In the NATO tank contest, Germany is ahead of the USA (The Washington Post, USA)

Last week, six NATO nations met in a two-day Strong Europe Tank Challenge (Tank challenge of a strong Europe), in which the best crews participated, performing a series of exercises related to techniques and methods of conducting modern warfare.

These competitions, which ended on Thursday in German Grafenvera, were the first of their kind since 1991. Their goal was to build a "military partnership," as well as to demonstrate the capabilities of NATO countries to work together, the US Army said in a statement.

Germany won the first place at these competitions. In the second and third place were Denmark and Poland.

These contests, organized jointly by the American ground forces in Europe and the German Bundeswehr, became a reminder of the Cold War and the tacit admission that NATO needs well-trained non-nuclear forces in case of war with emboldened Russia.

“We need to continue combat training; time and money must be spent on training and education so that we have the best deterrent forces, ”Lieutenant-General Ben Hodges told the Stars and Stripes publication of the United States ground forces in Europe.

The Pentagon announced a fourfold increase in 2017 for the European Security Initiative and made it clear that the United States would soon introduce additional troops into the region on a rotational basis in order to deter possible Russian aggression.

“This international tank competition is an integral part of a series of events that will help in improving our skills,” Hodges added.

In general, seven tank platoons participated in the contest. Denmark, Germany, Italy, Slovenia and Poland fielded one platoon, and the United States two. Each platoon had four tanks with crews of four. Germany took the gold on the Leopard 2A tanks, and the US ground forces, with their M1A2 Abrams, were not among the winners.


During the competition, tankers overcame an obstacle course with 13 different lines, competed in shooting and driving. The units received points for each line in an attempt to score the maximum number of 1 000 points.

These competitions can be the beginning of a new tradition for the United States and their European allies, but Russia has long been holding the so-called tank biathlon. At the Russian competitions, the participants show the ballet of armored vehicles, and these competitions are very popular among civilians.

Last summer, Russia defeated 16 from the rest of the participating countries during the third tank biathlon. True, not a single Western country participated in these contests.

Comments

[Ami du peuple]

Tradition however. The Yankees Germans are ahead of the Ardennes in tank competitions.

[Finches]

I think that the NATO people are afraid to go to our tank biathlon - they will lose, then how can they declare to the whole world that they are Best of the Best !? Okay, we will lose, and if at all they will lose to the Chinese, Belarusians, Armenians ... There will be laughter the whole world!

[EvgNik]

Quote: Finches

I think that the NATO people are afraid to go to our tank biathlon - they will lose

[bulvas]

The Germans from Prokhorovka still remember how the Russians managed the tanks ...

use the experience gained

[voyaka uh]

"The Prokhorovka remember how the Russians controlled the tanks" ///.

Prokhorovka's example is unfortunate. Say "like at Balaton ..."

[kotvov]

Prokhorovka's example is unfortunate. Say "like at Balaton ..." ,,
Well, that's how to say it.

[bulvas]

Quote: voyaka uh

"The Prokhorovka remember how the Russians controlled the tanks" ///.

Prokhorovka's example is unfortunate. Say "like at Balaton ..."

Quote: CERHJ

Quote: voyaka uh

Prokhorovka example - unsuccessful

Yes, let's just say "into a puddle ...". It is felt. That the person, apart from the name of the place of the battle, does not know the specifics ..

For criticism - thanks, at your leisure I read

[31rus2]

Dear, but in what is actually not successful? Errors in the planning and conduct of the operation, or what did you want to say? And where does the competition in NATO camps?

[31rus2]

Dear, but in what is actually not successful? Errors in the planning and conduct of the operation, or what did you want to say? And where does the competition in NATO camps?

[GSH-18]

Quote: voyaka uh

Prokhorovka's example is unfortunate. Say "like at Balaton ..."

The Germans did not participate in the tank biathlon.

[Sid.74]

Here I am watching news from NATO ... and somehow I feel a little sorry for them ...
not only did the airborne tanks give ... so now it is also ...

Airborne troops will present to the public a new 120-mm Zauralets artillery system in the near future, Commander of the Airborne Forces Colonel-General Vladimir Shamanov told RIA Novosti on Saturday.

“In the near future, we will show the artillery system in the framework of the Zauralets development work. These are 120 millimeter weapons with extended firing ranges and other characteristics, ”said Shamanov.

He clarified that the “Zauralets” is created on the basis of the BMD-4М and the Rakushka armored personnel carrier, which from last year began to enter into service with VDV.http: //military-industry.ru/artillery/4868

Flying artillery ... well, let's say .. ag ... and this ...

The world's first airborne anti-aircraft missile system is being created for the Russian Airborne Forces based on the BMD-4M combat vehicle, a source in the Russian Defense Ministry said.

“Work is underway to create an airborne anti-aircraft missile system based on the BMD-4M airborne combat vehicle. The development project is called "The Fowler", TASS reports the source.

He clarified that the complex is supposed to parachute parachute method. Http://military-industry.ru/air_defence/4876

What a furious force will be concluded in the Airborne ...

It remains only to drop a Sun-mounted make or a flying copy of some MLRS. Or it is already a bust ...

[Volga Cossack]

By the way, RPU -14 was in service with the Airborne Forces - towed MLRS ......... nothing is new under the moon ....

[okunevich_rv]

For the sake of justice, it would not be bad to conduct a comparative analysis on which tanks, what indicators they achieved, the average travel time of the route, shooting indicators. In addition, a comparative analysis with the performance of our tank biathlon and the technical characteristics of the units used, based on the doctrine, presumably which tactics will adhere to.
And to laugh at the teachings of potential opponents is not far-sighted, the Fritz are able to fight, I would not underestimate them, but then a whole bunch is going to.

[Mahmut]

I think they want to participate in a tank biathlon, but first decided to practice among themselves.

[Ami du peuple]

Quote: Finches

Okay, they will lose to us, and if at all, they will lose to the Chinese, Belarusians, Armenians

NATO members have already lost to Belarusians and Armenians not only in tank biathlon, but also in all types of military all-around. True, at that time the former were called the "Third Reich" and performed in an incomplete composition (without the USA and England), and the latter were part of the united Soviet team.

[cap]

Quote: Finches

I think that the NATO people are afraid to go to our tank biathlon - they will lose, then how can they declare to the whole world that they are Best of the Best !? Okay, we will lose, and if at all they will lose to the Chinese, Belarusians, Armenians ... There will be laughter the whole world!

Therefore, they do not go. Proud

[cap]

Quote: cap

Therefore, they do not go. Proud laughing

[Captain45]

Quote: cap

Proud laughing

Well, yes, well, yes, as they say, the hedgehog is a proud bird. Do not kick, will not fly

[Kasym]

They proved a simple truth: only Germans and Russians made good tanks.
Abrams are designed more for defensive combat (you won’t shoot on the move), and not to compete with competitors with its weight in polygons. ... Therefore, they do not want to embarrass themselves in competitions with our tanks. It is unlikely that they will ever come. But it would be great to drag the Germans or someone else on the Leopards (the same Poles). The entire male part of the country would disappear from TV sets - to miss such a famous hockey series of 72 years. Yes, there would be a wonderful part of it would "catch" from the male roar ("show this ... the second Stalingrad" or "For Moscow", etc.) and "one hundred grams for the shot down."

[Homo]

Quote: Kasym

They proved a simple truth: only Germans and Russians made good tanks.

Russians - DO!

[atalef]

Quote: Kasym

They proved a simple truth: only Germans and Russians made good tanks.

Based on the results of the (real) war in Iraq, this statement is controversial.
Abrams shredded t- (various configurations) - in full.
In the event of a war in the building, t is no better than Abrams or any other (except Merkava, imprisoned for including being in the building)
And about the Leopards (in battle) nothing really is known at all.

[inkass_98]

As far as the construction war was concerned, everything was clear to us back in 1994, long before the Iraqi events (unless Kuwait was counted as such). And in Iraq, tanks were frankly outdated. A chariot is a specific thing and only for its battlefield and is poorly distributed (Singapore laughs), like the Challenger with the Leclerc, for example, with all due respect ... The confrontation is precisely between the T-72/90 and the Abrams, while the Leopards will be a support group in Europe, if anything. It is unlikely that Israel will think of getting into a mess in Europe, he will get his worries if something happens.

[Skubudu]

You can certainly argue by claiming that the Iraqis had old-style BPS, etc. But it is a problem of Iraq and their tankers that they did not have modern means of surveillance and destruction on the T-72.
In fact, yes, in a real war, the Abrams defeated the T-72.

[co-creator]

Quote: Skubudu

You can certainly argue by claiming that the Iraqis had old-style BPS, etc. But it is a problem of Iraq and their tankers that they did not have modern means of surveillance and destruction on the T-72.
In fact, yes, in a real war, the Abrams defeated the T-72.

The Tigers defeated the T-34, and what do we conclude from this? Is the t-34 a bad tank or are they two different tanks? In fact, Abrams has never fought against T in the same conditions.

[raf]

In the event of a war in development, t is no better than Abrams or any other (except Merkava

Of course, who would doubt it!

[andj61]

Quote: atalef

Based on the results of the (real) war in Iraq, this statement is controversial.
Abrams shredded t- (various configurations) - in full.

Was it a real war? Complete superiority both in the air and on the ground of some, and the betrayal of generals and senior officers by others.
In reality, only individual crews fought from the Iraqi side, or rather, tried to fight. And to beat tanks from the Abrams in storage or without crews - and that happened! - this, of course, is a feat and an indicator of the coolness of the Americans.
Moreover, given the "excellent" attitude of the Arabs to technology. My lecturer at the institute in military specialties, who was an adviser in Syria and Egypt, and who fought on the S-75 - S-125 in Cuba and Vietnam characterized the Arabs as military experts compared with the Cubans and Vietnamese only abusive words. I do not think that their tankers are much better than the air defense officers and pilots!
Greetings, Alexander!

[yushch]

Quote: atalef

Quote: Kasym

They proved a simple truth: only Germans and Russians made good tanks.

Based on the results of the (real) war in Iraq, this statement is controversial.
Abrams shredded t- (various configurations) - in full.
In the event of a war in the building, t is no better than Abrams or any other (except Merkava, imprisoned for including being in the building)
And about the Leopards (in battle) nothing really is known at all.

According to the results of the war in Iraq, there was only one direct tank battle, and judging by the silence of the Americans, its result is far from what we would like. In other cases, the equipment was destroyed by aircraft and helicopters. And as for the merkavas sharpened for fighting in the city, do not tell my slippers. Humanity has not yet come up with an invulnerable tank for urban battles. No wonder tankers say that fighting in the city is always a complete ass.

[tomket]

Quote: atalef

Based on the results of the (real) war in Iraq, this statement is controversial.
Abrams shredded t- (various configurations) - in full.

And what configuration were "Abrams"? And what configuration were the T-72s? It's like claiming that the Sabers in Korea destroyed the La-9. Or the MiG-15 has ruined the Mustangs. Duck who doubted that they would rip up the previous generation.

[co-creator]

Quote: atalef

Abrams shredded t- (various configurations) - in full.

Norm yanked. Take the candy.

[Zaurbek]

English, Jews ...

[Resident007]

They constantly stigmatize the Yankers, what stupid they are, fools, etc. ... Of course I understand - a patriotic spirit, we are the best, but I really don’t need to bother amers like that, because it turns out that the states have military bases around the world, and they don’t know how to fight .. so what? Be objective, citizens.

[73bor]

The fact that the Americans don’t know how to fight is just a historical fact! You don’t need to defeat little Japan or Iraq with overwhelming superiority in everything (Vietnam’s bad luck).

[yushch]

Quote: 73bor

The fact that the Americans don’t know how to fight is just a historical fact! You don’t need to defeat little Japan or Iraq with overwhelming superiority in everything (Vietnam’s bad luck).

It takes a lot of intelligence to create this overwhelming superiority, but to win with this superiority is really a matter of technology.

[Sergej1972]

Japan has never been considered a small country. The territory is quite commensurate with Great Britain or Germany. The population is not much smaller than the total population of the same Germany and Britain. In addition, it controls a fairly large marine area. And during World War II, Japan, in fact, occupied vast territories.

[co-creator]

Quote: Sergej1972

Japan has never been considered a small country. The territory is quite commensurate with Great Britain or Germany. The population is not much smaller than the total population of the same Germany and Britain. In addition, it controls a fairly large marine area. And during World War II, Japan, in fact, occupied vast territories.

Japan could only fight with the Asians no more. Not because they are bad warriors, but because they are critically dependent on supplies of TOTAL. For example, as soon as Britain ceded dominance on the oceans, her empire went into oblivion.

[Tibidokh]

Quotation: blooded man

Japan could only fight with Asians no more

Russian-Japanese.
World War One.
World War II (Hawaii, Philippines, Australia - where the allies snapped off). So not only with the Asians they fought with dignity.

Quotation: blooded man

Not because they are bad warriors, but because they are critically dependent on supplies of TOTAL

And here you are absolutely right.
PS: To what you said above, stop bullying the members of the forum. It does not color you.

[Ingvar 72]

Quote: Tibidokh

Russian-Japanese.
World War One.

I think they answered you -

Quotation: blooded man

Not because they are bad warriors, but because they are critically dependent on supplies of TOTAL.

In the first two wars you mentioned, Japan was provided with finances and resources from outside. In World War II, they ventured to capture everything themselves. The result is known, and once again proves the ABSOLUTE dependence of Japan on supplies.

[okunevich_rv]

Well, sort of, and the most peaceful people live on 1/5 of the land and smashed all uninvited guests at all times

[Maki Avellevich]

My friend 13 years ago participated in joint tank exercises with the Americans in Israel.
The tactics of conducting a tank battle of the Americans spoke very poorly. He said that it seemed that in America they had little idea of ​​how to use tanks in battle.

[Zaurbek]

This is from the second world. The United States never acted in tank units, without aviation dominating the battlefield ... This is still true. In fact, the Abrams shoot through what the Apaches did not

[PKK]

American monkeys became so insolent that they stopped learning. Where are their vaunted training, which makes recruits, "killing machines"? Shame on the whole world, no one gets used to.

[Teberii]

Leopards are good cars, and the crew in Europe are better prepared. Experience of the last war.

[Andrey Yuryevich]

Quote: Teberii

The experience of the last war.

experience of what? what kind of war? WWII? the tankers are the same ?! smiled in the morning ... here is their "biathlon" - everything is sterile, in German ...

[Sergerius]

Thanks for the video! +

[Ayujak]

Yes, it's funny to see such "sterile" conditions. No speakers at all. Four of us went to the line, shot and ... ??? Neither do you run with greetings for the crews, nor do you shoot from a machine gun. Where's the ford ?? ... In general, the NATO generals are not in vain concerned ...

[atalef]

Quote: AYUJAK

Yes, it's funny to see such "sterile" conditions. There are no speakers at all.

The Alliance is achieved both through planned training in the combat training system, and as a result of the preparation and conduct of competitions, the most important of which is the “Canadian Army Trophy” (Canadian Army Trophy).
Tank competitions held since 1963 years on the initiative of the command of the ground forces of Canada. At the same time, a prize was established to award the winners - a silver model of the Centurion tank.
During the competition for the “Canadian Army Prize”, the fire training of tank crews is checked. In preparation for them, among the drivers, competitions are held to replace the engines of tanks, the results of which are not included in the overall classification of the teams
As for firing from tanks, teams compete for hit accuracy and rate of fire. The main goal is the destruction of targets from a cannon and a machine gun day and night from a standstill and in motion at distances from 800 to 2400 m in minimal time.
The prize was raffled off in conditions of a gradual complication of the situation. Initially, firing is carried out from the place by single crews at targets whose distance is known. Then the crews in the units fired from a place and on the move at fixed and moving targets, appearing at different distances.
Competitions were held every two years.
In 1989, competitions were held in the period 9-23 of June in the Federal Republic of Germany on the basis of the Bergen-Hone training center (Hannover). Their organizers did their best to introduce elements of the real situation of the battlefield. If in the 1987, each platoon received the same number of targets in the same combination, in 1989, in different. At the last competitions night firing was held for the first time. Dimensions of targets installed at distances above 1500 m are reduced from 230X230 cm to 165X190 cm, and for shorter ones to 110X190 cm.
In the 1989 competition of the year, the 21 tank platoon participated in the battle for the trophy. The team of the Northern Army Group was represented by ten platoons (two for each from 1 ak of Belgium and 1 in the Netherlands, three for each - 1 ak of Germany and 2 United States BTR). For the command of the Central Army Group, 11 platoons acted (three for each from 2 ak of Germany, 5 and 7 ak of the USA, two - 4 of the IBRM of Canada).
In accordance with the conditions of the competition, tank crews as part of platoons fired from guns at 32 targets and machine guns at 80, which were lifting targets of tanks that appeared on 40 c, and human figures. The ammunition of each tank was 12 shells and 250 cartridges in the ratio of one tracer to three ordinary. In addition to the ammunition, four shells and 125 cartridges were issued, which could only be used with the permission of the judges.
The competition included five stages. At the first, firing was carried out from a place from the cannon, first at two, and then at four targets located at different distances. At the second stage, the crews fired from machine guns at four targets that appeared 10 times, and from the cannon at two. The third stage - firing from a cannon at eight targets installed at the same range. The fourth stage included shooting on the move at three targets from the cannon and four 10 times appearing targets from the machine gun. At the fifth stage, the crews fired from a place from the gun, first five, then eight targets.

in detail
http://gigamir.net/agenda/internet/pub568115

[Ayujak]

All clear. Thanks for the info and for the link.

[Moore]

Everything is normal there with conditions: both a machine gun, and WMD, and VMP, and engineering training, and individual fire crews.
We went in a more "sporting" direction, there is less entertainment, but more application - as in our other competitions - even the same reconnaissance platoons.

[Ayujak]

Yes, everything is like people. It would be interesting to see joint competitions between the Russian Federation and the CIS with NATO.

[73bor]

Abrams lacks only a trailer with looted goods!

[Seaman77]

Quote: AYUJAK

Yes, it's funny to see such "sterile" conditions. No speakers at all. Four of us went to the line, shot and ... ??? Neither do you run with greetings for the crews, nor do you shoot from a machine gun. Where's the ford ?? ... In general, the NATO generals are not in vain concerned ...

Everything was there. And "ford" and shooting from personal weapons. If anyone knows the full alignment of places - share the info. The first three places are Leopards. Where is the Italian Ariette and the Slovenian M-84? Can't find it anywhere. Classified?

[Seaman77]

More photos..........

[Seaman77]

The Germans are studying the m-84 materiel .....

[Bayonet]

Quote: Andrey Yurievich

experience of what? what kind of war? WWII? are the tankers the same?

He was like that, but he died last year. Otto Carius, a German ace tanker, destroyed more than 150 tanks and self-propelled guns, one of the highest results of World War II.

[co-creator]

Quote: Bayonet

150 tanks and self-propelled guns - one of the highest results of the Second World War.

Something is not enough, it was necessary to write 500. The paper suffers.

[raf]

I noticed an interesting reaction to the video at home! When I saw the tanks and heard the "barking" German speech, my hand itself began to look for a bunch of grenades! It seems that this is a conditioned reflex!

[Bayonet]

Quote: raf

I noticed an interesting reaction to the video! When I saw the tanks and heard the "barking" German speech, my hand itself began to look for a bunch of grenades!

Do you also have the Second World War experience?

[raf]

That neither , raised on Soviet war films!

[andj61]

Quote: Bayonet

Quote: raf

I noticed an interesting reaction to the video! When I saw the tanks and heard the "barking" German speech, my hand itself began to look for a bunch of grenades!

Do you also have the Second World War experience?

This reaction is at the genetic level!

[atalef]

Quote: Bayonet

Quote: raf

I noticed an interesting reaction to the video! When I saw the tanks and heard the "barking" German speech, my hand itself began to look for a bunch of grenades!

Do you also have the Second World War experience?

Again summer and again I want to go to Paris !!
- Sorry, have you been to Paris?
- No, but already wanted to.

[Bayonet]

Quote: Teberii

Leopards are good cars, and the crew in Europe are better prepared. Experience of the last war.

We also have experience

[kotvov]

. Experience of the last war. ,,
Is this in Yugoslavia or in Iraq?

[igorra]

Tigers, Panthers burned and Leopards if we have to burn. The Germans again think that cat meat is inedible, our grandfathers convinced them, we will continue.

[amirbek]

Quote: igorra

Tigers, Panthers burned and Leopards if we have to burn

In the photo ahead of the tank, it’s not your land mine ...

[NEXUS]

Quote: igorra

Tigers, Panthers burned and Leopards if we have to burn. The Germans again think that cat meat is inedible, our grandfathers convinced them, we will continue.

The armature would be renamed Hypericum.
And about the tank biathlon ... it would be interesting to look at the competition, where all the latest tanks would participate, starting with the Leopard 2A7 +, Abrams, Lecler and others and our Armata.
But I suppose so far these are only dreams. But even on the T-90 "Breakthrough" I am sure our tankers among these tanks will look very dignified, and I would not be surprised if at the "Breakthrough" ours washed all these new western tanks.

[Same lech]

Germany won the first place at these competitions. In the second and third place were Denmark and Poland.

Germany has the experience of the wars of the last century ... given the pedantry of the Germans, we can say that they will learn to fight in modern warfare.
So far, however, the Germans do not have a suitable motivated guilty youth ... without a motivated soldier, any country will not have success in the war.

But I suppose with such a development of events in Europe when the United States is steadily promoting its troops and NATO troops to our borders, we will again have to take BERLIN by storm.
The threat of a clash with NATO troops increases in direct proportion to the accumulation of the combat potential of their troops at the western borders of RUSSIA.
In fact, when NATO combat aircraft already have the opportunity to make a quick throw to ST.PETERSBURG and MOSCOW ... you will involuntarily think about it.
We must not forget the lessons of 1941.

[Bayonet]

Quote: The same LYOKHA

So far, however, the Germans do not have a suitable motivated guilty youth ... without a motivated soldier, any country will not have success in the war.

Why do they need the Hitler Youth? There are enough people in the Bundeswehr

[cap]

“This international tank competition is an integral part of a series of events that will help in improving our skills,” Hodges added.

Quote: The same LYOKHA

In fact, when NATO combat aircraft already have the opportunity to make a quick throw to ST.PETERSBURG and MOSCOW ... you will involuntarily think about it.

Correctly, Shoigu began to hold competitions in the combat arms.
The gentlemen peeped through the "gap in the fence" and became thoughtful.
We must continue in the same spirit and not relax.
And the Germans predictably took first place in the competition. The Americans, with their hiring system, are collecting the rainbow that's the result.
And here is a shot from Iraq.

[Captain45]

Quote: cap

.Americans with their system of hiring for service are collecting the rainbow that's the result.

Yesterday in the news on TV they said that the commander of the U.S. Army was appointed this same, sorry, open pederast. I do not exclude that they will start conducting classes on the unconventional use of gun trunks. We would not forget to cut the main fly.

[NEXUS]

Quote: Captain45

I don’t exclude that they will start conducting classes on the unconventional use of weapon trunks. They would not forget to cut the main fly.

But why cut something? Mattresses have established production of an RPG-7 (Airtronic USA RPG-7)
Most for such rainbow pursuits.

[Holsten]

It would be interesting to compare the programs of NATO and Russian tank competitions. What NATO presented for the show somehow is not very impressive against the background of biathlon video reports in Alabino.

[Mountain shooter]

Are you jealous of our "Tank Biathlon"? And Shoigu came up with great. I set this motivation to the guys on the tanks - immense throughout Russia. All the crews train, compete, in parts, then in the districts - this is how much better preparation is going! Yes, and for engineers and designers, how much additional information, with such an intensive and massive exploitation, is almost a war.
I looked at the picture from the German competitions - what can they do, only on asphalt? Neither you ford, nor escarp. Well, if so they compete, then it’s clear why they don’t come to us for biathlon

[atalef]

Quote: Mountain Shooter

Are you jealous of our "Tank Biathlon"? Shoigu came up with great

According to sources in the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation (Ministry of Defense of Russia) and the output of television reports, the inventor of this contest is personally the Minister of Defense of the Russian Federation Sergey Shoigu. [1] [2] Despite this, the idea of ​​competing tank crews has a much longer history. The essentially similar competitions for tankers of the NATO countries for the Canadian Army Trophy were held from 1963 to 1991 in West Germany. In the USSR, at the end of the seventies of the last century, at a firing range located in the Krasnodar Territory, firing from tanks on the "tank director" was called biathlon. Finally, in the community of amateur model radio-controlled tank models, competitions, also called “tank biathlon”, have been held since at least 2009 [3] [4

[Bayonet]

Quote: Mountain Shooter

Well, if so they compete, then it’s clear why they don’t come to us for biathlon

And I liked that not only the crews were competing there, but also tanks of different manufacturers. Only the Chinese come to us on their own, and why not bring the equipment they have in service to others?

[rotmistr60]

So the other participants have our equipment and is in service.

[Bayonet]

Quote: rotmistr60

So the other participants have our equipment and is in service.

Not only ours. For example, Kuwait has a couple of hundred M1A2 "Abrams", India has "Arjun".

[co-creator]

Quote: Bayonet

For example, Kuwait has a couple of hundred M1A2 "Abrams", India has "Arjun".

Who will Abrams allow them to bring Arjun is apparently such a G that the Indians do not want to disgrace.

[NEXUS]

Quotation: blooded man

Who will Abrams allow them to bring

But Abrams isn’t ...? Drina, whose tower is like three sheds, and therefore the engine was attached separately to it. And there wasn’t enough intelligence to protect it.
Or do you recall the first Iraqi company when mattresses brought these tin cans into the open field without active protection, like a parade, and what happened to them?

[co-creator]

Quote: NEXUS

And Abrams isn’t ...?

Maybe g ... Only they will never bring them and they will not come, AND THAT IS WHAT INDIANS our allies are essentially afraid to bring their tank is a fact.

[NEXUS]

Quotation: blooded man

And THAT IS WHAT INDIANS our allies are essentially afraid to bring their tank is a fact.

Are they afraid or do not see this as an elementary reason? To study the technique of even your ally is quite a good idea. Plus, to peek at the Chinese and their work without hiding their armored vehicles is also not bad.

[co-creator]

Quote: NEXUS

Are they afraid or do not see this as an elementary reason?

They are afraid since the Chinese and Pakistanis are their real opponents. They don’t want to show their weaknesses, I think so.

[Bayonet]

Quotation: blooded man

Maybe g ... Only they will never bring them and they will not come, AND THAT IS WHAT INDIANS our allies are essentially afraid to bring their tank is a fact.

But where does "fear" have to do with it? Stupidity is simple! It is necessary to clarify the conditions of the competition.

[co-creator]

Quote: Bayonet

But where does "fear" have to do with it? Stupidity is simple! It is necessary to clarify the conditions of the competition.

It seems like everyone knows the rules of biathlon. You can of course limit to determine how much horsepower. to the mass will be for example. but it is particular.

[Bayonet]

Quote: Mountain Shooter

Are you jealous of our "Tank Biathlon"? And Shoigu came up with great.

Competitions of NATO tankers for the "Canadian Army Prize" have been held since 1963 at the initiative of the command of the Canadian ground forces. At the same time, a prize was established to award the winners - a silver model of the Centurion tank.
During the competition for the “Canadian Army Prize”, the fire training of tank crews is checked. In preparation for them, among the driver mechanics, competitions are held to replace the engines of the tanks, the results of which are not included in the overall classification of the teams. As for shooting from tanks, teams compete for accuracy and rate of fire. The main goal - the defeat of targets from the gun and machine gun day and night from a place and in motion at ranges from 800 to 2400 m in a minimum time.
The prize was played in conditions of a gradual complication of the situation. Initially, the shooting is carried out from the scene by single crews at targets, the distance to which is known. Then, the crews of the units fire from the spot and from the go at fixed and moving targets appearing at various distances.
Competitions were held every two years.
At the competition, night firing was first held. The sizes of targets installed at ranges above 1500 m were reduced from 230X230 cm to 165X190 cm, and on shorter ones to 110X190 cm.

[Sergerius]

And where is overcoming obstacles, ford, finally just a race, or, out of habit, did all the exercises shoot from an ambush?

[raketnik]

yes they have no obstacles .... the autobahn and drang tries are awesome .... well, on the osten you know the autobahns are dying

[Stanislas]

Quote: Sergerius

And where is overcoming obstacles, ford, finally

If only one tank turned over! Boredom mortal)))

[73bor]

At one time, the British had "conquerors" so it was simply forbidden to move on the roads and on the road they got stuck, the main exercise was to leave the box 300-400 meters to the prepared caponier, fire from a cannon, back to the box!

[Taygerus]

would we get to our finish line in our tank biathlon? Something not sure.

[am_usa]

At 42 they also said so, they reached your Moscow

[Andrey Yuryevich]

Quote: am_usa

At 42 they also said so, they reached your Moscow

come and go ... if ...

[73bor]

After the first frosts, the ersatz fuel stratified, and the caterpillars froze to the ice rinks!

[Bath]

In the Ardennes, too, your miracles showed the Germans drove you with pissed rags in the corners

[Ronin62]

Everyone reached Moscow. And the Poles and the French and the Germans, the result was one! You do not respect Otto von Bismarck, but in vain!

[raf]

Quote: am_usa

At 42 they also said so, they reached your Moscow

So it was not the Germans who painted the walls of the Kremlin, but our soldiers wrote: "Satisfied with the ruins of the Reichstag!"

[am_usa]

JUST RIDE THE WEST IN RUSSIA TO THE TANK BIATHLON, RUSSIA AND THERE WILL BE ABLE TO DIP CIRCLES ON DOPING

[raf]

Quote: am_usa

JUST RIDE THE WEST IN RUSSIA TO THE TANK BIATHLON, RUSSIA AND THERE WILL BE ABLE TO DIP CIRCLES ON DOPING

What kind of dope is this? From Lukoil or from TNCs? And what did you find doping in Russian diesel fuel ?! If so, then WADA is hot !!

[am_usa]

No matter what. the world is already used to the fact that Russia dishonestly plays in all games.

[raf]

Quote: am_usa

No matter what. the world is already used to the fact that Russia dishonestly plays in all games.

No, the whole world is already accustomed to the fact that if the "exceptional" want what they try to achieve their goal, no matter how, honestly or not honest (often not honest, and even more often by force)! I have no doubt that if it is necessary to discredit Russia, WADA will find doping in penguins in Antarctica too! The United States will make them find by bribery, blackmail and outright pressure! There will be nothing to find, they will quickly declare doping some harmless drug (meldonium, aspirin whether, but at least a hematogen!)!

[Samoyed]

Read Kutuzov.

[Dimon19661]

At 42 they were already far from Moscow, read the story before commenting.

[am_usa]

Forgive me for my translation (translator). The Russian tank is currently the worst. Russia only war 45 lost 8,5 million people. Germany 2. Russian is always more than yelling than doing.

It is ridiculous to watch praise the old T-72 (modernized T-90), in comparison with the Leopards, Abrams and others. Russian is the cheapest, therefore the most massive.

[Andrey Yuryevich]

Quote: am_usa

Sorry for my translation

forgive me for my bad french: went to h.r.e. troll ...

[EvgNik]

Quote: Andrey Yurievich

went to h.r.e. troll.

That's right, Yuryevich, to drive a filthy broom. Another zapadentets.

[raketnik]

where are you from chichundra ?????

[NEXUS]

Quote: am_usa

Forgive me for my translation (translator). The Russian tank is currently the worst. Russia only war 45 lost 8,5 million people. Germany 2. Russian is always more than yelling than doing.

Well, why? Russians, not Americans, entered Berlin. Yes, and in Syria there are more conversations and chatter from the United States with its allies.

Quote: am_usa

It is ridiculous to watch praise the old T-72 (modernized T-90), in comparison with the Leopards, Abrams and others.

This old T-72 is a real fighter. As for the T-90, your TOW does not bother him much, unlike the "Vampire", which clicks the Abrams like seeds. Besides, it is interesting to listen to people who are from RPG-7 (old ) are burning American tanks in batches, firing at the turret rotation engine.

[Dimon19661]

Come to us on Abrams - we’ll laugh together, of course, if you still have something to laugh ...

[am_usa]

We’ll come don’t worry, just laugh, you will already be in the grave.

[raf]

Quote: am_usa

We’ll come don’t worry, just laugh, you will already be in the grave.

So thought the Teutons (who fed the fish in Lake Peipsi), Napoleon (who died of arsenic on the island of St. Helena), Hitler (who committed suicide) and so on! The list can be continued for a very long time, but as they say: "There are no others, but those far away! "A sad fate awaited them all! Come and you, we will have enough earth to bury everyone!

[kotvov]

We’ll come don’t worry, just laugh you will already be in the grave. ,,
brave teuton crawled out-go refugees

[NEXUS]

Quote: am_usa

We’ll come don’t worry, just laugh, you will already be in the grave.

Should we start to be afraid? Here for fighters like you, one of your lieutenants said the following:

[am_usa]

The lieutenant said by name - hares

[NEXUS]

Quote: am_usa

The lieutenant said by name - hares

If there is a lieutenant Zaitsev in the US Army, you don’t have to laugh, but you have to cry, odd.

[Dimon19661]

We need fertilizer.

[31rus2]

And where is the site administration? What kind of x .., drew?

[31rus2]

And where is the site administration? What kind of x .., drew?

[NEXUS]

Quote: am_usa

We’ll come don’t worry, just laugh, you will already be in the grave.

Sala to the heroes, sala to the heroes! I recall how Givi fed such heroes with stripes.

[just exp]

then why did the Poles on the T-72 (the video below shows that there are Soviet tanks) took 3rd place. and the Americans on abram M1A2 took only by mouth?

[voyaka uh]

"then what are the Poles on the T-72" ////

There were tankers from Slovenia on the T-72.

[just exp]

Well, the magician and so, only 3.14ndoses did not take any place.

[73bor]

The T-90 is not a modernization of the T-72. Don't even stutter about the war of loss ratios like this; never read other books; your leopards and abrams never even dreamed how they scoffed at testing the T-90!

[Ronin62]

Quote: atalef

Based on the results of the (real) war in Iraq, this statement is controversial.
Abrams shredded t- (various configurations) - in full.
In the event of a war in the building, t is no better than Abrams or any other (except Merkava, imprisoned for including being in the building)
And about the Leopards (in battle) nothing really is known at all.

There is a Russian proverb, “It wasn’t about the bobbin, d .... eb was sitting in the cockpit!” I mean, Arabs, don't give everything to a bezel. Yes, probably everyone saw them riding the “Tank Biathlon”.

[rotmistr60]

(Tank challenge of a strong Europe)

As always, the name does not quite match the content. But it is pronounced loudly.

[Vasyan1971]

"... recognizing that NATO needs a well-trained non-nuclear force in case of war with an emboldened Russia."
Oh how! DARE! Like they kicked us under the bench, and from there we dare to shuffle.
And for me, it’s quite the opposite - the cultural registers are emboldened to complete amazement. Apparently the old bruises, bumps, itching stopped, and the soul requires new ones.

[nivander]

and what drove the psheks?

[voyaka uh]

On Leopard 2. The first three places are Leo-2.

[31rus2]

Dear, I will express a not popular idea if the Germans came to visit us for a biathlon, the fight would not have been a show, it’s a fight, by the way, they paid attention to the crews, they also competed in a platoon, and this is another training, it’s not bad for us to apply, I personally added shooting and passing distances and at night, closer to reality

[voyaka uh]

In my opinion, such a biathlon should be produced in
a neutral non-competing country.
And participating countries should not be able to advance
to study the range, route, obstacles, location of targets.

This was the case during the "Greek tender". More than 30 types of test-competitions.
All the "shoals" of all the tanks got out: Leo, Abrams, Challenger, T-80, Leclerc.

[Seaman77]

Quote: voyaka uh

In my opinion, such a biathlon should be produced in
a neutral non-competing country.

Israel???

[Zaurbek]

Do you think the Israelis will not compete in the Merkava?

[31rus2]

dear, please, Shoigu talked about this and suggested it, only the Chinese agreed, but in an unfamiliar area I don’t agree, it is fraught with problems, and jambs of equipment are detected during testing, and this is not biathlon and safety and crews have other tasks, all should be reasonable

[Bayonet]

Quote: 31rus2

, but in an unfamiliar area I do not agree, fraught with problems

Why so? If you fight, it’s only in a familiar area?
Our fathers and grandfathers also, through unfamiliar areas, reached Berlin.
I remember one friend handed over driving license. He comes, does not pass, says: "Pidaasy (he lisped) made him go along an unfamiliar street."

[NEXUS]

Quote: 31rus2

I personally would add shooting and passing the distance at night, to bring it closer to reality

Watching our last biathlon, I caught myself thinking that it’s somehow no longer comme il faut to chase Russian tankers on the T-72 B3. Isn’t it time to transfer to something more modern? For example, the T-90MS.
Although it is clear that the same Mongolia, or Slovakia, if not available, these machines completely give up.

[MACCABI-TLV]

Quote: NEXUS

it’s no longer comme il faut to chase Russian tankers on the T-72 B3. Isn’t it time to change to something more modern? For example, on the T-90MS.
Although it is clear that the same Mongolia, or Slovakia, if not available, these machines completely give up.

not cars win, but people (s)

[NEXUS]

Quote: MACCABI-TLV

not cars win, but people (s)

True ... but it’s easier to win with the best equipment, and not with a sapper blade to throw tanks at.
The main thing, of course, is fighting spirit and love for the Motherland, it is indisputable, but our soldier must be given all the best so that the adversary does not even have the thought to fight with us.

[31rus2]

Dear, well, if you want it so, then offer to add an additional crew to the t-90, out of competition I put 1k 3 will lose, why, but think for yourself

[Arkan]

Germany took gold on the Leopard 2A tanks, and the American ground forces with their M1A2 Abrams were not at all among the winners.

A very indicative result, the Americans focus on the use of simulators when training personnel, and this is not the best practice. And the Abrams is not the best tank compared to the Leopard.

[voyaka uh]

Previously, in previous competitions, Americans
once fired well, furnishing the Germans, especially in the night shooting.
But they had worse with finding targets on the go, with overcoming obstacles.
All in all, Leo-2 is indeed the best of the western tanks, although
and has only very limited combat experience in Afghanistan.

[V. shooter]

Quote: am_usa

Forgive me for my translation (translator). The Russian tank is currently the worst. Russia only war 45 lost 8,5 million people. Germany 2. Russian is always more than yelling than doing.

Wehrmacht prisoners alone 3 million. Learn the story.
Hothas read here http://topwar.ru/11444-poteri-sssr-i-germanii-v-vov.html

[Samoyed]

Such an idea. Real tank battle on radio-controlled samples. Of course, modeling on computers is good, but limited, after all, modeling. Let's say how the Yak-130 can be adjusted to the characteristics of different aircraft. Take as a basis one model of the tank, rebuild it for remote control, and adjust it to the desired characteristics. Armor will not work, of course, but can you try everything else? Crews are in virtual cockpits, and tanks are in a real battle?

[tchoni]

Actually, NATO regularly conduct such tank competitions for the past thirty years, if not more. and the Germans regularly win on them.

[iliya87]

Tank biathlon is cool !!! It is a pity that the Germans from the USA are not participating, it would be much more interesting))

[am_usa]

When your Armata will not be put into production then the Germans will come. And now it’s too early for them to come, it will be a competition about like a Lada against BMW.

[NEXUS]

Quote: am_usa

When your Armata will not be put into production then the Germans will come. And now it’s too early for them to come, it will be a competition about like a Lada against BMW.

Yes you! You see, man, Russians visit such stoned people like you, not on the Zhiguli, but on the T-90. After that, you wrap your snot on your fist and blow off your arrogance as cheap as the wind.
Are you going to compete with Armata? You at least get around the T-90 "Breakthrough", the soldiers are unfinished.

[am_usa]

Armata is initially a failed project ... The concept is old. Russia is poor to afford such tanks. Armored unmanned tanks - this is a laugh. Only the USA, Canada, Germany, France and China can afford expensive drones.

[NEXUS]

Quote: am_usa

Armata is originally a failed project ...

A lover of mattresses mumbled, in whom the praised Abrams of the 70s of development and a Negro-loader sits instead of an automaton.

Quote: am_usa

Only the USA, Canada, Germany, France and China can afford expensive drones.

Yes? And where are they?

[31rus2]

Listen, you start to strain, with your stupidity, shut your mouth and get the hell out of here

[am_usa]

Stupidity annoying such as you Russian go from

[NEXUS]

Quote: am_usa

Stupidity annoying such as you Russian go from

It seems to me that you are not an American, but a Khokhlyat miscarriage, with a swastika on a fart ... You are notably calling. Why are you selling your Svidstvo stupidity now?

[31rus2]

For a long time the ghouls did not drive you, for a long time, they were completely overgrown, but nothing, I will wait patiently

[Skubudu]

Tank biathlon and we have a styry by and large.
It would be better to develop some kind of war game, like Deadmatch
field / city / forest, etc. 10 km per 10 km in a common playing field with various shelters, obstacles, smoke, etc. so it’s really difficult.
On one side, one team of 5 tanks leaves, and on the other hand, a team of 5 tanks ... And they begin to fight until victory.
Shoot what kind of shots do not be that I have a similar speed but from soft material so as not to damage the body. Hits will be recorded by sensors, etc. hit on board - hit, 2 hits on the forehead hit, etc.

[am_usa]

We have in the USA for a long time to use a laser for this, you have all kinds of soft blanks. Put a teddy bear in the barrel of a tank

[Skubudu]

The laser is not at all the same; consider not any ballistics as a laser, no corrections, accidents, etc.
The blank of which you need to fly and hit is struck, and not an instant laser beam

[am_usa]

, I was going to shoot the blanks)))) Ballistics in the hardening system is incorporated when studying.

[Dimon19661]

Well, you have a bad history with weapons, alas .... oh well, let’s ask the Chinese, they’ll bring you a batch of laser pointers.

[NEXUS]

Quote: am_usa

We have in the USA for a long time to use a laser for this, you have all kinds of soft blanks. Put a teddy bear in the barrel of a tank

You have a vagina-man in your Matrassia! And the rear-wheel-drive generals are like dogs not cut. Your farts won't get used to it.

[andj61]

Quote: NEXUS

You have a vagina-man in your Matrassia women

Not true! Women are not called Vagino-Man, but Vagino-Americans!

[Bulrumeb]

Last week, six NATO countries came together in a two-day Strong Europe Tank Challenge (Tank Challenge of Europe) competition in which the best crews participated in a series of exercises related to the techniques and methods of waging modern warfare.

and it would be interesting to see what they are

[kotvov]

so that we have better deterrence forces, ",,
we know this deterrence, let them tell about their crimes better.

[Raider]

Quote: Kasym

They proved a simple truth: only Germans and Russians made good tanks.
Abrams are designed more for defensive combat (you won’t shoot on the move), and not to compete with competitors with its weight in polygons. ... Therefore, they do not want to embarrass themselves in competitions with our tanks. It is unlikely that they will ever come. But it would be great to drag the Germans or someone else on the Leopards (the same Poles). The entire male part of the country would disappear from TV sets - to miss such a famous hockey series of 72 years. Yes, there would be a wonderful part of it would "catch" from the male roar ("show this ... the second Stalingrad" or "For Moscow", etc.) and "one hundred grams for the shot down."

I agree, let's be realistic, the weight of the Abrams tanks and the T-72,80,90 series differ significantly in weight category, as a result of which it is difficult to compare them in all respects. But with "Leopard" they are on the same level, the competitor is very strong, there is a video, though not new and not with the T-90. It hurts to "shapkozakidatelstvom" is also not worth it. The truth is that any competition shows weak points that are best covered in peacetime.

[Chaplain]

Maybe I'm wrong, but in the video the T-72 is chasing Leopard 1, one of the latest modifications.

[Disorder]

Quote: am_usa

We have in the USA for a long time to use a laser for this, you have all kinds of soft blanks. Put a teddy bear in the barrel of a tank

Why do we need a laser? I caught the target in the sight - consider it hit.

[am_usa]

Durik, the laser sight is just a rangefinder. Wahahaha. all calculations are done by the on-board computer.

[Disorder]

Russian tanks also have laser rangefinders and ballistic computers. Didn't you know?

At one time you had a training unit at one of the tank ranges, which on the M60 "tore to pieces" the newest Abrams.

[Ajent cho]

Quote: am_usa

Forgive me for my translation (translator).

Quote: am_usa

Durik, the laser sight is just a rangefinder. Wahahaha. all calculations are done by the on-board computer.

Oh, I look, did the translator work as it should?

[NEXUS]

Quote: Ajent Cho

Oh, I look, did the translator work as it should?

"95 quarter" and channel 1 + 1 just smoke nervously.

[Raider]

Quote: Raider

Quote: Kasym

They proved a simple truth: only Germans and Russians made good tanks.
Abrams are designed more for defensive combat (you won’t shoot on the move), and not to compete with competitors with its weight in polygons. ... Therefore, they do not want to embarrass themselves in competitions with our tanks. It is unlikely that they will ever come. But it would be great to drag the Germans or someone else on the Leopards (the same Poles). The entire male part of the country would disappear from TV sets - to miss such a famous hockey series of 72 years. Yes, there would be a wonderful part of it would "catch" from the male roar ("show this ... the second Stalingrad" or "For Moscow", etc.) and "one hundred grams for the shot down."

I agree, let's be realistic, the weight of the Abrams tanks and the T-72,80,90 series differ significantly in weight category, as a result of which it is difficult to compare them in all respects. But with "Leopard" they are on the same level, the competitor is very strong, there is a video, though not new and not with the T-90. It hurts to "shapkozakidatelstvom" is also not worth it. The truth is that any competition shows weak points that are best covered in peacetime. In the video, a test for speed, a German tank wins.

[31rus2]

Dear, there are, of course, many hurray-patriots, of course, they will destroy the tank with a pitchfork, but the point is not in them, and not even in a single T-90 or Leopard, but in reconciliation, that is, using their strengths and weaknesses the enemy, that's damn it and we need competitions, tests, and only then analysis and elimination of shortcomings

[96423 lom]

The Yankees always claim that they are the best, without showing evidence. Tried to prove, flow around. And the winners studied with us, though for a long time.

[PRepod RViA]

Quote: am_usa

Durik, the laser sight is just a rangefinder. Wahahaha. all calculations are done by the on-board computer.

As Forest Gump correctly said, "Whoever d / / cancer knows himself." And I can tell you: you can praise your super-technological equipment as much as you like, but the main thing in a battle is not equipment, but soldiers. What your equipment will cost in the case of using radio-electronic warfare, without GPS and on-board computers - NOTHING, because the overwhelming number of your OGZ and PGZ specialists cannot decide without a computer, not to mention the repair of electronic units in the field without involving breeders, because your education has long been /// shit and specialists have long turned into empty-headed "flip-flops" of toggle switches.
Although I am not a tanker, but a rocket artilleryman, I was taught to prepare flight mission data, first of all, using the white side of a pack of Belomor Canal cigarettes and coal from red flame matches from memory, and only then on a computer. Now I also teach young people. And chhat we wanted for your equipment, it will still turn into a heap of metal, so let's see then HUIZHU!

[NEXUS]

Quote: PRepod RViA

And I can tell you: you can praise your super-tech equipment as much as you like, but the main thing in battle is not technology, but soldiers.

But he’s not a mattress, but a stoned Bandera-crest. Have you heard about the Ukrainian army about the Internet? And you are broadcasting GPS about him here. He may not yet scream: Sala to the heroes! Sala to the heroes!

Quote: PRepod RViA

What will your equipment cost

There is no technology left in Khokhlostan. What kind of electronic warfare?

[Voenoboz]

It seems that the Americans do not yet know how the crusades end on us.