Military Review

Blitzkrieg tanks in combat (part of 1)

215
In the mid-90s, when I was still publishing my magazine Tankomaster, the editorial board of the journal Technika-youth suggested that I make a book for them about armored vehicles in the war between Germany and Poland and France. I had to go to the archives and get photos through the Imperial Military Archive in London, where there is a special photo fund, and pick up photos in Samara, where there is a photo archive of the Communist Party with interesting photos, but something did not work out. So everything in their editorial office was gone, like the book “Libyan swing” about Tanks in Libya. But some, and still touchingly printed on a typewriter, materials remained. And why not publish them today?


Blitzkrieg tanks in combat (part of 1)

1 September 1939 of

On Friday, 1 of September, 1939 of the year is equal to 4 hours of 45 minutes, the German battleship Schleswig-Goldstein, who was in the Polish territorial waters with a “goodwill visit,” opened fire on the barracks of the Polish garrison on the Westerplatte peninsula, and one hour later the German troops crossed the Polish land frontier. True, at the beginning it was planned to start fighting a little earlier, namely, 26 August 1939 of the year, but on 8.00 25 August, Hitler postponed the attack on 31 August to 4.00. However, this period could not be sustained for a number of reasons, so the Second World War began on September 1 with a provocative attack by SS men dressed in Polish uniforms on a radio station in the German border town of Gleiwitz.


Poland no longer exists and it does not need a border!

Pre-Hitler agreed on the division of Polish territory with the Soviet leadership in the person of I.V. Stalin, so that only England and France, who, fulfilling their allied obligations to Poland, on September 3 declared war on Germany could oppose him. Declared, but ... did not fight as it should, because of what the fighting on the Western Front from the autumn of 1939 to the spring of 1940 of the year were called "strange war". Generally speaking, Poland had quite a bit of strength. The Polish army numbered about one million soldiers in 50 infantry divisions, 1 motobrigade, and 9 cavalry brigades that could be supported by 4 300 fire on the ground and 400 combat aircraft in the air. As for the "main striking force of ground troops" - tanks, then in 1 September 1939 years in the Polish armored forces (Bron Pancerna) there 219 tankettes TC-3, 13 TKF, 169 TKS, 120 7TR tanks, 45 R35 and FT French tanks -17, 34 English tanks "Vikkers-6 T", 8 armored vehicles WZ.29 and WZ.34. In addition, a number of different types of armored vehicles were located in training units and in enterprises. The 32 of the FT 17 tank was also included in the states of armored trains and could be used as armored vehicles, i.e. in total, there were about 800 combat vehicles. German troops, invading Poland simultaneously from the north, west and south, numbered 1 850 000 soldiers, 10 000 artillery guns and 2 085 combat aircraft. The attack involved seven tank and four light divisions, in reserve which had two tank battalions, along with 144 tanks.


1939 G. "Friendship, sealed with blood."

The number of tanks in the divisions (TD) ranged from 308 to 375 units each, although in 10 No. (TD) and the Kempf tank group were 154 and 150, respectively. In light divisions, the number of vehicles ranged from 74 to 156 tanks. In general, the number of tanks abandoned by Poland reached 2 586, although not all of them were first-line tanks, that is, combat ones, as 215 of them belonged to commander vehicles. Heinz Guderian wrote about 2 800 tanks, but in both cases the numbers are far incommensurable. As for the distribution by type, it was as follows: light tanks Pz. 1 - 1 145, Pz.2 - 1 223, Pz.35 (t) - 76; medium Pz.3 - 98 and Pz.lY- 211; 215 commander tanks, three flamethrower and five self-propelled guns, which at that time were just beginning to enter the German tank forces.


"And we have inside like this!"

Their main opponent was the Polish tank 7ТР, created in the same way as the Soviet T-26, on the basis of the British tank “Vickers - 6 t”, but equipped with a diesel engine (by the way, for the first time in stories tank building!) and produced in two versions: machine gun and cannon. Machine guns, like the T - 26 of the first editions, were copied by British tanks and had two towers with machine guns, while the gun version had one tower by the Swedish company Bofors and the 37 mm gun of the same company arr. 1936 Tank had good performance, but the maximum thickness of armor on it did not exceed 17 mm, which in 1939 was completely inadequate. It turned out that these machines could successfully fight against the German light tanks Pz.lA and Pz.lB with their machine gun weapons and armor 13 mm thick, as well as Pz.2, 20 mm gun and mm armor XMUMX, but already against the Czech Pz.14 (t) and Pz.35 (t) were quite difficult for them to act, since Pz.III and Pz.lY exceeded them in almost all indicators. But even these machines from the Poles, there were only 38, since the production of tanks in Poland in the 120-ies was extremely small.

Thus, the main force of the Polish armor were tankettes, armed with machine guns and impotent against the German armor. However, just before the war, the machine gun on the 24 machines was replaced with an 20-mm automatic cannon, which, at a distance of 500 - 600 m, penetrated armor with a thickness of up to 25 - 25 mm, and, therefore, could destroy tanks Pz.l and Pz.II, but there were so few of them that they couldn’t play any significant role. Quite actively used in the battles and Polish armored vehicles, who had both machine gun and cannon weapons. However, there were only about 100, while the German forces involved 308 heavy and 718 light BA, as well as 68 armored personnel carriers. However, the Poles accepted the battle and fought with the courage of the doomed. Under favorable conditions, their tanks achieved individual successes, but on the whole it could not affect the outcome of the collision.


“And why are they standing together on the dais?”

The Polish army turned out to be the army of “yesterday” and was captured by the positional tactical installations of the past war. It completely lacked anti-tank artillery and automatic weapons, and the military equipment that was developed at the beginning of the 30-s, by September 1939 had already become obsolete. That of the fact that even 5 September, one of the 7TRs during a counterblow of Polish troops near Piotrków - Tribunalski knocked down five German Pz.l tanks at once, and that even Polish armored vehicles WZ.29, armed with short-barreled French guns, were able to destroy several tanks of this type. And let the Polish tankettes with 20-mm 14 September tools 1939, supporting the attack on Brokhov, were also able to hit several German cars.


Oh, that's why ... They are watching the passage of troops.

It is important that the Poles lost their war even before the first shots hit it! After all, the Polish army tried to cover its border on the front from Lithuania to the Carpathians for the length of 1500 km, which was an absolutely impossible task for it and simply could not end in defeat. The Germans, concentrating on the tip of the main attacks of the 5 tank, 6 motorized, 48 infantry divisions, and having complete air superiority, managed to very quickly achieve superiority on the ground. The Poles attacked with small groups of tanks, while the Germans used them massively. Therefore, even achieving success, the Poles were forced to constantly retreat, fearing an adversary's bypass movement and strikes in the flank and rear. But even in this case, Poland could well have resisted somewhat longer if, on Sunday 17 September 1939, the Soviet Red Army had not entered its territory from the east.


"What are these powerful Russian BA!"

All this was explained by the need to “protect and liberate the western regions of Ukraine and Belarus,” but for the Poles it meant only that they now had to deal with two enemies at once instead of one! The Soviet forces in the Ukrainian and Belorussian fronts numbered 1 500 000 soldiers, 6 191 tanks, 1 800 combat aircraft and 9 140 artillery guns. Therefore, 18 of September, they took Vilna, then Grodno, 22 of September, Lviv, and 23 took it to the Bug River, for which, by agreement between Hitler and Stalin, there was already a “zone of responsibility” of Nazi Germany. According to our domestic sources, the Red Army in this campaign lost the 42 tank and the BA, and 52 was killed and the 81 tankman was wounded. However, Polish authors believe that the losses of the Soviet armored vehicles from artillery fire and infantry hand grenades amounted to about 200 combat vehicles of various types. German losses in the Polish company were 10 000 killed and 30 000 injured. The Poles, respectively, lost 66 000 and 133 000 people, and 420 000 were captured!


Polish prisoners of war and a representative of the Red Cross.

Around 1 000 combat vehicles were disabled. According to German sources, the number of tanks that could not be restored was as follows: Pz.l - 89, Pz.II - 83, Pz.III - 26, Pz.lY - 19, Pz. 38 (t) - 7 and Pz.35 (t).


Smoke, comrade, smoke! Don't be so gloomy. 22 June 41 is far away!

Thus, the Polish campaign was rather expensive for Germany. Therefore, about any further offensive to the East, as Molotov and Stalin repeatedly stated later, was out of the question at this time. Moreover, in this case, France and England remained in the rear of Germany, and the Poles themselves, despite the surrender announced on 28 on September, still resisted in a number of places and finally capitulated only on October 6!


Wedge TKS and dead tankman. 1939

By the way, the Germans used the trophy Polish armored vehicles quite actively. In particular, in the 5-th tank division it was captured tankettes TC and TKS, and in the 11-th several tanks 7ТР. On the 7TR tank in Polish camouflage, but with German crosses on the tower and the 400 number, the commander of the 4 company of the 1 tank regiment, Lieutenant Fritz Kramer, fought on the Polish car after his own tank was hit. The victory parade 5 October in Warsaw was also attended trophy 7TR (approximately 18), which were then transferred to 203-in tank battalion and one 7TR with frontal armor, pierced 20-mm projectile, even exhibited in 1940 year at the international fair in Leipzig. By the way, it was then that the mass media of Germany and Italy laid the foundation for the popular myth that Polish Lancers allegedly attacked Hitler’s tanks with bare sabers and picks at the ready.



The fact that this myth was tenacious is evidenced by the fact that it was again cited as an example in the January issue of the Vokrug Sveta magazine in 2003, although in reality there was nothing like this. In addition, the Polish cavalry did not need to rush at the German tanks with swords naked, as they had 37-mm anti-tank guns of the company "Bofors" (mod. 1936 g.). At the same time, the charter directly instructed them to fight with tanks in dismounted order, while the horses were to be in hiding. But the stupid courage of the defeated always takes revenge on the vanity of the winner. Therefore, the "duck" was launched and can be considered a very good example of information warfare, often even more effective than the most successful direct confrontation with enemy tanks.


Pz.III - workhorse Pancervaffe.

Immediately after the Polish campaign, taking advantage of the fact that the “strange war” was still continuing, Hitler now decided to launch an offensive in the West, but his generals still managed to convince him of the need to replenish the army with manpower and equipment. An invasion plan was developed in France, the main condition for the realization of which was the throw of Hitler’s tanks through the Ardennes, bypassing the Maginot line fortifications built on the border. Heinz Guderian assured the command that such a breakthrough was quite feasible and thereby determined the fate of France for the whole five years: May 9, the Wehrmacht 1940 again went on the offensive, now on the Western front. As expected, the German tanks quickly broke through to the intended targets, the resistance of the French troops was broken, while the British expeditionary force was surrounded by German troops in the Dunkirk area.


Destroyed Polish FT-17. 1939

Already May 22, Guderian’s tanks reached the Atlantic Ocean and captured Boulogne, after which it would be most logical to continue the attack on Dunkirk in order to capture the British forces there. But for some reason Hitler banned it, historians continue to argue about the reasons for this decision. Many are inclined to Churchill's opinion that Hitler thus sought to incline the British to peace and bring England out of the war. Anyway, this solution cannot be called reasonable in any way, since the most compliant adversary is an adversary that has been completely defeated! All this time in the Soviet press did not stop praising military assistance to Hitler from the USSR. Therefore, Hitler was convinced that he would have enough forces to wage this war, as well as Soviet fuel. As a result, 22 June 1940, the French government capitulated to Hitler, which for the second time proved the superiority of the German doctrine to the whole world, because this time there was no talk of technical superiority in tanks. The fact is that for the capture of France, the Germans prepared only 2 500 machines, of which Pz.III was 329, and Pz.lY- 280. All the others were used simply because there was nothing to replace them and, consequently, the truly modern tanks from the Nazis, there were only ... 600 units!


Czech tanks, German crosses ...

As for the French, from their side, the Germans opposed the 416 new 20-ton tanks "Soma" S-35 and 384 32-ton B-1 and B-1-BIS, all 800 machines. They were replenished with Renault tanks D1 and D2, which even though they were slightly inferior, still belonged to the medium class, as well as around 2 300 light tanks R-35 / R-40, H-35 / H-39 and FCM36, constructed in the middle of the 30-ies, and approximately 2 000 upgraded Renault FT-17 second tier. Organized by the French tanks were reduced in the division of armored vehicles (Divisions Tegeres Mecanigues-DLM), which were supposed to operate as part of the cavalry corps and counted on the 174 machine. Tanks “Hotchkiss” H-35 were part of the light cavalry divisions, which also included armored cars and motorized infantry.
(To be continued)
Author:
215 comments
Information
Dear reader, to leave comments on the publication, you must sign in.
  1. max73
    max73 April 22 2016 06: 17
    +17
    read ....... there were big doubts about the competence of the author. then he has 7 tank divisions invading Poland, then 5 ..))) then the tank is "exported" to the exhibition, when you need to use the word "displayed", etc. ...
    1. tchoni
      tchoni April 22 2016 07: 05
      +31
      It's just that the author considers himself a "Keldysh" in terms of tanks and believes that he can afford it: not waste his time on details and ironically comment on joint photographs of German and Soviet officers. laughing
      1. max73
        max73 April 22 2016 07: 10
        +17
        you know, it resembles an abstract of a not-so-happy student ... information from public resources is pulled, even the style is different ... (subjectively)
        1. Boatsman_Palych
          Boatsman_Palych April 22 2016 16: 20
          +18
          And this is a summary of Anglo-Saxon writings on the theme of WWII. Therefore, parts are present not in literary but in direct translation. From there the crocodile tears for poor poor Poles and stab them in the back. And it will never be about Munich, about negotiations in the summer of 1939 with the Ango-French and about the battles at Khalkhin Gol going on at SAME TIME. The Naglosaks and their singers from our traitors really wanted Russia to act according to their plan, and not in its own interests.
        2. Akuzenka
          Akuzenka 12 November 2016 00: 06
          +1
          And what do you want from a resunoid, soooleg? Logic? So they never had it.
          He was a rezunoid, he was cured on the word "decaville". He laughed at him. He mocked people who did not understand him, but he did not explain what it was. When I found out what it was, I laughed at how simple and complicated everything is. And rezun - (obscene word).
      2. Lopatov
        Lopatov April 22 2016 09: 29
        +5
        What to do ... He is really a guy who is rummaging around in this topic. Who knows who to write articles in "Equipment and Armament" will not be invited. This is not counting the "Technique-youth", which got into the "armored" theme even during the Soviet era.
        1. VSkilled
          VSkilled April 22 2016 09: 54
          +29
          Exactly...

          “Anyhow, who to write articles” - they really will not be invited.

          And, they will invite an ideologically "right" oriented, and, without a doubt - generously sponsored.

          That is why the articles of Mr. "as it were Shpakovsky" (as he himself admitted, so as not to "shine" his real name), are focused strictly on the interests of the West.

          And everything, of course - "strictly within the framework of historical objectivity."

          Well, you see, Alexander Nevsky did not arrange a massacre, but - so ... "he took part in a minor skirmish."

          Now, you see, "evil Stalin", against the "unfortunate Poles" - for Hitler "opened the second front"!

          Like, but if he hadn’t opened it, then the Poles would have - wow, how they would have fought! Maybe even - they would have smashed this very Hitler, well - just to smithereens!

          Yes Yes Yes!

          If only ... this "evil Stalin" did not "spoil" everything ...

          In general, with each article, it is more and more noticeable how Mr. "kind of Shpakovsky" diligently fulfills the "grants".

          Representatives of this people, who traditionally so diligently hide their real names, have a no less traditional craving for "despicable metal".

          However, the mentality ...
          1. kalibr
            April 22 2016 10: 08
            -9
            You somehow promised me a lot of money so that I wouldn't write here. And where are they? As for everything else, for such "nationalistically oriented" citizens, I have specially published an article "Missing in action" here. Read ... And about promises ... it's not good to promise and not to give!
          2. Uncle
            Uncle April 22 2016 14: 33
            -2
            Quote: VSkilled
            If only ... this "evil Stalin" did not "spoil" everything ...

            But didn’t Stalin and Hitler divide Poland? After all, Vilno is now in Lithuania, Grodno in Belarus, Lviv in Ukraine.
            1. sibiryouk
              sibiryouk April 22 2016 23: 12
              +5
              Now let the Poles with claims turn to LITHUANIA, UKRAINE and BELARUS !!!
            2. Severomor
              Severomor April 23 2016 01: 52
              +13
              Quote: Uncle
              But didn’t Stalin and Hitler divide Poland?


              We teach history .... although it is taught obliquely, no one has seen the secret protocol))))))

              .... "We could not do that with Poland. The Poles behaved irreconcilably. We negotiated with the British and French before talking with the Germans: if they do not interfere with our troops in Czechoslovakia and Poland, then, of course, things will go well for us They refused, so we had to take some partial measures, we had to move the German troops away.

              If we had not come out to meet the Germans in 1939, they would have occupied all of Poland to the border. Therefore, we agreed with them. They had to agree. This is their initiative - the Non-Aggression Pact. We could not defend Poland because she did not want to deal with us. Well, since Poland does not want, and the war is on the nose, let us at least that part of Poland, which, we believe, certainly belongs to the Soviet Union "

              25.04.1975, 30.09.1981
              Ribbentrop - Molotov
              - Western radio stations talk a lot about you, scolding Stalin and you.
              “It would be worse if praised,” says Molotov avariciously.

              09.07.1971
              - I had to raise a toast to Hitler as the leader of Germany.
              “Is it there in Germany?”
              “Here at dinner.” They raised a toast to Stalin, I - to Hitler. In a narrow circle. This is diplomacy. (At the reception in honor of Ribbentrop, Molotov led the table. When he gave the floor to Stalin, he made a toast “to our People’s Commissar for Railways Lazar Kaganovich,” who was sitting right there at the table, through the chair from the fascist foreign minister. “And Ribbentrop had to drink for me! ”- L. M. Kaganovich told me. - F.Ch.)

              17.07.1975
              - In the West they persistently write that in 1939 a secret agreement was signed with the agreement ...
              - Nothing.
              - Did not have?
              - Did not have. No, it's absurd.
              - Now, probably, we can talk about this.
              - Of course, there are no secrets. In my opinion, rumors are purposely spread out in order to somehow soak it up. No, no, in my opinion, it is still very clean and there could be nothing like this agreement. I stood very close to this, actually dealt with this matter, I can firmly say that this is, of course, a fiction.

              Chuev Felix - One Hundred and Forty Conversations with Molotov
              1. PHANTOM-AS
                PHANTOM-AS April 23 2016 02: 00
                +1
                Quote: Severomor
                We teach history .... although it is taught obliquely, no one has seen the secret protocol))))))

                Quote: Severomor
                Chuev Felix - One Hundred and Forty Conversations with Molotov

                Great, Severomor! Keep it up! good soldier
              2. kalibr
                April 24 2016 08: 31
                -3
                The Decree of the Congress of People's Deputies of the USSR of December 24 of 1989 of the year No. 979-1 “On the Political and Legal Assessment of the Soviet-German Non-Aggression Treaty of the 1939 of the Year” states:

                6. The Congress notes that negotiations with Germany on secret protocols were conducted by Stalin and Molotov secretly from the Soviet people, the Central Committee of the All-Union Communist Party of Bolsheviks and the whole party, the Supreme Council and the Government of the USSR, these protocols were removed from the ratification procedures. Thus, the decision to sign them was essentially and in form an act of personal power and did not in any way reflect the will of the Soviet people, who were not responsible for this conspiracy.
                7. The Congress of People's Deputies of the USSR condemns the fact of signing the “secret additional protocol” of August 23 1939 and other secret agreements with Germany. The Congress recognizes secret protocols as legally insolvent and invalid from the moment of their signing.

                The protocols did not create a new legal basis for relations between the Soviet Union and third countries, but were used by Stalin and his entourage to present ultimatums and force pressure on other states in violation of their legal obligations.
                1. BarakHuseynovich
                  BarakHuseynovich April 26 2016 04: 23
                  0
                  Quote: kalibr
                  December 24, 1989
                2. BarakHuseynovich
                  BarakHuseynovich April 26 2016 04: 23
                  0
                  Quote: kalibr
                  December 24, 1989
                3. goose
                  goose April 28 2016 14: 09
                  +2
                  Quote: kalibr
                  The Congress recognizes secret protocols as legally insolvent and invalid from the moment of their signing.

                  You are aware that it was all based on the results of the Yakovlev Commission, without presenting real documents. The only evidence of a secret agreement is the words of Khrushchev at the time of his company against the cult of Stalin.
                  As I was already tired of discussing a case without corpus delicti.
            3. The comment was deleted.
            4. The comment was deleted.
            5. KaPToC
              KaPToC 27 October 2016 12: 19
              +1
              Quote: Uncle
              But didn’t Stalin and Hitler divide Poland? After all, Vilno is now in Lithuania, Grodno in Belarus, Lviv in Ukraine.

              Whoa, where are our cons? To ban this Russophobe - "Uncle" - FOREVER. Go repent before the pshek, and for one before the Balts and rodents.
        2. sibiryouk
          sibiryouk April 22 2016 23: 08
          +1
          Now in Technics and Armament, the main author of the armored vehicles is Suvorov, he himself is a former tanker.
        3. Andrey NM
          Andrey NM April 24 2016 06: 35
          +5
          Author Vyacheslav Shpakovsky


          Pole? Then the message of this scribble is clear ...
      3. Proxima
        Proxima April 22 2016 15: 32
        +18
        Quote: tchoni
        It's just that the author considers himself a "Keldysh" in terms of tanks

        The article seems to be about tanks, but in fact the author is pushing the topic, they say, what a bad Soviet Union, which together with Nazi Germany made the partition of "long-suffering" Poland. By the way, these "unfortunates" did not hesitate to use CHEMICAL WEAPONS (mustard gas was used on September 8 - the only use of "chemistry" in open combat for the entire period of the WWII war)! ANTI-ADVICE in your scribbling smacks over the top! However, this is your own business, but why hang noodles based on half-truths !? Note that a Soviet soldier entered the "Polish" land on September 17, and Warsaw was already completely surrounded on September 14. From that moment on, the "defense" of the capital no longer had any significance - neither strategic nor political. Moreover, two days before that, the Germans had already been in Lviv! But, these are still flowers! On September 16, the "ticks" closed in the city of Chelm! Do you know where? - a few kilometers from Starovoitovo - the modern Ukrainian border. All the remnants of the Polish formations located between the Vistula and the Bug were surrounded. What can you order our leadership to do in this situation? Poking your finger further in your nose? Then the next "pincers" would have closed directly at the old border. Understand that at the time our troops entered the territory of western Belarus and Ukraine, according to FACT, neither the Polish army nor the Polish government existed. Still not a lot, and nothing would have to be "divided". Remember, any section of the territory is always done by STRATEGIES, PROCEEDING FROM AN ACTUAL SITUATION, and not by diplomats, somewhere in the backstage offices, over a cup of coffee.
        1. sibiryouk
          sibiryouk April 22 2016 23: 18
          -4
          The Molotov-Ribentrop Pact specifically stipulated that the USSR would enter Poland after September 15 and a line of demarcation was drawn between the Reich and the USSR in Poland in a secret application!
          1. Severomor
            Severomor April 23 2016 01: 56
            +3
            Quote: sibiryouk
            and in a secret application


            And who saw him ?????? ))))))) Secreters .... everything was classified, but someone found out something and raced ...... by the bumps
            1. kalibr
              April 24 2016 08: 34
              -2
              The Soviet original of the protocol was stored in the General Department of the Central Committee of the CPSU (now the Archive of the President of the Russian Federation), Special Folder, package No. 34. The scientific publication was held in the journal "New and Contemporary History", No. 1 for the 1993 year.
              1. Severomor
                Severomor April 24 2016 22: 56
                +9
                Quote: kalibr
                The Soviet original of the protocol was stored in the General Department of the Central Committee of the CPSU (now the Archive of the President of the Russian Federation), Special Folder, package No. 34. The scientific publication was held in the journal "New and Contemporary History", No. 1 for the 1993 year.


                Quote: kalibr
                In the Decree of the Congress of People's Deputies of the USSR of December 24, 1989 No. 979-1 "On the Political and Legal Assessment of the Soviet-German Nonaggression Pact of 1939"


                1989, 90, 91, 92, 93 - the best time of the liberal traitors. And the so-called. "special folders" and "secret packages" are not fashion, they are a fetish at the suggestion of Yakovlev and K *.

                Day and night smashed Stalin
                He’s so and so a bit,
                But only the dross flew off -
                As stood, it stands !!!!

                By the way, documents about Katyn appeared at the same time. Also from the filing of the traitor and scum Yakovlev.

                So it remains to be "Silence and repent !!!!!". Before everyone !!!!
                Before the Poles that ghouls and sadists were shot; before the Germans that did not give up in the 41st and about 100500 raped Germans; before the Hungarians that they didn’t take prisoners near Voronezh.
                Well, the Anglo-Saxons, those saints, here we repent for life !!!!!!!

                We read "Dunno on the Moon" - "Have fun every day, have fun, eat, drink ...". Whatever the day, the show programs, what not a week, the concerts and lights ...
                In general, a holiday every day, have fun, eat and drink - the main thing is not to think about anything.
              2. goose
                goose April 28 2016 14: 23
                +4
                Quote: kalibr
                A special folder, package No. 34. A scientific publication took place in the journal "New and Contemporary History", No. 1 for 1993.

                Right with two different texts, and published? What nonsense !!!
                This is just a swindle. The historical value of this publication is zero, because there is no confirmation of the historicity of the presented document.
                The only mention of the protocol is from the words of Khrushchev, who could neither see nor enter into it.
                For your information:
                The demarcation line was established along the Curzon line. Everything that the RSFSR lost after 1918 was considered by the Bolsheviks as "temporarily occupied territories." incl. Zap. Ukraine, Belarus and the Baltic republics. All this was grabbed at the moment of the greatest weakness of the state. Poland has always been recognized by the Bolsheviks, but within the borders at the time of its creation. And it was the Curzon line that was legally part of the only document that was recognized by the world community before the Second World War.
                1. Visitor
                  Visitor 25 October 2016 09: 21
                  +4
                  Quite rightly noticed about the Curzon line. And the best confirmation of this is that after the German invasion of Poland, England and France, fulfilling their obligations to Poland, declared war on Germany, violating the internationally recognized borders of Poland. But the USSR was not declared, because Western Ukraine and Belarus were east of the Curzon line, which was the internationally recognized border of Poland. The USSR did not violate it, therefore, it was not legally an aggressor, and there was no reason for declaring war.
          2. The comment was deleted.
          3. 10 inches
            10 inches April 25 2016 18: 50
            +3
            then the secret application that the full linden was made public. They even didn’t bother to arrange it according to all the rules. All of this is chewed and decomposed for a long time, if you were interested you would find it.
          4. goose
            goose April 28 2016 14: 15
            +1
            Quote: sibiryouk
            The Molotov-Ribentrop Pact specifically stipulated that the USSR would enter Poland after September 15 and a line of demarcation was drawn between the Reich and the USSR in Poland in a secret application!

            And that is why, after the occupation of Poland, it took twice to get together for negotiations to approve the line of demarcation?
          5. Visitor
            Visitor 25 October 2016 09: 16
            +3
            Please quote. particular place from the Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact, Poland is also mentioned. Do not you find that your links to secret protocols strongly resemble the remarks of the unforgettable Jen Psaki about the evidence that is, but it is impossible to present them? And then, why is the non-aggression and mutual assistance agreement between Germany and the USSR worse than the similar Hitler-Skoropadsky agreement concluded in 1936? Or Poland’s participation in the partition together with Germany of Czechoslovakia (the Poles successfully repelled Tesinsky volost). Just because it obscures the bright image of Poland as a victim of the USSR and Germany?
    2. Lopatov
      Lopatov April 22 2016 09: 24
      0
      You just read it inattentively. The author writes about seven tank divisions in total, and five of them, which the Germans used "focusing on the spearhead of the main blows"
    3. kitamo
      kitamo April 22 2016 10: 26
      +9
      Quote: max73
      then he has 7 tank divisions invading Poland, then 5 ..))) then the tank is "exported" to the exhibition, when you need to use the word "exposed", etc.



      Yeah ... and his courage * takes revenge * instead of * flatters *:

      But the stupid courage of the defeated always avenges the pride of the winner
    4. Malkor
      Malkor April 22 2016 17: 02
      +7
      Do not confuse wet with smelly. Putin, too, greets Parashenko and takes pictures. Two hundred and fifty years ago, we divided Poland three times with the Germans. If it weren’t for the USSR, Poland wouldn’t exist now, but like Hohland.
      1. Visitor
        Visitor 25 October 2016 09: 24
        +2
        Strictly speaking, sections of Rzeczpospolita were carried out by Prussia, Austria and the Republic of Ingushetia. But for some reason the Poles repent for these sections exclusively to Russia. There are no historical claims against the Germans and Austrians. Why? Because only Russophobia is paid, IMHO. Phobias against Autriaks and Germans if they exist. it’s free, and therefore it is not voiced aloud.
    5. Doomph
      Doomph 27 October 2016 08: 31
      0
      I'm afraid to assume that the author will write about the reasons for the defeat of the Warsaw Uprising ... Again, these insidious Russians.
  2. Press 314
    Press 314 April 22 2016 06: 22
    +15
    Something breathed over the years of "perestroika". Indeed, I wrote - why not publish. "And I'm glad for any money!" (KVN)
  3. X Y Z
    X Y Z April 22 2016 06: 51
    +26
    The article left an ambivalent impression. On the one hand, there seems to be sufficient argumentation and numerical data, and on the other, some playfully sarcastic captions under the photo, hinting at long-refuted myths, such as a joint "parade", etc. In addition, the author is simply obliged to know that the myth of the horse The attack of the Pomeranian Lancers on German tanks did not appear out of nowhere, but was taken from the memoirs of G. Guderian. However, there are opinions that this is not a myth at all and that there were real episodes in other sectors of the front. Also doubtful is the passage about the possible further resistance of the Poles if the Red Army had not struck. This statement is intertwined with the contemporary "research" of Polish historians who seek to blame us for their defeat. And on this "a little longer" whole theories about the far-reaching prospects of resistance arise. The article completely ignored the Poles' lack of reliable communications and, accordingly, the ability to normally control troops, which led to the collapse of the defense. Even the heroic and successful actions of the Polish troops in some sectors, under these conditions, did not lead to any real tactical gains. The Red Army entered Poland when the question of some kind of organized and led by the power structures of Poland to repulse the German troops had already been resolved and further delay could have been a significant loss.
    1. kalibr
      April 22 2016 09: 27
      +13
      Many Polish military leaders did leave the troops entrusted to them, just like the generals at Saddam Hussein, which can be regarded as desertion: Stefan Domb-Bernacki (twice - as the commander of the Prussians and the Northern Front), Kazimierz Fabrice (Karpaty army), Juliusz Rummel (Lodz Army), Vladislav Boncha-Uzdovsky (28th Infantry Division), as well as Colonel Edward Doyan-Surovka (left his 2th Infantry Division at the time of a nervous breakdown). No decisions were made on the actions of these commanders by the commander in chief. But everything is simply impossible to describe.
      1. Monster_Fat
        Monster_Fat April 22 2016 10: 32
        +3
        The same thing happened during the so-called "Warsaw Uprising".
        1. Visitor
          Visitor 25 October 2016 09: 30
          +1
          This is a separate song. It was a pure gamble, and, IMHO, a provocation of the command of the AK. The uprising was launched unprepared, in secret hope for the help of the Red Army, which, as always, was to save the screwed up allies, starting the offensive not according to readiness, but according to the wishes of the Poles. the British, the Americans. So it was later in the Ardennes, when Churchill personally wrote a letter to Stalin with a request for an immediate strike in the east, for the second Dunkirk was brewing. And Zhukov struck in Silesia earlier than planned, not fully tightening reserves, and not counted. how many extra victims it cost the spacecraft, and how many allies survived thanks to this.
      2. sibiryouk
        sibiryouk April 22 2016 23: 24
        +5
        According to the recollections of Polish soldiers, almost the entire highest command after SEPTEMBER 10- RUN!
    2. goose
      goose April 28 2016 14: 28
      +4
      Quote: XYZ
      The article left an ambivalent impression. On the one hand, there seems to be sufficient argumentation and numerical data, and on the other, some playfully sarcastic captions under the photo, hinting at long-refuted myths, such as a joint "parade", etc. In addition, the author is simply obliged to know that the myth of the horse The attack of the Pomeranian Lancers on German tanks did not appear out of nowhere, but was taken from the memoirs of G. Guderian. However, there are opinions that this is not a myth at all and that there were real episodes in other sectors of the front.

      1. Rezun’s method 1 in 1. A few numbers, any authenticity, then stuffing any lies.
      2. Such a fight really took place, only the author is not in the know. The cavalry attacked the German unit in an equestrian formation at a halt WITHOUT TANK, and actually defeated the Germans. The tanks, which were located several kilometers nearby, counterattacked later the cavalry and defeated it, respectively.
  4. aszzz888
    aszzz888 April 22 2016 06: 56
    +7
    On Friday, September 1, 1939, at 4 hours 45 minutes, the German battleship Schleswig-Goldstein, who was in the Polish territorial waters with a “goodwill visit”, opened fire on the barracks of the Polish garrison on the Westerplat peninsula, and after one hour of this the German troops crossed the Polish land border

    This fact is undeniable. And modern Poles, we should remember this.
    1. 97110
      97110 April 22 2016 10: 38
      +3
      Quote: aszzz888
      This fact is undeniable.
      Yes, the brain helpfully sculpts a series of battleships: "Schleswig - Goldstein", "Bismarck", "Tirpitz". Why not embellish the boring text by writing: grandfather of the German navy, battleship ... Just as close to the truth ...
      1. alebor
        alebor April 22 2016 11: 13
        +6
        In general, what kind of Schleswig is this - "Goldstein" is? The fascists, being anti-Semites, could hardly call their warship that way. smile
        The second part of the name was Holstein, in honor of the land of Schleswig-Holstein in northern Germany.
        1. cast iron
          cast iron April 22 2016 13: 49
          +4
          It will be a revelation and a breakdown for you, but many so-called "Jewish" surnames are actually German.
          1. Alexey RA
            Alexey RA April 22 2016 16: 15
            +4
            Quote: cast iron
            It will be a revelation and a breakdown for you, but many so-called "Jewish" surnames are actually German.

            Nevertheless, battleship still called "Schleswig-Holstein".

            However, the names of German ships are often confused ...
            "“Spee is the admiral and ship. Scheer is also an admiral and also a ship, only bigger. Speer is a candidate for the Reichsministers, NOT a ship, presumably their illegitimate son ”". © comrade Dart and his AAF for HOI on snowball.ru smile
      2. The comment was deleted.
      3. yehat
        yehat April 22 2016 15: 49
        +2
        well, in his role he was no less dangerous than the battleship.
        so I don’t see the need for clarification
        however, Finnish Väinemäinen abruptly fired on our territory
        1. Alexey RA
          Alexey RA April 22 2016 17: 15
          +2
          Quote: yehat
          however, Finnish Väinemäinen abruptly fired on our territory

          Not ours, but ours. For the USSR only leased this territory for a period of 30 years. smile
  5. The comment was deleted.
  6. bionik
    bionik April 22 2016 09: 00
    +7
    Armored vehicles of the 7th Panzer Wehrmacht Division (7. Panzer-Division) on the march in the area of ​​Abbeville (Abbeville) France. In the foreground are three tanks Pz.Kpfw. 38 (t). Behind them in the far row is the commander tank Pz.BefWg.III. To the left is a group of tanks Pz.Kpfw.II Ausf. B.
    1. yehat
      yehat April 22 2016 15: 50
      +3
      many "analysts" only look at tanks, but look at the background of these tanks - a continuous wave of cars. It was in the active reinforcement units that the strength of the German tank units was.
  7. Monster_Fat
    Monster_Fat April 22 2016 09: 05
    +16
    The author is named "Shpakovsky" ... "Shpak" is Ukrainian for "starling". From this we can conclude that the author has Ukrainian-Polish roots. This is what I mean, but to the fact that the author clearly gravitates towards the "Polish-Ukrainian" view of the Second World War and therefore stuffed photographs into the article about the "Soviet-German" capture of the "unfortunate", "innocent" and so "small", such a "democratic" Poland. This message was disguised as "Blitzkrieg tanks in battle" -ag ... another "Suvorovite-rezunovite" ...
    1. kalibr
      April 22 2016 09: 21
      -8
      You are inattentive and, apparently, too selectively viewing materials on VO. Otherwise, you would have noticed that an article entitled “Missing in Trace” was published here especially for fans of “nationalist roots”. Look ...
      1. cast iron
        cast iron April 22 2016 13: 51
        +15
        We carefully read your inappropriate signatures under photographs of Soviet and German soldiers and officers. This is what you betrayed yourself with your head.
        And also your inventions in the style of "insidious Stalin" opened the second front and therefore the Poles lost the war. Oh well. They lost it in the first week. And the government they have stolen England immediately.
        1. kalibr
          April 22 2016 21: 31
          -2
          Are we "Nicholas II"? Sovereign of All Russia?
          1. cast iron
            cast iron April 25 2016 11: 24
            +5
            Are you a historian of all Russia? ))) Not so long ago, one "historian" defended himself according to Vlasov. As a disser (or vyser ...) he actually justified the traitor to the Motherland. When to wait for your defense against the good Hitler and the terrible Stalin?
    2. goose
      goose April 28 2016 14: 32
      +3
      Quote: Monster_Fat
      such a "democratic" Poland.

      That's what, but there was no democracy there. In Poland, there was actually a military dictatorship. Let it be a little liberal, but nevertheless, there were no more personal freedoms there than in the USSR.
  8. Fitter65
    Fitter65 April 22 2016 09: 11
    +18
    Immediately after Polish Germany ...
    Is this to be understood?
    of which ..., a Pz.lY- 280
    Maybe it’s still Pz.IV? And an article from a series of those that is trying again to put the USSR / Russia as one of the arsonists of World War 2 ...
    1. Stas57
      Stas57 April 22 2016 22: 21
      +4
      ordinary amateurism
  9. K-50
    K-50 April 22 2016 09: 12
    +18
    Previously, Hitler agreed on the division of Polish territory with the Soviet leadership in the person of I.V. Stalin

    For one statement, such an article is a minus. There was no preliminary Poland Partition Agreement.
    The treaty was already signed after, when the USSR entered the war, so that Germany would not settle too close to Minsk. All such small "bloopers", and maybe specially built-in ones, cut the whole historical truth. hi negative
    1. kalibr
      April 22 2016 09: 31
      -10%
      The non-aggression agreement between Germany and the Soviet Union (German: Deutsch-sowjetischer Nichtangriffspakt) was signed on August 23 1939 of the year. German-Soviet friendship and border treaty between the USSR and Germany // "Pravda", No. 270 (7955) of September 29 1939 of the year. But ... can it be said that nothing was negotiated between these dates, as well as before 23 of August. This does not happen in politics, especially politics of this level!
      1. cast iron
        cast iron April 22 2016 13: 53
        +11
        At the same time would they remind us all of those who paired up with Hitler Czechoslovakia? Are not democratic Poles?
      2. yehat
        yehat April 22 2016 16: 05
        +3
        the contract is a contract; it had nothing to do with the division of Poland, but there was still a secret protocol of intent - though there were more speculations than the truth told about its content. And the Poles were more likely satisfied than opposed to the occupation of the USSR, because it was better than the occupation of Germany. Why did they think so? And you read the story about the activities of Lipsky, etc. Finally, remember that the Germans demanded a corridor to Danzig because the Poles, contrary to the results of the 1st World War, blocked the free flow of goods
        and did quite a few other nasty things to the Germans.
    2. yastr
      yastr April 22 2016 15: 00
      +10
      Always infuriated the words "partition of Poland": the USSR did not take any Polish lands. These words are the main forgery.
      1. yehat
        yehat April 22 2016 16: 07
        +2
        about history lie very actively, a lot and constantly
        forgery is also ongoing.
  10. novel66
    novel66 April 22 2016 09: 27
    +9
    I would still like more about tanks - as the name implies, but about tanks just in passing. therefore minus.
    1. Monster_Fat
      Monster_Fat April 22 2016 10: 40
      +1
      Actually, what about Baryatinsky's books "Nemetsian Tanks in Battle", "Soviet Tanks in Battle", "Lend-Lease Tanks in Battle" and others do not fully disclose this topic?
      1. kalibr
        April 22 2016 10: 49
        -5
        Reveal! But this is not a book that cannot be inserted here, but an article originally designed for a free and wide exchange of opinions.
        1. BMP-2
          BMP-2 April 22 2016 19: 38
          +3
          Come on, Vyacheslav, where is the breadth of opinions? There is a direct contrast and clash of foreheads of only two opinions. Moreover, in a situation so unambiguous, in which, by definition, there can be no two opinions !!!
          1. kalibr
            April 22 2016 19: 55
            -4
            Maybe this also makes some sense?
            1. BMP-2
              BMP-2 April 22 2016 22: 14
              +1
              Of course have. They told you about him above. True, for some reason you did not agree ... what
  11. The comment was deleted.
  12. pigkiller
    pigkiller April 22 2016 09: 46
    +13
    For the sake of objectivity, the author should mention the 1934 Pilsudski Pact, which was torn apart by Germany on April 28, 1939. And also about personal friendly relations of Piłsudski, President Moscitsky, Marshal Rydz-Smiglyms with Goebbels, Goering, Neurath. In particular, Goering was very fond of hunting in Belovezhskaya Pushcha. Also undoubted is the role of Poland in the partition of Czechoslovakia. There is not a single photo of Warsaw, destroyed to the ground, but a whole selection of staged photos about the "German-Soviet military community" is presented.
    1. kalibr
      April 22 2016 10: 11
      -9
      How do you know that they are staged? There are very similar photos in the Krasnogorsk archive of film and photo documents! "Put" on both sides? By the way, the words about friendship "welded by blood" are from the newspaper Pravda. It's even on the Web ...
      1. pigkiller
        pigkiller April 22 2016 10: 23
        +2
        See "staged photo". On the part of the Wehrmacht, there were propaganda companies subordinate to the Goebbels ministry. You can read more in Goebbels' diary, the first part of which is published in Russian.
        1. kalibr
          April 22 2016 10: 34
          +1
          That is, they put our soldiers and commanders next to the Germans and took off? And our photographers, whose photos are in Krasnogorsk ... also put them and shot. All set and all shot!
          1. pigkiller
            pigkiller April 22 2016 12: 13
            +1
            The best photographs of Soviet soldiers were taken in Berlin on the steps of the Reichstag in May 1945.
            1. kalibr
              April 22 2016 13: 00
              0
              This is true, of course, but specifically you did not answer my question.
            2. yehat
              yehat April 22 2016 16: 11
              +1
              The best photos were taken at the locations of their units before the war! stop
          2. pigkiller
            pigkiller April 22 2016 12: 13
            +1
            The best photographs of Soviet soldiers were taken in Berlin on the steps of the Reichstag in May 1945.
            1. Alex_59
              Alex_59 April 22 2016 13: 35
              +7
              Quote: kalibr
              How do you know that they are staged? There are very similar photos in the Krasnogorsk archive of film and photo documents! "Put" on both sides? By the way, the words about friendship "welded by blood" are from the newspaper Pravda. It's even on the Web ...

              They are certainly not staged, but comments on the photo about "blood-bound friendship" are shame and disgrace. There could be no talk of any friendship between Germany and the USSR at that time. At the highest level they knew this very well. You are trying to present photographs from a formal event as an act of unification of the German army and the Red Army - which is a lie. And then, ordinary soldiers, and even commanders, no one forbids to have friendly feelings for the same ordinary soldiers of another army (which at that moment is not yet an enemy army!). The officers, however, are clearly performing a diplomatic mission, if the goal was to settle relations with Britain or Uruguay, they would smile and stand the same. And then you would make captions to the photo - "blood-sealed friendship" with the damned capitalists.
              1. kalibr
                April 22 2016 14: 48
                0
                Quote: Alex_59
                And then you would make captions to the photo - "blood-sealed friendship" with the damned capitalists.

                Would that be true? They ceased to be damned capitalists from the fact that they stood next to our fighters? And again - this term was in Truth. The official body of the Central Committee of the CPSU (B.)!
                1. Alex_59
                  Alex_59 April 22 2016 20: 13
                  +4
                  Quote: kalibr
                  Would that be true?

                  It depends on what tone. If in such, as was done above in the article, ironically mocking, with the subtext "well, we know the truth" - then it would be untrue. The country's leadership ordered our guys to fulfill a specific mission - to smile, shake hands, take pictures, be friendly and wave goodbye to the Wehrmacht in Poland. This is the task of state importance in accurate work with the enemy. And even though they had to crack their foreheads, they had to smile and shake hands. And try not to obey the order. Step march - smile and shake hands. And judging by the pictures, the order was executed perfectly. This is the truth.
                  Quote: kalibr
                  Well, for starters, that's not bad either.
                  Reduced to promotion! Thank you very much!
              2. kalibr
                April 22 2016 16: 28
                0
                Quote: Alex_59
                They are certainly not staged
                Still not staged ?! Well, for starters, that's not bad either.
      2. The comment was deleted.
      3. cast iron
        cast iron April 22 2016 13: 54
        +3
        You better tell us why bashfully kept silent about the Pilsudski Pact and why did you remind us of the division of Poland between the USSR and Germany under an agreement?
      4. Silhouette
        Silhouette April 22 2016 15: 56
        +2
        The joint Soviet-German military parade was held on September 22.09.1939, XNUMX in Brest
        after the partition of Poland by Russians and Germans under the Molotov-Ribbentropp Pact.
        The parade was taken by brigade commander S. Krivoshein and General G. Guderian.
        The parade of German and Soviet troops is mentioned by Guderian in his memoirs, published in Russian in 1998:
        "Our stay in Brest ended with a farewell parade and a ceremony with the exchange of flags in the presence of the brigade commander Krivoshein."

        In his memoirs, Krivoshein writes that Guderian insisted on holding a parade with the preliminary construction of parts of both sides in the square. Krivoshein tried to abandon the parade, citing the fatigue and unpreparedness of his troops. But Guderian insisted, pointing to the clause of agreement between the higher commands, which stipulated a joint parade. Krivoshein had to agree, but he proposed the following procedure:

        At 16 o’clock, parts of Guderian’s corps in the marching column, with standards in front, leave the city, and parts of Krivoshein, also in the marching column, enter the city, stop on the streets where the German regiments pass, and salute the passing units with their banners. Orchestras perform military marches [1].

        Guderian agreed to the proposed option, but separately stipulated that he would be present at the podium with Krivoshein and welcome the passing units
        1. Alexander Greene
          Alexander Greene April 22 2016 21: 31
          +1
          There was no joint parade of German and Soviet troops. The Germans captured part of the territory of Western Belarus, from which they had to withdraw their troops. The withdrawal of troops took place in an organized manner, Soviet observers followed this up.
          1. sibiryouk
            sibiryouk April 22 2016 23: 34
            +1
            It was not a parade, but a ceremonial change of troops. The Germans were leaving, the Soviet troops were entering BREST (Guderian insisted on such a ceremony so as not to lose face). But the Germans were too overstated by capturing BREST!
        2. Visitor
          Visitor 25 October 2016 09: 40
          0
          Since you are so boldly referring to the Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact, name specifically where there is even a word about Poland in general.
      5. yehat
        yehat April 22 2016 16: 09
        0
        there are photos and their interpretations. If Russian soldiers do not bite the Germans in the photo in the throat, this does not mean that they are fighting together. USSR had enough of its land!
        The land near Vyborg and Bessarabia is not a land issue, it is the solution of other issues with the help of land.
        1. Silhouette
          Silhouette April 22 2016 17: 04
          +4
          The leader nodded in satisfaction.
          - Continue, Boris Mikhailovich.
          - There was an unexpected misunderstanding. (Surprise flashed in Stalin's eyes.) The Germans, without informing us, crossed the intended demarcation line. Having crossed the bridge over the Bug, they captured Brest and began the assault on the citadel.
          Shaposhnikov looked at his watch:
          - Fulfilling the command order, the tanks of the brigade commander Krivoshein now go to Brest at maximum speed. And tomorrow morning, Comrade Stalin, the misunderstanding will be eliminated.
          - Brigade Commander Krivoshein? - Stalin thought a little. - I remember, I already heard that name.
          - That's right, brigade commander Semyon Moiseevich Krivoshein. Has combat experience, went through the Civil War. He fought in Spain, was awarded the Order of Lenin. The People's Commissar, Comrade Voroshilov, was sent to the Far East to sort out our failures at Lake Khasan.
          - Brigade Commander Krivoshein - a Jew?
          Hiding the confusion, Shaposhnikov stroked his hair with a palm divided by a neat parting:
          - That's right, Comrade Stalin, a Jew.
          Stalin silently went to the table, sat in a chair.
          - You order to cancel the decision of our command, Comrade Stalin?
          The leader, slowly, lit a pipe. Fragrant smoke floated through the study.
          - We will not cancel the decision of the command. We trust our command. - Stalin suddenly grinned. - It’s even good that a brigade commander with a Jewish nationality was sent to Brest. Spoil the Germans mood after the victorious end of the Polish war. What do you think, Boris Mikhailovich?
          “I completely agree with you, Comrade Stalin.”


          M.Hariton. newspaper "Jewish panorama"
  13. Grim Reaper
    Grim Reaper April 22 2016 09: 50
    +11
    Another reminder of the "treachery" of the USSR, disguised by references to tanks.
    1. kalibr
      April 22 2016 10: 42
      -8
      This is not a matter of treachery, by no means. By the way, England supported the Soviet Union in annexing the territories of Western Ukraine and Western Belarus, occupied by Poland during the Soviet-Polish war in 1921. It is a matter of contradictions between Marxist theory and state pragmatism. The latter triumphed and it is good that he triumphed and triumphs, finally, now for real. However, everything has a price. Only one "good" does not happen!
      1. cast iron
        cast iron April 22 2016 13: 56
        +4
        Why did you hang all the dogs of the USSR and Hitler? This is no coincidence. You had to convey your "truth" to the readers.
      2. Visitor
        Visitor 25 October 2016 09: 43
        0
        You are the Poles and often remind. And then they can conclude the same agreement with Germany in 1934, and take Czechoslovakia together with Hitler, too, and then the guard! - Poland was taken from her; it was taken from the RSFSR earlier.
  14. Sergey-8848
    Sergey-8848 April 22 2016 10: 31
    +13
    The title of the publication (although this seems to be presented as the beginning of a large article) well completely does not fit with textual material, and even more so with photo illustrations. It would seem that there should be a purely technical text, but it is abundantly littered with "political" phrases from the author's views. Isn't that why "Technique for the Youth" rejected this opus back in the 90s?
    1. kalibr
      April 22 2016 10: 38
      -4
      You would like that, would you? But the book about tanks in Libya did not go through, and what kind of politics could there be? But it was about the battle on Kalka. Well, not to guess the logic of other editors ... And yes, I would also like to find more materials on the actual Polish machines. But ... it is simply impossible difficult. And if on Fiume there was where to turn and what to ask. Here ... problems are just the sea. If someone succeeds in more detail and it is better only to take off his hat!
      1. cast iron
        cast iron April 22 2016 14: 00
        +7
        "Poland might well have resisted a little longer if the Soviet Red Army had not entered its territory from the east on Sunday, September 17, 1939."

        And this despite the fact that the Polish government smacked into England on September 16.

        You are an anti-Soviet propagandist. In his most natural way.
        1. kalibr
          April 22 2016 14: 52
          -9
          Quote: cast iron
          You are an anti-Soviet propagandist. In his most natural way

          Ah, you exposed me. Just not in the eyebrow, but in the eye. Now I’ll go and drown with grief. And if without jokes, then what is our system now? That's it! All that is good for him is good! All that is bad is bad! There will be no return to the past, remember!
          And that means if the government left the country, then everything, you can pick it up, right? And if it does not control 80% of the territory of the country, it can also not be recognized, right? And to organize another country there? Oh, you go so far ...
          1. MrK
            MrK April 22 2016 15: 28
            +2
            Quote: kalibr
            Ah, you exposed me. Just not in the eyebrow, but in the eye. Now I’ll go and drown with grief

            Well, so, as a former teacher of History of the CPSU.
            1. kalibr
              April 22 2016 16: 30
              -1
              But you won’t wait! Apparently it was hard at the university, huh?
              1. cast iron
                cast iron April 23 2016 01: 57
                +2
                Apparently you decided that everyone would swallow your smoking heap in the USSR in silence. It won't work like that, dear. We are not at a university, and you are not a teacher taking an exam. The audience here is not 17 year old freshmen who are afraid to open their mouths to people like you - "teachers".
                1. kalibr
                  April 23 2016 16: 32
                  -2
                  Open your mouth and whatever you want, but what is the use of your discoveries. Who are you? Candidate of historical sciences, doctor? The author of famous historical research? Therefore, I sneezed at all your opinions, now you will become something like this, then we'll talk!
                  1. cast iron
                    cast iron April 25 2016 11: 12
                    +2
                    Are you the only historian in the country? I am more than sure that you fall into the 70% of the incompetent rabble who call themselves "specialists."
                    1. KaPToC
                      KaPToC 27 October 2016 12: 34
                      +1
                      Dear cast iron, why are you up to you with this kalibr? He is scum and a traitor, and he must be shot for treason, and I am not joking.
                      When the FSB is already interested in the names of those whose efforts such articles appear?
                      1. cast iron
                        cast iron 28 October 2016 17: 21
                        +1
                        At that time I was in the mood to communicate with "you" - sometimes you have to train yourself when dealing with scum. Unfortunately, the FSB (or rather the KGB) sold the USSR homeland for money in 1991 for the first time and during the coup of the drunkard Yeltsin in 1993. Sold for money and power. Therefore, no one will catch any small bipods like the author of this Russophobic text - there is no one. For all traitors to the Motherland. And everyone is in power.
          2. AID.S
            AID.S April 22 2016 21: 42
            +1
            Quote: kalibr
            Ah, you exposed me. Just not in the eyebrow, but in the eye. Now I’ll go and drown with grief. And if without jokes, then what is our system now? That's it! All that is good for him is good! All that is bad is bad! There will be no return to the past, remember!
            And that means if the government left the country, then everything, you can pick it up, right? And if it does not control 80% of the territory of the country, it can also not be recognized, right? And to organize another country there? Oh, you go so far ...

            In your Crimea - illegally reunited with Russia?
            1. kalibr
              April 23 2016 16: 34
              0
              Crimea is a completely different matter. It was illegally donated by Khrushchev to Ukraine. And his return on the basis of the expressed popular opinion is a normal act of correct state policy.
        2. yehat
          yehat April 22 2016 16: 14
          +1
          very accurate mention of gross juggling of facts
        3. 10 inches
          10 inches April 22 2016 23: 23
          0
          not to england. to romania at first drapanula.
        4. sibiryouk
          sibiryouk April 22 2016 23: 37
          +1
          Separate units would have resisted for another two or three days, but this is pointless since the entire TOP of POLAND was already sitting on the Romanian border from September 10-12.
  15. Alexey RA
    Alexey RA April 22 2016 11: 22
    +6
    Already on May 22, Guderian’s tanks reached the Atlantic Ocean and captured Boulogne, after which it would be most logical to continue the attack on Dunkirk to capture the British forces there. But Hitler forbade this for some reason; historians still argue about the reasons for this decision.

    Ahem ... actually the offensive at Dunkirk was not stopped by Hitler at all. Initially, von Rundstedt gave the stop order, and Hitler only confirmed it.
    In some detail, Freezer analyzes the stop-order at Dunkirk, analyzing all the versions put forward. So, in his opinion, in fact, the initiator of the stop order was not Hitler, but the commander of Army Group "A" von Rundstedt. The order, the content of which fully corresponded to the stop order, was issued in Army Group "A" the day before the Fuehrer's order. At that moment, the high command wanted to take all the tanks from Rundstedt and transfer them to Army Group B, without consulting the Fuehrer. Hitler learned about this from Rundstedt himself and boiled over. This order was canceled, and Rundstedt received carte blanche for all his actions, including the stop order. Initially, the stop order was dictated by concerns about the flanks. So another myth fell apart - about a stupid Fuhrer and very, very smart commanders.
    (c) Isaev

    Why did von Rundstedt give such an order? Here it is necessary to look at previous events, more precisely - at the battles of Arras.
    On May 21, the British task force of Franklin, consisting of the 5th and 50th divisions with 74 tanks from the 1st Army Tank Brigade, with the support of the 3rd French Mechanic Division, launched a counterattack that hit the rear of the 7th Panzer Division and the SS Motorized Division "Dead Head" in the Arras area. On the morning of May 23, the 1st French army also launched a counterattack in the direction of Arras, which threatened Kleist’s tank group with encirclement. Kleist reported to Halder on the evening of the 23rd that he had already lost half the tanks and could not move to Dunkirk until he eliminated the crisis at Arras. In addition, he said that tanks were first subjected to sensitive raids.

    It was after these attacks that von Rundstedt became preoccupied with the problem of the flanks and on May 23, 1940, ordered the attack to be stopped from May 24. Hitler, who arrived at the headquarters of von Rundstedt on May 24, only confirmed the already issued and executing stop order, based on the data and arguments that von Rundstedt brought.
    And after the war, the surviving German generals and field marshals wrote memoirs, where all their mistakes were attributed to the dead.
  16. Bigriver
    Bigriver April 22 2016 11: 38
    +6
    the author ...
    ... Poland could well have resisted a little longer if on Sunday on September 17 1939, the Soviet Red Army did not enter its territory from the east.

    Poland could resist a little longer if its statehood did not disappear with the flight of the government to Romania on September 16 November 1939, XNUMX
    I do not understand, the author is worried that several thousand Poles could not die with the same result of this war?
    ... the Polish campaign was quite expensive for Germany. Therefore, about any further advance to the East, as subsequently repeatedly stated by Molotov and Stalin, at this time there was no question ...

    It is not good to juggle / not say anything. negative
    Stalin-Molotov talked about the occupation by the Wehrmacht of the eastern regions of Poland (Western Ukraine and Western Belarus). It was quite beyond the means of strength, since there was no longer a united front before them. And the enemy’s reserves too.
  17. Grandfather Katso
    Grandfather Katso April 22 2016 12: 00
    -25%
    Brilliant article!
    I understand of course that there will be many minuses, because local Stalinists are not interested in reading the truth about the outbreak of World War II.
    Well, I’ll add some more photos to you, after 2 years.
    These are captured Soviet prisoners of war, representatives of the "Wild Divisions" from Central Asia, who defended Moscow, and then perished en masse in a series of senseless Stalin's "counteroffensive".
    There are thousands of similar photos in the German archives!
    1. pigkiller
      pigkiller April 22 2016 12: 08
      +12
      Thank you for the reminder of the tragic events of World War II. I note
      that it was Goebbels personally who demanded to show in Die Deutsche Wochenschau as many Soviet prisoners of war of Asian or Jewish appearance as possible. Apparently so that you have "thousands of similar photos" at your disposal. Josef worked for the future.
      1. Grandfather Katso
        Grandfather Katso April 22 2016 16: 51
        -8
        Quote: pigkiller
        Apparently so that you have "thousands of similar photos" at your disposal. Josef worked for the future.

        Joseph worked for the future, of course, but he didn’t draw prisoners of "Mongolian appearance" in Photoshop!
        But even this is not interesting, but what is interesting is that the Soviet chroniclers also worked for the "perspective"! In the Soviet chronicle, the Red Army men and prisoners are all as one bogatyrs-Slavs!
        This is embarrassing!
    2. The comment was deleted.
    3. Black
      Black April 22 2016 12: 22
      +9
      Quote: Grandpa KATSO
      These are captured Soviet prisoners of war

      Savor, gaddy!
    4. Bigriver
      Bigriver April 22 2016 12: 42
      +8
      Quote: Grandfather KATSO
      ... who perished en masse in a series of senseless Stalin's "counter-attacks"

      What are the claims? The fact that the Red Army did not voluntarily give up the initiative to the Wehrmacht, and did not allow to complete the blitzkrieg before the fall?
      1. pigkiller
        pigkiller April 22 2016 13: 12
        +5
        They are still indignant that the losses of Germany (not counting its close allies) in only 2 months of the war in the USSR exceeded its losses in the period of September. 1939 - May 1941. This is the question of the inability of the Red Army to resist in the first months of the war.
      2. The comment was deleted.
      3. Grandfather Katso
        Grandfather Katso April 22 2016 16: 51
        -8
        Quote: BigRiver
        The Red Army did not voluntarily give up the Wehrmacht initiative

        Gave and how!
    5. Pinkie F.
      Pinkie F. April 22 2016 14: 42
      +3
      Quote: Grandpa KATSO
      These are captured Soviet prisoners of war

      powerfully.
    6. yehat
      yehat April 22 2016 16: 24
      +1
      senseless counterattacks? You ignoramus, read the story! All attacks had clear goals and the troops had the means to realize them. The problem was people’s training - from platoon commanders to the general staff, the army simply couldn’t cope with such complex operations, and the Germans very, very competently held the defenses. I remind you that the Red Army attacked thousands of entrenched groups of the world's best prepared army. Near Rzhev the Germans saved little things from defeat several times. Once the Red Army was not enough just an hour to close the environment.
    7. goose
      goose 22 June 2018 15: 06
      0
      Where is the truth in your words ??? Here is at least one ...
  18. Bashibuzuk
    Bashibuzuk April 22 2016 12: 19
    +9
    Well, Mr. Comrade Barin, the author .... start.
    And before, doubts gradually appeared, in the mood of the articles - for the Motherland, or whatever.
    And now - well, everything became clear. With the mood.
    "... Previously, Hitler agreed on the division of Polish territory with the Soviet leadership in the person of IV Stalin, .." - and can you confirm with concrete the preliminary agreement between Stalin and Hitler?
    From archives where you spend so much time.
    ...
    Poor Poles ... just a couple with Hitler tearing the Czech Republic -
    ".... fearing a bypass movement of the enemy and strikes to the flank and rear. But even in this case, Poland could well have resisted a little longer if on Sunday, September 17, 1939, the Soviet Red Army had not entered its territory from the east .. .. "
    The Red Army simply took its own territories, which Poland inherited by lawlessness.
    And the whole layout.
    ...
    To whom are we writing, author?
    ...
    Excellent materials were about Japanese edged weapons, about the peoples of the sea in the Mediterranean. About knightly armament. About effigii.
    ..
    But when the author begins to be thrown like a sliver into the sea - then about the Fiume incident, then about the Wehrmacht tanks ... yes, everything is abundantly sprinkled with TERRY ANTISOVETCHINA and RUSSOPHOBIA.
    involuntarily I want to say -
    ...
    do you have enough publications for a doctorate?
    ...
    Or why such activity in completely different topics?
    ..
    And now, since EVERYTHING SHOULD KNOW THE TRUTH - answer us .... truthfully.
    1. kalibr
      April 22 2016 12: 47
      -9
      Why didn't you like Fiuma? Everything is on the documents! And where is Russophobia? As for the "tanks", nothing has been invented here either. "Don't you have enough publications for a doctoral dissertation" - it's ridiculous to read that! Publications on VO do not count towards doctoral dissertation. And writing ... it's interesting, it's my job as a journalist. That's all! The tinker tinkers, the journalist writes! And the opinions? And you have mine, I have mine! We live in a democratic country where everyone has the right to speak out, unless he promotes extremism, racism and so on. Don't like my content? Write yours! And now a little to the rule of law. Don't you think that treaties should be respected? On September 17, at least four international agreements were in force that governed Soviet-Polish relations:
      • Riga Peace Treaty 1921 of the year on the Soviet-Polish borders;
      • The Litvinov Protocol, or the Eastern Pact on the renunciation of war;
      • The Soviet-Polish non-aggression treaty of January 25 1932 year, extended in 1934 until the end of 1945 year;
      • London convention of the 1933 of the year, containing a definition of aggression, which the USSR signed on 3 of July of the 1933 of the year.
      By the way, England supported the Soviet Union in annexing the territories of Western Ukraine and Western Belarus occupied by Poland during the Soviet-Polish war in 1921.
      1. Alex_59
        Alex_59 April 22 2016 13: 20
        +9
        Quote: kalibr
        At 17 September, at least four international agreements were in force that governed Soviet-Polish relations:

        You probably read Potemkin’s statement from 17.09.39. It says: "Warsaw, as the capital of Poland, does not exist anymore. The Polish government has disintegrated and shows no signs of life. This means that the Polish state and its government have virtually ceased to exist."
        Contracts are executed in the conditions of existence of the contracting parties. If one of the parties to the agreement disappears, the object of the agreement disappears. Observe the Sovietwhose treaties on Polish territory was supposed to the USSR after 17.09.39?
        The Germans took Warsaw without the participation of the USSR. In fact, everything was decided. The Polish government was really lost, and on the 18 number it was found outside the territory of Poland. And only at that moment did the USSR enter the territory of Poland, and having taken strictly those territories that were taken away in the 21, it stopped.
        If it was a question of a joint partition of Poland with the Germans as a pre-planned action, why did the USSR not attack simultaneously with the Germans 01.09.39? Why did it take more than 2 weeks to wait? After all, if there really was an alliance with Germany - wouldn’t the Germans have agreed with an ally on coordination of actions, since German soldiers were dying, and the Soviet attack not on the 17 and 1 on September could save thousands of Aryans? But that was not.
        Finally, the losses of the Polish army in clashes with the Red Army are several times less than the losses from the actions of the Germans. Which clearly shows who actually destroyed the Polish state, and who was forced to intervene. It would be foolish to not intervene when you have no man’s territory, which was even less than 20 years ago yours.
        Quote: kalibr
        By the way, England supported the Soviet Union in annexing the territories of Western Ukraine and Western Belarus occupied by Poland during the Soviet-Polish war in 1921.

        Which once again emphasizes the justice of the Polish campaign of the Red Army. Even England (!) Understood the legitimacy of the demands of the USSR for the return of lands chopped off by the Poles. The British clearly understood that the USSR was acting not in conjunction with Germany, but in spite of it.
        1. kalibr
          April 22 2016 16: 42
          -4
          That is, by your logic, the contracting party is the capital? No capital, no contract? Opening!
          1. Alexey RA
            Alexey RA April 22 2016 17: 23
            +5
            Quote: kalibr
            That is, by your logic, the contracting party is the capital? No capital, no contract? Opening!

            No government - no contract.

            However, we are now trying to approach events of almost 80 years ago with modern ethical standards. But at that time everything was much simpler: the same Great Britain, the current champion of freedoms and international law, was late in 1940 with an invasion of neutral Norway by day, in the same year it shot or seized the ships of the Navy of neutral France, and in 1941 captured French Syria, in 1942 - Madagascar, and at the end of 1942 - landed troops on the territory of the French colonies in North Africa.

            And I still don’t remember about the partition of Czechoslovakia, one of the participants of which was poor unfortunate Poland. smile
            1. kalibr
              April 22 2016 19: 48
              -6
              That is, if someone hits the face of someone, then you can. And this is with the high principles you proclaimed? That is, principles - principles, and if it is profitable in the face, then I will give? By the way, I also think so, but I would not proclaim high principles at the same time!
              But the government was only left for another country ...
              1. KaPToC
                KaPToC 27 October 2016 12: 43
                +1
                Quote: kalibr
                That is, if someone hits the face of someone, then you can.

                If you beat the face, then you can beat the face. Poland got what it deserves for the partition of the Czech Republic.
                1. cast iron
                  cast iron 28 October 2016 17: 23
                  +1
                  Poland during the Civil War in Russia went to the blood-stained Russia war and squeezed the territory. It was these territories that Stalin squeezed out under an agreement with Hitler in 1939. I think this is more than fair and correct.
          2. Alex_59
            Alex_59 April 22 2016 20: 21
            +6
            Quote: kalibr
            That is, by your logic, the contracting party is the capital?

            A contracting party is a legal entity. A sign of a legal entity is the presence of an accurate address, contact information for communication, legitimacy, representativeness (there is a person with confirmed authority to resolve any issues under the contract), etc.
            At 17.09.39, Poland, as the subject of the contract, did not have a reliably established address of residence, there was no possibility to establish contacts through existing communication channels, a representative person or group of persons was not precisely established, and the legitimacy in connection with the seizure of most of the country by a third state was in question.
            Can you conclude an agreement with Antarctica? Not? And why? Probably because there is nobody. Duck here in Poland also on 17.09.39 it is not clear with whom it was to solve issues. There is a territory - there is no legal entity.
            1. kalibr
              April 22 2016 21: 39
              -3
              But the government existed both de facto and de jure, the inability, for example, of a bailiff to hand you a subpoena does not mean that you have ceased to be a citizen of the Russian Federation. It only means that at the place of registration you are currently absent. So you just had to wait. There are governments in exile, and this is a legal term. And, by the way, in 41, our government found the Polish one and ... announced that it would recognize it.
              1. Alex_59
                Alex_59 April 22 2016 23: 10
                +4
                Quote: kalibr
                But the government existed both de facto and de jure

                Once again, the government is not Schrödinger's cat to hide in boxes somewhere in an incomprehensible state. Where and how did Molotov have to look for this very Polish government on 17.09.39/XNUMX/XNUMX? Run with a candle all over Europe, shouting "Awww, Polish government!" Does he need it? So do not shift from a sore head to a healthy one. The fact that the Poles profunked their statehood is not the fault of the Germans, and certainly not the Russians, but the Poles.
                Quote: kalibr
                For example, a bailiff to hand you a subpoena does not mean that you have ceased to be a citizen of the Russian Federation. It only means that at the place of registration you are currently absent.

                Such an analogy is not entirely appropriate. The authorities are loyal to their citizens, and the fact that you are lying drunk under the fence while the bailiffs are looking for you is not a crime, and they are not deprived of citizenship for this. A citizen has the right to be a fool, this is not a crime. Well, what can you do, it happens. But the government cannot be a fool. Rather, it can, but as Poland's experience shows, other governments ignore such governments as unsuitable. And they’re doing it right.
                Quote: kalibr
                And, by the way, in 41, our government found the Polish one and ... announced that it would recognize it.

                I can not comment, because I don’t know when and how it was recognized. But if recognized in 41, this only confirms my words. Obviously, by the 41 year, the Polish government had fallen from shock, settled somewhere in England, and finally designated itself - they say we are here, there are such people, we ask for favors. In this situation, one can admit if there is no doubt about legitimacy.
      2. Visitor
        Visitor 25 October 2016 09: 51
        +1
        It's good that you remembered all these documents. Precisely because the Red Army did not cross the "Curzon Line", which was for England and France the internationally recognized border of Poland, the Allies did not declare war on the USSR. There was no fact of violation of the borders of Poland. And Germany just violated them, fulfilling their agreements on mutual assistance, the Britons and the French declared war on Germany.
    2. Alex_59
      Alex_59 April 22 2016 12: 56
      +5
      Quote: Bashibuzuk
      The Red Army simply took its own territories, which Poland inherited by lawlessness.
      And the whole layout.

      Moreover, in strict accordance with international law - exactly after the Polish government fled from Poland and, in fact, the state of Poland ceased to exist. How could the Polish army “resist for a long time to come” having lost its political leadership and control at the strategic level? Unclear! Obviously, no one interfered with the partisan of this army further, but they preferred to raise their hands up.

      The author broadcasts the dense myths of 90's. Minus.
      1. Bashibuzuk
        Bashibuzuk April 22 2016 13: 15
        +10
        Well, if even England ... God, it is necessary to cross ourselves ... supported the USSR in the annexation of the western territories ...
        then, where does the stab in the back?
        Exhausting in battle the Polish army ...
        ...
        Before that, she was exhausted, su ... udder, that the Red Army resisted with greater fierceness than the Wehrmacht.
        Yes, and the Wehrmacht, by the way ... snatched much more than expected ... this is to the way the Poles fought with the Germans .... so the Wehrmacht simply gave the territory to the Soviet Union. Itself. Voluntarily.
        For he knew that these were NOT Polish lands.
        ...
        And I, in fact, talked about something else.
        Stop emphasizing impartiality and literally following the truth.
        Firstly .... you are not the Lord God, not destiny, not Themis. You are a man ... based on biochemistry and the game of enzymes. Impartiality here does not smell. Something else gives ...
        Secondly .. we are with you about the same age, under 60. Just about to hit. They played in one sandbox, went to some circles. I read some primers and applications for UT.
        So, when you STRONGLY emphasize that only in old age did your eyes open - this causes, to put it mildly, misunderstanding.
        ...
        I knew the truth about the war and Stalin from my grandfathers and grandmothers, from my parents. From those who lived and fought there at that time.
        I, the truth - served in a popular wrapper - do not need.
        ..
        And on the forum there are also many children, literally. Boys with an unformed worldview.
        It would be nice to think about their future.
        1. kalibr
          April 22 2016 14: 40
          -6
          Quote: Bashibuzuk
          So, when you STRONGLY emphasize that only in old age did your eyes open - this causes, to put it mildly, misunderstanding.
          Strange - where did I emphasize this. Well, I’m a little more years old than you, but that’s not the point. It is ridiculous to read that they knew the truth about the war from grandfathers and parents. Were you marshals of the Soviet Union and foreign ministers? I also didn’t have marshals, but my mother and I taught the history of the CPSU for many years and kept a lot of interesting documents in my hands. And the adoptive father was ... a colonel of the Red Army and part-time Polish Army. Head of the special department of the Krakow Military District (Do you understand what this means and a measure of trust and competence?). He was awarded both the Soviet and all the highest Polish orders, but after the war he returned to the USSR, although they offered to stay there. And he also told me a lot of interesting things. So we had slightly different sandboxes and different sources of information. And I think of the boys no less than you. But what can you offer them? Your grandfathers and grandmothers? And I suggest that in case of any ambiguity, contact the archives and newspapers of the corresponding years, and learn everything not through the OBS agency, but through documents and official sources of information. I am wrong?
          1. Silhouette
            Silhouette April 22 2016 15: 30
            +3
            The lack of logic and the stamped thinking of the authors of some comments are striking. Judge for yourself:
            - Yes, they did the right thing that Poland was robbed of the loot (Western Ukraine and Belarus). But at the same time, it somehow doesn’t reach these people that it was in the national or state interests of the USSR, that is, to return Galicia, Bukovina, and part of Belarus, as well as the Baltic states - this was the country's legitimate national interest. As, however, and the Crimea not so long ago. These are shares of the same order. And there was nothing reprehensible in that. Except for one point directly arising from the events of this series. The fact that the war with Poland was also in the national interests of Germany. It’s somehow not customary to talk about Germany’s national interests, more about ideology and other tinsel that goes with this topic. And about the Danzig corridor somehow casually and reluctantly.
            And from this it follows that the national interests of the USSR and Germany regarding Poland coincided. Well, there's nothing to be done. It is a fact.
            Therefore, nothing prevented Germany and the USSR from being allies in achieving their state interests in Poland. And that was right because it was appropriate.
            So, until June 22, we drove trains with raw materials and fuel to Germany, and they built heavy cruisers, engines for bombers, etc., and helped train pilots and tankers.
            Nothing personal - only state interests and the triumph of historical justice. But the consciousness that is within the framework of the short course of the CPSU cannot understand this simple truth. Therefore, they do not believe their eyes when they see photos of allies in Poland, in which the Soviet brigade stands next to a German officer and receives a solemn march of German troops in Poland.
            But since Western Ukraine and Belarus are native Russian lands, then the war for their return also means a war for their own, for their own. For the fatherland. In short, Patriotic. Which did not begin on June 22, 1941, but on September 17, 1939.
            1. kalibr
              April 22 2016 16: 36
              -4
              Yes, in principle, one can say so, if one puts the state interests above the theory of Marxism-Leninism, which at that time was, however, the measure of everything, but it didn’t work in this case! By the way, as in the 1918 year during the Brest Peace.
            2. Silhouette
              Silhouette April 22 2016 17: 16
              +4
              England and France shared Czechoslovakia with Germany in Munich. This was in their national interest and is not in dispute. A year later, the USSR divided Poland with Germany in Moscow. So what? What problems? England is possible - but the USSR is not? So what?
              Double standards.
  19. surovts.valery
    surovts.valery April 22 2016 13: 09
    +4
    Quote: bionik
    Armored vehicles of the 7th Panzer Wehrmacht Division (7. Panzer-Division) on the march in the area of ​​Abbeville (Abbeville) France. In the foreground are three tanks Pz.Kpfw. 38 (t). Behind them in the far row is the commander tank Pz.BefWg.III. To the left is a group of tanks Pz.Kpfw.II Ausf. B.

    The fact is that for the capture of France the Germans prepared only 2 vehicles, of which Pz.III was 500, and Pz.lY-329. All the others were used simply because there was nothing to replace them and, therefore, really modern the Nazis had only 280 tanks!

    That is, for some reason the author does not take into account the quite modern Czech Pz.Kpfw. 38 (t) and 35 (t) at that time.
    As for the "modern" and "outdated" ones: it has been proved more than once that never and nowhere no army in the world has used or fought exclusively with "newest" equipment and weapons, simultaneously abandoning the "outdated" one.
    Somehow, the author (to put it mildly) incorrectly sprinkles digital figures.
  20. alicante11
    alicante11 April 22 2016 13: 51
    +1
    So far, I have not seen anything new in the article. The Projector has everything in Blitzkrieg. I made such extracts myself when I was studying. Well, except that the photographic material is present. But I don't think they should have been sent to London for these pictures.
  21. vietnam7
    vietnam7 April 22 2016 14: 24
    +4
    It would be better if the author simply laid out an article from Equipment and weapons without changing the text, it would be useful, and with your inappropriate (unreasonable?) Captions under the photographs, you just spread the srach.
    1. kalibr
      April 22 2016 14: 57
      -7
      "I would have known where to fall, I would have spread the straws!" But on the other hand, an adrenaline rush is also useful. Emotional release again ...
  22. Pinkie F.
    Pinkie F. April 22 2016 14: 34
    0
    German battleship "Schleswig - Goldstein",

    oops ... Still Schleswig-Holstein. It would be interesting if WWII started Goldstein laughing
    1. Alexey RA
      Alexey RA April 22 2016 15: 40
      +2
      Quote: Pinky F.
      oops ... Still Schleswig-Holstein. It would be interesting if Goldstein began WWII

      Then the apologists of the theory of the world Zionist conspiracy would frolic ... smile
      1. Pinkie F.
        Pinkie F. April 22 2016 15: 43
        0
        Quote: Alexey RA
        Then the apologists of the theory of the world Zionist conspiracy would frolic ...

        for sure)
  23. Alceers
    Alceers April 22 2016 14: 50
    +8
    The title does not match the content. The headline should be "liberal shit throwing under the guise of an article about tanks"
  24. Pinkie F.
    Pinkie F. April 22 2016 15: 56
    +1
    As for the French, they opposed the Germans


    and in Soissons even the "female" Mark 4 was found))
  25. Litsvin
    Litsvin April 22 2016 20: 14
    +2
    Herr Hitler, listening to the report of "fast-moving Heinz" (Guderian) about the last joint parade in the city of Brest, was extremely indignant at one fact. He said: "Is it possible that there was no non-Jewish general in the entire Red Army who would have received the parade from the Soviet side instead of Krivosheev?"
    1. Alex_59
      Alex_59 April 22 2016 21: 32
      +3
      Quote: Litsvin
      Is it possible that there was no non-Jewish general in the entire Red Army who would accept the parade from the Soviet side instead of Krivosheev

      He turns out to be a Jew! I didn’t know. Krivoshein Semyon Moiseevich - exactly after all! Hero of the Soviet Union, by the way. Yeah, this is Hitler's super-trolling by Stalin - this is aerobatics! laughing
  26. Denimax
    Denimax April 22 2016 20: 44
    +3
    Something seemed that the author was a Jew of Polish blood, and wrote about the painful.
    I want to say: Shpakovsky Vyacheslav, write better about ancient history, there you get more interesting!
    1. kalibr
      April 22 2016 21: 43
      -5
      I had here an article "Missing" - this is the question of "bloods". And about the ancient history ... Someone likes the pop, some the priest, who the priest's daughter! Look, the next commentator likes ...
      1. cast iron
        cast iron April 23 2016 02: 03
        +2
        Who do you like here already understood. A lover of the Anglo-Saxon enemies of the motherland. Once you put the USSR on a par with fascism, then the enemy. Definitely.
        1. kalibr
          April 24 2016 08: 42
          -1
          Why do you have an American flag?
          1. cast iron
            cast iron April 25 2016 11: 07
            +1
            I don’t have any flags at home, you’ve made a mistake. And on this site flags are distributed by computer, without my participation.
  27. Heimdall47
    Heimdall47 April 22 2016 21: 04
    -12%
    Good article. It is not clear why many here are so much puffed by her, because the author simply voiced the truth.
    Any normal person who knows history understands that the Second World War was unleashed by the Third Reich and the USSR. The Germans took a bite from the west, and we from the east. And we quite bite with appetite.
    Well, then, for 70 years, we have been quietly trying to shift the blame on former homies ...
    1. Cartalon
      Cartalon April 22 2016 21: 37
      0
      It was not true that Adolf wanted to fight the rest, to make sure someone else fought, and to skim the cream themselves.
      1. Heimdall47
        Heimdall47 April 22 2016 21: 44
        -2
        Only Adolf wanted to fight the rest, to make sure that someone else would fight, and to take off the cream themselves.

        I believe that everyone wanted to skim the cream, and Hitler was only ready to pay the most for them
    2. kalibr
      April 22 2016 22: 00
      -5
      And this is an unclean conscience, Alexander! For how many years we were assured and many were assured that we are the best, and then bang and face on the table. And all the Slav brothers in whom we swelled so much GDP somehow escaped to NATO. And now we have a problem with Poland and missiles there, and with the Czech Republic, although who is closer: are they to us or are Americans to them? And the reason ... the reason is clear - all the same double standards policy, which now we do not like. And the subconscious mind says that something is wrong here, it doesn’t happen that only one side was to blame on 100%, and the other is not. But a stunted consciousness cannot come to terms with this. Well, at least I’ll give you minuses. But ... people do not understand that cons will not change anything. The question is which of the minusers has real leverage over society. And something tells me that they don’t have such leverage, so they take their soul away.
      1. Cartalon
        Cartalon April 22 2016 22: 10
        0
        Even I did not understand you at all, if you remove the ideology, then the division of eastern Europe between Germany and Russia is the most natural thing that could have been invented, but the ideology was lost and millions died.
      2. Heimdall47
        Heimdall47 April 22 2016 22: 18
        -5
        And this is an unclean conscience, Alexander! How many years have been assured us and many have been assured that we are the most, and then bang and face on the table

        I agree.
        I think that lies are deeply rooted in our society. As they began to lie at 17 at all levels, we still cannot stop. We can’t even look at life with wide eyes - we are hiding behind the party line)
    3. cast iron
      cast iron April 23 2016 02: 00
      +2
      You are a Russophobe and anti-Soviet propagandist. What is your false lie saying that the USSR unleashed a war in tandem with Hitler. For such words in other companies they spit in the face.
      1. Heimdall47
        Heimdall47 April 23 2016 12: 42
        -1
        You are a Russophobe and anti-Soviet propagandist.

        I take out and put on all your epithets)) Only a person who equates the Soviet with the Russian is clearly damaged by the brain. You better justify how you strengthened our defense by weaning Bessarabia from Romania?
        that the Soviet Union unleashed a war with Hitler. For such words in other companies they spit in the face.

        Well unleashed and unleashed - I see nothing wrong with that. Do you think I care about the Baltic States and Romania? They were born to be beaten and robbed.
        I just don't like lies. When they shift from a patient to a healthy one. Well, we robbed Romania and Poland - well, tell me honestly, they say that it was a matter, yes, yes, okay.
        No - they begin to wriggle, make excuses, carry nonsense, what we are for world peace, fighters against fascism. It’s not good to lie.
        1. kalibr
          April 23 2016 16: 39
          -3
          Yes, or we are a great country and when our interests fly and bomb or ... not great and then also bomb when we can, but at the same time we say that we are for world peace. They are afraid of them, but not respected!
        2. cast iron
          cast iron April 25 2016 11: 10
          +1
          Equalizing Hitler and Stalin is a long-standing dream of Russophobes like you. When aiming in the USSR, they also aim at Russia. There is only one task - to defame the USSR, to defame, and then make repent for the non-existent and make pay. Understand yourself, Russophobe, no one will repent and pay the Anglo-Saxon mongrel.
          1. Heimdall47
            Heimdall47 April 25 2016 11: 36
            0
            . Understand yourself, Russophobe,

            I mean Russophobe, and your fathers - Karl Marx, Engels, Blank, Bronstein, Apfelbaum, Uritsky, Kaganovich, Mehlis, Zemlyachka, etc. etc. - famous Russophiles and patriots laughing
            You, dear, are friends with your head? Or do you have it in order to sound ancient cliches from the Party Congresses?
  28. Alceers
    Alceers April 22 2016 21: 15
    +5
    Quote: Heimdall47
    H.
    Any normal person who knows the story,

    Yes, unfortunately this phrase is not for you
    1. Heimdall47
      Heimdall47 April 22 2016 21: 27
      -11%
      Yes, unfortunately this phrase is not for you

      Did the USSR, by agreement with Hitler (or with the tacit approval of the latter), have not carried out acts of direct aggression against:
      1. Finland.
      2. Estonia
      3. Latvia
      4. Lithuania
      5. Romania
      6. Poland?
      I note - by agreement with the one on whom all dogs are hung. Those. stealing robbed a couple, and then ba - Adolf then the demon turned out to be laughing
      Well, of course, we seem to have nothing to do with it - it seems as if we were not guilty of anything ...
      1. Cartalon
        Cartalon April 22 2016 21: 34
        0
        On the one hand it is so, on the other hand it was necessary to do so, only it was impossible to let France take over, something like that.
        1. Heimdall47
          Heimdall47 April 22 2016 21: 41
          -1
          On the one hand it is so, on the other hand it was necessary to do so, only it was impossible to let France take over, something like that.

          If Stalin was afraid of an attack by Germany, wouldn’t it be wiser to keep a number of buffer states between the USSR and Germany? Why it was necessary to break into the mouth of a wolf. Moreover, all these captured lands did not give us any benefit - we parted with them in a twinkle of an eye. And they swelled a lot of resources to strengthen them.
          1. Cartalon
            Cartalon April 22 2016 21: 44
            0
            These buffer countries would gladly become allies of Germany, communism scared them a lot more than Nazism, and the Poles are simply not negotiable because megalomania is not treated.
            1. Heimdall47
              Heimdall47 April 22 2016 21: 52
              -4
              communism scared them a lot more than Nazism

              I completely agree with this. And who is to blame? The remarkable Soviet government, which spread in Europe a cloud of all rootless bastards as part of the Comintern and all rotfront. It is quite possible to understand Mannerheim, who was not eager to breed collective farms in Finland.
          2. King
            King April 22 2016 21: 45
            0
            Apparently Hitler did not want to save them.
      2. cast iron
        cast iron April 23 2016 02: 10
        +1
        Since when did the Baltic states styles at that time? Since when did the return by the Soviets of the territories previously conquered from them by Poland began to be called "criminal occupation"? ))
        The most important question: How many and what did the USSR steal and robbed at this time from these territories?
        1. Heimdall47
          Heimdall47 April 23 2016 12: 31
          -2
          Since when did the Baltic states style at that time?

          But what - the League of Nations did not recognize them as a state? Please tell me, I am not aware of this.
          Since when did the return by the Soviets of the territories previously conquered from them by Poland began to be called the "criminal occupation"? ))

          Well then, now you can again boldly attack Kazakhstan, Moldova and the Baltic states with the aim of returning))
          How many and what did they steal and robbed the USSR at this time from these territories?

          Earth and labor. Is this not enough?
          1. 10 inches
            10 inches April 23 2016 18: 24
            0
            yes, it seems that all the land they have left .. and slave. power, so then now they are working all over the world. they are looking for a better share. and in the territories they seem to have grown. so I see no reason to be offended.
            1. Heimdall47
              Heimdall47 April 23 2016 20: 15
              -2
              why then now they are working all over the world

              What is happening now has nothing to do with the issue here. In general, it is the matter of the Baltic states whether they work around the world or not. Maybe they have been dreaming about this all their lives. What sadness are you? There is no need to decide everything and impose their Soviet happiness on everyone.
              And after the occupation of the Baltic States of the USSR, tens of thousands of Balts did not voluntarily go to sunny Siberia. I believe that in your opinion it was a great blessing for them. Well, there they rested in order, but how many plants we built for them, anyways, right? )))
              1. 10 inches
                10 inches April 23 2016 21: 50
                +1
                pff..and why are you intervening in such a way? or don’t you know how they spoiled us all the pre-war period? and yes, tens of thousands went and why don’t you ask yourself the question for what reason? that is, participation in punitive battles and SS troops is is not considered? there is such a word-retribution ..
  29. Cobra77
    Cobra77 April 22 2016 21: 31
    +3
    Quote: Heimdall47
    Good article. It is not clear why many here are so much puffed by her, because the author simply voiced the truth.
    Any normal person who knows history understands that the Second World War was unleashed by the Third Reich and the USSR. The Germans took a bite from the west, and we from the east. And we quite bite with appetite.
    Well, then, for 70 years, we have been quietly trying to shift the blame on former homies ...


    How old are you, young deb .. l?
    About history it would be better to keep silent, you first study it for that period, and then write henna.
    1. Heimdall47
      Heimdall47 April 22 2016 21: 36
      -7
      How old are you, young deb .. l?

      Me, dear - 36 years. And can you explain, if you know history so well, the reasons for the Soviet Union’s aggressive actions against a number of countries in the pre-war period.
      1. Alceers
        Alceers April 22 2016 21: 49
        +3
        Quote: Heimdall47
        How old are you, young deb .. l?

        Me, dear - 36 years. And can you explain, if you know history so well, the reasons for the Soviet Union’s aggressive actions against a number of countries in the pre-war period.

        All clear with you. You "taught" history from the tales of the rhesunoids, together with the Solzhenitsyn and other creatures from the Ogonyok magazine, sample 89. And the age of the dol-ba depends not on the years lived by the way, but on the ability to think and analyze. Here you have a complete failure.

        And I’ll check you with litmus, and the fart will blow you up.
        Our Crimea, not? Or aggression too? And Syria probably ...
        1. Cartalon
          Cartalon April 22 2016 21: 55
          +1
          Crimea, then our only exchange is not equal to us. Crimea, they are all Ukraine.
          1. Silhouette
            Silhouette April 22 2016 23: 42
            +1
            Quote: Cartalon
            Crimea, then our only exchange is not equal to us. Crimea, they are all Ukraine.


            Do not rush to conclusions. Ukraine is temporary. The chimera is already dead, but not everyone is aware of it.
        2. Heimdall47
          Heimdall47 April 22 2016 21: 55
          -3
          And I’ll check you with litmus, and the fart will blow you up.
          Our Crimea, not? Or aggression too? And Syria probably ...

          Fucking you litmus))
          Crimea is ours, but in parallel to Syria, the Slavs do not live there.
          1. BMP-2
            BMP-2 April 22 2016 23: 20
            +3
            Well, you see - the litmus proved to be of the same quality. In your opinion, it turns out that ours are only Slavs. And the Turkmens, Tajiks, Kazakhs, Buryats ...? I have already said, but, I repeat: Russian is not a nationality, but a state of mind, worldview and way of thinking. It turns out that it is you - not ours.
            1. Heimdall47
              Heimdall47 April 22 2016 23: 38
              -3
              In your opinion, it turns out that ours are only Slavs. And the Turkmens, Tajiks, Kazakhs, Buryats ...?

              One of the reasons for the impoverishment of the USSR was that the state rolled out a lot of money from Angolan, Ethiopian and other blacks, Cubans, Arabs, Koreans, etc. Half the world was considered ours and ate well from us. While the Soviet people did not ride in oil.
              Apparently life has not taught you anything.
              I have already said, but, I repeat: Russian is not a nationality, but a state of mind, worldview and way of thinking. It turns out that this is you - not ours

              Well, they spoke well. You are not scripture to take this seriously. I am Russian by nationality and, if the Russians are also Buryats, then a big logical mistake is hidden here. )))
              If you have problems with nat. by identification, please do not project at all.

              But the topic of this article, of course, has nothing to do with it.
              1. Cobra77
                Cobra77 April 23 2016 06: 16
                +2
                Yes, I look at you here and smacks of Nazism. Richly mixed shit in your head.
                Better not write about the impoverishment of the USSR and its reasons without examining the question. Start with the Kosygin reforms of the 60s and what a planned economy is. But even in the "poor" of the USSR, the average standard of living was significantly higher than after the Democrats now. I'm not even talking about education, medicine and the crime rate.
              2. BMP-2
                BMP-2 April 23 2016 14: 16
                +1
                Quote: Heimdall47
                If you have problems with nat. identification


                I have no problems with identification. request I will recognize my own laughing


                Apparently life has not taught you anything.


                Forgive the magnanimously uneducated: did not quite understand, but what is so important she taught you? Take Scripture Seriously? wassat That nationality is what determines a person’s value? belay Or have you learned to "ride in oil" now? good You are right: all this has nothing to do with tanks, I am a Soviet man, I am on an armored train! soldier

                and, if the Russians are also Buryats, then a big logical mistake is hidden here. )))


                Well, let's put it this way: the error here is not logical, but conceptual. You and I define the concept of "Russian" in different ways, and what it means "to be Russian". hi
                1. Heimdall47
                  Heimdall47 April 23 2016 20: 25
                  0
                  Forgive the magnanimously uneducated: I didn’t quite understand what she taught you so important.

                  She taught me that everyone doesn’t give a damn about everyone - they are close by blood and faith, and not abstract Tajiks, Buryats and Negroes in Ethiopia.
                  That nationality is what determines a person’s value?

                  As a result of your Soviet upbringing, you probably do not fully understand that "nationality" is not a graph in a Soviet passport, but blood ties. I guess it matters to you - is it your child, wife, brother or an outsider from the street? Or is there no value of kinship - the main thing is that the person is good? smile Then settle in the aul of the Tajik proletariat in your apartment. Well, what about your classroom brothers in the back rooms? Pure water mess))
                  1. BMP-2
                    BMP-2 April 25 2016 00: 27
                    +1
                    Quote: Heimdall47
                    all do not care


                    Hmm ... cool life you have. Well, you understand everything correctly. And they did the right thing that they left. laughing But when surrounding yourself only with your relatives, be careful: unlike "strangers", they never forgive inattention to themselves.
                    1. Heimdall47
                      Heimdall47 April 25 2016 09: 27
                      -1
                      And they did the right thing that they left.

                      Where have I left? To your friends Buryats? Go to them yourself - deepen the class struggle and re-read the April theses laughing
                      1. BMP-2
                        BMP-2 April 25 2016 09: 56
                        0
                        Not left? Well, then it turns out that the science on the site has stepped forward and, having learned to read hidden wishes, presents them in the form of flags assigned to the commentator. laughing
                      2. Heimdall47
                        Heimdall47 April 25 2016 10: 46
                        0
                        Not left?

                        No - I'm in Rasseyushka like cheese in butter skating. smile Why should I go somewhere?
                        You only hurt a lot of infidels, but your friends laughing Well, anyway, in other countries there are even more of them. So that's fine.
                      3. BMP-2
                        BMP-2 April 26 2016 14: 41
                        +1
                        It is better to be unchristian than a Christ seller. laughing
    2. aiw
      aiw April 23 2016 23: 09
      0
      > And the age of dol-ba does not depend on the years lived by the way, but on the ability to think and analyze.

      How do you self-critically define yourself in dol-eby however ... repeat
  30. cast iron
    cast iron April 23 2016 02: 12
    +2
    You are 36 years old, and you are the ideological enemy of the people. Well then! It turns out that with age, not everyone is added)))
  31. Cobra77
    Cobra77 April 23 2016 06: 09
    +2
    Well, as one of the comrades wrote correctly, physical age is not equal to mental age. In your case, you stalled at a level of about 20 years at best. This is even worse than just a minor deb..il. At least he has a chance to grow wiser. You have not enough of it.

    But if you please, let's spend 5 minutes. What aggressive actions do you mean? A slightly controversial point is worn only by the Finnish company, although from the point of view of preparation for a future war, it is quite justified (moreover, the finals were given a choice, they could bargain, but preferred to be proud and stupid). But after the "Munich Agreement" war became inevitable, the only question was when and in what configuration. What else? In other cases, I do not remember anything beyond the framework of that time, everything is exactly in the spirit of the best democracies in the world. Remind me what happened to Czechoslovakia and who participated in its carve-up? Do you want to remember the attempts to conclude a treaty between Britain and Germany? Molotov and Stalin simply outplayed the Britons then. But the negotiations were carried out almost simultaneously. Didn't the USSR offer an alliance to contain Germany before Munich? But the Britons thought that it would not be bad to set Adolf against the USSR. They did not like the communists more than the Nazis. And indeed the Russians.
    1. Heimdall47
      Heimdall47 April 23 2016 12: 51
      -1
      Only the Finnish company bears a slightly controversial point, although from the point of view of preparation for a future war, it is quite justified (moreover, the finals were given a choice, they could bargain, but preferred to be proud and stupid)

      If Hitler would give us the choice to exchange a piece of the country to the Urals for something else, should we consider this seriously?
      Justified? We surrendered these lands with a whistle at the beginning of the war without any benefit. And the Finns were pissed off not childishly.
      Mannerheim did not particularly want to fight in alliance with Hitler. And a justified action on our part would be to kiss his ass before the war, if only he would remain neutral.
      The same goes for Romania. What was the point of robbing them of Moldova before the war and pushing them into an alliance with Hitler? While there was at least a ghostly chance that Romania would remain neutral in the war, it was necessary to breathe like glass.
      But the Britons considered that it would not be bad to set Adolf on the USSR. Then they did not like the Communists more than the Nazis. Anyway, Russian.

      And no one says that shaving is not to blame for anything. Everyone played their game and everyone screwed up.
      1. 10 inches
        10 inches April 23 2016 18: 27
        +1
        one might think the neutrality of someone was stopped .. norway belgium and the other luxemburgs clearly showed this. so there wasn’t even a ghost. and the Finns .. well, I wouldn’t want Mannerheim to find someone more flexible.
        1. Heimdall47
          Heimdall47 April 23 2016 20: 32
          0
          You might think that neutrality stopped someone ..

          I don’t understand what you mean .. If the Romanian and Finnish troops did not participate in the attack on the USSR, we would at least save some decent number of lives of our soldiers and accelerate our victory.
          It doesn’t matter, do you think?
          1. 10 inches
            10 inches April 23 2016 21: 46
            +1
            they would have participated. even if the cordon was being built around the USSR. when did the same Romania refuse a piece? It will not work out. Norway also thought it would sit out.
            1. aiw
              aiw April 23 2016 23: 20
              0
              The Finns participated solely because before that there was aggression of the USSR. And all their participation was reduced to the exit to their old border.
              1. 10 inches
                10 inches April 24 2016 05: 52
                0
                whether or not the winter war, the role of the Finns would not have changed. They would still be forced to fight. Do not forget that the war was not just for the land, but also largely ideological. The opposition of the two systems.
    2. aiw
      aiw April 23 2016 23: 15
      0
      > Remind me what happened to Czechoslovakia and who participated in its carve-up?

      How interesting ... i.e. Does the indisputable fact that other countries conducted aggressive actions during that period automatically make the USSR’s aggressive actions not aggressive? belay

      Those. if, for example, a neighbor (an intellectual and a liberal) beats his wife, and so can we, workers and collective farmers, also?
  • 10 inches
    10 inches April 22 2016 23: 33
    +3
    Vyacheslav, what was suitable for the first issues of the tanker’s work now will not work in any way. If you honestly wrote this article then clearly under the impression of the icebreaker Rezun. the article didn’t work then, and now it’s already no. completely offended, but in vain you squeezed it. would be left in the archives.
    1. cast iron
      cast iron April 23 2016 02: 14
      +4
      Glory simply works out before the elections and on May 9th. He has an ideological task - to put as many smoking brown heaps on the USSR as possible. He is happy to do this.
    2. kalibr
      April 23 2016 07: 33
      -4
      Dear Vladimir, honestly, I have not read a single book by Rezun, although, of course, I have heard about them. I never pay attention to secondary sources. Reading them is only time wasting. There are Zhukov, there is Pravda, and even Gorodovikov Oka is better. As for everything else, do not think that I am absolutely stupid and do not understand what's what. It's just ... I'm taking a master's degree course in public opinion management and I need interesting lectures ... interesting examples. And this is one of them! It's one thing when you take an example from a textbook, and another from life. There are such comments that you can't imagine it on purpose! And the result of the vote is practically Pareto's law, which cannot but please me as a specialist in communication technologies. This speaks of the great controllability of our society, and a PR specialist cannot imagine anything better.
      1. 10 inches
        10 inches April 23 2016 12: 35
        +2
        Vyacheslav experiments on people are forbidden .. and why the reason is just a common canvas is similar.
        1. kalibr
          April 23 2016 16: 47
          0
          Well, about the experiments ... Vivisection of a person is prohibited. And psychological experiments on our people are performed every day. As for a similar canvas, I already wrote: it is simply not profitable for me to read secondary sources. There is not enough time for the primary ones. Do you know what volume is the filing of the newspaper Pravda for the 41 year? Raise hard! They bring it to me on a cart. And flip through and read ... But that’s what the devants give. And if something looks like it’s not my fault, then ... it was so! Or Suvorov invented everything on 100%. You can tell what percentage of his books are bullshit, and how many% are true?
          Right now, two interesting topics have arisen at once: what is in Austria on the Fiume incident and what is in the Bundesarchive in the parade of Soviet-German troops in Brest, Pripyat and Lev. I’ll try to ask, and if they send it, translate it and give it as I gave the material on Fiume.
          1. 10 inches
            10 inches April 23 2016 18: 20
            +2
            Suvorov gave a very subtle mixture of truth and lies. And then you yourself remember how we had the information. The thing that guarded me in his work was that he displayed our wheeled tracked tanks as specially created for deep gusts precisely on the European autobahns - and they say this is a sign of aggression .pro the fact that everyone was fond of such machines then naturally he didn’t write ... if heil did not have a photocopied reference, then maybe I would succumb ..
            1. kalibr
              April 24 2016 08: 04
              0
              Yes, that's a good example. It is clear that the military thinks about a war on the enemy's territory and there are, must be, plans for such a war, right? But to create an aura of aggressiveness on this ... On the other hand ... start a proletarian revolution in the West and if we were "called", wouldn't our tanks rush there? Rush! That is, again, everything rested on what? in% of speculation !!! In Rezun, he is too great, so I was reluctant to read other people's fantasies. There are enough of our own. And, you see, you have Heigl's handbook and ... I also have it, "alive". That is, everything is decided by a sufficient amount of information. Who is more informed to +, who is less -.
      2. BMP-2
        BMP-2 April 23 2016 14: 24
        0
        Tell me, Vyacheslav, well, if it’s not a secret, of course, for the sake of common development: will you give the results of voting on this article in the lecture as an interesting example of successful or unsuccessful management of public opinion?
        1. kalibr
          April 23 2016 16: 53
          -2
          There will always be a direct answer to an interesting question without stupid sublimations: I will say, in fact, I already said in the lecture that I knew the result in advance, well + -. That is, it is not "management" as such, but a "study" of this opinion. And on the basis of the research, conclusions can be drawn corresponding to the goals and objectives. For example, that society lacks truthful information. That the pendulum of public opinion, which swung to the left in the late 80s, was swung there too much and now it naturally goes to the right.
          1. BMP-2
            BMP-2 April 23 2016 20: 38
            0
            Thanks for the frank answer. Well, frankly, this does not draw on the study of opinion: with your comments you, as an experimenter, have a rather significant impact on the final result of the evaluation of the article. yes However, if the goal is different, for example, in assessing the possibility of influencing this opinion by introducing additional information, then this is just a study of the possibility of management.

            At the expense of subletches - you very correctly noticed it good : Naturally, she is not stupid, but smart: I wanted to know what factors could be identified, if possible, of course. what

            Lack of truthful information ... Hmm ... Well, with this just "not everything is clear": a person always lacked information (the theory of bounded rationality did not arise out of nowhere smile ), a lie as a means of survival and improving the quality of life, probably began to be used on the same day when the information appeared. Moreover, even with complete information, a person is often inclined to behave irrationally (in fact, as if the information is incomplete) (I will not cite behavioral economics - after all, this is not an article smile ).

            The conclusion that it is precisely true information that is lacking can, again, be made only if there is an unambiguous idea of ​​the target state into which this society should (or wants, or needs to) get. For example, the "democratization" that began in the mid-80s is clearly not the instrument that would increase the level of well-being declared as a goal. And to argue that this was the only way to increase labor motivation can mean only one thing: lack of knowledge about its mechanism and other, more effective ways of motivation. And in this regard, the question is absolutely unadulterated: do you think there is not enough truthful information for what?

            Example: in Ukraine, now the percentage of false information coming from the media and government is approaching 100%. But, a paradox: pointing to a person at obvious contradictions in the information feeds, one almost never succeeds in changing his attitude to what is happening! Well, that is, if the relation was not formed, then the logic is accepted. But if the relation already exists, then an indication of a contradiction does not give rise to a desire to resolve it, but a simpler mechanism is activated: eliminate the source of the indication itself! yes And this despite the fact that the attitude itself is not stable, and changes under the influence of some other, but also informational factors. request That is, the assertion that Ukrainians tolerate the junta because they do not have enough truthful information is fundamentally wrong, which means that if you limit yourself to just “providing the truth”, the situation will never change.
            1. kalibr
              April 24 2016 08: 18
              0
              Quote: BMP-2
              And in this regard, the question is absolutely without suckers: do you think that true information is not enough for what?
              To understand what Doc Emet Brown wanted to understand in the second episode of Back to the Future

              Quote: BMP-2
              and this means that if we restrict ourselves to just "presenting the truth," the situation will never change.

              Of course! What is the use of knowing everything if the salary of an associate professor at a regional university is 15 thousand. But if a person is smart, he can add it to it today. And more! A stupid can’t do anything. First suffers, then explodes. There were good articles by Morozov in the Rodina magazine about the collapse of promises and expectations. From here legs grow! Now in the same Ukraine 100% of lies in the media give a high% of expectations. What will happen when they fail?
  • Zuborez
    Zuborez April 23 2016 03: 06
    +3
    It is not surprising that the Technique-Youth did not publish such anti-Soviet ideas. They had decent people in the editorial office both then and now.
    1. kalibr
      April 23 2016 07: 39
      -3
      What are you all simple and naive, takes for the soul.
      1. BMP-2
        BMP-2 April 23 2016 14: 26
        0
        Yes, Vyacheslav, this cannot be taken away from us ... laughing

        Can you change this public opinion? wink
        1. kalibr
          April 23 2016 17: 00
          0
          You see that I try to publish articles on serious topics exclusively with links to sources and with the application of documents. It seems that I'm the only one here doing this? And I hope that sooner or later it will change the opinion of part of society. But, in fact, I have students - everything is easier there. For example, the question of the Soviet culture of 20-30's is considered. And they receive reports not on a textbook, but on dissertations. Reshoot the text, and on its basis write a report, indicating the source base. Or read newspapers. After that, their consciousness changes dramatically. Young people are especially sensitive to lies. And here the lie is printed in black letters on yellow paper and just gets into your eyes. That in the newspaper Hitler is a bloody dog, then the chancellor of the German people. The difference is three months! Or Broz Tito - the hero of the Yugoslav people, and two years later - became a bloody dog ​​of American imperialism! How many people went on trial doubting this. There are cases and case numbers!
          1. Cartalon
            Cartalon April 23 2016 17: 19
            0
            Blame accidentally pressed the minus
          2. BMP-2
            BMP-2 April 23 2016 20: 53
            0
            Unfortunately, I can’t share your optimism about the reliability and scientific nature of the material presented in the dissertations, at least in modern Ukrainian ones. But the development of the ability to analyze is yes, I agree, it is very valuable.

            I don’t know about the great sensitivity to lies. At the same time, young people are even more trusting ... Here, rather, according to Paul Eman, a matter of skill: if you have mastered the methods of analyzing information, you notice a lie, but if not, alas.

            I would not be surprised at the sharp change in ratings: here, as in my personal life, he was a friend yesterday, and today is the enemy who slept with your wife ... Changing attitudes should always be correlated with the events that take place and the context in which they occur.

            Okay, good luck with the hard work of fighting for the truth. So be it, I admit: convinced.
            1. kalibr
              April 24 2016 07: 39
              0
              Thank you, Vladimir, for your understanding - it always costs a lot. Don't think that I want to put the squeeze on you. Just about theses. It will be interesting for you. Yes, full of weak, frankly empty dissertations, whose authors have barely defended themselves. But ... they contain a valuable source base! Straight Klondike - don't look for it yourself! And the benefit is that we work with local materials and I can always bring the student to the archive, take the case and show him: this is what is in the case, and this is what the author took from it. And you can see everything, including what else you can take!
              Quote: BMP-2
              Changing attitudes must always be correlated with current events and the context in which they occur.

              And with this I completely agree. Again, as always, we have a lot of disappointments, right? Well, here it is necessary to break on someone ... If I don't eat it, I will at least bite. Unfortunately, this paradigm of Russia's development has not changed since 1861, and this is very bad. Again, we do not have enough money (as under the tsar!), Again "they" and the British are to blame for everything, again the salary is several times lower than that of the Germans and Japanese. And who is to blame - of course, everyone else! You see how many hints of money in the comments? Who has what hurts, he talks about that, doesn't he? I want a sincere and pure love, but do not love! I want dollars for rubles, not rubles for dollars and so on. And everything is fine with the TV screen, everything is fine. And there is nothing to cling to. And then this article ... Well, at least pour your dissatisfaction on it. Everything is very simple and clear!
  • Mikhail Matyugin
    Mikhail Matyugin April 23 2016 18: 41
    0
    I’m wondering, how did many comrades see some kind of ideology in a fairly correct article about tanks?
    1. Alceers
      Alceers April 23 2016 21: 39
      +1
      Have you read the article at all?
  • Alceers
    Alceers April 23 2016 21: 30
    +5
    Quote: kalibr
    You see that I try to publish articles on serious topics exclusively with links to sources and with the application of documents. It seems that I'm the only one here doing this? And I hope that sooner or later it will change the opinion of part of society .... But, in fact, I have students - everything is easier there. Young people are especially sensitive to lies. And here the lie is printed in black letters on yellow paper


    I made some inquiries here. Fluently. About the author of this opus, he is "caliber". Rezume. There is nowhere to put brands ...
    Quote
    "To understand the depths of his" soul "I recommend reading his own" If Hitler took Moscow. "An inveterate Hitlerophile and a professional hereditary offended by the Soviet regime. trifles in view of the absolute isolation from life. He was kicked out from the VIF at one time, on Topovar they still endure. He has his own fan club for elderly boys. "
    So do not shag grandmother. You, dear, do not conduct any research. Is that the money of the State Department. And your govnovbros it is. I can only feel sorry for your students for that asshole who got them in the classroom. But, I think, leaving the standings, they will spit in your soul. For trying to brainwash them.

    Here are other examples of vysers in our homeland
  • Alceers
    Alceers April 23 2016 21: 34
    +1
    So I found the same
  • aiw
    aiw April 23 2016 23: 08
    -1
    Thank you so much for the article. From the comments of local cheers, it’s creepy, Orwell with his 1984th rest ... is it like people need to brainwash, what would they call black white?

    I was especially pleased with the accusation of the author in "anti-Sovietism", even if the article of the Criminal Code was brought ... only in totalitarian states the publication of some historical facts is treason, it is true. Do accusers recognize and support totalitarianism?
    1. 10 inches
      10 inches April 24 2016 05: 58
      +3
      only in totalitarian states the publication of certain historical facts is state treason, is it true. Seriously? Laws expressly prohibiting the public denial, understatement, endorsement or justification of crimes committed by the Nazis adopted in Austria, Belgium, Germany, Lithuania, Luxembourg, Poland, Slovenia, France , Switzerland, as well as in Canada and Israel. Similar laws apply in Liechtenstein, Portugal, Czech Republic and Slovakia. In 2010, a law punishing the denial of the crimes of totalitarian regimes was passed in Hungary. I especially like the word understatement. And note for the exaggeration the criminal prosecution does not occur .. what an interesting logic ..
    2. kalibr
      April 24 2016 07: 49
      -2
      Prosecutors support mediocrity. It is under totalitarianism that the most pleasant time comes for her. Remember the USSR. At the bottom, almost everything - at the top there are SEPARATE KNOWN INVENTORS, SCIENTISTS, ARTISTS, WRITERS. And they ... are few! They can do anything. And here below, where there are once more inventors and writers - we are all about the same salary! No offense! And what now? For mediocrity, it’s scary: society is a step pyramid. There are many steps and it is possible to climb and climb them as far as industriousness and ability. Someone is a writer, but he prints books for his money, and no one takes them, and someone lives on fees, and someone else prints in the West and gets ... a lot!
      Someone washes tanks at a meat-packing plant, while someone else has their own car wash and both wash! Previously, both would have received the same, and even the "butcher" would have wiped out the meat. And now? Now, as at the gate of Buchenwald - "To each his own." So they want to go back, when only a few, recognized by the authorities, working for you, the hegemon, had the right to be special. And now there is no "hegemon" and whoever dared, he ate the fish. It's a shame!
      1. cast iron
        cast iron April 25 2016 11: 20
        +3
        You do not lie dear. You are not an engineer, you are not an "inventor". You are a mediocre type of historian who graduated with a degree in history and fancies yourself an "expert." In fact, you are not an expert, but a propagandist who writes provocative anti-Soviet scribbles for banknotes. Money is your god.
    3. cast iron
      cast iron April 25 2016 11: 18
      +3
      What "facts"? This fact is a direct lie of the author that Poland would still "resist" if the USSR had not opened a second front on September 17? And this despite the fact that already on September 16, the entire government of Poland reeled its rods abroad, leaving the people to the mercy of fate? You call it "facts"?
  • Mikhail Matyugin
    Mikhail Matyugin April 24 2016 12: 03
    -2
    Quote: Alceers
    Have you read the article at all?
    That's exactly what I read! and did not see any ideology, but a clear analysis of a person versed in the topic!

    Quote: XYZ
    photo captions hinting at long-refuted myths, such as a joint "parade", etc.
    Interestingly, for you, photos and newsreels have ceased to be historical documents?

    Quote: XYZ
    The passage about the possible further resistance of the Poles is also doubtful if the Red Army did not strike.

    It is believed that if Poland had resisted longer, then the Western allies would have entered the war more actively and did not sit behind the Maginot Line, and since London and apparently Paris, through intelligence, most likely received information about the conclusion of the secret parts of the Soviet-German Pact, this there was another (if not the main) fact of their passivity.

    To make it clearer, the British, in order to save Poland under the cover of the Grand Fleet, could have landed an airborne army not in Normandy, but in Polish Pomerania - but this did not happen, including not to be between the Nazi hammer and the Soviet anvil.
    1. cast iron
      cast iron April 25 2016 11: 22
      +2
      Ololoshechki, for conducting a landing operation with the army, weeks-long preparations are needed. Neither England nor France made any preparations, although they clearly knew about Hitler's intentions to seize Poland. So leave your Russophobic scribbles to people without brains like Latynina.
    2. 10 inches
      10 inches April 25 2016 18: 56
      +2
      what kind of operation are you talking about ... why such a pain in the neck? The main forces of the Wehrmacht in Poland, in front of the Franks and Angles, only cover forces - so go ahead in otaka! behaved more adequately and not only with us but also with their allies the French, then the German attack would not have happened.
      1. cast iron
        cast iron April 27 2016 22: 44
        0
        It is believed that if the capitalists in Europe were a little less bloodthirsty, then no fascism and Hitler would have appeared in contrast to communism.
  • Litsvin
    Litsvin April 24 2016 16: 15
    +5
    Dear "friends and brothers Slavs", trying to instigate each other by proving their own - "like Germany and the USSR unleashed a war", "took Bessarbia from the Gypsies" or "Anglo-Saxons" (some mythical "Ang-lo-Sak-si). -Slavs, do you really not know the real instigator of the Second World War !!! ??? I'm just surprised, well, read the story, the materials are dark ...
    World War II was unleashed by the Anglo-American financial and political zhidomassonskie circles, consisting of a couple of dozens of names of Jewish origin - the Rothschilds, Rockefellers, Kunns, Leyeba and etc. [/ color] It was they who unleashed the First World War, and Rusko-Japanese and a number of other warriors. Goals, for example, of World War II:
    1) the destruction of the USSR and taking to the hands of its natural wealth and human resources for their extraction (i.e., what could not be done as a result of the Masonic Masonic coup in 1917, led by Blank (Lenin) and Bronstein (Trotsky), etc. .)
    2) The collapse of the British Empire and gain access to trade in the territory of its dominions around the world
    3) The destruction of the Japanese Empire and gaining access to its territory for economic expansion in the Asia-Pacific region
    4) Bleeding of Europe as in World War 1 in order to write off US debts to it
    5) To cash in on military supplies to the belligerent countries (this goal was generally accomplished brilliantly - for example, the Rockefeller company Statoil made the last supply of fuel and lubricants to Germany in February 1945, having received another batch of gold for it)
    “THEREFORE, DO NOT TELL ANYONE ELSE THAT THE WAR WAS UNLINKED BY GERMANY AND THE USSR” - THIS IS A FALSE LIE THAT BEGAN TO BE RUNNED BY THE RULING TOP OF THE US AS YEAR 1939 BY 1945, ALL YALES DELIVERED WITH THE EXCEPT OF THE DESTRUCTION OF THE USSR TO THE USA WERE FULLY COMPLETED. HERE AND NO OTHERWISE. THE DEMI-SANE HITLER WHICH THE US STARTED TO SPONSOR FROM 1922 WAS ONLY A TOOL IN A BIG GAME, NOT AN INDEPENDENT FIGURE.
    AND IN SECURITY I WILL LEAVE THE WORDS OF HENRY FORD, SAID AT THE BEGINNING OF THE 20TH CENTURY: "IT IS NECESSARY TO ISOLATE THE 50 RICHEST JEWS IN THE USA AND ALL WARS ON EARTH STOP IMMEDIATELY !!!"

    1. kalibr
      April 24 2016 18: 46
      -3
      There was already material about conspiracy theory and conspiracies. Including the Masonic ...
  • samoletil18
    samoletil18 April 24 2016 20: 45
    +3
    Well, not so long ago, one asshole defended himself on the topic of General Vlasov, as a protest phenomenon. The author of this article is still so, a small dirty trick.
  • 10 inches
    10 inches April 25 2016 19: 51
    +3
    and now, finally, about Katyn. everyone draws only figures independently. for the period by November 19, 1939 there were 39,6 thousand people (of which about 10 thousand officers and more than 5 thousand police and gendarmes in Starobelsky, Kozelsky and Ostashkovsky camps. in Polish 21 857 people were shot. all were killed from weapons of the Walther and Mauser brand, but of course it was done with special bloody gebene to later blame the white and fluffy SS men. And now the most interesting thing, according to the Poles and our so-called researchers like Yakovlev and Fr. the killed were mostly Polish officers. The question then was who the Anders army was who fled from the Soviet Union as a whole. In total, 75 491 military personnel and 37 756 civilians, so 75 500 military personnel, left the USSR during two evacuations. so we have an army, but who commanded it? if we had only 10000 Polish officers in the camps, we killed over 21 thousand? who then commanded anders in the army ????
  • Akuzenka
    Akuzenka 12 November 2016 00: 02
    +2
    Oh, these tales, oh, these storytellers. Another resunoid. F furnace.
    I know. He himself was a resunoid. He was cured under a hail of personally read and meaningful facts. It immediately serves the necessary conclusions. Think before you put a plus to the author.
  • andrew42
    andrew42 14 November 2016 18: 26
    +3
    The article was written not about tanks, but solely for the sake of a couple of theses about the "meanness of the Soviets" in relation to "noble Poland." Dastardly article.
  • Svidetel 45
    Svidetel 45 April 16 2017 17: 31
    +2
    The article, in my opinion, is full of lies and distortion of real historical facts, especially simply touches. "Thus, the Polish campaign turned out to be quite expensive for Germany. Therefore, no further attack on the East, as subsequently repeatedly stated by Molotov and Stalin, is there was no time for speech. " Hitler was going right away without preparation for France, apparently he was confident in the success of the company despite the “terrible” losses in the Polish, but for the east, to finish off the last weak pockets of resistance of the already almost destroyed Polish army, the Wehrmacht already “didn’t” potential, complete nonsense!
    The author of the article, probably. wrote it in conjunction with Rezun. not otherwise, or under the dictation of Western historians, who, at least with ... eyes, but will still say that the Munich agreement is God's dew, but the Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact is a deal under the auspices of Satan. The result was another anti-Soviet and anti-Russian agitation.
  • Rey_ka
    Rey_ka 12 May 2017 13: 45
    0
    Quote: Doomph
    I'm afraid to assume that the author will write about the reasons for the defeat of the Warsaw Uprising ... Again, these insidious Russians.
    What is there Putin or Stalin noted?
  • polkovnik manuch
    polkovnik manuch 16 May 2017 20: 20
    0
    The article is not bad, I also saw a lot of interesting data in the comments, I read part of them for the first time. I think that the Second World War could have been avoided by working “denser” with Germany the remainder of 1939 and the first half of 1940, and as they say “what the hell is not joking” or hit “by the degree of readiness” (around the year 1943), or maybe “before we were friends, to the point that the whole world order changed, I would. But I consider it unnecessary to praise and whitewash the Poles, they have never been brothers to the Russians. And stop repenting for the Katyn events, better remember how many Red Army soldiers were tortured and executed over the years civil war in Polish concentration camps. po we all forget.
  • kunstkammer
    kunstkammer 30 May 2017 13: 26
    0
    Previously, Hitler agreed on the division of Polish territory with the Soviet leadership in the person of I.V. Stalin, so that only England and France could oppose him

    I lied at the beginning ... there will be no further faith.
    "Preliminarily," Stalin offered Poland, the Czech Republic, England, and France "opposition" against Hitler. And only after receiving a large cookie from them (except the Czech Republic - there is another problem) was forced to talk with Germany.
    "Once lied - who will believe you!"
    It is felt that the author wrote this opus to the conjuncture of the day - "In the mid-90s."
  • kunstkammer
    kunstkammer 30 May 2017 15: 50
    0
    Quote: Cartalon
    Blame accidentally pressed the minus

    and where did you find the "minus"? Explain?
  • kunstkammer
    kunstkammer 30 May 2017 22: 51
    0
    After reading this “work” of another scribe, I imagined how Hollywood depicts a Soviet officer: from afar - it looks like it looks like ... and burrs in broken Russian, but the picture will be approximated - Lord, where are you, in which pawnshops found this form? Not Bulgarian, not even what ... but a Soviet officer never looked like that!
    So this "work" is designed only for naive, drunk Pepsi undergrowth. For nothing, what is written in Russian? A lie with a claim to historicity!
    All the same, Vladimir Ilyich was right after giving an exhaustive description of such figures!