Military Review

Defense Ministry is looking for developers who are able to create highly mobile multikopter

119
The Main Directorate of Research Activities of the Ministry of Defense has developed requirements for multi-rotor drones, reports TASS With reference to the newspaper "Izvestia".




“The basic requirements of the Ministry of Defense for multikopter are as follows: the ability to work more than 1,5 hours at temperatures from plus to minus 30 degrees, load capacity from 1 to 30 kg of payload, depending on the tasks. The copter should fly in the “radio silence” mode, in automatic mode, ”the newspaper quotes the words of the head of the department, Roman Kordyukov.

“We are starting to study multicopter-type vehicles, which have high maneuverability at low speeds, vertical take-off and landing, a hang-up mode, and the possibility of automatic flight without operator participation along a predetermined route with the possibility of independent landing at a given point,” he said.

Anyone can participate in the contest. “It is important for us that the candidate pass our initial tests ... Cooperation with the Advanced Research Foundation (PFD) should allow us to find solutions that suit us. The foundation pays for the creation of devices, ”explained Kordyukov.

The ministry will determine the winners and start individual work with them. Speech about weapons for the UAV is not yet.

“There are a lot of offers, but there are only a few real samples of equipment that could meet our objectives,” the head of the department admitted.
Photos used:
http://vilingstore.net
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  1. tiredwithall
    tiredwithall 28 March 2016 15: 39
    +4
    They don’t give money for development - they want to buy something ready. Competently.
    1. St Petrov
      St Petrov 28 March 2016 15: 47
      +6
      "The Ministry of Defense is looking for developers" - that means they will find them.

      When the Moscow Region will seek funds to raise salaries at the research institute and allocate apartments to young scientists. That is the question. There will be a salary - no need to search. Only select from the queue.

      The FSB, the Ministry of Internal Affairs, doctors, teachers - raised the RFP, but they have not yet reached the scientists. Not an order.

      Rogozin seems to be saying that they will raise, but things are still there.

      1. family tree
        family tree 28 March 2016 16: 00
        +2
        Quote: s-t Petrov
        There will be a salary - no need to search

        Well, what you, what a salary, they don’t even invest in the development of a denyuzhku. Purely hope that a freebie trample. Only, after all, the time is not the beginning of the last century, when all and sundry, invented tanks and planes
      2. Ivan Tucha
        Ivan Tucha 28 March 2016 16: 05
        +7
        in which place doctors and especially teachers raised sn?
        otherwise, of course, I agree, researchers should be provided "inside and out" in this matter.
        1. guzik007
          guzik007 28 March 2016 16: 25
          +3
          in what place to doctors
          -------------------------
          How, how so! the last time already two years ago, as much as three hundred rubles!
        2. St Petrov
          St Petrov 28 March 2016 18: 30
          +1
          a doctor in our village hospital receives for 100 k.

          + young specialists are given a house and a raising capital when leaving the village. It would be a desire.

          My mother-in-law is the head nurse in the hospital. So I am in the know. Maybe the situation is different in other areas - but everything is fine with the salary of doctors (I'm not talking about nurses, laundresses, etc.)

          And my mother is my teacher, now retired from 2010, but her last salary was 45-50 to. (State boarding school)

          You can compare what happened to their RFP before 2001 - then your sarcasm was in the topic) But I admit that in some areas the situation could be worse, I repeat.

          Although now the military is not a problem to find, which salary does not suit.

      3. Altona
        Altona 28 March 2016 16: 12
        +2
        Quote: s-t Petrov
        When the Moscow Region will seek funds to raise salaries at the research institute and allocate apartments to young scientists. That is the question. There will be a salary - no need to search. Only select from the queue.

        ---------------------
        The household issue for young brains is archived. On the other hand. There are several scientific and engineering centers in the country. In Novosibirsk, Tomsk, Moscow, the same Skolkovo finally. There are scientific and engineering teams with a production and computing base. They have the ability to calculate, prototype and manufacture a sample in their technology parks. Up to printing nodes on 3D printers. There are all kinds of engineers involved in robotics and servo drives. As I understand it, the point is to create all kinds of cardans and hinges for turning the blades in the image and likeness of Osprey. Why are there any tests if there is a ready-made task list and ready-made teams in the same Skolkovo that create unnecessary cyber vacuum cleaners? Some garbage ...
      4. Ros 56
        Ros 56 28 March 2016 21: 00
        +1
        Quote: s-t Petrov
        doctors, teachers - raised RFP


        Do not be afraid for shlopotat for these words from those who raised the RFP?
        Do not confuse head physicians and directors with the rest.
    2. SU69
      SU69 28 March 2016 15: 47
      +12
      Quote: tiredwithall
      They don’t give money for development - they want to buy something ready. Competently.

      then they are on Ali Baba. laughing
    3. Sweles
      Sweles 28 March 2016 15: 53
      -6
      there are no manoeuvrable multicopters, there are maneuverable helicopters, the most maneuverable helicopters are coaxial, contact Kamov, everything will be done there and 30 and 50 are all right, and multicopters are for the Americans ...
    4. Lopatov
      Lopatov 28 March 2016 16: 07
      +2
      Quote: tiredwithall
      They don’t give money for development - they want to buy something ready. Competently.

      Not quite.
      First, the "requirements", in order to weed out what is not suitable by default.
      Then a competition among those whose devices satisfy the military performance characteristics
      And finally, the winners of the competition will receive orders and begin to fulfill them.

      Because the main thing in specialized multicopters is the "brains", in particular, the programs that ensure their control. And the programs, for example, for the UAV-repeater are very different from the programs for the UAV-sapper.

      In short, it will not work for free.
      1. Corsair
        Corsair 28 March 2016 17: 44
        +1
        Quote: Spade
        Because the main thing in specialized multicopters is the "brains", in particular, the programs that ensure their control. And the programs, for example, for the UAV-repeater are very different from the programs for the UAV-sapper.

        And why do you need these multicopter? belay there are no fundamental differences from the movement of an ordinary helicopter, the design is more complicated due to the use of a large number of moving elements, I want to get a miracle — attach two tails to the usual helicopter scheme or, according to old designs (Yak-24, Mi-12), propellers with motors for wings or an elongated body, you can even twist and attach the coaxial screws to the wings.
        IMHO, multicopter is a kind of pampering - a transition period (dead end), because so far there has not been a single large real multicopter, and if they create it for some purpose, it will be a mega-expensive project with a huge number of potential problems in operation.
        1. gridasov
          gridasov 28 March 2016 18: 01
          0
          Correctly !!! Developing multicopter again and again to return to the helicopter. And again, various parameters will be simplified and measured. Therefore, the task is to break the proportional dependence, when purely energy processes will depend on both weight and fuel, and many other aggravating circumstances.
          1. Corsair
            Corsair 28 March 2016 18: 23
            0
            Quote: gridasov
            Therefore, the task is to break the proportional dependence, when purely energy processes will depend on both weight and fuel, and many other aggravating circumstances.

            what Are you already writing about antigravity? Or do you propose revising the laws of conservation of energy and other laws of physics?
            In my opinion, you can break the addiction only if you turn it off or learn how to reduce gravity, there are no other options yet.
            Or by creating propulsors / matter for which it is absolutely all the same to lift 5 g or 500 tons, at the same or similar costs.
            1. gridasov
              gridasov 28 March 2016 18: 46
              -2
              Nothing like that! Does the hydro-gas-dynamic medium have its own properties to transform? It has! Does it form flows and conditions of changes in the energy density in individual parts of the local space of these transformations? Forms! So you can manage these processes. That is what this is about. And by the way ! to achieve such a flux density and flow volume in order to create a supporting process for movement, the object freezes at significantly low energy costs and the scale of the propulsion. Talk about simple engineering solutions.
              1. Cat man null
                Cat man null 28 March 2016 19: 04
                0
                Quote: gridasov
                Does the hydro-gas-dynamic medium have its own properties to transform? It has!

                Transform? By her own? Let me not believe it?

                Quote: gridasov
                Does it form flows and conditions of changes in the energy density in individual parts of the local space of these transformations? Forms!

                Does not form. By itself - does not form.

                By the way, what is the "density of energy in separate areas of space", and what kind of energy is this?
                Quote: gridasov
                Talk about simple engineering solutions.

                Trepidation (s)
                1. gridasov
                  gridasov 28 March 2016 19: 17
                  0
                  I understand that you are really illiterate for a physicist, but still I will explain to others. You take a simple conical pipe. The external environment is calm (relatively blind and not understanding) Why does a natural flow of air or water form in this pipe? Well, already a foolish person will understand that inserting a narrow end into the ear is better audible than vice versa.
                  Why am I not talking about a perpetual motion machine? Because by increasing the process of acceleration of an object with my "turbine" initiated by a costly method, you can only get the effect of increasing the pressure and increasing the rotor speed, and hence the effect of the device on increasing energy output. Therefore, it is convenient to use high-speed e-mail. motors are asynchronous, but on windings not with turns, but of a new type (without self-induction effect) Who? Maybe me?
                  1. gridasov
                    gridasov 28 March 2016 19: 25
                    0
                    It’s a pity that the epithets were removed.
                  2. Cat man null
                    Cat man null 28 March 2016 19: 35
                    0
                    Quote: gridasov
                    I understand that you are really illiterate for a physicist

                    Yes, it’s you .. correctly noticed .. We are nerds, and from the plow just lol

                    Quote: gridasov
                    You take a simple conical pipe. The environment is calm outside. Why does a natural flow of air or water form in this pipe?

                    More details from the moment when "the stream is formed". Especially water wink

                    Quote: gridasov
                    convenient to use high-speed electric. motors - asynchronous, but on windings not with turns, but of a new type (without self-induction effect) Who? Maybe me?

                    You are exactly with the effect of self-induction .. on a new type of windings ..

                    (to himself): fractals, fractals .. where are the fractals?

                    Are you exactly that Gridasov that was a week ago? wink
        2. dauria
          dauria 28 March 2016 18: 49
          +1
          because there’s still not a single big real multicopter,


          Themselves answered - "big". All the advantage of "multi" is precisely in the size - the electric motor is up to 0.5 kW and the lithium battery can still compete with the internal combustion engine (more, it already loses). Plus the convenience of controlling only the engine speed - without any swash plates, (general and cyclic step control), servo mechanics and even without gearboxes. Simple and cheap while small. And with an increase in size, there will be an ass, and you will have to think about the efficiency of the screw - to make it large (and the only one), well, where can you go - a gearbox.
          A toy with no perspective. And already "development of hardware and software" in semi-handicraft offices, in any gate. Now, even obsessed fanatical modellers do not try to compete with the industrial equipment of serious companies.
          1. Lopatov
            Lopatov 28 March 2016 19: 20
            0
            Quote: dauria
            A toy without prospects.

            And you try to control the model of the helicopter and then compare with the multicopter.

            For small payloads, a quadcopter is preferable.
            For large, UAV helicopter type.

            You just need to develop both branches. And do not rape the brain with micro-helicopters and maximopters.
        3. Lopatov
          Lopatov 28 March 2016 19: 16
          0
          Quote: Corsair
          And why do you need these multicopter? there are no fundamental differences from the movement of a conventional helicopter, the design is more complicated

          On the contrary, the design of the quadcopter is simpler.
          No skew mechanisms, gearboxes ... Only engines and lifting screws.

          But all these advantages are reduced with the growth of the payload. If it is under a hundred, then the multicopter will come out too big, and here it is better helicopter UAVs.

          Each vegetable has its own garden.
    5. guzik007
      guzik007 28 March 2016 16: 23
      +4
      They don’t give money for development - they want to buy something ready.
      -------------------------------------------------- ---

      Clearly said:
      -------------------------------------------------- ------------

      It is important for us that the candidate passes our initial tests ..
      ------------------------------------------------------------

      the candidate must prove that he:
      1. Dragging on the topic
      2. Proves that it does not represent horns and hooves.
      3. Has scientific potential and at least some kind of production base at the beginning.

      And then he will get the money.

      The good news is that finally the military stopped burying money on the field of miracles, hoping for another wunderwafel
    6. Sura
      Sura 28 March 2016 16: 29
      +2
      In technical universities there is a subject for inventions, it comes up with a brainstorming session, when the scientists are busy, their eyes become blurred and come to a standstill, then completely different people from the street are invited, not even having any kind of education, the problem is outlined and invited to give the proposals, even the most absurd ones, the scientists write down everything and subsequently subject all the proposals to analysis, looking for a rational kernel of the problem. Decided, then do a brainstorm.
      1. gridasov
        gridasov 28 March 2016 16: 43
        0
        I don’t think so. that a person without systemic knowledge will be able to see and solve the problem as a complex task. Will explain. Many inventors are discovering some over-unit energy conversion possibilities. However, with full-scale working models there are a lot of unsolved problems. Their essence is. that there is no sequence in the algorithms for organizing processes, so that it is possible to collect only the positive aspects of each stage and ultimately what is needed. From here it is very difficult to invent something new if one does not move not to the invention of a new version based on the old fundamental principles, but to go one step deeper into the depth of the fundamental process itself. A simple person is not capable of this. You need to see the methodology of analysis of new and existing processes, as well as all this needs to be combined. Therefore, those who are at the helm of production and science cannot move inland. Stereotypes hinder them, and the amateur does not see a complex of problems that experts know about.
        1. Sura
          Sura 28 March 2016 17: 50
          +1
          I wrote that they teach in Vueach ... Is it possible that amateurs make up the teaching program?! ...
          1. gridasov
            gridasov 28 March 2016 19: 36
            -2
            Innovative developments relate to the educational process as well. Therefore, for analysis, and not just a statistical set of information, it is also necessary to teach young people to work with capacious ones. highly dynamically transformable and polarized information processes. Therefore, I call amateurs not those who do not know the essence of the problem and topic, but those who do not want to study and think of themselves as a specialist.
        2. Corsair
          Corsair 28 March 2016 17: 51
          +1
          Quote: gridasov
          I don’t think so. that a person without systemic knowledge will be able to see and solve the problem as a complex task. Will explain.

          laughing A person can’t solve the problem without preparation, but he’ll be able to invent a common prototype, even if it’s fantastic.
          Take, for example, "The Tale of the Silver Saucer and the Pouring Apple" - a fairy tale, but a modern analogue already exists - a TV set, a ball, a navigator pointing the way, etc. - there are many analogies. The main thing is to create an idea, but to bring it to the final stage and decide how exactly to implement this task of scientists, designers.
  2. Dimon19661
    Dimon19661 28 March 2016 15: 39
    +4
    Kovrov Research Institute "Signal" is developing a biomorphic (similar to an animal and moving on four legs) combat robot "Lynx". This RIA Novosti said the head of the enterprise Vladimir Shashok.

    “As part of one of the projects, the Lynx development work, we are creating a multifunctional biomorphic robotic complex. The robot will have four legs, that is, it will look like some kind of four-legged creature. The combat robot will most likely be equipped with a machine gun, it is possible to install anti-tank guided missiles, ”Shashok said.

    According to the assignment for an open competition on the subject “Basic platforms of mobile biomorphic robots” (part of the Rys-BP development center), the project should develop a platform for creating an average mobile biomorphic robot weighing up to 400 kilograms, capable of moving “including in difficult non-deterministic setting ”(conditional name BPMBR400). State tests of the sample are scheduled for 2019.

    According to the terms of reference, the following tasks are assigned to the machine: reconnaissance, transportation of ammunition and equipment, evacuation of dead and wounded from the battlefield, reconnaissance of mine-explosive barriers, as well as combat use with weapons. The speed of the machine on flat terrain is up to 15 kilometers per hour, on rough terrain - up to 10 kilometers per hour.

    The robot must be able to move in conditions of urban and industrial infrastructure (including destroyed) on concrete, asphalt, marble, wooden and unpaved sites and sites with a sand coating. It also provides for movement in icy conditions, on fallen leaves, on grass up to a meter high, snow up to 400 mm deep, in rain, on water-flooded surfaces up to 400 mm deep.

    The ability to overcome thresholds of up to 500 millimeters high, staircases of industrial buildings with an angle of inclination of up to 30 degrees and a step height of up to 200 millimeters, ditches up to 500 millimeters wide and walls up to 400 millimeters high and 300 millimeters wide is required.
  3. Mama_Cholli
    Mama_Cholli 28 March 2016 15: 39
    +13
    It is interesting what will happen if you connect 8 pcs. MI 26 with iron pipes and fly over the Baltic?
    The fact that it will be the largest multicopter in the world - is it clear what will happen to the Baltic states?
    1. Igor39
      Igor39 28 March 2016 15: 43
      +7
      The eclipse will be there laughing
      1. Mama_Cholli
        Mama_Cholli 28 March 2016 15: 44
        +2
        Quote: Igor39
        The eclipse will be there laughing

        If a plywood sheet is hung from below, then there will definitely be an eclipse ...
      2. The comment was deleted.
      3. tol100v
        tol100v 28 March 2016 15: 59
        +2
        Quote: Igor39
        The eclipse will be there

        And the eclipse will be caused by bowel movements!
        1. FenH
          FenH 28 March 2016 16: 02
          +2
          Quote: Tol100v
          And the eclipse will be caused by bowel movements!


          Probably right, not eclipse, but flooding hi
    2. Fregate
      Fregate 28 March 2016 15: 47
      +4
      In half a year we will hear: "What about ettttoo pyylllo?"
      1. Altona
        Altona 28 March 2016 16: 15
        +4
        Quote: Fregate
        In half a year we will hear: "What about ettttoo pyylllo?"

        ------------------
        The Estonian newspaper has recently published that "the Russian army is not quite combat-ready." I joked on Twitter that they are just 7-10 years late according to their long-standing tradition, so everything is fine, you just need to make an amendment for the time ... laughing
    3. family tree
      family tree 28 March 2016 15: 47
      +3
      Quote: Mama_Cholli
      It is interesting what will happen if you connect 8 pcs. MI 26 iron pipes

      Mom it's what tie with mushrooms, eight "cows" in a bundle, the globe will collapse, stumbling on the celestial axis belay
      1. Mama_Cholli
        Mama_Cholli 28 March 2016 15: 50
        +3
        Sorry, I was wrong ... (I realized that I wrote) the globe will blow away ...
    4. 33 Watcher
      33 Watcher 28 March 2016 15: 54
      +5
      Quote: Mama_Cholli
      It is interesting what will happen if you connect 8 pcs. MI 26 iron pipes


      belay This is on which side you need to think to start, to think of this before?
      laughing laughing laughing
      1. family tree
        family tree 28 March 2016 16: 14
        +2
        Quote: Observer 33
        belay This is on which side you need to think to start, to think of it before that?

        "I came out of the woods like that steam locomotive,
        Basket of mushrooms and cannabis cart "
        Not mine, they say, it sticks, but I'm better for vodka drinks
      2. Mama_Cholli
        Mama_Cholli 28 March 2016 16: 41
        +1
        Quote: Observer 33
        Quote: Mama_Cholli
        It is interesting what will happen if you connect 8 pcs. MI 26 iron pipes


        belay This is on which side you need to think to start, to think of this before?
        laughing laughing laughing

        "Russian people are strong in hindsight" ...
        (proverb)
        smile
    5. Uncle VasyaSayapin
      Uncle VasyaSayapin 28 March 2016 16: 09
      +2
      In the few hours that he will circle, they will not have time to notice anything.
      1. Abbra
        Abbra 28 March 2016 16: 17
        +1
        And if you don’t circle, but fly according to the task in a certain direction with a specific purpose? For example, you need to lose your money? Huh?
        1. family tree
          family tree 28 March 2016 21: 04
          0
          No, the coolest radar is the wife. From the conversation, calculate how much I drank, with an error plus minus half a liter
  4. avg-mgn
    avg-mgn 28 March 2016 15: 49
    +3
    Quote: Dimon19661
    Kovrov Research Institute "Signal" is developing a biomorphic (similar to an animal and moving on four legs) combat robot "Lynx".
    Tell me please, why the heck army biomorphic robots? Legs or other supports will require a sophisticated control system to synchronize when moving. itover rough terrain, and even with variable axial loads (for example, when fired). No need and stupidly reinvent the wheel or caterpillar.
    1. Dimon19661
      Dimon19661 28 March 2016 15: 55
      +2
      And who knows. The mattresses seem to have abandoned their goat. Our grandmas may want to clean up the grandmothers ...
    2. Lopatov
      Lopatov 28 March 2016 15: 56
      +2
      Quote: avg-mgn
      Tell me please, why the heck army biomorphic robots?

      For the war.

      For example, fights in the city. All of these tracked and wheeled vehicles are just good for training. In real conditions, their mobility will be as limited as possible.
  5. Siberia 9444
    Siberia 9444 28 March 2016 16: 01
    +4
    German enthusiasts are working on a manned multicopter. And here from 1 to 30 kg of payload lol клик
    1. FenH
      FenH 28 March 2016 16: 07
      +2
      Quote: Siberia 9444
      German enthusiasts are working on a manned multicopter. And here from 1 to 30 kg of payload lol клик

      Classy Wand Wafer good
    2. Ros 56
      Ros 56 28 March 2016 21: 06
      0
      The thing is of course Skoda, but with maneuverability she has to say bluntly, seams. Rather, the vertical maneuver is good, but in roll and direction, alas.
      1. amirbek
        amirbek 29 March 2016 15: 53
        0
        Quote: Ros 56
        A piece of course Skoda

        Oh, I know the name of this thing - "steep dive" laughing
  6. avg-mgn
    avg-mgn 28 March 2016 16: 02
    +2
    the ability to work more than 1,5 hours at temperatures from plus to minus 30 degrees, load capacity from 1 to 30 kg payload depending on the tasks.
    Here again, either the correspondent did not catch up, or some absurdity "from 1 to 30 kg"- if for a whole line of products (say, with a step in carrying capacity of 2-5-10Kg), this is one thing, but launching a fool capable of carrying 30Kg for a load of 1-2 Kg is idiocy. Something is wrong here!
  7. Mountain shooter
    Mountain shooter 28 March 2016 16: 06
    +2
    Here the Israelis have already built something flying. And with a decent carrying capacity - to throw ammunition, take out the wounded urgently. The idea is very sound, and ours what? They will do any copters, also a necessary thing, but such a flying stool for 400 kg of load capacity did not hurt much. Maybe our gunner in Syria would not have to call fire on himself. Such a tow truck would have called, and flew away.
  8. Engineer
    Engineer 28 March 2016 16: 12
    +2
    MAIShnikov must be connected. About 4 years ago I saw their multicopter at HeliRussia exhibition. Foreigners invited them to take a picture of their helicopter from different angles at the stand, and then they bought one machine altogether. I think enthusiasm coupled with a scientific approach is enough to satisfy all the requests of the Ministry of Defense.
    1. Abbra
      Abbra 28 March 2016 16: 38
      +2
      It is necessary to connect the traffic police, or rather, the Internal Security Service. He took a bribe - a multicopter flies up. He takes the traffic police officer for a scruff and - to Kolyma.
  9. avg-mgn
    avg-mgn 28 March 2016 16: 15
    +1
    Quote: Spade
    For the war.
    For example, fights in the city. All of these tracked and wheeled vehicles are just good for training. In real conditions, their mobility will be as limited as possible.

    Sorry, but read more carefully: "Legs or other supports will require a complex control system to synchronize when driving on rough terrain, and even with variable axial loads (for example, when firing). And what to do with the center of gravity, how to avoid overturning, etc." p ... Movies about the Terminator are not very useful to watch.
    1. Lopatov
      Lopatov 28 March 2016 17: 24
      +1
      Quote: avg-mgn
      Sorry, but read more carefully: "Legs or other supports will require a complex control system to synchronize when moving this over rough terrain, and even with variable axial loads (for example, when firing)


      But at the same time only legs can provide movement on the battlefield.
      So the choice here is not very great: either solve the problem with the legs of the robot, or it will be the legs of a soldier.

      For these two things are not particularly combined:
    2. Albert1988
      Albert1988 28 March 2016 17: 46
      +1
      Quote: avg-mgn
      Legs, or other supports, will require a complex control system to synchronize when moving over rough terrain, and even with variable axial loads (for example, when firing). And what to do with the center of gravity, how to avoid tipping over, etc ...

      I think you can make "spider legs" - the efficiency of such a propeller is high, both in terms of load and in terms of cross-country ability, and everything will be fine with the center of gravity.
  10. dchegrinec
    dchegrinec 28 March 2016 16: 21
    +3
    Why think! Attach a micro-camera to a dragonfly! A gang of such multicopter of any enemy will terrify! wassat
    1. Abbra
      Abbra 28 March 2016 16: 24
      +2
      By the way, a strong thought. Imagine being attacked with a thousand small drones. They do nothing, they just buzz. I would crap one's pants. Suddenly one will do something ???? belay
      1. Albert1988
        Albert1988 28 March 2016 17: 49
        0
        Quote: dchegrinec
        Why think! Attach a micro-camera to a dragonfly! A gang of such multicopter of any enemy will terrify!

        This, in my humble opinion, is ideal for reconnaissance - such a dragonfly with a bug and a transmitter sits somewhere "on the window" of the enemy headquarters ...
        But seriously - then the Americans have long been trying to create such a spy robot the size of a cockroach, while the only problem is the power of its transmitters and battery life.
  11. gridasov
    gridasov 28 March 2016 16: 27
    0
    How many I didn’t say. that the process organized by the work of a propeller, propeller or impeller is ineffective and remains the object of ridicule all the time. I repeat many times that it is only a matter of time before someone "in need" will pay attention to our developments. Apparently the time is right.
    We have to repeat that the work of the propulsion device, namely, the device that converts the energy of the hydro-gas-dynamic flow and transmitting energy for the translational movement of the object, should be organized on new algorithms for the process of flow outflow along the outflow surfaces. Then the process turns directly opposite from the costly one, when more applied energy is required with an increase in the rotation speed, into such a process, when, on the contrary, with an increase in the rotation speed and the speed of the aircraft, and therefore increasing pressure resistance, less energy is required to rotate the engine rotor. Such a reverse process in energy consumption is possible and it is not very difficult to achieve this. The device remains as simple as a screw or propeller, but the process changes the quality to the exact opposite.
    The manufacture of a small-scale aircraft on such a new mover will be a breakthrough moment for understanding the essence of many physical phenomena and processes in a hydro-gas-dynamic medium. And most importantly, it will create the prerequisites for creating a fundamentally new in quality engine process for aviation, underwater and surface vehicles. This is enough for the annotation of the project.
    1. guzik007
      guzik007 28 March 2016 16: 37
      +1
      How much I did not say. that the process is organized by the work of the screw, and blablabla ...
      -------------------------------------------------- -----------------------------
      Gridasov, you don’t have brains for us ... and, you show us with your finger (natural model): =)

      PySy Oh! one grand-eater has already appeared: =))
      1. gridasov
        gridasov 28 March 2016 16: 46
        -2
        say that a smart person is always a lot. And even if I don’t relate myself to those, I will show anyone who needs it. In addition, you are naive that an intelligent person considers money as a criterion for pleasure and happiness.
    2. Cat man null
      Cat man null 28 March 2016 16: 42
      +3
      Oh Gridasov fellow

      Have you been repaired? After your previous performances? After all, only a week passed .. quickly managed, however wink
      1. gridasov
        gridasov 28 March 2016 16: 56
        0
        Who broke me? There are specific reasons that I am on this forum. But you dear do not understand this. But I can say that I am collecting material for work on "stimulating a certain form of reaction of people in a certain direction of the topic." Naturally, I can’t tell you the exact definition of the project theme. For which I am very grateful to you and the rest.
      2. Albert1988
        Albert1988 28 March 2016 17: 53
        +1
        Quote: Cat Man Null
        Oh Gridasov

        Have you been repaired? After your previous performances? After all, only a week passed .. quickly managed, however

        Citizens! Do not swear at comrade "Gridasov" - under this nickname stands the supercomputer of the Faculty of Computational Mathematics and Cybernetics, Moscow State University. M.V. Lomonosov! Local students and graduate students test the elements of artificial intelligence in this way: the experimental program installed on the supercomputer is still able to independently create accounts in social networks and in various forums and conduct a primitive dialogue with other users, but it is unfinished and instead of lengthy meaningful comments on the topic, it inserts absolutely meaningless text, consisting of at least somehow related to the topic of technical terms!
        so don’t minus it strongly - but on the contrary - help our students and graduate students advance on the path to creating full-fledged artificial intelligence! good
        1. gridasov
          gridasov 28 March 2016 18: 32
          0
          And there are no questions. The military needs specific proposals that can be embodied in real devices. Minus, don't minus - they don't care. We need ideas as close as possible to real implementation. Those who "jam my talk" are either, or.
        2. Cat man null
          Cat man null 28 March 2016 18: 49
          0
          Quote: Albert1988
          Do not swear at comrade "Gridasov" - under this nickname stands the supercomputer of the Faculty of Computational Mathematics and Cybernetics, Moscow State University. M.V. Lomonosov

          I have the impression that:

          - the program was not repaired
          - instead of the program they put a regular troll

          Almost like in the video below, just the opposite yes

          1. Albert1988
            Albert1988 28 March 2016 22: 40
            +1
            Quote: Cat Man Null
            I have the impression that:

            - the program was not repaired

            it was not "not repaired" but simply underdeveloped so far, artificial intelligence, you know, a complicated thing)))))
            And yes - while the program can only troll banally))))), but do not worry - when it is completed, it will become more intelligent than all of us and will give the most correct analysis to all questions and the forum will become dull and boring and there will be no more reasons arrange a fun Wed..h, so appreciate this wonderful time !!!))))))
            1. Cat man null
              Cat man null 28 March 2016 22: 45
              +2
              Quote: Albert1988
              And yes - while the program can only tritely troll

              I have the impression that today the troll is not a program, but one of the programmers.

              Quote: Albert1988
              ... when it will be completed ...

              I will not live laughing
              1. Albert1988
                Albert1988 29 March 2016 20: 34
                0
                Quote: Cat Man Null
                I have the impression that today the troll is not a program, but one of the programmers.

                Well, people need to have fun, distract from the gray workdays!
                Quote: Cat Man Null
                I will not live

                Be an optimist! laughing
  12. Abbra
    Abbra 28 March 2016 16: 44
    +4
    Quote: guzik007
    when, on the contrary, with an increase in the rotational speed and speed of the aircraft, which means increasing pressure resistance, less energy is required to rotate the rotor


    Here is another perpetual motion machine ...
    1. gridasov
      gridasov 28 March 2016 16: 51
      0
      Nothing like this ! It is the engine of the "reverse process" of energy conversion. In addition, there is a complex of questions that should not be identified with primitive judgments about perpetual motion machines. For me personally, there are no trifles in such matters, and it is on them that the model and concept are based. In any case, "not necessary and not necessary". Let those who need use it. I want to work with those with whom you can be completely sincere.
      1. Mama_Cholli
        Mama_Cholli 28 March 2016 17: 01
        0
        If this is possible in principle, then this should be addressed. Try to convince experts.
        Scientists still cannot 100% accept the teachings of C. Darwin, just like A. Einstein does not have 100% followers and he has his opponents.

        There is an internal and external combustion engine.
        1. gridasov
          gridasov 28 March 2016 17: 06
          0
          In fact, is it possible to be so stupid (I mean myself) that I don’t understand that after such statements there will be a continuation when I have to justify my reasoning and the project. Therefore, I work on this forum only for certain tasks and reasons.
          1. Mama_Cholli
            Mama_Cholli 28 March 2016 17: 07
            0
            Quote: gridasov
            In fact, is it possible to be so stupid (I mean myself) that I don’t understand that after such statements there will be a continuation when I have to justify my reasoning and the project. Therefore, I work on this forum only for certain tasks and reasons.

            In this case, you act as an intelligent person.
          2. The comment was deleted.
            1. gridasov
              gridasov 28 March 2016 17: 12
              0
              Moreover, I am in a fairly aggressive environment and every word has to be weighed and considered different scenarios. Therefore, you have to stimulate the situation without provoking yourself. Sooner or later, gaming forms of behavior begin to take on very serious aspects. Only amateurs do not take this into account.
              1. Mama_Cholli
                Mama_Cholli 28 March 2016 17: 25
                0
                I would not call all forum users amateurs, just people have knowledge in one or two areas of science / technology, but like any person they can’t cover the whole spectrum, or they have superficial knowledge in many disciplines. This is not scary. You need to understand that it is impossible to convince people of what they do not even have an idea.
                for example:
                In one of the discussions, I quoted a statement by one scientist (theoretical physicist), said to another that the bulk of scientists (fundamental physics) in the United States came from the former soc. camps.
                For this, he was obstructed by the representatives of the flag of the star of David. Their argument was simple, as it could be, if this kind of data is not available on the Internet. smile
                Specialists of the Internet drift did not believe the person (scientist) who emigrated to the USA and said that he knew. Although apparently they did not believe me (because they judge by themselves). To prove the opposite to them is simply ridiculous ... Since, by analogy on the Internet, one can read that it was the USA that defeated Germany ...
                1. gridasov
                  gridasov 28 March 2016 17: 32
                  0
                  I think that you will agree with me that if you had given the numbers and time periods, then the reaction would have been different. You said an abstract phrase and the reaction to it is adequate. At the same time, I will say that sometimes by uttering provocative statements, you can get a useful "seed" that looks like a test for reaction. Generally and personally, I always strive to distinguish people. who, willingly or not, are able to work with information as with raw material, without identifying emotional reactions.
                  1. gridasov
                    gridasov 28 March 2016 17: 38
                    0
                    I will say more. There is a form of communication. When you talk with your opponent, as in a "chess game with yourself." Ie, you are talking to a person, but the essence of his statements and that. what he says consists only in adjusting your forecasting models as a reaction to your words. This exercise is very intuitive. Personally, in general, I learned to first hear and fix an intuitive reaction. and only then reasonable.
                  2. Mama_Cholli
                    Mama_Cholli 28 March 2016 17: 42
                    0
                    Quote: gridasov
                    I think that you will agree with me that if you had given the numbers and time periods, then the reaction would have been different. You said an abstract phrase and the reaction to it is adequate. At the same time, I will say that sometimes by uttering provocative statements, you can get a useful "seed" that looks like a test for reaction. Generally and personally, I always strive to distinguish people. who, willingly or not, are able to work with information as with raw material, without identifying emotional reactions.

                    I did not give figures and a time period, since I do not know them. I just quoted a statement from an emigrant working in a specialty to my cousin (his colleague) who remained to work in a specialty in Belarus. I do not think that interest plays a role if it is precisely those people who were meant to pull the main work. The United States got the minds for free, with no effort to grow them. I suspect that if I said even this phrase, nothing would have changed. So what of this? Rejection of the fact will not affect the result.
                    In your case, my advice to you is - Do not scatter yourself, do not do yourself a disservice. Get busy and believe me, we will all be happy for you if you are right. It will be a reward to all people.
                    1. gridasov
                      gridasov 28 March 2016 17: 55
                      +1
                      Thanks for the advice! Here you are again giving advice based on your opinion. But I'm not you. My goal and task is far from being identified with the stereotype of the goals of a modern person.
                      There is an old rule. To collect a grain of truthful information, you need to pour out many times more and you need to speak so "truthfully" and so honestly and sincerely that: firstly, he himself believed in it, and secondly, the truth must be hidden in the opponent's inability to assess what he receives. People believe words, but you need to believe first of all your ability to evaluate events as real, and not in your own illusions.
                      1. Mama_Cholli
                        Mama_Cholli 28 March 2016 18: 02
                        0
                        Quote: gridasov
                        Thanks for the advice! Here you are again giving advice based on your opinion. But I'm not you. My goal and task is far from being identified with the stereotype of the goals of a modern person.
                        There is an old rule. To collect a grain of truthful information, you need to pour out many times more and you need to speak so "truthfully" and so honestly and sincerely that: firstly, he himself believed in it, and secondly, the truth must be hidden in the opponent's inability to assess what he receives. People believe words, but you need to believe first of all your ability to evaluate events as real, and not in your own illusions.

                        If you are a spy, then you will do just that. In this case, you have already broken off. But my opinion is that scientists do not adhere to this logic of behavior. Real events are facts, and the facts are not yet on your side (or you carefully hide them) and you are not destined to convince them of their existence. smile
                      2. gridasov
                        gridasov 28 March 2016 18: 38
                        +1
                        Thanks for communication!
            2. guzik007
              guzik007 28 March 2016 18: 35
              -1
              Gridasov
              Moreover, I am in a fairly aggressive environment and every word has to be weighed and considered different scenarios. Therefore, you have to stimulate the situation without provoking yourself. Sooner or later, gaming forms of behavior begin to take on very serious aspects. Only amateurs do not take this into account.
              ---------------------------------------------------------------
              ABOUT! I knew! i felt! I directly saw how the patient, seizing the moment, once again crept into the inpatient department of the Kiev city psychiatric hospital and taking advantage of the negligence of doctors. Looking around. Knocking on the clave.
              and around an aggressive environment. able to punish a horse with a dose of chlorpromazine.
    2. The comment was deleted.
  13. guzik007
    guzik007 28 March 2016 18: 30
    -1
    Here is another perpetual motion machine ...
    -------------------------------
    Uh! Comrade Abra Kadabrov, do not attribute to me the flight of thought belonging to the right of Comrade. Gridasov.: =)
  • Cat man null
    Cat man null 28 March 2016 16: 58
    +1
    Quote: gridasov
    stimulation of a certain form of reaction of people in a specific direction

    Type of NLP? wink
    1. gridasov
      gridasov 28 March 2016 17: 02
      +1
      Not at all necessary! Only a particular form of reaction to provocations, mixed in certain proportions with truthful and understandable information, is considered. A system that has a response reaction form. Incidentally, more crude forms of responses were considered. Everything comes from the operational state of the responses.
      1. Cat man null
        Cat man null 28 March 2016 17: 22
        0
        Quote: gridasov
        provocations mixed in certain proportions with truthful and understandable information

        - if tongue-tied language is considered a "provocation", then yes - that was a lot
        - about "truthful and understandable" - in more detail, if possible. Personally, I did not observe such. laughing

        Quote: gridasov
        tougher forms of responses were considered

        - your reactions? Or your opponents? You, as always, are slurred request

        Quote: gridasov
        Everything comes from the operational state of responses

        - "comes from" - a masterpiece .. correct the dictionary - "come" can "from". And nothing else, in this context, anyway

        Let’s talk about fractals, is it better?
        1. gridasov
          gridasov 28 March 2016 17: 25
          +1
          The process continues!
          1. Corsair
            Corsair 28 March 2016 18: 15
            0
            Quote: gridasov
            The process continues!

            laughing that is, speaking in an unscientific language - you are trolling people on the forum, causing certain reactions, while trying to determine the reaction in advance by your calculated or previously seen observations.
            Please tell me whether you are a theoretical scientist or a practitioner, and which sciences exactly, because I have your judgments about increasing one type of energy while constantly decreasing another cause cognitive dissonance in the light of my knowledge of physics.
            After all, will it start spinning at some stage?
            My advice to you - if you are a real scientist or inventor - act, and do not do scientific trolling of your opponents, complaining about their lack of mind and linear thinking.
      2. guzik007
        guzik007 28 March 2016 19: 56
        0
        mixed reactions to provocations
        ------------------------------------------
        PeremeshaNNNNYE - Peremeshmena INNNNNNYE
  • sa-ag
    sa-ag 28 March 2016 17: 04
    +2
    up to 30 kg at minus 30 and an hour and a half, never an electric trainer, it means a buzzer like "Bee", no stealth
    1. amirbek
      amirbek 29 March 2016 14: 03
      0
      if you want to soar silently ... teach the device to levitate using the effect of strip structures laughing
  • Bayun
    Bayun 28 March 2016 18: 04
    +1
    Some are lucky ...

    As an option: a manned drone, for example, an attack aircraft or a turntable beyond the "horizon". You start the power supply unit, you get information, you work it out on goals. The manned vehicle has a minimum time in the "hot" zone.

    Delivery of multicopters at night on ... a mother airship (noiselessness, charging station and repeater). The drones scattered around the radius, throwing information on the airship, which is more convenient to contact the Center from a higher height and better power-to-weight ratio. By the way, such a toy can be thrown off even from the "strategist". At a given height, the airship inflated, entered the area, released drones ...

    I suppose here is the best organizational chart for the result: a fusion of youth and experience. Several "bison" (possibly pensioners) from specialized military institutions, and to them "pioneers" - enthusiasts who sense the modern. IMPORTANT! At the first stages, keep the financiers, economists, managers away from the cannon shot. Step1 - TECHNOLOGY, step2 - money.
    1. amirbek
      amirbek 29 March 2016 15: 23
      0
      Quote: Bayun
      on the ... airship uterus

      the airship is an easy target ... it’s better to launch the transformer on approach and it crumbles and how the tornado captures the target ... let the drones themselves process the whole information and give the central one further ...
      By the way, in a disposable drone you can press in no current explosives ... it all depends on what you want to do with the living or non-living force of the enemy ... scare or euthanize it
      ---
      just imagine sitting in a trench and here you have manna from heaven ... from the beginning one flew off the speaker and there the Werther laughs, then the other threw off a ball of grass smell .. you got up already zombies do not care for you .. and let's wet your stranger .. . never mind!
  • Former battalion commander
    Former battalion commander 28 March 2016 18: 35
    +1
    Strange ... The Ministry of Defense DOES NOT MAKE REQUIREMENTS for domestic equipment! Again, the same usual rake ... Do it, flies. They will begin to manufacture (God forbid, also mass-produced) and then they will climb ... an engine from Germany, their US processor, power transistors and those from Taiwan, and there is only a Russian frame and a propeller, even screws from Poland ... Then they will start to redo and ... as soon as EVERYTHING BECOMES Russian, this device will stop flying ... And they will cut and saw and ask and ask for money, each time promising "it will fly in two weeks" ... We know they passed, they themselves are ...
  • The comment was deleted.
  • ars_pro
    ars_pro 28 March 2016 19: 06
    +1
    Interesting concept caught
  • amirbek
    amirbek 29 March 2016 07: 39
    +1
    Defense Ministry is looking for developers who are able to create highly mobile multikopter

    Want to create such an apparatus - here is a SAMPLE for you gentlemen developers - if you reveal the secret of maneuverability and know how to grow the expected technology on a machine, then in 5-10 years we will fly in cars.
    1. Corsair
      Corsair 29 March 2016 10: 29
      0
      Quote: Amirbek
      If you want to create such a device - here SAMPLE gentlemen are the developers - if you reveal the secret of maneuverability and know how to grow the expected technology on a machine - then in 5-10 years we will fly on cars.

      what Mother is still far from mother, neither materials nor engines for full-fledged insect-like aircraft have yet been developed, otherwise they would have long flown on dragonflies laughing
      1. amirbek
        amirbek 29 March 2016 12: 19
        0
        Quote: Corsair
        otherwise we’d fly on a dragonfly long ago

        in vain you underestimate locusts and "dragonflies" ... very soon they will start flying along all your power lines and monitor all your tricks, and they will also sit on wires - recharging instead of swallows smile
        1. gridasov
          gridasov 29 March 2016 12: 37
          0
          Locust flight relies on a short-pulse effect. Therefore, in special cases of application, you can undoubtedly use it, but for long flights it is not effective for one important reason. I think so. what do you know that bees, birds of the same locust do not use the translational trajectories of the wing. These movements are conical on the support and the bend of the wing profile changes the shape and direction of the distribution of air flow. In general, this is elementary. But!!! With such a process, it is not possible to use the potential energy of either air or water. This is the whole essence of our development. From here we do not have a single similar development from the past. Except of course Schauberger. But he also has a fundamental flaw. I am sure that he would solve this problem. It was a matter of time.
          1. amirbek
            amirbek 29 March 2016 14: 08
            +1
            Quote: gridasov
            Locust flight relies on short pulse action

            You correctly noticed! Impulse effect! Stung and forgot! and you don’t have to fly far!
            1. gridasov
              gridasov 29 March 2016 14: 19
              0
              Frankly, I do not understand the way of thinking of modern designers of the same hovercraft. This also applies to the screen effect and, in general, all means of transportation both in air and in water. So, if you supply air with a supercharger parallel to the Earth’s surface, then using cavity structures, but modified under control, you can increase the carrying capacity by orders of magnitude. And the amount of air needed to control such a pillow is much less. I experimented on sheet A4 and lifted a kilogram weight with a simple hairdryer. The effect is amazing. And the cavities themselves are represented by such elements of rigidity. Therefore, I don’t understand why such elements are not used on submarines. They dramatically improve the possibility of non-formation of cavitating water bubbles.
    2. gridasov
      gridasov 29 March 2016 10: 45
      0
      It can already be stated that since the idea of ​​creating ultra-small aviation appeared, there is practically nothing new at the basis of the fundamental foundations of movement. Yes, some scale values ​​are changing, some forms are changing. The principle of motion, which is based on the screw, does not change. Not even the principle of movement of the entire object, but the principles of flow on the rotor blades. Therefore, I’m betting that no one will come up with anything new in a year or two. And even if they come nearer, then the calculation cannot be carried out on the principles of algebraic solutions. Therefore, correctly you say that in nature there are no calculations. In nature, processes based on algorithms of successive transformations of energy interactions are carried out. And energy consists in combining the polarized states of matter. And only at the boundary of such transformations does either absorption or extraction of excess energy occur, which is also converted. Therefore, mathematical methods of calculation, based on binary logic, the search for positive and negative solutions are completely unsuitable.
      1. amirbek
        amirbek 29 March 2016 12: 08
        0
        Quote: gridasov
        Therefore, mathematical methods of calculation, based on binary logic, the search for positive and negative solutions are completely unsuitable

        - in this case, let them try to revive the development of John Keely (this is easier) ... the truth is, there will not have to spend the extracted fuel and will not even need solar energy (the Masons and Langonyers do not like it) laughing
        1. gridasov
          gridasov 29 March 2016 12: 28
          0
          I want to note to you that we have not invented or discovered a "new miracle" We do not refute any of the known laws of physics and do not put it in contradiction. We divided the processes into small stages in the analysis and created simply new algorithms for their new organization. Ie created, in any case tried to create a sequence of only positive extremes. That is why I very often talk about analysis and its new form of application. This allows us to consider first the physical process, and only then the device fulfilling the goal and the set task. Therefore, we were able to see the limits of the possibility of using a propeller and a propeller, and therefore all types of turbines, which basically use the principle of the propeller.
          1. Cat man null
            Cat man null 29 March 2016 13: 19
            -1
            Quote: gridasov
            We ... created, at least tried to create sequence of only positive extremes

            What, can you draw a schedule? The one that "created" .. sorry, "tried to create"?

            Gridasov, your ignorance touches .. sometimes laughing
            1. gridasov
              gridasov 29 March 2016 13: 24
              0
              I will give you pleasure. Continue to be touched.
              1. Cat man null
                Cat man null 29 March 2016 13: 29
                -1
                Quote: gridasov
                I will give you pleasure

                You personally are not interested in me ..

                Quote: gridasov
                We ... created, in any case, tried to create a sequence of only positive extremes

                But I would love to look at the graph of the "sequence" created by you.
                1. gridasov
                  gridasov 29 March 2016 13: 37
                  -1
                  How would you more clearly express it, but you can only experiment. Dialogue is impossible. The main thing is no prerequisites for normal communication. Yes ! Yes, I understand that illiterate and ill-mannered is appealing to worthy specialists. It's all me. Then why ask such clever questions.
                  But try to arrange the prime numbers not in a row, but in a spatial sphere. Then you will see everything. Charts, and even more so linear. This is for children of the first class. In one line you can put only two parameters. And try a few.
                  1. Cat man null
                    Cat man null 29 March 2016 13: 49
                    -1
                    Quote: gridasov
                    Pleading worthy specialists

                    - on your knees, practically .. rzhunimagu already laughing

                    Quote: gridasov
                    why ask such clever questions

                    - the question is elementary. Schedule - draw, and put it here. Laugh together lol

                    Quote: gridasov
                    Charts, let alone linear. This is for first-class children.

                    - just about .. so do it now ..

                    Quote: gridasov
                    But try to expand the prime numbers not in a row, but in the spatial sphere

                    - this is something new .. in science request
                    - "expanding prime numbers ... in a row" is good, by the way wink

                    Quote: gridasov
                    no prerequisites for normal communication

                    - of course not. Since you are driving a blizzard with a "smart" look, wildly anti-scientific ..

                    Something like that.
                    1. gridasov
                      gridasov 29 March 2016 13: 54
                      0
                      Sorry ! Sorry ! Sorry! I'm leaving! I'm leaving! I'm leaving!
                      1. Cat man null
                        Cat man null 29 March 2016 13: 56
                        0
                        Quote: gridasov
                        I'm leaving! I'm leaving! I'm leaving!

                        What about the schedule? request

                        Well, here .. as always sad
          2. amirbek
            amirbek 29 March 2016 14: 24
            -1
            Quote: gridasov
            I would like to note that we have not invented and discovered a "new miracle"

            invented .. even as invented .. but! topic is closed, canned away.
            energy from sound vibrations. and you know the sound can be increased in a cycle to reduce. why it’s not customary to say how installations exploded from these cycles. and how vibrations affect gravity and everything else. or did someone understand that it’s free current or is there another scary weapon?
            1. gridasov
              gridasov 29 March 2016 15: 12
              0
              Thanks ! But I regard these things as just knowledge and the ability to compare, evaluate and create the most complete analysis of processes. And you are right that wave processes in the space of the medium cannot be identified with lines, planes. These are always the same complex forms. Wave processes are always conical. But even when the wave runs and rolls back "one and a half", in the end it still forms conical forms of interaction. In any case, these are sequential algorithms for the stages of transformation of some processes into others. And at each such stage, the direction of their transformations can change both the direction and dimension of interaction and potential. By the way, Keely is not that hard to understand. The principles are the same with natural and with Searl and with Schauberger. And with the same Lindskalnish (if I correctly named his name) Therefore, considering our turbine within the framework of an energy generator, we can talk about two polar effects. These are the possibilities of increasing and strengthening anti-gravitational processes and, on the contrary, their gravitational amplification.
              1. gridasov
                gridasov 29 March 2016 15: 24
                0
                I would also like to note that who does not understand the essence of such issues. he simply is not able to understand them. You can scream at the top of your lungs and reveal secrets, but they will not be understood. The reason lies in the systemic guidelines of the knowledge on which the person was brought up. They are simply not capable of breaking away from them, but taking as the basis for new development. I once spoke with a certain level of people who, by the nature of their activities, are associated with this. So while I was talking with them, they seemed to understand everything and constantly asked, but isn’t that all right now? But when they parted, everything was instantly forgotten. Therefore, you need to live on this topic of issues. My worldview is already different. And even if someone rests too much, then I look at it condescendingly and calmly as the individual ability of this person to see the situation.
              2. amirbek
                amirbek 29 March 2016 15: 44
                0
                evaluate and create the most complete process analysis
                and so, returning to the goldfish, I had the experience of observing an unpredictable flight (by the way, our children have such a game to bring to the thread and run "inspires", try it) ... to the top ... from the beginning I thought a glitch ... I began to pester others to scare ... someone took off lazily, someone slept in a rose and did not react ... and one took off slowly and then with all the foolishness in general the other side tore. in general, there is something in them ... something anti-gravitational ... well, the usual wing of this insect cannot tear space ... in short, you need to start researching and invent something
                1. Cat man null
                  Cat man null 29 March 2016 15: 57
                  -1
                  Quote: Amirbek
                  going back to gold

                  Are you talking about bronze, what is in the photo? Which beetle?

                  Quote: Amirbek
                  there is something in them ... something anti-gravity ...

                  Unfortunately no..

                  Quote: Amirbek
                  can't the ordinary wing of this insect tear space

                  There was a story that a poster hung in NASA:

                  By all laws of nature, the chafer cannot fly
                  But the May bug does not know this, and flies just because..


                  PS: How bronze flies - I know, I used to catch them once .. such a funny sport, I admit yes
                  1. amirbek
                    amirbek 30 March 2016 06: 30
                    -1
                    Quote: Cat Man Null
                    Unfortunately no..

                    probably where you live there is little solar energy to maneuver fellow
                    Quote: Cat Man Null
                    There was a story that a poster hung in NASA:

                    Ohh .. would you see how many of these bronzes or goldfish or sorrows (not important) are carved in stone in Egypt lol
                  2. amirbek
                    amirbek 30 March 2016 06: 51
                    -1
                    Quote: Cat Man Null
                    PS: How bronze flies - I know, I used to catch them once .. such a funny sport, I admit

                    there is one more secret game, called "I am Batman" take a bronze, fasten it on your back between the wings (current in clear and sunny weather), run up and if the beetle buzzes, you jump ... maybe you (having_ changed your mind) will leverage fellow