Projects of AI automata Sudaeva

In the early forties of the last century, the first domestic intermediate cartridge 7,62х39 mm was created in our country. This munition was put into service in the 1943 year and soon led to the emergence of a mass of new designs. weapons. In particular, it was possible to complete the formation of requirements for machines and begin to develop them. The first domestic machine for the first intermediate cartridge was developed by the designer A.I. Sudayev In just a few years, the gunsmith presented a number of samples of such weapons, which differed from each other by various design features. Despite the differences, all these developments are known under the common name АС-44.

Alexey Ivanovich Sudayev began work on promising small arms almost immediately after the appearance of a new intermediate cartridge. In the draft of the machine for this ammunition, it was planned to use already developed ideas and solutions of various kinds, and in addition, to introduce some new proposals. Thanks to this, in a relatively short time, it was possible to develop a draft automatic weapon, which partially met the requirements and could be used as a basis for new automatic weapons.

The first version of the machine, known as “AC-44, model 1”, was a weapon for an intermediate cartridge with automatic based on the removal of powder gases. The overall layout of the AC-44 units did not differ from other similar developments of the time or later samples. In addition, in this project were laid some ideas that are still actively used in the creation of small arms. For example, namely A.I. Sudayev proposed the use of relatively large gaps between parts that facilitate their production and improve performance.

Automaton AC-44 version "model 1"

The automatic Sudayev of the first model turned out to be rather large and heavy. Due to the use of the 505-mm barrel and the fixed wooden butt, the total length of the product was 1033 mm (excluding the bayonet), and the weight without cartridges reached 5,67 kg. One of the reasons for such a large mass was the use of a thick-walled barrel. In order to improve the characteristics of fire, the designer in all his projects used “heavy” barrels, the muzzle of which had an external diameter of the order of 18-20 mm. In the first draft, the barrel was closed with a cylindrical housing with perforations for cooling by ambient air. At the muzzle of the barrel there was a compensator.

"AC-44, model 1" used gas automatics. In the upper wall of the barrel there was a vent, through which the gases were to enter the chamber and put pressure on the piston, which was part of the bolt group. A relatively long piston tube was located above the barrel.

The piston tube, barrel and housing were mounted in a rectangular receiver. Interestingly, when developing this unit A.I. Sudayev applied the ideas previously used in the design of the PPS-43 submachine gun. So, it was proposed to mount the firing mechanism on the bottom cover of the receiver, which, in turn, could be folded down on the axis for maintenance.

Inside the receiver it was proposed to place a movable bolt group with a bolt and a piston, as well as a return spring with a guide rod. The gas piston had to fit into the tube and ensure the movement of the bolt group under the influence of gases from the barrel. It was proposed to lock the barrel by skewing the bolt in a vertical plane. An interesting feature of the АС-44, which distinguished it from some other samples of that time, was the cocking handle displayed on the left side of the weapon. The total weight of the bolt group was 715.

"Model 1" parsed

On a separate rocking base with a pistol grip and a protective bracket, it was necessary to mount the details of the firing mechanism. USM design allowed to block the descent, as well as firing single or bursts. The flag of the fuse-translator of fire was on the left side of the receiver and, with proper skill, could be controlled by the thumb of the right hand.

For the new machine, a box magazine with a double-row 30 cartridges was developed. The store was proposed to be placed in a small receiving shaft on the bottom of the receiver. Cartridges must have been thrown through a window in the right upper part of the receiver.

The sights of the AC-44 machine consisted of an open mechanical sight and a fly raised on a stand. The sight was designed for shooting at a distance of up to 800 m. The aiming line was 580 mm.

The machine should have been equipped with a fixed butt, pistol grip and a relatively short U-shaped forearm. All this accessories had to be made of wood. A curious feature of Sudayev’s early automata was the fry. It was assumed that to improve the performance of the fire, the shooter would be able to use the folding biped fry and rely on a weapon. Mount bipod was under the barrel cover, in front of the forearm. It was suggested to fold it by turning forward.

"Model 2"

Product Type AC-44 of the first type was submitted to the ground tests in May 1944. The machine gun showed itself well and demonstrated the correctness of the main ideas and solutions. However, it was not without problems and complaints. Tests have revealed the low reliability of some parts, including the drummer, the ejector, etc. Also, the customer did not approve the difficulty of disassembling weapons. According to the results of the first tests, the designer was instructed to modify the existing project in order to eliminate the deficiencies found.

By the end of summer 1944, A.I. Sudayev completed work on the second version of the AC-44. Outwardly, this automaton differed from its predecessor by another form of receiver, which had an increased height, longer head and other arrangement of some parts. Some modifications have undergone internal units. In particular, the configuration of the gas chamber changed, and the moving parts were lightened to 520. At the same time, the gas automatics and other general provisions of the project remained intact.

Changing the design of the receiver, above all, was associated with the use of a hinged cover. To access the internal units, it was now proposed to lift the box cover mounted on the axle forward-up, which greatly facilitated the maintenance of the weapon. In this case, the bottom cover of the box with the trigger, as before, could be folded down.

During the modernization has significantly changed the ergonomics of the weapon. Thus, the bolt handle was placed on the right side, and the fuse and the translator of fire were separated. The button, which blocked the trigger, was now located above the pistol grip, and the movable fire interpreter was placed inside the trigger bracket.

"Model 3"

"AC-44, model 2" had a length of 990 mm with an 485-mm barrel. Due to the processing of the structure, the weight of the weapon without ammunition was reduced to 4,775 kg. The main parameters of the machine remained at the same level, although the reliability of some of the details, previously the reason for criticism, has increased markedly.

According to the results of testing the second automaton A.I. Sudaev conducted a new revision of the project. The machine has again undergone significant alterations affecting all major details. While maintaining common solutions, the receiver was changed. In particular, the designer refused to fold the trigger mechanism. The design of the barrel casing also changed, and instead of the muzzle brake, it was proposed to use two groups of three holes drilled directly in the barrel walls as a separate part.

The moving parts of the automatics after the upgrade became heavier - their weight was 670. The bolt handle, as in the second project, was displayed on the right side of the weapon. The USM was seriously changed. Now he allowed to fire only in an automatic mode, and it was possible to shoot solo only with the appropriate skill. As a fuse, it was proposed to use a flap dust cover for the ejection window of the sleeves. There were special cuts in it to fix the bolt handle in the required position.

Refinement weapons again allowed to reduce size and weight. The third model of the AC-44 had a length (without a bayonet) 900 mm with a barrel length 400 mm. The weight of the construction with the magazine, but without the cartridges was reduced to 4,54 kg. One way to lighten the weapon was to abandon the bayonet and the bipod. In addition, the thickness of the walls of the trunk has decreased.

Automatic machine АС-44 "Model 4" intended for military trials

Tests of the third version of the machine, conducted in the autumn of 1944, showed that the product meets the requirements and can be admitted to new checks. Now it was proposed to make a batch of new automata and pass it on to the military trials. According to some information, the third version of the machine gun did not hit the troop tests. After the next checks at the site of A.I. Sudayev decided to change the design of the weapon again, as a result of which the troops had to test the fourth version of the AU-44.

The automatic machine "АС-44, model 4" was distinguished by a modified construction of wooden fittings and some other modifications. So, instead of a separate butt and forearm, a single relatively long unit made of wood was now used, which contained the lower part of the receiver. Automation weapons was slightly modified and retained the general principles of work. The trigger mechanism was once again returned to work in two modes, and the layout of its controls again changed. A fuse button appeared on the right above the pistol grip, and the flag of the fire interpreter was placed on the opposite side of the product. Finally, the bipod and bayonet were returned to the machine gun, simultaneously depriving it of the muzzle brake.

According to some information, the fourth version of the project implied the use of trunks of three types that differed in length. As a result, three versions of the weapon were presented to the tests, which are sometimes referred to as "4 model", "5 model" and "6 model". The known AC-44 samples of the fourth modification had trunks of length 490, 495 and 500 mm, because of which their length was 1010, 1030 and 1030 mm, respectively. It is noteworthy that the machine with the shortest barrel was the heaviest sample (5,47 kg), and the product with the 5,15-mm barrel had the smallest weight (500 kg).

Military test machine with a raised lid

According to various data, at least 600 machines with different types of barrels were manufactured. This weapon in the spring of 1945 was handed over to the army, where all the necessary checks were carried out. According to some sources, some of the new automata were sent to a grouping of troops deployed in Germany, and the rest were tested in the Soviet Union, in different regions of the country and, as a result, in different climatic conditions.

During the field and military tests, it was found that the AC-44 machine gun in its current form when firing at queues at a distance of up to 600 m does not differ in basic characteristics from the existing DP machine gun for a more powerful rifle cartridge. At the same time there is a serious gain in the weight of the weapon and ammunition to it. At medium distances, the submachine gun with a noticeable margin won against the pistol-machine guns in service. Nevertheless, in terms of the performance of a single lamp, the machine gun did not exceed some existing samples or even yielded to them. The designer was recommended to lighten the weapon, after which it could find a place for itself in the nomenclature of army weapons.

In October, 1945, a new version of the AU-44, also known as SLA (Sudaev Lightweight Machine), was introduced for testing. The lower weight of the structure was achieved by dismounting the bipod and the bayonet, changing the configuration of wooden parts and facilitating some metal. During the tests, it was found that the relief of weapons while maintaining the cartridge leads to a deterioration in accuracy and accuracy. In addition, there were problems with the reliability of some parts. It was necessary to rework the draft SLA in accordance with the new data on its design.

Approximately in the 1945 year (there are no exact data on this score) an experimental machine with a YE 328 serial number was manufactured. It differed from the rest of the development of the AC-44 family by its basic principles of operation. Based on the design of the fourth version of the automaton, the prototype of the YU 328 had automatics with a free gate. The barrel of the weapon had a gas outlet, which, however, was plugged. According to one of the versions, a prototype with a free gate was created for conducting experiments after the completion of troop tests of the product "AU-44, model 4".

Gate group "4 models"

Improving an SLA product could lead it to the leaders of the current program, and then lead to adoption. However, events have evolved differently. In 1946, A.I. Sudaeva struck a serious illness. Once in the hospital, the designer continued to work and improve certain nodes of his promising machine. 17 August 1946, the designer passed away at the age of 33 years. The AC-44 project in the OAC version has not been completed.

In connection with the death of the designer, the automatic machines of the AC-44 family were withdrawn from the competition. The development of these projects has been completely discontinued. Nevertheless, the ideas embodied in them did not disappear. Some solutions proposed, implemented and verified by A.I. Sudayev, later used in the creation of other projects of machines. Thus, the AU-44 did not become a weapon for the Soviet army, but to a certain extent helped other developments to find their place in the army.

Several samples of automata AI Sudaeva. Like many other unique samples, they are stored in the Tula State Museum of Weapons, as well as in the Military Historical Museum of Artillery, Engineering Troops and Communication Troops (St. Petersburg). According to reports, in two museums there are prototypes of the “1 model”, “2 model” and “3 model”, as well as three copies of the “4 model” with different trunks and a machine with a free gate. The fate of the machines released for military trials is not known for certain. Apparently, after completing the checks, they were sent to storage and later disposed of.


On the materials of the sites:
http://world.guns.ru/
http://warspot.ru/
http://bratishka.ru/
http://museum-arms.ru/
http://opoccuu.com/

Comments

[semirek]

An article about the designer-gunsmith Sudaev is very interesting! From childhood I remember from the films Sudaev’s assault rifle with a folding butt, but I did not expect that in his collection there are practically no different samples from the Kalashnikov assault rifle, if it weren’t for the sudden death of the constructor, it’s quite possible just one from his machine guns later became mass in the USSR in the postwar years.

[guzik007]

How does Ak look like Ac? Only appearance. The last close-up photo, the bolt group, this piston with the bolt could be used in a melee, like a club. Definitely a crude model, the execution is crude and clumsy. They only have automation in common on the gas principle. but by the grace of execution, they didn’t stand by.
The first developments of Sudaev, in my opinion, were more perfect (PPS) .And after the war, when there was no need to rush, it began, redo it, then remove it, etc. In the end, it turned out like that of an artist who was advised by everyone how to draw correctly.

[dkflbvbh]

Again, a stone in the garden of Kalashnikov ... How he turned blue when asked about the resemblance to the Schmeiser, and then Sudaev also appears ...

[voyaka uh]

It crossed my mind.
Either they were both so inspired by "Stug" that
made so similar (outwardly) to him (and to each other)
products, or borrowed one from another.

[ism_ek]

The very idea of ​​a machine belongs to Hugo Schmeisser. This is undeniable. After studying his weapons in the USSR in 1943, a cartridge of 7,62 × 39 mm was adopted. Several groups began to make weapons under this cartridge. Naturally, all had samples of German weapons. The Party’s mission was not to do something original, but to equip the army with new weapons as quickly as possible.

[Amurets]

Quote: ism_ek

The very idea of ​​a machine belongs to Hugo Schmeisser. This is undeniable.

The idea of ​​an automatic rifle was in the air for a long time. Smoke powder did not allow making weapons. As soon as smokeless powder appeared, the first automatic rifles appeared. This is a link to the site about the first automatic rifles.http: //www.fastmarksman.ru/52samozaryadnie_2.htm

[ism_ek]

Quote: Amurets

The idea of ​​an automatic rifle was in the air for a long time. Smoke powder did not allow making weapons. As soon as smokeless powder appeared, the first automatic rifles appeared. This is a link to the site about the first automatic rifles.

Schmeiser made an automatic rifle under an intermediate cartridge and brought the project to industrial production. In fact, he invented a new type of weapon. Structurally, the Schmeiser submachine gun repeated automatic rifles of the 20s; in essence, combat use was a completely different weapon.

[twr2]

Quote: ism_ek

Schmeiser made an automatic rifle under an intermediate cartridge

Schmeiser did not make an automatic rifle under an intermediate cartridge. It was made in the USA only in the 60s of the last century.

Quote: ism_ek

In fact, he invented a new type of weapon.

Not even funny. The same AF Gen2 (in the Russian cartridge Arisaka) was a typical representative of this "new type of weapon". Only the StG44 is even worse due to the fact that the caliber was not chosen incorrectly.
The only know-how of the MP43 / StG44 was the 7,92 × 33mm Kurz special cartridge. Those. Not only did the Germans make strange weapons, they also made them expensive.

[ism_ek]

Fedorov assault rifle is a type of automatic rifle. The 6,5 × 50 mm cartridge was an ordinary rifle cartridge.

[twr2]

Quote: ism_ek

The 6,5 × 50 mm cartridge was an ordinary rifle cartridge.

Try to prove it somehow. Given that the DE bullet AF GEN2 was 1960 J (see the appendix).
If you are hinting at the dimensions of the sleeve, then this is empty. The sleeve determines only the loading density, and that’s it.

Quote: ism_ek

Fedorov assault rifle is a type of automatic rifle.

The term "automatic rifle" has had different meanings over the years. In today's terminology, the AF was never an automatic rifle. But at the same time he was always a machine gun. The same applies equally to the AK-47 / AK / AKM along with the MP43 / StG44.
As for the AK-74, M16A1 and M16A2, these are both automatic rifles and machine guns.

[ism_ek]

Fedorov automatic rifle

[twr2]

Quote: ism_ek

Fedorov automatic rifle

And what's the point of the picture?

[ism_ek]

Self-loading rifle SVT-38

[ism_ek]

Schmeiser and Kalashnikov

[alexey garbuz]

And what are the insides identical? In weapons, the main thing is the idea, and the interior decoration can be completely different. You can also convince the public that the Americans licked the M-15 from Sudaev’s machine gun. Or vice versa?

[Serg koma]

Quote: ism_ek

Schmeiser and Kalashnikov

Exercise "Partial disassembly and assembly of Kalashnikov assault rifles" apparently you do not know ... You probably draw conclusions only by "external signs of gender", is there a trunk? is there a "fly"? is there a store? -there is, then all small arms are twins brothers

[Droid]

The 6,5 mm caliber cartridge developed by Fedorov was precisely a rifle, the initial bullet speed was 860 m / s with a mass of 8,5 g. The fact that the rifle was later converted to another cartridge does not cancel this fact.

[twr2]

Quote: Droid

The fact that then the rifle was remade under a different cartridge does not cancel this fact.

A weapon is primarily a cartridge. If a completely different cartridge is used, then the weapon will be different. Do not confuse AF GEN1 and AF GEN2.
Although, in fact, all this is a convention. AF GEN1 simply was not there. And AF, in our understanding of this term, is actually GEN2 AF (on the domestic cartridge of Arisaka).

[twr2]

Quote: Amurets

this is a link to the site about the first automatic rifles

There is only 1 automatic rifle (heavy) in the modern sense of the term, this is BAR. For some reason it is written that they were "converted into light machine guns." This is not the case, because BAR stands for Browning Automatic Rifle.
The rest, or just self-loading, or self-loading with the ability to select a shooting mode. The first light automatic army rifle was designed only in the 60s of the last century. It was called M16A1.

[the villain]

Quote: ism_ek

The very idea of ​​a machine belongs to Hugo Schmeisser. It is undeniable

Sorry, but this is still controversial! The Russian gunsmith Fedorov in 1916 developed a sample of automatic small arms under the 6,5mm cartridge "Arisaka" (2600 J, by comparison, 7.62 \ 39 intermediate cartridge 2100 J) with a detachable magazine for 25 rounds, behind which the name "Fedorov's automatic machine" is rooted. a rifle, not an assault rifle and not a light machine gun, mind you, but an AUTOMATIC! The product took part in WWI, but did not become widespread due to the complexity of the design, low-tech and low quality of construction materials of that time. And yet Fedorov was the first, only in 1918 did Hugo Schmeiser show the world his MP18 submachine gun, and only in 1943 did the Sturmgever appear

[twr2]

Quote: Villain

(2600 j, in comparison, 7.62 \ 39 intermediate cartridge 2100 j)

2570 J betrayed Arisaka on Japanese gunpowder and a barrel of 800 mm.
On Russian gunpowder and a barrel of 520 mm (in Gen2 AF), the energy of the bullet was 1960 J.

Quote: Villain

not an automatic rifle, not a shtkrmovoy carbine and not a light machine gun, mind you, but AUTOMATIC!

Automatic, this is a broad concept. This includes everything automatic, from a shortened rifle to a submachine gun. Belonging, for example, PPSh to machine guns, does not prevent him from being at the same time a submachine gun.

Quote: Villain

only in 1918, Hugo Schmeiser showed the world his submachine gun MP18

And only Browning in 1918 has its own BAR (Browning Automatic Rifle - Browning automatic rifle).

[twr2]

Quote: ism_ek

The very idea of ​​a machine belongs to Hugo Schmeisser.

If "automatic", then clearly not Schmeiser.
If a strange product called MP43 / StG44, then it is visible to him. A very strange product for some strange purpose.
The Americans also had such a "mystery product". It was called M1 / ​​M2 Carbine. It is very difficult to understand the true purpose (initial idea) of the MP43 / StG44, or the M1 / ​​M2 Carbine.

[Alex]

Quote: ism_ek

The very idea of ​​a machine belongs to Hugo Schmeisser. This is undeniable.

I, stupid, thought Fedorov ... Thank you, enlightened.

[Red_Hamer]

The very idea of ​​a machine belongs to Hugo Schmeisser. It is undeniable

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8L4Rga-5shA ( Очень познавательный фильм, рекомендую. Там популярно про то, когда, и как зародилась идея, да и вообще, полезно для саморазвития.)

[Red_Hamer]

Also, the dock serial "Domestic Small Arms" (film 3 Machine guns) There is detailed, popular, versatile! Told, shown, explained, explained. On YouTube, there is.

[Red_Hamer]

Even the very name "Automatic" belongs to Fedorov. Since 1916, the team of the 189th Izmail Infantry Regiment of the 48th Infantry Division has received 45 Fedorov assault rifles of 6,5 mm caliber and 8 assault rifles of 7,62 mm caliber. The Fedorov assault rifle was also used in aviation (it was used by the crews of the Ilya Muromets heavy bombers), where it was an onboard weapon for pilots. It was planned to re-equip with automatic weapons, first of all, the shock units of the army.

[Red_Hamer]

That's what the Germans in 1916 scribbled reports to the leadership about the use of unknown, automatic weapons by the Russians on the fronts.

[Serg koma]

Quote: ism_ek

The Party’s mission was not to make something original, а as soon as possible equip the army with new weapons.

Contradict yourself. What prevented just copying? Why did you have to spend TIME and money on development?
So your version of the "copying" of the German machine gun by the Sudaevs and Kalashnikovs is refuted by your own reasoning.

[SVAROZHICH]

The first submachine gun assault rifle is Fedorov's submachine gun (later it was remade under Arisaki's cartridge since a lot of these cartridges were stored in warehouses after the Russo-Japanese War), the Schmeisser has the idea of ​​working automatics to divert part of the powder gases from the barrel channel, but not the submachine gun itself.

[2s1122]

In the arms business it’s hard not to borrow something with refinement and changes, it's like a bow (not onion ) there are many countries and the form is the same.

[Leto]

Quote: voyaka uh

or borrowed one from the other.

It is doubtful that everyone believes that after the death of Sudaev, all of his developments were sent to the museum, and the documentation to the archive.
For me, it always remains an open question who got the inheritance of Sudaev, who received a free gift in the form of ready-made calculations and working samples with the reports of the testers.

[svp67]

Quote: Leto

For me, it always remains an open question who got the inheritance of Sudaev, who received a free gift in the form of ready-made calculations and working samples with the reports of the testers.

In the USSR, ALL KB received information about what their vis-a-vi do. So the system was built. And Kalashnikov NEVER HIDDEN that he had spied on many ideas from Sudaev, and generally considered him his teacher.

[the villain]

Quote: voyaka uh

Either they were both so inspired by "Stug"

Then write Eugene Stoner to their company to the heap.

[twr2]

Quote: voyaka uh

Either they were both so inspired by "Stug" that

The source of inspiration is incomprehensible. Those. it is not clear that the StG44 was so good that one could be inspired by it.
Only in the USSR and were inspired, there were no more people willing. And in the USSR they were "inspired" only until the 70s. Then they poured to "friends" for kisses in the gums of "dear Leonid Ilyich".

[Come on]

Wasn't Hugo Schmeiser at that time on Izhmash? I do not want to say of course that he developed the AK, but he could have a hand in it. After all, by that time he was an experienced gunsmith, and Kalashnikov was still very young ..

[Red_Hamer]

Dock serial "Domestic small arms" (film 3 Automatic machines) There is detailed, popular, versatile! Told, shown, explained, explained. On YouTube, there is.

[Droid]

And where does Izhmash? Izhmash has nothing to do with the creation of AK.

[Red_Hamer]

And where does Izhmash? Izhmash has nothing to do with the creation of AK

Thank you, at least someone knows that AK was developed in Kovrov.

[Red_Hamer]

Wasn't Hugo Schmeiser at that time on Izhmash? I do not want to say of course that he developed the AK, but he could have a hand in it. After all, by that time he was an experienced gunsmith, and Kalashnikov was still very young.

It was on Izhmash that Schmeiser was. But Kalashnikov, at that time created AK in Kovrov

[Come on]

Well, thanks for the clarification. But all the same, the fact of the presence and activities of Hugo Schmeiser in the Soviet defense is still present. After all, he did not work as an ordinary locksmith. Surely all the same, he contributed as other specialists from Germany in missile, nuclear and other programs.

[Alf]

Quote: Yeah, well.

After all, by that time he was an experienced gunsmith,

There was recently an article about the "creativity" of H. Schmeisser in the USSR, so there is a document that as a designer of weapons H. Sh. does not represent anything special.

[Come on]

With his arms, the entire Wehrmacht ran, so that a dubious document, like an article ..

[bunta]

Quote: Yeah, well.

With his weapon, the whole Wehrmacht ran

from the Soviet army. Since the 44 of the year, as a storm trooper, they have been adopted. And ran. But I don’t remember other models of the XIII which are in service with the Wehrmacht. Do not tell me?

[Come on]

Forgot what the common people called "Schmeiser"? What does Stg44 have to do with it? But the cons of sticking it out is yes ..

[bunta]

Quote: Yeah, well.

among the common people "Schmeiser" was called

a work of engineering by Geipel and Vollmer MP-38 / 40.
But the store in this "Schmeisser" was just Schmeisser's - the most buggy detail in this machine.

[Zaurbek]

And why they are not inspired by Shtug, this is the first mass machine under an intermediate cartridge, reliable, accurate. If Germany had not retired after the Second World War, it would have been as widespread as the M16 and AK.
Who zealously minus ...! Hoopoe!

[bunta]

Quote: Zaurbek

reliable,

in which place?

[ism_ek]

Quote: dkflbvbh

Again, a stone in the garden of Kalashnikov ... How he turned blue when asked about the resemblance to Schmeiser

Yes, he did not turn blue. The AK-47 is nothing original. The merit of the designer is that he intuitively collected the most successful model by creatively processing many types of weapons.

The merit of Schmeiser is that he made a rifle under an intermediate cartridge. Nothing original in the design of his machine either. He took a 29-year-old ZH-20 self-loading rifle and remade it under a smaller cartridge. Range decreased sharply, but weight also decreased. The number of rounds has increased. Armory turned out to be more practical. This is what Kalashnikov took from Schmeiser. Everything else in the AK-47 is different. It is made on the basis of Soviet developments and not German.

[voyaka uh]

"There is nothing original about the AK-47" ////

Is.
The main "feature" of the AK is the heavy rotary bolt
with large gaps. He confidently "rolls" the dirt and lets the weapon
do not misfire.
On the other hand, he will unbalance the weapon, making it difficult to aim the shot.

The M-16, exactly the opposite: the shutter is light, the gaps are minimal, the weapon is perfect
balanced along the axis of the barrel, but ... dirt causes misfires, unloading of the cartridge.

[twr2]

Quote: voyaka uh

On the other hand, he will unbalance the weapon, making it difficult to aim the shot.

While AK performed in the form of a self-loading assault rifle with the possibility of automatic fire (AK-47 / AK / AKM), it did not matter. Another question is why it was so carried out, but not about that yet.
The trouble came later, when they decided to convert it into an automatic individual weapon (AK-74). And here all the flaws of the "ingenious and only correct mechanism" got out. Based on it, they could not make an automatic army rifle, because failed to balance its mechanism. As a result, the cartridge was weakened to the limit (the recoil momentum was reduced), but only an assault automatic rifle turned out. And it is also not very well balanced, to this day they hold contests and try to balance something there.

Quote: voyaka uh

but ... the dirt causes misfires, unloading of the cartridge.

The problem is solved by simply twitching the shutter. But the advantages are obvious.

[Droid]

AK easy shutter - 72 g.

[the villain]

Quote: ism_ek

The AK-47 is nothing original. The merit of the designer is that he intuitively collected the most successful model by creatively processing many types of weapons.

The AK turned out to be simple and reliable, inexpensive and technologically advanced. Both in Vietnam and Iraq, the US occupiers very willingly used it, if there was an opportunity, instead of their promoted m 16. And the merit of Mikhail Timofeevich should not be overestimated, the person was not working for the "cash", the person worked as best he could for the good of the Motherland. And he did great

[twr2]

Quote: Villain

In both Vietnam and Iraq, the US occupiers were very willing to use it, if there was an opportunity, instead of their own PR 16

Why use an ersatz of army weapons (the so-called assault, this is an ersatz of a full-fledged army weapon) if you have high-quality standard weapons?

[the villain]

Quote: twr2

Why use an ersatz of army weapons (the so-called assault, this is an ersatz of a full-fledged army weapon) if you have high-quality standard weapons?

As I understand it, did you mean AK by ersatz? Well, you need to use it because this "ersatz" works in any conditions, it tolerates snow and dirt and water, and heat and frost well (this does not mean that it does not need to be cleaned at all) forgives such operating conditions under which "quality standard weapon" invites the soldier to study materiel. And I don’t want to mess with the M16, not so long ago I had a chance to shoot from an ar15, a Molotov assembly, yes, nice, grasping, good balance, but, IMHO, this is a weapon for a shooting range, for a base where there is asphalt on all tracks, where there is no dirt, and I'd rather take SCS to the forest

[Come on]

Mattresses, especially specialists, use AKs not because they are better than their regular weapons, but for sound disguise. This confuses the enemy when he hears the roar of AK and so the enemy thinks they are shooting their own and no longer expects danger from that side. Notice, almost always in urban battles, or in the jungle, the battlefield, like a chessboard, fights in parallel and on top of each other. The second reason is ammunition, because a group, even if it’s specialists, can’t carry away as much ammunition as an enemy who has an advantage in manpower. Well, the third reason is that the AK is a brutal melee assault rifle, where it is not necessary to conduct aimed fire at distances over 300m. The first two points are from the words of the special forces themselves. I thought of the third one, do not blame me :) But I think I’m not very mistaken if I say that Kalash put fire barriers in city battles well, so that others with more accurate assault rifles can better concentrate on aimed fire.

[spech]

Mattresses, especially specialists, use AKs not because they are better than their regular weapons, but for sound disguise.

taking into account the probability of catching a bullet from your own?

[twr2]

Quote: ism_ek

The merit of Schmeiser is that he made a rifle under an intermediate cartridge.

And Fedorov long before Schmeiser made a rifle under an intermediate cartridge. What is the merit of both?
For the first time (in the 20s), the USSR with Fedorov's product carried it. It is understandable who Fedorov is. And the second time, the USSR hit it off at full speed. Well, of course, since the "smart Germans" did it for themselves, so we need it. Only now the Germans have learned how to make a shooter not so long ago. And in the middle of the last century, they themselves still had a lot to learn. And in this area they could not be copied in any way.

Quote: ism_ek

This is what Kalashnikov took from Schmeiser.

Kalashnikov took from Schmeiser (or someone else, after the war many Germans worked in the USSR) the entire product. Rather, he did not take, but gave. Authorities, and by order. His product was eliminated from the competition at the first stage with the wording "not subject to revision." And the German product urgently needed a "domestic author". This is how it all worked out somehow. Presumably, of course. Even if we find out the truth about this, it will take a long time.

[Assistant]

Kalashnikov took the product completely and completely from Schmeiser (or someone else, after the war many Germans worked in the USSR). Rather, he didn’t take it, but they gave it.

AK and StG combine only 3 interesting engineering solutions:
1) the use of an intermediate cartridge. Well, it wasn’t Schmeiser who came up with it, even in a Fedorov assault rifle a cartridge was used with 2500-2600 J on foreign powder;
2) leading the shutter shutter frame. Again, nothing new, so even Garand had - a regular rifle (and carbine) of the US Army, by the way;
3) a long stroke of a piston rigidly connected to the bolt carrier. I agree, this is an interesting moment. And here I will ask knowledgeable people to enlighten me: were there before StG models with a gas piston tightly connected to the bolt frame.
Well, albeit there wasn’t even item 3. Total: 1 (one!) New engineering solution.

[twr2]

Quote: Assistant

AK and StG combine only 3 interesting engineering solutions:

And why did you decide that the StG and AK-47 should have some common features? From 1945 to 1949 there was a lot of time to remake weapons in a new way.
Or do you suppose that German riflemen hung out in the USSR for many years just for fun?
You will not deny that the Kalashnikov assault rifle was rejected in the first round without the right to be finalized? Or will you?
By the way, I do not understand the obstinacy about "AK-47, this is purely ours." The family is clearly unsuccessful and the USSR later (in the 70s) itself actually recognized this. So why bother him so?
And the next family is not quite conditional just because of the presence of "the only correct mechanism" (they did not dare to replace it). Those. somehow there are no signs of well-known genius, that's the catch.

[Assistant]

You will not deny that the Kalashnikov assault rifle was rejected in the first round without the right to be finalized? Or will you?

I will not.
My personal opinion is that AK contains more than half of the Bulkin assault rifle.
And in Bulkin’s assault rifle, more than half of Sudaev’s assault rifle model 2.

[twr2]

Quote: Assistant

AK more than half of the machine gun Bulkin.
And in Bulkin’s assault rifle, more than half of Sudaev’s assault rifle model 2

There is no mood to argue with those who are mink.

[bunta]

ZB-26 is not only a frame with a piston but also a skewed shutter. Only up.

[Proxima]

Quote: ism_ek

The AK-47 is nothing original.

When Degtyarev briefly familiarized himself with the design of an unknown "unoriginal" AK-47 in competitive tests, he literally said the following: "MY AUTOMATIC IS NOTHING TO DO IN THIS COMPETITION."

[Assistant]

The AK-47 is nothing original.

Please tell me where before AK were applied:
1) drilling a gas outlet at an angle towards the gas chamber?
2) preliminary stragging of the spent sleeve before removing it?
3) giving the bolt frame the functions of a cover for ejecting sleeves, a loading handle, a reflector for ejected sleeves and a device forcing a cartridge into the chamber (I judge by M16), and all at the same time?
Thanks in advance.

[Proxima]

In 1942, the first prototype of the machine was shown to the outstanding scientist in the field of small arms, the head of the Military Engineering Academy. Dzerzhinsky Blagonravov A. A. The first thing he noted is the ORIGINALITY of the design.

[twr2]

Quote: Proxima

outstanding scientist in the field of small arms

What was outstanding about him? Front or rear issued? Top or bottom?
In the country, a rifle (as an option, a pistol, cannon, tank, plane, etc.) could not be made normal, but "outstanding weapons scientists" were like fleas on a dog. And there were countless "outstanding designers". Yes, and more "generals".

[Proxima]

Quote: twr2

Quote: Proxima

outstanding scientist in the field of small arms

What was outstanding about him? Front or rear issued? Top or bottom?
In the country, a rifle (as an option, a pistol, cannon, tank, plane, etc.) could not be made normal, but "outstanding weapons scientists" were like fleas on a dog. And there were countless "outstanding designers". Yes, and more "generals".

Blagonravov A.A. Academician of the Academy of Sciences of the USSR, Twice Hero of Socialist Labor, 5 (!!!) Orders of Lenin, 3 Orders of the Red Banner, Lenin Prize - you will not list everything! Make at least a millionth of what he did, BEFORE TROLLING,

[twr2]

Quote: Proxima

Academician of the USSR Academy of Sciences, Twice Hero of Socialist Labor, 5 (!!!) Orders of Lenin, 3 Orders of the Red Banner, Lenin Prize

I did not ask about the received "elephants". I'm specifically talking about the created samples of small arms. Which basically were not, despite the regalia of everyone in a row.
And what about the awards, there were a lot of such "outstanding" ones. The main "outstanding", of course, was "dear Leonid Ilyich." The more caricatured the country, the more tsatsak on the breasts are well-deserved and even not so much.

Quote: Proxima

Make at least a millionth of what he did

So you’ll give at least something as an example, a weapons and rifle is desirable, because you pass him off as a gunsmith scientist. I’ll divide it by a million, I’ll estimate ... a finger to the nose, and maybe I’ll start to troll. It may be time long ago.
And to whistle waving "correct pieces of paper" is not an argument.

[Proxima]

Quote: twr2

And to whistle waving "correct pieces of paper" is not an argument.

Well, of course ... Maybe this, in your opinion, is an argument?

Quote: twr2

In the country, a rifle (as an option, a pistol, a cannon, a tank, an airplane, etc.) could not be made normal, but "outstanding weapons scientists" were like fleas on a dog.

"Strongly", you will not say anything! Did we not produce decent weapons? And what do you think we have broken the backbone of the whole continental Europe? Oh yes, they filled up with corpses, shtrfbats and barrage units to boot! I have a question for you: WHERE ARE YOU COMING SO DEFECTIVE !? Without conscience, which is the worst thing for you, without intelligence! Look, the curators will expel you soon. To troll, you also need brains.

[twr2]

Quote: Proxima

Have we got decent weapons?

Not issued. Right until the middle of 1943 not issued at all. Since mid-1943 business began to gradually move off the ground and the USSR gradually began to produce new and more or less adequate types of weapons. Much less than the Germans, who began their rearmament in early 1942. But even so, than nothing at all. The difference in the production of new and adequate types of weapons had to be compensated for in the way familiar to the USSR. You know how.
Moreover, this rearmament did not concern riflemen at all, there more or less conscious movements began only in the 70s of the last century.

Quote: Proxima

what do you think we broke the ridge of all of continental Europe?

Do not fantasize. Independently of the USSR, probably until 1943. I would not live. Right for a variety of reasons (their list is long).
And what about "what", so it is known what exactly was the contribution of the USSR to the victory over Nazism.

Quote: Proxima

WHERE ARE YOU SUCH DEFECTIVE TAKE !?

Are you looking in the mirror asking a question?

Quote: Proxima

Without conscience, the worst thing for you, without intelligence! Look, the curators will expel you soon. To troll, brains are also needed.

Apparently you are corny stupid. Ie, sorry, like a cork. Once you allow yourself to write such things.

[twr2]

Quote: twr2

USSR for sure

The word "almost" between the two has gone somewhere. Yet it is only shamans who know exactly what could be in one or another version of the alternative reality. I'm not a shaman.

[Dam]

Hey DB, are you too lazy to log in every time? You are regularly, after every shit eruption, demolished from here and in every weapon topic, you climb with the stubbornness of a maniac. Who are you counting on? Your stupid vysers cannot confuse anyone here. And if you get paid for it, then you just spend the money in vain. Go already, ovp propin.doskoe, find a job or something.

[svp67]

To all supporters of the tale that "AK" was created by Hugo Schmeisser, read this article very carefully, pay special attention to the dates of creation of prototypes, and then you will finally understand who actually was the person who can rightfully be called "godfather father of "AK"

[ism_ek]

Quote: svp67

particular attention to prototype creation dates

And do not forget that Sudaev worked in Leningrad. Apparently this fact seriously affected his life expectancy. The enterprise where he worked was private, the ration was scarce.

[Uncle Murzik]

and then what were private enterprises in the USSR?

[ism_ek]

Quote: Uncle Murzik

and then what were private enterprises in the USSR?

More than a half. Only the capitalists were not formally. Means of production belonged to employees of the artel or collective farm in equal shares. State-owned industrial giants. Small-scale production, grenades, machine gun pistols, clothes, dishes, etc. made private cooperatives.
Khrushchev covered everything up because of the large number of financial violations. Under Stalin, the plunderers were "simply acted upon", so the system worked.

[twr2]

Quote: ism_ek

More than a half. Only the capitalists were not formally.

After the NEP in the USSR there were no private enterprises. There were collective farms and artels in which formally everything belonged to members of these organizations. But in fact it was a fiction. The chairpersons were appointed in the district committee. They were given a plan, exactly the same as formally to state-owned enterprises. Those. the difference was on paper, and nothing more.

Quote: ism_ek

Small-scale production, grenades, machine gun pistols, clothes, dishes, etc. made private cooperatives.

In fact, mostly dishes and other small things. Only during the Second World War, some of them mastered the production of ammunition and the same PPS. On the instructions of the authorities, of course.

Quote: ism_ek

Khrushchev covered everything up due to a large number of financial irregularities.

Just called a spade a spade. And in agricultural he wanted to honestly call collective farms state farms, but he didn’t.

[Alf]

Quote: Uncle Murzik

and then what were private enterprises in the USSR?

There were no PRIVATE, were ARTEL or, in modern, joint-stock companies.

[twr2]

Quote: ism_ek

The enterprise where he worked was private, the ration was scarce.

NIPSVO (Small Arms Research Range), is this a private enterprise? And the fact that he was on a business trip in Leningrad from the end of 1942 to the summer of 1943, I do not think that somehow affected his health.

[twr2]

Quote: svp67

who actually was the person who can rightfully be called the "godfather" of "AK"

And what does Sudaev’s design have to do with AK’s design?

[Uncle Murzik]

now the "experts" will start screaming that Sudaev stole the ideas from Schmeisser!

[Amurets]

Quote: Uncle Murzik

now the "experts" will start screaming that Sudaev stole the ideas from Schmeisser!

And what will they say when they learn that the PPS-43 was produced during the war years in Germany MR.709 and Finland M-44 chambered for 9X19 Parabellum. And since 1953 the FRG has been in service with the border troops and gendarmerie. Bolotin, "History of Soviet Small Arms and Ammunition."
About the machine? It's a pity that such a talented designer died so early and didn't bring his brainchild to a series. And what about Schmeisser? Everyone who understands weapons knows that the developments of the Henel (Genel) company where Hugo Schmeisser worked have nothing to do with the work of Sudaev and Kalashnikov. Popenker "Assault Rifles of the World".

[twr2]

Quote: Amurets

upon learning that PPS-43 was produced during the war in Germany MP.709

Only David Bolotin is aware of such weapons. No one else knows about him. The Germans used the captured PPS-43, they had them called MP.719 (r).

Quote: Amurets

Finland M-44 chambered for 9X19 parabellum

I believe about the Finns. Those with weapons in general were very bad, worse than the Germans. And with manufacturing facilities, too. Therefore, they could do something like PPP because of its primitiveness. But this would not be PPP, another cartridge and TTX others.

Quote: Amurets

nothing to do with the works of Sudaev and Kalashnikov

With the one that the commission rejected with the wording "not subject to revision"?

Quote: Amurets

Popenker "Assault Rifles of the World".

Oh yeah. Now everything is clear.

[volodya]

A good machine for its time, inexpensive and very easy to manufacture!

[Dimon19661]

Thanks, good article.

[dmitrii.safonov.dm]

Thank you for the article! And to be honest, I think that Sudaev is undeservedly forgotten or silent!

[Amurets]

Quote: dmitrii.safonov.dm

Thank you for the article! And to be honest, I think that Sudaev is undeservedly forgotten or silent!

I would not say so. This is a link to a book about Sudaev.http: //book-free.net/publ/48-1-0-1792
And in the special literature a lot has been written about him. Malimon. "Domestic automata". Monetchikov. "History" The history of the Russian automaton. .G.

[demiurg]

It is a pity that he left so early. Judging by the faculty, this was a very talented person.

[Partisan Kramaha]

Quote: Uncle Murzik

now the "experts" will start screaming that Sudaev stole the ideas from Schmeisser!

I won’t tell about anyone who stole it, but locking by a skew of the shutter, if sclerosis didn’t change me, was also on Stg.44. In the fifth model, Sudaev returned to the free shutter, which, in my opinion, normally works only on PC.

[Amurets]

Quote: Partizan Kramaha

As for whoever stole from someone I won’t say, but locking by a skewed shutter, if sclerosis does not change me, was also on Stg. 44.

If the sclerosis doesn’t change me, it was already used in the Czechoslovak ZH-29 rifle, which was put into production in 1929. I didn’t look for pistols, but I think this method of locking was used much earlier, so this is not Hugo Schmeisser's choice.
http://weaponland.ru/publ/podvizhnaja_sistema_avtomatiki_strelkovogo_oruzhija/17

-1-0-221
http://www.hunting.ru/articles/view/26673/

[Tim]

Sudaev’s rifles were made in besieged Leningrad, if I’m not mistaken. ?????

[Red_Hamer]

Sudaev’s rifles were made in besieged Leningrad, if I’m not mistaken. ?????

In the beginning, at the Sestroretsk plant, not submachine guns, but submachine guns. PPP broke all records in terms of efficiency. Only 6,2 kg of metal was spent on the production of Sudaev’s submachine gun and 2,7 A production of new submachine guns could be arranged even in small enterprises with low-power equipment. Most parts were stamped.

[Tim]

Thanks for the information.

[voyaka uh]

This machine was truly outstanding!
Why mass production of PPSh, but not it, is a mystery.
In the Middle East, he is still on track along his
an Egyptian copy of Port Said.

[ism_ek]

Quote: voyaka uh

Why mass production of PPSh, but not it, is a mystery.

PPSh was not bad either. The Germans massively used it.
PPSh began to produce earlier. First time teaching staff was done only in besieged Leningrad. Capacities there were limited. Massively they began to produce it only at the end of the war. And so the number of issued PPSh and PPS are comparable. 6 and 2 million pieces

[voyaka uh]

PPSh became very decent when they replaced the drive with a magazine.
the disc copied from "Suomi" turned out to be too
difficult to manufacture. It was necessary at the factories individually
(with a file) fit 2 discs to "your" machine.
But the Germans with individual automatic weapons were bad
affairs. T.N. "Schmeiser" MP-40 received more Waffen SS, and the Wehrmacht remained
with Mauser-98. In addition, the "Schmeiser" shop worked only with lubricant and
froze in the winter.
Therefore, the Germans really took PPSh willingly

[twr2]

Quote: voyaka uh

Why mass production of PPSh, but not it, is a mystery.

Because PCA was better in almost everything. PPP had only a couple of advantages; it could be done in almost every basement. And inexpensive. But his performance characteristics were not so good. PPSh is better.

[Alf]

Quote: voyaka uh

Why mass production of PPSh, but not it, is a mystery.

PPP is not suitable for melee due to lack of stock.

[twr2]

Quote: Tima

Sudaev’s rifles were made in besieged Leningrad, if I’m not mistaken. ??

1. Moscow Machine-Building Plant. Kalmykov (aka "Schetmash", plant "SAM").
volume of output: 531 359 pieces.
release period: from October 1942 to July 1, 1945.
2. Plant them. Kulakova (Leningrad)
volume of production 98 298 pieces.
3. Tool factory them. Voskova (Sestroretsk plant in evacuation, at the Sestroretsk plant in Leningrad, the teaching staff did not do)
volume of output 35 158 pieces
4. Artel "Primus" (Leningrad)
volume of output 54 456 pieces
5. Tbilisi, tool factory (S. Monetchikov).
6. Tbilisi, steam locomotive repair plant (S. Monetchikov).
The last 2 are presumably according to S. Monetschikov, but there are 6 different types of hallmarks at faculty, this is unique.

[Old26]

Article PLUS. Thanks to the author. It was always interesting to read not only about the "final product", but about how they got there. And it doesn't matter if it is a machine gun, a tank or a rocket

[PPD]

Quote: Red_Hamer

In the beginning, at the Sestroretsk plant, not submachine guns, but submachine guns. PPP broke all records in terms of efficiency. The production of Sudaev submachine gun consumed only 6,2 kg of metal and 2,7

Swap numbers.
And sometimes they were called machine guns too. So that's right.

[Verdun]

The machine, apparently, was still raw. But the designer is sorry. He was a talented person and much more could be done. The article is good, thanks to the author.

[Alex]

Quote: Verdun

The machine, apparently, was still raw.

Of course, a person, after all, gradually walked from one model to another, testing and improving the design. Yes, death prevented it from ending. And so everything is fine, ordinary scientific or design search.

[grandson of the hero]

The design flaw is due to a catastrophic lack of time. A person’s talent is simply huge. A special thanks to the second article.

[vkl.47]

Quote: ism_ek

The very idea of ​​a machine belongs to Hugo Schmeisser. This is undeniable. After studying his weapons in the USSR in 1943, a cartridge of 7,62 × 39 mm was adopted. Several groups began to make weapons under this cartridge. Naturally, all had samples of German weapons. The Party’s mission was not to do something original, but to equip the army with new weapons as quickly as possible.

The very idea belongs to Fedorof. Kalash with a Schmeiser. They look like only a store. And so one works from the exhaust of gases and the second due to the half-free shutter

[fider]

The principle of operation of AK automation is based on the use of energy of powder gases discharged through the upper hole in the barrel wall.
Automation StG 44 is a gas-vent type with the removal of powder gases through an opening in the barrel wall. The barrel bore is locked by skewing the shutter in a vertical plane.

[twr2]

Quote: fider

based on the use of energy of powder gases discharged

Quote: fider

gas type with removal of powder gases

There is nothing new compared to the Mondragon rifle patented in 1887.

[Robert Nevsky]

Good machine! Sudaev was an outstanding designer!

[mroy]

Quote: ism_ek

The very idea of ​​a machine belongs to Hugo Schmeisser. This is undeniable.

More than debatable, even fundamentally wrong. Hugo Schmeisser owns the authorship of the first production machine, adopted as the main weapon of the infantryman - but Schmeisser himself does not deserve this.
And before him, Louis Stange made an automatic rifle FG-42 for paratroopers.
And the first production machine was made by Fedorov, long before Schmeisser - but it was supposed to be a means of increasing the density of fire for infantry.
The very idea of ​​an intermediate cartridge is the 1890s, but I don’t remember the author.

[Amurets]

Quote: mroy

The very idea of ​​an intermediate cartridge is the 1890s, but I don’t remember the author.

The first intermediate cartridges were designed at Winchester in the 1860s, but the military did not like them and did not receive distribution in the army. The second attempt to introduce an intermediate cartridge was in the Russian Empire. V. G. Fedorov designed a 6,5 mm intermediate cartridge for his machine gun and cartridges were tested, but the First World War began and all work on automatic weapons had to be stopped. Later, for his machine gun, Fedorov adapted cartridges from the Japanese rifle "Arisaka".

Quote: Mikado

There was another designer, whose name is not heard - Korovin. By the way, in Wikipedia, an article about his machine gun, issued in a small series in 1941, fully refers to the materials of "Topvar".

Not only Korovin. There were designers Roschepey, Rakov, Voevodin. The works of all these four are mentioned in Bolotin's book "History of Soviet small arms and cartridges."

[mroy]

Quote: Amurets

.VG Fedorov designed a 6,5mm intermediate cartridge for his assault rifle. The assault rifle and cartridges were tested, but the First World War began and all work on automatic weapons had to be stopped. Later, for his assault rifle, Fedorov adapted cartridges from a Japanese rifle. "Arisaka".

And you will not tell a source about the development of an intermediate cartridge by Fedorov, I just read everywhere that Fedorov originally made an automatic machine chambered for 7,62X54, but in order to reduce the weight of the weapon and increase the ammunition load, he used a cartridge from Arisaki 6,5, which had the most suitable his opinion parameters. And on the intermediate cartridge he had only theoretical work.

[bunta]

Quote: mroy

And you will not prompt a source

From the author "In Search of Weapons." :)

[twr2]

Quote: mroy

but in order to reduce the weight of weapons and increase wearable ammunition used a cartridge from Arisaki 6,5

1. First, a non-native bullet with 6,5 mm potassium was inserted into the Mauser’s sleeve, having received 3071 J. on the barrel. Shooting automatically cannot be fired for many reasons.
2. Then he applied the domestic cartridge Arisaka. As a result, on a 520 mm barrel received 1960 J of energy and a recoil momentum of 7,44 kgm / s. It was possible to shoot automatically with fire, but it was still impossible to get into a normal battle. Only if 100 meters.
On this, the experiments stopped altogether.

Quote: mroy

And on the intermediate cartridge he had only theoretical work.

The cartridge with DE 1960 J is intermediate. The size of the cartridge does not affect the cartridge characteristic.

[twr2]

Quote: Amurets

V.G.Fyodorov constructed a 6,5mm level intermediate cartridge for his machine gun.

Fedorov did not construct anything in between.
The first time he inserted a step-step bullet into Mauser’s sleeve. And he tried to get an automatic weapon with a bullet energy of almost 3100 J. Of course, he did not succeed. And his rifle was set aside with a knee.
The second time he took a standard Arisak cartridge on Russian gunpowder and also tried to get automatic weapons. This time, given the energy of the bullet around 2000 J, it turned out better. And even it was possible to shoot automatic fire towards the enemy. But a strong impulse of return came out, which Fedorov could not cope with (and no one could cope with such an impulse to this day). As a result, this option went after the first, i.e. to the landfill. It should be noted that the ballistics of this sample was disgusting.
More Fedorov did not make any "products", others "consulted".

[twr2]

Quote: mroy

Hugo Schmeisser owns the authorship of the first production machine, adopted as the main weapon of the infantryman

The MP43 / StG44 was never the main infantry weapon in the German army. This was the main weapon of the carapace. Those. tank paratrooper, a rare and specific type of troops. But also, far from the only one.

Quote: mroy

And before him, Louis Stange made an automatic rifle FG-42 for paratroopers.

Not automatic, but with the ability to conduct automatic fire. Something like a shortened ABC-36 or AVT-40.

[Mikado]

Cyril, thanks for the article! Sudaev is a little-known genius who died in the prime of his life.
There was another designer, whose name is not heard - Korovin. By the way, in Wikipedia, an article about his machine gun, issued in a small series in 1941, fully refers to the materials of "Topvar".

[dv_generalov]

Thank you for the article!

[shinobi]

It is noteworthy that the same requirements for performance characteristics of the product lead to the same type of solutions. This is a debate about who licked someone from anyone. Sudaevsky assault rifle and German Sturmgever. The laws of mechanics and compromise are the same for all, so that all critics and admirers face the West to the furnace. The author respects the article. Sudaevu memory.

[RuslanNN]

Little smiles

[Denimax]

Very little has been said and shown about the free shutter. (
In the program "I Serve the Soviet Union" back in the 80s there was a topic about a competitor of the Kalashnikov assault rifle. It looked like a PPSh, only with a pistol grip and a folding stock. Probably this was the model of Sudaev. IMHO

[Pitot]

In general, on weapons, according to the History of Weapons, you can read A.G. Kuptsov - "Deserters of War and Peace." Some things make you look differently at wars, and at everything that happens.

[Denimax]

Quote: twr2

The Americans also had such a "mystery product". It was called M1 / ​​M2 Carbine. It is very difficult to understand the true purpose (initial idea) of the MP43 / StG44, or the M1 / ​​M2 Carbine.

The Soviet designers also had work on self-loading carbines under the cartridge 7,62x25. Could be similar to the American M1. Although it doesn’t differ much from the PPSh on a single player, unless it is easier, the ballistics may improve slightly.

[twr2]

Quote: Denimax

The Soviet designers also had work on self-loading carbines under the cartridge 7,62x25. Could be similar to the American M1

Yes, the "strategic idea" of LAD is incomprehensible to this day. But they did this miracle, developed it.

[Yarik76]

Article plus 'Respect to the author and five kopecks on the topic - the use of heavy barrels, I think, is a good idea for a shortened weapon' why didn't they use it?

[Region-25.rus]

how these six-star bored me really! dumped where "longer and shorter" .. and hayut in Russian is all Russian! really zadolbali! Chosen nation without a homeland damn it!

[2005 Aleksey]

Unique weapon worthy of respect.

[bunta]

Dear author, links to sites are certainly good, but sometimes it would be worth reading the paper books of the direct participants. And then you would know that while working on the AC-44, Sudaev and Kalashnikov worked in the same office. Kalashnikov at that time was working on his carbine under an intermediate cartridge. At the same time, Kalashnikov does not hide how much he received from Sudayev of knowledge and experience.

[Zaurbek]

The automation scheme itself is not a secret for designers, the main thing is to get a generally well-functioning mechanism. Something is sacrificed for the sake of something, but something is not. the example with AKM and M16 is very clear. And 50% success is the ability to mass produce and transfer production to new sites

[dvg1959]

Grateful to all domestic small arms designers. They deserve universal respect and respect.