Military Review

The reasons and probability of "restart" of production F-22A. Forecasted Raptor Deployment Sites

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A complete shutdown of the Lockheed Martin production line for the serial production of the 5th generation F-22A Raptor multi-purpose stealth fighter aircraft in 2008 was a real strategic failure for both the US Department of Defense and Washington as a whole. The decision to halt production significantly limited the individual capabilities of the US Air Force, as well as NATO Allied Forces in achieving "total" air superiority in the most important conditional theaters of operations of the North Atlantic Alliance - the European and Far Eastern, as well as in the sky of Southeast Asia. The insufficient number of Raptors produced (187 vehicles) does not allow the US Air Force to distribute numerous air regiments of these fighters in Asia Minor, Asia-Pacific and Europe, since the airspace of the entire North American continent will lose protection aviation 5th generation air defense. Despite the fact that the US Air Force is armed with hundreds and thousands of F-15C / E, F-16C of the latest modifications, Washington knows that this fleet will not be able to oppose the enemy with what the Raptors are much more interested in. So the US House of Representatives started talking about restarting the production of these aircraft.

From mid-April 2016, the Congress Subcommittee on Armed Forces raised the issue of the cost of re-launching the production branch of the F-22A, and also made it possible to create an export version of the 5 generation fighter. The ability to export these cars was thrown back by the ban, which entered into 1998, to prevent the “leakage” of secret technologies to the enemy. But in the XXI century, when our engineering thought caught up, and even began to outpace the vaunted F-22A in terms of airborne radar tools, EW complexes, maneuverability, range (especially expressed in T-50 PAK-FA, Su-35С), the question of export again began to have a certain value. The importance of increasing the number of "Raptors" in the Air Force was repeatedly reminded by the head of the US Air Force General Michael Mosley, who, after the decision to stop the series, resigned in protest.

According to statements by the RAND research center, citing a representative of the Air Force, the restoration of the Raptors issue will cost the American treasury a pretty penny: 2 billion is needed only to restore all elements of production, plus 17,5 billion will be needed to produce new 75 machines. The fact is that the higher price (233 million dollars per unit) will be due not only to the current economic situation, but also the need to introduce improved avionics into new fighters. It is reported that the integration of the new element base will be made at the expense of the hardware and software of the F-35A fighters, which will allow the F-22A, in addition to the powerful AN / APG-77 radar among American fighters, to get the corresponding network-centric capabilities concerning tactical exchange speed information with other types of fighters, surface ships, DRLO airplanes, air defense missile systems, etc.

A very important fact is that of the 185 currently available F-22A, 149 belong to the Block 30 / 35 modification. A feature of this version is a software add-on that allows you to use synthetic aperture mapping mode of the terrain, which allows you to receive a radar image of photographic resolution. This made it possible to align with the F-35A in terms of air-to-ground and air-to-sea operations. Smaller than the F-35A radar signature (EPR 0,07 м2 against 0,3 м2) will allow you to operate over areas with thicker air defense and in the LPI mode closer to enemy fighters, I do not identify the type of own side.

The likelihood that by 2020, the Raptors will once again go into mass production remains high enough, since the cumulative implementation rates of the 5 T-50, J-20 and J-31 fighter projects will eventually outrun the fighter-program of dubious quality JSF and the Americans will lose any opportunity to confront Russia and China in Europe and the Asia-Pacific region.

As for the states to which simplified versions of the F-22A can be handed over, as well as the regions where improved American cars will be deployed, they will remain the same, but with some amendments.

In a more or less peaceful environment, the largest number of F-22A fighters will be based on air bases in Japan, Saudi Arabia and Western Europe (Great Britain and Germany). If a military conflict breaks out in this or that theater, the Raptor bases will try to push allies into the strategic depth so as not to lose their promising F-22A over the theater controlled area: the US Air Force will continue to observe the secrecy of the technology of the new fighter units, radar design AN / APG-77. Australia will undoubtedly become such a remote base in Australia, where already today the Americans are building the largest militarized stronghold against the Celestial Empire, preparing the transfer of the KC-10A “Extender” air tankers and the B-1B strategic bomber-bomber. It is also likely that the F-22A will be sold to the Australian Air Force, which will be able to reach out to any part of the Indo-Asia-Pacific region with the help of Extenders.

“In the event of a conflict, the European Raptors can be relocated exclusively to the UK or even further to the Icelandic Keflavik airbase.

If the escalation level of tension hangs over the whole of Front Asia, American fighters can be stationed in Pakistan or on the island, Diego Garcia, a military base in the Indian Ocean. But neither of these options is convenient enough. Accommodation in Pakistan is not completely secure, especially in view of the latter’s many years of territorial dispute with India. Diego Garcia is located more than 4000 km from the Middle East, which requires a long time to move the F-22A squadrons involved in the air operation. But the latter option looks more attractive.

The possibility of continuing the series of the best American fighters cannot be ignored in any way, just like leaving their further deployment in the future.
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  1. Aaron Zawi
    Aaron Zawi April 27 2016 05: 51
    +6
    Great review. Respect to the author.
    1. The comment was deleted.
    2. godofwar6699
      godofwar6699 April 27 2016 09: 10
      +3
      I think Israel will be one of the first customers good
      1. 0255
        0255 April 27 2016 10: 18
        +3
        Quote: godofwar6699
        I think Israel will be one of the first customers good

        Yeah, Jews like to complain that they were not given the Raptors laughing
      2. opus
        opus April 27 2016 21: 00
        +3
        Quote: godofwar6699
        I think Israel will be one of the first customers

        Will Israel's budget pull?
        1. Lt. Air Force stock
          Lt. Air Force stock April 27 2016 23: 30
          +2
          Quote: opus
          Will Israel's budget pull?

          Why pull? The United States annually provides $ 3 billion in free material assistance to Israel, enough to buy 20 F-22s at a unit price of $ 150 million.
    3. Portolan
      Portolan April 27 2016 10: 58
      +1
      the squad team rubs the plane, like a male su_chku for billions of thaleroff.
      1. Lens
        Lens April 28 2016 22: 10
        0
        Laiborghini and Ferrari are also manually polished, and what, are they worse than the Cossacks?
      2. Idiot
        Idiot 1 May 2016 09: 44
        +1
        As I understand it, these are not grouts, but painters - they apply a new layer of super-invisible paint.
      3. Idiot
        Idiot 1 May 2016 09: 44
        -1
        As I understand it, these are not grouts, but painters - they apply a new layer of super-invisible paint.
    4. iwind
      iwind April 27 2016 14: 40
      +6
      Quote: Aaron Zawi
      Great review. Respect to the author.

      Yes, it’s not very ...
      This made it possible to align with the F-35A in terms of air-ground and air-sea operations.

      So as soon as the F-22 can carry something the largest 453kg bombs, and can use anti-ship missiles NSM (or any other anti-ship missiles), JSOOW, AGM-158 JASSM, 2000lb GBU, the list goes on. Then it will be possible to talk about equal opportunities.
      F-22 and F-35 have different capabilities. One has an advantage in the B-B of the other B-W. Why did they begin to compare and push their foreheads ...
    5. kugelblitz
      kugelblitz April 27 2016 19: 35
      +1
      Better Israel would buy Rafal. wassat

  2. Zfoni
    Zfoni April 27 2016 05: 54
    -20%
    It would be very nice for our Air Force to get into service with the F-22, and even with our avionics ... but I think the Americans will not begin to restore the production of the F-22. Americans came to the conclusion that over-timelessness is an excessive and unnecessary quality in 5th generation fighters in the era of all-round explosive missiles. And they seem to be right ...
    1. activator
      activator April 27 2016 06: 58
      +45
      Quote: Zfoni
      It would be very nice for our Air Force to get into service with the F-22, and even with our avionics ... but I think the Americans will not begin to restore the production of the F-22. Americans came to the conclusion that over-timelessness is an excessive and unnecessary quality in 5th generation fighters in the era of all-round explosive missiles. And they seem to be right ...

      All right, over-maneuverability is superfluous and I will tell you a secret that as one of the options for a 6th generation fighter, Americans are considering tethered airships. yes Because neither speed nor even maneuverability in the presence of multi-angle missiles is needed at all. In general, do not be so afraid of you about f22, be patient a bit and Israel will become the proud owner of the 6th generation airships, and even put your bags in a corner on the gondola no need to pull out. good
      1. Come on
        Come on April 27 2016 13: 50
        -7
        You might think the F-35 has poor maneuverability. Straight brick clumsy. Only pilots say that maneuverability is superior to the F-16. Yes, and the video in the public domain is full, where you can see more than enough maneuverability of an aircraft that is poorly distinguishable for radars and has all-round explosives.
        1. kugelblitz
          kugelblitz April 27 2016 19: 37
          +3
          Pilots on the overloaded UTI F-16 just raped the Penguin, oddly enough. wassat
          1. Come on
            Come on April 28 2016 02: 56
            +1
            This was said by an anonymous retired pilot, as far as I understood, who was allegedly at the base and knows the results of the maneuvers. And he said this to the blogger who published this "sensation". About overloaded, can you share the source? And the fact that the F-16 is a nimble car at a very high level, and even if it bypassed the F-35, it is still silly to call it a brick. Moreover, in a real battle, the F-16 would not have approached the Lightning at a dogfight distance.
            1. kugelblitz
              kugelblitz April 28 2016 10: 52
              -2
              In general, the Penguin also has an engine of a different level, but in theory it should fly better. F-16 then of course the maneuverability of the western fighters is definitely on the podium, but there are clearly also miscalculations in aerodynamics, and the weight is clearly not cake.
            2. Hurray
              Hurray April 30 2016 21: 40
              0
              A single f16 certainly will not work, but 20 or more pieces, then this is another question.
    2. inkass_98
      inkass_98 April 27 2016 07: 06
      +8
      My dear man, somehow your flag is changing day by day - either Georgian, or Israeli-Israeli.
      And on the topic of all-perspective explosives, are there many of them currently in service? The battle will show, as they say, that it is better - over-maneuverability + low visibility or only low visibility.
      1. inkass_98
        inkass_98 April 27 2016 07: 35
        +7
        Well and to the heap: http://topwar.ru/94562-makkeyn-obrushilsya-s-kritikoy-na-razrabotchikov-f-35-naz
        vav-situaciyu-s-postavkoy-samoletov-v-vvs-ssha-tragediey.html
        MakKeyushka turned out to be a zradnik, an old galosha, flightless. Bullshit, says your F-35, and solid advertising. Here is an adder, right?
      2. Zfoni
        Zfoni April 27 2016 07: 50
        0
        And you’ll be brainwashed ... well, if you are at a loss, I’ll explain: we had Easter holidays, we travel around our beloved Caucasus, we were in Georgia, now we have moved to Baku, so do not be surprised at the Azerbaijani flag
      3. AdekvatNICK
        AdekvatNICK April 27 2016 10: 57
        +5
        the flag can change even when using a program that changes the IP address. Installed to bypass resource blocking by the provider. (for example censor) hence the change of flag.
    3. Amnestied
      Amnestied April 27 2016 08: 24
      +5
      Quote: Zfoni
      It would be very nice for our Air Force to get into service with the F-22, and even with our avionics ... but I think the Americans will not begin to restore the production of the F-22. Americans came to the conclusion that over-timelessness is an excessive and unnecessary quality in 5th generation fighters in the era of all-round explosive missiles. And they seem to be right ...

      In how the Jews sang, and in the past, Professor and Co. promoted fu35. F-35 is a complete failure and peeling, the strength of this raised the question of restoring production of the F-22, but can they restore it, is that the question? Gee-s))))
      1. Zfoni
        Zfoni April 27 2016 08: 33
        -6
        I do not refuse professorship. The F-35 is a wonderful machine, but it is not a heavy fighter. The ratio of F-22 to F-35 should be 1 to 4 (about the same as the ratio between F-15 to F-16)
        1. Amnestied
          Amnestied April 27 2016 08: 42
          +5
          Quote: Zfoni
          I do not refuse professorship. The F-35 is a wonderful machine, but it is not a heavy fighter.

          And McCain thinks differently)))
          http://topwar.ru/94562-makkeyn-obrushilsya-s-kritikoy-na-razrabotchikov-f-35-naz
          vav-situaciyu-s-postavkoy-samoletov-v-vvs-ssha-tragediey.html
          1. godofwar6699
            godofwar6699 April 27 2016 09: 26
            -1
            Quote: Amnestied
            Quote: Zfoni
            I do not refuse professorship. The F-35 is a wonderful machine, but it is not a heavy fighter.

            And McCain thinks differently)))
            http://topwar.ru/94562-makkeyn-obrushilsya-s-kritikoy-na-razrabotchikov-f-35-naz

            vav-situaciyu-s-postavkoy-samoletov-v-vvs-ssha-tragediey.html

            he is not a weapons specialist
            1. Amnestied
              Amnestied April 27 2016 14: 11
              +2
              Quote: godofwar6699
              he is not a weapons specialist

              Oh, and gnomek with tsifiryaki still onoliteg laughing
            2. kugelblitz
              kugelblitz April 27 2016 19: 39
              +1
              McCain was a former combat pilot and was shot down in Vietnam. And he was captured, by the way, that's why he is an ardent Russophobe, although he was actually saved from death there. wassat
          2. Zfoni
            Zfoni April 27 2016 09: 29
            -2
            You read what you wrote in the early and mid 70s about the F-16. That's where they did not skimp on devastating criticism. But there has never been any criticism about Soviet and Russian cars. Apparently, everything is perfect for them.
            1. yehat
              yehat April 27 2016 11: 19
              +5
              in the 70s, Soviet cars were also little known, modifications quickly came out that dramatically increased combat effectiveness, so NATO had to discuss its technology.
              Now, after a gigantic outflow of information from the former USSR, the Americans quite clearly present the capabilities of all elements of our aircraft. Therefore, they can afford their assessment.
          3. Come on
            Come on April 27 2016 13: 55
            -4
            Mac Kane does not have to be right, especially devoted to all the nuances of the development of the F-35 and its implementation. But the mere fact of only his grunts is beneficial and makes Americans pay more attention to taxpayers as well as to the developers. This is always better than when everyone in one choir sings meritorious songs, and critics are either not heard, or they are recorded as traitors.
            1. rubidiy
              rubidiy April 29 2016 21: 07
              0
              Yeah. A senator who cares about the welfare of the people ... laughing laughing
              The lobby there is one company against another, nothing more. Who won the tender, that and slippers. Wunderwaffles are promised for three cents, and then it turns out that everything costs three times more expensive, and flies twice as bad. But this does not bother anyone anymore ... although no, it bothers just those who lost the tender. The closure of the program F22 is only once again confirmed. Suddenly, everyone was preoccupied with the high cost of the project, attacked with criticism (which even then sounded doubtful) and quickly closed the program. Then they took on the F35, which was supposed to become a universal platform and at the same time cost two times cheaper than the F22. As a result, the 35th costs the same, the technical task does not correspond, and the initial message of the universal platform turned the cost of designing into an astronomical one. I'm not saying that the F35 is brick and bullshit, but the fact that this plane only lost in LTH, but costs the same, is a fact. Against this background, the resumption of production of the already developed and tested F22 may be logical.
        2. otter.1
          otter.1 April 27 2016 10: 32
          +11
          On paper, of course ...
          I can’t understand everything, how people really call an unfinished board "EXCELLENT"
          Well, it looks something like this-We (the Russians understand) made a new board of PAK FA T-250- the speed is 18 thousand sweeps, the height to Jupiter is easy, well, about avionics it’s completely silent, there are no analogues even in other galaxies, well it sweats a little, it rusts a little , Yes, the pilot's weight should not exceed 32 kg ... just about to bring everyone an ass.
    4. Forget
      Forget April 27 2016 08: 39
      0
      Quote: Zfoni
      in the era of all-round explosive rockets

      Well, you said, the nozzle can be all-round, but not a rocket.
      1. Zfoni
        Zfoni April 27 2016 09: 10
        +5
        Well it can’t in Russia. Look at your leisure materials on Python 5, an all-round melee rocket. And its maneuverability is much greater than any super-maneuverable fighter, which man is sitting at the helm of, and this in itself is a serious limitation on overload ...
        1. Forget
          Forget April 27 2016 09: 50
          +1
          Quote: Zfoni
          ..

          I'm talking about the use of the word "all-aspect", not about the characteristics of the rocket
        2. Corsair
          Corsair April 27 2016 10: 10
          +5
          what A powerful air defense system eliminates all these inconspicuities and the presence of various lotions, so the next plane (generation) will be even faster, cooler and more expensive, while these will be some kind of pontorez tools (as well as now), if you understand what I'm writing about.
          Various banana republics and countries with no / outdated air defense will be a training ground, and where the country has good air defense - all kinds of AUG and bases with aircraft - stupidly bluff - "This is what we have, and you?", And each side understands that in the case of a large kipesh, no one will particularly bet on them. In the event of a non-nuclear war, aircraft that are difficult to manufacture will run out in the first month or two, then they will rivet the old proven and quick-assembled ones on the assembly line, or simplify to the maximum. All sorts of fairy tales like one raptor will bring down 5 dryers at a time - these are just fairy tales. In the event of a war with China, teapots can fill up with stupid numbers - even if not very modern aircraft, well, air defense systems - they are also developing.
          1. yehat
            yehat April 27 2016 11: 29
            +4
            the essence of invisibility is not to nullify the air defense, but to maximize the delay in the reaction of this air defense itself. If the b-52 you notice quickly 300 km from the target, then a well-hidden stealth will light up already at 40-70 and this sharply increases its danger.
            And given that the reaction to the interception is not instantaneous, he will still have time to do something and thanks to the development of passive sensors, he will know when he is in danger. All this creates the prerequisites for an offensive air war, which is so loved in the United States.
            1. Corsair
              Corsair April 27 2016 13: 40
              +1
              Quote: yehat
              The goal of stealth is not to nullify the air defense, but to maximize the delay in the reaction of this air defense itself. If the b-52 you notice quickly 300 km from the target, then a well-hidden stealth will light up already at 40-70 and this sharply increases its danger.

              fellow I wrote about modern air defense systems, which includes a target detection system, a ground-based target detection system is usually much more powerful and long-range, installed on airplanes, I suggest that low-flying aircraft can also be detected quietly by creating a network similar to a cellular network with optoelectronic surveillance system.
              1. yehat
                yehat April 28 2016 09: 56
                +1
                but where in the world there is such a dense air defense system ???
                they build more or less stable for many years at the borders, but basically, the entire air defense in the area comes down to a pair of tactical locators and 1-3 missile batteries + short-range air defense like MANPADS or barreled artillery.
                Or do you think that they bombed where dozens of interceptors barrage, the AWACS aircraft and Moscow’s air defense cost ???
                Take, for example, Tokyo's air defense - these are 4 divisions of patriots, 2 airfields with fighter jets and ships in the roads + a bunch of tracking stations and ship radars and patrols. It is more or less stable. And if to the side by 500 km - there is no one there at all. NO ONE!
                to the same Fukushima, Americans on F22 can fly up to the distance of the strike altogether unnoticed.
            2. Come on
              Come on April 27 2016 14: 18
              -3
              Everything is correct. The maximum capture range of long-range Russian air defense systems is high, but this calculation is specifically for targets with EPRs of many m2, that is, B-52, Galaxy 5, etc., target capture with EPRs of 3-7 m2, i.e. generation 4, is already significantly lower. But you don’t even need to fly up to F-40 or F-22 at 35 km, because the maximum effective range of their missiles, or air-ground planning bombs, is far beyond 100 km.
              1. Corsair
                Corsair April 28 2016 09: 27
                0
                Quote: Yeah, well.
                The maximum capture range of long-range Russian air defense systems is high, but this calculation is specifically for targets with EPRs of many m2, that is, B-52, Galaxy 5, etc., target capture with EPRs of 3-7 m2, i.e. generation 4, is already significantly lower. But you don’t even need to fly up to F-40 or F-22 at 35 km, because the maximum effective range of their missiles, or air-ground planning bombs, is far beyond 100 km.

                what all these tales about EPR and the fact that modern air defense radars see only large objects, they see small ones, just small targets are not taken into account as interference, the corresponding tuning and computer forecasting / analysis of small targets quickly recognizes a moving flying object, and minimum course shifts, altitude changes will cause an increase in this ESR.
                1. Come on
                  Come on April 28 2016 20: 33
                  +2
                  Telling tales about EPR? So, in the Sukhoi Design Bureau, fools are sitting and throwing money away? Well, they would only invest in the Su-35. What "modern radars" are you talking about? "The computer will calculate"? When creating their stealth, Americans have the ability to simulate any purity and power of all kinds of radars. But in order to create a radar for earlier detection of stealth, until it flies to the maximum launch distance of its missiles, etc., you need to know the parameters of certain types of aircraft so that the system can distinguish it from the same bird and you will probably have to increase the power of the radar, which in in turn makes her herself more vulnerable. Are there radars created in Russia that are dangerous for stealth, and even more so, is there enough of them on duty in the RF Armed Forces? If you believe the experienced air defense specialists, and not the dilettante theorists, then stealth technologies pose a great danger to the country, dear.
            3. avdkrd
              avdkrd April 27 2016 23: 56
              +5
              Quote: yehat
              the essence of invisibility is not to nullify the air defense, but to maximize the delay in the reaction of this air defense itself. If the b-52 you notice quickly 300 km from the target, then a well-hidden stealth will light up already at 40-70 and this sharply increases its danger.
              And given that the reaction to the interception is not instantaneous, he will still have time to do something and thanks to the development of passive sensors, he will know when he is in danger. All this creates the prerequisites for an offensive air war, which is so loved in the United States.

              The B-52 can be seen during its take-off, as for the (well-hidden) stealth, this is a very controversial issue. What should he take cover well? F22 has its own radar and at the time of its operation it becomes completely non-stealth, the F35 should be induced by AWACS, which in principle is vulnerable to powerful air defense systems (for example, C400). Again, 40-70 km is the stealth detection range of a fighter radar, which is limited in its capabilities compared to ground-based systems. Listening to the arguments of Amer’s experts about the need for unconscious adoption or the production of another child prodigy, it should be borne in mind that their engagement with arms concerns is the norm rather than the exception. At one time, the Americans had already relied on SD and powerful on-board electronics to the detriment of maneuverability by adopting the Phantom. The concept did not materialize itself and instantly vomited it in Vietnam, and given the cost of the Phantom in relation to the MiG, the analogy of Raptor and Penguin with respect to Sushka immediately suggests itself. Both Americans are insanely expensive both on their own and in operation. Both have serious design restrictions on the nomenclature of weapons in the internal compartments - with an external sling, they generally have no right to exist. Replenishment of losses (in the event of a major war) cannot be increased at the level of aircraft of the previous generation. It is not known how these planes will behave in the face of real opposition (electronic warfare, Russian level air defense, Su-21 level fighters).
              In general, I will be glad if the mattresses, instead of creating a new aircraft, continue to cut the budget by restoring production of F22 and "bringing" F35. According to their minds, they would modify f16 with new ones from f35, but this is completely different money and Lockheed will lobby for his offspring.
              1. yehat
                yehat April 28 2016 10: 02
                +1
                You don’t understand a bit what the goals of F22 and F35 are. First of all, these are stationary targets or especially valuable ones like AWACS aircraft. They already know all this where it is.
                Air defense tasks are mainly according to data from other sources, or careful probing by the radar in a defensive manner. These planes go to raids regularly with active systems turned off. Thus, they are not a full-fledged force, but only an auxiliary one.
                1. Operator
                  Operator April 28 2016 10: 41
                  +1
                  The use of F-22 (after modernization) and F-35 in stealth mode with the location of the combat load on the internal suspension on stationary ground targets at first glance seems like a reasonable solution.

                  But there are two BUT:
                  - targets should be small and unprotected, such as radar antennas, since the caliber of missiles and bombs placed in the internal compartments of stealth is extremely small;
                  - strike missions are possible only in the case of external radar tracking from the aircraft of the AWACS, otherwise stealth (flying with silent mode with the radars turned off) has a great chance of running into enemy fighters guided by ground-based meter radars (stealth detection range is twice as long as in the centimeter range).

                  AWACS aircraft are low-maneuverable and very noticeable in the radio range. Ultra-long-range (400+ km) air-to-air missiles of the KS-172 type, developed on the basis of the S-300 anti-aircraft missile, or its possible successor, which can be based on the S-400 anti-aircraft missile, will be successfully used against them.

                  Therefore, shock missions in stealth mode are possible, but only for a limited set of targets and in the absence of opposition to the operation of the AWACS aircraft.
          2. goose
            goose April 27 2016 12: 09
            +1
            Why is stealth becoming unnecessary? Yes, because the MiG-17 at an altitude of not more than 300 m is detected from the board of the Raptor at a distance of no more than 30-40 km, and this is in ideal conditions when it is at an altitude of at least 1,5 km. If the raptor itself crawls with its belly on the ground, then the MiG-17 and the Raptor will find each other at the same time, at the capture range of the TGSN. The question is, what is an airplane 100 times more expensive than the MiG-17?
            There was already a precedent with the Serbian Colonel, who at the end of the NATO operation in Serbia flew the MiG-29 in conditions of complete air superiority, with NATO planes swarming in the air. At the same time, he managed to shoot down 2 planes and practically did not show up until his task was completed. Well, yes, there are mountains in Serbia. And where are they not? in the desert and over the ocean.
            Already, NATO is aware that the F-15E, which is equipped for long flights at low altitudes, is several times better than the F-35 in terms of efficiency. And the Su-24M on a combat course is still a target that is not very vulnerable to air defense and aviation.
            1. Odysseus
              Odysseus April 27 2016 12: 54
              0
              Quote: goose
              The question is, what is an airplane 100 times more expensive than the MiG-17?

              I will give your top-secret information to the headquarters of the DPRK Air Force. Here the guys are happy, they can fill up the Raptor! And Kim Jong-un will make a sensational statement - Mig-17 is not worse than the Raptor !! This will be trolling laughing
              Quote: goose
              . At the same time, he managed to shoot down 2 planes and practically did not show up until his task was completed.

              Why 2? Write ten, which is why their adversaries feel sorry!
              PS But seriously, you need to eat.
              1. yehat
                yehat April 28 2016 10: 08
                +2
                in North Korea, the situation with professionalism in the army is sad.
                if in infantry even more or less, then in artillery, tanks and aviation, tin
                Even if you arm them with the most modern weapons, I doubt that they will be able to conduct equal air battles not only against the United States, but also against, say, the same Serbs or Hungarians. Therefore, leave North Korea alone.
                It is better to consider typical and probable examples - for example, Indians with a fleet of cars 4+
                or Saudis with cars of 4 ++ generations or Syrians with cars of 3-4 generations.
                1. Odysseus
                  Odysseus April 28 2016 19: 14
                  0
                  Quote: yehat
                  in North Korea, the situation with professionalism in the army is sad.
                  if in infantry even more or less, then in artillery, tanks and aviation, tin

                  And here is professionalism in North Korea, dear yehat? You read the initial message goose, he writes specifically about Mig-17 there. The only country (except for African ones) where Mig-17 is still in service is DPRK. Therefore, I can’t leave the DPRK alone, more to write in this context not about anyone.
                  And most importantly, look at what wild nonsense goose writes - "then the MiG-17 and the Raptor will detect each other at the same time, at the TGSN capture range"
                  From this it follows that he knows about Mig-17 as much as I do about the dresses of the English queen. In emphasizing this is the meaning of my irony.
                  PS The level of training of the DPRK military (by the way, is very high with outdated equipment) or your modeling with the Indians are separate issues requiring discussion.
              2. AID.S
                AID.S April 28 2016 18: 47
                0
                Quote: Odyssey
                I will give your top-secret information to the headquarters of the DPRK Air Force

                This is how Korean spies scorch.
                1. Odysseus
                  Odysseus April 28 2016 19: 15
                  +2
                  Quote: AID.S
                  This is how Korean spies scorch.

                  Juche's ideas are true! smile
          3. Come on
            Come on April 27 2016 14: 12
            +2
            And what is the bulk of the long-range air defense / missile defense of the Russian Federation, its year of manufacture, characteristics, as limitations on capture speed at critical distances? Do you think the whole of the Russian Federation is strewn with S-400, S-500, brought up to modern S-300 standards? And in order to have a network, at least in a western direction, around the most important cities and bases, in addition to astronomical sums, how many years does industry need to rivet something, do you need to number of radars, missiles, and carry out modernization of outdated systems? We must remain realistic and take into account all the factors and capabilities of the enemy, which imply not only the F-22, F-35 programs, their number, but also the same B2, planning bombs, cruise missile salvos on radar, saboteurs, but you never know. Just NATO will have more numbers than China will have, and also quality.
        3. dali
          dali April 27 2016 10: 43
          +2
          Quote: Zfoni
          Well it can’t in Russia. Look at your leisure materials on Python 5, an all-round melee rocket. And its maneuverability is much greater than any super-maneuverable fighter, which man is sitting at the helm of, and this in itself is a serious limitation on overload ...

          But who against it, make F35 clones or buy ... although you should give mattresses like that ... well, take it and use it, and then it will be seen that Python 5 will greatly help you or not ...
        4. The comment was deleted.
        5. yehat
          yehat April 27 2016 11: 25
          +2
          better see the statistics on missile launches AA.
          I especially recommend statistics from Vietnam.
          Whatever the rocket, it has a lot of opportunities not to hit or to hit in such a way
          that the plane has a drum. Some traps are worth it.
          Secondly, all foreshortening missiles are melee missiles. I still have medium and long distances.
          Thirdly, the rocket still needs to be launched, and that’s why maneuverability is needed to turn it on as quickly as possible to launch the missiles (and not to compete with the missile, which is 4-7 times faster and has no restrictions on overload during maneuver) or just as quickly escape from the enemy’s maneuver.
          1. Odysseus
            Odysseus April 27 2016 12: 59
            0
            Quote: yehat
            better see the statistics on missile launches AA.
            I especially recommend statistics from Vietnam.

            In fairness, the statistics on Vietnam is not an indicator, Vietnam is an ancient archaic.
            The missiles are really rapidly improving and dodging or disrupting the seizure is becoming increasingly difficult.
          2. Come on
            Come on April 27 2016 14: 48
            0
            Quote: yehat
            Thirdly, the rocket still needs to be launched and that is why super-maneuverability is needed - as quickly as possible to rotate to launch missiles


            That's exactly what the F-35 doesn’t have to do. He does not need to turn himself on the target, even if the enemy flies behind, this is done by the rocket itself.

            Quote: yehat
            Secondly, all foreshortening missiles are melee missiles. I still have medium and long distances.


            You do not confuse the concepts of all-perspective (starting from any position) and highly maneuverable (lateral control nozzles)?
            1. yehat
              yehat April 28 2016 10: 20
              +1
              Quote: Yeah, well.
              That's exactly what the F-35 doesn’t have to do. He does not need to turn himself on the target, even if the enemy flies behind, this is done by the rocket itself.

              do you understand what you're saying ??? the rocket you are talking about is melee.
              if you let it go forward when the enemy is behind, it will stupidly UNFLOW !!!
              She has a very limited range.
              In general, we would think - what kind of morons do they turn an airplane when it is possible to shoot missiles in all directions ??? Would do AWAC with a rocket launcher and all bent, but for some reason this does not happen ... Have you ever wondered why? Do not work, I will answer.
              The aircraft remains a very difficult target and in order to be guaranteed to be shot down, missiles with very high performance characteristics are needed in terms of speed and maneuverability and resistance to overloads, while still carrying a warhead and high-quality homing head. Such missiles can still only do close combat, which can be used at distances of literally 1-5 km, no further. If a rocket has to turn in an arc, it will have to fly too much. Therefore, it is necessary to turn over the aircraft when launching missiles both ours and yours, as they say. Along the way, the time to hitting the target or its reaction is reduced. This is the basis for the demand for aircraft maneuverability. And to compensate for quality by quantity is also not an option, because aircraft have a limited load. And the price of rockets is of great importance. You think why they still put air guns?
              1. Come on
                Come on April 28 2016 21: 28
                -1
                Quote: yehat
                if you let it go forward when the enemy is behind, it will stupidly UNFLOW !!!
                She has a very limited range.


                The AIM-132 ASRAAM is just for that. They let her in, she turns to the right place and flies 50km.

                Quote: yehat
                In general, we would think - what kind of morons do they turn an airplane when it is possible to shoot missiles in all directions ??? Would do AWAC with a rocket launcher and all bent, but for some reason this does not happen ... Have you ever wondered why?


                AWACS with a rocket launcher is a big slow target with an EPR from a soccer field. It could stupidly have fat missiles like pointing from the S-300. What are you talking about?


                Quote: yehat
                The aircraft remains a very difficult target and in order to be guaranteed to be shot down, missiles with very high performance characteristics are needed in terms of speed and maneuverability and resistance to overloads, while still carrying a warhead and high-quality homing head.


                So take an interest in the performance characteristics of modern short-range long-range explosive missiles, be very surprised sure. Back in the USSR, there were such missiles as R-73. 40 km, which could be sent in any direction, without turning the plane towards the target. At AIM-132 ASRAAM up to or over 60g of overloads, besides also side nozzles, no maneuverability will help at all.

                Quote: yehat
                Such missiles can still only do close combat, which can be used at distances of literally 1-5 km, no further. If a rocket has to turn in an arc, it will have to fly too much. Therefore, it is necessary to turn over the aircraft when launching missiles both ours and yours, as they say. Along the way, the time to hitting the target or its reaction is reduced.



                You have not been interested in the technical development of this topic since the Vietnam War)) Today, melee explosives, with about 15g, 50 swing, side nozzles, etc. are considered to be from 60-4km away. Turning radius is a couple of tens of meters, then only acceleration, and when the seeker is determined accelerates again. That's it. And it’s not for nothing that the melee missiles reached the lines of up to 50 km, now there is a stealth, no stealth, no one will risk any dogfights. And you, like many for some reason, ignore that no maneuverability can save a melee explosive from a missile, except for jammers, but even they themselves are already becoming the target of modern GOS. But stealth, which is especially for aviation hemorrhagic radars, just poses a great danger to combat aircraft. If the Su-35 radar finds targets of 3-6 m2 per 300-400km, such as the Raptor and Lightning 90 and above. It’s in the front hemisphere at certain angles, and the same Raptor Lightings can fly in from the side, and there the detection power is already much weaker and the AIM-120D AMRAAM of medium range up to 180 km is a huge danger to Sushki.
                1. yehat
                  yehat April 29 2016 09: 49
                  0
                  again nonsense from advertising booklets request
                  1. I think you will agree that 50 km is the maximum range (by the way, there is still a question at what altitude!) And on a catch-up course, in order to catch up and hit the target, the real launch distance should be less. Suppose that the battle is at a transonic speed of 850 km / h
                  if you are 20 km from the plane, and you go behind and launch the rocket, then it falls on the catch-up course, the average speed Aim -132 will be about 5 max.
                  it’s easy to calculate that she will have to fly at least 26 km. If the battle is at low altitudes, then its maximum range will be only slightly more.
                  Thus, a 20 km distance is almost the maximum from where this missile can be reached at all. I emphasize the MAXIMUM.
                  And now the question of guidance: from 20 km, neither the thermal guidance head nor the radar can distinguish a trap from an airplane. Moreover, the heat head may not come at all. And the banal ejection of traps by the plane after detecting the attack reduces the chances of a missile strike not to zero, but 5-10 times less. Add to this the radar guidance errors. Do you follow my thought? from 20 km, the chances of getting a rocket into a fighter equipped at the su-27 level do not exceed 20%.
                  And now back to your perspective. Rocket flying even further, clearly capture the target is also more difficult. What are the chances of getting into, letting go without aiming your nose at the target?
                  I think you need to divide by 2.
                  thus, you’re ours of all kinds, 90% of the launches of the best of these missiles at distances of about 20 km will pass by a modern fighter.
                  Of course, I outlined it very roughly, but I hope it will reach you why the pilots prefer to launch rockets closer to the target.
                  Now about the reaction time at 20 km range.
                  let's say, at 5 km altitude, the Mach number will be taken for 1000 km / h
                  a rocket can fly 5000 mph
                  those. approach time (20/5000) * 60 * 60 seconds = approximately 15 seconds
                  about 7 seconds we devote to the reaction of the pilot, 8 remains
                  during this time, the plane can deviate about a kilometer from the axis of movement and set off a series of traps.

                  add to this that the battle is often on a collision course, and when maneuvering, planes often come close literally point blank.
              2. Come on
                Come on April 28 2016 21: 28
                -1
                Quote: yehat
                And to compensate for quality by quantity is also not an option, because aircraft have a limited load. And the price of rockets is of great importance. You think why they still put air guns?


                And no one compensates, improve missiles and their carriers. Now who would not have a star, but the future is not in the thrust and maneuverability vectors, but in the stealth, high efficiency of missile weapons. This speed alone is still important, as the higher the speed, the harder it is for a radar to accompany it and there are even its limitations. Machine guns (or rather aviation guns) is when there is no way out at all and the F-35 is one of the best in fact. I personally am very skeptical of the information that the F-35 is just such a brick, otherwise why would they put a gun? But it is very doubtful that he will let someone in for a dogfight. Yes, and the gun is probably more universal, so as to work as the A-10 on the ground.
                1. yehat
                  yehat April 29 2016 10: 11
                  0
                  the future is not for stealth or weapon efficiency, but for drones, for which there is no limitation of overloads during maneuvering, there are also a number of other difficulties. In maneuverable combat, they can become such a difficult target that even melee missiles will become powerless.
                  Personally, I suspect that the air defense weapons will soon make a sharp turn / step toward the barrage fire in terms of volume, as they used to shoot large-caliber guns or bring lasers to mind.
        6. saturn.mmm
          saturn.mmm April 27 2016 13: 00
          +2
          Quote: Zfoni
          Well it can’t in Russia.

          Neither are we so retarded.
          Your Python-5 is similar to the R-73 which was riveted back in 1983.
      2. Come on
        Come on April 27 2016 13: 59
        +1
        This refers to the all-aspect directions of missile flight. You fly forward, launch a rocket, it immediately flies in the direction where necessary. It is not necessary for this to turn the plane towards launch.
        1. saturn.mmm
          saturn.mmm April 27 2016 14: 29
          +2
          Quote: Yeah, well.
          This refers to the all-aspect directions of missile flight.

          On 2.25
          1. Come on
            Come on April 27 2016 16: 21
            -4
            Yes something like that. Only the Mig-29 did not help the sebas.
            1. Come on
              Come on April 28 2016 16: 44
              +2
              So many minuses and not a single explanation why :)) A total of 6 Mig-29s were shot down in an aerial battle, like 10 were destroyed, and the Serbs on the Mig-29 were unable to shoot down anyone, which is not surprising with such an advantage of NATO. It is unclear why in the video above they lie about several downed NATO aircraft. Mig-29 is an excellent aircraft of course, but there is no information about who and when the Serbs managed to shoot down on it, except for the statement in this program.
            2. saturn.mmm
              saturn.mmm April 29 2016 21: 34
              0
              Quote: Yeah, well.
              Yes something like that. Only the Mig-29 did not help the sebas.

              Cons are not mine.
              In that war, the Serbs were doomed, there are more than 10 times superiority in everything and from all sides.
              1. Come on
                Come on 1 May 2016 14: 49
                0
                I agree, not only superiority in the number of aircraft, but also AWACSs played a large role. Then the state of the Mig-29 fleet, out of 16, 10 flew, of which 6 were shot down in the air, the other 4 were also destroyed, but I don’t remember how. But this does not plead somehow the heroism of the Serbs, because you need to have steel eggs to try to somehow resist the numerical and technical superiority of NATO. Just because of such programs that mislead people, then there are srach and abuse.
    5. opus
      opus April 27 2016 21: 02
      +1
      Quote: Zfoni
      It would be very nice for our Air Force to get into service with the F-22, and even with our avionics ...

      I think so too.
      A piece of 200 norms?
      Schaub is infected ...
      That would no longer think about anything just to pay for the purchase / and service.
      1. Operator
        Operator April 27 2016 23: 08
        -1
        Israel gets American weapons for free laughing
    6. Idiot
      Idiot 1 May 2016 09: 51
      0
      They had already made such a decision, abandoned the phantom cannon and lost half of the Air Force in Vietnam. It’s very good that they decided so again and you are with them.
  3. Voha_krim
    Voha_krim April 27 2016 06: 35
    +3
    “In the event of a conflict, the European Raptors can be relocated exclusively to the UK or even further to the Icelandic Keflavik airbase.

    US sent to airbase Romania "Mikhail Kogalnichanu", which is located on the Black Sea, F-22 Raptor fighters. Aircraft departing from the UK will take part in the exercises.

    Original news RT in Russian:
    https://russian.rt.com/article/160451

    Polosatiks decided to respond to Russian cookie with their raptoring ... That's time for our specialists to remove all parameters from them.
  4. Rurikovich
    Rurikovich April 27 2016 07: 02
    +6
    And what to them! laughing The Fed will instantly launch a printing press and print a bunch of green candy wrappers, to make it more convincing, they will come up with a couple more "evil empires" so that the Western taxpayer cannot sleep well, the media has been bought, and the power over degrading and brainwashed various threats is complete. Allies (read "sixes" and slaves) faithfully look into the mouth and nod in agreement at every word laughing You can restart wassat And that in debt, as in silk, this is garbage. What is economics when an entire planet is afraid of you lol There are a couple of dissatisfied, but you can agree with them face to face, and so on to the stage, in the form of an exceptional and fair actor ...
    That's just that everyone understands that this is more of a game than the truth.
    And therefore, you can continue to invent horror stories for your eyes, cut money, say one thing today, tomorrow another, violate different agreements ... In short request This is now official America - clown lol
    And the resumption of production of the F-22 is just one of the highlights of this policy (especially against the backdrop of the failure of the F-35)
    Personally, my opinion hi
    1. saturn.mmm
      saturn.mmm April 27 2016 13: 05
      +1
      Quote: Rurikovich
      The Fed will instantly launch a printing press and print a bunch of green candy wrappers, for greater persuasiveness they will come up with a couple more "evil empires" so that the Western taxpayer cannot sleep well

      Now the Fed does not have to start the machine, the numbers on the computer simply change.
      [media = http: //webdiscover.ru/v/22301]
    2. iwind
      iwind April 27 2016 16: 19
      +6
      Quote: Rurikovich
      And the resumption of production of the F-22 is just one of the highlights of this policy (especially against the backdrop of the failure of the F-35)
      Personally, my opinion

      Quote: Amnestied
      In how the Jews sang, and in the past, Professor and Co. promoted fu35. F-35 is a complete failure and peeling, the strength of this raised the question of restoring production of the F-22, but can they restore it, is that the question? Gee-s))))

      Here's at least someone to explain why the "failure" (let it be a failure) F-35. I must say on the F-22. They have different tasks in the Air Force.
      This is how to write that the Su-34 is a failed plane because they are buying the Su-35. These are different planes. F-22 will not be able to work on the ground as F-35 and vice versa F-35 will not be as effective against air targets as F-22.
      So yes "failure". Orders rise, prices fall. It flies a little bit completely on April 23, 55000 hours of which 25000 from April 2015 and 5000 from 10.02.2016. Yes, horror ...
      1. Rurikovich
        Rurikovich April 27 2016 20: 14
        -2
        Quote: iwind
        This is how to write that the Su-34 is a failed plane because they are buying the Su-35. These are different planes. F-22 will not be able to work on the ground as F-35 and vice versa F-35 will not be as effective against air targets as F-22.

        Well yes... winked That's just working on the ground is the task of bombers and attack aircraft wink And potential customers have already expressed dissatisfaction with the small volume of the weapon compartment. so the bomber is useless. Consequently, such a comparison with our "dryers" simply does not fit into any framework request The F-35 e is a supposed cheaper alternative to the "twenty-second", which, when trying to cram something uncrowded into one plane at a lower price, in the hope of getting a sort of Uirsal, eventually turns into a laughingstock. Let's say it was created for other purposes, but the refusal of 22- x in favor of the 35th came out "exceptional" sideways. This, of course, is my personal opinion, but a specialized aircraft is always more weighty than such "pepelats" lol hi
        Quote: iwind
        So yes "failure". Orders rise prices fall

        Interesting ... Canada already refuses these squalor, some vassals have reduced the volume of orders, Jews, probably, will wait for their versions by the 25th year, if things are going at such a pace repeat
        Quote: iwind
        Must say on the F-22. They have different tasks in the Air Force.

        Compared to the 22nd, the thirty-fifth well doesn’t attract either the conqueror of the superiority in the air, or the bomber, the attack aircraft. lol
        1. iwind
          iwind April 27 2016 21: 56
          +4
          Quote: Rurikovich
          Well, yes ... It's just the task of bombers and attack aircraft to work on the ground. And potential customers have already shown dissatisfaction with the small volume of the weapon compartment. so the bomber is useless. Consequently, such a comparison with our "dryers" simply does not fit into any frame the F-35 is a supposed cheaper alternative to the "twenty-second", which, when trying to cram something uncrowded into one plane at a lower price, in the hope of getting a sort of Uirsal, turns into a laughing stock Suppose it was created for other purposes, but the abandonment of the 22s in favor of the 35th turned out to be "exceptional" sideways. This, of course, is my personal opinion, but a specialized aircraft is always more weighty than such "pepelats"

          So he is a fighter-bomber. The F-22 does not and 1/3 of the weapons VZ, which is the F-35. Tin ... The F-35 was never an alternative to the F-22. These are completely different weapons programs. The funny thing is that the F-35 is just the tiki sharpened for strikes on the ground. And the F-22 in the air. F-35 standard combat load like that of the F-16 (2 bombs and 2 missiles), fits inside, so all the rules
          Quote: Rurikovich
          Interesting ... Canada already refuses these squalor, some vassals have reduced the volume of orders, Jews, probably, will wait for their versions by the 25th year, if things are going at such a pace

          Yeah, only Canada has not refused. Just a couple of months ago I transferred money as a member of the JSF program. The Israelis will receive the first aircraft within a couple of months. Since December 2015, they are preparing their airbase for f-35.
          Quote: Rurikovich
          Compared to the 22nd, the thirty-fifth well doesn’t pull either the conqueror of the superiority in the air, or the bomber, the attack aircraft

          ??? He is a much better bomber and attack aircraft than the F-22. Yes, the F-22 has only 2 types of bombs W-W
  5. qwert
    qwert April 27 2016 07: 12
    +1
    And for what article minusuli ??? Strange ...
    1. godofwar6699
      godofwar6699 April 27 2016 09: 28
      -3
      Quote: qwert
      And for what article minusuli ??? Strange ...

      plus and minus system for children hi
    2. lelikas
      lelikas April 27 2016 12: 54
      +1
      Quote: qwert
      And for what article minusuli ??? Strange ...

      Because of the fierce class hatred! Not otherwise .
  6. zulusuluz
    zulusuluz April 27 2016 07: 19
    +4
    Americans concluded that over-timelessness is an excessive and unnecessary quality in 5th generation fighter aircraft in the era of all-round explosive missiles. And they seem to be right ...
    In the USSR, this has already passed. They removed the aircraft guns from the planes, hoped for missiles, but then put them back in place.
    I do not argue, an experienced carpenter shrugs off a board with an ax, but a smart one picks up a plane.
    1. Come on
      Come on April 27 2016 15: 02
      +1
      Isn't there a gun on the F-35? And is he really such a clumsy brick as many think? After all, one cannot underestimate the training of pilots, which is traditionally among the Americans at the highest level. Even all NATO pilots and allies are sent there without fail. We must always proceed from the fact that the F-35 is not a failure and not a brick, otherwise surprises can be expensive and come from this themselves, to make their "invisible" in sufficient quantity and preferably in two classes, light and heavy.
  7. Wolka
    Wolka April 27 2016 08: 26
    0
    after reading the article, we can confidently note a panic in the ranks of the Yankees Air Force and in their European NATO units, in particular, the F-22 as well as its fellow wing F-35 (the birds turned out to be golden and therefore not lifting at all, doomed to not stay forever at the airfield in the hangar , and not at all what their creators expected), the Russian Su-35 as well as the T-50 in terms of performance characteristics that meet modern requirements for gaining superiority in the air, just don’t fall into the dust, but all the alternatives fail to inflate cheeks in the Pentagon and in Brussels, and in overall, purely philosophical, to be the first in something, well, it depends on which end to look at ...
    1. Come on
      Come on April 27 2016 15: 56
      +2
      Quote: Volka
      after reading the article, we can confidently note a panic in the ranks of the Yankees Air Force and in their European NATO units in


      Ah, if everything would be so simple, I read the article and I’m already sure that the enemy is panicking, tearing hair on her head .. We must understand that the Americans are not thinking about how to fight in a hypothetical military conflict with the Russian Federation until the last plane and are afraid that Raptors will run out of them, and about absolute superiority in the air and the ability to simultaneously attack hundreds of targets on the ground at once, that is, radar and air defense. In the Russian Aerospace Forces now and in the foreseeable future, even the number of Su-35s will not reach a counterweight to the Raptors, they seem to be 48 in number so far. I'm not talking about the order of MO in 12 T-50. For the simultaneous attack of air defense positions from the Baltic to the Black Sea, they need several hundred to a thousand F-35s that will be covered by F-22s. For the second echelon, NATO still has several thousand early generations, including not a few Rafaley, Typhoons, F-15, F-18, not to mention F-16 and the like. So be more realistic gentlemen, for parity in the air and effective air defense, you still need a lot of things to implement and manufacture. The only question is whether this is possible at all, is there so much money.
  8. NEXUS
    NEXUS April 27 2016 08: 30
    +5
    The United States, against the backdrop of problems with the F-35, has no alternative besides the dinosaur today, and the main world players are already on their heels with their designs of promising fighters, and much cheaper than the Raptors, so all this crying in Congress and McCain's barking all over the world.
  9. 222222
    222222 April 27 2016 09: 14
    +2
    According to media reports, on April 22, two U.S. F-22 fighter jets of 95 IAE (95th Fighter Squadron, Tyndall Air Force Base, Florida.) And a KC-135 refueling aircraft were transferred from Avb Lakenhit in the UK to Romania to the Michael Kogalnichana airbase.
    The transfer of fighters was carried out as part of the NATO Atlantic Resolve operation to "strengthen the eastern flank of NATO." According to the Romanian news agency AGERPRES, military aircraft will fly out of Romania today. (25 04 16 g)

    The planes participated in exercises on the Black Sea with the aim of supporting the eastern US allies in NATO.

    ... The United States deployed 12 F-22 aircraft at the Lakenheath Air Force Base in England.
    http://www.usafe.af.mil/news/story.asp?id=123472807
    1. 222222
      222222 April 27 2016 12: 07
      0
      Two Lockheed Martin F-22A Raptor Block 30 fighters (US Air Force numbers 05-4106 / TY and 05-4107 / TY) of the 95th fighter squadron of the 325th US Air Force fighter wing arriving at the Romanian Mihail Kogălniceanu Airport in Konstanz. 25.04.2016/XNUMX/XNUMX (c) Daniel Mihalescu / AFP
      taken here ..http: //bmpd.livejournal.com/2016/04/26/
    2. 222222
      222222 April 27 2016 14: 41
      0
      27.04.2016

      On Wednesday, the United States sent two fifth-generation F-22 multi-role fighters, call signs MONGL01 and MONGL02, to the NATO airbase in Siauliai, Lithuania, to patrol the Baltic region, aviation portals tracking the movement of military aircraft reported.

      The fighters have now taken off from the British Lakenheath airbase, where they flew from the continental United States last week. On their way to Siauliai, where they are due to arrive in the afternoon local time, the fighters are escorted by an RC-135W US Air Force reconnaissance aircraft, call sign ABILO71, which will conduct an 11-hour observation flight near Russian borders in the Baltic Sea region.
  10. samoletil18
    samoletil18 April 27 2016 09: 20
    +2
    F-35, in the course of money comparable to the F-22 became? Otherwise, for your own needs only, according to the accepted ratio, it is heavy: light, the first eight hundred already, without a little, is required. And if light at all costs is comparable with heavy, then f-35 has no hope for export.
    1. Forest
      Forest April 27 2016 10: 27
      +2
      F-35 is 2 times cheaper than F-22, but in terms of combat characteristics it is much inferior as an air fighter.
  11. Pygmy
    Pygmy April 27 2016 09: 50
    +1
    They resume the raptor because it is more efficient than the F-35 and at a price the latter has almost caught up with it.
    The second point in my opinion: Japan asked the states to sell her raptors but was refused, as a result, it is now building its 5th generation fighter. Perhaps the States, having renewed the construction of the Raptor, want to involve it in Japan, so that they do not develop their 5th generation fighter system and are dependent on the states in terms of armaments further.
    1. Operator
      Operator April 27 2016 10: 22
      0
      Not quite to catch up (F-22 411 mln. $, F-35 256 mln. $), But when the Penguins are discontinued and the Raptors are restarted with a series of several hundred cars, F-22 has every chance to fit the price within 250 mln. . $.

      It is no coincidence that the Chairman of the US Senate Defense Committee, John McCain, sharply criticized the Penguins development and production program, and a few days ago, hearings on the resumption of construction and modernization of the Raptors began in the relevant subcommittee of the defense committee of the US House of Representatives with the participation of specialists from the Air Force and Lockheed Martin.

      If this idea is realized, 1,4 trillion dollars spent on the F-35 program can be written off at a loss (with the exception of funds spent on radar and OLS).
      1. iwind
        iwind April 27 2016 14: 28
        +2
        Quote: Operator
        If this idea is realized, 1,4 trillion dollars spent on the F-35 program can be written off at a loss (with the exception of funds spent on radar and OLS).

        and when it was spent $ 1,4 - this is the cost of the entire program for 40 years.
        Quote: Operator
        Not quite to catch up (F-22 411 million $, F-35 256 mln. $), But with the cessation of production of Penguins and the resumption of production of the Raptors with a series of several hundred cars, the F-22 has every chance to fit in at a price of around 250 million . $

        If the price of the report, I guess where it came from all the costs of ATF divided by the number of aircraft, then F-35-256 million where?
        Anyway, what does the F-22 have to do with the failure or success of F-35 airplanes with different capabilities.
        1. Operator
          Operator April 27 2016 14: 59
          -1
          RIA Novosti, in a material on yesterday’s speech by John McCain in the US Senate, calls the cost of the F-35 program already at the level of 1,5 trillion. dollars.

          256 million dollars is the purchase price of the F-35B in 2014 paid by the US Air Force. Purchase prices for F-35A and F-35C ranged, if not mistaken, from 251 to 270 million dollars.

          As so, F-22 has nothing to do with F-35 - the program for creating the latter was clearly linked to the closure of the production of the former. Everyone shouted that the F-35 is mega-cool, that it will replace not only fighters, but also strike aircraft, and will become the main aircraft of the Air Force, which was fully confirmed by plans to produce 3500 + vehicles.
          It was later, when the money and time was spent, everyone saw their sight and began to lament that the "Penguin" is a purely strike aircraft and it cannot be a fighter. But then it was necessary to change its abbreviation from F to F / A, which the US Air Force still has not done.
          The fact that "Penguin" as a fighter has disastrous characteristics is a question for the developers.
          1. iwind
            iwind April 27 2016 15: 18
            +1
            Quote: Operator
            RIA Novosti, in a material on yesterday’s speech by John McCain in the US Senate, calls the cost of the F-35 program already at the level of 1,5 trillion. dollars.

            This is a quote from the RIA. Specifically, he said something else. But not the point. There is not one and a half trillion and close. At the moment, somewhere around 100-120bn.
            Quote: Operator
            256 million dollars is the purchase price of the F-35B in 2014 paid by the US Air Force. Purchase prices for F-35A and F-35C ranged, if not mistaken, from 251 to 270 million dollars.

            No. The full price with all expenses (including expenses for expansion of production) of the F-35B in 2014 was $ 166,579.500
            You are mistaken and strong.
            Valued F-35A production for 2016 for an airplane of $ 102,497 million +
            If you get investment in the production and procurement of related equipment will be $ 114.496 million.
            Quote: Operator
            As so, F-22 has nothing to do with F-35 - the program for creating the latter was clearly linked to the closure of the production of the former. Everyone shouted that the F-35 is mega-cool, that it will replace not only fighters, but also strike aircraft, and will become the main aircraft of the Air Force, which was fully confirmed by plans to produce 3500 + vehicles.
            It was later, when the money and time was spent, everyone saw their sight and began to lament that the "Penguin" is a purely strike aircraft and it cannot be a fighter. But then it was necessary to change its abbreviation from F to F / A, which the US Air Force still has not done.

            And who got it connected?
            There's even the name f-35 joint strike fighte. He was always a shock. The Navy even abandoned the gun for an increase in slightly fuel. His birth was sharpened as a strike fighte
            There is no connection between ATF and JSF - they go in parallel, as the F-15 and F-16 /
            and the general plans for 2017 are 2,457 at all.
            1. The comment was deleted.
            2. Operator
              Operator April 27 2016 15: 46
              -1
              I have named the purchase price of the F-35 fully loaded in 2014 for the needs of the US Air Force. Everything else is misinformation or the price is incomplete and / or minus the previously made investments of the recipient country in the development of "Penguin".

              The next linking of the F-22 to the F-35 this week was made by the US Congress - first in the Committee on the Armed Forces of the House of Representatives hearings began on the resumption of production of the Raptor, and then in the Committee on the Armed Forces of the Senate, its chairman made a devastating criticism of the Penguin. ...
              1. iwind
                iwind April 27 2016 16: 07
                +2
                Quote: Operator
                The next linking of the F-22 to the F-35 this week was made by the US Congress - first in the Committee on the Armed Forces of the House of Representatives hearings began on the resumption of production of the Raptor, and then in the Committee on the Armed Forces of the Senate, its chairman made a devastating criticism of the Penguin. ...

                In the originals it was not. Maybe later, when translating, she did not rule out
                Quote: Operator
                I have named the purchase price of the F-35 fully loaded in 2014 for the needs of the US Air Force. Everything else is misinformation or the price is incomplete and / or minus the previously made investments of the recipient country in the development of "Penguin"

                Well cite a document about this. So I’ve already asked so many times to transfer poufs to a huge price. The F-35 has never been received. and then in the budget of the ILC of the United States other figures.
                1. Operator
                  Operator April 27 2016 16: 22
                  -4
                  251 million bucks from the bush laughing
                  1. iwind
                    iwind April 27 2016 16: 34
                    -1
                    and where does this document come from? He has been walking on LJ for a long time, well, someone drew it. I can redraw it in minutes and will generally sell $ 1.
                    here he is not.
                    http://www.secnav.navy.mil/fmc/fmb/Pages/Fiscal-Year-2016.aspx
                    Once again, these amounts are not in the budgets.
                    PS It’s not even the format of official US papers on budgets.
                    UPD is generally cool they upgraded previous built added to the price of new laughing
                    1. Operator
                      Operator April 27 2016 16: 46
                      -1
                      251 mln. $ Is the result of the 2014 year.

                      As of December 2015, the actual cost of the F-35 program was $ 56,4 billion with 174 aircraft produced.
                      The average cost of one F-35 has reached 330 million $ am
                      That is why John McCain yesterday cried out like a tan.
                      1. iwind
                        iwind April 27 2016 16: 59
                        0
                        Quote: Operator
                        251 mln. $ Is the result of the 2014 year.

                        As of December 2015, the actual cost of the F-35 program was $ 56,4 billion with 174 aircraft produced.

                        The average cost of one F-35 at the beginning of 2016 amounted to $ 330 million

                        That is, they put all the expenses on the program at stake. airplanes ... And this was done even until the end of production .. laughing
                        Yes, this is of course an indicator of the price of the aircraft. wassat. In general, as always, I probably will not see a single document.
                        Purely some kind of calculation on the basis of something is not clear. And I thought, though now something will be interesting.
                        Everything as usual crying
                      2. Olezhek
                        Olezhek April 27 2016 19: 32
                        -1
                        That is, they put all the expenses on the program at stake. airplanes ... And this was done even until the end of production ..


                        Well, yes, and then it will be cheaper and cheaper ...
                        You can laugh as much as you like, but penguin is a miserable vundervaffl worth its weight in gold ...

                        Free World TM "superiority" symbol.
              2. opus
                opus April 27 2016 21: 15
                +1
                Quote: iwind
                and then in the budget of the ILC of the USA other figures.

                Low Rate Initial Production lot 7 (not including the engine) are:

                F-35A: $ 98 million
                F-35B: $ 104 million
                F-35C: $ 116 million
                An F-35A purchased in 2018 and delivered in 2020 will be $ 85 million, which is the equivalent of $ 75 million in today's dollars.

                Each F-35 now costs around $ 108 million, down from $ 150 just a few years ago, he says. And once the plane goes into full production in 2018, he estimates the cost will fall to about $ 85 million each, fully loaded.

                The numbers 250 million / piece are obtained as follows:

                pg. 1-7



                =======================
                The Government Account Office says that by the end of its lifetime, the F-35 program will have cost $ 1 trillion
                1. iwind
                  iwind April 27 2016 22: 14
                  0
                  aa take all the costs of the JSF divided by count. aircraft?
                  I’ll leave here for my future Air Force budget. It will be more convenient in the future. In order not to go into budgets every time
                  2016 price
                  Flyaway - Flyaway End Item Cost 102.585
                  Airframe / CFE 67. $ 329 million
                  CFE Electronics $ 20.226 Million
                  Engines / Eng ACC $ 13.019 million
                  ECO $ 2.011 million
                  1. opus
                    opus April 27 2016 22: 48
                    +1
                    Quote: iwind
                    I’ll leave here for my future Air Force budget.


                    Do you want it?

                    to understand this porridge?



                    Flies to itself:

                    (even in a photoshop)

                    and let it fly.
                    CE is not our money ...
                    1. iwind
                      iwind April 27 2016 23: 01
                      +2
                      Quote: opus
                      Do you want it?

                      The process itself is entertaining. So many myths about the F-35 are fun. I have work with numbers, and with boring ones, but not here. Plus English. use when reading.
                      This photoshop is more beautiful
                      PS
                      Quote: opus
                      CE is not our money ...

                      Well, I don’t know, they’re worried about what it feels like for ours. That gold is constantly compared.
                    2. opus
                      opus April 27 2016 23: 47
                      +2
                      Quote: iwind
                      I have work with numbers, and with boring ones, but not here. Plus English. I use when reading.


                      If you have such a hobby, I can associate with your daughter, she now has a graduate student? Diploma? - xs that now in Europe in magistracy.
                      in general, and the numbers and the English and the date and the day, and the logistics with accountants.
                      (The whole brain has already endured)
                      Quote: iwind
                      Well, I don’t know, they’re worried about what it feels like for ours. That gold is constantly compared.

                      I'm already tired of writing all sorts of "tyapkin / vilkin"

                      and other "fellow creatures"


                      Only slop on top and not any justification.
                      It would be better for this:

                      rested

                      Quote: iwind
                      This photoshop is more beautiful

                      me a month (or 2-3) ago Lockheed Martin Corporation (the one that © All Rights Reserved) sent cool pictures (finally) climatics on the 35th, all I can’t "chirknut frostbitten f-35. And is it necessary?
                      They will peck and not believe
                    3. iwind
                      iwind April 28 2016 13: 55
                      +1
                      Quote: opus
                      If you have such a hobby, I can associate with your daughter, she now has a graduate student? Diploma? - xs that now in Europe in magistracy.
                      in general, and the numbers and the English and the date and the day, and the logistics with accountants.
                      (The whole brain has already endured)

                      Not in my rules to strain strangers.
                      But if suddenly there is an opportunity, I will not give up something interesting on accounting and logistics in Europe (but in English). I repeat I do not need to bother, now the main desire is studying, but you can always find something to honor. Here the Massachusetts Institute of Technology has opened free access to lectures.
                      Quote: opus
                      me a month (or 2-3) ago Lockheed Martin Corporation (the one that © All Rights Reserved) sent cool pictures (finally) climatics on the 35th, all I can’t "chirknut frostbitten f-35. And is it necessary?
                      They will peck and not believe

                      Itself was surprised, but they really answer ...
                      He also wrote articles on the DOTE Ioc report and the 2015 report, collected interviews from pilots and mechanics, and translated. 90 percent was already ready ... I thought to include a chapter on fin. questions or write a separate article. But I read the comments and realized that no one needed it.
                      So my answer to your question is not necessary (I decided for myself), why do thankless work and waste your time?
                    4. opus
                      opus April 28 2016 15: 57
                      +3
                      Quote: iwind
                      Not in my rules to strain strangers.

                      You definitely do not strain it.
                      It is stressful, I give an 100% guarantee. The brain will endure. In whom the child xs.
                      Deep night. A call to the police.
                      - Hello! Here on the street the horse is dead lying. On the street of G-th-th-th ...
                      - On Gorky Street?
                      - No, on the street of G-th-th-th ...
                      And so it is repeated several times. The attendant drops the call. Call again a little later:
                      - Here on the street a dead horse lies. On the street of G-h-th-th ...
                      - On Gorky Street?
                      “Yes, I dragged her there.”
                      Quote: iwind
                      but in English.

                      Oxford is resting. To me her banter about "English" Europeans have already gotten.
                      Glory U. the youngest has grown, here they speak
                      Quote: iwind
                      Here the Massachusetts Institute of Technology has opened free access to lectures.

                      my wallet will not even withstand "living", let him go to work ("Dad, well, there are such interesting topics in environmental engineering, I want you, how are you?")
                      Quote: iwind
                      Itself was surprised, but they really answer ...

                      I almost always. Boeing most of all the brain makes: where, why, why, and so on ...
                      lol
                    5. iwind
                      iwind April 28 2016 19: 02
                      +1
                      Quote: opus
                      my wallet will not even withstand "living", let him go to work ("Dad, well, there are such interesting topics in environmental engineering, I want you, how are you?")

                      Everything is much more modest. There is Internet access to lectures (video and audio)
                      http://ocw.mit.edu/courses/audio-video-courses/
                      Although this is very good for such an institution.
                    6. opus
                      opus April 28 2016 19: 09
                      +1
                      Quote: iwind
                      Everything is much more modest.

                      Thank you, I will pass (then 2 weeks could make me)
                      Valmet Oy / Metso Oyj will practice. mb. MIT and "will help", you see, it will become, well, or vice-versa at the extreme (like Clintonsha) lol
  • godofwar6699
    godofwar6699 April 27 2016 10: 09
    +2
    Quote: Voha_krim
    “In the event of a conflict, the European Raptors can be relocated exclusively to the UK or even further to the Icelandic Keflavik airbase.

    US sent to airbase Romania "Mikhail Kogalnichanu", which is located on the Black Sea, F-22 Raptor fighters. Airplanes ,, will take part in the exercises.

    Original news RT in Russian:
    https://russian.rt.com/article/160451

    Polosatiks decided to respond to Russian cookie with their raptoring ... That's time for our specialists to remove all parameters from them.

    Quote: Voha_krim
    “In the event of a conflict, the European Raptors can be relocated exclusively to the UK or even further to the Icelandic Keflavik airbase.

    US sent to airbase Romania "Mikhail Kogalnichanu", which is located on the Black Sea, F-22 Raptor fighters. Aircraft departing from the UK will take part in the exercises.

    Original news RT in Russian:
    https://russian.rt.com/article/160451

    Polosatiks decided to respond to Russian cookie with their raptoring ... That's time for our specialists to remove all parameters from them.

    departed from the UK
  • godofwar6699
    godofwar6699 April 27 2016 10: 48
    +1
    Quote: 0255
    Quote: godofwar6699
    I think Israel will be one of the first customers good

    Yeah, Jews like to complain that they were not given the Raptors laughing

    Israel is a good partner.
  • Operator
    Operator April 27 2016 10: 54
    +3
    John McCain, chairman of the U.S. Senate Armed Forces Committee, sharply criticized the F-35 Lightning II fifth generation stealth aircraft development program on Tuesday.

    "The performance of the F-35 program is both a scandal and a tragedy in terms of cost, time and quality of work. Development of the F-35 has already stretched for more than 15 years. The cost has more than doubled from initial estimates," McCain said. ...

    McCain recalled that it was originally planned to build more than a thousand F-35 aircraft of various modifications by the 2016 year. In reality, only 179 aircraft were built, and this affects the combat effectiveness of all military branches. The high cost of aircraft has led to the fact that they will be delivered to the armed forces until the 2040 year, when these aircraft are already outdated.

    "There are problems with maintenance, test software, radar instability. Deficiencies in sensors, fuel system, structural damage during testing, weaknesses in engine reliability, limitations in the crew rescue system that have caused weight restrictions for pilots, and possible vulnerability to cyberattacks." , - McCain listed the disadvantages of the aircraft.

    In addition, he criticized the entire course of the project, when the production of aircraft has been going on for several years, although the tests have not yet been completed.

    Of the other problems, McCain noted that the three F-35 modifications are essentially three different aircraft models, each of which must be developed and financed separately. This will not allow decommissioning aircraft of previous models, which were going to be replaced by the F-35.

    The F-35 Lightning II program has already cost the United States nearly 1,5 trillion dollars, exceeding the costs of implementing the Manhattan nuclear weapons project and becoming the most expensive weapons development and production program in human history.
  • Verdun
    Verdun April 27 2016 11: 33
    +2
    The reasons for the restoration of production of the F-22 are quite obvious - the failure of the F-35 program. The Americans need to update the Air Force fleet and need it "yesterday." And since all other fighters in service have been developed for quite some time, only the F-22 remains. Expensive? Yes, absolutely. But you have to pay for your own stupidity.
    1. Olezhek
      Olezhek April 27 2016 19: 33
      0
      Well, like yes, something like this they did.
  • Operator
    Operator April 27 2016 14: 19
    -1
    The main US fighter F-35 (developed under the JSF program - Joint Strike Fighter), designed to replace all types of tactical aircraft F-15, F-16, F / A-18 and AV-8A, according to its flight performance It turned out to be significantly worse than the main Su-35С Russian fighter (developed as part of the IFI program - the Multifunction Fighter).

    Technical trade-offs in the design of the F-35 airframe with the goal of reducing the EPR to 0,3 sq. M (the only advantage over the enemy) are completely depreciated by the small volume of the internal weapon compartments, forcing to place most of the combat load on the external load, thereby increasing the EPR to the level of Su-35С .

    Moreover, high flight performance allows the Su-35C multi-functional fighter to compete on equal terms with the F-22 air dominance fighter.

    F-22 / Su-35С:
    empty weight, t ~ 19,7 / 19,0
    fuel weight in internal tanks, t ~ 8,2 / 11,5
    maximum range, km ~ 2000 / 3600
    maximum take-off weight, t ~ 38 / 34,5
    normal take-off weight, t ~ 29,2 / 27,0
    maximum engine thrust, t ~ 31,6 / 29,0
    maximum speed, km / h ~ 2410 / 2500
    all-aspect thrust vector control ~ no / Yes
    wing area, sq.m ~ 78 / 62
    optical location station ~ no / Yes
    active electronic warfare system ~ no / Yes
    number of missiles BB SD ~ 6 / 6
    the number of missiles BB MD ~ 2 / 4

    The planned installation of an optical radar station as a result of the modernization of the F-22, on the one hand, will finally give him the opportunity to fight at short range, but, on the other hand, will increase the Raptor's EPR from 0,07 to 0,3 sq. M. ... The Su-35S will retain its twofold advantage in the number of short-range missiles.
    At the same time, the detection distance of the F-22 with the Su-35С radar will increase to 60 km (the range of the AIM-120C7 and RVV-SD missiles for maneuverable targets), which will make it possible to compare the chances of two fighters at medium range.
    In the case of long-range combat, the Su-35S has a clear advantage in the type of weaponry - the RVV-BD missile is 120 km ahead of the AIM-120D missile in maximum flight range. The size of the Raptor's internal compartments does not allow for a missile with a large mass-dimensional characteristics and a range of application.

    The cost indicators of the "stealth" F-22 (estimate after the resumption of production) and the "aluminum" Su-35S (state order for 2016) differ by an order of magnitude - 250 and 30 million dollars, respectively.
    1. voyaka uh
      voyaka uh April 27 2016 15: 14
      -1
      The stealth T-50 has a normal AFAR, it can be compared with the F-22.
      When new engines are ready for the T-50, there will be a first-class fighter.

      To start with the Su-35, at least the AFAR should be installed,
      I don’t want to talk about his EPR: a New Year tree in the sky.
      But suitable for close combat, it is impossible to neglect it.
      1. Operator
        Operator April 27 2016 16: 04
        -1
        T-50 is a cherry on a cake.

        The main Su-35С fighter and any NATO tactical aircraft will tear a warmer like a tazik and will land 8 tons from all 12 suspension nodes and fly 3600 km without hanging tanks (up to this level, Raptor with its 2000 km as to the Moon).

        Nafig did not give up on stealth at medium and long ranges - air-to-air missiles at this distance are used exclusively with radio command guidance during more than 90 percent of the flight time. And the Raptor (surprise) guides with the help of its radar and lights up like a Christmas tree.

        At short range, homing missiles and (second surprise) optical-location stations are used, which the Su-35С has, but the Raptor does not yet. So in this case, what is stealth, what is not - no difference.
        1. voyaka uh
          voyaka uh April 27 2016 16: 24
          +1
          And, - like a hot water bottle. So they would say right away ("good luck gentlemen") smile
          Okay, we will remain with our opinions.
          1. Operator
            Operator April 27 2016 16: 34
            -2
            With one amendment, you will remain with your opinion, and I will also have the opinion of the Israeli Air Force IDF, who, by the Sabbath of God, asked the United States to sell the F-22, and they refused with reference to their law (they themselves accepted, they themselves refused) bully
        2. Gogia
          Gogia April 27 2016 20: 52
          0
          Here all the aviators gathered. There are no forces .... In order for there to be a parity of forces, we need to have about 8 T50 regiments — or 16 Su35 regiments — in the Air Force — this is at least to close the European theater of operations and the Far East. When will we have this quantity? I do not think that Israel could afford at least 1 regiment to operate. Very high cost of 1 hour flight! Very high cost of ammunition.
          Stealth, according to many American experts, cost a lot of U.S. money, but imposed such restrictions on the operation and use of ammunition that it’s horrible ... Nobody knows how the stealth BIOS behaves in real combat conditions in conflict not with the Papuans or Arabs with BSV, but of the developed Air Force, with modern air defense and electronic warfare systems, we also cannot say they will break their F35 Su22 or not. Different class cars and different cost. The main thing is that we can make at least 100 combat aircraft a year! By the way, with the front-line aviation we have a priest - Mig-29 what will we replace?
          1. voyaka uh
            voyaka uh April 27 2016 22: 57
            0
            So far, 33 aircraft have been ordered.
            But all we need is at least a hundred, so that
            to disarm the obsolete F16
    2. Gogia
      Gogia April 27 2016 20: 55
      0
      By the way, the use of a special absorbent coating and the manufacture of the vertical tail and the leading edge of the wing from composites, the installation of gratings on the air intakes will significantly reduce the Su35 EPR - this is easy to do !!!
      1. Operator
        Operator April 27 2016 23: 18
        -1
        Some of this has already been implemented, some are planned.

        But it must be understood that with the external load of the combat load, the Su-35С EPR will be about 10 sq.m. An exception is the placement of a limited load (6 + 2 BB missiles) in a conformal container between air intakes.
  • barbiturate
    barbiturate April 27 2016 14: 58
    0
    Apparently, the likelihood of resuming F-22 production is very high and is clearly due to difficulties with the F-35 program and these difficulties are voiced at the highest level, no matter who is related to McCain, but he is the Chairman of the US Senate Committee on the Armed Forces, he himself was a former combat the pilot belongs to the uppermost layer of the US military elite (McCain’s grandfather and father were admirals of the US Navy). If he makes SUCH statements, then the truth of the matter is not very important. All the same, it would be frankly stupid to think that he does not know something or that he is poorly aware of something, who is who, and this one is clearly in the know and makes such reports ... this is very serious
  • Kibl
    Kibl April 27 2016 15: 46
    0
    I understand that the F-35 project is slowly covered with a copper basin?
  • Vasili09
    Vasili09 April 27 2016 16: 18
    -3
    But in the 22st century, when our engineering idea caught up, and even began to outstrip the much-praised F-50A in terms of airborne radar systems, electronic warfare systems, maneuverability, and range (especially pronounced in the T-35 PAK-FA, Su-XNUMXS)
    while the Americans resume their raptor in a series, we are not releasing the PAK FA, we are already drawing the drawings of the 6th generation aircraft and are thinking about the 7th generation, there is such a hat ahead of engineering
    but otherwise simple blah blah blah
    in terms of airborne radar files, they even wanted to shove Armata, but it didn’t work out, it didn’t work out for money, and the stress is with the components
    electronic warfare systems, well, except for frank fakes about Khibiny and Cook or the use of a birdhouse in Syria (there is such a fake video there, the rocket self-destructed after a wire breakage, the distance to the target was too far, the operator’s mistake, and ours howled that it’s our rocket that shot down)
    maneuverability, well, here more pilots merit
  • Yak28
    Yak28 April 27 2016 21: 00
    +1
    F-22 and F-35 will show themselves well in battle or I don’t know, but they were mass-produced and they both produced about 170-180 pieces. We do not have a 5-generation serial aircraft, and I feel when Russia gives out about a hundred serial 5 generation cars, the United States will already have thousands.
  • iouris
    iouris April 27 2016 21: 40
    +2
    It makes no sense to compare the F-22 and -35 with our aircraft. There will be no knightly duels. Conventional forces are needed to fly over the D. Cook and fight off invasions by CIA and Pentagon agents: all sorts of ISIS and juntas.
    Parity for a country with a population of 140 million with a "golden billion" bloc in the conventional arms race is unattainable in principle. To set a task like this means to overstrain and lose very soon. The West is playing for a long time only because there is still nuclear deterrence. You need to be a forge for your agents.
  • godofwar6699
    godofwar6699 April 27 2016 23: 29
    0
    Quote: opus
    will pull

    why not?
  • Operator
    Operator April 27 2016 23: 53
    -1
    The Fifth International Conference on International Security has opened in Moscow today.

    It is attended by defense ministers and representatives of these ministries of Russia, the USA, European countries of NATO, China, India, the Republic of Korea and the DPRK (represented by the Minister), Saudi Arabia and Syria, Iran and Israel, Azerbaijan and Armenia, dozens of other countries.
    Conference program http://kanchukov-sa.livejournal.com/

    PS On the first day of the conference, a contract was signed to supply India with S-400 anti-aircraft missile systems.
    The question is - will the historic fraternization of the defense ministers of Iran and Israel take place tomorrow? laughing
    1. opus
      opus April 28 2016 00: 16
      +3
      Quote: Operator
      PS On the first day of the conference, a contract was signed to supply India with S-400 anti-aircraft missile systems.

      already wrote, I repeat.




      feel the difference, as they say

      Asphalt Russian and Soviet:


      Quote: Operator
      The question is - will historical fraternization take place tomorrow

      These are the things of the distant future.
      1. Operator
        Operator April 28 2016 10: 57
        -2
        You do not understand - it was sarcasm (see smiley).

        Regarding the situation with the supply of C-400: yesterday, the Minister of Defense of India publicly announced the conclusion of the contract, today the CEO of Rostec publicly denied it (price conditions are subject to additional agreement).

        PS Returning to the international conference - if the defense ministers of such diverse countries (and some of them are officially at war with each other) come to the capital of Russia, against which many of the participants imposed economic sanctions and increased the level of military confrontation, does this not mean that they came to Moscow to capitulate on honorable terms? bully
        1. opus
          opus April 28 2016 11: 17
          +1
          Quote: Operator
          You do not understand - it was sarcasm (see smiley).

          the emoticon was about the Iran / Ishrail tandem. I understand
          Quote: Operator
          On the situation with the supply of C-400: yesterday, the Minister of Defense of India publicly announced

          I wrote, cited, NOT DECLARED.
          The stupid journalist did not understand the message, the stupid glvared printed (interfax, ria), the half-stupid "author" / correspondent "topvar" reprinted.
          Our essence passed a commercial offer (offer) to India and WAIT for their reaction.
          Quote: Operator
          against which many of the participants imposed economic sanctions and increased the level of military confrontation, does this not mean that they came to Moscow capitulate on honorable terms?

          I doubt
          1. Operator
            Operator April 28 2016 12: 08
            -1
            At the Fifth Moscow Conference on International Security, the State Minister of Defense of India held talks yesterday with Deputy Minister of Defense Anatoly Antonov. Following the talks, a press briefing was held.

            Moscow. 27 April 2016. INTERFAX.RU
            India has signed a contract with Russia for the supply of S-400 anti-aircraft missile systems (SAM), said Indian State Secretary of Defense on Wednesday.
            “Yes, we have signed a contract for the supply of these systems,” the minister said, answering a question from Interfax.
            http://www.interfax.ru/world/505898

            PS I am waiting for your apologies to the "stupid / half-stupid" Russian journalists / editor-in-chief and authors / correspondents / editors of the topwar.ru portal
            1. opus
              opus April 28 2016 13: 05
              +1
              Quote: Operator
              “Yes, we have signed a contract for the supply of these systems,” the minister said, answering a question from Interfax.
              http://www.interfax.ru/ world / 505898


              I know this "nonsense"
              here zhurnalyug top var writes:

              http://topwar.ru/94596-indiya-zaklyuchila-kontrakt-s-rossiey-na-postavki-zrk-s-4
              00-triumf.html

              here is the answer
              http://topwar.ru/94596-indiya-zaklyuchila-kontrakt-s-rossiey-na-postavki-zrk-s-4

              00-triumf.html # comment-id-5832047

              I can’t say that the author of the article went wrong, or interfax or ria-news (both hats are still the same)
              in the original news looks like this:
              Russia makes formal S-400 offer to India


              Russia has formally offered its S-400 Triumph surface-to-air missile systems to India, a senior Russian defense official said on April 18.

              “The Federal Service has prepared a draft intergovernmental agreement on the supply of the S-400 systems to India and passed it on to our partners, so we are awaiting a response,” Vladimir Drozhzhov, deputy head of Russian Federal Service for Military-Technical Cooperation (FSMTC) told TASS on the sidelines of the Defexpo India 2016 exhibition in Delhi.

              The deal value is estimated to be $ 6 billion.

              The Triumph S-400 is a new-generation medium and long-range anti-aircraft missile system.

              At a distance of 250 miles the system can strike planes, while at a distance of 40 miles it can hit tactical ballistic targets flying at a speed of three miles per second, as well as cruise missiles and ballistic missiles.

              Russia and India were expected to sign an agreement on the sale of the systems in December 2015 when Indian Prime Minister Narendra Modi visited Moscow for an annual summit. Sources close to the situation tell RBTH that differences on the price held back the signing of an agreement. A deal is likely to be signed within the next few weeks, the sources add. Russia could also commence delivering the S-400 missile defense system to China by the end of the year.


              Russia officially proposed its anti-aircraft missile systems C-400 Triumph of India, said on April 18, a senior official of the Russian Ministry of Defense "Federal, his service has prepared a draft intergovernmental agreement on the supply of S-400 systems in India and handed it over to them, so we are awaiting a response," said Vladimir Drozhzhov, deputy head of the Russian Federal Service for Military-Technical Cooperation ( FSMTS)
              well and so on

              Agree " India signed a contract with Russia for the supply of the S-400 Triumph air defense system and
              "Russia prepared a proposal for India to sign a contract for the supply of S-400 " TWO GREAT DIFFERENCES

              Quote: Operator
              PS I'm waiting for your apology to the address

              -Do not wait
              -and they (zhurnalyugi) let no illusions
              1. opus
                opus April 28 2016 13: 09
                +1
                Quote: opus
                here is the answer

                1. Operator
                  Operator April 28 2016 13: 18
                  0
                  Dear Anton!

                  You will deal with the dates of messages:
                  - which everyone now refers to, including me, is dated by 27 number and its source is personally the Indian Minister who made a public statement at an official briefing;
                  - to which you refer, dated 18 number.

                  So apologies for you.
  • opus
    opus April 28 2016 14: 12
    +1
    Quote: Operator
    - which everyone refers to now, including me, is dated 27 by a number and

    Manohar Gopalkrishna Prabhu Parrikar where? when?






    Interfac is not very impressive
    1. Operator
      Operator April 28 2016 20: 28
      -1
      Quote: opus
      Interfac is not very impressive

      The Minister of State of India does not impress you,
      a briefing by the Russian Ministry of Defense does not impress you,
      the international agency Interfax does not impress you,
      you are impressed by the Indian site with the admin just jumping from the branch.
      Panyatna ...
      1. opus
        opus April 28 2016 23: 06
        +1
        Quote: Operator
        The Minister of State of India does not impress you,
        a briefing by the Russian Ministry of Defense does not impress you,

        did not hear the minister
        I didn’t see the briefing.
        is there a reference?
        Quote: Operator
        the international agency Interfax does not impress you,

        Interfac is not impressive
        Quote: Operator
        you are impressed by the Indian site with the admin just jumping from the branch.
        Panyatna.

        Any reliable will impress me.
        so far only a chatter of information sources not trustworthy.

        And I will be right. NOT WHAT CONTRACT RF-India for the supply of C-400 NO (and it can not be)
  • Skubudu
    Skubudu April 28 2016 15: 46
    0
    Of course, the mattresses are handsome, to their technically retarded allies, Penguins are sold ... And for themselves, they will re-open the conveyor and resume production of the F-22 ... in the USA everyone is fine, the manufacturer is booming, people get zp the state receives the best fighters in the world and taxes.
    F-35 will be purchased and used as a fighter only by countries that are not able to create their own fighter.
    1. opus
      opus April 28 2016 15: 50
      +1
      Quote: Skubudu
      Mattresses are certainly handsome

      You criticize "mattresses" or admire their entrepreneurship7
  • Skubudu
    Skubudu April 28 2016 16: 23
    -1
    Quote: opus
    Quote: Skubudu
    Mattresses are certainly handsome

    You criticize "mattresses" or admire their entrepreneurship7

    In general, I have a bad attitude towards the Yankees, but I respect their ability to conduct business in their favor and of course their ability to produce cool weapons.
    1. yehat
      yehat April 29 2016 11: 14
      0
      What do you think we could do with their weapons resources?
      I’ll tell you a little: with the budget of the US defense, we could begin a colossal Buran-level program every year.
      1. voyaka uh
        voyaka uh April 30 2016 23: 30
        0
        Their military budget does not exceed 4% of their GDP.
        1. yehat
          yehat 4 May 2016 09: 25
          0
          this information is also in topic as the density of penguins in Antarctica
          absolute values