Military Review

Express to Damascus

54
Auxiliary fleet of the Russian Navy needs urgent replenishment


The first phase of the Russian operation in Syria, the beginning of which should be considered 30 September 2015, and the end 14 March 2016, in addition to the many positive moments for the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation - a fundamental change in the situation on the front lines in the SAR, testing the latest weapons systems, purchasing invaluable combat experience - and revealed problems. The most obvious of these is the organization of logistics support for both our air group and the Syrian government army. It was carried out by air bridge and sea.

Little is known about the first. According to the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation, during the first phase of the operation, military transport aviation performed a total of about 640 sorties. Loaded at the Chkalovsky airfield near Moscow and the airbase in Mozdok. The route passed over the waters of the Caspian Sea, the territory of Iran and Iraq with the final destination "Hmeimim" in the Syrian province of Latakia.

Syrian road of life


Information about the sea route more. Russian ships and support ships that participated in the operation, which received the name “Syrian Express” in the Western press, were on their way from Novorossiysk or Sevastopol to Tartus, where the Russian Navy’s material and technical supply point is located, following the Black Sea straits under the watchful eyes of the Turkish media, printed and electronic.

From publications it can be argued that the “express” started about a year after the onset of the internal Syrian confrontation. His organization was the result of the decision of the military-political leadership of Russia to do everything possible to prevent a repetition of the Libyan tragedy, the main events of which were played out in 2011. Then the absence of a similar decision or a delay in its adoption eventually led to the death of Jamahiriya leader Muammar Gaddafi. Libya plunged into chaos, to get out of which can not yet.

Initially, in the absence of vessels destroyed in the previous two decades, the auxiliary fleet The Russian Navy's role as workhorses in the Syrian Express was assigned to the large landing ships (BDK) of the three fleets - the Black Sea, Baltic and Northern. They began to ply between Tartus and mainly Novorossiysk, delivering ammunition for the Syrian army, which fought fierce battles with the Islamic State, which was banned in Russia, affiliated with Al-Qaida, the Jabhat al-Nusra group, other jihadi organizations opposition wing.

Shipments of weapons and military equipment, either purchased through military-technical cooperation, or transferred to the Syrian government, were carried out by sea: it is clear that Assad has few funds to pay for such imports.

We can safely say that Damascus, whose armed forces split along religious lines (the most capable were the formations and units whose recruitment came mainly from the Alawites), stood against the jihadist international largely due to ammunition and weapons and military equipment from Russia.

Milestones


The initial legend and cover for the Syrian Express operation provided a permanent operational connection of the Russian Navy in the Mediterranean, deployed there at the beginning of 2013. It consisted of one or two or even more ships of the first rank, one reconnaissance, several BDK, support ships.

Express to DamascusIn the "Syrian Express" should be divided into three stages. At the first (from about December 2012 to the end of 2014), the BDK was given the task of providing the Syrian army and its allies with everything necessary. 30 – 45 exits to the Mediterranean Sea in Tartus every year.

The 2014, which preceded the entry of the Russian air group into Syria, was illustrative. According to the available records, during the year 10 BDK from three Russian fleets completed at least 45 movements along the Novorossiysk-Tartus route. Kaliningrad (BF) - at least 10 flights, Novocherkassk (BSF) - 9, and Yamal (BSF) - 8 became some kind of champions. The number of exits of one or another BDK to the route Novorossiysk - Tartus - Novorossiysk, apparently, was determined primarily by the state of their nodes and mechanisms.

The second stage of the "express" began somewhere in August of the 2015, immediately after the adoption of a fundamental decision on the introduction of the Russian air group into Syria. The task was to provide it and the attached units with everything necessary, taking into account further combat use. About the approximate time of the beginning of the stage says statistics. If from January 1 to September 1 2015 of the 9, the BDK of three Russian fleets carried out 38 trips to the Mediterranean Sea, over the next four months - at least 42. The intensity has more than doubled. In addition, in September-December last year, at least four vessels of the auxiliary fleet of the Russian Navy connected to the Syrian Express in connection with the increased traffic volumes. Newbies attracted attention.

To the large sea dry cargo transport (BMST) Yauza of the 550 project, there were no special questions - it had previously been part of the auxiliary fleet of the Northern Fleet. But its sending to the Mediterranean caused bewilderment: what, there is nothing more? Indeed, prior to the “Syrian Express”, the BMST solved the most important task of providing all the necessary nuclear test sites on Novaya Zemlya.

The old woman "Yauza" (1974, built) after overhaul and return to service at the beginning of the 2015-th did not let us down. In September - December, she made at least four flights to Tartus.

But a lot of questions arose in connection with other newcomers to the Syrian Express. At the end of 2015, these were the vessels of the auxiliary fleet of the Russian Navy "Vologda-50", "Dvinitsa-50" and "Kyzyl-60".

Interfax-AVN news agency introduced a certain clarity in connection with their sudden appearance under the flag of the Russian Navy. October 15 2015, it reported that due to the increase in the intensity of military traffic from Russia to Syria in the auxiliary fleet mobilized to 10 civilian dry cargo, including several ships, previously sailed under foreign flags.

Already in 2016, the new participants of the “express” named above added “Alexander Tkachenko” and “Kazan-60”. The concept of “mobilization” fits completely with the first of them - previously it was a ferry on the Crimean ferry. For the rest of the ships, having in the title of the figures "50" or "60", not very.

According to one version, all of them previously belonged to Turkish shipowners and were acquired by the Russian Navy on an emergency basis even before the incident with the destruction of the Russian Su-24 bomber. It is clear that they were not bought from a good life - it was necessary to ensure the combat work of the Russian air group in the absence of ships of this class in the auxiliary fleet.

For its part, the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation decided to clarify below its dignity history the appearance on Vologda, Dvinitsa and Kyzyl of Russian flags. Questions remained unanswered: under what conditions were transactions concluded with the Turkish side, in what condition were the courts accepted?

As one of the sailors noted in social networks, each way out to the sea, taking into account the deplorable technical condition, is a game of Russian roulette, especially considering their cargo.

Without hackneyed horses

It can be considered that the second stage of the “Syrian Express” ended on March 14, when the decision was made to reduce the Russian air group in Syria. By that day, at least an 24 flight was performed during the operation from the beginning of the year. 17 of them falls on the BDK, the rest - on beginners.

According to the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation, from 30 of September 2015 of the year to 14 of March of 2016, 80 of flights for cargo delivery by sea to Tartus was made. This roughly corresponds to the unofficial data given in this article.

Since March 14, the third stage of the Syrian Express began to run, during which the tasks of providing a roughly half of the Russian air group, as well as combat operations of the Syrian army, will have to be solved. Nevertheless, it is already possible to sum up some intermediate results of the operation and make separate predictions.

Firstly, the Russian Navy in the near future risks being left without a BDK, which took over the transportation of most of the military cargo to Syria. They have largely developed their lifespan and need urgent repairs.

Secondly, it can be expected that in the near future vessels of the auxiliary fleet of the Navy in connection with the described situation will take on all large volumes of traffic, freeing BDK from these functions.

Thirdly, it seems that, to put it mildly, in a critical situation as regards the presence of dry cargo ships in the auxiliary fleet of the Russian Navy, it would be logical to assume that the main command would attend to their acquisition, and not from Turkish sources. And here is the most amazing thing: there it was not there! As explained to the “Military-Industrial Courier” in the United Shipbuilding Corporation, so far no requests have been received from the Navy Commander-in-Chief in connection with possible orders for the construction of new transports ... And if tomorrow is a war?

For information: “Vologda-50” in the past Turkish life was called Dadali, “Kyzyl-60” - Smyrna, “Dvinitsa-50” - Alican Deval.
Author:
Originator:
http://vpk-news.ru/articles/30079
54 comments
Information
Dear reader, to leave comments on the publication, you must sign in.
  1. itr
    itr April 9 2016 07: 07
    -3
    if tomorrow the war mobilizes the civilian fleet mister author! absolutely free
    1. Revolver
      Revolver April 9 2016 07: 49
      +24
      Quote: itr
      if tomorrow war mobilize civilian fleet mister author!

      And what, is that available? Civilian vessels have long been privatized and taken away under the flags of all sorts of Liberia, Panama, and other Bahamas, where taxes are lower and there are practically no requirements for the technical condition and protection of crew rights.
      Quote: itr
      for free
      Given the new nationality of the courts, what you are proposing will, quite rightly, be described as piracy.
      You somehow forgot that the USSR has been almost gone for almost a quarter century. Alas... request
      1. itr
        itr April 9 2016 08: 10
        -2
        Nagan and what do you offer ?????? to solve this problem, the return of ships to their homeland ???? USSR collapsed 25 years ago, ships rotted for the most part .. Build new ????? why should the state do this ?????? and buy them and that they would stand and wait for the war. You are sorry, but at least it’s strange
        I want to hear your offer I am very interested
        1. Sharapov
          Sharapov April 9 2016 08: 40
          +6
          Actually, an article about the state (strategic) approach to the armament of the Navy. I mean that it is useless to buy junk from the Turks (it is not yet known for what money) - you need to load your production facilities with a state order for the construction of dry cargo vessels - modern and relatively inexpensive (taking into account the ruble exchange rate). Belching of "stool-sawing" (I mean the former minister) approaches to the construction of the Armed Forces will have an impact for a long time.
          Another question is that 5 years ago there was no such huge need for naval transportation. But there is no need - the means of realization disappear (rot, sell out).
          1. itr
            itr April 9 2016 09: 06
            -1
            Sharapov, look at how the St. Petersburg shipyard is building. This is a nightmare. Not a single ship was delivered on time, but right now there are no engines.
            and why should the state spend taxpayer money on the merchant fleet ?????
            I think we need a different approach
            1. creak
              creak April 9 2016 11: 00
              +17
              Quote: itr
              why should the state spend taxpayer money on the merchant fleet ?????


              It seems you do not see the difference between conventional merchant ships and auxiliary ones, the latter are part of the Navy, such as weapons and supply transports ...
              Here they are sorely lacking, as are the BDKs working for wear and to the limit of their capabilities ...
              And the cries of those who claimed that we do not need Mistral and for hell have calmed down - we ourselves will build better and faster (we ourselves with a mustache) ...
              How long have we been building, for example, the long-suffering "Ivan Gren" (at least 10 years old) but still has not entered service ...
              The USSR, for example, did not hesitate to order ships from a court abroad, even in Germany and Italy before the war, and didn’t lose their ideological virginity (they were guided by common sense, and not empty ambitions) ...
              As Deng Xiaoping put it, no matter what color the cat would just catch mice ...
              1. Saratoga833
                Saratoga833 April 9 2016 19: 06
                +3
                Quote: ranger
                The USSR, for example, did not hesitate to order ships from a court abroad

                Already burned on the Mistrals! Got it all over the face! Are you proposing to step on the same rake again? Practice shows that you need to build your own ships and not look into the mouth of Uncle Oland or someone else! Now the new commander of the fleet. Let's see if he does anything useful!
                1. UNFAMILIAR
                  UNFAMILIAR April 9 2016 20: 54
                  0
                  Quote: Saratoga833
                  Already burned on the Mistrals! Got it all over the face! Are you proposing to step on the same rake again?

                  At the UDC of the Mistral type, the shipbuilders of the Baltic Shipyard gained invaluable experience in delivery on time, with full "deflection" for the customer, + purchased some equipment for them.
            2. UNFAMILIAR
              UNFAMILIAR April 9 2016 11: 40
              +5
              Quote: itr
              Sharapov, look at how the St. Petersburg shipyard is building. This is a nightmare. Not a single ship was delivered on time, but right now there are no engines.

              T.N. do you mean "St. Petersburg shipyard" do you mean shipyards and North-West of St. Petersburg and the Leningrad region? So these enterprises are very different, both in terms of owners and in terms of delivery and complexity of orders, the main long-term construction projects are either military ones or those related to the nuclear fleet (of those that have not been commissioned, I know only Elbrus at Severnaya Verf, the former shipyard named after Zhdanov) at the same time 2000s, 70000t tankers Kirill Lavrov and Mikhail Ulyanov were delivered to Sovcomflot on time - the largest vessels built in Russia, the Pella shipyard works very rhythmically and 0th and 10th, Vybsky SZ built a platform "sea launch" and the platform of the Norwegian part of the missile defense system recourseand everything is on time, not to mention diesel icebreakers. Yes, and engines for civilian ships are still being sold to us, and the St. Petersburg plant "Zvezda" provides engines, for example, landing boats "Dugong".
            3. lelikas
              lelikas April 9 2016 16: 37
              +3
              Quote: itr
              Sharapov, look at how the St. Petersburg shipyard is building. This is a nightmare. Not a single ship was delivered on time, but right now there are no engines.

              Not everything depends on them, yesterday, I was resting culturally with a friend - half the boxes - there is simply no equipment, like something comes in - they work shockingly, then everything freezes.
              Import substitution - instead of Ukrainian cables - switched to Finnish - for ours - isolation is crumbling. On the auxiliary - almost all the equipment is worth Vyartsilya, MTU, Liebher.
          2. Captain45
            Captain45 April 9 2016 13: 00
            +5
            Quote: Sharapov
            you need to load your production capacity with a state order for the construction of dry cargo vessels - modern and relatively inexpensive (taking into account the ruble exchange rate).

            As a child, I had a set of 2 series of 15 postcards "USSR Merchant Fleet", and so, reading the description of ships on the reverse side of the postcard, I was surprised to learn that all dry cargo ships, bulk carriers, ro-ro ships and passenger ships were built on shipyards of the GDR, Poland, Finland. Domestic buildings were mainly nuclear icebreakers and hydrofoil ships, and even seiners and ships serving space. Here is such cooperation within the CMEA framework. So in good times, under the USSR, dry cargo ships of the domestic There were practically no buildings in the civilian fleet, and now, when shipyards have orders mainly for military products, there will be no quick renewal of the civilian fleet. Obviously, you will have to purchase, but then there are sanctions. Or "Boarding!" Under "Jolly Roger" laughing
        2. ava09
          ava09 April 9 2016 15: 43
          +5
          The USSR did not "collapse", it was destroyed contrary to the Law by external and, most importantly, internal enemies. It's time to learn this in 25 years. If you do not mind, I will express my opinion on your question: (C) Build new ones ????? why should the state do this ?????? (C)
          First of all, it's time to end with "capitalism" in Russia. It was he who led to the collapse of not only shipbuilding and the fleet, both military and civil. This situation is observed in all spheres of state building, except for stuffing one's own pockets. A vicious System does not give rise to any schemes, except for vicious ones. Moreover, even the West has already become convinced of the inevitable collapse of capitalism and has begun to dismantle it. We need a State Planned Economy! And the fact that she was deceived, perverted and slandered by bureaucrats, starting with the Trotskyist Khrushch, should not be taken into account. The main thing is to take into account the mistakes of the authorities and prevent the next emergence of bureaucracy as a class, otherwise it will ruin any most perfect and correct model. Only with the people's system of government and the national economy can these problems be solved.
        3. goblin xnumx
          goblin xnumx April 10 2016 23: 51
          0
          it’s also strange for me, there’s no war, but new tanks and planes are building both air defense and submarines, strange people, yes? - and in general, if there is no war, why do we need an army? - let the potatoes plant, and then quickly - once the squad gathered :) I thought the current deer in HERE are sitting ...
        4. Ustinov 055 055
          Ustinov 055 055 April 19 2016 09: 49
          0
          With your reasoning, war awaits and ALL submarines of the 3rd Fleet of the country and the Army need to dissolve them too.
        5. Ustinov 055 055
          Ustinov 055 055 April 19 2016 09: 49
          0
          With your reasoning, war awaits and ALL submarines of the 3rd Fleet of the country and the Army need to dissolve them too.
  2. Volga Cossack
    Volga Cossack April 9 2016 07: 16
    +2
    Quote: itr
    if tomorrow the war mobilizes the civilian fleet mister author! absolutely free
    this is also true that special-purpose vessels, in particular supply vehicles, are needed.
    1. itr
      itr April 9 2016 07: 47
      -2
      I agree with you, but in my opinion, besides the army, you still need money where to invest in the country
      suffer sailors without dry cargo ship so five more years
      1. 97110
        97110 April 9 2016 15: 47
        +4
        Quote: itr
        suffer sailors without dry cargo ship so five more years

        For the "sailors" and the Navy, there are different sources of financing for new shipbuilding. They write to you in plain text that there is no capacity for new civil shipbuilding in Russia. "Sailors" for a sweet soul will be built in Korea, China, in the same Turkey, they will be assigned to Phnom Penny in Cambodia, they will be taken on bareboat by a Russian company (for the flag). It will be cheaper from all sides. And that there are no opportunities for mobilization anywhere, that's why capitalism was built in the country. For this very mobilization, we will talk about the second Register until the President barks. Then the Sovereign Duma will leave the buggers alone and take care of the Russian fleet. Here the St. Petersburg deputies hold a flag in their hands.
  3. 72jora72
    72jora72 April 9 2016 07: 28
    +2
    And the fleet needs transport, and mine clearance ships and new BDKs ......... yes, a lot of things are needed
    PS As if this were not so, but the process began, and the fleet began to receive at least some ships.
  4. Matsuda Kabushiki
    Matsuda Kabushiki April 9 2016 07: 33
    0
    Just read: http: //www.sdelanounas.ru/blogs/76336/
    1. donavi49
      donavi49 April 9 2016 09: 13
      +3
      These are other ships. They should not and are not intended for long-distance transitions (further arsenal-base - base-base within the same area). There is a main tap. VTR-79 in the Caspian is now engaged in transportation from the arsenal and loading of calibers, for example. He even has a move of less than 10 nodes full wink

      If we already go to transports - then Elbrus and co, but there is a hard ice class, and the container carrying capacity is much less than a merchant.
      1. igor.borov775
        igor.borov775 April 9 2016 19: 52
        +1
        Hi!! Yes, they completely forgot and there were very interesting vessels. The cargo of the delivery vessel was being carried by itself. I went to the shore of the barge into the water and carried containers. It was a pity they were the first to sell it. One seems to be still wandering in Vietnam.
  5. Mountain shooter
    Mountain shooter April 9 2016 08: 29
    +9
    And if war is tomorrow, then all the ships that are needed will be requisitioned in favor of the state and used for military transport. And they will remember about piracy after the victory, and the winners will forgive themselves everything, but the vanquished will not care ...
    1. 97110
      97110 April 9 2016 15: 51
      +2
      Quote: Mountain Shooter
      And if tomorrow is war
      such as in Syria, what - steamers requisition? And where is the newly-built capitalism that we are all so proud of? Urgently remodel the world war?
      1. ava09
        ava09 April 10 2016 10: 55
        0
        Quote: 97110
        Quote: Mountain Shooter
        And if tomorrow is war
        such as in Syria, what - steamers requisition? And where is the newly-built capitalism that we are all so proud of? Urgently remodel the world war?

        To shove that "freshly built capitalism, which we are all so proud of", of the "who is so proud" ...
        1. 97110
          97110 April 10 2016 12: 36
          0
          Quote: ava09
          to those "who are so proud" ..

          Are you not a patriot? It's a joke, I don't want to offend. The whole post about "pride", as you know, is one sarcasm.
  6. Scharnhorst
    Scharnhorst April 9 2016 08: 53
    +2
    The Syrian operation of the Russian Aerospace Forces (and one should not forget the transport blockade of Crimea) showed the obvious weakness of the transport group of seven Soviet-era BDKs on the Russian Black Sea Fleet. The question of the repair and modernization of Polish-built ships pr 775 has already been raised. What do the experts think about the proposal to launch the Ivan Gren-type large landing craft in Kerch?
    1. donavi49
      donavi49 April 9 2016 09: 34
      +9
      Grena will no longer be - contracts for new ones for sure. Yes, and the ship of ideology 70's - designed as a quick replacement for Tapir 90-m, in 2015 outdated morally and physically.

      For example, the Wishlist, on which they oriented - LST Round Table.

      The ship took the landing battalion, 12 tanks / 30 BMP / 26 containers in the hold and 20 containers on the deck (or 25 trucks).

      He had a regular aft platform for receiving helicopters and an additional deck (if there were no goods). The British converted it even into an auxiliary aircraft carrier, launching from the deck of the Harrier during the 82 war.

      However, ships were built from 62 to 68 years. The only living people are in the Brazilian Navy (2 units) and they are looking for a replacement for them (they even looked at the Mistrals).


      However, in any case, the Gulf is past, there are building 2 large tankers for the Navy, rescue ships, and also preparing for new bookmarks not BDK. No, you can lay a star destroyer at any shipyard, but the question is only the result (see the same NEA with the Perfect). Until the Gulf pulls it.

      Yes, and the question of need. To carry on the landing ships supply is the norm, as the Americans do. But with a small amendment - they carry when it is locked, one-time shares. And then special supply vessels enter the business - LSL, transports, logistics support vessels, etc.

      If the task is to organize the supply of the allies, but as a bonus to carry out the transportation of ROE orders without chartering other people's ships, but using your own, then it is more reasonable to build transports, LSL and logistics support vessels, and not the BDK. They will be cheaper and the flight efficiency will be much greater. The same Tkachenko by itself 2 BDK replaces for example.
      1. Volga Cossack
        Volga Cossack April 9 2016 22: 44
        0
        are you a series of sirs mean ???? sir gelaged and others like him ???? so they were originally built by warships and private for rent .......... here is a question for the project ......
      2. Volga Cossack
        Volga Cossack April 9 2016 22: 44
        0
        are you a series of sirs mean ???? sir gelaged and others like him ???? so they were originally built by warships and private for rent .......... here is a question for the project ......
  7. Pvi1206
    Pvi1206 April 9 2016 09: 02
    +5
    The sad situation is described in the article.
    Unfortunately, the same situation is in many sectors of the national economy.
    And there is no one to blame.
    For over 15 years, power has been sawing the branch on which Russia sits ...
    1. Serg65
      Serg65 April 9 2016 11: 02
      +10
      Quote: Pvi1206
      And there is no one to blame.

      By no means, the blame can always be placed on someone else. In Soviet times, such transportations were carried out by the ships of the MMF of the USSR, the Navy of the USSR practically HAD NO transport for such operations. If memory serves, in the mid-80s, the sea transport "Kolkhida" pr.567 appeared at the KChF, the only one of its kind in the Navy. In 1979, a unique gas turbine ship "Kapitan Smirnov" pr.1609 was launched; its uniqueness was in its dual purpose. A total of 4 such Ro-Ro-ships were built, by the way the anti-submarine "Halzan" pr.10200 was planned on the basis of pr.1609. After the collapse of the USSR, Ukraine got all 4 Ro -ers, three of them were cut into scrap by the Indians, and the fate of the fourth is very interesting. GT / v "Vladimir Vaslyaev" joined the ranks of the US Naval Shipping Command. Who, in your opinion, is to blame for the collapse of the USSR and the subsequent sale of the MMF ships? Is Putin and his team? By the time of Putin's arrival, both the civilian fleet and the military were a pitiful sight.
      Quote: Pvi1206
      For over 15 years, power has been sawing the branch on which Russia sits ...

      Putin has been in power for more than 15 years, and he still cannot straighten out what his predecessors have done, although you must admit that there are shifts and not bad shifts hi
      1. Kassik
        Kassik April 9 2016 14: 30
        0
        http://topwar.ru/18367-sovetskiy-korabl-v-sostave-sil-bystrogo-reagirovaniya-vms
        -ssha.html
      2. pacific
        pacific April 10 2016 02: 55
        +1
        Serg65, you also forgot the complex supply ship "Berezina"
        From Wikipedia:
        "Berezina" - integrated supply ship (KKS), the only vessel of project 1833 (code "Pegasus"). It was in service with the Black Sea Fleet of the Russian Navy.

        The sponsored ship of the city of Zelenograd from 1995 to 1997.

        Laid on August 18, 1972 on the slipway of the Shipyard named after 61 Communards in Nikolaev, Ukrainian SSR. April 20, 1975 launched. On December 30, 1977, the USSR Navy entered service.

        KKS "Berezina" (center), aircraft carrier "Kiev" (left), military-industrial complex of project 1134-A (right) and BOD type "Komsomolets Ukrainy" at the rearKKS "Berezina" (center), aircraft carrier "Kiev" (left), military-industrial complex of project 1134-A (right) and BOD type "Komsomolets Ukrainy" at the rear
        1. Serg65
          Serg65 April 10 2016 07: 22
          +1
          Quote: pacific
          You also forgot the complex supply ship "Berezina"

          George, not at all. Berezina was the pride and at the same time the pain of the Navy's UVF. Project 1833 was planned to provide AUG as part of projects 1143.5, 1143.6, 1143.7, 1144, 1155 and 956. You correctly noted that "Berezina" is an INTEGRATED SUPPLY SHIP, but not a transport vessel! This is a universal SHUTTER. hi
  8. Kudrevkn
    Kudrevkn April 9 2016 10: 06
    0
    I agree with the previous speaker - "the heroes are not you"! Maybe China will help with the "suppliers"? Although it seems Rogozin forbade what to build and acquire there, even gas turbines and marine diesel engines? what can you get from him, a philologist?
  9. kig
    kig April 9 2016 10: 58
    +4
    Once the USSR was able not only to provide its own transportation, but also to supply Vietnam with weapons and equipment for a long time. Like it or not, you need a new merchant fleet that will operate under the Russian flag. This is a long business, and besides, shipbuilding, in fact, we never had, but sometime it is necessary to begin.
    1. Serg65
      Serg65 April 9 2016 11: 06
      +4
      Quote: kig
      besides, shipbuilding, in fact, we never had,

      Ayayay !!! To put it mildly, your untruth! Merchant ships, and I must say not bad built all the Soviet SSRZ.
      1. 97110
        97110 April 9 2016 16: 14
        +1
        Quote: Serg65
        Ayayay !!! To put it mildly, your untruth!

        The last two-thousanders for the river were built in 1956. Then I did not see the domestic fleet of domestic construction. "Czech women", "Romanians" - rivermen perceived this as specific types of ships. The "river-sea" vessels: "Sormovskie", "Volgo-Balts" have been built since the 80s by Portugal, Bulgaria, Czechoslovakia, Romania. Passengers - Romania and East Germany. Something was built in the USSR, but more for Siberia and the Far East. So you can refer to a set of postcards with types of steamers, or it is better to agree with the opinion of people close to the topic.
        1. Serg65
          Serg65 April 9 2016 18: 11
          +3
          Quote: 97110
          , but it’s better to agree with the opinions of people who are close to the topic.

          And you mean in the subject? Well, for those who are in the subject ....
          ChSZ, in addition to aircraft carriers, battleships, cruisers, destroyers and submarines, built from 1948 to 1997 the year of 16 tankers, 47 bulk carriers are not counting 471 fishing trawler, 6 special civil vessels and 12 floating docks.
          Shipyard named after 61 The commune from 1980 of the year built 90 ref.crafts for the MMF of the USSR.
          Shipyard "Ocean" since 1952 has built 7 dry cargo ships, 46 refrigerators, 14 timber carriers, 34 ore carriers, 4 oil carriers. "Experts", I have listed the products of 3 shipyards within sight of each other, I hope you can count the products of the rest of the Soviet shipyards yourself? In Odessa they say ... cheat, but cheat beautifully, you will also get a ruble for beauty bully
          1. 97110
            97110 April 9 2016 20: 58
            +1
            Quote: Serg65
            In Odessa they say ... deceive, but deceive is beautiful, you will receive a ruble for beauty

            Take a ruble. On the shelf. In Odessa, on the "Ukraine", our ship was being repaired. Back in the last century. So the guys came back with "impressions". They were called "occupants" there, and the thought was expressed by an advanced representative of a talented nation. Are you able to compare the number of reefers and seiners built in the last century with the needs for dry cargo ships today? And the state of the industry with Soviet times? Or ponty Odessa will bang? I will not argue with your arithmetic, Odessa citizens take a lot of cancer by the stone.
            1. Serg65
              Serg65 April 10 2016 07: 43
              +1
              Quote: 97110
              Take the rupe. On the shelf

              Kolya, but no rudeness, not how? In what year were you on the "Ukraine" and on what?
              Quote: 97110
              ... They were called "occupants" there, and the thought was expressed by an advanced representative of a talented nation.

              In Odessa, there were almost no indigenous inhabitants of Odessa, and those who remained on 2 were burned in May. I hope you do not want to incite hatred between me and Odessa citizens?
              Quote: 97110
              They themselves are able to compare the number of reefs and seiners built in the last century with the needs for bulk carriers today

              My dear, but in Russia there is someone to build? It’s simpler and cheaper to take a ship in a fraction and fly under the Panamanian flag than order a new one. Now google how much of the shipyard remains in the Russian Federation in the dry residue, what are the Baltic, Murmansk, Far Eastern, Sakhalin, Novorossiysk shipping companies doing!
              1. 97110
                97110 April 10 2016 12: 33
                0
                Quote: Serg65
                In what year were you on the "Ukraine" and on what?

                It was in 1995-1997, I don't remember the name of the steamer, we were doing a lot of repairs on the "Ukraine" then. I personally did not stand, but traces of relations with "Ukraine" remained in the family - the branded umbrella "Ferrari" (a gift from colleagues) is in the corner.
                Quote: Serg65
                My dear, but in Russia there is someone to build? It’s simpler and cheaper to take a ship into the frakt and fly under the Panamanian flag than to order a new one.
                This is exactly what I write in my comments, and more than once. True, I like more to remember the flag of Cambodia, under which, in particular, the Volgo-Dons with the names of my first head of the shipping company and the vice-governor on board went.
                1. Serg65
                  Serg65 April 10 2016 19: 40
                  +1
                  Quote: 97110
                  It was in 1995-1997, I don’t remember the name of the steamer, we were doing a lot of repairs at the "Ukraine"

                  My dear friend, or are you confusing something, or are you trying to mislead me ??? Please tell me why you have taken Ukraine in quotation marks?
    2. 97110
      97110 April 9 2016 16: 04
      +2
      Quote: kig
      which will operate under the Russian flag.

      Not in this case. The flag can be anything. At one time he knew that 100% of the shares of OA Sovcomflot, which exists under the Cyprus jurisdiction, are owned by the Russian Federation. There is a concept - a flag of convenience. It is necessary to have leverage over the ship owner so that he fulfills the instructions of the RF Ministry of Defense. And this is possible only through capital. A bourgeois cannot do it for love, only for money.
  10. Kudrevkn
    Kudrevkn April 9 2016 11: 22
    +4
    In part, you are both right and wrong, gentlemen! At the time of the collapse of the USSR, according to the "Sudostroenie" magazine (1991), the total tonnage of the USSR merchant fleet was about 34 million tons. Mostly, of course, foreign construction, tk. our stocks were 90% occupied for military orders! Accordingly, 10% are civilians. but with a stretch of the "Support fleet and support of the USSR Navy" and icebreakers, Arctic supply companies (such as "Ivan Papanin" at the Feodosiysk shipyard), tankers of the "40 years of Victory" type at the Kerch shipyard "Zaliv", etc. With regard to contracts under the "Sudoimport" line, the 1st place is Yugoslavia (3rd place in the world after Japan and South Korea in terms of shipbuilding), 2nd Finland, 3rd Poland, the German Democratic Republic, Bulgaria, Morocco, etc.
  11. ametist415
    ametist415 April 9 2016 14: 31
    0
    The Mistral would be useful, but in general the Russian Navy needs universal amphibious assault ships, helicopter docks, similar to the USS LHD 1 Wasp. (at least 3 hulls, with a displacement of about 40 thousand tons)
  12. exo
    exo April 9 2016 14: 42
    +4
    The problem is really huge. We do not have the opportunity to mobilize both merchant ships, because of their registration with other countries, and civil aviation. Due to the fact that aircraft are almost all leased. Even if they are forcibly abandoned, then there is no spare parts for them, almost immediately put them on the joke.
    And most importantly: earlier the merchant fleet was involved in exercises with the Navy, but now the "traders" have no training.
  13. art337150
    art337150 April 9 2016 19: 43
    0
    The Mistral would have come on time.
  14. exo
    exo April 9 2016 20: 15
    +2
    "Mistral" will not solve the logistics issues. It is rather a ship for the landing of the assault force. Moreover, the first wave. And here, you need a means of supplying the group. The same is true for aviation: heavy equipment is transferred by military transport aviation, infantry-civil aviation, mobilized during the war. This was the case with the Americans in the Gulf, and it was the same with us.
  15. Scharnhorst
    Scharnhorst April 9 2016 20: 32
    +1
    Still, the Mistrals are a revolution for our fleet, and it's good that it didn't happen! But the workhorses of pr. 11711, piece per year, to replace the current large landing craft would be in great demand.
  16. Insde
    Insde April 10 2016 00: 22
    -1
    Author, do you want to say that over 4 years of intensive work, the BDK has developed its resource? You are crazy.
  17. pacific
    pacific April 10 2016 02: 38
    +3
    Quote: itr
    if tomorrow the war mobilizes the civilian fleet mister author! absolutely free

    Something I did not find (maybe I missed?) Among the very sensible reviews of the coverage of one small, but very important topic: auxiliary vessels of the Navy are vessels of special construction!
    For starters, they need speed. The economical move for EM pr.956 was 18/24 knots. Accordingly, auxiliary vessels, in any case those referred to in the article, should also give the same speed. No wonder there is such a term - squadron tankers.
    Check out the performance characteristics of the "Sir" - they all have very high driving characteristics. And this is in the American Navy, which has its own bases around the world.
    And the Navy had no bases besides Tartus, and there weren’t so many of them even in Soviet times.

    And the majority of the civilian fleet does not go fast - 12 ~ 16 knots. If you recall the Falkland conflict of 1982, then Royal Navy chartered (sic!) Exclusively passengers for transporting troops and high-speed container ships. Including because only these types of ships constructively had (and still have) speeds comparable to the speed of warships. And then - only at the transition.

    And this is only ONE reason for not being able to leave the situation as described. I'm not talking about mobilization - how are you going to mobilize these civilian ships if one ship is loaded in the Black Sea, and the other is at the crossing in the Atlantic, and the third is generally somewhere in the Pacific or Indian Ocean? Just try to imagine how much proof of mobilization plans you need to do daily!

    Well, for "sweet" - the ships of the auxiliary fleet of the Navy are special-purpose ships and, accordingly, have special equipment.
    A couple of years ago I saw in Volos how military cargo was unloaded at a nearby pier. In 3-4 hours the ship was completely unloaded. Part of the cargo was removed by cranes, and part was taken out by loaders on the ramp. In less than a day, 4 vessels were unloaded.
    I assure you that not a single civilian vessel except a container ship and / or Ro-Ro is able to unload so quickly.

    I did not serve and did not work in the auxiliary fleet. So, I probably missed a lot. I hope that there is a specialist to supplement me. But what I have already written in abundance is enough to show that ships of special construction cannot be dispensed with. And I’m sure that they will be built.
  18. Yarik76
    Yarik76 April 10 2016 22: 41
    0
    Pomnitsa were the USSR as far as tank carriers' where did they go? One like sailed to the USA! What we have we do not keep 'if we lose - we cry.
  19. Pygmy
    Pygmy April 12 2016 12: 20
    0
    Not long ago, in an article about Crimean shipyards, there was a dispute how to download them? I think the answer suggests itself, at present they need to set the task of building an auxiliary fleet, and when they get their hands on it it will be possible to order military vessels.