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Suiciders vigil: directions for the development of anti-ship ammunition. Part of 2

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Suiciders vigil: directions for the development of anti-ship ammunition. Part of 1


Suiciders vigil: directions for the development of anti-ship ammunition. Part of 2

WS-43 Chinese Warp Ammunition

Key players

Nevertheless, the high-precision capabilities of anti-ship ammunition (BB) have increased so much that it is possible to speak with confidence about their good prospects. A number of key suppliers, mostly from Israel and the United States, continue to develop in the field of BB, mostly funded from their own research funds, with the goal of receiving one-time orders for developing and supplying or presenting their solutions for future larger programs.

It is quite possible that the Israeli company IAI was the first to enter the market of modern BB with its Harpy development. The portable autonomous system launched from the launch canister, equipped with a passive homing head at the source of electromagnetic radiation, is optimized for suppressing enemy air defenses. The device Harpy, developed by the missile division of the company IAI, weighs 160 kg together with high-explosive fragmentation warhead weighing 15 kg. The wingspan is three meters, the range of action presumably exceeds 500 km, and the duration of 6 screening hours. According to reports, the main operators of this system are China, India, South Korea, Turkey and the Israeli army.

In October, 2005 was presented by MBDA in conjunction with the rocket unit of the Israeli company IAI, a modification of Harpy. She was selected as one of the finalists of the British program demonstrating the capabilities of antiquating ammunition, which has evolved into the now-closed IFPA program.

In 2009, IAI introduced Harop, a Harpy-equipped opto-electronic homing head, designed to hit high-priority, fast-moving targets with a critical lifetime. According to the company, the Harop system has basically the same characteristics as Harpy, with the exception of some differences. The round fuselage and the Harpy deltoid wing were replaced by a fuselage with a more complex profile and a deltoid wing with external planes having a reduced leading edge sweep.


Harop Barrage Ammunition

Harop can be launched from various transport platforms, including sea and land launchers. It can also be launched from aerial platforms in the direction of the intended target area. This BB can be launched from any angle, including horizontal or vertical trajectories.

It is assumed that Harop is equipped with an IAI Tamam MiniPOP / POP200 optical-electronic station and satellite communications. The Harop unmanned vehicle is equipped with a rotary-piston engine that drives the pusher propeller, which allows it to develop a cruising speed of 100 nodes (185 km / h) and have a maximum range of more than 500 km. However, the communication channel allows the operator to control the device within the line of sight at distances of only up to 150 km.



Fire Shadow, created by MBDA

At the airshow in Paris in 2015, the executive vice president of the rocket and space division of IAI, Boaz Levy, said that IAI is in the “advanced design stage” of a light sedative system based on Harop technology. Levy said that the new BB with an 2-3 loitering time of the hour will be launched from the launch canister. The new system will be about five times smaller than the current Harop machine, it will be equipped with a stabilized MicroPOP station (10 cm, 1 kg) manufactured by IAI Tamam Division and will be able to deliver a high-explosive fragmentation warhead kg (also about a fifth 3- kg Harop system warheads).

In its current modification, the new BB cannot be restored to its original state after the activation of the warhead, although recovery is possible in the case of an inert warhead. However, Levy confirmed that IAI is currently working “on future opportunities” that will allow the user to restore the BB with an activated warhead. The new ammunition will be able to be launched from land, sea and air platforms.

Levy said that a customer assessment of the prototype is expected in the middle of the 2016 year, and that the results of this initiative will enable the development of a promising family of lighter amusing ammunition.

Levy also confirmed that the rocket and space system division is developing a new version of Harpy. Harpy NG has exactly the same configuration as the current Harpy opto-head system, to which only a radio frequency homing head has been added.


Harpy Barrage Ammunition

Another Israeli company UVision invades the BB with a family of new dual-mode (information gathering and loitering) systems for air, land and sea platforms. Hero's line of locking systems, which has a unique cruciform configuration, originating from UVision's previous Wasp, includes seven possible options: three tactical and four longer ranges. At the moment, developed and qualified two options, Hero 30 and Hero 400, which are a further development of the previous high-precision munition Blade Arrow.

All variants have very low acoustic and thermal signs of visibility, can be used either as BB, or as reconnaissance parachute. The latter are equipped with a stabilized optical-electronic kit also Israeli development.

The Hero 30 portable tactical system (formerly Wasp) with an electric motor, with a maximum flight duration of 30 minutes and a range of 5-40 km with a mass of 3 kg, has a warhead weighing 0,5 kg. The larger Hero 400 with a longer range weighs 25 kg, including a warhead weighing 8 kg, it is equipped with a gasoline engine; the flight duration of the device is 4 hours, and the maximum radius of action in line of sight is 150 km. BB Hero 30 is designed to act against enemy manpower, while Hero 400 can fight tanks and other armored and protected means.


Hero 30 Barrage Ammunition

The third short-range, tactical BB Hero 120 container launch, is in the final stages of development. Hero 120 is equipped with an electric motor, has a warhead weighing 3,5 kg and is designed to work on armored vehicles and fortified structures.

Four more options are at the design stage: Hero 70 (short range, with electric motor, 45 flight minutes); Hero 250 (with a large radius of action, 15 km in direct line of sight, three hours of flight, a gasoline engine); Hero 900 (long-range, 250 km in line of sight, seven hours of flight, combat part 20 kg); and Hero 1250 with the range and duration of the flight that are not yet open, but whose characteristics are consultant to UVision Yair Doubester described as “comparable to the characteristics of the Harop system”.

The third and largest in the Hero series of short-range and dual-purpose platforms (information gathering / BB) developed by Uvision is the Hero 120 12,5 kg system designed to combat nearby armored / reinforced targets. Equipped with a 4,5 kg warhead and a stabilized Micro-STAMP Controp optoelectronic station, the Hero 120 system has an increased flight duration of 60 minutes and a communication channel operating within line of sight to 60 km.

Dubester said that all Hero systems are equipped with a ground-to-air communication channel and a video image transmission channel to the operator console. Targets can be selected manually or via pre-programmed GPS coordinates. While hero blocking systems can fly autonomously, human participation in the control loop allows you to select / deselect a target, as well as immediately interrupt the execution of the task. All variants are designed to be launched from the ground (launch canister or launcher; Hero 30 was shown in Paris on the UGL-30 variant of a remotely controlled TOMCAR machine modified for the UVision system), from an offshore platform (launcher or launcher) or with another aerial platform, possibly from a drone or helicopter.



Textron offers its BattleHawk Squad-Level solution for future LMAMS requirements.


Multi-purpose Warmate micro drone WB Electronics

UVision expects to submit a modified version of its Hero 30 system in the near future in order to meet the latest requirements of the LMAMS program. Dubester confirmed that the company in this competition will cooperate with the United States, but refused to name the company.

The Israeli company Aeronautics also entered the sphere of loot ammunition (BB), having developed its Orbiter 1K (Kingfisher). This locking system is based on its Orbiter 2 mini-UAV with an electric motor. The new and previous systems have a common ejection launcher, a ground station / user interface and an IEEE standard S- or C-band digital data channel, which allows you to get a range from 50 km to 100 km.

Orbiter 1K barrage ammunition is equipped with an avionics kit with an automatic flight control system, which provides flight in manual mode or along pre-programmed intermediate coordinates. The Orbiter 1K is designed to destroy a set of tactical targets: manpower and lightly armored targets, both stationary and moving. The onboard weight of 2,5 kg includes a Controp STAMP optoelectronic / infrared camera and a high-explosive fragmentation warhead that “delivers special tungsten balls”. The system has a task termination mode, which provides for the option of returning using a combination of a parachute and an airbag.

It is clear that the Israeli company Rafael Advanced Defense Systems, competing for the British IFPA program with its loitering BLADE (Battlefield Loitering Artillery Direct Effect) munitions, which is based on the modified Sparrow M UAV designed and produced by the Israeli company EMIT, has some interest in this area, but they refuse to discuss their current activities.

In the United States, with a pronounced interest in a large BB in the framework of the LMAMS program, much attention was paid to the development of a small-sized, with a reduced radius of action, tactical locking system.

While BB Switchblade, created by AeroVironment, is the only system of the LMAMS program, which is armed with dismounted infantry of the American army, this system was evaluated by other branches of the army for other tasks. The Combat Research and Improvement Laboratory and the Naval Corps Naval Research Center of the US Marine Corps evaluated the combat forms of using Switchblade barrage ammunition, including a test launch of the V-22 Osprey tiltrotor system at the Ground Forces Combat Command Center and aviation in California, while the U.S. Navy launched the Switchblade on surface targets from a submarine at periscope depth.

AeroVironment declined to discuss the details of Switchblade development, but it is clear that they are considering new versions of Switchblade to meet the requirements of the next version of LMAMS.

In order to fulfill the requirements for high-impact exposure, Lockheed Martin Missiles and Fire Control developed a family of lethal BBs with a simple name Terminator. This family consists of the original twin-screw airframe Terminator, which has an excellent maximum speed and maneuverability, as well as a new launch system from the tube guide Terminator-in-Tube (TNT), which increased the ease of carrying and deployment.

The basic twin-screw Terminator model of a ground launch (in development from the 2010 of the year) has an take-off weight together with a warhead less than 2,72 kg; the flight duration is about 15 minutes when flying at a cruising speed of 97 km / h, while the speed on the final part of the trajectory exceeds 161 km / h. In the nose of the installed day / night camera resolution 10 megapixels. The system can accept various warheads, including fragmentation and thermobaric variants. Lockheed Martin also used 3-D printing technology in the manufacture of the Terminator, some of the airframe parts are made of 12PA nylon powder.



Lockheed Martin Missiles and Fire Control Barracating Terminator Ammunition

The new TNT version, first shown at AUSA 2015, is more streamlined. It is distinguished by a rear mounted screw, folding inverted V-tail and wings for launching from a tube guide, as well as an improved sensor set in the bow. Lockheed Martin refuses to discuss the features of each Terminator option, but state that they are “working on a new TNT option for the expected LMAMS program. Therefore, we pay great attention to the mass, lethality, range, flight duration and other requirements put forward by the American army. ” The company added that “if there is a need for more lethality, longer flight time, additional options for the homing head, etc., we are ready to adapt the Terminator to perform the tasks. Existing technologies can be incorporated into the existing system, or the entire system can be expanded in size. ”

Likewise, Textron is offering its anti-battle ammunition BattleHawk Squad-Level for future LMAMS requirements.

BattleHawk's lightweight, portable tube launch system weighing less than 4,49 kg and 45,7 cm long (55,9 cm in the launch tube) is a combination of Textron 40-mm high-explosive fragmentation grenades and a Prioria Robotics mini-UAV.


Interchangeable warheads GK-1 and GO-1 for Warmate reconnaissance micro-UAV

This electrically powered system was first shown in 2011 under the designation T-RAM (Tactical Remote Aerial Munition), after which, already as BattleHawk, it received high-resolution cameras and the ability to track moving targets while aiming at the end of the trajectory. In its current configuration, BattleHawk has a flight duration of more than 30 minutes, a range of more than 5 km, and a dive speed to target of 100 knots. Don Willbum, head of business development at Textron Systems Weapon & Sensor Systems, said the company is "interested in developing the BattleHawk, in a variety of form factors, but when you start building larger aircraft, it all stops at squad-level loitering ammunition," although it is and is the main focus of the company in this area.

Polish company WB Electronics has developed a dual-use platform (air reconnaissance / BB) with interchangeable payload. WB Electronics for the first time showed the concept of its Warmate system at the MSPO 2014 defense exhibition held in Poland.

Warmate is described as a “micro” class military drone with launch from a launch canister (folding wings), which is carried in a shoulder pack and launched from the ground or from a vehicle.

With a maximum take-off weight of 4 kg, the Warmate can accept three payload options with a common interface. For percussion tasks are intended cumulative warhead GK-1 (for such purposes as light vehicles) and high-explosive fragmentation warhead GO-1 (to fight manpower). Developed by WB Electronics in cooperation with the Polish Military Weapons Institute, both combat units are equipped with built-in opto-cameras. For surveillance, detection, identification, WB Electronics has created a GS-9 species-specific optical-electronic station, which is stabilized along two axes. The payload option is selected based on the type of task being performed. The company WB Electronics says that in the role of locking ammunition, the Warmate airborne apparatus is a one-time solution, but in the reconnaissance version, equipped with the GS-9 optical-electronic station, it can be returned due to deep stalling.

In the current configuration, the Warmate system consists of the Warmate aircraft itself, a launch container, three interchangeable payloads, a lightweight (2,5 kg) enhanced control console (Warmate software also from WB Electronics) and a ground data processing terminal with an automatic tracking antenna. To start from vehicles, the management console or data processing terminal is integrated into the existing machine architecture.

Warmate has a range of direct line of sight 10 km and working heights from 3,5 to 200 meters, the maximum flight duration 30 minutes. When performing reconnaissance tasks, the system can fly independently at pre-programmed points, and, as a patrol ammunition, fly in semi-autonomous or manual modes.

The new projects manager at WB Electronics said that Warmate could also be launched from another drone, although it was not yet tested in this role.

Comment

Few people doubt that locking ammunition is excellent for combat missions, when immediate, high-precision impact is needed outside the line of sight, especially at the tactical level, but the transition to the system software level is too slow. The LMAMS program is proof that needs exist, at least on the part of end users, but even this program is subject to the vagaries of funding priorities. Meanwhile, the industry continues to develop and improve systems with its research funds, but for how long?

Materials used:
www.lockheedmartin.com
www.mbda-systems.com
www.iai.co.il
www.avinc.com
www.uvisionuav.com
www.aeronautics-sys.com
www.rafael.co.il
www.textron.com
www.wb.com.pl
www.wikipedia.org
en.wikipedia.org
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  1. qwert
    qwert April 6 2016 06: 56
    +5
    And where is the barrage of ammunition from Russia? Where are our nanotechnologies? Where is our Skolkovo?
    1. Gray brother
      Gray brother April 6 2016 08: 16
      -2
      Quote: qwert
      And where is the barrage of ammunition from Russia?

      They are not a vital type of weapon; development is not underway.

      Barrage ammunition has a number of shortcomings.
      1) Small mass of the warhead.
      2) Many modifications of such aircraft cannot return to the launch site or to another base, as this will lead to the undermining of their warhead. Simply put, a barrage of ammunition released into the air becomes a combat platoon and must be used on purpose. If for some reason it was not practically used by the enemy, it should be withdrawn to a safe area and self-destruct.
      3) Based on paragraph 2 - the high cost of use.
      4) The need to ensure safe for each other at the same time in the designated area several barrage of ammunition.
      5) Vulnerable control channel.
      1. atalef
        atalef April 6 2016 08: 26
        +10
        Quote: Gray Brother
        Quote: qwert
        And where is the barrage of ammunition from Russia?

        They are not a vital type of weapon; development is not underway.

        Barrage ammunition has a number of shortcomings.
        1) Small mass of the warhead.
        2) Many modifications of such aircraft cannot return to the launch site or to another base, as this will lead to the undermining of their warhead. Simply put, a barrage of ammunition released into the air becomes a combat platoon and must be used on purpose. If for some reason it was not practically used by the enemy, it should be withdrawn to a safe area and self-destruct.
        3) Based on paragraph 2 - the high cost of use.
        4) The need to ensure safe for each other at the same time in the designated area several barrage of ammunition.
        5) Vulnerable control channel.

        For BB - the future, the ability to control the territory up to 500 km depth - in automatic or manual mode, while protection from them is practically impossible - it's like a suicide bomber with an explosive belt - quiet, smart, barely noticeable - with the ability to change the target, time, etc.
        1. Gray brother
          Gray brother April 6 2016 08: 37
          -5
          Quote: atalef
          For BB - the future

          This is a dead end concept, the maximum where it can be applied is the support of special forces groups.
          They can control some territory only in the complete absence of counteraction and only until the fuel runs out.
          Knocking them down is certainly easier than a rocket.
        2. IS-80
          IS-80 April 6 2016 09: 03
          -1
          Quote: atalef
          For BB - the future, the ability to control the territory up to 500 km depth - in automatic or manual mode, while protection from them is practically impossible - it's like a suicide bomber with an explosive belt - quiet, smart, barely noticeable - with the ability to change the target, time, etc.

          There is no future for them. Too expensive and inflexible toy to use.
          1. atalef
            atalef April 6 2016 09: 08
            +3
            Quote: IS-80
            Quote: atalef
            For BB - the future, the ability to control the territory up to 500 km depth - in automatic or manual mode, while protection from them is practically impossible - it's like a suicide bomber with an explosive belt - quiet, smart, barely noticeable - with the ability to change the target, time, etc.

            There is no future for them. Too expensive and inflexible toy to use.

            Not flexible? belay expensive? belay
            1. Lopatov
              Lopatov April 6 2016 09: 30
              +5
              Quote: atalef
              Not flexible? belay expensive? belay

              Exactly.
              Impact UAV is a much more flexible means. Not to mention such a universal as a reconnaissance drone.
              1. atalef
                atalef April 6 2016 09: 35
                +2
                Quote: Spade
                Quote: atalef
                Not flexible? belay expensive? belay

                Exactly.
                Impact UAV is a much more flexible means. Not to mention such a universal as a reconnaissance drone.

                Well, yes. Move to the area when dozens of BBs have been hovering over the cola for many hours
                1. Lopatov
                  Lopatov April 6 2016 10: 11
                  +2
                  Quote: atalef
                  Well, yes. Move to the area when dozens of BBs have been hovering over the cola for many hours

                  Why can’t you bring them down? Is there any international treaty on this subject, and it will be a war crime? Or religious considerations?

                  Here is a word, a reconnaissance drone hovering in a dozen kilometers is much more dangerous than "dozens of BB"

                  "Hi BB" ... fellow
                  1. The comment was deleted.
                    1. PSih2097
                      PSih2097 April 6 2016 11: 34
                      +3
                      Quote: atalef
                      how personnel behaves when under sniper fire

                      it snoops on any suitable shelter and calls art or air support for work on the areas (if it’s in the forest or in green), in the city they put forward armor and hammer them with OFS ...
                      1. atalef
                        atalef April 6 2016 11: 57
                        +1
                        Quote: PSih2097
                        Quote: atalef
                        how personnel behaves when under sniper fire

                        it snoops on any suitable shelter and calls art or air support for work on the areas (if it’s in the forest or in green), in the city they put forward armor and hammer them with OFS ...


                        only in this case, for whom to fuck?
                      2. The comment was deleted.
                  2. atalef
                    atalef April 6 2016 11: 10
                    0
                    Quote: Spade
                    Why can’t you bring them down?


                    Because they are subtle and low noise.
                    Quote: Spade
                    and it will be a war crime? Or religious considerations?

                    Shovels, come on baby talk. You can shoot anything you want - it's just hard. And I will ask you as a military man, how does the personnel behave when they are under a sniper guard? So this is the same.
                    Or, on top of each tank, machine, etc., you’ll put an air defense gun \ (and even with an undeveloped air defense system).
                    And it’s for hours (at least) and a depth of up to 500 km.
                    Quote: Spade
                    Here is a word, a reconnaissance drone hovering in a dozen kilometers is much more dangerous than "dozens of BB"

                    Divorced and? And then he saw - destroyed.
                    1. Lopatov
                      Lopatov April 6 2016 12: 17
                      +6
                      Quote: atalef
                      Because they are subtle and low noise.

                      Transparent?
                      Have an ambient temperature? (let me remind you that the not new Javelin has enough difference of half a degree to capture)
                      Have less EPR than 81 mm mines?

                      Quote: atalef
                      You can shoot anything you want - it's just hard.

                      No, knocking down is getting easier and easier. And the BB is not the aircraft on which you can put an electronic warfare station, a complex of optoelectronic suppression and anti-missile.
                      Baby talk - to be confident in the complete lack of development of air defense systems, protection against VTB, C-RAM and C-UAV.
                      In addition, the defense of the units is growing. Starting with bulletproof vests and splinterproof suits, through armored vehicles with rather powerful armor, KAZ and KOEP, and ending with "group" complexes like Infauna
                      EW Infauna


                      Quote: atalef
                      And I will ask you as a military man, how does the personnel behave when they are under a sniper guard?

                      What a good example!
                      Previously, just hide. And now the probability of a second shot is near-zero if the sniper is not a suicide bomber.
                      For the troops are saturating with sound reconnaissance complexes (Americans are at the forefront, there are even wearable ones), IR reconnaissance (here you are at the front lines, and you are already moving to portable ones), optoelectronic detection of optics (here we are in the first positions).
                      Direct analogy 8)))


                      Quote: atalef
                      Divorced and?

                      ... and the polar fox fellow


                      First, the MLRS battery will supply a covering minefield.
                      Then, at best, a minute fire attack by an artillery division. Hundred with copecks 152 mm art. shells
                      In the worst case, two other batteries of the MLRS of the jet battalion will fire off "vinaigrette" from cluster munitions with SPBE and KOBE. Even several dozen BBs in terms of impact on the column will not come close to such a result.
                      1. atalef
                        atalef April 6 2016 12: 38
                        +3
                        Quote: Spade
                        Transparent? Are they at ambient temperature? (Let me remind you that a completely new "Javelin" is enough to capture a difference of half a degree) Do they have an RCS less than that of an 81-mm mine?

                        well, what will you shoot down?
                        A couple of dozen, taking into account that the first wave just extinguishes air defense

                        Quote: Spade
                        In addition, the defense of the units is growing. Starting with bulletproof vests and splinterproof suits, through armored vehicles with rather powerful armor, KAZ and KOEP, and ending with "group" complexes like Infauna

                        I saw all this in Karabakh. And?

                        Quote: Spade
                        Previously, just hide. And now the probability of a second round near zero

                        And the second shot is no longer necessary. BB - exploded
                        Quote: Spade
                        First, the MLRS battery will put a covering minefield. Then, in the best case, a minute fire raid of the artillery division. Hundred with copecks 152 mm art. shells

                        Why such difficulties? BB has already destroyed what is needed
                        Quote: Spade
                        Even a few dozen BBs on the impact on the column and will not come close to such a result.

                        To defeat the convoy, a lot is not necessary. By the way, what systems shoot at 500 km?
                      2. Lopatov
                        Lopatov April 6 2016 12: 51
                        +1
                        Quote: atalef
                        well, what will you shoot down?

                        The question is not posed correctly.
                        "How will BB be shot down on a promising battlefield?"
                        Answer: to many. Starting with 30-mm automatic guns of infantry units, combined into a single fire control system, and ending with serious air defense systems and C-RAM

                        DRACO OTO Melara 76mm

                        Quote: atalef
                        And the second shot is no longer necessary. BB - exploded

                        Uh ... The question was about the sniper. It does not explode after the first shot. And it’s easier for him to hide than a BB in the air.

                        Quote: atalef
                        Why such difficulties? BB has already destroyed what is needed

                        What destroyed: One car? A fire raid destroys the unit on the march as a whole.

                        Quote: atalef
                        To defeat the column, a lot is not necessary

                        At least one BB for one machine.


                        Quote: atalef
                        By the way, what systems shoot at 500 km?

                        And what columns are there? Refugees?
                        The rest will be protected on the march.
                      3. atalef
                        atalef April 6 2016 13: 00
                        +2
                        Quote: Spade
                        The question was posed incorrectly: “How will BB be shot down on a promising battlefield?” Answer: many. Starting with 30-mm automatic cannons for infantry units, combined into a single fire control system, and ending with serious air defense systems and C-RAM


                        not an answer, how do you get down BB
                        weighing 25 kg
                        The larger Hero 400 with a longer range weighs 25 kg, including a warhead weighing 8 kg, it is equipped with a gasoline engine; the flight duration of the device is 4 hours, and the maximum radius of action in line of sight is 150 km.

                        barely visible in the IR range and almost invisible on radars.
                        So what?
                        Quote: Spade
                        Uh ... The question was about the sniper. It does not explode after the first shot. And it’s easier for him to hide than a BB in the air.

                        Strange answer. especially when you consider that the question was posed very clearly
                        Quote: Spade
                        What destroyed: One car? A fire raid destroys the entire march unit

                        Say 40 km from the front, since you will destroy the convoy moving on the convoy?
                        And if in 50, and in 100. 200, 300, 400 km?
                        Quote: Spade
                        At least one BB for one machine.

                        Just then, well, 50 cars, 50 bb, fine. How many shells are needed? What about the UAV?
                        Quote: Spade
                        And what columns are there? Refugees? The rest will be protected on the march

                        Well, it’s clear that troops are telepathing to the front, by the way, but how will they be protected on the MARCH?
                      4. atalef
                        atalef April 6 2016 13: 00
                        +1
                        Quote: Spade
                        The question was posed incorrectly: “How will BB be shot down on a promising battlefield?” Answer: many. Starting with 30-mm automatic cannons for infantry units, combined into a single fire control system, and ending with serious air defense systems and C-RAM


                        not an answer, how do you get down BB
                        weighing 25 kg
                        The larger Hero 400 with a longer range weighs 25 kg, including a warhead weighing 8 kg, it is equipped with a gasoline engine; the flight duration of the device is 4 hours, and the maximum radius of action in line of sight is 150 km.

                        barely visible in the IR range and almost invisible on radars.
                        So what?
                        Quote: Spade
                        Uh ... The question was about the sniper. It does not explode after the first shot. And it’s easier for him to hide than a BB in the air.

                        Strange answer. especially when you consider that the question was posed very clearly
                        Quote: Spade
                        What destroyed: One car? A fire raid destroys the entire march unit

                        Say 40 km from the front, since you will destroy the convoy moving on the convoy?
                        And if in 50, and in 100. 200, 300, 400 km?
                        Quote: Spade
                        At least one BB for one machine.

                        Just then, well, 50 cars, 50 bb, fine. How many shells are needed? What about the UAV?
                        Quote: Spade
                        And what columns are there? Refugees? The rest will be protected on the march

                        Well, it’s clear that troops are telepathing to the front, by the way, but how will they be protected on the MARCH?
                  3. atalef
                    atalef April 6 2016 12: 38
                    0
                    Quote: Spade
                    Transparent? Are they at ambient temperature? (Let me remind you that a completely new "Javelin" is enough to capture a difference of half a degree) Do they have an RCS less than that of an 81-mm mine?

                    well, what will you shoot down?
                    A couple of dozen, taking into account that the first wave just extinguishes air defense

                    Quote: Spade
                    In addition, the defense of the units is growing. Starting with bulletproof vests and splinterproof suits, through armored vehicles with rather powerful armor, KAZ and KOEP, and ending with "group" complexes like Infauna

                    I saw all this in Karabakh. And?

                    Quote: Spade
                    Previously, just hide. And now the probability of a second round near zero

                    And the second shot is no longer necessary. BB - exploded
                    Quote: Spade
                    First, the MLRS battery will put a covering minefield. Then, in the best case, a minute fire raid of the artillery division. Hundred with copecks 152 mm art. shells

                    Why such difficulties? BB has already destroyed what is needed
                    Quote: Spade
                    Even a few dozen BBs on the impact on the column and will not come close to such a result.

                    To defeat the convoy, a lot is not necessary. By the way, what systems shoot at 500 km?
                  4. Professor
                    Professor April 6 2016 12: 42
                    -4
                    Quote: Spade
                    Transparent?
                    Have an ambient temperature? (let me remind you that the not new Javelin has enough difference of half a degree to capture)
                    Have less EPR than 81 mm mines?

                    Not contrasted in either the visible or thermal spectra. EPR. Beside this, a radio-transparent material of the case.

                    Quote: Spade
                    No, knocking down is getting easier and easier.

                    Shamanov has gone into politics? wink
                  5. Lopatov
                    Lopatov April 6 2016 13: 02
                    +4
                    Quote: Professor
                    Not contrasted in either the visible or thermal spectra.

                    Certainly. For example, the Javelin is capable of capturing a tank in position. With the engine not running. Simply because the sun heats it differently than the surrounding grass. But to capture the UAV, its capabilities are no longer enough.
                    Well, for sure, there is a secret agreement under which the destruction of the drone is a war crime fellow

                    Quote: Professor
                    Shamanov has gone into politics?

                    Are you sure that since August 2008 not a single UAV has been shot down in the world?

                    By the way, about Shamanov already begins to strain ...
                  6. Operator
                    Operator April 6 2016 13: 11
                    -1
                    With the heat of the Israeli UAV from Nagorno-Karabakh
                    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0H6ljLkiglc
                  7. Professor
                    Professor April 6 2016 13: 16
                    -1
                    Quote: Spade
                    Certainly. For example, the Javelin is capable of capturing a tank in position. With the engine not running. Simply because the sun heats it differently than the surrounding grass. But to capture the UAV, its capabilities are no longer enough.

                    When the drone has thermal mass from the tank then everything will be fine, and while the drone is several orders of magnitude smaller than the tank, the distance for its capture must be reduced by these orders only to the 4th degree.

                    Quote: Spade
                    Well, for sure, there is a secret agreement under which the destruction of the drone is a war crime

                    There is no such agreement, only the objective laws of physics make this occupation not as trivial as it might seem at first glance.

                    Quote: Spade
                    Are you sure that since August 2008 not a single UAV has been shot down in the world?

                    A lot has been shot down, including Karabakh today. But on the other hand, the drones have since bred and become insolent.

                    Quote: Spade
                    By the way, about Shamanov already begins to strain ...

                    This is se la vi. Words can not be erased from a song. This will go to the pantheon forever as well as the statement of the Minister of Culture about the extra chromosome. hi
                  8. Lopatov
                    Lopatov April 6 2016 15: 13
                    +4
                    Quote: Professor
                    When the drone will have thermal mass

                    New joke 8))) I see. The assertion of the Americans about the possibility of the Javelin's defeat of the bunker directly into the embrasure will be considered a lie from today. It's impossible.

                    In general, an interesting thing. For example, an Israeli drone on the background of the earth was able to recognize the corpse of a dead person. However, against the sky, a drone, which in fact is larger, cannot be recognized. Something does not fit here ... One of the statements is false.


                    Quote: Professor
                    A lot has been shot down, including Karabakh today.

                    They lie, you bastards !!!! After all, "Shamans" (c). UAVs are invulnerable

                    Quote: Professor
                    This is se la vi. Words you can’t erase from a song

                    But some people regularly throw these words out of a song.

                    By the way, I want to introduce another portion of Ukrainian lies and computer graphics:


                    The defeat of the UAV by the old, not modernized Soviet Strela-10 complex? Lies!
                    Because ... "Shamans" (c) !!!
                  9. Professor
                    Professor April 6 2016 19: 42
                    +2
                    Quote: Spade
                    New joke 8))) I see. The assertion of the Americans about the possibility of the Javelin's defeat of the bunker directly into the embrasure will be considered a lie from today. It's impossible.

                    Do not pull the owl on the globe. The thermal mass of the tank and the drone is simply not comparable. When Javelin can knock out a drone like Orbitrera then we’ll talk.

                    Quote: Spade
                    In general, an interesting thing. For example, an Israeli drone on the background of the earth was able to recognize the corpse of a dead person. However, against the sky, a drone, which in fact is larger, cannot be recognized. Something does not fit here ... One of the statements is false.

                    Tell us how he identified the corpse? wink

                    Quote: Spade
                    They lie, you bastards !!!! After all, "Shamans" (c). UAVs are invulnerable

                    Shamanov screwed up and publicly admitted it. By the way, the drones themselves are not falling badly and the operators are ruining them. For example, the Germans in Afghanistan dropped almost all of their drones.

                    Quote: Spade
                    By the way, I want to introduce another portion of Ukrainian lies and computer graphics:

                    And what should I see? Shooting in the sky, a flash and an allegedly shot down UFO?

                    Quote: Spade
                    The defeat of the UAV by the old, not modernized Soviet Strela-10 complex? Lies!
                    Because ... "Shamans" (c) !!!

                    Anything heavier than air will eventually fall to Earth. Drone is no exception. Drones shot down, shot down and will shoot down. And they will bring down more because there are more drones. however fighting drones is not a trivial thing. Especially with modern and promising small drones such as Raven or Sky Rider.
                  10. Lopatov
                    Lopatov April 6 2016 19: 58
                    0
                    Quote: Professor
                    Do not pull the owl on the globe.

                    Exactly. By the way, if you take the same "Spike" ... For example, at firing points or rooms from the depths of which fire is being fired, shouldn't it be used? All the same, after all, it will not capture ... But some "Baby" of the first generation can do it 8)))


                    Quote: Professor
                    Tell us how he identified the corpse?

                    Recognized. The words are similar, but their meaning is different. Especially in the context.


                    Quote: Professor
                    Shamanov screwed up and publicly admitted it.

                    "Fucked up" in the fact that the fathers-commanders of the units transferred to him for some reason forgot the "Arrows" that were already in service? And how could he influence this?

                    Quote: Professor
                    And what should I see? Shooting in the sky, a flash and an allegedly shot down UFO?

                    Ukrainian lies. Because "Shamans" (c)! UAVs are invulnerable.


                    Quote: Professor
                    Drones shot down, shot down and will shoot down.

                    But what about "Shaman" (s)?
                  11. Professor
                    Professor April 6 2016 20: 41
                    +2
                    Quote: Spade
                    Exactly. By the way, if you take the same "Spike" ... For example, at firing points or rooms from the depths of which fire is being fired, shouldn't it be used? All the same, after all, it will not capture ... But some "Baby" of the first generation can do it 8)))

                    On Spike, not only the thermal imager is, but it does not change the matter. Spike will not be able to capture an equal type drone; neither thermal mass nor optical contrast will suffice. Baby is even less likely to shoot down a drone.

                    Quote: Spade

                    Recognized. The words are similar, but their meaning is different. Especially in the context.

                    How to recognize? wink More specifically !!!

                    Quote: Spade
                    "Fucked up" in the fact that the fathers-commanders of the units transferred to him for some reason forgot the "Arrows" that were already in service? And how could he influence this?

                    He screwed up the fact that enemy drones circled his paratroopers with impunity, and by the way he was not the last person there.

                    Quote: Spade
                    Ukrainian lies. Because "Shamans" (c)! UAVs are invulnerable.

                    Hello to Shamanov. In the video I did not see the drone being shot down.

                    Quote: Spade
                    But what about "Shaman" (s)?

                    And he is known to have screwed up, but we believe him. Moreover, he will soon become a successful Russian politician. Classic. crying
  • IS-80
    IS-80 April 6 2016 09: 31
    0
    Quote: atalef
    Not flexible? expensive?

    Yes exactly.
    Quote: Spade
    Rather, the past is behind them. Dead end branch.

    So Comrade Lopatov agrees with me.
    1. Lopatov
      Lopatov April 6 2016 10: 03
      +6
      You just need to be aware of one simple thing ...
      For example, we have a good reconnaissance UAV. This is ideal. It is the most versatile, it is capable of directing air strikes, cannon and rocket artillery, missilemen, the fleet in the end (hehe, the notorious "Caliber"). And even the Spike NLOS complexes so beloved by the Israelis.

      In order to make it a hit, we will have to severely curtail its intelligence capabilities. For high-precision ammunition, that's a nuisance, still carry weight. We put rockets, we remove some kind of radar. Or we replace the optical reconnaissance complex with a lighter one, but at the same time having less accuracy, fewer operating ranges, and a shorter reconnaissance range. But still it is still tactically acceptable. For only artillery has a response time at the level of response time of a strike "drone" when it uses its own weapons.

      The next step is to make it BB. It will be the same strike UAV with limited reconnaissance capabilities. But plus everything, we limit his tactical capabilities. Only one purpose, only one application. Like a kamikaze. Only in this case there is no particular need for such sacrifices.
      1. The comment was deleted.
      2. atalef
        atalef April 6 2016 11: 16
        -4
        Quote: Spade
        The next step is to make it BB. It will be the same strike UAV with limited reconnaissance capabilities.

        Impact UAV is orders of magnitude more expensive and has limited ammunition.
        BB can be sent in dozens, including against air defense systems.
        An UAV is a pity, this one is not, its task is to perish and destroy.
        Quote: Spade
        one purpose, only one application. Like a kamikaze.

        Of course, these are not hundreds and thousands of shells per target. One important goal. one BB, comicadze. The worst weapon, the worst in its accuracy. mind and gravity to defend against it.
        Quote: Spade
        In the complete absence of opposition from the enemy

        Is it so easy to destroy it?
        Quote: Spade
        BB will not be able to remain invisible

        They cannot, only destroy it.
        Quote: Spade
        In normal armed conflicts, much less occurring between relatives of those. level armies, BB is impossible to apply

        Well then in Karabakh they used it. And there, like that, and air defense are in the S-300.
        1. Lopatov
          Lopatov April 6 2016 12: 35
          +4
          Quote: atalef
          Impact UAV is orders of magnitude more expensive and has limited ammunition.

          But you can use it more than once, it will pay off

          Quote: atalef
          BB can be sent in dozens, including against air defense systems.

          Conventional UAVs too.

          Quote: atalef
          Is it so easy to destroy it?

          Yeah. And every year it will be possible to make everything easier.

          Quote: atalef
          Well then in Karabakh they used it. And there, like that, and air defense are in the S-300.

          And in our country, all the generals are scolded for "preparing for the past wars" ...

          One cannot be sure that the development of countermeasures will be stopped. Even among various kinds of marginals. Suffice it to compare ground battles with the Taliban during the beginning of the occupation of Afghanistan and the current hostilities against ISIS. On the modern "anti-Papuan" battlefield, the Papuans are armed not only with an old AK. ATGM and MANPADS are already like mud. As well as modern means of communication and control.

          If earlier the barmalei mortar was enough to realize which direction to shoot and, with a bite of a finger, introduce corrections to the wind, now the latest achievements of consumer electronics are at his disposal
          1. The comment was deleted.
          2. atalef
            atalef April 6 2016 12: 47
            +1
            Quote: Spade
            But you can use it more than once, it will pay off

            What about time? Does the same pay off?

            Quote: Spade
            Conventional UAVs too.

            Harder, more expensive
            Quote: Spade
            Yeah. And every year it will be possible to make everything easier.

            That's when it will be, then we'll talk while the BB is applied and successfully
            Quote: Spade
            If earlier the barmalei mortar was enough to realize which direction to shoot and, with a bite of a finger, introduce corrections to the wind, now the latest achievements of consumer electronics are at his disposal

            Of course, if earlier to destroy a moving target 100 km from the front, it was necessary to involve hundreds of people and a reconnaissance group. now one BB is enough.
            1. Lopatov
              Lopatov April 6 2016 13: 07
              +2
              Quote: atalef
              What about time? Does the same pay off?

              Time? Uh ... And what side is it here?
              Over time, the number of BB "in service" during the conduct of hostilities is reduced much faster than the number of conventional UAVs?

              Quote: atalef
              Harder, more expensive

              More effective, allow repeated use

              Quote: atalef
              That's when it will be, then we'll talk

              Then it will be too late to speak. The time will come to look at the stacks of unnecessary BBs and scratch the back of your head ... With a dumb question, "where to put them now?"
            2. atalef
              atalef April 6 2016 13: 19
              +2
              Quote: Spade
              Time? Uh ... And what side is it here?

              Time? Found - destroyed. faster and more reliable. than discovered. pointed. but they’ve already got there - they didn’t.
              , the column is gone - not gone. hid in a shelter, etc.
              Quote: Spade
              Over time, the number of BB "in service" during the conduct of hostilities is reduced much faster than the number of conventional UAVs?

              They are produced at the level of conventional ammunition-missiles
              Quote: Spade
              More effective, allow repeated use

              Time is money.
              Quote: Spade
              Then it will be too late to speak. The time will come to look at the stacks of unnecessary BBs and scratch the back of your head ... With a dumb question, "where to put them now?"

              That's when it comes - then we'll talk, but for now. nothing to shoot down, I understand correctly?
            3. Lopatov
              Lopatov April 6 2016 15: 31
              0
              Quote: atalef
              Time? Discovered - destroyed

              A reconnaissance drone, controlling artillery fire, will do this in the same time. And more than once. The shock drone is similar. Where is the advantage of BB?

              Quote: atalef
              They are produced at the level of conventional ammunition-missiles

              Is not a fact. They are produced at the level of sophisticated precision munitions.

              Quote: atalef
              Time is money.

              Here I am about that. While new warheads will reach the patrol area to replace the used ones, the reconnaissance drone will be able to work out a dozen more targets. And at the same time, one.

              Quote: atalef
              That's when it comes - then we'll talk, but for now. nothing to shoot down, I understand correctly?

              Are all videos posted on YouTube with downed UAVs considered computer graphics?
            4. atalef
              atalef April 6 2016 20: 45
              +1
              Quote: Spade
              A reconnaissance drone, controlling artillery fire, will do this in the same time. And more than once. The shock drone is similar. Where is the advantage of BB?

              convoy moves 50 km from the front - your actions laughing
              Quote: Spade
              Here I am about that. While new warheads will reach the patrol area to replace the used ones, the reconnaissance drone will be able to work out a dozen more targets. And at the same time, one.

              For those who are in the tank, a drone has scanned 50 km from the front - you, Comrade Lopatov, quietly smoke bamboo with your artillery
              Quote: Spade
              Are all videos posted on YouTube with downed UAVs considered computer graphics?

              No, but what will you shoot down when the column on the march - did not answer.
        2. atalef
          atalef April 6 2016 13: 19
          +1
          Quote: Spade
          Time? Uh ... And what side is it here?

          Time? Found - destroyed. faster and more reliable. than discovered. pointed. but they’ve already got there - they didn’t.
          , the column is gone - not gone. hid in a shelter, etc.
          Quote: Spade
          Over time, the number of BB "in service" during the conduct of hostilities is reduced much faster than the number of conventional UAVs?

          They are produced at the level of conventional ammunition-missiles
          Quote: Spade
          More effective, allow repeated use

          Time is money.
          Quote: Spade
          Then it will be too late to speak. The time will come to look at the stacks of unnecessary BBs and scratch the back of your head ... With a dumb question, "where to put them now?"

          That's when it comes - then we'll talk, but for now. nothing to shoot down, I understand correctly?
  • tovarich67
    tovarich67 April 7 2016 20: 50
    0
    fox and grape
  • Lopatov
    Lopatov April 6 2016 09: 24
    +1
    Quote: atalef
    For BB - the future

    Rather, the past is behind them. Dead end branch.

    Quote: atalef
    the ability to control the territory up to 500 km depth

    With the complete absence of opposition from the enemy. Only here is not the fact that it will be so.
    What are the trends?
    Strengthening control over the situation on the battlefield. In addition to the air defense system, C-RAM radars appear that carry out warning to ground units about missile and artillery attacks. Plus optics. Plus electronic intelligence. Plus, developing troop control systems ... BBs cannot remain invisible.
    Accordingly, they will notice, they will amaze. In addition to the already existing air defense system of the battlefield, funds appear that are designed to combat high-precision weapons, artillery shells / mines, unmanned aerial vehicles.

    And here the main problem of the barrage of ammunition pops up in full growth:
    - It is not economically profitable to use BB in "anti-Papuan" wars. Where the best option is conventional UAVs, aviation, incl. specialized artillery that carries out fire impact on their target designation. That is, they are redundant for "stabilization operations".
    - In normal armed conflicts, even more so between those close to those. level by armies, BB cannot be used. Even as a "day one weapon", because there is evidence of the creation of systems parallel to the air defense system, practically not participating in the struggle for air supremacy ("C-RAM, C-UAV and Counter Cruise-Missile")
    1. sa-ag
      sa-ag April 6 2016 17: 52
      0
      Quote: Spade
      In addition to the air defense system, C-RAM radars appear,

      "... Portable, launched from a launch container, autonomous system equipped with a passive homing head to the source of electromagnetic radiation"

      "Bang, and no Lady Magpies" (C)
  • Kronos07
    Kronos07 April 6 2016 09: 36
    0
    Israeli-made kamikaze drone spotted in Nagorno-Karabakh conflict
  • VSkilled
    VSkilled April 6 2016 10: 47
    +1
    For BB - the future ...

    "So I beg you ..." ©

    Weapons of deterrence "Papuans", no more. Convenient form of "cutting" the military budget.

    Bo, a robotic cannon with video guidance (these are ALREADY used to neutralize anti-ship missiles), will shoot down this slow "wunderwolf" at once.

    Yeah ... Also, on the approaches to the guarded object.

    And no "fancy" software is required, such as "pattern recognition" - shoot everything that flies.
  • Operator
    Operator April 6 2016 12: 46
    0
    Barrage ammunition is a cut in the budget of potential opponents, so we can only thank their manufacturers for the significant contribution they make to strengthening the military potential of the Russian Federation laughing

    The near future of fire support systems on the battlefield is a reconnaissance and strike complex consisting of a flock of consumable UAVs (bird-sized target designators) and a guided missile launcher based on Grada or Smerch.
    1. Lopatov
      Lopatov April 6 2016 13: 14
      0
      Quote: Operator
      The near future of fire support systems on the battlefield - reconnaissance-strike complex

      It is necessary to leave the hand. This is also a dead end branch.

      The future lies with a set of reconnaissance equipment that will transmit information to the automated command and control system, which will already use a complex of weapons to directly support units on the battlefield.
      1. Operator
        Operator April 6 2016 13: 34
        0
        I am only for - network-centricity rules.

        It’s just that in the article under discussion various types of drones are stated, so I focused on a promising differentiating approach:
        separately flies - reconnaissance and target designation facilities (as small as possible and cheap UAVs with a thermal imager and laser target designator on board);
        Separately cutlets - fire strike means (launchers of guided missiles with laser seekers).

        And the Israel Defense Forces let them at their own expense save up a bunch of tuev BBs in warehouses - super-expensive analogues of 120-mm adjustable mines laughing
        1. Lopatov
          Lopatov April 6 2016 15: 40
          +1
          Quote: Operator
          the most small and cheap UAVs with a thermal imager and a laser target designator on board

          And here is the problem. If the laser designator, then digital stabilization can not do.

          And so you are right, the system is more effective than individual well-clever ammunition ...
  • Full name
    Full name April 6 2016 17: 49
    0
    This review can not be called complete because in it they forgot to mention the latest BB model
    But seriously, it seems to me that the interlocutors are slightly trolling you about the absolute hopelessness of the BB.
  • Operator
    Operator April 6 2016 21: 43
    -1
    Subtle Harop the size of a "Zhiguli" laughing
  • voyaka uh
    voyaka uh April 6 2016 17: 23
    +4
    "5) Vulnerable control channel" ///

    BB were born as "radar killers". They were invented for
    strikes on air defense radars. Moreover, he has completely
    autonomous mode, without operator.
    He himself detects an active radar and attacks it.

    Now the use of BB has been expanded, it turned out to be practical
    piece for striking any important target.
    Even some CDs turn into BB - writes circles,
    while the enemy hid. He got out of the shelter - received.
    The case is lightweight - plastic, enough fuel for a long time, electronics
    weighs almost nothing.
  • PKK
    PKK 31 July 2016 15: 19
    0
    Such a BB can drive in the field like a hare. And it’s bad when someone else’s BB starts circling over your checkpoint.
  • PKK
    PKK 31 July 2016 15: 19
    0
    Such a BB can drive in the field like a hare. And it’s bad when someone else’s BB starts circling over your checkpoint.
  • IS-80
    IS-80 April 6 2016 08: 43
    +4
    Quote: qwert
    And where is the barrage of ammunition from Russia? Where are our nanotechnologies? Where is our Skolkovo?

    Why is it needed? We need strike and reconnaissance drones. Why do we need such a disposable drone. So you can’t save any money.
    1. Gray brother
      Gray brother April 6 2016 08: 55
      0
      Quote: IS-80
      So you can’t save any money.

      Ayzer such were bought now "control" the territory of Nagorno-Karabakh.

      Well, straight in general, "quiet, smart, inconspicuous" - healthy crap flies and buzzes like a fly that has eaten a secondary product. lol
      1. Professor
        Professor April 6 2016 10: 38
        +3
        Quote: Gray Brother
        Well, straight in general, "quiet, smart, inconspicuous" - healthy crap flies and buzzes like a fly that has eaten up a secondary product

        1. Flying? Did you complete the task? wink
        2. See how the electrically driven Orbiter buzzes.
        3. Drones are already printing on 3D printers. I am a witness to that. Just about they will become very cheap - consumables.
        1. Gray brother
          Gray brother April 6 2016 11: 21
          +2
          Quote: Professor
          1. Flying? Did you complete the task?

          "Bach" is not to be heard, most likely it is skerry in the folds of the terrain so that they would not be shot down from the shooter.
          2. See how the electrically driven Orbiter buzzes.

          I am not able to see the sound. smile
          3. Drones are already printing on 3D printers.

          Print engine, optics, electronics - yes?
          1. Professor
            Professor April 6 2016 11: 30
            -1
            Quote: Gray Brother
            Print engine, optics, electronics - yes?

            Ага. wink Pay special attention to the current price of a computer with a camera, satellite navigator, accelerometer, gyroscope, thermometer, wireless connection- iPhone. There are options and easier. For some kind of ridiculous 7 hundred American rubles, a drone with motors, controllers, a communication system and high-resolution optics.
            1. Gray brother
              Gray brother April 6 2016 12: 09
              +2
              Quote: Professor
              For some kind of ridiculous 7 hundred American rubles, a drone with motors, controllers, a communication system and high-resolution optics.

              And then it starts - I want a thermal imager, I want noise immunity, I want more payload, I want more range (the electric motor no longer rolls) and the price will climb up.
              But I do not need to show these soap dishes, they do the same for me next to the house.
              http://uvs.yurion.ru/
              1. Professor
                Professor April 6 2016 12: 35
                +1
                Quote: Gray Brother
                And then it starts - I want a thermal imager, I want noise immunity, I want more payload, I want more range (the electric motor no longer rolls) and the price will climb up.

                Thermal imagers are already setting the same Phantoms. And flirovye. Let the price rise 10, 20 times. It's still a one-time cheap thing.

                Quote: Gray Brother
                But I do not need to show these soap dishes, they do the same for me next to the house.

                No, they don’t. On Phantom, a camera with a resolution of 4K at 30 frames per second or 1080p at 120. Show me on which your military drone has a similar camera? wink
                1. Gray brother
                  Gray brother April 6 2016 12: 37
                  -2
                  Quote: Professor
                  No, they don’t.

                  To find out what they are doing there, you must first download the price list.
                  And then without looking at once: "do not do it" tongue
                  1. Professor
                    Professor April 6 2016 12: 46
                    0
                    Quote: Gray Brother
                    To find out what they are doing there, you must first download the price list.
                    And then immediately without looking: "do not do it

                    From the fact that I give them my personal data they will have a FAB with CMOS matrix production technology with a resolution of 4k? wink
                    1. Gray brother
                      Gray brother April 6 2016 12: 57
                      -1
                      Quote: Professor
                      will they have a FAB with CMOS matrix technology with a resolution of 4k?

                      Why do they need it?
                      I'm talking about technology, not about your personal data.
                      They will buy and deliver.
                    2. Professor
                      Professor April 6 2016 13: 05
                      0
                      Quote: Gray Brother
                      They will buy and deliver.

                      And then they are the maximum collectAnd not делать. And when they put these bourgeois cameras on the military kamikaze drones, then the evil bourgeois will stop the supply of these components ... hi
                    3. Gray brother
                      Gray brother April 6 2016 13: 10
                      -1
                      Quote: Professor
                      And then they collect the maximum,

                      Any complex technique, to one degree or another, is COLLECTED.
                      Even your favorite iPhone.
        2. IS-80
          IS-80 April 6 2016 13: 39
          0
          Quote: Professor
          Yeah. Pay special attention to the current price of a computer with a camera, satellite navigator, accelerometer, gyroscope, thermometer, wireless connection- iPhone. There are options and easier. For some kind of ridiculous 7 hundred American rubles, a drone with motors, controllers, a communication system and high-resolution optics.

          Professor, what exactly did you write? It's just that this is some kind of childhood that is somewhat unexpected from you. what
          1. Professor
            Professor April 6 2016 14: 30
            +1
            Quote: IS-80
            Professor, what exactly did you write? It's just that this is some kind of childhood that is somewhat unexpected from you.

            Yeah, childhood. request Type of weapon is made by adults, and children by gadgets. Elon Musk was also laughed at first. Now no one is laughing.
            1. IS-80
              IS-80 April 6 2016 14: 53
              0
              Quote: Professor
              Elon Musk was also laughed at first.

              Professor, and this intensely publicized Musk has nothing to do with it? They also found a standard for which to equal. what The genius of the unrecognized and misunderstood by all. smile
              Quote: Professor
              Yeah, childhood.

              I said so because it’s rather strange to compare the production of weapons with the production of any flying plastic nonsense.
              1. Professor
                Professor April 6 2016 19: 50
                +2
                Quote: IS-80
                Professor, and this intensely publicized Musk has nothing to do with it? They also found a standard for which to equal. The genius of the unrecognized and misunderstood by all.

                And despite the fact that if anyone wants to stamp millions of kamikaze drones, then no one can stop him. Just as they could not prevent the amateur from making the best-selling (by the way, $ 85) electric car from scratch. Everyone laughed at, from Ford to Nisan. Now they don’t laugh. The same story with missiles.

                Quote: IS-80
                I said so because it’s rather strange to compare the production of weapons with the production of any flying plastic nonsense.

                Previously, the milstandard was the standard. Today, if I start working at work according to the Milstandard at work, then I will promptly be asked to leave the institution. And forever. Today, the commercial market requires significantly better quality than military standards define it. And manufacturers are able to provide this.

                PS
                His genius is recognized. hi
                1. IS-80
                  IS-80 April 6 2016 21: 25
                  -1
                  Quote: Professor
                  Just as they could not prevent the amateur from making the best-selling (by the way, $ 85) electric car from scratch.

                  Well, he did not design it himself and sawed it out with a jigsaw in a canonical garage. smile
                  Quote: Professor
                  Everyone laughed at, from Ford to Nisan.

                  Did you laugh too? Me not.
                  Quote: Professor
                  Previously, the milstandard was the standard. Today, if I start working at work according to the Milstandard at work, then I will promptly be asked to leave the institution. And forever. Today, the commercial market requires significantly better quality than military standards define it. And manufacturers are able to provide this.

                  And I think what they have with the F35 still does not work out. And here is how interesting it all turns out. smile
                  Here I have some doubts about the fact that the manufacturing quality of Chinese toy quadrocopters is higher than the manufacturing quality of military drones. And the fact that they are comparable in cost, I doubt it. No. And it depends on what standards, production standards of glock fm 78 and spike lr are probably somewhat different. hi
                  Quote: Professor
                  His genius is recognized.

                  And here the hell. I do not agree. smile
                2. Professor
                  Professor April 7 2016 06: 55
                  +2
                  Quote: IS-80
                  Well, he did not design it himself and sawed it out with a jigsaw in a canonical garage.

                  Not yourself? Of course myself. He created a company that created the most popular electric car from scratch. Neither General Motors nor Mercedes designed this device for him. His new car was ordered by more than 400 people in a week, paying a deposit of $ 000, while the car itself will cost about $ 1000, and no one knows the delivery time. "In about 35000 years."
                  Musk has built the world's largest battery factory. It is not only the largest building in the world in terms of area, but also the most "productive". This plant produces more batteries than all other factories in the world combined.
                  Renault, Peugeot and the rest nervously smoke on the sidelines. lol

                  Quote: IS-80
                  Did you laugh too? Me not.

                  I did not laugh because our company supplies him with equipment used in the manufacture of batteries and I saw how high his requirements are and how serious he is.

                  Quote: IS-80
                  And I think what they have with the F35 still does not work out. And here is how interesting it all turns out.
                  Here I have some doubts about the fact that the manufacturing quality of Chinese toy quadrocopters is higher than the manufacturing quality of military drones. And the fact that they are comparable in cost, I doubt it. And it depends on what standards, production standards of glock fm 78 and spike lr are probably somewhat different

                  The quality of consumer goods, even Chinese, is higher than the quality shown by the military for similar products. I'm talking about electronics. Our factory in China produces tools for the semiconductor industry. Over the last quarter, we received from customers an average of 7 complaints about the quality of our products per million delivered products. Of these, only 10% (7 per 10) were substantiated. Now let's open the MIL-STD-000 and see what the military demands on marriage. wink

                  Quote: IS-80
                  And here the hell. I do not agree.

                  Satisfies all Odessa, but he is not. laughing
                3. IS-80
                  IS-80 April 7 2016 10: 28
                  0
                  Quote: Professor
                  He created a company that from scratch created the most popular electric car.

                  This indicates his good organizational skills. But the car was not designed by him.
                  Quote: Professor
                  His new car was ordered by more than 400 people in a week, paying a deposit of $ 000, while the car itself will cost about $ 1000, and no one knows the delivery time. "In about 35000 years."

                  Perhaps it should be impressive. smile
                  Quote: Professor
                  I did not laugh because our company supplies him with equipment used in the manufacture of batteries and I saw how high his requirements are and how serious he is.

                  You see, not only not all of them laughed at him, but at least two of us. smile
                  Quote: Professor
                  The quality of consumer goods, even Chinese, is higher than the quality shown by the military for similar products.

                  Probably we are using several different consumer goods. smile
                  Quote: Professor
                  Now let's open the MIL-STD-105 and see what the military demands on marriage.

                  Such quality control is respected. But your company does not do shovels. I wanted to read the description of the standard but could not find it in Russian. I take your word for it, again, as I said, this explains the problems with f35, apparently there is a large percentage of defective parts. Well, all the better for us, when they decide to attack us, they will wedge an attacker at the most inopportune moment.smile
                  Quote: Professor
                  Satisfies all Odessa

                  But Rabinovich is against it! hi
  • Denimax
    Denimax April 6 2016 09: 38
    +3
    BBs are optimally suited for the Ukrainian DB scenario (gunsmiths react). Let's say that an artillery battery is beating from somewhere, the area is known, and where the target itself is not known. And then the calculation starts the BB, finds this battery and hits not the guns, but the ammunition boxes, detonation will destroy the entire battery.
    1. Lopatov
      Lopatov April 6 2016 10: 22
      +1
      Quote: Denimax
      detonation will destroy the entire battery.

      Has the enemy helpfully stacked them into one stack? This is trite uncomfortable. Not to mention the fact that counter-battery struggle appeared back in World War I. And with it ammunition cellars (one per gun) and shell niches in the trenches.
      1. Denimax
        Denimax April 6 2016 10: 35
        +6
        Well, not all, the main part on tractor trucks, and it’s going to hit them. And the batteries are better not to take long-term positions, it is better to be as mobile as possible.
        Quote: Spade
        Not to mention the fact that counter-battery struggle appeared back in World War I.

        Your guns may not be at hand. And here the calculation in a couple of people, on a motorbike with a cradle (roughly speaking) can get it point and far.
        1. Lopatov
          Lopatov April 6 2016 12: 40
          +1
          You did not understand. No "own guns". The ammunition is stored at the fire station in such a way that it is simply impossible to disable the battery with "one blow and detonation".

          And so everything is arranged since the First World War.
  • srha
    srha April 6 2016 12: 11
    +2
    Yes, it is necessary, it is not necessary ... There is no such thing as a little ammunition, sometimes there is no more carrying away. And what kind of ammunition does this type of UAV replace?

    For me, a flying grenade of 20-500 meters with the possibility of turning around a corner is a funky thing, if it starts like a dove from a hand, it’s neither big nor expensive.

    And here the lack of a review appears - there are no prices, there is no analysis of practical application, there is no analysis of countermeasures.

    By the way, tell me, such a deadly thing hangs above you at an altitude of 300 meters, bites in your direction - can you conduct military operations?
  • stone
    stone April 6 2016 12: 24
    +1
    For the Armenians, in my opinion, the use of Kharopov against them was an unpleasant surprise.
  • Artyom
    Artyom April 6 2016 13: 47
    +1
    How right here some noticed B. B. good where there are no electronic warfare systems! And if it is present, then everything that is induced through the radio channel turns into a bunch of garbage! You will see soon in Karabakh the wind will blow, something like Kraukha. Then we’ll laugh too!
  • Operator
    Operator April 6 2016 14: 05
    0
    Here she is, beautiful (in the background, naturally laughing ): MLRS 9K515 "Tornado-S" - launcher of Russian "drones" (guided missiles)
  • 31rus2
    31rus2 April 6 2016 18: 56
    +1
    Dear, I read the comments, but there is already real reconciliation, the headquarters of the Armenian forces have been destroyed, it’s with such a drone, here’s the opportunity, besides launching a bunch of such Drones, you can open the air defense system, and let the portable ones for sabotage of protected objects gone
  • psiho117
    psiho117 April 6 2016 19: 04
    +1
    It seems to me that the BB fell into the same trap as the MPE - initially a massive and cheap model was conceived, and the result was expensive for specific purposes.
    Well, two dozen BBs cannot be more effective than a pair of reconnaissance + SAU \ MLRS division, but at a price they will come out more expensive and more vulnerable.
    And all the tales of our Jewish "partners" about the supposedly invisible \ invulnerable \ deadly \ and ubiquitous BB I add to the piggy bank to the all-weather ultra-long-range terawat lasers, which open spaces from year to year "are about to be on alert" and everyone will be shot down.

    It seems that the Jews have created another golden calf, and now they are praying intensely for it bully
  • demiurg
    demiurg April 6 2016 20: 46
    +1
    Okay, drones are invulnerable. And how smart is their GOS? If brains weigh a kilogram, how will they decide on an attack? Beat everything that moves? There is no need to compare it with petr and zur; it is their choice of purpose that the operator makes. Even with cassettes of homing elements it is difficult to compare, they scan a small sector of the surface, and there is no question of any signatures embedded in the memory.
    There will be no mass use of drones. Once they begin to pose a serious threat, opposition will appear. Single attacks are possible, nothing more.
    I wonder if it is realistic to make a microdron that will be aimed at a radio signal? Just knowing the frequency at which information is exchanged, you can launch the same eagle with weapons.
  • demiurg
    demiurg April 6 2016 20: 53
    0
    Quote: Denimax
    BBs are optimally suited for the Ukrainian DB scenario (gunsmiths react). Let's say that an artillery battery is beating from somewhere, the area is known, and where the target itself is not known. And then the calculation starts the BB, finds this battery and hits not the guns, but the ammunition boxes, detonation will destroy the entire battery.

    And he finds the boxes? And determines that these boxes are full, with shells? Very smart drone however.
    And if you control it by radio, then while the drone reaches 20-30 kilometers to the battery, you can direct anything to the signal, from artillery to aviation.
  • estixnumx
    estixnumx April 6 2016 21: 55
    +3
    They had already met Israeli drones from their warheads. A small, only loss hit the bus with volunteers from Sisyan. 7 others were dead; 40 people were traveling on the bus with a slight shock. This is a special operations weapon such as a terrorist in a car bang. The dynamic armor of the crew tried to knock out the tank like that a little deaf. Plus one man shot down a guy from 2 bastards, he went too low, then put out, the charge for some reason did not work. More problems brought drones corrector together with hail. Our electronic warfarers worked effectively with them, and the Americans spoiled GPS gave an error of 5 km in the territory of Karabakh.
    1. Operator
      Operator April 6 2016 22: 29
      -1
      +100500

      And what about the video from Azerbaijani UAVs about allegedly killing Karabakh tanks in caponiers (using armor-piercing bombs)?

      1. Oleg7700
        Oleg7700 April 7 2016 16: 03
        +2
        There are different opinions ... Some believe that the Israeli EXTPA has deployed a warhead with anti-tank cassettes of the "shock core" type over the position, while others are waning again for Spike NLOS. He has 25 km. maximum range and top-down engagement mode.
    2. Oleg7700
      Oleg7700 April 7 2016 15: 52
      +2
      Gentlemen! If HAROP really hit this bus with a 23 (!) Kg warhead (and not 15 kg like the "Harpy") and even with a cloud of tungsten striking elements, there would be minced meat, not wounded ... , it looks like SPIKE NLOS, consider those who really use these things ...
  • Alexez
    Alexez April 7 2016 17: 40
    +1
    A serious battle turned to look. Well, then my 2 kopecks was a BB at a cost much cheaper than a tank or an armored personnel carrier, so its effectiveness even in a war with the Papuans, who incidentally also ride on various armored vehicles, is quite normal. And why are you so driven - the basis for statistics and analysis is too small.
    The question is about autonomous systems - but doesn’t it accidentally hit its own?
    1. voyaka uh
      voyaka uh April 12 2016 18: 16
      0
      If below are two tanks nearby - one and a stranger, then
      a drone in autonomous flight may well hit its own way.
      To avoid this, it is necessary to install "friend or foe" sensors on the equipment
      (and give them to platoon-company commanders, and in the future, to each soldier).
      The likelihood of fire seriously restrains the spread of
      military robot technology.