Military Review

Borisov: development of PAK DA will not stop

76
Work on creating a long-range airline complex aviation (PAK YES) will not stop, reports MIC with reference to the Deputy Minister of Defense Yuri Borisov.




"We certainly will not stop work on the development of a promising long-range aviation complex,"
Borisov said at the congress of aircraft manufacturers in Zhukovsky.

Touching upon the modernization of the Tu-160 bomber, the deputy minister said: “The Tu-160М2, in fact, turned out to be different, with new capabilities and flight-technical and resource characteristics. And in combat use is significantly higher than its progenitor. "

He stressed that "all those innovations that are born today should be embodied in the next model, which will replace the Tu-160 of the new look."

The newspaper reminds that it was previously planned to begin the delivery of PAK DA to the military department in 2023-2025. It was reported that its first flight should take place in 2019-2020. However, later it became known that the development of the complex in terms of shifts in connection with the decision of the government to resume production of the upgraded Tu-160.
Photos used:
http://bastion-karpenko.ru
76 comments
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  1. Error
    Error April 16 2016 09: 49
    +12
    Yes, it has already been said that stopping it is not profitable in terms of money!
    1. queen
      queen April 16 2016 09: 52
      +28
      Quote: Error
      in terms of money

      In terms of progress and technology
      1. K-50
        K-50 April 16 2016 09: 58
        +7
        Quote: regin
        In terms of progress and technology

        What progress did technology mean?
        Avionics TU-160 is being modernized, the glider he, not afraid of the word, is magnificent.
        The general concept is very good.
        If only we will talk about engines on a new principle - detonation combustion.
        But engines are not the whole plane and investments require much less.
        So why, due to new engines, start building a new aircraft?
        Indeed - there is nowhere to put the money! request
        1. Botanologist
          Botanologist April 16 2016 10: 26
          +15
          Quote: K-50
          So why, due to new engines, start building a new aircraft?


          Stealth is a new concept for combat use. That is, the aircraft itself carries new technologies, and its presence also changes the control system and the nature of hostilities. And you can’t do without it.
          1. aktanir
            aktanir April 16 2016 11: 22
            -21%
            Better new than modernized old. Why push so much money into the Tu-160 when you can make a more innovative and progressive product to them ??? Apparently, the Western sanctions did not allow our engineers to frolic in the embodiment of the idea of ​​creating a new super bomber using, possibly, Western technologies. And as a result, a new project - on the far shelf, the repair of existing aircraft - is becoming a priority.
            1. vv3
              vv3 April 16 2016 13: 54
              +9
              I thought so too. But I came to the conclusion that the organization of PAK DA production is a very difficult task and an attempt to launch the production of TU-160 is preparation for such a production. And without such a step, the risks are too great to fail and throw enormous funds into the wind. In this regard, cooperation is very appropriate with another project, the creation of the MS-21 trunk liner. You can find a lot in common in these projects.
            2. Lex.
              Lex. April 16 2016 13: 59
              +5
              better new than modernized old
              T-50s have been testing for 6 years, but no less than a pack, and we need an airplane now. Moreover, it is easier to resume production than to start from scratch
              1. yehat
                yehat April 18 2016 15: 55
                +1
                you do not understand. PAK DA is a completely different concept compared to the Tu-22 and Tu-160. A completely different bomber jacket. Since the time of the Tu-16, we have not done such for many years
                The modernization of the Tu-160 will make some contribution, first of all, an understanding of production capacities, but technologically it will give very little to the PAK DA project.
                Again, who in our country is now making the flow of new subsonic jet engines? Yes, no one. Large-scale work on the product 30 is a completely different topic.
                1. Chatlanen
                  Chatlanen April 19 2016 09: 20
                  0
                  Enlighten please, what is this concept? Again we will catch up with the Americans on the stealth?
            3. hartlend
              hartlend April 16 2016 16: 20
              +2
              Strategic missile carriers are needed "yesterday," but there is no new one yet. Therefore, TU-160 not only modernize the existing samples, but also resume production. In general, there is good news about PAK YES, I thought it was forgotten during the crisis.
            4. LOCKS
              LOCKS April 17 2016 09: 14
              +1
              Better new than modernized old.


              I would not be so categorical. F-35 is a worthy example .....
            5. venik
              venik April 17 2016 11: 29
              +2
              Quote: aktanir
              Better new than modernized old. Why push so much money into the Tu-160 when you can make a more innovative and progressive product to them ???

              Firstly. The creation of equipment with characteristics that are not much superior to the previous model is an impermissible luxury, with enormous costs,
              which only the "states" can afford, and even then not often.
              Let's not forget that each model of weapons and military equipment has its own "life cycle" (time and money spent on development, mass production,
              the creation of a repair and technical base, the development of troops, etc. etc.). The cycle is very long (sometimes stretched for decades) and extremely costly, especially considering that
              the technique is becoming more and more expensive, sometimes going beyond reason !! That only one state-owned B-2 Spirit is worth.
              And to replace such a technique, it is advisable only when it is completely outdated (both morally and technically), and when it is replaced by samples with a PRINCIPLE (I emphasize once again - PRINCIPLE!)
              new features and capabilities !!! There were so many examples when excellent BT models were not accepted for service, because there were already cars in mass production, albeit worse,
              but not by much.

              Now - just the case! Lebed has a colossal modernization potential. Such machines are needed, but there are very few of them! What to replace?
              Let's not forget that today some fundamentally new types of equipment are on the way (radio-photonic radars, engines, "smart casing", structural and radio-absorbing materials,
              laser weapons, plasma generators, etc., etc.), and the use of many of these innovations on devices of existing types will be difficult or impossible in principle.
              And then LA will require a fundamentally different design! And they are already being developed (including and PAK-YES).
              So, the decision on "Swans" seems to be very SANE!

              Quote: aktanir
              Apparently, the Western sanctions did not allow our engineers to frolic in the embodiment of the idea of ​​creating a new super bomber using, possibly, Western technologies. And as a result, a new project - on the far shelf, the repair of existing aircraft - is becoming a priority.


              As for the dependence on "Western technologies", then you, dear, are simply incompetent! Back in the days of the USSR, not only revolutionary "developments" were created, many of which are used to this day,
              but most importantly, scientific and design SCHOOLS were created, most of which were still managed to be preserved !. So who is behind whom and in what area is another question !!!
              1. yehat
                yehat April 18 2016 15: 57
                +1
                Yes? and how many specialists - representatives of these schools under 60 can you name?
            6. edge
              edge April 19 2016 03: 08
              +1
              Quote: aktanir
              Better new than modernized old. Why so much money in the Tu-160

              He can only call a machine that does not have world analogues, has not even come close to exhausting its resources, and has an incredible potential for modernization: which, moreover, cannot be caught up with NATO fighters -... junk.
          2. vv3
            vv3 April 16 2016 14: 19
            +2
            The nature of modern combat operations determines the level of information support, or rather, a modern combat information-control system. And even such a powerful aircraft is only an element of this non-existent system. The creation of such a system, or at least local elements of this system, is a priority task. Since this task difficult, they prefer to keep silent about it, but instead continue to improve the means of destruction, i.e., the final elements of this system. Without such a system, the ultramodern means created cannot realize the opportunities inherent in them. But no one wants to notice this and continue to spend money on what we can do, and not on what we need. This state of affairs must be changed. Otherwise: 41 years.
        2. twincam
          twincam April 16 2016 10: 43
          +16
          according to this logic, it was possible not to do armature, but to ride a deeply modernized T-34.
        3. Aleksey_K
          Aleksey_K April 16 2016 13: 31
          +1
          Quote: K-50
          What progress did technology mean?

          Previous readers talked about designing the PAK DA, and not about upgrading the Tu-160.
        4. vv3
          vv3 April 16 2016 13: 38
          -2
          Aircraft with variable wing geometry is not great from a modern point of view. This is a compromise when they win in aerodynamics and lose in resource and layout optimality. No big words, and this circuit is usually no longer used, unless with weak engines.
          1. vikmar64
            vikmar64 April 18 2016 07: 32
            0
            Quote: vv3
            Aircraft with variable wing geometry is not great from a modern point of view. This is a compromise when they win in aerodynamics and lose in resource and layout optimality. No big words, and this circuit is usually no longer used, unless with weak engines.

            But this is a controversial issue. Tu-160 is positioned as a "multi-mode" aircraft, ie. it provides acceptable performance in various flight modes: take-off and landing, cruising subsonic, supersonic in terrain enveloping mode, supersonic at high altitude. None of the existing aircraft of the standard scheme (without variable sweep) provides such a variety of flight modes (When the Tu-160 in the maximum sweep configuration goes at low altitude - this is poetry! Words cannot describe it in a word!).
            Having approved the new PAK DA scheme (improved stealth parameters and the ability to base it on almost any airport, we are not talking about equipment) the RF Armed Forces Defense Ministry apparently did not dare to abandon such a universal platform as the Tu-160 (and rightly so!). A few decades after the adoption of the Tu-160M2 and PAK DA will harmoniously complement each other.
        5. gridasov
          gridasov April 16 2016 15: 19
          +1
          New technologies in aircraft construction will directly depend on what the engine will be. The modern glider and its flight quality depends on the planes that control the direction of air flow. That is, it is passive flight control. In other words, the plane pushes the engine, and the control of the longitudinal motion vector is changed by the control planes. However, it is time for everyone to understand that we need a single engine that can redistribute jet flows along the entire azimuth of the coordinate system of the entire aircraft. And this is possible with the new turbine concept, which is not direct-flow. Moreover, its effectiveness is orders of magnitude higher and any physicist will understand this if shown to him. This means that the simplest (and it is worth saying much simpler methods) will allow you to either concentrate the entire flow in one direction or instantly redirect it in the opposite direction, or direct flows in any direction. Then you can talk about a new stage in achieving maneuverability.
        6. avia1991
          avia1991 April 16 2016 19: 19
          0
          Quote: K-50
          why because of new engines to start building a new aircraft?
          Then that
          Quote: K-50
          not afraid of the word, magnificent
          the Tu-160 glider is already a relic of the past. It is beautiful - no doubt, it is as efficient as possible, but at the same time it has serious disadvantages - in particular, the wing turning mechanism greatly complicates the design from an engineering point of view, and unnecessarily makes the aircraft heavier. And considering that supersonic for "strategists" is not a necessary condition for efficiency today, it is possible to build an aircraft with the best mass-dimensional characteristics, and equip it from the outset with all the necessary equipment of "tomorrow" without engaging in deep modernization - in fact, almost complete disassembly. assembly of an existing aircraft.
          And sorry What do you suggest - another 100 years to fly the Tu-160? .. I think you didn’t mean it. And if so, then the development of PAK YES is necessary "yesterday", which is being done, thank God. Otherwise, we will approach the moment of the overdue replacement of "strategists" empty-handed. hi
          1. vv3
            vv3 April 16 2016 21: 51
            0
            You might think that we have idle production running idle, and we argue about what to do with it. The problems with the resumption of production of the TU-160 are huge, first solve them, and then move on at this base. Although you can and can, it’s not the same thing.
            1. avia1991
              avia1991 April 16 2016 22: 42
              +1
              Quote: vv3
              solve them first, and then move on at this base

              May we not move "on this base"! We must move in parallel! To restore what is and develop new! Because the new aircraft will require devices of a different quality, and new materials and technologies! And it takes a lot of time to create and develop them. Because "first this, then - that" - will not work already, we will be late.
              PS And who put these minuses to me, interesting? I do not mind - but where are your reasonable objections, lads ?! Or there’s nothing to say - but I want to catch it in person ?! wassat
              1. gridasov
                gridasov April 16 2016 22: 58
                0
                It is said abstractly, but essentially correctly. Only the methodology, again, of searching for and mastering new knowledge should be built on algorithms and principles that few people think about. Everyone thinks that you can just think and success will be achieved from this. Alas!
              2. ty60
                ty60 April 17 2016 01: 29
                +1
                Here are instruments and new materials, avionics and electronic warfare systems, flying around the terrain at low altitudes - all this is in the future. Proceedings from the current MODERNIZATION! Here both the design and development of technologies and the DEVELOPMENT in the process of application! GIPS REMOVE! The client is LEAVING!
        7. yehat
          yehat April 18 2016 15: 44
          0
          PAK YES plan to create subsonic
          for these purposes, the Tu-160 glider is not maximally effective
          In addition, the glider has wear and tear, sooner or later, you need to change it
        8. ver_
          ver_ April 18 2016 16: 08
          0
          ... all the more so all of a sudden the mattress on ribbons would fall apart by then ..
        9. Xsanchez
          Xsanchez April 18 2016 19: 39
          +2
          They want to increase quantitatively, because TU-95 by 2020. At the expense of TU-22M3, they will be modernized, but will not be released, and the decommissioning will begin closer to 2040. The TU-160 itself is only 16 pieces, but more than 50 are needed. So, there is something to be done.
      2. Blondy
        Blondy April 16 2016 13: 59
        +5
        Yes, the main thing is not to stop, or non-stop, but what is laid down in the project. A simple example is the new space launch site with forged carriers. It seems to be a solid news, but according to PR, the advanced is nowhere further. Well, what does this news look like when compared with the Energy - Buran - Skif complex (well, also the Spiral to the heap). He is drawn only to the successful cutting of the people's money, and by no means to a breakthrough in the cosmonautics. The Titans are gone and the managers have come to replace - from now on and for a decent salary. And it’s not even about money, but ten more children developing the dog under the tail.
        And it seems to me that the Tu160 will cope with the tasks in the near future. It is probably possible to reconsider the long-term perspective, so that you will not be ashamed of what you have embodied in front of your children and grandchildren. And they did not beat the USSR with a "face" ...
        1. Basarev
          Basarev April 17 2016 08: 15
          0
          Let's be honest. Tu-160 - ancient Soviet trash and pushing them PAK DA - means to preserve its developmental lag. Yes, and PAK YES is not so new. There is evidence that he is only a slightly less ancient Soviet project of perestroika times. Good country needs a completely new project.
    2. yehat
      yehat April 18 2016 15: 45
      0
      I wonder if there is a direct connection between the creation of a new avionics for the PAK DA and the modernization of the Tu-160 with the replacement of the same avionics?
  2. WE ARE MAKING
    WE ARE MAKING April 16 2016 09: 57
    +7
    Let at least one - two copies, but for the sake of developments, they will build it.
    1. grandson of the hero
      grandson of the hero April 16 2016 10: 13
      +3
      This is a complex, the basis for further developments based on it. Maybe like Almaty.
      Perhaps new challenges and experience gained in Syria affect its creation.
      It’s much easier to make an airplane (as separate guys). The main thing is to take into account possible threats of the latest and promising developments and minimize their impact.
      So, this is the basic module for certain years to come.
      1. Iline
        Iline April 16 2016 11: 18
        +2
        Quote: Hero's grandson
        This is a complex, the basis for further developments based on it.

        And what specific developments are you talking about? Engines and those do not really change. All the difference in the new Tu-160 from the old one is in eliminating old shortcomings and replacing equipment that has long been out of production (and hence the problems with serviceability and repair) with a new and purely Russian one. Though kill me - I do not see anything breakthrough at the beginning of the release of this aircraft. I agree that some combat characteristics will improve (while time goes on and the technology develops), but you can’t do anything fundamentally new with the old glider.
        And money in the resumption of its production swell exorbitantly. It would be better to focus on one thing. All this gets a bad smell from lobbying someone’s financial interests for state (ours) money.
        1. v.yegorov
          v.yegorov April 16 2016 13: 37
          +1
          Though kill me - I do not see anything breakthrough at the beginning of the release of this aircraft.

          Yes, our industry will not be able to release it, for
          it will be a real breakthrough. So, it’s better to do
          modernization and in parallel, preparation for production
          new aircraft.
  3. weksha50
    weksha50 April 16 2016 10: 05
    +2
    "the development of the complex in terms of time is shifted to the right" ...

    The main thing is to get a good, modern, reliable, and - I beg your pardon - a "killing" machine for the enemy ...

    With the same reserve of possibilities with which the Tu-160 was created ...
  4. Barakuda
    Barakuda April 16 2016 10: 09
    +9
    In the pipe in the photo, a pretty pretty model smile Yes, and the news is completely nothing. All at once (ships, submarines, tanks, planes) is new, alas, to build, to create time and money is not enough (in the amount in which we would like). There is a desire, work is underway, already positive.
    1. lelikas
      lelikas April 16 2016 10: 54
      +2
      Quote: Barracuda
      In the pipe in the photo is a pretty pretty model. Yes, and the news is completely nothing.

      This model, built back in the 11th year .....
  5. cedar
    cedar April 16 2016 10: 11
    +6
    It is important to restore and enhance the capabilities of scientific and production teams involved in aircraft manufacturing. Let them be surrounded by the latest technologies, progressive methods of work and financial opportunities, which were largely destroyed by the economic and social bombing of the West. But the main thing is the arrival of young, talented youth into collectives. It is in order for it to be and it is necessary to maintain and develop promising projects, in particular PAK YES!
    1. ty60
      ty60 April 17 2016 01: 35
      0
      Here I’m talking about. Already designed to at least do something to learn, there will be shots. And we’ll either buy the equipment needed for production or on the go as the Chinese copy. They use our past experience — the beginning of the last century.
  6. aszzz888
    aszzz888 April 16 2016 10: 49
    +1
    "We certainly will not stop work on the development of a promising long-range aviation complex,"

    And this is good for us! And our enemies - envy.
  7. nazar_0753
    nazar_0753 April 16 2016 10: 58
    +4
    I really hope to get to its development and further operational support (I am currently studying under the target contract from Tupolev at Bauman Moscow State Technical University, in the direction of electronic systems). I heard out of the corner of my ear that the actual function of a missile carrier would be non-core. And he will be able to carry out, thanks to a powerful electronic complex, some tasks from this sphere (maybe it will also be target designation, I don’t know). In general - time will tell hi
    1. Anchonsha
      Anchonsha April 16 2016 13: 27
      +2
      Good luck in desires and I envy a lot of things that you can still add up.
    2. ty60
      ty60 April 17 2016 01: 36
      0
      Success in mastering new frontiers!
  8. Aaron Zawi
    Aaron Zawi April 16 2016 11: 03
    +8
    Any investment in new cars will end up being fired. The fact that Russia did not stop developing fifth-generation fighters even in the most difficult years yielded results. The process is on.
    T-50-6-2 - engine development began, April 10-12 - frequency tests with the new version of the KSU, the first flight on the schedule - 23.04.
    T-50-8 - RPP is being applied, completion on schedule - 28.04/XNUMX.
    T-50-9 - covering with composite panels of the SChF, docking of the OChK until 20.04.
    T-50-10 - fuselage docking completed.
    T-50-11 - the center section is docked.
    A decision was made about the "serial face" of the T-50 - a complex of onboard equipment like the T-50-9, the airframe like the T-50-11.
    1. ism_ek
      ism_ek April 18 2016 18: 52
      0
      KB Sukhoi did not stop. The plane was developed due to export orders. Russia has nothing to do with it ...
  9. Viktor fm
    Viktor fm April 16 2016 11: 12
    -1
    It seems to me that an incompetent high boss got into this mess with the resumption of production of the Tu-160, because the costs of creating a PAK YES in this case increase, and the terms are shifted. An example is evident. Old frets do not help in creating new car models. For example, developments with the Tu-160 will appear, but for PAK DA, it will still be necessary to build new enterprises, and this is a waste.
    1. ty60
      ty60 April 17 2016 01: 40
      +1
      A set of electronics worked out with the prospect on the contrary reduces costs due to mass production. Go ... to Marx!
  10. cergey51046
    cergey51046 April 16 2016 11: 21
    0
    It does not interfere. Let it be both.
  11. rubin6286
    rubin6286 April 16 2016 11: 26
    +2
    Strategic missile carrier aircraft, which is one of the elements of the Russian nuclear triad and which is part of the aerospace forces, is rapidly aging and, in this sense, the decision to restore the production of the modernized Tu-160 seems to be a step in the right direction, since many technical solutions incorporated into the machine’s design - are still advanced and correspond to modern views on the combat use of strategic strike forces. It is cheaper R&D to create a fundamentally new aircraft, the process of adoption of which may take many years. The PACDA project will certainly not stop, but for a very long time “it won’t see the light”.
  12. Torins
    Torins April 16 2016 11: 42
    0
    Quote: Botanologist
    Quote: K-50
    So why, due to new engines, start building a new aircraft?


    Stealth is a new concept for combat use. That is, the aircraft itself carries new technologies, and its presence also changes the control system and the nature of hostilities. And you can’t do without it.

    Yeah, and that bullshit that a new generation of optoelectronic detection systems will make stealth technology useless wink It is a pity, though, in the next 20 years we won’t see anything like this, but investing all the money exclusively in stealth technology is somewhat unwise :)
  13. max2215
    max2215 April 16 2016 11: 47
    +6
    Strategic missile carrier aircraft, which is one of the elements of the Russian nuclear triad and part of the aerospace forces, is rapidly aging and
    that’s the problem PAK YES is a matter of the near future, and strategists are needed now, the situation in the world is tense. The TU-160 is still able to break through its partner’s air defense, but there are few of them! When it gets on the wing PAK YES, probably not even the chief designer knows.
    The "partners", after all, everything is not without cloudy - except for the B-52, everything is show-off - either a little, because it is expensive, or generally only for exhibitions, because it sucks.
    And a certain number of TU-160, modernized, will keep the "partners" sober for a long time ...
  14. Starik. 47
    Starik. 47 April 16 2016 12: 02
    +1
    Fully agree with rubin.As long as the self-sufficient Tu-160 will develop a resource, the modernized Tu-160M2 will do. Strategic aviation will be provided for 20 years. This period is approximately required for the commissioning of the PAK-DA. In short, "dear testicle for Christ's day."
  15. Verdun
    Verdun April 16 2016 12: 39
    +1
    New developments must be ongoing. It is very important that the next development is started not after the end of the previous one, but a maximum of a couple of years after its start. This would allow to develop not only in technical, but also in personnel matters. The engineer at the computer and the turner at the machine should be constantly involved in the work to the fullest. This allows them to stay in shape all the time, as athletes regularly participating in competitions. And, characteristically, to achieve better results.
  16. Termit1309
    Termit1309 April 16 2016 13: 01
    +1
    Quote: Iline

    And what specific developments are you talking about? Engines and those do not really change. All the difference in the new Tu-160 from the old one is in eliminating old shortcomings and replacing equipment that has long been out of production (and hence the problems with serviceability and repair) with a new and purely Russian one. Though kill me - I do not see anything breakthrough at the beginning of the release of this aircraft. I agree that some combat characteristics will improve (while time goes on and the technology develops), but you can’t do anything fundamentally new with the old glider.
    And money in the resumption of its production swell exorbitantly. It would be better to focus on one thing. All this gets a bad smell from lobbying someone’s financial interests for state (ours) money.

    KB capable of creating a strategist are either deep in. , or simply ceased to exist. It is possible, evaluating the state of our design bureaus, the option was proposed to practice on (mice) TU-160
  17. Anchonsha
    Anchonsha April 16 2016 13: 34
    0
    Naturally, at the moment it is necessary to modernize the Tu-160 and do not need to drive the development of PAK YES, so that later it can be obtained raw. We now need to strengthen the aerospace forces and continue the development of a new generation aircraft. I would like everything new at once, but we need to reform our economy.
  18. The comment was deleted.
  19. 1234567
    1234567 April 16 2016 15: 26
    -5
    Harosho .. Type it is necessary here .. 10 com .. I write nonsense
  20. Verdun
    Verdun April 16 2016 16: 55
    -1
    Quote: Termit1309
    KB capable of creating a strategist are either deep in. , or simply ceased to exist. Quite possible

    Well, you have to somehow pull them out. It is clear that for many topics even the point of return has been passed. But without work, even what remains is not preserved.
  21. alisarow
    alisarow April 16 2016 19: 06
    -1
    Maxim magazine issued instructions on how to become a male and satisfy any girl, I was shocked by the result and it really works! here is that article --- bit.do/macsho
    1. Bort radist
      Bort radist April 16 2016 20: 14
      +1
      Quote: alisarow
      Maxim magazine issued instructions

      You didn’t get there a little, they satisfy here without instructions and to the core.
  22. Filxnumx
    Filxnumx April 16 2016 20: 36
    +2
    Quote: lelikas
    Quote: Barracuda
    In the pipe in the photo is a pretty pretty model. Yes, and the news is completely nothing.

    This model, built back in the 11th year .....

    I will tell you a "terrible secret". German aircraft designers developed such models back in 1944. The usual classic, only with a wide "load-bearing" fuselage.
  23. vv3
    vv3 April 16 2016 22: 41
    0
    Analyzing Borisov’s comments, one gets the impression that a person has taken off the ground. This is dangerous for a state person, it’s time to land him. Any statement, if this is not empty phrasing, is preceded by reflection, analysis of opportunities, and not empty listing of what is desired. Civil projects are very relevant aviation, for example, MS-21. I understand that this is a different agency, but one thing ... How would you not tear your navel in the conditions of crisis and sanctions ...
  24. tolmachiev51
    tolmachiev51 April 17 2016 04: 12
    0
    Financing is the main problem of the military-industrial complex. At present, modernization is naturally better for us than the release of new products, because it doesn’t need years, but decades from development to a series, especially since the older equipment meets all modern requirements.
    1. yehat
      yehat April 18 2016 16: 03
      +1
      the problem of our military-industrial complex is, first of all, the terrible conditions for production in the country.
      not only is the climate not so good, but the economic conditions are murderous.
      until this changes, component suppliers will be a constant disaster for any industry
  25. Go outside
    Go outside April 17 2016 08: 05
    +3
    I read komenty - it all boils down to one thing: are polymers, Jura
  26. Eugen
    Eugen April 18 2016 16: 41
    +1
    The idea of ​​assembling several Tu-160s is not bad in terms of construction of subsequently PAK-DA facilities.
    Those who will now start working on the carcass will be able to restore equipment even by looking at the still living machines. And then a considerable team of workers and engineers, who will imagine what’s happening in terms of organizing the production of such machines. But new things should be developed and changes with modernizations should be made, but according to the strategy.
  27. Vlad5307
    Vlad5307 April 18 2016 18: 51
    0
    Quote: Talker
    If the new slips and does not stick, then they return to the old. It’s too tough to see a modern bomber in modern Russia. So let them at least restore the production of the old Soviet aircraft.

    They told you in plain Russian - the potential of the Tu-160 is so great and sufficient that there is no need to speed up the development of the new PAK YES if the modernized Tu-160M2 is sufficient until 2030! If you are a domestic multi-billionaire and you have nowhere to put money, then invest in PAK YES and many pensioners of the Russian Federation will thank you! And from me you have a fat minus. hi
  28. Vlad5307
    Vlad5307 April 18 2016 19: 03
    0
    Quote: gridasov
    However, it is time for everyone to understand that we need a single engine that can redistribute jet flows along the entire azimuth of the coordinate system of the entire aircraft. And this is possible with the new turbine concept, which is not direct-flow. Moreover, its effectiveness is orders of magnitude higher and any physicist will understand this if shown to him. This means that the simplest (and it is worth saying much simpler methods) will allow you to either concentrate the entire flow in one direction or instantly redirect it in the opposite direction, or direct flows in any direction.

    I understand you - you suggest making a flying saucer! Go to the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation with offers and a prototype in the form of a model! hi
    1. gridasov
      gridasov April 18 2016 19: 33
      0
      To some extent you are right. Only a biconvex disk is optimal for flights in several other spheres of space. But the optimal concept of a geometric shape for the environments of our planet has a shape to which, in fact, everyone subconsciously strives. Moreover, the new turbine simply simplifies the flight and makes it possible to make the flight absolutely safe and manageable in automatic mode. Active flight control, if I may call it that, is more promising than any other methods.
  29. Dal arya
    Dal arya April 19 2016 00: 11
    0
    T-4MS or ,, two hundred,.. After all, it was already. And there were laudatory odes, no, poheril, like so much more. Truly, everything new is well forgotten old.
  30. Yarhann
    Yarhann April 22 2016 19: 40
    0
    By the way, what about the PAK DA and the mattress PAK DA - that they are that we are developing hypersonic missile weapons for the carriers of both the conventional and WMD charges. So, given the small range of these weapons, as I suspect, both ours and they will simply have to make new carriers for these weapons and it is not yet known which concept they will choose - either the same quick approach to the launch zone and home like that 160 or subsonic patrol in radio silence mode and passive tracking of the outside world and, if necessary, the same careful passage into the launch zone.