Military Review

In defense of the pasta monster Ilona Mask put in a word. Part of 2

208



The first part of the blunders' analysis by the writer-mechanic-graduated engineer Dmitry Konanykhin

Let me remind you - this product is prepared:"Pasta Monster Ilona Mask, or the logical outcome of the adventure"

Continued ...

Quote: Author
And here comes His awesome Majesty - Railway Envelope. You cannot change bridges, crossings, contact lines along the entire length of the route from the factory to the launch complex, so you must enter the design in the maximum size of the 3.7 meter.

Oh. Come on? Dimych, have you been to America? Transportation of oversized at least seen on TV?

- This is how SpaceX Falcon 9 (04-19-2016) is transported

- SpaceX headquarters is located in the suburb of Hawthorne, California, USA.
The large plant that was previously used to build the Boeing 747 fuselage now houses the main office, the MCC and the SpaceX rocket plant.
Starting locations:
SLC-4E- base Vandenberg WBC USA, California.
Launch Pad 39A at ​​NASA's Kennedy Space Center in Florida within the Kennedy Space Center, on Merritt Island, Florida.
South Texas SpaceX SpaceX, Texas, on the coast of the Gulf of Mexico.


Writer, on Google you will find the coordinates, the length of the path, the "railway", well, etc. Interestingly everything goes.

For your information:
1) ADD US - all roads must have a concrete divider or be no closer than 10 meters to each other, having a green strip between the roads. Thus, frontal collisions were excluded.
- The minimum width of the left shoulder is 1 meter, the right one is 3 meters, the width of the bands is 3.67 meters.
- The maximum angle of ascent or descent is 6% (by calculation, 1 ft of ascent 100 ft of road length = 1%), this rule is introduced in parallel with the maximum load for trucks 36 tons, providing a safer departure from the hills.
Within cities - the maximum lifting angle is 5%.


2) Dimension 3,7 meter for air transportation - ugh! (In the US, the 14000 WFPFOURTEEN THOUSANDS, and we ... we have about 300-THREE," feel the difference".)
3) The United States has the most convenient geographical location (two oceans, rivers, lakes, SC on the beach) - water transport, there is generally envelope on the drum.

Quote: Author
THREE WHOLE SEVEN TENTH faknashit meter. That's all you can. Do you understand? You, the lord of the United States, who has put everyone in cancer, are forced to reckon with the railway envelope.

"Fakinshit" ... stupid Americans "fakinshit", they are so stupid that they do not even know about the magical Dimkin 3,7 meters ...
What is this? I do not believe my eyes!

In defense of the pasta monster Ilona Mask put in a word. Part of 2

Diameter 8.38 m, by the way.

On the left is a barge for transporting an external fuel tank, the Space Shuttle, in the center is the transportation from the pier to the vertical assembly building, on the right is the Delta Mariner transport carrying the stages Delta-IV and Atlas-V.


Americans could carry (and drove) the Saturn-V steps with a diameter of 10,1 m.
Again, the writer could not even write a line, not a lie. What are you, a liar such, Dimon, eh?
Nothing that I'm on "you"? No offense, frets?

And here we have with the dimension "opa", full of which:
- we have railway, I will keep silence about our roads (as well as about fools);
- there is no water transport (there is no way to the place of destination);
- all main plants are in the European part of Russia. And if to Plesetsk “hand in hand” (Murmanka, Railways), then Baikonur, and, especially, “Vostochny” is a disaster. Logistics. Coupled with the breadth of the launch, in the end we will lose to the Americans, the Chinese and the Europeans at a cost of 1 kg of PN for NOU, despite the collapse of the ruble and our cheap oil.

In general, what to say, it is better to show:



Already on the Angara wagons with a diameter of 2,9, the oversize index is clearly visible - it is almost marginal in width (5 from 6)

4) About the 3,7 meter ...
In terms of geometry, the maximum volume at a fixed area is achieved for the ball. Both the aerodynamic drag and the full surface of the cylinder are proportional to the square of the radius, so the rockets would have to be rather low and wide. However, in reality, the rockets are very thin and high. The fact is that increasing the diameter increases the complexity of manufacturing and transporting the stage.

Data on missile launches over the past twenty years - a graph of the number of launches, depending on the largest diameter of the stage (widest tank).

Maybe someone will be interested in this tsifir

The days when money was poured into space a lot, and it was possible to build such an engineering-beautiful Saturn-V, alas, passed. Now all over the world there is a fashion for “flying fences” from universal modules that should be comfortable and cheap. And Ilona, ​​with his budget of $ 50-65 million for start-up, needs to be saved always and everywhere. Competition! Others also have hairy paws that want to get into NASA's "trillion-dollar" budgets and "nag":



Quote: Author
(raise the meter, it is ugly lying in a swoon) - 70 (in words - SEVENTY) meters.

Let's try! How many kilograms of weight in this "raskaznitsa"? If something in my spine is broken, as it were, again on the disability does not fly away!
FT: 70 m (it is not yet)
v1.1: 68,4 m
v1.0: 54,9 m (it is already gone)
So what? What is the relation (70 m) to the first stage (its length is about 40-43 meters - I take it by eye)? What do they return? PH entirely (together with MON fool) or the first stage of PH?

Quote: Author
The worst thing is that you need to ensure the stability of this “macaroni” on a platform in the ocean (who said - the waves ?!) - columns, 70 meters in height,

On the macaroni platform, not 70 meters and not even 68,4 meters, but only 43s.
How to ensure its stability - see above video landing. Has landed, does not fall at a sufficiently brisk transportation on the "raft".

Quote: Author
You, quite by chance, get the technology of supercooling of kerosene and oxygen from wide-legged pants.

What? From wide-leg trousers we got a passport - as far as I remember.

The technology of supercooling of liquid oxygen was mastered here at the end of 1959, by the team of the OKB VL Shabran. They have before. It (technology) is used by all where LONGLY stored LOX is required in a filled PH: supercooling is carried out by evaporation of a part of oxygen followed by drainage into the medium. Only this is not to pour more into the tank. This is for long-term storage of combat missiles at the launch position. The PH "Energy" LOX overcooling was not used if anyone is interested. And on the video of the Falcona launch, I did not find either “hypothermia” or the corresponding starting equipment at the joint venture. And it (the equipment) is terribly expensive and large.

As with the "supercooling of kerosene" - I have not met. Do you need it? In the sense that if we freeze kerosene (liquid phase at 20grs), its density is not like O2 gas: 1,42897 kg/м³ against liquid: 1,141 г/cm³. What will it give? 30 liters (kidding 300) kerosene? Even consider laziness.

Quote: Author
And here is your engineering bastard, the size of a heavy-class rocket, clamped by a railway gauge,

fool "Bauman" Mlyn ... "Rocket College" ... a shame.

- Dima, you are angry, you are gnawing at envy or an inferiority complex!
How to correlate the "bastard" with
Quote: Dmitry Konanykhin about himself
Author several sturdy "Soviet" novels - about war and love, about the meaning of life and meaning stories - about our country, which was, is and will be
?

- Great Soviet Encyclopedia, open it. "Classification of launch vehicles by the mass of the output payload on the LEO ":
easy to 5 t;
average from 5 to 20 t;
heavy from 20 to 100 tons;
super heavyweight over xnumx t.

About the size of no gu-gu. On the "pasta" in the TSB is also silent. It is understandable - they did not write suckers. Has he shoved another jamb unusual for a mechanical engineer (normal)? It happens...

I will explain: Traditionally it turned out that the Americans take their own RN from the assembly building (they collect "macaroni" there) to the UK (SP) VERTICAL, we carry HORIZONTAL (and raise). A no-brainer, it will be difficult (and expensive) to raise the "macaroni" without breaking it.
Therefore, their RN is higher and thinner, ours are lower and "in the body."




What is better here - I will not judge.

Quote: Author
She falls once, she falls two - but here's the landing !!! You managed not to drop the "macaroni"! You have the best programmers on the planet.

Well, not dropped the same. In general, this is Konanikhin’s tendency to crap other people's labors / attempts!

Dmitriy! And what have you done for your country (as a "mechanical engineer") or for yourself / for home / for a family (except for "a pair of good-quality novels")?
Repaired leaking toilet bowl? Brought a Christmas tree ... on May 9? You can enlighten me. Then let's talk.

About the "dude" the whole world knows:

Ilon Rivs Musk-Konstruktor Success

Steeper Jobs. How Ilon Musk became the main visionary of the planet.

I wrote a couple of "little books". Sorry - did not read, I will not judge. Shl. I have nothing to read. By 7, I read junk before the holes:
The Fourth Protocol, Airframe, Prey, Lukyanenko (lazy, writes little), The War of Exaltation and other technicals:


/ which, besides me, is not interesting to anyone /

Send a present, eh? I will be grateful.
Quote: Author
cancer who supplied hundreds of thousands of specialists - from fucking engineer to four star generals

Could not resist, highlighted in bold. Such a slogan "good author". Perfect.

I am afraid that only one “good writer” was put up with cancer, who is also a “fucking” engineer. Otherwise, why would such a kipish?

Quote: Author
You need to wait until the end of the presidential term of that too dark guy with a tired look, not to get a bullet, not to fall out of the window, not to choke on the olive oil and, God forbid, not to rape the maid.

Mmm ... I don't have a medical education, it's difficult for me to make a diagnosis. If such a thing were given "in Ukraine" to a tsenzor.Net - I would immediately say: Kakla-ryagul I again smoked / drank a can with a Maidan. But this is ours! How to be advise?

And more about "dancing on the bones." I remember:
1.) How many tormented PH "Angara"? Since what year? When did you fly? How many times? Who "tormented"? Answer: A country that is not the last on this planet, I want to note. The budget ... Of course, the Roscosmos is not at NASA, but Ilona does not compare with attachments.
2.) Incorrect, yes, and this is my country, but please pay attention to the statistics of emergency launches of our PH. "Proton" in particular. And not even on the number of emergency launches, but on the causes thereof.
3.) And why were we, the heirs of the USSR, inventing such particular, in such a way that the first in the history of the Earth would spread gnome so that the satellites would fly into space and swing to Mars?
They (fuckers American) all puffed up, make a fool of everyone.







I know what they are in tune - the trillions of NASA do not give sleep. Sawing is like Pavlov's dog reflex.

Quote: Author
Oh fucking shit ...

Yes, Mityai, yes. The way it is. "Glory Ukraine"... Oh, I didn’t want to write at all. We must be patriotic -" Glory to Russia ". We hid it (" our ")). Absolutely. Dimasik tried, he managed to catch it in time.



Satellite launches (spacecraft) in 2015 year
All launches are shown in UTC. Last 21.12.2015 Refinement

Launch Manifest | Spacex

I suggest to readers - spend time on this vukoponos:
The biggest secret of the Soviet rocket technology

Replace the author in the Ukrainian - Dima Konanykhin, us, "Vatnikov", on the Americans, and you will understand why I spent 4 hours of personal time. And think about the "article" Dima about the "pasta".

Note: to my little letter / question to this author (Europeitsu) of this opus "But what about the great Ukrainian Kovalev from Zhytomyr, the museum, like quilted jackets, which can not do anything without the" great "ones ..." The answer did not follow. Sadness

Afterword:
Honestly, I myself initially did not understand why Ilon took this path (return and landing of the first stage on the remote control). I wrote an article about this on TopWar (it wasn’t published, it’s probably not published), I also wrote to SpaceX (they didn’t answer me - probably my Anglicus non-Ice). Any engineer will say that not using the atmosphere for free (what is “under the feet” for nothing) is a joint, stupidity (here you are not the Moon, as they say). We do not have Mars. Parachute, rotor, wing landing systems with subsequent braking impulse control before landing will solve many problems.

Something like this:


A parachute made from modern materials is much lighter than fuel reserves, it is not a pity, speed can be extinguished, just as the speed of descending spacecraft is being extinguished.

Then it came (I am tall - it comes a long time, like a giraffe):
- Ilon is limited in the landing corridor steps. I do not know if the license either pays for miles, or for environmental damage (to the ocean), or you have to pay for closing off the water area for shipping (plop on the ship, and then shipping is dense, you will go bankrupt on the suits). And, of course, with a parachute not to get on the platform.
- Logistics, be it not okay. Drive for 100 miles or drive for 1000 miles, but you still need to find it ... in the vast ocean. Again, money, and a lot.

As an example - "our" zones of falling steps:


- At the conference at MIT (if you carefully watch the video above), he let it slip that he wanted to immediately work out the technology of landing on Mars, on the Falcon-9. Shampoo 2-1 (kill 2-x rabbits), climb on the tree and not scratch.

Something like that. Thank you all who could read to the end. For mistakes and style - I apologize. I am not a writer - God did not give. How could he, and it happened. Not everyone is born by Oleg Kaptsov (I read him — the devil writes amusingly) or Dmitri Konanykhin (for the first time I read fakingshitting solid), to each his own.

From myself: I, personally, would love to work in SpaceX. I know it’s interesting and worthy of payment. They will not take it: they are too old, and even tall, everything reaches the brain for a long time.

Thanks to the help in translating Dasha (Oxford - don't drink it), Ilon writes so intricately, and my knowledge is limited.

Used materials and photos:
http://www.floridatoday.com
https://www.facebook.com
http://topwar.ru
https://bookscriptor.ru
http://www.hcms.ru
http://www.extremetech.com
https://www.youtube.com
https://i.ytimg.com
http://www.techinsider.io
https://geektimes.ru
https://www.nasa.gov
www.capcomespace.net
http://a402-bgtu.narod.ru/
http://lozga.livejournal.com/72255.html?thread=220223
http://www.spacex.com/
https://www.wikipedia.org/
http://izvestiacontent.ru
https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com
https://i.kinja-img.com
Clip group East - Mirages (Union 18).
http://ruscosmos.narod.ru
http://www.wired4space.com
http://vpk.name
http://mapgroup.com.ua
208 comments
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  1. aiw
    aiw 24 May 2016 12: 45 New
    22
    Namesake, thanks for the article! It’s good that it was published ... it’s a pity that I can put only one plus.

    The saddest thing in this whole story is not that the Kononikhins write such articles - the saddest with what sincere, uncontrollable enthusiasm the audience perceives this.
    1. brasist
      brasist 24 May 2016 15: 20 New
      +8
      I will support one more plus good
      1. bulvas
        bulvas 24 May 2016 15: 38 New
        +6
        I agree that screaming will not achieve much good.

        Not a few examples

        Thank you for the article

        1. Nevsky_ZU
          Nevsky_ZU 24 May 2016 16: 02 New
          12
          Time will judge everything. I also hardly believe in reusable rocket stages. At the expense of private astronautics in the form of corporations with a board of directors, I believe, but in the form of eccentric billionaires, no !!!
          In general, somewhere I have already seen this trend? bully
          1. Rus2012
            Rus2012 24 May 2016 17: 02 New
            +8
            Quote: Nevsky_ZU
            Time will judge everything.

            ...by itself! The dust will settle down, the foam will come off ... :)
            I was not too lazy, I walked along the diagonal of this passage - the author did not add anything new, I. Maski's genius did not prove. In fact, he did not refute anything from the fact that the specialists reproached him. So, he exposed the petty flaws of Konanykhin.

            But look, what aplomb and reproaches, as if he and Konanykhin studied in the same group and are opposed to him in the circle of friends -
            Dmitriy! And what have you done for your country (as a "mechanical engineer") or for yourself / for home / for a family (except for "a pair of good-quality novels")?
            Repaired leaking toilet bowl? Brought a Christmas tree ... on May 9? You can enlighten me. Then let's talk.
            About the "dude" the whole world knows:
            Ilon Rivs Musk-Konstruktor Success


            And everyone knows Herostat ... and many others who left their mark on history in obscene ways ...

            And a reference to the report of autonomous tests of the Dal system - why here?
            We also know about that project. Is this to show "involvement"?

            All this is unworthy for the material published on the VO, and so the family is as if a contention with arguments ... he himself is! In this part Konanykhin is at least fun with humor and not evil.
            1. Rus2012
              Rus2012 24 May 2016 20: 17 New
              +4
              Quote: Rus2012
              In this part Konanykhin is at least fun with humor and not evil.

              And the honey that evening clearly ceases to be languid ... :))))))))))))))))))))))

              ... appeared Dmitry Konanykhin’s interview about the “pasta monster” Ilon Mask seriously :)
              Who will chew ties now? laughing

              We stockpile some popcorn, some stronger - a glass of tea and pickles ...

              Here - http://riafan.ru/524534-genii-ili-feik-dmitrii-konanyhin-o-makaronnom-monstre-il


              ona-maska

              I hope VO will not stand aside ...

              To begin with, :)))))))))))

              - Let's get acquainted first.

              - Let's. On the Internet, I position myself as a writer. In April of this year, I received the Gorky Literary Award in the nomination "Russian life" for the best novel of the year 2016. I have been writing 10 for years. I wrote my first novel in 2008, after which he was together ...

              - Accepted?

              - Quite the contrary - rejected by our liberal public. After this, "with grief" I wrote three more novels, and the first was able to publish only last year. Actually, this novel was awarded.

              What I usually keep silent about, because I first of all wanted to declare myself as a writer, this is my background, so to speak. Since 1993, I worked at the NGO Cryogenmash. Before that, he graduated from the Bauman Moscow State Technical University - Faculty of Power Engineering, E-4 Department, specialty “Technique and Low Temperature Physics”. After graduating from Baumanka, I went to work directly to the department dealing with the storage systems for cryogenic components of fuel and oxidizer, as well as refueling of launch vehicles.

              From the same 1993 of the year I, let's say, “deeply drilled” on the subject of building the Indian space center Shriharikot. This place, located a hundred kilometers from Madras, became the basis of the modern Indian space program. After Sriharikota, I continued to engage in ground support for launches. He worked, in particular, in the Sea Launch project - this is a floating cosmodrome for launching Zenit rockets, created by an international consortium with the participation of our rocket and space corporation Energia, the American firm Boeing and the Ukrainian Yuzhmash. In this project, I participated in the development of a system for filling with liquid oxygen.

              Since 1996 of the year I have been working on the topic of "Hangars", that is, on the creation of a family of modular launch vehicles. I was fortunate enough to work with truly legendary people who developed ground-based systems for the Angara and the super-heavy H-1 launch vehicle of the Korolev Lunar program, for Energia-Buran and MAKS Lozino-Lozinsky.

              Actually, this later became one of the impetus for my writing. I want to show in my books that the history of our country is not only and not so much intellectual throwing, but the hard and joyful work of the creator people - the real builders of the state.

              - How did you get exactly to the space theme?

              - By inheritance. My father was a leading specialist in the space “ground” on Cryogenmash, a mother on the same Cryogenmash as a designer of the first category, a patent specialist. I spent all my childhood in the midst of talking about the space industry.
              1. Simple
                Simple 24 May 2016 21: 41 New
                +1
                Rus!
                So, after all, the author of this brawl gave an interview somewhere in the 1 part or in the comments.
                It's the same fm, all from there.
                I myself listened, somewhere 50 minutes.
                1. Rus2012
                  Rus2012 24 May 2016 21: 53 New
                  0
                  Quote: Just
                  So, after all, the author of this brawl gave an interview somewhere in the 1 part or in the comments.


                  Original source, release time on the site - 15: 10 24 MAY 2016
                  If it was, give a link ...
                  1. Simple
                    Simple 25 May 2016 00: 10 New
                    +1
                    The site is probably a printed version.
                    The news was 19 or 20.
                    In my opinion, here she is:
                    http://radiovesti.ru/episode/show/episode_id/39538
                    I'm using a touch phone ...

                    :(
                    1. Rus2012
                      Rus2012 25 May 2016 00: 26 New
                      0
                      Quote: Just
                      The site is probably a printed version.
                      The news was 19 or 20.

                      ... don't think so.
                      The sequence of events is still different -
                      17 on 12: 52
                      PAST MONSTER ILONA MASK
                      Dmitry Konanykhin shared a Florida Today Space publication.
                      https://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=1128071823923229&id=1000016126
                      75483

                      15: 10 24 MAY 2016
                      Interview
                      Genius or fake: Dmitry Konanykhin about the “pasta monster” Ilona Mask
                      In the preface -
                      The prologue to this interview there was hype around the highly-publicized project of the Canadian-American billionaire Elon Musk to create reusable Falcon rockets and the Dragon reusable spacecraft by SpaceX, a private company. The sensational concept, which provides for the conquest of space "by a private contractor at much lower prices than state corporations," found a lively response both abroad and in our country. The noise became significantly greater after Musk, who no less became the prototype of the most Hollywood Tony Stark - Iron Man - managed to successfully land the first stages of his Falcon 2016 rockets on the ASDS offshore platform in April and May of the year 9.

                      At that moment, it really began to seem to many that the era of state-owned rocket and space corporations, disposable launch vehicles and disposable spacecraft is coming to an end. Maskofili believed: given the fact that space shuttles like Burana and Shuttle have been gathering dust in museum halls for a long time, only Iron Man will send satellites, cargo and people into space ... Sorry, His Brilliant Majesty Ilon Musk!

                      However, on a par with “maskkofilov” immediately found a decent amount of “maskofobov”, who said that Musk - a generator of not technical innovations, but solid financial “drank”. Imagine the joy of the latter, when Musk tweeted that the first stage of the Falcon 9, which landed on the ASDS, did it so “successfully” that it was not suitable for reuse?

                      Russian writer Dmitry Konanykhin, who wrote the article “Pasta Monster Ilona Mask”, undertook to comment on what happened on his blog. about the knowingly constructive flaw in the concept of His Genius. Dmitry could not have imagined that his modest text would instantly scatter along the Runet, provoking a very different reaction from the public - from violent indignation to no less stormy approval.

                      By agreeing in advance that Konanykhin’s conclusions are not indisputable, the Federal News Agency decided to acquaint readers with Dmitry’s point of view, which he outlined in an interview format and which, in our opinion, is of interest to both supporters of the ideas of Ilon Mask and their opponents.

                      http://riafan.ru/524534-genii-ili-feik-dmitrii-konanyhin-o-makaronnom-monstre-il
                      ona-maska
            2. NordUral
              NordUral 25 May 2016 00: 31 New
              0
              In this article, everything secondary is stuck out, and most importantly - the cost of repeated, economically verified starts is hushed up. The devil is hiding in such details.
              And the article by reference is a lousy libel.
          2. nezvaniy_gost
            nezvaniy_gost April 15 2017 21: 43 New
            0
            In the 70s, for sure, no one believed in a telephone with a TV in his pocket. Well, okromya crazy.
        2. opus
          24 May 2016 17: 00 New
          +4
          Quote: brasist
          Namesake, thanks for the article!

          Quote: bulvas
          I will support one more plus

          Quote: bulvas
          Thank you for the article

          And all of you to Danke Schoen.
          Glad I liked it hi
          maybe I learned to write?
          wink
          1. bulvas
            bulvas 24 May 2016 18: 35 New
            +2
            Quote: opus

            maybe I learned to write?


            My opinion:

            facts compiled and presented well, intelligibly and convincingly
            It is felt that the author understands what he is writing about.

            Of the artistic merits, one can note humor - a big plus

            and the rest, as you say, is not a female romance;

            1. opus
              24 May 2016 20: 01 New
              +3
              Vasiliy...
              cons tell you and me the opposite.
              Well, I didn’t talk about "having no analogue in the world", or how we will tear the United States to the "British flag".
              Come on.
              I need minuses, I’m ashamed of shoulder straps, and the administration doesn’t want to pity it either (they say that only for a large fee, and not all)
              1. bulvas
                bulvas 24 May 2016 20: 28 New
                +1
                Quote: opus
                Vasiliy...
                cons tell you and me the opposite.
                Well, I didn’t talk about "having no analogue in the world", or how we will tear the United States to the "British flag".
                Come on.
                I need minuses, I’m ashamed of shoulder straps, and the administration doesn’t want to pity it either (they say that only for a large fee, and not all)


                Anton, without the minuses, it would be completely uninteresting, imagine that you don’t blurt out - get a plus.

                Getting cons, you inevitably begin to wonder whether he said correctly where the error is.

                I recently got so wrong about the battle on the Kursk, thanks, corrected.

                Pros amuse, cons raise tone, everything is fine

                The only thing - I would like cons with comments, but those who put cons do not write sensible comments, and those who write them do not put cons ...





                1. godofwar6699
                  godofwar6699 24 May 2016 21: 39 New
                  +3
                  Quote: bulvas
                  without cons would be completely uninteresting


                  I have so many of them laughing
                  1. opus
                    25 May 2016 11: 46 New
                    +2
                    Quote: godofwar6699
                    I have so many of them

                    I'm trying to periodically bring you into positive .... wink
                    Your cons from the flag and from citizenship.
                    These are reflexes
                2. opus
                  25 May 2016 11: 44 New
                  +3
                  Quote: bulvas
                  The only thing - I would like the minuses with comments, but those who put the minuses do not write sensible comments, and those who write them do not put the minuses ..

                  Wise mind
              2. mav1971
                mav1971 24 May 2016 23: 01 New
                +5
                Quote: opus
                Vasiliy...
                cons tell you and me the opposite.
                Well, I didn’t talk about "having no analogue in the world", or how we will tear the United States to the "British flag".
                Come on.
                I need minuses, I’m ashamed of shoulder straps, and the administration doesn’t want to pity it either (they say that only for a large fee, and not all)


                Put a plus.
                For in your articles and comments - there is interesting useful information.
                For the sake of which you have to read hundreds and thousands of useless posts.
                But it's worth it.
                Extract grain among the chaff.
                Thank you!
                1. opus
                  26 May 2016 00: 16 New
                  +1
                  Quote: mav1971
                  Put a plus.

                  Oh, thanks.
                  And then to a greater extent in face, but in lipstick.
                  HZ how to curry favor request
          2. The comment was deleted.
          3. ohtandur
            ohtandur 25 May 2016 11: 41 New
            +1
            by the way about the transportation in the USA 3.7 I think it is not a problem for them at all, for the reason that they have a practice of transferring their "faxes" houses made of wood. and they will be more than 3,7 meters wide. and somehow even transported across America. I think that steps are not a problem for them either. There is another question that I thought you would reveal in the 2nd part - will these elements withstand repeated loads? This is the main intrigue, and the rest is small things that engineers, both the United States and Russia, can decide. Wish would be ...
            1. opus
              25 May 2016 11: 54 New
              +2
              Quote: ohtandur
              By the way, about transportation in the USA. Xnumx

              In the USA since 1982 only restrictions on the length of conventional semi-trailers, set individually by states, with federal law only prohibiting this limit to be less than 48 '(§658.13 FMCSA Regulations). In almost half of the states, the minimum value is taken for the limit, and the maximum for today is Oklahoma 59'6 "(~ 18.1 m). This is how the American" standard "was formed - a semi-trailer 48 '(~ 14.6 m) long with a biaxial bogie and arbitrarily long a bonnet tractor with a 6x4 wheel arrangement and a large sleeping compartment ("truck").
              in the USA: for every inch (and this is 2,54 cm), axle loads of up to 500 pounds (1 pounds equal to 454 g) are allowed, and on steered wheels 600 pounds. ... for standard
              as well as oversized cargo



              Quote: ohtandur
              The question is something else that I thought you would reveal in the 2 part - will these elements withstand repeated loads?

              1. Well, I didn’t set such a task, I walked along Konanykhin.
              2.Everything will not fit in part.1.h.2
              3. The idea is good, I’ll try to open it up, I’ll write in spaceX tomorrow (2 will answer for weeks), but this is probably 4.
              4. Why 3 wise up fzr1000 need to try it
  2. The comment was deleted.
  3. black
    black 24 May 2016 15: 34 New
    +6
    Let's wait and see. I wrote yesterday. Not everything is clear with the finances of Elon Musk.
    1. Asadullah
      Asadullah 24 May 2016 16: 53 New
      11
      Not everything is clear with the finances of Elon Musk.


      What do not you understand? Just the finances are the most incomprehensible in Russia, with some personalities. And with Mask, it’s more than clear. For example, you are walking along Milford Street, you see the inscription - WELLS FARGO, go in, contact the loan administrator. Show your space program in the project. You are asked how much you can invest your money in the project, you answer, all your assets, here are papers, a little over a billion greens on them. A little simplified, for a more complete assimilation of the average man, but within a few months the bank will tell you what part of the project he will be able to finance. Further included are accounting offices that prepare stocks for the stock exchange, interest groups gather, and presentations are held. By the way, many volunteer enthusiasts gather around such projects who are trying to help with some of their actions. Etc.

      Here is a Russian example, a long billionaire who, like an iceberg, hides most of his assets in offshore companies, collaborates with semi-criminal elements, supplying him with black cash on Courchevel and selected whores, orders a prototype of a new Russian car from talented engineers, six months later in garages they glued a prototype from fiberglass to him, which cost him one thousand two hundred euros. And then a long fat bag begins to terrorize his state, so that it gives money for production. When they don’t give money, he angrily tries to plunge into opportunistic activity, waving a finger at the Kremlin. Fortunately, our democracy is not strong enough and lanky to give a vivid example of the impoverished former billionaires in London, mastering the local national sport in the run for handouts.

      And according to the article, let us leave a squabble on the author’s conscience according to the comments, but what is Mask bad about? What does the author compare it with? With the most powerful space power in the past? Which space program has 300 million citizens? What is the fault of Mask, that he is American, or that he was able to raise money and enter space as a private person? Though with failures and not immediately, but it is a success. I’ll say for myself that we really lack these of our Masks, and to that American, I wish good luck and all the best.
      1. Rus2012
        Rus2012 24 May 2016 17: 24 New
        +6
        Quote: Asadullah
        What is the fault of Mask, that he is American, or that he was able to raise money and enter space as a private person

        Comrade, nobody from this point of view (I. and my colleagues, anyway) blames I. Maska. Moreover, due to the fact that he is an American!

        And we have decent people capable, really capable of creating breakthrough systems. For example, the "Fanstream" project of my friend A. Gomberg, based on the Su-27 with 4 Al-31, which in non-afterburner mode can fly in supersonic mode and go to the suborbit with a liquid-propellant engine.
        http://alternathistory.org.ua/proekt-sverkhzvukovogo-passazhirskogo-samoleta-fan


        Another thing is that it is impossible to consider other people, collectives, country, to be defective, and "Mask is a genius of all times and peoples"!
        What he created is a trivial product, which today really has not bypassed the "Proton", still a Soviet design. With the condition of the return of the stage, the performance characteristics will be 40% worse (as if calculated, from Vicki). And how it will be real, no one knows ...
        1. Asadullah
          Asadullah 24 May 2016 20: 19 New
          +6
          And we have worthy people capable, really capable of creating


          Dear friend! For all there is no speech, the question is in religion. Leaving the ideology drawn to the ears of the CPSU, in the USSR there was still a religion of genius, dreamer, talent, spreading the dregs of life. This religion has given names that will go down in the history of mankind if it does not become completely idle. Today in Russia there is the religion of the Oligarch, whom everyone curses, but secretly wish to become one, so that *** in the golden toilet bowl and devour the winged seven-membered. You called bright minds, underground. In the West, there is also no religion of talent, but this denomination is not in an illegal situation, there are from this sect, which includes the elect, united by a dream, not forgetting about competition. I don’t want the new Central Committee of the CPSU from that, but I don’t want the God of Mamon even more. And today he is in Russia on the altar. We also need the talents you mentioned, we need adventure talents, we need patronage schools for young people. We desperately need to allocate smart and put them above others. Then Mamon will turn into a dull little devil splashing in the urinal.
  4. gregor6549
    gregor6549 24 May 2016 15: 36 New
    +4
    The article is excellent. Good edification to "highly literate" and "very clever" authors. An absolute plus
  5. abarth
    abarth 24 May 2016 15: 38 New
    10
    it’s not sickly you parted)))) time will tell whether it works or not, or Elon Musk sells it again, earns money and thinks up something again ... it's just money, and you cut for an idea)))

    Yes, I have not read either about "pasta" or about "no pasta" parts 1. and 2. none of you authors know what Elona Musk is thinking.
    1. opus
      24 May 2016 17: 02 New
      +3
      Quote: abarth
      Yes, I have not read either about "pasta" or about "no pasta" parts 1. and 2.

      Sense to leave comments?
      Do you need +?
      Keep
    2. Asadullah
      Asadullah 24 May 2016 17: 15 New
      +4
      or Elon Musk will sell it again,


      And what did he sell before that, on what he earned, and what he spent on? Drinks Krug 1928 five bottles a day?

      I work abroad, where I've never been, but the most interesting thing, I remember the VDNKh exhibition, the Space pavilion, enthusiastic boys and girls. How much admiration and dreams were in their eyes. Surprisingly, I don't often meet such eyes abroad, but I do. When I return to Russia for a short time, I am in a stupor, everyone has a headache on how to make money. More and more like a huckster festival. As they say, it is easy to blame the mirror, only the face will not straighten from this. In the USA, you will earn in a law office a thousand times more than in space, only a dreamer can invest in space.
  6. just exp
    just exp 24 May 2016 15: 41 New
    +8
    the fact that the article disproving the success of the Mask was written on his knee and does not stand up to criticism is a fact. but the fact is also the fact that all the adventures of the Mask are promoted, God forbid. and PR is needed only by pyramids and scams, a suitable product will be in demand without any PR. all the more so since it turns out that the previous Mask's ventures did not shine with genius but were stupidly bought for money from other inventors.
    1. Asadullah
      Asadullah 24 May 2016 17: 03 New
      +8
      but the fact is also the fact that all the adventures of the Mask are promoted, God forbid. and PR is needed only for pyramids and scams,


      Come on, in the USA without advertising, without PR, without lobby, without connections in the establishment, you will not collect a cent. And the word gamble warns me. When the Tesla plant was being built, they also wrote about a gamble, but orders for cars around the world, and reserve workshops started working. A gamble, this is MMM. These are complex rollback systems in domestic road construction, these are the inter-partners of trading networks, this is when the state must fight the state inside.
      1. just exp
        just exp 24 May 2016 17: 11 New
        0
        read about the topic with Tesla. there is a real scam. Yes, with products, but tinted from scratch.
        http://nnm.me/blogs/antiusa/ostap-petrikovich-mask-polnoe-razoblachenie-razrabot
        ok-geniya-tysyacheletiya /
        if my post modera will not be erased.
        1. Asadullah
          Asadullah 24 May 2016 20: 25 New
          +1
          there is a real scam


          Remember Bender? He always left something in return. If you do not leave anything in return, then you are called a robber, a thief, a fraudster. Do you think the most modern car in the world is a worthy exchange? Moreover, Tesla shook the American automobile market so much that it remained a year before the revolution. A maximum of two. Remember my words.
          1. just exp
            just exp 24 May 2016 21: 35 New
            +2
            minus not me, but honestly your words
            Remember my words.

            they say that nothing will be there. just an observation. when I see that someone writes "remember this tweet" then nifiga this tweet did not come true. in general, events in Ukraine have spoiled the reputation of this technique.
            1. mav1971
              mav1971 24 May 2016 23: 32 New
              +2
              Quote: just EXPL
              minus not me, but honestly your words
              Remember my words.

              they say that nothing will be there. just an observation. when I see that someone writes "remember this tweet" then nifiga this tweet did not come true. in general, events in Ukraine have spoiled the reputation of this technique.


              Tesla plans to 2020 year 500 thousand cars a year.
              The annual spending on R&D is 600 million per year.
              That opus about Tesla and the Mask - can be discussed if it was technical.
              Believe me, any business can be turned upside down.
              Even your personal life, looking at your work book. can be painted like this. that they lynch you for minutes through 2-3 after writing the text. Easy and laid back.
  7. viktorR
    viktorR 24 May 2016 15: 42 New
    11
    For me, the whole article is agitation, where it is necessary and not necessary seasoned with a beautiful picture.
    Here he says, what kind of Mask, and this and that, will do everything, everything will work out for him, look at what pictures are beautiful, and the first private trader, and generally so ornately says :)
    Now the minuses will certainly fly away, from enthusiastic fans and fans to sprinkle ash on their heads :))).

    The technology of supercooling liquid oxygen was mastered in our country at the end of 1959 by the team of the V.L. Shabransky. They had it before. It (technology) is used by everyone who requires LONG-TERM storage of LOX in a filled PH: subcooling is carried out by evaporation of a part of the oxygen with subsequent drainage into the environment. Only this is not in order to pour more into the tank. This is for long-term storage of combat missiles at the launch site. LOX hypothermia was not used for the Energia LV, if anyone is interested. And in the video of the Falcona launch, I did not find any "hypothermia" or the corresponding start-up equipment at the joint venture. And it (equipment) is terribly expensive and large.


    After that, you can not read. In the memoirs of Chertok B.E. It is stated bluntly that the re-cooling of the components was just to get into the tank more. The author of some kind of tugomotiny nhrenyachil ...
    About the equipment is also funny ...
    1. opus
      24 May 2016 17: 30 New
      +3
      Quote: viktorR
      For me, the whole article is agitation,

      not agitation, but the answer to vyser (stupid at that). I was not the first to agitate!
      = cheat
      Quote: viktorR
      And do not seasoned with a beautiful picture.

      you will not please, as with the price of gas in your country, as well as with gas.
      you like more vyser without pictures:
      "Pasta Monster Ilona Mask, or the logical outcome of the adventure"
      Quote: viktorR
      Cons now

      who needs you? Than that you reminded me Poroshenko "Jesus Elovanka" and about the aggressor
      Quote: viktorR
      After that, you can not read. In the memoirs of Chertok B.E. It is stated bluntly that the re-cooling of the components was just to get into the tank more.

      1. You have not read memoirs fool lying again
      1.1. not "components", but only an oxidizing agent
      1.2. You can immediately see the southern man from the European country.
      Does the diesel fuel never freeze?
      Aviation kerosene T-1. Temperature crystallization onset - minus 60 ° С
      Aviation kerosene TS-1. Temperature crystallization onset - minus 60 ° С
      Aviation kerosene RT. Temperature crystallization onset - minus 55 ° С
      Aviation kerosene thermostable T-6. Crystallization onset temperature - minus 60 ° С
      Thermostatic kerosene T-8В. Crystallization onset temperature - minus 50 ° С
      Jet-A aviation kerosene. Temperature freezing no higher than minus 40 ° С

      Subcool: further to the path, to the TNA and to the COP Will you serve with a shovel or a screw?
      density at 20grS = 0,7520 at minus 15 gC 0,7786 g / cm3 do you count the gain taking into account the hemorrhoids? help ?.
      This is the Angara launch vehicle.

      Highlighted in yellow - a pipeline that performs the same function (the same as the fuel tank (lower) of the first stage of the Soyuz-2.1в launch vehicle — inside the pipeline). Judging by the proportions, this is also an oxidizer pipeline (oxygen tanks are larger than kerosene for an oxygen-kerosene pair), but brought out from the side to simplify and reduce the cost of production.
      No need for thermal insulation - otherwise everything WILL "COOL" AND FREEZE TO BABIES
      1.3. DASHBOARD REMINDED ABOUT H-1 (THERE A TROUBLE: DO NOT DISCLOSE MON, DO NOT LOOK FOR AMERICANS):
      Launch path inclination changed from 65 to 52 degrees. Another measure to increase the payload mass is to decrease the orbit altitude from 300 to 220 kilometers. On subsequent launch vehicles, the operating fuel supply will be increased due to the introduction of inserts in the equatorial part of the tanks; fuel temperature control to a temperature minus 15 – 20 degrees and hypothermia of oxygen to minus 191 degrees, as well as forcing thrust of engine systems of all three stages at 2%.
      1. opus
        24 May 2016 17: 37 New
        +3
        with N-1 there was an unsolvable design miscalculation (hanging tanks - FAU-2)
        And no matter what technical tricks were used, it did not save her: there was not enough PN or there was not enough energy perfection of the LV.
        and the "hypothermia" of oxygen.
        you are on duty on duty (P-7) filled up.
        The oxidizing agent is liquid oxygen. outside 20grS, and even that's all + 50grS.
        Heats up, evaporates, we lose shopping mall.
        What to do boo?
        Is the refrigerator a compressor and drive m / m missile and ground prelaunch complex?
        (there is no refrigerator on the P-7)
        The output is the evaporation of the LCD.
        Pour water on your hand and go out under the Ukrainian sun! It got colder (on the arm (.
        Same thing with the P-7!
        2.O2 liquid (−222,65 ° C) and boiling point 90,188 K (−182,96 ° C)
        Chertok: up to -191грС

        LCD has a density of 1,141 g / cm³
        Will you find an increase in the volume yourself? (Change in density, when T changes by 7 (seven) degrees Celsius?
        Or help?

        Now compare the tanks (volumes, masses) of the Falcon and the N1!
        St mass 2 950 t versus 506 t.РН Н-1 separation of steps with dry tanks (which has ruined and is no longer used) Falcon with a balance of up to 1000kg .. As with all
        Quote: viktorR
        The author of some kind of tugomotiny nhrenyachil ...

        I’ve been a censor for two years already. I’m not saying that a lot of mutants (kaklomutantov) appeared in Ukraine, they don’t believe me, they throw themselves with poop.
        The question is who is right?
        Quote: viktorR
        About the equipment is also funny ...

        enlighten.
        DO YOU AGREE Are you just offended by "kakly", "vUkraina", "ukroponos"?
        1. But what can I do? "Never when we will not be brothers" - I wrote not!
        2. There really is diarrhea written.
        3. I believed that UKRAINIANS live here on TopVar, and kakly, Ukrainians - on the censor.
        1. Vadim237
          Vadim237 24 May 2016 18: 03 New
          0
          How much is a cubic meter of liquid hydrogen and a cubic meter of oxygen?
          1. opus
            24 May 2016 18: 28 New
            +1
            Quote: Vadim237
            How much is a cubic meter of liquid hydrogen and a cubic meter of oxygen?

            but why should you?
            Especially hydrogen?
            on google you will find both wholesale and retail and for oxygen cocktails
            1. Vadim237
              Vadim237 24 May 2016 19: 08 New
              +2
              There is a missile proposal - to become a co-investor in the project - that's what I'm thinking about.
              1. opus
                24 May 2016 20: 03 New
                +2
                Quote: Vadim237
                There is a missile proposal - to become a co-investor in the project - that's what I'm thinking about.

                Clear.
                Well, if not laziness, go over my comments.
                I gave the price of LOX and H2 and their rocket kerosene somewhere,
                with links to where, who. it is visible there.
                I'm a little lazy.
                But, I remember very clearly: liquid nitrogen, in the days of the USSR, it cost 1 liter of nitrogen = 1 liter of milk
                I think it’s unlikely that has changed
        2. HollyGremlin
          HollyGremlin 24 May 2016 18: 31 New
          +1
          The person wrote the case, and again you push the size, probably a lot of time. It is a pity that the dog ate an article about the problems. The agitation, namely the agitation, in the article to Falcon, only a halo is not enough - not a single minus. But didn’t miss the moment it hurts to pinch RosKosmos, do you have a tooth on it?
          1. opus
            24 May 2016 20: 06 New
            +2
            Quote: HollyGremlin
            But they didn’t miss the moment, it’s painful to pinch RosKosmos,

            Where.
            I didn’t dance on the bones (Danced Konanykhin and Co. on the Bones of the Mask)

            Quote: HollyGremlin
            do you have a tooth on him?

            having been in their offices / offices - yes

            Ministry of General Engineering (in its units) - had the honor to study / work
            1. HollyGremlin
              HollyGremlin 25 May 2016 00: 20 New
              0
              Out of my harmful curiosity - the salary didn’t work or was asked? So they will take over the ocean - that person is good, his own, ideological, and even with his head. By the way, “dancing on the bones” is already a jolt, well, and so the whole article shows through hatred for our railways, for our runway, although there are more than 300 of them, even our location is not successful, not like in the United States. This did not apply to the article about pasta, Falcon does not protect it, it refers to the exposure with the left heel, but it hurts.
        3. Lekov L
          Lekov L 24 May 2016 20: 50 New
          -1
          Colleague do not go to the individual, well, they!
          It's not worth it wink !
          Half of you are opposing and a quarter of your arguments do not understand.
          They are not experts or even qualified amateurs like me.
          It’s just that your sharp (maybe unnecessarily, maybe not) position caused quite understandable emotional rejection.
          If you were a little more academic and the fussing around the arguments would be less, and the comments would rather be more qualified (their number would simply decrease and more of them would be used in the case).
          Thank you very much for your informed opinion about the amusing article about "macaroni".
          With great respect.
          Approx.
          1. opus
            24 May 2016 22: 45 New
            +3
            Quote: Lekov L
            Colleague do not go to the individual, well, they!

            Hey. guilty, correct.

            Quote: Lekov L
            They are not experts or even qualified amateurs like me.

            Well, I don’t crawl with comments and moralizing that I don’t understand!
            About the rifle -th zero, about grenades the same about Monica Lewinsky, it’s not special ..
            Quote: Lekov L
            It’s just that your sharp (maybe unnecessarily, maybe not) position caused quite understandable emotional rejection.

            Advise me how to be. Liberastov we do not like, you start "sorry", thank you "," let me know your opinion "- immediately face on the table, write Navalny.
            We like ka with "when from the shoulder" and went nah.
            Like Zhirik.
            I start at the level of Vladimir Volfich ... again, not so.
            I don’t understand:
            Either you need to be a deputy of the State Duma or
            (attention contains obscene speech of the DEPUTY OF THE STATE DUMA OF THE RUSSIAN FEDERATION) -I ask you not to ban me, this is a professor
            Colonel, not me

            Maybe I chose the wrong topic?
            crying
            1. Lekov L
              Lekov L 24 May 2016 22: 56 New
              +2
              Academic need, academic ..
              Like
              "Dear colleague, your unfounded insinuations do not at all correlate with the arguments generally accepted in our highly scientific community, since the facts presented in the article are not authentic in the light of the newly discovered realities". hi

              "There are no trousers and satisfied citizens go home." - (c) O.S.B.M.Bender - beat. laughing

              And you are so directly at once and Zhirik all over the tinsel.
              Ah ah ah wink
              Respectfully..
      2. viktorR
        viktorR 24 May 2016 19: 20 New
        0
        not agitation, but the answer to vyser (stupid at that). I was not the first to agitate!

        Vyser vyser? Well cool, well done.
        not "components", but only an oxidizing agent

        Isn't an oxidizing agent a component?
        You have not read the memoirs fool lying again

        Well, of course you know better what I read and what not :)
        you will not please, as with the price of gas in your country, as well as with gas.

        Cheo :)?
        who needs you? Than that you reminded me Poroshenko "Jesus Elovanka" and about the aggressor
        How did Avon burst you))) Calm down, so grab a heart attack, who will stand up for the Mask :)?

        PS But moderate your ardor, and the warning is not far from 8 ...
        1. opus
          24 May 2016 20: 11 New
          +2
          Quote: viktorR
          Vyser vyser? Well cool, well done.

          From the very beginning I warned that I would take the same pace style as Konanykhin
          Quote: viktorR
          Isn't an oxidizing agent a component?

          Konanykhin writes about kerosene.
          you write about component AH, not about componentE
          Quote: viktorR
          In the memoirs of Chertok B.E. Directly stated that re-refrigeration components

          about perholОwaiting
          tch la-la is not necessary.
          I in my opinion about the kerosene sludge clearly explained?
          Quote: viktorR
          Well, of course you know better what I read and what not :)

          bloopers yes
          Quote: viktorR
          Cheo :)?

          Togo
          Quote: viktorR
          The author of some kind of tugomotiny nhrenyachil ...
          About the equipment is also funny ...

          you can’t please, Mos * and (those who are on Khgilyak) are to blame for everything, always to blame
          Quote: viktorR
          Calm down, so grab a heart attack, who will stand up for the Mask :)?

          until I complain about the motor, the CCM was, although I won’t fulfill the norm, however: I can chop firewood. And what are the symptoms noticed? Are you a doctor besides?
          Quote: viktorR
          PS But moderate your ardor, and the warning is not far from 8 ...

          Well, you do not get used to knocking.
          Dare
          In us, then "there is no free spirit"
          ============================================
          Adjustment.
          Perhaps I have run into you in vain.
          By Comments: Sevastopol ?.
          Well then, excuse me / forget (but you already gave the same)
          1. viktorR
            viktorR 24 May 2016 20: 31 New
            +2

            until I complain about the motor, the CCM was, although I won’t fulfill the norm, however: I can chop firewood. And what are the symptoms noticed? Are you a doctor besides?
            “Very similar to showing off.” Probably often in front of the mirror you look at yourself, well, still, a whole CCM. Yes, and he writes articles on VO, and in comments of all vrazhin cuts to pieces with his verb))).


            you can’t please, Mos * and (those who are on Khgilyak) are to blame for everything, always to blame
            Before hysteria, they’d better look into my profile, look stupid :).

            About Cooling

            - I admit it, I blunted it, and then, due to the context of your article, I wrote in the plural on the machine. But in fact the question is why it was supercooled. But you have found something to dig :) congratulations, twice well done.

            Well, you do not get used to knocking.

            - Cheo :)?

            In us, then "there is no free spirit"

            Tell me, after all, you deliberately now "xoxla" like, in my face "lower", so that the plus signs will click on you :)?
            1. opus
              24 May 2016 23: 04 New
              +2
              Quote: viktorR
              Probably often in front of the mirror you look at yourself, well, still, the whole CCM

              No, it’s not photogenic, I forbid taking pictures of myself, it’s not me on the avatar. Children went to mom, it’s easier for them
              There’s no narcissism, it’s nostalgia. I’m now wrecked in retirement, for 4 months a year in a rehabilitation center. The ass was covered with injections (I can send a prescription and schedule in PM.)
              Quote: viktorR
              But you have found something to dig :) congratulations, twice well done.

              balm ... I'll go show my wife, otherwise she has already taken out my whole brain from the computer for today (she was impatient to "take out the tree" what Well reached 25 24 in May, let it stand for a week or two, doesn’t it ask for a meal?)
              Quote: viktorR
              - Cheo :)?

              I already apologized
              Quote: viktorR
              Tell me, after all, you specifically now "xoxla" like, in my face "lower")?

              By the way, "xoxol" (as we always called him, 20 years old) is my good friend. Now he has been living in Vinnytsia for 7 years already, he lives well, he rents out 2 apartments in the capital (he hurried in time) and lives happily ever after.
              The workshop (in the basement) for sewing clothes is renting the same
              Quote: viktorR
              Before hysteria, they’d better look into my profile, look stupid :).

              I looked in, didn’t even begin to correct what I wrote earlier (I’m lying, I corrected it a bit, it was even more dry) ...
              You have to pay for everything in this world.
              Quote: opus
              I already apologized

              Quote: viktorR
              so that the pluses clicked on you :)?

              if you find a way to appease me at least Joe the captain - a bottle of bugulma from me (Toko’s wife, who returned from Kazan, brought it to try = test weight)
              Quote: viktorR
              - Probably this my replica is also superfluous.

              no, everything is fine.
              But agree .....
              Quote: viktorR
              After that, you can not read. In the memoirs of Chertok B.E.

              (Can I send my diploma? Or bw photos, they will prove that I'm not a deer in this thread)
          2. viktorR
            viktorR 24 May 2016 20: 49 New
            +1
            Well then, excuse me / forget (but you already gave the same)
            Forgot and drove. While writing the previous comment you got better.
            Tell me, after all, you deliberately now "xoxla" like, in my face "lower", so that the plus signs will click on you :)?
            - Probably this my replica is also superfluous.
  8. Buffet
    Buffet 24 May 2016 15: 43 New
    12
    Articles are entertaining. But I didn’t see the thought about the reliability of restarting ... Correct if I am mistaken. After all, for him the whole idea goes. Although the fact that you do not have to wait for gifts from heaven is already good.
    1. opus
      25 May 2016 11: 57 New
      +2
      Quote: SHVEDsky_stol
      But I didn’t see the thought about the reliability of restarting ... Correct if I am mistaken.

      There was no such task.
      everything will not fit (and so 2 parts and cropped)
      maybe next
  9. yehat
    yehat 24 May 2016 15: 56 New
    13
    Death to the pasta! am I wanted to put a negative article, but spared for a moderate position.
    and now in the case. Cosmonautics, whatever one may say, is developing for the future, and Ilon’s decisions, wherever you go, are dead ends and temporary, it’s clear that they will have to be abandoned. In this, his programs differ radically from Soviet missiles or space shuttle programs.
    1. Release. Instead of developing sane technology, an absurd ersatz is chosen. They say that it is economically justified, however, for example, environmental costs were clearly not calculated and, in this context, the decision is simply awful. But this person is positioned as an inventor and almost a pioneer! How so, Ilon, what a dull choice?
    Again, controlled descent could have been organized differently.
    2. Thin pasta. With all due respect to the practicality of this solution, it has obvious disadvantages. And they did not disappear from the fact that they found the pluses. It will not work out to develop astronautics.
    3. What else? Oh yes, the engines. Well, very fresh.
    4. The combination of projects and goals in order to save a meritorious, but strongly betrayed adventure.
    You can go on for a long time. The bottom line is that "innovations" are actually retrograde solutions, which can only be called progress when drinking. And without new, revolutionary solutions that will seriously move the cosmonautics forward, there will be no sense in fuss, even if 999999 Ilonov Maskov comes to the industry,
    but far from endless resources will be squandered.
    Therefore, I am strongly against such "activity". Private traders are useful both economically and morally only if they come and develop their NEW and promising technologies, otherwise it is better this way
    1. iwind
      iwind 24 May 2016 18: 51 New
      +2
      Quote: yehat
      1. Release. Instead of developing sane technology, an absurd ersatz is chosen

      Which one? You will write. That engineers apparently eat their bread in vain.
      Quote: yehat
      environmental costs were clearly not calculated, and in this context, the decision is simply awful

      ??? the fall of the first stage with the remaining fuel is of course yes the norm. What harm is there? They landed, got bogged down.
      Quote: yehat
      Again, controlled descent could have been organized differently.

      Offer the same Roscosmos with pleasure to hear how "Igor Komarov on April 11 on the air of the program" Opinion: Cosmonautics in Russia "on the channel" Russia 24 ". He agreed that Ilona Mask's company is one of the main competitors in the launch vehicle market:" This company and on hearing, and uses new approaches, and does not allow anyone to live in peace. "

      Quote: yehat
      2. Thin pasta. With all due respect to the practicality of this solution, it has obvious disadvantages. And they did not disappear from the fact that they found the pluses. It will not work out to develop astronautics.
      3. What else? Oh yes, the engines. Well, very fresh.
      4. The combination of projects and goals in order to save a meritorious, but strongly betrayed adventure.

      Whereas? there will be no revolution (no technology). If it is not possible to reduce the cost of launches into space, then in general it will be possible to forget about it and 30 flights a year will remain. The economy rules the world - if we can fly a lot there will be financing, there will be breakthroughs financing.
      Quote: yehat
      Therefore, I am strongly against such "activity". Private traders are useful both economically and morally only if they come and develop their NEW and promising technologies, otherwise it is better this way

      He does not need to make a revolution, he must create the possibility of regular flights so that they invest money in space.
      As part of the United States, he already does this somewhere in half the cost of the launch compared to ULA.
      PS the F-35s were so much crumpled and the price is already noticeably less than 100 million for 2017, 2 transatlantic flights were made in a week.
      1. viktorR
        viktorR 24 May 2016 19: 29 New
        0
        here on the F-35 how much crumpled and the price is already noticeably less than 100 million for 2017

        Yeah, $ 100 million. Without engines)))
        1. iwind
          iwind 24 May 2016 19: 45 New
          0
          Quote: viktorR
          here on the F-35 how much crumpled and the price is already noticeably less than 100 million for 2017

          Yeah, $ 100 million. Without engines)))

          no. With engine.
          I can even bring proof for 2017. The budget of the Air Force.
          Although he already has a couple of messages to Nazd, the truth is there for 2016 ...
          But are you sure you want to see this?
        2. Operator
          Operator 24 May 2016 21: 19 New
          0
          And without R&D, with an engine and R&D under 200 million bucks.
          1. iwind
            iwind 24 May 2016 21: 24 New
            -1
            Quote: Operator
            And without R&D, with an engine and R&D under 200 million bucks.

            already discussed (or did you have proofs?). R&D makes sense to share only after the last aircraft.
            Then no .
            ps although progress already you wrote about 251mln $
            1. opus
              24 May 2016 23: 33 New
              +1
              Quote: iwind
              ps although progress already you wrote about 251mln $

              evolves
              Quote: viktorR
              Yeah, $ 100 million. Without engines)))

              no



              2015 (DAMIR)




              Quote: Operator
              And without R&D, with an engine and R&D under 200 million bucks.

              Operator!!!!
              Oy.when there will be a video of the F-35 transportation for "short distances", by railway.
              "Faking shields 3,7 meters."
              I already want to sleep, play WorldofTanks (I have 60 / 56 M, I still need 4 M, they dig me up), and you bet me a minus, I want to find out why.
              1. viktorR
                viktorR 25 May 2016 00: 12 New
                0
                Even you messed up with arithmetic, I got $ 131 million apiece. 131> 100?
                1. opus
                  25 May 2016 12: 02 New
                  +1
                  Quote: viktorR
                  Even you messed up with arithmetic, I got $ 131 million apiece. 131> 100?

                  1.I have FU 2017, you are talking about 15-16
                  2.You just don't think / read correctly
                  3. Do you want to "break your eyes" in accounting?







                  I'm sick of the domestic, and here the English
            2. viktorR
              viktorR 25 May 2016 00: 03 New
              0
              Of course I want proof! Not higher than not lower saw nothing, maybe just late?
              1. iwind
                iwind 25 May 2016 00: 49 New
                0
                Quote: viktorR
                Even you messed up with arithmetic, I got $ 131 million apiece. 131> 100?

                It’s just that oups doesn’t explain its numbers (apparently I think we’ll figure it out for ourselves) - this includes aircraft maintenance and modification of tesity, training, etc. Plus different versions of the F-35 stand differently (F-35A, F-35B, F-35C )
                Quote: viktorR
                Of course I want proof! Not higher than not lower saw nothing, maybe just late?

                Good is not difficult for me. C. Yes, expenses for expansion of production are not included, only F-35 aircraftA.
                All given from the approved budget of the US Air Force F-35 priceA(with a detailed breakdown) for 2017 -93,513 million $
                Airframe $ 62.475
                CFE Electronics $ 16.315
                Engines 12.889 $
                ECO 1.834 $
                http://www.saffm.hq.af.mil/budget/index.asp
                Did I answer the question?
                1. viktorR
                  viktorR 25 May 2016 09: 40 New
                  0
                  Did I answer the question?

                  Honestly, no. I don’t see the link, I see only some kind of screen ... Moreover, in this screen the numbers are not very consistent with the figures of Opus.
                  1. iwind
                    iwind 25 May 2016 09: 59 New
                    0
                    Quote: viktorR
                    I don’t see the link, I see only some sort of screen ...

                    http://www.saffm.hq.af.mil/budget/index.asp
                    OF. The Air Force Financial Management website. here the weight is the budget of the us air force
                    Quote: viktorR
                    as it is not very figures are consistent with the figures of Opus.

                    I wrote. at the opus. Total costs for the entire JSF program (F-35), I have a specific price F-35A How much does it cost. By the way, if you look carefully and deal with the addition of different consumable parts, you can find them
                    Counter-question, how much do you think (with puffs) F-35A?
                    1. viktorR
                      viktorR 31 May 2016 00: 12 New
                      +1
                      Thanks for the link, I will read the time.

                      Counter-question, how much do you think (with puffs) F-35A?
                      With what:?)
                      But seriously, I'm not very interested in how much it costs. I’m rather interested in your motives, just looking at you and Opus is not clear, do you work at all or are you defending Mask and F-35 only on this forum? Or is this the main source of income :)? Just write so many articles and comments, you need to be an absolute loafer :). After correspondence with Opus, I still scoop up at work :), you post comments for 100500 pieces a day :)
            3. Operator
              Operator 25 May 2016 03: 13 New
              +1
              The actual cost of the F-35 program as of December 2015 of the year is 56,4 billion dollars, the number of aircraft produced is 174 units, the cost of one machine 323 million dollars.

              Damn, when will the golem idolatry before the western wunderwaffles stop am
              1. iwind
                iwind 25 May 2016 10: 17 New
                0
                Quote: Operator
                The actual cost of the F-35 program as of December 2015 is $ 56,4 billion, the number of aircraft produced is 174 units, the cost of one aircraft is $ 323 million.

                Damn, when will the golem idolatry before the western wunderwaffles stop

                laughing I’m wondering when you go to the store, is clothing wear also included in the price of the products?
                Quote: Operator
                Damn, when will the golem idolatry before the western wunderwaffles stop

                wow, that is, the search for truthful information is idolatry - then approx.
                Will there be proofs?
                1. Operator
                  Operator 25 May 2016 15: 28 New
                  0
                  The head of the US Army's defense procurement department, Frank Kendal, told 24 on May 2016 that the trial operation of the F-35 would be delayed due to a delay in setting up the machine’s software, reports Reuters.
                  Tests of the combat vehicle, which were planned for the second half of the 2017 year, are now transferred to the 2018 year.
                  According to the forecasts of the Pentagon, the total cost of the invisible fighter program - development and delivery to the troops, maintenance costs - will reach the amount of $ 1.5 trillion by 2070 year.
                  http://www.aviaport.ru/digest/2016/05/25/387240.html

                  PS 500 million dollars for the child prodigy, which will be used for another two years in the mode of a training aircraft, like from a bush laughing
                  1. iwind
                    iwind 25 May 2016 18: 43 New
                    0
                    Quote: Operator
                    The head of the US Army's defense procurement department, Frank Kendal, told 24 on May 2016 that the trial operation of the F-35 would be delayed due to a delay in setting up the machine’s software, reports Reuters.
                    Tests of the combat vehicle, which were planned for the second half of the 2017 year, are now transferred to the 2018 year.

                    Visit again without scattering? This is a delay in Block 3Fand with the summer and late autumn of 2017 ... But the most important adoption of the F-35I will be in Block 3I in August of this year.
                    and the original
                    "Bogdan has already acknowledged that delivery of the final Block 3F software slipped by four months to late fall 2017"
                    Quote: Operator
                    PS 500 million dollars for a child prodigy, which will be operated in the mode of a training aircraft for two more years, as if from a bush

                    If only in your dreams :)) well, where did 500 million come from good laughing
        3. The comment was deleted.
      2. opus
        24 May 2016 23: 23 New
        +3
        Quote: iwind
        Offer the same Roskosmos with pleasure as "Igor Komarov on April 11 on the air of the program" Opinion: Cosmonautics in Russia "on the channel" Russia 24 ". He agreed that Ilona Mask's company is one of the main competitors in the launch vehicle market:" This company and on hearing, and uses new approaches, and doesn't let anyone live in peace»."

        + + + +
        Uryl.
        On the shoulder blades. On the louboutins

        How did I miss this interview, xs ...
      3. yehat
        yehat 25 May 2016 12: 01 New
        +1
        give me a billion dollars a couple of years and i will answer these questions smile
        I've always been enraged by people with the psychology of thimble writers who blackmail people by
        they don’t have answers immediately, and if not, then settle for something else.
        Are you seriously hoping to fool around with this method? Cosmonautics is not your yard hobbies,
        in which all decisions are born in seconds. If you want an answer - invest,
        because it’s work, and sometimes very difficult and expensive.
        Only unlike Mask, I will not give out projects 40-100 years ago for new, stunning inventions. As for the technologies of launching / lifting goods into orbit, it is high time to stop knocking the sledgehammer on the door and start searching for a lock or key to the lock.
        There are self-sustaining processes that can do the job. For example, the law of Archimedes, which is used by ships and airships, or a space elevator.
        The creation of a heavy rocket is an action that does not correspond to the goal itself.
        We do not need a maneuverable flight in orbit, we do not need a controlled flight in the atmosphere, it is not so important for us - it will be delivered in 5 minutes or in a day. A correct understanding of the conditions of the problem gives a chance to solve it correctly. We need to DELETE from point A to point B and the point. But rocket technology solves too broad a task, it is necessary to find something more effective and it is. Therefore, for me, Elon Musk is not a miracle manager-inventor-organizer, but a banal, narrow-minded sneak. But what about Tsiolkovsky, Korolev, Brown? They solved OTHER tasks, and the missile system of launching cargo into orbit was only sufficient at that time, but not a very successful private withdrawal from their work.
        OTHER decisions are needed that will fundamentally change costs, laws and regulations for putting goods into orbit. I do not urge to stigmatize rocket science, but I urge you not to hammer nails with a microscope. Missiles - should not be the main means for cargo turnover with orbit.
        When this simple conclusion comes to, as Lavrov said, I quote "fuckers," then a breakthrough will become possible.
        1. iwind
          iwind 25 May 2016 12: 17 New
          0
          Quote: yehat
          OTHER decisions are needed that will fundamentally change costs, laws and regulations for putting goods into orbit. I do not urge to stigmatize rocket science, but I urge you not to hammer nails with a microscope. Missiles - should not be the main means for cargo turnover with orbit.
          When this simple conclusion comes to, as Lavrov said, I quote "fuckers," then a breakthrough will become possible.

          If they were. So far, there are no real projects other than rockets for delivering PN into orbit. I ask in advance without utopian projects, only what we have now or is already under construction. You really think that engineers all over the world are bullshit. Well, there are no other options now.
          Quote: yehat
          There are self-sustaining processes that can do the job. For example, the law of Archimedes, which is used by ships and airships, or a space elevator.

          You still write about the eternal move. An elevator is nothing more than a beautiful idea. So far, they have not even begun to implement it as a concept. There are too many unsolvable problems, even in theory.
          Quote: yehat
          and it is

          What do you write? Any aerospace company will undertake to implement the project with pleasure.
          Quote: yehat
          When this simple conclusion comes to, as Lavrov said, I quote "fuckers," then a breakthrough will become possible.

          Well, to call people who work in the aerospace field is too much ...
          Quote: yehat
          give me a billion dollars a couple of years and i will answer these questions

          SpacX yielded 278 million
          contract, designed by NASA to provide for developing new boosters, paid SpaceX $ 278 million to develop the Falcon 9 launch vehicle, with incentive payments paid at milestones culminating in three demonstration launches.
          And they are already doing something.
          ps It’s also a shame for me that a large cosmos was not accessible to humanity, but now there was a chance, albeit very, very small, that something would change. In another option, the limit that we see for another 50 years is probes to Pluto, and if the delivery of soil from Mars is lucky.
          1. yehat
            yehat 25 May 2016 13: 09 New
            0
            the fact of the matter is that we are not talking about large space, but about the banal lifting of a load from the surface, roughly speaking, "the first 100-150 km." The rest is much cheaper and easier. Everyone is solving this problem.
            I would not like to talk now about ways of solving this problem - I see about 20 radically different options, but I have never deeply worked them out. It's just that my education quite clearly shows me that there are ways, some of them look just fantastic for ordinary people, but you need to study them, and not build pasta and say "well, what did you want", within these conditions, only THIS is obtained.
      4. yehat
        yehat 25 May 2016 15: 25 New
        0
        Whereas? there will be no revolution (no technology). If you can’t reduce the cost of space launches, then you can forget about it altogether and there will remain 30 flights a year

        it’s just that missile launches are already close to the limit of the race for cost
        there will be no breakthrough, even if the mask or someone else squeezes everything out of this technology.
        All that will be is senseless squabble and competition with a large share of political decisions. Radically different solutions are needed, but they are not. And it won’t be until all investments go into obsolete moral technology. And the fact that putting into orbit with the help of gigantic horseradish and burning large volumes of toxic fuel is outdated, I have no doubt. First, we should think about ecology. If we want to make large-scale delivery into orbit, it is not very good to do this by burning in such volumes of unnatural chemistry. Secondly, much better controlled technology is needed. Now they even breathe cautiously on a rocket so that it doesn’t fly off and explode. Thirdly, we need to develop tight control of objects in orbit so that launch / descent, orbit change and debris cleaning in orbit are accessible so that it becomes a routine and safe operation.
        Combustible rocket technology does not allow this at an affordable price.
        I don't know what they will come up with. Maybe they will invent the combustion of water and oxygen, maybe some kind of atomic engine or a high-speed particle emitter or some kind of sleep-punk project with jumping stations in the atmosphere like an airship, or, finally, they will learn how to control gravity, but other solutions are needed. It is already obvious that they are needed, and you praise the "entrepreneur and inventor" to heaven.
        as for Komarov, he is not talking about the future of astronautics, but about small selfish interests within the existing industry. I can do that too: the future is due to the ruble exchange rate and the rising of the Sun in the east.
        1. aiw
          aiw 26 May 2016 00: 32 New
          0
          > We need radically different solutions, but they are not. And it will not be, until all investments go into obsolete technology.

          For new solutions to appear, new physical principles are needed. And they are not, because there are no corresponding discoveries, because physics is such a thing ... it's not a fantasy to voice.

          > If we want to do a large-scale delivery into orbit, it is very bad to do it by burning in such volumes of unnatural chemicals.

          Oxygen-hydrogen engines are more than natural.

          > Maybe they will invent the combustion of water and oxygen,

          I'm sorry, what? belay

          > maybe some kind of atomic engine or emitter of narrowly directed particles with high speed

          You seem to be saying something about ecology? So, the atomic engine is very ecologically unsafe (even if there is no accident). Ion engines do not have the required traction + require energy sources (solar panels or RTGs), i.e. this is not for the amostphere for sure. I'm not saying what will happen to the ozone layer and induced radioactivity, if you still manage to create an ionic with the required thrust and cut it in the atmosphere.

          > learn to control gravity,

          This is for superstringers, but alas - colleagues are still skidding and no clearance is visible.

          > but other solutions are needed.

          What kind? Can you suggest that the thread is not from the field of science fiction? For example, a gravity lift rests on a material for a cable - there are no materials with the required strength on the ground so far.

          > you praise the "entrepreneur and inventor" to the skies.

          In a short time, he could make a working rocket + return the first stage using technology that no one had done before. What are the achievements of our rocket men during this time? Did you transfer the control system of the union to a new element base, from photographic films with a task on ROM? Well done, th ...

          > I can do that too: the future belongs to the change in the ruble exchange rate and the rising of the Sun in the east.

          That's when the Angara begins to fly with the regularity of the Falcon, then start.
  10. Streich
    Streich 24 May 2016 16: 01 New
    15
    Well, if you told everything correctly, except for one thing, how this construction could land on a barge in the ocean, judging by the frames the excitement was about 3-5 points, and the barge did not swing it 1. 2) as you like to land but the barge should 3) conventional geometry, why the barge did not roll over. All this is possible if on that barge gyroscopes were pushed and active and passive more than on an aircraft carrier.
    How much does a barge cost? And most importantly, the company itself has recognized that there can be no talk of a restart. And one more this story has already been dismantled in the internet by bones all and sundry two weeks ago. Something you are late.
    1. iwind
      iwind 24 May 2016 19: 14 New
      +3
      Stop. I’m just wondering, at least 10 people think that there was no landing ...? recourse
      Quote: Streich
      2) as you wish to land, but the barge should sag and 3) the usual geometry, why the barge did not turn over.

      ??? Why should she turn over (it weighs several times more than the first step)?
      And yes of course it's all Hollywood.
      Falcon 9 First Stage Landing on Droneship (4K)

      or
      360 View | First stage landing on droneship

      so much poor filmed
      1. opus
        24 May 2016 23: 36 New
        +1
        Quote: iwind
        I’m just wondering, how does the 10 minimum think that there was no landing ...?

        These are all mirages
        1. yehat
          yehat 25 May 2016 15: 34 New
          -1
          yes, there was no landing mask
          but I think, in 10-15 years, after a federal investigation, there will be
  11. Vittt
    Vittt 24 May 2016 16: 13 New
    -2
    What nonsense did I read (and to the end)?
    I’m not a stupid person, I understand something, but it seems that one patient from one article is arguing with a patient from another article, not knowing that the patient from the third article (i.e., USA) is watching them.
    Musk is not a clown, he is just curious, and he can.
    1. pimen
      pimen 24 May 2016 16: 41 New
      -5
      Musk is a clown who was given money and allowed to fuck a number of moronic projects, in order to show the whole world that America could do something else, and the American dream was not blown away. This is a pure political, propaganda product.
    2. opus
      24 May 2016 17: 40 New
      +1
      Quote: Vittt
      I read for nonsense (and to the end)?

      we have just different stages of development


      As you know, man descended from a monkey.
      Some have gone far from the monkey, and not who ("the apple does not fall far from the apple tree") so circles and wind ... next to the monkey.
      They just don’t understand that they are moving in a circle.
  12. anton-78rus
    anton-78rus 24 May 2016 16: 18 New
    17
    In my opinion, the author has a tantrum.

    Most of all I liked: "Dimension of 3,7 meters for air transportation - ugh! (In the USA there are 14000 runways-FOURTEEN THOUSAND, and here ... we have about 300-THOUSAND," feel the difference ".)"

    Which aircraft will an 40 m length fit in, even if the number of runways is 140 000?
    1. Operator
      Operator 24 May 2016 17: 05 New
      +5
      Only An-40-124 products can transport 300 meters long: oh, fucking sheet, again these damned Russians laughing
    2. opus
      24 May 2016 17: 52 New
      +2
      Quote: anton-78rus
      In my opinion, the author has a tantrum.

      you as a socialist or patient know better
      Quote: anton-78rus
      I liked the most: "

      I have a question for you: whose twink are you?

      Open all of you.
      specially registered yesterday?
      What to leave with poop? Put minusiks (run through the comments, don't drink too many of them) Are you changing them in the "black list"?
      IL the jamb was stopped (earlier) now "People are ashamed"?
      Quote: anton-78rus
      Which aircraft will an 40 m length fit in, even if the number of runways is 140 000?

      I report (with us):
      1.

      2.C-17H Globemaster III. This is one of the latest aircraft in this series, modification J was made not so long ago. Able to carry 80 cargo, holds 140 people, own weight 120т, length 53м, wingspan - 52м


      3.




      4.

      5. I’ll bring two 1 / 2 if she’s locked and weld in place on the technological seam.
      Terex quarry so with a body (along). The 6 m width of "faking shiites" does not climb anywhere.
      1. anton-78rus
        anton-78rus 24 May 2016 18: 48 New
        +4
        I won’t say anything about twink, I don’t know the terminology.
        Apparently, the author can criticize, the author cannot be :)
        It was registered because in a relatively beautiful wrapper, nonsense was described in a boorish manner.
        By the way, I also liked the illustration where an oversized load is towed by a tractor until it gets sour in a rocket, and about the turning radius that must be on the road so that a road train of 50-60 meters in length can not even stutter. This article by its refutations only confirms the original article
        1. opus
          24 May 2016 19: 01 New
          +1
          Quote: anton-78rus
          I won’t say anything about twink, I don’t know the terminology.


          Twink from English twink - character, specially designed for PVP or PVE at certain levels, armed to the teeth, dressed in the most accessible equipment for this level and equipped with the best enchants and improvements.

          The clone is shorter.


          Quote: anton-78rus
          Apparently, the author can criticize, the author cannot be :)

          To criticize is current for. Hollow
          -no no
          Quote: anton-78rus
          Which aircraft will an 40 m length fit in, even if the number of runways is 140 000?

          Quote: anton-78rus
          By the way, I also liked the illustration where the oversized load is towed by a tractor until they reach the fuel in the rocket will turn sour

          1. Not a single deffective one (even a twink) will carry fuel with a stage, with a launch vehicle.
          -babahnet, 100% bangs and DOP and the nearest farm to heaven ..
          -Saturn5 (where the tractor is) The first stage - S-IC mass (filled) 2290 tons. TWO THOUSAND TWO NINE TONS (2290tons) "fucking Shiite"

          almost 2300 tons of mass. show me that road and the tractor driver. show that tap
          - Kerosene Kisne for 3 years (I think they will last for this period)
          Kislovrodne is sour in general, H2 (that on the one that "Tarkhtor" carries the same.
          The trouble is only minus the strong, especially Hydrogen.
          to evaporate, you need kopressor cooling equipment of the launch complex, another 5000 tons.
          But this is not a hindrance to you, you’ll carry 2300 tons for extra, you will take all 8000 tons.
          Quote: anton-78rus
          This article by its refutations only confirms the original article


          then to you on facebook, to the "that author"
          1. anton-78rus
            anton-78rus 24 May 2016 19: 24 New
            +2
            Thanks for the clarification, I registered today, after the second article, for the above reasons.
            Sorry, I forgot to tag "sarcasm" to comments about sour fuel, etc.
            towing such cargo with a tractor for 5 kilometers on a specially prepared road is not a problem, on a public road at least 500 km on your shoulder, I think you will be the first.
            You will also be the first to attach a 52-length rocket to an aircraft with a total length of 40 m. I am not an expert in aerodynamics, but I suspect that it will not steer very well, although you may have planned to cut it into 140 fragments and distribute to everyone and the passengers of the C-17H Globemaster III "sarcasm"
            1. opus
              24 May 2016 19: 36 New
              +1
              Quote: anton-78rus
              general use on the shoulder at least 500 km, I think you will be the first.

              Ha ha ha
              I drove 250 tons to 900
              Quote: anton-78rus
              You will also be the first to tie an 52 length rocket to an aircraft with a total length of 40 m. I'm not an expert in aerodynamics,




              1. It can be seen, but how did our M take it? looked at the photo?

              2.How L_L was going START UP (do not transport MASK)

              Essentially Fueled

              -------------------
              1. opus
                24 May 2016 19: 39 New
                +2
                Where does SpaceX store all returning rocket stages?
                SpaceX stores all stages on Launch Complex 39A, spaceport at Cape Canaveral, Florida, USA.

                The company rents a launch facility from NASA. In a huge hangar, 39A can simultaneously store up to 5 objects the size of the first stage of the Falcon 9 rocket. But at such a pace, the hangar may be full. over the next few months.


                In this case, here it is planned to assemble a new Falcon Heavy rocket - a larger and more powerful version of the Falcon 9. It will be launched according to plan already in November if all goes well. Falcon Heavy is essentially three Falcon 9 assembled together. And these elements will be collected precisely in the 39 hangar. When assembly begins, the used steps stored in the hangar will have to be moved somewhere.

                Where to?

                Answer: to the test complex at McGregor, Texas. This means a long journey for the Falcon 9. First, the road to McGregor, for storage, and then return to Florida for a restart.

                So carry their poor fellow
                Quote: Tusv
                From California to Florida, 2 THOUSAND 705 MILES. 884 hours on foot. And the road train twice as long.
                / what with transportation and car transporters in a person is not comme il faut in the head belay
                --------------------------------
                Okay..
                Sorry, I'll tell you goodbye
              2. anton-78rus
                anton-78rus 24 May 2016 19: 55 New
                +4
                It's not about the mass, but about the dimensions and speed, if at all, of the possibility of transporting such a road train on public roads.
                If you tie a 40-meter-long rocket to a 52-meter-long aircraft, then perhaps it will hit its tail and partially cover the view of the pilots.
                The author of the original article in a joking manner, without going into technical details, wrote about objective difficulties, you tried to refute these difficulties, but your evidence and ideas only confirm that there really are difficulties and because of them the designers may have gone the way, as suggested by the author of the "crushed" by you articles.
                And to develop a new aircraft for transporting a rocket that is designed to make flights cheaper is a fresh idea. Although if you bring the plane and everything else to the project budget ...
            2. ludoger
              ludoger 24 May 2016 22: 03 New
              0
              it will fit, it will not fit ... like small children. if someone doesn’t know, doesn’t mean, so be it navyagot?
              https://www.google.com.ua/webhp?ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&gws_rd=cr&ei=xSWEVvjaJcXmyQPS_
              624Bg#q=%D1%81%D0%B0%D0%BC%D0%BE%D0%BB%D1%91%D1%82%D1%8B+%D0%B3%D1%83%D0%BF%D0%B
              F%D0%B8+%D1%84%D0%BE%D1%82%D0%BE
              will we find ourselves? or drive by hand too?
      2. viktorR
        viktorR 24 May 2016 19: 33 New
        0
        I have a question for you: whose twink are you?
        Can't a person register? Treat paranoia))
        specially registered yesterday?
        Yesterday? Where do you live? We still have 24-e)).
        1. opus
          24 May 2016 20: 21 New
          +1
          Quote: viktorR
          Can't a person register? Treat paranoia))

          Maybe, maybe ... let’s register
          Well, I’ll be treated. Tell me are you a doctor or a lawyer?
          Quote: viktorR
          Yesterday? Where do you live? We still have 24-e)).

          I have problems with my head, you don’t contradict yourself:
          Either I'm a schizo and don’t pay attention to me, or I'm from the future.
          There is no third
    3. Days
      Days 24 May 2016 17: 55 New
      +3
      Quote: opus
      In terms of geometry, the maximum volume at a fixed area is achieved for the ball. Both the aerodynamic drag and the full surface of the cylinder are proportional to the square of the radius, so the rockets would have to be rather low and wide. However, in reality, the rockets are very thin and high. The fact is that increasing the diameter increases the complexity of manufacturing and transporting the stage.


      This is also interesting. Aerodynamic drag for rockets is frontal drag, all sorts of spherical rockets are already parallel reality.

      Opus's article ultimately turned out to be not much truer than Dimon's opus.
      1. opus
        24 May 2016 18: 19 New
        +1
        Quote: Dagen
        this is drag, all kinds of spherical

        L-s is the midsection. The midsection is the cross section of the maximum diameter perpendicular to the axis of rotation
        But we need to shove more into the unit volume of fuel, and the best is the ball.
        For 1 steps There will be a cone or sphere with equal diameters (the cone has a base diameter)) is not very critical: it passes dense layers of the atmosphere vertically, the pitch is very small
        Recall H-1

        It’s ideal to make a needle (pasta), but it will fall apart
        Quote: Dagen
        Opus's article ultimately turned out to be not much truer than Dimon's opus.

        you know better
        1. Days
          Days 24 May 2016 20: 43 New
          +1
          Quote: opus
          therefore, the missiles would have to be fairly short and wide.

          Quote: opus
          Ideal to make a needle (pasta)


          It seems I'm a little confused in your theoretical calculations. So what kind of missiles should be: balls or needles? Maybe you were thinking about raising rockets, and for some reason you were printing about the ratio of surface area (wtf ?!) to volume?)

          You will shove more fuel per unit volume only if you learn to turn the space. Which is also from parallel reality (at the current technical level).
          1. yehat
            yehat 25 May 2016 13: 43 New
            0
            the ideal form is a ball studded with needles, i.e. Hedgehog laughing
      2. Tusv
        Tusv 24 May 2016 18: 22 New
        +2
        Quote: Dagen
        Opus’s article turned out to be slightly more truthful than Dimon’s opus

        Logistic errors in the comments corrected. Excuse me?
        1. opus
          24 May 2016 20: 26 New
          +4
          Quote: Tusv
          Logistic errors in the comments corrected. Excuse me?


          forgive forgive.
          especially outrage
          Quote: Tusv
          Convinced. But the video is only part of the stage

          that the launch vehicle is not transported in its entirety, it is desirable to assemble (70 m) and refuel (600тn).
          Yes?


          Nothing so fast

          Quote: Tusv
          884 hours on foot. A road train is twice as long.

          3 km / h yes? Already la overtook (well, he was scared it seems)
        2. Days
          Days 24 May 2016 20: 46 New
          0
          Why forgive a person who was not charged with anything?)

          Well, opus does not like delusional (and deliberately false) criticism of American projects so much that he could not help writing the same delusional (and with errors) protection in the form of blanketing pasta. Well, I like it so much, it's a matter of the household) Oleg Kaptsov wonders about armored aircraft carriers to write dozens of articles in the same style as opus wrote this article.
          1. opus
            24 May 2016 20: 55 New
            +1
            Quote: Dagen
            (and with errors)

            For mistakes I will be grateful
            Specifics
            Not this way:

            and invoice, on points (well, as I am)
            Chitata: refutation, reference to which the thread is serious, without maydowns and populism
            ZY. Something I have not found your articles, not a single one, neither a berd nor "well vaaasche".
            YES and according to comments ...


            Quote: Dagen
            It’s interesting to Oleg Kaptsov about armored aircraft carriers to write dozens of articles in the same style,


            1.Hey, hey, I didn't write 10 articles about "this"
            2. Kaptsov has recently become more a specialist in monkeys ... facshing

            3. I'm a Kaptsov clone (or I'm a Kaptsov twink). Some people think (see paragraph 2 Kaptsov’s correspondence with Kaptsov’s clone (with me) some
            That's how we live
            1. Days
              Days 25 May 2016 15: 06 New
              0
              A dispute for the sake of a dispute, an article for the sake of self-affirmation) You, comrade, from some other forum insert my posts - then the "communication" will be even more interesting :)
  13. bmv04636
    bmv04636 24 May 2016 16: 24 New
    +4
    Roscosmos refused to enter into new contracts with NASA and ESA for the delivery of astronauts to the ISS
    24 May 2016, 16: 19
    Roscosmos has no plans to conclude new contracts with NASA and ESA for the delivery of astronauts to the International Space Station (ISS) after the 2018 year, said Sergey Savelyev, deputy head of the state corporation.

    “We work with our partners under existing contracts, we do not plan to conclude new ones,” RIA Novosti quoted him as saying.

    At the end of April, negotiations between Roscosmos and NASA took place in the United States, during which the Vostochny spaceport, the ISS, work in the orbit of the moon, the study of Mars were discussed.

    Now, between Roscosmos and NASA, a contract is in force for the delivery of American astronauts to the ISS on Soyuz spacecraft, the current agreement is valid until 2019.

    Relations between Russia and the West have deteriorated over the situation in Ukraine. The EU and the United States from the point of sanctions against certain individuals and companies have moved to the measures against whole sectors of the Russian economy. In response, Russia has restricted the import of food products from countries that have imposed sanctions against it: the United States, EU Member States, Canada, Australia and Norway.

    Let them fly pasta
    1. sa-ag
      sa-ag 24 May 2016 17: 11 New
      +1
      Quote: bmv04636
      after 2018 year

      again, 2018, for the third time the tone acts as a kind of limiter, but I wonder what is behind this horizon of this? :-)
    2. opus
      25 May 2016 12: 14 New
      +1
      Quote: bmv04636
      Roscosmos has no plans to conclude new contracts with NASA and ESA for the delivery of astronauts to the International Space Station (ISS) after the 2018 year, said Sergey Savelyev, deputy head of the state corporation.


      understand why


      1. Independence from Russia
      2.Colloredo (NASA?) Stated that 2018-signed contracts with Sace X confirm launch prices on average of $ 58 million,which is approximately $ 23 million less than the usual Russian rate on the Soyuz launch vehicle.

  14. Streich
    Streich 24 May 2016 16: 24 New
    +3
    Yes, here is the one about the clever Max, who earns money allegedly on science.
    https://cont.ws/post/277653 читать здесь.
  15. corporal
    corporal 24 May 2016 16: 25 New
    +6
    There would be more such articles on VO. To author + good
    1. opus
      24 May 2016 17: 56 New
      +3
      Quote: Corporal
      There would be more such articles on VO. To author +

      And thank you and "+".
      Unfortunately the cons (you already have anonymous 5).
      Shitting around the corner.
      I'm afraid my + will not help you.
      hi
  16. sir_obs
    sir_obs 24 May 2016 16: 25 New
    +6
    And why are they arguing?
    Nothing has changed, as Khoja Nasreddin said, pretending to be the famous sage Huseyn Gusley in the palace, when asked how he would portray a sage, he does not have knowledge. "In a dispute, it is important not to prove that you have knowledge, but to convict the enemy of ignorance." ...

    And then there we will see Mask, if it is commercially profitable, then it will fly on. And if not, no countesses and pictures will die this thing.

    Space is an expensive pleasure, everyone wants to reduce costs. Only here is the question, is the right path chosen or not? It may be more profitable to take the path of cheaper one-time steps. After all, in order to use the already launched one, it needs to be cleaned, polished all surfaces, disassembled, tested units and assemblies, reassembled. There is no guarantee that after landing she will not receive damage that will not be noticed and at the next start everything will not be covered with a copper basin. Ultimately, the ship itself and its cargo are much more expensive than the steps.
    Wait and see.
  17. Operator
    Operator 24 May 2016 16: 36 New
    10
    The article set a minus for the desu in terms of size and method of transportation of the first Falcon stage from the Pacific to the Atlantic coast of the United States (a spaceport near Cape Canaveral).

    Indeed, all of North America is indented by multi-lane roads, but two-level interchanges rise above them, the lower dimension of which will not be missed by a wheeled conveyor with an 3,7-meter rocket tower towering above it. Yes, and block traffic on federal highways during the week of transporting oversized cargo will fly a pretty penny. Therefore, because of the disgusting logistics, Falcon is transported by rail.

    Without exception, all other first stages and fuel tanks of American launch vehicles, shown in the photo in the opinion of Anton Opus, were meaningfully produced on the Atlantic coast or on the Mississippi River, which flows into the Atlantic Ocean, which made it possible to use water transport that does not freeze in winter in differences from Russia.

    For the author of the opinion, let me remind you that in "bast" Russia, in contrast to "innovative" America, 30 years ago, the issue of transporting oversized cargo of the space industry at any distance was radically solved by building the An-225 Mriya.

    No one denies the role of American innovative engineers Edison, the Wright brothers, Browning, etc. But a native African American and an American businessman by calling have not yet invented anything but application programs. Therefore, rejection arises when he climbs with a pork snout (a compilation of old solutions and stupid reusability) in the Kalash line, presented by Goddart, Korolev, Brown, Chelomei, Lozino-Lozinsky and many other engineers, and not businessmen.
    1. opus
      24 May 2016 18: 10 New
      +2
      Quote: Operator
      roads, but two-level interchanges rise above them, the lower dimension of which will not be missed by a wheeled conveyor with an 3,7-meter rocket tower towering above it.


      writes a person who:
      1. I have never been to America
      2.does not have a driver’s license (categories C, D, E - for sure)
      3. I have never transported a single oversized load in my life.
      I will explain:
      1. The roundabout (if it doesn’t pass along the height) passes along the TOP, not under, but over the bridge
      2..When the 250 truck was transported across Germany for one state-owned corporation known to us, the program plans everything in the licensing system.
      But the coolest special trailer. Automatically, when approaching the bridge (tunnel), according to Gps, it sank onto the roadbed. The clearance 4-10mm passed on ROLL bearings, slipped under the bridge, then onto the wheels and forward.
      The speed is steadily slow (tea bearings) .. The road before this was blown off, washed off.
      3. Oversize in Europe and the United States is carried at night and on weekends, when the traffic is low, for 3 bands lane 2 right
      1. Operator
        Operator 24 May 2016 19: 06 New
        +1
        This was written by a person who:
        - was in America (on business trips for public services) about ten times;
        - has a driver's license;
        - participated in the development of rules for the transportation of oversized railways by transport.

        Road transport is not intended for the regular transportation of oversized cargo. In addition, it also imposes restrictions on the size of goods (on bearings under the standard flyover, you can drag a product with a maximum of 5-meter diameter, and you can climb up to the interchange with no more than 36 meters of length). Therefore, the six-engine An-225 is the most effective solution - all sorts of four-engine Boeing and Airbus are not suitable for it.

        In the meantime, the first stage of the Falcon for short distances on public roads carry so
        1. opus
          24 May 2016 19: 49 New
          +3
          Quote: Operator
          In the meantime, the first stage of the Falcon for short distances on public roads carry so


          Offset
          but for long?
          On long as
          "Facking sews His majesties railway gauge, faking sews 3,7 meters)
          The photo will be, and the video?
        2. opus
          24 May 2016 20: 38 New
          +4
          Quote: Operator
          Road transport is not intended for the regular transportation of oversized cargo.

          Yes ...
          The operator is operating




          spaceX - 4K - 100% Booster Transport Uncut - JCSAT14 05-14-2016



          What a bad luck.

          Mouzon classes !!!!


          Train?

          -----------------------------------
          Video then on the train Falcon9 will be?
          the writer Konanykhin (and Co. Rus№ I don’t remember which one) would have pleased.
          can a photo (in the editor to nammonat there?)

          Unions send to Guinea (recommend)
          1. iwind
            iwind 24 May 2016 20: 52 New
            0
            Quote: opus
            Mouzon classes !!!!

            That's what you post Hollywood bully ??? It was clearly written to you that SpeaX took the engine from the lunar module (although it’s strange how it took if they did not fly).
            And then it turns out that they have not such weak resource tests and tests ... not exactly a fake.

            Seriously, I can’t look into the future of what they will succeed. But they have perseverance, they go to their goal step by step.
            It seems to me that just a lot of people simply did not know about it and then suddenly appeared spaceX, although a lot of work was done with many failures and errors.
            1. opus
              24 May 2016 22: 24 New
              +3
              Quote: iwind
              SpeaX took the engine from the lunar module (although it’s strange how he took it if they did not fly).

              Come on, that did not fly. I write: Huliwood is all solid.
              А
              Quote: Konanykhin and Co.
              handed over old NASO zanyhanyh DRAWINGS

              But here you are, as a person to whom UDMH and AT burned shoes ....
              You can explain how from the DRAWINGS
              Remote control: TRW-1 LM Descent Engine (LMDE), specific impulse: 311 s (3050 Н • s / kg), thrust: 41.9 kN.
              TC: Aerozine 50 / Nitrogen Oxide (N 2 O 4).
              Specific impulse: 290 s (2840 N • s / kg)
              Weight: 113 kg, chamber pressure: 7.00 bar, thrust-to-weight ratio: 31,4338235294118 Oxidizer to fuel: 1,59.
              Burn time: 322 s.

              Smondyachit
              Merlin 1D: kerosene + oxygen, Thrust: Vacuum: 741 kN, Sea level (current): 654 kN, 9.7 MPa (97 atm-97 bar), operating time = 162 s.
              Falcon 9 v1.1: Dry weight of the step - about 23 t (about 26 t for (R) -modification).
              here's how?
              Heat flow to the wall, special steels, special rubber bands, T flashes (Aerozine 50 + AT self-igniting), heat capacity (cooling). Nozzle expansion (LMDE VACUUMBOX), and Merlin aspirated!
              Sawed a nozzle or what? A hacksaw?
              Pressure in the COP again: 7 atmospheres and 97!

              More order!
              I guess I'm dumb ...
        3. opus
          27 May 2016 01: 50 New
          +1
          Quote: Operator
          . In addition, it also imposes restrictions on the size of goods (on bearings under the standard flyover, you can drag maximum 5 meter diameter product, and climb the denouement no more than 36 meters long).

          1. If something, then the Falcon-9 diameter 3,7 m, in the "widest" part

          3,6 m body, but not the point

          2.36m? figure out of my head?




          what kind of "solutions" such?

          or such?

          in which country?
          Truck Size and Weight
          http://ops.fhwa.dot.gov/Freight/sw/index.htm
          Is there a roundabout and 36 meters?
  18. RedBaron
    RedBaron 24 May 2016 16: 39 New
    +5
    The fact is that for the sake of cheap pluses, facts and even characteristics that are easy to verify are distorted among the misrepresented. That, as it were, does not add to the site of trust ....
  19. Arct
    Arct 24 May 2016 16: 54 New
    -5
    Stopped reading after the first refutation. The author writes about a rail gauge - a dismantler about anything, but not about a rail gauge. After that, there is no desire to read this stupid opus. Either learn how to criticize or blame Ekho Moskvy - they love such eye-catchers there ...
    1. opus
      24 May 2016 18: 01 New
      +3
      Quote: Arkt
      parser about anything, but not about the railway.

      In America, they don’t carry LVs on railway, practically. WHAT IS NOT?
      Repeat for visually impaired.
      So transport Falcon 9

      Where is the "fakingshiit King of the Railway" size 3,7 meters?
      fool
      Show me the Falkon 9 "shiking faculty" on the railway platform !!!?
      I "hangar" and showed the proton.
      But we have it!
      Quote: Arkt
      Either learn how to criticize or blame Ekho Moskvy - they love such eye-catchers there ...

      1.At least you need to read what you comment, criticize


      2.Do not say what to do and I won’t send you, I won’t tell you where to go
  20. Tusv
    Tusv 24 May 2016 17: 10 New
    0
    SpaceX is headquartered in a suburb of Hawthorne in California, USA.
    The large plant that was previously used to build the Boeing 747 fuselage now houses the main office, the MCC and the SpaceX rocket plant.

    I looked vidyuha. Does the author seriously think that it is delivered from California to Florida in this way? Forest Gump would probably run back and forth 4 times. The speed is amazing. Two times less than a walking step. Or does Ilon have a secret direct route from the Pacific to the Atlantic?
    1. opus
      24 May 2016 18: 03 New
      +3
      Quote: Tusv
      Does the author seriously think that it is delivered from California to Florida in this way?

      commenting - video to the studio, how to deliver.
      maybe a photo?
      I not only "her" I and Saturn5 and others gave.
      1. Tusv
        Tusv 24 May 2016 18: 15 New
        0
        Quote: opus
        commenting - video to the studio, how to deliver.
        maybe a photo?

        Oh, please. photo pepelatsa similar to beluga whales. It is somehow more realistic than a road train from coast to coast.
        Thank. half an hour ago corrected
        1. opus
          24 May 2016 18: 30 New
          +1
          Quote: Tusv
          Thank. half an hour ago corrected

          you are welcome.
          I have not "corrected" anything
          will the video be?
          Quote: Tusv
          It is somehow more realistic than a road train from coast to coast.

          I wrote about the air.
          I can not only "Belukha" but also how they drove the Saturn-5 stages
          Not the point.
          Falcon driven cars (car + water), which I wrote about))
          1. Tusv
            Tusv 24 May 2016 18: 51 New
            +1
            Quote: opus
            Falcon driven cars (car + water), which I wrote about))

            You disappointed me :( From California to Florida 2 thousand 705 miles. 884 hours on foot. And the road train is twice as long. Although I’m lying, you can only move at night. Sorry, but cars + water do not fit in my head. At the end of the trip, the Falcon is simple must it turn into a golden statue, or did you personally transport this bandura personally?
            1. iwind
              iwind 24 May 2016 19: 04 New
              +2
              Quote: Tusv
              Quote: opus
              Falcon driven cars (car + water), which I wrote about))

              You disappointed me :( From California to Florida 2 thousand 705 miles. 884 hours on foot. And the road train is twice as long. Although I’m lying, you can only move at night. Sorry, but cars + water do not fit in my head. At the end of the trip, the Falcon is simple must it turn into a golden statue, or did you personally transport this bandura personally?

              What's the problem? he is being taken by road train. And why at night?
              1. Tusv
                Tusv 24 May 2016 19: 17 New
                -4
                Quote: iwind
                What's the problem? he is being taken by road train. And why at night?

                Convinced. But the video is only part of the stage
                1. iwind
                  iwind 24 May 2016 19: 27 New
                  +2
                  Quote: Tusv
                  Quote: iwind
                  What's the problem? he is being taken by road train. And why at night?

                  Convinced. But the video is only part of the stage
                  . I will believe you in words that there is no second stage ... somehow I did not have time to count the meters. But here there are no problems, too, the second stage and / or PN can gather in revenge.
                  Like many do.
                2. opus
                  24 May 2016 19: 54 New
                  +5
                  Quote: Tusv
                  But the video is only part of the stage


                  Part of the step or still FIRST STEP, the most oversized!
                  assembled, a package of LRE and 9 pieces seems to be ...
                  Quote: Tusv
                  from California to Florida 2 Thousands 705 miles. 884 hours on foot. A road train is twice as long.

                  belay
                  on foot ... on foot ... I give a grudge.
                  Yes on video how speed?
                  Quote: Tusv
                  884 hours on foot. A road train is twice as long.


                  There is no 85 kilometers per hour.
                  Not a fig.
                  according to your logic, do you move at a speed of 170 km / h?

                  Quote: Tusv
                  But the video is only part of the stage

                  Do you need the whole rocket assembly?
                  and preferably seasoned?
                  Then you here:

                  He knows how to carry tons of additional cargo on a tractor, and moreover.
                  And it will help that rocket fuel does not sour ...

                  / Only why the heck is it necessary to carry an 2x stage missile in full, and if three stages) - xs fool
            2. opus
              24 May 2016 19: 13 New
              +3
              Quote: Tusv
              A road train is twice as long.

              Gee-gee, gee.
              I’ll be transported 7700 from 94315 Straubing, 317,940 tons of general cargo.
              head under 50 tons, full not overall, with 2 days of travel under 900km.

              And by July (God willing LR1350), there is a section of 48 m, I will just try out the "fucking shit" pasta to carry
              Quote: Tusv
              You can move only at night.

              3 and bands are possible during the day (peak hours restrictions). Not Saturday until 21: 00 Sunday.
              With accompaniment (if state) is possible.

              need to stand



              You Schenker or Gruber -L (better Spain, they are sitting on Taurus) to give contacts to the heads of the oversized department. They photo you, video will fall asleep

              The density of cars in Germany (the whole, not the city) is the largest in the world.
              Quote: Tusv
              . 884 hours on foot.

              Well, if you carry on a cart, I sympathize with you
  21. Moonsund
    Moonsund 24 May 2016 17: 19 New
    +8
    I do not understand why everyone on the VO "should only walk in formation." There are two people, with two different opinions, spent their time, wrote interesting (even to me, who does not understand anything in this matter) materials. Thanks to both, you shouldn't slip to "who is the co.z.l.?". In a dispute, truth is born, and if it benefits the Cause, let them dare. It was interesting, much more interesting than the posts of "Psakidura", although she really is a Fool! wink
  22. Old
    Old 24 May 2016 17: 20 New
    +6
    Thanks to the author and the editors for printing this article. It turned out very revealingly. It can be useful to get acquainted with different points of view. The request to all authors not to break into obscene language, there are not many sites left untouched.
  23. Jackking
    Jackking 24 May 2016 17: 23 New
    +2
    Spears have been breaking for a long time - mask clever / mask rogue. But wait - wasn’t the main skate of the space-x project that the launch will be cheap due to the reuse of the 1st stage with engines? But the author describes the technology of delivery instead of the technology of using re-stages. and let Konanykhin be wrong in some technological issues, but the point is not that! THE STEP IS UNFITABLE FOR REPEATED USE !!! And that's it. And then from this article we get - the mask is smart, SGA has a bunch of airfields, rivers and fields, the previous author is not entirely smart. And with this fog the main essence is covered - today the technology used by the mask is unsuitable, and the rest is all the details ...
    1. opus
      24 May 2016 18: 04 New
      +2
      Quote: Jackking
      not that! STEP UNUSELABLE FOR RE-USE !!!

      reported the day before yesterday, will fly
      1. iwind
        iwind 24 May 2016 18: 34 New
        +1
        Quote: opus
        reported the day before yesterday, will fly

        About all the same, they published an article.
        It’s a pity now a complete park (a lot of work) there is no time to participate.
        But what is the truth? Your article is more difficult to understand than a pasta monster and this is its problem :(.
        For objectivity, you still need to wait for the flight. I put on
        flight 26 June 16, 2016, ABS-2A, Eutelsat 117 West B (ex-Satmex 9)
        flight 28 July 2016 FormoSat-5 SHERPA
        flight 29 July 2016 Amos-6
        flight 30 July 2016 Amos-6 Iridium NEXT
        Photo landing .... photographer is cool.
        http://www.zgrethphoto.com/Learn/Exp/Tut/SpaceX
        1. opus
          24 May 2016 19: 23 New
          +2
          Quote: iwind
          About all the same, they published an article.

          trimmed slightly

          Mouzon removed

          anyway
          Quote: iwind
          But what is the truth? Your article is more difficult to understand than a pasta monster and this is its problem :(.

          You will not please everyone ....
          Proto-Ukrainians consider-a little evidence base,
          or:

          in CHNUMX they wrote where the links were, here in
          "Pasta Monster Ilona Mask, or the logical outcome of the adventure"

          everything is technical there, on the shelves, the evidence base is not lame, with a twinkle ...

          And let me give you for correction? wink
          Quote: iwind
          For objectivity, you still need to wait for the flight.

          1. iwind
            iwind 24 May 2016 19: 38 New
            0
            Quote: opus
            And let me give you for correction?

            of me as a corrector ..... When I wrote dis, my corrector howled from me as a beluga.
            But overall, I wanted to write to you, but the work was wow. And so forward look, if there is an opportunity.
            By the way, I read your reported "cold toy stars". One of my favorite books. I like the end. What's the matter with the galaxy? You need to walk your dog (friend).
            1. opus
              24 May 2016 19: 47 New
              +4
              Quote: iwind
              And so forward look, if there is an opportunity.
              By the way, I read your reported "cold toy stars".

              +

              Read to the holes.

              Can you "slip" these




              ?
              Well nothing belay

              As a wife gets me ("take out the tree") - I take it out and start reading.
              Vzhiiik ... and I can sit on a computer even with a bang

              Quote: iwind
              You need to walk your dog (friend).

              It is necessary Schaub the dog walked the man.
          2. Pereira
            Pereira 24 May 2016 20: 46 New
            +4
            Greetings, Anton.
            The second part turned out to be more interesting.
            Indeed, your opponent has jambs. In this sense, much has been noticed correctly. Although, if he intends to answer, it can also be convincing. But it will no longer matter.
            I am not a specialist in rocketry and cannot properly appreciate a number of technical issues.
            But in a position to assess the overall feasibility of the project. Will there be real or direct returns from the project?
            With an abundance of curious information without exaggeration, this question remained unanswered.
            1. opus
              25 May 2016 12: 22 New
              +1
              Quote: Pereira
              The second part turned out to be more interesting.

              prvt. It would be better if they were 2 in 1, maybe in xNUMX a lot about the opponent gobbled up
              !
              Quote: Pereira
              the opponent has jambs.


              I would say mowing

              One "fakingshit railway dimension 3,7 meters" is worth it

              and from TRW-1 (drawings) heptyl acid kerosene oxygen fill

              belay
              Quote: Pereira
              Although, if he intends to answer, it can also be convincing.

              he has already changed his point of view.
              take your time hear out:
              http://radiovesti.ru/episode/show/episode_id/39538
              Quote: Pereira
              Will there be real or direct returns from the project?

              see links: launches
              will be. The world of money by Adam Smith. so they live
  24. voldemar_k
    voldemar_k 24 May 2016 17: 34 New
    +4
    I hasten to explain to the defender of the "pasta monster Elon Musk" that the previous speaker (Dmitry Konanykhin), who in a mocking tone narrated about the "inveterate inventor", with his imposing style only wanted to convey that returning chemical-fueled rockets are a dead-end path of development. As an exercise for designers, this may work, but the idea itself is flawed in its essence, no matter how exciting it looks.
    The returned blocks were unprofitable in the days of the Shuttles, and even more so now, when the price of components, in the light of the development of technologies, tends to a minimum. What is Musk trying to get back? An empty "macaroni" with a huge windage, low relative weight (compared to the start), with engines that cannot be reused. All this can be landed only in calm, windless weather, because any unexpected gust of wind will put this "bucket" on the platform, as evidenced by the statistics of successful "ocean-going".
    And the graphs, drawings, of course, look interesting and beautiful, by the way, the diameter of the central tank of the first stage of the "Proton" is 4100 mm, the length is 20 m, and this is being transported by rail to Kazakhstan. So to belittle the merits of the Fatherland, and instead extol the "successes" of the lucky rogues, poking out other people's ideas, is not worth it.
    So I put the author a big minus for ignorance of the materiel.
    1. opus
      24 May 2016 18: 48 New
      +4
      Quote: voldemar_k
      with his imposing style, I wanted to convey only that the returnable rockets using chemical fuel are a dead end.

      sorry I'm dumb, in Russian I read with a dictionary
      "fucking shit 3,7 meters"
      "put everyone in cancer, oh engineer"
      maybe my eyesight is bad.
      Not a word about chemical fuel.
      question and you yourself read?
      "Pasta Monster Ilona Mask, or the logical outcome of the adventure"
      Question No.2
      Why do ours make the Angara launch vehicle? -Hz .. Probably not read
      "Pasta Monster Ilona Mask, or the logical outcome of the adventure"

      Yes, this is (in Ч1)

      development for the "hangar" launch vehicle

      Quote: voldemar_k
      And the graphs, drawings, of course, look interesting and beautiful, by the way, the diameter of the central tank of the first stage of the "Proton" is 4100 mm, the length is 20 m, and this is transported by rail to Kazakhstan

      and I have what was written?
      not 4,1?
      There, the corrector removed the excess

      Railway Container: 4,7 meters if not forgotten
      Even the song "Mirages" was ("commercial break")

      Quote: voldemar_k
      So to belittle the merits of the Fatherland, and instead extol the "successes" of the lucky rogues, poking out other people's ideas, is not worth it.

      1. Where did I belittle it? Poke? but to lie to myself, I don’t kakl, it’s to the jumping "non-brothers"
      2. Well, at least it's worth it, and then +


      Quote: voldemar_k
      So I put the author a big minus for ignorance of the materiel.

      but honestly.
      can you enlighten about the machast?
      I was looking for combat launches in the steppes of Kazakhstan, I was looking for fallen steps with a radiometer, I stood with my foot on the Energia vm.
      and you?
  25. abarth
    abarth 24 May 2016 17: 47 New
    0
    Quote: opus
    Quote: abarth
    Yes, I have not read either about "pasta" or about "no pasta" parts 1. and 2.

    Sense to leave comments?
    Do you need +?
    Keep



    I don’t need a plus, Ilon Reeves Mask makes money on projects in the initial stage ... how the buyer will deal with this is not his business, so the opinion of how it will fly, or how it will not fly is certainly not interesting for the target audience, it's just money)))

    as with the money under this program ... they say go to the bank and take money at interest))) .... this guy collected interest-free and unlimited money on Tesla, on prepayments.

    an article about pasta is a seed, and the rest is to popularize the project. Or maybe the project itself, like SDI, lasers did not fly into space ??? diversion of resources, the enemy. write how we fly, we will look)
    1. Vadim237
      Vadim237 24 May 2016 18: 12 New
      +3
      Already flies - and not just once or twice, but already 24 launches
      1. yehat
        yehat 25 May 2016 14: 05 New
        +1
        launches - 24
        is flying? um ... i would call a number less than 24 laughing
  26. Nix1986
    Nix1986 24 May 2016 18: 35 New
    +3
    I will join the pluses. Impressed by the desire of a person not to sag in the courchevel with whores, but to promote progress by tesla and space x. Would the course be the same and tesla 3 would cost the same $ 30k planned ... oh dreams.
    1. voyaka uh
      voyaka uh 24 May 2016 21: 45 New
      +2
      It seems to me that Musk is just a special case. Russians have any private success
      Entrepreneur causes bouts of anger and envy. Success can be, in understanding
      Russians, only among states, but not among capitalists. This is a consequence of local historical
      experience based on "statehood".
      1. Vadim237
        Vadim237 24 May 2016 22: 33 New
        -1
        And it is true.
        1. mav1971
          mav1971 25 May 2016 00: 36 New
          +2
          Quote: Vadim237
          And it is true.


          True, true, but each has its own. and there is an explanation for this.

          This is what can be interpreted as "professional deformation".

          95% of our citizens do not know a single businessman in our country who has achieved success in business by honest work and their brains.
          They have no examples.
          Those who tried to be honest either crushed or drowned.
          And whoever made a deal with bandits, cops, officials - is no longer honest.
          All business in our country is criminal.
          Directly or indirectly.
          So it was in 90, So it was in the zero, and now.
          So it seems to people. that there are no such people.
          1. yehat
            yehat 25 May 2016 14: 17 New
            +1
            Do you think the Mask business is honest?
            he is legitimate - yes. But honest? I would not rush with this answer
      2. mav1971
        mav1971 25 May 2016 00: 03 New
        +1
        Quote: voyaka uh
        It seems to me that Musk is just a special case. Russians have any private success
        Entrepreneur causes bouts of anger and envy. Success can be, in understanding
        Russians, only among states, but not among capitalists. This is a consequence of local historical
        experience based on "statehood".


        Not everyone.
        if a person really saw how this or that business really works, understands all internal business processes, there will be no envy and anger.
        There will be an understanding!
        I have respect for both Mask and Jobs and Gates.
        Because they were / are drivers of progress.

        Similar.
        Korolev - invented nothing, but what result he "did".
        Kalashnikov is the same.
        There are many of them - it’s too late to recall now ...
      3. NordUral
        NordUral 25 May 2016 00: 59 New
        +2
        Warrior, you are mistaken.
      4. yehat
        yehat 25 May 2016 14: 15 New
        +1
        do not agree. most are outraged not by the private owner (yes, the flag is in his hands), but by what he claims to be success. The story is disgustingly reminiscent of stories about effective projects - "allocate the most profitable site, the rest into the furnace", "steal R&D and save on it", cheat with the cost of launches, etc. The PR style is also outraged. Inventions made many years ago are recognized as outstanding innovations personally made by Musk, who did not eat or sleep and, like Edison, has 999999 patents.
        In fact, everything is much more prosaic and infuriates people that they lie in the eyes, that this is not so. And it's not just about SpaceX, this also applies to other Musk projects, even recognized as successful payment systems (oh my god, with the help of e-mail, which worked for 20 years before) and Tesla Motors.
        1. aiw
          aiw 25 May 2016 15: 17 New
          0
          Well, tell me, who before the Mask planted rocket propelled rocket stages in the Earth's atomosphere on offshore platforms. Or who before Mask made seiric electric cars of similar characteristics.

          Compare the convenience (and security) of PayPal and email.

          Gugol also did not come up with anything new in your opinion - a long time ago there were kiosks in Moscow with the inscription "Information", catalogs in libraries and all sorts of "yellow pages" Talmuds.
          1. yehat
            yehat 26 May 2016 12: 38 New
            +1
            You are a victim of Wikipedia. in your post a whole series of retold lies.
            1. aiw
              aiw 26 May 2016 12: 46 New
              +1
              I asked you some very specific questions - I did not make statements, but only asked questions, mind you!

              Instead of answering, you accused me of lying. Is everything all right with your logic?

              - Who discovered America?
              - You're lying!

              belay

              If we consider your answer as uh ... the answer, then "vysevreti" in a decent society is considered a drain. Not surprising ...
  27. Bramb
    Bramb 24 May 2016 20: 32 New
    -3
    Protect - do not protect, but until the promised is not achieved. Netuti nothing!
    This is a fact, and everything else, as well as the air shock by the opponent, is empty. Khantazii your values ​​do not have.
    I put a minus. So as not to take time from people even reading an empty headline.
    1. mav1971
      mav1971 25 May 2016 06: 44 New
      0
      Quote: Bramb
      Khantazii your values ​​do not have.


      what is the meaning of this phrase - how can you oppose?
  28. Kite
    Kite 24 May 2016 21: 34 New
    +2
    Then it came (I am tall - it comes a long time, like a giraffe):
    - Ilon is limited in the landing corridor steps. I do not know if the license either pays for miles, or for environmental damage (to the ocean), or you have to pay for closing off the water area for shipping (plop on the ship, and then shipping is dense, you will go bankrupt on the suits). And, of course, with a parachute not to get on the platform.
    - Logistics, be it not okay. Drive for 100 miles or drive for 1000 miles, but you still need to find it ... in the vast ocean. Again, money, and a lot.

    Is it more accurate to dump (i.e., not caring for a soft fit) is it cheaper? Reuse is more expensive than making a new sample
    2 development of logistic stages for cutting and transportation of "small" units and scrap by the forces of a young specialist with a small budget.
    3 about transportation: no one is going to launch from the factory site and land there? No? Then any movement of overall cargo should begin as the development of a military operation of the army scale. Even if you just need to drive along the federal highway, enter the port territory and reload onto a barge.
    I'm at a loss: what's going on there? Where maintainability requirements are justified and effortlessly feasible, they are made disposable. Where the highest reliability is required, they look for "economic" justifications for the use of used devices. Without fundamentally different, new sources of energy for levitation, you will not look at the exercises of the Americans without malice. The author of the first part did not hold back the malice. The author of the counterpart confused the first with the prosecutor and acted like a real lawyer laughing
    1. Kite
      Kite 24 May 2016 22: 20 New
      +4
      And I will add: we carry large-sized transformers, turbines for electric power plants, reactors of chemical plants. These products are not the size not less than the nodes of space rockets. They are transported each time to new addresses, and not along a permanent route. So, the author’s attacks in the direction of our transport capabilities are in vain.
    2. opus
      24 May 2016 22: 38 New
      +1
      Quote: Kite
      Is 1 more accurately dumped (i.e. not caring for a soft fit) is it cheaper?

      Will not work
      Here's a picture of the 2x channel radar of the Nizhny Novgorod Institute of Radio Engineering

      blue are the trajectories and pins are the estimated places to fall

      for the Soyuz-2.1 launch vehicle, the fall area in the Zeysky and Tyndinsky districts of the Amur Region, there last 4 th PH lateral block.

      Quote: Kite
      Reuse is more expensive than making a new sample

      no, here is the "knee" option.

      If I need to send you a base with formulas, there is a solid economy, calculations at the level of integral
      Quote: Kite
      when any movement of overall cargo must begin as the development of a military operation of the army

      only rustle is worth

      Quote: Kite
      Even if you just need to drive along the federal highway, enter the port territory and reload onto a barge.

      FIG-chase

      Quote: Kite
      The author of the response part confused the first with the prosecutor and acted as a real lawyer

      I repent ... a couple of times I appeared in court (defending myself without lawyers, both in the AP and in economic disputes.
      1. Kite
        Kite 24 May 2016 23: 05 New
        +1
        Will not work? Or didn’t they insist on such a task? Well, and so on. Not fig-chase. And in minutes, the graphs are for tracks without obstacles (slopes, bridges, .....).
  29. Vitali-46
    Vitali-46 24 May 2016 21: 57 New
    0
    Quote: just explo
    there is a real scam.

    Will you name me at least one world car manufacturer that would create an electric car similar in technical characteristics to Tesla ?! I assure you there are none! In addition, Audi has officially announced that it is developing a competitor to Tesla (I assume that this is the future Audi ku 6) Porsche also stated that by 2020 will release an electric car .. Mercedes BMWs also rushed in pursuit of Tesla .. And these are companies with more than a century of history! And how old is Tesla's company?! And you say a scam ...
    1. Kite
      Kite 24 May 2016 23: 16 New
      +4
      Quote: Vitaliy-46
      similar in technical specifications to Tesla ?!

      What TX impressed you so much? The fact that you need to charge 40 kWh for 4 hours and go no further than 100 km from the outlet? (mileage back and forth in the amount of 200 km). The design can be pulled to the TX, but in this regard, the leaders are different. Car computerization impressed? Then the computer should free the owner of the car from the control.
      The price for a family sedan impressed me. And a security issue has arisen. How chemically and fire-explosion proof the battery is, what damage the OS will create in an accident.
      1. mav1971
        mav1971 25 May 2016 06: 53 New
        0
        Quote: Kite

        The price for a family sedan impressed me. And a security issue has arisen. How chemically and fire-explosion proof the battery is, what damage the OS will create in an accident.


        Well read it.
        In "these your Internet" - aren't there hundreds of blogs of Tesla owners, incl. and Russian speakers?
        Tesla lovers' clubs are also in the Russian Federation and the USA. Full of cars in the Russian Federation is already driving. Itself saw at least 3-4 times.
        On Drive 2 - well, for sure there is.
        Since the question arose, then find the answer to it.
        1. Kite
          Kite 25 May 2016 07: 44 New
          +1
          Quote: mav1971
          Well read it.
          ........ do not exist hundreds of blogs of Tesla owners

          -Thanks, lover of blogs, for the advice in finding accurate information. laughing
          1. mav1971
            mav1971 25 May 2016 20: 11 New
            0
            Quote: Kite
            Quote: mav1971
            Well read it.
            ........ do not exist hundreds of blogs of Tesla owners

            -Thanks, lover of blogs, for the advice in finding accurate information. laughing


            It is immediately clear that you are "complete zero" in the search.
            But with an intellectual aplomb.

            Blogs of "fans" are good because on these very blogs, by the forces of these very bloggers, almost all available information is meticulously and concentrated.
            Including about the accident.
            if you did not know then know.
            and pathos with smaller emoticons in that. what you don’t understand.
        2. Kite
          Kite 25 May 2016 08: 01 New
          +1
          By the way, is the name of the company confusing - "Tesla" This is the name of the genius inventor who invented the three-phase electric motor and there are legends that he drove a car equipped with an energy source and an engine of his own design, its energy source did not need sockets at all, a gas tank did not have at all. Now, re-inventing such a source, I would be impressed. In the meantime, I see speculation on a big name.
          1. aiw
            aiw 25 May 2016 08: 48 New
            +1
            There used to be legends about the firmament of heaven, flat earth placed on a pyramid of various animals and people with dog’s heads - now there are legends about perpetual motion machines, torsion fields and the world backstage. It crushed the imagination of the people ...

            The law of conservation of energy has not yet been canceled, so the legends about super-mega-energy sources "that do not require sockets and a gas tank" are nothing more than legends. Unless, of course, this is a compact nuclear reactor, but Tesla hardly did this ...
            1. Kite
              Kite 25 May 2016 11: 42 New
              0
              Quote: aiw
              so the legends about super-mega energy sources "do not require sockets and a gas tank" are nothing more than legends

              - And you still know many legends, except for flat land on the backs of elephants swimming on the back of a turtle?
              Currently, many Tesla transformer models are self-taught, the effect is very confidently obtained, but there is no generally accepted theory (substantiation of the principles) of its operation. Like this!
              You already know about wireless power transmission when charging an iPhone. But do you know that the search for methods for wireless transmission of energy (not signals) over long distances has been going on for the second century?
              You already believe in a compact nuclear reactor. Good! There is hope, for - there is what you believe in (exists in your ideas).
              1. Kite
                Kite 25 May 2016 12: 02 New
                0
                And again, an addendum: is the idea of ​​a compact nuclear reactor no longer scary?
                Do you think a high-energy battery (at a price like gold) is made of inert materials?
              2. aiw
                aiw 25 May 2016 12: 47 New
                +1
                You know, I was taught at the physics department that science is not a religion, here I believe / I do not believe it does not work.

                Tesla's transformer does not violate the law of conservation of energy, and with the theory there are all the rules. What does this transformer have to do with an energy source "requiring neither sockets nor a gas tank" only Wamu with your beliefs knows.

                About wireless power transmission with t.z. theory, too, nothing interesting, there are interesting engineering and technological solutions.

                A compact nuclear reactor is again more likely an engineering and technological problem, which by the way has been partially solved (all sorts of RTGs), which has its own very stringent (theoretical, i.e., irresistible) limitations.

                About the battery at all I did not understand what you mean ...

                Do you believe that there are miraculous prodigies that violate the law of conservation of energy? It's up to you, but what does this have to do with reality?
  30. Vadim237
    Vadim237 24 May 2016 22: 39 New
    +1
    In the competition between the United States and Russia, it is necessary to compare what they and we have created in the space sector since 2000 - this comparison will not be in our favor.
  31. ZAV69
    ZAV69 25 May 2016 00: 00 New
    +1
    Articles niochem. Musk made a bandura based on which the LRE is almost a century old. And almost everything was squeezed out and long time ago. That's when the photon or gravitational pull appears then there will be a breakthrough. And so ......
  32. NordUral
    NordUral 25 May 2016 00: 28 New
    +2
    The author, you are right in many respects, but led us away from the main question - the cost of re-launches.
    По этой ссылке: http://topwar.ru/engine/go.php?url=aHR0cDovL2dhemV0YS56bi51YS9TT0NJRVRZL3NhbWF5Y
    V9ib2xzaGF5YV90YXluYV9zb3ZldHNrb3lfcmFrZXRub3lfdGVobmlraS5odG1s
    A classic example of a mishmash of truth and falsehood.
    1. opus
      25 May 2016 12: 26 New
      +1
      Quote: NordUral
      The author, you are right in many respects, but led us away from the main question - the cost of re-launches.

      1.And who raised such a question? You are the first, so I’ll try to answer.
      2. In general, I wanted to answer vyser Konanyshin. In my opinion, I managed
      Quote: NordUral
      By this link

      the link didn’t open, send the screen of the article to the PM
  33. Taoist
    Taoist 25 May 2016 11: 12 New
    +2
    I’ll say what, in polemic enthusiasm we rush from one extreme to another ... As if with water and a child not to splash out ...
    I seem to be an engineer (operator, not a designer), they say he was not bad ... But in business (in private) it has been a long time already ... And all these "marketing games" when the client is not a tool but a "nameplate" is sold ... studied well.

    There are a lot of questions here, a lot, what exactly is "innovation" and what PR is very important to understand ... But let's at least be mutually polite.

    IMHO - I don’t believe the mask either ... he has very strange "solutions" - constantly trying to "scratch his left heel over his right shoulder" ...
  34. Taoist
    Taoist 25 May 2016 11: 52 New
    +1
    By the way, this is not about technology, but about exclusively the personality and true history of the "genius". Suggestive ...

    http://www.politonline.ru/interpretation/22886323.html
    1. opus
      25 May 2016 12: 29 New
      +1
      Quote: Taoist
      By the way, this is not about technology, but about exclusively the personality and true history of the "genius". ...

      It is taken from here.

      http://rusvesna.su/future/1464100651

      Quote: Taoist
      Suggests thoughts ...


      whatever "leads" always see who the author is: Ruslan V. Karmanov

      look for him in google:

      Fuuu. I won’t even open the page, you can get so dirty about it that you won’t wash yourself.
      He would censor work ...
      1. iwind
        iwind 25 May 2016 12: 36 New
        +1
        Quote: opus
        It is taken from here.

        http://rusvesna.su/future/1464100651

        Quote: opus
        Fuuu. I won’t even open the page, you can get so dirty about it that you won’t wash yourself.

        I'm generally shocked by such a reaction in Runet and in Russia from spacex. It’s like a whole propaganda campaign began on the slander of SpeaX and Ilona, ​​and it started only a month or two ago ....
        And before that they were silent?
        1. aiw
          aiw 25 May 2016 12: 51 New
          0
          It would be possible to build a conspiracy theory, kremlebots and the Kremlin's long hand ... but "one should not try to explain with malicious intent what can be explained by simple human stupidity" (c).

          Just recently, Musk managed to successfully splash down, and immediately the screams "we said that this would not work" changed to "well, it's still not practical." Simple psychology of uryakalok, the contrast with our Hangara is too great ...
        2. Taoist
          Taoist 25 May 2016 13: 13 New
          +2
          Why were they silent? I immediately said that this venture "stinks" ... just someone wrote a "perky" article, so the "soul to heaven" rushed ... Otherwise, everything was clear with electric vehicles and other "project of the century" .. ...
          1. iwind
            iwind 25 May 2016 13: 19 New
            0
            Quote: Taoist
            And so it was all clear with electric vehicles and other "project of the century" ...

            What is clear? Cars are for sale. A rocket flies immeet commercial orders for a couple of years in advance.
            For example, the Proton-M market has already been depressed; it has only 3 commercial launch in 2016. and then no better.
            1. Taoist
              Taoist 25 May 2016 13: 31 New
              +1
              You can sell anything, even a piece of brick to a passerby on the street ... Aerobatics when this is done in such a way when you are joyfully and excitedly carrying money for goods that are completely unnecessary for these people ... But what does this have to do with technological progress?
              Musk's electric cars are more expensive (in terms of mileage) and cause more environmental damage than any ordinary car ... How "adequate" is the commercial launch of the Falcon? I don’t know ... little data ... Proton is of course old stuff (and, moreover, poisonous) ... but this is also not a "Punchinelle's secret" ...
              1. aiw
                aiw 25 May 2016 13: 44 New
                -1
                Mdya ... now, if our ё-mobile went and the hangar began to be massively exploited, it would be possible to discuss that in their omerik they used to hang the Negroes, but now they are spending money on all this garbage. And so, in contrast to our achievements - we would not have to mask the Mask, but learn from him how to do working things in a short time.

                Well, and about technical progress - remember, who before Mask landed such cargoes on a jet thrust in the atmosphere of the earth? Who massively made electric cars of similar characteristics?

                The Colt revolver, too, was generally far from ideal in all respects, but went down in history. Like the Ford T. And how at first they branded prahody and ships with an iron hull (and after all they branded it for that)! How creepy the first steam locomotives were!
        3. opus
          25 May 2016 21: 44 New
          +1
          Quote: iwind
          And before that they were silent?

          everything is simple:


          link.

          But somehow it is necessary to make excuses that we rested on our laurels in the form of a monopolist after the last Shuttle flight.
          Rested, rested, rested, repaired offices, bought good cars.
          Did anyone think about pH?
      2. Taoist
        Taoist 25 May 2016 13: 16 New
        +1
        Well, in this case (and in all the others), the personality of the author offends me a little ... But the fact that Musk is a "salesman" and is never an engineer can be seen with the naked eye ...
        1. aiw
          aiw 25 May 2016 14: 11 New
          0
          The mask did not need to be an engineer. The mask needed to organize the process of developing a new wunderwaffle - and he coped brilliantly with this.

          Tell you how the development works with us? There is a Contractor - an organization with a legendary Soviet past that managed to keep the team in the 90s and even do something new, competitive, on a global level. There is a Customer - a state corporation with a larger pile of dough, which (especially under the conditions of sanctions) what the Contractor does is extremely necessary.

          After thinking a couple of years, Zachachik decides to order a new child prodigy from the Contractor, and announces a tender. General Director Zachachik, a man of great mind, decides that it would be nice to make two child prodigies at once within the framework of one tender, so that he would get a kind of hybrid with a hedgehog. The second child prodigy does not relate to the Contractor’s activities, but the Customer believes that two should be done in one - innovation!

          As a result, the Contractor wins the tender - another organization with a glorious Soviet past and highly respected leadership in the present. Everything is in shock - in the meantime, it turns out that the Contractor cannot make any of the ordered items. After several months of undercover struggle, the Contractor takes the Contractor for subcontracting at half price.

          The contractor from his money begins to pay a normal salary to a highly qualified team of developers, and she makes a prodigy for the agreed period. During this time, the Contractor demonstrates to the Customer its complete incompetence, since all reports of the Contractor go through it, and the Contractor adds any heresy to the reports. At the same time, the Customer is undergoing personnel shifts, all participants are changing legal entities due to the high stability in the country ... oddly enough, a penny does not reach the Contractor.

          As a result, the Customer decides that he has changed his mind and wants to terminate the contract, or maybe not ... he needs a prodigy, but sanctions. It takes another year to think.

          This is the real (typical) history of R&D in the Russian Federation. Did you want to say something about the Mask?
  35. Operator
    Operator 25 May 2016 14: 08 New
    0
    In the News / Opinions section of the topwar.ru portal, an article by the Federal News Agency dated May 24, 2016 was published today - "Interview: Dmitry Konanykhin about the" pasta monster "Ilona Mask seriously".
    What is called not in the eyebrow, but in the eye am
    Dmitry Konanykhin is a graduate of the Faculty of Power Engineering with a degree in Low Temperature Engineering and Physics, Moscow State Technical University named after Bauman, since 1993 at NPO Cryogenmash (department of storage systems for cryogenic propellants and refueling of launch vehicles), a participant in the construction of the Indian Sriharikot cosmodrome, the international floating cosmodrome Sea Launch and the Russian project Angara.
    1. opus
      26 May 2016 00: 10 New
      +1
      Quote: Operator
      What is called not in the eyebrow, but in the eye

      the main thing is that without:
      Quote: Author Dmitry Konanykhin

      THREE WHOLE SEVEN TEN facsinch meters. That is all you can. Do you understand? You Lord of the USA cancer put allare forced to reckon with the railway gauge.

      brilliant promoter which has supplied hundreds of thousands of specialists with cancer, - from th engineer up to four-star generals, from the PR girl to the darn banker from the Bank Which is better to forget


      1. Be patient, read at last vyser

      Pasta Monster Ilona Mask, or the logical result of the adventure
      link (poke here):
      http://topwar.ru/95392-makaronnyy-monstr-ilona-maska-ili-zakonomernyy-itog-avant



      yury.html

      Or on his page (poke here) ::
      https://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=1128071823923229&id=1000016126



      75483


      TOTALLY !! Oh please!
      2. Listen to the end, his "fluffy interview on FM news (May 20) (poke here fool fool fool ):
      http://radiovesti.ru/episode/show/episode_id/39538
      3. Well, in short flight
      Quote: Operator
      In the News / Opinions section of the portal topwar.ru today

      read
      find 3 and differences

      and relax


      Quote: Author Dmitry Konanykhin
      His Terrible Majesty - Railway Dimension. You cannot change bridges, crossings, contact lines along the entire length of the route from the factory to the launch complex, so you must enter the design into the maximum dimension of 3.7 meters.

      How did you and Dimasik put on "awesome railway gabbbarite, 37 meters" for Falcon, when will there be a video, a photo?
      Or will we wait until the first star?
      1. The comment was deleted.
        1. aiw
          aiw 26 May 2016 00: 53 New
          +2
          It is clear, i.e. love for the motherland is now measured solely on the basis of the attitude to Elon Mask.

          You know, not a single "pseudo-patriot" has done more harm to his country than you and others like you.
          1. megafair
            megafair 26 May 2016 01: 06 New
            0
            Quote: aiw
            love for the motherland is now measured solely on the basis of the attitude to Elon Mask.
            this is your conclusion, and you with such reasoning - live ...
            Quote: aiw
            not a single "pseudo-patriot" has done more harm to his country than you and others like you
            But here I agree, tk. no one except the citizens themselves can cause irreparable damage ... But one caveat - I do not praise a foreign protege, nor I sing odes to him, but "Opus'ists" ... Read this - try to challenge;) http: //topwar.ru/95737-ne-pro-makaroninu-no-pro-ilona-maska.html
            There, all the fans of "opus'ism" merge, led by "Opus" himself
            1. aiw
              aiw 26 May 2016 01: 13 New
              0
              > this is your conclusion, and you have to live with such reasoning ...

              No, it’s you who make conclusions about the degree of love for the motherland on the basis of your attitude to the Mask, not me.

              > I'm not a foreign protégé - I praise him, neither I sing odes to him, but "Opus'ists" ...

              Yes, you only demonstrate your incompetence in technical matters, the lack of critical thinking, and even violently stigmatize those who have these qualities. It would be your personal problems if you and your kind did not interfere with normal people working for the good of the very Motherland, about which you started talking about love.
              1. megafair
                megafair 26 May 2016 01: 31 New
                -2
                Tired of learning to drop outs, check out http://topwar.ru/95737-ne-pro-makaroninu-no-pro-ilona-maska.html
                There will be specific claims - write, but at the moment - your joint "opus'isms" are already bored, start thinking with your head, stop promoting "Opus'isms" ...

                PS on account of "Opus'isms" - I hope no additional explanations are needed - remember - in what topic and whom do you support ...

                PPS This "Opus" in the topic about exposing the Mask - by the way - very quickly merged;) This is for you to note;)
                1. aiw
                  aiw 26 May 2016 01: 39 New
                  -1
                  From you, the passage about underestimates sounds especially enchanting.

                  Your broken link (404 issues), however, do not bother - from the fact that you write which Mask, the Falcon will not stop flying. We are here about technology, if you have not noticed ...

                  > remember - what topic and whom do you support ...

                  This is what we are talking about. As a techie, I’m used to discuss technical arguments and technical facts. You, in the best traditions of the instructors of the regional committee on ideology, are used to discussing personalities and looking for the ideological background everywhere - science and technology are obviously too complicated for you, but I want to speak so ...
                  1. opus
                    26 May 2016 02: 07 New
                    +1
                    Quote: aiw
                    Your broken link (404 issues),

                    Yes ce
                    Ostap Petrikovich Musk: Full disclosure of the development of the "millennium genius"


                    Posted by Ruslan V. Karmanov (Advanced Training)
                    ek it intruded that
            2. opus
              26 May 2016 01: 59 New
              +1
              Quote: megafair
              and "Opus'ists" ... Read this - try to argue;)

              it’s better to be an opusist than a moral ananist ...
              Do you even read yourself?

              to you opera to the operator ...


              can you find a "fkingshit" 3,7 great railway gabbarit for Falcon, at least two?
              Or are you the Operator, or rus2012?
              Quote: megafair
              Read this - try to challenge;)

              found a link ... fool

              Ruslan V. Karmanov

              authority....
              Chinese
        2. opus
          26 May 2016 01: 54 New
          +1
          Quote: megafair
          Sad you are pseudo-patriots of a country that you do not like, from which you dream to escape, but consider your "profits" - how would it be more profitable to do it ...

          Shoot nah



          The working people of Moscow, Leningrad, Kiev and other cities of the Soviet Union demand the destruction of the vile enemies of the people YESTERDAY AT MEETINGS AND RALLINGS FOR EVENING AND NIGHT CHANGE

          Give an address where to "signal"?
          / God ... is it really "again"? /

          I don’t remember sas (young), but I heard that some tricksters also smashed cybernetics, genetics, etc., well, I wrote in principle


          Just: we are ahead of the planet in all sim sciences)

          Musical pause (about windows - We "came up with" I "liked it, default - Yes - the song is set off):
          1. aiw
            aiw 26 May 2016 07: 52 New
            0
            > / Bozhe ... is it really "again"? /

            Have you noticed? It's been a long time, but this time in the form of a farce - these comrades cannot even organize repressions normally, what can they say about the transition to the next technological order ... they only manage to steal well (those of them who managed to get into the feeder) repeat

            Their ideological Leader and Teacher, the pockmarked Father of all peoples, apparently they gnawed at the pipe completely - although most likely he is not up to smoking in a frying pan crying
  36. megafair
    megafair 26 May 2016 11: 17 New
    0
    Quote: aiw
    Your broken link (404 issues)

    Your hands are crooked, and the link is working;)
    1. aiw
      aiw 26 May 2016 11: 20 New
      -1
      Well, the directness of your hands is enough exactly for the arrangement of minuses. This is understandable, you are not able to bring technical arguments (immediately fall for lies), there are minuses and moans about the traitors of the Motherland.
      1. megafair
        megafair 30 May 2016 19: 11 New
        0
        What arguments can I give you, if the link that you could not even open, although right after you, your colleague in the position of "Opus" opened everything perfectly, and the next day everything opened perfectly for me too ...

        Here the arguments will no longer help how to explain something to a person - if he does not see point-blank and cannot read ...
  37. Arikkhab
    Arikkhab April 10 2017 11: 06 New
    0
    interesting article
    - about the profitability / viability of the idea of ​​returning LV stages - wait and see
    - about "coupled with the breadth of launch, in the end we will lose to the Americans, Chinese and Europeans ..." - this is our geographical location