Military Review

How "Frankenstein" is created from the educational system

102
Earlier this month, it became known that Russia increased the presence of its universities in the so-called TOP-100 world ranking "THE: World Reputation Ranking 2016". In addition to the remaining in the hundred best universities in the world according to the specialists responsible for the formation of this rating, Moscow State University and St. Petersburg State University, in the TOP-100 Moscow Institute of Physics and Technology (MIPT). Moscow State University has a 30 place, St. Petersburg has a group of universities from 81 to 90, and Moscow Physical and Technical Institute from 91 to 100.


The rating is based on a survey of approximately 10 thousand scientists from 133 countries of the world.

A statement from the editor-in-chief of the rating THE Phil Beyty Press Service of the Ministry of Education and Science of the Russian Federation:
As we said, when the previous rating was published, Russia would have to continue to work hard to withstand competition among global players, such as China, which also invests in higher education. In general, the presence of the third participant in the rating from Russia - MIPT - is excellent. news. Last year, only two Russian universities were present in the ranking, and before that, only one for many years. Reputation is the global currency of higher education. It may be subjective and not always fair, but it is important. This is the TOP-100 of the most prestigious universities - a small elite group, comprising only half a percent of the total number of world universities.


It would seem that after the increase in the number of Russian universities that fell in the TOP-100 of the above-mentioned rating, there is a reason to throw caps into the air, rejoicing in the growth of the quality of national education. And indeed - just yesterday, the very same 10 of thousands of scientists from 133 countries of the world, Russian universities, you understand, did not notice the emphasis, and now (wonderfully!) They allowed three of them to enter the “world's best one” at once. But only a person who is very far from the educational environment can afford to be happy about the "growth of quality" of national education. Indeed, it is one thing when some foreign scholars assign rating points to Russian universities, and another thing when dealing with the educational system every day and see for yourself what happened with this system in recent years.

So it happened, but this is another material on our informational and analytical portal, in which the problems of the educational environment are discussed, which is one of those environments for which at least some intelligible development program is missing. From television screens, officials from the Ministry of Education and Science almost daily talk about the “outstanding” results of the USE, that educational standards of the “new” generation are adopted in educational institutions (they are accepted, I must say, several times faster than, for example, airplanes of new generations ...), the constant increase in the level of mastering the so-called competencies of students and students. In general, you look from the outside - everything is almost perfect, but it is only what is called to dig ... it appears that the hair (if there is) on end ...

One of the “fashionable” trends in the education system is connected with the obvious desire of the Ministry of Education and Science to comply with the spirit of the times and to carry out large-scale optimization (well, this is what we usually call the process of “living off” people out of the system (in this case, educational)). Dismissing or reducing as if moveton, and therefore a new (amazing) system was born. It manifests itself most vividly in vocational education institutions (technical schools, colleges, lyceums) and rural schools.

One specific example.

Quite recently (on the basis of the next document of the new generation with old problems) the system of initial vocational training officially ceased to exist in Russia. In other words, numerous vocational schools and vocational schools disappeared, the abbreviations of which for modern youth (seeking to grab two or three diplomas of a manager, lawyer or specialist in God forgive me, consulting, then to sell bags or beer) sounded like something offensive. Like, whoever goes to these, excuse me, pigs, when even a person, instead of a mathematical record “X in a square” that draws a letter and draws a box around it, is able to get a diploma about the “tower”. And indeed, this diploma is obtained ...

So, vocational schools and vocational schools, designed to train those same workers in whom (the government already buzzed everything) our Russia needs, for the most part they ceased to exist and merged structurally eroded parts into technical schools, and even higher educational institutions ). According to the logic of the Ministry of Education, “enlarged” vocational schools with several educational levels appeared.
Here are just places these are sometimes so enlarged that in one such institution can be taught in completely incompatible specialties - from the welder to a specialist in tourism management. Although such a diverse profile is not the strangest. If there are specialists, then, as they say, for God's sake - even if the kids are learning.

Here are just the main snag in the experts. After all, the Ministry of Education and Science, embarking on this kind of enlargement, as already noted, clearly hoped to optimize the staff. Several educational institutions have merged - the recruitment plan has declined - and this means that the number of representatives of the engineering and teaching staff should decline. How did you decide to implement this procedure? But how: if Ivan Ivanovich, a hypothetical master of industrial training (a person teaching young children of the working profession) worked as a master technician, teaching, say, welding, grinding or turning on a lathe, years 15-20, then the Ministry of Education and Science now suddenly asks the question: Van Vanych, do you have any pedagogical education? After all, it is well, oh, how it is necessary for you to teach young children of welding, grinding or turning.

Van Vanych throws up his hands, because he really does not have pedagogical education, because earlier he could not have imagined that in order to teach children how to use a welding machine, he would need to finish a pedagogical university ... I thought skill, experience, everything, worked at the factory, he knows a lot about communicating with the guys ... Only now the main educational department of the country says to Ivan Ivanovich: stick your skills and experience far away, and the employer "take out and put!" a diploma of pedagogy, otherwise you will not correspond to the position held. Get the “crust” wherever you want! You can buy at least in the transition ... They said “it is necessary!”, It means that it is necessary ...

How "Frankenstein" is created from the educational system


And the fact that 3-4 was left for this average Van Wanych before retirement, and that he managed to prepare hundreds of qualified welders and machine-tool operators who work successfully at the largest industrial enterprises of Russia for his work in educating the workforce, this is the Ministry of Education and employers who have to dance under the tune of the "main leadership", do not care. I do not care that together with Van Vanych, the specialists with pedagogy, who were involved in the necessary educational processes, worked hand in hand, while Van Vanych, on duty, simply taught students to manage the metal and electrodes.

And most of these Van Vanyche raises his hand higher, spits away and says: “Yes, burn it with a blue flame. I’ll rather pick in my garage - beaten cars will go through - and then it will be. " And at this moment a “qualified” specialist, who has a diploma (certificate, coursework about pedagogical education), replaces the person who gave decades to the profession, and whose name is on dozens of letters and hundreds of lists of the best specialists in the city and region but she has no idea what the training of good hands is. As a result: a) the connection of generations is lost in the educational environment, b) the attempt to “optimize” leads to the loss of specialists with a capital letter, c) the level of absurdity increases, when people who are far from the essence of the process of training the workers required by the economy take places .

But in the reports of the Ministry of Education and Science everything is great - they all correspond to the positions they hold - everyone has the necessary diplomas, which today, if desired, can be purchased at any semi-legal online store, it is still not a single database of university graduates.

The very essence of the educational system is being thrown out - the interested work of responsible professionals for whom to teach a student or a student is not the same thing as filling a hundred papers about how he is going to do this, and then another hundred reports about how it did it ... The educational system acquires the features of some kind of "Frankenstein" assembled from fragments left over from the decayed Soviet model of education and dressed in western clothes under the sauce of total confusion with what result in general (to ohm paper) expects to receive the Ministry of Education and Science in the end.
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102 comments
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  1. Sasha75
    Sasha75 18 May 2016 06: 25
    +19
    Something like this )))
    1. Mangel olys
      Mangel olys 18 May 2016 06: 42
      +13
      It is not for nothing that people who have received a warped education are called "victims of the exam."
      1. jjj
        jjj 18 May 2016 09: 13
        0
        Quote: Mangel Alys
        It is not for nothing that people who have received a warped education are called "victims of the exam."

        They specifically talk about the Unified State Exam in order to "remove the state from control over the quality of education on the wave of popular will". That's when life starts merry
        1. PKK
          PKK 18 May 2016 19: 53
          +1
          Who wants to laugh, there’s a good YouTube video for this: A student at the Moscow Institute of Physics and Technology, don’t be too lazy to type. I don’t have any links. Without this stroke, I don’t understand academic education.
      2. My doctor
        My doctor 18 May 2016 09: 42
        +8
        Good day, dear forum users, it somehow develops that when reading articles I lose endurance and try to insert my five cents. I live in a country where vocational education is preserved, I can tell you one aspect that you certainly know, but not mentioned. This is a practice, a practice that students in schools go through. It is basic in mastering a specialty, and here it all depends on the place of practical training. Even students who practice at the same enterprise, but at different sites receive completely different skills at the exit. It all depends on the ability to attract a student to professional work. As an example, at the assembly site of the kid, they’ll not be allowed to the height where the main work is going on, they will leave him at the bottom where his broom is waiting. In another embodiment, if he gets to the construction production workshop, he will hold both electrode and semi-automatic holders in his hands, not to mention grinders, and will also be allowed to access some metal-working machines. So vocational schools themselves do not have much impact without practice.
        and now about the masters of industrial training.
        M. p. - main teacher of the profession and educator of future workers. His chap. the task is to provide training for people. of competitive workers with profound prof. knowledge and skills that can apply them creatively and master new equipment and technology. ....
        DOS the complexity of the formation of M. p. like a ped. employee - the ability to combine high prof. qualification with the qualities of a teacher. Knowledge, productions. and life experience is able to convey to pupils only a true professional, an enthusiast of his craft, who is respected by young people and is an example for students to follow. Prof. knowledge and skills M. p. are not limited to programs. In practical The work is implemented by his personality and prof. quality, ped., tech., scientific. horizon.
        And with all due respect to the people of this profession, but it is noticeable that they lack authority. If the ongoing changes can correct the situation, then the masters of training will only make life easier.
        1. alicante11
          alicante11 18 May 2016 13: 30
          +3
          And with all due respect to the people of this profession, but it is noticeable that they lack authority


          You just haven't seen reputable IGOs. Here at our school there was a master - Nikolai Ivanovich, so he constantly walked with a whip with a wire with weights-nuts. Someone will start to ram in the lesson, walk by and "bite" on the workbench nearby, it was already breathtaking. And one kid from our class even got in the ass. Deserved, so the mother also came to apologize for the "child". True, it was back in the early 90s. But you should have seen the difference between the way a former machinist-instructor conducts a lesson, who, in two words - a mate, but at the same time, knowledge - a carriage with a trolley, and how a girl-teacher of general subjects with pedagogy leads the lesson. The boys catch every word from the driver, and on the topic and stories from life, and even jokes do not distract them for a long time from the lesson, I myself do not manage to keep the class. And the "girl" is not sent straight in the classroom without hesitation.
          1. CHILD
            CHILD 18 May 2016 23: 45
            +1
            and our Trudovik was a well-deserved boxing trainer .... we brought him to white-hot ...))) ... he was a great man !!!
        2. gladcu2
          gladcu2 20 May 2016 04: 19
          0
          My doctor

          It doesn’t matter that the young one will not be given professional work, it is important that he looked from the side like and what.

          But practice and the mentoring system of course this is the educational system.
      3. Goldmitro
        Goldmitro 19 May 2016 18: 20
        0
        Quote: Mangel Alys
        It is not for nothing that people who have received a warped education are called "victims of the exam."

        For the umpteenth time I click on the plus, and some nimble spotter puts a minus! What does this mean, who is doing this and where are the moderators looking?
    2. The comment was deleted.
    3. siberalt
      siberalt 18 May 2016 09: 44
      +13
      It seems that the truth is being said that cadres for the Ministry of Education and Science are previously agreed with the US ambassador.
  2. c3r
    c3r 18 May 2016 06: 32
    +26
    Damn, well, is it really not visible up there what this rat-Livanov is doing? When will this mockery of education end, what does he want to come up with these endless reorganizations. when they’ll remove all liberalists from the government, who only do what they look to the west!
    1. Gardamir
      Gardamir 18 May 2016 06: 58
      +14
      what does this ***** - Livanov do.
      I’ll go and probably work as a minister. Anyway, no one controls who works there, what he does.
    2. PHANTOM-AS
      PHANTOM-AS 18 May 2016 09: 13
      +14
      Quote: c3r
      Damn, well, is it really not visible up there what this rat-Livanov is doing.

      Born in Moscow on February 15, 1967 in the family of MATI student Viktor Livanov - subsequently, since December 1995, the Director General of the Aviation Complex named after S.V. Ilyushin. Spouse of the father (not the mother of Dmitry Livanov) - Filippova (Rogozina) Tatyana Olegovna, was born on January 24, 1953 in the city of Chkalov, Doctor of Economics, President of Titan-Aero Airlines, is the sister of Deputy Prime Minister of the Russian Federation Dmitry Rogozin [2] . Dmitry Livanov’s sister - Daria Viktorovna, born in 1975, graduated from the journalism faculty of Moscow State University [3].
      In 1990, he graduated with honors from the Physics and Chemistry Department of the Moscow Institute of Steel and Alloys with a degree in Metal Physics.

      In 1990-1992, he studied in full-time postgraduate studies at MISiS, while working abroad on an experience exchange program [4]
      In 2003 he graduated from the Moscow State Law Academy with a degree in jurisprudence.
      ---------

      What do you want from this person if he is not originally a teacher?
      He was appointed to this position to carry out certain tasks (possibly on the collapse of education)
      If you substantively analyze which of the ministers in the government of the Russian Federation has a specialized education, I’m not talking about work experience, then there are practically none.
      All questions should be asked to the prime minister and his immediate superior, the president.
      And the president satisfies the work of the government.
      Point.
      1. Koshel2901
        Koshel2901 18 May 2016 09: 42
        +5
        Oh how! Communication Livanov-Rogozin! Very interesting!
        1. PHANTOM-AS
          PHANTOM-AS 18 May 2016 09: 50
          +8
          Quote: Koshel2901
          Oh how! Communication Livanov-Rogozin! Very interesting!

          If you dig deeper, there is generally one "family".
          Nepotism, however.
      2. sherp2015
        sherp2015 18 May 2016 10: 17
        +5
        Quote: PHANTOM-AS
        PHANTOM-AS (3) Today, 09:13 ↑ New
        Quote: c3r
        Damn, well, is it really not visible up there what this rat-Livanov is doing.
        Born in Moscow on February 15, 1967 in the family of MATI student Viktor Livanov - subsequently, since December 1995, the Director General of the Aviation Complex named after S.V. Ilyushin. Spouse of the father (not the mother of Dmitry Livanov) - Filippova (Rogozina) Tatyana Olegovna, was born on January 24, 1953 in the city of Chkalov, Doctor of Economics, President of Titan-Aero Airlines, is the sister of Deputy Prime Minister of the Russian Federation Dmitry Rogozin [2] . Dmitry Livanov’s sister - Daria Viktorovna, born in 1975, graduated from the journalism faculty of Moscow State University [3].
        In 1990, he graduated with honors from the Physics and Chemistry Department of the Moscow Institute of Steel and Alloys with a degree in Metal Physics.

        In 1990-1992, he studied in full-time postgraduate studies at MISiS, while working abroad on an experience exchange program [4]
        In 2003 he graduated from the Moscow State Law Academy with a degree in jurisprudence.
        ---------

        What do you want from this person if he is not originally a teacher?
        He was appointed to this position to carry out certain tasks (possibly on the collapse of education)
        If you substantively analyze which of the ministers in the government of the Russian Federation has a specialized education, I’m not talking about work experience, then there are practically none.
        All questions should be asked to the prime minister and his immediate superior, the president.
        And the president satisfies the work of the government.


        ))
        Here you have the clans ... Ragozinsky and others
      3. Rivares
        Rivares 19 May 2016 02: 35
        +1
        Quote: PHANTOM-AS
        In 1990-1992, he studied in full-time postgraduate studies at MISiS, while working abroad on an experience exchange program [4]

        there he was recruited))
      4. gladcu2
        gladcu2 20 May 2016 04: 25
        +1
        PHANTOM

        Actually, you don’t need to be a teacher, in the education system, it’s enough to be a scholar and understand what needs to be done.

        After all, there was an example of the Soviet system, it is so simple to trace the goals that were set.

        The goal of the education system is the goal of standardization. And standardization creates a quick opportunity for retraining. This is the type of versatility that is needed for flexible production. Adaptations to the influence of needs in the labor market.
    3. sherp2015
      sherp2015 18 May 2016 10: 15
      +4
      Quote: c3r
      Damn, well, is it really not visible up there what this rat-Livanov is doing? When will this mockery of education end, what does he want to come up with these endless reorganizations. when they’ll remove all liberalists from the government, who only do what they look to the west!

      If only the Lebanese ...
  3. Leto
    Leto 18 May 2016 06: 35
    -9
    he could not have imagined that in order to teach children how to use a welding machine, he would need to graduate from a pedagogical university ...

    As far as I know, they have a pedagogical education, not higher, but they do. But this is not important. Our secondary technical education is not just collapsed, it is terribly outdated and incapable of producing specialists for modern production. Those "Ivan Ivanyches" who have three years left before retirement can only train a specialist of the late 20th century.
    1. Volodin
      18 May 2016 06: 45
      +26
      In vocational schools and technical colleges, until recently, a master of industrial education (a master-teacher teaching precisely professional skills) did not have to have pedagogical education - the priority was the presence of vocational education in the profession that he teaches children. Now, each inspection commission digs for a diploma and about education, and about education in a particular profession. Ideally, the hypothetical Van Vanych should have a pedagogical plus technical universities behind him, and also experience in both specialties ... Utopia, and even simpler - marasmus.
      1. Alexander Romanov
        Alexander Romanov 18 May 2016 08: 16
        +9
        Quote: Volodin
        . Now each inspection commission digs for the presence of a diploma both on pedagogical education and on education in a particular profession. Ideally, the hypothetical Van Vanych should have a pedagogical plus technical universities behind him, plus experience working in both specialties ...

        Aleksey, on the basis of this, every officer in the army who trains a soldier must have a teacher’s diploma. wassat
      2. alicante11
        alicante11 18 May 2016 13: 34
        -1
        Ideally, the hypothetical Van Vanych should have a pedagogical plus technical universities behind him, plus experience in both specialties ... Utopia, or even easier - insanity.


        Insanity, just do not confuse IGOs ​​with teachers? In our institutes, IGOs ​​do not even have higher technical education, and you want higher pedagogical education. Us teachers are being persecuted. Although so far, those who refuse to receive pedagogical education have not been suspended from classes.
        In general, the problem there is minimal - 600-hour refresher courses and you have pedagogy.
        1. Volodin
          18 May 2016 15: 46
          +4
          Quote: alicante11
          and you want higher pedagogical

          I or the Ministry of Education?

          Quote: alicante11
          In general, the problem there is minimal - 600-hour refresher courses and you have pedagogy.


          So about that and the speech that a person who has worked as an MPO for 20 years (I don’t confuse with teachers, although there is enough insanity), the Ministry of Education now proposes either to enter the Pedagogical Institute, or to take some ridiculous courses. The first is impracticable, the second - for a tick and pulling money, for courses are paid.
    2. pv1005
      pv1005 18 May 2016 07: 08
      +13
      Quote: Leto
      he could not have imagined that in order to teach children how to use a welding machine, he would need to graduate from a pedagogical university ...

      As far as I know, they have a pedagogical education, not higher, but they do. But this is not important. Our secondary technical education is not just collapsed, it is terribly outdated and incapable of producing specialists for modern production. Those "Ivan Ivanyches" who have three years left before retirement can only train a specialist of the late 20th century.

      And who can be prepared by the "victim of the exam"? Yes, only the "sacrifice of the exam" in the square of the sample of the 21st century.
    3. Corporal Valera
      Corporal Valera 18 May 2016 07: 27
      +15
      Quote: Leto
      can prepare a specialist only a sample of the late 20th century.

      Now the hunt for such specialists is underway. But the "specialists" of the 21st century cause, to put it mildly, bewilderment
      1. PHANTOM-AS
        PHANTOM-AS 18 May 2016 09: 19
        +7
        Quote: Corporal Valera
        here the "experts" of the 21st century cause, to put it mildly, bewilderment

        "Specialists" of the 21st century in our government work hard. angry
      2. Leto
        Leto 18 May 2016 10: 10
        -2
        Quote: Corporal Valera
        Now for such specialists the real hunt is on.

        Because they are easier to retrain.
        Quote: Corporal Valera
        But the "specialists" of the 21st century cause, to put it mildly, bewilderment

        Because the level of their training is low and there is no experience in the production of anything. But then again, the hunt for personnel of the 20th century goes because there is no better, and not because they are a priori the best.
        Example. A friend of mine was the director of one enterprise, they had modern German equipment for the production of cutting tools with high tolerances. Rather, they were engaged in the restoration of the cutting tool. According to him, the personnel question was basic, but even those best whom he found could not use all the equipment’s capabilities to 100%, it was necessary to organize the training of some employees in Germany. Those. the level of training of workers was so low that it was impossible to train them on the spot.
        1. alicante11
          alicante11 18 May 2016 13: 38
          +4
          According to him, the personnel question was basic, but even those best whom he found could not use all the capabilities of the equipment at 100%, it was necessary to organize the training of some employees in Germany.


          C'mon, what do you put any German with a technical background to that machine? They generally have terrible specialization there. We can even retrain ours, because the outlook has been instilled in a broad one.

          Those. the level of training of the workers was so low that it was impossible to train them locally.


          Yes, it’s just cheaper to send two or three people to Germany than to bring in masters from Germany who will teach here. Do you feel the logic? What difference does it make where to teach, if a person is not a student, it is not with us, you cannot teach him in Germany.
    4. aba
      aba 18 May 2016 08: 45
      +7
      Those "Ivan Ivanyches" who have three years left before retirement can only train a specialist of the late 20th century.

      This Ivan Ivanovich will at least prepare SPECIALISTS at the level of the 20th century, and who will prepare the newly-made effective managers?
      1. sherp2015
        sherp2015 18 May 2016 10: 19
        +4
        Quote: aba
        and who will prepare the newly made effective managers?


        Only "effective managers"
      2. bastard
        bastard 18 May 2016 21: 32
        +2
        Quote: aba
        This Ivan Ivanovich will at least prepare SPECIALISTS at the level of the 20th century, and who will prepare the newly-made effective managers?

        I work in a sharashka type LLC + IP, 2 bosses (one is quite adequate), 3 turners + 1 milling machine operator, we can combine professions like a welder, a locksmith, etc.
        Of the turners: the eldest is 58, I am 50 and the "smallest" one (not in size) is 38. Young people do not go into these professions, there is no one to train.
        There was a case at the previous work, the guy came after the army, like I want to become a turner, they say, cool, they say. Two splinters, a finger about sharpened, cut into chips and left a manager in a mobile phone salon. All!
        I told him about the sine tangents, peripheral speeds, the physics of the process, and he answered me, like, what and tut? I'm tired of school.
        A generation of managers has been brought up, you can’t train them. And in order to become a machinist, it’s necessary to work around 5-7 years.
        1. St_tov
          St_tov 19 May 2016 23: 09
          0
          At the wife in the clinic, the installation on the table stands - grinds the crowns. But, in principle, anything can. It looks like this - a sample is placed on a stand, such as a rotating tray in a microwave, it spins for a couple of minutes, runs around it, scanning a laser beam. Voila, a dozen minutes later, the finished product from a sufficiently hard alloy is machined from the parallelepiped. The cross of the work of Yuri Fedorov was copied in such a way that only the absence of gilding allows us to determine the original. Well, where is the place of the machinist? At exhibitions, installations with a workpiece size of up to 1200 mm x 1200 x 2500 are demonstrated.
    5. Corsair
      Corsair 18 May 2016 09: 10
      +7
      Quote: Leto
      Those "Ivan Ivanyches" who have three years left before retirement can only train a specialist of the late 20th century.

      You want to say that technology has come a long way?
      Could welding techniques have changed a lot? I haven’t noticed any significant changes, somewhere more automation may have appeared, but this should be followed up by the management and conducted appropriate retraining courses for the teaching staff. Then the same Van Vanych will be in the know about new units.
      And then of course they are outdated ... they only cook with electric current and electrodes all over the world, and the CNC machines as they were.
      1. Leto
        Leto 18 May 2016 09: 44
        +1
        Quote: Corsair
        You want to say that technology has come a long way?
        Could welding techniques have changed a lot?

        Three years ago (as far as I can remember) from Russia sent the best graduates to an international competition of professions (I do not remember the name exactly, it is held between graduates of secondary special educational institutions). I don’t remember the full list of professions, but we definitely had a builder and a welder from us. They took all the last places, according to the official, the main reason was not crooked hands (everything is in order with hands), and the inability to use a modern tool, they often did not even know which way to approach it. The official complained that in Russian vocational schools, the training base was outdated in the last century.
        1. alicante11
          alicante11 18 May 2016 13: 44
          +1
          according to the official, the main reason is not crooked hands (everything is in order with hands), but inability to use a modern tool


          This official would better explain why in the secondary specialized educational institution there is such old stuff in workshops and classrooms? How to train specialists? Give me the Ermak simulator, I will teach the boys how to drive the Ermak train. And if there is a VL-80, then I don't twist, I won't show them Ermak. And for diesel locomotives in general - junk - control panel and brakes from TEM-2 yuber ales. In Soviet times, at first a technician appeared in a technician, and then on the road, and now ... we are teaching everything on the same, which we came to in 2000. The little that we managed to get out of the new one is taken by correspondence students for their theses with practical application. But for such things they can be imprisoned in our days.
      2. Leto
        Leto 18 May 2016 09: 54
        -2
        Quote: Corsair
        You want to say that technology has come a long way?

        Let's compare. Here is the modern production of the MC-21 medium-range aircraft. Rather, the wing at the Aerocomposite-Ulyanovsk plant



        But the production of the Su-34 antediluvian plazo-template method from which the world has long been abandoned.

        1. Corsair
          Corsair 18 May 2016 11: 59
          +3
          Quote: Leto
          Let's compare. Here is the modern production of the MC-21 medium-range aircraft. Rather, the wing at the Aerocomposite-Ulyanovsk plant

          So I wrote to you about the teaching staff, so that Van Vanych kept pace with the times, this is called advanced training, well, I don’t see any sense in the trips of our specialists to any international competitions, everyone has their own units and methods.
          And it turns out we go out to play in a foreign field by the rules of others.
          As for equipment - this is our huge failure in development and the targeted destruction of industry as such by the hands of oligarchs and mishandled Cossacks in the 90s, other countries need consumers and buyers, not competitors. Therefore, the Americans also forbid everyone to sell high-precision machine tools and complexes to Russia.
          1. Leto
            Leto 18 May 2016 13: 09
            -2
            Quote: Corsair
            Therefore, the Americans also forbid everyone to sell high-precision machine tools and complexes to Russia.

            Before the imposition of sanctions, there were no restrictions. The aerocomposite is a vivid example of this; it is the most modern complex for the production of first-level elements (wings and tail) from composite materials. The most advanced technology for transferring the formation of plastics using VaRTM vacuum reduces production costs compared to an autoclave and prepreg, but if Boeing using VaRTM produces only second-level elements, then we have the FIRST in the world to make whole wings using VaRTM. Neither Boeing nor Airbus makes wings using the VaRTM method.
            But you need to understand that the technology and equipment are not domestic, but purchased from the Austrian company FACC before the sanctions, the United States could not influence the contract in any way. And this is not the only case.
            1. Corsair
              Corsair 18 May 2016 14: 03
              +1
              Quote: Leto
              But you need to understand that the technology and equipment are not domestic, but purchased from the Austrian company FACC before the sanctions, the United States could not influence the contract in any way. And this is not the only case.

              Well, it’s still more of an exception to the rule, somewhere they lost sight of something or the amount of the transaction passed sanctions.
              In general, sanctions have always been, just called differently, the Jackson-Venik law, then the COMOM lists. After the perestroika, it was necessary under a plausible pretext (to buy up the shares of our factories, etc. to entice Russia to the WTO) - they made small concessions, such as the Waseanar agreement, according to which, however, each country decides whether it is possible to sell this or that equipment to other countries, but we know who they have up there.
              The Cold War did not end, but gradually flowed into a different state with trade wars and local conflicts in different regions of the planet.
              1. Leto
                Leto 18 May 2016 15: 41
                -1
                Quote: Corsair
                In general, sanctions have always been, just called differently, the Jackson-Venik law, then the COMOM lists.

                Remember the pancake. And not COMOM, but COCOM. After 1991 there were no restrictions, the same Broom was frozen and you could buy anything, just pay the money, but with that it was tight. Until certain times, it was then that they began to spend. Sukhoi factories in Komsomolsk and Irkutsk were reequipped, the production line for the production of thermal imagers from Thales Optronics was bought with a license, but they managed to buy a lot of things. Well, there was much more that could be up to a point. Now, yes, only for a citizen and then with an eye on it.
            2. ingineer
              ingineer April 2 2018 00: 23
              0
              Quote: Leto
              But you need to understand that the technology and equipment are not domestic

              And they will never become domestic unless they are bought from domestic companies. We produce such equipment - and where are the customers?
        2. iouris
          iouris 18 May 2016 15: 40
          +1
          Of course, we must start with the production of machine tools and equipment.
          At the Irkutsk plant, in the production of the MiG-27, equipment was taken out from Germany for reparations. Perhaps it still works.
        3. Andrey Skokovsky
          Andrey Skokovsky 19 May 2016 10: 33
          0
          buddy you are on the battlefield a bullet hole in this nano-wing how are you going to close up?
          still can remind you xnumx of the moment
          1) Russia has the best combat aircraft models in the world today
          2) the future t-50 will be just the way you like it better, you can be proud of it ...
    6. PHANTOM-AS
      PHANTOM-AS 18 May 2016 09: 17
      0
      Quote: Leto
      Those "Ivan Ivanyches" who have three years left before retirement can only train a specialist of the late 20th century.

      There are still no others. sad
  4. Reptiloid
    Reptiloid 18 May 2016 06: 55
    +2
    Well, how many words were from the stands about the revival of vocational education ....
    But interestingly, in other countries, in China, for example, they teach workers specialties?
    1. kebeskin
      kebeskin 18 May 2016 08: 50
      +14
      A girl friend studied and worked in China. There is such a difference.
      Russia - 3 year (technical specialties) - Look for a summer practice yourself. And if you are lucky or agree. That will be a specialty, something to do.
      Well, professional training depends on the ability to scurry around the student himself.

      China - Half a day studying at a university, the rest of the time you work in a laboratory to research something, or to produce something. And there it is from the early courses. As a result, by the end of training there, a more or less advanced specialist comes out.

      Unfortunately, the facts are not in our favor; we must drive the Minister of Education far.
      1. sherp2015
        sherp2015 18 May 2016 10: 22
        +5
        Quote: kebeskin
        Unfortunately, the facts are not in our favor; we must drive the Minister of Education far.

        The whole government must be driven along with the 95% Duma
        1. Reptiloid
          Reptiloid 18 May 2016 12: 04
          0
          Regarding how to change one from another. I read somewhere such a joke:
          Every day, patients of a psycho hospital change their socks: the right is changed with the left.
          Also, they change their underpants daily: they take off, turn it inside out and put it on again.
        2. ksan
          ksan 18 May 2016 21: 55
          +2
          The whole government must be driven along with the 95% Duma
          You will all be surprised but the United Russia party will win again, headed by Medvedev, who is also the prime minister of this "economically impotent" government. THEM (EP) have an advanced electoral campaign. They attract "popular" people, and the Communists, the SR and the Liberal Democratic Party and other "patriots" that look vaguely against THEIR background. So I'm afraid WE will endure this "reformism" for another 5 years, there Kudrin is already catching up with his team, and the "Guarantor" likes the government, it seems like HIM alone, but you have a high "rating", so this is, if I may say so, the government and EP will still steer for at least 5 years, if there are no riots fellow
  5. rotmistr60
    rotmistr60 18 May 2016 07: 01
    +13
    Personally, I am only revolted by this one thing - why the president, whom I have been trusting for so many years, still cannot say his weighty word about Russian education. Why am I talking about the president, because in our country, until the president pays his attention to something, the official (minister) will not even scratch himself. How many years there is a conversation about the systematic collapse of education in Russia. The sense is zero. Moreover, ministers of education are not only people who are not happy about this, but direct enemies of Russian education. In a word, a complete paragraph.
    1. Mordvin 3
      Mordvin 3 18 May 2016 07: 50
      +15
      Quote: rotmistr60
      in our country, until the president draws his attention to something, the official (minister) will not even scratch his face.

      The president himself built this vertical.
    2. Alex66
      Alex66 18 May 2016 07: 58
      +13
      The question was asked the right one. And the answer is that the president does not defend the interests of the whole people of Russia, but some part of it. At the same time, interests coincide in foreign policy and we are simply delighted with his actions, but we don’t like domestic politics, but no one asks us because not our interests are protected.
      1. PHANTOM-AS
        PHANTOM-AS 18 May 2016 09: 33
        +3
        Quote: Alex66
        . At the same time, interests coincide in foreign policy and we are simply delighted with his actions,

        Share your enthusiasm, you are our impressionable.
        1. ksan
          ksan 18 May 2016 22: 26
          0
          PHANTOM-AS (3) RU Today, 09:33 ↑ New
          Quote: Alex66
          . At the same time, interests coincide in foreign policy and we are simply delighted with his actions,
          Share your enthusiasm, you are our impressionable.
          Well, in vain you are respected wink Putin is a hammer in foreign policy laughing But with the economy of the problem, the Liberators rule almost everywhere, I'm afraid that apart from popular protests, such as today's in France, they are not "moved". The communists, the SR, the Liberal Democratic Party and other "patriots" are too amorphous, but they do not present their commands or their programs persistently, so only sluggish discontent. wink
      2. Koshel2901
        Koshel2901 18 May 2016 09: 45
        +6
        But is it time to change the president? Only a big question for whom?
        1. PHANTOM-AS
          PHANTOM-AS 18 May 2016 10: 00
          +2
          Quote: Koshel2901
          But is it time to change the president?

          Ага.
          Quote: Koshel2901
          Only a big question for whom?

          In the Russian Federation, 146 million lives. and the current PR technologies from any, roughly speaking, lieutenant colonel of the president are blinded in 3 months, with the necessary unsullied biography and purposeful gaze.

          But in fact, I would suggest Pavel Grudinin.
          1. PHANTOM-AS
            PHANTOM-AS 18 May 2016 11: 07
            +1
            Quote: PHANTOM-AS
            But in fact, I would suggest Pavel Grudinin.

          2. ksan
            ksan 18 May 2016 22: 29
            0

            But in fact, I would suggest Pavel Grudinin.
            WE already had ONE Collective Farmer, also with a "biography" and a "burning gaze". Have you forgotten how it ended? laughing
            1. PHANTOM-AS
              PHANTOM-AS 18 May 2016 22: 41
              0
              Quote: ksan
              WE already had ONE Collective Farmer, also with a "biography" and a "burning gaze". Have you forgotten how it ended?

              You look at this man, I think that today he is worthy of many in power.
              Yes, and in Belarus, the former chairman.
              Well, I definitely don’t have the current one.
            2. Cat man null
              Cat man null 18 May 2016 22: 51
              0
              Quote: ksan = PHANTOM-AS
              But in fact, I would suggest Pavel Grudinin

              PHANTOM-AS .. female dog .. get out of the emergency, a sneaky coward laughing
      3. sherp2015
        sherp2015 18 May 2016 10: 25
        +4
        Quote: Alex66
        The question was asked the right one. And the answer is that the president does not defend the interests of the whole people of Russia, but some part of it.


        What system is built in Russia by the Kremlin? Feudal or slaveholding?
        Ordinary people will work for land owners and private enterprises as slaves?
        Right now, government slogans will pour minuses to me)))))
    3. sa-ag
      sa-ag 18 May 2016 08: 11
      +9
      Quote: rotmistr60
      Personally, I am only revolted by this one thing - why the president, whom I have been trusting for so many years, still cannot say his weighty word about Russian education.

      He - this is the most "weighty word" he said a long time ago, and it sounded like this - "there will be no return to the past" (C), what are you still waiting for?
    4. Gardamir
      Gardamir 18 May 2016 09: 08
      +7
      why is the president whom I trust so many years
      Either we have different presidents or you are mildly stupid. First, give yourself the answer to the question that you asked.
      Tell me how I should relate to a person who constantly declares his adherence to liberalism, everyone knows his words "Russia is doomed to liberalism". It was he who said that only a foolish person thinks that Russia is for Russians. It was under him and not under Yeltsin that a bunch of enterprises were closed, it is enough to recall AZLK, although the former VAZ now belongs to the Renault-Nissan group. It was he who "peacefully" annexed Crimea, paying with thousands of lives of the inhabitants of Donbass. Or now, after so much time, someone will tell me that we cannot enter the Russian lands of Little Russia, but we can bomb Novosiria. A person whose decrees are not carried out, in whose reign, for show people steal and thieves are not punished.
      Why do you trust him? After all, it was with him that Gorbachev was awarded, because it was he who erected a monument to the destroyer of the country, and then he built an E-center with national money.
      1. Alexander Romanov
        Alexander Romanov 18 May 2016 09: 18
        -8
        Quote: Gardamir
        It was he who "peacefully" annexed Crimea, having paid with thousands of lives of the inhabitants of Donbass.

        The State Department also claims that Putin is to blame.
        How much is the State Department paying for such comments?
        1. Gardamir
          Gardamir 18 May 2016 09: 46
          +9
          How much is the State Department paying for such comments?
          So you registered a year earlier than me. When I came to this site were already a moderator and marshal. I think that the duties of the moderator include not only punishing those who are objectionable, but also watching who breathes on the site with what. Why is this your comment for the sake of a plus sign?
          When I was still born, Khrushchev ruled, then there was Brezhnev. Then Andropov, Chernenko, Gorbachev, Yeltsin, Putin, Medvedev and Putin again. Many of them are not, but my homeland exists.
          For me, my Motherland, my Russia, is important. For you, that is one of many. That’s the whole difference between us.
      2. 406ppm2gv
        406ppm2gv 18 May 2016 11: 58
        +1
        In my opinion, you forgot to say about the withdrawal of at least 100 billion greens from the country every year. And there are no countermeasures by the authorities. Apparently this is very beneficial for someone. I would like to ask the comrades from Israel how they are withdrawing billions from the country?
    5. Corsair
      Corsair 18 May 2016 09: 14
      +9
      Quote: rotmistr60
      Personally, I am only revolted by this one thing - why the president, whom I have been trusting for so many years, still cannot say his weighty word about Russian education.

      laughing All elementary Watson! The country does not need smart and literate people, because smart and literate people start to think to ask uncomfortable questions, then trade unions begin to create non-manual ones.
      1. AlexSK
        AlexSK 18 May 2016 10: 40
        +6
        Quote: Corsair
        The country does not need smart and literate people, because smart and literate begin to think

        Here is an excerpt about American education, but it is completely true to our modern one. As they say one to one. The economic and political system are essentially the same.
        1. iouris
          iouris 18 May 2016 15: 42
          +1
          By the way, Arnold wrote that this is a global trend and that "backward" education in the USSR and the Russian Federation in the 1990s had not yet had time to degrade to the level of American (USA) and French. And he was an adviser to the French minister.
    6. PHANTOM-AS
      PHANTOM-AS 18 May 2016 09: 29
      +8
      Quote: rotmistr60
      Personally, only one thing revolts me about this - why is the president whom I have been trusting for so many years

      To no avail.
      Quote: rotmistr60
      still can not say his weighty word about Russian education.

      And also can not say about medicine, economic policy, etc.
      Yesterday I encountered a situation in medicine after optimization.
      It was necessary to show Batu to a neuropathologist.
      At the local clinic, the neurologist was reduced, now the visiting neuropathologist accepts
      only on Tuesdays, for three hours !!!

      Recording is possible only from July 21 of this year
      The call to the regional health department was answered: "in case of emergency, call an ambulance or contact your local therapist."
      So dear colleagues, nobody is going to teach or treat us.
      Thank you mister president sad
    7. ksan
      ksan 18 May 2016 22: 17
      0
      rotmistr60 (4) SU Today, 07: 01 New
      Personally, I am only revolted by this one thing - why the president, whom I have been trusting for so many years, still cannot say his weighty word about Russian education
      What's the point? HE spoke, spoke about the ONE history textbook for schoolchildren and what ?? One feature 5 different textbooks, but what about the PERSONALITY and each of this liberal PERSONALITY has its own vision of history. It's not so LIBERAL - ONE HISTORY TEXTBOOK. And the fact that children have a mess in their heads is just LIBERAL, this is PLURALISM OF OPINIONS here is the instruction of the "Guarantor". With all due respect to the personality of the President, HIM's economic "team" is shit, and he has no other. The only hope is that these "reformers" will finally screw up and the Duma will dismiss him and create a coalition government by analogy with the Primakov government, but in this situation in the Duma this will not happen. True, if the Liberators screw up so much that the "ratings" of the "Supreme" go down and he himself will get rid of THEM fellow
  6. Averias
    Averias 18 May 2016 07: 44
    +13
    So much has already been said on this topic, so I won’t spread it. I will give you such an example, from personal observations. I don’t know how things are with vocational schools throughout the country (I don’t have information), but in Tyumen (I also made inquiries in Nizhnevartovsk) nobody closed anything. Not only that, there still can’t get into the vocational school. From those who wish, there is no end. About schools and what and how they teach. Here yes, obscurantism is enough. But then again (by personal example), the girlfriend has a son, not a child prodigy but not a fool. Studying in the 7th grade in a regular school, studying well, constantly participating in all kinds of competitions. He goes to a couple of circles and to the pool. Along the way (not without my help) I mastered (for my Wishlist) 3D Max, Photoshop, Unity. He is actively interested in physics (with a bias on the fundamental), though so far he only asks questions and does not understand anything. I became interested in system administration, I help to understand network nuances. At the same time, he walks with friends, plays in the computer, and so on, and the girl just drew herself the other day. He is not the only one (suddenly someone had the impression), they have the whole class like that. Someone more and someone less. I went with him to the Kremlin Christmas tree (awarded for the Olympics), so from the Tyumen region a huge number of such children. Something like that.
    1. Muvka
      Muvka 18 May 2016 08: 18
      0
      Quote: Averias
      So much has already been said on this topic, so I won’t spread it. I will give you such an example, from personal observations. I don’t know how things are with vocational schools throughout the country (I don’t have information), but in Tyumen (I also made inquiries in Nizhnevartovsk) nobody closed anything. Not only that, there still can’t get into the vocational school. From those who wish, there is no end. About schools and what and how they teach. Here yes, obscurantism is enough. But then again (by personal example), the girlfriend has a son, not a child prodigy but not a fool. Studying in the 7th grade in a regular school, studying well, constantly participating in all kinds of competitions. He goes to a couple of circles and to the pool. Along the way (not without my help) I mastered (for my Wishlist) 3D Max, Photoshop, Unity. He is actively interested in physics (with a bias on the fundamental), though so far he only asks questions and does not understand anything. I became interested in system administration, I help to understand network nuances. At the same time, he walks with friends, plays in the computer, and so on, and the girl just drew herself the other day. He is not the only one (suddenly someone had the impression), they have the whole class like that. Someone more and someone less. I went with him to the Kremlin Christmas tree (awarded for the Olympics), so from the Tyumen region a huge number of such children. Something like that.

      At least one adequate comment. I have not read the article, but I suspect that it is the same as a dozen other similar articles earlier. Simply, when something is closed in Moscow or St. Petersburg, it is perceived as "everything is lost." And the fact that in addition to these two cities there is a whole country is not remembered. So, in this country everything is more or less normal.
      1. Verdun
        Verdun 18 May 2016 17: 31
        +2
        At least one adequate comment.
        It’s not only about vocational schools that close and open in large cities. At the same time, Tyumen, with its demand by specialists in the oil industry, also cannot be a criterion. In Mirny, where the main production of Russian diamonds is concentrated, there are no special problems with the training of personnel. But try to find a trained turner or fitter for serious production. Or a normal, skilled agronomist. Or a teacher who can give your child a decent education. At the same time, you will not eat oil with diamonds, but you want the rockets to fly as they should, and the planes, if possible, not to fall, and the children grow up educated.
    2. CONTROL
      CONTROL 18 May 2016 08: 57
      +4
      Quote: Averias
      I went with him to the Kremlin Christmas tree (awarded for the Olympics),

      I was there too - with my granddaughter; also awarded for the Olympics.
      An interesting observation - there were a lot of winners of all kinds of Olympiads, competitions, and other things - in schools, gymnasiums ... You think to yourself - the requirements have decreased; you watch the programs of these olympiads - yes, the requirements and complexity have not fallen much (compared to our times). But the level of well, if not knowledge (according to first impressions) - then awareness, then yes! has grown ... the Internet? ...
      But - and the desire to learn, to learn (from a decent part of youth) has not died away! or maybe even grown ...
      1. jjj
        jjj 18 May 2016 09: 26
        +1
        The granddaughter took part in the finals of the Our Heritage Olympiad in Moscow. There were teams from capitals, but most of them from peripheral cities. Gathered smart smart guys. I was only surprised that some of the tests were the same as at the time at the VKSH on Michurinsky. And the junior pupils coped with confidence. Therefore, they have the ability to memorize for a fast and long memory, to operate with large amounts of various information, the ability to think outside the box. Schools, gymnasiums and lyceums, no matter how they are reformed, fulfill their main purpose
        1. Verdun
          Verdun 18 May 2016 18: 00
          +2
          Granddaughter took part in the finals of the Olympiad "Our Heritage" in Moscow
          The best go to the Olympiads. Now, in the presence of the Internet, it is not a problem to find the necessary information, if you really wanted to. But the level of education is assessed for all students. And not everyone "wants" to learn. At the same time, the task of the teacher is to teach his students to want to receive knowledge. And not everyone is coping with this task now, although for different reasons.
    3. St_tov
      St_tov 19 May 2016 23: 29
      0
      Autodesk's 3D Max costs $ 1500 for a one-year license, and Photoshop costs about $ 250. Is it not expensive for a seventh grader?
  7. 31rus2
    31rus2 18 May 2016 08: 14
    +4
    dear, the problem is much wider and deeper, I will say this is the loss of the very culture of education, upbringing, the loss of the main thing in education and upbringing, to learn to think, and not to be a consumer of information
    1. PHANTOM-AS
      PHANTOM-AS 18 May 2016 09: 35
      +8
      Quote: 31rus2
      dear, the problem is much wider and deeper, I will say this is the loss of the very culture of education, upbringing, the loss of the main thing in education and upbringing, to learn to think, and not to be a consumer of information

      The problem is that education has been attributed to the service sector!
  8. CONTROL
    CONTROL 18 May 2016 08: 45
    +5
    A case (from personal observations) at one of the exhibitions and presentations of something building-material, some kind of moura (hardening, sealing, increasing frost resistance, sulfate resistance and water resistance, as well as adhesion to reinforcement - concrete and mortars, if I'm not mistaken. ..unnecessary, in general, junk ...), in the form of a dialogue:
    "Boy" is a manager, a smart one - referring to the "guest" - the visitor of the exhibition:
    - What are you interested in? What industry do you specialize in ... a ... a-lizing? !
    "Guest" -Visitor:
    - Yes, I have a beer ...
    -Produce, sell, advertise? ...
    - I drink! ... (at the exhibition they’re free to pour ...)
  9. verb
    verb 18 May 2016 08: 57
    +3
    Here are the three main "whales" on which the "fifth column" stands, trying to sabotage, if not destroy, then at least sabotage the further development of the country: Minneobraz, Ministry of Social Falls, Ministry of Finance. In my opinion, all hidden enemies of Russia have gathered there.
  10. Korsar4
    Korsar4 18 May 2016 09: 01
    +5
    And there is. A bunch of work programs, idiotic FOSov. More and more bureaucracy, which has nothing to do with common sense. Mergers, acquisitions and so on.
  11. 31rus2
    31rus2 18 May 2016 09: 40
    +3
    Dear, the rating doesn’t show anything and absolutely doesn’t affect the level of knowledge, if Min education prepares personnel for the West, and it will be (already is), then everything is clear, we will continue to look for ways of import substitution
  12. Alex0782
    Alex0782 18 May 2016 09: 47
    +4
    You read a similar article and it becomes very sad and depressing at heart where we are going and what the future awaits Russia under such a development scenario.
  13. linkor9000
    linkor9000 18 May 2016 10: 00
    +2
    the planned collapse has been going on since 2003, the law on "lapdogs" was pushed through by Yabloko and Yavlinsky.

    main problem: the task of education is the provision of educational services.
    compare the USSR: training for the national economy.

    Everything else follows from here, welcome to predatory capitalism
  14. VP
    VP 18 May 2016 10: 13
    0
    The author, but there is a link to the requirement of the Ministry of Education and Science that masters of industrial training are required to have a teacher education or is this your version?
  15. Lus
    Lus 18 May 2016 10: 49
    +2
    Reformers suggest starting even earlier - to cheat children from school.
    1. sodick
      sodick 18 May 2016 12: 57
      0
      There is also the word "USS" spelled "USS"
  16. Verdun
    Verdun 18 May 2016 10: 59
    0
    The author, but there is a link to the requirement of the Ministry of Education and Science that masters of industrial training are required to have a teacher education or is this your version?
    A few years ago I tried to get a job teaching children technical creativity. The situation is simple - the less certificates you have confirming different qualifications, the less you will receive a salary. Moreover, already in the process of work it is required to constantly confirm and improve this very qualification. In theory, it looks beautiful. But in practice, people with a qualification level that allows them to receive a satisfactory salary in their life if they have met, then only a few. At the same time, you will spend so much time on confirmation and advanced training that you will no longer have time to teach.
    1. VP
      VP 18 May 2016 13: 19
      -1
      Quote: Verdun
      The situation is simple - the less certificates you have that confirm different qualifications, the less wages you will receive

      This is everywhere and not only in the Russian Federation. Qualifications should be confirmed and not in words or in good relations with superiors. I don’t see anything terrible here.
      Quote: Verdun
      Moreover, already in the process of work it is required to constantly confirm and improve this very qualification

      Also consider it quite normal. Who needs a machine operator who once learned how to work on a milling machine of 1960, and that’s all.
      Moreover, some working categories are constantly forced to undergo re-certification.
      Quote: Verdun
      people with a qualification level that allows them to receive a satisfactory salary in such a position if they have met, then only a few.

      People with strong work skills can always find a very good place outside of budget organizations.
      A friend of mine, working in the main place and having teases, normally finished a hut for myself, bought a Lexus rx and every year my wife and daughter rode around Turkey-Egypt. Pulls electrical equipment at complex facilities, connects and launches new machines, etc., ratsuh ...
      Quote: Verdun
      At the same time, you will spend so much time on confirmation and advanced training that you will no longer have time to teach.

      Further training is always a difficult and not a two-minute thing. At many enterprises, training is sent for a couple of weeks or a month
      1. Verdun
        Verdun 18 May 2016 14: 46
        +2
        Further training is always a difficult and not a two-minute thing. At many enterprises, training is sent for a couple of weeks or a month
        In existing realities, most continuing education courses are a simple formality, a waste of time. When he worked as a production mechanic at a transport company, the company simply bought the necessary pieces of paper for its employees for money.
        A friend of mine, working in the main place and having teases, normally finished a hut for myself, bought a Lexus rx and every year my wife and daughter rode around Turkey-Egypt. Pulls electrical equipment at complex facilities, connects and launches new machines, etc., ratsuh ...
        Why should a working specialist for a normal wage somewhere on the side?

        Also consider it quite normal. Who needs a machine operator who once learned how to work on a milling machine of 1960, and that’s all.
        Milling machines produced during this period often allow you to perform work with higher accuracy than modern CNC-equipped machines. It is incredibly difficult to find talented and experienced specialists who can work on metalworking equipment. State-owned enterprises are in dire need of them, but precisely because of the lack of various pieces of paper it is not possible to pay them a normal salary, such people go to the private sector.
        Qualifications should be confirmed and not in words or in good relations with superiors.
        Qualification must be confirmed by the end result of labor. If the result is satisfactory, there is qualification. If there is no result, then attach at least a hundred pieces of paper with stamps - what's the point of them? At the same time, they cannot judge the specifics of the activities of a particular enterprise at any advanced training courses. Yes, and in fact, there is no one to judge. Well, who can judge the qualifications of, say, a space rocket collector, except for those who use these rockets?
  17. Rostislav
    Rostislav 18 May 2016 11: 13
    +1
    Sensitive subject.
    I think that after the rearmament of the Armed Forces, the closest attention should be paid to schools and universities, upbringing and education. Because the generation of "effective managers" being raised now with purchased diplomas will not be able to either produce a new one or protect the existing one.
    The prestige in the society of the teaching profession and its salary must be raised in the same way as the prestige of military service was raised. Until it's not too late.
  18. akudr48
    akudr48 18 May 2016 11: 36
    +2
    The article is true, as well as the funeral conclusion that the author makes about the educational system in modern Russia.

    It is only a pity that the situation with education is considered in isolation from other processes of degradation of the foundations of life in Russia (medicine, the pension system, taxes, housing and communal services, monopolism, price increases, theft, replacing the political process with television talk shows, etc.).

    And the matter of the funeral of the people of the country of Livanov is not engaged alone, there, above, there is with whom to share the glory of the branch Herostrats ...

    Yes, and by name there are doubts, Frankenstein was clearly not stupid, but very smart, talented, although the devil.

    The current nestlings of Livanov’s nest should simply be dumb buttons on the smartphone, as Livanov and his serrated curators intended. As well as fans of football, figating, hockey, beer, singer Kirkorov, Malakhov evenings, etc.
    That's all.

    Previously, the country of the USSR posed and in many ways solved the tasks of mechanization, automation, chemicalization, and even building communism. Smells were right.
    Now it’s different, the task of complete stupidity of the people has been set. So that they could not compete with those elected, the descendants of the lake cooperative, with the formation of the cordon.

    I wonder if they can get a solid routine of the whole country (or has it already happened?).

    And also, whether people will finally agree to this Lebanonization, that’s the question so far ....
  19. Mobik
    Mobik 18 May 2016 12: 31
    -1
    Here I read the local wise men and retire, but why did you not please the USE? First, try to pass it yourself, then criticize.
    1. Bramb
      Bramb 18 May 2016 13: 39
      +2
      I answer: The exam does not show whether a person can think. It just shows the ability to remember. And the system preparing for the USE is not aimed at the development of thinking, but only at the development of memory.
      A thoughtless person, even a specialist, can rub anything into his dumb head. This is no longer a human being, but rather a biorobot that can only carry out certain programs according to a predetermined method.
  20. Bramb
    Bramb 18 May 2016 13: 33
    +4
    The author himself would read a little. Frankenstein is not a monster, but a scientist who dealt with the problem of eternal life.
    You should not look at the ratings: I personally know the kid that after graduating from Fiztekh he left for the states, passed a post-graduate exam there a week (twice, because the other teachers did not believe it), he immediately received a laboratory, staff, and six months later a department. At the same time, he was an ordinary troechnik!
    Well, and now education ... To talk about him, I need a machine gun and permission to kill.
    1. St_tov
      St_tov 20 May 2016 03: 45
      0
      Rare nonsense. Graduate students in laboratories, and especially departments, are not given, even if you have been chosen three times. Those. postgraduate study ~ 3 years, 2 years post-doc, and only then can there be its own laboratory, and the department, when at least 10 years in the specialty. Otherwise, it’s either impossible or unlikely (when his dad donated $ XNUMX million to the university). Another question is that this is how ordinary troeins describe their career in the USA on Facebook.
  21. bandabas
    bandabas 18 May 2016 13: 50
    +4
    As the article says, it really is. Hello to the effective menegars. But you don’t have to go far. Yesterday, one of the prominent liberalists, Mr. Kudrin A.L. again returned to the helm of the country. I won’t be surprised if Ms. Vasilyeva appears again in the Ministry of Defense soon. And so it is everywhere. Unsinkable submarines.
  22. iouris
    iouris 18 May 2016 14: 26
    +1
    It is the goals of the educational policy that the Ministry of Education and Science successfully implements (!) That determine the future of the people (well, or its absence). However, the problem is not so much in educational policy as in socio-economic policy. The course towards the inclusion of the USSR economy in the "global" economy means the destruction of the material and technical base of the USSR, and with this the degradation of science, education and morality is inevitable.
    1. dr. sem
      dr. sem 18 May 2016 17: 11
      +1
      And what can the minobrazzzzzzzz do?
      1. iouris
        iouris 18 May 2016 23: 01
        0
        What do Satanovsky and Livanov have in common? - "Institute of Steel and Alloys".
  23. sgapich
    sgapich 18 May 2016 17: 21
    +3
    He got his first education just in vocational school, specializing in "assembler of radio-electronic equipment and devices", he passed practice and passed to NPO them. Lavochkin, and the institute is much later, after the army. I worked up to the head of the technical department starting with the installer. And now, a graduate comes to our depot to get a job as an engineer-technologist, whatever you ask: "We were not taught this."
  24. ingineer
    ingineer April 2 2018 00: 25
    0
    Quote: kebeskin
    China - Half a day studying at a university, the rest of the time you work in a laboratory to research something, or to produce something. And there it is from the early courses. As a result, by the end of training there, a more or less advanced specialist comes out.

    This is a German training system.
    Our laboratories are defeated.
  25. ingineer
    ingineer April 2 2018 00: 28
    0
    Quote: Bramb
    Well, and now education ... To talk about him, I need a machine gun and permission to kill.


    And roads, and fire safety ....