ZBD-04A - Kurganets in Chinese - one of the best infantry fighting vehicles in the world

The ground units of the People’s Liberation Army of China successfully mastered the ZBD-04A infantry fighting vehicle. This BMP, according to many military experts, can currently be considered one of the best in the world. According to some reports, the troops could already arrive about 400 machines of this modification. They are used extensively during exercises of various sizes.

This BMP is a kind of symbiosis of technology of several countries. The firepower is based on the famous Troika developed in Russia - a combat module with an 100-mm gun-launcher for firing projectiles and guided missiles, 30-mm automatic gun and 7,62-mm machine gun mounted in a single mask.

This weapon system has proven itself well on Russian BMP-3. He also liked China, where they purchased a license for its production and installed the new Chinese BMP ZBD-04, which was put into service in the 2004 year.

The operational experience of the armored vehicle in the military led to the appearance of a modification "A", which differs from the original version with a more powerful modular booking, an improved fire control system with thermal imaging channels aiming the gunner-operator and a commander's panoramic sight. To improve the conditions of habitability in the aft machine installed air conditioning.

It is assumed that the weight of the machine approached 25 tons. The capacity was three crew members and a reduced infantry unit. The maximum speed of movement on the chassis is up to 70 km / h. Power reserve - 500 km.

The Chinese have stated that their BMP is a fully national development. However, a number of military experts believe that the Russian side has provided significant assistance, and the technical solutions that later appeared on the domestic advanced technology were first tested on this armored vehicle from Celestial. Therefore, ZBD-04А is very often called "Kurgan" in Chinese. "

Comments

[demiurg]

Not Kurgan is Chinese, but BMP-3 from the Middle Kingdom.

[Aleksandr72]

Quote: demiurg

Not Kurgan is Chinese, but BMP-3 from the Middle Kingdom.

Not exactly the BMP-3, with which this Chinese BMP has in common only a turret with armament from a twin 100-m smooth-barreled gun and a 30-mm automatic cannon. But it is definitely not "Kurganets", on which the BMP ZBD-04 is similar only to the shape of the hull.

The Chinese stated that their BMP is a fully national development.

Another mildly false statement. With all the successes of Chinese industry and the achievements of scientific and design thought, the development of advanced armored vehicles by themselves is still too tough for them. At least in the field of armament (which is usually either a clone of Soviet / Russian developments, or created on the basis of Russian systems), as well as engines and transmissions (which are either illegal copies of Western developments, or are based on licenses purchased there in the West).
I would not call the ZBD-04A the best BMP in the world. The Chinese have no reason to do so yet. But for now. China is moving forward, including in the field of development of armored weapons, it would seem very recently by historical standards they did not have their own tank building, and even less a design school. Who knows what the Chinese will show the world tomorrow!
I have the honor.

[code54]

The question is better or not, of course, only they have riveted them (400), and where are our BMP-4s or Kurganets? While I’ll run in and purchase troops in the parties, the Chinese have already modernized their experience in the exercises, or they’ll rivet a new one!
So it's hard to blame the Chinese. But we need to somehow speed up the processes!

[edge]

Quote: code54

The best or not question is of course, only they have already riveted them (400) pieces, and where are our

it’s debatable if imitators can outperform the founders .... moreover, each type of vehicle is developed for specific tasks for infantry fighting vehicles — this is the rapid movement of infantry after tanks under conditions of radiation, chemical, bacteriological ... infection. in the current conditions irrelevant, since small units are easily saturated with items

[Vladimir61]

Quote: hert

can imitators surpass the founders ....

What difference does it make you iron, an original from the near future or a real, modern copycat?

Quote: code54

only they already riveted them (400) pieces

Here it is, no longer

Quote: hert

controversially

but it’s unfortunate and says a lot about the capabilities of the Chinese military-industrial complex.

[alexmach]

but it’s unfortunate and says a lot about the capabilities of the Chinese military-industrial complex.

This is what. how do you like 22 corvettes for ... for soklko? for 3 years or what?

[Forever so]

They were late to speed up, Dima Medvedev already sold the Kurgan plant to foreign partners, now they will produce anal condoms, the most necessary thing for the government and the Duma.

[Vadim42]

We need to make a separate column, "Hello fuckers."

[R-22]

however, since 2004 they have been riveted, however 33.3 pieces a year are obtained, however it will not be enough for China, however

[dima mzk]

do you accept? how much you need so much to eat!

[kenig1]

For what reason do you compare it with the BMP-4 (BMP-3M), and not with the BMP-3?

[code54]

I (the Chinese BMP) did not compare it with the BMP-4 or 3M; ..., and I raised the question when they will be in our troops!

[alexmach]

But where are our BMP-4 or Kurganets?

Well, for 20 years the army has not been rearmament, not before. that’s behind these 20 years, even from the Chinese.

[Maxom75]

you can rivet 1000. Will it make sense? There Ukrainians rivet miracle after miracle of military thought, and miners fly like plywood over Paris. But the fact that we have little equipment is a problem. But no one says that our government does not develop the most important task in the country - it is increasing the population by stimulating large families (from five or more children). At one time, even at the institute with a lecturer, I thought, if you start the program "large family", which includes a free house with all amenities, the construction of such settlements in the suburbs. In the villages, kindergartens, schools and first-aid posts are all at the expense of the state. Do not take pension contributions from such families, they will be provided with the contributions of their children anyway (five children of two parents will feed in old age). Immediately after the birth of the 5th, mommies should count the average work experience, she has already completed her mission. We can double the population of the country in 40 years, and 100 times in 4 years. And Russia, with a population of 600-700 million people, is too tough, not only for NATO, but also for China.

[NordUral]

To a point of view, he himself spoke about this many times. A good, beautiful house, simple wealth in the family, a good education and guaranteed work - this is the future of the country and people. Then there will be no problems with the settlement of Siberia, the Far East, there will be no problems of empty agricultural land. In general, there will be no problems.

[Maxom75]

But what about Adam Smith's ideas? After all, the nestlings of the Gaidar's nest did not go further to lectures on the history of economic doctrines, they did not read books at least by EM Mayburd "Introduction to the history of economic thought". What is Caseianism? What kind of regulation of the market for the needs of society? A free market is a "holy cow" which is long overdue for meat, because. she's no good for anything else. From the theory of the free market immediately drop out as a burden: the sick, the disabled, the elderly, large families. All of them are just a burden on the feet of the free market, and therefore it was necessary to abolish the faith as denying the will of the almighty god of the liberals - His Majesty Income! Anything that reduces or denies his supremacy should be recognized as harmful and seditious. This is how the truth of the Western world was born: "If you are so smart, why are you so poor?" and "I have a lot of money - it means that God loves me, and you have little - that means you are a sinner!" And for the sake of the new God, liberals can be denied, but it is better to break the commandments of the old God if they interfere with satisfying the appetites of the new. But money does not have the ability to be in demand after the death of the state issuing it. Money is not tasty, they will not embrace and will not regret. Money is a means, not an end !!! When we understand that a big country is for a big people, and not for pumping out the dough, then Russia will flourish into the envy of everyone else. The stupidity of our government when our taxes are taken from production at the stage of development, construction of an object and trial lots. Well, if this is not the case in the country, how can you fight off the desire to fill the market? Why prohibit people from creating products at home? let retirees sew shirts, knit socks, make stools and sell them extra. income. The market for goods is filling up in the country, and we are reducing the burden on the budget. After all, grandmothers, grandfathers, mothers with many children will spend everything they earn here: on food, medicine, clothes, and so on. It will not go abroad and will not be transferred to Swiss banks. Simplify the procedure to notification: wrote a tax statement on the website and paid a fee of 100 rubles. a year and work. Trade even yourself, even on the website of goods, even in the store, but even from home. otherwise we bring knitted hats from China and buy them for 700 rubles. grandmothers will knit and sell for 300 and it will be better and warmer. And it's wool, not from recycled PET bottles. There is a lot more that can be done, but in our country the state is doing everything to destroy any initiative. By the way, large families should be exempted from taxes, and childless and with a small number of children should be subject to additional taxes, who will have to feed them in old age? The idea of ​​a funded pension system has been destroyed by currency wars (money depreciates all over the world). The only reliable currency is growing up children!

[sharp-lad]

In India and China, the problem is of a completely different nature! How to bring the number of children born to a reasonable level, because two parents (the basis of the state) will not be able to provide each child with decent education and appropriate work! But I completely agree with one - The only reliable currency is growing up children!. There is simply no safer investment in quiet old age!

[Maxom75]

Look at the territory of India and China, and the territory of Russia. We are able to feed up to a billion people. We no longer need, but less is a disaster for the country. By the way, the main problem in India and China is drinking water! We have 25% of all world fresh water reserves. The system needs to be changed, not the economy. The priority is the people, not the population. The population does not protect the homeland, the people defend the homeland!

[cosmos111]

Han, they took from everyone, but not by much.

BMP "Bayonix-25" (Bionix-25). BMP-3, etc.

[Come on]

Quote: Alexander72

But it is definitely not "Kurganets", on which the BMP ZBD-04 is similar only to the shape of the hull.

But I read from one expert in armored vehicles that the plans and development of "Kurganets" had been going on since the late 90s and the technical documentation was either sold or somehow got to the Chinese. The Chinese have mastered their "Kurganets" and have already riveted a lot. So the similarity is not without reason. I do not touch the tower, after all, we are talking about the tracked platform itself, but the tower is clearly not just so similar to the "three-wheel drive".

[NordUral]

It doesn’t matter who it looks like, it’s important what it can do.

[Grandfather KATSO]

Quote: Alexander72

Not exactly BMP-3, with which the Chinese BMP is unified except for a tower with armament from the twin 100-meter smooth-bore guns and a 30-mm automatic gun.

And the running gear from whom?

[Rivares]

Quote: Alexander72

Who knows what the Chinese will show the world tomorrow!

What they copy will be shown. Look at the latest developments, and find out what will be copied in a year or two)

[Amnestied]

Quote: Alexander72

ZBD-04A - Kurganets in Chinese - one of the best infantry fighting vehicles in the world

the author seems to overeat Chinese rice. Who, where did the comparison, which machines participated in the tests, where are the results of comparative tests? The title of the article is inherently misinformed.

[svp67]

Quote: Alexander72

Not exactly the BMP-3, with which this Chinese BMP has in common only a turret with armament from a twin 100-m smooth-barreled gun and a 30-mm automatic cannon. But it is definitely not "Kurganets", on which the BMP ZBD-04 is similar only to the shape of the hull.

And with the BMP-3M "Dragoon"?

[cast iron]

Oh oh, and where is the landing there? Really in front of the tower? These are the minnows!

[Bad_gr]

Quote: cast iron

And with the BMP-3M "Dragoon"?

This is not a Dragoon, but a car that appeared by order of the Arabs (how this deal ended, I did not come across information).
Dragoon here

(from the link that is published later in the article) left side:

And here's what for the Arabs:

[Maksus]

Nonsense, almost all characteristics are marked "assumed", there is no participation in the database and comparative tests, and already one of the best BMP in the world.
In appearance - English MCW-80 Warrior with a tower from the BMP-3.
The most interesting thing is that no "experts" say such words about our equipment. Stupidity and hypocrisy rule the world, gentlemen.

[Forest]

It's just that the experts are all Chinese.

[Kasym]

I’m thinking why 30 mm. gun on the T-14 Armata not installed? The tower was uninhabited, somehow adapted ... It was said that it basically should have been ... I think that it would not hurt and added military strength (there are definitely no analogues).

[Xsanchez]

Because a 125 mm gun will be removed from there and put in 152 mm (look at the height of the tower), and then there will be no space left.

[Bad_gr]

Quote: Xsanchez

Because a 125 mm gun will be removed from there and put in 152 mm (look at the height of the tower), and then there will be no space left.

On the "Object-195", where there was a 152 mm caliber gun, a 30 mm caliber gun was present, which is logical: there is less 152 mm ammunition in the tank than 125 mm and not every object requires the main caliber for destruction (for some, 30 mm is quite enough). especially since the elevation angles of the 30mm cannon are much higher than those of the main caliber.

[yehat]

Yes, because we have excellent projects in the troops virtually
how many t50 in the troops? still zero!
how many years have passed between the adoption of the BMP-3 and the entry into the unit?
when fittings will complete parts?

[Portolan]

Well, so now the Chinese will start selling and dumping, so how profitable this deal for the sale of melon is a question.

[Bad_gr]

Generally,
our "Dragoon" and

"the best in the world":

[Bayonet]

They put the air conditioning - they think about the soldier, they care!

[satris]

And HLF still on BMP-1 - is this not air conditioning? I remember that in the summer at the exercises they fired, I climbed in - the mechanic was wet from sweat. Command: turn on the HLF. He, like, is forbidden, this is for a nuclear explosion. Me: do not fool your head! Turned on - and then thanked you so much! But to guess it was weak.

[Bersaglieri]

FVU-Filter-Ventilation Unit. Alas, there is no heat exchanger in it.
So if "overboard" was above +30, then the HLF would not help

[Free wind]

In 1997, the Chinese bought a license for the BMP-3 and released it, but I would be ashamed to call it a clone. The engine, inline six 500-600 hp, stands in front. Automatic transmission, 6 forward and two reverse gears. By its mass of 25 tons, the protection of this machine can be like that of a tank.

[dFG]

The volumes of release and speed of entry into the Chinese troops are simply amazing, the period from the approval of design documentation to a large series is much less than ours

[ImPerts]

Is this a new kung fu figure? Red dragon grins teeth?

[tchoni]

Well, right now they will

The capacity was three crew members and a reduced infantry squad.

I always considered the concept of BMP flawed: nedotank and semi-armored personnel carrier. Work should be a pair of tank and heavy armored personnel carrier

[cosmos111]

Quote: tchoni

Work should be a pair of tank and heavy armored personnel carrier

And the heavy BMP-TS BM Troichetka.

[tchoni]

The fact is that in the case of the presence of heavy weapons a) there is little space for the landing and its landing gear.
b) a pile of explosives appears in the landing squad in the form of ammunition for an armament complex.
c) the commanders have a wild desire to use the car instead of the tank, despising the transport and logistics functions ...

[cosmos111]

Quote: tchoni

The fact is that in the case of the presence of heavy weapons a) there is little space for the landing and its landing gear.

There is a DBM output.

DUBM AU220M 57-mm automatic gun.

Quote: tchoni

And, d) the mass that could go to strengthen the defense of the landing.

They will make a DBM-go, to strengthen armor protection.

[tchoni]

DBM, in my opinion, is only partly an option .. More precisely, this is an option if light weapons are installed in it. Otherwise, it will turn out either too vulnerable, or too heavy, which could adversely affect the security of the landing. Although, again, everything can be tried. But, it is thought that providing a landing with a good overview of the battlefield and the possibility of using personal weapons under cover of armor will give the best result. And the fire cover of such a machine can be entrusted to a tank or, more creatively, to a combat robot. And even two.

[cosmos111]

Quote: tchoni

Otherwise, it will turn out either too vulnerable, or too heavy, which could adversely affect the security of the landing. Although, again, everything can be tried.

Technologically, it is possible already now (example of "Armata" MBT)
Shoot from a personal weapon from the armored compartment? This 50-m maximum is NOT relevant.
Good review, give a video camera.

On the BTR-T "Namer" the DUDM from "Raphael" was already ready, but all the "obstinacy" was in the tactics of the IDF.

"Namer" with DUBM 30-mm "Samson" from "Raphael".

[tchoni]

Quote: cosmos111

Shoot from a personal weapon from the armored compartment? This 50-m maximum is NOT relevant.

Why? Most tank-dangerous targets are struck by the caliber of personal weapons. Cameras, DBMS for each fighter - it's expensive. Yes, and Ashina is unlikely to be mass (it seems to me that one of the reasons for the announced absence of the T15 at this year’s victory parade). The beauty of the TBTR is that it saves on armament, complex LMS, complex active and possibly dynamic defense systems ( in the end, there is no amphibious assault on the inside, and the cumulative stream behind the thick-armored barrier will not kill more than one or two people. And then, if the stars come together) you can create a truly massive machine and saturate motorized infantry units with them. But, this is my personal opinion. As a matter of fact - I don’t know

[lelikas]

This is not an option - it also eats up the volume of the fighting compartment - the top picture, though there are other options below.

[psiho117]

Quote: cosmos111

There is a DBM output.
DUBM AU220M 57-mm automatic gun.

It does not correspond to the modern DBM concept - the ammunition should be inside the module, and not in the fighting compartment.
And with 57mm fools this can not be achieved.

[Bad_gr]

Quote: tchoni

The fact is that in the case of heavy weapons ............

And on the other hand:
they set the landing party the same task, but this landing party only has small arms, + all sorts of "flies".
And which is better:
1) + two more people, or
2) 100mm gun, with the ability to shoot at tanks, including?

[tchoni]

Quote: Bad_gr

2) 100mm gun, with the ability to shoot at tanks, including?
Reply Quote Post

Do you think a 100 mm low ballistic smoothbore will be a serious weapon against a tank? I think that the tank will burn such a miracle as soon as it croaks. Do you know the beauty of a fly? - you can carry it with you even if you burned the box ..

[Bad_gr]

Quote: tchoni

Do you think a 100 mm low ballistic smoothbore will be a serious weapon against a tank?

However, there is such an opportunity

Quote: tchoni

Do you know the beauty of a fly? - you can carry it with you even if you burned the box ..

And on the box, you can quickly carry off your legs, and not fight with the tank

[tchoni]

Here. What are we talking about. But, the box with the gun will start firing at the tank - and he will burn it. And yet he will have to fight.
And you, most likely, don’t show him the box of the demon cannon. And this will be your chance for a quick departure. (Evacuation of the wounded, transportation of ammunition, etc.)

[tchoni]

And, d) the mass that could go to strengthen the defense of the landing.

[Grandfather KATSO]

Quote: tchoni

I always considered the concept of BMP flawed

All right!
This is nothing more than a hybrid of a whale and a rhino, an unsuccessful attempt to replace a light tank on the battlefield with an even more unsuccessful attempt to force it to carry troops.

[cosmos111]

The Han people copied in the first place - "Object 299".

It was developed at the end of the 80's, manufactured, and passed a large volume of tests. The seven-roller chassis with front-mounted MTO - Object 299 chassis was tested. On the OBT and T-80 units and assemblies.
As a power plant, a gas turbine engine with an output of 1400 - 1500 l / s was planned.
It was planned to produce a modular GSh, based on the Object 299 chassis.
1 main battle tank
2. BMP-T, landing 8 soldier.
3.Management and Intelligence Machine
4. Remote-controlled boom machine.
Ready ,, Armata ,, at the end of the 80's.

[black]

This is all because they themselves were not in the role of this landing.

[Bad_gr]

Quote: black

This is all because they themselves were not in the role of this landing.

Who are you commenting on?

[ovod84]

She can become the best in the world if she took part in hostilities and there she showed herself in all its glory.

[edge]

Quote: ovod84

She can become the best in the world if she took part in hostilities and there she showed herself in all its glory.

the best in the world is already-Bradley (m-2), the Germans are also the best in the world-Marder, so this is better than the best .... but only ours are fighting

[demiurg]

Quote: Free Wind

In 1997, the Chinese bought a license for the BMP-3 and released it, but I would be ashamed to call it a clone. The engine, inline six 500-600 hp, stands in front. Automatic transmission, 6 forward and two reverse gears. By its mass of 25 tons, the protection of this machine can be like that of a tank.

Do you know why our tanks jump from a springboard, but an abrams cannot? The power density of the abrams is not less, the dynamics are not worse, but !!! Weight distribution on the axes is not ice. He will not be able to land exactly after the jump. The same thing with the BMP-3. Good weight distribution. This is not only ski jumping, it is the lack of nodding and rocking when moving quickly through the fields. Arms stabilizer is much easier to work. Moving the engine forward and not moving the tower backward, naturally upset the balance. Look at the Kurgan, how his tower is shifted strongly backward, with the engine in front.

[Forest]

Maybe Abrams jump, enough photos on the Internet.

[Bad_gr]

Quote: Forest

Maybe Abrams jump, enough photos on the Internet.

Once, yes.
But something is not visible at the exhibitions of this effective advertising stunt.

[Forest]

Because they show their power in other ways. In general, this is an easy way to ditch the suspension and the LMS. Our 90-kam also does not work for nothing. After a couple of jumps, I personally would have demanded to double-check the sights, the stabilizer and the chassis.

[Cat man null]

Quote: demiurg

Do you know why our tanks jump from a springboard, but an abrams cannot?

Quote: Forest

Can Abrams jump, enough photos on the Internet

Quote: Bad_gr

Once, yes.
But something is not visible at the exhibitions of this effective advertising stunt

- the tank does not need a gift - jump. Well, they don’t fly, they are not sharpened for this. Pampering is a nonsense and advertising ..
- and a shot from the window dressing, when the tank is also shooting in a jump - it's just the top stupidity advertising production. At the same time, he cannot get. Nowhere, practically

Quote: demiurg

This is not only ski jumping, it is the lack of nodding and rocking when moving quickly through the fields. Arms stabilizer is much easier to work

- when driving on a "tank" road - everything is there, both "pecking" and "swinging" ..
- about the stabilizer - rzhu under the table .. "an order of magnitude easier" ... gyyyyy ... and someone compared this? And how was it compared, if "yes", may I ask?

[Bad_gr]

Quote: Cat Man Null

- the tank does not need a gift - jump. Well, they don’t fly, they are not sharpened for this.

In practice, the tank does not need to jump, but at the exhibition, in this case, they demonstrate the capabilities of the tank's suspension. The course of the rink as well. I will tell you, as a driver of a medium tank, that this is a very important characteristic.
If at a speed the tank jumps onto some ledge (yes even a stone), you can easily damage the track and bend the roller + breakdown of the torsion bar. Someone like that, but on the T-62 the rink weighs 280 kg. Change it - you won’t get any pleasure.

[Cat man null]

Quote: Bad_gr

In practice, the tank does not need to jump, but at the exhibition ...

Duc, I said - a purely exhibition trick, on a well-prepared springboard ..

What in nature is usually .. not found

[Bad_gr]

Quote: Cat Man Null

What in nature is usually .. not found laughing

In nature, there is a ledge of a rock, a collision with which may end:
Option 1 - the tank that jumped at the exhibitions, with a high probability, will go further.
The second option - the tank that did not jump at the exhibitions, it is very likely to remain in place with a broken chassis.

And at exhibitions, these options can be predicted by advertising races of technology.

[Razvedka_Boem]

Nice car made.

[Professor]

According to some reports, about 400 vehicles of this modification could already enter the troops

Obviously, they are arming against Mongolia.

[Professor]

Quote: siberalt

Well, do the Chinese have a little of their desert?

And will they fight off their desert from the shepherds?

Quote: Andrey Yurievich

"What is your evidence?" (C) or just decided to troll, eh, Oleg?

Take a look at the map. Against the enemies: USA, Taiwan, India and Japan, these machines are useless. Maybe against Burmese, Nepal and Laos? Or Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan and Tajikistan? Russia is an ally, that’s Mongolia. It is she who is included in the concept of historical territories of China.

[Pilat2009]

Quote: professor

Against the Enemies: USA, Taiwan, India and Japan, these machines are useless

Why are they useless?
If you think that you can sit out on the islands, then for sure China has means of transfer-ferries and landing ships.
Tell me then what is useful? What infantry to transport and support?
Just don’t tell me that Bradley is the BMP standard and Merkava is the tank standard

[Professor]

Quote: Pilat2009

Why are they useless?

Against the United States, everything is useless. They can’t get to Taiwan in any way, you can only go to India on foot, but you don’t have to talk about Japan at all. This technique is for flat terrain.

I have a girl.

[Vadim237]

China also has amphibious assault ships, and they are actively building new ones, so they will reach both Taiwan and Japan if they want, they can bombard Taiwan with long-range MLRS - from their coast - WS2D

[igor.borov775]

Yes! They started very well. By the way, they obviously hung something on their own. The world becomes smaller with such a volume of information that circulates around us. China and its economy have begun to disperse. Yes, much has been taken from us. What should be hidden, by the way, they must be given their due. But they have other technologies. This is the golden middle here. Trying to combine these capabilities in the product. We, that there were no alien technologies on our products, are mistaken. Sanctions forced our industry to seek and develop what was alien; it is very difficult but coping. So China with a more powerful industry solves such a problem. And don’t have to jerk. The world is cruel. Those who are late and stayed yesterday in technology will receive democracy in American style. And please do not sculpt Formosa here. China will never solve this problem by military means. There is another way and he solves it. Another thing is that colleagues are trying to fan this question. China is slowly starting to emerge from the niche that our colleagues have identified. And the machine as a machine is very similar to our products but our main armament. We must proceed from this. And our colleagues really do not like it.

[edge]

Quote: Pilat2009

If you think that you can sit out on the islands, then for sure China has means of transfer-ferries and landing ships.

there are delivery vehicles, but what will they do on very rough terrain ..

[Pilat2009]

Quote: hert

there are delivery vehicles, but what will they do on very rough terrain ..

And what did the BMP do in Afghanistan? Is there a rough terrain there?

Quote: professor

Everything is useless against the USA

Well, yes, if a conflict with the United States is supposed, then other means will come into play. Although the USA is not fools to get involved in conflicts with serious powers either, they can declare a lot of things, but it’s all air shocks. Or do you think that in case of conflict and destruction US infrastructure will go unpunished? You do not bomb Yugoslavia and Iraq

[Razvedka_Boem]

Merkava for his region is a good tank. How many Professor posts he has seen, he speaks reasonably enough, although the desire to argue often provokes)

[Professor]

Quote: Razvedka_Boem

Merkava for his region is a good tank.

Well, what does this tank have to do with it? The Chinese are arming themselves against Russia. this is clear to the hedgehog. Already talked about private conversations with the Chinese and what they think of Siberia and the Far East. He who has eyes, let him see.

[Razvedka_Boem]

Actually, I answered Pilate 2009

Quote: Pilat2009

Just don’t tell me that Bradley is the BMP standard and Merkava is the tank standard

[Vadim237]

First, China will need to capture and annex Mongolia.

[albanian]

Quote: professor

Quote: Razvedka_Boem

Merkava for his region is a good tank.

Well, what does this tank have to do with it? The Chinese are arming themselves against Russia. this is clear to the hedgehog. Already talked about private conversations with the Chinese and what they think of Siberia and the Far East. He who has eyes, let him see.

Why should we attack China? We already have everything.
But I also seem to have enough snow and mountains in my territory, so as not to stare at ours. What else is there? There is no oil nearby (in such a situation, it is easier to get it from under London or to move the Saudis) minerals from China and dig yourself on its territory ...
It’s another matter that China can overcome everything that is not sufficiently guarded, but it’s evident that they have increased housekeeping)
And so look at Mexico, they are also arming themselves, there are many of them and they are in vests, it is clear that Texas will not squeeze Texas out of the states today.

[Professor]

Quote: Albanian

But I also seem to have enough snow and mountains in my territory, so as not to stare at ours. What else is there?

And in the Crimea oil is unmeasured? Why do you need Crimea then? This is how the Chinese consider East Siberia and the Far East their original territories.

Quote: Albanian

And so look at Mexico, they are also arming themselves, there are many of them and they are in vests, it is clear that Texas will not squeeze Texas out of the states today.

Yeah, Mexico is arming itself, it has an extra 50 million men and conducts exercises near the US borders.

[igor.borov775]

Quote: professor

The Chinese are arming themselves against Russia. this is clear to the hedgehog

Lovely !! What a concern for us poor. The Yankees are worried, and the EU is warning. What happened was so terrible. For 18 years we dutifully listened to what our Colleagues advised us and tried to do so. And the result was a very wonderful country, almost turned into rubbish, and they told us everything was fine. We woke up and looked around in 2008 in August. Yes, thanks to the cares of our dear colleagues, we lost friends and there were a lot of them, as if the liberals did not yell. And China during this time calmly and leisurely made contacts with those whom we left. Which is not true. To our shame, the truth is. While we here repented, Countries England France and for less than 10 years were engaged in the African continent. Through her clientele, she took power almost legally in countries far from them. There was even a glaring case, UN troops helped take the presidential palace to the French paratroopers. What was not. It was. And it is not so simple with Libya. All this hype around it covered up the great contradictions of France and England in Libya. It is no longer customary to talk about this, but China has intercepted the lion's share of all the contracts that these countries considered their own. And now, crowds of notebook politicians of various stripes who have received or have undergone internships in EU countries are yelling from television screens. China is bad. In the EU countries, these same figures do not need them; there is no place for them at the top. There are enough of them. They need to sow seeds of discord here. This is the general line of Hegemon and the democrats from our sweet Europe. We ourselves must choose with whom we can have friendly relations .And China does not impose anything on us in comparison with our neighbors from Europe. Don’t go there don’t do it. We are already becoming independent. And it turned out to be so difficult to have already missed a lot. But WE are learning to have our own opinion and make our own decisions without looking at these pillars of democracy.

[srelock]

Quote: professor

The Chinese are arming themselves against Russia. this is clear to the hedgehog. Already talked about private conversations with the Chinese and what they think of Siberia and the Far East. He who has eyes, let him see.

Professor, how do you imagine the Chinese attack on the Russian Federation with the capture of the Far East and Siberia? For example, I see that beyond the border areas (from Ulan-Ude to Vladivostok) along the Trans-Siberian Railway and part of Primorye, the Chinese do not shine anymore, and this, provided that they have already captured Mongolia.
How do you imagine the further offensive operations of a multimillion-dollar army in the absence of any infrastructure and in conditions of very rough terrain with one of the worst climatic conditions on the planet?

China and the Russian Federation are forced allies and the point here is not at all in the "bloody State Department." The war between our countries is a losing option for both, but for China most of all.

[Professor]

Quote: srelock

Professor, how do you imagine the Chinese attack on the Russian Federation with the capture of the Far East and Siberia?

This is precisely the question I asked my Chinese colleague who convinced me that this territory is primordially Chinese and they will recapture it. I also reminded him of nuclear weapons, to which he stated that they also have nuclear weapons. I also reminded him of Napoleon and Hitler and how their campaigns ended. It didn't upset him much, didn't even upset him at all. He said that "we are very patient, we will crush with economic power and the most powerful army in the world." Such are the moods of your "ally".

[srelock]

Quote: professor

He said that "we are very patient, we will crush with economic power and the most powerful army in the world." Such are the moods of your "ally"

Let's just say that there are "stubborn" elements in all countries, but they are usually not allowed to come to power, and if they find themselves there, then not for long.
And yet, what do you think?

[Professor]

Quote: srelock

And yet, what do you think?

IMHO the Chinese are arming themselves primarily against Russia. Guess from 3 times what was the most massive demonstration in the history of mankind? Against who?
Chinese expansion is already in full swing. Economic, demographic and non-tan military.

[Ajent cho]

and not tan military

It is written "over the mountains".
Many people generally like to fight - in Russia, including. But to give out for the state’s policy the ravings of one, or even a group of people ...

[edge]

Quote: professor

Russia is an ally, that’s Mongolia. It is she who is included in the concept of historical territories of China.

Mongolia is unlikely to have an agreement with Russia, otherwise it would have been in our composition already in 2014.

[igor.borov775]

Mongolia will continue to be an independent country. China has long had friendly relations with Mongolia and now we finally woke up and began to establish normal friendly relations. Mongolia is the only ally who transferred the gold reserves of his country at the most difficult moment in our country. The Germans were eager for Moscow. This little nation sent us meat and reindeer skins sewed short fur coats. And he lived half-starving. For four long years he regularly supplied our Army with what he could produce. Such things are not forgotten. And by the way, China also knows what Mongolia did in those distant years for the Chinese. This problem is closed and there was no problem. Do not whip up passions from scratch; look for others for this where it is very comfortable for such assumptions. And I used to consider YOU a very insightful Professor.

[siberalt]

Well, do the Chinese have a little of their desert?

[the most important]

Quote: professor

Obviously, they are arming against Mongolia.

Yesterday one "deputy of the Mongolian Duma" on TV told me what kind of friendly relations we have with China for centuries ... I always suspected him of thoughtlessness, but now I was sure that he was d ... I hope that at least not all of Ulan- Bator "think also ...

[uskrabut]

400 infantry fighting vehicles enough to drive one Mongol in the steppe

[Andrey Yuryevich]

Quote: professor

According to some reports, about 400 vehicles of this modification could already enter the troops

Obviously, they are arming against Mongolia.

"What is your evidence?" (C) or just decided to troll, eh, Oleg?

[demiurg]

Quote: professor

Obviously, they are arming against Mongolia.

Yeah, they’ve gathered in Siberia. They have so few deserts and mountains
Vietnam, India, just a stone's throw away, and again, North Korea morally help, by maneuvering near the borders. Well, Japan hello at the same time, let them sleep badly.

[Volga Cossack]

Well, not Kurgan, rather BMP-3 but with the engine in front .....

[Bad_gr]

Quote: Volga Cossack

Well, not Kurgan, rather BMP-3 but with the engine in front .....

Then, BMP_1-2, with a combat module from BMP-3.

[Zaurbek]

Our BPZ-3 version was made with dviglom in front and a tower in the back. As a temporary replacement, until the new BMP gets on the conveyor.

[demiurg]

Quote: Zaurbek

Our BPZ-3 version was made with dviglom in front and a tower in the back. As a temporary replacement, until the new BMP gets on the conveyor.

Only in the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation will it not go. For export, easily. An engine placed in front does not always protect against cumulative or scrap.

[Zaurbek]

Just, however, protects from this.

[Zaurbek]

Just, however, protects from this.

[Torins]

We are waiting for a large serial batch of BMPs on the Armata platform

[Pvi1206]

The Chinese leadership pursues an effective economic policy for the benefit of its people, which allows this country to have strong armed forces ...

[Grandfather KATSO]

Quote: Pvi1206

Chinese leadership pursues an effective economic policy for the benefit of its people

Than? What created a favorable investment climate in China, one of the reasons for which is the willingness (and more precisely the compelled necessity) of the bulk of the Chinese to work almost for food?

[igor.borov775]

Darling lagged behind life .. There a lot is changing now. We see a leash on the tip of the iceberg.

[VohaAhov]

Yes, indeed, the Chinese does not look like the BMP T-15 "Armata", but he looks like a new modification of our BMP-3 "Dragoon". But ours floats and its weight is 25 tons. Here is her photo:

[VohaAhov]

And here is a picture:

[Verdun]

The technique may be interesting, but there is little real information about it in the article. Can such a unit float? What is the level of armor protection? What is "abbreviated branch", up to how many people? Etc. etc. Without these data, it is difficult to assess the quality of a combat vehicle and the words "can be considered one of the best in the world" remain just words.

[Grandfather KATSO]

Well, I certainly understand that VO sympathizes with everything "communist", but not to the same extent!
In fact, this, with a probability of tending to 100%, is nothing more than our BMP-3 in a new dress.
Even closer to the truth, focusing on the quality of Chinese industry, this is a Chinese copy of our BMP-3 doped with new armored plates.
And I would not personally call THIS one of the best infantry fighting vehicles in the world.
But as correctly noted above, this waffle will certainly be able to disperse the Mongolian cavalry on horseback if it happens, if it does not break and rust before!

[Mountain shooter]

It's like a Chinese 5th generation fighter. Everyone saw, all their ears were buzzing about performance characteristics, only experts write that there are no engines of their own even for an analogue of Drying ... The Chinese are masters of disinformation, inventors of "paper tigers". The professor is right, the Chinese "try on" the ground army and armored forces on us. And you need to look at the Dragon carefully. The dragon is now uncomfortable, the growth rates are falling, the crisis of overproduction has risen to its full height. New markets are needed. As one of my acquaintances said when I asked him (we were discussing a possible deal with a Chinese partner) - when can the Chinese "throw" us? In response I heard - at any moment ... Do not ask why.

[Pilat2009]

Quote: Mountain Shooter

The dragon is uncomfortable now, the growth rate is falling, the crisis of overproduction has risen to its full height. Need new markets

And? How does this relate to the conquest of territory? Who is stopping them from trading now?
You might think that in the event of the occupation of the Far East, the growth and sales rates will increase. Is that a country that has lost territory will be friends with the aggressor?

[igor.borov775]

Gentlemen do not rage. On the dvigunami on fighter jets the story is interesting. Ours and the European ones are completely different in technology. Even when the MIG-25 was stolen from Primorye to Japan, the engine completely climbed the engine. And only after a while it became clear. It’s problematic to build such an engine in the USA. Huge finances are needed to create the technology that was applied. Since then, production technologies for such products have diverged. And it is very difficult to combine them. Huge investments are needed to create this very production technology. But civilian ones are normal.

[sabakina]

"Kurganets" in Chinese "- one of the best infantry fighting vehicles in the world

As a descendant of the senior officer of the Airborne Forces, I can’t get past this topic. Yes, it's not about BMD, but about BMP, but for some reason it's a shame ...

[Приговор]

Quote: professor

According to some reports, about 400 vehicles of this modification could already enter the troops

Obviously, they are arming against Mongolia.

Rave. They are armed not "against" someone, but for the performance of very specific tasks against any enemy. It is in kindergarten that they are friends "against" someone ...

Quote: professor

Quote: Pilat2009

Why are they useless?

Against the United States, everything is useless. They can’t get to Taiwan in any way, you can only go to India on foot, but you don’t have to talk about Japan at all. This technique is for flat terrain.

I have a girl.

This technique can be dropped anywhere in any way. Again in Israel, the grass was removed. Season...

[Lens]

In any case, in the Middle Kingdom, the bureaucratic machine does not interfere with the production of weapons. Not that our sawyers are a la new Shura Balaganov.

[dima mzk]

stupid people you stupid people at Kurganets 7 rinks you even went to BMP-3 !!!

[wanderer_032]

The ground units of the People’s Liberation Army of China are successfully mastering the ZBD-04A infantry fighting vehicle.

And the Russian ground forces, even the BMP-3, have not yet mastered everything. There is nothing to say about "Kurganets". Very quickly, the Chinese "tovarischi" introduce new equipment into production and supply it to the troops. Such facts cannot but be alarming.

[igorek4515]

Normal BMPshka among the Chinese ..! Whoever says anything .. And against whom is it intended ..? So gentlemen, does it matter to you .. Against whom it is necessary and will be used against it .. And there is no need to breed conspiracy theories here .. well, then that they copied in many ways, so who cares .. The main thing is that the car turned out and this It can not be denied..

[Grave With Cross 3]

What about the BMP in the photo? And where do you think they are going to fight? And with whom? Judging by the pictures in Africa ...
"Selected PLA motorized rifle units are conducting military exercises on the borders with Russia (translation of material from Chinese sources).
The motorized rifle brigade of the 39th Army of the Shenyang Military District (which is deployed in the north of the country, near the border with Russia) conducted military exercises in winter conditions.
With heavy snowfalls and low temperatures, motorized rifle formations of the ground forces continue to conduct military exercises to improve troops in "real combat conditions"
It is noteworthy that it is the snowy terrain and severe frosts, according to the Ministry of Defense of China that are “real combat conditions”. A reasonable question arises, with what enemy is the Celestial Empire going to fight? Obviously not with Taiwan.
In addition, facts such as the solid military budget of China, the continuous modernization and purchase of modern military equipment, and the conduct of exercises with the transfer of troops over long distances greatly displace the balance of forces with the northern neighbor. According to the Chinese themselves, the so-called "union" with Russia is nothing more than a temporary phenomenon and will be used to achieve economic and military superiority. And then, under the influence of sanctions, the Russian government will agree to any conditions with the Middle Kingdom. This is the real point of view of the Chinese, which for obvious reasons is not published by the official media.
Original article from the website of the Ministry of Defense of China:
高清: 第 39 集团军 机 步 旅 新兵 漫天 飞雪 中 训练
2 月 22 日 ， 辽 南 地区 普降 大雪 ， 气温 骤降。 陆军 第 39 集团军 某 机 步 旅 充分 抓住 这一 有利 时机 开展 实战 化 训练 ， 不断 锤炼 部队 作战 能力。 （姜云峰 摄影 报道 "

[black]

From a year ago, there was reprints from a Chinese magazine at VO. The war with Russia is the last of five wars that China must wage. First for Taiwan. Five years very closely involved in China and realized that in the next 50 years, we are not threatened with a war with China. But this is a separate issue.

[Professor]

Quote: black

Five years very closely involved in China and realized that in the next 50 years, we are not threatened with a war with China. But this is a separate issue.

The question is how about a person who has been very closely involved in China for five years. The number of men in China is more than the number of women by 50 (fifty) million. Where will China put them?

[godofwar6699]

only war will solve their problem

[Grave With Cross 3]

Professor, why is it only you and us who see the threat of war with China? Well, another 5-10 people. They periodically ban me for this China, so as not to think. Are we already that, a colony of China?

[Professor]

Quote: Grave With Cross 3

Professor, why is it only you and us who see the threat of war with China?

Duc because sunny said that China is a friend, then a friend. Who will object to him? In life.

[Pilat2009]

Quote: professor

The number of men in China is more than the number of women by 50 (fifty) million. Where will China put them?

Let many people enter. Their problems. Each family has two men, a woman and a child. If the Russian government is unable to solve the problem of Chinese relocation, patriots will solve it.

[Grave With Cross 3]

Greetings, dear. Somehow you painfully bravely made:

Quote: black

Five years very closely involved in China and realized that in the next 50 years, we are not threatened with a war with China.

I would believe you if you were Moses. But you are not Moses. In early 1941, everyone considered Germany their ally. 2 weeks before the war, TASS stated that rumors about the war were greatly exaggerated. Who said that Germany is our enemy, went to the Gulag.
Is history repeating itself?

[Vadim237]

And even if China launches its ICBMs, our strategic missile forces may not have time to react - the flight time of missiles is only 8-10 minutes.

[Pilat2009]

Quote: Vadim237

And even if China launches its ICBMs, our strategic missile forces may not have time to react - the flight time of missiles is only 8-10 minutes.

Forget about the submarine and tactical nuclear weapons. BTW, the flight time before what? There is more to the European part. And what for China, the radioactive desert?
China has only one way out - the peaceful settlement of the Far Eastern territories. Slowly, quietly form enclaves and then announce about autonomy or accession to China itself.

[gizz]

The army must be ready for anything. To this end, exercises are conducted. And the Chinese will fight in Siberia only if our country is no longer there. Fight for Siberia. And not with us. Say - unlikely? It would be nice if so. But see the beginning: the army should be ready for anything :)

[demiurg]

Quote: Grave With Cross 3

I would believe you if you were Moses. But you are not Moses. In early 1941, everyone considered Germany their ally. 2 weeks before the war, TASS stated that rumors about the war were greatly exaggerated. Who said that Germany is our enemy, went to the Gulag.
Is history repeating itself?

Why does China need Siberia? Really, why?
Will it be justified to capture the area where you can’t live more than a day without sweatshirts and felt boots for 6 months a year if at the same time a lot of the territory located in the tropics is lost (3 crops a year, only a leaf on the nose is needed from the clothes so that the nose does not burn, foundations are almost not are needed, only rich people have walls in half of the brick and other delights) due to strong radioactive contamination?
Moreover, all deposits of oil gas and other amenities are located thousands of kilometers from the Chinese border, and the blitzkrieg will not work.
Even somehow, the history does not recall the seizures by ancient China of the territories in the north.

[Chisayna]

I've been living in Siberia all my life. And I can somehow manage without Jewish prophecies. Professor, see "Schindler's List", the mood will rise.

[Professor]

Quote: Chisain

I've been living in Siberia all my life. And I can somehow manage without Jewish prophecies. Professor, see "Schindler's List", the mood will rise.

Well, what can you do that all prophets are Jews, although not all Jews are prophets. And yes, you will poke yourself you know where, the Siberian Chisayn with the American flag.

[Gippo]

The professor beautifully washed the Siberian cistern.

[NordUral]

The Chinese are well done! Not bahwalba and theft, but business.

[Ajent cho]

Not bahwalba and theft, but business.

Well, if you say that, it means that it is. Stopudovo.

[Utlan]

Well, what can you do that all prophets are Jews, although not all Jews are prophets. And yes, you will poke yourself you know where, the Siberian Chisayn with the American flag. [/ Quote]


That's why I don't like Jews for their megalomania. Well, just where to go without them, and the prophets are all Jews, etc., etc. I am beginning to understand where "new historical data" came from in Ukraine about the fact that both Buddha and Jesus and the first pharaoh of Egypt were hiding. Straight and you don't know what we would have done without you. By the fact that Jews run the country!

[dmitrii.safonov.dm]

That's why I do not like Jews for their megalomania. Well, right where to go without them and the prophets are all Jews, etc., etc.
Well, not all of them, first of all, IT'S A PROFESSOR !!! And what about he has girls, also a question? As for honor and mind, there are no questions!

[Engineer]

Russia's famous "Troichetka"

Triad? Did the author invent this himself? Maybe the famous Bahce?

[Waran]

Well done Chinese:
"the troops could already have received about 400 vehicles of this modification"
Even if it is 4 times less, it is still 100 times more than our troops received "Kurgansev" :(
Ordinary, huh?

[k_ply]

The final version of the ZVD-04 BMP is the ZVD-08, not the best, but one of the best, probably from a similar Military-Today list (in the same TTX): http://www.military-today.com/apc/top_10_infantry_fighting_vehicles.htm
the order of the list is a separate topic, it is interesting that two 8x8 cars were lit up here, one of them is the 30-ton Pirana-5 (https://www.gdels.com/brochures/piranha_5_eng.pdf) with the DBM Protector MCT-30 ( 30x173 mm Mk44 Bushmaster II) from the Norwegian Kongsberg, the DBM is also selected for installation on the Stryker armored personnel carrier (8x8).
It doesn't matter who and when borrowed something from someone, got a license, copied it, then independently modified it and called it in its own way, whether the gun part (2A70 / 2A72), suspension, etc., are borrowed by many, many, for example, DBM and automatic cannons, German diesel engines and gearboxes, etc., tady "purebred" BMPs will be ours, a German (without Spike ATGM), a Swede, a British and an American on a harp, even without an Italian and a South Korean.
The ability of the PRC to deploy mass production is striking. Traditionally, the plug is not even in assembly quality, but in materials (metals, alloys), even though here we and the West keep them in a black body, IMHO.

Quote: cosmos111

On the BTR-T "Namer" the DUDM from "Raphael" was already ready, but all the "obstinacy" was in the tactics of the IDF.

"Namer" with DUBM 30-mm "Samson" from "Raphael".

Such a DBM in Czech Pandur-2. A similar DBM from Elbit - UT30 (Mk44 Bushmaster II), was noted on the Belgian Piran-3C (DF30).
Military doctrine is crucial. So why does Israel need a BMP and a new type of ammunition in the nomenclature? modern armored personnel carriers and, most importantly, with ATGMs (for small armored personnel carriers Nomer small-caliber guns are not so dangerous) armies of neighboring Egypt, Jordan and Syria, and those that are (BMP-1 / -2, AIFV / YPR-765) are probably not perceived AOI is seriously fighting survivability, with the likelihood of confrontation with the Egyptians and Saudis (M2A2) disappearing as US allies, and the Jordanian monarchy is under British influence.

[k_ply]

Quote: tchoni

Most tank-dangerous targets are struck by the caliber of personal weapons.

What nonsense! From personal weapons, but in motion ?! Tank hazardous enemy targets: tanks, infantry fighting vehicles with ATGMs, SPU ATGMs, calculations of ATs and recoilless guns, portable ATGMs, often located within 0,5 km or more.? is it really only one-time RPGs with a range of 150-200m and martyrs? The SLA and the armament stabilizer of the classic BMP will do better, and even better than most DBMS and especially light machine guns. Infantry light and medium mortars, 30/40-mm AGS are also better off, but this is a group weapon, incl. 7,62 mm single machine guns PKM and Pecheneg.

[Petrik66]

I visit China often. The Chinese live their Chinese life, which is rather difficult and they are not going to go to anybody. All these fakes from our "marshals" - like one Chinese person told them ... Is it Chinese? or so, to maintain the theme? Well, they copied another tank, so did their tanks break down in the tank biathlon? But these are selected crews and equipment. By the way ... you won't see local brands in Shanghai, everyone drives American models assembled in China: Buick, Lincoln, etc. quite a decent technique. Draw your own conclusions.