Military Review

America and the truth about the war

129
Almost every year on the eve of Victory Day, Russian journalists conduct peculiar polls on the streets of Europe, Asia and North America, finding out what the locals know about the events of May 1945. As a rule, the results are not impressive. The respondents either find it difficult to answer or say that America won the Nazis in Europe. Few people can confidently answer on which side the Soviet Union fought, or what contribution it made to the Allied victory. This situation is not something new. The USSR also tried to fight the “forgetfulness” of the Western viewer in his own information field. Here, in particular, you can recall the documentary series “Unknown War”, created for the English-speaking viewer in 1978 year. But system work was not conducted even then..




Because of what the role of the USSR in the eyes of the western man in the street so ugly? The first reason, of course, is anti-Soviet propaganda, which has begun to deny the role of the Soviet Union in the liquidation of national socialism since the fifties. It was then that the idea was born that only the United States and Great Britain were at war with the Allies. Russia was mentioned exclusively as a conqueror of nations and a threat to democracy. And if contemporaries of the events of the war could still recall the truth, then the youth no longer. In addition, all this was fueled by Russophobia. To this day, in modern computer games or TV shows, Russians are always “bad guys”, so for many it becomes a discovery that Russia and the USA both world wars were formally on the same side.

The second reason: the propaganda of American exclusivity, which goes back to the XIX century, and if you look, even deeper. According to this ideological setting, the United States is the best country in the world, and its people are chosen by God to dominate the New World and the world as a whole. All other nations in this sense are perceived as either hopelessly lagging behind, or going the wrong way.

From the idea of ​​exclusivity it follows that America possesses all the most significant achievements in the world, in all its spheres. From here, the States ascribe to themselves all conceivable and inconceivable successes. I will give specific examples. For example, in a book for children about space, it is mentioned that Alan Shepard was the first American to go into space. Formally, this is true, but the reader has the impression that he was the first man in space at all, because not a word was said about Gagarin.

Similarly, about the Second World War. The battles for small villages in France or tiny islands in the Pacific Ocean are described as if there was a real Armageddon. About Stalingrad and Kursk - a glimpse. About the other battles of the Soviet troops do not mention at all, as if they were not.

Another example: a source indicated that Berlin was surrounded and taken by storm. And who took? From the context it can follow that it is the Americans, because the authors bring the reader to precisely such conclusions, talking about the movements of the US troops in Germany. Then on the allegations of distortion can be said, they say, I'm sorry, it happened.

In the US, there are two days that are celebrated in connection with the end of the Second World War - this is Victory Day in Europe (VE Day), which is celebrated on May 8, and also Victory Day over Japan (VJ Day), celebrated on September 2. The latter had the status of a federal holiday before 1975, and is now almost imperceptible even at the state level, except for Hawaii and Rhode Island. By the seventies, the generation that had actively participated in the events of the bloody forties began to massively go out of active age, and the memory of the war ceased to be a national event. The generation of “sex, drugs, rock and roll” has grown, for which the central event of life was the Woodstock festival, and not the landing in Normandy or the flag over Iwo Jima. From this point on, the war is increasingly disappearing from cinema and popular culture. In obedience to new trends, the authorities lowered the status of Victory Day to actually a normal day, “firing” him, like a show, whose ratings have fallen. Such is the American reality and mentality.

For the masses in the United States, World War II is only slightly higher than the Korean and Vietnamese wars. Yes, they argue, sadly, many soldiers died. But all this was a long time ago. And far away. What do we care about what was then, they argue. For Americans, the entire Second World War was a very large, but still overseas war. And the overseas war, albeit a large one, occupies, by definition, less space in the public consciousness than the home, albeit a small one. For this reason, the Anglo-American War of 1812 of the Year, about which the rest of the world could hardly hear, is of much greater importance in the American storiesthan both fronts of World War II combined. By 2016, the year in America is not just participants, but even witnesses of those events for obvious reasons, there are less and less. New generations have little interest in what happened many years before their birth. For them, it is much more relevant when the new iPhone model comes out, which will be brought in by a fresh update of Windows 10, as well as a new rapper CD release. Not to mention the fact that American education is a highly specialized thing: a person is taught to be a master in any one area, freeing him from his extra knowledge. History is always politics. And why do people need extra knowledge of politics? Let it better memorizes all the players of the local baseball team!

So the chronicles of 1941-1945 in the States are already perceived more as a heroic myth than real events. Americans who have found the Great Depression and World War II are now called the “Greatest Generation” by the United States, which in itself renders legendary, although the language doesn’t turn back to compare the problems of Americans with what the Soviet people survived. At the same time, the level of real historical knowledge has strongly degraded. No, there are high-profile historians in the United States, but products for the mass audience are far from being created by them, and in the end it turns out to be unimportant. Especially trouble with the cards. So the problem of "girls-designers" is also relevant across the ocean, but on a much more serious level. Samples of the most wild cases could be brought, but it is a pity of time. For the most persistent, I can recommend, for example, the documentary “World War II from Space” - a violent reaction is guaranteed.

For us, citizens of the Russian world, the key moment of national self-perception is Victory Day, when we defeated the greatest enemy and defended the independence of the country. For Americans, this day is July 4 - as a symbol of victory already over their own external enemy on their land. Other nations have similar dates. For example, Turkey celebrates its 30 Victory Day in August in honor of the Battle of Dumlupinar. In the USA, the Second World War did not become such an event for the reason that the enemy did not cause damage to its main territory.

What can we, the Russians, do to advance our truth about the greatest war outside the country? Actually a lot.

First, of course, be confident in their own right and not be shy about it. We stood on the right side of history, although the Soviet people did not want this war and would have done well without it. No apologies to those who applied against us. weapon first can not be.

Secondly. Large-scale events - an important element to the promotion of their own position. Here not only military parades, but also processions of the Immortal regiment, a unique event within the Russian world. The foreign press is forced to write about big events, and it will also have to mention what this event is about. And this is already a small, but achievement: a piece of truth is conveyed to the reader or the viewer on foreign territory. It so happened that RT (Russia Today) and Sputnik do not cover the entire public in the United States or the United Kingdom. In order to get through to other people's TV channels, we need events. Victory Parade is an event. The immortal regiment, too. The latter is also a unique phenomenon of its kind, which in itself attracts the attention of the audience. Only seizing the attention, you can begin to tell the story.

Thirdly. Historical science and sources. When foreign historians study one or another period in the history of a country, they also have to rely on the assessments of local specialists. If the British historian Eric Hobsbaum writes about the last decades of tsarist Russia, he is forced to refer, including to the memoirs of contemporaries, and to later, already Soviet, assessments. Of course, we are talking about professionals like Hobsbaum, and not the various "Russian specialists" from the columns of The Washington Times. Here it is important that historians and eyewitnesses write not because the “party said”, and not for fear, but for conscience. It is necessary to tell the truth, since the truth is hard to dispute, but the truth is not always pleasant.

In this sense, it is possible and necessary to mention that not all of Hitler's allies bear equal responsibility. So, Romania, which attacked us along with the Reich and noted war crimes on the territory of the USSR, bears one responsibility. And Bulgaria, which did not declare war on the USSR, but then fought with us against Germany, is another. The initial criteria of guilt apply to the post-war period. On this basis, it can be said with confidence that the USSR had much more rights to eliminate the insurgency in the GDR and Hungary than the United States and Great Britain to suppress the uprising in Greece.

Fourth. Counter Arguments. With proper construction, you can catch opponents in defamation. For example, on the charges that the USSR was trying to organize puppet states in the occupied territory of Northern Iran, we can recall that the United States and Great Britain did the same with the occupied territory of Denmark, Iceland, where they proclaimed an independent state. But such reactions should be timely and competent, which provides for a certain level of professionalism of the respondents.

The above suggestions are not a program; rather, there are good wishes on which to build a structure if someone wants to develop a theme. But for all this you need a program, funding, systematic work. And most importantly, experts from the history, who will be a popular language to tell the world, what is really Russian truth.
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  1. Andrey K
    Andrey K 12 May 2016 09: 31
    +26
    America and the truth are two incompatible concepts request
    The last of CNN cadres: it got to the point where the respondents claimed that Japan was among the winners of fascism in World War II ... request
    "Russia? Yes, they fought together, they helped us" ...
    The "exceptional nation", for lack of real results, twists history in its favor negative
    1. olegfbi
      olegfbi 12 May 2016 09: 33
      +13
      The United States is the best country in the world, and its people chosen by godto dominate the New World and the world at large

      Rather, elected by the devil !!!
      Orthodox Russia is chosen by God !!!
      1. Alexey-74
        Alexey-74 12 May 2016 10: 40
        +6
        There are two worlds, the West and the Russian world. It has always been and will always be, there is an axis of Evil and Good ... therefore, most likely, until the end of the centuries of human civilization, there will be a confrontation
        1. cniza
          cniza 12 May 2016 11: 52
          +6
          Quote: Alexey-74
          There are two worlds, the West and the Russian world. It has always been and will always be, there is an axis of Evil and Good ... therefore, most likely, until the end of the centuries of human civilization, there will be a confrontation


          It is not regrettable, but it is true and the most interesting that the West cannot live without us, and we can live without them.
        2. The comment was deleted.
      2. Corsair
        Corsair 12 May 2016 13: 17
        +1
        Quote: olegfbi
        Orthodox Russia is chosen by God !!!

        laughing But what about the Jews with the promised land?
    2. svp67
      svp67 12 May 2016 09: 38
      -8
      Quote: Andrey K
      America and the truth are two incompatible concepts

      Can you tell the sailors of the northern convoys?
      1. olegfbi
        olegfbi 12 May 2016 09: 46
        +4
        Quote: Andrey K
        America and the truth are two incompatible concepts
        Can you tell the sailors of the northern convoys?

        I agree with Andrey K, but you are also right!
        Unfortunately, America, or rather its people, of 1945 and modern America are completely different, in every way!
        You +
        1. CONTROL
          CONTROL 12 May 2016 10: 18
          +1
          Quote: olegfbi
          [Unfortunately, America, or rather its people, of 1945 and modern America are completely different, in all respects!

          ... And the "reformatting" of the people from "America of 1945" to "modern America" ​​can be attributed to the late 60s - early 70s of the twentieth century!
          The question is: what control - peak - events occurred during these years that led to such a turn and such a situation today? Or otherwise - what "time bomb", planted earlier (when?) Exploded in those years?
          ... strain, experts on crypto history!
        2. Diana Ilyina
          Diana Ilyina 12 May 2016 10: 19
          +26
          Quote: olegfbi
          I agree with Andrey K, but you are also right!
          Unfortunately, America, or rather its people, of 1945 and modern America are completely different, in every way!
          You +


          Sorry, but America is not a people! America is a country of world capital and the people there never decided anything for themselves. Even the separation of the states from the British crown, this is a decision of a handful of bourgeoisie covered by the alleged actions of the people. What kind of people are we talking about in relation to the United States and America in general ?! There are practically no indigenous people left either in the North or South America, all the rest are descendants of immigrants. And if in Spanish-speaking countries these are the descendants of conquistadors, then in English and French-speaking countries they are the descendants of thieves, murderers and prostitutes from all over the old world! A good people, needless to say, with rich "cultural" and moral traditions!

          So it was not the American people who made the decision to "help" the USSR, but a bunch of spider-oligarchs! Moreover, they "helped" not only us, but also Hitlerite Germany. And this "aid" cost all of Europe and the USSR together in the gold that sailed across the Atlantic and settled in Fort Knox!

          But American sailors did not swim here for the idea, but for quite tangible dollars! You did not forget that literally a few years before 1941 there was a great depression in the USA and people were dying of hunger ?! So there was no help, do not lie, there was a cold calculation and knocking out the dough from Europe! Americans never helped anyone nothing personal just business - America's motto raised to the trillionth degree!

          So stop carrying this nonsense about helping from the USA!
          1. svp67
            svp67 12 May 2016 10: 24
            -4
            Quote: Diana Ilyina
            So there was no help, do not lie, there was a cold calculation and knocking out the dough from Europe! Americans never helped anyone

            Read at your leisure "Tankman in a foreign car" by our officer-tanker Loza, I hope your opinion about the American people will change somewhat during the Second World War.
            1. Diana Ilyina
              Diana Ilyina 12 May 2016 10: 33
              +18
              Quote: svp67
              Read at your leisure "Tankman in a foreign car" by our officer-tanker Loza, I hope your opinion about the American people will change somewhat during the Second World War.


              And here the opinion of our tank officer Loza ?! We have a million of such opinions, including the "officer" of the lieutenant! I have only one indisputable source, my now-deceased grandfather, who went through two wars, so I believe his opinion unconditionally! In his opinion, the help was so-so, tanks ovno, planes like nothing, the only thing is that he praised the Studebakers and the stew! As a warrior, he did not perceive them at all, however, as well as the British and the Poles too!
              1. svp67
                svp67 12 May 2016 10: 38
                -2
                Quote: Diana Ilyina
                here is the opinion of our tank officer Losa ?!

                Because he is the same veteran of that war. Read - understand. And, just pour in obscure phrases like:
                Quote: Diana Ilyina
                ovn tanks, planes like nothing,
                you know does not do you honor. Your dear grandfather, in what troops did you serve?
                My grandfather served in the tank forces that war and he was not so categorical against imported tanks, especially against the Shermans, as well as against the German ones, which he highly appreciated. I remember his phrase that we did not defeat the "comical Germans from our films", but perfectly armed and trained opponents.
                1. Diana Ilyina
                  Diana Ilyina 12 May 2016 11: 04
                  +22
                  Quote: svp67
                  Your dear grandfather, in what troops did you serve?
                  My grandfather served in the tank forces that war and he was not so categorical against imported tanks, especially against the Shermans, as well as against the German ones, which he highly appreciated. I remember his phrase that we did not defeat the "comical Germans from our films", but perfectly armed and trained opponents.


                  Mine was the battery commander of 122 mm howitzers, this is the first thing. Secondly, why should I believe the opinion of your grandfather and not believe my own ?! Thirdly: I also have a cousin who fought, just the T-34 driver! He generally burned three times, shell-shocked, there is no part of the skull after Prokhorovka, presented to the title of hero for saving the wounded commander from a burning tank! Do you think I will believe them or you ?!

                  So how many people have so many opinions. And you will not convince me of your innocence. There is simply an undeniable fact, the United States profited from both world wars and profited precisely from military supplies! The US economy is based on the military-industrial complex, and you can hardly argue with this fact!

                  So I am writing again, DO NOT LIE TO US ABOUT "free" LAND-LIZ, there was no help, there was a banal robbery of other countries!
                  1. svp67
                    svp67 12 May 2016 11: 12
                    -9
                    Quote: Diana Ilyina
                    Do you think I will believe them or you ?!

                    You know, I would be interested in talking to him. And "I do not believe" is a child's game, which I played for the last time half a century ago.
                    Quote: Diana Ilyina
                    DON'T LIE TO US ABOUT "free" LAND-LEASE,

                    Ma'am, you are already crossing all borders. Show me and everyone where I said that?
                    You are LIARS. And I'm already beginning to doubt the rest of your words.
                  2. Lukich
                    Lukich 12 May 2016 12: 04
                    +6
                    Quote: Diana Ilyina
                    I also have a cousin who fought, just a T-34 driver! He generally burned three times, shell-shocked, there is no part of the skull after Prokhorovka,

                    my grandfather is also a T-34 driver. the war began on the Kursk, near Prokhorovka. finished near Warsaw. there was last wounded. and just burned in 3 tanks. it turns out our grandfathers were fellow soldiers. By the way, they were formed in Lipetsk, where I now live. they erected a monument
                    1. Diana Ilyina
                      Diana Ilyina 12 May 2016 12: 25
                      +11
                      Quote: Lukich
                      my grandfather is also a T-34 driver. the war began on the Kursk, near Prokhorovka. finished near Warsaw. there was last wounded. and just burned in 3 tanks. it turns out our grandfathers were fellow soldiers. By the way, they were formed in Lipetsk, where I now live. they erected a monument


                      Well, it’s not a fact that my fellow soldiers, because I started my war in 1941. Then I was near Stalingrad, then I participated in the famous breakthrough of Badanov’s corps at the Tatsinsky airfield, from which they provided the 6th Paulus army surrounded. Then there was Prokhorovka, an explosion tore off the hatch and part of the skull was already hatch, then a long treatment but returned to duty.

                      Grandmother spoke with him, it was impossible to go to the movies about the war. After the shell shock on the Germans and on the movie screen, he attacked!
                      1. Lukich
                        Lukich 12 May 2016 13: 39
                        +3
                        Quote: Diana Ilyina
                        Well, not the fact that fellow soldiers, because my war began in 1941

                        I didn’t put it that way. wanted to say maybe.
                        Quote: Diana Ilyina
                        Then there was Prokhorovka,

                        my grandfather fought the Germans with knives at Prokhorovka. knocked out a German tank, and the crew jumped out. from the machine gun did not get it, it was close, "dead zone" 30m. then they realized that they had to take it back. Well, in the heat of battle, they jumped out with knives. there his commander was stabbed to death. in the carriage there was a girl gunner-radio operator. grandfather said that he fought on a par with the men.
                        Quote: Diana Ilyina
                        Grandmother spoke with him, it was impossible to go to the movies about the war. After the shell shock on the Germans and on the movie screen, he attacked!

                        and mine didn’t really like to talk about war. talking it was very difficult
                  3. Ramzaj99
                    Ramzaj99 12 May 2016 12: 47
                    +7
                    Anyone who considers LEND-LIZ help, I advise you to dig deeper into the topic. And you will simply be stunned by how the USSR was "divorced".
                    By the way, the USSR for all the years of its existence paid LEND-LISA debts, and even at the time of the collapse of the USSR, the debt amounted to more than 2.5 billion dollars.
                    1. Gray brother
                      Gray brother 12 May 2016 17: 07
                      +3
                      Quote: Ramzaj99
                      The USSR was "lit".

                      We would grind the fascists without Lend-Lease, only the price would be higher and it would be measured in lives, not in gold and not in dollars - you need to understand this.
                      On the other hand, of course, the bourgeoisie have different evaluation criteria and they believe that a suitcase of money is everything.
                      I prefer to look at this issue from OUR side.
                2. Corporal Valera
                  Corporal Valera 12 May 2016 12: 19
                  +1
                  Quote: svp67
                  My grandfather served that war in the tank forces and he was not so categorical against imported tanks,

                  That is why they were called "Farewell Homeland" yes
              2. svp67
                svp67 12 May 2016 11: 00
                0
                Quote: Diana Ilyina
                And here is the opinion of our tank officer, Vines ?!

                And what about the opinion of A. Pokryshkin, three times Hero of the Soviet Union? He had a good opinion of American aircraft.
                1. Diana Ilyina
                  Diana Ilyina 12 May 2016 11: 12
                  +20
                  Quote: svp67
                  And what about the opinion of A. Pokryshkin, three times Hero of the Soviet Union? He had a good opinion of American aircraft.


                  And what follows from this ?! Are they more "free" ?! By the way, the American pilots did not like the Airacobra, they simply could not adapt to it and preferred either not to transfer to this plane or spoil it. This is according to their own memories. And ours quite adapted to it, the same Pokryshkin!
                  1. svp67
                    svp67 12 May 2016 11: 19
                    -3
                    Quote: Diana Ilyina
                    And what follows from this ?! Are they more "free"?

                    Madam, it "follows" from this that you are LIE. Will this answer suit you?
                    Quote: Diana Ilyina
                    By the way, American pilots did not like Airacobra,

                    The Americans fought in different conditions, they simply did not need to fight over the battlefield, for a long time their fighters were engaged in escorting their "strategists". And ours fought over the battlefield, and in these conditions, the "Cobras" were quite on the level. The very fact that this American technique, like the Shermans, went to equip our GUARD units already says a lot.
                    1. Diana Ilyina
                      Diana Ilyina 12 May 2016 12: 02
                      +15
                      Quote: svp67
                      Madam, it "follows" from this that you are LIE. Will this answer suit you?

                      The very fact that this American technique, like the Shermans, went to recruit our GUARD units already says a lot.


                      According to the first point: everyone else thinks ur-dd, despite the fact that ur-o-d. (L. Filatov)

                      Listen to you, so without American help we will never defeat Hitler! This is the biggest FALSE suggested to us from behind the puddle, and you are its guide. At least that is the impression.

                      So, this is NOT THE TRUTH! Yes, there were no disputes on Lend-Lease deliveries, and the fact that they made a certain contribution to the victory is also true! BUT this contribution is negligible compared to the contribution of the USSR - this is the TRUTH! And the one who tries to belittle this TRUTH is a traitor! And he first of all betrays the MEMORY of OUR ANCESTORS, the memory of the millions of sacrifices made by the USSR to the altar of victory! It was the USSR that broke the ridge of the fascist beast and no one else!

                      Try to object and then not only me, but I think so, most visitors to this site will call you a liar!
                      1. svp67
                        svp67 13 May 2016 07: 48
                        +1
                        Quote: Diana Ilyina
                        Try to object and then not only me, but I think so, most visitors to this site will call you a liar!

                        Ma'am, I don’t know by whom or what you think you are, but the fact that you are trying to PLACE THE LABELS, completely not understanding the topic, already perfectly characterizes you.
                        You have enough sense only to twist your opponent without anticipating ANY arguments, to attribute to him what he did not say, but I’m already used to this, thanks to the "Ukrainians" they taught me not to react to such provocations. You are NOT ANY BETTER than those who run the "show" now in Kiev, no matter what good goals you pursue.
                        And it turns out that they were LIQUE, so she LEFT.
                        Listen to you, so without American help we will never defeat Hitler! This is the biggest FALSE suggested to us from behind the puddle, and you are its guide.
                        Ma'am, I ascertain the FACTS, they are pleasant or not, but there is a fact of delivery of equipment, the fact of sending it to the MOST prepared parts, too. And if, thanks to you, we will IGNORE this, and even more so HIDDEN, we will get again what we received in the 90s. When the official story is simply ceased to believe.
                        So, why am I there as a guide, we’ll figure it out, but the fact that you are a “guide” of STUPIDITY, which has already ruined my country, can be seen with the naked eye.
                  2. svp67
                    svp67 12 May 2016 11: 39
                    -9
                    Madam, I have your "cons" ... Well, in general, I think you understand. But the fact that you did not answer my question and did not apologize allows me to state once again - YOU ARE LIE. And it turns out that all your words are worthless.
                    1. Diana Ilyina
                      Diana Ilyina 12 May 2016 12: 14
                      +8
                      Quote: svp67
                      Madam, I have your "cons" ... Well, in general, I think you understand. But the fact that you did not answer my question and did not apologize allows me to state once again - YOU ARE LIE. And it turns out that all your words are worthless.


                      Apologize to you ?! You haven’t messed up anything ?!

                      And about the lie, I told you above: everyone thinks uro-d-dm, despite the fact that ur-o-d!

                      P.S. I generally cons to one place, including yours!
                      1. svp67
                        svp67 12 May 2016 19: 41
                        0
                        Quote: Diana Ilyina
                        Apologize to you ?! You haven’t messed up anything ?!

                        Yes, in front of me. You attributed to me those words that I did not say. And now trying to get away from the answer ...
                        Quote: Diana Ilyina
                        And about the lie, I told you above: everyone thinks uro-d-dm, despite the fact that ur-o-d!

                        Though you admit to your ugliness. But you don't have to be so categorical towards yourself. Just tell me, where did I talk about "free lend-lease"?
                      2. Diana Ilyina
                        Diana Ilyina 13 May 2016 00: 36
                        +7
                        Quote: svp67
                        Yes, in front of me. You attributed to me those words that I did not say.


                        Sorry, but throwing beads in front of pigs is not for me! You never say anything to the end, as is customary with our liberals, but at the same time, all your rot goes outside! So you don’t need your liberal promises like: repent, otherwise I’ll damn ... They ran into the wrong one! Your opinion is clearly visible and it is sewn with white thread! And by the way, as Vladimir Semenovich sang: you are dogs and you have a dog’s death ...! Although the dogs are very cute and loyal animals and comparing them is too much a compliment for you! You are not dogs, you are jackals and death to you jackals, American henchmen!
                      3. svp67
                        svp67 13 May 2016 07: 57
                        0
                        Quote: Diana Ilyina
                        You never say anything to the end, as is customary with our liberals, but at the same time, all your rot goes outside!

                        Yes? But you have already spoken so much that you can sue ...
            2. military commissar
              military commissar 12 May 2016 12: 19
              +7
              Sorry, name at least one pilot in America, Britain, France who has achieved the same success in piloting an American aerocobra. As a child, more than once in the aviation museum I heard that our pilots complained about dumping American cars in a flat corkscrew during WWII. Praised only for speed and firepower. But who else in the world has achieved such successes as our Soviet pilots on American fighters? My opinion is that Pokryshkin even on a donkey gave heat to the Asam of the Reich!
            3. Corporal Valera
              Corporal Valera 12 May 2016 12: 22
              +6
              Quote: svp67
              He had a good opinion about American airplanes.

              There is only one "but". They tried not to supply us with good American aircraft.
              1. svp67
                svp67 12 May 2016 19: 43
                0
                Quote: Corporal Valera
                There is only one "but". They tried not to supply us with good American aircraft.

                Read from Pokryshkin what he especially appreciated in the Cobra, and this is the power of the 37 mm cannon, visibility and excellent communication.
                1. Corporal Valera
                  Corporal Valera 12 May 2016 19: 48
                  +4
                  Quote: svp67
                  Read from Pokryshkin what he especially appreciated in the Cobra, and this is the power of the 37 mm cannon, visibility and excellent communication.

                  Yes, I do not dispute the authority of Pokryshkin, I am talking about the fact that in 1941 (before the defense of Moscow) out of 711 delivered machines there were only 11 Cobras, and the remaining 700 were a noble ram, on which our pilots did not dare to fly. And the first Cobra that arrived was disassembled, without those. doc. and with the developed motor resource. Did they want to train us?
                  1. svp67
                    svp67 13 May 2016 08: 01
                    +1
                    Quote: Corporal Valera
                    Did they want to train us?

                    They all had the same. And during the battle for Moscow they JUST DID NOT BELIEVE in us. Why, the German is already near Moscow, so they seem to have helped, but in essence - they sent it according to the principle "on you God, that we don't like it"
      2. 34 region
        34 region 12 May 2016 12: 46
        +9
        Diana Ilyina! 10.19. I also can’t understand what kind of help the USA provided to the USSR? When they hit the crisis in the 29th, we helped them with our orders. Lend-Lease, we also supported their industry. In my opinion, we strongly supported the US economy in the 30s, 40s and 90s. In the 90s they helped them ditching their industry. Another question, who defeated Japan in the 45th? We beat them in a month, and the Americans won !? Nekhilo so! They could not beat them in four years! And here are the winners! And immediately poke their bases there. To be fixed. Another question, the revival of Nazism. Why are Nazi symbols cultivated, and Soviet spread rot? Moreover, at the state level. On this Victory Day, a fervent song sounded on FM radio with the words: penal battalion, detachment, thank you to grandfather for the Victory! It seems like Victory, and Thank you, but somehow unpleasant. hi
      3. svp67
        svp67 13 May 2016 08: 12
        0
        Quote: Diana Ilyina
        But American sailors did not swim here for the idea, but for quite tangible dollars!

        Oh ... Madam, you have just touched on such a topic, which is better and not necessary. That is, you think that they should have done it "for interest". This is reminiscent of the pre-war years and the film "First Strike", where the workers of German factories, clenching their fists under our bombs in greeting "Rot-Front", sang the International, just to take revenge on these damned capitalists. How hard this PROPAGANDA affected us in the first months of the war. When in every German, even an outspoken Nazi, our people saw "a worker or peasant dressed in a soldier's greatcoat." Life quickly weaned it off.
        And you know, our soldiers can be blamed in the same way, because they did the same for every shot down plane, a wrecked tank, a captured machine gun, and a destroyed cannon.
        You know, getting money, this is not a reason to say that business is done only for their sake. But even without them it’s impossible, because it’s necessary to live, to raise children. Communism didn’t come.
        And I advise you to stop throwing populist slogans and be more careful in the expression of thoughts.
  2. Andrey K
    Andrey K 12 May 2016 09: 47
    +18
    I can tell the sailors of the Northern Convoys - thank you guys for the help, for the cars, stew hi
    After the tenth reminder of allied commitments and needs for these funds, and the states were still considering whether to give or not request
    For help thanks to them say don't be shy tell hi
    They defeated fascism, thrashed the Hitlerite machine, on the eastern front. And the seamen of the northern convoys and the brave "Dzh-I", there was no trace there! am
    Raking up the heat with the wrong hands, yes, this is America yes
    Customize technology for warring parties, do business in the blood, yes again - this is America yes
    They managed to get their gesheft from the Hitlerite industry, and to provide us with "help" for gold request
  3. Gray brother
    Gray brother 12 May 2016 10: 07
    +9
    Quote: svp67
    Can you tell the sailors of the northern convoys?

    There are few of them, but there are a lot of average hamburger eaters.
    1. Lukich
      Lukich 12 May 2016 10: 25
      +5
      Quote: Gray Brother
      There are few of them, but there are a lot of average hamburger eaters.

      horror and nightmare (((
      1. Alexey-74
        Alexey-74 12 May 2016 10: 48
        +6
        angry to shame ...
      2. Gray brother
        Gray brother 12 May 2016 11: 06
        +8
        Quote: Lukich
        horror and nightmare (((

        Yes, in principle, do not care what they are there, they remember in their own country and what they don’t remember. This biomass with ersatz education still does not solve anything - their country is so arranged.
        The main thing is that we remember, and their godfathers know that we remember, it will not give them clothes for friends / wise older brothers and then they will not succeed in taking us without resistance, as they like to do.
        That is why all sorts of pro-American scum (domestic by the way and educated, for the most part in the USSR - oddly enough) try to defame the feat of our ancestors and at the same time kiss the point of their American master.
        Thank God that such attempts do not cause anything but disgust, and the peak of this activity (as I think) was already passed in the 90s.
  4. just exp
    just exp 12 May 2016 10: 13
    +7
    who sent our gold to America for "help"?
    or those who tried in the Atlantic to intercept the same "aid" to Germany from the states?
    1. Corporal Valera
      Corporal Valera 12 May 2016 10: 18
      +5
      Quote: just explo
      who sent our gold to America for "help"?

      Yes, and those sailors are almost gone, and the debt for "help" still hangs on us, despite the gold, metals, wood sent through the "reverse lend-lease" ...
      1. svp67
        svp67 12 May 2016 10: 25
        +6
        Quote: Corporal Valera
        and the debt for "help" still hangs on us,

        No, already paid. The latest payments were made at the beginning of 2015.
        1. Corporal Valera
          Corporal Valera 12 May 2016 10: 27
          +1
          Quote: svp67
          No, already paid

          However, the Americans do not think so.
          1. Corporal Valera
            Corporal Valera 12 May 2016 10: 44
            +8
            That's how you start to think that Roosevelt was right in comparing Lend-Lease with a fire hose. Like, I don't need my neighbor to pay for this hose while fighting the fire so that it doesn't spill over to my house. I need a neighbor to return it after. However, continuing this analogy, we get low meanness. This means that the neighbor was burned all over while fighting the fire in his own and neighboring houses, his house was destroyed, his property burned down, he himself is in the hospital, and here he is declared, all so beautiful, the gentleman and demands: "And you pay me, brother, the cost of the hose "
            1. Leto
              Leto 12 May 2016 11: 10
              -6
              Quote: Corporal Valera
              so that a neighbor pays for this hose while fighting a fire, so that he doesn’t spread to my house.

              And how could the "European conflagration" spread to the North American mainland?
              This means that the neighbor was burned all over while fighting the fire in his own and neighboring houses, his house was destroyed, his property burned down, he himself is in the hospital, and here it is declared, all so beautiful, the gentleman and demands: "And you pay me, brother, the cost of the hose "

              The Soviet Union helped the Spanish Communists with weapons; for this, it took 510 tons of gold. Do you think this is the same low meanness?
              1. Corporal Valera
                Corporal Valera 12 May 2016 11: 13
                +5
                Quote: Leto
                And how could the "European conflagration" spread to the North American mainland?

                Ask Roosevelt. In general, there is such a concept in the cap. countries like "corporate interests" that do not end on the American continent
                1. Leto
                  Leto 12 May 2016 11: 31
                  -6
                  Quote: Corporal Valera
                  Ask Roosevelt.

                  Do not burn with desire, too early.

                  Quote: Corporal Valera
                  In general, there is such a concept in the cap. countries like "corporate interests" that do not end on the American continent

                  Following your logic, if Roosevelt was guided by the interests of the American people, he should not have at all entered the meat grinder of the war declaring neutrality.
                  Here I agree with you why the hell an ordinary guy from Oregon (for example) should bleed to die on Omaha beach while a hypothetical Pierre peacefully sniffs after a glass of wine next to his wife.
                  But here Comrade Stalin disagrees with you, because he demanded that the United States arms, strategic materials and the opening of a second front.
                  1. Corporal Valera
                    Corporal Valera 12 May 2016 12: 02
                    +5
                    Quote: Leto
                    Following your logic, if Roosevelt was guided by the interests of the American people, he should not have at all entered the meat grinder of the war declaring neutrality.

                    They got into the meat grinder of the war at that moment when the chance appeared to remain out of work. Prior to this, they successfully fought with the wrong hands on both sides. Including using Lend-Lease.
                    Quote: Leto
                    But here Comrade Stalin disagrees with you, because he demanded that the United States arms, strategic materials and the opening of a second front.

                    Comrade Stalin demanded exactly what they promised him
                  2. Leto
                    Leto 12 May 2016 12: 26
                    -4
                    Quote: Corporal Valera
                    They got into the meat grinder of the war at that moment when the chance appeared to remain out of work. Prior to this, they successfully fought with the wrong hands on both sides. Including using Lend-Lease.

                    Your position is not entirely clear. What doesn’t suit you specifically? The fact of the supply of weapons, equipment and materials and the opening of a second front?
                    Quote: Corporal Valera
                    Comrade Stalin demanded exactly what they promised him

                    Why did he demand that? I would say, "Messrs. Capitalists, I have such a personal dislike for you that I cannot eat," go through the forest with your help and the second front.
                  3. Corporal Valera
                    Corporal Valera 12 May 2016 12: 38
                    +4
                    Quote: Leto
                    Your position is not entirely clear. What doesn’t suit you specifically? The fact of the supply of weapons, equipment and materials and the opening of a second front?

                    I am not happy with the protrusion of the Lend-Lease role to such a size that we would almost lose the war without it. And they are not satisfied with the statement that it was a generous gesture. Vile lies. Calculation and profit, that is what they were guided by. They rekindled their economy on this, not to mention the loot that they cut down.
                    Quote: Leto
                    walk the forest with your help and a second front.

                    Not a serious conversation.
                  4. Leto
                    Leto 12 May 2016 13: 50
                    -4
                    Quote: Corporal Valera
                    I am not happy with the protrusion of the Lend-Lease role to such a size that we would almost lose the war without it.

                    This is undoubtedly a controversial statement, because history does not tolerate subjunctive moods. But to say that without "Lend-Lease, we would have won anyway" the same is not true. You can curse the capitalists' "dastardly calculation" as much as you like, but for example, you can't make a good plane without aluminum, even kill yourself; without alloying additives, steel will be fragile like the Germans who experienced an acute shortage of them, and without vehicles it is extremely difficult to supply troops. It was necessary help without which it would be very difficult and it does not matter the motives of those who provided it.
                  5. Corporal Valera
                    Corporal Valera 12 May 2016 14: 11
                    +1
                    Quote: Leto
                    This was the necessary help without which it would be very difficult and the motives of those who provided it did not matter.

                    If it was unnecessary, then Stalin would not have sought it so. However, things must be called by their proper names. And there are very big questions about the timeliness of deliveries, the required volumes, quality and cost. Small Britain, for example, received aid, in monetary terms, 3 times more. And the debt was written off to her. And the quality of the equipment was better. And this despite the fact that the Soviet Union endured the greatest burden of fighting. In general, "help" is when you help one side, and when both yours and ours, it is no longer help, but business.
                  6. Leto
                    Leto 12 May 2016 15: 06
                    -4
                    Quote: Corporal Valera
                    However, one must call a spade a spade.

                    You reason as a person who believes that everyone around him owes. Answer the simple question, why were the USA obliged to supply the USSR at all?
                  7. Corporal Valera
                    Corporal Valera 12 May 2016 15: 23
                    +4
                    Quote: Leto
                    why were the USA obliged to supply the USSR at all?

                    Because, why, the USSR was supposed to land in Japan.
                  8. Ramzaj99
                    Ramzaj99 12 May 2016 17: 05
                    +4
                    Quote: Leto
                    why were the USA obliged to supply the USSR at all?

                    And they did not deliver. They were selling. These are two BIG differences.
                  9. The comment was deleted.
        2. Leto
          Leto 12 May 2016 12: 35
          -5
          Quote: Corporal Valera
          They got into the meat grinder of the war at that moment when the chance appeared to remain out of work.

          And when, in your opinion, did you realize "to be out of work"?
        3. Corporal Valera
          Corporal Valera 12 May 2016 12: 59
          +7
          Quote: Leto
          And when, in your opinion, did you realize "to be out of work"?

          And when we restored the border of the USSR and transferred hostilities to the territory of Europe. Here they jumped on the division of the pie.
        4. Leto
          Leto 12 May 2016 14: 08
          -5
          Quote: Corporal Valera
          And when we restored the border of the USSR and transferred hostilities to the territory of Europe. Here they jumped on the division of the pie.

          You don't know much about the history of WWII. The second front was actually opened on July 9, 1943, Operation Husky. The allies landed in Sicily, after which the landing took place directly in Italy, which led to her surrender. In Yugoslavia, Italian troops laid down their arms, which was used by the Yugoslav partisans who liberated half of the country, they even had their own fleet. Nothing prevented the landing in Yugoslavia and the beginning of its liberation, half of Italy was liberated, the Mediterranean Sea was completely under the control of the Allies (in contrast to the North Sea). The landing in Yugoslavia is a threat to the rear of Manstein's southern group, it is a guaranteed way out of the war between Bulgaria and Romania, it is an unequivocal flight of the Germans from Greece. This is the death of Hitler in 1944.
        5. Corporal Valera
          Corporal Valera 12 May 2016 14: 52
          +5
          Quote: Leto
          You do not know the history of WWII.

          And I have two options. Either you study history in Ukrainian textbooks, or directly in American. Soros is also an option.
          The decision to create a second front was made by representatives of the USSR, USA and Great Britain after negotiations in London and Washington in May - June 1942. At the Tehran Conference of 1943, the Western Allies pledged to open a second front in May 1944.
          The second front was opened 6 June 1944 of the year.
          As for the Husky, here's a poke
          http://topwar.ru/30900-mozhno-li-schitat-vysadku-soyuznikov-v-sicilii-prichinoy-

          prekrascheniya-germanskoy-operacii-citadel.html
          Particulary
          ... the USSR still did not recognize the Italian direction as a theater for the opening of a second front ...
          ... For the American troops, the landing in Sicily was the first serious test at the European theater of operations, however, the landing on Sicily is not considered the opening of a second front in Europe either by us, or, which is more important in this case, by them, the Anglo-Americans.

          I think our marshals were no more stupid than you.
          But even your statement does not change anything at all. In February 1943, the Battle of Stalingrad ended and the outcome of the war was already clear. When you say "Husky" Started.
        6. Leto
          Leto 12 May 2016 15: 35
          -5
          Quote: Corporal Valera
          And I have two options. Either you study history in Ukrainian textbooks, or directly in American. Soros is also an option.

          According to textbooks, history (superficial knowledge) is studied at school, and I have not been a student for a long time.
          Quote: Corporal Valera
          At the Tehran Conference of 1943, the Western Allies pledged to open a second front in May 1944.

          At the Tehran Conference, Stalin fought against Churchill's Balkan strategy; it was important for him to open a second front in Normandy.
          Quote: Corporal Valera
          As for the Husky, here's a poke

          Let’s without corporal habits. Your link to material that assesses the importance of landing in Sicily and the impact on the Wehrmacht summer company, no more.
          Quote: Corporal Valera
          I think our marshals were no more stupid than you.

          They are military people, a chipmunk said a bird, then a bird. Stalin was personally against the Balkan plan, and here the motives were not strategic at all.
          Quote: Corporal Valera
          In February 1943, the Battle of Stalingrad ended and the outcome of the war was already clear.

          Well now, yes, it's clear. But then, after Stalingrad, Kharkov and Belgorod were again abandoned, there was a boiler near Debaltseve ... In the summer of 1943. nothing was clear. The landing in Italy deprived Germany of an ally, demanded the allocation of troops for the occupation of northern Italy and the organization of defense in the central part. The landing in the Balkans would be a continuation of this operation and defining it as a "second front"; moreover, the Germans in the Balkans did not have serious forces, and the Yugoslav partisan army would help the allies. But Stalin himself hacked to death this second front, so that all claims of "tightening" personally to him.
        7. Corporal Valera
          Corporal Valera 12 May 2016 16: 05
          +2
          Quote: Leto
          According to textbooks, history (superficial knowledge) is studied at school, and I have not been a student for a long time.

          Hmm, and I thought in universities and study textbooks. Although not the point.
          Quote: Leto
          At the Tehran Conference, Stalin fought against Churchill's Balkan strategy; it was important for him to open a second front in Normandy.

          Really! What an eccentric! Churchill did not allow the new zemlyatse to cut and stand in the way of the Red Army. It was necessary to please Churchill's interests.
          Quote: Leto
          Let’s without corporal habits.

          Let us then, too, without corporal habits
          Quote: Leto
          Or do you believe everything written as a child?

          Quote: Leto
          Your link to material that assesses the importance of landing in Sicily and the impact on the Wehrmacht summer company, no more.

          Yes. Agree that in order to stand on a par with the winners, one landing operation is not enough. It’s necessary to open the front.
          Quote: Leto
          They are military people, a chipmunk said a bird, then a bird. Stalin was personally against the Balkan plan, and here the motives were not strategic at all.

          It's amazing how the military ended up in the army! And, of course, the "bloody executioner" strangled the whole initiative. The marshals were afraid to crawl out from under the table and open their mouths, let alone defend Churchill's interests. And the killer was guided exclusively by personal motives. yes Not strategic or political. Not. Yeah.
          Quote: Leto
          Well now it’s clear.

          And then everything was already clear.
  • Lukich
    Lukich 12 May 2016 13: 48
    0
    Quote: Corporal Valera
    In general, there is such a concept in the cap. countries like "corporate interests" that do not end on the American continent

    and Sash has the concept of national interest and national security. so they adapted it to the ruin. only where is the ruin and where is sasha ...
  • Corporal Valera
    Corporal Valera 12 May 2016 11: 36
    +7
    Quote: Leto
    The Soviet Union helped the Spanish Communists with weapons; for this, it took 510 tons of gold. Do you think this is the same low meanness?

    First, we also bought weapons from the United States for gold.
    Secondly, we did not wait for the Spanish Stalingrad to begin real deliveries.
    Thirdly, we did not act according to the principle "God bless you, that doesn't suit me"
    Fourth, there was no information anywhere that Spain had finished paying in 2015.
    And fifth, remind pliz, and what kind of supplies did the USSR supply Franco and how much did it make?
    So whip up.
    1. Corporal Valera
      Corporal Valera 12 May 2016 12: 13
      +4
      Quote: Corporal Valera
      So whip up.

      I was still thinking, do you really think Stalin is such an idiot to return gold to the pro-fascist regime on the eve of the war?
      1. Leto
        Leto 12 May 2016 12: 30
        -6
        Quote: Corporal Valera
        I was still thinking, do you really think Stalin is such an idiot to return gold to the pro-fascist regime on the eve of the war?

        What prevents return now, when there is no trace of a pro-fascist regime?
      2. Corporal Valera
        Corporal Valera 12 May 2016 13: 03
        +2
        Quote: Leto
        What prevents return now, when there is no trace of a pro-fascist regime?

        First, let the French return them, and then we will see. Anyway, we did not declare that it would be gratuitous help. The war itself was on the nose.
      3. Leto
        Leto 12 May 2016 14: 15
        -2
        Quote: Corporal Valera
        First let the French get them back,

        they returned 40 tons of gold.
        Quote: Corporal Valera
        Anyway, we did not declare that it would be gratuitous help.

        So and Americans did not declare it.
      4. Corporal Valera
        Corporal Valera 12 May 2016 15: 46
        +1
        Quote: Leto
        they returned 40 tons of gold.

        And how much did they take? And how much did they put the weapons?
        Quote: Leto
        So and Americans did not declare it.

        You are confusing time here: "declare" and "declare". Please note at what time I am writing:
        1. They claim that it was virtually gratuitous help, not a sale.
  • Leto
    Leto 12 May 2016 12: 28
    -3
    Quote: Corporal Valera
    So whip up.

    The question is simple, you reproach the United States for requiring that money for weapons, while the USSR did the same for the Spaniards. What is the difference?
    1. Corporal Valera
      Corporal Valera 12 May 2016 12: 47
      +4
      Quote: Leto
      The question is simple, you reproach the United States for requiring that money for weapons, while the USSR did the same for the Spaniards. What is the difference?

      I do not blame the United States for this. Let's point by point again.
      1. They claim that it was virtually gratuitous help, not a sale.
      2. They claim that without Lend-Lease we would lose and that the volumes were huge
      3. They violated their own obligations
      4. They sent the same Lend-Lease to Germany
      5. They began normal deliveries and opened the front when the winner loomed clearly
      This is mean! But for the United States - fine yes
      The actions of the USSR, in your example, are fundamentally different
    2. Lankaster
      Lankaster 12 May 2016 14: 19
      -3
      Quote: Corporal Valera
      4. They sent the same Lend-Lease to Germany

      How so? belay Teleported or driven through a secret pipeline?
    3. Corporal Valera
      Corporal Valera 12 May 2016 16: 11
      +1
      Quote: Lankaster
      How? belay Teleported or driven through a secret pipeline?

      So you are funny joking! Come on! On the issue:
      Google "Standard Oil" for a start.
    4. Lankaster
      Lankaster 12 May 2016 16: 30
      -4
      Quote: Corporal Valera
      So you are funny joking! Come on! On the issue:
      Google "Standard Oil" for a start.

      Well googled. Standard Oil in 1911 divided into several small companies winked So what?
    5. Corporal Valera
      Corporal Valera 12 May 2016 16: 37
      +2
      Quote: Lankaster
      So what?

      Google more yes
    6. Lankaster
      Lankaster 12 May 2016 16: 44
      -2
      Quote: Corporal Valera
      Google more yes

      Still googled wink
      http://olt-z-s.livejournal.com/195654.html
    7. Corporal Valera
      Corporal Valera 12 May 2016 16: 49
      +1
      Quote: Lankaster
      Still googled

      Well, that's enough for today.
    8. Lankaster
      Lankaster 12 May 2016 16: 54
      -5
      Quote: Corporal Valera
      Well, that's enough for today.

      Thanks for the advice hi Have a nice trip to the bottom of the toilet love
    9. Ramzaj99
      Ramzaj99 12 May 2016 17: 16
      +2
      They sent the same Lend-Lease to Germany
      How? belay Teleported or driven through a secret pipeline?

      The United States supplied Ford trucks to the German army until 1944. And until 44, they traded high-octane gasoline with Germany for aviation through countries of South America. And besides this, there was active trade in components of explosives and even detonators, and this is not a complete list.
    10. Lankaster
      Lankaster 13 May 2016 09: 03
      -1
      Quote: Ramzaj99
      They sent the same Lend-Lease to Germany
      How? belay Teleported or driven through a secret pipeline?

      The United States supplied Ford trucks to the German army until 1944. And until 44, they traded high-octane gasoline with Germany for aviation through countries of South America. And besides this, there was active trade in components of explosives and even detonators, and this is not a complete list.

      Ford trucks were not delivered to Germany during the war. They delivered it before the war (and not only Ford) and even before the war they started production at home - the Ford Werke AG company in Cologne - so it produced Ford trucks for the Wehrmacht until 1944.
      http://www.kfzderwehrmacht.de/Homepage_english/Motor_Vehicles/Germany/Ford/ford.

      html

      Explain how gas can be delivered to Germany via South America? Who was involved in this, in what way and in what volumes were deliveries made?
    11. Ramzaj99
      Ramzaj99 13 May 2016 12: 37
      +1
      Quote: Lankaster
      Ford Werke AG in Cologne - this is how it produced Ford trucks for the Wehrmacht until 1944.

      1. I do not see the difference between bringing trucks from overseas or producing locally. There is a fact: the American company produced trucks for the German army almost until the end of the 44th.
      2.
      Quote: Lankaster
      Explain how gas can be delivered to Germany via South America? Who was involved in this, in what way and in what volumes were deliveries made ?.

      My typo. Through Latin America.
      Google the American company Standard Oil, you will learn a lot of interesting things.
    12. Corporal Valera
      Corporal Valera 13 May 2016 16: 00
      0
      Quote: Lankaster
      Ford Werke AG in Cologne - this is how it produced Ford trucks for the Wehrmacht until 1944.

      yes 52% owned by US Ford Motor Co, and 6% by English Ford Motor Co.
      But in occupied France, who owned the factory, can you tell me? Or can it be closed? And in Algeria?
      Quote: Ramzaj99
      Google the American company Standard Oil, learn a lot of interesting things

      SchA tovarisch will tell us about the holy Americans, about how the Germans sank the tanker "Standard Oil" by hundreds and that there was no smuggling of fuel at all, well, or in insignificant quantities yes I took a notebook, prepared to write
    13. Lankaster
      Lankaster 13 May 2016 19: 52
      +1
      I better read the true corporal tale of the evil Americans who delivered mountains of technology and oceans of oil to Germany and, of course, there will be a full alignment with all the routes and numbers yes

      It’s also interesting how the United States could close the Ford plant in Germany during the war. Probably corporally threaten the Germans with a finger and they would immediately stop the production of trucks for their army lol
    14. Corporal Valera
      Corporal Valera 14 May 2016 00: 35
      0
      Quote: Lankaster
      corporal novel

      Quote: Lankaster
      corporal threaten

      Come on, pour it tighter! The word "corporal" is salvation in this situation! laughing Commas can still be counted yes
      Quote: Lankaster
      It’s also interesting how the United States could close the Ford plant in Germany during the war.

      Very silly or what? I’ll put a plus out of pity hi
    15. Lankaster
      Lankaster 14 May 2016 08: 15
      -1
      Your village trolling amuses, come on, Valera! good
  • The comment was deleted.
  • Leto
    Leto 12 May 2016 14: 36
    -4
    Quote: Corporal Valera
    1. They claim that it was virtually gratuitous help, not a sale.

    The way it is. Only that which survived was paid. They put us at 160 billion, and paid 0,7 billion, not even one percent will be. Profitable sale?
    Quote: Corporal Valera
    2. They claim that without Lend-Lease we would lose and that the volumes were huge

    Controversially, I already wrote about this. But the size really was huge. Take for example the volume of aluminum delivered, where would we take so much more?
    Quote: Corporal Valera
    3. They violated their own obligations

    Which ones?
    Quote: Corporal Valera
    4. They sent the same Lend-Lease to Germany

    Before Germany declared the US war, there were no obstacles to mutual trade, especially by private companies. The United States is a capitalist state in which private companies can trade with anyone, if the state does not impose restrictions.
    Quote: Corporal Valera
    5. They began normal deliveries and opened the front when the winner loomed clearly

    Honestly, they could do nothing at all, do you have any complaints against Argentina for not helping the USSR during WWII?
    Regarding the second front, I already wrote, it was actually opened in 1943.
  • Corporal Valera
    Corporal Valera 12 May 2016 16: 23
    +2
    Quote: Leto
    The way it is. Only that which survived was paid.

    Sit even tighter. There were slightly different conditions. I'll wait.
    Quote: Leto
    They delivered us 160 billion.

    Why not trillions? Solzhenitsyn's laurels do not give rest?
    Quote: Leto
    Which ones?

    Take pity on me. And the server. Briefly: in terms of volume, timing and quality.
    Quote: Leto
    Before Germany declared the US war, there were no obstacles to mutual trade,

    After the announcement too
    Quote: Leto
    a capitalist state in which private companies can trade with anyone, if the state does not impose restrictions.

    That is yes. Give these vampires free rein and they will bring cartridges
    Quote: Leto
    Honestly, they could do nothing at all, do you have any complaints against Argentina for not helping the USSR during WWII?

    No, they could not. Argentina did not claim to be a superpower.

    Quote: Leto
    With regards to the second front, I already wrote, it was actually opened in 1943

    So do I. The landing operation is not the front. Moreover, the Saxons recognize this.
  • Ramzaj99
    Ramzaj99 12 May 2016 17: 29
    +3
    Quote: Leto
    The way it is. Only that which survived was paid. They put us at 160 billion, and paid 0,7 billion, not even one percent will be. Profitable sale?

    This is where you got such data.)))
    But nothing for a moment, that the entire reserve of platinum was exported from the USSR (which the USSR did not know how to use at that time and only mined). Almost the entire stock of gold. And nonsense about 0.7bn you dreamed in a dream ????
    Let it be known to you that at the time of the collapse of the USSR, the country owed America $ 2.5 billion in Lend-Lease debt, after the collapse and concessions by gay Gorbachev, the debt was reduced to $ 750 million. And payments are still underway, and are calculated until 2030. (There was information that the debt was repaid ahead of schedule, I can’t but confirm, not refute).
    In addition to all this, under the agreement, the USSR was obliged to return ALL the equipment and materials they supplied that they did not manage to use at the time the war ended. And almost all returned, by the way, paid back. And this at a time when every nail was counted in the country, and pin.dos defiantly stuffed all this equipment under the presses, specially brought for such a thing, before the eyes of mechanics crying from impotence.
  • Corporal Valera
    Corporal Valera 12 May 2016 18: 39
    0
    Quote: Ramzaj99
    There was information that the debt was repaid ahead of schedule, I can’t but confirm, do not refute

    The debt was to the Paris Club (debts to governments) and to the London Club (private banks). Before the Paris Club repaid in 2015. Before London - I don’t know
  • The comment was deleted.
  • kotvov
    kotvov 12 May 2016 11: 59
    +5
    And how could the "European conflagration" spread to the North American mainland?
    could not only spread, but sweep away this “democratic” education. if it weren’t for the Soviet Union to be the first to hit Britain, but then the United States and its stray. take an interest in what weapons Hitler’s scientists developed.
  • svp67
    svp67 12 May 2016 10: 44
    -2
    Quote: Corporal Valera
    However, the Americans do not think so.

    There is data from the Paris Club of Creditors, everything is clearly spelled out ...
    1. Corporal Valera
      Corporal Valera 12 May 2016 10: 46
      +2
      Quote: svp67
      There is data from the Paris Club of Creditors, everything is clearly spelled out ...

      That is yes. But there are attempts to count at the rate of the time
  • kotvov
    kotvov 12 May 2016 11: 50
    +2
    Can you tell the sailors of the northern convoys ?,
    do you think in America itself someone remembers at least about them?
  • Corsair
    Corsair 12 May 2016 13: 29
    +1
    Quote: svp67
    Can you tell the sailors of the northern convoys?

    what then if they beat you seven, and a neighbor will offer to buy a montage from him, so as to somehow brush it off - is this a big blessing?
    Northern convoy is not help in its purest form, but a solid gesheft.
    Do not forget about the bombing by our amers already in Germany, and so our fighters only drove away, about Stalin’s command to help the amers and extra casualties among ours because of the rush.
    These jugglers were promoted in the war and warmed up with gold, do not indulge in the most, while others were fighting for life - they raised their economy and industry on "other people's investments." That’s where the feast was during the plague in Europe.
  • oldzek
    oldzek 12 May 2016 13: 37
    +1
    more precisely: the ruling America and the truth are two incompatible concepts IMHO
  • Vend
    Vend 12 May 2016 09: 45
    +4
    All propaganda is designed for ordinary people who are most often superficially interested in history. However, they "know" that a lot is hidden in the special archives and classified. That's when books like "Icebreaker" and the hedgehog appear with them, people start to think, here they dug up the truth. Such "truth seekers" always have powerful Western funding, which is something that many adequate historians cannot.
    1. svp67
      svp67 12 May 2016 09: 50
      +4
      Quote: Wend
      people begin to think, they have unearthed the truth.

      Not just TRUE, but FORBIDDEN TRUTH. And what is sweeter than the "forbidden fruit"? Especially for the young, with their rebellious spirit. Therefore, I repeat, the difficult moments of history should not be avoided; they should always be told and explained.
  • volot-voin
    volot-voin 12 May 2016 10: 02
    +6
    Quote: Andrey K
    "Russia? Yes, they fought together, they helped us" ...
    The "exceptional nation", for lack of real results, twists history in its favor

    It is also interesting how the United States would behave, if God forbid, we would lose at Stalingrad? After all, the fact that they sold weapons to both ours and yours is equally beneficial. Wouldn’t come an hour to share Russia with Hitler?
  • Alexey-74
    Alexey-74 12 May 2016 10: 38
    +3
    modern youth in Japan thinks that Hiroshima and Nagasaki were bombed by the Soviet Union ... what ....
  • g1v2
    g1v2 12 May 2016 11: 33
    +4
    The reason is simple. For the United States, Hitler and Saddam Hussein are the same figures - a dictator somewhere overseas, whom JI defeated. If you ask an American who was worse, Hitler or Milosevic, then xs what they will answer. request
    For Europe, Hitler was simply a conqueror such as Napoleon or some Alexander the Great. Therefore, volunteers from all over Europe flocked to him - sort of like a lucky leader. The concentration camps were not particularly advertised, but considering that the British organized the concentration camps for the Boers, then there is nothing strange for Europe either.
    But the Nazis wanted to physically destroy us, leaving only a certain amount to work for the German master. It was his conquest of the wild west, where the natives lived - the Slavs. He dreamed of doing the same as the Britons did with the Indians - to exterminate the main part, having driven the remnants into the reservation. The Americans won the smallpox infected with smallpox to the Indians tossed up to kill them, and Hitler simply slaughtered the Slavs to free up living space.
    He purposefully exterminated the Jews, since he considered them evil, so for the Jews it was an absolute horror.
    As a result, on May 8–9, America celebrates the victory over the dictator somewhere in Europe, Europe - the liberation from the conqueror, we - the victory over the attempt to colonize us, enslave and kill, and the Jews - the salvation from extermination. This holiday is different for everyone, there is no point in hysteria over the fact that Europe does not understand us. We know that we are celebrating and this is our holiday. hi
  • svp67
    svp67 12 May 2016 09: 32
    +4
    Yes, with our "education" we would not slide down to the level of the Americans.
    What can we Russians do to advance our truth about the greatest war outside the country?
    First of all, we ourselves should study our history and not be afraid that there are many difficult moments in it that cannot be understood right away and cannot be easily explained.
  • ImPerts
    ImPerts 12 May 2016 09: 34
    +10
    It will take 20 years and an American schoolboy will argue that Hitler and the 3rd Reich were defeated by Captain America. We also have similar "experts" in history. Unfortunately. as well as professional interpreters working out their grants.
    Still, I am for a single history textbook. Different interpretations can be found in additional materials. As a way of illuminating an alternative point of view. And here the role of historians is enormous. If they again refer to the "Gulag Archipelago" as a historical document, then there will be shame and shame.
    1. kotvov
      kotvov 12 May 2016 12: 02
      +2
      ... We also have similar "experts" of history. Unfortunately. as well as professional interpreters working out their grants,
      Yes, take Chubais, the brother of an effective manager. That’s what he says.
  • DenZ
    DenZ 12 May 2016 09: 38
    +5
    I agree with the author of the article, we need to timely and correctly respond to slander. And here the efforts of the Foreign Ministry alone may not be enough. No need to get lost it had to be done yesterday.
    1. svp67
      svp67 12 May 2016 10: 02
      +6
      Quote: DenZ
      I agree with the author of the article, we need to timely and correctly respond to slander. And here the efforts of the Foreign Ministry alone may not be enough

      Yes, it is not enough, it is necessary to connect everyone here, so that there are no more such "congratulatory posters" for Victory Day, as in Kaluga
  • Arkan
    Arkan 12 May 2016 09: 40
    +10
    America is the truth about war.


    Already in the title of the article there is an antithesis. True and America, things are not compatible in principle. American Exclusivity = Fascism.
    1. svp67
      svp67 12 May 2016 09: 46
      +4
      Quote: Arkan
      American Exclusivity = Fascism.

      But I do not agree. American Exclusivity = IMPERIALISM. USA now - EMPIRE in its purest form.
      1. DMB_95
        DMB_95 12 May 2016 10: 08
        +5
        Quote: svp67

        But I do not agree. American Exclusivity = IMPERIALISM. USA now - EMPIRE in its purest form.

        Imperialism is based on Military Superiority. And "American exceptionalism" implies their superiority over everyone as a nation, not just military. And this is fascism. Imperial fascism.
      2. kotvov
        kotvov 12 May 2016 12: 04
        +2
        But I do not agree. American Exclusivity = IMPERIALISM. USA now - EMPIRE in its purest form. ,,
        at the same time they use, including fascist methods.
  • techie
    techie 12 May 2016 09: 44
    +6
    America is such a Hoffmann baby Tsahes, who is credited with other people's achievements, and whose schools are attributed to others. What is surprising if Japanese youth (and not only Japanese) already believe that the Soviet Union dropped atomic bombs on Japanese cities, and the Americans saved the world from Stalin and Hitler, operating in the same harness. This nonsense heads are clogged around the world. But God marks the assault. I would like to believe that America will be rewarded for all this filth.
  • sergo1914
    sergo1914 12 May 2016 09: 46
    +10
    The American view of history is well illustrated in the HISTORY's documentary miniseries World Wars. The series was released in 2014. Freshak. In addition to historians (American, of course), politicians, senators (and McCain), the military (and the one that also lit up with the test tube) are speaking. The sane idea in the series is only one (in my opinion) - there were not two world wars, but there was one war with a short break.
    Here are some pearls from it.
    Churchill wanted to invade Russia through Gallipoli (Gallipoli, Karl) in order to prevent a separate peace between Russia and Germany. In how.
    Literally the next frame. Russia and Germany are already enemies. The Germans send Lenin to Switzerland from Russia in a famous carriage with $ 10 million (to Russia with dollars ... this is typical for 1917). At the station of Lenin, Stalin meets, they buy rifles with this money, go to Zimny ​​and overthrow the Tsar (Tsar, Karl, Lenin and Stalin, together, with rifles !!!)
    The appearance of the Germans at their own borders in 1945 is strongly argued. You will never guess. This must be watched. Viewing removes any illusions about the United States.

    PS It's like Rezun's "Icebreaker". It is imperative to read, vomit, get immunity.
  • Absurdidat
    Absurdidat 12 May 2016 09: 47
    +2
    It is necessary to distribute their grant-eaters around the world. :)
  • Yak-15
    Yak-15 12 May 2016 09: 49
    +5
    The Yankees, together with other "enlightened" countries of Europe, organized the Second World War and are now climbing into the main winners. The hucksters who entered the war in the second half of the 44th. when their help was already needed, like a dead poultice. What these allies were like, they clearly showed the Ardens in March 45th !!!! when the German pressed them, and they asked for help from the Soviet command, so they had to start the Berlin operation two weeks earlier, which entailed additional victims from the USSR. But to bomb the cities of West Germany with carpet bombing, here they are masters and to enter Paradise on someone else's member, they are also great masters.
  • Zomanus
    Zomanus 12 May 2016 09: 49
    +7
    In fact, in World War II, all of Europe fought against us.
    America and England just watched.
    Help began when they realized that Hitler would not stop at us.
    What can they say about World War II? Yes nifiga.
    1. Strezhevchanin
      Strezhevchanin 12 May 2016 10: 34
      0
      Quote: Zomanus
      Help began when they realized that Hitler would not stop at us.

      It is interesting that it prevented the first to take the industrial potential of England, along with a gold reserve, with the North Sea routes for half a year or a half month. I left it for dessert and climbed to the bear’s lair, so I acted in American, tried everything possible and at the end did the only thing right?
  • Leto
    Leto 12 May 2016 10: 02
    -1
    What did the author want? What significance do events on the continent of Eurasia have for the inhabitants of the continents of North and South America? What, in Brazil or Uruguay, do people know about World War II (except for those of course who fled there from Europe at the end of the war) more than in the USA? Do Mexicans think the war between Germany and the USSR is more important than the war between Mexico and the USA?
    Moreover, they are not particularly interested in events in Europe (en masse), they don’t really care who won there and why.
    Yes, for us, for the inhabitants of Europe, it was a terrible war, the terrible and bloody consequences of which we feel now, but for the rest of the world these are just side events far from always interesting. The Chinese massacre in Nanjing will always cause heartache and hatred of the Japanese, but the Auschwitz crematorium is nothing more than an excursion object for them, is it worth it to blame them?
    No matter how much the domestic agitprop does not remind the whole world of the role of the USSR in the victory over Germany, nothing will change much.
  • tommy717
    tommy717 12 May 2016 10: 05
    +5
    Nevertheless, new storytellers-Ukrainians will give odds to the Americans. These lie, they lie. It seems that they themselves sacredly believe their bullshit. Then today the news flashed that our government allowed the Ukrainians to import salt into Russia. Wang, that there will be stories on the Censor about how we became so impoverished that we ran out of salt and matches.
  • Volksib
    Volksib 12 May 2016 10: 17
    +4
    Another thing is that America is tired of "overseas" wars. Trump's results confirm this. The quality of the recruited contingent in the US Armed Forces leaves much to be desired. There is no call. Already, "homeopaths" serve and nothing. And veterans crippled on the streets Homeland is somewhere far away, it is becoming more and more. Trump is a billionaire and understands something. We are "brothers" in the USSR, thanks for the schools, factories, ships, literacy ... and so on, they said. And now they are zealous members of NATO. Yes, and the "comrades" in the CMEA are not very grateful. For Warsaw alone, 300000 Soviet soldiers died.
  • Korvus
    Korvus 12 May 2016 10: 44
    +2
    “What can we Russians do to advance our truth about the greatest war outside the country? In fact, a lot.

    First, of course, be confident in your innocence and not be shy about it. We stood on the right side of history, although the Soviet people did not want this war and would have managed well without it. There can be no apology to those who used weapons first against us.

    Secondly. Large-scale events - an important element to the promotion of their own position. Here not only military parades, but also processions of the Immortal regiment, a unique event within the Russian world. The foreign press is forced to write about big events, and it will also have to mention what this event is about. And this is already a small, but achievement: a piece of truth is conveyed to the reader or the viewer on foreign territory. It so happened that RT (Russia Today) and Sputnik do not cover the entire public in the United States or the United Kingdom. In order to get through to other people's TV channels, we need events. Victory Parade is an event. The immortal regiment, too. The latter is also a unique phenomenon of its kind, which in itself attracts the attention of the audience. Only seizing the attention, you can begin to tell the story.

    Thirdly. Historical science and sources. When foreign historians study a particular period in the history of the country, they have to rely, among other things, on the assessments of local experts. If the British historian Eric Hobsbaum writes about the last decades of tsarist Russia, then he is forced to refer, among other things, to the memoirs of his contemporaries and to later, already Soviet, assessments. Of course, we are talking about professionals like Hobsbaum, and not the different “specialists in Russia” from the columns of The Washington Times. It is important here that historians and eyewitnesses write not because the “party said”, and not for fear, but for conscience. It is necessary to tell the truth, since it is difficult to challenge the truth, but the truth is not always pleasant ...

    "

    I can add one more point, which is very important for consolidating the Victory in the mass consciousness, especially of young people - "The most important of the arts for us is cinema." It is necessary to shoot as many high-quality, interesting, patriotic films as possible, because the theme of the Second World War is inexhaustible - the exploits of Dmitry Ovcharenko, Nikolai Sirotinin, the sailor Kaida and countless others! But alas, cinema is now working against our country because of the state, that is, at our expense, countless vysyors are removed (sorry, there is no other word) - "Disorder" by Barin Migalkov, "They fought for Katya" (I went to the premiere "Stalingrad" in the movies and wanted to see the battle, and was shocked by what he saw - well, I am not interested in "relationships" like in "House-2" and that "In India, all whores have 6 hands!"), "Black Sheep" and so on. But the film "Saving Private Rain" is a film masterpiece that you want to watch over and over again, and it is unlikely that many of the young viewers will question its reliability, and they will have a mindset for the victory of an "exceptional" nation ... And we are left with only Soviet films, the great ones, of course ("Only old men go to battle," etc.), but we cannot always "ride" them. Why, then, are we indignant that young people urinate on the Eternal Flame?
    1. Yak-15
      Yak-15 12 May 2016 10: 54
      0
      You have stated everything very well and correctly here. There is just one small "but". All this can be done if there is an interest in it. Looking at how the filthy Yankees pour their slop on Russia, you can immediately see their simply vital interest and, accordingly, some kind of sluggish reaction to this on our part. Doubt arises whether this is due to thoughtlessness, or is it criminal negligence.
    2. The comment was deleted.
  • Kibl
    Kibl 12 May 2016 10: 56
    +1
    Why take a poll there, don’t go to a fortuneteller! Everyone on planet Earth was defeated only by the Yankees, starting from the Punic Wars and Ancient Rome, and in the Universe, everyone was defeated. Therefore, it is so quiet and calm as in a cemetery !!! Glory to the American system Education and the Ministry of Propaganda !!!
  • Leeder
    Leeder 12 May 2016 11: 05
    +2
    Quote: Andrey K
    America and the truth are two incompatible concepts

    Well, why ... if it is to their advantage ... smile
  • Yak-15
    Yak-15 12 May 2016 11: 28
    -1
    [media = http: // https: //www.youtube.com/watch? v = rW1SJIZCk1U & spfreload = 10]
  • Altona
    Altona 12 May 2016 11: 42
    +3
    There is such an English channel History (History) and the American Discovery. Air battles in the Pacific Ocean are colorfully shown there in color film. Like Zero fighters, engulfed in flames, they fall to the deck of an American aircraft carrier or destroyer. As a brave Yankee pushes a surrendering Japanese into the shoulder. Or it is shown how Matilda rush through the desert to Rommel. And about the Red Army, only a few frames of black and white film and a small commentary about Stalingrad. Now the West is trying a new concept. Not giving history at school, but replacing these hours with programming. It seems like the benefits and brains are not occupied with "unnecessary" information. By the way, there are some interesting films about the war with Japan. Just now I watched the American running champion end up in a Japanese concentration camp. Forgot the name, based on real events. So the Americans from Hollywood have a lot.
  • PValery53
    PValery53 12 May 2016 11: 51
    +1
    On a European TVD during the WWII, the Germans fought the whole of Europe and them, and the United States at that time pounded around pears, by and large. And now the USA is hysterically beating themselves in the chest (coughing) that they did all this. Oh well!.
  • Dillinjer
    Dillinjer 12 May 2016 12: 39
    0
    In no case should one detract from the significance of the Victory of both the USSR and our allies. Of course, we took the brunt of Nazi Germany, and our fathers and grandfathers heroically fought for their homeland. But it would have been much harder to repulse the blow if Germany had not opened a second front with England, and the United States would not have helped financially. Also, when we began to liberate Europe, the Americans took over Normandy and Italy. American air bases were located in the Far East in order to repel a strike from Japan along with our bases. Neither us nor the Americans should forget their story.
    1. Altona
      Altona 12 May 2016 17: 43
      +1
      Quote: Dillinjer
      In no case should one detract from the significance of the Victory of both the USSR and our allies.

      ---------------------
      Nobody belittles the contribution of the allies. Supply of military equipment, railway, air, machine tools, rolled metal, aviation gasoline, food. Also a feat of sailors and pilots who risked their lives against an insidious enemy. But the USSR "grinded" 75% of the military machine of Reich and in two weeks defeated the millionth Japanese group. And the US leadership behaved despicably. Delayed the Second Front, conducted separate negotiations with Reich. Even with their own allies - Canadians, Australians, Poles. Poles and Canadians were thrown into the hottest battles for Italy, and were "liberated" from the liberation of Rome. The Americans themselves entered there, and without encountering any serious resistance. Well, Canadians and Poles come out as "helped".
      1. Dillinjer
        Dillinjer 12 May 2016 22: 26
        0
        I partially agree with you, and for the most part it was just that. But now, unfortunately, facts are often substituted in history. And that saddens the most.
    2. Ramzaj99
      Ramzaj99 12 May 2016 17: 52
      +1
      Quote: Dillinjer
      if Germany hadn’t opened a second front with England,

      Germany fought with England (mostly in the air) even before the attack on the USSR.
      1. Dillinjer
        Dillinjer 12 May 2016 22: 24
        0
        Typo, I meant that the war goes on 2 fronts.
  • TOZ-34
    TOZ-34 12 May 2016 13: 22
    +1
    In order to convey the truth, it is necessary to have an instrument (broadcasting company, publishing house) that will do this. And who are listening. To make the product that will be read and listened to.
  • Igor V
    Igor V 12 May 2016 13: 24
    +1
    America, as well as some other countries (Sweden, for example), made good money in world wars. And in the post-war period, it simply became rich, planted Europe on a dollar needle, and then half the world. So it’s a sin for her to complain about world wars, moreover, America believes that all wars should be in her interests. Hence the bloodthirsty politics.
  • Friends
    Friends 12 May 2016 14: 20
    +2
    Quote: Ramzaj99
    Anyone who considers LEND-LIZ help, I advise you to dig deeper into the topic. And you will simply be stunned by how the USSR was "divorced".
    By the way, the USSR for all the years of its existence paid LEND-LISA debts, and even at the time of the collapse of the USSR, the debt amounted to more than 2.5 billion dollars.


    With tongue removed. I also read this - more than once.

    At the same time, the Soviet Union paid for LAND-LIZ with gold.

    The US never gives anything, for free. And they take, as a rule, more valuable than they give. And many times more.

    The principle has been worked out even on the indigenous population of America. The Native American leaders also thought that the good uncles from Washington would benefit them ...
    1. Lankaster
      Lankaster 12 May 2016 14: 28
      -4
      Quote: Friends
      With tongue removed. I also read this - more than once.

      At the same time, the Soviet Union paid for LAND-LIZ with gold.

      The US never gives anything, for free. And they take, as a rule, more valuable than they give. And many times more.

      The principle has been worked out even on the indigenous population of America. The Native American leaders also thought that the good uncles from Washington would benefit them ...

      You have now set Stalin with the Indian leaders on the same level ... lol It turns out that he did not have the mind to abandon the unnecessary help of the damned Washington capitalists.
  • Friends
    Friends 18 May 2016 12: 04
    0
    I did not speak about the uselessness of LAND-LISA.

    I said that LAND-LIZ was not free aid. And to perceive it as an act of love, friendship and sacrifice, on the part of the United States, is at least wrong.

    He recalled the Indians as a vivid and rather distant - in time - illustration of the principle of "give for a penny - take for a million" (relatively speaking) by which, as a rule, the United States acts.
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