In the VKS of the Russian Federation called the most likely cause of the crash of the Mi-28H helicopter in Syria

A commission investigating the cause of the crash of the Russian attack helicopter Mi-28Н (“Night Hunter”) announced the preliminary results of the investigation. Information Agency TASS with reference to a source in the headquarters of the Russian Aerospace Force of the Russian Federation reports that, according to experts, the notorious human factor was the cause of the helicopter crash.

The preliminary results of the investigation suggest that the helicopter crash is due to a crew error.

TASS with reference to a source in military circles:

According to preliminary findings of the commission, the human factor was the cause of the Mi-28H disaster in Syria.

At the same time, research of materials continues, and the version is not removed from the agenda that a technical malfunction could have occurred, forcing pilots to make a mistake.

Recall that the helicopter Mi-28H crashed on the eve of the province of Homs. He fell in an area controlled by Syrian government forces. Both pilots died.

No impact was detected on the wreckage of the helicopter that could indicate an attack from the ground. Flight recorders were found at the helicopter crash site and sent to Moscow for research.

Comments

[ALEXX.]

Sorry for the pilots.

[kodxnumx]

I don’t want to say what the Mi-28N machine is really good, but there are some problems if it crashes so often. You can’t say the same about the MI-24, I think that over time all the children's sores will be cured! Although of course the error factor could be and there is!

[ver_]

... if the screw is cut off - krants ..

[pv1005]

Quote: ver_

... if the screw is cut off - krants ..

Yah? And why the autorotation?

[Ramzaj99]

Quote: pv1005

Yah? And why the autorotation?

Autorotation can save on a light machine, and then if you are very lucky.
A heavy combat, hung with armor and weapons, no autorotation will save.

[Locksmith]

Quote: Ramzaj99

A heavy combat, hung with armor and weapons, no autorotation will save.

But how does he poor fly something ?? Autorotation is the essence of reducing the speed of vertical decline to safe, it does not need horizontal speed, it needs a TRAINED CREW, because autorotation is at the negative angles of the OP — only in this case the rotor will UNLOAD while decreasing, you need to have a certain courage to decide such and a very sickly raid that would be close to the ground to switch the PR to a positive step, not earlier and to land a helicopter, this is more an art, and even in the dark ....

[acidburn]

Maybe they got into the vortex ring. It can. There are no parts.

[jPilot]

On the fingers, the vortex ring mode occurs at a high vertical (Vy) and low translational velocity (Vx). Those. translating to idle, you have to pour from a great height to get into this mode. Which was definitely not the case, because the guys worked for PMA.

[Ramzaj99]

Quote: Locksmith

But how does he poor fly something ?? Autorotation is the essence of reducing the speed of vertical decline to safe, it does not need horizontal speed, it needs a TRAINED CREW, because autorotation is at the negative angles of the OP — only in this case the rotor will UNLOAD while decreasing, you need to have a certain courage to decide it’s such a very sickly raid that it would be close to the ground to switch the PR to a positive step — not earlier and land a helicopter, it’s rather an art, and even in the dark

Something brought you somewhere wrong .......
The propeller autorotation (rotation from the incident flow) occurs when the engine fails or is turned off in flight. And here "But how is he a poor flyer ??"
Roughly speaking, this is an uncontrollable fall. To prevent this unpleasant phenomenon, all modern turboprop engines have automatic and manual feathering systems, in case of engine shutdown in flight, they install (rotate) the propeller blades “downstream”. The screw thus has a minimum drag and does not rotate. To start the turboprop engine in flight, the screw is pulled out of the vane position and begins to spin the engine. When a certain speed is reached, the ignition system and fuel supply are switched on - “autorotation start”. If the start fails, the light vehicle due to autorotation can fall with minimal damage, the heavy one cannot.

[Ramzaj99]

Quote: Ramzaj99

Roughly speaking, this is an uncontrollable fall.

A little not so put it.
This is a PARTLY controlled drop. And with ultralight gyroplanes, this is generally an operating mode.

[jPilot]

How do you "touch" me "experts", especially those who heard the ringing.
Let's order.
1st: not the rotor, but HB (main rotor), PB (tail rotor), and OP I don’t know such an abbreviation at all. NV in case of engine (s) failure DOES NOT STOP !!!! and they are NOT POSSIBLE to untwist and start engines because the MOA is installed (freewheel)
"... if the propeller is cut out - cranks .." - this is possible only in case of jamming, destruction of the GR (main gearbox), but this failure is practically absent, although the instructions to the crew contain actions for this failure. Well, a gearbox cannot without signs: an increase in oil pressure, an increase in oil temperature, vibration and extraneous noise, take and fall apart.
I hope this issue has been sorted out.
Let's go back to HB. Once again, in a regular flight, it is UNSCREWED by the engines and positive angles of attack of the blades, it works with the atmosphere (Lord, what nonsense I am talking about, who understands do not "laugh" because I can hardly choose words to explain it clearly) creates a lifting force (Thrust HB (Tu)) and also by the inclination of the HB cone, translational thrust (Tx) arises, i.e. the flight speed and, accordingly, the incident flow, as a result of flight in the atmosphere. Vooot hope, though crooked, but everyone understood where the incoming air flow came from, we created it ourselves by accelerating the helicopter in the atmosphere. When the engines are running, due to the positive angles of the blades, the HB is "gnawed" and "screwed" into the air.
And another pilot PILOTS a helicopter RU (control stick), SHG (gas step) (aka cyclic RU) and pedals.
RU-through the AP (swash plate) control the tilt of the cone or traction HB.
ShG-on it the 2nd function: the 1st change in the angle of attack of the blades and the 2nd increase (decrease) in the input power from the engines to the NV because they are interconnected. The larger the angle of attack, the more power is needed and vice versa.
By pedals we control the PB (tail rotor), its purpose is to compensate for the reactive moment from the HB, if it did not exist then the HB would spin in one direction. and a helicopter to another.
Now I’ll try to explain what RSNV is (rotor self-rotation mode)
Well, firstly, on a 2-engine aircraft (aircraft), nothing happens when one engine fails, because one engine can cope with an accident-free landing and moreover, it is quite possible to return to it or take an alternate aerodrome by plane because on one engine, STOCK of power is limited.

[jPilot]

As already stated above, the oncoming high-speed flow we have since the helicopter moves in the atmosphere, now we have a failed engine (on a single engine) or engines. And we need to SAVE before landing the speed of HB. For this, the pilot lowers the SHG down to the stop, thereby setting a negative angle of attack on the blades of the HB, and the previously created incident flow turns into wind, which continues to rotate the HB. It’s the same if you turn off the fan and start blowing on it.
Now the stored energy (revolutions) during landing must be converted into speed damping, this is done by intensive, proportionate taking of the SHG lever, i.e. the angles of attack of the blades are converted from negative to positive, and the HB again briefly begins to row to "push" the air, this is quite smoothly and accurately enough with sufficient skill to land the car. Moreover, regardless of whether it is light or heavy, or even the Mi-26.
Uff, well, something like that.
And this does not fit the definition of either uncontrollable or PARTLY controllable FALL
Moreover, all trainees in piloting helicopters must undergo a training program for switching to RSNV and landing, without this, not a single instructor will give access to independent flights and, moreover, will not put the crew on board. Moreover, at least civilians, even military ones, regardless of experience, train and test (with a record in the flight book) in the ability to pilot in this mode.

[Vovanfalcon]

Sorry, dear! And you also suffered the wrong way. What you write about applies to airplanes, but not to helicopters, and starting the engine from the fact that you set the rotor pitch to a larger one is impossible. For one simple reason - rotor the helicopter is not directly connected to the engine ... IT HAS A "FREE" TURBINE !!!

[Aliv]

There is such an aircraft, called a gyroplane. So, he has a rotor, like a helicopter, but it is simply mounted on a stick and on bearings. And its rotation is provided by the oncoming air flow due to the linear speed of the apparatus. But the linear speed already provides traction screw. So autorotation is precisely the unscrewing of the propeller by an oncoming air stream while reducing the helicopter at an angle to the Earth. In addition, helicopters do not have a negative angle of attack of the blades. It is either zero or positive. And even with a sharp translation of the angle of attack from negative to positive at a sufficient vertical speed, your blades will fly off. IMHO.

[jPilot]

It’s good, of course, that it feels like you are a man who knows BUT for an HB helicopter with min OSH (total pitch) there is a negative angle of attack of the blades because if it weren’t then it would be impossible to spin up the HB again with a loss of speed.
You yourself answered your statement about the blades. Firstly, according to the curves of N.E. Zhukovsky, if you have not lost speed, it is impossible to accelerate the vertical speed to such a mode that the blades fly off and secondly, when landing on the MLRS, "the step is taken in proportion to the rate of land runaway" (excerpt from the Airplane Flight Manual, section Failures) and this is still preceded by a number of actions that must be performed by the FE.

[Marconi41]

Quote: Locksmith

when decreasing, one must have a certain courage to decide on such a very sickly raid that would be close to the ground to switch the PR to a positive step — not earlier and land the helicopter

However, one must also take into account the flight altitude. If the Hunter walked at a low altitude, no autorotation will save him. Not in time. That is why the Kamovtsy are hoping for bailouts, which they are deploying on their machines.

[Rom14]

Anyway, for rotation, I’ve done some work at a minimum height, but they apparently flew very low, plus speed., Sorry for the flyers ...

[Rom14]

Anyway, for rotation, I’ve done some work at a minimum height, but they apparently flew very low, plus speed., Sorry for the flyers ...

[pilot8878]

Quote: Ramzaj99

Autorotation can save on a light machine, and then if you are very lucky.

And the Mi-26 is a light machine ??? You can take an interest in the number of landings on autorotation even in pedovikia.

[Bayonet]

Quote: pv1005

Yah? And why the autorotation?

In order to have time to use the autorotation effect for a soft landing, it is necessary that the helicopter at the time of transition to emergency mode have a sufficient reserve of altitude, or have sufficient horizontal speed. Either one or the other (or better, when both one and the other together)) is necessary in order for the screw to unwind and the aerodynamic forces reach values ​​sufficient to save. Otherwise, the flight is likely to end tragically. The last sentence relates more to military helicopters, because they very often perform their tasks at low altitudes.

[Locksmith]

Quote: Bayonet

so that the helicopter at the time of transition to emergency mode had a sufficient reserve of altitude,

At a low altitude, when the engine fails, it will sit on the inertia of the rotor, it does not need horizontal speed — this is an extra loss for braking in a cyclic step, especially lateral sliding — then the tail actively eats the rotor energy.

[pv1005]

Quote: Bayonet

Quote: pv1005

Yah? And why the autorotation?

In order to have time to use the autorotation effect for a soft landing, it is necessary that the helicopter at the time of transition to emergency mode have a sufficient reserve of altitude, or have sufficient horizontal speed. Either one or the other (or better, when both one and the other together)) is necessary in order for the screw to unwind and the aerodynamic forces reach values ​​sufficient to save. Otherwise, the flight is likely to end tragically. The last sentence relates more to military helicopters, because they very often perform their tasks at low altitudes.

Nobody argues with theory. But a theory without practice is dead. Perhaps that is why in the flight training program there is an exercise for landing a helicopter with one engine. The failure of both engines simultaneously is unlikely (although not 100%). But if the gearbox is covered then yes, cranks.

[jPilot]

In principle, right, only one BUT. as I wrote above, the screw does not need to be untwisted, it is already untwisted. It all depends on readiness and skills.
"either had sufficient horizontal speed" this is the main thing, as a "former" (there is no such thing) military (not a profession, but a lifestyle) I do not like to fly high, and the helicopter is now single-engine, then I am constantly practicing the transition to the RSNV ...
Damn did not have time, the chef ran up to run up. I’ll add it later ....

[Botanologist]

Quote: pv1005

And why the autorotation?

Autorotation is when the pilot at low altitude and close to zero speed enters the mode. And if the engine died at PMV and speeds of 200 - 250, then usually the "mother" DOESN'T MAKE UP.

[pv1005]

Quote: Botanologist

Quote: pv1005

And why the autorotation?

Autorotation is when the pilot at low altitude and close to zero speed enters the mode. And if the engine died at PMV and speeds of 200 - 250, then usually the "mother" DOESN'T MAKE UP.

And what was officially announced that they were going to WWI and the speed was over 200. Initially, comrade ver categorically stated that

Quote: ver_

... if the screw is cut off - krants ..

and they pointed out to him that they are not always crazy. And here begins the proof of the same, but in other words and not that. The axiom "Everything can be, what cannot be ...." I learned in childhood.

[ver_]

..if the gearbox grunts, the screw will be cut out ..

[Alexey RA]

Quote: kod3001

I don’t want to say what the Mi-28N machine is really good at, but there are some problems if it often crashes so often.

Often - is it every 2-3 years?

Quote: kod3001

.that you can’t say about MI-24

Also falling. 1-2 times a year. True, there are many more - and they are at war.

[Bayonet]

Quote: kod3001

I think with time all the children's sores will be healed!

Yes, it's time to grow out of "children's sores". The first flight of the Mi-28 on November 10, 1982, the Mi-28 was put into service in 1995, and already in 1996, the Mi-28 N.

[Kibalchish]

The helicopter has been mass-produced since 2008, what kind of "childhood sores" can there be?

[Muvka]

And what errors can be? I looked at the map, like mountains are not there, trees too. It looks like plowed fields. And of course it’s a pity.

[lelikas]

Quote: Muvka

And what errors can be? I looked at the map, like mountains are not there, trees too. It looks like plowed fields. And of course it’s a pity.

Anyone - eyes with glasses tired - did not correctly estimate the distance to the ground ....
Here, it seems there wasn’t yet -
As a result of the crash of the Mi-28N Night Hunter helicopter, which crashed on April 12 near the city of Homs in Syria, according to preliminary data, two graduates of the Syzran Higher Military Aviation School of Pilots were killed, Little Syzran reports.

“This is commander Andrei Okladnikov of the year 2000 and navigator Viktor Pankov of the year 2011. The helicopter’s crew served in the 487th separate helicopter regiment in Budennovsk, Stavropol Territory, before a business trip to Syria, ”the report said.

The boys are still ....

[Vladimirets]

Quote: lelikas

The boys are still ....

Well, for a pilot, a 2000 graduate is not a kid at all; pension is on the horizon.

[demo]

Sixteen years in the ranks - kid?
Second, yes. Green yet.
Was.

Land they rest in peace. And the kingdom of heaven.
Accept, Lord, their souls.
I sympathize with the grief of their parents and loved ones.

[lelikas]

Quote: Vladimirets

Well, for a pilot, a 2000 graduate is not a kid at all; pension is on the horizon.

My "jamb" - read, without glasses, like 10 and 11 years old. I'm getting old ...

[Vladimirets]

Quote: lelikas

My "jamb" - read, without glasses, like 10 and 11 years old. I'm getting old ...

[marshes]

Quote: Muvka

what errors can be? I looked at the map, like mountains are not there, trees too. It looks like plowed fields. And of course it’s a pity.

Can an electric line be transmitted? For the truth in night piloting it happens.

[Al1977]

Quote: marshes

Can an electric line be transmitted? For the truth in night piloting it happens.

They would have said so, and did not cast a shadow on the wattle fence, but apparently there is a different reason.

eyes with glasses are tired - they did not correctly estimate the distance to the ground ....

At night by eye they estimated the distance to the ground? A variometer them on what .. more

[marshes]

Quote: Al1977

They would have said so, and did not cast a shadow on the wattle fence, but apparently there is a different reason.

It happens that night flights are dangerous.
Yes, he was a carduelis, my father only took me on night flights, there was no one to leave me alone and then on the plane.

Quote: Al1977

At night by eye they estimated the distance to the ground? A variometer them on what .. more

Difficult to estimate distances at night, even with "glasses" and wires are not visible at all.
Have you ever made a left turn in a car at night, when the oncoming traffic is flowing, outside the village. There you can make a "tragic" mistake.
and so sorry for the pilots, the car, there are species but then ...

[Al1977]

Quote: marshes

Can an electric line be transmitted? For the truth in night piloting it happens.

They would have said so, and did not cast a shadow on the wattle fence, but apparently there is a different reason.

eyes with glasses are tired - they did not correctly estimate the distance to the ground ....

At night by eye they estimated the distance to the ground? A variometer them on what .. more

[lelikas]

Quote: Al1977

At night by eye they estimated the distance to the ground? A variometer them on what .. more

I’m not Wang - they say - we will find out. Now, just now, I twisted my leg - during the day I didn’t see a hole under my leg ..... But here everything is much more complicated and, unfortunately, sadder.

[bunny]

a variometer measures vertical speed, not height

[Al1977]

Quote: Bunny

a variometer measures vertical speed, not height

Yes, the altimeter, of course, had in mind.

[Al1977]

Quote: Bunny

a variometer measures vertical speed, not height

Yes, the altimeter, of course, had in mind.

[clidon]

Altimeter is how it can help when flying at low altitudes. especially if there are any hills. It's all in the eye.

[Voha_krim]

In Afghanistan, the experimental Ka-50s showed a significant advantage over the Mi-24. But ... Of course, the Mi-28 is more perfect than the Mi-24, but in a hot climate there is no better biaxial helicopter, in these conditions the rate of climb is higher than with the classical scheme. Maybe this was the cause of death? I hope the Ministry of Defense will draw conclusions.
Sorry for the boys. I grieve. Condolences to the family. It is a pity that it happened.

[pv1005]

Quote: Voha_krim

but in a hot climate there’s no better biaxial helicopter,

Maybe it’s all the same coaxial, is it when the blades rotate towards each other?

[marshes]

Quote: pv1005

Maybe it’s all the same coaxial, is it when the blades rotate towards each other?

I’ll tell you right away about the mountains. The former PV military transport Mi 8/17, small and nimble like the EU-145.
And as a combat use, it’s the Su-25 itself, possibly super Tukano. The main thing is to quickly exit from under the fire and the altitude of flights. Helicopters have a static and dynamic ceiling for use.
PV-FORCE!

[Voha_krim]

Quote: pv1005

Maybe all the same coaxial

Yeah! Laughed! I accept criticism.

[Voyager]

Fact number once: In recent years, in the news and blogs of pilots, close associates and just people in the subject, you could hear that we really like to blame the pilots. It is convenient, after all.
Fact number two: the helicopter is pretty emergency. Some have already almost out of the blue fell.
Fact number three: Hasty conclusion. A day has not passed, the most probable version has already been voiced, which still cannot be touched, unfortunately the pilots died.

Hack and predictor Aviator - I do not like all this. Something is wrong with this turntable, I'd rather be wrong.

[Voyager]

Add thoughts out loud. Even if the malfunction of technology or the malfunction + the human factor is to blame, there is another point - climatic conditions. As far as I remember, Mi-24 and other veteran helicopters participating in Syria were initially adapted to climatic conditions. Perhaps the cause of the fall of the Mi-28 could be this, and not an error or malfunction, but ... questions arise.
Why is the equipment so pampered when our design bureau was already in the habit of producing such military equipment that, unlike the western one, it worked reliably in rain and snow and in heat and under water? If we lose this wonderful property, this is not good.
Let me remind you that this is just a discussion.
The second question. If the pilots make a mistake, what is the Mi-28’s control complexity, if two professionals couldn’t cope with it? It seems that piloting the most difficult to control the Ka-50 alone is even easier, because I won’t believe that green or unverified and untrained crews were sent to Syria from the Mi-28. Of course, anything can happen, and you won’t get the guys back, it would seem what it is .. yes, there are too many similarities and questions. And in order to avoid repetitions, something needs to be done with this.

[your1970]

1) Mi-24 is not specially prepared in any way, the ROMs are on, the trimmers on the blades if they just bend
2) the technique is not pampered - just the technique becomes harder and harder, and any complication leads to failures
3) commander of 16 years in service (2000gv), apparently a major / lieutenant colonel, it’s difficult to pilot any technique - especially at night, the human eye is very accurate, but at night ...

[11 black]

Quote: Muvka

And what errors can be? I looked at the map, like mountains are not there, trees too. It looks like plowed fields. And of course it’s a pity.

They fly to the PMV at the speed of 100-150 km / h - and this one also flew at night ... although there seems to be a special system for night flights on the PMV - in general, there’s nothing to guess, soon the boxes will be decrypted.
Still lucky, if I may say so, that I didn’t fall to the monkeys, there are so many things in Mi-28, but to take at least a system of protection against stingers, the CIA would open champagne.
Pilots sorry.

[Nyrobsky]

Quote: Muvka

And what errors can be? I looked at the map, like mountains are not there, trees too. It looks like plowed fields. And of course it’s a pity.

Yes very sorry(((
I don’t know, but when the small aircraft was still alive and the "maize" (AN-2) went like trams on schedule to the most abandoned villages of the Urals, it often happened during the flight, the plane fell into an air hole so that all the insides rose to the throat. I don’t know how to connect this with physics or meteorology, but the feeling of falling is real. And here, in the semi-desert area, when the daytime is far beyond +30, and at night - 1, -2, these temperature drops may well form conditions when the air can become discharged so much that it is impossible to rely on it ........ I'm not a physicist, it just seems to me that in the absence of fire or natural obstacles, such as mountains or power lines, this can somehow be related.

[avia1991]

Quote: Nyrobsky

How to connect it with physics or meteorology I do not know

A change in lift due to a change in the direction of the wind, for example (oncoming - increases P / C, along or lateral - decreases), or more rarefied air entering the stream. The smaller the aircraft, the brighter these feelings appear.
For the same reason, the lifting force is higher at night - due to more dense air at low temperatures, so this is unlikely to affect. But the failure of the equipment on the Mi-28, unfortunately, is a regular phenomenon, and in this case, I think it was the same: critical failure of critical equipment. It's just that it's not politically correct to denigrate the "pride of Rosvertol" - that's why it's easier to blame the accident on the pilots: they, poor fellows, will no longer be able to justify themselves ..
PS purely mine assumption: a sudden failure of "night vision" devices when flying in a PMV over an unfamiliar area. You won't be able to instantly switch to instrument control - and any obstacle on the way will become a deadly trap.

[Spartanez300]

Judging by the characteristics of the helicopter, it can perform tasks at any time of the day and in any weather conditions this is the first, the second I don’t think that unprepared pilots were sent to Syria, and the third means there is one or more factors of the crash that occurred, most likely this is due to some kind of malfunction . Eternal memory to pilots.

[12qwaszx]

Why they are silent about black boxes, there will be specific information.

[Muvka]

Quote: 12qwaszx

Why they are silent about black boxes, there will be specific information.

Do not be silent. Here is a clipping of news from soap ru, which is 3-4 hours earlier than here: “On Tuesday, at the crash site of the Russian Mi-28N in the Homs region, speech and parametric recorders were found. Their condition allows you to extract the information contained in them. Mi-28N “black boxes” were sent to Moscow, ”the source said.

[rubidiy]

Something I do not like about the haste of these conclusions.

[Kibl]

"Night Hunter" crashed at night, how strange it is ... My condolences to the families of the pilots.

[Engineer]

A common vicious practice: if the pilots die, then the notorious human factor becomes the cause.

[lelikas]

Quote: Engineer

A common vicious practice: if the pilots die, then the notorious human factor becomes the cause.

What is wrong in it? Technique, just, unlike people, is rarely mistaken.
On past accidents - there was a failure of equipment - they said so, but here - preliminary results .

[avia1991]

Quote: lelikas

Technique, just, unlike people, is rarely mistaken

It’s in vain that you so confidently assert: the equipment now has a time between failures many times lower than during the Union: the quality control of parts and devices is not always organized at the proper level, and there are a lot of allies at the aircraft plants!
I sin more on the failure of night piloting devices. Although this is only an assumption, of course ..

[vnedra]

Sorry for the guys ...

[Valdai]

Kooooooo. Those. 16 years is not enough to master piloting in the context of a special operation, the results of which are watched by the whole world and part of which is intensively rubbing their hands when the aerospace forces fail. Ie - this is an ideal helicopter, and, as there, "it was not in the bobbin" (c). IMHO, anyone will be accused, if only the contracts are not disrupted. Remembering a case a year ago with a car of the same type

[krops777]

Another zhurnalyugsky stuffing with nothing than unsupported information.

[vobels]

We must wait for the final results of the investigation. And so blame everything on the pilots - not a thing. Sorry guys.

[Siberia 9444]

Or maybe the motors failed. Manufacturer then you know who!

[Jrvin]

What both at a time? in a combat helicopter? well, not really ...

[Siberia 9444]

A pinwheel falls with an experienced pilot without breakdowns, just picked up and dropped this is not real.

[avia1991]

Quote: Jrvin

unreal...

Really. Water in kerosene, for example. Turbine / compressor blade breakage. As well as the failure of the swashplate, the defect in the manufacture of the turbine shaft, which led to its destruction - etc. There are many reasons for this, and any one may turn out to be real .. what to guess - we are waiting for what they will say after the investigation.

[Jrvin]

Well, suppose this happened, why didn't you jump?

[avia1991]

Quote: Jrvin

why didn't you jump?

How do you imagine that? At PMV? This is 50 meters high, at best - and even 15-20! Jump to health ..
Even to assess the situation, opening the door, leaving the cab - well, a couple of seconds is definitely needed! Jump after a collision with the ground. Catapults on the Mi-28m, it seems, are not provided ..

[senima56]

And you do not notice such "cliches" that if the pilots survived (thank God) then the reason is "technical failure", but if the pilots died, "piloting error" (read, "human factor"). The dead are the easiest to shove off! Sorry guys. Kingdom of heaven to you.

[Jrvin]

If there are "corpses" then it is easier to blame them ... the law. I’m sitting and thinking, there are two extra-class pilots sitting in the cockpit, and the chance that they blunted it so easily is just minimal ... but what if they blunted what they didn’t jump? Modern systems allow you to escape even "jumping" from the ground. I DO NOT believe in the human factor, I do not believe !!!

[Fregate]

There is one pilot, as it sounds strange. The control on the Mi-24 is duplicated, on the 28th there is no (!), Only recently appeared UB (combat training) with duplicate control. And it seems they are planning to release military units with duplicate control, maybe they have already begun, but no more than a year ago.

[your1970]

"even" jumping "from the ground." - why should the helicopter pilots jump from the "ground"? You didn’t beguile them with the planes for an hour? You opened the door and you were on the ground

[Jrvin]

You have beguiled, and I’m saying how the bailout system works, which allows in case of an emergency even on the ground to work without consequences for the pilots.

[jPilot]

Buddy beguiled you, ejection seats are installed on the Ka-50 and Ka-52. On the Mi-28, this equipment is not installed, there is a type of passive system "pamir-10m" energy-absorbing seats. But the problem is that it has to rescue the crew during a vertical fall, which is practically impossible in real conditions.

[your1970]

You messed up by writing from the "ground" (even on the ground) - in airplanes - yes, you can and should sometimes eject from the surface of the earth, helicopters have enough ordinary doors in order to jump out through them while on the ground.

[non-placeholder]

EEE. the boxes were just taken for decryption, and there are already results of the investigation. Apparently one of the "shoulder straps" blurted out about the probabilities, and the zhurnalyugi carried it down the wind.
And then "what year of release pilots", where infa what year of release is the car? The new device has not been flown, completely unexplored ...
Understandably, the warriors can quiet up a lot, but why then do these instant stuffing balances - the pilots have families. They simply would have kept silent, given medals, erected monuments.

[Cyril7377]

"The design features ensure high survivability of the helicopter. The survival of the crew during emergency landings at vertical speeds up to 12 m / s is ensured by the use of a passive protection system with energy-absorbing structural elements (chassis, seats, fuselage elements)." Why didn't it work?

[Fregate]

well, if he falls on the chassis, but if he stuck his nose? We don’t know.

[made13]

Be that as it may, the main version - the error of the pilots will not change. This is beneficial to everyone - both the army and equipment manufacturers. There is no demand from the dead.

[non-placeholder]

There is demand; widows and children are not entitled to pensions and benefits.
In this case, it was necessary to blame the pilots on the air darts in Ryazan, they deliberately went to supercritical regimes.
http://www.kybinka.info/news/accidents/item/3756-vertolet-mi-28n-nochnoy-ohotnik
-razbilsya-na-shou-aviadarts.html

[iouris]

The risk is inevitable when flying. However, it is necessary to separate the "human factor" and "personal factor". Perhaps the sense of danger has dulled. After completing a certain number of flights, pilots need rest in a dispensary. By the way, there are many places nearby for organizing recreation in order to relieve psychological stress.

[NordUral]

Guys are sorry, whatever.

[Wildfox]

The guys are very sorry. Condolences to the family.
On the Mi-28n theme, mine is very unfortunate, Even if the accident occurred due to the fault of the pilots, this does not remove the questions from the designers. Attack target which
will be!!! it is very painful to "snap" the harder the patrol at night, the more
if you have to attack at night. Cramming electronics and glasses is not enough, the aircraft should be just super reliable and forgiving minor mistakes, otherwise it will become a flying coffin. Accidents are everywhere but from the 28th they are too common and these are not childhood diseases, my opinion. I really hope that I'm wrong

[MACCABI-TLV]

Why post "previews"? Finish the full investigation, then post everything that you could establish during the investigation. Suddenly, the "main" (preliminary) version was wrong ... the dead (RIP) pilots probably have families, and they want to know exactly what happened to their loved ones.

[marshes]

Quote: MACCABI-TLV

Why post "previews"?

What would someone "get cold" just below the back.
In fact, the loss of a combat vehicle in an armed conflict with export potential does not pass without a trace.
All eyes ...

[Alpha]

The flight took place at night in almost complete darkness over a low-orientation terrain. Pilots piloted a combat vehicle with night vision goggles. According to preliminary data, the dead pilots were graduates of the Syzran VVAUL. This is commander Andrei Okladnikov of the year 2000 and navigator Viktor Pankov of the year 2011. The helicopter crew, before a business trip to Syria, served in a 487 separate helicopter regiment in Budennovsk, Stavropol Territory.

[Alpha]

It seems to me that it is unfair to classify this night helicopter crash as a pilot error. And blame the pilot for her.
It would be necessary to introduce some new gradation, such as flying in especially dangerous conditions.
In the war. So there was a need to fly at night at an extremely low altitude in an area with weak landmarks. Knowingly take risks.

[clidon]

But what about the favorite expression here:
"Does any accident have a first and last name?"
If the helicopter was not exposed to fire, that is either the fault of the pilots, or the technology, or those who taught and trained the pilots, or those who designed the equipment. The rest of the lyrics: "No one is to blame! The weather and nature are like this."

[Foofighter]

But in no way, since someone is bad with conspiracy, he just "forgot" about it - another technique or those who were for him.
Are there any other options...

[voliador]

The recorders only sent, and the verdict has already been issued! Based on what, interesting?

[AlexG83]

Maybe just because they visited the crash site? At what speed did he collide with the ground? If it’s small, then the whole estate has remained, and you can see if there are holes from MANPADS or anti-aircraft guns, etc. Etot is not a plane that wedges into the ground at a speed of 700-800km / h, and everything shatters into atoms.

[tomatokin]

Sorry for the guys ... Eternal memory!