Military Review

Retribution weapons? Somewhere we already heard it

51



22 April, the press service of the Ukrainian National Security and Defense Council announced the successful testing of a new tactical missile. As the First Deputy Secretary of the National Security and Defense Council Oleg Gladovsky said, a rocket can carry different types of warheads, up to nuclear ones, over a distance of 300 kilometers. Ukrainian media emphasize that the rocket is guided, and it is possible to carry out a full volley during the entire 38 seconds.

Also noted loud statements and the Secretary of the NSDC Turchinov, who oversaw the tests personally.

Retribution weapons? Somewhere we already heard it


“Before the military-industrial complex, our scientists and designers were given the task of ensuring the production of Ukrainian missiles without at least one component made in the Russian Federation. Oboronprom together with scientists adequately completed the task. Our rocket has completely fulfilled the planned target and hit exactly the intended target. ”

"We are preparing for the use of powerful and effective missiles that will reliably protect our country."

According to Turchinov, Ukrainian scientists and developers are working on several promising developments in this area.

In the authoritative blog BMPD this event was commented like this:

The type and even class for the first time tested 22 of March 2016 of the new Ukrainian-made guided missile is not reported, and high-quality photos and videos with the image of the rocket have not been published. However, taking into account the available information and the fact that the missile launch at a relatively small angle of elevation was made from a self-propelled launcher on the MAZ-543 wheeled chassis, it can be concluded that the first test of the 300-mm “Vilkha” adjustable missile (Olkha ") for use from the Smerch multiple rocket launcher. The Alder rocket is developed by the Yuzhnoye Design Bureau named after them. M.K.Yangelya "(Dnepropetrovsk), the control system (apparently combining inertial guidance with GPS correction) is created by the State Enterprise" Kyiv State Design Bureau "Luch" (http://bmpd.livejournal.com/1802988.html) .

Based on the foregoing, it can be assumed that the test rocket used a standard MLRS Smerch rocket with an installed new control compartment developed by the GKKB Luch.

Can Alder be considered a tactical rocket, as presented by the Ukrainian media?

Definitely not.

According to experts, the Ukrainians simply supplied the new control unit with a projectile for the MLRS Smerch. "Tornado" is very difficult to call modern weapons. Still, 1987 year. And, by the way, the fact that Gladkovsky called the number 38 seconds confirms this. The time of the salvo of the "new weapon" strikingly coincides with the data of "Tornado".

Accordingly, we are talking about upgrading the Smerchka CU. And it is quite possible to speak of corrected ammunition, but not of a tactical missile. And similar munitions were in service with the Soviet Army.
Soviet missiles were based on an inertial correction system, which provided angular stabilization of projectiles in the active part of the trajectory, plus range correction due to the correction to the time of separation of the head section. For that time, the system provided good accuracy and accuracy. In modern conditions, this system is supplemented with a correction according to satellite navigation data.

And here begins some of the problems that can somewhat spoil the whole picture.

Ukraine does not have its own satellite constellation, and the situation is unlikely to drastically improve in the coming decades. Yes, the Ukrainian military can use GPS or GLONASS data.

The problem, however, is that the "civilian" versions of the American and Russian systems give quite significant errors in determining the coordinates, and the military ...

I doubt that the United States will provide the Ukrainian military with frequencies of its system. Given the “order” that exists today in the Armed Forces of Ukraine, this would be a very irresponsible act. The same can be said about Russia.

Accordingly, in the absence of satellite accompaniment, the accuracy of the Alder will remain at the level of the 90 of the 20 of the 20th century.

The range is also not impressive. And in the stated number of kilometers in 300, you can even doubt. After all, the increase in the firing range of the same "Smerches" and "Tornado-S" was primarily due to the use of lighter, but effective solid composite fuel. Which, alas, has never been done in Ukraine.

Is it possible to develop and, most importantly, assemble a modern rocket and produce fuel efficiently using our own resources in Ukraine?

With some probability - yes. Still, in the Ukraine from the Soviet time there was a substantial part of such production, but many of the components, units and assemblies were received by Ukrainian rocket-propellers from Russia. Now, of course, these channels are blocked, but Ukraine cannot do anything on its own.

Yuzhnoye Design Bureau had vast experience in the development of missiles. But. These were intercontinental ballistic missiles, the same "Satan". On liquid fuel. Nevertheless, the ICBM is quite different from a tactical missile.

Even if the "Yuzhny" and make the necessary calculations and develop a new rocket, where, say, it will collect? On the "Yuzhmash"? Ok was in stories factory is. But then the following questions arise: who and what? In the media of both Ukrainian and Russian, the topic of the state of Yuzhmash was raised more than once. A state if not bankrupt, then standing one step away from bankruptcy, with hundreds of workers laid off (some of whom are working in Russia today, at similar enterprises), with equipment being sold ... Doubtful.

In addition, let's not forget that the test sample was a prototype. The serial production of “Alder” is only to be set up, and it’s hard to say how long it will take to do this.

It is appropriate to recall the sad history of Thailand, which concluded a supply contract tank "Hold". Since the conclusion of the contract in 2011 to 2016, Thailand received 10 tanks out of 54 ordered. And in the APU these miracle machines are also not observed. At least in dozens.

If the production of the Alder will develop as rapidly as the work with Oplot, then anyone who should have been frightened by the "new" Ukrainian tactical missiles can sleep peacefully. Not in this life.

In the meantime, the naked eye can see that the Kiev junta is trying to saber with arms for campaigning purposes, and not for military-practical purposes. Before practice is still very far.

In addition, we should not forget that at the disposal of Russia, to which all this sabering is directed, there are also the latest EW complexes. And this is an area in which Ukraine is not just lagging behind forever, but it is unlikely to be able to develop at least something that is really capable of withstanding those complexes that are already in service. Although they were developed by 10-15 years ago.

What then to talk about the latest developments such as "Moscow"?

As a result, with the hype and fanfare, the reports on the creation and testing of "miracle weapons" can actually be a simple upgrade of a fairly old, albeit time-tested, weapon. It is difficult to say what the gentlemen from the National Security and Defense Council of Ukraine really hope for. But to rely on these developments today is not so simple. At least, simply because they are hopelessly outdated, and the very likelihood of their mass production is low.
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  1. cap
    cap April 27 2016 06: 17
    +10
    In addition, let's not forget that the test sample was a prototype. The serial production of “Alder” is only to be set up, and it’s hard to say how long it will take to do this.

    This is not "Alder" but an aspen stake, which will be attacked by the 404 country as soon as the miracle weapon comes into position.
    That's how it seems to me so. am
    1. Darkmor
      Darkmor April 27 2016 09: 49
      +12
      300km flight range? Rave.
      Or it should be a short-range ballistic missile (on launch it is clear that this is not so)
      Or it should be a cruise missile (which cannot be made on the basis of a 300mm tornado, the caliber is small).
      Or does the glory of "calibers" haunt the Ukrainians?
      1. g1v2
        g1v2 April 27 2016 15: 47
        +4
        Everything is much simpler. VSU has tornadoes and hurricanes, but there is no BP for them. There are points, but no rockets. Therefore, they rarely use them in the Donbass - it’s not enough, and the expiration date has expired or has already expired. Nowhere to buy - in eastern Europe they simply do not exist. Only hail. So they are trying to create surrogates so that there is something to shoot. That's just the cost of producing missiles for heavy RSZO and tactical complexes for dill beyond the border. You can create a sample - all these are Soviet models, but there is nothing to deploy to the pr-in. hi
        1. Orionvit
          Orionvit April 27 2016 22: 42
          0
          What is the production in Ukraine? What is the Ukrainian military-industrial complex? Do not make me laugh. Of all the enterprises with complex, high-tech production, only Motor Sich remained. Yes, and he breathes in incense. I know what I'm writing about. We launched an ordinary tornado rocket, and reported to the whole world about the next "peremog". For Svidomo idiots who are still shouting hurray, like we can.
        2. CALL.
          CALL. April 26 2017 19: 26
          0
          It is hard to say what the gentlemen from the National Security and Defense Council of Ukraine really hope.

          No, it's simple. In the Navy they say this: - "All the steam went to the whistle." Ordinary PR, in order to extend his filthy existence in power. It has already been in history. Hitler also hoped for a "superweapon." Everything in this world is repeated: - first in the form of tragedy, and then in the form of farce.
      2. Aryan
        Aryan April 28 2016 01: 29
        +2
        Reminds one joke ....
    2. The comment was deleted.
    3. siberalt
      siberalt April 27 2016 12: 11
      +3
      Maybe this "Alder" will fly 300 km, but even its creators do not know where it will fall. laughing
  2. kind
    kind April 27 2016 06: 17
    +11
    Is it possible to develop and, most importantly, assemble a modern rocket and produce fuel efficiently using our own resources in Ukraine?

    What for ? It's easier to buy firecrackers in China! laughing
    1. Kos_kalinki9
      Kos_kalinki9 April 27 2016 06: 31
      +7
      It's easier to buy firecrackers in China!

      BUY? Yes, you sho? The whole world Krajina MUST. And YOU buy. So should give, are simply obliged.
    2. inkass_98
      inkass_98 April 27 2016 07: 00
      +7
      Everything is possible, almost done laughing and even constantly used (link opens in a new tab):
  3. poma
    poma April 27 2016 06: 22
    +6
    But the ukrogiants keep themselves in shape. Self-awareness at the height of an exceptional nation.

    People then hawala ...
  4. Volga Cossack
    Volga Cossack April 27 2016 06: 24
    +4
    The last days of some Reich account ??????? The weapon of Retribution - damn it))))) there are no words!
  5. The comment was deleted.
  6. Combitor
    Combitor April 27 2016 06: 48
    +21
    ........................
  7. aszzz888
    aszzz888 April 27 2016 07: 14
    +5
    "We are preparing for the use of powerful and effective missiles that will reliably protect our country."
    Neither give nor take - Hitler ukrokaklolvsky! laughing
  8. Alex_59
    Alex_59 April 27 2016 07: 17
    +8
    Can Alder be considered a tactical rocket, as presented by the Ukrainian media?

    Definitely not.
    Why not? MLRS Tornado quite a tactical weapon. Another question is that Ukrainians, as always, give out long-worked Soviet weapons for allegedly new tactical weapons.
    "Tornado" is very difficult to call a modern weapon. Still 1987.
    Well, that's too much. Whether it is modern or not is the tenth question. The main thing is that it is an effective and very dangerous weapon. So to call your own "Smerch" obsolete just to stomp on the Ukrainians is somewhat silly.
    1. Lopatov
      Lopatov April 27 2016 09: 01
      +3
      Quote: Alex_59
      Well, this is too much.

      No, not too much. It is really out of date. And indeed, active work is underway to bring it in line.

      But their main problem at the moment is not ammunition. Control system. With which they deal. As an example, KSAUO "Slip-1"
      1. Alex_59
        Alex_59 April 27 2016 09: 12
        +1
        Quote: Spade
        No, not too much. It is really out of date. And indeed, active work is underway to bring it in line.

        But their main problem at the moment is not ammunition. Control system. With which they deal. As an example, KSAUO "Slip-1"

        Well, I meant the artillery unit, not the complex. I can’t say anything about self-propelled guns, I’m not competent. Although of course in the artillery unit there is probably something to complain about - by today's fashion standards. Nevertheless, I do not want to fall under the cover.
        1. Lopatov
          Lopatov April 27 2016 10: 33
          +2
          Quote: Alex_59
          Well, I meant the artillery unit, not the complex.

          That is your mistake. In modern warfare, it is the complex that matters.

          By the way, here Ukraine has a big plus. Their use of the simplest UBLFDS command and control complex they created for Afghanistan can reduce the criticality of the skills of artillery officers
          1. your1970
            your1970 April 27 2016 12: 57
            +1
            I wonder how efficient it is? We had a BUiAR commander from Afghanistan (1984) a Japanese computer, naturally without ZhyPySy, I had to manually enter my coordinates, but people were very envious of him ..
            1. Lopatov
              Lopatov April 27 2016 15: 30
              +1
              Quote: your1970
              I wonder how efficient it is?

              Allows a dumb jacket in the absence of a trained calculator and in the absence of trained gun commanders to perform the functions of a senior battery officer. At least in terms of design.

              Quote: your1970
              we had a BUiAR commander with Afghanistan (1984), a Japanese computer, naturally without ZhyPySy, I had to manually enter my coordinates, but people were very envious of him ..

              It's all about specialized programs, not just technology.
              1. your1970
                your1970 April 27 2016 19: 43
                +2
                I mean, how real is this 404 release device really working? If they release it in series, this is one song, piece by piece ..

                "Japanese calculator-naturally without" - the device allowed a lot: the entered coordinates of five (in my opinion) points and azimuth made it possible to determine the coordinates of the target, pave the way - like a topographic surveyor, introduced meteo (wind speed and direction-temperature and humidity measured by myself), etc. the data made it possible to solve all art problems, even the distance of the measurements (small with a laser, large according to the principle of a stopwatch and gaps according to the speed of sound) - but very accurately due to meteorological data allowing to accurately measure the speed of sound. Calibrated only for a very long time - 10-15 minutes, thought .... And yes - they also dragged the battery with it, it was designed for batteries - the signalmen changed it into a 55k car belay
                Replaced almost the entire battery of artillery reconnaissance repeat repeat with all devices-compasses, topo-loaders, gyro
        2. Orionvit
          Orionvit April 27 2016 22: 57
          0
          Guys, I can see from you. This is a typical Ukrainian fake, in other words, a swindler for Svidomo. I will repeat myself. For a long time, Ukraine has neither personnel nor the capacity to develop and make a rocket, and even more so a control unit. The more developed powers failed to cope with this task. It was launched by an ordinary missile from the Smerch MLRS. And you are quite seriously discussing what cannot be by definition.
    2. Mik13
      Mik13 April 27 2016 09: 14
      +3
      Quote: Alex_59
      Why not? MLRS Tornado quite a tactical weapon. Another question is that Ukrainians, as always, give out long-worked Soviet weapons for allegedly new tactical weapons.

      Quote: Alex_59
      Well, that's too much. Whether it is modern or not is the tenth question. The main thing is that it is an effective and very dangerous weapon. So to call your own "Smerch" obsolete just to stomp on the Ukrainians is somewhat silly.

      Here the fact is that as a MLRS Smerch - a completely modern product. But as a tactical missile with a single fire ...

      For example, the NSV is a perfectly suitable machine gun, and quite accurate. But if a large-caliber sniper rifle is made of clay, sticks and blue electrical tape from it, the result will be, let's say, somewhat ambiguous ...

      PS - no, they did indeed commit this rape of a machine gun in a particularly perverse form. I don’t even know if it’s a zrad or overdone ...

      [Center]
      1. Mik13
        Mik13 April 27 2016 09: 31
        +6
        Found larger.
        Perverts ...
        1. Lopatov
          Lopatov April 27 2016 15: 33
          0
          This looks especially stupid against the background of the fact that even American snipers used the 12.7 machine gun directly for high-precision shooting during the Vietnam War. In addition to the need to arrange races with his alteration in Rouge.
      2. The comment was deleted.
      3. the villain
        the villain April 27 2016 21: 48
        0
        Quote: Mik13

        PS - no, they did indeed commit this rape of a machine gun in a particularly perverse form. I don’t even know if it’s a zrad or overdone ...

        So these (obscene word) and from the Kalashnikov "made a sniper rifle", by removing the gas engine, the winners (not with their hands, but with oud) were overjoyed, and they got to the NSV, sniping, America, a pancake was discovered, ruining a good machine gun, on which optics were already installed.
    3. The comment was deleted.
  9. PatriotNeUra
    PatriotNeUra April 27 2016 07: 33
    +5
    The problem, however, is that the "civilian" versions of the American and Russian systems give quite significant errors in determining the coordinates ...

    As a surveyor, I can say that the accuracy of civilian geodetic GPS / GLONASS receivers is millimeter. Household receivers give an accuracy of 3-5 meters. It seems to me that this is more than enough.
    1. Pavel Tsybai
      Pavel Tsybai April 27 2016 12: 18
      +2
      Greetings to a colleague. The whole question in speed is the place of determination. A rocket flies very fast. And you stop at work and wait, for greater accuracy.
    2. your1970
      your1970 April 27 2016 20: 01
      0
      almost even more precisely, Ozi RUSS displays on the pyramids (along 2-kilometers) within 1-2 meters, given that he is stupidly godless, he loses satellites constantly and has not been updated since 2009
  10. Monster_Fat
    Monster_Fat April 27 2016 08: 09
    +15
    You better take a close look at the photo at the beginning of the article. Next to the group of persons observing the tests is the observation device PNV-1 (or 2?). So look at him carefully. Firstly, it is fixed to the tripod "upside down", Secondly: since the "official" mounts were at the top, it is attached to the tripod with an elastic band, like the one used to attach luggage to the trunks of bicycles, scooters and so on. This clearly shows at what level everything "is" that concerns technology and scientific achievements in "modern" Ukraine.
    1. Captain nemo
      Captain nemo April 27 2016 11: 11
      0
      Quote: Monster_Fat
      So look at him carefully. Firstly, it is fixed to the tripod "upside down"

      No, it’s not, I don’t know what kind of device it is, but at 08 seconds the video is not looked upside down.
      1. Bramb
        Bramb April 27 2016 11: 21
        0
        So I say: a normal device.
        They screwed it off from somewhere, and here is a check, there’s nothing to start to look at! Unscrewed and brought back. -Where are the mounts? -What mounts? Rubber band trailer: and so it goes!
        1. Monster_Fat
          Monster_Fat April 27 2016 16: 10
          +1
          This is the D-49 binocular.
    2. bk316
      bk316 April 27 2016 19: 59
      +3
      Quote: Monster_Fat
      surveillance device PNV-1 (or 2?). So look at him carefully. Firstly, it is fixed to the tripod "upside down"


      I used that. This is D-49 and it is not upside down. It's just that a special tripod is needed for him, they call him a fork, he clamps it from the bottom and from the sides. A rare thing to see in Hohland was not found, screwed to something similar.
  11. Arkan
    Arkan April 27 2016 08: 19
    +6
    If the production of the Alder will develop as rapidly as the work with Oplot, then anyone who should have been frightened by the "new" Ukrainian tactical missiles can sleep peacefully. Not in this life.



    We must work harder, more thoroughly!
  12. rus-5819
    rus-5819 April 27 2016 08: 42
    +1
    Quote: Kos_kalinki9
    It's easier to buy firecrackers in China!

    BUY? Yes, you sho? The whole world Krajina MUST. And YOU buy. So should give, are simply obliged.


    It was the train of the "Great Ukrainian Silk Road" that came back empty.
  13. rotmistr60
    rotmistr60 April 27 2016 08: 59
    +1
    The weapon of retaliation?

    It’s time to directly tell Ukrainian gunsmiths that they are sculpting everything from what is at hand. But what kind of speeches sound:
    “We are preparing to use powerful and effective missiles that will reliably protect our country”
  14. dmitrii.safonov.dm
    dmitrii.safonov.dm April 27 2016 09: 10
    0
    So sorry for the firecrackers! The instructions in Russian, or Chinese, again beguiled!
    1. Monster_Fat
      Monster_Fat April 27 2016 09: 37
      +1
      You can’t give them firecrackers, they will launch, as usual, for something else flying over Ukraine, and we, again, must answer for it.
  15. nikolaij.w.78
    nikolaij.w.78 April 27 2016 09: 35
    0
    Again they want to cut money from someone like to produce rockets or conclude contracts both with a stronghold and in bushes.
  16. Gray 43
    Gray 43 April 27 2016 09: 49
    0
    300 kilometers range? Losers!)))) Vakula's blacksmith flew on the line and further))))
  17. Editor
    Editor April 27 2016 10: 35
    0
    it’s quite suitable for shelling Donetsk ...
  18. The comment was deleted.
  19. kolobok63
    kolobok63 April 27 2016 11: 19
    +1
    Recently, the media has a tendency of great forgiveness and the establishment of relations both economic and political. Friends, do not flatter yourself! Ukrainians will be deceived once again! Remember the common phrase: he betrayed once ...
    Even if they threaten us with slingshots, it’s funny! Let them build an underwater fleet (which will only dive in the steppes of the Krai), besides laughter, they don’t pretend to be anything! They’ve already dug up the sea, they’ll build a fleet! hi
    1. Lelek
      Lelek April 27 2016 12: 49
      0
      Quote: kolobok63
      ! Ukrainians once again deceive! Remember the common phrase: betrayed once ...


      Yes, they are not particularly encrypted. Vaughn is already creating a battalion "Crimea" subordinate to the General Staff of the Armed Forces of Ukraine.
      (cry.)
  20. SerB60
    SerB60 April 27 2016 11: 26
    +1
    At 11:24 M, three puppyweeds were noted by the minuses of the article)
  21. dvg1959
    dvg1959 April 27 2016 11: 41
    +2
    They still did not understand that weapons are a source of increased danger.
    But the Ukrainian weapon, it very often shoots at its own.
  22. givigor71
    givigor71 April 27 2016 12: 38
    +4
    Descendants of the executioner Bandera,
    Found and tested on the Maidan,
    The weapon that feeds Vera
    People jumping him a name.

    b is determined in two hopes,
    By reluctance to jump at once it is visible.
    That's just coveted Europe
    Do not skip with Ukraine! It's a shame!

    And nothing after the first races,
    The storyline was defined like this:
    Donetsk century does not heal sores
    And Crimea fell off from "nezalezhnaya"!
  23. Wolka
    Wolka April 27 2016 14: 43
    0
    the country needs heroes, but dill so far has only fools ...
  24. Lord blacwood
    Lord blacwood April 27 2016 15: 01
    0
    Most likely the story will be the same as with Oplot.
  25. Kibl
    Kibl April 27 2016 16: 21
    0
    As a child, Ukrainian rocket scientists did not play enough "towns"!
  26. NHKp
    NHKp April 28 2016 18: 28
    0
    Bad jokes, but what prevents from filling it with stuffing from any nuclear power plant in Ukraine and letting it through Russia? The so-called "dirty bomb"
  27. kunstkammer
    kunstkammer April 27 2017 01: 10
    0
    Here you are comparing performance characteristics, new or not new, they can or not.
    Well, it’s just another thing that amazes me - after all, these bastards are really preparing to fight with Russia! They themselves inflame, enter into a rage ... Madness is simple. Already consider themselves winners.
    And all because this enemy hydra was not finished off at the time in the Donbass. You can’t let her grow and increase her anger.
    It is not worth hoping that she will come to her senses or fall apart by herself. Moreover, the worse she’s doing, the more real her aggression is not only against Donbass, but also Russia.
    Our expectation is "it is not clear what?" only inflames their sick imagination and enters into a rage. They are already thinking in Rostov on the Don of Muscovites.
    And we are all waiting ...
    Now it may not be worth fighting directly with them. But to establish a fierce sanitary cordon with this infection is simply necessary. No trading or cash handouts. Their complete isolation.
    Up to the point that it is already blocking the pumping of gas through Ukrainian territory. Nothing, Europeans stink at first, but then become more accommodating about the quick construction of a northern or southern route.
    And further. After all, half the population lives there - Russian people. How was it so processed that they sometimes more purely Ukrainians themselves fierce and hate Russia and all Russian? What excuse do they come up with for themselves?
    I remember I was very surprised in the 90s: only yesterday, it seems, they studied in the Union together at a military school in Moscow, the beds were sleeping nearby - Russian and Moldavian. And now this officer of the Soviet Army, the Moldavian went to Transnistria to kill the Russian "invaders"! I was shocked - and this is my former friend ???
    And now, Russians in Ukraine are raging against Russians in the Donbass !!!
    What to do with them? You can’t fix them anymore.