Military Review

The Pentagon has initiated the development of analog GPS

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The Agency for Advanced Development of the US Department of Defense announced the beginning of the development of an “alternative positioning system and time correction”, which will be used in the event of a satellite navigation system failure. Flotprom.


The Pentagon has initiated the development of analog GPS
United States Naval Station Worldwide Range

“The new program is called STOIC. Within the project, it is planned to develop several types of devices that will locate by triangulation using signals from communication stations with submarines. Such stations operating in the frequency range (3-30 kilohertz with a wavelength of from ten to one hundred kilometers) are used by the US Navy, ”writes with reference to the N + 1 edition.

The location of the Navy communication stations is known with high accuracy. It is noted that "thanks to the ability of very low superlong waves to penetrate into salt water to a depth of up to 40 meters, they are used to transmit synchronizing signals and coded information."

According to the information, “in prospective positioning systems, the location of the equipment will be determined on the basis of data obtained by the triangulation method and information of inertial navigation systems”.

New equipment is planned to be used on ships, cars and aircraft.

According to the developers, the first tests of devices can be expected in 2018-2019. The prototype was promised to show this year.
Photos used:
Noelle Keyser / wikipedia.org
44 comments
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  1. John_f
    John_f 24 May 2016 15: 38
    0
    Is this in response to our work in the direction of EW?
    1. Nevsky_ZU
      Nevsky_ZU 24 May 2016 15: 42
      +2
      Quote: John_f
      Is this in response to our work in the direction of EW?


      And unless our EW interference can not create:
      Such stations operating in the frequency range (3-30 kilohertz with a wavelength of from ten to one hundred kilometers)

      It's amazing that they delayed this for so long. Probably thought that the 90s will be eternal. And they will be the only ones to have Gods from Heaven technology. As I recall American films of the late 90s and early XNUMXs, they have GPS everywhere, almost the main character, they will track everyone and give coordinates, even sometimes not by function. wassat
      1. John_f
        John_f 24 May 2016 15: 54
        0
        I think after the 90s they relaxed a lot and missed the "flash" ... of course GPS systems are already obsolete (if not outdated) so they are looking for something new - an alternative, so to speak.
        1. cniza
          cniza 24 May 2016 16: 20
          +5
          According to the developers, the first tests of devices can be expected in 2018-2019. The prototype was promised to show this year.


          And what we have from this area, enlighten specialists.
          1. just exp
            just exp 24 May 2016 18: 10
            +1
            even if the specialists enlighten at the expense of 3 kHz, it’s kind of a sound range, what a person hears - I don’t remember something so that the sound would spread over thousands of kilometers.
            1. abrakadabre
              abrakadabre 24 May 2016 19: 49
              0
              What is there to educate? Frequency - yes, sound range. Only sound is a wave of vibrations in the air. Think atoms are pushing. And the article talks about the radio wave.
              1. just exp
                just exp 24 May 2016 21: 36
                -2
                and what's the difference if there is a wave there and there? only the source is different. the speaker can also say radio waves then.
                1. cucujamba
                  cucujamba 24 May 2016 22: 24
                  0
                  learn materiel crying
              2. cucujamba
                cucujamba 24 May 2016 22: 22
                0
                Yes, while the signal will come from submarines, and no one has canceled sonar repeat and the boat gives itself away and becomes a target recourse
          2. Aryan
            Aryan 24 May 2016 20: 10
            0
            well, for example, at the right moment you can "make the Earth flat" - a second will be enough
            and then all this "trigeration" falls into the mare's crack
            (satellite signal distortion)
        2. Dam
          Dam 24 May 2016 16: 56
          +2
          For every tricky nut, there is a bolt with a left-hand thread
          1. cucujamba
            cucujamba 24 May 2016 22: 26
            0
            and a bag of unnecessary nuts laughing fellow
    2. Lt. Air Force stock
      Lt. Air Force stock 24 May 2016 15: 45
      +7
      Quote: John_f
      Is this in response to our work in the direction of EW?

      Rather, anti-satellite missiles that can destroy GPS satellites.
      1. John_f
        John_f 24 May 2016 15: 52
        -3
        Today there are quite a few satellites over our heads and I think it's very expensive to track everything ... I also thought about missiles, but all the same, I tend to use electronic warfare more to "blind" certain areas (parts) of our small planet)
      2. Skifotavr
        Skifotavr 24 May 2016 16: 00
        +1
        Quote: Lt. Air Force stock
        Quote: John_f
        Is this in response to our work in the direction of EW?

        Rather, anti-satellite missiles that can destroy GPS satellites.

        I would say both. And in general, from a military point of view, satellite navigation is very vulnerable and in the future it is possible that superpowers will use it mainly only in the civilian sector.
        1. Lt. Air Force stock
          Lt. Air Force stock 24 May 2016 16: 11
          +3
          Quote: Skifotavr
          I would say both. And in general, from a military point of view, satellite navigation is very vulnerable and in the future it is possible that superpowers will use it mainly only in the civilian sector.

          The best noise-immunity method of guidance is inertial, but it is not the most accurate, the error is hundreds of meters. It is not suitable for precision weapons.
          I wonder if it is technically possible to make an inertial system as accurate as a satellite (1-2 meter deviation)?
          1. mav1971
            mav1971 24 May 2016 22: 38
            0
            Quote: Lt. Air Force stock

            I wonder if it is technically possible to make an inertial system as accurate as a satellite (1-2 meter deviation)?


            Yes. As they understand the real mechanism of orientation of birds, animals, insects, they will.

            Combining a terrain map (of various types), magnetic fields, and other characteristics may already give a good result.
            1. The comment was deleted.
            2. Skifotavr
              Skifotavr 24 May 2016 23: 03
              0
              Quote: mav1971
              Yes. As they understand the real mechanism of orientation of birds, animals, insects, they will.

              The animal’s orientation mechanism, which includes birds and insects by the way, has long been known: these are the magnetic poles of the earth, smells (including the use of aromatic marks), sounds, the sun, etc. Moreover, even a person has an extremely underdeveloped special organ in his head, called by scientists a biocompass. But unlike for example birds, it is reduced in our country and we usually don’t feel it. Although during the experiments it was proved that he sometimes helps some. But for a truly high-precision weapon, all this is not suitable. smile
              1. mav1971
                mav1971 25 May 2016 00: 24
                0
                Quote: Skifotavr
                Quote: mav1971
                Yes. As they understand the real mechanism of orientation of birds, animals, insects, they will.

                The orientation mechanism of animals, which incidentally includes birds and insects, has long been known: these are the magnetic poles of the earth, smells (including the use of aromatic labels), sounds, the sun, etc. Moreover, even a person has an extremely underdeveloped special organ in his head, called by scientists a biocompass.


                not known.
                These are guesses without understanding and realizing real brain activity algorithms in metal.

                Analogy.
                We walk, run. we jump on the Earth.
                We seem to understand how and why.

                But we still cannot implement this on 100%.
                Attempts to teach "iron blocks" to walk, maintain balance, run, on level or rough terrain, are just starting with variable success.
                This is what I call understanding. Only then. when we can realize in metal.

                The same thing with navigation in the image and concept of animals.
                1. Skifotavr
                  Skifotavr 31 May 2016 14: 44
                  0
                  Quote: mav1971
                  Quote: Skifotavr
                  Quote: mav1971
                  Yes. As they understand the real mechanism of orientation of birds, animals, insects, they will.

                  The orientation mechanism of animals, which incidentally includes birds and insects, has long been known: these are the magnetic poles of the earth, smells (including the use of aromatic labels), sounds, the sun, etc. Moreover, even a person has an extremely underdeveloped special organ in his head, called by scientists a biocompass.


                  not known.
                  These are guesses without understanding and realizing real brain activity algorithms in metal.

                  Analogy.
                  We walk, run. we jump on the Earth.
                  We seem to understand how and why.

                  But we still cannot implement this on 100%.
                  Attempts to teach "iron blocks" to walk, maintain balance, run, on level or rough terrain, are just starting with variable success.
                  This is what I call understanding. Only then. when we can realize in metal.

                  The same thing with navigation in the image and concept of animals.

                  Sorry, but you’ve mixed up different things. What does the coordination of movements and the maintenance of balance and the exact orientation of animals have to do with it? Yes, and high-precision weapons? In addition, the last humanoid or animal-like robots walk and run no worse than people, they are even pushed - and they do not fall if that. YouTube to help you. And the algorithms of brain activity are already quite completely studied, devices are already being created all over the world that read electromagnetic pulses of the human brain and allow you to control the power of thought, for example, with a drone (including in Russia). My advice to you: do not write about what you do not understand. For example, it happened to me, my strengths are just biology and aviation, as well as a bit of electronics.
          2. Skifotavr
            Skifotavr 24 May 2016 22: 46
            0
            Quote: Lt. Air Force stock
            I wonder if it is technically possible to make an inertial system as accurate as a satellite (1-2 meter deviation)?

            Who knows ... Now a lot has become commonplace that was previously considered impossible. The improvement of inertial systems continues. But do not forget that modern relatively inaccurate inertial systems are very expensive. Although progress sometimes goes in the direction of cheaper technologies.
    3. NEXUS
      NEXUS 24 May 2016 16: 00
      +1
      Quote: John_f
      Is this in response to our work in the direction of EW?

      Rather, the answer to our Glonass is first of all. Yes, and I believe the accuracy of determining the location should be higher than that of all existing systems. But here's what will come of it.
      1. mav1971
        mav1971 24 May 2016 22: 45
        +1
        Quote: NEXUS
        Quote: John_f
        Is this in response to our work in the direction of EW?

        Rather, the answer to our Glonass is first of all. Yes, and I believe the accuracy of determining the location should be higher than that of all existing systems. But here's what will come of it.


        Our Glonass is generally the answer to their Navstar (GPS) ... :)

        And what they are doing now is the continuation of the development of the theme of the old LORAN system.

        Or have people already forgotten that navigation existed before satellite systems? :)
    4. itvs
      itvs 25 May 2016 13: 58
      0
      Yes, but basically as a parry threat of destruction of the GPS orbital constellation by anti-satellite systems. Falcon Echelon - seen as an extremely efficient system
  2. Nevsky_ZU
    Nevsky_ZU 24 May 2016 15: 39
    +5
    And I thought the Americans until the end of time would rely on the ZhPS as a holy cow ... Oh, I don’t like their gestures in this direction. what
    1. Yuri Y.
      Yuri Y. 24 May 2016 20: 12
      0
      I agree. There are even ways against the ZHPS (as you put it), and our satellites also make incomprehensible maneuvers (to them). But maybe ground stations will be counterbalanced corny, something like "Caliber". Also a pancake on the satellite.
  3. gregor6549
    gregor6549 24 May 2016 15: 39
    +10
    Not an analogue of GPS, but its alternatives to increase the combat stability of the navigation system. Feel the difference.
  4. The comment was deleted.
  5. Lumumba
    Lumumba 24 May 2016 16: 09
    +3
    It is interesting that we are talking about a non-cosmic positioning system (triangulation, inertial navigation). What is it for? Really they did not have this before? Is money laundering? Are you afraid that satellites will shoot down? No money for new satellites or optimization of existing technology?

    It is very similar to preparing for a nuclear war, in which the space defense elements, for example, ionospheric nuclear explosions, will be the first to be put out of action.
    1. masiya
      masiya 24 May 2016 16: 20
      0
      This is most likely true, you have to keep your ear to the eye and keep an eye on the "partners" in this direction.
    2. alean245
      alean245 24 May 2016 16: 39
      +2
      It is interesting that we are talking about a non-cosmic positioning system (triangulation, inertial navigation). What is it for? Really they did not have this before?

      It was a LORAN system, for example. Just did not hear that someone had developed a global navigation system of this class.
      Are you afraid that satellites will shoot down?

      Yes, it seems. It is only doubtful that the developed navigation system will be able to replace GPS completely, especially when it comes to pointing high-precision munitions.
    3. cucujamba
      cucujamba 24 May 2016 22: 30
      0
      What surprised you? For you, the news is that everyone is preparing for a nuclear war?
    4. cucujamba
      cucujamba 24 May 2016 22: 34
      0
      To disable the cosmic grouping, you don't need any "ionospheric explosions", you silly one. a container with scrap metal blown up in orbit is enough, and then the "scraps" of this will smash everything that is in orbit
  6. russmensch
    russmensch 24 May 2016 16: 44
    +6
    When I served everything was simple and yet surprisingly accurate. There was then neither GPS nor GLONASS, and in fact the coordinates were determined with high accuracy. Suffice it to say that the firing positions with an error of more than 5 meters were estimated at 4, an error of more than 10 - 3. And there were only maps, on the OP compass, on the NP range finder with compass, binoculars, a compass and a pencil. Likely it was a long time by modern standards, I will not argue. Occupation of fire (NP) with the deployment of systems and devices with the calculation of coordinates according to the standards of that time was 14 minutes on any terrain, at any time of the day. For us at that time it was normal and no questions arose. Arise today - turn off space communications systems and stuff - can they work the old fashioned way? Or no longer teach this? And about the Amer’s alternative - to hell with it. The more complex the technique, the greater the chance of its failure for various reasons. Including when using electronic warfare systems. I had to work on the exercises with the electronic warfare turned on. And nothing, they managed ... the old fashioned way, where the flags, where the voice and it turned out not bad.
    1. alstr
      alstr 24 May 2016 16: 50
      +1
      Teach, but not for long. I remember at the military department we tied s-300 (once for all the time). The result - tied to an accuracy of 180 degrees)))). Now I think no better.
      1. cucujamba
        cucujamba 24 May 2016 22: 37
        0
        We had to learn better laughing And as far as I remember, the military department never taught the full 100, so primary skills
  7. Zaurbek
    Zaurbek 24 May 2016 16: 51
    0
    10 years ago I read an article about the navigation of the Mi-28 and Ka-50 based on the physical fields of the earth. Whoever clarifies ..?
  8. ingener1966
    ingener1966 24 May 2016 17: 02
    +3
    We also have such stations, there are only 3, 2 in Russia, one in Belarus, and indeed their place is precisely defined, work on them began in the 50s on the basis of those exported from Germany. The Germans in the 42nd year had a connection with submarines in the Atlantic. the Americans dealt with this issue in the 80s, when it all worked for us. Photo of one of which I happened to work on. I don’t think that ours didn’t deal with this issue because the signals are sent encoded.
  9. Black Colonel
    Black Colonel 24 May 2016 17: 06
    +1
    "... using signals from submarine communications stations. Such stations operating in the myriameter frequency range (3-30 kilohertz with a wavelength of ten to one hundred kilometers) are used by the US Navy."
    But what prevents these very stations from being brought to a state of scrap metal?
  10. Ajent cho
    Ajent cho 24 May 2016 17: 23
    0
    It is more like a cell phone. But after all, such a system is much easier to disable ...
  11. Alexander_
    Alexander_ 24 May 2016 17: 28
    +1
    We also have such antenna glades.
  12. made13
    made13 24 May 2016 17: 53
    0
    So what kind of antennas are under Simferopol ...
  13. Tusv
    Tusv 24 May 2016 18: 34
    0
    Time correction? Daz look fancy. We don’t know how, what a shame
  14. VladimS
    VladimS 24 May 2016 20: 19
    0
    Noticeably sawing money! They are already bored, they are waiting ... wink
    1. cucujamba
      cucujamba 24 May 2016 22: 42
      +1
      They will cut on a grand scale! Proudly! Money for what has existed for a hundred years already has been working, but PEZDNAGON does not know about this type, but is ready to pay fellow