Military Review

In defense of the pasta monster Ilona Mask put in a word. Part of 1

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18 May 2016 on TopWar (simultaneously or initially on: Facebook, Odnoklassniki, Twitter, LiveJournal, and so on, it does not matter) an article was published "Pasta Monster Ilona Mask, or the logical outcome of the adventure" Dmitry Konanykhin-Facebook


Author: Dmitry Konanykhin, born 20.04.1970 in Ukraine, married, two sons, grandson. For the first higher education - mechanical engineer, specialty "Technique and physics of low temperatures", MVTU im. Bauman, 1987 - 1993. Education №2: Higher Commercial School of the All-Russian Academy of Foreign Trade of the Ministry of Economic Development of Russia ...


Well "school" and school, "God be with her." MVTU stands for stands for Moscow Higher Technical school them. N.E. Bauman.

"Author of several good" Soviet "novels - about war and love, about the meaning of life and meaning stories, about our country, which was, is and will be. "

From the "autobiography":


"Since 2006, he has written four novels about the idealists of the Big Country. The first two novels -" Grandfathers and Great-Grandfathers "and" Indians and Schoolchildren "were published in Bukskriptor. I am writing the fifth novel about the engineers of the beginning of 70-x - when the "Moon Race" already completed, and before the "Buran" was still far away. "Normal is" our "patriot, you might say.

Who is interested in his work, "click" here:
Dmitry Konanykhin-Facebook

His interview (they call him a blogger here) “It’s very convenient to storm the Kremlin from a soft couch,” Dmitry Konanykhin “, the topic is“ topical ”for TopWar:


Why did I decide to unsubscribe from his article?

1. The article caused a lot of controversy, feedback. Although peculiar.

So interesting. The subject is familiar to me.
2. Author - "Baumanets", this is close to me.
3. The author "writes" the fifth novel about the engineers of the beginning of 70-x - when "Moon Race" already completed. Do not stop, write and six, about the "macaroni": belay.
4. Inadequate judgments and responses of some individuals on TopWar:


5. Style "writer" (author of the article):
Quote: Author
hire a chatty dude with shining eyes.Your clown is jumping in all media.
This is a fakinshit, planet Earth! Engineering bastard, cancer put hundreds of thousands of specialists, from the fucking engineer to the four-star generals.
Oh fucking shit ...
,

Tresh solid. I would be banned for such phraseology - 100%, but oh well, "double standards" are not only in the US State Department. That is life. If the reader likes the way they are approached:
Quote: Author
My young reader!
- This is the case of "young readers." For me, so "boy" (I use his own terminology) Dima Konanykhin refers to the victims of the exam, and the article for them. I am wrong? Right! Below I will try to prove this.
6. Many do not understand that the article was written by the author:


Quote: Author
(thanks to Alexey Shironin for the tip on the link)

7. There are so many blunders in the article that you simply cannot fix them in posts, you have to score the whole site with “bricks”, and the “young generation” too enthusiastically takes the crap for the truth:


And bloopers, or deliberate disinformation, in the wake of fake patriotism and bad-mouthing Americans (there is a reason for that, but not for Falcon) are graduated by Baumanka, which is sad.

With the foreword finished ... we start.

1.What about boron cheese?
About it:


2. "Original Source"
Navodka Chironina
Elon Musk: "The latest rocket received maximum damage due to very high speed when in contact with the landing surface " wrote Musk on Twitter.

"The booster had a speed of more than 5200 miles per hour when the top stage of the rocket detached, compared to about 4000 miles per hour during a previous mission when it was placed in a lower orbit, and SpaceX engineers said that it experienced five times more heat during entry into the atmosphere than during the last run.
Now the question is to increase the thermal protection and, possibly, to reinforce other elements of the step design so that the PH can withstand such severe effects and return in good enough condition to be reused. "

Elon Reeve Musk turns to friends: "Will our rocket be cooler than others? Or our rocket will be better than others, but at the same time, of course, without offending others, they were also good, or ..."


Dear Artem (Fregate) - this is not the "source"! Ilon Mask honestly and clearly told that the stage can not be reused, gave reasons, outlined a plan of action. Posted photos:
I published them
video:

From this message a false fake file about "Macarons" was sucked from the finger.

3.Laapy. I will quote the author "on the knee", much without further elaboration and not clogging up the brain, to refute. I start tediously chewing on points, sorry for boredom.

Quote: Author
But if you, as a state lobbyist, have trillionth NASA, which, as a state organization, is accountable to a bunch of strict doctor-auditors, and you really really want to steal, you need to come up with some kind of super-expensive project that, like a toad through a straw, can be inflated on the stock exchange, pumping out money from budget.

- NASA is a department owned by the US federal government, reporting directly to the vice president of the United States.
- NASA is a public organization and is required by Federal Law to publish all information within 24-72 hours (depending on the category), even research results, photography, failures, etc. A vice president may prohibit (later he will receive a cap if they find out) or a court. Financial reports are available to all. Money is monitored, given out crumbs, for every cent "left" can nakostylyat.

"Trillion budgets" - of course! We look:
The budget in 2005 was about $ 16,2 billion.
The budget in 2007 was about $ 17,4 billion.
The budget in 2008 was about $ 17,3 billion.
The budget in 2009 was about $ 17,6 billion.
The budget in 2010 was about $ 18,7 billion.
The budget in 2011 was about $ 19 billion.
The budget in 2012 was about $ 17,770 billion.
The budget in 2013 was about $ 17,711 billion.
The budget in 2014 was about $ 17,6 billion.
The budget in 2015 was about $ 17,46 billion.
The budget for 2016 is estimated to be $ 19,2 billion.

The US Congress "fell asleep" NASA money

For the past decades, NASA has been begging and begging money from the US Congress, and they are being "cut and cut."
Here the “writer” lied to as many as THREE-order (so, with a light blow to the clave, the trusting Russian electorate was deceived 1000 times).

Quote: Author
- hire a chatty dude with shining eyes,
- hire a team of PR people, designers and other energetic as well as unprincipled people,
- register a private company in California, and this private company is not obliged to disclose the nuances of their financial health (gygy),


The eye did not see the brilliant, "chatty" - where? In my opinion, everything is within the framework.

Meeting with staff / alumni of the Massachusetts Institute of Technology (Massachusetts Institute of Technology, MIT). In my opinion, neither clowns, nor "dudes", and even more so, "writers" -diffamers are not invited there?


His jokes:


As for unprincipled PR people, I don’t know. Missiles fly, launches successful, orders for 2-3 of the year. The writer probably knows better.
Falcon 9 delivered 11 satellites into orbit, weighing more than 170 kg each, taking off almost twice as high as New Shepard. That is, the SpaceX rocket withstood much more extreme loads and justified the orbital status.

Passenger spaceship Crew Dragon:


Last November, SpaceX signed a contract with NASA for the transportation of American astronauts to the ISS. By old arrangement until the end of the year 2016 these tasks are performed by Roscosmos. SpaceX carries economic risks for Roscosmos?
-private company ... A private company is a commercial organization (enterprise) that is privately owned, that is, owned by individuals or legal entities under common ownership rights. Unlike a public company in a private company, shares or shares belong to a limited circle of persons and cannot be transferred or sold without the consent of other owners.

The owners (owners) of a private company conduct their business in their own interests at their own peril and risk, and receives all the profits from the activities of this company.

Private companies are one of the most common forms of business in the world. For example, in the US 1980s, the number of private companies was 70 — 73% of the total number of registered companies, and the total output of these companies was 6 — 7% of the total output in the country.

Need a report? Request:
SpaceX financial statement

PrivCo Confirms SpaceX is "Cash-Flow Positive"; Elon Musk's 65% Stake in SpaceX Worth Estimated $ 1.6 Billon

Or request to NASA for contracts. Get copies.
The plant is:

The dynamics, too: 27.11.2015 Elon Musk announced the development of a rocket engine for flight to Mars. A closed cycle methane-jet engine (Raptor) will be used..
Liquid-fuel engine
Propellant LOX / liquid methane
Mixture ratio O / F: 3.8 / 1
Cycle Full-flow staged combustion
Performance
Thrust (SL) 2,300 kN (230 tonnes-force)
Isp (vac.) 363 s
Isp (SL) 321 s


Testing the Raptor's Rocket Engine Preburner at Stennis in 2015.


The construction of the test bench for the new Raptor rocket engine in MacGregor, Texas, launched 31 January 2016.


SpaceX officially showed R&D test program for Raptor at Stennis Space Center, company is already working on updating testbed E-2 with the possibility of testing on methane.

In defense of the pasta monster Ilona Mask put in a word. Part of 1


Stephen Jones, the main software developer at SpaceX, who previously worked as an engineer at Nvidia, is leading a project to develop his own software for VG: Computational Fluid Dynamics, CFD, a program for simulating the movement of fluids and gases and their combustion inside engines is bad suitable for simulating the operation of rockets.



REFERENCE:
The cost of the three companies Mask - SolarCity, SpaceX and Tesla Motors - is $ 50 billion. The entrepreneur, WSJ writes, always managed to find non-standard ways to support the business: in addition to issuing bonds, he personally issued loans for $ 475 million and bought shares of his companies when they needed money. Mask credit lines are secured by its shareholdings.

Tesla Motors Inc., SolarCity Corp. and Space Exploration Technologies Corp., known as SpaceX, jointly benefited from about 4,9 billions of dollars in government support, according to data compiled by the Los Angeles Times. This figure underscores what runs like a red thread through his growing empire: public-private funding model that supports start-ups with little chance of success.

"He definitely goes where there is money from the government"- said Dan Dolev, an analyst at Jefferies Equity Research. "This is a great strategy, but one day the government will turn you off."

The figure, compiled by the Los Angeles Times, consists of various government benefits, including grants, tax breaks, plant construction, interest-free loans, and environmental loans that Tesla can sell. It also includes tax deductions and discounts for buyers of solar panels and electric vehicles.

Excuse me ... what about us?

Potanin and Deripaska, Rotenberg and family, Gazprom and UVZ (bankrupt like). Should I continue?

About the "cut"
Quote: Author
launching the Invisible Market Hand into the US budget

- it is strange that "our patriot of Russia", a citizen of the Russian Federation, so tenderly perceives the cut of the US budget (for me, so they saw, let them cut further, the more, the better we need, we must be silent and poddakivat, the little idea to slip all sorts of bad things, let them spend) .
- give me at least one major project in new Russia, where not stolen? There are such?

But where they stole and stole a lot: Sochi, Vostochny, UVZ ... I will tire of listing.

Quote: Author
This is a fakinshit, planet Earth! And on it is gravity, the laws of nature and various minor engineering limitations.

Not understood. What did the author want to say? What are we all UO, and he is very educated? HZ. We'll write off the author’s sexual concerns, let's say.

Quote: Author
These are the dimensions and the average mass of telecommunications and military satellites - several tons, at least (not to deal with microsatellites? All serious people, we work seriously).

In as Dimona stitched something ...

-NASA is not a military organization;
-SpaceX does not yet have contracts with USAIF, or with USNAVI and with Petntagon at all. And it is unlikely to be. There such bison sit: Lockheed Martin Corporation, Boeing Company, Aerojet Rocketdyne, etc. He them on one tooth. Full ULA (United Launch Alliance), in short. He would have to fight off competitors from private companies;
- for a long time there are no satellites of several tons;

Dimon left behind? Again lied?
Quote: Author
Consequently, the rocket’s energy comes out of the orbital mass to the geostationary orbit and from the mass of trucks (and ships with people).

Oh yeah. Such a deep inference. Already captured the spirit. Especially about the "energy dance"! Maybe horse racing? "Hto ne leaping, that ..?"

Quote: Author
Therefore, in your pocket you accidentally find the old Nasovskie drawings of the old engine from the American lunar landing module (who said the patents? Who said the stands?) And take this engine as the main cruiser.

What nonsense! So the writer will even be told by the "USE victim" (I hope so).

-Apollo 16 LM Orion, starting weight 15200 kg, landing / start in airless space (nozzle expansion)
Remote control: TRW-1 LM Descent Engine (LMDE), specific impulse: 311 s (3050 Н • s / kg), thrust: 41.9 kN.
TC: Aerozine 50 / Nitroxide (N 2 O 4).
Specific impulse: 290 s (2840 N • s / kg)
Weight: 113 kg, chamber pressure: 7.00 bar, thrust-to-weight ratio: 31,4338235294118 Oxidizer to fuel: 1,59.
Burn time: 322 s.



To the 45 anniversary of the flight of the Apollo-9 spacecraft - very lucidly and colorfully
Technical documentation and operation manual for the lunar module, NASA website (PDF file, 804 pages, size 39 MB)

The trouble ....
Merlin 1D: kerosene + oxygen, Traction: Vacuum: 741 kN, Sea level (current): 654 kN, 9.7 MPa (97 atm.-97 bar), running time = 162 s.
Falcon 9 v1.1: Dry weight of the step - about 23 t (about 26 t for (R) -modification).
I apologize ... but how can I shovel the TRW-1 into Merlin 1D "as a march"? belay
My brain - pass. The author disgraced Baumanka once again (I don’t understand, he bought a diploma in the metro, or what?). The writer Konanykhin lies and does not even blush, lies and does not blush, lies and does not blush ....

Small retreat:
Quote: Alexey RA
I can even tell you about two key developments that were transferred to the Mask - an RS-88 LPD, developed by Rocketdyne on order and under the auspices of NASA - in the middle - the end of 90-x and LPD Fastrac

- It is also not true.
I explained
- They don’t have anything for free, it wasn’t and is unlikely to be. While there is a patent term - pay and use. Not paid - ruined.

Quote: Author
Naturally, the technology of soft landing on the planet has been developed for more than 60 years.

-Steps with LRE? Try it on?
- What planet? In the solar system, there are already more than 10 units. On planet earth? What nonsense! Who! Where? When? What year?

"Worked out", but only not with us, and not with the LRE, but with a solid propellant rocket motor (we have no steps with a solid rocket motor).





Quote: Author
Therefore, even the hardening of materials when pouring tanks with liquid oxygen is taken into account by normal engineers.

- What about room kerosene? And with heat transfer from the lower part with 9-th LRE pieces with a total 7607 kN (for 2000grs torch), and with high-frequency oscillations in the LRE COP (which tore the RD-105 into pieces)?
- Can fragility be taken into account and the weakening of the carrying tanks? And not "hardening"?

I will explain:
1) Take the scrap (at room temperature), shake it against the wall. Has broken? Not!
2) Take the crowbar, drop it into the LOX (−222,65 ° C) ... give the scrap a click. What happened? Crumbled into pieces (probably did not try).


Quote: Author
And you are told that it is simply impossible to attach the landing pillars to these thin walls - therefore you need to fence support belts, thickenings all over the sidewall, hardening of the structure, put the drives for the “legs” - and this is all difficult, this is all design,


Long laughed the whole family.
-Mass "supports" 2000-3000 kg.
-Marlin 1D 9ХЖДD give 7607 кН (775тн) to the mass, filled with Falcon 9 v1.1: 506 т. Overload (at the start): 1,54g and then (as the tanks are empty) to 4g.

WHERE DOES THE LRE AND THE WHERE THEY TRANSFER THE CHAIN ​​HAVE BEEN ADDED TO? Point of application of power where? Maybe there and screw 2 tons of supports? Do you, Dimon, as a mechanical engineer (graduate) consider this?

Quote: Author
constant weighting

Yes, Dimych - another question: RN "Soyuz" tucked hangs on what? RN "Proton" tucked on what? By the way, this is the 500-800 tone.

Quote: Author
Naturally, for a soft landing rocket you need a lot of fuel and oxidizer - this is the very "dead" mass

-I agree, "dead." Only here the princess economy comes into play: which is more expensive: excessive fuel consumption (with the same mass of fuel components, for the same cost of refueling to bring less payload) or the cost of 9 LRE pieces and stage?

For reference: in PH, the cost of the hull and the remote control is under 80% of the value of the PH, along with the MO. The control is approximately 40%, THA is about 30% of the cost of the LRE. The first step is the most expensive (it is understandable). The second and third steps are not technically returned (it is also clear: height, speed). I cannot vouch for the accuracy of the figures (from memory), but something like this.
-Each rocketman knows. All PH (except, perhaps, Korolevskoy H1-L1) do not choose the dry fuel (hot split). There is always a residue. Y "Proton" - is from 700 kg to 1500 kg (environmental curse of Kazakhstan). Naturally, someone suggested this fact to Ilona (or maybe he doper himself). Is there a balance? There is! Rourquoi pas? Voila Eureka! Add another step and return the whole (together with 9-th rocket engine, automatics and other requirements).

The businessman primarily thinks about the benefits.
Attempts to return the whole first step were a bunch of projects, too.




While it was possible (albeit partially) only
Quote: Author
talkative dude with sparkling eyes.


Продолжение следует ...
Author:
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  1. godofwar6699
    godofwar6699 23 May 2016 06: 20 New
    +9
    good article good
    1. Vend
      Vend 23 May 2016 11: 37 New
      +1
      Meeting with staff / alumni of the Massachusetts Institute of Technology (Massachusetts Institute of Technology, MIT). In my opinion, neither clowns, nor "dudes", and even more so, "writers" -diffamers are not invited there?
      Well, if you look at the F-35, then they definitely don’t invite laughing And if you recall the State Department, then even more convinced of this laughing
    2. yushch
      yushch 23 May 2016 12: 05 New
      15
      Quote: godofwar6699
      good article good


      Time will show. When the "macaroni" returned to earth takes off again, then it will be possible to say specifically which of the two authors was right and who was wrong. And now all this is the usual polemic of "techies".
      1. aiw
        aiw 23 May 2016 12: 37 New
        10
        Controversy is when they operate on facts. Dmitry (who so swore Mask) did not operate on facts, Dmitry lied like a gray gelding and wrote urapatriotic nonsense. What is most sad is that readers of VO pushed him pluses - i.e. the level of readers in technical matters somewhere in the basement basement ...
        1. RomanS
          RomanS 23 May 2016 14: 06 New
          +7
          And you ask yourself why today the debate continues about the reliability of the Americans’ flights to the moon. Unfortunately, there are a lot of lies in the media, so every person, in fact, operates with the concept: I believe, I don’t believe. Personally, I sincerely believed at the end of 80 that the f 16 fighter was the best in the world. Exclusively due to the lack of objective information about him and other la. Americans are great at presentations.
          1. aiw
            aiw 23 May 2016 14: 38 New
            +4
            Only the incompetent comrades who, by virtue of their incompetence, toward all kinds of conspiracy theories, argue about the flight of the Americans to the moon. This is from the same opera as a criticism of Einstein's general relativity, tales about Tesla, torsionism, hollow earth and creationism.

            There is absolutely no better fighter / tank / ship - any such difficult canoe is a compromise with its pros and cons. You can only say with a stretch that the best thing is to solve a narrow circle of problems. Change the circle of tasks - will change and favorite.
          2. Simple
            Simple 24 May 2016 10: 51 New
            0
            And you wonder:
            Therefore, these disputes were not during the USSR.
            And these disputes suddenly arose under Russia, and then let's say this very recently.
            Not like Ukraine of the last 10 years with its ancient uuuukras?
        2. Rus2012
          Rus2012 23 May 2016 14: 07 New
          +9
          Quote: aiw
          Controversy is when they operate on facts.

          ... here are the facts and the basics of the calculation method for the validity of the "multiple use of RN" - Soft landing systems for the first stage of the launch vehicle
          http://www.pvsm.ru/robototehnika/43402/print/

          There are only BASES of calculation that do not take into account many more things, such as:
          1. Necessary LPRE resource for "reusable 1st stage".
          It is known, for example, that the Soyuz 1st stage launch vehicle lasts 2-5 minutes during withdrawal. 2 minutes - "sides", 5 minutes - engines of the 2nd stage, which are started simultaneously with the 1st stage ("sides").
          To ensure the required reliability, set the resource of engines with coefficient = 3. So the required resource of engines of the 1-th stage is 6-15 minutes.
          For the works of I. Mask, the multiplicity of 10-100 is set! Hence, the resource of engines with 10-multiple use of the 1-th stage, d. minimum - 60 minutes, i.e. 1 hour!
          What famous rocket engine can continuously withstand maximum operation ONE HOUR OF WORK !!!
          This means that the MINIMUM of the known engines that can work for a long time, for example, the RD-108 "Soyuz", capable of operating for 15 minutes (according to the resource set with the coefficient = 3), must be so "deformed" to withstand an HOUR OF OPERATION. This is approximately a 50% reduction in thrust. And 50% of thrust for such an engine is a significant LACK of specific indicators and the same "weight" of the PH !!! Those. to the 30% "weighting" of the 1st stage PH, calculated in the BASICS, it is necessary to add about 10-20% more due to the need to increase the engine resource.
          2. Not taken into account also, in addition to engines, many requirements for other "disposable" units - steering gears and so on. and so on ...

          So look, on the basis of what "wonderful ways", unknown science and technology, the Mask's crafts will function a set number of starts ... :)))
          1. aiw
            aiw 23 May 2016 14: 32 New
            -4
            Well, let's talk about the resource. You would be right if we were talking about the continuous operation of the rocket engine without maintenance and partial replacement of parts. But since the step after landing resembles a retraining (troubleshooting is possible with partial replacement of parts), then you get the same thing as with the "impossibility of attaching supports" - an afigitelny story that has nothing to do with reality.

            Your energy and the development of the Angara would have flown to Mars long ago ... but by the way, no.
            1. Rus2012
              Rus2012 23 May 2016 15: 01 New
              0
              Quote: aiw
              Well, let's talk about the resource. You would be right if we were talking about the continuous operation of the rocket engine without maintenance and partial replacement of parts. But since the step after landing resembles a retraining (troubleshooting is possible with partial replacement of parts), then you get the same thing as with the "impossibility of attaching supports" - an afigitelny story that has nothing to do with reality.

              Your energy and the development of the Angara would have flown to Mars long ago ... but by the way, no.

              aiw, your arguments are bits, and not by me for a long time:
              1. Based on your criteria, the Soyuz spacecraft is also reusable. Because, after landing and fault detection (and this is always done to determine the operability and fault tolerance), some parts and assemblies are used / re-installed on others: on-board computers and some others ... including the standard PM pistol.
              2. If, after each start-up, 50% or even more units and assemblies are changed, where is the notorious profitability and profitability of the project?
              3. The engine should work out the required resource without intervention. In flight, it is somehow inconvenient to change parts. You know, you will not be able to work "by state". Otherwise nafig this garden to fence and stutter about the economic feasibility? Disposable, non-repairable - somehow it comes out more profitable ...

              PS: about my energy, you would beware of being silent, for I have worked / served my own ...
              Although in the Hangar and in Russia - a piece of my work has been applied. :-)
              1. The comment was deleted.
          2. Simple
            Simple 24 May 2016 10: 59 New
            0
            "Here and see"
            Sorry.
            It only dawned on me.
            So, did you copy Konanykhin’s Facebook article on topvar?
            I have questions:
            * why did not subscribe?
            * But how did the administration skip you? Are the rules printed because only your own articles are printed?
            And plagiarism, even indicating the source, go to military materials!
            How is it "faxing"?!?
            And the "calculations" that you refer to - there at the end:
            If we sort the listed systems by the specific gravity of the landing support systems, then in the first place there will be a helicopter intercept and parachutes, and landing on rocket engines will be the last or penultimate. What attracts even more interest to the Mask project - what will happen there!

            We will see !!!
            1. Rus2012
              Rus2012 24 May 2016 11: 43 New
              0
              Quote: Just
              I have questions:
              * why did not subscribe?
              * But how did the administration skip you? Are the rules printed because only your own articles are printed?
              And plagiarism, even indicating the source, go to military materials!
              How is it "faxing"?!?
              And the "calculations" that you refer to - there at the end:
              If we sort the listed systems by the specific gravity of the landing support systems, then in the first place there will be a helicopter intercept and parachutes, and landing on rocket engines will be the last or penultimate. What attracts even more interest to the Mask project - what will happen there!


              /// you have erroneous data -
              - Firstly, VO publishes not only copyrighted materials, but ALL that are of interest to the target group.
              - authorship is indicated in full and with the original.
              - secondly - adm VO has the right to transfer material to different topics as desired and even not publish.
              - about "fakingshit" - read in the comments, it is pretty fully explained.

              As for the "calculations" - they are taken from the specified link - http://www.pvsm.ru/robototehnika/43402/print/
              Enlighten, there are estimates on the fingers of all known methods of soft landing with prioritization. But, this is only the BASIS of calculation, not taking into account many other factors. I pointed out some.
              And it is not at all a fact that the "helicopter pickup" is optimal, because a lot of probabilistic things are brought in, which are unacceptable for serious programs.

              As many pro-rocket launchers say, my friends, including: I. Mask didn’t create anything supernatural or even create something genius or even his own — he just brought what already had to its logical conclusion: it was spectacular for the layman to put a step on a barge. And that’s it!

              Although, before him there were and are still widely used in the everyday life of the system of the so-called. "soft landing" -
              - Yak-38, Yak-141 aircraft vertical takeoff and landing machine
              - airborne landing system for heavy vehicles
              - jet braking system for Soyuz-type spacecraft
              - Soviet automatic "soft landing" / takeoff and return system for lunar modules.
              - Soviet Martian system of "soft landing" (for example, "Mars-3")

              Russian system "Baikal", brought to the stage of prototyping and readiness for testing. But, the Customer refused to continue, rightly considering that disposable systems in general and in essence would be effective both in terms of perfection and economically ...

              What more?
              But no, the "foreign tambourine" sounds differently, exciting the philistine environment of Kreakl ...
              1. Simple
                Simple 24 May 2016 15: 59 New
                +1
                Thank you for the consultation.
                I'll try what thread.

                I read about the article "calculations" for a long time.
                This is old stuff, and I do not agree.
                Life refutes those fabrications.

                The rest (tambourines) is lyrics. Not to the village.
      2. v.yegorov
        v.yegorov 23 May 2016 13: 55 New
        +2
        Interesting article. It would be interesting to hear the answer.
        Konanykhina on the same points, with arguments. And so of course
        only history will prove right. Return Flight History
        spacecraft.
      3. enginegr
        enginegr 23 May 2016 17: 36 New
        +4
        yushch, you are wrong. This is not a controversy. This article is the answer to the presumptuous ignorant boor and the enlightenment of the audience. How do the plus articles by Dmitry differ from those who "skip"? Just to blame. And even if Musk's brainchild, "macaroni", as you put it, does not take off again, it will not mean that Dmitry is right about something. Any technical project comparable to Musk's project, even without being crowned with success, brings enormous benefits in the form of technical developments, research results, etc. and will certainly serve for the next successful one.
        1. yushch
          yushch 23 May 2016 18: 38 New
          +2
          Quote: enginegr
          yushch, you are wrong. This is not a controversy. This article is the answer to the presumptuous ignorant boor and the enlightenment of the audience. How do the plus articles by Dmitry differ from those who "skip"? Just to blame. And even if Musk's brainchild, "macaroni", as you put it, does not take off again, it will not mean that Dmitry is right about something. Any technical project comparable to Musk's project, even without being crowned with success, brings enormous benefits in the form of technical developments, research results, etc. and will certainly serve for the next successful one.


          I put you a plus, but just you are wrong. Many added an article for its syllable, that is, for the original presentation of a seemingly routine technical text. You should not try to reason with someone, as you put it. Here, for the most part, people are adults and have their own views and knowledge in life. They laughed and forgot, the essence of my comment is that time will tell who is right and who is not. hi
      4. opus
        23 May 2016 22: 02 New
        +2
        Quote: yushch
        When the "macaroni" returned to earth takes off again, then it will be possible to say specifically which of the two authors was right and who was wrong.


        I have suspicions that I will be right.
        1. Most likely will fly, already notified Il.M. of all


        2. Well, not this one so next. And explained why:

        Quote: Author
        The booster had a speed of more than 5200 mph when the upper stage of the rocket detached, compared to about 4000 mph during the previous mission when entering the lower orbit, and SpaceX engineers said that she experienced a five-fold greater heating at the time of entry into the atmosphere than at the previous launch.
        Now the question is in order to increase thermal protection and, possibly, to strengthen other structural elements of the stage, so that the LV can withstand such severe influences and return in good enough condition to be reused
        ".

        That godlessly Konanykhin misinterpreted

        Elon Reeve Musk turns to friends: "Will our rocket be cooler than others? Or our rocket will be better than others, but at the same time, of course, without offending others, they were also good, or ..."


        3. Remember how the "poor" was mocked when:

        And before that, in 2015, about the explosion on the march

        Then all about trampolines, trampolines told

        But?

  2. Engineer
    Engineer 23 May 2016 11: 21 New
    +3
    We are waiting for a reply from the "Author"
  3. Monster_Fat
    Monster_Fat 23 May 2016 11: 25 New
    10
    The author, how "excited" by, in general, the phrase "about nothing", which flashed here in the hundreds and wrote a whole article (by the way, very informative) .. I wonder where he got so much free time?
    1. opus
      23 May 2016 13: 46 New
      +2
      Quote: Monster_Fat
      The author is how "excited" by, in general, the phrase "about nothing",

      indignant. tk
      1.Konanykhin - "Bauman"
      2. Konanyhen lies, I try to prove it, in more detail in part 2
      Konanykhin as a two-faced anus ... oh sorry Janus. Although it makes no difference

      Russian engineers performed a miracle by building "Vostochny" -Andrey Medvedev, Sergey Korneevsky and Maria Frolova

      (This slide has blinded, for the first time in my life lol )

      I recommend listening to (full version on 40 min) sex expert D. Konanykhin
      http://radiovesti.ru/episode/show/episode_id/39538

      here he is soft fluffy, he already licks a good Ilon, and the Americans are nothing to themselves, not any "boys" "cancer" and so on
      Once pierced: weird technology, and so everything is civil.
      Shl I can’t understand how, with his busy date of his graduation from MSTU, he managed to take part in the construction of the Angara SC and write “good novels.
      He’s lying somewhere: either in his biography, or on Vesti FM

      Quote: Monster_Fat
      (by the way, very informative

      The second part has more texture and doc. base.
      Spasib
      Quote: Monster_Fat
      I wonder where he got so much free time from.

      1: Work starts at 9: 30, I fall asleep at 04: 00. Until they kicked out, there’s not much time, but there is (I'm at work)
      2. It was rainy
      3. I have 4-6 hours of work, I spend more time in WoT (tired already). Natalya spent more time (corrector, moderator) with TopVar.
      I have a lot of mistakes, which is a shame even in my pre-retirement age.
      NATALIA YOU A HUGE THANKS
      4.Potato planted, apple trees bloom themselves

      the wife has not yet asked for flowers to be dug up.
      Grass mowed.
      Why not?
      wink
      1. Monster_Fat
        Monster_Fat 23 May 2016 14: 16 New
        +2
        Thanks for the clear explanation. hi
  4. Pereira
    Pereira 23 May 2016 11: 27 New
    26
    It is written no more convincingly than an article that was, as it were, defeated.
    Anyway, the whole argument is about nothing.
    From the point of view of technology, Ilona’s venture in the Mask is initially a dead end, because it does not solve the main problem - the cost of putting the cargo into orbit. A technological breakthrough is also not visible. Everything else is useless debate.
    The problem must be solved at a different technical level.
    I award the authors a draw.
    1. potroshenko
      potroshenko 23 May 2016 13: 05 New
      +2
      It is written no more convincingly than an article that was, as it were, defeated.
      From the point of view of technology, Ilona’s venture in the Mask is initially a dead end, because it does not solve the main problem - the cost of putting the cargo into orbit. A technological breakthrough is also not visible.

      Where are your "arguments"? Or should you take your word for it?
      1. Pereira
        Pereira 23 May 2016 13: 59 New
        +1
        I repeat. There is no technological breakthrough. And the existing systems have exhausted themselves as a steam engine. As a result, we have a rise in price.
        Without new technologies, flying to Mars makes no sense.
        1. Simple
          Simple 23 May 2016 16: 50 New
          +6
          You are not right. There is a breakthrough.
          Until Mask, no one was able to land the liquid stage from the heights of 70-120 km, at a given point!
          Whole, and even with this, put the satellites into a given orbit.
          Here, both programmers and engine developers tried. Sopromats and metallurgists the same
    2. Bayonet
      Bayonet 23 May 2016 13: 50 New
      +5
      Quote: Pereira
      From the point of view of technology, Ilona’s venture in the Mask is initially a dead end, because it does not solve the main problem - the cost of putting the cargo into orbit.

      The main task, the creation of reusable systems with a jet landing. Work on the prospect of flights to other planets, followed by return to Earth. Take the same Mars. hi
    3. opus
      23 May 2016 13: 54 New
      10
      Quote: Pereira
      It is written no more convincingly

      Not true.
      I have facts, especially in CHNUMX, Here a lot of the introduction gobbled up
      Quote: Pereira
      From the point of view of technology, Ilona’s venture in the Mask is initially a dead end, because it does not solve the main problem - the cost of putting the cargo into orbit

      From the point of view of ECONOMY.
      Just take a calculator (or 1С) and calculate) PN loss (due to 2 tons and 4 TK tone in tanks) or loss: LRE cost, tons, Steps.
      Again in H 2 in more detail, and how much explanation and why
      1. user1212
        user1212 23 May 2016 16: 04 New
        +2
        Quote: opus
        Just take a calculator (or 1С) and calculate) PN loss (due to 2 tons and 4 TK tone in tanks) or loss:] the cost of the rocket engine, tons, Steps.

        What are they suitable for restarting? Not. What is the saving?
        1. Rus2012
          Rus2012 23 May 2016 16: 14 New
          -1
          Quote: user1212
          Quote: opus
          Just take a calculator (or 1С) and calculate) PN loss (due to 2 tons and 4 TK tone in tanks) or loss:] the cost of the rocket engine, tons, Steps.

          What are they suitable for restarting? Not. What is the saving?


          The main thing is that when specialized specialists with calculations prove
          people - the humanities simply don’t understand that the craft Mask in the form of a heavy class LV displays useful USE, which is capable of displaying a disposable light / middle class LV.

          For them, the argument that a rocket flies and sometimes lands - acts magically like a boa constrictor on rabbits. Other indicators: inefficiency, historical experience, are simply not perceived. Here, all patience ends.

          Of course, belief in IDOL and "miraculous way" is irrational ... wassat
          1. The comment was deleted.
          2. Bongo
            Bongo 24 May 2016 01: 53 New
            +4
            Quote: Rus2012
            Of course, belief in IDOL and "miraculous way" is irrational ...

            Here you are again not original No.Failure to admit that someone but not us (why not us is a topic for another discussion) has been successful does not raise awareness. However, in this case, you at least do not throw poop like last time:
            Quote: Rus2012

            The launch of the new cosmodrome was a heavy blow to the conscientious intelligentsia and the Euros, accustomed to admire the achievements of Ilon Mask and NASA. In the impoverished corrupt Russia, plundered by officials from the party of crooks and thieves, money is spent unclear on what. We can say they are being thrown out into space, instead of paying pensions, building hospitals and kindergartens, or transferring to Navalny to rent an office in the center of Moscow (19 million a year) and his new investigations into corruption cases. Therefore, on Twitter today there is a real storm of liberal intelligentsia, in terms of the degree of handshake similar to the energy release recorded by the handshake meters of the Matryoshka tavern in the 2012 year, right after the lawyer Mark Feigin announced the two-year sentence for the vaginal punk band Pussy Riot. The resentment of Ukrainian microbloggers is also understandable. After all, the transition of Yuzhmash to production instead of space technology for sewing embroidered shirts also meant the end of all the successes of Mordor in space. Because Ukrainian engineers and designers now instead of supporting Russian missiles sing the anthem of Ukraine and solder stoves for the heroes of the ATO. And here, like a devil from a snuff-box, oaths are announced with a new cosmodrome. Suddenly, she became conscientiously and disgustingly at heart. How doused from the shower. Reached damn Putin.

            Jackets, colorado and slaves of Putin rejoice. The creative class and opposition microbloggers are indignant. Stop poisoning the intelligentsia! Enough tolerating this. Do not forget, do not forgive. And I urge all honest and decent people, gays, democratic journalists and euro-ukras to join hands so as not to disappear one by one, and declare a complete and unconditional ganba to the Russian cosmonautics. Only Elon Musk, only Bruce Willis. Therefore, the most relevant composition for this creative evening will be the VIA Stigmata track, which describes all the suffering and horror of the insignificant intellectual that he experiences when he mentions Russia's achievements in space. After all, one must not live by lies. For your and our freedom. So win!

            In my opinion, you are overly ideological. request
            1. Rus2012
              Rus2012 24 May 2016 10: 26 New
              -2
              Quote: Bongo
              In my opinion, you are overly ideological.

              /// you have a misconception about me ...
              What you brought was the post of Lev Sharansky from his own page.
              Leo Sharansky was a famous oppositionist of Soviet times - https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%A9%D0%B0%D1%80%D0%B0%D0%BD%D1%81%D % B0% D
              0%B9,_%D0%9D%D0%B0%D1%82%D0%B0%D0%BD

              And you see, even he changed his views on modern Russia, at least in this post.
              Nl
              1. Bongo
                Bongo 24 May 2016 14: 56 New
                +1
                Quote: Rus2012
                you have a misconception about me ...
                What you brought was the post of Lev Sharansky from his own page.

                I just quoted your comment on an article on Iranian anti-ship missiles. When you were asked why you wrote this, you somehow modestly remained silent. request
        2. opus
          23 May 2016 22: 05 New
          +2
          Quote: user1212
          What are they suitable for restarting? Not. What is the saving?

          Yes.
      2. Pereira
        Pereira 23 May 2016 16: 48 New
        +1
        I will readily read part 2.
    4. g1v2
      g1v2 23 May 2016 14: 16 New
      +9
      Well, there was an article about a sucking Mask, and this one kissing and sucking his critics and us in general. Both are not close to me. On the whole, I like what we are doing, but I am not inclined to consider charlatans those who go the other way.
      Whether the Mask project is successful or not is not important. In any case, it moves science and technology forward. Even if he does not succeed, then his project will be taken as a basis by others. The reusable use of ships is the future - for anyone. If now the level of science and technology does not allow us to guarantee the reusable use of ships or at least steps, this does not mean that it will be so in the future - it just means that the level of our development of technology is insufficient. request
      And now I’ll say something for which I’ll probably get a bunch of minuses. The state is obliged to pay for mistakes to move science. And mistakes - the majority in any project. An unsuccessful result is also a result. Mistakes also provide scientific knowledge. One successful scientific project can recoup a hundred unsuccessful ones, but for this they need to be carried out. No one ever knows whether the experiment will be successful or not, but without this science will not move. Therefore, I personally (ready for a shock from readers) POSITIVE PERCEPTION OF THE ACTIVITY OF RUSNANO, for example. Because it creates a high-tech industry and drives science, and most importantly - applies it. Maybe half of the hundred projects will not pay off - this is initially assumed, maybe even more, but this creates the industry and moves science and technology in the country.
      Musk also creates the industry and drives science. Unsuccessful? May be . But the very creation of a private company to launch spacecraft and space exploration is a plus for humanity as a whole. Space is already becoming a mundane from the breakthrough, and this increases the chance that someday our ancestors dreamed we would ride a tram to Mars.
      Well, ships capable of making multiple take-offs and landings without one-time steps will be unambiguous - tomorrow or after 10 years or after 100, but someone will succeed. hi
      1. aiw
        aiw 23 May 2016 14: 22 New
        +1
        I won’t put you a minus, I'm sorry. About unsuccessful projects - I agree with you completely.

        As for Konanykhin's first article, the problem is not that he was sucking anyone from there. the problem is that he lied shamelessly there. Moreover, if such lies from a journalist can still be understood (what to take from an amateur - I did not figure it out, it happens), then from a Baumanka graduate this is completely unforgivable.

        As for Rusnano and Skolkovo ... ah. if they sat down, they really moved science. But they mainly drive cutting and rollback technologies - we have this industry on a global level.
      2. region58
        region58 23 May 2016 14: 46 New
        0
        Quote: g1v2
        The state is obliged to pay for mistakes to move science. And mistakes - the majority in any project.

        One of Murphy's Laws states: "The need to introduce fundamental changes to the design increases continuously as we approach the completion of the project." It seems like a joke, but you think - not always.
      3. Bayonet
        Bayonet 23 May 2016 14: 56 New
        +6
        Quote: g1v2
        in order to move science is obliged to pay for errors. And mistakes - the majority in any project. An unsuccessful result is also a result. Mistakes also provide scientific knowledge. ABOUT

        This is Pushkin understood! smile "And experience, son of difficult mistakes,
        And genius, paradoxes friend, "
        1. Bayonet
          Bayonet 23 May 2016 15: 32 New
          +2
          Quote: Bayonet
          Pushkin understood this! "And experience, son of difficult mistakes,
          And genius, paradoxes friend, "

          Don't like Pushkin at VO? Shaw, also a "liberal" ????? request
      4. potroshenko
        potroshenko 23 May 2016 16: 15 New
        0
        Therefore, I personally (ready for a shock from readers) POSITIVE PERCEPTION OF THE ACTIVITY OF RUSNANO, for example. Because it creates a high-tech industry and drives science, and most importantly - applies it. Maybe half of the hundred projects will not pay off - this is initially assumed, maybe even more, but this creates the industry and moves science and technology in the country

        It is interesting, but all these projects with the results are somehow integrated into the world science, will they learn about the mistakes of some experiments abroad and will Russian scientists be able to learn about the foreign results of the projects? Is the scientific environment common in the world or do they have their own sandbox?
        1. g1v2
          g1v2 23 May 2016 19: 09 New
          +2
          Well, the global scientific community is highly integrated. That is, all scientific discoveries and successes are published in several prestigious scientific journals. A scientist is obliged to publish his work if he wants to increase status and grants. As far as I know, we have a separate sandbox. That is, we are not particularly recognized, except for the stars themselves, they are hardly published in the world press, etc. We have our own scientific journals, and in order to receive scientific degrees publications are required. And an important parameter of the scientist is the number of citations of his publication in the world press.
          By the way, such low ratings of our universities in the world system are mainly associated with this autonomy, since the number of publications and citations of university employees is a large part of the university rating. Simply put, if university scientists do not publish in a Western scientific journal, then a high rating does not shine for him.
          Now our minobr is trying to remove this autonomy and join the global scientific environment in the reform process. And there are pros and cons. On the one hand, it will be possible to lure Western scientists to us with salaries and laboratories, as in the tsarist era, when stars of the first magnitude did not hesitate to get involved in our work and this will definitely move our science, the ratings of educational institutions and so on will increase. But on the other hand, it will become easier for us to leave the West young and sensible, plus the West will have greater access to our autonomous system of scientific knowledge. Of course, no one will open military research institutes, but in other areas access to our scientific bins will be easier. On the one hand, in some areas we are lagging behind, and on the other in some areas since the USSR we have a lot of interesting things. In general - xs, what happens. request
  5. Vladimyrych
    Vladimyrych 23 May 2016 11: 29 New
    +7
    In defense of the pasta monster, Elon Mask put in a word
    request
    The morning began on the collective farm ...
    1. Fegelein
      Fegelein 23 May 2016 12: 11 New
      0
      In the kibbutz ...
      1. Bayonet
        Bayonet 23 May 2016 15: 03 New
        0
        Quote: Fegelein
        In the kibbutz ...

        Sholom Maksimchik!
    2. region58
      region58 23 May 2016 14: 59 New
      0
      Quote: Vladimir
      The morning began on the collective farm ...

      wink Dear editor, maybe better about the reactor, eh?
      About your favorite lunar tractor? (S)
  6. FC SKIF
    FC SKIF 23 May 2016 11: 29 New
    +6
    wait and see who it is, Tesla or Panama. I don’t understand yet, but macaroni is flying, and this is the main fact
    1. Rus2012
      Rus2012 23 May 2016 13: 03 New
      -5
      Quote: FC SKIF
      wait and see who it is, Tesla or Panama. I don’t understand yet, but macaroni is flying, and this is the main fact

      ... by the way, and IRON, CAN FLY :))))))))))))))))))))))))
      Toko with what the hell and who needs it ?!


      As for the author’s opus, I don’t even want to interfere and delve into this creation.
      Tea man nefig do and have nowhere to put time ...
      1. The comment was deleted.
  7. godofwar6699
    godofwar6699 23 May 2016 11: 31 New
    +2
    Dragon2 2018 is going to Mars for testing
  8. Flinky
    Flinky 23 May 2016 11: 32 New
    +8
    No matter what this subverter comes up with (and in terms of vocabulary it differs little from Konanykhin, so let him put on his pants or take off his cross) - it is indisputable that the first stage is not the engine of the aircraft, and it will have to be defective. This automatically raises the cost of re-launches, no matter what Musk invents.
    1. VP
      VP 23 May 2016 13: 00 New
      +3
      A troubleshooting procedure is much cheaper than making.
      Here, Musk is right.
      Another question arises - the reliability of troubleshooting.
      Almost certainly in the first launches, despite the troubleshooting, there will be undetected problems. Fatigue stress inside some elements, etc. Just because there is no accumulated experience what exactly should be checked most carefully and carefully.
      And it will take a lot of repeated launches to identify such difficult to detect moments until the troubleshooting procedure is worked out and optimized.
      And each such missed jamb is a potential disaster.
      1. Rus2012
        Rus2012 23 May 2016 15: 19 New
        +1
        Quote: VP
        A troubleshooting procedure is much cheaper than making.


        "Troubleshooting, especially reassembly, involves a lot of manual, highly skilled labor, including the use of a lot of instrumental and unique equipment, don't you think?
        As a rule, dismantlers (and assemblers) in such workshops are all 6-th category and with the highest ...
    2. opus
      23 May 2016 14: 06 New
      +6
      Quote: Flinky
      and in terms of vocabulary it differs little from Konanykhin

      Not true.I went up to D. Konanykhin. And so my vocabulary is even worse..
      Look at my profile: I have 7 (!) Bans!
      BUT!
      Not in the article.
      1.I'm not a writer
      Quote: Konanykhin
      "The author of several solid" Soviet "novels - about war and love, about the meaning of life and the meaning of history, about our country, which was, is and will be."

      2. Konanykhin two-faced, compare


      here he is soft fluffy, he already licks a good Ilon, and the Americans are nothing to themselves, not any "boys" "cancer" and so on
      Once I was pierced: "ulydochnaya" (even the auto-editor does not pass a word) technology, and so all civilians.
      http://radiovesti.ru/episode/show/episode_id/39538

      3.I "liked it", set it to myself, + wink
      Not myself, of course, but to the moderator-corrector Natalya.
      I am not even comfortable in front of the lady, she took apart my "Augean stables" for 3 days.
      thanks her hi
      She refused to barter, she does not need to repair the primus (there is no primus), Natalia does not care about the integral calculus (this is true)
      Quote: Flinky
      so let them put on their underpants or take off the cross

      1. I am not a Muslim, cowards, with the exception of some moments of my life, which are always on me.
      PS Are you a Muslim? Do not wear cowards?
      2. I remove the cross only in the bath (burns)
      I don’t put on, but the late grandmother, and not for me to shoot
      Quote: Flinky
      not an airplane engine, and it will have to be defective.


      in part 2 more texture
  9. shinobi
    shinobi 23 May 2016 11: 35 New
    +7
    It’s not profitable to judge the market. Someone who is smart and who is a fool of the patient will show time. Tsiolkovsky was held for blissful at the time. Korolev and Fonbraun were called dreamers. So excessive emotions and especially throwing th ... on the fan are inappropriate.
  10. godofwar6699
    godofwar6699 23 May 2016 11: 39 New
    +2
    In other news.
    India successfully launched the first reusable launch vehicle
    The prototype of the RLV-TD shuttle (a cruise reusable technology demonstration ship) was launched from the launch site on the island of Shriharikota in Andhra Pradesh. 20 minutes after the launch of the rocket, the test was considered successful. The final version of the shuttle is expected in 10-15 years.
  11. dzvero
    dzvero 23 May 2016 11: 41 New
    16
    I read both articles with interest, and comments were no less useful. For me, the conclusion from both publications is the same - to big money in the USA, in the Russian Federation, and ours :) random people are not allowed to get a cannon shot. NASA is full of first-class engineers at all levels and is beyond doubt. Then why did multibillion-dollar contracts sprinkle out of cornucopia to some efficient manager with a hastily created firm, and not an experienced designer? Apparently we, mere mortals, cannot understand this ...
    1. godofwar6699
      godofwar6699 23 May 2016 11: 49 New
      +9
      The US Air Force awarded SpaceX a $ 83 million contract to launch a GPS satellite, breaking the monopoly, Lockheed Martin and Boeing.
    2. mav1971
      mav1971 23 May 2016 15: 43 New
      +7
      Quote: dzvero
      Then why did multibillion-dollar contracts sprinkle out of cornucopia to some efficient manager with a hastily created firm, and not an experienced designer? Apparently we, mere mortals, cannot understand this ...


      You’d better read about Elon Musk himself ...

      He is the ideological inspirer and in many ways the creator of the business miracle, which is now called PayPal.
      The cost now is 45 billion dollars.
      He created the first and only profitable automobile company that builds electric cars.
      Ten years earlier than what appeared to be similar to prototypes from competitors.

      All other attempts to build serial electric cars are unprofitable and (even now) are so far incapable of doing anything serious.
      The existing auto giants - only now they are trying to at least somehow approach Tesla.
      But looking at their attempts with multimillion-dollar budgets, it is clear that they are very far away.
      And Toyota and Mercedes and the rest.
      They are in full buttocks ...

      Thanks to Tesla, now there is an avalanche-like development of technologies, directly or indirectly associated with batteries and their technologies.

      America is buying up its solar panels and its batteries to provide electricity to its homes. Because they are much higher level and cheaper - and this is sorry without a technological breakthrough - do not provide!


      He created companies that work an order of magnitude more high-tech than the rest, and his companies were redeemed for fabulous amounts.

      In fact, Musk is a real genius at the intersection of business and science.
      He is not only worthy of respect, he is worthy of studying scrupulous and even imitation of something!
      1. user1212
        user1212 23 May 2016 19: 26 New
        +2
        Quote: mav1971
        He created the first and only profitable automobile company that builds electric cars.

        Tesla is unprofitable. Net income after tax in the year 12 is -396.21 million $, in the year 13 -74.01 million $, in the year 14 -294.04 million $, in the year 15 -888.66 million $ http://ru.investing.com/equities/tesla- motors-income-statement
      2. dzvero
        dzvero 23 May 2016 21: 18 New
        +1
        You are right about something - Musk deserves respect for working and promoting new directions. Successfully or not, time will tell.
        He reminds me of Bill Gates only. He also did not invent anything new. I bought an untwisted OS, though I added something of my own, but most importantly, I managed to present it beautifully. And almost immediately, government orders rained down. A great example of the proper use of family ties. Although I am unfair - Bill Gates at that time already had quite good training in the field.
        Musk, unlike Gates, still did not find a bleeding niche. Otherwise, it is difficult to explain the severity of undertakings.
        Steve Jobs is another matter. In comparison with Geits, he is just the same loner without connections. Apple has never been able to compete with Microsoft in spite of the right decisions of Jobs - to promote Mac and in schools and universities, and also use only specific hardware. I also think that Jobs is truly a genius in marketing. To collect the already known and recognized as unpromising in a new wrapper and SO, not everyone will be able to untwist. Rather, not only everything, few can. (Klitschko looked into the water).
        So, I do not criticize or spat on the Mask. He does his own business and not for me to judge him. But I do not believe that he just went into NASA from the street and immediately into the ladies. Electric cars and solar panels are one thing, but astronautics, excuse me, are very, very different.
  12. spech
    spech 23 May 2016 11: 51 New
    -3
    You can throw me kakahami, but IMHO that Jobs, that Max PRI’s and nothing more negative
    1. mav1971
      mav1971 23 May 2016 16: 16 New
      +3
      Quote: spech
      You can throw me kakahami, but IMHO that Jobs, that Max PRI’s and nothing more negative


      Put you a minus.
      Sorry, but if you don't understand what "market driver" means, then don't talk about "PR people".

      If not for Jobs with his first iPhone and first IPed - there would be no such development:

      1. High speed data systems. About any 3G, 4G, 5G - you would not have heard 10 for years ... For without the appearance of smartphones and tablets - this is an industry - it would simply be unclaimed.
      2. WEB programming systems, protocols, etc. - also went on a jerk from tablets and smartphones.
      3. Processor engineering is a colossal breakthrough. The desktop market has been falling since the 2010 of the year. Accordingly, development there is not necessary economically. Demand for tablets and smartphones - and already 10nm - technology on the nose. The memory modules are here too. 70-80% of the world's memory chips go to tablets / smartphones.
      4. Displays do not develop thanks to TV, Cinema, and more. For even though 4K is drawn in advertising or curved surfaces - but there is no corresponding content and is not expected. The whole growth of technology is only due to tablets and smartphones. Can you imagine a picture in fullHD, which appeared at about the same time as the first smartphone? On diagonal xnumx inches.
      And after 3-4 of the year - FullHD on the diagonal of 5 inches - it is already commonplace. Imagine a breakthrough in technology?
      5. Batteries for thousands and tens of thousands of microamp hours - a millimeter size.

      And much more.
      And these are just direct changes - but there are still a lot of indirect ones.

      He was the first to make people use it, then the competitors went into action.
      1. spech
        spech 23 May 2016 16: 32 New
        +1
        I will answer on points
        1 Laptops have not been canceled.
        2 That is, until Jobs, the Internet only transmitted text?
        3 Processors were built before Jobs.
        4 And what to look at fullHD by 5 "?
        5 And ​​that, too, is the merit of a stub?
        From themselves in the first apple-trees stood Samghun processors,
        и

        The question is what exactly did he invent?
        1. mav1971
          mav1971 23 May 2016 16: 49 New
          +1
          Quote: spech
          I will answer on points
          1 Laptops have not been canceled.

          Laptops have stopped in performance since 2010 of the year.
          Believe me, I have been in this thread since 2002.

          2 That is, until Jobs, the Internet only transmitted text?
          No, but there was no mobile Internet. Fair.
          And look at the sites of those times (if you find modern ones).
          They have changed a lot.

          3 Processors were built before Jobs.
          Built, I do not argue. But the development was on a tik-tak.
          AWP has evolved as it is now for an extremely short period of time.
          And the pace of its development was not even dreamed of by Intel, AMD or IBM, even in their fattest years.
          And the same Intel, although it tried, but could not.

          4 And what to look at fullHD by 5 "?
          You won’t believe it, but the VK audience in Russia is 80% of users of the Russian Internet.
          95% of VK outputs - from mobile devices. Its - 4-5 inches.
          You are simply not in that part of the users. Like me, however. But I have a little statistics on this segment and I know what I'm writing about.
          You can download a movie from a torrent and watch it on a big screen, and the bulk of it is just stupidly watching it online on your device.

          5 And ​​that, too, is the merit of a stub?
          Yes. Precisely a stub. Because he created a huge demand for smartphones and tablets.
          Hundreds of competing manufacturers rushed to this wave of demand.
          The market began to consume gigantic volumes.
          Accordingly, the entire near-smartphone-tablet infrastructure - began to develop in super-tempo.
          And he shifted this stub.

          From themselves in the first apple-trees stood Samghun processors,
          и

          The question is what exactly did he invent?


          He invented the product. The kind that people said "Wow" for ...
          And the world has changed.

          Before him there were all sorts of crafts in the form of communicators. It seems to be similar in application - but complete.

          And here - "Wow". Convenient, beautiful.
          And the world has changed again.

          Threat. I am a fan of Motorola. I have almost the entire range of Razrov.
          Jobs and Agryzkofilstvo are not to be blamed for idolatry.
          There are simply reasons and consequences.
          And "if you are in the subject" - you can see and analyze it, looking back.
          1. spech
            spech 23 May 2016 17: 45 New
            0
            And here - "Wow". Convenient, beautiful.

            No comments laughing
            About the "invention" we drive into the search engine Nokia N-95
            1. mav1971
              mav1971 23 May 2016 19: 47 New
              +2
              Quote: spech
              And here - "Wow". Convenient, beautiful.

              No comments laughing
              About the "invention" we drive into the search engine Nokia N-95



              Apparently what I am saying does not reach you, but I understood your train of thought.
              You are looking for inventions.
              finished.
              "From and to".
              Let me give you an almost abstract example.
              What was invented in AK-47?
              It's nothing.
              Everything, absolutely everything in it, by someone previously invented, by someone previously invented.
              But Kalashnikov put everything together. by someone previously invented, in one system.
              In "your" product.
              With "its" ergonomics, with "its" design, with "its" materials science, with "its" mechanism, "its" reliability, "its" accuracy.

              And it turned out completely "my" machine, made of "alien" inventions.
              What is the result? But in the end, the AK-47 is a landmark weapon.
              In hundreds of countries. Tens of millions.

              Here is Apple.
              Put it together then. what came before him. But in different angles.
              Great great display.
              OS - sharpened by the fingers and the first with a truly intuitive interface.
              Applications are convenient and useful.
              Design.

              Then came dopa with a smartphone.
              ITuns, music, tablets, clouds, synchronization between devices, AppleTV, network adapters, disk storages.
              It was all connected initially to work together - like no one else has done.
              Full infrastructure.
              And people liked it. People began to buy it.

              and your example with Nokia is not a topic at all.
              Thick.
              Push-button.
              With a small screen and dicky resolution.
              On the disgusting Symbian OS.
              Take it in your hands now - you say - it sucks.
              And I also did not find any invention in your example.
  13. HollyGremlin
    HollyGremlin 23 May 2016 11: 59 New
    +6
    Both articles are not objective. Each circumvents difficult moments for its point of view and sticks out relevant facts. In the right places they don’t give links; in the right places they find fault with words or become personal. Conclusion: aftors go through the forest with such an analysis.
    1. srelock
      srelock 23 May 2016 13: 02 New
      +8
      Quote: HollyGremlin
      Both articles are not objective. Each bypasses difficult moments for its point of view and sticks out relevant facts.

      That's right, plus you.
      Comrade opus, to you a couple of questions.
      1. Why, having played enough with returned systems, the two most advanced in terms of experience and technology offices on the planet are developing further along the path of disposable media?
      2. Every day they write nonsense on Topvor, hold a referendum in Alaska, storm Washington, etc., why is it so bombed now?
      1. potroshenko
        potroshenko 23 May 2016 13: 41 New
        +5
        Every day they write nonsense on Topvor, hold a referendum in Alaska, storm Washington, etc., why is it so bombed now?

        I do not opus, but it’s obvious that a person does not care about political propaganda, but in technical aspects opus righteous man.
      2. opus
        23 May 2016 14: 37 New
        +5
        Quote: srelock
        1. Why, having played enough with returned systems, the two most advanced in terms of experience and technology offices on the planet are developing further along the path of disposable media?
        2. Every day they write nonsense on Topvor, hold a referendum in Alaska, storm Washington, etc., why is it so bombed now?


        1. As our minds proved (I don’t remember who Lozinsky or Mishin) Reusable systems become profitable with the number of launches per year from 50 or more.

        2015 g. The number of Russian launches: 26. Successful: 23. Partially Successful: 1.
        Unsuccessful: 2.
        +
        Launches not formally related to Russian: Soyuz-ST-B / Kuru = 3

        USA- 20, China 19, EEC -11
        1.1. If oil is so cheap, then they will return to reusers.
        1.3. these were the first attempts, sometimes not successful.
        But you can’t cross the ford without soaking your feet.
        I think with uch. No.1 come back.
        The main thing is that it would not be too late:

        I recommend: informative, entertaining, especially Ч1 (tomatoes and snowstorm)
        No. 1 Stars - cold toys http://www.livelib.ru/book/1000463736
        №2 Star Shadow http://www.livelib.ru/book/1000167158
        Quote: srelock
        2. Every day they write nonsense on Topvor, hold a referendum in Alaska, storm Washington, etc., why is it so bombed now?


        I explained 2.1 at the beginning of the article:

        request
        If I wrote about
        2.2. Alaska - the article would not have been posted. I'm not a full-time journalist, and the topic is not very familiar to me. I'm more of a skeet
        2.3. And you listen to D. Konanykhin, on the same topic here:
        http://radiovesti.ru/episode/show/episode_id/39538

        I briefly blinded the presentation.
        There is a difference?
        1. srelock
          srelock 23 May 2016 18: 17 New
          +2
          Quote: opus
          2.1 ...
          2.2 ...
          2.3 ...
          presentation

          Change the opinion of the local audience ... save your health yes
          1. As our minds proved (I don’t remember who Lozinsky or Mishin) Reusable systems become profitable with the number of launches per year from 50 or more.

          Would become profitable, but progress said no.
          Falcon 9 v1.1 Stage 1 Specific Impulse 273sec. with a return of 242 sec. (you can try the solid propellant rocket engine), the second stage at the same time 100t. / 327sec. Starting weight without PN 515t.
          Angara A3 URM-1 Specific Impulse 365sec. Second stage 40t. / 355sec. Starting weight without PN 453t.
          http://spaceflight101.com/spacerockets/angara-a3/
          From the return of the 1st stage of the Falcon, the Angara turns out to be approximately one and a half times more efficient in removing the payload, i.e. other things being equal, the cost of 1kg. in orbit one and a half times cheaper. At Falcon, we save on the production of parts of the engines and the 1st stage in terms of a certain number of starts (so far, as I understand, we do not save anything), all other costs remain as they are. Thus, the "refresher" of the 1st stage of the Falcon, each launch should save at least 30-40% of the cost in relation to the Angara A3 just to equalize, and anyway, after several launches, a new stage will need to be made. Let's add here the pricing in the Russian Federation and the USA.
          Once, the RD-170 was certified for 10 starts and assembled for 20 (by the way, it’s not a bad replacement for the Merlin), there were plans to return even the second stage and eventually came to the RD-180/191 to the stop with forced and lightweight engines with a resource of 400 sec., As failed to create a reliable, with sufficient resource, acceptable characteristics and cost of inter-flight maintenance of rocket engines.
          http://www.npoenergomash.ru/dejatelnost/engines/rd171m/
          1. Rus2012
            Rus2012 23 May 2016 21: 23 New
            +1
            Quote: srelock
            Would become profitable, but progress said no.

            ... :))))))))))))))))
            So far, Fu9 has not "jumped" the performance characteristics of the Proton, Soviet design:
            fu9 - 5271kg, GPO; 22800kg, DOE, calculation, not reached - all this in the non-reuse mode of 1 st.

            Proton - 6740kg, GPO; 23000kg, NOO, nominally

            And they are worn with a falcon like with a written sack. Entertainers and their friends "blinkered" by the amers' PR-machine.
            1. srelock
              srelock 23 May 2016 21: 43 New
              +2
              Quote: Rus2012
              And they are worn with a falcon like with a written sack. Entertainers and their friends "blinkered" by the amers' PR-machine.
              I don’t know why, but it’s so customary for them to do it first, and then watch what happened. It happens - it turns out, but more often not lol
          2. opus
            23 May 2016 23: 17 New
            +3
            Quote: srelock
            Change the opinion of the local audience ... save your health

            Alexander - I’m more for myself (Schaub doesn’t dull from the World of Tanks completely, corn in front of the cards). My children read, neighbors ...
            Quote: srelock
            With the return of the first Falcon stage, the Angara turns out to be about one and a half times more effective in outputting the payload

            How many launches of the hangar and how many Falcon?
            Launch Manifest | Spacex

            Satellite launches (spacecraft) in 2015 year

            All launches are shown in UTC. Last 21.12.2015 Refinement

            Who will deliver the crew to the ISS by the end of 2016?

            Falcon Heavy should fly this year, the hangar Heavy?

            Quote: srelock
            payload output, i.e. ceteris paribus cost 1kg. one and a half times cheaper in orbit.

            This is not true.
            1. GAME ACCESSIBLE ROCKET. and the LRE on it is the most expensive (in our country and in the world) in terms of 1 tf

            2014
            RD 191 standing on the "armament" of the Angara launch vehicle, in relative prices is considered one of the most expensive kerosene rocket engines in the world - 36 $ / tf (000 million rubles).
            Merlin 1D with an approximate price of $ 15 / tf (~ $ 000 million)
            2.Angara "not a masterpiece"
            This is the fuel tank (lower) of the first stage of the launch vehicle Soyuz-2.1v. oxidizer pipe inside

            1. opus
              23 May 2016 23: 27 New
              +2
              This is the Angara launch vehicle.

              Highlighted in yellow - a pipeline that performs the same function. Judging by the proportions, this is also an oxidizer pipeline (oxygen tanks are larger than kerosene for an oxygen-kerosene pair), but brought out from the side to simplify and reduce the cost of production. On the one hand, this is unaesthetic, but a digital control system with missile asymmetry will cope, should.
              Which solution is more competent from an engineering point of view?
              3. What LVs can even a rich state produce for itself?
              Hangar? or falcon 9?
              The answer in my opinion is obvious.
              Quote: srelock
              Add pricing here in the Russian Federation and the USA.

              we have more.
              1. They have factories on their side to the SK at hand, logistics!
              We are building in the center - taken to Vostochny / Baikonur
              they have the sea we have Toko railway.
              If by plane: they have 14000 runways, we have about 300, distances again
              2. They do not need to heat the workshops, if only they cool in the heat (and the heat pump is cheaper to the heater, like 1 to 3), from 40 ° C to 20 ° C (Delta 20 ° C)
              We have 13 months out of 12 winter, well, almost.
              It is necessary to heat from -20 ° C to at least + 15 ° C (delta 35 ° C)
              Our cold weather also affects the cost of a communal apartment (houses, kindergarten, school, bus), all this is on the shoulders of the city-forming one, our proletariat needs to eat more (cold)
              3. They steal less
              4. Technological base. They say they need to make a squiggle, 5 seconds for 5 cents (well, Tesla and E-mobile are an example of TomU)
              we have: a year to look for, order in China, get a poop.
              Something like that...
              1. srelock
                srelock 24 May 2016 01: 03 New
                +1
                Anton, I do not quite understand why you brought the number of starts. In the context of the issue of the technical effectiveness of launch vehicles, it is interesting only in terms of failure rates.
                The hangar is a scalable system that allows you to replace several types of media at once, i.e. in any case, the number of launches will be greater than that of any other medium or even their group.
                I also did not understand the comparison of engines expressed in terms of thrust / cost ratio.
                The Angara A3 has 3xRD-191 and that’s $ 12 million, Falcon $ 9 million with comparable traction, the Angara’s remote control is 25% more expensive, but at the same 25% more effective than Falcon without a return, and as a result, the Angara drags more and higher / more inclined than Falcon. Do not forget that the Angara is just starting its way, the cost of remote control will further decrease.
                Which solution is more competent from an engineering point of view?

                The most intelligent decision is always a compromise. "By eye", the decision is not heavier than the past.
                1. opus
                  24 May 2016 12: 37 New
                  +4
                  Quote: srelock
                  Anton, I do not quite understand why you brought the number of starts.

                  It's simple.
                  1. Resource and time costs
                  Even a very rich country would prefer 20 times in 12 tons than 1-2 times in 20 tons.
                  Well, if there is something to deduce of course!
                  2. It's just a performance indicator: private trader, a special about online payments started in 2005, what does he have to 2016
                  The state, the undisputed leader in space exploration, started ... What do we have?
                  We live at the expense of USSR baggage
                  Quote: srelock
                  However, I did not understand the comparison of engines expressed in terms of thrust / cost ratio.

                  everything is simple ("Will Achilles catch up with the turtle"?)
                  Falcon costs $ 30 million, fuel launch margin $ 35, total $ 65
                  Angara $ 55 million, fuel launch margin $ 35, total $ 85
                  conventional figures, for the Angara I underestimate, the essence is not in them
                  Start number 1
                  Falcon $ 65 = 12тн
                  Hangar $ 85 = 20 tons
                  Hangar burned xnumx million the same
                  Falcon returned, fuel burned
                  The 1 level is the most expensive, it is 70% of the LV and MON
                  $ 30 million * 0,7 = $ 21 million + $ 5 million for delivery restoration, control
                  Step 2:
                  Falcon $ 14 ($ 30 - $ 21 + $ 5) + $ 35 (fuel launch margin) = $ 49 = 12tn
                  Hangar $ 85 = 20 tons
                  step3:
                  Falcon $ 11 ($ 27 - $ 21 + $ 5) + $ 35 (fuel launch margin) = $ 46 = 12tn
                  Hangar $ 85 = 20 tons
                  (I'm so on my knee and it seems confused, not the point)
                  .
                  and so on
                  step10 (Merlin 1D - 10 loops)
                  Is the idea clear?
                  Quote: srelock
                  the cost of remote control will further decrease.

                  No.
                  RD-191 is produced / operated with 2001, pH based on RD-171 (with 1988)
                  RD-191 (LV Naro-1), RD-193 (LV Soyuz-2.1в)
                  RD-181 is an export version of the RD-193 engine; it is supposed to be installed on the Antares US launch vehicle.
                  Everything is squeezed out for him. will only go up.
                  Merlin-price will fall with the number of issues, and taking into account the restoration (1 cycles) even more so.
                  If only the Angara launch vehicle itself will become cheaper, but I doubt it
                  PH proton for 10 years has risen in price 5 times (from 2003 to 2013)
                  FSUE “State Space Research and Production Center named after M.V. Khrunichev "(GKNPTS im. Khrunichev). According to information on recent missile production orders, the price for them is fixed, it is indexed annually. In 2013, the company as the sole contractor at the starting price of the order 1 509 826 000 rub. won competitions for the production of two rockets for Roscosmos. The execution date of both contracts is November 19, 2015. In 2012, five Proton-M rockets were ordered from the GKNPTS at a price of 1 436 560 000 rubles. for each (delivery time - by November 2014 year), in 2011 year - three rockets of 1 348 067 300 rubles. with delivery for November 2013. Information on orders for Proton-M from 2009 to 2010. Interfax could not be found. In 2008, Proton-M cost 1 123 million rubles.


                  2010: France ordered Russia 14 Soyuz carrier rockets with a total cost of $ 1 billion without fuel
                  And when the start-up with fuel and margin cost in my 15 $ million
                  1. opus
                    24 May 2016 12: 38 New
                    +2
                    Quote: srelock
                    "By eye", the decision is not heavier than the past.

                    BETTER, definitely
                    if the fuel pipeline (kerosene) passes through a tank of liquid oxygen, it must be insulated, and this is the weight.
                    By the way, according to the nonsense of Konanykhin (in the 2 part) there is a complete lack of brains for his admirer RUS what is there number in the account (who squeezed that article)

                    Quote: Konanykhin
                    quite by accident, you take out from wide legs kerosene and oxygen subcooling technology - so at least a few percent of the fuel and oxidizer can be shoved more into the same tanks - while you are silent about the price of such a technology -

                    kerosene supercool? belay
                    that solid state probably? fool
                    Quote: Konanykhin
                    Fakinshit. Riley Fakinshit.

                    But from the "aesthetic-engineering point", balancing aerodynamics is not ice.
                    I think money, it was necessary at all costs to make Angrau a little more competitive (and she loses $ per kg to everyone and the proton and the Union, and in my Falcon. Somewhere in the Arian region hangs)
              2. srelock
                srelock 24 May 2016 01: 12 New
                +1
                Quote: opus
                we have more.
                1. They have factories on their side to the SK at hand, logistics!
                We are building in the center - taken to Vostochny / Baikonur
                they have the sea we have Toko railway.
                If by plane: they have 14000 runways, we have about 300, distances again
                2. They do not need to heat the workshops, if only they cool in the heat (and the heat pump is cheaper to the heater, like 1 to 3), from 40 ° C to 20 ° C (Delta 20 ° C)
                We have 13 months out of 12 winter, well, almost.
                It is necessary to heat from -20 ° C to at least + 15 ° C (delta 35 ° C)
                Our cold weather also affects the cost of a communal apartment (houses, kindergarten, school, bus), all this is on the shoulders of the city-forming one, our proletariat needs to eat more (cold)
                3. They steal less
                4. Technological base. They say they need to make a squiggle, 5 seconds for 5 cents (well, Tesla and E-mobile are an example of TomU)
                we have: a year to look for, order in China, get a poop.
                Something like that...

                On these points, you can argue for a very long time and come to nothing. The main thing is that as a result, products of heavy engineering (LRE including) produced by the Russian Federation on the international market are usually the best option in terms of price / quality ratio.
                1. opus
                  24 May 2016 12: 41 New
                  +3
                  Quote: srelock
                  RF production on the international market is usually the best option in terms of price / quality ratio.

                  1. Russia does not take into account the life cycle and the fact that it all went to the USSR (and there was such a waste on the shield).
                  Everything is now private-state. But if you count the costs of the USSR for these products (as they consider), such a price will not be
                  2. Russia dumping, it does not have a margin (normal), To invest in the NIRR, development.
                  Which basically showed:
                  We didn't even take advantage of the "death of Sttl" and the monopoly on manned flights.
                  All "about trampolines" .... and the Angara (not ice) only last year.
                  So judge
                  1. srelock
                    srelock 24 May 2016 21: 52 New
                    0
                    I think that it is not correct to compare Angara A5 and Falcon 1.1. Its analogue for PN is Angara A3, and it has 3 URM, i.e. the cost of the 1st stage is 40% lower than that of the A5. The total cost of the PH (if we apply the "universal" factor 0,7) is reduced by 20%. As a result, we have a Falcon ratio of 1.1 5500 $ / kg. on LEO,
                    Hangar A3 $ 5300 / kg. in the same place. And if you recall that the first Proton was 3 times more expensive than the current one, the Union is 3,5 times more expensive than the serial ... The hangar is promised 20% cheaper than the Proton in the series.
                    http://www.aex.ru/fdocs/2/2015/7/28/26067/
                    Now on the engines. I had one thought ...
                    RD-191 (you can estimate it relative to any other), weight 2500kg., Total flow rate through the turbine unit 533kg / s., Pressure in the compressor station 263atm., Thrust 196tf.
                    Merlin 1D weight 450-500kg., Consumption 244kg / s., Pressure in the compressor station 100 atm., Thrust 67tf.
                    Merlin's flow rate is two times less than the RD => less turbine mass, size of compressor station, nozzle, etc. => the mass of the engine is twice less. The pressure in the Merlin CS is 2,6 times less => the required thicknesses of all walls are reduced by 2,6. We get 2500/2 / 2,6 = 480 (kg). Specific materials are used in the RD. temperature in COP 3500K. and closed. cycle, in Merlin can be cheaper than Tcs ~ 2500K. and open cycle.
                    The method is certainly from the category of "finger-ass-ceiling", but those. We won't see the documentation soon. If the above is true, then Merlin is the same disposable motor as all the others, and this circumstance explains why the option with a parachute system did not work. It is more profitable to "burn out" the engines, albeit with add. fuel, than to attach a separate rescue system with solid propellant rocket motors and inflatable cylinders, besides, the 1st stage will still swim in the ocean.
                    In general terms, Musk's idea is as follows: reduce the cost of the engines to the maximum and in consumption, and we will save the "macaroni", the thermodynamic limit does not prevent her from increasing the resource good
                    No ... He has everything squeezed out. will only go up.
                    Merlin-price will fall with the number of issues
                    I do not agree. RD-191 was not used anywhere except 3xKSLV-1 and tests.
                    http://www.npoenergomash.ru/dejatelnost/engines/rd191/
                    Will go into series with the hangar, therefore it will become cheaper.
                    The fixed tariffs for final contracts for serial products as an example - not to the cash register, they should rise in price, inflation is the same.
                    But from the "aesthetic-engineering point", aerodynamics of balancing is not ice
                    Well, this pipe, midsection, surface area, distribution (rule) of areas - fractions of a percent, and appearance - to paint and forget, and it’s easier and I suspect that the main reason for the removal is the location of the nozzles on the engine.
                    By the way, regarding the supercooled oxidant for 1D +. Have you noticed the mix ratios for RD and Merlin? After all, liquefied oxygen is 1,141 kg / liter, kerosene - 0,85 kg / liter. The cost of oxygen is 10k rubles per ton, TS-1 kerosene is 30k rubles. A trifle of course, but nice :)
                    _________________________________________________

                    I remembered here one good igruha, or rather, an advertising proposal came in the mail, it used to hang, and then everyone ran away and I also abandoned it.
                    eveonline.com It seems that you like this topic, only do not watch the advertising trailers, there is no action in the game.
    2. opus
      23 May 2016 14: 15 New
      11
      Quote: HollyGremlin
      Each circumvents difficult moments

      Not true.
      1. I did not go around anything .. There was no such task. I refuted Konerikhin's vyser.
      within the limits of volume (and so on the 2 part I ran high)
      2. I tried to write difficult moments (namely, on the return stage) in an article which was not published on the topwar, but I did not save. Daughter pulled for a student in LUT from her and threw the same thing, but there is a different task, and she has a student in English - who needs him)
      Quote: HollyGremlin
      In the right places do not give links

      Not true. I have all the links, let the mouse down and poke (on the little red one)




      Even the manual for Appolo uploaded to the article

      dumb Bongo taught me this. Thanks to him.
      But my oponent with links trouble.
      Only tweeter Ilona Mask belay .
      And then he lied with the translation
      List of "used sites" and where the infa came from at the end of part2
      Quote: HollyGremlin
      Conclusion: aftors go through the forest with such an analysis.

      Why are you doing this?
      I’m like that Ottuddava came out! Even the padded jacket is not snl yet.
      Give a bit of civilization
      1. HollyGremlin
        HollyGremlin 23 May 2016 17: 47 New
        +2
        2. I tried to write difficult moments (precisely in terms of the returning stage) in an article which was not published on Topvar, but I did not save. The daughter pulled for her student in LUT from her and threw the same thing, but there is a different task, and she has a student in English - who needs him (English)

        Is the dog eaten homework, surprisingly close.
        I will not analyze all the points - it is very tiring, just a couple of facts:
        "I don't understand. What did the author want to say? That we are all UO, and he is very well educated? HZ. Let's write off the author's sexual concern, for example." - this is not a transition to personalities?
        About the mass of satellites, I really want statistics, for some reason, many satellites in the specifications have 2-6 tons, launched in 2015-2016. About orders for 2-3 years, a reference would be nice too ...
        And beautiful red links with beautiful blue arrows, I already knew how to click at school. The main thing is a bigger answer - that's why in the article and the answer "I even uploaded the manual on Appolo to the article" - but there is a fact and a reference too, well, great.
  14. sir_obs
    sir_obs 23 May 2016 12: 02 New
    +3

    Meeting with staff / alumni of the Massachusetts Institute of Technology (Massachusetts Institute of Technology, MIT). In my opinion, neither clowns, nor "dudes", and even more so, "writers" -diffamers are not invited there?

    At the elite US Naval Academy in Annapolis (United States Naval Academy) in full earnest study (included in the program) the works of the former bank clerk Tom Clancy. He became known for the novel "The Hunt for Red Okbyabrem", then Ostap suffered and he gave out a number of similar ones. He definitely has a talent as a writer, since he writes complete nonsense about the combat means of the fleet and the tactics of their use by the Soviet Union and now Russia, but they are STUDYED in an elite educational institution. And this is not just an elite academy, it is a caste, where the way is forbidden for a random citizen.


    1. opus
      23 May 2016 14: 52 New
      +3
      Quote: sir_obs
      He became known for the novel "The Hunt for Red Okbyabrem", then Ostap suffered and he gave out a number of similar ones. He definitely has a talent for writing, as he writes

      The hunt for KO -figna.
      But Red Storm Rising "Red Storm Rises" is not a bad thing


      (there are a lot of jambs and the "good guys" will win, of course, but their son is forever)

      However:
      1.Analysis of the chemical infection of Europe and the death of the German Democratic Republic in particular when using the USSR chemical weapons - norms
      2. Work of submarines, Aviation (MIGs for some reason lose Ф-4 belay ) The work of the "Hammer" from the GAB to the submarine.
      3. And the most masterpiece is Operation "Northern Hammer" (if not forgotten) Our capture of Iceland and the breakage of the GISH line.
      The work of our missiles

      4.Work TU-22 for AUG

      and the defeat of the AUG
      1. sir_obs
        sir_obs 23 May 2016 23: 33 New
        0
        They know how to shoot action, it is interesting to watch, but cinema and reality look somewhat different. Just like many analysts, the author uses open sources in his research, where there is more Artistic "fiction. This is natural, the average person does not need to go into details, they need a beautiful A professional will be guided by the intelligence data and the corresponding normative documents of the enemy obtained by it, for example, will study the combat manual or the corresponding tactical manuals.
        For example, when I was still in college, the British were at war with the Argentines over the islands. In the classes on fleet tactics, we were told what was happening there and how, precisely in terms of the tactics of the forces and means of the opposing sides, but it never occurred to anyone to use someone’s artistic research.

        At one time we all read Pikul's novels, especially on the nautical theme6 Moonsund, Cruiser. Three ages of Okishi-san. And despite the fact that the author worked seriously with the archives, it was a work of art, which shows that the author himself did not serve in the navy, although at the end of the war he was a cabin boy in the Northern Fleet on the destroyer Grozny and was awarded the medal "For Victory over Germany ", after the war he was sent to St. Petersburg in the naval school, but in 1946 he was expelled" for lack of knowledge. " Further, he linked his fate with historical literature and really succeeded in this field. BUT nobody studies the history or actions of the navy on the dew of its novels.
      2. Bongo
        Bongo 24 May 2016 02: 10 New
        +3
        Quote: opus
        The hunt for KO -figna.
        But Red Storm Rising "Red Storm Rises" is not a bad thing

        T. Clancy is not bad where he does not go into technical details too much: "Games of the Patriots", "Direct Obvious Threat", "All the Fears of the World."
    2. mav1971
      mav1971 23 May 2016 15: 51 New
      +4
      [quote = sir_obs] [quote]
      Meeting with staff / alumni of the Massachusetts Institute of Technology (Massachusetts Institute of Technology, MIT). In my opinion, neither clowns, nor "dudes", and even more so, "writers" -diffamers are not invited there?
      [/ Quote]
      In the elite naval school of the USA in Annapolis (United States Naval Academy), they study in full earnestness (included in the program) the works of the former bank clerk Tom Clancy.

      Do you have any evidence?
      Can you present a curriculum or curriculum?

      It's just that I only hear this nonsense about Clancy from jingoistic patriots. (by the way, the same category as "Cook and Khibiny"). Conclusion - a notion aimed at denigrating and understating the level of training of American officers.
  15. ans
    ans 23 May 2016 12: 05 New
    +1
    The author of the text wanted to say something ... that he was offended by Konanykhin ... for n ___ tan !? American fan, perhaps ...?
    1. Fegelein
      Fegelein 23 May 2016 12: 40 New
      +1
      obviously it’s not easier to land a rocket as a shuttle accelerator in water by parachute
    2. Fegelein
      Fegelein 23 May 2016 12: 40 New
      0
      obviously it’s not easier to land a rocket as a shuttle accelerator in water by parachute
    3. opus
      23 May 2016 14: 59 New
      +3
      Quote: ans
      American fan, perhaps ...?

      not:

      (I got drunk the same yesterday)

      After drinking for ours, he wrote to a good person in America

      (sorry if offended nat. feelings, the last glass was clearly superfluous)

      You shouldn’t be so
      -----------------------------------------------

      I'm just a "Byashka fighter for the truth"

  16. Altona
    Altona 23 May 2016 12: 09 New
    +5
    From the video with Musk, I am impressed by his humor and critical attitude towards himself and his activities. I especially liked the phrase that "at the level of intuition, I will invite an engineer to manage, and not a so-called" manager ". Because management is not due to possession of an MBA degree, but maybe even in spite of it." Since he was not a heating engineer himself, he did not understand both articles. What did Konanykhin write and how did Opus oppose him? As for the "return of the first stage," it is certainly tempting economically, but so far it is technically debatable.
    PS At the Musk plant, I didn't see much. Showed the fairings of the warheads. He showed the fuel tanks, then the area where they are wound with water protection. In the distance I saw a semblance of a gas cutter, though I didn't understand why he was there. Well, everything is clean and relative. But it looks more like an experimental site, there is not enough equipment, there are some small mobile stands around. The tanks themselves are small, at Yuzhmash they cook such monsters, three times more. In general, the plant is like a plant, nothing special. You wouldn't even think that it was a rocket.
    1. Leto
      Leto 23 May 2016 12: 33 New
      +8
      Is it worth it to take seriously articles in which the analysis of something is carried out as emotionally as possible with the use of derogatory expressions (especially with the mention of the term "cut")?
      The author is certainly well done, but it is pointless to struggle with gorlopanism, because it is designed for an audience that is not able to use its brain for its intended purpose.
  17. Alexez
    Alexez 23 May 2016 12: 21 New
    +5
    The first article was funny. This is not at all funny, but a reason to think. But I have doubts of a different plan.
    1. Will the same engine subjected to overloads and other influences during the previous flight operate with the same reliability?
    2. How much does it cost to dismantle, transport, retest, repair, etc. reusable parts? In other words, is operation economically viable?
    3. As I understand it, the fuel supply is not just made, where every extra kilogram is literally worth its weight in gold. It’s not a reasonable idea to use it for landing, because suddenly it’s not enough, i.e. to this stock you need to have another stock for fidelity.
    4. The rocket is exactly what is or is hanging on the launch pad and does not experience any overloads. And here there are many tons and acceleration, and even all sorts of other factors, from the weather to the pitching of the landing platform ... It is logical to assume that there is still more weight in connection with the strengthening of the points of attachment of landing supports.

    Well, the conclusion (mine, of course): to return the entire first stage as a whole is IMHO not justified, but the main elements of this stage are engines, it makes sense. As an example, after the execution of the program, the "return module" with engines is fired and returned back to Earth.
    1. Altona
      Altona 23 May 2016 12: 28 New
      +1
      Quote: Alexez
      As an example, after the execution of the program, the "return module" with engines is fired and returned back to Earth.

      -----------------------
      We have one thought with you. How to make a semblance of a reusable cartridge or module from "returnable" motors? To which it is easy to attach a disposable fuel module.
  18. voyaka uh
    voyaka uh 23 May 2016 12: 33 New
    +6
    Konanykhin’s article was - so obvious dirty and base libel
    which refute is somehow ridiculous.
    1. opus
      23 May 2016 15: 08 New
      +2
      Quote: voyaka uh
      Konanykhin’s article was - so obvious dirty and base libel

      and here ?

      He’s completely different (such a sweetheart)
      full version here:
      http://radiovesti.ru/episode/show/episode_id/39538
      I recommend FM to everyone, cool materials. But here D.Medvedev in his corner seems screwed up
  19. black
    black 23 May 2016 12: 33 New
    +4
    A dispute between two engineers? One is fun, easy and with humor. The second is very serious and pedantic. But now, when the author of this opus popped up to defend Bookkeeping Mask ??? After I figured out what is the securitization of woodwork. The financial statements of American companies, I do not trust. And the purchase of own shares can be regarded either as an attempt to avoid bankruptcy, or as fraud. Or all together.
    1. opus
      23 May 2016 15: 15 New
      +3
      Quote: black
      One is fun, easy and with humor. The second is very serious and pedantic

      I speak better than I write, but I speak generally terribly.
      God did not give talent.
      I read Kaptsova O. (sweet Six): fun, entertaining, textured (Konanykhin is not suitable for him), I try to copy the style (quietly, just don’t tell him, otherwise I’ll get a couple million out of my fees).
      "Born to crawl, cannot fly"
      And it’s such a writer’s itch ...

      449 articles !!!!
      For 4 years, for 130 articles a year
      I always put him +, hell for zeal.
      wink

      Quote: black
      But now, when the author of this opus popped up to defend Bookkeeping Mask ???

      I cannot distinguish a debit from a loan. But Konanykhin then claimed (cuts / and Chernukha is continuous)
      Interested in ...
      Quote: black
      I do not trust.

      I have the same job as my accountant ...
      VAT is still (8 months already checked, how long is it possible?) Have not been returned to me for export ... I’ll insert it
    2. mav1971
      mav1971 23 May 2016 15: 54 New
      +2
      Quote: black
      And the purchase of own shares can be regarded either as an attempt to avoid bankruptcy, or as fraud. Or all together.


      Repurchase of own shares by the company is an absolutely normal practice in world business.
      And with us too.

      So you read poorly ...
  20. Zomanus
    Zomanus 23 May 2016 12: 37 New
    +2
    I liked the first article more.
    Two problems that I personally saw in this project.
    The first one. The more we refine the rocket,
    the more the "dead" load of fuel that is required to return it.
    The second one. we cannot accurately predict the damage,
    which the rocket will receive during the round-trip flight.
    It’s read that the missiles that are mounted on military aircraft,
    carry only a certain number of landings with them.
    And this is a small rocket that just hangs on the mount.
    And here it is quite so active depreciation, with various external conditions.
    1. opus
      23 May 2016 15: 57 New
      +4
      Quote: Zomanus
      It’s read that the missiles that are mounted on military aircraft,
      carry only a certain number of landings with them.

      there is another problem.
      1. These are rockets with solid propellant rocket engines
      2. TPK (heating air conditioning, like Topol-M and Yars) is not there
      1 + 2 cycles of temperature changes and humidity (for solid fuels - criticism)
      From + 35gC on the runway to -60g C above
      Humidity 99% to 2%
      3.GOS degradation (especially optical) from free air flow (dust, erosion), look at Brimstone heads

      The Air Force has already eaten the brain MDBA for the yellowed glass cases of the seeker
      4.Not long-life BIP
      5. Although cyclic loads (especially not typical not along the axis of the solid propellant but across) and affect the solid propellant is garbage.
      when landing (hit on the runway) max 1,2G in my opinion (otherwise the chassis is a tube)
      max shortening at take-off 3 g?
      And AIM-120 D has an operational overload of 40g
  21. Wild Horror
    Wild Horror 23 May 2016 12: 42 New
    +4
    The deed undoubtedly pushes American science forward and upward (to my deepest annoyance and regret). Following the logic of some authors and commentators, a large collider is also an expensive and worthless thing. And we have potatoes and deripassa ...
  22. Fegelein
    Fegelein 23 May 2016 12: 43 New
    0
    Further "simultaneously or initially" this opus can not be read ...
  23. evil partisan
    evil partisan 23 May 2016 12: 54 New
    +7
    Thanks to the authorhi.
    But I, as a flaw detectorist, kill God I can’t imagine: such a fool belay to defect after the flight ??
    And again: I really do not envy No. to the person who, by the totality of the results of non-destructive testing of all parts of this hut sad will write "Good" and sign under the ACT or the Conclusion or whatever they have ...
    1. opus
      23 May 2016 15: 19 New
      +4
      Quote: Angry Guerrilla
      to defect after the flight ??

      possible ultrasound control
      gamma can
      You can analogue "FGDS"
      Quote: Angry Guerrilla
      will write "Good" and sign under the ACT or Conclusion or whatever they have ..

      there were such people! SRB and Columbia Space Shuttle


      After all, someone signed the "Aktik"?
      1. evil partisan
        evil partisan 23 May 2016 17: 53 New
        +2
        Quote: opus
        possible ultrasound control

        Can you imagine the volume? belay Well, what kind of robot ... what
        Quote: opus
        After all, someone signed the "Aktik"?

        Still sit still ... sad
        1. opus
          23 May 2016 23: 42 New
          +4
          Quote: Angry Guerrilla
          Can you imagine the volume? Well, except what kind of robot ...

          I saw it live.

          1. And so with us.
          The first radiation flaw detector was introduced in 1933 at the Baltic Shipyard by the inventor L.V. Mysovsky and was used for detecting casting defects in thick metal plates for Migge-Perroi furnaces
          2. In each tank there is a technological hatch (wiping with alcohol, collect the lint from the intake) SURT and sensors DUZ "O", WPC "G"

          all is access testing testing
          Gamma flaw detectors are compact

          and at the same time allow:
          Accelerator UEL-10-D in the shop of the Izhora plant, St. Petersburg, 2010 "under examination"


          can be ultrasound


          Electrospark flaw detectors PHD 1-30


          "FGDS"

          Quote: Angry Guerrilla
          Well, what kind of robot ...

          and the robot then.
          1. opus
            23 May 2016 23: 47 New
            +4
            but generally simple:
            1. markers - geometry
            2.Pressure, withstand leakage
            3. Well, if there is a desire in the old way: kerosene, do you remember how the caissons for garages were checked before digging?
            And so for reference RD-180 (and all) before going abroad
            HOT CYCLE tests up to 0,7 to 1,2 nominal, T 30% of the design, then removal from the stand, alcohol, flushing, checking (if that is a replacement), packing on an airplane


            Now only kerosene-oxygen is set on fire.

            Ecology, obschestvennost.
            But once the Protonovsky drove.
          2. evil partisan
            evil partisan 24 May 2016 05: 20 New
            +2
            Thank you! hi Very interesting. I myself am now purely through the pipes, by horned mostly 1420 mm. I work. He lagged behind new technologies of NK ... Missiles also had a chance to control in due time. But our missiles were much smaller ... Yes, there was no particular exoticism in the equipment: ultrasonic testing (UD 2-12), RK (stationary x-ray cameras), capillary. In general, the whole set ...
  24. itvs
    itvs 23 May 2016 12: 57 New
    +6
    I have a diploma from Moscow State Technical University, engineer-designer of the department PM-1 rocket science.
    The article by Konanykhin, despite being written in the genre of banter, is quite technically competent. But opusa claims are sheer populism. A rocket in flight is experiencing gigantic vibration loads. Resonant frequencies and points of their concentration are a terrible dream for the designer. Calculating the strength of a static structure is an understandable and simple task. To calculate how all this will behave in flight, under vibration, thermal stresses causing changes in the strength characteristics of structural materials (another nightmare) - the task is 2 orders of magnitude more complicated! Therefore, to say sitting on the couch - but let's hook the supports to the engine mount point - this is the level of kindergarten
    1. aiw
      aiw 23 May 2016 14: 11 New
      +2
      Well, if you are a graduate, you will appreciate the load during take-off (when the rocket is loaded to the eyeballs) and during landing (when it is an empty tin can).

      If nothing takes off during take-off, what problems will there be during landing with a mass two orders of magnitude smaller?
    2. opus
      23 May 2016 15: 32 New
      +4
      Quote: itvs
      I have a diploma from Moscow State Technical University, engineer-designer of the department PM-1 rocket science.

      there used to be a "mechanical engineer" (and a development engineer ", but this is an option +1,2 year, no longer)? Has something changed?
      Quote: itvs
      - quite technically competent

      Do not make me laugh.
      For this alone
      Quote: Konanykhin
      Therefore, in your pocket you accidentally find the old Nasovskie drawings of the old engine from the American lunar landing module (who said the patents? Who said the stands?) And take this engine as the main cruiser.

      Full paragraph.
      I am tormented by doubts about
      Quote: itvs
      I have a diploma from Moscow State Technical University, engineer-designer of the department PM-1 rocket science.


      Take D. Konanykhin's "technically competent" article and visit E1.1 (I don’t know what it’s called now.
      Kudryavtsev Vladimir Mikhailovich is already gone (died), Polyaev VM is the same.
      But people are there. You will be popularly explained

      Quote: itvs
      Therefore, to say sitting on the couch - but let's hook the supports to the engine mount point - this is the level of kindergarten


      my course students were "Calculation of THA RD *** by the method of conformal display followed by visualization on the monitor and preparation of input data for *** with CNC ***" on SM-4 (you probably don't know, sho tse also SM-4_)
      More K.: "Application of porous tanks for ISS Buran" ".
      Something like this, I don’t remember exactly, in collaboration with another student.
      Something else and so on.
      So do not la la
      Threat. I can’t sit on the couch, I don’t have a couch ...
      Quote: itvs
      Therefore, to say sitting on the couch - but let's hook the supports to the engine mount point - this is the level of kindergarten

      We look carefully where they are "attached"
      1. region58
        region58 23 May 2016 17: 16 New
        +3
        Quote: opus
        sho tse take SM-4

        If you are talking about SAP-CM4, then this is how the legs grow from the USSR. Many here are younger. Yes, and a specific product, so that it is widely known.
        1. opus
          23 May 2016 22: 33 New
          +2
          Quote: region58
          Many here are younger. Yes, and a specific product, so that it is widely known.

          Well, we know something ..

          Rђ RІRѕS,
          Quote: itvs
          I have a diploma from Moscow State Technical University, engineer-designer of the department PM-1 rocket science.

          something is silent
          1. Lekov L
            Lekov L 24 May 2016 22: 12 New
            +3
            CM-4 do not touch ..
            I am in the department M4 (then cm4) on cm 4, sorry for the pun, the system programmer worked.
            I knocked on the keys of the "videotone".
            I "thought" in PDP-shnom assembler - I piled a grid from SM and DVK, I attached a digital oscilloscope and a domestic video camera to them - it was called an experiment that was automated ...
            It was a good time! winked
            "when computers were big", and we read fairy tales "for junior researchers" (c) _

            With respect and nostalgia, friends! hi
  25. itvs
    itvs 23 May 2016 12: 59 New
    +1
    Why go personal - and pour mud on the author of another article? It does not honor opus and the editors of the site. In general, the article is very similar to Kaptsov’s opus.
    1. opus
      23 May 2016 22: 46 New
      +2
      Quote: itvs
      and muddy the author of another article? It does not honor opus and the editors of the site.

      I haven’t watered it anywhere
      Quote: itvs
      In general, the article is very similar to Kaptsov’s opus.

      Not .. I'm not a Kaptsov twink.
      (But regarding you
      Quote: itvs
      MSTU diploma design engineer Department of PM-1 rocket science.
      -ME SAY Doubts!) Have you already gone to the department of E1 / called?

      1. Compare him and me! Kaptsov has 450 articles, fun and readable. I have 7, so-so

      I mentioned it in Ch2


      2. Well, I can’t communicate with myself?

      3. Let Kaptsov answer and prove that we are "never we we will not brothers "- were not naturally
  26. edeligor
    edeligor 23 May 2016 13: 03 New
    +5
    Not convinced by the author, not convinced. I agree in one thing, the great and terrible Musk does not stand still, he works, unlike us, who use the developments of the USSR. Where is "Angara", where is "Federation"? Slowly, very slowly! With such lively ones like Musk, you can be left far behind in our still native space of space launches.
  27. region58
    region58 23 May 2016 13: 07 New
    +6
    In 1985, the New York Times reported the tragic decline of a once-promising invention - laptops. Small computers seemed unviable due to their heavy weight, expensive price and short battery life.
    People did not want to carry a heavy computer with them and preferred to spend time waiting or relaxing with a light newspaper, reading the latest news or sports events.

    In 1902, the New York Times called the car an impractical vehicle, primarily because its prices "will never be so affordable as to make this type of transport as popular as the bike used to be."

    In 1928, President of the American Union of Artists Joseph Schenck wrote in the New York Times that “there is no room for chatter in the cinema,” being sure that dubbing films is an empty entertainment
    As early as 1867, at the dawn of "talking cinema," actress Mary Astor and her colleagues were sure that the sounds would "drive the audience out of the cinema", and the success of the first sound film, "Jazz Singer," seemed to be insanity.

    The first liquid nail polish, which is now sold at every turn, was proposed in 1917 by Cutex. At first, journalists either called such cosmetics “London fad”, or tried to assess how harmful the varnish was compared to the powder and paste used to polish nails.

    Sound familiar?
    1. voyaka uh
      voyaka uh 23 May 2016 16: 21 New
      +9
      "Does it look like anything?" ////

      Very reminiscent of ...
      A massive attack on Ilana Mask is just because of
      the scale and innovation of his enterprises.
      He will kick out of the game, that in space, that in the automotive industry of many
      key players. Nervous ... and entire countries, and major firms.
      1. Simple
        Simple 23 May 2016 16: 36 New
        +2
        I agree with you: +.
        But explain to me how sideways are these 2 arguing authors for this international competition in space, in the automotive industry?
        Musk paid the opus, and Martin locked up Kononykhin?
      2. user1212
        user1212 23 May 2016 19: 41 New
        0
        Quote: voyaka uh
        He will kick out of the game, that in space, that in the automotive industry of many
        key players. Nervous ... and entire countries, and major firms.

        Well, let's leave space, but in the automotive industry, who does he threaten? The loss of Tesla in 15 year is almost a billion dollars. Sales did not exceed 50tys pcs. Even Lada sold 300 thousand units in the 15 year, and Tayota more than 8 million cars
        http://serega.icnet.ru/CarSaleAuto_2015_World.html
        http://ru.investing.com/equities/tesla-motors-income-statement
        1. mav1971
          mav1971 23 May 2016 20: 02 New
          +1
          Quote: user1212
          Quote: voyaka uh
          He will kick out of the game, that in space, that in the automotive industry of many
          key players. Nervous ... and entire countries, and major firms.

          Well, let's leave space, but in the automotive industry, who does he threaten? The loss of Tesla in 15 year is almost a billion dollars. Sales did not exceed 50tys pcs. Even Lada sold 300 thousand units in the 15 year, and Tayota more than 8 million cars
          http://serega.icnet.ru/CarSaleAuto_2015_World.html
          http://ru.investing.com/equities/tesla-motors-income-statement


          Have you seen the Tesla price tag in America?
          Compare her with a fret? It's ridiculous.
          Tesla is actually almost breaking even. She indirectly earns on Tesla’s technology in the form of SolarCity’s business.
          2016 year - will definitely be a plus even in the automotive segment.
          Please note. that she spend almost 500-600mln dollars annually on R&D.
          And you would have looked at the value of the shares.
          The growth dynamics from 20 to 350 and now at 220 dollars per share for 4 of the year - you know, this is more than a serious indicator. and no one is selling the stock ...
          1. fzr1000
            fzr1000 23 May 2016 21: 18 New
            +1
            76500 bucks costs Tesla C in the USA. More expensive than Escalade - 72970. Tesla is unprofitable, and not weak. Till.
            And most of all Americans are interested in products of the automobile industry such as Ford F150, Dodge Ram and Chevrolet Silverado. The price tag is within $ 37000. They make revenue to concerns.

            And while the batteries are lithium, electric cars will be toys, second cars, etc.


            But ... stepped on the way.
          2. user1212
            user1212 23 May 2016 22: 22 New
            +1
            Quote: mav1971
            She indirectly earns on Tesla’s technology in the form of SolarCity’s business.

            SolaCity is currently as unprofitable as the previous three years. Net profit was $ 58.33 million in the 15th year, and $ -4 million for the last 270 years. The total loss of both companies over 4 years is almost $ 2 billion.
            Quote: mav1971
            And you would have looked at the stock price

            Dotcom shares also grew from 95 to 2000, and even at a fast pace.
  28. Ayujak
    Ayujak 23 May 2016 13: 11 New
    +5
    Both articles are interesting. The first is humor, the second is a true womb. The expression facing.shit is purely American. laughing I have nothing against Ilon Mask. I will even be very glad if he manages to send an expedition to Mars. I would like to catch it while I'm alive.
    1. Altona
      Altona 23 May 2016 15: 24 New
      0
      Quote: AYUJAK
      The expression facing.shit is purely American.

      ----------------------
      It depends on which audience it is used, it looks more like some Santa Fe, where street niggas-drug dealers (drug dealers) communicate with each other, they have fuck in abundance. In other places, it is just bullshit. It just won't sound as juicy as fuckin 'shit in the article.
  29. Jackking
    Jackking 23 May 2016 13: 38 New
    +2
    The question is - why return the engines (even very expensive ones) if they have practically exhausted their resources (and they are measured in tens of seconds)? If only the author of the article will calculate how much you can save by selling expensive alloys for scrap :)
    1. Altona
      Altona 23 May 2016 15: 27 New
      +2
      Quote: Jackking
      The question is - why return the engines (even very expensive ones) if they have practically exhausted their resources (and they are measured in tens of seconds)? If only the author of the article will calculate how much you can save by selling expensive alloys for scrap :)

      ---------------------
      How to check the degree of sealing and the development of seals, the condition of welds, internal stresses? Here, Evil Partizan, in the guise of a flaw detectorist, responded that no one would vouch for the degree of readiness for a restart.
  30. Zvon
    Zvon 23 May 2016 13: 42 New
    +1
    For general development, both articles are very useful! Truth is born in a dispute! Respect for both authors, and try in the following articles to use less ambition, etc., and more facts and figures! I look forward to continuing!
  31. ramzar
    ramzar 23 May 2016 13: 42 New
    +4
    Both articles are interesting! But why no one notices that Dmitry Konanykhin just shared the Florida Today Space publication. That is, the original article appeared in the United States and is located somewhere here: https://www.facebook.com/FlameTrench/
    1. opus
      23 May 2016 16: 04 New
      +3
      Quote: ramzar
      that Dmitry Konanykhin just shared a Florida Today Space publication. That is, the original article appeared in the United States and is located somewhere here: https://www.facebook.com/FlameTrench/


      That's not true.
      I mentioned this at the beginning.

      here is the Florida Today Space publication:




      And everyone has already clarified:

  32. demiurg
    demiurg 23 May 2016 15: 11 New
    +3
    My personal opinion is how layman, NASA also promised to launch every Shuttle every 2 weeks, and the cost is pretty cheap. But it did not grow together. Neither with launches, nor with the price. Moreover, the Shuttles, despite their beauty, claimed more lives than all other spaceships in history.
    The whole problem of the project is that they try to attach wings to the engine and make them fly. Although Mozhaysky’s plane seemed to fly, it doesn’t mean that the steam engine is ideal for the plane, it doesn’t mean that the idea of ​​the plane is utopian.
    On old fuel, heptyl / kerosene / hydrogen it does not matter, and on drives with the same or comparable efficiency, they try to do something new. With what fright efficiency / cost will fall at times? And this is exactly what Musk promises. Reminiscent of turntables for carburetors in the 90s, sellers promised a reduction in consumption by three to five. For 70 years of the rocket era, no one before him guessed to make return 1 stage?
    1. Simple
      Simple 23 May 2016 17: 08 New
      +1
      "1 step?"
      They tried. Nobody succeeded: pH is the energy of the sidewall.
      Those circuits at the bottom of the parachute systems article are attempts.
      There were also French with a rotary wing.
      As I know from the Hangar. Return work is also underway
  33. abc_alex
    abc_alex 23 May 2016 16: 39 New
    -1
    Actually, in the first article, as for the principles of building Max's rocket department, absolutely common facts. Absolutely no one has ever concealed that Space-X uses ready-made technologies and developments according to NASA programs and, in fact, their only breakthrough in design algorithms. And it doesn't matter at all whether Max Paypal created the Space-X rockets not from scratch, and all this "breakthrough" was initially based on a critical mass of developments in the US and USSR state space programs.

    Well, everything else in the refutation is characterized by pressure, aplomb and in places of outright crap. For example:

    - for a long time there are no satellites of several tons;


    There are such satellites, they are "in service" and even new ones are being developed. Weighing several tons. For example, the KH-11 series. Just in 2013, 16 satellites were launched and it weighs 13 tons.
  34. demiurg
    demiurg 23 May 2016 18: 00 New
    +3
    Why is it necessary to save the first-stage building, who in the know, explain? It’s the engines that cost immeasurable money, so why plant the whole step? All boron cheese flares up due to the return of engines, the tank for fuel and oxidizer cannot be expensive. And in the last topic I asked this question, and here I will ask.
    Engines can be lowered easily and naturally in any way, both on the drive and with a parachute, even wings and landing gear can be attached, the height can easily be changed to speed and flight range. What for sure to plant a barrel of fuel?
    Is there anyone who is a rocketeer? In return, I can tell you about the drive for sectional doors and barriers. hi
    1. Gloomstar
      Gloomstar 23 May 2016 20: 18 New
      -1
      And if you land on Mars and with the crew on board, it’s much easier to start the old engines than to drag an entire rocket with you, throw the old one off and fly away on the new one, but I’m as figurative as one of the options, because Bason Higgs is looking for something, although we will not get any practical benefit from this
    2. opus
      23 May 2016 23: 07 New
      +3
      Quote: demiurg
      Why is it necessary to save the first-stage building, who in the know, explain? It’s the engines that cost immeasurable money, so why plant the whole step? All boron cheese flares up due to the return of engines, the tank for fuel and oxidizer cannot be expensive. And in the last topic I asked this question, and here I will ask.

      1. I almost answered in the article

      The first step is the BIGGEST, the MOST EXPENSIVE, the BIGGEST.
      Do you think it costs a penny?

      Even the Soyuz launch vehicle
      2010: France ordered Russia 14 Soyuz carrier rockets totaling $ 1 billion.
      No fuel clear stump
      2013 Forbes: Proton-M Booster for 10 years has risen in price 5 times

      Commercial production cost the Proton-M launch vehicle has grown 10-fold over 5 years, if in 2003 the cost of production of the rocket, reflected in contracts with customers, was $ 8 million, by 2013 this amount increased to $ 40 millionNo fuel clear stump
      2.How are you going to separate the LRE (9-unit falcon LRE) from the carrier tanks?
      Who will decide to place the squibs in the zone of the compressor station, ТНА and pipeline fittings? and not Fuck ** T?
      There is always fuel left in the tanks. The igniter will fire; the remaining rocket engine will be damaged, the parachute will burn
      3. By parachute ...
      3..1 If there is a liquid-propellant engine, how can a parachute unit be placed in the same zone? It's "hot" there, and there is no place. Rocket engines barely fit

      The paratrooper meets the ground at 5-7 m / s, equipment up to 15 m / s.
      I’m afraid the bearings will fly off at the TNA, the fittings will bend, and be twisted in the nozzle of the LRE.
      3.2.If you save a stage and a liquid-propellant rocket engine by parachute, so that the tanks would crumble when hitting the ground to absorb the energy of the touch, how to make them turn with their "nose", and not the rocket engine towards the Earth? LRE is heavier!
      4. Parashyut and LRE on it.
      You saw how they are looking for a descent spacecraft from orbit.
      There the trajectory is strictly predicted, calculated.
      And sometimes they look for a long time, the astronauts train to land: in the forest, in the swamp, in the water, on the mountain, etc.
      Now imagine a block of liquid propellant rocket detached descends HZG and HZK.
      -I will look for a hundred years
      -and if I enter into the swamp about stones = JORD disappeared
      -on LRE as a rule hot (up to 100grS), it is a guaranteed fire at the landing site (if not in the water).
      Well, something like this: because .. hi
  35. Ajent cho
    Ajent cho 23 May 2016 19: 16 New
    -1
    Posted by Anton (Opus)
    Eck you, the author, poked! Don't be jealous - then you don't have to spend a lot of time on the so-called. "exposure". And yes - in vain you gave an example about Deripaska and others. Tell why? However, you can guess it yourself.
    1. mav1971
      mav1971 23 May 2016 20: 04 New
      +2
      Quote: Ajent Cho
      Posted by Anton (Opus)
      Eck you, the author, poked! Don't be jealous - then you don't have to spend a lot of time on the so-called. "exposure". And yes - in vain you gave an example about Deripaska and others. Tell why? However, you can guess it yourself.


      What kind of words?
      What did you want to say?
      1. opus
        23 May 2016 23: 51 New
        +2
        Quote: mav1971
        What did you want to say?

        SchA the beer will slurp proksimnogo add.
        What can he say then?


        and so all 782 vyser ...
        Diagnosis "EKE victim in a state of intoxication"
        Sadness
        1. Ajent cho
          Ajent cho 24 May 2016 17: 16 New
          0
          Victim ECE
          What is ECE?
      2. Ajent cho
        Ajent cho 24 May 2016 17: 21 New
        +1
        What did you want to say?
        Who needs - he understood. But this does not apply to mental abilities - it's just that you and I are not on the same wavelength.
  36. kugelblitz
    kugelblitz 23 May 2016 19: 52 New
    +2
    Uncle! Here you are torn !!! Already the article dashed off in defense !!! I had a ban from the noble Russophobia Verola for my opinion, and then there are the correct comments, and the famous Green Cat jumper finally lay down. Finally, the article about pasta itself was taken by me critically, for example, although it is clear where the Apollonian engines came from, namely because of the design of the pin nozzles.
    Last time you tried to prove to me that they say the Merlins are so cheap and effective that you decided to file the latest dvigun closed circuit, damn it, then I was crucified, trying to prove the benefits of closed! Oh yes, your idol and someone’s doll has now chosen these! wassat
    That is to say, although your article is filled with pictures from popular science magazines, it is no better. As well as calling my generation victims of the Unified State Exam, although your desire for the bazaar mess of the 90s, almost cost me a higher education, because I had to survive and study in absentia. You spit on the "scoop", damn it, that gave you the opportunity to get an education! And then they sat in offices and whined about 200 varieties of sausage. Ugh on you !!!
  37. Gloomstar
    Gloomstar 23 May 2016 20: 14 New
    +2
    A wonderful article, it was embarrassing to read the first article, the majority shouted at saw cutters and stuff, engineers called slaves, etc. You do not understand the main thing, they paid the engineers! They developed, did what they liked, all the money that was spent, was spent domestically, and will be returned to the state by taxes and other things, the rocket was finally created, and now imagine how many people got the job, how much they get paid, and you laugh at them, yes you ask any of our engineer, developer and specialist, yes, he’ll be glad to create something like this in our country, but on our site super professionals cut off the Mask and blamed everything that could be, Mask probably stolen and drank the least, he can say ideological, they are driven by a dream, are we many billionaires willing to invest in our engineers? even if the project burns out, but it’s a work in progress, it’s a shame for the future, it’s a shame for our website, how many wonderful professionals have left here, because of the urapatreots and all the prosralitels, people, change your mind, check the information, and do not shout cheers and so on, or extremes to extremes ... It’s good that this article appeared, I’m waiting for the next one, although I don’t agree at some points and with this author, they built a spaceport, held an olympiad, but this is different and let it be done by special people, I hope in the second part the author will be able to analyze the indirect economic component, and now you can find fault with my mistakes in the text and put minuses

    but still let me remind you that the rocket is created, and the return stage is a bun, over which you can argue whether it is needed or not, profitable or not, and you scum a person (I'm talking about the Mask),
  38. Awaz
    Awaz 23 May 2016 20: 46 New
    +1
    I also agree with those who are trying to really understand this topic and not to twitch from one extreme to another.
    What I just read (I am not a specialist in space technology but a little versed in economics) is a strange and incomprehensible attempt to lick one place Mask.
    in one, he’s great for doing something. But so far there are no breakthroughs and something new. This is a banal corruption scheme for cutting dough.
    I repeat once again, the American project of Musk repeats the Soviet system of design bureaus of some surnames, when everyone works for one and if he really creates something, he gets all the gesheft, the rest work for the idea. It's a little bit wrong here, everyone is working for the loot, but really Mask is just PR.
    In general, if he succeeds in doing something, it will be interesting, but for now all this is just PR and politics, involved in cutting the dough that he is being poured.
    In general, as my small offspring says: I’m wang that in a few years, this topic will be pulled with some kind of splash, probably again of dubious quality and then gradually subside.
    Well, you see for yourself, all American programs for some reason do not develop progressively, as in Russia (USSR), but each time almost from scratch with a new concept, which later turn out to be economically ineffective and the "breakthroughs" then fade and disappear. and here it will also most likely end when someone gets tired of feeding this project. But, of course, some kind of real technological breakthrough is possible, but if it is for the sake of it that everything is being built. But from the outside it seems that everything is not done for the sake of technology, everything is done only for the sake of cutting money.
    1. opus
      24 May 2016 11: 47 New
      +3
      Quote: AwaZ
      this is a strange and incomprehensible attempt to lick one place Mask.

      That's not true.
      Where did I "lick"
      Lick like this:
      1: Rector of the Academy of Forestry Viktor Pustovoit announced unexplained natural phenomena in the Ryazan region, where Russian Prime Minister Vladimir Putin 11 on August 2010 personally extinguished fires.

      According to him, the trees affected by the fire again turned green in the places of fires, and flowers blossomed in the glades.
      "This cannot be explained by any natural reasons - under natural conditions, the green massif could not recover at such a speed, it takes decades. And the flowers that have appeared are not typical of mid-August, they bloom in spring. A real miracle."- Globalist quotes the words of Pustovoit.
      2. Or so
      Gennady Khazanov on his personal birthday (!) gave Putin's imperial crown:

      (By the way, I won't say anything about the empire-tory crown, I pedal on "my birthday"
      1. Awaz
        Awaz 24 May 2016 19: 56 New
        +1
        yes no offense. I didn’t seem to say that Musk was a dummy. The fact that this is a talented person, I do not argue. Ostap Bender was also very talented, neither take away nor add.
        I don’t like exactly what many, not understanding the essence, are trying to make an elephant out of a fly. Of all that I see, nothing decisively new has been invented so far. And everything is done with some kind of political subtext.
        Now, if Putin would have made Chubais the head of a private space company and transferred all the acquired technologies to them, and Chubais, collected by the same people who had made the rockets before, would send these rockets to the ISS (modifying the design a bit), I think that you would not jump so joyfully, on the contrary, they would shout about the dough cut and all that and the same thing.
        Musk is probably a good business executive, as they said in the USSR, but not a designer.
        He steals ideas from the world on a thread, and in order for everyone to see some kind of progress, he comes up with a topic with the landing of the first stage. They also seemed to have built a new shuttle, which turned out to be a complete copy of the Soviet one (the Americans even recognized this somewhere)
        I am not trying to justify Russian rocket science. There are also a lot of problems, and there are even more of them than the Americans. Although the main and general problem is the lack of high-quality scientific personnel and production workers as well.
        The Russian at least hovered because of the difficult economic situation, but at the very least poorly trying to do something. Americans have solid PR, and therefore it’s too early to believe characters like Musk
  39. BastaKarapuzik And
    BastaKarapuzik And 23 May 2016 21: 35 New
    +2
    The first satellite into orbit launched a ballistic missile. Why does she need the ability to soft fit? )

    The tasks were completely different. Therefore, we didn’t go the same way as the Space-
    X. Although there is nothing fundamentally new in it, even in any cartoon, rockets ALWAYS land exactly like that.)

    The shuttle did not fully justify itself, although it remained in the history of space exploration. At that time, there was no need for such a large cargo turnover with near space, and now it probably isn’t.
    The promised shuttle cargo shuttle turned out to be very wasteful for routine work.

    Falcon is undoubtedly a certain step forward. Something good may come of it, but disposable media will still be used for a long time.
    The main plus of Falcon is that in addition to entering the market of commercial launches, a variant of the prototype landing system on other planets is being worked out. As stated, an expedition to Mars is being prepared.
    If only he did not step on the same rake as the Shuttle (only smaller).

    The landing system is not necessarily reusable.
    Musk, in principle, well done. Personalities make history. Ford for example, an outstanding personality. He was married to the daughter of a rich dad and father-in-law, at some stage, invested in production, but this does not cancel Henry Ford's obvious, outstanding production and management talent. How many of these were married to the daughters of millionaires / billionaires and have not created anything in their lives? Their darkness.

    The mask, some kind of money, also somehow came, (I don’t know how), but what has changed? I do not agree that he is a doll (or whatever?).

    Americans, of course, are good at PR. This cannot be taken away. But working in the market for such high technologies as rocketry and the auto industry is not to rivet iPhones. IPhones, by the way, are disposable and no attempts to reduce the cost, "save the first stage", so to speak, have yet been observed.

    The main thing is that PR can (and should) be screened out. And its a bit too much. There can be many problems with a control unit, metal fatigue and all that ..

    All IMHO. Thank you for the attention.
  40. demiurg
    demiurg 24 May 2016 04: 01 New
    0
    Quote: opus

    Thanks for the answer hi
    And if we only make the drive saved, why not make the supply (landing) tanks? For the same 1-2 cubic meters of fuel?
    And about the aerodynamic landing. Our Baikal seems to be developing according to such a scheme.
    1. opus
      24 May 2016 11: 41 New
      +3
      Quote: demiurg
      why not make consumable (landing) tanks? On the same 1-2 cube of fuel?

      did not understand .... clarify?
      Quote: demiurg
      Our Baikal seems to be being developed according to such a scheme.

      "under development"!

      There is another mass ("the transition of quantity to quality").


      Pegasus Booster

      From 1990 to 2013, the launch of the Pegas carrier was launched with artificial satellites injected into orbit, of which the launch 42 was unsuccessful and 3 was also partially unsuccessful. Since 2, all 1997 launches have been successful.

      Launch cost (on 1994) - 11 million US dollars
  41. pavelty
    pavelty 24 May 2016 11: 15 New
    0
    The trashy manner of communication of the author crossed out the rational grains contained in the text of the article, why call your opponent "Dimon"? Did you drink vodka together?
    1. opus
      24 May 2016 14: 38 New
      +1
      Quote: pavlentiy
      Cattle way of communicating with the author

      Cattle?
      I deliberately took Konanykhin’s Style / and an amateur copy-paste Facebook Rus№ agent0077777!
      Quote: Konanykhin + Rus№ unknown
      And you, almost the owner of America, a brilliant promoter, cancer who supplied hundreds of thousands of specialists - from On engineer to four-star generals, from PR girls to a dodgy banker from the Bank Which is better to Forget - you understand that you have to endure the end of the presidential term of that too dark guy with a tired look, not get a bullet, not fall out of the window, do not choke on the olive and, God forbid, do not rape the maid.


      Quote: Konanykhin + Rus№ unknown
      THREE WHOLE SEVEN TEN faculty meter. That is all you can. Do you understand? You Lord of the USA cancer put allare forced to reckon with the railway gauge.


      Quote: Konanykhin + Rus№ unknown
      so, everything is ready for divorce suckerin, everyone is ready, charged, discharged and excited.

      But this is their mother rockets! Same faculty planet Earth!

      Something you didn’t excite about
      Quote: pavlentiy
      Cattle style
      Konanykhin + Rus№ unknown
      "Double standarts"?
      Or Konanykhin + Rus№ unknown IKo drank vodka (not not vodka, but sour beer for a brotherhood with Elon Musk, engineers ("cancer") with a rocket, with planet Earth, with a maid at last?
      Quote: pavlentiy
      Why call your opponent "Dimon"? Did you drink vodka together?

      1. In the part of 2 I will also call him, and I will apologize there as well.
      2. I tried to save / reproduce the opponent’s style
      3. I didn’t drink, I’m with Konanykhin + Rus№ unknown and I don’t even sit next to poop ...
  42. Taoist
    Taoist 24 May 2016 12: 06 New
    +4
    Everything is fine, everything is fine, but damn it all the same, explain why the most energy-consuming and difficult method of landing "on fire" was chosen to save the stage? What is its advantage over a bunch of options with aerodynamic braking? My own technical knowledge is not enough to justify such a strange scheme. It is natural when landing on non-atmospheric bodies ... but on Earth?
    1. Rus2012
      Rus2012 24 May 2016 12: 39 New
      +1
      Quote: Taoist
      Everything is fine, everything is fine, but damn it all the same, explain why the most energy-consuming and difficult method of landing "on fire" was chosen to save the stage?

      ... very simple: but effective for the average public! "Mask is a genius of all times and peoples!" :))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))) ))))))))))))))))
      1. Awaz
        Awaz 24 May 2016 19: 57 New
        -1
        here I am about the same .. Trying to inflate a dubious character
    2. kugelblitz
      kugelblitz 24 May 2016 14: 30 New
      +1
      I repost one interesting article to myself in LJH: "Hu from Musk". Read it if you're interested.
      http://tvsexycop.livejournal.com/34962.html
      1. Rus2012
        Rus2012 24 May 2016 14: 40 New
        +2
        Quote: kugelblitz
        http://tvsexycop.livejournal.com/34962.html

        hi
        Taking off my hat! Classwork! :-)

        Man can not without faith.
        If you take it away ...

        /// I would add here - especially if he didn’t have it, well, a militant atheist ... :)))
        Well and further - a crecl-class with the Unified State Exam ...
      2. opus
        25 May 2016 12: 36 New
        +1
        Quote: kugelblitz
        I repost one interesting article to myself in LJH: "Hu from Musk". Read it if you're interested.

        Before you post, at least check out
        1 Source
        http://rusvesna.su/future/1464100651
        2.Author:
        Ruslan V. Karmanov
        3. Search it in google:

        Such shit can be so POPPED that it will not be completely removed for five years.
        I wonder why Rustik (an emigrant from China) doesn’t work for a censor.
        There it is with a bang (but about us)
        And Rusvesna once again got into a mess
    3. opus
      24 May 2016 14: 45 New
      +3
      Quote: Taoist
      Everything is fine, everything is fine, but damn it all the same, explain why the most energy-consuming and difficult method of landing "on fire" was chosen to save the stage?

      in the 2 part, there. But this is purely my amateurish fiction. I think they are convincing.
      Given the economy and Mars, the same
      Quote: Taoist
      What is its advantage over a bunch of options with aerodynamic braking?

      liquid is not to save. All attempts ended in failure, although -combination is possible (again in hours2)

      partially answer here:

      1. Taoist
        Taoist 24 May 2016 15: 27 New
        +3
        Well, as a "airplane pilot" I can say that the most logical thing in this case would be an airplane landing ... They refused reusable ones, not because they "cannot save" but because even such rescue is unprofitable - full reuse is impossible - fault detection and verification after launch is more expensive than making a new one. And it’s definitely easier to use an onboard container for the parachute system than to fence the landing supports ...
        1. opus
          24 May 2016 18: 25 New
          +2
          Quote: Taoist
          Well, as a "airplane pilot" I can say that the most logical thing in this case would be an airplane landing ...

          1. The wing weighs the same (- PN) and the vertical tail is necessary and the tail is desirable
          2. Where to remove it while the marching section
          3. How then to go on a planning flight, so as not to go into a tailspin (Falcon at the finish line of dispersal 5000 miles per hour, 70- 100к m height)
          4. The wing is the most loaded and responsible part of the aircraft, it will not break (see 1)
          5. Runway required, and not frail.
          What is cheaper raft or runway?
          Quote: Taoist
          - full reuse does not work - fault detection

          It's not expensive.
          Check out the fault detection and imbalance search for turbines for TPPs.
          Laptop + software + sensors = 10000 Euro
          Quote: Taoist
          . And it’s easier to use an onboard container for a parachute system than to land landing supports ...

          KhZG will sit, a fire is possible if the forest, the steppe
          For America, the parachute system is SIGNIFICANT IN THE ATLANTIC.
          Into the salty ocean water
          Corrosion + temperature deformation (300gC nozzle, under 80gC step in 15 gC water) - Amba: nozzle, rail, fittings, steps - TO DUMP
  43. artocodes
    artocodes 24 May 2016 20: 37 New
    0
    How do refutations always amuse me ??? This is because "rebuttals" often have a lower level of intellectual development than the average statistical reader. Too lazy to quote this "footcloth", I think you can see for yourself that the author only appeared yesterday from the excavations of the Black Sea ...

    The fact that Ilon Max - this scam was clear almost from the very beginning. And finally everything fell into place after dancing around the self-charging batteries ...
    Did he accidentally donate money from ordinary people to a project? What could be sweeter than the idea of ​​how protoucr flying through the galaxy? You just need 50 hryvnias per missile to chip in SMS ...

    When it first began to shine in the European media space - I almost immediately realized that this was pure scam. He presented himself almost like a teaser for transformers, and almost all of the pseudo-scientific content was filled with articles about how soon space would become - how to piss off. There most likely the attendants spent more on the packaging of media content than on the rocket itself.

    How Mavrodi was right. - A sucker is not a mammoth ...
  44. ivan_petrov
    ivan_petrov 27 May 2016 13: 00 New
    0
    Mr. Konanykhin, what are you pestering Mr. Baumants?
    this is allegory. replace the mask with Chubais and SpaceX with Rosnano
    everything will be clear.
  45. Arikkhab
    Arikkhab April 19 2017 23: 34 New
    0
    there is a good series of articles about the "genius" Mask
    https://www.atraining.ru/trainers/karmanov/global
    -satellite-network /
    https://www.atraining.ru/trainers/karmanov/china-
    spacex /
    etc.