Military Review

Grated tractor

105
Belarusian defense industrial complex is looking for an alternative to supplies to Russia


In the military-industrial complex of Belarus over the past years, there have been noticeable changes. The military enterprises of the republic, in cooperation with foreign partners, began to produce several types of new products for themselves, including multiple rocket launchers, unmanned aerial vehicles, and light armored vehicles. Production of cruise missiles is at the development stage. But when promoting these products to foreign markets, Belarus will face fierce competition.

During the years of independence, the country not only preserved the legacy of the Soviet military-industrial complex, but also managed to turn it into a fairly modern industry. Due to the limited demand for military products from its own armed forces, the defense-industrial complex of Belarus is mainly export-oriented. In addition to the traditional sales market - Russia, the republic actively promotes defense products to the countries of the CIS, Asia and Africa. And although the state’s demand has been growing in recent years, the importance of exports for Belarusian military enterprises remains decisive. Moreover, in the conditions of the economic crisis, the defense industry is one of the few segments of the economy that can bring foreign currency earnings to the budget.

Over the past three years, the state, which controls almost the entire industry, has made significant adjustments to its development. As in Kazakhstan (the “Competence Seekers”), the impetus was the Ukrainian crisis, which vividly demonstrated the importance of the UAV, the MLRS and light armored vehicles. Belarus was never engaged in their production, so it had to be developed from scratch.

At the end of September, 2014, Alexander Lukashenko, at a meeting on the development of advanced defense systems, set the task of equipping the army with modern weapons. “The equipment should provide defense units, high mobility, controllability, the ability to conduct reconnaissance and deliver accurate fire strikes over long distances ... Nobody will sell you anything if you do not create it yourself ...” Western sources linked this statement to Lukashenko with events in Ukraine. According to them, the Belarusian leader intends to close the production of military products inside the country to the maximum so that in an emergency situation he can defend himself without looking at Russia.

The tasks of developing new types of weapons were formulated in the form of “complex system projects” (programs) in four areas: fire weapons, mobile weapons platforms, UAVs, combat geo-information systems. It was possible to achieve some success, albeit different in importance and level of localization. In the same place, where own production was absent, and Belarusian specialists did not have experience and competencies, they had to cooperate with foreign partners.

"Polonaise" and "Stork"

A good example is the production of the new heavy MLRS Polonaise, carried out jointly with China. Belarus had no experience in making rockets until recently.

Grated tractor


9 last May MLRS were shown to the public. In the parade column along Pobediteley Avenue in Minsk, two launch vehicles and two transport-loading vehicles passed. During their passage, the commentator said that the Polonez is effective at a distance of 200 kilometers, which exceeds the most long-range Soviet MLRS Smerch, and can also hit up to eight targets simultaneously. The system is mounted on the Belarusian-made MZKT-7930 chassis, which is widely used in the Russian army.

According to experts, the Belarusian MLRS used a Chinese rocket A-200, which has similar characteristics (caliber - 301 mm, range of destruction - from 50 to 200 km). 17 of April of this year, speaking before the staff of the Minsk Mission Control Center, Alexander Lukashenko acknowledged that Polonez was created in collaboration with Chinese colleagues. In China, he said, “some components” were purchased, on the basis of which Belarusian specialists created a rocket with a range of 200 – 300 kilometers. The complex is manufactured by the Precision Electromechanical Plant located in Dzerzhinsk, near Minsk.

In developing its own cruise missiles, known as the “Stork”, Minsk was guided by the experience of Ukraine, whose defense industry is in its death state after breaking ties with the Russian Federation. In April, 2014, when visiting the 558 Aviation Repair Plant in Baranavichy, Lukashenko suggested using the crisis in Ukraine to borrow military technology and recapture cadres. In September of the same year, the Belarusian delegation visited the defense enterprises of Kiev, Lvov, Dnepropetrovsk, Chernigov and Zaporozhye, interested in anti-aircraft and tactical missiles and their components. At the Zaporozhye Motor Sich JSC, an agreement was reached on the creation of the production of small-size gas turbine engines for cruise missiles at the Orsha Aircraft Repair Plant.

At the same time, Ukrainians may well pass on to the Belarusians the production technology of the X-55 cruise missile, which in 80's was produced at the Kharkov Aviation Plant. The Ukrainian defense industry attempted to set up the production and supply for export of air, ground and ship-based missiles of similar characteristics as far back as 2005, after the first Orange Revolution. According to experts, the appearance of "Stork" can be expected already this year.

"Berkut", "Grief" and "Cayman"

The development of UAVs Belarus began to engage in the early 2010-x. The production of UAVs was organized by JSC "AGAT-control systems" in conjunction with the 558-m aircraft repair plant. On the basis of the developments of the Russian corporation "Irkut", the Belarusians launched the production of the light reconnaissance UAVs "Berkut-1" and "Berkut-2". The first one has a mass of 15 kilograms and can fly 15 kilometers at an altitude of 1000 meters. "Bercut-2" has more serious characteristics. With a mass of 50 kilograms, it is able to climb 3000 meters and act at a distance of up to 35 kilometers. The higher class is its own Belarusian model - “Griff-100”. This BLA of 165 kilograms carries 20 kilograms of payload and spends up to five hours in the air. Last April, it announced plans to release an export version of the “Vultures”, intended for countries in Asia and Africa.

The development of light wheeled armored vehicles became a new direction for Belarus. A light-armored Caiman vehicle was designed at the 140 Repair Works in Borisov, Minsk Region. In the short time allotted by the country's leadership to manufacture the product, it used the components of the Soviet wheeled armored vehicles to the maximum. As a result, the creation of a prototype took only four months.

The basis for the Caiman was the Soviet BRDM-2, from which the armored corps was borrowed. Part of the units was taken from the BTR-60. With its appearance, the Cayman is very similar to the BRDM, from which it was removed the tower and slightly modified the design of the hull. Unlike the Russian "Tiger" and other armored vehicles of a similar class, the Caiman has only two doors, which greatly slow down the landing and disembarkation. There is no new Belarusian armored car and loopholes for shooting from the inside. The traditionally weak point of the BRDM was the reservation, which, apparently, also inherited Cayman. Therefore, it is unlikely to compete with modern models of light armored vehicles.

The Belarusian version of the Russian “Tiger” looks more promising, it is called “Lis-SP” and is produced under a license at the Minsk Wheel Tractor Plant. Its anti-tank version is equipped with its own Hornet missile system. In addition, several years ago, the media reported on the Belarus-developed Bars light armored car, but apparently it did not go into the series.

Russian bearing


Of course, Russia remains the key partner of Belarus in the military-technical sphere. Despite the negative processes of the first post-Soviet decade, the defense-industrial complexes of the two countries maintained close ties. Military-technical cooperation between Moscow and Minsk is governed by the 2009 agreement of the year, which determines the procedure for mutual supplies of military equipment, their terms, rights and obligations of the parties. At present, the share of Belarus in the military order of Russia is about 15 percent. About a hundred Belarusian enterprises produce about 2000 names for 255 Russian defense companies. In our country, 940 enterprises supply around 4000 products and components for 70 Belarusian defense factories. Active cooperation has been established in the field of service, modernization and repair of Soviet-made military equipment.

The products of the Minsk Volat wheel tractor plant, created in 1954-m on the basis of MAZ and separated into separate production at the beginning of the 90-s, are the most significant for Russia. MZKT, in particular, makes wheel platforms for Iskander OTRK, Smerch and Tornado MLRS, C-300 and C-400 air defense missile systems, Tor and Buk wheeled versions, launchers and transporting and charging systems. machines of anti-ship complexes "Bastion", "Bal-E", "Club-M", as well as all mobile strategic missile systems: "Topol", "Topol-M", "Yars" and "Rubezh". Today, Russia's share in the MZKT revenue is about 80 percent, and the volume of orders allows you to load it up to 2018 year.

In connection with the strategic importance of MZKT, Moscow, even before the start of the Ukrainian crisis, actively offered Minsk to sell the plant. In March, the 2013 parties reached an agreement in principle to create a joint holding company, which was supposed to enter MZKT, but for three years they have not been able to bring the plan to life. In August, the President of Belarus’s 2015 declared that the republic was ready to give up the plant for no less than three billion dollars, which Moscow considered excessive. As a result, Russian Prime Minister Dmitry Medvedev 2 of April offered to move the production of wheel platforms to KamAZ, which in June last year demonstrated its own heavy tractor project "Platform-O". The situation for Minsk is aggravated by the fact that the manufacturer of the air defense systems C-300, C-400 and C-500 - Almaz-Antey concern acquired the Bryansk Automobile Plant and plans to transfer the production of wheeled platforms for its complexes to it.

In response, the Belarusian side launched a PR campaign, regarding these plans of Russia as an attempt to pressure. In the materials inspired by Minsk, Moscow’s intentions in the fall of oil prices, the economic crisis and budget deficit were depicted as unrealistic. Nevertheless, MZKT in recent years has been actively developing civilian themes, and also seeks to master the Asian and African markets, promoting heavy wheeled tractors for transporting armored vehicles.

An important area of ​​the bilateral military-technical cooperation is military optics and sighting systems. In particular, Peleng OJSC supplies sights for modernization to Russia tanks T-72, is developing a fire control system for the Chrysanthemum-S missile defense system. The subject of supplies of the Belarusian Optical and Mechanical Association are sighting systems for grenade launchers. BelOMO is also developing a scope for the Russian AK-12 assault rifle. Minsk Design Bureau "Display" supplies monitors for aircraft in the Russian Federation, adapted to a wide variety of operating conditions.

Losing is easy


Against the background of the general decline in the industry, which in the first quarter of this year made up 4,3 percent, the defense industry complex of Belarus shows good performance. According to the State Committee of the Military Industry, in January-May, the 2016 enterprise enterprises increased output by 8,4 by the same period last year. At the same time, return on sales was 34,4 percent, exports of goods and services increased by 31 percent. As a result, the net profit of the military sector of the economy in 1,6 times exceeded last year's figures.

So the reluctance of Minsk to sell defense and other industrial enterprises in Moscow is understandable. The new owner can set other tasks for them, completely reorienting to meet their needs. The same MZKT, for example, is needed by Russia to provide its own Armed Forces with heavy wheeled platforms, and not the Afro-Asian armies. Under the threat may be export contracts, bringing the treasury foreign exchange earnings. The possibilities of Minsk to maneuver in the foreign policy arena will also decrease, where military-technical cooperation has traditionally been an effective tool for solving any tasks.

But in an effort to preserve independence from Russia, there are also problems. Many large enterprises, such as MZKT or Peleng, work almost exclusively for Russian customers, and if relations between Minsk and Moscow deteriorate, this market is easy to lose. As for the same MZKT, this perspective is already seen quite clearly. The export potential of the Belarusian defense industry in Asia and Africa has rather limited prospects.

Over time, this situation will increasingly affect the combat effectiveness of the Belarusian armed forces. The resource of Soviet technology is exhausted, and equipping the army with new weapons and military equipment will require large expenditures. Master the production of most types of sophisticated military equipment, such as aviationDue to the limited economic potential, tanks, air defense systems, the republic is not able to, and today it is impossible to ensure defense capability without them. Therefore, the question of Belarus purchasing abroad or joint production of new defense systems will soon become relevant again.
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  1. Volga Cossack
    Volga Cossack 21 May 2016 06: 53
    +14
    MZKT is too specialized and a unique enterprise of its kind - its needs are small - here, without orders from Russia, it is impossible to survive economically.
    1. vmo
      vmo 21 May 2016 08: 13
      -20%
      He is a collective farm and a collective farm in Belarus.
      1. Anatole Klim
        Anatole Klim 21 May 2016 08: 19
        +21
        Quote: vmo
        He is a collective farm and a collective farm in Belarus.

        The point is not the collective farm, but its unpredictable chairman. stop
        1. Vladimyrych
          Vladimyrych 21 May 2016 13: 02
          -11%
          So you need to change. What is the problem? Crimea was confiscated from Ukrainians that it is impossible to change "not about the Russian-minded" Lukash or what? it's time to think about Russia and not about any hicks.
          1. Vasiliy16
            Vasiliy16 21 May 2016 15: 05
            0
            Quote: Vladimir
            So you need to change. What is the problem? Crimea was confiscated from Ukrainians that it is impossible to change "not about the Russian-minded" Lukash or what? it's time to think about Russia and not about any hicks.

            Have you personally seized? laughing
            1. Vladimyrych
              Vladimyrych 21 May 2016 15: 24
              +2
              Basil if I seized it would be so written: I seized the Crimea. If you write not why do not write. You can’t screw up your turnips with such posts.
      2. The comment was deleted.
      3. D24081973
        D24081973 21 May 2016 15: 03
        0
        better collective farm than in the brain manure
        1. Kos_kalinki9
          Kos_kalinki9 21 May 2016 20: 59
          +2
          better collective farm than in the brain manure

          You can’t build a farm with manure in the head, and if you build it, then the farm will be manure in the head with manure (IMHO)
          1. The comment was deleted.
    2. The comment was deleted.
    3. siberalt
      siberalt 21 May 2016 14: 40
      +21
      No matter how many missiles and dump trucks Belarus releases, it will not be a subject state by definition, and therefore sovereign. Here, either to the West, ("in Ukrainian" laughing), or home to Russia. There is simply no other.
      1. Dr. Sorge
        Dr. Sorge 23 May 2016 20: 28
        +2
        It's right :)
    4. Backfire
      Backfire 21 May 2016 18: 08
      -3
      It is hard to say!
      1. The comment was deleted.
      2. Bad_gr
        Bad_gr 1 June 2016 17: 33
        0
        Kamaz
  2. Hope1960
    Hope1960 21 May 2016 07: 01
    +27
    We have to state with regret that divorce, both for the family and for the republics, is a tragic mistake. It is always harder to survive apart, both morally and economically. It turned out that "the market cannot regulate everything." We have turned from fraternal republics into quarreled neighbors, which plays into the hands of Uncle Sam.
    1. R-22
      R-22 21 May 2016 10: 48
      +9
      And first of all, you need to carefully look at our internal scum in the highest echelons of power that impede the rapprochement of fraternal countries and peoples, sabotage and betrayal everywhere. Old Man doesn’t, sometimes it’s just not possible to collaborate with pro-alarchic representatives of various structures working under the guise of fraternal Russia, alas.
      1. opus
        opus 21 May 2016 23: 12
        +1
        Quote: R-22
        Old Man doesn’t, sometimes it’s just not possible to collaborate with pro-alarchic representatives of various structures working under the guise of fraternal Russia, alas.

        but with her maybe?

        49-year-old Yuri Chizh () Both of them are village people. They can often be seen mowing grass in one of the residences of the Belarusian ruler).

        Chizh owns the Triple concern, which is engaged in the import and refining of Russian oil with its subsequent re-export to the West. The oligarch also works in the field of construction. At the same time, a project worth 150 million euros to build the Kempinsky Hotel in the center of Minsk caused a scandal during the recent summit of the EU foreign ministers. Then Slovenia vetoed the inclusion of Chizh in the EU “black list” and threatened to block all European decisions on the issue of Belarus. Larchik just opened: the partner of the oligarch in the construction of the hotel was the Slovenian company Riko Group.

        52-year-old Alexander Shakutin, known as a lover of pop music. Recently, his name was featured in a scandal related to the rigging of the results of the Belarusian Eurovision qualifying round. His fortune is estimated at 150 million dollars, the businessman heads the Amkodor holding, which is engaged in the production of construction equipment. This is the largest such enterprise in the territory of the former USSR. Its products are exported to Russia, Serbia, Bulgaria, Romania, Nepal (one of the holding's co-owners comes from this country), as well as to South Africa.
        Shakutin is included in the leadership of the Belaya Rus organization, which unites entrepreneurs who support Lukashenko.

        "Belarusian dream" Peftiev: Beltexexport, a company that was engaged in the sale of weapons left over from the former USSR (at that time he was a confidant of the then Belarusian Prime Minister Vyacheslav Kebich). The victory in the presidential election of 1994 of the year of Alexander Lukashenko did not interfere with business, especially since Peftiev established close relations with the family of the new head of state, first of all, with the son of the Belarusian ruler Viktor, who is the president’s security adviser and oversees all law enforcement agencies. Viktor Lukashenko’s wife still heads the office of one of Peftiev’s firms.


        One of the streets of Brest is named after Mikhail Moshensky, the founder of the Santa Impex-Brest concern, which imports and processes fish. After his death, the case was continued by 41-year-old son Alexander, the youngest Belarusian oligarch.

        17 years ago, barely becoming president, Lukashenko called businessmen nothing more than “lousy fleas” that people should throw off their bodies. Today on the streets of Minsk you can often see “Ferrari” and “Bentley”, and “ghettos” for nouveaux riches grow near every major city in the country.


        You are like children to "her god". BATSKA belay



        A: Me Russian one gave some Maybach. So already the production of such cars is closed. I gave the car to the state.
        1. onix757
          onix757 22 May 2016 14: 00
          +2
          Duc planted his dad, it’s kind of like on the bunk)
    2. The comment was deleted.
  3. VNP1958PVN
    VNP1958PVN 21 May 2016 07: 05
    +6
    When developing its own cruise missiles, dubbed the “Stork”, Minsk was guided by the experience of Ukraine, whose defense industry is in a dying state after breaking ties with the Russian Federation
    For Belarus now is a chance to replace Ukrainian suppliers for the Russian defense industry. If only the Old Man would not catch up. Something he has recently been looking hard at the West! The sanctions were lifted, already a bad sign ...
    1. Alekseev
      Alekseev 21 May 2016 07: 24
      +18
      Quote: VNP1958PVN
      For Belarus now is a chance to replace Ukrainian suppliers for the Russian defense industry.

      And for Russia, a chance to get rid of such suppliers.
      There is no hope for an Old Man, etc.
      Moreover, if you already make a new modular tractor of the 21st century for ICBMs, then invest in your enterprises.
      As for the base for the SAM and OTRK - everything has already been decided. There is a BAS.
      And no need to produce other wheeled options for weapons from 8 to 40 tons in weight. And as tank trailers too.
      They used KamAZ as one of the chassis of the Carapace, and it’s worse in cross-country ability, and imported units are used, and, in general, its business is not on the basis for the installation of air defense systems, but to carry loads.
      But shoved - it’s a profitable business. request
      1. Dilshat
        Dilshat 21 May 2016 08: 38
        +10
        One way or another, it’s time to switch to our own production. Lukashenko still got a goat under Eltsin, but it was rushing straight to his own maidan. He wants to sit on two chairs. And so we need to prepare in advance so that Ukraine does not work out.
      2. Lex.
        Lex. 21 May 2016 10: 18
        +3
        Yes please http://warfiles.ru/show-114566-belarus-razrabotala-novyy-kolesnyy-tyagach.html
        in the UAE hundreds of cars ordered a new generation
    2. tegezen
      tegezen 21 May 2016 10: 39
      +1
      What can they replace? Ship turbines from "Dawns", or helicopter engines? No. And the risks are big, we have to do it ourselves.
      1. Lex.
        Lex. 21 May 2016 11: 44
        +16
        What can they replace? Ship turbines from "Dawns", or helicopter engines? No.
        Well, for example, the chassis for the Russian amphibian aircraft is made at 533 in Baranavichy and probably they don’t apply for the production of engines. Well, you should have set up the production of engines a long time ago.
  4. dmi.pris
    dmi.pris 21 May 2016 07: 09
    +8
    Equipment and weapons for the Russian army should be made only in Russia.
    1. Lex.
      Lex. 21 May 2016 11: 45
      +3
      Equipment and weapons for the Russian army should be made only in Russia.

      all yourself do not produce this huge time and money
    2. Dr. Sorge
      Dr. Sorge 23 May 2016 20: 37
      +3
      In theory, you are right, but Kytay taxis in electronics. Who prevents first of all from tackling the deepest problem?
      Regarding the MZKT, these are unique machines, and just for the sake of (I certainly do not put iron above the questions of the Russian world) they need to be ideologically involved in order to prevent the spread of Maidanism in Belarus and, as a result, the collapse of production capacities.
  5. abarth
    abarth 21 May 2016 07: 34
    +1
    Well done, finally they will begin to earn money and begin to pay

    Russia paid Kuwait the debt of the former USSR, which amounted to $ 1,1 billion and $ 620 million as interest. on 20.05.2016/XNUMX/XNUMX
    1. Peasant
      Peasant 21 May 2016 14: 49
      +1
      Well, it’s not necessary to introduce a moratorium on the payment of foreign debts by the Russian Federation, following the example of some neighbors. But what if the Duma voted. We have enough there too.
  6. dengy12
    dengy12 21 May 2016 07: 56
    +14
    But after all, we had a KZKT in Kurgan, it was safely past due @ and now there is a shopping and entertainment complex that is extremely necessary for the city am
    1. wandlitz
      wandlitz 21 May 2016 09: 02
      +3
      Needless to say, SUCH A FACTORY collapsed .... And now you cannot find the guilty.
      1. avt
        avt 21 May 2016 09: 59
        +4
        Quote: wandlitz
        Needless to say, such a factory collapsed ..

        What kind of plant was destroyed and where! ???? MZKT? Well, he is currently quite in working condition.
        Quote: Proximo
        Why on earth is the sight being developed for ak-12 in Belarus ?! This is a new product and should be completely created with us!

        laughing But they decided that the scope was only for AK-12 ??? Well, I’ll like it - we will purchase, but no, here we will ask you to import substitute. But here's the article to the author
        A good example is the production of the new heavy MLRS Polonaise, carried out jointly with China. Belarus had no experience in making rockets until recently.
        I will reveal a terrible Belarusian military secret
        According to experts, the Belarusian A-200 missile was used in the Belarusian MLRS,
        Actually, this is a Chinese missile, and Belarusians make an automobile base for it, and somehow the Old Man didn’t stutter that they had launched the production of the missiles themselves. Here are the Chinese automobile passenger cars assembly - yes, they have.
        Along with this, Ukrainians may well transfer to Belarus the production technology of the X-55 cruise missile, which was produced at the Kharkov Aviation Plant in the 80s. Attempts to establish production and export supplies of similar characteristics of air, ground and ship-based missiles, the Ukrainian "defense industry" made back in 2005, after the first "orange revolution". Along with this, Ukrainians may well transfer to Belarus the production technology of the X-55 cruise missile, which was produced at the Kharkov Aviation Plant in the 80s. Attempts to establish production and export supplies of similar characteristics of air, ground and ship-based missiles, the Ukrainian "defense industry" made back in 2005, after the first "orange revolution". According to experts, the appearance of "Stork" can be expected this year.

        wassat Well, God forbid that we should eat our wolf calves. Yes, even with the help of the great ukras, who just like this will bring technology with tears and serfs will bring rockets to do. Well
        According to experts, the appearance of "Stork" can be expected this year.
        The author! Copy this post of mine at the end of the year, well, at the beginning of the next, shame me on the site with material about the new Butsky cruise missile with Ukrainian engines from Motor Sich ..... Yes, just a licensed release of the Chinese A-200 and Az sinful straight to the PM, and then I confess publicly - I was wrong and put to shame in disbelief with the power of Butskin’s words that do not diverge from the deed! Well, as long as we are healthy, I hope and wish the author with God's help. laughingWell, about buying and selling MZKT, I'm already tired of procrastinating - everything is said, but the author is not But Father - he does not give out cool gems on the topic, well, he does not amuse people as about the fact that "there is not enough intelligence or money to make a centipede", that's actually and there is nothing to discuss.
        1. Lex.
          Lex. 21 May 2016 10: 07
          +1
          Yes, just a licensed release of the Chinese A-200
          And what’s the main thing from this that they are better than Russian tornadoes
          1. dmitrii.safonov.dm
            dmitrii.safonov.dm 21 May 2016 16: 00
            0
            What kind of plant was destroyed and where! ???? MZKT? Well, he is currently quite in working condition.
            Read above-Kurgan Wheel Tractor Plant named after D.M. Karbyshev! Before the death of JSC "Rusich". And they ruined the plant to please Belarus and Moscow sharers !!!!
            1. Dr. Sorge
              Dr. Sorge 23 May 2016 20: 41
              +4
              Have you come up with this? For the sake of Belarus ... And so the attempt of discord between us begins.
        2. The comment was deleted.
  7. onix757
    onix757 21 May 2016 09: 04
    +4
    In connection with the strategic importance of the MZKT, Moscow, before the start of the Ukrainian crisis, actively offered Minsk to sell the plant.

    With what fright Moscow "actively offered" to sell? On what basis is such a mentoring tone?
    In March 2013, the parties reached an agreement in principle on the creation of a joint holding, which was to be included in the MZKT, but for three years they could not bring the plan to life.

    An agreement in principle should be filled with details, and the details, as it turned out, were not at all in favor of MAZ and Belarus as a whole.
    In August 2015, the president of Belarus announced that the republic was ready to give the plant for at least three billion dollars, which Moscow considered excessive.

    ..right or an exchange for a proven deposit. Minsk correctly considered that the development and launch of production of the tractor itself would in any case cost no less (but rather more) with an unwarranted result. But the most important thing is the time factor, tractors are needed not tomorrow, but today, and therefore be ahead of shopping in Minsk)
    1. The Little Humpbacked Horse
      The Little Humpbacked Horse 21 May 2016 12: 15
      +6
      Quote: onix757
      With what fright Moscow "actively offered" to sell? On what basis is such a mentoring tone?


      Ippolit Matveyevich was transformed. You bent his chest, like the Palace Bridge in Leningrad, your eyes threw fire, and from the nostrils, as it seemed to Ostap, thick smoke fell. The mustache slowly began to rise.

      “Ai-ai-ai,” said the great combinator, not at all afraid, “look at him.” Not a man, but some kind of horse - a hunchback!

      “Never,” Ippolit Matveyevich suddenly began to ventriloqually, “never Vorobyaninov held out his hands.”

      - So stretch your legs, old fools! Cried Ostap. - You did not reach out?

      - I didn’t hold out.

      - How do you like this Alfonsism? Three months he lives on my account. For three months I feed him, sing to educate, and this gigolo is now in third position and declares that he ... Hy! Enough, comrade! One of two things: either you immediately go to the Flower Garden and bring ten rubles in the evening, or I automatically exclude you from the number of concessionaire shareholders. I count to five. Yes or no? Time…
      1. kon125
        kon125 21 May 2016 23: 27
        +1
        Bravo, I'll try to learn. In the army, when we are for something .. well, you know, about ten kilometers, in the mud, I, being an airborne assault parachute platoon, always asked student Vaskov to remember something from Ilf and Petrov .. all nagging was immediately replaced by friendly with a quiet neighing, it was much easier to run, but he never quoted this again ..ooh, what style .. you must definitely memorize it.
    2. cherkas.oe
      cherkas.oe 21 May 2016 15: 58
      -2
      Quote: onix757
      launching the production of the tractor itself will in any case cost no less (but rather more) with an unwarranted result.

      Yeah, he compared a tractor even if it’s eight-axle with the development and launch of a 4th generation submarine. Run away buy the brains in the bazaar and think, or goose buy the brains for him to do.
  8. Next
    Next 21 May 2016 09: 11
    +2
    Why on earth is the sight being developed for ak-12 in Belarus ?! This is a new product and should be completely created with us! Import substitution ... one chatter, it’s better to pump oil and more.
  9. abarth
    abarth 21 May 2016 09: 15
    -4
    “When developing its own cruise missiles, called“ Aist ”, Minsk was guided by the experience of Ukraine, whose defense industry complex is in a dying state after breaking ties with the Russian Federation. In April 2014, when he visited the 558th aircraft repair plant in Baranovichi, Lukashenka suggested using the crisis on Ukraine to borrow military technologies and entice personnel. In September of the same year, the Belarusian delegation visited defense enterprises in Kiev, Lvov, Dnepropetrovsk, Chernigov and Zaporozhye, taking an interest in anti-aircraft and operational-tactical missiles and their components. on the creation of the production of small-sized gas turbine engines for cruise missiles at the Orsha aircraft repair plant.

    Along with this, the Ukrainians may well transfer the technologies for the production of the Kh-55 cruise missile, which was produced at the Kharkov Aviation Plant in the 80s, to the Belarusians. Attempts to establish production and export deliveries of air, land and ship-based missiles of similar characteristics were made by the Ukrainian defense industry back in 2005, after the first Orange Revolution. According to experts, the appearance of the "Stork" can be expected this year. "
    This is the key in the whole article; on these fragments one can stretch another 20 years constantly upgrading and repainting.
  10. Verdun
    Verdun 21 May 2016 10: 09
    +6
    Belarusian defense industrial complex is looking for an alternative to supplies to Russia
    Why immediately - an alternative? People work normally, create new product samples, seek new markets. Does Russia have any products that it sells exclusively to Belarus? How can one reproach people for acting in their own interests and in the interests of their country? Yes, I would like our countries to remain friends. But no one is obliged to take this last pants off for the joy of it.
    1. cherkas.oe
      cherkas.oe 21 May 2016 14: 10
      +8
      Quote: Verdun
      How can one reproach people for acting in their own interests and in the interests of their country? Yes, I would like our countries to remain friends. But no one is obliged to take this last pants off for the joy of it.

      You don’t need to take it off yourself, but you also do not need to demand Russian gas for $ 70 and oil for $ 10 and not pay on contract bills. And then what happens? Russia buys products from Belarus at favorable prices for Belarus, and oil, gas, metals, etc., should it give out for waste?
      1. Verdun
        Verdun 21 May 2016 17: 15
        0
        And then what happens? Russia buys products from Belarus at favorable prices for Belarus, but should it give oil, gas, metals, etc. at waste prices?
        So when you are as competent as with the prices of oil and gas, you prove that Belarus does not make a discount on tractors for Russia, I will agree with you.
    2. aba
      aba 21 May 2016 14: 19
      +9
      How can one reproach people for acting in their own interests and in the interests of their country? Yes, I would like our countries to remain friends.

      Then the dad had to be more careful:
      The video (about "Platform-O") appeared just a few months after the statement of the President of Belarus Alexander Lukashenko, who, when visiting the MZKT, said literally the following: "We are afraid that Russia, they say, will invent its own" centipedes "and will carry nuclear warheads on its - and to your health! If they have brains and money today that they don’t have - let them invent. "
  11. user3970
    user3970 21 May 2016 11: 46
    +1
    That they did not say, Old Man works for Belarus, and not for his friends. And I didn’t hear something about the offshores with the surname Lukashenko, and there is a lot of tension with the garsbaiters in Belarus. And cellists do not own MAZ, and only Jewish bankers and President Lukashenko are generally from the realm of fantasy. And in general he is straight.
  12. abarth
    abarth 21 May 2016 12: 49
    -1
    Yes, it is tense with migrant workers in Belarus ... because Belarusians work in Russia)))

    do not tell you nonsense, if you like it, go to Belarus)))

    Jews are people like everyone else, the same Belarusians. to maintain your standing tone .. Vitebsk is the nearest settlement to Moscow where Jews were allowed to live, so are Belarusians in Belarus?)))
  13. Starik72
    Starik72 21 May 2016 13: 33
    +5
    Dear Russians! Answer me if you violated the supply, or did not deliver quality products, to your military-industrial complex, our MZKT. If not, why would you buy it from us? And here everything is simple. Who owns KAMAZ? Most likely OLIGARCH, who puts his interests ABOVE STATE! Therefore, the destruction of a competitor in the face of the MZKT is so important to him. He will buy the MZKT, then he will tear it up, receive an order and a lot of money, and it will be like in chocolate. And WE Belarusians will get a tattered production and we will suck a paw. This is my opinion. Respectfully. OLD 74.
    1. cherkas.oe
      cherkas.oe 21 May 2016 14: 24
      +11
      Quote: Starik72
      Dear Russians! Answer

      Well done. Own your plant. Build tractors for Russia, pay only for gas and oil, and there will be no complaints against YOU. And when the "father" tries to reduce the prices of gas and oil by blackmail, remember that we have our own KAMAZ (51% of the shares are held by the state) and with a little effort we will be able to establish our own production of tractors, so as not to be dependent on Wishlist "father". So, no dear politician, only business.
      1. Starik72
        Starik72 21 May 2016 16: 35
        0
        Oleg. We pay for gas and oil under the agreement and on the dates indicated there. For loans too. So don’t try, if you don’t know. And I have not heard from the Russian leadership that Lukashenko is blackmailing or trying to get something by blackmail. So do not tryndi.
        1. avt
          avt 21 May 2016 21: 59
          0
          Quote: Starik72
          Oleg. We pay for gas and oil under the agreement and within the time periods specified there.

          And the figure of his ohalnik, the figure of payments, "earned" money, well, not the next loan that Batska received the other day to pay off interest on current payments. And also give Batska an old quote to him, well, when Batska ran into a LADY, he didn't want to let him in, as it is still doing Ukrainv, Gazprom in a transit pipe. That's when they demanded this
          Quote: Starik72
          under the contract and within the time specified there.

          Well, pay, here and now. "And Yak Batska at his meeting shouted to his prime minister -" Give, give them everything you owe! They are so poor with such oil prices. " wassat
          Quote: Starik72
          So do not tryndi.

          And right by the digital figure of the state debt of Belarus, well, in what percentage of GDP and to whom actually and how much should.
          Quote: Starik72
          .And I have not heard from the Russian leadership that Lukashenko is blackmailing, or trying to get something by blackmail

          Well, not this kind of upbringing in VVP - in language like a broomstick of revenge, yak Batska in a fit of passion and permissiveness in Belarus - "Javdet is a coward, Abdulla is a warrior, they do not love each other."
          Quote: Mentor
          So, be patient Lukashchenko, it’s better for Russia, there is nobody.

          Have you noticed? For a long time now we have been tolerant and his leadership of Russia has recognized the legitimate gazpadar of Usiya Respubliki Belarus. Young really impudent year after year, here 3 swallowed the next tranche with a dashing yard, and as a sign of gratitude the scumbag naughty he answered and went to the priest of Rome. And what will happen next .... request Kheg knows him, I'm not in Coogs guys. The flight of evoy thought is twisty and confused in the astral plane is inaccessible, so even now at the opening of the seemingly release assembly of Chinese cars, it was proclaimed that the happiness of the Belarusian economic miracle and through it the prosperous prosperity of your people in the manufacture of .... electric vehicles .... wassat We had one of these breeders who undertook to make Yo mobiles - he collected the money and closed the project, and they were not really electric - hybrid. But the truth But But then But father sang like -Tough years pass in the struggle for the freedom of the country, others come for them, they will be like this the same difficult. "Like the economy is somewhere in the ass, but they did not hit themselves, naturally you were pushed there. wassat I even guess who in his interpretation did it. But the pier 2016-2017 will be a turning point. True, who didn’t break anyone .... Well, let's see.
          1. Verdun
            Verdun 22 May 2016 13: 55
            +1
            Quote: avt
            And the tsifir of his hunter, tsifir

            So where is the digit? Forgive me, but apart from the word itself - digital - there are no specific numbers in your comment
        2. cherkas.oe
          cherkas.oe 22 May 2016 15: 47
          -1
          Quote: Starik72
          We pay for gas and oil under the agreement and within the time periods indicated there.

          Truth? But what Russia did not receive from January to May for gas delivered under the contract, and Belarus unilaterally without agreeing with a partner decided that now instead of $ 140, it would pay $ 70 and would not recognize the debt for three months. Did I come up with this myself? If you argue, then please be in the subject. And not trandy.
          1. Amatar
            Amatar 6 June 2016 16: 14
            0
            so for reference
            the price for Russian gas on the border with Germany is $ 147,2.
            transit in the Republic of Belarus (~ 700km x $ 1,88 / 100km) = $ 13,16 Plus transit through dill and Poland. I think in the end under $ 40 run.
            Then why is Belarus selling the same gas for $ 140 (logically there should be (147,2-40) a maximum of $ 100. Or Belarus set the price fraternally, as they say?
  14. Mentor
    Mentor 21 May 2016 13: 49
    +4
    Quote: Vladimir
    So you need to change. What is the problem? Crimea was confiscated from Ukrainians that it is impossible to change "not about the Russian-minded" Lukash or what? it's time to think about Russia and not about any hicks.

    For whom to change something? At the political dwarfs screaming that “The West will help us?” © If there are pro-Russian politicians, they are carefully disguised. So, bear with Lukashchenko, there is no one better for Russia.
    1. cherkas.oe
      cherkas.oe 21 May 2016 14: 28
      +7
      You are probably right in many ways. Only the Fuhrer ambitions of this teacher can sideways come to us and you.
    2. Anatole Klim
      Anatole Klim 21 May 2016 16: 10
      +13
      Quote: Mentor
      So, be patient Lukashchenko, it’s better for Russia, nobody is there

      Eh, I remember the 90s, when I personally met with Rygorych, I then supported him and was ready for him both into fire and into water, as he contrasted with the amoeba Shushkevich. And now Lukashenka is a completely different person who has tasted power and does not imagine himself outside of power, having hammered into the heads of Belarusians and some Russians that only he - Lukashenka will save Belarusians from damned Russian oligarchs, and any other (not Lukashenka) pro-Russian president for some reason must definitely hand over all the tasty morsels to the Russian oligarchs. For some reason, Rygorych associates pro-Russianness with tasty morsels, but for me pro-Russianness consists in friendly support of Russia on all foreign policy issues and in defending Belarusian interests, while, whatever you don’t want to sell, develop and get out of it yourself. But in reality, the union state now seems to be a one-way road, when Russia owes everything: the cheapest gas in Europe, oil without excise taxes in the amount of 24 million tons, with its own consumption of 5 million tons, process and sell, fill the Belarusian budget, open the Russian market, import everything that you have produced, and even the first place in the export of Belarusian kiwi and papaya, and Belarus, if support from Russia is needed, is independent and does not owe anything. Moreover, more and more Belarusians, even on the VO website, say you have to pay for our friendship, otherwise NATO missiles will stand near Orsha near Smolensk, that is, we are friends for money, there will be no Russian money, then we will make friends with NATO, so what you pay. I don't understand at all - the fields are plowed up, the factories are working, Lukashenko is fighting corruption, there are constant subsidies, preferences, loans from Russia, and the Belarusian does not live better than the Russian, the question immediately arises why, if only such privileges were granted to another state that only dreams of it, to get ahead, but in Belarus Lukashenka’s economy stalls, cannot work without the support of Russia, Why ??? I asked the Belarusians, "Where is Zin's money?" Nobody could clearly explain who was talking about ice rinks in the villages, who about huge cement plants, I did not see anything, I saw clean streets, probably everything was off the hook, only my former chief of finance said that there are thousands of unprofitable enterprises and organizations in Belarus , the offices that are dated by the state and a lot of money goes there, I don't know, maybe it's true, but they are satisfied with the existing situation "there is a bulb with cracklings, well, okay." Well, the chairman of a Soviet collective farm is not used to working without the support of the state, now the chairman is begging Putin's permanent loans, frightening him with the Belarusian Maidan. In general, Rygorych despicably threw first President Medvedev with the recognition of Abkhazia and South Ossetia, then President Putin with an airbase, I do not understand how Putin after that can shake Rygorych's sweaty and slippery palm, but if someone deceives me, I despise how Putin treats I don't know Lukashenka.
      He lived and served in Belarus (Belarus) for 23 years, but still left for his native Volga region, Belarus is not a stranger to me, his second Motherland (I love Belarus and worry, I have my own opinion), but I do not regret a bit, sometimes nostalgia rolls over- probably getting old. I have the honor, wrote what I thought.
      1. Victor jnnjdfy
        Victor jnnjdfy 22 May 2016 10: 03
        0
        Unfortunately, Belarus (or Belarus as it is today) and Belarusians-Belarusians are changing. "What a pop, and such a parish!" It will not work better to say than the people said.
        All clever, intelligent and proactive "clergymen" are sent to hell by the Belarusian pop, so that they cannot claim his arrival in the future.
    3. Yatvyag
      Yatvyag 19 June 2016 15: 26
      0
      Yes, the Belarusian land has become impoverished by eminent people and talents. One hope is that the heir to the throne, Tsarevich Nikolai will be growing up soon. Our misfortune is that A.G. has trampled the political field in Belarus so that in the near future there is hardly anything worthwhile if pro-Western If politics still exist due to the support of European funds and government organizations, any pro-Russian opposition movement to Lukashenko will be crushed in the bud.
  15. aba
    aba 21 May 2016 14: 21
    +1
    in order to be able to defend in an emergency without looking back at Russia.

    But the main thing is not just the ability to defend, but how long the Republic of Belarus can defend itself without Russia. Perhaps the Old Man knows the answer to this question.
    1. Verdun
      Verdun 22 May 2016 14: 15
      0
      and how long can RB defend without Russia
      From the USA - probably not for long. Yes, and from Russia-the same. But from other European countries - the army of Belarus, according to experts, is considered one of the most combat-ready in Europe.
      1. cherkas.oe
        cherkas.oe 22 May 2016 15: 54
        +2
        [quote = Verdun] But from other European countries - the army of Belarus, according to experts, is considered one of the most
        combat ready in Europe. lol This is if Russia behind bully
  16. Torins
    Torins 21 May 2016 14: 37
    +1
    Quote: onix757
    In connection with the strategic importance of the MZKT, Moscow, before the start of the Ukrainian crisis, actively offered Minsk to sell the plant.

    With what fright Moscow "actively offered" to sell? On what basis is such a mentoring tone?
    In March 2013, the parties reached an agreement in principle on the creation of a joint holding, which was to be included in the MZKT, but for three years they could not bring the plan to life.

    An agreement in principle should be filled with details, and the details, as it turned out, were not at all in favor of MAZ and Belarus as a whole.
    In August 2015, the president of Belarus announced that the republic was ready to give the plant for at least three billion dollars, which Moscow considered excessive.

    ..right or an exchange for a proven deposit. Minsk correctly considered that the development and launch of production of the tractor itself would in any case cost no less (but rather more) with an unwarranted result. But the most important thing is the time factor, tractors are needed not tomorrow, but today, and therefore be ahead of shopping in Minsk)

    One of not many adequate comments. good
    It is simply not possible to import an entire industry in a short time, the same BAZ tractors are piece-wise and not reliable, suffering from a huge list of children's sores. If you are afraid of losing Belarus as an ally, then it is in your power to prevent this from happening. And there is no need to hold referenda, it is enough to promote your person in power. Belarusians would rather vote for him than for our nazianolisty. The main thing is that he would not only defend the interests of the Russian people, but also the Belarusian. By the way, one of the main claims against Lukashenko is that he puts the interests of the Republic of Belarus above the interests of the Russian Federation. Well, then he and the President of the Republic of Belarus would act in the first place for the benefit of his people. And if the Russian Federation begins to breed the interests of two peoples in different angles, then who is to blame for you?
    1. cherkas.oe
      cherkas.oe 21 May 2016 15: 42
      +4
      Quote: Torins
      If you are afraid of losing Belarus as an ally, then it is in your power to prevent this from happening.

      In this format, you are not allies, but blackmailers. Give gas and oil half the price. Then only you are allies. Look at the outskirts, from the same beginning, with blackmail. But in fact, they all wiped it out and now it costs no one needs cancer, with its plants built under the USSR. So it’s not Russia that needs to think about keeping an ally in your cunning face, but you. After all, we protect ourselves and protect you.
    2. boris-1230
      boris-1230 21 May 2016 22: 15
      +1
      If you are afraid of losing Belarus as an ally, then it is in your power to prevent this from happening.

      Just do not get hung up on your own exceptionalism and how to repeat the mantra that Russia owes you. We are distributing debts for the entire Union, but we have no allies except the Army, Navy and VKS! We have no allies - we have strategic partners! If your dad spits in our garden, and we put up with it - then it won’t last forever - or we get tired of enduring the dad’s rudeness, or the dad’s snot drowns! So somehow ... hi
    3. avt
      avt 21 May 2016 22: 57
      -1
      Quote: Torins
      By the way, one of the main claims against Lukashenko is that he puts the interests of the Republic of Belarus above the interests of the Russian Federation. Well, then he and the President of the Republic of Belarus would act in the first place for the benefit of his people.

      Why are you so lago! Yong is already a big deal know-where
      Quote: Torins
      act for the good of their people in the first place.

      Take it higher! Not even in the world - on a universal scale, the yong steers
      “I expressed the idea that it’s time for the pontiff to come to Belarus and meet with our residents together with our patriarch. I’m sure that there will be more than one million people who would like to see this handshake not in distant Cuba at the airport, but on land located in the center of Europe and which, thank God, were not affected by those cataclysms (and the pontiff also emphasized this), which occurred in the post-Soviet republics and countries of Eastern Europe after the collapse of the USSR, ”RIA Novosti reports.
      wassatI would advise Potifik Francis to hurry up with Belarus, until Butska got angry.
      “We are ideologically close to him, we have the same principles and views on the world order, development. The principles that I adhere to as president are fully consistent with those principles that Pope Francis adheres to. And on the basis of this, we had a very sincere and warm conversation ”
      Well, thank God that Young adheres to the same principles of sho and Pope Francis! But Pope Francis could adhere to the principles of Butsky! But this is ahead .. Yeon, because the level is still standing ... well, the pope and the father of Belarus laughingAnd there, as the chip falls, the father will ascend .... wassat
  17. nesvobodnye
    nesvobodnye 21 May 2016 14: 58
    0
    Well done Belarusians!
    1. avt
      avt 21 May 2016 16: 00
      -1
      Quote: nesvobodnye
      Well done Belarusians!

      Come on, private, give the truth - you’re better!
      You would recognize him a mile away ...
      There was a fog - I could not find out - dark, clouds in the sky, -
      Someone was walking - I shouted into the darkness.
      laughing Someone was walking .... I shouted into the void .... And the rating does not respond ...
    2. Starik72
      Starik72 21 May 2016 23: 48
      +2
      That’s Igor. You praised the Belarusians, got a bunch of minuses. Thanks RUSSIANS! I put you +!
  18. tracer
    tracer 21 May 2016 17: 13
    +4
    Separated from Russia, Belarus ruled by local princelings will inevitably collide with the interests of Russia. What to be happy about then? Pumping the force of a potentially unfriendly army? Do they need to protect themselves? And from whom exactly? One sly prince says that Belarus needs its own military doctrine and weapons for the army. And forgive me, this village councilor understands in general that his "knife" is sharpening at you and me .... not not on the maddened fascists, but you and me, on the Russian people ... this sly man understands what he is doing and why. The smart-ass gandoliero does not pursue any interests other than preserving the throne for the heir. And the armament of the brotherly neighbor must be considered from the right angle. Believe me, they don't consider Russians as brothers for a long time. The elite nationalists are simply CYCLED with their exclusivity and humidity. Sanctions are removed from my friend ... Does it look like anything?
  19. Backfire
    Backfire 21 May 2016 18: 11
    +1
    We must continue to cooperate with Belarus but wink while developing your own.
  20. trantor
    trantor 21 May 2016 18: 42
    +3
    No, but what did they want? Continue to fight hard so that no one reacts to it?
  21. Torins
    Torins 21 May 2016 18: 44
    +2
    Quote: cherkas.oe
    Quote: Torins
    If you are afraid of losing Belarus as an ally, then it is in your power to prevent this from happening.

    In this format, you are not allies, but blackmailers. Give gas and oil half the price. Then only you are allies. Look at the outskirts, from the same beginning, with blackmail. But in fact, they all wiped it out and now it costs no one needs cancer, with its plants built under the USSR. So it’s not Russia that needs to think about keeping an ally in your cunning face, but you. After all, we protect ourselves and protect you.

    Yeah, give you cheap equipment and products, but in return you don’t want to give anything cheap? Collaboration should be mutually beneficial, and not just all beloved. Otherwise, no one will cooperate.
    P.S. I noticed that any comment in defense of Belarus immediately gains a bunch of minuses, what kind and friendly people are there laughing
    1. avt
      avt 21 May 2016 19: 05
      +5
      Quote: Torins
      Collaboration should be mutually beneficial, and not just all beloved. Otherwise, no one will cooperate.

      Let me guess what it is
      Quote: Torins
      must be mutually beneficial

      Here is an example of the MZKT. First, I won't sell, they have neither the mind nor the money to make a centipede ", that is, they will not go anywhere - they will come and pay for tractors for the missiles as much as Butcke sees early in the morning. We started to do it ourselves and .... Then - Who is against it. I’m not opposed, but then sell us the oil-bearing region (is it better to just give Yamalo Nenetsky, or Tyumen there?), and give one hundred poods of money for the purchase from kryadit. wassat And Yong honestly with them, will pay with his own. And not sooooo
      Quote: Torins
      Otherwise, no one will cooperate.

      So who
      Quote: Torins
      only all your beloved.

      Eh ?? The amount of the state debt of Belarus is reluctant to see? How much does it pull as a percentage of GDP? Who and how much do they owe with interest borrowed for the “Belarusian economic miracle"? Is it okay that the last time again only in fact Russia gave for refinancing? But But Father is not enough and he managed to quarrel with the leadership of Russia immediately after receiving money on a new loan, Well now I went to the priest Rimsky again - maybe he will pray and the money from somewhere for the “Belarusian miracle” will collapse.
      Quote: Torins
      . I noticed that any comment in defense of Belarus immediately gains a bunch of minuses, what kind and friendly people are there

      And in Russia, less and less suckers are being led on "sayuznay gasudarstvo" and any national ambition about how Republican Belarus feeds Russia, and in response
      Quote: Torins
      you don't want to give anything cheap

      Well, not a penny, not a cent. Yes, here the most stubborn in Pan-Slavism and fraternal brotherhood of peoples, by the way, the brothers are trying by all means to emphasize that, at best, distant relatives - the seventh water on jelly, get a feeling and become
      Quote: Torins
      reasonable people
    2. cherkas.oe
      cherkas.oe 21 May 2016 20: 54
      +1
      Quote: Torins
      Yeah, give you cheap equipment and products,

      At what cheap price, equipment and products? Your products are by no means cheaper than they were the same Lithuanian or Latvian, I don’t even speak about Ukrainian. And we bought equipment from you at prices commensurate with the price of gas, oil, and other raw materials, now you want gas for $ 70, oil for 10 and in unlimited sizes. And for what reason, in our domestic market it is more expensive for industry and the population in connection with the requirements of the WTO.
    3. Starik72
      Starik72 21 May 2016 23: 28
      +3
      Vyacheslav agrees with you. As the Russians can blame Lukashenko, and pour mud on him, then they can. But we must protect, you can’t and get the cons. A vivid example: commentary - Well done Belarusians, immediately zamususuyut. And yet, I see the Belarusians do not scamper and do not throw mud at the Russian leadership, and the Russians are not already choking with pleasure to pour mud over Lukashenko.
      1. Lazy person
        Lazy person 21 May 2016 23: 47
        +1
        Quote: Starik72
        Vyacheslav agrees with you. As the Russians can blame Lukashenko, and pour mud on him, then they can. But we must protect, you can’t and get the cons.

        Well, then yes Lukashenko so-so, now and then syudy, as in the prince and Putin.
        1. cherkas.oe
          cherkas.oe 22 May 2016 12: 55
          0
          Quote: Lazy dog
          Lukashenko is so-so, here and there syudy, as in the prince and Putin.

          Would you go somewhere to study, at least to high school, and then, in prince, you can speak here.
      2. avt
        avt 22 May 2016 09: 27
        +1
        Quote: Starik72
        . A vivid example: commentary - Well done Belarusians, immediately zamususuyut.

        laughing And try to think with a brain for what? Not entered my comment with a quote from Vysotsky? Well, I’ll try simpler From time to time, well, if you carefully read the comments on the site, not only in the meticulous search for insulting the tender national senses of the descendants of the great Litvinians, you might mark them for some reason; virtual shoulder strap.
        Quote: Starik72
        . And yet, I see the Belarusians do not scamper and do not throw mud at the Russian leadership, and the Russians are not already choking with pleasure to pour mud over Lukashenko.

        Well, this is already byada !!! Here and the optometrist will not help. Not to see that there are people on the site who do not care about the Russian leadership .... Well, either you have to be a stubborn nationalist, meticulously looking for grievances to national identity, there are also such great Ukrainians who tell us how to write in Russian correctly Belarus Yu but to the station they don’t run, well, to tear off the MASCWA sign from the train cars laughing , or you need to contact a specialized medical specialist. Yes. And what about the facts, well, with the digital?
        Quote: avt
        , by the number of payments "earned" money, well, not the next loan that Butler received the other day to pay off interest on current payments.

        Got what? Or will you pour monosyllabic according to the political training manual on the clave, in a fit of passion of the offended national consciousness, getting stronger not to put minuses to anyone? bully
        1. Dr. Sorge
          Dr. Sorge 23 May 2016 21: 22
          +2
          But you know, you were the first to write a training manual :)
          And then national identity? Is your goal to divide us? Will not work :)
          If you are really worried about what will happen to us tomorrow, we’ll sit down and talk over a cup of Zubrovka :)
    4. Victor jnnjdfy
      Victor jnnjdfy 22 May 2016 10: 26
      +2
      Exactly! Cooperation should be mutually beneficial. Everything is written correctly in Belarus. But more about the text ...
      What equipment does Russia make you sell for cheap? Which products? I inform you that food prices in the provincial Belarusian town have already largely surpassed St. Petersburg.
      Maybe Belarus sells salmon and oysters grown near Mazyr to Russia on the cheap?
      Belarusians began to manifest typical Ukrainian features. Specifically, nonsense. Alas ... Maybe the cons because of this?
      1. Dr. Sorge
        Dr. Sorge 23 May 2016 21: 17
        +3
        Have you ever read what you wrote? no offense?
        What is nonsense? Is the price high in areas? So it is true. No one is cheating.
        And about seafood, change the manual :) Right, this argument does not hold water. And if there was smuggling, it turns out Russian hucksters, those who purchase smuggling, agree to such a business?
      2. Amatar
        Amatar 6 June 2016 16: 25
        0
        You're right. In a provincial Belarusian town, food prices are much higher than the same products (from the same manufacturer) but in the nearest Russian village. Although the reason for this is not that Belarus wants to make discounts for Russia, but because at Belarusian prices, nobody will buy these products in Russia (competition, her mother ...).
  22. abarth
    abarth 21 May 2016 23: 15
    0
    guys (Belarusians) simply do not catch up with what federalization is))) they think that money in Russia grows on trees, and we are too lazy to withdraw it))

    Russia is federal, the budget of the region (of a separate state) is made up of many economic factors, including the transit of gas and oil ... taxes on wages, let's say indirectly ...

    where all this is mined, have their own margin, as in the emirates, in detail. in Moscow and St. Petersburg there is no gas and oil !!!!

    so why, areas (separate states), workers (maintenance staff and those who are on duty) should work for free ???? and for what, what better Belarus, Krasnodar, Vologda, Tyumen ???? than Belarusians living in Belarus are better than those who work / live Belarusians, Armenians, Russians ... Ukrainians ... and an incredible number of nationalities ????

    sale of MZKT, let this service for loans ...

    http://rusvesna.su/recent_opinions/1463825352
  23. kon125
    kon125 21 May 2016 23: 40
    +4
    Lukashenko admired, like many, but in 2008 it somehow became unclear, after Abkhazia and Ossetia, why the brothers did not support us ... Then with Ukraine, the lack of a clear answer to the Maidan, the desire to sit on several chairs.
    But a visit to Turkey after a vile blow to the back of Russia, a demonstrative desire to stand out as an independent player from Russia. This is not funny. This is called treason in Russian.
    This is not a brotherly shoulder, but some kind of cookie in your pocket. Luke was so loved and respected in Russia until a certain point .... and fell so low in the eyes of Russians that the West and the Poles will no longer help him. Alas, he chooses the road is not only for himself, but for the whole fraternal state, and it remains only to sympathize with Putin, who hates any betrayal, and forced to communicate with Lukashenko. The position of which is becoming increasingly miserable, petty, and shameful.
    1. Lazy person
      Lazy person 21 May 2016 23: 49
      -1
      Quote: kon125
      Then with Ukraine, the lack of a clear answer to the Maidan, the desire to sit on several chairs.
      But a visit to Turkey after a vile blow to the back of Russia, a demonstrative desire to stand out as an independent player from Russia. This is not funny. This is called treason in Russian.

      There is truth in these words.
      Quote: kon125
      Putin hating any betrayal

      Your Putin, that fruit. New Russia then betrayed.
    2. avt
      avt 22 May 2016 14: 10
      +2
      Quote: kon125
      but in 2008 it became somehow incomprehensible, after Abkhazia and Ossetia, why the brothers did not support us ...

      request Why is it incomprehensible then? But father specifically voiced the leadership of Russia and confirmed this to the media. Young said so - what if I lose the European market because of this? Here’s the darego Vladimyr Vladimirovich - throw me up annually for the amount sold in Yavropa with the euro, well, compensate for the probable losses annually - I pop it out. So for the good loot, you’ll find out.
  24. Lazy person
    Lazy person 21 May 2016 23: 45
    +2
    By the way, what is the pope bad? He seems to be in contra with European values.
    1. Dr. Sorge
      Dr. Sorge 23 May 2016 21: 10
      +2
      Oh, do not rush, please read the story. :( But today a step towards the meeting is a necessary measure to resolve the disaster in the former Ukraine.
  25. Torins
    Torins 21 May 2016 23: 55
    +4
    Quote: kon125
    Lukashenko admired, like many, but in 2008 it somehow became unclear, after Abkhazia and Ossetia, why the brothers did not support us ... Then with Ukraine, the lack of a clear answer to the Maidan, the desire to sit on several chairs.
    But a visit to Turkey after a vile blow to the back of Russia, a demonstrative desire to stand out as an independent player from Russia. This is not funny. This is called treason in Russian.
    This is not a brotherly shoulder, but some kind of cookie in your pocket. Luke was so loved and respected in Russia until a certain point .... and fell so low in the eyes of Russians that the West and the Poles will no longer help him. Alas, he chooses the road is not only for himself, but for the whole fraternal state, and it remains only to sympathize with Putin, who hates any betrayal, and forced to communicate with Lukashenko. The position of which is becoming increasingly miserable, petty, and shameful.

    I got sick of already writing this in EVERY topic:
    1. The leadership of the Russian Federation is completely satisfied with the foreign policy of Belarus
    2. Nobody ever asked us to recognize the independence of either Crimea or Ossetia
    3. We have the right to our own interests besides Russian. You have reduced the volume of purchases of our products. We are looking for buyers, hence the visits to Turkey, Africa, Venezuela and Brazil. The leadership of the Republic of Belarus is still in a position to make up for losses from the doubled Russian market and this is correct.
    4. And how should we respond to the Maidan? Enter your troops? Stop diplomatic relations with Ukraine, which is second after Russia in the market for our products? Do you consider us kamikaze or where?
    1. Lazy person
      Lazy person 21 May 2016 23: 58
      +2
      Quote: Torins
      I got sick of already writing this in EVERY topic:

      It’s like the Old Man did wrong in Turkey that he flew. The benefits are 0, but it really smacks of betrayal.
      And Ukraine can even shit in the mouth, because they have a big ass swallowed and will not go anywhere.
    2. Anatole Klim
      Anatole Klim 22 May 2016 08: 28
      +3
      Quote: Torins
      I got sick of already writing this in EVERY topic:
      1. The leadership of the Russian Federation is completely satisfied with the foreign policy of Belarus
      2. Nobody ever asked us to recognize the independence of either Crimea or Ossetia

      You are either disingenuous or do not know:
      SOCHI, Aug 3 2010 - RIA News. Russia is interested in the international recognition of Abkhazia and South Ossetia, but this is not an end in itself. As for Belarus, its president Alexander Lukashenko in the presence of colleagues promised recognize both republics, said Russian President Dmitry Medvedev.
      "We are interested in being recognized. But this is not an end in itself. This task was not and is not worth it," Medvedev said, answering journalists' questions.
      As for Minsk, then, as Medvedev noted, Lukashenko previously spoke about determined to recognize Abkhazia and South Ossetia. This Promise The Belarusian leader gave in the presence of the leaders of several CIS countries, the President of the Russian Federation specified.
      RIA Novosti http://ria.ru/politics/20100803/261206899.html#14243628616143&message=resize&r
      to = register & action = addClass & value = registration # ixzz3SD0HxMmP
      Regarding the Crimea, then a paragraph in general, Lukashenko at a meeting with Turchinov called on Ukraine to fight for the Crimea, which means killing Russian soldiers. When a Russian attack aircraft was shot down in Syria, on that day Lukashenko expressed his condolences to the people of Myanmar in connection with the landslide, not a word to the Russians, cynicism and more. Have you ever heard that we have a union state, and we must support each other not only economically, but also politically
      And how should we respond to the Maidan? Enter your troops? Stop diplomatic relations with Ukraine

      And it never occurred to you that in the Donbass old people, women and children were dying of hunger, cold and lack of medicines, and sending at least one humcon convoy was a matter of conscience and honor, but what am I talking about, because Lukashenko said that there’s no Russian world, so keep pecking Vyacheslav.
    3. kon125
      kon125 22 May 2016 20: 19
      -1
      You are so knowledgeable that you are a bit sick ...
    4. Werterex
      Werterex 24 May 2016 05: 21
      0
      Exactly! Rid yourself off from the Bulbash brothers))))) They are the right military ... I think so ....
  26. Kostya Andreev
    Kostya Andreev 22 May 2016 00: 03
    +4
    Quote: Torins
    Yeah, give you cheap equipment and products, but in return you don’t want to give anything cheap? Collaboration should be mutually beneficial, and not just all beloved. Otherwise, no one will cooperate.
    P.S. I noticed that any comment in defense of Belarus immediately gains a bunch of minuses, what kind and friendly people are there


    You have a strange concept about vazimo-beneficial cooperation. Your entire industry is supported on subsidies and sales markets of the Russian Federation. could Belarus pick up its products, equipment, and textile products from my city. these products take away the work of our manufacturers.
    you can not sell for cheap, find a buyer who pays a high price, and stop trading at a loss.

    in order not to accuse each other of deceiving, you just need to start working without benefits, discounts and other things, for example, the Russian Federation must pay for goods at world prices, ((for example, buy Belarusian goods without discounts). And Belarusian goods are sold with the same requirements that apply to imported goods. (protective duties, etc., etc.).
    1. avt
      avt 22 May 2016 09: 43
      +3
      Quote: Kostya Andreev
      you can not sell for cheap, find a buyer who pays a high price, and stop trading at a loss.

      Here, after all, as in the movies - "Sit down, defendant." "Thank you, I will stand", Citizen judge! But he can't. "I tried But Father and more than once, like the Belarusian colleagues, well, the very ones who
      Quote: Starik72
      And here everything is simple. Who owns KAMAZ? Most likely OLIGARCH, who puts his interests ABOVE STATE! Therefore, the destruction of a competitor in the face of the MZKT is so important to him. He will buy the MZKT, then he will tear it apart, receive an order and a lot of money, and it will be as they say in chocolate. And WE Belarusians will get the tinned production and we will suck the paw. This is my opinion.

      Somehow they quietly do not remember Batsky’s attempt to get into MAN in his dealer network with MAZ and how he flew out from there like scalded with screams - they say I’m holding on with all my might, I’m not selling the plant, and you are delaying diesel from Yaroslavl for me! laughing Why did the German cease then? Broke off the chances? Again, long before the Russians, the Ford engine got into the car and started collecting cars. Where is that plant?
      Quote: Kostya Andreev
      in order not to accuse each other of deceiving, you just need to start working without benefits, discounts and other things

      laughing laughing Yes, a life cycle with nails for that! This is an asshole at once to everything, to the Belarusian economic miracle "... right away ... completely and irrevocably! Remember where GDP and Batskaya quarreled, and right away, well, when the GDP offered to separate flies from cutlets, pulling Buttons to answer for HIS SAME run about a single means of payment with Russia. Yes, he swung at the sacred, at a gesheft through the exchange rate difference between monetary units! And you still want to expose for different duties and discounts - a sadist! Yon will not survive this. So it turns out - "But he can't. " request laughing Because the whole pyramid called “Belarusian economic miracle” will collapse, it is already collapsing under the weight of the collected loans, this is not discussing anything else, but with your proposal everything will be in a stupor the next day after its application after the official publication.
      1. Kostya Andreev
        Kostya Andreev 22 May 2016 11: 13
        +2
        One thing is not clear, why some Belarusians do not understand this?
        1. avt
          avt 22 May 2016 11: 33
          +1
          Quote: Kostya Andreev
          One thing is not clear, why some Belarusians do not understand this?

          request Well, probably because they sincerely believe that all this is a Belarusian economic miracle itself, in spite of Russia, that's how it was by itself, by the efforts of one Butler, for the earned pennies. Again, this was all well fueled by Butler, starting with "Belarusian is a Russian with a quality mark" with a song about suyenam statehood and ending with the realization that in the Kremlin, in the Throne Room, not even a reclining chair on the throne - the stool next to it does not shine, smoothly turned into "I do not trade in independence" and magnanimity. Well, like yes - we are brotherly brothers, but dear Russians - "if you look with an armed eye," then, like, you are the seventh water on jelly. And the habitual sucking of two queens by tender calves also breaks off. Hike already from all sides, realizing what is real the money will not be repulsed, with Batski they began to ask specifically political nishtyaks, moreover, of a military nature - as an air force base for the Russian Federation. And now our foul neighbor gaspadar howled - Belarus is between a rock and a hard place! What is the gaspada of Belarus?
  27. cherkas.oe
    cherkas.oe 22 May 2016 18: 27
    +2
    B ... b, it’s as if the déjà vu is starting, the same crunch we had with the Ukrainians all of 2013, and then they still took and jumped, to the tune of the State Department.
    1. avt
      avt 22 May 2016 20: 53
      +2
      Quote: cherkas.oe
      B ... b, it’s as if the déjà vu is starting, the same crunch we had with the Ukrainians all of 2013, and then they still took and jumped, to the tune of the State Department.

      request Yes, they really warned in exactly the same way! And by no means the stupid then regulars of the site from Ukraine in response - yes never! And even as today with Belarus / Belarus everyone was taught to / from Ukraine. Then - you envy our revolution of hymnity, we are for the Maidan, we are universal justice ... I wrote to them then - guys! Alas, in Kiev, it’s real that after the revelry of sects, something is not right in large numbers with people’s head, oh then I’ve been minus laughing Well, in the end, here’s how now the silence from there, again, the moderators extinguish frank Svidomo trolls, and those, well, the old ones don’t really discuss too much. Well, what to do - History teaches us that nothing is taught to those who a priori / in kind that he is asleep, and he cannot have this, because he cannot have it - he knows that. Incidentally, Russia also concerns us.
      1. cherkas.oe
        cherkas.oe 22 May 2016 21: 12
        0
        Quote: avt
        Incidentally, Russia also concerns us.

        As regards, some of my acquaintances, who until recently quite realistically assessed the events, the circumstances of geopolitics and internal problems, having lived for a year with a salary cut by 33%, suddenly started talking about the fact that we don't fucking need Donbas, Syria and Palmyra. I think this is against the background of the fact that the top officials steal - and they steal, as they lived happily ever after, they still live. And they just think: how to increase the retirement age, not to index pensions for working pensioners, not to increase the cost of living, and to raise prices every month, given the ridiculous purchasing power of the ruble. Jokes - jokes, but it seems to me that a surprise awaits both the GDP and "United Russia" in the autumn elections.
        1. avt
          avt 22 May 2016 22: 08
          +1
          Quote: cherkas.oe
          I think this is against the background of the fact that the top officials steal - and they steal, as they lived happily ever after, they still live. And they just think: how to increase the retirement age, not to index pensions for working pensioners, not to increase the living wage and to raise prices every month, given the ridiculous purchasing power of the ruble. Jokes - jokes, but it seems to me that a surprise awaits both the GDP and United Russia in the autumn elections.

          No. Not a surprise, but quite a preparation for them. "February 1917" Well, when there were interruptions with bread in St. Petersburg, and trains with food stood on the tracks not unloaded. Very current runs about privatization, retirement age and the absence of the "Holy Inquisition" are similar to this scenario. Yes, and guess the time - well, they love symbolism. This is despite the fact that the real money on deposits in banks is and no one moves it into the economy. This is how the Bolsheviks created after October 1917
          Cheka SNK of the RSFSR - All-Russian Extraordinary Commission to Combat Counter-Revolution and Sabotage under the Council of People's Commissars of the RSFSR (1917-1922). It was founded on December 7 (20), 1917. [1] It was liquidated with the transfer of powers to the State Political Administration (GPU NKVD RSFSR) under the NKVD RSFSR on February 6, 1922.
          Note - on the fight and against sabotage. Only in 1922 did it become a real political forceful punitive body - the "vanguard of the Bolshevik Party", then, respectively, of the Communists.
          1. cherkas.oe
            cherkas.oe 22 May 2016 22: 45
            +2
            Quote: avt
            All-Russian Extraordinary Commission for Combating Counter-Revolution and Sabotage under the Council of People's Commissars

            We now have neither Soviets, nor commissioners. Under this government, it’s too hard for the Cheka to create? lol But the GDP does not itch, all of their own - no one to plant. So maybe before the coup diberalit. He himself will not notice how his companions-friends will be in the zugunderder, as Beria once, and will declare him a libertine and a Martian spy who arrived on Earth to destroy democracy in Russia. How do you like this option? belay
        2. Victor jnnjdfy
          Victor jnnjdfy 22 May 2016 22: 10
          +2
          Unfortunately, the rest of the parties do not differ much from United Russia, except for their rhetoric. Each also has its own leader - Zyuganov / Mironov / Zhirinovsky and its own leaders. I'm not sure that any of the three "leaders" will be better than Putin. The choice we have with you is not particularly ...
      2. Dr. Sorge
        Dr. Sorge 23 May 2016 21: 02
        +2
        Speak soberly.
        And I add that we all allowed to destroy in Ukraine. Both Russia and Belarus. His inaction, ideological, political. The lack of political will and weakness for the oligarchs, whose loot is stored in the pindostan and other georops.
    2. Dr. Sorge
      Dr. Sorge 23 May 2016 21: 06
      +3
      You know, you don’t have to immediately, but to tell each other how to help. For the Americans are dancing over our quarrels and are really happy about victories over us. And so that the terrible thing that happened with Belarus in our country does not happen to Belarus, we must unite for the sake of our united world, and not count the interest on gas (according to the methodology of the State Department). :)
  28. something like
    something like 22 May 2016 20: 06
    +1
    Quote: R-22
    And first of all, you need to carefully look at our internal scum in the highest echelons of power that impede the rapprochement of fraternal countries and peoples, sabotage and betrayal everywhere. Old Man doesn’t, sometimes it’s just not possible to collaborate with pro-alarchic representatives of various structures working under the guise of fraternal Russia, alas.
  29. Antiprogressor
    Antiprogressor 23 May 2016 17: 48
    +1
    Quote: Anatole Klim
    Quote: vmo
    He is a collective farm and a collective farm in Belarus.

    The point is not the collective farm, but its unpredictable chairman. stop

    If we are afraid of a change of Presidents of Kazakhstan, Belarus and others with a change in preferences and courses, then they look at the Kremlin in the same way. The history of which only twists does not show. Moreover, all this is so often that the stability of the policy of any country speaks only about the upcoming powerful upheavals ...