Military Review

Shards of Empire

91
Shards of Empire



Sometimes two systems that are not fundamentally similar begin to develop according to the same laws, putting scientists at a complete dead end. Carefully examining the development of the situation in Belarus and Ukraine, suddenly you discover fundamentally common points. Somehow: fundamental inability to develop in accordance with the development of the surrounding world (Europe and Russia). Both in Minsk and Kiev, time seemed to slow down its run.

Agree: a very different economy, politics, state system. And yet there are characteristic similarities. Both Belarus and Ukraine tightly “froze into the 90”, and it is almost impossible to tear them out of there without destroying them. Just due to different subjective and objective reasons for their development went on very different trajectories. But it went very close to the starting point.

With Belarus it is clear: the KGB, the state control of the economy in manual mode and the irremovable leader. It is such a characteristic and stable system, which fundamentally does not want and can not develop. We need to understand one thing: Belarusians are firmly stuck in time like a fly in amber and neither there nor here. This is from our Russian point of view. In fact, there is a kind of such development, but very, very slowly. And the entourage (and Poland, and Russia) go ahead. They change very quickly in the economy, in culture and in politics. Russia managed to make a wild privatization, after which it restored step by step at least partial control over the economy and “reset” the state.

We somehow do not fully realize this, but today we have a completely different state and economy in relation not only to 80, but also to 90. Everything is torn down by the "torrential stream." And Russia again begins to make the "White Swan". All these years, Belarus is anxiously standing near the coast, ankle-deep in cold water, and wondering: “To swim or not to swim?” Discussions are held in society, different opinions collide. But in reality, the situation froze at the start of 90's. That is, all those years ... They thought. And continue to think. And the wild / gangster capitalism of Russia does not appeal to them at all.

Oddly enough, but the same applies to Ukraine. They also froze in the 90's. Just another option. They were just stuck at the level of “oligarchic capitalism” and “seven-bankers”. After the collapse of the USSR, only a few steps were taken forward (by inertia) and political / economic development stopped. At first glance, the active "movement" is explained very simply - it is a kind of "Brownian movement." Development as such did not occur. The same remnants of social benefits, the same oligarchs who have “grabbed” the economy. The same, bought by them, Rada. Time there, in fact, stopped.

The funny thing is: for the last ten years, Russia has been actively trying to “wake up” Belarus, “push” it, take it out of hibernation. Useless. Absolutely useless. All these efforts in Minsk caused only growing irritation: “We ourselves know how we can manage our state. " To achieve failed virtually nothing. All projects were either canceled or frozen. And now in Belarus “pro-Western” moods are rapidly growing. Why in quotes? Belarusians simply naively believe that it is interesting to someone in Europe to finance them “for nothing”. If someone does not know: Russia has returned the Chechen Republic to the “legal field,” although it cost Nemer.

Iraq also has one of the world's largest reserves of cheap oil (never shale), potentially the richest country, but the Westerners left it to die on the sidelines. The country has essentially broken up. Who on this planet is interested in poor countries? So, interest in Ukraine (due to its poverty) disappeared much faster than in oil-bearing Iraq. For a year and a half, the US and the EU invested some money there and tried to reform Ukraine. The money was cleaned up, the reforms did not begin de facto. Theoretically, the West had complete control over Ukraine and complete loyalty of the “Euro-oriented” population and the ability to eliminate unwanted ones. Physically eliminate if someone does not understand.

Nevertheless, the attempt to somehow “reform” Ukraine ended with an “epic Fail”. So the problem is more serious here than individual oligarchs and corrupt officials. This is not a matter of individuals, but of the system itself, a kind of “time bubble / lacuna” in which the country of Ukraine is located. Brilliant Western politicians come, bring money, give advice. Further: the money is being stolen, the country is striving "to zero", no one listens to any recommendations and is not going to carry out, any criticism causes offense. The "people" is sitting, smiling cheekily and waiting for a new portion of money. Do not you think that this is very similar to our relationship with Belarus? Its futility?

Ukraine, like Belarus, live their inner life and nothing is going to change. Despite the serious pressure of Biden and Steinmeier about Minsk-2, Ukraine did nothing. Nothing at all, but there is a constant desire to "level the Donbass to the ground." This is interesting for Ukrainian politicians. Here is just a complete consensus. For a year and a half, Ukrainian politicians came to Europe, uttered ritual phrases, asked for money and political support. And it worked. Too Europeans do not like Russian. The only thing that can unite them (Europeans) is the confrontation with Russia.

At this, the Ukrainians and played. But after a year and a half (sometime in the fall of 2015), it began to reach Europeans: they were fooled. Ukraine was not going to carry out any recommendations and was not going to reform something there. In 2014-15, we had the good fortune to observe “Ukrainians” in its pure, undisturbed “moskalskimi influences” original state. This is the theft of everything that is not pinned up, a war with dissidents, open banditry and the disintegration of all state structures. Yes, this is “Ukrainianship” as it is. A kind of "hello from the past", a distant past.

Attempts by Moscow to negotiate something with this very Ukraine before the 2014 year were useless: the Ukrainian “elitarians” did not care about the future of their own country. They did not grow to such a level of political consciousness, maybe in a hundred years ... Attempts by Europeans and Americans to bring at least some semblance of order there, after the second Maidan, also ended very badly. Politicians simply assume that the Ukrainians, they are here, next to us. And here we have this “space-time” paradox: Ukraine lives its own, special time.

Already two years of civil war, the country has been drained of blood and forever in debt, but only now and only to the Ukrainian oligarchs Begins little by little reach that something is wrong. We live with Ukraine at different times, although we have the same dates on the calendars. And our consciousness is already very different. About how three years negotiations with Minsk on the merger of KamAZ and MAZ ended in nothing. Different sense of time. From the point of view of the Belarusians, it is possible to negotiate for another ten years. In the Integral enterprise, they have been going in different forms for more than ten years, estimate. From the point of view of the Russians, the Belarusian economy causes more and more sincere amazement and misunderstanding.

It is this very different passage of time that makes the cooperation between Russia and Belarus more difficult. Belarusian leaders still live in the past millennium and are just trying on the third. The same applies to Ukraine: all the growing pressure of European politicians on the implementation of the Minsk-2 agreements did not lead to anything good. Ukraine, despite the invasion of “Varyags” into the power structures, they (successfully) successfully ignore them. There is a different life, a different time and different views. And the laws of Newton there act quite differently ... This is not a game for the public from the European structures, from Ukraine real and hard require to do something, but she does nothing.

Simply, people in Kiev are sitting and waiting for money and a visa-free regime with Europe, “for beautiful eyes.” And the agreement? What kind of agreement? Brussels can achieve nothing from Kiev, nothing at all, except general declarations about “close friendship and opposition to Russia”. At the same time, the Ukrainians, in spite of everything, are struggling to prepare for the “sweep” of the Donbass. The trend in society is. If you think that this is vile NATO members are preparing another brawl from Donetsk, this is not quite so. Europe has authorized the establishment of "order through weapons”In the Donbas, but Europe is already tired of this war, as well as of Ukraine as a whole.

But the process is going on its own, especially since Kiev does not have much control over the country. Paris and Berlin, “getting in the teeth” under Debaltseve, became disillusioned with the Ukrainian warriors and made a choice in favor of a political settlement. And Ukraine is not. And this very difference in positions is becoming more and more difficult to “gloss over”. Poroshenko and Yatsenyuk were puppets, but the West did not gain control over Ukraine in full (and even in a reasonable volume). Paradox. Having failed to achieve anything in Kiev (despite the lack of IMF tranches since the fall of 2015), European politicians even tried to put pressure on Moscow. It also did not work. Dead end.

Similarly, Russia tried to put pressure on Belarus in terms of economic reform and integration, as well as foreign policy. The result is close to zero, despite the terrible economic and political crisis that broke out in 2011, after the reduction of subsidies. The system lives its own life. The amount of resources in it is sharply reduced, but the policy does not change in any way. Paradoxically: the Ukrainian many-headed oligarchic hydra and dad behave completely similarly, realizing the principle: “They will beat, we will cry”. Alexander Lukashenko, I must give him his due, withstood the strongest pressure from Moscow, but he did not give up one iota. The logic is: "We must endure, stand, endure, then we quit." The logic is not entirely correct: they simply stopped financing it according to the results.

The Ukrainian "politbomond" operates in exactly the same way. Oh, and Biden came, and sang sweet songs about federalism. But the Ukrainian deputies remained deaf to his calls. The West "controlled" Ukraine when it came to the Donbas force cleansing. When the West abandoned this idea - it turned out that he did not control a damn thing. Suddenly for everyone it turned out. I take the liberty to suggest: Kiev will not do anything from Minsk-2. Fundamentally. Don't even wait. The West has finally collided with the very "cunning Ukrainians" whom they so enthusiastically admired. They will sign and promise, but they will do nothing. Under any pressure. The system is from another era.

No, if you spend ten years on it and give ten dollars to each Ukrainian deputy, then it is possible. There is a reason to bargain. As it turned out now in Europe too: state interests and state obligations for Ukrainians are fiction. The image of the state is also a fiction (like the state itself). There are hundreds of “cunning Ukrainians”, for whom the implementation of Minsk-2 is, firstly, good, and secondly, a reason to make good money. Well, rinse the brains of "European strategies." And for nothing, no one will do anything. Under any pressure. Here is such an "unexpected" for the EU. According to them, it is enough “on the sidelines” to “hard” talk with the president and a couple more people - and everything will be decided in the best traditions of democracy. In Poland, yes, perhaps, but not in Ukraine. Here, each deputy will have to catch, scare and bribe almost individually. The country is such an era.

By the way, both “Euro-holders” - both Ukraine and Belarus - entered the economic peak almost simultaneously (with full dissimilarity of economic models). Almost at the same time there they refused (they had to give up) the “Soviet prices” in the housing and utilities sector. And the funny thing is, almost simultaneously, both there and there, there was regret about the lost (stolen) nuclear weapons. Very bitterly and emotionally on this topic were expressed both in Minsk and in Kiev. Also almost at the same time. I now wonder how to treat economic diseases with nuclear weapons? In principle, Estonia and Kyrgyzstan, too, could regret this nuclear weapon bitterly. In general, of course, it was necessary after the collapse of the USSR in each union republic to leave a little nuclear weapons. So, for a change. A souvenir in memory of the years lived together.

Seriously, none of the former republics The USSR did not have the slightest chance to save a couple of "nuclear bombs." Absolutely impossible option. Here and Moscow, and Washington, and London, and Paris were one. Absolutely not. Because. Even then, there were certain doubts about the bright future of these newer republics. By the way, these doubts were quite reasonable. And the thing is that, by inertia, both the residents of Ukraine and the inhabitants of Belarus felt that: “we are all children of a great power ...”. However, it was completely wrong. And when the “moment of crisis truth” came, and it came both for Kiev and for Minsk almost simultaneously, it turned out that the times of “great power” had hopelessly passed for them. Both Kiev and Minsk almost simultaneously (Minsk a little later) were firmly and clearly indicated their role and their place in modern politics. The real role and the real place.

And there, and there came a shock. They did not wait for this, they did not prepare for this (here you are not from the USSR!). And it was then that they remembered the imperial nuclear weapons and even started talking about the development of rocket weapons. Compare: how different are systems, how different are politicians, how different is ideology and economy. And the result is one - plinth. And achieved almost simultaneously. Unwittingly you will believe in the omnipotence of the laws of celestial mechanics ... So, many Eastern Europeans ask: "And why at all do you need your outdated intolerant empire today with its missile carriers and killer satellites? ”I answer:“ And then, so that any leisure bankster could not bend us. ” Soros and Gaddafi will confirm.

Still, the difference is big: live in the empire itself and “beyond the Lemes”.

Author:
Photos used:
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  1. drilled
    drilled April 29 2016 15: 10
    +11
    Semibankirshchina ... What a biting and historically comparable epithet!
    However, as regards Belarus (sorry, I'm accustomed to) I disagree. The people may decide what is better, but I do not notice that Belarusians strongly consider us "developed" and dream of hosting our 90s. The industry is working, the fields are sown. Well, and free fuel from the RF - why not live?
    1. Svetoch
      Svetoch April 29 2016 15: 25
      +15
      I can confirm. Some of the people in the Republic of Belarus, not all of course, generally consider Russia backward and further down the list. To their attacks that nothing has been built in Russia, I say that it has been built and give examples to which they simply answer me that I am not reading there or looking at it. And this is what people who read the "charter 97" trash can tell me. This is enough. There are people who are for Russia and so on. There are many cars with St. George ribbons and Russian flags in the cabins. There is a large contingent who are behind the mountain, who
      Quote: Burieway
      The industry is working, the fields are sown. Well, and free fuel from the Russian Federation, why not live?
      . That's something like this, a little messy, sorry.
      1. Aleksandr1959
        Aleksandr1959 April 29 2016 15: 45
        +7
        I can confirm. Some people in the Republic of Belarus, not all of course, generally consider Russia to be backward and then on the list. To their attacks that nothing was built in Russia, I say that it was built and I give examples to which they simply answer that I read and not look there

        They consider it to be backward, Russians consider receiving money for free. Not everyone thinks so, those who have worked in Russia understand that they don’t pay money for just that.
        In Belarus, a few years ago, the market for cheap mortgages collapsed, when a lot of people received money for a symbolic percentage, especially considering inflation, they built, and many more than once apartments sold them or rented it ... This loaded the construction industry of Belarus. Where did the money come from ... Guess three times. But like any freebie ... this one has ended. On the Russian construction market, Belarusians got a small piece of the market, since no one was going to give a big one to them.
        Many of the Belarusians believe that Russia should give them .... life-giving loans.
        Many Belarusians understand what this course of Lukashenko is leading to. The economy of Belarus is now experiencing much more serious difficulties than the Russian economy. And the Russian leadership has become more pragmatic in allocating money to Belarus. It’s also somewhat messy, but somehow.
    2. Aleksey_K
      Aleksey_K April 29 2016 16: 29
      +1
      Quote: Burieway
      Semibankirshchina ... What a biting and historically comparable epithet!

      It is not clear what "Semibankirshchina" wanted to say with this term and with what it is historically comparable. Explain to those who are not knowledgeable, because the author invented a new term that had not been used before, but did not explain what it was.
      1. Olezhek
        April 29 2016 17: 09
        +9
        Seven Bankers (seven bankers; the word is formed by analogy with the historical term Seven Boyars [1]) is the name of a group of seven popular in the Russian 1996 media and in several years following the name of a group of seven (different sources called different surnames, therefore, such a wiki. .
      2. Weyland
        Weyland April 29 2016 20: 09
        +1
        Quote: Алексей_К
        the author coined a new term that was not previously used


        You are not from Uryupinsk, an hour? This term is 20 years old! And about Semboyarshchina, in fact, they should have taught the class in the 8th grade at school, incl. proverb: "Better the Terrible Tsar than the Seven Boyars!"
        1. Aleksey_K
          Aleksey_K April 29 2016 22: 01
          +3
          Quote: Weyland
          You are not from Uryupinsk, in an hour? This term is 20 years old! And about the Semboyarshchina, in fact, they should have taught the class in the 8th grade at school, incl. proverb: "Better the Terrible Tsar than the Seven Boyars!"

          Yes, even from Uryupinsk - this is not a reason for insults or disrespectful attitude. I knew about Semiboyarschina from school, but I did not know the term Semibankirshchina. Therefore, he asked without any insult to other readers.
          You probably don't know much either. Here answer me - what is the calculus of variations? Or tell us about methods for integrating partial differential equations?
          Or in simpler terms - what is Student's t-test or Fisher's test? If you don’t know any of this, then you are also destined to live in Uryupinsk.
          And the seven-boyars is the direct control of Russia by boyars without a tsar, and the seven-bank is the shadow management of banks in Russia in the presence of a "tsar," that is, President Yeltsin, and the Duma was present at the same time. What is the analogy here, except for the similarity of pronunciation?
      3. The comment was deleted.
    3. Lex.
      Lex. April 29 2016 18: 32
      +1
      and free and gratuitous fuel from the Russian Federation - why not live? fuel from the Russian Federation - why not live?
      Why did you decide to donate?
      It’s cheaper, but it’s not a gratuitous all this heritage of the USSR. These factories are giants which little Belarus doesn’t need. Well, what kind of progress do you need? in Ukraine
      1. andj61
        andj61 April 29 2016 18: 49
        +5
        Quote: Lex.
        The BAZ that you wanted to replace with your bankruptcy bankrupt people do not receive 3 months of salary.

        And who sang this to your ears? Or just clearly visible, especially from Israel? But I’m living nearby - just a couple of kilometers from the BAZ - and nothing like this is noticeable. And a bunch of neighbors at the car factory are working, even the neighborhood next to it is called - Car Factory. On the contrary - Almaz-Antey bought out, people paid their debts (although there was no three-month delay, a month - yes, it was) there is a complete re-equipment of workshops, constantly the tractors are taxiing out of the plant - either they are running-in, or something else. Of course, the volumes that were under the Union were still far away, but not at all what it was even a year ago. Yes, bulldozers, spare parts for ZiLs, as it was during the USSR, are not manufactured right now, but tractors are just manufactured, and in a decent amount.
        By the way, the car factory was bankrupt repeatedly, and for only one reason: the state did not pay for the delivered tractors on time, loans were taken to cover costs - and the products became more expensive. And the MZKT, with the support of the state, could offer a lower price, i.e. dumped - at least for the cost of the loan. Yes, with an increase in output, costs are reduced.
    4. iouris
      iouris April 30 2016 01: 54
      0
      Necha blame the mirror.
      The Republic of Belarus retained the system, the armed forces, Soviet defense technology and agriculture. If anything, you can adopt. And fuel is nonsense: prices are falling. Hey live Belarus!
  2. Pirogov
    Pirogov April 29 2016 15: 12
    +2
    What is surprising here, and there and there a lot of s.uk got out, but this can’t do any good for the countries. Belarusians have one plus that Lukashenko holds them in their hands.
  3. Denis Obukhov
    Denis Obukhov April 29 2016 15: 14
    +7
    Ukraine - primarily an agricultural country with the appropriate mentality - doesn’t give a damn what is next to the village. In the village they grow for sale, stealing everything that can be stolen or bought for moonshine. Workers in enterprises are mostly people above middle age and are afraid of losing what they have.
    The upbringing of the independent generation took place under nationalist slogans and a holy belief in "European values ​​are the key to success", "innovative technologies will save everyone," "trade is above all."
    Fuck the economy - "the west will help us", they will take all the land from them, the remnants of industry will finish off ...
    The most amazing thing is that they are happy about it. And the joy, mind you, is universal! All right, all these stupid people would be from the current 14-17 year old galloping ordinary frostbitten and single-celled idiots who did not study in schools as expected, so those who lived and worked normally with them! That is, the generation born in the 70s and 80s under the USSR ... This is a verdict, they are confident that homosexuals from the EU and the United States will feed them if they spit in the Russian Federation. Remained in the country are urks and drunks with nakromanami (presently patriots) mixed with reckless gopatura of 15-20 years old who are commanded by Sukashvili and the like Parubii, Giblets and Trupchinovs! Not a single adequate "politician"! All the litter of thana - and the normal 11-12 million just scattered around the world.
    1. The comment was deleted.
    2. Weyland
      Weyland April 29 2016 20: 41
      +1
      Quote: Denis Obukhov
      Ukraine - primarily an agricultural country with the appropriate mentality - doesn’t give a damn what is next to the village. In the village they grow for sale, stealing everything that can be stolen or bought for moonshine


      As one wrote Kiev about the situation almost a hundred years ago:

      peasant thoughts that no pansky bastard reform is needed, but that eternal, desired peasant reform is needed:
      - All the land to the peasants.
      - To each of 100 acres.
      - That there were no landowners and spirit.
      - And so that for every 100 acres of faithful stamped paper with a seal - in the possession of eternal, hereditary, from grandfather to father, from father to son, to grandson and so on.
       So that no punks from the City come to demand bread. Peasant bread, we will not give it to anyone, that we ourselves will not eat it, we will bury it in the ground.
      - To bring kerosene from the City.

      - Well, the adored hetman could not make such a reform. And no damn it will not produce.
    3. Orionvit
      Orionvit April 29 2016 21: 04
      +3
      The axis of water, would be mukytsya, would have been banged by varenyks, so the cheese is dumb. So, from the great heritage of the Union, nothing remained. In the 90s, when they plundered the country, everyone lived well. And money was earned easily, one might say from scratch. Now everything has become. All that can already be stolen, the resources of the thieves' economy are gone. Feeling of a certain timelessness. More Maidan. Generally .
      1. R-22
        R-22 April 29 2016 22: 00
        +1
        There is still a resource, it’s just all divided and there’s no one’s draw, everything has been ripped off by a thief i.e. oligarchs
  4. Vladimirets
    Vladimirets April 29 2016 15: 15
    +9
    Whatever you say, a leader determines a lot. In Ukraine, not one has appeared who would do something. In Belarus, the dad, as it is correctly written, got stuck in the 90s, he was good for preserving the country, the economy and counteracting the razderban, but his time was gone. IMHO, for Belarus, the Chinese model would now fit like no other: a high-quality and not very expensive labor force, state administration. I do not know what would have happened if Putin had not appeared in due time. Whether he likes it or not, his influence on Russia is extremely great. He is a strong leader, with strong deeds. Perhaps his time is drawing to a close, but I, personally, have not yet seen anyone even approximately suitable in this situation. request
    1. MrK
      MrK April 29 2016 15: 39
      -1
      Quote: Vladimirets
      I do not know what would have happened if Putin had not appeared in due time. Whether he likes it or not, his influence on Russia is extremely great. He is a strong leader, with strong deeds. Perhaps his time is drawing to a close, but I, personally, have not yet seen anyone even approximately suitable in this situation.


      True economy in full ... ne. And the poor are more than 22 million. But all the same, Putin did well.
      1. Denis Obukhov
        Denis Obukhov April 29 2016 15: 53
        +6
        Quote: mrark
        Quote: Vladimirets
        I do not know what would have happened if Putin had not appeared in due time. Whether he likes it or not, his influence on Russia is extremely great. He is a strong leader, with strong deeds. Perhaps his time is drawing to a close, but I, personally, have not yet seen anyone even approximately suitable in this situation.


        True economy in full ... ne. And the poor are more than 22 million. But all the same, Putin did well.


        Maybe 22% "beggars"? It seems to me that the poor in Russia are about 60%
      2. Denis Obukhov
        Denis Obukhov April 29 2016 16: 01
        0
        Quote: mrark
        Quote: Vladimirets
        I do not know what would have happened if Putin had not appeared in due time. Whether he likes it or not, his influence on Russia is extremely great. He is a strong leader, with strong deeds. Perhaps his time is drawing to a close, but I, personally, have not yet seen anyone even approximately suitable in this situation.


        True economy in full ... ne. And the poor are more than 22 million. But all the same, Putin did well.



        Every year, Putin, on a piece of paper from the screens of Channel One, reads to us how much% our real incomes have grown. And then, suddenly, the poor! Where from ?! Every year we are REALLY rich! Or is Putin lying?
      3. Vladimirets
        Vladimirets April 29 2016 16: 28
        +2
        Quote: mrark
        True economy in full ... ne.

        Quote B. Obama at the 8th party congress?
        Quote: mrark
        But Putin is still well done.

        We could not have a country, at least in terms of sovereignty. Somewhere well done, somewhere not at all, but the fact that he forces others to reckon with Russia is a fact.
        Quote: tim00
        almost no public property.

        I will tell you a terrible secret, there has never been a PEOPLE property. It was state, it was private and is, but it wasn’t national. yes
    2. 34 region
      34 region April 29 2016 17: 00
      +2
      Vladimir! 15.15. It is amazing how everyone sees the terrible economy of Berarussia and does not see what is happening in the world. Guys! And in the global economy, the economic rise? All countries of the world are developing and only the Old Man is slowing down !? Russia sells dad energy for free !? Are the prices there the same as 20 years ago? The dad’s economy, I think, was designed for development, and not for stagnation. What is the fault of the father? Is there a recession in the world? Did that dad provoke him? Old Man spits on Russia !? When you sell almost half of the products to Russia, is it a spit? A small country cannot survive in a pack of sharks. Be at least seven spans in the forehead of the leader. And everyone has enough problems. You might think everything is wonderful with us!
      1. Olezhek
        April 29 2016 17: 14
        +2
        I think the economy has been designed for development, not stagnation.


        And how has it evolved over the last 20 years?
        1. 34 region
          34 region April 29 2016 17: 30
          +2
          Olezhek! 17.14. As far as I know, according to plan. But the plan and market chaos were incompatible.
  5. The comment was deleted.
  6. Ivan Slavyanin
    Ivan Slavyanin April 29 2016 15: 36
    +6
    Well, yes, now the EU is trying to isolate itself from people from the Wild Field. But Russia warned Europe that it’s not even the Georgians for you!
  7. WAN
    WAN April 29 2016 15: 51
    0
    I work with Belarusians, leading their direction. They lie as they breathe, give them the goods and hurry, don't give a damn about contracts, but when you ask: Where is the money? We shipped the goods to you with a deferred payment, they are very surprised, like, well, nifiga yourself, you are already rich, you have to share like a brother, we'll pay someday! In fairness, I must say that not all are like that, but the overwhelming majority. Out of 10, one customer works under a contract, and not according to the "concepts of the 90s".
    1. Bramb
      Bramb April 29 2016 16: 23
      +3
      Well, it’s you who bent a little.
      And about "they lie like they breathe" I do not agree. Normal people. There are some peculiarities - yes. You just do not fully understand their system and principles of work. Drink a beer, or better vodka with a middle-class boss in the evening. He will clarify a lot for you.
      And at once everything will become clear: both their supposed "surprise" and a hint of wealth should have understood itself long ago, tea is not small.))
      1. WAN
        WAN April 29 2016 16: 40
        +2
        I didn’t bend at all. I have been working with them for many years, and everything has been clear to me with them for a long time. And drank vodka. The cunning ... e they. I repeat not all, but most. Until you take a tough stance on obligations, they don’t want to understand anything! This is just a fact, personal experience!
        1. Verdun
          Verdun April 29 2016 17: 28
          +1
          Until you take a tough stance on obligations, they don’t want to understand anything
          It is we in Russia who are used to working under bath and barbecue contracts. Do you think German or American business will work with you honestly? One that sells donuts is possible. But with computers this trick will not work. In the absence of their own resources, Belarusians are used to being zealous. Every donut counts!
          1. WAN
            WAN April 29 2016 17: 38
            0
            Quote: Verdun
            It is we in Russia who are used to working under bath and barbecue contracts.


            Nonsense is generally complete! It is there (in Belarus) that they are so used to working. We have not been in the 90s for a long time, the agreement is serious, taking into account penalties as well. But Belarusians sign the agreement, and then they begin to bustle with all their might.
            1. Verdun
              Verdun April 29 2016 18: 01
              +1
              But Belarusians sign the agreement, and then they begin to bustle with all their might.
              If your agreement provides an opportunity for a commercial partner to "juggle", you should blame your own lawyers.
              1. WAN
                WAN April 29 2016 19: 26
                0
                The agreement was drawn up competently, the "brothers" do not want to comply with the terms. We treat.
        2. Borus017
          Borus017 April 29 2016 18: 05
          +4
          Did you work with the Ma-Askvichs? An unforgettable experience is guaranteed! From personal experience. What the fuck Belarusians ... Yes, in comparison with the main throne, they are accurate as a Swiss chronometer and reliable as a gun.
    2. 34 region
      34 region April 29 2016 17: 11
      +1
      Wang! 15.51. Weird! We mean have changed, but they should not have! And it is fraternally divided when the eldest is everything, the average is a little, and the younger is only a cat in boots. He didn’t evenly ask. And you know it was a pity to give the cat away! Well, then who is the miser? No.
      1. WAN
        WAN April 29 2016 17: 48
        +1
        I explain to you - the AGREEMENT is concluded. It clearly spells out who, whom and what should. Not in a bathhouse, cottage or forest, but a legally competently executed contract, signed by seals and seals. On our part, the terms of the contract are respected, with the Belarusian no.
        I spend my money on raw materials and production, give products to the customer. According to the CONTRACT, which the customer signed, he must pay after a certain time. He does not pay. All! The question is, from what ..... should I give the goods to the customer ??? And if our people often just freeze, stop answering the phone and mail, then the Belarusians want more and more for free! That's all friendship. Give thousands of 50-100 Euros to Belarusians (and we are talking about such amounts) or you press? No offense wink
        1. Verdun
          Verdun April 29 2016 18: 14
          +1
          I explain to you - the AGREEMENT is concluded. It clearly spells out who, whom and what should
          Then what prevents you from going to arbitration or court?
          1. WAN
            WAN April 29 2016 19: 24
            0
            Nothing hinders, it is long and initially costly. I knock out debts in all legal ways. This is not about that, but about the conscientiousness of partners from the "fraternal" republic.
  8. Yuriy Nikolayevich
    Yuriy Nikolayevich April 29 2016 15: 58
    +3
    The court sentenced the general director of TMK, who built the Vostochny spaceport
    MOSCOW, April 29 - RIA News. The court sentenced Igor Nesterenko, the general director of the Pacific Bridge Construction Company, who was building the Vostochny spaceport, to three years in prison in a fraud case, the Investigative Committee of Russia reported.
    The court found that from September 8, 2014 to April 19, 2015, the chairman of the board of directors of TMK CJSC Sergey Yudin organized a fraudulent scheme that allowed Nesterenko to steal almost 104,5 million rubles from the company's funds. Yudin and Nesterenko withdrew funds through one-day firms, and then disposed of the money at their discretion, the report said.
    The court sentenced Nesterenko to three years and three months of imprisonment with serving in a penal colony of general regime.
    The criminal case against Yudin, who is accused of organizing fraud, has not yet been essentially examined.
    During the investigation, Nesterenko’s property was arrested for almost 60 million rubles, and for Yudin, almost 100 million rubles.
    Earlier, Russian President Vladimir Putin, who came to Vostochny to observe the first launch of the launch vehicle, noted that six criminal cases had been opened in connection with violations during the construction of the launch site. The head of state promised that the perpetrators "will replace a warm home bed with cold bunks."
    Vostochny Cosmodrome has been under construction near the city of Tsiolkovsky (formerly the Uglegorsk village) in the Amur Region since 2012. The first launch of the launch vehicle was expected in 2015, the construction work was scheduled to be completed before November 30 of last year. On October 14, 2015, Vladimir Putin familiarized himself with the progress of work, noted that it was behind schedule and allowed to postpone the first launch from the cosmodrome from December 2015 to 2016. The first unmanned launch from Vostochny took place on April 28.
    https://news.mail.ru/incident/25630495/?frommail=1
    1. 34 region
      34 region April 29 2016 17: 15
      +4
      Yu N! 15.58. He stole 104, 60 were arrested, and how many were returned? Will the remaining 44 be earned in three years? yes Here are the earnings in the colonies! fellow
    2. Aleksandr1959
      Aleksandr1959 April 29 2016 17: 28
      +3
      As one of the Internet resources wrote about this news: "Previously, they planted and sent to build a cosmodrome ... and now they are building ... and then they planted."
      In general, for theft at strategic facilities, some terms are not serious.
      1. Denis Obukhov
        Denis Obukhov April 29 2016 19: 38
        +1
        Quote: Aleksandr1959
        As one of the Internet resources wrote about this news: "Previously, they planted and sent to build a cosmodrome ... and now they are building ... and then they planted."
        In general, for theft at strategic facilities, some terms are not serious.


        Confessional testimony - well, as without this in Gosuzhas ...
  9. nrex
    nrex April 29 2016 16: 02
    +2
    I would like to bring a case from life to this.
    One friend went in the 90s to relax in Turkey.
    Somewhere they caught on tongues with a hohlushka from Ukraine.
    Khokhlushka: - here you Rosiyans will disappear without our bread and lard, you are lazy and so on ...
    Sedodka: - Yes, you would not go to ... the granary ё ...!
    So, I also want to say the same to Byalorus.
    And you wouldn’t go to ... Bulbashnitsa yo ...!
    These former republics do not remember how in the late 80s there was nothing other than seaweed and birch sap on the shelves of the non-black soil. At the same time, our younger brothers regiments were bursting with pickles.
    1. Sally
      Sally April 29 2016 23: 03
      0
      Do you know me for some reason it seems that my country will say so
      Neighbor: - Yes, you would not go to ... the granary ё ...!
      with further such course of events ...
      It seems that there is no such union as with Ukraine, but the turnover has fallen on the forums, hell is going on (and not the current on them): from you, nobody, we give you "everything", to Crimea ("Belarus") and that's it .. ...
      Then the author of the rights in Belarus will develop, it will survive its radical "era of change" (90s) And it will be, at best, like Poland after leaving the eastern bloc (including economically, who is aware of the topic) or it will not become at all and Will RP, VP or even even together with Ukraine under the protectorate (s) - I moved away from the topic
      Why is it so and not with Russia? (well, okay, maybe in half) Because the elite will decide so (from there they "pay" more) and the people will support seeing what is happening (even if they do not imagine the consequences) ...

      Ps In the meantime, we can continue our disputes looking for specks in the eyes, well, and other little things) ...
      "but not neighborhood picnics" (
    2. Sally
      Sally April 29 2016 23: 14
      +1
      Quote: nrex
      At the same time, our younger brothers regiments were bursting with pickles.

      and yes about the "pickles" for some reason everyone went to Moscow and even for the products of their own enterprises ... why would it be?)
  10. Riv
    Riv April 29 2016 16: 24
    +8
    If everything was as simple as the author writes here ... A brief educational program:

    A miner or cotton grower will never earn more than a high-level turner. Turner works with expensive materials, he gained experience for a long time. Look for another one. And after a minimal briefing, anyone can be sent to the mine. All according to Marx, in short. But socialism requires approximately the same standard of living both in the rural outback and in the industrial center. This means that people have to pay more for coal and cotton, and less for high-tech products. And so it was. Turner was paid less, a bigger miner. Socialism, Karl!

    And then the dog rummaged. Under Brezhnev socialism, there is no need to work better and give more. What for? Did you give the norm? Issued, even exceeded the plan at a percent. And if you haven’t betrayed, then nothing special threatens you. For others, who worked better and exceeded the plan by 10%, nothing will change much either. The prize is not great and is it worth it to tear your ass? There is no incentive to glue something complicated, it is much more interesting to rummage around in your garden plot.

    If someone like Stalin or Beria was at the helm, control would work. No plan? You’ll go to fulfill the harvesting plan. With such an incentive, you can set any plan. But after the Khrushchev revolution, the party apparatus appropriated the control function to itself, and then safely threw a bolt on it. Therefore, the USSR economy, no matter how stable the system was, was doomed to stagnation. Reforms, of course, were necessary, only they trusted the labeled fool.

    Now it’s clear why mines are no longer profitable? They were not. Other industries paid extra for coal. Same thing with cotton. It turned out that in China peasants grow the same cotton literally for food. And other Chinese people sew pants from it, also for grub. If you want to compete, be prepared to work like those Chinese. The economies of all sorts of taji and uzbekistan collapsed after independence immediately. What remained afloat in the Baltic? Sprat factories. And now they also had a bad time. :) In Belarus - agriculture and industries working for him. In Ukraine ... let's not talk about the dead.

    They were not stuck in the 90s. They were never in the 90s. The Soviet system no longer works, but a new one of its own has never been formed. Russia, however, broke through this barrier, like an armor-piercing projectile piercing armor: crushing it and breaking itself.
    1. gladcu2
      gladcu2 April 30 2016 14: 06
      +1
      Riv

      At the expense of motivation, remuneration, I do not agree with your statements.

      Any specialty requires experience. And this experience has been developed over the years and decades.
      Remuneration of labor, according to work, cannot grow indefinitely, there is a border all the same. And this boundary is not only related to the productivity of a specialist directly. In the general economy, everything is reduced to some kind of averaged indicator.

      In short, everything was good in terms of wages in the USSR. They said that they were afraid to lose their jobs. Who was afraid and who jumped from work to work from specialty to specialty. Good or bad is hard to say. You all know the D. Puchkov saga about his 77 specialties.

      Well, the main conclusion. The difference in salaries should not exceed 3 times. This is an intuitive metric. Based on real human performance.

      Under capitalism, other constellations. And the motivation is different.
      1. Riv
        Riv April 30 2016 16: 52
        0
        My friend, read Marx. The offer dictates the price. If a worker of this qualification is alone in the country, then for his labor he can ask for a price comparable to the surplus value he creates. Do you seriously believe that a cleaning lady should receive only three times less than the director of the plant?

        Incidentally, this is another misfortune of the post-Soviet space: older people simply do not know how to demand decent pay.
        1. gladcu2
          gladcu2 April 30 2016 19: 51
          0
          Riv

          You buddy, change a dozen works. Get a few professions, and then look at what is written by K. Marx from your point of view.

          If you are a super specialist, do not expect that you will be paid according to work, but forget about surplus value. And then they will add so much that 77 professions of D. Puchkov will be envious.

          The theory of K. Marx does not converge with practice.
          1. Riv
            Riv April 30 2016 22: 41
            0
            Why do I need to change a dozen works? It’s enough for me and my own to make sure that Marx is right. It is specialists in Russia who are now earning normal money.
            What country do you live in yourself? Is it not in Ukraine by chance?
            1. gladcu2
              gladcu2 1 May 2016 18: 35
              0
              Riv

              Do not be silly.

              A specialist is paid well only by the kindness of his spiritual master.

              If he is paid exactly for the food, then the specialist will be glad of it. Because being a specialist, he is not a generalist. It is difficult to find a job for him.

              I've been a specialist so many times in my life. Believe me, a specialist cannot dictate his terms to the owner of the means of production. According to Marx.
  11. Geronimo73
    Geronimo73 April 29 2016 16: 25
    +1
    Does the author consider the Russian model to be a model of development capable of change?
    1. gladcu2
      gladcu2 April 30 2016 14: 13
      0
      Geronimo

      Article is fresh. The author’s thought is not understood at all.

      At the beginning, he says that Belarus and Ukraine are stuck at some stage of development. What does the author mean about development? Gross national product? State infrastructure. Fundamental science?

      Again, with what to compare, which calculation method to choose?

      Then the author has a description of the events, it is not clear for what purpose. The findings of mushrooms are not shown.

      Especially there’s nothing to cling to to develop a topic for discussion.
      1. Olezhek
        April 30 2016 14: 35
        -1
        In the beginning, he says that Belarus and Ukraine are stuck at some stage of development. What does the author mean about development? National gross domestic product?


        Once again: time is a little slowed down there ...
        People live 90's realities
        Therefore, it is impossible to work with them ...

        If you are not familiar with temporal paradoxes in physics / fiction .. then yes, I agree, to understand something difficult.
        1. gladcu2
          gladcu2 April 30 2016 19: 58
          +1
          Olezhek

          I’m sitting and I just can’t figure it out.
          In the 90s rampant crime. Weak state.
          Now Belarus is a strong state. Balanced economy. A high level of state ownership, which perfectly preserves the social protection of the population. Private capital is not included in key public sectors and does not draw a portion of profits from government revenue.

          What are your proposals, the sale of the state in private hands?

          Is this progress?
  12. maxim1987
    maxim1987 April 29 2016 16: 30
    -1
    modern Belarus is what the USSR was supposed to be according to the promises by 2000
    1. Stirbjorn
      Stirbjorn April 29 2016 19: 13
      0
      Only without resources in the form of oil, gas, forests, etc. - there is only potassium, for export
  13. Holsten
    Holsten April 29 2016 16: 34
    +2
    Life is a game . Belarus bet on one, Ukraine bet on the other, and Russia chose to leave the casino.
  14. KB-2
    KB-2 April 29 2016 16: 41
    -4
    the facade in Belarus is certainly good, it was two years ago, but I think that all the same it is at the expense of the Russian Federation
    1. Lex.
      Lex. April 29 2016 18: 36
      +3
      the facade in Belarus is certainly good, it was two years ago, but I think that all the same it is at the expense of the Russian Federation
      This is not at the expense of Russia. Yes, Russia supports the Lukashenko regime so that the West does not support the pro-Western regime. By the way, NATO finances the United States and all new EU countries except the Czech Republic support Germany and France. Greece poured a lot of 300 billion and it will return the money
    2. Verdun
      Verdun April 29 2016 19: 57
      +4
      the facade in Belarus is certainly good, it was two years ago, but I think that all the same it is at the expense of the Russian Federation
      And what prevents the Russian Federation from building an equally attractive facade at its own expense? Or do you think that Belarus has taken all the funds?
  15. Ros 56
    Ros 56 April 29 2016 16: 56
    +4
    I confirm that all of our republics, especially the Baltic states, lived like a king’s bosom, their counters were breaking like in Moscow. I looked at the train, well, let's say from the mid-70s to the end of the 80s, then I shortened the trip, at home, in the kitchen I mastered the repair of cameras, I had to work in Rembyttechnik. Money was needed.
    In general, the article is unusual, there is something to think about, especially about Belarusians, as it did not occur to me. They are brothers, especially after such a war.
  16. WAN
    WAN April 29 2016 17: 02
    0
    Quote: tim00
    to slander real Belarusians, i.e. to the Slavs

    And I didn’t even think.
    There are statistics. At work, I also have to deal with analytics. From tables, promises (not blah blah on the phone, but guarantee letters about payment of debts). In Russia, about 50 to 50 decent / non-decent customers, in Kazakhstan, about the same, in Belarus 10 to 90. Just statistics, nothing personal. And I have a fairly wide circle of friends who have dealt with Belarusians, the reviews are negative. We, too, are full of Jews in commerce, ours are more honest? laughing
  17. Verdun
    Verdun April 29 2016 17: 19
    +4
    It is extremely strange to compare Ukraine stolen by bandits, where serious industry is completely out of control and nationalists rule, with Belarus, whose industry is not sugar in order and thieves. It is clear that neither Belaz, nor MAZ, nor MTZ can be seen from Moscow or from far away ... So you can go to the sites of these enterprises in order to get a general idea. And with electronics, they are also doing well. I talked with our specialist, who regularly travels from Zelenograd to Minsk. A man envies Belarusian colleagues with white envy! I understand that people with the mentality of Khodorkovsky and others like him are envious that they were unable to put a paw on the assets of Belarus. But those who have nothing to share with Lukashenko could look at the situation more soberly.
    1. Stirbjorn
      Stirbjorn April 29 2016 19: 15
      +3
      I would also add an extremely low level of street crime and gas prices, which in the same rubles are significantly lower than in Russia
      1. Olezhek
        April 29 2016 19: 33
        -5
        I would add an extremely low level of street crime


        This is for now ...
        1. Verdun
          Verdun April 29 2016 19: 42
          +1
          This is for now ...
          Well what can I tell you ...
          “The rule of law in the country is determined not by the presence of thieves, but by the ability of the authorities to neutralize them!” (Gleb Zheglov)
          1. Olezhek
            April 29 2016 19: 46
            -2
            The Belarusian model has exhausted itself - something bad will continue ...
            1. Verdun
              Verdun April 29 2016 19: 50
              +3
              Belarusian model has exhausted itself

              Yeah, but does modern capitalism blossom and smell? I am afraid that only for those who have not yet come under the steam rink of the next crisis.
  18. Odysseus
    Odysseus April 29 2016 17: 38
    +4
    The article is not just wrong, but also harmful
    1) “Belarus is stuck in the 90s.” Why is this conclusion drawn? In Belarus, in the early 90s, they carried out the same market reforms as in Russia and Ukraine. The result is the same - a complete disaster. And after 1994 Belarus began to barely rake the consequences of these reforms. The only difference between us is that Belarus. Thank God, she avoided collateral privatization, and the destruction of its economy did not go as far as in Russia. The class of oligarchs who own the country has not been formed, so this is a great blessing and speaks only in favor of Belarus.
    2) "There is an economic catastrophe in Belarus". This, in general, does not fit into any gate. GDP PPP of Belarus is stable - 18 thousand dollars. In Russia, $ 25 thousand and decreases. And this despite the fact that Belarus lives by its own labor, and Russia at the expense of minerals. Even if Belarus "would change like Russia" and carry out the same "effective" economic policy of Kudrin- Nabibulina, half of the Belarusians would have already starved to death.
    3) "Ukraine is stuck in the 90s." Why is that ? In the 90s, Ukraine is a typical oligarchic-bourgeois post-Soviet state, a complete analogue of the Russian Federation only without oil and nuclear weapons. Now it is not a state, but a territory controlled by the United States. Rather, Ukraine is similar to the Russian Federation, more precisely, it shows the Russian Federation her own future in the event that "democratic forces" prevail in Russia and the post-Soviet "vertical of power" is broken.
    4) "Ukraine is similar to Belarus." Yeah, like a horse looks like a plug. Ukraine, a territory controlled by the United States, openly declares that it is at war with Russia. Belarus together with Russia form the Union State. Indeed, very similar smile
    PS "Pro-Western mood is growing in Belarus." Indeed, they are growing slowly, growing because the United States, having won the Ukraine, has shifted its attention to Belarus, Kazakhstan and Armenia. work, attract these countries, and not repel them, as the author of this article.
    1. Ros 56
      Ros 56 April 29 2016 17: 49
      +1
      It may be so, but you forgot something. Namely, cheap gas, cheap, and sometimes free loans, and so on. To judge it is necessary to have complete information, which unfortunately no one has presented.
      1. Odysseus
        Odysseus April 30 2016 11: 39
        +1
        Quote: Ros 56
        It may be so, but you forgot something. Namely, cheap gas, cheap, and sometimes free loans, and so on.

        Yes, it is clear that any union, any friendship implies any useful deeds, services, and sometimes the concessions that you make for your friend.
        It is absurd to reproach a friend with this. He will immediately cease to be your friend and will expose you to the opposite claims. As a result, we will get a "pro-European" Belarus and NATO bases near Smolensk.
        Who will be better off from this?
    2. Razvedchik
      Razvedchik April 29 2016 18: 03
      +5
      Thanks for the comment! Here, many do not catch up with their imbecile chauvinism pushing away the same Russian people as they themselves, who would gladly live in one big country and also enjoy the accession of Crimea to Russia. That the provocateur who wrote the article works for a split, as does the unworthy Regnum, which frightens the gigantic and strongest opposition which does not actually exist. Such an impression is created by the fact that all citizens of us sit and wait with malicious snickers. How can I get the dough out of the gullible from her? Or sell to the bourgeoisie for a barrel of jam. Nobody here simply receives money from us but breaks off like horses, for the salary of which advanced Russians wrinkle their noses!
      We have completely eliminated organized crime, for drug trafficking in large sizes the highest measure, thieves in law were transplanted to all. At work, the strictest discipline of the day is two formal breaks.
      In the 91st they already jumped on a rake "what for we feed her, Bulbache, Ukrainians"! Apparently, some “nursing mothers” liked it, and they fed straight from the tit, except for cockroach. With such fervor, it would be better if the Grefs were convicted and sent, but I probably like to feed the junta
      1. Olezhek
        April 29 2016 19: 53
        -3
        Thanks for the comment! Here, many do not catch up with that with their imbecile chauvinism they repel Russian people just like themselves, who would gladly live in one big country and also enjoyed joining Crimea to Russia.


        You know VERY bad Belarusians ...
    3. Olezhek
      April 29 2016 19: 08
      +1
      The only difference between us is that Belarus. Thank God, I avoided mortgage privatization, and the destruction of its economy has not gone as far as in Russia. The class of oligarchs who own the country has not been formed, so this is a great blessing and speaks only in favor of Belarus.


      You should not think so that in Belarus everything belongs to the people.
      Everything is already there sawed. On the quiet Only visibility was made that the type of socialism ..
      For propaganda, it is more convenient ... Right now, this disguise began to fall off ...

      There is an economic catastrophe in Belarus. "This, in general, does not fit into any gates. The GDP in PPP of Belarus is stable at 18 thousand dollars.


      After Russia began to reduce subsidies, stable Belarus rolled downhill.
      Right now there is the last act of Marlezonsky ballet.

      Ukraine is stuck in the 90s. "Why is this? In the 90s, Ukraine is a typical oligarchic-bourgeois post-Soviet state, a complete analogue of the Russian Federation only without oil and nuclear weapons


      Our paths began to diverge even then at the beginning of the 90's
      The 0 diverged completely and it is not an accident.

      "Ukraine is like Belarus". Yeah, how a horse looks like a plug


      You did not read the article. She's completely different.
      Ukraine and Belarus are two VERY different countries, but the plinth reached simultaneously.
      About volume and article
      1. Odysseus
        Odysseus April 30 2016 12: 10
        +2
        Quote: Olezhek

        After Russia began to reduce subsidies, stable Belarus rolled downhill.
        Right now there is the last act of Marlezonsky ballet.

        Suppose for a second that you are right. So what? I don’t understand what you want to achieve. Push the falling one? After all, your article will simply offend the Belarusians (we have already lost to the Ukrainians in the drum, and nothing depends on them in Ukraine).
        After all, our task attract to you, not push away .Your article is clearly aimed at repulsion.
        1. Olezhek
          April 30 2016 14: 29
          -2
          Suppose for a second that you are right. So what? I do not understand what you want to achieve. Push nudge?


          Suppose? Just study the situation in Belarus and Ukraine ...
          Draw conclusions. About this and the article. If I do not correctly assess the situation
          in RB / Ukraine - object.


          After all, your article will simply offend the Belarusians (we have already lost to the Ukrainians in the drum, and nothing depends on them in Ukraine).
          After all, our task is to attract to itself, and not to push away. Your article is clearly aimed at repulsion.


          You know, Russia owes nothing to anyone. Initially. They want to work together - well!
          Do not want?
          Sorry!
          1. Odysseus
            Odysseus April 30 2016 19: 20
            +1
            Quote: Olezhek
            Just study the situation in Belarus and Ukraine ...
            Draw conclusions. About this and the article. If I do not correctly assess the situation
            in RB / Ukraine - object.

            Wrong estimates. I already wrote about this point by point, I can add
            In Ukraine, with the economic component, everything is right with you, but with the political ..
            All assess Ukraine as a state with politicians and oligarchs who decide something there. And you write that the United States and Europe "do not control everything."
            But Maidan Ukraine is actually territory controlled by the United States (but not Europe). No politicians and oligarchs solve any serious political issues there. The very goal of the United States was to make Ukraine a "zone of chaos" and create problems for Russia. And everything is going according to their plan and fine controlled, and in this chaos was the plan. And Ukraine really will not comply with Minsk-2, but not because their politicians are "stuck in the 90s," but because it is unprofitable for the United States. They need an endless war between Ukraine and Russia. War until the last Ukrainian. And while in Kiev he is "Maidan government" this war (in various forms) will continue.
            As for Belarus, you are wrong even economically. Yes, there are economic problems there now, but why did you decide that their economy is collapsing? In 2014, their economic indicators were better than in Russia, in 2015 at the same level. The GDP of Belarus in the 15th year fell by 3,9%, ours by 3,6%. Where is such a disaster here? Saying so you are like Obama, only he spoke about the "collapse" of the Russian economy.
            But the main thing is not that, even if you were absolutely right, your article would have been harmful anyway. You still haven’t answered why you hit on Russian-Belarusian relations? After all, your article is aimed specifically at the gap. For what purpose?
            Quote: Olezhek
            You know, Russia owes nothing to anyone. Initially. They want to work together - well!
            Do not want?
            Sorry!

            This is a frivolous statement of the question. Even the United States, with its printing press, nuclear-powered aircraft carriers, and hundreds of bases around the world, doesn’t work like that, and if they do, they’ll quickly lose their hegemony. - striving to attract by all means.
            And if we act according to your principles, we will be left alone. Sovsem alone without friends and allies, surrounded by "enemies and traitors"
    4. Olezhek
      April 29 2016 19: 55
      0
      PS "Pro-Western mood is growing in Belarus." Indeed, they are slowly growing. They are growing because the United States, having won in Ukraine, has shifted all its attention to Belarus, Kazakhstan and Armenia. They work, they attract these countries, and do not alienate them, as the author of this article.


      The USA did not win in Ukraine, they destroyed it and left it to rot on the side of the road.

      With the same purpose they moved to Minsk (but do not tell Belarusians about it ....).
    5. Vladivostok
      Vladivostok April 30 2016 07: 02
      -1
      Belarus lives on its own labor, and Russia at the expense of minerals

      It’s a pity that I can put only one minus for this.
      And, for your information: minerals must first be found, then mined, then delivered to the consumer. And also to rebuild the entire infrastructure, when on the shelf, and when in the Arctic. And prepare specialists ..
      And in Primorye, we also catch fish. But according to your logic, this is also not work. Freebie apparently. He snapped his fingers and ...
      1. Odysseus
        Odysseus April 30 2016 12: 02
        +1
        Quote: Vladivostok
        And, for your information: minerals must first be found, then mined, then delivered to the consumer

        Actually, all this was done back in the Soviet Union. Present-day Russia is only supports the Soviet infrastructure. And the oligarchs receive money from the looting of the former public property. There are new deposits, but their percentage is small.
        But in general, you are right, to get something is also a lot of work associated with production.
        But still it Extractionrather than processing production. You can feel the full dependence of present-day Russia on oil and gas prices in practice over the past year.
        But here we scoop out all the bowels, and then what?
        Quote: Vladivostok
        And in Primorye, we also catch fish. But according to your logic, this is also not work.

        Labor, of course, is very respected.
        Quote: Vladivostok
        It’s a pity that I can put only one minus for this.

        This is perpendicular to me, for example, I put you a plus smile
  19. Pitot
    Pitot April 29 2016 18: 31
    +2
    I think that neither say nor do what, but you still have to return to socialism ....
  20. Borus017
    Borus017 April 29 2016 18: 54
    +4
    The article is pro-European. It implies that Europoliticians "want the best." In practice, it doesn't look like it.
    With Belarus - in my opinion, "far-fetched". The global crisis could not but affect the Old Man. So in Russia it is not a "dream country". For example, we buy Belarusian tractors - because they are cheaper. The quality is worse than the Chinese ones. And Belarusian footwear is better than ours, and cheaper again. If we adhere to the "liberal" system of values ​​- what is generally preached by the author - so the unprofitable Russian offers were followed by a natural Belarusian refusal? After all, an ADVANTAGEOUS offer would be accepted, you just need to convince your partner? Or is it the evil Old Man secretly cherished anti-Russian plans 10 years ago?
    Ukraine: in 10-11gg, it was possible to go to Kharkov to treat teeth - about half the price than in Russia, and the quality is good. In the outback they survived as best they could - and in Russia the same thing as in the 90s, than in the 2000s. And the factory that produced ceramic insulators redesigned for souvenirs. And it’s not dead - how many plants do we have? Shizik-Natsik, of course, were then, but mostly in Western women. Corruption? Of course abruptly Russian, but nothing supernatural. Both in Russia and among Ukrainians everything could be decided by connections and acquaintances.
    But the information and ideological war, Russia, in Belarus and in Hohland, laughed enchantingly. That you just need to give someone credit. Well, again from the position of the author, if the "showcase of Russian capitalism" turned out to be unattractive to our neighbors, then who is to blame? Right! Not a PR manager and advertiser - but a buyer! Nifiga he, a shovel consumer, does not understand the right product!
    1. Olezhek
      April 29 2016 19: 48
      -3
      But the information and ideological war Russia that in Belarus that in Hohland laughed enchantingly


      You know - you can't save clowns ...
      Ukrainians dreamed of "European integration" shozh a flag in their hands and a bag for alms around their neck ...
    2. Plato
      Plato April 30 2016 11: 00
      +1
      Speak correctly. Russia is a ruined economy and works only on the consumption of imported goods.
      1. Olezhek
        April 30 2016 14: 31
        -1
        Russia is a ruined economy and works only on the consumption of imported goods.


        Absolutely say!
        Babama, too, was talking about the Russian economy torn to shreds ...
        A black man will not lie ...
  21. R-22
    R-22 April 29 2016 22: 08
    +4
    I completely agree with Odysseus, plus you, and minus the article, since the article is with a sweet spot. And many more say that it is necessary to take the model of China and there will be happiness, but sometimes forgetting that China has a whole market for the world, but the atoms in the world will rush to Belarus to take goods (if that does not happen the will of Uncle Sam) this is the question ...
  22. Plato
    Plato April 30 2016 10: 58
    0
    Starting an article with a link to the authority of scientists, the author put himself on a par with them.
    But he is not a scientist and did not even stand close to thinking people. He is a Bolshevik of the worst kind, although now they are called liberals. Their credo is "To the ground and then ..."
    If in the Russian Federation such a president as Old Man Lukashenko, there would be no collapse of the economy, education, science, industry. Mr. Putin speaks a lot, speaks a lot, but he does not realize much. Only the clatter of clueless about the need to do something, but nothing is done.
    1. Olezhek
      April 30 2016 14: 43
      -1
      Starting an article with a link to the authority of scientists, the author put himself on a par with them.
      But he is not a scientist, and even close to the thinking people did not stand.


      Send photos of the Nobel Peace Prize award ?? (I'm there two steps from Obama !!)