the Mongolian "knightly" military code, they decide to take revenge by dishonoring the soldiers. And what could be more disgraceful than the ignominious death of a warrior? Not on the battlefield, not with a sword in hand, protecting yourself and bleeding from battle wounds ...

The bound princes were crushed with shields, and then they were danced and feasted on. The prisoners were crushed. The groans of the unfortunate were heard the next morning. By the way, historians say that the Mongols swore an oath that "not a single drop of blood of princes will be spilled," so theoretically they kept their word, following the letter of Yasy's law. But the same law demanded a merciless death for those who kill ambassadors ... This is Mongolian justice ...

Supposedly only a tenth of the entire Russian army survived in this carnage. Heinrich of Latvia in the Chronicle of Livonia, written around 1225, cites the Russian losses in that battle in numerical terms, and even very roughly, here is what he writes: "And the great king Mstislav from Kiev fell with forty thousand warriors who were with him. Another king, Mstislav Galitsky, fled. Of the remaining kings about fifty fell in this battle. ”

Losses from the enemy are unknown. Although it is not difficult to guess that they were also quite large. This can be judged by the fact that Subedei and Jebe did not continue their military operations. Having learned about the reinforcements approach from the Russians, they preferred to refrain from marching on the capital city of Kiev and retreated to the Volga. There, in Samara Luka, they accepted the battle with the Volga Bulgars, lost it, and were forced to return back to Central Asia. The next trip to Russia was undertaken by 13 years later ...
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  1. Aleksandr72
    Aleksandr72 31 May 2016 06: 38
    +20
    Thanks for the article, to the author +.
    The Kiev princes and their allies, who suffered a martyrdom, paid for their pride and arrogance, for underestimating the enemy, which in fact did not know anything. It was not good to do this with the ambassadors:
    The ambassadors were listened attentively, nodded, as if agreeing, but the conviction that the enemy from whom they knew what to expect was better than a new but unknown friend outweighed all reasonable arguments. Order - “kill all ambassadors!” - was done immediately. This was an outrageous violation of the unwritten law that endowed ambassadors with the status of inviolable: “Ambassadors are not forged and do not knit and their heads cannot be chopped!” Depriving the ambassadors of life, Russia thereby presented itself as a country with outrageous diplomatic illiteracy, the act of the Kiev princes was regarded as real barbarism. As a result, the attitude of the Mongols sharply worsened not only to the princes, but also to the Russians in general.

    One remark to the author: in the described times there was neither a country of such Russia, nor Russian nationality. The Russian ethnic group developed much later in the course of the centuries-old struggle with foreign invaders and in the internecine strife.
    I have the honor.
    1. ver_
      ver_ 31 May 2016 09: 43
      .
      Tatar = Khazarin = Cossack - a later name - this is not a nation or nationality - this is an equestrian warrior, that is, cavalry ..
      Genghis Khan = Caesar Khan = Gaius Julius Caesar ==== These are all casts from George Yuri Dolgoruky .. Who was not born at that time .. Yuri Vsevolodovich = Yuri Dolgoruky ..
      Ruthenia (country of military people, Scythia, Country of Huns, Tartaria, Country of Gaidariks (cities), MOGOLIA (great) ..- so other nations were called at different times ..
      1. Mobik
        Mobik 31 May 2016 12: 32
        +20
        I was always amazed at the courage of some people who, without hiding and publicly signing their idiocy and ignorance.
        1. donskoy kazak
          donskoy kazak 3 June 2016 12: 08
          +3
          Everything is relative......
          It depends on who formed whom. Do not allow the presence of an idiot in the educational system? And how many idiots he forms.
        2. andrew42
          andrew42 3 June 2016 12: 39
          0
          Yes, you, my dear, I’m looking, just got out of the Time Machine ?! Do not rent out?
          1. donskoy kazak
            donskoy kazak 3 June 2016 12: 51
            0
            Not for sale.
      2. VeryBravePiggy
        VeryBravePiggy 31 May 2016 21: 14
        0
        Another seasoned chronologist, a ripper of covers and accomplice of Academik Fomenka ... like "I ate haloperidol, but I am drawn to scientists more and more ...". What would Sergei Lavrov say? It is time to punish (at least administratively) for the distortion of history and the communication of false, delusional and openly stubborn fabrications about the history of mankind in general and the history of Russia in particular. It's like with sorcerers: he said that a sorcerer - prove it! If you can grow a severed head - well done, a real sorcerer, burn you for witchcraft! If you can’t grow your severed head off, then you’re a charlatan, and the road is there. Something like this...
        1. donskoy kazak
          donskoy kazak 3 June 2016 12: 40
          +1
          Someone once very clever divided history into domestic and foreign. The history of the Middle Ages and New history, Modern history. These actions deprived the students of a complete analysis of the historical events taking place on the continent. Everyone took everything on trust from the historical "Zampolits". And now, painstaking people have access to information from all over the world, information that the patriarchs never dreamed of from the history of the last century. And there was a desire to check generally accepted dogmas. Politics in all its glory The conqueror always portrayed events in a light that favored him. And it's very easy to prove today if there are texts and maps from all over the world.

          For example, the events of 1380.
          We take the facts.
          Byzantine chronology for 15 years was different from Alexandria.
          1380g-15 = 1365g.
          Who is Khan Mamai? By definition of Russian chronicles A (O) Garyanin, Ismayltyanin.
          Old Testament.
          Abraham had a wife, SARA (queen). Sarah had a servant Ogar. U Ogar gave birth to Ismail the illegitimate son from Abraham, and all his offspring had no right to occupy the throne.
          But this is secondary. It is primary that he is Europeid and Polovtsian from the country of Khans (Canaan-Canaanites).
          Polovtsian is a modern Pole. The connection of Kievan Rus with the Polovtsians (Poles) is traced at all times. Now it’s clear why Mamai was waiting for Olgerd of Lithuania and Oleg Ryazansky.
          The movement of troops was to the south. On Kulikovo field, which is on the Don.
          Then Tokhtamysh emerges from the South, defeats the Polish-Lithuanian army and receives the nickname Don. Further Tokhtamysh = Donskoy burns Moscow, in which there were ... Lithuanians and returns to the Don.
          But Tokhtamysh is Chingizid (Rurikovich) Saryn, that is, from Sarah, who has all the rights to the throne.
      3. Alexey-74
        Alexey-74 1 June 2016 12: 25
        +3
        Yes, enough for you to take this garbage on faith ... all in a heap and the Romans and Scythians and Rus and Tatars and Huns .... Yes, I agree there are many ambiguities, but not to the same extent
    2. venaya
      venaya 31 May 2016 10: 13
      +13
      [quote = Aleksandr72] One remark to the author: in the described time there was neither a country of such Russia, nor Russian nationality. [/ quot]
      Indeed, with the terminology used in the texts, many authors simply have trouble, which greatly complicates the understanding of the text read and finally confuses the reader. Terms such as "Russian" and "Russia" appear only after the capture of Kazan by the Moscow Tsar John IV. Then the term "Russian" was not a "noun", but was an "adjective", that is, "Russian" is the one who had a relationship with Russia. Russians at that time were called residents Ukraine Of Moscow Russia, that is, residents of the Bulgars of Kazan bordering with Moscow Russia. The meaning of this word has changed in the future, the term Russia appeared and the Russian stoi call all the inhabitants of already expanded Moscow Russia, then the terms were more often used rusichi or Russ... As for such terms as "ethnos" and "nationality", these terms are already of Latin origin and appeared in everyday life much later, after the XNUMXth century, by the way, before that they had never been used in relation to any nation. The Latin root "nat" corresponds to the Russian root "genus", so it is better and more literate to use the root Russian term - people!
      1. Alexey-74
        Alexey-74 1 June 2016 12: 28
        +1
        That's right, then there was no other nationality at all - there were no national states such as now
  2. V.ic
    V.ic 31 May 2016 06: 44
    +12
    Depriving the ambassadors of life Russia thereby presented itself as a country with outrageous diplomatic illiteracy, the act of the Kiev princes was regarded as real barbarism. Author Svetlana Denisova

    But Russia at that time did not exist yet! There was a "Russian land", but Russia did not exist yet! The stage of the Moscow principality has not yet been passed. It would be better for the author to first read the book by LN Gumilyov "From Russia to Russia", which he wrote as a history textbook for schoolchildren, wrote it brightly, figuratively and very interesting!
    1. Riv
      Riv 31 May 2016 09: 39
      +6
      Indeed, what does Russia have to do with it? Terry feudalism stood in the yard. There were Kiev, Smolensk, Novgorod and so on, but the nation, as such, did not exist. And now the nuance: the ambassadors were killed in Kiev. The Tatars should have executed one Kiev prince. The remaining princes are not defendants for him. However, they killed all those captured, and until then the Tatars showed themselves to be quite practical people. And since embassies were sent, and not one, then they were initially set to search for diplomatic solutions. The princes and their warriors could well be released for ransom. Someone is completely free, at the same time stocking up allies for the future. But they did not bother. Why?

      Maybe there were so many prisoners that the Tatars simply did not hope to keep them? Moreover, their Tumen suffered losses before the Battle of Kalka.
      1. andrew42
        andrew42 3 June 2016 12: 42
        0
        Yes, I say, a muddy story with all this Calca. Who is really hiding behind the screen of the "Mongols" is absolutely unknown. But certainly not the natives of the banks of Kerulen and Onon.
        1. donskoy kazak
          donskoy kazak 3 June 2016 13: 11
          0
          The story is muddy if not filtered. I’ll try to explain by asking a few questions.
          Scythians = Skitam (letter FITA) ?. Sketes = Wanderers? The wanderers who roamed for 40 years are Jews?
          Why does the coat of arms of the tribe of Ruben river coincide with the coat of arms of the Terek Cossacks?
          Why does the coat of arms of the tribe of Simeon (fortress) coincide with the coat of arms of the Kuban Cossacks? Why is the Naftali tribe (deer) among the tribes and has the same coat of arms as the Don Cossacks, who are the eldest among all Cossack troops. Why did the tribe of the veil of slaughter who received the allotment by the sea (the boat) have the same coat of arms as the Zaporozhye Cossacks. Why does the tribe of Ephraim (royal) have the same coat of arms (unicorn) as the royal dynasties protected by the Cherkasy Cossacks. Coat of arms at the historical museum of Moscow and coat of arms on the flags of Yermak.
          Even in ancient times, Cossacks were called Scythians.

          But among these Scythians were the Royal Scythians (CZERkassky = Cherkasy), or the Scythian Mungals (Mongols) and the Amazons their courageous wives.
          So the Scythian mungals came out of Egypt, quarreling with the pharaohs Voxa.
          On all Horde coins minted in Azak, the star of David is depicted.
          Who are the Mongols?
  3. V.ic
    V.ic 31 May 2016 06: 50
    -5




  4. V.ic
    V.ic 31 May 2016 06: 59
    +13
    Depriving the ambassadors of life Russia thereby introducing herself as a country with outrageous diplomatic illiteracy, Author Svetlana Denisova

    There is already a slightly different illiteracy to attend to. There was no Russia in 1223. DID NOT HAVE! There was a loose conglomerate of individual Russian principalities tearing each other to pieces. The era of Russia begins at the moment when the Russian Empire came to replace the Moscow Kingdom, and this is the 18th century.
    By the way, in the battle of Lipitsa, Russian princes in an internecine battle beat more Russians than the Mongols at Kalka. Feudal fragmentation ... The blue dream of all the haters of Russia: to divide, share, and then suck the juices from the helpless victim. Still want to!
    1. andrew42
      andrew42 3 June 2016 12: 45
      +1
      As for the damage from civil strife, I completely agree. It is not comparable with the "Mongols". And later the "invasions", when Nevryuev and Dyudenyev were brought in, and during other "raids", the Russians beat the Russians, only the wool flew.
  5. Sars
    Sars 31 May 2016 07: 54
    +6
    The author is wrong, the Tatars did not disgrace the Russians. Death without shedding blood is respect for the adversary.
    Although the killing of ambassadors was considered a heinous crime. It is because of this that the population of Kiev and Kozelsk was subsequently slaughtered.
    1. baudolino
      baudolino 31 May 2016 09: 19
      +8
      "Although the murder of ambassadors was considered the most heinous crime" - only among the Mongols. Abuse of unpleasant ambassadors throughout Europe at that time was the norm. Europeans who were not familiar with Genghis Khan's Yasa could not imagine that the assassination of the ambassador was a pretext for war.
    2. Riv
      Riv 31 May 2016 09: 41
      +3
      Who told you that the population of Kiev was slaughtered? No need to be compared to the Ukrainian parliament that billed the Mongols (!) For genocide.
      1. Mikhail Matyugin
        Mikhail Matyugin 31 May 2016 11: 46
        +1
        Quote: Riv
        Who told you that the population of Kiev was slaughtered?

        Eyewitnesses Wilhelm Rubrukvis and Plano Carpini, for example, passing through those places just around the time left many interesting memories.
        1. Riv
          Riv 31 May 2016 16: 59
          +6
          The problem is that I, unlike you, read Carpini. He wrote that the Breslavl merchants were traveling with him to Kiev. In Kiev, he met traders from Constantinople. I wonder what they all needed in a city cut out completely?
          And what happened when Carpini returned?

          "We arrived there fifteen days before the feast of Blessed John the Baptist. The Kievites, having learned about our arrival, all joyfully came out to meet us, it was they who congratulated us, as if we had risen from the dead ..."

          Well, the people of Kiev who were carved came out to meet. :)
          1. andrew42
            andrew42 3 June 2016 12: 48
            +1
            So the question is, who was cut out in Kiev? if we received an answer, it would become clearer WHO stormed Kiev: mythical "Mongols" or "followers of Andrey Bogolyubsky".
    3. ver_
      ver_ 31 May 2016 16: 58
      -3
      ... Kozelsk is a city covered by an epidemic .. Nobody slaughtered its population .. It was besieged by Yaroslav Vsevolodovich and burned, there were no other opportunities to stop the epidemic .., yes - not humanely .., but there was simply no other way ..
      1. Riv
        Riv 1 June 2016 08: 07
        +1
        Yeah ... And the city, covered by an epidemic, resisted burning for almost two months. :) Strongly, it seems, they were ill.
  6. Basil50
    Basil50 31 May 2016 09: 00
    0
    The story of the battle somehow involuntarily brings back memories * of the dashing 90s *. Just like * bros * * scored an arrow * for dividing the feed base.
    * Rurikovich * torn Rus into fodder lands and constantly redistributed between relatives of the city and land, preventing others from feeding. And so it lasted more than one century, reached the point that some descendants of Rurik became ordinary robbers. When it was required, they were not able to abandon local self-government, of course * everyone imagines himself a strategist seeing the battle from the outside *, but contemporaries of those events also emphasized obvious mistakes. It turned out that the Rurikovich degenerated into * gopniks * who do not respect international law and who were simply destroyed, it was later that some of them entered the GOLDEN Horde and, with the permission of the Horde, again * bred and fed *.
    In the described story, the * roamer Ploskinya * is interesting - the ancestor of the * Cossacks * who traded by dragging and dropping ships through the * shifts * and, on occasion, robbing everyone who could not fight back.
    1. King, just king
      King, just king 31 May 2016 10: 51
      -1
      About Ploskinya. If Ploskinya and his comrades had dragged the ships ... but where and from where did he drag them in the steppe?
      Well, let's say "dragged" and robbed on occasion. How long would Ploskinya stay in such a "thieves" place - in view of the strong power in Kiev and among the Polovtsians? Well, if he's not defective on the head.
      1. Basil50
        Basil50 31 May 2016 11: 06
        +3
        Many rivers have changed a lot since then, even the whole Aral Sea has changed a lot. Rivers were the basis of trade routes, and there were many drags. The most * bread * place in the steppe was dragging between the Don and the Volga, * brodniks * have long settled there. For centuries it was possible to rob and hide or join the stronger, roaming - Cossacks. Of course they had * black * times, but * politics * change * ally * to a stronger one was unchanged.
        1. King, just king
          King, just king 31 May 2016 11: 22
          +1
          And where did you get the idea that Ploskinya was a "handler" of ships. HTO, HDE in the annals says about it. There are literally a few words about Ploskinya. You deduced from this some kind of conclusion, and on the basis of your own inference, build a version. But..
          What is Ploskinya in general? Name, nickname, position. What is "Brodnik"? Think less, especially "about the Cossacks."
          1. Basil50
            Basil50 31 May 2016 12: 01
            +4
            About Ploskina there is really only one mention in the annals, but about brodniks during the Batyev invasion there are more references. Sometimes they were * translated * when reading the annals as * tramps *.
            About the fact that the Don Cossacks in their * hands * held a drag between the Don and the Volga a lot of evidence, as well as transport and fords across the rivers. The names of different * ethnic groups * were different, and Cossacks became * Cossacks * only in the eighteenth century, and even that wasn’t all.
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      3. Mikhail Matyugin
        Mikhail Matyugin 31 May 2016 11: 55
        +2
        Quote: King, just king
        If Ploskinya and his comrades had dragged the ships ... but where and from where did he drag them in the steppe?

        No wonder - the gangs of "walking people" who controlled the river crossings were key points for the passage of trade caravans, for which it was easier to pay the bribe, but pass calmly. In view of the arrival of a huge army of conquerors, they hastened to shamefully be the first to suck up to the new powerful overlords.
        1. King, just king
          King, just king 31 May 2016 13: 38
          +2
          What nonsense to write, controlled ....? Any state cherished the caravan routes like the apple of an eye, for customs and trade.
          In Kiev, something was not observed "ruin in the heads" at that time, and the Polovtsians were all normal, in terms of centralization, these "gangs" would have destroyed, like two fingers on the asphalt. The Russian guards on barley horses would not have caught up with the steppe scumbags, yeah.
          1. Mikhail Matyugin
            Mikhail Matyugin 31 May 2016 16: 07
            +1
            Quote: King, just king
            Any state cherished the ridden paths like the apple of an eye, for customs and trade.
            In Kiev, something was not observed "ruin in the heads" at this time, and the Polovtsians were all normal, in terms of centralization, these "gangs" would be destroyed, like two fingers on the asphalt

            In fact, the Wild Field has never been part of the Principality of Kiev or others. And trade routes ran through it. Therefore, there was just where the gangs roamed.

            And the death of Svyatoslav speaks of the importance of control over the river routes.
            1. King, just king
              King, just king 31 May 2016 21: 42
              +1
              Relocation, as a vulnerable point of permanent caravan routes, was very well guarded by regulars or mercenaries, this is logic. I tell you, gangs on caravan routes, this is when there is a discord in the state, and nothing else.
              And did the Wild Field enter here or not? Someone canceled foreign and distant outposts-cordons? Read the epics.

              About Svyatoslav ... Let's not. This is such a dark story with the winter of the prince that no one living now knows how and what was there and never knows.
  7. ver_
    ver_ 31 May 2016 09: 11
    -4
    MONGOLIA was founded in 1920 .. What kind of Mongols are we talking about? .. As far as I am in the courses - time machines have not yet been invented ... There is no need to sow the Nazis - they themselves will be born .. Particularly gifted - those who do not feed bread - let me just tell the story States are a dime a dozen ..
    1. RUSS
      RUSS 31 May 2016 11: 03
      +3
      Quote: ver_
      MONGOLIA was founded in 1920 .. What kind of Mongols are we talking about? .. As far as I am in the courses -

      There is no Kurdistan on the political map of the world at all, but there are Kurds, and what is more, these people are more ancient than Mongols.
      1. Basil50
        Basil50 31 May 2016 11: 10
        +3
        In contrast to the Kurds, the Mongols learned that they were * Mongols * only in the nineteenth century, some still do not know, they think that they are Buryats. Then * Mongolian ancient * legends appeared.
        1. ver_
          ver_ 31 May 2016 12: 54
          +4
          ..Mongols - the unification of the Ayrov and Halki tribes in 1920 and the formation of the State and nation of the Mongols .. Buryats are expelled or damned Aires (the reason for their expulsion or curse is unknown to me) ... live in the Chita and Irkutsk regions ..
          1. Chisayna
            Chisayna 31 May 2016 13: 08
            -1
            And Ulaira live in the Buryatia Res. The names formed from them: Ulan-Ude and Ulan-Bator.
            1. ver_
              ver_ 31 May 2016 13: 20
              +3
              ..Ulan Bator - a hero - an active participant in the association of tribes ....
              1. Chisayna
                Chisayna 31 May 2016 13: 30
                -6
                Ulan-Bator-Krasny Bogatyr-Ilya Muromets. The nephew of Dmitry Donskoy. This is not a "bouquet" for me to overpower. Ver switch to something light.
        2. The comment was deleted.
        3. RUSS
          RUSS 31 May 2016 17: 01
          +1
          Quote: Vasily50
          In contrast to the Kurds, the Mongols learned that they were * Mongols * only in the nineteenth century, some still do not know, they think that they are Buryats.

          The ethnonym "Buryat" was first mentioned in the Mongolian work "The Secret Legend of the Mongols" ("Mongolian Nuusa tobsho") along with such tribes as Khori-tumats, Barguts, Oirats, etc. More reliable information about the ancestors of the Buryats appears in the first half of the 17th century in connection with the arrival of Russians in Eastern Siberia. During this period, Transbaikalia was part of Northern Mongolia, which was part of the Setsen-Khan and Tushet-Khan Khanates. They were dominated by Mongol-speaking peoples and tribes, subdivided into Mongols proper, Khalkha-Mongols, Barguts, Dauras, Khorintsy and others. Cis-Baikal was in tributary dependence on Western Mongolia. The main ethnic tribal groups here were the Ekhirits, Bulagats, Khongodors and Ikinats. All these tribes on both sides of Lake Baikal did not constitute a single nationality; they had differences in language, life and culture.
          1. ver_
            ver_ 31 May 2016 17: 43
            -2
            ... It has already been written, Mongolia was born in 1920 .. The Cossacks of Beketov founded the Chita prison in 1653 - even before the founding of Mongolia ..
      2. The comment was deleted.
    2. The comment was deleted.
    3. Sergej1972
      Sergej1972 31 May 2016 11: 19
      +1
      In the Qing Empire, the terms Inner Mongolia (the current autonomous region of the PRC, Inner Mongolia) and Outer Mongolia (the current independent Mongolia) were used. The Mongols were a privileged group of the population, the second after the Manchus. Russian and foreign travelers and ethnographers of the 19th century wrote a lot about Mongloans. In the world, a mass of ethnic groups did not and does not have their own states.
      1. venaya
        venaya 31 May 2016 12: 15
        +2
        Quote: Sergej1972
        Russian and foreign travelers and ethnographers of the 19th century wrote a lot about Mongloans.

        As you rightly noted in the XNUMXth century! it is only after the publication of the works of the French freemason Karamzin, in the virginity of Kara-Murza. No one had heard of the Mongols before, although the British already knew about the Great Mogul Empire on the territory of Hindustan.
        In the territory of present-day Mongolia in the XNUMXth century there was an Empire of the Jurchen. You will be in Harbin, visit the local museum, there are statues of the Jurchen emperors. Their appearance does not say anything about even the smallest impurity of Mongoloidy in their appearance, but they have vivid external signs of Westerners, now called europioids. At present, in modern Mongolia there are already tribes of the Mongoloid type, who came to this territory at the end of the XNUMXth century, when the weather and local vegetation changed, all this is confirmed by archaeological excavations. These Mongoloid tribes, mainly the hulk tribe in the XIIth century, were still in the territory of northeastern Tibet, still speaks the languages ​​of Tibetan dialects and even look very similar to today's Tibetans. The Buryats, who have the greatest Mongoloid appearance, then lived in general in the region of southern China, which was not part of the Jurchen Empire. Now this story has been described many times, take an interest.
        1. mark7
          mark7 1 June 2016 00: 04
          0
          Quote: venaya

          As you rightly noted in the XNUMXth century! it is only after the publication of the works of the French freemason Karamzin, in the virginity of Kara-Murza. No one had heard of the Mongols before, although the British already knew about the Great Mogul Empire on the territory of Hindustan.
          In the territory of present-day Mongolia in the XNUMXth century there was an Empire of the Jurchen. You will be in Harbin, visit the local museum, there are statues of the Jurchen emperors. Their appearance does not say anything about even the smallest impurity of Mongoloidy in their appearance, but they have vivid external signs of Westerners, now called europioids. At present, in modern Mongolia there are already tribes of the Mongoloid type, who came to this territory at the end of the XNUMXth century, when the weather and local vegetation changed, all this is confirmed by archaeological excavations. These Mongoloid tribes, mainly the hulk tribe in the XIIth century, were still in the territory of northeastern Tibet, still speaks the languages ​​of Tibetan dialects and even look very similar to today's Tibetans. The Buryats, who have the greatest Mongoloid appearance, then lived in general in the region of southern China, which was not part of the Jurchen Empire. Now this story has been described many times, take an interest.

          So, with whom, then, did the Slavs still fight on the "kalka"?
          1. andrew42
            andrew42 3 June 2016 12: 52
            0
            Well, if there were the so-called "brodniks" by the chronicler, then the Slavs were already fighting the Slavs, at least in this aspect.
      2. The comment was deleted.
      3. RUSS
        RUSS 31 May 2016 17: 05
        -1
        Quote: Sergej1972
        Russian and foreign travelers and ethnographers of the 19th century wrote a lot about Mongloans

        At the time of the arrival of the Russians, the pre-Baikal Buryats often at first often encountered their troops, went to prison, so in 1631 the Bratsk prison was burnt by the Buryats.

        The instigators of the Buryats' speeches were patrimonial noyons, dissatisfied with the loss of full influence on their people, but Cossack leaders often provided the basis for retaliatory actions. In the late sixteenth and early seventeenth centuries there were frequent cases of the unification of the Buryats and ordinary Cossacks against the governor-extortionists.

        At that time, the Eastern Buryats suffered even more from the Mongol raids, and therefore they voluntarily transferred to the Russians. In addition, detachments of the Manchu Manzhi Khan, who had already conquered Eastern and Inner Mongolia by that time, with which the Hori detachments led by Azhirai-buhe, Babja-Baras bator and others, began to come from the east.
    4. Silhouette
      Silhouette 31 May 2016 14: 54
      -1
      By depriving the ambassadors of life, Russia thereby presented itself as a country with outrageous diplomatic illiteracy,


      Having written this, the author presented himself as a man with outrageous historical illiteracy. Ale, a garage, what, Russia in the 13th century?

      Well and no better:
      the action of the Kiev princes was regarded as real barbarism.


      Who did he regard so? World community? Cutting ambassadors, of course, is not the same, but with the Mongolian ambassadors this was done almost everywhere, including in Western Europe.

      As a result, the attitude of the Mongols sharply worsened not only to the princes, but also to the Russians in general.

      Another nonsense. It is not a relationship, but the desire or unwillingness to recognize oneself as slaves without a fight.
  8. Mangel olys
    Mangel olys 31 May 2016 09: 13
    +4
    Judging by the comments, people begin to think. Thank you men for an objective assessment of these historical events.
  9. sivuch
    sivuch 31 May 2016 09: 17
    +5
    Actually, they did this quite often with the ambassadors. NAP, something similar happened in Khorezm (and with the same consequences)
  10. King, just king
    King, just king 31 May 2016 10: 43
    +7
    Historians still cannot say exactly where the battle of Kalka was, and the author writes how he embroiders. I have already said that where there is a sentence in the annals, there is an article where the paragraph is a story, or a novel.

    About the ambassadors. But such a moment. After the Ryazan, the Tatar ambassadors went to Yuri in Vladimir, and as if after this departure, the chronicle fell silent. Those. from an independent state the Principality of Ryazan - the ambassadors left alive. BUT! After all, the Tatars destroyed the reciprocal Ryazan embassy, ​​headed by Fedor, allegedly because of the increased sexuality of Batu, saying that he wanted Eupraxia. What is it about the inviolable person of the ambassador of the Tatars?
    1. Riv
      Riv 31 May 2016 11: 26
      +1
      And who said that Batu wanted exactly Eupraxius? Why not the prince himself? The chronicler was not there. The Ryazan embassy was cut out. Could it be that the khan himself, personally, went and lamented in front of everyone: "The prince did not want to share, so the ax-head had to! .."

      The most vital version seems to be that the Ryazan prince simply wanted to join the Horde. But it did not grow together. Batu needed prey, not half-dead allies. And what could be better than leaving the enemy without a commander before the offensive? So, as they say now, the prince was pulled by the market, getting to the bottom of the details.
      1. King, just king
        King, just king 31 May 2016 14: 07
        -1
        Are you thumping a Riv, or are you kidding somehow?
        In the first paragraph, they came up with it, it got carried away ... After all, according to the version, the prince's "uncle" escaped, he told me.

        On the second paragraph. Well, give at least one evidence of your version, more or less documentary, but not from those who received "secret knowledge from the Atlanteans."
        1. Riv
          Riv 31 May 2016 16: 54
          +1
          Yeah ... And this uncle who survived managed to bury the bodies according to the same version. In the middle of the Khan’s bid. Chuck Norris and the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles nervously smoke aside.

          What evidence do you need other than the situation itself? Imagine: you are a Ryazan prince. The arrival of Batu is not a surprise for you. You managed to collect the militia, and your squad is always in the saddles. There are not many options. Either fight, or agree that the Tatars do not touch you. The second is possible if you buy them off, or join them. And what, you really want to just pay off? Despite the fact that the Tatars can take whatever they want, if they pass the city to them.

          So either fight or join the strong. There is no third. And if you want to fight, then you will not personally go to visit.
          1. King, just king
            King, just king 31 May 2016 21: 35
            0
            As "uncle" buried, it is to "uncle".

            Do you have a telepathic connection with Batu? What did he need? Any bad world is worse than a good quarrel. Batu needed tributaries, not corpses.

            "Fight" - "agree" - "buy off" - "join" - what are you talking about, Riv?
            Ryazans sent a reciprocal embassy with an heir, to clarify the situation, the embassy was destroyed, the Ryazans left to fight.
            The arrival of Batu was just a surprise, because the steppes did not attack in winter. Ryazans probably went into the field, because thought that a small horde of zipoons wanted to.

            The evidence, I need, is not your version and notions, but at least a line from the annals in support of.
            1. Riv
              Riv 1 June 2016 08: 24
              -3
              Batu needed tributaries, not corpses.

              So what did I write a little earlier ??? Extraction was needed. With tribute - this is how it goes. But you need to feed your warriors right now.

              Ryazan fought out.

              You have some kind of children's ideas about the militia. Do you think this is how simple it is: to assemble it? Then, after all, there were no military registration and enlistment offices; in three days, the militia cannot be gathered from all Ryazan lands. In fact, they cannot be assembled in three weeks. While the messengers reach the outskirts, until they gather there, until they reach Ryazan ... The Ryazan prince, however, not only managed to do all this, but also reached the river. Voronezh, where it was defeated.

              Well, about the "zipuns" - you're just delusional. After all, if Aponitsa actually escaped from the khan's headquarters, then he should have had at least a rough idea of ​​the size of the Tatar army. At least to understand that not some kind of bek is running in, but the whole horde has come. And what is the point of sending an embassy with a prince's son at the head to some petty Tatar?

              If common sense is not evidence for a person, then you can’t prove anything to him.
              1. King, just king
                King, just king 1 June 2016 12: 08
                -1
                No, citizen of Riv, you are raving, inventing your own versions and building evidence based on your fantasies.

                By Ryazan. First, only the Nikon Chronicle speaks about the battle, fragmentarily.
                Secondly, not a word at all about the militia, probably if there was a battle, then the horse squads of Ryazan-Murom-Pronsk participated. Rashid ad-Din does not write anything about the "Ryazan field" battle at all.

                About tribute. What is the prey? The army did not come on the raid, but on an aggressive campaign. Territories and tributaries. If production were necessary, then no one would take Ryazan, no one would take Vladimir and so on.

                About the embassy. And that the embassy should count the number of troops? Straight to the heads and tails. Already the embassy was conducted in the "right" way.

                Your main version, Riv, is about the desire of the Ryazan prince to join the Horde, but he, you see, "was not taken". Well, Riv, prove your version to the community by using your sources, not your own conclusions. Just don't run into the bushes.

                Riv, I suggest you. If you don’t have any evidence or any kind of documentary evidence for your versions (I personally didn’t understand what you want to say) it’s incomprehensible, let’s give up. I don’t read tales, except for the brothers Grimm and Hoffmann, I like their tales.

                Only you write, the answer.
                1. Riv
                  Riv 1 June 2016 13: 07
                  -1
                  So there was no battle? Wherever you look, you had nothing. And about the annals ...
                  If common sense is not evidence for a person, then you can’t prove anything to him.

                  You can't prove it. You will be stubbornly banging your head against the wall and repeating: "Chronicles ... Chronicles ..." Well, you yourself will get a grasp of your words. "Conquest campaign" - why did not you conquer ??? Why were the cities burned if tributaries were needed? How much tribute will you take from the ashes? Novgorod, Smolensk why not "conquered" - the strength was not enough? Despite the fact that later they walked to Europe quite successfully. Why, finally, did the same Russian princes remain in power in the "conquered" country ??? It is as if the Germans in 41, having taken Kiev, would have retained in the localities the entire nomenclature of the CPSU (b) and the police in addition.

                  In general, relocate, Evgeny Vaganovich.
                  1. King, just king
                    King, just king 1 June 2016 17: 39
                    -1
                    Riv, I think enough.

                    I wrote clearly that you tried to put forward a version that the Ryazan princes wanted to get to Batu, but it did not work out. I, you, a citizen of Riv, asked to prove this, to put it mildly, idea. If, you citizen Riv, have nothing to say about this, then go through the woods.

                    Let's skip the rest. If you don't have enough intelligence, why and why they burned the rebellious cities, and added "the apotheosis of war", then what have I got to do with it? They burned and folded, absolutely not because all the conquerors were maniacs from Elm Street.

                    And throw this stupid "Evgeny Vaganovich", you pop everywhere, where there is nothing to say.
                    1. King, just king
                      King, just king 1 June 2016 18: 01
                      +2
                      Riv, you are a normal guy, like everyone else present, with your quirks, not the point ... I try to never give advice on the internet, right there all with ambitions, touchy, flammable like kerosene vapor. But still. When you push your personal versions, add "in my personal opinion" or "possibly". In such situations, if screwed to the wall, you can at least get away with "personal opinion". Physical education hello.
                2. ver_
                  ver_ 4 June 2016 08: 40
                  0
                  ... it is the horse squads that are called - Tatars ..
  11. Bruss
    Bruss 31 May 2016 11: 49
    +2
    Interesting, but ...
    There are no witnesses. The source is doubtful.
    Pure fiction! And I wonder where the Christian Ploskinya came from in the detachment of the "Mongols" and why suddenly, the princes accepted his offer? First day at war? Yes, they fought all their lives and would hardly have been led to such a "divorce" from Ploskini! After all, he is a rogue, a robber without family and tribe! His promise to the princes is an empty phrase! Is it not?
    1. kalibr
      31 May 2016 12: 06
      +1
      The text that everyone is guided by is in the annals (see PSRL), something can be taken at 100%, something is a little thought out. If a little, like here, then it is bearable.
    2. sibiryak10
      sibiryak10 31 May 2016 12: 11
      +1
      Indeed! If the Tatars killed everyone, who told about the betrayal of Ploskini? He walked and boasted? Or other brodniks shared information?
  12. ver_
    ver_ 31 May 2016 12: 20
    -2
    ..I have already counted 5 minuses - eco sausages of the national people .. how nice it was for them to realize their greatness when their ancestors from uluses got out and cut the throats of the Russians like sheep .. but then they do not recognize them as a nation or nationality - just Tatar equestrian warrior - that’s the zrada then .., put a minus, it seems easier - it means overpowering ..
    1. Mobik
      Mobik 31 May 2016 12: 40
      -5
      Yes, it’s not you who crap one’s in public, but the type impressed everyone present here with the greatness of the Russian people. Nude nude .. Self-hypnosis is like masturbation, nice but fruitless.
  13. Bruss
    Bruss 31 May 2016 13: 47
    -1
    There it is!
    Brodniks (bordniks, brokers, brokers, brodnitsy, brodnitsy) are an ethnically mixed population of the coast of the Sea of ​​Azov, the Lower Don and Dniester in the XNUMXth-XNUMXth centuries
    1. King, just king
      King, just king 31 May 2016 14: 11
      0
      Wikipedia is buggy and burns not for kids.
      1. Bruss
        Bruss 31 May 2016 16: 16
        +1
        Encyclopedic Dictionary F.A. Brockhaus and I.A. Efron gives this option: - Brodniki
        or "vagabonds" and "bronniks" (in the chronicle) - according to V. N. Tatishchev's interpretation, people settled on the Don to show fords and crossings, belonging to the Russian tribe and professing the Christian religion.
        1. King, just king
          King, just king 31 May 2016 21: 50
          0
          So this is "according to Tatishchev's interpretation"!
        2. donskoy kazak
          donskoy kazak 3 June 2016 13: 24
          0
          Wander (move) and roam (move) one and the same. Brodniks = Nomads.
          Che fantasize?
  14. Rorabek
    Rorabek 31 May 2016 14: 08
    +1
    ..... here the Great Suvorov won not by number but by skill ... after the defeat of the Russian troops on the Kalka river (superiority in manpower, it didn’t really help, complete defeat and a feast on the bodies of the wounded ... ...) the Mongols entered Bulgaria and raked to the fullest, in view of that, fell for their own main trick:
    (tactical technique) an imaginary retreat in order to spread the attacking enemy and then a crushing counterstrike, and here superiority in strength and means does not matter ... it is enough to coordinate the strike group in time and place ... and so 4000 Mongols were captured by the Bulgars and the battle went down in history as a "ram" ... proud and self-confident (as it turned out later) Bulgars exchanged prisoners for the same number of rams, which mortally offended the Mongols ... the Mongols gathered their strength (3 years preparing) and, making maximum efforts, defeated Volga Bulgaria ... here's to you, why not history
    the use of tactical techniques in the form of an imaginary retreat and subsequent counterattack, the lack of uniform control are the main reasons for the defeat of the Russian-Polovtsian regiments
    1. King, just king
      King, just king 31 May 2016 14: 15
      +1
      And here it is not Vicki who burns ... Where are the firewood from? "Intimate knowledge" unknown?
  15. ver_
    ver_ 31 May 2016 16: 27
    -6
    Quote: bruss
    Interesting, but ...
    There are no witnesses. The source is doubtful.
    Pure fiction! And I wonder where the Christian Ploskinya came from in the detachment of the "Mongols" and why suddenly, the princes accepted his offer? First day at war? Yes, they fought all their lives and would hardly have been led to such a "divorce" from Ploskini! After all, he is a rogue, a robber without family and tribe! His promise to the princes is an empty phrase! Is it not?

    ... between us, girls speaking, Christianity did not yet exist, there was paganism .. Christ was crucified in 1185 .. I wonder why no one pays attention to such things? Apparently the principle is working - if I don't like it, then it’s not so. And the pectoral cross is a pagan amulet. Ioann Kalita burned out the nascent Christianity with fire and sword and executed the apostates .. So, too, Ioann the Terrible went to eradicate the "Jewism" ..
    1. Kostya Andreev
      Kostya Andreev 31 May 2016 17: 49
      +1
      read less Fomenko and others.
  16. Chisayna
    Chisayna 31 May 2016 17: 45
    0
    Yes, everything is clear, faith-ver, you girls have "this" on certain days. My wife takes Nurofen. Accept you and help you. And communicate only in your own circle: girls with girls, there are pastries, manicure, hairstyles, etc. ...
  17. Kostya Andreev
    Kostya Andreev 31 May 2016 17: 57
    +1
    The author is well done! however, no one knows what was there, only conjectures and hypotheses that have a right to exist.
  18. donskoy kazak
    donskoy kazak 31 May 2016 19: 52
    -2
    Dear commentators, stop laughing. In order to understand the events described, you need to read at least that.
    1. Rashid ad-Din. "Collection of chronicles". Translation from Persian, ed. prof. Semenov. 1946-1960 2.Joan de Plano Carpini. "History of the Mongals". 1911 3. Wilhelm de Rubruck. "Travel to the Eastern countries". 1911 4.Marco Polo. "A book about the diversity of the world". 5. "Kartlis Tskhovreba". History of Georgia. Academy of Sciences of Georgia. 2008. 6 Ruy Gonzalez de Clavijo "Journey to the court of Timur in 1406" .1881 7.Letter from the Hungarian br. Juliana. "On the origin of the Tatars". 8. "ZADONSHINA" A WORD ABOUT THE GREAT PRINCE DMITRY IVANOVICH AND ABOUT HIS BROTHER, PRINCE VLADIMIR ANDREEVICH, HOW THEY HAVE BEATED THE SUPOSTATE OF THEIR KING MOTHER. Translated by L.A. Dmitriev. 9. "TALE ABOUT MAMAI'S KILL" 10. "History of the Khazars". Artamonov M.I. 11.Flerov V.S. "Cities" and "castles" of the Khazar Kaganate. 12. Khazar correspondence. Joseph Hasdai's answer. 13. Artamonov MI "Medieval settlements on the Don". 14. Popov A. "History of the Don army" .1814. 15.Bagryanorodny K. "On the management of the empire". 16. "Byzantine tradition about the Atil river". Cherednichenko. Efandov. 17. INOK MAGAKIA "THE HISTORY OF THE ARROWS PEOPLE" (Mongolian). 18. Jammi - at - Tavarih. 19.Materials for a historical-geographical dictionary. Barsov N. 1865 20. Don Aboriginal varieties. L. G Naumova, A.M. Aliev. 21. NEWS FROM HUNGARIAN MISSIONERS (1235-1320) about the Tatars and Eastern Europe. 22. About the existence of Great Hungary, discovered by brother Richard. 23. Letter from brother Johannes Wengra. 24. "Genealogical history of the Tatars" Abulgachi-bayadur-khan. 25 Bible. Old Testament.
    After reading, you will understand the absurdity of the article proposed by the author. Like the whole absurdity of Soviet history.
  19. Torins
    Torins 31 May 2016 22: 43
    0
    Quote: ver_
    Tatar = Khazarin = Cossack - a later name - this is not a nation or nationality - this is an equestrian warrior, that is, cavalry ..
    Genghis Khan = Caesar Khan = Gaius Julius Caesar ==== These are all casts from George Yuri Dolgoruky .. Who was not born at that time .. Yuri Vsevolodovich = Yuri Dolgoruky ..
    Ruthenia (country of military people, Scythia, Country of Huns, Tartaria, Country of Gaidariks (cities), MOGOLIA (great) ..- so other nations were called at different times ..

    You have that wonderful weed is not over yet? Can share? fellow
  20. donskoy kazak
    donskoy kazak 1 June 2016 00: 05
    0
    History cannot be studied by insignificant events in a short period of time, which is the battle on Kalka, which did not take place! Because there was no Kalka either. Just like the Mongol invasion, that is, the Iga in the sense in which we have been accustomed to present it from school. To begin with, I will give a very significant example. The First and Second World Wars. Over fifty million people were exterminated using the most modern means. The "Mongols" never dreamed of such a thing. Political changes took place in every state, the boundaries of political formations also changed. But it is impossible to deny:
    - the presence of ethnic stability. What does this mean? All peoples living in EURASIA retained their ancestral places of residence during the war period under study, regardless of political, economic and state formations. They did not move in an unknown way for many thousands of kilometers, and did not disappear without a trace; Germans still live in Germany, Poles in Poland, Belarusians in Belarus, Romanians in Romania, etc. I advise the most ardent Russians to take a DNA test to be sure of their Turkic origin - R1a or R1b. Modern Mongols have a haplogroup "C". Medieval R1a or R1b. There were no "Mongol Mongols" until the 20th century, they were called -Khalkha.
    - the same historical events and personalities, could be described by different peoples, from different angles of view, indicating the changed names, as a result of differences in the languages ​​themselves, as well as at different time periods by dates, due to the use of different time systems;

    For example: The Türkic name "Togrul Khan" is translated as FALCON, which in our usual language would mean - RURIK-prince.
    Moreover, Esugei = George.
    For complete clarity, I make some explanations about the existence of double names of Turkic and Greek.
    Alexander the Great - Iskander.
    So with the Tatar-Mongols or rather the Mongol-Tatars or more correctly the Mogul Tartars. Half of Russia is today Turkic-speaking. And you need to know that the translation from the Turkic language (Chuvash.) Tărta- (tarta) is "twist, bridge the nest" and Mogul tarta is a BIG NEST !!!!
    Genghis Khan gentlemen, this translates as Grand Duke.
    And so I give a brief genealogy of the Chingizids-Rurikovich. I'll start with Olga = Olan Goa.
    Olan goa gave birth from a red-haired emperor with blue eyes.
    Olga spent several years with the red-haired with blue eyes of the Byzantine emperor Constantine the purple.
    1. donskoy kazak
      donskoy kazak 1 June 2016 00: 08
      +1
      Where in 1223 the Russian princes gathered on the Tatars in Mongolia?
  21. donskoy kazak
    donskoy kazak 1 June 2016 00: 05
    -1
    Esugey Bagatur, the father of Genghis Khan, was poisoned like Yuri Dolgoruky, the father of Vsevolod "Big Nest".
    The first to receive the title "Grand Duke" is Vsevolod - the Big Nest - named Dmitry.
    The first title of Genghis Khan (khan over khans) gets Demurchi.
    The eldest son of Demurchi Jochi went against his father’s will and died on the hunt.
    The eldest son of Vsevolod Konstantin repeated the fate of Jochi.
    Yaroslav Vsevolodovich double of Khan Ogedey, both poisoned in the horde at the same time.
    Vladimir Vsevolodovich and Tului Khan are historical doubles.
    Kulkan and Yuri Vsevolodovich coincidentally beheaded near Ryazan.
    The son of Yaroslav Vsevolodovich, Alexander Yaroslavovich, receives the nickname "Nevsky", and the son of Ogedei, Kadan, for the same events in Tallinn (Telenkin) receives the nickname "Nevryuy". His brother Andrei Yaroslavovich receives the Great Reign. And Kadan's brother Guyuk receives power in the Horde from the same khansha Turakin.
    Batu - the son of Jochi is Vasilko Konstantinovich.
    Further. Not a single Vsevolodovich participated in the battle with the Tatars on the side of the Russian-Polovtsian troops.
    Because they are the Tartars or the "Big Nest".

    Moreover, all objects of the annals of the Karakorum are located on the Don. Moreover, everything is in the places and at the distances indicated in the annals.



    Then the question arises: What did the Kiev princes on the Don (Kalka) during the conquest of Persia by Vsevolod and his absence?
    The second question is where did the Tatars live at that time?
    "The Cherkasy, like the Russians, profess the Greek faith .... Cherkasy-Tatar tribe, a rude and gloomy people ... They call the warriors in their own language - Cossacks, which is why many are mistaken, considering the Cossacks a special people." (Samuel Collins 1660s.) Small Tartary is the Don !!!. And it was the Russian princes who went to rob the Don together with the Polovtsy. Where they raked in full.
    The fact that the Scythians = Khazars = Tatars = Mogoltartaram (large nest) = Cossacks can not even argue.
    What independent and unbiased Georgian and Persian annals tell us.



    -history is the past, reflected in the records of witnesses and contemporaries of current events, from the information of which, sometimes contradictory, a possible historical reality is formed;
    1. andrew42
      andrew42 3 June 2016 13: 02
      +1
      In general, I support something like this. At least the version is complete, and the motives of the actions of all of the above persons seem to be meaningful taking into account political situations. This is not "Karamzin", which is incoherent, causeless and dope always in one key "There was a prince. He went to the Kiev table. He was good and the squad loved him." All! Neither why, nor why, nor "what I wanted." I went to Kalka against "someone", just a battle "no one knows where", and died. He was a good prince!
  22. donskoy kazak
    donskoy kazak 1 June 2016 00: 13
    -1
    This is Kalka i.e.K-L-K.Kulikovo field. The Ruskopolovets troops lost here.
  23. Dal arya
    Dal arya 1 June 2016 01: 01
    +4
    The term “Tatar-Mongols” is very widespread - it’s like something whole and kindred. But who was in Kazan, who talked with the Tatars, let them say who they are? Narrow-eyed Mongoloids of short stature? Yes, nothing like that -Tartars are black-eyed brunettes, women there is a small hairline on the face, it is rather a Middle Eastern type.
    This is a mystery of history, but it must be solved.
    1. Chisayna
      Chisayna 1 June 2016 01: 40
      +1
      Part of the defeated Khazar Khaganate was mixed with them. Here you have the Middle Eastern type. And the Mongols are not all short in stature. Among them are many healthy people. They have a lot of cattle, always bulk milk, that of mare, that of cow. I often go to Ulangom and see the Mongols.
  24. donskoy kazak
    donskoy kazak 1 June 2016 06: 13
    -1
    Genghis Khan is a European, red-haired and with blue eyes, believing in Jesus Christ and Carrying out his commandments with the help of fire and sword.
  25. donskoy kazak
    donskoy kazak 1 June 2016 06: 18
    -1
    This is written by Rashid ad-Din. They are Christians.
  26. donskoy kazak
    donskoy kazak 1 June 2016 06: 24
    -1
    It is the Lord, because the Chinet (Blue) Mountain is also on the Don.
    1. sibiryak10
      sibiryak10 1 June 2016 09: 06
      +2
      Where does the quote come from?
      1. donskoy kazak
        donskoy kazak 1 June 2016 17: 49
        0
        "History of Georgia" - Kartlis Cxovreba.
  27. donskoy kazak
    donskoy kazak 1 June 2016 06: 24
    +1
    This place is called the Epiphany.
  28. donskoy kazak
    donskoy kazak 1 June 2016 06: 38
    -1
    There have never been any Mongols from modern Mongolia with the army.
    Genghis Khan is Yafetid from the lot of Yaphet, i.e. Europeid: Many genealogy books prove this.
    It is the same with China, which is in fact from China City (Moscow) .Thus, Andrei Bogolyubsky - Grand Duke of China - presented himself. The road from Karakoram to China with postal stations (Pits) for 1000 km is from Don to Moscow.
    1. Riv
      Riv 1 June 2016 13: 13
      +2
      Ek is flattering you ...
      1. donskoy kazak
        donskoy kazak 1 June 2016 18: 02
        0
        It’s not flattering me, it’s flattering your brothers! You’re far from the topic, but there too. I studied all the chronicles concerning Iga. Fortunately or unfortunately, but this is historical Fake! As well as stupid speculations about the extermination of peoples. That the Russians destroyed the Soviet Union and conquered the territory? Turn on the brain!
  29. F.Vastag
    F.Vastag 1 June 2016 06: 52
    -2
    The defeat was largely due to the position of the ancestors of the current Ukrainians - the Kiev Princes (participants in the campaign) and their Kiev warriors - who stood as a Separate Camp from the main Russian army (led by Mstislav Udatny) - Udelnaya Gryznya: Who is "Chief" and who should Stand over whom (To command) manifested itself then (in the 13th century) in all its "glory" (the Kievans considered that They were the Main and Should lead the All-Russian army on the March - for which they cruelly and paid (Almost the entire Kiev army was slain (none of the Kiev squad returned to Kiev), and on the Kiev princes and the Noble Kiev warriors-vigilantes - for several days the Mongols Feasted-Mocked (putting Boards on the connected Kievites and sitting on top of them - for the Bloody Feast) .Russian Druzhina (and Princes) set out then (in that unfortunate campaign) - in Defense (and to help) the Polovtsy - the steppe people, nomads (direct ancestors of modern KAZAKHs), who in the West were also called the Kumans (or Kipchaks - between other steppe peoples dami). The fact is that the Russian Princes (and the top of the Russian Druzhin) were related (Blood) to the Polovtsians by marriage (Dynastic) Ties (many Polovtsian Princesses became Legal Wives of Russian Princes at that time (11-13 centuries) and acted together by Joint Forces (in the Campaign) against the Foes and the Defense of Each Other (although there have been clashes between the Russian Princes and the Polovtsian Khanas - it is enough to recall "The Tale of Igor's Regiment" and Igor Svyatoslavich's Unhappy Campaign in 1185 and the Death of the Russian Army (from the city of Novgorod- Seversky) in the Polovtsian steppes (with the subsequent "Lament of Yaroslavna", etc.) So, the Russian Principalities (Princes) were Closely connected (Krovno) with the Polovtsy - and did not come to the Help (to the Rescue) to their relatives (Khan Kotyan and other Polovtsy Stanam) - (who were Brutally oppressed, killed and beaten at that time by the Mongols who invaded the Polovtsian steppes - They simply could not (the Mongols directly declared to the Russians that they considered the Polovtsi (ancestors of the Kazakhs) their Grooms and Slaves and asked not to interfere in Their (with the Polovtsy) Showdown - the Russians Refused (to throw the Polovtsi to the Arbitrariness of the Mongols) and took part in a joint Campaign (but because of Disagreements and feuds between themselves (who is the Main in the Campaign) and Separate (as they would say today " Nezalezhnaya ") then the positions of the Kievites and their Princes (ancestors of the present Ukrainians) - suffered a painful defeat (although in terms of the number of Troops (and the bravery of soldiers), the All-Russian Army was in no way inferior to the Mongolian army of Jebe-Noin and Subudai-Bagatur - and having acted as a United Front- Force - could well count on the Final victory in that Battle of 1223 g)
    1. F.Vastag
      F.Vastag 1 June 2016 07: 20
      +1
      I’ll add only, yes - there was Betrayal-Treachery of Brodnikov (at the final stage of the battle) and Cheesy flight of the Mongols (Luring - Military Trick) at the beginning of the Battle - but this was not the Main reason for the defeat, but the Discord and Lack of Unity in the All-Russian Army itself ( Bickering among the Princes). Everyone wanted to Conquer Himself (so that victory was won under his command) and, as they say, Tyanul (in 1223) blanket (general command) on himself - which led to such a sad outcome
      1. ver_
        ver_ 1 June 2016 08: 41
        -1
        ... so Otkel Mongols then appeared - they are a product of 1920, what’s the logic?
    2. svp67
      svp67 1 June 2016 18: 09
      +1
      Quote: F. Vastag
      The defeat was largely due to the position of the ancestors of the current Ukrainians - the Kiev Princes (participants in the campaign) and their Kiev warriors - who had become a Separate Camp from the main Russian army (which was headed by Mstislav Udatny) -

      You have completely "demolished" the tower, then what kind of "Ukrainians"? And nothing that the same Udatny was a prince in Galich for a long time ... That is, it remains to be attributed to the ancestors of the "Westerners" ...
  30. donskoy kazak
    donskoy kazak 1 June 2016 08: 32
    -4
    Modern Kazakhs have never been Polovtsians! Kazakhs are Kalmyks and their haplogroup is "C". The Polovtsian khans are "Mongol" slaves according to the covenant. Because they are the children of Hagar-Ismailtians. Like Khan Mamai. Illegal children, children of a slave. Friendship between Kiev and Poland has always been. Poles and Cumans are genetically and according to the Bible the same thing, and family ties have always been there.
    A good example of Taras Bulba.
    1. F.Vastag
      F.Vastag 1 June 2016 09: 09
      0
      Kalmyks are these Direct descendants (and the closest Relatives) of the Mongols (so to speak, the Direct branch of the Mongols but not even close descendants of the Polovtsy). Polovtsy wandered in the Steppes in the 11th century and the current Ancestors of the Kalmyks came (to the Polovtsian Steppes) in the parish of the Mongols (in the 13th century ) with the first test trip (in 1223) and after with Batu. Would you at least ask (for the sake of Interest) - that the closest (according to Genes) kindred people of the Mongols are Kalmyks and Buryats (and not even descendants of Polovtsev-Kipchpkov-Kuman - Kazakhs) on the territory of Russia
  31. sibiryak10
    sibiryak10 1 June 2016 09: 02
    -1
    Expected Fomenkovtsy flood discussion
  32. donskoy kazak
    donskoy kazak 1 June 2016 10: 12
    0
    In addition to the primary sources, I advise you to read the Fomenkovites! And the bible too! Especially the Old Testament. It will immediately become clear who such a Mogul people are.
    The tribe of Reuben (Ruben) - Terek Cossacks (river). The knee of Simeon - Kuban Cossacks (fortress).
    Knee Naftali (deer) - Don Cossacks. The tribe of Ephraim (unicorn), the royal tribe is Cherkasy. In life they protect the kings.
    Zavulon’s knee (sailing ship) Zaporozhye Cossacks, etc. They are Scythians = Khazars = great Tartars and Cossacks.
    Learn the story from the ground up. History = "from the Torah" = Old Testament.
    It makes no sense to explain the continuous historical cycle of the people in one post.
  33. F.Vastag
    F.Vastag 1 June 2016 10: 26
    -2
    If only warriors of Mongolian origin (Ethnic Mongols) participated in the Battle of Kalka from the side of the Mongol army, then after the Defeat of the Volga Bulgaria and the subordination of all Steppe-Nomadic peoples to the Mongols, Batu participated (in addition to the Mongols themselves) in the campaign against Russia (in addition to the Mongols themselves) and all the conquered subordinates Mongols Stepnyaks (therefore it is customary to call Batu's campaign to Russia - "Mongol-Tatar Invasion" (where all Non-Mongols (in Batu's army) were called Generally "Tatars" - hence the term "Mongol-Tatars"), the Mongols themselves were in There are not so many Batu troops (several tens of thousands of Horse Fighters + still different wall-bit Chinese rams with local Chinese servants-inventors) - but they were Very Well-trained Disciplined Close-knit and Well-trained Fighters (those Ancient Mongols) - obeying the Iron Laws Yases (Genghis Khan) - and able to quickly suppress (that is, in the literal Sense of Breaking the Spine of Anyone) Any resistance and disobedience (in the row dakh of the same Steppe Hordes - which they (Batu and Mongols) and drove to the attack of Russian cities in 1237
    1. ver_
      ver_ 1 June 2016 11: 39
      -1
      ... it looks like there are a lot of strange people on the forum - they stubbornly dream of Mongols, who were not there - however, "white fever" .., stubbornly "dream of Tatars" - well, there was no such nation .. Ulyanov-Lenin in 1920 in an article called the inhabitants of the former Bulgar kingdom on the Volga (Kazan kingdom) by the Tatars and ... took root .. The Bulgar (Kazan) kingdom was defeated by Ivan the Terrible .. The correct name of the inhabitants of this kingdom is Bulgars, not Tatars .. Not so long ago the tourist motor ship Bulgaria sank. .. I wish more adequate ..
      1. F.Vastag
        F.Vastag 1 June 2016 12: 49
        +1
        In 1229 (6 years after the Battle of Kalka), the Mongols utterly defeated the joint Bulgars and Polovtsian army near the Yaik River (present-day Ural). In 1236 (a year before the invasion of the Ord Batu into Northeastern Russia), the Mongol army, led by the faithful commander Genghis Khan Sabudai-Bagatur, walked across the Volga Bulgaria with Fire and Sword (destroying almost all cities and killing a lot of the population) - practically it was Slaughter of the Volga Bulgars. In 1239, the Mongols re-invaded the Volga Bulgaria, which had just begun to recover from the Pogrom of 1236, and again Burned everything in its path (in 1240, having suppressed several last minor uprisings in Bulgaria - the Mongols finally included Volga Bulgaria into the Golden Horde, which after the Pogrom (Golden Hordes) by Tamerlane - disintegrated and turned into the Kazan Khanate (with the capital in Kazan) Remnants of the Bulgars (those who did not fled to Vladimir Land in 1237-1239 under the Hand of Vladimir Prince Yuri Vsevolodovich) - entered (dissolved) in the Ethnogenesis of the present modern Kazan Tatars After (1240) and the Pogrom that the Mongols staged in the Volga Bulgaria - Volga Bulgaria (as a State formation) and Bulgars (as an Ethnos) cease to exist, and become a Part of the Golden Horde (later the Kazan Khanate) and to a small extent participate in ethnogenesis of a new ethnos - Kazan Tatars (so that the Present Tatarstan (and Tatars) - to the Volga Bulgaria and its inhabitants (Bulgars) - n practically have no relation (that is, very Indirect and Remote). And Ivan the Terrible Gromil and Took the Kazan Khanate and Tatars (and not the Volga Bulgaria and Bulgars - who fell under the Terrible invasion and Ruin from the Mongols in the 13th century). And the fact that the Modern Tatars called their Motor ship "Bulgaria" does not mean that the present Tatars are the Successors (Descendants) of those Bulgars and Volga Bulgaria of the 13th century (just like the current Ukrainians are not the Descendants of the "Ancient Ukrov", as they call themselves)
        1. ver_
          ver_ 4 June 2016 10: 28
          0
          F. Vastagu
          Is it really so hard for your mother to understand the simple truth
          - these elusive Tatars are not a nation or nationality — they are simply simply horse-drawn squads .. In any city there were guards and, when cavalry appeared, they informed about this (they locked the city gates and prepared for defense, hell knows who granted it and for what purpose. .) ..
      2. donskoy kazak
        donskoy kazak 1 June 2016 15: 34
        -1
        Tatars have always been !. V. Mitford wrote in the History of Greece: “There are places in the world whose inhabitants are very different from other people in their customs and way of life. Of these, it is worth highlighting what is called the Skete by the Greeks, and the Tatars by contemporaries. ” (Mitford W., 1838, 419). That is, he stated the obvious fact that the Tatars, Türks and Scythians, are, in essence, one and the same ethnic group, only differently named in different historical periods, in different literary traditions. That’s the whole difference between the “Turks” and the “Scythians”.
        Theophanes the Byzantine (1884th century) writes: “Meanwhile, the Scythian Attila, son of Omnoudia, a brave and proud man who removed his older brother, Vdel, took control of the Scythians, who are also called Unns, and attacked Thrace” (Theophanes the Byzantine, 81, XNUMX).
        Scythians are Huns.
        He also writes: “To the east of Tanaid live the Türks, who in ancient times were called Massagets ...” (Byzantine historians. St. Petersburg, 1861, 492).

        Procopius of Caesarea (VI century) by the Cimmerians means the Turks - Utigurs, Kutrigurs: “This very“ swamp ”flows into the Euxinus Pontus. The peoples who live there were called Cimmerians in antiquity, now they are called Utigurs. ” (Procopius of Caesarea, 1950, 384-385).

        Agathius (VI c.) Huns at the Sea of ​​Azov is also called Scythians (Agathius, 1953,148).
        Menander the Byzantine writes (VI c.) That "the Turks, who were called Saks in ancient times, sent an embassy to Justin with peaceful proposals." He identifies the Scythian language with the Turkic language: “Some people from this tribe, who were assured of as if they had the ability to drive away misfortunes, came to Zemarch, took the things that the Romans carried with them, put them together, then lit the branches of the Lebanon tree, some barbaric words whispered in the Scythian language ... ”(Byzantine historians, St. Petersburg, 1861, 375).
        In another place, Menander the Byzantine writes: "... So all the Scythians from the tribe of the so-called Türks gathered up to one hundred and six people." (ibid., 417).

        Theophylact Simocatta (1957th c.): “Expelled from his kingdom, he (Khosrov) left Kesiphon and, crossing the Tigris River, hesitated, not knowing what to do, because some advised him to go to the eastern Scythians, whom we used to call Türks, while others advised him to go to the Caucasus or Atropian mountains and save his life there. ” (Simocatta F., 106, XNUMX).

        Theophanes the Confessor (VIII century) under the name of the Scythians means the Khazars: “This year, Leo Vasileva married his son Konstantin to the daughter of Hagan, the ruler of the Scythians, converting her to Christianity and calling her Irina.” (Chichurov I.S., 1980, 68).

        And also the Russian annals, “The Tale of Bygone Years” (XII century): “When the Slavs, as we already said, lived on the Danube, came from the Scythians, i.e. from the Khazars, the so-called Bulgarians and sat down on the Danube. " (The Tale of Bygone Years, 28).

        "Strategikon", (VI c.), Book 11, chap. 3
        “Scythian tribes use, so to speak, one system and battle order ... Only Turkish and Avar tribes try to establish stronger than the rest of the Scythian tribes systems and battle formations and act in close contact in battle ...”

        A letter from the Italian Albert Campenza to Pope Clement VII, written in 1523 or 1524, says: "The Scythians, now called Tatars, are nomadic people and have been famous for their warlike character since ancient times. "

        In the middle of the sixteenth century, the Venetian ambassador Marco Foscarino, in his Report on Muscovy, describing the peoples surrounding Muscovy, noted: "To the east live the Scythians, who are now called the Tatars; you will learn about their character, like all other peoples, below."
        And further: "To the east of the Volki River, vast deserts and plains populated by the Scythians, that is, the Tatars and Amaxobii (Amaxobii), stretch."
  34. The comment was deleted.
  35. The comment was deleted.
  36. gorez.69
    gorez.69 1 June 2016 12: 47
    0
    The author forgot to add that the "unfortunate Polovtsy" had betrayed the allies of the Alans before that, flattered by the gifts of the Mongols and the promise not to touch them. So they got what they deserved.
    1. F.Vastag
      F.Vastag 1 June 2016 13: 10
      +2
      By the way, I’ll add that one of the Large Kazakh Tribes of the Middle Zhuz (in modern Kazakhstan) is called KIPCHAKI (or they are Polovtsy (as we were Russians (in Russia) they called Kipchakov), in the West they knew the ancestors of the Kazakhs under the name - KUMANS). This is the question of whose descendants (for the most part today) are the Modern Kazakhs (for me it is obvious that it was precisely those ancient Kipchaks-Polovtsy-Kuman who fought together with the united Russian army on Kalka in 1223)
      1. donskoy kazak
        donskoy kazak 1 June 2016 15: 41
        -3
        Map of Fra Mauro-1459 For some reason, the Kumans live in the northern Black Sea region! And the Kazakhs have nothing to do with the Kumans. Kalmuki they (Kazakhs)!
        1. F.Vastag
          F.Vastag 1 June 2016 15: 49
          -1
          Kumans, Kipchaks, Polovtsy is the name of the same Nomadic people (simply in the West, the Stepnyakov Polovtsy were called KUMANS, in Russia: Polovtsy, and among other nomadic tribes KIPCHAKI). The current Kalmyks (as well as the Buryats) are direct descendants of those Mongols who came directly from Mongolia to the Polovtsian steppes in the 13th century.) The Mongols (and Kalmyks) are Not Türks, but Nomads: Polovtsy-Kipchaki-Kuman (and their descendants are Kazakhs) - Türks.
  37. ver_
    ver_ 1 June 2016 14: 59
    -2
    Quote: Riv

    ..Just they didn’t storm it, they threw it with burning shells to burn everything that could burn - a plague or cholera - not the enemy with whom you can fight with iron .. Some people died from illness, some from hunger, some from arrows. .
  38. donskoy kazak
    donskoy kazak 1 June 2016 15: 48
    -2
    Quote: F. Vastag
    By the way, I’ll add that one of the Large Kazakh Tribes of the Middle Zhuz (in modern Kazakhstan) is called KIPCHAKI (or they are Polovtsy (as we were Russians (in Russia) they called Kipchakov), in the West they knew the ancestors of the Kazakhs under the name - KUMANS). This is the question of whose descendants (for the most part today) are the Modern Kazakhs (for me it is obvious that it was precisely those ancient Kipchaks-Polovtsy-Kuman who fought together with the united Russian army on Kalka in 1223)


    Another document saying that the Kazakhs and Kipchaks are completely different peoples.
  39. donskoy kazak
    donskoy kazak 1 June 2016 15: 50
    -1
    Kipchaks or Polovtsy lived between the Dnieper and Yaik.
  40. donskoy kazak
    donskoy kazak 1 June 2016 15: 56
    0
    Quote: F. Vastag
    Kumans, Kipchaks, Polovtsy is the name of the same Nomadic people (simply in the West, the Stepnyakov Polovtsy were called KUMANS, in Russia: Polovtsy, and among other nomadic tribes KIPCHAKI). The current Kalmyks (as well as the Buryats) are direct descendants of those Mongols who came directly from Mongolia to the Polovtsian steppes in the 13th century.) The Mongols (and Kalmyks) are Not Türks, but Nomads: Polovtsy-Kipchaki-Kuman (and their descendants are Kazakhs) - Türks.

    We will understand without Soviet historians who in the Middle Ages was considered Turk.
  41. donskoy kazak
    donskoy kazak 1 June 2016 15: 59
    0
    Rashid ad Din.
  42. donskoy kazak
    donskoy kazak 1 June 2016 16: 11
    -1
    This is the way of Genghis Khan to his native Yurt from Samarkand, where he found out about the Tangut uprising and where he sent his commanders Jebe and Subedey on the warped horses. Below I will give a photo of the translation from the Persian annals.
    On the map of Fra Mauro, it is clearly visible where the Goths lived on Thane (Don)
  43. donskoy kazak
    donskoy kazak 1 June 2016 16: 27
    -1
    On a satellite map, the exact route of Genghis Khan to his native yurt is still called a Yurt.
    The cities indicated in the route correspond to the chronicle order. And to what the hell did Mongolia go to crush the rebellion? To Don, in the Polovtsian capital of Landa (Zemla = Zimla = Tsimla), where Ogedei (Yaroslav Vsevolodovich) founded Karakorum. It was there that the Russian-Polovtsian troops were breaking in to rob. Where they were robbed to the fullest. Moreover, a simple trick with dates suggests that the battle was Kalke 1223 and Batu’s campaign 1238 (1238 -1223 = 15 years) are the same thing. It was revenge for the raid no more. The ambassadors said correctly: -We didn’t touch you. Neighbors, after all.
    Like now !?

    Here is the true state of things!

    IN THE TEMPORAL YEARS TALON, this is stated as follows: “... Therefore, from this time we will start with the numbers: from Adam to the flood of 2242, and from the flood to Abraham in 1082, from Abraham to the exodus of Moses, 430 years, from the exodus of Moses to David, 601 , from David and from the beginning of the reign of Solomon to the captivity of Jerusalem 448 years, from the captivity to Alexander 318 years, from Alexander to the birth of Christ 333 years ... ”. It turns out that Adam was created by God in 5454 BC. The monks have not yet come to a consensus. According to one of the chronology adopted in Orthodox countries - the Alexandrian era - the Universe was created on May 25, 5493 BC. Since the 5508th century, Russia followed the Byzantine calendar, according to which the date of the Creation of the world was somewhat different from the Alexandrian one: the world was created in 5508 BC. 5493-15 = 15 years old. The difference will be 1238 years, therefore, the transfer of the date of the Mongol campaign to Russia after recalculation, according to the Byzantine chronology adopted in Russia, should be only in 1223. or 1238. according to the Alexandrian chronology, which corresponds to reality. Accordingly, the Battle of K-L-K, i.e. "Kalka" (Kulikovo field) was in XNUMX in May, as a result of the campaign of Russia to the Don. The Tatars, (Cossacks) being in distant countries (Samarkand), having learned about the preparation of Russia for the campaign to the Don, sent ambassadors for negotiations, which (ambassadors) were killed by the Russian-Polovtsian troops. And in the winter the Tatars went to punish the Princes guilty of the murder of ambassadors, and no more. And that's a fact.
  44. donskoy kazak
    donskoy kazak 1 June 2016 16: 31
    -1
    Date of death of Vsevolod III "Big nest" * 1212 Date of death of Genghis Khan 1227. which corresponds to a difference of 15 years. Date of death of Georgy Dolgoruky, father of Vsevolod III 1157. The date of death of Esugey Bahadur, Genghis Khan's father 1172. 1172-1157 = 15 years or vice versa 1157 + 15 = 1172. All the same 15 years.
    * "Tarta" - in the Pra-Türkic language - wind, pave a nest, Mogul Tarta = Big nest
    Vsevolod - The Big Nest (Mogul tarta) was called Dmitry (Demurchi). Conclusion: -the battle was one in 1223. according to the Alexandrian calendar, or in 1238. Byzantine. Since the time of Vladimir, Kievan Rus used the Byzantine era from the creation of Adam, which was conducted "from the creation of the world." For almost 500 years, the beginning of the year in Russia, as in Byzantium, was considered March 1 (Berezen). In 7000 (1492), a serious millennium came, it hit our world as much as 7000 years from the "creation of the world." Grand Duke John III firmly recommended that Moscow Cathedral consider the beginning of the year September 1. For the sake of brevity, the documents were omitted for thousands of years, and only the last digits were recorded. So, the 161st year indicated in the document should be considered as 7161. Subtracting 5508, we get 1653. However, it should be noted that the year before the Petrine reform began on September 1, therefore, in the interval from January 1 to August 31, the difference with the chronology “from the Nativity of Christ” is 5508 years, and for dates from September 1 to December 31, the difference is already 5509 years.
  45. donskoy kazak
    donskoy kazak 1 June 2016 16: 34
    0
    And the battle was here! On KLKK Kalk or Kulikovo field.
  46. donskoy kazak
    donskoy kazak 1 June 2016 21: 17
    -1
    Back to Genghis Khan, i.e. to his pedigree. He is Yaphetid. The red-haired blue-eyed Europeid.
    He believes in Jesus Christ and spreads his commandments.

    TA'RIKH MUKHTASAR AD-DUVAL
    The first dynasty: belonged to the holy prophets before entering the promised land. Said the one who knows the messages about the peoples and the research on the customs of the tribes, that in the past centuries there were seven ancestral peoples:
    - Persians;
    - Chaldeans;
    - Greeks;
    - Copts;
    - Türks;
    al-hind;
    - as-syn. Subsequently, each of these peoples was divided into [several] peoples; tongues multiplied, and separated from one another religion. All of them were apostates who worshiped idols, like gems and celestial bodies.
    But these peoples, for all the multiplicity of their divisions and the difference in their beliefs, make up two groups. One took care of the sciences, like the Chaldeans, Persians and others, about whom the story will follow in its place. The [other] group did not care about this - such as residents of al-Sina, Turks, Slavs, Berbers, al-habash and those associated with them ... And as for the rest of this group, which did not indulge in science, they are more like animals than people ... And for one of them, who is near the equator and behind him - in the direction of the populated area in the south, because of the prolonged proximity of the sun to their heads, their temperaments became hot, their complexion is scorched , their color turned black, their hair curled. And at the same time, they lost their patience and constancy of views - just as [it happened] with al-habash and with the rest of the blacks, except al-hind ... To the children Sima the center of the populated part of the earth moved away: Palestine, Syria, Ashur, Sumer, Babil, Fars and Hijaz. For children Hama got the entire right edge, that is, the south: Ifrikiya, az-zinj, Egypt, an-noba, al-habasha, al-Sind and al-Hind. And to the children Japheth the left side departed, i.e., the north: al-Andalus, al-Ifranja, the countries of the Greeks, Slavs, Bulgars, Turks and Armenians ...
  47. donskoy kazak
    donskoy kazak 1 June 2016 21: 19
    -1
    ABDURRAKHMAN-I TALI`
    HISTORY OF ABOULFEYZ KHAN
    [BEGINNING OF HISTORY OF ABOULFEYZ KHAN]
    / 1 a / ... We mention the fathers and grandfathers of His Majesty to Adam, a sincere friend of [Allah] - may peace be upon him! The father of victory and [himself] the victorious Abulfeiz Bahadur Khan, the son of Subhan Kuli Khan, the son of Nadir Muhammad Khan, the son of Dean Muhammad Khan 1, the son of Jani Khan, the son of Yar Muhammed Khan, the son of Baglyshdad Khan, the son of Juvak Muhammed Khan, son of Ahmed Khan, son of Kutluk Timur Khan, son of Tukai Timur Khan, son of Oz Timur Khan, son of Kutluk Timur Sultan, son of Timur Kutluk Khan, son of Oz Timur Khan, son of Tukai Timur Khan, son of Jochi Khan, son of Genghis Khan, son of Baysuk Bahadur, son of Partan Bahadur, son of Kubil Khoja Khan, son of Tumin Khan, son of Kaydul Khan, son of Baysungur Khan, son of Kaydu Khan, son of Tumin Khan, son Buka Khan, son of Buzanjir Khan, son of Alankuva, former contemporary of Abu Muslim, Mervts.
    Alankuva [same] - daughter of Juin Bahadur, son of Buk Bahadur, son of Tuyug Bahadur, son of Tinigiz Bahadur, son of Jalm Bahadur, son of Targu Bahadur, son of Nakuz Bahadur, son of Suyunj Bahadur, son of Mengli Bahadur, son of Yulduz Bahad, son of Yulduz Bahad Dzhuk Bahadur, son of Dabaiku Khan, son of Kuk Khan, son of Gur Khan, son of Bupai Khan, son of Azur Khan, son of Jamun Khan, son of Uguz Ata Khan, who was a contemporary of Feridun and Zakhkhak, Uguz Khan - the son of Kara Khan, the son of Baidu Khan, the son of Urdu Khan, the son of Mogul Khan, the son of Atsyz Khan, the son of Ilj Khan, the son of Turk, the son of Yaphet, the son of Noah - may peace be upon him! His Holiest Noah ascends through five generations to Adam, a sincere friend of [Allah]. Such is the calculus of the names of the ancestors of his majesty the sovereign [Abulfayz Khan].
    After this, God willing, let us proceed to the main goal [of our story].
    Batu Khan, like his grandfather Genghis Khan - a descendant of Japheth, (European), therefore, can not be a Mongol (Mongolia).
  48. ver_
    ver_ 2 June 2016 15: 54
    +1
    Story in a lie

    85 years ago, Lenin signed the Decree on the creation of the Tatar Autonomous Soviet Socialist Republic. Soviet propaganda claimed that the Communists restored Tatar statehood, destroyed by greedy feudal lords - exploiters. In fact, it was an act of genocide of the Volga Bulgarians - the first legitimate launch of the repressive machine of the Soviet regime at full capacity.
    Thus, there were neither Mongols nor Tatars in terms of national formations until 1920 .. There were Tatars = Khazars = Cossacks - equestrian soldiers ...
    Particularly gifted and nationals with megalomania - continue to minus .. All conflicts of the past are self-owners - between princes ...
    1. donskoy kazak
      donskoy kazak 2 June 2016 20: 54
      -4
      Do not know the origin of the word FAMILY? Once all the Tatars were exterminated, only seven survived. Here of these seven people were restored. This people in the annals of Rashid-ad-Din is called the Tatars.
      And the fact that the Volga Bulgars were called Tatars is not scary. There was a huge state of Tartary and all its inhabitants were called Tatars. As now the inhabitants of Russia are Russians.
  49. andrew42
    andrew42 2 June 2016 17: 15
    +1
    The article is touching Karamzin. From the first lines amused: "The squad of Prince Yuri Vsevolodovich Vladimirsky for the Kiev collection did not ripen." even Karamzin would have gasped. And were the people of Suzdal even called? And the author in general, that since the time of Yuri Dolgoruky, the Suzdal branch could not stand the Kiev branch? and Volyntsi too, as a competitive force in the fight for Kiev. Remind how Andrey Bogolyubsky took Kiev? No, it's a murky story about Calca. And in general about the "Mongols" the story is muddy. Yes, you will already rise above the forest, in the end !! Well, here came some "Mongols" numbering 20 thousand in the interfluve of the Volga and Don. In front of them, hundreds of miles in depth, stand the towers of the OWNERS of the steppes of that time - the Polovtsians. Behind the aliens is Alania, allegedly broken, but unconquered and rebellious. For the Polovtsians, there are foot city troops and heavily armed equestrian squads of Russians who have become skilled in the steppe wars since the days of the Monomakh campaigns. Yes, there are still a lot of nuances against the corps (!), Which does not have any bases, in a deep hostile environment. And 20 thousand newcomers are so "Genius", and such "lucky" that they overturn all THIS, "fly" like demons across the Bulgarians, and then, together with the rearguard that approached, they twist through Zalesskaya Rus in WINTER like at home. I swear to God, they have already done it with their "Mongols". Monastic chronicles need to be read less. There, for each princeling fit of facts. There were no "Mongols". And Fomenko-Nosovsky has nothing to do with it. Under certain circumstances, the Troubles could also be presented as a "Mongol invasion", where the glorious armies of False Dmitry and Poles with European mercenaries restrained the aggression of the "wild east", and Minin played the role of Ploskini.
  50. ver_
    ver_ 3 June 2016 04: 29
    0
    Tartaria-territory. Lesser Tartaria - Ukraine, White Tartaria-Belarus, Moscow Tartaria - Muscovy, Great Tobolsk Tartaria - Siberian Kingdom, there were other Tartaria - Pegaya Tartaria .. Tartaria is not a nationality or a nation. Tatars-cavalry, this is not a nationality .. This is a kind of army-cavalry ...
    Particularly gifted - minus further - besides this, you don’t know how to hell - neither mind nor imagination ..
    1. donskoy kazak
      donskoy kazak 3 June 2016 07: 04
      -1
      An Empire Called "Territory" And The Genealogy Of The Creators Of Tartary.
      I repeat.
      Tarta = twist, bridge the nest.
      Mughal Tarta = Grand Tarta = BIG NEST.
      1. donskoy kazak
        donskoy kazak 3 June 2016 07: 10
        0
        In 1223, the Russian princes apparently gathered on foot to march on the Tatars. This Kiev was going to Tartaria to Kalka, and not vice versa.
      2. donskoy kazak
        donskoy kazak 3 June 2016 07: 15
        +1
        Some equestrian warriors love other equestrian warriors and even write with a capital letter.
      3. donskoy kazak
        donskoy kazak 3 June 2016 11: 00
        -1
        Dmitry (Demurchi) in baptism Vsevolod "Big Nest" (Mogol Tarta) held the position of (Chin) Grand Duke, which in Turkic will be like Genghis Khan.
    2. The comment was deleted.