Engines of the Kolomensky Zavod plant will be installed before the end of May on the “Gremyashchy” corvette under construction

According to the statement press service the main military department of Russia, the newest corvette "Gremsy" project 20385, which is being built at the shipyard "Severnaya Verf", will be equipped with engines of domestic production. The report says that the installation of power plants on the corvette "Thundering" will be carried out before the end of May 2016. We are talking about four engines that are produced at the Kolomna enterprise.

It should be recalled that the original corvettes of the 20385 project were planned to be equipped with German MTU engines, but sanctions intervened in the implementation of the plans. As a result, it was decided to proceed to the process of import substitution. In this case, the work on import substitution was entrusted to the Kolomna Plant, which created power plants with an 7500 kW power each, while the MTU power plant provides less power.

The general designer of the Kolomna plant reports that this is the first experience in creating engines of such power for fleet in modern Russia.

For reference: the corvette "Gremyaschy" was laid at the shipyard "Severnaya Verf" in February 2012. The project 20385 only two corvettes. Bookmark the second - "Agile" - was made in 2013 year.

Comments

[Andrey K]

God forbid that the factory workers with their installations do not let us down
If on the Corvette “Thundering” they normally show themselves, then replication of these installations for the entire series of ships can be done without fear ...
Since the beginning of the sanctions, they did not scratch themselves, so the Germans and the Ukrainians tried to hold us back for the "installation", count them in the drawbar

[donavi49]

There is a propulsion system, now identical to 20380, but the engines are forced (that is, reliability is even more gone, the 16D49 engine itself is old), except that the gas duct will be new. Because the existing one is not designed for such a quantity of thrown products or just a jamb, as a result, soot and combustion products accumulated in the flue, which caused regular fires in all Baltic 20380s, and fires at the Stereguschey and Soobrazitelnoye.

Also, reliability itself is low. 20385 corvettes planned to be involved in patrols, far from their home base (Middle-earth with service in Tartus for example or Aden), with Kolomna diesels, this will be impossible.

[Alex von Dorn]

So check it out.

[kepmor]

And there’s nothing to check!
Our (Soviet, now Russian) marine diesel engines have never been distinguished by at least some acceptable reliability, especially high-speed ones!
Actually, this is some kind of anachronism - put on a modern ship in the far sea zone as the main diesel engines!
After all, there is excellent experience in operating such projects with gas turbines - 61, 1134B, 1135 - their accident rate of power plant was several times lower than that of diesel engines and "steam locomotives"!
It is clear that in the turbines we have in the Russian Federation there is a "complete ambush" ... hell knows "in which dupa" all our "naval commanders" have been looking for the last 25 years ?!
But without turbines, these corvettes will be "chained" to the shipyard and will not see either the Mediterranean or the Atlantic ... they will crawl along the "marquis puddle".
I sincerely sympathize with the commanders and mechanics of this project - they will have to sip problems up to their throats with such "main" ...

[Sergey S.]

Quote: kepmor

I sincerely sympathize with the commanders and mechanics of this project - they will have to sip problems up to their throats with such "main" ...

In something you are right.
But we must take into account the fact that all diesel boats go under the Kolomna diesel engines.
And they ran even much further than the Mediterranean ...

But when diesels are ordered in pieces and dozens for warships ... it is extremely difficult to choose imperfections and oversights.
Corvettes resemble diesels for a year or two, and the Kolomians will finalize their motors to the world level.

But actually you need to remember. that in terms of speed our diesel ships and boats were world champions.

PS
Any gas turbine engine is even more economical than a seedy, outdated diesel engine ...
But the cruising range is also an important parameter.

[igor.borov775]

HI!! What do you think he’s right. The respected expert bears nonsense. Diesel locomotives so-called diesel electric ships were built en masse since 1960. Icebreakers were rescue locomotives and they weren’t measured about the civilian fleet. The coastal swimming zone. probably. Any old mechanic would twist his finger at one place. The problems were completely different. Noise in MO ventilation is a problem for motor ships. The remote control system is just awful .. But with each series of diesel locomotives these problems were solved. Of course, diesel locomotives were not very high quality. The placement itself is even worse. It was all but walked around the ball more than once. The steam engine was quiet but the boilers burst so I couldn’t dream. The world does not stand still. Now many problems have been resolved the most egregious. So, the fleet that you think should be wiped off the coast convincingly shows that he can handle what our distant brethren calmly did.

[rubidiy]

So check it out.

1D16 looks like this:


TTX 16D49 wind to the bottom of the page:
http://www.kolomnadiesel.com/productions/diesel_engine/d49/behaviour/

2.D500 looks like this:


TTX at this link:
http://www.kolomnadiesel.com/productions/diesel_engine/d500/performance_attribut
es /
http://www.kolomnadiesel.com/productions/diesel_engine/d500/main_technical_solut
ions /
in short, someone needs less zvizdet. The level of thinking of the auto repair shop: "but stupidly the combustion chambers were increased and that's it." :) These are different products. I quote:

The creation of a standard series of diesel engines of a new dimension is dictated by the requirements of the strategic development of the Russian economy sectors.
A modern four-stroke, combined internal combustion engine with a dimension of 26,5 / 31 with a V-shaped arrangement of cylinders (12, 16, 20) with gas turbine supercharging and cooling of charge air, is designed for a wide range of new generation industrial products: diesel locomotives, ships, nuclear power plants.
Depending on the number of cylinders, the engines cover a power range from 2000 kW (2720 hp) to 7360 kW (10 hp), forming standardized series in which modifications unified in design are combined, differing in the number of cylinders and the level of forcing, complete set, etc.

The design solutions inherent in the engine are at the modern world level and make it possible to ensure technical and economic performance of the engine that meets the requirements of customers.

There are currently no manufacturers of such engines in Russia.

Of course, like any adequate person, I do not exclude technical problems with a new product, but I hope that all of them will be overcome. In the end, if anyone does not know, the program for the development of the domestic military shipbuilding is formed in such a way as to build new ships according to the principle "from small to large". Those. all new technologies are being tested at RTOs, corvettes and frigates in order to overcome all the problems and start building ships of larger displacement.
Yes, there are problems with 20380. Excellent. It is good that these problems arose before the construction of the destroyer. They made 20385 and will be equipped with new D500 engines, which will bring to mind.
Note that the stench is still worth the cost of these corvettes. At the same time, none of the pseudo-experts recalls that the rockets are already flying not a couple of hundred kilometers, but a couple of thousand! Ouch! Take the globe away from the child and see what can be done by these ships of the coastal zone with the Kalibr-NK complex, whose firing range is estimated by real military experts (not the sofa army) at 2500-2600 km. And the cost of these ships just entirely depends on the installed weapons. Therefore, such "expensive". In addition, I repeat, all mistakes made on a corvette are ten times cheaper than mistakes made on destroyers and cruisers.
Please also read about the strategy of spreading death:
https://defendingrussia.ru/a/rasprostranenije_smerti_rossijskaja_i_amerikanskaja
_versii-4099 /

Then there will be no questions at all.

[CHILD]

.... well, something like that is understandable ... from scratch in such a time in a working sample .... there are no miracles))) ... it is clear that the snot will be ... well, let's hope heal to an acceptable level.

[Alexanast]

How old is the 16D49?

[Alexey RA]

The description of diesel engines of type D49 was still in the "Industry catalog of diesel locomotives of the USSR 18-5-88".

[APASUS]

Su.ki salesmen have flooded our factory, and we just mastered under the license Vasa 22

[Valter1364]

The engines are raw and the sailors will have problems with them, of course, but you need to start when you need to. Good luck!

[lopvlad]

Quote: Valter1364

Crude engines and problems for sailors will certainly be with them

if so, then no new ship can be built. In fact, the entire filling of the ships of new projects is crude (for the most part only the hulls of some series are tested).

[Valter1364]

This is not about the cases and stuffing, but about the State Duma, and there are no miracles. To create a good marine engine of this class requires a cycle of 5 to 10 years.
Naturally, I write without gloating and worry about them, because half the life of the navy itself.

[lopvlad]

Quote: Valter1364

To create a good marine engine of this class requires a cycle of 5 to 10 years.

if it is created from complete zero (everything in the engine is 100% new from the operation algorithm to the last screw), and when there is a basis in the form of developments and a weaker engine, then everything happens much faster.

[Ros 56]

For 25 years now, the question has tormented me, what are our government thinking besides their pockets? It’s already time to return the execution. And Putin says his government is happy, so what about it?

[Roman 11]

Quote: Ros 56

And Putin says his government is happy, so what about it?

They will think about pockets. It has long been noticed, they begin to move when a wall shines on them. If anything, we get sailors and soldiers under Tomahawk, it is our duty to die, and they have more important things to do - the president won the slaves from Shikotan Island live, the situation is on the 21st century calendar, and slaves live on the disputed islands .. .... Why the government, if the president can do everything ..... or how Pugacheva sang - kings can do everything

[gladysheff2010]

Something is rather weak with your argumentation, read more, incl. comments from authoritative participants. But with propaganda slogans about "the harmfulness of Putin's regime" you are clearly on another site.

[senima56]

You yourself answered: "It's time to return the execution!" Here is to put one or the other director and technologist of the plant "against the wall" ..... And everything will be decided right away! When they understand that "the jokes are over," they will immediately work as they should and steal, if they do not stop altogether, but they will become less and with a look around!

[Alexanast]

It is good that, in fact, they did not forget about the plant and did not poher at all. The last time they were sausageing for children ... And so, you look and production will be adjusted and this is already a very good plus. And you don’t have to so bad at Kolomna engines, there are also good units. The experience in the production of units for the fleet is decent, and on drilling and some diesel locomotives, and in general for 40 years, everyone goes. This is about reliability. Even they are not in a hurry to write off diesel locomotives with our engines, and they are already very many years old.

[Ros 56]

And this is not the former "Kolomna steam locomotive plant", something is spinning in the memory.

[Alexanast]

No, this is a real "Kolomna diesel locomotive plant"

[Alexey RA]

Quote: Alexanast

It is good that, in fact, they did not forget about the plant and did not poher at all. The last time they were sausageing for children ... And so, you look and production will be adjusted and this is already a very good plus. And you don’t have to so bad at Kolomna engines, there are also good units. The experience in the production of units for the fleet is decent, and on drilling and some diesel locomotives, and in general for 40 years, everyone goes.

Just the engines for railway transport are the main ones for the Kolomensky plant. They have long and tightly seated on orders from the same Russian Railways, which feed them well.
And naval diesel engines for them are small-scale production with an overly demanding customer (distracting from making money on conventional serial railway diesel engines). And they treat her in the same way - quietly releasing everything that is possible on the brakes, and, not shaky, not roll, correcting what it was not possible to get rid of. The same "Guarding" will soon celebrate the anniversary: ​​"10 years of problems with the power plant."
Yes, and MTU diesel engines in the fleet appeared just as a result of the operation of Kolomna engines and communication between the fleet and industry.

[Roman 11]

Quote: Alexey RA

And naval diesel engines for them are low-volume products with an excessively demanding customer (distracting from making money on ordinary serial railway diesels).

Well, no one is interested in us in strengthening the defense of either the government or industry!

[Roman 11]

Quote: Valter1364

This is not about the cases and stuffing, but about the State Duma, and there are no miracles. To create a good marine engine of this class requires a cycle of 5 to 10 years.

Okay. Sanctions will not be lifted on this horizon, even if they float somehow. When the next one is ready, they will replace it. No more options. Why not build ships at all? And so the fleets were dilapidated.
But what about gas engines and KTEU? Well, the latter seem to have been completely abandoned, but the gas turbines ... there is still one project 61, which confirms the resource reliability - 40 years of solid experience!

[LÄRZ]

Quote: Valter1364

The engines are raw and the sailors will have problems with them, of course, but when you need to start

I agree. In the "battle" flaws will appear, but in no other way, time does not wait. "Only the one who does nothing is not mistaken." Correct, "shamanize". On an expensive journey!

[Kibalchish]

Yes, how raw are they? These 16D49 are senile! MTU yields in almost all respects. Compare yourself - blinded for a while to be, and the sailors suffer. With such diesels far from shore, scary
http://www.kolomnadiesel.com/productions/diesel_engine/d49/behaviour/
http://www.transdiesel.com/app_docs/MTU%2020V4000M93.pdf

[Alexanast]

I asked one - is silent. I will ask you.
How much

16D49 old-fashioned

And in general, where did you get the idea that they will be put on.
It is clearly written there

who created power plants with a capacity of 7500 kW each

[Kibalchish]

Information about what exactly this diesel will be put here and not only:
http://militaryrussia.ru/blog/topic-450.html

Here is information on the "new" Kolomna diesel engine, which will be installed on corvettes:
http://flotprom.ru/2015/%CF%F0%EE%EC%FB%F8%EB%E5%ED%ED%EE%F1%F2%FC23/?sphrase_id

= 3004157

The 16d49 engine was mass-produced in 2006. Now he was simply forced to give more power and install it on ships. Despite the fact that he began to give out more power than MTU, from this he was easier and most importantly did not become more reliable.

[Alexanast]

At the first stage, it was decided to put what is produced in series. This installation is original and quite fresh, we made it in 2006. But again, it has less power than MTU. At the next stages, it is planned to put on this project a new generation of engines that we designed as part of the federal target program for the development of diesel engineering. By order of shipbuilders, we have completed the technical design of an engine with a capacity of 7500 kW

Somehow

[rubidiy]

so the main thing is to curse everything. Why think ??? :)
it's about the D500. If I understand correctly, then on 20380 they put 16D49, with which problems arose. The government scratched turnips and ordered German ones. In 2014, sanctions were imposed, and they had to force the development themselves.

[Ros 56]

Quote: Valter1364

Good luck!

And you remember, dear, how the Su-27 was created, because when it was developed, all the documentation was thrown into the trash, and everyone started all over again from scratch. Iron, it is iron in Africa. There would be a desire and motivation. The soul must be invested, it will not do with money alone.

[Archikah]

What will be the engine resource. Very powerful engines, with equal weight and size characteristics, often have to repair and carry out maintenance. And this is time and resources. Most often stand in the base and in the ship's dock.

[Maxom75]

I doubt that the mass-dimensional characteristics are equivalent. Failures usually begin to emerge at full speed or when maneuvering (frequent change of modes). The most painful topic is the turbine, that's how it will behave this question. The ship at full speed moves extremely rarely - it is not economical. More powerful engines are even better, the load will be less on them and the resource should be higher, and I don’t know what the gearboxes will be. Most likely, the autonomy of navigation will be reduced, the fuel supply will not be enough. Powerful engine - higher consumption. Shorter time will tell. From the experience of working with German engines (mainly DG), the best, more stable, more economical ones work, the span from MOT to MOT more than ours.

[igor.borov775]

Ask the French. They have light weight engines but give a lot. Do not complain.

[kostya-petrov]

What fleet is this corvette planned for?
As far as is known, the "Provorny" corvette will serve in the Black Sea Fleet.

[Wiruz]

As far as is known, the "Provorny" corvette will serve in the Black Sea Fleet.

Hardly. Once, by chance, someone hinted at this topic and that’s it. In the same way, it was said that Gorshkov and Kasatonov would leave for the Black Sea Fleet.
Most likely, the American submarines will leave for the North

[Haloperidol]

Wikipedia says that the Gremyashchy corvette is being built for the Northern Fleet, and the Agile one for the Black Sea.

[Teberii]

We can but why we constantly decide everything for the time being.

[black]

Yes, we all can. Just sometimes the kick is not enough.

[donavi49]

On the Intelligent, for example, marriage, all 4 engines were taken apart, the warranty group. They promise to push it out on 9 of May. But not a fact. Combine with current repair.

At present, Severnaya Verf specialists have carried out work on the ship's bottom and outboard fittings, and Kolomensky Zavod specialists who arrived from the Moscow region have completely disassembled the corvette's diesel engines.

And again, about Stoykiy, who lost the 3 diesel, in fact, in the first distillation exit from the plant to the base at the duty station:
In the fall of 2014, three out of four diesel generators were out of order on the Stoyky corvette. One of them broke down during the ship's passage from St. Petersburg to Baltiysk.

[uskrabut]

and disperse managers from the factory

[Alexanast]

I completely agree, and to drive out all both "effective" and defective.

[x.andvlad]

The General Designer of the Kolomna Plant reports that this is the first experience in creating engines of such power for the fleet in modern Russia.
Finally. If only the first experience would not be "lumpy". Their ships must have their own engines.
Of course, there will be some problems and some improvements will be required, but this is a good start.

[donavi49]

The engines are old, D49. They just filed them a bit and forced (the ship scored 500 tons of I / O, and with the same machine as on 20380 the speed would have dipped to 20, and there would be 25 nodes as planned).

New Hope Kolmny D500. While it exists only in experimental units on 12 cylinders, this year should be the first production units for Russian Railways. The naval 16-20 will be closer to the 2020 year.

[rubidiy]

Quote: donavi49

Naval 16-20 will be closer to 2020.

here again ... until 2020 it is planned to launch 16 (!) corvettes of this project. Even if we take into account the budget cuts, all the same, before the 20th year, about ten should be built. You are now officially informed in the news that engines with a capacity of 7500 kW will be installed in May. Do you have any terribly insider information that fundamentally refutes the existence of these engines in nature? I repeat once again: 10 corvettes until the 20th. If everything was as deplorable as you want, then MO would have ordered some Chinese or Korean engines. It's just a breakdown of the whole series means. Do you understand this?

[Roman 11]

Quote: rubidiy

If everything was as deplorable as you want, then MO would have ordered some Chinese or Korean engines. It's just a breakdown of the whole series means. Do you understand this?

Why argue? Remained a month, we'll see.

[rubidiy]

Quote: Novel 11

Why argue? Remained a month, we'll see.

but I don’t argue. Information about the diesels that put on Thundering, no. Neither the Moscow Region nor the Kolomna Plant provide it. It simply says that the engines are redesigned in terms of quality. D500 is or upgraded D49, just not indicated. Therefore, it is impossible to assert something without being an employee of the respective enterprises.
As for the D49, there are questions only in the sense that the manufacturer’s website does not corny give any information about the version with a capacity of ~ 7000 kW.

[dauria]

Finally. If only the first experience would not be "lumpy".

Yes, even if only "lumpy". Mistakes are also experiences. Experience is a whole chain of industries and people. All of it will remain ours. And to the German hard workers, hello and don't get sick. (Yes, kiss Frau from our machine builders, I deserve it)

[yahont]

Good luck to the factory workers.

[Alex von Dorn]

Engines have always been a problem in Russia, unfortunately. According to the aviation breakthrough, there is PS-14. I hope for a breakthrough on the sea. Good luck

[fzr1000]

PD only 14

[uskrabut]

we can do engines for space, which means we can do for the fleet. Here the main culture of production and competent engineers, not managers .... t (nasty word).

[svp67]

So that's kind of positive news. But it is alarming that the first ship with these engines will be the "Thundering", not the "Silent", "Reliable" or "Omnipresent". And what do you call the boat, so it will float, I would like practice to refute this statement

[bocsman]

Quote: svp67

So that's kind of positive news. But it is alarming that the first ship with these engines will be the "Thundering", not the "Silent", "Reliable" or "Omnipresent". And what do you call the boat, so it will float, I would like practice to refute this statement

"Thundering fire, sparkling with the brilliance of steel, machines will go on a furious march," etc.
I think the name is from this song and it is closer to the truth.

[Roman 11]

Quote: bocsman

I think the name is from this song and it is closer to the truth.

Hardly. This is from the guards destroyer of the SF during the war years, fought well!

[rubidiy]

Quote: svp67

But it worries that the first ship with these engines will be "Thundering"

the analogy with the destroyers of project 7 is disturbing. There were many problems with them. And the "Thundering" himself served faithfully ... until he was used as a target in nuclear weapons tests.

[faridg7]

That's interesting, but is there really no alternative to diesel engines in the fleet? In my opinion, a gas turbine engine is more reliable. It seems that gas turbine engines (6 units in two engine rooms) stood on the BOD, Sailors, can you explain?

[Ros 56]

They consume a lot of GTE fuel, and a diesel is more reliable, this is an axiom.

[kepmor]

"Kerogazka" in operation is much more reliable, simpler and more convenient than diesel - ask any mechanic.
And the consumption depends on the mode ... if you "prancing" constantly at 25 nodes, then much diesel fuel will not be enough. and if calmly on "marching", then 14-16 knots. "behind the eyes and ears".
From poverty and slovenliness (there were no own turbines, and there are no) it was necessary to return to the "Stone Age" - diesel locomotive diesel engines were installed on ships.
Look at the performance characteristics of foreign analogues 20380-all gas turbines are standing and diesel fuel is not particularly worried in reserve.

[Maxom75]

We always had a problem with turbines, well, our turbines do not go for a long time, and in the Navy the resource is of great importance. Otherwise, each squadron will have to carry a couple of repair ships.

[faridg7]

Is a diesel more reliable than a turbine? I would be at the department of the theory of machine parts for such a pair would be rolled in, you’ll fix the fuck

[Alexey RA]

Quote: faridg7

That's interesting, but is there really no alternative to diesel engines in the fleet? In my opinion, a gas turbine engine is more reliable. It seems that gas turbine engines (6 units in two engine rooms) stood on the BOD, Sailors, can you explain?

Theoretically, there is an alternative. And practically the RF has no gas turbine engine.
The first domestic gas turbine engines promise somewhere in 2017-2018. And they will go first of all to unfinished frigates.

So in the next 5 years, our choice is very poor: either a Daewoo or a nuclear power plant.

[2nd 12th]

Nice to read that things are going. The road will be overcome by a walker Modify the engines.

[Verdun]

I used to doubt it. But now I see that the benefits of sanctions are becoming more obvious. What else would Russia do to stop buying oil from it? You look, we will live like people ...

[Roman 11]

Quote: Verdun

What else would Russia do to stop buying oil from it?

A mere trifle! To accept Abandoned Land Act

[bad]

okay that at least somehow they started to move .. you look and they’ll start doing better ..

[Irokez]

Quote: Verdun

I used to doubt it. But now I see that the benefits of sanctions are becoming more obvious.

All difficulties and obstacles are only for the good and development. It has long been known that those who are well-fed and pampered begin to degrade and die out over time because they do not strive and do not go to development, they only parasitize, but you know that they parasitize or poison them.
Therefore, if you want to live and develop, you need difficulties. Gradually development is small difficulties, and rapid development and strong growth are big obstacles that give food for the mind how to overcome them. Therefore, the following makes sense: "If everything is fine, then you need to create an obstacle or obstacle in order to overcome it and thereby grow and rise." After the collapse of the USSR, we were told: "Why do if you can buy", so we bought (degraded) for energy and lost the machine-tool building, tractor building and a bunch of other industries, and now "SANCTIONS" are like manna from heaven for us, for our own good. God sees everything and loves us, and with these difficulties he lifts us up. Everything will be fine (I found out). )))
To be honest, I myself would have extended the sanctions for another 2-3 years.

[Verdun]

Quote: Irokez

To be honest, I myself would have extended the sanctions for another 2-3 years.

It seems to me that you can’t do this for 2-3 years ...