Military Review

Finnish President believes that joining NATO is impossible without a referendum

46
Finnish President Saule Niinistö in an interview with the radio station ERR (Estonia) said that he could allow his country to become a member of the North Atlantic Alliance. According to Niinistö, the answer to such questions can only be obtained in accordance with the opinion of the majority of the Finnish population. And for this you need a referendum:


In order for something in Finland to change in this matter (the issue of NATO membership - approx. "IN"), public opinion must change. I believe that the opinion that one often hears about the fact that the people do not need to ask anything through a referendum, because the people do not understand a lot, it’s wrong. We once held a referendum on joining the EU. And in the current situation, I consider the issue of joining NATO even more important.


Finnish President believes that joining NATO is impossible without a referendum


At the same time, the President of Finland said that his country had enough military resources to protect itself from potential threats, while adding that Finland was trying to seek pragmatic relations with any countries, including the United States and Russia.

Recall that Finland officially adheres to military neutrality. Sauli Niinistö also supported this position the other day, noting that there is no need to change anything in the Finnish position in relation to joining various military blocs.

In the leadership of NATO, meanwhile, every effort is being made to draw Finland and Sweden into the alliance, offering new and new horror stories about the "Russian threat" and that only in NATO these countries will be safe.
Photos used:
https://www.facebook.com/niinisto
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  1. Denis Obukhov
    Denis Obukhov 17 May 2016 16: 12
    0
    I would like to advise him (the President of Finland) whether you take off your cross or take off your pants. You cannot be in NATO and develop good neighborly relations with the Russian Federation.
    1. cniza
      cniza 17 May 2016 16: 14
      +9
      Quote: Denis Obukhov
      I would like to advise him (the President of Finland) whether you take off your cross or take off your pants. You cannot be in NATO and develop good neighborly relations with the Russian Federation.


      He wants to hide behind a referendum to reduce pressure on himself from the United States.
      1. Ami du peuple
        Ami du peuple 17 May 2016 16: 23
        +1
        Quote: cniza
        He wants to hide behind a referendum to reduce pressure on himself from the United States.
        The memory of our pressure outweighs the American. The past pressure on the Mannerheim Line with the subsequent loss of 40 thousand kmXNUMX of territory (including Karelia, Vyborg, etc.) is not seen in vain. Remember Tourmalai smile
    2. Shuttle
      Shuttle 17 May 2016 18: 08
      +4
      Quote: Denis Obukhov
      I would like to advise him (the President of Finland) whether you take off your cross or take off your pants. You cannot be in NATO and develop good neighborly relations with the Russian Federation.

      Can.
      You just have to be good neighbors.
      Finns and I once lived in the same country.
      Then we even attacked them, no matter how the Soviet-Finnish war began.
      In World War II, to put it mildly, they were not for us.
      But after the war, we learned to live together peacefully.

      And the Finnish president is right. The question of entry must be asked to the people. The Finnish government is well aware, unlike the zapadentsev and tribaltov, that their country is not an aircraft carrier, and will not sail anywhere from Russia, no matter how rowing it is. Therefore, even if someone in the country really wants to join NATO, you should consult your neighbors very seriously.
    3. Altona
      Altona 17 May 2016 18: 39
      0
      Quote: Denis Obukhov
      You cannot be in NATO and develop good neighborly relations with the Russian Federation.

      ----------------------
      Dates are not fools enough to join supranational structures, where they will be commanded when "to the left, to the right and around." Then goodbye to normal relations with Russia and build a new Mannerheim Line at your own expense, plus accept pissed American negritos as allied soldiers.
    4. vodolaz
      vodolaz 17 May 2016 21: 34
      0
      Finns in schools are in full swing to learn Russian and understand perfectly what they shine about joining NATO on an economic plane.
  2. Yak-15
    Yak-15 17 May 2016 16: 15
    +1
    So the Finnish guys got excited about joining the alliance and the referendum means that they changed their minds. The way out of the delicate situation with a beautiful face.
  3. udincev
    udincev 17 May 2016 16: 16
    +3
    The Finns are wise enough to go where they are not falling just because the wind is blowing like that. They have been neighbors with us for a long time and must have seen dummies that others easily buy.
  4. The black
    The black 17 May 2016 16: 16
    +4
    For Finland, joining NATO will be the stupidest mistake since cooperation with the Nazis! Western resources are already running wild propaganda under the slogan "NATO = EU". And an ordinary Finnish citizen, alas, already has such a picture in his head. And as a result - joining this military bloc, which is de facto controlled entirely from across the ocean (and the guys there really don't give a damn about the whole EU, look, at least, at the refugee situation) and sometimes strongly resembles a large terrorist organization will give the Finns only a wild cold snap in relation to the Russian Federation and extra expenses in the form of membership fees. In short, even in such a seemingly adequate country as Finland, the cart of politics is put ahead of the horse-economy
    1. Vladimirets
      Vladimirets 17 May 2016 16: 20
      +1
      Quote: Black
      Western resources are already running wild propaganda under the slogan "NATO = EU".

      Not only our "agitprop" works. yes
  5. x.andvlad
    x.andvlad 17 May 2016 16: 28
    +5
    To fool people with their heads is the favorite thing of American propaganda. It is encouraging that apparently the Finns are not as hopeless as the Norwegians, for example. By the way, from our side we also do not need to sleep on the stove. It is necessary to support the sound thoughts of the Finns regarding good neighborliness with Russia and to contribute to this in every way. You can unobtrusively send a couple of TV and radio channels in their direction.
    1. Dr. Bormental
      Dr. Bormental 17 May 2016 16: 56
      +1
      Yes, the dates are normal guys, with such a peasant hardening and a little slow-thinking. It was NATO that drove them sick. So who does not like to fuss and change something, it's just the Chukhons. I live in St. Petersburg, from many acquaintances there the land was bought there (well, like a cottage), for the weekend we went like to a country house. There are acquaintances, Russians, who married Finnish people living permanently there. They say the Finns are very unhappy with all these sanctions, their business is suffering a lot, especially dairy.
    2. Dr. Bormental
      Dr. Bormental 17 May 2016 16: 56
      -1
      Yes, the dates are normal guys, with such a peasant hardening and a little slow-thinking. It was NATO that drove them sick. So who does not like to fuss and change something, it's just the Chukhons. I live in St. Petersburg, from many acquaintances there the land was bought there (well, like a cottage), for the weekend we went like to a country house. There are acquaintances, Russians, who married Finnish people living permanently there. They say the Finns are very unhappy with all these sanctions, their business is suffering a lot, especially dairy.
  6. iliya87
    iliya87 17 May 2016 16: 30
    +1
    In the leadership of NATO, meanwhile, every effort is being made to draw Finland and Sweden into the alliance, offering new and new horror stories about the "Russian threat" and that only in NATO these countries will be safe.

    And then the horror stories? The United States is looking for an approach, they need territory for military facilities near Russia. But the Finns and the Swedes will run like nice, they will put pressure on them through the EU on the economy and will give in the mouth and ass.
  7. Arktidianets
    Arktidianets 17 May 2016 16: 30
    +1
    A beautiful decision from the president, on the one hand, the political and financial establishment is being pressured by friends from across the ocean, on the other hand, the mattresses and EU partners themselves, and ordinary people will never allow the country to enter NATO, ordinary Finns do not want to become targets for our sun, the referendum will put everything in its place.
  8. raid14
    raid14 17 May 2016 16: 31
    +1
    The words about the referendum are just an excuse, everyone understands perfectly well, Western polytechnologists "ate the dog" on them, the manipulation of the results in Great Britain, the choice of the people in the Netherlands, is an empty phrase for them.
  9. Dr. Bormental
    Dr. Bormental 17 May 2016 16: 42
    +2
    Yeah, as we stopped from St. Petersburg to go to them for a weekend to eat for the weekend, we became more accommodating. In Laperanta (a border city with Russia), they had a whole supermarket with Russian-speaking staff, not to mention all kinds of crashes and shallans with smoked / salted red fish and caviar ... half of Peter had their products littered ... and now pipes. ..
  10. Verdun
    Verdun 17 May 2016 16: 47
    +2
    Saule Niinistö thinks correctly. Finland is a small country and, in which case, residents can make claims to their president directly in person. And if there are a lot of complaints, then the person may suffer.))
    And the Finns and the Swedes will run like nice, put pressure on them through the EU on the economy ... iliya87
    I don’t know how the Swedes are there, but to the honor of General Manerheim, it’s said that in WWII, having reached their former borders in the Leningrad direction, the Finns didn’t go further. Although, I suspect, they were also pressured then.
    1. Dr. Bormental
      Dr. Bormental 17 May 2016 17: 00
      -1
      Quote: Verdun
      to the honor of General Manerheim be said, in WWII, having reached its former borders in the Leningrad direction

      Mannerheim was a Russian officer, he graduated from the Russian Academy of the General Staff under the tsar and wholeheartedly loved and respected Russia. I read his biography .. extraordinary personality.
      1. opus
        opus 17 May 2016 17: 23
        +3
        Quote: Dr. Bormental
        Mannerheim was a Russian officer, graduated from the Russian Academy of the General Staff under the Tsar

        1. Headed the Court Stables
        2. GSh Academy did not finish
        He graduated from the University of Helsingfors (1887) and the Nikolaev Cavalry School (Petersburg). From 1889 to 1917 he served in Russian. army. During the 1 World War I commanded the Cav. division and served at the rate of Russian. high command; Lieutenant General (1917)
        Quote: Dr. Bormental
        wholeheartedly loved and respected Russia.

        After the revolution, he left for Finland. 31.12.1917 The Soviet government recognized the independence of Finland. Since 1918, Mannerheim has been the Commander-in-Chief of the Finnish Army. Together with the German forces suppressed the 1918 revolution in Finland; to 05.1918 cleared Finland of Soviet troops and active pro-Soviet elements. 12.12.1918 was elected Regent of Finland, 12.1918 — 25.07.1919. Soviet Russia and Finland 10.1920 concluded a peace treaty. However, up to 1922, the white finns invaded the territory of Russia. (In 1918 — 1920 in Finland, on Karelia and the Karelian Isthmus, Finland supported anti-Soviet troops in northeastern Russia, and its Belofin units took part in the battles of the Olonets Volunteer Army (General Skobeltsyn) and the Northern Army (General Miller) against Soviet troops.)
        do you recognize M.'s "colleagues"?




        During the Soviet-Finnish war and the 2-World War II - Commander-in-Chief of the Finnish Army (1939-44), the President of Finland at 1944-46. Although Finland entered the war on the side of Germany, after the war M. was not brought to justice by the Allied Control Commission. Last years he lived in Switzerland.

        "From America, I decided to go to European Russia, give a report to the Government about my trip and then start doing something. I had to wait for the first steamer from San Francisco for a long time. It was the Lyons steamer Cario-Maru. I decided go through the Far West to the East. I chose this path primarily because at that time there was already a struggle in Finland, Mannerheim’s offensive and hostile actions against the Russians began. According to some reports, I suspected that Mannerheim was a German henchman. "

        A.V. Kolchak.

        Protocol of the meeting of the Extraordinary Investigation Commission in the Kolchak case. (Verbatim report). Meeting of the Extraordinary Investigative Commission 27 January 1920 c. in the book: Kolchak Okrest: documents and materials. Compiled by Doctor of Historical Sciences, Professor A.V. Quakin. M., 2007. C. 374.
        1. Verdun
          Verdun 17 May 2016 17: 39
          0
          According to some reports, I suspected that Mannerheim was a German henchman. "

          A.V. Kolchak.
          According to some sources
          Hinrich Marhein, the oldest known ancestor of Gustav Mannerheim, was baptized at St. Jacob's Church in Hamburg on December 28, 1618. From the record of his birth, it follows that his father was a certain Henning Marhein, who was granted citizenship of the city of Hamburg in 1607 [3].
          At the same time, from the beginning of the XNUMXth century, Manerheim treated Russia favorably. Probably because a significant part of their economic interests spread to the territory of Russia.
          Mannerheim’s grandfather, Karl Gustav, in whose honor he received his name, was president of the court (gofgericht - appellate court) in Vyborg and a well-known entomological scientist, and his father was an industrialist conducting large-scale affairs throughout Russia and a great expert in literature
          When referring to the accusations from the mouth of Kolchak, who himself was a double agent, at least strange.
          1. opus
            opus 17 May 2016 18: 41
            +2
            Quote: Verdun
            When referring to the accusations from the mouth of Kolchak, who himself was a double agent, at least strange.

            refer to that thread, which is not strange.
            Prove that M.
            Quote: Dr. Bormental
            wholeheartedly loved and respected Russia.
        2. Dr. Bormental
          Dr. Bormental 17 May 2016 18: 19
          -1
          I’m not a historian ... I don’t have the right to go into the details of his biography, because read his biography about 10 years ago. I remembered what I wrote in the previous comment.
          1. opus
            opus 17 May 2016 18: 40
            +2
            Quote: Dr. Bormental
            I am not a historian ... I do not have the right to go into the details of his biography

            Yes it is clear. BUT:
            1. GSh Academy did not end, did not shine with special talents (although he was daring and cunning)
            2. Russian not very much and "loved"

            Quote: Dr. Bormental
            because read his biography about 10 years ago.

            http://militera.lib.ru/memo/other/mannerheim/index.html
            http://terijoki-spb.ru/history/templ.php?page=mannerg&lang=ru

            Read.

            The fact that M. died peacefully in Switzerland, in 1951, and did not attend the Nuremberg Tribunal - he had to say a big thank you to Stalin (he did not want to stir up the "roughness of the winter war")
            1. Verdun
              Verdun 17 May 2016 18: 54
              -1
              The fact that M. died peacefully in Switzerland, in 1951, and did not attend the Nuremberg Tribunal - he had to say a big thank you to Stalin (he did not want to stir up the "roughness of the winter war")
              I think it's not just the "winter war" that matters. Iosif Vissarionovich just understood very well that if the Finns hadn't been on the border, if you had moved on, Leningrad would not have resisted.
              Mannerheim presented the version that since the security of Leningrad was the main motive of the USSR for the outbreak of the Winter War, crossing the old border meant indirectly recognizing the validity of these fears (the border was universally crossed). Mannerheim refused to give in to German pressure and ordered the troops to go on the defensive along the line of the historical Russian-Finnish border on the Karelian Isthmus. At the same time, it was the Finnish troops that ensured the blockade of Leningrad from the north.
              Maybe he thanked the Soviet Generalissimo of the Finnish Marshal for this in such a manner. And about proving that Mannerheim wholeheartedly loved Russia ... Loved or not - I don’t know, but he fought for it and fought well. But he was not a communist and even a socialist and had his own, purely capitalist interest in Russia.
              1. opus
                opus 17 May 2016 19: 09
                +2
                Quote: Verdun
                do not become Finns on the border, move on - Leningrad would not resist.

                1. What does this have to do with the Nuremberg trials?
                2. What could the Finnish Armed Forces do with Leningrad?
                By the summer of 1941, two Finnish armies were concentrated on the borders with the Soviet Union - on the Karelian Isthmus the Southeast Army (six divisions, one brigade) under the command of General Axel Erik Heinrichs and in East Karelia the Karelian Army (five divisions , three brigades) under the command of General Lenart Ashe. Four Finnish divisions are 60 000 people.
                In response to the bombardment of 25 on June 1941 of its cities and military installations by the Soviet Air Force, Finland declared war on the USSR the same day, which was called the “Continuation War” (Jatkosota). Also, Estonian volunteers (2500 people) served in the Finnish Armed Forces, of which on February 8 1944 the 10 Regiment (200 people) was formed as part of the 1700 Infantry Division under the command of Colonel Eino Kuusela. The regiment fought on the Karelian Isthmus and near Vyborg. In addition, 250 Estonians served in the Finnish Navy.
                IF IT WERE NOT ABLE TO BREAK the forces of the Wehrmacht? Directly thrashing through Leningrad!

                Finnish soldiers are examining the dead Red Army soldiers. Summer 1941

                3. Helsinki bombing by Soviet aircraft, 30 November 1939


                1. Verdun
                  Verdun 17 May 2016 19: 19
                  0
                  1. What does this have to do with the Nuremberg trials?
                  2. What could the Finnish Armed Forces be able to do with Leningrad? ... IF IT WERE NOT ABLE TO BREAK the forces of the Wehrmacht? Those who hit Leningrad with direct aim!
                  1. Exactly the same as your statement about the "Winter War". 2. In such a situation, even the smallest impact could be decisive. At the same time, my uncle, a career officer who had a chance to fight on the Volkhov front, praised the Finnish soldiers. Oddly enough, even higher than a Wehrmacht soldier.
                  1. opus
                    opus 17 May 2016 19: 47
                    +3
                    Quote: Verdun
                    1. Exactly the same as your statement about the "Winter War".

                    two big differences.
                    1. "Thank you" IVS for the fact that Manerheim did not take Leningrad ... well, not funny.
                    The trousers would be torn, just the strength was not enough to keep what they took ...


                    You preach the legends of the 2000's, then a new version appeared that Finland supposedly “protected” Leningrad or even “saved” it. They especially want to pay attention to the new role of Marshal of Finland Mannerheim as the “savior of Leningrad”, when he allegedly refused to step on Leningrad. The authors of these gross falsifications and false claims are the pseudo-historians Okhto Manninen, Timo Vihavainen, as well as the revanchist organizations ProKarelia and others, which began to demand some compensation from Russia for the fact that Finland “saved” the city of Leningrad. Your "theories" are also consonant with the opinion of the pseudo-historian Mark Yoksipil, who writes, that only Finland could lead Germany to complete victory, including the occupation of Leningrad, but Finland supposedly refused.
                    Yeah "refused".

                    It is known historically that Finland was ready send military police to occupied Leningrad near 30.000 to organize purges in the city.
                    It did not work out, they took a wide step.

                    when the Finnish envoy presented the state award to G. Goering, the Reichsmarschall declared that Finland would soon receive a gift "Petersburg, which, after all, like Moscow: it is better to destroy", Mannerheim's troops were preparing to plunder the city on the Neva from June 25, 1941

                    Shl in 1945-1946. in Helsinki, a "small town" trial of the main Finnish war criminals took place
                    Quote: Verdun
                    .
                    2: In such a situation, even the smallest impact could be decisive.


                    this is incomprehensible to the mind: how could Finland, with its 3,5 millions of people, have plans to capture Leningrad, having already bitten off a good piece of the pie?
                    Resources where?

                    In 1941 - 1944 years. Germany supplied the Finnish Air Force with new aircraft, including: - 48 fighter Messerschmitt Bf 109G-2, 132 fighter Bf 109G-6, 15 bombers Dornier Do 17Z-2 and 15 88 bombers
                    1. opus
                      opus 17 May 2016 19: 48
                      +2
                      In June 1944, Germany delivered the Panzerfaust and Panzerschreck anti-tank grenade launchers to the Finnish army of 15 tanks Pz IVJ and 25 000.
                      Quote: Verdun
                      At the same time, my uncle, a career officer who happened to fight on the Volkhov Front

                      I fought: 1 dear grandfather, 3 "cousins" or whatever, in the same place.
                      what does the fin soldier have to do with it?
                      Finnish parts SS "Viking" returning home from Russia to Finland?


                      FINNISH CONCENTRATION CENTER IN RUSSIA IN 1941-1944Y.- Forgotten

                      According to the director of the research institute, Johan Beckmann, Helge Seppälä’s work is unusual in that it directly and clearly, on the basis of irrefutable documents, spoke about the activities of the Finnish invaders in Karelia in 1941-1944: a thorough description is given racial discrimination, information about concentration camps for people of Slavic nationality. These camps were in practice death camps. The cruel regime of detention and punishment, hunger, high mortality are described. Seppälä’s work unequivocally proved that the Finnish occupation was openly fascist.

                      The mortality rate in all six Petrozavodsk concentration camps during this period was unusually high. It was even higher than in German camps, where mortality reached 10%, and in Finnish - 13,75%.
                      1. Verdun
                        Verdun 17 May 2016 20: 01
                        -2
                        this is incomprehensible to the mind: how could Finland, with its 3,5 millions of people, have plans to capture Leningrad, having already bitten off a good piece of the pie?
                        Resources where?
                        Listen, dear, tell me, where did I even write a word about such plans? !! I just said that the Finns did not put pressure on the Soviet troops in the direction of Leningrad and did not cross the 1939 border. If they exerted this pressure, it would greatly contribute to the capture of Leningrad by German troops. At the same time, tell me, referring to the works of Helge Seppälä, do you seriously believe that Mannerheim shared the idea of ​​the "Renaissance of Greater Finland"?
                      2. opus
                        opus 17 May 2016 20: 21
                        +1
                        Quote: Verdun
                        Listen, dear, tell me, where did I even write a word about such plans? !!

                        Well, if the IVS said thanks to Manerheim, then probably for something?
                        After all, not because they did not reach 30 km to the old border?
                        Quote: Verdun
                        and did not cross the border of 1939 of the year
                        this is not true..

                        After numerous requests from the German command, the Finns went on the offensive on July 10 1941. By this time, the front was already approaching Leningrad, so it was not so much about help (Wehrmacht), but about appropriation of someone else’s booty.

                        But even after 10 July, Finland only means military operations. The offensive begins on July 31, and is very sluggish. In fact, we are talking about the systematic retreat of the Soviet troops and the occupation of the abandoned positions without a fight. This is completely unlike the situation on other fronts. For the entire 1941 year, the USSR lost 20 000 people killed on the Karelian front.


                        How many Soviet soldiers died on the Karelian front, the longest front of the 2 world war? It turns out about 80 000 people. How many Finns died, these miraculous heroes who recently routed the Red Army? Yes, the same number - 80 000. Wherein our 80 000 includes losses from German troops in the Arctic, with which they mainly fought.


                        From Mannerheim now they are sculpting a Russian officer and a real Russian intellectual, well, well
                        Quote: Verdun
                        that Mannerheim shared the idea of ​​the "Renaissance of Greater Finland"?


                        HZ. he did not delve into the skull.

                        The military cabinet considered it possible to join Olonia and the White Sea Karelia to Finland.

                        Mannerheim Order 10 July 1941:
                        “At this historical moment for the world, German and Finnish soldiers — as in the liberation war of the 1918 of the year — are against the Bolshevism and the Soviet Union with their breasts. The struggle of the German brothers in arms next to our liberating soldiers in the North will further strengthen the long-standing and lasting military fraternity, help to eliminate the threat of Bolshevism and guarantee a bright future ...
                      3. Verdun
                        Verdun 17 May 2016 20: 31
                        0
                        The military cabinet considered it possible to join Olonia and the White Sea Karelia to Finland.
                        Everything is correct. Because without this, Finland’s participation in the war lost all meaning. At the same time, you endlessly refer to the Karelian Isthmus, and I’m talking about what was happening near Leningrad. I do not even exclude the possibility that Mannerheim loved Leningrad exclusively and cared only for the city itself. Tormented by nostalgia, I liked architecture ... But, from the military, and not political, point of view, the fact remains that the Finns had the opportunity to more actively influence the siege of Leningrad, but they did not.
                      4. opus
                        opus 17 May 2016 21: 00
                        +2
                        Quote: Verdun
                        At the same time, you endlessly refer to the Karelian Isthmus, and I’m talking about what happened near Leningrad.

                        Because when you walk widely, you can tear your pants
                        Quote: opus
                        this is incomprehensible to the mind: how could Finland, with its 3,5 millions of people, have plans to capture Leningrad, having already bitten off a good piece of the pie?

                        The defensive lines of Leningrad, and the city itself (the losses of the Soviet Army during the capture of Berlin, should I recall?) Are not muhras of the muhra (the isthmus, Karelia, etc.).
                        They would put their whole nation there.
                        Quote: Verdun
                        that Mannerheim loved exclusively Leningrad and cared only about the city itself. Tormented by nostalgia, I liked the architecture ..

                        repeat
                        Quote: opus
                        They especially want to pay attention to the new role of Marshal of Finland Mannerheim as the “savior of Leningrad”, when he allegedly refused to step on Leningrad. The authors of these gross falsifications and false claims are the pseudo-historians Okhto Manninen, Timo Vihavainen, as well as the revanchist organizations ProKarelia and others, which began to demand some compensation from Russia for the fact that Finland “saved” the city of Leningrad.

                        pants (a chance to break) and sober calculation.
                        he felt sorry for the "Finnish soldier"
                        Quote: Verdun
                        Finns had the opportunity to more actively influence the siege of Leningrad,

                        Of course ... like the Japanese, they could even influence the course of 2MB ...
                        Yes, too, soberly drunk about Khalkhin Gol



                        came to the conclusion, yes, well, his tries.
                        And no matter how much Hitler called, all sabotaged
                2. Getoetet
                  Getoetet 17 May 2016 20: 30
                  +3
                  All right, I from Petrozavodsk-even the Germans in one city did not arrange 5 concentration camps. These were animals of pure water-animals. Like they were animals when they reached Petrozavodsk in 19 burning the peasants alive in their huts, and then in 21 years, the second campaign, then it reached only the porosozero
                3. The comment was deleted.
      2. Dr. Bormental
        Dr. Bormental 17 May 2016 19: 11
        -1
        Quote: opus
        The fact that M. died peacefully in Switzerland, in 1951, and did not attend the Nuremberg Tribunal - he had to say a big thank you to Stalin (he did not want to stir up the "roughness of the winter war")

        Well, something like that I put aside in my head his personality as completely ambiguous and for myself, personally, incomprehensible. The Russo-Finnish war is also a completely unexplored phenomenon.
        1. opus
          opus 17 May 2016 19: 54
          +3
          Quote: Dr. Bormental
          Well, that's about how I put aside his personality in my head as completely ambiguous for myself


          and right

          it is not surprising that even in the twenty-first century. at the monument to K. Mannerheim in Tampere The Finns themselves write the word "lahtori" ("butcher") in red paint.

          Baryshnikov V. N. "K. G. Mannerheim without retouching 1940–1944." For the first time, oddly enough, it was published in Finland by the Johann Beckmann Institute

          at the presentation of the Russian edition of the book "The Blockade of Leningrad and Finland" at the University of Helsinki in December 2002 attended even the Minister of Foreign Affairs E. Tuomioia

          Halsti WH Suomen sota 1939 – 1945 / Wolf H. Halsti. Helsinki, 1956.
      3. The comment was deleted.
  • Getoetet
    Getoetet 17 May 2016 20: 21
    +3
    Nuuuu. Uv. Dok. Bormantal))) Manerheim was a jackal and a creature, this non-human being and a traitor who brought up the Russian empire betrayed her. A man respecting Russia would never have done in the years of the occupation of Petrozvaodsk 5 !!! concentration camps!
    1. Verdun
      Verdun 17 May 2016 20: 46
      +1
      A man respecting Russia would never have done during the years of the occupation of Petrozvodsk 5 !!! concentration camps!
      In the process of revolution, Mannerheim lost all its possessions in Russia. And he behaved no better than many other noblemen and landowners who treated the ordinary population of the country as cattle. Most likely, he treated the conquered territories as his property, and all his actions were dictated by the desire to preserve these territories in the form most suitable for further use. But to confuse the causes of human actions and their results, the results are still not worth it. And by the way
      The most difficult periods for prisoners, associated with a large number of deaths, were 1942 and autumn 1944. In 1942, the increase in mortality of Finnish and Soviet prisoners was associated with a deterioration in the food situation in the USSR and Finland and the resulting decrease in rations. The fall of 1944 was especially difficult for the Finns. Before repatriation, they were collected at Cherepovets Camp No. 158. But the reassignment of the departments that supplied the camp with medicines created a critical situation with vaccines and serums against dysentery and diphtheria. Given that the Finns were weakened by malnutrition, it becomes clear why the percentage of sick and dead among them has grown significantly. In the USSR, 997 Finns died during the Continuation War, that is, the mortality rate of Finnish prisoners was 32%, taking into account those shot at the time of capture, in Finland - 18, that is 700%. In Germany, by comparison, 29% of Soviet soldiers died in captivity
      There is, as you see, such data.
    2. opus
      opus 17 May 2016 21: 05
      +3
      Quote: Getoetet
      Petrozvaodsk 5 !!! concentration camps!


      Quote: opus
      only in the vicinity of Petrozavodsk there were seven concentration campsth total seventeen camps and special prison,


      Cemetery of Soviet citizens tortured in Finnish concentration camps (1941 — 1944 gg.)




      1. The comment was deleted.
      2. Getoetet
        Getoetet 17 May 2016 21: 38
        +1
        in the city itself there were 5-and they call it now in memory of the district-5 settlement
        1. opus
          opus 17 May 2016 22: 16
          +1
          Quote: Getoetet
          in the city itself there were 5-and they call it now in memory of the district-5 settlement

          I won’t argue ... In Petrozavodsk, I was so awesome, in the distant 1992
  • Dr. Bormental
    Dr. Bormental 17 May 2016 17: 00
    0
    Quote: Verdun
    to the honor of General Manerheim be said, in WWII, having reached its former borders in the Leningrad direction

    Mannerheim was a Russian officer, he graduated from the Russian Academy of the General Staff under the tsar and wholeheartedly loved and respected Russia. I read his biography .. extraordinary personality.
    1. Besterfeind
      Besterfeind 17 May 2016 20: 41
      +1
      He loved that during 3 years Finnish troops crossed the border twice, bringing war to the state, from which they had just gained independence.
      Or do you think that all this happened as if without the knowledge of Mannerheim?
      He wanted to spit on Russia, acre of course its territories.
      He did not go beyond the old borders in the Second World War because of fear. what are Russians. having won the war. he and Finland will not be forgiven for this at all ...
  • Dmitry Potapov
    Dmitry Potapov 17 May 2016 17: 16
    +1
    Yes, in order to die at once everyone needs consent to ask everyone at once, and in order to live quietly one must also ask consent and live quietly, I hope the Finns are smart! We don’t care, the goal is more, the goal is less, how many countries we need and bury, we alone are able to get out of the ashes.
    1. The comment was deleted.
    2. Getoetet
      Getoetet 17 May 2016 20: 54
      +2
      NOT-they just know how to count the bullshit from our cooperation with them — receiving forest as raw materials as an appendix — and then reselling it in three ways
  • uskrabut
    uskrabut 17 May 2016 17: 18
    0
    Amerikosy want to be cool peppers - let it be, someone is against? But the Finns do not need this fuss. Small country, calm measured life. Why the hell are all these showdowns? And so they suffered with these sanctions, they just set up shops for the Russians - bam and stopped traveling for a ride. Finns and Russians are better friends and traders. America is far away, and Russia is near.
  • cap
    cap 17 May 2016 17: 21
    0
    In the leadership of NATO, meanwhile, every effort is being made to draw Finland and Sweden into the alliance, offering new and new horror stories about the "Russian threat" and that only in NATO these countries will be safe.

    They know very well how "safe" to be at gunpoint of Russian missiles.
    Don’t be fools.
  • kill the fascist
    kill the fascist 17 May 2016 17: 24
    +1
    the leadership of the dates even tries to portray democracy (democracy) and if it goes to NATO, then only at the request of the majority.
  • atamankko
    atamankko 17 May 2016 18: 20
    0
    A referendum is the best way out for the president.
  • Putnik_16
    Putnik_16 17 May 2016 18: 47
    0
    They will hold a referendum, the people will say NO and join NATO.
    A referendum is for order, so to speak .... hi
  • Awaz
    Awaz 17 May 2016 19: 04
    0
    there is such an international term "Finlandization" In general, it was specially created in order to settle the difficult relations between the USSR and Finland. But then it began to be used in other cases when there is a conflict between two countries, one of which is much more defective. If I'm not mistaken, this is one of the pillars of international law. But this is not even important. It is important that at one time this term allowed the Finns to rise and become rich and prosperous enough. By violating it, Finland violates, one might say, a peace treaty with Russia (USSR), that is, it breaks it. Of course, no one will attack them, but this is another provocation. And Russia has so every right to demand that Finland does not violate this treaty ... I think that even with the most severe measures.
    1. Dr. Bormental
      Dr. Bormental 17 May 2016 19: 17
      -1
      I do not think that dates are capable of anything. They are very adequate and peaceful. Closer ties with Peter. If they are somehow aggressive, then I will understand this exclusively as pressure on the leadership of Finland.
      1. Getoetet
        Getoetet 17 May 2016 20: 48
        +3
        Finns, extremely cruel people, were worse than any other German. How they methodically separated all Finns and national minorities in Karelia and how they mocked Russians
      2. Getoetet
        Getoetet 17 May 2016 20: 48
        0
        Finns, extremely cruel people, were worse than any other German. How they methodically separated all Finns and national minorities in Karelia and how they mocked Russians
      3. Besterfeind
        Besterfeind 17 May 2016 20: 49
        +1
        I am familiar with their peacefulness since the 90s.
        Drunk pigs, considering Russian subhuman.
        I still remember the hatred in the eyes of one of them.
        Then I realized one simple thing - a good Finn - at home or with us as fertilizer
    2. Dr. Bormental
      Dr. Bormental 17 May 2016 19: 17
      0
      I do not think that dates are capable of anything. They are very adequate and peaceful. Closer ties with Peter. If they are somehow aggressive, then I will understand this exclusively as pressure on the leadership of Finland.
      1. opus
        opus 17 May 2016 20: 05
        +3
        Quote: Dr. Bormental
        They are very adequate and peaceful.

        I do not agree, you simply do not know them.
        Finns, yes:
        1: A characteristic feature for Finns is honesty.
        2. Hardworking, care about the environment, comply with traffic rules ( wink )
        3.Love their country, honor traditions ..

        All losses in the "Winter War" with the Russians are flawlessly calculated - 26 soldiers killed and 662 wounded. All the victims - names, details and photographs - are included in a special book (can be found in every Finnish library).

        Finns have given 12% of their territory and will never forget it
        This is a hard memory. Resentment of the whole country.
        Hence the word Ryssä / ryus - meaning "Russian pig." In principle, it can often be heard in the back. And sometimes in the face. “Haista vittu saatanan ryssä” - “Smell the pi ... Russian pig"- this is a Finnish curse against Russians. ...

        Soviet prisoners of war surrounded by Finnish soldiers. Karelian Isthmus, September 1941 of the year - they remember this too


        And we do not remember and do not know this:
        Only in the vicinity of Petrozavodsk there were seven concentration camps, there are only seventeen camps and special prisons, many of whose prisoners did not have a chance to wait for their release. The orders in the Finnish concentration camps were not much different from the German ones, except for the worse.


        1. The comment was deleted.
        2. Getoetet
          Getoetet 17 May 2016 20: 33
          +3
          These mr-and-d-ds will be responsible for the liberation campaign to Petrozavodsk in 19, and for the second campaign in 21, too, for the burnt peasants in their huts because we granted them independence
        3. Parsec
          Parsec 17 May 2016 20: 43
          +2
          We know, we know, not a great mystery.

          The opposition of the Finns to the tsarist government from the end of the 1918th century had a very serious influence on the attitude of the Finns to the Russians even after Finland gained independence. It is from this moment (or rather, from the beginning of the Finnish Civil War in January XNUMX) that Russophobia in Finland takes on the most radical forms.

          The reason for this state of affairs was very clearly formulated by the Finnish historian O. Karemaa: “During the civil war in Finland, the kindled Russophobia, it seemed, was the desire of whites to make Russians scapegoats for all cruelties and thereby substantiate their own ideas,” “for psychological reasons it’s cruel They tried to disguise the truth about the fratricidal war as an ideological struggle in defense of Western culture from the Russians declared sworn enemies ... without an external enemy, it would be difficult to raise the masses to the war. ”

          In other words, the whites in Finland needed some kind of external threat in order to distract their own population from the deep political and socio-economic problems that led Finnish society to a split and war. And such a threat was declared by Soviet Russia and, in particular, by Russian troops that had not yet been withdrawn from Finland after gaining independence, and the mythology of the “liberation war” against Russia, which was supposed to replace a real civil war, although in reality the Russian troops did not carry any threat to Finnish independence, and all the help of the RSFSR to the Red Finns was reduced to secret arms transfers and ideological support.

          However, the most monstrous reprisal was committed by the “whites” in Vyborg. The Germans and Finnish nationalists who entered this multinational city (by 1918 out of 19 church buildings 11 belonged to the Russian Orthodox Church) carried out a full ethnic cleansing. They destroyed all those who could not speak Finnish: neutral soldiers of the Vyborg garrison, Russian workers, office workers and even gymnasium students. For several days, 3 thousand people were shot. A mockery of history: the Polish diaspora took to the streets to welcome the shame of the hated Russians, but was also shot: the Polish language was painfully reminiscent of Russian. According to the testimony of the Russian inhabitants of Finland, anti-Russian hysteria escalated in the newspapers: “On April 14, announcements of the alleged eviction of Russian citizens were pasted around the city ... Local newspapers showed extreme viciousness towards Russia and poured oats of mud on everything that was somehow was connected with the Russian name ... Russian citizens were forced to leave Finland as soon as possible not only with open repressions of the authorities, but also with a boycott, public insults, newspaper bullying and living conditions close to complete lawlessness. ” In April 1918, the Finns seized Russian state property for 17,5 billion gold rubles.

          "On March 15, 1918, General Mannerheim signed an order to
          the conquest of East Karelia by three Finnish invasion groups.
          Mannerheim approved the "Wallenius plan", i.e. plan to seize Russian territory
          along the Petsamo-Kola Peninsula-White Sea-Onega Lake-r.
          Svir-Ladoga Lake
          Mannerheim also put forward in connection with the outbreak of hostilities of the Finnish
          armed forces against Soviet Russia plan to eliminate Petrograd as
          the capital of Russia and the transformation of the city and surrounding area
          satellite cities (Tsarskoe Selo, Gatchina, Peterhof, etc.) in "free
          city-republic "like Danzig."

          More information at http://voprosik.net/genocid-russkix-v-finlyandii/ © QUESTION

          This is twenty years before the loss of 12 percent of the territory.
          Technically, there were no problems cutting 200 Finns, neither in 1940 nor in 1944. Honest lovers of the homeland of kindness did not appreciate, did not.
          1. The comment was deleted.
          2. Getoetet
            Getoetet 17 May 2016 20: 51
            +2
            Dear, dear! —That it was! —The jackals had to cut off everything that dangled in the year 44 and not conclude a truce! —Just go there and level everything with the ground! - (A resident of Petrozavodsk writes)
        4. Besterfeind
          Besterfeind 17 May 2016 20: 45
          +1
          The Finns lost 12% of their territory and will never forget it ...

          If they hadn’t attacked us at 18 and 21, no one would have declared war on them at 39m.
          Our villains did not forget, and as soon as the Finns began to drive tricks with the Germans, they realized where the breeze blew.
          Themselves to blame.
          But who now remembers this?
    3. Getoetet
      Getoetet 17 May 2016 20: 23
      +2
      In !!!! - this is the only clever thought-tirade-post which I read here !!! - violation of the contract with the Finnish in the year 44 - withdrawal from the war!
    4. The comment was deleted.
  • Hannibal Lecter
    Hannibal Lecter 17 May 2016 19: 26
    0
    Finland is not an Estonia or a company. No arms dealer lobby. The president is soft-bodied, comes down on any issue from any topic, what he does at his post, I personally do not know. Finns are divided into stupid and smart (like all people) stupid Russians do not like, smart people respect them 50 to 50. Surprisingly, those who went through the Finnish war always treat Russians with respect, and young people who do not smell gunpowder hate Russians for the war, receiving from the Russians such slap in the face incompatible with continued drinking. Businessmen will stand against the wall so that relations with Russia do not deteriorate. The balance of about 60% against joining NATO will be in a referendum.
  • Romin
    Romin 18 May 2016 01: 17
    0
    Yes, we don’t have to fight with our neighbors. We must interact economically, politically and culturally!
    I don't understand where our special envoy is and why everyone is being hanged on Lavrov, he is physically "not Figaro here Figaro there."
    I emphasize once again that it is necessary to conduct a systematic foreign policy work and dialogue with neighboring countries. Especially with countries outside the bloc status!
    Already, Putin has already made so many mistakes ... Well, stop playing the mysterious one already. It is necessary to communicate with people, to talk, to convince, to offer mutually beneficial partnerships and to emphasize losses in the event of that and that! And do it systematically !!!