"Admiral Grigorovich" began the transition to Sevastopol

Today, the frigate “Admiral Grigorovich” left the base in Baltiysk and began an inter-fleet transition to a permanent place of deployment in Sevastopol, reports RIA News the press service of the Ministry of Defense.

“The readiness of the ship for the inter-fleet crossing on the eve was checked by a commission of the Main Command of the Navy under the leadership of the Deputy Commander-in-Chief of the Russian Navy, Vice Admiral Alexander Fedotenkov,” the message reads.

“By order of Admiral Korolev, the Commander-in-Chief of the Russian Navy, we checked the professional level of the crew’s training, the readiness of the material and technical part for the inter-fleet crossing. The ship is ready to fulfill the task of moving to a permanent base on the Black Sea Fleet, ”the press service of Fedotenkov quotes.

It is noted that the "frigate" Admiral Grigorovich "will arrive at the main base of the Black Sea fleet, the city of Sevastopol, at the end of May. "

Comments

[Korney84]

Fair wind and seven feet under the keel !!!

[Michael67]

Hooray!
KChF replenished. Well, just a holiday.
On vacation, try to get on board.
Congratulations to all. Great news.

[Dmitry 2246]

Good luck. We wait.

[Alexey-74]

From the bottom I join !!!!

[30BIS]

Five years ago, all this news was from the category of science fiction. Sevastopol is again a part of Russia! A new combat warship makes the transition from the Northern Fleet to the Black Sea Fleet. Five years ago, introducing a new armored personnel carrier into the fleet was a problem .. Ukraine (fraternal) rested with all its might .. Everything passes ... You just need to wait and want it right! This (fraternal) Ukraine will also pass.

[GSH-18]

"Admiral Grigorovich" began the transition to Sevastopol

They are waiting for him at the Black Sea Fleet!
Today I went to work in Adler on "Swallow"
(damn traffic jams), a warrant was sent along the coast from watchdogs (they drove our Sochi to raids) And apparently they came from Sevastopol from larger ones (not our Sochi), they are 5-8 kilometers from the coast ... I’m thinking what would it be ? In general, Shinzo Abe meets with Putin in Sochi ... Or maybe not for that ... I have not seen such an amount for a long time.

[Tusv]

Quote: GSH-18

I think, why would it? In general, Shinzo Abe meets with Putin in Sochi ... Or maybe not for that ...

A more worthy occasion is the Victory Parade.

I haven’t seen such a number for a long time

The more "partners" bullish, the more grandiose the Parade. Well, so that the sultaninishko chooses the most fashionable couturier for sewing "edible" ties

[GSH-18]

Quote: Tusv

A more worthy occasion is the Victory Parade.
I haven’t seen such a number for a long time

The more "partners" bullish, the more grandiose the Parade. Well, so that the sultaninishko chooses the most fashionable couturier for sewing "edible" ties

I'd like to think that there will be no naval war. Although I am personally ready at any time and by order, albeit in stock! The naval forces of the Russian Federation in the Black Sea visually impress the Sochi holidaymakers with their numbers and real, visible POWER! At the 2014 Olympics, on the Sochi raid (after the Syrian company everyone knows) our handsome flagship of the Black Sea Fleet Guards Strike Missile Cruiser Moskva with its newest hypersonic anti-ship missiles P-1000

[adept666]

with its latest hypersonic RCC P-1000

Volcano is not a hypersonic rocket.

[GSH-18]

Quote: adept666

with its latest hypersonic RCC P-1000

Volcano is not a hypersonic rocket.

You are behind. The P-800 "Onyx" was already hyper (the main caliber of the Cruiser "Moskva" 91-2004). And the P-1000, well figure it out for yourself?

[adept666]

You are behind. The P-800 "Onyx" was already hyper (the main caliber of the Cruiser "Moskva" 91-2004). And the P-1000, well figure it out for yourself?

Onyx is the same supersonic anti-ship missile system as P-700 (Granite), P-500 (Basalt), P-270 (Mosquito) and Onyx has never been GK 1164 of the project, this can be said to be a new rocket, before that P-500 ( Basalt). P-1000 is the same P-500 in new clothes and with new brains. Their performance characteristics are practically the same. Although hypersound is part of the supersonic regime, it starts from about> 5 max and there is a completely scientific explanation for this. To date, from serial / pre-production products, Zircon flies somewhere within these limits (being tested) and everything (other prototypes).

[severyanin]

Quote: GSH-18

You are behind. The P-800 "Onyx" was already hyper (the main caliber of the Cruiser "Moskva" 91-2004). And the P-1000, well figure it out for yourself?

Here you are stubborn (or stubborn ????) Google to help you, so as not to disgrace your "great" knowledge
A quote from Wiki, especially for you: P-1000 “Volcano” (Navy URAI Index (missiles): 3М70) - Soviet / Russian anti-ship missile system (RCC). It is a development of the P-500 Basalt system. Well, then we read the reference:
https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%9F-1000_%D0%92%D1%83%D0%BB%D0%BA%D0%B0%D0%BD
As they say, hand-face :)))

[severyanin]

Quote: GSH-18

with its latest hypersonic RCC P-1000

I don’t even want to comment on this nonsense .... Learn the materiel, Comrade Lieutenant Commander

[alexmach]

At the 2014 Olympics, our handsome flagship of the Black Sea Fleet Guards Strike Missile Cruiser Moskva (after the Syrian company, everyone knows) flaunted on the Sochi roadstead.

Exactly what showed off, he had nothing more to do there. The protection of the Olympics is the business of the guard and speedboat boats

[Tusv]

Quote: GSH-18

Although I personally am ready at any time and by order, albeit in reserve!

I’m even ready to pay money to land that Turk, that I dared to bring down the dryer

[Ros 56]

Quote: GSH-18

Or maybe not for that ..

You are not mistaken, that is why, whatever one may say, Japan is a sea power and knows a lot about ships. And when your interlocutor accidentally sees something familiar on the horizon, especially after the launch of "Caliber" he somehow starts to take a more sane position. Well, I think no one has canceled the security functions yet. In general, not a superfluous element of the atmosphere at the negotiations.

[GSH-18]

Quote: Michael67

КBlack Sea Fleet is replenished.

K is the red banner, or what?

[Kostyar]

Super pictures, live to admire !!!

[Mista_dj]

Live, he is even more beautiful!

[Denis Obukhov]

Seven feet under the keel!

To be honest, I didn’t exclude that a ship unrelated to the Black Sea Fleet would receive any other task - it took too long to test a ship of such a small displacement. It is a pity that in the near future there will be only three. The hulls built for ourselves will be forced to sell to the side, and even with alterations for the export order. Of course, this is better than decaying against the wall or on needles, but the fleet will not strengthen it.

When there really will be domestic engines like the Ukrainian ones or the best, one can only guess, then the project will turn out to be obsolete - the military will require the latest innovations, then the construction of the lead ship for an improved project. As a result, the new series will not be in the near future.

[adept666]

As a result, the new series will not be in the near future

A new series is already under construction - 22350, and 11356 is the plugging of holes since 22350 has stalled. It’s good that it happened with the engines because 1) there will be no series of weaker frigates 2) there will be own production of power plants for ships of the 2nd and 1st rank 3) there will not be several ships of the same class of different projects (ideally, in general do without 11356, but alas, we harness slowly and we do not always go fast in spite of popular wisdom ...)

[alexmach]

It’s good that it happened with the engines because

Sorry, I do not agree. Stupidity you say. Of course, the development of our own production is good. But it is better to have a fleet with engines, than to endlessly develop and import-substitute and not have a fleet. I proceed from the fact that resources are, in principle, limited, both in the country and in a single person. And they must be spent rationally, so as not to tear oneself.

[adept666]

Sorry, I do not agree. Stupidity you say.

No, it’s not stupidity, our country (Russia) itself could make a power plant for its ships, for this we have all the technologies, but for the sake of politics (close economic ties with Ukraine, it was shown completely in vain because it didn’t work) many domestic projects moved behind the screen and didn’t received funding and development. If during the implementation of these projects they would simultaneously decide to make their own power plant (this is approximately taking into account the capabilities of industry 3-5 years), not only ships would be exported, but also such products for foreign projects, and this would be an additional profit for the military-industrial complex.

than endlessly master and import substitute and not have a fleet

And no one says to do everything at once, but this project (11356-Talvar) will soon be 20 years old. Who prevented the installation of "overseas" engines on ships first and, in parallel, to replace them in the future. For 10 years it was possible to work out more than one power option.

And they must be spent rationally, so as not to tear oneself.

If you invest money correctly, they work for you; if they don’t correctly invest, they work for someone else’s uncle, in this case the second option. GEM on the ship is 35% of the ship, we export ships, but we can’t build almost a third ourselves. This is not right and not normal. What would happen if what happened happened in the year 2000? There would be a failure of the order and a huge penalty.

[alexmach]

our country (Russia) could itself make a power plant for its ships, for this we have all the technologies, but for the sake of politics (close economic ties with Ukraine

Yes, for the sake of what politics, what are you talking about? Has Russia at least once in the past 20 years done at least something to please someone from the former Soviet republics? Could do - did. In Ukraine, they bought it precisely because they could not. I already seem to wrote to you - building an engine in an existing plant is much cheaper than building a plant first, then mastering production, etc. ....

Who prevented the installation of "overseas" engines on ships first and, in parallel, to replace them in the future. For 10 years it was possible to work out more than one power option.

Yes, there is no disagreement, it had to be done.

[adept666]

Yes, for the sake of what politics, what are you talking about?

A very simple policy is to tie a neighbor's industry to its military-industrial complex so that there are as many painful economic points of contact as possible, and when economies are tied very strongly, then the political climate is milder, but this of course works with adequate countries (and that is why, even with all the rhetoric The United States buys engines from Russia, and joint Japanese-German machine tool builders open high-precision production in Russia during the sanctions, etc.), but with a couple of stoned ones, alas, it does not work and why this was not considered for me in the "fraternal" republic before riddle.

Has Russia at least once in the past 20 years done at least something to please someone from the former Soviet republics?

You won’t believe it, but you did. Belarus - cheap energy, an open market for agricultural products and military and civilian goods, industry support (through orders for its own aircraft). Ukraine is similar. The Baltic states all lived and still live on the transit (ports, railways, highways) that the bloodthirsty councils built, a liberal trade policy before sanctions (but with the shouts of Russophobia), despite the fact that they themselves lived in fraud. Do you think this is not enough? Despite the fact that they all seem to have been in the European Union for a long time and this is now his headache, he decided very cunningly by introducing quotas (hello to the free market and competition ) When the evil USSR was an exhibition of achievements and had a huge market without competition, and in Europe a free system of quotas and handouts.

Could do - did.

They could, and Klimov’s engines would have been made completely independently for a long time already, and they’ve done engines for GEM ships (that M75RU was already ready in 2003 and there was nothing stopping it from doing and developing the range, but they didn’t and didn’t develop because there was NO ORDER OF THE INDUSTRY ) It would be ridiculous to read statements - they did despite the fact that in Russia there were several industrial sites for the production and design of gas turbine installations for both the gas industry and aviation. There is the same technology at the core!

I already seem to wrote to you - building an engine in an existing plant is much cheaper than building a plant first, then mastering production, etc. ....

Nothing needed to be built (unless a little to re-equip production) in Russia, several plants dealing with gas turbine engines at once - place an order on any of them and that's it. Once again I say both the technologies necessary and the industrial sites for the release in the Russian Federation there was no political will.

[alexmach]

A very simple policy is to tie the industry of a neighbor to your defense industry

Nonsense! There was no need to tie anything there, she was always attached to this military-industrial complex, from the moment of her birth.

Belarus - cheap energy,

Ukraine is similar

There has never been such a thing. Ukraine has not had cheap energy since 1995, just a little bit, except that the growth in prices for them lagged behind European teps of the year until 2009, then it was successfully surpassed. Russia has always squeezed the maximum out of its energy resources that it could. If you are from those advertised discounts, then you gave these discounts from an unrealistic price from the beginning so that you would come as close as possible to the maximum realistic one.

market for agricultural products

Russia produces about half of what it eats. You will not open the import market, you will eat 2 times less.

why there was no need to build (except to slightly re-equip production) in Russia several plants dealing with gas turbine engines at once - place an order on any of them and that's it

So what's the problem then? Well place and build! Why then don't you build, why the first gas-turbine engines will be available only by 2018? But no, there are not enough test stands there. But the production (in Gatchina, if I am not mistaken), which was supposed to be replaced by "motors", still cannot reach the required production volumes. Of the required 300 burners per year, they still produce ... how much? 50? And this despite the fact that they began to master this production there in 2006!

Let's be realistic. It's great that there is a technological groundwork. But the production of modern high-tech equipment is not being restored according to the principle "what we need to build a house, we will draw - we will live"

[adept666]

Nonsense! There was no need to tie anything there, she was always attached to this military-industrial complex, from the moment of her birth.

Nonsense is what you write. It was tied in the days of the USSR and could be untied in the times starting from the 2000s and REPLACED by domestic production, but this was not done and precisely for the reasons that I wrote about.

There has never been such a thing.

Well, of course you know better from abroad.

Ukraine has not had cheap energy since the year 1995.

What are you saying? Can you bring the contract price as a compelling argument? Only do not forget to take away the permanent discount and the price for transit, and then you will say something.

Russia has always squeezed the maximum out of its energy resources that it could.

There has never been a market gas price either for Ukraine or Belarus, just as there is none and now there is no need to breed your overseas here. If it weren’t for the support of the Russian Federation, then under the sanctions regime, Belarus would have bent into two accounts.

If you are from those advertised discounts, then you gave these discounts from an unrealistic price from the beginning so that you would come as close as possible to the maximum realistic one.

It is about them. The price is too high, but with discounts it always turned out to be lower than market prices.

Russia produces about half of what it eats. You will not open the import market, you will eat 2 times less.

Heh what a cunning. Is there anything different about import-import? One thing is import through a sent barrier, which stimulates the development of domestic production and import without a sent barrier (Belarus, Ukraine). Do you feel the difference?

So what is the problem then? Well place and build!

Well, Duc sipped now started.

Why then no longer build, why the first gas turbine engines will be only by 2018?

Because they did not build offshore gas turbine engines of this power class, and they have their own small specifics. Just to design, test and mass-produce a modern marine engine in 3 years is my friend’s record and it’s simply not realistic without experience and appropriate equipment, and this once again shows that we could do everything ourselves, and not as you say. Here is your country on its own to do it with all the desire will not be able even in 10 years

And this despite the fact that there began to develop this production in 2006!

Well, so where does the speed come from if there is no funding and political will? And now you have to replace several rulers at once, and this is certainly not easy. But they do this, and this is the main thing, and to increase production is a purely organizational issue, in Soviet times it was decided very quickly that it is possible now.

Let's be realistic.

Yes, much more realistic.

[alexmach]

There has never been a market gas price for either Ukraine or Belarus,

I do not know about Belarus, but for Ukaina it is the most market-oriented one.

The price is too high, but with discounts it always turned out to be lower than market prices.

You tell me please, how do you determine the market price then? What is your market price? I will present my version below.

http://topwar.ru/uploads/images/2016/005/gryn395.png

Does this picture tell you something? This is actually an illustration of the concept of market price. Q is the amount of P is the price. The curve that goes up - the seller’s wishlist, The curve that falls down - the buyer’s. The intersection point is actually it. The market price is that price for which you can really sell your goods in such and such volume in this market. There are no other definitions; this is not a price for Hermanni, and is not wanted by any formula, this is just a point of balance between the desires and capabilities of buyers and sellers.

I will illustrate on historical facts:

In 2012, the average gas price for Ukraine was about 300 dollars per 100 m3. At this price, Ukraine bought about 30 billion cubic meters (this is almost as much as you supply to Germany, and a little less than your Chinese contract, which some recently shouted that a great geopolitical victory, others that siege, and fell under China ... Ukraine I bought the same amount, according to a pipe built in Soviet times and at a price for which China will never buy)
At the same time, your jingoistic patriots counted crazy "discounts" and told how many virtual billions you invest in Ukraine ... that's exactly what virtual ones, since this price of 300 was the ceiling that Ukraine could pay for gas at all in those years .. . and it showed the next year

In 2013, this very average price was already 400 And the amount of gas sold fell .. by half .. to 16 billion m3. And then for the last deliveries Ukraine could no longer pay off (even before the complete mess, under Yanukovych and Azarov, they asked for a delay, and these payments were paid off only next summer). And not at all because Ukrainians are ungrateful bastards, but because the law of supply and demand balance is real. Attention to the question "donators" what is more in money 30 x 300 or 14 x 400? or maybe 0 to 500?

In 2014, all pots were beaten with Ukraine. and the price became 500. How much did Ukraine buy at this price? Yes, not how much. Even more than that, I just took as much as I needed and paid nothing. Then they bargained for a long time and you know what they were hinging on? Pay 240 each (again, a reasonable price for Ukraine, which is a surprise) and we will deal with the rest in court. They still haven’t reached the trial, and it’s not a fact that they were going to. And judging by the astronomically growing amounts of mutual claims, they will never reach, and if they do, they will argue in it about the meaning of life in general.

Here is an illustration on the topic of market prices.

Because they did not build offshore gas turbine engines of this power class, and they have their own small specifics.

I don’t understand you. They could build anywhere, they were never worth it and there is a specificity. Either everything has been mastered - it’s a feat to master such production in 3 years ... decide anyway.

There is one more point - there is such a thing as the depth of the division of labor. In order to achieve this very depth, a fairly large number of people and a sufficiently large market are necessary. 140 million is a sufficient quantity to do everything all by ourselves? I don't know, I'm just asking

[adept666]

I don’t understand you. They could build anywhere, they were never worth it and there is a specificity. Either everything has been mastered - it’s a feat to master such production in 3 years ... decide anyway.

In order to understand, you need to want to understand and read carefully. But for you (since you are on the other side of the river) I will take a step-by-step look at our dialogue I: they could build themselves, they didn’t build for political reasons you: I don’t agree, if we could, we would build I am: they could, but there was no political will, no one interfered when the frigates laid down to do their own power plants in parallel, because industry would quickly resolve this issue in 3-5 years, and in 10 a whole line Are you:building an engine in an existing plant is much cheaper than building a plant first I am: There is no need to build factories, everything has already been built, it is necessary to give an assignment to these factories to deal with this problem, but no one gave an assignment. Are you: Well, post I am: Now placed when sipped Are you: Only engines for ships by 2018, for helicopters, full replacement is similar. started working in 2014, letting go of 2018 is 4 years old, and now look up and see how much I said our industry could solve this problem if it were?

What is your market price?

Why did you rewrite my school textbook on economics? The price of gas is historically formed in the following ways: 1) Oil pegging. 2) Regulated pricing (allowing subsidies) 3) Competitive market pricing. Gazprom trades with reference to oil, for which the exchange forms the price (this is the market price in this case) and all long-term contracts dance from this, and not like in your pictures.

In 2012, the average gas price for Ukraine was about $ 300 per 100 m3 ... In 2013, this average price was already 400 .... And not at all because Ukrainians are ungrateful bastards, but because the law of supply and demand balance is real ... Attention to the question "donators" what is more in money 30 x 300 or 14 x 400? or maybe 0 to 500?

At the bottom of the graph is the contract price for gas for Ukraine, Europe and the CIS countries (mainly Belarus). Now about 2012/2013 ... Yes, there the gas price reached $ 426 (because the oil price danced at 130), but thanks to the Kharkov (2010) agreements, a 30% discount should be determined but not more than $ 100 . Those. at a price of $ 426, the discount should be $ 127, but since the restriction was introduced, it was $ 100. The price for 1000 cubic meters is $ 326, with an average European 382 (it is basically the market for the region), in addition, Ukraine received money for gas transit and with this in mind, the real price of gas for myself was $ 280 (i.e., almost $ 100 less than for Europe) I certainly understand the brothers there like and all that, but still had to be dropped? This is the problem of Russia, what Ukraine wants not to pay for gas at all?

[alexmach]

Why did you rewrite my school textbook on economics? laughing

Well, because you ignore the simple facts set forth in it.

One can argue about how market pricing for oil is, there is a very large speculative component, but this is a separate issue. But here's the calculation of something according to some formula, starting from the price of oil, what does this have to do with the market? What does the market have to do with it? Gas that is traded on the same platforms as oil? Do gas prices have the same impact? Or can gas and oil be technically interchangeable? Wanted to fill gasoline in a gas tank but wanted to pump gas?

Calculation of prices according to formulas is pure fraud. The real market begins later, when you start calculating the so-called discounts from that price .. Which, in fact, show the gap between the real market price and your formulas.


I look at your chart, and since 2009 the prices are quite at the European level. A little lower? and who told you that they should not be lower. Ukraine buys this gas 1000 km to the east than Europe (yes, you didn’t take the transit price away from the price you needed, you know, you should have gotten the Ukrainian price from the "average European"?). In addition, Ukraine until the last Maidan was your largest buyer "in Europe" or from Europe, as you please.

[adept666]

Well, because you ignore the simple facts set forth in it.

For one simple reason - this is a theory, practice is usually different from theory, and speaking specifically about oil / gas, it differs in this case and in a particular market like heaven and earth.

You can argue about how market pricing for oil

You can argue as much as you like, but if this particular market forms prices based on speculation on the exchange, then those prices that are lit on this exchange are market prices for this particular market.

But calculation of something according to some formula, starting from the price of oil, what does this have to do with the market?

The most direct. Gas prices on the European market are linked by contracts to oil prices, the price of oil is formed by the exchange, therefore, the price of gas will dance after the oil.

Or can gas and oil be technically interchangeable? Wanted to fill gasoline in a gas tank but wanted to pump gas?

This has nothing to do with gas pricing.

Calculation of prices according to formulas is pure fraud.

It was not the Russian Federation that came up with the formula, but Europe (the rules of the European market) and the USSR, when entering the European market, adopted these rules (and nobody gave a choice, as it does not to Gazprom)

The real market begins later, when you start calculating the so-called discounts from that price .. Which actually show the gap between the real market price and your formulas.

These are not my formulas, but yours (European) - times. Gazprom cannot influence this fact in any way because it was clamped legally in Europe, and so already for the most part - two. Moreover, even discounts can not give just like that. The same 30% under the Kharkiv agreements became possible thanks to an intergovernmental agreement such as the money coming from the base of the fleet, even though the price would increase in monetary terms if they were given without reference to the agreement, they would get problems with European partners.

I look at your schedule ...

Once again - this Ukraine proposed a different form of settlement - market, not Gazprom. The market price in the European market is European, not Russian. Further, what price did I take away?

Naftogaz Ukrainy’s revenues from transit of Russian gas grew in 2013 by 12,5% ​​to $ 3,6 billion, according to a report by the National Energy Security Fund (NESF).

This means that even without the fact that the discount was $ 100 per 1000 cubic meters, it was also 3,6 mln. dollars. This is so that you understand almost half of the Estonian budget in 2012. And do not come up with some kind of Central European transit price. The price of gas is set by the exchange at the price of oil, and the transit price is set by a separate client-owner agreement.

In addition, Ukraine until the last Maidan was your biggest buyer "in Europe" or from Europe, as you please.

She still buys our gas, only reversible, i.e. those who supply it with it should increase the volume of their purchases, this makes it possible for Gazprom to put all the legal problems on Europeans' head, now you guys will have to negotiate with an irreconcilable state and since the angry Russians offended Ukraine, you should spare it, give it a discount on gas, well say up to $ 100

[alexmach]

Something I signed. In one comment does not fit ...

Well, you certainly know better from abroad

You will be surprised, but on the other side of the border you can really see something else, not that on this one.

What are you saying? Can you bring the contract price as a compelling argument?

Why not bring it. In the early 90s, Russia blocked the transit of Turkmen gas to Ukraine and stated that now it is possible to buy gas only from Gazprom. At the same time, a contract was signed for the supply of gas for ... 50 years .. at a price ... of $ 50 ... 50! and this price was one and a half times more expensive than the Turkmen one. At the same time, you told the Turkmens to buy back all their gas imports for a long time too .... well, of course, it didn’t grow together. Neither the agreement with Ukraine nor the agreement with Turkey you have fulfilled.

[adept666]

You will be surprised, but on the other side of the border you can really see something else, not that on this one.

The fact that another is visible, I have no doubt whether the question is better seen ...

Why not bring it. In the early 90s, Russia blocked the transit of Turkmen gas to Ukraine and stated that now it is possible to buy gas only from Gazprom. At the same time, a contract was signed for the supply of gas for ... 50 years .. at a price ... of $ 50 ... 50! and this price was one and a half times more expensive than the Turkmen one.

Hah how easy it is to turn the main emphasis to do the right thing. And since it would be nothing that Yushchenko himself said we were goodbye brothers to Europe, and let's not pay for gas as brothers, but as partners to pay, well, we would pay extra for transit. Gazprom - OK, here is a new price for transit and a new market price for Europe. If you want, get it. They didn’t want to ... i.e. they wanted for transit, but there was no market price, we ran to the type of Turkmens, and let us give us gas, and Turkmens, but xs because we need to decide who will be the priority buyer for Russia or if we don’t have so much gas to provide all contracts, we’ll always think about Russia It pays and has great investment opportunities. Moreover, if you are directly gas, then pay Russia for transit (and we need it? Is it easier to hand over and get hard-earned money at the border). Failed. Ukraine has begun to screw up type, well, let’s say, Turkmens, well, we’ll sell you 22 lard, but the price will be higher and return the debt of 160 million greens. As they say, Miller came and put pressure on the Turkmens, only he came to discuss the gas price for himself, which still rose despite the terrible pressure of up to $ 100. Miller’s pressure on the wrong system seems to be ...

[alexmach]

Hah how easy it is to turn the main emphasis to do the right thing.

What does the stress have to do with it? I am writing to you about the facts. You either don’t know about them, or you twist them yourself, as with taking away the price for transit, for example.

And what does Yushchenko have to do with it? It was in the 90s. Then Kuchma was young and almost bald. Ukraine bought gas from Turkmenistan (it was cheaper there). Gazprom came and blocked the Turkmen transit. Since then, in principle, there has been no talk of any Turkmen gas. Gazprom does not allow anyone to drive in transit through the territory of Russia, so as not to create competitors. The next time you complain that Ukraine just wants to sit on a pipe and take a percentage of your natural wealth, just remember that you yourself did the same.

and Turkmens, but xs, for it is necessary to decide who will be the priority buyer for Russia, or because you ..

Yes, everything is well known who will be their priority buyer, and in 2008 this was already clear. The one who is now. And This is not Gazprom.

- Having cut off the transit for the Turkmens, Gazprom promised them to buy back the entire volume of gas produced from them at affordable prices.
- Then he sat in a puddle, finally in 2008, when Europe had a decline in consumption due to the crisis. (Turkmen heard recently shouting that Gazprom is bankrupt and incapable of fulfilling its obligations? is this about that)
- Now the main buyer of Turkmen gas is China.

By blocking the transit of Turkmen gas, Gazprom took obligations to Ukraine, even for 50 years.

Yushchenko, of course, spoiled relations with Russia himself, it’s hard to argue, but to put everything on one side ... well, the world is a little more complicated than just black and white.

Okay, I’m taking my leave for the sim. Ahead is a labor week, not until discussions will be. If you offended with anything, sorry, I could write emotionally. I wrote it just to express my opinion, and talk about what I know.

[adept666]

What does the stress have to do with it? I am writing to you about the facts. You either don’t know about them, or you twist them yourself, as with taking away the price for transit, for example.

No. You write about fictitious facts or present them in a hard way (I will give an example below). And this is not invented: 1) Naftagaz buys gas from Gazprom. 2) Naftagaz has a solid profit from transit (investing almost nothing) (in 2013 it was $ 3,6 billion) 3) Naftagaz had a 30% discount on gas. By adding / subtracting the income / expense in financial relations between Naftagaz and Gazprom, we get that the true price of gas for Naftogaz was ~ $ 280 (with a counter of $ 426) per 1000 cubic meters, despite record oil prices. This is the FACTS.

Gazprom came and blocked Turkmen transit.

Here is a vivid example of filing a fact in a hard way. Gazprom cannot block transit because it is not in its competence to make such decisions, even taking into account the fact that he is the owner of the pipe - this is all fantasy. What really happened? Gazprom bought gas from Turkmens by offering more favorable conditions - this is called competition in the language of experts and the fact that Ukraine was unable to offer better conditions is not Gazprom’s problem.

The next time you complain ... just remember that you yourself did the same.

Of course they did. And no one complains. Do you suggest not taking a penny for transit? Only the whole difference lies in the state of the gas transport systems of Ukraine and Russia, and also in the fact that it was more profitable for the same Turkmens to sell the entire volume at the border and not to bathe at least on the basis of the fact that Russia is more solvent and contractual. It was still economics, not politics. Now it’s easier for them to sell volumes to China and also not to bathe. Why did you decide that they wanted to have business with Ukraine despite the fact that they had more profitable and more stable customers? If China fractures their entire volume from where will they have volumes for others?

- Then he sat in a puddle

This is a common market practice; there is a demand - there is a supply, if it is not, then the firms that formed the offer optimize their costs, change their strategy. For some reason, if Gazprom does this, then this is some kind of crime, and if Apple does it, well, it happens, they were forced to.

By blocking the transit of Turkmen gas, Gazprom took obligations to Ukraine, even for 50 years.

If there were any legal obligations why there were no lawsuits in this regard? Has Gazprom banned again? And then when they make obligations, the conditions for their observance are usually indicated, well, for example, if Ukraine does not raise the price for transit or payments between Ukraine and Russia will take some special form. If Ukraine decided to change these conditions, then the obligations are no longer valid and in favor of this version it says that there were no lawsuits in international arbitration.

Yushchenko of course spoiled relations with Russia

The key.

Okay, I’m taking my leave for the sim.

All the best and thanks for the discussion (it was interesting )

[Tusv]

Quote: adept666

A new series is already under construction - 22350, and 11356 is the plugging of holes since 22350 has stalled.

So it seems these admiral series are paralleled. 11356 for the Atlantic and Indian Ocean. 22350 for the North and Pacific Oceans. One series must interchangeably control the West and South, the other North and East.
Agree, building the same is too expensive. The conditions are different.

[adept666]

So it seems these admiral series are paralleled. 11356 for the Atlantic and Indian Ocean.

What is the Indian Ocean for a ship with a total displacement of 3500 tons (this is me about project 11356)? The Black Sea, the Mediterranean here is its habitat. You can of course hit the Horn of Africa (Gulf of Aden), go into the Arabian Sea to drive pirates there, but you waved the Indian Ocean IMHO. The Atlantic is the Northern Fleet's area of ​​responsibility and has always been so.

22350 for the North and Pacific Oceans.

In order to quickly solve problems on such open spaces, ships of a higher rank are needed because even 22350 (although for some reason it belongs to us at rank 1 ) for these purposes is too small.

One series must interchangeably control the West and South, the other North and East. Agree, building the same is too expensive. The conditions are different.

I disagree, because the history of the USSR fleet has been convincingly proved by more successful examples of the fleets of other countries. To build a ship is mere pennies, but to maintain it is the main cost and the less (costs), the larger the series and fewer any different modifications (the same weapons, power plant, RTS, BIUS, etc.) + faster saturation of the fleet ... And there were no plans to build Talvars for themselves (if we speak from a historical point of view), they did (and continue) on the 22350 project (it was just "a little" late, alas)

[Tusv]

Quote: adept666

What is the Indian Ocean for a ship with a total displacement of 3500 tons (this is me about project 11356)? The Black Sea, the Mediterranean here is its habitat. You can of course hit the Horn of Africa (Gulf of Aden), go into the Arabian Sea to drive pirates there, but you waved the Indian Ocean IMHO.

What is it that, the Indian version improved by 1,5 times, Admiral Grigorovich and Essen can not swim at the equator? Especially after the full course therapies trials in the resorts of the winter ocean?
I'm not naval, but it's a shame for the neighbors

[adept666]

What is it obtained, 1,5 times improved Indian version

1,5 times what? Hypothetically total TTX? It may be better because the project is slightly updated, but its dimensions are exactly the same and the construction of the hull (not add-ons), and this suggests that its seaworthiness is the same and autonomy too.

Admiral Grigorovich and Essen can not swim at the equator?

Such a ship outside the grouping with a range of 2300 miles cannot serve far from the main fleet bases (even the Middle Sea is already problematic for us, only one naval base), since in that area we do not have the appropriate naval infrastructure and the maximum that it can be ensured - an inter-naval transition or international exercises, say with the Indian Navy, which has nothing to do with operational duty (permanent presence on the basis of rotation), so your statement:

11356 for the Atlantic and Indian Ocean.

fundamentally wrong.

Especially after a full course of therapy tests at the resorts of the winter ocean?

The "winter" ocean in comparison with the "Summer" (Indian) quiet harbor can be said, and the fact that tests were carried out there, this only indicates that the ship can be used in the Arctic latitudes (thermal insulation, heating system) in difficult ice conditions (reinforcement of the hull to the minimum ice class), this does not add any advantages to its seaworthiness (it simply expands the geography of application)

[Tusv]

Quote: adept666

in difficult ice conditions (hull reinforcement to a minimum ice class

Bravo! You have confirmed the requirement of MO and KSP (tax for state employees), why build ships with minimal ice protection, where there is no ice in principle

[adept666]

why build ships with minimal ice protection, where there is no ice in principle

For ships starting from the 2nd rank, the Ministry of Defense requires a minimum ice class because our waters are mostly cold, and where to serve the ship usually depends on the foreign policy and military situation. There is such a thing as the rotation of ships between fleets, combined fleets, etc.

[poruchik]

and along the way let him go to the Baltic states, Germans, Bulgarians)))

[dsm100]

For this three-time URA, URA, URA. A great gift for the holiday of the Great Victory!

[Andrey K]

Here are the joys in the NATO flotilla on the Black Sea !!!
Here is a "holiday of life" with free heartburn, from the first of a series of frigates, from "Admiral Grigorovich"

[sever.56]

Lenur Islyamov brought the Navy of the Majlis into full combat readiness, consisting of two six-boat boats ...
But seriously, the crazy Sultan-Erdogan would not have arranged some dirty trick with the passage of "Admiral Grigorovich" through the straits!

[Michael67]

Something tells me that in Middle-earth Grgorovich, whoever from the KChF will meet. So. Just in case. So that it was calmer to go along the Bosphorus. Together, it is always more fun.

[kostya-petrov]

Quote: Michael67

Something tells me that in Middle East Grgorovich whoever of the KChF will meet.

yesterday the patrol ship Ladny left Sevastopol for the Mediterranean.
Plus there are also RTOs "Serpukhov", ICR "Smetlivy", GRKR "Varyag". So the company is serious there.

[mike_z]

Quote: sever.56

the crazy sultan-erdogan would not arrange some dirty trick with the passage of "Admiral Grigorovich" through the straits!

Well, we’ll see it ... Although anything can happen, but, I think, they will not be solved.

[Roman 11]

Quote: mike_z

Although anything can happen, but I think they will not dare.

What are you speaking about? This is war! We are stretched with them until the first shot, we both understand perfectly well - any action with shots at us is 100% war, or at least airstrikes like that ... now the wars have gone awesome, without reparations, reparations, without announcements, and it simply happens that the name of the country disappears as a result of incomprehensible actions - Yugoslavia. So if it comes, then the exchange of bombing and kaput in this war - the military equipment will end on the side.

[Tusv]

Quote: sever.56

Lenur Islyamov brought the Navy of the Majlis to full combat readiness,

... and suffered the first losses. Themselves already throw grenades

[Mountain shooter]

Pretty boy! Each ship is like a balm for the soul.

[x.andvlad]

God grant such a couple of dozen more to build.

[alex80]

And on the way, as part of the additional crew training, do not forget to shoot Caliber from the Mediterranean Sea -
standard transition after all

[donavi49]

In Syria, the situation is very tense.


In South Aleppo, the Baha'is went on a major offensive. They claim to have entrenched in the Khan Tuman (nodal point), took Khalidia and Humira, as well as the heights. CSKA does not yet confirm the Khan Fog, but confirm the loss of heights and Chalidia.

Under truce dressing, the broads gathered a rather large mechanized group. Fatimion and the Syrians could not resist, judging by the prisoners.

Video Nusryat, by storm Khan Fog:


And these are the combined groups of Nusra, Akhrarovtsy and SSA on support:



Captured Afghans and Local Syrians




Now there are fierce battles there, even VKS on the Su-30 have already arrived, judging by the babakhphots and video. That is, the situation is very, very serious.

[donavi49]

At the same time, the IG hit the field Shaer - This is the key point that nourishes Damascus, Homs and Hama. The deposit itself is still being held, gas plant - lost the entire perimeter of the defense collapsed, including the main base near Schaer - there are a bunch of weapons, including Cornets, mines, guns, and riflemen.

[kirieeleyson]

it would be necessary to twist the spring, to spread the area of ​​the main dispersion with thermobars a dozen times, so that in the future babai with catheters would walk their entire short life, and return the videoconferencing group. And the matter will not be behind the calibers. Apparently, we are waiting for a "united front" of "moderates" and everyone else against the government army to be fully formed, and then you can kill them without paying much attention to the squeals of the United States and any other evil spirits.

[donavi49]

Nevertheless, the Fog is lost, Hadi is already walking there, he is carrying on broad reports, though he is still arriving, but according to topographic references they are there, other broads-turnips in the center (https://twitter.com/BosnjoBoy/status/728554614929432576)


At one time, when the Suleimani attack was on, Khan Tuman fought for 10 days, with constant ironing of the VKS and the active participation of Lebanese and Persians.

Plus, the Fog itself is a nodal point, it was taken to secure the Life Road in Aleppo, it is very close to the highway supplying the liberated army of Aleppo.

[kirieeleyson]

They force them to disperse their forces and focus; all this trouble will go on there for a long time to come. The poor people of the SAR, they fell a decade of war, but then, if they survive, everyone will have a jop-jop, especially Israel, which annexed the Golan Heights. Iran will also not stand aside.

[alexmach]

everyone will have a jop-jop, especially Israel, which annexed the Golan Heights

The Israelis have an opinion that they will just be all right. They are just broads and not afraid. With bandits and terrorists they can easily cope. The main threat to them was at one time the armies of the surrounding Arab countries. Well, where are these armies now?

[solohan]

I don’t understand why they are shooting in the white light like a pretty penny and leaving the warehouse with weapons to the broads? Where are the VKS and why didn’t they actually mine it, did not destroy all this stuff

[Yarik76]

Positive definitely!

[pts-m]

The ship had not yet reached Sevastopol, and the Kakhly had already gotten rid of everything, and sputtering vied with each other to report to their black man ... my master about the new Russian squadron.

[Marlen]

Great news.

[Corsair0304]

And it is right. Strengthening the Black Sea Fleet in connection with the construction of a bridge to the Crimea and the complete inadequacy of Turkey is one of the most urgent tasks.

PS Still really - I shot "Caliber" during the transition to the Basmachi in Syria, so to speak, to leave a word.

[alexmach]

Still really - I shot "Caliber" during the passage through the Basmachi in Syria, so to speak, to leave a word for himself.

Yes, there’s nothing to spend on them calibers for them and the FAB fit.

[Forever so]

Krrrasava !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Torins]

Seven pounds to him under the keel!

[darksoul]

Handsome. Eh ... I saw this news a week ago in my opinion .... I thought maybe by the 9th of May I will have time in Sevastopol ...

[Verdun]

"Admiral Grigorovich" began the transition to Sevastopol

This is closer to the topic. It will be more serious than RTOs. There would be more such ships and such news.

[aszzz888]

Congratulations to the Russian Navy! The State Department splashed a glass of carvalol around the hara!

[MATROSKIN-53]

Big ship - great sailing! Seven feet under the keel!

[mike_z]

It's good that "Grigorovich" is prepared and started moving. We expect the same from "Admiral Gorshkov". there is something not going yet. What specifically did not specify. Who knows the thread?

[donavi49]

Passing tests. 11356 has a low percentage of novelty, everything is worked out there either on the Indians or on the Chinese (Calm-1 with a vertical launch and a new missile in the PLA Navy is presented on 22 054 ships), but on the 22350 everything is new, starting from BIUS and ending with a cannon. Yes, he’s not supposed to go anywhere. It will live there.

[Anchonsha]

And the Crimeans will be happy, for them a new warship is evidence that Russia and Crimea are forever. And the fleet is gradually expanding.

[bad]

the best news today! I'll go take a beer and celebrate a little ..

[Pvi1206]

Sobering news for the rulers of Turkey and Ukraine ...

[uskrabut]

Russia is even closer to the borders of NATO it seems that is what our arrogant friends call it

[Demeter]

A good universal missile frigate, completely ready for battle. There would be more of them.

[bddrus]

he has only 8 rockets? how on 21630 ???? very little

[Sultan Babai]

Maybe more, but a little later ... the project of a new installation may first be rolled in on the Zelenodolsky cheetah project ...

[Demeter]

You do not compare the 11356 universal missile frigate with the MRK. There are no anti-submarine weapons on the MRK, and the RBU-6000 on the Grigorovich and the homing torpedoes. On the MRK there is almost no air defense, MANPADS are flexible, this is just a raven to frighten, the probability of intercepting the target is not more than 40%. On Grigorovichich a full-fledged Shtil and ZRAK SAM system, with Igla.Grigorovich man-portable air defense system, has a multi-purpose helicopter that is not available on an air defense missile system, and in terms of survivability, seaworthiness and autonomy of an air defense system, it’s not even suitable for a frigate, frigates 22350, who like to compare with Grigorovich, were never brought to mind and when they’re bringing it up, it’s not clear. The tests of the head frigate 22350 have no end, no edge, and are not ready for battle. Grigorovich is completely brought to mind and ready for battle, and this is the most important thing.

[donavi49]

Only ZAK Broadsword (the Navy did not accept the missile version) and it is not available on 11356 - it's expensive. There are ordinary AK-630M.

[Demeter]

What exactly there is nobody knows, look at Wikipedia, they write about the ZRAK Broadsword and the Shtil air defense system. It is not written about the rocket corvettes of Dagestan and Tatarstan that they have Caliber missiles on board, and then they wrote that they shot Caliber , together with RTOs. It’s expensive to build non-full-fledged non-universal ships, because they are very vulnerable to submarines and enemy aircraft, which means that in a real battle they will not be of much use ...

[dvina71]

Quote: Demeter

You do not compare the 11356 universal missile frigate with the MRK. There are no anti-submarine weapons on the MRK, and homing torpedoes on the RBU-6000 Grigorovich. There are almost no air defense, MANPADS on the MRK, it’s just a scare raven, the probability of target interception is no more than 40%.

Now they are building peacetime ships without setting the most, but every Soviet, Russian warship is designed with a load capacity.
In the threatened period, instead of AK-639, there will be a Broadsword. Or perhaps a numbed torus will be added when it is finally brought.
So ... at least not to slow down the main pace of construction, but ideally - it is necessary to increase.

[atamankko]

And let the adversaries think if there is anything.

[Sultan Babai]

A ship very needed by the Black Sea Fleet, and even more so by the Pacific ... Good luck in service !!!

[dima mzk]

as they say, and GLORY TO GOD!

[msm]

In South Aleppo, the Baha'is went on a major offensive

We are, as always - where everyone sees us. And, to this, only our leadership brings - and nothing else.

[Monarchist]

Maybe someone in the know: is there or is building Admiral Kolchak? Somewhere infa flashed that in the PF there is "Alexander3". If the emperor can be, then Kolchak will pass. A passing question, except for Alexander and Peter, are there still emperors in the fleet?

[Phosgene]

In tsarist times there was an armadillo (battleship pre-dreadnought) Emperor Paul the First.

[fleet]

It would be nice if I came by May 9th, but better later than never!

[vlad575nso]

Quote: donavi49

Only ZAK Broadsword (the Navy did not accept the missile version) and it is not available on 11356 - it's expensive. There are ordinary AK-630M.

To put on a modern ship that will serve for more than a dozen years, not even the ZAK "Palash", not the AK-630M-2 "Duet", but the usual AK-630M. IMHO: this is not saving money, this is "sabotage", for which one must be severely punished.

[misterwulf]

Good news. Replenishment in progress. And that was the time, except for "Moscow", a pair of RTOs, a pair of large landing ships, 1 DPL and there was nothing to remember.
AND! The "Parisian commune" of the tsarist production also stands here in the Streletskaya Bay.

[msm]

"The frigate" Admiral Grigorovich "will arrive at the main base of the Black Sea Fleet, the city of Sevastopol, at the end of May"

Probably come on oars?