Military Review

Sixth generation fighter: near far

88
Sixth generation fighter: near far



A promising front-line complex has not yet been adopted aviation T-50, and in Russia work began on the creation of a sixth generation fighter
Talk about the work on the sixth generation fighter received official confirmation. At a meeting on the development of the Russian military aviation 2 in March, the company "Sukhoi" announced the data on the development of such an aircraft in manned and unmanned versions. After the event, Deputy Prime Minister Dmitry Rogozin and Commander-in-Chief of the Air and Space Forces (VKS) of Russia Viktor Bondarev stated this. Having substantiated the need for such works: “If we stop now, we will stop forever,” Colonel-General Bondarev noted that airplanes are being created “... and of the sixth, and, probably, seventh” generation. According to him, unmanned fighters can be created in Russia in three years.

It would seem that in a situation of incomplete work with a promising aviation complex of front-line aviation (PAK FA) and known as T-50, it’s premature to talk about the next one. However, a look beyond the “horizon” is a global trend, an engine for the development of existing and creation of promising technologies. Finally, it is a guarantee that Russia will remain in the “pool” of world leaders and will not sink to the level of a “banana” republic with the loss of national dignity.

Optimists are inspired, skeptics persist in their doubts about the achievement of the tasks set, and pragmatists make cautious forecasts and suggestions for solving the latter. The truth of each of them in the current, very difficult economic conditions is not easy to assess today, because each opinion is usually reasonable. But one thing is certain, the truth is somewhere in the middle.

Optimists


One of the "inspiring" arguments is the above and quite capacious statement of the Commander-in-Chief of the All-Union Confederation of the Armed Forces Viktor Bondarev. Indeed, promising work in the aircraft industry stimulates the creation of new materials, technologies and advanced end products. The airline industry, as the locomotive of our entire industry, accumulates the latest scientific and technological achievements, which are then introduced into other national economic sectors and our daily lives.

At one time, it was active work in aviation that brought our country into the leaders of the global aircraft industry, became the basis of victory in the Great Patriotic War. And today in this area we are on an equal footing with other leading countries.


During the docking of the elements of the fuselage of the Sukhoi Superjet 100 aircraft at the enterprise "Sukhoi". Marina Lystseva / TASS

Skeptics

But there are reasons that cause skepticism about plans and opportunities for the development of our combat aircraft, the aircraft industry as a whole. First of all, it is connected with our fifth-generation multifunctional fighter T-50. The most common question is: when will the aircraft enter service with our own VKS with its own engine, and not its counterpart?

Statements about the arrival of the first T-50 serial fighter aircraft in the 2017 year, which were not once repeated, are not encouraging among skeptics. Perhaps their point of view would change the periodic coverage of encouraging results in this direction. In particular, such. After the meeting at the Sukhoi company, it was announced that the PAK FA tests were completed, which should carry out the first flight with its own second-stage engine (product 30) in 2018. In total, in the period up to 2020, the military should get fifth-generation 55 fighters.

They do not add faith in our aviation industry and statements that are disavowed after some time. So, once it was stated that the promising aviation complex of long-range aviation (PAK DA) would be almost hypersonic. But just a few days after that, the representative of the long-range aviation clarified that the promising aircraft would be subsonic.

Against the background of existing successes in the creation of combat aircraft and helicopters, skeptics point to a rather deplorable situation in the field of civil aviation. The vast majority of its aircraft, mostly not new, "flew" to us from abroad. There is no special reason to believe that they appeared with us according to the principle: “God for you, that we are not worthy,” nevertheless, their dominance on the domestic and external routes of Russian airlines is a very good reason for skepticism about the possibilities of producing our own aircraft.

As a result, there are questions like, but where are our famous civil aircraft of the “Tu”, “Il”, “Yak” brands? Why did you decide to attract foreign pilots to work in Russia, and the implementation of domestic developments is strongly hampered? And these are just some of the many. There are no encouraging answers to such questions, which does not allow skeptics to move to another “weight” category.

Pragmatists


It can be assumed that this category is closest to the truth and occupies the “golden” middle. Supporting the first, they soberly assess the existing situation, and, agreeing with the second on some issues, indicate the most acceptable, in their view, ways to eliminate the reasons for skepticism. The basis for pragmatists and their approach to assessing the state of affairs in the aviation industry is the principle of achieving the desired, taking into account the real possibilities for this.

It must be assumed that it is their assessments and proposals that should underlie the decisions and actions taken for the further development of the Russian aviation industry. Otherwise, the end result will be overstated or completely unjustified government spending, the loss of priorities, promising areas and projects. And there are such examples in both the combat and civil aviation sectors. Pointing to the “thin” places of pragmatics, thus they give directions for improvement and the elimination of shortcomings.

Thus, the emphasis on the development of, of course, efficient, Su family aircraft, at one time, blocked oxygen for the development of a line of light MiG-type fighter aircraft. However, practice has shown that this is one of the promising areas in the development of combat aircraft. Approximately the same situation is observed with aircraft of the Beriev Design Bureau.

Even more violations of real approaches to the creation of new types of pragmatists are noted in the field of civil aviation. It is enough to remember what efforts and funds were spent on the creation and promotion of the Russian short-haul Superjet-100 aircraft (Sukhoi Superjet 100, SSJ 100). But the expected breakthrough in this area, solid orders for its production and improvement of the situation in the domestic air transportation market did not happen. This example, in conjunction with the above, about airplanes of the type “Tu”, “Il”, “Be”, “Yak” and others - vividly confirms the correctness of the assessment of the situation by pragmatists and the development of recommendations corresponding to it.

As a result


The conclusion is obvious - the work on the fighter of the sixth generation is objectively necessary. Otherwise, we again find ourselves in the role of catch-up, as happened with the electronics. But it should be remembered that any new development requires appropriate and, as a rule, considerable funding. In the current situation it is one of the most important “stumbling blocks”. Today it is necessary, with a minimum of government expenditures on a competitive basis, to ensure that all those who are able to make a real contribution can participate in this work. Only after selecting the project that meets the requirements of the customer, to ensure its state financing in strict compliance with the designated deadlines. Obtaining a state order for the creation of a specific sample should be a “reward” and an incentive for all equally.

As for the likely appearance of the sixth generation fighter, then it makes sense to listen to the arguments of the pragmatists. Pavel Ivanov, editor-in-chief of Aviapanorama, expressed it in a concentrated form. He believes that "a super-advanced FA complex (SPAK FA)," as he conditionally calls the new future complex for front-line aviation, "must be unmanned ...". However, the current "technological level allows us to rely more on a dual variant SPAK FA", which will allow "some of the combat missions to be solved by unmanned aircraft, and some by manned aircraft. Such a decision has already been voiced, and it is based on deep common sense. ”

Ivanov believes that "SPAK FA" should be "substantially lighter, as well as cheaper than the PAK FA", which is one of the "natural conditions for creating a fleet of aircraft that is significant for national defense in real terms".

In addition, it is necessary to take into account the existing experience. According to Ivanov, it is important not to step on the American rake, but to carefully circumvent them, and, in his opinion, one should not dive deep into developments “far ahead of their time”. He considers the latter condition more suitable for “PR in political games, in internal competition”. “With a very limited budget and a shortage of time that has not suddenly arisen,” the victories in them “turn into considerable losses for the country, and in the worst case such developments become a quality reserve for foreign projects,” says Aviapanorama's editor-in-chief.

If we summarize the existing opinions on this topic, we can assume the following. High cost will be one of the decisive factors in expanding the functionality of the sixth generation fighter. Chances are of using stealth technologies when creating them. With a supersonic cruising airspeed, the aircraft of the sixth generation will have super-maneuverability, a long range and be equipped with the most modern high-precision weapons.

"Six" will be able to operate in a single combat information and control system. It can also be assumed that this aircraft will be used in manned and unmanned modes. It is not excluded that this machine will inherit much from its predecessor.

Thus, work on the sixth generation combat fighter is necessary, but taking into account the current economic realities, the capabilities of the state and the experience gained in the development and testing of the PAK FA.
Author:
Originator:
http://rusplt.ru/sdelano-russkimi/istrebitel-shestogo-pokoleniya-blizkoe-dalekoe-23038.html
88 comments
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  1. lav67
    lav67 April 5 2016 21: 08
    +2
    Of course they will. .if there is money. There are still specialists. And production facilities allow. Definitely a plus for the development of high technology.
    1. AlexSK
      AlexSK April 5 2016 21: 14
      +11
      The most important thing is that there would be political will, and money for such a thing can always be found.
      1. Yuri from Volgograd
        Yuri from Volgograd April 5 2016 21: 24
        +13
        Quote: AlexSK
        The most important thing is that there would be political will, and money for such a thing can always be found.

        I remember a story about Khrushchev when the generals told him they say let's get ahead of America in arms!
        And then he asked a question to a question - Why? What would they see our bare butt?
        Here it is the same. 3 / 14ndos found themselves how to spend an unrealistic pile of dough on F35, and now we look envious of them.
        Everything should be in moderation. Let me remind you of a banter from a foreign aviator about F22 (raptor), they say the plane is so inconspicuous (well, like a stealth one) that it has not been seen in a single conflict until now, it's a little expensive fly, even democrats are afraid to lose it.
        In general, first put on the wing of the poltos, then continue to dream.
        1. Dryuya2
          Dryuya2 April 5 2016 22: 00
          +3
          litter for offtopic - the news went on a network
          I will not give links - maybe fake?
          dial - (Vityaz special forces officer - news)
          already carried - sad
          Moscow's comsomolets-
          Radio Liberty
          Business Petersburg
          Lenta.ru
          Russian Spring
          1. sabakina
            sabakina April 5 2016 22: 34
            +6
            Quote: Dryuya2
            litter for offtopic - the news went on a network
            I will not give links - maybe fake?
            dial - (Vityaz special forces officer - news)
            already carried - sad
            Moscow's comsomolets-
            Radio Liberty
            Business Petersburg
            Lenta.ru
            Russian Spring


            The 27-year-old special forces officer Fedor Zhuravlev, who solved the tasks of providing guidance for air-based cruise missiles, died on a mission in November 2015

            Followed your link. And what, cruise missiles without a gunner can not hit the target?
            1. Dryuya2
              Dryuya2 April 5 2016 23: 02
              +1
              Quote: sabakina
              27-year-old special forces officer Fedor Zhuravlev

              special forces officer of the internal troops of the Ministry of Internal Affairs of the Russian Federation Vadim Tumakov.
              news confirm like
              http://www.vesti.ru/doc.html?id=2739785
              all refer to Orenday.Ru
              I can’t enter it now - I went to this before and there I saw this news request
              1. Dryuya2
                Dryuya2 April 5 2016 23: 10
                0
                Quote: Dryuya2
                I went before and there I saw this news
              2. VP
                VP April 6 2016 06: 37
                0
                He quit the Ministry of Internal Affairs 10 years ago
            2. Iline
              Iline April 6 2016 08: 18
              0
              Our existing cruise missiles are guided on a fire-and-forget basis. The coordinates of the target are entered into them on the ground (as an option, photographs of targets can also be entered for guidance at the final stage). After launch, it is no longer possible to retarget them. And it’s not necessary - strategic missiles have as their targets strategic objects, and they, as you know, are very inactive.
        2. AlexSK
          AlexSK April 5 2016 22: 05
          +1
          I have to think about such things in advance, I think so, and not when the "partners" are already in service, and the article says.
      2. Revolver
        Revolver April 5 2016 21: 26
        +6
        Quote: AlexSK
        The most important thing is that there would be political will, and money for such a thing can always be found.

        Many have plenty of political will. And even there is money. But few have real opportunities. Look, the Chinese have been trying to unite the Russian aircraft engines for a year, and there is no result from the word at all, because it is not a solution to develop technology, even at the highest level.
        1. cniza
          cniza April 5 2016 22: 01
          +3
          Thus, work on the sixth generation combat fighter is necessary, but taking into account the current economic realities, the capabilities of the state and the experience gained in the development and testing of the PAK FA.


          With these words, everything is said to work out or not work, time will tell, but you need to work.
        2. AlexSK
          AlexSK April 5 2016 22: 07
          0
          Well, thank you, we have specialists so far, there are opportunities in this area.
        3. user
          user April 6 2016 10: 42
          0
          Many have plenty of political will. And even there is money.


          This is not enough while we will be in F ... (pick up the words yourself) in the production of microelectronics we will stay in the role of catching up and PAK6 and PAK7 and .....
      3. Pravdarm
        Pravdarm April 5 2016 21: 31
        +7
        Quote: AlexSK
        The most important thing is that there would be political will, and money for such a thing can always be found.

        Maybe the sixth generation is better to skip to 7 right away.
        Antigravity!
        Or, at least to trumpet (like "Status-6 leak") that they started.
        I wish I could see how the Americans sprinkled in hysteria.
        How hrenoliards with pale, quivering lips would demand from Congress to oppose the "super-secret" Russian Antigravitators! And to develop their own F-75 anti-gravitators! laughing

        PS: A joke. drinks
        To raise the evening (Kaliningrad) and Morning (Vladivostok) mood forum users VO!
        1. volgroo
          volgroo April 5 2016 21: 47
          +1
          I propose combining aviation with infantry. Create antigravity packs. A soldier puts on and on a shaving flight over grass with a grenade launcher in his hands flies at the enemy.))))
          1. PHANTOM-AS
            PHANTOM-AS April 5 2016 23: 26
            +3
            Quote: volgroo
            Create antigravity packs. A soldier dresses and flies over the grass with a grenade launcher in his hands and flies at the enemy.))))

            Everything is already there!


            1. opus
              opus April 6 2016 01: 01
              +2
              Quote: PHANTOM-AS
              Everything is already there!

              does not count .....

              negative

              Grenade launcher
              Quote: volgroo
              in hand
              WHERE?

              Threat. antipodes even women in the hands of AIM-9 hold
              1. PHANTOM-AS
                PHANTOM-AS April 6 2016 01: 22
                0
                Quote: opus
                WHERE?

                Good question laughing
                Suspends under the wings wink
                Quote: opus
                antipodes even women in the hands of AIM-9 hold

                fl. Yes! In the state of Kaklahoma, in every garage, these are sold and even on credit with a "-" owl rate wink laughing
              2. user1212
                user1212 April 6 2016 06: 04
                +1
                Quote: opus
                Threat. antipodes even women in the hands of AIM-9 hold

                Starting weight 91 kg
      4. vv3
        vv3 April 6 2016 02: 03
        +1
        "Six" will be able to operate in a single combat information and control system. "

        And how will she act in what is not? There is not a single one, not a local one ... You, mister author, first create this single combat information and control system ... We have the experience of World War II, we have spotters of fire on enemy territory ... We can send sappers to Palmyra .... But we cannot get an informational picture from a 2 km section of the Turkish-Syrian border in the absence of air resistance and air defense systems. with the help of AWACS aircraft, or with the help of reconnaissance aircraft, or ground-based radar systems and other means of reconnaissance ..... Neither, nor how .... Therefore, the flow of terrorists does not dry up ... Even if the entire territory of Syria is cleared ... They will climb from the territory of Turkey and Iraq and from other sides ... But we make robots, attack drones, UAVs based on the Yak-100, aircraft of the 2th and 130th generation, etc., which can be used in a "single combat information -the control system "later, when we make it ...I think that now everyone understands where the main efforts need to be directed, where the money needs to be injected urgently.
        1. opus
          opus April 6 2016 02: 44
          +1
          Quote: vv3
          .And here we can’t get an informational image from a 100 km section of the Turkish-Syrian border in the absence of air countermeasures and air defense systems. We can’t use either UAVs or satellite reconnaissance with a resolution of 2 meters, or using AWACS aircraft, or using reconnaissance aircraft, or ground-based radar systems and other reconnaissance equipment .....

          1.The UAV was received! These shots "flew" the whole world

          2. Satellite reconnaissance does not "pass" there (radar, the wrong tasks were / are), OV satellites photos of Turkey you will find "Resurs-P" and "Persona" RKS and GRU GSh RF



          3. DRLO was not there (ours)
          4. The ground will give the radar a picture of the radar radar positions, or targets, but no less than a 100 km section of the ChSG border, ha ChZK mountain

          Quote: vv3
          unified combat information management system "


          so far no one has for LA.
          For ship-deck aviation
          1. vv3
            vv3 April 6 2016 03: 26
            0
            Pictures are good ... But you need real-time target coordinates so that artillery and multiple launch rocket systems and other weapons can work on them, again in real time with adjustments, including for maneuvering targets ... I want a lot ... But this is the first step, why then make a Coalition or SZO with a range of up to 140 km? Where will they shoot? Or will we send a spotter or interview local residents? Why ultra-modern weapons (and we already have them), if they don’t know where to shoot. And they won’t know. There is PEREKOS: there are ISS weapons, and a targeting system for them, a single combat information-control system, IS NOT CREATED.
            1. opus
              opus April 6 2016 12: 56
              0
              Quote: vv3
              But you need real-time target coordinates

              Yes there are coordinates (though not "by my honor")
              1. Any snapshot is tied to the coordinates, what you / I see is a publicly accessible service, free of charge. Get it all for a fee.
              2. "Persona" (14F137), and the rest on the "Resurs-UKP" platform - the owner of the satellite (s) is the Main Intelligence Directorate of the General Staff (GRU GSh).
              Like Amber-4KS1 "Terylene" and Amber-4KS1M
              Ask Lieutenant General Korobov wink can give a couple of pictures.
              GRU created a "daughter" for civilian purposes: CJSC Sovinformsputnik
              http://www.sovinformsputnik.com/






              For the sake of fun, the receiving station (one of) satellite images (SpaceimagingEurasia) of Sovinformsputnik CJSC is located ...... ANKARA, TURKEY
              Quote: vv3
              including on maneuvering goals ... I want a lot ...

              has not yet been implemented by anyone. But will be
              Quote: vv3
              But this is the first step, why then make a Coalition or SZO with a range of up to 140 km? Where will they shoot?

              1. Shoot according to the identified target: tank, bunker, launcher, according to RTR, OVR, AR, GRU, etc.
              140 km for a 1,5 km / s projectile (or 1 km / s) is less than 2 minutes
              UAS "Krasnopol- *" will fall.
              Quote: vv3
              and a target designation system for them, a single combat information management system, is NOT CREATED.

              well, lagging behind so far ...
              1. vv3
                vv3 April 6 2016 15: 10
                0
                A very substantive and high-quality answer ... But we are talking about something else. Imagine the operator behind the monitor with the coordinate grid of the controlled area, which receives the digital image from the UAV at the current time. The task of controlling the UAV and relaying the signal is performed by technical specialists with a communication channel at operator.The operator’s area on the monitor shows the defeat zones of the donated assets. The operator visually or using special programs identifies targets. He selects the appropriate means of destruction from the given ones. The defeat means are tied to the coordinate grid and use the calculator to determine the rotation and excess angles. And they fire , it is better in automatic mode, destroying the target. Of course, simplifications or options are possible depending on the degree of integration of reconnaissance and destruction means. This cannot be done in manual mode or by phone. These modes must be provided, personnel are trained and trained. Separate systems are opportunities allow you to do this, technically Its improvements are insignificant. You need to train, choose the best options and learn and implement. From what is and will succeed. Who should do this, what do scientific companies do? When will the generals understand this ... WHAT do military universities and academies do? Industry will not bring it's on a silver platter ... There is no time, we are lagging behind.
                1. opus
                  opus April 6 2016 19: 59
                  0
                  Quote: vv3
                  Imagine the operator behind a monitor with a grid of coordinates.

                  I roughly imagine, I saw, the truth is based on the Israelis.
                  somewhere around the way you described.
                  do not forget that each UAV has an INS and GPS / GLONASS, so the images that it transmits are "tied" + the repeater (if not turned off, when entering the affected area)
                  -------------------------
                  In the 90s, when we were working on the topic "C * b", let's say for a marine underwater power supply unit, we could not solve the exact binding to coordinates, without surfacing.
                  all only on electronic echolocation / bottom charts and currents.
                  Not very accurate and tied to the zone / route, and the route was chaotic (this is the weapon of a loan day).
                  Maybe they have already decided, xs, although the water for the radio signal is impermeable, but with respect to the magnetic field (its gradient) ... so far is fantastic.
                  It’s like pseudo-astronavigation .. (but again accuracy) and on a cloudy day, at night (stars are not the sun, they will not give light from under the water) zero.

                  Quote: vv3
                  What do scientific companies do when the generals understand.

                  not my competence, let Shoigu go to the seminar

                  Quote: vv3
                  . WHAT do military universities and academies do? Industry will not bring this on a silver platter ... There is no time, we are lagging behind.

                  Universities do (take a word)
                  Industry, well, at last "begins" to turn ahead.
                  Lagging, yes. But now our well spurred
              2. vv3
                vv3 April 6 2016 15: 46
                0
                One clever person on the forum said that I played "tanks". Yes, it looks like a computer game! But behind this "game" there are real people, real technology. Such an information system of modern combat control allows not only to stop local conflicts, but also to prevent them. In Syria, in eastern Ukraine, in Karabakh .. .. there is no way to get away from such or similar systems. They are expected, they are needed. The more people understand this, the faster they will appear.
      5. gippernano
        gippernano April 7 2016 23: 19
        0
        If we assume that a plane of this class will fly into the sky with all the desired and expected components, then this imbalance f 35 is not a competitor, and with its aerodynamics it may and never will be, and how will they fight?
      6. gippernano
        gippernano April 7 2016 23: 19
        0
        If we assume that a plane of this class will fly into the sky with all the desired and expected components, then this imbalance f 35 is not a competitor, and with its aerodynamics it may and never will be, and how will they fight?
    2. poquello
      poquello April 5 2016 21: 20
      0
      Quote: lav67
      Of course they will. .if there is money. There are still specialists. And production facilities allow.

      they’ll do it, but no matter how the plane is already, I hope the place will remain for the pilot
      1. Kasym
        Kasym April 5 2016 21: 34
        +2
        The most important thing is to have a competent and real technical task from the Ministry of Defense. And that will come up with something like in the USA with the F-35. Give them a wagon, so they got ... "penguin". hi
    3. Blondy
      Blondy April 5 2016 22: 43
      +5
      But one thing is certain - the truth is somewhere in between.

      In general, the way the classics taught, the truth is always concrete. Specifically, in this case, the delay with the T-50 is associated with the "native" engine "product 30", which is still underdeveloped, and is being dealt with by the Rybinsk NPO Saturn. Well, and "Sukhoi" that idle, the design bureau has almost completely done its job and has every reason and opportunity to engage in the sixth generation. Well, they will concentrate, in extreme cases, an insignificant part of the smile on the fine-tuning of the T-50 with a new engine, so this is still 18 years. Well, for now, as they say, all the cards are in hand.
      1. 79807420129
        79807420129 April 5 2016 23: 11
        +7
        Quote: Blondy
        the "native" engine "product 30", which is still underdeveloped by the Rybinsk NPO "Saturn"

        Dear Blondy Rybinsk NPO Saturn five years ago began to develop "product 30", then it was transferred either to Perm or Ufa, we may produce some units, but the assembly is not ours. hi
        1. Blondy
          Blondy April 6 2016 00: 41
          +3
          Yes, I'm not talking about the fact that they worked badly, everything is fine here, but anyway, the delay is due to the engine. Here it is necessary to knock on the big backs of the neck that they did not plan and did not synchronize the development, most likely, either it flowed in the wrong direction, or the toad crushed where it was not necessary.
          1. Blondy
            Blondy April 6 2016 05: 45
            +1
            Quote: Blondy
            Yes, I'm not talking about the fact that they worked badly, everything is fine here, but anyway, the delay is due to the engine. Here it is necessary to knock on the big backs of the neck that they did not plan and did not synchronize the development, most likely, either it flowed in the wrong direction, or the toad crushed where it was not necessary.

            In, damn it, it seems that it has long been no longer a girl, and all the brains will not be rebuilt. In our country, Shoigu became the Minister of Defense only from November 12, 30. And before that, who was? This is the root of the product XNUMX problem. So, the truth is always concrete, as the classics of Marxism-Leninism taught.
            1. 79807420129
              79807420129 April 6 2016 08: 11
              +8
              Quote: Blondy
              Yes, I'm not talking about the fact that they worked badly, everything is fine here, but anyway, the delay is due to the engine. Here it is necessary to knock on the big backs of the neck that they did not plan and did not synchronize the development, most likely, either it flowed in the wrong direction, or the toad crushed where it was not necessary.

              Yes, and I’m not that we work poorly in Rybinsk, dear Blondy can’t fill up orders, I just work there myself, and for the delay on the big nape, it's time to crash. hi
              Quote: Blondy
              In, damn it, it seems like a long time ago no longer a girl, but all brains will not be rebuilt.

              Well, yes, yes, such brains as you have something for someone up there would be nice to have. Regards hi love
    4. RUS96
      RUS96 April 5 2016 22: 55
      0
      A video appeared on the web with a surviving Su-22 pilot shot down by militants.
      http://ren.tv/novosti/2016-04-05/v-seti-poyavilos-video-s-vyzhivshim-pilotom-su-
      22-sbitogo-boevikami
    5. mQn
      mQn April 6 2016 09: 30
      0
      an absolutely useless article, poured water and tautology and summed up:
      "Thus, work on the sixth generation combat fighter must be carried out, but taking into account modern economic realities, the capabilities of the state and the experience gained during the development and testing of the PAK FA."

      Brilliant!
  2. seti
    seti April 5 2016 21: 14
    0
    Rejoice in the little, then the big will come. These words of Peter the Great are relevant now.
    1. proletarian
      proletarian April 5 2016 23: 36
      0
      And Dear, I see you are not one of the "horses"; well, I hope we will live to see the hour when "" settles and the truth unfolds in full swing.
  3. WE ARE MAKING
    WE ARE MAKING April 5 2016 21: 16
    +1
    Russia is a great aviation and space power. This is one of, alas, few things now that we can be truly proud of. Russia has no right to be a country without a strong, and, most importantly, productively "own" army. Our successes in the production of military equipment is one of those things that gives me the strength to endure our officials and all internal troubles.
  4. gergi
    gergi April 5 2016 21: 17
    +9
    A designer, if he is a true creator, cannot think inside and out. The flight of thought is endless. Working on the fifth, he dreams of the sixth, etc. .. He cannot help but think. These are not 8 to 17 sharpening bolts with a lunch break. He is simultaneously tormented and enjoys. And so brilliant ideas are born in us. Amazing in its sophisticated simplicity. And we will have the seventh, and one hundred and seventh. We are a creative people, we are the hope of the planet.
  5. hartlend
    hartlend April 5 2016 21: 19
    +4
    And I would also like the same breakthrough in civil aviation. It's time to squeeze out the Boeing and Airbus, at least from Russia.
    1. Blondy
      Blondy April 6 2016 01: 00
      +2
      Hopefully, the concrete truth here is that (though zaminusuyte, but as a Khazanov parrot I will stand my ground), never, since the days of the USSR, we have not had normal competitive civil aviation (only IL 18 received an international certificate in due time - but to the point). The main disadvantage is the very expensive operation: the engines ate fuel above all acceptable limits and the long time of ground preparation (somewhere around 14 for ours and 6-8 for them), without thinking about noise, comfort and other small things. So, in principle, our developers, if according to modern requirements, then everything - from scratch. And there is no certainty that the first pancake will not be lumpy. Immediately, too, we need our own specific school, which, in principle, we did not have.
  6. vglazunov
    vglazunov April 5 2016 21: 20
    +2
    It is necessary to modify the fifth generation engines to a high level of reliability.
  7. demiurg
    demiurg April 5 2016 21: 23
    +5
    Already how many centuries of war theorists have planned as fast and bloodless for their army, due to copper weapons, cavalry, guns, new gunpowder, rifled guns, rifled small arms, tanks, planes, guided weapons, network centrics.
    The war of equals will be on earth. Which will be all in the funnels from the TNW and ICBMs. Both planes and tanks will be needed in the hundreds of months. And no money will help to produce 200-300 raptors per month. There is simply not enough qualified staff. Already, the developed (rich) countries are much more technologically armed with their poorer neighbors.
    We need to think about the weapons of a future war, and we definitely need to restore the Armed Forces to an acceptable level. But the further arms race is a moot point.
  8. 3vs
    3vs April 5 2016 21: 29
    +2
    So, they will come to the concept of a flying saucer - there will be no pilot, the device will have to
    fly in any direction with maximum overloads, a plate for this just fits ...
  9. pexotinec
    pexotinec April 5 2016 21: 32
    +1
    Do not play too much like the Americans with the F-35. I have no doubt in the achievements and tenacity of our designers, but these races ...
    Recall the Golden Eagle and the T-50 as it was advertised, but in the case of the Su-35. I wish you only success!
  10. Dikson
    Dikson April 5 2016 21: 32
    +1
    It’s right .. Designers, engineers - should not sit without work, thought should move forward, look for new solutions, technologies .. Unfortunately, only military equipment moves the progress of mankind .. The main thing is that you would only work, do what they can do, so that you do not have to collect beds in workshops for spacecraft ..
  11. Shadowcat
    Shadowcat April 5 2016 21: 37
    +2
    Get your sleigh ready in the summer ...
  12. afrikanez
    afrikanez April 5 2016 21: 38
    +2
    Of course, it is necessary to conduct such developments to create the next generation aircraft. But the question is, the capabilities of fifth-generation aircraft have not yet been demonstrated at all (combat experience and use in battle) to talk about the creation of the 6th generation, well, it is very early, in my opinion. But work should be continued in any case (technology must still be increased)
    1. proletarian
      proletarian April 5 2016 23: 28
      -2
      Why, then, the F22 "RAPTOR" has been demonstrating its capabilities for quite a long time, while the "dryers" of the 4th generation can nevertheless "compete" with it on an equal footing, and in general, who said that the US does not develop 6th and 7th generation combat aircraft?
      1. Kronos07
        Kronos07 April 6 2016 09: 15
        -1
        Just wait
  13. avg-mgn
    avg-mgn April 5 2016 22: 00
    +2
    I have no doubt for a moment that the designers' portfolios have a lot of ideas and developments for one reason or another that were not implemented in the design of 4 ++ ... and 5 generations. A correctly set task always has a solution - says the philosopher, the designer believes that a correctly set task has a unique solution. What a concept: Hyper or Before, easy or heavy the customer will be selected and the sooner the better.
  14. bovig
    bovig April 5 2016 22: 04
    +2
    "According to Ivanov, it is important not to step on the American rake, but to carefully bypass them, and, in his opinion, one should not dive deeply into developments" far ahead of their time. "
    There is no need to step on a rake, but nevertheless it makes sense to plunge into developments "far ahead of their time", because a new quality is more important than the old quantity and science should not stand still ... And if they are afraid that someone will see our bare bottom, then then you have to look into someone else's ... As it is now in electronics: at one time they lost their own and joined the tail of the American one, as a result they fell behind the Chinese too ...
    1. NEXUS
      NEXUS April 5 2016 22: 18
      +3
      Quote: bovig
      "According to Ivanov, it is important not to step on the American rake, but to carefully bypass them, and, in his opinion, one should not dive deeply into developments" far ahead of their time. "

      There is such a rule of 50%, in which, if there is more than 50% in a new airplane, it is more likely that it simply will not fly, or it will be difficult to teach it to fly.
      And therefore, I believe, everything will be done in stages. They will bring to mind the PAK FA, after, after a while, they will upgrade it, introducing technologies that they plan to use on the 6th generation fighter, and after that they will sculpt a new fighter. It was approximately the same with SU -35C and PAK FA, where the 35th transitional stage from generation 4 to five.
      1. Lopatov
        Lopatov April 5 2016 22: 41
        +1
        Quote: NEXUS
        There is such a rule of 50%, in which, if there is more than 50% in a new airplane, it is more likely that it simply will not fly, or it will be difficult to teach it to fly.

        Well, the Wright brothers weren’t aware of this ...
        1. NEXUS
          NEXUS April 5 2016 22: 49
          +2
          Quote: Spade
          Well, the Wright brothers weren’t aware of this ...

          Before the Wright Brothers there were so many attempts and developments that your example is not so much in your favor, but just in favor of this rule.
    2. Sagittarius YaNAO
      Sagittarius YaNAO April 5 2016 23: 04
      -2
      Quote: bovig
      "According to Ivanov, it is important not to step on the American rake, but to carefully bypass them, and, in his opinion, one should not dive deeply into developments" far ahead of their time. "
      There is no need to step on a rake, but nevertheless it makes sense to plunge into developments "far ahead of their time", because a new quality is more important than the old quantity and science should not stand still ... And if they are afraid that someone will see our bare bottom, then then you have to look into someone else's ... As it is now in electronics: at one time they lost their own and joined the tail of the American one, as a result they fell behind the Chinese too ...

      You are right, the T-50 (maybe) is just a platform for testing the technical task, otherwise we would have already accepted it. So there is a design base and good thoughts on technology.
      "Goodbye America...."
  15. NEXUS
    NEXUS April 5 2016 22: 06
    +3
    To start doing something on a 6th generation fighter, you must first create and work out technologies on a 5+ generation fighter.
    1. Lopatov
      Lopatov April 5 2016 22: 37
      +3
      Quote: NEXUS
      To start doing something on a 6th generation fighter, you must first create and work out technologies on a 5+ generation fighter.

      Not a fact.
      Development does not happen without jumping above your head.

      And to tune in to exclusively "catch up" is a great recipe for losing.
      1. NEXUS
        NEXUS April 5 2016 22: 46
        +3
        Quote: Spade
        Development does not happen without jumping above your head.

        Yes, but we do not have the industrial and financial capacities to jump over our heads like in the USSR, as was the case with the T-4, or with the Buran, and therefore we will have to simultaneously increase industrial capacities, train personnel and specialists, so that in the future jump above your head. For comparison: in the USSR there were 24 defense enterprises, and in Russia there are 000. There are no specialists, the industrial base is not comparable weaker than in the Union. vocational schools, technical schools, vocational schools, where is all this? You just need cool welders, electricians, machine operators ... they are not enough. For the "jump" we need a base and people whom we do not have enough today, how sad it is to admit.
        1. Vadim237
          Vadim237 April 6 2016 10: 04
          0
          Russia has as much left - along with new allies.
          1. NEXUS
            NEXUS April 6 2016 14: 03
            +1
            Quote: Vadim237
            Russia has as much left - along with new allies.

            If there’s so much left, we wouldn’t be soaring now with import substitution, replacement of Ukrainian-made units, and the construction of additional shipyards that can accommodate cruisers and aircraft carriers. Everything is ruined. In the 90s we lost up to 1500 new technologies, which were developed in the Union and in order to restore them, money, resources and specialists should not be measured. In the USSR there was cooperation on an all-Union scale, but now this is not all.
    2. proletarian
      proletarian April 5 2016 23: 16
      +1
      I do not agree with you, there are developments from the 2nd-4th generations that have not been used due to the lack of materials of the necessary strength and the necessary equipment; it is not in vain that they "raise" the TU-160, although the glider is "fifty dollars", but it is like with small arms, at this stage development from "physics" "squeezed" all the possible business now behind the "body kit".
  16. Odysseus
    Odysseus April 5 2016 22: 06
    +3
    The development of the 6th generation is, of course, good, that's just
    1) An unmanned fighter is, in my opinion, still a utopia. The Americans with great difficulty finish the manned universal stealth fighter F-35 by investing an astronomical sum into it, but they have not yet been able to bring the unmanned fighter for aircraft carriers (X-47) .An unmanned stealth fighter is simply incomparably more complicated.
    2) And it is completely incomprehensible what the dual concept of manned-unmanned means? Need to create 2 types of fighter? But why ? After all, if an unmanned need is created, the need for manned will disappear. There are so far only questions.
    3) The thesis that the 6th generation will be cheaper than the 5th is very strange. Is this due to what? So far, the value in the transition from generation to generation has only increased rapidly.
    If you remove unmanned, then so far the requirements for the 6th generation differ little from the 5th. Perhaps the 6th generation, like the 3rd, will become intermediate, in this case intermediate, before the creation of unmanned fighters.
    1. vv3
      vv3 April 6 2016 00: 52
      0
      It’s interesting which domestic calculator, on the basis of which domestic processor, which RAM and ROM will provide the computing process for controlling a hypersonic drone when flying at low altitude ?! Let's go down to the sinful earth. Enough of this nonsense about the 6th generation. The flight of thought of delusional dreamers is simply enraging .... The storytellers made our 5th generation aircraft a supersonic highly maneuverable melee fighter with weapons hidden in the internal compartments and a mysterious AFAR. Why mysterious? Because no one knows which calculator services this AFAR and which modes it uses on the basis of Indian and Chinese electronics, it implements better than American systems made using the best and most advanced world achievements ... The author probably thinks that the forum gathered alone ... And we will read this heresy with open mouths ....
  17. rd
    rd April 5 2016 22: 09
    -18%
    They were pushing, pushing with the 5th, they decided, well, nafig, it’s better immediately to the 6th, but in general it will be cooler on the 7th. give the seventh generation.
    1. gergi
      gergi April 5 2016 22: 35
      +8
      r.uinsky d.ebil .. He himself understood what he had ripped off? Hate brain drain from the nose? You soon will not be able to construct a loped there. It’s good to spit shit.
    2. Your friend
      Your friend April 5 2016 22: 50
      +3
      Quote: rd
      They were pushing, pushing with the 5th, they decided, well, nafig, it’s better immediately to the 6th, but in general it will be cooler on the 7th. give the seventh generation.

      Finally, you're right. Whether it is the case in Ukraine, already the 8th generation of fighter jets flies - the monuments to Lenin are perfectly exterminated.)))
    3. proletarian
      proletarian April 5 2016 23: 07
      +5
      Dear, would you like to compare the PAK FA with our "AZOVTS"; if the 6th and 7th generation of front-line aviation is being developed in Russia, then our feat is the alteration of the Mosin rifle, which is announced with special fanfare by the "first" "people" of our country ...
      PS Well, so we "jump" higher and further to complete SELF-DESTRUCTION, or what?
    4. Sagittarius YaNAO
      Sagittarius YaNAO April 5 2016 23: 13
      +3
      Quote: rd
      They were pushing, pushing with the 5th, they decided, well, nafig, it’s better immediately to the 6th, but in general it will be cooler on the 7th. give the seventh generation.

      You are a stupid humanoid creature.
    5. vovanpain
      vovanpain April 5 2016 23: 45
      +8
      Quote: rd
      They were pushing, pushing with the 5th, they decided, well, nafig, it’s better immediately to the 6th, but in general it will be cooler on the 7th. give the seventh generation.

      Well, yes, yes, when Ukraine made missiles "Satan" "Zenith" and at the shipyard in Nikolaev "Admiral Kuznetsov" and "Moscow" "Varyag", and now the RC "Ukraine" rusts and collapses at the pier, a symbolic name is not it , yes you can remember a lot of things, now you rivet the 6th generation stove stoves, so look and you will get to the 7th generation stools, well, jump further, jump higher, jump stronger. yes
    6. kamski
      kamski April 6 2016 04: 14
      0
      how is it in your ruin ?, fat is there, yet?
  18. Arktidianets
    Arktidianets April 5 2016 22: 24
    +3
    I don’t presume to judge military aircraft, but with the civilian fleet we have a bad situation, probably 70 percent of the boards that land at our port are foreign cars, and that’s all !!! leased, if domestic, then polls issued back in the USSR, only Sukhoi Super Jet pleases, and even then, is there a lot of Russian on it? Citizen needs to be raised!
    1. proletarian
      proletarian April 5 2016 22: 58
      0
      I beg your pardon, where were you in the 90s? So that's where the "legs" grow.
  19. stas
    stas April 5 2016 22: 46
    0
    Everything is correct, thought should be ahead of action.
    Su 27, were modeled back in the 70 years of the last century.
    1. Vadim237
      Vadim237 April 6 2016 10: 11
      0
      Simulation and design of aircraft has become much easier, thanks to the new CAD systems that dozens of people used to do. can do one now.
  20. Papapg
    Papapg April 5 2016 22: 47
    0
    Russia responded to US threats to block deal with Iran on the supply of Su-30

    New news. No, Russia will not sell the Su-30 to Iran, it will give them for rent, for hire, and for this permission of the Security Council is not required. am
  21. atamankko
    atamankko April 5 2016 22: 53
    +1
    You just have to work and think ahead of schedule in all design bureaus.
  22. proletarian
    proletarian April 5 2016 22: 56
    -1
    I put the article "minus", for the fact that with all the supposedly "patriotism" and concern for defense capability, the author very "averages" by placing light and heavy front-line aircraft in one line, because in this way you can "slide" to "Khrushchevsky": Nah. ..for us artillery when we have missiles.
    1. kamski
      kamski April 6 2016 04: 16
      +1
      Khrushev is a typical Ragul, when Nikita was the first secretary of the party’s MGK, he zealously submitted shooting lists of unreliable sometimes up to 10 thousand people (former kulaks, bandits, officers, speculators, clergymen, etc., etc., who served their sentences or not) and wrote to Stalin to calm down
  23. Denis Skiff
    Denis Skiff April 5 2016 23: 03
    -1
    Quote: Pravdarm
    Quote: AlexSK
    The most important thing is that there would be political will, and money for such a thing can always be found.

    Maybe the sixth generation is better to skip to 7 right away.
    Antigravity!
    Or, at least to trumpet (like "Status-6 leak") that they started.
    I wish I could see how the Americans sprinkled in hysteria.
    How hrenoliards with pale, quivering lips would demand from Congress to oppose the "super-secret" Russian Antigravitators! And to develop their own F-75 anti-gravitators! laughing

    PS: A joke. drinks
    To raise the evening (Kaliningrad) and Morning (Vladivostok) mood forum users VO!

    Here you are joking, but in the meantime, in the secret department of one kb they test the plane of invisibility. It is not visible to the naked eye. No radars see him either. He pressed a button and the plane is not visible. And this is not the coating and the angles of the planes.
  24. Pro100 people
    Pro100 people April 5 2016 23: 05
    0
    If they began to publicly discuss the topic of the sixth generation, then design work is already underway.
  25. Alisher
    Alisher April 5 2016 23: 44
    0
    In new and modernized aircraft, an increasingly important role and a share of the cost is played by electronics of all kinds, from electronic warfare to avionics. A glider can serve for a long time, if it was originally designed with high quality competent TK, for the purpose. So it is not necessary to start designing a 6+ aircraft, but its role in the future to start modeling on a computer and on simulators, taking into account the next generation of missile defense, air defense, drones, etc.
    Or do we need to come up with a new niche that nobody has so far - the British had a plane of vertical (shortened) take-off of the haari, the Americans decided to develop stealth, maybe we need to do reincarnation Spirals at a new level, or the carrier of drones?
    In general, one gets the impression that different countries are trying to draw their rivals into the race with their statements - who will throw more money into something unnecessary. Both mass, inexpensive, easy to learn and reliable in operation weapons and things (the light fighter?) Fight and sell best of all.
  26. Dormidont2
    Dormidont2 April 5 2016 23: 52
    0
    6th generation fighter must hover in the air in order to get lost for a while from radars, such as a convertiplane with swivel wings with turbojet engines
  27. Dormidont2
    Dormidont2 April 5 2016 23: 55
    0
    f35 vertical can hang, and get lost from radars
  28. Izotovp
    Izotovp April 6 2016 00: 20
    +1
    Now it’s already not possible to find the Old, but it has long been seen that ours began working on the 6th generation 15 years ago, only without a pump because it was commissioned by the Americans. Then we still didn’t pass KB Mile .. only the public saved.
    Now there are enough specialists to simulate on a computer, but iron engineers, technologists literate in the afternoon with fire !!!
  29. Yuyuka
    Yuyuka April 6 2016 01: 19
    0
    In the fall of 1935, the pilot Baidukov proposed to Chkalov to organize a record flight from the USSR to the USA through the North Pole and lead the crew of the aircraft. In the spring of 1936, Chkalov, Baidukov and Belyakov turned to the government with a proposal to conduct such a flight, but Stalin, fearing the repetition of an unsuccessful flight attempt, personally indicated another route plan: Moscow - Petropavlovsk-Kamchatsky. This flight started on July 20, 1936 and lasted 56 hours before landing on the sandy spit of Udd. The total length of the record route was 9375 kilometers.

    http://22-91.ru/statya/pervyjj-besposadochnyjj-perelet-valerija-chkalova-cherez-

    severnyjj-poljus / 05.04.2012/XNUMX/XNUMX

    And a year later there was a flight to America, after which it became clear that the USSR became a great aviation power ... This level of development in aviation was achieved in a few years ... There would be a desire and the right strategy ... How then did you manage without miracles economists and managers ?? I can’t imagine request

    dog-dog. I wish our filmmakers to make a film for the anniversary!
  30. bertgolz
    bertgolz April 6 2016 01: 53
    +1
    Quote: Yuri from Volgograd
    Let me remind you a banter from one foreign aviator about F22 (raptor), they say the plane is so inconspicuous (well, like a stealth one) that they have not yet been seen in any conflict

    but the T-50 is constantly in the sky!
    1. Kronos07
      Kronos07 April 6 2016 09: 23
      0
      Two rollers show US in-flight refueling during ISIS airstrikes. Clip it: KC-135 Stratotanker refueling with a B-1 Lancer bomber on a strike mission in Syria. F-22 Raptor at night in Syria. Both clips were filmed on September 27, 2014.
  31. kamski
    kamski April 6 2016 02: 02
    0
    To do new, you need to have advanced science. as was the most powerful modern electronics industry in the USSR. Today there is none of this, on paper will draw what is available in the field of science. All this looks like another project.
  32. Signaller
    Signaller April 6 2016 04: 29
    +2
    [b] It can also be assumed that this aircraft will be used in manned and unmanned modes. [It is possible, but not necessary. Soon all the people will put their "teeth on the shelf" ... Not because it does not work or something else, but simply DOES NOT DAY. And someone rakes in full in all kinds of offshore and others like them. And how we watch TV like this - such rubbish and all day ........
  33. Wolka
    Wolka April 6 2016 09: 52
    0
    it's time to change the aerodynamic forms of aircraft, because there are corresponding developments ...
  34. fzr1000
    fzr1000 April 6 2016 10: 23
    0
    I would very much like that up to the 6th generation, the Russian Federation had at least 500 shock UAVs. How is this going?
  35. pavelty
    pavelty April 6 2016 12: 11
    0
    So far, all this has been done with a pitchfork on water, the requirements for the 6th generation have been properly formed, it seems to me. In which design bureau they will develop it is not clear, there is little clarity, Comrade Ragozin blurted out something on Twitter and raced ...
  36. Shurale
    Shurale April 6 2016 17: 30
    0
    A promising T-50 front-line aviation complex has not yet been adopted, and work has begun in Russia on the creation of a sixth-generation fighter.

    You can "start work" on anything, but if you have not yet released a fifth-generation aircraft, then I can talk about the sixth generation .... You can, easily, you can finally talk, if you want to ... Only now I am thinking about the results not in our lifetime. This is reality. You can't jump over it. True, we can do it even next year, like "Armatu", raw, scary and ill-considered. It took us 15 years to perfect the world's best aircraft, let alone the sixth generation aircraft.