Military Review

New test hypersonic weapons held in China

94
The PRC Defense Ministry conducted a successful test of the hypersonic maneuvering head part of the ICBM, reports MIC with a link to The Washington Free Beacon.




According to the American resource, "the test of the DF-ZF shock apparatus was recorded last Friday; it was launched by an intercontinental ballistic missile from the Uchzhai test site in the central Chinese province of Shanxi."

"The lethal apparatus separated from the carrier in the upper atmosphere, and then planned for a target located several thousand kilometers in the west of China," writes the publication with reference to a military source.

It is noted that "the flight of the DF-ZF, which took place at a speed five times faster than the speed of sound, was tracked by American reconnaissance satellites." According to the interlocutor, “potentially the flight speed of the device can be ten times higher than the speed of sound.”

The US intelligence community "believes that China’s development of a hypersonic aircraft is designed to ensure a breakthrough of the US missile defense system and a nuclear strike," the article says.

According to the information, DF-ZF can also be used "as a strategic means for delivering conventional warheads to targets in any part of the world within one hour."

This is the 7 test of the Chinese hypersonic weapons.
Photos used:
https://www.therealstrategy.com
94 comments
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  1. Vladimirets
    Vladimirets April 28 2016 18: 11
    +9
    Well done, nothing to say, but what about us?
    1. Wolverine
      Wolverine April 28 2016 18: 29
      +16
      Russia has long told everyone to sit on the pope exactly ...
      1. The comment was deleted.
      2. Denis Obukhov
        Denis Obukhov April 28 2016 18: 56
        +7
        Americans understand that they again lowered hundreds of lards for missile defense in the toilet
        1. Talgat
          Talgat April 29 2016 19: 13
          +4
          In fact, the Chinese are still lagging behind Russia in terms of strategic nuclear forces in confronting the amers. But well done anyway - go ahead

          No wonder they say that sadly - but the 21 century is a century of confrontation between the United States and China - which will replace the USSR in this post.
      3. Ktor
        Ktor 1 May 2016 14: 02
        +5
        Good answer
    2. Dimontius
      Dimontius April 28 2016 18: 42
      +33
      Something I'm not at all happy about this news, even a little anxiety increased. Their whole horde, and even with hypersound. And they can stamp them with a carriage and a small cart. One reassures, maybe Status-6 will soon say its word.
      1. demchuk.ig
        demchuk.ig April 28 2016 18: 58
        +11
        Quote: Dimontius
        Something I'm not happy about this news at all, even a little anxiety increased

        I have exactly the same feelings! Today they are like friends to us, and tomorrow?
        1. Komrad.Garik
          Komrad.Garik April 28 2016 19: 44
          +6
          They are on any account more sane than the Americans, and to siege the imperial manners of the fascist "exceptional" amers is very timely and very pleasing.
          1. Lex.
            Lex. April 28 2016 20: 04
            +7
            They are by any means more sane than the Americans, and to siege the imperial manners of fascism They are by anyone more sane than the Americans, and to siege the imperial manners of the fascist "exceptional" amers - very timely and very happy. The "exceptional" amers are very timely and very happy.
            Sane, well, the Chinese have their own plans for the future
            1. Ivan Ivanov
              Ivan Ivanov April 30 2016 12: 01
              +3
              Do we have a lot of choices? With China, on the whole, contradictions and foreign policy are agreed upon, with the amers continuous contra. How they end is well known.
          2. The comment was deleted.
          3. NordUral
            NordUral April 28 2016 20: 20
            +3
            It would have been nice, but history has taught that sanity is often replaced by political madness. And China, in general, is a complicated story.
            1. Svetlana
              Svetlana April 29 2016 07: 44
              +3
              Such greetings were regularly heard from the other side of the Amur:
              Ardent greetings to the residents of Blagoveshchensk temporarily residing in our territory!
        2. Platonich
          Platonich April 29 2016 04: 10
          +5
          Our friends are only the Army and Navy !!!
      2. Rus2012
        Rus2012 April 28 2016 20: 04
        +10
        Quote: Dimontius
        Something I'm not happy about this news at all

        ... just need to learn to read between the lines. Nothing just happens by chance ... And the synchronization of launches of Russian and Chinese hypers says a lot laughing
        1. Rus2012
          Rus2012 April 29 2016 20: 58
          +1
          Quote: Rus2012
          And the synchronization of launches of Russian and Chinese hyper says a lot


          just a continuation of the topic -
          a month before the start of the NATO exercises, The Russian Federation and China will hold the first missile defense computer exercise "Aerospace Safety-2016." The main goal of the exercise is to work out joint actions of the quickly created air defense and missile defense groups of Russia and China to protect territories from accidental and provocative attacks by ballistic and cruise missiles.
          ...
          In addition, such a serious desire of NATO countries to rattle arms in Poland fades a bit against the news of tests of the latest generation of missiles, invulnerable to NATO weapons, in particular, for missile defense systems. Moreover, both Russia and China conducted successful tests, literally with a difference of several days (it's certainly about hyper BB) ...

          It’s obvious that while the US is “shaking” and arming eastern Europe, Russia and China are improving their capabilities in their own missile defense and in overcoming the enemy’s missile defense.


          Source: http://politikus.ru/army/75251-rossiysko-kitayskiy-otvet-na-masshtabnye-ucheniya
          -nato.html
      3. Svetlana
        Svetlana April 28 2016 20: 52
        +3
        Quote: Dimontius
        One reassures, maybe Status-6 will soon say its word.

        Anecdote from the 80s: Leonid Brezhnev wakes up at night in a cold sweat and shouts: "Bury the Moscow River, fill up the channel, immediately !!!"
        The doctor on duty asks: "What happened, Comrade Brezhnev? Brezhnev replies:" I had a nightmare: Lenin was floating on the Moscow River past the Kremlin in a boat, measuring the depth of the fairway and saying: "Here the Aurora will pass, here it will also pass ... "
    3. Rus2012
      Rus2012 April 28 2016 20: 01
      +3
      Quote: Vladimirets
      Well done, nothing to say, but what about us?

      19.04.2016 extreme test from the position area of ​​the 13 missile division of the Strategic Missile Forces (Yasny).
      Test run. 15Y71 carrier - ICBM RS-18Б / 15А35 / УР-100НУТТХ, launch from silos.
      Data - http://militaryrussia.ru/
      1. Simple
        Simple April 28 2016 21: 43
        +1
        "The ultimate test" ....
        . 100% of citizens of the Russian Federation: climbers, divers, commandos, pilots ...
        ?
        Well, do not distort you great and mighty!
        Eyes, ears hurt. The brain will fade
  2. Muvka
    Muvka April 28 2016 18: 12
    +2
    5M? Our kind of much greater speeds are trying to achieve ...
    1. Dr. Bormental
      Dr. Bormental April 28 2016 18: 30
      +7
      We have 6-7 mach. But it seems like after all the tests they say about 10-12. The information is very scarce, and it is understandable.
      1. Muvka
        Muvka April 28 2016 18: 40
        +2
        Quote: Dr. Bormental
        We have 6-7 mach. But it seems like after all the tests they say about 10-12. The information is very scarce, and it is understandable.

        Well, so am I about the same.
      2. Asadullah
        Asadullah April 28 2016 20: 06
        +2
        We have 6-7 mach.


        The question is not in the wings. The question is in controlled flight. Well, we already come back to this question from time to time. laughing It is not difficult to disperse, it is difficult to protect from destruction and that the target would be hit, at least approximately into it.)
      3. mig29mks
        mig29mks April 28 2016 21: 39
        0
        15 thousand km / h the speed of our falling rocket !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    2. The comment was deleted.
  3. epsilon571
    epsilon571 April 28 2016 18: 29
    +7
    I want to note that France has also joined this kind of new race of hypersonic weapons. The Minister of Defense of the Fifth Republic announced the start of development of a new generation of missiles, during which hypersonic technologies will be studied. Beijing plans to adopt the product in 2020.

    Hypersonic flight is indistinguishable for modern means of radar, and the creation of effective means of intercepting such missiles is not yet expected. Recently, hypersonic weapons were called one of the priority areas of development in Russia and the United States. “There is no lag in Russia in this direction, we are at approximately the same level,” said Colonel General Viktor Yesin, former commander of the Strategic Missile Forces of Russia.

    Russian developers promise to design the first airborne hypersonic missiles over the next six years. “We have come to this. We are talking about speeds of up to six to eight M. Achieving higher speeds is a task of a farther perspective, ”said Boris Obnosov, general director of the Tactical Missile Weapons Corporation (KTRV).

    P / S However, the Chinese already have up to 10 M.
    1. Muvka
      Muvka April 28 2016 18: 42
      +4
      Where is 10 then, if only 5?
    2. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
      Andrei from Chelyabinsk April 28 2016 19: 13
      +3
      Quote: epsilon571
      P / S However, the Chinese already have up to 10 M.

      Please read the news carefully :)))
      1) Any blank inserted into the "upper layers of the atmosphere" (in common parlance - near space) falling down will pick up these same 5M. Those. all the Chinese had to do was put a dvigun, which would push the device towards the target. It is practically no different from a conventional ballistic missile. Her warhead also goes on hypersound in the atmosphere.
      2) 10M - POTENTIAL, and even according to the United States.
      1. Rus2012
        Rus2012 April 28 2016 20: 14
        +1
        Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
        This is practically no different from a conventional ballistic missile. Her warhead also in the atmosphere goes on hypersound

        Dear colleague, has several parameters ...
        First, "hyper BB" walk along a flat, quasi-ballistic, high-energy-consuming trajectory. Secondly, they can maneuver along the track. Third, they stay in the air (upper layers) longer than the usual fall along a ballistic parabola. Accordingly, the heat resistance of hyper should be higher than that of conventional BBs.

        ... although it is possible to arrange a quasihyper BB. We have already discussed this.
      2. Nikolaevich I
        Nikolaevich I April 29 2016 04: 52
        +1
        Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
        what the Chinese needed to do was put a dvigun, which would push the device towards the target.

        ... so that in a second or two the device falls apart !? If it were so easy to "compose" a hypersonic unit, they would be "long and everywhere!" But the engineers declared and still declare that the creation of real "hypers" is still a serious problem!
    3. mig29mks
      mig29mks April 28 2016 21: 33
      0
      Look at your leisure, here about how things are with us today with weapons https://vk.com/video-78864563_171502424g moment of truth from 18.01.2016
  4. LÄRZ
    LÄRZ April 28 2016 18: 31
    +2
    And the Chinese are silent, do not say anything, do not write. For whom it is necessary, he saw. And appreciated. Well done!
    1. Dr. Bormental
      Dr. Bormental April 28 2016 18: 37
      +3
      Quote: LÄRZ
      And the Chinese are silent, do not say anything, do not write

      But they are generally silent ... sniff into two nozzles, pick something on the sly, and then how they will give out .. no one will seem fellow
      1. LÄRZ
        LÄRZ April 28 2016 19: 45
        +8
        Quote: Dr. Bormental
        But they are generally silent ... sniff into two nozzles, pick something on the sly, and then how they will give out .. no one will seem

        For what roads! As it is said: "Who said and did not, the monkey, who said and did — that tiger, who did not say, but did — that lion."
        1. Dr. Bormental
          Dr. Bormental April 28 2016 20: 18
          +3
          A beautiful saying, I'll take it into service))) hi
        2. Dr. Bormental
          Dr. Bormental April 28 2016 20: 18
          +1
          A beautiful saying, I'll take it into service))) hi
    2. The comment was deleted.
  5. Dr. Bormental
    Dr. Bormental April 28 2016 18: 34
    +4
    The US intelligence community “believes that China’s development of a hypersonic aircraft is designed to guarantee a breakthrough in the US missile defense system and deliver a nuclear strike”

    I don’t believe Amers ... they also shouted about our tests that they say they want to do a missile defense to them useless ... probably minke whales are also developing something, but so far they are silent am
  6. Prisoner
    Prisoner April 28 2016 18: 47
    +5
    The neighbors managed to get something during the "flourishing of democracy".
  7. swetlana1
    swetlana1 April 28 2016 18: 48
    +12
    I would like to clarify. The speed of a maneuvering warhead is always lower than the speed of an uncontrolled warhead (due to energy loss during maneuvering). Therefore, achieving M = 10 (at the target) - it is already present in uncontrolled warheads (at a higher altitude it is even higher).
    About our maneuvering blocks - two years ago they were placed in the open press
    http://yablor.ru/blogs/rossiyskaya-giperzvukovaya-manevrir/5146172
    The Chinese BB enters the dense layers of the atmosphere and becomes hypersonic and maneuvering there. By knocking it down, a nuclear explosion will still occur - albeit with lesser consequences. the Americans are trying to shoot down far beyond the atmosphere (or in the atmosphere at the take-off site) and are not particularly developing means of short-range missile defense - in the atmospheric sector near their territory. They don't think it's dangerous. I wonder why? Even work on increasing the range of destruction of interceptor missiles to 1000 ... 2000 km has been "frozen". It is also strange - why? Looking forward to the first blow?
    1. Vladimirets
      Vladimirets April 28 2016 18: 57
      +7
      Quote: swetlana1
      They do not consider it dangerous. I wonder why?

      They do not consider this possible, not dangerous. Interception is possible on the first part of the trajectory, not on the last, and is unlikely to be possible in the near future with available and promising means.
      1. swetlana1
        swetlana1 April 30 2016 07: 46
        +6
        They do not consider this possible, not dangerous. [/ quote]

        Very interesting conclusion !! Now the question is: Why do they not consider this possible ??
    2. Ardein
      Ardein April 28 2016 19: 04
      +8
      They ALWAYS (in all their strategic plans - at least declassified) counted on the first blow.

      Ours mainly use the mobility and stealth of our (including ground) carriers and Perimeter-type systems.
      http://topwar.ru/29887-sistema-perimetr.html

      The theme is that even if no one was left alive on our territory, who could give the order for a counterattack, our warheads would still avenge us.
      1. NordUral
        NordUral April 28 2016 20: 25
        +1
        Yes, the presence of "Perimeter" pleases the souls of potential deceased.
    3. Dr. Bormental
      Dr. Bormental April 28 2016 19: 06
      +4
      belay like this Svetlana .... you need to be generals, not ordinary smile For the first time, I see a girl operating in military technical terms hi Personally, I've just recently learned the word "swing", in relation to hypersound ... I'm very proud)))
      1. opus
        opus April 28 2016 22: 44
        +1
        Quote: Dr. Bormental
        ..You need to be generals, not ordinary

        CE burdened.

        oanos ("shape-shifter") .It's bright.

        I wrote
        Quote: opus
        ZY2. Doubts torment me that madam "Svetlana" is by no means "svetlana", and what is the thread of Sudarik "Slava", "Seryozha" from twinkOV ..
        I'm right?
    4. The comment was deleted.
    5. NordUral
      NordUral April 28 2016 20: 23
      +4
      Counting on the first blow?
      So they do not hide it.
    6. voyaka uh
      voyaka uh April 28 2016 20: 42
      +5
      "they do not particularly develop means of defense of short-range missile defense - in the atmospheric sector near their territory. They do not consider this dangerous." ////

      10 M do not shoot down over the target. Medium-range BRs are being shot down, and ICBMs are currently unrealistic.
      1. Svetlana
        Svetlana April 28 2016 21: 20
        +3
        Quote: voyaka uh
        10 M do not shoot down over the target.

        The accelerator on the backward microwave wave of Alexei Bogomolov will be able to deactivate 10M BB over the target.
        1. Svetlana
          Svetlana April 28 2016 21: 37
          +5
          10M BB over target.
        2. opus
          opus April 28 2016 22: 22
          +1
          Quote: Svetlana
          The accelerator on the backward microwave wave of Alexei Bogomolov will be able to deactivate 10M BB over the target.

          what does BWLAP / ABC3 (2) D have to do with "deactivating" the BB?




          ZY. write Medvedev D.A.


          it will "stick" 100%
          ZY2. I am tormented by doubts that madam "Svetlana" is not "Svetlana" at all, but what a thread of sudarik "Slava", "Seryozha" from twinkOV .. wink
          I'm right?
      2. opus
        opus April 28 2016 22: 55
        +2
        Quote: voyaka uh
        10 M do not shoot down over the target. Medium-range BRs are being shot down, and ICBMs are currently unrealistic.

        The most "smart" Minuteman-3.
        speed BG 3,2-3,8km / s at? ..
        At an altitude of 35 km.
        C-400:

        (4800m / s - in maha translate?)
        THAAD missiles to 4500 m / s (translate to max?)
        GBI - intercepts warheads at speeds up to 8km / s *
        SM-3-intercepts warheads at speeds up to 8km / s **
        * if only the approach speed of BG and * KV does not exceed 10km / S
        ** if only the BG and * KV rapprochement rates do not exceed 12 km / s

        The point is not speed, and in the trajectory, its curvature (angle of elevation of the line of sight of the target)

        According to data from the Report American Rhysical Society (and they are not suckers in this matter), a typical profile of active flight of solid-fuel ICBMs is as follows.


        The flight on 10 000 km of the decommissioned MX Peacekeeper would supposedly last 28 minutes at v_0 = 7.1 km / s, \ alpha = 13.6 deg and with the apogee of 860 km. Apparently, significantly flatter trajectories are impractical due to excessive heating while decreasing by the target
        (For the Minuteman-3 trajectory, the situation with heating looks less dramatic. Namely, below 10 km the warhead will be 4.3 seconds, and the time of descent from 35 to 20 km will be reduced to 6.6 seconds.)

        And ICBMs, as a rule:

        That's all the "problems"

        The radar has the same THAAD-Scanning angles in elevation: 10-60 °
        SAM is one thing to gain altitude 400 km at a distance of 600km ... and it is quite another to gain 400 km at a range of 50 km ..

        and for the GPZ LA it is even more complicated: it can actively change the altitude and azimuthal speed without losing its linear speed (because its speed is not a consequence of Ek and Ep)
        1. voyaka uh
          voyaka uh April 28 2016 23: 22
          +5
          Thank you for the clarification.
          That is, if I understood correctly, when the head of an ICBM falls vertically on an object,
          guarded by missile defense, the missile launched towards it has a chance to destroy it
          direct hit at an altitude of 50 km, despite its enormous speed?
          I thought that the MSA (radar, comp) did not have time to react and give the command to shoot.
          Correct if not so.
          1. opus
            opus April 29 2016 01: 01
            +3
            Quote: voyaka uh
            That is, if I understood correctly, when the ICBM head falls vertically onto an object guarded by a missile defense, then a missile launched towards it has a chance to destroy it by a direct hit at an altitude of 50 km, despite its enormous speed

            No, a little bit wrong.
            See any manufacturer (Almaz-Antey or Lockheed Martin Missiles and Space, etc.) specifies the maximum target speed that their SAM can intercept.
            But it does not indicate which (velocity vector): towards, catch up, azimuthal, radial, etc.

            As a rule (С-400) is no exception) it is an AZIMUTAL speed, i.e. (I draw on my knee)

            (it is difficult to depict 3D on a flat sheet, and my hands have become quite crooked)

            1. It will allow the angle of sight (and MBR sooo high 850 km and at an angle 20-40gr from the vertical they’re approaching the target)
            2. The Zur will be able to gain the vertical speed required to intercept (maneuver) - the chance increases (2-4 sec SAM, even with an inclined start uncontrollable)
            3. As an example: a "hole" in the zonal air defense for the S-300F (in my opinion, up to 20 degrees of solid angle from the vertical)
            Quote: voyaka uh
            I thought that the MSA (radar, comp) did not have time to react and give the command to shoot

            Well, here is the angular resolution, scanning speed (the computer is in time now, the radar is not always).
            it all depends on the VECTOR of the target’s speed (not only its scalar value, but also the direction
            1. voyaka uh
              voyaka uh April 29 2016 09: 52
              +4
              Thanks again.
              You have interesting interesting posts.
              I always try to figure them out.
    7. opus
      opus April 28 2016 20: 45
      +1
      Quote: swetlana1
      I would like to clarify. The speed of a maneuvering warhead is always lower than the speed of an uncontrolled warhead (due to energy loss during maneuvering). Therefore, achieving M = 10 (at the target) - it is already present in uncontrolled warheads (at a higher altitude it is even higher).

      No need to specify. Hypersonic flight implies flying in the environment (the atmosphere in our case) under the action of traction (using an engine / propulsion), when the drag and gravity are compensated by the traction of the apparatus and the lifting force. Long time over significant distances.
      All the rest of the lisps ("Any blank inserted into the" upper layers of the atmosphere "(in common parlance - near space) will pick up these same 5M when falling down."), About warheads, BGs, reentry spacecraft, have nothing to do with the issue under consideration.

      Quote: swetlana1
      two years ago were placed in the open press

      Igor Korotchenko has a "specific education", far from both the GPZ of the aircraft, and from warheads / warheads and from ICBMs and from the center of Makeev

      The circumstances of the dismissal of the 34-year-old Korotchenko from the General Staff in the 1994 year are not completely clear, by age he clearly did not fit the retirement ....
      Executive appearance, gray hair is not everything
      "High-speed maneuvering warhead" only CD, in the form of advertising provided at the GRTs exhibition
      Quote: swetlana1
      Killing him - a nuclear explosion will happen anyway

      It is enough to destroy the case or "knock it off the patnalygi": uncontrolled rotation or damage to the TYPE will lead to the destruction of the block
      Quote: swetlana1
      and they do not particularly develop short-range missile defense means - in the atmospheric area near their territory.

      TNAAD, Patriot-3, GBI, SM-3 ... how is it "not developed"?
      1. godofwar6699
        godofwar6699 April 28 2016 22: 33
        +4
        darpa. not china lol
        1. opus
          opus April 28 2016 22: 42
          +2
          Quote: godofwar6699
          darpa. not china

          who would doubt it.
          China is a socialist state in East Asia. The world's largest state population (over 1,36 billion goals)
          DARPA Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency) - an agency of advanced defense research projects - agency Pentagon
          state and agencyhow can you compare them?

          You probably mean the CNSA or the junweikejiwei agency (I am writing English transcription, I don’t understand Chinese) from Pinyin (R&D)?

          Is not a fact!
          China spent $ 147 000 000 000,00 last year on R&D

          DARPA $ 2.8 billion annual budget
    8. opus
      opus April 29 2016 12: 40
      +1
      Quote: swetlana1
      I would like to clarify.

      Svetlana (Svetlana), forgive me "for God's sake" would like to clarify Are you a man or a woman?

      I now "there is a difference comrade", I would not like to get into a piquant situation in Thailand, having met a girl, but wake up with a HZK.
      Even in a dispute? Gthtgbcrt

      Let me explain: 101% of 100% of women hardly do not distinguish a "hole" from a "hole", but you are so serious with stamps.
      hi
      You are not Madame Kovalevskaya or Madame Curie?

      Quote: Dr. Bormental
      like this Svetlana .... you need to be generals, not ordinary soldiers smile For the first time, I see a girl operating in military technical terms hi Personally I just recently learned the word "max", in relation to hypersound ... very proud)))

      good
      And another question, if you may.
      You (swetlana1) are related to svetlana?



      Sisters Brothers? or two-faced Janus, i.e. twink?
      wink
  8. Verdun
    Verdun April 28 2016 19: 42
    +5
    This is the 7 test of Chinese hypersonic weapons.
    The prowling Chinese dragon, however. The Russian tiger is hiding ... But how is the bald eagle doing? Is he in stealth mode again?))
    1. Vladimirets
      Vladimirets April 28 2016 20: 06
      +7
      Quote: Verdun
      But how is the bald eagle doing? Is he in stealth mode again?))

      He waits for another half-dead fish to be thrown ashore. yes
    2. opus
      opus April 28 2016 20: 50
      +1
      Quote: Verdun
      Is he in stealth mode again?))




      it seems to be not particularly camouflaged, but Japs are in the know



      Students indulge in all
  9. Dulat
    Dulat April 28 2016 20: 33
    +4
    I myself am Kazakh, but I really want only Russia to own these technologies
    1. Dr. Bormental
      Dr. Bormental April 28 2016 22: 08
      +4
      Kazakhs are cool .. healed your brother. Patient and strong. The fighters are real And very grateful. They invited me to kill some kind of rams that go on their headlights at night .. I don’t remember what they are called. Kazakhs respect and respect hi
    2. The comment was deleted.
  10. sw6513
    sw6513 April 28 2016 21: 45
    +2
    China is not our friend at all - Siberia and the Far East are their goal. Do not forget Damansky!
    1. Dr. Bormental
      Dr. Bormental April 28 2016 22: 13
      +1
      And not a friend and not an enemy .. and so)))
    2. Dr. Bormental
      Dr. Bormental April 28 2016 22: 13
      +2
      And not a friend and not an enemy .. and so)))
  11. xtur
    xtur April 28 2016 21: 57
    +2
    planning a several thousand km hypersonic BG reminds us that even if the issue of communication through a plasma cloud is not resolved, even launching it on the known coordinates of the aircraft carrier will be fatal for it, or in extreme cases very dangerous - it is enough to release the required amount of BG throughout the field possible locations of the aircraft carrier, and if each carrier’s special, then even one or two hits on it will be enough to incapacitate it

    For any necessary outfit, an ICBM will cost a couple of orders cheaper than the aircraft carrier itself
    1. opus
      opus April 28 2016 22: 32
      +1
      Quote: xtur
      then even launching at the known coordinates of the aircraft carrier will be fatal for him

      The aircraft carrier will be shot from the "known" coordinates.
      25 knots ... per hour ... well, km 40 will be on the sidelines.
      THEY (AB) do not "stand" when practically (if not in port)
      Quote: xtur
      it is enough to release the required number of BG across the entire field of possible aircraft carrier locations

      Circles =

      1 256 000 000 square meters = 1256 square kilometers
      (this is at 25 nodes,and at 30?)

      St. Petersburg Square 1 439 km²

      Find (destroy) an aircraft carrier here?
      REMAIN WITHOUT PANTS (with a "normal" BZ, the affected area of ​​the fragmentation-compression warhead D = 10 sq.m. (314 sq.m), tactical YaBZ (let 1000m) = 3 140 000 sq.m

      Quote: xtur
      For any necessary outfit, an ICBM will cost a couple of orders cheaper than the aircraft carrier itself


      UGM-133A Trident II (D5) cost in 90 - $ 39 0000 000 (only ICBM itself). Warhead separately.
      At the turn of the 2012, the launch of UGM-133A Trident II (D5) cost $ 140-187 000 000 (including depreciation of nuclear submarines, salaries, insurance, fuel, etc., etc.)
      So consider.
      "A couple of orders" is 100 times ...
      1. xtur
        xtur April 28 2016 23: 46
        +3
        so the ICBM will fly from China to somewhere in the * Chinese / Yellow Sea, only 2000-3000km. this is approximately 6-7 minutes of flight, during which time the aircraft carrier will depart no more than 5 km.
        1. opus
          opus April 29 2016 01: 31
          +2
          Quote: xtur
          so the ICBM will fly from China to somewhere in the * Chinese / Yellow Sea of ​​all 2000-3000km.

          1.What is this МBR (INTERCONTINENTAL BR)
          2.y R-27k to 900km at PCB R-33 to 2000km

          MAXIMUM speed at the end of AC to 4000m / s
          .Medium path near 1000 m / s (I think cos- the projection of the vector on the earth's surface will be even smaller)
          Speed ​​of meeting with the target 300m / s

          900 000: 1000 = 1000 seconds

          2 000 000: 1500 (33 has more of this figure) = 1 340 sec

          What kind
          Quote: xtur
          6-7 min flight
          ?
    2. Nikolaevich I
      Nikolaevich I April 29 2016 05: 12
      +7
      That is, to "eliminate" the "lonely" aircraft carrier that has wandered into the fire, you propose to "stuff" a huge area with many megatons of "vigorous" weapons? belay And the fact that the truncated "earth hemisphere" will cease to exist is for you "incidentally acceptable" damage? fool stop
  12. Arktidianets
    Arktidianets April 28 2016 22: 16
    +6
    It’s quite possible that this is yet another info throw in order to convince Congress to increase the defense budget of the USA
  13. godofwar6699
    godofwar6699 April 28 2016 23: 05
    +4
    Quote: opus
    Quote: godofwar6699
    darpa. not china

    who would doubt it.
    China is a socialist state in East Asia. The world's largest state population (over 1,36 billion goals)
    DARPA Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency) - an agency of advanced defense research projects - agency Pentagon
    state and agencyhow can you compare them?

    You probably mean the CNSA or the junweikejiwei agency (I am writing English transcription, I don’t understand Chinese) from Pinyin (R&D)?

    Is not a fact!
    China spent $ 147 000 000 000,00 last year on R&D

    DARPA $ 2.8 billion annual budget

    I talked about the picture in the article. as a taxpayer I like DARPA
    1. opus
      opus April 28 2016 23: 12
      +4
      Quote: godofwar6699
      I talked about the picture in the article. as a taxpayer I like DARPA


      I myself like the DARPA swing. The result is the same.
      WildCat and BigDog
      Project Avatar
      Excalibur
      The Falcon Project
      Transformer
      Atlas
      Navigation chip (I can’t resist I’ll insert the picture, it inspires painfully)

      X-37
      Brain machine interfaces
      Miniature Pumps (CSVMP)

      Continue?

      Rusnano-rests (Skolkovo, however, the same).
      On this face:

      without the desire to catch in the collimator and press the trigger I can not watch (already pochutsdel)
      1. killganoff
        killganoff April 29 2016 10: 41
        +7
        I repeat. As long as such faces are at the side of our supreme commander, there will be no complete trust in the government.
  14. godofwar6699
    godofwar6699 April 28 2016 23: 56
    +6
    Quote: opus
    Quote: godofwar6699
    I talked about the picture in the article. as a taxpayer I like DARPA


    I myself like the DARPA swing. The result is the same.
    WildCat and BigDog
    Project Avatar
    Excalibur
    The Falcon Project
    Transformer
    Atlas
    Navigation chip (I can’t resist I’ll insert the picture, it inspires painfully)

    X-37
    Brain machine interfaces
    Miniature Pumps (CSVMP)

    Continue?

    Rusnano-rests (Skolkovo, however, the same).
    On this face:

    without the desire to catch in the collimator and press the trigger I can not watch (already pochutsdel)

    I don’t know what’s going on with Rusnano. but i know darpa
    1. opus
      opus April 29 2016 01: 12
      +4
      Quote: godofwar6699
      I don’t know what’s going on with Rusnano. but i know darpa

      I know "at the very least" DARPA (let's say at the level of requesting tasks for German and Finnish engineers)
      And I don’t want to know about RUSNANO.
      I'm only interested in when the circus will end?
      I agree with Zhirik:


      how can?



      about the "Gremlins" idea is good, let's see what comes out.
      in which case we will bring down the Lockheed C-130
    2. Nitarius
      Nitarius April 29 2016 05: 41
      +7
      you know less sleep better ... besides Rusnano there are more interesting structures! Rusnano is easier to hide behind!
      1. opus
        opus April 29 2016 12: 01
        +1
        Quote: Nitarius
        Rusnano is easier to hide behind!

        I'm not a "consonant".
        The "cover" is expensive.
  15. twincam
    twincam April 29 2016 00: 57
    +5
    Quote: demchuk.ig
    Quote: Dimontius
    Something I'm not happy about this news at all, even a little anxiety increased

    I have exactly the same feelings! Today they are like friends to us, and tomorrow?

    Well, you need to somehow go around pitfalls, vary, and not be a brick and scum on the first bunch.
    the world is constantly changing, so what is now locked in the room?
  16. godofwar6699
    godofwar6699 April 29 2016 05: 11
    +3
    Quote: opus
    Quote: godofwar6699
    I don’t know what’s going on with Rusnano. but i know darpa

    I know "at the very least" DARPA (let's say at the level of requesting tasks for German and Finnish engineers)
    And I don’t want to know about RUSNANO.
    I'm only interested in when the circus will end?
    I agree with Zhirik:


    how can?



    about the "Gremlins" idea is good, let's see what comes out.
    in which case we will bring down the Lockheed C-130

    Quote: opus
    Gremlins

    When I talk about these DARPA projects on the website they will kick me out lol
    and I get a lot -
    i guess this is my flag am
    1. opus
      opus April 29 2016 12: 07
      +1
      Quote: godofwar6699
      When I talk about these DARPA projects on the website, they will kick me out and I get a lot -

      Well, I get and not for DARPA

      Ha with him, give me a minus (it won’t bother me, otherwise I’m ashamed of shoulder straps).

      What do you want this "+" or "-"? Insurance will not affect medical insurance, apartment rent will not change,from 3 years of paying taxes to the US budget, even if you renounce your American citizenship and leave the USA, WILL NOT RISE.
      It will not change the essence of the objective (as we supplied GKL for Iskander-M from America, so we will)
      Quote: godofwar6699
      i guess this is my flag

      Well, if only those who: "I ran, I saw a minus, shit, ran further, there is no time to shit a lot more."
      homegrown
  17. godofwar6699
    godofwar6699 April 29 2016 05: 48
    +4
    The first ship of the SpaceX project will go to Mars in 1. good
  18. Zomanus
    Zomanus April 29 2016 06: 02
    +4
    Well, hypersound in the field of nuclear weapons is interesting, but not very relevant.
    But anti-ship or anti-radar missiles do ...
  19. avg-mgn
    avg-mgn April 29 2016 07: 04
    +7
    Quote: opus
    .. I am tormented by doubts that madam "Svetlana" is not "Svetlana" at all, but what thread is "Slava", "Seryozha" from twinkOV .. wink
    I'm right?
    Doubting you are ours, in my life I have seen so many smart and very competent women-specialists who could give any head start to no less smart men that I have no doubts about "Svetlana".
  20. kostyan77708
    kostyan77708 April 29 2016 07: 17
    +6
    Quote: Denis Obukhov
    Americans understand that they again lowered hundreds of lards for missile defense in the toilet

    And what do they understand? It was their ultimate goal, to cut the dough, everything is now being done for them now! Well, we can do it!
  21. ver_
    ver_ April 29 2016 09: 03
    +6
    Quote: Zomanus
    Well, hypersound in the field of nuclear weapons is interesting, but not very relevant.
    But anti-ship or anti-radar missiles do ...


    .. So, what is the hyperboloid of engineer Garin for? - ..
  22. Snow
    Snow April 29 2016 09: 06
    +7
    Quote: Asadullah
    We have 6-7 mach.


    The question is not in the wings. The question is in controlled flight. Well, we already come back to this question from time to time. laughing It is not difficult to disperse, it is difficult to protect from destruction and that the target would be hit, at least approximately into it.)


    In general, there are three difficulties: 1) the accelerating engines work for only 10-20 seconds; 2) rockets are gigantic in size due to wild fuel consumption; 3) in the atmosphere, the rocket is heated "to white"

    The consequence of these points: flight is possible only in the stratosphere, where there is low friction against the air. In the atmosphere, flight can only be short-lived, which makes it impossible to strike at long distances.

    These problems are fundamental and require an "original solution". Like torpedoes Flurry, so that the rocket moves in a "certain environment".

    All that is now declared as a hypersonic weapon is garbage. Ballistic missiles at such speeds have been flying for 40 years.
    1. opus
      opus April 29 2016 13: 41
      +1
      Quote: Snow
      In general, there are three difficulties: 1) the accelerating engines work for only 10-20 seconds; 2) rockets are gigantic in size due to wild fuel consumption; 3) in the atmosphere, the rocket is heated "to white"

      1.then the ramjet engine starts to work, for this you need an "overclocker"
      2.because they (missiles) carry onboard both OXIDANT and fuel, which is stupid (except for SAM, there yes = angles of attack, strong with BX and diff. Not reeling) if you move in an environment that is OXIDIZER (air: 20% oxygen, and partially fuel 78% nitrogen, + СЩ + СШ2 + all garbage).
      fuel-oxygen ratio = 1 to 20 (100 air).
      these 20 (100 and do not need to be carried on board)
      + Gas treatment plant combustion in ramjet engine is very different in efficiency from combustion in CS RD
      Brighton cycle, and for PuVRD ... the higher the flow rate / pressure in ks - the greater the useful work of the thermodynamic cycle, and higher engine efficiency
      + Structurally, the ramjet has an extremely simple device.
      3) How much is white?
      The missile does not heat up, the BG or LA does.
      All this is tolerable, again thanks to the atmosphere: heat transfer, since there is an incident flow of the medium at T about -50grs (10000m), or even lower + use fuel (Concord, SR-71) to cool the ends and structure, than only increase the efficiency ( warm the fuel before the compressor station) and cool the structure + ablation + and so on
      Quote: Snow
      Like torpedoes Flurry, so that the rocket moves in a "certain environment".

      in which? in a "plasma cocoon"? Oh well.

      Quote: Snow
      All that is now declared as a hypersonic weapon is garbage. Ballistic missiles at such speeds have been flying for 40 years.

      kaneshno.
      Stop chanting this "mantra"
      Hypersonic flight means flying in an environment (atmosphere in our case) under the action of traction (with the help of an engine / propulsion device), when the drag and gravity are compensated by the traction of the device and the lifting force. Long time for considerable distances.
      All the other babbling ("Any blank inserted into the" upper layers of the atmosphere "(in common parlance - near space) will pick up these same 5M when falling down."), About warheads, BGs, reentry spacecraft -have no relation to the issue at hand.
  23. swetlana1
    swetlana1 April 29 2016 11: 05
    +6
    "Knocking him down - a nuclear explosion will still occur"


    "It is enough to destroy the body or" knock it off the patnalygi ": uncontrolled rotation or damage to the TYPE will lead to the destruction of the block"
    Quote: swetlana1


    Since the beginning of the 70s, the Americans have introduced in their cruise missiles (with a special warhead), when it is hit by missiles, the warhead (for gnawing through our anti-aircraft missile defense). More than 40 years have passed. Do you think this is not in our BB? Since that time, the term "counter blasting" has been used - after all, the speed of the electric current (or light beam) is greater than the speed of meeting the above objects))) I will answer other questions later
  24. swetlana1
    swetlana1 April 29 2016 13: 57
    +5
    Quote: opus
    Quote: Dr. Bormental
    ..You need to be generals, not ordinary

    CE burdened.

    oanos ("shape-shifter") .It's bright.

    I wrote
    Quote: opus
    ZY2. Doubts torment me that madam "Svetlana" is by no means "svetlana", and what is the thread of Sudarik "Slava", "Seryozha" from twinkOV ..
    I'm right?


    I am touched by the attention to me and am not at all offended by your doubts. But in this case, a counter question arises: "Are you (with such a cool avatar) a case NOT a woman ????"
    1. opus
      opus April 30 2016 15: 56
      +3
      Quote: swetlana1
      And you (with such a cool avatar) are NOT a woman ???? "

      There is a grandfather on the avarque, specifically George Bernard Shaw.
      How to tie a "woman" to her?
      1. swetlana1
        swetlana1 April 30 2016 17: 53
        +5
        The phrase was almost a classic fellow
        "Cornet, are you a woman?" and I took her to Wamm))) 0
        1. opus
          opus 1 May 2016 01: 13
          +1
          Quote: swetlana1
          "and I took it to Wamm))) 0

          Quote: swetlana1
          Ever since the beginning of the 70's, the Americans introduced in their cruise missiles (with special warheads) when they hit it with striking elements of SAMs - undermining warheads (for gnawing our anti-aircraft missile defense). More than 40 years have passed. Do you think this is not in our BB?

          1. When the warhead is destroyed, there will not be any kind of undermining, it's like farting in a puddle without taking off your underpants
          2. What nonsense.
          At Tomahawk
          W80 (5-200 CT), semi-armor-proof WDU-25 / B, nuclear W84, semi-armor-proof WDU-25 / B, OFBCH WDU-36 / B (BB - PBXN-107) cassette 166 BE-combined OFBCH WDU-97 / B (PBXN-36 Type 107) penetrating WDU-2 / B, 43 concrete BE BLU-28 / B BKEP per 106 kg (19 BE TAAM,) high-explosive fragmentation WDU-BUU-XNUM ОDB-WDU-58 25 / B 7 kg
          AGM-158 JASSM-ER (AGM-158В) -WDU-42 / B (J-1000) with FMU-156 / B "One programmable fuse" (it’s essentially in all modifications)
          at AGM-129 ACM - W-80-1
          AGM / RGM / UGM-84 “Harpoon” has a warhead compartment, designated WAU-3 (V) / B
          which one is equipped
          Quote: swetlana1
          undermining warheads (for gnawing our anti-aircraft missile defense).


          Special warhead?
          nonsense. When the rocket is destroyed, the BIP is demolished. If the fuse is not damaged, it is programmed to undermine - undermining will occur, BUT !!! Cogda expires flight time (by beep).
          Damaged -addyu. \ Nothing will happen, which was proved by the "loss" of the fall of special ammunition
          Not a single system of "tracking" the health of the CD is able (in time) to evaluate) whether its Soviet missile launcher attacks or not, the CD is destroyed or it is still possible to "wait", "fly"

          Quote: swetlana1
          Since that time, the term "counter blasting" has been used - after all, the speed of an electric current (or a light beam) is greater than the speed of meeting the above objects))

          This makes no sense.
          1. What does the speed of electric current or light have to do with it? What the henna?
          2. What does it have to do with the objects that they meet, according to the young man Svetlan of the Kyrgyz Republic (or ICBM, or BR) equipped with a radar that tracks attacking Soviet missiles? fool
          Locates them, separates them, identifies the threats?
          your clone
          Quote: Svetlana
          The accelerator on the backward microwave wave of Alexei Bogomolov will be able to deactivate 10M BB over the target.

          and that "smarter" gave out an idea, though it faded into the bushes after specifics immediately.

          Quote: swetlana1
          I will answer other questions later

          Not worth it
          1. swetlana1
            swetlana1 1 May 2016 06: 41
            +7
            Something about you is somehow incomprehensible and chaotic at the student level - it seems to be an adult man ...
            1.When the warhead is destroyed, there will not be any kind of undermining, it’s the same as farting into a puddle without taking off your underpants - did you come up with it yourself?
            In "Tomahawks" with a special warhead, the Americans used two emergency detonation systems (except for the main one). One duplicate at the point of detonation. The second - in case of defeat by fragmentation elements of Soviet missiles. And the guidance system has nothing to do with this - what kind of nonsense are you talking my friend (or auntie - I don't care). the Americans have guidance systems and systems associated with a special warhead conducted by different firms - how can they interact ?? Everyone has their own permission to work. I myself did not see or read - informed people were telling enough: two foils with the thinnest dielectric are attached to each other inside the warhead body. When a puff breaks through with a fragmentation element, a short circuit occurs and a command for a regular detonation immediately goes. Starting from a certain zone, the warhead is just waiting for a signal. In this case, the speed of the electric current is faster than the speed of passage of the fragmentation element to the nuclear device. Now pepper is clear - why did you talk about the speed of the electric current? It is clear that such systems are in our blocks - since so many years have passed since the mid-70s. That is why the Americans strive to build defense of their territory using missile defense elements far beyond their territory (it is not known where the striking element or kinetic elements will fall. If the targeting system, then there will be no detonation, explosions or high-altitude air. Long-range interceptors, sea-based systems far beyond their territory and complexes in European countries are used. There is another reason - for a number of interceptors, work is underway to create special combat units - but this is not particularly mentioned in the media - will the Europeans or other citizens like it when high-altitude nuclear explosions go overhead in the interests of protecting the territory of the United States. Now about the speed of light.
            I’m sorry to begin with an elementary one (citizen, not everyone understands - sorry.) Long-range missile defense interceptors (which you mentioned above, among others) are designed both to destroy ICBMs before the breeding stage and after breeding the BB. Of course, our glorious aircraft will not allow them to take off taking off ICBMs))) When diluting BBs, false targets (heavy and light-inflatable ones) are divorced in a special way and undermining of spreading platforms (if the BBs are in two tiers). Shrapnel cloud and false targets mask the real BB. This whole group is elongated in distance. But the difficulty is that ground-based high-speed computers (supercomputers) controlling a group of interceptors (also traveling with an elongated group) can select debris and light targets. And there are not many heavy ones - you see, the mass. Interceptors use several guidance channels. One of which is an optical interceptor sensor. When an interceptor hits a BB (a pair is defeated for greater probability - but one strikes earlier - that is what I mean), a special warhead is undermined. EMP disrupts target tracking by an interceptor, temporarily interrupts communication with ground control systems and burns out the optical sensors of the remaining interceptors (speed of light !!!))) and target tracking is interrupted. Rebooting interceptor systems takes time from 12 seconds and the groups disperse. Clearly explained?
  25. swetlana1
    swetlana1 April 29 2016 15: 35
    +8
    [quote = swetlana1] and do not particularly develop short-range missile defense means - in the atmospheric area near their territory. [/ quote]
    TNAAD, Patriot-3, GBI, SM-3 ... how is it "not developed"? [/ Quote]

    My message reads: "... Short-range missile defense - in the atmospheric sector" (exactly where warheads of the type mentioned in this TOPIC will maneuver).

    GBI - this is actually a strategic-class missile with a maximum range of 5000 km (yes, and hard for the atmospheric section)))))

    TNAAD - can from 200 km. But in service they are almost none (about 4 batteries). And it’s strange somehow, they have been developed since 1995 (21 years old) and have just completed the tests. A feeling: these missiles are not particularly needed. But by 2020, the Americans want to have up to 40 ships with a sea-based missile defense (SM-3) - this is what the emphasis is on - try to hit our ICBMs as close to launch zones as possible.

    Air Defense Bulletin: "It is worth noting that although there are sites for the deployment of Patriot air defense systems in the United States, these systems are used only outside the country. About half of all Patriot systems are deployed in Europe, South Korea and the Middle East." Strange too, yeah
    From the foregoing, I can conclude that my words do not contradict the actual state of affairs with the provision of missile defense (atmospheric site) in the United States.

    And purely for reference: "2010. ... On the basis of the SM-3 Block IIA, it is planned to create a long-range strike system ArcLight. The main stages of this missile will accelerate to hypersonic speeds a gliding device that can fly up to 500 ... 600 km and deliver a warhead weighing 50-100 kg. Moreover, at the stage of independent flight, the hypersonic glider will fly not along a ballistic trajectory, having received the ability to maneuver for high-precision targeting. Moreover, launchers can be mounted, for example, in standard shipping containers transported by merchant ships, trucks, can be placed in any transport terminal or just in a warehouse. " - And they are developing this system more vigorously, but this is a strike system, and not to protect against our ICBMs and ICBMs.
    So the world is strongly pulled by a doom ...
    1. opus
      opus 1 May 2016 01: 16
      +1
      [quote = swetlana1] [quote = swetlana1] and do not particularly develop short-range missile defense means - in the atmospheric area near their territory. [/ quote]
      TNAAD, Patriot-3, GBI, SM-3 ... how is it "not developed"? [/ Quote] [/ quote]

      “Dad, why, when you bite an apple, does it turn brown?”
      - The fact is, son, that there are various chemicals in the apple. One of them is iron. So, when iron enters into a chemical reaction with oxygen in the air, oxidation is obtained. As a result, a substance is formed that stains the apple brown.
      “Dad, who were you talking to right now?”

      Clone of Svetlana under No. 1 conducts steady conversations with himself
      1. swetlana1
        swetlana1 1 May 2016 06: 58
        +7
        The old and the small, apparently, are the same ... Well, why did you bring this story? Grandfather wants to laugh? Anything intelligible without insult in my answer can be answered ??? Or, apart from insults and speculation, do you give anything = life?
        I repeat for those who are in the tank their message:
        "The quote you torn out of my message reads:" ... Short-range missile defense - in the atmospheric sector "(exactly where warheads of the type mentioned in the title of this TOPIC will maneuver).

        GBI is a strategic class based on ICBMs with a maximum range of 5000 km (it is difficult to maneuver in the atmospheric section)

        TNAAD - can work at atmospheric site and above. But in service they are almost none (about 4 batteries) !!!!! There are agreements on their deliveries to other countries. The issue of a contract with the US Armed Forces for eight complexes is currently under consideration. It is clear that they will cover the bases outside the United States.
        The United States is focusing on the marine component of missile defense - by 2020, will have up to 40 ships with a sea-based missile defense (SM-3). But these are also long-range interceptors. Here are the production of these missiles engaged in the production of US missiles.

        Air Defense Bulletin: "It is worth noting that although there are sites for the deployment of Patriot air defense systems in the United States, these systems are used only outside the country. About half of all Patriot systems are deployed in Europe, South Korea and the Middle East."
        From the foregoing, I conclude that the above quote does not contradict the area of ​​use of maneuvering units in the atmospheric section above the United States.

        You can write something intelligible on this topic to prove that I am NOT RIGHT?
  26. avg-mgn
    avg-mgn April 29 2016 16: 42
    +6
    SVETLANA !!! I do not cease to admire you. NATTO should be written and poop voluntarily. Honestly, Our girls are still proud of our pence. Oh, where are my 17 ..... Thank you, Svetlana, well done.
    1. opus
      opus 1 May 2016 00: 57
      +1
      Quote: avg-mgn
      We are still proud of our pence for our girls.

      Make no mistake about the "girls" ...
  27. godofwar6699
    godofwar6699 April 30 2016 08: 43
    +6
    Quote: opus
    Quote: godofwar6699
    When I talk about these DARPA projects on the website, they will kick me out and I get a lot -

    Well, I get and not for DARPA

    Ha with him, give me a minus (it won’t bother me, otherwise I’m ashamed of shoulder straps).

    What do you want this "+" or "-"? Insurance will not affect medical insurance, apartment rent will not change,from 3 years of paying taxes to the US budget, even if you renounce your American citizenship and leave the USA, WILL NOT RISE.
    It will not change the essence of the objective (as we supplied GKL for Iskander-M from America, so we will)
    Quote: godofwar6699
    i guess this is my flag

    Well, if only those who: "I ran, I saw a minus, shit, ran further, there is no time to shit a lot more."
    homegrown

    minus and plus system for children. hi
    1. opus
      opus 1 May 2016 16: 04
      +1
      Quote: godofwar6699
      minus and plus system for children.

      and for "pvsevdozhenchin" like swetlana1 / svetlana. These two twinks in female guise have been trying for 4 days, "running over me" and minus, minus, minus.
      I'm only glad wink

      As the ancient Roman philosopher and writer Macrobius tells us, in his time a cult of masculine Aphrodite was developed in Cyprus: she wore a beard and possessed male genitalia, but wore a female robe. And fans of her cult practiced cross-dressing: women wore men's clothing, and men, respectively, female. This version of the goddess was sometimes called Aphroditos to indicate her / his / gender uncertainty. In several surviving copies of the sculptural image of the goddess of love, she lifts her dresses, showing off her male genitalia (as in the picture below), making a gesture that was traditionally endowed with the magical power of protection from evil.

      (I will not insert a picture, otherwise it will be banned)