Military Review

Trial operation of diesel-electric submarines "Lada" will end this year.

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The trial operation of the St. Petersburg submarine (677 Lada project) will be completed by the end of 2016, reports Look with reference to the United Shipbuilding Corporation.




"The pilot operation of the head diesel-electric submarines of the Lada project is scheduled for completion before the end of 2016," the release says.

It is noted that "the decision to build the fourth in a series of diesel-electric submarine project Lada" will be made in accordance with the new GWP (state armaments program), which is currently being formed. "

The newspaper reminds that St. Petersburg is in trial operation with 2010. The Admiralty Shipyards are building the 2 and 3 submarines of this series.

In addition, the corporation reported that a preliminary sketch of the submarine of the 2 generation (the Husky project) will be created during 5 years.

“The development of the draft design of a multi-purpose submarine was given about two years. Within its framework, the appearance of a promising submarine will be shaped, ”the press service told.

They noted that the creation of "a fully titanium case is not planned."

“However, in the design of the submarine there are always elements made of titanium. The type of reactor of this submarine will be known after the development of the ship’s appearance has been completed, ”the corporation said.

“As for the size of the future ship, the current trend in shipbuilding, including underwater, is to strive to reduce the ship’s displacement while maintaining the specified tactical and technical characteristics. Whether this will be realized will be shown by the approved appearance of the promising submarine, ”the press service added.
Photos used:
http://bastion-opk.ru
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  1. NAV-STAR
    NAV-STAR 28 March 2016 15: 02
    +6
    Lada, Ash and Borey turned out to be workhorses for designers and constructors who, in turn, will embody their knowledge on a promising Husky, let's hope that the project is not a mistake !!!
    1. lelikas
      lelikas 28 March 2016 15: 32
      +5
      Quote: NAV-STAR
      Lada, Ash and Borey turned out to be workhorses for designers and constructors who, in turn, will embody their knowledge on a promising Husky, let's hope that the project is not a mistake !!!

      Lada came out more like a pony than a workhorse, but in a series and did not go.
      1. Ride78
        Ride78 28 March 2016 15: 47
        +4
        I can not understand. All the same, Lada is better than Varshavyanka - 10 missiles + torpedoes. Let her be without Vneu already.
        1. Berber
          Berber 28 March 2016 16: 48
          0
          10 missiles - not enough, and the range of missiles is narrow. I think they want to expand.
        2. lelikas
          lelikas 28 March 2016 17: 14
          0
          Quote: Ride78
          10 missiles + torpedoes. Let her be without Vneu already.

          There are no rockets there.
        3. YARUSSIAN39
          YARUSSIAN39 28 March 2016 22: 10
          0
          So something is wrong there, since the series did not go
      2. Boa kaa
        Boa kaa 28 March 2016 15: 49
        +5
        Quote: lelikas
        Lada came out more like a pony than a workhorse

        In this regard, I want to note:
        if the VNEU was not "sat too long" on the original idea of ​​direct generation of electricity from a chemical reaction, then the Unicorn would have turned out! The Deutschers and K * would wipe themselves off and whine quietly in the corner ...
        And so, what does :::::: it remains to state:
        "Horses die from work,
        Well, I'm an iron pony! " request
      3. gispanec
        gispanec 28 March 2016 15: 52
        +3
        Quote: lelikas

        Lada came out more like a pony than a workhorse

        and Ash? .... the series seems to have gone, but there will be nothing besides Severodvinsk and will not be there until 18 ..... Kazan was promised to surrender in 18 ..... but promising does not mean getting married. .... how many promises we have heard ..... and how many times everything has shifted ...
        1. lelikas
          lelikas 28 March 2016 16: 14
          +1
          Quote: gispanec
          and Ash? ..

          And here, clever experts, they took and cut the series. Type too expensive and all that. At the same time, none of them considered what it would cost to develop, build, base cheaper and new boats, retrain crews and other goodies.
          The old scheme, when the number of projects went through all reasonable limits, does not let go.
          One hope - suddenly they will create something like "Lyra" - then it's not in vain.
        2. Berber
          Berber 28 March 2016 16: 53
          0
          Ash and Lada are two types of submarines. They probably want to do something in the middle. Cheaper than Ash and more efficient Lada. It’s like with Armata - one universal platform.
        3. skiff-xnumx
          skiff-xnumx 28 March 2016 17: 23
          0
          And before that they will not surrender anything to Severodvinsk. Even if they are ready. Neither ash nor borea should be expected before the beginning of the 18th year. There is one trick. Boats are being built in workshop 50 and 55, which have one launch complex through the bulk pool. And in it, due to the lack of an open slipway on the Sevmash, Nakhimov now stands.
          1. skiff-xnumx
            skiff-xnumx 28 March 2016 17: 28
            0
            Photo not inserted. In the background are 50 workshops. Right 55 cradle of sharks
    2. xtur
      xtur 28 March 2016 16: 55
      +1
      > The reactor type of this nuclear submarine will be known after the completion of the design of the ship's appearance

      only I saw in this phrase a hint of liquid metal reactors?
      1. Former battalion commander
        Former battalion commander 28 March 2016 18: 54
        0
        At least there are only two options ... So both of them are being considered ... But I think the one that will cost cheaper will prevail ...
        1. xtur
          xtur 28 March 2016 23: 15
          0
          > So both are considered

          it’s just that, since both are being worked out, it means that BN reactors are already so developed now that they can already be seriously considered as a standard solution, without fear of known problems with their operation.

          > But I think the one that will cost less will prevail ...

          and here it is already very difficult to compare, there are too many differences, starting with differences in the fuel cycle, ending with saving space and weight, and ultimately VI, due to the greater compactness of such reactors.

          That is, thanks to BN reactors with the same dimensions, the submarine can carry more weapons. To date, only the Russian Federation can prepare these reactors, this is a real technological advantage that cannot be quickly eliminated - it takes almost as much time to destroy it as the submarines themselves serve.

          And thanks to such a technological advantage, the Russian Federation can seriously save in the price of submarines. And in this case, it is from the submarine that the mass turnaround of the industry of the Russian Federation for the mass construction and operation of reactors with BN will begin.

          With such different alternatives, the issue of choice is not very simple, since even the risks associated with the development of a new technology are not always predictable, and the fleet may again find itself in a situation in which it was with Ladas - the project is good for everyone except one - the industry for 10 years delayed its development.
    3. NEXUS
      NEXUS 28 March 2016 18: 49
      +2
      Quote: NAV-STAR
      Lada, Ash and Borey turned out to be workhorses for designers and designers,

      Lada has not yet been brought to mind and there is only one, the head submarine "Saint Petersburg", as well as Yasen-Severodvinsk. There is no series in either case yet. Although there is already talk about the submarine of the project "Kalina" and "Husky" ...
      Lada and Yaseni-M are now desperately needed for us. Moreover, the submarines of the Lada project (and in the future Kalina) need no less than Varshavyanka, which they are preparing to replace.
  2. Magic archer
    Magic archer 28 March 2016 15: 04
    +1
    The news is good! I hope we’ll solve the problem with VNEU, but then we are lagging behind. They are already in the series for the probable enemy
    1. hartlend
      hartlend 28 March 2016 15: 13
      +12
      Maybe for some good news, I didn’t understand anything. How can a boat be in trial operation since 2010? What is the relationship between diesel frets and atomic Husky? What is common between them. There was a topic about installing an air-independent power plant, but was blown away somewhere.
      1. dauria
        dauria 28 March 2016 19: 24
        0
        What is the relationship between diesel frets and atomic Husky? What is common between them. There was a topic about installing an air-independent power plant, but was blown away somewhere.


        I was blown away because, probably, that "Lyra" was remembered. By the way, the size will be "common between them", probably. And VNU - let the Germans and the Swedes figure out how to deceive physics and, carrying an oxidizer with them, find chemical sources with the energy of a nuclear reaction.
    2. Finntroll
      Finntroll 28 March 2016 18: 07
      0
      I beg you, the only financial difficulty in this country is people like Chubais and Serdyukov. And the news is straight forward
  3. Berserks
    Berserks 28 March 2016 15: 09
    +2
    Well, it’s good that, despite financial difficulties, they don’t save on the army.
    A people who do not want to feed their army will feed someone else's!
    1. kepmor
      kepmor 28 March 2016 15: 26
      0
      Yes, we, the people, have been feeding the "enemy army" for 25 years - deputies, officials, judges, prosecutors, cop
      ov and fesbeshnikov! And also oligarchs, friends of Putin with relatives and servants!
      I really don’t know what makes you so happy ?!
      Maybe that submarine is six years in trial operation?
      Or the fact that our defense industry still cannot launch domestic VNEU into mass production ?!
      1. Berber
        Berber 28 March 2016 16: 54
        +1
        This is of course regrettable, but without them there is no state.
  4. demiurg
    demiurg 28 March 2016 15: 10
    +4
    Nowhere can I find articles about a clear comparison of lithium-ion batteries and VNEU. I understand that our fuel will seem to be like ordinary diesel fuel, but anyway, I would like to read it.
    And after the question, really shake the current batteries out of the pl and insert lithium-ion? If real, there will be a notable modernization. And then here next to my work is Liotech bankrupt, he would have found work.
    1. Genry
      Genry 28 March 2016 15: 40
      +1
      Quote: demiurg
      I can not find articles about a clear comparison of lithium-ion batteries and VNEU.

      Do you want to compare warm and soft?
      VNEU is a source of energy (electrical, mechanical), and the battery is its keeper.
      Quote: demiurg
      really shake current batteries out of the pl and insert lithium-ion?

      Lithium-ion is not suitable due to a lack of raw materials in Russia (all in China).
      There is already time to pray for some graphene.
      1. Berber
        Berber 28 March 2016 16: 59
        0
        On a few submarines, probably would have scraped.
    2. Genry
      Genry 28 March 2016 15: 40
      0
      Quote: demiurg
      I can not find articles about a clear comparison of lithium-ion batteries and VNEU.

      Do you want to compare warm and soft?
      VNEU is a source of energy (electrical, mechanical), and the battery is its keeper.
      Quote: demiurg
      really shake current batteries out of the pl and insert lithium-ion?

      Lithium-ion is not suitable due to a lack of raw materials in Russia (all in China).
      There is already time to pray for some graphene.
    3. Berber
      Berber 28 March 2016 16: 57
      0
      With lithium-ion, not everything is simple. There you need electronic load management. Otherwise there will be fires.
  5. Amurets
    Amurets 28 March 2016 15: 31
    +1
    And they are not comparable. This is a quote from the engine magazine about VNEU. AKB are needed with the usual scheme of the power plant submarines

    "We are talking about the conversion of chemical energy directly into electrical energy without the process of combustion or mechanical movement, that is, generating electricity in a noiseless way. Such electrochemical generators are installed on the German submarines of Project 212, the entry into operation of the head of which is scheduled for 2003. In fact, this return is purely electric submarine, but with new batteries. It will be able to move in a submerged position at a speed of 3 knots for 20 days and during this time to pass 1440 miles. To a certain extent, this is already the quality of a nuclear submarine. But it should immediately make a clarification that speaks not in favor the last: a nuclear power plant currently cannot provide the same stealth as a purely electric one. Similar submarines are going to be built by other countries, for example, Russia, Italy, possibly Sweden. Moreover, Britain and France are planning to return to the construction of conventional submarines. for the national Navy, so how their application in a number of regions and cases is more preferable than nuclear ones by the criterion of efficiency / cost.
    1. ARS56
      ARS56 28 March 2016 15: 56
      0
      If the submarine speed at VNEU is 3 knots, then the typical submarine speed is 30 knots.
      So for now, VNEU is more likely for unmanned submarines than for ordinary ones.
      1. VP
        VP 28 March 2016 16: 13
        +5
        At 30 knots, everyone knows about the layout of the boat, from penguins in Antarctica to polar bears in the Arctic.
    2. hartlend
      hartlend 28 March 2016 15: 57
      0
      At a cruising speed of 3 knots, you won’t do it. In real conditions, you will have to switch to forced modes and then autonomy and mileage will have to be divided into two.
    3. Genry
      Genry 28 March 2016 16: 06
      +1
      Quote: Amurets
      will be able to move in underwater position with a speed of 3 knots for 20 days and during this time pass 1440 miles.

      The range of such a VNEU boat is very small. Sea currents are faster. Here the main thing is the ability to hide for an ambush or after evasion. Protection of fixed objects and bases is possible. For active hunting and escort is unsuitable.
      A nuclear submarine can be made without noisy turbines, replacing them with "Stirling" and get almost unlimited range and good dynamism.
    4. Boa kaa
      Boa kaa 28 March 2016 16: 29
      +7
      Quote: Amurets
      In fact, this is the return of a purely electric submarine, but with new batteries. She will be able to move in underwater position at a speed of 3 knots for 20 days and during this time pass 1440 miles.

      1. About batteries (AB).
      Lithium ionic acid (LIAB) was not safe because had a disgusting property at the most inopportune moment (with an increase in load) to ignite. (From this amerskie liners "smoke"). Now this problem has been solved. The capacity of LIAB is several times higher than silver, not to mention lead-zinc.
      2. VNEU.
      If the power is sufficient, then (in addition to movement) it can submerge LIAB in the underwater position.
      3. This fundamentally changes the tactics of using NAPL.
      Patrolling (in the veil, at the turn, in the RBD, ROP) - 3-4 knots are enough.
      To get closer with the goal - jump on LIAB (up to 20 knots underwater passage). The same maneuver of evasion (post-salvo maneuvering) and again through VNEU to beat LIAB to the desired density.
      4. Everywhere it is shining that 677 will be "missile submarines", i.e. You will need to run sharply only after shooting with Calibers / Onyxes, or whatever else will be put there. And this simplifies (to a certain extent) the task of ensuring secrecy.
      5. On the range of underwater travel under LIAB.
      I have repeatedly met the number: capacity - 2500 A / h. And this is already serious, even if VNEU barks. But again, apparently only at economy speed - 2-3 knots. If "twitches", then, of course, there will not be even 1400 miles.
      6. About days under water.
      It is entirely determined by the ability of CDS and the regeneration reserve for the absorption of carbon dioxide. VNEU here can only be considered as an energy source for the oxygen station ... and replenishment of the LIAB energy reserve.
      Yours faithfully, hi
      1. gas113
        gas113 28 March 2016 17: 03
        0
        Explained clearly
  6. nazar_0753
    nazar_0753 28 March 2016 15: 49
    0
    Hurry VNEU in a series. The possibility of low-noise scuba diving over long distances looks very tempting. soldier
  7. demiurg
    demiurg 28 March 2016 16: 09
    +1
    Quote: ARS56
    If the submarine speed at VNEU is 3 knots, then the typical submarine speed is 30 knots.
    So for now, VNEU is more likely for unmanned submarines than for ordinary ones.

    At 30 nodes, the nuclear-powered boat will rattle like a frying pan in the garbage chute. The submarine, regardless of the type of drive you need to go with a low-noise stroke of 5-7 bonds 150-200 miles to stealthly attack and then topple.
    Quote: Genry
    Quote: demiurg
    I can not find articles about a clear comparison of lithium-ion batteries and VNEU.

    Do you want to compare warm and soft?
    VNEU is a source of energy (electrical, mechanical), and the battery is its keeper.
    Quote: demiurg
    really shake current batteries out of the pl and insert lithium-ion?

    Lithium-ion is not suitable due to a lack of raw materials in Russia (all in China).
    There is already time to pray for some graphene.

    I understand the difference between the battery and the drive, the question is different, how many kilograms of weight is needed so that the submarine can go 1 km under water at a speed of 5 km / h. The speeds are relative, the question is different, it is probably more profitable to drag a battery that can be charged by going under the RPD and stay in position, but you can’t download oxygen for VNEU in the sea at 4-5 points of excitement. And not at any base it is.
    I didn’t know about lithium, is that all mobile phones with Chinese batteries?
    1. Boa kaa
      Boa kaa 28 March 2016 16: 46
      +1
      Quote: demiurg
      it’s probably more profitable to drag a battery that can be charged by going under the RPD and stay in position, but you can’t download the waves for VNEU in the sea with 4-5 excitement points.

      1. In a combat situation, it is very risky to go under the RPD: the mine - radar is noticeable; Av-PLO gas analyzers will immediately take a trace.
      So, it’s better to quietly beat the battery under water ...
      2. Oxygen is taken not from atmospheric air, but either from a cryogenic plant (liquefied - cylinders outside a durable case, or from a chemically bound state (the so-called "fuel cells" - aluminum peroxides).
  8. demiurg
    demiurg 28 March 2016 16: 49
    0
    Quote: BoA KAA
    Quote: Amurets
    In fact, this is the return of a purely electric submarine, but with new batteries. She will be able to move in underwater position at a speed of 3 knots for 20 days and during this time pass 1440 miles.

    1. About batteries (AB).
    Lithium ionic acid (LIAB) was not safe because had a disgusting property at the most inopportune moment (with an increase in load) to ignite. (From this amerskie liners "smoke"). Now this problem has been solved. The capacity of LIAB is several times higher than silver, not to mention lead-zinc.
    2. VNEU.
    If the power is sufficient, then (in addition to movement) it can submerge LIAB in the underwater position.
    3. This fundamentally changes the tactics of using NAPL.
    Patrolling (in the veil, at the turn, in the RBD, ROP) - 3-4 knots are enough.
    To get closer with the goal - jump on LIAB (up to 20 knots underwater passage). The same maneuver of evasion (post-salvo maneuvering) and again through VNEU to beat LIAB to the desired density.
    4. Everywhere it is shining that 677 will be "missile submarines", i.e. You will need to run sharply only after shooting with Calibers / Onyxes, or whatever else will be put there. And this simplifies (to a certain extent) the task of ensuring secrecy.
    5. On the range of underwater travel under LIAB.
    I have repeatedly met the number: capacity - 2500 A / h. And this is already serious, even if VNEU barks. But again, apparently only at economy speed - 2-3 knots. If "twitches", then, of course, there will not be even 1400 miles.
    6. About days under water.
    It is entirely determined by the ability of CDS and the regeneration reserve for the absorption of carbon dioxide. VNEU here can only be considered as an energy source for the oxygen station ... and replenishment of the LIAB energy reserve.
    Yours faithfully, hi

    Or maybe as an additional current source of batteries? After all, the battery allows maximum speed, and not 3-4 nodes. The stirling engine, oxygen for it, fuel (if not native diesel fuel) weigh pretty much.
    1. Amurets
      Amurets 28 March 2016 17: 15
      0
      Quote: demiurg

      Or maybe as an additional current source of batteries? After all, the battery allows maximum speed, and not 3-4 nodes. The stirling engine, oxygen for it, fuel (if not native diesel fuel) weigh pretty much.

      When I was looking for materials on water-activated batteries, I found this guide, I didn’t come across any fresh ones. There are answers to many questions.
      reference book edited by Korovin.N.V. Skundin.AM Chemical sources of current. Reference book 2003.
  9. demiurg
    demiurg 28 March 2016 17: 11
    0
    Quote: BoA KAA
    Quote: demiurg
    it’s probably more profitable to drag a battery that can be charged by going under the RPD and stay in position, but you can’t download the waves for VNEU in the sea with 4-5 excitement points.

    1. In a combat situation, it is very risky to go under the RPD: the mine - radar is noticeable; Av-PLO gas analyzers will immediately take a trace.
    So, it’s better to quietly beat the battery under water ...
    2. Oxygen is taken not from atmospheric air, but either from a cryogenic plant (liquefied - cylinders outside a durable case, or from a chemically bound state (the so-called "fuel cells" - aluminum peroxides).


    To make exhaust clean I think is not a problem. In the Great Patriotic War, partisans sprinkled kilometers of railroad tracks in order to mock sapper dogs.
    Snorkel from some sort of plastic, I think, too. Optics remains modern, well, here I do not know.
    The length of Warsaw is about 70 meters. And the insert under the stirling engine is 10 meters. This is how many batteries you can push there.
  10. afrikanez
    afrikanez 29 March 2016 00: 12
    0
    I really want to see, well, at least the Husky project. good
  11. Zomanus
    Zomanus 29 March 2016 06: 03
    0
    There will probably be vertical mines under Caliber and Yakhont, so that torpedo tubes do not occupy.