Military Review

Mass media: In the Russian Federation they started to create separate elements of the Barguzin complex

103
In Russia, the creation of separate elements of the combat train began. complex "Barguzin", reports TASS.


Mass media: In the Russian Federation they started to create separate elements of the Barguzin complex


“The design documentation has been worked out, some elements of the complex are being created, but there are no exact dates for its creation and adoption”,
said the agency unnamed representative of the defense industry.

He noted that "clarity in terms will come in the 2018 year."

The commander of the Strategic Missile Forces, Sergei Karakaev, reported on the start of work on the reconstruction of the Barguzin complex in 2014. According to him, "the outline design of the complex has already been completed."

It is noted that the predecessors of the Barguzin were decommissioned in 2005.

According to the agency referring to the source, “one Barguzin train will be able to carry six intercontinental ballistic missiles developed on the basis of Yars and will be equated to a regiment.”

Earlier it was planned to put the complex into operation by 2020 g, but last year due to the difficult financial situation in the country, the dates were postponed for more than one year.
Photos used:
Alexander Babenko / TASS
103 comments
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  1. Alexander 3
    Alexander 3 12 May 2016 18: 18
    +16
    Eh, such complexes were sawn. When they create a new one, I think that after passing such a train, the railway will not need to be repaired.
    1. Alex_Rarog
      Alex_Rarog 12 May 2016 18: 21
      +14
      The new one will be much better and the weight will be less and more efficiency!
    2. vlad66
      vlad66 12 May 2016 18: 23
      +8
      “The design documentation has been worked out, separate elements of the complex are being created, but there is no exact timeline for its creation and adoption”

      The main thing is that they create and work on it, I would certainly like to quickly, but everything rests on finances. yes
    3. Lord of the Sith
      Lord of the Sith 12 May 2016 18: 28
      +9
      But what were
      1. Paranoid50
        Paranoid50 12 May 2016 23: 28
        +5
        Yes, yes, exactly that. Every day I observe on the way from work, passing by the Warsaw station - sticks out, from a distance to see ...
        1. Red_Hamer
          Red_Hamer 13 May 2016 02: 33
          +9
          The museum exhibit, and when tinted, they drove away to the next branch, in the Pentagon the panic rose, they called back to ours, they say what was the matter, what was it? laughing
          I can imagine how they will be "happy" with the new BZHRK.
      2. Aryan
        Aryan 14 May 2016 20: 35
        0
        And is it not with this train that you can dig the famous strait between the oceans? bully
    4. theadenter
      theadenter 12 May 2016 19: 06
      +5
      What is now upset by the past. The main thing is that the project was developed. After all, it should be pleasing. drinks
      1. Monarchist
        Monarchist 12 May 2016 19: 11
        +1
        Monarchist. I agree: thanks, that the Lord thought up some people in the General Staff
        1. Michael67
          Michael67 12 May 2016 19: 39
          +1
          Hurry up. This club will be one of the most effective.
    5. Bramb
      Bramb 12 May 2016 19: 40
      0
      The complexes were, seemingly, good, but ... One small, but so huge flaw that it is no longer a pity. For reference: the weight of the car was about 100 tons with a standard railways of 60 tons.
      Imagine what happened to the railroad tracks after the passage of such a train: unscheduled repair of all tracks on a multi-kilometer train. Imagine what would happen after the passage of this train during the hostilities: nothing to fail normally is a disaster!
      So whatever is done is all for the best. And it is necessary to secret it so that even in Kostroma no one knows anything !!!
      1. reservist
        reservist 12 May 2016 19: 46
        +3
        on those cars, it seems like a "double set" of wheelsets was also provided for a clever design to distribute the load to neighboring cars
        but the paths for them were specially prepared, it was impossible to let such a train go over ordinary wooden sleepers
        1. Bramb
          Bramb 12 May 2016 19: 48
          +2
          Yes, double pairs, a triple locomotive ... It's simple, but the Americans, could not solve this problem in such a simple way. For it’s not so simple really.
          1. clidon
            clidon 14 May 2016 21: 55
            0
            Few Americans would have allowed nuclear weapons to be carried along private public roads. Well, plus there was no such tension as we have with the survivability of missile systems - the main "load" lay on the submarines.
        2. Wheel
          Wheel 12 May 2016 20: 33
          +5
          Quote: reservist
          on ordinary wooden sleepers such a train was not allowed

          We went on wooden.
          1. reservist
            reservist 13 May 2016 10: 54
            0
            Is it really as fast as concrete?
      2. neri73-r
        neri73-r 12 May 2016 19: 50
        +4
        Imagine what happened to the railroad tracks after the passage of such a train: unscheduled repair of all tracks on a multi-kilometer train. Imagine what would happen after the passage of this train during the hostilities: nothing to fail normally is a disaster!


        Not certainly in that way! The paths of course wore out harder and faster, but not as fast as you say.

        The tracks were remade for them, near my house in the beginning of the 80s they put new wooden sleepers on the tracks, and after half a year they completely replaced the track with rails with reinforced concrete sleepers (we still thought why, because everything is new) but, as I learned then, 400 meters from my house, there was a / plant, which made rolling stock for "Molodets". I (and the other guys) also did not understand all the time why refrigerators (wagons) were constantly driven to a military plant, which they do (as we knew) at another plant, next door, in another district of the city.
      3. Wheel
        Wheel 12 May 2016 20: 32
        +5
        Quote: Bramb
        Dean is a small, but so huge flaw that it is no longer a pity. For reference: the weight of the car was about 100 tons with a standard railways of 60 tons.
        Imagine what happened to the railroad tracks after the passage of such a train: unscheduled repair of all tracks on a multi-kilometer train. Imagine what would happen after the passage of this train during the hostilities: nothing to fail normally is a disaster!

        Everything was normal with pressure on the way.
        It was quite normal and walked on wooden sleepers, no unscheduled repairs.
      4. ARES623
        ARES623 12 May 2016 20: 42
        +6
        Quote: Bramb
        The complexes were, seemingly, good, but ... One small, but so huge flaw that it is no longer a pity. For reference: the weight of the car was about 100 tons with a standard railways of 60 tons.

        For your reference: the axle load is standardized on the railway (as one of the main critical parameters), and for the bulk of roads it is 23,5 tons per axle. Therefore, the railway can handle a tank, for example 15-1500 with a total weight of 176 tons. At the same time, on the "Molodets", plus an 8-axle platform ", there was a system for distributing the load on neighboring platforms. In fairness, I would nevertheless note that the composition was seriously different from ordinary trucks in appearance. Barguzin in its" exterior "will be closer to the usual composition.
      5. dvina71
        dvina71 12 May 2016 20: 53
        0
        Quote: Bramb
        For reference: the weight of the car was about 100 tons with a standard railways of 60 tons.

        For reference. There is no standard for the weight of a wagon or platform. There is a standard for axle or trolley loads (a pair of axles). BZHRK wagons were just different by an extra trolley, but this can only be considered in a parking lot.
        1. 31rus2
          31rus2 12 May 2016 22: 11
          +4
          Dear you are absolutely right, I personally had a relationship with tales of sleepers and weight loads, I hear many times, by the way a triple locomotive from the same tale, I explain everything depended on the weight of the train and the terrain, there could be a 4 locomotive, further on the weight, a question for connoisseurs, how did the conveyors go with a carrying capacity of 120-250 tons, eight axle tanks with a carrying capacity of 120 tons, plus a container of a car
      6. PSih2097
        PSih2097 13 May 2016 10: 52
        0
        Quote: Bramb
        at the norm of railway roads of 60 tons.

        a full railway tank of 73m3 weighs more ...

        8-axis railway tank for oil products, model 15-871 Payload - 120 t
        Wagon tare weight - 48,8 t
        Body volume - 140m3

        8-axle railway tank car for oil, model 15-880 order load capacity - 125 t
        Wagon tare weight - 51 t
        Body volume - 159m3

        4-axle railway tank for gasoline and light petroleum products, model 15-869
        Payload - 62 t
        Wagon tare weight - 23,5 t
        Body volume - 88,6m3

        4-axle railway tank for gasoline with a transitional platform, model 15-1427
        Payload - 60 t
        Wagon tare weight - 23,4 t
        Body volume - 73,1m3

        4-axle tank for viscous petroleum products, model 15-1566
        Payload - 63,5 t
        Wagon tare weight - 24,23 t
        Body volume - 73,17m3
    6. Lt. Air Force stock
      Lt. Air Force stock 12 May 2016 23: 05
      +1
      Quote: Alexander 3
      Eh, such complexes were sawn. When they create a new one, I think that after passing such a train, the railway will not need to be repaired.

      If only the PGRK Courier project would be revived and brought to mind.
      It was supposed to create a mobile soil missile system based on a semi-trailer.
      Here is the article.
      http://topwar.ru/68819-proekt-podvizhnogo-gruntovogo-raketnogo-kompleksa-kurer.h
      tml
    7. Pasha
      Pasha 14 May 2016 18: 53
      0
      Ah, you just think, if this complex on the basis of SAPSAN is muddied laughing laughing laughing
  2. PKK
    PKK 12 May 2016 18: 20
    +3
    Industry does not even draw the volume of Barguzin. But I think they will drop new cadres of graduates, strengthen them with old specialists and do it. Barguzin is needed, a very sobering weapon
    1. Bramb
      Bramb 12 May 2016 19: 42
      +3
      Do not pull. Do not build. There are no people.
      We must be silent about this. And believe ... because there is something. )))
  3. LÄRZ
    LÄRZ 12 May 2016 18: 22
    +3
    He noted that "clarity in terms will come in the 2018 year."
    Isn't it a bit much for thought? Can I solve the issues more quickly or is there no interest?
    1. dmi.pris
      dmi.pris 12 May 2016 18: 36
      +3
      Here, I think it’s not a matter of interest — the industrial complex of Russia is not comparable with the military-industrial complex of the USSR .. It’s not even a matter of finances, they have always been lacking.
  4. Tim
    Tim 12 May 2016 18: 33
    +1
    My comrade served in the BZHRK, after which they were disbanded and he served as a military commissariat.
  5. Dr. Bormental
    Dr. Bormental 12 May 2016 18: 34
    +2
    My father told me in childhood that cars traveled around the country, and they had rockets, but I did not believe ...

    Glorious Sea - Holy Baikal,
    The glorious ship is the omul barrel.
    Hey, Barguzin, move the shaft,
    Well done swim nearby. winked
    1. lelikas
      lelikas 12 May 2016 18: 40
      +10
      Quote: Dr. Bormental
      My father told me in childhood that cars traveled around the country, and they had rockets, but I did not believe ...

      Holy truth ! wink
  6. Mountain shooter
    Mountain shooter 12 May 2016 18: 35
    0
    The new ones will be better than the old ones. Those were at the load limit of the railroad tracks. "Tiers" will be easier, and time has passed. Solid-propellant missiles launch quickly, and now have a decent range. "Barguzins" are a good addition to "Topols" and "Yars".
  7. 31rus2
    31rus2 12 May 2016 18: 35
    +1
    Dear, good news, it would be interesting and not cheaper to adapt the "Caliber" and "Iskander" for the near future, and then the "Barguzin" was finalized and there would be a complete railway set, you need to cover the direction, pull up the trains and strengthen the desired section, covered industrial centers
    1. wasjasibirjac
      wasjasibirjac 12 May 2016 19: 13
      +1
      Quote: 31rus2
      Dear, good news, it would be interesting and not cheaper to adapt "Caliber" and "Iskander" for the near future,
      But what, calibers need to be adapted? put a couple of containers on the platform and on the road.
    2. Muvka
      Muvka 12 May 2016 19: 13
      +6
      Quote: 31rus2
      Dear, good news, it would be interesting and not cheaper to adapt the "Caliber" and "Iskander" for the near future, and then the "Barguzin" was finalized and there would be a complete railway set, you need to cover the direction, pull up the trains and strengthen the desired section, covered industrial centers

      And why do we need a train, say in the Urals, with calibers? ICBMs are needed there.
      1. jjj
        jjj 12 May 2016 19: 38
        +4
        And who said that peaceful steamboats with such containers do not plow the expanses of the oceans
      2. 31rus2
        31rus2 12 May 2016 22: 21
        0
        Dear, they are not needed in the Urals, but in Europe, in the south, north, and in the seaside, the usual train came in, as far as I remember, it’s easy to remove the roof with 38 bolts on a covered wagon, and from there a surprise why I think the enemies will start tracking the covered container , or on the floor of a carriage from above scrap metal for disguise and again the surprise is ready, you can deliberately put disa about such cars, let them look
    3. TOR2
      TOR2 12 May 2016 20: 52
      0
      Quote: 31rus2
      Dear, good news, it would be interesting and not cheaper to adapt the "Caliber" and "Iskander" for the near future, and then the "Barguzin" was finalized and there would be a complete railway set, you need to cover

      It is necessary to create a whole class of weapons on the Barguzin platform. Let all the trains be similar in appearance, but with different fillings. For example trains with air defense systems or with anti-ship missiles if the sea is nearby. The car is a very suitable place for placing powerful electronic warfare systems, since there is where to place the power plant.
    4. NEXUS
      NEXUS 12 May 2016 22: 29
      +1
      Quote: 31rus2
      Dear, good news, it would be interesting and not cheaper to adapt the "Caliber" and "Iskander" for the near future, and then the "Barguzin" was finalized and there would be a complete railway set, you need to cover the direction, pull up the trains and strengthen the desired section, covered industrial centers

      The range of the YaRS is 11 km, against 000 for Caliber and 2600 km for Iskander. Do you feel the difference? The BZHR thought so that from anywhere in the country to pick up a rocket and send it to the adversary with best wishes. And with a range of 500 and subsonic speed ... firstly it will not reach the villain, and secondly, a high probability of interception.
      But this is why the RS-24, and not the RS-26, is still difficult to understand.
    5. Wheel
      Wheel 12 May 2016 22: 44
      0
      Quote: 31rus2
      Dear, good news, it would be interesting and not cheaper to adapt "Caliber"

      And what, have you already stolen the INF Treaty?
      1. kuz363
        kuz363 14 May 2016 20: 43
        0
        Tomahawks. like Caliber - cruise missiles with low speed. The INF Treaty does not fall under the agreement. Unlike ballistic missiles.
  8. sabakina
    sabakina 12 May 2016 18: 36
    +2
    I do not understand ... BZhRK did, one is in the museum in kind ... In a rocket? So "Yars" seems to be easier, which means it's easier to put it in the carriage ... I don't understand ...
    P.S. Sorry for our station "Cornflower" (Kostroma) ...
    1. lelikas
      lelikas 12 May 2016 18: 46
      +3
      Quote: sabakina
      I do not understand..

      That's just those who did, almost gone.
    2. reservist
      reservist 12 May 2016 19: 19
      0
      so probably the whole Union that train did

      from Wikipedia
      The only place in the USSR for the production of missiles for the BZHRK is the Pavlograd Mechanical Plant (PO Yuzhmash)
      1. icas
        icas 12 May 2016 20: 28
        +5
        Well, straight - Yuzhmash! Ukrainians at that time could not do anything. Engines (development and manufacture) - Perm, launcher - Peter, wagons - Kaliningrad (Tver). And the Utkin brothers from Yuzhmash received only medals.
        1. master.30.ru
          master.30.ru 14 May 2016 20: 39
          0
          If you don’t know exactly where and what was made for BZHRK-SO, DO NOT DISPLAY.
    3. Kos_kalinki9
      Kos_kalinki9 12 May 2016 19: 48
      +2
      Kostroma-40. Station Camomile, station Cornflower. Nostalgia.
    4. clidon
      clidon 14 May 2016 21: 56
      0
      I think that people at the top are still thinking, "is it necessary"? After all, there is already an automobile based option.
  9. BOB044
    BOB044 12 May 2016 18: 36
    +3
    Mass media: In the Russian Federation they started to create separate elements of the Barguzin complex
    Although I’m not a militarist, I rejoice at such news. For the power of pride. And foes a headache. hi
  10. Old26
    Old26 12 May 2016 18: 37
    +1
    Quote: LÄRZ
    He noted that "clarity in terms will come in the 2018 year."
    Isn't it a bit much for thought? Can I solve the issues more quickly or is there no interest?

    I think that it’s not possible to solve it more quickly. Too much to create
    1. Verdun
      Verdun 12 May 2016 20: 39
      +4
      I think that it’s not possible to solve it more quickly. Too much to create
      Moreover, to create anew, repeating what has already been done once. Alas, to destroy - not to build. The amount of unique equipment destroyed after the collapse of the USSR involuntarily suggests not just plain stupidity, but purposeful destruction of the country's potential. For this, the perpetrators should be brought to trial. And here - quiet, but smooth ...
  11. red joni
    red joni 12 May 2016 18: 45
    +1
    probably even more powerful thing will be than before.
  12. AKS-U
    AKS-U 12 May 2016 18: 47
    +4
    And it was worth cutting the previous ones, so that "... due to the difficult financial situation in the country, the dates were postponed by more than one year." And the enemy does not sleep (such an inscription was on every telephone).
    1. The comment was deleted.
  13. Anchonsha
    Anchonsha 12 May 2016 18: 49
    +1
    Well, that's great, the country's defense will become much stronger and at the same time more mysterious for NATO. Try now to determine what kind of train is moving. And "Yarsy" is much more compact and lighter than the previous BZHRK. Thanks to Putin, Shoigu for their decisive actions in taking care of the country's security.
  14. Old26
    Old26 12 May 2016 18: 50
    +1
    Quote: sabakina
    I do not understand ... BZhRK did, one is in the museum in kind ... In a rocket? So "Yars" seems to be easier, which means it's easier to put it in the carriage ... I don't understand ...
    P.S. Sorry for our station "Cornflower" (Kostroma) ...

    The question is not only about the rocket. By and large, "Yars" will not fit into a standard ref-car. What will be - ON THE BASE of "Yars". Or, if you like, taking into account the developments on "Yars" and "Bulava".
    It will be necessary to re-create the entire rolling stock, since most of the cars were made in Ukraine.
    You said yourself about "Cornflower". Others also ripped apart. This means that we will have to create PPD plus residential towns. Where this division will be based is also not known. This means that we will probably have to create new field positions. Works - above the roof.
  15. masiya
    masiya 12 May 2016 18: 56
    +1
    HOORAY!!! HOORAY!! HOORAY!!! Finally .... we will revive what was "marked" and "drunkard" JAIL RUSSIA (USSR).
    1. Wheel
      Wheel 12 May 2016 19: 03
      -3
      Quote: masiya
      HOORAY!!! HOORAY!! HOORAY!!! Finally .... we will revive the buried "marked" and "drunkard"

      BZHRK sent to cut Putin, if Che.
      1. reservist
        reservist 12 May 2016 19: 14
        +9
        and did Putin sign the START-2 treaty too?
        1. Wheel
          Wheel 12 May 2016 19: 24
          +2
          Quote: reservist
          and did Putin sign the START-2 treaty too?

          START II, ​​the Strategic Arms Reduction Treaty was signed by George W. Bush and Boris Yeltsin in January 1993. The treaty prohibits the use of ballistic missiles with multiple warheads. Although the treaty has been ratified by the parliaments of both states, it never entered into force. In response to the withdrawal of the United States from the ABM Treaty of 14, Russia withdrew from START II on June 2002, 1972.
          This is so for general development ...
          1. reservist
            reservist 12 May 2016 19: 34
            +1
            if the treaty did not enter into force, then how did Russia emerge from it?
            Russia withdrew from START-2 in 2002, i.e. already under Putin?
            1. Wheel
              Wheel 12 May 2016 20: 24
              -3
              Quote: reservist
              Russia withdrew from START-2 in 2002, i.e. already under Putin?

              Namely, he also ordered the disposal of the BZHRK.
              1. reservist
                reservist 13 May 2016 10: 52
                0
                But was it possible to maintain the combat readiness of the BZHRK?
      2. Chyudilkin
        Chyudilkin 12 May 2016 19: 18
        +7
        Quote: Wheel
        Quote: masiya
        HOORAY!!! HOORAY!! HOORAY!!! Finally .... we will revive the buried "marked" and "drunkard"

        BZHRK sent to cut Putin, if Che.


        Putin blurred the mattress eyes for 10 years, right now they won’t scratch their turnips like that.
        1. masiya
          masiya 12 May 2016 20: 58
          0
          In general, all that was it was ... and now the army is reborn, the fleet too, slowly ... slowly .. BUT GOES FORWARD !!!
        2. master.30.ru
          master.30.ru 14 May 2016 20: 43
          +1
          BZHRK SIMPLY ENDS 15 LIFE.
      3. Saburov
        Saburov 13 May 2016 10: 53
        +1
        Quote: Wheel
        BZHRK sent to cut Putin, if Che.


        And he did it right. You are inexperienced and short-sighted in your youth. Where are you going to take rockets for BZHRK Well done? If you do not know, then the R-23 UTTX missiles were made in Ukraine (Design Bureau "South"). And in the end, you would have a train, without appropriate combat and technical training. In addition to a number of advantages, BZHRK Molodets had a number of minuses. Technically, the BZHRK Molodets was very complex and expensive, which made it difficult to operate in the absence of a number of technical bases after the collapse of the USSR. More than 400 enterprises were involved in its creation alone, and more than 250 throughout the Union were engaged in service. The train was very heavy, railway workers still did not like it in the USSR, since the canvas after it often had to be changed simply (especially with wooden sleepers) and, moreover, it was tracked by three diesel locomotives that dragged it using modern satellite reconnaissance equipment. So they abandoned the complex not because someone forced us, but because of the impossibility of its operation and confirmation of its characteristics. And now there is an opportunity and a desire to create a more advanced BZHRK without dependence on anyone.
  16. gladysheff2010
    gladysheff2010 12 May 2016 19: 09
    +1
    Quote: Old26
    It will be necessary to re-create the entire rolling stock, since most of the cars were made in Ukraine.

    This is just not a problem — Russian Railways is no longer moaning. But the rest that you have listed is PROBLEM. The main problem is the shortage of qualified personnel — a new (old) system of training and retraining is needed!
  17. Old26
    Old26 12 May 2016 19: 12
    +5
    Quote: red joni
    probably even more powerful thing will be than before.

    Hardly. The number of BG on 6 missiles will surely be less than then on three. The old one was more mobile

    Quote: AKS-U
    And it was worth cutting the previous ones, so that "... due to the difficult financial situation in the country, the dates were postponed by more than one year." And the enemy does not sleep (such an inscription was on every telephone).

    By the time the rockets began to saw them, their warranty period had already been served. In addition, the manufacturer remained in Ukraine

    Quote: Anchonsha
    Well, that's great, the country's defense will become much stronger and at the same time more mysterious for NATO. Try now to determine what kind of train is moving. And "Yarsy" is much more compact and lighter than the previous BZHRK. Thanks to Putin, Shoigu for their decisive actions in taking care of the country's security.

    It is unlikely that the defense will become stronger from the presence of 30 additional missiles. But the costs are not commensurate with the deployment of PGRK, nor with the deployment of mine complexes.
    And as for the definition - the old one had so many unmasking signs that only the insufficient development of intelligence means at that time allowed the squad not to come across.
    Now reconnaissance tools are more powerful, and its output to the tracks will have to be shaken with dispatchers. Only before there were no computer networks, now getting into them is a much less complicated task. The minus of the complex is a fairly small autonomy compared to PGRK
    1. Bramb
      Bramb 12 May 2016 19: 45
      0
      I'll put you a plus sign.
      Well done! There is nothing left, you can see it directly from Washington, etc. Well done, old!)
    2. Verdun
      Verdun 12 May 2016 20: 49
      +4
      And as for the definition, the old one had so many unmasking signs that only the insufficient development of intelligence means at that time allowed the squad not to come across
      You are deeply mistaken. The background noise of the railway network creates does not allow to detect warheads by background radiation. And visually, the wagons in which the BZHRK was located did not differ from ordinary refrigerated ones. NATO-based experts have always considered such missiles to be the most dangerous. But do not forget that in such a large country as Russia, the use of such complexes is only possible while maintaining centralized management of the entire railway. If there is a division into competing railway companies, such as in the USA, for example, it will bury an expensive program.
    3. g1v2
      g1v2 13 May 2016 13: 04
      0
      One train with missiles will not do any weather, and frankly I don’t see much point in it. However, once it is being developed, it means they believe that this is necessary for something. In the end, the development of the project does not mean its implementation in hardware, let's see. hi
    4. krops777
      krops777 14 May 2016 17: 55
      +2
      It is unlikely that the defense will become stronger from the presence of 30 additional missiles.

      Well, given that in a rocket of about 10 warheads in total, 300 nuclear charges are not so small. The biggest plus of this complex is greater mobility per day for more than 800 km and no matter how low visibility, Amer experts say that to track such one complex you need to keep a satellite constellation in the number of 10-12 satellites and this is very expensive.
      Yes, and dispatchers do not need to shake anything, lay the thread in the schedule and that's it.
  18. BISMARCK94
    BISMARCK94 12 May 2016 19: 18
    +1
    Interestingly, what will drag them now? Previously, Mashka was engaged in this two-section (DM-62)
    1. Wheel
      Wheel 12 May 2016 22: 42
      +1
      Quote: BISMARCK94
      Interestingly, what will drag them now? Previously, Mashka was engaged in this two-section (DM-62)

      The train included three single-section M-62.
  19. APASUS
    APASUS 12 May 2016 19: 22
    0
    Interestingly, have they already created a new diesel locomotive for moving such systems along the railroad tracks? Or how during the USSR they will be dragged by three diesel locomotives and hope that such compositions are not visible from space
    1. dvina71
      dvina71 12 May 2016 21: 06
      0
      Quote: APASUS
      Interestingly, have they already created a new diesel locomotive for moving such systems along the railroad tracks?

      Is that enough?
      1. APASUS
        APASUS 12 May 2016 22: 28
        0
        Quote: dvina71
        Is that enough?

        It’s not a missile system to carry empty cars, but I think the Americans will figure out such a composition at the moment, by how many such locomotives will be transported by refrigerators
  20. CORNET
    CORNET 12 May 2016 19: 23
    +3
    I still like this option more .... hi
    1. masiya
      masiya 12 May 2016 20: 35
      0
      Yes, this one is for sure at the moment ...
  21. Signaller
    Signaller 12 May 2016 19: 34
    0
    Stumble. Then they sent me- Adaptation to winter conditions - elementary heaters in a bundle with galvanization. ?????? Well, you give the country coal ????. Everything is long known. Maybe in the 80s it was secret, but so long - non-combustible polypropylene - they use it at the dachas .. Dear, it’s true, but there are no rags. Those who want to buy it. So where does the SCALPEL ???? .. Yes, like two fingers on the asphalt. Thermal insulation is the main thing, the rest is passed.
    1. Bramb
      Bramb 12 May 2016 19: 51
      0
      Take a word (or learn chemistry yourself)): DO NOT insulate with non-combustible polypropylene foam! It will not burn longer and you will be healthier.))
  22. Alexandr2637
    Alexandr2637 12 May 2016 19: 38
    0
    As if before a big war did not happen.
    1. masiya
      masiya 12 May 2016 21: 14
      0
      Yes, a better war would be better than a shitty world ... there wouldn’t be a nuclear one - for sure, our darling partners would be scattered ... and we won’t overcome a simple war game together once in a hundred years from the 17th century (Time of Troubles 1612. - Kozma Minin, the First Patriotic War of 1812, a lot of wars with the TURKS in the 19th century. And the First World War, well, our internal conflicts, BUT THE PATRIOTIC WAR interrupted everything, the burden of the arrogant Europeans, and even the amers will be ...
  23. ARES623
    ARES623 12 May 2016 20: 50
    0
    Or maybe they are already surfing the railway spaces of the "Caliber" in container ships? Stockpiles of missiles lie somewhere in warehouses, in "ordinary" container stacks. During the period of "war danger" they left for trains a day and concentrated in the required direction. And nobody noticed .... Why not? smile
  24. Old26
    Old26 12 May 2016 21: 32
    +1
    Quote: Wheel
    Although the treaty was ratified by the parliaments of both states, it never entered into force.

    Nevertheless, both parties complied with the provisions of this treaty.

    Quote: APASUS
    Interestingly, have they already created a new diesel locomotive for moving such systems along the railroad tracks? Or how during the USSR they will be dragged by three diesel locomotives and hope that such compositions are not visible from space

    Three locomotives in the old complex were needed for greater tactical flexibility of the complex. Although as a unmasking sign - yes, there was a problem

    Quote: gladysheff2010
    This is just not a problem — Russian Railways is no longer moaning. But the rest that you have listed is PROBLEM. The main problem is the shortage of qualified personnel — a new (old) system of training and retraining is needed!

    The problem may not be with Russian Railways. After all, it is necessary to create not just wagons. For example, in the old BZHRE, in addition to the "simple" cars in terms of manufacturing, such as a tank car, an autonomous reserve car, a canteen and dormitories for officers and conscripts, there were also:
    - car of technological equipment of the starting module
    - module launcher
    - KP launcher
    - KP command module (KP regiment)
    - Transmitting radio center
    - Diesel power station

    But these are not just wagons. And they must be done from scratch
    1. Wheel
      Wheel 12 May 2016 22: 13
      0
      Quote: Old26
      Nevertheless, both parties complied with the provisions of this treaty.

      Oh really?
      Have the RGCs taken both of them?
  25. Old26
    Old26 12 May 2016 22: 06
    0
    Quote: Verdun
    And as for the definition, the old one had so many unmasking signs that only the insufficient development of intelligence means at that time allowed the squad not to come across
    You are deeply mistaken. The background noise of the railway network creates does not allow to detect warheads by background radiation. And visually, the wagons in which the BZHRK was located did not differ from ordinary refrigerated ones. NATO-based experts have always considered such missiles to be the most dangerous. But do not forget that in such a large country as Russia, the use of such complexes is only possible while maintaining centralized management of the entire railway. If there is a division into competing railway companies, such as in the USA, for example, it will bury an expensive program.

    We are not talking about the detection of BG by background radiation. The largest unmasking feature was the composition configuration. 17 cars with three locomotives (for space reconnaissance). And this is the main thing.
    A fairly small autonomy determined the range of the complex.
    1. 31rus2
      31rus2 12 May 2016 22: 35
      0
      Dear what I’m talking about, I personally saw the dispatch with one locomotive, where and how I won’t write, then who told you that the number of cars is always 17, the number of cars was different and not always the same, about the dispatcher, the same is not entirely true, the report on the parish-departure had a different scheme, the documents for the train, even when sent, were given conventional units for memory, the total weight of 630 tons plus, depending on the model of the locomotive
    2. Wheel
      Wheel 12 May 2016 22: 39
      +2
      Quote: Old26
      A fairly small autonomy determined the range of the complex.

      28 days - a little autonomy?
      Quote: Old26
      The largest unmasking feature was the composition configuration. 17 cars with three locomotives (for space reconnaissance). And this is the main thing.
      Well, yes, one nuance - to keep all trains under control, users needed to launch another 18 satellites ....
    3. reservist
      reservist 13 May 2016 11: 00
      +1
      and something prevented you from attaching additional "dummy" cars or an additional pair of locomotives to the usual "civilian" trains?
  26. Who said
    Who said 12 May 2016 22: 24
    +1
    It will be necessary to try it out on labs pschek and saloids
  27. kmv.km
    kmv.km 12 May 2016 22: 42
    0
    These "Barguzinov" and "Sarmatov" and "Yarsov" SHOULD BE FASTER AND MORE !!! AND FIRST FINANCING !!!

    I think that there was a "skew - bend" in the direction of "Boreev-clubs"! The results on the naval component of Russia's strategic nuclear forces are not impressive, unfortunately ... When the Dolphins - R-29 ... "leave the seas and oceans, there may be nothing left but the Boreyevs - clubless ...

    Forum people, do not be offended or criticize in vain, I am not special in Russia's strategic nuclear forces, but it seems to me that nobody can cancel MATHEMATICS! START III, and until the US-Soviet Missile Defense is deployed Globally, the Parties will continue to follow it (the treaty) in one way or another ...
    So the numbers: Allowed 700 carriers, subtract ~ 100 bombers each (even if this "subtraction" is VERY NOT in favor of Russia), 600 remains.
    Plans for "Boreyev-clubs" 8 pcs. X (multiply) by 16 media = 128 media. Then we multiply 128 carriers ONLY BY 3 Charges (I hope there are NO more Charges on this "racket", I really hope!) AND WE GET 384 Charges! (NOT FLYING, at least "yet", Charges!). An easy proportion, and we get 27% of 1450 Charges, that is, ALREADY LEFT ONE THIRD !!!
    And if you take into account
    that the Tu-160M2 is only plans (God forbid Shoigu will "build" at least 30-40, not 50 "promised"), and the Tu-95MS ... this is to put it mildly "yesterday", even with the Kh-101 (102) ;
    that there is no "ocean" fleet and is not expected, I do not want to offend anyone, this is objective in terms of Economics;
    then LAG can be Increased by How much% I don’t know ...

    BOTTOM LINE - Can it be better to focus on what is happening now or what has happened before and can actually be produced or reproduced and protected NOW? - "Ground ICBM" - Yars RS-24, Yarsy.M RS-26, strategic Ground Missile carriers "Barguzin-Molodtsy" based on the above-mentioned RS-24-26;
    AND UNCONDITIONALLY ANY PRICE TO REPLACE VOEVODES WITH SARMATS !!!
  28. Old26
    Old26 12 May 2016 23: 56
    +1
    Quote: Wheel
    Oh, is it true? Have the RGCs been hijacked by both?

    Maybe I wrote clumsily, but BASIC both parties complied with the contract parameters. In honesty regarding the ceilings. As for the RGCh, as far as I remember Primakov’s statements on this subject, we partially complied with this provision by reducing the number of heavy ICBMs and not unloading the UR-100N UTTH. Further, both sides liquidated the ICBMs with the RGG. Russia - RT-23 UTTX, MX Americans.
    The provision on non-deployment at the PGRK RGCh was observed.
    So we can say that they complied. If not in all respects, then in many respects.

    Quote: 31rus2
    Dear what I’m talking about, I personally saw the dispatch with one locomotive, where and how I will not write

    You personally saw the dispatch alone, those who went to them on the database claim that there were 3. Who is right?
    None of the published photos of the BZHRK have a single locomotive. Only 3? How can you comment on this?

    Quote: 31rus2
    then who told you that the number of cars is always 17, the number of cars was different and not always the same

    Really? so different and not always the same? What do you propose to throw away? The cistern? Launcher itself? Or KP? Or dormitory? Perhaps a dining room? What?

    Train Configuration:
    = three locomotives DM-62
    = tank car 15T320
    = launch module No. 1 in the composition
    - a carriage of technological equipment (diesel engines, SES, ZOKS) 15T273
    - launcher 15T272
    - KP launcher 15V199
    (all cars are unselectable, impassable)
    = launch module No. 2 in the same composition
    = launch module No. 3 in the same composition
    = command module as part of
    - transmitting radio center 15T274
    - diesel power station 15T276
    - KP regiment 15T275
    = 15T280 autonomous reserve car
    = dining car 15T277
    = officer dormitory car 15T278
    = military service dormitory 15T279

    Now try to answer the question, what is superfluous if, as you say
    the number of cars was different and not always the same

    What is superfluous? Besides THREE locomotive - this is not a whim of the designers, or as they sometimes write now - the reason is the low power of the locomotives. The reason is simple. THREE diesel locomotives were needed so that, if necessary, in the field position, it would be possible to "separate" three launch modules (divisions) at a certain distance, eliminating the defeat of one nuclear warhead

    Quote: Wheel
    28 days - a little autonomy?

    Compared to PGRK, where field positions could have been a month and a half, yes, relatively small. In addition, according to the employees, it was the maximum autonomy, calculated more likely by reserves. In real life -21 days, and most often in general 14. Psychologically it was very difficult to maintain the maximum ...

    Quote: Wheel
    Well, yes, one nuance - to keep all trains under control, users needed to launch another 18 satellites ....

    More. But we are talking about a theoretical possibility to identify BZHRK because of its configuration
  29. Zomanus
    Zomanus 13 May 2016 00: 00
    +1
    Well developed and that is good.
    And the old complex was also hacked because rockets were made in Ukraine.
    And Ukraine at that time was craving for gums with the States, draining all the information to them.
    And there are no missiles, there is no sense in this complex.
    And now everything is on our base, there is also a need for electronic warfare to be developed, so the work is not for one year.
  30. Ros 56
    Ros 56 13 May 2016 07: 12
    0
    Well, with this you can congratulate the striped, they eventually got their way. They didn’t want to live in peace, now think about where to run in case of something. And only individual Russians began to make elements, or already the BZHRK was skating somewhere.
    In short, they contributed to our defenses.
  31. magician
    magician 13 May 2016 08: 14
    +1
    Good news, I waited a long time! This is a Russian prodigy for NATO!
  32. Old26
    Old26 13 May 2016 13: 16
    0
    Quote: kmv.km
    These "Barguzinov" and "Sarmatov" and "Yarsov" SHOULD BE FASTER AND MORE !!! AND FIRST FINANCING !!!

    "Yarsy" and so priority. "Barguzins" and "Sarmatians", even with the availability of priority funding, will be put into service in 4 years, not earlier.

    Quote: kmv.km
    I think that there was a "skew - bend" in the direction of "Boreev-clubs"! The results on the naval component of Russia's strategic nuclear forces are not impressive, unfortunately ... When the Dolphins - R-29 ... "leave the seas and oceans, there may be nothing left but the Boreyevs - clubless ...

    What's the inflection point? The fact that old boats were replaced with new ones? And "pinless" sorry "Boreas" are exclusively in your brain. Those who serve on them (and already two "Boreas" on the base) and do not know that they have "pinless" boats and they go without ammunition

    Quote: kmv.km
    Forum people, do not be offended or criticize in vain, I am not special in Russia's strategic nuclear forces, but it seems to me that nobody can cancel MATHEMATICS!

    Yes, no one can cancel the MATH, only it must be correct. MATHEMATICS - science is accurate, and therefore the numbers must be accurate.

    Quote: kmv.km
    So the numbers: Allowed 700 carriers, subtract ~ 100 bombers each (even if this "subtraction" is VERY NOT in favor of Russia), 600 remains.

    Allowed to have 800 media, of which 100 are not deployed. Subtracting about 100 bombers isn't worth it, since you're talking about math. "Cut sturgeon" by 30%, get more or less exact number
  33. Old26
    Old26 13 May 2016 13: 17
    0
    Quote: kmv.km
    Plans for "Boreyev-clubs" 8 pcs. X (multiply) by 16 media = 128 media. Then we multiply 128 carriers ONLY BY 3 Charges (I hope there are NO more Charges on this "racket", I really hope!) AND WE GET 384 Charges! (NOT FLYING, at least "yet", Charges!). An easy proportion, and we get 27% of 1450 Charges, that is, ALREADY LEFT ONE THIRD !!!

    Why 3 and not 6? There is no hope that there will be exactly 3 and no more. 384 charges on Bulava? May be. And maybe more, and maybe less ... Read how the BRs are calculated under the START-3 treaty.
    And why did you dislike the Bulava so much? And as for the proportion ... You yourself spoke about MATH, but you are giving incorrect calculations. How many BGs will be and what the total percentage of the total will be is unknown. But according to the Treaty, at the time of its implementation, we should have about 1750 warheads EMNIP.

    Quote: kmv.km
    And if we take into account that the Tu-160M2 is only plans (God forbid Shoigu will "build" at least 30-40, not 50 "promised"), and the Tu-95MS ... this is to put it mildly "yesterday", even with X-101 (102)

    Here you are talking about plans, and above about the "Boreas" as accomplished. And what is "to put it mildly" TU-95MS? As a platform, it is quite versatile. The Americans have B-52s no younger, but in the next 20-25 years they are not going to write them off. After upgrading to the TU-95MSM level, the bomber will be capable of carrying not only the Kh-55, Kh-55SM, Kh-555, and also the Kh-101 and Kh-102.

    Quote: kmv.km
    BOTTOM LINE - Can it be better to focus on what is happening now or what has happened before and can actually be produced or reproduced and protected NOW? - "Ground ICBM" - Yars RS-24, Yarsy.M RS-26, strategic Ground Missile carriers "Barguzin-Molodtsy" based on the above-mentioned RS-24-26;
    AND UNCONDITIONALLY ANY PRICE TO REPLACE VOEVODES WITH SARMATS !!!

    That is, you yourself advocate not a mythical, but a real imbalance in strategic nuclear weapons? "Yarsy" and "Yarsy-M" are already being installed on the DB, "Rubezhi" are only planned for this year. "Barguzins" will not be on the DB very soon, just like "Sarmatians". Besides, it won't work at any cost. The solid rocket plant is not rubber. So far, more than half a hundred missiles cannot be made. And no one will reduce the time for creation and testing. so as a result you can get such a "miracle" that will be like in the song: "The falling rocket was smoking, and the calculation ran from it ..."

    Quote: Ros 56
    And only individual Russians began to make elements, or already the BZHRK was skating somewhere.

    Ride. In computer presentations.
  34. kmv.km
    kmv.km 13 May 2016 17: 02
    0
    Quote: Old26
    "Yarsy" and so priority. "Barguzins" and "Sarmatians", even with the availability of priority funding, will be put into service in 4 years, not earlier.


    Well, it's great that funding is top priority. Did I really suggest cutting back on development and testing times ??? Or do you think I don’t understand what the "neck race" can turn into ??? I only suggested increasing the pace of production !!! If the plant is not "rubber", then new capacities are needed!

    Quote: Old26
    What's the inflection point? The fact that old boats were replaced with new ones? And "pinless" sorry "Boreas" are exclusively in your brain. Those who serve on them (and already two "Boreas" on the base) and do not know that they have "pinless" boats and they go without ammunition


    Please do not "distort" the meaning of my words !!! I think you perfectly understood what it was about !!! All mines can be filled to capacity with "something", but the likelihood that this "something" will fly and complete the Combat Mission (God forbid, of course, such a task) I consider INSUFFICIENT and this is a sincere opinion "in my brain" say thank you for not writing in "sore". And about new boats - ONLY FOR if the System as a whole can effectively perform the Combat Mission!

    Quote: Old26
    And why did you dislike the Bulava so much?

    And here you are somewhat right, I disliked the Bulava rationally (development time and deplorable test results) and irrational (when I hear the Beautiful Ancient word "Mace", the equally Beautiful Ancient word "Voivode" immediately comes to mind ... And then my "brain" begins to compare the Reliability of Two Word-Systems and their contribution to ensuring the country's security ...)
    But I assure you, I SINCERELY will love the Mace if they "bring it to mind", but just as sincerely I do not believe in it ... (I already wrote in some commentary that I would be glad if I made a mistake

    Sorry, I'll argue a bit later, if you're interested. I will answer your arguments. It affects the lack of time, maybe today, maybe for the weekend hi
  35. Old26
    Old26 13 May 2016 21: 52
    0
    Quote: kmv.km
    Well, it's great that funding is top priority. Did I really suggest cutting back on development and testing times ??? Or do you think I don’t understand what the "neck race" can turn into ??? I only suggested increasing the pace of production !!! If the plant is not "rubber", then new capacities are needed!

    No, they didn’t offer it aloud, but statements like
    These "Barguzinov" and "Sarmatov" and "Yarsov" SHOULD BE FASTER AND MORE !!! AND FIRST FINANCING !!!

    does not say anything? FAST AND MORE
    New capacities are needed, but it takes time, money and personnel (people)

    Quote: kmv.km
    Please do not "distort" the meaning of my words !!! I think you perfectly understood what it was about !!! All mines can be filled to capacity with "something", but the likelihood that this "something" will fly and complete the Combat Mission (God forbid, of course, such a mission) I think is INSUFFICIENT

    Distorting? In what? You called the creation of the Borey-Bulava complex a skew. You, not me. The mines are, of course, filled to capacity, but where did you get your opinion that the probability that it will fly and complete the combat mission is NOT ENOUGH? How is this expressed ??? Sorry, but these are just words and nothing more. They would have written IMHO, otherwise it somehow turns out that too categorical statement.

    Quote: kmv.km
    I disliked Bulava rationally (development time and deplorable test results) and irrationally (when I hear the Beautiful Ancient word "Mace", then at once the no less Beautiful Ancient word "Voivode" comes to mind ... And then my "brain" begins to compare the Reliability of the Two Slov-System and their contribution to the security of the Country ...)

    Look at the development time of other systems, of the same R-36M family, and not only Voevoda, and the number of unsuccessful launches of various systems

    Quote: kmv.km
    But I assure you, I SINCERELY will love the Mace if it is "brought to mind", but just as sincerely I do not believe in it ...

    But they didn’t finish it ???
  36. Ivan Ivanych
    Ivan Ivanych 14 May 2016 14: 39
    0
    Earlier it was planned to put the complex into operation by 2020 g, but last year due to the difficult financial situation in the country, the dates were postponed for more than one year.

    in my opinion, with the adoption of the complex, the financial situation in the country should improve. so do not spare money!
  37. nov_tech.vrn
    nov_tech.vrn 14 May 2016 19: 59
    0
    Good luck!
  38. Gippo
    Gippo 14 May 2016 21: 57
    0
    I think it's time to turn over to the other side. The sofa is tired, he also has the right to rest.
  39. Gippo
    Gippo 14 May 2016 22: 20
    0
    Such a good site with many years of history turned into a garbage can.
    Thanks to the "uryakalka!" And other garden-house - a challenge for the invaluable contribution.
    Here taxes on land in the SNT will be raised 3 times. Did not hear, no?
    Yes, where can you ... but our Crimea and Poklonskaya with a banner.
    We traveled the country again.
    Lord save Russia.
  40. Old26
    Old26 15 May 2016 10: 43
    0
    Quote: Ivan Ivanovich
    Earlier it was planned to put the complex into operation by 2020 g, but last year due to the difficult financial situation in the country, the dates were postponed for more than one year.

    Alas, even in financially "fat" years, the shift in terms "to the right" was frequent and dense. There is a strong impression that those who announce the terms in no way agree with the designers.
    Yes, it’s clear that when creating this complex, some things will be easier to do (the same rocket will not have to be done from scratch, but it’s necessary to use the best practices), but nevertheless the whole complex of tasks requires not only financial injections, but also time-consuming.
    There are many examples, but does it make sense ...