Military Review

Ukraine admitted defeat on the underwater front

57
Ukraine admitted defeat on the underwater frontThe Minister of Defense of Ukraine finally recognized the obvious: the revival of the underwater fleet countries impossible. Thus, Kiev put an end to the recently announced optimistic plans to acquire submarines and threaten the region from the bottom of the sea. These plans were initially doomed to failure: Ukraine has neither the means nor the personnel to carry out such a serious undertaking.


From the bottom to the ground


Ukrainian Defense Minister Stepan Poltorak said that his country would have to abandon plans for the creation of a submarine fleet. “Today we cannot count on submarines,” he said, answering a relevant question in an interview with the Ukrainian 5 channel.

“Everyone warned that these ridiculous and useless“ Wishlocks ”would end in zilch, which we are seeing now”

Force should be thrown at more real things, he believes - for example, to strengthen the so-called special operations forces. "The acquisition of combat capabilities" for those planned until the end of 2016, added Poltorak.

Poltorak’s statement directly contradicts the words of Vice-Admiral Sergei Haiduk, who until recently held the post of Commander-in-Chief of the Ukrainian Navy. In January, he declared that Ukraine would not only revive the submarine fleet, but also increase it. “Our plans provide for reviving submarine forces as part of two to four submarines before 2020. Submarine forces should become the fleet elite and an important combat, moral, psychological and deterrent factor in the region, ”he said, pointing out possible options for achieving the goal. “These can be ultra-small, small or even medium-sized submarines, including on loan,” he said.

Sergei Haiduk 15 April was dismissed from his post by order of President Petro Poroshenko. On Monday, he appointed Lieutenant-General Igor Voronchenko to take his place. “Taking into account the position of volunteers and the public and taking into account the systemic deficiencies in the performance of official duties, as well as the low authority among the service staff, I decided to dismiss Serhiy Haiduk from the post of commander of the Naval Forces of the Ukrainian Armed Forces,” Poroshenko himself wrote on Facebook explaining the reason for Haiduk’s resignation.

Were there any submarines?


Ukraine lost the submarine fleet in 2014 year - after the referendum in the Crimea, where residents voted to reunite the peninsula with Russia. Then the only submarine that was at the disposal of Ukraine since 1997 of the year was in Russia. Submarine “Zaporozhye”, made under the Soviet project 641, became famous not only because it was Kiev’s only, but also in the Hollywood adventure film “Black Sea”. This boat was hardly suitable for real military operations - it had ceased to meet the requirements of modern naval combat at the beginning of the 1980s, and now it is completely unsafe for the crew.

The fact that the boat was out of order was reported to the General Staff of the Russian Navy immediately after the boat was in their possession, along with half of its crew who decided to go to the side of the Russian Federation.

With regard to the ability of Kiev to revive the submarine fleet, the futility of this idea is not only in the high cost and inappropriateness of such a decision. Another interesting fact is also the lack of space for the submarine fleet. Ukraine can theoretically place it in the ports of Odessa and Illichivsk, but it is unlikely that the necessary infrastructure has been preserved there. “Considering the fact that the submarine base in Balaklava was transformed into a port for business yachts, it can be assumed that the infrastructure for submarine basing in Odessa today is actually lost,” Admiral Viktor Kravchenko, the former commander of the Black Sea Fleet of the Russian Federation, said in a conversation with the newspaper VIEW.
"Wanted" Wishlist "will end with zilch, which we are now seeing"

According to the chairman of the Fleet Support Movement, Captain First Rank Mikhail Nenashev, all the projects and dreams of the Ukrainian authorities speak about the immaturity of the leadership and the failure of Ukraine as a state. “The whole world was ironic about the Ukrainian submarine project. Everyone warned that these ridiculous and useless “Wishlocks” would end in zilch, which we are now seeing, ”Nenashev told the LOOK newspaper.

According to him, Ukraine realized that from the point of view of economic opportunities, lack of training and the lack of such military tasks, the country will not be able to independently carry out such a project. “The West probably said that he would give money only for the payment of interest on IMF loans. And the submarine fleet is always a big financial means and the most complicated system of personnel training. Probably, those who offered to create a submarine fleet of Ukraine "sobered up" a few months ago, "Nenashev believes."

“Ukraine does not need a submarine fleet, it has no prospects. They need several border guard boats to secure economic interests. This is exactly the same fleet as Romania, Bulgaria. In addition to training, for the submarine fleet need an ideology, worldview, which should be brought up among the people. Ukrainian state is only twenty years old. But even if during this time it did not take place, then questions about the very prospects of the Ukrainian state are open. And as for the creation of the fleet, all the specialists, both in Russia and in the West, had only one smirk, ”noted Mikhail Nenashev.

He emphasized that the naval community of Russia is most surprised at how Kiev commanders and military who “at least understand the seriousness of certain projects” are not afraid to be ridiculous and stupid.

"Saakashvili once tried to take Moscow"


In turn, the president of the Ukrainian Center for System Analysis and Forecasting Rostislav Ischenko believes that at one time Haiduk could just as well declare the consciousness of the space fleet.

“It’s clear to any normal person that if submarines fall from somewhere in the sky, you still need at least a trained crew. If you have not had a single submariner over the past 25 years except for those who were listed in the non-floating Zaporizhia boat, this means that you will need about ten years for the appearance of the first trained crew, ”Ischenko told the LOOK to newspaper.
According to him, it is also necessary for the officers to have experience in swimming, so that some of them, as a result of five years, would be able to head the crew of the submarine. “If someone in the past had delirious intentions to create a submarine fleet, then I remind you that the Ukrainian admirals, who were more than ships, were delirious with the creation of the ocean fleet. The missile cruiser "Ukraine" was going to be released into the open spaces of the World Ocean ... Last year, the command of the Ukrainian armed forces declared that they should not take anything from Bryansk, Rostov, and Oryol. And Saakashvili once tried to take Moscow. Who knows what they say. There are entire institutions where Napoleons still live in wards, ”the political scientist sneers.

He asks the question: how much should one not respect oneself in order to produce admiral ranks who by definition could not command with one ship for their entire service?

“And they were made in packs, and many were promoted to the highest admiral ranks. Kuzmuk, the Minister of Defense, was promoted to extraordinary generals under Kuchma even faster than Zhukov under Stalin during the Great Patriotic War. Feel the difference. Zhukov won military campaigns and battles, and General Kuzmuk accomplished only two feats: he hit a rocket at a residential building in Brovary and into a Russian Tu-154 plane over the Black Sea in October 2001. For this he received three promotions and four orders. With this approach to the construction of the armed forces, you can say anything, ”Rostislav Ischenko is sure.
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http://www.vz.ru/world/2016/4/25/807304.html
57 comments
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  1. bad
    bad April 27 2016 05: 19
    +7
    He asks the question: how much should one not respect oneself in order to produce admiral ranks who by definition could not command with one ship for their entire service?
    ..well they love kakly tinsel, medals for the dug Black Sea .. earlier they laughed at the dictators of the banana republics, and now at protoukray .. laughing.. Whatever the child was amusing, if only he didn’t hang himself ... let the admirals be stamped, we’re less harm ..
    1. 33 Watcher
      33 Watcher April 27 2016 05: 28
      +8
      Yeah, like Africans, a bigger cap, medals, gold on a cocktail, they’d have to enter epaulettes ... yes laughing
      1. inkass_98
        inkass_98 April 27 2016 06: 50
        +9
        Yes, in general it’s easy, only there and without an epaulette everything has long been worked out:
        1. inkass_98
          inkass_98 April 27 2016 06: 52
          +13
          And the former Interior Minister Kravchenko, who had killed himself, finally looked beautiful, any Bantustans have a rest:
          1. Atomist
            Atomist April 27 2016 09: 08
            +7
            He didn’t accidentally leave the Blue Oyster club for a smoke?
          2. sir_obs
            sir_obs April 27 2016 10: 43
            +2
            On the louboutins ...
        2. AID.S
          AID.S April 27 2016 07: 45
          +9
          Yes, these chocks gathered on a demobilization. It remains to fill heels, but comb overcoat ..
          1. Lukich
            Lukich April 27 2016 07: 59
            +6
            Quote: AID.S
            Yes, these chocks gathered on a demobilization. It remains to fill heels, but comb overcoat ..

            with my own eyes I saw a chunk of demobilization with 4 straps on each chase. removed from the train.
            1. AID.S
              AID.S April 27 2016 09: 31
              +1
              I won’t be surprised if he didn’t even understand why.
    2. vlade99
      vlade99 April 27 2016 05: 30
      +2
      Better slingshots would be built. Other innovations will not pull.
      1. Nyrobsky
        Nyrobsky April 27 2016 09: 16
        +7
        Quote: vlade99
        Better slingshots would be built. Other innovations will not pull.

        You underestimate them greatly)))
    3. Finches
      Finches April 27 2016 05: 55
      +9
      Ukraine and the Armed Forces - things are not compatible in principle! Here is Ukraine and punitive, semi-partisan units ... - yes! Ukraine and caches are the Special Operations Forces, not like the Ukrainian Navy ... laughing
      1. Alexey-74
        Alexey-74 April 27 2016 11: 23
        +1
        Some kind of anarchic half-bandit "state" with a crowd of unpredictable bandit formations (Natsiks) .... which army? which fleet? This is already from the category of anecdotes ...
    4. Lukich
      Lukich April 27 2016 06: 12
      +2
      Quote: bad
      .. well like kakly tinsel, medals

      and even more money for this tinsel
      1. Dembel77
        Dembel77 April 27 2016 06: 49
        +2
        There are entire institutions where Napoleons still live in the wards, ”the political scientist says ironically.
        I agree with Rostislav Vladimirovich, and from myself I will add - Ukraine is just the country where these patients of neuropsychiatric dispensaries, not only have they massively escaped to freedom, they also somehow managed (not without the help of the same US and EU) to infiltrate to the Ukrainian government and the Verkhovna Rada of Ukraine. And you say - the submarine fleet of Ukraine will not be built? Yes easily!
  2. Aleksander
    Aleksander April 27 2016 05: 19
    +4
    They would have everything if they remained part of Russia ....
    1. avvg
      avvg April 27 2016 06: 58
      +1
      But what is the fate of the Ukrainian surface fleet? Maybe at least there the Ukrainians have succeeded in something, not all have spent on drink. "
  3. cedar
    cedar April 27 2016 05: 24
    +1
    "Woe to the vanquished!"
  4. Knowing
    Knowing April 27 2016 05: 25
    +8
    And they had what is presented in the article ...
    1. Revolver
      Revolver April 27 2016 05: 59
      +2
      Well, are they planning to dig out the sea? Or, on the contrary, buried the existing sea back?what
    2. Lukich
      Lukich April 27 2016 06: 15
      +5
      Quote: Knowing
      And they had what is presented in the article ...

      and now there is. comment below photo ... laughing
  5. mamont5
    mamont5 April 27 2016 05: 26
    +1
    Anyone ukrohuntyut to listen, and even seriously - it does not respect yourself. Tired of ...
  6. EvgNik
    EvgNik April 27 2016 05: 29
    0
    Another zrada. We are not surprised at anything, and not even funny.
  7. lwxx
    lwxx April 27 2016 05: 30
    +2
    Well, you can relax. And then the people after the statements of Gaiduk about the revival and increase of the sub-fleet (15.04.2016/XNUMX/XNUMX) began to panic and depression.wassat
    1. Lukich
      Lukich April 27 2016 06: 20
      +3
      Quote: lwxx
      . And then the people after the statements of Gaiduk about the revival and increase of the sub-fleet (15.04.2016/XNUMX/XNUMX) began to panic and depression

      and it was from what. passed a deep modernization.
      1. The comment was deleted.
  8. izya top
    izya top April 27 2016 05: 34
    +3
    it's all armored divers who interfere, arrange sabotage recourse
    1. Lukich
      Lukich April 27 2016 06: 21
      +6
      Quote: izya top
      it's all armored divers who interfere, arrange sabotage

      they now have their own
  9. Good cat
    Good cat April 27 2016 05: 36
    +2
    Maybe then they already recognize that there are problems with the head?
    1. EvgNik
      EvgNik April 27 2016 05: 52
      +1
      Quote: Good cat
      Maybe then they already recognize that there are problems with the head?

      This is unlikely. After the jumps, they have a complete concussion of the brain substance (if someone had it). And whoever didn’t ride, you won’t envy him now.
      1. Sober
        Sober April 27 2016 10: 07
        0
        Hello, Eugene. You have pleased me:
        Quote: EvgNik
        complete concussion of the brain substance (if someone had it)

        I thought it had all leaked out.
    2. Kos_kalinki9
      Kos_kalinki9 April 27 2016 05: 55
      +2
      Maybe then they already recognize that there are problems with the head?

      In order to admit that with the head of the problem you need to have this head. But is it there, well, is that a head?
      1. forester
        forester April 27 2016 06: 19
        +3
        Quote: Kos_kalinki9
        . But is it there, well, is that a head?

        The heads are sort of like they are - but in order to have something in them)))))
        1. Kos_kalinki9
          Kos_kalinki9 April 27 2016 07: 14
          +1
          but in order to have something in them

          Sorry, forgot about this important quality
  10. Prisoner
    Prisoner April 27 2016 05: 57
    +2
    I would have decided that they had begun to understand something, but it is doubtful. It's worth a little wait. In a day or two, they can blurt out something enchanting at all, such as the "revival" of the space industry or the creation of a space fleet.
  11. silver169
    silver169 April 27 2016 06: 02
    +2
    And what is there to recognize. Everything was so clear. Kaklov has no money and never will have to buy boats abroad. Its own school of underwater shipbuilding is missing. So there is no prospect, no opportunity, no desire (at least in most Seluk).
    1. Lukich
      Lukich April 27 2016 06: 54
      0
      Quote: silver169
      Kaklov has no money and never will have to buy boats abroad. Its own school of underwater shipbuilding is missing.

      plus to this, at least one crew is completely absent. I am silent about captains
  12. The comment was deleted.
  13. Evgeniy667b
    Evgeniy667b April 27 2016 06: 04
    +2
    In vain you laugh, separate submarines are being built in Odessa garages, approximately like two welded 200-liter barrels. They can mobilize them for help, and then the ukroadmirals will make a rustle in the Black Sea, they will put everyone on their ears !!!
  14. Neophyte
    Neophyte April 27 2016 06: 11
    +2
    Svidomo was in vain kneeling and singing with tears in his eyes when Haiduk promised
    revive the submarine fleet of Ukraine!
  15. Kos_kalinki9
    Kos_kalinki9 April 27 2016 06: 19
    +3
    Submarine fleet, he is such a submarine fleet
    Submarine in the steppes of Ukraine
    Goes under water and can not help her
    No one will come to take us off the ice
    And it’s unlikely we can live this night
    crying
  16. Arkan
    Arkan April 27 2016 06: 42
    +4
    - Oh, Van, look what clowns!
    Mouth - at least the strings attached ...
    Oh, what, Wan, are painted out,
    And the voice is like y drunks!

    V.S. Vysotsky.
    1. Kos_kalinki9
      Kos_kalinki9 April 27 2016 07: 16
      0
      like y drunks!

      Why how? It’s even a shame.
  17. Pinkie F.
    Pinkie F. April 27 2016 06: 58
    0
    The Minister of Defense of Ukraine Stepan Poltorak said that his country has to abandon plans to create an underwater fleet.

    a wise decision. Even Equatorial Guinea, which Ukraine is about to reach, has no submarine fleet! In general, the Xoxlams need to take an example from the Somali Navy - they just rent boats for patrolling.
  18. Mountain shooter
    Mountain shooter April 27 2016 07: 09
    0
    Ah yes Maidania! Yes, really, reality began to seep through alcohol intoxication? So, you see, in about five years they will discover that the Russian army has never been in the Donbass and it is IMPOSSIBLE to withdraw it.
  19. rotmistr60
    rotmistr60 April 27 2016 07: 17
    0
    Ukraine admitted defeat on the underwater front

    And in the near future it will be forced to admit defeat on other fronts, economic, political and military.
  20. sounddoc
    sounddoc April 27 2016 07: 30
    +3
    Oh, do not care about the cotton Navy! But we have a super-duper underwater special forces, such swiborgs themselves, which can strike at the Russian Black Sea Fleet !!!! U-and-and-and -! ... ugh, heroes to swim !!!!!
  21. Monster_Fat
    Monster_Fat April 27 2016 07: 40
    -2
    In fact, it is quite possible for the Ukrainians to create a submarine fleet, even with scarce resources, in a couple of years it is quite possible to build a new and repair the old infrastructure for basing and supplying submarines, during this time it is possible to "cheaply" buy used boats from North Korea and China and at the same time, at the very least, train crews for them. Yes, these will not be modern forces, but they will be, and then only develop them. BUT-do Ukrainians need it? Wash your tongue, yes it is for them. But to spend money on something other than yourself and your family is "not in high esteem" among Ukrainians ... so that all these "pink" dreams of a mighty submarine fleet for Ukraine will remain dreams, like everything else, with regard to building a "strong" state of Ukraine. The "small-town" thinking of Ukrainians, which is characteristic of them and inherent in them as a species, does not allow them to think about something more general than "their own hut" and rests against this and this is where all their dreams of "all-power" and "grandeur" end ...
    1. Ros 56
      Ros 56 April 27 2016 08: 04
      +1
      Quote: Monster_Fat
      In fact, creating a submarine fleet for Ukrainians is quite possible


      Naturally, and you will be the main adviser for the revival of the submarine fleet. Enough already probably carry any crap. At this rate, they will soon enter the primitive communal system, what fleet, what are you talking about.
  22. Proud.
    Proud. April 27 2016 08: 24
    0
    "... Ukrainian Defense Minister Stepan Poltorak said that his country will have to abandon plans to create a submarine fleet." Today we cannot count on submarines, "he said, answering a relevant question in an interview with the Ukrainian Channel 5. .. "- Enchanting nonsense! You cannot count on what is not.
  23. Zomanus
    Zomanus April 27 2016 08: 47
    0
    The maximum that Ukraine can contain as a fleet-flotilla of boats, such as our RTOs.
    And then, without rockets, only with machine guns.
    The very thing that would be on rivers, but coastal waters.
  24. Evil 55
    Evil 55 April 27 2016 08: 52
    0
    Perhaps the American .. Americans, in the same way as they filled up the whole Geyropa with air clutter, wanted to give UKRALina several units of their "underwater trash" ..
  25. rus-5819
    rus-5819 April 27 2016 08: 52
    +1
    In January, he announced that Ukraine would not only revive the submarine fleet, but also increase it. “Our plans provide for the revival of submarine forces consisting of two to four submarines by 2020. “It can be ultra-small, small or even medium-sized submarines, including on a rental basis.”

    On April 15, Sergei Gaiduk was dismissed from his post by order of the country's president Petro Poroshenko.


    "You are making unrealistic plans! This one is like his .. voluntarism!" (film "Prisoner of the Caucasus")
    1. oldzek
      oldzek April 27 2016 13: 59
      +1
      I ask you not to express yourself on this site!
  26. sgr291158
    sgr291158 April 27 2016 09: 05
    +1
    And so it will be everywhere. There are no and never will be submarines, the army is just rabble, there is no aviation, they have nothing. They are starving.
    1. Ros 56
      Ros 56 April 27 2016 16: 49
      +1
      Quote: sgr291158
      They are starving.


      It’s not quite yet, from May 1, they will set market prices for gas, there’s going to be zrada, and the rabbit is already in the states, before they could stick a bullet in his forehead.
  27. AdekvatNICK
    AdekvatNICK April 27 2016 09: 31
    +1
    An endless circle. A new manager is appointed who starts by making impossible and even fantastic promises. Then he doesn’t justify them and calmly leaves and the next one comes up with even more fantastic plans. Such leapfrog keeps people in constant hope. This is a classic trick. in politics. And time goes on and on and the rusty cart Ukraine rolls and rolls. And nothing happens in the country to improve the life of an ordinary Ukrainian. Well, if you suddenly rebelled and something woke up in a Ukrainian, then plan B is already working, they immediately distract you with evil Russians, saboteurs, and even help to let off steam to burn a couple of tires from the title are glad and again all over again .... do not be distracted dill, why do you need a social program, look at the Russians the rocket did not take off ... look at the Crimea without light ... ahaaa ... you don’t get distracted ... and there’s nothing that you don’t have a pension .. forget ... look, the United States extended the Russian sanctions ... don’t worry, so the prices go up ... better look at their meldonium ahaaa .... demolish monuments are not we wines the ovates are that you and your country are now a ruin there they are .... those who have been exploiting you all their life .... well, what an empty refrigerator. But glory to Ukraine ... now we will demolish all the monuments and rename the street and immediately the fleet self-restraint and our tanks are already superior armature ... we dug up the Black Sea ... we ... we. we .... we ... mu .... mu.muuuuuuu
  28. drags33
    drags33 April 27 2016 10: 12
    +1
    In recent years, thinking ukro- "leaders" has moved to a primitive children's level. Real statesmen cannot think at the level of a three-year-old child ("Mom, I want this car!"). This suggests that the state "Ukraine" did not take place as an independent country and, apparently, will never take place.
  29. nivander
    nivander April 27 2016 10: 25
    +1
    To buy a used project U209 and to train a crew for it is not such an insoluble problem for a year. Panama, Morocco, Benin completely coped with it. Moreover, many retired and still not old submariners remained in Ukraine, including officers of all specialties (flesh to submarine commanders) not to mention sailors and foremen. The reality is that the state itself simply refuses this type of armed force because of its stupidity
  30. Thomas I do not believe40
    Thomas I do not believe40 April 27 2016 14: 29
    0
    Advice Khokhlov set yourself big goals, it is easier to get into them.
    Give an aircraft carrier, keep Ukrainians like that. good
  31. 4ekist
    4ekist April 27 2016 17: 26
    0
    And who needs this recognition of Stepan Poltorak. Did he say something new or open his eyes to someone? Ukrainians have become like psekki, nostrils are inflated, more ambition and stupid agility. Nudge ... m submarine fleet is not needed.